1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,880 That's it. Great. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:08,920 All right. Okay, well, maybe I I guess I'll I'll call to order and start the 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:14,080 meeting. Um first order is roll call and I'll start 4 00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:18,600 and then we can go around. John Tantum, I volunteered to be chair of this 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:22,480 committee, a Cove Road resident. Go ahead, Mr. Isaacson. Sitting in for 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:26,600 Larry Store. Keith Fagan, a 7 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:29,400 town resident. Uh Peter Mark, city council member. I'm going to excuse 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,200 myself and get a pen. This one doesn't work good. 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,200 Okay. 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,720 Julian Poolweiler with Stetson Engineers, uh design team for the Beach 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,600 Road stabilization project. Adrian Formaini, both with the city 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,760 project management team. Great. 13 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:50,640 Tony Boyd, public works director. Um 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:54,120 and uh the others I I can chime in that Robert's uh 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:58,360 excused himself from from being here. He wasn't able to make it, but he is 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:03,200 joining us on Zoom. So, yeah, that's city manager Robert Zadnik. 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Robert, Robert, can you hear us? Are you on audio? 18 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:10,320 Uh yeah, hi everyone. Can you hear me? Yes. 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,400 Yeah, can you can you hear us okay, Robert? 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Yes. Yeah, you're coming through loud and clear. Thanks. 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,120 Great. 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,800 And I'm Chris Berry, assistant engineer with the city of Belvedere in the public 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,800 works department. 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,480 Peter, were you out when when the 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,240 when the call came around to your your seat? 26 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:34,120 » You know I said it, Peter. Okay, thanks. Yeah, um 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:39,320 All right. Okay, well, the next item is the approval of the minutes from our 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:43,960 prior meeting on February 26th, uh which are in the packet here and were 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,160 distributed earlier. Are there any comments? 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:51,520 on those? Happy to make a motion to approve it. 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:56,520 I'll second that. In favor? I. 32 00:01:54,320 --> 00:02:02,000 Uh the minutes were approved from the February 26th meeting. 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:06,800 Um next is the the the matter at hand to 34 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:10,640 talk about the Beach Road stabilization project and the bids and reviewing the 35 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:13,840 bids and uh 36 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,640 discussing those and hopefully come out come up with a recommendation for the 37 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:21,120 city council. Great. So, maybe Tony, I'll let you take 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:24,840 it take over. Yep, thank you. Yeah, and um thank you everybody for for being 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,680 here once again um in your time. 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:33,880 And um this uh this meeting is a follow-up from 41 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:39,320 our last meeting which really introduced you all to the to the plans for the 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:44,040 project and uh the context for it. Um this meeting is to uh present the 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:49,400 selection process um 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:56,400 uh to you all and uh basically um uh request a recommendation uh that the 45 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:01,640 city council approve uh the the contract uh for the for the project and award the 46 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:06,400 contract uh to a contractor. Um and so, what I'll be doing is I'll walk 47 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:11,120 you through the selection process um and we are uh I think it's fairly 48 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:17,440 informal. We can, you know, discuss and ask questions as we go. And um yeah, 49 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,120 happy to fill you in on on any of the of the details. 50 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:28,292 All right. So, um so, to start with I'd like to clarify in 51 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:31,480 my memo um >> [clears throat] 52 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:36,120 » uh that because I didn't point this out in the memo. Um this contract is for the 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:40,760 sheet pile installation portion of the project, which is the main uh the sort 54 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:44,000 of the meat of the project. Uh there is another um 55 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:48,360 segment which it which has to do with the the private properties on Beach 56 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:54,400 Road, number 16 uh to number 28 Beach Road, um where there are gangways and 57 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:57,800 utilities on on the properties there that will need to be removed for the 58 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:01,280 installation of the pre of the of the sheet piles. 59 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:05,720 And that's a project in itself. Um and so, that will be a a separate contract. 60 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,760 Um And there there's a little bit of 61 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:13,680 possible confusion with with uh with the numbers that that amount was included in 62 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,680 the engineer's estimates um uh 63 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,959 you know, and and that's not really I I didn't really um clarify that or point 64 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:24,200 that out in the memo. Um 65 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:29,280 and yeah, we we can we can look at it more closely uh but uh exhibit C, the 66 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:32,560 engineer's estimate will will show uh 67 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:37,400 that uh where that that line was included in the total cost of of the 68 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:40,160 estimate versus the cost of this proposal. 69 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Um and 70 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:49,040 yeah, if need be um I could also it'll take me a few minutes, but at some 71 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,920 point I did uh pull up uh some of these documents 72 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,840 onto the screen if it's helpful. And Robert might find that 73 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:02,760 that useful. Um okay. Um so, the RFP was posted on 74 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:08,120 February 20th. There was a lot of interest um it seemed 75 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:13,160 to us with uh 58 downloads of uh of the RFP materials. Um 76 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:16,840 uh it gives some indication, I guess, of of uh all the contractors out there and 77 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,640 and who are kind of perusing the sites and 78 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,560 uh interested to see what what projects are 79 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:24,240 going on. Um 80 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,800 that was followed by a mandatory site meeting uh with with prospective 81 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,080 contractors. Um so, any contractor who wanted to 82 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,480 submit a bid would have to be at the at the site meeting. 83 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:40,160 Uh there were 14 companies represented there. 84 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:45,800 Um and the deadline for questions following that was March 9th. Um we 85 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:52,080 received four questions in writing and responded to in in in an addendum. 86 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:56,920 Um there were two adden- addenda issued. Uh the first addendum was um 87 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:01,280 a change to the insurance requirements in the contract. 88 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:06,240 Um so, that uh yeah, basically uh provided uh the details of that. 89 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:10,800 Um and then addendum two um uh provided details on the on the uh 90 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:14,880 pre-bid meeting, um the questions received, um the responses 91 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:19,320 to those questions, and also a clarification of of some of the uh 92 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:23,800 contractor's responsibilities uh during during the project um 93 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:29,640 related to workflow, their workflow, and coordination. 94 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:34,320 The deadline was March the 19th um and that was uh attended by four 95 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:39,880 different contractors' representatives uh as well as a union representative 96 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:44,640 representative. Um A union from local three. Operators. It's not 97 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:50,360 uncommon that they show up knowing about this type of projects. Yeah, thank you. 98 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,240 Thanks, I wouldn't have known that. Um 99 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:58,320 and then uh yeah, so and it was fairly 100 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:03,280 straightforward. Each uh each envelope each sealed envelope was opened and the 101 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:07,760 bids uh bid amount was was read out loud. Um 102 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:12,480 uh people people, you know, took notes and uh and then asked some questions. Um 103 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,520 most of the questions, I think all the questions were 104 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:20,120 » So, they they they opened up their bids amongst all the other competitors? 105 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,920 Yeah, so basically we received the bids um at a table we had a little table 106 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,480 stationed next to the door there. As they came in, uh they they uh handed in 107 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:31,880 their bid um and then um at the designated time 108 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:37,920 which was 11:30 on that day, um we declared that uh bids were now uh 109 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:41,600 closed and then uh and then we stood up at a at a table and opened each bid 110 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:46,920 individually, pulled out the the documents, and read out the number to 111 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:50,200 the to the uh the contractors. Is that is that a requirement? So, is that a 112 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,080 requirement? It is the It's a law. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to speak over you. 113 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,400 Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was that is the procedure for 114 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,000 uh public opening. And it sort of takes away your ability to negotiate with 115 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:05,680 anybody. It does and the law it's it's it's uh 116 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:08,800 it's a legal requirement for for public agencies. Um 117 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,800 and and the the possibility to negotiate um 118 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:19,520 is actually extremely limited. I mean, the the the amount on the bid uh if the 119 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,440 city is to accept a bid, um 120 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:27,320 it has to justify not accepting the lowest bid, basically. Um if it's not 121 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:31,840 going to accept the the lowest bid, um there there needs to be a reason in, you 122 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:36,320 know, um uh that the city would would do that. I 123 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,360 mean, it's very seldom that that a city would want to not [clears throat] accept 124 00:08:37,719 --> 00:08:41,800 the lowest bid. But but is there is there I'm sorry to meet you. 125 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,320 » No, no. Just just 126 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:50,480 couple questions. So, you went from 58 downloads, I guess, I know it's a it's a 127 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:54,520 gross number um to 14 visits and four 128 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:58,360 made meeting the deadline. Did anybody come in after the deadline? Um which I 129 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,040 know you you need to exclude, but I'm saying anybody come in just for 130 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,120 information. >> No, no, nobody came in after the 131 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,800 deadline. >> normal or why would you think you'd go 132 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:10,600 from 58 to 14? I I understand a 58 to 14, but 14 to four seems a larger jump 133 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:14,240 than I would expect. I'll go over the bats and then I'll and then I'll let 134 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,360 I'll let you Adrian chime in. He's definitely um 135 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:22,480 kind of written a few more of these rodeos than I have. Um but 136 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:27,920 um I think uh one of the main reasons was there was this a specific piece of 137 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:34,000 equipment that was um specified in the RFP and and uh and that was this uh 138 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:38,800 silent piler, this guy can machine. And there are very few uh if 139 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:42,720 if any, I think, in Northern California um 140 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:45,480 uh companies that that provide that. Um so, 141 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:49,800 you know, that was another thing is that all of them had the same subcontractor 142 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,280 uh to drive these piles in. Um 143 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:56,320 and I think yeah, some of the comments at the pre-bid meeting um 144 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,240 related to that. They they sort of said, well, I mean, if we're all going to have 145 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,640 the same prime I mean, if we're all going to have the same sub, 146 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,840 um what difference does it make to you 147 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:08,520 guys? And so, I think a lot of people felt that they wouldn't have a 148 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:14,280 competitive chance. So, you know, so didn't didn't want to waste their time. 149 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:19,280 Um but yeah, Adrian Yeah. So, uh you know, it was certainly a great turnout 150 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:23,880 at the pre-bid versus who pulled plans. And who pulled plans could be a host of 151 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:27,200 individuals that may actually not even have any 152 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:31,280 ultimate goal of bidding on the project. However, they are very interested 153 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:35,120 whether it be a vendor. Uh there are several 154 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:40,400 uh communication uh companies that will track projects 155 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:45,000 and then, you know, post items. Um so, you usually have a very broad spectrum 156 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:48,880 of individuals that will pull plans and and anyone's allowed to do it. So, then 157 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:53,720 you get down to the pre-bid meeting, which is certainly a more uh fine-tuned 158 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:59,360 group of individuals that still may consist of additional 159 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:04,120 individuals outside of who will be bidding on the project. Myself signed in 160 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:07,200 on the pre-bid sheet because I was an attendee. 161 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:11,480 Um my project manager Kyle, you know, Tony. So, there were 162 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:15,240 others at the pre-bid that necessarily weren't going to be bidding on the 163 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:20,160 project including subcontractors to potential primes. 164 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:25,000 So, one of the critical uh subcontractors and at that point we 165 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:30,400 weren't sure if there was a uh a prime or a subcontracting component 166 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:34,640 to the uh company that does retain several of these Dyken silent pilers. 167 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,600 And they were, you know, there with three individuals, you know, that are 168 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,280 all from Blue Iron. So, that's how your list kind of kind of kind of 169 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:47,640 that we ended up with? Is that a successful process or would we wish we'd 170 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:52,480 had more or what what how do we how do you evaluate that? Exactly. Yes. So, 171 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:58,120 good question. So, because of the uh selective equipment for installation, 172 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:02,760 these contractors all knew that Blue Iron was going to be 173 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:06,040 involved with this contract. You can only make the case Blue Iron's you know, 174 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:10,360 selected who they who they want to work with. Correct. So, we do know based on 175 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,880 the bid results that Blue Iron so provided numbers to several contractors 176 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:18,880 and that's great. And all of them were very close on that one particular bid 177 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,600 item when we analyzed the results. >> But they're not though. But they're not 178 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,720 though. I mean, unless it's embedded in these lines. I mean, there's there's 179 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,760 there's quite a big of variance in the, you know, uh line five, six, seven, and 180 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,720 eight. You would think you would think if it's 181 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,080 the same contractor between the same The contractor is this the opinion of cost 182 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,080 for the project? I'm just looking at the 183 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,600 line-by-line breakdown. Must be in the bid 184 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:42,120 Okay. Yeah, so that's a computer too. I'm sure it's in a more detailed 185 00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:45,520 tabulation. But but you know, where you would where you would expect to see 186 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:49,560 So, I'm I'm my bad. I'm sorry. I didn't have a thought that was on the one Where 187 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,720 you would expect to see some consistency among them all 188 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,520 would be alignment A, alignment A, alignment B, alignment C, you know, 189 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:59,080 where this where where the the structural steel um sheet piles are 190 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,839 being driven. You know, basically line five, six, and seven. 191 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,080 Um and part of I guess 192 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,040 Yeah. I don't know what I'm seeing right now, but 193 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:14,360 To jump in, I'm I I I 100% see what you're saying and it is a bit of a head 194 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:18,480 head scratcher about why Valentine uh uh 195 00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:24,320 have 2.3 million whereas the other contractors I think are more 196 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:30,360 closely um converged at, you know, between 1.6 197 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,320 and and 1.8 million. Quick question. Are uh are 198 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,280 are we we're in at this point we're not even discussing Valentine's numbers or 199 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,760 do you want to discuss their I mean, they're they're they're way high. No, 200 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,240 no, no, I know. I know. I know. I'm I'm I mean, well, just just with four on the 201 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:48,200 page and I you may want to just mention why you knocked out Corcus. 202 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,880 Yes. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I was coming to that. Yeah. 203 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,280 Yeah, so they knocked out Corcus. They didn't 204 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,080 they didn't really follow the process. Yeah, we can we can look at the 205 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,320 administrative oversight by Corcus and they just forgot to sign something or 206 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,640 was it like a substantial they didn't 207 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:07,440 complete something important? Uh it was an it was I think 208 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:13,440 I if it was me, if it was my company, I'd be very frustrated uh because um 209 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:16,360 it is it's it's a very minor detail when you're filling out a form, 210 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:22,600 but in in an RFP um it's it's significant 211 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:26,800 um and uh it basically 212 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,720 um The frustration for us too is that um we 213 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:35,320 we were aware that Corcus had downloaded those those addenda 214 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:39,240 um and so when they when they filled in their 215 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,560 form um saying that they had not they they did not acknowledge uh the the 216 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:47,240 addenda basically. I mean, but but but in the city's defense and our in our 217 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,520 broader legal defense of this is also that when and if 218 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,600 they're they're not acknowledging those two addenda which we we we can't verify 219 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,079 that it's in their their their budget data and and they'll perform the work 220 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,520 according to the specs that you laid out. Exactly. What's your real change? 221 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,360 Which is why you have to sort of eliminate that. 222 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:08,320 There's no way to have them acknowledge the addenda after the fact. It was too 223 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:13,079 late at that point after the envelopes have been opened. Is that right? It you 224 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:16,200 know, it's It would have been basically, yeah. I 225 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:20,360 think that would have resulted in protest from from the other bidders um 226 00:15:19,079 --> 00:15:24,520 basically that they didn't follow procedures and then were being given an 227 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:27,720 allowance for you know, to to correct items in their 228 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,600 in their bid. Um 229 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:34,440 Yeah. And you know, I mean, I think ultimately um 230 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:38,839 you know, the city attorney weighed in on it and and uh 231 00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:43,120 yeah, it it was quite clear that uh this was the only option. 232 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:47,280 Yeah. Um Luckily for us the the next the next 233 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:52,000 bidder was was a very close in price and they, you know, for the total. 234 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:56,240 I mean, but on those my question was a lot of those install sheet pile. Yeah, 235 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,920 you go from even if you take out Valentine, you 236 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:07,000 know, there's a six there's a $300,000 swing on line five. 237 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:10,480 Between between between Thompson and and Gordon Gordon Mhm. And and Thompson 238 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,240 being the third. That's why they were in third place. No, no, no, but I'm saying 239 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,640 but if if if the same subcontractor is providing the service, maybe there's 240 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:22,360 more detail that that there that I'm not seeing. Because they are carrying costs 241 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:27,160 of unforeseen to for covering a sub. So, guaranteed Thompson is a more local 242 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:32,880 contractor from Nevada and they may or may not have worked with um um Blue Iron 243 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:37,520 as much, but I do know that both Corcus and Gordon Ball both 244 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:42,440 work with them quite often and that is probably that is a reflection in Gordon 245 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:47,480 Ball's number is that they have a very good understanding and operation for 246 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:51,959 their subcontractor which is carrying, you know, 75% of this this project 247 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:57,040 weight here. Um that is the way I see it. 248 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:00,880 What a really good question. Um what is the ultimate nature of our agreement 249 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:07,040 with this contractor? Is it a guaranteed max? What factors you you mentioned that 250 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:10,439 in your review of um uh 251 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:13,240 references that one of the one of the things you got back about Gordon Ball in 252 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,120 particular was that they were able to finish the project on time and on 253 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,120 budget. 254 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,640 What what are the opportunities or what are 255 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,679 the negative opportunities to be off budget for us? I mean, 256 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:28,760 if is this a guaranteed max? Is this a fixed price? What happens 257 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,400 um certainly I understand client driven change orders or or or material driven 258 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:36,560 change orders, but is that what can can can can drive this into an overage 259 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,960 situation? Yes. And and it's really and and Adrian definitely please do chime in 260 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,760 here, but um 261 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:46,800 my understanding is that uh they based their 262 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,960 their their estimates of of costs or their their price 263 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:57,040 on the If if other you know, if they get out to the sites 264 00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,920 and and um you know, they start digging and there's something something else 265 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:05,760 down there than other than loose sand and rock, for example, um that causes 266 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:11,400 delays and you know, changes um then then costs can 267 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,400 change. Yeah. 268 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:18,440 Yeah. Most of them Yeah, and then some of the units are are are stated you have 269 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:23,760 you do a square foot for the sheet pile, but primarily they are either single 270 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:28,520 units or total and or, you know, lump sum. So, each the only the square 271 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,240 footage is on the the sheet pile, which is total. 272 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:35,320 And then it's a furnish and install, so it's a completed system. I mean, Jason 273 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,400 repair that was completed a few years ago. Were there many change orders 274 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:45,880 associated with that project? Not one. And did it come in on budget? Uh well, 275 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:50,800 that one was a little There was there it was not the same development of that 276 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,720 project based on the situation because it was more of a observation that was 277 00:18:53,200 --> 00:19:01,440 made with both and Miller Pacific during and Stetson during the H and H study in 278 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:04,720 2019 for the shoreline resiliency for both shoreline and 279 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:09,720 Santa Paula and Beach. Uh so, that was when it was prompted and 280 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:13,880 the wall was showing uh significant signs of failure. So, that was what 281 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:19,000 prompted that project. So, it certainly was in line with pricing 282 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:22,960 um and there was no additional inflated costs due to a 283 00:19:20,679 --> 00:19:26,960 you know, expedited, you know, time frame. Blue Iron came in well under 284 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:32,679 because they had a unique perspective on the installation of sheet with uh 285 00:19:29,679 --> 00:19:32,679 um just cutting edge tech 286 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:38,840 you know, so they were we were able to complete the 287 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:43,440 project faster than other companies. So And can you confirm my understanding 288 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:48,120 as well that it's it it would go both ways as well. So, if less materials are 289 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:53,520 used, for example, um than than anticipated calculated the 290 00:19:50,679 --> 00:19:57,760 square footage, um then then uh that's what's that is what it's 291 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,880 built to the city as well as well invoiced. Yeah, I mean they're they're 292 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,360 you know, this is what they were expecting and they're going to they're 293 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:09,760 going to procure sheets like this is the first thing that has to happen. So 294 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,480 » Right. So as far as the sheets go those that would be a single kind of bulk 295 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,360 order I guess. >> Oh yeah, and they're going to jump on 296 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,960 that as soon as possible just because of the lead time and getting into a roll 297 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:25,480 because these sheets very well may not be on the brand yet. Okay. So it's yes 298 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:29,920 specific to sheets yeah. Okay. I just know that I mean you know with 299 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,800 paving for example if um you know for whatever reason it turns 300 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:38,240 out that it's a few tons less than than expected. Absolutely 301 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:42,080 and that's what's important just for keeping on track with you know that all 302 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,080 those all those things. But yeah we'll certainly do that. And the good thing 303 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:48,320 that we have going for us is the knowledge base of both Gordon and 304 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:53,160 Blue Iron is that they're straightforward contracting that very 305 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:58,560 they work well together. So the mere fact that they are a well-oiled machine 306 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:03,240 is going to have you know it's going to just you know 307 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:08,520 assist tremendously versus you know other subs that may or may not have that 308 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:13,320 well of a communication yeah you know so. And then also yeah just to just to 309 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:18,040 add if there is if there are complications 310 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:23,040 you know it's it's uh the city you know through its through 311 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,640 its engineer engineering team would have to 312 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,720 um um 313 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:32,240 uh basically approve any any changes like 314 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:36,240 that any changes to the to the scope. So cost would be a part of that 315 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:41,760 decision. So if you know if there's a if there's a huge change 316 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:45,880 it because of you know some some unforeseen circumstance that that 317 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,320 results in a big change in cost somewhere 318 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:52,200 that would be a decision that the city would weigh 319 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:56,640 for in terms of the project as a whole. What we do know is that we had very 320 00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:01,400 little issues whatsoever with a significant section of Beach Road 321 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:07,679 several years ago. We saw very very bland questions from contractors. 322 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,080 The bids came in without carrying costs of which we had no idea how this is 323 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:15,280 going to go down. So that was those were all really good 324 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:20,000 signs of a well-designed bid package from both the technical side as well as 325 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:24,880 the opinion of cost. It was it was very it was right in line with what we you 326 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:28,840 know we were hoping to see. We're just very excited we didn't see this as a 327 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:33,760 huge The lowest the lowest bid it's Gordon Ball not Norman Ball right. I 328 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:37,720 think in your memo you Yeah right sorry I for some reason I kept So I think a 329 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,240 little bit of Herman Ball I don't know why it is wrong. See you the experience 330 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:46,600 they have but we have not worked with Gordon Ball before as a city. They are a 331 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,920 large contractor so there's a very good chance that they wouldn't have probably 332 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:56,000 been worked on any They are typically a huge large scale commercial contractor 333 00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:00,240 doing anything else than that. But I I do know of that nature cuz they 334 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,400 they do a lot of municipal work. >> Okay. I don't know but I don't know the 335 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,400 company is that are public company or a privately held company we have I'm not 336 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,880 sure and or if it's a member owned we have to you know have to look into look 337 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:16,320 into that. One of them There was there was a level of analysis required for 338 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,800 for this review. But this is this is They they 339 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,960 are a large company that does many projects that's not name I've never 340 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:28,679 heard of. No yeah. um Yeah it's I have noted them either. 341 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,080 um I don't know if they're nationwide I 342 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,040 don't know if they're that >> No they're not. I do know that they do a 343 00:23:32,679 --> 00:23:41,600 lot of work with PG&E. They do a lot of public utility work so they are they 344 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:45,480 understand the public process. And I do know again that they work with Blue Iron 345 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:50,360 quite a bit with projects. And a lot of times Gordon Ball is in prime for PG&E 346 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:56,679 projects where Blue Iron is their sub. Yeah their their references were um 347 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:59,920 uh were I thought I thought very good that the projects that they that they 348 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:05,040 highlighted were very similar to this. 349 00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:10,080 They all involved installing sheet pile in in locations a lot of locations with 350 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:14,720 with water river banks and and boat launches and and these kind of 351 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:18,240 situations and and one of the one of the project managers that I spoke 352 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,760 to from I think it was the Santa Clara Santa Clara 353 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,120 water district said that they 354 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:28,320 um that they were also in very close 355 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:31,960 proximity to homes and that they uh you know they performed everything 356 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,760 that they needed to with you know vibration monitoring and and that kind 357 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:40,400 of equipment so they they're definitely familiar with with this this type of 358 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,800 work. They were they were nearby projects here in the area in Northern 359 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,480 California. >> Yes yes yeah. 360 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:59,967 Yeah. Right well so okay 361 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:05,120 where did I where was I? um >> [clears throat] 362 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,120 » Addenda yeah okay. So 363 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:11,440 The addenda were were required to be acknowledged and and one contractor 364 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,400 didn't as we know um 365 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,240 Is there and I understand that the strict nature 366 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,320 of the bid process 367 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,320 uh 368 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,840 We're not obligated to take anything just just thing you guys have to get 369 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,880 right? Correct. >> Right we can say cuz you're 370 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 you're above what our expected cost will be we're not obligated to take anything 371 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,760 on >> Yes. Yeah. Um it's still subject to city 372 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:40,480 approval but you I mean there's there's there's a 373 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:46,480 number of line items you know you know 10 12 and 15 for example where 374 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:50,320 they are higher than everybody else. Uh and I know that just the it's the 375 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,679 discrepancies that you guys have the uniqueness of that individual 376 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:57,400 contracting approach and their their sensitivity to that particular line item 377 00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,080 I can imagine. But you can't go back to them and say you know we'd like to we'd 378 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,720 like these three items to be reconsidered or looked at is does does 379 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,840 this municipal process allow for that or not? 380 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:12,640 No um yeah unfortunately not because of the 381 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:16,640 because of the RFP process um you know everybody 382 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:22,200 uh everybody provide you know has the same uses the same parameters for their 383 00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:24,560 for their costing and and the the final price 384 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,760 um can't be changed before the before the 385 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:33,000 contract is awarded. After the contract is awarded 386 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:37,360 then there can be some negotiation with with the contractor. The contractor is 387 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,120 awarded at that price but change orders can 388 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:46,240 be generated by the city that change the 389 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,160 scope of work. So that's often in negotiation. 390 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,120 » be I mean I'm just saying cuz we have to separate decision by the city as to 391 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:59,679 appropriate more money for this right. So that's not insignificant. um 392 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:03,480 uh ask so it would be against this process and perhaps municipal law I 393 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,640 don't know that you can't go to them and say you 394 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:12,080 were the low bidder after we excluded one you know full 395 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,400 transparency you're the low bidder but you're still above our budget we 396 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,720 can't award the contract unless you were to reconsider these three line items 397 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:23,679 which you're you're you're 10% above the competitors. Would you consider to do 398 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:28,240 so? That's not you can't do that? We do you Yes so 399 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,679 and and just so you know that we have discussed 400 00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:34,480 that angle because in a public contract 401 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:38,640 that's kind of where you go next. You look to VE or value engineer some of 402 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:45,080 your items and where you do not take away or 403 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:52,200 we don't want to adjust and or go back to the design team to say we need to 404 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:57,600 change the how we go about getting you know this design completed. It is maybe 405 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,520 a reduction of overall footage and we can't you know there's a very good 406 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,920 chance that the contractor is going to be willing to negotiate cuz they want 407 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,280 this project that's for certain. But if you 408 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:12,400 by your process you award the contract at this price what reason do they have 409 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:16,360 to negotiate It's not as easy as looking why are you well you're $80,000 more 410 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:20,000 than the competitor so why can't you do it for their cost? Because there are so 411 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:23,720 many different moving mechanics we don't know what the other contractor may or 412 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,480 may not have had or if they underbid that. 413 00:28:24,679 --> 00:28:28,400 But at this point with them we don't care. 414 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,400 Realistically we don't care. I mean if if if if we're if we're now one to one 415 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,320 with these folks and we want to award it then we don't do 416 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,159 it. I I get where you're going with this. I 417 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,520 I'm just I'm just saying that. We haven't added obstacle here that 418 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,679 we've got to get this money from this from the city and ultimately from our 419 00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:47,880 residents. And that's not a 420 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,440 you know something the city council is going to 421 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:54,440 love to be vote on and be comfortable with and the the way you propose to do 422 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,080 it is to put up other projects. You know other lanes other maintenance 423 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,080 projects other other capital improvements 424 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:03,560 or finding it in the this this this broader budget whether it's contingency 425 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,120 or things like this which probably possible but 426 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,040 depending on what you find out there. Yeah 427 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,000 yeah no for sure. 300,000 for Belvedere's is is a big 428 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,919 » Well let's let's let's shelve that aspect over for now cuz if and when we 429 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,400 go there there's other things to talk about certainly. Um 430 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:24,560 I would just say that it's a it's a competitive public bidding process and 431 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,760 so you've provided all the parameters in the contract documents and these 432 00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:32,320 contractors have put their best foot forward so to speak. This is this is 433 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:36,800 what they're proposing to do and I would say you're not really one to one with 434 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,320 anybody until the contract is awarded. But they also know your estimate going 435 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,480 in. I mean it's it's it's not it's not a 436 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,720 it's a coming from the private you know construction world that's just lunacy 437 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,680 lunacy to me. But 438 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,120 Well I get it. If you if you if you're attempting to negotiate with one 439 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,880 contractor before awarding a contract, all the other ones say, "Well, how come 440 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,960 you didn't come to us? We We could We could do it, too." And it just, you 441 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,440 know, it could sort of unravel the whole process. I get it. I get it. 442 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,760 Yeah, and I I mean, to your point, you lose all your leverage if if you've 443 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,320 already signed a contract with them. Um but I think I mean, in my in my 444 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:18,920 experience, and and maybe you you guys can chime in on this, um 445 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:22,280 you know, contractors are generally uh willing to talk. You know, they they're 446 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,040 um that 447 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,520 if you say, you know, "By the way, you know, we We've got everything signed, 448 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,880 but um 449 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:35,480 this is this uh you know, finances are very tight for us, and we would like to 450 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,960 find ways to to reduce the costs. Um we we may want to reduce the scope 451 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:43,280 somewhere. Um but we did notice in your in your uh bid 452 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,960 that you know, these were much higher than than other people's, and Okay. are 453 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,640 you able to, you know, you know, share with us what the you Cuz we can always 454 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,560 say to them, "So, we're not going to either uh 455 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:58,920 Ball, you reduce by this amount. And and we'll award it to you, otherwise we will 456 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,120 award it to nobody, and we will we will we won't go forward, and we'll do 457 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:06,360 another RFP, and we'll just we'll rebid the whole thing, and let let 458 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:09,880 them it's a little bit of a Put that on the table then. If they say 459 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,400 they won't, then we just put the RFP out again, and start the process again. I 460 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,400 don't think you can Well, well, I don't think you can do that. Well, why not? 461 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,320 Why Why What What Well, look, it's public I mean, I'm not a I'm not a I'm 462 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,200 not a contractor. It changes the scope. It changes the scope. I mean, obviously, 463 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,200 or the timing. No, no, because because basically, if if if if if we choose not 464 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,080 to do this now, realistically at this point in time, even with the same scope 465 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:33,160 in a rebid process, or modify this slightly, we missed the '26 window. 466 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,720 Right. If you miss the '26 window, it's not going to get any less expensive 467 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,680 knowing, you know, that >> that, for sure. And the re so the the 468 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:45,120 re-solicitation process, what we've done is certainly has a a cost that isn't 469 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,320 going to necessarily, you know, be able to be recouped as well in a lot of the 470 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,640 public, you know, process has, you know, there's has to be, you know, completed 471 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,240 again. But but if we don't have the money Yeah, no, I I they might say, 472 00:31:54,480 --> 00:32:00,600 "Okay, well, we'll we'll help you with that." So, I mean 473 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,960 they might say, "Okay." And that's why I know that, you know, 474 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:07,040 again, internally within you know, with James, I'll try to remember who else was 475 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:12,800 on that call, but Stetson, we talked about at least areas identified that we 476 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:16,480 can discuss, um and it was confident We don't have specifics, you know, but 477 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:19,480 there were certainly some areas uh to look at that we started to discuss. You 478 00:32:18,679 --> 00:32:23,120 know, one of them would be, you know, just uh 479 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,360 essentially I I think again, though in accordance 480 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:31,640 with the public contracting, you you can't begin these negotiations until 481 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,760 after a contract is awarded to to one of these. And so, I think that's probably 482 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:39,160 what the city is looking at. You You either have to make the decision to 483 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,840 award a contract Could we go to all of them and say, "This is This is our 484 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,400 budget. Would you like to Uh I think that that that sort of involves 485 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,480 reopening up the bidding process. I don't I can't I think once it's closed, 486 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,160 you can't reopen it. You would be looking at a rebid. 487 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,880 The issue with the timing is that there's an in-water work window, June 488 00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:01,520 through October. And so, to start the process over means 489 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:05,880 we wouldn't have enough time to issue a rebid, open it all up, and receive bids 490 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:09,480 in order to construct this year. So, re-bidding the project does mean you're 491 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,440 you're you're looking at next year, 2027. 492 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,080 Let's be realistic. Um 493 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:23,840 how confident are we that with the ability to start this project? 494 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:27,640 First question. Second question is um what I would be afraid would happen 495 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,920 is that there would be a delay, there would be a uh uh 496 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,040 a backlog of this particular equipment or something like that, and the 497 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,760 contractor gets started under this price, and says we have to finish it 498 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,440 next year, and here's the here's the cost to do so. 499 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,520 Well, I think they would be under contract to um 500 00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:47,040 uh you know, to to complete it by October uh 15th, I think is what the 501 00:33:45,679 --> 00:33:51,320 contract says. But just like but just like finding a a a you know, Right. 502 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:55,000 immovable boulder under the ground, there's a there's a there's a delay with 503 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:58,040 Blue Hill Stetson. I apologize. Blue Iron. Blue Iron. That That can't deliver 504 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,440 it. It's out of their control, and they're they're they're delayed a month, 505 00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:06,560 and they and they That's I don't for I mean, anything's possible, but I'm um 506 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:10,919 they're they're they have agreed to perform this project by a certain date, 507 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:16,480 and if not, there are liquidated damages daily that occur if they are not 508 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:19,440 complete by that time frame. Do we Do we think we'll get this done in 509 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,320 this time frame? I mean, can it be They need to go, yeah. 510 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:28,240 Permit I mean, we're you know, there's Um there are there are a few factors um 511 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:32,840 that that are outstanding. Um Yeah. What Like what? So, first of all, 512 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:39,679 uh permitting. Uh we're waiting for a BCDC permit. Um 513 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:45,000 and they are in a review sort of stage. Um they have a commission meeting where 514 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:51,200 it needs to be approved. Um and which I believe it is April 29th, I think, 19th 515 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:56,760 or 29th, so it can only be after that. Um 516 00:34:52,520 --> 00:35:02,720 uh PG&E need to complete some uh some work in on Beach Road to modify their uh 517 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,920 their lines, their um utility lines, main lines through there. 518 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,000 » Before we get going. Yes. Yeah. Given what we've heard from 519 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:15,600 PG&E, is that is that likely? Uh they uh we we ask them We We meet 520 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:19,680 with them about every 2 weeks uh to get progress and and update uh 521 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:24,040 updates from them. Um they 522 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:28,960 assure us that um that that it's that it's 523 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:33,160 doable to do before before June. Um but we have no control over that or or 524 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:39,240 over their their work. So, if these dependencies um if if Gordon and 525 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:42,480 Company, Gordon Ball, can't get started to comfortably make the window 526 00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:45,320 this contract's void then, right? We're not, you know, cuz obviously, the prices 527 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,880 probably wouldn't be held for the next year. 528 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:54,920 Well, I think there's probably room to negotiate, and and if they would like to 529 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:59,680 keep the contract for next year um you know, they may they may be some uh some 530 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,000 way to um you know, to 531 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,960 to keep them on board um with some kind of uh 532 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:11,040 you know, adjustment in price, you know, related to inflation or something. There 533 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,240 There is some flexibility built into the way this is structured. There's a 534 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:18,600 There's a The in-water work window is a 5-month period, June through October, 535 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:23,000 but the actual construction period is only 65 days. And so, even if they don't 536 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,359 necessarily have to start on June 1st, I mean, that can slide backwards, and 537 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,040 there would there would still be room for them to complete this project. And 538 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,960 in theory, the the out-of-water work can continue outside that window. That's 539 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,920 correct. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Um 540 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:40,920 And so, you know, that's that's the reason we did try to put this 541 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:46,520 out to bid early, to get the bids early, to have a contractor under contract 542 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:50,120 early so that these these scheduling and um 543 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:54,080 the the coordination between the city, Hadley, PG&E, this can all kind of be 544 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,510 worked out over the next several months until June, and when when the 545 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:02,240 construction would actually occur. Mhm. >> [clears throat] 546 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:06,920 » Yeah. Um The other The other factor is uh 547 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:10,960 easements with uh temporary construction easements with the property owners on on 548 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:15,240 Beach Road, because uh the work that would need to take place 549 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,400 on their property um for this project to to go ahead. I mean, the seawall 550 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:22,840 actually enters their property at uh you know, 551 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,800 at at their property lines. Um so, it's a couple of feet in from the 552 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,080 property line, so the the work and the structures would would all be on their 553 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,880 on their land. Um 554 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:38,040 and we've met we've met with them um a few times, uh described the project, 555 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:41,440 and we've sent over the uh the easement agreements. Um 556 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:46,520 So, at this point, we're waiting for them to 557 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,520 um review those. Uh 558 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:53,320 And we're we're ready to go for the for the April meeting for them uh to to have 559 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:57,240 those easements um approved by City Council. Um 560 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,200 And yeah, but but we do have to wait for their their signatures, basically, on 561 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,560 their side. How many property owners are we talking 562 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:09,440 about again? Uh three property owners. Um Yeah. Um 563 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:14,880 And one of them has indicated that um he's is absolutely willing. Um he's just 564 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:20,240 out of the country right now. Um so, he's uh seems seems like he's ready to 565 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:24,800 sign as soon as he gets back. Uh the other two 566 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:28,359 uh are new uh new owners of of the property. And um 567 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,840 I think it seems like they're wanting to review the the language more carefully, 568 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:36,800 and um Was it a It's three properties, but two owners, 569 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,160 right? Cuz there's Yeah. Yes. 570 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:43,200 » Hadley owns one building, and the Spruce Group owns the other two. Yes, yeah. And 571 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:47,760 those other two are are owned, I think, on paper by two different LLCs, but it's 572 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,640 the same people. Okay, so that's okay. Yeah. 573 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,320 Yeah. So, from a financial perspective, I'm 574 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:59,840 looking at this overall project budget relative to 575 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:04,080 appropriations funding at the top. Um we're looking at that 3.475 576 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:11,480 line of which includes two $280,000 or so, 577 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:15,160 that's going to a separate contractor to do the utility work. 578 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:19,720 Right? So, that's where we get the 300 So, that the the we have a $315,000 579 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:23,960 variance on that line if we take this this this bid from Gordon and Ball, 580 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:27,920 right? Uh yeah, it's it's 581 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:33,120 uh without knowing it, we don't have the exact number for the contracts uh of the 582 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:36,320 other amounts. I would assume the 279 that the way you got your 315 was the 583 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:41,120 279 um plus the 35 over 584 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:45,440 this number. Correct, yeah. With a with a little bit of Yeah, yeah. flexibility 585 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:50,880 to in case that 279 is over. >> So, I'm just writing 315 in parentheses 586 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:56,520 next to the 3475, which means Right. on this page we're 315 over budget on that 587 00:39:53,240 --> 00:40:00,920 particular line. And you've discussed this with Helga and her and 588 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:06,040 your recommendations with Robert as well is to handle this either within this 589 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:10,720 $4.6 million total project expenditures 590 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,120 budget, finding it somewhere, whether it's coming out of your hide 591 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,360 I mean from a project manager perspective or somewhere along this line 592 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:21,080 of our mass remediation, somewhere somewhere through here you think you 593 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:24,480 might be able to find some money. That that's option one, right? 594 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,800 Just confirming that's what that means. >> Yeah. And option two is in the broader 595 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:32,560 public works budget. Um capital improvement projects, whether 596 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,760 it's paving or whether it's a retaining wall or whether it's a lane improvement 597 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,960 or something like that, finding that money in that over the next couple 598 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:43,960 years. Yeah, and and and there are two components to that, 599 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,760 too. So, there are existing CIP funds that 600 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,000 that that overlap with 601 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:53,880 with with some of the work in this project. So, paving for example, there's 602 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:58,440 a we have a we have a CIP fund for paving. 603 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:02,920 And that that could cover the cost of the the paving restoration 604 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,320 in instead of using this this account for that for for those 605 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,320 costs. >> Use that account. 606 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,320 » Yeah, exactly. I get it. Um 607 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,760 Yeah, exactly. And the sidewalk, yeah, exactly. 608 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:22,120 And and we have it in we have not embedded the contingency on this budget. 609 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:25,680 Um Well, with that 610 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,960 so so with that over 611 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,320 I'm just saying on paper on paper right now we're talking about that one line 612 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:40,000 item having a a negative variance. 613 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:44,160 But that 383 arguably still exists if we if we know we have 4.6 in our in our in 614 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,480 our fund at this point. >> Yes, right. Yes. So, so yeah, 615 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,960 sorry I I I took me a minute there, but yeah, 616 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,840 basically that would restore that that contingency amount. 617 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,080 » Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, 618 00:41:55,240 --> 00:42:00,520 however we decide, you may want to work with Helga. I would 619 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:05,520 suggest if this is to be recommended to the city council, I wouldn't go in with 620 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:09,040 this to $315,000 over tier. I would I would I would front it by 621 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:14,600 saying exactly what you've talked about before, that we're going to approach 622 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:18,800 this if we award this contract with diligent approach to value engineer to 623 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,920 to line item look at things to to recognize this is over budget and see 624 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:25,520 where we can get some some some potential savings out of this contract. 625 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,720 May yield nothing, but but that's an approach and we certainly should do 626 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:33,400 that. I would also try to identify specifically where you think this money 627 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:36,640 can come from. Meaning if you if you if you have known expenditures that you 628 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,880 think are going to be less than what you have up here anyway, 629 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,440 for example, if you know that you know, the 630 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,520 the environmental mitigation costs are not 631 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,960 $100,000, but they're going to be $80,000 much like we had with the repair 632 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,640 over there on Beach Road. You know, you that came in less than we thought we 633 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:57,640 were going to commit. So, I'm not saying we take that money, but I'm saying if 634 00:42:55,160 --> 00:43:03,480 you know already where we are, I identify it. You could you could 635 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:08,600 probably say of that we know we've got $35,000 in 636 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:16,480 city planning paving sorry, sidewalks for the next 2026 2027 we have 637 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:20,120 $45,000 in in road paving for the 2026 and 2027 budget that we can apply to 638 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:24,680 this. And our assessment is that that won't 639 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:27,720 damage our overall value of our infrastructure around the 640 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,000 city. So, we can apply that those small amounts of those larger budgets. We can 641 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:34,840 also apply $200,000 of contingency to that and 642 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,960 that's where we think we can make up this money and still and still retain 643 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,120 the 4.630. Right. 644 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,800 » Yeah, exactly. You need to present it in a fashion like that. Right. Yeah, and 645 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:48,640 that's that's that is definitely what's what we had planned was you know, be 646 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:52,400 able to be specific about you know, about how you know, how this is 647 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:57,600 possible. And and there would be council approval 648 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,880 for for some of those changes as well. Well, they'll have 649 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,880 comments and they'll and they'll probably stress you know, we really want 650 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,760 you to push the value engineering and and really you know, sharpen your pencil 651 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,480 on the scope, you know, once you have the contract selected to keep within the 652 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:14,920 the appropriate public bidding process so that we can make sure we we make this 653 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:18,800 project as as tight and and not only timely, but also it does our our our 654 00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:21,760 base minimum needs for the for the for the for the money we're spending so we 655 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:27,080 get as much value as we possibly can. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 656 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:30,680 Yeah, I yeah, I I hear you and I think um 657 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:33,880 I we all feel that way. We definitely I know I I you know, and and and I 658 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:39,480 definitely know Robert does and everybody does. 659 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:44,480 Yeah, I mean it's it's um it's we we all want a want a project that's 660 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:49,040 delivered on time and under budget. You know, some of this this 661 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,840 law that we have to comply with 662 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:56,800 is is a little cumbersome and frustrating, 663 00:44:54,560 --> 00:45:00,600 but you know, from from the time that we start meeting with the with the 664 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:05,840 contractor, there will definitely be you know, a lot 665 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:11,760 of emphasis on on um keeping costs you know, within budget. 666 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,720 Um and if I mean you know, I I to be fair, I think I think the 667 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:20,080 contractors probably get that from from everybody that they all the cities that 668 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:23,440 they work with. Um But yeah, and I mean you know, some of the costs, you know, 669 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:26,720 and I can I can point to some in on here that's um 670 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:32,120 we anticipate not not having to pay for example, 671 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,359 environmental mitigation costs. BCDC 672 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:40,480 uh may ask us to you know, mitigate for 673 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:44,280 much more than than we are already. Um but it seems like they're not 674 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,200 um in in our discussions with them so far, 675 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,440 they haven't said that they that they will that they will and they've accepted 676 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:55,680 our submission with with the mitigation that 677 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:59,000 we've proposed. Um So, uh you know, for example there, there's 678 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:04,480 potential for that full 100,000 to be available to be to be moved into another 679 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:08,040 sort of road. Um Yeah. Um 680 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,960 Yeah, and then you know, land surveying and mapping for 681 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:17,720 example, that's another item that's we haven't we haven't had to Yeah, I you 682 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:22,200 know, I I I Yeah. You understand me. Just as you prepare it, sharpen your 683 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:26,880 pencil in because you you know, come in solution oriented to the council. 684 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:30,120 » Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, appreciate that. 685 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:37,640 Are you guys probably I mean you've sat down with them. You've you've 686 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:41,280 you've you've met with them. Are you comfortable with them being a partner in 687 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,200 in if not that it it doesn't sound like it's a big job for them, but it's a big 688 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,440 job for us. >> Yeah, no, we haven't actually met with 689 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:51,000 them. Yeah, we we wanted to but you know, I 690 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:56,200 actually I I spoke to Gordon Ball yesterday on the phone. Um 691 00:46:54,600 --> 00:47:01,520 And um but we had wanted to have this 692 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:06,120 meeting before we you know, provided any kind of official 693 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:10,840 communication to especially well, to the other contractors. Um and it's obviously 694 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:15,760 not going to be an easy phone call with Marcus, but um 695 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:18,760 yeah, that's So, Peter, I mean so if we make a recommendation, we're 696 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,000 making a recommendation knowing it's higher than the budget, although with 697 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:25,840 your mitigating recommendations, it may be lower, but it 698 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,720 sounds like it's it's worth discussing among the city council anyway. I mean 699 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:32,040 it's it's not so far out there. >> Absolutely. It's 700 00:47:30,359 --> 00:47:34,840 it's achievable potentially. Well, I mean 701 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:38,080 I mean I'm sure maybe Glenn you less so than us, but we're 702 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:42,200 we're just all reacting to that like public process is you know, I wouldn't 703 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,880 bid my house with that process. You know, 704 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:48,960 and it's just a it's just a just a it's sort of frustrating, but um 705 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:52,920 I think you need to present it that you know, this is the process and and it's 706 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:57,760 not it's not unusual to have our estimate be be a little bit short of the 707 00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:02,280 of of the in fact, the dynamic of the of the process to to to almost have that be 708 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:06,120 the the norm. But there is an opportunity 709 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:11,560 and I and I do believe it's worth the time because because we have a lot to do 710 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:14,560 between BCDC, PG&E and the easements um which would at the end of the day if 711 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:18,640 those if those don't come through, you know, this project's not going to go 712 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:22,200 ahead anyway. So, work aggressively with with the selected contractor to and it's 713 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:26,240 not like we have much of a choice. We have to choose 714 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:30,840 the non-eliminated low low bid, right? Right. Yeah, and and I think 715 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:33,520 if if we're choosing if we're choosing any, yeah. 716 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:38,200 Right, yeah, exactly. And and I I think that you know, if if if there was 717 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:43,120 another close bid for example, and and you know, there was a way to parse 718 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:46,040 through the qualifications, um then then we might be having a different 719 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,680 conversation, but I think you know, we have one apparently bidder. The the next 720 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,480 one is you know, 500,000. I mean you know, higher. I 721 00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:57,640 touched on this last meeting, too, and I know this will come up in the city 722 00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:03,280 council is and it's hard it's hard to weigh this 723 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:06,280 against known risk failure there, but is this is this something that you know, in 724 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,480 a year or two might be might be better pricing? 725 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:13,120 I'm not saying non-inflationary pricing, but just better pricing relative to the 726 00:49:11,359 --> 00:49:17,880 war, the supply chain issues, steel prices, gas petroleum prices. Good good 727 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:21,720 question. And currently so far, we actually 728 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:27,359 do a lot of supply chain analysis for our projects nationwide. 729 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:34,400 So, right now I do know that most of the sheet pile is coming from US. So, no 730 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:40,440 tariffs. So, that has not been impacted. Currently, the price of oil has not 731 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:44,000 impacted the sheet pile pricing. And that was something that, you know, once 732 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:47,960 we started to see what was happening in around and that's typically one of the 733 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:51,080 first triggers is the price of oil will just start to impact everything for 734 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:56,360 production and specifically sheet pile. So, at this 735 00:49:54,520 --> 00:50:02,280 point we don't foresee any changes and we're that close that it 736 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:05,600 would be not a major escalation. We may have more impacts if we push the project 737 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,000 and you know, without 738 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:14,240 you know, we're talking, you know, two years down the road we're probably Even 739 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:17,160 these folks these folks gave these bids, you know, these orders are good. The 740 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,320 price associations have been two or three weeks, right? Two three and a half 741 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,800 weeks. Um 742 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:26,120 would it could or would they come back and say there's a 10% premium based on 743 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:31,040 recent events? They I do know that there there is a 744 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:33,440 level of like they are entitled to that, but I don't know the specifics 745 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,480 personally to what that is. >> They could do that. They could come back 746 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:40,520 with a I'm not sure to the specifics. So, it all depends on I think on the 747 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:44,474 specifics of the contract. I'm just not fully aware they are, you know, entitled 748 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,520 to that. >> [clears throat] 749 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:51,360 » All the good scenario I mean as far as whether the contract 750 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:55,080 Yeah, yeah, two or three two or three as as as they go lower their price they 751 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:58,880 can ask us to raise the price. No, this is what the contract would be. Yeah. 752 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,640 And that's yeah, they're they're hanging their hat on that and knowing that okay, 753 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:06,560 well, you know, we have to we get a word once, you know, supposed 754 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:09,840 to that we you know, move specifically on the sheets that would be the big 755 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:13,520 thing. So, I mean if it's if it's if it's 756 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,600 legitimately now a cost of theirs big it's 757 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,080 choose not to take the contract, right? Or the or are they obligated to take 758 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,760 this contract? Well, they're I think yeah, they have 759 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,360 you Julian can speak to this as well. Again, are they obligated or that's 760 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,440 where they're yeah, that's where we have a bond. Mhm. A bid bond. 761 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,320 Yeah. >> [clears throat] 762 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:38,840 » Well, so this committee we were going to make a recommendation. It sounds like 763 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:42,680 the staff's recommendation is to to recommend city council to accept the bid 764 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:46,720 of Gordon Ball. 765 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:51,520 Um are we ready to decide on that with the committee? I don't know how we what 766 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:57,400 do we further questions or discussion? I would I would 767 00:51:54,120 --> 00:52:00,760 edit that a bit in the sense that it's not this committee's decision to go 768 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:04,440 ahead with the project. Right? From a from a broader risk 769 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:08,040 perspective from a broader financing perspective and from a broader um 770 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,440 operations perspective. But in in the event the council is clearly said to us 771 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:16,120 at a retreat hence the formation of this committee is um 772 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:19,840 we want this project to go forward. It should it go forward we want you to do 773 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:23,000 the proper due diligence and proper transparency to make sure that it's done 774 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,680 in a fair equitable manner and that you're getting as much value for the 775 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,920 process as possible. I think we should that's what we should 776 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,200 say is that given the process and given the understanding of the project and the 777 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,840 scope, this is the best contract for the job 778 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,920 and given the conditions that we talked about a second ago that you're going to 779 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:42,240 post awarding of the contract value engineer and look for look look for 780 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,960 potential values in the scope itself and um 781 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:48,120 here are ways we can potentially mitigate the cost in the existing 782 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:52,040 budgets or other budgets. Um that's the recommendation to choose Gordon Ball. 783 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,440 What is it the >> Yeah, I think it should be yeah. We're 784 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,760 not saying the project should go ahead with this. Ultimately, 785 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,360 you know, five people up there with public comment are going to decide 786 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:05,320 whether this is this this, you know, $4.6 million is something the city sees 787 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,720 a priority for the next, you know, year and a half to 788 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:15,760 to mitigate this risk. Yeah. Yeah. Um so it sounds like it it's um 789 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:21,000 on the understanding that there will be you know, aggressive um 790 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:25,800 uh what 791 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:30,120 I don't want to say reduction in cost I mean, you know, you know the people up 792 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:33,480 there myself and and what I mean they're going to say, you know, find a 793 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,520 place, you know, figure out the 315, right? You know, we'd rather not have 794 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,560 that. We'd rather we'd rather you, you know, get it out of the get it out of 795 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,840 the project one way or the other, you know, either sharpen your pencil from a 796 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:47,440 scope perspective, value engineer it or if you have to do exactly what what what 797 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:51,600 you guys talked about is is, you know, take a portion that that's responsible 798 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:55,520 of a paving and a sidewalk budget or other public works budgets and apply it 799 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,440 to this recognizing that you're you're you're you're stealing from Peter to pay 800 00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:03,120 Paul, but but be confident that you're you're doing that in a in a in a in a 801 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:06,440 balanced way that you're not jeopardizing Paul in that scenario. 802 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,880 They're going to want to see that information. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 803 00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:14,000 And and just just be confident that you thought about it so that if you're not 804 00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:17,960 able to lower the price that we're not we don't have a, you 805 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:20,720 know, day one $315,000 hit to this budget. You don't want to go 806 00:54:19,359 --> 00:54:24,560 through a project day one with that kind of, you know, budget deficit. 807 00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:27,280 » for sure. Um 808 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,280 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I >> help you with the staff report too. I 809 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,720 mean, like I'm don't stress about that. Between Robert, you and me and Helga we 810 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:38,760 can figure out how to Yeah. write that up. Yeah, that that 811 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:41,280 I really appreciate that. Um Yeah, and and I think I think part of 812 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:43,800 the um 813 00:54:42,359 --> 00:54:48,400 you know, one of the questions that that we'd have for you is is uh whether you 814 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:54,400 think, you know, where would be a more appropriate um place to to look for um 815 00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:58,880 savings uh and yeah, so you know, see our existing CIP funds 816 00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:03,040 versus scope of the projects and um yeah, these kind of Well, that's kind of 817 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:08,680 a contract. I mean, I mean, yes the the city can start with, you know, 818 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,720 what what what what um parks and lanes what what what broader 819 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,120 public works infrastructure are you doing that one you don't think you're 820 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:19,359 going to get to. Every year we don't get to projects, right? That happens all the 821 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,960 time. So so so so figure out which are the ones we don't 822 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:28,960 think we're going to get to and roll that into '27 '28 or '26 '27 or 823 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:33,440 even '26 '27 '27 '28 and that's that's a that's appropriate that potentially 824 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:36,560 could be used um for this recognizing you're just kicking a can down the road. 825 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:41,359 It's not a savings, but but it's a new public works budget next 826 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:44,600 year. Right. Yeah, exactly. And and if through your personal or a professional 827 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,640 assessment that 828 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,760 project can be deferred for that amount of time. I mean, that's got to be part 829 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:54,200 of it as well. Yes, exactly. And I think I actually 830 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:58,160 didn't get to that part of when I was talking about the CIPs and the and the 831 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:01,200 paving um yeah, the It's got to be based on some assessment 832 00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:04,720 Well, exactly. Yeah, I mean, because there are as you say 833 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:09,720 projects that roll over every year and there are also, you know, sort of 834 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:13,880 forecast funds for for for different projects that you 835 00:56:12,359 --> 00:56:18,520 know, won't be used for one reason or another and and can be pushed off to the 836 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:21,120 following year. Yeah. And we'll just see if there are any I 837 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,960 see Patrick has joined. If there are comments from Patrick or any I don't 838 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,880 know if there are any other Robert or Rob or Glenn or anyone else who might 839 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,160 not have a chance to speak about this and 840 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,720 Robert, Patrick, Glenn, any 841 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,720 Hey, >> [clears throat] 842 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,560 » I can go ahead and comment. I've just been listening to this 843 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:46,280 well, to the whole conversation, but on this last part we we did actually meet 844 00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:51,200 Tony, myself and Helga and take a look at our 20 our current budget in terms of 845 00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:55,720 rollover and then what we're looking at for next year in terms of projects that 846 00:56:53,920 --> 00:57:00,920 have funds assigned, but not necessarily a project earmarked for those funds. So, 847 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,320 I think there um you know, to Peter and and Tony to your point there is enough 848 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:07,920 flexibility in the next, you know, this current year and next year 849 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:12,680 we need to we we can find a way to pay for this 315. Um but but the broader 850 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:15,600 point is let's let's work really hard and try and bring the cost down, which 851 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,120 is of course what we'll present to city council. 852 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,359 Yeah, and so and this is just Robbie, you've 853 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,640 just reminded me of another thing that's um 854 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:35,480 we would like to emphasize is that we have no plans to request more funds from 855 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,800 from reserves uh from general fund or critical 856 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:43,320 infrastructure reserves. Um the you know, all the all the cost 857 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:47,640 savings would come from existing and forecast funds and from the projects 858 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,720 itself. Yeah. 859 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:54,240 That's a bit that's that's sort of splitting hairs because it's 860 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,080 Well, it's just going to be it really comes 861 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,080 from the city >> all all the same funds. So, it's a 862 00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:02,680 matter of Right. >> whether it's 863 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:07,240 in an existing appropriation or not. Right. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. We 864 00:58:05,359 --> 00:58:11,160 can't print money. So, it's it's at the end of the day it's coming from 865 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:14,800 something or we're not doing something. Oh, yeah, exactly. We're putting 866 00:58:12,359 --> 00:58:19,240 deferring something or yeah. But I I I think Robert said it exactly right and 867 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:21,520 Yeah. we can we can endeavor to to make that presentation and I'll and I'll 868 00:58:20,359 --> 00:58:25,359 certainly be part of that and help explain it to 869 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:29,359 the council as we go forward. Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah. 870 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:33,080 Okay, well, there's no further discussion. It seems like we should try 871 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:38,200 and bring our our committee's recommendation to our to a vote and 872 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:41,440 I think the movement is that the sub committee 873 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:44,080 will vote to um 874 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:49,040 I guess that the vote along with the the staff 875 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:53,600 has made the proper recommendation to the city council subject to the 876 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:58,359 adjustments and sort of financing and payment. Um 877 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,720 and I I I guess we're not quite endorsing that the the committee should 878 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,200 do this, but the committee supports the staff's recommendation. I think you said 879 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:09,440 it exactly right that that that we we support the recommendation of the of the 880 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:13,400 city staff that Gordon Ball is the is is the contractor 881 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:16,359 to select and that um 882 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,640 uh we encourage the the staff in the presentation to city council to to focus 883 00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:24,320 on you know, value engineering and and and 884 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:27,880 scope considerations and then identify where the 885 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:32,160 surplus $315,000 can come from within existing budgets. 886 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:35,880 I was um [clears throat] may I move into the vote on that? 887 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:40,800 Uh second that. I can second that. And all all in favor, 888 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:44,520 I I think it's just the three of us 889 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:48,360 Well, thank you. Yeah, and hopefully the the speaker caught all of the 890 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,920 caught all of the language in there. It's much better than the last one, I 891 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,560 know that. Um so, the microphone of the speaker, 892 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,240 yeah. And so, this may be the final time we'll 893 00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:01,760 have to meet, I guess maybe subject to Yeah, I don't know. 894 00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:07,560 Robert, remind me, do we think it makes sense to because because there's still 895 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:11,840 as you mentioned between BCDC, Genie, and the 896 01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:16,960 easements and the ultimate, you know, issues of permits and getting going. Uh 897 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:21,160 and and after all, this committee is designed to be the eyes and ears of 898 01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,960 the community just just just just to understand and, you know, either 899 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,720 anecdotally or or publicly make a comment that, you know, we've been aware 900 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:31,000 of what's going on. I'd suggest another in, you know, 901 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:34,000 if not one or two month at monthly intervals, just to check in where you 902 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,280 are in this process um so that the next month you presumably 903 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:41,880 would have received city council approval, you presumably would have 904 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:45,280 engaged in a contract with Gordon Ball, and have those initial discussions, and 905 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,480 have a tentative timeline for the project. That would be So, in about a 906 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,320 month's time from now That's what I think unless you think that's that's too 907 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:56,080 soon. Um 908 01:00:52,800 --> 01:01:01,360 No, I think I think there would be uh quite a few there'd be a few updates in 909 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:04,880 a month's time. Um and we can possibly, you know, change the date if 910 01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:08,560 if we need to if we're waiting on for some, you know, some 911 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:16,400 um decision or something. Robert, that's not surpassing the the the um 912 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:20,800 charter or design of this subcommittee? No, the the subcommittee is ad hoc. We 913 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:24,960 can't exist forever. Um but if we have a clear ending point which may align 914 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:29,400 you know, with the duration of the project and maybe at the close out uh 915 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:33,040 we'll have a final report that goes back to council. I think that's still the 916 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:36,880 scope. Yeah, I would agree. I think it'd be good to meet in another month. 917 01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,800 And actually maybe throughout the until the project is completed I absolutely We 918 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:44,600 discussed even having maybe one committee member available for whether 919 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:49,680 it be every construction meeting, but at least it's certainly up to speed whether 920 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,640 it's even also a follow-up after our construction meeting with the 921 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:56,520 contractor. I'm under the impression we'll be doing those weekly. Could be a 922 01:01:54,560 --> 01:02:00,440 bi-weekly check-in or something of that nature, but I think that it's very 923 01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:04,080 important to keep you guys in the loop throughout the process, too. You know, 924 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:07,040 we'll also have the have the contract happening, 925 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:13,200 it sounds like. So, you'll you'll bring this to council in April? 926 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:16,920 Yes. Yeah, that is the plan. Okay. Yeah. Um 927 01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:20,120 Yeah, so April 13th um and 928 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:26,200 yeah, unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town for a couple of weeks here, but 929 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:31,440 I have the the draft staff report and um you know, uh I think the finance the 930 01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:35,480 fiscal impact section is is the part we need to um 931 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:39,000 drill down into. Yeah. But uh 932 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:43,480 yeah, that and hopefully the construction easements 933 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:46,680 and maybe even a contract for the other portion of the work if that can all 934 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:51,440 happen in in in April, uh that would be There's no bid 935 01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:54,240 requirement for that? Is that the bid threshold or something? They would 936 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:58,400 typically be, yes, but there is in this case 937 01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:03,720 what's called a sole source justification 938 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:07,040 for for this for this contract because they have specialized 939 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:12,720 knowledge of that company. >> installed it. 940 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:12,720 Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 941 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:17,480 Yeah, and but that's, you know, these are all 942 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:21,040 updates that can can come at the next meeting for sure. Yeah. Okay, so we'll 943 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:25,680 plan on having a meeting probably late April after the city council meeting and 944 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:29,040 after progress has been made. Um and then we'll see 945 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:32,040 periodically after after that. Um would you like to pencil in a date now that we 946 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,360 can uh 947 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:40,600 or or uh Would you Yeah. prefer to to wait and 948 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:44,800 have a a poll maybe further down the line? If we if we sort of have a a 949 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:48,120 target date that we are, you know, can then confirm, I think um 950 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:53,760 All right, for me that always seems to work work better. 951 01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:57,680 So, maybe the week of the 27th? Okay. 952 01:03:55,880 --> 01:04:02,040 I'm gone that whole week. Are you there the week of the 20th? I'm 953 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,040 there the 20th. 954 01:04:02,359 --> 01:04:09,120 I I'm here the week of the 20th. When does city council act? Uh you said 955 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:13,720 it was the 13th. 13th, yeah. So, that's great. 956 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:17,400 So, that's a week after the city council meeting. But you might not have made 957 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,160 much progress with the contract. Yeah, it might be a little soon. Might shoot 958 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,520 for beginning of May, like the week of the 4th. Early May might be better. I'm 959 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:26,040 away the week of the 4th, so I can do the Monday or Tuesday. 960 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:31,440 And there's always, you know, we can there's no reason this for emailing 961 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:34,200 communication Personally, I could I could join a Zoom call. 962 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:37,400 » Or even a remote call if that's Yeah. Yeah, I know it works for you. I guess 963 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:41,160 it would do we if we're not voting on things necessarily, we don't have to all 964 01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,880 be present, correct? And I don't know what the or can we not have 965 01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,960 a meeting? It's not a Brown Act, I don't believe. Right, Robert? 966 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:53,800 That is correct. I don't believe this is a Brown Act. I don't believe 967 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:57,320 So, I mean If this same group is meeting Sorry, sorry. If this same group is 968 01:04:55,440 --> 01:05:00,480 meeting meeting the you know, the the core group that we 969 01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:04,080 have here today, then it is a Brown Act meeting. If it's just one person 970 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,560 assigned to meet with staff and what's not 971 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:11,320 Well, I I guess our question, Robert, is if 972 01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,760 we couldn't do this as a complete remote meeting. 973 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:20,760 Right, we need to have a quorum. Then then the majority a majority of the 974 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,400 members have to be in person. It worked out today because only one 975 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:28,840 person member of that sub of the subcommittee 976 01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:32,840 was was connected remotely. Do we want to shoot for say Wednesday 977 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:36,640 the 6th and if John can't I did do it remotely, but 978 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:41,760 I'm happy to do that remotely. Yeah, sure. Let's do that. Okay. Let's May the 979 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,760 6th. 980 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:54,600 2 2 p.m. Or sorry, 1 p.m. Yeah, if that time works for everyone. 981 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,600 Keep it consistent, I guess. 982 01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:01,000 Okay. All right, I just need to raise one 983 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:05,120 point. Yes, a design point. Yeah, uh go ahead. 984 01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:09,680 Yeah, that's okay. So, this is addressed to Stetson. 985 01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:13,760 Uh has to do with the height of the sheet piling. 986 01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:18,200 Larry's question to you apparently was misunderstood. 987 01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:20,880 He's asking why not maintain the level the 988 01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,000 » [clears throat] >> same as the existing sheet piling. 989 01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:29,080 Oh, the 2019 sheet piling, the top of it. 990 01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:35,000 Um >> Maintaining that height. It was It was 991 01:06:32,359 --> 01:06:41,760 primarily to save cost to to not have a higher sheets and more concrete backfill 992 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:47,520 and any any fill you put along the wall um requires a mitigation from the 993 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:52,960 jurisdiction. So, the wall where existing sheet piling 994 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:57,600 is the new sheet piling. It's It's approximately a foot lower. 995 01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:02,680 You're cutting it off. You're cutting off longer pieces anyway. 996 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:06,600 Maybe. I mean, it depends where they where they drive it to. Well, 997 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:10,520 I could drive it in and drive it in those. These aren't being driven. 998 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:15,240 These aren't being driven. Yeah, they're being pressed. There's no driving. 999 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:19,400 There there will be a It's that We did We did We did design it so there's a 1000 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:22,840 It's a It's a It'll be a gradual transition, so it's not going to be a an 1001 01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:27,000 abrupt, you know, 90° change. It's There is going to be a 1002 01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,680 transition over over a period of a horizontal 1003 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:33,359 distance, so >> And and the 2019 1004 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:37,120 repair has one as well. There's a a little slope down to two different 1005 01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:41,920 elevations. Um but to add 1006 01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:45,000 Julian to the reason for keep reasons to keep it keep it down, one is the 1007 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:49,520 permitting because permitting agencies um 1008 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:54,359 were happy to see that if that's the the all 1009 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:58,600 the pile would be kept below the the height of 1010 01:07:55,720 --> 01:08:02,080 where the sea sea lettuce reaches because that would be colonized much 1011 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:05,359 more quickly by sea lettuce and barnacles and so on. So, the lower the 1012 01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:10,840 better for them as far as habitat goes. 1013 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:15,040 Um then also aesthetics. Um right now from from the the homes along there or 1014 01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,880 from from the water um 1015 01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,000 it's it's less visible the the lower down it is. 1016 01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:25,600 Um so, that along with the embedding the 1017 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:29,680 uh the gravel into the top of the concrete along there um 1018 01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:33,719 you know, sort of the the permitting and and somewhat for aesthetics. So, we're 1019 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:38,200 talking about a foot. About a foot, yes. Yeah. Yeah. 1020 01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:42,880 Yeah, so I mean, and if you look at the the 2019 piles, there's a point on the 1021 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:47,359 piles where the barnacles stop. And then above that is just the the metal, you 1022 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:51,000 know. So, the idea here was that the this would be completely below that 1023 01:08:49,480 --> 01:08:55,839 that level of you know, habitat. Is Is there Is there 1024 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:59,680 inherently a you know, for the people viewing it from 1025 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,920 the water side or from the homes out there? Obviously, 1026 01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:05,359 um I mean, there is every every aesthetic 1027 01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:09,640 appeal to having it consistent as as much as consistent as as possible. Um 1028 01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:14,040 but you're saying there's there's there's no structural need for it cuz 1029 01:09:11,719 --> 01:09:17,560 that the note we got today clearly said that the the the structural requirements 1030 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:21,719 are really down below as opposed to above. No structural need for it. My my 1031 01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:25,000 biggest concern is is it would add additional mitigation measures and 1032 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:29,040 potentially hold up the BCDC permitting process. Um you guys need to sort of 1033 01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:33,040 give us a thumbs up and thumbs down this. I mean I see Larry's point that it 1034 01:09:30,759 --> 01:09:38,160 might look better if it was less It was all the same. jig jaggy. 1035 01:09:35,759 --> 01:09:42,319 But not enough to delay or or the project or to have a cost consideration 1036 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:45,640 or have you know, permitting issues with you 1037 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:48,920 know, the lead agency there. Right. Yeah. Or even if we can do it from an 1038 01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:53,319 environmental perspective whether whether ours are are 1039 01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:56,760 review covered that scope. But then again, we did we're we're we're we're 1040 01:09:55,320 --> 01:10:00,360 we're we're we're we're I'm leaning on the broader 1041 01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:03,080 review, right? So that matter that should matter. The environmental review 1042 01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:09,200 should matter, right? No, so that it wouldn't I don't think 1043 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:14,320 impact the EIR if it was you know, if if what you're talking about is is the 2019 1044 01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:20,160 sheet piles cuz I think that's probably what was kind of envisioned as 1045 01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:24,560 the sort of a comparable Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't know if Julian if you have 1046 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:28,320 any thoughts on that. Well, it would require going back to all the agencies. 1047 01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:32,440 It would be it would be more fill in the jurisdictional waters. So we'd have to 1048 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:36,000 restart or you know, renegotiate with all the agencies and there would be a 1049 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,200 cost increase. Yeah. 1050 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:44,520 Any answer? >> If I could chime in here too, from from 1051 01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:47,520 what we've talked about on this project from the beginning we we always 1052 01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:51,400 envisioned I think this aesthetic improvement that we're talking about 1053 01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:55,560 whether that be a cap or riprap or some other kind of concealment method 1054 01:10:53,880 --> 01:11:00,240 for hiding that you know, the steel sheet piles and the concrete. That would 1055 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:03,600 always be coming as kind of a phase two. And it's just a matter of when we can 1056 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:08,000 get that done in terms of you know, perhaps the larger project or when funds 1057 01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:11,880 are available. But you know, the structural [clears throat] component 1058 01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:15,600 holding up the wall and you know, keeping the cost down low was always our 1059 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,920 primary target at least in the short term. 1060 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:23,600 Okay, I'll tell Larry. Thank you. Yeah, he raised it last month also. And 1061 01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:27,800 I think Yeah. You should I don't know if Larry 1062 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:31,960 got that note you sent around today. Um Um I I think he uh 1063 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:35,840 with with the response from the state and I think he must have because I think 1064 01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:40,040 that's what what you might be referring to then for the 1065 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,720 as far as the the misunderstanding. I think that's maybe what what he was 1066 01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:48,400 referring He brought it up last week too last month too. So he he may or may not 1067 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:51,360 have it well. >> Right. Yeah, and I I mean I I 1068 01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:54,640 misunderstood it too actually cuz I thought he was talking about having a 1069 01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:57,520 higher up you know, 1070 01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:01,080 to support the wall. I think he just wanted it to match what was there. Yeah, 1071 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:04,800 I understand. And yes. And so 1072 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:09,040 Okay, I think we can adjourn unless there's any further comments. Thank you 1073 01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:11,800 so much. So many thanks. Thanks. Yeah, thank you all. Thank you all so much. 1074 01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,080 Thanks Robert. >> Thanks Robert. 1075 01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:18,640 What