[0:05] um one general meeting item and then we
can go to the full regular meeting
[0:10] docket.
Um
[0:16] it's a preliminary item board um case
26125.
[0:24] We reviewed it more closely and we
determined did not need a variance. So
[0:28] wanted you to note this if you agree.
This was a fence case. It came to us,
[0:33] but they found or there's another gap in
the zoning code where
[0:38] there's no sideyard or front yard
requirement for a fence or for anything
[0:42] in the R8 zoning district. And so the
sixoot fence is allowed by right. And so
[0:50] I guess [snorts] for now the applicant
benefits from this gap. We should fix
[0:55] this gap in the future. But so I guess
this wanted to note this one and with
[1:00] your concurrence we'll draft a one-page
memo to the zoning administrator
[1:07] indicating that there's no variance
needed. So guess we can discuss or if
[1:13] you agree then we can I guess vote. I I
do concur with the staff's opinion uh
[1:18] that this application uh does not
require uh a variance.
[1:27] » I agree.
[1:32] » Can we get agreement across the board,
please?
[1:33] » Agreed.
>> Thank you.
[1:35] » Thank you.
>> Okay. I think that's only one and we
[1:39] have a footway thing, but we need more
information to get that on your radar.
[1:42] So, we'll come back to that one. Um,
now we can start the regular docket or
[1:52] the zoning docket. Okay. Good afternoon
and welcome to the July 21st, 2026 1pm
[2:00] docket for the board of municipal and
zoning appeals. My name is Justin
[2:04] Williams.
[2:09] Name the whole script. My name is Justin
Williams and I'm the interim executive
[2:12] director of the BMZA. The board members
here this afternoon from left to right
[2:17] are Kate Howard, Liz Cornish, Leland
Shelton who's the chair, Ryan Hargrave,
[2:23] and Victor Clark. We ask everyone in the
room please turn off their cell phones
[2:28] and then if you need to speak probably
with another person, please do that in
[2:31] the lobby or hallway. Um, the reason for
that is that we have a court reporter
[2:35] recording all the audio that's happening
in the room and then also someone from
[2:39] Charm TV is recording video of the
proceedings and so the microphones in
[2:44] the room will pick up your conversations
if you're having them. So again, please
[2:47] if you need to have a private
conversation, we ask you do that in the
[2:51] hallway. Um, we will be calling the
cases generally in the order. They're in
[2:56] the docket. Um, if you've not done so
already, we ask anybody planning to
[3:00] speak on behalf in support or opposition
for a case, please sign in in front of
[3:06] uh Mr. Walker and the desk here. Again,
we want everyone who's planning to
[3:10] speak, including attorneys, applicants,
those in favor, those opposed, please
[3:14] sign in. Um, when your case is called,
the applicant will go first. We ask
[3:19] applicant come to the table uh
uh introduce yourself, spell your name
[3:24] for the court reporter and take an oath
before giving testimony. Um the board
[3:29] will probably vote on your appeal today,
but that vote is not final. By law, we
[3:33] must prepare a written document called a
resolution which requires drafting and
[3:37] review. This process takes several
weeks. We will send it to you by email
[3:41] and if you're the appellant, you'll be
able to access it through. We ask that
[3:46] you do not uh begin work until you have
actual building permit. The written
[3:50] resolution is on the permit. It's just a
written resolution um memorialized in
[3:54] the board's decision. Um we mentioned on
the docket there's a one case that has
[3:58] been removed from the general meeting
docket just for um recordkeeping. That's
[4:02] 26-125.
The board voted in the um general
[4:08] meeting to allow that to proceed um
without a variance. And with that, Mr.
[4:14] chair, we can proceed.
[snorts]
[4:18] [clears throat]
>> Good afternoon, everyone. Uh, thank you
[4:20] for coming up today. I'd like to just
just send a reminder that when your name
[4:23] is called, um, please have a seat at the
table. Um, you I'll ask you to stand and
[4:28] be sworn. Uh, please make sure that your
microphone is on. Uh, there is a small
[4:33] button on the microphone. If the light
is green, your microphone is on. Uh so
[4:37] now calling our first case for today,
appeal 26
[4:44] 87
2826 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Uh
[4:51] Rosenberg Martin is here to represent
the appellent uh NHP Foundation. Uh the
[4:56] application is to construct a community
center uh as a conditional use and
[5:00] accessory structure requiring a variance
to the bulking yard regulations. Uh
[5:04] first we will hear from planning and
staff.
[5:06] » Sorry. Um just briefly um would it be
all right if we moved later in the
[5:10] docket? My client is yet. Thank you.
>> Sure. No problem.
[5:15] » Calling case 26104
3635 Edmonson Avenue. Uh Muhammadu Assan
[5:23] Soel is the appellent. The request is to
add a tobacco sales to an existing
[5:27] convenience store. Uh first we hear from
planning and staff.
[5:31] » Good afternoon. Justin Walker with the
Department of Planning on case 26104
[5:36] for 3635 Eison Avenue. The request is
the addition of the sales of tobacco to
[5:43] an existing retail goods establishment
that's authorized under the neighborhood
[5:47] commercial establishment designation. Um
per the zoning code section 14328
[5:55] uh the sale of tobacco products is
explicitly prohibited uh in neighborhood
[5:59] commercial establishments such as this.
Uh planning notes that in the event the
[6:03] applicant can demonstrate this is
actually a non-conforming retail goods
[6:07] establishment which would mean it
existed and operated continuously since
[6:11] prior to 2017 uh when this prohibition
was added. um that that would make it a
[6:16] non-conforming retail goods which would
be eligible for tobacco sales. Um from
[6:21] what planning has that does not seem to
be the case. This does seem to be a
[6:24] neighborhood commercial establishment uh
under which tobacco sales are
[6:28] prohibited. So therefore planning
recommends disapproval unless they can
[6:32] demonstrate non-conformity.
[6:36] Would you let me know when uh
>> Sure. Yes. Yes. Uh could you guys please
[6:41] stand and be sworn?
[6:44] Gentlemen,
[6:48] » please raise your right hand. You swear
affirm the opportunity to tell the
[6:53] truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth in the testimony that you're
[6:56] about to give.
>> Yes.
[6:57] » And could you both please spell, state,
and spell your first and last name?
[7:01] » Yes. My first name Mouhammad Hassan Soil
is M A H M U D U L. Middle name Hassan H
[7:08] A S A N. And the last name Suel S O H E
L. Kenneth McCoy, Kenn
[7:16] MC Ko Y.
>> Thank you.
[7:19] » And I guess one more housekeeping, you
can have a seat. Uh we have received in
[7:22] your board packet 17 letters of support
signed by individual residents which
[7:27] included their contact information. And
we also received three letters of
[7:30] opposition
um dated June 2026. Um each or each
[7:37] letter in the packet generally uh poses
additional tobacco sales and details
[7:41] concerns about youth access to tobacco
um health risk associated with tobacco
[7:47] and all three have report allegations of
loose cigarettes being sold.
[7:54] » Thank you. Uh please tell us what brings
you here today.
[7:58] » Thank you very much board members and uh
chairman. Uh I'm here to um um
[8:04] requesting to um add add tobacco sales
on my existing uh neighborhood
[8:10] convenience store. Um and um we have uh
to prevent to sell uh tobacco cell to
[8:19] miners or some our we have I have got
some um equipments to verify the age and
[8:30] u and I trained my employee as well.
Sir, are you aware that um the current
[8:38] zoning code does not allow tobacco sales
uh at convenience stores?
[8:44] » Um [clears throat] yes. Um recently I
have a word about that and uh then I
[8:49] filed for um BMZA hearing. Um and um
yeah. So, um,
[9:03] » could you um, how long have y'all owned
the store?
[9:07] » Um, it's been around a year.
>> One year?
[9:10] » Yes.
[9:14] » And when you bought it, was it uh a
convenience store?
[9:18] » No, it wasn't. It was a barber shop and
u I have renovated and then turned it
[9:23] into an grocery store.
>> A barber shop when you purchased it?
[9:27] Yes.
[9:36] » Okay.
Um, so I have a question for staff. Uh,
[9:41] barbershop is would be a neighborhood
commercial establishment. Correct.
[9:45] » Correct.
>> Um, however,
[9:48] would that uh sort of
satisfy the non-conforming use?
[9:54] So that I guess that's a question for
the board's consideration. The
[9:59] addition of the prohibition on tobacco
sales which is in do we have copies of
[10:05] zoning code? This is section 14-328
I
[10:11] um pull it up since we're discussing
this.
[10:14] » I'm sorry.
>> Just be able to get it online.
[10:18] » Yeah. um that has a prohibition that
became effective
[10:22] um June 10th, 2020.
[clears throat] And so the
[10:27] interpretation that staff were going
with was that a permit to start a new
[10:32] business afterwards
without with tobacco would be
[10:36] prohibited. And so it's kind of
consistent with planning. Planning date
[10:39] was 2017 when there was an NCE. I think
it could be later June 10th, 2020 is
[10:45] when that tobacco prohibition became
effective.
[10:48] But if there's no prior history of
tobacco sales, that was our
[10:52] interpretation of like it'd be
non-conforming. It could be
[10:55] non-conforming and continued if it was
prior to June 10th, 2020, but without
[10:59] evidence of tobacco sales prior to that,
then we think it would be subject to
[11:04] that prohibition, which I'm going to put
on the screen.
[11:19] And sir, and sir, so um the problem that
we're that we're encountering is that um
[11:25] that although this was a neighborhood
commercial establishment, it was a
[11:28] barberh shop. Uh and so there's no
history within in the zoning uh sort of
[11:33] history in the records of the city uh
that this was uh formerly before June uh
[11:39] 2020 when the prohibition on new uh
corner stores selling tobacco uh was um
[11:46] was law. Um there's no history of any
tobacco sales at this at this location
[11:52] and because of that it appears that um
we may not be able to grant uh your
[11:56] appeal. Um, are there any other
questions of the applicant?
[12:01] » No questions.
>> No questions.
[12:06] » And so, uh, I'd like to recommend that
we, uh, adopt the, uh, recommendations
[12:14] and findings in the planning
department's memo. And with that, um, I
[12:18] I'm going to be a no, uh, for this case.
>> Also a no.
[12:22] » Also a no.
>> Also a no.
[12:25] » No.
>> Thank you, sir. And just to clarify for
[12:28] the you'll get a written decision. I
mean the issue is that although you're
[12:32] retail goods establishment, you're
classified as a neighborhood commercial
[12:35] establishment because you're in a
residentially zoned
[12:39] block or property. So if it were a
commercially zoned block where you could
[12:45] be just retail good establishment, this
wouldn't apply. But unfortunately, the
[12:50] current zoning designation has you as a
neighborhood commercial establishment
[12:54] which has this prohibition on tobacco
sales.
[12:58] » Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.
[13:05] Now calling our next case 266
4744
[13:10] Alhhamra Avenue. Aisha Jackson is the
appellent. The request is for
[13:15] conditional use approval to use the
basement as a retail goods
[13:17] establishment. Uh first we will hear
from planning and staff.
[13:24] 4744 Alhamra Avenue. The request is for
a
[13:30] uh neighborhood commercial establishment
for retail goods sales. Uh planning
[13:34] found documented history of
non-residential use. Uh property
[13:38] previously had authorization as a
grocery store in 2018. uh which
[13:43] satisfies the requirement of section
14300 for neighborhood commercial
[13:47] establishments. Um as noted in the
neighborhood commercial establishments,
[13:52] uh the sale of tobacco and alcohol is
prohibited. Uh but with that and for the
[13:57] reasons outlined in the staff report,
planning recommends approval of the
[14:00] appeal.
>> Thank you. But before I go, I want to
[14:02] make sure there is there anyone here in
opposition for this case?
[14:06] Okay. Um please um stand and be sworn.
Excuse [clears throat and cough]
[14:13] me. Please raise your right hand. Do you
swear or affirm under the authority of
[14:17] prayetry to tell the truth, whole truth,
and nothing but the truth in the
[14:21] testimony that you're about to give?
>> Yes.
[14:23] » Yes, sir.
>> Can you please state and spell your
[14:25] first and last name?
>> Aisha Jackson, Aki, SA J A C O N.
[14:34] » Alan Griffin, A L L E N G R I FF I N.
Thank you. Yes, sir.
[14:42] » Um, so tell us what brings you here
today.
[14:44] » Uh, good afternoon. My name is Alan
Griffin. Um, I'm speaking on the behalf
[14:51] of my wife who's the
actual person that's purchasing the
[14:57] property here. So,
uh, basically,
[15:02] uh, she's requesting approval to operate
a neighborhood, uh, commercial
[15:07] establishment,
which is the, uh, 44 4744
[15:12] Elam Avenue.
Um, the business will offer everyday
[15:17] convenience items such as snacks,
beverages,
[15:21] household essential, personal products.
In addition,
[15:25] uh she will sell a pearl under her
clothing brand Bless beyond Measure,
[15:31] which is, you know, t-shirts and socks
or whatnot.
[15:34] Uh
[15:38] it combines neighborhood convenience and
local shopping. Basically, uh the
[15:43] community benefits from it. Uh bringing
existing commercial storefront back to
[15:49] active use.
uh improve the uh appearance of the
[15:53] property. As you can see, it's like need
some trimming and grass stuff like that
[15:56] out there. But uh and it'll create local
employment once the business grows for
[16:03] the community. We looking
[clears throat] to uh put people from
[16:06] the neighborhood inside of the
establishment.
[16:09] Uh and also it serves customers. It's a
bus stop right there on the corner to
[16:14] serve customers on a bus stop, hot days,
beverages or whatn not like that.
[16:20] And we have also a security plan in
place, you know, to work with local law
[16:24] enforcement and such. And we have uh
Exfinity cameras that will be around the
[16:31] whole building and inside and outside.
>> Um, how long have you guys owned the
[16:36] building?
>> Oh, we don't own the building. We
[16:38] actually rent.
>> You rent the building? How long have you
[16:40] been renting?
>> Uh, well, the it's all based upon if it
[16:45] can be approved.
>> Okay. before we move forward with that
[16:48] actual process. But
>> okay. Um any other questions for the
[16:53] applicants?
>> No.
[16:56] » I'd like to recommend that we adopt the
reports, the findings in the uh report
[17:00] from planning. Um after hearing the
application, reviewing the application,
[17:05] I'm hearing their testimony today and
reviewing the application. Um, I have
[17:09] not found any reason to believe that
establishment of a neighborhood
[17:11] commercial uh uh retails goods
establishment at this location uh would
[17:17] lead to any negative consequences that
would go above and beyond what we expect
[17:22] anywhere else uh within the zoning
district. Uh and so for that reason, I'm
[17:25] a yes for the application.
[17:30] » Also yes.
>> Also yes.
[17:33] » Thank you guys.
>> Thank you.
[17:37] Thank you.
>> So, you will get uh a resolution in the
[17:42] mail. Uh please do not open business,
open for business or do anything until
[17:46] you receive that resolution in the mail
from the zoning office.
[17:48] » Yes, sir. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[17:51] » Uh calling our next state next case
26171
[17:56] 844 Round Road. Uh the appellent uh is
Chase Hoffber representing uh Bonnet
[18:02] Harris for Carol's Development LLC. Uh
the request is to use a portion as as an
[18:06] educational facility, a commercial
vocational requiring variance to bulk
[18:11] and yard regulations and a conditional
use approval. Uh first we will hear from
[18:15] planning and staff
>> 844 Brown View Road. Uh this is a
[18:21] proposal to replace the former U tops
elementary school with an 80 unit uh
[18:27] mixeduse multif family dwelling. There
is a conditional use and variances.
[18:32] first to cover the conditional use. Uh
the request is for an educational
[18:37] facility, a commercial vocational. We
understand it's in an employment
[18:41] training center and we also have an
office u for the mayor's office of
[18:47] employment development. Um in addition
to the conditional use which planning is
[18:53] supportive of uh there are two required
variances. First is for the required
[18:59] front yard. Uh the district requires a
setback of 20 ft. The proposed building
[19:04] will project to within 11 ft of the
front lot line. So a 9 foot variance uh
[19:08] is required. We understand that there is
both a slope uh on the front of the
[19:13] building that requires the setback. Also
uh the project will move the sidewalk.
[19:17] The sidewalk is currently directly off
the street. Uh the project will move the
[19:21] sidewalk 5T in uh to increase pedestrian
safety. Uh doing this would have made
[19:28] the sidewalk split between the private
parcel and the right of way. Uh the
[19:31] department of transportation prefers
sidewalks to be entirely the right of
[19:35] way. So some of the property was
dedicated to the right of way reducing
[19:39] their ability to meet that front yard
requirement. Uh so in addition there's
[19:44] the height variance and I do apologize
for one error in the written planning
[19:48] report. I have 67 feet. The request is
for 62 feet which is a 17 foot variance.
[19:55] Uh that's necessitated also by the
affformentioned slope in the front of
[19:59] the property. The measurement
methodology methodology and the zoning
[20:03] code requires the measurement from the
mean curb height to the top of the
[20:07] building. So even though the building uh
will only measure 45 ft from base to
[20:13] roof uh when you factor in the mean
height of the curb, the variance is
[20:16] necessitated. uh planning finds that
those meet the requirements of section
[20:21] 5406 of the zoning code and therefore
recommend approval of both the
[20:27] conditional use and all of the
variances.
[20:31] » Thank you. First I want to ask anyone
who plans to speak whether in support or
[20:35] opposition of this case to stand and be
sworn.
[20:40] » Please raise your right hand. Do you
swear or affirm under the authority of
[20:44] prayer to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, the
[20:47] testimony that you're about to give?
>> Yes, I do.
[20:51] » Please state your first and last name.
>> My first name is Willis W L I E
[20:59] Walker W.
I'm reser
[21:04] and a retired judge. Thank you.
>> Vonet Harris with Chyros Development.
[21:09] Spelling my name is V O N E T E. Last
name Harris. H A R R I S.
[21:14] » Chase Hoffberger. C H A S E. H O F F B E
R G E R.
[21:20] » Michael Middleton. M I D L. That's the
last name. First name is Michael. M I C
[21:25] H A E L. Last name Middleton. M I D L E
T O N. I'll be speaking in favor of
[21:33] » got the important case. Got the mayor
trail. You know, uh Mr. offer to tell me
[21:37] about your case today.
>> Sure, and thanks for having us. Um, this
[21:41] is a a great project that um, Miss
Harris here has endeavored to uh, to
[21:46] take on um, as part of Kyros development
in coordination with the Cherry Hill
[21:50] Development Corporation and the city of
Baltimore. This is city on land
[21:54] currently uh, the site of the old school
elementary school and um, as part of the
[21:59] uh, 2020 Cherry Hill Transformation
Plan. This site was identified as a
[22:04] great location for affordable housing
and um and a workforce development
[22:09] center. Um so the general development
plan here you can see the school within
[22:14] the within the boundaries um is to is to
eventually de demolish the school and um
[22:19] on the east side of the property which
is on the right um there would be uh the
[22:24] development that we're here to talk
about now. We'll call that phase one.
[22:26] That's 80 affordable housing units and a
um and a vocational school. And then um
[22:34] and then phase two, which will take
place later, um will will sort of take
[22:39] the place of the of the old school here
and that would add another 40 um 40
[22:44] affordable housing units. We'd also note
that the the uh development plan for
[22:48] phase one includes um 90 off streetet
parking spots.
[22:54] So, [clears throat]
uh, we're here to talk about two
[22:55] variance requests and a conditional use
appeal. Um, let's talk about the
[22:59] variances first. Um,
this this, uh, this requires a See if I
[23:05] can cut down that feedback. This
requires a front yard setback variance
[23:08] and a and a height variance as Mr.
Walker noted, and we agree with with
[23:11] most of planning with all of Planning's
findings here. Um, there is a 17 ft
[23:15] change in grade uh from the front of
this property to the back. And as you're
[23:19] looking at the property, you can
certainly see that it's odd. um curved,
[23:24] wide uh narrow and irregular uh border
in the back and uh and fronted by
[23:31] actually this this rounded road is is uh
two different roads. So there's Carver
[23:36] kind of on the bottom side and then and
then Round View on the right and then
[23:39] and then Cherryland goes up along the
along the shorter edge there. That 17t
[23:45] change in grade creates a lot of
problems uh for for developing a
[23:49] building that can accommodate this
amount of affordable housing. Um, in in
[23:53] preparation for this, there's a lot of
discussion internally about whether
[23:56] there's a five-story building or a
fourtory story building because in on
[23:59] one side it's five and in the back it's
four. Um, that's because you've got
[24:03] about a whole a whole story worth of
difference um in that grade. So if you
[24:09] were to only if you were to adhere to
the the strict definition of what uh of
[24:14] the measurement of building height um
and and you were to make it such that
[24:18] from the front of the curb to the uh to
the the mean average of the building
[24:23] height uh at its closest point to the
curb um and if that were to be 45 ft
[24:29] then the back of the building would be
um 28 feet which would really be a small
[24:35] a small building and and it wouldn't
it wouldn't accomplish the goals that
[24:40] the that the transformation plan set out
for the property, but it would also
[24:44] create sort of an architecturally
oddlooking building. Um, and so we do
[24:48] think it's justified here to uh provide
some relief and essentially create the
[24:52] measurement from the back of the
building. We'll note that because of the
[24:56] um because of the orientation of this
property with respect to the other land
[25:01] in the area in the back you've got the
Cherry Hill Elementary School. um that's
[25:05] not really impeded by the height
difference. And then um and then on the
[25:09] other side you've got some uh HABC
housing um and there's a fair amount of
[25:14] separation both by Round View Road and
just by the setbacks that exist. So we
[25:19] think that the that the elevation
um the building height in the front
[25:24] really won't create any problems or
orientation issues for the uh for the
[25:30] neighbors.
And in terms of the front yard setback,
[25:33] Mr. Walker uh described the issue pretty
concisely. Uh currently you can see sort
[25:40] of a a very narrow small sidewalk that
runs right along Carver Road into Round
[25:46] View Road. Um that's not safe or really
enjoyable to walk along. And the
[25:51] redevelopment plan um proposes to move
that sidewalk in a little bit. uh that
[25:56] would create some some issues in terms
of the sidewalk, which is a public right
[26:00] ofway, obviously, uh being split between
what will be privately owned land, and
[26:04] the city right ofway. um as an effort to
get around that and and um and and uh
[26:10] take care of that issue in advance. Um
we Miss Harris is is planning to
[26:16] dedicate uh some of that land in a small
portion uh to to the city and that will
[26:21] create an issue where kind of in the
middle of this of this proposed building
[26:26] you've got a you've got an 11 foot
setback where 20 is required. So, it's
[26:31] not the entire building as your site
plan shows. It's kind of a a portion,
[26:34] maybe 50% of the front facade. Um, but
it is a necessary step in order to
[26:40] comply with with DOT preferences and
also to create a little bit more safety.
[26:45] There you can see that it's really a
small small portion along that that
[26:49] middle area.
In terms of the other approval
[26:52] standards, uh the practical difficulty
certainly caused by the code and the
[26:55] conditions of the property. uh it's not
solely to profit but it's really to
[26:59] create a feasible a feasible development
that can meet the needs of the of the um
[27:04] residents um while while also um while
also fitting into the into the
[27:10] conditions of the property. This these
variances won't be injurious to the use
[27:14] and enjoyment of other property in the
vicinity. It's minimal setback request
[27:18] and the and the property is uh
relatively separated from other
[27:20] buildings anyway. And um and again this
this proposal is in direct direct
[27:25] conformity with the Cherry Hill
transformation plan of 2020. We do have
[27:29] letters of support from South Baltimore
7 United Communities and the Youth
[27:32] Resilience Institute and uh and in your
file should also be one from Council
[27:36] Member Felicia Porter. Now, under the
conditional use appeal, um the proposal
[27:42] is to put an educational facility,
vocational in in this building, um kind
[27:47] of in this terrace level, this this uh
halfway fifth floor on the bottom. Um
[27:52] and and also to install an accessory
office for the mayor's office of
[27:57] employment development. Um Miss Harris
has secured a letter of intent from the
[28:01] Affinity Community Development
Corporation to uh to use this space as a
[28:06] school. uh they're they're intending
workforce development training for 15 to
[28:11] 20 students at a time. These students
would need to uh accomplish 750 hours of
[28:16] training over a four-year period in
order to get trade licenses and things
[28:20] like that. Um with approximately 12
hours of th of those 750 in the
[28:25] classroom because most of the time will
be spent um on site job sites learning.
[28:32] um it's really a small portion of their
training will happen on on campus and
[28:36] this will happen from 5:30 to 8:30 at
night. Um and so the so the office or
[28:42] the school will be closed during the
day. Um uh sort of minimizing the
[28:46] impact. We think 15 to 20 students at a
time is a very small impact anyway. Uh
[28:50] in terms of parking, in terms of
loading, there's plenty of off- streetet
[28:54] parking on site. So um so Round View
Road won't be packed with with people
[28:59] parallel parking. We'd also note that
that as this as the site of a former
[29:04] school, this street is very uh
accustomed to accommodating traffic
[29:10] patterns anyway. So, so we don't think
it would it would be a a very big deal.
[29:16] Um, in terms of in terms of the approval
standards for the conditional use
[29:20] appeal, the site is a large property
with an uneven topography and an
[29:24] institutional use history as a as a
former school. Uh it provides ample open
[29:29] space for development and parking
necessary to accommodate these residents
[29:32] as well as the students. Um there there
will be 90 off- streetet parking spots
[29:36] as I mentioned and um and and as this
has been a target uh as part of the
[29:41] transformation plan for development uh
we would anticipate rather than than
[29:45] being a hindrance on future development
that this could spur active community
[29:49] oriented development in the community.
So um with that I will close my case. We
[29:53] have a few people here to speak in
support and uh Miss Harris and I uh
[29:57] welcome any questions now or after they
speak.
[30:00] » Before Before they speak, I do have a
[clears throat] couple sort of
[30:03] clarifying questions. Could you clarify
uh building height?
[30:07] » So the building height in the front will
be 62 feet.
[30:12] » 62. Okay.
>> In the back the the back elevation is 45
[30:16] ft. So the the difference between the
the permitted 45 ft and you're permitted
[30:21] 45 ft on a corner lot, which this would
constitute uh where where the the two
[30:26] roads are 30t or more. Um so so you're
permitted to go to 45 ft. The difference
[30:32] between what is proposed and what is
permitted is the difference in in the
[30:37] change of grade from the front of the
property to the back.
[30:39] » Okay. The the reason I asked because
there was I think discrepancy in our
[30:42] records. We had 67 feet and 6. So yes,
>> just want to clear it up. 62 ft. Okay.
[30:47] I'd love to hear from your clients.
Okay.
[31:05] Good afternoon, members [clears throat]
of the zoning board. As stated, my name
[31:09] is Michael Middleton and I'm a longtime
community advocate and resident
[31:14] stakeholder in Cherry Hill. I'm here
today in support of the PABSCO point
[31:18] development and the zoning relief
necessary to move this transformative
[31:23] project forward. PABSCO point is the
result of years of thoughtful planning
[31:29] and community engagement. This project
did not emerge in isolation. It is a
[31:35] direct outgrowth of community vision for
the Cherry Hill community. The
[31:39] development is especially identified or
specifically identified in the 2020
[31:45] Cherry Hill transformation plan which
recognized the former Patabo Elementary
[31:50] School site as a prime location for
mixed income housing and community
[31:55] reinvestment.
Patabco Point will create muchneeded
[31:59] affordable housing opportunities for
Cherry Hill residents. Cherry Hill has
[32:04] not seen a new housing build in 20
years.
[32:08] This project fully aligns with the
economic and social goals established by
[32:12] the Cherry Hill community. It advances
key priorities including affordable and
[32:18] mixed income housing, anti-displacement
strategies, wealth building
[32:23] opportunities, and workforce development
and economic mobility. A particularly uh
[32:30] important component is the plan
workforce development and vocational
[32:34] training facility. This investment will
connect residents to meaningful career
[32:39] pathways, provide skills training, and
support long-term economic opportunities
[32:45] by combining housing and workforce
development. Patabo Point embraces a
[32:50] holistic approach to neighborhood
revitalization that benefits both
[32:54] current and future residents. Patap's
copoint reflects the principles of
[32:59] purposebuilt communities model that
Cherry Hill residents have embraced and
[33:04] supported. The project integrates
highquality uh mixed income housing,
[33:10] educational opportunities, and economic
development resources to help create
[33:15] lasting positive outcomes for families
and the broader community.
[33:24] Cab's development has consistently
listened to the community and responded
[33:29] to resident concerns and priorities
throughout the planning process. The
[33:34] proposed development reflects what the
community requested and represents a
[33:38] project that is both economically viable
and socially responsible.
[33:43] As someone who has advocated for Cherry
Hill community for more than three
[33:47] decades, I have worked tirelessly
alongside residents, stakeholders, and
[33:52] community partners to bring meaningful
investment to this neighborhood. Papsco
[33:58] Point represents the type of thoughtful
community centered development we have
[34:02] been working toward for many years.
The zoning relief being requested should
[34:09] be approved because it is consistent
with the goals, objectives, and
[34:12] recommendations outlined in the 2020
Cherry Hill Transformational Plan. The
[34:18] requested approvals will allow the
community uh adopted vision to become a
[34:24] reality.
Pabsco Point will be an attractive and
[34:28] environmentally responsible development
that establish a high standard for
[34:33] future investment in the Cherry Hill
community. The project demonstrates how
[34:37] growth can occur in a way that respects
community values while creating lasting
[34:43] benefits for residents.
The requested variances are driven by
[34:48] the unique physical uh characteristics
of the property including its
[34:53] topography, site configuration, and
planned public improvements. These
[34:58] variances are necessary to facilitate
construction of the project as designed.
[35:04] Importantly, the requested relief will
not negatively impact neighboring
[35:09] properties, public safety, or the
character of the surrounding community.
[35:14] Instead, the variances will enable a
high quality development that advances
[35:19] important public interest, supports
citywide housing and economic
[35:24] development goals, and fulfills the
community's long-standing vision for the
[35:29] former Patabco Elementary School site.
For all of these reasons, I respectfully
[35:35] urge the board to approve the requested
zoning relief and variances for Patsco
[35:40] Punk. This project represents years of
planning, community input, and
[35:45] collaboration. It is consistent with
Cherry Hill's adopted vision, provides
[35:50] meaningful benefits to residents, and
creates a strong foundation for the
[35:55] community's continued growth and
success. I thank you for your time.
[36:01] » Thank you. Any questions?
[36:11] May I
May I be excused?
[36:13] » Sure. Sure. Sure. [laughter]
[36:22] My turn. Yes, sir. Thank you. Good
afternoon, members of the board. I'm
[36:26] here as a resident of Cherry Hill. As a
matter of fact, long-term resident. Uh
[36:31] I've been here since uh was about six
months old. That area out there is very
[36:38] uh I have a love and affection for it
that uh exceeds everything all except
[36:44] for being close to the bottom. That area
sits on 360 acres out there. If the look
[36:51] at the surround look at the graphs and
the pictures that they have, there's an
[36:55] elementary school there 159. I attended
that school uh on the Round View
[37:01] roadside. There are trees out there and
the school as I understand it right now
[37:07] carries the grades from two to six in
the mornings. If you look at those
[37:11] pictures there, you see the greenery
there. It's a lot of greenery there.
[37:14] Like to keep it that way. Uh that school
that they're talking about what is 163 I
[37:20] believe it is.
>> It's uh borders on Bridge, right? And if
[37:24] you come around that curve, it's very
tight because it's public housing there.
[37:28] 160 uh I mean 159. I don't know the
student population there, but I can tell
[37:34] you this. They have three or four
crossing guards there at Bridge Road and
[37:39] uh Cherryland Road. Uh to put a unit
they're talking about here is going to
[37:45] really create a big problem
traffic-wise. You got buses coming in
[37:48] there with children every morning. I
mean, every day. And uh they've got to
[37:53] traverse back and forth. And you got
property there. You got town houses on
[37:57] the other side. You got public homes to
the right of where they're talking about
[38:02] and directly across the street. As I'm
as I recall, you put the height
[38:07] variation there. You're going to have
some shade there. You might some
[38:10] sunlight might be blocked for those
houses that are there. Those p those
[38:14] folks in public housing deserve the same
respect that everybody else has when
[38:19] they get up in the morning. They should
see that sunlight. Uh the third thing I
[38:23] want to talk about is the area around
Round View Road. I don't know if you're
[38:28] familiar with that area, but when I was
a little boy down at Cherryland,
[38:32] Cherryland goes south.
Round view crosses it. Down on that
[38:37] corner, there's green grass there. The
reason why that green grass is there is
[38:41] because there's a natural spring there.
My mother used to take me down there to
[38:46] get water. You turn the faucet on, the
water so cold, hurt your teeth. Well,
[38:51] that's all gone now because of the
public house, because of the city yard
[38:55] that's there. They had homes there, but
they closed them down because of the
[39:01] pollution of the land. All I'm saying is
if you put this there, you got strain on
[39:06] the sewer line, strain on the water
line, you got close to schools there.
[39:10] Uh, it's a lot to consider. Parking
there is going to be very tight.
[39:15] Going to be very tight. And not far from
there, a few blocks just north of there,
[39:20] I believe you got churches up there. So,
people have to have the ability to go do
[39:25] the worship in every every uh weekend
that they choose to do so. And park, I'm
[39:31] not saying that the buildings that uh
Mr. Milson just talked about there to
[39:36] put uh buildings in there for the city,
there's a shopping center up there,
[39:40] Cherry Hill shopping center. I
understand it. the mayor's office. The
[39:43] mayor has an office there. And if you
need work or that kind of employment,
[39:47] you can always go there. I mean, I don't
see anything I don't see any value in
[39:52] putting something there extra that
people already have access to. I just
[39:58] don't see the value of it. The value to
me is the children. The children deserve
[40:02] what you see there. They deserve to see
those trees. As a matter of fact, some
[40:06] of those students, the teachers take
them out because they're wild animals
[40:09] that come up around that area. at night
and they take them out and they show
[40:14] them the different plants and things
that are growing there. You put a
[40:17] building there with 80 units there, you
erase all that. 8 time 2 is 16. That's
[40:23] 160 people you want to impact in an area
that's already tight because of the
[40:28] public housing that's there. It's right
across the street. Uh Carver Road, uh
[40:34] parts of Round View, as a matter of
fact, the public homes that were there,
[40:37] the government tore them down. That's
all green now. is part of this whole
[40:42] redevelopment uh area for Cherry Hill.
They want to make sure it's just what it
[40:47] is. And here you're talking about a
setback. I think I was trying to make
[40:51] some notes here. The board has to look
at the uniqueness of it. The community
[40:56] itself is unique. Why? Very simple. It's
residential. It's not a building. It's
[41:01] not a construction of concrete buildings
like you see down here. Every yard out
[41:06] there has a front and backyard. every
house, front and backyard, including the
[41:11] uh public homes. And I'm just saying
that that when you raise children, we
[41:16] had about 12,000 residents out there, I
believe. And uh we're trying to make
[41:22] sure the community stays green.
We don't want a whole lot of
[41:26] construction there. And those children
shouldn't have to be subject uh
[41:30] subjected to that simply because uh uh
they want to make sure that school
[41:36] becomes something else. some residents.
Well, we've got construction on the
[41:40] other side of us over at Port Coington.
They're moving in there very fast, but
[41:45] that whole area, I asked them, had they
ever seen had they uh looked at the land
[41:50] across the bridge. Nobody said anything.
Then they had a meeting at the
[41:54] commercial at the Cherry Hill Community
Center. I went to that meeting. Son
[41:59] begged me not to go because uh well, in
my old line of work, I got a lot of
[42:03] enemies. But anyway,
uh I went and I saw the same man that
[42:09] was there for poor coveting and I said,
"You told me that uh you didn't look at
[42:14] the land across the water." You know
what he said to me? His response was a
[42:17] very simple one and very direct one. He
said, "All we're doing is waiting for
[42:21] the mayor to say the public homes can
go. They're going to put affordable
[42:25] housing there." Well, I don't know how
you can do it with one check a month.
[42:31] And I think these people that live there
deserve to have a community that they
[42:35] got faith and rely in. And those of us
who live there expect to continue doing
[42:41] so as homeowners. But at the same time,
I want those children to have what you
[42:45] see there. They should have the ability
to see green. If you're going to do
[42:48] something, put something there that's
uniform. You're asking for a height
[42:52] restriction, a height variance. Most of
those, that's R six if I'm not mistaken.
[42:58] There's town homes, which means there's
a front yard, there's a backyard. You
[43:04] didn't hear them mention any yard here.
All they care, all they concerned about
[43:08] is the level of money that you can get,
the impactness in the neighborhood. I
[43:14] don't think that's right. And that's why
I'm standing here in defense of not
[43:19] allowing because if you want to put
something there, I don't see why you
[43:22] can't put town houses there. If you want
to put something, there's nothing
[43:26] stopping you from doing it because it's
already zone R six.
[43:30] And the other thing is a strain that'll
put on the community. We don't want to
[43:34] you develop an area like that. We're
near the water.
[43:39] We want to make sure that uh uh we have
access to things. And I think the city
[43:44] is as a matter of fact has closed it
yard. They closed the yard down because
[43:49] of the pollution. You bring more people
in here, you got to make changes. You
[43:54] got to have water. You got to have
sewer. You got to have trash pickup. You
[43:59] got to have parking. You got to have a
lot of things that impact that area. And
[44:05] it really impacts the area where the
children are. There a lot of children
[44:08] where they're talking about every day.
Not just one day a week, two days a
[44:12] week. Every day there children there.
They go to school there. And I think
[44:18] they should deserve. They deserve what
they're getting. The ability to see
[44:22] ecological things there, environmental
things there, water, clean water, clean
[44:28] air, sunlight, things that a lot of
people take for granted. I think they
[44:33] should be able to see every day.
And I'm not going to hold you any longer
[44:37] because I got to pick my granddaughter
up from school. But I will say this, I
[44:43] love that community. I'm 81 years old.
Like I said, I've been there since I was
[44:47] 6 months old. and expect to continue
doing so. Uh, it's got places for me to
[44:53] walk. The mayor put a $25 million
fitness center down there. I go down
[44:59] indoor track, outdoor track. Go in
there, sign in, walk. I can walk to it
[45:05] from my house. And so can the other
residents. They even have
[45:10] uh what do they call it? Uh, robotics uh
for seniors. Water water aerobics for
[45:17] seniors. That's important. And what I'm
hearing here are business items. I'm not
[45:24] hearing residential. They going to put a
trail down there so you can ride your
[45:27] bike through there.
You can walk through there. The
[45:31] government hasn't even put any more
public homes there. Veronica Avenue
[45:35] vacant.
Cherry Hill Road, uh, on the other side
[45:40] of where they're talking about, you got
public homes there. But if you go down a
[45:44] little further, it's all pretty much
residential. There's open land there and
[45:49] at night you can see the deer come up in
there, raccoons and a lot of other wild
[45:54] animals come up in there. I think the
children deserve that. Not a big
[45:59] concrete building right next to the
school. It's within walking distance.
[46:07] And I think that a lot of people here
that couldn't be here today echo my same
[46:11] concerns.
And uh like I always say, I think you
[46:16] should speak up when there's something
uh that's important to you in life. This
[46:22] is important to me and I expect for the
generations behind me to live there as
[46:27] well as I did and I thank you for your
time.
[46:30] » Thank you. Um before we proceed, I do
want to apologize Mr. Hoffber. Um I did
[46:35] not know that uh this gentleman was
speaking in opposition. I didn't give
[46:38] you an opportunity to uh you know uh to
yield before I allow yield as
[46:42] opposition.
>> Um but and I I will make sure you have
[46:45] your time on the back end. Uh is there
anyone else here today who would like to
[46:49] speak in opposition?
[46:54] » Okay, Mr. Hoff um Mr. Hoffberger.
>> Sure. Thanks.
[46:57] » I have a couple questions.
>> Um has this project undergone site plan
[47:04] review committee?
>> Yes. Yes, it has. DPW been a part of the
[47:07] site plan review committee?
>> I was not I I was a part of
[47:10] » Have they uh
>> addressed Have they raised any concerns
[47:15] about uh utilities or or or uh
>> this property will we will have
[47:21] utilities new utilities brought back on
brought onto the site. Okay.
[47:24] » Um there will be additional trees
planted so that it will be
[47:27] environmentally friendly and
sustainable. um there isn't any impact
[47:32] that was noted with respect to impacting
the school children or anything because
[47:36] initially this site accommodated two
schools and there weren't traffic
[47:40] concerns. Um we're bringing half the
amount of people in this area than used
[47:44] to attend those schools. So um there
isn't going to be any impact. What we're
[47:48] doing is taking a blighted property that
actually adversely affects property
[47:54] values in the community and a community
that has been historically disinvested
[47:59] for over 20 decades or I not 20 decades,
20 years. Um, this is a community
[48:06] inspired project. Back in 2019, the
Cherry Hill Development Corporation
[48:12] initiated a planning process because of
fears, real fears about displacement of
[48:19] their community because they saw the
pressures that were happening around
[48:22] them, the Port Coington project, the
project that was going forward in
[48:26] Westport, and the community had real
fears that uhoh, we're next. And I just
[48:32] firmly believe and I think there's
another other members of the community
[48:35] would say when is it Cherry Hills turn
to benefit from all the economic
[48:39] investment occurring around them where
the community has a real voice. This
[48:45] project was originated and inspired
through a master planning process. It
[48:50] was the community to identify the site.
There was over 350 participants over a
[48:55] six-month process that participated and
addressed real social economic concerns
[49:00] within the Cherry Hill community. One of
the things that were raised, he said,
[49:04] the shopping center. This community has
been devoid of a um grocery store for
[49:11] over two two decades. And one of the
things that we learned when we went
[49:15] through that master planning process was
that the economics of the community was
[49:19] a hindrance because there's a an
overabundance of um individuals who live
[49:25] below the poverty um level that a
qualified ger would not deem this
[49:31] community worthy that you needed to
increase the population. Also the
[49:36] traffic counts was also a concern. Would
you be able to get enough traffic to
[49:40] accommodate a qualified ger? What we're
attempting to do with this project is is
[49:46] to integrate into this community
[clears throat]
[49:49] new housing choice. There has not been
any new multifamily development, new
[49:55] construction in this community in over
20 years. That is does not speak to
[50:01] neighborhood stability. There is an
overabundance of blighted property in
[50:05] this community which has an adverse
effect on property values.
[50:10] Um the poverty rate as I stated is over
40%. The unemployment rate in this
[50:16] community is over 7%. What this project
is attempting to do is to address on a
[50:21] sizable scale to accommodate those
issues. Providing quality housing so
[50:26] that folks are not housing cost burden.
Yes, there's an over abundance of public
[50:31] housing in this community. I believe
there's over 1,200 active units. And if
[50:35] you poll the residents that live in
public housing, they would say they're
[50:38] paying astronomical amounts of um money
towards the utilities because they're
[50:43] old and aging buildings. This building
will be energy efficient where resident
[50:49] utility costs will go down, not up.
Also, we're being very intentional and
[50:56] making sure that as this project is
being built, it is a com uh a benefit to
[51:01] the community. Most developers do not
think about how do we create a workforce
[51:05] strategy that will employ Cherry Hill
residents. I can guarantee you most
[51:11] wouldn't consider it. It'll be the
quickest way in and the quickest way out
[51:15] to generate profit. That has not been my
motivation. When the community felt they
[51:20] were going to lose the community asset,
they asked me, "How can you incorporate
[51:24] it in the Patical School building and
the redevelopment?" And we were we
[51:28] actually programmed space for the South
Baltimore Adult High School to address
[51:33] um the high school attainment issue in
Cherry Hill. They have since found a
[51:37] permanent home. Instead of just building
more units, what I did was look for
[51:42] another way of addressing a critical
community need and unemployment,
[51:47] creating real opportunity. None of us
can control what's happening at the
[51:51] federal level at this point outside of
voting in November, but that's a another
[51:55] topic for another day. [laughter]
But what we can do to address the fact
[51:59] that many individuals in this community
don't have the resources or the luxuries
[52:05] um that other more affluent
neighborhoods benefit from is let's
[52:09] create income pathways where they can
actually thrive and not just survive. So
[52:15] providing an opportunity for folks to
get workforce development training in
[52:19] HVAC, in um plumbing, two critical um
construction trades that there's a
[52:25] current deficit right now.
These um getting being certified the
[52:31] organization that I've partnered with
will have certification where you will
[52:34] be certified in Maryland, Virginia, and
DC.
[52:38] We're now talking about not just helping
someone get a job, but giving them a
[52:43] career pathway
to be a licensed plumber or a licensed
[52:47] HVAC um installer. We're talking about
now people's income going into six
[52:52] figures. That's building real community
wealth that is changing the trajectory
[52:58] of the community and changing it from
within. So, we're not talking about
[53:03] gentrifying a community where you're
just bringing outside folks and the
[53:06] people who live there. Oh well, we'll
see what happens. Let's uplift the
[53:10] community from within.
And so that is the change that we're
[53:14] attempting to make with the Papsco Point
development. And again, I said that this
[53:18] was a community inspired. It was not
thrust upon a community. It was through
[53:23] an intense six-month process where we
evaluated where was there available land
[53:28] to introduce something new that while
the community is a partner in this
[53:34] project as well because the Cherry Hill
Development Corporation is a co-partner
[53:38] co-developer in this project so they
have an ownership state I'm a minority
[53:42] certified um Baltimore city business
owner as well this is really taking and
[53:48] uplifting all of the master plans in the
city that has adopted about creat
[53:52] creating real economic development and
opportunities for um merging businesses
[53:57] as well as community organizations. I
would say that you know the Cherry Hill
[54:03] Elementary School is a 21st century
school and that master plan clearly
[54:07] stated that one of the objectives of
that plan was to spur other economic
[54:11] growth and then and one of those things
was new housing.
[54:18] I just know that when I grew up, I was
able to imagine and dream because I
[54:23] lived in stabled housing. I was not
wealthy. My parents were not wealthy,
[54:28] but I didn't have to worry about coming
home and the lights would work or would
[54:33] the plumbing work or would it be cold in
the uh in the home? Because my immediate
[54:38] needs, most basic needs were met, I was
able to imagine see myself going to
[54:43] college. I agree with this gentleman.
Children do have a right. They have a
[54:49] right to imagine, to set goals and
priorities, and live in better. Right
[54:54] now, this community doesn't have it
better. Right now, this community has
[54:58] been just surviving. But there are
advocates in this community who has
[55:02] fought long and hard way before I got to
Cherry Hill. Mr. Middleton has been
[55:06] there and in the in the trenches way
before I I I came into Cherry Hill
[55:10] community and have worked tirelessly.
There have been others who have been
[55:14] shephering this effort forward for
decades. And there is now time that the
[55:19] community will show that it all the
aspirations that these plans state they
[55:24] can do actually can happen with the
community at the hymn.
[55:30] » I'll yield if you have anything else to
say.
[55:33] » Great response.
>> I'd like to say something in rebuttal.
[55:36] » Sorry to say there's no rebuttal.
>> No rebuttal.
[55:38] » Yes. So, um, before you before you guys
continue, I have a a couple clarifying
[55:42] questions,
>> uh, regarding height.
[55:45] » Um, because this the height of this
building will be 45 ft. Um, is a
[55:51] conditional use required?
>> No. So, I think I misspoke or maybe my
[55:54] notes were out of date. So, I because I
was thinking about the old version of
[55:58] the older version of zoning code which
had up to 45 ft with conditional use
[56:02] approval. That's no longer the case.
It's 45 by right given given the width
[56:06] of the street. Okay,
>> they are going to 62 based
[56:10] [clears throat] on the measurement
methodology. So they the elevation
[56:13] showed basically from like the ground
looking up it'd be 45 ft but from the
[56:18] way the zoning code measures height it's
from the mean curb line. So the curb
[56:23] » to the top that's 62 ft. So that's what
requires the variance but
[56:28] » Mr. top explained like the rationale
which planning supports and staff would
[56:32] agree would make sense as a uh rationale
for why
[56:36] » and the residential portion is about is
about right correct
[56:39] » I'm sorry
>> the res don't need a correct so in fact
[56:42] the question I think might you can ask
to listenit is the traffic impact from
[56:47] the proposed conditional use which is
the educational facility vocational
[56:51] » yes that's where I'm going to get next
next so I want to learn more about uh
[56:56] the educational facility uh conditional
use. Uh
[57:02] namely uh just want to make sure that
this will be will you know fit under
[57:07] article 32 section 1 305 uh the two
require the two sort of requirements.
[57:12] Can you tell me more uh namely will
there be tuition charged to the
[57:15] students?
>> Um there I I don't have all the details
[57:18] but I believe yes. Okay. Um participants
will have to pay to get their
[57:21] certification
>> and what subjects will there be?
[57:25] » I'm sorry. Do you do you have clarity on
what subjects there may be?
[57:29] » So, it will be certifications to obtain
licenses in plumbing and in HVAC. I am
[57:34] not an expert in those areas. So, I feel
like I just want to make sure [laughter]
[57:37] that
>> make sure it's a vocational school. So,
[57:39] that's fine. Yes.
>> Um, do you know how many students or
[57:42] maximum amount of students?
>> We're not we're we're not looking to
[57:45] exceed between 15 to 20 students um per
session.
[57:48] » Okay. Per per se per uh session
>> session. It takes four years to obtain
[57:52] your certification. Up to four years to
obtain your certification. And how many
[57:56] staff for those students?
>> I don't have that specifics just yet.
[58:00] » Okay.
The zoning code imposes uh parking
[58:04] maximums
um for uh for vocational facilities. Uh
[58:10] I think it's one per 25 students uh and
one per 20 one per 20 staff. And so I
[58:16] just really want to nail nail down on
that to make sure that we weren't
[58:19] exceeding them. But it seems with 90
with uh 20 students well how about this?
[58:23] Will there be any parking spots set
aside for students uh as opposed to
[58:27] residents?
>> None reserved.
[58:29] » No, we're not having any reserved. Okay.
>> And the and the 90 to be clear is is
[58:32] within the maximum for the for the
residential so it can transfer over to
[58:37] the extent necessary.
>> Okay.
[58:40] » Um there is a
>> and again I would say the goal of this
[58:45] program is to target Cherry Hill
residents so we don't anticipate any
[58:49] additional traffic concerns. We'll
certainly open it up because we can't
[58:52] discriminate, but um we really are going
to um push Cherry Hill residents to
[58:57] benefit from this resource.
>> Uh you have a LOI with Affinity
[59:02] » uh to operate the educational facility.
Is that contingent upon any uh sort of
[59:09] entitlements or anything else financing?
>> It's that we finish the project
[59:13] certainly because they'll be moving into
the building.
[59:18] » Okay.
[59:23] Any other questions for the applicants?
[59:33] » As far as your
>> microphone,
[59:41] I got a big voice.
[59:48] » The intent with affinity. How strongly
do you believe you can uh attest to it
[59:54] actually happening?
>> Well, they have other facilities and
[59:58] other areas of um the state of Maryland
and they're looking to expand into
[1:00:02] Baltimore and so I actually um came
across them before they actually started
[1:00:06] their headway into Baltimore and got a
commitment to them to come into the
[1:00:10] point um project. So I have a very
strong indication that that will come to
[1:00:15] fruition.
Do you have any type of time frame when
[1:00:18] you think this thing could get wrapped
up?
[1:00:21] » So, the project has to go through uh um
project financing. And so, um I
[1:00:25] anticipate that we'll be submitting our
low-income housing tax credit
[1:00:29] application by the fall of this year to
get through CDA's process. Usually takes
[1:00:33] 12 to 16 months and then you'll get to a
financial closing um which will allow
[1:00:38] the start of construction. construction
is for this particular site and all of
[1:00:42] its challenges and moving dirt will take
approximately 16 months. So now we're in
[1:00:47] 2028.
Um uh and so we would think after that
[1:00:51] the building will be um placed in
service.
[1:00:56] » Okay. My only question is if you have
intentions on having affinity
[1:01:01] be a major part of this
>> Mhm.
[1:01:04] » then you can't get any type of u
settlement early
[1:01:09] in this process. There are a lot of
things that you're going to have to put
[1:01:12] in place to make either them or whoever
the next committed operator would be to
[1:01:19] to stand by. So we here may have to be
able to give you conditions that either
[1:01:26] affinity may not want to meet or the new
director may
[1:01:31] » have to meet. You understand what I'm
saying?
[1:01:33] » And that that's the only problem with a
situation of this type.
[1:01:39] » I think well I guess it's the board the
board can place conditions as you deem
[1:01:43] appropriate on the the proposed
conditional use approval. Um I think as
[1:01:49] um the applicant is stating yet they
don't have an official lease um with
[1:01:52] them and as you know the approval would
run with the land. So in a worst case
[1:01:58] scenario, a if affinity doesn't proceed,
there could be some other operator who
[1:02:03] could do conditional use or the
commercial vocational school. And maybe
[1:02:08] there's no problem with that, but that'd
be something to consider like if it's if
[1:02:12] there's a bad actor commercial
vocational school out there that you
[1:02:16] wanted to think about or avoid or have
some outside conditions on no operations
[1:02:20] after 10 p.m. or something, but then the
residents would be upstairs who would be
[1:02:25] impacted first. So they would be the
ones as a landlord would be worried
[1:02:28] about making sure that it's not going to
be disturbing to the residents who live
[1:02:32] upstairs. So maybe there's a natural
check there. But that would be something
[1:02:36] » that does get me. Um don't want to mess
that red contract up, right? So not too
[1:02:41] much riff raff. But um uh can you can
you I'm going to uh I think I heard
[1:02:47] earlier Mr. Mr. Hoffber that the hours
operation for the facility will be in
[1:02:50] the evening.
>> That that's the intent right now. We
[1:02:53] were just kind of confirming that that
at this point recognizing the reality of
[1:02:56] the situation.
We'd be hesitant to um
[1:03:01] to firmly say that 5:30 to 8:30 is the
exact time of operation. What we can say
[1:03:06] for sure is that the space um is kind of
designed for the number of people. Um
[1:03:13] the 15 to 20 students is uh in terms of
realistic operational
[1:03:20] uh capacity, that's that's where we are.
and and it might be that uh in two years
[1:03:26] affinity says well we'd like to open at
4:30 or something like that. Now the
[1:03:30] design of the program which would have
people in the field most of the time
[1:03:34] would make it such that yeah I mean it's
not a nineto-five traditional type of
[1:03:37] school. These are people who are here to
get their licenses in a certain type of
[1:03:40] trade field work is important. So, so
the actual onampus
[1:03:45] activity will both be small in quantity
because of the number of students and
[1:03:48] small in in operational hours because
because most of their time needs to be
[1:03:52] out in the field. Um but but it I did
say the hours I do think that
[1:03:57] realistically, you know, if you're if
you're considering conditions, we would
[1:04:00] be hesitant to stand so firmly on those
hours.
[1:04:04] So, so the reason I asked and um and I
want to get on the record is because you
[1:04:08] know one of the things that we have to
account for is traffic, intensity of
[1:04:12] traffic.
>> And so if you're saying that the the
[1:04:16] vocational school will be operating in
the evening when presumably the primary
[1:04:19] school will not be
>> open then that would mitigate any sort
[1:04:23] of like traffic
>> um intensity problems that we could have
[1:04:26] » right and that is the that is the intent
right now. Oh, and also just in terms of
[1:04:29] the scale, I mean, you're talking about
in total this this uh Papsco Point will
[1:04:35] have 120 residential units and we're
talking about 15 students, 15 and 20
[1:04:40] students, some of whom will be walking
from other points of Cherry Hill. So,
[1:04:43] » how many residential units?
>> Well, there's 80 in this phase and then
[1:04:46] the second phase would have 40. So, that
>> So, um so we do think
[1:04:51] » I'm not going to talk about seven. We we
on this phase 80 80 [laughter] units,
[1:04:55] right? 80 units. Okay.
>> Um
[1:04:57] » at scale,
we do hope that the board can recognize
[1:05:01] that it is a small impact of traffic.
>> And I will also add that um most of the
[1:05:06] pickup and drop off for the Cherry Hill
Elementary um middle school is on the
[1:05:10] other side. It doesn't affect Round View
Road at all.
[1:05:13] » Okay.
>> And and there has been a a a vocational
[1:05:19] or adult education school on this
premise. Yes.
[1:05:21] » Uh actively in the old Papskco
Elementary School. So that that those
[1:05:26] those two educational facilities have
operated in tandem without significant
[1:05:31] traffic.
>> You know how how long ago?
[1:05:33] » Uh uh I believe they occupied in 2020.
It was during co um when they started
[1:05:42] and they exited in 2023 because uh I
believe the heating system just
[1:05:48] completely died and it was no longer uh
attainable for them to continue to
[1:05:52] operate in that space. And it was the
adult high school as well as they also
[1:05:56] had several um nonprofit organizations
that support different um efforts in
[1:06:02] Sherry Hill also sharing that space.
>> Okay. Um
[1:06:08] get Oh, Moabed. Uh I I understand that
Moab may occupy certain portion Yes. of
[1:06:14] the space also. This was conversations
that I've had with Senator Ferguson's
[1:06:18] office um about how do we um when we
we're going to utilize the adult high
[1:06:22] school of how to create in a nice
continuum of um education. Um uh they
[1:06:28] have a current South Baltimore location
that's grossly underutilized and they
[1:06:33] thought this location could be an ideal
location to um increase those numbers as
[1:06:37] well as help support the project. And
so, um, although the adult high school
[1:06:41] has now found a permanent home somewhere
else, um, I was being intentional of
[1:06:45] trying to find something, um, to put in
it space that again addressed the social
[1:06:49] economic determin. And I feel like this
is actually a better, um, actually fit
[1:06:53] because now you have people who are
getting certifications and are now ready
[1:06:57] for placement to be placed in jobs.
>> In terms of scope, that would include
[1:07:01] one or two staff members from the
mayor's office. Absolutely. And how far
[1:07:04] along had those discussions? Is there
any LOI or any binding agreement
[1:07:07] between?
>> Not not at this moment. now.
[1:07:09] » Okay. Um,
>> just on that point because the staff
[1:07:12] were talking about that issue and we
interpret it as what the applicants did
[1:07:17] with one or two staff because if it were
a full-blown office, it would be a
[1:07:20] separate use that would require
approval. It' be a government facility,
[1:07:24] right,
>> or office.
[1:07:26] » So, that would be a separate use if it
becomes its own thing. But if it's just
[1:07:29] having space within the vocational
school to have desks, that would be
[1:07:34] still
>> the vocational school.
[1:07:36] » Yeah. fit into these standards for
accessories.
[1:07:40] » Okay, so we got two variances before us.
Uh
[1:07:46] how will uh the proposed building's
height compared to the existing
[1:07:50] building?
>> Um
[1:07:54] I believe it would be a couple feet
taller.
[1:07:57] » Yeah,
>> less than five feet.
[1:08:00] » Uh
>> we don't have exact measurements of the
[1:08:02] of the existing building.
>> Okay. But I do remember early on when we
[1:08:06] um was doing that analysis, we were also
looking at that because we wanted to
[1:08:10] think about impacts um far as a
community because I've been doing this a
[1:08:14] long time and I know light becomes a
challenge, but it's not it is slightly
[1:08:18] taller but it's not terribly taller than
the existing structure at this highest
[1:08:22] point.
>> Okay.
[1:08:25] Uh
[1:08:29] DOT asks you guys to dedicate a portion
of your property. Uh is that an easement
[1:08:33] or
>> to be clear they have not they have not
[1:08:36] yet asked in our experience and in
Kimley Horn the the civil engineers
[1:08:41] experience they will ask
>> okay
[1:08:43] » that that is an expectation
>> and I have already given agreement to
[1:08:47] Kimley Horn that if that is asked that
I'm perfectly fine in
[1:08:50] » so you guys have a verbal nothing
binding
[1:08:53] » it hasn't gone through DOT review yet
it's it's something that was anticipated
[1:08:57] during the site plan um um approval
process that that would be a request
[1:09:02] And so it was um I had already we
already talked about it and I said it
[1:09:05] it's reasonable. It's not something that
I haven't seen in development before.
[1:09:11] » Any other questions of the applicant?
[1:09:18] » Are we ready to discuss?
Um
[1:09:25] I'd like to propose that we adopt the
findings in the plan in the planning
[1:09:28] department's memo. Um, I guess beginning
with the conditional use, um, you know,
[1:09:34] after hearing testimony and reviewing
their application, um, you know, I do
[1:09:39] not believe that operating a, uh,
educational facility, uh, of this
[1:09:46] magnitude, this location will lead to
any adverse consequences that would go
[1:09:51] above and beyond what we would expect of
a uh, vocational school anywhere else
[1:09:56] uh, within the zoning district. And so
for that reason, I am a yes for that
[1:10:00] conditional use.
[1:10:10] » Can I open it back up to a question?
>> Sure. Sure.
[1:10:13] » Only because of my lack of knowledge am
I asking this question. Could you in
[1:10:19] simplistic terms explain to me what the
Enough Act
[1:10:24] actually entails? So the enough act was
um a initiative by Governor Moore to
[1:10:30] address childhood poverty and he was
targeting specifically communities of
[1:10:35] color that has been historically um
disinvested or um are still dealing with
[1:10:41] past discriminatory housing policies.
And so it's a statewide initiative. Um
[1:10:46] Cherry Hill was adopted as an enough
community. And so there was an
[1:10:50] investment by Maryland Department of
Housing um of $3 million that was
[1:10:55] provided to the Cherry Hill um strong um
organization which is the community
[1:11:01] quarterback under the purpose bill
model. Um and they from there they um
[1:11:07] spread out those funds among various
stakeholders doing things that address
[1:11:10] childhood poverty. So it could have been
workforce development training, it could
[1:11:14] have been youth empowerment activities,
it could have been helping to build
[1:11:17] capacities of organizations and other
programs.
[1:11:20] » So the vehicles available that have
already been put in place and are
[1:11:24] currently operative, I guess you would
call it that can support your situation.
[1:11:30] » Absolutely. I think there that the state
recognized that this community has has
[1:11:34] had a long history of disinvestment and
so there is an an intentional target to
[1:11:39] try to bring resources to this
community. I would say that Senator
[1:11:44] Ferguson was very instrumental in
introducing the purpose bill model which
[1:11:49] was um a model out of uh Atlanta,
Georgia. The organization actually took
[1:11:54] over um a I don't remember all the
facts. Oh my gosh. But um I believe it
[1:11:59] was a very large um public housing or
low-income community and they um operate
[1:12:06] under three um three pillars um cradle
to college educational pipeline um
[1:12:14] workforce development strategies and
overall community health.
[1:12:17] » I think I write your [laughter]
ma'am have you I'm sorry I ma'am could
[1:12:23] you please stand and be sworn because I
think you just spoke and that was on the
[1:12:26] record. Oh, I apologize.
[1:12:31] » My name is Tracy Garrett. T R A C E Y.
Last name G A R R E.
[1:12:36] » Thank you.
>> Um and so the whole purpose is to help
[1:12:40] to change the social economic um
conditions of a um historically
[1:12:46] impoverished community to help um
improve social economic determinance. So
[1:12:51] there's intentional um push by the
community to help improve educational
[1:12:55] outcomes. So they have um various
nonprofits that work with the schools to
[1:12:59] help um with school performance and
address um matters that impede children
[1:13:04] from getting to school providing
afterchool programs to help with um
[1:13:08] academic outcomes um and support. Uh
there's certainly um indivi entities in
[1:13:14] Cherry Hill that helps with workforce
development um outcomes, providing soft
[1:13:18] skills, providing job opportunities and
training. This all of this is just to
[1:13:22] complement what's already going on on
multiple fronts. Understanding that not
[1:13:27] everyone's going to have the desire to
want to get a certification in the
[1:13:30] construction trade. There's um efforts I
believe with Harbor Hospital to try to
[1:13:34] improve um health outcomes as well. And
they're looking at um exploring
[1:13:39] opportunities um far as employment to
help folks become licensed um in in the
[1:13:44] medical profession as well. So there's a
multistrong approach um going on in this
[1:13:48] community. And so this is just to
complement some of the work that's on
[1:13:52] that's happening and to um certainly
spur additional physical economic
[1:13:57] development outside of just the
investments of the two 21st century
[1:14:00] schools and the health and wellness
center.
[1:14:04] » Thank you. Any other questions for the
applicants?
[1:14:10] » Um I believe we were um voting on the
conditional use. Um I am in favor of the
[1:14:17] conditional use. also
[1:14:22] in favor.
[1:14:32] » I agree. I'm in favor.
>> I recuse.
[1:14:36] » I recuse.
>> Oh, so moving to first the height
[1:14:40] variance. Um the applicant has stated
that due to the topography uh and the
[1:14:45] slope of the of the building uh although
the building is 40 ft 45 ft from uh
[1:14:51] ground to uh roof line uh
from mean curb height uh to building
[1:14:59] height uh there's the need for a 17t I
believe variance
[1:15:05] um I believe do believe that these are
sort of that this is a issue that is
[1:15:11] caused caused by sort of not by any um
behavioral actions by the advocates
[1:15:17] themselves but due to the physical
conditions of the site itself. Um and so
[1:15:23] strict compliance with the code will
require them uh to build uh a smaller
[1:15:28] building which will allow much less uh
density on the site than as is by right
[1:15:35] which may sort of make the project not
nonviable. And so uh
[1:15:41] adopting the findings of the planning
department, I am a yes uh for the
[1:15:46] variance uh for height
[1:15:56] » also. Yes.
[1:16:00] » Yes.
[1:16:07] That's three. Do it.
>> Yep. And then the last one was a
[1:16:10] setback.
>> Set back. Um
[1:16:16] there's a variance of let me see how
many feet nine 7 feet
[1:16:23] 11T I believe
>> in the required 20.
[1:16:26] » Yeah. So 9 foot variance is required. Uh
there's only 11 foot setback here and
[1:16:31] that is uh caused by a uh
a need to dedicate at least a portion of
[1:16:40] the land uh to the public rideway to
allow a safe uh pedestrian uh
[1:16:47] environment. Uh that land will be
dedicated to department of
[1:16:50] transportation. And so this is sort of
an exceptional circumstance uh that is
[1:16:54] entirely caused uh by the code and not
by the actions themselves. It is a
[1:16:58] desire of the applicant uh to ensure
that the safety of pedestrians and those
[1:17:03] who uh both live in the community uh and
who may be students there are able to
[1:17:09] access it safely and so adopting the
findings in the planning department. I'm
[1:17:15] uh a yes to the uh front yard uh
setbacks
[1:17:26] » also. Yes. To the front yard setback.
>> I'm in agreement. Yes.
[1:17:32] » I think that's all three. Thank you guys
for
[1:17:42] » So, I'm going to have to step away at
2:30.
[1:17:44] » Two more minutes.
>> In 2:30.
[1:17:46] » Oh, yeah. Well, we can start. We should
be able to get through the other one.
[1:17:49] » Yeah. Quickly.
>> We'll take [clears throat] a brief
[1:17:52] pause, rush from Brit, and go off the
record.
[1:18:24] Oh, the cherry. Yeah.
[1:18:29] » I don't think so.
[1:18:40] » Well, I've already uh blown blown the
record unfortunately.
[1:18:45] » So, but I but I will get us uh I had
that 2:30 call.
[1:18:51] » You ready to go?
[1:18:56] What are we thinking? Are we thinking
>> short?
[1:19:14] » Yeah, we lost.
>> Too bor. [laughter]
[1:19:20] » Wait a minute. I think one of those
interns was knocking doors. Was he
[1:19:24] running for state committee?
[1:19:29] » I thought they were part of your project
and I was like,
[1:19:32] » "No, you were like very interested."
[laughter]
[1:19:49] » Mr. Clark
[1:20:19] That's fantastic.
[1:20:30] That's why I was like, let's make it
quick. So,
[1:20:34] » you're ready.
>> I know you got it in
[1:20:39] [laughter]
recovering from my illness.
[1:20:41] » You're okay. there.
[1:20:48] [laughter]
[1:20:51] » Like this is my nap time.
>> I know. I know.
[1:20:57] » I knew too much. I was starting to feel
better.
[1:20:59] » Really?
>> That's That's how they get you.
[1:21:02] » It is how they get right.
>> Yeah. I thought I was right. the day.
[1:21:05] » I had like social thing on Saturday and
then I deep cleaned my house on Sunday
[1:21:10] and then I had a full day at work
yesterday.
[1:21:16] » Yesterday was really hard. I [laughter]
had like a four o'clock meeting and it
[1:21:20] was virtual and internal and they were
editing a document in real time.
[1:21:26] » Wow.
>> And then discussing where in the
[1:21:28] SharePoint it should be filed
>> and I was whiteing it because I couldn't
[1:21:32] leave. I was already at the office. So
it wasn't like I could like
[1:21:44] » last last day
[1:21:48] still make a late lunch
[1:21:52] time.
[1:21:56] » So you said you're ready to start.
>> Yes, sir. We can go back on the record.
[1:22:00] Mhm.
[1:22:05] back on the record.
>> Now recalling case 2687
[1:22:09] 28 26 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Um
Rosenberg Martin is here to represent
[1:22:13] the appellent NHP Foundation. First we
will hear from planning and staff.
[1:22:19] 2826 Westwood Avenue is appeal number
260087.
[1:22:25] Uh the proposal is for a conditional use
for a community center as along with
[1:22:29] some variances for a shed and a parking
space.
[1:22:33] Uh it's currently eight rowhouse style
lots that the applicant proposes to
[1:22:38] consolidate. Uh they're all unimproved.
Uh the requested conditional use again
[1:22:43] for a community center would serve uh as
the clubhouse for a new development
[1:22:47] which planning is in support of that
conditional use for the reasons outlined
[1:22:51] in the staff report. There are two
variances being requested for a shed
[1:22:55] that will be in the rear of the
property. Um the zoning code under table
[1:23:00] 15601 allows a shed as a permitted
encroachment if the shed is 120 square
[1:23:06] ft or smaller. In this case it'll be 240
ft. Uh therefore it's not allowed as a
[1:23:12] permitted encroachment and variances are
required.
[1:23:15] Uh it'll project to within 10 feet of
the rear lot line where 25 feet is
[1:23:20] required and it will also project to
within 8.2 of the interior side lot line
[1:23:26] where 10 ft is required. Uh we
understand planning understands that
[1:23:29] there are some trees on the site in the
rear of the property uh that would need
[1:23:34] to be eliminated to meet the setback
variances. Um so because of that
[1:23:39] condition planning is in support of the
those two variances for the shed and the
[1:23:43] conditional use. This is not addressed
in the staff report but we had one more
[1:23:48] variance request uh come in which is for
as you can see on the site plan a single
[1:23:54] ADA parking space that's forward of the
building. uh that's needing a variance
[1:23:58] under section section 1641
uh B1 which both prohibits parking in
[1:24:05] the required front yard and prohibits
parking forward of the front building
[1:24:09] line. Uh generally planning is
unsupportive of uh variances on outright
[1:24:14] prohibitions but in this case again
because of the wooded condition in the
[1:24:18] rear and because this would just be a
single ADA parking space we are no
[1:24:22] objection on that variance. So, support
of conditional use rear yard and
[1:24:27] interior sideyard variances for the shed
and no objection on the front parking
[1:24:31] spot variances. Thank you. Uh, Mrs. Ree,
could you please have your uh client
[1:24:35] stand and be sworn?
[1:24:43] » Do you swear or under the penalty of
tell the truth, the whole truth, and
[1:24:48] nothing but the truth in the testimony
that you're about to give?
[1:24:51] » I do.
>> You spell and state your your last name.
[1:24:54] » Gabbor Happy. G A B R I E L L E H A P I
[1:25:03] » M Re Let's really focus on these
variances today.
[1:25:06] » We'll hit them all. We'll hit them all
hopefully quickly. Um Drew Tilden,
[1:25:10] Rosenberg, Martin Greenberg. Uh for the
record, I'm here on behalf of the
[1:25:14] applicant and I am joined today by Miss
Gabrielle Hy who is a representative of
[1:25:19] the applicant, the NHP Foundation. Um
thank you Mr. Walker for a very thorough
[1:25:25] presentation. Um you have outlined the
variances specifically. So I'll just go
[1:25:30] a little bit into the existing
conditions of the site and then uh the
[1:25:34] proposal. So this property is comprised
of eight vacant lots. And then there's
[1:25:38] also a paper alley and a portion of 1700
Gertrude. I've included um a tax plat.
[1:25:45] Oh, it actually is not outlined on this
tax plat. If you look to the north of
[1:25:50] those row home lots, it's that paper
alley above it. And then there's also
[1:25:54] that tiny section of um the adjacent lot
that is the Dukeland Town Homes lot
[1:25:59] that's going to be subdivided and then
all consolidated together.
[1:26:04] Um so this is again it's located at the
end of Westwood Avenue and it abuts the
[1:26:08] existing Dukeland Towns public housing
development. Um it's presently
[1:26:12] unimproved and it's heavily wooded. Um,
I think we can see that to some extent
[1:26:17] in that photo, but I also have some
aerial images that are um when the trees
[1:26:22] are in bloom that gives you a little bit
of a better sense in uh the materials I
[1:26:26] passed out. Um, with the exception
though of one area, there's a small
[1:26:30] paved area in the rear of this property.
Um, and that's important because that is
[1:26:35] going to be where the shed is going. Uh
so the applicant in terms of this
[1:26:39] project is in partnership with HABC
renovating the adjacent um Dupland
[1:26:44] public housing development and then in
addition to that they're revating
[1:26:48] renovating the subject site and
constructing a clubhouse. This clubhouse
[1:26:52] is going to be exclusively for the use
of Dukeland residents. It is going to be
[1:26:56] um uh for all intents and purposes um a
community um center for the Dupland
[1:27:03] residents. Um, in addition to that,
there's going to be a play area behind
[1:27:07] the community center. I've included
renderings of that in the file. Um, and
[1:27:11] then there's going to be, as stated, a
shed that is going to be 12 by 20 ft
[1:27:16] that is going to be in the rear portion
of the property where there's already um
[1:27:20] a paved area. And then, uh, there's also
going to be one parking space in front
[1:27:25] of the building. And that one parking
space is the handicap space. The site is
[1:27:30] actually predominantly designed um to be
walkable since it is going to be
[1:27:34] exclusively for the adjacent Dukeland
residents. Uh but the handicap space is
[1:27:38] placed in a location um where it is
going to allow those residents who can't
[1:27:42] walk to the center uh to still um
accessibly um take advantage of the
[1:27:47] amenity. In terms of outreach, the
applicant has shared its plans with
[1:27:51] Councilman Torrance and they plan again
along with HABC to keep an open line of
[1:27:56] communication with the community. Uh I
have on page three outlined uh the
[1:28:01] specific relief requested. Uh there's
the front yard setback which is.7 feet
[1:28:06] instead of the 20 ft required. We have
10 ft provided for the rear yard instead
[1:28:11] of 25. Uh 8.2 ft for the interior side
instead of 10. And then again that
[1:28:16] variance uh to permit the um off-
streetet parking in front of the
[1:28:21] building line. Uh I have outlined all of
the conditional use uh considerations
[1:28:27] that you all are required to consider as
you find appropriate thoroughly in the
[1:28:32] memorandum that I submitted. Um but in
the interest of time I'm going to move
[1:28:36] toward um the required findings. Um, so
first of all, there's no facts or
[1:28:40] circumstances that would indicate that
the establishment, location,
[1:28:44] construction, maintenance, uh, or
operation of this clubhouse, uh, the
[1:28:48] community center is going to be
detrimental to or endanger the public
[1:28:52] health, safety, security, general
welfare, or morals, um, much less
[1:28:56] anything that would indicate that this
use is going to have a negative impact
[1:28:59] above and beyond what is inherent to a
community center at um, any other
[1:29:03] location in the R six zoning district.
It's not procluded by any law and there
[1:29:08] are no facts or circumstances that would
indicate that the proposed center would
[1:29:12] be contrary to community interest and
certainly it will not be um contrary in
[1:29:17] any way that's above and beyond what's
inherent to such a use in the R six
[1:29:20] district. Um this approval is in harmony
with the purpose of the code and more
[1:29:25] specifically promoting and protecting
public health, welfare and quality of
[1:29:29] life. Um this is clearly going to
improve the quality of life of the Dupin
[1:29:32] residents. Um moving on to the
variances. So I think generally um the
[1:29:38] same argument applies to all of the
variances that we are requesting in
[1:29:42] terms of the uniqueness and practical
difficulty. Um so in terms of
[1:29:46] uniqueness, there's peculiar to
topography on this site. Unlike most
[1:29:51] sites in the R six district, it is
heavily forested and that limits
[1:29:55] locations where both the shed and this
handicap parking space can be placed. Um
[1:29:59] so this proposed location in terms of
the shed is on an existing paved area
[1:30:04] and then on top of that um the proposed
location of the off street parking space
[1:30:10] the handicaps parking space is in really
the only location that is compatible
[1:30:14] with both the topography and and
creating an accessible path um for those
[1:30:19] who are utilizing the handicap space. So
to require the applicant to comply with
[1:30:24] these setback requirements um would
really preclude the applicant from
[1:30:27] including these necessary maintenance
sheds and the necessary handicap parking
[1:30:32] space. Um so to require the strict
enforcement of the codes regulations
[1:30:37] would give rise to a practical
difficulty. Um I ask now I've outlined
[1:30:43] all of the supplemental findings in my
memo. I'm sure that they're also in the
[1:30:47] planning department's memo. So, in the
interest of time, um I will invite any
[1:30:52] questions that you all may have. Um and
again, I'm I'm happy to orally go
[1:30:55] through everything
>> and I just told Liam or Liam, I told
[1:31:01] Leland he can take his call and so I
don't want you to feel like you have to
[1:31:05] speak a mile a minute.
>> I [laughter] I totally appreciate that.
[1:31:09] » But you you covered that very clearly.
>> That's that's always the goal.
[1:31:13] » Um does anyone have any questions? put
the microphone on just in case you you
[1:31:18] ch Oh, thank you. Thank you.
>> Thanks.
[1:31:20] » Um
we can just go through one by one. Does
[1:31:24] anybody have any questions regarding
conditional use?
[1:31:30] » Does anybody have any question regarding
the front yard setback?
[1:31:48] And I appreciate Miss Tilden. This is
excellent.
[1:31:52] » Thank you.
>> So if you guys need this summarized in
[1:31:54] her packet, that first one um has them
all listed out with a summary if you
[1:31:58] need to refresh your memory.
[1:32:04] Any questions on any of the other
variants? Real yard set back. Interior
[1:32:08] sideyard set back.
[1:32:29] » And you did get to off streetet parking.
>> Yes.
[1:32:32] » That was quick. I was like,
>> we're just we're moving through today.
[1:32:36] » All right. Any other questions, Miss?
>> Questions?
[1:32:41] » Did you all have anything else that you
wanted to cover?
[1:32:44] » Nothing further. Thank you.
>> Okay.
[1:32:47] I'm just going to organize some of the
documents real quick.
[1:33:17] And Justin, you did not have a planning
memo or did I just like speed through
[1:33:21] that? You did.
>> Yeah. Okay, great.
[1:33:23] » It might not have made it into
>> It did not make it into the packet.
[1:33:26] That's what I wanted to just
>> It should be in the folder.
[1:33:30] » Got it. Thank you.
>> And there's a copy in the binder in
[1:33:34] which
>> before I said
[1:33:38] » adopt plannings findings. I just wanted
to read it.
[1:33:41] » And if I may, if we may, if you're
willing to want to adopt the findings
[1:33:47] submitted by applicant because I think
you mentioned one of the variances isn't
[1:33:51] in the staff report.
>> Yeah. I mean, you said it, Sunny. You
[1:33:56] said it was in
>> the uh planning memo. It should be in
[1:34:01] your binder. It's probably the first. It
was originally the first case, so it's
[1:34:05] probably under tab three or four.
>> Okay.
[1:34:07] » And then it's in the electronic folder
as well.
[1:34:10] » Thanks.
>> But just to address that point,
[1:34:12] planning's memo does not include uh the
variances required for the front parking
[1:34:18] spot, only for the shed and the
conditional use. So,
[1:34:20] » great. Thanks.
>> Those will be needed in addition to our
[1:34:22] findings.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[1:34:27] which is because they weren't in our
initial application. I want to clarify.
[1:34:31] » Got it.
[1:34:36] » I had to turn on my substitute chair hat
halfway through your [laughter] thing. I
[1:34:40] was like, "Okay."
Um, all right.
[1:34:52] All
[1:35:02] right. Seeing as there are no further
questions
[1:35:08] can go ahead and go to a vote.
[1:35:12] We'll start with conditional use
community center.
[1:35:18] All
[1:35:22] right. Based on the testimony from the
applicant, um I do not see any reason um
[1:35:29] not to approve the conditional use. Um
this use will not be any more
[1:35:34] detrimental to a similar use in the same
district. Um
[1:35:40] the nature of the proposed site
is great. Resulting traffic patterns
[1:35:46] won't be impacted in any negative way.
Nature of the surrounding area. Extent
[1:35:51] to which proposed use might impair its
present and future development.
[1:35:54] Proximity of dwellings, churches,
schools, public structures,
[1:35:57] accessibility of the premises to
emergency vehicles. Accessibility of
[1:36:00] light and air. Type and location of
adequate utilities. Preservation of
[1:36:04] cultural and historic landmarks.
Character of the neighborhood. Provision
[1:36:07] of the city's comprehensive master plan.
All approve optical standards of a code.
[1:36:11] The intent and purpose of the code. Any
matters considered by the general I do
[1:36:15] not see the following conditional use
proposed in conflict with any of those
[1:36:22] and um so I am a yes
>> also yes
[1:36:28] » also yes
[1:36:32] » right now we're going to go one by one
um each variance is that how you would
[1:36:36] like to do it
>> I mean the adopt
[1:36:40] » Miss Tilden made the point I think the
rationale is the same so if you're
[1:36:44] comfortable voting on all of them at one
time and for the reasons stated by
[1:36:47] applicant I can
>> draft a resolution.
[1:36:50] » Great. For the reasons stated by the
applicant, I propose um that we
[1:36:55] recommend the application for variance
of front yard setback, rear yard
[1:36:59] setback, interior sideyard setback, and
front yard off street parking. Um I am a
[1:37:04] yes.
>> Also a yes.
[1:37:09] Also a yes.
>> Yes.
[1:37:12] » All right. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you.
[1:37:14] » Thank you.
[1:37:20] » Are you all ready to go off the record?
>> We are ready.
[1:37:22] » You're off the record.
>> 12:40. I don't vote for the record.