1
00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:15,039
supervisors for Monday, August 31, 2026
into order and have a roll call the old

2
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,240
way.
>> Right.

3
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,919
» Well, I am aware that Bob Anderson
mentioned he is not able to come and I

4
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,559
see Jamie McCriedy is not here. Am I
missing anyone else?

5
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:32,640
» Okay, so we've got 27 of the 29 present.
>> Correct. And I don't believe anyone is

6
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,760
online, Lance.
Lance,

7
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:41,840
» nobody's online.
>> Okay. All right. And uh public

8
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:44,480
notification. Are we good?
>> Yes.

9
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:47,120
» Dana was going to lead invocation.
>> No, no. Public notification.

10
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,360
» Public notification. Everything was
noticed according to Wisconsin open

11
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:56,120
meeting laws.
>> Okay. and the invocation our supervisor

12
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,120
Heler.

13
00:19:59,919 --> 00:20:06,080
Dear Lord, thank you for bringing us
together today in fellowship and

14
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:10,880
service. We ask that you grant us your
divine wisdom to make decisions that are

15
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:16,720
not just important for us but for our
families, our neighbors, and all the

16
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:20,640
constituents of Baron County. As we
discuss the future of data centers in

17
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:24,799
our community, we ask for the spiritual
discernment to navigate complex

18
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:30,320
information. Help us weigh the
technological and economic choices

19
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:36,320
before us with a spirit of stewardship,
ensuring we protect the resources and

20
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:41,280
community you have entrusted us in care.
Guide our speech, open our minds, and

21
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:46,720
help us act in a way that honors our
responsibilities and glorifies you. We

22
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:50,799
ask this through you, Lord, and your son
Jesus Christ. And altogether all God's

23
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:56,640
people said, "Amen."
>> Amen. Thanks, Dana.

24
00:20:53,760 --> 00:21:02,720
» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

25
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:08,749
republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

26
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,769
justice for all.
[clears throat]

27
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,280
» Special matters and announcements.
>> Yes. Uh, county board members, you know

28
00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:21,200
that there is a special meeting of the
West Central Wisconsin Regional Planning

29
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:27,039
Commission on Tuesday the 29th of
September. $25 charge to go. Um, you can

30
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:31,520
either please pay that and put it on
your time sheet. We'll repay we will pay

31
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,960
you when we pay your payroll. Please, if
you can if you can attend that, it's

32
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,720
going to be on data centers. I believe
it's going to be Mr. Okonnell will be

33
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:43,360
there as well. Highly recommend you
attend that to learn as much as you can.

34
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:48,559
That's the only thing I have, sir.
Okay. Number five, approve the agenda.

35
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:52,640
Motion by Supervisor Olsson, second by
Supervisor Cook. Any concerns with the

36
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:58,960
agenda?
Seeing none, all in favor indicate by

37
00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:03,280
saying I. I. Say no. Motion's carried.
I'm going to move off my seat and go and

38
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:08,559
sit next to Pete and Dennis in a minute
here. But I just wanted to let you know

39
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:13,200
there is no vote today. It's, you know,
the earliest we'll be voting is is

40
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:18,640
probably October board meeting. Today is
information only. Um, and and today and

41
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:24,960
then what Jeff just referenced,
September 29th down in Oaklair. And what

42
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:28,880
we're trying to do is educate the board
of supervisors so we can make the best

43
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:34,159
decision for the residents of Baron
County. Yes, the I there's going to be a

44
00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:42,159
time when we're going to have to have
public comment, but today I just wanted

45
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:46,559
to try to educate uh the board and also
the same thing on the 29th. So, um

46
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,280
that's it all I've got saying I'm going
to move back into the not it's not the

47
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,600
galley but
>> no to if you have problems registering

48
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:56,960
with that online link with West Central
Regional Planning. I know some of you

49
00:22:55,039 --> 00:23:01,200
have please just give them a call. Mr.
Mr. Chairman, what would be in order now

50
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:05,280
is this would be a member should say, I
move that the assembly go into close,

51
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:11,679
excuse me, I move that the assembly go
into a committee of the whole to

52
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:16,799
consider uh a data center moratorum.
That would be the proper motion. Okay.

53
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:21,760
Motion by supervisor Cook, second by
supervisor Bowski.

54
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:26,400
Is there any concerns with doing that?
It's why we're here. All in favor of uh

55
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:31,520
doing going into the committee of the
whole indicate by saying I. I. Both say

56
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:36,799
no. So we're in the committee of the
whole and I'm now out in the assembly

57
00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:40,799
and Jeff's running the meeting. Okay. I
want to take a little time to talk about

58
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:47,600
what a committee the whole does, what it
affords members and why you see color

59
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:54,320
coding in front of you. So first of all,
it apologize for that. um it does not

60
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:58,400
limit debate and it also allows
supervisors to talk across to one

61
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:04,640
another. That's what a committee the
whole does. And so it it doesn't in a

62
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:09,840
normal meeting at a legislative body for
example supervisor Bakowski would only

63
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:15,760
be able to speak to an item twice.
That is why we have a committee the

64
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:20,400
whole so that you can ask questions
multiple times. What I've done is I've

65
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:24,960
split the county board up into red,
white, and blue teams. I did that based

66
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:29,200
on some reading I did underneath
Robert's rules of order. And what that

67
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:33,200
allows me as chairman to do is I will
ask the red committee what do you have

68
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:38,240
for questions? So in this instance, if
supervisor Bakowski has a question, he

69
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:42,320
asks a question. Then the red committee
members other ones ask questions. Then

70
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:47,360
we go on to the white and the blue
allowing people each a representative

71
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:53,200
amount of time to ask questions. I made
a point about cross cross referencing in

72
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:57,520
a meeting legislative body you address
all things to the chair when you're in

73
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:02,159
committee the whole for example
supervisor Patty Anderson could say to

74
00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:04,799
supervisor vaugh supervisor vaugh you
asked this question could you just

75
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,320
please give me a little bit more
information so I understand what the

76
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:12,799
basis of that question was then you can
give that information and may solicit

77
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:17,360
another question that's the purpose of
the committee of the whole so there are

78
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,279
some pro prohibited actions. You're not
going to make any motions. You can make

79
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:24,400
recommendations to the assembly. You
cannot alter or charge the scope. So,

80
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
we're not going to talk about
large-scale solar. We're not going to

81
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,520
talk about the Vikings losing have
another losing season and and the

82
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:37,600
Packers win in the Super Bowl. We're not
talk we're not going to discipline

83
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:41,520
anybody. Um I'd prefer that um you
cannot generally use our table anything

84
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:46,400
and I'd ask you to do that. So at this
time, so we're on the record and in

85
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,880
commit keeping with Robert's rules of
order, I'm going to get place the

86
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:54,960
statement of business. The statement of
business for the Baron County Board of

87
00:25:52,640 --> 00:26:01,279
Supervisors going into a committee the
whole on Monday, August 31st, 2026 at 1

88
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:06,720
p.m. is for the Baron County Board of
Supervisors to receive information from

89
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:12,559
Mr. Mark O Connell the president and CEO
of Wisconsin Counties Association and

90
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:18,799
Rebecca Roker from Atollus Law to
discuss the possibility and receive

91
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:25,520
information on a moratorum for data for
data mining centers. So with that I am

92
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:30,960
now going to turn over this present turn
over the mic to Mr. Okonnell, let him

93
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:36,000
dis make a presentation. When he is
done, then we're going to allow

94
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:39,760
questions from the board. And so, please
take a piece of paper, write something

95
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,919
down, then we'll take questions at that
time. So, Mark, with that, I'll let you

96
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,640
go.
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Um,

97
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:52,480
good to see uh my friends in the Baron
County Board once again. Uh, thank you

98
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:58,240
for inviting me to participate in in
this meeting. Um,

99
00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:04,400
data centers is not just the issue of
the day in Baron County or in northwest

100
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:10,240
Wisconsin or
in Wisconsin as a whole. It is the issue

101
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:17,440
of the day in the country
uh really quite frankly uh most of the

102
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:21,919
civilized world. It is it is the issue
um and it's not going away. uh

103
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:26,159
artificial intelligence is not going
away and therefore data centers is not

104
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:32,240
going away. So we will be dealing with
this issue as a nation and as states and

105
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:37,279
as communities for quite some time to
come or at least until some other

106
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:42,640
technology comes along that um
supersedes the need for data centers.

107
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:48,080
You have asked me to participate in this
meeting to talk about where we are as a

108
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:55,120
state and provide you with some factual
information which quite frankly um there

109
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:59,919
is a lot of information available uh out
there on data centers.

110
00:27:57,679 --> 00:28:06,080
Some of it is factual, some of it is
hyperbole, some of it is manufactured,

111
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:09,760
some of it is outright false. Um, but
there's a lot of it out there and it's

112
00:28:07,679 --> 00:28:15,279
hard to discern exactly what is true and
what is not. Um, people have opinions on

113
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:20,159
data centers. There is no right or
wrong. People, everyone's entitled to an

114
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:24,960
opinion on a data center. But here
today, I'm going to relay to you what

115
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:30,000
what I know of the data center situation
in Wisconsin. And then we'll go through

116
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:36,159
some of the pros and cons of data
centers. And then we'll talk about uh

117
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:41,120
some of the uh fears and critiques of
data centers and what which ones are

118
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:46,480
legitimate. Uh and I've categorized
whether some of the fears are truly

119
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:51,600
legitimate, moderately legitimate or
really not legitimate at all. And then

120
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:57,200
you need to do what you think is best
for Baron County. And again, there is no

121
00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:03,039
right or wrong. Um I think let me start
off with with this uh as we walk through

122
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:09,600
this conversation
um part of what we need to keep in mind

123
00:29:06,159 --> 00:29:15,760
in my opinion as your staff person for
multiple decades is what our role is as

124
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:21,279
local government policy makers and I say
that not just as county board but our

125
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:28,720
city town and village friends as well.
Uh our our role our responsibility is to

126
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:34,399
create a framework and a structure of
laws, rules, regulations, ordinances

127
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:40,720
such that our citizens and our
businesses can conduct their affairs

128
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:47,200
with a sense of reliability and and
trust that we are moving in a direction

129
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:51,600
that an issue has been well um thought
out and reasoned and that they can

130
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:57,039
conduct their affairs if they abide by
the laws, rules, and regulations that

131
00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:02,799
have been uh well thought out by a
governing body. Uh we might even toss in

132
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:08,960
the state in that regard. Now, the state
has not passed laws on data centers yet.

133
00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:16,000
Uh many counties have, most counties,
almost all counties have not passed laws

134
00:30:11,679 --> 00:30:20,640
on data centers. Um, but our our role as
local government officials is to create

135
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:26,880
that structure and framework,
not necessarily to pick and choose

136
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:32,880
winners. And and I I I I lay the I want
to lay a a a base sort of a a base

137
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:41,120
premise on this.
Um, we set the boundaries, but we don't

138
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:47,840
determine uh who can win or lose within
those boundaries. for example,

139
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:54,159
uh it's really not our role to say we're
going to allow uh large structures to

140
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:58,880
occur like warehouses to occur in a
particular geographic area. We're going

141
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,720
to allow CVS, but we're not going to
allow Walgreens. That would be picking a

142
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,159
winner and loser. We're going to allow
Walmart, but we're not going to allow

143
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:11,279
Amazon. That would be picking winners
and losers. If both abide by the laws,

144
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:16,080
rules and regulations that we have set
up in our structure and framework, then

145
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:20,080
they should be able to conduct business
if they abide by those laws, rules, and

146
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,720
regulations. And if they do not, then
they need to abide by the legal system.

147
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:29,520
The legal system will will play its
role. And there may be penalties,

148
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:33,360
perhaps suspension of activity, possibly
even up to termination of that activity,

149
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,840
whether that's a business or an
individual citizen if they violate the

150
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:43,120
rules of society. as you as a county,
city, town, village or state have so

151
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:48,399
determined. That's but that's our role.
The reason we have it that way is

152
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:53,440
because the citizens and our businesses,
our communities need some sense of

153
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:58,720
reliability that we are not going to
shift from one end of the spectrum to

154
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:03,919
the other based on the whims of an
individ of of an individual body. Let me

155
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:11,840
give you an example.
Uh and it will be a ludicrous example.

156
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:18,799
If if if we if we made public policy
based on our whims of picking winners

157
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:22,000
and losers and what we what we felt, for
example, and let's use data centers, I

158
00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:27,679
guess, because it's the issue of the day
as an example. We really did we if we

159
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:33,919
didn't really know what data centers
what we what we liked or disliked about

160
00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:37,600
them, but we had this uh inner feeling
that we didn't like them. So, we're

161
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:42,880
opposed to them even though we maybe
didn't necessarily know why. And we took

162
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:46,799
action to say no data centers. Well,
we'd be picking a winner and a loser

163
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,720
because we're saying other large
operations who might abide by laws,

164
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:56,480
rules, and regulations are okay, but
this data center operation who might be

165
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:01,600
abiding by the same laws is not okay
based on our feelings.

166
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:07,200
But what would happen if the next
governing body, county board, city

167
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:12,720
council, village, town, whoever, if that
county board or city council or village

168
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:16,640
said, you know, I like um I like a lot
of older people in my community. Really

169
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:21,679
don't like children. We're going to
we're going to ban child care centers.

170
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:27,919
Well, that's ludicrous and ridiculous
and really quite I mean just super

171
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:33,519
ridiculous.
But that would be picking a winner and a

172
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:38,320
loser. Completely ridiculous. But we
can't have that. It would be that that's

173
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:42,320
unreliable to the citizens to our
businesses. We'd be creating a a

174
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:46,000
scenario where the county board or city
council or village council after that

175
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,039
would say, "We're going to fix that."
And yet, and then we'd have a society

176
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,200
where we'd move from one end of the
spectrum to the other constantly every

177
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:57,039
time there's an election. And quite
frankly, the elections would occur

178
00:33:54,559 --> 00:34:01,519
because there'd be recalls all the time.
We had that a few years ago up in the

179
00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:06,720
eastern part of the state on a few other
issues that occurred, but it's it's not

180
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:10,720
it's not good for our democracy to have
moving from one end of the spectrum to

181
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:16,000
the other yet. That's what it would
that's what would occur. So based on

182
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:22,079
that we need to have well reasoned
public policy based on facts based on

183
00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:29,040
what the issue what the issues really
are before the body and the governing

184
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:34,960
body needs to evaluate and assess the
real issues you may be for or against a

185
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:41,359
particular policy. It is perfectly fine
to be against data centers. There's

186
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:47,440
nothing wrong with that. But be against
what the what the actual issue is. Not

187
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:53,200
necessarily the data center, but if
you're against the the the noise

188
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:57,760
pollution, if you're against uh the the
non-disclosure agreements that are

189
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:03,440
required, I mean, what is it exactly you
would be against? Not just the words

190
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:08,880
data center, and we'll walk through some
of this. So, where where are we today?

191
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:14,800
Well, um on the hypers scale, that's a
nice word for really large uh data

192
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:20,480
center, high large scale operations,
we have six in the state which are

193
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:25,680
upwards of $30 billion uh in size and
there's no real good way to determine or

194
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:30,560
to describe the size of the data center
except basically about basically how

195
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:34,720
much it's like not really number of
units uh or how much how many much

196
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:39,680
megawatts of of power they've been
using, but really the value of the of

197
00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:44,079
the the operation but the these six
operations are in excess of 30 billion.

198
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:49,280
There have been five there are five that
are currently in development not just

199
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:56,640
contemplated but in development and
there are four that were uh estimated at

200
00:35:52,480 --> 00:36:01,920
about 25 billion that were um that were
defeated. uh they were proposed, they

201
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:08,880
were discussed, they were debated and a
governing body uh either defeated the

202
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:14,000
proposal or the entity itself withdrew
after uh for any number of reasons

203
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:21,839
mostly public sentiment.
So let's walk through um the pros and

204
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:25,440
cons of a data center. Uh and I'll I'll
let me just walk through these and you

205
00:36:23,839 --> 00:36:30,000
may have questions and I'd encourage you
to ask all you like. I may not have all

206
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:35,119
the answers to all of your questions. Uh
I'm not an expert in data centers. Uh

207
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:38,240
but I've talked uh with the utility
industry. I've talked with the data

208
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:42,240
center folks. I've talked with opponents
of data centers. Uh and I've talked with

209
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:46,400
many citizens on the issue. So I have
some knowledge of this issue, but it

210
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:51,040
it's not my expertise.
All right. So some of the pros. Well, uh

211
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:56,800
here's what some of the some folks would
say the pros are. Uh, one of the pros is

212
00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:02,160
that it's a large capital investment.
Wisconsin's major projects range from

213
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:07,119
roughly a billion uh to 15 billion. The
billion was the Meta Center in Beaver

214
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:14,079
Dam. The 15 billion was the Vantage uh
operation Port Washington. Uh there are

215
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:18,000
seven projects uh announced in 2025 that
total roughly 57 billion. That's a

216
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:22,400
combination of the six that are
currently in operation and then the five

217
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:28,560
that have been uh that are in
development. A second uh pro is

218
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:33,280
construction employment. Um the Mount
Pleasant operation employed nearly

219
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:38,560
10,000 construction workers over
approximately a 2-year period. uh was

220
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:43,440
the um
in total the the the ones currently in

221
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:47,839
operation are expected to employ roughly
4,000 plus construction jobs mostly

222
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:53,680
union I guess that's in the Port
Washington operation so a lot of union

223
00:37:50,480 --> 00:38:00,079
labor but not entirely uh that is what's
many people would say is a is a is a pro

224
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:05,200
uh another another pro that people
assess to data centers is that uh it's

225
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:10,560
the creation of permanent jobs though
modest relative to uh investment.

226
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:16,079
Microsoft's uh contemplated Mount
Pleasant building employs about 300 or

227
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:21,520
550 full-time employees. Meta's Beaver
Dam will employ roughly a 100. Uh there

228
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:28,000
is a think tank called Brookings and
roughly they say roughly it's 100

229
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:31,839
permanent jobs per large-scale facility.
That is a very rough estimate because

230
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:37,200
large scale has lots of different
meanings. You can have very large large

231
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:42,079
scale or relatively small large scale
but roughly 100 permanent jobs per large

232
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:47,359
scale facility.
Another pro uh utility and grid

233
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:54,880
infrastructure is paid for by the
developer not the county or other uh

234
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:59,280
entities or or uh rateayers. Uh Meta is
funding nearly 200 million in the

235
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:06,800
Alliant Energy substation transmission
upgrades for Beaver Dam. Um the PSC's uh

236
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:13,040
latest tariff order requires very large
customers to cover 100% of dedicated

237
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:18,800
generation and grid costs. And I'll get
into that in just a little bit. Another

238
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:22,160
pro, property and utility tax uh base
growth.

239
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:28,240
I say this I want to repeat that
property and tax base growth not um

240
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:32,480
there there are some there's a negative
to the to the tax issue as well and that

241
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:37,599
is uh sales and use tax exemption we'll
get to that in a second but the property

242
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:42,640
and utility tax base growth uh plus
negotiated community benefits in some

243
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:48,640
deals not all deals but some deals
meta's 10year 15 uh billion dollar $15

244
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:53,520
million contribution to uh Alliance
low-income energy assistance

245
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:59,760
was one example. Uh DeForest, that's a
failed example that that did not go

246
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:04,960
through. The forest deal included a um
guaranteed tax revenue, uh some river

247
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:10,000
improvements and affordable housing
commitments. That did not happen. It was

248
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:14,320
eventually turned down by the DeForest
city council, but that include that deal

249
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:19,280
would have included those things.
Another pro leverage for county govern

250
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:25,359
for local government uh because these
are high value high-profile projects.

251
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:32,560
Communities that engage early have
negotiating power on sighting, buffers,

252
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:38,400
water protection, and um benefit sharing
before any permit is granted. After the

253
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:44,079
permit is granted, your negotiating and
leverage is lessened. Generally

254
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:49,440
speaking, not always, but generally. All
right, let's go to the cons for a

255
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:54,720
moment. The downside of a data center.
Uh what is often mentioned, electricity

256
00:40:52,079 --> 00:41:00,160
cost shift, risk to residential and
small business rate payers. This was um

257
00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:05,280
the central issue in the Wii Energy's
rate case. And I'm going to that that is

258
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:10,000
listed as a as a con, but I'm going to
get to how that was addressed here

259
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:15,440
momentarily. Another downside,
state uh sales and use tax exemption. It

260
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:22,800
reduces state revenue. The projected is
roughly 1.5 billion uh in foregone

261
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:29,040
construction and about 370 million per
year in ongoing statewide uh state and

262
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:34,880
uh sales and use tax. Now, this is a
little bit debatable because um some

263
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:39,200
economists would say if you'd never
built the data center, you wouldn't have

264
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,520
had the sales and use tax anyway. So,
did you really lose it? Well, there's

265
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:49,520
there's no right or wrong to that
debate, but uh roughly $370 million lost

266
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:55,119
because we're not applying the sales and
use tax. Another uh negative

267
00:41:53,359 --> 00:42:00,319
uh water use and private well
contamination risk. Significant driver

268
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:06,160
of the opposition
uh elsewhere in the state has been this

269
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:11,839
issue. Some developers like Meta have
adopted dry cooling design specifically

270
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:15,119
to minimize this. So, the actual risk
varies a great deal by project design.

271
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:20,319
And we'll talk a little bit about this
in just a few minutes. Another downside

272
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:26,480
negative, noise, dust, and light
pollution. Residents near Microsoft's uh

273
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:34,560
fall uh fall water, the Mount Pleasant
project um filed a class action lawsuit

274
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:39,839
in July of 2026 over noise and dust. Um,
noise is commonly tied to diesel backup

275
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:43,359
generators and cooling equipment and is
a legitimate item for sighting and

276
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:48,640
buffer conditions. So, that that was
definitely an issue. Another downside, a

277
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:54,560
negative, uh, farmland and open space
conversion. Uh, the proposed and

278
00:42:52,000 --> 00:43:02,160
rejected projects elsewhere in the state
have uh, looked at roughly 320 to over

279
00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:07,599
1,600 acres of farmland being used per
data center site.

280
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:13,280
Uh, another negative, modest permanent
job counts. We talked about roughly 100

281
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:17,839
permanent jobs per data center. What
what some people say is a negative to to

282
00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:22,640
data centers. It's they they people
would say only modest permanent job

283
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:26,160
counts relative to the scale and
investment and infrastructure

284
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:32,079
commitment. It's a fair point to weigh,
but honestly, um it's again when you

285
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:39,359
look at a uh construction jobs and tax
base, um I'm not really sure that that's

286
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:45,359
much of a con. Another uh negative uh
process and trust risk. All right, this

287
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:51,040
is probably the biggest negative when it
comes to u cons of a data center. uh the

288
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:56,640
non-disclosure agreements that have been
the single it's been the single biggest

289
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:59,839
driver of of public backlash statewide
independent of what communities

290
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:05,040
ultimately decided about the projects
themselves the non-disclosure agreements

291
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:09,200
have been a sticking point almost
everywhere that they that the that

292
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:14,240
they've been in place
um and then lastly a con no statewide

293
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:20,319
legislative framework has has been put
in place as of yet as of mid 2026 the

294
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:26,480
legislature has not passed any data
center specific uh sighting water or NDA

295
00:44:23,839 --> 00:44:29,760
legislation. Uh I'm not sure we're going
to get there depending upon what the

296
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:37,520
what happens with the elections, but I
would not be looking for any major

297
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:44,160
action um uniform action uh that's
imminent.

298
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:49,280
Okay. So with that brief sort of procon
uh let's talk about the criticisms of

299
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:53,599
data centers and I I I want to talk
about whether these are well doumented

300
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:59,520
criticisms
uh and whether they're legitimate or

301
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:06,000
not. So, uh, the number one criticism,
the non-disclosure agreement, this is

302
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:10,720
this has this this secrecy issue, uh,
this is definitely legitimate as a

303
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:14,880
process complaint independent of what
you think of data centers themselves.

304
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,720
It's a governance criticism. It's not
really a crit criticism of the data

305
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:24,720
center itself. It's a criticism of the
governance. Um

306
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:32,560
it's uh this this issue is largely
self-inflicted by the governing bodies

307
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:36,480
and the data center um hierarchy. Uh
they have voluntarily entered into these

308
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:40,319
non-disclosures. Rebecca may speak to
this issue. I'm not really sure even

309
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:45,040
sure that the non-disclosure can be
enforced uh by for a local unit of

310
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:50,000
government, but none nonetheless that
has been a major issue when it comes to

311
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:54,800
uh criticism of data centers. So, it's
that's definitely a legitimate criticism

312
00:45:52,079 --> 00:46:01,280
and it's it comes up all the time.
Another uh criticism critique uh

313
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:05,760
foregone tax revenue via the sales tax
exemption. We talked about it earlier.

314
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:12,400
This is u I'm not really sure that this
is a legitimate critique. Um I wouldn't

315
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:18,079
put this in a strong critique category
because you could argue this either way.

316
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:22,240
We're foregoing uh 370 roughly speaking
of the current data centers roughly

317
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:28,400
sales and use tax revenue as a state and
locals $370 million a year. Um but we

318
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:32,800
wouldn't have had we wouldn't have that
if there were no data centers. So the

319
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:38,240
fact that we're having data centers uh
and we give the the exemption means

320
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:45,119
we're not getting it yet. If we have the
data centers, we are going to get the uh

321
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:49,200
property tax base and income tax for
those that are employed, income tax for

322
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:52,400
all of the construction workers. So
there is some economic benefit there.

323
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:55,359
You can have all kinds of economic
models that will tell you tell you

324
00:46:53,599 --> 00:47:00,640
there's a there's a net positive to
that. But we are foregoing that sales

325
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:04,560
and use tax
uh during the con during the

326
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:11,119
construction. That that is definitely
true. Is this a legitimate critique?

327
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:14,720
It's, uh, technically, factually
legitimate, but I wouldn't put a lot of

328
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:22,160
weight in it.
Um, so, uh, moderately legitimate. Let's

329
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:28,640
go through a couple of those.
Uh, permanent job counts relative to

330
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:34,640
investment. Okay, so Brookings says
roughly a 100 jobs per largecale data

331
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:41,599
center.
Um, as we said, Mount Pleasant has is

332
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:47,920
employing 550. U Beaver Dam is roughly
100. Is it legitimate? Is that a

333
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:52,400
legitimate criticism? Um, I guess
technically

334
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:57,520
I suppose you could say yes. But in
comparison to other economic development

335
00:47:54,800 --> 00:48:01,760
ventures, I'm not sure it really holds a
lot of water. So, if we're going to

336
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:08,079
criticize the existence of a data center
based on permanent jobs,

337
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:12,480
would we not also have to criticize
uh I guess baseball diamonds and soccer

338
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:19,920
fields taking up a lot of land but not a
lot of employees or storage units or uh

339
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:26,240
I mean any number of other employee
employers or operations that have large

340
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:31,680
land use but not a lot of employees. So
that is one where it sort of falls in

341
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:35,599
the category of I don't like data
centers so I'm going to dream up any way

342
00:48:33,359 --> 00:48:43,520
I can to criticize it. So I'm not sure
that's that's much of a legitimate uh uh

343
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:50,640
issue. Another critique uh water use. Um
this is absolutely a legitimate issue uh

344
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:57,680
for the evaporate evaporative cooling
designs but increasingly it is greatly

345
00:48:55,119 --> 00:49:02,000
overstated as a blanket criticism
because several of the Wisconsin

346
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:09,440
projects for example Meta's Beaver Dam
Microsoft's um uh stated design goals um

347
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:15,760
they're using dry cooling or closed loop
systems. So this is one where depending

348
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:20,720
upon the design, it could absolutely be
a legitimate criticism of a data center.

349
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:26,720
But if you're using a dry cooling or a
closed loop, um not so much not so much

350
00:49:24,319 --> 00:49:32,559
of a legitimate criticism. You need to
we would need to know what what type of

351
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:38,960
a uh system is being proposed for the
cooling of the of the of the operations

352
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:44,079
within the data center. Um, so that's
that that could be a legitimate uh

353
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:49,280
criticism or it could simply be a a
straw man type criticism.

354
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:56,319
Uh, noise and light pollution.
Uh, this is u this is a legitimate

355
00:49:52,319 --> 00:50:01,280
criticism. Um, but it's absolutely
manageable. So this has been a criticism

356
00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:07,760
in other operations.
However, uh for example, in one of the

357
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:14,079
in one of the uh operations, uh I think
it was the uh Mount Pleasant one when

358
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:18,800
this was raised, uh they engaged in
barriers or setbacks and so you could

359
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:24,400
mitigate the noise and light pollution
issue during construction and or

360
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:30,480
thereafter. So it this is definitely a
legitimate criticism, but it's also one

361
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:36,640
that by design or modified design can be
addressed. So it's legitimate

362
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:42,640
documented, but it's also flexible.
Um, okay. The cost the another criticism

363
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:46,800
cost shift to taxpayers. Okay, we'll
spend just a little just a few minutes

364
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:50,319
on this because this initially this was
one of the biggest criticisms of the

365
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:54,319
data centers.
data centers are going to come into my

366
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:57,680
community. They're going to use a lot of
power. They're going to build power

367
00:50:55,599 --> 00:51:02,720
plants, trans transmission lines.
They're going to use a lot of power and

368
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:08,000
I as as a small business or a resident
am going to have going to be stuck with

369
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:14,319
a higher bill. Well, in March of 2000,
uh the answer to that is not that's not

370
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:18,480
correct. In March of 2025, uh, we
energies asked state regulators, the

371
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:24,720
public service commission for permission
to create a special electric rate. It

372
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:30,240
was called very large customer tariff.
In other words, very large customer rate

373
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:36,240
for large power users like data centers.
The utility's original plan would have

374
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:42,000
had data centers pay for 75%
of the cost of a new power plant built

375
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:47,760
to serve uh built to serve the data
centers and regular customers,

376
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:53,440
households and small businesses would
cover the other 25% plus the ongoing

377
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:59,520
fuel costs. That was the proposal that
was submitted to the PSC. That was in

378
00:51:55,599 --> 00:52:04,720
March of 25. In April of 26, about a
year later, the public service

379
00:52:01,359 --> 00:52:10,319
commission announced a decision.
They said in plain English, they said if

380
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:14,640
a data center wants power, the data
center is going to pay for it. In other

381
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:21,440
in other words, here are the points.
Data centers, the 7525, they threw it

382
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:26,720
out. data centers have to pay for 100%
of the cost of the power um and

383
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:32,079
infrastructure built for the data
center. It locked the data centers into

384
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:37,599
a 15-year contract. So, a data center
could not come in, get uh power for a

385
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:43,599
few years and then leave. They were
committed for 15 years of that 100%

386
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:48,240
paying for 100% of that cost.
It lowered the size of the threshold for

387
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:54,559
which the comp for which companies had
this rule applied to it. It it was 500

388
00:52:51,599 --> 00:53:01,680
megawatt it went down to 100 megawatt.
So any any entity using a 100 megawatt

389
00:52:58,319 --> 00:53:07,920
or higher this rule applied to it. So
100 megawatts or more you have to pay

390
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:12,079
for a 100% of the infrastructure and the
power that you're going to use to to run

391
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:16,480
your operation.
and it required the utility to report

392
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:20,880
back to the public service commission on
a regular basis. So, one of the one of

393
00:53:19,359 --> 00:53:25,760
the biggest criticisms of the data
centers, they're going to come in, use a

394
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:29,839
lot of power, and others are going to
have to pay for it. The public service

395
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:34,319
commission told Wei Energies, no. Now,
that applies to Wii Energies. Uh I

396
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:38,400
suspect that there will be there's an
appeal of that. I'm I'm not We'll see

397
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:43,520
where that appeal goes. I would be
surprised if it went anywhere, but we'll

398
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:50,640
see. Um I would suspect that there will
be uh similar decisions made uh in

399
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:57,680
regard to other um
other uh ventures in the data center

400
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:59,760
world. Another critique. Oh
>> thank you.

401
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:06,400
» We're almost done and then we then we
can we're we're almost done. Farmland uh

402
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:10,400
open space loss. Um this is uh
definitely a real it's this is

403
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:16,400
definitely real. It's real in terms of
acreage. I, as I said earlier, 300

404
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:22,400
to,600 is roughly what what's been
utilized in the uh data centers.

405
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:30,640
definitely a legitimate issue. But uh
the use of 300 to,600 acres for a data

406
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:35,680
center that is that's it's
comparable or less to many other

407
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:39,280
operations that we use uh for other
types of oper for other types of

408
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:44,319
ventures might be a housing development
or any number of other things. So

409
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:50,800
definitely a criticism, definitely real.
Um but in comparison to others, a body

410
00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:55,040
would have to evaluate that. And then um
getting right getting toward the end

411
00:54:52,000 --> 00:55:00,160
here, uh data centers are increasingly
bad for the local economies. That is a

412
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:06,400
criticism we've heard quite a bit. Uh
the polling that you sometimes hear um

413
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:11,359
cited shows public skepticism, but
there's a sentiment, but that's a

414
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:17,280
sentiment finding, not an economic one.
It doesn't establish the underlying uh

415
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:22,319
that the underlying deals are bad, only
that they're unpopular. Now, that those

416
00:55:19,359 --> 00:55:26,400
are two different things. It might be it
doesn't mean they might be unpopular. It

417
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:32,800
doesn't mean that it's bad. It could be
bad. could be unpopular and bad. Uh but

418
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:38,400
it could be good and unpopular. So you
have to evaluate that. Uh unpopularity

419
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:43,359
and illegitimacy are not the same thing.
They're they're different. That's part

420
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:48,559
of what our responsibility is as local
government officials, city, town,

421
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:53,359
village, county. Um we're not
necessarily here to make the popular

422
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:58,079
choice, but a well-reasoned choice. and
having a data center may not be a good

423
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:03,760
choice in Baron County or northwest
Wisconsin or anywhere may not be a good

424
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:07,839
choice but then again it may you you
have to decide that and there are many

425
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:12,559
more many considerations that you have
to put into the mixing bowl before you

426
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:18,400
make a before you make a decision.
Um

427
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:23,599
let's see um
I guess I'll I'll I'll end there and

428
00:56:20,799 --> 00:56:27,119
then we can open it up to questions. Um,
and uh, we'll see where the conversation

429
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,400
takes us.
>> Yes. Yeah.

430
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:35,119
» So, as I said, I split you up in red,
white, and blue. So, red team, you're

431
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,599
on. First question. Supervisor Cook.
>> Um,

432
00:56:36,319 --> 00:56:42,240
» please use your mic. Please use your
mic, everyone.

433
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:48,480
» Um, very nice job. I I do I am on a
electrical co-op board. uh in Von County

434
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:52,960
and the communities we serve, when the
Sand plants came in, they had to pay for

435
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:58,880
all of their infrastructure 100%
upfront. So when they left um their

436
00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:04,160
substations, well actually our
substations, they they paid for those.

437
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:09,119
So I think of the 24 co-ops at least
that Dairine has, that would probably be

438
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:15,839
something that you would see. Um the
other thing that um you can put into a

439
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:22,160
concern which is real is that uh data
centers don't help our reliability issue

440
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:30,079
in that when it comes to renewables
um data centers run 247 unlike Bitcoin

441
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:36,640
and some other uh types of u data um
issues. These these plants are required

442
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:42,960
to run 247. They do not shut down. So um
from a reliability standpoint um our

443
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:48,319
base load which is our coal nuclear uh
gas generation uh that's what we have.

444
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:54,400
So all the solar fields wind farms that
we put up um do not help alleviate that

445
00:57:51,599 --> 00:58:01,200
issue which is a real issue um moving
forward. But um no u I thought it was a

446
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:06,079
good uh a good presentation. The one
thing I would like in terms of scale of

447
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:11,040
the six that we do have uh in the state,
I know you talked about putting it in

448
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:17,960
billions. Of those six, what is their
footprint in acres? Do we know that?

449
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:17,960
» Uh let me see here. Um

450
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:31,119
uh I don't have the acreage for the
footprint. I have some of the square

451
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:33,280
footage for the facility, but I can let
me see if I can find that and I'll get

452
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,760
it to the body
>> again. And to put it in perspective,

453
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:39,680
when we take a look at some of the
renewables, I mean, everyone talks about

454
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:43,599
how much farmland or in terms of open
spaces actually knowing that uh just in

455
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,040
terms of perspective.
>> Yeah, very good point.

456
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:52,000
» Thank you.
>> I'll see I'll see if I can find that. Um

457
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:56,640
I on the six that are current I know I
can find it on the on the ones that are

458
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:58,960
being contemplated they're guarded with
the information but on the six I can

459
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,160
find for sure.
>> Thank you.

460
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:05,680
» Excellent red team. Other questions?
Supervisor Anderson?

461
00:59:03,359 --> 00:59:14,000
» Yes. This might be rather naive on my
part but why do we need a data center?

462
00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:20,079
Uh well uh artificial intelligence is uh
uses um

463
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:26,720
enor enormous computing power and it
runs through data centers and now um

464
00:59:24,319 --> 00:59:32,160
if you're using Google you really you'd
have to you'd have to purposely not use

465
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:37,440
uh artificial intelligence to use Google
uh which is using a data center. So when

466
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:42,400
you do a Google search, it's running
through a data center. Uh and these data

467
00:59:39,839 --> 00:59:48,240
centers are going to be built somewhere,
Russia, China, India, or the United

468
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:52,079
States. The United States government has
taken the position that if they're going

469
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:55,760
to be built somewhere, they would rather
have them built within [clears throat]

470
00:59:52,960 --> 01:00:02,559
the borders of the United States or
North America rather than u overseas.

471
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:07,040
So, uh, if we did not have data centers,
um, well, I guess it there's not really

472
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:11,760
there's not much reason to talk about
that because it's they're going to

473
01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:17,680
happen, Patty. Uh, and it is it's pure
computing power. Um, the society society

474
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:23,359
is moving very rapidly, whether it's
online medical health, which is, uh,

475
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:26,960
moving incredibly rapidly, whether it's
just

476
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:31,119
young people today making their Tik
Toks. I mean it's it's everything. It's

477
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:34,799
uh but artificial intelligence is
driving a lot of it.

478
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:38,000
» And so the purpose is what do for what
reason do we save this data?

479
01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:43,760
» Do we save it?
>> Why why is it there?

480
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:47,680
» Oh, it's well there's there's
uh saving the data. It's not really

481
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:55,839
saving the data. It's the computing
power of searching um and communicating

482
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:59,599
with all other with with I guess the
metaverse.

483
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:06,480
uh of where all the data is. So these
are not this isn't um an area where a

484
01:01:03,359 --> 01:01:10,240
lot of data is stored so that you do a
search and it goes and looks for it's

485
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:14,720
not like it's a giant encyclopedia where
you go to search for it. That's not what

486
01:01:11,839 --> 01:01:23,680
that is. It's not like a a cloud storage
is this is um massive rapid uh search

487
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:29,119
searching of
millions of

488
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:33,599
uh high-powered chips talking to each
other.

489
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:38,400
» Okay, so let's we just used AI to answer
Supervisor Cook's question. Here they

490
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:43,520
are. the Vantage data center in Port
Washington 2.5 million square feet

491
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:46,720
across four singlestory buildings. So
Mike, so let's go back. You know

492
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:52,960
everybody on this, you know that the
county policy is we use the W extension

493
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:58,079
model of AI. We also site our sources.
So this came from the Wisconsin property

494
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:02,480
map. So I asked this question, what is
the total square footage of the hyper

495
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:07,119
data centers located in Wisconsin? The
Wisconsin property map an answer

496
01:02:04,799 --> 01:02:12,240
answered my question this way. The
Vantage data centers Port Washington 2.5

497
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:16,319
million square feet across four
singlestory buildings.

498
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,319
Need to slide down. Just give me just a
second.

499
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,079
I
>> think you wanted acreage, Jeff.

500
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:25,119
» Oh, you wanted acreage. Can you convert
square feet to acorage, Randy? I thought

501
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,640
you could you
>> by 43,560

502
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:31,760
and they're all single floors. I can I
can get that.

503
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:35,119
» Okay. [laughter] So, Microsoft Fairwater
campus mount.

504
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:40,559
» You have you have the guy right there.
>> Right. Exactly. I That's 1.2 million

505
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:47,040
square feet across three massive
buildings. Microsoft campus Kenosha, 1

506
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:51,920
million square feet across four 250,000
square foot buildings. And finally, the

507
01:02:49,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Meta Campus at Beaver Dam, 700,000
square feet. It's 2.7 3.7 You have 4.2

508
01:02:57,839 --> 01:03:06,400
two million square feet. Randy,
>> I'll tell you how many acres.

509
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:11,680
» Okay, that's okay. So, red team, you're
you're still back. So, uh that would end

510
01:03:09,839 --> 01:03:14,319
with supervisor Gors would be our last
member of the red team. Is there another

511
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,880
question from this group before
supervisor efforts?

512
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:23,839
» Um well, the first question would be
that was just the building space, not

513
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,000
the campus,
>> right?

514
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:31,280
» Okay. So, that's all right.
>> It would be larger than that. Yeah.

515
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:36,799
» Um, going with the electricity and the
power generation. Um, I'm just wondering

516
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:40,720
about and maybe Supervisor Cook can
answer this when he's done doing his

517
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:44,480
math with the acreage.
>> Well, actually, I'm just going to ask

518
01:03:42,319 --> 01:03:47,680
Chad how many acres. He can do the math.
Go [laughter] ahead.

519
01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:51,200
» Um,
so

520
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:57,359
I mean I you hear different things. It's
going to be terrible on the energy. It's

521
01:03:53,039 --> 01:04:02,799
going to Oh, they'll pay for it. Um but
the the the average load, you know, if

522
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:07,599
we get um several of these in the area
or one of these in the area, Dairland

523
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:13,119
Power,
um do they have the capacity for that? I

524
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:18,799
mean there's, you know, to add to that,
I the reason I'm asking is the last two

525
01:04:16,319 --> 01:04:26,160
years there's been issues with Dairland
Power um being down and then or part of

526
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:34,160
their generation being down for two
separate reasons. And then we had to

527
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:39,359
absorb in our bills buying it from other
areas and bringing the power in. And in

528
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:43,440
the middle of winter, if you do that,
it's way more expensive. So, how

529
01:04:42,884 --> 01:04:49,359
[laughter]
how I don't know if I'm explaining it,

530
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:55,200
okay, but how much closer is that margin
where if we get a really cold blizzard

531
01:04:52,559 --> 01:05:00,079
for a couple of weeks or we get 100
degrees for a couple weeks, how much

532
01:04:57,839 --> 01:05:05,359
closer does it put us to having to do
that and try to find power elsewhere to

533
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:10,000
and at a higher cost? I would definitely
put that into the very legitimate

534
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:14,640
question category. Uh and it's it's you
phrased it very well. So the the issue

535
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:22,000
and there's a in our state we have
separated power generation from uh grid

536
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:26,400
delivery. So um in our state well we
have a couple different mostly it's

537
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:32,640
American transmission company uh with
the grid system and then generators of

538
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:39,039
power uh separately. Now there's it's
not entirely that way but it's mostly

539
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:47,520
that way. Um so what the PSC did in
their order is essentially say um that

540
01:05:43,359 --> 01:05:55,039
the u data center is responsible for the
buildout of the infrastructure to to and

541
01:05:51,039 --> 01:06:00,640
and cost to utilize and uh have the
power delivered to the data center. Now,

542
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:04,960
that's
in our plain English. It's kind of mushy

543
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:09,039
language. So, you'd want to be you would
want to have a conversation. If you were

544
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:11,760
if you were serious about uh having a
data center in your area, you'd

545
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,520
certainly want to have that conversation
about what does that mean? How do what

546
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:21,599
does the public service commission order
mean? And how how assured can we be in

547
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:26,160
our community whatever community is
being contemplated that we are not going

548
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:32,160
to be uh in a position where we have to
get power uh and have a potential grid

549
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:35,680
issue. So that might be an ATC question.
It might be a local electric co-op

550
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:40,160
question. I'm not sure what grid system
they might be using, but we'd want to

551
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:45,200
ask that question most assuredly.
>> Yeah,

552
01:06:42,319 --> 01:06:49,839
» if I can. Um you you touched on it. the
problem. Yeah. So all these data

553
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:54,319
centers, my understanding is they have
to have their own backup generation

554
01:06:52,319 --> 01:06:59,119
because if if things happen and we go
into where everyone has to buy peak

555
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:02,880
rates. So her husband, full disclosure,
is on Baron Electric Board with me. Uh

556
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:07,280
we did have an incident where we had a
coal generation plant go down. It was

557
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:10,400
down for two and a half weeks. Uh and we
had to buy off the open market, which we

558
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,920
do anyway. All electricity that's
generated, even if you have a solar

559
01:07:11,839 --> 01:07:18,400
panel um that generates more than you
can use, gets put on the grid and the

560
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:24,079
co-ops uh Durland Power has to buy that
back and sell it to the co-ops. Uh part

561
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:28,880
of the cons is when these peak loads
happen, which uh you guys right now are

562
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:34,640
getting 11 cents, 13 cents a kilowatt
charge. Well, when those peak loads

563
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:40,000
happen, that 11 cents can turn into $111
like that. So data centers have their

564
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:45,440
own most data centers I think all have
backup generation. That's the noise

565
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:54,079
issue. Um because those are typically
either big diesel engines or their jet

566
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:58,240
turbine engines and they make noise.
>> Okay. Red team. Anyone else? That ends

567
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:03,680
at supervisor.
>> I have supervisor Gors. Go ahead.

568
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:11,200
» More of a comment than anything. Uh, I
guess I'm I'm uh I'm a farmer at heart,

569
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:16,000
so I'm big time concerned here with uh
the amount of uh crop land and stuff

570
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:21,120
like that. It's being eaten up by these
solar panels and by these data centers

571
01:08:18,719 --> 01:08:24,400
and stuff like that there. And they and
like I said, what they call them when

572
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:29,759
they sat there and they came out with
these uh solar panels, they said, "Well,

573
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:36,000
it's only going to be 1.6% of the crop
land in Baron County." Well, if you sit

574
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:42,159
there and you go 1.6% on one project and
1.6% on another and 2, all of a sudden

575
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:49,279
we're we've lost uh 10% of our crop
land. And uh and I also like to know if

576
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:56,319
we would sit there and could evaluate
the land there and maybe go use uh put

577
01:08:52,799 --> 01:09:04,560
some of these centers or whatever in uh
marginal land or land that essentially

578
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:07,759
waste land because I mean they sit there
and they they want to go and put it like

579
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:11,920
for instance the what they were talking
in Monomony they were sitting there

580
01:09:09,839 --> 01:09:18,960
talking
well I was looking at watching a TV

581
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:23,120
there. Uh it was beautiful crop flat
crop land. Well, I know that what they

582
01:09:20,799 --> 01:09:29,040
call they don't want to sit there and
use all the dog on uh so much money on

583
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:32,480
on excavating. Well, of course, so
they're going to come in with the

584
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:37,600
flattest piece of property that they can
find and and put put it on just so they

585
01:09:35,679 --> 01:09:42,640
can go out there and just start building
instead of doing the excavating and

586
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:46,239
stuff like that. That's that's just very
disheartening for me.

587
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:53,040
» Well, I I think this might fall under
the um leverage for a local community.

588
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:57,520
Um I mean that that specific comment on
the use of farmland. While

589
01:09:55,978 --> 01:10:06,239
[clears throat] I think you make a very
good point 1.6 1.6 1.6 pretty soon 10%

590
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:11,760
of our land is gone or not not available
for farmland. Uh so it adds up quick. It

591
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:18,560
may seem sound small at first but it
adds up quick. Um but the fact that uh

592
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:24,080
there is a
public backlash whether it's whether

593
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:29,360
it's based on fact or based on feeling
there is a public backlash. So it's

594
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:38,800
being it's difficult in many cases to
site a data center. So if a community um

595
01:10:34,719 --> 01:10:42,480
was interested in uh a data center and
were was going to engage in

596
01:10:40,719 --> 01:10:47,199
conversations
um and if I were the data center and you

597
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:51,520
said to me uh I'm willing to have a
conversation with you but I'd like you

598
01:10:49,199 --> 01:10:57,199
like you to look at marginal land as
opposed to farmland. Um, if I have that

599
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:02,080
conversation with one community and I
have five other communities saying I

600
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:06,239
don't like you, uh, I'm going to go to
the com to the community that says, uh,

601
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:12,159
let's have a conversation about marginal
land. I'd be very open to that given the

602
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:15,840
current, I guess, landscape that we're
that we're involved in. So, I think you

603
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:20,560
have an opportunity if that's what you'd
like to do. You may you may also say, I

604
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:24,640
don't even want it on marginal land.
That's up that's up to the the community

605
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:30,560
itself. But you make a very good point
and uh in a in a in a testy environment

606
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:35,440
think you've got you hold some cards to
say we'd rather have it on marginal land

607
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:40,159
than farmland.
>> I just

608
01:11:37,679 --> 01:11:44,320
All right. I'm going to go on now to the
white team. That'd be supervisor Heler,

609
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:49,949
Jenkins, Krug, Klick, Langman, McCreaty,
Miller, Mon, and Nelson. Do you have any

610
01:11:46,239 --> 01:11:51,840
questions? Supervisor Heler.
>> [clears throat]

611
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:56,239
» when we're uh looking at this, we're
we're talking about using the data

612
01:11:54,560 --> 01:12:01,600
centers for general search and for
looking for things, but uh are the data

613
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:07,600
centers not also integral to data
security and making sure that our data

614
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:12,560
is going to be uh held within the bounds
of the United States and not being

615
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:16,159
shipped out overseas where we don't have
control over our own data.

616
01:12:14,719 --> 01:12:20,640
» It's an excellent point. I mean, the
answer I gave Patty was the pop culture

617
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:26,960
answer. Uh but there is so much more to
data centers and that's why um

618
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:33,600
our federal government has made it
relatively clear that um

619
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:40,080
not only that data centers are going to
exist but uh since they are going to

620
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:47,040
exist uh the choice of their existence
being in a foreign land that may not be

621
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:52,719
friendly to the United States or may not
be friendly to the United states in the

622
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:57,199
future is not uh desirable, but rather
uh having them within the borders of the

623
01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:03,679
United States or at least in within the
borders of an ally of the United States

624
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:09,280
uh is much much preferable due in part
to um a whole host of things, but

625
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:13,840
national security being one of them, uh
data security being another, uh any

626
01:13:12,159 --> 01:13:20,880
number of any number of national
interests make an excellent point, sir.

627
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:25,600
Other questions from the white team.
>> I was wondering um what is the closest

628
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:31,520
proximity that family homes could be
built within or around that data center

629
01:13:29,679 --> 01:13:35,840
uh so they have an environment that is
safe and quiet enough?

630
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:42,320
» That's a very good question. Uh and it
it I'm sorry it's a very good question.

631
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:46,159
It it really depends on the design. Um
there some people have indicated they

632
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:51,840
could hear the data center from quite
some distance away. Uh I have been at a

633
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:58,320
at data center sites that have been
operational. Uh it I had to get within

634
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:03,760
20 ft to hear anything. So that was a
design issue. So it it will it will

635
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:08,480
definitely depend on on the design. Um
and then on the then again on the water

636
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:12,800
when you say safe if if you're on a
let's say a well uh it would depend on

637
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:18,080
what kind of water usage they are using.
Is it a closed loop system or a dry

638
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:22,960
cooling system no issues at all. If it
is on a municipal system again no issues

639
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:26,880
at all uh or you know very likely no
issues at all. I guess you can say you

640
01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:32,239
shouldn't say never no issues but highly
likely no issues. Uh so it would all

641
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:38,560
depend on on the design. Now most of
these data centers are I shouldn't we

642
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:43,199
don't have a lot to choose from but um
around the country when you look at

643
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:48,719
where data centers have been located
they they are not necessarily in

644
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:53,840
residential areas. They are in
industrial park areas or out by

645
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:59,120
themselves
unfortunately sometimes on very nice

646
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:03,920
farmland. Um but they're not they're not
planted in the in the middle of

647
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:07,840
residential areas. Um
now sometimes now now sometimes they're

648
01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:11,840
relatively are relatively close to some
residences. For example, in Lowden

649
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:17,280
County, Virginia, perhaps the data
center capital of the of the world, they

650
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:23,840
have in their one single county, I think
the number was I think it's 252 data

651
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:29,600
centers in Lowden County, Virginia.
They've gone 100% in on data centers.

652
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:33,520
Um, I I haven't been there, but I'm
guessing there's probably some

653
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:36,560
residences close to a data center there.
But, uh, how close can you get? Depends

654
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:39,840
on the design.
>> They aren't making land anymore.

655
01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:43,199
» They're not making any more land. That's
true.

656
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:46,239
» Our residences keep spreading out. Uh,
and that's why I'm be a little

657
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,719
concerned.
>> That's weather.

658
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:50,960
» No more land is being made.
>> Difference on the weather conditions,

659
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:54,719
too.
>> Yes. It would depend on weather and wind

660
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:58,960
and what kind of barriers might be put
up. That's true. And that again, that

661
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:04,159
would be something
if if it was if it were me and I was in

662
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:09,679
a serious conversation, uh I would be
wanting to talk about design and uh

663
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:12,800
sound or sight barriers. If that's what
you were interested in, I'd want to talk

664
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:18,560
about that. And in the current
landscape, you have some leverage.

665
01:16:15,679 --> 01:16:22,800
» In these um cases, you said whether you
could hardly hear the sound. What are

666
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:28,560
the best ways to effectively cut the
dey?

667
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:32,480
uh an actual physical physical barrier
and then use of materials, the right

668
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:39,360
kind of material. Maybe it's an earthen
burm. It might be uh the the the

669
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:44,400
materials today. There are some
fascinating materials that builders are

670
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:48,159
using even in homes to absorb sound. So,
I'm not a construction expert, but

671
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:53,120
there's some pretty advanced materials
to absorb sound. Just depends how high

672
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:58,800
you want to go to and where the sound is
coming from. it's if it's uh muffling a

673
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:03,040
diesel sound or a jet engine sound or
just the hum of the uh internal

674
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:08,480
components, whether the whether the
cement walls are, you know, 6 in thick

675
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:14,000
or 12 in thick, lots of design issues
that you again, if you were if you were

676
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:17,600
in conversations with a potential um
developer, those are the kinds of things

677
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:21,520
you'd want to talk about. You want to
talk about your concerns and then you'd

678
01:17:19,440 --> 01:17:26,480
want them to come back with ideas on how
they would address your concerns.

679
01:17:24,480 --> 01:17:29,480
Continuing on with the white team, any
questions

680
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:36,960
Dennis?
Supervisor Jenkins,

681
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:43,840
» I'm just uh I'm curious. Is there a
is there like a large swing going from

682
01:17:39,679 --> 01:17:47,520
the water cooled systems to the the dry
and more enclosed systems in the

683
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:53,199
industry?
>> Uh large swing. Well, the trend is

684
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:59,040
definitely away from uh evaporative
systems and definitely toward closed

685
01:17:56,239 --> 01:18:03,679
loop and dry cooling. That is definitely
the trend. Um it

686
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:08,400
I I wouldn't I don't know the reason
why, but I'm guessing public sentiment

687
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:12,920
has something to do with it. So there
that's definitely the trend.

688
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,920
» Okay,

689
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:18,400
Supervisor Langman.
>> Hey, thank you very much for coming

690
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:24,480
here. a lot of a lot of good
information. Um, I got a couple of

691
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:30,400
comments. Um, I'm involved also with a
with a co-op, but it happens to be of

692
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:35,120
the broadband variety. Um,
um, what type of information do you have

693
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:38,920
about uh any data centers that are
located in Oaklair?

694
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,960
Um,

695
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:50,400
» do you know the name of the of the one
you're thinking of?

696
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:55,520
» Yes, I do. We our our co-op happens to
be part owner of that data center.

697
01:18:53,600 --> 01:19:00,000
» Is it one that's currently in existence
or being developed?

698
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:03,840
» It's in existence. It's named Win
Technologies.

699
01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:09,280
And what it is, it's a consortium of
about 30 plus co-ops

700
01:19:06,839 --> 01:19:13,920
[clears throat] ranging from uh central
Illinois,

701
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:20,239
um most of the the entire state of
Wisconsin,

702
01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:25,360
uh Minnesota, Iowa, and the UP.
And uh most of the people that are

703
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:33,840
sitting in this room are sending
technology to this data center.

704
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:39,360
And it's located in uh in uh the old Uni
Royal building.

705
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:46,880
If anybody ever heard
>> Banberry Place, um I toured it uh last

706
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:52,719
year. Uh it's got about 100 people that
work there. Uh they're they're voted uh

707
01:19:50,719 --> 01:19:57,120
three years in a row of one of Oaklair's
best places to work.

708
01:19:55,120 --> 01:20:02,080
Now,
you know, obviously this whole when you

709
01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:08,800
when you talk about data centers, it's
the big bad wolf is is the what seems to

710
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:12,719
be the public sentiment. Uh and and I do
understand the fact that we all use

711
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:22,159
power, but nobody wants a power plant
next to our house. But uh um there are

712
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:26,159
solutions to smaller uh and and I I and
I understand in the in the definition

713
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:33,600
there's quite a few pages of a
definition of what that uh data center

714
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:36,400
how large scale it could possibly be and
this doesn't look like this fits in

715
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:42,560
that.
Um, you know, uh, I'm glad that that,

716
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:46,480
uh, Louie is going to allow us to get
some more education because there's a

717
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:51,760
lot there's a lot of stuff that that the
general public doesn't understand about

718
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:55,360
what this works, the pros and the con.
And thanks for giving the opportunity

719
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,280
for people to learn more about it. Thank
you.

720
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:02,000
» Yeah, I don't have uh I don't have
Oaklair on my list. Um, and maybe it's

721
01:20:59,679 --> 01:21:09,679
because it it didn't it's because of the
size. Um, but I the last point you made

722
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:15,199
is really an excellent point. Um, and I
I I'll maybe make more clearly a point I

723
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:21,280
made earlier. It's it's fine to be
opposed really to anything at all or in

724
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:24,880
support of anything at all. But I would
urge the a governing body, not just this

725
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:28,880
Baron County Board, but really any
governing body, and I know many of you

726
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:34,640
are on other governing bodies as well.
Um, and I but I'll use data centers as a

727
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:42,159
as a an actual example
as opposed to being for or against

728
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:47,520
data [clears throat] centers. Uh,
I would urge you to consider being for

729
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:54,239
or against
something below that the subset thereof.

730
01:21:51,280 --> 01:22:01,520
I mean, are we against data centers or
are we against uh the light pollution or

731
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:05,360
the sound or the dust? I mean, is is
that our problem? Because if that's our

732
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:09,120
problem, okay, well, let's address that.
See if we can be addressed. Maybe it

733
01:22:06,719 --> 01:22:13,280
can't be addressed. Well, in that case,
I I I just can't I can't see my way

734
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:17,920
clear because we cannot address that.
But you can't we don't want to just be

735
01:22:15,679 --> 01:22:22,960
absolutely against it or you we don't
want to be 100% for it. Okay. But uh

736
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:26,639
what happens uh they're all going to be
used for evil purposes. So it doesn't

737
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:34,800
matter. I'm I'm for it. It doesn't make
any sense. It'd be like saying uh um uh

738
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:39,040
I'm I'm against all bridges because u
you know I I don't I don't like the the

739
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:44,719
beams that they use. Well, that's
ridiculous. Change the beams.

740
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:48,880
You can still be for bridges.
We have to be if we have a problem,

741
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:53,360
let's address it. If we're for
something, just make sure we know what

742
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:58,400
we're for. Uh so it's we don't want to
use blanket statements without knowing

743
01:22:56,159 --> 01:23:03,440
exactly what it is we are for or
against. Uh and then if we're against

744
01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:08,080
it, let's try to address it. If it can't
be addressed, you're perfectly

745
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:12,719
legitimate to be against something. If
you're for something and it is it is you

746
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:16,360
understand why you're for it, perfectly
fine to be for it.

747
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:24,400
» Doing great, folks. White team, you want
more questions or do you want me to

748
01:23:20,639 --> 01:23:31,600
defer to the blue team?
I see nothing. So, blue team members,

749
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:35,159
questions from to Mr. Okonnell.
Supervisor Wentz.

750
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:44,159
» Actually, I have several, but I'll try
to try to limit uh the questions I have.

751
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:50,239
Uh the first one is um not knowing much
about the bigger data centers that you

752
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:54,320
mentioned into DeForest and so forth. Um
when those developments were in the

753
01:23:52,239 --> 01:24:01,679
planning stages, were there any
requirements either at the county or

754
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:08,080
city or state level for um environmental
impact reviews for example?

755
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:15,360
» Yes. Yeah. in uh in in several of those
cases they had environmental

756
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:20,560
impact um studies issues. Yes, they uh
now not not to the extent where we might

757
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:24,960
have had a um what is called an EIS
environmental impact statement like a

758
01:24:22,239 --> 01:24:27,520
DNR type statement but certainly uh
there would be an impact environmental

759
01:24:26,639 --> 01:24:33,600
impact
>> water issue um you know uh contamination

760
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:37,679
issue and around the site. Yes, there'd
be those kinds of issues that would be

761
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:43,360
that would be required of any particular
building permit or the zoning

762
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:48,320
department. Um absolutely. And and who
would conduct those reviews then?

763
01:24:46,239 --> 01:24:53,199
» Uh well generally it's going to be a
private they might they might hire out a

764
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:56,880
private entity to conduct that. Um I'm
not sure in that in the cases of the

765
01:24:55,440 --> 01:25:02,400
data centers
>> I'm not sure how that would go but maybe

766
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:06,719
a mutually agreed upon private entity.
Uh I don't know that for certain but

767
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:08,719
that would make some sense to me.
>> Okay.

768
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,400
» Okay. Super I can't that's the end of
the question. I got to respect. We have

769
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:16,719
to let your your your other team members
ask questions or I have to give it back

770
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:20,040
to the red team. So, Supervisor
>> Greg Turk,

771
01:25:20,719 --> 01:25:29,920
» thank you for coming and sharing the
information. My question is more if a

772
01:25:26,719 --> 01:25:37,360
data center is built uh with property
taxes and does this affect net new

773
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:43,679
construction to help the county down the
road with levy limits?

774
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:49,199
» Well, this uh a data center is a
significant build. uh the dollar amount

775
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:53,920
the value dollar amount on these data
centers has been pretty significant um

776
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:59,520
at least on the on the large scale ones.
So that's going to be a pretty

777
01:25:55,199 --> 01:26:03,520
significant net new construction. Um but
Baron County is pretty big county. So

778
01:26:02,239 --> 01:26:08,080
you know is it going to is it going to
be noticeable? It'd be noticeable but is

779
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:13,280
it going to bring your property taxes
down to zero? No. But you'd probably

780
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:16,480
notice it. I mean I'm
>> Jeff probably even ran the numbers.

781
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:22,000
Yeah, I mean it would if we got a $40
million that would be or $7 billion. So

782
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:27,520
take if it was $40 million take that
that'd be what? 5% drop in the equalized

783
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:34,239
valuation. So that'd be a 5% drop in
your mill rate. But may I chime in Mark?

784
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:38,000
» Um we do have a town chair sitting here
to my left and we're finding out that to

785
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:42,880
get around their property taxes, they
don't attach them to the soil. So now

786
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:46,239
they're personal property and the state
legislature did away with personal

787
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:51,120
property taxes. So that's how they get
around paying taxes. So there's no

788
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:59,679
effect upside effect for the county from
the property tax side. So

789
01:26:55,040 --> 01:27:04,639
» done county supervisor Shreddle.
Yeah, I think we've had data centers and

790
01:27:02,639 --> 01:27:10,000
small like Fran was talking about for a
long time and of course we're in

791
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:15,840
constant competition with China which we
have to acknowledge and hopefully beat

792
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:19,360
them at it because they put up they
don't come to a board like this and say

793
01:27:17,679 --> 01:27:24,320
well we want to put up a data center
they just do it because the government

794
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:28,719
orders it. So, another thing going back
to the probably the 1850s during the

795
01:27:26,480 --> 01:27:32,800
industrial revolution, people were just
wild. We're going to lose our jobs. Our

796
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:37,040
kids won't have any jobs. Then you got
to the 1900s. What are we going to do

797
01:27:35,199 --> 01:27:40,080
with all the horses? Now the cars are
coming in. The harness maker in the

798
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:44,320
corner. He's going to be out of
business.

799
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:48,880
So, I think this is inev inevitable, but
I agree. We should really look into

800
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:54,400
this. I thank you for your input, Mr.
Okonnell. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

801
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:57,920
Blue team members, you have Supervisor
Vaughn.

802
01:27:56,080 --> 01:28:02,159
» Uh, can we go back to the the Wii
Energies and the PSC ruling? Yeah. You

803
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:05,360
said that was just for WEI Energies. So,
if our township doesn't have WE

804
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:07,840
energies, it would not affect us at all.
>> It would it would not affect you.

805
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:13,920
There'd be there would have to be
another request for a tariff adjustment.

806
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:20,239
Uh, but I would I would be incredibly
surprised if this uh does not get

807
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:23,600
extended to all operations. Uh that
might be a

808
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:27,600
that would be something that I could see
the legislature and governor agreeing on

809
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:31,520
regardless of who occupies the
legislature and governor's office.

810
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:34,719
Depending upon how the elections go,
they may not agree on much of anything,

811
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:38,159
but this might be one of those things
they could agree on. Uh I could see

812
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:44,480
that.
>> Other questions?

813
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:49,040
» No, I have to go to Supervisor Wel
>> and I'm and I'm I'm happy to talk with

814
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:53,040
anyone after this meeting. You can call
me anytime, day, night, weekend, or

815
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:59,280
holiday. Chat with you as much as you
like.

816
01:28:55,040 --> 01:29:01,520
» Hi Mark, thanks a lot. I came in Sorry.
>> No, it's

817
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:05,120
» Am I
um thanks a lot for the stuff you

818
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:08,880
shared. It was I my opinions are based
on what I've heard from people people

819
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:13,760
that are complaining. So, thank you for
that. Um

820
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:18,719
what you mentioned county leverage or
leverage that we could have doing this

821
01:29:15,440 --> 01:29:24,080
early. um at what point
um

822
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:30,880
how do we protect that leverage in still
using a mortorium and what um I forgot

823
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:34,719
this oh the NDAs um I've heard a lot of
conflicting

824
01:29:32,639 --> 01:29:38,719
um messages about the NDA they're
worthless they're they're helpful what

825
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:44,080
what do you what are your thoughts on
that and how have other areas that have

826
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:49,360
had those have had luck with those
>> well the NDAs Um perhaps Rebecca can

827
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:56,480
speak to this when she speaks in a few
minutes, but um

828
01:29:52,000 --> 01:30:05,120
the NDAs have been a a flash point for
the citizenry for some time um because

829
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:10,080
they're viewed as secretive. Um and uh
somehow

830
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:16,000
you the
uh information that should be revealed

831
01:30:13,199 --> 01:30:22,320
is not being revealed. Now there is in
in the private sector there is of course

832
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:27,840
reason for NDAs because uh deals uh if
they were public could go ary uh if you

833
01:30:25,679 --> 01:30:32,320
were trying to acquire land if you were
trying to get lease holds uh if you're

834
01:30:30,239 --> 01:30:35,679
trying to put a deal together but if the
information got out it could blow the

835
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:40,719
whole thing up uh you know things of
that sort and so there are reasons for

836
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:45,280
an NDA. The question is whether a public
entity if it holds any water and that's

837
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:53,440
something perhaps that Rebecca can get
into um on the first part the leverage

838
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:58,719
question uh I if let's take a different
state if if you were a and and to the

839
01:30:56,400 --> 01:31:03,360
gentleman's earlier point we've had data
centers around for a long time this is

840
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:09,679
not a new issue it's the issue of the
day but it's not new I mean our friends

841
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:18,000
to the southwest Iowa had data centers
for decades. Uh it's just become the

842
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:24,239
flavor of the day and the issue. But um
if we had a state where local

843
01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:27,520
communities around our entire state were
saying

844
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:33,440
I want a data center, bring a data
center in here and and they were

845
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:39,040
competing. Then our leverage becomes
basically non-existent.

846
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:44,159
Uh but we don't have that. we have uh
there's difficulty in select in in

847
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:50,560
citing a data center. So that's where
the leverage takes hold. That's where it

848
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:56,320
exists. Now we also have communities all
over the state uh passing moratoriums.

849
01:31:54,000 --> 01:32:00,960
Now a moratorum
uh to to take a break and think about

850
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:11,040
things.
Okay fine. a moratorum uh which is

851
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:17,280
um window dressing for a ban
not so not so not not as good not so

852
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:23,120
much um and that potentially invites
litigation as well potentially so you

853
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:28,480
got to be careful about that I mean to
say you know we're we're going to have a

854
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:34,159
it's moratorum but really we're just
doing that because we want to ban them

855
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:40,239
forever it's not probably not a wise
policy move. Um where does your where

856
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:47,840
does your your leverage
end

857
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:55,040
when uh when data centers have um
choices as to where they are going to go

858
01:32:51,600 --> 01:33:01,679
and communities have said we we would
like to um work with you and um uh and

859
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:09,440
we want you we're inviting you into our
community and we we we would we can come

860
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:13,920
to agreement on using marginal land and
uh sound barriers and uh we'll work with

861
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:18,239
you on this or work with you on that and
the and the data center says we'll do

862
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:24,880
this and this and this for you. When
that starts happening leverage decreases

863
01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:29,199
when will that be? I'm not sure. It's
going to happen at some point. At some

864
01:33:26,719 --> 01:33:35,280
point uh communities in our state are
going to say uh I think I want a data

865
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:39,840
center. Some will, many will not, some
will. When that happens, leverage

866
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:42,880
decreases.
>> Supervisor Schneider, you have the

867
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:47,840
floor.
>> I guess a question I had is, is there

868
01:33:44,639 --> 01:33:52,800
any security issues that uh fall back
onto the county from, you know, security

869
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:55,040
to fire protection or all those kinds of
things?

870
01:33:53,280 --> 01:34:01,199
» Oh, definitely. Uh yeah, that's one of
the issues that that we are concerned

871
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:05,840
about. Uh there is I mean there's a uh
fire and EMS is a major issue with these

872
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:12,560
data centers. I mean that is a that is
an issue and if it is in a township um

873
01:34:09,199 --> 01:34:18,800
our townships are not um well equipped
some townships are not well equipped to

874
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:24,159
handle uh fire e not so much EMS because
we don't have a lot of employees but a

875
01:34:20,719 --> 01:34:28,159
fire issue at a largecale facility that
is definitely an issue. definitely an

876
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:31,760
issue and that should be one of the
issues on the table. If you were going

877
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:34,400
to pursue a conversation with a data
center, you would want to talk about

878
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:39,360
that. You'd want to have agreements in
place uh with a local uh mun

879
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:42,400
municipality, nearby municipality,
perhaps the county, although we're not

880
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:45,920
involved in fire, but local
municipalities. You would want to have

881
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:51,120
you want to be able to address that
because we cannot we do not want a

882
01:34:48,719 --> 01:34:56,080
large-scale facility uh going up in
flames and we just no one wants that. So

883
01:34:54,239 --> 01:35:03,600
you you'd want to address that. Now
security issue. Uh these are generally

884
01:35:00,639 --> 01:35:07,360
very large buildings uh with thick
cement walls.

885
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:10,239
Um
you know you're not going to you're not

886
01:35:08,719 --> 01:35:17,000
going to climb in through the window of
one of these things. So

887
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:17,000
that not quite as much there.

888
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:24,560
» Supervisor Oki.
Does anybody else on the blue team want

889
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:27,840
to talk that hasn't?
Okay. Would

890
01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:34,560
» have more question.
>> Would would the sand plants areas be a

891
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:39,280
good place for a data center?
>> Uh again, I'm not a construction person.

892
01:35:36,639 --> 01:35:44,159
Uh depends on how how deep you could put
footings, I suppose, but I don't see why

893
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:50,800
not. Um, I mean they got access
transportation access and I mean I

894
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:55,120
as a layman would seem to me it'd be a
pretty good spot. You get it's generally

895
01:35:52,560 --> 01:36:00,800
flat land and
and and also you need the infrastructure

896
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:05,040
the like the interstates having that's
why the forest and D county and St. Croy

897
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:09,280
County are getting some of the hyper
ones because they have the the

898
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:13,040
underground wiring and infrastructure
there which I don't think we have in

899
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:16,960
Baron. So, we aren't going to get the
the biggest of the biggest. We'd

900
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:21,600
probably get something in the mid-range
if we wanted some.

901
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:26,400
» Yeah. Access to the to the to power to
to power and the grid would be

902
01:36:24,159 --> 01:36:32,560
incredibly important. Uh and then how
far if you know direct access, how far

903
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:37,120
it has to be built out, uh which is a
cost factor to the data center, uh would

904
01:36:34,639 --> 01:36:42,480
be an issue that that the data center or
the developer would have to consider.

905
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:47,040
Um, of course with a sand plant, uh, I'm
not sure what power needs that they had

906
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:53,280
previously, but I'm guessing they were
notable. So, there may be significant

907
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:59,360
power already piped into a sand area.
Um, but yeah, power would be a a major

908
01:36:56,960 --> 01:37:03,920
uh a major issue. And then whether it's
an evaporative system with a sand plant

909
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:08,080
or whether it's a dry cooling or a
closed loop, uh, that would be another

910
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:11,600
issue. Those are the probably probably
some of the

911
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:15,840
some of the major issues that would be
under consideration for a developer

912
01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:19,600
» because we have had well just so
everybody knows the NDA is a

913
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:24,000
non-disclosure agreement. Um, but we
have had the JDAs with the solar farms

914
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:28,719
and stuff and so we've got some
experience with doing that and to to

915
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:34,880
that's why I want everybody's to get as
knowledgeable as they can today in

916
01:37:31,119 --> 01:37:39,360
between the 29th whatever because like
they said the leverage is going to go

917
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:43,840
down and if we want proper we want a
data center if we did now now is the

918
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:49,040
time to be looking at it because we do
have some leverage and we do have I

919
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:53,760
think a chance here. Now, I'm not saying
don't put in the paper Louis says let's

920
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:56,159
get data center here. But, you know,
anyway,

921
01:37:54,800 --> 01:38:03,040
» well, the chairman makes a very good
point uh referencing uh a a JDA, joint

922
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:09,600
development agreement. So if you were
going to go forward whether it's a data

923
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:14,480
center or some other um venture uh that
that required um public sector

924
01:38:12,480 --> 01:38:18,400
infrastructure or public sector
interests

925
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:23,920
um you you would want to consider a
joint development agreement. In other

926
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:29,520
words uh an agreement where some of your
needs and concerns would be addressed.

927
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:34,080
Um and that is where Atollis Law comes
in. I mean, they have lots of experience

928
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:39,920
in this area. And that is where you'd
want to address some of the the the fire

929
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:44,960
EMS issues, uh maybe some of the
transportation issues, uh maybe the uh

930
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:51,040
the what's going to happen to the
building down the road issues. Um you

931
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:56,239
know, things of that sort. Um I mean for
example one of the issues that it's

932
01:38:53,760 --> 01:39:01,199
talked about in some other counties uh
what happens if the when when the the

933
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:05,199
owner of the data center or user of the
data center in some cases the the user

934
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:10,400
may not be the owner. It might be a
developer but what happens when the uh

935
01:39:07,679 --> 01:39:15,040
user of the data center is no longer no
longer needs it. 25 years from now there

936
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:21,040
is some other technology and we no
longer use data centers. We use lasers

937
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:25,199
and the satellites. Okay, what happens
then? We just have a great big empty

938
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:29,600
building. Well, we have that now
sometimes with a Walmart or we had it

939
01:39:27,199 --> 01:39:33,520
with Kmart stores for a while, but okay,
it's this is not something new, but we

940
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:36,560
have that big large building. So, we
want to think about that in advance.

941
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:41,440
Well, we might say in a joint
development agreement, uh you know, when

942
01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:47,119
you're building this data center, um why
don't you build some cutouts for uh

943
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:52,960
large equipment just in case 20 years
from now you vacate? Um maybe we'll buy

944
01:39:50,400 --> 01:40:00,320
the building for a dollar and uh house
all of our large uh county trucks in

945
01:39:56,239 --> 01:40:06,960
that building with the sand or the salt.
Okay. They might say, "Forget it." No,

946
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:11,600
they might say, "Okay, that's easy to do
in the outset. Be hard to do after the

947
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:15,520
fact, but it's easy to do when we think
about it in advance." Okay. They might

948
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:19,119
say, "Oh, that's an easy one. Sure. What
else do you need?" Maybe that's the part

949
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:22,800
of the conversation. That that all
happens in a joint development

950
01:40:20,719 --> 01:40:28,159
agreement. So, if you talk early, that's
part of that leverage issue. uh if you

951
01:40:25,679 --> 01:40:32,080
were in a conversation uh to try to
address some of your concerns or needs

952
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:36,639
or desires that you anticipate down the
road.

953
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:41,199
» All right. So, blue team, you're done.
Back. No, we're No, no, we're we have to

954
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:44,639
go back. We're going to do this.
>> Going to go back to the red team. So,

955
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:48,480
questions. Any more questions from the
red team?

956
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:52,269
» Um we're going to go down the road. Cook
efforts. Ellison

957
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:55,440
» just quickly I did uh so Microsoft
[clears throat]

958
01:40:52,880 --> 01:41:00,080
their campus that's what they call it uh
they're going to they cover up about 600

959
01:40:57,199 --> 01:41:04,639
acres uh building the footprint of the
building now of all of them is only 88

960
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:09,679
acres total those six are going to buy
up about 4,800 acres um much like your

961
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:14,159
airports if they're starting to do the
Rice Lake airport if you go out there

962
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:17,920
there's crop land inside that fence and
that's part of their buffering uh

963
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:22,400
capacity so you're not losing all of
that and um to the data center itself. I

964
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:26,880
mean, that's just part of their
buffering process and ensuring that you

965
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:31,440
can't hear them. So,
>> thank you, Supervisor Cook. Supervisor

966
01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:37,040
efforts, you have the floor.
>> Um yeah, my question is to the Dun

967
01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:43,920
County representative. Um, I don't know
if I'm the only one, but you said that

968
01:41:40,159 --> 01:41:49,760
or it was stated that the property tax
doesn't apply because

969
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:51,920
it's not attached to the land. I don't
understand that.

970
01:41:50,480 --> 01:41:56,320
» So, the one I looked up and the one
that's being proposed in my township,

971
01:41:53,840 --> 01:42:01,520
Dun County, is a modular data center.
Prefab buildings kind of look a lot like

972
01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:02,800
» Yeah, it looks a lot like a shipping
container.

973
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:08,080
» Okay.
>> And it's on leased land. So, you know,

974
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:12,239
then it's the rules are different for
assessing, but there's one in Dun County

975
01:42:10,639 --> 01:42:15,760
that I looked up and they're not paying
any taxes. So, I don't know why I

976
01:42:14,159 --> 01:42:20,960
haven't asked an assessor.
>> And is that is that supposed to be a

977
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:26,880
data center or like a Bitcoin?
>> Uh, the one being pitched in our

978
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:29,840
township is very small and it's I think
it's AI.

979
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:34,480
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Supervisor Ellison, you have the floor.

980
01:42:32,400 --> 01:42:38,480
Uh, yes. Uh given the recent activity
for building data centers, they must be

981
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:42,159
quite profitable. Do you know how
profitable they are?

982
01:42:40,159 --> 01:42:48,320
» Uh very very
>> very very very profitable. Yeah. So

983
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:55,119
that's this goes to the leverage and
joint development agreement. Uh money is

984
01:42:51,440 --> 01:43:00,639
not the issue. So yes that it's I mean
you don't want to ask make unreasonable

985
01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:07,119
asks but um [clears throat]
on the other that from the data centers

986
01:43:04,239 --> 01:43:12,639
you this money is not the issue.
>> Supervisor Anderson you have the floor.

987
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:18,480
» Um yes thank you. Um so is it true only
the mega data centers need dedicated the

988
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:23,119
dedicated longhaul data lines which we
talked about that's correct.

989
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:30,560
Uh, say that again.
>> Okay. So, dedicated longhaul data lines

990
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:37,199
is what the big mega
ones need. Is that correct?

991
01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:42,400
» Um, dedicated longhaul data lines. Um,
well, all of the data centers need

992
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:46,000
dedicated
>> like they're big like this

993
01:43:44,159 --> 01:43:48,320
» the power lines.
>> Um,

994
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:53,440
» she's talking about internet. They they
will all need

995
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:57,920
» dedicated let's call them you know large
internet pipes let's call it they all

996
01:43:55,600 --> 01:44:00,400
need they will all need that large or
small

997
01:43:58,480 --> 01:44:05,440
» okay so even this okay so even the
smaller ones yeah um don't need that is

998
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:11,280
that correct and so we're not close
enough to those big ones that would come

999
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:15,840
to Baron County and there's there's been
no interest in in even asking for a data

1000
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:20,800
center in Baron County so far I think
that's what I remember hearing

1001
01:44:18,159 --> 01:44:27,440
Um, well, I don't know about that. I I
don't know. I But I would say, um, given

1002
01:44:24,639 --> 01:44:35,520
what I know of the landscape,
um, pretty much anywhere in Wisconsin,

1003
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:39,520
if a local community said, uh, I'm
interested in a potential data center,

1004
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:44,560
you will have people knocking on your
door if that's what you said.

1005
01:44:41,679 --> 01:44:53,280
» Okay. Um now can can infrastructure be
built out to uh create a large enough

1006
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:58,000
pipe? Sure. Um I mean at a cost and but
that would have to be evaluated um to

1007
01:44:55,360 --> 01:45:01,360
determine um but mostly the
conversations that are occurring are

1008
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:06,480
communities saying we don't want a data
center. So that that's currently the

1009
01:45:03,679 --> 01:45:09,840
conversation. So we never get to the um
people don't get to the convers to the

1010
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:15,280
point of the conversation of well how
much would it cost to build out for the

1011
01:45:11,119 --> 01:45:19,199
infrastructure uh power andor um let's
call it the internet pipe that's not

1012
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:26,719
really the right term but for our
conversation never get to that point.

1013
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:31,760
» Anyone else on the red team white team?
Supervisor Klick you have the floor.

1014
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:37,280
So, if we look at the footprint from
what most of these are looking at,

1015
01:45:33,679 --> 01:45:40,719
they're 300-,600 acres. If there was an
interest of putting one in Baron County,

1016
01:45:39,440 --> 01:45:46,800
I'm guessing it would be someplace
that's in a township near one of our

1017
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:53,280
communities. Could you explain how the
process and the negotiation would happen

1018
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:58,159
between the community, the municipality,
the county, the land owner who owns the

1019
01:45:56,320 --> 01:46:04,080
property and has the rights to it and
the developer? And who who takes charge

1020
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:08,960
on that? How how do all those issues and
negotiations take place?

1021
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:18,480
» Well,
there is no single way that this goes.

1022
01:46:14,639 --> 01:46:25,400
If you described a way, it's happened um
in in this country. but how it might go.

1023
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:25,400
Um

1024
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:33,760
I I think you're right that um if there
was going to be a data center in Baron

1025
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:37,679
County, it [clears throat] is likely to
be within the jurisdiction of a

1026
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:43,119
municipality
uh or an extr territorial zoning of a

1027
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:48,560
municipality or in a township adjacent
to a municipality. That is the most

1028
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:57,119
likely the most likely scenario.
Um there be uh

1029
01:46:52,639 --> 01:47:03,360
the the the assessment by a developer
would be whether there is a political

1030
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:08,880
climate to be uh for that to happen.
That might happen with u the

1031
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:14,639
municipality with the township andor the
county uh more likely with the economic

1032
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:20,000
development corp of one of those three
jurisdictions or all of them. uh

1033
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:25,360
communicating with the industry and if
that is the case then conversations

1034
01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:32,400
would begin. Uh and those conversations
would entail um what are our potential

1035
01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:37,360
uh locations? Uh your local economic
development experts would likely know of

1036
01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:42,480
potential locations or at least find out
where they are. Uh there'd be some site

1037
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:50,480
visits. There'd be some conversations
about potential uh lease or acquisition

1038
01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:56,000
of property. Uh and and then there'd be
some conversations about well uh how

1039
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:59,760
could this possibly come together? Where
is the power? What's the power

1040
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:05,840
situation? What kind of a system might
we have if water is needed? Does the

1041
01:48:02,239 --> 01:48:11,679
municipal uh water system can it handle
whatever they wish to put in place?

1042
01:48:08,719 --> 01:48:18,400
uh is the grid system sufficient? Uh all
of those types of conversations would be

1043
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:23,119
ongoing. Uh if it all if it all came if
if all the answers to all the questions

1044
01:48:20,239 --> 01:48:29,119
were yes andor maybe then it would be a
neg negotiations might start with one or

1045
01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:35,040
all of the local jurisdictions
about what would be necessary to get the

1046
01:48:31,119 --> 01:48:39,920
proper approvals permits zoning whatever
might be necessary to have this uh

1047
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:44,080
begin.
Uh and then lots lot I'm going through

1048
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:48,159
the high level steps. There's a hundred
steps in between all of these. Uh there

1049
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:52,960
probably have to be some sort of public
relations campaign uh to let people know

1050
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:58,560
what this let the citizens know what
this would mean. Uh to allay any fears

1051
01:48:55,679 --> 01:49:02,480
that they might have to uh address any
concerns they might that the citizens

1052
01:49:00,239 --> 01:49:08,880
might have to talk with local businesses
about what it might mean for them. uh

1053
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:13,679
the city, town, village, and/or county
uh would want to talk with the developer

1054
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:17,760
andor perhaps the final operator of the
of the center uh about what desires they

1055
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:23,199
might have in a joint development
agreement. Uh all headed up by likely

1056
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:28,080
the economic development coordinator or
or director. Uh all of those things

1057
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:35,199
would be happening
somewhat uh uh cons

1058
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:41,679
uh one by one, but maybe some of them at
the same time and eventually uh you

1059
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:47,760
might have a a a a beginning of a
project uh and being built and then

1060
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:54,080
then it would happen. But it would
that's one way it might occur. It might

1061
01:49:51,119 --> 01:49:58,400
uh how would it not occur?
a developer coming in, never talking to

1062
01:49:56,320 --> 01:50:03,360
the local jurisdictions, going out and
acquiring property, uh, or a leaseold on

1063
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:07,199
a property, and then saying to the
locals, here's what we're going to do.

1064
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:11,760
It's highly unlikely that that would
ever happen. That would be that's a

1065
01:50:09,119 --> 01:50:16,960
recipe for disaster. So, it's that's not
how it would happen. So, I would say

1066
01:50:14,159 --> 01:50:20,960
talking to economic development,
your your economic development people is

1067
01:50:18,719 --> 01:50:25,600
most likely how it would happen. Start
at least.

1068
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:29,920
Other questions?
Supervisor Layman.

1069
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:36,400
» Um just one more comment. Mr. Ellison's
uh comment about the amount of money um

1070
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:43,440
that these people possess. Um it it's a
unique uh business platform where where

1071
01:50:40,239 --> 01:50:50,800
the internet broadband companies uh lay
the footwork, the fiber to the home and

1072
01:50:46,639 --> 01:50:57,360
transmit all of this data uh basically
uh for a set fee for us to to to

1073
01:50:53,600 --> 01:51:04,239
maintain that line. But uh the big
companies uh Netflix pays nothing.

1074
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:09,840
They're broadcasting this through our
system

1075
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:15,199
and they do not uh we do not charge them
or have no way of charging them. And

1076
01:51:12,239 --> 01:51:20,880
then what happens is is that they start
streaming people start streaming uh more

1077
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:25,840
than what the capacity is. So, we're
upping our speeds and it's kind of a

1078
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:32,480
burden on the broadband companies and
these people are are untaxed and are

1079
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:37,880
just raping people at at money that you
can't even imagine.

1080
01:51:34,639 --> 01:51:37,880
Thank you.

1081
01:51:38,480 --> 01:51:46,159
Other questions?
All right. So, now we're back to the

1082
01:51:42,719 --> 01:51:51,840
blue team. Supervisor Wentz,
>> I still have many more, but I'll I'll

1083
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:56,320
choose one. Um you've talked about um
property taxes and whether or not

1084
01:51:53,840 --> 01:52:02,719
they're paid by the
companies. Um what are are there data

1085
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:08,719
about the effects of data center
development on property values

1086
01:52:06,159 --> 01:52:15,440
for homeowners and businesses in the
vicinity of the data center?

1087
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:20,960
» Uh I do not have that with me but I can
look into that. Um, again, they they are

1088
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:25,920
likely to be um they're not going to be
in residential areas, so they're going

1089
01:52:22,719 --> 01:52:32,639
to be in an industrial type area or out
by it themselves somewhere. But, uh, let

1090
01:52:30,239 --> 01:52:39,199
me look into that uh, and see if we can
find any data,

1091
01:52:34,960 --> 01:52:43,440
no pun intended, uh, data on, um, on
what, um, if there's been any impact on

1092
01:52:41,599 --> 01:52:46,960
data centers. If it's not in Wisconsin,
let me see if I can find something. uh

1093
01:52:45,599 --> 01:52:50,800
around the rest of the country. By the
way, that reminds me the the packet of

1094
01:52:48,639 --> 01:52:54,960
information put together in your packet
was really exceptional. I mean, I read

1095
01:52:53,199 --> 01:53:00,159
everything. It was really really well
done. You get some Niko material here.

1096
01:52:57,119 --> 01:53:06,080
Uh stuff from um um your economic
development expert. Uh really good

1097
01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:10,480
stuff. Really well done.
>> Supervisor Shreel.

1098
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:15,599
» Yeah. Just quick comment on taxes. I
watched PBS here autumn three weeks ago

1099
01:53:13,199 --> 01:53:20,960
about the Port Washington and there was
a quite a significant savings on

1100
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:24,560
property tax for the people in that
area. So I don't know how much or

1101
01:53:22,639 --> 01:53:29,119
anything but
we had a question I'd like to answer

1102
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:33,679
that I used AI again according to this
uh let me read the entire text here.

1103
01:53:31,599 --> 01:53:40,639
Lowden County, Virginia, widely known as
the data data center alley, is home to

1104
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:44,639
approximately 150 to 200 operational
data centers with dozens more in

1105
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:51,119
planning or construction stages. Point
number one, footprint. Over 40, excuse

1106
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:56,000
me, over 53 million square feet of data
center spaces operating or under

1107
01:53:53,119 --> 01:54:01,440
development. Point number two, internet
traffic. Roughly 30% to 70% of all

1108
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:07,760
global internet traffic passes through
facilities in Lowden County every day.

1109
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:13,360
Power capacity installed capacity stands
at around 4 gaww

1110
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:18,560
it says in parenthesis with another 2 to
three gigawatts in the development

1111
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:23,360
pipeline. If you watched the uh video
that I sent to you from Wharton School

1112
01:54:20,480 --> 01:54:27,040
of Business, they did say that 100 I
believe it's sorry, I think it's 90% of

1113
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:32,159
all data centers in the United States of
America are located in six counties.

1114
01:54:30,239 --> 01:54:36,239
So, going back to the blue team, if
there aren't any questions, I'll go over

1115
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:39,599
to red. Supervisor Vaughn, you have the
floor.

1116
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:42,719
» Thank you. Um, back to your recipe for
disaster about coming in without telling

1117
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:46,960
anybody. Do you think that would hold
true for unzoneed towns because there's

1118
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:53,599
really no regulation there to stop?
>> Yeah, I I um I mean you never want to

1119
01:54:50,639 --> 01:54:59,360
say never, but uh I think it'd be a huge
mistake uh for especially in today's

1120
01:54:56,159 --> 01:55:04,080
environment. Um to not talk with the
local officials. So I I would be very

1121
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:08,719
surprised if that were to occur. Um it
could it certainly could. you might get

1122
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:15,360
a rogue developer that is trying to
force, you know, force their way, but uh

1123
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:21,520
given to the environment today, it's the
quickest way to get uh to create public

1124
01:55:17,679 --> 01:55:25,440
opposition. So, I it would just it'd be
it'd be foolish. It could be done, but

1125
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:29,679
it'd be foolish.
>> Supervisor Oki, just for information,

1126
01:55:27,599 --> 01:55:34,639
Dave Armstrong had prior commitment
today. He could not be here otherwise he

1127
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:39,840
would have. He's already compiled a lot
of information. He wanted me to say he's

1128
01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:44,080
not pro, he's not con, he's he's trying
to provide information and help us out

1129
01:55:42,159 --> 01:55:48,000
and in the future he definitely will be.
So, he he's gathered a lot of

1130
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:51,440
information and he's he's pretty up to
speed on what's going on.

1131
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:56,000
» Well, Dave is one of the smartest guys
in Madison and you are lucky to have him

1132
01:55:53,920 --> 01:56:01,840
as your economic development guy. Um,
and he put together some really, really

1133
01:55:58,639 --> 01:56:06,239
good information. uh he's just I mean
right down the middle and good

1134
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:10,800
information uh that people can rely on
to make a decision.

1135
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:15,679
» Red team.
>> Um just another comment. Um so someone

1136
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:19,280
asked about the values Laden County
which is home of the largest nearly 200

1137
01:56:17,599 --> 01:56:25,599
data centers. is there has been studies
there but again these data centers uh

1138
01:56:21,199 --> 01:56:30,000
are older uh and newer uh but they found
in their study of over if you're within

1139
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:34,960
a half a mile you may take up to a 2.8%
8% decrease in the value of your home.

1140
01:56:32,639 --> 01:56:41,679
However, recent studies showing with the
new data centers, very little if any

1141
01:56:39,119 --> 01:56:45,440
uh AI uh if you you spend the extra 20
bucks or 100 bucks, you get a lot more.

1142
01:56:43,599 --> 01:56:48,000
» This is crazy. More money you spend, the
better answer you get.

1143
01:56:46,719 --> 01:56:54,320
» It's true.
>> Supervisor Gors, you have the floor. Uh

1144
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:58,960
yeah, I would like to know if there's um
do these centers have to be above ground

1145
01:56:56,639 --> 01:57:03,760
all the time or this can they be
underground a little bit or at all or

1146
01:57:02,239 --> 01:57:08,800
» Well, that's a good question. I've never
gotten that question before. Uh I don't

1147
01:57:07,575 --> 01:57:12,159
[clears throat] think that they could be
below ground. I'd have to I'd have to

1148
01:57:10,719 --> 01:57:17,456
look into that, but I've never heard of
one being below ground. Uh,

1149
01:57:15,436 --> 01:57:17,456
[clears throat]

1150
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:23,520
» that's a that's an interesting question.
I That's

1151
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:26,719
» I give you credit that that's a brand
new one. That's good. That's good. You

1152
01:57:25,199 --> 01:57:32,400
get a star, Jim. Good job.
>> It'll be less sightly. That's one thing.

1153
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:35,360
I get a star. Oh, man. [laughter]
>> Do you want me to call Sally? You don't

1154
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:37,040
want to start running a chainsaw here,
Supervisor Gors. Okay.

1155
01:57:36,639 --> 01:57:42,400
» No.
>> All right. Anybody else on on the white

1156
01:57:39,599 --> 01:57:45,119
team?
>> Blue team. Supervisor Wentz, I know

1157
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:48,119
you've had I know you've got more
questions.

1158
01:57:51,679 --> 01:58:02,320
Th this might be very nuts and bolts,
but in terms of a county's approach or

1159
01:57:58,159 --> 01:58:07,599
its leverage, I suppose in
um you know being able to weigh in on

1160
01:58:04,719 --> 01:58:14,719
usages, things like that,
does the would a county have the

1161
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:18,800
authority or the ability to specify
certain design considerations? It's like

1162
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:24,400
if you're going to put your data center
here, it has to be, you know, have the

1163
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:31,760
dry, you know, whatever it is, the open
or closed loop cooling system or you

1164
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:38,159
have to, you know, make sure that, you
know, light pollution isn't spread. Can

1165
01:58:33,599 --> 01:58:41,520
we specify those things or a county, not
necessarily Baron, but can a county do

1166
01:58:40,719 --> 01:58:44,880
that?
>> Well, that's a it's a good question.

1167
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:51,119
This is going to be a Rebecca question.
Um but there's a it's a fine line right

1168
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:58,320
between creating the structure and
framework within which uh an industry, a

1169
01:58:56,000 --> 01:59:03,040
business or an individual can conduct
their affairs

1170
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:07,119
and specifically
uh telling someone exactly how they're

1171
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:13,119
going to live their life there. That's a
fine line. Now we also have uh it's very

1172
01:59:11,599 --> 01:59:18,719
very common. It's everywhere in this
state. Conditional use permit, right?

1173
01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:25,280
Very specific. So that's a Rebecca
question which she will address. Um I

1174
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:33,599
suspect there there are some things that
we can do. Um now you can ask for

1175
01:59:29,920 --> 01:59:39,760
anything, but can you
can you make it can you can you can you

1176
01:59:36,639 --> 01:59:45,440
place conditions on exactly what you
want? Um there's going to be that's

1177
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:48,320
going to be a limit that Rebecca can
perhaps address that. I'm not I'm not

1178
01:59:47,040 --> 01:59:52,960
even sure if she has the answer today,
but we'll we'll see. It's a good

1179
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:58,239
question. No, I mean you if you if you
say I mean here's one. Let me give you a

1180
01:59:55,360 --> 02:00:02,000
a ridiculous example. Uh you can have
your you can have your business, but you

1181
02:00:00,639 --> 02:00:06,400
have to make sure that all the employees
get 17 minute breaks every day at one

1182
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:10,719
o'clock. You can't do that. Now you're
telling people how to run their

1183
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:14,800
business. or you can uh build your uh
development, but I want everybody in the

1184
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:18,560
development to have dinner at 6:15.
Well, that's ridiculous. You can't tell

1185
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:23,360
people how to live their life or how to
run their business, but can you do

1186
02:00:21,199 --> 02:00:29,360
certain things?
Certain things. Where is that line?

1187
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:33,520
That's that's for an attorney. All
right. To the assembly. I'm going to

1188
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:37,599
step out here. Um we've been at this an
hour and 45 minutes, and I'm wondering

1189
02:00:35,280 --> 02:00:41,440
if a break is necessary. So, I really
have a two-part question for the board.

1190
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:44,400
Are we are we close to a few more
questions and then a break or are we at

1191
02:00:43,119 --> 02:00:47,440
a break? What what would be the
preference? I don't want to cut anybody

1192
02:00:45,679 --> 02:00:50,639
off because that's what we have no time
limit. That's what that's the beauty of

1193
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:53,920
a committee the whole we're going to
stay here till we get the questions

1194
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:59,159
answered. But [laughter] do we need to
make our bladders gladder or what do we

1195
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:59,159
need to do here?

1196
02:00:59,199 --> 02:01:03,280
» Question. Okay. So, I'm going to go
around the room. Questions from the red

1197
02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:07,760
team.
>> I I I'm just use one more comment. So,

1198
02:01:05,679 --> 02:01:12,400
Quick Trip, uh, for the people that are
concerned about them just popping in.

1199
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:17,760
Quick just doesn't show up and
build, they did a lot of study and

1200
02:01:14,239 --> 02:01:22,080
access. These these data centers
already know if there's a site in Baron

1201
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:27,599
County that best suits their needs
because of the cost of construction,

1202
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:32,320
lines, um, and placement. Just like
solar farms, solar farms that come to

1203
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:37,520
the county had to be cited by MYSO. They
already knew, um, those spots. So that

1204
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:42,800
it's the same thing. If you have um a
sand mine, a substation that's not being

1205
02:01:40,719 --> 02:01:46,239
used, probably likely that that's that's
going to be looked at far before they

1206
02:01:44,719 --> 02:01:50,000
come and knock on your door and you're
in the middle of nowhere.

1207
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:55,040
» Okay. Any other comments from the red
team?

1208
02:01:52,159 --> 02:01:59,440
White,
blue.

1209
02:01:57,119 --> 02:02:03,520
I'm going to state that I received no
other questions from the assembly. So, I

1210
02:02:01,360 --> 02:02:07,280
am going to with the permission all
those in favor of taking a do you want a

1211
02:02:05,679 --> 02:02:09,840
10 or 15 minute break?
>> 10.

1212
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:13,119
» 10. All those in favor of a 10-minute
break from the board of supervisors,

1213
02:02:11,119 --> 02:02:20,159
raise your right hand. We're going to
take a 10-minute break. My clock says

1214
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:23,999
2:44. We will start promptly at
>> in 10 minutes. [laughter]

1215
02:11:49,679 --> 02:11:57,440
pull the Baron County Board of
Supervisors back into session.

1216
02:11:55,440 --> 02:12:06,239
Give me just a minute to get my files
organized here. We have completed

1217
02:12:00,159 --> 02:12:10,880
section 6 uh C uh sorry 6C1 with Mr.
Okonnell finishing his presentation and

1218
02:12:08,639 --> 02:12:15,840
I'll declare that the questions from the
board have ceased for him. So at this

1219
02:12:12,880 --> 02:12:20,800
time I am going to introduce
uh attorney Rebecca Roker from Atlas Law

1220
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:25,599
and let her give her presentation on the
potential ordinance that would be the uh

1221
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:29,280
underly the moratorum. So with that,
Rebecca, welcome and uh the floor is

1222
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:32,960
yours.
>> Thank you so much. Uh good afternoon

1223
02:12:31,280 --> 02:12:36,880
everyone again. I'm Rebecca Roker from
Atollis Law. Um you're probably more

1224
02:12:35,199 --> 02:12:41,599
familiar with my partner Andy Phillips
who's uh also general counsel for WCA.

1225
02:12:39,520 --> 02:12:47,119
So it's great to be here in person and
to see all of you. Um I'm going to

1226
02:12:44,719 --> 02:12:52,480
piggyback off of um Mark's presentation
a little bit. um you know he started

1227
02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:57,599
with uh this is um you know this is the
hot topic uh not only in the community

1228
02:12:55,040 --> 02:13:04,880
but also on a statewide and nationwide
basis. Um and given that data centers

1229
02:13:02,239 --> 02:13:10,880
are such a new hot topic,
we as lawyers have to view the

1230
02:13:07,920 --> 02:13:16,159
regulation of data centers through the
old lens of existing law. And so some of

1231
02:13:14,239 --> 02:13:19,760
the challenges that Andy and I and our
partners at Atollis face is how do we

1232
02:13:19,607 --> 02:13:27,520
» [clears throat]
>> utilize existing law to regulate these

1233
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:32,719
things data centers that are so new and
present very unique impacts and I'm

1234
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:38,400
going to get in more into more detail on
how and why the county may want to

1235
02:13:35,520 --> 02:13:44,639
regulate those those particular impacts.
Um but I think it's from a from a big

1236
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:49,920
picture standpoint um you know don't
underestimate the challenge that each of

1237
02:13:46,480 --> 02:13:55,440
you are facing in working within your
statutory authority as a county and

1238
02:13:52,800 --> 02:14:03,119
using that statutory authority to
address a very new and emergent issue.

1239
02:13:59,679 --> 02:14:09,199
Um, so again to piggyback on something
Mark said, um, in terms of when you are

1240
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:14,000
crafting your ordinances,
um, and the no picking of winners or

1241
02:14:11,199 --> 02:14:19,920
losers, um, I love that phrase because
it's a really nice way to explain the

1242
02:14:17,520 --> 02:14:25,679
concept of equal protection and the
constitutional protections of of the

1243
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:30,400
constitutional protection of due process
under the law and equal protection under

1244
02:14:28,079 --> 02:14:35,440
the law. And so when you're developing
your ordinances or when you have any

1245
02:14:33,119 --> 02:14:42,320
matter come before you or the zoning
committee or any body um you have to

1246
02:14:39,520 --> 02:14:47,520
ensure that due process and equal
protection are granted to that

1247
02:14:44,639 --> 02:14:55,199
applicant. And so when you're developing
your uh ordinances or whatever um if you

1248
02:14:51,679 --> 02:14:59,599
decide to regulate data centers um keep
that in mind that we have to ensure that

1249
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:03,840
not only are you operating in your
statutory authority but you're also

1250
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:10,400
operating in such a way that passes
constitutional muster.

1251
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:16,239
Um again to piggy back off of what Mark
said. Thank you Mark. Um the talking

1252
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:22,400
about some of the pros and cons, there's
a few of the the pros and cons that Mark

1253
02:15:19,280 --> 02:15:26,719
hit on that um really underscore some of
the particular legal issues. Um and as

1254
02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:30,639
I've said [clears throat] before and
Andy and I always joke like how many

1255
02:15:28,480 --> 02:15:36,880
times do we say our statutory authority
under chapter 59? Probably at least 10

1256
02:15:33,679 --> 02:15:40,639
times when we do a presentation. Or you
can't do anything that you don't have

1257
02:15:38,719 --> 02:15:45,040
authority to do. That's another one we
say all the time. Um, but the same

1258
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:51,040
applies here for data center regulation
or any regulation that the county may

1259
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:56,960
want to adopt. You can only do what what
chapter 59 or the other ways in the law

1260
02:15:54,719 --> 02:16:02,159
allows you to do. That's where counties
are different than other um governmental

1261
02:15:59,440 --> 02:16:08,880
bodies. And so when we're looking at the
pros and the cons, the first question

1262
02:16:04,320 --> 02:16:15,760
becomes what can you regulate? And so a
lot of the issues that Mark touched on

1263
02:16:10,880 --> 02:16:22,239
such as noise, dust, impact on roads,
potential size, those fall within the

1264
02:16:19,599 --> 02:16:28,239
county's statutory authority under
chapter 5969, which is your zoning

1265
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:38,479
authority. But things like water usage
or power usage um or those more um you

1266
02:16:33,040 --> 02:16:42,399
know uh I will say largecale impacts um
those you do not have statutory

1267
02:16:40,160 --> 02:16:47,120
authority to regulate. Now, we can look
to other resources, particularly as

1268
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:52,160
we're talking about a local agreement,
to build in protections for those

1269
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:55,760
issues. But again, always keep in mind
that when you're developing an

1270
02:16:53,599 --> 02:17:00,319
ordinance, you have to look at it
through the lens of what [clears throat]

1271
02:16:57,280 --> 02:17:06,960
can we do as a county under our
statutory authority.

1272
02:17:03,200 --> 02:17:12,639
Okay. Um, couple other items on the pros
and cons. I want to touch on the NDA um

1273
02:17:10,080 --> 02:17:18,080
and the non-disclosure agreements that
um certainly come under public scrutiny

1274
02:17:15,280 --> 02:17:23,599
because we as a governmental body have
an obligation for open and transparent

1275
02:17:20,559 --> 02:17:31,200
government. Um that's built into our
state law and it is uh really codified

1276
02:17:27,439 --> 02:17:38,719
in chapter 19 which includes our open
records law and our public records law.

1277
02:17:33,920 --> 02:17:46,240
Um and so in the event that the county
were to proceed with a development um

1278
02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:52,000
and the developer asked that the county
enter into an NDA, I think you could,

1279
02:17:50,160 --> 02:17:59,679
but it would still be subject to public
records. Um, if a developer said, uh,

1280
02:17:56,639 --> 02:18:05,599
no, it's accepted under chapter 19 and
therefore the county can't disclose it,

1281
02:18:02,479 --> 02:18:10,319
that is a whole other set of issues, um,
in determining whether that exception to

1282
02:18:08,399 --> 02:18:16,479
the obligation to disclose a public
record would apply. And I think that I

1283
02:18:14,319 --> 02:18:22,000
can speak for Andy. If you were uh ever
asked to enter into an NDA and it's

1284
02:18:18,719 --> 02:18:29,439
something that you wanted to uh pursue
that we would demand that a a developer

1285
02:18:26,399 --> 02:18:34,880
indemnify the county for any cost of
having to process or defend their

1286
02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:40,559
decisions under the public records law.
You know that is absolutely something

1287
02:18:37,200 --> 02:18:44,960
that becomes imperative. And again as to
you know what Mark indicated NDAs are

1288
02:18:42,639 --> 02:18:50,000
very important in the private sector.
They can be very important in the public

1289
02:18:47,120 --> 02:18:55,040
sector also you know particularly if
we're talking about negotiating from the

1290
02:18:52,160 --> 02:18:59,359
county's position in making sure that
negotiations are protecting the county.

1291
02:18:57,599 --> 02:19:03,920
But again we always have to view that
through the lens of what state law

1292
02:19:01,040 --> 02:19:09,599
requires for public records. Um, so if
you hear of a community or a

1293
02:19:05,760 --> 02:19:13,439
municipality that is taking a a bright
line like, "Nope, we can't disclose

1294
02:19:11,359 --> 02:19:18,399
there." There there most likely is some
other public records issue. Um, and or

1295
02:19:16,880 --> 02:19:24,880
there at least should be that public
records analysis at play.

1296
02:19:21,200 --> 02:19:32,800
All right. Um, let's see. Oh, very
briefly on um the the lawsuits that Mark

1297
02:19:27,920 --> 02:19:39,439
mentioned, um the uh the tariff matter
uh involving Wii Energies and the PSC

1298
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:45,359
order. Um that is currently in front of
the Ozaki County Circuit Court. Um

1299
02:19:42,960 --> 02:19:50,000
because it's an appeal of a PSC
decision, it has not gone far yet. I

1300
02:19:48,240 --> 02:19:54,479
would assume that it's going to, you
know, continue through the process. Um,

1301
02:19:52,960 --> 02:19:57,920
and then with respect to the Mount
Pleasant case, that's a that's a

1302
02:19:56,399 --> 02:20:03,280
fascinating case from a legal
perspective because it was brought by

1303
02:20:00,080 --> 02:20:10,240
three property owners as a private
nuisance and negligence claim directly

1304
02:20:06,399 --> 02:20:15,600
against Microsoft. And so that is very
much in the early stages as well. So we

1305
02:20:12,399 --> 02:20:20,399
don't know um how this this case is
going to play out. And really the issue

1306
02:20:17,280 --> 02:20:25,520
is does a private land owner have a
private cause of action against a

1307
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:31,680
company for impacts of a development on
their quality of life and does that rise

1308
02:20:28,080 --> 02:20:35,920
to the level of negligence um that is
compensible under the law. So that's a

1309
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:42,319
that's a very fascinating case.
Fortunately uh the county uh the

1310
02:20:39,359 --> 02:20:47,439
counties at in that area um have not
been named in that lawsuit. I don't

1311
02:20:44,160 --> 02:20:51,359
think uh well we'll wait to see if they
are. There's no indication at this point

1312
02:20:48,880 --> 02:20:56,240
that they will be named um because it is
that private cause of action um on

1313
02:20:54,080 --> 02:21:00,880
behalf of the landowner against the
developer.

1314
02:20:57,760 --> 02:21:05,439
Um and that case interestingly is in uh
federal court. It was brought in the

1315
02:21:02,399 --> 02:21:10,479
seventh circuit um the eastern district
of Wisconsin of the seventh circuit. So

1316
02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:16,720
we will keep monitoring that that case
uh as well.

1317
02:21:12,640 --> 02:21:23,520
Um, so all of those all of these issues
really lead up to the question of what

1318
02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:28,080
can Baron County do? You we talked about
the statutory authority requirement. We

1319
02:21:25,840 --> 02:21:33,040
talked about um, you know, some of the
issues that arise and the pros and cons.

1320
02:21:30,240 --> 02:21:38,160
So what can you do? Again, I think this
is time number four. You can only do

1321
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:42,800
what the statutes allow you to do. you
can only do what you have authorization

1322
02:21:40,080 --> 02:21:50,479
to do under chapter 59 or any anywhere
else under the law. Um and so what you

1323
02:21:47,120 --> 02:22:00,560
um have in front of you um or what was
in the agenda packet is that temporary

1324
02:21:54,319 --> 02:22:06,160
moratorum on data center development. Um
and there are certain restrictions in

1325
02:22:03,200 --> 02:22:12,800
the Wisconsin statutes on whether a
county may adopt a moratorum. Um

1326
02:22:09,840 --> 02:22:17,160
development moratorum are addressed in
uh chapter 66 66.102

1327
02:22:17,280 --> 02:22:27,439
that interestingly accepts counties out.
So we have a different playbook that we

1328
02:22:23,200 --> 02:22:35,200
have to follow. Chapter 59 5969 I
believe it's sub4 allows the county to

1329
02:22:30,479 --> 02:22:42,000
adopt a moratorum if there are very uh
limited if it falls within very limited

1330
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:48,880
parameters. Um and the the question or
comment was made before that a moratorum

1331
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:54,399
may be appropriate but it absolutely
should not be a tool to either kick the

1332
02:22:51,760 --> 02:23:01,359
can down the road and decide to regulate
later or to stop a development. And

1333
02:22:58,160 --> 02:23:09,280
that's what um we see at times on the
statewide level where a municipality um

1334
02:23:05,760 --> 02:23:13,920
will adopt a moratorum in an attempt to
get a developer to look elsewhere. And

1335
02:23:12,080 --> 02:23:18,720
that's not specifically with respect to
data centers. We see that with other

1336
02:23:16,160 --> 02:23:25,359
types of development as well. But as
legal counsel we would advise you that

1337
02:23:21,680 --> 02:23:32,399
your um your any moratorum has to be
very narrowly defined um and has to fall

1338
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:39,439
within your authority under chapter 59.
So what you have in front of you is just

1339
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:45,040
that. Um so we um Andy and I developed
this uh draft moratorum using your

1340
02:23:42,240 --> 02:23:50,560
statute authority statutory authority in
chapter 59 is the baseline and again

1341
02:23:48,560 --> 02:23:56,160
because we can only regulate what we can
under chapter 59. It is a zoning

1342
02:23:52,960 --> 02:24:02,160
ordinance. Um and so therefore it would
apply in areas of Baron County that are

1343
02:24:00,319 --> 02:24:08,960
unincorporated.
um and have uh have are subject to

1344
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:15,280
county zoning. Um so that's one really
important distinction to make that

1345
02:24:11,680 --> 02:24:20,800
should Baron County adopt a data center
ordinance, it is not going to be a

1346
02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:26,080
countywide ordinance per se, it is only
going to apply in those unincorporated

1347
02:24:23,200 --> 02:24:30,960
areas because again it's being adopted
under your zoning authority.

1348
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:38,080
Um the second reason that's really
important is because the county can or

1349
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:43,680
can only adopt a moratorum for a zoning
matter. [snorts] There may be other um

1350
02:24:40,640 --> 02:24:49,840
outlying uh exceptions to that rule. But
again because your authority to adopt a

1351
02:24:46,720 --> 02:24:54,560
moratorum comes from 5969 which is your
zoning authority. Um, from our

1352
02:24:52,479 --> 02:25:00,240
perspective, the easiest rule of thumb
is a moratorum should only be adopted

1353
02:24:57,200 --> 02:25:08,240
for a zoning regulation.
And so the purpose of adopting a

1354
02:25:02,960 --> 02:25:13,920
moratorum is really to put a pause to do
the investigation, do the research, do

1355
02:25:11,280 --> 02:25:20,160
the development and the drafting of a
particular ordinance that meets the

1356
02:25:16,319 --> 02:25:24,960
policy goals of the county. And based on
the information in the packet, it's

1357
02:25:22,160 --> 02:25:29,840
clear that the county has already done a
lot of that research and a lot of that

1358
02:25:27,359 --> 02:25:34,800
information gathering and even a lot of
the investigation.

1359
02:25:31,680 --> 02:25:40,560
But I think that that is what tees up
your development moratorum for a uh a

1360
02:25:38,319 --> 02:25:44,640
very strong position because you're not
coming out and saying, you know what,

1361
02:25:42,160 --> 02:25:48,240
we're starting 100% fresh. We've got to
put a two-year time limit on this. We

1362
02:25:46,479 --> 02:25:52,160
don't know anything. The fact that
you've already researched these issues

1363
02:25:49,920 --> 02:25:56,560
and you know what issues need to be
addressed in greater detail I think

1364
02:25:54,319 --> 02:26:02,160
really works in the county's benefit um
and would be if I had to legally defend

1365
02:25:59,520 --> 02:26:06,479
your development moratorium ordinance um
that would be that would definitely be

1366
02:26:03,840 --> 02:26:14,160
in the the pro category.
Um one other quick final point on the uh

1367
02:26:10,720 --> 02:26:22,240
moratorum that is an ordinance and so
under the law um a a moratorum must be

1368
02:26:18,399 --> 02:26:26,960
adopted by a county as an ordinance. So
if you hear um you know other

1369
02:26:24,800 --> 02:26:32,880
municipalities or counties throughout
the state that are taking action on the

1370
02:26:30,319 --> 02:26:38,080
development on a development moratorum
or a data center moratorum and they're

1371
02:26:35,359 --> 02:26:44,240
doing it by resolution uh they did not
consult uh ais first um because for a

1372
02:26:41,359 --> 02:26:49,840
county you must do it by resolution. We
think that that's a very clear

1373
02:26:45,760 --> 02:26:55,760
definitive answer in the law. Um,
let's see. Trying to see. Oh, I also

1374
02:26:53,120 --> 02:27:00,000
wanted to touch on two other issues. I
might be backpedaling a little bit um to

1375
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:04,560
to circle back to what Mark talked
about, but these are two issues that you

1376
02:27:02,399 --> 02:27:11,040
can also address within the time frame
of your development moratorium on data

1377
02:27:06,960 --> 02:27:17,760
centers is the um the particular issues
of citing that you do have authority to

1378
02:27:15,120 --> 02:27:24,000
address under chapter 59. One of them
being crop land and prime agricultural

1379
02:27:21,439 --> 02:27:29,120
lands being used for development. Now,
there are some statewide statutory

1380
02:27:26,720 --> 02:27:35,840
restrictions that preempt county
regulation. Um, but certainly the zoning

1381
02:27:33,120 --> 02:27:40,800
categories of, you know, the prime egg
land or the relationship between or any

1382
02:27:38,800 --> 02:27:44,640
agreements between the county and dad
cap for those enterprise areas. Those

1383
02:27:42,800 --> 02:27:50,560
are certainly things that you can
explore um as you develop an ordinance,

1384
02:27:47,840 --> 02:27:56,399
a data center regulatory ordinance. Um
and then again, other items that are are

1385
02:27:53,200 --> 02:28:03,520
ripe for uh county regulation, things
like uh noise suppression, um

1386
02:27:59,200 --> 02:28:10,080
landscaping, BMS, um dust, light
pollution. Um we often get the question

1387
02:28:06,479 --> 02:28:15,920
of the size and the magnitude of some of
these projects. Well, how can we I'll

1388
02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:22,319
just say uh no one from Baron County has
asked this question, but um how can we

1389
02:28:18,960 --> 02:28:29,680
stop a you know this this million square
foot project? And it's really hard to

1390
02:28:26,319 --> 02:28:35,280
define a data center in such a way that
we're talking just about a data center.

1391
02:28:32,080 --> 02:28:40,080
And it comes back to the winning of or
the choosing of winners and losers

1392
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:45,920
because in a lot of ways what's how is a
data center different than an Amazon

1393
02:28:42,640 --> 02:28:51,040
distribution center? Yes, many of the
there may be the factors of water

1394
02:28:48,240 --> 02:28:55,760
consumption or water usage, energy
consumption, um things of that nature.

1395
02:28:53,520 --> 02:29:01,600
But keep in mind those don't fall within
the county's regulatory authority. So,

1396
02:28:58,960 --> 02:29:06,640
we have to look to what is it that
you're going to be regulating, how and

1397
02:29:04,399 --> 02:29:11,760
what basis you have for those those
whats um and then how we're going to

1398
02:29:08,880 --> 02:29:16,399
build those into an ordinance.
Um then with respect to local

1399
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:22,240
agreements, local agreements are really
a fantastic tool for the county um

1400
02:29:20,240 --> 02:29:29,920
because a you have statutory authority
to do them. Um and uh they really truly

1401
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:36,080
are an armslength agreement. So when you
are negotiating with a data center

1402
02:29:32,479 --> 02:29:44,000
developer or a solar developer or other
developers, you can ask for things that

1403
02:29:41,280 --> 02:29:49,920
you may not have explicit statutory
authority to regulate say within a

1404
02:29:46,479 --> 02:29:54,160
conditional use process. So for example
requiring an environmental study as we

1405
02:29:52,240 --> 02:30:00,399
is the question was answered or asked
before either it um an environmental

1406
02:29:57,439 --> 02:30:05,680
assessment or an uh environmental impact
statement. Those are the the threshold

1407
02:30:03,359 --> 02:30:09,680
um environmental test used at the state
level whenever there is a significant

1408
02:30:07,760 --> 02:30:15,200
state action.
You could potentially build into your

1409
02:30:12,240 --> 02:30:21,840
local agreement that an environmental
assessment must be completed. Um, now

1410
02:30:19,200 --> 02:30:25,200
again, that's an armslength negotiation.
So, the developers may say, "No, go

1411
02:30:23,680 --> 02:30:29,920
pound sand. We're not doing that for the
county." Um, but that is certainly

1412
02:30:27,760 --> 02:30:36,399
something that you could ask for within
the context of that local agreement. Um,

1413
02:30:33,600 --> 02:30:41,280
other items that are that Andy and I
feel are so important to flush out in

1414
02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:45,840
those local agreements are things like
emergency response particularly, you

1415
02:30:43,760 --> 02:30:52,640
know, in your community when you have um
a lot of voluntary volunteer um first

1416
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:57,600
responders. So those types of issues um
training uh and then again roads. What

1417
02:30:55,840 --> 02:31:02,080
are the impact on the roads? Not only
for the well, mainly for the

1418
02:30:59,760 --> 02:31:05,520
construction equipment coming in. You've
got all these construction workers

1419
02:31:03,680 --> 02:31:10,479
coming in. What are what's the impact on
the roads or the traffic patterns? Um

1420
02:31:08,319 --> 02:31:16,720
items like that may be addressed in a
local agreement. Um, and then you know

1421
02:31:14,240 --> 02:31:22,080
just again it can be uh I don't want to
say a wish list because it certainly um

1422
02:31:19,439 --> 02:31:27,200
should be reasonable but there are
things that um counties have asked for

1423
02:31:25,200 --> 02:31:33,359
within the context of a development
agreement that you know off right away

1424
02:31:30,479 --> 02:31:38,640
seem like kind of absurd. Um, for
example, a county and local first

1425
02:31:35,840 --> 02:31:45,120
responders may need a specific fire
truck to be able to go up to a certain

1426
02:31:41,760 --> 02:31:51,120
level to suppress um a fire that's
created or that that the technology is

1427
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:56,560
required in order to properly suppress
that fire. They need a really high boom

1428
02:31:53,840 --> 02:32:02,240
lift. And so that's something in a local
agreement that was worked in that the

1429
02:31:59,120 --> 02:32:07,280
developer paid for. Again, it off the
top of my head, it sounds it sounds

1430
02:32:04,319 --> 02:32:12,800
pretty extreme like, hey, we get a new,
you know, emergency response truck. Um,

1431
02:32:10,080 --> 02:32:18,399
but again, because it was rooted in a
justifiable basis, they needed to have

1432
02:32:15,359 --> 02:32:24,000
that specialized equipment in order to
perform their duty, um, i.e., um,

1433
02:32:21,359 --> 02:32:27,439
provide emergency responses.
Last item I wanted to touch on and of

1434
02:32:26,000 --> 02:32:35,600
course and we'll open it up to
questions. um with respect to the

1435
02:32:30,319 --> 02:32:41,120
property tax issue um and the um the you
know if a a data center developer

1436
02:32:38,720 --> 02:32:46,000
um from what I what I understand just
based on the comments it sounds like the

1437
02:32:43,760 --> 02:32:50,720
data center would structure its
transaction in such a way that it would

1438
02:32:47,840 --> 02:32:57,280
just lease the property um and then
therefore it wouldn't own the real

1439
02:32:53,760 --> 02:33:03,280
property and so what would be taxed is
the improvement movement that's built on

1440
02:33:00,080 --> 02:33:10,560
that footprint. Um there was a recent
change under act 12 um in the statutes

1441
02:33:06,640 --> 02:33:15,760
that modified the taxation of certain
personal properties um buildings,

1442
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:21,920
fixtures and improvements that were
previously taxed as personal property.

1443
02:33:18,479 --> 02:33:26,160
Now they are taxed as real property. And
the the basis that um that I've

1444
02:33:24,640 --> 02:33:30,720
encountered this is with respect to
airport hangers. um because those sit on

1445
02:33:29,359 --> 02:33:37,120
top of the land and then they are
technically or they were categorized for

1446
02:33:33,680 --> 02:33:41,520
tax purposes as personal property. Well,
now they're being taxed as part of the

1447
02:33:39,120 --> 02:33:47,200
real property. So Andy has been very
involved with um many groups on uh

1448
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:52,640
throughout the state for trailer
legislation to fix some of the errors

1449
02:33:50,000 --> 02:33:57,600
and some of the complications in that
bill. Uh but I just wanted you to be

1450
02:33:54,800 --> 02:34:01,760
aware of that that um the cons if there
is a you know a threshold concern of we

1451
02:34:00,319 --> 02:34:06,560
don't want to have a data center come to
Baron County because of this tax issue.

1452
02:34:04,319 --> 02:34:10,800
There may be several other elements that
need to be looked at in play and I'm not

1453
02:34:08,560 --> 02:34:16,479
familiar with the the Dunn County
example. Um so I can't speak to that but

1454
02:34:13,439 --> 02:34:23,200
again just wanted to to mention Act 12
and uh the updates to the statutes on

1455
02:34:19,520 --> 02:34:25,680
those property tax assessment issues.
All right.

1456
02:34:24,160 --> 02:34:28,960
» You ready for questions?
>> Yeah. Absolutely.

1457
02:34:26,800 --> 02:34:33,040
» So, we'll go we'll go this way. We'll go
blue team first. You get to ask Rebecca

1458
02:34:31,280 --> 02:34:39,920
questions. Uh we'll start with the blue
team. Supervisor Turkot.

1459
02:34:37,200 --> 02:34:45,439
» Uh again, thank you for uh taking the
time to come up here. Uh my question

1460
02:34:42,240 --> 02:34:53,040
would be to municipalities,
townships that already have

1461
02:34:48,319 --> 02:35:00,560
buildings of magnitude on them that um
could be a commercial farm. Um can you

1462
02:34:56,960 --> 02:35:07,040
put a moratorum to stop something else?
And the other example would be Lakeland

1463
02:35:02,800 --> 02:35:14,240
Township where the steel plant put up a
ginormous building.

1464
02:35:09,439 --> 02:35:19,600
Um can Can you now limit it or is it are
they a

1465
02:35:16,560 --> 02:35:22,880
Are you picking winners and losers?
>> Um, excuse me. [clears throat] I might

1466
02:35:21,359 --> 02:35:28,560
have to kick it over to your corporation
council if I lost my voice. Excuse me.

1467
02:35:25,600 --> 02:35:33,040
I'm so sorry. Um, can you help me
understand the question a little bit

1468
02:35:29,920 --> 02:35:39,280
better? Is it um whether the county
could adopt

1469
02:35:35,120 --> 02:35:42,000
a moratorum on redevelopment of certain
properties like certain commercial

1470
02:35:41,280 --> 02:35:46,880
properties
>> if they're looking at putting um well

1471
02:35:44,800 --> 02:35:52,880
some of the townships like Lakeland
Township I believe passed a

1472
02:35:50,720 --> 02:36:00,000
moratorum
and um but they've allowed uh you know a

1473
02:35:56,800 --> 02:36:05,120
few years ago um a a steel plant to put
up a like a I think a 200,000 square

1474
02:36:03,520 --> 02:36:11,359
foot
manufacturing plant. Are are you now

1475
02:36:07,920 --> 02:36:15,520
being able to put a moratorum in to to
stifle something else?

1476
02:36:13,840 --> 02:36:18,319
» Um, okay. I think I understand your
question better. That's a great

1477
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:22,960
question. Excuse [clears throat] me. And
I can't speak, you know, as obviously as

1478
02:36:20,160 --> 02:36:28,960
legal counsel for the town and I haven't
reviewed the town of Lakeland's

1479
02:36:24,960 --> 02:36:33,840
moratorum ordinance. Um but what I can
say is your or your development

1480
02:36:31,439 --> 02:36:40,720
moratorum ordinance should be structured
in such a way that it's very specific.

1481
02:36:37,280 --> 02:36:47,760
So if I were to put my hat on as council
for the town and we had that specific

1482
02:36:43,520 --> 02:36:53,280
parcel at issue, I would if you call
that parcel out, it would have to be in

1483
02:36:50,160 --> 02:36:58,960
a very particularized manner. So you are
not specifically targeting that parcel

1484
02:36:57,280 --> 02:37:03,520
and you'd have to do some creative
drafting which you know legally

1485
02:37:01,200 --> 02:37:10,160
appropriate creative drafting to really
hone in on what the specific issue is

1486
02:37:07,600 --> 02:37:16,200
that needs to be further investigated
and further studied during that term of

1487
02:37:12,960 --> 02:37:16,200
the moratorum.

1488
02:37:17,760 --> 02:37:26,720
» Other questions? Supervisor Oki.
Right now there's four townships that

1489
02:37:24,080 --> 02:37:31,439
have set up moratoriums
and uh two that are not part of Baron

1490
02:37:29,680 --> 02:37:36,240
County zoning. That would be the town of
Lakeland and the town of Dover. There

1491
02:37:34,240 --> 02:37:42,880
are two other ones that are part of
county zoning. Town of Maple Plane and

1492
02:37:38,960 --> 02:37:48,319
town of Doyle. How if we passed an
moratorum like you have outlined here,

1493
02:37:45,359 --> 02:37:54,960
what is the effect on the un you know
basically unzone versus the zoned towns?

1494
02:37:51,359 --> 02:38:02,479
» That is a great question. Um and to put
it simply it the moratorum would not

1495
02:37:59,359 --> 02:38:07,600
apply to the two towns that are not
subject to county zoning. So, I think

1496
02:38:04,720 --> 02:38:11,120
you said Lakeland and
Dover,

1497
02:38:08,960 --> 02:38:16,399
» which Supervisor Vaughn happens to be
the chair of the town of Dover.

1498
02:38:13,520 --> 02:38:22,880
» Awesome. [snorts] Um, so because those
two townships have not opted into county

1499
02:38:19,600 --> 02:38:29,359
zoning under 5969,
because this development moratorum is a

1500
02:38:26,000 --> 02:38:36,399
zoning ordinance, it would not apply in
those two townships. Now if there are

1501
02:38:33,840 --> 02:38:42,080
other townships that have adopted
moratoria on data centers

1502
02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:47,840
whether or how the structure of the
application um really depends on the

1503
02:38:44,800 --> 02:38:53,680
terms of what their moratorum says and I
I apologize I haven't reviewed those so

1504
02:38:50,000 --> 02:39:00,319
I can't speak to those um but again if
the county were to proceed um with a

1505
02:38:57,840 --> 02:39:04,560
moratorum as as set forth you know in
your agenda packet

1506
02:39:02,080 --> 02:39:11,200
again, it would apply um into those
unincorporated areas that are subject to

1507
02:39:07,520 --> 02:39:18,800
county zoning. Um and so even if one of
those townships had adopted their own

1508
02:39:16,240 --> 02:39:21,800
ortorium, um the counties would still
apply.

1509
02:39:26,479 --> 02:39:33,920
» Other questions?
Supervisor Fawn,

1510
02:39:31,040 --> 02:39:40,720
» you um reference the county's authority
to regulate often. Does do you know is

1511
02:39:37,520 --> 02:39:43,680
the town's authority to regulate similar
items or are there differences in what

1512
02:39:42,399 --> 02:39:46,960
they can regulate?
>> Um

1513
02:39:45,280 --> 02:39:52,399
there are generally there are
differences um because well and it it

1514
02:39:49,840 --> 02:39:59,359
also depends too on whether a town has
adopted uh village zoning authority

1515
02:39:55,439 --> 02:40:05,680
under chapter 60. Um so
if a town has adopted village authority

1516
02:40:02,399 --> 02:40:10,319
their their zoning powers um immediately
become broader um and they fall within

1517
02:40:08,319 --> 02:40:14,880
that township then falls within the
municipal structure and municipal

1518
02:40:12,240 --> 02:40:22,640
authority for zoning which is broader
than a county's authority. Certainly

1519
02:40:19,359 --> 02:40:28,080
» other questions.
Seeing and hearing none we'll proceed on

1520
02:40:24,479 --> 02:40:28,080
to the white team.

1521
02:40:30,399 --> 02:40:36,880
Seeing and hearing none, over to the red
team up. Supervisor Fowler,

1522
02:40:35,439 --> 02:40:41,840
» thank you for being here and appreciate
all the information. Just a question

1523
02:40:38,479 --> 02:40:50,240
about the NDAs. Is there um a way a
company then could work with the um

1524
02:40:46,560 --> 02:40:55,040
economic development corporation for the
in the county that's not regulated by

1525
02:40:53,520 --> 02:41:00,240
the county? Did they work through the
NDAs that way and then have the

1526
02:40:58,479 --> 02:41:02,800
» Oh, I see. So, essentially get around
the public records correct law.

1527
02:41:02,399 --> 02:41:10,880
» Correct.
>> Um potentially um certain entities

1528
02:41:09,120 --> 02:41:15,920
um depending on how they are structured.
So, certain economic development

1529
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:22,319
entities may also be subject to public
records. Um so, for the first question

1530
02:41:18,160 --> 02:41:27,680
would be is that entity um subject to
chapter 19? um and therefore has to

1531
02:41:25,600 --> 02:41:34,399
disclose public records. Let's say for
argument's sake it's not. Um so then no

1532
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:38,240
it that entity would not have to
disclose those documents as a public

1533
02:41:36,720 --> 02:41:44,720
record.
But then I would question um what to

1534
02:41:42,000 --> 02:41:49,760
what extent would those documents be
pertaining to the county's work? Because

1535
02:41:47,280 --> 02:41:54,160
if the county was going to be taking
action obviously those documents would

1536
02:41:52,399 --> 02:42:00,319
need to come to the county at some
point. Um so maybe early in the process

1537
02:41:57,439 --> 02:42:06,240
there could be some avoidance of uh
public records disclosure but certainly

1538
02:42:03,600 --> 02:42:09,720
um you know moving forward the county
would have to comply.

1539
02:42:10,560 --> 02:42:13,960
» Other questions.

1540
02:42:14,960 --> 02:42:20,120
» Supervisor Cook.
>> Yes you are.

1541
02:42:21,439 --> 02:42:28,319
So the moratorum the one that
>> please use your mic please let me turn

1542
02:42:25,680 --> 02:42:31,600
it on please. uh in the moratorum of
this temporary moratorum that is

1543
02:42:30,080 --> 02:42:36,479
presented here.
>> Um and in reading that um the zoning

1544
02:42:34,800 --> 02:42:41,359
committee
would then two questions really the why

1545
02:42:39,760 --> 02:42:46,720
would it not come out of the zoning
committee but if the moratorum is passed

1546
02:42:44,319 --> 02:42:51,439
um the zoning committee then goes to
work on a full-fledged ordinance

1547
02:42:49,120 --> 02:43:00,240
pertaining to data centers actually
being built. Um so ye yes um if the

1548
02:42:56,080 --> 02:43:04,160
moratorum is adopted uh the whomever is
you know the appointed authorities

1549
02:43:01,680 --> 02:43:10,800
within this ordinance are then directed
by the county board to do this deeper

1550
02:43:07,280 --> 02:43:16,399
investigate investigatory work. So it
could be addressing all of the issues

1551
02:43:13,600 --> 02:43:22,000
that you know many have raised via
questions today. Um it may be looking at

1552
02:43:19,520 --> 02:43:28,240
other sample ordinances. what do we want
to use from other communities, other

1553
02:43:24,960 --> 02:43:34,720
counties that have developed um data
center regulatory ordinances? Um and so

1554
02:43:32,319 --> 02:43:39,920
that's really oftentimes where the the
bulk the meat of the work is done.

1555
02:43:37,120 --> 02:43:44,960
Oftentimes it's through the um zoning
and planning administrator um and then

1556
02:43:42,880 --> 02:43:51,200
working with your county administrator
as like a a team and then it's presented

1557
02:43:48,240 --> 02:43:56,560
um to a zoning committee. Um, so it will
will certainly go through or the issue

1558
02:43:54,560 --> 02:44:01,279
of whether to adopt and with an eye
pointing towards adopting some

1559
02:43:59,200 --> 02:44:05,359
regulation there. There's a whole lot of
work that goes into that.

1560
02:44:02,479 --> 02:44:09,680
» And would those um public meetings be
held through the zoning or through the

1561
02:44:07,520 --> 02:44:14,399
county board?
>> Um, those I believe would be the Well,

1562
02:44:12,479 --> 02:44:16,080
you could structure it any way you want
to,

1563
02:44:14,720 --> 02:44:19,680
» but typically they would go through the
zoning committee. Yeah, because the

1564
02:44:17,680 --> 02:44:23,200
zoning committee is really going to be
the, you know, the the committee of

1565
02:44:21,520 --> 02:44:26,560
jurisdiction, if you will, because it's
going to be a zoning ordinance. So, it

1566
02:44:25,120 --> 02:44:30,640
would absolutely be appropriate to have
them at the zoning committee.

1567
02:44:29,040 --> 02:44:34,880
» May I jump in and get clarification
because he's Supervisor Cook has kind of

1568
02:44:32,479 --> 02:44:38,080
hit on something. So, is this I'm going
to rephrase it from you that board

1569
02:44:36,319 --> 02:44:42,880
supervisor that either talked to me or
called me. So, is this a two-step

1570
02:44:40,080 --> 02:44:49,840
process? And I'm trying to rephrase
questions. So is it appropriate Rebecca

1571
02:44:46,640 --> 02:44:55,439
the potentially the moratorum is enacted
upon by the county board on October 19th

1572
02:44:52,399 --> 02:44:58,960
that sets forth the the breathing space.
So then is the mortori mor moratorum as

1573
02:44:57,600 --> 02:45:04,160
you've printed and presented in the
packet could be voted upon

1574
02:45:01,760 --> 02:45:08,240
on October 19th then that gives the
zoning committee the time to work on the

1575
02:45:05,920 --> 02:45:13,600
details and then they bring back what
goes into the zoning ordinance. Is that

1576
02:45:10,479 --> 02:45:19,840
correct or is it what is that wrong?
>> No, that's that's correct from the um

1577
02:45:17,840 --> 02:45:23,520
steps 2 3 4 process.
>> Okay.

1578
02:45:20,319 --> 02:45:28,080
» Would you have the development moratorum
come from your zoning committee as a

1579
02:45:26,080 --> 02:45:32,000
recommendation then go to the county
board in October?

1580
02:45:30,160 --> 02:45:35,279
» I'm not getting that sense from the
board members that have talked to me.

1581
02:45:33,600 --> 02:45:38,640
they'd like to do it where okay we'll
put the moratorum in place then refer it

1582
02:45:37,200 --> 02:45:43,520
to the zoning committee and give them
the moratorum time to work on whatever

1583
02:45:41,200 --> 02:45:47,439
and then bring back all their work back
to the county board that allows the our

1584
02:45:45,760 --> 02:45:52,000
new land services director to be
involved to do the research to publicly

1585
02:45:49,840 --> 02:45:56,560
post the public mo meeting notices so
people can come talk to that group of

1586
02:45:53,760 --> 02:46:00,080
five that way we're building we're
building to get to the endgame which is

1587
02:45:58,720 --> 02:46:03,120
you know some of the controls you're
talking about that's the feedback I've

1588
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:05,920
gotten from the three or four boards
that thought to me

1589
02:46:04,240 --> 02:46:10,160
» and that is absolutely what I would
recommend for that that endgame, you

1590
02:46:08,560 --> 02:46:12,640
know, that end point
>> ordinance. Absolutely.

1591
02:46:11,439 --> 02:46:16,399
» Reser Cook, does that help kind of
explain some of the questions you

1592
02:46:14,399 --> 02:46:19,120
» Well, I understand the process. I just
want to clarify that should be the

1593
02:46:18,160 --> 02:46:24,800
process
>> that

1594
02:46:21,760 --> 02:46:29,920
once you have a [clears throat] need uh
for an ordinance. Yes.

1595
02:46:27,600 --> 02:46:34,800
» Oh, can I ask something about that? You
know,

1596
02:46:32,640 --> 02:46:37,279
» right? Let's just let's just let
Supervisor Cook has the floor. I'm just

1597
02:46:36,399 --> 02:46:40,720
asking Supervisor Cook.
>> No, no. I I would I would give him

1598
02:46:39,520 --> 02:46:45,279
leeway.
>> All right. You'll yield? Yes. Okay.

1599
02:46:42,880 --> 02:46:48,160
Supervisor Cook, excuse me. Supervisor
Cook is yielding the floor to Supervisor

1600
02:46:47,120 --> 02:46:53,920
Oki. So, I'm going to recognize
Supervisor Oki at this time.

1601
02:46:50,399 --> 02:46:59,040
» Okay. So, you know, again, I'm trying to
get us as supervisors educated and do

1602
02:46:56,640 --> 02:47:03,760
what's right for Baron County. Today was
a very good start for that. I believe

1603
02:47:00,880 --> 02:47:10,160
the 29th is and any work we want to do
on our own. Um but if it does come to

1604
02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:13,760
let's just say I want to wait at least
until October's board meeting which I

1605
02:47:12,000 --> 02:47:19,040
think you said is whatever
>> October 19th this built room.

1606
02:47:16,560 --> 02:47:22,880
» If if you know we'll be voting let's
just say on whether we want to have a

1607
02:47:20,720 --> 02:47:27,359
moratorum or not. There may be some of
us that say, "Geez, based on the

1608
02:47:24,560 --> 02:47:31,920
information, I think we ought to explore
data centers." Then there may be

1609
02:47:29,600 --> 02:47:36,800
somebody that said, "I don't ever want a
data center here, but I got to be

1610
02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:40,720
careful how we structure the moratorium
that really realizing it's just

1611
02:47:38,479 --> 02:47:44,640
temporary." And then there may be the
ones in the middle that say, "Yeah,

1612
02:47:42,560 --> 02:47:49,120
let's really do the moratorium to do do
factf finding more than we have

1613
02:47:46,479 --> 02:47:55,279
already." Does it? And it has to go
through zoning. But does it have to

1614
02:47:52,160 --> 02:47:59,120
could there be a zoning looking at it
and an ad hoc committee to do all the

1615
02:47:57,040 --> 02:48:02,800
factf finding or does it have to be the
zoning?

1616
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:08,720
» No, you can certainly have if if you
wanted to have a specific ad hoc

1617
02:48:04,640 --> 02:48:12,880
committee overseeing that investigation
um you could do so. I I'm just thinking

1618
02:48:11,200 --> 02:48:20,479
just and please don't take anything
personal anybody but you know Mike Judy

1619
02:48:17,359 --> 02:48:26,000
Ellie local emergency planning committer
he might be very helpful on this Fran

1620
02:48:23,200 --> 02:48:29,920
who knows this stuff
Randy it might come to you know I I like

1621
02:48:28,080 --> 02:48:35,120
your intelligence but you know you are
the board president of of a utility

1622
02:48:33,279 --> 02:48:40,160
there could be somebody saying you
shouldn't be on that you know so I I'm

1623
02:48:37,840 --> 02:48:45,439
just I I'm I'm just throwing this out.
Please don't, you know, these are things

1624
02:48:41,760 --> 02:48:48,399
I I want to just talk about here when we
get down the road. So, I'm just giving

1625
02:48:47,439 --> 02:48:51,359
you things to think about.
>> Okay, Supervisor Cook, you have the

1626
02:48:50,319 --> 02:48:54,560
floor.
>> I wish I went to relinquish any time to

1627
02:48:53,760 --> 02:48:58,479
chairman.
>> Well, sir, the floor is yours, sir.

1628
02:48:56,560 --> 02:49:04,399
» No, I'm good till the next round.
>> Okay, so he's yielded the floor,

1629
02:49:00,319 --> 02:49:11,040
supervisor. So on on that point I mean
when you consider the moratorum

1630
02:49:07,760 --> 02:49:16,960
uh that second part is important the the
second part being and then we're going

1631
02:49:13,279 --> 02:49:22,319
to examine um you know do the work on
what happens after the moratorum because

1632
02:49:19,600 --> 02:49:24,319
if you don't do the second part you
don't have a moratorum you just have a

1633
02:49:23,680 --> 02:49:27,120
ban
>> right

1634
02:49:24,960 --> 02:49:32,479
» and that's much different and that's
where we run into potential trouble. So

1635
02:49:29,920 --> 02:49:37,200
that second part really is important. So
if you're going to if you're going to do

1636
02:49:33,840 --> 02:49:40,720
that that you need to do the second part
too.

1637
02:49:38,800 --> 02:49:44,080
» In fact the first part gives you time to
do the second part. It's the only reason

1638
02:49:42,160 --> 02:49:47,600
that I would even consider doing it.
Right. But yeah

1639
02:49:45,359 --> 02:49:51,439
» and supervisor Cook and in in reference
to your comments to me before we have

1640
02:49:49,600 --> 02:49:55,920
not had public comment yet. It's
becumbent upon ourselves to hear from

1641
02:49:53,439 --> 02:49:59,120
the public before we put this moratorum
in place.

1642
02:49:56,720 --> 02:50:02,160
» I agree. Supervisor Anderson, you have
the floor.

1643
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:08,880
» I do. Um, thank you. Um, you mentioned
something about land that's leased.

1644
02:50:06,319 --> 02:50:13,520
» So, would the property owner still be
responsible for property taxes if it's

1645
02:50:11,520 --> 02:50:17,359
leased?
>> Sure.

1646
02:50:14,880 --> 02:50:24,479
» Yes. Um,
uh, depending on the terms of the lease

1647
02:50:21,439 --> 02:50:30,960
agreement. Um but a an owner certainly
is still responsible for uh or to ensure

1648
02:50:28,720 --> 02:50:36,399
that property taxes are paid. Whether
that obligation is shifted to you know

1649
02:50:33,680 --> 02:50:41,439
the lei um it depends on the structure
of the the lease agreement

1650
02:50:38,000 --> 02:50:46,319
» and then would it change what what it
falls into like a different because

1651
02:50:44,240 --> 02:50:52,000
there the data center is there now it's
not a land would it change the

1652
02:50:50,080 --> 02:50:53,520
» what would be right like the
>> classification

1653
02:50:53,040 --> 02:50:56,240
» right yes
>> I would yes I would think so

1654
02:50:55,279 --> 02:51:00,399
» okay thanks
>> yeah that it's it's I mean it's very

1655
02:50:58,399 --> 02:51:04,560
simple way it's kind of like in
apartment building, the apartment

1656
02:51:02,080 --> 02:51:09,279
building owner owes property taxes. I
mean, a person who leases the apartment,

1657
02:51:07,279 --> 02:51:12,160
it's paid in their rent, but if they
move out or don't pay the rent,

1658
02:51:10,880 --> 02:51:17,040
apartment building owner still has to
pay taxes. Kind of the same thing.

1659
02:51:14,800 --> 02:51:20,279
» All right, supervisor efforts, you have
the floor.

1660
02:51:20,399 --> 02:51:31,040
But then unless the um law is changed,
if if it's the trailers or the the

1661
02:51:28,240 --> 02:51:35,920
shipping containers that have the that's
the improvement on it, there wouldn't be

1662
02:51:33,439 --> 02:51:40,080
taxes paid on the improvements, just the
land. No. Um right now,

1663
02:51:38,960 --> 02:51:45,680
» if it's leased,
>> well, right now under act 12, if it is a

1664
02:51:44,160 --> 02:51:51,920
meets the definition of a building
improvement or fixture. So again, I I

1665
02:51:48,560 --> 02:51:57,359
like the airport hanger example. You
have a structure that is placed on a

1666
02:51:54,399 --> 02:52:05,359
footprint, but that footprint of land is
leased. That structure, i.e. the airport

1667
02:52:01,120 --> 02:52:11,439
hanger, is then taxed as real property.
>> Okay. So again, I you know, depending on

1668
02:52:08,560 --> 02:52:16,399
what the data center development looks
like, um I would anticipate that

1669
02:52:14,399 --> 02:52:20,080
whatever is built is going to certainly
meet the definition of a building

1670
02:52:18,479 --> 02:52:23,359
improvement
um or fixture. Okay.

1671
02:52:21,600 --> 02:52:26,960
» So it would fall within those parameters
of act 12.

1672
02:52:24,560 --> 02:52:30,640
» A question if I may interrupt for Mr.
Okonnell and and you Rebecca, let's

1673
02:52:29,040 --> 02:52:35,760
let's fair it out. This question I think
as keeps coming up. If we follow this

1674
02:52:33,760 --> 02:52:40,000
two-step process, the moratorum, and
then we refer it, would it not incumbent

1675
02:52:38,240 --> 02:52:43,359
be upon the subcommittee of this
assigned to to get somebody from the

1676
02:52:41,439 --> 02:52:48,479
department of revenue and say, tell us
what happens. Do we are we going to get

1677
02:52:45,920 --> 02:52:50,160
revenue if it's just lease hold or it's
movable? Tell us that.

1678
02:52:49,840 --> 02:52:53,200
» Absolutely.
>> And explain that to us because that

1679
02:52:51,680 --> 02:52:56,319
should come back to the county board
ultimately because they set the budget.

1680
02:52:55,040 --> 02:53:00,960
It's not a committee that sets the
budget. The county board sets correct

1681
02:52:58,560 --> 02:53:06,000
under 6590. It's the board sets the
budget. They should know that because

1682
02:53:02,880 --> 02:53:09,200
you could have 10 movable data centers
and you get zero. Why would a board vote

1683
02:53:08,640 --> 02:53:09,920
for that,
>> right?

1684
02:53:09,600 --> 02:53:13,439
» Okay.
>> No, absolutely. That's the kind of issue

1685
02:53:11,760 --> 02:53:17,279
that should be talked about during the
investigation period.

1686
02:53:14,880 --> 02:53:20,800
» I agree. If you move down that path,
then you definitely want to get a

1687
02:53:18,960 --> 02:53:24,160
definitive answer from the Department of
Revenue.

1688
02:53:21,760 --> 02:53:26,760
» And and I I think that's where just to
clarify and so the board knows, I think

1689
02:53:25,600 --> 02:53:28,720
that's where
>> [clears throat]

1690
02:53:26,880 --> 02:53:33,520
» uh our new land services director, Mr.
Nicole, myself could work together or if

1691
02:53:30,960 --> 02:53:37,920
we have a finance director Con are that
is that then not incumbent upon staff to

1692
02:53:35,680 --> 02:53:42,240
research and present back then the
committee makes recommendations and

1693
02:53:39,439 --> 02:53:48,960
decisions.
>> Yes. And I would if you're asking me.

1694
02:53:45,040 --> 02:53:52,479
» Yeah. Yes. Yes. And from where I would
also suggest that if you were in

1695
02:53:50,640 --> 02:53:55,920
conversations
um

1696
02:53:54,160 --> 02:54:01,520
it would your economic development
person let's say would be saying to

1697
02:53:58,880 --> 02:54:08,479
potential developers these are the kinds
of data centers we're interested in. not

1698
02:54:05,279 --> 02:54:14,080
the mobile type develop uh mo um data
center that does not provide benefit to

1699
02:54:11,200 --> 02:54:19,279
the local jurisdictions but a permanent
data center that provides long-term

1700
02:54:17,200 --> 02:54:22,399
» uh corporate good corporate citizen
benefits to the citizens of Baron Baron

1701
02:54:22,000 --> 02:54:25,279
County
>> and employment in that

1702
02:54:23,359 --> 02:54:28,000
» and employment that that would be want
to make that quite clear.

1703
02:54:26,720 --> 02:54:30,880
» All right, we're still on the red group.
So, Supervisor Cook, let me go to

1704
02:54:29,600 --> 02:54:37,760
Supervisor Gors and then I'll come back
to you. Supervisor Gors. Uh yeah. Um if

1705
02:54:34,240 --> 02:54:45,040
there um a moratorum is voted on or put
in place, is there a set time limit or

1706
02:54:41,200 --> 02:54:48,479
or do we sit make the time limit?
>> Right now in the draft there is a time

1707
02:54:47,200 --> 02:54:51,520
limit.
>> Okay.

1708
02:54:49,840 --> 02:54:56,399
» Yes, there are two. There's three
different spots. Supervisor Gors, I

1709
02:54:53,680 --> 02:55:01,120
modified the first one to be until 12:31
at 2027. That's feedback that I received

1710
02:54:58,800 --> 02:55:04,960
from board members saying I don't like 9
months. I don't think that's enough time

1711
02:55:02,560 --> 02:55:08,880
and some board members have said to me I
want a definite date when it ends. Now

1712
02:55:06,800 --> 02:55:12,880
it can be extended because is it 9
months from enactment? Is it 9 months

1713
02:55:10,560 --> 02:55:18,319
plus 10 days for publication? That's why
I inserted and so we could modify you

1714
02:55:15,359 --> 02:55:21,760
know we could whatever time the the
lawyers recommend I guess but that's why

1715
02:55:20,080 --> 02:55:27,200
I did that.
>> And I would say from a recommendation

1716
02:55:23,600 --> 02:55:33,040
standpoint um certainly be realistic um
but keep it as concise as possible i.e.

1717
02:55:30,720 --> 02:55:38,479
be as short as possible. But again,
you've got the work that you've already

1718
02:55:35,600 --> 02:55:42,080
identified today. Um, and the work that
staff has already identified as

1719
02:55:40,080 --> 02:55:47,680
potential issues, you know, as a road
map of the work that

1720
02:55:44,479 --> 02:55:54,880
would be done during your moratorum. So,
I think, you know, that the date that

1721
02:55:50,319 --> 02:56:01,279
um, Mr. French put out um, is is legally
defensible. Um, but again, be very

1722
02:55:57,760 --> 02:56:07,279
careful if you go longer. Um, because
then a court may construe that as simply

1723
02:56:03,760 --> 02:56:11,760
an attempt to a ban, a two-year ban
rather than, um, a true good faith

1724
02:56:09,359 --> 02:56:14,240
investigation of how to develop an
ordinance.

1725
02:56:12,880 --> 02:56:17,359
» Supervisor Cook, you had another
question.

1726
02:56:14,640 --> 02:56:20,560
» Um, well, again, uh, our temporary
moratorium, if we choose to go that

1727
02:56:18,640 --> 02:56:25,040
route, should only be given us the time
to actually put together a moratorum. If

1728
02:56:22,720 --> 02:56:28,800
that takes more than
>> an ordinance, excuse me, zoning

1729
02:56:26,800 --> 02:56:32,319
ordinance, then that we can have a
discussion about. But just to the point

1730
02:56:30,160 --> 02:56:39,760
of this purchase to put it to dead to
bed, uh, all six have are purchased by

1731
02:56:36,240 --> 02:56:45,359
the company Mount Pleasant. Um, the
village sold 350 acres, the initial 350

1732
02:56:42,399 --> 02:56:49,600
acres of Microsoft for $50 million. I
think that had an impact on their

1733
02:56:46,720 --> 02:56:54,880
property taxes in that village. uh and
they have subsequently purchased another

1734
02:56:51,359 --> 02:56:59,200
2,000 acres around that site. So, they
are going to pay property taxes. Um

1735
02:56:57,279 --> 02:57:02,960
unless you create some type of district
that allows them not to for a certain

1736
02:57:01,120 --> 02:57:08,000
period of time, they are in fact going
to purchase the land. Um these trailers,

1737
02:57:06,160 --> 02:57:13,680
um these little cargo containers, China
boxes if you will, um are not not quote

1738
02:57:11,920 --> 02:57:19,359
unquote the data centers we're talking
about. And and in fact, some moratoriums

1739
02:57:16,319 --> 02:57:24,560
actually um
if you exceed a certain size, the

1740
02:57:21,279 --> 02:57:28,800
moratorum applies. Um I think Madison's,
if I looked at it right, if it was under

1741
02:57:26,640 --> 02:57:32,960
20,000 square feet, then it was not
impacted, which is about the size of

1742
02:57:31,040 --> 02:57:36,160
Oaklair that they're talking about um
the data center in Oaklair.

1743
02:57:34,640 --> 02:57:38,960
» All right, we're going to go on. Go
ahead.

1744
02:57:36,319 --> 02:57:44,240
» Can I just speak to that? Um just
briefly the the restriction on a

1745
02:57:42,240 --> 02:57:50,160
development moratorum that's in chapter
66 again that doesn't apply to counties

1746
02:57:47,520 --> 02:57:57,279
and so the rules that a [clears throat]
city village town may adopt for a

1747
02:57:53,920 --> 02:58:03,920
development moratorum do not apply to
the county um to the extent that you are

1748
02:58:00,479 --> 02:58:08,399
not referenced in chapter 66. Um however
again you do have the authority in

1749
02:58:05,840 --> 02:58:15,200
chapter 59 and then there's very
specific parameters of how you may adopt

1750
02:58:12,240 --> 02:58:19,680
that moratorum and so those are built
into this draft that you have in front

1751
02:58:17,600 --> 02:58:24,160
of you. U but again it's a it's a
delicate balance between the statutory

1752
02:58:22,319 --> 02:58:27,840
authority statutory restrictions and
then the case law that accompanies those

1753
02:58:26,560 --> 02:58:31,120
statutes.
>> All right we're going to bump over to

1754
02:58:28,960 --> 02:58:35,840
the blue team. Any questions? All right,
Supervisor Wel,

1755
02:58:34,240 --> 02:58:43,680
» um, I'm going to go back to the leverage
issue. Uh, at what point you said that

1756
02:58:39,520 --> 02:58:48,160
you're looking at 2027 December until
2027?

1757
02:58:45,520 --> 02:58:51,680
um what is the shortest amount of time
that we would need to do that sort of

1758
02:58:50,000 --> 02:58:57,600
investigating that we need to do the
factf finding so that we can still have

1759
02:58:55,520 --> 02:59:02,800
advantage like you said before people
start just welcoming these things in and

1760
02:59:00,800 --> 02:59:06,160
then we're out
and maybe that question is for you Jeff

1761
02:59:04,800 --> 02:59:11,040
or Louie
>> that's a question for Ben how long would

1762
02:59:08,240 --> 02:59:16,800
we have to have a public notice even to
turn I mean how much time do you want

1763
02:59:13,920 --> 02:59:23,000
Would you please come to a mic to maybe
use Supervisor Cousix and mic and turn

1764
02:59:18,960 --> 02:59:23,000
that on please?

1765
02:59:24,394 --> 02:59:31,920
[clears throat]
>> So yeah on once the the wording on the

1766
02:59:28,720 --> 02:59:35,760
moratorum is is determined that it's
sufficient we would need it would be a

1767
02:59:34,319 --> 02:59:39,920
class two notification. We would need
the the two weeks we would need two

1768
02:59:37,520 --> 02:59:45,120
weeks of notice in in local papers to
let the constituents know and have the

1769
02:59:42,640 --> 02:59:51,279
public hearing. So,
as we sit right now, um, October

1770
02:59:49,680 --> 02:59:55,359
would be pushing it, but I think we
could we could get it done.

1771
02:59:53,359 --> 02:59:58,240
» I guess to clarify, I meant the
moratorum being shorter like six or nine

1772
02:59:57,760 --> 03:00:02,240
months.
>> Certainly, we could do it to do shorter.

1773
02:59:59,920 --> 03:00:05,680
We if he's willing to kind of drop some
of his other work. I mean, he's new in

1774
03:00:03,600 --> 03:00:08,880
his job and he's learning his job, you
know, and how fast can that committee I

1775
03:00:07,840 --> 03:00:13,600
mean, if that committee would want to
meet every week on a Tuesday and go chug

1776
03:00:11,040 --> 03:00:17,279
through it, hooray. And I can assure you
I have I have done my due diligence. I'm

1777
03:00:16,479 --> 03:00:22,319
» oh
>> for near every day I'm I'm I'm digging

1778
03:00:19,200 --> 03:00:27,840
through recent updates on on data
centers and where most uh communities

1779
03:00:25,359 --> 03:00:31,840
stand within the state. I've dug into
Pennsylvania. It's a hot topic issue in

1780
03:00:29,600 --> 03:00:37,279
P Pennsylvania as well. And I know we've
discussed West Virginia. Um they're

1781
03:00:35,359 --> 03:00:40,960
diving in head first. I mean they want
all the data center revenue they can

1782
03:00:39,120 --> 03:00:45,520
get. So it's a tight rope that we walk
here um in terms of restricting versus

1783
03:00:43,840 --> 03:00:48,800
protecting our constituents.
>> Right.

1784
03:00:46,319 --> 03:00:55,279
» If we do enact a moratorum that's good
through December 31st of 2027

1785
03:00:52,640 --> 03:01:01,200
and we come to an agreement before that
once we enact an ordinance against or

1786
03:00:58,319 --> 03:01:04,960
not against but regulating data centers
we can drop the moratorium.

1787
03:01:02,319 --> 03:01:10,479
» I see. Okay. Thank you. I can partially
uh answer that or maybe add some

1788
03:01:07,040 --> 03:01:16,399
information for you, Supervisor Wel. Um
on Friday, last week, uh the Wisconsin

1789
03:01:14,720 --> 03:01:24,399
Counties Association Board of Directors
did take up this issue and passed a um a

1790
03:01:21,840 --> 03:01:29,359
template ordinance
uh for consideration by counties, which

1791
03:01:26,319 --> 03:01:36,399
will be released tomorrow. So, that'll
be available within 24 hours. lots of

1792
03:01:33,680 --> 03:01:43,359
flexibility in that ordinance. This is
not a recommendation. It is a a template

1793
03:01:40,319 --> 03:01:47,600
for counties to start if they wanted to
move forward. They don't have to. They

1794
03:01:45,680 --> 03:01:54,720
may not want to. That's fine. But we had
so many requests from counties for a a

1795
03:01:50,960 --> 03:02:00,880
starting place. So we worked with all
sorts of parties on this issue and a

1796
03:01:56,960 --> 03:02:06,479
tollless law to put together a template
uh ordinance that that people like Ben

1797
03:02:04,479 --> 03:02:13,120
can start with and and committees could
start with as they move about this

1798
03:02:08,560 --> 03:02:19,680
process. That might be uh that's I guess
some kind of an answer to say um it may

1799
03:02:16,399 --> 03:02:23,279
not take as long as you might think uh
if you have a starting place so you

1800
03:02:21,840 --> 03:02:26,960
don't have to do a lot of work in
advance but maybe it's not really fill

1801
03:02:25,279 --> 03:02:32,160
in the blank but it's address certain
issues because there's many options to

1802
03:02:30,080 --> 03:02:37,600
to look at but that might be a place
that you could start.

1803
03:02:35,120 --> 03:02:42,399
If I can just follow up, when you when
it that that template is released, you

1804
03:02:40,720 --> 03:02:47,600
will see a whole lot of fill in the
blanks. Um, and that is that's

1805
03:02:45,439 --> 03:02:53,200
intentional because it is to be
customized by each county. Um, but

1806
03:02:50,880 --> 03:02:58,560
again, it as Mark said, it's it's
intended to be a starting point. Um, and

1807
03:02:56,160 --> 03:03:04,160
then certainly all of the unique topics
that we've talked about today, um, those

1808
03:03:01,600 --> 03:03:08,399
can be added to the template and you can
really customize it and make it your

1809
03:03:06,080 --> 03:03:13,680
own. Um, but it again, it's just
intended to give counties a jump start

1810
03:03:10,880 --> 03:03:17,920
and a a launching off point um, for all
of those particular considerations and

1811
03:03:16,080 --> 03:03:22,960
again those considerations that do
indeed fall within your authority.

1812
03:03:21,120 --> 03:03:27,279
» Supervisor Vaughn, you ask a question,
I'll you have the you have the floor.

1813
03:03:25,120 --> 03:03:33,200
Thank you. Uh so in the packet where
we're looking at the actual moratorum

1814
03:03:30,319 --> 03:03:36,240
um on page three it has two different
dates. It has the ninemonth and then it

1815
03:03:34,880 --> 03:03:41,359
has the one that we mentioned at the end
of 2027. So is that for two different

1816
03:03:39,200 --> 03:03:45,040
things? Are we just not sure on the time
frame?

1817
03:03:42,399 --> 03:03:48,080
» I did I want to I I did that as a
placeholder because of all the

1818
03:03:46,319 --> 03:03:52,399
information I was getting before talking
to Cherokei about having this meeting. I

1819
03:03:50,080 --> 03:03:56,160
had to I did that supervisor vaugh so
that I reminded myself if I got this

1820
03:03:54,479 --> 03:04:01,920
question why I put that in there and I
put it in there because I've been asked

1821
03:03:59,359 --> 03:04:07,200
is nine months too long? Is it too
short? And I've also had some people and

1822
03:04:04,640 --> 03:04:11,359
citizens and supervisors say I'd rather
have a definitive date when it ends.

1823
03:04:09,040 --> 03:04:14,560
That's that's it. That's why there's
three different in three different

1824
03:04:12,880 --> 03:04:18,160
spots. It's two different places. That's
why I did that.

1825
03:04:16,560 --> 03:04:22,000
You make it you can make a decision.
Absolutely.

1826
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:24,880
Faster is better with me, too. I just
didn't You know, Ben and I have been

1827
03:04:23,520 --> 03:04:31,960
talking about this and we're just trying
to get you to a a date here. All right,

1828
03:04:28,080 --> 03:04:31,960
blue team. Anything else?

1829
03:04:32,479 --> 03:04:39,760
Supervisor Wentz?
>> Yeah, I'll take a stab at wording this

1830
03:04:36,479 --> 03:04:43,359
so it makes sense. Um, is there a sense
of

1831
03:04:41,279 --> 03:04:50,880
um [clears throat] whether or not some
of the town or village moratoriums are

1832
03:04:48,000 --> 03:04:55,840
intended more to ban data center
development or to allow time as we've

1833
03:04:54,479 --> 03:05:01,439
been talking about here at the county
level to develop their own local

1834
03:04:58,800 --> 03:05:06,560
ordinances. I I mean I I really don't
have an idea of whether or not Lakeland

1835
03:05:03,520 --> 03:05:11,680
or Doyle or Dover or wherever
are trying to ban data centers outright

1836
03:05:09,120 --> 03:05:16,000
by imposing moratoriums
or if they're doing the same thing we

1837
03:05:13,920 --> 03:05:21,680
are or are expected to do.
>> It's it's both. It's both. I mean some

1838
03:05:18,960 --> 03:05:26,880
are intended to provide breathing space
and time and others

1839
03:05:24,960 --> 03:05:31,760
are trying to be clever and just say
moratorium but they what they really

1840
03:05:28,319 --> 03:05:36,319
mean is ban. That's I mean then and
there are developers that are going to

1841
03:05:34,160 --> 03:05:42,560
look at those and say we we never
intended to even talk with you anyway so

1842
03:05:39,439 --> 03:05:47,439
they'll just it doesn't matter. But uh
if they did intend to

1843
03:05:45,120 --> 03:05:51,680
uh there may be court issues uh because
you you you shouldn't be passing a

1844
03:05:49,600 --> 03:05:56,479
moratorum if your intention is to ban
it. That's not good public policy and

1845
03:05:54,319 --> 03:06:00,479
it's going to get you in trouble. So but
it the answer is both. And not just in

1846
03:05:58,399 --> 03:06:05,520
Wisconsin, by the way. It's all over the
country. There have been uh public

1847
03:06:02,560 --> 03:06:10,720
entities that have passed moratoria to
um to provide um time to think and

1848
03:06:08,640 --> 03:06:16,640
breathing space. And there have been
those all over the country that have

1849
03:06:12,399 --> 03:06:21,600
passed moratoriums to um just to ban it
and that will sometimes cause trouble,

1850
03:06:20,160 --> 03:06:24,560
get them in trouble.
>> Rebecca, anything to add to that?

1851
03:06:23,600 --> 03:06:30,160
» No.
>> Okay. Again, blue team, you're you're

1852
03:06:27,600 --> 03:06:33,640
up. Any questions from any other member
of the blue team?

1853
03:06:33,680 --> 03:06:37,960
Hearing none. White team questions

1854
03:06:39,840 --> 03:06:45,040
hearing none. Red team questions.
Supervisor Cook, I see you raising your

1855
03:06:44,319 --> 03:06:49,120
hand.
>> Oh, I hate to ask so many questions, but

1856
03:06:46,880 --> 03:06:54,640
in this moratorum or excuse me, in our
zoning ordinance, then we that is where

1857
03:06:52,560 --> 03:06:57,640
we would address things like water
consumption.

1858
03:06:59,520 --> 03:07:06,080
» Well, water.
>> No. Well, when I say water for let me

1859
03:07:03,760 --> 03:07:10,240
not water consumption the type of
cooling

1860
03:07:07,840 --> 03:07:15,520
um that would that we would like for
example a closed loop or air

1861
03:07:14,080 --> 03:07:21,680
can can
>> I would say just on a very high level

1862
03:07:19,600 --> 03:07:24,960
that is not something that would be
appropriately incorporated into your

1863
03:07:24,000 --> 03:07:28,080
zoning ordinance.
>> Okay. And those are the questions that I

1864
03:07:26,399 --> 03:07:30,800
would have as a member of the zoning
committee

1865
03:07:28,960 --> 03:07:33,520
» who I may not I may get thrown off
because

1866
03:07:32,319 --> 03:07:40,319
» um
>> I I supply electricity to your home. Uh

1867
03:07:38,925 --> 03:07:44,800
[laughter]
anyway, I I guess that's where I'm

1868
03:07:43,120 --> 03:07:50,000
coming from is just what are the what
things can we look at in terms of you

1869
03:07:47,520 --> 03:07:53,200
know obviously the impact on our roads
um those types of things who would who

1870
03:07:51,439 --> 03:07:56,720
would pay for that? Obviously the I
think the utility in terms of 100% of

1871
03:07:55,040 --> 03:08:00,080
the infrastructure cost that's already
going to be solved. That's not the but

1872
03:07:58,640 --> 03:08:04,479
that's the questions or the types of
questions I would hope that we would be

1873
03:08:01,279 --> 03:08:06,720
able to have a framework for the
ordinance that the zoning committee

1874
03:08:05,840 --> 03:08:12,399
would draft.
>> Yeah. And to think of it, um, you know,

1875
03:08:10,160 --> 03:08:19,439
I think as Mark alluded to, you know,
any other building, um, so if you had a,

1876
03:08:16,640 --> 03:08:25,200
um, a Walmart development come forward,
what is it in your zoning code that you

1877
03:08:22,000 --> 03:08:33,680
would be you would be applying? It would
be things the sighting factors, so size,

1878
03:08:28,880 --> 03:08:37,760
noise, traffic, um you know, other other
impacts that fall under the zoning

1879
03:08:35,920 --> 03:08:44,000
committee's authority. You'd be looking
at those same items to build into the

1880
03:08:40,640 --> 03:08:47,840
data center regulatory ordinance. Um
things like water consumption or the the

1881
03:08:46,319 --> 03:08:50,319
technology for
>> that they would use. Not necessarily how

1882
03:08:49,359 --> 03:08:55,279
much they would use, but
>> yeah, that is something you could ask

1883
03:08:52,319 --> 03:09:01,439
for in a local agreement. Um because
again a local agreement is a armslength

1884
03:08:58,000 --> 03:09:06,319
transaction. Um and the developer may
say yeah we're going to have a closed

1885
03:09:03,359 --> 03:09:12,080
loop and we're fine with that. The issue
becomes if they say no you can't

1886
03:09:09,600 --> 03:09:17,600
prohibit the project from moving forward
because again you don't have statutory

1887
03:09:13,920 --> 03:09:23,040
authority to regulate the type of water
system in the business.

1888
03:09:20,880 --> 03:09:29,120
But again, within the context of the
local agreement, you can ask for that.

1889
03:09:27,200 --> 03:09:34,960
You can ask for things that you may not
have statutory authority to ask for

1890
03:09:32,880 --> 03:09:38,399
in a local agreement, which again is the
beauty of those local agreements.

1891
03:09:37,040 --> 03:09:43,040
» I guess if I was going to put it in
plain English, um when you have

1892
03:09:41,439 --> 03:09:48,080
authority to if it's something the
county has authority over, okay, you can

1893
03:09:45,760 --> 03:09:52,960
put that in an ordinance, right? But if
it's if you're going to tell a a

1894
03:09:49,840 --> 03:09:58,160
business or an individual how they're
going to run their business or run their

1895
03:09:55,600 --> 03:10:00,479
life, you probably can't put that in an
ordinance. I mean, you can't tell

1896
03:09:59,520 --> 03:10:04,319
somebody where they're going to put
their cash registers or that they can

1897
03:10:02,640 --> 03:10:07,439
only use credit cards and not cash.
That's how they run their business. You

1898
03:10:05,680 --> 03:10:10,319
can't tell them that. You can't tell
people when they're going to wake up in

1899
03:10:09,040 --> 03:10:13,120
the morning or that they can't use alarm
clocks. I mean, that's how they run

1900
03:10:11,520 --> 03:10:17,359
their life. You can't tell them that.
So, but if you if the the county has

1901
03:10:14,960 --> 03:10:20,479
authority over it, fine. Then you can
put in an ordinance. But if it's

1902
03:10:19,120 --> 03:10:25,920
something about how they run their
operation,

1903
03:10:22,319 --> 03:10:32,479
that's outside of our ability.
>> Okay. Supervisor efforts.

1904
03:10:29,600 --> 03:10:38,880
So going off the water issue, if we
can't regulate the technology that they

1905
03:10:35,120 --> 03:10:43,760
use, so if there's waste water, we have
authority on how they get rid of it or

1906
03:10:42,319 --> 03:10:49,359
what they do with it. Is that part of
the environmental study or

1907
03:10:46,800 --> 03:10:54,960
um the assessment? Where does that come
in? So there's not like hot water being

1908
03:10:53,439 --> 03:10:59,680
put wherever they want.
>> Yeah, that's a that's a good question.

1909
03:10:56,399 --> 03:11:05,920
And that comes up um when there's a
non-closed loop or not not a um uh dry

1910
03:11:04,479 --> 03:11:12,399
cooling method
>> when it's a uh evaporative method um the

1911
03:11:10,720 --> 03:11:17,120
municipal water supply or water
treatment uh comes into play and the

1912
03:11:15,279 --> 03:11:20,800
question there is does can the municipal
water treatment facility handle the

1913
03:11:19,600 --> 03:11:25,200
volume of water
>> or if it's in a I'm sorry if it's in a

1914
03:11:23,040 --> 03:11:29,680
township I mean we have wells we have
septic you know we have that sort of

1915
03:11:27,760 --> 03:11:32,080
thing. We don't have water treatment. We
have you know

1916
03:11:31,760 --> 03:11:35,439
» Yeah.
>> So

1917
03:11:33,279 --> 03:11:41,680
» the question again will be can it can it
be handled and if it that that is

1918
03:11:38,479 --> 03:11:46,800
definitely a question. Uh and so if it's
going to be in a non-municipal water

1919
03:11:43,760 --> 03:11:51,680
treatment operation then there's going
to have to be some sort of water

1920
03:11:48,160 --> 03:11:56,000
treatment probably on site that is
solely created for that data center

1921
03:11:54,720 --> 03:12:02,080
operation.
Um if it's if it's if it's going to be

1922
03:11:59,520 --> 03:12:08,160
um adjacent to a municipal
um governmental geographic boundary then

1923
03:12:05,760 --> 03:12:12,880
there may be um infrastructure that
needs to be built to connect it to the

1924
03:12:10,240 --> 03:12:16,399
water municipal waters um treatment
facility and then the question would be

1925
03:12:14,720 --> 03:12:21,359
can the municipal water facility handle
it and that has to be worked out in

1926
03:12:18,960 --> 03:12:26,880
advance. It's not simply you can't just
build the structure and then say uh

1927
03:12:24,399 --> 03:12:29,680
municipality you have to handle it. I
don't care if you have enough capacity

1928
03:12:28,160 --> 03:12:35,439
or not you have to handle it. That's not
how it works. Uh there there has to be

1929
03:12:32,319 --> 03:12:40,240
an agreement that it can be handled. So
um that is not one of those where you

1930
03:12:38,640 --> 03:12:44,560
know too bad for the municipality they
have to take care of. No, it has to be

1931
03:12:42,160 --> 03:12:48,560
that has to be addressed in advance. If
it's uh outside of a municipal water

1932
03:12:47,040 --> 03:12:52,000
treatment facility, there's going to
have to be a treatment facility on site.

1933
03:12:50,479 --> 03:12:57,040
Or if it's a dry cooling, that's an
entirely different operation.

1934
03:12:55,520 --> 03:13:00,720
Supervisor Patty Anderson, you have the
floor.

1935
03:12:58,560 --> 03:13:04,319
» Do you have a question? Okay, we're done
with the red. We're we're back to blue.

1936
03:13:02,640 --> 03:13:10,240
Blue team, you got a question.
Supervisor Turkot,

1937
03:13:07,279 --> 03:13:16,720
» is there at some point where the DNR is
going to have someness if it's in a

1938
03:13:12,399 --> 03:13:23,439
township for storm water retention?
I I would think with water discharging

1939
03:13:19,680 --> 03:13:29,439
if it was the evaporation. So, I mean,
they're going to have a say in it when

1940
03:13:26,880 --> 03:13:32,640
all is said and done.
>> Yes. Yeah. DNR is going to have

1941
03:13:30,960 --> 03:13:35,680
something to say about it. Sure. Yeah.
There'll be likely some water permits of

1942
03:13:34,479 --> 03:13:42,160
some sort. Yes.
>> Yep. Supervisor Oki, you have the floor.

1943
03:13:38,160 --> 03:13:47,200
In the templates that WCA developed for
us to use and modify the local

1944
03:13:44,960 --> 03:13:52,560
agreement, is that similar to the JDA
like we have in the solar farms. So

1945
03:13:49,920 --> 03:13:58,479
that's where we could put in uh the type
of water cooling system we want. And if

1946
03:13:55,520 --> 03:14:04,319
it didn't happen, we could get say no at
that point in time.

1947
03:14:00,560 --> 03:14:10,239
» Um yes. So, the the local agreement
template um that was approved by the WCA

1948
03:14:07,840 --> 03:14:16,239
board is exactly that. It's a template.
I will say it is based on Baron County's

1949
03:14:13,600 --> 03:14:21,359
Maple Grove Solar. So, I always give
kudos to Baron County whenever I can

1950
03:14:18,160 --> 03:14:29,840
because that was a um
that really became a a model project um

1951
03:14:25,040 --> 03:14:35,840
for negotiation of of agreements. Um so
uh it was specifically intended to apply

1952
03:14:32,560 --> 03:14:42,239
to renewable energy pro projects.
However, it can certainly be used um for

1953
03:14:40,000 --> 03:14:50,080
a data center or even another large
scale um because it addresses impacts of

1954
03:14:46,080 --> 03:14:57,120
a a larger scale project um but of
course needs to be um customized uh for

1955
03:14:54,160 --> 03:15:00,239
whatever the project issue is. Okay.
Thanks.

1956
03:14:58,399 --> 03:15:06,000
» All right, blue team. Any more
questions?

1957
03:15:02,319 --> 03:15:09,920
White team questions? Supervisor Klick.
>> So,

1958
03:15:08,080 --> 03:15:16,640
I guess I have two questions. You you
decide if you allow me to ask both of

1959
03:15:11,680 --> 03:15:21,760
them. If um a site is proposed by
someone and it gets annexed into a

1960
03:15:19,439 --> 03:15:27,040
municipality,
county ordinances would go away.

1961
03:15:24,640 --> 03:15:31,920
Correct.
on that project

1962
03:15:28,960 --> 03:15:35,840
» to the extent that the county doesn't
have inherent jurisdiction. So for

1963
03:15:33,680 --> 03:15:39,279
example, Shorland County always has
Shorland jurisdiction. So Shorland

1964
03:15:37,520 --> 03:15:43,680
ordinances would still apply.
>> But if it was annexed into a city,

1965
03:15:42,319 --> 03:15:48,239
» then zoning would not
>> there's no zoning. A zoning ordinance

1966
03:15:45,760 --> 03:15:54,560
that tries to limit
>> a data center might become null and void

1967
03:15:51,760 --> 03:15:59,920
» because it's now in a municipality.
>> Correct. Okay. The other thought I have

1968
03:15:56,960 --> 03:16:06,399
is is that as we have all different
opinions as 29 people and we all might

1969
03:16:03,680 --> 03:16:10,720
want more things into a JDA or a joint
developers agreement or an NDA or

1970
03:16:08,160 --> 03:16:16,960
whatever you want to call it.
Is the county in a spot where we can

1971
03:16:13,279 --> 03:16:22,880
have a recommended things that we would
like to see in one of those because we

1972
03:16:19,840 --> 03:16:28,960
may not be the ones negotiating the JDA.
it very well could be the municipality.

1973
03:16:26,239 --> 03:16:33,520
So, I mean, instead of trying to tie it
all into an ordinance that really isn't

1974
03:16:30,720 --> 03:16:38,800
legally allowable,
we can't really develop a a checklist

1975
03:16:36,720 --> 03:16:42,319
that says, "No, any JDA has to have
this, has to have this, has to have

1976
03:16:40,239 --> 03:16:47,439
this," because we might walk away from a
negotiation or get eliminated from a

1977
03:16:44,960 --> 03:16:53,200
negotiation. But, can we have a a
suggested list from a county board?

1978
03:16:51,279 --> 03:16:56,080
Yes, you could use the template that
they've developed that's going to be

1979
03:16:54,319 --> 03:16:59,439
released in the next 24 hours. That
could be your that could be your

1980
03:16:57,120 --> 03:17:05,120
checklist. I also got to say, Supervisor
Cusk, um I would the

1981
03:17:03,520 --> 03:17:09,279
city administrators I worked with,
they'd be very excited for us to do some

1982
03:17:07,520 --> 03:17:12,720
of the leg work for them and have a
model template ordinance for them

1983
03:17:10,800 --> 03:17:17,120
because they're not going to have the
they're not going to want to uh take all

1984
03:17:15,439 --> 03:17:20,640
the heat. You know, if we have something
that they can use, they'd probably be a

1985
03:17:18,800 --> 03:17:24,800
lot more appreciative. And I believe we
can sometimes oppose annexation or write

1986
03:17:22,720 --> 03:17:27,439
a letter against annexation, can't we? I
mean, if there's a specific purpose, if

1987
03:17:26,319 --> 03:17:31,760
they're doing it to thwart our
ordinance, we should probably write a

1988
03:17:29,439 --> 03:17:35,920
letter against the annexation.
>> There is an opportunity for you to

1989
03:17:34,239 --> 03:17:39,920
object or be involved in that.
>> And if they put it in the tiff or tid,

1990
03:17:37,279 --> 03:17:47,760
we can vote against the tiff. And
>> so there are some there are some ways to

1991
03:17:42,080 --> 03:17:55,760
at least try. So m in the end is this is
the sighting of a facility of this sort

1992
03:17:51,760 --> 03:18:01,439
um a county issue a city village or town
issue? It's more of a city village or

1993
03:17:58,479 --> 03:18:06,880
town issue than it is a county issue.
That that is that is just the fact of

1994
03:18:03,920 --> 03:18:13,040
the matter. But it would it behooves um
a developer to try to have a good

1995
03:18:10,800 --> 03:18:19,439
relationship with all governing
jurisdictions

1996
03:18:15,200 --> 03:18:25,680
um regardless of who's officially or
formally in charge. So um

1997
03:18:23,920 --> 03:18:31,680
there might be an annexation. That's
true. Uh this the city might be the

1998
03:18:29,600 --> 03:18:37,920
might be the lead on a on a particular
project. That may be true too. Um but a

1999
03:18:35,120 --> 03:18:42,319
developer a smart developer will want to
have buyin from all the governing

2000
03:18:40,640 --> 03:18:48,000
jurisdictions
uh to have peace and harmony to the

2001
03:18:45,279 --> 03:18:53,520
extent possible with not only the
governing jurisdictions but with the

2002
03:18:49,680 --> 03:18:59,040
citizenry of the area and how they will
how will they get that joint development

2003
03:18:55,840 --> 03:19:03,760
agreement uh full explanation full
disclosure

2004
03:19:00,640 --> 03:19:10,640
um transparency that's how they will get
So the the wise developers know that and

2005
03:19:08,319 --> 03:19:18,080
I we're finding that out more and more
for with uh placements of data centers

2006
03:19:15,680 --> 03:19:20,399
that have been successful. So I I would
say you will definitely have a seat at

2007
03:19:19,600 --> 03:19:23,520
the table.
>> May I chime in? Rebecca, do you do you

2008
03:19:22,319 --> 03:19:27,120
want to respond? I just thought
something else. Supervisor Gick asked a

2009
03:19:25,439 --> 03:19:32,479
very good question. I would say to
supervisor Guslick that if what you

2010
03:19:29,680 --> 03:19:35,600
hypothesize or hypothetically we'd have
we'd have control over the emergency

2011
03:19:34,000 --> 03:19:39,760
response plan because we're going to be
the so that would have to go through the

2012
03:19:37,600 --> 03:19:43,200
LEAPC. So we'd have some control there
and that's where we'd want to go back to

2013
03:19:41,520 --> 03:19:47,760
Mr. Okonnell's comments that we'd want
buyin. We want that we want that

2014
03:19:45,120 --> 03:19:50,319
developer to be a partner and if you
know and then if they're going to do

2015
03:19:48,800 --> 03:19:54,880
mobile battery storage or they're going
to do something like that our our

2016
03:19:52,319 --> 03:19:58,080
training for the local fire departments
then comes into place. So, yes, we may

2017
03:19:56,560 --> 03:20:02,640
not get it on zoning, but we might get
it on ERP, which again goes back to

2018
03:20:01,040 --> 03:20:06,239
charge on this road. I'd love to see us
have an ERP ordinance, too, someday

2019
03:20:04,560 --> 03:20:10,319
because that gives us a little more
teeth. It's all these things building on

2020
03:20:08,160 --> 03:20:15,200
one another. Well, I I I don't want to
open up another hour of conversation,

2021
03:20:12,160 --> 03:20:20,560
but on battery energy storage systems,
we are in a we are in a conversation

2022
03:20:18,160 --> 03:20:24,720
with the public service commission where
uh there is a I'm not sure if it's if

2023
03:20:23,439 --> 03:20:32,640
you'd actually call it a difference of
opinion, but if battery en energy

2024
03:20:27,600 --> 03:20:38,640
storage systems are on the same uh
geographic footprint as a as a energy

2025
03:20:36,640 --> 03:20:42,399
generation
facility then clearly it's under the

2026
03:20:41,359 --> 03:20:48,720
public service commission's
jurisdiction. But if it is separate from

2027
03:20:45,120 --> 03:20:54,000
that then uh it is our opinion in the
opinion of to atlasist law that that is

2028
03:20:51,760 --> 03:20:59,920
not under the jurisdiction of the public
service commission that falls under uh

2029
03:20:56,960 --> 03:21:05,760
local government zoning and we have a a
case in Kenosha County where we are in

2030
03:21:02,080 --> 03:21:11,120
conversation to sort to clarify this. So
that is uh a separate issue and to Mr.

2031
03:21:08,640 --> 03:21:15,359
French's point we care an awful lot
about that. Uh now legislature may

2032
03:21:13,520 --> 03:21:19,120
change that in the future and and public
service commission want might want

2033
03:21:17,120 --> 03:21:24,960
jurisdiction but until the law is
changed uh to us it's quite clear uh

2034
03:21:23,359 --> 03:21:27,600
that is not the jurisdiction of public
service commission but rather the

2035
03:21:26,239 --> 03:21:34,479
jurisdiction of local governmental
entities. Uh and so we care about that

2036
03:21:31,040 --> 03:21:38,960
element of of energy and battery storage
systems until such time as as something

2037
03:21:37,359 --> 03:21:43,120
changes.
Very good. Other questions from white

2038
03:21:40,479 --> 03:21:49,920
team members,
red team,

2039
03:21:45,920 --> 03:21:55,840
I hear none. Blue team questions.
Back to white. Back to red. Okay. Any

2040
03:21:53,439 --> 03:22:01,040
just want to make sure now any further
questions before we then get into the

2041
03:21:58,960 --> 03:22:05,520
next kind of item of business here and
that's a rise and report which I'm going

2042
03:22:03,279 --> 03:22:08,880
to if there's nothing so I will go back
then to Robert's rules of order. So

2043
03:22:07,359 --> 03:22:15,120
exiting and reporting back to the
assembly. This is where the

2044
03:22:12,560 --> 03:22:19,920
and it's in our it's in our agenda.
We've asked uh we're on 6E now. We've

2045
03:22:17,920 --> 03:22:24,479
finished with 6D questions from board
members. a motion to rise and report.

2046
03:22:21,840 --> 03:22:29,040
And this is a possible action item
because when we exit the committee of

2047
03:22:27,359 --> 03:22:33,600
the whole,
the committee of the whole should report

2048
03:22:31,520 --> 03:22:39,279
back to the assembly, which is the
county board, what you've discussed or

2049
03:22:36,880 --> 03:22:45,439
more importantly, what's the action that
you would like to take.

2050
03:22:42,080 --> 03:22:49,279
I am not I'm going to throw out one of
the there's many that could happen but

2051
03:22:47,279 --> 03:22:54,399
here is one of the rise in reports that
could be stated could state that the

2052
03:22:52,640 --> 03:22:57,920
Baron County Board of Supervisors
meeting as a committee of the whole

2053
03:22:55,920 --> 03:23:02,800
recommends the moratorum ordinance on
data centers be placed upon the agenda

2054
03:23:00,000 --> 03:23:06,800
for consideration at the October 19th
5:00 p.m. county board meeting. That

2055
03:23:04,880 --> 03:23:10,720
would then put the moratorum in front of
the assembly which is the county board

2056
03:23:08,960 --> 03:23:15,200
to vote up and down. It would allow
people to go to the meeting on the 29th

2057
03:23:13,120 --> 03:23:19,279
and learn more. And also what's been
brought up and I'm going to reach out to

2058
03:23:17,120 --> 03:23:23,760
the local electric co-op because there's
a very good question. This opened the

2059
03:23:20,880 --> 03:23:29,439
door. Where's the power supply? I mean,
if the power supply if the if the power

2060
03:23:26,479 --> 03:23:32,960
supply is here and we're it's here and
we're gener this is the maximum and

2061
03:23:31,439 --> 03:23:37,520
we're using here, we don't have any
room. Explain to us from the local co-op

2062
03:23:35,359 --> 03:23:41,040
standpoint representing most of Baron
County what that could mean. So that

2063
03:23:39,760 --> 03:23:44,160
could be should be a question that
really in my opinion as county

2064
03:23:42,319 --> 03:23:49,279
administrator should be answered on the
19th. So that's where we're at. Took a

2065
03:23:47,359 --> 03:23:55,680
little took a little detour there. So
then once there's a rise and report we

2066
03:23:51,680 --> 03:24:00,960
end uh then there is we reconvene. Mr.
Koki takes the chair. I somebody would

2067
03:23:58,319 --> 03:24:05,359
read to him what the rise and report is
and then there'd be a motion to adopt

2068
03:24:03,120 --> 03:24:11,359
that and then we adjourn. So, what's the
will of the the county board or the will

2069
03:24:07,760 --> 03:24:15,200
of the of the committee the whole?
No, it's got to be a formal motion and

2070
03:24:13,680 --> 03:24:18,479
it can be something else and it can be
amended.

2071
03:24:16,960 --> 03:24:23,120
Well, I think Jeff, what you what you
read there in terms of coming out of um

2072
03:24:22,319 --> 03:24:29,200
» committee the whole
>> committee as a whole uh and recommending

2073
03:24:26,000 --> 03:24:35,600
that this be put on the agenda
um to be voted on up or down um gives us

2074
03:24:32,720 --> 03:24:39,760
not only o until October, it gives us
September

2075
03:24:37,120 --> 03:24:47,760
um to also have some discussion among
the board. Um, and it gives our I think

2076
03:24:44,880 --> 03:24:53,120
it gives our zoning administrator uh a
little time to get some footed footing

2077
03:24:49,760 --> 03:25:01,120
under him uh and his staff to to give us
an idea about how long uh it would take

2078
03:24:58,000 --> 03:25:05,120
um to put a zoning ordinance together uh
if in fact it looks like that's the

2079
03:25:03,120 --> 03:25:09,760
direction we're going to go. right now.
I mean, he has, in my opinion, he he has

2080
03:25:07,840 --> 03:25:15,200
to do due diligence because he doesn't
know as if we were. I'm not saying we

2081
03:25:12,800 --> 03:25:21,439
are, but anyway. So, I would make that
motion that [clears throat] you read as

2082
03:25:18,160 --> 03:25:24,800
one of our options, the first one. Uh, I
would make that motion.

2083
03:25:22,399 --> 03:25:28,800
» So, I will Supervisor Cook makes the
motion and I will read the whole thing.

2084
03:25:26,720 --> 03:25:33,359
I would read what I would do, Supervisor
Cook, is I would read this sentence to

2085
03:25:30,720 --> 03:25:38,640
Cherokei. Cherokei, the committee of the
whole has completed its work and reports

2086
03:25:35,680 --> 03:25:43,120
the following period. The Baron County
Board of Supervisors meeting as a

2087
03:25:40,640 --> 03:25:47,439
committee of the whole recommends the
moratorum ordinance on data centers be

2088
03:25:45,439 --> 03:25:52,319
placed upon the agenda for consideration
at the October 19th 5:00 p.m. county

2089
03:25:49,840 --> 03:25:54,640
board meeting. Is that your motion?
>> Yes,

2090
03:25:52,800 --> 03:26:00,640
» there's a motion by Supervisor Cook. Is
there a second? Super. There's a second

2091
03:25:57,040 --> 03:26:06,120
by Supervisor Patty Anderson. discussion
before we close out our committee of the

2092
03:26:03,120 --> 03:26:06,120
whole.

2093
03:26:07,439 --> 03:26:13,080
I hear no discussion. I hear no
amendments.

2094
03:26:14,000 --> 03:26:22,239
All those in favor of the motion
proposed by Supervisor Cook, second by

2095
03:26:19,520 --> 03:26:25,680
Supervisor Anderson, signify by saying
I. I.

2096
03:26:24,000 --> 03:26:31,040
» Oppose. Same sign.
>> Yeah. Sorry.

2097
03:26:28,560 --> 03:26:31,040
» Okay.

2098
03:26:36,479 --> 03:26:48,479
One, two, three, four, five. Yes. So,
it' be 24 yes. I will state that it's 24

2099
03:26:45,920 --> 03:26:55,520
yes and no and none opposed. Is that
good for your record? Yes. Okay. So,

2100
03:26:52,479 --> 03:26:58,880
second. I would entertain a motion from
one of the board supervisor to come out

2101
03:26:57,120 --> 03:27:02,640
of committee the whole and return to the
assembly as a county board. Supervisor

2102
03:27:00,560 --> 03:27:05,600
Fowler, supervisor Heler makes the
motion. All those in favor signify by

2103
03:27:04,720 --> 03:27:08,720
saying I.
>> I.

2104
03:27:06,479 --> 03:27:11,279
» We are now back as a county board. Chair
Oki, you're in charge.

2105
03:27:10,000 --> 03:27:14,160
» Just make one.
>> Yes, Mr. Okonnell. Hold it. Mr. Okonnell

2106
03:27:12,960 --> 03:27:17,200
has asked to speak. Could I just make
one comment, Mr. Chairman?

2107
03:27:16,560 --> 03:27:20,560
» Mr. Chairman.
>> Sure.

2108
03:27:17,680 --> 03:27:25,680
» Okay. Uh just a I probably should have
made this in the committee of the whole

2109
03:27:22,239 --> 03:27:32,000
I've been uh your staff person for a
long time. Um but I just wanted to

2110
03:27:28,319 --> 03:27:39,040
comment that we've been here um just a
few hours talking about this issue. It

2111
03:27:34,800 --> 03:27:42,640
has been incredibly respectful,
rational,

2112
03:27:40,640 --> 03:27:50,080
insightful,
uh, and it's um, it it really is

2113
03:27:47,279 --> 03:27:57,200
exactly how county boards should
operate. And I am just in awe and admire

2114
03:27:54,640 --> 03:28:04,399
how you conduct yourselves in Baron
County. that is you're a model for how

2115
03:28:01,279 --> 03:28:11,200
debate on issues ought to occur and it
makes me so proud to work for you. Uh

2116
03:28:07,920 --> 03:28:16,239
just my compliments. It's you you you
hash things out. The questions are so

2117
03:28:13,760 --> 03:28:21,840
thoughtful. It's rational uh
conversation and you are so respectful

2118
03:28:18,640 --> 03:28:27,840
of each other and it's uh chairman Mr.
Chairman Oki and Mr. French uh just so

2119
03:28:25,040 --> 03:28:33,399
incredibly well done. you just uh I'm
just u so so proud to work for you.

2120
03:28:30,239 --> 03:28:33,399
Thank you.

2121
03:28:35,359 --> 03:28:41,600
» It's partially your fault. It's the way
you conducted this meeting, both the

2122
03:28:39,279 --> 03:28:45,359
presentations. You led us down the path
the right way. You gave us the right

2123
03:28:43,040 --> 03:28:52,560
information. So, we thank you for that.
And it is a great board. So,

2124
03:28:50,080 --> 03:28:56,239
Supervisor Olsson and just really I
guess a point of order. Um there's

2125
03:28:54,560 --> 03:29:01,120
discussion of whether this is going to
the zoning committee or an ad hoc

2126
03:28:58,720 --> 03:29:07,200
committee. Uh has that question been
resolved? And if it's ad hoc, how do we

2127
03:29:04,160 --> 03:29:10,239
do that in terms of deciding to do that?
That's just a question.

2128
03:29:08,479 --> 03:29:15,040
» John, couldn't we couldn't we decide
that on the 19th? Couldn't we have to

2129
03:29:13,120 --> 03:29:21,200
get those details? A little more time
for the board to noodle on this. You're

2130
03:29:17,279 --> 03:29:25,359
going to be you're going to be um when
it goes to the full when we reconvene as

2131
03:29:23,279 --> 03:29:29,040
full county board there's going to be a
motion there's going to be the report

2132
03:29:27,760 --> 03:29:33,200
from the committee of the whole then
there's going to be a motion to adopt

2133
03:29:31,040 --> 03:29:36,399
that and make that recommendation by the
board to the zoning committee or the ad

2134
03:29:35,200 --> 03:29:39,279
hoc committee. I think that's the time
to do it so we know what you're going to

2135
03:29:37,600 --> 03:29:43,279
do before you leave here today. Good
>> point.

2136
03:29:41,760 --> 03:29:45,680
» So we're going to do that on October
19th is what you're saying. No, we're do

2137
03:29:44,640 --> 03:29:50,720
it today. Oh,
>> you're going to be taking the chair back

2138
03:29:47,439 --> 03:29:55,359
as in and reconvening the county board.
>> An action taken on what the committee of

2139
03:29:53,920 --> 03:29:57,200
the whole reported to you,
>> right?

2140
03:29:55,840 --> 03:30:00,399
» So, you're doing again what you just
did, but um you just did it as committee

2141
03:29:59,520 --> 03:30:03,200
of the whole. Now, you're going to do it
as county board. That's the way your

2142
03:30:02,000 --> 03:30:05,840
agenda is set up anyways.
>> Right.

2143
03:30:10,560 --> 03:30:16,399
So Lou, what I need to do is I need to
read this statement again to you because

2144
03:30:14,880 --> 03:30:18,080
you're now we're now back as the county
board and you're the chair.

2145
03:30:17,600 --> 03:30:22,880
» Okay.
>> So chair Oki, the committee of the whole

2146
03:30:20,960 --> 03:30:27,120
has completed its work and reports the
following. Baron County Board of

2147
03:30:25,279 --> 03:30:30,960
Supervisors meeting as a committee the
whole recommends the moratorum ordinance

2148
03:30:29,200 --> 03:30:35,920
on data centers be placed upon the
agenda for consideration at the October

2149
03:30:33,680 --> 03:30:40,080
19th 5:00 pm county board meeting. That
is their motion to rise and report. I

2150
03:30:38,319 --> 03:30:44,880
will tell you then sir that in my
opinion you are now on to item 7B.

2151
03:30:42,720 --> 03:30:48,239
Motion to adopt modify or reject the
recommendation from the committee.

2152
03:30:46,479 --> 03:30:52,640
» So Lou you're correct. So what'll happen
now is is the board's going to vote to

2153
03:30:50,080 --> 03:30:57,040
put it on the agenda for the 19th. So
sometime between now and the 19th,

2154
03:30:55,200 --> 03:31:02,479
you're going to decide, the county board
is going to decide where to refer that

2155
03:30:59,760 --> 03:31:07,279
to, who's going to take it up uh once
the moratorium's in place, who's going

2156
03:31:04,000 --> 03:31:10,319
to take up the and you know, typically
it would go to the zoning committee

2157
03:31:08,960 --> 03:31:13,760
because that's the committee of
jurisdiction because it's going to be a

2158
03:31:11,680 --> 03:31:17,760
zoning ordinance. That's the normal way,
but that that would be decided by the

2159
03:31:16,080 --> 03:31:21,359
board as a whole. You can do it today or
you can do it on the 19th. probably do

2160
03:31:19,520 --> 03:31:24,560
it on the 19th because you don't know
whether you're going to have a moratorum

2161
03:31:22,479 --> 03:31:27,200
or not until that. Right.
>> That's just it's just what I was

2162
03:31:26,000 --> 03:31:31,040
thinking because we don't know if we're
going to have that moratorum and also

2163
03:31:29,279 --> 03:31:34,960
gives us more time to think about it. I
mean I made those comments about

2164
03:31:32,960 --> 03:31:39,520
Supervisor Cook but you know he does
know a lot about this stuff and uh you

2165
03:31:37,680 --> 03:31:44,800
know I I just trying to keep you out of
trouble. [laughter]

2166
03:31:40,960 --> 03:31:47,680
» I I appreciate that. So, uh,
>> and I would say too, I think this is

2167
03:31:46,239 --> 03:31:52,479
something that we could put on the exec
agenda to have a discussion by that

2168
03:31:50,000 --> 03:31:55,439
body. Uh, with regard, I mean, Audrey
sits on that committee. She is our

2169
03:31:53,680 --> 03:31:57,520
zoning chair. Uh, we can have a
discussion about what that should look

2170
03:31:57,120 --> 03:32:01,600
like
>> and that's on September 9th. We moved to

2171
03:31:59,359 --> 03:32:05,520
back week, just remember. Okay.
>> So, I that would be my recommendation to

2172
03:32:03,520 --> 03:32:08,080
just have at least a discussion on what
it should look like.

2173
03:32:07,040 --> 03:32:10,080
» That all right with you, Jeff?
>> Yes. I'll put it on there. I'm writing

2174
03:32:09,359 --> 03:32:16,080
it down now.
>> Okay. Okay. So we have the motion that

2175
03:32:12,800 --> 03:32:19,120
Jeff uh has said about three different
times. So now we need somebody to make

2176
03:32:18,560 --> 03:32:24,800
that motion.
>> Motion to the appropriate motion it

2177
03:32:22,000 --> 03:32:28,880
would be you adopt it, you modify it. If
you modify it, it takes a motion. What

2178
03:32:26,640 --> 03:32:33,120
what specific modification is that takes
a motion, a second, and then approval.

2179
03:32:30,960 --> 03:32:36,560
Then you go back to approve the main
motion or you reject it outright. So

2180
03:32:35,600 --> 03:32:39,279
somebody needs to
>> somebody can just make a motion to

2181
03:32:38,000 --> 03:32:45,439
adopt.
>> That's correct. Motion by Supervisor

2182
03:32:41,840 --> 03:32:51,200
Bartlett, second by Supervisor Turkot.
Is there any further discussion on that?

2183
03:32:48,640 --> 03:32:55,840
Not. All those in favor of of adopting
the committee of the whole report as

2184
03:32:53,200 --> 03:33:01,040
Jeff has said several times indicate by
saying I.

2185
03:32:56,960 --> 03:33:02,880
» I. Post say no. The motion's carried.
Thanks everybody.

2186
03:33:01,920 --> 03:33:09,520
» Now we
>> now by there's no further

2187
03:33:06,160 --> 03:33:13,319
guess against it. By unanimous consent,
we'll adjourn at 4:15.