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I now call to order the regular meeting
of the Belvadier Planning Commission.

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Item one is open forum. Open forum is an
opportunity for any citizen to briefly

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address the planning commission on any
matter that does not appear on the

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agenda. Comments are limited to no more
than three minutes. Matters that appear

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to warrant commission consideration may
be agendaized for further discussion at

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a later meeting. Is there anyone in the
audience that would like to speak during

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open forum?

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Rebecca, is there anyone on Zoom with
hand raised?

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» There are no hands raised on Zoom.
>> Thank you.

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Reports.
Are there any commissioners who would

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like to provide a report?

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Okay. Does staff have any reports?
>> I just have a quick um report that the

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um county of Marin is hosting a planning
commissioner training and that we are

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hopeful that all of the planning
commissioners can either send me an

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email or vote through that poll that I
sent to you guys to choose a date. It is

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from 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. And I think
as of right now, they have more votes

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for the June 1st date, but if you'd like
to get your votes in, it would be

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helpful for them, the organizers of that
event. Thank you.

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» Thank you. I uh voted today.
>> And Rebecca, I responded directly to

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you. I don't think I voted, but was that
adequate?

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» Yes, I let them know. Yeah, you can
respond directly to me, too.

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» Okay. Thank you.

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Now, um, consent calendar. The consent
calendar consists of items considered to

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be non-controversial.
Unless any item is specifically removed

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by any member of the council, staff or
public, the consent calendar will be

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adopted by one motion. Items removed
will be considered in the sequence they

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appear on the agenda.
Would any member of the planning

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commission like to remove a consent
calendar item?

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Okay. Um, would any member of the public
like to remove a consent calendar item?

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Rebecca, do you see anything on Zoom?
>> There are no hands raised on Zoom.

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» Thank you.
I move to adopt this consent calendar.

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» I'll second.
>> All in favor?

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» I
>> I

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» Thank you.

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Now I will now open the public hearing.
If any of the commissioners had exparte

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contacts, please disclose those contacts
on the record when it's your turn to

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speak on any item.

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I will now open the public hearing on
item two, design review and exception to

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total floor area to construct a 332
square foot addition at 340 Beach Road.

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Can we have the staff
>> just before that? Sorry. Um, I just

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texted Commissioner Wilson and she
thought it was 6:30, so she is on her

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way.
>> Okay.

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» Uh, do you want us to wait with the
presentation on 3:40?

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» I think we can go ahead and she can
catch up once she

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» Okay.
>> gets here.

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» Okay. Thank you, Chair Cidle and members
of the planning commission. for your

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consideration. This evening is an
application for design review, an

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exception to total floor area for an
addition, remodel, and second story deck

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replacement at 340 Beach Road.
The site consists of a 9,300T

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parcel on the southeastern southeastern
side of Belvadier Island. The site is

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developed with three-story residence and
detached garage. The parcel is

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surrounded by single family homes to the
north, south, and west, and Belvadier

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Cove to the east. The residence is
located at top an approximately 44%

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slope.
The proposed work is primarily at the

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first story of the residence. The prop
the project proposes a 193 foot addition

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at the rear as well as a 23 ft addition
on the eastern elevation.

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The project would enclose the 116 square
foot covered deck at the first story as

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well. The 116 square foot uh feet count
towards existing floor area as it has a

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floor roof and is supported by columns.

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The architect's renderings here show the
area of improvements. The left side of

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the images show where the 193 foot
addition will be located.

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And here on the right side, the 116
square foot covered patio that would be

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enclosed with new windows.

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For the commission's consideration, a
portion of the existing secondstory deck

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and covered patio encroached into the
20ft rear yard setback. Uh in 1979, the

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city council approved a variance
allowing the deck within the setback. Uh

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because the covered patio is considered
existing floor area and no expansion of

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the structure is proposed, a new
variance is not required to enclose the

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patio within this rear yard setback.

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From the rear elevation, a series of new
8ft tall 8 foot uh uh 2-in tall windows

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are proposed. Uh no windows or door
alterations are proposed on the second

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or third stories.
Here on the left side, a new uh window

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is proposed as well.
And at the right side, yard windows at

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the first story will be slightly larger
than the existing. Uh two exterior light

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fixtures are included at this site as
well.

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Uh the addition would have new uh
vertical wood siding, metal windows and

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doors in a dark gray color. Uh and then
the two wall sconces will be shielded in

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a fixed downward position.

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The applicant proposes a sauna and cold
plunge in the sideyard as well. Uh the

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architect provided additional detail
about the cold plunge which is 23 in

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tall uh 67 in long and weighs 110 lbs
when empty. Because the cold plunge is

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not considered a structure per our
municipal code, it can be located in the

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sideyard setback.

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The applicant requests an exception of
total floor area to allow 4,133

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square feet where the maximum allowed is
3,94.

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The request is a 216qt increase from the
existing floor area which was approved

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in 2012.
In order to grant the exception, uh the

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planning commission must make the
following findings. These include that

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primary views will not be significantly
impaired, that there are unusual

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characteristics to the parcel which
minimize the floor area, that the

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structure is appropriate in mass and
bulk, and that the additional square

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footage would not reduce privacy on
adjoining properties.

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Staff recommends that all findings can
be made, the primary views will not be

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impaired from the adjacent properties.
Uh 340 is ups slope from its north and

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south neighbors. and then the uphill
neighbors and pedestrians along Beach

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Road will not be impaired as the
addition is constructed downs slope

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beneath the residence.

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Unusual characteristics include the
site's steep slope, surrounding

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vegetation, and the structures location.
The addition is well below the neighbors

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to the west and above neighbors to the
north and south. The steep slope of the

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site allows the architect to tuck the
addition below the existing footprint

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without significantly altering or
enlarging the resident's appearance.

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Additionally, the surrounding vegetation
act as a privacy screening, further

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minimizing the floor area impact.

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Uh finally, the addition is appropriate
in mass bulk and character for the

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parcel. The maximum height of the
structure will not increase or extend

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beyond the footprint of the existing
structure.

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Staff has received two letters in
support of the project from both uh

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sideyard neighbors.
The project is exempt from SQA

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and uh in conclusion staff recommends
that all the design review findings can

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be made as well as the exception of
total floor area. And we're happy to

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answer any questions.
Do any commissioners have questions of

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staff on this item?
>> I do. Um Sammy, you you mentioned about

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the cold plunge, but what about the
sauna? The sauna is usually taller than

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cold plunge. It has a mass. Is that how
how does the planning um basically

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what's the rules about having a sauna
which is a structure?

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» Yeah, thank thank you for that question.
My understanding when talking to the

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architect that they would remove the uh
sauna from the scope of work generally

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if the sauna has if it's taller than six
feet or taller uh it counts towards

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floor area. So for that reason in light
of putting more floor area they decided

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to remove it from the scope of work.

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» Thank you Sammy. Um I had a question.
Um, do you know what the floor areas are

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of the um immediate next door next door
neighbors for this parcel?

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» Not off the top of my head, but we can
find I can find that out for you.

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» Any other questions?
Would the applicant like to make a

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presentation, please?

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You can run it from there if you'd like.
I can share slides as well.

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» Raise their hands.
It looks like uh Michael Fishman.

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» Yes, they've raised their hands.
>> Yes. Hi.

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» Um, hi. How are you?
>> You're sideways.

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» Hi. Are we upside down? It looks like
>> Yeah, that's good.

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» Okay, how about this?
>> There you go. That's better.

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» Um, our apologies
that we cannot be there in person today.

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I'm Annie. This is Michael. We are the
residents at 340 Beach. We um live there

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full-time with our two little boys, ages
three and seven. Um our older boy is

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already at Reed and our younger boy will
be at Reed next year. We've now been in

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the area for two years and absolutely
love it. Have um engaged in the

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community um have built community and
really enjoy being members um and

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residents of Belvadier.
>> Yep. Couldn't have said it better. Thank

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you guys. Appreciate the time and the
interest.

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Okay. Um, thank you, Michael and Annie.
Uh, my name is Cedric Ber. I'm the, uh,

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architect of Michael and Annie Fishman.
Um, thank you, um, commissioners, um,

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and chair, and thank you to the, uh,
planning staff for their assistance uh,

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getting us here this evening. Um I think
uh Sam's presentation was was was

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thorough and and covered the majority of
the um of the issues at hand. Um if uh

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Sammy, did you want to uh share the PDF?
Mhm.

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» Um really the the the main the main
thing to uh to point out as we go to the

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uh to the lower floor plan which is the
only floor plan of uh of any work um is

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that we have
um three areas of addition. We were uh

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we found out in in the middle of the
process that uh that the or Sammy

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confirmed that we don't have um the the
116 square foot deck that's off of the

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existing uh laundry room does not count
uh or it currently already counts

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towards uh towards L coverage uh and F.
Um, so

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sorry, catching up here.

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Um, can I I I can I can drive as much as
you here on this. Uh, Sammy or why don't

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we go to uh a 2.1.

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So as uh as I think
one more

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page seven.

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No, one more eight.
Uh so uh really the the the genesis of

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uh of the whole project uh as you guys
all uh came and visited this site. Uh

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obviously it's a extremely steep uh
slope site. the lower floor. I don't

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don't know much about the previous uh
owners, but it was certainly laid out

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for um I'm guessing probably a couple
because it has a a exceedingly large uh

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primary suite uh that takes up probably
75% of the floor and then uh one small

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bedroom that is currently the the
bedroom that the boys uh the boys are

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sharing. So, the owners um obviously
with three and seven-year-old boys, they

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they will be growing and they they
wanted to get them each a bedroom. Saw

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that opportunity of that deck and said,
"Well, that seems seems so easy to

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enclose. Let's let's do that and and
give two bedrooms." So, we've been

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working um on developing the plan. We
kind of came up with a office gym space

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uh in between the two uh the boys
bedrooms and the primary. And

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essentially the primary bathroom is in
the same location as the existing. We're

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just kind of uh extending out to bear on
the same pilings that are existing. uh

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creating that extra 193 square ft uh at
the uh the rear yard, the downhill side

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uh to create the primary uh primary
bedroom. Uh everything's uh kind of

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cleaned up and a little more uh a little
more efficient. Um, as as Sammy

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mentioned, the uh the patio area off of
the uh primary bathroom was really

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intended as a we were we were looking to
give it some purpose and thought at

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sauna and cold plunge would be great and
uh I I didn't uh I was not aware that

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the sauna which I think we had intended
as as kind of a a kit sauna from u you

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know a vendor online as opposed to a
permanent structure. Uh but hearing

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hearing that that would count towards uh
F and L coverage, we are willing to pull

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that out. So if uh I'm happy to uh have
that uh be a condition of approval.

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Um you know, really the uh Sammy, do you
want to go to the

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um just the renderings?
That's page.

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actually we we'll stick to that to that
that elevation. Um

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the the this the side elevation. So we
we we did reach out to both neighbors as

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uh you all saw in the site visits. It's
really um it's an extreme enough slope

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that that even though we are increasing
the the glass on the side, it's kind of

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a a special circumstance that that
really nobody is affected. Uh I think um

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as far as the findings go, primary views
are really not impacted from uh from any

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of the neighbors given the the the the
45 degree slope. Um unusual

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characteristics are certainly that that
same 45 degree slope. Um prefer per

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structure
is really not changing in mass and bulk.

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Uh we're just infilling um uh on uh two
ends of uh two ends of uh an existing uh

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existing mass all bearing on the same uh
foundation.

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Um and certainly not an area that will
impact uh any neighboring

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um views or privacy uh given the
location under the deck. Um really only

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as as you go down Beach Road, it really
is only visible uh only the garage is

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and the entry is visible. Um you could I
suppose argue that it's visible from the

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water, which uh uh it it is, but uh um
Sammy, do you want to go to the

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renderings perhaps? Or maybe maybe just
go uh up one to page nine.

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Uh and so the the downhill
uh downhill so this is the rear rear

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yard elevation. No materials are
changing. We're matching the uh the

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redwood siding that's existing. Uh we
are shifting to uh dark anodized which

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read as black uh windows on this floor.
Um because we realized going to u to

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match the existing which is a what used
to be dark anodized which was more of a

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brown. Uh so really the intent is just
to to match uh match the existing. We're

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going to be replacing the decking
because we're redoing the waterproofing

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over the new uh new areas, but it will
remain a wood deck. Um, and we will

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reuse the the steel and glass railing
that's uh that's existing. Um, I think

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:24,080
uh I I'll just mention that uh on since
these are all bedrooms, we we do plan to

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00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:31,520
have uh shades in all these all these
rooms to um to create create a a

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blackout situation for sleeping uh and
sun protection for furniture and and

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00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:43,760
whatnot. Um
and I think that about covers it. I'm

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00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:46,760
open to questions if you have them.
>> Questions?

217
00:19:47,679 --> 00:19:56,320
» Thanks, Cedric. I know we uh talked
about it um yesterday. I guess that was

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00:19:53,520 --> 00:20:01,919
the that there's off to the I guess it
would be the south

219
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:08,080
uh east corner of the of the property is
that kind of freestanding about deck

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00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:13,440
that's about you know 25 square ft. um
doesn't show up on the plans. Um you

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00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:18,960
know, as I mentioned, it's, you know,
there's some concrete steps down from

222
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:22,080
the patio that lead there. Um where, you
know, apparently there's going to be a

223
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:26,559
cold plunge. I I just think that's
awfully enticing when there's kids

224
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,640
around and no railing around it.
>> Um you know, it's about 30 feet down

225
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:33,520
before you hit anything if you go to the
edge of that.

226
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:38,320
» So, I'm just a uh wondering if you have
any thoughts. I might I could see also

227
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:44,559
where that deck might be helpful in the
course of construction as well uh to put

228
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:50,400
stuff on. But um what are your thoughts
on that is or

229
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:54,480
» u to to be honest that was uh well so
the the deck was was there when uh Annie

230
00:20:53,039 --> 00:21:00,640
and Michael bought the bought the
property. Um I I I I'll be honest I

231
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:06,880
don't think we even noticed when we were
doing the plans that it's there. Um, I

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00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:12,000
I'm I'm happy. I It may or may not be
useful during construction, but if uh if

233
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:19,600
you'd like us to remove it, I I don't
think I mean with uh a on the downhill

234
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:24,799
side a good seven or eight foot drop uh
perhaps five at best. Uh it is it is

235
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:31,039
definitely it wouldn't wouldn't meet
code requirements uh at all. So um I

236
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:35,520
don't think any of us would want our
kids playing on it.

237
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:40,080
uh happy to to follow your lead on what
what you it may be useful during

238
00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:45,520
construction. So perhaps the condition
is to remove it after or you know before

239
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:49,520
final inspection. Um but happy to happy
to um work with you on that one.

240
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,440
» Great.
>> That's it for me.

241
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:58,960
» Thank you. Um anyone else?
>> Um I have a question too. You mentioned

242
00:21:56,159 --> 00:22:04,000
um the deck is going to be replaced with
wood, but on our site visit you

243
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:08,320
mentioned it's going to be um pedestal
pavers.

244
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:11,360
» Oh, sorry. I I described the I described
a pedestal system which can be wood or

245
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,799
stone.
>> So, it's going to be wood over the

246
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:17,919
pedestal. Your pedestal is going to be
wood.

247
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:22,799
» The current construction of the deck,
which is a little unusual, it's it's

248
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:27,120
vertical 2x4s with almost no spacing
between. So, we're just because

249
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:33,919
obviously three and a half inch thick
deck is atypical. Uh, so we're just

250
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:40,080
going to do a I'm assuming a eBay deck
or or or but a 3/4 inch material over

251
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:44,480
the drainage plane. Uh, but on a on a
pedestal system.

252
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:49,440
» Got it. Thank you.
>> Um, I have a I have a question and it

253
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:55,120
may also be a question for for for
Sammy. Um in those in the staff report

254
00:22:52,480 --> 00:23:03,919
it says that in 2012 the planning
commission um approved um uh 4,181

255
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:11,679
square ft an exception to total floor
area. I know that the current floor area

256
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:17,200
of the of the house is only 3,917
square ft. Um, and what's being proposed

257
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:22,880
is 4,133,
which is below what the what the report

258
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:27,200
says was permitted in in 2012. Do we
know why? Uh, first of all, there's a

259
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:32,799
discrepancy between what was approved in
2012 and what was actually con

260
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:38,919
constructed and
if so, what was approved in 20 in in in

261
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:38,919
2012?

262
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:47,440
» Perhaps they didn't. We don't know, but
I can speculate that they didn't build

263
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:52,159
the entirety of the project that was
approved in 2012.

264
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,000
» I I don't know. I started in 2015 here.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

265
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,799
» Yeah.
>> You're like, I'm a long I'm a longtime,

266
00:23:55,919 --> 00:24:01,760
but not that long.
>> I I have a little bit of insight,

267
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:07,440
although I I ultimately I'm not sure I
have the the absolute answer. I think

268
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:16,240
the uh the the what's on screen right
now, the bedroom one was uh extended out

269
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:20,559
downhill I maybe like eight 8 feet or
so. So that that that was the that was

270
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:25,679
the project in 2012.
>> Um

271
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:30,960
ultimately when I do asbuilt drawings I
I I do my own calculations. I can't I

272
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:37,919
can't rely on somebody else's numbers.
So I just I do them as I as I see fit

273
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:43,520
and you know if if obviously if planning
has any questions we we go through them.

274
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:51,600
Yeah, I mean I I was just I was curious
as to whether um either the expansion of

275
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:58,080
um you know the enclosure of the deck
into what's now going to be bedroom 2 or

276
00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:02,880
the extension under the deck and what's
now going to be part of the primary

277
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:07,679
bedroom was part of the plans that were
reviewed in 20 in in approved in 2012.

278
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:13,600
But
>> I I I did look at the old plans and I I

279
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:18,279
it was it was only focused in that that
bedroom one that's on screen right now.

280
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,279
» Thank you.

281
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:33,159
» Okay. Any other questions? See none.
Um are there any comments from members

282
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,159
of the public regarding this item?

283
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:41,279
Rebecca, any hands raised?
>> There are no hands raised on Zoom.

284
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:45,919
» Okay,
with that, I will close the public

285
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:50,960
hearing and bring the matter back to the
commission for discussion. Um,

286
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Commissioner Shinsky, do you want to
start the conversation?

287
00:25:52,799 --> 00:26:02,640
» Yeah.
So, um, just a couple things. Uh, one I

288
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:09,279
I appreciate the uh the fact that the uh
you know the the window uh trim with the

289
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:16,400
ani anodized bronze that that the intent
is to ultimately uh change the upstairs

290
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:22,960
windows to match that. Um I think that's
ideal so to prevent them from standing

291
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:28,559
out. Um overall it I I do think the the
the project works for me. I think in an

292
00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:34,400
in an ideal world where
um you have a

293
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:40,080
uh a project where you know a couple
exceptions to the square footage have

294
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:44,720
historically already been granted. Um
maybe a little earlier in the process we

295
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:51,360
might chase you down and try to convince
you to, you know, put in a countertop

296
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:55,120
and a little sink and call it a JU. Um
but I'm not going to stand on that

297
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:58,720
tonight. I think the fact that the the
square footage kind of tucks nicely

298
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:07,120
under, you know, within the existing
footprint uh helps to get me there. Um

299
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:13,279
that's
that in the deck I mentioned. That's

300
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:18,480
about all my comments. Alex, thank you,
Commissioner Watson.

301
00:27:16,159 --> 00:27:23,200
» Well, I think Don just stole my thunder.
Um,

302
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:30,400
you know, I' I'd like I'd like to note
that, you know, while 44 uh degree slope

303
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:34,159
is extremely extremely steep, there are
a number of other properties um

304
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,799
especially on that on that stretch of
beach which also have very very uh steep

305
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,440
slopes. Some of which we've we've
actually seen in front of our commission

306
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:49,279
re recent rec recently. Um, and the
reason why I asked about the the size of

307
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:54,799
the of the of the neighbors is um, you
know, while I appreciate that this is an

308
00:27:52,159 --> 00:28:00,399
exception to overall floor area, um, I
do like the fact that it the overall

309
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:07,440
footprint is not is not changing as um,
other than the the small addition um, by

310
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:14,480
the uh, by the bathroom which itself is
actually underneath underneath the eve

311
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:20,559
upstairs. Um and so from a from a total
bulk and size perspective, the the

312
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:28,880
addition will will fit will fit within.
Um I too generally do not like to have

313
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:34,399
uh floor area exceptions where um
there's not an additional unit being

314
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:40,320
added. Um but to the extent of of I'll
say equity and fairness um to the extent

315
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:46,799
that the the immediately um next door
next door neighbors are I believe as

316
00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:55,440
larger if not if not larger it would
seem to be inequitable to not permit

317
00:28:51,120 --> 00:29:01,520
this home this homeowner to um extend
their livable floor floor space within

318
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,520
the within the same footprint.

319
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:14,399
Commissioner Watson, if you'd like,
Rebecca pulled up the floor area. Uh 344

320
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:22,120
beach is 3,700 square foot plus the
garage. Uh and then 330 beach is 4,200

321
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:22,120
plus the garage.

322
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:34,159
And does that in in I I know one of the
neighbors is under construction right

323
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:39,039
now. Is that the to be constructed
square footage?

324
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:46,520
» That neighbor um it has a red tag and
should not be constructing. So we aren't

325
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,520
very clear exactly what is happening.

326
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,679
» Okay. Commissioner Jama

327
00:29:53,760 --> 00:30:04,000
» as far as the floor exception I also
think that um the um mass and bulk is

328
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:10,320
already there um and they are um
basically building underneath which um

329
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:15,200
doesn't add anything to the uh visual
there is no visual impact from the

330
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:21,279
street from the sides from nowhere and
also I think looking at other side of

331
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:25,679
these um buildings is not attractive if
even being seen which I don't think it

332
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:30,799
is being seen but even if it does I
think enclosing it um makes it more

333
00:30:28,399 --> 00:30:36,799
attractive however that void that they
are enclosing I think it is an

334
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:42,080
attractive um architectural um element
of the property but at the same time

335
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:45,919
it's not being viewed from anywhere so
um I'm not objecting it so I have no

336
00:30:44,399 --> 00:30:51,880
problem with that I can make the
findings as far as the sauna I I think

337
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,880
um

338
00:30:51,919 --> 00:31:01,120
as it is not presented what is that
sauna is that look like and it is going

339
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:08,000
to be added to the floor area I would
say um make it a condition uh to

340
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:13,840
condition of approval to remove that
sauna um that is noted on the drawings

341
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:19,919
um
that's all for me

342
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:24,799
» thank you And with that, I would like to
introduce the newest planning

343
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,640
commissioner in Beladair, Zolda Wilson.
Thank you for joining us. I'll ask you

344
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:33,600
for your comments now.
>> Yeah, thank you so much. Um I just want

345
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:38,399
to um thank the applicant for uh the
presentation tonight and uh to sort of

346
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,640
echo some of the comments from the other
commissioners. I do think that the

347
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:46,720
design was thoughtful and trying to um
comply with the existing conditions

348
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,200
around the site. you know, as far as
design review, um the structure will

349
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:57,039
remain in character with its setting
even with the um infill project and for

350
00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:01,840
the floor area exception as well. Um
given the uh the steepness of the site

351
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,720
and the location of adjacent properties,
uh the impact is minimized of the floor

352
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:12,799
area exception on the site. So I I could
make that finding as well. And and I

353
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:17,039
understand the condition of approval um
with the ASA removal that would be just

354
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:21,919
for the floor area exception. Is that
right? It's not for the design review uh

355
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,799
findings.
>> I don't know the answer to that.

356
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:33,440
» I'm assuming the sauna is being removed
uh because of the floor area exception

357
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:38,159
question, not for design review.
>> What? No, it's a a structure within the

358
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,880
setback. Yeah.
>> Um,

359
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,240
» we don't have any design for it either.
We don't know how it looks like.

360
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,320
» Oh, where it's going. Yeah.
>> I guess I just wondering where it goes

361
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:52,240
in the um I I think it'd be cleaner to
put it in the design review resolution

362
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,039
only because we're not accounting for it
in the floor area exception resolution

363
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:01,919
and we reference the plans and the date
in the design review resolution. So we

364
00:33:00,159 --> 00:33:06,640
can say with the you know the set of
plans prepared by such and such on this

365
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,480
date with the removal of the sauna. So
it's clear on that one.

366
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:13,640
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

367
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:24,559
» Uh when I uh visited the house I must
say I was impressed with um just the

368
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,679
dynamism and the views of the interior.
It's an interesting house and you know I

369
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:32,320
think that's the nice thing about
Belvadier. you have all these different

370
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:37,679
periods and characters of houses. I
think that the architects done a good

371
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:42,960
job of um figuring out how to do an
expansion and make it more of a family

372
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:48,559
home because it really didn't appear to
be, you know, long-term workable as a

373
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:54,720
family home. The the new interior space
is, as other commissioners have noted,

374
00:33:51,440 --> 00:34:01,039
um tucked under the existing massing and
within the columns. So um the impact is

375
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:08,320
really minimized and I think he's worked
um very well with the existing character

376
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:13,760
of the house and and maintained that. Um
I guess I was um thinking some similar

377
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:20,800
thoughts to some of the other
commissioners when we see a Florida

378
00:34:16,399 --> 00:34:28,560
exemption of this magnitude come in and
it's about 33% of the base allowed area.

379
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:34,399
Um, I think it's all kind of in our
minds to see if there's an opportunity

380
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:41,599
to have some of that space um be applied
to an ADU or a J AU

381
00:34:37,919 --> 00:34:47,520
um which would thereby reduce the uh
amount of the floor area exception. Um,

382
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:51,760
in fact, I um pursued the thought a
little further and I had a conversation

383
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:58,640
with the the owners, the architect and
the staff. there did appear to be a room

384
00:34:53,839 --> 00:35:06,240
that um in my mind looked like it fit um
would fit well as a J AU without any

385
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:10,880
modification. Um however um and
everybody listened very patiently to my

386
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:17,599
thoughts. Um and I became a little more
educated. There's there was one factor

387
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:21,760
that was missing um which was somewhere
there would need to be another

388
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:28,720
accessible exterior door in the house.
Um now um having said that you know

389
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:33,839
perhaps if that issue had been raised
earlier in the design process maybe it

390
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:39,119
could have been easily accommodated um
this probably isn't the time to raise

391
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:43,920
the spectre of redesign but um I just
wanted to comment on it because I think

392
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:48,720
as we continue to look at floor area
exemptions going forward that's going to

393
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:54,160
be um something that's in the front of
all of our minds and um we'll be hoping

394
00:35:51,440 --> 00:36:00,000
to, you know, find as many opportunities
to get additional units into the city as

395
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:07,359
possible. Um, so with that, I I'm going
to be able to make the design review

396
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:12,040
findings and also um find in favor of
the exception to the total floor area.

397
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:19,599
So, um, with that, I think we're
probably ready to vote. Um I just want

398
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:22,640
to read
>> vote but get a motion. You want to say

399
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,520
something? Go ahead.
>> Yep. So it sounds like we have uh two

400
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,160
additional uh conditions that have been
floated by the commissioners. The first

401
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:38,400
is the removal of this of the sauna from
the from the design review um under

402
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:43,200
under consideration and the second is
the removal of the deck below the east

403
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:46,200
side of the house um at at the end of
construction.

404
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:51,079
Nodding. darling. Okay.

405
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,200
» So, um you want to make that a formal
motion?

406
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:02,240
» Do you want to make make the motion? All
right. Um All right. I'd like to make a

407
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:06,400
motion that the planning commission um
uh grant approval of the design review

408
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:10,640
application pursuant to uh title 20 of
the Belvadier Municipal Code for

409
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:16,160
residential addition and re and remodel
at 340 Beach Road uh with the following

410
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:22,000
additional um condition conditions added
to uh the resolution. a new condition M

411
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:27,760
which is the removal of the of the sauna
from the design review approval and

412
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:34,480
condition N which is the removal of the
deck below the east side of the house at

413
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:37,760
the end of construction.
>> Second.

414
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,760
» All in favor? I
>> I

415
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:52,520
» we needed a motion on the exception. I
think someone would care to make that.

416
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,280
Um,

417
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,880
don't.

418
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,640
All right. Um, I'd like to um to make a
motion that the planning commission

419
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:17,040
grant the application for an exception
to total floor area based on the based

420
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:23,000
on the findings that are listed in the
in the resol in the resolution according

421
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,000
to section 19.52.120a1

422
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:31,119
of the Belvadier Municipal Code with
respect to 340 Beach Road.

423
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:37,240
» All in favor? I
>> I

424
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,240
» Thank you.

425
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:45,079
Thanks.

426
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:58,640
» We will now move on to hear item three,
demolition application to remove a

427
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:03,040
garage shed and stairs at 135 Belvadier
Avenue. Can we have a staff report,

428
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:06,960
please? Thank you again, chairs Idol and
commissioners.

429
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:11,599
For your consideration is an application
for demolition permit to remove a

430
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:18,400
detached garage, shed, and wood stairs
at 135 Belvadier Avenue.

431
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:24,480
The project site is on a steeply sloped
52,000 foot lot. Uh the site received

432
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:29,280
lot merger approval in 2019, which
previously consisted of three parcels.

433
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:33,920
The site is developed with a dilapidated
residence, detached garage and wood

434
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:38,640
staircase. Uh the property contains
mature unmaintained vegetation and

435
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:45,560
single family residences flank each side
of the property and Richardson Bay abuts

436
00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:45,560
the property at the rear.

437
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:54,400
The applicant is requesting a demolition
permit to remove the existing 921 square

438
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:58,560
foot garage, shed, and associated wood
stairs from the front of the property.

439
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:03,839
The scope of demolition also includes
removal of fallen trees in the vicinity

440
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:07,240
of the garage and a damaged guardrail
along the driveway.

441
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:14,480
A portion of the existing garage
encroaches

442
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:18,720
onto city property. The approval of the
proposed demolition would eliminate this

443
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:23,119
non-conforming structure which does not
meet the city's front yard setback

444
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:29,000
requirements.
Additionally, concurrent applications

445
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,000
are under review

446
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:36,079
uh to remove an existing front yard
fence that encroaches into the Belvier

447
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Avenue right away. The project there
would install a new six-foot fence along

448
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:45,400
the front property line with a small
portion remaining within city property.

449
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:53,599
Uh this project would be exempt from SQA
and staff recommends that all demolition

450
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:57,520
findings can be made particularly in
that the demolition will not remove a

451
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,440
housing unit and that the demolition
will not have an impact on the

452
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:05,440
availability of housing units thereby
staying consistent with the goals of the

453
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:09,920
city of Belvadier's housing element.
Thank you and we're happy to answer any

454
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:16,000
questions.
>> Um Sam Sammy I just have one question

455
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:19,920
for you. Um, is I understand that the
fence is not up for approval tonight or

456
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,839
is the fence up for approval because
it's not included in the motion?

457
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:28,960
» The fence is not part of this
application for approval. Uh, it went

458
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:36,040
through the design review process, more
of a exception level.

459
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,040
» Okay, great. Thanks. Just making clear.

460
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:46,480
So, um I'm used to seeing applications
for demolition when there's a new

461
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:52,960
project coming. There's not um a new
project here um referenced, but do you

462
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:58,640
have any sense of, you know, what the
future of this property is?

463
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:03,200
» Yeah, good question. We we have an
application in right now for a a new

464
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:08,400
residence as well. uh planning is
currently reviewing those plans for

465
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:12,640
completeness uh and it's a project for a
brand new residence.

466
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,200
» Thank you.
>> J.

467
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:22,640
» Excellent.
>> All right. I have a couple of questions

468
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:27,599
too. Um so
when you are

469
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:34,400
approving a fence don't you require a
survey and um for that fence being in

470
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:40,560
the city property do you require
revocable license?

471
00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:46,119
» We we do require a survey um and this
property has a revocable license for the

472
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,119
fence currently.

473
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:57,280
So Sammy, just so I'm clear, this is
this is the replacement fence while the

474
00:42:52,640 --> 00:43:00,079
project is going on or the forever fence
that's being

475
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:05,200
approved.
>> Just a reminder, we're not reviewing the

476
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,160
fence tonight here, right? We're the
fence is under a separate design review

477
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:16,319
process.
>> Um I don't know if it's a forever fence.

478
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:19,839
Um but the architect and
the architect is here so he could

479
00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:25,760
probably answer that. The architect who
submitted the plans for the single

480
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:30,640
family home ADU and JADU. I think what's
happening is the this application is for

481
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:36,400
the demolition of the garage and there's
going to be a driveway cut into the

482
00:43:33,839 --> 00:43:44,560
property and a driveway that goes down
to a garage on lower on the site. But um

483
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:51,359
could probably answer those questions
better.

484
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:55,200
» Sorry. So, the uh new fence is you said
it's approved by staff. It's a staff

485
00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:00,880
level approval.
>> The design review exception. So, it's

486
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:06,640
it's approved by the city um the city
manager

487
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:11,680
» but the demolition is not
>> demolition applications are required to

488
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:18,440
go to the planning commission.
But new fences aren't always required.

489
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,440
Thank you.

490
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:28,680
» Okay.
If the applicant is here and would like

491
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,680
to speak.

492
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:39,720
» Hi. Yeah. My name is David Katsub and
I'm the architect.

493
00:44:36,319 --> 00:44:39,720
» Is it on?

494
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:51,280
Okay, sorry. Um, yeah, my name is David
Katsub and I'm the architect. So, this

495
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:55,440
all started, we wanted to uh replace the
existing fence because it's basically

496
00:44:52,960 --> 00:45:02,400
falling down, but since the existing
fence is on city property, um, it's

497
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:06,800
necessary we we necessarily have to uh
demolish the garage structure to put the

498
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:15,119
new fence on because the garage is on
city property. So that's why the

499
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:20,240
demolition permit was um um made. So um
as as far as the the overall design for

500
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:25,359
the new proposal, this will not be the
final fence. The final fence um will be

501
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:29,760
a totally different design. It'll it's
metal. It follows the property line. Um

502
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:33,920
there is an encroachment permit right
now. We want to keep the existing

503
00:45:32,319 --> 00:45:38,319
driveway and that gate. you know, we're
going to resurface it and make it look

504
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:42,480
nice, but we want to keep it for um
potential use and construction, but at

505
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:47,520
the end of the day, the new driveway is
at the end of the property towards

506
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:51,280
Cliff. So, where that gate is will be
part of a fence structure that's part

507
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:56,640
that'll be consistent with the design
that we're doing. And then, um in

508
00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:02,640
addition, once that's done, we do get an
additional parking spot on the street.

509
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,480
So, that's helpful. So the new design is
they're reviewing it right now, but we

510
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:10,160
have made that application.
So we didn't really intend to do the

511
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:16,160
demo right now. It's just that that
thing is just falling apart and we'd

512
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:21,960
like to clean up the appearance
and also for safety.

513
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,960
» Yeah, it's definitely an eyesore.

514
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:30,119
» Any other questions for the applicant
while he's there?

515
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,720
Thank you.

516
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,960
Are there any comments from members of
the public?

517
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:52,880
Um, good afternoon. So, my name is Steve
Silverstein. I'm a 30-year resident here

518
00:46:50,319 --> 00:46:59,599
of Belvadier. I've been here long
enough. This will be the fourth house

519
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:05,200
being proposed for this site in the 30
years that I've been here. And I've been

520
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:13,680
at the planning commission meeting for
each of those three previous

521
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:20,160
ones going back almost 30 years. And
each time I have complained about the

522
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:28,319
fence. Uh what we have in that area is
kind of a tunnel. The fence is ugly and

523
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:33,839
it's falling down and it creates a wall
depend on one side and the other side of

524
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:39,119
course is the uphill of the properties
and so you have a like you're going

525
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:43,760
through a tunnel there and it's ugly and
so on and I was a little shocked just to

526
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:50,079
hear that the proposed fence even though
it's temporary is going to be six feet

527
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:54,720
high which means it's going to continue
this walled defect. act. I sort of

528
00:47:52,560 --> 00:48:01,599
thought that uh fences were only
supposed to be five feet high so that

529
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:07,119
when you if you're over five feet, you
can walk by and see over the top and see

530
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:14,480
the see the views there, which is what a
lot of people like like to do. So, I

531
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:22,720
hope whatever fence is done is low or
set further back into the property so we

532
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:32,000
can see over it. I drive by or walk by
this thing every single day and I would

533
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:36,240
like to finally see this tunnel
demolished. Thank you.

534
00:48:33,839 --> 00:48:42,720
» Okay. Thank you for your comments and I
um just want to say it does not appear

535
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:48,400
that the planning commission has any say
on the fence, but I'm sure other people

536
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:52,559
who are present heard your comments um
who are involved in the approval. So,

537
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:57,440
thank you.
>> Um, Alex, can we ask the staff to

538
00:48:55,599 --> 00:49:03,520
explain again one more time? Sorry, I
asked this twice, but I'm still not

539
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:08,960
clear, especially when one of the um our
neighbors also is concerned. How because

540
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:14,480
I have seen that we previously had
fences on um design review and you

541
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:20,960
mentioned some are, some are not. Can
you explain what made this fence

542
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,960
something that uh did not require um
design review?

543
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:26,800
» Sure.
>> So, if someone comes in for an

544
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:31,119
application to replace an existing
fence, it doesn't rise to the level of a

545
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:36,640
planning commission review. In this
case, it just happens to be a very well,

546
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:41,520
it's a it's a fence replacement, right?
And so, we just it's isolated. A lot of

547
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:47,680
the fences that come to the planning
commission are included with a major

548
00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:52,640
landscape plan or a new house or a major
renovation and they're redoing all of

549
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:59,280
their fences as well and updating
landscaping. This application was merely

550
00:49:55,359 --> 00:50:02,880
to replace a fence which fence
replacements

551
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:07,040
as I said isolated don't come to
planning commission. Where this one got

552
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:13,520
a little complicated was in order to
move the fence right off of the city

553
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:17,520
right ofway. It required to demolish to
demolish the garage. So it's kind of

554
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:22,400
like a little bit of a domino effect
here. And so that all demolitions then

555
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:28,079
are required to come to planning
commission. So that's why we're even

556
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:32,920
entertaining and talking about the fence
because we're here for the demolition of

557
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,920
the garage.

558
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:36,359
Thank you.

559
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:46,640
» Is there anybody on Zoom, Rebecca, that
wants to comment on this?

560
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:50,559
» There's no hands raised on Zoom.
>> Thank you.

561
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:55,680
I'll now close the public hearing and
bring this matter back to the commission

562
00:50:53,599 --> 00:51:00,720
for discussion.
Um, Commissioner Jai, would you like to

563
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:07,920
start the discussion?
>> Sure. I think um as um everyone probably

564
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:15,119
agrees that that garage is in a bad
shape shape. Safety issues and removal

565
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:21,359
of it u would be a um
in in the benefit of the public. So I

566
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:27,920
have no um problem with demolishing that
um garage.

567
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:35,200
» Thank you, Commissioner Wilson.
I have support that application

568
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:41,800
based on the overall finding
that supports the city plan and

569
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,800
additionally there's nonformance

570
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,119
correct.

571
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:54,359
» Thank you Commissioner Shinski.
Godspeed,

572
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:01,839
» Commissioner Watson.
>> Um, I also can make the can make the

573
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:08,079
findings as I believe the existing
garage is both unsafe and an and an

574
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:12,079
isore and should be demolished. I'm not
sure if we have um if anyone has

575
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,040
contacted the local coyotes though who
apparently are using it as a home, but

576
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:21,680
um I'm also in favor of removing their
home.

577
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:27,839
Thank you.
Also, I will also be able to make

578
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:35,760
findings um in favor of the demolition.
Um I'll be surprised if there's any

579
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:42,800
conditions to craft here. I think
we're probably ready to take a vote on

580
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:49,359
this uh as soon as I get a motion.
>> All right. Um, I'd like to make a motion

581
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:53,280
um to grant approval um to title 16 of
the Belvadier Municipal Code to allow

582
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:59,040
the demolition of the existing detached
garage, shed, and wooden stairs at 135

583
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:02,400
um Belvadier with the conditions that
are listed in the resolution.

584
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,440
» Thank you.
>> Second.

585
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:10,359
» All those in favor? I
>> I

586
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:10,359
» Thank you.

587
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:24,880
We'll now move on to item four, design
review and revocable license for a re

588
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:28,160
remodel at 47 West Shore Road. Can we
have a staff report, please?

589
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:32,319
» Thank you again, Chair Cidle and members
of the planning commission. for your

590
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:36,720
consideration is an application for
design review and revocable license for

591
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:42,960
window and door replacement, deck
enlargement, and new landscaping at 47

592
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:48,800
Westshore Road.
Subject parcel is 11,000 square ft and

593
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:53,280
contains a 4,300 ft two-story residence
and attached two-car garage. Site is

594
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:57,680
relatively flat and sits on the western
side of Belvadier Island. Uh the site

595
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:02,200
includes a front yard swimming pool,
overwater deck, and boat lift.

596
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:10,000
The project involves an exterior remodel
that would include new windows and doors

597
00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:15,040
uh and siding across all elevations as
well as a partial uh removal of the

598
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:21,040
existing roof.
The project includes deck expansions

599
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:28,240
along the side and rear yard,
new landscaping,

600
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:33,680
and a new hot tub and fire pit.
Regarding roof modifications, the

601
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:38,400
project proposes to remove 173 square ft
of the canal levered first story roof.

602
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:42,880
The current eve encroaches 10 feet into
the front yard setback. While removing

603
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,359
the eve would not bring the structure
into conformance with the setback

604
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:51,520
requirements. It would reduce the
encroachment by two feet and three

605
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:56,720
inches.
A non-reflective matte finish metal roof

606
00:54:54,400 --> 00:55:01,640
fascia in a dark bronze color would be
installed where the eve would be

607
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,640
removed.

608
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:13,280
The existing uh cupboard entry currently
2 20 271 square feet uh count towards

609
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:17,599
floor area and would be reduced to 143
square ft as part of the interior

610
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:25,319
remodel. This reduction would be visible
from West Shore Road resulting in a

611
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:25,319
reduced uh and smaller entry canopy.

612
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:34,559
Regarding the deck expansion, the
northern sideyard deck would be enlarged

613
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:39,520
from 152 square feet to 600 square feet.
Uh it would also include a new stair

614
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:46,480
access to the shoreline.
The southern side deck would be expanded

615
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:51,520
290 ft mainly along the left side yard.
Uh, under a separate application, the

616
00:55:48,799 --> 00:55:55,839
applicant proposes to install a new 6-ft
tall fence along the side and front

617
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:58,839
property lines to accommodate this deck
expansion.

618
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:05,599
The project proposes to replace or
reconfigure the exterior windows and

619
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:10,079
doors. The majority of the openings
would be in the same location and of

620
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:16,559
similar size to those that exist facing
West Road. No significant window changes

621
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:22,559
are proposed. Facing
the rear in Richardson Bay, a new clear

622
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:28,880
story window and 5' 6 in by 4' 5 in
fixed window are proposed.

623
00:56:26,799 --> 00:56:35,920
And on the left side, one sliding door
would be replaced with a smaller window.

624
00:56:33,359 --> 00:56:41,400
At the right sideyard, uh window and
door modifications are generally

625
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,400
proposed in the same locations.

626
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:48,960
New horizontal wood siding in a light
gray color is proposed throughout the

627
00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:53,359
residence. Uh the rear and sideyard
decking would be constructed constructed

628
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:57,599
of natural epay wood with a light gray
finish and windows and doors would be

629
00:56:55,599 --> 00:57:01,319
constructed using anodized metal with a
dark bronze finish.

630
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:08,559
The project proposes new landscaping and
the front yard. Landscaping would

631
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:15,040
include four bay laurels to 20t tall
along with lavender and baby mat rush

632
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:20,280
along the southern and northern sidey
yards. English laurel to 10 ft tall are

633
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,280
proposed

634
00:57:20,319 --> 00:57:26,880
and within the west shore road right
ofway. The project proposes two bay

635
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:33,839
laurel to 20 feet tall and matt rush
within a 20-inch tall concrete planter.

636
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:37,359
One thing uh commission for your
consideration I didn't address this in

637
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:44,240
this we didn't address this in the staff
report uh the laurel to 10 feet tall

638
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:49,440
typically uh hedges we we get neighbor
uh input for hedges that are uh 8 feet

639
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:54,640
or taller. on this project. We didn't
get those any any uh consideration from

640
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:57,640
neighbors. So, it's something for your
consideration.

641
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:06,880
Uh exterior lighting would include 10
recess down lights primarily at the uh

642
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:13,799
at the canal lever uh roof at the rear
of the house and 19 wall-mounted sconces

643
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,799
throughout the uh residence.

644
00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:19,839
The applicant requests a revocable
license to allow the existing driveway

645
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,640
and proposed landscaping to encroach
into the Westshore Roadway.

646
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:30,240
Uh the project if approved is exempt
from SQA

647
00:58:28,319 --> 00:58:35,760
and uh staff recommends that all the
design review findings can be made and

648
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:41,240
the recommendation for revocable license
and staff is happy to answer any

649
00:58:37,599 --> 00:58:41,240
questions you may have.

650
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:47,319
Thank you, Sammy. Do we have questions?

651
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:58,000
» Sammy.
>> Yes.

652
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:02,240
» Hi. Um, so, um, I I know that the the
plans that were waiting for us tonight

653
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:06,799
and that you emailed to us this
afternoon have changed in a number of

654
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:12,079
ways from the plans that we were looking
at when we when we did site visits. Can

655
00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:17,520
you just
sort of run down for us the the material

656
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:21,119
different the material differences in
the two sets of sets of plans just

657
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,119
because I for one that we're looking at
was looking at the old plans.

658
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:31,280
» Yeah. The
the uh

659
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:35,839
well the the changes that you have are
actually it's it's a clarification on

660
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:43,040
the plans that you guys received. the
planting legend says um has a a letter

661
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:48,240
and then on the plant itself it's shown
as a one uh for for some of the

662
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:53,520
plantings. So there there was and then
there's also I think an olive tree that

663
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:58,880
was proposed on the legend but it's not
shown on the plans. So the architect

664
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:03,680
fixed removed that and then also removed
the the correctly identified the mat

665
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:09,920
rush.
>> All right. Um I because I'm looking at a

666
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:16,640
2.4
and there it's not showing the two trees

667
01:00:13,359 --> 01:00:20,119
that are outside of the fence that you
just showed on

668
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:27,440
» 82.4.
>> Yeah.

669
01:00:24,319 --> 01:00:32,240
» If I could just jump in here. Thanks
>> sheet A1.0.

670
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:39,040
The adjacent property address was
corrected to read 49 West Shore. Sheet

671
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:43,760
A1.5. The floor area table has been
corrected to match the diagram. There

672
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:48,240
was a discrepancy there. Um, the project
is removing 91 square ft rather than 117

673
01:00:47,359 --> 01:00:52,640
square ft.
>> Okay.

674
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:56,880
» Um, A1.6. As Sammy said, the landscape
sheet has been corrected so that the

675
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:04,599
plant legend matches right there. there
were some number lettering issues that

676
01:00:59,359 --> 01:01:04,599
just didn't match there. Um

677
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:13,119
Sammy mentioned the fascia and then on
A3.1 there's an exterior lighting plan

678
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:17,520
that's been added. The applicant is
proposing 10 recess down lights and 19

679
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,520
wall-mounted
sconces.

680
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:37,119
I think we should get some clarification
from the architect on whether those 19

681
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:42,880
lights are all new. I suspect
>> they're replacing some as well as um

682
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:46,160
adding new ones, but let's let's get
clarification on that.

683
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:50,240
» Okay.
>> And Commissioner Watson, would you like

684
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:54,960
me to pull up the original plans and
what you received today on the on the

685
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:58,599
screen so we can compare them? No, it's
okay. Thank you.

686
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:09,920
» So, so do we know the u the status of of
49 that is it is it are are the owners

687
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:17,000
there the family who has been there or
the ones that are buying it or I can't

688
01:02:13,359 --> 01:02:17,000
keep track what's going

689
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:22,119
Actually,

690
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:38,720
if you could just hold off until
>> I don't need to know, but just

691
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:44,280
» when it's your turn, it would be great
if you could come to the mic and answer

692
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,280
that. Thank you so much.

693
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:54,200
And I don't know the status of 49. No, I
don't.

694
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:04,440
» Okay. Are there any other questions? Um,
with that, we can ask the applicant to

695
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:04,440
make a presentation if they like.

696
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:16,319
» Exactly. Okay. Can you guys hear me?
Okay. Hi, I'm Stacy Perry. This is my

697
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:22,880
husband, Matthew Perry. We've been on
West Shore since 2020, so almost six

698
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:27,839
years now. We started out renting and
loved it so much that we purchased the

699
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:31,599
home a few years ago. I met many of you
yesterday. So, thank you to the

700
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:37,760
commissioners for coming through the
house. And um we have a 21-year-old

701
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:41,760
daughter who's in college, so she's
still with us in the home.

702
01:03:40,799 --> 01:03:45,039
want to add anything?
>> No, it's perfect.

703
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:51,200
» Neighbors.
>> Okay, so um we have new neighbors at 47

704
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:57,920
Westshore and new neighbors at 40 I mean
at 45 because we're 47 and new neighbors

705
01:03:54,559 --> 01:04:04,319
at 49. We have met the new neighbors at
45. A lovely couple with a young

706
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:09,839
daughter. She's 11 and we have not yet
met our new neighbors at 49. So we do

707
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:13,760
not believe they have moved in yet. So,
we've tried several times to just knock

708
01:04:11,599 --> 01:04:18,839
on the door and introduce ourselves, but
they do not appear to be moved in.

709
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:26,640
» Do you want me to add anything on that?
The former owner at 49.

710
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:30,160
» You want me to? All right.
>> They were very aware of what's

711
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:34,799
happening. The new owners, I think, is
the real owner bought it from

712
01:04:32,559 --> 01:04:38,720
it.
>> Um, and my name is Steven Sutro. I'm the

713
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:42,880
architect for the project. Um, and I'll
walk you through a series of slides

714
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:47,160
explaining the design. Um, are you ready
to share? Are you sharing screen?

715
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:55,000
There we go.

716
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:04,000
And you flip to the next.
Okay. Um, thank you for the

717
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:07,119
presentation, Rebecca and Sammy. Um, so
as they said, the proposed project

718
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:10,160
involves the the remodel of the existing
single family home, including new

719
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:13,839
windows and doors, replacing the
existing siding, rear deck expansions,

720
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:19,760
and I'll explain a little bit more about
that. Um, updated landscaping, and minor

721
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:23,280
interior floor plan changes. Um, the
next slide here, um, the image on the

722
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,799
left shows the existing street facade
and the rendering on the right shows the

723
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:31,440
proposed with updated windows, new
siding, and updated landscaping. We

724
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:35,039
removed the eve as was as was mentioned
over the garage and modified it to be

725
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:40,000
tight around the structure removing a
portion of its non-conformance.

726
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:45,440
Um let's see at the bottom left of the
render um you can see the proposed

727
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:49,359
landscaping changes. Um the the fence um
is part of a separate permit but it's

728
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:55,200
interesting to the application in two
ways. One is it is um located like many

729
01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:59,920
are along west shore uh in fully in the
public right ofway and very tight to the

730
01:05:57,039 --> 01:06:04,720
sidewalk. And so we um work with staff
to um suggest pushing it back so that um

731
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:09,359
a pedestrian enjoys more landscaping.
And so the the public right of way or

732
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:12,799
the the um encroachment permit revocable
license kind of thing will be for

733
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:16,160
landscaping instead of that tall fence.
So the fence is moving back. Not part of

734
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:20,720
this application, but it's kind of a
part of the overall design. Likewise, um

735
01:06:18,799 --> 01:06:27,039
our survey showed us that the fence line
on both side property lines was

736
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:31,440
substantially um on Stacy and Matthew's
property by several feet in each

737
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:35,520
location, meaning 40 the neighbors on
each side were kind of enjoying the use

738
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:40,000
of several feet of Matthew and Stacy's
property historically. So, the fence

739
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:44,319
permit um which has been granted um
relocates the same height fence to a

740
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,960
location that is on the property line.
and that's been discussed with the

741
01:06:45,359 --> 01:06:51,599
neighbor that is present, not been
discussed with the one that is not. So,

742
01:06:49,839 --> 01:06:56,720
um, what we're doing in the newly found
swaths of land is is some landscaping

743
01:06:54,319 --> 01:07:01,280
and and expanding the existing surfaces
of the deck. We kind of mislabeled the

744
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:05,039
one that is on the side with the trash
and access alongside the the garage

745
01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:08,079
actually is going to be on the ground
and the deck is going to stop kind of

746
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:12,319
where it does now and we're going to
step down onto the ground. So, that's an

747
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:17,039
error on on our part. Um there are about
um nine uh sconces on the outside of the

748
01:07:14,799 --> 01:07:22,400
building today. So uh it's correct that
they're not all 19 or are new. Um but um

749
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:27,280
19 total is what we've suggested in the
lighting plan. They're downwardly cast

750
01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:32,880
very kind of minimal looking things. On
the water side of the uh property are

751
01:07:30,319 --> 01:07:36,640
some eve lights in the overhang um that
faces kind of like a a wash board or a

752
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:41,200
place where traditionally you can walk
and wash the windows that face the bay.

753
01:07:39,599 --> 01:07:44,799
Um, and so we're suggesting replacing
those large light fixtures with small

754
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:48,880
aperture ones and increasing the number
a little bit along that eve. Um, let's

755
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:53,359
see if I want to point out anything else
because I went off script. Um, the

756
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:59,920
material slide if you want to go to
that. Um, we're suggesting um kind of a

757
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:04,799
gray um stained siding. Um, this is from
Delta Mil Works. It's a nice Aoya um

758
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:10,960
heat treated product that is natural
100% natural wood that has been heat

759
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:15,440
treated for resistance to decay. Um and
in our previous project where we've

760
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:21,199
we've used this product, the the gray
does a nice job of um fading to gray as

761
01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:25,520
it weathers. Meaning kind of as the
stain erodess, as they all naturally do,

762
01:08:23,440 --> 01:08:29,679
it doesn't so much require restaining
because it's turning gray. The wood is

763
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:34,400
turning gray in the sun naturally. Um,
and then we're uh proposing kind of a

764
01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:39,679
dark bronze color on the sashes and and
trim. Um, natural concrete on the

765
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:44,440
planter and the underside of the sophet
in um a cyprress or cedar.

766
01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:53,560
I think that's Oh, unless I've missed
something. No. Okay. I'm here to answer

767
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:53,560
questions. Thank you.

768
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:59,080
Questions from commissioners.

769
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:06,400
I have a question about the lighting
plan. Um, sure. The image that's up

770
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:09,920
there now, those under the lights that
are under the overhang in the back. Is

771
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:13,520
that all part of the lighting plan?
Those exterior lights.

772
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:17,199
» Uh, so the lighting plan here shows the
little dots that are,

773
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:20,480
» you know, that's the overhang beyond the
living room. You can see the living room

774
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:24,159
furniture. So those little dots key into
the a recess outdoor rated outdoor

775
01:09:22,719 --> 01:09:28,719
fixture. Okay. And there are several
fixtures that are there. Maybe there are

776
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:32,480
six today. They're they're much larger.
So the idea is to to make smaller

777
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:36,040
aperture ones and increase the frequency
a bit.

778
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,040
» Okay.

779
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:49,040
» I have a a question and I'm I'm not sure
if it's it's maybe for both staff and

780
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:55,760
the applicant. Um, I noted you said that
the the fences are being moved at the

781
01:09:52,080 --> 01:10:00,480
same height that they are. And I I had
the impression that some of the fences

782
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:04,880
were taller than six feet.
>> And um I'm not even sure are the fences

783
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:10,159
part of this application. Let's start
with that. The fences are not part of

784
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:16,000
this application. So, um maybe this is
not pertinent, but um

785
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:20,159
I guess because we're thinking about
heights of planting related to neighbors

786
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:24,360
and neighbor conditions staff, do you
want to make any comment on that?

787
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:31,880
» The fencing is not part of this
application.

788
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,880
» Okay. Thank you for that clarification.

789
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:38,080
» So,
>> uh so I I I'm sorry. I think that you're

790
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:42,320
asking because it's Germaine for the
planting question that staff raised the

791
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:46,159
for the English laurel. The fence is
about 6'6 right now. It's a standard six

792
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:50,320
foot board, but it's set on top of a
horizontal runner. So, it's probably

793
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:54,000
6'6, 6' 5 and a half, something like
that. The new plan um that's not part of

794
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,760
the application, but Germaine to the
discussion of design is for it to be six

795
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:03,120
foot even.
>> Thank you for that.

796
01:11:00,159 --> 01:11:06,800
um including the portions that are
currently built up a little bit towards

797
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,800
49.
>> Yes.

798
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:25,360
» So So um just to be clear, the So the
the tub is going to be moving

799
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:30,080
um out toward the water past where the
fence line is. Yes.

800
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:34,800
And then there's
I guess three laurels then proposed to

801
01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:37,600
screen it
>> correct

802
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:42,000
» from and I can't you know I don't I
can't make the case for

803
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:46,320
49.
Um

804
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:52,239
I other than to observe that that's very
close to where they are. Yes. And that's

805
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:56,800
a exposed tub. And I if I were the
neighbor, I'd want those trees to be as

806
01:11:54,640 --> 01:12:02,880
mature as possible and as large as
possible when they went in. Um

807
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:08,360
uh
I might also Yeah, I won't go there. Um

808
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:17,360
um and that's it for right this moment.
Um, while we're talking about the hot

809
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:21,760
tub, where where is the mechanical going
to be for the hot tub?

810
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:26,320
» Um, it's integral. It's it's um it's a
diamond spa is the proposal which has it

811
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:29,440
all integrated into the square of the
cube.

812
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:32,880
» Yeah. No external. It's not like a a
swimming pool or that kind of thing

813
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:36,159
where there's extra equipment.
>> Matthew was just noting that there was a

814
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:41,280
very large tree that was recently
removed uh right there in that location

815
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:44,560
that you're discussing for privacy.
It was a beautiful tree. We woke up one

816
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,360
day.
>> That was a willow tree.

817
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:54,520
» Good on your on your side or their side?

818
01:12:54,960 --> 01:13:04,120
» But the fence was Yeah. Okay.
>> It was not removed by

819
01:13:00,239 --> 01:13:04,120
» got there. Yeah. Maybe unbeknownsted.

820
01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:16,480
Okay. No further. Do you have a
question?

821
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:21,360
» I have two questions. Um, how many scons
did you say uh you are adding?

822
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:24,159
» There are n eight or nine existing
>> and so

823
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:26,960
» and then now total how many?
>> 19. Do you want to go? We can go to the

824
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:31,920
site plan.
>> I'm counting 16. That's why I'm I heard

825
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:35,760
it said 19 but I'm counting 16. So I'm
wondering if there is something

826
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:40,800
somewhere I'm not seeing. So basically,
let me ask you this. On this street side

827
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:43,280
on this on San Rafael Avenue, is it just
three?

828
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:47,520
» Yes.
>> Beyond the fence?

829
01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:52,560
» Yes, it is just three.
>> Okay. So maybe you have 16. Um

830
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:57,600
» there two two flanking the garage and
then one kind of adjacent to gate.

831
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:04,640
» Okay. And then another question I had is
that at your entry you have two steps

832
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:09,679
going down um which on the new drawings
that you are showing the steps are gone.

833
01:14:07,199 --> 01:14:13,360
The arrow is still there. I wonder if it
is a

834
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:17,280
» yes I think. Mhm. The sconce note is
deflect or is uh covering up this stairs

835
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:21,600
that will remain there.
>> Stairs remain those steps remain.

836
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:24,880
» Those are near the front front door that
you

837
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:28,320
» Yeah. And is it a egress door? The entry
door.

838
01:14:25,679 --> 01:14:31,920
» The front door is an eress door. Yes.
>> So, don't you need a landing 36 inch in

839
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:36,520
front of it?
>> What will the landing be? Do you have a

840
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,520
floor plan?

841
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,159
» It's a good question.
>> So, you

842
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,880
» While she's pulling that up, this the
sconces that are around the sides,

843
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:46,320
they're kind of acting. We're not
deploying any other landscape lighting

844
01:14:44,719 --> 01:14:49,440
or flood lights. They're kind of acting
because they're lowlevel and downward

845
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,640
cast. It's kind of acting as the
navigation around all the sides. So,

846
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,679
they're definitely not meant to be
decorative sconces in the traditional

847
01:14:54,480 --> 01:14:59,199
sense of a sconce,
>> right?

848
01:14:56,239 --> 01:15:03,760
» Um,
no, I think you're pointing out a a a

849
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,239
flaw and that we might need to make sure
that there are 36 inches from the front

850
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:12,000
door to the step.
>> Yeah, basically then you will have less

851
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:16,400
um you're you're um going to have less
um what is it? Enclosure where you have

852
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,480
it. But planning wise, I have no issue
with it.

853
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:22,400
» Understand? Maybe we'll suggest shifting
the stair up. you probably have issues

854
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:25,360
later on, but um
>> thank you for the note.

855
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:40,800
and they uh I don't know if it's outside
design review purview or not which means

856
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:44,239
it probably is but but a um uh and I
can't and I can't take take credit for

857
01:15:42,719 --> 01:15:49,920
kind of drilling down on this but could
we talk for a minute about the uh the

858
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:55,199
FEMA substantial improvement threshold?
>> Yes, absolutely. So you've get you've

859
01:15:52,159 --> 01:16:00,320
you have the FEMA assessed value at 6
million or so and the pro the full

860
01:15:58,719 --> 01:16:06,640
project not just what we're looking at
today but the inside as well um totaling

861
01:16:03,679 --> 01:16:10,880
up pretty close to the halfway mark at
48%.

862
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:13,520
» So what's what's the thinking if there
you know there's there's a lot of moving

863
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,440
parts both inside
>> if the cost escalates or something like

864
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:21,120
that.
>> Yeah. So, how have you thought about how

865
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:27,120
you might phase it if you find that
something costs more than it you thought

866
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:32,800
originally? I mean,
>> sorry, that was loud. So, this we

867
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:37,600
certainly will scrutinize the numbers at
the time of building permit and we don't

868
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:41,760
like to issue building permits that are
at 48% um of the

869
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:49,120
» leaving room for contingency.
>> Yeah. Because we know things change in

870
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:53,840
construction. Um, so
it's certainly something to think about

871
01:16:51,040 --> 01:17:01,600
at the time of the planning approval or
submittal, but um, we certainly have a a

872
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:06,640
our building official is also the flood
plan administrator and so we will sit

873
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:10,960
down and crunch the numbers with the
architect. Um,

874
01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:15,199
» yeah, again I
>> sometimes things will get scaled back,

875
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:20,320
right? And so
It might be that they can't do the

876
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:24,320
entirety of the project. Um, and they'll
have to wait a year and then we're

877
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,800
keenly we're keenly aware.
>> Yeah. Great. Great. Just wanted to flag

878
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:30,719
it.
>> Yeah.

879
01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:35,360
» We we looked at the alternative of of
doing a larger project or or you know

880
01:17:33,679 --> 01:17:39,560
doing more and raising the raising the
house. Certainly.

881
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:51,320
» Okay.
Thank you. Are there any comments from

882
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:51,320
members of the public on this item?

883
01:17:52,880 --> 01:18:01,080
» There are no hands raised on
>> a non-controversial item apparently.

884
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,080
That's good.

885
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:12,400
Uh, I'll I'll uh bring this back uh
close the public hearing and um I'd like

886
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:16,800
to get the commissioners to share their
thoughts on it. Um, Miss Alda, would you

887
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:20,239
like to start the conversation this
time?

888
01:18:18,159 --> 01:18:25,440
» Sure. Um, I just want to thank the
applicant for the presentation and

889
01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:32,480
clarification on the lighting plan um,
and other features of the project. Um

890
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:38,640
um my comments are focused mostly on the
re revocable license. Um um yeah, the

891
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:43,360
the improvements uh won't block any
views. Um so I could find the findings

892
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:47,679
for that. Um and the landscaping will be
a nice addition and then um and the

893
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:52,640
revoke and then the correction of the
overhang is a is a good addition to the

894
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:55,640
project as well.
Thanks.

895
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:02,920
Thank you, Commissioner Jimai.
>> Um,

896
01:19:03,199 --> 01:19:12,560
uh, I can make the findings also for the
replacement of the windows, um,

897
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:18,640
extension of the deck. Um, lighting, um,
I have no issues with the lighting as

898
01:19:14,719 --> 01:19:22,960
long as there are just three on the, um,
west shore which are, uh, flanking the

899
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:30,239
garage and the entry. I think those are
necessary for the um visibility at

900
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:38,480
night. Um the landscaping and removal of
a um a pool I think would help the um

901
01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:42,560
community also the the landscaping would
show up on the west shore which people

902
01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:47,600
when they walk they would enjoy that and
also they are improving the um

903
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:53,760
landscaping on the city property which
is I think um a nice addition. I I I was

904
01:19:51,679 --> 01:20:02,719
um struggling a little bit with that
stone wall uh that is um proposed on the

905
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:11,640
city property. Um landscaping is great,
but I I was going back and forth that do

906
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:11,640
we need that um stone wall there and

907
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:19,600
what is the result? I I think layering
landscape is always beautiful like

908
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:23,920
having a taller and trees and shrubs and
all those combination makes it

909
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:28,080
attractive. Um and I think you were
maybe trying to do that with stone. I I

910
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:32,800
couldn't quite understand what was the
reasoning behind that design and and

911
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:38,239
just because it is on the city property
I also was wondering do we need and then

912
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:46,800
each applicant comes and might have a
new idea. Is that something that would

913
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:52,320
um overall improve the walking on the
sidewalk seeing different structures or

914
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:56,719
is it is it positive or negative? I I
wasn't I was struggling with that. Um I

915
01:20:54,640 --> 01:21:02,239
don't know what other commissioners
think about that. I couldn't also myself

916
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:06,719
decide if I
um how I feel about it. I I don't have a

917
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:12,640
negative
um I don't think it is a negative design

918
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:21,199
idea. I'm just thinking that is it good
to have different structures in city

919
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:27,679
property um or is it just landscaping to
to resolve it with landscaping?

920
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:32,920
I I wonder what others think on that. Um
the rest I I can make all the findings.

921
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:37,960
» Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Shinsky.

922
01:21:39,199 --> 01:21:48,000
» Yeah, certainly I don't um
uh uh blame you for wanting, you know,

923
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:53,840
first and foremost to get the property
lines where they need need to be. Um uh

924
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:58,960
that that seems long overdue. And if
part and parcel of that means uh getting

925
01:21:56,639 --> 01:22:04,080
rid of that boat trailer on the front
lawn, that would be appreciated as well.

926
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:07,760
Although that's not a condition. I I
think you know our our normal course

927
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:14,560
here is to have our chair kind of look
at the landscape plan at the end of the

928
01:22:10,639 --> 01:22:19,199
day um and approve that. And um I think
that would be one of the conditions here

929
01:22:16,639 --> 01:22:24,719
of course uh with kind of a a special
charge to you know the hot tub given

930
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:32,159
that it's kind of exposed there now that
that we do our best to whether the trees

931
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:37,679
are start out at 6 feet or 8 feet or 10
feet. Um you know I think taller and

932
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:41,520
fuller is kind of the order of the day
there just given the proximity to the

933
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:45,159
neighbors. Uh but beyond that, I should
be able to make the findings.

934
01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:53,760
» Commissioner Watson,
>> thanks. Um um like Olay, I also

935
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:58,639
struggled with the with the wall at the
at at the front. Um just because as uh

936
01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:03,600
well, I guess our neighbor who's who's
now who's now left said, uh you know, it

937
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:07,199
is a it is sort of a a tunnel a tunnel
type of type of feeling with having the

938
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:10,880
wall there. You know, obviously the wall
used to be there because it was a pool.

939
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:16,239
you know, you have to have a have a
solid high, you know, barrier to kids

940
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:20,960
climbing over and getting in your pool
and dying. Um,

941
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:27,679
but that that being that being said, I
don't have I don't have an issue with it

942
01:23:22,639 --> 01:23:35,280
as a as a as a design element itself. Um
I I do feel that both the lighting plan

943
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:44,719
and the landscape plan um probably need
um more more finaliz more finalization

944
01:23:39,679 --> 01:23:51,600
um especially since there are you know
depending under under numbers um either

945
01:23:48,159 --> 01:23:57,199
either 10 or eight new uh wall sconces
that are going to be added as well as a

946
01:23:54,239 --> 01:24:01,520
number of of of downward downward facing
Eve lights and as we just got the

947
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:06,560
lighting plan tonight, I don't I don't
think I'm in a position to approve the

948
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:13,600
either the lighting or the landscape
plan. And so I would propose that uh

949
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:20,000
both of those as well as the um the
evaluation of the 36 um inch uh front uh

950
01:24:17,679 --> 01:24:24,320
front step landing.
um

951
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:30,440
that a condition be added for each one
of those things to be approved by our

952
01:24:26,719 --> 01:24:30,440
esteemed chair.

953
01:24:33,679 --> 01:24:36,920
» Thank you.

954
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:44,960
Um I appreciate your presentation. And I
think this is

955
01:24:41,679 --> 01:24:49,679
a good update of of an existing house
that, you know, it's got a few years on

956
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:55,920
it, but it's got good bone structure.
Um, so I I approve of the installation

957
01:24:54,000 --> 01:25:00,880
of the new windows. I think the new
siding will be nice. The colors, things

958
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:03,920
look appropriate and in scale with the
neighborhood. You know, this really

959
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:10,159
isn't an expansion of the house, so
there's no issues there. Um, I'm

960
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:14,159
listening to my fellow commissioners.
Um, I think we're probably going to

961
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:19,040
condition this um for further review for
the landscape and lighting. Um, and I

962
01:25:16,239 --> 01:25:24,320
have to admit I don't fully from these
drawings I don't fully understand the

963
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:30,400
particularly the landscaping in front. I
understand the the tree plan, but um I

964
01:25:27,679 --> 01:25:35,440
want to be reviewing the scale and and
details of um particularly these things

965
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:41,440
that present themselves to the street,
and we'll we'll have an opportunity to

966
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:46,719
look at that in the future. So, um I'll
be able to make the findings in favor of

967
01:25:43,679 --> 01:25:52,679
this project with um with any conditions
that the planning commission cares to

968
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:52,679
attach to it.

969
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:13,040
So, we're ready um for someone to make a
motion.

970
01:26:10,639 --> 01:26:17,280
Could be this style word. Motion maker
to my right.

971
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:21,920
» It's the It's the problem of being the
lawyer on the on the commission. Um all

972
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:27,920
right. I'm going to I'm going to give
this give this give this a shot. Um All

973
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:32,239
right. I'd like to make a motion um that
the um the planning commission grants

974
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:37,120
approval of the design review applica
application to install new exterior

975
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:44,000
windows and doors, enlarge the rear yard
decks um and plant new landscaping at 47

976
01:26:41,199 --> 01:26:48,320
Westshore with the following um with the
conditions that are listed in the

977
01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:54,400
resolution plus adding uh the addition
these following additional uh conditions

978
01:26:51,760 --> 01:27:00,800
that the lighting and landscaping um
plans uh be uh be finalized with the

979
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:09,679
approval of the chair of the um of the
commission and that um a 36 in uh front

980
01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:15,320
uh front landing be in front of the be
in front of the front door if it is not

981
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,320
already there.

982
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:18,360
» Second.

983
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:25,239
» All in favor? Hi.
>> Hi.

984
01:27:22,239 --> 01:27:25,239
» Hi.

985
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:47,199
All right.
>> Sorry. We have a we have another another

986
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:51,760
motion 447 West Shore and it is to
recommend to the city council the

987
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:58,239
approval of a revocable license for
private improvements um located on the

988
01:27:54,320 --> 01:28:03,679
west shore right ofway at 47 West Shore.
>> Second.

989
01:27:59,679 --> 01:28:08,000
» Excuse me. I think the those low walls
are in the revocable license area. So,

990
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:12,560
I'm not quite sure if you're making a
recommendation to the city council on

991
01:28:10,639 --> 01:28:18,000
the revocable license that includes
those walls.

992
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:24,080
So, I just want to be clear on
where the commission stands

993
01:28:21,679 --> 01:28:27,600
and maybe they'll come back with a
revised landscape plan and the walls

994
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,600
will be
>> that that

995
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:32,639
» determined the location will be
determined at that point. But I just

996
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:36,639
want to
>> that was that was that that was what I

997
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:40,159
had it
>> and I hadn't really thought about it in

998
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:44,080
terms of impacting the revocable license
as well. But it is in the city.

999
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:48,159
» Yeah. I guess I'm just not clear on
where the commission stands on those

1000
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:55,440
walls. Like are you waiting for the
applicant to revise the plans to perhaps

1001
01:28:52,159 --> 01:29:00,000
keep the walls in the right of way or
>> I I just would like some clarity so when

1002
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:05,040
we bring it to council we kind of
understand where the commission

1003
01:29:02,719 --> 01:29:08,159
» stands or are we relying on the chair to
make that determination which is fine

1004
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:14,560
too.
city has no requirement in that sense to

1005
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:19,199
have or not have this type of uh
specifically just for design. I think it

1006
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:24,080
is just for um aesthetic they are
putting it. There is no reason for it.

1007
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:27,840
» Yeah. And we have
if my memory served me correct we have a

1008
01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:29,120
lot of improvements in the rightway on
West Shore.

1009
01:29:28,719 --> 01:29:33,360
» Yes.
>> Does that do low walls does that mean

1010
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:38,960
that we're going to improve new ones? I
don't know. I mean that's you know our

1011
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:44,159
sort of um philosophy now is to get
everything out of the right of way.

1012
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:52,320
So
>> we don't have set know how

1013
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:57,199
far into the right of way the wall is by
any chance. I'm just trying to get a

1014
01:29:54,159 --> 01:30:00,000
sense of
>> I don't but

1015
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:03,520
» I could reopen the public hearing for a
moment. It might help the other

1016
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:05,280
commissioners to have a better sense of
what this wall is.

1017
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:09,520
» Yeah.
>> So, um I'd like to reopen the public

1018
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:14,960
hearing and if the applicant could just
give us a little more information

1019
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:17,960
regarding the height and location of the
wall.

1020
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:30,159
» Yeah. And and I've asked for the height
of I mean it could just be like a

1021
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:32,960
decorative curb, right? not necessarily
what we're thinking of as a retain.

1022
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:36,159
» Yeah, that's and that
>> there's nothing to retain.

1023
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:39,199
» I was looking for it in the elevations
and I didn't really see it. So that's

1024
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:41,920
why I
>> Sorry to make this.

1025
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:48,320
» Yeah, sorry. It's okay.
>> There's also no dimension showing um how

1026
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:53,040
wide it is. So
it should I mean if it goes to city

1027
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:57,400
council, it should show what is the
dimension of the of the

1028
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:03,840
» One second here. We're just starting to
pull it up. Um, if there's any specific

1029
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:07,760
guidance that you all would like to
give, that would be fine. And also, we

1030
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:11,600
will be submitting a revised plan to
illustrate more in 3D and with

1031
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:17,120
dimensions so that the chair can can
advise us. So, we're happy with either

1032
01:31:13,679 --> 01:31:21,040
specific advice now or andor review by
the chair. But the um we're trying to

1033
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:24,040
get the dimension for you. Sorry, hold
on.

1034
01:31:36,639 --> 01:31:43,360
All right. So, um I I don't know if it's
Jermaine or you want to hear this, but

1035
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:47,840
the the the low wall is approximately 2
feet encroached from the property line

1036
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:54,080
into the public right of way. The old
fence that is permitted to be altered

1037
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:57,840
was 6 feet encroachment at 6 ft high.
Um, and so if that helps answer the

1038
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:00,639
question, but again, we're not really
looking for you to stamp that right now.

1039
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:04,159
We understand you'd like more
illustration, maybe some examples to

1040
01:32:02,159 --> 01:32:07,760
show what's what's along Westshore Road
and see if this is contextually

1041
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:11,679
appropriate. So, we fully expect to
study it ourselves, submit something,

1042
01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:14,239
and have either a dialogue about it or
get feedback from.

1043
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:19,679
» Yeah. And again, I wasn't sure if I
caught, but um, how how tall do you

1044
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:23,520
visualize it?
>> 18 inches is what's illustrated, but

1045
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:27,679
maybe not properly noted anywhere. Not
sure, but that was it's a planter, I

1046
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:30,560
guess. It's not It does not need to be
there because it's not retaining

1047
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:34,080
anything. It's not important to Matthew
and Stacy. So,

1048
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:37,199
» we'll try to figure out what's best. And
>> all

1049
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:40,639
» Yeah. But but I think the idea from a
design perspective, not to belittle, it

1050
01:32:39,199 --> 01:32:44,400
was to was to have kind of multiple
tiers so that it looked kind of pretty,

1051
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:49,040
that it wasn't just a flat flat piece
where dogs go, you know.

1052
01:32:46,719 --> 01:32:54,800
» Okay. Thank you. I I think that's um
helpful. So,

1053
01:32:51,199 --> 01:33:00,880
um, with that, I guess the the question
is, um, are is the, um, commission

1054
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:08,520
comfortable
granting the recommendation on the

1055
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:08,520
revocable license at this point? Um,

1056
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:29,920
I I mean I I haven't commented yet, so I
guess I I guess I did comment, but um

1057
01:33:24,719 --> 01:33:34,960
regarding um this I guess I'm I'm okay
uh granting the revocable license in

1058
01:33:32,639 --> 01:33:42,000
that they're they're increasing the
setback of this streetside element by 4

1059
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:46,080
feet. Um, and they're reducing the
height. So, it's more of a landscape

1060
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:51,040
element and it
>> it may not be the final version. You

1061
01:33:48,639 --> 01:33:57,040
know, they they may reconsider it, but I
think it's an improvement from what's

1062
01:33:53,840 --> 01:34:01,199
there now. So, um,
I could probably go with the granting

1063
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:05,520
the revocable license,
>> right? I'm I'm I'm fine with the

1064
01:34:03,199 --> 01:34:08,800
recommendation for the revocable license
subject to to the finalization of the

1065
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:11,800
landscaping plans.
>> Okay.

1066
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:18,639
So, um let's see. Did is that a motion?
>> Yeah, excuse me. My apologies. I don't

1067
01:34:17,199 --> 01:34:22,320
want to necessarily drag this out, but I
think the motion needs to be with the

1068
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:26,239
understanding of what the proposal is,
which is what the chair just described.

1069
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:29,840
And obviously it may change by the time
it goes to council, but at least just to

1070
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:33,679
Rebecca's earlier point, it's just
helpful for us to know when this does go

1071
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:37,840
to council what the planning commission
is in support of. So just to be clear

1072
01:34:36,159 --> 01:34:42,239
for the record, we are addressing the
planters as described by the architect

1073
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:45,760
approximately 18 inches in height,
approximately two feet into the

1074
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:48,719
rightway. Maybe that will change, maybe
it won't, but at least that's the

1075
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:52,639
starting point.
>> And material, does it need to be to

1076
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:56,159
include the material what it is? If that
if that is pertinent to the the motion

1077
01:34:54,480 --> 01:35:02,639
made by the commission, yes, you can
incorporate it or ask about it.

1078
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:07,920
» And what is the material?
>> It's shown on the material sheets as

1079
01:35:04,159 --> 01:35:12,080
concrete. Um but um we're happy again to
submit it, I don't know, very

1080
01:35:09,679 --> 01:35:16,880
specifically in detail. submit it to the
chair and receive feedback and and

1081
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:22,000
collaborate on whatever ends up going to
council, including being a flat space

1082
01:35:18,639 --> 01:35:26,840
with no planter or a planter with, you
know, Cortan or bronze or some other

1083
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:26,840
material.

1084
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:41,280
Right. So, I'm going to give a shot at
this at this this one. All right.

1085
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:44,639
All right. Um, I'm proposing a motion to
recommend to the city council the

1086
01:35:42,639 --> 01:35:50,320
approval of a revocable license for
private improvements located um in the

1087
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:58,400
Westshore right of way at 47 Westore
Drive. Um, showing the

1088
01:35:54,480 --> 01:36:03,840
current approximately 18inch high
uh planters that are encroaching about 2

1089
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:08,159
feet into the city rightway. In all
cases, subject to finalization of the

1090
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:11,159
landscaping plan as approved by the
chair.

1091
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:22,239
I need a second.
>> Second.

1092
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:27,120
» All in favor?
>> I I

1093
01:36:24,480 --> 01:36:31,000
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1094
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:31,000
» Thank you.

1095
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:50,320
We will now move on to the final item of
the e evening, item five, design review

1096
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:55,440
for new skylights, a patio door, and a
roof deck at 140 San Rafll Avenue. Can I

1097
01:36:53,199 --> 01:36:59,280
have a staff report, please? Um before
the staff report, I'd just like to

1098
01:36:56,960 --> 01:37:02,960
mention and thank Commissioner Wilson
for being here and she um lives within

1099
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:06,960
500 ft of this
>> property, so she'll need to recuse.

1100
01:37:05,199 --> 01:37:11,400
» Thank you.
>> Thanks. Thank you for joining us.

1101
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:32,600
Thank you, Chair Cidle.

1102
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:59,199
Thank you, Chair Cidle and members of
the planning commission. Uh for your

1103
01:37:57,679 --> 01:38:03,760
consideration this evening is an
application for design review to install

1104
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:09,040
a second story deck, skylights, and
exterior doors and windows at 140

1105
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:14,880
Sanfell Avenue.
The subject property is 8,200 square f

1106
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:19,199
feet and contains a 3600 foot two-story
residence with attached garage. The site

1107
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:23,760
is relatively flat and about single
family residences to the north and

1108
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:30,880
south, Belvier Lagoon to the east, and
Richardson Bay to the west. The site is

1109
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:35,199
accessible via San Rafale Avenue.
The project proposes to construct a 300

1110
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:39,199
square foot deck on the existing
firststory roof located on the southern

1111
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:43,280
side of the residence.
The deck will be set back 10 ft from the

1112
01:38:41,119 --> 01:38:47,280
sideyard property line and 49 ft from
the rear yard deck.

1113
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:52,080
The southern side of the roof deck will
be lined

1114
01:38:50,239 --> 01:38:58,000
with three planter boxes to provide
privacy screening from the adjacent

1115
01:38:53,600 --> 01:39:03,440
neighbor at 150 Sanfell Avenue.
Additional improvements include four new

1116
01:38:59,840 --> 01:39:09,600
skylights, each 2 feet 10 in by 2 feet
10 in, as well as replacement of

1117
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:09,600
existing windows and doors.

1118
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:17,199
The roof deck would stand 9 ft 3 in
above existing grade. The new wood deck

1119
01:39:14,639 --> 01:39:20,520
would be bordered by 3'6 in tall glass
guard rail.

1120
01:39:21,119 --> 01:39:28,080
The project proposes to replace an
existing 6'6 in tall by 13t 6 in wide

1121
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:35,920
door
with a 7'6 in tall by 19t 1in wide glass

1122
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:42,880
door. window glazing glazing facing the
lagoon would increase 92 square feet for

1123
01:39:38,480 --> 01:39:49,199
a total glazing area of 289 square feet.
Um a 2025 design review approval

1124
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:53,840
uh included the removal of clear story
windows at the rear yard which uh

1125
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:56,840
further reduced total glazing facing the
lagoon.

1126
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:04,000
Staff has received one letter of support
from the south adjacent property at 150

1127
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:08,159
Sanfell Avenue
and one letter from the north adjacent

1128
01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:13,280
neighbor at 130 Sanfell Avenue
requesting that two exterior sconces on

1129
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:17,679
the left side yard be removed or
replaced uh due to the fixtures

1130
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:23,639
brightness. The arct architect has
indicated that the owner would be happy

1131
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:23,639
to remove these fixtures.

1132
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:31,199
The project is exempt from squa.
And for context, applications for roof

1133
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:36,560
decks are not common in the city of
Belvier. However, they have come up more

1134
01:40:33,679 --> 01:40:41,520
in the past few years. In 2025, the
commission granted approval of a 125

1135
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:46,719
foot roof deck at the adjacent property
at 130 San Rafll Avenue. And there is

1136
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:51,600
one roof deck located at 152 Bella
Vista. Uh, with that, staff uh,

1137
01:40:49,679 --> 01:40:56,679
recommends approval of this application
and is happy to answer any questions you

1138
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:56,679
may have.

1139
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:14,239
I I have a sort of a context question,
Sammy. Um,

1140
01:41:10,719 --> 01:41:20,960
are we are you aware of other roof
decks, you know, of roughly this size in

1141
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:25,560
the lagoon area,
or is this more of an outlier?

1142
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,520
Well,

1143
01:41:30,639 --> 01:41:38,239
I mean, the adjacent neighbor last year
proposed the roof deck at the front and

1144
01:41:36,480 --> 01:41:42,639
the roof deck at the rear, and I believe
the roof deck at the rear was um

1145
01:41:41,199 --> 01:41:51,119
shrunken,
>> right? Um there's a a in the past,

1146
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:55,679
you know, typically people ask for more
sort of like Juliet balconies right off

1147
01:41:53,360 --> 01:42:01,440
of their master bedroom or primary
bedroom, you know, facing the water. Um

1148
01:41:59,119 --> 01:42:06,480
the the largest roof deck that I know of
is at 152 Bella Vista. Um and you can

1149
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:11,440
kind of see it when you're down on Beach
Road. They have a lot of or they have

1150
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:18,480
orange umbrellas. Um, but on the lagoon
I can't think of uh

1151
01:42:15,119 --> 01:42:21,280
any other ones.
>> Okay, that's

1152
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:25,440
» but I could be wrong. You know,
>> I know that's why I asked the question.

1153
01:42:23,440 --> 01:42:30,320
I was trying to
>> do the same exercise and I didn't come

1154
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:36,080
up with too much. I
>> um I checked with Sammy prior to the

1155
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:42,480
hearing. I think that the the roof deck
that we approved at 130 San Rafll last

1156
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:47,760
year um was 125 ft
>> at the end of the day. Um

1157
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:52,159
so a little smaller. Um so I was just
sort of trying to contextualize

1158
01:42:50,560 --> 01:42:56,040
that issue. So that that was my
question. Thank you.

1159
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,360
» Any other questions?

1160
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:07,840
Just one other note about this one in
particular. You know, the the one at 130

1161
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:11,920
was at the rear of the property that
faced out onto the water. This one sort

1162
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:15,440
of tucked more into the side, which we
haven't seen in the past, at least in

1163
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:20,560
the past couple years.
>> Right.

1164
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:25,639
Okay. If there's no further questions,
if the applicant is here and would like

1165
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:25,639
to speak.

1166
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:37,760
Hello, my name is Brian Fox. Uh I'm the
architect for the project. Uh here with

1167
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:40,639
the owner, Kim. Um so thank you very
much for your time. Thank you for the

1168
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:47,920
site visits. Thanks Sammy for the
presentation. Um, I think that the the

1169
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:52,159
project is fairly well understood and
I'd probably limit my remarks just to

1170
01:43:49,679 --> 01:43:58,639
talk about the roof deck in particular.
Um, just there are, I think, unique

1171
01:43:55,600 --> 01:44:02,560
things about this site that may not have
been the case to the neighbor on the

1172
01:44:00,639 --> 01:44:06,639
north or maybe some of the other roof
deck proposals that you've seen. One of

1173
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:12,159
them definitely is the setback from the
lagoon. We're almost 50 feet from the

1174
01:44:09,119 --> 01:44:16,400
from the water line. Um, and the view
out the back is pretty limited by the

1175
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:20,880
two-story part of the building and the
mature trees on the south side. So, the

1176
01:44:19,199 --> 01:44:24,480
experience, I think, of being up there
really is almost more about being on the

1177
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:28,239
west side looking towards Tam than
really experiencing the lagoon in a kind

1178
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:33,760
of immediate way. And when you're back
on the deck and it back on the lagoon,

1179
01:44:30,639 --> 01:44:38,400
you don't really feel that deck as
being, you know, funnally present, I

1180
01:44:36,719 --> 01:44:43,520
think, the way that you you would if it
was on the front of the house. Um the

1181
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:48,239
other kind of unique things that um are
present here are that we don't have any

1182
01:44:45,679 --> 01:44:52,719
neighbors to the east and the west being
on the long end of the lagoon. To the

1183
01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:58,960
east we don't really face anybody on the
west obviously Richardson Bay no houses.

1184
01:44:55,600 --> 01:45:02,639
Uh the twotory um part of the building
fully shields the roof deck from the

1185
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:06,880
north side and on the south side where
we are proximate to the neighbor we have

1186
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:09,840
support uh and very few windows on that
side. there's trees growing up and

1187
01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:14,400
there's an agreement between Kim and
that neighbor to do privacy screening.

1188
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:20,080
Um, Commissioner Watson this morning
asked a good question that, you know, we

1189
01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:26,639
proposed planters and a a hedge there as
the privacy screen. Plants can die,

1190
01:45:22,639 --> 01:45:32,639
people can move pots around. Um, Kim has
indicated she's definitely open towards

1191
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:37,040
a more structured fence type of screen
if if uh that is preferred um by the

1192
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:42,080
commission. And that's something that
could be I think worked out um as the

1193
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:47,040
details are are uh proposed in the
building permit.

1194
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:52,960
Thank you. Open for questions.
>> Thank you.

1195
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:58,639
» I have a question for you. Um the um the
pitch roof uh on the west side of the

1196
01:45:57,040 --> 01:46:04,480
proposed deck,
>> how high is it from the wherever you

1197
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:09,440
have a reference from the ground or from
the deck? I want to see what is I want

1198
01:46:06,639 --> 01:46:15,040
to find out the relevance to the to the
um to the deck the height of that but um

1199
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:18,480
on your elevation I mean any reference
you have

1200
01:46:16,239 --> 01:46:23,360
» yeah the the the roof deck walking
service would be elevated slightly from

1201
01:46:20,480 --> 01:46:28,719
the roof itself for for drainage and the
peak of that roof is about a little

1202
01:46:26,480 --> 01:46:33,199
under 36 inches from the walking surface
of the roof. So, if we have a 42inch

1203
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:39,920
railing on the roof deck, it's going to
be slightly proud of that peak. Um, so

1204
01:46:37,679 --> 01:46:42,960
visible perhaps from the the dirt path
on the other side of the road, but not

1205
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:46,480
from the street or the sidewalk as you
get closer to the house.

1206
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:50,320
» Thank you.
>> Um, when I was there this morning, I

1207
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:54,960
took some I took some photos both
standing on the sidewalk right in front

1208
01:46:52,159 --> 01:46:59,920
of the house and then also um standing
across the across the street. Um, and I

1209
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:05,679
do believe that across the street, you'd
be able to see the top of the glass of

1210
01:47:02,480 --> 01:47:10,480
the glass railing, but um, in on the
sidewalk in front of in front of the

1211
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:13,440
street, unless you're about 6'8, which I
don't think many of our residents are, I

1212
01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:16,960
don't think you'd be able to see the
glass railing.

1213
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:21,119
» And that proposed railing is glass. It
will have a a thin top cap by code. It's

1214
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:27,080
required, but the idea will be to have
it be as transparent as possible.

1215
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:27,080
» Thank you.

1216
01:47:30,719 --> 01:47:35,239
Does anyone else have any further
questions?

1217
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:46,400
» Um, can you can you just address the uh
the two sconces that Sammy uh referenced

1218
01:47:43,119 --> 01:47:50,080
in the in the report and are those going
to get removed?

1219
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:56,159
» The the I understand that the the bulbs
have already been taken out of those two

1220
01:47:51,920 --> 01:48:00,159
lights. Uh and yes, Kim is willing to
install sconces that are dark sky

1221
01:47:57,920 --> 01:48:05,080
compliant that shine down that won't be
a nuisance to the neighbor.

1222
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:05,080
» Great. Thank you.

1223
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:19,440
» All right. Um, are there any comments
from members of the public present or on

1224
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:24,679
Zoom?
>> No hands raised on Zoom.

1225
01:48:21,679 --> 01:48:24,679
» Okay.

1226
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:33,080
With that, I will bring this item back
to the commission for discussion.

1227
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:41,920
Commissioner Jim, why don't you start?
>> Sure. Um,

1228
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:47,280
as far as the skylight and the exterior
openings, um, I think they are all fine.

1229
01:48:44,719 --> 01:48:53,199
Um, I don't see any issues with those.
Um

1230
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:58,080
uh I think they lost a view from one of
the skylights when another proposal

1231
01:48:55,360 --> 01:49:03,760
came. So I think these two would um give
them more light into the living room. So

1232
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:10,320
I think those are uh fine. And then the
rear uh window also I think it's aligned

1233
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:16,239
with any other um house uh on the lagoon
that they get the view to the um lagoon.

1234
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:22,480
I don't have any issues with that on the
roof deck. Um what I'm um struggling

1235
01:49:19,679 --> 01:49:28,480
with is from the San Rafael Avenue
actually when you from the lagoon I

1236
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:32,760
think it is fine. Um it's back it's um
more of a um

1237
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:41,760
casual I would say um you you expect
more of a casual view to the house from

1238
01:49:38,800 --> 01:49:47,440
that side which this roof deck um will
provide. But on the San Rafael Avenue, I

1239
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:53,760
think um we have all the houses there
have a relatively formal look. And this

1240
01:49:51,840 --> 01:50:02,960
um
roof deck will add a kind of a um

1241
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:11,679
gathering area um um party look with the
umbrellas and um would would basically

1242
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:18,800
reduce the formal um facade of the
houses on Santa Avenue. So I would say

1243
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:25,199
um if
some sort of the same sort of um

1244
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:29,920
landscaping that is added to provide
privacy for the next door neighbor if it

1245
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:34,639
is provided on the other side of the
where the roof is the roof that I was

1246
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:39,760
asking you that is 36 in. If the same
type of landscaping will be provided

1247
01:50:37,199 --> 01:50:44,000
there, not as tall as the other one
perhaps because I understand you want

1248
01:50:41,679 --> 01:50:48,880
that roof deck to get the view from both
sides that those view from both side

1249
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:54,960
sides are amazing. I think you should
enjoy that. Um but if some sort of

1250
01:50:51,679 --> 01:51:00,000
landscaping be introduced there, I think
would soften it a little bit even if not

1251
01:50:57,679 --> 01:51:06,159
as high so you can still see the view.
But it is a little kind of a landscaping

1252
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:12,719
that soften it and give a little bit
more formal um look to it. And as you

1253
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:19,840
introduce that landscaping, you
basically limit the area of the deck,

1254
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:25,280
which would basically prevent people to
go so close to it and then it basically

1255
01:51:23,119 --> 01:51:29,360
what um Jenna was referring to when
you're on the other side and you can see

1256
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:36,239
whatever is happening there, you can see
less of it. Um, and I think that would

1257
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:41,280
be an improvement um to to that and I I
don't think it would be a negative thing

1258
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:46,719
also because the square footage of it is
relatively large comparing to where it

1259
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:53,280
ser services you know the the bedrooms
and the hallway and all that if you

1260
01:51:49,679 --> 01:52:01,440
reduce like 2 feet adding whatever it is
um that that um planters if it is being

1261
01:51:56,960 --> 01:52:07,520
introduced there I think it would um
it would help with the formality of the

1262
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:14,320
houses on San Rafale Avenue and um and I
think on your end also because the roof

1263
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:20,159
and um the the distance from the roof to
the to where you are putting your uh

1264
01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:25,280
glass railing is not that attractive by
putting the um landscaping on your end.

1265
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:32,239
You you wouldn't look at that either.
So, um, I think it might be a win-win

1266
01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:37,679
situation. That is all comments I have
on the deck.

1267
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:43,280
» Thank you, Commissioner Shinsky.
>> Yeah, I would just add that putting some

1268
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:51,119
uh uh landscaping along the that edge of
the deck um might help hide the the rain

1269
01:52:48,239 --> 01:52:56,000
gutters and that conduit that runs along
there. So, it might be better from your

1270
01:52:53,119 --> 01:53:01,199
standpoint too as well. Um otherwise so
I you know as for the uh Commissioner J

1271
01:52:59,440 --> 01:53:04,400
was saying you know I'm just kind of
thinking about formality versus

1272
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:08,960
informality
and you know kind of the tension there.

1273
01:53:06,639 --> 01:53:14,560
Obviously Belvadier was founded as sort
of a recreational but very high-end

1274
01:53:11,920 --> 01:53:20,159
formal recreational town. Uh so I don't
know quite what that means now. Um the

1275
01:53:17,679 --> 01:53:28,000
but overall I think the size of the deck
is is uh fits the spot. The fact that um

1276
01:53:25,199 --> 01:53:31,119
uh the neighbors at 150 are all fine
with it obviously is very important. Now

1277
01:53:29,760 --> 01:53:35,360
they don't have a lot of windows there
which probably helps them be fine with

1278
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:39,440
it. Um
uh but obviously the the screening there

1279
01:53:37,280 --> 01:53:45,040
is appropriate. The other thought of
course is as you mentioned is the you

1280
01:53:41,440 --> 01:53:49,599
know the the you know area of glazing is
being increased obviously that's out

1281
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:57,199
we're looking toward the lagoon although
it is halfway up the property or or from

1282
01:53:53,040 --> 01:54:02,560
from from the lagoon itself. Um and also
the the the

1283
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:06,480
clear story on the other section has
been foregone. So there's a little

1284
01:54:04,159 --> 01:54:11,679
coming back that way. Um, and you know,
particularly in relative to as you look

1285
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:16,480
around the lagoon to see who has equal
kind of configurations that are actually

1286
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:21,280
fairly close to the lagoon itself, uh,
it'd be hard to say that that is

1287
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:25,760
something that others don't enjoy. Um,
so no problem there, but I I'm inclined

1288
01:54:23,679 --> 01:54:32,520
to agree with Commissioner J about the
landscaping along uh the west side of

1289
01:54:28,639 --> 01:54:32,520
that deck.

1290
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:37,960
Thanks Jenna.

1291
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:48,400
» Thanks very much. Um
so I too with with respect to the sorry

1292
01:54:45,440 --> 01:54:54,400
this is really large plans. Um with
respect to the with respect to the

1293
01:54:50,000 --> 01:55:00,080
glazing, um I agree that um having the
addition having the additional um large

1294
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:05,840
large doors and the increase in glazing
um about 50 ft away from away from the

1295
01:55:02,639 --> 01:55:11,360
water um really does make a make a
difference in my in my determination.

1296
01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:16,560
Um, and had there been um an increase in
the glazing at the end of the bedroom

1297
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:22,560
where it was where it was closest um I
would I would would have had would have

1298
01:55:18,400 --> 01:55:28,639
had an issue. Um similarly, you know, I
um I struggle with the idea of a roof of

1299
01:55:26,239 --> 01:55:32,719
a roof deck sort of overlook overlooking
the lagoon. Um, as I think of most

1300
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:37,679
people who live on the lagoon can
appreciate, it is it is rather rather a

1301
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:42,880
fishbowl. And no one wants their
neighbors looking looking down upon

1302
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:47,920
them, looking down into their yards. Um,
or, you know, otherwise sort of having a

1303
01:55:45,679 --> 01:55:55,679
having an outdoor an outdoor presence
like right right there. Um, I do think

1304
01:55:52,239 --> 01:56:00,719
what distinguishes this this roof deck
is the fact that it is it is set it is

1305
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:04,880
set back in the middle of the in the
middle of the lot. And to distinguish it

1306
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:10,159
from the um from the one that we
discussed last year at the neighboring

1307
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:14,239
property, um it is, you know, where
where it's where it's situated closest

1308
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:20,000
to its neighbors. There are not
corresponding windows at that at that at

1309
01:56:17,199 --> 01:56:26,480
that neighbor. um end the um the
agreement to have um to have screening.

1310
01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:33,040
Um I actually do think that some kind of
um more more permanent screening

1311
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:38,320
um not just not just planter planter
boxes would be uh would be would be

1312
01:56:36,159 --> 01:56:43,360
preferable. Um first of all it takes up
le takes up less space and second of all

1313
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:47,199
um it is a more more permanent uh
screening screening solution for the na

1314
01:56:45,119 --> 01:56:52,239
for the neighbor. Um, and I also like
your like your suggestion for the uh for

1315
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:59,760
the for the front for the front side.
I'll call the or the streets street

1316
01:56:55,199 --> 01:57:03,280
side. Um, while I don't object to having
um sort of a you know a thin a thin

1317
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:07,920
railing of glass, I think you probably
wouldn't necessarily

1318
01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:12,520
um wouldn't ne wouldn't necessarily see
it. I do think that it would be

1319
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:20,320
more more more attractive and more and
more and more natur and more natural

1320
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:25,199
looking up there. Um, with respect to
the uh the skylights, I don't have any

1321
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:28,719
issue with the skylights. Um, they're
going to be clear and I think that

1322
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:33,599
they're um that they're going to add a
lot of a lot of light into the living

1323
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:38,159
room which is surpris surprisingly dark.
So with that, I think I can make all I

1324
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:43,280
can make all the findings. Um, one thing
I do want to highlight for the staff is

1325
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:49,360
um,
my thinking on on roof decks in general

1326
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:52,360
towards the lagoon has not changed.
Um,

1327
01:57:55,119 --> 01:58:03,920
um, what um, did you mention, Jenna,
that you wanted to see more permanent

1328
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:08,320
solution? What kind of
you mean? Um

1329
01:58:06,320 --> 01:58:12,560
so what what we had what we had
discussed um for the ne for the

1330
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:19,199
neighboring property was having some
kind of wire lattice or something of

1331
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:24,080
something that was more
uh something that was more architectural

1332
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:29,440
in term in terms of in terms of in terms
of in terms of a screen rather than

1333
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:37,560
planter boxes into which there would be
uh bushes or other rather sort of lower

1334
01:58:34,159 --> 01:58:37,560
types of greenery.

1335
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:51,599
» I concur with a lot of the comments of
my fellow commissioners. I won't repeat

1336
01:58:49,119 --> 01:58:57,119
them all, but um you know, I think the
expansion of glazing in particular is

1337
01:58:54,480 --> 01:59:03,520
very acceptable in the places that
you've proposed it set back from the

1338
01:58:58,880 --> 01:59:13,040
water. Skylights I'm okay with. Um, so
that brings me to the roof deck and I

1339
01:59:08,159 --> 01:59:20,400
guess I just want to exercise caution
here on the subject of roof decks on the

1340
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:25,840
lagoon. Um, I think what I'm hearing the
the consensus here and I I actually

1341
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:32,480
share it is that
this is a one-off kind of a unique

1342
01:59:28,560 --> 01:59:39,840
situation where the proposed roof deck
really does appears to have reduced

1343
01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:48,480
impact on neighboring properties and um
visual um impact from public locations.

1344
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:55,599
I I actually appreciate very much
Aellay's suggestion about the screen

1345
01:59:52,159 --> 02:00:00,480
planting across the um San Rafale side
of the deck. I think you know our

1346
01:59:58,719 --> 02:00:05,360
proposal would be that that happen
within the proposed footprint of the

1347
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:10,880
existing deck, not not an expansion of
the footprint.

1348
02:00:07,119 --> 02:00:17,360
Um, I also hear and we'll work out the
conditions here, you know, that there

1349
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:24,560
can be a more permanent architectural
aspect to the uh screen on the south

1350
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:30,560
side facing the neighbor. Um, and you
know, if if it's the consensus of my

1351
02:00:27,360 --> 02:00:35,440
fellow commissioners, I'm happy to, you
know, do the normal landscape review,

1352
02:00:33,199 --> 02:00:40,719
make those elements subject to future
review because I actually think that

1353
02:00:37,679 --> 02:00:46,239
particularly this I think that we'd like
to maintain the planting on those two

1354
02:00:43,119 --> 02:00:51,119
sides as well as whatever this more
permanent feature is. And what that

1355
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:55,840
exact configuration is is kind of
important to figure out at the end of

1356
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:59,920
the day. We don't have it before us now,
but I think we can work that out going

1357
02:00:58,239 --> 02:01:10,080
forward.
>> Alex, could the railing be um inside the

1358
02:01:06,239 --> 02:01:16,560
um planters? Basically the the plant
move the railings inward

1359
02:01:13,440 --> 02:01:21,920
to inward the deck and then put the
planters outside of it because as they

1360
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:28,800
mentioned themselves, people move the
the um landscaping or or planters or but

1361
02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:32,080
the uh permanent uh railing remains
where it is and then

1362
02:01:30,639 --> 02:01:35,360
» I actually think that's better because
how else are they going to clean their

1363
02:01:33,599 --> 02:01:38,800
glass?
I mean, if the if the planter is up

1364
02:01:37,199 --> 02:01:43,960
against the glass, that glass is going
to get disgusting.

1365
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:43,960
» Sorry.

1366
02:01:44,639 --> 02:01:52,880
» Regardless, on the other side, they
can't clean it. But that's the issue of

1367
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:56,239
glass. But but yes, that's
helpful, too. So,

1368
02:01:54,560 --> 02:02:00,719
» I think it's Can we make that?
>> Uh, you can make it if if you want to.

1369
02:01:58,639 --> 02:02:06,000
Um, I think it's a good idea. I was
having the same thought. Um, so all

1370
02:02:03,199 --> 02:02:10,880
roads lead to Rome, but it you might
want to um go ahead and make the motion

1371
02:02:09,280 --> 02:02:14,840
on this one if you kind of want to craft
the wording on this.

1372
02:02:16,080 --> 02:02:21,280
» That's not my strength, but let me do
it.

1373
02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:24,280
» I'm trying to give Jenna just a little
break.

1374
02:02:36,639 --> 02:02:43,119
Okay. I would like to make a motion to
adopt a resolution granting design

1375
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:50,159
review approval to construct a 300
square ft second story deck, skylights,

1376
02:02:45,599 --> 02:02:56,480
and exterior windows and doors at
140 San Rafale Avenue with um following

1377
02:02:54,320 --> 02:03:07,239
conditions.
the railing at the uh west and north

1378
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:07,239
side of the deck to go um

1379
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:20,880
two and a half ft inward um and provide
um planter boxes at the outer side of

1380
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:23,880
the um west and uh north side of the
deck.

1381
02:03:26,880 --> 02:03:35,520
And I'd like to also add the condition
that the um existing sconces that are on

1382
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:40,679
the north side um be swapped out for
dark sky compliant downward-facing

1383
02:03:37,679 --> 02:03:40,679
lights.

1384
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:49,119
» No, that can be incorporated the motion
assuming that's a friendly amendment.

1385
02:03:46,639 --> 02:03:54,159
Thank you.
>> Okay, I think we have a motion on the

1386
02:03:52,080 --> 02:04:00,400
floor.
I'm to be honest, I'm not quite as

1387
02:03:56,239 --> 02:04:05,360
convinced on the plants being
um inside the railing as or outside the

1388
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:11,440
railing as opposed to in or inside the
railing opposed out and complete and

1389
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:17,280
with a permanent structure on it. Um
um but I just I'm not entirely

1390
02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:23,440
convinced, but I'm going to trust you,
Alex, to pull it all together using your

1391
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:28,239
architectural genius. Um,
I mean, if you you can always negotiate

1392
02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:34,400
between yourselves and we could make it
a little less specific and it's still

1393
02:04:30,080 --> 02:04:39,840
going to come back to me. So, um, it's
uh, Donna, it depends on how you feel if

1394
02:04:37,920 --> 02:04:41,920
if you're willing to
>> I said my bit.

1395
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:47,199
» Okay. All right.
>> May I make a a quick point?

1396
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:51,679
» On the west side, the the railing right
now connects to the corner of the

1397
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:57,760
twotory part of the house. There's a
series of windows that come down facing

1398
02:04:54,159 --> 02:05:03,760
south. And so as we move that railing
further to the east to put planters or

1399
02:05:01,119 --> 02:05:07,199
screening on the other side, it kind of
needs to move in the increment of the

1400
02:05:05,280 --> 02:05:11,520
windows because the railing is going to
connect with the house higher than the

1401
02:05:08,639 --> 02:05:14,239
window sills. Otherwise, it'll connect
mid window.

1402
02:05:13,119 --> 02:05:18,639
» Yes. Um
>> those windows are I I wish I knew, but

1403
02:05:16,719 --> 02:05:24,320
they're probably about this wide.
>> Yeah. That's why I brought up the 2'6

1404
02:05:21,599 --> 02:05:27,599
inch. It seems to to sit at the mullen.
>> Agreed. Yeah,

1405
02:05:25,119 --> 02:05:31,639
» we can we can note at the to sit at the
m instead of 2'6.

1406
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:38,960
» Okay.
Second.

1407
02:05:37,599 --> 02:05:43,960
All in favor? I
>> I

1408
02:05:40,719 --> 02:05:43,960
thank you.

1409
02:05:46,159 --> 02:05:50,040
And now adjourn the meeting.