I'm gonna call the, uh, natural resource, uh, committee, special call, meeting to
order. Uh, would you rise with me for the pledge of allegiance?
I pledge allegiance to the flag nation, united states of america,
and to the republic, republic for which it stands, one nation, one nation under
invisible with liberty and justice for all.
uh, thank you. Um, this is a special call meeting
because there were some, uh, community concerns,
uh, on, on, on major one major project,
uh, which is the palmetto bluff. I call it the palmetto bluff. And,
um, there was also counsel, uh, ask, um,
it, the, the second one that deals with, um, hilton head on
hilton head, uh, to come back, um, with more due
diligence. And I think that's something that can be handled, is being handled by council
at, I mean, by staff at this time. But it's on the agenda, um,
for public comment as well. There is no need for any action
on this party at this time, simply because, um,
uh, the action is already man, uh, mandated to come
back to council on the 22nd, uh,
meeting to be on the agenda. Um, this right here,
the day was just to hear concerns about the palmetto
bluff property. And if anybody has, uh, other concerns,
um, for the, um, the, the property on
hilton head, um, we can entertain or can, uh, hear
from them as well. Um, what I going
to, oh, me, let me do this. Um,
the, uh, freedom of information all notification
was sent out. Yes, sir, it was. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. I'm gonna read the agenda
and then, uh, I need the approval of the agenda. So, um, at this time,
uh, I entertain a motion to approve the agenda. I'll upon motion that
ms. Tabernac is motion a second. I'll
second. Um, doc, I mean, who's mr. Passman? Oh,
okay. Mr. Passman is seconded, and I'd like to make an amendment to the agenda
at the appropriate time. Um, okay. Is the motion to approve the
agenda then, mrs. Howard, do you have a, uh, amendment?
I do. I'd like to make a motion, uh, to amend the agenda to add an item
number seven, so that additional comments by staff or the
chairman of the green space committee can be done after the public comment period.
okay. Is there a second to that? Second. Second. Okay. Is the property motion to
send and second it that we add an additional comment
from the staff and the committee, um,
the green space committee. Uh, any question, those in favor,
please indicate by raising the hand. Okay.
mr. Mr. Passman, are you? Yes. Yes. Okay. And mr. Dawson
has voted yes in the confirmation, in the affirmative. So it's unanimous
at this time? Yes, sir. Um, eight. Now, the motion as amended,
uh, is on the floor, uh, to approve the agenda as amended. Those
in favor, please indicate by raising the hand. And mr. Dawson, thank
you. It is unanimous. Um, this time, uh, the
chair will hear, um, the
item eight a a, um, um,
which resolution authorizing the county administrator to execute the
documents necessary and to provide funds to contribute to the
procurement by the applicant, which is the tong of hilton head island
for the acquisition of fee. Simple, real, real property located on hilton
head island, known as the broad creek marina track.
and it has, um, the pin number r 5 10, 0 1 1 0 0 0 0, 0 0 6, 0 0 0,
not to exceed the requested amount of $7.7 million.
um, and so at this time, I'll ask staff to come forward
to talk about that property. I'll ask
the chairman of the green space committee, mike shane, to come forward
to talk about that property. Mr. Chairman, lately, I feel like I'm your
unpaid staff, here, but,
uh, with your permission, mr. Chairman, just to, so, uh, uh, this,
to be clear, what today, my expectation today was
council asked, and you graciously offered to allow to have
an additional input session on the two projects
that are on the, on the agenda. Green space met on friday
at council last monday, council asked green space to
give one additional review of this particular project, then with the town of hilton head,
the applicant being the town on that information. Information
was discussed. For full disclosure, I was not in attendance on friday.
I apologize, I was out of town. But the green space committee retains
the recommendation to council that'll take place next week. So
we'll bring, so council will review this as an action for next monday night
to retain the recommendation of the seven point up to $7.7 million
to the town of hilton for the acquisition of the broad creek marina.
okay. Um, any question of mr.
shane? I think mr. Um, ,
you had some question earlier about the,
um, due diligence, the appraisal, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh,
you, uh, has it been satisfied? Yeah, I'm, I'm good on that front
right now. A comment, uh, at the, uh, chat with counsel, um,
last thursday, I think, wasn't it? You have the, uh, there were four members of
the hilton head town council there, and they expressed their great enthusiasm and a high desire
to have this matter go forward because they are
concerned about the, uh, matter of growth on marshland road because the,
um, the, um, zoning there would allow for about
200 rooftops on the nine acres with the
additional consideration that the buildings could be 70 feet high,
which would make them mall about,
that would certainly be out of character for that area on westland road as it connects
over to the cross island parkway. That's the area. Can't hear you, larry.
talking to mike. Okay. , do I have to start over?
no. Okay, good. No. Okay. So, um, I just will, I will just
mention that the, uh, the four members of, um, of the town council, each
one of them took a turn to say how important this was for them and the future
over there as they see it developing. Okay.
okay. Uh, anything else? Mr. Anybody else have any
questions? Okay, now will go ahead. So I'll reiterate what
mr. Mcallen said. The four council members from hilton head were there thursday night
and express their, uh, interest that we do put this forward.
they purchase the land, they're paying half, this would be half from green space,
which as mr. Mcshane has noted, is kind of a step forward, because
in the past, they, we have green space, has paid all of it. They're very,
um, concerned that we do preserve this land. We heard it from all four
of them. And so that is on the table for everyone to
consider. And vice chairman, if I may add, uh, opportunities
for governmental entities to acquire waterfront
land today, that then allows public access to
the waterfront, in this case, to the, to the river.
uh, and creeks is another benefit that explicitly
is what the state of south carolina has been looking to try to do, because
that, if you think, if you, as a native south carolinian,
I offer for consideration 50 years ago,
it was not uncommon that even on private lands, people had access to
the water. That has demonstrably changed and evolved
culturally with the transition and ownership, that has become much
more difficult for many of the public to get access, particularly on
the private lands. And I'm, and I'm not here to, uh, suggest
private lands that are not doing what they should do. It's because a lot of it comes with a
liability aspect. Um, from that, that being said, that
anytime that a public entity can, uh, provide
additional access, I think is a benefit for generations to come. It's
not just today. This is something that'll be for generations not yet here
that will benefit from in that area particular,
I understand we're not, we're not gonna take any action on no, there's no action. Mr.
chairman, my understanding is this re this opportunity for counsel to take an action will
be on monday night yes. At your full counsel meeting. But the purpose today
was green space, did follow through, had a review, thank you to the
vice chairman of this committee. Mm-hmm . Serving in my steed on friday
for running the green space committee and the, as the recommendation stands.
right. And so we're gonna, um, entertain the second,
um, discussion item here, which is the resolution authorizing
the county administrator to execute the documents necessary to provide funds
for the procurement by the applicant, the nature conservancy, for the
acquisition of free simple real estate property in the town of bluffton, known
as the new river forest. Uh, and the
pin number is r 6 14 0 4 5 0 0 0 0 0 19, 0, 0, 0 0
and r, um, three, I mean 6 10 0 44 0, 0 0 1 2 6, 0 0 0 0,
not to exceed the requested amount of 42,000. Um,
um, 42 million. I'm, I'm, I'm just a little bit, yeah,
just a little bit. . 42 million. Um, mr. Han,
um, this is a recommendation coming from the green space. Yes, sir. And as, and
as uh, described, uh, last week, uh, council asked green
space to go back and, and provide some additional, uh,
uh, in sufficient information for council, which I believe
I'm asking mr. Chairman just an, uh, affirmation that, that my understanding that information
was presented both to the national resource committee and will be available
to all council members. That included some detail that
was asked. And I'm just gonna highlight a couple points that the public has brought
to the attention of council. There was a number of, uh, discussions about public
access to this track to confirm it's not going to go
through pennett bluff, that there will be recorded covenants
intended to prohibit public access through pennett
bluff. That the forestry commission, which I have a representative, a senior representative
of the commission in here again this evening, and will be again here next week.
uh, it will continue to manage the wildlife population on this property, including
managing the hunting activities that are already occurring on this property,
that the com, that the plan would be for the commission to take ownership
after, uh, appropriate approvals by the state joint bond review commission and the
forestry commission, and will maintain it as a self-sustaining state forest, which
is their mission across the state. This then
would ent entail the new river track? We remain undeveloped, preserved in a manner consistent
with his current use. As many you recall being on site,
you saw the current use, you saw the road structure through that, you saw the managed
forest through that property. And then the forestry commission, I believe,
will be, uh, genuine in their sustainability of
that by then developing a management plan that will take
into consideration the public comments that have been made to date.
so what's been made today will be part of their record to take into consideration
as well as what has moved forward. So it doesn't end today. Mr. Chairman, I wanna be clear, it doesn't even
end next monday when counsel takes an action, you are taken
in action to provide the funding that allows the state to catch
up of at least 20 million of the 42 million,
and certainly doesn't prohibit that, um, uh, the
state pursue some additional dollars that may even shrink that difference
beyond that. And it put some timeframes. So the, the discussion
that took place on friday at green space is going
to add a few, wor a few verbiage to the resolution.
and mr. Chairman, your permission, I'm gonna read the resolution, please.
green space advisory committee recommends that beaufort county council approve
a grant not to exceed the requested amount of 42 million to
the applicant, the nature conservancy, who has a representative here
to assist the applicant in the acquisition of the new river forest properties, subject
to an agreement by the applicant applicant agreeing
to pursue all available federal and state grants, which will be used
to reimburse the green space program in the anticipated amount
of at least $20 million. At least $20 million
applicant will play, will place covenants and restrictions
or a conservation easement protecting the property in a form reasonably
acceptable to the county. Within three years, you will
have a chance to see that that document,
I believe will be a conservation easement, will be in perpetuity.
that's what gives the, the strength that to the citizens, that that
property is going to stay in the, in the acceptable reasonable condition it's
in today. And the applicant will convey the property to the south carolina forestry
commission within three years or sooner, shall
and shall otherwise be required, if not, will be required to convey the
property to the county, subject to the conservation easement.
the subject to the conservation easement on the end of that resolution is what is
the green space is recommending to be added to the resolution, working with your council
to do so, to give the public confidence that whether it ends up
at the forestry commission, most likely, or in the,
I would say the least chance, but to the county, there'll be an
easement on that property,
even though we know the debate about that the development agreement runs
through. And its debate on whether it's 33 48 or 57.
I'm sort of agnostic to the date because there's an end date. We know that
development agreements already seen at least six
revisions, certainly subject to it again. And
what I hope and what green space has done is not think about just the next 30
years. Think about 30 years ago, many in this room may not even been here 30 years ago,
much less, even shorter time than that. You're doing this
to provide this for citizens who are not even here today.
most of us isn't room in, in 2057, may likely not
be participating in going on a trail on new river ,
but we know that there's gonna be generations that will,
that's what you're doing. This is what green space has done. This is why I
commend this county and its voters to create this. Had you not
done this program, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because
the state's not in a position today to do all this at one time.
think about it. The reason we're able to do this is because we have a willing
entity, the nature conservancy, to go negotiate a bargain
sale on a track, because you can provide the financing
and take the time to receive at least 20 million of it back
is, enables this really to be something that can occur
had it not been for green space in this county. And the wisdom of your voters to
put this program in place. And I live in a county that I wish desperately had this type
of program, would never, it just
wouldn't, it wouldn't occur. Yeah. And at some point,
whether we're here or not, that property is subject to being,
so please accept my premise. Development agreements do not protect
property. The o zoning does not
protect property plan development agreements,
et cetera. None of that protects a conservation easement in
perpetuity assures the community of the sustainability
of the, of the condition of that property going forward. And the fact that it'll have state ownership
means you don't even have to worry about that portion of the development agreement going forward.
okay. Any, anything else mr. Hin? Believe
I wanna open up to council members to ask a question. Sure. And I believe council got, there was a question about the appraisal,
that app, the appraisal was produced and I believe it had and has been, uh,
uh, allowed. It has been made public, uh, right. So, uh, I
don't think there's, there's no, there's no hidden facts here, um,
to this. So, mr. Chairman, I'll, uh, answer any questions from your council members, committee
members, excuse me. I'm, I'm going to pass along something that came
from some of the residents who are online. If we could show
them again, um, their question that, one of the questions
is who's gonna pay for ingress roads to go
into there? Because there is no road right now. So all state
properties, they will have to, that capital will come through the state
agency. So whether it be the department of natural resources, parks, recreation and tourism,
or forestry, which are the three principle resource agencies, that
has to be part of their plan and they will have to provide the capital
to do so. Okay. What's fortunate here is outside the
immediate access, you've got tremendous road infrastructure already on this
property. So the capital to get access
is gonna be, I think, gonna be fairly minimal for the commission to do
that and to add the 800 acres that the county currently owns
into that, because access for that right now, frankly, most people in the county didn't even know you
have the 800 acres. I would not being snarky here, I don't
think most of the council knew you had 800 acres right there
that will then permit even greater access for that property because
it was tied up. And really the, really, the access problem was part of the problem
having the ownership. So their other question, is it,
will it provide a financial burden to the town of bluffton for
law enforcement emt and fire services? I'm just passing along
the question. Yes, ma'am. I understand madam vice chairman, that you're just the messenger on that. No more so
than it does today. Understand.
in fact, I would argue that putting this property under easement means
you know exactly how much you'd ever have to invest in that versus
what subject to a change in the development agreement. And having residential
even no matter what it is, is only proven factually
that that adds to your operating expenses.
yes. Thanks for mentioning that. The appraisal had been released. There was some confusion
with regard to, uh, a number of $8 million, uh, versus the
purchase price that's been negotiated here, $42 million. And that appraisal
was sent out, uh, uh, on the agenda link so that everybody who read
that was able to hit that link and pull up the entire agenda, which consisted
of how many pages? 46, 50 pages, something like
that. Yeah. So all of that is available online for anybody who wants to, uh,
review it. And secondly, I'll just make a comment, I think in
the history, uh, of beaufort county, which is rather, uh, lengthy,
I don't think that there's been a legacy project like this in the history of this
county where this much land has been purchased and set aside for future
public use. And quite frankly, I think it may be the largest one
in the history of the entire state of the four
outside the, um, land that's already in, um, in
the, uh, forestry commission that's being maintained by them.
this is a remarkable undertaking and one that I think will stand
to mr. Vice chairman. Just to be fair to
some of our colleagues, there have been some other larger projects
in the state history, but this is certainly in recent history, one of the largest projects
that'll be undertaken. Mr. Chairman? Yes.
in our packet on page, uh, 1 1 1, there's, uh, information
that, uh, was prepared recently and it was available at the
green space meeting last friday. That goes into why
this is so important to, uh, not only beaufort county, but the state,
and I would argue the whole region in the southeast. Um,
and it talks about the management by the forestry commission. Uh,
they, they, they can do this, this project will be a legacy
for generations to come. And, um, I have a 10-year-old
and a 12-year-old grandchildren, and I hope that they will have access to this
so that they can, there's no other property that they can go on.
um, when they get to the age and they, and they like to do it now,
roam the woods, they, they can do that on this property and it
will be a legacy for generations. Thank you. Any
other council members? Yes, mr. ?
yeah, david's fine. . Um, all right. So going through this, um,
the appraisal, where did the value for the timber
generate? Was that solely from the broker? From the listing broker,
with your permission, I'm gonna ask a resource here. It's with their forrester.
do you mind, just so we can get the record, introduce yourself. Uh, and
hello david bishop in nature conservancy. It, the timber was
provided by their long-term forester stro morrison at estel. I believe
the es I don't know if it's on y'all's appraisal, but the one we have here says it from the listing broker
provided from the forester through the broker to us, it's not uncommon,
ms. Barolo is, you know that any, any time you're looking at a large timber track, that,
that a broker would have that information, but it would come from a certified forester,
which mr. Morrison is, and he served on the forestry commission in
an appointed role in pass. So I, I'd have confidence in his numbers.
and, uh, last thing, if I may, uh, the nature con, uh,
the nature conservancy, I believe they were all involved in the,
in the three comps that are listed. Is that correct? In some capacity,
yes, sir. Because I believe some of the comps are some of the jasper county sites that are in with proximity.
so chelsea, uh, gregory neck, et cetera. And did anybody justify
the, the location premium that was put on it for
proximity and the highest and best use of the land in the appraisal?
it seems like there was some, some little bit of guesswork done in the
appraisal, and I know, I know it's a kind of a calculated, there's a little bit of an
art in the science to that, and I have confidence in the appraisal process. The
appraiser has got a good reputation in, in on that, and the state has used that appraiser
before on other tracks outside this area. So
I believe that's all I had right now. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure with the, the highest
and best use of the land, the way that was calculated with it being 31, 32
years out from no development, are we looking at speculative development in the future
based that we're basing this price on versus what it is now?
and, and I, I think that makes a difference there. And also when you look at the timber value,
I think that could make a different, uh, different for the overall price and price per acre.
I think ms. Barolo, you have a point, but I, I, I'll point out again, that development agreement
is subject to at the whim of a town council. That could change very rapidly.
and I guess my, I'll ask if I may last question. Go ahead. Um, have we, have,
we, and I think buying it for public use is, is the best thing
to do, but did we approach, um,
buying the contract, the development agreement from the town of bluffton or, or inserting ourself
in some capacity on that front? We did not. We, there was some discussion
about whether it was a purchase of development rights or just
a, just a landowner hold, taking an easement and the landowner retaining, or a private landowner
retaining it. But the, the current owner has decided they wanna sell.
and I think that drove, that really drives the equation from that point forward.
thank you. Yep. Um, mr. Lawson, go ahead. I, again,
I represent that area to preserve this, but you know, I've, I've been asked
some pretty tough questions. And again, these aren't def directly to you, mr.
mcshane, but, um, I've had people question on the appraisal that's
there, even though it's done by a, a, a certified person that does appraisals is a
fact that, you know, 1,575 acres of this is actually
king's grant marshland, which could, nothing could be done with that in the
future anyhow. So if you pull that out, I mean, right now we're paying about 9,000
an acre when you consider the total acreage, yes, sir, total acreage. But when you're looking at what,
to your point, what one could do is wha out on that king's grant,
that's what you, that's the value of as, as someone owns king grant land. The value I have
in that is I can prevent any warpage occurring on it. Someone cannot put
a dock as an example on, I could object to that,
but, but you're not gonna fill that in. The risk is that you've got other
freshwater wetlands on the upland portion of that, that are all subject to potential
fill, because you've had, as a council, had to deal with that in other developments.
so, hey, and that was, you're exactly right. And that was the, the kind of the questioning
of the appraisal that came in was if you back that out, well then we're actually paying
one and a half times more per acre than what the, the appraisal is, is
saying, if, if, again, you own it, but you can't do anything with it, except stop other people
from doing things with it. So that's the one, the one thing that's, that's been pushed at me by
many, many people in the bluffton area. Um, the second
thing is, um, is obviously right now the only access to this is off of
a private road, which is the new riverside drive, which,
which is owned by south street partners. And does that limit us? And again,
again, this might not be your question. 'cause again, um, it limit us or
the state from making it a park coming off of a private road like
that. Mr. Lawson, if you'll indulge me here a moment you want to, because
I know this, I sit closer to yeah. Um, it's
hard to sit back there and want to answer some of these questions you're doing, doing a good job, but there's some
details. So, uh, we gotta figure out the road issue, uh, through new riverside.
that is part of the due diligence period. So that is, uh, making sure
that we have that that is on the seller's responsibility, um,
to figure that out once we know exactly what the state needs. Uh, a couple things
about the appraisal, if I could address that. The marsh on the
county's appraisal, uh, had no bearing on the value. They excluded it,
they didn't put a value mark on it. I would argue that there is value in king's grant marsh that's
increasing every year with changing and mitigation. Um,
but right now they put $0 on it. And so what they came up with was the
non-title areas, and they came up with the value plus the timber.
the final thing is probably the one that, that, that keeps me, keeps me
up at night is the fact that, you know, um, uh, senator davis has done a great job
of providing for us and saying, doing what he says he's gonna
do. However, um, there is no absolute guarantee
that the money's gonna be coming from the state we we're told. It is, and
again, and I I mentioned this, I think before that the fact that you have, um, uh, ms.
yvette who's our, our governor or possible future
governor saying she wants to eliminate, um, south carolina income tax. And
if that happens, well that then changes the gamut of everything and money being spent on
all these other things. So that's probably my biggest thing is, is three years from now,
things could change, the climate could change, another covid happens, whatever it is, and we're
still there. We, we've put the whole 42 million forward thinking that we
were only gonna spend 20 million. Again, this isn't on you. This is just us trusting the system. I think it's
a fair point, mr. Lawson. There are no guarantees here. So yes, there is some risk. I
think the risks are very minimal. Risks are minimal because we have a great track record.
this has already been demonstrated to be a priority by the state forestry commission. The
general assembly is supporting that by allowing the budget to give
consideration of that to do so. So despite the fact that whether a candidate
claims that she's gonna, she or she's gonna get it to zero income tax
has to get a hundred and how many? 145 plus four,
but 190 members of the general assembly to go along with that, or the majority of
that to go along with that. So I I,
in 23 years as an appointment, and I realize I offer, no, I, I hope
what I offer is some credibility here in 23 years as an appointee
on state resource agencies, through
good times and very tough times, I've always seen these
come through. That's the best I can offer you right
now, that, that I have made this clear that this is clear. Senator who
chairs the senate finance natural resource committee have support of his counterpart
in the house. You have delegation members sitting on joint bond
review committee. You've got members, delegation members who are sitting on senate finance
members on house ways and means this I think, is a very
strong compelling case. Is there risk? Yes, sir. There's
risk that I'm gonna, when I drive back to charleston today, that when I get into charleston county, I'm gonna
get screwed up. It's all I could, there's
no guarantee on this. And I, I, yeah, yeah, I understand that, that that's,
I'm very appreciative of the fact that's, you pointed out, let's go into this with eyes wide open.
had you not had this ability, if you not had this program, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
this land would not be even for something we could consider. But what you've
done is you've set it up to have this opportunity, and this
is the opportunity. Thank you.
it will never be any less expensive than it is today. Yes, sir.
um, mr. Dawson, you have any question,
comments you wanna make at this time? No,
I, I would only say that, uh, you know, I was, uh, privileged to be a part
of the tour group that actually visited this site.
and I will tell you, this is a pristine piece of property and,
uh, worthy of us, uh, preserving it. So, uh, the deal that
is before us, I think is probably one of the best that we're going to
get. Um, but I, I, but I would say, uh, based
upon councilman lawson's, uh, comment, uh, the
issue that is before us and that the, uh, public
is going to hold us, uh, to, is that we're
spending, uh, we're spending
$42 million of public money,
uh, and the state is only going to, uh,
get us at least 20 million back. And so that's, that's
a difference of 22 million that, that we're actually investing
in this part, and the state is actually investing the other 22. So,
uh, that's, that's something that we're going to have to deal with. But other than that, I'm, I'm,
I'm all in favor of it. I'll support it. Hey, um,
22, uh, million, um, 20 million
I think I heard at least plus, at least 20 million at least. Yeah.
so I'm a, I'm a I I like that. May I give an example of what just occurred this
week on a program? Mm-hmm . That I, I want to pursue. This information
is quite fresh. The department
of interior of the federal government announced the distribution of 327 million in
formula grants on hundred 34 in competitive grants from the land water conservation
funds. That's the revenue that comes off the oil and gas leases offshore.
all 50 states have a chance to do that. It's for parks, playground trails,
and open spaces. It has to be a one-to-one match
so far. This literally was introduced on friday,
is an, is an example of the kind of programs that we're gonna go after
to help even take that, that at least 20 million to make
it a greater number than that. And this didn't even, this program
didn't exist until this past week.
so that's, that's the, that's the value of working with
somebody like the nature conservancy in this case, because they imminently qualify
to go help, uh, search out those kind of programs.
I'm as interested as anybody in this room to bring as much back, more than 20 million,
because then this extends the, the ability to do it on other projects right
now. But as pointed out, mr. Chairman, I don't believe there's another bigger project available
south of the broad in beaufort county.
okay. Um, one of the things I've learned, um, is that, um, if you are
in a position to receive particular federal funds,
um, a lot of, lot of other areas are not. And beaufort
county has always been in a position to receive federal funds. So,
and one of the things about federal funds, they're not gonna turn it back in. And so if you're
in a position that you really riding high, so I'm gonna ride with
you, man, at this time. Um, if there's no other
comments, questions from council, no. Um, I'm gonna
open it up to the public at this time. And so, um, I'm going, um,
because you came here, I only have one at this time
here. And then there are others on online
that wanted to, um, also maybe, uh, asking
or making comments. So I'm going to, um, um,
mr. Huff, john huff, um, he's with new
river, new riverside park. Um, that's the
topic. Oh yeah. Counsel, thank you
for your time. And I want to say
I like this project and I would love to see this thing
preserved. And, um, I emailed all of you last
week a bunch of documents, and I think you guys received them, and hopefully
you've reviewed them. You guys have commented on a bunch of things already
and just wanted to, uh, reiterate a couple things. Um,
biggest concern here is the purchase price we're talking about is $42 million.
um, I've sent every one of you a master deed from the wall cam family
from when this property was transferred over to pioneer land back in
march 27th, 2025. Um, the wal cam family
signed an affidavit for this property. It has all the
tms numbers that you guys have referenced in that affidavit. They said the
fair mail value of this property was $8.715 million. I
mentioned that number last week to you guys. I've heard it referenced again today.
um, would like to know where that number came from.
is that the fair market value of this piece of property? And now, why is the state willing
to pay $42 million for this piece of property? When the owner signed an affidavit
recorded this at beaufort county rod, that they
thought the fair market value was $8.7 million. Um, and
then additionally it was brought up today that new riverside
is a private road that I happen to live off of. I live in the landings,
my hoa funds fund to re maintain
this road. Um, somebody from the state forestry commission said
there's a park just like this in columbia, and they see upwards
of 200,000 visitors a year there. Um, new riverside is
kind of located out in the middle of nowhere, so there's gonna
be a lot of people that drive there, come to this park via car.
um, there's gonna be a lot of additional traffic we see in an area that already sees a lot of traffic
up at the roundabout. Uh, I don't know if mr. Lawson's up there often, but
that traffic circle sees a lot of traffic. I live there, I drive through it every day. Um,
is there a plan to do a traffic study on new riverside road? Um, is that
road designed to accommodate another a hundred thousand people a year?
um, what, what is the plan for the state to fund and help
maintain a road that is privately owned and maintained by homeowners? And
is this gonna become another burden of mine that I have to pay more money
because we've got a park there and we don't have the funds to
maintain the road? Um, again, I love this project. Would love to see it preserved for
my, my kids and my future generations. We just hope you, uh,
take some consideration in our taxpayer funds. Thank you,
mr. Huff. Um, is there any other
no, sir. No, no one in the palm meadow bluff room is interested in commenting.
uh, okay. Um, would they introduce themselves and we'll
go from there. No one online was interested in commenting? Oh,
um, uh, yes ma'am. Please do. 'cause I'm gonna call back up.
I wanna reiterate what mr. Hof just said. That is a very
congested area. I I can't even explain how much at the circle.
and then down new riverside. And also there's a new elementary
school going in there. If you've ever gone to may river high school, you know, you're
sitting in traffic from now until forever. But I'm guessing
most people will not access this park at eight o'clock in the morning. I could be wrong.
you know, a lot of people get up early, but I understand his concern.
that is a highly congested area, and they do pay taxes to palmetto
bluff for their roads. So, mr. Chairman, can I make a comment? Um, as
part of the process, the south carolina forestry commission will do a management
plan, and there will be, and there I'm sure we'll do some estimates of
visitors, uh, based on what is the public wants to see
on this property. And I think from that you can ex uh,
come up with types of traffic generation and times of day.
but that would be all part of the management plan process when that happens. And,
um, if they're planning to build pavilions, are they planning to build, um,
anything permanent? I, I, I'm just talking out loud, but
um, you know, lots of visitors is great, but
you gotta be able to have the staff to manage the visitors too. So I would think
that would be part of the forestry commission's, uh, plans in the
future to let the public know what they plan to do there. And that might
alleviate mr. Huff's concerns. Just to comment, cameron, may I,
uh, we have a couple resources that I think can address a couple of the points that have
just been brought up. Oh, please do with your permission. Please do. Uh, first, uh,
I have a representative from the forestry commission. I think he can not only address the
specific issue, but talk a little more broadly about their process. This is mr. Phillips.
yeah, they know james douglas. Oh, douglas. I'm our state lands coordinator, so I oversee
all of our state property. Um, I spent 14 years on
manchester state forest, which is in sumter county, 28,000 acres,
um, managing that property. So well aware of public land management.
um, yeah, we would definitely take all the consideration of the neighbors
into consideration of what type of recreation they would want to have there.
um, the count, the beaufort county on other properties
we just bought are against equestrian recreation. So we wouldn't
have that on the property unless the local residents wanna have it. We have
equestrian, we have ohv, we have dirt bikes,
bicycles, we do a little bit of everything. And we, we
would work with the locals to provide whatever type of recreation they want.
um, this area is very heavily populated
and most of the use, I'll tell you will come from that neighborhood that's adjacent
to the property. Um, I know the traffic, there's a high school there
and talking about elementary school there. So you're already bringing in people that don't pay for that road
that are using it. And I know the high school has a signed
a, um, a use agreement to use that road. So we're looking into
something similar. Hey, um,
one of the things I, you know, I would note that, um, the purchase
of this property would give us 13 miles of riverfront,
uh, frontage. And with the previous property, I think that's
five miles of riverfront. So you're looking at almost 18 miles of riverfront.
I mean, if nothing else, kayaking, canoeing,
I mean yes, sir. Yeah. But anyway, you
yeah. And the question was asked about law enforcement. So the far street commission, we do have our own
law enforcement officers. That's true. And we were work with department of natural resources
and their law enforcement on that property as well. Hey, quick question. I'm
sorry, mr. I'll get you next. Oh, sorry. You can go ahead. It's just two questions.
one is, um, when you are, uh, when
you're engaging in the partnership, operat a partnership operation, uh, in
the eventuality, this all is accomplished. You'll be doing a, uh, timber census
and you'll also be doing a planned public, uh, uh, a public
planning process. How long does that public planning process take?
and who will be involved in that beside the people from the forestry commission?
so we, we bring in all partners, and it's not just a limited,
we're gonna do it for 12 months and it's over. It's an ongoing process year
after year if the residents change their mind and wanna see something different,
we're, we're open to changing with the times, but there'll be an opportunity
for the residents there to have input into the public planning process
that will be undertaken as you develop the management plan for this particular
piece of property. Yes, sir. And all of our properties also certified to sustainable
forestry initiative, which means we have, we can't cut more timber than
we're growing. So the whole idea of the program is sustainable forestry.
um, haron state forest was mentioned earlier in columbia is a big recreational
educational forest. We have a group called friends of haron state forest. It
is a local group that have created a, um, 5 0 1
c3 nonprofit, and they work with us to put in trails, maintain
trails. We work with them on any kind of management we got going on. We let them know
ahead of time, hey, we're gonna be doing this. And they can have input throughout the whole process.
okay. Thank you very much mr. . Yeah. Just to go
back and, and try to answer one of the questions that was brought up here, the $8,715,000,
uh, land transaction, that was actually an internal transfer between the family
members and partners, uh, that, that held the land. Also another,
uh, transfer of 3,270,000 for another parcel.
so it wasn't just one transfer, it was two transfers inside of this. And it's actually for anybody
interested, it's on page three of the appraisal and it talks about the statement of ownership.
so I just wanted to put that out there 'cause I had that same question when I heard the, the 8 million
transfer as well. Well, I appreciate you addressing 'cause uh, uh, it's unfortunate, I think
that a number got out and, and was maybe misunderstood that that
was an appraised value. That was, as you said, an internal asset reallocation, which
is not uncommon, uh, at times when, uh, families move assets around.
well, yes sir. I mean it's, it's a, it is a method
of, of, uh, frankly, wealth management. Um,
and that is not uncommon in this county to do that.
I got one, one more, one more tough question for you. Um, the 340
acres that's in the southern part of, of the 3000
above and 340 on the southern park, do we have access to that? Is
there, is there a way to get to that or how, how is, 'cause you look at it right now and it looks
like we don't have, it's gonna not contiguous. Um, and we're
not gonna have access to that, the southern 340 acres. So just for the records,
david bishop nature conservancy, go ahead david. Thank you. Um,
yeah, so you're referring to south of the square
on that? Yeah, it's back a couple. I have not
set foot on there. I'm, I've looked at more of a, I think you have to be a
pig to get through there. It's just thick swampy, it's river buffer
and on the east side of that is a new golf course.
um, and so, no, I don't see that being
a public access. Uh, I see the river buffer and the aesthetics
from the river being important, the water quality benefits. I think this is the type of thing that
as the forestry commission and the land trust, which will hold an easement
become more familiar, they codify that in the terms of the
easement and the forest uses. So, um,
is there any access at all though, even before I'm looking
at it? I think that's to be determined. We have not determined what the
use is or the access is. The buffers square goes out into
the, the saltwater marsh. Correct. So there,
other than going through the marsh itself, which we're not gonna be able to put an access through there,
we don't, unless you've got an easement someplace else through their,
their property, we don't, there's no access or it's gonna be landlocked.
well, I think you can access a little bit, I think from a management safety standpoint,
if needed, you have one road access there that you see that yellow line, you could
hit the corner of it, but it's really, I don't think you would want
to access it because it's, it's not accessible land. It's swampy
shrub. Go ahead. I ju I just wanted to add too, we have
a lot of users access properties straight from river. So you can
come up the river and access that property for whatever your recreational
pleasure is, whether you just wanna get in the pluff mud or you want to look
for oysters or you want to bird watch. Um, so you can come
up the river and access that piece of property. The best, um, example
of what you put in here is the, the, the map right before the picture, sarah.
so the pic, the pic, the pictures start
going down.
so if you look, the two ones are what we're purchasing, and in between there's the square
you mentioned, um, and the, the gray area is
actually salt water marsh, which you would yeah. That we couldn't put a road through there.
so we really don't have a a, an access
or, or a road to, to get there.
it's pretty far off the marsh there to have river access.
just again, I, I I'm all for this, but I'm trying to be the devil's advocates. I wanna hit
everything and prove why we're doing this and making sure it makes sense. Mr. Watson
always thought of you as an angel, not a devil. Talk to my wife and
then I don't know that we are gonna have the
perfect answer today on that.
I think the overall, what I think council, I ask council
to give this consideration. We got a once in a time opportunity here.
perfection sometimes can be the enemy of some good work.
the good work right there is that you're not gonna have at any time
the threat of having anything change on that. And at this
point, from a wildlife standpoint, that might be the best use of that
as it really becomes a wildlife sanctuary because of everything
else being, uh, developed and turned into more of an urban landscape.
that that is what wildlife is looking for. And you might be providing
some of that just by that 340 acres. Not to take away from
fact, but if 10% of this track
of the upland side is, is not necessarily
a park access, you're still doing a benefit through the ecosystem.
okay. Any other comments or questions?
um, there is no other public comments. Um,
nothing at palmetto bluff again. One more time. Oh,
he's, somebody's coming up. Yeah. Okay, good.
go. Go ahead sir. The room is muted there. Just gimme your name.
we can't hear you. We,
we are not hearing anything. Where's
our
yes mr. Chairman, while they're, just, while they're working on that for that gentleman,
uh, there'll be another opportunity monday evening. This will be on
your council agenda, both projects. You have a public comment section again
on monday evening, I believe that starts at 6:00 pm mm-hmm .
and the modifications to the resolution on new river was simply to,
as subject to the, to the conservation easement, no matter whether it's forestry
commission or county owned on that. Brian am I, I just want
to confirm with your counsel that it is accurate. Okay.
mr. Rothenberg, can you, no,
we still cannot hear you. Um, broadcast is right there.
are they texting you, sarah broadcast or alex texting?
audio test.
we're gonna have to bring down the room. Have to bring down the room.
sarah, we could send them our telephone number and if they have a phone in the room, maybe they
could call and we could put it on speaker for the presentation. Alright,
that is all right. How's the audio? Now you go.
it's good. Thank you.
y'all can hear me now? Yes. Yes. Okay,
great. Sorry. Sorry for that. I have a simple question that's
been passed around palmetto bluff over the last week. As I've spoken to my friends
and other community members, and while we appreciate what
the honorable senator has promised and represented,
I'm wondering how we can make sure that those promises
are entered into the record at the time that the deed
is transferred or whatever the mechanisms of the real estate
transaction are, so that we can be assured that
those promises are, are, are kept. And, and also
a specific question with recent comps that the
nature conservancy was involved in. And I know they're
all different and separate transactions, but there have been times when
the conservancy has sold off parts or parcels of the land that
they have bought for, for whatever reason. And can we be sure
no land will be sold off to a private developer,
um, for, for any reason? And can this be
memorialized into the, into the transaction from the get go, which
will ease the anxiety of people having to wait for the three years or whatever the timeframe
is before it's in quotes official. Thanks.
you, you bring up the audio. Thank you mr. Rothenberg. Um,
mr. Mccain is going to address that question right now.
uh, mr. Chairman, could I just have confirmation that they can hear me in the palmetto bluff? You hear
us there? Yes. Yes. Okay.
so, so this should give ultimate consideration
to the residents to have confidence that this will occur. That, that the nature conservancy
will not sell this to another private landowner because your resolution
that you pass to fund this stipulates the applicant
will not only place the covenants restrictions, but is agreeing to purchase
to, uh, uh, convey the property to the forestry commission
within that three years, or it comes to the county. We ask for the three years
simply to allow to get through the due diligence of legislation to get the
reimbursement and, uh, any other potential grants that we
have we're gonna pursue. So the fact that you adopt that resolution, I think
les counsel says otherwise that the, that that locks
'cause the covenant agreement on the grant will lock the nature conservancy into
only transferring this to the forestry commission or to the county.
it would prohibit them from selling it to any other party.
I'm gonna ask your, your counsel to just affirm my statement. Mr.
thank you. Okay. ? Yes. He said yes. Yeah. And so
I hope the gentleman heard that. The,
he said yes. Thank you. Yes, do, yes. Okay. . Anybody else
there? Yeah, go ahead. Anybody else there?
okay. Um, I,
we have resolved this and, um,
this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.