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Good morning. Good morning. Good
morning, everyone.

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I am Councilwoman Felicia Porter
representing the 10th district and

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chairperson for the committee. Um, this
is a reminder to please turn off your

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cell phones. Um, today we have joining
us council members Odette Ramos from the

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14th district. And we also have some
wonderful interns um from John's Hopkins

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University and also from Talson
University today in the chambers. And

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then we also have several
representatives from the mayor's office

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and city council president and committee
staff is Margaret Kern. The committee is

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reconvening the hearing for legislative
oversight LO25-0024

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oversight of recovery homes and
substance abuse clinics and mental

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health substance abuse clinics in
Baltimore City. This is an opportunity

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for um council members and public to
further ask questions about ensuring

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that individuals in recovery have access
to highquality, safe and well-regulated

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recovery homes and substance abuse
clinics. This is also an opportunity to

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evaluate existing policies, access
provider accountability, and explore

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opportunities to enhance support systems
for individuals in recovery. This

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discussion will continue to prioritize
community concerns, patient safety, and

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equitable distribution of recovery
resources in the city. I'm now going to

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turn it over to our public testimony.
Um, for all that do not know, we have

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public testimony at the beginning of our
hearings because agencies I want you all

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to hear what some of the uh community
are going through so that you can alter

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your presentations um once you all have
the opportunity. So, we're going to now

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go into public testimony. We're going to
have Kim lead us into public testimony.

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You're going to have five minutes. And
so,

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we have a new technology in the chamber
today. Okay. And so you'll see on your

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deis, it's going to blink yellow when it
is um 15 seconds left. And so we just

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ask that you wrap up when you see the
blinking yellow light. All right.

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All right. Very good.

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And if and if you could tap your
microphone. Is it on?

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» Perfect. This echo. All right. Kim
Wyman. I'm president of Power Recovery

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Center. Delighted to be here. Thank you,
Chair Porter, for the opportunity to

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testify.
Lure is the foundation for protecting

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client safety and treatment quality,
which I'm sure you'll be discussing

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today. After lure, most systems can
count admissions, service delivered,

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discharges, and length of stay, and
other measures. Those measures matter,

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but they don't move from activity to
impact. They don't answer the harder

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question. After treatment, are people
safer, more stable, and experiencing a

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better quality of life? We need a
practical way to see the whole picture

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across all the varied fragmented
systems, not a monthly report, not a

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report a month later about some static
measure.

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We need to intervene earlier, improve
treatment, and make smarter public

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investments.
PRC is building a platform that connects

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those scattered and fragmented systems
into one usable longitudinal view of a

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client's recovery. Instead of looking
only at a treatment episode,

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PAL can now look at uh across systems
and across time. By this I mean we can

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examine Crisp ED and EMS and public
court involvement, the 12 months prior

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to treatment and the 12 months after
treatment as two key factors and two key

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systems to connect with treatment to
help us see whether treatment is

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changing health safety, stability, and
the quality of life of our clients over

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time.
Next, we're going to pilot primary care

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connection and housing stability because
we see those along the continuum as

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critical factors in quality of life for
our clients. A longitudinal view of all

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of the fragmented systems combined with
claims data and clinical data in an

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electronic health record can examine
outcomes in our system for an

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individual, for a group that's defined,
or for the larger system as a whole.

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This platform isn't just a management
tool for PAL. Let me be clear. We want

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to change public health. It's a working
model for treatment outcomes that

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provides intelligence that could help
communities move from struggling to

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count the basics to transparency across
multiple systems and services over a

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defined period of time. It can tell us
who may need help now, what providers

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can improve next, and whether people are
doing better over time. Again, we want

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to change public health, and we want to
ask for your partnership. Thank you.

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» Thank you so much, Kim. All right. Next,
we're going to have Jan Elyn.

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» I'm a little shorter.
Thank you. I apologize if I have to take

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sips of water. The air quality is not
helping my voice.

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[clears throat] My name is Jan Eland. I
am a resident of Brooklyn in Baltimore

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City. I am here on behalf of the
Brooklyn Curtis Bay community. Um we

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have uh recently gotten a group of
neighbors together regarding this

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problem and started a task force. Um and
we are looking of course at two things.

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The distribution of the recovery centers
and community concerns. One of our

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community members has written I think uh
an excellent set of comments that I

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would like to read.
[clears throat]

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This neighbor lives across the street
from Garrett Park, one of our parks, and

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immediately next to our library.
No one should have to feel that. Oops.

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Sorry, I'm starting with page two.
That's bad. In December 2023,

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I purchased my very first home in
Brooklyn, Maryland, Baltimore City. I

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was single, had no children, and was
incredibly proud and excited to become a

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homeowner. It was a milestone I had
worked hard to achieve. When I moved in,

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I felt hopeful about the future. My
block was quiet, my neighbors were

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friendly and respectful. Across the
street was a beautiful park right next

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door to a thriving Boys and Girls Club
and just steps away from the Baltimore

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City Library. As an educator, seeing
children, families, and community

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resources so close to my home made me
feel proud to become part of the

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neighborhood. Unfortunately, as winter
turned into spring and spring into

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summer, that sense of pride and security
began to disappear. I started witnessing

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drug transactions directly behind my
home. Some captured on my security

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cameras, others with my own eyes. I
watched individuals struggling with

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addiction gather in the alleyways, on
the sidewalks, on the steps of the Boys

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and Girls Club, and outside the library.
Sometimes they simply sat there. Other

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times, the effects of the drugs they
were using were heartbreaking to

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witness. I heard moaning, screaming,
crying, and watched people throw

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themselves into the street, roll on the
payment, and cry out for help. These are

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human beings in crisis, but they are
also cerating an environment where

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families no longer feel safe.
[clears throat]

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One evening, I came home to find someone
charging a phone using the electrical

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outlet on the front of my house. The
phone was sitting on my steps, blocking

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the entrance to my home. When I arrived,
the individual ran over and claimed it

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was his. I firmly but respectfully asked
him never to use my property again and

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to find somewhere else to charge his
phone. I recognized him as one of the

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many individuals battling addiction in
the neighborhood. The encounter shook

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me. It made me anxious every time I
leave my house wondering if someone

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would be waiting on my porch when I
returned. No homeowner should have to

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live with that level of uncertainty.
Then one morning I was leaving for work.

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I discovered my car had been broken
into. Personal belongings had been

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stolen. The electrical panel had been
removed as though someone was attempting

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to hotwire the vehicle. Thankfully, I
use a steering wheel lock, so they were

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unsuccessful in stealing it. After
reviewing my security footage, I watched

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multiple individuals, people I
recognized from my own neighborhood,

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take turns entering and searching my
car. The feeling of violation is

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difficult to put into words. Knowing
strangers had been inside my vehicle,

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not knowing what they touched or what
their intentions truly were, made me

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physical sick. It also forced me to ask
myself questions I never imagined asking

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after purchasing my first home. Do I
need a firearm to protect myself? If

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someone is willing to break into my car,
what is stopping them from trying to

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break into my home?

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No one should have to feel this way in a
place they work so hard to own. Today,

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there are 34 drug treatment and rehab
centers located within the Brooklyn,

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Brooklyn Park, and Curtis Bay
communities. 34. Let that sink in. As

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residents, we deserve answers.
How [clears throat] are these facilities

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regulated? Are they all meeting state
and federal standards? Are they

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providing effective treatment and
long-term recovery? or are they simply

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contributing to a revolving door that
leaves both clients and surrounding

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neighborhoods struggling? Residents
regularly witness drug dealers waiting

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in the alley behind Third and Horton
Avenue for methanone doses to wear off

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so they can sell drugs to vulnerable
individuals. How is this acceptable? How

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has this become normal?
[clears throat] I also have to ask our

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elected officials, why are there so many
treatment facilities concentrated in our

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communities? Why aren't these same
facilities distributed more equitably

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throughout surrounding areas, including
places like Annapolis, Canton, or other

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communities with the resources to help
share the responsibility. The people who

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live in Brooklyn, Brooklyn Park, and
Curtis Bay, matter. We are hardworking

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people. We are homeowners. We are
parents, grandparents, educators,

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veterans, and small business owners. We
work every day to provide for our

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families and invest in our community. We
deserve to feel safe when we walk

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outside, when our children play in the
park, and when we come home after a long

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day of work. This is not about lacking
compassion for those battling addiction.

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They deserve access to treatment,
dignity, and every opportunity to

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recover, but compassion for those
struggling with addiction should never

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come at the expense of the safety,
peace, and quality of life of the

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residents who call these neighborhoods
home. I will continue standing alongside

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my neighbors and speaking up for our
community because we deserve better. So

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I ask our elected leaders and decision
makers, what are your solutions? Please

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don't tell us nothing can be done
because of laws and regulations.

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Communities across the country have
found ways to balance treatment

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accountability and neighborhood safety.
We deserve that same commitment. The

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people of Brooklyn, Brooklyn Park, and
Curtis Bay have waited long enough.

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» [clears throat]
>> That is one of my neighbors. I have

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comments from another neighbor, but I
see I have 56 seconds. Um, so I will

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just stress uh the 34 drug treatment
centers. Apparently, the state of

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Maryland is not aware there are 34.
Their census doesn't seem to include

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them. And the last time they testified
before this committee, they came up with

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six. And we having eyes can see 34.
Um [clears throat] the community

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concerns of course are one particular
center 800 patients per day coming into

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our community many coming from outside
and it's next to the park one block from

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an elementary school and half a block
from a high drug traffic intersection.

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We ask that the city council and our
elected officials take action with

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respect to these problems. Thank you.
>> Thank you Jan. All right. Is there

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anyone else that would like to testify
today? Vin McCormack.

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» Good morning, Madam Chair, and
[clears throat] fellow attending members

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uh of city council. My name is Vim
McCormack. Uh I'll Is it three minutes?

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Three minutes. Okay.
>> It's a great honor to be down here to

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talk about recovery houses in Baltimore
City. I'm going to make an admission uh

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before the council. Uh I've been
operational

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since 2019.
uh I took some advice, some suggestions

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from some fellow providers who had a
housing element attached to them. Uh so

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I opened up some recovery houses and we
were 2.1

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and uh OP and IOP initially. Uh I
learned after a few years that I was out

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of order. In fact, uh, Optum at the time
had set out put out a, uh, an alert that

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if you were operating in 2.1 IOP, you
were not supposed to have housing

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attached.
Now, I can tell you that

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many providers who have IOP have housing
attached. Of course, I won't say their

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names because they say snitches get
stitches. But I'll tell you what I did

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was because I sought
to be in order and do what's expected of

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me as a provider. I took the time, the
money, and the effort to go and get 3.1

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and 3.3 residential treatment, which is
what's supposed to happen.

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» So, we went ahead and did that. Um, and
we also took the time I was I was not

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advised by some of the fellow providers
uh that I took uh suggestions from that

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you're supposed to go down to the permit
office and get reasonable accommodations

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through those wonderful folks and they
come out and do a proper inspection and

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then at which you can operate uh as an
entity having more than four unrelated

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people in your house. I didn't know
that. I was taking suggestions from some

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people who was doing it before me. What
does that say?

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That says you got to be careful where
you get your resources from and your

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information. So I can tell you that
since that time I take great pains to

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make sure that the houses we have
currently recovery houses in east and

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west Baltimore are residential
properties meaning they're under the

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residential license uh under Caroline
and BHA. They also have taken we've

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taken the time to go through the proper
process to get reasonable accommodations

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through the permit office. Now I'm I'm
really glad that we're having this

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conversation. We're going to have I
think we're going to have to have more

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than this meeting T Porter because it's
it's a broad it's something that's

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happening. You and I talk about it quite
a bit. So I appreciate the effort uh and

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just putting the spotlight on it because
it starts and ends with the provider. If

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you're in the neighborhood, you have
recovery house.

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» The neighborhood and I appreciate this
lady sharing. The neighborhood shouldn't

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know. I think that you're you should
your footprint should be liked and it

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should make the you should make that
neighborhood better because you're

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there, not worse. Thank you for the
time. Thank you so much, Vinn.

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All right. Does anybody else would like
to testify before we transition into

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agency reports?
>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

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» Hello. My name is Tanya Richardson.
>> Yes, ma'am. If you can pull the mic

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down, please.
>> Yes. My name is Tanya Richardson and I

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um am administrative director for a
behavioral health program. Um the change

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came about the housing. When a change
came about the housing, I have been down

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to housing on Fed Street plenty of
times. The application is so complicated

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sometimes and it's no help. They say
that they help you. They give you a

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packet. They highlight some stuff. if I
go through it and then the packet

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doesn't even look like what's on the
screen and then you wait too late for

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the special accommodation and then they
cancel it then you have to go back down

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there. I feel like if we're going to
follow the law that maybe we should get

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some support. It's no one down there
that's going to do the application. I'm

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not familiar with the application. So, I
do the best that I can and the one

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application that I keep trying to do
keep getting cancelled because I don't

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know exactly how to fill all the
information out

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» and I think they give you like two days
to finish the special accommodation that

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they don't even tell you that you have
to do. You just keep checking the email

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and then all of a sudden it pops up. Oh,
I have a special accommodation. I think

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that it's like
helping some individuals to feel

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defeated in the situation when they're
trying to do the right thing.

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» So that's
>> No, I appreciate that. I appreciate that

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an aspect and and just to you know, I've
been on the side of being a consultant

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for for many uh clinics and so one one
of the thing that I encourage is one to

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get a mentor. uh getting with
like-minded people um within the

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industry that can help you kind of
navigate, but then also um making sure

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that you are um you're crossing your
tees and dotting your eyes because

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unfortunately
uh lack of knowledge or lack of support

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is by no means any type of um excuse for
not following the law. And so, you know,

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we we have that built in. We're going to
be, you know, sharing some of that

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technical assistance because I hear that
quite often. um and you shouldn't have

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to hire a very expensive consultant to
um provide that technical assistance for

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you. So, totally agree with you. Um and
I look forward if you know I'll stay

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after the hearing and I look forward to
helping where I can.

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» Okay.
>> All right. Thank you so much, ma'am.

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» All right. We're going to now turn it
over to BHSB for your presentation.

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» Great. Thanks, Councilwoman. Good
morning, everyone. Uh, council, uh,

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committee members, madam chair, for the
record, my name is Dan Rabbit. I'm the

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policy director at Behavioral Health
System Baltimore. It's good to be with

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you.

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Um, so what I want to do today is go
over just sort of the the framework and

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the regulations that govern substance
use disorder clinics and recovery homes

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in the city uh, and in Maryland. share
just some updates from some that have

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occurred since the last time I came and
um you answer any questions that folks

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have. Um before I get into my
presentation, I I do just want to um

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share you might have seen a article in
the Baltimore banner like last week um

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news around budget cuts that were coming
to Baltimore. Um and so I just wanted to

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share that um that is happening. Uh it's
across the state. It's not just

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Baltimore. Um BHA, the behavioral health
administration shared that all local

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behavioral health authorities need to
cut uh 13% from their grants and

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operations. So that is happening. Um we
are working you know ultimately BHA

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makes the decision. We are working to
develop recommendations on where we

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think that uh those cuts can be made. Uh
but no decisions have been made at this

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time. We're happy to come back uh in a
you know two months or something to

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share where things landed if that would
be of interest.

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Um but that's not exactly what we're
talking about today. Just wanted to put

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that out there first. Um where should I
point it?

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Sorry.

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Could Are you able to advance it? Can I
just ask the Okay, just since got

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technical difficulties.

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00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:53,600
Yep. Yes. The next slide, please.
Um, just as a reminder, behavioral

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health system Baltimore has been around
since 1986. We merged uh with the

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substance uh use system in 2013 and have
been the local behavioral health

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authority since then. We're an
independent nonprofit uh that serves in

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that role. Next slide, please. Um local
behavioral health authorities uh fulfill

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a number of functions. We manage public
funds. We contract with providers to

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provide mental health and substance
services, provide public education on

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behavioral health, um and oversee the
system. and um providers to some extent.

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Next slide, please.
And so want to go over substance use

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disorder programs and recovery
residences. Those are two separate

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things. Um and so it's important to keep
that in mind. It's a little technical.

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Members of the community, you know, may
not be able to tell the difference

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between one and the other, but regul
from a regulatory perspective, they're

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two separate types of programs. Next
slide, please.

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So, substance use disorder clinics must
be licensed by the Maryland Department

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of Health. They must uh obtain an
agreement to cooperate with the local

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behavioral health authority. And um they
are regulated by uh COMAR 1063.

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Um and they're traditionally what you
think of when you think of like clinical

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treatment for substance use disorder. We
have outpatient programs, we have

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residential programs, we have opioid
treatment programs, which often called

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methadone clinics. Um, and so all of
those clinics, we know where all of

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those clinics are. They have a license
with the state if they are billing

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Medicaid for any services and they have
an agreement to cooperate with us. Um

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and so we have a better sense of where
these programs are and um you more

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access to to what um to what sort of
services are being provided there. Uh

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next slide.
um certain programs uh psych uh psych

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rehabilitation programs, PRPs,
um substance use partial hospitalization

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programs, PHPs, and substance use
intensive outpatient programs, IOPS have

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had a pause on new enrollments with
Medicaid for those three provider types.

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That pause has been in effect since July
1st, 2024 and was recently extended

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through December 31st, 2026. So that's
two and a half years of a pause that the

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state has uh put in effect and gotten
permission from the federal government

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to put in effect to try to figure out
what's going on with these sorts of

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programs and uh put in place new
regulations to address concerns about um

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you know a proliferation of these types
of programs and a big increase in

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spending and reimbursement for these
sorts of programs. Um and some things

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00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:58,960
have been put in place and uh you know
we hope that they will help kind of uh

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prevent so many of these sorts of
programs from opening up. Next slide

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please.
Recovery residences on the other hand

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are not clinical treatment. They do not
need to receive a license from BHA. They

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do not need an agreement to cooperate
with us. Um they can uh receive

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certification from the state. Um but
that is a a less rigorous process than

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lensure and they don't have to and also
like at the end of the day a recovery

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residence is just a house. Um clinical
treatment is not being provided. They

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00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:42,000
may market themselves as a safe and
appropriate place for uh people early in

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recovery. Um but it's essentially just a
house. And um if they want to receive

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funding from the state, they need to be
certified. And certified recovery

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residences do receive an inspection from
the state um every year or two depending

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on the circumstances. Um but they are
sort of um a parallel thing to licensed

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uh clinical substance use treatment.
Um next slide please.

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One thing just I wanted to lift up is
that there is a new we have sort of

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rebranded a existing program. It was
called the substance use crisis

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00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:29,360
stabilization center. It is now called
the substance use urgent care center to

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00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:35,440
better align sort of the nomenclature
and the regulations that exist in the

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state. Um this uh urgent care center uh
accepts walk-ins. It's open 24/7 and

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this is where someone can go who needs
immediate support with a substance use

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need. They can go they can uh receive,
you know, meals somewhere place safe to

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stay, referrals to ongoing treatment. Um
and so we just want to let you all know

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that that exists. That is a a licensed
program um and a really important, you

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00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:09,840
know, kind of component to the continuum
of services we provide. Next slide.

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Um, one of the main things the state is
doing to try to address some of the

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concerns around PHPs, PRPs, and IOPS is
updating the Comar 1063 regulations.

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Next slide, please.
These regulations uh govern lensure and

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accountability and oversight for uh the
public behavioral health system. Um, and

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00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,919
the revisions are putting in place a
number of new expectations,

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new tools for system accountability, and
they also require all recovery

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residences to get certified. So, we're
excited about this. Um, and, um, you

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know, it's been an ongoing process. It's
been going on since, uh, again, July

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00:26:49,919 --> 00:27:00,159
2024. Next slide, please.
Um, you know, just looking through the

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timeline, um, an official draft was
issued in May of 2025.

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Um, there were a lot of concerns about
that draft and then the state rescended

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00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:14,640
the those draft regulations and then
worked more intently with uh

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00:27:11,679 --> 00:27:20,799
stakeholders to develop sort of a new
draft. A new draft was um has been

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shared and updated over the last you
know uh year. And um next slide please.

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And at this stage we are happy to say
that the the most recent draft was

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00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:36,159
shared with the committee for
administrative executive and legislative

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00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:40,799
review uh at the state level at the in
the state legislature. AALR. This is

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00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:47,440
sort of the first like the step that
happens before draft rags are published

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00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:51,200
in the register. um they must be
submitted at least 15 days before

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00:27:49,679 --> 00:27:58,320
publication.
So they were submitted July 10th last

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00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:03,520
week. So maybe 2 3 weeks from then uh we
might see them published in the register

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00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:08,480
at which point there is a 30-day comment
period and then um the formal

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00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:14,960
promulgation. So we might see these new
regs in place done and and in effect

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00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:19,919
maybe two months from now which is nice.
We've been on quite a quite a journey.

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So so that's some news to to share share
with the committee.

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Next slide please.
Um, and I just want to go over once

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again like the provider accountability
um, functions that BHSB provides. And

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00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:40,720
um, again just really emphasize our our
interest in partnering with the

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00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:45,679
community, with this committee, with the
city council to make sure that any

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00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,200
provider in Baltimore City that is
licensed and billing Medicaid and

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serving our residents is providing
highquality services. you we want to be

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a partner and we want to you know help
however we can to make sure that that's

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occurring. Um next slide please.
Um

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00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:10,880
the main again we um conduct regular
audits and site visits to certain

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00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:16,720
provider types. Um we work with the
state on corrective action plans,

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00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:20,399
performance improvement plans. Um we
have to get a or providers have to get

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00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:26,480
an agreement to cooperate with us before
they can seek lensure and we track and

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00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:30,480
respond to critical incidents and formal
complaints.

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00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Next slide please.
Um we also have a provider relations

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00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:41,760
manager and team that you know goes
beyond reactions to issues to providing

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00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:48,480
best practices and meeting with licensed
providers a quarterly basis. We um

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00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:54,720
attempt to meet directly with any
organizations seeking lensure. Uh we

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00:29:51,360 --> 00:30:01,360
provide trainings um and update the
provider network on any any changes that

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00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:05,440
are coming. Uh next slide please.
And you know the one thing we want to

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00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:10,320
emphasize with this group and with any
community members is that if there is a

364
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:14,240
concern about a licensed behavioral
health provider, please submit a

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00:30:11,919 --> 00:30:18,640
complaint. We have a team that responds
to those complaints and investigates

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00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:23,360
them. You can scan that QR code. You can
also go to our website. You can also

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00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:27,520
email any member of the BHSB team for
support and we will enter that

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00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:33,760
complaint. It will be investigated and
any findings will be kind of sent up the

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00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:38,880
chain to the state which is where uh any
uh corrective action would occur. Um and

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00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:42,240
so so that's like the main like one of
the main ways that we get information

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00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:47,520
about what's going on in the community.
So we encourage uh folks to use that

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00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:51,440
that complaint portal. Next slide,
please.

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And so that's sort of just an overview
of our role um and what's what's been

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00:30:54,399 --> 00:31:00,159
going on and some news since the last
time we we came to present. Um, again,

375
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:05,600
just want to emphasize that we want to
be a partner in addressing concerns

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00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,159
about whether providers are being good
neighbors and providing high quality

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00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:11,840
services.
>> Thank you so much, Dan. Um, I really

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00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:18,799
appreciate it. And and colleagues, I
know that these hearings have been um

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00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:23,360
very long and and arduous process, but
it seems like we're almost to the finish

380
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:28,240
line. Um, Komar63 has been something
that I know I've worked on for the past

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00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:33,120
few years. Um and so it's really
exciting um that we are close to the

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00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:39,120
finish line and it'll finally give us um
some opportunities within our roles um

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00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:42,559
to really um have the the type of
quality of life issues that we're seeing

384
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:48,000
in community actually to be seen and
heard um and also being taken accounted

385
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:52,480
for. [snorts] Um so I'm going to start
colleagues we're going to have um DHCD I

386
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,440
know you all don't have a presentation
but would you like to provide any

387
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,159
comment before we go into our round of
questioning?

388
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:07,279
I'd like to ask a question if I could.
>> Sure.

389
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,960
» Um, with the recovery homes being
certified,

390
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:16,480
» what role will you guys provide with
that? Um, is it anything similar to what

391
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:22,080
you provide now for licensed?
>> No. So, um, recovery residences are

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00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:27,360
handled more centrally at the state
level. They do the certification. They

393
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:34,559
maintain the list of recovery homes.
They respond to complaints. They do the

394
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:39,039
inspections. I think we we hope that we
will we will have an opportunity to work

395
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:45,600
with the state on getting the word out
on um educating community recovery

396
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:49,760
residences providers about the changes
that are occurring in Comar 1063. So, we

397
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,279
want to be a partner and we hope that we
will be a partner with the state, but

398
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,919
recovery residences are just more
managed more centrally.

399
00:32:55,519 --> 00:33:02,159
» Yeah. So, that's what I figured was
going to be the answer. And and so DHC's

400
00:33:00,399 --> 00:33:08,480
comments would be that, you know, Miss
Evelyn testified about um one neighbor

401
00:33:06,399 --> 00:33:13,440
and and the impact that the recovery
homes have on that neighbor and the

402
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:19,440
neighborhood. And uh DHCD he's hears
this constantly and we're expected to

403
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:25,760
step up and do enforcement on these
homes and pull their permits or stop

404
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:30,720
them from, you know, getting the zoning
>> um cite them, you know, take them to

405
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:37,360
court. And really,
>> most of what goes on is outside of

406
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:43,760
DHCD's control or oversight or ability
to regulate. Um, and I would have hoped

407
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:49,840
that the state in in doing the
regulations for um, 6310

408
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:54,960
would have actually pushed recovery
houses to that licensed status

409
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,399
» because I think that then gets you to
the point where

410
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:03,279
» there is someone
>> who can deal with these problems. And

411
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,880
when the complaints come into DAC and
we're going out and sending inspectors

412
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:12,960
and all we can do is sight for the trash
or the high grass or um you know

413
00:34:11,483 --> 00:34:16,320
[clears throat] make sure they're
properly permitted.

414
00:34:14,879 --> 00:34:19,679
» Can't shut them down, but we can get
them to to have the right permits in

415
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,919
place
>> usually, but that there would be someone

416
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:26,720
that those referrals could go to that
would then

417
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:30,560
» be able to revoke a license and shut a
place down

418
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:36,480
» if they're needing to be shut down. Um,
and that's the frustration we share with

419
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:40,240
the community in that we're here to try
and help and serve and make better

420
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,440
Baltimore, make Baltimore a better
place.

421
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:48,320
» Um, and a lot of times our hands are
tied and it is very difficult for us to

422
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,960
then,
>> you know, properly respond without

423
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:57,839
» being the the fall guy.
>> Yeah. No, Jason, I appreciate that. And

424
00:34:55,359 --> 00:35:02,800
and I want to just take that a little
bit further. And um I I want to take

425
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,960
that a little bit further because I I I
think that

426
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,760
outside of citation and high grass and
weeds, I think that there are things

427
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:19,200
that DHCD could be doing. So we could
possibly revoke their rental license. we

428
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:25,680
could possibly um you know have some
sort of connectivity with BHSB to say

429
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:29,760
hey this is um a site that we haven't
seen that is registered you know have we

430
00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:34,079
looked into do they have any Medicaid
complaints do they have any complaints

431
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:39,760
with the state like I want us to think a
little bit more strategically than

432
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:44,160
exactly what is on paper because again
and this kind of flows into my first

433
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:48,320
question how do you all and I suspect
from your answer that there's not much

434
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:54,640
that has been done, but like how do you
all handle any type of 311 complaints um

435
00:35:51,520 --> 00:36:01,520
that come in related to said uh said
residences? Like walk me through that

436
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:09,280
process and walk me through how you all
are um again citation or fines or

437
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:13,520
anything. How how do you all walk
through that process?

438
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:19,440
» Sure. So I it does depend on what kind
of complaints are coming in. So, if it's

439
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:24,000
just the standard um sanitation related
complaints, that usually lands with uh

440
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,000
um the property maintenance inspections
division and they will respond like they

441
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:32,079
respond to any home.
>> Um if they see trash or high grass and

442
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,920
weeds or other sanitation issues, they
would issue a citation

443
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:41,520
» and that really is the the end of that
until there's another complaint. um if

444
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:45,599
it does rise to that level where it's
egregious, then it may get referred to

445
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,800
the legal section to do a pattern
practice case or something.

446
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:53,599
» And how how many do you know like what
is the threshold for the legal section?

447
00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:58,880
Um because I mean for example in
Brooklyn and Curtis Bay, there are key

448
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:03,760
um key sites that I know on the over the
past 5 years that have been cited and

449
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,839
pushed through 311, but they haven't hit
that legal threshold yet.

450
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:12,320
» Yeah. I mean, there's not a set number,
but it's the where the complaints are

451
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:17,839
and the citations exist and then the
citations aren't getting a response. So,

452
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,560
when we take a case like that to court,
usually we're looking at multiple

453
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:26,640
citations within a three-month period.
>> Um, not something that has dragged out

454
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:31,920
over, you know, like three citations in
three years would not be a a place that

455
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:36,880
would rise to that level. But when
you're getting um regular calls and

456
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:40,960
going out and seeing the same issue that
isn't being addressed by the property

457
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:47,119
owner or the property manager, whoever
may be in responsible, that's that's

458
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:50,640
when those things can be elevated. Um
>> but if they're not enough inspectors or

459
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:55,920
only minimal inspectors that kind of
handle a quadrant, um how are they going

460
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,880
to get out the repeated, you know, how
how are they going to get out there to

461
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,160
the repeated calls if they're going to
other places? And so like that three

462
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,839
month
>> it

463
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:13,920
» yeah it is a constant challenge. Um they
311 calls are um prioritized you know so

464
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:18,000
where things fall off more is when it's
reinspections and violation notices and

465
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,920
those things but they do go out
>> um and if there is a violation we'll

466
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,599
issue the citation or a notice as
appropriate. Um,

467
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,359
» what would happen if we pull a
reasonable accommodation from a

468
00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:30,359
residence?

469
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,240
» The reasonable accommodation itself,

470
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:42,720
» nothing really.
>> So, they wouldn't have to shut down. So,

471
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,920
in order for them to
>> we'd have to pull the use permit.

472
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,920
» The use permit. So, yeah. What would it
be if we pull even even if we pulled the

473
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:54,000
use permit, what would that would that
shut them down?

474
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,320
um they they would be operating without
a use at that point,

475
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:01,520
» which would be a violation.
>> Which would be a violation. And then

476
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:05,599
» um you our our revocation of a use
permit is not the same as health

477
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:10,079
department shutting down a restaurant
for code violation or even the fire

478
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,240
department like shutting down. It's it's
not immediate in that sense. So if they

479
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:18,480
continue to operate, they'd be operating
illegally and then we would take them to

480
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,240
court. We could also find them and other
things, but

481
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:25,200
» And what's the uh duration um from for
when we take them to court?

482
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,200
» Uh
>> are we looking at a three month, six

483
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:32,640
month? What are we looking at?
>> Yeah, the court process is usually we

484
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,880
would get into court within four to six
weeks

485
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,960
» and then they could ask for
postponements.

486
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:42,480
» So it could be three months, six months,
you know, just

487
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:45,119
» depends on the case and then to an
appeal.

488
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:49,119
» Yeah. And so Trey, I I had asked the
last hearing, I asked for a tiger team

489
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:52,000
related to to this. Have you all
developed this tiger team? And do you

490
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,119
all have any outputs for today's
hearing?

491
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,560
» Uh, thank you for the question,
Councilwoman Porter. Uh, I'm not 100%

492
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:05,760
sure. Um, however, I can take it back uh
um to Tylure and uh and also ask Isaiah

493
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:09,839
if he has any insight on that.
>> Yeah. And so I would just love to know

494
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:15,680
the status of that Tiger team and any
type of report out if we can get a um a

495
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:18,560
formal response within a week. Um that
would be great to the committee.

496
00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:22,320
» Colleague Billy,
>> thank you colleagues. I'm going to um

497
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:26,802
turn it over to you all um for your line
of question. I'm going to start with

498
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:28,240
Councilman uh Conway.
[clears throat]

499
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:33,520
» Thank you, Madam Chair, and I appreciate
you continuing to focus on this issue.

500
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:38,240
Um, as everyone knows here, this is a
pretty nuanced issue in our communities

501
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:41,040
and we're trying to make sure that we
address it appropriately and so I

502
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:48,560
appreciate uh all the leadership from
BHSB um and the work you guys are doing.

503
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:53,119
Uh, I I had a question um
uh very recently there was a a treatment

504
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:57,280
center that opened up in my district and
I did not know about it [clears throat]

505
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:02,000
and it sort of sparked a question for
myself.

506
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:06,960
um about how that could happen. Are
there instances in which folks may not

507
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:13,920
necessarily have to go through certain
procedures in order to open a treatment

508
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:18,160
center? Um, for instance, if they're not
um is there are there instances in which

509
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:23,440
they don't necessarily need a license in
order to open or

510
00:41:20,319 --> 00:41:26,640
» uh if they want to be a licensed
behavioral health provider in the public

511
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:31,440
behavioral health system and bill
Medicaid, they have to then no, they

512
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:35,760
they need a license. Okay. if they are
not providing clinical behavioral health

513
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:39,280
services. If they're you know providing
mentorship or

514
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,960
» um [clears throat] you know after school
care like there's a variety of different

515
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:48,640
you know kind of social services or
health and human services that an entity

516
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:52,160
might provide um in which case like that
that that's not going through the

517
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,800
Maryland Department of Health behavioral
health license process. Um, but if they

518
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:01,440
are billing Medicaid for behavioral
health services, then no, they need to

519
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:07,280
get a license from us and then we we
email y'all um every other month with

520
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:14,000
with new um licensed providers that open
up in your uh district.

521
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:19,520
» And if they weren't billing Medicaid,
>> then then no. But but at that point,

522
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:24,720
like what are they doing? You know, like
how are they serving people? I guess

523
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:28,960
they could they might if they're just
billing private insurance, maybe if if

524
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:34,160
they have a grant to do something
outside of the public behavioral health

525
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:37,760
system, then maybe. But um but if
they're providing mental health or

526
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:42,240
substance use services, then they
essentially need to be licensed. Would

527
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:46,800
you guys be notified in those instances
or

528
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:51,359
» No, we're, you know, there's there's a
wide range of different sorts of, you

529
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:56,079
know, social services that could be
provided and so we we're only involved

530
00:42:53,920 --> 00:43:02,000
with uh licensed behavioral health
providers and um and other and and the

531
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:08,480
folks that we directly contract with.
>> Got it. Um, and then I guess there's a a

532
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:12,800
broader question um for the
um for the services that we end up

533
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:20,160
having these issues that the folks have
testified earlier today about um

534
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:25,280
are these folks that only are receiving
Medicaid or are the ones that are maybe

535
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:32,319
only relying on private insurance or out
of pocket um do they don't they have the

536
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:37,359
same issues? Um, and in light of those
issues, should we also be making sure

537
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:41,839
that we know when they open up in order
that we can make sure we better support

538
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,240
our communities in those instances as
well? I don't have the answers to those

539
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:49,440
questions, but that's one of the things
that came to mind for myself. Um, so I

540
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:54,160
don't know if you want to add anything
to that.

541
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:59,680
Um,
yeah. I think

542
00:43:57,359 --> 00:44:03,760
it's just hard for me to like it's hard
for me to

543
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:08,720
envision like what these entities are
doing if they didn't get a license like

544
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:13,440
um
you know like a someone can call

545
00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:16,720
themselves whatever they they want. Um
but

546
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:21,119
» and I I think we we did respond like we
worked with your office on on this one

547
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:27,040
particular uh program that you had
concerns about that the the um community

548
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:30,319
had concerns about and they just weren't
providing mental health and substance

549
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:36,640
use treatment. They were doing other
things. Um, and so, um, I think we're

550
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:40,640
we're happy to to to
to get involved and to to help help

551
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,160
figure out what's going on in any
instance, but but it's just hard to know

552
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:48,240
like how we would how we would get
informed in the first place if they're

553
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,240
not like applying for lensure or
something.

554
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:57,280
» I appreciate I I'll follow up with you
guys about the one that I have in mind.

555
00:44:52,400 --> 00:45:00,880
Um I I don't know how they're being paid
if they apply for a license or otherwise

556
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:05,040
and but I I'll follow up with you guys
on that and figure out if this is one of

557
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,680
those instances. But I was curious like
how it kind of slipped through the

558
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:11,040
cracks and we didn't get that
notification.

559
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:13,359
» But thank you Madam Chair.
>> Sure.

560
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:15,200
» Thank you so much. Any other questions,
colleagues?

561
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,760
» Councilman Bullock.
>> Madam Chair. Um, not so much a question,

562
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:23,359
but just um, thank you um, Chair Porter
for holding this hearing again and just

563
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,040
thank you for everyone here today. Um,
one of the things that's not lost on me

564
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,720
and it's also driven by your line of
questioning as as well as that of uh,

565
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:34,400
Councilman Conway. Uh, the reality is
that's a difficult situation for us to

566
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:37,520
navigate and on one side we're trying to
make sure that folks are getting the

567
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:40,560
help and the care they need at the same
time trying to balance that with some of

568
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,000
the quality of life concerns that you
mentioned within our neighborhoods. So

569
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:48,720
again, appreciate housing, but also
appreciate uh BHSB and uh Council Member

570
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,760
Porter again, just as we emphasize
trying to balance these issues and what

571
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:55,760
we could do in terms of the state
regulations as well. So it is much more

572
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:59,440
complicated than folks realize and all
of our districts are impacted by it. Um

573
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:01,520
it's evidenced by some of the questions
and comments, too. So thank you for

574
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,079
doing this.
>> Thank you so much, Councilman. All

575
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:10,400
right, Councilwoman Ramos.
>> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Uh and thank

576
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:16,640
you again for your attention to this
issue in the committee. Um I had a

577
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:23,839
couple of questions. One is uh the last
hearing we asked for specific lists from

578
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:30,160
DHCD about um the uh I guess they're
called recovery homes um that uh have

579
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:36,560
reasonable accommodation. Uh the answer
was we don't have that list. Uh the

580
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:44,079
other uh request was how many um of
these uh homes are uh classified under

581
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:50,960
the bill that we uh passed several years
ago around the supportive housing. Um

582
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:56,960
and uh the answer was we don't have that
list. And so uh I think there's two

583
00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:02,400
things happening here. One is there may
be a confidentiality HIPPA issue I

584
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:08,480
guess. Um and if that is the case, that
should have been the answer. Uh but the

585
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:12,319
other answer may be that um for some
reason we're not collecting the data

586
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:17,599
after we're approving these reasonable
accommodations, which does not make any

587
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:23,920
sense to me. Um I I think it should be
done in a way that is uh similar to what

588
00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:28,720
we do with rental licensing uh but maybe
not as public because there could be

589
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:34,880
some HIPPA issues. Um but more around
like you know we we need to know where

590
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:40,800
where some of these are so that we can h
have conversations with BHSB

591
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:46,319
uh and the state uh as to the challenges
that we're seeing and um so I just want

592
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:52,240
to hear a little bit more from DHCD
about this issue. Uh again I I'm trying

593
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:55,920
to approach this as a client- centered
approach. I mean, yes, we care about our

594
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:59,920
neighborhoods, but I don't think we'll
be able to legislate anything unless

595
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:04,000
we're really concentrating on making
sure that the clients are getting the

596
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:09,440
care that they need. Um, so we don't
have these lists, even though we're

597
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:15,640
asking people to certify themselves or
apply for these um these these issues.

598
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:25,520
» So, the the reasonable accommodation
process, I don't remember the exact time

599
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:33,040
frame, but when it was created, it was
created post litigation when the city

600
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:37,920
had been um denying permits for more
than four individuals in a property, use

601
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:45,680
permits for more than four individuals
in a property. And that was deemed

602
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:51,680
discriminatory. And um one of the
resolutions was to create the reasonable

603
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:56,880
accommodation process so that we could
grant an exception to the no more than

604
00:48:54,400 --> 00:49:04,800
four unrelated people in a property
based off of a legitimate need um to to

605
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:09,839
have that reasonable accommodation. Um
so they

606
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:15,760
at the time it was never um thought of
as a tracking method. it was just a

607
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:23,119
check and balance to issuing a use
permit. Um, so we're we did pull and

608
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:30,319
we're able to pull um from the use
permit data any use permits where it

609
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:35,520
mentions reasonable accommodation or um
residential treatment or substance abuse

610
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:40,880
treatment. So that all by word search
for you know lack of a better term

611
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:47,119
» that can be done but
>> to the best of my knowledge no list was

612
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:53,440
ever generated because also um the
reasonable accommodations come in um but

613
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:57,680
they may not actually go through with it
and get the actual use permit to do

614
00:49:55,040 --> 00:50:03,119
that. So sometimes they fall off or they
they go through they open up and then

615
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:06,079
they close down. And so there's
they just never created a list,

616
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:08,720
» right?
>> Simple.

617
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:13,200
» And so I think we we I think we're going
to need that in the new format relative

618
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:18,240
to, you know, especially if we're going
to have these certified. Um and again,

619
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:24,000
we can talk about whether or not they're
private or public in terms of who has

620
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:31,440
access. Uh but because also there's ADA
and fair housing concerns. Um, but I

621
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:35,680
also know that um, you know, we want to
figure out um, how to how to do that.

622
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:39,280
And I did see the the outline on the
spreadsheet where you did have, you

623
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:43,200
know, based on whatever the permit was
uh, but it was, you know, it's not

624
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:48,160
necessarily a consolidated list as well
as uh, sometimes in the an early list

625
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:54,240
that I saw at the beginning of my uh,
being a council person, these were like

626
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:57,440
historic. I mean, they they may not be,
you know, reasonable accommodation

627
00:50:55,359 --> 00:51:01,520
anymore. I just think we don't we don't
we haven't built that kind of

628
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:05,119
infrastructure yet. And so, um, I think
we're going to have to, and that might

629
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:10,000
be part of the tiger team that Madam
Chair is suggesting is sort of a soup to

630
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:15,200
nuts approach, um, to figuring out how
we're, um, having a better

631
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,640
accountability for making sure that the
care that people are getting is the high

632
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:24,319
quality care that they're supposed to
get. Um, so I will follow up um I guess

633
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:30,240
with you on that because I think that we
do need to have you know something like

634
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:33,920
that. And then the the um and that's
probably the same for the other piece

635
00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:40,800
around a bill that we passed um in terms
of figuring out the um supportive

636
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:46,559
housing um bill uh and making sure that
we're actually figuring out what

637
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:50,640
properties are under that bill um and go
from there. So, um, be happy to to work

638
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,440
with you on that because that's going to
be critical information for resident for

639
00:51:52,720 --> 00:52:00,640
us, um, as well. And we do I I
understand the the confidentiality

640
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:04,640
concerns. Uh, but I do think that we've
got to have some way of talking about

641
00:52:01,839 --> 00:52:12,400
it. And then um I'd like to add and
maybe this is a committee request um for

642
00:52:08,319 --> 00:52:17,040
uh the um person who came in to talk
about all the information that she did

643
00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:20,880
not have uh to try to address this. I
mean that's information not just for

644
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:25,440
providers but for the public to know so
that we know what to expect um and what

645
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:30,000
certifications are needed for certain
things if people are seeing things in

646
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:34,880
the neighborhood. And so we may want to
develop uh that kind of public

647
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:38,640
information. Uh and madam chair, I don't
know if you want to add that to the

648
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:42,240
tiger team work or if that's something
to add as a committee request.

649
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:45,839
» Yeah. So I'm going to help her navigate
because BHSB actually does that and so

650
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:49,760
I'm going to help her navigate through
that process. Yep. Thank you.

651
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:54,000
» Sure. Sure. Um well I was also thinking
that there could be you know um some of

652
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:59,520
this as well. And then the last thing
I'll say is that you know my um you can

653
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:05,040
anticipate that um one of my
neighborhoods does have a concentration

654
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:10,800
of uh these places and we hear from them
a lot and uh I'd like to try to get some

655
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:15,760
folks together to really look at each
one because sometimes it may not be that

656
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:19,200
and sometimes it is and we want to make
sure that folks are are really taken

657
00:53:17,599 --> 00:53:24,079
care of. So, I'll bring be pulling
people together to to take a look at I

658
00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:29,359
mean, they may not let us in, but at
least we can knock um and and see see

659
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:32,880
what happens. Um so, thank you. And
Madam Chair, I'm sorry I have to excuse

660
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:36,400
myself. I have to represent us uh at
Mako um this morning.

661
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:41,079
» That's fine. Thank you so much. All
right, Councilman Blanchard.

662
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:48,800
» Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh thank you,
everyone. I before my question, I'll

663
00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:57,359
just briefly say to uh the chair's point
about the mentor program. Um recently I

664
00:53:52,559 --> 00:54:01,200
had a um uh inpatient recovery facility
in the district that had had some some

665
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:04,319
constituents were reaching out about it.
Um you know, I'm not sure if that was

666
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,440
accurate or if it was stereotyping or
whatever, but reached out, had a meeting

667
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:11,920
with the owners. They they were
definitely reluctant to talk, but once

668
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:16,319
we talked and we had a you know decent
conversation and then they had I think

669
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:20,160
it was a paid consultant but it is
someone else who does this work and so

670
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:25,119
like well let me put you in touch with
him and like talked to him and like 2

671
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:29,040
days later they had a here's our good
neighbor policy here's our like here's

672
00:54:27,119 --> 00:54:32,480
the line of contact here's like a
program description like do you want us

673
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:38,079
to come talk at like a neighborhood
assessment and I was like why why can't

674
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:42,240
it always be this Um, and and so I think
I think there was like one slight change

675
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:45,920
that they made. And obviously some of
these entities are bad actors that are

676
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,160
being predatory and negligent of their
neighbors, but I think a lot of times

677
00:54:48,319 --> 00:54:55,119
it's not the case. And so I was that was
just really interesting to me because

678
00:54:51,760 --> 00:55:00,240
that is not often my experience in in a
situation like this. So that was really

679
00:54:56,559 --> 00:55:03,760
interesting. Um, my question is for I
believe it's Mr. T, so it might be for

680
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:07,359
the deputy commissioner Hler. Um so
under Baltimore zoning code res recovery

681
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:11,280
residences fall under the residential
care facility use uh which covers not

682
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:15,920
just addiction rehab but also other
residential facilities where supervision

683
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:20,319
is required. In 2017 under transform
Baltimore and to my understanding under

684
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:24,319
the guidance of a lawsuit settlement
exits the city. Our zoning code was

685
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:28,960
changed to allow these facilities in
every residential area with effectively

686
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:32,960
no restrictions. This is in a very
significant contrast with other major

687
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:37,119
jurisdictions in the state like PG
County which has bed caps in Montgomery

688
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:42,559
County which has a lot size requirement
for bed. Um, I think this lack of

689
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:47,440
regulation becomes a particular problem
in neighborhoods where the property

690
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:51,359
values are lower because then it ends up
being the highest and best use where

691
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:55,440
you're seeing this and I think this has
to do with the the overconentration that

692
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,799
we're hearing about and this concern
that we're hearing about in so many of

693
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:03,760
our communities. Um, had these
regulations been reviewed and changes

694
00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:10,319
proposed over the last I guess it's 9
years since um, you know, transform

695
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:15,520
Baltimore has come into place and as as
the effects have become clearer.

696
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:18,799
» Uh, good morning madam chair, members of
the committee, Eric Tiso for the

697
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:24,799
department of planning. Um there has not
been changes recently and uh if other

698
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:28,000
jurisdictions have found a way to uh add
additional requirements that we are not

699
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:33,040
doing. I would want to defer that to the
law department to see if we can apply

700
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:36,720
that here. Um so that would be the the
first thing that we would want to check

701
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:41,040
with. Um, yeah, we share similar
concerns where some of our middle market

702
00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:45,280
uh neighborhoods have homes that are
just big enough uh to meet the needs for

703
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:48,880
residential care facilities uh but are
also just affordable enough uh to meet

704
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:53,680
their needs and that is a competition
factor that we are aware of. So, I'm

705
00:56:51,200 --> 00:57:00,079
happy to to look into that as well. U
we're also aware of um what could

706
00:56:56,559 --> 00:57:03,680
potentially be uses that try to fit into
other land use categories. Right. I was

707
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,599
a few minutes late to this hearing
because I was actually answering a

708
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:12,559
question for someone else about a use
that may fit that filed for a permit for

709
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:16,240
one thing but may fit under another but
that use is not available so they're

710
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:23,440
applying under the use that they may fit
through. Um, so this happens with some

711
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:28,000
degree of frequency and so we'd be happy
to to help with that. And I think the

712
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:32,160
concerns that we have more are not
licensed facilities because there's an

713
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:36,880
avenue of getting at those, right?
Zoning is more like a hammer than a

714
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:41,200
scalpel. Um, it's the supportive housing
that is not licensed, that is not

715
00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:47,680
medical, that is, you know, something to
that effect that is difficult to address

716
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:52,960
in any meaningful way in zoning. um
without another more specific tool that

717
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:58,880
does not then get at protected classes.
>> Sure. And and thank you, Mr. Chie. So, a

718
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:03,839
specific followup uh regarding the um
the zoning as it compares to to other

719
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:07,359
counties. Um and I know there's an
important, you know, set of legal

720
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:14,880
questions based off the lawsuit and
concerns around that and whatnot. Um,

721
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:19,359
have you ever seen an example where like
Baltimore City couldn't do something in

722
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:23,440
the zoning code that other counties were
doing in the zoning code? Like in the

723
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:28,640
state of Maryland?
>> Uh, I've not looked at that specific

724
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:31,599
angle before. Um, Maryland is an
interesting state where it has three

725
00:58:29,839 --> 00:58:37,200
different categories of county that have
different rights and privileges to them

726
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:40,720
and land use specifically is delegated
in different ways. Baltimore City is in

727
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:45,839
its own subcategory of the land use
article under the state. Um so in some

728
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:50,240
ways this is apples and orangutangs in
comparison. U but again I would need to

729
00:58:48,799 --> 00:58:54,400
get some help from the law department to
see if there's a tool that someone else

730
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:57,520
has that we have not looked at.
>> Okay. Yeah. because I've had this

731
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:01,760
conversation with law before and I I
just

732
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:05,680
I personally struggle to sort of imagine
a situation where other large counties

733
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:11,200
are doing something with their zoning
code that we can't just also do in our

734
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:16,559
zoning code. Um, thank you, Madam Chair.
>> Thank you so much, Councilman Parker.

735
00:59:13,839 --> 00:59:21,680
» No. All right. Any other questions? All
right. I'm going to go back um to DHCD.

736
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:27,040
Just want to um ask one final question
related to um inter agency coordination

737
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:30,640
with the health department um the
environmental control board and how you

738
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:36,559
all handle some of these issues. So like
if you see a recovery home um in the

739
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:44,559
district it has various citations. Are
you all sharing that data uh with other

740
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:50,559
agencies so that they can also add on
their particular realm or scope of

741
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:53,559
practice from a citation perspective?
>> Um

742
00:59:54,799 --> 01:00:07,599
not particular to recovery homes but in
but in general. Yes. Um and actually

743
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:12,880
we DHD pushed um the mayor's office uh
to create the multi- agency task force.

744
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:17,680
Um that was something that um we felt
like a lot of times we were calling the

745
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:23,119
other agencies for support. And so we
felt it was better that it be led by the

746
01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:28,799
mayor's office. And so um that's a group
that meets every Thursday and tackles

747
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:32,559
some problems that are really cross
agency. Mhm.

748
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:38,960
» Um so we'll work with department
transportation, uh fire department,

749
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:42,319
health department, uh liquor board.
>> So the reason Yeah. The reason why I

750
01:00:40,319 --> 01:00:47,680
asked this because I have a um specific
list of SRS um that I would love to see

751
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:52,319
um I would love to see if they've been
discussed within the MAFE. Um because

752
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:58,000
there hasn't been really there hasn't
been much um movement on those SRs. They

753
01:00:55,599 --> 01:01:00,720
were just closed. If you want to send I
don't need the SRS but the addresses.

754
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,400
» The addresses. Okay. Perfect.
>> Send those over to us and we can take a

755
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,359
look at them.
>> Okay. Perfect. And I mean even some that

756
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,640
were mentioned today within Brooklyn and
Curtis Bay. I would love to see I mean

757
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,960
those are just addresses right off the
top of my head without going to the

758
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,359
office.
>> Having the addresses would be

759
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:16,960
» okay. Perfect.
>> Any other questions colleagues?

760
01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:21,040
» All right. Hearing and seeing none.
Thank you all so much for joining us

761
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:24,720
today. Um I really appreciate it. Um I
believe we have just one second. I

762
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:29,680
believe we have one more person. Um,
Janet Allen that wanted to provide

763
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:34,520
testimony.
I'll allow uh two minutes. Miss Janet.

764
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,640
Miss Janet.

765
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,920
Miss Janet.

766
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:55,599
All right. If you are on mute, you're
you need to unmute, Miss Janet.

767
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:03,440
Okay. All right. Um well, we're going to
close out um public testimony for the

768
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:08,040
second time. And thank you all so much
for joining us today. Have a great day.