1
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:32,559
stroke. We're going to add that as part
of that and Ken will modify that to

2
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:36,640
reflect the fact that we get an annual
report from the zoning administrator and

3
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:42,720
then we have a two-year
um certified person looking at this. Um

4
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,919
Upon or prior to the expiration of the
permit, the planning commission may

5
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,600
approve renewals of the permit for
successive periods of not more than two

6
00:18:47,679 --> 00:18:53,760
years in duration,
comma.

7
00:18:51,520 --> 00:19:00,880
Um, and then I think we need to add if
the applicants operations are uh

8
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:06,480
proceeding according to approved plans,
they have to have criteria, right? And

9
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:10,640
so the criteria is they're they're
operating according to the plans we

10
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:17,320
approved. Does that make it more money
or is that um

11
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,320
we have to have criteria for them?

12
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,520
I think that adds clarity if the
applicants operations are proceeding

13
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,919
according to approved plans and then the
zoning administrator.

14
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,600
Any feedback on that?

15
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:42,080
We just making it more.
>> I think I'm trying to simplify it.

16
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:47,520
» I think it's just enough that you don't
need to come back before us,

17
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:50,799
» you know, going according to what was
presented.

18
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,320
» Yes.
>> ZA looks at we're good. You're good.

19
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,919
We'll see you in two years.
>> Yeah.

20
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:05,840
We're going to elaborate more on that
very point in on line 498 58 to to drive

21
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:10,400
your point home. Dave, um before we get
there, the last I'm going to go in order

22
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:16,080
here. Line 397, hours of operation, we
had talked about I said I would figure

23
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:24,720
out what other people are doing and give
you what I learned. And so, um for

24
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:29,440
So, what I learned is that
um Riley does not have I looked on their

25
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,440
website. They don't have any um
companywide

26
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:39,039
they don't have any companywide policy.
They go by the zoning ordinances. The

27
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:45,919
cloth Riley and Haz Township starts at
7:15 a.m. They generally start 7 and

28
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:52,480
work till 7 Monday through Friday. Um
Guy White on Wayne City East Jordan Road

29
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:57,600
in the summer they start at day and
daylight and I know my husband out the

30
00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:01,360
door. So, and then they start later when
the light goes away. If you do a quick

31
00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:06,720
little search, you'll find out that we
have 35 days where it's light at 6 a.m.

32
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:11,840
So, it's a very short window. I know
that road building is very seasonal.

33
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:15,360
Um,
what would you like to do for a start

34
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:20,320
time? That's what I know about what's
currently happening in a couple markets.

35
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:28,080
» If you looked at the ordinance from that
they sent for the data centers,

36
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:34,640
All 7 to 7, 7 to 5:30, stuff like that.
So, seems like most places start at 7.

37
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:39,360
» Well, now construction crews don't start
at 7. And I'm the only one that lives

38
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:45,679
next to this group live next to the
biggest the pallet and they start when

39
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:50,720
they have a something. They might start
usually six o'clock. You're going

40
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:54,720
sometimes earlier, sometimes later.
But again, if you're in the concrete

41
00:21:52,400 --> 00:22:00,000
business, you know, it's going to be hot
or you rain, you're ser I know a crew

42
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:05,200
and
in Gaylord, they'll time for you at 4

43
00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:09,520
a.m. deliver
and they're done by

44
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:12,520
quit.
And

45
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,440
» I don't think I I don't think 6 a.m. is

46
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:25,280
and you know we're not talking about
3:00 a.m. or 4 a.m. It's 6 o'lock in the

47
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:30,960
morning. My kids are getting up at 6:20
to get ready for school.

48
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:35,600
I don't know why we have to push it so
late for

49
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:39,600
I don't know why 6 a.m. is
>> okay. So you feel strongly about that?

50
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:45,280
How about we split the
6:30

51
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:49,880
again they're going to go at daylight
and it is to your point it's very

52
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:58,135
acceptable compromise reasonable
compromise would you feel very strongly

53
00:22:54,799 --> 00:23:02,320
blessed to saybody
[clears throat]

54
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,320
» if you're you just said they're going to
go

55
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,320
during that short period
630

56
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:20,080
Correct. Yeah.
>> And and we're, you know, again, we're

57
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:24,159
we're counting ourselves to the
agricultural community.

58
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:28,480
My opinion, make sure you don't have any
tractors going before 6 a.m. I mean,

59
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:33,280
that's ultimately we're saying if trucks
are going, trucks are going. You're not

60
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:38,640
stopping anybody else from driving.
You're not stopping Dylan from serving

61
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:43,280
his truck out.
So you're putting extra burdens on this

62
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,200
specific
>> industry.

63
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,880
» Industry.
>> I see your point. Okay.

64
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:54,760
I'm I'm okay with that.
>> Does it matter what location?

65
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,799
They're really close to res.

66
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:08,440
» Yeah.
>> Well, this is this is for gravel mining.

67
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,440
So it's

68
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:16,320
except except that all the other things
are [snorts] it can't have a certain

69
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:21,760
noise limit at the edge of the property
or vibration or whatever

70
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:26,679
with that I guess and if they meet those
criteria doesn't make a difference

71
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:36,799
» yeah it does
>> no what I meant was putting a

72
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:41,360
restriction on
of a time limit. It doesn't matter as

73
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:45,440
long as we've already put a restriction
on how much noise or vibration.

74
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,520
» If you read on a little bit further in
that section, it gives the township

75
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:54,320
board some leeway. you know, it sets the
standard at 6 a.m., but if there's

76
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:59,720
unique circumstances, the board can
tweak that. So, it's like right next to

77
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:17,000
» it's easier to
>> Yes, I see.

78
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,480
6:30 is

79
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:26,880
» okay.
Everybody good with leaving it at 6?

80
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:29,600
» No.
>> No,

81
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:34,240
» I don't think we should have any hours.
Travis says

82
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:42,159
we're not regulating anybody else like
that. We spray all night if we have to.

83
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:48,919
all night long and our neighbors can't
complain because we have right to farm

84
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,919
» but we don't

85
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:56,320
» and I hear you all night long and I hear
your fans all night long and it is

86
00:25:53,440 --> 00:26:04,960
disturbing but I can't complain so
>> saying I I I don't love it either

87
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:11,760
but I know that you have that right so I
I think I think you have to have ours

88
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:17,840
I'm not sure if there's a zoning. Are
you aware of any zoning ordinance on

89
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:22,279
gravel that doesn't have hours? I'm not.
Everyone I looked at hours

90
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:41,720
isn't a special use.
to do what works for you. It's not quite

91
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,720
apples.

92
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:53,279
» Well, on that the half hour thing about
66.

93
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:57,640
» Well, I'm okay. Oh, okay.
>> Sure.

94
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,640
» That's reasonable.

95
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:11,039
» Yeah, the daylight will
Like you said, the short window of

96
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,679
daylight we have throughout the
producing months.

97
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:25,000
» All right, Ken, I think we're at six to
six unless anyone wants to discuss that

98
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000
further.

99
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:31,559
Marina

100
00:27:39,919 --> 00:27:45,320
got talked about I brought up my
driveway

101
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,480
» that's in our current

102
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:53,400
» that's not

103
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,640
allowed smaller guys to operate without
having to go through this. But we're

104
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:07,960
going to be getting rid of our police
ordinance when this takes over. Correct.

105
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
» Yes.

106
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,880
» So that volume should be reflected in
this

107
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,600
smaller guys.

108
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:26,520
We do have onage similar language
allowing for smaller operations to be

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00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,520
excluded.

110
00:28:40,159 --> 00:28:44,520
You want to do something different with
that?

111
00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:51,720
» Point is

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00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,399
where you

113
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,960
You know,

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you know,

115
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,919
smaller operation.

116
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,440
» Okay. What would you propose?

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00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:39,720
What do we have that you referred to
excludes

118
00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:39,720
on page one starting at line 38

119
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:58,880
So that that covers their day-to-day
operation, but that doesn't cover them

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00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:05,080
if they have some property that they
want

121
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:05,080
to make sure

122
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:25,200
that doesn't
years or months or

123
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,559
» it just says the requirement shall not
apply under the following circumstances.

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00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,351
That is a question that I've had all
2000 [clears throat]

125
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:48,840
over the life of it
year.

126
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:48,840
That's not defined. My guess is that

127
00:30:54,799 --> 00:31:02,320
» it does say the amount of material is
>> that's excluded from this,

128
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:06,960
» right?
>> Yeah. And there's a there's a more

129
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,600
generic provision above that that
basically says if you're excavating for

130
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:17,080
a basement or something
building permit, you're not follow.

131
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:35,480
» Okay.
What would you like to see here instead

132
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,480
of 2000? suggestions.

133
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:40,919
» What's the time?

134
00:31:53,279 --> 00:32:01,519
I interpret it as per like they're
getting the SU to do a job and it's

135
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,080
permit
whatever that time frame takes to

136
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:10,799
complete the job that I I'm making an
assumption. I thought the whole point of

137
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:15,760
that allowing 2,000 yards out here is
something you would have to get. We're

138
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:21,279
talking about a situation where someone
might have some property that they can

139
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:29,200
pull some top soil off so they sell the
top soil or you know they got

140
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:38,360
large operation or they got good sand
and you know I need sand every site so

141
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:38,360
my excavator has sand on this propert

142
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:48,919
and just my inter
It would be

143
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:48,919
forever.

144
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,320
» Yeah, let's keep the number.

145
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:10,080
» Isn't that what the permit would say
originally? How much you think?

146
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:18,760
» These folks would need it.
>> So, I'm saying how know if you're gonna

147
00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:18,760
know that there's a huge number of guys.

148
00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:31,039
» So if you one truck coming and going
hour to go and come back

149
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:36,640
numbers completely out 15 yards in that
truck 120 yards a day 140 yards a week

150
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:39,640
just to give us some sort of
>> reference.

151
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:45,640
They can easily haul $2,000 a week

152
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:54,399
a truck a small guy.
You're also, if I can interject, you're

153
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,279
also talking about, you're not talking
about something that's got big sifters

154
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,440
and all that where you're putting up
pile. You're talking about somebody

155
00:33:58,399 --> 00:34:03,200
that's probably going in with their
loader and they've got a sand bill and

156
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:09,520
they're just drawing it straight from
the truck and it's going out. To me,

157
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,839
that's a that's a completely different
situation.

158
00:34:10,879 --> 00:34:18,359
» Certainly, you know,
>> we're restricting it.

159
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:18,359
» 2,000 a week,000.

160
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,320
» But then by the time you get that much
out of there, now you got a pretty good.

161
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:36,000
» So now you start looking at it from the
other way,

162
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
don't you?

163
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:45,960
you make it too much at one time then
then why do you even have an extraction

164
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:45,960
» ordinance at all?

165
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,399
» Any suggestions?

166
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:56,919
» I mean you're right. It's 104,000 2,000
per year. Um

167
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:05,440
I mean I
think

168
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:11,960
what would be a reasonable amount before
you think this should apply. It's a big

169
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,960
enough operation.

170
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,960
» It's either one or two

171
00:35:31,359 --> 00:35:34,599
there's no

172
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,880
It's just another way

173
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:59,520
and that's county.
>> Should we defer to that then

174
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:06,160
to the county soil policy
and I'll look at that and try to

175
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,800
fill in the gap here. I do not
absolutely do not want to hinder these

176
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,599
guys.
>> Right.

177
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:16,960
» Right.
>> And I don't know enough about how much

178
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:24,320
is a lot, how much is a little to say
because to me, you know, 104,000 is a

179
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:26,960
lot. But if you got a road job or
something or you're supplementing, you

180
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:30,480
know, I I know a buddy that's looking at
buying some trains because he's got sand

181
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:34,880
on his property
over on the west side that he's just

182
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:40,480
going to supplement Grand Traverse
County Sand, but it's worth it to him to

183
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:44,800
buy a set of trains
to help us, you know, and he doesn't

184
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:48,160
he's just would be a subcontractor and I
don't and he's not so I don't know

185
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:52,079
enough to
>> know how much.

186
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:56,400
» So, I think we better refer to the
county policy on that.

187
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,720
» Yeah, you could say total amount of
material removed it won't and I'll think

188
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:06,000
of a better way to say it won't trigger
the requirement for soil.

189
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:11,119
That seems reasonable
>> assuming they're going first of all.

190
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:14,960
» But what but that would be our standard.
>> But it would be a number. I mean even if

191
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:19,280
they it would be when they were supposed
to apply for

192
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:23,119
» that seems reasonable.
>> Yeah.

193
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:28,800
» You want to look up that number or we
don't need a number now. We just we kind

194
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:34,400
of do. And now do we need a time frame
for this to Curtis's question?

195
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:38,320
» I mean the way It's total. So that would
be total.

196
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:45,800
» Yeah, that would be again
forever on that property. If you go more

197
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,800
than what it would take to require

198
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:54,760
maybe that's
amount of material, x amount of

199
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:06,000
yards,
>> right? But based on the yard, based on

200
00:38:03,359 --> 00:38:09,960
the acres, we know, you know, you're not
100,000 yards out of a

201
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,880
maybe.

202
00:38:21,839 --> 00:38:27,599
» Say that again.
>> To be clear, that doesn't the clock

203
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:31,920
doesn't reset if you sell the property.
>> Correct.

204
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:36,400
Somehow you got to
know that, oh, that one's already had

205
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:40,880
that one's already hit it limit. So if
it changes hands, the new person can't

206
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:46,480
come in and say, oh, let's take out
104,000.

207
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,760
» Every one of these things attaches to
something else.

208
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,800
» Yes, it does.
>> And how do you, you know, keep track of

209
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:59,440
it and and all that? That's my
>> Right. But if you're doing if you say

210
00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:01,520
14,000 a year, if that's the number,
next owner.

211
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,920
» Yeah, but that's not where we're at
right now. It's now it's for the life of

212
00:39:03,359 --> 00:39:05,680
the
>> That's the way it's the way it's

213
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,280
written.
>> That's all I'm saying.

214
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,839
» Which is fine. I don't care. It's just
it's again something else. How how in

215
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:20,400
the heck does your zoning administrator
know 15 years from now that

216
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:24,720
» Well, I guess that's my shouldn't be
tapped out.

217
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:29,280
» It shouldn't be for a one time thing.
>> Again, that's not how gravel itself

218
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:34,599
works. If there's if there's a
I get it.

219
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,599
» But you guys got to figure that out.

220
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:44,520
» Well, what if we said just the amount,
not total, the amount of material

221
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,520
removed will require

222
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:54,480
and that that doesn't put a time frame
on it. You know,

223
00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:58,480
that way it's just the zoning
administrator sees something going on,

224
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:02,040
contacts the county,
permits is

225
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,880
something

226
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:25,520
» and just on your comment about about
earlier and your public comment, it it

227
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:31,520
does affect the cost because if I've got
a truck in diesel diesel over $5 a

228
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:35,440
gallon. If I have to truck in gravel
from 20 miles away, I better pay that

229
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:40,320
trucking fuel bill. If I have to truck
in gravel from two miles away, I I gain

230
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:45,839
that cost. I don't have to pay as much
trucking and so it will be a discounted

231
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,839
price.
So,

232
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:56,960
» okay. Um I just have two more things.
Line 507

233
00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:01,280
that section is highlighted and talks
about the zoning report, excuse me, the

234
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,280
annual report by the zoning
administrator.

235
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:16,160
And then it says if things are moving
along, all good. Looking at five line

236
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:20,960
502
shall require amended operation or

237
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:27,680
reclamation plans describing their
situation saying I'm having a pickup

238
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:33,760
here. We departed from the plan. The
amended operation and reclamation plan

239
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:38,000
shall be re reviewed by the command
planning commission as submitted with a

240
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:42,400
new application. But we don't want to do
that, right? We don't want to have them

241
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:45,119
to go through the application process
again.

242
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:51,520
» But this would only be if the zoning
administrator determines that things

243
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:55,040
aren't the approved. they they departed
in a material way from the approved

244
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:58,160
permit.
>> So that would the way it's written that

245
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,240
would trigger they'd have to submit a
new plan and come back to the planning

246
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,640
commission.
>> Okay.

247
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:08,240
» I just wanted to that helps clarify. I
just want to make sure they go through

248
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:13,040
all the permitting process again as if
it were a new permit submitted as as if

249
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:18,240
it were a new application.
>> Well, that and that that's the way that

250
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:23,520
it's written. But you know that
commission doesn't want

251
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:28,319
but this would be if somebody's not
Curtis determines they're not following

252
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:32,720
the permit they're doing something
material uh mater

253
00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:37,599
were different from what was approved.
He would require them to submit plans

254
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:41,520
kind of explaining why they have to go
back through the process with those

255
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:47,760
plans.
>> And I point Yeah. you come and explain,

256
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:52,800
hey, this is why I'm doing it. This is
why I'm doing it. But as far as

257
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:58,319
because at that point,
>> it doesn't meet the criteria, then we

258
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:03,240
revoke the permit
to start from

259
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:03,240
scratches.

260
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:14,000
» Okay. So to to you guys that's clear.
>> Am I am I hearing that or are we all

261
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:19,839
clear on that? It's not a whole new
application with all the list of um

262
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:26,000
» well kind of it says the amended
operation and reclamation plan shall be

263
00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:31,040
reviewed by the planning committee.
But so we're just looking at the

264
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:35,920
changes, not the whole thing. I mean,
whatever deviated from the original

265
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,440
plan, that's all we should look at.
Don't look the whole thing. We don't

266
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:43,119
make them go through all.
>> So, so maybe we strike as if

267
00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:47,720
[clears throat] submitted with a new
application.

268
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,720
» That's what I think.

269
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:55,599
» Okay. But now the planning commission's
going to look at it. They need criteria

270
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:59,280
to get the green light. Yes.
And what would that criteria be?

271
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,400
» And that's why it's that that that the
easy way to do it is to treat it like a

272
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:07,000
new application because then you know
what the process and procedure is.

273
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:18,960
» Um how about we say um so they come back
to us with their amended plan. We look

274
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:24,160
at it. Um they're I'm not using the
right words, but they're good to go. and

275
00:44:21,359 --> 00:44:29,280
that we have uh the zoning administrator
check back in 30 days and make sure that

276
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:32,319
the plan B is being followed or
something like that.

277
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:36,400
I can just say that planning commission
reviews it in accordance with this

278
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:43,359
section, you know, with the whole
provisions of it. Um, and then what?

279
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,920
» Well, then um they would have a followup
a check back in 30 days,

280
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:51,200
» okay,
>> by the zoning administrator

281
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:55,839
to make sure they're back on track or
their amended plan is proceeding

282
00:44:53,920 --> 00:45:00,319
according to the amended, you know, the
conditions, something to that effect.

283
00:44:58,319 --> 00:45:03,319
» After the planning commission app it.
>> Yes.

284
00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:07,800
» Does that sound reasonable, guys?

285
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:12,839
» They need criteria to get the green
light.

286
00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:22,560
I guess what are they what are we
requiring them to provide

287
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:26,960
their change order? How elaborate?
>> Some they don't have it just has to be

288
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:32,800
some narrative saying I planned on this
but then this happened and Here's my

289
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:37,359
course of action going forward based on
these conditions and I would like to

290
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,480
keep moving forward with this permit.
Just some sort of narrative describing

291
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,160
what their situation was.
>> Yeah. And that's not an automatic.

292
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,000
» No.
>> Did they have to describe the special or

293
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:54,160
unusual circumstances that caused them
to deviate?

294
00:45:50,319 --> 00:45:59,760
And that will be what will be submitted.
Do we believe in you know what if

295
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:04,079
they're providing the information but
the planning commission at the time is

296
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:10,359
not
that well

297
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:10,359
they're submitting

298
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:17,520
» that's why we're relying
our professionals we have to rely on

299
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,839
professionals we don't know. Well, if
you say planning commission shall review

300
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,040
it in accordance with applicable
sections of this, you know, that gives

301
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:30,480
us the fall back
>> because obviously we've establish the

302
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:35,520
criteria in the
we can, you know, we need to consult

303
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:38,480
with an engineer or a traffic engineer
or something.

304
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:42,040
» We may have to have them provide that.
Yeah, that's fair.

305
00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:49,160
I got 473

306
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:16,520
gates in an elephant. I don't receive
any

307
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,520
operations

308
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:24,319
operation.
>> Okay. Do you want me to ask question

309
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,720
about that?
>> Oh, I just think

310
00:47:28,319 --> 00:47:32,280
» how do you secure the site

311
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:39,240
posting in the gate?
>> No offense.

312
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:45,880
What's the
>> What's the doing?

313
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:54,480
» It's keeping the honest people out.
>> Yeah.

314
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,280
» Well, it's liability, right?
>> But it's their liability, right?

315
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:02,720
» It's not our liability. But you're
you're giving them burome.

316
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:06,640
» You know, that's like telling again I go
back. It's like telling Dylan he's got

317
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:10,800
to put a six foot fence around his place
because he's got gravel there and

318
00:48:07,839 --> 00:48:10,800
machinery that somebody

319
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:17,599
And we're already telling he's going to
have around his place

320
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:20,599
and
spate

321
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,040
the gate.

322
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:33,800
Again, we're not
our job to keep people trespass

323
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,800
over

324
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:44,480
again, you know, outside of some
I I just don't see any places that

325
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:50,720
require fenced and again if you have a
40 acre parcel where you're 40 finger

326
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:54,640
but now I got to come back the list
clean it up so you're

327
00:48:53,359 --> 00:48:57,640
continually
>> you

328
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:01,440
proping

329
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:07,880
I see writing something.

330
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:26,520
That's all I have.
Anybody else?

331
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:40,000
Yeah. Okay. Let's get this. Okay. So,
I'll talk to you after about how we

332
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:43,000
transmit this to Catherine for review.
>> Okay.

333
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:49,040
» Is it going to come back to us with the
three changes we've requested or we just

334
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:52,760
make the changes, send it to Catherine,
and then bring it back?

335
00:49:53,520 --> 00:50:00,720
» Make the changes and send it to
Catherine. Yeah. And um

336
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:05,119
violation of
we can't talk about this in between

337
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:08,240
meetings. So we have to I just have to
send Catherine and see what she says

338
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:12,319
those proposed changes
>> right and anything whatever she comes

339
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,640
back with we'll discuss it the next
public meeting

340
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:28,559
» moving on review of permitted use versus
special use um Ken put this together for

341
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:37,200
us as we through it section by section.
We reviewed all seven districts and uh

342
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:43,960
I think there's some winds here. So we
moved in egg we moved roadside stands

343
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,960
and cottage industries into permitted.

344
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:53,119
Um in CR we moved cottage industries
into permitted

345
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:58,480
» under low density residential we moved
cottage industries into permitted use. I

346
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:04,960
have a question before you get too far.
So like in CR you move the cottage

347
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:10,559
industries. Why not roadside stands as
well?

348
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:15,040
» I mean I guess I don't see the big
difference when we talked about it at

349
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:18,280
the last meeting.
I don't know.

350
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:25,280
» First of all, your zoning administrator
go up to any

351
00:51:24,430 --> 00:51:27,520
[laughter]
I'll guarantee you'll have to fire me

352
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,520
first.
>> Okay.

353
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:38,160
» We talked about a definition of roadside
stand. Can you help refresh my memory?

354
00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:41,839
Anybody? Do we want people to sell their
corn whatever their tomato extra

355
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:46,800
tomatoes or
>> my notes indicated that we were talked

356
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,760
about that you have to it has to provide
a significant source of income.

357
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:53,599
» That's right.
>> But I didn't elaborate on that because I

358
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,240
thought the uh
>> who sets that standard

359
00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:00,640
» significant
>> that's it's that's a tough standard. So

360
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:06,640
I like the language that's there saying
50% of the goods have to be produced on

361
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:12,880
the premises. You know I think that's
makes it far operation

362
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:20,400
only 50%
>> and that's at least 50% I think it had

363
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:22,640
to be at least 50%
>> and that comes from

364
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:28,240
» more could be
>> yeah it could be more yeah

365
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:29,920
» where's the other 50%
neighbors

366
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:33,920
» the neighbors garden
>> maybe I don't care this I guess we could

367
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,839
do that
>> and that's the same langage in the

368
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,839
village district.

369
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:50,079
» Yeah. To say that significant sources in
that that's up to

370
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:54,880
» Okay. So Mark, are you suggesting that
we move roadside into CR as well as a

371
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:59,520
permitted use? If you if you're going to
do cottage industries, I think they go

372
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:06,520
as you're if you're going to allow
cottage industries in all of those, then

373
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:06,520
why can't we do stand?

374
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:17,839
» The only difference is that it's they're
tied to farms, you know, farms.

375
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:21,680
» Well, like Curtis said,
>> a big garden out in the back and you

376
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:26,880
have too many tomatoes. There's a lady
in the village there to

377
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:32,359
» and farms are permitted in CR. So that
that would make sense to add that there.

378
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,359
That's what

379
00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:40,359
» I'm good with that.
>> So move road stands into CR as well.

380
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:51,200
» Mark, are you saying
>> anywhere you can have eggs? Anyway,

381
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,760
yeah,
>> it seem to make sense.

382
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:59,319
» Okay,
>> so that would be allowed in one as well.

383
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,319
» Yeah. Okay.

384
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:08,839
» Uh what about home? Yeah, home district.
Same thing, right?

385
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,559
» Julie got some corn you want to sell.
>> Okay.

386
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:27,920
» Well, add that to mobile home.
>> But now the aggion

387
00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:32,640
that's consistent in a CR and R1 is that
agriculture both general and specialized

388
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:37,920
farming, tree farms and forestry that's
not in

389
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:42,520
» mobile home. Okay. So no mobile home
>> but again if you sell anything

390
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:46,599
for

391
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:53,680
that training You buy
the farm.

392
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:58,800
» You buy a chicken, it lays an egg. You
sell that egg, your egg.

393
00:54:55,359 --> 00:55:02,240
» So you get an egg.
>> I don't know.

394
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:06,960
Well, yeah. You can't get shut down your
egg. You sold it. You made money from

395
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:12,079
» that's
what Katherine told us. The Right to

396
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:16,160
Farm Act is an overall exemption,
>> but it doesn't I mean, so in any of the

397
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:21,920
districts, if someone was farming, they
would be able to do it, but you have to

398
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:25,960
decide someone who's wanting to start a
farm, which districts.

399
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:34,599
So, do you think it's appropriate to add
that language to

400
00:55:36,319 --> 00:55:41,200
» Why do you have to add
Why can't you just But you can have

401
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:45,520
roadside stand
>> because you're to have a roadside stand,

402
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:51,359
you're supposed to grow 50% of the
product on the property. So if you can't

403
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:55,319
have a farm, you're kind of
>> well added to mobile home.

404
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,559
» I'm not

405
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:08,319
doing that in the mobile home district.
>> Okay. [laughter] Yeah. I mean, I don't

406
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:14,599
see a bad idea.
>> Okay.

407
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,599
So, we'll add it there, too.

408
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:19,680
» All right. Moving on to village
district.

409
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:25,200
Um,
we're adding cottage industry,

410
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:29,520
residential dwelling on second floor,
commercial structure, and then

411
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:33,680
carpentry, plumbing, electrical, sales,
services, and contracting offices. Those

412
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:37,400
are all not going to be permitted uses
in village district.

413
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:45,040
» And then uh manufacturing
we're adding to carpentry, plumbing,

414
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:49,839
electrical sales services and
contracting offices and then outdoor

415
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,760
storage self storage
as a permitted use

416
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:57,000
» and these would all be subject to site
plan review.

417
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:05,559
» Okay. Anything else you want to add?
in that before we send this off.

418
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:20,480
» Okay. So, um I think we can call for a
public hearing on this. I talked to our

419
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:24,799
clerk about timing, thinking of timing.
The posting for the public hearing will

420
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:29,040
have to come out October 1st in the
interim review. We think we can make it

421
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:33,359
in that window for get her all of this
to her to review and back in time for a

422
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:36,559
public notice for a public hearing.
>> So get it to Catherine to review.

423
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:40,960
» Okay.
>> So I'll just make these changes and send

424
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,440
it to you.
>> Okay.

425
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,760
» Yeah.
>> Go ahead. Should I do a public hearing

426
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,640
notice, too?
>> Yes.

427
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,240
» Okay.
>> And so if we don't make that window,

428
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:53,440
then we just won't post that notice.
>> Okay.

429
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:59,599
But um I would entertain a motion to
call for a public hearing on this. Um

430
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:08,119
let's me word this right. Review of
permitted uses versus uses subject to

431
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:08,119
special approval in all seven districts.

432
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:20,520
And uh I would I'll make that motion.
>> This is for just for

433
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,520
» 103.

434
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:29,000
Correct. That's our next meeting. 10:13.

435
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:38,040
» Are you going to be here, Richard?
>> Yeah.

436
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,040
» And then you're a little

437
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:55,000
Do you want to wait? Are you suggesting

438
00:58:55,119 --> 00:59:00,319
» Oh, are you not shaking your head?
>> Well, I mean, it's probably better to

439
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:03,200
have everybody.
>> Okay. Very good.

440
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,119
» Well, then that gives us a nice big
window to get this reviewed and get it

441
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:11,040
back in time. Okay.
>> So, we could call for a public hearing

442
00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:14,160
next.
Okay.

443
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:18,240
» Is it possible? I mean, if something
there might be some other things that

444
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:23,280
come up that we need a public
meeting. Can you do more than one

445
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:26,280
problem at a public meeting?
>> Yes.

446
00:59:26,319 --> 00:59:35,040
» Yeah.
>> All right. Very good.

447
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:38,880
Waterfront overlay district.
All right. I gave you guys a piece of

448
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:45,480
paper.
Um we had Okay. So, if you could pull up

449
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:45,480
your waterfront district overlay.

450
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:57,040
We didn't know about Inland Lake. So, I
did call Leslie Meyers and this is the

451
00:59:55,119 --> 01:00:01,440
information that we have for Ellsworth
Lake, Wilson Lake,

452
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:05,839
Lake Michigan. And then this would be
2026.

453
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:10,400
And we don't have Little torch in this.
So, I I would propose we just leave that

454
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:13,839
off because we
You can't just make up a number,

455
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:19,000
arbitrarily assign a number. So I would
say we not use a lake level for that.

456
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:22,119
Um

457
01:00:24,799 --> 01:00:33,326
I do have one correction here and K I
may have said Lake Sinclair but it's St.

458
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:35,346
Clair Lake
[clears throat]

459
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:44,319
and areas affected.
So, knowing what the county says about

460
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:48,839
our lake level um and flood plane, if
you look at um page two

461
01:00:54,079 --> 01:01:04,079
where it's it talks about the army corp
engineer their ordinary high water mark.

462
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:08,599
We should substitute the yeah the county
stuff

463
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:08,599
that

464
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:21,040
Um, Ken wants to know if we want to add
on D1 if we want to add height and lot

465
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:26,880
coverage limitations.
What do you guys think about that?

466
01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:32,319
» So, it's CR.
>> Um, so you'd say maximum lot coverage in

467
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:35,119
CR would be what 30%. Is that what
you're referring to, Ken?

468
01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:38,480
» Yeah. Like some, you know, some
communities have additional

469
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:42,480
restrictions.
>> So like only two and a we're trying to

470
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:48,000
get people have maximum view. So it says
two and a half stories or 35 ft high and

471
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:52,720
a 35 30% lot coverage. Is that something
you want to include in that or is that

472
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:58,400
will just come out in the
>> My understanding was it if we do the

473
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:05,280
overlay that it still
it resorts to the underlying area. So if

474
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,440
that's CR then those restrictions. I
don't know that I change it at this

475
01:02:06,799 --> 01:02:11,040
point.
>> I'm not suggesting we change it. I think

476
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:14,400
he's just asking if we want to include
it,

477
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:17,359
» right? Yeah. That this it would default
to the underlying zoning district

478
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:20,640
requirements right now.
>> So why would we want to say anything

479
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:24,079
different unless you wanted to change
it,

480
01:02:21,359 --> 01:02:32,960
» right? Some communities do have stricter
requirements in the water.

481
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:37,040
» And what was what was the or the overlay
What was the how did we come up with the

482
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:43,480
overlay? Because when I looked at it, I
can't find my phone right now.

483
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,480
It was like

484
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:52,960
road to me. It looked like that property
that Dylan bought

485
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:59,559
would fall in that.
>> Yeah, Julie and I talked about that this

486
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,559
morning. It doesn't.

487
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:11,319
» But yeah, this is
>> this is church, right?

488
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:20,480
» Oh, okay.
>> So that would be the that's the

489
01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:28,960
» this would be a proposed overlay. Yes.
So you've got that whole which was egg

490
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:32,640
» is all considered lakefront that doesn't
lake

491
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:36,240
» yeah this says it has to touch water
though

492
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:41,920
» the way that this is written the lot
would have to apply one of the lakes

493
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:48,480
specified river specified
>> so he can remain a I see what you're

494
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:52,319
saying so that that gets addressed
But it has to touch the water.

495
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:58,400
» And then to Dave's point in previous
meetings, you got 20 acre. What was you

496
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:01,400
talking about 20 acre parcel that's
touched

497
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:13,839
» if it's if it's touching the water?
[clears throat]

498
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:17,680
» So So that So you made this
it was if I've got 20 acres touch one of

499
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:23,119
these legs
It's a long beach away from the lake. Is

500
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:27,599
my whole 20 acres that touches the water
included in this or is it just a lot

501
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:31,760
size
or double lot size

502
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:35,559
that's included?
>> It's just the 50,

503
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,799
but the requirements would only apply to
that.

504
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:44,319
» Okay, that's what I was already at the
green belt,

505
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:48,240
» right? So, this is only extending 10 ft
beyond the green belt area.

506
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,079
It's the same about 50T.

507
01:04:53,280 --> 01:05:00,119
» 25.
>> I thought it was

508
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:00,119
» Well, it says two different numbers.

509
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,880
» I thought it was 50.

510
01:05:04,799 --> 01:05:14,960
» Read the definitions. Under definitions,
it says 50 ft. And then when you go to

511
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:20,720
the 4, whatever it says, it says 25.
>> And so you have to You defer to the the

512
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:23,720
ordinance the stipulated ordinance in
case

513
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:41,119
» in the way that this is written you know
you look at that section 4.11 which is

514
01:05:39,359 --> 01:05:44,839
section
belt on your

515
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,799
Aren't you
>> making it more restrictive if you want

516
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,359
to?
>> You wouldn't have a bigger green belt.

517
01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:56,400
You just wouldn't be able to build the
structure

518
01:05:52,880 --> 01:06:02,839
in 50 ft from high water mark
other than like you know things that are

519
01:05:58,799 --> 01:06:02,839
listed like a dock and

520
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,160
» that already exist

521
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:14,599
already exist on
>> this would go beyond existing

522
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:23,400
» I wish my son was here because he thinks
I just get this. Um,

523
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:31,359
what's so hard about this
>> right now? Right now, if I have a lot on

524
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:38,400
Lake Michigan, I cannot build within 50
ft of ordinary high in

525
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:42,960
that waterfront overlay district. What
changes?

526
01:06:40,799 --> 01:06:44,799
» You still can't build 50 of the water,
right?

527
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:50,079
» Correct.
>> But there are additional things

528
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:55,200
landscaping requirements. There are
there are you're being requested to

529
01:06:52,640 --> 01:07:01,920
build what's called the vegetative area,
not the native plant area. So there are

530
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:07,280
additional requirements in this.
>> This would be curious to read.

531
01:07:05,119 --> 01:07:13,480
» Yeah. And the goal is of course protect
shoreline and keep your shoreline and

532
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:13,480
water quality.

533
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:20,359
So this elaborates on the existing

534
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:27,440
» Curtis I had the same question you did
and I put together a document and I'll

535
01:07:25,839 --> 01:07:31,599
forward it to you on the difference
between green belt and waterfront

536
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:35,599
overlay. There is some distinctions and
it's a real simple table that's easy to

537
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:39,680
understand. I'll forward that to you.
I'll make a note.

538
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:44,559
» I like easy too.
Um all right. So guys, so Mark, you're

539
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:49,760
saying don't put on the height lot
limitations. You're suggesting just

540
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:54,640
leave it as in they'll look at the it's
under CR. So we got what we got in CR.

541
01:07:53,119 --> 01:08:01,839
» That would be my suggestion.
>> Okay, I'm okay with that.

542
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:08,480
» I wonder about and be one that I just
wonder. Yeah, it says 50 feet land from

543
01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:13,280
the ordinary high water mark and it's
hard. I still don't understand how they

544
01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:19,679
get that and I've read it several times
on

545
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:24,080
but I also I just wonder
if

546
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:30,400
I mean you might be a foot or so above
but if the property is the same level

547
01:08:26,719 --> 01:08:35,520
for 100 ft and the the lake comes up two
feet and sits right in your house then

548
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:41,920
so I don't you know does that we have to
take that into consideration I don't

549
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:48,040
These numbers aren't average, you know,
and I think the last, especially this

550
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:48,040
last year, it's kind of threat

551
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,440
commission office.

552
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:08,159
» It's current.
>> Yeah, it's current, but you know,

553
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:14,960
probably not. It's probably too soon,
>> but we can amend this. Yeah,

554
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:20,719
» there's a website called lakebrief.com
and they have rolling updates on I found

555
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:27,080
it after
but they have rolling updates. They do

556
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:27,080
it every two years. They faced

557
01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:35,040
and what they have is consistent with
what county has.

558
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:42,719
» Okay.
>> But that might change soon.

559
01:09:38,799 --> 01:09:47,359
Okay. Something to keep an eye on.
>> And they do change, you know, Melrose

560
01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:53,799
Township
where they have I mean the high water

561
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:53,799
mark was established in 1916.

562
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:10,719
» Does any of that affect insurance?
a lot of places were underwater when St.

563
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:15,679
Clair came up and I don't know if they
have problems with that or not or if

564
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:21,679
they look at those setbacks and whatever
in terms of that

565
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:27,679
» I mean some of the reasoning to do some
of that setback and is because

566
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:33,600
if the water goes up there does that
mean it's into the septic tank or in the

567
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:38,000
sewer systemever whatever
contaminated as well. I know that was

568
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:42,040
some
>> that's part of the reason why

569
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:49,600
» to me at least you kind of want to use
the high water mark. I live on Michigan

570
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:51,920
and it was really high.
>> Yeah.

571
01:10:52,320 --> 01:11:01,520
We lost a lot
of

572
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:07,719
answer question forward new construction
a low level lot that's flat all the way

573
01:11:04,719 --> 01:11:07,719
back

574
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:17,800
» they're going to have an elaborate field
that's going to be nowhere near the lake

575
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:17,800
» even if they're pumping it quart

576
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:27,120
is going with new construction
that's out there out there already.

577
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:33,600
» And that's that's a big thing had this
chat I know with Alex and some other

578
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:37,920
people. Russian ro the lakeside of
Russian road.

579
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:42,320
How come he's got that? How come they
can do that? Oh, it's been there

580
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:46,000
forever. I mean you know what you're
talking about this overlay that's great

581
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:51,840
but it's it's only going to be for
something that gets built new. You can't

582
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:56,800
on any of the old stuff. I got you got
nothing to say about that.

583
01:11:53,600 --> 01:12:04,120
» And most of it's old stuff.
>> So, and this isn't the first year,

584
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,120
but

585
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:13,040
» I hear what you're saying, Chris, but it
is our job.

586
01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:17,360
» Absolutely. I get it. I get it. I just
>> lot of nonformance.

587
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:22,640
» It's a lot.
>> And the other is we can tie this to the

588
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:26,239
entrance county numbers and put as
>> so when the county updates their numbers

589
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,840
will automatically
>> Okay, that's a great idea.

590
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:33,840
» We'll just have to make sure you know
keep a copy of this around.

591
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:40,679
» Okay, I like that.
>> I'm guessing all the money spending on

592
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:40,679
the lights are preparing these numbers.

593
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:49,679
» Yeah, I would suspect that'll be
helpful.

594
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,679
All right. Um I

595
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:56,320
And so in this I'm the one that proposed
it now. I'm the one that's going to

596
01:12:53,360 --> 01:13:02,159
strike it. I just proposed it. Wondered
about tents in the lakefront over

597
01:12:59,199 --> 01:13:06,640
waterfront overlay and I'm just going to
strike that and we'll take a reactive

598
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:11,120
position instead of a proactive position
and we'll just keep in touch with our

599
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:14,320
zoning administrator and if he's hearing
things then we'll amend it. So strike

600
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:19,520
that.
>> Okay.

601
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:23,679
I I have a question that I read at the
end there four. It says waterfront

602
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:27,840
development shall maintain to the
maximum extent possible open and

603
01:13:25,679 --> 01:13:34,159
unobstructed views to the waterfront
from adjacent properties, roadways and

604
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:38,960
pedestrian ways. Why do they have to do
that? If that's your property, why do

605
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:46,239
you have to I I could see maybe your
neighbor, but again, it's your property.

606
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:50,239
So I to me that seems
Well, it's that might be something you

607
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:54,239
want to check out. I mean, that's why it
says shall maintain to the maximum

608
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:59,920
possible. The idea is you want
everyone's home to be in line so

609
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:03,920
nobody's view either side is obstructed,
but somebody might have a compelling

610
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:11,040
reason why they have to go closer. You
know, maybe it's wet land

611
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:15,920
or something. So, this isn't a hard
section of the ordinance to enforce.

612
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:21,480
It's to maximum possible. That being
said, those are the kind of sections

613
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:21,480
that are

614
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:28,400
captain needs to take a hard look at
that. You know, again, this came from

615
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:34,480
another community just as a conversation
uh for Banks Township. Um and that one

616
01:14:32,719 --> 01:14:39,040
has been somewhat controversial in the
other community,

617
01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:44,320
» but I know someone that built on Lake on
Michigan Avenue in Charlotte and there

618
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:48,159
was empty lot. He bought it and he built
and the lady next door was all up in

619
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:54,239
arms because it blocked her view and
it's like he was all in all the setbacks

620
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:58,400
and everything, right? wanted that view.
She should have bought the lot before

621
01:14:55,679 --> 01:15:05,560
him and then she would have had it.
>> Kind of ironically she had built a lot

622
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:05,560
of other stuff on his property.

623
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:13,360
» Um, do you want to wait and see what
Catherine says about that or do you feel

624
01:15:10,719 --> 01:15:18,480
strongly you'd like to strike that?
>> I I guess we can see what Catherine says

625
01:15:15,199 --> 01:15:22,719
about it. I mean, it sounds like it's
not set in stone.

626
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:25,199
» No, it's not. She she maybe won't like
that provision. She'll ask it to be

627
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,199
deleted.
>> Okay.

628
01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:37,040
» And then the last thing I have on this
um future I I have a question on our

629
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:43,600
future land use map. So we are proposing
this overlay. It is consistent with our

630
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:49,960
future land use map. Um but maybe I'll
draw your attention. Let's just as an

631
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:49,960
example look at little torch.

632
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:59,600
And you see how the overlay is only on
the western side of the lake

633
01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:04,800
» and the big chunks are not. And so and
same with really everything. Lake

634
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:10,080
Michigan and then Ellsworth Lake. Of
course, Sinclair isn't on here as a

635
01:16:07,679 --> 01:16:18,880
waterfront overlay, but um excuse me,
St. Clair, not Sinclair. Um do we have

636
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:24,719
the authority to because the board to do
these lakes, Lake Michigan, these

637
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:29,440
specified lakes to to put the overlay on
all of the lake or do we have the

638
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:34,239
authority to do that
>> and should we do that? Yes, you have the

639
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:39,679
authority to do it because you know the
the future land use the map in the

640
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:44,960
master plan is conceptual you know it's
almost aspirational in terms of this is

641
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:48,960
what we think is going to happen but the
zoning ordinances

642
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:54,159
the rules that are you know in place
now. So if the planning commission the

643
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:59,360
board ultimately thinks that the
wateration should apply to all all

644
01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:03,920
parcels that above the water, you can
deviate from the future.

645
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:07,520
» Okay, that's helpful. And what do you
guys think about that? I mean Dave, you

646
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:12,640
live on little torch and they've got all
these big parcels around.

647
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:18,960
» You can't get within 100 foot anywhere
that there is a house already. So it

648
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:23,679
would I mean it's all swamp
>> on the

649
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:29,360
and then a big hill up to Richard. So
you could build a house on the property

650
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:33,280
up there, but the lake is
>> I'm speaking up to because I know

651
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:37,920
» Yeah,
>> right. So, you know, eaten lake is

652
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:42,320
swamped all around it.
>> That's not in this lake isn't

653
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:48,640
» I know, but you're saying all
>> no all streams, creeks, and I thought

654
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:53,760
» the connecting water
>> I The only reason some of it would be

655
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:59,440
safety wise that's all but he's right
the house

656
01:17:55,440 --> 01:18:05,600
kind of weird point that it would seem
like you would do it for all of them.

657
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:10,239
» Yeah. Do you guys want to think about
that or should we just put it forward

658
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:16,880
with like so this would be all orange
then this whole thing even the big big

659
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:20,320
parcels. But again the reason I I asked
that is because we have

660
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:26,800
act that we're six months away from
enacting and all of these could get

661
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:30,800
small parcelled out. So I guess I would
say do the whole thing according you

662
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:35,360
know the board asked us to do the whole
water body. I would say stick with that

663
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:42,239
and if they want us to pair back we can.
>> Yeah. And it's it it's I think easier to

664
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:46,640
apply it to all the parcels just the
waterways identified in the ordinance

665
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:52,400
because if you did it you didn't you'd
have to justify why this orange property

666
01:18:50,000 --> 01:19:00,080
on Lake Michigan it applies there but it
doesn't apply. I think that

667
01:18:55,840 --> 01:19:06,239
it torch lakes it wouldn't make any
difference and anyone building their

668
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:07,440
restrictions you can't put anything
down.

669
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:12,199
» Okay.
>> So changing it to a overlay

670
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:24,719
» make a difference
but it's protected in the event that

671
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,600
someone.

672
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,960
» Okay.

673
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:40,719
» Yeah.
>> But anything more on this you guys? I'd

674
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:46,080
like to if not I'd like to button this
up too and send it a version to

675
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:50,360
Catherine and then maybe have a public
hearing on November.

676
01:19:54,880 --> 01:20:02,400
Oh, pictures. You put in pictures here.
Ken, do you want to add pictures?

677
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:08,560
» Well, just just, you know, because I
wanted to provide again, this comes from

678
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:12,719
so, you know, it's requiring people to
build their structure in the forest

679
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:17,199
vegetation area, not the natural
vegetation.

680
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:20,880
» So, that's kind of what it
this shows 60 ft. We're only talking

681
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:27,280
about
But, you know, this requires people to

682
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:31,520
basically put their homes out of the
sensitive dune landscaping and into the

683
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:36,000
trees more or less.
>> Okay. Um I have se and every ordinance I

684
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:38,480
looked at they always have a picture.
>> Yeah.

685
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:42,159
» And so I would I would like to include
that as I think it's helpful to

686
01:20:40,719 --> 01:20:46,600
» the residents and I think it's helpful
to the zoning administrator and

687
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,520
» then you put in information here from
Eagle. Is there anything more you wanted

688
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:57,120
to highlight about that?
>> No, that was just because I couldn't

689
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:59,440
find what you found.
>> Okay.

690
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:03,760
» And so I contacted Eagle and they
basically said, "Well, we can tell you

691
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:07,320
how to calculate it yourself
>> and that's what this

692
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:14,560
I just disregard.
>> Okay,

693
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:18,280
very good.
Moving on to RVs.

694
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:29,280
Everybody get their ordinance out.
So, our goals with this increase use of

695
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:35,520
time, making it seasonal, avoiding
substandard housing situations.

696
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:42,159
Um,
the first We talk about you can use you

697
01:21:39,679 --> 01:21:46,239
can use an RV any district with a single
family dwelling. Second one has to be

698
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:50,880
screened. There's really no deviation
from current. Number two talks about

699
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:58,960
storage and here's where the big change
is. Um you

700
01:21:54,480 --> 01:22:03,520
can store it May 15 through December 1st
if there's no township ordinance

701
01:22:00,639 --> 01:22:07,760
violations or civil infractions and then
it has to be pulled. So that's a big

702
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:12,639
deviation
from our current.

703
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,239
» It's any lot, right? Yes. Any any
parcel.

704
01:22:14,159 --> 01:22:21,600
» Yes. Any zoning district. But here's one
thing. I was so focused on the mechanics

705
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:25,920
I missed this. There is no we we need to
specify districts because there is no we

706
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:30,560
can't have ours in manufacturing or
village manufacturing. So we need to

707
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:35,520
specify the five districts.
>> I would So that's um

708
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:45,600
CR R1 mobile home and village
and I would add that that back in the

709
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:50,880
specified the district. Okay. So is that
clear Curtis? You can't have you can't

710
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:53,920
store them in manufacturing or building
manufacturing unless they have a self

711
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:58,080
storage unit and then that's another
matter.

712
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:00,560
» So that's a pretty big change. You're
allowed to store one

713
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:04,639
» one.
>> You can store.

714
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:09,840
» Yes.
>> No. Well, this is we're just talking

715
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:16,239
about storage still in two
>> vacant parcels, one RV May 15th through

716
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:24,239
December 1st. That's kind of the summary
of that. Three and four are the same.

717
01:23:21,199 --> 01:23:30,480
Five is pretty much the same. One RB any
district May 15th through December 1st.

718
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:35,760
So that shouldn't be in manufactur.
>> Correct. Yeah. No, that was just

719
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:40,280
something I overlooked. But I'm not the
only one because it's from an old

720
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,280
ordinance.

721
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:50,159
Six is two RVs and then the five
districts,

722
01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:57,400
one to three acres,
45 days. And that's an increase of 15

723
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:57,400
days over our previous

724
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:11,280
and seven.
>> I have a question. Okay. So, is

725
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:16,320
» I thought if you had one, you can have
it there from the 15th through the

726
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:20,719
December 1st. But if you have two or
more, it's only 45 days

727
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:25,600
» in one to three acres.
But your one your one can be there from

728
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:29,440
May 15th to December. You're only
talking about the second

729
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:32,960
» third or fourth or whatever, right?
>> Yep, that's correct. So, how do we

730
01:24:30,719 --> 01:24:36,560
clarify that? How do we word it
differently?

731
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:39,520
» I think self-explanatory.
>> Yeah, I think it, you know,

732
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:45,199
» you're allowed in the above.
>> If you want to have two or you know, two

733
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:50,239
um you know, you're allowed the one.
>> You could you could clarify it by saying

734
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:54,480
the second. You can say two are allowed.
The second RV

735
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:56,400
» is restricted to 45 days.
>> Okay.

736
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:59,280
» And then you could do the same thing
with the next one.

737
01:24:57,440 --> 01:25:02,880
» I think that's much clearer.
>> The second, third, fourth and or fourth,

738
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,520
whatever.
>> Is that 45 also?

739
01:25:04,239 --> 01:25:09,520
» Yes.
>> Yes. So numbers,

740
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:11,199
» you can have four RVs on over three
acres.

741
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:15,840
» Yes.
>> Or month and a half. Six weeks.

742
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:19,600
» Correct. In five districts.
>> Yes.

743
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:23,840
» And That's unchanged from our current
use

744
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:28,560
because it was 15 and applied for 15 and
applied for 15. So the use there change.

745
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:31,560
We just we just say are saying
>> 45

746
01:25:32,639 --> 01:25:38,880
[clears throat] those five districts for
45 days.

747
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:46,880
» I'll just add a section saying this
section doesn't apply in the village.

748
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:49,440
» Okay. Okay. rather than just
the top.

749
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:53,840
» That works for me.
>> So you can't have more than four.

750
01:25:51,600 --> 01:26:01,080
» No, it's a campground.
>> State road.

751
01:25:57,199 --> 01:26:01,080
» That's not a big

752
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:13,280
and then of course it's subject to the
sanitation code and all that. So how is

753
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:20,760
this sitting with you guys? Are you
It's a big departure from current

754
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,760
everybody comfortable with this.

755
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:29,280
» Okay. Well, let's have let's put those
changes in and I'm going to forward that

756
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:33,840
to Catherine just to get some feedback
from her

757
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:41,159
and maybe we'll call for a public
hearing in November on this too. Any

758
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:41,159
further comments, questions?

759
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:51,800
Ken, did you get all of that?
>> I did.

760
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,800
» Okay.

761
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:04,239
» All right. Setbacks. Um, Ken's forwarded
to you

762
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:10,320
a new ordinance,
a revised ordinance, an amended

763
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:18,080
ordinance that says it moves setbacks in
R1 from 30 to 20. Um, you remember last

764
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:21,280
meeting at the end of the meeting in
public comment time, Marv said, "Hey,

765
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:26,400
you guys, are you sure you're following
the rules here or is this you better

766
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:30,320
check on this?" And indeed um we were
out of order there. So we have to have a

767
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:34,960
public hearing. We can't vote and say
no, we don't want to take this up. We do

768
01:27:32,639 --> 01:27:40,800
have to have a public hearing on this
and so um I would make a motion that we

769
01:27:38,480 --> 01:27:44,719
have a public hearing again another fund
on in November for this. But we can I

770
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:48,239
guess I can call for the public hearing
the next meeting.

771
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:51,600
» Yeah. And Katherine needs to look at it
first. I think that's the procedure.

772
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:56,719
» Yep. So we'll have Catherine look at
this. But we will have a public hearing

773
01:27:53,360 --> 01:28:00,320
on this and It's because um I was out of
order and I'll take responsibility for

774
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:02,800
that. So this will get discussed
further. We can deliberate further at

775
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:07,320
our
>> What are you What are you doing? What

776
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:07,320
are you changing?

777
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,320
» Okay.

778
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:20,000
» And that's all I have to say about that.
Talk about that more. All right. Data

779
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:23,040
center.
Um

780
01:28:21,631 --> 01:28:26,560
[cough]
We went to [clears throat] I I learned

781
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:31,120
quite a bit at the conference about this
and I'm really there's a lot of great

782
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:35,120
information coming up. Ken, do you want
to share any highlights about data

783
01:28:32,639 --> 01:28:40,080
center?
>> Um, we can send us the ordinance that's

784
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:45,840
out for all Michigan Township
Association townships to have at if they

785
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:49,679
so choose. So that's in your packet. I
am not prepared to make any motion or

786
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:54,960
movement on this. I want to take up our
full time to learn all that we can about

787
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:59,360
and things like that. So, and there's no
rush to do that. We have the moratorum.

788
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:05,440
Um, so
read through that ordinance. Um, and is

789
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:09,360
there anything you'd like to share? I I
to share, but always

790
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:13,040
say about what you learn.
>> Well, just Katherine gave the

791
01:29:10,719 --> 01:29:18,880
presentation, you know, I I thought you
very well done. It was not the sky fall.

792
01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:25,040
It was, you know, this is a unique
enough land use that should enact a

793
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:32,000
moratorum to at least give you time to
research to determine whether or not you

794
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:35,840
need to add something to your own. Um,
you know, the MTA, the Michigan

795
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:41,120
Association did that template ordinance.
It touches on all the areas that have

796
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:46,159
been flagged as maybe problematic with
the large scale data centers. Um, there

797
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:50,320
are four four types. There's the ones
that are grabbing the head, the utility

798
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:53,280
scale ones, but there are smaller scale
ones, too.

799
01:29:51,679 --> 01:30:00,080
Um,
you know, it just Catherine basically

800
01:29:55,440 --> 01:30:03,867
said, you know, work on this legal
counsel.

801
01:30:01,847 --> 01:30:03,867
[clears throat]

802
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:14,239
» She also said that he thought areas
where electronic transmission lines and

803
01:30:11,199 --> 01:30:18,320
gas lines cross, that's where these are
going to go. That's where they want to

804
01:30:15,679 --> 01:30:24,639
be. That's their sweet spot, so to
speak. So, not too many of those

805
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:32,120
Northern Michigan, but you know we
talked about everything electronic they

806
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:32,120
find a way to do it smaller better

807
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,960
ask you ahead of time. Is there anything
you want to share about that as soon as

808
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:45,199
you
>> I made lots of

809
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:50,719
prepare you?
>> Um

810
01:30:46,719 --> 01:30:56,800
no not really I mean I generally just
think we need to keep an open mind. We

811
01:30:53,840 --> 01:31:02,800
want to have some protection but and I
think they're gonna change you know I

812
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:06,040
mean computers got smaller watch that
does everything.

813
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:15,679
So I think um we just need to just be
careful. I think we they're necessary.

814
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:20,719
So, we can't just turn a blind eye and
say we won't.

815
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:23,920
Is it likely to come here? Not
>> not the hyper.

816
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:28,400
» No. No. I mean, [clears throat] I think
they're going to mostly all be hyper.

817
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:33,520
It's like, why you spend so much money
on a little one when you can spend

818
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:37,239
probably less money for whatever and
build a bigger one.

819
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:46,159
She did say one thing. If you have an
area in your community where high

820
01:31:43,679 --> 01:31:50,960
tension wires, a real good electrical
source, and a good water source come

821
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:53,679
together that those are spots that
they're going to hone in.

822
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:57,040
» Yes.
>> And so you have to be careful. And if

823
01:31:55,199 --> 01:32:02,960
you look at that map, we really And it
technically it has to go in a

824
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:08,840
manufacturing zone. So we really don't
there's a little one in Atwood and then

825
01:32:04,639 --> 01:32:08,840
there's one at the end of the

826
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:13,520
change.

827
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:24,000
Okay, I won't duplicate any of your
information. I know one thing that was

828
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:28,239
of interest to me there can be
developers cannot have any NDAs for

829
01:32:26,639 --> 01:32:31,199
confidential agreements. So, they have
to be very forthright when they come

830
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:35,679
into your community and let their
intentions be known up front. Um,

831
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:40,400
regarding the type of building, they're
more they're a cross between industrial

832
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:44,880
and office manufacturing. So they want
them mostly in the industrial zones, but

833
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:51,199
we could potentially have one in a
manufacturing zone. Um the smaller ones.

834
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:54,880
So yeah. So we'll just keep reading and
learning.

835
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:59,199
» There was a a workound too though. She
mentioned about trying to if they come

836
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:04,400
and want to do something, try to
negotiate with them because you can get

837
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:09,360
benefits out of it. But I can't
remember. I'm sorry I didn't look that

838
01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:17,199
over specifically, but there was a that
you could go to the state and get under

839
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:22,239
and get an okay to put it in there.
There were some qualifications for that.

840
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,760
I don't
>> Yeah,

841
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:27,520
» you remember that?
>> Yes, there's 10 case 10 or 11 cases

842
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:30,520
right now where they skipped the
township,

843
01:33:30,639 --> 01:33:37,520
» but those were those were renewable
energy. So, that was either solar, wind

844
01:33:34,719 --> 01:33:42,400
or battery energy storage.
There's a specific

845
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:47,040
I thought that was interesting too that
I think we talked about this way back

846
01:33:44,159 --> 01:33:53,040
when you know there's a state law that
regulates the large scale solar wind

847
01:33:49,199 --> 01:33:57,199
battery energy storage and facilities
have the right to appear by those rules.

848
01:33:55,280 --> 01:34:02,239
However,
they've had 11 applications and in two

849
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:08,560
years they haven't approved a single one
of them. So these facilities are willing

850
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:13,600
to work with the locals even if their
requirements are more stren they know I

851
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:16,800
wait six months I wait two years and
it's been two years and they haven't

852
01:34:14,719 --> 01:34:21,440
received approval from the state so I
thought that was pretty interesting

853
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:26,800
» the other thing that I just remembered
and I we have to be careful of how we

854
01:34:23,679 --> 01:34:31,520
define essential services
because these data centers providers are

855
01:34:28,639 --> 01:34:37,120
making the argument we're an essential
service and a lot of ordinances provide

856
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:42,080
that essential services are exempt from
zoning. So they're trying to squeeze

857
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:45,840
themselves in for that. So you know we
got the moratorium in place and I'll

858
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:48,840
make sure that our definitions and other
things

859
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:57,760
well
I went down

860
01:34:54,880 --> 01:35:03,360
I don't see the water consumption as an
issue.

861
01:34:59,679 --> 01:35:07,600
The water disposal is an issue.
They have a lot of

862
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:16,760
internal they don't use as much water as
they started out as they still use

863
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:16,760
that dispos

864
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:33,679
have to generate power that kicks back
to the grid

865
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:39,520
drains the grid.
And I don't there's one spot that I came

866
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:45,400
up with with my that hey this is away
from residential areas away all that

867
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:45,400
stuff

868
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:53,920
where I came up with that where I would
put it away from I don't see it getting

869
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:57,480
approved this industrial
space or the

870
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:03,120
manufacturing
small

871
01:36:00,719 --> 01:36:07,840
» they are but they the data centers are
getting smaller. One of the smallest

872
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:13,920
ones is called the edge edge and it's
called um it's on the edge or public

873
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:19,520
activity and it's it's considered a data
center for zoning purposes and um it's

874
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:23,679
really the
analogy they made is like the size of

875
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:27,199
your neighborhood corner store. So
there's something that would fit in our

876
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:32,880
manufacturing district that would be
considered a data center in the smallest

877
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:35,920
one of the
largest one is concept was a hypers

878
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:42,080
scale. Think of that like your Walmart
super center massive footprint um and

879
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:46,880
its own campus the middle one was called
collocation. Think of that like a large

880
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:50,960
apartment building for zoning purposes
but the only thing that lives in that

881
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:58,480
large apartment building is computers
and then edge

882
01:36:53,280 --> 01:37:02,880
Unless so that's yeah that's regarding
um and then a question while we were

883
01:37:00,239 --> 01:37:09,520
there I snag can can egg be res to
industrial so I mean would that that's a

884
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:17,920
question
>> we have big agricultural

885
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:24,800
parcels and if Oracle should call Joe
>> we we have a process zoning foring

886
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:30,000
evalation criteria, you know, one of
them is is it consistent with the future

887
01:37:26,639 --> 01:37:36,560
land use? That's only one. So, you know,
we evaluated that under the criteria. I

888
01:37:33,440 --> 01:37:40,560
mean, top of my head, probably not, but
you know, it would be up to the planning

889
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:44,600
commission and ultimately to make that
determination after

890
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:49,560
that process.

891
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:55,920
» Okay. So, keep reading all the articles
and for sharing any articles you forward

892
01:37:53,760 --> 01:38:00,880
to us. They're helpful.
We'll just continue to study offsite

893
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:04,400
impacts about this.
There's no such thing as banning them

894
01:38:02,159 --> 01:38:11,119
out, right? It's a question that gets
asked. You have to find a place for them

895
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:17,280
and then you have to tell them noise,
vibration, all of those things are

896
01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:23,960
over. Is there you say we're going to
allow you edge?

897
01:38:20,239 --> 01:38:23,960
» This is what we're allow.

898
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:35,520
» No. So if Oracle should call our clerk
and say, "Hey, do you have a zone an

899
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:43,000
ordinance for data centers?" The clerk
can say, "Yes, we do." And here it is.

900
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:43,000
And it's just this tiny little area. So

901
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:50,400
» that is what Catherine
If you identify your industrial area as

902
01:38:47,679 --> 01:38:56,520
the zone for data centers and the parcel
sizes are small the large scale work

903
01:38:57,199 --> 01:39:01,960
it
becsu

904
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:19,679
big ones the same noise issue.
>> No

905
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:22,239
small footprint, little offsite impact.
So far,

906
01:39:20,239 --> 01:39:26,480
» the noise isn't what we think of noise
like, well, that's too

907
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:31,119
» it's the frequency that you know the
birds know the deer know that everything

908
01:39:28,159 --> 01:39:33,199
is the dogs are acting weird and it's
like living under the power.

909
01:39:32,719 --> 01:39:36,080
» Yeah.
>> Right.

910
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:40,000
» Yeah.
Right. And all of that keep learning

911
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:43,920
about
this.

912
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:48,040
All right.
review of zoning map.

913
01:39:48,719 --> 01:39:58,400
I'm just going to read
read one more time what was asked of us

914
01:39:54,000 --> 01:40:02,480
from the board. They said
oh look at the planning commission

915
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:07,040
review zoning map proposed changes to
move large parcels from CR and R1 to egg

916
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:14,560
and have waterfront district that would
include conservation and possibly CR and

917
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:18,719
egg. And so that a request and um really
in just thinking about this and

918
01:40:16,480 --> 01:40:24,239
conferring with other people that are
much smarter and know more about all of

919
01:40:20,239 --> 01:40:28,239
this stuff than me. This is um
this every anything we do, any decisions

920
01:40:26,239 --> 01:40:33,840
we make, they have to be based in our
master plan and they have to come from

921
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:40,239
our future language map. And um so
knowing that what I would ask what I

922
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:45,199
would suggest is that we ask our planner
to look at that and then come back to us

923
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:49,280
with recommendations on zoning changes
that are reasonable that he would

924
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:54,960
propose. So and then that would be tied
in of course the master plan. anything

925
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:59,040
else we do in this matter,
you know, if we take this matter into

926
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:05,199
our own our own hands, what we're doing
is circumventing the public process and

927
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:08,719
we can't do that. So,
>> decided not to do that to the last

928
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:13,239
meeting. That was our original request
and then Richard

929
01:41:14,239 --> 01:41:20,400
wasn't on board with that request. That
was very confusing at the last board

930
01:41:17,679 --> 01:41:24,440
meeting. What
was like

931
01:41:24,639 --> 01:41:31,360
» um I can pull up. So are you suggesting
that that request isn't relevant

932
01:41:29,679 --> 01:41:35,000
anymore?
>> Richard, what's your

933
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:52,280
» I did watch the meeting and
>> that's the case.

934
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:57,000
I guess you know just looking

935
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:08,280
it's the splitting of parcels I see some
places it's

936
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:16,400
one or the

937
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:26,719
paper agenda
this quarter this quarter that

938
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:31,639
you're
in or out of whatever you're

939
01:42:34,239 --> 01:42:38,840
» Okay, this won't let me pull up the
minutes.

940
01:42:40,159 --> 01:42:43,880
» I guess I was thinking

941
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:53,199
I [snorts] can remember.
>> Okay. So, Dave, repeat. What? What is

942
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:58,639
it? You think that they rescended this
request or amended it?

943
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:03,000
» Rescended it or amended it or same
people that voted on it to send it.

944
01:43:03,679 --> 01:43:08,320
It's
>> this is I think it's off the table.

945
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:16,920
» My recollection.
>> Okay. Mark, is that you were at the

946
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:16,920
meeting? Okay. Well, that is easy.

947
01:43:28,719 --> 01:43:35,560
That's enough. I don't have anything
else.

948
01:43:43,119 --> 01:43:49,840
Thanks.
While the meeting was going on, somebody

949
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:57,080
text me and reminded me something that
at one point um selling firewood in the

950
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,080
lakeore zone was a problem.

951
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:12,880
» Anybody else?
>> I'd love to go

952
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:18,480
Anderson. Um, just listening tonight,
they were talking about roadside stands

953
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:21,199
and that 50% has to be grown on site.
>> Who's going to enforce going around

954
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:23,840
telling all the little kids that they
can't sell?

955
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:26,800
» I just said I wasn't going to do that.
>> Right. So,

956
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:34,239
» were you here for that? I said
>> that's not You got to try to work that

957
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:41,040
out. Um, when does having a garden won't
be there? Hopefully,

958
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:47,239
that didn't make sense to me. Um,
going back to last month's meeting, I

959
01:44:43,119 --> 01:44:47,239
wasn't here. I did watch

960
01:44:51,840 --> 01:45:02,159
talking about square footages and math
by 200.

961
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:08,639
were ludicrous to ask for the change.
I'd like to remind you that 30 ft back

962
01:45:06,239 --> 01:45:14,760
is 10,000 more square feet that I can't
use

963
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:14,760
apples and oranges.

964
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:26,960
And I guess I'd like to answer what you
mean by your comment.

965
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:31,760
» Okay, we already have this
Well, I took it

966
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:36,159
» Curtis has his only administrator been
to your house and denied you building

967
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:40,320
anything you've proposed.
>> It's not the question I asked.

968
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:44,840
» That's what I meant by my comment.
>> I've known where I live the entire time.

969
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:52,119
» Have you been denied?
right now.

970
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:01,000
So, can

971
01:46:02,480 --> 01:46:08,480
» anything else?
>> Um, I think that the only other thing I

972
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:12,080
was going to say is that if you're
talking the front setbacks between 20

973
01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:16,159
and 30 ft, I think the precedent's
already been established that the 20

974
01:46:14,159 --> 01:46:19,040
foot front setback isn't necessarily an
unsafe thing.

975
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:32,199
I don't think

976
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:59,960
consistency.

977
01:47:03,004 --> 01:47:12,280
[snorts]
>> Okay, got the minutes here. Just got

978
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,280
motion.

979
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:17,400
Motion by Maron

980
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:23,159
and changes to large.

981
01:47:35,679 --> 01:47:43,480
» Yeah.
Okay.

982
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:43,480
So, so game on

983
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:54,320
It was an amendment, not a resending of
the request. And so I would ask

984
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:58,639
to review our future land use map, our
master plan, and come back with

985
01:47:56,159 --> 01:48:05,719
recommended changes
that would seem reasonable for starting

986
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:05,719
point for discussion.

987
01:48:07,440 --> 01:48:10,440
Any

988
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:24,760
other comments? Planning Commissioners
last

989
01:48:20,480 --> 01:48:24,760
call for a motion to adjourn.

990
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:31,800
Call for a motion to adjourn.

991
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:38,719
» Motion.
>> Second.

992
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:43,880
» Support by Richard. All in favor say I.
>> All right. Next meeting October 13th.

993
01:48:40,639 --> 01:48:43,880
Thank you everybody.