[12:25] Yeah, we got a lot of things to look at.
>> Yeah.
[12:30] » Okay. Um, we're good to go.
>> Yep. Recording. Doing all this ready.
[12:37] Okay.
>> We've been ready for a few minutes now.
[12:39] John,
>> sorry [laughter]
[12:42] this
a new chair.
[12:46] Uh, let's see. will bring the city of
Belleview Planning and Zoning Commission
[12:49] meeting to order for Monday, August
17th, 5:32 p.m. Uh Brian, do you roll
[12:56] call?
>> Great. Mr. Hers here.
[12:58] » Mr. Here.
>> Okay. Um, notice of agenda compliance
[13:04] finding that the regular meeting notice
and agenda were posted in accordance
[13:07] with Idaho code 74204 within 48 hours
prior to the meeting of the city city of
[13:14] Belleview city hall post office on the
city's website on August 13th.
[13:18] » I move the notice for the August 17th,
2026 regular meeting was completed in
[13:22] accordance with Idaho code section
74-204.
[13:26] » I'll second.
>> Okay. All in favor? I I
[13:31] conflict
>> uh [clears throat]
[13:35] item DR26-09
[13:39] that applicant they are friends of ours.
>> Okay.
[13:53] » You have any financial interest?
>> No, sir.
[13:55] » Anybody in your family?
>> No, sir.
[13:57] » Okay. It's a small town.
>> Yeah.
[14:00] » You can get rid of everybody you're
acquainted with. It's gonna be tough.
[14:04] » Exactly.
>> Okay. Um, please public comment. Any
[14:09] comments for items that are not on the
agenda?
[14:16] See, we have couple people online, but I
don't see anybody raising their hand.
[14:23] Okay, we'll move on to the consent
agenda.
[14:29] think
[14:39] I think I was going to take another look
[15:38] Uh, you all set? I'm
>> good. I move to approve consent agenda
[15:46] uh items
A and B.
[15:53] » Second.
>> Okay. All in favor?
[15:56] » I I [clears throat]
[15:58] Okay, new business. Um DR 2608 217 North
Second Street.
[16:10] [laughter]
[16:26] Okay.
[16:36] Okay.
Um, okay. An application for design
[16:41] review approval for the placement of a
manufactured home and construction of
[16:46] the garage with accessories dwelling
unit at 217 North Second Street.
[16:55] » Okay. Brian, do you have anything you
want to
[16:57] » Uh, yeah. Go through this real quick.
Uh, the limited business residential
[17:03] zone requires design review for all
structures. So, even though it is a
[17:08] single family residence, still requires
that review. Uh, there is an accessory
[17:12] dwelling unit proposed with it. Our code
uh does not allow for those if the lot
[17:18] is less than 6,000 square feet. Uh so
there's a requirement that they get a
[17:22] survey done and provide that showing
that it is 600 feet or larger. Um this
[17:28] zone has a maximum parking requirement
for residences. Uh so the requirement
[17:35] for a maximum six parking spaces.
Um,
[17:41] additionally, the uh zone requires that
parking areas in front of building be
[17:46] screened by landscaping uh or moved not
in front of the building, which I think
[17:52] is going to be difficult. So, there's a
requirement to either remove it or
[17:56] screen it effectively. Um they work with
so public works on alleyway improvements
[18:02] and snow removal plan uh and utility
connections
[18:07] and then they need to provide it to your
late and the is here if you have any
[18:12] questions.
[18:22] Is there anything else that you'd like
to add to that?
[18:33] You guys have questions?
>> I guess it looks like right now
[18:38] according to the GIS, we're coming up a
couple of square feet short,
[18:42] » right? Bl County GIS calculates it based
on
[18:47] GIS math and it usually is pretty close,
but it's not surveyed. Yeah. So,
[18:56] survey by smart and it's 8 ft over 6,000
a little bit larger just over
[19:07] threshold 6000
have the survey it's from this year
[19:13] recent
[19:17] the results of those don't change most
barely stay.
[19:31] [snorts]
[19:46] » Let's see. Brian, you were talking about
the the
[19:50] um
parking and screening.
[19:56] Walk walk me through that where what's
required and what's being proposed. Is
[20:04] there a way to find that?
Um,
[20:09] so like I said, this residential zone
has, I believe it's a four space maximum
[20:15] for a single family residence and a six
space for a two family residence. Since
[20:19] this is a house with an AU, it kind of
falls in the queen by air outside of a
[20:23] two family residence. Um,
so there's a twocar garage, parking for
[20:29] three cars in the front, and then along
the side here,
[20:33] uh, is identified as gravel parking
space. Just on the length of it, looks
[20:39] like you could fit three to four cars. I
don't recall exactly how many I counted.
[20:45] Um,
so my recommendation, we just remove the
[20:50] three parking spaces along Second Street
and have a nice little front yard area.
[20:57] Uh,
and then you can still use the garage
[21:01] and the parking lot inside.
[21:06] Okay. So, not have the parking up top,
right?
[21:12] But then we've got some trees here.
maple trees. Would that still then allow
[21:16] for like
>> Yeah, there's also sufficient spacing to
[21:21] add.
[21:28] Are there Well, let's see here. Are
there other
[21:32] Let's see. Right next to it is a home
that has
[21:41] um
my
[21:48] It's actually
[22:08] the challenge is that I got to be like
this.
[22:12] It's normal.
[22:20] See the storage.
[22:41] So what does our code say with we can't
have parking on second because of
[22:51] is that because it's light industrial
limited
[23:01] » it's not no parking on the second it's a
maximum total
[23:04] » maximum parking right
And then a screening requirement.
[23:10] » Screening requirement
either be located at the rear building
[23:16] or screens.
Not necessarily completely screen but
[23:21] nicely.
[23:57] really not a good way to to screen that
parking off a second that I can see
[24:02] » with I mean with the footprint of
everything that we've got going on
[24:08] screen.
>> Yeah. I mean if you could put screening
[24:11] in the right of way then
That would be different but you got to
[24:15] keep that and that's
got to stay clear.
[24:21] » Oh let's see. So that is there is
[24:27] so yeah I guess with this uh page 69 the
site
[24:34] » site plan there that does so the parking
is 100% on this property and there is a
[24:39] 25 foot back
street is that right
[24:44] » yes from the right
25
[25:09] You could potentially do
[25:16] if you did some some screening or some,
you know, some shrubs or something like
[25:21] right along the property line. You could
probably sneak two
[25:29] two parking spots like here
[25:35] and it's
[25:38] see where you're going with that.
Well, then don't we don't we allow for
[25:45] some
um
[25:49] as far as trees or shrubs in the right
way? I mean, I know we're kind of
[25:55] our current code allows for roadways,
utilities,
[26:01] and range
as
[26:14] Yeah, you said our current code, but
we're
[26:20] in well once we we're trying to address
that in the future to create a code
[26:25] which would allow for
>> Yes.
[26:28] » for that
[26:32] which we would actually encourage
and in right location. Yeah.
[26:42] appropriate. Yeah.
Yeah.
[26:47] Tree or
something.
[27:04] Uh so with
[27:11] process-wise,
you know, assuming that we move forward
[27:15] with with modifying that in our code and
that does pass to allow for
[27:23] um vegetation right away.
Um
[27:30] would would he the applicant be able to
come back to apply for uh to put right
[27:35] away
>> and then and then at that point modify
[27:38] the
>> um
[27:45] » right right now with a 20 you know if
this is 20 ft wide um you could easily
[27:52] get some shrubs in there and then one
car um
[27:57] you know If those shrubs were right on
the property line and you parked
[28:01] carefully, you could probably get two
cars in there.
[28:04] » Um, depending on what exactly those
shrubs were. Um,
[28:09] you know, you could do something that's,
you know, that gets to 4 feet tall and
[28:15] foot and a half in diameter, right?
>> Put half a dozen of those there and and
[28:20] that becomes in my mind pretty good
screening.
[28:24] Um, and then you know that car pulls in.
One would be pretty comfortable and
[28:32] easy. Two would be tight.
>> And how many do we total do we need? We
[28:37] need to have six maximum.
>> I'm just trying to figure a way where,
[28:45] you know, because you don't want all the
parking to be in the back. If we're
[28:49] setting this up or if we're assuming
that this is two families, you know,
[28:54] some parking, you know, on the on the
side of the lot that the that the
[28:59] modular home is on would, I think, be
appropriate and highly preferable
[29:08] versus having the parking blocking the
garage from exiting. That just seems
[29:14] like a
like a tenant squabble waiting to
[29:19] happen.
>> Yeah.
[29:26] » Yeah. Uh
well, we need to we need to have a well
[29:33] maximum of six, I guess. But um
>> so are we considering this a twocar
[29:38] garage or three? A
>> twocar garage. Just like that.
[29:43] » All parts along the side and then
breathe card.
[29:46] » Oh, along the side, right?
[29:53] Well, that could definitely get
[30:00] set so that there's like a, you know, a
designated number of spots in that in
[30:05] that gravel area. Yeah.
>> My measure went 82 ft. Assuming they're
[30:12] parallel parks,
that is 23 foot is the parking length on
[30:16] that. So,
[30:21] of course, they could drive through the
alley.
[30:24] almost like
[30:34] [snorts] do we invite some uh
input from the applicant as far as what
[30:39] they would like to what their preference
would be to to kind of
[30:44] adjust this parking plan? Most
definitely. Yeah.
[30:49] Do you you see where we're at and what
we're struggling with? the gas cops or
[30:54] » ideally you would have parking on the on
the rear garage and then parking at the
[30:59] front or
the manufactured house
[31:06] and on the side the long drive through
would be store RV or some kind of
[31:11] trailer
[31:15] only.
>> Sure.
[31:23] um
should be just a single person in the
[31:27] ADU. one family that's one and the front
would be
[31:32] a family with
two adult two married couple or married
[31:37] couple
[31:42] born in like a small
under 10
[31:49] » children
[31:54] » sure but the permit has to be for what
could happen in future.
[31:59] » We can't tailor it too closely to
>> figure
[32:07] [laughter]
like
[32:11] on both sides on both sides of this
parcel there is parking. They have their
[32:15] the garage is sort of in the front of
the home with the front door on the side
[32:19] and they have
parking in the garage and on the
[32:23] concrete
system.
[32:29] » So yeah, with with that then the the
garage parking is that within the six
[32:35] foot setback or not?
>> No, this site plane you're seeing it
[32:38] all.
>> Okay.
[32:43] So yeah, then there could be another
option to put one there on I guess it'd
[32:46] be
the upper left hand corner, right? That
[32:51] would still
would be parking for the garage, but it'
[32:55] be parking
there.
[33:00] I mean, maybe a little bit awkward
depend on where the
[33:05] there's a back door or whatever
residence, but that's another spot if
[33:09] we, you know, had some shrugs or
something along the front.
[33:13] Thank you recommending that.
>> Is your intent for the for the
[33:20] modular home occupants to use the garage
for parking or is your intent to have
[33:26] the ADU occupants use the garage for
parking?
[33:31] » The ADU occupants will use the garage.
Okay. So,
[33:38] » okay. So, to my mind, we need to find a
we need to find a way to accommodate
[33:44] a couple cars on on or near the second
street side rather than the alley side
[33:52] » is how I'm
>> uh
[33:56] conceptualizing this. So,
[34:01] is there a Brian? Is there a way that we
can
[34:07] have a
gravel have a portion of that be
[34:12] designated as like a gravel storage area
that rather than a rather than having
[34:18] the whole thing be designated as gravel
parking space
[34:24] or is that splitting that here too?
Finally,
[34:26] » designate it whatever we want.
Generally, if you designate something
[34:31] with the knowledge that it's going to be
used for something else, you're setting
[34:33] it up for code enforcement issues.
>> Sure.
[34:38] » Well, but I guess that's where I'm going
with this is that
[34:43] the I don't think we are setting it up
with the knowledge that it will be used
[34:47] for something else. I think a
a place to store
[34:54] an RV or a trailer. I mean, that's
different than a single vehicle parking
[34:58] space.
>> Yes. So, if the intent is not to park
[35:04] four cars along the side of the modular
home, but rather to to
[35:10] do seasonal storage of of an RV or or a
trailer, then that's to my mind that
[35:19] that is
um designating it to the
[35:26] actual future use.
[35:32] could just yeah or require that the
storage alongside be for RVs or similar
[35:40] enough for vehicle parking
[35:44] and then it's just an ongoing
requirement that they maintain that
[35:52] you know maybe we move snow storage to
to somewhere in here so
[36:01] It's, you know, at least in winter time,
that snow storage
[36:06] area is blocking
so that you can't just pull on through,
[36:12] » right?
>> And then this this spot here,
[36:18] you can park a
park a car there.
[36:23] That's not really screened if you're
pulling through here, but
[36:29] it's back further off the street.
[36:42] Maybe this is getting too far into
designing the
[36:46] » need to feel obligated.
Well, and the other part of it too that
[36:51] I would be concerned about it being a
neighbor is if we plant a tree too close
[36:55] to the to the fence, then we're
actually, you know, then you're
[37:00] encroaching, you know, depending on the
type of tree and what it is onto the
[37:05] neighbor's property, they might like or
they may dislike.
[37:09] And
that's right. That's why they're
[37:14] Yeah.
Um
[37:18] yeah, I mean that's that is kind of a a
weird thing where here is actually doing
[37:25] the design
on the fly here which
[37:32] I'm not totally
[37:35] uh if we
if we deny this can we deny it with the
[37:41] specific
you know on the on the grounds of of the
[37:45] specific parking issue and give staff
authority to do an administrative
[37:51] approval without having to do you know
submit a new
[37:55] » I would deny it. I would
>> add a condition of approval or modify
[38:00] one conditional
>> and then
[38:04] » Gotcha.
So we could we could approve it
[38:09] with a condition that that parking
uh
[38:15] parking plan gets adjusted gets modified
to to meet code and give staff approval
[38:22] to or give staff authority to
administratively approve that revision.
[38:27] » Yeah.
>> Okay.
[38:30] » Okay. Um and then also with with that if
you modify
[38:38] including some vegetation um to
>> yeah I think we provide that as a
[38:43] suggestion for for a direction to move
towards towards meeting that
[38:49] requirement.
>> Yeah
[38:51] » that would satisfy the parking issue for
me.
[38:59] everything else on.
>> Yeah, I I think the rest of it looks all
[39:03] right.
[39:06] Um,
>> yes,
[39:08] » you know, we'd want to leave a a
condition of approval
[39:14] on exterior lighting that a lighting
plane gets submitted. That's all that's
[39:19] dark sky compliant.
[39:22] » I think that's probably in the suggested
>> Yes.
[39:27] » conditions. Right.
>> Yep.
[39:34] » And I am not a expert by any means as
far as moving or setting up a project or
[39:39] home, but I'm assuming that actually one
can get
[39:43] with the room where the speed of the
bike and everything else. One can
[39:47] actually be placed
somebody can back in there. [laughter]
[39:51] » Those guys are good.
>> Skilled backer.
[39:54] » I have the answer to that. They're going
to have to rent a special thing called a
[39:58] trans cat because it's going to it's
coming in in two pieces. First piece
[40:04] there's not enough room on the lot to
have two side by side. So they bring in
[40:08] one piece they pull it to the when it's
placed on the concrete they pull it to
[40:11] the other side and then probably the
next day bringing section two
[40:17] pieces together. So be like a two day
[40:24] » as long as it's logistically possible.
>> They have the equipment to do it.
[40:34] » Looks like condition one is
met
[40:39] » or or easily will be when that when that
survey gets submitted.
[40:46] two is what we were just talking about.
[40:51] » And three,
[40:57] » four is standard.
Five is what we were just talking about.
[41:02] I
[41:06] think I'm comfortable with this.
>> Oh, okay.
[41:09] Uh I move to approve uh DR 2608 subject
to the conditions outlined in the staff
[41:14] report and to direct staff to prepare
findings of fact conclusions of law and
[41:20] decision documents reflecting this
recommendation based on the record
[41:23] provided.
I'll second
[41:39] here.
>> Okay.
[41:43] » All right. [clears throat] Moving on to
DR 2679, addition of
[41:52] addition to 213 North Third Street.
Application for design review approval
[41:57] for a setback encroachment for an
additional an addition to a structure
[42:02] located at
[42:09] » Yes.
>> This one
[42:12] they got started a little bit. If you
look on the GIS, you can see it's in
[42:17] progress. We've been working with them
on getting it fixed and all up to stuff
[42:23] and all that. Uh the reason in front of
you guys tonight if I can find
[42:32] zoom way
[laughter]
[42:35] right there
is just a couple inches over
[42:41] » that's the eve.
>> Yep. So by coincident residential zone
[42:46] they can get a reduction to four feet
with design approval.
[42:50] » Have you talked to them about using a 1x
six spacer instead of a 2x6 face?
[42:53] [laughter]
>> I think they volunteered to get
[43:01] [laughter]
[43:05] a foot right that if that
[43:11] I looked at the
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's inches.
[43:30] » I'm good.
>> You're good.
[43:32] » Okay.
[43:44] 2609.
>> Yes.
[43:46] » Uh I move to approve design review 2609.
[43:52] » Sec.
>> I I
[43:57] Okay, we're on to the third one. Uh
CP62,
[44:04] Family Health Services Parking Lot
Extension.
[44:11] » You know, I was I do recall. And what
was it? What was it? This came in front
[44:16] of us
ago.
[44:20] » No, this the the parking lot.
>> I think it was 202.
[44:26] » Oh. Oh, this one. Yeah. Yeah, that's
right. Yep.
[44:28] » And I was curious what Was
there much change earlier?
[44:37] I did not mean the plans that were
submitting at that point in time. I
[44:43] would guess that they're very similar
because that's really one way of doing
[44:48] this.
>> Yeah. Well, I'm curious why it's in
[44:50] front of us again.
>> Uh because they didn't progress
[44:56] and progress on construction within the
year.
[45:01] expired. Yeah.
>> Okay.
[45:04] So, any changes then?
>> No. Um [clears throat]
[45:08] with engineering, but no major changes
to the parking lot layout. We did uh the
[45:13] director add some landscaping um into
the parking lot layout to a little
[45:19] there's there's two additional trees on
street side um to create some some
[45:23] vegetation for a fronting the highway.
And then we also omitted all of the ITD
[45:28] improvements that were previously
proposed. Um we reached out to ITD and
[45:33] they're planning on constructing the
sidewalk section in 2027
[45:37] to next year. So that will be something
that ITD is installing.
[45:45] » But the on improvements are largely the
>> and as far as it does say here the
[45:50] landscaping green. Um what
[clears throat] what landscaping are you
[45:56] closing? Did I miss that or is that
>> I don't think we specified that the
[46:01] owner is going to work with a landscape
installer. Um we will have you know I
[46:05] think there's existing trees that we'll
try to maintain where possible. They're
[46:08] really nice shade trees. And then we'll
have two new trees um that are proposed
[46:11] in the two-way scape island. And then
we'll probably have some
[46:16] the
[46:20] » Yeah, that south end basically kind of
>> falls off.
[46:25] » Yeah.
[46:29] » Yeah. I was going to maybe recommend
some taller trees in there, but I'm not
[46:32] sure if that would be a good idea as far
as winter. That's going to cast a lot of
[46:36] shade. probably ice a parking lot. We
don't probably need that in the family
[46:41] services type of a facility.
>> Yeah.
[46:44] » Reduce the amount of ice.
>> Yeah. Well, I I would love if we can let
[46:50] the the owners work with the lander for,
you know, to make a recommendation
[46:54] that'll be good for screening and also
shade the too much.
[46:59] » Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my
recommendation, especially on that side.
[47:02] Yeah.
[47:30] Well, I move to approve it the first
time around.
[47:34] » [laughter]
[47:41] » I move to approve CUP 2602.
I will second uh well with
[47:50] with conditions uh [snorts] recommended
by staff. There's some stuff about
[47:56] » um
building permit before starting
[48:00] construction and stuff like that.
So, you want me to remake the motion? I
[48:07] withdraw my motion.
[48:11] [laughter]
>> I'll do my best.
[48:16] » Uh, I move to approve CUP 2601 for an
expansion of the motor vehicle sales.
[48:24] Whoa, no, that's a long page.
Not where I need to be.
[48:30] » Um,
>> 2602. 2602
[48:33] » 621.
>> Okay. I move to approve COP 2602. We're
[48:40] a parking lot at the
Family Health Facility at
[48:47] the address again. 621 North 621 North
Main Street.
[48:53] and to direct staff to prepare prepare
findings of fact, conclusions of law and
[48:58] uh decision documents reflecting this
decision.
[49:04] » All in favor?
>> I
[49:12] [clears throat]
Okay, now we are on to
[49:16] preserve management plan action item.
Um,
[49:22] so C city initiated update to the Howard
Preserve Management Plan. Um, and maybe
[49:27] before we get too far into that, I was
curious what our what our role as PMZ is
[49:33] for what's the plan.
>> Uh, it's not really specified, but uh,
[49:39] it seemed like worth bringing to you
guys. It's just tangentially associated
[49:45] with a lot of the other projects we've
got going on. So, Gotcha.
[49:51] Um,
and it's of course it's been updated. I
[49:55] didn't don't know the first one.
>> I printed it out.
[50:02] If you would like to
2017 is the current room. Uh,
[50:09] things that have changed and I suspect
that Florence here may be able to tell
[50:16] us more as well. Um but
it accounts for the acquisition of the
[50:21] buyer's parcel. Um
there is now an annual update and review
[50:28] process where we take the council and
say here's what we did in the last year.
[50:31] Here's some minor changes we should make
to the plan. So we just keep doing that
[50:36] and then every five years we do a more
substantial update. um capital
[50:41] improvement projects. There's a few that
have been added to the list, but it's
[50:44] also split out into short-term and
long-term.
[50:47] Um the events section uh is the part
that really initiated this whole thing.
[50:54] Um the current one
[51:00] allows for two general events per year,
I believe, and
[51:05] small educational events and those sorts
of things. The new version is
[51:12] um
no events except for
[51:16] fundraising activities, small picnics uh
all sponsored by the three managing
[51:23] board or members uh managing agencies.
Um
[51:33] it's changed a little bit. So I printed
out a new version for you guys as well
[51:36] on this one. Uh
[51:40] the managing partners uh can have one
picnic and one fundraising event per
[51:46] year. Uh provided that motor vehicle
access prohibited. The preserve remains
[51:52] open during preparation.
Uh the manu department need notification
[51:58] review 30 60 days prior to the event. Uh
no fires without permit from the fire
[52:03] department. Crash equipment otherwise
removed within 48 hours. Amplified sound
[52:09] is prohibited. Uh alcohol has to be
approved by landing partners and
[52:14] attendance is limited to our to 200.
[52:20] And then the last thing that I noted is
a more significant change is the fire
[52:26] management. Under our current plan, the
only allowable method is for the fire
[52:30] chief to pull coal burn permit and do
control burning in there. U this allows
[52:36] for mechanical vending and other fuels
mitigation strategies utilizing best
[52:41] available science.
[52:45] » So going back to the organized
activities and this does allow for like
[52:51] yeah people to go down and have picnics.
What's what's the threshold on
[52:56] like if somebody you instead of one
family what happens if you want to have
[53:00] four families and you know is there a
number
[53:03] » right
>> um associated with just informal use of
[53:07] the preserve
>> uh it is not specified in that
[53:11] » you can just go down and have a picnic
that's not what we're trying to prevent
[53:16] » an annual picnic that we've usually had
every five years we have a picnic to
[53:21] celebrate the Howard preserve But
anybody could go down there anytime and
[53:25] ask.
>> Well, where I'm going with that,
[53:27] Florence, is like if there's if four if
four families wanted to go down there,
[53:32] you know, and then you've got, say
you've got, you know, 30 people or 40
[53:38] people, you know, down there having a
picnic. Is that cool or not? Where do
[53:43] you where do we draw the line on
>> when does it become an event?
[53:46] » Yeah. When Yeah. When do we when do you
tip the threshold from a just a regular
[53:52] problem?
>> Yeah. Right. [laughter]
[53:54] » So I guess if that problem comes up, we
deal with it. But it's, you know, I
[54:00] think one of the reasons that we're kind
of trying to limit events, you know,
[54:05] private events is because
the preserve has been getting so much
[54:09] increased use.
I mean, we have six 16,000 visitor days
[54:15] approximately this past year. The trails
are getting worn out. You know, there's
[54:22] wildlife there. We have a conservation
easement. We have to sort of balance it
[54:27] all,
>> right?
[54:28] » And I think that's
that's, you know, the public access that
[54:32] people have now, it's not going to
change.
[54:34] » Yeah. It's just that,
you know, people cannot apply for a
[54:41] permit for large events like a big
wedding or something like that. And
[54:45] that's the kind of thing we want to
protect the preserve. I know you guys
[54:50] have a lot of decisions you have to make
that actually reduce wildlife habitat.
[54:56] you know,
subdivisions, Carl Malone, places we
[55:02] used to see animals, don't see them
anymore. They have a chance here kind of
[55:06] just put an extra layer on the hard
preserve just to keep it
[55:12] » Yeah.
>> a little contained in that respect.
[55:15] Well, the reason why I kind of bring
that up is because the one thing that I
[55:18] would would be unfortunate is all of a
sudden if people did have, you know,
[55:22] four families went down there and they
didn't contact the city, they didn't
[55:25] contact anybody, they just went down,
then all of a sudden people are going to
[55:28] get upset because there's but there was
no process or any no way for them to
[55:34] actually try to do the right thing
because they didn't even know there was
[55:37] a thing to do. And I should clarify
this plan is not by like it's not legal,
[55:45] it's not law, it's a guidance document.
Yeah.
[55:48] » Uh the actual laws and ordinances are
city code. Uh our current code has three
[55:54] categories. Uh there's organized event
which is 25 to 99 individuals. Major
[56:00] event is 100 to 199 and a special event
is 200 plus. Gota
[56:09] and so
it would be an event by code if there
[56:14] are more 25 on property.
>> Yeah. City part.
[56:18] » Yeah. Yeah. So we could we could you
know that of course is in the plan. The
[56:24] one thing that I think would be good to
do is somehow um associate that with
[56:29] there's I haven't looked at the website
associated with Howard Preserve or in
[56:35] the interpretive materials that are down
there so that people have we can say
[56:39] that they've been informed.
>> Yeah.
[56:41] » Um otherwise it's on us to it's not
their fault. It would be our fault
[56:46] because they didn't weren't aware of
that.
[56:51] » Cool. Yeah.
I think with the purchase of the Myers
[56:56] property, we plan to have all new
signage down preserves.
[57:01] That's great.
>> And things like that.
[57:05] » Yeah. Yeah.
[57:08] You know, the one thing that I didn't
see anywhere,
[57:13] and I know that it has come up recently
is addressing hazard trees
[57:21] or or maybe I didn't read it mostly
enough to see it. Um, is that
[57:28] in here somewhere that I might have
missed?
[57:34] I thought there was but
that added
[57:40] » there's vegetation
mention hazardous trees just invasive no
[57:48] weeds
um
[57:54] and the one thing that I think it's
important to do
[57:58] [clears throat] with with hazard trees
is
[58:02] you actually need to have, and this
would be a recommendation, have a
[58:07] certified arborist who's actually
certified in hazard trees because
[58:12] there's arborists and then there's
arborists that know hazard trees.
[58:15] There's not that many around to actually
come through and give recommendations.
[58:21] Um, which is, you know,
uh, it's good and bad because soon as
[58:27] you know about the hazard, we got to
address them. Um, but I as I parked
[58:31] underneath parked there, I looked up,
make sure I'm not parked, there's not
[58:36] widow makers or something in the
cottonwood that's going to fall on my
[58:39] car while I'm down there. And by not, I
mean, probably 90% of people have no
[58:45] idea. They should roll in their park and
away they go. Um
[58:49] and then uh anyway I know it's be it's
become a little bit of a [clears throat]
[58:56] of a concern regarding it's like when
you have infrastructure like a parking
[59:02] area um then you have something to
protect or to actually address. But when
[59:09] you just have trails that go through um
those don't necessarily need to you
[59:15] don't need to mitigate every single
hazard. associated with every single
[59:18] trail.
>> Yeah.
[59:19] » Um but I think that would be maybe
important to to to add add to this would
[59:25] be um
uh the mitigation has trees. Um and then
[59:31] maybe put some type of a definition on
that.
[59:35] Um
[59:38] is this you want people to be safe and
don't want vehicles or people or anybody
[59:44] else to be
injured damage.
[1:00:13] Maybe the last thing I guess once this
will go down city council
[1:00:18] going to run through the parks committee
once I a recommendation from both of you
[1:00:24] that is more or less cohesive go
[1:00:31] and then land trust and the friends
They'll have good approve it on there.
[1:00:57] Any
[1:01:04] other significant changes from the
current?
[1:01:12] » I don't believe so. Most of it is
formatting
[1:01:17] other than things that I mentioned
formatting. Uh
[1:01:21] some wording tweaks for clarity.
Well, it's the same [clears throat]
[1:02:12] Um,
[1:02:26] I see a fair amount of
um
[1:02:35] a fair amount of bicycle usage there. Um
I don't
[1:02:43] I don't have a an objection to
it.
[1:02:51] I think my preference would be to not
have like
[1:02:56] no bicycle signs there.
Um,
[1:03:01] you know, obviously that's not really
an,
[1:03:08] you know, potentially we, you know,
limit them to the to the ADA portion of
[1:03:12] the trail. Um, but I think,
you know, it's a nice place to ride a
[1:03:19] bike. Um, my
16-year-old is not particularly
[1:03:25] interested in mountain biking there, but
my 5-year-old and my 8-year-old think
[1:03:29] it's a great place to mountain bike. Um,
you know, so they really enjoy the
[1:03:35] single track. And I realized that, you
know, a 5-year-old and an 8-year-old is
[1:03:39] a very different kind of impact than
[1:03:45] uh a
real [clears throat] mountain biking
[1:03:48] adult um in terms of speed and hazard to
walkers and stuff like that. And I I
[1:03:55] realize you can't write the regulations
around that, but it would be a shame to
[1:04:02] have for for me personally, it would be
a shame to have a
[1:04:07] no bicycles sign at the entrance to the
park. I think that would that would be a
[1:04:13] disappointment to a lot of people and I
think it would be uh you know the the
[1:04:19] impact that I see of bikes there is is
low.
[1:04:24] So, I would,
you know, if we're talking about signage
[1:04:28] and and
you know, what's a rule versus what's a
[1:04:34] guideline,
I'm not quite sure how you
[1:04:39] parse that out, but that would be a a
bit of input that I would have. Is there
[1:04:45] a specific section that you're
looking at that
[1:04:52] » uh in the
[clears throat]
[1:04:56] in the
customary public use permissible regular
[1:05:04] public access currently allows for
passive activities such as hiking, bird
[1:05:08] watching, fishing, cross-country skiing,
photography, and snowshoeing. I'm I'm
[1:05:12] comfortable with that language, with
that verbiage. Um, I'm just thinking as
[1:05:16] we're as we're moving towards, you know,
all new signage and that kind of thing,
[1:05:22] having that as a as a
rule or a signed
[1:05:28] uh regulation, I would be
[1:05:34] I don't know if I'd say I'm against it,
but I would be I'd be bummed, let's put
[1:05:38] it that way, if that was on the sign.
It's not allowed.
[1:05:44] » It doesn't say they are or are not. Uh,
it says, oh, 4.1, public access within
[1:05:51] the preserve is intended to be
pedestrian only. A bicycle wreck is
[1:05:55] provided near the Martin Lane parking
area and others may be installed at
[1:05:58] other entrances in the future. Motorized
juice is prohibited. Totally fine with
[1:06:03] that. Um, and I think ebikes
totally should be included in that. Um,
[1:06:10] so
that that to me is where it gets a
[1:06:14] little, you know, a little fuzzy like,
you know,
[1:06:18] » I have to agree with you. I didn't think
we would have a bicycle back 20 years
[1:06:24] ago.
>> But lately, we've had a lot of kids that
[1:06:28] just don't respect pedestrians riding
bicycles.
[1:06:32] I don't know how to stop that, you know.
And some some adults are not very polite
[1:06:38] either. They don't warn you when you're
coming by
[1:06:41] » and it's increased and
you know
[1:06:46] » and also you know a lot of kids have
these little motorcycles are they
[1:06:50] electric bikes?
>> They're trying to use those in the
[1:06:53] preserve.
>> Yeah.
[1:06:54] » And they don't understand that they're a
vehicle. Have to stop two or three kids
[1:06:59] say walk that bike out of here. Mhm.
>> So, it's something we need to address.
[1:07:04] » I I don't disagree. Um I think I think
the ebikes thing for me is a that's an
[1:07:10] easy one. Like um I don't think that's a
place for
[1:07:16] » gas or electric motors. Um,
you know, I think I think possibly
[1:07:23] because another thing that, you know,
our our more like, you know, middle-aged
[1:07:29] pre-teen kids actually use that as a,
you know, as a way to get into town. Um,
[1:07:36] that is, you know, it's off of Main
Street. It's a safe, you know, a safe
[1:07:41] place to, you know, it's a it's a
corridor that they use to, you know, for
[1:07:47] transportation through town. Um,
>> that I need to go look at something,
[1:07:52] » which is a lot of days.
>> I have a bike. I
[1:07:57] » Yep.
>> Absolutely. And and I think there's a,
[1:08:02] you know, there's maybe a middle ground
where the where the single track down in
[1:08:07] the
down in the river bottom.
[1:08:12] I don't know. I having trails that are
and trails that aren't allowed I I think
[1:08:16] would be getting into a pretty thorny
difficult enforcement
[1:08:22] condition. Um
I think
[1:08:26] to to me I think some signage you know
at the at the entrances to the park you
[1:08:32] know that this is primarily a pedestrian
area. cyclists be respectful of
[1:08:38] pedestrians that something like that
could be a a good kind of middle ground.
[1:08:44] Uh because I it would be a shame to to
to prohibit them. I think
[1:08:53] I would follow that up with installing
more bike decks,
[1:08:59] urge people to park in.
>> Yeah. I hope all this new signage will
[1:09:03] address those kinds of things.
really do to me the signage.
[1:09:07] » Yeah.
>> 20 years old.
[1:09:11] » Yeah. When I was gone down like
[clears throat] you know [laughter]
[1:09:16] this fence, which is fine, but it's also
really hard
[1:09:20] for that.
>> Yeah. Um, and then also you want to make
[1:09:24] sure when you have your your pike
stations is
[1:09:28] close to where people can, you know,
go hang out the canal and, you know,
[1:09:36] don't like that to walk up their bike.
So it's so it's right close by. It's
[1:09:41] what it is instead of at the far end of
the parking lot where you can't get to
[1:09:46] it.
[1:09:50] Yeah, and I would agree with the no
definitely no
[1:09:56] motorized because well that's already
says on motorized but then I would even
[1:09:59] compare with
>> you know it's such it's not like it's a
[1:10:04] a designated trail system like place for
young kids to go ride around whatever
[1:10:10] but for like to go for a mile bike ride
through an hour preserve is not where
[1:10:14] most people are going
>> so I
[1:10:18] webin.
[laughter]
[1:10:23] » Yeah, I think proper signage kind of
gets the point across of what the
[1:10:27] managing partners would encourage. Bike
racks kind of help suggest market.
[1:10:43] Anything else?
[1:10:48] I think I'm comfortable with the rest of
it.
[1:11:10] » Great. Uh the notes I have for edits uh
is the
[1:11:16] uh
[1:11:21] section to allow for hazard tree
removal. Vegetation management section
[1:11:26] hazard removal when identified by
license arbit
[1:11:31] scale wind hazard tree identification
uh and then allowing acoustic bikes
[1:11:38] uh and adding additional bike racks at
all entrances. Did
[1:11:43] » you say acoustic bikes? Yes,
[1:11:48] » I like it. [laughter]
Guitar
[1:11:59] » nonmplified.
[laughter]
[1:12:11] » Well, we need a motion, Brian. I like
that motion.
[1:12:19] » I'll take it back at it. Uh, I move
to
[1:12:26] recommend approval of the
power preserve management plan
[1:12:34] with the
suggested
[1:12:41] uh
adjustments regarding
[1:12:46] bicycle usage.
Tree
[1:12:51] Hazard tree.
>> Hazard tree maintenance.
[1:12:57] » Bike racks
>> and bike racks.
[1:13:02] All [clears throat] set. All
>> right. I passes.
[1:13:06] » Okay.
[1:13:09] [clears throat]
All right.
[1:13:15] Okay. For pass this hurdle.
[laughter]
[1:13:21] Yeah.
Okay. Now we're on to old business.
[1:13:25] » Thank you.
>> Yeah. You're welcome.
[1:13:27] » Thanks for coming.
>> See you.
[1:13:29] » Thanks for
>> um CU 260.
[1:13:36] » Thanks.
>> Uh CU 2601
[1:13:42] for expansion.
[1:13:46] [clears throat]
[1:13:49] Okay. So, here we are.
[1:13:53] Uh, [snorts] this one was in front of
you guys in June, I believe. It been a
[1:13:58] little bit.
Um, but it is back today. Uh, they've
[1:14:04] updated their plans primarily. Uh, the
main difference
[1:14:08] is the landscape plan. We've added five
additional
[1:14:13] uh Colorado spruce along the
northern edge of the property roughly 25
[1:14:20] to 30 feet on center. Uh
they I mean you all know how the screw
[1:14:27] is. It's going to get big and bushy
eventually and those are all kind of
[1:14:32] touched together
wall.
[1:14:38] Um, other than that, site plan appears
to be about the same. Cal Johnson and
[1:14:42] David Hicks are online and can answer
any questions.
[1:14:50] Um, [clears throat]
[1:14:59] » hey, so my my first question and this is
to you guys. Um,
[1:15:07] a lot of Colorado spruce in the valley.
[sighs]
[1:15:11] Kind of nice to see some different types
of trees.
[1:15:15] Um,
and one that I would maybe recommend
[1:15:19] would be best drop that does well in
here in the valley spun.
[1:15:25] Um, tall provides some screen.
>> Um,
[1:15:30] I don't know how you guys feel about
that for them. [clears throat]
[1:15:34] Uh, I am a much bigger fan of Ponderos
of Pine than I am the Blue Spruce. Um,
[1:15:42] we're actually working on a project in
our at my house and we're going to have
[1:15:48] to take some trees out and I'm doing
everything I can to keep the the ponder.
[1:15:54] I've got a I don't know a handful of
good mature ponderosas and a handful of
[1:15:59] good mature blue spruce. And I am
getting rid of every spruce that I can
[1:16:03] to save every ponderosa that I can.
[laughter]
[1:16:08] » Sounds like you could be a bit of that
then. Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat]
[1:16:12] » Yeah. Yeah.
>> They're just way prettier trees. Long
[1:16:15] softer needles and the big pine cones
and they're just
[1:16:21] » to me they're they're a much more
attractive tree.
[1:16:24] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, one thing to keep in mind is
[1:16:27] that as ponderos pine matures, they tend
to drop below branches. So, you just
[1:16:34] have
>> the base of the stone.
[1:16:39] That is an outside.
>> Yeah, you're not going to have say
[1:16:43] visual history.
>> Yeah.
[1:16:46] » Um
I [clears throat] do wonder about
[1:16:51] because the other tree was maple tree.
>> Yeah, it was a maple maple
[1:16:57] » to like um [clears throat]
because the one thing Yeah.
[1:17:03] I'm not a professional landscaper, but I
do know a little bit about it. But just
[1:17:06] to have like a wall of any I don't care
what it's one species of thing. It just
[1:17:11] makes a wall and maybe to inter um to
interace that with maybe a maple or or
[1:17:22] something else. [clears throat] So where
it's not just a wall of whatever type of
[1:17:26] a pine tree it is. It's got maybe two
and one and we got a few more to kind of
[1:17:31] mix that diversity up. Diversity is good
too because if one gets diseased it
[1:17:38] carries over to the next.
So by having different species and
[1:17:43] different types
limit your risk of everything
[1:17:50] out by one bug or one fungus.
>> Yeah.
[1:17:54] » And yeah it does it brings a lot greater
visual variety
[1:18:01] monoculture. Yeah. Well, and then in
addition to that, it's like to go, you
[1:18:06] know, it looked like they stopped right
there where the um
[1:18:11] where the employee parking stops, you
know, it's like [clears throat] yet
[1:18:16] there's still, you know,
two/ird of the lot or twoirds of yeah,
[1:18:21] the lot that goes back to the west. I
just didn't like to see those those
[1:18:26] trees extend all the way to the head of
the property.
[1:18:30] Um so, we're providing screening. um for
the the inventory storage area. I
[1:18:36] realize there's fence around it, but
>> yeah, got dog woods and other things
[1:18:41] specified
along the fence.
[1:18:53] [clears throat]
[1:18:55] » I see a lot of trees.
>> You would or Yeah. Yeah.
[1:19:01] » Right. trees, two, three different
species, coniferous, deciduous.
[1:19:10] See, if you did, if you did that, ran it
all the way back to the back corner when
[1:19:13] you wouldn't necessarily got need
anything there in front of the fence.
[1:19:20] um
or you get up
[1:19:25] uh
[1:19:29] and kind of to Brian's point
end up putting some there or something
[1:19:34] then you do have some lower shrubs and
you still
[1:19:39] so that's probably
be a good idea to keep
[1:20:00] And then I'm not What's the What's Can
you see the back of that inventory
[1:20:06] storage area from down below anywhere?
Is that like visually
[1:20:11] um
a visual to anyone.
[1:20:20] » This is owned by the airport. This is
the ranch bar, I believe.
[1:20:27] Uh
[1:20:30] potentially if this parcel were to get
developed at some point in the future,
[1:20:37] there may be some
[1:20:41] opportunity to see something, but it
would be questionable whether that
[1:20:46] Yeah.
[1:20:56] And you know the reason I throw that out
is like you know we are talking about
[1:21:00] [clears throat] you know conserving
water but yeah we're creating something
[1:21:03] but something that nobody can see and
we're just
[1:21:07] maybe isn't a good use of resources.
[1:21:45] I'll just throw out a couple other
things that um
[1:21:49] unless we want to stick with vegetation
for a moment.
[1:21:53] » Um on that other stuff I'd like to talk
about.
[1:21:58] » Okay. So, well, you want to go ahead
with your
[1:22:01] » Yeah. Why don't you go with what
>> Okay.
[1:22:04] Um no particular order. you know, if
there's the the fence, the one thing
[1:22:09] that I think that that fence needs to
be, because we're talking about
[1:22:14] basically, if not mistaken, has a chain
link fence with SL in it or whatever,
[1:22:18] right?
>> Is for that fence to be black.
[1:22:21] Um, and you've seen it in different
places. There's you can have a black
[1:22:26] chain link fence. Um, and it is way
nicer visually, way less visually in
[1:22:34] your face than a silver, you know, than
the galvanized beds.
[1:22:38] » Um,
so I would [clears throat] I think we
[1:22:42] ought I recommend that be black and then
[1:22:48] Yeah.
Then they rubberized or coated with no
[1:22:54] slats
with slats. Well, see that's
[1:22:59] » those flats. I mean, they look good on
day one, maybe, but they sort of
[1:23:03] » they look tolerable on day one.
[laughter]
[1:23:08] » They don't last.
>> They provide the screening until
[1:23:11] something hits it.
>> Yeah. And then it's we get into a
[1:23:17] maintenance issue for them and for us.
And what does that look like? place that
[1:23:24] um
[1:23:28] you know I what I would recommend is
>> [clears throat]
[1:23:32] » um and maybe I'll just bring it up
is show you guys a picture um I
[1:23:40] mentioned this before with the
um
[1:23:45] the city of Ketchum and they're um
uh down up there
[1:23:52] by the elementary school. They've got
some things that they actually put on
[1:23:57] the fence and it actually looks like a
mountainscape.
[1:24:01] Um, and I took a picture of it here
when I was up there last and and it's
[1:24:27] um and maybe the one thing that you
you're okay with it. If we go to Can you
[1:24:33] bring up um
like Google Maps
[1:24:41] since I'm having a hard time finding
this cool
[1:24:44] and just go to the
[clears throat]
[1:24:48] And you can go to street view. Oh, here
it is. Of course, nobody's going to be
[1:24:52] able to see it. So,
[1:25:00] And that's
[1:25:08] one
you have to go over by the other side of
[1:25:13] the field.
Oh yeah,
[1:25:21] just
have to go that way a little bit more.
[1:25:26] » A little bit more.
Yeah, right where those cars are parked.
[1:25:31] And then if you look back to the
[1:25:43] go a little bit further to the to where
the raw cars are.
[1:25:52] And you can of course there's some
shrubs there and stuff. Can't really
[1:25:56] tell.
[1:26:00] You can kind of mesh you kind of the one
thing on that on that that fence is of
[1:26:06] course in that picture there's fabric
there. So there's it's not a true
[1:26:10] representation. There's a black fence
but then there's some mesh but then the
[1:26:14] the light blue is kind of like you can
see it's kind of like a mountain
[1:26:18] silhouette.
Um, yeah. And it helps break up the
[1:26:23] continuity of the Um,
>> Can you send me that photo so that I can
[1:26:29] share it with the applicants?
>> Yeah. Um, I was going to see, is there a
[1:26:34] way that I can do this
so you can put it up there? Can I email
[1:26:38] it to you?
>> Yeah, you can email it to me.
[1:26:40] [clears throat]
[1:27:05] Yeah.
Um
[1:27:14] yeah, I mean something like that. Um, I
would be in favor of trying to
[1:27:23] to do and then then you could, you know,
not have the slats coming down and then
[1:27:29] just provide a little bit of a because I
think where people will see it is, you
[1:27:33] know, when they're of course driving in
to go to the gas station, you'll have
[1:27:38] some of the
vegetation [clears throat] there where
[1:27:41] people drive by, but then you will be
able to see through to that fence,
[1:27:46] » you
where the storage area is. So to have
[1:27:49] something along um along that section of
the fence
[1:27:53] » well that will probably still give them
you know visual screening as well
[1:27:58] because I'm sure a big concern for them
is security
[1:28:02] anything back there
>> right
[1:28:04] » so it kind of accomplishes both
[1:28:11] [clears throat]
[1:28:18] I think that's one thing that I would
throw out.
[1:28:30] » You like to hear from the applicants?
>> Uh, sure.
[1:28:38] » David,
>> is that is that my queue?
[1:28:40] » Yeah.
>> Can you all hear me? Okay.
[1:28:43] » Yep.
>> Perfect. Uh well, good evening,
[1:28:47] commissioners. Uh my name is David Hicks
with the Carl Malone Group. Um I believe
[1:28:51] that a few of us have met before. U I
would just maybe speak to a couple of
[1:28:55] things that you've said so far. Um first
of all, about the trees, we're very open
[1:29:01] to whatever tree configuration uh that
you guys like best. If you want to have
[1:29:06] us break them up a little bit with some
different species or run them a little
[1:29:09] bit further down that property line, uh
we would be uh very amicable to that uh
[1:29:15] as an approval condition. Um as far as
the fence goes, um we would be uh happy
[1:29:23] to do a black fence. You are 100% right
about a black fence uh looking much
[1:29:28] better. We have some black fences in
some of our other locations um and they
[1:29:33] are way less noticeable than a
galvanized fence. So, we agree with you
[1:29:37] and that's a great idea uh that you had
for that. So, we would be very open to
[1:29:42] that. Um
as far as the um last graphic that you
[1:29:48] showed with the, you know, mountain
scheme on it, I like that. Love the feel
[1:29:52] of it. My only concern would be you can
see through that much more than you can
[1:29:58] see through uh the slats. I can
understand that the slats, you know,
[1:30:03] your concern that they're maybe not the
most aesthetic or whatnot. Um but I just
[1:30:09] would my concern is like I think
somebody mentioned is security. And so
[1:30:13] that's what that's what we're looking
for is uh is security in that fenced
[1:30:17] area that everybody can't see what's in
there. Um, but I I think as long as far
[1:30:23] as the that issue goes, we're open once
again as an approval condition to what
[1:30:29] y'all uh uh like or what you feel is
best. Um, maybe there's a combination of
[1:30:36] of something we could do there. Um, but
you know, our our main main focus is the
[1:30:43] security of that area cuz we're going to
have, you know, mult multiple millions
[1:30:48] of dollars worth of inventory
potentially in that area at depending on
[1:30:52] what time of year it is. So, um, one
other thing that I wanted to mention is,
[1:30:58] um, since the last meeting, there was a
couple of things that were concerns
[1:31:02] that, uh, that you all had. Um, one of
them was the trees.
[1:31:09] I'm sorry. Did I missed something?
[1:31:15] Okay. Uh, anyways, one of them was the
trees, which is why we made that change,
[1:31:20] uh, so that when you're coming down the
highway, you'd be able to see that. The
[1:31:23] other one was a snow storage concern.
And what we did on that is we actually
[1:31:27] added a gate uh on the back of that
fenced area so that we would uh be able
[1:31:34] to it would be able to accommodate the
snow storage a little bit better um to
[1:31:38] get the snow out of that fenced area. So
we'd have the option to bring the snow
[1:31:42] out the front or out the back of that
fenced area. I believe that was on the
[1:31:47] recommendation of uh the commission.
Anyhow, I kind of did a lot of talking
[1:31:52] there. If y'all have any questions for
me, I'm happy to answer them. But, uh,
[1:31:57] you know, we're we are happy to, uh,
make any adjustments that y'all see fit.
[1:32:06] » See back if we're missing that.
>> Yeah, David. I think not sure if that
[1:32:12] just got omitted from these plans or if
I'm not seeing this.
[1:32:17] » Yeah, these plans are from
July 8th. I'll hop over to the civil
[1:32:23] site plan. That'll show it real clear.
[1:32:31] Yeah, that C1 right there is the one.
[1:32:44] » Okay, there it is.
>> Yep.
[1:32:46] » Yeah. And then also with respect to the
question if anything could be visible
[1:32:51] from below. This is set back off the
property line. And not only that,
[1:32:57] there's, you know, at the moment,
nothing uh what's the what would that
[1:33:00] direction be west of there? There'd be
nothing west of there. And as Brian
[1:33:04] pointed out, you know, if we were to
develop this and build a actual building
[1:33:08] there, that could possibly change, but
obviously that would invol involve a
[1:33:12] whole another uh P&Z review at that
point. But this is set back off the
[1:33:18] property line to accommodate for that
snow storage and um also that ditch
[1:33:23] easement uh that runs behind that that
piece.
[1:33:48] » [clears throat]
[1:33:54] » And I'm sorry, quick question. What was
the species of uh pine that was being
[1:33:59] recommended?
>> Ponderosa pine.
[1:34:04] » Oh, yeah. Ponderosa.
We agree with you. That's a great tree.
[1:34:08] We'd be happy to mix those in.
[1:34:13] or have them all that. Whatever y'all
recommend.
[1:34:19] [clears throat and cough]
[1:34:39] Well, it's so with the we got maybe
resolve this slats
[1:34:51] because I'm like the one thing I get the
security side of it but then also it's
[1:34:54] like we want to see what's behind that's
not likeable to the eye
[1:35:01] through
so I don't know if I totally get the
[1:35:08] the being able to see through there, but
then also on the flip side of it, you
[1:35:13] can see through there and the marshall
drives by, you see somebody back mess
[1:35:16] around,
you know, you actually take some action
[1:35:20] versus if it's slanted up there, then
it's like somebody go back there, pretty
[1:35:24] easy to jump fence and do whatever they
want to do. So, it kind of goes both
[1:35:28] ways, I think, from the security side of
things.
[1:35:32] At least that's the way I would view it,
unless there's something missing there.
[1:35:40] If you all like that fabric material
that we could put on the front of that,
[1:35:43] we'd be open to that. No problem.
>> Well, the one thing with that picture
[1:35:48] that Brian showed you there, there is I
[clears throat] would not recommend the
[1:35:52] fabric because that's just one thing
that's going to deteriorate. You're
[1:35:55] going to have to replace periodically.
But if we wanted to break up the
[1:35:58] continuity of this, the fence itself
would be the because those that actually
[1:36:03] that that art that's attached to the
fence, it's metal.
[1:36:07] Um, so it's it's cut metal that's
attached to the fence. So it's going to
[1:36:11] be there that color
[clears throat]
[1:36:16] probably
associated with that, you know, artwork,
[1:36:20] so to speak.
[1:36:24] » So just to make sure I'm understanding,
are you saying like the little mountain
[1:36:27] graphic that's on there, that's actually
like a a metal piece that's maybe cut
[1:36:31] out on a table that then they put on the
fence and then the fabric is behind
[1:36:35] that? Yeah. Yeah. This is a I would
[clears throat] like to say I would not
[1:36:39] recommend the fabric. Yeah. In the
picture that's exactly right. The fabric
[1:36:42] is I think the fabric is on the inside
of the fence and then the the the
[1:36:48] mountaincape is on the the outside. Um
but I wouldn't recommend the fabric
[1:36:56] for this reason. They probably want
additional screening. But for for what
[1:37:01] we're dealing with,
it's just one more thing to go wrong.
[1:37:07] » Understood.
[1:37:10] » Um
but [clears throat] some type of a it's
[1:37:13] you know pretty pretty simple design but
also represent the um you know the
[1:37:19] surrounding hillside
topography
[1:37:23] so
>> yeah we could do that.
[1:37:28] What I've got down is a artistic gateway
feature.
[1:37:38] Um,
[1:37:41] we're good on.
So, one other thing, I'm not sure if
[1:37:46] this could be accommodated or not, but
it's
[1:37:50] Go ahead.
>> I suggest that we might be getting the
[1:37:53] cart ahead of the horse a little bit
here. Um,
[1:37:58] I am still
[1:38:03] somewhat uncomfortable with
I just
[1:38:10] So, we've got 160ish
[1:38:15] parking spaces on the existing facility.
We have an application for 60 more. So,
[1:38:22] that would bring it to 220ish.
And if that is what the applicant needs,
[1:38:29] then I'm really struggling with why
they didn't stripe their parking lot for
[1:38:37] the 227 spaces that were on the approved
plans for the
[1:38:44] » for the original facility. M
[clears throat] like
[1:38:49] why do we need to make the gateway to
the city be a parking lot to accommodate
[1:38:54] something that would have been
accommodated if it was built as approved
[1:39:05] » to me it just extends what feels like a
I don't want to name a particular city
[1:39:14] but It
it's taking what feels like a strip
[1:39:19] development that is not the
the character that I and most of the
[1:39:27] people that I talked to want Bellev to
be. And it's extending that parking lot
[1:39:32] strip commercial development feel, you
know, another lot to the north. And
[1:39:37] we're and at that point we're out of
room to
[1:39:43] have something else go in there to make
that not be the I mean what it does is
[1:39:49] it it
puts an endpoint on that northward
[1:39:54] development because nothing else is
going to go north of there. Um, and it
[1:39:59] just cements that that commercial strip
development as what is at the north end
[1:40:04] of town and makes that the gateway.
>> Um,
[1:40:10] and I don't like it. And I don't and I
really don't like that that it is being
[1:40:17] built as a necessity
because the applicant didn't
[1:40:24] follow through on building out the
facility that we're now trying to
[1:40:29] remediate
um based on what was approved.
[1:40:36] » Is it okay if I ask a question?
>> Sure. Yeah.
[1:40:42] What? I don't I don't know anything
about the facility current the current
[1:40:47] facility not being built as approved and
that we didn't build it as approved. So
[1:40:53] that that's affecting this. I think the
whole thing to my knowledge was built as
[1:40:57] it was approved.
So my understanding is the is the design
[1:41:02] review for the original um
for the dealership uh had 227
[1:41:11] uh striped parking spaces which was a
concession. Um you know by by code it
[1:41:19] should have had 360.
Um and so it was a concession that you
[1:41:24] guys said oh we don't need that much
parking. uh we'll be fine with 227. And
[1:41:29] so that was what was approved in the
design review process
[1:41:34] um for the for the dealership. And then
when it got built out, uh you currently,
[1:41:43] my understanding, I haven't gone and
counted them. My understanding is you've
[1:41:46] got 154 standard parking spaces,
um
[1:41:53] four handicapped accessible and six
trailer parking spaces.
[1:41:57] on site.
So you're well under half of what would
[1:42:03] normally be required by code and you are
coincidentally about 60 short of what
[1:42:09] was on your site plan
when you built the dealership.
[1:42:16] » [clears throat]
>> So, this is the first time that I've
[1:42:19] ever heard that what you just said that
that we asked said that we didn't need
[1:42:25] this many spots as we had planned and
that we put in less than we had planned.
[1:42:30] I have I haven't heard that. Maybe you
can speak to that, Cal. Um, but there
[1:42:35] was also some
um I believe there was some confusion
[1:42:41] with the parking calculations, not when
the dealership was built, but recently
[1:42:46] in some of the reports there was uh some
parking calculations that I believe were
[1:42:52] maybe not correct. So, I don't have the
exact information in front of me to tell
[1:42:57] you that that's not the case, but I have
not heard that before and I don't
[1:43:02] believe it's the case. But I would have
to maybe get some more information on
[1:43:05] that
[1:43:11] [clears throat]
>> because that's what you're referring to
[1:43:13] that
the approved building permit plan had
[1:43:19] » straight parking
>> all along here all through here all here
[1:43:24] down here and the
actual construction plan omitted
[1:43:33] everything along the new fence area,
converted a bunch of it to trailer
[1:43:37] parking.
>> Yep.
[1:43:39] » Did not include any.
>> Yep.
[1:43:42] » Okay.
>> Yeah. There's a lot of parking that's on
[1:43:44] your original site plan that is not on
the ground right now. And
[1:43:50] yeah, what you've got up, Brian, is a I
think a very uh
[1:43:56] clear picture of that.
So, I think maybe the confusion is for
[1:44:01] me then is what you're talking about is
mostly what's actually striped versus
[1:44:07] what's not striped because there's some
of that parking that is being used as
[1:44:12] parking and they are parking spaces. We
just opted not to actually stripe the
[1:44:18] spots. Is that maybe where some of that
difference is coming in?
[1:44:23] » Maybe a little bit, but not the majority
of it.
[1:44:30] Can you see Can you see Brian's spit
split screen here with the satellite and
[1:44:35] the and the
>> site plan?
[1:44:38] » Yes.
[1:44:41] So to the north of that storage
facility,
[1:44:45] there are a there are a bunch of striped
parking spaces on the site plan. And it
[1:44:52] doesn't look to me like those are being
used for vehicle parking
[1:44:58] » to the south of that.
>> And then you've got
[1:45:03] to the east of that storage area.
Um,
[1:45:12] there's a there's a bunch of right angle
vehicle parking on the site plan and
[1:45:18] on the ground there's a bunch of
[clears throat] a bunch of trailer
[1:45:23] parking.
And then at the south edge of the
[1:45:28] property, it looks like there's eightish
spots on this on the site plan that are
[1:45:35] not being used for vehicle parking.
Uh and then
[1:45:44] to the
Yeah, just
[1:45:48] all over the place, man. There's there
are spaces that are on the site plan as
[1:45:57] striped vehicle parking that are not
being used for striped vehicle parking
[1:46:01] that are being used for like inventory
storage and
[1:46:07] angled trailer parking and
just it was not the parking lot was not
[1:46:14] striped as as [clears throat] approved
and
[1:46:20] I I haven't gone through and counted
vehicles or counted spaces or counted
[1:46:26] vehicles that are that are not in
striped spaces, but it seems to me that
[1:46:33] that 160ish number, you know, that that
60 short of what was approved on the
[1:46:41] site plan
>> looks like about what you've got on the
[1:46:44] ground. And
And I mean,
[1:46:54] » so I can speak to a couple of those
things if that if that's okay.
[1:46:58] » Um, and I I I can see why you're saying
what you're saying, so I'm not I'm not
[1:47:02] trying to argue with you, but this
picture that is up on the screen is not
[1:47:07] 100% representative. This is right after
this was taken right after we paved that
[1:47:13] area. And so we had we hadn't even got
the containers moved yet and all the
[1:47:18] other inventory is not there. So when
you on that uh north side of the storage
[1:47:23] area that you're talking about um that
is now all moved into the storage area.
[1:47:30] Also we added an entire row of parking
that goes all the way across the front
[1:47:37] of that fence that is now on that
storage area. So that would be facing
[1:47:42] the um east. Yes, you are correct that
um a few of those spaces we turned into
[1:47:50] angled trailer parking which instead of
them being dual spots
[1:47:54] um they are now they're now one spot for
a truck and a trailer. So yes, I I see
[1:47:59] what you're saying there. But I g I
guess at the end of the day whether
[1:48:05] those spots are striped or not, we're
they're still being utilized
[1:48:11] um currently. And so we are still even
if I go and stripe those spots next
[1:48:19] week, it still doesn't create
necessarily more space for me because I
[1:48:23] got inventory sitting around taking up
some of those spaces. Um,
[1:48:29] and at the end of the day, I still need
more space. Even if they're striped, I
[1:48:34] still it's it's a matter not of the
spaces being striped, it's a matter of
[1:48:38] total space, period. So,
you know, that's the need for this this
[1:48:43] other lot. Um, so, you know, obviously
obviously to help park our employees as
[1:48:49] well. So, I I see what you're saying. I
don't I don't 100% agree. That's just,
[1:48:55] hey, we didn't build it as we were
supposed to have. I can see why you're
[1:48:58] saying that because there are some
things that are different than the plan.
[1:49:00] So, yes, I agree there. But, um, with
the inventory that we have and the
[1:49:07] employees that we have right now, yes,
we're all on that lot currently today.
[1:49:11] We are all on that lot, but we got 5 lbs
of stuff in a 10 or 2 lb bag, I think
[1:49:18] the saying, or something like that. 10
pounds of stuff in a 5B bag. How's that?
[1:49:23] Anyways, uh, yeah. So regardless of how
many spaces are striped, we still need
[1:49:29] more space uh overall and that's what
we're looking to do.
[1:49:41] One other thing, let me add to that.
There is another lot that we have that
[1:49:46] is on the north side of this what we're
proposing for this parking lot. So,
[1:49:52] there still is a space between this lot
and the airport property. It is correct
[1:49:58] that it is not technically in the city
of Belleview, but there is another lot
[1:50:03] there that will have some sort of
development on it. And so, this won't
[1:50:07] necessarily just be the absolute edge of
Belleview or edge of the development.
[1:50:12] Let's say that it is the edge of
Belleview, but it will not be the edge
[1:50:15] of the development um going to the
north. There will still be something
[1:50:20] else there at some point. Uh that will
be the edge of the development.
[1:50:26] It will It's not in the city, however.
It's in technically in the county. Maybe
[1:50:31] we can annex it. Who knows? [laughter]
[1:51:04] I see where you're at.
I definitely understand that cuz I feel
[1:51:10] like
[1:51:13] the the parking lot, you know, it's
going to be a book end whether you like
[1:51:18] it or not. It is.
And we're asking the citizens to make a
[1:51:23] concession
for a plan that wasn't implemented,
[1:51:29] right? What was what was approved, what
was required,
[1:51:33] and what wasn't implemented by the
business.
[1:51:38] Um, you know, looking at that aerial map
on the left, you can see a lot of
[1:51:45] a lot of the spaces that should be used
for parking are being used for equipment
[1:51:49] storage. And yet, you have this very
large fenced in storage yard
[1:51:56] that potentially, I mean, this is a
snapshot in time, but potentially
[1:52:01] doesn't have it's not being utilized.
[1:52:10] I can assure you it's chuck full right
now. [laughter]
[1:52:14] It's stacked.
[1:52:24] I just I'm going back to
that meeting.
[1:52:31] What was it three or four weeks ago
where we had a handful of public comment
[1:52:37] talking about
[1:52:41] the style of development there that is
you know
[1:52:48] to my memory there were there were at
least
[1:52:54] at least a few folks who stood up and
said you know
[1:53:00] that style of development belongs in
Twin Falls. It doesn't belong in Belio.
[1:53:04] Um you know the the
[1:53:10] all that asphalt
the the the style of the you know just
[1:53:16] the the style of the development is not
doesn't fit with the character that
[1:53:24] to my mind most Bellev residents want
Bellev to look like. And
[1:53:30] just extending more parking
is a continuation of that.
[1:53:42] A good point to uh mention this is a
public hearing and there might still be
[1:53:46] somebody online wishing to comment.
[1:53:54] » Is there [clears throat] any
iss Yeah.
[1:53:59] I'm guessing. Okay.
>> Hi guys. Uh Evan Stelma 111 Tendoy.
[1:54:06] Um this has been a very interesting
meeting. I did speak at the last one. Um
[1:54:13] I would love to have you guys think
about putting a fence. If you want to do
[1:54:18] this there, put a fence that looks like
Sawtooth Plumbings. It looks good.
[1:54:24] They've landscaped it well and it's not
awful for everybody else to look at.
[1:54:32] Obviously, I'd rather not have something
that looks like a parking lot. Um, your
[1:54:39] other
dealership building, you've got weeds
[1:54:44] all around it. It looks terrible right
now. If you guys
[1:54:48] brought your landscape guys in every
month or so to pull the weeds, go down
[1:54:54] the hill down Curtly, make it look nice.
We live here. We care about our town.
[1:55:00] Um, we're trying to be good neighbors to
you guys and we appreciate that you guys
[1:55:07] are considering doing the same. I think
we still have some trees coming um on
[1:55:13] the main dealership area and we haven't
seen those. Um wrap the trees around the
[1:55:21] back. It will make a difference. We have
a very cold climate here. Stuff doesn't
[1:55:25] grow fast. Don't put tiny little things
in that won't grow big and screen
[1:55:30] things. Um but please consider
doing nice looking fencing. I don't
[1:55:38] consider chain link parking lot and
storage areas with snow machine boxes
[1:55:44] um an attractive entrance to the town I
live in. I chose to live here. Um I was
[1:55:50] born and raised in this valley. I love
it here.
[1:55:54] But this is making it difficult for all
of us to be proud of our town when this
[1:55:59] is what you look at. Um you've got the
Maverick sign that is so bright it's
[1:56:05] appalling. Um, you guys did turn the
lights down on the motorsports
[1:56:11] dealership. I appreciate that. But
please just listen to what these guys
[1:56:16] are saying. Um, we want we want to have
you succeed here, but we also want to be
[1:56:23] proud of what's here. So, add to the
landscaping. Maple trees don't do well
[1:56:28] here. Listen to them as far as the
different evergreens. That's a good good
[1:56:34] choice. So, thanks so much for uh giving
me a chance to um air my opinions.
[1:56:43] » Thank you.
>> Thanks, Alex. [clears throat]
[1:56:47] » Uh anyone else?
[1:56:52] [clears throat]
[1:56:56] » Okay, we'll go and close public comment.
[1:57:02] [clears throat]
[1:57:06] » [sighs]
>> You know, I guess I I'll go back to, you
[1:57:09] know, I I said this multiple meetings
ago that, [clears throat]
[1:57:14] you know, we're
[1:57:18] the business model they were trying to
put into that is too big. And they they
[1:57:22] intentionally made a choice to make a
lot smaller and now we're kind of
[1:57:28] suffering because of that.
[1:57:33] But that's that's their choice and
that's where we are. And the one thing
[1:57:36] that I do wonder is terms of like like
our ability to deny
[1:57:44] um this application to have a
to not have this at all.
[1:57:58] So you are the sighting body on this. In
order to approve it organized, you must
[1:58:03] go through the uh standards of approval
for a conditional use permit and either
[1:58:08] find that it meets all of them or there
is some point that they are deficient
[1:58:14] and there's no conditionable method for
that to be
[1:58:20] helpful if I read through these and you
guys discuss one by one.
[1:58:24] [clears throat and cough]
170.
[1:58:27] » I didn't think that
[1:58:32] there.
[1:58:40] [clears throat]
[1:58:46] » Yeah, probably should start here.
>> Go ahead. Okay. A will in fact will in
[1:58:51] fact constitute a conditional use as
established for the zoning district.
[1:59:00] » Y will be harmonious with and in
accordance with the general objectives
[1:59:05] or with any specific objectives of the
comprehensive plan and this time.
[1:59:15] So that's one where I have an issue.
[1:59:47] Uh, chapter Five, land use goal one
objective one. Uh number five, just
[1:59:56] discourage strip commercial development.
[2:00:03] Uh number seven, ensure that new
development fits. I'm on page 179
[2:00:11] the packet. Uh, number seven, ensure
that new development fits in with
[2:00:17] Belleview's historic smalltown character
and maintain its quality of life.
[2:00:38] I would also add in the promo infill or
essentially taking away a viable
[2:00:45] lot
to create a parking lot.
[2:00:51] Uh we've [clears throat] got language
about gateway to the city also. Uh, I'm
[2:00:59] drawing a blank on where that was,
>> but
[2:01:21] Yeah. Uh, yep. 5.4 on page 178. Uh,
which have recognizable gateway
[2:01:29] entrances are needed to define city
limits and be reinforced by signage,
[2:01:34] beautifification, and mark changes in
the type, style, and intensity of land
[2:01:38] uses. And I mean to my mind going from
agriculture to
[2:01:47] parking for strip development that's not
the kind of marked change in the type
[2:01:51] style and intensity of land use that
we're looking for.
[2:02:01] » [clears throat]
[2:02:03] » So I don't I don't
disagree with you though and I'll
[2:02:07] challenge you on this and this is like
okay we're so we're going to put a
[2:02:15] business or a building or whatever what
is not strip development
[2:02:24] if you put anything up what's
>> [clears throat]
[2:02:28] » That's a fair question.
Uh,
[2:02:43] I mean, that's I know it's not a very
satisfying answer, but it's the truth. I
[2:02:47] don't I don't know what you know
[2:02:52] doesn't belong to the city so we don't
get to dictate what does go there. Um,
[2:03:00] and I wouldn't want to,
but
[2:03:04] I think it is within our purview to say,
you know, if something doesn't meet the
[2:03:14] the the
[2:03:18] goals laid out in the comprehensive
plan, I I think we do have
[2:03:24] a place to say, you I don't know. I
don't know what it is, but it's not
[2:03:29] this.
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't have an
[2:03:33] answer either,
>> but I do wonder. I mean,
[2:03:36] » I remember writing that in the
comprehensive plan, you know, and
[2:03:40] everybody I'm like, and you're all for
it, but then it's like, okay, as a
[2:03:45] strip, it's like an add strip mall when
you have multiple businesses on separate
[2:03:49] lots. Is that considered strip
development?
[2:03:53] You know, I don't know. We didn't. We
certainly never defined it. I mean,
[2:03:56] that's that's verbatim. What's the
confidence? So, it's like so is if we
[2:04:01] have somebody else brings us another
proposal and they have a building to
[2:04:08] sell whatever, is that not stripped?
Then,
[2:04:12] you know what I'm saying? It's it's kind
of an awkward situation. Oh,
[2:04:16] » chair,
>> chair, can I make a
[2:04:20] uh an observation here on these two
sections about strip development?
[2:04:25] » Uh, sure.
>> Um, both of these points say any
[2:04:30] reszoning of land outside the downtown
core for business
[2:04:36] must be carefully analyzed to avoid
strip development. So, these points are
[2:04:40] actually talking about reszonings
on these goals.
[2:04:46] It seems like to me
[2:05:01] » where are you seeing that at? I'm not
following you
[2:05:06] » whether it's the page 109 under chapter
5
[2:05:12] or page 178 under chapter 5 section 5.4.
That bullet point that speaks to strip
[2:05:21] development
does say any reszoning of land and then
[2:05:26] continues on to talk about strip
developments and those types of things.
[2:05:37] I think we may be looking at different
[2:05:43] » Yeah, I was talking about the downtown
core.
[2:05:48] » So, you were you were referencing page
178, right? The strip development on
[2:05:53] 178 of the packet.
>> Yeah, that's where I am as well.
[2:05:59] So, I'm on towards the bottom of the
page. We've got chapter 5, land use,
[2:06:06] section 5.4,
concerns.
[2:06:10] » One of the unique qualities of Belleview
is its visual appeal as a western
[2:06:13] mountain town. Critical concerns in
maintaining this asset are bullet point
[2:06:18] one, talking about undeveloped lands.
Bullet point two, recognizable gateway
[2:06:23] entrances are needed to define city
limits and be reinforced by signage,
[2:06:27] beautifification, and marks changes in
the type, style, and intensity of land
[2:06:31] uses.
>> Right.
[2:06:33] » The next bullet point, any reasoning of
land outside the damp time court for
[2:06:36] businesses
uh and light industrial uses must be
[2:06:40] carefully analyzed to avoid strip
development. Um, so that does reference
[2:06:47] resoning. But on the next page, we get
to chapter 5, land use goal one,
[2:06:54] objective one.
So this is not talking about reszoning.
[2:07:01] Foster a business climate that pri
prioritizes the retention of existing
[2:07:04] businesses to attract new independent
local businesses into the downtown
[2:07:09] commercial area. um and discourage drip
development
[2:07:15] and incur ensure that new development
fits in with Belle's historic small town
[2:07:19] character and maintain its quality of
life. Those are action items in chapter
[2:07:24] 5, land use goal one, objective one
that's not connected to resoning.
[2:07:30] » Gotcha. Is there like a definition
section for strict development?
[2:07:38] No, but I will say that there there's
been a lot of public comment over the
[2:07:44] last
couple months, more than a couple months
[2:07:49] that that
there's a there's a widespread community
[2:07:54] sentiment that uh that this
pair of buildings at the north end of
[2:08:02] town have a very strict development-like
feel. I've heard it referred to that
[2:08:08] » that way several times.
[2:08:15] [clears throat]
>> I did find within the
[2:08:20] I pulled up the contra comprehensive
plan the the full comprehensive plan
[2:08:24] document
and it does talk about
[2:08:29] strip malls specifically there.
um says avoid strip development, avoid
[2:08:37] strip commercial, the things that we
just read. And then it does say
[2:08:44] prevent strip mall look within
Belleview. speaking specifically towards
[2:08:48] national chain retail outlets and fast
food rep frauds.
[2:09:27] » [clears throat]
[2:09:35] » So where it talks about a signage of the
gateway to the city, is there a
[2:09:40] condition that could be put on that we
could provide some signage or something
[2:09:44] that would make that
um make that work.
[2:10:10] Yeah, I mean we're we're in a kind of a
tough position because we we we
[2:10:16] have approved our model coming in. By
the way, it didn't meet some of the
[2:10:20] specifications that we all envisioned,
but
[2:10:24] um we all thought the member of the
discussion building was going to look
[2:10:28] good. We were pleased with the mod.
There's a lot of mod building
[2:10:33] and uh compared to what they came in
with.
[2:10:37] Um and don't get me wrong, I'm not like
trying to argue for this. I'm just I
[2:10:42] also don't want to keep us from getting
in a pinch down the road too from
[2:10:48] something that
poor decision making.
[2:10:55] And so, um,
I I
[2:11:02] I just think we got to figure out a way
to, well, I guess when it comes when it
[2:11:06] comes to this and to answer, you know,
Cal's question, I think, you know, one
[2:11:11] thing that I had on my list is like we
we don't have an entrance. Welcome to
[2:11:18] Belleview entrance sign from the north.
Um, and but I was sitting here looking
[2:11:24] at the the this this particular owner
the lot line for this is it probably is
[2:11:30] not a good place for a local ability
because it's is going to be awkward and
[2:11:36] kind of janky with it needs to be on the
lot to the north to the county. I don't
[2:11:41] know if that's something that we can
address or not, but but to have
[2:11:46] something along that the you know the
southbound traffic say a nice line would
[2:11:52] be a way that you could mitigate that
um and provide
[2:12:01] um provide something that that we could
could utilize.
[2:12:07] you know and
if [clears throat] without that then
[2:12:11] it's probably you know maybe there's
other ways to do that with the city
[2:12:16] right or the ITV right away or whatever
maybe maybe not but it could be missed
[2:12:20] opportunity um if we I don't Brian if
you have thoughts on that terms of the
[2:12:26] you know building sign but then the ITD
has their rightway and whatever they're
[2:12:31] going to do with this the highway right
there is there a wiggle room to put
[2:12:35] something like that And
um may not have to answer that question
[2:12:40] right now. I won't put you on the spot,
but you see where I'm going with this.
[2:12:46] An opportunity if we
don't take that
[2:12:52] um to to mitigate that and to meet that
particular
[2:12:58] um
[2:13:06] I think that yeah, a way to resign would
be an appropriate condition of approval
[2:13:12] to potentially mitigate this
discrepancy between their required
[2:13:17] finding and what being proposed.
As far as doing it on-site or offsite, I
[2:13:24] would recommend not requiring offsite
improvements unless the applicant is
[2:13:29] available to it.
>> Yeah. But then one thing is if there's
[2:13:33] not room for it, then they're out of it.
[2:13:40] » Brian, can you do a Google search for
the the sign at Sie Botanical Gardens?
[2:13:52] I mean, it's got a it's got a really
nice landscape burm behind it that to my
[2:13:56] mind would provide the kind of visual
screening that we're that we're looking
[2:14:00] for. And it's a really attractive
um
[2:14:06] you know, the last thing I would want is
a is a brightly lit billboard that says
[2:14:11] welcome to Belleview. Yeah.
>> Uh
[2:14:18] » you don't want like a Las Vegas style
one with all the lights and
[2:14:21] » Oh yeah, we could do neon. [laughter]
>> I love it.
[2:14:28] That is one of the best signs I would
>> Yeah. Valley
[2:14:42] » I think that's an artifact of the photos
of the
[2:14:44] » That's what I'm saying.
[2:14:48] » Yeah, that's funny.
[2:14:54] garden. Um but
that would be something you know
[2:15:00] especially if we
you know if there was a
[2:15:06] so it's not just trees screening you
know I know typically we would probably
[2:15:13] discourage
like an earth and berm there but I think
[2:15:18] that might be a a situation where one
could be appropriate
[2:15:24] um you know provide you know, provide a
a backdrop for for a s, you know, for
[2:15:29] some some signage or or a welcome
feature like that. Um,
[2:15:37] I don't know that that's something I
could get on board with as
[2:15:42] um, you know, kind of dual purpose,
providing that that gateway to the
[2:15:47] community.
um providing some, you know, some more
[2:15:52] hard or solid visual screening from the
parking area coming into town from the
[2:15:57] north. You know, you'll still see it if
you look out your passenger side window
[2:16:02] driving into town, but to me, having
that, you know, having that windshield
[2:16:06] view as you're coming into town from the
north, that's a that's a pretty big
[2:16:10] deal.
And this is kind of our one chance to do
[2:16:14] it
>> and to provide some type of, you know, I
[2:16:17] don't want to mirror this, but to
provide some type of texture
[2:16:20] » to it instead of just like a billboard
sign or something or other, I think that
[2:16:24] would be um
and material. I mean, that's with
[2:16:29] something like that.
>> Yeah.
[2:16:31] » Even the Haley sign right there on Fox,
it's nicely done.
[2:16:37] » Yeah.
>> I prefer this.
[2:16:40] » Yeah. or something like that as well.
That'd be I would lean toward that more
[2:16:45] than I would lean toward.
[2:16:49] » I would agree.
>> I don't completely.
[2:16:59] » Yeah, it's it's going to be partially
hidden by trees there
[2:17:04] hopefully.
But yeah, that to me it just looks too
[2:17:16] something that that's not just one one
plate, you know, that has some backdrop
[2:17:22] to it. But
I would write that into a condition, but
[2:17:28] I think
generally speaking, I would recommend
[2:17:32] against you guys being the judges of
art.
[2:17:36] But you guys seem to have a lot of
opinions on this. It may be appropriate
[2:17:39] to request that they come up with some
concepts and bring them back to you guys
[2:17:43] for
>> So with that though with looking at the
[2:17:48] property line,
you know, I don't know if there if
[2:17:52] there's really room to
put much in there.
[2:17:59] » The snow storage makes that tough.
>> Yeah. Um
[2:18:05] cuz when I as I [clears throat] have
driven by
[2:18:10] » Yeah, they would.
>> It's uh the the location that I was
[2:18:16] thinking of was actually just just I
mean just a teeny bit north of where the
[2:18:21] actual entrance is to that,
you know, the current entrance off the
[2:18:26] main street, but not north of the
property, this property.
[2:18:30] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. drive there.
[2:18:33] » Could we
go?
[2:18:35] » Could we shift that? Could we shift that
spruce back a little bit and put it
[2:18:40] there between the sidewalk
and where that spruce is? Sorry, not
[2:18:46] that spruce. Out on the frontage.
Yes.
[2:18:51] Yep. Kind of in in that area between the
sidewalk and that spruce.
[2:18:57] And maybe we swap, we flip-flop so it
goes maple spruce so that it would be
[2:19:02] the maple kind of over the top of this
sign and then the spruce and alternate
[2:19:08] from there. Of course, maybe it's a
ponderosa pine. Now
[2:19:19] » I'm not sure if that's
how much room is that there.
[2:19:23] » Yeah. What's the depth of that little
island?
[2:19:27] Give me one second. I'll measure it real
quick.
[2:19:30] » What What's the width of that island? I
think this is the question.
[2:19:34] » Yeah. If you built anything up, would
you be
[2:19:37] » sightines blocking?
>> I I guess I had in my mind something
[2:19:44] substantial enough that if we put it in
that island, it's going to make sight
[2:19:48] lines from that that
uh curb cut off Main Street.
[2:19:57] problematic. Yeah.
>> So, the space between the sidewalk and
[2:20:00] that curb and gutter is 35 ft.
[2:20:05] It's a pretty good amount of space that
you know if you put that kind of on an
[2:20:09] angle
so that it's kind of more perpendicular
[2:20:15] to the driver's eyes as they're passing
by.
[2:20:21] Um, you could actually get a pretty
substantial, you know, BM sign deal in
[2:20:28] that space and still maintain a clear
sight triangle down the sidewalk
[2:20:33] clearing the sign.
[2:20:40] think I could
if we did something like that and kind
[2:20:45] of also rethink going back to our
intersections and setbacks and all that
[2:20:50] kind of stuff. Are we are we setting
everybody up for a failure here if we do
[2:20:55] something like that because of our a
vision triangle debacle?
[2:20:59] » Vision triangle.
>> So yeah, your sight triangle there would
[2:21:04] be fine. Um, I would just make sure that
the rightmost end of that sign, and we
[2:21:10] draw this all out to make sure that it
doesn't go into the side triangle, but
[2:21:13] the rightmost corner is the only thing
that would get close.
[2:21:21] And I believe this is a great swale. It
dips down below.
[2:21:27] » Yeah, that goes down. Yes. So, it could
even theoretically expand a little bit.
[2:22:02] You go Um, you go to Google Earth
because I'm not sure if you go on Google
[2:22:07] Maps you can measure or something. I'm
just curious like the width of that
[2:22:10] city.
We can estimate it too, but I just
[2:22:15] » city is like 10 or 12 feet wide
at the most. I think it's more like
[2:22:22] eight.
>> Yeah,
[2:22:24] » if I had to guess. It's hard to
>> get a great sense of it, but
[2:22:30] » yeah, most most street monument signs
that we've done or been a part of have
[2:22:37] kind of been in that 6 to 12t range
generally. Um, larger displays kind of
[2:22:45] get more in that like just shy of 20
usually.
[2:22:54] That might be a tough one to
[2:22:58] » I'll bet you that saw to one that one
looked more like a
[2:23:03] » It's big.
>> Somewhere between Yeah. like 18 20ish.
[2:23:10] » Yeah.
>> I bet that's 30.
[2:23:13] » Yeah. Right there.
I've seen landscape trucks parked in
[2:23:18] that area and
it's a good bit longer than a
[2:23:27] Oh, it's longer than that.
[2:23:31] » Oh, yeah.
>> I can't I see it.
[2:23:43] Yeah. So total end to end with all the
rocks on the sawtooth one that one's
[2:23:47] like 50 feet.
>> I know
[2:23:52] that [laughter] is that is a very large
one.
[2:23:55] » Yeah.
[2:24:01] » Yeah. That's the SI mechanical gardens.
Yeah.
[2:24:05] » Yeah. Yeah. And that's I guess that's
measuring from
[2:24:08] even the the rock at ground level all
the way over to the other rock at ground
[2:24:13] level. That's not where it starts
getting vertical and depth to it,
[2:24:18] » right?
>> That's kind of hard to pick out, but
[2:24:22] and that's kind of where where my mind
goes is, you know, something
[2:24:28] substantial. It doesn't have to be a,
you know, a sign that's 25 ft wide, but
[2:24:34] a feature that's got some some movement
and some substantial size to it. Um, you
[2:24:41] know, some some boulders placed in that
in that swale kind of off to each side
[2:24:46] of it can will really help. I you know,
we're getting again too far, I think,
[2:24:52] into the design aspect of it. Um, but I
guess that
[2:24:57] my vision for something that is, you
know, that's a gateway to the city, um,
[2:25:04] is something with some substance to it.
[2:25:11] Just throwing an idea out there. One
thing that I've seen in some other
[2:25:15] cities that we do business is uh they
have like a you know a big a big rock
[2:25:19] like a big boulder and have it all
engraved you know and then the in the
[2:25:23] letters are painted inside and it lasts
you know it it's not it it doesn't uh
[2:25:29] look like
>> crap after a few years. Something like
[2:25:33] that may be in order as long as you guys
like something like that.
[2:25:38] Feels like a memorial.
>> Yeah, maybe a flag pole or something
[2:25:43] next to it. Who knows? I mean, I think
we could do something cool.
[2:25:48] I'm being serious about the flag pole,
by the way.
[2:25:53] Well, I think the one thing though maybe
the question so we don't get too far
[2:25:56] into the the design at this time is to
go if there's enough room. We think
[2:26:02] there's enough room there to not be a
safety issue. they end up with something
[2:26:07] there then
[2:26:11] do the do the armchair [clears throat]
quarterback running you know they could
[2:26:16] bring us up and then
start that around
[2:26:24] do do we but of course that's 35 ft we
don't want to use the whole 30 or 35 ft
[2:26:28] we so
>> yeah you know there's a ton of design
[2:26:35] work that could happen there. But, you
know, you could make, you know, it could
[2:26:39] be a curved shape, so you get the the
substance, but you don't you're not
[2:26:42] locked into any one straight line
dimension. There's some there's a
[2:26:48] there's a lot of different ways to skin
that cap.
[2:26:54] » Yeah. And for reference, that line that
you have in front of you drawn right
[2:26:57] there is about 40 some odd feet long in
that orientation.
[2:27:06] more
[2:27:09] signage
that
[2:27:14] I just want to go back to making sure
from the safety aspect.
[2:27:19] » I mean,
just make sure that they're the ones
[2:27:23] designing it that they're a competent
engineer that can make sure that it's
[2:27:27] out of sight lines.
Okay.
[2:27:33] Yeah. And I guess one one last thing
before we stop that. Is is that the
[2:27:37] location
for that, you know, you're coming into
[2:27:42] that the
is that the spot we want to sign because
[2:27:46] it's, you know, you got you're going to
have Maverick right behind it. You have
[2:27:49] Maverick right behind it. So be in front
of that. Um, and maybe even there could
[2:27:55] be
some shrubbery
[2:28:00] that would help soften the maverick
sign.
[2:28:06] » How you get shrubbery that
softens the maverick sign but doesn't
[2:28:12] impede sight lines.
[2:28:16] » Those are kind of competing.
>> Yeah.
[2:28:18] » Goals.
You kind of have that with some of the,
[2:28:21] you know, pulling to Atinson's the
street boulevards.
[2:28:25] » The the worst one in town is the country
store.
[2:28:29] » Yeah.
>> Getting out of the country store on the
[2:28:31] main street is total
>> is tough.
[2:28:35] » Yeah.
>> When those trees are have foliage on
[2:28:38] them.
[2:28:42] » Yeah. Um
[clears throat] I would like it north of
[2:28:47] that. I would too if I had a magic wand.
>> Came in wants to, you know, maybe e over
[2:28:52] a little
>> piece to the city.
[2:28:56] » Is that something you would consider,
Ken?
[2:29:00] » I'm sorry. What was the question?
>> To put it on the the the lot to the
[2:29:04] north,
>> I'm assuming.
[2:29:06] » Well, I think that that is certainly
something that we would consider. The
[2:29:09] only I don't want to throw up a
roadblock, but the only thing I would be
[2:29:12] concerned about is what happens if we
sold that lot and we were no longer the
[2:29:18] owners of it. So, I think that there's a
few things there that we would need to
[2:29:22] talk about. But, absolutely. I mean, if
that's something that you guys like
[2:29:27] better. I mean, I like that spot inside
that island. I think that that's I I
[2:29:31] think that that's it's actually um very
visible when you're coming in the city.
[2:29:37] And who knows what could potentially go
on that northern lot in the future or
[2:29:42] who is going to own it. So I I think
that's maybe just something to consider.
[2:29:49] » We're not actively selling it just in
case you're wondering. But [laughter]
[2:29:53] » no, it's going to need a access and
maintenance easement or something to
[2:29:57] that effect.
>> Yeah.
[2:29:59] » Regardless of which lot it falls on.
>> Yeah. Well, then that's with the county
[2:30:07] and I don't know the county rags off the
top of my head as far as like signing
[2:30:11] and that kind of thing.
Sure, it's maybe possible, but who knows
[2:30:15] what stipulations they may. Um,
you know, I almost like to, you know, I
[2:30:23] want to take this into future meetings,
but also I almost want to like go out
[2:30:29] and almost have a field tour to to look
at that. And I'm serious about putting
[2:30:34] some type of a tree or something, even
if it's a ponderosa that grows up and
[2:30:39] you lose some of the stuff to soften
that maverick sign. I'd be all for and
[2:30:45] but I couldn't tell you where from right
here where to place that and the type of
[2:30:50] of tree or shrub or whatever that would
be.
[2:30:54] » Right. It's tricky with that drainage
well running through the middle of it.
[2:31:01] » Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we got to thread the
needle. I think it's possible,
[2:31:04] » but we [clears throat] got we got I
can't do it by sitting around.
[2:31:07] » When you say
stopping that, are you talking about the
[2:31:11] the sign with the gas prices on it or
are you talking about the the
[2:31:17] front of the store or are you talking
about the canopy?
[2:31:21] » Well, I was originally thinking about
the sun with the gas.
[2:31:26] Um
cuz I think
[2:31:34] is that on that's not on any image yet,
is it? The Maverick.
[2:31:40] [snorts]
Um,
[2:31:47] I would I would be warm to
[2:31:54] much warmer to this project if it did
incorporate some things like that that
[2:31:59] that um that kind of soften the the
bright commercial. [snorts]
[2:32:08] Lots of pavement
[2:32:12] you know 100,000 person city feel
[2:32:18] um
[2:32:21] or you know not 100 thou what you know
what I'm saying um [clears throat]
[2:32:27] » if we could incorporate a few things
into this plan that that soften that um
[2:32:33] that as the as the feeling you get
coming into Belleview from the north I
[2:32:37] would be I'd be much warmer to the
project overall.
[2:32:41] » You know, I think one thing that we
could
[2:32:45] consider requesting is a mockup,
>> you know. Some renderings from
[2:32:52] perspectives and
>> Yep.
[2:32:54] » Yep.
>> Yep. Because that would
[2:32:57] because you know, even if we all went
out there, it still is would have some
[2:33:01] renderings that we could all wrap our
head around. Mhm.
[2:33:04] » Um would be I