1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:13,440 Call to order the regular meeting of the Belvadier Planning Commission. 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:17,760 The first item is open forum. Open forum is an opportunity for any citizen to 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:22,240 briefly address the planning commission on any matter that does not appear on 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,920 the agenda. Comments are limited to no more than three minutes. Matters that 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:30,400 appear to warrant commission consideration may be agendaized for 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:34,000 further discussion at a later meeting. Is there anyone in the audience that 7 00:00:32,239 --> 00:00:37,000 would like to speak during the open forum? 8 00:00:38,239 --> 00:00:45,480 Rebecca, is there anyone on Zoom? >> There are no hands raised on Zoom. 9 00:00:42,239 --> 00:00:45,480 » Thank you. 10 00:00:46,239 --> 00:00:52,520 Reports. Are there any commissioners who'd like to provide a report? 11 00:00:53,840 --> 00:01:01,719 staff, do you have any reports? >> No reports. 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,719 » Thank you. 13 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,400 » I'll now move on to the consent calendar. The consent calendar consists 14 00:01:09,119 --> 00:01:14,159 of items considered to be non-controversial. 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,920 Unless any item is specifically removed by any member of the council, staff, or 16 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:22,560 public, the consent calendar will be adopted by one motion. Items removed 17 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:26,400 will be considered in the sequence that they appear on the agenda. 18 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:32,040 Would any member of the planning commission like to remove a consent 19 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,040 calendar item? 20 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:41,479 Rebecca, any hands on Zoom? >> No hands raised on Zoom. 21 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,479 » Thank you. 22 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,680 » I'll move to approve the consent calendar. 23 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,040 » Second. >> All in favor? I 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,280 » I >> thank you. 25 00:01:57,759 --> 00:02:04,360 I will um now open the public hearing 26 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:12,160 on item two, design review and demolition to remove an existing pier 27 00:02:10,399 --> 00:02:19,520 and construct a new pier in the same location at 43 Cliff Road. 28 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,640 Are there any questions from the planning commission of staff? 29 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,400 » I do have question. Did you ask? If you have questions for this, if you want to 30 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:37,640 ask staff question, now's the time. >> Don't they present first? No. Do you 31 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,640 have a 32 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:51,200 » the staff present first? Questions? >> Did I skip the staff report? Yes. 33 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:56,400 » Yes, I did. Okay. My apologies. >> Fortunately, my fellow commissioners um 34 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:59,599 keep me in line. May we have the staff report? Somehow it disappeared out of my 35 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,680 script. >> Of course. Thank you, Chair Cidle and 36 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:07,040 members of the planning commission. For your consideration this evening is an 37 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:12,319 application for design review and demolition uh to demolish the existing 38 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:18,400 pier and construct a new pier at 43 Cliff Road. 39 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:24,000 The site is comprised of a steep steeply sloped 30,000 square foot lot on the 40 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:27,920 western side of Belvier Island. In 1976, the property received design review 41 00:03:25,519 --> 00:03:33,680 approval to construct the existing pier which extends into Richardson Bay. 42 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:37,599 The property has an active building permit to construct a new single family 43 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:42,640 residence. The project received the building permit in October 2022 and was 44 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:48,560 assessed a two-year construction time limit. The project is more than 18 45 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:53,680 months over its CTL. Uh the CTL code by which 43 Cliff Road is governed is clear 46 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:58,239 and should a new or amended building permit be applied for and issued. The 47 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:04,439 new permit building permit is under the same CTL timeline as the first permit 48 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,439 that was issued. 49 00:04:05,519 --> 00:04:16,079 The project proposes to demolish the existing 712 foot pier 50 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:21,120 and construct a new 450t pier in the same location. The proposed pier would 51 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:26,320 maintain its existing length of 88 ft while reducing the walkway width from 8 52 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:34,800 feet to 4 feet. The project would remove the existing pilings and install seven 53 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:34,800 uh 18-inch diameter steel piles as well. 54 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:42,320 The pier would be constructed at an elevation of 13 feet above mean lower 55 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:47,080 low water line. This height is a 4ft increase above the existing pier's 56 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,080 elevation. 57 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:55,520 Uh these images from the pier at two cliff road show the intended look of the 58 00:04:51,919 --> 00:05:01,040 43 cliffs pier. Uh colors and materials include light transmitting wood decking, 59 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:05,520 2-in diameter aluminum posts, and 1-in diameter stainless steel tube railings. 60 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:10,280 The steel pilings would be wrapped in a highdensity plastic in a black color. 61 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:18,800 The project is located in a vicinity of eelgrass, which are considered essential 62 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:26,560 fish habitat for special status aquatic species. Staff recommends that the 63 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:32,160 analysis in the adopted 2018 initial study and mitigated negative declaration 64 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:36,320 by the regional water board uh adequately addresses the environmental 65 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:40,919 impacts of the proposed project and offers appropriate mitigation measures. 66 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:50,800 Um, the ongoing construction project has exceeded the CTL by over 18 months, 67 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,199 resulting in construction related impacts uh, citywide and within the 68 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:59,759 surrounding neighborhood. However, the planning commission's consideration this 69 00:05:57,039 --> 00:06:04,319 evening is to the required design review and demolition findings which are not 70 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:09,440 necessarily contingent on the project CTL status. Staff is working with the 71 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:14,400 applicant to encourage timely completion of the project and anticipates 72 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:18,960 construction of the pier will occur concurrently with completion of the 73 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:23,520 residence. The applicant has indicated that issuance of the building permit for 74 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:27,199 the pier will not extend the overall construction schedule and that both 75 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:32,199 improvements are expected to be completed within approximately two 76 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:32,199 years. 77 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:39,039 Uh with that staff recommends that the required findings can be made to grant 78 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,800 design review and demolition permit of the pier. The project will reduce the 79 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:47,759 pier's square footage within the same location thereby minimizing its overall 80 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:52,800 massing and potential view impacts. Materials are compatible with waterfront 81 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:56,560 properties in Belvadier and the 4ft pure height increase will not appear 82 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:02,840 excessively large or attract attention to itself. With that, Rebecca and I are 83 00:06:59,039 --> 00:07:02,840 happy to answer any questions. 84 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,319 Now with the planning commissioners like to ask questions. 85 00:07:06,479 --> 00:07:16,800 » Yeah. Um just um some clarification about the CTL 86 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:23,520 which my understanding is the project >> Yeah. I'm sorry. The the the the limit 87 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:31,680 now is October 2024. And there's a note here that says if the 88 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:36,240 uh permit is approved for this pier before then it it could be 89 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:42,639 assigned the same CTL 90 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:49,919 which would be October 24th, 2024. What does that 91 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:55,319 do for us? I mean is there you know it's it's 92 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:55,319 um 93 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:05,360 one I guess is that reasonable in all cases which is to say 94 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:12,160 I would say suppose the the building permit comes 95 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:18,599 you know a month before the project is completed the rest of the project 96 00:08:15,599 --> 00:08:18,599 Um, 97 00:08:19,039 --> 00:08:25,840 it is it still assigned the same backdated 98 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:31,759 CTL. I mean, is it really are we just 99 00:08:29,599 --> 00:08:37,599 it all feels a little bit like a gentle fiction that is we're we have this 100 00:08:33,839 --> 00:08:42,959 outdated now or or longgone CTL. We all understand that the project simply takes 101 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:49,120 a long time and the dock will take, you know, to get it all done. Gosh knows 102 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:54,160 what, you know, El Nino Palooa is going to do this winter. So, it could take 103 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:58,720 even longer than anybody would imagine at this point. But I'm I'm just saying 104 00:08:56,959 --> 00:09:03,760 what is the in this case kind of what's the value of the 105 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:07,519 CTL and why why do we care what the doc is 106 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:14,920 assigned at this point since it seems rather random. 107 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,920 Well, 108 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:20,959 » and does it matter? >> This is the process. I mean, you know, 109 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:27,279 caring is different than sort of what our code says, right? So, the the way 110 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:33,920 that our code was written, right? because this is under an old CTL code is 111 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:37,760 that in the in the way that um it's described at a pre-construction meeting 112 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:42,880 and the way that we communicate with applicants and contractors is here's 113 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:49,600 your main building permit. It's assigned this CTL. Any subsequent amendment to 114 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:54,240 that permit or should it warrant a a new permit, it's all tied to that 115 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:59,120 » first building permit number. It's it's all 116 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:03,680 retroactive to that initial building permit 117 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:08,480 CTL date. So the the onus is on the applicant and the contractor, right, to 118 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:14,079 you know, they know that coming into this. And so I think it would behoove 119 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:16,880 them to do the, you know, not apply for something that would prolong the 120 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:20,000 project. >> Sure. 121 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,399 » Right. But yeah. 122 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,839 » Yeah. If I may, Commissioner, if I could just add a little bit more. In a way, 123 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,480 you may be asking why was this information shared with you about the 124 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:34,880 CTL? Is that >> Well, I assume ordinarily that isn't 125 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:38,880 under our purview anyway, right? >> Yeah. So, CTL's Well, I guess in the 126 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:43,120 initial design review approvals, there is a CTL assigned to the project. So, 127 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:47,600 that is normally sort of present in your in the context that you're considering. 128 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:51,440 And I think staff felt the commission should be aware of where this project 129 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:56,160 does stand with respect to its current CTL guideline as just context that you 130 00:10:53,600 --> 00:11:00,720 should be aware of. Uh in some ways we felt like it wouldn't be appropriate not 131 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:06,880 to tell you about that background as this project comes before you. 132 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:09,680 Um so we felt it was important to share I mean it is an important facet of the 133 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:14,720 project to just let you know what the project status is because 134 00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:19,680 you know this is tied to that original approval from way back when. So you know 135 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:24,800 we certainly felt it was just important for you to understand those facts. Okay, 136 00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:31,040 good. I might come back to that later. >> Okay. Of course. 137 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:37,440 » To continue on that. Um let's say if a project takes 10 years um ongoing, would 138 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:42,079 we just let it go for as long as it takes and then at the end of the project 139 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:49,040 we go and assess whatever we need to assess or there is a timeline that we 140 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:55,920 would ask the applicant to get a new permit, ask for a extension or 141 00:11:53,920 --> 00:12:00,000 what is the rule? just let them go forever or for as long as they wish and 142 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,320 then at the end of the project we address that. 143 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:08,720 » Yes. Yes. >> We would at the end of the project we 144 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:12,880 would address it. Um and that's why we've amended our code, 145 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,279 right? Because if you're waiting 10 years and you're accumulating a fine 146 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:21,839 every day, it's a very large fine. We've amended the code sort of in a 147 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:26,399 pay-to-play model, right? you want an extension, you come to council, you then 148 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:32,000 it's based on your building permit fee and you're paying at that point. 149 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:37,839 So you would never give a stop work to a project just because it is too lengthy 150 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:42,000 or exceed ex exceeded the time limit beyond reasonable amount. I'm not saying 151 00:12:40,079 --> 00:12:48,000 about this project in in general. >> Um we wouldn't give a stop work order 152 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:52,079 for CTL violation or we haven't and I don't think that's in our previous code. 153 00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:57,279 Right. We have it under the older version of the code that applies to this 154 00:12:53,839 --> 00:13:02,079 project, but as Rebecca alluded to, you know, there are some downsides to that 155 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:06,560 old older codise, we move to the newer one, which is essentially they have to 156 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,519 come back to get more time on their building permit to proceed with a 157 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:14,720 project. So, you don't end up in the situation where 158 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:18,959 perhaps some builders, some owners feel like they almost are willing to pay the 159 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:22,079 fine to get more time. Um the city's priority in respect to all these 160 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:26,720 construction timeline matters is obviously we do want projects to finish 161 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,399 on time as originally intended. You know that is always the city's focus and I 162 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,240 know that staff is always trying to work with people to make sure that they do 163 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,079 finish on time. So we certainly don't turn a blind eye to projects that take 164 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,200 years and years and years to go on which going back to Commissioner Shinsu's 165 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:47,240 question you know that's why we wanted to bring this up because we didn't want 166 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:47,240 you to be unaware of these facts. 167 00:13:52,079 --> 00:13:56,720 Did you have a question? >> I have a question. Uh following up also 168 00:13:54,560 --> 00:14:02,560 on the construction time limits. Uh the resolution and also the case report 169 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:09,519 refers to the peer uh it pins the permit issuance date. Um it says if a permit is 170 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:13,440 issued after um the main project's done, would it then follow under a different 171 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:17,600 construction time limit? I mean, if they're applying now for the permit and 172 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:21,519 it doesn't get issued prior to the main project being 173 00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:26,320 finished, uh, would the pier have its own construction time limit? 174 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:31,120 » Are you asking >> if the the current building permit is 175 00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:37,199 final and complete? >> Well, I don't the conditions and the 176 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:41,199 staff report says um should the building permit for the pier be issued oh prior 177 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:46,959 to the completion of the existing project? uh the existing construction 178 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:51,839 time limit applies to the pier. So I guess I'm wondering if for some reason 179 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:55,920 the permit for the pier is issued after the completion of the main project. You 180 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,519 know if it takes them so long to get through all the other agencies, would 181 00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:04,079 the pier have its own construction time limit then in that case? Okay. 182 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:06,560 » Yes, it would. It would be a new Yeah. >> Okay. 183 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:11,680 » Yes. >> On the timeline, one more thing. Um 184 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:17,680 Sammy said you are working with the applicant on the um completion date of 185 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:22,320 this project. Do you have a date now from them? What is the completion date 186 00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:29,040 of the current project? >> Well yeah no nothing in concrete but we 187 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:34,240 did during this review of this project there the contractor's here and he's 188 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:40,160 indicated two two more years. you know, we don't have anything, you know, in a 189 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:44,480 contract, but I'm sure he'll answer questions about that as well. 190 00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:49,680 If you have >> I have questions 191 00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:52,880 about the timeline if you ask. >> Yes, but not about the timeline. If we 192 00:15:51,519 --> 00:16:02,560 are done with the timeline, I want to move on. So, I have a question about the 193 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:07,199 report um that um let me get the report. The report that Merkel and Associate 194 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:13,440 provided does not belong to this project. I wonder what it is. It is 195 00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:18,000 about 46 cliff road. This project is 43 Cliff Road. And the explanation at the 196 00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:24,639 beginning is that this report is provided because the applicant at 46 197 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:28,800 Cliff Road had a notice of violation and because of that violation they needed to 198 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:35,639 do this report and monitoring and mitigation and all that. So, am I 199 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,639 missing something here? 200 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:45,120 » No, you're not missing um something. The the report that we received, it showed 201 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:52,079 the eelgrass were present in the vicinity where the pier is as well. And 202 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:56,240 actually, Sean can speak on this more. Uh so the fact that there was eel grass 203 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:03,199 present required the uh environmental review but 204 00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:06,559 you're right it is 446 and not 43 uh but it's in the surrounding area where the 205 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:12,559 pier was but >> and I think their scope of work was um 206 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:18,559 to mitigate that notice of violation not really a new permit and whatever report 207 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:25,039 we requiring. So >> to me this is not a complete application 208 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:27,839 but let me know if >> basically we are missing a report for 209 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,640 this project. >> Okay. 210 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:39,760 Yeah, I think commissioner, you know, to the extent that um the applicant or the 211 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:43,840 applicants consultant is available, I think you should certainly feel free to 212 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:48,720 probe to what extent this report for initially for 46 cliff is applicable to 213 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,679 43 cliff because obviously that is a determination this planning commission 214 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:58,200 would need to be comfortable with to approve this project. 215 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,200 » Thank you. 216 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:07,559 Are there any other questions? Okay. Would the applicant like to make a 217 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,559 presentation? 218 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:22,320 » Uh, good evening. My name is Mark Swanson. Uh, thank you commissioners for 219 00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:28,640 your time. Thanks for your time visiting this site. Thank you staff. thanks to 220 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:33,760 members of the public and um I just wanted to Sammy did a fine job talking 221 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:37,280 about the details of the project and so I'm going to try to not duplicate what 222 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,840 he said. We kind of have similar presentations. There's sort of only so 223 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:48,880 much to talk about with a an old tired pier tired pier. So this this pier is 224 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:54,080 about 50 years old. Um, and as you've probably seen, it's in severe disrepair. 225 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:58,880 And when we have storm surges like we just did this past winter, uh, you know, 226 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:04,160 I go to bed at night wondering if it's going to be there the next morning. So, 227 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:09,039 I I I do feel uh that this this is an important matter to take care 228 00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:13,360 of the pier. And I I think this is good material conversation about well, what 229 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:18,799 happens if you do something with a month left on a CTL? And that's a great 230 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,679 question because what does happen if a a pier that looks good washes away and you 231 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,640 have to get a new permit and you have a month left on your CTO, but it takes 232 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:29,120 three years to get approvals from all the agencies and and the building 233 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:33,039 permit. So, um I think those are good questions to have. Uh we've been 234 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:38,559 spending years and years to to work through this process to get this pier 235 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:41,520 approved. And um as Sammy mentioned, the background is the current pier is 88 ft 236 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:47,360 long. We're going to stay at that length, but we're reducing the piles 237 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:52,559 uh in half and we're reducing the width in half and we're reducing the head size 238 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:57,679 about 15%. And so uh to speak to the approval 239 00:19:55,039 --> 00:20:01,679 process as Sean, our environmental consultant is here as well and and 240 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:06,480 please he's has a wealth of information about eel grass and fish and all kinds 241 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:10,240 of good things like that. I'm the builder and I can speak quite a bit to 242 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:14,880 any of the construction questions. the CTL 43, anything you'd like to talk 243 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:19,760 about regarding that? But there are multiple agencies involved with getting 244 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:24,160 a pier or anything in the water approved and essentially anything 100 ft above 245 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:28,320 the mean, mean high water mark. Um, the one we always talk about and hear a lot 246 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:31,360 about is BCDC and they're sort of the and I I might misspeak and Sean could 247 00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:37,280 correct me, but they're kind of the umbrella of all this. Um, and uh, Marin 248 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:41,760 County or whoever kind of owns the land is is also involved. And so Merin County 249 00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:45,600 owns water land out in Richardson Bay and so does the state off the like the 250 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:49,039 Gans properties, the lava house that's stateowned. So there's all these sort of 251 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,880 different agencies and the county requires a lease and we have that we so 252 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:58,000 we've we've got an approved lease with the county. Um the regional water 253 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:02,880 quality control board has issued their permit, their what they call an 254 00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:06,799 overwater structures permit and on some water projects they might be the last 255 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:11,600 one to issue their permit. You just never know. It's kind of anyone's guess. 256 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:17,280 Um, the Army Corps of Engineers is another agency involved in this project 257 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:22,080 and they're generally good with things like this, but they consult with the 258 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:27,039 National Marine Fisheries and the National Marine Fisheries has asked for 259 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:31,440 a biological assessment, uh, which is unusual. It's not common, but again, you 260 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:35,919 know, we we you get to pick your battles. And so, uh, Sean and his team 261 00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:39,200 have, you know, taken care of this atypical request and we're addressing it 262 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:43,280 and they have some means and methods questions that that we've resolved and 263 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:47,679 think they're going to be happy with. So, once they get that back, they have 264 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:51,679 it could be a month, it could be six months for them to turn that around. 265 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,919 Unfortunately, this national agency, the the marine 266 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,679 fisheries is one of the agencies hit hardest with the layoffs in the federal 267 00:21:57,919 --> 00:22:04,400 government. You know, their staffing has been greatly reduced. So, we're a bit at 268 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:08,159 their mercy. But, you know, if you get on the right person on the phone and and 269 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:12,720 you know, you have a relationship, you can typically move things along a little 270 00:22:09,679 --> 00:22:17,919 bit quicker, but there's no guarantees. BCDC would be the next agency that 271 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:22,880 issues sort of the permit that we attach to the building permit, and they're 272 00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:26,400 essentially approved. Um, although they need all the other agencies to be 273 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:30,960 approved. So, they kind of tie back to two different uh agencies. again the 274 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:37,280 core of engineers who's waiting on marine fisheries and the city approval. 275 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:41,679 So the planning commission approval and then the um the army core of engineers 276 00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:47,840 approval via the fisheries approval would be next on that. So, um, let's say 277 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:52,559 we got approval tonight. That would be one check for them for BCDC, but then 278 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:57,840 we'd still be on this three to six month timeline for for fisheries. And BCT 279 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,559 would not BCDC would not issue the permit um or we couldn't begin the work 280 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,640 until the building department issued the permit. And I if we were to receive 281 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:11,520 approval here, I would then get all of our structural drawings together, submit 282 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:17,200 them to Brian, and I, you know, I would guess Brian's two to three months out on 283 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:21,360 issuing a permit for this. Um, the reason I bring this up is because we 284 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:29,120 also have limited windows of opportunity to build in the water. Uh the current 285 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:36,159 window right now is June I want to say June 30th. Let's see is uh June 15th to 286 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:41,919 October 30th. And sometimes they give you permission to go to November 30th. 287 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:46,799 So if we were to get all this dialed in by like the 1st of September, I would 288 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:50,240 probably demolish the existing pier. That way we don't go through the winter 289 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:56,080 worrying about the pier washing away and being a hazard and getting caught up on 290 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:59,600 West Shore Road. If we don't get that, then we'd wait for the following 291 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:04,640 building window of June 15th would be our next opportunity. We do demo and uh 292 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,840 rebuild of the pier. That process is like 12 to 14 weeks. So I'm confident 293 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:16,559 that we could do that within our window. I also am confident that we would do 294 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:24,559 that within the current timeline of finishing 43 cliff which I currently 295 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:28,720 have as um the November of 27. So it's not quite two years. Anything could 296 00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:34,480 happen with weather and unforeseen conditions but you know so those two 297 00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:38,840 things would sort of be within the same envelope. Um, 298 00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:50,000 I think that for everybody, um, you know, performing the work now 299 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:54,880 instead of waiting until the 43 is finished and then the CTL stops and then 300 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,320 applying for a new building permit. I think that that's sort of a backwards 301 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:03,679 way to approach this, assuming we get all the permits. um you know the pier's 302 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,919 a hazard and when you're overlapping manpower and supervision and logistics 303 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:12,320 and general conditions things just are less um obtrusive and they go quicker 304 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:20,960 and it shortens the duration and timeline. I will also say that you know 305 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:25,440 I I get and I'm very sensitive to uh projects taking a long time and 306 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:29,919 neighbors and we do our best to accommodate neighbors. I I don't know 307 00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:33,760 any neighbors, contractors, homeowners, or anybody that really likes a project 308 00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:37,360 to take longer than it needs to take. I think we're all really on the same page. 309 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:42,240 We just want to get our jobs done and move on to the next one. 310 00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:46,880 And thank you for uh the time that you let me stay up here. I think it went 311 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:51,679 over a little bit. Appreciate that. >> Okay, that uh I think there are probably 312 00:25:49,679 --> 00:25:58,400 going to be some questions from the commission. 313 00:25:54,000 --> 00:26:04,960 Okay, I have um many questions. Uh let's start by easy one. The um the structural 314 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:10,880 engineers drawing says that the um survey that is shown on their drawing is 315 00:26:07,679 --> 00:26:15,200 done in 2019. Is that a mistake or was it done in 316 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:18,880 2019? The eel grass. 317 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:22,400 » Uh so I'm going to bring Sean in because that would be an environmental related 318 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:26,640 question and I think he can best explain. Um so let me ask you then the 319 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:30,159 other questions that has >> start with the hard one first like 320 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:36,080 » yeah no I'll ask the questions that the hard ones are about the environmental 321 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:44,320 and all that but the um the one that is related maybe to the um 322 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:51,760 the pier itself uh the aluminum on the railing and um are 323 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:56,080 are they going to be painted? No, we leave that natural stainless steel 324 00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,880 natural aluminum similar to the other peers that are nearby. 325 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:05,200 » It is a steel or it is aluminum. >> Stainless steel and aluminum. 326 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,360 » So they are all stainless steel remains and stainless steel. 327 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:13,679 » Correct. No paint. Yeah, stainless doesn't take paint. Well, 328 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:21,440 » yeah. the the structural drawing says alo expose the steel to be coated with 329 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:27,120 the paint. It it explains what the paint is and it 330 00:27:23,919 --> 00:27:30,960 says to be covered by the paint. >> I don't know if that's referring to the 331 00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:34,480 pilings, but if it's referring to the railings, that's just an error. The the 332 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:40,720 the railings are going to be as shown in the image and and noted on the uh 333 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:45,760 on the application. So it says all exposed steel. So railing I guess would 334 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:50,080 remain. What about the steel? All exposed steel. That is a structural 335 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:55,880 member and they want it to be painted. What color paint is that? 336 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,880 » Okay. 337 00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:08,159 Um then 338 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:14,159 then going back to the timeline. Um you are you talked a lot about that 339 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:22,159 applying for this permit takes a long time. So you started the project 340 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:27,360 with a timeline of two years. You are one and a half years beyond that. Three 341 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:31,120 and a half years later why do you apply now? 342 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:35,279 » Oh I I applied years ago probably three if not more years ago. It's a long 343 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,039 process of working through the different agencies. 344 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:43,840 » So which ones you have approval from the agencies you applied? 345 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:48,520 » Which ones do I have approval from? So um we have approval from the 346 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,679 we have approval from the core. Well that's pending the national marine 347 00:28:55,919 --> 00:29:04,240 fisheries. We have approval from the county of Marin. We have um approval 348 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:08,880 from BCDC except they just need the core of engineers to give them their approval 349 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:16,200 and they need the planning commission to approve and we have approval from the 350 00:29:11,679 --> 00:29:16,200 regional water quality control board. 351 00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:23,360 » So you just have one approval then because the rest are pending others. No, 352 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:28,640 we have the county approval >> and the regional water quality control 353 00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:33,520 board approval and the other two of the other three would approve, but they're 354 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:35,279 waiting on the marine fisheries. >> Got it. Thank you. 355 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:42,440 » You're welcome. >> Yeah, the rest would be uh for me um 356 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,440 from the report. 357 00:29:45,679 --> 00:29:53,919 » I'll uh thanks. My name is Sean Avant. with Sunset Ecological Solutions. I've 358 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:58,399 been working on uh the 43 cliff project, not throughout the whole project, but 359 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:02,559 for most of it. So, I can answer a lot of your environmental questions and some 360 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:07,120 of even your um design questions if you have them because I have the history on 361 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:12,000 the project there. Um going back to the permits, I'll Thank you. Going back to 362 00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:17,360 the permits, I'll say that we also do have a BCDC permit in hand. It just has 363 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:23,600 a condition that says we also need the army corps permit for it to be valid. 364 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:29,520 » Um okay. So to start the as I mentioned the structural engineer drawing says 365 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:33,840 that the report um is in from 2019. Is that a mistake or the report is from 366 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:38,880 2019? What report do they refer to? >> I am not sure what text you're referring 367 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:44,640 to on those engineering plans. >> Yes. On the structural engineer drawing 368 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,880 it says shaded area. Um, >> oh, for the eelgrass. 369 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:51,600 » Yes, for the eel grass. >> Ah, yes. Uh, that's a um a baywide 370 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:57,360 eelgrass survey that the engineer put on the plans that was available in 2019. 371 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:02,080 Uh, the other report that you held up earlier that was also for 46 cliff shows 372 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,480 the eel grass at the time of the application. 373 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:11,919 » Right. So, the 2019 is not valid anymore as we know. It needs to be one year old, 374 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:15,919 two, three years old. Uh but the new one whatever which we don't even see it but 375 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:22,559 structural engineer I guess had it and put it there. Um the report that we have 376 00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:26,320 in hand as I mentioned does not belong to this project. It is because of a 377 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:32,080 notice of violation. Can you explain that violation what it is and how is 378 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:35,440 that going to mitigate and how is that related to this project? 379 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:41,039 » Sure. So, another biological consultant was on the project prior to my being on 380 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:46,000 the project way back when for 46 cliff. And that report um was generated for the 381 00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:53,120 46 cliff project, but it also included all adjacent areas. Inside those 382 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:57,200 adjacent areas was also 43 cliff. So, he captured the data that anyone that would 383 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,919 have created a survey would have done for 43. He just didn't write a separate 384 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,799 report for that. So couldn't you have them to generate a 385 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,320 new report for this project which I think we should ask for it. They they 386 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:15,360 have all the data. They can provide a report for this project. 387 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,919 » Yeah, we can talk to that uh consultant at that time. Yeah, 388 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:27,120 it'll show the same exact data. It'll just be a separate report titled 43 389 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:33,919 instead of 43 46. And how they are how are they going to mitigate the um 390 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,080 the disturbed ill grass or or can you explain how 391 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,120 » the 43 cliff? >> Yes. 392 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:44,960 » They don't anticipate any disturbances. Um part of the um national mean fishery 393 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:48,799 service uh permit or or their their consultation with the US Army Corp of 394 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:54,320 Engineers is that you must follow the CMP which is the California Eelgrass 395 00:32:50,880 --> 00:33:00,240 Mitigation Program and we have proposed to do that. Um the the way to do that is 396 00:32:57,919 --> 00:33:03,679 uh within 60 days of starting the project, you need to do another eelgrass 397 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,840 survey to document the baseline conditions prior to construction. After 398 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:12,960 the project is finished, you need to again do another survey within 30 days 399 00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:17,840 after the project to determine what impacts the project had on the eelgrass. 400 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:22,960 From that differentiation you can determine if eelgrass was affected and 401 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:28,720 how much and then um mitigation will be imposed. 402 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:32,480 » Are there any mitigation uh required for 46 403 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:35,480 the report? >> Yeah. 404 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:46,000 Um so 46 Cliff Road was a project that's was approved um started I think in like 405 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:50,720 2015 and it was before my time when I began 406 00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:55,200 work on that project the the building permit was uh just issued and the set of 407 00:33:53,279 --> 00:34:02,320 plans and drawings and permits were issued and a condition that the planning 408 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:05,840 commission and um maybe staff I I don't want to speak out of line put on that 409 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,919 project and that was agreed to was that project would be completely built 410 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:14,560 completely from the water and that was a real firm condition that they had. So I 411 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:18,000 lined everything up. We had a BCDC permit and we had everything appeared to 412 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,839 be in order in the drawings and I started building that house from the 413 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:27,599 water. It was the only way that was allowed to be built and one agency uh 414 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:31,839 came up and said, "Hey, we we actually don't have uh the right permit for you 415 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:39,040 to build from the water." So then that became back to the planning commission 416 00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:43,119 in the city and it kind of created um some complexities and we came up with 417 00:34:40,879 --> 00:34:45,760 all new plans and had to build the house from the land and not the water because 418 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:51,200 we weren't allowed to build from the water. But while building from the 419 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:57,200 water, one of the barges had tur uh crop thrust and they in their prop thrust it 420 00:34:54,320 --> 00:35:04,240 affected some of the eelgrass. And so we agreed to plant restore the eel grass, 421 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:09,599 but we've restored it by you know uh multiple factors uh and we planted some 422 00:35:07,359 --> 00:35:12,640 out in the Richardson Bay. We planted restored it in the general area in front 423 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:20,320 of the house and it's I'm happy to report is growing like real happy eel 424 00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:24,960 grass. So the person that's been doing uh surveys of this and it the next 425 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:28,880 surveys I think it finishes next year the surveys that we had to do we were 426 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:32,800 doing five years of surveys he's sidescanning and scanning all of this 427 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:38,079 area and he's actually doing all the restoration out in Richardson Bay where 428 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:42,480 the anchor outs were. Uh so while I mean I I could we could request maybe a note 429 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:48,640 from him as a condition of approval saying hey Keith uh can you note that 430 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:52,640 your work is also applicable to 43 cliff but it's it's such an umbrella of work 431 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,720 he's done all over you know the general area that's why I I understand why 432 00:35:54,560 --> 00:36:00,000 you're saying 46 but the consultant work and the scanning he did was all in that 433 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:06,160 general area and that's why we have that big overlay map of of the work. 434 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,800 Did that answer your question about that? 435 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,040 » Um, yes. Thank you. >> You're welcome. 436 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:25,400 » So, can I if nobody else has any question, can I ask another question 437 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,400 from the applicant? Um, 438 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:36,480 so can you address the the delay on the project? explain a little bit how um we 439 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:43,200 received a letter from one neighbor that is very concerned about the the time 440 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:51,760 that this project took. uh the um condition of the road that is um 441 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:59,760 deteriorated and um extension another extension of um 442 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:06,240 two years which would I think brings the total penalty on the project about 443 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:12,320 beyond a million. So can you address that and 444 00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:17,920 » well you know I I am happy to provide a sort of a more detailed list of reasons 445 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:23,440 of why projects like this take a long time. Um a couple examples we had some 446 00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:29,520 health issues on the project. We encountered uh a real lot of imported 447 00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:33,440 gravel and fill in the whole rear of the property that had to be removed and 448 00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:39,040 offhauled before we could have a a substantial foundation for the pool. Um 449 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,079 houses now have they're much more intensive to build than they used to be 450 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,839 even a few years ago with the new energy codes. For instance, you have to 451 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:50,320 insulate the inside of even headers now in homes to to meet the environmental 452 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:55,359 requirements. So instead of it being sort of one step after the other, you 453 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:59,359 find yourself very often doing uh incremental steps insulating one side of 454 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:03,520 a shear wall and then coming back and and re-sharing the other side and then 455 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:07,200 before you can take the next step. So houses have just become much more 456 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:12,560 complicated and complex. We're dealing with two different structures, one down 457 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:17,920 at the water side, one up above and you know and we have limited access and you 458 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,119 know we had a heavy winter with rains at different times. So there's just a 459 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:26,520 number of reasons and I have others as well sent over 460 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:36,720 and it sounds like you think you're 461 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:42,320 maybe a little more than halfway through the project and it's expected to go on 462 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:45,520 for several more years. So I heard staff say something along those lines. 463 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,960 » Well, I'd say inside of two years at this point. That's why in November of 464 00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:56,560 2027, so that would be a year and a half 465 00:38:51,200 --> 00:39:02,480 range, but um so I I would say I'm more than halfway through the project for 466 00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:08,720 sure. Okay. Um and this may be a question for staff. I am Am I correct in 467 00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:13,440 assuming Cliff Road is a private road in the vicinity of these houses? It's not a 468 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:19,119 public Belvadier Street. >> That is correct. Okay. 469 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:23,839 » And I have offered to work with the neighbor on on the area in front of the 470 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:28,720 property. We've got dialogue right now and I've committed to some things and he 471 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,920 also finished his project and he had has a responsibility to maintain some of 472 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,079 that as well. I just don't know the details and he's offered to. So we are 473 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:40,240 talking. I'm not we don't have a perfect solution yet, but we are 474 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:45,040 » Well, I'm I'm happy to hear that and I I know private roads are complicated 475 00:39:43,839 --> 00:39:50,720 things to >> Yeah. You know, if you go two houses 476 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:55,119 down, the roads even worse, but I I'm not I'm not interested in having a 477 00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:57,680 conflict. I'm interested in a resolution, and we're working towards 478 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,040 that. >> Yeah. 479 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:06,320 » Thank you. >> Other questions? 480 00:40:03,839 --> 00:40:10,800 Um, I just want to follow up also, uh, maybe it's a duplicate question, but 481 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,880 again about the, uh, the letter that we received from the neighbor about, uh, 482 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:18,720 construction equipment, um, being stored or just sitting in the roadway, that 483 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,839 sort of thing. Uh, you know, the resolutions that we have in front of us 484 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,560 also have conditions about the construction management program. Um, 485 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,359 which I'm sure the original project has the same conditions. And so just want to 486 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,960 like moving forward um just kind of understand from your point of view how 487 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:38,079 how you expect that'll be addressed if it'll be addressed differently. 488 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:42,480 » Sure. Well, I'm happy to report that we just removed two pieces of equipment 489 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:47,359 that we were using on the property and so they're off the site now and we have 490 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:51,520 two small machines that that can fit in on the footprint. We've 491 00:40:49,839 --> 00:40:55,920 cleaned out in front of the house because we had a lot of material staging 492 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:59,920 there. And so we don't anticipate storing anything in the street over the 493 00:40:57,839 --> 00:41:03,839 long term, but sometimes if we have to use a forklift or something, we bring it 494 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:08,240 in the the night before, the day before, and then we use it the following day to 495 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:15,839 unload and offhaul things, and then we we take it off the property. So there's, 496 00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:19,760 you know, we we are mindful of um what the building department has asked us to 497 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:23,440 do, which is leave at least 10 ft of pathway. And we're also mindful of the 498 00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:27,520 fact that neighbors don't want to look at, you know, construction equipment. 499 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:33,680 Um, the majority of the pier will be built from the water. Um, so I don't 500 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:37,200 think those two things overlap, but I I understand at the same time the 501 00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:38,240 sensitivity of the things in the road. >> Okay. 502 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,720 » Yeah. >> And and I have a second question. Uh, 503 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:47,599 it's a smaller detail on the plans. Uh, the I notice the square footage that's 504 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:52,720 described on the on these plans. Um it's measured from the um bay side of the 505 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,720 mean high water line. Um but the overall footprint of the pier is slightly larger 506 00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:01,200 because there's a portion of the pier on the other side of that line. Um 507 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:05,599 » I just wonder why and just forformational purposes why is it 508 00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:11,200 measured Oh thanks you can answer. >> It's okay with Sean. Yeah. 509 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,560 » The reason that the engineer measured it from the mean high water line is the 510 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:20,079 DCDC jurisdictional line. >> Okay. That's the uh the delineation 511 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:25,200 between the shoreline band and the bay and we have to separate those two areas 512 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,760 for BCDC and that's why they did that. >> Okay. Thank you. 513 00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:43,880 » Okay. Uh any further questions? No. Okay. Are there um any comments from 514 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,880 members of the public on this item? 515 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:54,000 Becca, do you see anyone online? >> I have um Ben Jacobe um online 516 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:57,000 and he's joining the webinar as a panelist. 517 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:08,000 » Hey everybody. Um can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes, we can. 518 00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:14,319 » Great. Um I guess a a couple things. Um, I thought I heard the applicant say that 519 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:19,520 they're going to construct the majority of the pier from the water, but the 520 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:25,760 application I read said it will be constructed in totality from the water. 521 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:29,680 So, I'm not sure if if you're able to answer questions real time or if you 522 00:43:27,839 --> 00:43:34,960 would just like me to answer the series of my questions or or to provide the 523 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:42,240 series of my questions. You can just continue because Okay, fair enough. Um, 524 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:47,200 so that so we're and I should back up. We're the neighbors at 30 Cliff Road 525 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:53,040 that you know, for better or worse, we're right across the street. Um, we 526 00:43:50,880 --> 00:44:01,200 started our project construction in 2022. We finished our house in uh in 527 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:08,720 November of 24. We got our our certificate of occupancy. 528 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:14,960 46 Cliff, which is owned by the same uh individuals as 43 Cliff, has been under 529 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:20,480 construction since 2019 and it's still not done. And our experience with that 530 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:26,800 project and it seems like with this project is there's just a series of 531 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,960 requests which end up extending the construction timeline and then we're the 532 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:39,040 ones that suffer for it because we have to deal with this um every day, right? 533 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:46,560 Except fortunately the weekends. Um so I think with 46 cliff they added an ADU. 534 00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:51,280 They tore out their parking pad. They put in a new parking. They widened the 535 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:54,560 road, which we own down there. It is a private road. They widened the road 536 00:44:52,480 --> 00:45:00,079 without our permission. Uh unfortunately, the portion of the road 537 00:44:56,079 --> 00:45:06,720 that we own. Um, so it hasn't it hasn't been um you know I I guess I could 538 00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:12,720 safely say it hasn't been a a seamless uh relationship uh unfortunately 539 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:20,400 uh with with the construction crew um with 43 cliff um you know the pier has 540 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:25,359 been a hazard since 2019. So I think to say that they need seemingly for an 541 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:31,680 incomplete application as I think some of the council members noted to need the 542 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:37,359 the uh the planning permission now and to have the reason that uh that the 543 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:42,560 existing pier is a hazard seems to be a little bit of a misstatement because 544 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:49,920 it's been in its present condition uh for a very long time and really I think 545 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:53,440 what the the issue that we have is it just seems like this project is going to 546 00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:58,079 go on forever. I mean, I think day before yesterday, they had trucks down 547 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:04,560 here and they're still doing civil work and pulling dirt out and there's just no 548 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:10,720 um there's there's really no oversight or no guard rails to prevent them to 549 00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:16,560 keep on going on forever. I think this the CTL rules, you know, theoretically 550 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:21,599 pose a limit, but I think all of our experience with 551 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:25,920 that is once you get to the end of a project like this and you're facing the 552 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:32,800 kind of penalties that they face, I mean, will do those get paid or not? So, 553 00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:38,960 um, so I I'm not sure, you know, what to think of a project that's already, you 554 00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:45,599 know, uh, uh, you know, 2 years over or 18 months over its 2-year limit asking 555 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:49,359 for a permit modification to embark on another project. And here, you know, we 556 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:54,880 as the neighbors are kind of holding the bag in terms of the nuisance. Um, I 557 00:46:52,319 --> 00:47:01,839 think my wife Deborah has some questions she wanted to note as well. Um, yeah. I 558 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:09,440 wasn't Oh, hi. Um, I wasn't clear again going along with why you're showing us 559 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:14,800 the picture of the 46 pier area instead of the 43 pier area. It's just not 560 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:20,400 really clear. And I'm also wondering, do you have approvals from the water board 561 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:27,680 in hand that you can show the board and BCDC or is that like not real? Like is 562 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:36,000 it pending? I actually would like to see evidence of those approvals before, 563 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:43,839 you know, Belvadier um approves this. Um I also feel like the road, there's just 564 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:49,200 dust on our road that just filters. We have a brand new house and it's a mess 565 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:54,880 because of this project and it's I'm sorry it it's a private road but I feel 566 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:59,359 like it's just every day it's so dusty and I've asked them to please just pave 567 00:47:57,359 --> 00:48:05,599 a little strip like where the trucks park where there's just there's no road 568 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:12,160 left and it's so it's so dirty and I'm I'm I it's we have to live next to this. 569 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:18,000 I live here and I it's been years and I just you know cars come up and down and 570 00:48:14,319 --> 00:48:23,760 trucks and and yes we we did have you know our project and you know that was 571 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:30,000 that was a year and a half ago and it's but the the dust from this project right 572 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:34,000 now is just overwhelming. Um okay I just have a couple practical light um 573 00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:38,400 questions about the pier if you could be so kind. There's a flashing light at the 574 00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:42,240 end and we just want to know which side the flashing light's going to be on. 575 00:48:40,319 --> 00:48:46,559 » I think I think we have a question as to whether there will be a flashing red 576 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:52,480 light at the end of the pier. There presently is not one. Um and then one 577 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:57,280 other uh question or comment I wanted to make in part in response to Mark is he 578 00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:01,680 said there's not construction materials stored in the road. True, there's not 579 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:06,960 equipment anymore. Um, there have been two enormous olive trees which take up 580 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:13,359 the roadway that have been there for over two years. These are giant olive 581 00:49:09,839 --> 00:49:20,079 trees in in boxes in in the road on the side. And it doesn't seem like an issue 582 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:26,079 in a vacuum, but what happens is all of the subcontractors come down and they 583 00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:31,839 stack all of their trucks along the side of the road because they won't park 584 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:37,040 elsewhere. It's um I'm just gonna u I want to point out that there is a time 585 00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:42,800 limit on these comments and so I've granted each of you three minutes. Um 586 00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:46,319 » so I think um if you have a summary you if you want to make a quick statement to 587 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:51,839 wrap it up. Um we appreciate your comments. 588 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:56,800 » Okay. my my my I to for me I really want the road to be paved even if it's not 589 00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:02,880 perfectly paved just where there's dirt there's loose dirt and rubble to get out 590 00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:07,440 of my driveway to go to work or to go to you know to the store every day I'd 591 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:12,800 really like it if that could be paved um and then I just want to make sure that 592 00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:16,480 the pier is the same size as they are stating and that it's not larger or 593 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,680 longer or anything >> and that The pier is fully constructed 594 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:26,960 from the water and no construction materials for construction of the pier 595 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:30,400 will be stored in the street. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. I appreciate 596 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:34,680 your comments. >> Thank you. 597 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,680 » Thank you. Appreciate it. 598 00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:43,599 » So, so I um so I I heard a couple questions out of there that I would like 599 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:49,280 answered. One is clarification on construction by land or sea. 600 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:54,400 Um, did I didn't hear you. Did you say you're asking if how are you going to 601 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:59,359 construct the pier? By by sea, which obviously has some of the environmental 602 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:02,800 considerations that my colleague brought up, versus by land, which has more 603 00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:07,280 neighbor considerations. >> Sure. Great, great question. So, the 604 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:11,920 pier is is um just about completely constructed by on 605 00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:16,720 the water side. There's no real other way to do it. When I was saying the 606 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:22,880 majority of of it will be constructed by the wateride, um it's 95%. All I'm 607 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:27,280 saying is if we needed some cables or somebody needed to carry paint down when 608 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:30,559 the barge is gone, we needed to couple boards are coming up or we needed to to 609 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:36,240 bring some boards down there, we would do that. There's no intention of having 610 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:40,319 any equipment on the on the property side. It's just, you know, I I just 611 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,839 don't want to get into some situation where, you know, I I said it would be 612 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:48,640 100% from the water. However, there, you know, we we got to touch up, fine-tune, 613 00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:52,079 do things like that. >> And the red light 614 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,160 » flashing, not flashing. >> I'm not aware of the red light to be 615 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:59,200 honest with you. >> On that side don't have flashing. 616 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:03,359 » Yeah, I to cliff may have had that. I don't know. I'm not certain about that. 617 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,280 Um, that's in the image that that's part of the presentation, but I'm not aware 618 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:12,160 of that. might be a thing that the Coast Guard requires if you go a certain 619 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:16,640 distance out, but I have no no knowledge of of the of the light. Um, unless I've 620 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,599 overlooked it. We can all look at the drawing. It's it wouldn't be any 621 00:52:17,839 --> 00:52:22,240 different than what's on the drawing. I I don't know about that. Do you? 622 00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:26,000 » No. >> But to be clear, the only reason you 623 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:29,920 would have one is if it were required. >> Yeah. Navigation age or something. 624 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:35,079 Absolutely. Yeah. We we have no interest in putting a light out on the end of the 625 00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:35,079 pier. 626 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,599 Yeah, >> thank you. 627 00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:45,520 » I have a question also um and following up uh how about the demolition of the 628 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:50,480 existing um pier. Would that also be from the water? Can you describe that? 629 00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:54,319 » Yeah, so we bring in a a a barge with a a machine, a crane excavator type 630 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:58,319 grapple on it and it pulls out the pilings and everything gets loaded on 631 00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:02,839 the barge and then goes away with the barge. 632 00:52:59,839 --> 00:53:02,839 Yes. 633 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:13,359 Um, one more question for me. Um, do you acknowledge the penalty that you owe to 634 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:17,040 the city that they all talk about? >> I I absolutely acknowledge there's a 635 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,040 construction time limit penalty on the project. 636 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:29,760 » Okay. If we are um done with questions, um, thank you. 637 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:35,040 » Thank you. Um, I'll close the public hearing and bring this matter back to 638 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:39,440 the commission for discussion. Um, Don, you sort of live over on that 639 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:42,880 side of the island. You start. >> You know, I'm not going to have any 640 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:47,200 problem making the findings tonight. Obviously, the 641 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:50,480 » uh as I see it, the footprint of the of the pier is going to be smaller than 642 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:56,000 what's there. Uh, you're going to be letting light through. You're going to 643 00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:59,440 be uh uh using fewer pilings. I think from that sense, we're not talking about 644 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:05,440 a bigger dock or even a replacement dock. We're talking about a somewhat uh 645 00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:10,079 uh less uh invasive dock than is there now. So, I don't have a problem with 646 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:14,400 that. Regarding the the egrass, um having gone down that road with a 647 00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:20,960 consultant for a while for our own dock, um I can just say that, you know, that 648 00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:26,400 that's beyond I think what I'm prior to appine on. Uh uh I know the kind of 649 00:54:24,319 --> 00:54:32,240 alphabet soup of jurisdictions that actually have to sign off on this. Um I 650 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:36,319 figure we're sort of the least of that. But from a design review standpoint, 651 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:42,480 I'll have no problem making the finding. Uh that said about the uh the 652 00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:48,800 construction and clearly the you have a neighbor who would like some more 653 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:53,839 attention paid to uh uh their needs and they uh uh and their right to have the 654 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:58,960 project be less intrusive I guess than they feel 655 00:54:56,079 --> 00:55:05,440 that it is right now. Um, I don't know exactly what our role is to talk about 656 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:13,359 uh differences of opinion as they pertain to a private road. Um, and how 657 00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:17,920 much of that is something we talk about and have the standing to talk about or 658 00:55:15,359 --> 00:55:23,280 not at all. Um, I'll be curious to hear what my colleagues say. Um, other than 659 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:30,319 it's, you know, I assume that everybody's primary incentive that this 660 00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:34,800 project be over as quickly as possible, uh, and that everybody is interested in 661 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:39,920 having that happen for maybe slightly different reasons. I assume the the 662 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:45,040 sheer fact that the overall incentive is the same for everybody. Um, we'll make 663 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:49,680 sure that this happens as quick as humanly possible. So, with that, I can 664 00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:55,040 make the findings. Thank you, Miss Zelda. 665 00:55:53,280 --> 00:56:00,240 » Um, yeah, thank you for all the extensive information tonight. Um, I I 666 00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:06,000 think one of my uh bigger concerns is the um the impact uh that project is 667 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:09,920 having on all the neighbors. Um and then also specifically the construction 668 00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:14,720 management plan. As I said earlier, I know that uh you know it's incorporated 669 00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:19,640 as a condition. >> It's incorporated as a condition of 670 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,640 approval. 671 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:32,160 Um and um I'm just not sure how it could be improved moving forward. Um but um 672 00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:36,000 um but given that um you know as far as the environmental concerns with the eel 673 00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:40,400 grass, you know, procedurally, I think that it's it's quite extensive the 674 00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:43,440 requirements from the other agencies. Um so it sounds like that will be uh all 675 00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:46,880 the requirements will be met with that like the pre-construction survey and 676 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:51,760 mitigation monitoring, that sort of thing. Um I do have just another fine 677 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:58,160 detail. Um I wanted to for the resolutions just that this uh we're 678 00:56:54,400 --> 00:57:01,599 being asked to approve a do pier of 450 square ft but there is the additional 679 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:08,559 square footage on the other side of the mean high water line. 680 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:13,280 Yeah. And so just want to talk about uh just modifying some of the language in 681 00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:19,280 the resolutions to reflect that you know wherever it says the project is a 450 682 00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:24,640 foot pier as me maybe adding language that says as measured from the mean high 683 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:31,480 water line um it's just so specific in the resolution. So 684 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,480 that's all. Thank you. 685 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:46,000 So, um for me, um the um original, you know, intent of 686 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:53,599 demolishing a pier that doesn't work and building a new one on a site that is um 687 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:59,200 valuable for um you know, having that dock is absolutely the way to go. We 688 00:57:56,799 --> 00:58:05,440 don't need a dock that is uh broken and we want that property that is um for 689 00:58:02,799 --> 00:58:10,799 enjoyment of that um dock to have that dock. However, I don't think the 690 00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:19,040 applicant did their due diligence right. The the report does not belong to this 691 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:24,720 project. Um and um I I would say I don't know if we could potentially approve in 692 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:32,400 the condition that they provide the appropriate um report meaning the um 693 00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:38,799 Merkel and Associate provide a report for 43 um Cliff Road and um note 694 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:42,240 whatever they they think has to happen there. I'm not a specialist. If they 695 00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:46,480 think it is the same, they copy the same thing. if they think it needs to be 696 00:58:44,319 --> 00:58:52,160 other things, they would include that. That would be one condition I would say. 697 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:57,920 And another condition I wonder um could be um that the applicant who 698 00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:04,559 acknowledged that they owe the penalty, they pay the penalty to date to the city 699 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:08,799 of Belvadier um and then the the remaining of it would be assessed at a 700 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:19,040 later time when the project will be done. Um I think that is a um way of um 701 00:59:14,319 --> 00:59:23,280 having or um you know just these extension of the time are not 702 00:59:20,799 --> 00:59:28,880 meaningless and then um the neighbors who have to deal with you know the um 703 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:33,760 hardship of a construction see that this is a real thing and if you take four 704 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:39,680 years extra on on a two-year construction it you you pay the 705 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:44,160 penalties. So I would say um and then I don't think on a um at a and you 706 00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:51,440 mentioned that you are working with the neighbor as a to um 707 00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:56,880 to do the um the road. I don't know if that is something that we can um are you 708 00:59:54,400 --> 01:00:00,440 willing to do the the road for them? Is that in the works? 709 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:10,559 » Hello. I actually I I need to reopen the public hearing if you're going to speak. 710 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:14,160 Um so I will reopen the public hearing if you'd like to answer that question. 711 01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:18,480 » But could that be a condition? >> Uh well, I I I don't know how you 712 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:23,280 condition something like that, but I'm here to tell you that I'm working with 713 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:28,480 the neighbor on addressing the road. And I could I have correspondence I could 714 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:33,520 show you that you know would provide reassurance but and and I will I have a 715 01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:39,200 reputation to protect and it's been pretty good for a long time since 2000 716 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:44,079 around here. So yeah >> maybe I'll ask the city attorney is that 717 01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:47,040 something that we could condition >> I'm sorry I'm trying to keep track of 718 01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:49,760 the condition. So it's the condition about 719 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:55,440 private road >> the private road to be repaved. they are 720 01:00:52,799 --> 01:01:00,400 willing to do it. Is can it can that be a condition of the approval? 721 01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:03,359 » No, I'm not willing to repave the road until the project's done, but I'm 722 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:07,520 willing to work with the neighbor. And I'm in process of working with the 723 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:11,359 neighbor on getting the road to a place where everybody's comfortable. And I've 724 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:16,160 already told the neighbor I would do that. And as I mentioned, he also has 725 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:20,400 some ownership of that road. And so we're working towards a resolution. 726 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:24,799 » And what is that that you are willing to do? Um, I I'm going to there's a strip 727 01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:30,079 against the retaining wall where people park that we're going to put um concrete 728 01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:34,480 down like we've done in other areas and that'll last for until the end of the 729 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:39,680 project. And then there's some cracked broken areas out in front of uh his 730 01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:44,480 house that either he or I are going to address. But as I mentioned on his 731 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:47,839 project, he had a a deposit, a road deposit, and I just don't know where 732 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:51,920 that stands with Okay. the building department. 733 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:57,200 » Thank you, Mark. Yes, you're welcome. Uh, I'll close the public hearing again 734 01:01:54,880 --> 01:02:00,319 now. >> So, if I could respond to the 735 01:01:58,799 --> 01:02:04,079 commissioner's questions. So, the conditions that the planning commission 736 01:02:02,319 --> 01:02:09,200 can impose on this project have to be related to the project as is before you. 737 01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:15,119 So for example, I don't know if others are going to raise this issue uh but the 738 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:19,280 applicant's representative did raise I think conditions that he would be 739 01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:24,960 amendable to such as demolition of the pier needs to occur from the water. Uh 740 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:29,920 any construction equipment used to construct the pier would also be from 741 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:33,839 the water. Things along those lines. Um the light issue that was mentioned by 742 01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:38,400 Commissioner Shinsky in public comment, those also relate to the pier. So those 743 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:42,000 would be appropriate conditions, but the condition at the end of the day needs to 744 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:45,359 relate to the project before the planning commission tonight. 745 01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:47,520 » How about the penalty payment? Is that related to the project 746 01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,200 » to be? >> I guess I'm not quite clear on what 747 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:57,599 we're asking for. So >> that they pay their penalty to date, 748 01:02:53,440 --> 01:03:02,160 meaning from the um the date that their um their permit expired to today. How 749 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:05,440 many days is that? How much they need to pay for that? 750 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:12,119 Um, I don't even know what that amount is, Commissioner. I 751 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,119 » Is that possible to be calculated? And 752 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,480 » is it possible now to calculate it? Is that what you're asking? 753 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:23,760 » No. No. Not the amount that they would pay from the expiration of the building 754 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:29,920 permit to date that we are approving this because it is conditioned to it to 755 01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:33,359 be paid by today. So it will be calculated at a later time how much it 756 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:38,160 is and they would pay and then they would apply for a building permit for 757 01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:41,160 this. We can do that calculation. >> Right. 758 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:47,920 » You know again the conditions need to relate to the projects that are before 759 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:52,640 us. So maybe a slight modification would be you know the and I I believe the 760 01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:58,799 applicant said this that he does not believe that this additional scope will 761 01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:02,000 lengthen the time for the project and certainly Mr. Swanson can respond if 762 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:06,799 that's not accurate. >> But there is no time for the project. 763 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:11,440 The pine time is already expired that it is the time that he 764 01:04:09,359 --> 01:04:15,200 creates on his own. There is no really time limit, 765 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:19,200 » right? But perhaps an acknowledgement that he will not challenge any 766 01:04:16,799 --> 01:04:23,760 additional penalties imposed attributable to any additional time 767 01:04:21,359 --> 01:04:28,400 required by this project that he's seeking approval of tonight. you know, 768 01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:31,680 again, something tied to this project as opposed to things that are not before 769 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:36,640 you tonight, but I don't know if Mr. Swanson Russ wants to respond to that 770 01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:43,039 subject of the chair's permission. Well, um 771 01:04:40,319 --> 01:04:48,440 I I think I'd like to have a chance to to speak if if I may. Um 772 01:04:50,079 --> 01:05:00,480 this is uh you know, a complicated project. That's where I want to start. 773 01:04:55,680 --> 01:05:07,200 Um, we've seen several doc projects come through and um, I think it's a pretty 774 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:12,640 rigorous uh, process between the city and the state and all the jurisdictions. 775 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:16,480 And what I gather from this is that there's going to be ongoing monitoring. 776 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:21,280 There's going to be new overlays for the eelgrass. 777 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:26,960 I do feel like um, there's a lot of safeguards in place. So everything I've 778 01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:31,200 read in the reports I'm satisfied with. I think if we wanted 779 01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:38,079 to add a condition that the eelgrass report 780 01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:43,440 be modified to specifically reflect the address of the site, I think I'm fine 781 01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:51,280 with that and it's probably a relatively easy um change to make. Um, 782 01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:56,319 as far as design review, you know, obviously the new dock is going to be a 783 01:05:53,680 --> 01:06:02,559 big improvement on the derelict thing that is there. And so, you know, I'm for 784 01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:07,440 one, I'm pretty happy to see applicants come through who are willing to go 785 01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:14,000 through the process and upgrade these structures that are out over the water. 786 01:06:09,839 --> 01:06:20,079 It needs to be done. um and the old ones cleared away for a variety of reasons. 787 01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:27,839 Um so for those reasons among other I'll be in 788 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:36,960 favor um of granting design resol design review and demolition. 789 01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:42,799 Um, I personally feel like, um, I want to strongly encourage the 790 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:48,559 applicant to work with the neighbors. I think it's outside of the purview for us 791 01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:54,160 to get involved in in a private road as this application stands. Maybe if the 792 01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:58,720 road was part of the application, we could have some input on that. We don't 793 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:04,400 have any drawings of the road. We don't have knowledge of the specific 794 01:07:00,799 --> 01:07:09,280 conditions. All we know is that there is some existing tensions, you know, 795 01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:14,960 between the neighboring properties. So, um I think under the circumstances, the 796 01:07:12,799 --> 01:07:20,720 the position that the planning commission can take is just to encourage 797 01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:26,480 the neighbors to work sincerely together and resolve their issues. That's kind of 798 01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:32,400 where I would leave the road. And personally, as far as the CTL goes, I 799 01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:37,920 think it's a rather technical issue and we're dealing already with multiple 800 01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:44,559 versions of the code because this is sort of grandfathered under a previous 801 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:52,319 version. Um, I would prefer to leave it in the hands of the staff. Um, and I I 802 01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:57,760 don't really think the CTL is so much the purview of the planning commission. 803 01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:01,520 So that's that's where I would would be on this. 804 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:06,960 » Sheriff Cidle, I'm sorry to interrupt. I did get um a message from Ben Jacobe 805 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:10,799 since the public hearing was opened. He would also like an opportunity to speak. 806 01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:14,960 » He wants to speak again. >> Yes, he does. 807 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:18,799 » Okay. Uh I'll reopen the public hearing. >> Mr. Jacobe, 808 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:22,600 » I'm going to promoting him to panelist right now. 809 01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,600 » Okay. 810 01:08:23,679 --> 01:08:28,120 Hi everybody. Can you hear me? Okay. 811 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,960 » Hello. Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. 812 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:39,040 » Okay, great. Thank you. Um, yes. So, just a couple quick things. Um, so the 813 01:08:36,480 --> 01:08:46,480 the question of the road, so just to be clear, the road that we're talking about 814 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:53,759 is owned by 43 Cliff. So it the road is part of of the applicant's real property 815 01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:58,880 and therefore it's subject to whatever permit that applicant has in front of 816 01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:03,600 you of which today essentially they're asking for a modification. And so when 817 01:09:01,759 --> 01:09:08,319 we see, you know, I'm just the business person, but when someone comes to me for 818 01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:12,640 a modification for a deal that they already cut, where they already agreed 819 01:09:09,839 --> 01:09:18,400 to a two-year limit, it gives rise to the opportunity to see how they're 820 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:24,719 performing and behaving otherwise in the deal. And so we're we're uh um 821 01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:29,520 demonstrating to you here that the road is an issue. Mark has said to me 822 01:09:27,759 --> 01:09:34,080 specifically that he does not want to repave the road until his project is 823 01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:38,640 done, which makes sense, right? Because he doesn't want to spend money now only 824 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:43,279 to have to redo it later when when the home is put up for sale. Again, these 825 01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:47,839 are homes that will be sold uh most likely whenever they're done. So, I 826 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:51,040 think you do have jurisdiction of the road. I think the fact that they're 827 01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:56,480 asking essentially for a permit modification 828 01:09:53,679 --> 01:10:02,080 gives rise to for you to impose whatever conditions you deem necessary based on 829 01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:06,880 their behavior to date. So we would like you to consider uh reconsider the 830 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:12,480 position on the road and make them do something today and not make us wait for 831 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:18,000 another two years before the road could be fixed to uh to uh you know an 832 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:21,679 acceptable condition. Thank you. 833 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:26,840 » Thank you. I will close the public hearing again. 834 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:40,560 So, um is there any further comment or 835 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:48,120 discussion from the commission before we um think about making motions on this 836 01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:48,120 project? Anybody have 837 01:10:52,960 --> 01:11:02,600 Okay. Um, would anybody like to take a stab at 838 01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:02,600 making a motion? 839 01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:15,360 » I can start the motion. Um, do you normally make a motion like one 840 01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:23,719 resolution at a time? Okay. Yeah. So, I'll start. Uh 841 01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:23,719 uh the first motion is let's see. 842 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:38,560 So, motion one is to adopt the resolution approving the initial study 843 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:46,239 mitigated negative declaration for the proposed project at 43 Cliff Road. 844 01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:49,120 Second. >> All in favor? 845 01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:53,120 » Isn't this the one that we are uh conditioning to provide a new 846 01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:58,960 » Yeah, let's talk about which one um >> because this is it says approving the 847 01:11:55,440 --> 01:12:02,920 initial study for the project at 43 which we don't even have. 848 01:12:03,679 --> 01:12:09,080 So, uh, I think this is probably 849 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:21,520 maybe we need to ask staff. So, I believe the suggestion here is 850 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:26,640 that it should be conditioned that the 851 01:12:23,679 --> 01:12:32,000 eelgrass report be modified to reflect the actual 852 01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:36,719 address of the project. Right? that we can we can do that. 853 01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:41,760 » The motion to do it on >> Yes, that's correct. 854 01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:44,400 » Does that seem right to you as >> Yes. 855 01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:49,760 » Okay. All right. Thank you, chair. >> Okay. Um, so we have a motion. Can 856 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:52,960 » I'll second that. Second that with the amendment to the motion. 857 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,960 » Okay. All in favor? >> I 858 01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:03,760 » Okay. And then the second motion is to adopt the resolution granting 859 01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:09,679 design review to construct a new pier at 43 Cliff Road. Um it refers to 860 01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:16,640 attachment too. Um and then maybe we need to discuss if there's any um 861 01:13:12,719 --> 01:13:21,679 » uh did you want to add a um condition related to as measured from 862 01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,560 that that the area >> Yeah. 863 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:26,880 » reflects the measurement from the mean high tide line. 864 01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:32,080 » Yeah. And I'm I'm looking at the resolution, the draft resolution in our 865 01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:38,480 pack commission packet. I only I see two references to the 450 foot. 866 01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:44,960 » Um so just clarify that it's a 400 fair 450 square foot pier as measured from 867 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:48,239 the mean high water line. >> Yeah. And and I think that's certainly a 868 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:50,960 fair comment. I'm not sure if it would be really conditioned. We just need to 869 01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:54,000 update the language of the resolution. Okay. There you go. 870 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,880 » To clarify that issue. Thank you, Commissioner. 871 01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,600 Is there a second? >> Second. 872 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:04,920 » All in favor? >> I 873 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,920 » I. 874 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:14,960 » And the third motion is to adopt the resolution granting demolition permit to 875 01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:21,600 demolish the existing 712 square foot pier at 43 Cliff Road. 876 01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:25,080 » Second. I 877 01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,080 » I 878 01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:31,120 » Okay, thank you everyone. The meeting is adjourned. 879 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:35,600 » I have one other thing. We didn't >> Sorry, the meeting is not 880 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:39,840 » We didn't adopt Do we adopt the draft minutes from the April meeting? 881 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,360 » It was part of the consent calendar, I believe. 882 01:14:40,239 --> 01:14:45,640 » Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Meeting adjourned. Thanks.