[19:06] supervisors for Monday, August 31, 2026
into order and have a roll call the old
[19:13] way.
>> Right.
[19:16] » Well, I am aware that Bob Anderson
mentioned he is not able to come and I
[19:20] see Jamie McCriedy is not here. Am I
missing anyone else?
[19:25] » Okay, so we've got 27 of the 29 present.
>> Correct. And I don't believe anyone is
[19:30] online, Lance.
Lance,
[19:34] » nobody's online.
>> Okay. All right. And uh public
[19:39] notification. Are we good?
>> Yes.
[19:43] » Dana was going to lead invocation.
>> No, no. Public notification.
[19:45] » Public notification. Everything was
noticed according to Wisconsin open
[19:48] meeting laws.
>> Okay. and the invocation our supervisor
[19:53] Heler.
[19:59] Dear Lord, thank you for bringing us
together today in fellowship and
[20:03] service. We ask that you grant us your
divine wisdom to make decisions that are
[20:08] not just important for us but for our
families, our neighbors, and all the
[20:13] constituents of Baron County. As we
discuss the future of data centers in
[20:18] our community, we ask for the spiritual
discernment to navigate complex
[20:22] information. Help us weigh the
technological and economic choices
[20:27] before us with a spirit of stewardship,
ensuring we protect the resources and
[20:32] community you have entrusted us in care.
Guide our speech, open our minds, and
[20:39] help us act in a way that honors our
responsibilities and glorifies you. We
[20:44] ask this through you, Lord, and your son
Jesus Christ. And altogether all God's
[20:49] people said, "Amen."
>> Amen. Thanks, Dana.
[20:53] » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[20:59] republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[21:06] justice for all.
[clears throat]
[21:12] » Special matters and announcements.
>> Yes. Uh, county board members, you know
[21:15] that there is a special meeting of the
West Central Wisconsin Regional Planning
[21:19] Commission on Tuesday the 29th of
September. $25 charge to go. Um, you can
[21:25] either please pay that and put it on
your time sheet. We'll repay we will pay
[21:29] you when we pay your payroll. Please, if
you can if you can attend that, it's
[21:33] going to be on data centers. I believe
it's going to be Mr. Okonnell will be
[21:36] there as well. Highly recommend you
attend that to learn as much as you can.
[21:40] That's the only thing I have, sir.
Okay. Number five, approve the agenda.
[21:46] Motion by Supervisor Olsson, second by
Supervisor Cook. Any concerns with the
[21:51] agenda?
Seeing none, all in favor indicate by
[21:54] saying I. I. Say no. Motion's carried.
I'm going to move off my seat and go and
[22:00] sit next to Pete and Dennis in a minute
here. But I just wanted to let you know
[22:05] there is no vote today. It's, you know,
the earliest we'll be voting is is
[22:10] probably October board meeting. Today is
information only. Um, and and today and
[22:17] then what Jeff just referenced,
September 29th down in Oaklair. And what
[22:21] we're trying to do is educate the board
of supervisors so we can make the best
[22:26] decision for the residents of Baron
County. Yes, the I there's going to be a
[22:31] time when we're going to have to have
public comment, but today I just wanted
[22:38] to try to educate uh the board and also
the same thing on the 29th. So, um
[22:45] that's it all I've got saying I'm going
to move back into the not it's not the
[22:48] galley but
>> no to if you have problems registering
[22:51] with that online link with West Central
Regional Planning. I know some of you
[22:55] have please just give them a call. Mr.
Mr. Chairman, what would be in order now
[22:58] is this would be a member should say, I
move that the assembly go into close,
[23:03] excuse me, I move that the assembly go
into a committee of the whole to
[23:07] consider uh a data center moratorum.
That would be the proper motion. Okay.
[23:14] Motion by supervisor Cook, second by
supervisor Bowski.
[23:19] Is there any concerns with doing that?
It's why we're here. All in favor of uh
[23:24] doing going into the committee of the
whole indicate by saying I. I. Both say
[23:29] no. So we're in the committee of the
whole and I'm now out in the assembly
[23:33] and Jeff's running the meeting. Okay. I
want to take a little time to talk about
[23:38] what a committee the whole does, what it
affords members and why you see color
[23:43] coding in front of you. So first of all,
it apologize for that. um it does not
[23:50] limit debate and it also allows
supervisors to talk across to one
[23:57] another. That's what a committee the
whole does. And so it it doesn't in a
[24:02] normal meeting at a legislative body for
example supervisor Bakowski would only
[24:06] be able to speak to an item twice.
That is why we have a committee the
[24:11] whole so that you can ask questions
multiple times. What I've done is I've
[24:18] split the county board up into red,
white, and blue teams. I did that based
[24:22] on some reading I did underneath
Robert's rules of order. And what that
[24:26] allows me as chairman to do is I will
ask the red committee what do you have
[24:31] for questions? So in this instance, if
supervisor Bakowski has a question, he
[24:35] asks a question. Then the red committee
members other ones ask questions. Then
[24:40] we go on to the white and the blue
allowing people each a representative
[24:44] amount of time to ask questions. I made
a point about cross cross referencing in
[24:50] a meeting legislative body you address
all things to the chair when you're in
[24:55] committee the whole for example
supervisor Patty Anderson could say to
[24:59] supervisor vaugh supervisor vaugh you
asked this question could you just
[25:03] please give me a little bit more
information so I understand what the
[25:06] basis of that question was then you can
give that information and may solicit
[25:10] another question that's the purpose of
the committee of the whole so there are
[25:15] some pro prohibited actions. You're not
going to make any motions. You can make
[25:19] recommendations to the assembly. You
cannot alter or charge the scope. So,
[25:23] we're not going to talk about
large-scale solar. We're not going to
[25:26] talk about the Vikings losing have
another losing season and and the
[25:29] Packers win in the Super Bowl. We're not
talk we're not going to discipline
[25:32] anybody. Um I'd prefer that um you
cannot generally use our table anything
[25:39] and I'd ask you to do that. So at this
time, so we're on the record and in
[25:44] commit keeping with Robert's rules of
order, I'm going to get place the
[25:48] statement of business. The statement of
business for the Baron County Board of
[25:52] Supervisors going into a committee the
whole on Monday, August 31st, 2026 at 1
[25:58] p.m. is for the Baron County Board of
Supervisors to receive information from
[26:04] Mr. Mark O Connell the president and CEO
of Wisconsin Counties Association and
[26:09] Rebecca Roker from Atollus Law to
discuss the possibility and receive
[26:14] information on a moratorum for data for
data mining centers. So with that I am
[26:22] now going to turn over this present turn
over the mic to Mr. Okonnell, let him
[26:28] dis make a presentation. When he is
done, then we're going to allow
[26:33] questions from the board. And so, please
take a piece of paper, write something
[26:37] down, then we'll take questions at that
time. So, Mark, with that, I'll let you
[26:41] go.
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Um,
[26:44] good to see uh my friends in the Baron
County Board once again. Uh, thank you
[26:49] for inviting me to participate in in
this meeting. Um,
[26:55] data centers is not just the issue of
the day in Baron County or in northwest
[27:02] Wisconsin or
in Wisconsin as a whole. It is the issue
[27:06] of the day in the country
uh really quite frankly uh most of the
[27:13] civilized world. It is it is the issue
um and it's not going away. uh
[27:20] artificial intelligence is not going
away and therefore data centers is not
[27:24] going away. So we will be dealing with
this issue as a nation and as states and
[27:29] as communities for quite some time to
come or at least until some other
[27:34] technology comes along that um
supersedes the need for data centers.
[27:40] You have asked me to participate in this
meeting to talk about where we are as a
[27:45] state and provide you with some factual
information which quite frankly um there
[27:52] is a lot of information available uh out
there on data centers.
[27:57] Some of it is factual, some of it is
hyperbole, some of it is manufactured,
[28:02] some of it is outright false. Um, but
there's a lot of it out there and it's
[28:07] hard to discern exactly what is true and
what is not. Um, people have opinions on
[28:13] data centers. There is no right or
wrong. People, everyone's entitled to an
[28:17] opinion on a data center. But here
today, I'm going to relay to you what
[28:22] what I know of the data center situation
in Wisconsin. And then we'll go through
[28:27] some of the pros and cons of data
centers. And then we'll talk about uh
[28:32] some of the uh fears and critiques of
data centers and what which ones are
[28:38] legitimate. Uh and I've categorized
whether some of the fears are truly
[28:43] legitimate, moderately legitimate or
really not legitimate at all. And then
[28:49] you need to do what you think is best
for Baron County. And again, there is no
[28:53] right or wrong. Um I think let me start
off with with this uh as we walk through
[28:59] this conversation
um part of what we need to keep in mind
[29:06] in my opinion as your staff person for
multiple decades is what our role is as
[29:13] local government policy makers and I say
that not just as county board but our
[29:18] city town and village friends as well.
Uh our our role our responsibility is to
[29:24] create a framework and a structure of
laws, rules, regulations, ordinances
[29:32] such that our citizens and our
businesses can conduct their affairs
[29:37] with a sense of reliability and and
trust that we are moving in a direction
[29:43] that an issue has been well um thought
out and reasoned and that they can
[29:49] conduct their affairs if they abide by
the laws, rules, and regulations that
[29:54] have been uh well thought out by a
governing body. Uh we might even toss in
[30:00] the state in that regard. Now, the state
has not passed laws on data centers yet.
[30:06] Uh many counties have, most counties,
almost all counties have not passed laws
[30:11] on data centers. Um, but our our role as
local government officials is to create
[30:17] that structure and framework,
not necessarily to pick and choose
[30:23] winners. And and I I I I lay the I want
to lay a a a base sort of a a base
[30:30] premise on this.
Um, we set the boundaries, but we don't
[30:37] determine uh who can win or lose within
those boundaries. for example,
[30:44] uh it's really not our role to say we're
going to allow uh large structures to
[30:51] occur like warehouses to occur in a
particular geographic area. We're going
[30:56] to allow CVS, but we're not going to
allow Walgreens. That would be picking a
[31:00] winner and loser. We're going to allow
Walmart, but we're not going to allow
[31:04] Amazon. That would be picking winners
and losers. If both abide by the laws,
[31:09] rules and regulations that we have set
up in our structure and framework, then
[31:13] they should be able to conduct business
if they abide by those laws, rules, and
[31:18] regulations. And if they do not, then
they need to abide by the legal system.
[31:22] The legal system will will play its
role. And there may be penalties,
[31:27] perhaps suspension of activity, possibly
even up to termination of that activity,
[31:31] whether that's a business or an
individual citizen if they violate the
[31:35] rules of society. as you as a county,
city, town, village or state have so
[31:40] determined. That's but that's our role.
The reason we have it that way is
[31:45] because the citizens and our businesses,
our communities need some sense of
[31:50] reliability that we are not going to
shift from one end of the spectrum to
[31:55] the other based on the whims of an
individ of of an individual body. Let me
[32:01] give you an example.
Uh and it will be a ludicrous example.
[32:07] If if if we if we made public policy
based on our whims of picking winners
[32:15] and losers and what we what we felt, for
example, and let's use data centers, I
[32:20] guess, because it's the issue of the day
as an example. We really did we if we
[32:24] didn't really know what data centers
what we what we liked or disliked about
[32:29] them, but we had this uh inner feeling
that we didn't like them. So, we're
[32:35] opposed to them even though we maybe
didn't necessarily know why. And we took
[32:39] action to say no data centers. Well,
we'd be picking a winner and a loser
[32:44] because we're saying other large
operations who might abide by laws,
[32:48] rules, and regulations are okay, but
this data center operation who might be
[32:52] abiding by the same laws is not okay
based on our feelings.
[32:58] But what would happen if the next
governing body, county board, city
[33:04] council, village, town, whoever, if that
county board or city council or village
[33:09] said, you know, I like um I like a lot
of older people in my community. Really
[33:14] don't like children. We're going to
we're going to ban child care centers.
[33:19] Well, that's ludicrous and ridiculous
and really quite I mean just super
[33:26] ridiculous.
But that would be picking a winner and a
[33:30] loser. Completely ridiculous. But we
can't have that. It would be that that's
[33:36] unreliable to the citizens to our
businesses. We'd be creating a a
[33:40] scenario where the county board or city
council or village council after that
[33:43] would say, "We're going to fix that."
And yet, and then we'd have a society
[33:47] where we'd move from one end of the
spectrum to the other constantly every
[33:51] time there's an election. And quite
frankly, the elections would occur
[33:54] because there'd be recalls all the time.
We had that a few years ago up in the
[33:59] eastern part of the state on a few other
issues that occurred, but it's it's not
[34:04] it's not good for our democracy to have
moving from one end of the spectrum to
[34:08] the other yet. That's what it would
that's what would occur. So based on
[34:12] that we need to have well reasoned
public policy based on facts based on
[34:19] what the issue what the issues really
are before the body and the governing
[34:24] body needs to evaluate and assess the
real issues you may be for or against a
[34:32] particular policy. It is perfectly fine
to be against data centers. There's
[34:38] nothing wrong with that. But be against
what the what the actual issue is. Not
[34:44] necessarily the data center, but if
you're against the the the noise
[34:50] pollution, if you're against uh the the
non-disclosure agreements that are
[34:55] required, I mean, what is it exactly you
would be against? Not just the words
[35:01] data center, and we'll walk through some
of this. So, where where are we today?
[35:06] Well, um on the hypers scale, that's a
nice word for really large uh data
[35:11] center, high large scale operations,
we have six in the state which are
[35:16] upwards of $30 billion uh in size and
there's no real good way to determine or
[35:23] to describe the size of the data center
except basically about basically how
[35:28] much it's like not really number of
units uh or how much how many much
[35:33] megawatts of of power they've been
using, but really the value of the of
[35:37] the the operation but the these six
operations are in excess of 30 billion.
[35:42] There have been five there are five that
are currently in development not just
[35:46] contemplated but in development and
there are four that were uh estimated at
[35:52] about 25 billion that were um that were
defeated. uh they were proposed, they
[35:59] were discussed, they were debated and a
governing body uh either defeated the
[36:05] proposal or the entity itself withdrew
after uh for any number of reasons
[36:11] mostly public sentiment.
So let's walk through um the pros and
[36:17] cons of a data center. Uh and I'll I'll
let me just walk through these and you
[36:23] may have questions and I'd encourage you
to ask all you like. I may not have all
[36:27] the answers to all of your questions. Uh
I'm not an expert in data centers. Uh
[36:31] but I've talked uh with the utility
industry. I've talked with the data
[36:36] center folks. I've talked with opponents
of data centers. Uh and I've talked with
[36:40] many citizens on the issue. So I have
some knowledge of this issue, but it
[36:44] it's not my expertise.
All right. So some of the pros. Well, uh
[36:48] here's what some of the some folks would
say the pros are. Uh, one of the pros is
[36:54] that it's a large capital investment.
Wisconsin's major projects range from
[36:59] roughly a billion uh to 15 billion. The
billion was the Meta Center in Beaver
[37:04] Dam. The 15 billion was the Vantage uh
operation Port Washington. Uh there are
[37:10] seven projects uh announced in 2025 that
total roughly 57 billion. That's a
[37:16] combination of the six that are
currently in operation and then the five
[37:20] that have been uh that are in
development. A second uh pro is
[37:25] construction employment. Um the Mount
Pleasant operation employed nearly
[37:30] 10,000 construction workers over
approximately a 2-year period. uh was
[37:36] the um
in total the the the ones currently in
[37:41] operation are expected to employ roughly
4,000 plus construction jobs mostly
[37:46] union I guess that's in the Port
Washington operation so a lot of union
[37:50] labor but not entirely uh that is what's
many people would say is a is a is a pro
[37:57] uh another another pro that people
assess to data centers is that uh it's
[38:02] the creation of permanent jobs though
modest relative to uh investment.
[38:08] Microsoft's uh contemplated Mount
Pleasant building employs about 300 or
[38:13] 550 full-time employees. Meta's Beaver
Dam will employ roughly a 100. Uh there
[38:18] is a think tank called Brookings and
roughly they say roughly it's 100
[38:24] permanent jobs per large-scale facility.
That is a very rough estimate because
[38:30] large scale has lots of different
meanings. You can have very large large
[38:34] scale or relatively small large scale
but roughly 100 permanent jobs per large
[38:40] scale facility.
Another pro uh utility and grid
[38:44] infrastructure is paid for by the
developer not the county or other uh
[38:50] entities or or uh rateayers. Uh Meta is
funding nearly 200 million in the
[38:57] Alliant Energy substation transmission
upgrades for Beaver Dam. Um the PSC's uh
[39:03] latest tariff order requires very large
customers to cover 100% of dedicated
[39:10] generation and grid costs. And I'll get
into that in just a little bit. Another
[39:15] pro, property and utility tax uh base
growth.
[39:20] I say this I want to repeat that
property and tax base growth not um
[39:26] there there are some there's a negative
to the to the tax issue as well and that
[39:30] is uh sales and use tax exemption we'll
get to that in a second but the property
[39:34] and utility tax base growth uh plus
negotiated community benefits in some
[39:39] deals not all deals but some deals
meta's 10year 15 uh billion dollar $15
[39:46] million contribution to uh Alliance
low-income energy assistance
[39:50] was one example. Uh DeForest, that's a
failed example that that did not go
[39:55] through. The forest deal included a um
guaranteed tax revenue, uh some river
[40:03] improvements and affordable housing
commitments. That did not happen. It was
[40:07] eventually turned down by the DeForest
city council, but that include that deal
[40:12] would have included those things.
Another pro leverage for county govern
[40:17] for local government uh because these
are high value high-profile projects.
[40:22] Communities that engage early have
negotiating power on sighting, buffers,
[40:28] water protection, and um benefit sharing
before any permit is granted. After the
[40:35] permit is granted, your negotiating and
leverage is lessened. Generally
[40:41] speaking, not always, but generally. All
right, let's go to the cons for a
[40:45] moment. The downside of a data center.
Uh what is often mentioned, electricity
[40:52] cost shift, risk to residential and
small business rate payers. This was um
[40:58] the central issue in the Wii Energy's
rate case. And I'm going to that that is
[41:02] listed as a as a con, but I'm going to
get to how that was addressed here
[41:06] momentarily. Another downside,
state uh sales and use tax exemption. It
[41:12] reduces state revenue. The projected is
roughly 1.5 billion uh in foregone
[41:19] construction and about 370 million per
year in ongoing statewide uh state and
[41:26] uh sales and use tax. Now, this is a
little bit debatable because um some
[41:32] economists would say if you'd never
built the data center, you wouldn't have
[41:36] had the sales and use tax anyway. So,
did you really lose it? Well, there's
[41:42] there's no right or wrong to that
debate, but uh roughly $370 million lost
[41:47] because we're not applying the sales and
use tax. Another uh negative
[41:53] uh water use and private well
contamination risk. Significant driver
[41:58] of the opposition
uh elsewhere in the state has been this
[42:02] issue. Some developers like Meta have
adopted dry cooling design specifically
[42:08] to minimize this. So, the actual risk
varies a great deal by project design.
[42:14] And we'll talk a little bit about this
in just a few minutes. Another downside
[42:17] negative, noise, dust, and light
pollution. Residents near Microsoft's uh
[42:23] fall uh fall water, the Mount Pleasant
project um filed a class action lawsuit
[42:30] in July of 2026 over noise and dust. Um,
noise is commonly tied to diesel backup
[42:37] generators and cooling equipment and is
a legitimate item for sighting and
[42:41] buffer conditions. So, that that was
definitely an issue. Another downside, a
[42:46] negative, uh, farmland and open space
conversion. Uh, the proposed and
[42:52] rejected projects elsewhere in the state
have uh, looked at roughly 320 to over
[42:58] 1,600 acres of farmland being used per
data center site.
[43:04] Uh, another negative, modest permanent
job counts. We talked about roughly 100
[43:10] permanent jobs per data center. What
what some people say is a negative to to
[43:15] data centers. It's they they people
would say only modest permanent job
[43:19] counts relative to the scale and
investment and infrastructure
[43:24] commitment. It's a fair point to weigh,
but honestly, um it's again when you
[43:29] look at a uh construction jobs and tax
base, um I'm not really sure that that's
[43:35] much of a con. Another uh negative uh
process and trust risk. All right, this
[43:42] is probably the biggest negative when it
comes to u cons of a data center. uh the
[43:49] non-disclosure agreements that have been
the single it's been the single biggest
[43:53] driver of of public backlash statewide
independent of what communities
[43:58] ultimately decided about the projects
themselves the non-disclosure agreements
[44:02] have been a sticking point almost
everywhere that they that the that
[44:06] they've been in place
um and then lastly a con no statewide
[44:12] legislative framework has has been put
in place as of yet as of mid 2026 the
[44:17] legislature has not passed any data
center specific uh sighting water or NDA
[44:23] legislation. Uh I'm not sure we're going
to get there depending upon what the
[44:28] what happens with the elections, but I
would not be looking for any major
[44:32] action um uniform action uh that's
imminent.
[44:39] Okay. So with that brief sort of procon
uh let's talk about the criticisms of
[44:47] data centers and I I I want to talk
about whether these are well doumented
[44:52] criticisms
uh and whether they're legitimate or
[44:55] not. So, uh, the number one criticism,
the non-disclosure agreement, this is
[45:02] this has this this secrecy issue, uh,
this is definitely legitimate as a
[45:08] process complaint independent of what
you think of data centers themselves.
[45:12] It's a governance criticism. It's not
really a crit criticism of the data
[45:16] center itself. It's a criticism of the
governance. Um
[45:22] it's uh this this issue is largely
self-inflicted by the governing bodies
[45:28] and the data center um hierarchy. Uh
they have voluntarily entered into these
[45:34] non-disclosures. Rebecca may speak to
this issue. I'm not really sure even
[45:38] sure that the non-disclosure can be
enforced uh by for a local unit of
[45:43] government, but none nonetheless that
has been a major issue when it comes to
[45:47] uh criticism of data centers. So, it's
that's definitely a legitimate criticism
[45:52] and it's it comes up all the time.
Another uh criticism critique uh
[45:58] foregone tax revenue via the sales tax
exemption. We talked about it earlier.
[46:03] This is u I'm not really sure that this
is a legitimate critique. Um I wouldn't
[46:09] put this in a strong critique category
because you could argue this either way.
[46:14] We're foregoing uh 370 roughly speaking
of the current data centers roughly
[46:20] sales and use tax revenue as a state and
locals $370 million a year. Um but we
[46:26] wouldn't have had we wouldn't have that
if there were no data centers. So the
[46:30] fact that we're having data centers uh
and we give the the exemption means
[46:35] we're not getting it yet. If we have the
data centers, we are going to get the uh
[46:41] property tax base and income tax for
those that are employed, income tax for
[46:47] all of the construction workers. So
there is some economic benefit there.
[46:51] You can have all kinds of economic
models that will tell you tell you
[46:53] there's a there's a net positive to
that. But we are foregoing that sales
[46:58] and use tax
uh during the con during the
[47:02] construction. That that is definitely
true. Is this a legitimate critique?
[47:08] It's, uh, technically, factually
legitimate, but I wouldn't put a lot of
[47:12] weight in it.
Um, so, uh, moderately legitimate. Let's
[47:19] go through a couple of those.
Uh, permanent job counts relative to
[47:25] investment. Okay, so Brookings says
roughly a 100 jobs per largecale data
[47:33] center.
Um, as we said, Mount Pleasant has is
[47:37] employing 550. U Beaver Dam is roughly
100. Is it legitimate? Is that a
[47:44] legitimate criticism? Um, I guess
technically
[47:49] I suppose you could say yes. But in
comparison to other economic development
[47:54] ventures, I'm not sure it really holds a
lot of water. So, if we're going to
[47:59] criticize the existence of a data center
based on permanent jobs,
[48:04] would we not also have to criticize
uh I guess baseball diamonds and soccer
[48:10] fields taking up a lot of land but not a
lot of employees or storage units or uh
[48:17] I mean any number of other employee
employers or operations that have large
[48:22] land use but not a lot of employees. So
that is one where it sort of falls in
[48:29] the category of I don't like data
centers so I'm going to dream up any way
[48:33] I can to criticize it. So I'm not sure
that's that's much of a legitimate uh uh
[48:39] issue. Another critique uh water use. Um
this is absolutely a legitimate issue uh
[48:46] for the evaporate evaporative cooling
designs but increasingly it is greatly
[48:55] overstated as a blanket criticism
because several of the Wisconsin
[48:59] projects for example Meta's Beaver Dam
Microsoft's um uh stated design goals um
[49:06] they're using dry cooling or closed loop
systems. So this is one where depending
[49:12] upon the design, it could absolutely be
a legitimate criticism of a data center.
[49:18] But if you're using a dry cooling or a
closed loop, um not so much not so much
[49:24] of a legitimate criticism. You need to
we would need to know what what type of
[49:28] a uh system is being proposed for the
cooling of the of the of the operations
[49:35] within the data center. Um, so that's
that that could be a legitimate uh
[49:40] criticism or it could simply be a a
straw man type criticism.
[49:46] Uh, noise and light pollution.
Uh, this is u this is a legitimate
[49:52] criticism. Um, but it's absolutely
manageable. So this has been a criticism
[49:59] in other operations.
However, uh for example, in one of the
[50:04] in one of the uh operations, uh I think
it was the uh Mount Pleasant one when
[50:10] this was raised, uh they engaged in
barriers or setbacks and so you could
[50:16] mitigate the noise and light pollution
issue during construction and or
[50:21] thereafter. So it this is definitely a
legitimate criticism, but it's also one
[50:26] that by design or modified design can be
addressed. So it's legitimate
[50:33] documented, but it's also flexible.
Um, okay. The cost the another criticism
[50:40] cost shift to taxpayers. Okay, we'll
spend just a little just a few minutes
[50:44] on this because this initially this was
one of the biggest criticisms of the
[50:48] data centers.
data centers are going to come into my
[50:52] community. They're going to use a lot of
power. They're going to build power
[50:55] plants, trans transmission lines.
They're going to use a lot of power and
[50:59] I as as a small business or a resident
am going to have going to be stuck with
[51:04] a higher bill. Well, in March of 2000,
uh the answer to that is not that's not
[51:10] correct. In March of 2025, uh, we
energies asked state regulators, the
[51:16] public service commission for permission
to create a special electric rate. It
[51:22] was called very large customer tariff.
In other words, very large customer rate
[51:27] for large power users like data centers.
The utility's original plan would have
[51:32] had data centers pay for 75%
of the cost of a new power plant built
[51:39] to serve uh built to serve the data
centers and regular customers,
[51:44] households and small businesses would
cover the other 25% plus the ongoing
[51:50] fuel costs. That was the proposal that
was submitted to the PSC. That was in
[51:55] March of 25. In April of 26, about a
year later, the public service
[52:01] commission announced a decision.
They said in plain English, they said if
[52:07] a data center wants power, the data
center is going to pay for it. In other
[52:12] in other words, here are the points.
Data centers, the 7525, they threw it
[52:17] out. data centers have to pay for 100%
of the cost of the power um and
[52:24] infrastructure built for the data
center. It locked the data centers into
[52:29] a 15-year contract. So, a data center
could not come in, get uh power for a
[52:35] few years and then leave. They were
committed for 15 years of that 100%
[52:41] paying for 100% of that cost.
It lowered the size of the threshold for
[52:46] which the comp for which companies had
this rule applied to it. It it was 500
[52:51] megawatt it went down to 100 megawatt.
So any any entity using a 100 megawatt
[52:58] or higher this rule applied to it. So
100 megawatts or more you have to pay
[53:04] for a 100% of the infrastructure and the
power that you're going to use to to run
[53:10] your operation.
and it required the utility to report
[53:14] back to the public service commission on
a regular basis. So, one of the one of
[53:19] the biggest criticisms of the data
centers, they're going to come in, use a
[53:23] lot of power, and others are going to
have to pay for it. The public service
[53:27] commission told Wei Energies, no. Now,
that applies to Wii Energies. Uh I
[53:32] suspect that there will be there's an
appeal of that. I'm I'm not We'll see
[53:36] where that appeal goes. I would be
surprised if it went anywhere, but we'll
[53:40] see. Um I would suspect that there will
be uh similar decisions made uh in
[53:47] regard to other um
other uh ventures in the data center
[53:53] world. Another critique. Oh
>> thank you.
[53:58] » We're almost done and then we then we
can we're we're almost done. Farmland uh
[54:02] open space loss. Um this is uh
definitely a real it's this is
[54:08] definitely real. It's real in terms of
acreage. I, as I said earlier, 300
[54:13] to,600 is roughly what what's been
utilized in the uh data centers.
[54:19] definitely a legitimate issue. But uh
the use of 300 to,600 acres for a data
[54:25] center that is that's it's
comparable or less to many other
[54:33] operations that we use uh for other
types of oper for other types of
[54:37] ventures might be a housing development
or any number of other things. So
[54:41] definitely a criticism, definitely real.
Um but in comparison to others, a body
[54:47] would have to evaluate that. And then um
getting right getting toward the end
[54:52] here, uh data centers are increasingly
bad for the local economies. That is a
[54:57] criticism we've heard quite a bit. Uh
the polling that you sometimes hear um
[55:03] cited shows public skepticism, but
there's a sentiment, but that's a
[55:08] sentiment finding, not an economic one.
It doesn't establish the underlying uh
[55:14] that the underlying deals are bad, only
that they're unpopular. Now, that those
[55:19] are two different things. It might be it
doesn't mean they might be unpopular. It
[55:24] doesn't mean that it's bad. It could be
bad. could be unpopular and bad. Uh but
[55:29] it could be good and unpopular. So you
have to evaluate that. Uh unpopularity
[55:35] and illegitimacy are not the same thing.
They're they're different. That's part
[55:40] of what our responsibility is as local
government officials, city, town,
[55:45] village, county. Um we're not
necessarily here to make the popular
[55:50] choice, but a well-reasoned choice. and
having a data center may not be a good
[55:55] choice in Baron County or northwest
Wisconsin or anywhere may not be a good
[56:01] choice but then again it may you you
have to decide that and there are many
[56:06] more many considerations that you have
to put into the mixing bowl before you
[56:09] make a before you make a decision.
Um
[56:15] let's see um
I guess I'll I'll I'll end there and
[56:20] then we can open it up to questions. Um,
and uh, we'll see where the conversation
[56:25] takes us.
>> Yes. Yeah.
[56:28] » So, as I said, I split you up in red,
white, and blue. So, red team, you're
[56:32] on. First question. Supervisor Cook.
>> Um,
[56:36] » please use your mic. Please use your
mic, everyone.
[56:38] » Um, very nice job. I I do I am on a
electrical co-op board. uh in Von County
[56:46] and the communities we serve, when the
Sand plants came in, they had to pay for
[56:50] all of their infrastructure 100%
upfront. So when they left um their
[56:56] substations, well actually our
substations, they they paid for those.
[57:00] So I think of the 24 co-ops at least
that Dairine has, that would probably be
[57:06] something that you would see. Um the
other thing that um you can put into a
[57:12] concern which is real is that uh data
centers don't help our reliability issue
[57:18] in that when it comes to renewables
um data centers run 247 unlike Bitcoin
[57:25] and some other uh types of u data um
issues. These these plants are required
[57:32] to run 247. They do not shut down. So um
from a reliability standpoint um our
[57:39] base load which is our coal nuclear uh
gas generation uh that's what we have.
[57:45] So all the solar fields wind farms that
we put up um do not help alleviate that
[57:51] issue which is a real issue um moving
forward. But um no u I thought it was a
[57:59] good uh a good presentation. The one
thing I would like in terms of scale of
[58:03] the six that we do have uh in the state,
I know you talked about putting it in
[58:07] billions. Of those six, what is their
footprint in acres? Do we know that?
[58:13] » Uh let me see here. Um
[58:23] uh I don't have the acreage for the
footprint. I have some of the square
[58:27] footage for the facility, but I can let
me see if I can find that and I'll get
[58:32] it to the body
>> again. And to put it in perspective,
[58:34] when we take a look at some of the
renewables, I mean, everyone talks about
[58:37] how much farmland or in terms of open
spaces actually knowing that uh just in
[58:42] terms of perspective.
>> Yeah, very good point.
[58:44] » Thank you.
>> I'll see I'll see if I can find that. Um
[58:48] I on the six that are current I know I
can find it on the on the ones that are
[58:54] being contemplated they're guarded with
the information but on the six I can
[58:58] find for sure.
>> Thank you.
[58:59] » Excellent red team. Other questions?
Supervisor Anderson?
[59:03] » Yes. This might be rather naive on my
part but why do we need a data center?
[59:10] Uh well uh artificial intelligence is uh
uses um
[59:16] enor enormous computing power and it
runs through data centers and now um
[59:24] if you're using Google you really you'd
have to you'd have to purposely not use
[59:29] uh artificial intelligence to use Google
uh which is using a data center. So when
[59:35] you do a Google search, it's running
through a data center. Uh and these data
[59:39] centers are going to be built somewhere,
Russia, China, India, or the United
[59:46] States. The United States government has
taken the position that if they're going
[59:50] to be built somewhere, they would rather
have them built within [clears throat]
[59:52] the borders of the United States or
North America rather than u overseas.
[59:59] So, uh, if we did not have data centers,
um, well, I guess it there's not really
[1:00:05] there's not much reason to talk about
that because it's they're going to
[1:00:08] happen, Patty. Uh, and it is it's pure
computing power. Um, the society society
[1:00:14] is moving very rapidly, whether it's
online medical health, which is, uh,
[1:00:20] moving incredibly rapidly, whether it's
just
[1:00:24] young people today making their Tik
Toks. I mean it's it's everything. It's
[1:00:29] uh but artificial intelligence is
driving a lot of it.
[1:00:32] » And so the purpose is what do for what
reason do we save this data?
[1:00:37] » Do we save it?
>> Why why is it there?
[1:00:39] » Oh, it's well there's there's
uh saving the data. It's not really
[1:00:45] saving the data. It's the computing
power of searching um and communicating
[1:00:51] with all other with with I guess the
metaverse.
[1:00:57] uh of where all the data is. So these
are not this isn't um an area where a
[1:01:03] lot of data is stored so that you do a
search and it goes and looks for it's
[1:01:08] not like it's a giant encyclopedia where
you go to search for it. That's not what
[1:01:11] that is. It's not like a a cloud storage
is this is um massive rapid uh search
[1:01:21] searching of
millions of
[1:01:26] uh high-powered chips talking to each
other.
[1:01:30] » Okay, so let's we just used AI to answer
Supervisor Cook's question. Here they
[1:01:35] are. the Vantage data center in Port
Washington 2.5 million square feet
[1:01:40] across four singlestory buildings. So
Mike, so let's go back. You know
[1:01:45] everybody on this, you know that the
county policy is we use the W extension
[1:01:49] model of AI. We also site our sources.
So this came from the Wisconsin property
[1:01:56] map. So I asked this question, what is
the total square footage of the hyper
[1:01:59] data centers located in Wisconsin? The
Wisconsin property map an answer
[1:02:04] answered my question this way. The
Vantage data centers Port Washington 2.5
[1:02:10] million square feet across four
singlestory buildings.
[1:02:14] Need to slide down. Just give me just a
second.
[1:02:18] I
>> think you wanted acreage, Jeff.
[1:02:20] » Oh, you wanted acreage. Can you convert
square feet to acorage, Randy? I thought
[1:02:24] you could you
>> by 43,560
[1:02:27] and they're all single floors. I can I
can get that.
[1:02:29] » Okay. [laughter] So, Microsoft Fairwater
campus mount.
[1:02:32] » You have you have the guy right there.
>> Right. Exactly. I That's 1.2 million
[1:02:38] square feet across three massive
buildings. Microsoft campus Kenosha, 1
[1:02:43] million square feet across four 250,000
square foot buildings. And finally, the
[1:02:49] Meta Campus at Beaver Dam, 700,000
square feet. It's 2.7 3.7 You have 4.2
[1:02:57] two million square feet. Randy,
>> I'll tell you how many acres.
[1:03:02] » Okay, that's okay. So, red team, you're
you're still back. So, uh that would end
[1:03:09] with supervisor Gors would be our last
member of the red team. Is there another
[1:03:12] question from this group before
supervisor efforts?
[1:03:17] » Um well, the first question would be
that was just the building space, not
[1:03:22] the campus,
>> right?
[1:03:24] » Okay. So, that's all right.
>> It would be larger than that. Yeah.
[1:03:27] » Um, going with the electricity and the
power generation. Um, I'm just wondering
[1:03:34] about and maybe Supervisor Cook can
answer this when he's done doing his
[1:03:39] math with the acreage.
>> Well, actually, I'm just going to ask
[1:03:42] Chad how many acres. He can do the math.
Go [laughter] ahead.
[1:03:46] » Um,
so
[1:03:49] I mean I you hear different things. It's
going to be terrible on the energy. It's
[1:03:53] going to Oh, they'll pay for it. Um but
the the the average load, you know, if
[1:04:00] we get um several of these in the area
or one of these in the area, Dairland
[1:04:05] Power,
um do they have the capacity for that? I
[1:04:10] mean there's, you know, to add to that,
I the reason I'm asking is the last two
[1:04:16] years there's been issues with Dairland
Power um being down and then or part of
[1:04:23] their generation being down for two
separate reasons. And then we had to
[1:04:30] absorb in our bills buying it from other
areas and bringing the power in. And in
[1:04:37] the middle of winter, if you do that,
it's way more expensive. So, how
[1:04:42] [laughter]
how I don't know if I'm explaining it,
[1:04:45] okay, but how much closer is that margin
where if we get a really cold blizzard
[1:04:52] for a couple of weeks or we get 100
degrees for a couple weeks, how much
[1:04:57] closer does it put us to having to do
that and try to find power elsewhere to
[1:05:02] and at a higher cost? I would definitely
put that into the very legitimate
[1:05:07] question category. Uh and it's it's you
phrased it very well. So the the issue
[1:05:12] and there's a in our state we have
separated power generation from uh grid
[1:05:18] delivery. So um in our state well we
have a couple different mostly it's
[1:05:23] American transmission company uh with
the grid system and then generators of
[1:05:29] power uh separately. Now there's it's
not entirely that way but it's mostly
[1:05:34] that way. Um so what the PSC did in
their order is essentially say um that
[1:05:43] the u data center is responsible for the
buildout of the infrastructure to to and
[1:05:51] and cost to utilize and uh have the
power delivered to the data center. Now,
[1:05:58] that's
in our plain English. It's kind of mushy
[1:06:02] language. So, you'd want to be you would
want to have a conversation. If you were
[1:06:06] if you were serious about uh having a
data center in your area, you'd
[1:06:10] certainly want to have that conversation
about what does that mean? How do what
[1:06:14] does the public service commission order
mean? And how how assured can we be in
[1:06:19] our community whatever community is
being contemplated that we are not going
[1:06:23] to be uh in a position where we have to
get power uh and have a potential grid
[1:06:29] issue. So that might be an ATC question.
It might be a local electric co-op
[1:06:34] question. I'm not sure what grid system
they might be using, but we'd want to
[1:06:37] ask that question most assuredly.
>> Yeah,
[1:06:42] » if I can. Um you you touched on it. the
problem. Yeah. So all these data
[1:06:47] centers, my understanding is they have
to have their own backup generation
[1:06:52] because if if things happen and we go
into where everyone has to buy peak
[1:06:56] rates. So her husband, full disclosure,
is on Baron Electric Board with me. Uh
[1:07:01] we did have an incident where we had a
coal generation plant go down. It was
[1:07:04] down for two and a half weeks. Uh and we
had to buy off the open market, which we
[1:07:08] do anyway. All electricity that's
generated, even if you have a solar
[1:07:11] panel um that generates more than you
can use, gets put on the grid and the
[1:07:15] co-ops uh Durland Power has to buy that
back and sell it to the co-ops. Uh part
[1:07:21] of the cons is when these peak loads
happen, which uh you guys right now are
[1:07:26] getting 11 cents, 13 cents a kilowatt
charge. Well, when those peak loads
[1:07:31] happen, that 11 cents can turn into $111
like that. So data centers have their
[1:07:37] own most data centers I think all have
backup generation. That's the noise
[1:07:42] issue. Um because those are typically
either big diesel engines or their jet
[1:07:49] turbine engines and they make noise.
>> Okay. Red team. Anyone else? That ends
[1:07:57] at supervisor.
>> I have supervisor Gors. Go ahead.
[1:08:00] » More of a comment than anything. Uh, I
guess I'm I'm uh I'm a farmer at heart,
[1:08:07] so I'm big time concerned here with uh
the amount of uh crop land and stuff
[1:08:14] like that. It's being eaten up by these
solar panels and by these data centers
[1:08:18] and stuff like that there. And they and
like I said, what they call them when
[1:08:23] they sat there and they came out with
these uh solar panels, they said, "Well,
[1:08:26] it's only going to be 1.6% of the crop
land in Baron County." Well, if you sit
[1:08:32] there and you go 1.6% on one project and
1.6% on another and 2, all of a sudden
[1:08:39] we're we've lost uh 10% of our crop
land. And uh and I also like to know if
[1:08:46] we would sit there and could evaluate
the land there and maybe go use uh put
[1:08:52] some of these centers or whatever in uh
marginal land or land that essentially
[1:09:00] waste land because I mean they sit there
and they they want to go and put it like
[1:09:06] for instance the what they were talking
in Monomony they were sitting there
[1:09:09] talking
well I was looking at watching a TV
[1:09:14] there. Uh it was beautiful crop flat
crop land. Well, I know that what they
[1:09:20] call they don't want to sit there and
use all the dog on uh so much money on
[1:09:26] on excavating. Well, of course, so
they're going to come in with the
[1:09:30] flattest piece of property that they can
find and and put put it on just so they
[1:09:35] can go out there and just start building
instead of doing the excavating and
[1:09:39] stuff like that. That's that's just very
disheartening for me.
[1:09:44] » Well, I I think this might fall under
the um leverage for a local community.
[1:09:49] Um I mean that that specific comment on
the use of farmland. While
[1:09:55] [clears throat] I think you make a very
good point 1.6 1.6 1.6 pretty soon 10%
[1:10:02] of our land is gone or not not available
for farmland. Uh so it adds up quick. It
[1:10:09] may seem sound small at first but it
adds up quick. Um but the fact that uh
[1:10:16] there is a
public backlash whether it's whether
[1:10:21] it's based on fact or based on feeling
there is a public backlash. So it's
[1:10:26] being it's difficult in many cases to
site a data center. So if a community um
[1:10:34] was interested in uh a data center and
were was going to engage in
[1:10:40] conversations
um and if I were the data center and you
[1:10:45] said to me uh I'm willing to have a
conversation with you but I'd like you
[1:10:49] like you to look at marginal land as
opposed to farmland. Um, if I have that
[1:10:54] conversation with one community and I
have five other communities saying I
[1:10:59] don't like you, uh, I'm going to go to
the com to the community that says, uh,
[1:11:04] let's have a conversation about marginal
land. I'd be very open to that given the
[1:11:09] current, I guess, landscape that we're
that we're involved in. So, I think you
[1:11:14] have an opportunity if that's what you'd
like to do. You may you may also say, I
[1:11:18] don't even want it on marginal land.
That's up that's up to the the community
[1:11:22] itself. But you make a very good point
and uh in a in a in a testy environment
[1:11:28] think you've got you hold some cards to
say we'd rather have it on marginal land
[1:11:32] than farmland.
>> I just
[1:11:37] All right. I'm going to go on now to the
white team. That'd be supervisor Heler,
[1:11:42] Jenkins, Krug, Klick, Langman, McCreaty,
Miller, Mon, and Nelson. Do you have any
[1:11:46] questions? Supervisor Heler.
>> [clears throat]
[1:11:50] » when we're uh looking at this, we're
we're talking about using the data
[1:11:54] centers for general search and for
looking for things, but uh are the data
[1:11:59] centers not also integral to data
security and making sure that our data
[1:12:04] is going to be uh held within the bounds
of the United States and not being
[1:12:10] shipped out overseas where we don't have
control over our own data.
[1:12:14] » It's an excellent point. I mean, the
answer I gave Patty was the pop culture
[1:12:18] answer. Uh but there is so much more to
data centers and that's why um
[1:12:24] our federal government has made it
relatively clear that um
[1:12:30] not only that data centers are going to
exist but uh since they are going to
[1:12:36] exist uh the choice of their existence
being in a foreign land that may not be
[1:12:44] friendly to the United States or may not
be friendly to the United states in the
[1:12:48] future is not uh desirable, but rather
uh having them within the borders of the
[1:12:55] United States or at least in within the
borders of an ally of the United States
[1:13:00] uh is much much preferable due in part
to um a whole host of things, but
[1:13:06] national security being one of them, uh
data security being another, uh any
[1:13:12] number of any number of national
interests make an excellent point, sir.
[1:13:17] Other questions from the white team.
>> I was wondering um what is the closest
[1:13:23] proximity that family homes could be
built within or around that data center
[1:13:29] uh so they have an environment that is
safe and quiet enough?
[1:13:33] » That's a very good question. Uh and it
it I'm sorry it's a very good question.
[1:13:37] It it really depends on the design. Um
there some people have indicated they
[1:13:44] could hear the data center from quite
some distance away. Uh I have been at a
[1:13:49] at data center sites that have been
operational. Uh it I had to get within
[1:13:54] 20 ft to hear anything. So that was a
design issue. So it it will it will
[1:14:00] definitely depend on on the design. Um
and then on the then again on the water
[1:14:06] when you say safe if if you're on a
let's say a well uh it would depend on
[1:14:10] what kind of water usage they are using.
Is it a closed loop system or a dry
[1:14:15] cooling system no issues at all. If it
is on a municipal system again no issues
[1:14:20] at all uh or you know very likely no
issues at all. I guess you can say you
[1:14:24] shouldn't say never no issues but highly
likely no issues. Uh so it would all
[1:14:29] depend on on the design. Now most of
these data centers are I shouldn't we
[1:14:35] don't have a lot to choose from but um
around the country when you look at
[1:14:40] where data centers have been located
they they are not necessarily in
[1:14:46] residential areas. They are in
industrial park areas or out by
[1:14:52] themselves
unfortunately sometimes on very nice
[1:14:56] farmland. Um but they're not they're not
planted in the in the middle of
[1:15:00] residential areas. Um
now sometimes now now sometimes they're
[1:15:06] relatively are relatively close to some
residences. For example, in Lowden
[1:15:09] County, Virginia, perhaps the data
center capital of the of the world, they
[1:15:14] have in their one single county, I think
the number was I think it's 252 data
[1:15:21] centers in Lowden County, Virginia.
They've gone 100% in on data centers.
[1:15:26] Um, I I haven't been there, but I'm
guessing there's probably some
[1:15:31] residences close to a data center there.
But, uh, how close can you get? Depends
[1:15:35] on the design.
>> They aren't making land anymore.
[1:15:38] » They're not making any more land. That's
true.
[1:15:40] » Our residences keep spreading out. Uh,
and that's why I'm be a little
[1:15:45] concerned.
>> That's weather.
[1:15:47] » No more land is being made.
>> Difference on the weather conditions,
[1:15:50] too.
>> Yes. It would depend on weather and wind
[1:15:53] and what kind of barriers might be put
up. That's true. And that again, that
[1:15:57] would be something
if if it was if it were me and I was in
[1:16:01] a serious conversation, uh I would be
wanting to talk about design and uh
[1:16:07] sound or sight barriers. If that's what
you were interested in, I'd want to talk
[1:16:11] about that. And in the current
landscape, you have some leverage.
[1:16:15] » In these um cases, you said whether you
could hardly hear the sound. What are
[1:16:20] the best ways to effectively cut the
dey?
[1:16:25] uh an actual physical physical barrier
and then use of materials, the right
[1:16:30] kind of material. Maybe it's an earthen
burm. It might be uh the the the
[1:16:36] materials today. There are some
fascinating materials that builders are
[1:16:41] using even in homes to absorb sound. So,
I'm not a construction expert, but
[1:16:46] there's some pretty advanced materials
to absorb sound. Just depends how high
[1:16:50] you want to go to and where the sound is
coming from. it's if it's uh muffling a
[1:16:55] diesel sound or a jet engine sound or
just the hum of the uh internal
[1:17:01] components, whether the whether the
cement walls are, you know, 6 in thick
[1:17:05] or 12 in thick, lots of design issues
that you again, if you were if you were
[1:17:11] in conversations with a potential um
developer, those are the kinds of things
[1:17:15] you'd want to talk about. You want to
talk about your concerns and then you'd
[1:17:19] want them to come back with ideas on how
they would address your concerns.
[1:17:24] Continuing on with the white team, any
questions
[1:17:29] Dennis?
Supervisor Jenkins,
[1:17:33] » I'm just uh I'm curious. Is there a
is there like a large swing going from
[1:17:39] the water cooled systems to the the dry
and more enclosed systems in the
[1:17:46] industry?
>> Uh large swing. Well, the trend is
[1:17:49] definitely away from uh evaporative
systems and definitely toward closed
[1:17:56] loop and dry cooling. That is definitely
the trend. Um it
[1:18:02] I I wouldn't I don't know the reason
why, but I'm guessing public sentiment
[1:18:06] has something to do with it. So there
that's definitely the trend.
[1:18:09] » Okay,
[1:18:13] Supervisor Langman.
>> Hey, thank you very much for coming
[1:18:16] here. a lot of a lot of good
information. Um, I got a couple of
[1:18:21] comments. Um, I'm involved also with a
with a co-op, but it happens to be of
[1:18:26] the broadband variety. Um,
um, what type of information do you have
[1:18:32] about uh any data centers that are
located in Oaklair?
[1:18:38] Um,
[1:18:44] » do you know the name of the of the one
you're thinking of?
[1:18:47] » Yes, I do. We our our co-op happens to
be part owner of that data center.
[1:18:53] » Is it one that's currently in existence
or being developed?
[1:18:56] » It's in existence. It's named Win
Technologies.
[1:19:01] And what it is, it's a consortium of
about 30 plus co-ops
[1:19:06] [clears throat] ranging from uh central
Illinois,
[1:19:11] um most of the the entire state of
Wisconsin,
[1:19:15] uh Minnesota, Iowa, and the UP.
And uh most of the people that are
[1:19:22] sitting in this room are sending
technology to this data center.
[1:19:29] And it's located in uh in uh the old Uni
Royal building.
[1:19:35] If anybody ever heard
>> Banberry Place, um I toured it uh last
[1:19:43] year. Uh it's got about 100 people that
work there. Uh they're they're voted uh
[1:19:50] three years in a row of one of Oaklair's
best places to work.
[1:19:55] Now,
you know, obviously this whole when you
[1:20:00] when you talk about data centers, it's
the big bad wolf is is the what seems to
[1:20:05] be the public sentiment. Uh and and I do
understand the fact that we all use
[1:20:10] power, but nobody wants a power plant
next to our house. But uh um there are
[1:20:18] solutions to smaller uh and and I I and
I understand in the in the definition
[1:20:24] there's quite a few pages of a
definition of what that uh data center
[1:20:30] how large scale it could possibly be and
this doesn't look like this fits in
[1:20:35] that.
Um, you know, uh, I'm glad that that,
[1:20:40] uh, Louie is going to allow us to get
some more education because there's a
[1:20:44] lot there's a lot of stuff that that the
general public doesn't understand about
[1:20:48] what this works, the pros and the con.
And thanks for giving the opportunity
[1:20:53] for people to learn more about it. Thank
you.
[1:20:55] » Yeah, I don't have uh I don't have
Oaklair on my list. Um, and maybe it's
[1:20:59] because it it didn't it's because of the
size. Um, but I the last point you made
[1:21:04] is really an excellent point. Um, and I
I I'll maybe make more clearly a point I
[1:21:12] made earlier. It's it's fine to be
opposed really to anything at all or in
[1:21:18] support of anything at all. But I would
urge the a governing body, not just this
[1:21:23] Baron County Board, but really any
governing body, and I know many of you
[1:21:26] are on other governing bodies as well.
Um, and I but I'll use data centers as a
[1:21:31] as a an actual example
as opposed to being for or against
[1:21:38] data [clears throat] centers. Uh,
I would urge you to consider being for
[1:21:44] or against
something below that the subset thereof.
[1:21:51] I mean, are we against data centers or
are we against uh the light pollution or
[1:21:57] the sound or the dust? I mean, is is
that our problem? Because if that's our
[1:22:03] problem, okay, well, let's address that.
See if we can be addressed. Maybe it
[1:22:06] can't be addressed. Well, in that case,
I I I just can't I can't see my way
[1:22:11] clear because we cannot address that.
But you can't we don't want to just be
[1:22:15] absolutely against it or you we don't
want to be 100% for it. Okay. But uh
[1:22:21] what happens uh they're all going to be
used for evil purposes. So it doesn't
[1:22:25] matter. I'm I'm for it. It doesn't make
any sense. It'd be like saying uh um uh
[1:22:31] I'm I'm against all bridges because u
you know I I don't I don't like the the
[1:22:37] beams that they use. Well, that's
ridiculous. Change the beams.
[1:22:42] You can still be for bridges.
We have to be if we have a problem,
[1:22:47] let's address it. If we're for
something, just make sure we know what
[1:22:50] we're for. Uh so it's we don't want to
use blanket statements without knowing
[1:22:56] exactly what it is we are for or
against. Uh and then if we're against
[1:23:01] it, let's try to address it. If it can't
be addressed, you're perfectly
[1:23:05] legitimate to be against something. If
you're for something and it is it is you
[1:23:10] understand why you're for it, perfectly
fine to be for it.
[1:23:16] » Doing great, folks. White team, you want
more questions or do you want me to
[1:23:20] defer to the blue team?
I see nothing. So, blue team members,
[1:23:26] questions from to Mr. Okonnell.
Supervisor Wentz.
[1:23:35] » Actually, I have several, but I'll try
to try to limit uh the questions I have.
[1:23:41] Uh the first one is um not knowing much
about the bigger data centers that you
[1:23:45] mentioned into DeForest and so forth. Um
when those developments were in the
[1:23:52] planning stages, were there any
requirements either at the county or
[1:23:57] city or state level for um environmental
impact reviews for example?
[1:24:04] » Yes. Yeah. in uh in in several of those
cases they had environmental
[1:24:10] impact um studies issues. Yes, they uh
now not not to the extent where we might
[1:24:17] have had a um what is called an EIS
environmental impact statement like a
[1:24:22] DNR type statement but certainly uh
there would be an impact environmental
[1:24:26] impact
>> water issue um you know uh contamination
[1:24:30] issue and around the site. Yes, there'd
be those kinds of issues that would be
[1:24:35] that would be required of any particular
building permit or the zoning
[1:24:39] department. Um absolutely. And and who
would conduct those reviews then?
[1:24:46] » Uh well generally it's going to be a
private they might they might hire out a
[1:24:50] private entity to conduct that. Um I'm
not sure in that in the cases of the
[1:24:55] data centers
>> I'm not sure how that would go but maybe
[1:24:59] a mutually agreed upon private entity.
Uh I don't know that for certain but
[1:25:04] that would make some sense to me.
>> Okay.
[1:25:07] » Okay. Super I can't that's the end of
the question. I got to respect. We have
[1:25:10] to let your your your other team members
ask questions or I have to give it back
[1:25:14] to the red team. So, Supervisor
>> Greg Turk,
[1:25:20] » thank you for coming and sharing the
information. My question is more if a
[1:25:26] data center is built uh with property
taxes and does this affect net new
[1:25:33] construction to help the county down the
road with levy limits?
[1:25:40] » Well, this uh a data center is a
significant build. uh the dollar amount
[1:25:47] the value dollar amount on these data
centers has been pretty significant um
[1:25:51] at least on the on the large scale ones.
So that's going to be a pretty
[1:25:55] significant net new construction. Um but
Baron County is pretty big county. So
[1:26:02] you know is it going to is it going to
be noticeable? It'd be noticeable but is
[1:26:06] it going to bring your property taxes
down to zero? No. But you'd probably
[1:26:11] notice it. I mean I'm
>> Jeff probably even ran the numbers.
[1:26:14] Yeah, I mean it would if we got a $40
million that would be or $7 billion. So
[1:26:20] take if it was $40 million take that
that'd be what? 5% drop in the equalized
[1:26:25] valuation. So that'd be a 5% drop in
your mill rate. But may I chime in Mark?
[1:26:31] » Um we do have a town chair sitting here
to my left and we're finding out that to
[1:26:36] get around their property taxes, they
don't attach them to the soil. So now
[1:26:41] they're personal property and the state
legislature did away with personal
[1:26:44] property taxes. So that's how they get
around paying taxes. So there's no
[1:26:48] effect upside effect for the county from
the property tax side. So
[1:26:55] » done county supervisor Shreddle.
Yeah, I think we've had data centers and
[1:27:02] small like Fran was talking about for a
long time and of course we're in
[1:27:07] constant competition with China which we
have to acknowledge and hopefully beat
[1:27:13] them at it because they put up they
don't come to a board like this and say
[1:27:17] well we want to put up a data center
they just do it because the government
[1:27:20] orders it. So, another thing going back
to the probably the 1850s during the
[1:27:26] industrial revolution, people were just
wild. We're going to lose our jobs. Our
[1:27:30] kids won't have any jobs. Then you got
to the 1900s. What are we going to do
[1:27:35] with all the horses? Now the cars are
coming in. The harness maker in the
[1:27:38] corner. He's going to be out of
business.
[1:27:41] So, I think this is inev inevitable, but
I agree. We should really look into
[1:27:46] this. I thank you for your input, Mr.
Okonnell. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
[1:27:51] Blue team members, you have Supervisor
Vaughn.
[1:27:56] » Uh, can we go back to the the Wii
Energies and the PSC ruling? Yeah. You
[1:28:00] said that was just for WEI Energies. So,
if our township doesn't have WE
[1:28:03] energies, it would not affect us at all.
>> It would it would not affect you.
[1:28:06] There'd be there would have to be
another request for a tariff adjustment.
[1:28:10] Uh, but I would I would be incredibly
surprised if this uh does not get
[1:28:16] extended to all operations. Uh that
might be a
[1:28:22] that would be something that I could see
the legislature and governor agreeing on
[1:28:25] regardless of who occupies the
legislature and governor's office.
[1:28:29] Depending upon how the elections go,
they may not agree on much of anything,
[1:28:33] but this might be one of those things
they could agree on. Uh I could see
[1:28:36] that.
>> Other questions?
[1:28:40] » No, I have to go to Supervisor Wel
>> and I'm and I'm I'm happy to talk with
[1:28:46] anyone after this meeting. You can call
me anytime, day, night, weekend, or
[1:28:51] holiday. Chat with you as much as you
like.
[1:28:55] » Hi Mark, thanks a lot. I came in Sorry.
>> No, it's
[1:28:59] » Am I
um thanks a lot for the stuff you
[1:29:02] shared. It was I my opinions are based
on what I've heard from people people
[1:29:07] that are complaining. So, thank you for
that. Um
[1:29:11] what you mentioned county leverage or
leverage that we could have doing this
[1:29:15] early. um at what point
um
[1:29:21] how do we protect that leverage in still
using a mortorium and what um I forgot
[1:29:27] this oh the NDAs um I've heard a lot of
conflicting
[1:29:32] um messages about the NDA they're
worthless they're they're helpful what
[1:29:37] what do you what are your thoughts on
that and how have other areas that have
[1:29:41] had those have had luck with those
>> well the NDAs Um perhaps Rebecca can
[1:29:47] speak to this when she speaks in a few
minutes, but um
[1:29:52] the NDAs have been a a flash point for
the citizenry for some time um because
[1:30:00] they're viewed as secretive. Um and uh
somehow
[1:30:07] you the
uh information that should be revealed
[1:30:13] is not being revealed. Now there is in
in the private sector there is of course
[1:30:18] reason for NDAs because uh deals uh if
they were public could go ary uh if you
[1:30:25] were trying to acquire land if you were
trying to get lease holds uh if you're
[1:30:30] trying to put a deal together but if the
information got out it could blow the
[1:30:34] whole thing up uh you know things of
that sort and so there are reasons for
[1:30:37] an NDA. The question is whether a public
entity if it holds any water and that's
[1:30:43] something perhaps that Rebecca can get
into um on the first part the leverage
[1:30:49] question uh I if let's take a different
state if if you were a and and to the
[1:30:56] gentleman's earlier point we've had data
centers around for a long time this is
[1:31:01] not a new issue it's the issue of the
day but it's not new I mean our friends
[1:31:06] to the southwest Iowa had data centers
for decades. Uh it's just become the
[1:31:13] flavor of the day and the issue. But um
if we had a state where local
[1:31:20] communities around our entire state were
saying
[1:31:25] I want a data center, bring a data
center in here and and they were
[1:31:29] competing. Then our leverage becomes
basically non-existent.
[1:31:36] Uh but we don't have that. we have uh
there's difficulty in select in in
[1:31:41] citing a data center. So that's where
the leverage takes hold. That's where it
[1:31:46] exists. Now we also have communities all
over the state uh passing moratoriums.
[1:31:54] Now a moratorum
uh to to take a break and think about
[1:31:59] things.
Okay fine. a moratorum uh which is
[1:32:07] um window dressing for a ban
not so not so not not as good not so
[1:32:13] much um and that potentially invites
litigation as well potentially so you
[1:32:20] got to be careful about that I mean to
say you know we're we're going to have a
[1:32:26] it's moratorum but really we're just
doing that because we want to ban them
[1:32:29] forever it's not probably not a wise
policy move. Um where does your where
[1:32:37] does your your leverage
end
[1:32:42] when uh when data centers have um
choices as to where they are going to go
[1:32:51] and communities have said we we would
like to um work with you and um uh and
[1:32:59] we want you we're inviting you into our
community and we we we would we can come
[1:33:05] to agreement on using marginal land and
uh sound barriers and uh we'll work with
[1:33:12] you on this or work with you on that and
the and the data center says we'll do
[1:33:16] this and this and this for you. When
that starts happening leverage decreases
[1:33:21] when will that be? I'm not sure. It's
going to happen at some point. At some
[1:33:26] point uh communities in our state are
going to say uh I think I want a data
[1:33:32] center. Some will, many will not, some
will. When that happens, leverage
[1:33:37] decreases.
>> Supervisor Schneider, you have the
[1:33:41] floor.
>> I guess a question I had is, is there
[1:33:44] any security issues that uh fall back
onto the county from, you know, security
[1:33:50] to fire protection or all those kinds of
things?
[1:33:53] » Oh, definitely. Uh yeah, that's one of
the issues that that we are concerned
[1:33:57] about. Uh there is I mean there's a uh
fire and EMS is a major issue with these
[1:34:03] data centers. I mean that is a that is
an issue and if it is in a township um
[1:34:09] our townships are not um well equipped
some townships are not well equipped to
[1:34:15] handle uh fire e not so much EMS because
we don't have a lot of employees but a
[1:34:20] fire issue at a largecale facility that
is definitely an issue. definitely an
[1:34:26] issue and that should be one of the
issues on the table. If you were going
[1:34:30] to pursue a conversation with a data
center, you would want to talk about
[1:34:32] that. You'd want to have agreements in
place uh with a local uh mun
[1:34:37] municipality, nearby municipality,
perhaps the county, although we're not
[1:34:40] involved in fire, but local
municipalities. You would want to have
[1:34:44] you want to be able to address that
because we cannot we do not want a
[1:34:48] large-scale facility uh going up in
flames and we just no one wants that. So
[1:34:54] you you'd want to address that. Now
security issue. Uh these are generally
[1:35:00] very large buildings uh with thick
cement walls.
[1:35:05] Um
you know you're not going to you're not
[1:35:08] going to climb in through the window of
one of these things. So
[1:35:12] that not quite as much there.
[1:35:18] » Supervisor Oki.
Does anybody else on the blue team want
[1:35:22] to talk that hasn't?
Okay. Would
[1:35:26] » have more question.
>> Would would the sand plants areas be a
[1:35:31] good place for a data center?
>> Uh again, I'm not a construction person.
[1:35:36] Uh depends on how how deep you could put
footings, I suppose, but I don't see why
[1:35:41] not. Um, I mean they got access
transportation access and I mean I
[1:35:47] as a layman would seem to me it'd be a
pretty good spot. You get it's generally
[1:35:52] flat land and
and and also you need the infrastructure
[1:35:57] the like the interstates having that's
why the forest and D county and St. Croy
[1:36:03] County are getting some of the hyper
ones because they have the the
[1:36:07] underground wiring and infrastructure
there which I don't think we have in
[1:36:11] Baron. So, we aren't going to get the
the biggest of the biggest. We'd
[1:36:15] probably get something in the mid-range
if we wanted some.
[1:36:19] » Yeah. Access to the to the to power to
to power and the grid would be
[1:36:24] incredibly important. Uh and then how
far if you know direct access, how far
[1:36:29] it has to be built out, uh which is a
cost factor to the data center, uh would
[1:36:34] be an issue that that the data center or
the developer would have to consider.
[1:36:39] Um, of course with a sand plant, uh, I'm
not sure what power needs that they had
[1:36:44] previously, but I'm guessing they were
notable. So, there may be significant
[1:36:49] power already piped into a sand area.
Um, but yeah, power would be a a major
[1:36:56] uh a major issue. And then whether it's
an evaporative system with a sand plant
[1:37:02] or whether it's a dry cooling or a
closed loop, uh, that would be another
[1:37:05] issue. Those are the probably probably
some of the
[1:37:10] some of the major issues that would be
under consideration for a developer
[1:37:13] » because we have had well just so
everybody knows the NDA is a
[1:37:17] non-disclosure agreement. Um, but we
have had the JDAs with the solar farms
[1:37:21] and stuff and so we've got some
experience with doing that and to to
[1:37:26] that's why I want everybody's to get as
knowledgeable as they can today in
[1:37:31] between the 29th whatever because like
they said the leverage is going to go
[1:37:36] down and if we want proper we want a
data center if we did now now is the
[1:37:42] time to be looking at it because we do
have some leverage and we do have I
[1:37:46] think a chance here. Now, I'm not saying
don't put in the paper Louis says let's
[1:37:50] get data center here. But, you know,
anyway,
[1:37:54] » well, the chairman makes a very good
point uh referencing uh a a JDA, joint
[1:38:00] development agreement. So if you were
going to go forward whether it's a data
[1:38:04] center or some other um venture uh that
that required um public sector
[1:38:12] infrastructure or public sector
interests
[1:38:16] um you you would want to consider a
joint development agreement. In other
[1:38:20] words uh an agreement where some of your
needs and concerns would be addressed.
[1:38:27] Um and that is where Atollis Law comes
in. I mean, they have lots of experience
[1:38:31] in this area. And that is where you'd
want to address some of the the the fire
[1:38:37] EMS issues, uh maybe some of the
transportation issues, uh maybe the uh
[1:38:43] the what's going to happen to the
building down the road issues. Um you
[1:38:48] know, things of that sort. Um I mean for
example one of the issues that it's
[1:38:53] talked about in some other counties uh
what happens if the when when the the
[1:38:59] owner of the data center or user of the
data center in some cases the the user
[1:39:03] may not be the owner. It might be a
developer but what happens when the uh
[1:39:07] user of the data center is no longer no
longer needs it. 25 years from now there
[1:39:13] is some other technology and we no
longer use data centers. We use lasers
[1:39:18] and the satellites. Okay, what happens
then? We just have a great big empty
[1:39:23] building. Well, we have that now
sometimes with a Walmart or we had it
[1:39:27] with Kmart stores for a while, but okay,
it's this is not something new, but we
[1:39:31] have that big large building. So, we
want to think about that in advance.
[1:39:35] Well, we might say in a joint
development agreement, uh you know, when
[1:39:38] you're building this data center, um why
don't you build some cutouts for uh
[1:39:44] large equipment just in case 20 years
from now you vacate? Um maybe we'll buy
[1:39:50] the building for a dollar and uh house
all of our large uh county trucks in
[1:39:56] that building with the sand or the salt.
Okay. They might say, "Forget it." No,
[1:40:04] they might say, "Okay, that's easy to do
in the outset. Be hard to do after the
[1:40:09] fact, but it's easy to do when we think
about it in advance." Okay. They might
[1:40:14] say, "Oh, that's an easy one. Sure. What
else do you need?" Maybe that's the part
[1:40:17] of the conversation. That that all
happens in a joint development
[1:40:20] agreement. So, if you talk early, that's
part of that leverage issue. uh if you
[1:40:25] were in a conversation uh to try to
address some of your concerns or needs
[1:40:29] or desires that you anticipate down the
road.
[1:40:34] » All right. So, blue team, you're done.
Back. No, we're No, no, we're we have to
[1:40:39] go back. We're going to do this.
>> Going to go back to the red team. So,
[1:40:43] questions. Any more questions from the
red team?
[1:40:45] » Um we're going to go down the road. Cook
efforts. Ellison
[1:40:49] » just quickly I did uh so Microsoft
[clears throat]
[1:40:52] their campus that's what they call it uh
they're going to they cover up about 600
[1:40:57] acres uh building the footprint of the
building now of all of them is only 88
[1:41:02] acres total those six are going to buy
up about 4,800 acres um much like your
[1:41:08] airports if they're starting to do the
Rice Lake airport if you go out there
[1:41:11] there's crop land inside that fence and
that's part of their buffering uh
[1:41:15] capacity so you're not losing all of
that and um to the data center itself. I
[1:41:21] mean, that's just part of their
buffering process and ensuring that you
[1:41:24] can't hear them. So,
>> thank you, Supervisor Cook. Supervisor
[1:41:28] efforts, you have the floor.
>> Um yeah, my question is to the Dun
[1:41:34] County representative. Um, I don't know
if I'm the only one, but you said that
[1:41:40] or it was stated that the property tax
doesn't apply because
[1:41:46] it's not attached to the land. I don't
understand that.
[1:41:50] » So, the one I looked up and the one
that's being proposed in my township,
[1:41:53] Dun County, is a modular data center.
Prefab buildings kind of look a lot like
[1:41:59] » Yeah, it looks a lot like a shipping
container.
[1:42:02] » Okay.
>> And it's on leased land. So, you know,
[1:42:06] then it's the rules are different for
assessing, but there's one in Dun County
[1:42:10] that I looked up and they're not paying
any taxes. So, I don't know why I
[1:42:14] haven't asked an assessor.
>> And is that is that supposed to be a
[1:42:17] data center or like a Bitcoin?
>> Uh, the one being pitched in our
[1:42:22] township is very small and it's I think
it's AI.
[1:42:28] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Supervisor Ellison, you have the floor.
[1:42:32] Uh, yes. Uh given the recent activity
for building data centers, they must be
[1:42:36] quite profitable. Do you know how
profitable they are?
[1:42:40] » Uh very very
>> very very very profitable. Yeah. So
[1:42:45] that's this goes to the leverage and
joint development agreement. Uh money is
[1:42:51] not the issue. So yes that it's I mean
you don't want to ask make unreasonable
[1:42:57] asks but um [clears throat]
on the other that from the data centers
[1:43:04] you this money is not the issue.
>> Supervisor Anderson you have the floor.
[1:43:08] » Um yes thank you. Um so is it true only
the mega data centers need dedicated the
[1:43:16] dedicated longhaul data lines which we
talked about that's correct.
[1:43:21] Uh, say that again.
>> Okay. So, dedicated longhaul data lines
[1:43:27] is what the big mega
ones need. Is that correct?
[1:43:33] » Um, dedicated longhaul data lines. Um,
well, all of the data centers need
[1:43:40] dedicated
>> like they're big like this
[1:43:44] » the power lines.
>> Um,
[1:43:46] » she's talking about internet. They they
will all need
[1:43:49] » dedicated let's call them you know large
internet pipes let's call it they all
[1:43:55] need they will all need that large or
small
[1:43:58] » okay so even this okay so even the
smaller ones yeah um don't need that is
[1:44:03] that correct and so we're not close
enough to those big ones that would come
[1:44:08] to Baron County and there's there's been
no interest in in even asking for a data
[1:44:14] center in Baron County so far I think
that's what I remember hearing
[1:44:18] Um, well, I don't know about that. I I
don't know. I But I would say, um, given
[1:44:24] what I know of the landscape,
um, pretty much anywhere in Wisconsin,
[1:44:30] if a local community said, uh, I'm
interested in a potential data center,
[1:44:38] you will have people knocking on your
door if that's what you said.
[1:44:41] » Okay. Um now can can infrastructure be
built out to uh create a large enough
[1:44:47] pipe? Sure. Um I mean at a cost and but
that would have to be evaluated um to
[1:44:55] determine um but mostly the
conversations that are occurring are
[1:44:59] communities saying we don't want a data
center. So that that's currently the
[1:45:03] conversation. So we never get to the um
people don't get to the convers to the
[1:45:08] point of the conversation of well how
much would it cost to build out for the
[1:45:11] infrastructure uh power andor um let's
call it the internet pipe that's not
[1:45:16] really the right term but for our
conversation never get to that point.
[1:45:23] » Anyone else on the red team white team?
Supervisor Klick you have the floor.
[1:45:29] So, if we look at the footprint from
what most of these are looking at,
[1:45:33] they're 300-,600 acres. If there was an
interest of putting one in Baron County,
[1:45:39] I'm guessing it would be someplace
that's in a township near one of our
[1:45:43] communities. Could you explain how the
process and the negotiation would happen
[1:45:49] between the community, the municipality,
the county, the land owner who owns the
[1:45:56] property and has the rights to it and
the developer? And who who takes charge
[1:46:00] on that? How how do all those issues and
negotiations take place?
[1:46:07] » Well,
there is no single way that this goes.
[1:46:14] If you described a way, it's happened um
in in this country. but how it might go.
[1:46:22] Um
[1:46:26] I I think you're right that um if there
was going to be a data center in Baron
[1:46:31] County, it [clears throat] is likely to
be within the jurisdiction of a
[1:46:35] municipality
uh or an extr territorial zoning of a
[1:46:39] municipality or in a township adjacent
to a municipality. That is the most
[1:46:45] likely the most likely scenario.
Um there be uh
[1:46:52] the the the assessment by a developer
would be whether there is a political
[1:46:59] climate to be uh for that to happen.
That might happen with u the
[1:47:05] municipality with the township andor the
county uh more likely with the economic
[1:47:11] development corp of one of those three
jurisdictions or all of them. uh
[1:47:17] communicating with the industry and if
that is the case then conversations
[1:47:22] would begin. Uh and those conversations
would entail um what are our potential
[1:47:28] uh locations? Uh your local economic
development experts would likely know of
[1:47:35] potential locations or at least find out
where they are. Uh there'd be some site
[1:47:39] visits. There'd be some conversations
about potential uh lease or acquisition
[1:47:46] of property. Uh and and then there'd be
some conversations about well uh how
[1:47:53] could this possibly come together? Where
is the power? What's the power
[1:47:57] situation? What kind of a system might
we have if water is needed? Does the
[1:48:02] municipal uh water system can it handle
whatever they wish to put in place?
[1:48:08] uh is the grid system sufficient? Uh all
of those types of conversations would be
[1:48:14] ongoing. Uh if it all if it all came if
if all the answers to all the questions
[1:48:20] were yes andor maybe then it would be a
neg negotiations might start with one or
[1:48:26] all of the local jurisdictions
about what would be necessary to get the
[1:48:31] proper approvals permits zoning whatever
might be necessary to have this uh
[1:48:38] begin.
Uh and then lots lot I'm going through
[1:48:42] the high level steps. There's a hundred
steps in between all of these. Uh there
[1:48:46] probably have to be some sort of public
relations campaign uh to let people know
[1:48:51] what this let the citizens know what
this would mean. Uh to allay any fears
[1:48:55] that they might have to uh address any
concerns they might that the citizens
[1:49:00] might have to talk with local businesses
about what it might mean for them. uh
[1:49:05] the city, town, village, and/or county
uh would want to talk with the developer
[1:49:11] andor perhaps the final operator of the
of the center uh about what desires they
[1:49:16] might have in a joint development
agreement. Uh all headed up by likely
[1:49:20] the economic development coordinator or
or director. Uh all of those things
[1:49:26] would be happening
somewhat uh uh cons
[1:49:31] uh one by one, but maybe some of them at
the same time and eventually uh you
[1:49:38] might have a a a a beginning of a
project uh and being built and then
[1:49:45] then it would happen. But it would
that's one way it might occur. It might
[1:49:51] uh how would it not occur?
a developer coming in, never talking to
[1:49:56] the local jurisdictions, going out and
acquiring property, uh, or a leaseold on
[1:50:01] a property, and then saying to the
locals, here's what we're going to do.
[1:50:05] It's highly unlikely that that would
ever happen. That would be that's a
[1:50:09] recipe for disaster. So, it's that's not
how it would happen. So, I would say
[1:50:14] talking to economic development,
your your economic development people is
[1:50:18] most likely how it would happen. Start
at least.
[1:50:23] Other questions?
Supervisor Layman.
[1:50:26] » Um just one more comment. Mr. Ellison's
uh comment about the amount of money um
[1:50:32] that these people possess. Um it it's a
unique uh business platform where where
[1:50:40] the internet broadband companies uh lay
the footwork, the fiber to the home and
[1:50:46] transmit all of this data uh basically
uh for a set fee for us to to to
[1:50:53] maintain that line. But uh the big
companies uh Netflix pays nothing.
[1:51:01] They're broadcasting this through our
system
[1:51:05] and they do not uh we do not charge them
or have no way of charging them. And
[1:51:12] then what happens is is that they start
streaming people start streaming uh more
[1:51:18] than what the capacity is. So, we're
upping our speeds and it's kind of a
[1:51:23] burden on the broadband companies and
these people are are untaxed and are
[1:51:29] just raping people at at money that you
can't even imagine.
[1:51:34] Thank you.
[1:51:38] Other questions?
All right. So, now we're back to the
[1:51:42] blue team. Supervisor Wentz,
>> I still have many more, but I'll I'll
[1:51:48] choose one. Um you've talked about um
property taxes and whether or not
[1:51:53] they're paid by the
companies. Um what are are there data
[1:52:00] about the effects of data center
development on property values
[1:52:06] for homeowners and businesses in the
vicinity of the data center?
[1:52:11] » Uh I do not have that with me but I can
look into that. Um, again, they they are
[1:52:18] likely to be um they're not going to be
in residential areas, so they're going
[1:52:22] to be in an industrial type area or out
by it themselves somewhere. But, uh, let
[1:52:30] me look into that uh, and see if we can
find any data,
[1:52:34] no pun intended, uh, data on, um, on
what, um, if there's been any impact on
[1:52:41] data centers. If it's not in Wisconsin,
let me see if I can find something. uh
[1:52:45] around the rest of the country. By the
way, that reminds me the the packet of
[1:52:48] information put together in your packet
was really exceptional. I mean, I read
[1:52:53] everything. It was really really well
done. You get some Niko material here.
[1:52:57] Uh stuff from um um your economic
development expert. Uh really good
[1:53:03] stuff. Really well done.
>> Supervisor Shreel.
[1:53:08] » Yeah. Just quick comment on taxes. I
watched PBS here autumn three weeks ago
[1:53:13] about the Port Washington and there was
a quite a significant savings on
[1:53:18] property tax for the people in that
area. So I don't know how much or
[1:53:22] anything but
we had a question I'd like to answer
[1:53:26] that I used AI again according to this
uh let me read the entire text here.
[1:53:31] Lowden County, Virginia, widely known as
the data data center alley, is home to
[1:53:37] approximately 150 to 200 operational
data centers with dozens more in
[1:53:42] planning or construction stages. Point
number one, footprint. Over 40, excuse
[1:53:48] me, over 53 million square feet of data
center spaces operating or under
[1:53:53] development. Point number two, internet
traffic. Roughly 30% to 70% of all
[1:53:59] global internet traffic passes through
facilities in Lowden County every day.
[1:54:04] Power capacity installed capacity stands
at around 4 gaww
[1:54:11] it says in parenthesis with another 2 to
three gigawatts in the development
[1:54:14] pipeline. If you watched the uh video
that I sent to you from Wharton School
[1:54:20] of Business, they did say that 100 I
believe it's sorry, I think it's 90% of
[1:54:25] all data centers in the United States of
America are located in six counties.
[1:54:30] So, going back to the blue team, if
there aren't any questions, I'll go over
[1:54:33] to red. Supervisor Vaughn, you have the
floor.
[1:54:37] » Thank you. Um, back to your recipe for
disaster about coming in without telling
[1:54:41] anybody. Do you think that would hold
true for unzoneed towns because there's
[1:54:44] really no regulation there to stop?
>> Yeah, I I um I mean you never want to
[1:54:50] say never, but uh I think it'd be a huge
mistake uh for especially in today's
[1:54:56] environment. Um to not talk with the
local officials. So I I would be very
[1:55:01] surprised if that were to occur. Um it
could it certainly could. you might get
[1:55:06] a rogue developer that is trying to
force, you know, force their way, but uh
[1:55:12] given to the environment today, it's the
quickest way to get uh to create public
[1:55:17] opposition. So, I it would just it'd be
it'd be foolish. It could be done, but
[1:55:23] it'd be foolish.
>> Supervisor Oki, just for information,
[1:55:27] Dave Armstrong had prior commitment
today. He could not be here otherwise he
[1:55:31] would have. He's already compiled a lot
of information. He wanted me to say he's
[1:55:37] not pro, he's not con, he's he's trying
to provide information and help us out
[1:55:42] and in the future he definitely will be.
So, he he's gathered a lot of
[1:55:45] information and he's he's pretty up to
speed on what's going on.
[1:55:49] » Well, Dave is one of the smartest guys
in Madison and you are lucky to have him
[1:55:53] as your economic development guy. Um,
and he put together some really, really
[1:55:58] good information. uh he's just I mean
right down the middle and good
[1:56:04] information uh that people can rely on
to make a decision.
[1:56:08] » Red team.
>> Um just another comment. Um so someone
[1:56:13] asked about the values Laden County
which is home of the largest nearly 200
[1:56:17] data centers. is there has been studies
there but again these data centers uh
[1:56:21] are older uh and newer uh but they found
in their study of over if you're within
[1:56:27] a half a mile you may take up to a 2.8%
8% decrease in the value of your home.
[1:56:32] However, recent studies showing with the
new data centers, very little if any
[1:56:39] uh AI uh if you you spend the extra 20
bucks or 100 bucks, you get a lot more.
[1:56:43] » This is crazy. More money you spend, the
better answer you get.
[1:56:46] » It's true.
>> Supervisor Gors, you have the floor. Uh
[1:56:50] yeah, I would like to know if there's um
do these centers have to be above ground
[1:56:56] all the time or this can they be
underground a little bit or at all or
[1:57:02] » Well, that's a good question. I've never
gotten that question before. Uh I don't
[1:57:07] [clears throat] think that they could be
below ground. I'd have to I'd have to
[1:57:10] look into that, but I've never heard of
one being below ground. Uh,
[1:57:15] [clears throat]
[1:57:17] » that's a that's an interesting question.
I That's
[1:57:22] » I give you credit that that's a brand
new one. That's good. That's good. You
[1:57:25] get a star, Jim. Good job.
>> It'll be less sightly. That's one thing.
[1:57:28] I get a star. Oh, man. [laughter]
>> Do you want me to call Sally? You don't
[1:57:33] want to start running a chainsaw here,
Supervisor Gors. Okay.
[1:57:36] » No.
>> All right. Anybody else on on the white
[1:57:39] team?
>> Blue team. Supervisor Wentz, I know
[1:57:43] you've had I know you've got more
questions.
[1:57:51] Th this might be very nuts and bolts,
but in terms of a county's approach or
[1:57:58] its leverage, I suppose in
um you know being able to weigh in on
[1:58:04] usages, things like that,
does the would a county have the
[1:58:11] authority or the ability to specify
certain design considerations? It's like
[1:58:17] if you're going to put your data center
here, it has to be, you know, have the
[1:58:22] dry, you know, whatever it is, the open
or closed loop cooling system or you
[1:58:27] have to, you know, make sure that, you
know, light pollution isn't spread. Can
[1:58:33] we specify those things or a county, not
necessarily Baron, but can a county do
[1:58:40] that?
>> Well, that's a it's a good question.
[1:58:42] This is going to be a Rebecca question.
Um but there's a it's a fine line right
[1:58:48] between creating the structure and
framework within which uh an industry, a
[1:58:56] business or an individual can conduct
their affairs
[1:59:00] and specifically
uh telling someone exactly how they're
[1:59:05] going to live their life there. That's a
fine line. Now we also have uh it's very
[1:59:11] very common. It's everywhere in this
state. Conditional use permit, right?
[1:59:15] Very specific. So that's a Rebecca
question which she will address. Um I
[1:59:22] suspect there there are some things that
we can do. Um now you can ask for
[1:59:29] anything, but can you
can you make it can you can you can you
[1:59:36] place conditions on exactly what you
want? Um there's going to be that's
[1:59:43] going to be a limit that Rebecca can
perhaps address that. I'm not I'm not
[1:59:47] even sure if she has the answer today,
but we'll we'll see. It's a good
[1:59:50] question. No, I mean you if you if you
say I mean here's one. Let me give you a
[1:59:55] a ridiculous example. Uh you can have
your you can have your business, but you
[2:00:00] have to make sure that all the employees
get 17 minute breaks every day at one
[2:00:04] o'clock. You can't do that. Now you're
telling people how to run their
[2:00:07] business. or you can uh build your uh
development, but I want everybody in the
[2:00:12] development to have dinner at 6:15.
Well, that's ridiculous. You can't tell
[2:00:16] people how to live their life or how to
run their business, but can you do
[2:00:21] certain things?
Certain things. Where is that line?
[2:00:26] That's that's for an attorney. All
right. To the assembly. I'm going to
[2:00:31] step out here. Um we've been at this an
hour and 45 minutes, and I'm wondering
[2:00:35] if a break is necessary. So, I really
have a two-part question for the board.
[2:00:39] Are we are we close to a few more
questions and then a break or are we at
[2:00:43] a break? What what would be the
preference? I don't want to cut anybody
[2:00:45] off because that's what we have no time
limit. That's what that's the beauty of
[2:00:49] a committee the whole we're going to
stay here till we get the questions
[2:00:52] answered. But [laughter] do we need to
make our bladders gladder or what do we
[2:00:55] need to do here?
[2:00:59] » Question. Okay. So, I'm going to go
around the room. Questions from the red
[2:01:01] team.
>> I I I'm just use one more comment. So,
[2:01:05] Quick Trip, uh, for the people that are
concerned about them just popping in.
[2:01:09] Quick just doesn't show up and
build, they did a lot of study and
[2:01:14] access. These these data centers
already know if there's a site in Baron
[2:01:19] County that best suits their needs
because of the cost of construction,
[2:01:23] lines, um, and placement. Just like
solar farms, solar farms that come to
[2:01:29] the county had to be cited by MYSO. They
already knew, um, those spots. So that
[2:01:34] it's the same thing. If you have um a
sand mine, a substation that's not being
[2:01:40] used, probably likely that that's that's
going to be looked at far before they
[2:01:44] come and knock on your door and you're
in the middle of nowhere.
[2:01:48] » Okay. Any other comments from the red
team?
[2:01:52] White,
blue.
[2:01:57] I'm going to state that I received no
other questions from the assembly. So, I
[2:02:01] am going to with the permission all
those in favor of taking a do you want a
[2:02:05] 10 or 15 minute break?
>> 10.
[2:02:07] » 10. All those in favor of a 10-minute
break from the board of supervisors,
[2:02:11] raise your right hand. We're going to
take a 10-minute break. My clock says
[2:02:15] 2:44. We will start promptly at
>> in 10 minutes. [laughter]
[2:11:49] pull the Baron County Board of
Supervisors back into session.
[2:11:55] Give me just a minute to get my files
organized here. We have completed
[2:12:00] section 6 uh C uh sorry 6C1 with Mr.
Okonnell finishing his presentation and
[2:12:08] I'll declare that the questions from the
board have ceased for him. So at this
[2:12:12] time I am going to introduce
uh attorney Rebecca Roker from Atlas Law
[2:12:18] and let her give her presentation on the
potential ordinance that would be the uh
[2:12:23] underly the moratorum. So with that,
Rebecca, welcome and uh the floor is
[2:12:28] yours.
>> Thank you so much. Uh good afternoon
[2:12:31] everyone again. I'm Rebecca Roker from
Atollis Law. Um you're probably more
[2:12:35] familiar with my partner Andy Phillips
who's uh also general counsel for WCA.
[2:12:39] So it's great to be here in person and
to see all of you. Um I'm going to
[2:12:44] piggyback off of um Mark's presentation
a little bit. um you know he started
[2:12:48] with uh this is um you know this is the
hot topic uh not only in the community
[2:12:55] but also on a statewide and nationwide
basis. Um and given that data centers
[2:13:02] are such a new hot topic,
we as lawyers have to view the
[2:13:07] regulation of data centers through the
old lens of existing law. And so some of
[2:13:14] the challenges that Andy and I and our
partners at Atollis face is how do we
[2:13:19] » [clears throat]
>> utilize existing law to regulate these
[2:13:23] things data centers that are so new and
present very unique impacts and I'm
[2:13:30] going to get in more into more detail on
how and why the county may want to
[2:13:35] regulate those those particular impacts.
Um but I think it's from a from a big
[2:13:41] picture standpoint um you know don't
underestimate the challenge that each of
[2:13:46] you are facing in working within your
statutory authority as a county and
[2:13:52] using that statutory authority to
address a very new and emergent issue.
[2:13:59] Um, so again to piggyback on something
Mark said, um, in terms of when you are
[2:14:06] crafting your ordinances,
um, and the no picking of winners or
[2:14:11] losers, um, I love that phrase because
it's a really nice way to explain the
[2:14:17] concept of equal protection and the
constitutional protections of of the
[2:14:23] constitutional protection of due process
under the law and equal protection under
[2:14:28] the law. And so when you're developing
your ordinances or when you have any
[2:14:33] matter come before you or the zoning
committee or any body um you have to
[2:14:39] ensure that due process and equal
protection are granted to that
[2:14:44] applicant. And so when you're developing
your uh ordinances or whatever um if you
[2:14:51] decide to regulate data centers um keep
that in mind that we have to ensure that
[2:14:57] not only are you operating in your
statutory authority but you're also
[2:15:01] operating in such a way that passes
constitutional muster.
[2:15:07] Um again to piggy back off of what Mark
said. Thank you Mark. Um the talking
[2:15:13] about some of the pros and cons, there's
a few of the the pros and cons that Mark
[2:15:19] hit on that um really underscore some of
the particular legal issues. Um and as
[2:15:25] I've said [clears throat] before and
Andy and I always joke like how many
[2:15:28] times do we say our statutory authority
under chapter 59? Probably at least 10
[2:15:33] times when we do a presentation. Or you
can't do anything that you don't have
[2:15:38] authority to do. That's another one we
say all the time. Um, but the same
[2:15:42] applies here for data center regulation
or any regulation that the county may
[2:15:47] want to adopt. You can only do what what
chapter 59 or the other ways in the law
[2:15:54] allows you to do. That's where counties
are different than other um governmental
[2:15:59] bodies. And so when we're looking at the
pros and the cons, the first question
[2:16:04] becomes what can you regulate? And so a
lot of the issues that Mark touched on
[2:16:10] such as noise, dust, impact on roads,
potential size, those fall within the
[2:16:19] county's statutory authority under
chapter 5969, which is your zoning
[2:16:24] authority. But things like water usage
or power usage um or those more um you
[2:16:33] know uh I will say largecale impacts um
those you do not have statutory
[2:16:40] authority to regulate. Now, we can look
to other resources, particularly as
[2:16:45] we're talking about a local agreement,
to build in protections for those
[2:16:50] issues. But again, always keep in mind
that when you're developing an
[2:16:53] ordinance, you have to look at it
through the lens of what [clears throat]
[2:16:57] can we do as a county under our
statutory authority.
[2:17:03] Okay. Um, couple other items on the pros
and cons. I want to touch on the NDA um
[2:17:10] and the non-disclosure agreements that
um certainly come under public scrutiny
[2:17:15] because we as a governmental body have
an obligation for open and transparent
[2:17:20] government. Um that's built into our
state law and it is uh really codified
[2:17:27] in chapter 19 which includes our open
records law and our public records law.
[2:17:33] Um and so in the event that the county
were to proceed with a development um
[2:17:43] and the developer asked that the county
enter into an NDA, I think you could,
[2:17:50] but it would still be subject to public
records. Um, if a developer said, uh,
[2:17:56] no, it's accepted under chapter 19 and
therefore the county can't disclose it,
[2:18:02] that is a whole other set of issues, um,
in determining whether that exception to
[2:18:08] the obligation to disclose a public
record would apply. And I think that I
[2:18:14] can speak for Andy. If you were uh ever
asked to enter into an NDA and it's
[2:18:18] something that you wanted to uh pursue
that we would demand that a a developer
[2:18:26] indemnify the county for any cost of
having to process or defend their
[2:18:32] decisions under the public records law.
You know that is absolutely something
[2:18:37] that becomes imperative. And again as to
you know what Mark indicated NDAs are
[2:18:42] very important in the private sector.
They can be very important in the public
[2:18:47] sector also you know particularly if
we're talking about negotiating from the
[2:18:52] county's position in making sure that
negotiations are protecting the county.
[2:18:57] But again we always have to view that
through the lens of what state law
[2:19:01] requires for public records. Um, so if
you hear of a community or a
[2:19:05] municipality that is taking a a bright
line like, "Nope, we can't disclose
[2:19:11] there." There there most likely is some
other public records issue. Um, and or
[2:19:16] there at least should be that public
records analysis at play.
[2:19:21] All right. Um, let's see. Oh, very
briefly on um the the lawsuits that Mark
[2:19:27] mentioned, um the uh the tariff matter
uh involving Wii Energies and the PSC
[2:19:36] order. Um that is currently in front of
the Ozaki County Circuit Court. Um
[2:19:42] because it's an appeal of a PSC
decision, it has not gone far yet. I
[2:19:48] would assume that it's going to, you
know, continue through the process. Um,
[2:19:52] and then with respect to the Mount
Pleasant case, that's a that's a
[2:19:56] fascinating case from a legal
perspective because it was brought by
[2:20:00] three property owners as a private
nuisance and negligence claim directly
[2:20:06] against Microsoft. And so that is very
much in the early stages as well. So we
[2:20:12] don't know um how this this case is
going to play out. And really the issue
[2:20:17] is does a private land owner have a
private cause of action against a
[2:20:22] company for impacts of a development on
their quality of life and does that rise
[2:20:28] to the level of negligence um that is
compensible under the law. So that's a
[2:20:33] that's a very fascinating case.
Fortunately uh the county uh the
[2:20:39] counties at in that area um have not
been named in that lawsuit. I don't
[2:20:44] think uh well we'll wait to see if they
are. There's no indication at this point
[2:20:48] that they will be named um because it is
that private cause of action um on
[2:20:54] behalf of the landowner against the
developer.
[2:20:57] Um and that case interestingly is in uh
federal court. It was brought in the
[2:21:02] seventh circuit um the eastern district
of Wisconsin of the seventh circuit. So
[2:21:07] we will keep monitoring that that case
uh as well.
[2:21:12] Um, so all of those all of these issues
really lead up to the question of what
[2:21:19] can Baron County do? You we talked about
the statutory authority requirement. We
[2:21:25] talked about um, you know, some of the
issues that arise and the pros and cons.
[2:21:30] So what can you do? Again, I think this
is time number four. You can only do
[2:21:36] what the statutes allow you to do. you
can only do what you have authorization
[2:21:40] to do under chapter 59 or any anywhere
else under the law. Um and so what you
[2:21:47] um have in front of you um or what was
in the agenda packet is that temporary
[2:21:54] moratorum on data center development. Um
and there are certain restrictions in
[2:22:03] the Wisconsin statutes on whether a
county may adopt a moratorum. Um
[2:22:09] development moratorum are addressed in
uh chapter 66 66.102
[2:22:17] that interestingly accepts counties out.
So we have a different playbook that we
[2:22:23] have to follow. Chapter 59 5969 I
believe it's sub4 allows the county to
[2:22:30] adopt a moratorum if there are very uh
limited if it falls within very limited
[2:22:38] parameters. Um and the the question or
comment was made before that a moratorum
[2:22:45] may be appropriate but it absolutely
should not be a tool to either kick the
[2:22:51] can down the road and decide to regulate
later or to stop a development. And
[2:22:58] that's what um we see at times on the
statewide level where a municipality um
[2:23:05] will adopt a moratorum in an attempt to
get a developer to look elsewhere. And
[2:23:12] that's not specifically with respect to
data centers. We see that with other
[2:23:16] types of development as well. But as
legal counsel we would advise you that
[2:23:21] your um your any moratorum has to be
very narrowly defined um and has to fall
[2:23:28] within your authority under chapter 59.
So what you have in front of you is just
[2:23:35] that. Um so we um Andy and I developed
this uh draft moratorum using your
[2:23:42] statute authority statutory authority in
chapter 59 is the baseline and again
[2:23:48] because we can only regulate what we can
under chapter 59. It is a zoning
[2:23:52] ordinance. Um and so therefore it would
apply in areas of Baron County that are
[2:24:00] unincorporated.
um and have uh have are subject to
[2:24:05] county zoning. Um so that's one really
important distinction to make that
[2:24:11] should Baron County adopt a data center
ordinance, it is not going to be a
[2:24:18] countywide ordinance per se, it is only
going to apply in those unincorporated
[2:24:23] areas because again it's being adopted
under your zoning authority.
[2:24:28] Um the second reason that's really
important is because the county can or
[2:24:34] can only adopt a moratorum for a zoning
matter. [snorts] There may be other um
[2:24:40] outlying uh exceptions to that rule. But
again because your authority to adopt a
[2:24:46] moratorum comes from 5969 which is your
zoning authority. Um, from our
[2:24:52] perspective, the easiest rule of thumb
is a moratorum should only be adopted
[2:24:57] for a zoning regulation.
And so the purpose of adopting a
[2:25:02] moratorum is really to put a pause to do
the investigation, do the research, do
[2:25:11] the development and the drafting of a
particular ordinance that meets the
[2:25:16] policy goals of the county. And based on
the information in the packet, it's
[2:25:22] clear that the county has already done a
lot of that research and a lot of that
[2:25:27] information gathering and even a lot of
the investigation.
[2:25:31] But I think that that is what tees up
your development moratorum for a uh a
[2:25:38] very strong position because you're not
coming out and saying, you know what,
[2:25:42] we're starting 100% fresh. We've got to
put a two-year time limit on this. We
[2:25:46] don't know anything. The fact that
you've already researched these issues
[2:25:49] and you know what issues need to be
addressed in greater detail I think
[2:25:54] really works in the county's benefit um
and would be if I had to legally defend
[2:25:59] your development moratorium ordinance um
that would be that would definitely be
[2:26:03] in the the pro category.
Um one other quick final point on the uh
[2:26:10] moratorum that is an ordinance and so
under the law um a a moratorum must be
[2:26:18] adopted by a county as an ordinance. So
if you hear um you know other
[2:26:24] municipalities or counties throughout
the state that are taking action on the
[2:26:30] development on a development moratorum
or a data center moratorum and they're
[2:26:35] doing it by resolution uh they did not
consult uh ais first um because for a
[2:26:41] county you must do it by resolution. We
think that that's a very clear
[2:26:45] definitive answer in the law. Um,
let's see. Trying to see. Oh, I also
[2:26:53] wanted to touch on two other issues. I
might be backpedaling a little bit um to
[2:26:58] to circle back to what Mark talked
about, but these are two issues that you
[2:27:02] can also address within the time frame
of your development moratorium on data
[2:27:06] centers is the um the particular issues
of citing that you do have authority to
[2:27:15] address under chapter 59. One of them
being crop land and prime agricultural
[2:27:21] lands being used for development. Now,
there are some statewide statutory
[2:27:26] restrictions that preempt county
regulation. Um, but certainly the zoning
[2:27:33] categories of, you know, the prime egg
land or the relationship between or any
[2:27:38] agreements between the county and dad
cap for those enterprise areas. Those
[2:27:42] are certainly things that you can
explore um as you develop an ordinance,
[2:27:47] a data center regulatory ordinance. Um
and then again, other items that are are
[2:27:53] ripe for uh county regulation, things
like uh noise suppression, um
[2:27:59] landscaping, BMS, um dust, light
pollution. Um we often get the question
[2:28:06] of the size and the magnitude of some of
these projects. Well, how can we I'll
[2:28:13] just say uh no one from Baron County has
asked this question, but um how can we
[2:28:18] stop a you know this this million square
foot project? And it's really hard to
[2:28:26] define a data center in such a way that
we're talking just about a data center.
[2:28:32] And it comes back to the winning of or
the choosing of winners and losers
[2:28:37] because in a lot of ways what's how is a
data center different than an Amazon
[2:28:42] distribution center? Yes, many of the
there may be the factors of water
[2:28:48] consumption or water usage, energy
consumption, um things of that nature.
[2:28:53] But keep in mind those don't fall within
the county's regulatory authority. So,
[2:28:58] we have to look to what is it that
you're going to be regulating, how and
[2:29:04] what basis you have for those those
whats um and then how we're going to
[2:29:08] build those into an ordinance.
Um then with respect to local
[2:29:14] agreements, local agreements are really
a fantastic tool for the county um
[2:29:20] because a you have statutory authority
to do them. Um and uh they really truly
[2:29:26] are an armslength agreement. So when you
are negotiating with a data center
[2:29:32] developer or a solar developer or other
developers, you can ask for things that
[2:29:41] you may not have explicit statutory
authority to regulate say within a
[2:29:46] conditional use process. So for example
requiring an environmental study as we
[2:29:52] is the question was answered or asked
before either it um an environmental
[2:29:57] assessment or an uh environmental impact
statement. Those are the the threshold
[2:30:03] um environmental test used at the state
level whenever there is a significant
[2:30:07] state action.
You could potentially build into your
[2:30:12] local agreement that an environmental
assessment must be completed. Um, now
[2:30:19] again, that's an armslength negotiation.
So, the developers may say, "No, go
[2:30:23] pound sand. We're not doing that for the
county." Um, but that is certainly
[2:30:27] something that you could ask for within
the context of that local agreement. Um,
[2:30:33] other items that are that Andy and I
feel are so important to flush out in
[2:30:38] those local agreements are things like
emergency response particularly, you
[2:30:43] know, in your community when you have um
a lot of voluntary volunteer um first
[2:30:48] responders. So those types of issues um
training uh and then again roads. What
[2:30:55] are the impact on the roads? Not only
for the well, mainly for the
[2:30:59] construction equipment coming in. You've
got all these construction workers
[2:31:03] coming in. What are what's the impact on
the roads or the traffic patterns? Um
[2:31:08] items like that may be addressed in a
local agreement. Um, and then you know
[2:31:14] just again it can be uh I don't want to
say a wish list because it certainly um
[2:31:19] should be reasonable but there are
things that um counties have asked for
[2:31:25] within the context of a development
agreement that you know off right away
[2:31:30] seem like kind of absurd. Um, for
example, a county and local first
[2:31:35] responders may need a specific fire
truck to be able to go up to a certain
[2:31:41] level to suppress um a fire that's
created or that that the technology is
[2:31:47] required in order to properly suppress
that fire. They need a really high boom
[2:31:53] lift. And so that's something in a local
agreement that was worked in that the
[2:31:59] developer paid for. Again, it off the
top of my head, it sounds it sounds
[2:32:04] pretty extreme like, hey, we get a new,
you know, emergency response truck. Um,
[2:32:10] but again, because it was rooted in a
justifiable basis, they needed to have
[2:32:15] that specialized equipment in order to
perform their duty, um, i.e., um,
[2:32:21] provide emergency responses.
Last item I wanted to touch on and of
[2:32:26] course and we'll open it up to
questions. um with respect to the
[2:32:30] property tax issue um and the um the you
know if a a data center developer
[2:32:38] um from what I what I understand just
based on the comments it sounds like the
[2:32:43] data center would structure its
transaction in such a way that it would
[2:32:47] just lease the property um and then
therefore it wouldn't own the real
[2:32:53] property and so what would be taxed is
the improvement movement that's built on
[2:33:00] that footprint. Um there was a recent
change under act 12 um in the statutes
[2:33:06] that modified the taxation of certain
personal properties um buildings,
[2:33:13] fixtures and improvements that were
previously taxed as personal property.
[2:33:18] Now they are taxed as real property. And
the the basis that um that I've
[2:33:24] encountered this is with respect to
airport hangers. um because those sit on
[2:33:29] top of the land and then they are
technically or they were categorized for
[2:33:33] tax purposes as personal property. Well,
now they're being taxed as part of the
[2:33:39] real property. So Andy has been very
involved with um many groups on uh
[2:33:45] throughout the state for trailer
legislation to fix some of the errors
[2:33:50] and some of the complications in that
bill. Uh but I just wanted you to be
[2:33:54] aware of that that um the cons if there
is a you know a threshold concern of we
[2:34:00] don't want to have a data center come to
Baron County because of this tax issue.
[2:34:04] There may be several other elements that
need to be looked at in play and I'm not
[2:34:08] familiar with the the Dunn County
example. Um so I can't speak to that but
[2:34:13] again just wanted to to mention Act 12
and uh the updates to the statutes on
[2:34:19] those property tax assessment issues.
All right.
[2:34:24] » You ready for questions?
>> Yeah. Absolutely.
[2:34:26] » So, we'll go we'll go this way. We'll go
blue team first. You get to ask Rebecca
[2:34:31] questions. Uh we'll start with the blue
team. Supervisor Turkot.
[2:34:37] » Uh again, thank you for uh taking the
time to come up here. Uh my question
[2:34:42] would be to municipalities,
townships that already have
[2:34:48] buildings of magnitude on them that um
could be a commercial farm. Um can you
[2:34:56] put a moratorum to stop something else?
And the other example would be Lakeland
[2:35:02] Township where the steel plant put up a
ginormous building.
[2:35:09] Um can Can you now limit it or is it are
they a
[2:35:16] Are you picking winners and losers?
>> Um, excuse me. [clears throat] I might
[2:35:21] have to kick it over to your corporation
council if I lost my voice. Excuse me.
[2:35:25] I'm so sorry. Um, can you help me
understand the question a little bit
[2:35:29] better? Is it um whether the county
could adopt
[2:35:35] a moratorum on redevelopment of certain
properties like certain commercial
[2:35:41] properties
>> if they're looking at putting um well
[2:35:44] some of the townships like Lakeland
Township I believe passed a
[2:35:50] moratorum
and um but they've allowed uh you know a
[2:35:56] few years ago um a a steel plant to put
up a like a I think a 200,000 square
[2:36:03] foot
manufacturing plant. Are are you now
[2:36:07] being able to put a moratorum in to to
stifle something else?
[2:36:13] » Um, okay. I think I understand your
question better. That's a great
[2:36:16] question. Excuse [clears throat] me. And
I can't speak, you know, as obviously as
[2:36:20] legal counsel for the town and I haven't
reviewed the town of Lakeland's
[2:36:24] moratorum ordinance. Um but what I can
say is your or your development
[2:36:31] moratorum ordinance should be structured
in such a way that it's very specific.
[2:36:37] So if I were to put my hat on as council
for the town and we had that specific
[2:36:43] parcel at issue, I would if you call
that parcel out, it would have to be in
[2:36:50] a very particularized manner. So you are
not specifically targeting that parcel
[2:36:57] and you'd have to do some creative
drafting which you know legally
[2:37:01] appropriate creative drafting to really
hone in on what the specific issue is
[2:37:07] that needs to be further investigated
and further studied during that term of
[2:37:12] the moratorum.
[2:37:17] » Other questions? Supervisor Oki.
Right now there's four townships that
[2:37:24] have set up moratoriums
and uh two that are not part of Baron
[2:37:29] County zoning. That would be the town of
Lakeland and the town of Dover. There
[2:37:34] are two other ones that are part of
county zoning. Town of Maple Plane and
[2:37:38] town of Doyle. How if we passed an
moratorum like you have outlined here,
[2:37:45] what is the effect on the un you know
basically unzone versus the zoned towns?
[2:37:51] » That is a great question. Um and to put
it simply it the moratorum would not
[2:37:59] apply to the two towns that are not
subject to county zoning. So, I think
[2:38:04] you said Lakeland and
Dover,
[2:38:08] » which Supervisor Vaughn happens to be
the chair of the town of Dover.
[2:38:13] » Awesome. [snorts] Um, so because those
two townships have not opted into county
[2:38:19] zoning under 5969,
because this development moratorum is a
[2:38:26] zoning ordinance, it would not apply in
those two townships. Now if there are
[2:38:33] other townships that have adopted
moratoria on data centers
[2:38:39] whether or how the structure of the
application um really depends on the
[2:38:44] terms of what their moratorum says and I
I apologize I haven't reviewed those so
[2:38:50] I can't speak to those um but again if
the county were to proceed um with a
[2:38:57] moratorum as as set forth you know in
your agenda packet
[2:39:02] again, it would apply um into those
unincorporated areas that are subject to
[2:39:07] county zoning. Um and so even if one of
those townships had adopted their own
[2:39:16] ortorium, um the counties would still
apply.
[2:39:26] » Other questions?
Supervisor Fawn,
[2:39:31] » you um reference the county's authority
to regulate often. Does do you know is
[2:39:37] the town's authority to regulate similar
items or are there differences in what
[2:39:42] they can regulate?
>> Um
[2:39:45] there are generally there are
differences um because well and it it
[2:39:49] also depends too on whether a town has
adopted uh village zoning authority
[2:39:55] under chapter 60. Um so
if a town has adopted village authority
[2:40:02] their their zoning powers um immediately
become broader um and they fall within
[2:40:08] that township then falls within the
municipal structure and municipal
[2:40:12] authority for zoning which is broader
than a county's authority. Certainly
[2:40:19] » other questions.
Seeing and hearing none we'll proceed on
[2:40:24] to the white team.
[2:40:30] Seeing and hearing none, over to the red
team up. Supervisor Fowler,
[2:40:35] » thank you for being here and appreciate
all the information. Just a question
[2:40:38] about the NDAs. Is there um a way a
company then could work with the um
[2:40:46] economic development corporation for the
in the county that's not regulated by
[2:40:53] the county? Did they work through the
NDAs that way and then have the
[2:40:58] » Oh, I see. So, essentially get around
the public records correct law.
[2:41:02] » Correct.
>> Um potentially um certain entities
[2:41:09] um depending on how they are structured.
So, certain economic development
[2:41:13] entities may also be subject to public
records. Um so, for the first question
[2:41:18] would be is that entity um subject to
chapter 19? um and therefore has to
[2:41:25] disclose public records. Let's say for
argument's sake it's not. Um so then no
[2:41:31] it that entity would not have to
disclose those documents as a public
[2:41:36] record.
But then I would question um what to
[2:41:42] what extent would those documents be
pertaining to the county's work? Because
[2:41:47] if the county was going to be taking
action obviously those documents would
[2:41:52] need to come to the county at some
point. Um so maybe early in the process
[2:41:57] there could be some avoidance of uh
public records disclosure but certainly
[2:42:03] um you know moving forward the county
would have to comply.
[2:42:10] » Other questions.
[2:42:14] » Supervisor Cook.
>> Yes you are.
[2:42:21] So the moratorum the one that
>> please use your mic please let me turn
[2:42:25] it on please. uh in the moratorum of
this temporary moratorum that is
[2:42:30] presented here.
>> Um and in reading that um the zoning
[2:42:34] committee
would then two questions really the why
[2:42:39] would it not come out of the zoning
committee but if the moratorum is passed
[2:42:44] um the zoning committee then goes to
work on a full-fledged ordinance
[2:42:49] pertaining to data centers actually
being built. Um so ye yes um if the
[2:42:56] moratorum is adopted uh the whomever is
you know the appointed authorities
[2:43:01] within this ordinance are then directed
by the county board to do this deeper
[2:43:07] investigate investigatory work. So it
could be addressing all of the issues
[2:43:13] that you know many have raised via
questions today. Um it may be looking at
[2:43:19] other sample ordinances. what do we want
to use from other communities, other
[2:43:24] counties that have developed um data
center regulatory ordinances? Um and so
[2:43:32] that's really oftentimes where the the
bulk the meat of the work is done.
[2:43:37] Oftentimes it's through the um zoning
and planning administrator um and then
[2:43:42] working with your county administrator
as like a a team and then it's presented
[2:43:48] um to a zoning committee. Um, so it will
will certainly go through or the issue
[2:43:54] of whether to adopt and with an eye
pointing towards adopting some
[2:43:59] regulation there. There's a whole lot of
work that goes into that.
[2:44:02] » And would those um public meetings be
held through the zoning or through the
[2:44:07] county board?
>> Um, those I believe would be the Well,
[2:44:12] you could structure it any way you want
to,
[2:44:14] » but typically they would go through the
zoning committee. Yeah, because the
[2:44:17] zoning committee is really going to be
the, you know, the the committee of
[2:44:21] jurisdiction, if you will, because it's
going to be a zoning ordinance. So, it
[2:44:25] would absolutely be appropriate to have
them at the zoning committee.
[2:44:29] » May I jump in and get clarification
because he's Supervisor Cook has kind of
[2:44:32] hit on something. So, is this I'm going
to rephrase it from you that board
[2:44:36] supervisor that either talked to me or
called me. So, is this a two-step
[2:44:40] process? And I'm trying to rephrase
questions. So is it appropriate Rebecca
[2:44:46] the potentially the moratorum is enacted
upon by the county board on October 19th
[2:44:52] that sets forth the the breathing space.
So then is the mortori mor moratorum as
[2:44:57] you've printed and presented in the
packet could be voted upon
[2:45:01] on October 19th then that gives the
zoning committee the time to work on the
[2:45:05] details and then they bring back what
goes into the zoning ordinance. Is that
[2:45:10] correct or is it what is that wrong?
>> No, that's that's correct from the um
[2:45:17] steps 2 3 4 process.
>> Okay.
[2:45:20] » Would you have the development moratorum
come from your zoning committee as a
[2:45:26] recommendation then go to the county
board in October?
[2:45:30] » I'm not getting that sense from the
board members that have talked to me.
[2:45:33] they'd like to do it where okay we'll
put the moratorum in place then refer it
[2:45:37] to the zoning committee and give them
the moratorum time to work on whatever
[2:45:41] and then bring back all their work back
to the county board that allows the our
[2:45:45] new land services director to be
involved to do the research to publicly
[2:45:49] post the public mo meeting notices so
people can come talk to that group of
[2:45:53] five that way we're building we're
building to get to the endgame which is
[2:45:58] you know some of the controls you're
talking about that's the feedback I've
[2:46:01] gotten from the three or four boards
that thought to me
[2:46:04] » and that is absolutely what I would
recommend for that that endgame, you
[2:46:08] know, that end point
>> ordinance. Absolutely.
[2:46:11] » Reser Cook, does that help kind of
explain some of the questions you
[2:46:14] » Well, I understand the process. I just
want to clarify that should be the
[2:46:18] process
>> that
[2:46:21] once you have a [clears throat] need uh
for an ordinance. Yes.
[2:46:27] » Oh, can I ask something about that? You
know,
[2:46:32] » right? Let's just let's just let
Supervisor Cook has the floor. I'm just
[2:46:36] asking Supervisor Cook.
>> No, no. I I would I would give him
[2:46:39] leeway.
>> All right. You'll yield? Yes. Okay.
[2:46:42] Supervisor Cook, excuse me. Supervisor
Cook is yielding the floor to Supervisor
[2:46:47] Oki. So, I'm going to recognize
Supervisor Oki at this time.
[2:46:50] » Okay. So, you know, again, I'm trying to
get us as supervisors educated and do
[2:46:56] what's right for Baron County. Today was
a very good start for that. I believe
[2:47:00] the 29th is and any work we want to do
on our own. Um but if it does come to
[2:47:07] let's just say I want to wait at least
until October's board meeting which I
[2:47:12] think you said is whatever
>> October 19th this built room.
[2:47:16] » If if you know we'll be voting let's
just say on whether we want to have a
[2:47:20] moratorum or not. There may be some of
us that say, "Geez, based on the
[2:47:24] information, I think we ought to explore
data centers." Then there may be
[2:47:29] somebody that said, "I don't ever want a
data center here, but I got to be
[2:47:34] careful how we structure the moratorium
that really realizing it's just
[2:47:38] temporary." And then there may be the
ones in the middle that say, "Yeah,
[2:47:42] let's really do the moratorium to do do
factf finding more than we have
[2:47:46] already." Does it? And it has to go
through zoning. But does it have to
[2:47:52] could there be a zoning looking at it
and an ad hoc committee to do all the
[2:47:57] factf finding or does it have to be the
zoning?
[2:48:00] » No, you can certainly have if if you
wanted to have a specific ad hoc
[2:48:04] committee overseeing that investigation
um you could do so. I I'm just thinking
[2:48:11] just and please don't take anything
personal anybody but you know Mike Judy
[2:48:17] Ellie local emergency planning committer
he might be very helpful on this Fran
[2:48:23] who knows this stuff
Randy it might come to you know I I like
[2:48:28] your intelligence but you know you are
the board president of of a utility
[2:48:33] there could be somebody saying you
shouldn't be on that you know so I I'm
[2:48:37] just I I'm I'm just throwing this out.
Please don't, you know, these are things
[2:48:41] I I want to just talk about here when we
get down the road. So, I'm just giving
[2:48:47] you things to think about.
>> Okay, Supervisor Cook, you have the
[2:48:50] floor.
>> I wish I went to relinquish any time to
[2:48:53] chairman.
>> Well, sir, the floor is yours, sir.
[2:48:56] » No, I'm good till the next round.
>> Okay, so he's yielded the floor,
[2:49:00] supervisor. So on on that point I mean
when you consider the moratorum
[2:49:07] uh that second part is important the the
second part being and then we're going
[2:49:13] to examine um you know do the work on
what happens after the moratorum because
[2:49:19] if you don't do the second part you
don't have a moratorum you just have a
[2:49:23] ban
>> right
[2:49:24] » and that's much different and that's
where we run into potential trouble. So
[2:49:29] that second part really is important. So
if you're going to if you're going to do
[2:49:33] that that you need to do the second part
too.
[2:49:38] » In fact the first part gives you time to
do the second part. It's the only reason
[2:49:42] that I would even consider doing it.
Right. But yeah
[2:49:45] » and supervisor Cook and in in reference
to your comments to me before we have
[2:49:49] not had public comment yet. It's
becumbent upon ourselves to hear from
[2:49:53] the public before we put this moratorum
in place.
[2:49:56] » I agree. Supervisor Anderson, you have
the floor.
[2:49:59] » I do. Um, thank you. Um, you mentioned
something about land that's leased.
[2:50:06] » So, would the property owner still be
responsible for property taxes if it's
[2:50:11] leased?
>> Sure.
[2:50:14] » Yes. Um,
uh, depending on the terms of the lease
[2:50:21] agreement. Um but a an owner certainly
is still responsible for uh or to ensure
[2:50:28] that property taxes are paid. Whether
that obligation is shifted to you know
[2:50:33] the lei um it depends on the structure
of the the lease agreement
[2:50:38] » and then would it change what what it
falls into like a different because
[2:50:44] there the data center is there now it's
not a land would it change the
[2:50:50] » what would be right like the
>> classification
[2:50:53] » right yes
>> I would yes I would think so
[2:50:55] » okay thanks
>> yeah that it's it's I mean it's very
[2:50:58] simple way it's kind of like in
apartment building, the apartment
[2:51:02] building owner owes property taxes. I
mean, a person who leases the apartment,
[2:51:07] it's paid in their rent, but if they
move out or don't pay the rent,
[2:51:10] apartment building owner still has to
pay taxes. Kind of the same thing.
[2:51:14] » All right, supervisor efforts, you have
the floor.
[2:51:20] But then unless the um law is changed,
if if it's the trailers or the the
[2:51:28] shipping containers that have the that's
the improvement on it, there wouldn't be
[2:51:33] taxes paid on the improvements, just the
land. No. Um right now,
[2:51:38] » if it's leased,
>> well, right now under act 12, if it is a
[2:51:44] meets the definition of a building
improvement or fixture. So again, I I
[2:51:48] like the airport hanger example. You
have a structure that is placed on a
[2:51:54] footprint, but that footprint of land is
leased. That structure, i.e. the airport
[2:52:01] hanger, is then taxed as real property.
>> Okay. So again, I you know, depending on
[2:52:08] what the data center development looks
like, um I would anticipate that
[2:52:14] whatever is built is going to certainly
meet the definition of a building
[2:52:18] improvement
um or fixture. Okay.
[2:52:21] » So it would fall within those parameters
of act 12.
[2:52:24] » A question if I may interrupt for Mr.
Okonnell and and you Rebecca, let's
[2:52:29] let's fair it out. This question I think
as keeps coming up. If we follow this
[2:52:33] two-step process, the moratorum, and
then we refer it, would it not incumbent
[2:52:38] be upon the subcommittee of this
assigned to to get somebody from the
[2:52:41] department of revenue and say, tell us
what happens. Do we are we going to get
[2:52:45] revenue if it's just lease hold or it's
movable? Tell us that.
[2:52:49] » Absolutely.
>> And explain that to us because that
[2:52:51] should come back to the county board
ultimately because they set the budget.
[2:52:55] It's not a committee that sets the
budget. The county board sets correct
[2:52:58] under 6590. It's the board sets the
budget. They should know that because
[2:53:02] you could have 10 movable data centers
and you get zero. Why would a board vote
[2:53:08] for that,
>> right?
[2:53:09] » Okay.
>> No, absolutely. That's the kind of issue
[2:53:11] that should be talked about during the
investigation period.
[2:53:14] » I agree. If you move down that path,
then you definitely want to get a
[2:53:18] definitive answer from the Department of
Revenue.
[2:53:21] » And and I I think that's where just to
clarify and so the board knows, I think
[2:53:25] that's where
>> [clears throat]
[2:53:26] » uh our new land services director, Mr.
Nicole, myself could work together or if
[2:53:30] we have a finance director Con are that
is that then not incumbent upon staff to
[2:53:35] research and present back then the
committee makes recommendations and
[2:53:39] decisions.
>> Yes. And I would if you're asking me.
[2:53:45] » Yeah. Yes. Yes. And from where I would
also suggest that if you were in
[2:53:50] conversations
um
[2:53:54] it would your economic development
person let's say would be saying to
[2:53:58] potential developers these are the kinds
of data centers we're interested in. not
[2:54:05] the mobile type develop uh mo um data
center that does not provide benefit to
[2:54:11] the local jurisdictions but a permanent
data center that provides long-term
[2:54:17] » uh corporate good corporate citizen
benefits to the citizens of Baron Baron
[2:54:22] County
>> and employment in that
[2:54:23] » and employment that that would be want
to make that quite clear.
[2:54:26] » All right, we're still on the red group.
So, Supervisor Cook, let me go to
[2:54:29] Supervisor Gors and then I'll come back
to you. Supervisor Gors. Uh yeah. Um if
[2:54:34] there um a moratorum is voted on or put
in place, is there a set time limit or
[2:54:41] or do we sit make the time limit?
>> Right now in the draft there is a time
[2:54:47] limit.
>> Okay.
[2:54:49] » Yes, there are two. There's three
different spots. Supervisor Gors, I
[2:54:53] modified the first one to be until 12:31
at 2027. That's feedback that I received
[2:54:58] from board members saying I don't like 9
months. I don't think that's enough time
[2:55:02] and some board members have said to me I
want a definite date when it ends. Now
[2:55:06] it can be extended because is it 9
months from enactment? Is it 9 months
[2:55:10] plus 10 days for publication? That's why
I inserted and so we could modify you
[2:55:15] know we could whatever time the the
lawyers recommend I guess but that's why
[2:55:20] I did that.
>> And I would say from a recommendation
[2:55:23] standpoint um certainly be realistic um
but keep it as concise as possible i.e.
[2:55:30] be as short as possible. But again,
you've got the work that you've already
[2:55:35] identified today. Um, and the work that
staff has already identified as
[2:55:40] potential issues, you know, as a road
map of the work that
[2:55:44] would be done during your moratorum. So,
I think, you know, that the date that
[2:55:50] um, Mr. French put out um, is is legally
defensible. Um, but again, be very
[2:55:57] careful if you go longer. Um, because
then a court may construe that as simply
[2:56:03] an attempt to a ban, a two-year ban
rather than, um, a true good faith
[2:56:09] investigation of how to develop an
ordinance.
[2:56:12] » Supervisor Cook, you had another
question.
[2:56:14] » Um, well, again, uh, our temporary
moratorium, if we choose to go that
[2:56:18] route, should only be given us the time
to actually put together a moratorum. If
[2:56:22] that takes more than
>> an ordinance, excuse me, zoning
[2:56:26] ordinance, then that we can have a
discussion about. But just to the point
[2:56:30] of this purchase to put it to dead to
bed, uh, all six have are purchased by
[2:56:36] the company Mount Pleasant. Um, the
village sold 350 acres, the initial 350
[2:56:42] acres of Microsoft for $50 million. I
think that had an impact on their
[2:56:46] property taxes in that village. uh and
they have subsequently purchased another
[2:56:51] 2,000 acres around that site. So, they
are going to pay property taxes. Um
[2:56:57] unless you create some type of district
that allows them not to for a certain
[2:57:01] period of time, they are in fact going
to purchase the land. Um these trailers,
[2:57:06] um these little cargo containers, China
boxes if you will, um are not not quote
[2:57:11] unquote the data centers we're talking
about. And and in fact, some moratoriums
[2:57:16] actually um
if you exceed a certain size, the
[2:57:21] moratorum applies. Um I think Madison's,
if I looked at it right, if it was under
[2:57:26] 20,000 square feet, then it was not
impacted, which is about the size of
[2:57:31] Oaklair that they're talking about um
the data center in Oaklair.
[2:57:34] » All right, we're going to go on. Go
ahead.
[2:57:36] » Can I just speak to that? Um just
briefly the the restriction on a
[2:57:42] development moratorum that's in chapter
66 again that doesn't apply to counties
[2:57:47] and so the rules that a [clears throat]
city village town may adopt for a
[2:57:53] development moratorum do not apply to
the county um to the extent that you are
[2:58:00] not referenced in chapter 66. Um however
again you do have the authority in
[2:58:05] chapter 59 and then there's very
specific parameters of how you may adopt
[2:58:12] that moratorum and so those are built
into this draft that you have in front
[2:58:17] of you. U but again it's a it's a
delicate balance between the statutory
[2:58:22] authority statutory restrictions and
then the case law that accompanies those
[2:58:26] statutes.
>> All right we're going to bump over to
[2:58:28] the blue team. Any questions? All right,
Supervisor Wel,
[2:58:34] » um, I'm going to go back to the leverage
issue. Uh, at what point you said that
[2:58:39] you're looking at 2027 December until
2027?
[2:58:45] um what is the shortest amount of time
that we would need to do that sort of
[2:58:50] investigating that we need to do the
factf finding so that we can still have
[2:58:55] advantage like you said before people
start just welcoming these things in and
[2:59:00] then we're out
and maybe that question is for you Jeff
[2:59:04] or Louie
>> that's a question for Ben how long would
[2:59:08] we have to have a public notice even to
turn I mean how much time do you want
[2:59:13] Would you please come to a mic to maybe
use Supervisor Cousix and mic and turn
[2:59:18] that on please?
[2:59:24] [clears throat]
>> So yeah on once the the wording on the
[2:59:28] moratorum is is determined that it's
sufficient we would need it would be a
[2:59:34] class two notification. We would need
the the two weeks we would need two
[2:59:37] weeks of notice in in local papers to
let the constituents know and have the
[2:59:42] public hearing. So,
as we sit right now, um, October
[2:59:49] would be pushing it, but I think we
could we could get it done.
[2:59:53] » I guess to clarify, I meant the
moratorum being shorter like six or nine
[2:59:57] months.
>> Certainly, we could do it to do shorter.
[2:59:59] We if he's willing to kind of drop some
of his other work. I mean, he's new in
[3:00:03] his job and he's learning his job, you
know, and how fast can that committee I
[3:00:07] mean, if that committee would want to
meet every week on a Tuesday and go chug
[3:00:11] through it, hooray. And I can assure you
I have I have done my due diligence. I'm
[3:00:16] » oh
>> for near every day I'm I'm I'm digging
[3:00:19] through recent updates on on data
centers and where most uh communities
[3:00:25] stand within the state. I've dug into
Pennsylvania. It's a hot topic issue in
[3:00:29] P Pennsylvania as well. And I know we've
discussed West Virginia. Um they're
[3:00:35] diving in head first. I mean they want
all the data center revenue they can
[3:00:39] get. So it's a tight rope that we walk
here um in terms of restricting versus
[3:00:43] protecting our constituents.
>> Right.
[3:00:46] » If we do enact a moratorum that's good
through December 31st of 2027
[3:00:52] and we come to an agreement before that
once we enact an ordinance against or
[3:00:58] not against but regulating data centers
we can drop the moratorium.
[3:01:02] » I see. Okay. Thank you. I can partially
uh answer that or maybe add some
[3:01:07] information for you, Supervisor Wel. Um
on Friday, last week, uh the Wisconsin
[3:01:14] Counties Association Board of Directors
did take up this issue and passed a um a
[3:01:21] template ordinance
uh for consideration by counties, which
[3:01:26] will be released tomorrow. So, that'll
be available within 24 hours. lots of
[3:01:33] flexibility in that ordinance. This is
not a recommendation. It is a a template
[3:01:40] for counties to start if they wanted to
move forward. They don't have to. They
[3:01:45] may not want to. That's fine. But we had
so many requests from counties for a a
[3:01:50] starting place. So we worked with all
sorts of parties on this issue and a
[3:01:56] tollless law to put together a template
uh ordinance that that people like Ben
[3:02:04] can start with and and committees could
start with as they move about this
[3:02:08] process. That might be uh that's I guess
some kind of an answer to say um it may
[3:02:16] not take as long as you might think uh
if you have a starting place so you
[3:02:21] don't have to do a lot of work in
advance but maybe it's not really fill
[3:02:25] in the blank but it's address certain
issues because there's many options to
[3:02:30] to look at but that might be a place
that you could start.
[3:02:35] If I can just follow up, when you when
it that that template is released, you
[3:02:40] will see a whole lot of fill in the
blanks. Um, and that is that's
[3:02:45] intentional because it is to be
customized by each county. Um, but
[3:02:50] again, it as Mark said, it's it's
intended to be a starting point. Um, and
[3:02:56] then certainly all of the unique topics
that we've talked about today, um, those
[3:03:01] can be added to the template and you can
really customize it and make it your
[3:03:06] own. Um, but it again, it's just
intended to give counties a jump start
[3:03:10] and a a launching off point um, for all
of those particular considerations and
[3:03:16] again those considerations that do
indeed fall within your authority.
[3:03:21] » Supervisor Vaughn, you ask a question,
I'll you have the you have the floor.
[3:03:25] Thank you. Uh so in the packet where
we're looking at the actual moratorum
[3:03:30] um on page three it has two different
dates. It has the ninemonth and then it
[3:03:34] has the one that we mentioned at the end
of 2027. So is that for two different
[3:03:39] things? Are we just not sure on the time
frame?
[3:03:42] » I did I want to I I did that as a
placeholder because of all the
[3:03:46] information I was getting before talking
to Cherokei about having this meeting. I
[3:03:50] had to I did that supervisor vaugh so
that I reminded myself if I got this
[3:03:54] question why I put that in there and I
put it in there because I've been asked
[3:03:59] is nine months too long? Is it too
short? And I've also had some people and
[3:04:04] citizens and supervisors say I'd rather
have a definitive date when it ends.
[3:04:09] That's that's it. That's why there's
three different in three different
[3:04:12] spots. It's two different places. That's
why I did that.
[3:04:16] You make it you can make a decision.
Absolutely.
[3:04:20] Faster is better with me, too. I just
didn't You know, Ben and I have been
[3:04:23] talking about this and we're just trying
to get you to a a date here. All right,
[3:04:28] blue team. Anything else?
[3:04:32] Supervisor Wentz?
>> Yeah, I'll take a stab at wording this
[3:04:36] so it makes sense. Um, is there a sense
of
[3:04:41] um [clears throat] whether or not some
of the town or village moratoriums are
[3:04:48] intended more to ban data center
development or to allow time as we've
[3:04:54] been talking about here at the county
level to develop their own local
[3:04:58] ordinances. I I mean I I really don't
have an idea of whether or not Lakeland
[3:05:03] or Doyle or Dover or wherever
are trying to ban data centers outright
[3:05:09] by imposing moratoriums
or if they're doing the same thing we
[3:05:13] are or are expected to do.
>> It's it's both. It's both. I mean some
[3:05:18] are intended to provide breathing space
and time and others
[3:05:24] are trying to be clever and just say
moratorium but they what they really
[3:05:28] mean is ban. That's I mean then and
there are developers that are going to
[3:05:34] look at those and say we we never
intended to even talk with you anyway so
[3:05:39] they'll just it doesn't matter. But uh
if they did intend to
[3:05:45] uh there may be court issues uh because
you you you shouldn't be passing a
[3:05:49] moratorum if your intention is to ban
it. That's not good public policy and
[3:05:54] it's going to get you in trouble. So but
it the answer is both. And not just in
[3:05:58] Wisconsin, by the way. It's all over the
country. There have been uh public
[3:06:02] entities that have passed moratoria to
um to provide um time to think and
[3:06:08] breathing space. And there have been
those all over the country that have
[3:06:12] passed moratoriums to um just to ban it
and that will sometimes cause trouble,
[3:06:20] get them in trouble.
>> Rebecca, anything to add to that?
[3:06:23] » No.
>> Okay. Again, blue team, you're you're
[3:06:27] up. Any questions from any other member
of the blue team?
[3:06:33] Hearing none. White team questions
[3:06:39] hearing none. Red team questions.
Supervisor Cook, I see you raising your
[3:06:44] hand.
>> Oh, I hate to ask so many questions, but
[3:06:46] in this moratorum or excuse me, in our
zoning ordinance, then we that is where
[3:06:52] we would address things like water
consumption.
[3:06:59] » Well, water.
>> No. Well, when I say water for let me
[3:07:03] not water consumption the type of
cooling
[3:07:07] um that would that we would like for
example a closed loop or air
[3:07:14] can can
>> I would say just on a very high level
[3:07:19] that is not something that would be
appropriately incorporated into your
[3:07:24] zoning ordinance.
>> Okay. And those are the questions that I
[3:07:26] would have as a member of the zoning
committee
[3:07:28] » who I may not I may get thrown off
because
[3:07:32] » um
>> I I supply electricity to your home. Uh
[3:07:38] [laughter]
anyway, I I guess that's where I'm
[3:07:43] coming from is just what are the what
things can we look at in terms of you
[3:07:47] know obviously the impact on our roads
um those types of things who would who
[3:07:51] would pay for that? Obviously the I
think the utility in terms of 100% of
[3:07:55] the infrastructure cost that's already
going to be solved. That's not the but
[3:07:58] that's the questions or the types of
questions I would hope that we would be
[3:08:01] able to have a framework for the
ordinance that the zoning committee
[3:08:05] would draft.
>> Yeah. And to think of it, um, you know,
[3:08:10] I think as Mark alluded to, you know,
any other building, um, so if you had a,
[3:08:16] um, a Walmart development come forward,
what is it in your zoning code that you
[3:08:22] would be you would be applying? It would
be things the sighting factors, so size,
[3:08:28] noise, traffic, um you know, other other
impacts that fall under the zoning
[3:08:35] committee's authority. You'd be looking
at those same items to build into the
[3:08:40] data center regulatory ordinance. Um
things like water consumption or the the
[3:08:46] technology for
>> that they would use. Not necessarily how
[3:08:49] much they would use, but
>> yeah, that is something you could ask
[3:08:52] for in a local agreement. Um because
again a local agreement is a armslength
[3:08:58] transaction. Um and the developer may
say yeah we're going to have a closed
[3:09:03] loop and we're fine with that. The issue
becomes if they say no you can't
[3:09:09] prohibit the project from moving forward
because again you don't have statutory
[3:09:13] authority to regulate the type of water
system in the business.
[3:09:20] But again, within the context of the
local agreement, you can ask for that.
[3:09:27] You can ask for things that you may not
have statutory authority to ask for
[3:09:32] in a local agreement, which again is the
beauty of those local agreements.
[3:09:37] » I guess if I was going to put it in
plain English, um when you have
[3:09:41] authority to if it's something the
county has authority over, okay, you can
[3:09:45] put that in an ordinance, right? But if
it's if you're going to tell a a
[3:09:49] business or an individual how they're
going to run their business or run their
[3:09:55] life, you probably can't put that in an
ordinance. I mean, you can't tell
[3:09:59] somebody where they're going to put
their cash registers or that they can
[3:10:02] only use credit cards and not cash.
That's how they run their business. You
[3:10:05] can't tell them that. You can't tell
people when they're going to wake up in
[3:10:09] the morning or that they can't use alarm
clocks. I mean, that's how they run
[3:10:11] their life. You can't tell them that.
So, but if you if the the county has
[3:10:14] authority over it, fine. Then you can
put in an ordinance. But if it's
[3:10:19] something about how they run their
operation,
[3:10:22] that's outside of our ability.
>> Okay. Supervisor efforts.
[3:10:29] So going off the water issue, if we
can't regulate the technology that they
[3:10:35] use, so if there's waste water, we have
authority on how they get rid of it or
[3:10:42] what they do with it. Is that part of
the environmental study or
[3:10:46] um the assessment? Where does that come
in? So there's not like hot water being
[3:10:53] put wherever they want.
>> Yeah, that's a that's a good question.
[3:10:56] And that comes up um when there's a
non-closed loop or not not a um uh dry
[3:11:04] cooling method
>> when it's a uh evaporative method um the
[3:11:10] municipal water supply or water
treatment uh comes into play and the
[3:11:15] question there is does can the municipal
water treatment facility handle the
[3:11:19] volume of water
>> or if it's in a I'm sorry if it's in a
[3:11:23] township I mean we have wells we have
septic you know we have that sort of
[3:11:27] thing. We don't have water treatment. We
have you know
[3:11:31] » Yeah.
>> So
[3:11:33] » the question again will be can it can it
be handled and if it that that is
[3:11:38] definitely a question. Uh and so if it's
going to be in a non-municipal water
[3:11:43] treatment operation then there's going
to have to be some sort of water
[3:11:48] treatment probably on site that is
solely created for that data center
[3:11:54] operation.
Um if it's if it's if it's going to be
[3:11:59] um adjacent to a municipal
um governmental geographic boundary then
[3:12:05] there may be um infrastructure that
needs to be built to connect it to the
[3:12:10] water municipal waters um treatment
facility and then the question would be
[3:12:14] can the municipal water facility handle
it and that has to be worked out in
[3:12:18] advance. It's not simply you can't just
build the structure and then say uh
[3:12:24] municipality you have to handle it. I
don't care if you have enough capacity
[3:12:28] or not you have to handle it. That's not
how it works. Uh there there has to be
[3:12:32] an agreement that it can be handled. So
um that is not one of those where you
[3:12:38] know too bad for the municipality they
have to take care of. No, it has to be
[3:12:42] that has to be addressed in advance. If
it's uh outside of a municipal water
[3:12:47] treatment facility, there's going to
have to be a treatment facility on site.
[3:12:50] Or if it's a dry cooling, that's an
entirely different operation.
[3:12:55] Supervisor Patty Anderson, you have the
floor.
[3:12:58] » Do you have a question? Okay, we're done
with the red. We're we're back to blue.
[3:13:02] Blue team, you got a question.
Supervisor Turkot,
[3:13:07] » is there at some point where the DNR is
going to have someness if it's in a
[3:13:12] township for storm water retention?
I I would think with water discharging
[3:13:19] if it was the evaporation. So, I mean,
they're going to have a say in it when
[3:13:26] all is said and done.
>> Yes. Yeah. DNR is going to have
[3:13:30] something to say about it. Sure. Yeah.
There'll be likely some water permits of
[3:13:34] some sort. Yes.
>> Yep. Supervisor Oki, you have the floor.
[3:13:38] In the templates that WCA developed for
us to use and modify the local
[3:13:44] agreement, is that similar to the JDA
like we have in the solar farms. So
[3:13:49] that's where we could put in uh the type
of water cooling system we want. And if
[3:13:55] it didn't happen, we could get say no at
that point in time.
[3:14:00] » Um yes. So, the the local agreement
template um that was approved by the WCA
[3:14:07] board is exactly that. It's a template.
I will say it is based on Baron County's
[3:14:13] Maple Grove Solar. So, I always give
kudos to Baron County whenever I can
[3:14:18] because that was a um
that really became a a model project um
[3:14:25] for negotiation of of agreements. Um so
uh it was specifically intended to apply
[3:14:32] to renewable energy pro projects.
However, it can certainly be used um for
[3:14:40] a data center or even another large
scale um because it addresses impacts of
[3:14:46] a a larger scale project um but of
course needs to be um customized uh for
[3:14:54] whatever the project issue is. Okay.
Thanks.
[3:14:58] » All right, blue team. Any more
questions?
[3:15:02] White team questions? Supervisor Klick.
>> So,
[3:15:08] I guess I have two questions. You you
decide if you allow me to ask both of
[3:15:11] them. If um a site is proposed by
someone and it gets annexed into a
[3:15:19] municipality,
county ordinances would go away.
[3:15:24] Correct.
on that project
[3:15:28] » to the extent that the county doesn't
have inherent jurisdiction. So for
[3:15:33] example, Shorland County always has
Shorland jurisdiction. So Shorland
[3:15:37] ordinances would still apply.
>> But if it was annexed into a city,
[3:15:42] » then zoning would not
>> there's no zoning. A zoning ordinance
[3:15:45] that tries to limit
>> a data center might become null and void
[3:15:51] » because it's now in a municipality.
>> Correct. Okay. The other thought I have
[3:15:56] is is that as we have all different
opinions as 29 people and we all might
[3:16:03] want more things into a JDA or a joint
developers agreement or an NDA or
[3:16:08] whatever you want to call it.
Is the county in a spot where we can
[3:16:13] have a recommended things that we would
like to see in one of those because we
[3:16:19] may not be the ones negotiating the JDA.
it very well could be the municipality.
[3:16:26] So, I mean, instead of trying to tie it
all into an ordinance that really isn't
[3:16:30] legally allowable,
we can't really develop a a checklist
[3:16:36] that says, "No, any JDA has to have
this, has to have this, has to have
[3:16:40] this," because we might walk away from a
negotiation or get eliminated from a
[3:16:44] negotiation. But, can we have a a
suggested list from a county board?
[3:16:51] Yes, you could use the template that
they've developed that's going to be
[3:16:54] released in the next 24 hours. That
could be your that could be your
[3:16:57] checklist. I also got to say, Supervisor
Cusk, um I would the
[3:17:03] city administrators I worked with,
they'd be very excited for us to do some
[3:17:07] of the leg work for them and have a
model template ordinance for them
[3:17:10] because they're not going to have the
they're not going to want to uh take all
[3:17:15] the heat. You know, if we have something
that they can use, they'd probably be a
[3:17:18] lot more appreciative. And I believe we
can sometimes oppose annexation or write
[3:17:22] a letter against annexation, can't we? I
mean, if there's a specific purpose, if
[3:17:26] they're doing it to thwart our
ordinance, we should probably write a
[3:17:29] letter against the annexation.
>> There is an opportunity for you to
[3:17:34] object or be involved in that.
>> And if they put it in the tiff or tid,
[3:17:37] we can vote against the tiff. And
>> so there are some there are some ways to
[3:17:42] at least try. So m in the end is this is
the sighting of a facility of this sort
[3:17:51] um a county issue a city village or town
issue? It's more of a city village or
[3:17:58] town issue than it is a county issue.
That that is that is just the fact of
[3:18:03] the matter. But it would it behooves um
a developer to try to have a good
[3:18:10] relationship with all governing
jurisdictions
[3:18:15] um regardless of who's officially or
formally in charge. So um
[3:18:23] there might be an annexation. That's
true. Uh this the city might be the
[3:18:29] might be the lead on a on a particular
project. That may be true too. Um but a
[3:18:35] developer a smart developer will want to
have buyin from all the governing
[3:18:40] jurisdictions
uh to have peace and harmony to the
[3:18:45] extent possible with not only the
governing jurisdictions but with the
[3:18:49] citizenry of the area and how they will
how will they get that joint development
[3:18:55] agreement uh full explanation full
disclosure
[3:19:00] um transparency that's how they will get
So the the wise developers know that and
[3:19:08] I we're finding that out more and more
for with uh placements of data centers
[3:19:15] that have been successful. So I I would
say you will definitely have a seat at
[3:19:19] the table.
>> May I chime in? Rebecca, do you do you
[3:19:22] want to respond? I just thought
something else. Supervisor Gick asked a
[3:19:25] very good question. I would say to
supervisor Guslick that if what you
[3:19:29] hypothesize or hypothetically we'd have
we'd have control over the emergency
[3:19:34] response plan because we're going to be
the so that would have to go through the
[3:19:37] LEAPC. So we'd have some control there
and that's where we'd want to go back to
[3:19:41] Mr. Okonnell's comments that we'd want
buyin. We want that we want that
[3:19:45] developer to be a partner and if you
know and then if they're going to do
[3:19:48] mobile battery storage or they're going
to do something like that our our
[3:19:52] training for the local fire departments
then comes into place. So, yes, we may
[3:19:56] not get it on zoning, but we might get
it on ERP, which again goes back to
[3:20:01] charge on this road. I'd love to see us
have an ERP ordinance, too, someday
[3:20:04] because that gives us a little more
teeth. It's all these things building on
[3:20:08] one another. Well, I I I don't want to
open up another hour of conversation,
[3:20:12] but on battery energy storage systems,
we are in a we are in a conversation
[3:20:18] with the public service commission where
uh there is a I'm not sure if it's if
[3:20:23] you'd actually call it a difference of
opinion, but if battery en energy
[3:20:27] storage systems are on the same uh
geographic footprint as a as a energy
[3:20:36] generation
facility then clearly it's under the
[3:20:41] public service commission's
jurisdiction. But if it is separate from
[3:20:45] that then uh it is our opinion in the
opinion of to atlasist law that that is
[3:20:51] not under the jurisdiction of the public
service commission that falls under uh
[3:20:56] local government zoning and we have a a
case in Kenosha County where we are in
[3:21:02] conversation to sort to clarify this. So
that is uh a separate issue and to Mr.
[3:21:08] French's point we care an awful lot
about that. Uh now legislature may
[3:21:13] change that in the future and and public
service commission want might want
[3:21:17] jurisdiction but until the law is
changed uh to us it's quite clear uh
[3:21:23] that is not the jurisdiction of public
service commission but rather the
[3:21:26] jurisdiction of local governmental
entities. Uh and so we care about that
[3:21:31] element of of energy and battery storage
systems until such time as as something
[3:21:37] changes.
Very good. Other questions from white
[3:21:40] team members,
red team,
[3:21:45] I hear none. Blue team questions.
Back to white. Back to red. Okay. Any
[3:21:53] just want to make sure now any further
questions before we then get into the
[3:21:58] next kind of item of business here and
that's a rise and report which I'm going
[3:22:03] to if there's nothing so I will go back
then to Robert's rules of order. So
[3:22:07] exiting and reporting back to the
assembly. This is where the
[3:22:12] and it's in our it's in our agenda.
We've asked uh we're on 6E now. We've
[3:22:17] finished with 6D questions from board
members. a motion to rise and report.
[3:22:21] And this is a possible action item
because when we exit the committee of
[3:22:27] the whole,
the committee of the whole should report
[3:22:31] back to the assembly, which is the
county board, what you've discussed or
[3:22:36] more importantly, what's the action that
you would like to take.
[3:22:42] I am not I'm going to throw out one of
the there's many that could happen but
[3:22:47] here is one of the rise in reports that
could be stated could state that the
[3:22:52] Baron County Board of Supervisors
meeting as a committee of the whole
[3:22:55] recommends the moratorum ordinance on
data centers be placed upon the agenda
[3:23:00] for consideration at the October 19th
5:00 p.m. county board meeting. That
[3:23:04] would then put the moratorum in front of
the assembly which is the county board
[3:23:08] to vote up and down. It would allow
people to go to the meeting on the 29th
[3:23:13] and learn more. And also what's been
brought up and I'm going to reach out to
[3:23:17] the local electric co-op because there's
a very good question. This opened the
[3:23:20] door. Where's the power supply? I mean,
if the power supply if the if the power
[3:23:26] supply is here and we're it's here and
we're gener this is the maximum and
[3:23:31] we're using here, we don't have any
room. Explain to us from the local co-op
[3:23:35] standpoint representing most of Baron
County what that could mean. So that
[3:23:39] could be should be a question that
really in my opinion as county
[3:23:42] administrator should be answered on the
19th. So that's where we're at. Took a
[3:23:47] little took a little detour there. So
then once there's a rise and report we
[3:23:51] end uh then there is we reconvene. Mr.
Koki takes the chair. I somebody would
[3:23:58] read to him what the rise and report is
and then there'd be a motion to adopt
[3:24:03] that and then we adjourn. So, what's the
will of the the county board or the will
[3:24:07] of the of the committee the whole?
No, it's got to be a formal motion and
[3:24:13] it can be something else and it can be
amended.
[3:24:16] Well, I think Jeff, what you what you
read there in terms of coming out of um
[3:24:22] » committee the whole
>> committee as a whole uh and recommending
[3:24:26] that this be put on the agenda
um to be voted on up or down um gives us
[3:24:32] not only o until October, it gives us
September
[3:24:37] um to also have some discussion among
the board. Um, and it gives our I think
[3:24:44] it gives our zoning administrator uh a
little time to get some footed footing
[3:24:49] under him uh and his staff to to give us
an idea about how long uh it would take
[3:24:58] um to put a zoning ordinance together uh
if in fact it looks like that's the
[3:25:03] direction we're going to go. right now.
I mean, he has, in my opinion, he he has
[3:25:07] to do due diligence because he doesn't
know as if we were. I'm not saying we
[3:25:12] are, but anyway. So, I would make that
motion that [clears throat] you read as
[3:25:18] one of our options, the first one. Uh, I
would make that motion.
[3:25:22] » So, I will Supervisor Cook makes the
motion and I will read the whole thing.
[3:25:26] I would read what I would do, Supervisor
Cook, is I would read this sentence to
[3:25:30] Cherokei. Cherokei, the committee of the
whole has completed its work and reports
[3:25:35] the following period. The Baron County
Board of Supervisors meeting as a
[3:25:40] committee of the whole recommends the
moratorum ordinance on data centers be
[3:25:45] placed upon the agenda for consideration
at the October 19th 5:00 p.m. county
[3:25:49] board meeting. Is that your motion?
>> Yes,
[3:25:52] » there's a motion by Supervisor Cook. Is
there a second? Super. There's a second
[3:25:57] by Supervisor Patty Anderson. discussion
before we close out our committee of the
[3:26:03] whole.
[3:26:07] I hear no discussion. I hear no
amendments.
[3:26:14] All those in favor of the motion
proposed by Supervisor Cook, second by
[3:26:19] Supervisor Anderson, signify by saying
I. I.
[3:26:24] » Oppose. Same sign.
>> Yeah. Sorry.
[3:26:28] » Okay.
[3:26:36] One, two, three, four, five. Yes. So,
it' be 24 yes. I will state that it's 24
[3:26:45] yes and no and none opposed. Is that
good for your record? Yes. Okay. So,
[3:26:52] second. I would entertain a motion from
one of the board supervisor to come out
[3:26:57] of committee the whole and return to the
assembly as a county board. Supervisor
[3:27:00] Fowler, supervisor Heler makes the
motion. All those in favor signify by
[3:27:04] saying I.
>> I.
[3:27:06] » We are now back as a county board. Chair
Oki, you're in charge.
[3:27:10] » Just make one.
>> Yes, Mr. Okonnell. Hold it. Mr. Okonnell
[3:27:12] has asked to speak. Could I just make
one comment, Mr. Chairman?
[3:27:16] » Mr. Chairman.
>> Sure.
[3:27:17] » Okay. Uh just a I probably should have
made this in the committee of the whole
[3:27:22] I've been uh your staff person for a
long time. Um but I just wanted to
[3:27:28] comment that we've been here um just a
few hours talking about this issue. It
[3:27:34] has been incredibly respectful,
rational,
[3:27:40] insightful,
uh, and it's um, it it really is
[3:27:47] exactly how county boards should
operate. And I am just in awe and admire
[3:27:54] how you conduct yourselves in Baron
County. that is you're a model for how
[3:28:01] debate on issues ought to occur and it
makes me so proud to work for you. Uh
[3:28:07] just my compliments. It's you you you
hash things out. The questions are so
[3:28:13] thoughtful. It's rational uh
conversation and you are so respectful
[3:28:18] of each other and it's uh chairman Mr.
Chairman Oki and Mr. French uh just so
[3:28:25] incredibly well done. you just uh I'm
just u so so proud to work for you.
[3:28:30] Thank you.
[3:28:35] » It's partially your fault. It's the way
you conducted this meeting, both the
[3:28:39] presentations. You led us down the path
the right way. You gave us the right
[3:28:43] information. So, we thank you for that.
And it is a great board. So,
[3:28:50] Supervisor Olsson and just really I
guess a point of order. Um there's
[3:28:54] discussion of whether this is going to
the zoning committee or an ad hoc
[3:28:58] committee. Uh has that question been
resolved? And if it's ad hoc, how do we
[3:29:04] do that in terms of deciding to do that?
That's just a question.
[3:29:08] » John, couldn't we couldn't we decide
that on the 19th? Couldn't we have to
[3:29:13] get those details? A little more time
for the board to noodle on this. You're
[3:29:17] going to be you're going to be um when
it goes to the full when we reconvene as
[3:29:23] full county board there's going to be a
motion there's going to be the report
[3:29:27] from the committee of the whole then
there's going to be a motion to adopt
[3:29:31] that and make that recommendation by the
board to the zoning committee or the ad
[3:29:35] hoc committee. I think that's the time
to do it so we know what you're going to
[3:29:37] do before you leave here today. Good
>> point.
[3:29:41] » So we're going to do that on October
19th is what you're saying. No, we're do
[3:29:44] it today. Oh,
>> you're going to be taking the chair back
[3:29:47] as in and reconvening the county board.
>> An action taken on what the committee of
[3:29:53] the whole reported to you,
>> right?
[3:29:55] » So, you're doing again what you just
did, but um you just did it as committee
[3:29:59] of the whole. Now, you're going to do it
as county board. That's the way your
[3:30:02] agenda is set up anyways.
>> Right.
[3:30:10] So Lou, what I need to do is I need to
read this statement again to you because
[3:30:14] you're now we're now back as the county
board and you're the chair.
[3:30:17] » Okay.
>> So chair Oki, the committee of the whole
[3:30:20] has completed its work and reports the
following. Baron County Board of
[3:30:25] Supervisors meeting as a committee the
whole recommends the moratorum ordinance
[3:30:29] on data centers be placed upon the
agenda for consideration at the October
[3:30:33] 19th 5:00 pm county board meeting. That
is their motion to rise and report. I
[3:30:38] will tell you then sir that in my
opinion you are now on to item 7B.
[3:30:42] Motion to adopt modify or reject the
recommendation from the committee.
[3:30:46] » So Lou you're correct. So what'll happen
now is is the board's going to vote to
[3:30:50] put it on the agenda for the 19th. So
sometime between now and the 19th,
[3:30:55] you're going to decide, the county board
is going to decide where to refer that
[3:30:59] to, who's going to take it up uh once
the moratorium's in place, who's going
[3:31:04] to take up the and you know, typically
it would go to the zoning committee
[3:31:08] because that's the committee of
jurisdiction because it's going to be a
[3:31:11] zoning ordinance. That's the normal way,
but that that would be decided by the
[3:31:16] board as a whole. You can do it today or
you can do it on the 19th. probably do
[3:31:19] it on the 19th because you don't know
whether you're going to have a moratorum
[3:31:22] or not until that. Right.
>> That's just it's just what I was
[3:31:26] thinking because we don't know if we're
going to have that moratorum and also
[3:31:29] gives us more time to think about it. I
mean I made those comments about
[3:31:32] Supervisor Cook but you know he does
know a lot about this stuff and uh you
[3:31:37] know I I just trying to keep you out of
trouble. [laughter]
[3:31:40] » I I appreciate that. So, uh,
>> and I would say too, I think this is
[3:31:46] something that we could put on the exec
agenda to have a discussion by that
[3:31:50] body. Uh, with regard, I mean, Audrey
sits on that committee. She is our
[3:31:53] zoning chair. Uh, we can have a
discussion about what that should look
[3:31:57] like
>> and that's on September 9th. We moved to
[3:31:59] back week, just remember. Okay.
>> So, I that would be my recommendation to
[3:32:03] just have at least a discussion on what
it should look like.
[3:32:07] » That all right with you, Jeff?
>> Yes. I'll put it on there. I'm writing
[3:32:09] it down now.
>> Okay. Okay. So we have the motion that
[3:32:12] Jeff uh has said about three different
times. So now we need somebody to make
[3:32:18] that motion.
>> Motion to the appropriate motion it
[3:32:22] would be you adopt it, you modify it. If
you modify it, it takes a motion. What
[3:32:26] what specific modification is that takes
a motion, a second, and then approval.
[3:32:30] Then you go back to approve the main
motion or you reject it outright. So
[3:32:35] somebody needs to
>> somebody can just make a motion to
[3:32:38] adopt.
>> That's correct. Motion by Supervisor
[3:32:41] Bartlett, second by Supervisor Turkot.
Is there any further discussion on that?
[3:32:48] Not. All those in favor of of adopting
the committee of the whole report as
[3:32:53] Jeff has said several times indicate by
saying I.
[3:32:56] » I. Post say no. The motion's carried.
Thanks everybody.
[3:33:01] » Now we
>> now by there's no further
[3:33:06] guess against it. By unanimous consent,
we'll adjourn at 4:15.