[8:40] and I'm texting. Uh,
>> okay. It's 7 o'clock so many. Okay. Uh,
[8:47] first thing just a short announcement.
Uh, Greg David passed away this
[8:53] afternoon. speak John David
that's why he will not be joining us
[9:01] today this evening um let's just run
around and quickly do an introduction
[9:06] because I know planning commission and
city house don't always interact too
[9:09] much with each other so let's start with
Mike Proctor
[9:14] say who you are and where what you do
it's Mike Proctor I'm on city council
[9:22] and I do run an investment advisory US.
[9:33] I'm just joined planning commission and
I'm recently retired. Would you like to
[9:37] spend some time with two grand?
>> Brandon Moff council.
[9:43] I work as an engineer direct street.
>> I'm Demian
[9:52] retired engineer.
>> Well, Jordan, planning commission,
[9:58] retired architect and I have some real
estate and some I have a farm and Jim
[10:03] and I was talking about that I did a
little bit. I just not
[10:09] city council lived in Beller since 2010
and I work at Wildcat to start.
[10:15] I'm Jim Bage. I'm mayor and mostly
retired
[10:20] » and I'll if you don't mind I have my
staff introduce themselves so they know
[10:23] who who's.
>> Yep. announce
[10:30] the development director and the staff
person for
[10:36] » James Miller, facilities director and
interim police manuction.
[10:57] Huh?
[11:02] BC.
>> Ted Henry, city manager, proud employee
[11:07] for the last 10 years. And tonight we're
here to or you want to queue it off,
[11:11] Jen, or you want me to?
>> Oh, well, go ahead.
[11:14] » First thing on the agenda, try to keep
to an hour is zoning code updates. I
[11:19] think we have somebody.
[11:23] » Thank you, mayor. Yep. I'm Kylie
Jennings. Um, I work at PEC,
[11:27] professional engineering consultants. We
serve as your guys' on call city
[11:30] planners and city engineers. Um, do a
variety of things with the city. And
[11:34] tonight, we're going to work through a
zoning and subdivision regulations
[11:38] update. This is the first workshop that
we'll do with you all out of four.
[11:43] All right. So, are we ready to dive into
it?
[11:45] » Yeah. I I will just say we are
broadcasting to the public. It's mainly
[11:49] audio because I have her presentation on
the the live stream. So just just be
[11:55] aware that um audio [clears throat] is
going
[11:58] » and if you have any questions at all
during this, please let me know. Um
[12:02] we'll do a little presentation um to
explain what this project is. You guys
[12:07] will do some discussion amongst
yourselves and then as a big group we'll
[12:10] go back to a presentation. We'll do one
more activity and then wrap it up. Um,
[12:15] so my co-orker Lance Onto is also um
your guys's on call planner and he's in
[12:21] Rose Hill right now helping them with
something and is on his way as we speak.
[12:25] So he'll get here eventually. Um, but
how did we get here? Some of you that
[12:29] were on council previously for any
commission, remember that we just
[12:33] wrapped up the Bellair 2035
comprehensive plan. This is a
[12:37] comprehensive plan document. spent two
years talking to the public um and
[12:41] working with you all um and we at that
time the city council and planning
[12:45] commission through several workshops um
we talked to several different
[12:49] stakeholder groups like the Lions Club,
the Rotary Club, the tree board. Um
[12:54] we're at pop-up events at festivals here
in Bair all gathering community input to
[13:00] give us the values and goals for Bair
for the next 10 years for Belair 2035.
[13:05] So there's multiple values. We won't go
through all of them. Um, one of them was
[13:10] economic development. Your value
statement there is Bellair's
[13:13] non-residential environment will enhance
the quality of life for all residents
[13:16] and visitors alike. Right. And one of
those goals that's boxed to your goal
[13:20] number two is review and amend adoptive
regulations to identify inconsistencies,
[13:26] improvements, and revisions. And then
focus this review towards incorporating
[13:30] modern best practices for
non-residential regulation tailored
[13:33] specifically to assist with the
implementation of this plan. Sorry,
[13:36] that's kind of jargony, but that means
do the projects that we are now doing.
[13:41] So, um you guys and same thing in
housing. We had the exact same goal for
[13:45] housing as well as goal number six here,
explore amending or redoing the zoning
[13:49] code, especially as it pertains to
residential development. Um to ensure
[13:54] best practices are in place for the
city, the developer, and the citizens.
[13:57] So, you all get to say hello
constituents. We are doing exactly what
[14:01] you asked us to do. This is awesome. So
what this project is that we're
[14:05] partaking on is the next best step for
Belair and often the step that comes
[14:10] after a comprehensive plan update.
So does that make sense where we're
[14:15] going right now?
>> Yeah. Who who um was involved in the
[14:19] process of the comprehensive plan? You
don't mind? Okay, that's what I thought.
[14:24] So most of you. Great.
Okay. So before um we dive into Belair's
[14:29] zoning code specifically, we'll do a
brief overview of what zoning is. So
[14:34] zoning 101, it existed all the way back
in antiquity. For as long as humans have
[14:38] been alive, we have been organizing our
space in some sort of order, right?
[14:43] There was a religious center, a
commercial center, um a place where you
[14:47] know all the business happened. There
was places where people lived and there
[14:50] was places where people played. There
was outdoor things. Think of a walled
[14:54] city. Certain things were allowed to
happen outside the wall, certain things
[14:57] had to happen inside the wall. They
probably didn't have it written down in
[15:01] several articles on the MUN code
website, but it existed and it was in
[15:05] some form happening. Um, then zoning, as
we call it now, took a big shift during
[15:11] the industrialization period. So, um,
people always kind of lived and worked
[15:16] in the same place, right? They didn't
have to, we didn't have cars back then,
[15:19] so they didn't have to travel far to go
to work. So work and home work together.
[15:24] Now industrialization comes about and we
have all these factories and we realize
[15:28] that work and home together is very very
bad for the human person. Um think of
[15:33] like the London the great smog of London
and all of these uh pretty quickly
[15:38] escalating health problems. So that
started a pendulum swing of we have to
[15:44] separate land uses. People need to live
over here and work over here for health,
[15:48] safety and welfare. good idea until that
pendulum swung and swung and swung and
[15:53] swung. We never stopped it and we said,
"Okay, people are going to live here if
[15:58] they live in one house, but they're or a
single family house. They'll live here
[16:02] if they live in a duplex or a triplex or
quadlex. They live over here if they're
[16:05] in an apartment. The uh healthcare will
be over here. Retail will be over here.
[16:11] The grocery store will be over here. And
the factory will be over here." And so
[16:15] now no one can access the things that
they need on a day-to-day basis. Right?
[16:19] So that is what 20th century um zoning
has kind of swung towards. And we have
[16:24] some really good things that did happen
um like really walkable cities, things
[16:28] that are, you know, uh just think of
like our really historic neighborhoods
[16:33] um in Witchah, historic neighborhoods
here in Melair, things that we all enjoy
[16:37] being in. And then some things that
weren't good happened like just endless
[16:41] endless endless suburban sprawl, right?
That is generally not great for the
[16:45] human spirit. So the modern goals of
zoning are to take away this. So this uh
[16:50] dashed circle is like a a walkable
radius, right? And we do sometimes live
[16:55] in this world where often now our uses
are surrounded by parking lots on very
[17:01] large roads leading to the fact that no
one can walk to anywhere that they need
[17:06] to go. And the goal is kind of shifting
towards mixing those uses to make them
[17:11] um more usable so that you can maybe
live, work, and play in one
[17:14] neighborhood. I think a lot about uh
kids and elderly who cannot drive. How
[17:21] much how far can they go without a car
in their day-to-day lives? Can they get
[17:25] any of their needs done in their
day-to-day life? Right? There's kind of
[17:29] like a big uh some people are saying
like, "Oh, kids these days can't can't
[17:33] handle anything. We were out till the
street lights came on." Well, it was
[17:36] like different to be out till the street
lights came on when you could go to the
[17:40] quick trip and you could go to the park
and you could go to all these places
[17:42] with your friends. Um, and now you
can't. Like I know growing up if I
[17:46] wanted to go to the store I had to cross
a four-lane road um with cars going 45
[17:52] miles an hour, right? So that wasn't
really part of an option. So zoning now
[17:57] today we're trying to get more into this
area on the right where the environment
[18:02] that we're building is good for
development for the human. Okay. And I
[18:07] know that's kind of a heavy statement
and that's not that perfect, you know,
[18:12] combination of uses there isn't going to
fit in every single um city, right? So
[18:18] the goal here is to make Belair's a
little bit more oriented toward what the
[18:23] citizens want, what all what you all
think is good for the next few years.
[18:29] Um, I will say that this is so we'll get
to discussion, but real quick I want to
[18:35] note that this is not unique to Belair.
Every city in America is trying to go
[18:41] through this zoning and subdivision
regulation update, right? This is not
[18:44] something that it's like you guys are so
behind. This is crazy. Um, at the same
[18:49] time, this is impressive that we're
already making this next step, right?
[18:54] you guys just adopted the comprehensive
plan and you're already starting on this
[18:58] next project, which isn't necessarily um
common everywhere. So, it's really
[19:03] exciting. So, this is this is the next
best step for citizens. Um and these
[19:08] regulations will be like continuing to
evolve, right? Just like our knowledge
[19:14] of zoning, our knowledge of planning,
the way we build houses changes, the way
[19:18] we design cities changes. So, now you
guys will get to talk. Um, and we're
[19:23] going to do this kind of in groups. So,
I think maybe each table could have a
[19:27] miniature discussion and then we'll
discuss as a group. Um, you guys get to
[19:31] decide as a group what is the most
important rule of your zones and
[19:35] regulations. I'll put a timer on my
phone for like three or four minutes and
[19:40] then we will discuss as a large group.
So, go ahead discuss amongst yourselves.
[20:10] What's the most
stressful?
[20:32] That's part of it.
[20:38] » It's designed to
[20:53] availably
[21:11] don't know very
Oh,
[21:37] It's very
[21:53] easy.
[22:08] Whatever.
[22:41] All of us
coming down.
[22:57] There's always
[23:08] another
[23:21] Facebook.
[23:42] » Oh, yeah.
[23:59] I know
[24:03] something
[24:37] This is exciting. You guys are daddy. I
love it. Um we are in a strict request
[24:42] to keep us under now but we're trying to
starting
[24:46] let's start at the table you guys want
or are you guys ready to what was your
[24:51] answer for the most important role of
your code?
[24:55] » I mean I don't know if we had a
collective answer but I just said to
[25:00] bring order and value out of chaos.
>> Nice. Yes.
[25:04] » Yeah. I talked about how, you know, when
I came to city council, I pretty much
[25:08] have this idea, hey, you know, property
rights are king. You know, if you own
[25:11] the property, I want you to have maximum
ability to do what you want on that. If
[25:15] you've got a problem with it or you form
HOAs to kind of enforce, you know, we
[25:20] have different things in there, but
minimize top down control. Um, but I
[25:25] hear from residents, you know, this
feels like in black city, you know, is
[25:29] there a role that we should play in
shaping or minimizing some of that? So,
[25:34] um,
bring order with it and freeze it, but I
[25:38] don't always know, uh, what that should
look like and how complicated that
[25:41] should be for
>> our side of the deal.
[25:43] » Yeah, that is that'll be a core, we'll
discuss that later is how do you balance
[25:47] personal property rights and maintaining
an ordered city? Yeah, great. And your
[25:53] guys's job as elected employment
officials. Great. I'm not envious, but
[25:56] that is very cool.
Okay, this table. Yeah,
[26:01] » we we said just the most important role
is so that our city can develop with a
[26:07] plan.
[26:13] » We didn't think it was fair. You did
start with those ideas first.
[26:20] I think it comes down to um the citizens
safety but also with the vision that
[26:27] they have for the city um and then
staying on top of like what we are now
[26:34] as as things change and evolve trying to
make sure that we're staying ahead of
[26:37] that so that the the quality of life is
>> I think another one was our zoning
[26:44] regulations are there for a reason and
it it
[26:50] to just change them or ask for changes
just because you want to
[26:56] struggle with.
>> Yes.
[26:58] » Why?
>> Uhhuh. And so like are you asking why
[27:02] are we changing right now?
>> No. Or
[27:04] » but why back on that? So we talked a
little bit about making sure that the
[27:08] regulations are clear and
I don't know the words predictable,
[27:14] right? But we don't want more. We would
like less and less case by case and more
[27:19] and more structure.
>> That's kind of a general rule. But also
[27:23] one of the things that we talked about a
little bit too is being creative and
[27:27] having some option especially for
variety of housing
[27:32] you chat about a little bit.
>> I'm going to come back real quick. So
[27:35] what about the changes?
>> So when people ask for changes, why do
[27:40] you need that change? Is it all
financially driven? is that you think
[27:46] it's better if we do it this way. And so
all of these documents, all these words
[27:52] we put in here were thought out. And if
we just say, okay, here it is. And then
[27:59] somebody talk, I don't like this or I
don't like this. I want to change that.
[28:04] » And they want to come in and do it. And
and why why do you want to
[28:08] » not just I want to do it.
>> Okay. Having reasons behind the variance
[28:13] request. reasons how those help citizens
of Belair and the city.
[28:21] » Nice. Okay. Is there anything else in
this table? Housing flexibility.
[28:26] » I think we wanted to see something. The
code obviously we started with it public
[28:30] safety.
>> Yeah. Knowing the separating isolating
[28:34] compartments
from quiet from more safe areas maybe
[28:40] less safe areas.
>> That's the role of of zone. I don't
[28:45] know. I'm not trying to bash on the
because it's actually a pretty neat
[28:49] city, but if you've ever gone to
Oklahoma,
[28:52] find something that's just different and
and and that is um it's weird. There's
[28:59] houses next to businesses, next to fire,
and it's just kind of weird. So, if you
[29:04] ever go there, just I've just noticed
that.
[29:08] » Um so, trying to
make those what you saying order of the
[29:16] right place, the right place to be
separated by the right amount of
[29:20] distance or together or what. But Jim
didn't know the connectivity and we
[29:24] talked a little bit about how
subdivisions and zoning, you know, you
[29:28] build a subdivision, you build a
subdivision and they're just kind of
[29:31] desperate. They're not connected. But we
really do as we want to master plan our
[29:35] city need to be thinking about how do we
provide for future connectivity knowing
[29:40] there's going to be some sidewalks to
nowhere until we connect that but if
[29:43] there requirements for putting that in
then eventually we'll start connecting
[29:47] them or the city might take a path if
the side connect
[29:53] » awesome yeah
[29:57] it's it's also a balance of there's
families that have been in the valley
[30:01] for decades So they they love why
they're here and they don't always want
[30:07] the change. Um so it's it's a it's that
balance of really trying to make sure
[30:12] that we're that they feel heard and that
the reason they want to stay here is
[30:16] also
>> defin
[30:20] we know how and I haven't had a chance
to read that just
[30:24] 35 point fits in this play.
[30:30] Um, yes, I will come back to that in
just a second to hit on what you're
[30:36] saying. That will be yes, the thing that
we kind of tie in, right? We're not
[30:40] going to change the way Belair looks
with the zoning regulation update. How
[30:43] do we tease it? How do we make it more
flexible, more predictable for people,
[30:48] for citizens, so that people can not be
out of shock when something new goes in?
[30:52] Right. So, yes,
>> I just want to say one piggyback thing
[30:56] there. I agree with that. Um, I think
it's important to see what strengths
[31:01] Belair has, what unique characteristics
Belair has and and and and try to try to
[31:09] maintain those to some degree and not
just be a meto city like, oh, we want to
[31:14] be like dirty, we want to be like God,
we want to be like mates. No, look at
[31:18] what's made us really different
>> and sure we maintain some of those
[31:24] special qualities. So that's if you got
more nerds that that's what I I was in
[31:30] that thing.
>> Awesome.
[31:32] » Yes. So So for some more context on with
the comprehensive plan um so the
[31:37] comprehensive plan that's a legal
requirement by the state of Kansas and
[31:40] by most states um to have in place
before you can enforce zodia
[31:46] regulations. So you have to be able to
tell a citizen we've thought through the
[31:50] next 10 years. We've looked at our
utilities. We've talked to citizens.
[31:54] we've gathered all this feedback um and
that gives us the legal right to say you
[31:59] cannot build a so and so on your
residential plotted neighborhood. Um so
[32:06] the comprehensive plan is much more
visionary in um just in its personality
[32:12] of a document. I guess if you can give a
document a personality, right? It goes
[32:17] through we can come back to um one of
these slides here.
[32:22] You have four value statements. There's
only two of them here. Economic
[32:25] development and housing. Um but we can
read this uh paragraph for housing here
[32:30] real quick. Retaining residents in
Belair over the next 15 years will
[32:34] largely hinge on housing. If resident is
able to rent or purchase a starter home,
[32:39] move into a larger home as their family
expands, and then downsized during
[32:42] retirement, Belair will have served them
well. City can proactively take steps to
[32:47] ensure that missing piece of housing
stocks, the missing pieces of housing
[32:51] stock are incentivized and eventually
built to keep citizens in Belair. Um, so
[32:55] those are the type of that's like the
level that we're looking at when we're
[32:58] looking at the comprehensive plan,
right? is like this is a thing that
[33:02] needs to be addressed and this is what
we heard from your citizens that needs
[33:05] to be addressed as well as planners
looking at the city. This is what we
[33:09] recommend. Um and then we list these
goals. So you'll see they're pretty
[33:12] vague, right? Like goal number three is
promote multiple housing types and
[33:16] densities of housing to ensure residents
at all stages of life can remain in
[33:19] Belair. Goal four, support and encourage
maintenance and redevelopments of
[33:22] underutilized and or deteriorating
existing neighborhoods. Um because that
[33:27] this is a plan for the next 10 to 15
years. So this is the uh the workload
[33:33] basically of your staff here um and you
all is how do we achieve these goals
[33:37] over the next 10 to 15 years. So many
ways you can do that. Um this zoning
[33:43] regulation update is like the next best
step to start to do that. Does that kind
[33:48] of give more context for that piece?
And it's a little bit but this is on
[33:52] your website. Um it is a large document
but there's a lot of pictures. So I
[33:56] would recommend working through it. um
that is the comprehensive plan will be
[34:01] updated annually by the planning
commission. So that is something that
[34:05] you guys will continue to review as
being
[34:07] » just to kind of add to a little bit your
about things that get requested changed.
[34:12] Some of that comes from our side too
like we'll review a plan at planning
[34:15] commission or we'll review the city
council and we'll go wait here's
[34:18] something missing here and we'll say hey
we want to sidewalk there connection. So
[34:22] it goes both ways. But I think the
intent of updating our zoning is so it's
[34:26] very clear what our expectations are of
the developers and what we're providing
[34:30] our citizens. So that hopefully we have
less and less and less of that over
[34:34] time. But also one thing I've observed
is developers will come in and ask for a
[34:39] change and a lot of times I'll hear hey
this is how Witchah does it or this is
[34:44] how and so they're used to developing in
areas across the area and our code is so
[34:49] old and so dated that a lot of those
little things have just not caught up
[34:54] and I'm not saying that everything Wita
does or everything that Derby does is
[34:58] going to want to do but I think there is
probably a decent chunk of the issues
[35:02] we're having are probably related to
we're kind of on some of those things
[35:08] and that's what I've observed over the
last several weeks since I've been on
[35:11] council when they have asked for
adjustments or changes. It seems like
[35:15] it's rooted in it's kind of normal but
you guys are different.
[35:19] » So how these aren't good I'm not saying
get rid of all
[35:22] » there are good differences but there are
four things that would totally be up if
[35:27] they were yeah
>> press four. All right, if there are no
[35:30] more questions, we're gonna move on to
your this is your second discussion
[35:33] question that you'll do on your tables
again and then we'll move on with the
[35:38] evening. Um
[35:44] the next section,
[35:50] » what is the most common development
oriented complaint you hear in Belair?
[35:56] » Yeah. No, this is small small groups
first. I know what one answer is going
[35:59] to be. I know if anyone can come up with
something other than duplexes, you can
[36:03] start
[36:25] Okay.
[36:55] When you start getting
[37:14] down, I mean,
that's all
[37:24] that
[37:39] burning
city.
[37:48] about
[38:07] you know
[38:13] what's
[38:22] Thursday
[38:25] night
[38:41] special.
[40:06] All right.
[40:10] » I hope that was some good.
>> I'm sure you guys all want to hear these
[40:15] things. I'm interested in your guys's
answers for this one, too. And the
[40:19] previous one, sorry.
>> All right, let's start over here again.
[40:23] Come up with
[laughter]
[40:31] your hand.
it would be deeplexes idea like
[40:37] like on one hand you know and I feel
this way too like but the bedroom
[40:41] community isn't such a slur to me
because we're close to W 11 nice things
[40:48] to say you know like you've been here
for 20 years you like a restaurant but
[40:52] you don't want all the hassles of
restaurant or maybe more people coming
[40:56] up here that might cause other issues.
So just that tension of how do you grow?
[41:00] How do you grow in an organic way where
you're not putting your thumb on the
[41:03] scale maybe with incentives that don't
make sense but at the same time there's
[41:07] an upper use in
just
[41:15] so um we're not going to say the word
[laughter] and but I think in some way
[41:21] it's a bit of a red herring and I want
to go back to what we talked about when
[41:26] planning commission meetings what I gave
you some homework because I know that
[41:30] there's
these laws which just come down to
[41:32] Kansas that would make it difficult for
us to do anything if you single out a
[41:36] certain type of house. But as I thought
about it really I don't think people are
[41:41] necessarily complaining about a duplex.
What they're complaining about is 200 of
[41:46] the exact same floor plan, exact same
color side by side. And I think if even
[41:50] if those were million dollar single
family homes, if they were all identical
[41:54] floor plan, all identical color side by
side in the same subdivision, we'd all
[41:58] have the same complaint. So I think when
you listen to what people mean versus
[42:03] what they say is the homogeneity,
right? We all love variety. And I think
[42:09] one of the things I think people should
look at is is there a way in that we can
[42:15] force the developers to have some kind
of variety whether it's duplexes, single
[42:18] family homes, forplexes, apartments, I
don't care
[42:23] regardless of residential type. We want
variety. And so if we had that as
[42:33] goal number three or statement number
three that would go back I'd like to see
[42:38] that driven out
in the individual zone.
[42:44] » Yes, we will get to that next.
>> So I think so not single out a type of
[42:49] residential property but we want
variety.
[42:54] » Awesome.
Yeah. Um, to go off of that, I live in a
[42:58] neighborhood that is filled with
duplexes and I find a new one almost
[43:03] every month that I didn't know was there
prior because of the design of the homes
[43:06] or I live in Riverside. So, you drive
through and you never realize that's a
[43:10] duplex until you notice there's two
addresses on the front. Where's the how
[43:14] they where are they going? So, yeah,
it's a great a great comment.
[43:17] » I'll add on to that. I think also
besides the variety, I think the mix,
[43:21] and we talked about this a little bit,
the mix of green space, sidewalk
[43:25] accessibility, some of those things do
get more cramped when you're just trying
[43:30] to fit as many duplexes as we can on
that partial, you know, 40 acre lot. So,
[43:35] if we're thinking about making a
requirement, it may needs to be more
[43:38] driven to our vision of how much green
space do we need per acre or whatever
[43:44] metric we come up with. And maybe that
can help drive a little bit of no matter
[43:48] whether it's duplex or a single
favorite, it's going to have these
[43:50] things and that could help to y
>> as we're saying that I was kind of
[43:56] thinking those same things. So I think
you it's well well said the way you put
[44:00] it
[44:07] » as I am in uh the outside of
I don't know exactly what I'm called but
[44:21] » but anyway those of you who have known
me for a while know there are few things
[44:26] I talk house and one of them is
lighting. Okay, those are the kinds of
[44:32] things that you look at I think in
zoning from the standpoint of people
[44:38] from the outside looking at your city
when they come in. example
[44:45] for part of the community. I live on
Greenwood Road. If you come down 85th
[44:51] Street and Greenwood Road, people talk
about the Christmas tree.
[44:57] You know what that is? That's a SEMA
facility and it's all referred to as the
[45:02] Christmas tree. People talk about the
duplexes. They all look alike. And then
[45:08] there's another issue that's coming
about with this zoning too that we need
[45:11] to think about our whole society how
we're becoming more geared towards even
[45:17] light pollution. You know, it used to be
water pollution. It used to be, you
[45:23] know, soil pollution. Now we're looking
at black pollution also. So this is what
[45:28] some of this thing of the zoning changes
can do is to look forward and bring Bair
[45:35] into this concept of all the way around,
you know, beyond the city limits.
[45:42] » Thanks.
>> I got one thing I'd like to density
[45:44] versus green space and pocket.
So the more dense populated and area it
[45:52] is, the more green space and pocket
parks they need to be able to get out.
[45:57] Imagine living in Soviet Russia during
the 1970s.
[46:03] You're in 20story building and there's a
park outside. This whole room is the
[46:09] building and this is
so we need to have a we need to put
[46:15] something in. It's been done in those
cities where density
[46:20] per
acre of major has to have so many
[46:28] feet of square feet or square yards of
open space pocket parks.
[46:34] » And the pocket parks are so important
for a neighborhood because where the
[46:39] kids go to they walk to the park and
then they it's five tin the houses down
[46:47] where the parents go with kids where the
parents they meet the other parents that
[46:52] neighborhood forms to cohesive
identity.
[46:58] » Yeah, I I guess I'll let's say
several of these concepts together. I
[47:03] know the question is is a little bit
broader than what I'm about to say. I
[47:08] would say what I hear is reflexes. So
that but I think um one thing that Brian
[47:16] mentioned and you got V mentioned I
think what I would like to see is a
[47:22] variety a variety of lot sizes
>> in in this in let's say one subdivision
[47:29] typical subdivision
we need a variety of lot sizes you need
[47:34] a variety of housing types like talked
about maybe they're not all good places.
[47:40] Maybe they're not all single family, but
maybe a variety of living choices,
[47:44] creative living choices and a variety of
green space. And even if there's two
[47:51] adults that wanted to share a nice green
space and it was a special green space,
[47:57] maybe that that's an opportunity to save
some of the financial burden often by
[48:01] developer. So, okay, this development,
this 4 acres has to be green space and
[48:06] this 4 acres has to be green space.
there could be a little bit space on
[48:11] shares. So I guess variety is
[48:20] thing I got brought up was what is our
we said the key word but uh the second
[48:26] biggest thing is just not having
sidewalks or sidewalks and this is
[48:31] usually an issue in older parks failure.
It's obviously not as big an issue in
[48:35] our new subs because most of those can't
say all most of them have sidewalks on
[48:40] at least one side. Some of them have it
on both, but there are some new
[48:44] specifically duplex development that did
not get sidewalks put in. So that's a
[48:49] problem in my opinion with the density.
Uh so the other issue is just we we kind
[48:55] of a couple times of green space. I
don't know if it's city parks. I think
[48:59] when I hear pocket park sets probably
tends to lend itself to requiring an HOA
[49:05] supply that and us not taking on more
city general budget to do that. But um I
[49:12] think it is probably the second biggest
thing I hear is just not having enough
[49:16] connectivity, enough sidewalks, enough
safe space to walk, bike
[49:22] and other timing under what said. Yeah,
I agree. The city doesn't need anything
[49:29] more than the budget like five huge
parks.
[49:32] » But you know, sometimes simplicity is
fun. like maybe it's okay to have a
[49:38] green space because it can just be,
>> you know, it doesn't have to have a
[49:44] $350,000
play set. It can just be gratitude
[49:54] what Tyler said.
>> I'm gonna come to the staff table real
[49:57] quick. What do we think?
I'm a little biased, but um I think in
[50:03] addition to um the zoning code related
to housing and I know we talked a lot
[50:07] about the types of I'm worried about
retail and commercial opportunities
[50:12] because oftent times when you have a
little something it brings people into
[50:17] the city and when you only have houses
of thinking, oh my gosh, I've got to
[50:21] drive 10 miles to get to a grocery
store. I got it. So, I think retail uh
[50:25] the right kind of retail in the right
kinds of places according to the
[50:28] comprehensive plan is going to be really
important and I know that sometimes when
[50:32] you get a few a few more may come,
right? And so, we're starting to see a
[50:36] little bit of that right now and I'm
really excited about that. Um as long as
[50:39] it's the right kind and what people want
and so I think um I think that's really
[50:43] helpful because I don't want to continue
I don't want Belair to continue to rely
[50:47] on driving some other city all the time.
I I appreciate having some of those
[50:52] conveniences in the city.
[50:57] » You do. You do. The reality
>> it's not quite zoning related, but we're
[51:01] about ready and some of the new council
members are going to experience their
[51:04] first bond issue. Pro special
assessments are the main one I hear. And
[51:11] and and it's all tied together, guys.
That's what's fun. It's uh it's
[51:15] interesting how citizens want one thing
and then the other and then retail is
[51:22] another big one.
>> The other thing when I'm talking is it's
[51:26] funny how why do people move to Valair?
They want to look up at the sky. They
[51:29] want to go to their backyards and have
that sense of I'm outside the city but
[51:35] also, you know, close to the city. So,
how do we preserve that feeling of and I
[51:40] hate hate to say it, but you know that
I'm out in the open but not out in the
[51:44] open and that's where we talk about lot
sizes and and those types of things. So,
[51:49] those are the three things I get.
>> Okay, thanks you guys. That was really
[51:55] informative, really good. Um, we are
going to move on to project philosophy.
[52:02] Lance is going to take it from here.
gets to all fun
[52:10] act and she says lance once you can be
in there just deflate everybody's
[52:15] » conditions
>> like a in parks and wreck the show it's
[52:18] a lot like cities there's the two
finance guys and one of them like talks
[52:22] about all the good things they're going
to do and then the other guys launches
[52:25] the budget
>> welcome to another guy
[52:28] » so I'm generally the second least
popular person at every party the first
[52:33] finance guys. So, at least I have you
guys beat. So, I don't have to worry
[52:37] about paying, right? Say that jokingly
because uh that is a point that I'm
[52:43] going to try to make. So, what we're
trying to do here tonight is kind of
[52:47] what we've started with. Trying to get
some of your guys's thoughts, ambitions,
[52:51] the things that you guys struggle with,
start to kind of put some context around
[52:56] what this next version of your zoning
code will look like. Um,
[53:02] the other part of what we're trying to
do tonight is kind of ground you guys.
[53:06] So, we're all marching forward with this
with the same goals in mind. So, what is
[53:11] this project going to do? What is this
project not going to do? Are we going to
[53:15] be able to address every single thing
that every person in this room wants to
[53:19] address? No. Uh, so what is our purpose?
So, we're going to pause. We're going to
[53:25] talk about a little bit of that here in
the middle and then we're going to get
[53:28] some we're going to hope we'll try to
set some priorities so we can at least
[53:32] identify those really big ticket items
that we have to make as part of this
[53:37] update. Again, we will not be perfect.
This will not be a code that you guys
[53:43] adopt and never has to be touched again.
That's how we get into the situation
[53:49] we're in now, right? where we've kind of
got to reset, go back to foundations,
[53:53] figure out what's important, and figure
out what we need to do just to make it
[53:57] work correctly. The one piece, and I
caught most of that last thing that I'm
[54:02] not that's not on this section that I
wanted to mention, I want to I want to
[54:08] remind everyone the difference between
encouragement of and requirements and
[54:14] regulations.
So just because we want our built
[54:18] environment, our city to look a specific
way, uh there are different ways we can
[54:23] make that become reality or actuality.
Some of that is through our requirements
[54:28] and our regulations. You must do this,
right? Not everything fits a zoning code
[54:33] in that way. So not saying that this is
applicable or not, but just to use an
[54:38] example because we've talked a lot about
variety of lot sizes, variety of housing
[54:43] types, all those things, right? Can you
write a regulation that requires that?
[54:48] We're going to find out, right? Uh but
there are other mechanisms that a city
[54:52] can use to encourage that rather than
just require that or have the
[54:57] regulation. So I want you to be thinking
in that mindset, too. Not only are we
[55:02] talking about requirements and laws here
within the zoning ordinance, uh, but
[55:07] even if it's not appropriated or does it
fit well in a zoning ordinance, some of
[55:13] these ambitions and goals can live
elsewhere. Uh, which we can talk about
[55:17] those as we go.
So, I'm actually going to let Kylie
[55:22] explain that. I don't want me to have
all the fun. So, I'll let Kylie explain
[55:26] this slide, then we'll get into the real
stuff.
[55:29] » Okay. So this analogy is usually given
um for time management, right? What are
[55:33] your rocks in your life? What are your
pedals? What are your stay? So rocks are
[55:37] like I have to eat three times a day. Um
me, I have to also snack like three or
[55:41] four times a day. Love snacks. Um I need
eight hours of sleep and I need to hang
[55:46] out with my husband, right? That might
be your rocks. And then your pebbles
[55:49] could be um I I like to cook. I like to
um hang out with my neighbors. These are
[55:56] things that add value to my life, but
they're not required for me to survive.
[56:00] And then the sand are things that are
just now I have free time. What am I
[56:03] going to do? Right? I'm going to read a
book or go outside. Um, so you pick
[56:10] where your things land. But that's
basically what we're saying here is if I
[56:15] only read books and never eat lunch,
then I will not continue to survive as a
[56:20] human, right? That would be putting my
sand in before my rocks and my pebbles
[56:23] go in. So you have to put in your big
things first that are the most important
[56:27] then the next important and then fill in
around the rest. So for this project the
[56:32] most important thing is organizing the
code right the zoning code currently
[56:36] does not flow in the most uh what do I
want to say intuitive way right that the
[56:43] organization of this will be the rocks
we have to get the right sections in the
[56:47] right place the right things in the
right order and it has to talk well to
[56:50] the subdivision regulations and then the
pebbles the next important thing we're
[56:54] going to look at are districts and uses
so that's single family residential
[56:59] multif family residential
um light commercial, heavy commercial,
[57:03] light industrial, heavy industrial,
those types of uh zoning districts, what
[57:08] your piece of property is zoned and then
what is allowed to happen on that piece
[57:12] of property. Those are the next level of
importance. And then the final thing,
[57:16] the sand that fills in the jar um that
we do absolutely last um is the
[57:22] regulations. So that is what we were
talking about earlier like what is the
[57:26] uh recommended acre per density of green
space for this housing development right
[57:32] how far do we want these street trees to
be placed apart from one another what
[57:36] type of architectural facade do we want
people to use on their buildings those
[57:40] are the sand things so that would be
something that we have to shift our
[57:45] minds is away from wanting to fill out
all of those sand regulations right
[57:50] because we say okay I know I want brick
and limestone stone with the spots. Why
[57:53] can't we just write that as a
regulation? We're not there yet. We have
[57:57] to start with the organization so that
we can get there without just making
[58:01] things more confusing in the process.
That make sense? Does that land? Cool.
[58:06] She's an analogy expert, so I give all
analogies to her. How long is that gonna
[58:11] take?
>> Two weeks now. No, I'm No. I I think a
[58:17] lot of the pacing of this project. So,
we will cover all of these as part of
[58:21] this project. A lot of the pacing I'll
have we'll have a better idea of
[58:26] following the end of this workshop and
before our next workshop. next workshop
[58:29] which we'll talk about we'll be
presenting actual districts and UC
[58:36] we'll see how close we are as a group to
getting through that. So, I hate
[58:42] putting, but my goal is to have full
draft zoning code in the minimal
[58:48] subdivision that we're touching by the
end.
[58:51] That's the goal. And as Kylie knows, I'm
meetings I'm in never go late. Projects
[58:57] never go beyond the deadline.
>> And steering phase like yourself never
[59:02] request another meeting like
[59:10] Okay. So what hopefully this will look
like at the end it will not we are not
[59:14] going to be submitting this to some
national you know hopefully some
[59:18] national award there's not going to be a
number of cities that are going to be
[59:22] like I want their code so what is
successful for us at this stage of what
[59:26] we're trying to do as Kylie mentioned
our code is not overly organized user
[59:31] friendly which means we have a lot of
compliance issues development has a lot
[59:35] of risk that's unnecessary homeowners
don't really know what to do it drags
[59:40] down staff time. So, they can't be
proactive. They're very reactive. So,
[59:44] hopefully our code by the end of this is
well organized. It's consistent. We've,
[59:49] as Paula can tell you, uh we often are
debating conflicts in your code. It says
[59:55] one thing in one section and contradicts
it in another section. We got to figure
[59:59] out what it says. So, organized,
consistent. Uh we always give cities
[1:00:04] this as kind of the the process or the
pathway. So we did your guys'
[1:00:08] comprehensive plan that can set those
goals and those ideals. Now the zone
[1:00:12] goes next which is a tool to implement
that comprehensive plan. So better it
[1:00:17] should be aligned with that
comprehensive plan. So remember one of
[1:00:21] the reasons why we did comprehensive
plan A is because it's not just us in
[1:00:25] this room that's saying we want our city
to be this. It should be something that
[1:00:30] is reflective of the community
consensus. So always should be relating
[1:00:34] back to the adopted comprehensive plan.
If we can make this easier to either
[1:00:39] self administer or staff administer
administer or for you guys on the
[1:00:44] planning commission to make decisions
and city council to make decisions.
[1:00:47] That's what we want to do. So, we want
to be necessarily strict and have heavy
[1:00:54] requirements where it makes sense from a
community vision perspective, but those
[1:00:58] places where we want people can do
business or we want they're going to do
[1:01:02] it for the code. We want it to be
predictable and easy enough to do. I
[1:01:07] don't want anyone to say, I don't want
to move to Belair. I don't want to build
[1:01:10] in Bair. I don't want to start a
business in Bair because the process is
[1:01:15] too hard.
And then uh again to use a different
[1:01:19] analogy, I'm not highly going to be
nearly as good, but we're at the
[1:01:23] foundation phase, right? So we'll
continue to add on and do renovations
[1:01:28] and maybe focus on one piece of the
house, one room at a time in the future,
[1:01:33] but we got to get the framing, the
foundation, everything ready. That's
[1:01:37] what success will look like for this
phase hopefully by the end of the year.
[1:01:42] So what this project is and what this is
not. So my goal is with this is just to
[1:01:48] make sure that we're being efficient
with your guys' time and you guys
[1:01:52] understand what our role is. So when we
get to the end of this uh it's a success
[1:01:57] for everybody. So this is a project to
build a stronger foundation for you guys
[1:02:03] when you're making decisions on some
basis. Um it will align with the 2035 or
[1:02:09] the ballet comprehensive plan. We will
reorganize this. We'll modernize the
[1:02:14] structure to bring it up to best
practice. We'll look at your zoning
[1:02:18] districts and your procedures, your
definitions because right now they're
[1:02:22] kind of all over the place. They're
usable, right? We use them on a daily
[1:02:26] basis, but we can definitely make this
uh this work a lot easier. Our goal as
[1:02:31] planners when we write zoning
regulations now is you shouldn't have to
[1:02:35] have a master's in planning to read with
them. So, we try to use common language
[1:02:41] as much as we can. There are some
terminology that genius what it is. Uh
[1:02:46] but if a homeowner can't understand it
and they're constantly asking Paul of
[1:02:50] interpretations which happens uh I don't
know how many times a day follow a lot
[1:02:56] » a lot.
>> That means we we need to do a better job
[1:02:58] as a profession and writing this for
people to understand. Uh and then
[1:03:03] that's the last. So what we're not doing
we're not rewriting every single
[1:03:08] regulation in this country. I am not
going to sit down and draft a brand new
[1:03:13] landscape code that specifies the the
types of uh allowable species. We're not
[1:03:19] going to get into that level of detail.
Um are there things that we can kind of
[1:03:24] pick the h maybe some high touch things?
Yes, we're we'll be looking at lot sizes
[1:03:29] and maximum building heights and
setbacks and all the things we typically
[1:03:33] think about uh for sure. But some of
those hightouch unique items to to the
[1:03:40] city of Delair, we're not going to be
diving into these. Those are the later
[1:03:44] additions or revisions. We do a good job
organizing here. Then maybe phase two of
[1:03:49] this project is looking at your
landscape, but phase three potentially
[1:03:53] looking at your parking. That one's got
a little aspect next to it. We might
[1:03:57] talk real about that. every complaint
that you've ever got with the issue
[1:04:01] that's been raised by a resident, a
business owner, a developer or yourself,
[1:04:06] we don't we're not going to get into
that level of detail here. It will not
[1:04:10] be perfect. The foundation, the
organization will be perfect, but there
[1:04:15] will always be something to touch. We
will kind of benchmark you guys against
[1:04:21] other communities. So, let's say we look
at lot sizes, right? I want to know what
[1:04:25] Goddard and Vandover and Witchaw and
Skicha and everyone's doing. Uh but
[1:04:31] we're not we're not aiming to be like
anyone. We're also not aiming to be
[1:04:36] unlike anyone. We want you guys to have
context of what is happening here, but
[1:04:42] we want those to be reflective of what
you guys want to be as a city. So you
[1:04:46] guys are going to say, I heard Dodd's
done this or I heard Derby's doing this.
[1:04:50] That's perfectly fine. We just have to
make sure it's right for your nexus.
[1:04:56] You will find at the end of next year
when you implement this, you will find a
[1:04:59] mistake. Somebody codes are complex,
right? People will find something. I
[1:05:04] know. Believe me, it shocks us when
people find our mistakes. This happens
[1:05:09] like maybe never forgets to me. But uh
you guys will find things you want to
[1:05:14] keep. Maybe not even like a mistake, but
something like, "Oh, I didn't really
[1:05:19] think that all the way through." So,
that's just the way zoning codes work.
[1:05:24] They are living documents. They should
be updated, reviewed every every year. A
[1:05:29] lot of times after a case, you'll
recognize or question a resident will
[1:05:34] call like, "I've never really had to
incorporate that or interpret that. I
[1:05:38] don't really like it." So, I just want
to set that expectation. Now, there will
[1:05:41] be some of these things. So, we want to
keep you guys at least to start at this
[1:05:46] higher level, right? The rock's not the
same. Any questions about what this
[1:05:51] project is or what this project is not
now that I've deflated everybody's So,
[1:05:58] I'm going to say this in like the most
negative way possible clearance. Don't
[1:06:02] take it the wrong way. That's my stuff.
Um, so are you telling us that, hey, we
[1:06:08] just heard your number one complaint to
Europeans, but this project's not going
[1:06:12] to address that? No, we are looking like
if those things if those things can be
[1:06:18] incorporated, we want now like that
specific example like yes, we want to
[1:06:24] know the number of every complaint
that's
[1:06:29] will address the number one complaint.
We all pre-wesome
[1:06:44] variety issues.
>> No, we will very much be looking at 90
[1:06:51] » and we'll talk a little bit more about
how we get there towards the end. Yeah,
[1:06:55] I think it has to be data driven too
because I think there's a perception
[1:06:58] that there is a ton of something and
data just doesn't that so you do have to
[1:07:04] be cognizant of perception versus
reality and then how do we overcome that
[1:07:09] as a part of this project too.
you know, there there are ways to market
[1:07:13] that information out, right? It's just a
decision we have to make as a city of
[1:07:17] how we're going to communicate, what our
changes are, why they were made, and
[1:07:21] maybe some statistics on our housing
inventory.
[1:07:25] » I think that's a good idea no matter
what we do on a regular
[1:07:30] » what air is defines it better.
>> I think it's to your point just for our
[1:07:35] notes. So we did look at uh existing
land uses as part of the comprehensive
[1:07:41] plan. That's a year and a half ago year
and a half or so ago that we pulled that
[1:07:45] data. So we can simply update that map
and maybe we present that next
[1:07:50] workshop. We'll give you an update with
land use because we'll be talking about
[1:07:54] land usees next. So we'll present it
here and figure out really
[1:08:00] lance. One thing I I think we need to
talk about is I've been to the uh
[1:08:07] planning and zoning and each and every
time we have a board of zing
[1:08:14] landscape
weave landscape off I think is a
[1:08:19] mistake. We have to have some baselines
so we're not okay. We're gonna do this
[1:08:25] over here and this person wants to do
this. I think it's it's a it's a mistake
[1:08:30] not to attack that. I generally agree
that your guys's landscape code needs
[1:08:37] work. I think everyone in here would
agree with that. The way that we have
[1:08:41] this project scheduled right now is
we're going to take what's in your
[1:08:45] landscape code. We're going to
reorganize it, make it fit within the
[1:08:50] the updated code. So, you're not getting
rid of Mscape. The same requirements
[1:08:54] that are on developments for landscape
and for houses will be there in the end
[1:09:00] uh as part of this project. Um, if we
want to write and revise the landscape
[1:09:05] code because that's a completely
different
[1:09:08] part of our brain subject matter
expertise, we can definitely do that.
[1:09:13] That's not really my my goal is to take
what we have and make it enforceable.
[1:09:20] » Yeah. Yeah. Little tweaks like that we
certainly will be looking because we say
[1:09:25] 2 in somebody I want to put one.
>> Yeah. Why you want to put one in? Well,
[1:09:30] that's not good enough.
>> Well, that's why landscape specifically.
[1:09:34] I don't want to get off on landscape on
my own. That's why it's so challenging
[1:09:39] because enforcement is a major piece of
landscape code. You're going to have the
[1:09:45] greatest most extensive landscape code
in the world, but if you don't have
[1:09:49] equal if you don't spend equal time
thinking about how you're going to
[1:09:52] enforce the thing, it doesn't really
matter so much. So, a lot of that is
[1:09:57] outside of the realm the realm of the
community development department
[1:10:02] includes other departments. It includes
budget and finance and all those things.
[1:10:06] But we will certainly look to improve on
your existing landscape code. We will
[1:10:10] not totally remove as the the thing
about landscape code is certificate of
[1:10:17] occupancy.
>> That's
[1:10:23] until somebody wants a certificate of
occupancy in November and they can't
[1:10:27] plant the landscape until next spring.
>> Eight months. Yeah. That's like bring
[1:10:33] back to wrap this up pretty quick. I
don't know if it's done through
[1:10:37] presentation but
>> almost we have no more activity for you
[1:10:40] guys. So I will
>> of course not the duplexes being
[1:10:47] » and talking about how heavyhanded we
want to be because I don't I don't know
[1:10:50] it's really duplexes it's like cheap
housing or or things that are going to
[1:10:55] look rund down or out of place. That's
something that I'd like to talk about
[1:11:00] here. you know how talking about maybe
having and how many requirements and
[1:11:04] facads and things like that that we
don't care how many people fit in there
[1:11:12] » how do you agree neighborhood it's been
20 years we'll do something with the
[1:11:14] city right
>> well I'll end the density is still an
[1:11:18] issue for me like we do need to get more
defined off how many duplexes are we
[1:11:23] going to allow piece of l like can't we
set that like maybe we don't agree with
[1:11:28] how many are being fed into a certain
And there's nothing wrong with us saying
[1:11:33] I get [clears throat] your lot size
variations but we can come up with what
[1:11:37] we feel comfortable allowing
>> yeah like dirt it's black and white 40%
[1:11:44] of any type of vision can be duplexes so
yeah so thatation that can happen
[1:11:53] » I don't want to prolong it but you're in
a kind of unique position because you've
[1:11:57] worked with the city for a year or so
Now, talking about the foundations,
[1:12:01] what's maybe one thing that you see in
our code that we should think about when
[1:12:05] we're addressing in these meetings? Um,
because you're very familiar with our
[1:12:09] code, but yet Lance travels throughout
every city and runs these presentations.
[1:12:13] So, I'm just interested in your quick
opinion.
[1:12:15] » Yeah. The biggest items for me working
to implement your code on a daily basis
[1:12:21] is having a list of zoning districts
that are functional that make sense that
[1:12:27] cover all of the different or different
possibilities of development and within
[1:12:32] those zoning districts having a
concentrated thought process in what's
[1:12:37] allowed and then when you get to a point
to where use is appropriate. What are my
[1:12:42] setbacks? What is my maximum height? So
just that basic that real basic
[1:12:47] understanding land uses where can I
build it how do I build it mass and sus
[1:12:52] and those types of things uh are the
biggest issues that we currently have
[1:12:56] with
>> those are the foundational
[1:12:59] zoning 101ies what else if I said
anything else
[1:13:04] » I think uses is a huge problem that's
why you all see so many cases is because
[1:13:09] we at some point went down the laundry
list versus the use list so right Now,
[1:13:14] Beller doesn't even allow restaurants
>> anywhere in the city. You can't build
[1:13:17] » anywhere in the city. Restaurant without
That's right.
[1:13:21] » So, that's an issue. That's a problem.
>> Unfortunately, that was done on purpose.
[1:13:26] No, it was done on purpose when I first
moved up here. They That was a source of
[1:13:30] pride for
misplaced pride in my opinion, but that
[1:13:37] was a source of pride. They wanted to
lock it down. So again, wrap yourself
[1:13:42] up. We are out of time.
>> You guys are in charge. So you guys tell
[1:13:46] us
okay
[1:13:50] » pretty brief individually. I'll give you
90 seconds so that we can wrap it up
[1:13:56] quickly. You're going to mark three
priorities that you think we need to
[1:14:01] focus on for this.
[1:14:08] Sorry.
[1:14:22] [laughter]
[1:14:27] » Your call.
>> Circle them, underline them, however you
[1:14:30] want to identify them on your paper.
[1:14:39] Does anybody need a pen? I think they
already got one.
[1:15:16] keep them. I will take them at the end.
[1:15:20] » Yeah, I think what we'll do is then last
three. Yeah, I know.
[1:15:27] » We're gonna have you guys try to find
some commonality, but I think what we'll
[1:15:30] do is we'll just take them when you're
done and then we'll go back and do some
[1:15:35] analysis and we'll just start next
meeting with our next workshop with that
[1:15:40] uh to see where you guys agree.
>> Well, then turns out I had a data
[1:15:44] question. Are you going back and if so,
how are to see what kind of cases are
[1:15:48] you seeing
>> to see a pattern of what people are
[1:15:51] asking for having to look at?
We know I feel pretty confident
[1:15:58] anecdotally for the last year and a
half, but before that we we haven't
[1:16:02] talked about it, but I think that's
probably a really good idea.
[1:16:06] » So I told Paul and I talk about all the
time if you've got a variance case
[1:16:09] that's the same variance case every
time. You might want to change your ide
[1:16:15] if you can see data points and actually
see our
[1:16:19] » things that we're constantly saying yes
to that should be helpful. Well, and
[1:16:22] just a reminder, you've only had a
couple of cases because up until
[1:16:27] recently, we haven't had a board of
zoning appeals. So, you're those cases
[1:16:31] have not been bought, right? You'll
you'll see more of the zoning change of
[1:16:36] uses, you know, those kinds of things.
But as a BCA, you've not seen a lot of
[1:16:40] variance cases. So,
>> you see other ones and see absolutely
[1:16:44] then you can decide does that fit our
plan and then decide whether we want to
[1:16:48] adopt it. But it gives you more data
points to actually help the kids to make
[1:16:52] their decisions off of.
>> Oh, for sure.
[1:16:54] » That's a great point. So, one I'll just
end here. So, the next workshop we have,
[1:17:00] we will be looking at those core
building blocks. We will bring to you
[1:17:04] guys what we recommend are your zoning
districts and we will be working through
[1:17:08] what uses are allowed in which zoning
districts. So, we'll be digging in
[1:17:12] technically on the next workshop. After
that, that's the foundation or the
[1:17:17] foundation. to the next workshop. So the
third workshop will be looking at the
[1:17:21] regulations within those district
groups. So lot sizes, max length, I set
[1:17:26] that more technical details. And then
workshop four which to Ted I didn't I
[1:17:32] should have answered Ted's question with
also this caveat is the other big piece
[1:17:37] is process and procedures that we have
in our Z today need overhaul. So we will
[1:17:43] be looking at process and procedures and
implementation in workshop four. You
[1:17:47] need more workshops. We'll travel down
that road when we get there. Are all of
[1:17:51] these combined city council?
>> Yes.
[1:17:54] » Okay. Would it be possible to have a
single planning commission workshop?
[1:18:00] » I'm not opposed to it. I like it just to
have you guys together sometimes because
[1:18:04] you guys work together, right? And you
got to have that relationship.
[1:18:07] » So you get more Yep. There's two groups
here once.
[1:18:12] » Yeah. No, I think we can definitely game
plan that. I'm not opposed to it anyway.
[1:18:18] So, questions for me before the mayor
kicks me out of those doors. [laughter]
[1:18:23] » It's always going to keep
>> literally.
[1:18:27] If you have any questions, reach out.
So, shoot them to Paula and Ted. They
[1:18:31] know how to get a hold of us. And just
don't give out my personal information.
[1:18:34] Paul,
>> I'm doing it.
[1:18:36] » You guys,
>> I'm so doing it.
[1:18:38] » All right. Now you guys can have fun
with the budget.
[1:18:42] » Thank you so much. That was really
[1:18:46] » just remember the buzzing
[1:18:53] question.
[1:23:46] Okay, let's continue the workshop with
the uh presentation of the final draft
[1:23:51] of the 2027 budget, all funds. And I
think Mr. Barry Smith is going to help
[1:23:57] us learn all about this. Thank you.
>> Oh, yes. Good evening, Mayor Council. Uh
[1:24:02] tonight is the overall draft of the
fiscal year 27 budget. Um we'll
[1:24:09] um review all the funds we've already
presented. Um this time we'll also have
[1:24:13] the non- taxing funds included like
streets, land bank, equipment reserve,
[1:24:17] bond and interest. Um the goal of
tonight is just to receive comments and
[1:24:21] feedback and if there's anything else we
need to change before our hearing on the
[1:24:25] first.
[snorts]
[1:24:28] Just to recap with general fund, um, our
2027 valuation estimate came in at just
[1:24:32] over 142 and a half million, which was
increased from about 130 million the
[1:24:36] year prior.
[snorts] What does this mean for the
[1:24:39] city? At the same mill levy as last
year, we'll generate um about 520ome or
[1:24:45] 514,000 more dollars in property taxes
that we levy. our revenue neutral rate,
[1:24:51] which was if we didn't levy a dollar
more than we did the year prior, would
[1:24:55] equate out to the 37.390 mills number
there. So, if we didn't generate one
[1:25:00] more dollar of tax revenue than we did
for this year in 26, that's what the
[1:25:04] overall mill levy would be at the end of
the day.
[1:25:09] Here's a breakdown of the valuation
estimate we received. breaks it out into
[1:25:13] real estate which is all real and
personal property like businesses and
[1:25:16] commercials and residential housing
personal property status assess
[1:25:20] utilities and which [clears throat]
makes up our overall valuation. We had
[1:25:24] an overall increase of 9.66%
um from 26 to 27.
[1:25:30] [snorts]
So what's that mean? If we keep the same
[1:25:33] mill levy for a $250,000 house, the
average increase of that 9.6% was 6.63%.
[1:25:40] So, the owner of a $250,000 home will
roughly pay $70 more in taxes in fiscal
[1:25:46] year 27 than they did this year in 26.
Um,
[1:25:52] and we last time we presented, we had
those various various different
[1:25:55] calculation models and methods up there.
So, that's what those other three charts
[1:25:58] are.
[1:26:01] So, I added in this slide for this
presentation, which was the Epic Sports
[1:26:04] IRB that was recently um voted upon at
our last meeting.
[1:26:09] This is a unique opportunity. I have
never had this happen um during a budget
[1:26:12] cycle where an IRB sold midway through
the year and not as planned at the very
[1:26:16] end of the year. So, I reached out to
the county and figured out how they
[1:26:19] actually do this. And the appraisers's
office, their answer was they'll take
[1:26:24] the total valuation of that property
divided by 365.
[1:26:29] Whatever day is it sold, if there's 100
days left, they take that number times
[1:26:32] those 100 days, and that's what will
come back on the tax roll for this
[1:26:35] budget cycle.
So what does that basically mean? Well,
[1:26:40] that original valuation number I just
talked about will actually increase to
[1:26:45] 146 million. Um, which will actually I
miss I didn't update that one. It's 143
[1:26:50] million. The no value goes from 142 543
to 143 415. Since we've already set our
[1:26:58] cap of how many property tax dollars we
can levy, that automatically pushes down
[1:27:03] the overall mill rate when it's
calculated out. So, I calculated this
[1:27:08] based on a September 1st sale date,
which I think it's going to sell this
[1:27:13] week or next. So, it actually be a
little bit more. But even though our at
[1:27:18] our hearing our mill levy is going to be
41.003, 003 at the end of the year in
[1:27:22] November when those final taxation extra
abstracts come out our mill levy should
[1:27:27] be around that 40.753 number
and that's exactly how these IRB
[1:27:32] incentives are designed to work right
when they come back on the tax role we
[1:27:36] absorb that into our property tax
dollars which drives down the levy for
[1:27:41] everyone citywide especially
residentials users since those are our
[1:27:45] highest tax base
[snorts]
[1:27:48] don't hold me to that Exactly. It is an
estimate. It's the first time I've been
[1:27:51] through this, but it should be hopefully
it's pretty close to that number there.
[1:27:56] So, general fund, all of our revenues,
what are those made up of? fines and
[1:27:59] fees charged for service, property
taxes, sales taxes, um very small amount
[1:28:04] of those grants and other [snorts]
once that revenue bucket um all the
[1:28:08] revenues come in that bucket tips over
and that's how we pay for everything all
[1:28:12] of our city services that the general
fund provides which is administration,
[1:28:16] wreck, PD, parks and facilities,
planning and zoning and then all of our
[1:28:19] transfers to bond and interest our debt
service payments etc. [snorts]
[1:28:26] Not much. Well, nothing has changed
within all the departments. I can run
[1:28:30] through each one again if you want to or
I can kind of skim back to the last
[1:28:34] slide of general fund.
>> Yeah. If anybody wants to go through any
[1:28:38] of these details and just say so.
[1:28:44] » Okay.
>> So, city manager, we're going to split
[1:28:48] an FTE um to assist with rec retention.
We have some additional monies budgeted
[1:28:53] for engineering and legal services
regarding Willon. It's there if we need
[1:28:56] it. If we don't need it, we don't spend
it.
[1:29:00] [snorts] Um engineering on call
engineering services are maintaining
[1:29:02] that PUC. Um added in some extra money
for other additional engineering
[1:29:06] services, plan review for new
subdivision developments, things like
[1:29:09] that.
Of our finance department, we're g one
[1:29:13] of us can do the KUCPM course and we
added that new waterwork software. We're
[1:29:17] going to continue that for 27.
um governing body highlights here is
[1:29:22] just the annual chamber dues that we're
gonna um start providing and then we
[1:29:29] increase hotel and travel because LKM
will be in Kansas City next year for
[1:29:33] anyone that wants to attend. [snorts]
Human resources actually had a slight
[1:29:37] deduction reduction from 26.
[snorts] Um legal is going to get the
[1:29:43] other half that FTE we mentioned when
talking about the city manager
[1:29:45] department. It's going to help with
record retention. um sight increasing
[1:29:48] quantities and reducing contractuals for
additional legal services.
[1:29:54] Question
>> I don't I don't want to get hung up on
[1:29:57] details, but we're we're going to talk
about the chamber in November, but
[1:30:00] that's just budgeted.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Budgeted, I guess, would be
[1:30:03] the proper word.
>> Sarah, if you need it, if we don't need
[1:30:06] it, don't got to spend it.
[snorts]
[1:30:10] » Um court moving one part-time employee
to full-time employee. um reduction in
[1:30:16] various items within the commodities,
training, dues, memberships, supplies,
[1:30:18] and furniture. Um we're looking at the
addition of that diversion project for
[1:30:23] 2027 and the utilization of code
enforcement cases through municipal
[1:30:27] court start that process.
>> Just just a comment on that. I'm kind of
[1:30:33] concerned about the amount of cases
we're running through court and
[1:30:37] especially the continuitances.
Um, I'm not saying change this, but I I
[1:30:43] do want to see us find a way to reduce
that significantly because I that's
[1:30:49] expensive, especially continuences
because every time you have continuous,
[1:30:53] especially if you had police officers
had to come in or, you know, everybody
[1:30:57] has got to come back again and we're
paying them every time they come. So we
[1:31:03] need to really work on on that and I
know Mia and I have had some discussion
[1:31:07] about that but uh we need to see what we
can do in that area. So,
[1:31:13] » and if I might not, you did great. Uh,
the difficult part, too. And we can we
[1:31:18] can talk about continuations. That's
kind of a separate matter and just the
[1:31:22] total volume as we grow. It's it's we
really just, you know, the more people
[1:31:27] you have, the more cases tickets you're
going to write and cases you're going to
[1:31:30] have as well. And I think that's part of
the growing pains as well. I'm not I'm
[1:31:34] not saying we can't do measures to help
reduce those numbers. It's just it we're
[1:31:39] really noticing that especially in um on
the court and PD side is as we get
[1:31:44] bigger the more more tickets more uh
misdemeanors and actually felonies as
[1:31:50] well. I think some of those too I'm not
the expert at it but uh um it's um it's
[1:31:55] one of those things that's tough as you
get keep growing.
[1:32:02] » Yes, I do I think Marie has done a
fantastic job with Missile Core moving
[1:32:06] forward. Um, we actually received our
draft audit today and I think we're one
[1:32:10] audit away from having any reference of
Miss Pakort totally off there. So, kudos
[1:32:17] to Maria. Um, work with me on the
internal control side of things, making
[1:32:20] sure everything's flushed out. Um, so
just want to give Maria a quick shout
[1:32:25] out on that one. [snorts]
[1:32:29] Uh for police, no or we had an FT um
full-time records clerk back in 26 27 no
[1:32:35] additional personnel were requested. Um
just minor adjustments here and there to
[1:32:38] commodities contractuals moving forward.
>> The pool um some increase for chemical
[1:32:45] costs at the pool and we also did
include $35,000 for the coping repair
[1:32:50] next year at the pool.
[1:32:54] » Day camp. no significant changes for
2026. Um,
[1:33:00] recreation in general, increased the
event planning line item to help with
[1:33:04] those events throughout the year. And
for the capital projects, still waiting
[1:33:08] on getting that final direction on the
rec center there. Um, when we get down
[1:33:12] to the CIP reserve fund later, we'll
talk a little bit about the maintenance
[1:33:15] items for the rec center. [snorts]
Senior services, no significant changes.
[1:33:23] Land development, the special
assessments there, 42,000 of that will
[1:33:27] expire this year. So that's why you see
our commodity line item there go from 79
[1:33:31] to 37 for 27. Uh 33,000 of that 37 will
expire at the end of 35. So that's
[1:33:38] slowly going down as we pay off those
special assessments. [snorts]
[1:33:42] This is where our land um debt service
transfer comes from. So we bring in
[1:33:46] property tax revenues into the general
fund. It gets transferred from the land
[1:33:50] uh department out of the general fund
into our public building commission fund
[1:33:54] to make that debt service payment. So if
you follow the money trail, that's where
[1:33:57] that's how that goes. [snorts]
Parks. Um we added a facilities manager
[1:34:04] position back in 2026 as James Miller
who's also here with us today. Um done a
[1:34:09] great job so far. correct quantities. We
increased a little bit in playground
[1:34:13] equipment, replacement maintenance,
vehicle equipment maintenance, um all
[1:34:16] those reoccurring items there. We moved
all the capital items out to CIP. So the
[1:34:22] general fund for 27 is essentially
strictly operating. The only really
[1:34:26] capital item in there is that pool
coping for 27 [snorts]
[1:34:32] planning and zoning. We had $30,000 this
year for the zoning code updates that we
[1:34:37] just had the workshop on downstairs. We
reduce that to 7500 in 2027 for
[1:34:42] additional enhancements to the zoning
code miscellaneous um engineering
[1:34:46] service needs which through PC and
zoning code that's what that is
[1:34:53] for the facilities department here at
city hall. We have that personnel
[1:34:58] placeholder for the compensation
classification study for all general
[1:35:02] fund employees only. We budget that at
300,000 does not mean we'll spend that.
[1:35:07] Um, it just means we have room if the
competence class study says we need to
[1:35:12] go that route. So, it's just sitting
there if we need it. [snorts]
[1:35:16] This also handles the transfer to our
CIP reserve fund. 415,000 100,000 to
[1:35:21] equipment reserve and 850,000 to the
streets fund for the streets annual
[1:35:25] maintenance program.
>> Can we go back a slide or two slides?
[1:35:29] Now,
>> this one
[1:35:31] » we one more. So we had you had an
engineering one where we pay PEC
[1:35:39] a retainer
to do services for us,
[1:35:44] » but then I seem to see a bill every time
we ask PC to do anything for us. What is
[1:35:49] the the money we pay them on a monthly a
regular basis bias?
[1:35:56] » Sure. Um, [clears throat] so if you see
a bill for and a lot of what you'll see
[1:36:02] on the AP ordinance might be related to
inspection services for a certain
[1:36:07] project. So that means we contract them
through a work order um that they'll
[1:36:12] inspect that particular project that's
spread then spread on special
[1:36:16] assessments to the benefiting lot. What
PC does for us on a monthly basis, boy,
[1:36:21] a lot. Um, one they we were talking
earlier, Lance and Paula will review
[1:36:26] cases together. Um, I think they have a
one once a week meeting. Um, that's a
[1:36:31] little bit of it. And we'll have all the
reviews that we have for those
[1:36:36] subdivision projects they'll do um with
under that MSA or that on call
[1:36:41] agreement. Um they also have um MS4
permit regulations that they handle for
[1:36:48] us that takes a load off an and her uh
staff. Um we also have a general uh the
[1:36:54] traffic study you're going to hear next
uh Tuesday from Tam Asure is done
[1:37:00] underneath that agreement. So these
little little uh projects that I don't
[1:37:05] can't really give u uh that uh maybe
take their professional traffic engineer
[1:37:12] five hours to do. We don't have to go
out to bid or uh go out to a single work
[1:37:18] order. We just put it under that um that
MSA.
[1:37:22] » So there's probably 20 other examples
and I'll probably I can write I can
[1:37:26] write a good report on it if if you'd
like, but those are the ones that come
[1:37:29] top of mind.
>> Okay. [snorts] Thank you.
[1:37:33] » Another one of those is since we don't
have a um GIS technician on staff,
[1:37:37] whenever a new subdivision comes online,
they submit those GIS asbuilts with the
[1:37:43] um final asbuilt documents after
construction's completed. Then PEC gets
[1:37:47] those uploaded to our GIS system for us.
That's not the big thing to do.
[1:37:53] [snorts]
>> Barry, while you're on that one, I did
[1:37:56] have a quick comment or question. No,
the the next one. Uh, so we talked a
[1:38:01] little bit about moving Sky View Park
forward.
[1:38:06] Where would that come from in this
budget?
[1:38:08] » That would be the CIP reserve funds.
>> Okay. So, that $415,000
[1:38:13] transfer is what would be covering at
least part of that
[1:38:17] » if we move that forward. Okay. Yeah, I
just wanted to clarify that.
[1:38:24] So here's just a brief overview of
everything, all the highlights from each
[1:38:28] of those slides there.
And then here's our overall revenues in,
[1:38:32] expenditures out, and change in fund
balance. So the fiscal year 25 actual
[1:38:37] numbers are from our draft audit we just
received today. Um, so through 2027,
[1:38:42] we'll be down to around 24.4% of our
annual revenues.
[1:38:47] So I think we're sitting at a good spot
there. [snorts]
[1:38:52] There's a note down there about the
recent legislation. If they did pass
[1:38:56] that 3% cap this year, that would have
caused a reduction of 355,000 in
[1:39:01] property tax dollars. So that reduction
with all expenses in this budget would
[1:39:06] result in a deficit of 643 instead of
293 that it's currently at. This is just
[1:39:12] side note. [snorts]
[1:39:17] Utility funds. We went over this um at
our last workshop or no regular council
[1:39:21] meeting um talking about water, sewer,
storm, and solid waste. Water fund
[1:39:26] highlights. Um everything in here
includes a 0% increase for 2027. We're
[1:39:32] adding in 75,000 additional for our
personnel for the comp class study.
[1:39:37] maintaining our water tower maintenance
at 75, water meter replacement program,
[1:39:41] GIS information input, uh maintain wish
purchase, CCA operations, debt payments
[1:39:46] were adjusted, um included 75,000 for
water sampling stations. Those are the
[1:39:52] blue water sampling stations you'll see
outside along the roads now, which makes
[1:39:56] collecting samples a lot easier. Um as
we grow, we'll get those installed
[1:39:59] around town, make that process very much
more efficient. [snorts]
[1:40:04] Then also included is the 930,000 for
water line replacements [clears throat]
[1:40:09] which was our 10-year CIP plan for that.
Once again, these are just maintaining
[1:40:13] what we have. Nothing new, nothing
additional at this point.
[1:40:18] So our change in fund balance there from
25 through 27, we are expected to be
[1:40:23] down around 27% of revenues.
[1:40:30] I do want to point out here, you'll see
the capital projects line for 27.
[1:40:36] There's $ 1.92
million budgeted for that. And then down
[1:40:41] here, you'll only see a reduction of
700,000 in fund balance. That's because
[1:40:46] right now, currently, I have the 2026
waterline project also budgeted in 27
[1:40:52] because it's looking like it might roll
over depending on the timing of 45th
[1:40:56] Street and that main replacement itself.
So it's in there so we don't have to
[1:41:00] amend the budget next year.
If we don't need to use it once again it
[1:41:05] won't be used
[1:41:11] as pursuer once again includes 0%
increase for 27. We got the additional
[1:41:16] funds for the common class study 120,000
for chemicals. That's the chemical
[1:41:21] injections at the lift stations once we
get that original or that main hole
[1:41:24] project up and going and completed.
um 80,000 in system maintenance and
[1:41:29] repairs, CCUA payments were adjusted. Um
the fence or wall around the Harding
[1:41:34] lift station. Um and then we're still
working on refining that CIP plan
[1:41:38] longterm from there. But right now
currently we do have that manhole
[1:41:41] project skated system all budgeted in
there.
[1:41:45] [snorts] So from 25 to 27, those are our
fund balance changes. Uh we get down to
[1:41:50] a 61% fund balance by the end of 27.
still sitting in a pretty good position
[1:41:54] even with the 0% rate increases for
water and sewer for 27
[1:42:00] solid waste. We just budget our accounts
that we have that have trash accounts
[1:42:04] revenue in expenses out via the
contract. Pretty straightforward. We did
[1:42:08] transfer an additional 100,000 from
solid waste to streets since the fund
[1:42:12] balance could handle it and we're going
to be sitting around 32% at the end of
[1:42:15] 27
>> and that's the rates on that are set in
[1:42:21] contract. So we don't have a we won't
have a rate increase this year, right?
[1:42:24] » Correct.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[1:42:26] » Whenever that is it July to June?
>> June.
[1:42:30] » Yeah. So June. Yeah. I think that's when
the first rate increase will take
[1:42:33] effect. [snorts]
>> Storm water fund. We talked pretty
[1:42:38] extensive extensively about this um at
the last meeting. Um our fund balance
[1:42:43] will be down to around 20,000 at the end
of 2027. Um we workshop some ideas.
[1:42:48] We'll bring back uh some potential
solutions to that later on.
[1:42:54] So non- taxing funds, where does the
money come from for the streets fund?
[1:42:58] Comes from fuel taxes from the state and
the county transfers from the general
[1:43:01] fund.
[snorts] Land bank is just straight land
[1:43:04] sales. Bond and interest is transfers in
from general fund, water fund, sewer
[1:43:09] fund. Equipment reserve transfer in from
general water and sewer. And CIP is a
[1:43:14] transfer in from general. So these are
all funds that are budgeted and the
[1:43:18] primary funds are just coming into these
funds that are non-budgeted or non-
[1:43:21] taxing.
SH's fund like I said relies heavily on
[1:43:24] the gas taxes from the state and the
county. I think we're it's around
[1:43:28] 338,000 that we get from both state and
county fuel taxes. Um and then the
[1:43:34] transfer from the general fund for the
streets plan. So 27 we maintain those
[1:43:39] transfers. Um the fuel tax estimates
surprisingly did increase for 27 about
[1:43:45] 19%. Um up from 26 or 25 expenditures
the 2027 street maintenance plan 950,000
[1:43:53] pave street repair gravel repair snow
and ice material and removal. Um
[1:43:59] currently working with our street
[clears throat] maintenance plan
[1:44:02] individuals to get that continuous
five-year plan rolling. I think Ted
[1:44:06] touched on that our last meeting about
what next five years consists of
[1:44:11] fund balance there. Um get down to about
200,000 at the end of fiscal year 27
[1:44:16] which is about 14%.
[1:44:20] » Can you remind us again what the the
target revenue or balance ending
[1:44:26] percentages?
>> So in our comprehensive plan it's
[1:44:29] anywhere between 17 and 30. 17 would be
>> so 30 is the high end
[1:44:34] » there. There's no official number.
That's kind of our targets like right
[1:44:38] between 17 and 30. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[1:44:41] » That's I I wouldn't say this fund's
different, but it's a unique fund in
[1:44:45] that it only handles streets and um I I
think we would like to continue to
[1:44:50] bolster that to probably 17%, but we're
we're comfortable it resting at 14
[1:44:55] knowing we have transfers available or
any anything to bolster it up. But a lot
[1:44:59] of this expense is the street
maintenance repair that we do on a
[1:45:03] yearly basis. So, we're pretty
comfortable in the controls elements of
[1:45:07] this um fund. We're not quite relying on
the state and county fuel tax
[1:45:12] distribution because it is
>> 300,000 of a million
[1:45:17] » budget. I will say that just to keep it
alive, I've been doing this for a long
[1:45:22] time and what fuel tax brings in doesn't
nowhere near covers the the street
[1:45:28] maintenance uh that you need to do on
streets. not a proponent of increasing
[1:45:32] it, but it hasn't changed since I think
1997. So, it's something that maybe the
[1:45:38] state legislators want to grapple with,
but nothing kind of out of our hands.
[1:45:43] » I think they actually were toying with
the idea of doing a holiday on that tax,
[1:45:48] but that it didn't go any worse. And I
hope it never does because that I don't
[1:45:52] think they understand where that money
goes. It's just kind of an interesting
[1:45:55] point and you know property taxes are
100% subsidizing the streets uh which is
[1:46:01] a fine process. I just want to make sure
everybody understands that your your car
[1:46:05] taxes aren't really going to maintain
the streets.
[1:46:09] » Okay.
[1:46:12] And then another point on that that
percentage there, the streets fund, it
[1:46:17] doesn't have any um dedicated bills like
debt service that we have to pay every
[1:46:22] year with just streets money. So that
that threshold is a little more relaxed
[1:46:26] in this case. Now, if this a general
fund or water or sewer, yeah, we would
[1:46:30] need to be getting that back up there
within that range for sure. Um because
[1:46:34] we have those debt service payments for
a long time coming out of those funds.
[1:46:37] So Barry, just to kind of restate that
what you're saying is the control as you
[1:46:41] referred to really this is an annual
fund that every year this body is
[1:46:45] approving. Yep, we're going to spend a
million or we're going to spend 600,000
[1:46:49] or we're going to spend 1.5 depending on
our priority. And that's kind of why you
[1:46:53] feel more comfortable because it's more
project annual focused and less
[1:46:59] » we can change it a lot more than some of
the other contractuals.
[1:47:04] » Yeah. And and this comes from the
fiveyear street plan. So yeah.
[1:47:09] » Right.
>> Yeah. Based on that plan, if four years
[1:47:12] from now we're going to need $1.3
million to do that annual plan, well,
[1:47:16] we'll track our spending. So we do have
that within our means at that point in
[1:47:21] time. So it's going to eb and flow.
[snorts]
[1:47:26] Land bank. Not much out of here. We just
get some interest every year um and let
[1:47:31] our balance sit. We started off at 6.2
million25. Then we transferred out um
[1:47:36] the city portion of the base grant for
the public works building. So that
[1:47:40] building is completely 100% paid for in
cash. No debt service needed for that
[1:47:45] project. So great use of funds. Saved a
bond payment for 20 years. Um by the end
[1:47:50] of 27, we're still sitting around a $3.7
million fund balance.
[1:47:57] An interest fund. This is just what pays
our debt. It's funded by transfers in
[1:48:01] general fund water sewer. Um special
assessments also go here and it goes
[1:48:06] right back out to pay the debt service
for our annual payments.
[1:48:11] » Barry, I'm sorry I'm slow.
>> If we go back to the land bank,
[1:48:17] um are there any restrictions on how
we're allowed to use this money?
[1:48:24] » So that's a that's a fun loaded
question. [laughter]
[1:48:28] um inside the land bank. Yes. But um the
council always has the option to
[1:48:33] dissolve completely dissolve the land
bank and transfer those funds into the
[1:48:37] general. That would be the the big uh
the big swing. But uh pretty much you
[1:48:43] can use them for some economic
development. Um there I'm losing the my
[1:48:49] mind on the state statute because we uh
we just discussed it when we did that
[1:48:53] transfer for the public works, but it's
it's relatively flexible in the type of
[1:48:57] needs that you would like to use that
money on.
[1:49:00] » Okay. Thank you.
>> What was the source of that funds where
[1:49:03] that where that money come from?
>> That would be all our all the land sales
[1:49:06] we've done over the last 10 years. Yeah.
>> Thank you.
[1:49:12] And this is the remaining amount from
those sales. It's the remaining amount.
[1:49:16] Correct.
[1:49:22] » Interest payments. Equipment reserve
fund. This is funded by general fund
[1:49:26] water and sewer. Our annual transfers
there. The 400,000 comes in per year. We
[1:49:31] take that 400,000 in per year and budget
out all of the equipment. I know it's
[1:49:35] really hard to read. Sorry. I tried to
fit it all in there just to show it. Um,
[1:49:38] [laughter] but it has all of our admin,
parks and wreck, parks, um, water,
[1:49:42] sewer, streets, uh, PD, fleet, and heavy
equipment on the schedule planned out
[1:49:48] for 10 years. So, right now, as of what
we currently have, we have a replacement
[1:49:53] plan for it over that time frame. And
this will more than fund that program as
[1:49:56] we move across that 10ear period.
>> And and we don't want to be here till
[1:50:00] 9:30, but um, this is kind of the Barry
and Ted version. The James version is a
[1:50:07] lot more in depth and uh he could he
could fill you with um tons of knowledge
[1:50:13] that we've even learned from this our
new hire. I'm very very happy with James
[1:50:18] and what he's doing to just make us
rethink the fleet maintenance
[1:50:22] completely. Um, I mean, we're talking
[snorts] uh how much it costs per mile
[1:50:28] on on certain vehicles, probably proper
fleet ma maintenance, but he's actually
[1:50:31] doing it and we're going to start
implementing here and there uh to one
[1:50:35] save taxpayer money, but two, but have
reliable vehicles uh at all times. So,
[1:50:41] um, again, I'll I'll let James take the
podium at a later date when he's ready,
[1:50:45] but, uh, very impressed with his work
and I think you'll see a lot of fruits,
[1:50:49] uh, and honestly, a lot of return on
that investment we made this year.
[1:50:54] » Barry, one other thing I I didn't want
to cut you off when you were doing that,
[1:50:57] but I did want to touch one more time on
the land bank money. Um, just wanted to
[1:51:02] make a statement. One, thank you. And
some of we all [clears throat] know
[1:51:05] this, but the fact that we were able to
build the public works facility with the
[1:51:09] grant and do it with no debt is amazing.
And I think that you guys deserve a lot
[1:51:14] of credit for staying on that and making
it work. But also, we have to remember
[1:51:17] that the reason why we had those funds
was because we borrowed a lot of money,
[1:51:21] bought a lot of land that,
you know, generated that issue. But at
[1:51:26] least we put some of those funds back to
use and paying for a facility that's
[1:51:29] going to benefit the city for decades.
But I'll also
[1:51:33] say that I don't like the idea of
keeping that money in that bank for too
[1:51:39] much longer. I'd like to see us put that
back into the community in a way that
[1:51:43] could be a value proposition for our
community and we can start benefiting
[1:51:47] from whatever that thing is in the in
the nearer future. Um,
[1:51:53] this body has no control over what the
next body might do, but that money could
[1:51:57] be spent any number of ways. Um, so I
just put that out there that we need to
[1:52:02] be thinking about how we can put that
money to use for the community.
[1:52:06] » Definitely. Yes, we need to.
[1:52:15] » So for 2027 out [clears throat] of
equipment reserve fund, we have two PD
[1:52:19] responders um scheduled. the PD drone,
the passenger van at the rec center, um
[1:52:25] computer replacements, the track Bobcat,
new new Holland TLA or TL100A, um new
[1:52:33] mower, and that totals around 443,000.
So that'll get us to a fund balance of
[1:52:38] right around 1.1 million in fiscal year
27.
[1:52:47] CIP reserve fund. Um, council member
Dean, this is what we'll talk about the
[1:52:51] sky view park here. This fund's funded
by the transfer from general fund of
[1:52:55] that 415,000 a year. It's 400,000 for
the projects and we al always do the
[1:52:59] 15,000 for the sidewalk reimbursement
grant. Um, if that is continued. Um,
[1:53:05] this fund it's
it's like we were talking about with the
[1:53:10] zoning code updates downstairs. The CIP
[clears throat] reserve fund, it's a
[1:53:13] living breathing document. It can change
anytime we want it to change. Just
[1:53:17] because we have items up here that we
want to talk about does not mean that
[1:53:21] they are set in concrete and then we
must do them. It's a non-budgeted fund.
[1:53:25] We have no requirements to spend what we
want out of here.
[1:53:30] So for based on our discussion last
time, um we got Sky View Park going.
[1:53:35] It'll start here in 26. I don't know if
it'll be done in 26, but maybe early 27.
[1:53:40] Um, we have 50,000 for engineering
architecture for city hall and the rec
[1:53:44] center. We have an HVAC replacement for
city hall. For the other seven units, I
[1:53:49] think it was um the sidewalk grant
program still in there. And we have
[1:53:53] 100,000 for wreck maintenance repairs
and then 150,000 for refreshing existing
[1:53:57] parks.
With all those, at the end of 27, we'll
[1:54:02] have a fund balance of around 890,000.
[1:54:10] Barry, you might go back one slide and
touch a little bit on what we're
[1:54:13] thinking as far as paying for some of
the drainage improvements. Uh,
[1:54:17] » sorry, skip right over that.
>> I think that's a really nice a good idea
[1:54:20] that we should touch on.
>> Yeah. So for one of our recent projects
[1:54:26] um regarding a lot of drainage
improvements was Voro Park that that
[1:54:30] project um there were definitely some
overages along with the city portion
[1:54:34] that was guaranteed when we initiated
those projects. So our total city
[1:54:38] portion of that project came out around
585,000
[1:54:42] overall all said and done. Um obviously
storm water doesn't have the money to
[1:54:47] cover that cost now. So, what we're
proposing is we'll take out a CIP um
[1:54:52] 335,000 of that out of CIP this year,
then Storm Water will reimburse CIP
[1:54:58] those funds over the next two fiscal
years.
[1:55:01] » I do that.
>> So, essentially instead of bonding it
[1:55:05] and paying interest, we're
>> we're using CIP funds, but we'll get
[1:55:09] paid back. So, it's it's more of a
So, we're not paying interest on on
[1:55:14] money if we have some idle reserve that
we can use.
[1:55:22] » Thanks, Ted. Let's skip right over that.
>> Always better to borrow from ourselves.
[1:55:27] » You know, it's it made more sense and
and we're getting ready to start
[1:55:31] [snorts] we're getting ready to finish
audit season and go straight into bond
[1:55:35] season. So, we wanted to have that
conversation tonight so you guys aren't
[1:55:38] surprised or what asking questions.
We'll bring it back up when we roll that
[1:55:42] bond uh in the next couple months.
>> Okay.
[1:55:46] » Um
so yeah, that's what we the ideas we
[1:55:50] have presented for 2027. If those are
all if we want to do all of those, then
[1:55:55] um that drops our fund balance down to
that 890 611 number at the end of 27.
[1:55:59] Once again, this is just a plan. It's
not set in stone. Anything that comes
[1:56:05] out of this fund will come before you
for presentation and approval. Um it's
[1:56:09] not a blank check or anything like that.
So
[1:56:16] we have there um
>> I already have this all inputed in that
[1:56:20] state form I talked about last time. So
this is the budget hearing notice that
[1:56:23] will be published in the paper on August
20th. Um this is what be sent out. It
[1:56:27] shows the actuals for 25, estimates for
26 and proposed budget for 27. It does
[1:56:33] say the mill levy is 41.03 003, which is
what we filed on our intent to exceed
[1:56:37] the levy form we submitted to the county
in July. So, we're all um up to code
[1:56:42] there. Um but once again, I do think
that number will fall around to that
[1:56:46] 40.75 number
when November gets here and those final
[1:56:51] numbers come out. I didn't realize I
talk with my hand so much. Hang on a
[1:56:56] second. There there's a couple things we
didn't talk about that was mentioned
[1:57:00] earlier and I I want to address a few of
them. Uh we are looking at some health
[1:57:05] insurance uh options for our um for our
uh employees. That's something that
[1:57:12] we're already budgeting for where where
we're at right now. So any cost savings
[1:57:16] we'll we'll be able to discuss and and
review with you. The other thing that
[1:57:20] didn't quite make it just because I I
didn't think it um economic development,
[1:57:25] we've met with a few type of uh there's
some outsourcing e economic development
[1:57:29] opportunities.
um the value in that we can have
[1:57:33] discussions about it. I just didn't feel
um right now $50,000 for, you know, some
[1:57:39] training and some different things
didn't quite match up with me. It didn't
[1:57:42] make it to the main board. Um but that's
definitely something that's always on
[1:57:46] top of our mind. I do my best to meet
with everyone and uh honestly with all
[1:57:51] the housing and the growth we got going
on that we're really starting to get
[1:57:54] recognized. So, how do we how do we
steamroll that into more successes? and
[1:57:59] I'm I'm very open for that conversation
and uh but it just didn't quite make it
[1:58:04] past the line for what we were looking
at earlier this year. So that that's a
[1:58:08] little update on that, but always
welcome to have that discussion with you
[1:58:19] » and that's just our remaining schedule.
We'll um we're presenting the final
[1:58:23] draft today. We'll get it published in
the paper on the 20th and then on the
[1:58:26] 1st we'll hold our revenue neutral rate
hearing. We'll adopt the resolution to
[1:58:32] exceed the RNR with a roll call vote at
the hearing and then we'll hold our 2027
[1:58:38] budget hearing and um have the item to
adopt the 2027 budget. And the rest of
[1:58:43] that is just internal things. We'll
publish it to the website. Then I'll get
[1:58:47] everything wrapped up in a nice bow and
send it to Cedric County for submitt.
[1:58:53] That's all I got.
[1:58:57] If there's any questions or
>> I I just had a couple of just really
[1:59:02] fast things. First of all, thank you
guys. Back in May, hearing all the
[1:59:07] department heads, I'm like, there is
zero nonsense in here. And we used to
[1:59:10] subtract out, you know, our land debt.
This is a this is a tight ship you guys
[1:59:15] are running. So, thank you. Um, and it's
cool about that IRB that we get that
[1:59:19] symbolic drop. Um, kind of painfree. Um,
regarding the water 3%, I know we
[1:59:25] touched on the last workshop.
>> So, you guys are comfortable with that
[1:59:28] knowing we might need a water tower. You
know, even that even though that fund is
[1:59:33] high, you're comfortable doing the
holding the line for now and with the
[1:59:38] intent we're going to go back and
continue that 3% increase each year.
[1:59:43] » Yeah, I'm comfortable with the one year
for sure. Um, now once we get ahead and
[1:59:48] get into the timing of when that water
tower actually come, we may have to make
[1:59:53] a bigger adjustment one year, two years
down the road and then drop back down to
[1:59:57] three. It just all depends on that
timing and the overall cost and how we
[2:00:00] approach that.
[2:00:05] » Okay.
>> But the the $100,000 difference isn't
[2:00:09] going to make a huge impact on a $3
million project if we get to that point.
[2:00:13] So, yeah.
[2:00:22] Once again, the water and sewer funds
there, [clears throat] even though they
[2:00:25] are budgeted at the 0% increase, the
expenditures is what really matters. So,
[2:00:29] when we normally do the water and sewer
rates in November, it's fine if we do it
[2:00:34] then or don't do it then. Like, it's not
going to affect what we have to have
[2:00:38] certified to the county for our budget.
They're just worried about our
[2:00:41] expenditure side. If we do increase
rates, then our revenues will just come
[2:00:44] in a little bit higher. If we keep it at
0%, then it should be pretty close to
[2:00:48] what we have on the board here today.
>> So, this is th this doesn't tie us to a
[2:00:53] a no increase. If we decide later that
we we need to do that. Okay. All right.
[2:00:59] That's good to know. I like I would like
probably a little more finite analysis
[2:01:04] on that on the water fund because uh
while I thought it was good idea, I
[2:01:09] wanted to see the numbers. and you say,
"Well, it it worked on paper, but these
[2:01:14] are some things we didn't think about.
We need to we need to think about
[2:01:17] those." So,
>> and just a quick update, I'm meeting
[2:01:19] with the author of our master plan
tomorrow at 9:00, 9:00 in the morning.
[2:01:24] So, I'll have some some of that
information to you guys well before we
[2:01:27] need to actually make the official
decision in November. I just think it's
[2:01:31] important we have these discussions now
during budget season because a lot of
[2:01:34] times we'll get to November and say,
"Oh, I gotta pass this resolution of 3%
[2:01:38] increase." We didn't talk about it. So,
I'm glad we're having the conversation
[2:01:41] now so that we have an informed
conversation when the fee schedule comes
[2:01:45] up. [snorts]
>> Yeah. Thank you.
[2:01:51] » Okay. Any other questions or concerns
with budget proposals
[2:01:56] because this is what's going to be what
we're going to be asked to approve here
[2:02:01] in a couple weeks, right?
>> Yes. Much more condensed, but yes, it
[2:02:04] will be. Yes. [laughter]
>> But the entire state form will be in
[2:02:07] there to see every fund broken out. um
how we need to report it and submit to
[2:02:10] the county. So, it'll all be in there.
[2:02:17] » Okay.
>> Well, thank you very much. I know this a
[2:02:21] lot of work, but it's what you like to
do, right?
[2:02:25] » Like I say, it's my most favorite 12
months of the year. So,
[2:02:27] » yeah.
>> Thank you so much.
[2:02:31] » Okay. Well, that's the only issues on
the agenda for tonight. So, uh, thank
[2:02:35] you everybody for taking time to to, uh,
go through the planning, the zoning
[2:02:40] codes and with the planning commission
and budgets, and I think we're good to
[2:02:44] go. So, everybody have a good evening.
We'll see everybody next Tuesday.