[0:01] We are recording now.
[0:05] » We actually
[0:11] » the city clerk kind of goes through them
and uploads them.
[0:15] » So I think the February and March the
last last two meetings are up on our
[0:20] website.
>> Yeah.
[0:21] » On the subcommittee page.
>> Okay. Well, why don't we jump in? Do we
[0:26] start roll call for John Tantum? uh a
community member.
[0:33] » Uh we'll say Peter Mark, council
representative,
[0:37] » Tony Boyd, public works director.
>> Chris Barry, associate engineer.
[0:42] » Uh Patrick Feder, finance committee
representative.
[0:46] » Okay, good. Um next is approving the
minutes from our March 25th meeting. Um
[0:54] which Tony, you had had you distributed
those previously? Those
[1:00] may have been a link on the website, but
it doesn't look like we have a print out
[1:05] of them here. Um, so yeah, if you
haven't seen them, we can certainly make
[1:11] them available for the next meeting. Um,
I'm not sure if there was um
[1:18] I think I said,
>> first of all, do we have is I can't vote
[1:22] anyway. Do we is two a quorum?
>> Yes,
[1:25] » it's two out of three, so I'm sure it's
fine.
[1:26] » Yeah.
>> Okay. Um yeah.
[1:29] » Um why don't we I I have not looked at
them. So why don't you not unless you
[1:35] feel otherwise let's let's not vote on
that now.
[1:37] » Yeah postpone that.
>> Yeah. Okay. That's that sounds good. And
[1:42] my apologies for that because um I
assume that with the agenda.
[1:49] » Okay. So that brings us to the meeting
itself. And Tony, your um memo dated
[1:55] yesterday was a useful summary. So I'll
turn it to you to to go through that and
[1:59] hit the the key points of discussion.
>> All right. Great. Yep. Thank you. Um
[2:05] chair.
[2:11] So I'm just seeing a phone call from
Adrian. Looks like I can email him the
[2:17] length. Yeah. Yeah. You should have it
on the website, but
[2:22] um we're being joined by Adrien Vier,
who's the construction manager. Um
[2:29] yeah, so uh the purpose of this meeting
is to uh update you on on the
[2:34] developments um that have uh occurred uh
since since we last met. Um and
[2:43] um I can run through my memo and share a
couple of images of some of the uh some
[2:50] of the details in it. Um
so starting with the contract, city
[2:56] council approved the contract um as was
uh well u recommended by this committee
[3:02] and staff uh to Gordon uh awarded to
Gordon Nball Construction
[3:08] um and that's been executed. So all the
communications with them are now formal
[3:13] communications and um they've um provi
pro provided some submittals and um yeah
[3:20] so we are moving forward with them.
We've actually had a pre-construction
[3:23] meeting um to establish you know sort of
the uh lines of communication and so on.
[3:30] Um and we've also had um an on-site
meeting which I'll get into a little bit
[3:36] later. But uh
as far as the project goes, starting
[3:41] with the permits, we have two
outstanding permits. Uh BCDC have
[3:45] approved um our application. Um but
their draft permit is in review and um
[3:53] they're unable to give us an exact date.
They say they are trying to expedite it,
[3:58] but the only definite date that we know
from them is they're uh they have to
[4:03] provide us with something by uh June the
22nd. Um, so that's uh BCDC.
[4:10] » So can you what does BCDC stand for?
>> Uh, that's the Bay Area um conservation
[4:15] and development commission.
>> Yeah.
[4:18] » Yeah. Um, and they um they regulate uh
activities in the water um from um I
[4:27] believe it's the the mean high tide line
uh uh to 100 ft in land. Um, so yeah,
[4:34] everything in that zone has to be
approved by them.
[4:37] » So the June 22nd deadline, is that for a
a permit or is could they like something
[4:42] other than a permit by then like a like
a postponement or a
[4:45] » Oh, no, that's that's for a permit. So
yeah, that's uh yeah, they've said that
[4:51] uh the draft that they have is for a um
approved an approved permit.
[4:56] » Yeah.
>> And you have a you have a a completeness
[4:59] confirmation
or or or there equivalency of that? Um,
[5:05] I'm not sure. I mean, I I can uh
>> because to John's point, if they they
[5:09] determine to pro the the I'm sure that
they're referring to the streamline
[5:13] permitting act, permitting streamlining
act, I should say. Um, if they determine
[5:18] something's not complete, that will
invalidate that date.
[5:22] » Yeah. So, my understanding is that they
um they confirmed that that the
[5:26] application is complete upon in uh sort
of in the first stage. Um it was then
[5:31] approved um and then um the the permit
was drafted and is now in review. Um
[5:38] that's that's my understanding and I and
I I can certainly confirm that with our
[5:42] consultants to just make sure that
there's there's no possibility of any um
[5:46] any detours.
>> I certainly think the permitting process
[5:49] we should you know cross our tees and
dot our eyes just make sure at every
[5:53] step of the way that
>> Yeah.
[5:55] » we're not doing something or leaving
something off the table and that needs
[5:58] to be done.
>> Right. Yeah. again and yeah I can
[6:03] certainly um
make sure that uh that we get some some
[6:07] of those details um yeah the second
outstanding one is the Army Corps of
[6:11] Engineers um
and that's been quite a frustrating
[6:16] process um but
to to uh to summarize where we are now
[6:23] with them is is that um they uh they've
started a form consultation process,
[6:31] which means that they forward our
application to other agencies for
[6:35] review. Um, and it seems like Noah, um,
fisheries in particular were interested
[6:42] in in a more formal review. Um, so we've
now met with them and their biologist um
[6:51] to really to just try and um move this
thing along as quickly as possible. um
[6:57] ask if there's any information that we
still need to provide. Um they had said
[7:04] uh prelim before the meeting they had
said we will likely need a a survey um a
[7:09] benthographic survey of the eel grass um
beds near in the vicinity which our
[7:16] consultant thought was unreasonable um
that that there's there are no eel grass
[7:21] beds within
uh 40 50 ft of the site. Um and
[7:27] » if that I mean does the marinas have
anything? I mean they couldn't be
[7:31] conducting marine activities if they're
eager there right I mean isn't that
[7:35] » well um yeah I think if that is the is
the main thing yeah it's the the problem
[7:42] was so he had done a survey and he's a
he's a biologist himself so he's able to
[7:46] provide a a sort of you know a survey
within the within the guidelines that
[7:51] they that they need um but it was from
land with binoculars um and they wanted
[7:56] something more substantial okay um he
feels that this is not not unfortunately
[8:03] not that uncommon sometimes because but
if they just don't have very much
[8:07] information about an area they might uh
they might like to get that and they'll
[8:10] use a project like this to obtain it.
But we were able to um uh you know with
[8:17] with a another consultant um able to
explain to them um what what it looks
[8:22] like out here um and they said they'd be
fine with a preliminary slogan. So, um,
[8:29] at this point, that's what we're doing.
We are, uh, we have a pre, uh, a
[8:35] proposal for a preliminary survey. Um,
and then the potential, uh,
[8:40] pre-construction survey and post
construction survey are lined up as well
[8:44] in case in case that's needed.
>> When when we did the uh, prior beach
[8:49] wall retrofit, didn't we have to go
through this?
[8:53] » Nope. Nope. And believe it or not, it
was the same uh reviewer from from Noah
[8:59] um who said it wasn't needed at that
time.
[9:01] » So was involved with a preliminary
survey. Is this something we have to
[9:03] contract you to come do the
>> Yes. Yeah. So we have a qualified um
[9:09] there's a there's a company I I don't
know exactly what the sort of
[9:12] certifications are that are needed, but
um it's uh it's a company out of San
[9:17] Francisco that's familiar with Noah um
sort of parameters of what they need. Um
[9:23] they're going to come out at low tide uh
walk out as far as they can in the water
[9:27] and identify if there are any signs of
of wheelgrass. Um and I believe probably
[9:34] similar to what what our our consultant
had done previously just from the land
[9:39] estimating a distance of any signs of
egrass
[9:43] um and then presenting it as you know in
a in a sort of a formal report. So they
[9:49] have not done that yet. Is that
scheduled to be done? But yeah, we're
[9:52] we're um we're working through the
details of the contract right now. Um
[9:55] they just need some insurance um changes
for us to be able to for them to
[10:01] schedule the work and get the contract
signed and and move forward with that.
[10:06] Um but that said, um the the Noah
biologist said that she would finish up
[10:12] her um she was she she uh she was fine
with our assurances that we were going
[10:18] to go ahead and do it. um we need the
permit, you know, if this is what we
[10:22] need to do, then fine, let's do it. Um
and um you know, she said it would be in
[10:28] the conditions. So, um she was happy to
finalize all of her review and send it
[10:32] back to the Army Corp of Engineers.
Um yeah, when we asked, you know, what
[10:38] how long did did she think that would
take um she said mid June probably
[10:44] » until she gets hers to the armed?
>> Yes. Yeah. until she finalizes
[10:48] everything she needs to do. Um yeah,
there's a little bit of back and forth.
[10:53] Um she she uh she noted that um that
they had lost 40% of their staff and
[11:00] that um this was this this project was
actually close to the top of of her pile
[11:05] of of of work in in her inbox, I guess.
But in any case, um they
[11:14] uh she expects to return it to the Army
Corps of Engineers uh in June um mid
[11:18] middle of June. um communications with
with the construction manager um who uh
[11:27] is familiar with with these permits,
more familiar than I am certainly um
[11:31] said that they can they usually turn it
around quite quickly once once the army
[11:36] have received their documentation. Um
but we don't have we don't have an exact
[11:41] timeline for that. Um and they don't
have the same statutory uh limits that
[11:48] we dec. Uh so
um
[11:53] so at this point that's that's as far as
we know um for that permit and
[11:59] um
yeah we're we're um in touch with them
[12:05] constantly reminding them that uh we
have a schedule and that's our deadline.
[12:10] the window that we're working in started
starts on June the 1st and closes on
[12:14] October 30th. That's the environmental
window. Um if if it goes beyond October
[12:21] 30th, we need special permission for
that. Um and it's usually either a daily
[12:25] or a weekly uh permit that we obtain. So
it's not something that's that we plan
[12:31] on having to do.
Um but yeah that is the sort of the
[12:36] loose end that we don't um don't have
any control of right now. Um yeah
[12:47] moving on to utility coordination. Um
and I will actually share my screen here
[12:54] so we can take a look at the utilities
on the site.
[13:13] Is it usually to turn into a panelist?
[13:25] Nice.
[13:29] All right. those attendees people who
should be at the meeting.
[13:32] » It's Yes, it's Adrian Cormier the
commander. Do you want to put him up? I
[13:38] mean, because he he can't talk if he's
not
[13:43] elevated to a panelist, I think.
[14:01] up any second.
Um, I'm just going to turn the screen. I
[14:05] think it might be him.
[14:12] » See,
[14:21] just uh gives us a a view of of what
we're dealing with in here.
[14:27] Um the main
the main work that needs to happen
[14:32] before the project is a P Gen joint
trench which is this yellow and black
[14:37] line. Um want to get up there? Maybe.
Yeah, that would be good. Thanks, Chris.
[14:45] Delay. There we go. Yep. It's that
yellow and black line over there. Um is
[14:50] it also the one on the other side of it
too?
[14:53] Right there. Chris to your left. Right
here. Nope. card right there.
[14:57] » Oh, that that's a Comcast.
>> Okay. Yeah, that is also yellow and
[15:01] black, your own. Um
Yeah. Okay. Um that's not a joint trench
[15:06] that Comcast using, but they are
participating in the joint trench on the
[15:10] right hand side of the screen. So, that
joint trench will be removing um all of
[15:16] the existing utilities which are shown
with the the black uh hash marks through
[15:20] them. Um uh so they're all going to be
replaced with this with um this joint
[15:25] trench here um that's going to reconnect
all the homes. Um that will be in place
[15:30] before the project so that when uh
excavation begins and the sheet piles
[15:34] all go in and this road the inroad
alignment um there's going to be no
[15:40] disruptions to uh to the properties uh
because of that. Um
[15:46] » do they dig up the old services or just
abandon them where they are? I I believe
[15:51] they just abandoned them. Yeah. Yeah.
>> They usually just cut and cap.
[15:54] » Yeah.
>> At the end they'll be there.
[15:57] » Yeah. Um the the water line that's shown
over there, there's a 4-in water line.
[16:03] um will be a separate uh project and the
water district will be um I think they
[16:10] have already installed a um a temporary
two temporary shut off valves and pipe
[16:15] that they'll be able to so when the when
the road is excavated and the sheet pile
[16:20] work begins they'll come and uh shut off
valves remove their pipe let the sheep
[16:24] pile pass and then uh return it um as
soon as it's complete. Um why why are
[16:31] they able to cross the sheep piles where
otherwise can't? Well um the main reason
[16:36] is they're actually more nimble. Um so
they can be there uh on the day or uh in
[16:41] the morning of of uh the the
construction. Um and so they can plan to
[16:46] just be there for that wait until the
the sheet paths have passed and then
[16:50] restore the the line. Um PG& can't
guarantee that. Um so the options for EG
[16:56] were either to um uh install a bypass a
temporary bypass uh for until
[17:02] construction was complete um and then
and then reconnect their line um or um
[17:08] reconfigure their their holes. Um
>> so that's their only penetration for all
[17:12] those properties below it and it goes
horizontally from there.
[17:16] » Yes, exactly. Um and
>> so that's all the water needs to do is
[17:20] what Chris showed us that one line.
That's that's it. just need to
[17:24] disconnect and connect
>> to bypass the the work.
[17:27] » Yeah. Just for that and then the normal
connection is remain.
[17:31] » Yep. Exactly.
>> That makes sense.
[17:33] » Yeah. Um and that's so that's gas uh
there are two two gas lines actually. So
[17:39] the two uh coming down from the other
side of the street that are that have
[17:44] hash marks and then a single electric
line um that are being abandoned and
[17:48] replaced.
>> Yeah. Over there um sewer. There's a
[17:53] sewer district line which is the green
one on the left hand side. Uh that's
[17:57] actually a private lateral that goes to
to the sewer district line. Um and that
[18:03] uh the the contractor will be um uh
excavating exposing and um uh similar
[18:10] thing to what the water district's
doing. Cathley
[18:14] or um
>> Gordon
[18:16] » uh Gordon and B. Yeah. So when they do
that figure area, they'll just literally
[18:21] cap cap and we connect.
>> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
[18:27] Um
Yeah. Uh Comcast. Okay. So the next
[18:32] » Do we know what that is? I mean, could
that be Play in the street?
[18:37] » Uh I don't recall. Did we I know there
was San Die. They don't know. It's not
[18:44] their line, right? So it could be could
be
[18:49] » Yeah. Right. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Exactly. That we we were hoping to
[18:52] do the same thing on West West Shore a
couple years ago and we're expecting it
[18:56] to be PVC and it wasn't and that caused
some problems
[18:59] » really. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Clay is
is a lot a lot more difficult to
[19:03] » Well, you can't you can't cut and
replace as easily,
[19:06] » right? Yeah. Um
>> they'll they'll be prepared, I imagine.
[19:12] » Yes. Yeah. And it's kind of on them to
Yeah. to be prepared. Um
[19:19] thankfully, not that we don't want to
also know, but um yeah. Um
[19:27] so let's see the the next area of
utilities is
[19:32] not really shown in this in this image
uh because these are all the PG ones.
[19:37] But um I will get to the right page here
[19:44] and
yeah we can we can look at these gang
[19:48] ways. Um
so over here as you can see we've got um
[19:54] at gangway one we've got water, gas and
electric that all um converge at gangway
[20:00] one. And then um that's how they um
that's how this building this first
[20:07] building 16 to 20 beach road um uh has
its utilities. Uh gangway 2 has no
[20:15] utilities and gangway 3 has water and
sewer and uh Comcast cable.
[20:21] Um, and that's a different part of my uh
memo here, but um,
[20:31] yeah, so I don't want to jump to that
too soon.
[20:39] My notes,
[20:44] right? I mean, none of the utilities
you've been talking to have have raised
[20:49] timing issues or obstacles with the
schedule. Is that is that correct or
[20:54] what's the summary there?
>> Um, right. Yeah, thank you. Um, the PG&
[20:59] were the were the main concern because
um they had to schedule a fairly big
[21:04] project for that joint trench. Um, and
the interesting thing with PG& is that
[21:10] gas and electric are almost separate
entities. they they really barely ever
[21:15] communicate with each other and so
getting them to communicate for a joint
[21:18] trench was was interesting. Um we do
have a date from them though. Um it took
[21:24] took a little it took a while but they
finally got a date to us and that is
[21:28] last week of June and first week of July
is when they have scheduled this work.
[21:33] Um they've applied for encroachment
permits. So that's um
[21:38] uh they've assured us that that's um
that's the soonest they can get to it.
[21:42] Um and and they are um they're committed
to it.
[21:47] » Okay.
>> Yeah. And that when they do that, their
[21:49] work will include uh temporary electric
service uh for the for the private um uh
[21:56] facil the private buildings over here.
Um that we'll get to in a minute. Um
[22:02] » and their work would could could go
whether we're we've been or not.
[22:07] » Correct. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It
needs to happen before the project. um
[22:12] in any case.
>> Mhm.
[22:13] » Um so yeah, it's yeah, just that they're
doing it is uh is the main thing. Um
[22:22] » but none of the other utilities and you
didn't mention AT&T. Are they are they
[22:25] there too? Is that another
>> No, they're not. Um so they had a copper
[22:30] uh a co a single copper wire um that
they uh that was not in in service and
[22:36] is is won't be brought back into use.
So, uh, they were happy to abandon that.
[22:42] » So, it's only Comcast that's providing
TCO.
[22:44] » Correct. Yeah. Yeah. They're the only,
uh, provider up there. Okay. Yeah.
[22:52] » Um, yeah.
>> Would you put in would you would it make
[22:55] sense to put an additional conduit for
future expansion? I mean, I know Toner,
[22:59] we've talked about broader um, telecom
and fiber and other connectivity. Um
[23:05] would would it would it be I mean they
were talking about that with the 131
[23:08] project is just laying down conduit for
some future you know service provider.
[23:15] » It's an interesting thought. Um I think
uh because the and maybe that might uh
[23:22] might be useful for the inroad work. Um
but I think because the the the the top
[23:29] height elevation of the the sheet piles
is quite far down the wall. Um, anything
[23:34] that would need to come through to the
homes would be above the definition.
[23:37] » I know. Why rip it up? I mean, that's if
you're if if you
[23:42] » Yeah.
>> It's not appropriate.
[23:44] » Yeah. Yeah. No, but it's I mean, it's
like while while we have it open.
[23:48] » Actually, surprised AT&T's not wanting
to throw it in there while they're
[23:52] » Well, I I think I think um normal
telecom is just abandoning, you know,
[23:56] area after area.
>> Yeah. Um that that was the issue with
[23:59] 131 is that no one wants to service this
area with anything wired. they they
[24:03] don't want to take it's just not it's
just not worth their they won't get the
[24:06] service agreements down the road for the
level of uh infrastructure improvements.
[24:11] » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. It's
amazing. Comcast and AT&T whenever we
[24:16] deal with them on anything um to try and
be proactive. For example, uh temporary
[24:21] service here that will be that will be
needed. Um they are very reluctant to to
[24:27] do anything. They're um pretty much the
only time that they will come out
[24:33] definitely is is when um when
something's broken and they need to
[24:38] repair it or
>> our contractors, Gordon, they should
[24:41] they should be able to do it. Yeah. It's
not high technology.
[24:45] » Correct. Yeah. And that's So, we're
actually doing that. We're basically
[24:47] setting the whole thing up for them to
be able to pull their wire through for a
[24:51] temporary connect and they've uh and
they've confirmed that they'll be
[24:55] » uh they'll they'll be there for that.
But yeah, they, you know, they're not
[24:58] having to do any work for it. They just,
you know, arrive and plug it in. Um, but
[25:04] that's fine. It's not, you know, it's
not, it's not difficult, uh, or costly
[25:08] work. Um, yeah, two more things with the
utilities. Actually, going back to that,
[25:14] um, and speaking of,
um,
[25:19] Comcast,
[25:24] hold on.
[25:30] Uh so that uh that line that you pointed
out on the left hand side over there uh
[25:35] that is that is a Comcast line. Um so
that will reconnect uh their line that's
[25:41] going to be um cut with with the sheet
piles. So they have two two access uh
[25:46] lines to these buildings. One one from
that that side and the other that will
[25:51] now be coming through the joint trench
on the other side.
[25:54] Um,
another issue that um, uh, when we met
[26:00] with the contractor and and these
utilities on site, another issue that
[26:04] um, came to light was a a sewer line
that was
[26:10] u basically at main road that hadn't
been been marked in the uh, in the
[26:15] original surveys or the initial surveys
of the site. So are not isn't shown in
[26:19] the plan. Um, and that runs under the
seaw wall. Uh so um that's going to have
[26:25] to be dealt with uh one way or another.
Um it's about 10 ft from the end of the
[26:30] um that the the extent of the the sheet
piles. Um so that's something that we're
[26:36] going to uh we're going to ask the
contractor for a submitt for how to um
[26:41] uh bridge that bridge over that.
>> Sorry, I was writing what was that was
[26:45] that service for?
>> Yeah. So there's a it's a sewer line
[26:49] that wasn't marked uh in the first uh
you know in the first stages of the
[26:53] design really when all the utilities
were being marked out. Um and yeah and
[27:02] I can show a picture of that as well but
um but yeah the the important thing
[27:08] really is that it's there.
Um
[27:12] yeah,
let's see. Um
[27:19] so that's where we are with utilities.
Basically that loose end is is is is
[27:24] tied up as far as PG& are concerned. Um
where the modifications are concerned
[27:29] with the private utilities I'll move
into next because um that's an area that
[27:35] we're we're looking at quite closely
right now. um
[27:40] uh the the team feels that there is
potential for um improvement in that
[27:45] area. Um the the engineering design
originally called for uh for the seaw
[27:51] wall um or or the sheet pile alignment
on the outside of the seaw wall uh to to
[27:57] cross through all of these gang ways. Um
>> yeah,
[28:00] » sorry. Yes. under the gang ways. Um
which means removing the gang ways um
[28:06] and uh making sure that all the
utilities to the residents are not uh
[28:14] are not impacted or you know bypasses
and temporary services are provided and
[28:18] so on. Um, so you can see the total
alignment here. The area that we're
[28:22] talking about is sort of just actually
in the overlap pretty much of those uh,
[28:28] yeah, it's uh, those
>> those three gang ways right there,
[28:31] right?
>> Those two and and gang way one as well
[28:33] actually is what we've been um, focused
on. Um
[28:40] there's
um the original proposal for those um
[28:47] was for the alignment that's in the
street um alignment B um basically to
[28:54] continue um past all the gangways and uh
and then uh overlap with the the
[29:01] alignment on the seabboard side just as
it does right there. So that sorry just
[29:04] so that's the blue line there extending
past all the one on the the top the
[29:09] topmost blue line extending all the way
past the gang way number one is that was
[29:13] the correct
>> yeah exactly that was the original
[29:15] proposal
um and after looking at it closely the
[29:21] design engineers uh and speaking to the
um the geotech um
[29:28] found that it was it it was not
cost-ffective um
[29:33] uh the the the costly part of that is
the the beams that need to go across
[29:37] from the the
the sheet piles in the street need these
[29:42] reinforced beams that to connect to the
seaw wall. Um and that that would have
[29:46] been very costly. Um
uh the other thing actually is that at
[29:52] gangway one there's a a cluster of of
utilities in the street um that would
[29:57] have made it very difficult uh for the
contractor to to install the the sheet
[30:03] piles there.
Um,
[30:05] » so, so, so at the end of the
>> building, I don't know the address, I
[30:10] can't see that. But before the Gangway
building,
[30:13] » you've now shifted that to the water
side to the extent of the gangway
[30:18] building,
right? That that that upper blue line
[30:22] was longer to the right before. Now it's
longer to the left below it, right?
[30:27] » Yeah. Well, so that's Yeah, exactly. And
this actually came up in the early
[30:31] stages of of the design but was
discussed um just because it was you
[30:35] know clear that there were going to be
issues over here. Um so this is this
[30:39] this is the original design right now.
There's there's an overlap over here and
[30:44] um this this alignment over here has
these these reinforced beams that go
[30:48] across and connect to the uh to the seaw
wall with these helical anchors that are
[30:53] all um driven in as well. Um so the
first proposal was to basically extend
[30:59] that just past that that gang way that
there's that same kind of overlap over
[31:03] here and then continue on the on the
seabboard side over there. Um yeah it
[31:09] wasn't cost effective and the geotech
>> this is the yeah this but this is a
[31:14] revised plan. This is revisit
>> yeah this is revised from the early
[31:20] design conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So this
is this is the this is the 100% plan
[31:26] that um that went out for bid.
>> It was one considered before that that
[31:30] where that extended that
>> got it wall.
[31:32] » Exactly. It was considered an early
stage of design and um what brought it
[31:36] up?
>> I'm sorry. So this is better or we're
[31:38] going back to what was considered
before.
[31:41] » Well, so this is this is in place
basically um you know until
[31:45] construction, but we are uh trying to
find ways to improve it.
[31:49] » So you'd rather put it in the street
where those gangways are? Um that was so
[31:54] yeah where the gang ways are is where is
where there's there's a sort of complex
[31:59] set of issues. Um so putting it in the
street was one was one option um that uh
[32:05] that the team looked at um and you first
of all it wasn't cost effective because
[32:10] of the beams. Um second of all the
geotechnical engineer um was uh
[32:19] there are issues with it from the
geotechnical perspective because it
[32:22] doesn't provide toe protection for the
seaw wall.
[32:25] » Um so right now there's erosion that's
happening from this from from the waves
[32:31] over here.
>> Um but there's a building right here
[32:34] right on the seaw wall. So the erosion
doesn't doesn't impact this section of
[32:39] the seaw wall as much as it does does
over here. And in fact this section over
[32:43] here is where it's where it's the worst.
Um so over here it's acceptable to the
[32:48] geotech to put the uh to put the
alignment behind the the seaw wall and
[32:53] connect it with with with beams. But
over here he was he wasn't he didn't
[32:58] like that idea. Basically, um he
basically said if you're going to do
[33:02] that, if you're going to have this
extended out to here, then you'd also
[33:07] have to add toe protection on this side
of the wall in any case. Um because
[33:12] because that would, you know, you're
losing that then.
[33:16] That makes sense. Yeah. You'd be cutting
this out. See this this part of the of
[33:21] the alignment would be removed um and
and basically moved to the back of the
[33:25] seaw wall over here which would leave
the front or the front of the concrete
[33:28] seaw wall there exposed.
>> Right. But now you're considering an
[33:31] alternate to this currently and what
what might that look like? What might
[33:37] the new lead alternate be?
>> Yeah. So it's we're I I I can share
[33:43] uh with you what we u exactly what we've
been discussing. Uh this would probably
[33:50] be helpful. Um and
uh yeah,
[34:00] it up here. But
[34:34] So, this is probably quite useful. Um,
[34:42] I'll share what I was uh what I was just
talking about first.
[34:56] Okay. So yeah, basically that's
uh yeah, the very basic sketch of what
[35:04] was being discussed. Uh so
along the top there would be uh would be
[35:10] the new the continued alignment of the
sheet piles and then you'd have these
[35:14] beams going across uh to the to the seaw
wall. Um, yeah. So, that's
[35:19] » But I thought I said I thought you said
they didn't want to do that.
[35:23] » Yeah, correct. Yeah. Sorry. I'm really
just illustrating. Um,
[35:26] » okay. Sorry.
>> Uh,
[35:28] » so that's not that's not proposed
either. That's that that was one. We're
[35:32] at two. You're trying to You're
proposing three.
[35:36] » Uh, yes, exactly. And it's really just
to give you an idea of of um how this
[35:42] has all been discussed and how you know
kind of different ideas have been
[35:46] arrived at. Um
[35:51] and yeah so I can share what we have
here.
[36:03] This is what we're discussing right now.
[36:09] Um, so it's a much more subsurgical
approach.
[36:14] Um,
[36:18] I guess
[36:28] I can Yeah, just to do a quick run
through. Uh, so basically these red
[36:32] lines over here.
um
[36:35] » say a little better.
>> That's right. Yeah, I think it is. Um
[36:40] would be where new alignments would be.
So basically at each gang way. Um so we
[36:45] put the two gangs here, one there and
one here. Um we've actually moved on
[36:50] from this design because we discussed
this with the contractor and said how
[36:55] feasible do you think this would be? Uh
before we go into you know get a a
[36:59] technical drawing to you. Um they looked
at it carefully. they came back and said
[37:05] that this gang way over here is not
doable not not like this because of all
[37:09] these utilities that you've got in this
area. Um their uh their recommendation
[37:15] is to stick with the plan, remove the
remove this gang way and keep with the
[37:20] the outboard alignment of sheet piles.
Um so we've taken that on board. Um over
[37:27] here
um this is this is a complicated gang
[37:32] way because you have a sewer line that
actually runs on both sides of the gang
[37:35] way quite low down closer to the water.
Um and um you also have a water line
[37:42] that runs through there. Um the sewer
line runs all the way around the
[37:47] footing. There's a concrete footing
under this gang way and part of it would
[37:51] be above exactly above where the where
this uh where this the sheet piles would
[37:56] be driven in. So that would all have to
be removed temporarily, bypasses
[38:01] installed possibly with pumps um and and
then restored afterwards, which is which
[38:07] is complicated. Um and so this section
here, this gang doesn't have any
[38:12] utilities. So this is actually the
easiest gang to remove. Um the only
[38:16] disruption to residents is access. Um
right now um we're down to this one. Um
[38:24] so basically over here at this gang way
number three it's called um the the
[38:31] um the sheet piles on the on the
outboard side would be up would start
[38:36] over here, end over here and then on
this side they would start here and
[38:41] continue over there. uh and and we're
going to have a uh a section of sheet
[38:46] pile under the sidewalk. This is the
proposal. We've yet to see the the cost.
[38:50] Um it seems like it should be cost
effective, especially considering all
[38:53] the utility kind of uh work that would
be that would be needed for it. It also
[38:58] would be less disruptive for the
residents uh because um it would make it
[39:02] would keep access open for longer
wouldn't be removed. Um
[39:07] » so the 30 foot um sheet pile installed
along the back of the seaw wall that
[39:13] wouldn't
penetrate or interfere with utilities.
[39:19] It would erode right. So yes there there
would still be utility work needed over
[39:24] here but it would be um a lot easier
basically under the sidewalk over here
[39:30] it would be a problem. Um, but over here
it's it's doable
[39:35] or it's I should say it's it's not as
complicated to do it under the sidewalk
[39:40] as it is to do it under the gang way.
>> Is it cheaper to do that or is it just
[39:43] because you can't because you're not
removing the gang ways?
[39:46] » Um, well, we've we've yet to get an
actual proposal from them with with
[39:50] cost. Um, but um the gang way the gang
way removal is fairly straightforward.
[39:56] It's a carpentry task that's um it's it
involves some custom work. So it's it it
[40:01] it's it's it is detailed. Um but because
the utilities are servicing the homes
[40:06] with people in there and they need to be
maintained, that's what makes um all the
[40:12] utility work um costly really.
>> No, I know. I'm trying to I'm trying to
[40:16] understand how this option is less
expensive than removing it, installing
[40:21] the sheet piles as planned and put
putting the gang ways back because you
[40:24] still have utility work.
The only difference seems to be you're
[40:27] not doing you're putting inland sheet
piles versus waterbound sheet piles and
[40:32] you're even putting the shallow sheet
piles there for aesthetic purposes. It's
[40:35] it says in a note so I don't understand
outside of sheep are optional. It may be
[40:39] I'm just I don't I'm not
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's um and maybe
[40:43] let me show you a picture of that gang
way so we can get a sense.
[40:46] » We don't need to get into too much
detail. I I guess
[40:50] if if it's cheaper because you're not
remove the gang way. That's the answer.
[40:54] Pardon me.
>> It may that's the answer because if if
[40:56] it's if that if that inbound just
against the wall rebolted we don't have
[41:01] to do the this the the the detach
separate connectors which you talked
[41:06] about before. Um
I remember last meeting we talked about
[41:10] that and there was a question is why why
are we detaching it so far? like why
[41:14] don't you put it right up against the
wall and here they seem to be proposing
[41:18] this now but there was some reason why
you didn't put it up against the wall
[41:20] the whole way because I didn't think
there was a question why you doing
[41:23] anything water bound why wouldn't you
just put it right along the wall on the
[41:26] inside and bolt it to the wall
>> right
[41:28] » and there was some discussion that it
was better to give some distance
[41:32] especially where the building was
>> yeah um that's that's a very good point
[41:37] and I don't recall what that was why we
why we're not doing it directly under
[41:42] the sidewalk instead
under the curve. Do you remember Chris?
[41:45] » Yeah, it's to protect um
rotation a little better.
[41:51] » Um no, no. So further away. Why are we
doing it further away for a human being?
[41:56] » Well, these ones out here you mean?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[41:58] » Um I think this also said they couldn't
get close enough to the building to do
[42:02] it when where the building is. You had
to do it some distance out because the
[42:06] machinery wouldn't couldn't come up
against a wall,
[42:08] » right? So that is definitely one one
factor. Um, but I'm saying if if there's
[42:12] some logic and we don't need to spend
too much time this is beyond our this is
[42:16] your guys expertise by by all means. Um,
but if there's some logic that is more
[42:20] it's more in effect it's more cost
effective with the exception of where
[42:24] the building is because of the agency of
the building itself.
[42:27] » Um to put it inside the wall.
>> Yeah.
[42:30] » Um why would you do that everywhere? I
mean but if it's only because you you're
[42:36] not removing the gang way that might be
the answer.
[42:38] » Yeah I guess. Well, that's yeah, that's
definitely a part of it. Um I think so
[42:41] the utilities are still a complication.
It's it's still um I think the I think
[42:49] over here the different one of the
differences here is that so
[42:56] yeah the the erosion was the erosion is
is worse on the wall over here. Um
[43:00] because of the building that's that's uh
right here that butts up against the
[43:05] wall. There's protection of the wall
over here. So it's not as critical for
[43:09] the for the sheet piles to be close to
the wall.
[43:13] » Um so that's one thing. So they can be
further away and there are utilities in
[43:17] the sidewall. So it's not as you're not
dealing with utilities as much by having
[43:22] it further away. Um over here um you
have utilities. You're going to have to
[43:27] deal with them. Um but you also have
have to be under the sidewall because uh
[43:33] the erosion is uh uh worse here um that
the walls experiencing and there's no
[43:39] protection other than um you know other
than this this alignment. Uh and the
[43:46] protection over here would would still
be needed. Um it would be a slight
[43:50] option of basically matching the the
rest of the seaw wall there. It just
[43:54] wouldn't go down 32 feet. it would be a
um a formed concrete.
[43:58] » So if you were to this is being
considered but it doesn't change the
[44:02] timeline or or it could fit within our
original timeline and and broad budget
[44:09] essentially.
>> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. The the the timeline
[44:13] would would stay the same would remain
the same. Um and it would have to be
[44:18] cost effective. It would have to be um
worth
[44:22] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. and and um yeah, I
mean there you know that uh disruption
[44:28] to the residents and um project
coordination really are are the main
[44:34] things we're looking at. So um Hadley uh
construction were um that's who we
[44:44] had originally planned to do this work.
um
[44:48] their uh their costs are seem to be
quite fluid. Unfortunately, they haven't
[44:54] been able to give us an exact price of
how you know what what what it'll cost
[44:58] to do all this work. They would prefer
to work with a time and materials
[45:01] contract and um we're not comfortable
with that uh for a start. Uh and then
[45:08] the other thing is now that we have some
unit prices from this contractor um we
[45:13] may be able to uh you know we've asked
them to provide a a quote for the for a
[45:18] similar work some of it would still be
in Hadley's uh plants but um yeah so
[45:24] » this is so so the 270
if I remember correctly
[45:29] » um you're not getting a firm contract
from Hadley so you're considering having
[45:34] Gordon and Ball do some of it and Hadley
do the rest of it but still stay within
[45:38] 270 if they're
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, the costs um
[45:43] Yeah. those costs that 270 um has, you
know, has has shifted and it's moved up
[45:50] basically. They're above 300,000 now.
So, um and yeah,
[45:55] » but that but you're saying that because
you but you're not additively that is
[45:58] » additely. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And so, that's the way you're describing
[46:02] them being fluid or or
>> Yes, exactly. um they um
[46:08] it it's it's been quite difficult to to
get a um a set price from them. Um they
[46:15] you know and they've explained they've
been transparent about it. They said we
[46:17] we need to add a cushion in here. If
we're going to give you a set price, we
[46:20] need enough of a cushion to be
comfortable. um and you know um they
[46:26] would prefer to work with time and
materials but in that case then they
[46:30] they're not comfortable with not to
exceed amount of you know um
[46:34] » and are they are they the the only in
town I mean are they
[46:38] » no exactly this is the so and the reason
that Hadley's were specified is because
[46:42] they've just done this work they they
built those gangways less than two years
[46:46] ago and installed all of those utilities
so they're familiar with the
[46:49] configuration of the utilities the the
layout of the uh scaffolding and
[46:53] everything that they needed before. Um,
as far as efficiency goes, they would be
[46:58] able to be in there, do the work, and
get out of there. Um, so it made sense.
[47:02] Um, they're also, you know, familiar
with the residents, um, and have worked
[47:07] in these buildings, I believe, many
times.
[47:10] Um, but yeah, there's there's a couple
of issues. One of them is that they're
[47:15] not a union, um, shop. Um, and this the
contractor is. Um so um construction sh
[47:24] construction site um sharing uh is
apparently a problem. Um I think even
[47:32] without union issues I think there are
you know there's there's there can be
[47:36] friction and it's something that the
prime contractor B um they basically
[47:41] said we would prefer to control the
whole project um and if you can allow us
[47:45] to do that we can give you a proposal uh
for for this work uh including the
[47:50] modifications. So um
>> are you doing that?
[47:53] » Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We're preparing a yeah
it's it's actually it's kind of as
[47:58] speed. um uh the design engineers are
putting together a conceptual sketch
[48:02] that we're going to send out to them to
get get past.
[48:07] Is there is there any rationale to um I
mean considering that that time is of
[48:11] the essence from a you know with our
water bound work um is there any work
[48:17] that Hadley could be doing to before the
union contractors are on site with
[48:21] permit since since we have control over
the the work that Hadley is doing
[48:25] arguably
>> can they can they advance that work
[48:29] could they be doing that sooner than the
project
[48:32] » um yes um and and in fact the, you know,
um, Hadley are are still they're not off
[48:40] the table. Uh, because if we get a quote
back from a contractor that's that's
[48:44] higher than Hadley's, then um, we're
going to going to go back to Hadley
[48:48] basically. Um, but their their portion
of the work was uh, planned for before
[48:55] this contract starts.
go in there uh before the the big
[48:59] project starts, remove all the gangways,
set up the uh temporary uh utility lines
[49:05] uh and then move off the site. Then the
prime contractor comes in, completes the
[49:09] project, um and then Hadley returns to
restore all those.
[49:14] » But it does seem like if Word and Ball
can do that work, it might be more
[49:18] efficient to have them just do all
aspects of it rather than have a handoff
[49:22] between them and Havly. is not known to
be an inexpensive right
[49:26] » operator. Exactly.
>> I would guess that ball could could
[49:30] undertak them and it might be a simpler
less coordination and a better approach
[49:35] ultimately.
>> Yes. Yeah. That's that's definitely the
[49:38] um the impression that we get
>> and I I don't personally know just
[49:42] because they did this work two years ago
doesn't mean that the same person's
[49:45] going to be there doing it. I mean I
don't know what familiarity means and
[49:48] when you look at it you probably see
what they did and yeah undo. So
[49:53] » yeah, at the end of the day, I think um
that's
[49:57] we we this is what we're exactly
discussing. Um it's you know, it's not
[50:02] ideally you're not rocket scientists,
this is not that that difficult. Um so
[50:07] Bordon Ball should be able to manage
this, especially if they've they've
[50:10] already said that they would like to.
>> Can I move on to I had a question about
[50:14] the easements by the property owners? I
didn't see that addressed here. See
[50:19] easements?
>> Yes. So, we have uh uh three temporary
[50:24] construction easement contracts that
have been approved. Um not signed yet,
[50:28] but they were approved at the last city
council meeting and they've been
[50:31] approved by the the property owners as
well. Um so, that's um
[50:37] that is remains to be executed, but um
yeah, everybody's on the same page with
[50:44] that. Um yeah so that's there were there
were there were questions about kind of
[50:49] different details of the work um and it
is uh a question my understanding is
[50:55] that if there are changes to the works
such as these these changes here um that
[51:01] that that won't that won't change any of
the substance of the of the agreements
[51:06] that you know maybe the scope the
description of work but not
[51:09] » and the council didn't approve the
agreements per se they agreed they they
[51:12] approved the city manager's ability to
excuse the agreements.
[51:15] » Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, yeah.
So, the important thing is that the
[51:18] property owners are not resisting and
are agreeing to to them.
[51:22] » Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. They're um uh
Yeah. In fact, um the land company are
[51:30] enthusiastic about the work. Um they've
been aware of the, you know, the issues
[51:34] with the seaw wall. So, yeah, they're
they're happy to to see it going ahead.
[51:39] Um and then the other two lots are owned
by the same group, the Strauss group. uh
[51:44] and um they had a lot of questions. I
think they were sort of wanted to learn
[51:49] about um what was going on. Um so and we
had been updating the land company from
[51:55] the start of the project. Um we didn't
uh yeah it was only in in January I
[52:02] think that the that there was a change
changing of plans.
[52:06] Um but yeah, no so the the uh the
easements construction easements are are
[52:11] in place. Um
yeah, um
[52:16] we should probably try and keep moving
for one or the next 10 15 minutes or so,
[52:21] right? Um,
[52:31] let's move the schedule because I think
that's just just just what are your um
[52:36] » um you know are there any you mentioned
the August I think third date. Are there
[52:40] any key dates that you need to achieve
and really strive to highlight there?
[52:47] Well, um yes. So, so August the 3 is the
is
[52:53] using the 65 working days uh estimated
working time that the design engineers
[52:57] have provided. Um August 3rd is the is
the latest start that we can have with a
[53:05] you know flexibility. You talk about
water work and nonwater work. Is that 65
[53:08] days for the whole project or just
>> project? In theory, it's a lot less
[53:12] water work.
>> Correct.
[53:13] » Yes. Um, does BCDC or that moratorum
care mean like if you're working what I
[53:20] mean is if you're working inland of that
um is it still prohibited or or is it
[53:24] only just literally the work on the
water?
[53:26] » It's it's only the work on the water. So
the the outside of the
[53:30] » Have you guys with um our project
managers and or Gordon Ball have you put
[53:35] together sort of a schedule um
specifically um identify scope of work
[53:40] which isolates water work. So that's
that's my word, not your word as far as
[53:44] water work, but that that that so that
if you had to, you know, focus on um
[53:50] working outside that window else
elsewhere other than water, you could
[53:53] still get it done, right? Not yet. No.
Um yeah, we
[54:00] um
I I think we just don't feel that we're
[54:04] there yet. Um, and I think as we
communicate more with the Army Corp of
[54:10] Engineers, um, we've asked them if
there's any way we can have some kind of
[54:13] provisional permit or pro provisional
approval, um, for example, just some way
[54:18] that we can kind of start start moving
ahead. We can give the contractor a
[54:21] notice to proceed and so on. Um,
they're, uh, they're not easy to work
[54:26] with. Um, but in any case, um, does
their approval also, um, is that
[54:32] required for Hadley's work? I'm calling
it Hadley's work, but
[54:36] » No. No.
>> So, arguably someone could go out there
[54:39] today and relocate the peers and I know
we wouldn't do it for the for the fear
[54:43] of not having the project go forward in
this window. I get that. Y but
[54:47] theoretical.
>> Yes.
[54:48] » Could they could they go out there? Is
anything stopping um either Gordon and
[54:53] Ball or Hadley going out there and
removing the peers, creating a wave
[54:57] pathway for people to get in and out and
working on utilities?
[55:00] » No. No. I mean, you know, we'd need to,
you know, obviously give them the notice
[55:06] to proceed, but um that would be that
yes, that would be possible. So, we
[55:10] could certainly do some of the ground
work, you know, to to minimize the the
[55:14] time needed um for for inwater work. Um
but
[55:20] yeah, I think because we are we're still
planning on on having uh the contractor
[55:27] provide us with a schedule uh to fit
within the 65 days. Um
[55:33] um we we haven't uh started thinking
about those uh those part well I mean
[55:38] we've we have them in mind but um we
haven't I guess you call them
[55:42] contingency plans. we haven't sort of
moved into
[55:45] » well a project like this you would have
to think that it's not really a
[55:49] contingency it's sort of a requirement
I'm just just throwing it out there that
[55:53] » you may want to consider having unless
it's a it's it's literally an additional
[55:57] cost to do so but I don't know that it
necessarily will be but
[56:01] » come up with a methodology that you know
you know packs the water work into the
[56:05] middle of the project which is by
definition when you'll have your window
[56:08] » right you know so that you can do the
preparation work you know as efficiently
[56:12] as possible do water work all when you
have to do it and if you still have two
[56:16] months worth of work afterward it's not
you know project threatening because if
[56:20] the window closes you're you're you're
out of the water
[56:22] » right the 65 working days is that is
that the number of inwater working days
[56:27] or is that
>> that's that's the whole project how many
[56:30] roughly how many of those days are in
water is it 10 or
[56:33] » that's a good question
>> um
[56:37] and I would say
you know based on the on the alignment
[56:42] lengths Um it's it's maybe 60 to 70%
would be in water.
[56:48] » So might be 40 or so days in water. So
that 40 days counting back from from
[56:53] October 30th does make a potentially
later start date.
[56:58] » Yes.
>> Right. Exactly. Yeah.
[57:00] » Yeah.
>> But you can only do that if you have
[57:02] figured out how you can do it
efficiently.
[57:04] » You're ready.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[57:06] » Yeah. Absolutely. And so just to throw
into that um the piece of equipment that
[57:12] that the city has specified is needed
for this work is is called a ge or a
[57:16] geon um silent driver. Um and it's a
very expensive piece of equipment uh to
[57:22] mobilize. Um so um the contra
they're going to limit it and and make
[57:30] it efficient.
>> Yeah, exactly. They also may not be
[57:33] available at at any moment. maybe some
schedule for other projects in the list
[57:38] of each kid.
>> We we haven't heard from that from the
[57:42] contractor that there's that there's any
potential for that. Um but uh we're
[57:48] we're definitely aware of that.
>> And is Gordon Ball also flexible? Are
[57:52] they able to start
kind of in the line with how permit
[57:56] availability? Are they showing
flexibility
[57:59] » at this point? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean
um they were ready to go as soon as
[58:04] possible. Um they had said early to mid
June uh they they they
[58:11] anticipated being ready. Um at this
point um we've we've asked them to sort
[58:16] of push that back uh to early July. Um
and they they've been understanding you
[58:22] know they they know how permitting
agencies operate. So um yeah they're
[58:29] they were very the other the permits and
P gen were their two almost first
[58:35] questions. So P gen has been buttoned
down at this point. Um and it's the
[58:39] outstanding permit
the window is June is it June 1 to
[58:43] October 30th?
>> Yes. Yeah.
[58:48] I'm just curious if if there's any
focusing on the residents here a little
[58:52] bit more. I mean, I personally think a
project from June 1 to or even June 15th
[58:58] to to July 15th or or August 1st,
something like that, is a much different
[59:02] project than August through October.
>> People being around in our city. I mean,
[59:08] it looks like we're and we're looking
like it's going to be an August,
[59:10] October,
>> right, type project. And even if we have
[59:13] to extend the nonwater work beyond
October, it's getting into November and
[59:18] December, which is don't want to do it
work here both weatherwise and also
[59:21] people wise. Um
I mean is there a logic risk
[59:27] notwithstanding of you know at least
having a contingency plan get everything
[59:32] lined up and then starting you know June
15th of next year when because because I
[59:37] think there is a big community impact
doing this project in June and July and
[59:41] early August is much better
>> with a little bit of shift there than
[59:45] doing it in August, September, October,
November.
[59:49] » Um
>> well that's something we haven't
[59:50] considered.
>> No, I I'm just and I know that that
[59:52] that's an economic issue. While it is
slightly less convenient, there may be
[59:56] more people around in September and
October and there's schools around
[59:59] » it uh it feels like there's so much sort
of work and momentum to be sure to be
[1:00:05] sure
>> and that this the slight heightened
[1:00:07] inconvenience is not worth not worth it
change in the schedule my in my
[1:00:13] » plus we don't know is the contract and
the fees value valid for over a year
[1:00:18] probably not
>> right it would be too bad if it's filled
[1:00:20] in the September October but it's a
minor inconvenience on the schema very
[1:00:23] exciting. So
>> yeah, I guess it's I'm I'm agree. I'm
[1:00:26] just saying just in the back of your
mind like you know as this schedule
[1:00:30] pushes and as we start you know hearing
from the um Army Corps of Engineers
[1:00:34] later in June and as as things happen um
if we're pushing this too far into the
[1:00:39] fall I think I think it's more unions
than than just minor but that's
[1:00:44] » yeah that might be my perception. I
think schools are a big deal and traffic
[1:00:48] on those roads picks up quite a bit.
Weather will impact it more. Yeah, I I
[1:00:53] think it's well so you know I think in
the team's sort of mind that's been a a
[1:00:59] sort of a last resort really is just
right if this army core is is not going
[1:01:04] to come through
>> um then we're going to have to you start
[1:01:09] negotiating with the contractor whether
they can you know what pricing they can
[1:01:13] retain for next year and so on. Um
but the the the question of um sort of
[1:01:21] public convenience is uh yeah that's
something that we haven't really sort of
[1:01:26] included in in the conversation and a
lot of things a big inconvenience to
[1:01:30] begin with.
>> Um but yeah if there is a big difference
[1:01:34] um
>> no big is is our it's our capital gain
[1:01:37] on the the 3.6
year versus
[1:01:43] » I don't think it will be but just it's
not a bad thing to think about as I mean
[1:01:48] John's right as I think
>> so the army approval I mean I don't know
[1:01:53] if there's other I'm sure you're you're
pressuring them but I don't know if
[1:01:56] there other things we can do to you know
calls from the mayor calls from other
[1:02:01] community members to
>> US representatives I don't I'm just
[1:02:04] trying to think of how we can influence
that um Yeah. Uh that I mean great
[1:02:09] question and and I I did put that to our
consultants. Um is there any anything
[1:02:14] that we can be doing at this point? You
know what where can we apply pressure?
[1:02:18] And yeah, he said it's I mean so his his
take was that they're kind of an an
[1:02:24] immovable object. They're a federal
agency and they're um they they're
[1:02:31] not trans not very transparent and you
you kind of have to uh be a squeaky
[1:02:36] wheel. Um,
I'm sure mayor, council members, maybe
[1:02:41] um, you know, a letter or or something
from or even the subcommittee actually
[1:02:46] would would, um,
>> I assume you are being his squeaky
[1:02:49] wheel. Is that right? You
>> Yeah, exactly.
[1:02:51] » bugging them tag team with them.
>> And John making just a great point. I
[1:02:56] mean, talk to talk to them. If if they'd
like to draft a letter that the mayor
[1:03:01] can sign, I'll talk to Sally about that.
I'm sure we can do that. to a degree
[1:03:06] it's just adding to the squeaky.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's
[1:03:11] Yeah. I mean it kind of hurt
the federal maybe our member of Congress
[1:03:16] » maybe.
[1:03:23] » Yeah. Um yeah that's that's a very good
point. Um
[1:03:26] » I mean it seems like we should prepare
for that but
[1:03:29] » I mean time is getting short but that
all will take time to do. So
[1:03:34] » yeah we can certainly do that. Um,
>> okay. Well, we should probably consider
[1:03:38] any final things we want to cover here,
>> Tony. Were there other things we
[1:03:41] haven't?
>> Um, yeah, two two other things that I
[1:03:44] didn't hadn't included in the memo
really because like I say, it's sort of
[1:03:48] as we speak sort of discussions. One of
them is is that uh there was a
[1:03:52] suggestion from the contractor that we
move the people living there uh into a
[1:03:57] hotel for a few nights. Um, that would
allow them to cut and cap all the
[1:04:00] utilities, do the work. they wouldn't
have to do the bypasses and the and the
[1:04:04] temporary services uh to keep people uh
and and they would be disruptions in any
[1:04:09] case to those people living there um
even with the the bypasses. Um so that
[1:04:15] was an interesting suggestion and
something yeah I um ran by Robert um
[1:04:21] this morning.
>> How many households is it? How many
[1:04:23] homes is it? Um so uh there are in 16 to
20 there are three three homes uh
[1:04:30] » is it seven total from 16 to 30.
>> Yeah. Or three
[1:04:35] » right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
>> Um so that's something we'll definitely
[1:04:40] » and make it attractive. I mean they
could stay locally or they could go
[1:04:43] somewhere else if they want to take a
>> go time. I mean couldn't we couldn't we
[1:04:47] give them a I don't know a budget and
say go somewhere. Well, as a contractor,
[1:04:52] I mean, I'm sure the contractor saying
it's on us. It's not a huge amount of
[1:04:56] money, but I'm sure they're it's it's
making it easier for them, too.
[1:04:59] » Exactly. Well, that's
>> You wonder should come out of their
[1:05:02] contract price because it's going to
make it easier for them,
[1:05:04] » right? Yeah. And and well, so we said,
you know, what would your uh what would
[1:05:09] your cost if if we were able to to do
that? What would your cost for that
[1:05:12] section of work be? Um, so they they are
going to uh look more closely at it and
[1:05:17] hopefully get us a number. If you tell
them they can save the the motel down
[1:05:20] the road, they're going to be like, "No,
don't do it." But log on. You're telling
[1:05:25] me you can go, you know, put this 1,500
bucks for the Ritz Carlton in Half Moon
[1:05:29] Bay. Bad idea. So anyway,
>> yeah. No, I mean, look at the numbers. I
[1:05:34] mean, 270,000
kind of, you know, just a
[1:05:38] » Oh, it's on it's on that contract versus
I thought the broader contract.
[1:05:42] » Um, well, it would be broader contract.
>> Yes. That's a yeah, just as a sort of a
[1:05:46] number for just that that portion of the
utilities and the gang ways kind of
[1:05:50] thing. Um, which would actually the gang
ways would still need to be removed. But
[1:05:54] » I mean, so it's a $20,000 number at the
end of the day if it's if it's a few
[1:05:57] nights, you know, for seven households,
something like that.
[1:06:00] » Yeah. Yeah.
>> You got to sort of
[1:06:03] be, you know,, 1500 bucks a night,
you're going to have to, it's going to
[1:06:06] have to be attractive like that, I would
think, for someone
[1:06:09] » want to do it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, just another
[1:06:14] angle that we're sort of looking at. I
guess the thing is is it's all or none
[1:06:18] really. Um, if if one person doesn't
want to do it, then we can't Yeah. make
[1:06:23] it uh
>> I think at least some of them make them
[1:06:26] temporary and not temporary. I don't
know if they're all full-time residents.
[1:06:29] I think some of the part-time residents,
I believe. So, might
[1:06:34] » Right. Yeah. Good.
>> They're all wrenches, but we part time.
[1:06:39] » Yeah, good good point. And and I believe
a couple of those units are empty. Um so
[1:06:43] they're not all it's not seven full, it
might be only five. Um
[1:06:47] » and and all and since they are they're
all rentals, I mean all rental
[1:06:51] agreements have um utility outage
provisions. So arguably it's not that
[1:06:56] it's not that the landlord can't legally
do that,
[1:06:59] » right?
>> Where we're where the landlord's
[1:07:01] » Yeah.
>> agent in that in that aspect,
[1:07:03] » right? Yeah. And I think Chris actually
mentioned this. I think I think our
[1:07:09] general guidance or general sort of
thought with this also related to the
[1:07:12] the the new option as far as outbound if
the gang way is not moving is like knock
[1:07:18] your socks off but as but but obviously
our our our provision or or our guidance
[1:07:22] is is to keep it sort of cost neutral or
cost positive you know when it becomes
[1:07:26] cost negative that's where you really
want to question the logic because we
[1:07:29] have a we have a guaranteed you know
type of um arrangement with someone more
[1:07:33] than we wanted but nonetheless we have
that so let's not go from there upward
[1:07:37] let's Let's add things and subtract
things and modify things as they are
[1:07:41] cost benefit.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's
[1:07:44] that's really our our primary um aim.
Yeah. Um
[1:07:51] » so you said two things. That was one.
>> Um yes. So that was one. Uh the other
[1:07:57] Oh. Um
yeah, it was I guess to share a traffic
[1:08:03] control plan that was just submitted
today. Um if if you're interested in
[1:08:08] seeing that
um
[1:08:12] just because this is
uh so this is provided by the by the
[1:08:18] contractor submitted uh we would still
need to approve the official.
[1:08:25] Okay.
>> Adrian, do you have a comment?
[1:08:31] Uh
[1:08:34] um I think well several things I'm sorry
I I apologize but the communication uh
[1:08:40] throughout this meeting has been very
difficult for for me so I've been uh
[1:08:44] I've heard a bit um uh but I I don't I
think the best thing at this point I've
[1:08:50] missed quite a bit coming in and out um
sorry
[1:08:54] uh but the the last thing and the most
important thing I just wanted to clarify
[1:08:59] uh Tony and everyone that just to to
make sure that we're all on the same
[1:09:02] page, but the contractor never indicated
and or initiated communication on
[1:09:06] relocating residents.
>> Okay.
[1:09:11] » That no, that was never ever the case.
No. Um so that was brought up through
[1:09:16] the um um the ease of eliminating their
statements of if they could cap and um
[1:09:25] um um uh take the gas line out is the
primary issue. So, if they can cap the
[1:09:32] gas line for x amount of days to be
determined uh that they are going to be
[1:09:38] getting back to us once now that they
have the information that we're looking
[1:09:42] for
that would uh potentially prompt uh um
[1:09:48] uh you know a lot a lot less work in
that area. So there's a lot of moving
[1:09:51] parts to that, but they certainly did
not have a plan or said, "Hey, listen,
[1:09:56] if we if you know, we can achieve this
if the residents are gone." You know, it
[1:10:00] it's been a moving
uh a topic of discussion on how to
[1:10:06] accommodate and or um uh make temporary
facilities uh usable. and um in
[1:10:12] discussions and within just the last
couple of days uh internally was it
[1:10:18] discussed that well maybe that's a
better option and then out of that I
[1:10:22] discussed just this morning with the
contractor I believe this was discussed
[1:10:26] yesterday Tony correct me if I'm wrong
when we initially started to talk about
[1:10:30] it
>> yes yesterday afternoon
[1:10:33] » so so yesterday we discussed this that
maybe this is a viable solution so
[1:10:39] » this morning I reached out to the
contract
[1:10:43] Great. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, uh, Adrian.
Um, I stand corrected is the suggestion
[1:10:50] didn't come from the contractor. It was
more part of that conversation.
[1:10:54] » We hear you. Thanks, Adrian.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:10:58] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
[1:11:00] » Um, yeah. And that's again just just
Yeah. The gas line that he that he was
[1:11:05] talking about, there's a question of
perhaps that could be capped. Um and the
[1:11:11] so the water would be maintained to the
to the homes but if if they could live
[1:11:15] without gas for a little longer. Um and
yeah so really out of that that
[1:11:19] discussion uh the idea of the hotel uh
uh
[1:11:24] offer was uh came from that. Um yeah so
thanks Adrian and yeah let us know if
[1:11:33] you have anything else. Um
>> uh well yeah I mean there were several
[1:11:37] other things but I think at the best
point I'll kind of recap um um again and
[1:11:43] there were on some of the design changes
I mean I had some insight on it um and
[1:11:46] some of the you know with respect to the
water work versus landside work. Uh
[1:11:59] we've lost you Adrian. Yeah.
Okay. Um
[1:12:07] this is just a the uh to show you the
the traffic plan that's been uh provided
[1:12:13] by uh uh the contractor. Um so this plan
would be for weekends and overnight. Um
[1:12:20] so basically uh two-lane traffic would
be maintained uh throughout the site. Uh
[1:12:27] the work zone in front of the buildings
over here would be their staging area.
[1:12:31] » Is that fenced in? Is that where it's
fenced in?
[1:12:34] » Yes. Yeah. So that's uh certainly in
front in front of these buildings. Um so
[1:12:39] that they'll be um
forget what they barriers filled with
[1:12:44] water big blocks that would be would
protect that that zone. Um yeah and
[1:12:53] that's uh along Beach Road. But but is
there like I see the works on there, but
[1:12:57] that orange line above it?
>> Yeah.
[1:13:00] » Will there be a fence there?
>> Um so there there'll definitely be a
[1:13:05] barrier and it might actually be on
here. Um but not a fence. Exactly. Um
[1:13:12] » three foot plastic barriers. Orange.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Those Yeah, those orange
[1:13:16] plastic barriers. They get filled with
water, so they're heavy for the
[1:13:19] vehicles.
>> Um you
[1:13:22] I I just wonder I mean those are they're
wider than they need. they're wider and
[1:13:25] they're short. Um, and it it's not going
to prevent access if there's
[1:13:31] » Right. Yeah. And I think well and that's
a great point. I mean, do we do we need
[1:13:37] something
>> I I guess I'm throwing out the question,
[1:13:39] you know, one of the issues of job sites
is you want to prevent access. You want
[1:13:42] to security and safety and liability and
everything else and you don't want it to
[1:13:46] become a
>> I don't know tempting kids or anybody
[1:13:50] else to climb around there.
>> Yeah. It's a a fence might be a better
[1:13:56] fence panels might be a better option
>> or just throw it out to them, you know,
[1:13:59] how do they want to protect the site?
How do they want to um protect their
[1:14:02] equipment, you know, protect the city
from liability and ourselves from
[1:14:05] liability,
>> right? Yeah. Especially over weekends
[1:14:08] and um yeah, when there's not going to
be people around during the day even
[1:14:14] » and so dur during the day it goes to
alternative one way.
[1:14:17] » Yes.
>> From peninsula to main street.
[1:14:19] » Right. Correct. Exactly. And we have
flaggers um to to direct traffic through
[1:14:26] uh through there. Um but yeah, this
section over here would be
[1:14:31] um one way in one direction and then and
then in another.
[1:14:34] » Is that expected for 65 days basically
that
[1:14:38] or is that of the time?
>> That's I I
[1:14:44] would say no. Um but I couldn't tell you
sort of how long that how long it would
[1:14:48] be. the this the main thing here would
be this would this is when that section
[1:14:53] of road is is excavated and you've got
that alignment in the street that that
[1:14:57] work happening um which I think they've
called phase phase one
[1:15:03] » um yeah so that's um generally speaking
are are flaggers deemed more effective
[1:15:10] and more um traffic u um
positive than you know fixed signals
[1:15:18] » great question. Um I think I think so.
Um because they're able to communicate
[1:15:25] and um if nobody's coming, they can let
people through more quickly. Um
[1:15:31] » I'm pretty sure that that there are AI
um signals available these days. Uh so
[1:15:37] that would probably be ideal, but um I
don't know if they're available.
[1:15:41] » Okay.
>> But yeah. Um yeah. Uh next one is Yeah.
[1:15:47] So when the work zone is happening, this
is phase two. This is where when work is
[1:15:53] happening further down beach road
towards Main Street. Um so both lanes
[1:15:58] would be open um between Peninsula and
Cove and when that's happening then we
[1:16:05] have a lane closed between Cove and
Maine.
[1:16:08] So yeah, fairly fairly straightforward
but um sometimes just visualizing it is
[1:16:13] useful.
>> Thank you.
[1:16:17] Okay. Um I guess the next question is
whether this group wants to convene
[1:16:22] again and have another review or what
how how and when we would do that if we
[1:16:27] do that.
>> Um yeah I mean we can certainly when uh
[1:16:31] » I think when we have the numbers to see
if there are savings in this alternative
[1:16:35] it' be good to have the next one before
then I don't really
[1:16:39] » Army Corp of Engineers.
>> Yes. Yeah.
[1:16:43] » Yeah. and and hopefully a date of
construction and and um sort of
[1:16:47] stabilizing to
>> we'll leave it up to but it sounds like
[1:16:49] it's got to be middle beginning to
middle of June
[1:16:52] » maybe late June if
>> well we should know I think by the by
[1:16:56] the second week of June whether that 20
whether whether we're going to get the
[1:16:59] permit or not by the second
>> hopefully yeah yeah exactly um and
[1:17:06] basically as soon as we know then and
I'm hoping these sort of alternative
[1:17:10] designs and so on can be can be
straightened out long before then so
[1:17:16] that everything's ready to go and the
moment we get the the the word from the
[1:17:20] army we can
>> Are you allowed to give um written
[1:17:24] updates to this group or does it have to
be on public meeting like this?
[1:17:29] » It's a good question. Um I can ask Beth.
I mean I think it would be I don't see
[1:17:35] why it can't be.
>> You probably can do uh uh
[1:17:40] uh agenda related updates. That's all
we're talking about. This is, you know,
[1:17:44] you know, these the these design
modifications. Yay. No, yes, no go. You
[1:17:49] know, costbenefit, you know, decisions.
Um, as long as we post them
[1:17:54] appropriately,
>> right? Yeah.
[1:17:55] » So, maybe do that for for for these as
they're available, you know, modest, you
[1:17:59] know, quick update based on our meeting
last time and post it. I think that
[1:18:02] should be okay. Um, and then we're
clearly going to need to need need to,
[1:18:07] you know, understand or
make broader decisions. should you come
[1:18:12] and we either do or don't get this
permit from ACE and then you have your
[1:18:17] by that point um clear understanding of
whether this can this can this can
[1:18:20] proceed right
>> in this this window.
[1:18:23] » Yeah. Exactly.
>> So it's like you said end of June.
[1:18:25] » Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah. Um so it sounds like
[1:18:29] written updates sort of as they become
available
[1:18:33] » don't do a lot because they have to be
agenda based. They have to be you know I
[1:18:36] believe they you can't bring in new
information. I think they have to be
[1:18:38] based on what we've talked about,
>> right?
[1:18:40] » And you have to follow the whatever
rules Beth gives you.
[1:18:42] » Yeah. Yeah. All the all the rules. Yeah.
Um Yeah. Okay. So, periodic updates, I
[1:18:48] guess, based on it's only a month. It's
only been a month away. So, true. Yeah.
[1:18:52] » Yeah. So, so in a couple weeks, just
say, you know, we've we've cleared up
[1:18:55] these design issues. We're going to do X
or we're going to do Y.
[1:18:58] » Um and then we're AC, you know, the core
of engineers is here and we'll talk
[1:19:02] about it more in this next meeting. Just
real simple. Uh would you like to pencil
[1:19:06] in a date sort of late mid to late June?
Um just so we've got something on the
[1:19:12] calendar.
>> Can you I'm probably going to be I'll be
[1:19:15] remote then but probably dialing.
>> Is that Can we do a remote meeting like
[1:19:20] that or is that
>> be I think at least two of you three
[1:19:23] here. Um
um
[1:19:28] I think I'll meet this whole second half
of June. And I expect to be right.
[1:19:35] » Well, why don't let's choose the week of
the 15th. But
[1:19:38] » okay,
>> but why don't you as you get more
[1:19:40] information? I mean, if everything is
going going swim similarly and you've
[1:19:44] got your your your your permits and we
don't need to meet again. So, let's
[1:19:47] let's target that week and do a you in
the next two weeks. Um you should have
[1:19:51] more information from the core of
engineers and why don't you um you know
[1:19:55] shoot a a few proposed times and see if
we have a quorum.
[1:19:59] » Okay. At the end of the day, that's
going to be the issue whether we can
[1:20:01] have a quorum to do it.
>> Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. So, the
[1:20:04] week of June 15th, you know, we we'll
sort of um
[1:20:08] » or the 22. I mean, we'll do the same be
there,
[1:20:13] » right? Okay. That's the week of the
22nd. I'm not here. So, you're gone and
[1:20:18] I'm gone.
>> Yeah.
[1:20:24] » Okay. Yeah. Well, so then the 15th is is
>> really the 15th and we'll we'll try to
[1:20:30] make a forum there.
>> Great.
[1:20:34] » Okay.
>> Yeah, sounds good. Um and yeah, thank
[1:20:39] you. I mean the only other thing
actually to to add is the uh public
[1:20:42] outreach. Um and we were planning on on
having engaged people already given them
[1:20:50] uh given them details especially the
residents of the homes. Um we know that
[1:20:53] there have been articles in the ark. Um
um the conclusion we've come to is that
[1:20:59] we if we don't actually have any details
to give them um it's not going to be it
[1:21:04] may be unhelpful to to say there's this
big disruptive project coming but we
[1:21:08] don't know dates and we don't know which
gang ways are going to be open and so
[1:21:11] on. So um soon as we've got a little bit
more um that we can kind of uh that we
[1:21:18] can tell them um then we're going to
we're going to move move to do that. um
[1:21:23] the homeowners, the residents at uh 16
to 38 Beach. Um we'd like to, you know,
[1:21:29] have a as sort of uh intimate is
probably the wrong word, but informal
[1:21:34] and uh sort of on-site um communication
as possible. Um so knocking on doors,
[1:21:41] inviting people to a meeting, um and
then uh you know, and then you know,
[1:21:45] being able to answer questions directly
and giving cards in case there are um
[1:21:50] follow-up questions and so on. Uh and
then a a bigger workshop which would be
[1:21:54] in the community center downstairs and
that would be so sort of for everybody.
[1:21:58] Um and that would be with you know
design engineers there to answer
[1:22:02] questions and present plans. We'd be
able to show traffic plans and and have
[1:22:06] more of a show and tell uh at that
point. Um and so those would be the two
[1:22:10] main public outreach activities and then
uh a web page on the city website uh
[1:22:16] with with updates um and yeah have that
available. the web page definitely um
[1:22:24] open up a can of worms if you have a
public meeting like that but
[1:22:28] » right
>> I mean I think there's two issues I mean
[1:22:32] one public meaning the broad public I
think that's great
[1:22:37] » I I I get some feedback from the
property owners in relation to the the
[1:22:41] tenants themselves
>> you know if the property owners are okay
[1:22:44] with it and their their tenants are okay
with it you know I wouldn't go overboard
[1:22:48] with
Okay.
[1:22:50] » And just I mean if if we need to Yes.
Let's go over work with that. I'm saying
[1:22:53] if if the if the property owners and the
tenants are okay with what you're doing
[1:22:56] and
>> and so forth and you got the proper
[1:22:57] ement sign.
>> We got to get the ements signed. Yeah.
[1:23:01] Yeah. At first because we don't want to
start raising questions and give someone
[1:23:05] letter. Oh, yeah. We need to get those
signed before we do. I mean,
[1:23:10] » yes. you just
to the degree the public knows about
[1:23:16] this is if they've been paying attention
and the arc hasn't talked about it too
[1:23:20] much and we haven't really had all
things um
[1:23:25] we have to do some sort of public u
meaning I understand uh
[1:23:32] just there could be definitely a a
registered these works by something
[1:23:36] which I can't even think of but you know
>> I guess but that's the nature of our
[1:23:40] business Right. Yeah. No, I mean it's a
very good point and this is this is
[1:23:44] something Robert's definitely more sort
of um sort of
[1:23:48] » that in mind you're probably better off
doing it sooner than later. I mean I I
[1:23:51] know you want information to be final
and to be as accurate as possible but um
[1:23:57] » but if we're on the verge of getting the
easements signed, let's get those signed
[1:24:00] first.
>> Okay.
[1:24:01] » Because we don't want them to say,
"Well, before we do that, let me check
[1:24:04] with my tenants and see what complaints
they have and what demands they might
[1:24:07] have." And then yeah, we should push to
get those done.
[1:24:11] » Yeah, let's get those signed once we
know whether we can start this year and
[1:24:16] if it's start of August or late August,
then we can have the public forum.
[1:24:21] » I think I think our biggest opposition
is going to come from the peninsula
[1:24:24] people or road people which mean justify
just
[1:24:27] » right
>> disruption. Yeah, for sure.
[1:24:32] » Yeah. We say we're putting a seaw wall
so your house doesn't flood. Hopefully
[1:24:38] so that road doesn't fall in the house
is not washed away.
[1:24:43] » Okay. Um Okay. Anything else?
>> N that's it. We'll turn till next time.
[1:24:50] » Thank you. Yeah. Thanks very much
and the meeting.
[1:24:56] » Thank you guys.
[1:24:59] influences
governor's house with the