[0:07] I'm gonna call the, uh, natural resource, uh, committee, special call, meeting to
[0:12] order. Uh, would you rise with me for the pledge of allegiance?
[0:18] I pledge allegiance to the flag nation, united states of america,
[0:22] and to the republic, republic for which it stands, one nation, one nation under
[0:27] invisible with liberty and justice for all.
[0:32] uh, thank you. Um, this is a special call meeting
[0:36] because there were some, uh, community concerns,
[0:40] uh, on, on, on major one major project,
[0:44] uh, which is the palmetto bluff. I call it the palmetto bluff. And,
[0:49] um, there was also counsel, uh, ask, um,
[0:53] it, the, the second one that deals with, um, hilton head on
[0:57] hilton head, uh, to come back, um, with more due
[1:01] diligence. And I think that's something that can be handled, is being handled by council
[1:06] at, I mean, by staff at this time. But it's on the agenda, um,
[1:10] for public comment as well. There is no need for any action
[1:14] on this party at this time, simply because, um,
[1:19] uh, the action is already man, uh, mandated to come
[1:23] back to council on the 22nd, uh,
[1:27] meeting to be on the agenda. Um, this right here,
[1:31] the day was just to hear concerns about the palmetto
[1:35] bluff property. And if anybody has, uh, other concerns,
[1:40] um, for the, um, the, the property on
[1:44] hilton head, um, we can entertain or can, uh, hear
[1:48] from them as well. Um, what I going
[1:52] to, oh, me, let me do this. Um,
[1:57] the, uh, freedom of information all notification
[2:02] was sent out. Yes, sir, it was. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. I'm gonna read the agenda
[2:06] and then, uh, I need the approval of the agenda. So, um, at this time,
[2:10] uh, I entertain a motion to approve the agenda. I'll upon motion that
[2:14] ms. Tabernac is motion a second. I'll
[2:18] second. Um, doc, I mean, who's mr. Passman? Oh,
[2:22] okay. Mr. Passman is seconded, and I'd like to make an amendment to the agenda
[2:26] at the appropriate time. Um, okay. Is the motion to approve the
[2:31] agenda then, mrs. Howard, do you have a, uh, amendment?
[2:35] I do. I'd like to make a motion, uh, to amend the agenda to add an item
[2:40] number seven, so that additional comments by staff or the
[2:44] chairman of the green space committee can be done after the public comment period.
[2:48] okay. Is there a second to that? Second. Second. Okay. Is the property motion to
[2:52] send and second it that we add an additional comment
[2:57] from the staff and the committee, um,
[3:01] the green space committee. Uh, any question, those in favor,
[3:05] please indicate by raising the hand. Okay.
[3:10] mr. Mr. Passman, are you? Yes. Yes. Okay. And mr. Dawson
[3:14] has voted yes in the confirmation, in the affirmative. So it's unanimous
[3:18] at this time? Yes, sir. Um, eight. Now, the motion as amended,
[3:23] uh, is on the floor, uh, to approve the agenda as amended. Those
[3:27] in favor, please indicate by raising the hand. And mr. Dawson, thank
[3:31] you. It is unanimous. Um, this time, uh, the
[3:35] chair will hear, um, the
[3:39] item eight a a, um, um,
[3:44] which resolution authorizing the county administrator to execute the
[3:48] documents necessary and to provide funds to contribute to the
[3:52] procurement by the applicant, which is the tong of hilton head island
[3:57] for the acquisition of fee. Simple, real, real property located on hilton
[4:01] head island, known as the broad creek marina track.
[4:06] and it has, um, the pin number r 5 10, 0 1 1 0 0 0 0, 0 0 6, 0 0 0,
[4:17] not to exceed the requested amount of $7.7 million.
[4:22] um, and so at this time, I'll ask staff to come forward
[4:27] to talk about that property. I'll ask
[4:31] the chairman of the green space committee, mike shane, to come forward
[4:35] to talk about that property. Mr. Chairman, lately, I feel like I'm your
[4:39] unpaid staff, here, but,
[4:44] uh, with your permission, mr. Chairman, just to, so, uh, uh, this,
[4:49] to be clear, what today, my expectation today was
[4:53] council asked, and you graciously offered to allow to have
[4:57] an additional input session on the two projects
[5:01] that are on the, on the agenda. Green space met on friday
[5:06] at council last monday, council asked green space to
[5:10] give one additional review of this particular project, then with the town of hilton head,
[5:14] the applicant being the town on that information. Information
[5:18] was discussed. For full disclosure, I was not in attendance on friday.
[5:23] I apologize, I was out of town. But the green space committee retains
[5:27] the recommendation to council that'll take place next week. So
[5:31] we'll bring, so council will review this as an action for next monday night
[5:36] to retain the recommendation of the seven point up to $7.7 million
[5:41] to the town of hilton for the acquisition of the broad creek marina.
[5:47] okay. Um, any question of mr.
[5:51] shane? I think mr. Um, ,
[5:56] you had some question earlier about the,
[6:00] um, due diligence, the appraisal, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh,
[6:04] you, uh, has it been satisfied? Yeah, I'm, I'm good on that front
[6:09] right now. A comment, uh, at the, uh, chat with counsel, um,
[6:13] last thursday, I think, wasn't it? You have the, uh, there were four members of
[6:17] the hilton head town council there, and they expressed their great enthusiasm and a high desire
[6:21] to have this matter go forward because they are
[6:26] concerned about the, uh, matter of growth on marshland road because the,
[6:30] um, the, um, zoning there would allow for about
[6:35] 200 rooftops on the nine acres with the
[6:39] additional consideration that the buildings could be 70 feet high,
[6:43] which would make them mall about,
[6:47] that would certainly be out of character for that area on westland road as it connects
[6:51] over to the cross island parkway. That's the area. Can't hear you, larry.
[6:57] talking to mike. Okay. , do I have to start over?
[7:01] no. Okay, good. No. Okay. So, um, I just will, I will just
[7:05] mention that the, uh, the four members of, um, of the town council, each
[7:09] one of them took a turn to say how important this was for them and the future
[7:14] over there as they see it developing. Okay.
[7:18] okay. Uh, anything else? Mr. Anybody else have any
[7:22] questions? Okay, now will go ahead. So I'll reiterate what
[7:26] mr. Mcallen said. The four council members from hilton head were there thursday night
[7:31] and express their, uh, interest that we do put this forward.
[7:36] they purchase the land, they're paying half, this would be half from green space,
[7:40] which as mr. Mcshane has noted, is kind of a step forward, because
[7:44] in the past, they, we have green space, has paid all of it. They're very,
[7:49] um, concerned that we do preserve this land. We heard it from all four
[7:53] of them. And so that is on the table for everyone to
[7:57] consider. And vice chairman, if I may add, uh, opportunities
[8:03] for governmental entities to acquire waterfront
[8:07] land today, that then allows public access to
[8:11] the waterfront, in this case, to the, to the river.
[8:15] uh, and creeks is another benefit that explicitly
[8:20] is what the state of south carolina has been looking to try to do, because
[8:24] that, if you think, if you, as a native south carolinian,
[8:29] I offer for consideration 50 years ago,
[8:33] it was not uncommon that even on private lands, people had access to
[8:37] the water. That has demonstrably changed and evolved
[8:42] culturally with the transition and ownership, that has become much
[8:46] more difficult for many of the public to get access, particularly on
[8:50] the private lands. And I'm, and I'm not here to, uh, suggest
[8:55] private lands that are not doing what they should do. It's because a lot of it comes with a
[8:59] liability aspect. Um, from that, that being said, that
[9:03] anytime that a public entity can, uh, provide
[9:07] additional access, I think is a benefit for generations to come. It's
[9:11] not just today. This is something that'll be for generations not yet here
[9:16] that will benefit from in that area particular,
[9:20] I understand we're not, we're not gonna take any action on no, there's no action. Mr.
[9:25] chairman, my understanding is this re this opportunity for counsel to take an action will
[9:29] be on monday night yes. At your full counsel meeting. But the purpose today
[9:33] was green space, did follow through, had a review, thank you to the
[9:37] vice chairman of this committee. Mm-hmm . Serving in my steed on friday
[9:41] for running the green space committee and the, as the recommendation stands.
[9:46] right. And so we're gonna, um, entertain the second,
[9:50] um, discussion item here, which is the resolution authorizing
[9:54] the county administrator to execute the documents necessary to provide funds
[9:58] for the procurement by the applicant, the nature conservancy, for the
[10:02] acquisition of free simple real estate property in the town of bluffton, known
[10:06] as the new river forest. Uh, and the
[10:11] pin number is r 6 14 0 4 5 0 0 0 0 0 19, 0, 0, 0 0
[10:20] and r, um, three, I mean 6 10 0 44 0, 0 0 1 2 6, 0 0 0 0,
[10:31] not to exceed the requested amount of 42,000. Um,
[10:35] um, 42 million. I'm, I'm, I'm just a little bit, yeah,
[10:39] just a little bit. . 42 million. Um, mr. Han,
[10:43] um, this is a recommendation coming from the green space. Yes, sir. And as, and
[10:48] as uh, described, uh, last week, uh, council asked green
[10:52] space to go back and, and provide some additional, uh,
[10:56] uh, in sufficient information for council, which I believe
[11:00] I'm asking mr. Chairman just an, uh, affirmation that, that my understanding that information
[11:05] was presented both to the national resource committee and will be available
[11:09] to all council members. That included some detail that
[11:13] was asked. And I'm just gonna highlight a couple points that the public has brought
[11:17] to the attention of council. There was a number of, uh, discussions about public
[11:21] access to this track to confirm it's not going to go
[11:25] through pennett bluff, that there will be recorded covenants
[11:29] intended to prohibit public access through pennett
[11:34] bluff. That the forestry commission, which I have a representative, a senior representative
[11:38] of the commission in here again this evening, and will be again here next week.
[11:43] uh, it will continue to manage the wildlife population on this property, including
[11:47] managing the hunting activities that are already occurring on this property,
[11:52] that the com, that the plan would be for the commission to take ownership
[11:56] after, uh, appropriate approvals by the state joint bond review commission and the
[12:00] forestry commission, and will maintain it as a self-sustaining state forest, which
[12:04] is their mission across the state. This then
[12:08] would ent entail the new river track? We remain undeveloped, preserved in a manner consistent
[12:12] with his current use. As many you recall being on site,
[12:16] you saw the current use, you saw the road structure through that, you saw the managed
[12:20] forest through that property. And then the forestry commission, I believe,
[12:25] will be, uh, genuine in their sustainability of
[12:29] that by then developing a management plan that will take
[12:33] into consideration the public comments that have been made to date.
[12:37] so what's been made today will be part of their record to take into consideration
[12:42] as well as what has moved forward. So it doesn't end today. Mr. Chairman, I wanna be clear, it doesn't even
[12:46] end next monday when counsel takes an action, you are taken
[12:50] in action to provide the funding that allows the state to catch
[12:54] up of at least 20 million of the 42 million,
[12:58] and certainly doesn't prohibit that, um, uh, the
[13:03] state pursue some additional dollars that may even shrink that difference
[13:07] beyond that. And it put some timeframes. So the, the discussion
[13:11] that took place on friday at green space is going
[13:16] to add a few, wor a few verbiage to the resolution.
[13:20] and mr. Chairman, your permission, I'm gonna read the resolution, please.
[13:24] green space advisory committee recommends that beaufort county council approve
[13:28] a grant not to exceed the requested amount of 42 million to
[13:32] the applicant, the nature conservancy, who has a representative here
[13:37] to assist the applicant in the acquisition of the new river forest properties, subject
[13:41] to an agreement by the applicant applicant agreeing
[13:46] to pursue all available federal and state grants, which will be used
[13:50] to reimburse the green space program in the anticipated amount
[13:54] of at least $20 million. At least $20 million
[13:59] applicant will play, will place covenants and restrictions
[14:04] or a conservation easement protecting the property in a form reasonably
[14:08] acceptable to the county. Within three years, you will
[14:12] have a chance to see that that document,
[14:16] I believe will be a conservation easement, will be in perpetuity.
[14:21] that's what gives the, the strength that to the citizens, that that
[14:25] property is going to stay in the, in the acceptable reasonable condition it's
[14:29] in today. And the applicant will convey the property to the south carolina forestry
[14:34] commission within three years or sooner, shall
[14:38] and shall otherwise be required, if not, will be required to convey the
[14:42] property to the county, subject to the conservation easement.
[14:48] the subject to the conservation easement on the end of that resolution is what is
[14:52] the green space is recommending to be added to the resolution, working with your council
[14:57] to do so, to give the public confidence that whether it ends up
[15:01] at the forestry commission, most likely, or in the,
[15:06] I would say the least chance, but to the county, there'll be an
[15:10] easement on that property,
[15:14] even though we know the debate about that the development agreement runs
[15:19] through. And its debate on whether it's 33 48 or 57.
[15:24] I'm sort of agnostic to the date because there's an end date. We know that
[15:28] development agreements already seen at least six
[15:32] revisions, certainly subject to it again. And
[15:36] what I hope and what green space has done is not think about just the next 30
[15:41] years. Think about 30 years ago, many in this room may not even been here 30 years ago,
[15:46] much less, even shorter time than that. You're doing this
[15:50] to provide this for citizens who are not even here today.
[15:55] most of us isn't room in, in 2057, may likely not
[15:59] be participating in going on a trail on new river ,
[16:05] but we know that there's gonna be generations that will,
[16:10] that's what you're doing. This is what green space has done. This is why I
[16:14] commend this county and its voters to create this. Had you not
[16:18] done this program, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because
[16:22] the state's not in a position today to do all this at one time.
[16:28] think about it. The reason we're able to do this is because we have a willing
[16:32] entity, the nature conservancy, to go negotiate a bargain
[16:36] sale on a track, because you can provide the financing
[16:42] and take the time to receive at least 20 million of it back
[16:46] is, enables this really to be something that can occur
[16:50] had it not been for green space in this county. And the wisdom of your voters to
[16:54] put this program in place. And I live in a county that I wish desperately had this type
[16:58] of program, would never, it just
[17:02] wouldn't, it wouldn't occur. Yeah. And at some point,
[17:07] whether we're here or not, that property is subject to being,
[17:12] so please accept my premise. Development agreements do not protect
[17:17] property. The o zoning does not
[17:21] protect property plan development agreements,
[17:25] et cetera. None of that protects a conservation easement in
[17:29] perpetuity assures the community of the sustainability
[17:33] of the, of the condition of that property going forward. And the fact that it'll have state ownership
[17:38] means you don't even have to worry about that portion of the development agreement going forward.
[17:45] okay. Any, anything else mr. Hin? Believe
[17:49] I wanna open up to council members to ask a question. Sure. And I believe council got, there was a question about the appraisal,
[17:53] that app, the appraisal was produced and I believe it had and has been, uh,
[17:57] uh, allowed. It has been made public, uh, right. So, uh, I
[18:01] don't think there's, there's no, there's no hidden facts here, um,
[18:06] to this. So, mr. Chairman, I'll, uh, answer any questions from your council members, committee
[18:10] members, excuse me. I'm, I'm going to pass along something that came
[18:15] from some of the residents who are online. If we could show
[18:19] them again, um, their question that, one of the questions
[18:23] is who's gonna pay for ingress roads to go
[18:27] into there? Because there is no road right now. So all state
[18:31] properties, they will have to, that capital will come through the state
[18:35] agency. So whether it be the department of natural resources, parks, recreation and tourism,
[18:40] or forestry, which are the three principle resource agencies, that
[18:44] has to be part of their plan and they will have to provide the capital
[18:48] to do so. Okay. What's fortunate here is outside the
[18:52] immediate access, you've got tremendous road infrastructure already on this
[18:56] property. So the capital to get access
[19:00] is gonna be, I think, gonna be fairly minimal for the commission to do
[19:05] that and to add the 800 acres that the county currently owns
[19:09] into that, because access for that right now, frankly, most people in the county didn't even know you
[19:13] have the 800 acres. I would not being snarky here, I don't
[19:17] think most of the council knew you had 800 acres right there
[19:22] that will then permit even greater access for that property because
[19:26] it was tied up. And really the, really, the access problem was part of the problem
[19:30] having the ownership. So their other question, is it,
[19:35] will it provide a financial burden to the town of bluffton for
[19:39] law enforcement emt and fire services? I'm just passing along
[19:43] the question. Yes, ma'am. I understand madam vice chairman, that you're just the messenger on that. No more so
[19:47] than it does today. Understand.
[19:52] in fact, I would argue that putting this property under easement means
[19:57] you know exactly how much you'd ever have to invest in that versus
[20:01] what subject to a change in the development agreement. And having residential
[20:05] even no matter what it is, is only proven factually
[20:10] that that adds to your operating expenses.
[20:16] yes. Thanks for mentioning that. The appraisal had been released. There was some confusion
[20:20] with regard to, uh, a number of $8 million, uh, versus the
[20:24] purchase price that's been negotiated here, $42 million. And that appraisal
[20:28] was sent out, uh, uh, on the agenda link so that everybody who read
[20:32] that was able to hit that link and pull up the entire agenda, which consisted
[20:37] of how many pages? 46, 50 pages, something like
[20:41] that. Yeah. So all of that is available online for anybody who wants to, uh,
[20:45] review it. And secondly, I'll just make a comment, I think in
[20:49] the history, uh, of beaufort county, which is rather, uh, lengthy,
[20:54] I don't think that there's been a legacy project like this in the history of this
[20:58] county where this much land has been purchased and set aside for future
[21:03] public use. And quite frankly, I think it may be the largest one
[21:07] in the history of the entire state of the four
[21:14] outside the, um, land that's already in, um, in
[21:18] the, uh, forestry commission that's being maintained by them.
[21:22] this is a remarkable undertaking and one that I think will stand
[21:26] to mr. Vice chairman. Just to be fair to
[21:30] some of our colleagues, there have been some other larger projects
[21:34] in the state history, but this is certainly in recent history, one of the largest projects
[21:39] that'll be undertaken. Mr. Chairman? Yes.
[21:43] in our packet on page, uh, 1 1 1, there's, uh, information
[21:48] that, uh, was prepared recently and it was available at the
[21:52] green space meeting last friday. That goes into why
[21:56] this is so important to, uh, not only beaufort county, but the state,
[22:01] and I would argue the whole region in the southeast. Um,
[22:05] and it talks about the management by the forestry commission. Uh,
[22:09] they, they, they can do this, this project will be a legacy
[22:13] for generations to come. And, um, I have a 10-year-old
[22:18] and a 12-year-old grandchildren, and I hope that they will have access to this
[22:22] so that they can, there's no other property that they can go on.
[22:26] um, when they get to the age and they, and they like to do it now,
[22:30] roam the woods, they, they can do that on this property and it
[22:34] will be a legacy for generations. Thank you. Any
[22:38] other council members? Yes, mr. ?
[22:43] yeah, david's fine. . Um, all right. So going through this, um,
[22:47] the appraisal, where did the value for the timber
[22:52] generate? Was that solely from the broker? From the listing broker,
[22:56] with your permission, I'm gonna ask a resource here. It's with their forrester.
[23:00] do you mind, just so we can get the record, introduce yourself. Uh, and
[23:04] hello david bishop in nature conservancy. It, the timber was
[23:08] provided by their long-term forester stro morrison at estel. I believe
[23:12] the es I don't know if it's on y'all's appraisal, but the one we have here says it from the listing broker
[23:20] provided from the forester through the broker to us, it's not uncommon,
[23:24] ms. Barolo is, you know that any, any time you're looking at a large timber track, that,
[23:28] that a broker would have that information, but it would come from a certified forester,
[23:32] which mr. Morrison is, and he served on the forestry commission in
[23:37] an appointed role in pass. So I, I'd have confidence in his numbers.
[23:41] and, uh, last thing, if I may, uh, the nature con, uh,
[23:45] the nature conservancy, I believe they were all involved in the,
[23:49] in the three comps that are listed. Is that correct? In some capacity,
[23:53] yes, sir. Because I believe some of the comps are some of the jasper county sites that are in with proximity.
[23:58] so chelsea, uh, gregory neck, et cetera. And did anybody justify
[24:03] the, the location premium that was put on it for
[24:07] proximity and the highest and best use of the land in the appraisal?
[24:11] it seems like there was some, some little bit of guesswork done in the
[24:15] appraisal, and I know, I know it's a kind of a calculated, there's a little bit of an
[24:20] art in the science to that, and I have confidence in the appraisal process. The
[24:24] appraiser has got a good reputation in, in on that, and the state has used that appraiser
[24:28] before on other tracks outside this area. So
[24:33] I believe that's all I had right now. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure with the, the highest
[24:37] and best use of the land, the way that was calculated with it being 31, 32
[24:42] years out from no development, are we looking at speculative development in the future
[24:46] based that we're basing this price on versus what it is now?
[24:50] and, and I, I think that makes a difference there. And also when you look at the timber value,
[24:54] I think that could make a different, uh, different for the overall price and price per acre.
[24:58] I think ms. Barolo, you have a point, but I, I, I'll point out again, that development agreement
[25:03] is subject to at the whim of a town council. That could change very rapidly.
[25:08] and I guess my, I'll ask if I may last question. Go ahead. Um, have we, have,
[25:12] we, and I think buying it for public use is, is the best thing
[25:17] to do, but did we approach, um,
[25:21] buying the contract, the development agreement from the town of bluffton or, or inserting ourself
[25:25] in some capacity on that front? We did not. We, there was some discussion
[25:30] about whether it was a purchase of development rights or just
[25:34] a, just a landowner hold, taking an easement and the landowner retaining, or a private landowner
[25:38] retaining it. But the, the current owner has decided they wanna sell.
[25:43] and I think that drove, that really drives the equation from that point forward.
[25:48] thank you. Yep. Um, mr. Lawson, go ahead. I, again,
[25:52] I represent that area to preserve this, but you know, I've, I've been asked
[25:56] some pretty tough questions. And again, these aren't def directly to you, mr.
[26:00] mcshane, but, um, I've had people question on the appraisal that's
[26:04] there, even though it's done by a, a, a certified person that does appraisals is a
[26:08] fact that, you know, 1,575 acres of this is actually
[26:13] king's grant marshland, which could, nothing could be done with that in the
[26:17] future anyhow. So if you pull that out, I mean, right now we're paying about 9,000
[26:21] an acre when you consider the total acreage, yes, sir, total acreage. But when you're looking at what,
[26:26] to your point, what one could do is wha out on that king's grant,
[26:30] that's what you, that's the value of as, as someone owns king grant land. The value I have
[26:34] in that is I can prevent any warpage occurring on it. Someone cannot put
[26:38] a dock as an example on, I could object to that,
[26:43] but, but you're not gonna fill that in. The risk is that you've got other
[26:48] freshwater wetlands on the upland portion of that, that are all subject to potential
[26:52] fill, because you've had, as a council, had to deal with that in other developments.
[26:57] so, hey, and that was, you're exactly right. And that was the, the kind of the questioning
[27:01] of the appraisal that came in was if you back that out, well then we're actually paying
[27:05] one and a half times more per acre than what the, the appraisal is, is
[27:09] saying, if, if, again, you own it, but you can't do anything with it, except stop other people
[27:13] from doing things with it. So that's the one, the one thing that's, that's been pushed at me by
[27:18] many, many people in the bluffton area. Um, the second
[27:22] thing is, um, is obviously right now the only access to this is off of
[27:26] a private road, which is the new riverside drive, which,
[27:30] which is owned by south street partners. And does that limit us? And again,
[27:35] again, this might not be your question. 'cause again, um, it limit us or
[27:39] the state from making it a park coming off of a private road like
[27:43] that. Mr. Lawson, if you'll indulge me here a moment you want to, because
[27:47] I know this, I sit closer to yeah. Um, it's
[27:51] hard to sit back there and want to answer some of these questions you're doing, doing a good job, but there's some
[27:55] details. So, uh, we gotta figure out the road issue, uh, through new riverside.
[28:00] that is part of the due diligence period. So that is, uh, making sure
[28:04] that we have that that is on the seller's responsibility, um,
[28:08] to figure that out once we know exactly what the state needs. Uh, a couple things
[28:13] about the appraisal, if I could address that. The marsh on the
[28:17] county's appraisal, uh, had no bearing on the value. They excluded it,
[28:21] they didn't put a value mark on it. I would argue that there is value in king's grant marsh that's
[28:25] increasing every year with changing and mitigation. Um,
[28:30] but right now they put $0 on it. And so what they came up with was the
[28:35] non-title areas, and they came up with the value plus the timber.
[28:41] the final thing is probably the one that, that, that keeps me, keeps me
[28:45] up at night is the fact that, you know, um, uh, senator davis has done a great job
[28:49] of providing for us and saying, doing what he says he's gonna
[28:53] do. However, um, there is no absolute guarantee
[28:57] that the money's gonna be coming from the state we we're told. It is, and
[29:01] again, and I I mentioned this, I think before that the fact that you have, um, uh, ms.
[29:06] yvette who's our, our governor or possible future
[29:10] governor saying she wants to eliminate, um, south carolina income tax. And
[29:14] if that happens, well that then changes the gamut of everything and money being spent on
[29:18] all these other things. So that's probably my biggest thing is, is three years from now,
[29:22] things could change, the climate could change, another covid happens, whatever it is, and we're
[29:26] still there. We, we've put the whole 42 million forward thinking that we
[29:30] were only gonna spend 20 million. Again, this isn't on you. This is just us trusting the system. I think it's
[29:34] a fair point, mr. Lawson. There are no guarantees here. So yes, there is some risk. I
[29:38] think the risks are very minimal. Risks are minimal because we have a great track record.
[29:43] this has already been demonstrated to be a priority by the state forestry commission. The
[29:47] general assembly is supporting that by allowing the budget to give
[29:51] consideration of that to do so. So despite the fact that whether a candidate
[29:56] claims that she's gonna, she or she's gonna get it to zero income tax
[30:00] has to get a hundred and how many? 145 plus four,
[30:04] but 190 members of the general assembly to go along with that, or the majority of
[30:08] that to go along with that. So I I,
[30:14] in 23 years as an appointment, and I realize I offer, no, I, I hope
[30:18] what I offer is some credibility here in 23 years as an appointee
[30:22] on state resource agencies, through
[30:26] good times and very tough times, I've always seen these
[30:31] come through. That's the best I can offer you right
[30:35] now, that, that I have made this clear that this is clear. Senator who
[30:39] chairs the senate finance natural resource committee have support of his counterpart
[30:44] in the house. You have delegation members sitting on joint bond
[30:48] review committee. You've got members, delegation members who are sitting on senate finance
[30:52] members on house ways and means this I think, is a very
[30:57] strong compelling case. Is there risk? Yes, sir. There's
[31:01] risk that I'm gonna, when I drive back to charleston today, that when I get into charleston county, I'm gonna
[31:05] get screwed up. It's all I could, there's
[31:09] no guarantee on this. And I, I, yeah, yeah, I understand that, that that's,
[31:14] I'm very appreciative of the fact that's, you pointed out, let's go into this with eyes wide open.
[31:19] had you not had this ability, if you not had this program, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
[31:24] this land would not be even for something we could consider. But what you've
[31:28] done is you've set it up to have this opportunity, and this
[31:32] is the opportunity. Thank you.
[31:37] it will never be any less expensive than it is today. Yes, sir.
[31:41] um, mr. Dawson, you have any question,
[31:47] comments you wanna make at this time? No,
[31:51] I, I would only say that, uh, you know, I was, uh, privileged to be a part
[31:55] of the tour group that actually visited this site.
[31:59] and I will tell you, this is a pristine piece of property and,
[32:04] uh, worthy of us, uh, preserving it. So, uh, the deal that
[32:08] is before us, I think is probably one of the best that we're going to
[32:12] get. Um, but I, I, but I would say, uh, based
[32:16] upon councilman lawson's, uh, comment, uh, the
[32:21] issue that is before us and that the, uh, public
[32:25] is going to hold us, uh, to, is that we're
[32:29] spending, uh, we're spending
[32:34] $42 million of public money,
[32:38] uh, and the state is only going to, uh,
[32:43] get us at least 20 million back. And so that's, that's
[32:47] a difference of 22 million that, that we're actually investing
[32:51] in this part, and the state is actually investing the other 22. So,
[32:56] uh, that's, that's something that we're going to have to deal with. But other than that, I'm, I'm,
[33:00] I'm all in favor of it. I'll support it. Hey, um,
[33:05] 22, uh, million, um, 20 million
[33:10] I think I heard at least plus, at least 20 million at least. Yeah.
[33:14] so I'm a, I'm a I I like that. May I give an example of what just occurred this
[33:18] week on a program? Mm-hmm . That I, I want to pursue. This information
[33:23] is quite fresh. The department
[33:27] of interior of the federal government announced the distribution of 327 million in
[33:31] formula grants on hundred 34 in competitive grants from the land water conservation
[33:35] funds. That's the revenue that comes off the oil and gas leases offshore.
[33:41] all 50 states have a chance to do that. It's for parks, playground trails,
[33:45] and open spaces. It has to be a one-to-one match
[33:51] so far. This literally was introduced on friday,
[33:55] is an, is an example of the kind of programs that we're gonna go after
[33:59] to help even take that, that at least 20 million to make
[34:03] it a greater number than that. And this didn't even, this program
[34:07] didn't exist until this past week.
[34:11] so that's, that's the, that's the value of working with
[34:16] somebody like the nature conservancy in this case, because they imminently qualify
[34:21] to go help, uh, search out those kind of programs.
[34:26] I'm as interested as anybody in this room to bring as much back, more than 20 million,
[34:31] because then this extends the, the ability to do it on other projects right
[34:35] now. But as pointed out, mr. Chairman, I don't believe there's another bigger project available
[34:40] south of the broad in beaufort county.
[34:46] okay. Um, one of the things I've learned, um, is that, um, if you are
[34:50] in a position to receive particular federal funds,
[34:54] um, a lot of, lot of other areas are not. And beaufort
[34:58] county has always been in a position to receive federal funds. So,
[35:02] and one of the things about federal funds, they're not gonna turn it back in. And so if you're
[35:07] in a position that you really riding high, so I'm gonna ride with
[35:11] you, man, at this time. Um, if there's no other
[35:15] comments, questions from council, no. Um, I'm gonna
[35:20] open it up to the public at this time. And so, um, I'm going, um,
[35:24] because you came here, I only have one at this time
[35:28] here. And then there are others on online
[35:33] that wanted to, um, also maybe, uh, asking
[35:37] or making comments. So I'm going to, um, um,
[35:44] mr. Huff, john huff, um, he's with new
[35:48] river, new riverside park. Um, that's the
[35:52] topic. Oh yeah. Counsel, thank you
[35:56] for your time. And I want to say
[36:00] I like this project and I would love to see this thing
[36:04] preserved. And, um, I emailed all of you last
[36:08] week a bunch of documents, and I think you guys received them, and hopefully
[36:13] you've reviewed them. You guys have commented on a bunch of things already
[36:17] and just wanted to, uh, reiterate a couple things. Um,
[36:21] biggest concern here is the purchase price we're talking about is $42 million.
[36:25] um, I've sent every one of you a master deed from the wall cam family
[36:30] from when this property was transferred over to pioneer land back in
[36:34] march 27th, 2025. Um, the wal cam family
[36:38] signed an affidavit for this property. It has all the
[36:43] tms numbers that you guys have referenced in that affidavit. They said the
[36:47] fair mail value of this property was $8.715 million. I
[36:51] mentioned that number last week to you guys. I've heard it referenced again today.
[36:55] um, would like to know where that number came from.
[37:00] is that the fair market value of this piece of property? And now, why is the state willing
[37:04] to pay $42 million for this piece of property? When the owner signed an affidavit
[37:09] recorded this at beaufort county rod, that they
[37:13] thought the fair market value was $8.7 million. Um, and
[37:17] then additionally it was brought up today that new riverside
[37:21] is a private road that I happen to live off of. I live in the landings,
[37:26] my hoa funds fund to re maintain
[37:30] this road. Um, somebody from the state forestry commission said
[37:34] there's a park just like this in columbia, and they see upwards
[37:38] of 200,000 visitors a year there. Um, new riverside is
[37:42] kind of located out in the middle of nowhere, so there's gonna
[37:46] be a lot of people that drive there, come to this park via car.
[37:51] um, there's gonna be a lot of additional traffic we see in an area that already sees a lot of traffic
[37:55] up at the roundabout. Uh, I don't know if mr. Lawson's up there often, but
[37:59] that traffic circle sees a lot of traffic. I live there, I drive through it every day. Um,
[38:04] is there a plan to do a traffic study on new riverside road? Um, is that
[38:08] road designed to accommodate another a hundred thousand people a year?
[38:12] um, what, what is the plan for the state to fund and help
[38:16] maintain a road that is privately owned and maintained by homeowners? And
[38:20] is this gonna become another burden of mine that I have to pay more money
[38:24] because we've got a park there and we don't have the funds to
[38:29] maintain the road? Um, again, I love this project. Would love to see it preserved for
[38:33] my, my kids and my future generations. We just hope you, uh,
[38:37] take some consideration in our taxpayer funds. Thank you,
[38:41] mr. Huff. Um, is there any other
[38:45] no, sir. No, no one in the palm meadow bluff room is interested in commenting.
[38:50] uh, okay. Um, would they introduce themselves and we'll
[38:54] go from there. No one online was interested in commenting? Oh,
[38:59] um, uh, yes ma'am. Please do. 'cause I'm gonna call back up.
[39:03] I wanna reiterate what mr. Hof just said. That is a very
[39:07] congested area. I I can't even explain how much at the circle.
[39:11] and then down new riverside. And also there's a new elementary
[39:16] school going in there. If you've ever gone to may river high school, you know, you're
[39:20] sitting in traffic from now until forever. But I'm guessing
[39:24] most people will not access this park at eight o'clock in the morning. I could be wrong.
[39:28] you know, a lot of people get up early, but I understand his concern.
[39:32] that is a highly congested area, and they do pay taxes to palmetto
[39:37] bluff for their roads. So, mr. Chairman, can I make a comment? Um, as
[39:41] part of the process, the south carolina forestry commission will do a management
[39:45] plan, and there will be, and there I'm sure we'll do some estimates of
[39:50] visitors, uh, based on what is the public wants to see
[39:54] on this property. And I think from that you can ex uh,
[39:58] come up with types of traffic generation and times of day.
[40:02] but that would be all part of the management plan process when that happens. And,
[40:07] um, if they're planning to build pavilions, are they planning to build, um,
[40:11] anything permanent? I, I, I'm just talking out loud, but
[40:15] um, you know, lots of visitors is great, but
[40:20] you gotta be able to have the staff to manage the visitors too. So I would think
[40:24] that would be part of the forestry commission's, uh, plans in the
[40:28] future to let the public know what they plan to do there. And that might
[40:32] alleviate mr. Huff's concerns. Just to comment, cameron, may I,
[40:36] uh, we have a couple resources that I think can address a couple of the points that have
[40:40] just been brought up. Oh, please do with your permission. Please do. Uh, first, uh,
[40:45] I have a representative from the forestry commission. I think he can not only address the
[40:49] specific issue, but talk a little more broadly about their process. This is mr. Phillips.
[40:54] yeah, they know james douglas. Oh, douglas. I'm our state lands coordinator, so I oversee
[40:58] all of our state property. Um, I spent 14 years on
[41:02] manchester state forest, which is in sumter county, 28,000 acres,
[41:06] um, managing that property. So well aware of public land management.
[41:10] um, yeah, we would definitely take all the consideration of the neighbors
[41:15] into consideration of what type of recreation they would want to have there.
[41:20] um, the count, the beaufort county on other properties
[41:24] we just bought are against equestrian recreation. So we wouldn't
[41:28] have that on the property unless the local residents wanna have it. We have
[41:32] equestrian, we have ohv, we have dirt bikes,
[41:37] bicycles, we do a little bit of everything. And we, we
[41:41] would work with the locals to provide whatever type of recreation they want.
[41:45] um, this area is very heavily populated
[41:49] and most of the use, I'll tell you will come from that neighborhood that's adjacent
[41:54] to the property. Um, I know the traffic, there's a high school there
[41:58] and talking about elementary school there. So you're already bringing in people that don't pay for that road
[42:02] that are using it. And I know the high school has a signed
[42:06] a, um, a use agreement to use that road. So we're looking into
[42:11] something similar. Hey, um,
[42:15] one of the things I, you know, I would note that, um, the purchase
[42:19] of this property would give us 13 miles of riverfront,
[42:24] uh, frontage. And with the previous property, I think that's
[42:28] five miles of riverfront. So you're looking at almost 18 miles of riverfront.
[42:32] I mean, if nothing else, kayaking, canoeing,
[42:37] I mean yes, sir. Yeah. But anyway, you
[42:41] yeah. And the question was asked about law enforcement. So the far street commission, we do have our own
[42:45] law enforcement officers. That's true. And we were work with department of natural resources
[42:50] and their law enforcement on that property as well. Hey, quick question. I'm
[42:54] sorry, mr. I'll get you next. Oh, sorry. You can go ahead. It's just two questions.
[42:58] one is, um, when you are, uh, when
[43:02] you're engaging in the partnership, operat a partnership operation, uh, in
[43:06] the eventuality, this all is accomplished. You'll be doing a, uh, timber census
[43:11] and you'll also be doing a planned public, uh, uh, a public
[43:15] planning process. How long does that public planning process take?
[43:19] and who will be involved in that beside the people from the forestry commission?
[43:24] so we, we bring in all partners, and it's not just a limited,
[43:29] we're gonna do it for 12 months and it's over. It's an ongoing process year
[43:34] after year if the residents change their mind and wanna see something different,
[43:38] we're, we're open to changing with the times, but there'll be an opportunity
[43:42] for the residents there to have input into the public planning process
[43:46] that will be undertaken as you develop the management plan for this particular
[43:50] piece of property. Yes, sir. And all of our properties also certified to sustainable
[43:55] forestry initiative, which means we have, we can't cut more timber than
[43:59] we're growing. So the whole idea of the program is sustainable forestry.
[44:03] um, haron state forest was mentioned earlier in columbia is a big recreational
[44:07] educational forest. We have a group called friends of haron state forest. It
[44:12] is a local group that have created a, um, 5 0 1
[44:16] c3 nonprofit, and they work with us to put in trails, maintain
[44:20] trails. We work with them on any kind of management we got going on. We let them know
[44:24] ahead of time, hey, we're gonna be doing this. And they can have input throughout the whole process.
[44:29] okay. Thank you very much mr. . Yeah. Just to go
[44:33] back and, and try to answer one of the questions that was brought up here, the $8,715,000,
[44:39] uh, land transaction, that was actually an internal transfer between the family
[44:43] members and partners, uh, that, that held the land. Also another,
[44:48] uh, transfer of 3,270,000 for another parcel.
[44:52] so it wasn't just one transfer, it was two transfers inside of this. And it's actually for anybody
[44:56] interested, it's on page three of the appraisal and it talks about the statement of ownership.
[45:01] so I just wanted to put that out there 'cause I had that same question when I heard the, the 8 million
[45:06] transfer as well. Well, I appreciate you addressing 'cause uh, uh, it's unfortunate, I think
[45:10] that a number got out and, and was maybe misunderstood that that
[45:14] was an appraised value. That was, as you said, an internal asset reallocation, which
[45:18] is not uncommon, uh, at times when, uh, families move assets around.
[45:23] well, yes sir. I mean it's, it's a, it is a method
[45:27] of, of, uh, frankly, wealth management. Um,
[45:31] and that is not uncommon in this county to do that.
[45:36] I got one, one more, one more tough question for you. Um, the 340
[45:41] acres that's in the southern part of, of the 3000
[45:45] above and 340 on the southern park, do we have access to that? Is
[45:49] there, is there a way to get to that or how, how is, 'cause you look at it right now and it looks
[45:53] like we don't have, it's gonna not contiguous. Um, and we're
[45:57] not gonna have access to that, the southern 340 acres. So just for the records,
[46:01] david bishop nature conservancy, go ahead david. Thank you. Um,
[46:06] yeah, so you're referring to south of the square
[46:10] on that? Yeah, it's back a couple. I have not
[46:14] set foot on there. I'm, I've looked at more of a, I think you have to be a
[46:18] pig to get through there. It's just thick swampy, it's river buffer
[46:23] and on the east side of that is a new golf course.
[46:27] um, and so, no, I don't see that being
[46:31] a public access. Uh, I see the river buffer and the aesthetics
[46:35] from the river being important, the water quality benefits. I think this is the type of thing that
[46:40] as the forestry commission and the land trust, which will hold an easement
[46:45] become more familiar, they codify that in the terms of the
[46:49] easement and the forest uses. So, um,
[46:55] is there any access at all though, even before I'm looking
[46:59] at it? I think that's to be determined. We have not determined what the
[47:03] use is or the access is. The buffers square goes out into
[47:07] the, the saltwater marsh. Correct. So there,
[47:11] other than going through the marsh itself, which we're not gonna be able to put an access through there,
[47:15] we don't, unless you've got an easement someplace else through their,
[47:20] their property, we don't, there's no access or it's gonna be landlocked.
[47:24] well, I think you can access a little bit, I think from a management safety standpoint,
[47:29] if needed, you have one road access there that you see that yellow line, you could
[47:33] hit the corner of it, but it's really, I don't think you would want
[47:37] to access it because it's, it's not accessible land. It's swampy
[47:42] shrub. Go ahead. I ju I just wanted to add too, we have
[47:46] a lot of users access properties straight from river. So you can
[47:50] come up the river and access that property for whatever your recreational
[47:54] pleasure is, whether you just wanna get in the pluff mud or you want to look
[47:59] for oysters or you want to bird watch. Um, so you can come
[48:03] up the river and access that piece of property. The best, um, example
[48:07] of what you put in here is the, the, the map right before the picture, sarah.
[48:12] so the pic, the pic, the pictures start
[48:19] going down.
[48:31] so if you look, the two ones are what we're purchasing, and in between there's the square
[48:35] you mentioned, um, and the, the gray area is
[48:39] actually salt water marsh, which you would yeah. That we couldn't put a road through there.
[48:44] so we really don't have a a, an access
[48:48] or, or a road to, to get there.
[48:58] it's pretty far off the marsh there to have river access.
[49:05] just again, I, I I'm all for this, but I'm trying to be the devil's advocates. I wanna hit
[49:09] everything and prove why we're doing this and making sure it makes sense. Mr. Watson
[49:13] always thought of you as an angel, not a devil. Talk to my wife and
[49:17] then I don't know that we are gonna have the
[49:21] perfect answer today on that.
[49:26] I think the overall, what I think council, I ask council
[49:30] to give this consideration. We got a once in a time opportunity here.
[49:35] perfection sometimes can be the enemy of some good work.
[49:40] the good work right there is that you're not gonna have at any time
[49:44] the threat of having anything change on that. And at this
[49:48] point, from a wildlife standpoint, that might be the best use of that
[49:53] as it really becomes a wildlife sanctuary because of everything
[49:57] else being, uh, developed and turned into more of an urban landscape.
[50:02] that that is what wildlife is looking for. And you might be providing
[50:06] some of that just by that 340 acres. Not to take away from
[50:11] fact, but if 10% of this track
[50:15] of the upland side is, is not necessarily
[50:20] a park access, you're still doing a benefit through the ecosystem.
[50:29] okay. Any other comments or questions?
[50:34] um, there is no other public comments. Um,
[50:38] nothing at palmetto bluff again. One more time. Oh,
[50:43] he's, somebody's coming up. Yeah. Okay, good.
[50:51] go. Go ahead sir. The room is muted there. Just gimme your name.
[51:00] we can't hear you. We,
[51:08] we are not hearing anything. Where's
[51:12] our
[51:51] yes mr. Chairman, while they're, just, while they're working on that for that gentleman,
[51:55] uh, there'll be another opportunity monday evening. This will be on
[51:59] your council agenda, both projects. You have a public comment section again
[52:03] on monday evening, I believe that starts at 6:00 pm mm-hmm .
[52:07] and the modifications to the resolution on new river was simply to,
[52:11] as subject to the, to the conservation easement, no matter whether it's forestry
[52:16] commission or county owned on that. Brian am I, I just want
[52:20] to confirm with your counsel that it is accurate. Okay.
[52:25] mr. Rothenberg, can you, no,
[52:29] we still cannot hear you. Um, broadcast is right there.
[52:42] are they texting you, sarah broadcast or alex texting?
[53:02] audio test.
[53:10] we're gonna have to bring down the room. Have to bring down the room.
[53:25] sarah, we could send them our telephone number and if they have a phone in the room, maybe they
[53:29] could call and we could put it on speaker for the presentation. Alright,
[53:35] that is all right. How's the audio? Now you go.
[53:39] it's good. Thank you.
[53:43] y'all can hear me now? Yes. Yes. Okay,
[53:47] great. Sorry. Sorry for that. I have a simple question that's
[53:52] been passed around palmetto bluff over the last week. As I've spoken to my friends
[53:56] and other community members, and while we appreciate what
[54:00] the honorable senator has promised and represented,
[54:05] I'm wondering how we can make sure that those promises
[54:09] are entered into the record at the time that the deed
[54:13] is transferred or whatever the mechanisms of the real estate
[54:17] transaction are, so that we can be assured that
[54:21] those promises are, are, are kept. And, and also
[54:25] a specific question with recent comps that the
[54:30] nature conservancy was involved in. And I know they're
[54:34] all different and separate transactions, but there have been times when
[54:38] the conservancy has sold off parts or parcels of the land that
[54:42] they have bought for, for whatever reason. And can we be sure
[54:48] no land will be sold off to a private developer,
[54:52] um, for, for any reason? And can this be
[54:56] memorialized into the, into the transaction from the get go, which
[55:01] will ease the anxiety of people having to wait for the three years or whatever the timeframe
[55:05] is before it's in quotes official. Thanks.
[55:10] you, you bring up the audio. Thank you mr. Rothenberg. Um,
[55:15] mr. Mccain is going to address that question right now.
[55:20] uh, mr. Chairman, could I just have confirmation that they can hear me in the palmetto bluff? You hear
[55:24] us there? Yes. Yes. Okay.
[55:28] so, so this should give ultimate consideration
[55:32] to the residents to have confidence that this will occur. That, that the nature conservancy
[55:37] will not sell this to another private landowner because your resolution
[55:42] that you pass to fund this stipulates the applicant
[55:46] will not only place the covenants restrictions, but is agreeing to purchase
[55:50] to, uh, uh, convey the property to the forestry commission
[55:55] within that three years, or it comes to the county. We ask for the three years
[55:59] simply to allow to get through the due diligence of legislation to get the
[56:03] reimbursement and, uh, any other potential grants that we
[56:07] have we're gonna pursue. So the fact that you adopt that resolution, I think
[56:11] les counsel says otherwise that the, that that locks
[56:16] 'cause the covenant agreement on the grant will lock the nature conservancy into
[56:20] only transferring this to the forestry commission or to the county.
[56:25] it would prohibit them from selling it to any other party.
[56:30] I'm gonna ask your, your counsel to just affirm my statement. Mr.
[56:35] thank you. Okay. ? Yes. He said yes. Yeah. And so
[56:39] I hope the gentleman heard that. The,
[56:45] he said yes. Thank you. Yes, do, yes. Okay. . Anybody else
[56:49] there? Yeah, go ahead. Anybody else there?
[56:54] okay. Um, I,
[56:59] we have resolved this and, um,
[57:04] this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.