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number 26

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of America and to the republic for which
it stands.

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One nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.

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» We'll do a roll call.
Jim

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» here.

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» And I present

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from

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Madam Chair, I move we approve the
minutes from

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artist.
>> I'll second.

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» We'll take a vote.
>> Yes.

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» Yes.
>> Yes.

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» Yes.
>> Yes.

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» And I voted yes. Are approved.

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Hey, madam chair, commissioner Tim,
planning zoning director. I I'll be

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brief tonight. There's not a lot of new
activity. Um, as you see on your monthly

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report, we we're still becoming robust
here with single family housing. Um this

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is all mostly what been approved some
time back.

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Most of our new subdivisions still
haven't um new building permits tall.

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So this is some of the good work this
body has done in the past and well

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positioned well placed growth city

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broken ground
they long day

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that puts them sometime in November if
they're going well and so far it looks

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like they're cruising
uh we do feel that we'll have some

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building permits out of that That's
parallel east of 155th south of the

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intermediate school.
Earlier thoughts were that it would be

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more like late February [clears throat]
March, but they're making better insist

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chance
of November early December.

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So that would be another variable to our
housing stock that that's the overall

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balance that we have. We still
anticipate some housing permits be at

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the Falcon Lakes and areas that this
body is already pre-approved. We just

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have not seen the construction plan
infrastructure from the developer yet.

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That's usually not a very long period
because that's usually have been get

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driven how fast they turn in
information. We brought about a 21 day

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plans which for city staff that was
pretty pretty quick. So they still have

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a chance to start a construction this
year.

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Um we hope to be announcing a few more
commercial projects in the next 30 60

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days. So bearies
you have to get used to this job. A lot

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of people call you talk to you and then
they just go away. So you try not to get

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too excited when they you hear the name
brand or some water bust. But that's

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just as far as business. Anytime you
want to call me or Alex about questions,

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feel free to have a question about

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new business. Item number five, your
visions to the approved Greymont and

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Prairie Gardens final development.
>> Good afternoon,

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assistant director.
Five for you today is a revision to the

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previously improved final development
plan for the Crayop subdivision. Um, as

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you may recall about a year ago now, we
went through this process with the same

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subdivision on phases sixth and seven to
modify those phases. And the process is

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um that whenever the developer gets the
development plan approved, some

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preliminary engineering work goes into
it, but certainly not to the full

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construction level depth, which at
sometimes may uncover some issues. And

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this process is in our zoning code to
allow the developer to come back and

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say, "Hey, we uncovered this issue. Is
it okay if we modify it without changing

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the intent of the development in order
to accommodate any issues that they ran

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into?" This request is to move the
entrance and access point that will um

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go to 166th Street about 300 foot north
um from where is it is currently

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located. The applicant and the engineer
came to the city a while ago and said

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that the current
the current access point and the grading

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have such wouldn't allow for very good
drainage. Um and with it being situated

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right next to that flood plane um as
well as a very easy alternative of

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moving a 300 foot north um that this is
in front of you today. As a reminder,

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the only thing up for consideration is
the changes that are proposed on any of

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the previous developments as those are
largely already built out. This will

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result in seven new lots being added to
the subdivision as a result of the

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reconfiguration
largely due to the lots being able to be

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on both sides of the access road with it
being 300 foot north. There wasn't any

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houses or any lots on the southern
portion of it being claimed.

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Staff recommends approval of the side of
the applicant is also here questions.

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» Yes. Um the access road goes out into
66.

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» Yes, that's correct. It'll be just north
of the current access road to the very

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submission.

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Just a couple um where are the new seven
lots? Are they more concentrated to

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where that new opening access road will
be?

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» Uh yeah, most of them are are featured
just right around the western most part

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here 166.
>> What is immediately north of

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the new access road? uh the large lot
that state uh it's none of it is in

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based for city limits but it's it's
large lots

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and I've looked at the aerial that
remind me if we move the road 300 ft to

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the north what what else is around there
for egress or ingress or any other

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properties either east or west side so
there's a hidden ridge subdivision has

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the current back road and then
previously vis

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for an additional phase to grant access.
This road was originally going to line

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up with that with the 3 north that
provides the most distance that staff

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and our engineers feel comfortable with.
But those are the only two major points

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of access until you get up to parallel.

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Thanks.

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» I move for the approval of the Greyhawk
final development plan revision request.

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I'll second.
>> We'll take a vote.

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» Yes.
>> Dennis,

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» yes.
>> Yes.

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» Yes.
>> Yes. I vote yes.

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» Item number six, consideration of a
final development plan for Sundance

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Villas.
>> Afternoon, commissioners. It's obvious,

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assistant director of planning and
zoning. This final development plan is

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for Sundance Villas. This will this
development plan was supported earlier

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this year. It's a twoacre
on 15th Street across from Maple Street.

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The final development plan for
consideration. I do feel like this is

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one of the first development we had for
approval in a while. So just as a

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reminder, the final development plan
consideration is just to make sure that

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it follows the preliminary nothing
significant has changed. There are a few

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modifications that are allowed such as
moving a building a few feet, increasing

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ground coverage, but in for the most
part all development plans are just go

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into greater detail whether it be on
topic studies, storm water studies,

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drainage, sewer architecture, then the
preliminary development plan. So before

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you today is the Sundanceville
development plan that is an exact mirror

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of preliminary development plan you saw
with one minor change um being a fire

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turnaround point in the middle of
development. You may see the the um

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trash enclosure followed by a a stick
out of the road that was placed in there

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often to the common office by staff that
if a fire truck were to ever enter into

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this development and go to buildings A
or B, it's going to need a place to swim

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around to avoid going into driveways. U
there were there was a different

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solution on the preliminary development
plan and this is the solution on the

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final development plan. Outside of that,
there are no changes. The the final

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drainage and storm water study are all
satisfactory is reviewed by the city

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engineers. Um, as well as all of the
architectural detail that the applicant

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went further in depth for um so staff
recommends approval of this item and I'm

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happy to answer any questions.

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assuming that

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» that's right. gold stripes inside
according

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and
what's going to be the uh the finish of

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the of the
area

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the back quarters
15th Street I'm looking at the at the

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plans and it doesn't go down to that
amount of detail so I'm going to require

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require some kind of inter.

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» Yeah, they'll have uh they'll be
required to go into the city

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specifications and requirements which is
is currently for the approach as long as

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you're directed. It's not shown exactly
on on the the drawings or the

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renderings, but they'll be required to
go curve and gutter like you see

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on the street. Yeah. Okay. And

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This might be a side

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the community spot seems to be where

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that's part of

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the recycling center is just south of
this development. Um, so this would not

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be touching that property. There's a
>> gonna be close, but

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» it'll be just north of that. So there's
the baser market and then there's the

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recycling center and then there's a a
few hundred feet before you get into the

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single family homes as you get further
north. Right.

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» This will be just across from Maple
Street 155th which is north of cycling

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center
but it will

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eliminate a lot of the park.
>> Um this

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» perhaps you'll
uh they do provide adequate parking in

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front of the community building as well
as some extended driveways. Uh it I

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would I wouldn't imagine that uh many
people would would park in that area,

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but it is in your approxim
just a couple nights away.

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» Well, looks like
along the street.

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» Is is there anything that prevent

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the new development whether it's the
ownership or the HOA? I don't know,

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but um put parking for
Sunday.

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Yeah, it's very likely that there'll be
signage. That's not included typically

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in a final development plan and the
signs in front of each individual

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parking spot, but it's likely,
especially if they run into issues, that

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they'll put signs in front of the
community building.

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Would
it be possible to get page 23 up on the

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screen, please?

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Alex, based upon previous comments, the
the the little bitty

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building, but just in the south, that's
the recycling center. Yes, that's

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correct.
And then where where is Maple Street?

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» Maple Street is the name of the street
is directly across that lines up with

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that entrance.

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» Anybody else have any questions?
And and just one more north if you will

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to the far east.
Is that a underground

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water?

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some sanitary lines that run to the east
off of those properties which I'm not

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sure if that's what created those lines

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but right just just to the building
>> what is what is that looks like

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that

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Yeah,

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» this is our
>> right

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» our detention basin,
>> right?

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» And it's a dry bottom not meant to be
wet. So when it gets to a certain level,

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the engineering performance this um this
is an outflow. It's going to be existing

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soil system that makes it way here. So
this is our two flutes that come out of

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there to prevent erosion. So this is the
dry basin

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design water and it looks like
still right next to that.

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Anybody

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else have a question?

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» Yes.
>> Yes.

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» Yes.
>> Yes. Yes.

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Yes.
>> Yes.

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Item number seven, next amendment
regarding architectural design standards

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for res.

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Thank you, Mr. Sherman.

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Responded about three months ago to
approve the architecture classes.

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Before we went to city council, we
decided to hold a few stakeholder

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meetings. um consult with our special
counsel even though we did beforehand.

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It's always nice after it comes to this
body to uh revisit the u proposed. Uh

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during such time we receive feedback
both from our special counsel and some

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of the stakeholders which usually are
developers developers um to maybe work

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forward some modifications. These are
pretty small modifications, but I'd

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advise the council support to
incorporate these back into the

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document. Most of the time, it allows
the director, you know, i.e. the city to

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um allow for some deviiances to
materials where if it's applicable and

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have a legal standing within the
document. In other words, before we were

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leaving more implied, the new language
will say as per directive approval. Um

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one of the uh major changes too was
by bringing single family into this the

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it's called the foursided design there
was quite a bit of concern with the

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building public that we were now going
to be asking for architectural

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enhancements like the back side and I
couldn't find anybody in the metro that

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went to that level so now we added
language saying that the emphasis in one

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family drawing just for the streetscape
or the front facade as as intended to be

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in. Um it was just the wording in the
beginning because poor sighting. We

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still want to leave that for all our
other because this this counts for like

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a farm complex. We still want to leave
that. We didn't want to adjust that

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language. Um, it also leads the
directors now to u what our special

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counsel was concerned about when we do
have kind of a flat facade without a

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mineral door. We had language where you
need to enhance that architecturally to

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make up for the flat side. Well, we
didn't really have a approval method and

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some council said you should have as per
director of approvals to make sure that

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that's consistent, fair, and everybody
that um then kind of one of the one of

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the more important ones um the 40% that
had always been in the since 2010 been

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in the architectural design. That's the
masonry coverage. Um, we did some

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research and talking to some other
jurisdictions. We couldn't find anybody

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that had 40%.
Um, we did find a little bit that went

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down to 25 to 30. So, we went ahead and
proposing to this body tonight for a

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single family and and two family instead
of 40% 30%. We still keep R1B at 60%.

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that that robust nature for the smaller
lot dwellings is still going to remain.

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We were adamant that that was a design
feature that we wanted to keep. um this

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body weighed in on that and developed
the 60% on R1 engagement um was

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consistent what we're looking at based
of course off some of the tours some of

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the feedback we're seeing but we did
feel that it was um in good nature to

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reduce
30% mir still exceeds

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many or if not most of the jurisdiction
metro area for single them So we're not

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00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:26,480
really
um reducing unacceptably too much. It's

223
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:30,320
just more of something where we met with
stakeholders.

224
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:35,120
We keep [clears throat] still a lot of
the main restrictions the body was

225
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:42,480
looking at. We don't really want to see
along front. We look to eliminate the

226
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:46,640
old backward which tends to um
break down. It's a little too easy.

227
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:51,919
That's a maintenance nightmare. Those
things were still but we decided on the

228
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:56,400
heavy materials which is the bottom
level of main street and we went down

229
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:59,400
30%
um

230
00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:06,720
accessory structures
it's been we've been running parallel

231
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:10,400
this on staff and just in reading the
architectural design it was felt through

232
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:16,159
special counsel that we should probably
address the siding in this document

233
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:20,960
instead of with the design district
standard

234
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:26,320
because we already have accessory
structure mention

235
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,360
now we're asking that we do not have a
metal bar

236
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:43,320
must look like the primary structure
match exact what we're looking for

237
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,320
building looks

238
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:53,679
it's a lot like when we
nature they they don't want whatever the

239
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:59,120
new edition and stuff to stick out like
they don't want to be blended as the

240
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:04,799
same but they want they do not want it
to look so

241
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:09,280
that's one of the things that we have
been looking at across the metro that

242
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:14,799
many many development communities have
that language where structure should

243
00:24:11,919 --> 00:24:20,960
look like primary
um we added that in that was presently

244
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:26,320
presented at this bond.
There was a couple other um roofing

245
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:30,240
materials
and the only reason we've added roofing

246
00:24:27,919 --> 00:24:35,200
materials not that we're going to say
you can do fiber glass

247
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:41,679
some of the old standards just there are
so many modulations of new materials

248
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:49,360
coming out but our examples were not um
all in so we just left u we left that it

249
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:54,960
will not be applied to
projects like Sundanc you you would be

250
00:24:52,559 --> 00:25:04,440
looking at the director wouldn't approve
that that would come this a single panel

251
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:04,440
is something type of look

252
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240
and lastly

253
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:22,000
we have a three door minimum maximum on
some of our voting districts

254
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:28,000
but we also council has some emphasis by
some of the elected body to have more

255
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:32,240
garage type parking effect building. So
this would be that would have been a

256
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:38,880
conflict. So instead, what we've decided
to do is council help guide me through

257
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:47,200
this is leave the restriction on more
than three doors, but allow the director

258
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:52,960
um some latitude for these large back in
where architecturally

259
00:25:49,919 --> 00:25:57,200
they can have four or five. What I will
tell you is what we will look for at

260
00:25:55,279 --> 00:26:01,679
that kind of installation is some kind
of architectural deviation. So we're not

261
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:06,400
looking at a wall of garages plus
recessed or extended or some

262
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:12,240
architectural variations between the
doors even maybe a door with glazing

263
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:19,039
that door with architectural trim
something to break up the head of the

264
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:24,640
pattern. That's why that's in there.
Normally I I looked back and some of the

265
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:29,120
emphasis back well over 20 some odd
years ago. Um, I understand what they

266
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,640
were talking about, but
if you go look at there's one on

267
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:38,000
accident
really nice job

268
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:42,039
and it doesn't look repetitive and like
you're all over.

269
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:50,080
Other than that, this document is almost
exactly like this. And so basically

270
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:56,400
summation is it allowed the director to
approve some material differences,

271
00:26:52,880 --> 00:27:03,320
garage doors, walls without windows,
architectural um and then we did the the

272
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:03,320
two other

273
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,600
sign

274
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,919
and you have any questions I'm seeing
that we

275
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,440
We should take a motion.

276
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:34,120
» Yes.

277
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:46,919
» Do we have anybody who like to speak?
Do we have anybody online?

278
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,480
I'll make a motion to close public
hearing.

279
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,200
» Yes.
>> Yes.

280
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,200
» Yes.
>> And I guess the public hearing is

281
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,200
closed.

282
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:15,600
» I'm curious who provided
most of the opposition to the board.

283
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:23,919
The question builders
>> mostly build mostly builders and mostly

284
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:30,640
builders of our two largest sub.
Um they really were not opposed to it in

285
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:37,120
the sense it's just that they have some
architectural fronts that

286
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:41,200
would not meet their plans of 40%.
2530

287
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:46,799
wood
but 40% would be a little difficult and

288
00:28:44,399 --> 00:28:52,399
why I say that is in our architectural
design standards we tear it in three

289
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:57,600
levels heavy the medium level and top
level the top level is generally wood

290
00:28:55,279 --> 00:29:04,320
wood type of treatments the middle level
would be something like

291
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:11,679
metal panel or stuckco and then the
bottom this industry, but it was mostly

292
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:18,799
gold. Our two most active subject
are currently

293
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:22,720
historic information.
>> Great. That's a great question.

294
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:27,200
After the meeting, I wanted to go see if
this was true or not. And they have a

295
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:33,919
few
kind of

296
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:41,760
did not meet the full 40%. But the but
the rest of that was spawned

297
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:45,600
against they were uh there's already
concrete look that looks like stuckco.

298
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:50,640
They were using that above the next
level. Um then others were using

299
00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:56,159
architectural wood patterns. So those
weren't meeting the 40%. They were

300
00:29:53,200 --> 00:30:02,320
pretty close to the 30% and I think
looking at their designs of their fronts

301
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:08,159
that they can easily meet the 30%. Um I
think they wanted to go lower than I

302
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:12,880
felt that a after touring that they
could. The other subdivision clearly

303
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:18,000
they could meet the 30%. They weren't
meeting the 40% not because they

304
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:22,159
couldn't they just weren't they just
weren't installing.

305
00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:26,240
They couldn't they would their design of
their fronts was such that

306
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:29,679
architecturally they couldn't add more
stone. And by the way, everybody's doing

307
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:35,440
pretty.
There's almost no brick or real or real

308
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:39,840
stone being installed right now. We do
have an applicant coming in the city

309
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:45,679
that does use real brick. So I'm going
to see how that goes whether that's

310
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:54,159
something desirable
to home service. But to answer your

311
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:58,720
question that most could meet the 40%.
So, so if they if they weren't they

312
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:03,440
didn't meet the 40% or didn't meet the
30%.

313
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:10,000
Let me back up. If they didn't meet the
40%. And they just ignored it.

314
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:14,080
How are we holding them accountable to
meet the 30%. If we go to 30%, they go,

315
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:19,679
"Well, okay, we're going to just shade
it down to 27 and 25 and 23."

316
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,840
» I I that's another great question
because that's what we asked on staff is

317
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:29,679
how are we going to manage this? So, our
plan review now will be uh we'll be

318
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:34,080
conducting a facade plan review and
they're going to have to show us the

319
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:38,399
percentage on all their building because
that's you're spot on, Mr. That's that's

320
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:42,559
a great comment. We we've talked to the
staff. We don't want to do this in the

321
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:48,640
field. That's impossible that you're
asking find out in the field or varies

322
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:54,240
out that's impossible to um be able to
calculate the open versus the surface

323
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:59,200
material. So we're doing it by interview
and we we feel pretty confident we could

324
00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:04,480
achieve this. That's you're I'm glad
you're asking that because it was

325
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:09,039
even if let's say we do go 30% doesn't
matter what percent we were questioning

326
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:13,519
how are we going to start making sure
that was one we so changed our plan view

327
00:32:11,919 --> 00:32:18,480
we've actually started notifying some of
the builders that we will be looking at

328
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:23,679
this on
start to submit be ready for the

329
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:29,279
percentage of
>> that's just human nature when you put on

330
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:32,559
future was an egg. So, a kid walking and
dog

331
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,840
and I think the builders are going to
want to do the same. So,

332
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:40,320
» it's excellent. No, I appreciate that.
And that's I think you're you're well in

333
00:32:38,399 --> 00:32:45,519
tune with everybody on that one. That's
why we the easiest method for us would

334
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:50,960
be do it at the planner so they they
acknowledge it so they can't come to us

335
00:32:47,919 --> 00:32:55,360
later and not be held accountable when
we

336
00:32:53,279 --> 00:33:00,000
Yes, sir.
Anybody

337
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:04,080
else have a question?
>> I do.

338
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:11,039
What you in your presentation earlier
you mentioned that single family homes

339
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:15,760
have literally four elevations which are
the answer to my question. He said on

340
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:22,600
page 57
uh the actual paragraph

341
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,600
on the page

342
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:30,519
wall
building elevation

343
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:42,320
that
each building elevation would be front

344
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:49,600
two sides and back. And we're only
really talking about the front elevation

345
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:56,799
or the street facing elevation.
So it says each building elevation and

346
00:33:52,799 --> 00:34:02,559
there are four elevations on any single
family.

347
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:08,399
And so what council said was leave the
planning director's approval paragraph

348
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,399
at top and keep that for other buildings
besides single thing.

349
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,159
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. So that was and I'm glad you're

350
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:21,359
bringing that up. That was that was one
of the major um roadblocks for us to

351
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:26,480
because the idea was to not just have
this document when they brought this

352
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:30,560
plan back in 2010 was this is planning
developments but and this city was

353
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:36,000
seeing project developments but now
we're seeing more straight zoning. That

354
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:43,440
was the emphasis of bringing R1 and R2
into this document. Um but by doing so

355
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:49,520
um that was a little bit of a push back
that that's with the larger loss and the

356
00:34:47,919 --> 00:34:56,560
way they were building they didn't want
to have to do foresighted. So the

357
00:34:52,159 --> 00:35:00,480
council just advises certain that
staff

358
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:06,320
we want to leave that in there when we
bring bigger projects to this body

359
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:10,800
you'll have that in there too.
There was documents also for you to set

360
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:16,480
this for the planning commission on the
project.

361
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:21,280
I've never been involved in
building

362
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:26,720
this like single family homes any
commercial building

363
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:32,320
through the
specification

364
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:35,440
every word something misspelling
someplace.

365
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:41,599
you'd be going back and forth with your
cheese and seas for a week or two to

366
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:48,079
make sure that every that you had every
word right had lawyers looking all over

367
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:55,599
everything. So was an important thing in
the commercial industry that I was at.

368
00:35:51,119 --> 00:36:00,800
Uh, also on page 58,
um,

369
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:06,960
this isn't one of the
red letter things, but in that box it

370
00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:13,680
says field painted
or prefinish standard

371
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:16,680
say I think that
field.

372
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:27,760
» No, I don't. So that we'll we'll work
with that when we do the final doc and

373
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:32,720
that's actually still in the old 2010. I
appreciate that. Thank you.

374
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:41,560
» Yeah. Yeah. It's from my from my
commercial building

375
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:41,560
that you know every letter word every

376
00:36:43,839 --> 00:36:50,200
also in the fall of last year.
Eur

377
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:08,079
changing it from 1200 square foot
minimum to a a 1700 square foot minimum.

378
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:15,760
Where are we on that? Well, we have not
revisited since that discussion. um our

379
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:23,119
staff emphasis been on like R1B
developments and trying to um work on

380
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:30,320
other standard levels of design. Um I'm
sure that's going to come up again soon.

381
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:36,240
What really brought that forward was um
a couple of our applicants were coming

382
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:40,800
in under maybe R1 and deputy probably
not going to build what this community

383
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:46,720
standard was used. So that's what
initiated that conversation was to keep

384
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:52,160
that from happening. But um since then
there's been some alteration changes to

385
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:57,200
the conversation we're having with at
this point we don't see anybody coming

386
00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:03,760
in for very minimum
not being what this

387
00:38:01,359 --> 00:38:07,280
body
so I'm sure that's going to come up

388
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,760
again because we would like to revisit
that table anyway.

389
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:16,800
It's it's confusing between split
levels, buy levels, dry level. It's very

390
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:21,920
confusing. So, we'd like to come back to
this and put that up. That's probably

391
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:29,680
going to happen later next.
Appreciate that. Okay. And on back on

392
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:34,480
page 57, that red paragraph
for R1,

393
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:41,680
there'll be 60%
masonary. I I get the impression from

394
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:48,240
audience participation we've had in the
past that people look at our might be as

395
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:53,599
you know car paper shacks that were
allowing to be built on

396
00:38:51,119 --> 00:39:00,320
trailer park size lots and stuff like
that. I remember we had a field trip I

397
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:07,359
think was earlier this year where we had
some houses which I think fit we are one

398
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:13,119
category that were on lots smaller than
10,000 square feet but they were

399
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:21,040
primarily the houses that we looked at
were primarily upscale houses with

400
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:29,760
prices in the upper floors by 500,000.
That is kind of where we're going on R1B

401
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:36,960
isn't it a smaller lot but a
more upscale house

402
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:42,079
maybe a smaller house but but with more
masonry and and things like that. Am I

403
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:46,000
am I missing the vote on
>> that's actually that's exactly the

404
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:50,240
emphasis from this body and the
governing body and we'll be talking to

405
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:54,160
you next month about landscaping
enhancements too that very same

406
00:39:52,400 --> 00:40:00,400
principle
we're down to what

407
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:06,400
it's hard because landscaping's more on
subjective side than anything we do but

408
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:13,280
yes we want and I say that strongly want
to make sure these are what we our lots

409
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:18,320
are enhanced above normal lots because
we're allowing a smaller lot most likely

410
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:25,480
smaller volume doesn't mean a cheaper
volume but we do want with that smaller

411
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,480
building more advanced sweets

412
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:38,320
and by smaller dwelling
I would argue that our R1 is well

413
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:45,520
minimum 1200 square ft R1 minimum 1200
square So not necessarily the smaller we

414
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:51,359
right now I don't think we're with the
one RB R1 body move forward I don't

415
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:56,560
think we're going to see small very
small houses in the development field

416
00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:02,240
right now there are there are two really
big costs to developers land and the

417
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:08,560
infrastructure system storm sewer
sanitar those are really what are

418
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:14,400
driving up um cost so it is that All
houses the interest rate are one thing

419
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:20,880
those they can save their
I really feel you don't see

420
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:25,680
houses above 12
just because it's a small lot doesn't

421
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:31,520
mean what you see
below average temperature and and we're

422
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:35,240
helping that by adding the standard
store address

423
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Thank you very much. You can answer that
question. Yes, sir.

424
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:48,000
» Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be quick
just a couple questions and and

425
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:53,200
comments. My first comment, however, is
kudos to staff. Uh this is a phenomenal

426
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:57,280
document. It it it as a growing
community, we need that professional

427
00:41:55,119 --> 00:42:02,079
standards, but I also love it that it's
not just cookie cutter approach. I love

428
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:08,640
the the antiot
standard. That's great. I love that. Um,

429
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:15,640
couple other
things on page 51 on 5.2. Building

430
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,640
character.

431
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:24,720
I like the fact I like what it's talking
about. Uh, exterior material colors

432
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:29,040
should be similar to other building
colors within each phase of the

433
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:35,839
development. But then right underneath
it, it says don't do this. And I I get I

434
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:42,960
get the general gist of that.
color palettes change over time. Um,

435
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:49,920
what if someone wants those interesting
colored houses, rainbow colored houses?

436
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:53,400
This the intention for this document is
at the construction.

437
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:02,319
This this wasn't intended for
years down the road. We may come back to

438
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:07,200
this body to address that comment. In
fact, I had talked about that, but this

439
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:13,280
was mostly intended for the building
from its stage. We wanted to stay away

440
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:19,280
from creating pallets and subdivisions.
So, the only way we could do that is to

441
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:23,839
put something language to where you just
don't have that stark contrast. still

442
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:29,119
allows the ability to have freedom of
color selection without staff being

443
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:34,720
heavy-handed, but it also prevents
somebody that does that that sore thumb

444
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:39,280
next to a bowl up or field or wherever
they are. So, but but you're you raised

445
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:43,839
a really good point. We have thought
about that. We're not sure yet. This

446
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:49,680
document is just for the building
process now existing. We can address the

447
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:52,680
property maintenance code or we can
back.

448
00:43:54,319 --> 00:44:03,040
That's a nice segue. My last point on
page 57.

449
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:08,480
It talks about the planning director.
Just one of those little slight things.

450
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:12,079
Are they talking about your position?
And if so, is it your position director

451
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:18,079
of planning and zoning? Shouldn't that
be in there? you

452
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:24,160
talking just
you you just say something that aligns

453
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:29,040
itself to the position that's okay
because I don't know if three years from

454
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:32,760
now if uh Leslie wants to call this
maybe she wants to call this

455
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:42,079
but the planning director will probably
always be in some kind of title and

456
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:49,040
that's why we that generic
>> and then here My big question um to that

457
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:54,880
specific sentence who holds that
physician accountable someone comes in

458
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,880
and they want to do
you know it's 30% but someone wants to

459
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:03,760
do 27%.
And you know who that position starts to

460
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:07,680
allow that. So who holds that position
accountable to say no, you know, you

461
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:12,560
have a position has a little bit of
latitude, but it's it's been a very very

462
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:16,560
tight latitude and we got to maintain
these standards. That's excellent

463
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,800
because that was another thing we
discussed. I ultimately I'll work for

464
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:26,000
Leslie, our city administrator, and we
also work for the governing body and

465
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:31,200
also I don't want to rule out this body
too. Um it's it's an important um

466
00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:32,480
organization within, you know, we're
kind of

467
00:45:32,036 --> 00:45:38,640
» [clears throat]
>> tripod and since all three um work

468
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:43,839
together holding up city standards. Um
so I I I tell everybody I I have a

469
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:49,280
pretty good record. I've never really
made some kind of outlandish decision

470
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:54,240
not knowingly folks I report to can see
it too. The things we decide are not

471
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:59,440
hidden. And so I I I take that very
seriously. This mostly game I I just

472
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:05,119
give the world a beat. [clears throat]
Um he kind of helps guide myself and

473
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:10,240
sometimes Alex we were we just left the
two open for what if they want to

474
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:14,640
modulate a couple material but it's
structured here. Well, they may not be

475
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:18,720
able to. So he said we'll just put in
some language

476
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:26,359
to make modifications.
I I going to ask some little real little

477
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,359
scenarios just there.

478
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:36,160
» This is just a curiosity question. So,
so

479
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:41,440
as Greyhawk has continued to be built
out,

480
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:45,599
how does an HOA get formed
and because I I know some of the

481
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:50,480
standards are changed from city
standard, city standards and

482
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:54,400
construction, but then HOA standards and
what color you can repaint for house and

483
00:46:52,319 --> 00:46:59,280
that kind of how does that happen?
>> So, the HOA is formed through the deed

484
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:06,319
to the developers deed in that process.
They actually greathawk I believe has an

485
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:11,040
HOA now. Um so that organization
create their own standards. They're

486
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:16,720
autonomous of the city in the sense that
we don't enforce theirs. They don't

487
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:21,920
enforce the city standards. Um but
they're welcome to create um standards

488
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:26,640
as long as they're not in conflict
because this is actually will be a legal

489
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:32,560
document um first through this body and
then the governing body. But they can

490
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:37,359
create their own standards
to where they can talk about balance. So

491
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:42,800
that's what we did. We stayed away from
that and they can't say everything has

492
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:48,480
to be forms of
we don't say that. We just say a

493
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:55,760
neighbor next to neighbor can have
a checker board rather than

494
00:47:52,319 --> 00:48:02,400
totally distinctly. So, but HOAs are
formed, you know, for list on the D the

495
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:06,480
subdivision lots and then it's just
Kansas law and how they operate as HOA

496
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:12,240
forms
>> and they understand

497
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:16,240
that HOAs
are subject to city law.

498
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:21,280
» That's correct.
>> Right. So the HOA can't say, well, you

499
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:25,440
know, we're going to cut the street back
to 5 ft from the house and go, "Yeah,

500
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,800
that's not going to happen."
>> That that's that's great conversation

501
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:36,040
that that's exactly right. And we
actually so far I'm very fortunate in

502
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,040
this community that the His

503
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:44,720
very active yet they consult us quite
often before making decisions. I know

504
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:52,200
they've worked with Alex. Alex has done
a great job on helping them make

505
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:52,200
decisions on the legisl

506
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:57,880
we do not cover your free app.

507
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:07,680
» The other question about architectural
standards is the architectural standards

508
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:13,119
address solar on the bus at all. No, no.
We have we have a well there's there's

509
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:18,800
state law on how what you can and can't
restrict on solar panels and then we do

510
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:24,920
have our sex code that talks about solar
pan don't have it incorporated

511
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,920
directly

512
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:31,359
the law has changed a little bit on
where you a lot of communities said that

513
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:36,800
you can't have it in certain cases well
there's been case law where city's been

514
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:42,559
overturned
You have to be able to allow

515
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:46,359
we decided we need
adjustments to that also

516
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:56,440
question.
>> Yes.

517
00:49:57,599 --> 00:50:03,680
» I move to text amendment to
architectural design Sanders.

518
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,079
» Second.
>> Take a vote. Jim Hans,

519
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:07,040
» yes.
>> Dennis,

520
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:07,920
» yes.
>> Tom,

521
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:08,880
» yes.
>> Janice,

522
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,240
» yes.
>> Jim Owen,

523
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:15,079
» yes.
>> And I vote yes. That motion passes.

524
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:24,880
» Reports for special committees.
I'll take the motion to the regular.

525
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:28,800
» Make a motion to return the regular
meeting.

526
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,839
» Those in favor, Jim.
>> Yes.

527
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:36,920
» Yes.
>> Yes.

528
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,920
» Yes. And I vote yes.

529
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:54,079
Okay, I'll open our work session
consideration of amending art of the

530
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:57,079
regulations
areas.

531
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:06,119
Assistant directors
are a good reminder to the rightest

532
00:51:09,365 --> 00:51:14,880
[clears throat]
um under consideration for today just a

533
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:18,960
work session item regarding parking.
This will address both residential and

534
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:23,200
commercial parking. As a reminder with
all of our work sessions, this is no

535
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:26,160
formal action will be taken. So at any
point during the presentation, if you

536
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:30,720
have a question, please feel free to
interrupt me at any time. Um I will be

537
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:35,520
starting and just kind of going down the
list off of page 91 through the rest of

538
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:43,040
the packet.
Starting with 2301,

539
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:50,160
the existing section mostly addresses um
if a vehicle is left um is just left at

540
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:56,160
a lot, it's you know has four flat
tires, it has no engine in it. Um that

541
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:59,839
the enforcement and the guidelines for
that are addressing the code of

542
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:03,119
ordinances and talking with police and
code enforcement. They don't use this

543
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,280
section for enforcement. They use
various other parts of the code. So it's

544
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:11,280
it's redundant and not necessary and not
encouraged for that kind of language to

545
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,440
be in the zoning code. You don't
typically see a lot of you know police

546
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,960
timelines and punishment and
enforcability within the zoning code.

547
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:24,880
That's all up to the ordinance. So
that's why that first section is taken

548
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:30,160
out. Instead, it is still necessary to
um to outline what is encouraged and

549
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:34,400
what's required in terms of storage for
vehicles. And generally for for this

550
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,640
section and the rest of the sections
that we'll talk about today at least

551
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:42,480
some portion or majority portion was was
looked at from other cities that

552
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:46,240
surround this as well as some good model
ordinances from around the country. So

553
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:51,119
this isn't something that is being
introduced really certain times in the

554
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:54,800
city. So um under the the first
subsection of that is parking of other

555
00:52:52,960 --> 00:53:02,079
motor vehicles. This is largely to
prevent um fields from being turned into

556
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:07,119
storage of of cars. Um we see it in a
few of our larger lots where um for

557
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:12,000
whatever reason they hold on to older
cars that are never driven again have

558
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:17,839
you know weeds and trees growing through
them. Um this is largely to to prevent

559
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:26,400
that from happening or requiring cars to
um be kept on an improved surface um be

560
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:31,359
e either readily used or available to be
used. Subsection two is largely the same

561
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:36,800
as the first but for nonmotorized
vehicles as as listed there as well as

562
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:40,720
marine equipment. The first three are
mostly for safety and that both the

563
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:45,440
vehicle is supposed to be usable as well
as to be tied down if not used. That way

564
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:51,440
it doesn't blow away in the storm in a
swarm. Um subsection D has been added

565
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:58,000
largely for the
>> Yes, you said I could interrupt. Please

566
00:53:54,240 --> 00:54:02,640
I'm so sorry. back up under one a
>> free and frequent

567
00:54:00,319 --> 00:54:12,000
» defined and frequently and who who
defines so that would be um a delivery

568
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:17,520
service um someone coming in to drop off
uh like construction materials or or

569
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:22,000
construction um it would be largely left
up to state staff if we receive a

570
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:27,359
complaint that um you know a certain
vehicle is is staging outside for many

571
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:31,359
hours a day that we make sure we go and
check up on it. So, it would be up to

572
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:37,920
city staff to determine a brief
infrequent.

573
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:43,040
» Um on subsection two on um the
subsection D talks about no travel

574
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,119
trailers or or any type of trailers are
allowed to be lived in on a residential

575
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:51,920
lot or conduct business. This is largely
for city staff's verification as we

576
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:56,960
start to relay information to the
public. We've received an increase over

577
00:54:53,520 --> 00:55:02,480
the last year um and a half of calls of
people wondering if someone can live in

578
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:06,319
the driveway on a trailer. We currently
have another section of our code that

579
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:11,760
outlaws accessory dwelling units, which
would be like a a outouse or something

580
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:17,040
that's built um for living in that we've
been using to tell people no. This just

581
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:24,079
makes it much more clear um in the
intent. And there's also on subsection E

582
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:28,079
there's some exceptions for when parking
would be allowed in these in these

583
00:55:25,839 --> 00:55:33,520
areas.
Jumping ahead to 230201.

584
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:39,680
Uh the first is to apply this to our new
zoning district of R1B as well as R2. Um

585
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:45,119
and the the gist of what has been
crossed out is that previously we've

586
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:51,440
been allowing gravel driveways. Um we've
seen an influx in infill development and

587
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:55,920
infill lots um that are taking the large
lots that have been left by a few of

588
00:55:53,280 --> 00:56:00,559
these developments and with with a
requirement to put in gravel driveways

589
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:04,720
and more or less a residential
neighborhood where you don't currently

590
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:09,359
see that. This would not require anyone
who currently has a gravel driveway to

591
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:14,880
take it out and repave their driveway.
Uh but we've we've seen a a concerning

592
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:18,720
influx of homes that have busted gravel
driveway and with the current language

593
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,240
it allows them to do so after a certain
point which is very visible from the

594
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:28,480
roadway the source character in the
neighborhood. So this gets rid of of

595
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:35,119
that requirement. um this gets rid of
that ability um and as directed by the

596
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:40,079
the director to approve.
Um that the the rest of the section for

597
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:45,280
the most part will go into commercial.
Um so if anyone has any questions over

598
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:48,520
the existing residential I can take a
stop here.

599
00:56:52,240 --> 00:57:00,359
says
private property. So what if it's less

600
00:56:57,359 --> 00:57:00,359
than

601
00:57:01,359 --> 00:57:07,920
less than 100 under the current
circumstances they would have to use a

602
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,119
driveway
in the future. If this were to be

603
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:16,119
adopted as such, they would have to be
paved as well or under

604
00:57:20,319 --> 00:57:30,000
moving on to um the commercial. The this
first section that we'll talk about more

605
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:36,319
in in O4 um removes a lot of specifics
out of out of the the section. The 23.03

606
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:40,720
Note three largely has to deal with if
you have something like a church that's

607
00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:44,640
mostly only used two days out of the
week and there's a commercial business

608
00:57:42,319 --> 00:57:48,880
that you can have a legally binding
agreement with that you can share and

609
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:53,280
fully utilize that parking space and
that this section encourages you to do

610
00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:57,520
so. The current language talks about the
businesses that would be eligible to do

611
00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:00,880
so. It mentions bowling alleys, dance
halls.

612
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:05,839
The getting rid of this would just allow
any any business that is realizes that

613
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:11,520
they're not fully utilizing their
existing parking to reach a legal

614
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:16,240
agreement with another party nearby. Um
and as required at the bottom of this

615
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:21,040
section, it is to be presented by the
city um and is to be a legally binding

616
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:25,839
agreement. Taking out the specifications
just allow any business to do so more

617
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:33,440
fully equal as a parking.
2304 um is a a complete relative of the

618
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:38,319
parking minimums which currently exists.
Um the the language in there you'll see

619
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:42,720
is also completely new and there's
current parking regulations. There's

620
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:48,480
only a chart with no existing language
of how to interpret that chart. Um what

621
00:58:45,359 --> 00:58:52,319
to do if there's a rounding
it's to be constructed. The language

622
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:57,440
just goes into detail of how to better
interpret the chart and come up with any

623
00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:02,400
details and any specifications if
needed. The the big change is that there

624
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:07,520
are currently parking minimums in place
that if a business comes to the city,

625
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:11,040
they usually have a building footprint
and then they use that footprint to

626
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:17,359
determine how many parking spaces are
needed are required for their business.

627
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:22,240
Uh just for in reference, Fairway
exceeded their parking minimum by about

628
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:28,640
40 spaces. Um and the McDonald's site
plan exceeds their um their requirement

629
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:33,520
by about 12 spaces. So the current
minimums are being exceeded by current

630
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:38,480
businesses that are developing. But the
other side of minimums is that it it has

631
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:43,119
the city tell an incoming business how
much parking is required. In many

632
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:49,440
circumstances, that can be a detriment
to businesses. The biggest example is a

633
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:52,640
coffee shop um of you know a certain a
small business may come in find a lot

634
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,480
that they really like. It would fit
their building. It would fit what they

635
00:59:54,160 --> 01:00:00,240
see best fit for their business and the
amount of parking that's required. But

636
00:59:58,319 --> 01:00:04,720
the parking requirements tell them they
need an additional 15. Those 15 may not

637
01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:08,640
fit on the lot. Then they have to go
find another lot that costs 100,000 more

638
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:14,559
and their business doesn't ultimately
work out. So what this would do is

639
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:19,440
rephrase it from a parking minimum to a
parking maximum. The table has been

640
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:23,599
largely reworked and all the numbers
that you see on any categories have been

641
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:27,520
very much inflated. So it's not just a
one one word we're calling what our

642
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:31,040
minimums were now maximums. These are
far exceeding what they traditionally

643
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:35,839
were.
The goal of this is to avoid empty

644
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:41,440
parking lots for 364 days out of the
year. I'm sure many of us have driven by

645
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:47,200
malls, large box stores where the
parking lot is 75% empty for most of the

646
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:51,599
year. This is to in attempt to avoid
that as more and more businesses come to

647
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:56,400
the city. So what's what will be
required is that they show how much

648
01:00:53,920 --> 01:01:00,079
parking they intend to utilize um and
why that will be enough for their

649
01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:04,319
business. If there's a business that
comes to the city that needs to exceed

650
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:08,480
this, um, number seven, I believe in the
text allows them to submit a parking

651
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:12,799
study to do so and exceed any of these
numbers. Um, but these are are very

652
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:18,799
generous numbers that should not need to
be exceeded by any type of any type of

653
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:23,839
commercial businesses. Um, but the
intent is to limit the amount of excess

654
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:27,480
parking that would be currently required
under code.

655
01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:36,040
So the single family dwelling

656
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:45,000
there's a max
someone has a garage

657
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:45,000
in there

658
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:51,040
why are we governing they have a
[clears throat]

659
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:55,839
40 foot
then are we

660
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:59,839
two cars and explain
>> yeah That's a great question and

661
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:07,680
unfortunately the only residential
section that appears after this is later

662
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:13,200
in 07 which will get to defining parking
spaces for residential as garage.

663
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:17,920
So that this will limit it to four
garage spaces per dwelling unit. Um that

664
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:20,799
that is that is an amendment that we
thought about and that we certainly

665
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:26,960
don't want to eliminate you know long
driveways or anything is that in terms

666
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:32,440
of parking spaces that are required and
how to classify this table. It'll look

667
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,440
at garage spaces.

668
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:43,760
I sure did misread this because I just I
I I saw the word maximum and just in my

669
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:51,920
mind thought minimum because that's what
the old chart said as well. So I'm

670
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:57,680
completely confused now. Um um on other
all other commercial and retail uses and

671
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:59,920
I wrote down a note doc's
office.

672
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,280
Correct.
>> Uh correct. Yeah, there there is a

673
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:09,680
separate for hospital but for like
deposition care. Yeah. Um, so the old

674
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:15,200
one said
five parking spots per do

675
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:21,920
» and now this one is saying a maximum of
three phases just

676
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:27,200
so and part of the reason that I was
mentioning earlier of this goes into

677
01:03:23,839 --> 01:03:32,720
more generalities is because in in some
other cities it gets into

678
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:38,640
um you'll see they tried their best to
be most specific in have a four page

679
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:43,119
long table where they'll talk about four
spaces max four minimum of four spaces

680
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:46,480
for a bowling lane and a bowling alley
and and stuff like that where it's

681
01:03:44,559 --> 01:03:51,839
impossible for city staff to keep up
with the trends of what so it it goes

682
01:03:48,799 --> 01:03:55,520
into generalities of what's required. So
in in this scenario if there's a

683
01:03:53,599 --> 01:04:01,200
doctor's office that feels like they can
get away with with three spaces in their

684
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:05,119
entire parking lot they can run a
successful business that would allow

685
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:10,799
them to do so. And it does not
necessarily require them to provide

686
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:17,680
parking. It it sets a limit of of how
much parking they can provide to avoid

687
01:04:13,839 --> 01:04:24,240
having, you know, five doctors and 100
spaces. So, it would it would shift from

688
01:04:21,839 --> 01:04:30,640
the city requiring x amount of parking
spots per use to now leaving it up to

689
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:34,799
the business to to determine what they
know is needed to run a successful

690
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:37,799
business. and providing that kind of
part.

691
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:44,880
» Thank you. I don't know if I agree with
that. Thank you.

692
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:50,640
» So, yeah, I sound like
so we go to KU Medical Center on

693
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:55,440
occasion more occasionally
like they do great jobs

694
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:59,599
majority about them, but the ability to
art there is

695
01:04:57,599 --> 01:05:06,640
non-existent.
So, um, you know, I think that we really

696
01:05:04,319 --> 01:05:11,599
need to have some kind of minimum of
parking spaces for

697
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:16,960
large businesses potentially like a
hospital or a big box store, whatever,

698
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:22,319
so that people can actually park there.
>> Yeah. And part of the reasoning for

699
01:05:18,799 --> 01:05:26,880
this, and this is a a trend um
regionally and especially nationwide, is

700
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:29,839
that
there there's not going to be a hospital

701
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:33,119
that's built that will provide no
parking spaces because they understand

702
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:39,359
that they need to provide parking to
their patients, for visitors, etc.

703
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:45,119
The issue that that we see across the
the region is that there's too much

704
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:50,000
parking provided based solely on the
reason that it is required by the city.

705
01:05:47,839 --> 01:05:54,559
So there are businesses that would
suffice with let's just say 100 spots.

706
01:05:52,559 --> 01:06:00,160
They're required by the city to provide
150 and 50 of the spots go unused every

707
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:03,599
single on every single day of the year.
that could have been used for

708
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:08,720
landscaping but another business in
there for some other use other than 50

709
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:12,079
extra parking spots every single year
and every single day. They have to be

710
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:19,119
maintained by the business. They have it
has to be repaid, potholes filled, etc.

711
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:23,839
So the the intent of this is not to say
let's have every business come in with

712
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:27,920
that provides no parking and we
certainly encourage them to do so and

713
01:06:25,359 --> 01:06:32,880
it's it's shown by by Fairway and
McDonald's have us having a limit them

714
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:39,839
able to provide even less than they have
provided and them still going over. So

715
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:43,680
the the intent is that the the city is
not the one driving the number of

716
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:48,400
parking. it's the business or operation
that understands their business model

717
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:52,400
and will provide the amount of parking
accordingly. If that ends up not

718
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:56,079
working, they get complaints, they're
they're out of, you know, they're not

719
01:06:54,480 --> 01:07:00,160
they're losing customers because of
parking, that's something that they may

720
01:06:57,839 --> 01:07:05,680
come back to later and revise the
parking estimates and require expand

721
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:10,680
upon that. But but that's the intent of
of switching from minimum to a maximum.

722
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:24,079
I will I'll add a few more points to
this chart, but again, feel free to to

723
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:28,960
interrupt. Um, as we were kind of
talking about before that, um,

724
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:32,640
Commissioner Alai pointed out, if you go
to other cities or even our previous

725
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:35,920
chart, you'll see some specifics. This
goes into generalities to avoid having

726
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:41,920
to keep up with trends of what
businesses are are doing are doing what

727
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:47,599
required minimums or maximum for what
parking. Um and and a few of the spots

728
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:53,119
it goes it says in accordance with the
permit or development plan that's

729
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:56,960
especially for something like a park. um
you know the civic campus when it's

730
01:07:54,960 --> 01:08:01,920
attached to a civic use may require a
lot more parking when it has a splash

731
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:06,799
plant something else then maybe a trail
head parking or tomahawk part. So on

732
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:12,160
something as variable as that we left it
to the permitting process and the site

733
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:15,119
plan review process um where for for
those larger developments this body

734
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:21,440
would see it and be able to land on the
parking as well.

735
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:25,600
Uh 23.05 is a new addition. There's
currently no language in our code that

736
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:30,159
talks about pedestrian access. Um it's
it's very common for commercial

737
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:34,159
businesses to be required to provide
pedestrian access. It's not something

738
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:37,759
that would ever stop a business from
from coming to a city or be a hindrance

739
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:42,480
to commercial development. All this
would would mean is that anytime there's

740
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:48,000
more than two um double loaded aisles is
that there's required pedestrian access.

741
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:51,359
This allows people to access the
building easier. allows them to push

742
01:08:49,759 --> 01:08:56,719
their cart out to their car without
having to squeeze between two and and

743
01:08:53,359 --> 01:09:01,120
being a side mirror. Um they're be
required to use stripes accordingly. Um

744
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:05,600
and just generally provide easier
access. Um as well, at least in my

745
01:09:03,679 --> 01:09:09,679
opinion, there's both visually appealing
as well. It's a breakdown of the parking

746
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:13,040
lot. Speaking of, there's also no
parking lot landscaping required for

747
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:17,920
commercial businesses at the moment. So
23.06 would be another addition to the

748
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:21,839
code. Generally, it just requires
parking lot that parking lot

749
01:09:19,839 --> 01:09:26,799
landscaping. It's not necessarily
overbearing, but it it talks about

750
01:09:24,799 --> 01:09:30,880
landscape islands at the end of double
loaded parking aisles. This would avoid

751
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:36,319
cars going all the way up to the end of
an aisle. Um, and some of the, you know,

752
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:40,080
if you've been some of the parking lots
when there's a a really big car park at

753
01:09:38,719 --> 01:09:44,799
the end, you kind of have to inch out
and tug yourself into the aisle. a

754
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:52,000
landscape island in addition to
providing landscaping which which looks

755
01:09:46,799 --> 01:09:55,600
nice. Um it it provides a easy sideline.
Typically these are very low caliber

756
01:09:53,679 --> 01:09:59,520
trees with bushes in them that allow you
to see easier in the parking lot as

757
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:03,199
you're making the turns um as well as
just bush.

758
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:07,600
Um so what we're trying to avoid and
we've been lucky that we have had two

759
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:11,840
very good developers um and developments
come in with fairway in McDonald's that

760
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:16,080
are very agreeable and us asking them to
exceed our current minimums and and

761
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:19,920
landscape their parking lot. What we
want to avoid is any big box work come

762
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:25,440
in just have a sea of a parking lot of
just asphalt that you see on page 96 at

763
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:29,520
the bottom. And what we'd like to see is
either a landscaping buff for that,

764
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:34,800
especially in the street view, or allow
the ability of of outer parcels and

765
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:38,640
outer buildings to to buffer that street
view. So you're not driving down the

766
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:44,320
road and all you see is asphalt in the
store. You may see some greenery as

767
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:50,560
well. Alex
issue of required handicap parking. Is

768
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:56,560
that just does that state requirements
or does the city have c certain number

769
01:10:53,440 --> 01:11:03,520
of handicaps
parking requirements per as a ratio of

770
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:09,199
general parking department that work?
>> Yeah, that's set by the ADA

771
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:13,520
as is required. So that's not in our
parking requirements here. It's set by

772
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:21,040
the federal ADA and that's what we
follow. Thank you.

773
01:11:17,199 --> 01:11:28,880
» Um 23 07 talks about as we were talking
about earlier that the garages are to be

774
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:34,000
the residential units for parking are to
be served by garages and that um each

775
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:41,600
new residential building shall have at
least one garage space. Um and the the

776
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:49,520
new the new language in um section four
of that talks about um the distance a

777
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:54,960
parking structure can be from a building
a park the distance a parking structure

778
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:58,960
or units can be from a building for it
to be counted as serving that building.

779
01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:02,960
So you can't have something across the
street or half a mile away and say it's

780
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:09,760
serving a different building. So that's
what section four is is about.

781
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:14,080
Um and the rest of the um the rest of
the changes are changing planning

782
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:20,880
commission to director. Um the direction
we've seen from this body is that um

783
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:28,000
you know areas such as um parking lot
screening um and and plantings and and

784
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:32,159
fencing materials are something that
would like to be done at the staff level

785
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:37,120
be done a little bit more expedited
process. So that changes that language

786
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:42,600
as well.
And that is it for my presentation. I'm

787
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,600
happy to answer your questions.

788
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:52,400
» Yes. Not many people want to hear me
ramble about parking minimums. And

789
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:55,400
unfortunately, you all do not have a
choice.

790
01:12:55,679 --> 01:13:02,920
I suspect this kind of stuff is like
throwing Rob to the Tit

791
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:24,159
facility that
These are the true standards right now.

792
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:29,840
You said fairway, but I don't see any
>> uh in terms of landscaping.

793
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:34,960
» Well, the whole
>> um I haven't done an inventory count of

794
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:38,880
the
>> nailed it.

795
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:43,679
» Yeah, I I can't think of any that meet
the the landscaping requirements of the

796
01:13:41,199 --> 01:13:47,600
islands and the pedestrian access. Not
to say that those don't, you know, the

797
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:54,239
fairway parking lot is is kind of
divided, so you don't see those five,

798
01:13:50,719 --> 01:14:00,560
six, seven rows. Um, but I I can't think
of any of the current.

799
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:05,920
» So, so you're looking at the the Walmart
in Bonner Springs that seems to have a

800
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:10,000
pretty broken [clears throat] up
divided, has some islands in it. you

801
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:16,239
know, when I go into there, I don't feel
like I'm even though it is a big huge

802
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:20,239
parking lot and it looks like broken up
quite well.

803
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:24,880
» Yeah. Um, and the goal is really to
break it up. So, it it encourages people

804
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:28,800
to use the pedestrian access that helps
pedestrians not have to walk in the

805
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:32,320
middle of the aisle, but also cars not
have to wait for people who's going to

806
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:36,880
wander and walk down the middle of the
parking aisle. Uh so it it is the right

807
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:43,520
deal both visually but there's also a
very big safety aspect of providing

808
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,679
no noted points for people to walk up
and down parking aisles where there's

809
01:14:45,679 --> 01:14:56,360
vehicles backing in and out all the
time. They don't have to worry about

810
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:56,360
that. and and on through page 96

811
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:04,760
I don't go to a lot of places that that

812
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,120
building

813
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,719
it generally

814
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:26,040
and Walmart example that they other
landscape but they they don't have the

815
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:26,040
pain. And when you go to other parts of

816
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:33,760
the area
of the Kansas City area where you do see

817
01:15:32,159 --> 01:15:41,880
that
those ends take a beat,

818
01:15:38,719 --> 01:15:41,880
you know,

819
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:56,320
it it is very common to see those end up
as multip maybe a tree or something,

820
01:15:53,440 --> 01:16:00,960
which isn't necessarily a bad thing. In
this case, it it provides like I was

821
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:05,760
talking about earlier that the buffer of
the sight line so you're not having cars

822
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:11,600
all the way up as well as maybe a tree
or some bushes. But you're right, it is

823
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:20,199
very common for this to be buried
since you have so much service.

824
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:20,199
The trees don't come around.

825
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:42,040
» Yes.
>> Yes.

826
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,040
» Yes.

827
01:16:44,703 --> 01:16:47,520
» [clears throat]
>> I'm going to