um one general meeting item and then we can go to the full regular meeting
docket. Um
it's a preliminary item board um case 26125.
We reviewed it more closely and we determined did not need a variance. So
wanted you to note this if you agree. This was a fence case. It came to us,
but they found or there's another gap in the zoning code where
there's no sideyard or front yard requirement for a fence or for anything
in the R8 zoning district. And so the sixoot fence is allowed by right. And so
I guess [snorts] for now the applicant benefits from this gap. We should fix
this gap in the future. But so I guess this wanted to note this one and with
your concurrence we'll draft a one-page memo to the zoning administrator
indicating that there's no variance needed. So guess we can discuss or if
you agree then we can I guess vote. I I do concur with the staff's opinion uh
that this application uh does not require uh a variance.
» I agree.
» Can we get agreement across the board, please?
» Agreed. >> Thank you.
» Thank you. >> Okay. I think that's only one and we
have a footway thing, but we need more information to get that on your radar.
So, we'll come back to that one. Um, now we can start the regular docket or
the zoning docket. Okay. Good afternoon and welcome to the July 21st, 2026 1pm
docket for the board of municipal and zoning appeals. My name is Justin
Williams.
Name the whole script. My name is Justin Williams and I'm the interim executive
director of the BMZA. The board members here this afternoon from left to right
are Kate Howard, Liz Cornish, Leland Shelton who's the chair, Ryan Hargrave,
and Victor Clark. We ask everyone in the room please turn off their cell phones
and then if you need to speak probably with another person, please do that in
the lobby or hallway. Um, the reason for that is that we have a court reporter
recording all the audio that's happening in the room and then also someone from
Charm TV is recording video of the proceedings and so the microphones in
the room will pick up your conversations if you're having them. So again, please
if you need to have a private conversation, we ask you do that in the
hallway. Um, we will be calling the cases generally in the order. They're in
the docket. Um, if you've not done so already, we ask anybody planning to
speak on behalf in support or opposition for a case, please sign in in front of
uh Mr. Walker and the desk here. Again, we want everyone who's planning to
speak, including attorneys, applicants, those in favor, those opposed, please
sign in. Um, when your case is called, the applicant will go first. We ask
applicant come to the table uh uh introduce yourself, spell your name
for the court reporter and take an oath before giving testimony. Um the board
will probably vote on your appeal today, but that vote is not final. By law, we
must prepare a written document called a resolution which requires drafting and
review. This process takes several weeks. We will send it to you by email
and if you're the appellant, you'll be able to access it through. We ask that
you do not uh begin work until you have actual building permit. The written
resolution is on the permit. It's just a written resolution um memorialized in
the board's decision. Um we mentioned on the docket there's a one case that has
been removed from the general meeting docket just for um recordkeeping. That's
26-125. The board voted in the um general
meeting to allow that to proceed um without a variance. And with that, Mr.
chair, we can proceed. [snorts]
[clears throat] >> Good afternoon, everyone. Uh, thank you
for coming up today. I'd like to just just send a reminder that when your name
is called, um, please have a seat at the table. Um, you I'll ask you to stand and
be sworn. Uh, please make sure that your microphone is on. Uh, there is a small
button on the microphone. If the light is green, your microphone is on. Uh so
now calling our first case for today, appeal 26
87 2826 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Uh
Rosenberg Martin is here to represent the appellent uh NHP Foundation. Uh the
application is to construct a community center uh as a conditional use and
accessory structure requiring a variance to the bulking yard regulations. Uh
first we will hear from planning and staff.
» Sorry. Um just briefly um would it be all right if we moved later in the
docket? My client is yet. Thank you. >> Sure. No problem.
» Calling case 26104 3635 Edmonson Avenue. Uh Muhammadu Assan
Soel is the appellent. The request is to add a tobacco sales to an existing
convenience store. Uh first we hear from planning and staff.
» Good afternoon. Justin Walker with the Department of Planning on case 26104
for 3635 Eison Avenue. The request is the addition of the sales of tobacco to
an existing retail goods establishment that's authorized under the neighborhood
commercial establishment designation. Um per the zoning code section 14328
uh the sale of tobacco products is explicitly prohibited uh in neighborhood
commercial establishments such as this. Uh planning notes that in the event the
applicant can demonstrate this is actually a non-conforming retail goods
establishment which would mean it existed and operated continuously since
prior to 2017 uh when this prohibition was added. um that that would make it a
non-conforming retail goods which would be eligible for tobacco sales. Um from
what planning has that does not seem to be the case. This does seem to be a
neighborhood commercial establishment uh under which tobacco sales are
prohibited. So therefore planning recommends disapproval unless they can
demonstrate non-conformity.
Would you let me know when uh >> Sure. Yes. Yes. Uh could you guys please
stand and be sworn?
Gentlemen,
» please raise your right hand. You swear affirm the opportunity to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the testimony that you're
about to give. >> Yes.
» And could you both please spell, state, and spell your first and last name?
» Yes. My first name Mouhammad Hassan Soil is M A H M U D U L. Middle name Hassan H
A S A N. And the last name Suel S O H E L. Kenneth McCoy, Kenn
MC Ko Y. >> Thank you.
» And I guess one more housekeeping, you can have a seat. Uh we have received in
your board packet 17 letters of support signed by individual residents which
included their contact information. And we also received three letters of
opposition um dated June 2026. Um each or each
letter in the packet generally uh poses additional tobacco sales and details
concerns about youth access to tobacco um health risk associated with tobacco
and all three have report allegations of loose cigarettes being sold.
» Thank you. Uh please tell us what brings you here today.
» Thank you very much board members and uh chairman. Uh I'm here to um um
requesting to um add add tobacco sales on my existing uh neighborhood
convenience store. Um and um we have uh to prevent to sell uh tobacco cell to
miners or some our we have I have got some um equipments to verify the age and
u and I trained my employee as well. Sir, are you aware that um the current
zoning code does not allow tobacco sales uh at convenience stores?
» Um [clears throat] yes. Um recently I have a word about that and uh then I
filed for um BMZA hearing. Um and um yeah. So, um,
» could you um, how long have y'all owned the store?
» Um, it's been around a year. >> One year?
» Yes.
» And when you bought it, was it uh a convenience store?
» No, it wasn't. It was a barber shop and u I have renovated and then turned it
into an grocery store. >> A barber shop when you purchased it?
Yes.
» Okay. Um, so I have a question for staff. Uh,
barbershop is would be a neighborhood commercial establishment. Correct.
» Correct. >> Um, however,
would that uh sort of satisfy the non-conforming use?
So that I guess that's a question for the board's consideration. The
addition of the prohibition on tobacco sales which is in do we have copies of
zoning code? This is section 14-328 I
um pull it up since we're discussing this.
» I'm sorry. >> Just be able to get it online.
» Yeah. um that has a prohibition that became effective
um June 10th, 2020. [clears throat] And so the
interpretation that staff were going with was that a permit to start a new
business afterwards without with tobacco would be
prohibited. And so it's kind of consistent with planning. Planning date
was 2017 when there was an NCE. I think it could be later June 10th, 2020 is
when that tobacco prohibition became effective.
But if there's no prior history of tobacco sales, that was our
interpretation of like it'd be non-conforming. It could be
non-conforming and continued if it was prior to June 10th, 2020, but without
evidence of tobacco sales prior to that, then we think it would be subject to
that prohibition, which I'm going to put on the screen.
And sir, and sir, so um the problem that we're that we're encountering is that um
that although this was a neighborhood commercial establishment, it was a
barberh shop. Uh and so there's no history within in the zoning uh sort of
history in the records of the city uh that this was uh formerly before June uh
2020 when the prohibition on new uh corner stores selling tobacco uh was um
was law. Um there's no history of any tobacco sales at this at this location
and because of that it appears that um we may not be able to grant uh your
appeal. Um, are there any other questions of the applicant?
» No questions. >> No questions.
» And so, uh, I'd like to recommend that we, uh, adopt the, uh, recommendations
and findings in the planning department's memo. And with that, um, I
I'm going to be a no, uh, for this case. >> Also a no.
» Also a no. >> Also a no.
» No. >> Thank you, sir. And just to clarify for
the you'll get a written decision. I mean the issue is that although you're
retail goods establishment, you're classified as a neighborhood commercial
establishment because you're in a residentially zoned
block or property. So if it were a commercially zoned block where you could
be just retail good establishment, this wouldn't apply. But unfortunately, the
current zoning designation has you as a neighborhood commercial establishment
which has this prohibition on tobacco sales.
» Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.
Now calling our next case 266 4744
Alhhamra Avenue. Aisha Jackson is the appellent. The request is for
conditional use approval to use the basement as a retail goods
establishment. Uh first we will hear from planning and staff.
4744 Alhamra Avenue. The request is for a
uh neighborhood commercial establishment for retail goods sales. Uh planning
found documented history of non-residential use. Uh property
previously had authorization as a grocery store in 2018. uh which
satisfies the requirement of section 14300 for neighborhood commercial
establishments. Um as noted in the neighborhood commercial establishments,
uh the sale of tobacco and alcohol is prohibited. Uh but with that and for the
reasons outlined in the staff report, planning recommends approval of the
appeal. >> Thank you. But before I go, I want to
make sure there is there anyone here in opposition for this case?
Okay. Um please um stand and be sworn. Excuse [clears throat and cough]
me. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under the authority of
prayetry to tell the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the
testimony that you're about to give? >> Yes.
» Yes, sir. >> Can you please state and spell your
first and last name? >> Aisha Jackson, Aki, SA J A C O N.
» Alan Griffin, A L L E N G R I FF I N. Thank you. Yes, sir.
» Um, so tell us what brings you here today.
» Uh, good afternoon. My name is Alan Griffin. Um, I'm speaking on the behalf
of my wife who's the actual person that's purchasing the
property here. So, uh, basically,
uh, she's requesting approval to operate a neighborhood, uh, commercial
establishment, which is the, uh, 44 4744
Elam Avenue. Um, the business will offer everyday
convenience items such as snacks, beverages,
household essential, personal products. In addition,
uh she will sell a pearl under her clothing brand Bless beyond Measure,
which is, you know, t-shirts and socks or whatnot.
Uh
it combines neighborhood convenience and local shopping. Basically, uh the
community benefits from it. Uh bringing existing commercial storefront back to
active use. uh improve the uh appearance of the
property. As you can see, it's like need some trimming and grass stuff like that
out there. But uh and it'll create local employment once the business grows for
the community. We looking [clears throat] to uh put people from
the neighborhood inside of the establishment.
Uh and also it serves customers. It's a bus stop right there on the corner to
serve customers on a bus stop, hot days, beverages or whatn not like that.
And we have also a security plan in place, you know, to work with local law
enforcement and such. And we have uh Exfinity cameras that will be around the
whole building and inside and outside. >> Um, how long have you guys owned the
building? >> Oh, we don't own the building. We
actually rent. >> You rent the building? How long have you
been renting? >> Uh, well, the it's all based upon if it
can be approved. >> Okay. before we move forward with that
actual process. But >> okay. Um any other questions for the
applicants? >> No.
» I'd like to recommend that we adopt the reports, the findings in the uh report
from planning. Um after hearing the application, reviewing the application,
I'm hearing their testimony today and reviewing the application. Um, I have
not found any reason to believe that establishment of a neighborhood
commercial uh uh retails goods establishment at this location uh would
lead to any negative consequences that would go above and beyond what we expect
anywhere else uh within the zoning district. Uh and so for that reason, I'm
a yes for the application.
» Also yes. >> Also yes.
» Thank you guys. >> Thank you.
Thank you. >> So, you will get uh a resolution in the
mail. Uh please do not open business, open for business or do anything until
you receive that resolution in the mail from the zoning office.
» Yes, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you.
» Uh calling our next state next case 26171
844 Round Road. Uh the appellent uh is Chase Hoffber representing uh Bonnet
Harris for Carol's Development LLC. Uh the request is to use a portion as as an
educational facility, a commercial vocational requiring variance to bulk
and yard regulations and a conditional use approval. Uh first we will hear from
planning and staff >> 844 Brown View Road. Uh this is a
proposal to replace the former U tops elementary school with an 80 unit uh
mixeduse multif family dwelling. There is a conditional use and variances.
first to cover the conditional use. Uh the request is for an educational
facility, a commercial vocational. We understand it's in an employment
training center and we also have an office u for the mayor's office of
employment development. Um in addition to the conditional use which planning is
supportive of uh there are two required variances. First is for the required
front yard. Uh the district requires a setback of 20 ft. The proposed building
will project to within 11 ft of the front lot line. So a 9 foot variance uh
is required. We understand that there is both a slope uh on the front of the
building that requires the setback. Also uh the project will move the sidewalk.
The sidewalk is currently directly off the street. Uh the project will move the
sidewalk 5T in uh to increase pedestrian safety. Uh doing this would have made
the sidewalk split between the private parcel and the right of way. Uh the
department of transportation prefers sidewalks to be entirely the right of
way. So some of the property was dedicated to the right of way reducing
their ability to meet that front yard requirement. Uh so in addition there's
the height variance and I do apologize for one error in the written planning
report. I have 67 feet. The request is for 62 feet which is a 17 foot variance.
Uh that's necessitated also by the affformentioned slope in the front of
the property. The measurement methodology methodology and the zoning
code requires the measurement from the mean curb height to the top of the
building. So even though the building uh will only measure 45 ft from base to
roof uh when you factor in the mean height of the curb, the variance is
necessitated. uh planning finds that those meet the requirements of section
5406 of the zoning code and therefore recommend approval of both the
conditional use and all of the variances.
» Thank you. First I want to ask anyone who plans to speak whether in support or
opposition of this case to stand and be sworn.
» Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under the authority of
prayer to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, the
testimony that you're about to give? >> Yes, I do.
» Please state your first and last name. >> My first name is Willis W L I E
Walker W. I'm reser
and a retired judge. Thank you. >> Vonet Harris with Chyros Development.
Spelling my name is V O N E T E. Last name Harris. H A R R I S.
» Chase Hoffberger. C H A S E. H O F F B E R G E R.
» Michael Middleton. M I D L. That's the last name. First name is Michael. M I C
H A E L. Last name Middleton. M I D L E T O N. I'll be speaking in favor of
» got the important case. Got the mayor trail. You know, uh Mr. offer to tell me
about your case today. >> Sure, and thanks for having us. Um, this
is a a great project that um, Miss Harris here has endeavored to uh, to
take on um, as part of Kyros development in coordination with the Cherry Hill
Development Corporation and the city of Baltimore. This is city on land
currently uh, the site of the old school elementary school and um, as part of the
uh, 2020 Cherry Hill Transformation Plan. This site was identified as a
great location for affordable housing and um and a workforce development
center. Um so the general development plan here you can see the school within
the within the boundaries um is to is to eventually de demolish the school and um
on the east side of the property which is on the right um there would be uh the
development that we're here to talk about now. We'll call that phase one.
That's 80 affordable housing units and a um and a vocational school. And then um
and then phase two, which will take place later, um will will sort of take
the place of the of the old school here and that would add another 40 um 40
affordable housing units. We'd also note that the the uh development plan for
phase one includes um 90 off streetet parking spots.
So, [clears throat] uh, we're here to talk about two
variance requests and a conditional use appeal. Um, let's talk about the
variances first. Um, this this, uh, this requires a See if I
can cut down that feedback. This requires a front yard setback variance
and a and a height variance as Mr. Walker noted, and we agree with with
most of planning with all of Planning's findings here. Um, there is a 17 ft
change in grade uh from the front of this property to the back. And as you're
looking at the property, you can certainly see that it's odd. um curved,
wide uh narrow and irregular uh border in the back and uh and fronted by
actually this this rounded road is is uh two different roads. So there's Carver
kind of on the bottom side and then and then Round View on the right and then
and then Cherryland goes up along the along the shorter edge there. That 17t
change in grade creates a lot of problems uh for for developing a
building that can accommodate this amount of affordable housing. Um, in in
preparation for this, there's a lot of discussion internally about whether
there's a five-story building or a fourtory story building because in on
one side it's five and in the back it's four. Um, that's because you've got
about a whole a whole story worth of difference um in that grade. So if you
were to only if you were to adhere to the the strict definition of what uh of
the measurement of building height um and and you were to make it such that
from the front of the curb to the uh to the the mean average of the building
height uh at its closest point to the curb um and if that were to be 45 ft
then the back of the building would be um 28 feet which would really be a small
a small building and and it wouldn't it wouldn't accomplish the goals that
the that the transformation plan set out for the property, but it would also
create sort of an architecturally oddlooking building. Um, and so we do
think it's justified here to uh provide some relief and essentially create the
measurement from the back of the building. We'll note that because of the
um because of the orientation of this property with respect to the other land
in the area in the back you've got the Cherry Hill Elementary School. um that's
not really impeded by the height difference. And then um and then on the
other side you've got some uh HABC housing um and there's a fair amount of
separation both by Round View Road and just by the setbacks that exist. So we
think that the that the elevation um the building height in the front
really won't create any problems or orientation issues for the uh for the
neighbors. And in terms of the front yard setback,
Mr. Walker uh described the issue pretty concisely. Uh currently you can see sort
of a a very narrow small sidewalk that runs right along Carver Road into Round
View Road. Um that's not safe or really enjoyable to walk along. And the
redevelopment plan um proposes to move that sidewalk in a little bit. uh that
would create some some issues in terms of the sidewalk, which is a public right
ofway, obviously, uh being split between what will be privately owned land, and
the city right ofway. um as an effort to get around that and and um and and uh
take care of that issue in advance. Um we Miss Harris is is planning to
dedicate uh some of that land in a small portion uh to to the city and that will
create an issue where kind of in the middle of this of this proposed building
you've got a you've got an 11 foot setback where 20 is required. So, it's
not the entire building as your site plan shows. It's kind of a a portion,
maybe 50% of the front facade. Um, but it is a necessary step in order to
comply with with DOT preferences and also to create a little bit more safety.
There you can see that it's really a small small portion along that that
middle area. In terms of the other approval
standards, uh the practical difficulty certainly caused by the code and the
conditions of the property. uh it's not solely to profit but it's really to
create a feasible a feasible development that can meet the needs of the of the um
residents um while while also um while also fitting into the into the
conditions of the property. This these variances won't be injurious to the use
and enjoyment of other property in the vicinity. It's minimal setback request
and the and the property is uh relatively separated from other
buildings anyway. And um and again this this proposal is in direct direct
conformity with the Cherry Hill transformation plan of 2020. We do have
letters of support from South Baltimore 7 United Communities and the Youth
Resilience Institute and uh and in your file should also be one from Council
Member Felicia Porter. Now, under the conditional use appeal, um the proposal
is to put an educational facility, vocational in in this building, um kind
of in this terrace level, this this uh halfway fifth floor on the bottom. Um
and and also to install an accessory office for the mayor's office of
employment development. Um Miss Harris has secured a letter of intent from the
Affinity Community Development Corporation to uh to use this space as a
school. uh they're they're intending workforce development training for 15 to
20 students at a time. These students would need to uh accomplish 750 hours of
training over a four-year period in order to get trade licenses and things
like that. Um with approximately 12 hours of th of those 750 in the
classroom because most of the time will be spent um on site job sites learning.
um it's really a small portion of their training will happen on on campus and
this will happen from 5:30 to 8:30 at night. Um and so the so the office or
the school will be closed during the day. Um uh sort of minimizing the
impact. We think 15 to 20 students at a time is a very small impact anyway. Uh
in terms of parking, in terms of loading, there's plenty of off- streetet
parking on site. So um so Round View Road won't be packed with with people
parallel parking. We'd also note that that as this as the site of a former
school, this street is very uh accustomed to accommodating traffic
patterns anyway. So, so we don't think it would it would be a a very big deal.
Um, in terms of in terms of the approval standards for the conditional use
appeal, the site is a large property with an uneven topography and an
institutional use history as a as a former school. Uh it provides ample open
space for development and parking necessary to accommodate these residents
as well as the students. Um there there will be 90 off- streetet parking spots
as I mentioned and um and and as this has been a target uh as part of the
transformation plan for development uh we would anticipate rather than than
being a hindrance on future development that this could spur active community
oriented development in the community. So um with that I will close my case. We
have a few people here to speak in support and uh Miss Harris and I uh
welcome any questions now or after they speak.
» Before Before they speak, I do have a [clears throat] couple sort of
clarifying questions. Could you clarify uh building height?
» So the building height in the front will be 62 feet.
» 62. Okay. >> In the back the the back elevation is 45
ft. So the the difference between the the permitted 45 ft and you're permitted
45 ft on a corner lot, which this would constitute uh where where the the two
roads are 30t or more. Um so so you're permitted to go to 45 ft. The difference
between what is proposed and what is permitted is the difference in in the
change of grade from the front of the property to the back.
» Okay. The the reason I asked because there was I think discrepancy in our
records. We had 67 feet and 6. So yes, >> just want to clear it up. 62 ft. Okay.
I'd love to hear from your clients. Okay.
Good afternoon, members [clears throat] of the zoning board. As stated, my name
is Michael Middleton and I'm a longtime community advocate and resident
stakeholder in Cherry Hill. I'm here today in support of the PABSCO point
development and the zoning relief necessary to move this transformative
project forward. PABSCO point is the result of years of thoughtful planning
and community engagement. This project did not emerge in isolation. It is a
direct outgrowth of community vision for the Cherry Hill community. The
development is especially identified or specifically identified in the 2020
Cherry Hill transformation plan which recognized the former Patabo Elementary
School site as a prime location for mixed income housing and community
reinvestment. Patabco Point will create muchneeded
affordable housing opportunities for Cherry Hill residents. Cherry Hill has
not seen a new housing build in 20 years.
This project fully aligns with the economic and social goals established by
the Cherry Hill community. It advances key priorities including affordable and
mixed income housing, anti-displacement strategies, wealth building
opportunities, and workforce development and economic mobility. A particularly uh
important component is the plan workforce development and vocational
training facility. This investment will connect residents to meaningful career
pathways, provide skills training, and support long-term economic opportunities
by combining housing and workforce development. Patabo Point embraces a
holistic approach to neighborhood revitalization that benefits both
current and future residents. Patap's copoint reflects the principles of
purposebuilt communities model that Cherry Hill residents have embraced and
supported. The project integrates highquality uh mixed income housing,
educational opportunities, and economic development resources to help create
lasting positive outcomes for families and the broader community.
Cab's development has consistently listened to the community and responded
to resident concerns and priorities throughout the planning process. The
proposed development reflects what the community requested and represents a
project that is both economically viable and socially responsible.
As someone who has advocated for Cherry Hill community for more than three
decades, I have worked tirelessly alongside residents, stakeholders, and
community partners to bring meaningful investment to this neighborhood. Papsco
Point represents the type of thoughtful community centered development we have
been working toward for many years. The zoning relief being requested should
be approved because it is consistent with the goals, objectives, and
recommendations outlined in the 2020 Cherry Hill Transformational Plan. The
requested approvals will allow the community uh adopted vision to become a
reality. Pabsco Point will be an attractive and
environmentally responsible development that establish a high standard for
future investment in the Cherry Hill community. The project demonstrates how
growth can occur in a way that respects community values while creating lasting
benefits for residents. The requested variances are driven by
the unique physical uh characteristics of the property including its
topography, site configuration, and planned public improvements. These
variances are necessary to facilitate construction of the project as designed.
Importantly, the requested relief will not negatively impact neighboring
properties, public safety, or the character of the surrounding community.
Instead, the variances will enable a high quality development that advances
important public interest, supports citywide housing and economic
development goals, and fulfills the community's long-standing vision for the
former Patabco Elementary School site. For all of these reasons, I respectfully
urge the board to approve the requested zoning relief and variances for Patsco
Punk. This project represents years of planning, community input, and
collaboration. It is consistent with Cherry Hill's adopted vision, provides
meaningful benefits to residents, and creates a strong foundation for the
community's continued growth and success. I thank you for your time.
» Thank you. Any questions?
May I May I be excused?
» Sure. Sure. Sure. [laughter]
My turn. Yes, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, members of the board. I'm
here as a resident of Cherry Hill. As a matter of fact, long-term resident. Uh
I've been here since uh was about six months old. That area out there is very
uh I have a love and affection for it that uh exceeds everything all except
for being close to the bottom. That area sits on 360 acres out there. If the look
at the surround look at the graphs and the pictures that they have, there's an
elementary school there 159. I attended that school uh on the Round View
roadside. There are trees out there and the school as I understand it right now
carries the grades from two to six in the mornings. If you look at those
pictures there, you see the greenery there. It's a lot of greenery there.
Like to keep it that way. Uh that school that they're talking about what is 163 I
believe it is. >> It's uh borders on Bridge, right? And if
you come around that curve, it's very tight because it's public housing there.
160 uh I mean 159. I don't know the student population there, but I can tell
you this. They have three or four crossing guards there at Bridge Road and
uh Cherryland Road. Uh to put a unit they're talking about here is going to
really create a big problem traffic-wise. You got buses coming in
there with children every morning. I mean, every day. And uh they've got to
traverse back and forth. And you got property there. You got town houses on
the other side. You got public homes to the right of where they're talking about
and directly across the street. As I'm as I recall, you put the height
variation there. You're going to have some shade there. You might some
sunlight might be blocked for those houses that are there. Those p those
folks in public housing deserve the same respect that everybody else has when
they get up in the morning. They should see that sunlight. Uh the third thing I
want to talk about is the area around Round View Road. I don't know if you're
familiar with that area, but when I was a little boy down at Cherryland,
Cherryland goes south. Round view crosses it. Down on that
corner, there's green grass there. The reason why that green grass is there is
because there's a natural spring there. My mother used to take me down there to
get water. You turn the faucet on, the water so cold, hurt your teeth. Well,
that's all gone now because of the public house, because of the city yard
that's there. They had homes there, but they closed them down because of the
pollution of the land. All I'm saying is if you put this there, you got strain on
the sewer line, strain on the water line, you got close to schools there.
Uh, it's a lot to consider. Parking there is going to be very tight.
Going to be very tight. And not far from there, a few blocks just north of there,
I believe you got churches up there. So, people have to have the ability to go do
the worship in every every uh weekend that they choose to do so. And park, I'm
not saying that the buildings that uh Mr. Milson just talked about there to
put uh buildings in there for the city, there's a shopping center up there,
Cherry Hill shopping center. I understand it. the mayor's office. The
mayor has an office there. And if you need work or that kind of employment,
you can always go there. I mean, I don't see anything I don't see any value in
putting something there extra that people already have access to. I just
don't see the value of it. The value to me is the children. The children deserve
what you see there. They deserve to see those trees. As a matter of fact, some
of those students, the teachers take them out because they're wild animals
that come up around that area. at night and they take them out and they show
them the different plants and things that are growing there. You put a
building there with 80 units there, you erase all that. 8 time 2 is 16. That's
160 people you want to impact in an area that's already tight because of the
public housing that's there. It's right across the street. Uh Carver Road, uh
parts of Round View, as a matter of fact, the public homes that were there,
the government tore them down. That's all green now. is part of this whole
redevelopment uh area for Cherry Hill. They want to make sure it's just what it
is. And here you're talking about a setback. I think I was trying to make
some notes here. The board has to look at the uniqueness of it. The community
itself is unique. Why? Very simple. It's residential. It's not a building. It's
not a construction of concrete buildings like you see down here. Every yard out
there has a front and backyard. every house, front and backyard, including the
uh public homes. And I'm just saying that that when you raise children, we
had about 12,000 residents out there, I believe. And uh we're trying to make
sure the community stays green. We don't want a whole lot of
construction there. And those children shouldn't have to be subject uh
subjected to that simply because uh uh they want to make sure that school
becomes something else. some residents. Well, we've got construction on the
other side of us over at Port Coington. They're moving in there very fast, but
that whole area, I asked them, had they ever seen had they uh looked at the land
across the bridge. Nobody said anything. Then they had a meeting at the
commercial at the Cherry Hill Community Center. I went to that meeting. Son
begged me not to go because uh well, in my old line of work, I got a lot of
enemies. But anyway, uh I went and I saw the same man that
was there for poor coveting and I said, "You told me that uh you didn't look at
the land across the water." You know what he said to me? His response was a
very simple one and very direct one. He said, "All we're doing is waiting for
the mayor to say the public homes can go. They're going to put affordable
housing there." Well, I don't know how you can do it with one check a month.
And I think these people that live there deserve to have a community that they
got faith and rely in. And those of us who live there expect to continue doing
so as homeowners. But at the same time, I want those children to have what you
see there. They should have the ability to see green. If you're going to do
something, put something there that's uniform. You're asking for a height
restriction, a height variance. Most of those, that's R six if I'm not mistaken.
There's town homes, which means there's a front yard, there's a backyard. You
didn't hear them mention any yard here. All they care, all they concerned about
is the level of money that you can get, the impactness in the neighborhood. I
don't think that's right. And that's why I'm standing here in defense of not
allowing because if you want to put something there, I don't see why you
can't put town houses there. If you want to put something, there's nothing
stopping you from doing it because it's already zone R six.
And the other thing is a strain that'll put on the community. We don't want to
you develop an area like that. We're near the water.
We want to make sure that uh uh we have access to things. And I think the city
is as a matter of fact has closed it yard. They closed the yard down because
of the pollution. You bring more people in here, you got to make changes. You
got to have water. You got to have sewer. You got to have trash pickup. You
got to have parking. You got to have a lot of things that impact that area. And
it really impacts the area where the children are. There a lot of children
where they're talking about every day. Not just one day a week, two days a
week. Every day there children there. They go to school there. And I think
they should deserve. They deserve what they're getting. The ability to see
ecological things there, environmental things there, water, clean water, clean
air, sunlight, things that a lot of people take for granted. I think they
should be able to see every day. And I'm not going to hold you any longer
because I got to pick my granddaughter up from school. But I will say this, I
love that community. I'm 81 years old. Like I said, I've been there since I was
6 months old. and expect to continue doing so. Uh, it's got places for me to
walk. The mayor put a $25 million fitness center down there. I go down
indoor track, outdoor track. Go in there, sign in, walk. I can walk to it
from my house. And so can the other residents. They even have
uh what do they call it? Uh, robotics uh for seniors. Water water aerobics for
seniors. That's important. And what I'm hearing here are business items. I'm not
hearing residential. They going to put a trail down there so you can ride your
bike through there. You can walk through there. The
government hasn't even put any more public homes there. Veronica Avenue
vacant. Cherry Hill Road, uh, on the other side
of where they're talking about, you got public homes there. But if you go down a
little further, it's all pretty much residential. There's open land there and
at night you can see the deer come up in there, raccoons and a lot of other wild
animals come up in there. I think the children deserve that. Not a big
concrete building right next to the school. It's within walking distance.
And I think that a lot of people here that couldn't be here today echo my same
concerns. And uh like I always say, I think you
should speak up when there's something uh that's important to you in life. This
is important to me and I expect for the generations behind me to live there as
well as I did and I thank you for your time.
» Thank you. Um before we proceed, I do want to apologize Mr. Hoffber. Um I did
not know that uh this gentleman was speaking in opposition. I didn't give
you an opportunity to uh you know uh to yield before I allow yield as
opposition. >> Um but and I I will make sure you have
your time on the back end. Uh is there anyone else here today who would like to
speak in opposition?
» Okay, Mr. Hoff um Mr. Hoffberger. >> Sure. Thanks.
» I have a couple questions. >> Um has this project undergone site plan
review committee? >> Yes. Yes, it has. DPW been a part of the
site plan review committee? >> I was not I I was a part of
» Have they uh >> addressed Have they raised any concerns
about uh utilities or or or uh >> this property will we will have
utilities new utilities brought back on brought onto the site. Okay.
» Um there will be additional trees planted so that it will be
environmentally friendly and sustainable. um there isn't any impact
that was noted with respect to impacting the school children or anything because
initially this site accommodated two schools and there weren't traffic
concerns. Um we're bringing half the amount of people in this area than used
to attend those schools. So um there isn't going to be any impact. What we're
doing is taking a blighted property that actually adversely affects property
values in the community and a community that has been historically disinvested
for over 20 decades or I not 20 decades, 20 years. Um, this is a community
inspired project. Back in 2019, the Cherry Hill Development Corporation
initiated a planning process because of fears, real fears about displacement of
their community because they saw the pressures that were happening around
them, the Port Coington project, the project that was going forward in
Westport, and the community had real fears that uhoh, we're next. And I just
firmly believe and I think there's another other members of the community
would say when is it Cherry Hills turn to benefit from all the economic
investment occurring around them where the community has a real voice. This
project was originated and inspired through a master planning process. It
was the community to identify the site. There was over 350 participants over a
six-month process that participated and addressed real social economic concerns
within the Cherry Hill community. One of the things that were raised, he said,
the shopping center. This community has been devoid of a um grocery store for
over two two decades. And one of the things that we learned when we went
through that master planning process was that the economics of the community was
a hindrance because there's a an overabundance of um individuals who live
below the poverty um level that a qualified ger would not deem this
community worthy that you needed to increase the population. Also the
traffic counts was also a concern. Would you be able to get enough traffic to
accommodate a qualified ger? What we're attempting to do with this project is is
to integrate into this community [clears throat]
new housing choice. There has not been any new multifamily development, new
construction in this community in over 20 years. That is does not speak to
neighborhood stability. There is an overabundance of blighted property in
this community which has an adverse effect on property values.
Um the poverty rate as I stated is over 40%. The unemployment rate in this
community is over 7%. What this project is attempting to do is to address on a
sizable scale to accommodate those issues. Providing quality housing so
that folks are not housing cost burden. Yes, there's an over abundance of public
housing in this community. I believe there's over 1,200 active units. And if
you poll the residents that live in public housing, they would say they're
paying astronomical amounts of um money towards the utilities because they're
old and aging buildings. This building will be energy efficient where resident
utility costs will go down, not up. Also, we're being very intentional and
making sure that as this project is being built, it is a com uh a benefit to
the community. Most developers do not think about how do we create a workforce
strategy that will employ Cherry Hill residents. I can guarantee you most
wouldn't consider it. It'll be the quickest way in and the quickest way out
to generate profit. That has not been my motivation. When the community felt they
were going to lose the community asset, they asked me, "How can you incorporate
it in the Patical School building and the redevelopment?" And we were we
actually programmed space for the South Baltimore Adult High School to address
um the high school attainment issue in Cherry Hill. They have since found a
permanent home. Instead of just building more units, what I did was look for
another way of addressing a critical community need and unemployment,
creating real opportunity. None of us can control what's happening at the
federal level at this point outside of voting in November, but that's a another
topic for another day. [laughter] But what we can do to address the fact
that many individuals in this community don't have the resources or the luxuries
um that other more affluent neighborhoods benefit from is let's
create income pathways where they can actually thrive and not just survive. So
providing an opportunity for folks to get workforce development training in
HVAC, in um plumbing, two critical um construction trades that there's a
current deficit right now. These um getting being certified the
organization that I've partnered with will have certification where you will
be certified in Maryland, Virginia, and DC.
We're now talking about not just helping someone get a job, but giving them a
career pathway to be a licensed plumber or a licensed
HVAC um installer. We're talking about now people's income going into six
figures. That's building real community wealth that is changing the trajectory
of the community and changing it from within. So, we're not talking about
gentrifying a community where you're just bringing outside folks and the
people who live there. Oh well, we'll see what happens. Let's uplift the
community from within. And so that is the change that we're
attempting to make with the Papsco Point development. And again, I said that this
was a community inspired. It was not thrust upon a community. It was through
an intense six-month process where we evaluated where was there available land
to introduce something new that while the community is a partner in this
project as well because the Cherry Hill Development Corporation is a co-partner
co-developer in this project so they have an ownership state I'm a minority
certified um Baltimore city business owner as well this is really taking and
uplifting all of the master plans in the city that has adopted about creat
creating real economic development and opportunities for um merging businesses
as well as community organizations. I would say that you know the Cherry Hill
Elementary School is a 21st century school and that master plan clearly
stated that one of the objectives of that plan was to spur other economic
growth and then and one of those things was new housing.
I just know that when I grew up, I was able to imagine and dream because I
lived in stabled housing. I was not wealthy. My parents were not wealthy,
but I didn't have to worry about coming home and the lights would work or would
the plumbing work or would it be cold in the uh in the home? Because my immediate
needs, most basic needs were met, I was able to imagine see myself going to
college. I agree with this gentleman. Children do have a right. They have a
right to imagine, to set goals and priorities, and live in better. Right
now, this community doesn't have it better. Right now, this community has
been just surviving. But there are advocates in this community who has
fought long and hard way before I got to Cherry Hill. Mr. Middleton has been
there and in the in the trenches way before I I I came into Cherry Hill
community and have worked tirelessly. There have been others who have been
shephering this effort forward for decades. And there is now time that the
community will show that it all the aspirations that these plans state they
can do actually can happen with the community at the hymn.
» I'll yield if you have anything else to say.
» Great response. >> I'd like to say something in rebuttal.
» Sorry to say there's no rebuttal. >> No rebuttal.
» Yes. So, um, before you before you guys continue, I have a a couple clarifying
questions, >> uh, regarding height.
» Um, because this the height of this building will be 45 ft. Um, is a
conditional use required? >> No. So, I think I misspoke or maybe my
notes were out of date. So, I because I was thinking about the old version of
the older version of zoning code which had up to 45 ft with conditional use
approval. That's no longer the case. It's 45 by right given given the width
of the street. Okay, >> they are going to 62 based
[clears throat] on the measurement methodology. So they the elevation
showed basically from like the ground looking up it'd be 45 ft but from the
way the zoning code measures height it's from the mean curb line. So the curb
» to the top that's 62 ft. So that's what requires the variance but
» Mr. top explained like the rationale which planning supports and staff would
agree would make sense as a uh rationale for why
» and the residential portion is about is about right correct
» I'm sorry >> the res don't need a correct so in fact
the question I think might you can ask to listenit is the traffic impact from
the proposed conditional use which is the educational facility vocational
» yes that's where I'm going to get next next so I want to learn more about uh
the educational facility uh conditional use. Uh
namely uh just want to make sure that this will be will you know fit under
article 32 section 1 305 uh the two require the two sort of requirements.
Can you tell me more uh namely will there be tuition charged to the
students? >> Um there I I don't have all the details
but I believe yes. Okay. Um participants will have to pay to get their
certification >> and what subjects will there be?
» I'm sorry. Do you do you have clarity on what subjects there may be?
» So, it will be certifications to obtain licenses in plumbing and in HVAC. I am
not an expert in those areas. So, I feel like I just want to make sure [laughter]
that >> make sure it's a vocational school. So,
that's fine. Yes. >> Um, do you know how many students or
maximum amount of students? >> We're not we're we're not looking to
exceed between 15 to 20 students um per session.
» Okay. Per per se per uh session >> session. It takes four years to obtain
your certification. Up to four years to obtain your certification. And how many
staff for those students? >> I don't have that specifics just yet.
» Okay. The zoning code imposes uh parking
maximums um for uh for vocational facilities. Uh
I think it's one per 25 students uh and one per 20 one per 20 staff. And so I
just really want to nail nail down on that to make sure that we weren't
exceeding them. But it seems with 90 with uh 20 students well how about this?
Will there be any parking spots set aside for students uh as opposed to
residents? >> None reserved.
» No, we're not having any reserved. Okay. >> And the and the 90 to be clear is is
within the maximum for the for the residential so it can transfer over to
the extent necessary. >> Okay.
» Um there is a >> and again I would say the goal of this
program is to target Cherry Hill residents so we don't anticipate any
additional traffic concerns. We'll certainly open it up because we can't
discriminate, but um we really are going to um push Cherry Hill residents to
benefit from this resource. >> Uh you have a LOI with Affinity
» uh to operate the educational facility. Is that contingent upon any uh sort of
entitlements or anything else financing? >> It's that we finish the project
certainly because they'll be moving into the building.
» Okay.
Any other questions for the applicants?
» As far as your >> microphone,
I got a big voice.
» The intent with affinity. How strongly do you believe you can uh attest to it
actually happening? >> Well, they have other facilities and
other areas of um the state of Maryland and they're looking to expand into
Baltimore and so I actually um came across them before they actually started
their headway into Baltimore and got a commitment to them to come into the
point um project. So I have a very strong indication that that will come to
fruition. Do you have any type of time frame when
you think this thing could get wrapped up?
» So, the project has to go through uh um project financing. And so, um I
anticipate that we'll be submitting our low-income housing tax credit
application by the fall of this year to get through CDA's process. Usually takes
12 to 16 months and then you'll get to a financial closing um which will allow
the start of construction. construction is for this particular site and all of
its challenges and moving dirt will take approximately 16 months. So now we're in
2028. Um uh and so we would think after that
the building will be um placed in service.
» Okay. My only question is if you have intentions on having affinity
be a major part of this >> Mhm.
» then you can't get any type of u settlement early
in this process. There are a lot of things that you're going to have to put
in place to make either them or whoever the next committed operator would be to
to stand by. So we here may have to be able to give you conditions that either
affinity may not want to meet or the new director may
» have to meet. You understand what I'm saying?
» And that that's the only problem with a situation of this type.
» I think well I guess it's the board the board can place conditions as you deem
appropriate on the the proposed conditional use approval. Um I think as
um the applicant is stating yet they don't have an official lease um with
them and as you know the approval would run with the land. So in a worst case
scenario, a if affinity doesn't proceed, there could be some other operator who
could do conditional use or the commercial vocational school. And maybe
there's no problem with that, but that'd be something to consider like if it's if
there's a bad actor commercial vocational school out there that you
wanted to think about or avoid or have some outside conditions on no operations
after 10 p.m. or something, but then the residents would be upstairs who would be
impacted first. So they would be the ones as a landlord would be worried
about making sure that it's not going to be disturbing to the residents who live
upstairs. So maybe there's a natural check there. But that would be something
» that does get me. Um don't want to mess that red contract up, right? So not too
much riff raff. But um uh can you can you I'm going to uh I think I heard
earlier Mr. Mr. Hoffber that the hours operation for the facility will be in
the evening. >> That that's the intent right now. We
were just kind of confirming that that at this point recognizing the reality of
the situation. We'd be hesitant to um
to firmly say that 5:30 to 8:30 is the exact time of operation. What we can say
for sure is that the space um is kind of designed for the number of people. Um
the 15 to 20 students is uh in terms of realistic operational
uh capacity, that's that's where we are. and and it might be that uh in two years
affinity says well we'd like to open at 4:30 or something like that. Now the
design of the program which would have people in the field most of the time
would make it such that yeah I mean it's not a nineto-five traditional type of
school. These are people who are here to get their licenses in a certain type of
trade field work is important. So, so the actual onampus
activity will both be small in quantity because of the number of students and
small in in operational hours because because most of their time needs to be
out in the field. Um but but it I did say the hours I do think that
realistically, you know, if you're if you're considering conditions, we would
be hesitant to stand so firmly on those hours.
So, so the reason I asked and um and I want to get on the record is because you
know one of the things that we have to account for is traffic, intensity of
traffic. >> And so if you're saying that the the
vocational school will be operating in the evening when presumably the primary
school will not be >> open then that would mitigate any sort
of like traffic >> um intensity problems that we could have
» right and that is the that is the intent right now. Oh, and also just in terms of
the scale, I mean, you're talking about in total this this uh Papsco Point will
have 120 residential units and we're talking about 15 students, 15 and 20
students, some of whom will be walking from other points of Cherry Hill. So,
» how many residential units? >> Well, there's 80 in this phase and then
the second phase would have 40. So, that >> So, um so we do think
» I'm not going to talk about seven. We we on this phase 80 80 [laughter] units,
right? 80 units. Okay. >> Um
» at scale, we do hope that the board can recognize
that it is a small impact of traffic. >> And I will also add that um most of the
pickup and drop off for the Cherry Hill Elementary um middle school is on the
other side. It doesn't affect Round View Road at all.
» Okay. >> And and there has been a a a vocational
or adult education school on this premise. Yes.
» Uh actively in the old Papskco Elementary School. So that that those
those two educational facilities have operated in tandem without significant
traffic. >> You know how how long ago?
» Uh uh I believe they occupied in 2020. It was during co um when they started
and they exited in 2023 because uh I believe the heating system just
completely died and it was no longer uh attainable for them to continue to
operate in that space. And it was the adult high school as well as they also
had several um nonprofit organizations that support different um efforts in
Sherry Hill also sharing that space. >> Okay. Um
get Oh, Moabed. Uh I I understand that Moab may occupy certain portion Yes. of
the space also. This was conversations that I've had with Senator Ferguson's
office um about how do we um when we we're going to utilize the adult high
school of how to create in a nice continuum of um education. Um uh they
have a current South Baltimore location that's grossly underutilized and they
thought this location could be an ideal location to um increase those numbers as
well as help support the project. And so, um, although the adult high school
has now found a permanent home somewhere else, um, I was being intentional of
trying to find something, um, to put in it space that again addressed the social
economic determin. And I feel like this is actually a better, um, actually fit
because now you have people who are getting certifications and are now ready
for placement to be placed in jobs. >> In terms of scope, that would include
one or two staff members from the mayor's office. Absolutely. And how far
along had those discussions? Is there any LOI or any binding agreement
between? >> Not not at this moment. now.
» Okay. Um, >> just on that point because the staff
were talking about that issue and we interpret it as what the applicants did
with one or two staff because if it were a full-blown office, it would be a
separate use that would require approval. It' be a government facility,
right, >> or office.
» So, that would be a separate use if it becomes its own thing. But if it's just
having space within the vocational school to have desks, that would be
still >> the vocational school.
» Yeah. fit into these standards for accessories.
» Okay, so we got two variances before us. Uh
how will uh the proposed building's height compared to the existing
building? >> Um
I believe it would be a couple feet taller.
» Yeah, >> less than five feet.
» Uh >> we don't have exact measurements of the
of the existing building. >> Okay. But I do remember early on when we
um was doing that analysis, we were also looking at that because we wanted to
think about impacts um far as a community because I've been doing this a
long time and I know light becomes a challenge, but it's not it is slightly
taller but it's not terribly taller than the existing structure at this highest
point. >> Okay.
Uh
DOT asks you guys to dedicate a portion of your property. Uh is that an easement
or >> to be clear they have not they have not
yet asked in our experience and in Kimley Horn the the civil engineers
experience they will ask >> okay
» that that is an expectation >> and I have already given agreement to
Kimley Horn that if that is asked that I'm perfectly fine in
» so you guys have a verbal nothing binding
» it hasn't gone through DOT review yet it's it's something that was anticipated
during the site plan um um approval process that that would be a request
And so it was um I had already we already talked about it and I said it
it's reasonable. It's not something that I haven't seen in development before.
» Any other questions of the applicant?
» Are we ready to discuss? Um
I'd like to propose that we adopt the findings in the plan in the planning
department's memo. Um, I guess beginning with the conditional use, um, you know,
after hearing testimony and reviewing their application, um, you know, I do
not believe that operating a, uh, educational facility, uh, of this
magnitude, this location will lead to any adverse consequences that would go
above and beyond what we would expect of a uh, vocational school anywhere else
uh, within the zoning district. And so for that reason, I am a yes for that
conditional use.
» Can I open it back up to a question? >> Sure. Sure.
» Only because of my lack of knowledge am I asking this question. Could you in
simplistic terms explain to me what the Enough Act
actually entails? So the enough act was um a initiative by Governor Moore to
address childhood poverty and he was targeting specifically communities of
color that has been historically um disinvested or um are still dealing with
past discriminatory housing policies. And so it's a statewide initiative. Um
Cherry Hill was adopted as an enough community. And so there was an
investment by Maryland Department of Housing um of $3 million that was
provided to the Cherry Hill um strong um organization which is the community
quarterback under the purpose bill model. Um and they from there they um
spread out those funds among various stakeholders doing things that address
childhood poverty. So it could have been workforce development training, it could
have been youth empowerment activities, it could have been helping to build
capacities of organizations and other programs.
» So the vehicles available that have already been put in place and are
currently operative, I guess you would call it that can support your situation.
» Absolutely. I think there that the state recognized that this community has has
had a long history of disinvestment and so there is an an intentional target to
try to bring resources to this community. I would say that Senator
Ferguson was very instrumental in introducing the purpose bill model which
was um a model out of uh Atlanta, Georgia. The organization actually took
over um a I don't remember all the facts. Oh my gosh. But um I believe it
was a very large um public housing or low-income community and they um operate
under three um three pillars um cradle to college educational pipeline um
workforce development strategies and overall community health.
» I think I write your [laughter] ma'am have you I'm sorry I ma'am could
you please stand and be sworn because I think you just spoke and that was on the
record. Oh, I apologize.
» My name is Tracy Garrett. T R A C E Y. Last name G A R R E.
» Thank you. >> Um and so the whole purpose is to help
to change the social economic um conditions of a um historically
impoverished community to help um improve social economic determinance. So
there's intentional um push by the community to help improve educational
outcomes. So they have um various nonprofits that work with the schools to
help um with school performance and address um matters that impede children
from getting to school providing afterchool programs to help with um
academic outcomes um and support. Uh there's certainly um indivi entities in
Cherry Hill that helps with workforce development um outcomes, providing soft
skills, providing job opportunities and training. This all of this is just to
complement what's already going on on multiple fronts. Understanding that not
everyone's going to have the desire to want to get a certification in the
construction trade. There's um efforts I believe with Harbor Hospital to try to
improve um health outcomes as well. And they're looking at um exploring
opportunities um far as employment to help folks become licensed um in in the
medical profession as well. So there's a multistrong approach um going on in this
community. And so this is just to complement some of the work that's on
that's happening and to um certainly spur additional physical economic
development outside of just the investments of the two 21st century
schools and the health and wellness center.
» Thank you. Any other questions for the applicants?
» Um I believe we were um voting on the conditional use. Um I am in favor of the
conditional use. also
in favor.
» I agree. I'm in favor. >> I recuse.
» I recuse. >> Oh, so moving to first the height
variance. Um the applicant has stated that due to the topography uh and the
slope of the of the building uh although the building is 40 ft 45 ft from uh
ground to uh roof line uh from mean curb height uh to building
height uh there's the need for a 17t I believe variance
um I believe do believe that these are sort of that this is a issue that is
caused caused by sort of not by any um behavioral actions by the advocates
themselves but due to the physical conditions of the site itself. Um and so
strict compliance with the code will require them uh to build uh a smaller
building which will allow much less uh density on the site than as is by right
which may sort of make the project not nonviable. And so uh
adopting the findings of the planning department, I am a yes uh for the
variance uh for height
» also. Yes.
» Yes.
That's three. Do it. >> Yep. And then the last one was a
setback. >> Set back. Um
there's a variance of let me see how many feet nine 7 feet
11T I believe >> in the required 20.
» Yeah. So 9 foot variance is required. Uh there's only 11 foot setback here and
that is uh caused by a uh a need to dedicate at least a portion of
the land uh to the public rideway to allow a safe uh pedestrian uh
environment. Uh that land will be dedicated to department of
transportation. And so this is sort of an exceptional circumstance uh that is
entirely caused uh by the code and not by the actions themselves. It is a
desire of the applicant uh to ensure that the safety of pedestrians and those
who uh both live in the community uh and who may be students there are able to
access it safely and so adopting the findings in the planning department. I'm
uh a yes to the uh front yard uh setbacks
» also. Yes. To the front yard setback. >> I'm in agreement. Yes.
» I think that's all three. Thank you guys for
» So, I'm going to have to step away at 2:30.
» Two more minutes. >> In 2:30.
» Oh, yeah. Well, we can start. We should be able to get through the other one.
» Yeah. Quickly. >> We'll take [clears throat] a brief
pause, rush from Brit, and go off the record.
Oh, the cherry. Yeah.
» I don't think so.
» Well, I've already uh blown blown the record unfortunately.
» So, but I but I will get us uh I had that 2:30 call.
» You ready to go?
What are we thinking? Are we thinking >> short?
» Yeah, we lost. >> Too bor. [laughter]
» Wait a minute. I think one of those interns was knocking doors. Was he
running for state committee?
» I thought they were part of your project and I was like,
» "No, you were like very interested." [laughter]
» Mr. Clark
That's fantastic.
That's why I was like, let's make it quick. So,
» you're ready. >> I know you got it in
[laughter] recovering from my illness.
» You're okay. there.
[laughter]
» Like this is my nap time. >> I know. I know.
» I knew too much. I was starting to feel better.
» Really? >> That's That's how they get you.
» It is how they get right. >> Yeah. I thought I was right. the day.
» I had like social thing on Saturday and then I deep cleaned my house on Sunday
and then I had a full day at work yesterday.
» Yesterday was really hard. I [laughter] had like a four o'clock meeting and it
was virtual and internal and they were editing a document in real time.
» Wow. >> And then discussing where in the
SharePoint it should be filed >> and I was whiteing it because I couldn't
leave. I was already at the office. So it wasn't like I could like
» last last day
still make a late lunch
time.
» So you said you're ready to start. >> Yes, sir. We can go back on the record.
Mhm.
back on the record. >> Now recalling case 2687
28 26 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Um Rosenberg Martin is here to represent
the appellent NHP Foundation. First we will hear from planning and staff.
2826 Westwood Avenue is appeal number 260087.
Uh the proposal is for a conditional use for a community center as along with
some variances for a shed and a parking space.
Uh it's currently eight rowhouse style lots that the applicant proposes to
consolidate. Uh they're all unimproved. Uh the requested conditional use again
for a community center would serve uh as the clubhouse for a new development
which planning is in support of that conditional use for the reasons outlined
in the staff report. There are two variances being requested for a shed
that will be in the rear of the property. Um the zoning code under table
15601 allows a shed as a permitted encroachment if the shed is 120 square
ft or smaller. In this case it'll be 240 ft. Uh therefore it's not allowed as a
permitted encroachment and variances are required.
Uh it'll project to within 10 feet of the rear lot line where 25 feet is
required and it will also project to within 8.2 of the interior side lot line
where 10 ft is required. Uh we understand planning understands that
there are some trees on the site in the rear of the property uh that would need
to be eliminated to meet the setback variances. Um so because of that
condition planning is in support of the those two variances for the shed and the
conditional use. This is not addressed in the staff report but we had one more
variance request uh come in which is for as you can see on the site plan a single
ADA parking space that's forward of the building. uh that's needing a variance
under section section 1641 uh B1 which both prohibits parking in
the required front yard and prohibits parking forward of the front building
line. Uh generally planning is unsupportive of uh variances on outright
prohibitions but in this case again because of the wooded condition in the
rear and because this would just be a single ADA parking space we are no
objection on that variance. So, support of conditional use rear yard and
interior sideyard variances for the shed and no objection on the front parking
spot variances. Thank you. Uh, Mrs. Ree, could you please have your uh client
stand and be sworn?
» Do you swear or under the penalty of tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth in the testimony that you're about to give?
» I do. >> You spell and state your your last name.
» Gabbor Happy. G A B R I E L L E H A P I
» M Re Let's really focus on these variances today.
» We'll hit them all. We'll hit them all hopefully quickly. Um Drew Tilden,
Rosenberg, Martin Greenberg. Uh for the record, I'm here on behalf of the
applicant and I am joined today by Miss Gabrielle Hy who is a representative of
the applicant, the NHP Foundation. Um thank you Mr. Walker for a very thorough
presentation. Um you have outlined the variances specifically. So I'll just go
a little bit into the existing conditions of the site and then uh the
proposal. So this property is comprised of eight vacant lots. And then there's
also a paper alley and a portion of 1700 Gertrude. I've included um a tax plat.
Oh, it actually is not outlined on this tax plat. If you look to the north of
those row home lots, it's that paper alley above it. And then there's also
that tiny section of um the adjacent lot that is the Dukeland Town Homes lot
that's going to be subdivided and then all consolidated together.
Um so this is again it's located at the end of Westwood Avenue and it abuts the
existing Dukeland Towns public housing development. Um it's presently
unimproved and it's heavily wooded. Um, I think we can see that to some extent
in that photo, but I also have some aerial images that are um when the trees
are in bloom that gives you a little bit of a better sense in uh the materials I
passed out. Um, with the exception though of one area, there's a small
paved area in the rear of this property. Um, and that's important because that is
going to be where the shed is going. Uh so the applicant in terms of this
project is in partnership with HABC renovating the adjacent um Dupland
public housing development and then in addition to that they're revating
renovating the subject site and constructing a clubhouse. This clubhouse
is going to be exclusively for the use of Dukeland residents. It is going to be
um uh for all intents and purposes um a community um center for the Dupland
residents. Um, in addition to that, there's going to be a play area behind
the community center. I've included renderings of that in the file. Um, and
then there's going to be, as stated, a shed that is going to be 12 by 20 ft
that is going to be in the rear portion of the property where there's already um
a paved area. And then, uh, there's also going to be one parking space in front
of the building. And that one parking space is the handicap space. The site is
actually predominantly designed um to be walkable since it is going to be
exclusively for the adjacent Dukeland residents. Uh but the handicap space is
placed in a location um where it is going to allow those residents who can't
walk to the center uh to still um accessibly um take advantage of the
amenity. In terms of outreach, the applicant has shared its plans with
Councilman Torrance and they plan again along with HABC to keep an open line of
communication with the community. Uh I have on page three outlined uh the
specific relief requested. Uh there's the front yard setback which is.7 feet
instead of the 20 ft required. We have 10 ft provided for the rear yard instead
of 25. Uh 8.2 ft for the interior side instead of 10. And then again that
variance uh to permit the um off- streetet parking in front of the
building line. Uh I have outlined all of the conditional use uh considerations
that you all are required to consider as you find appropriate thoroughly in the
memorandum that I submitted. Um but in the interest of time I'm going to move
toward um the required findings. Um, so first of all, there's no facts or
circumstances that would indicate that the establishment, location,
construction, maintenance, uh, or operation of this clubhouse, uh, the
community center is going to be detrimental to or endanger the public
health, safety, security, general welfare, or morals, um, much less
anything that would indicate that this use is going to have a negative impact
above and beyond what is inherent to a community center at um, any other
location in the R six zoning district. It's not procluded by any law and there
are no facts or circumstances that would indicate that the proposed center would
be contrary to community interest and certainly it will not be um contrary in
any way that's above and beyond what's inherent to such a use in the R six
district. Um this approval is in harmony with the purpose of the code and more
specifically promoting and protecting public health, welfare and quality of
life. Um this is clearly going to improve the quality of life of the Dupin
residents. Um moving on to the variances. So I think generally um the
same argument applies to all of the variances that we are requesting in
terms of the uniqueness and practical difficulty. Um so in terms of
uniqueness, there's peculiar to topography on this site. Unlike most
sites in the R six district, it is heavily forested and that limits
locations where both the shed and this handicap parking space can be placed. Um
so this proposed location in terms of the shed is on an existing paved area
and then on top of that um the proposed location of the off street parking space
the handicaps parking space is in really the only location that is compatible
with both the topography and and creating an accessible path um for those
who are utilizing the handicap space. So to require the applicant to comply with
these setback requirements um would really preclude the applicant from
including these necessary maintenance sheds and the necessary handicap parking
space. Um so to require the strict enforcement of the codes regulations
would give rise to a practical difficulty. Um I ask now I've outlined
all of the supplemental findings in my memo. I'm sure that they're also in the
planning department's memo. So, in the interest of time, um I will invite any
questions that you all may have. Um and again, I'm I'm happy to orally go
through everything >> and I just told Liam or Liam, I told
Leland he can take his call and so I don't want you to feel like you have to
speak a mile a minute. >> I [laughter] I totally appreciate that.
» But you you covered that very clearly. >> That's that's always the goal.
» Um does anyone have any questions? put the microphone on just in case you you
ch Oh, thank you. Thank you. >> Thanks.
» Um we can just go through one by one. Does
anybody have any questions regarding conditional use?
» Does anybody have any question regarding the front yard setback?
And I appreciate Miss Tilden. This is excellent.
» Thank you. >> So if you guys need this summarized in
her packet, that first one um has them all listed out with a summary if you
need to refresh your memory.
Any questions on any of the other variants? Real yard set back. Interior
sideyard set back.
» And you did get to off streetet parking. >> Yes.
» That was quick. I was like, >> we're just we're moving through today.
» All right. Any other questions, Miss? >> Questions?
» Did you all have anything else that you wanted to cover?
» Nothing further. Thank you. >> Okay.
I'm just going to organize some of the documents real quick.
And Justin, you did not have a planning memo or did I just like speed through
that? You did. >> Yeah. Okay, great.
» It might not have made it into >> It did not make it into the packet.
That's what I wanted to just >> It should be in the folder.
» Got it. Thank you. >> And there's a copy in the binder in
which >> before I said
» adopt plannings findings. I just wanted to read it.
» And if I may, if we may, if you're willing to want to adopt the findings
submitted by applicant because I think you mentioned one of the variances isn't
in the staff report. >> Yeah. I mean, you said it, Sunny. You
said it was in >> the uh planning memo. It should be in
your binder. It's probably the first. It was originally the first case, so it's
probably under tab three or four. >> Okay.
» And then it's in the electronic folder as well.
» Thanks. >> But just to address that point,
planning's memo does not include uh the variances required for the front parking
spot, only for the shed and the conditional use. So,
» great. Thanks. >> Those will be needed in addition to our
findings. >> Okay. Thank you.
which is because they weren't in our initial application. I want to clarify.
» Got it.
» I had to turn on my substitute chair hat halfway through your [laughter] thing. I
was like, "Okay." Um, all right.
All
right. Seeing as there are no further questions
can go ahead and go to a vote.
We'll start with conditional use community center.
All
right. Based on the testimony from the applicant, um I do not see any reason um
not to approve the conditional use. Um this use will not be any more
detrimental to a similar use in the same district. Um
the nature of the proposed site is great. Resulting traffic patterns
won't be impacted in any negative way. Nature of the surrounding area. Extent
to which proposed use might impair its present and future development.
Proximity of dwellings, churches, schools, public structures,
accessibility of the premises to emergency vehicles. Accessibility of
light and air. Type and location of adequate utilities. Preservation of
cultural and historic landmarks. Character of the neighborhood. Provision
of the city's comprehensive master plan. All approve optical standards of a code.
The intent and purpose of the code. Any matters considered by the general I do
not see the following conditional use proposed in conflict with any of those
and um so I am a yes >> also yes
» also yes
» right now we're going to go one by one um each variance is that how you would
like to do it >> I mean the adopt
» Miss Tilden made the point I think the rationale is the same so if you're
comfortable voting on all of them at one time and for the reasons stated by
applicant I can >> draft a resolution.
» Great. For the reasons stated by the applicant, I propose um that we
recommend the application for variance of front yard setback, rear yard
setback, interior sideyard setback, and front yard off street parking. Um I am a
yes. >> Also a yes.
Also a yes. >> Yes.
» All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.
» Thank you.
» Are you all ready to go off the record? >> We are ready.
» You're off the record. >> 12:40. I don't vote for the record.