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Should
we say

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I woke up

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» 7 o'lock?
If everybody's ready, I'm going to do

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ahead and call this meeting to order.

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Silence yourself.
We are working on our live streaming

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here.
>> You go for it.

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» I know it's there's just um we always
begin our meeting with pledge

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allegiance. Please join us.

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» There we go.
I aliance to the flag of the United

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States of America and to the republic
for it stands one nation under God

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indivisible with liberty and justice for
all

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» here. Darcy Ke.
>> Angela Brown.

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» Jasper Dis
>> here.

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» Shields here. Ray Armstrong
>> here. Keith Gosha,

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Evan Mine
>> here.

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» Thank you.
All right. Um I am not going to read the

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adopted policy because I believe the
audience are both applicants tonight.

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Correct.
>> Okay.

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» So
we will dispense with that. Lisa, can

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you move to verify that this meeting is
advertised?

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» Um yes, on August 26 on the township
website and August 28th on the township

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Facebook page.

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All right, we have meeting minutes from
our previous meeting back on August

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25th. I would like to accept a motion to
approve those meetings, please.

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» Motion to approve BCC minutes from
August 25th, 2026. Second,

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» Mr. Christopher.
>> Yes.

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» Miss Shields.
>> Yes.

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» Um, let's see. Mr. Matheni,
>> yes.

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» Mr. Mr. Arshaw.
>> Yes.

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» Miss Caval.
>> Yes.

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» So this evening we do have a hearing for
ACC

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18-002
amendment number three 66 Hyatts Road.

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This is a request for approval of
modifications to the Heights Plaz

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development plan for parcel 418330
01079002.

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Um to relocate the proposed monument
sign along pre and permitted.

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So our applicants are
sure

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Jacob, do you they've already have your
summary?

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» Okay, cool.
>> Hi, I'm Connie Kle and I represent the

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applicant or the owner of the property.
Um, this particular building is

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construction constructed. You probably
see it when you drive by. Um and um what

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happened is is we have um some some
information well we have a lot of things

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going on in this site as far as
uh landscaping which has all been done

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in in accordance with your code.
everything in the site plan as approved,

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originally approved. We're we're keeping
that, but for signage um in our sign

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board area, uh we need people to see it
obviously. And uh the location that was

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approved with your original plan, as we
started construction and did things, we

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realized that there was a gas line
easement in that particular location,

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which would not permit a sign to be
there. So, I'm going to hand out so that

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I can tell my story a little better. I'm
going to hand out to you several things

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that I'd like to go through with you.
And I have them in order.

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What you'll see on the very first page
is the actual sign, which is the height

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and um area of the signage. And that has
been approved in the original location.

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Um that particular sign we'd like to
keep it. Um very importantly I'd like

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you to notice that the area that's being
used for the sign board itself uh we

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have numerous tenants and obviously um
we have no access of 23 to this site

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only from Hyatt Road. the people going
north and south on 23, the only way

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they're going to know about this is if
they see this sign and know then that

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they're going to have to turn. So, this
signage itself is very important. If you

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go to the next page, I have a circle
um in yellow, I believe. I believe in

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yellow.
>> Yes.

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» Okay. Yeah. Um where where we are
proposing the sign to be, which you

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probably saw in your packet. Now, what's
what's interesting is this sign being 15

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foot from the ride of way. The original
sign was in accordance with the code 27

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ft. A little more to the left of where
it is. And that is where the gas line

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ement. On the next page, you'll see the
gas line easement. It's highlighted in

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yellow. And you'll see in red the
approved or yeah, the approved signage.

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You'll see a bit to the right of it the
proposed location and then circled in

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red to the left is a location that could
could be um will be in accordance with

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your current code. Let me explain this.
This this circled area. We literally

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could go farther to the south on 123 27
feet um and stay in accordance with the

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code 27 foot set back with the same
sign, same height, everything. But that

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is we thought around 7. It's about 5 1/2
6 ft lower than our approved sign area.

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It's also where the drainage area is and
and the topo begins to go down. So it's

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not very good for the signage because
it's low and it's difficult to see. So

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that is a difficulty right there. That's
a practical difficulty to to abide by

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the code there. And obviously you can't
in the gas line. Now where we would like

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it as we show is 15t from the ride
ofway, but we don't want to have to

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reduce the signboard area because of the
size for people to see it, know what the

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tenants are, etc. And we don't want to
decrease the base which was approved

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architecturally uh to be attractive. Now
a very interesting thing on

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[clears throat] the next page

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actually not the next page go on to the
next page touch that

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I think this is very interesting. Um
the ride your signage

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uh code is is basically from the edge of
the ride of way. What I've done is taken

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an aerial photo here of the 23 ride
ofway. On the left is the subject

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property. On the right is the gas
station. In red, I have highlighted the

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edge of the ride ofway on the 23. On the
east side rightway, you'll see it is

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along the edge of the road, the improved
road. On our side, the ride ofway is set

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back many feet from the actual road. So
when we are asking for 15 ft from the

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ride ofway unlike the gas station which
has a sign very [clears throat] close to

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the actual ride ofway
road the actual road our sign will be in

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addition to the 15 ft all the distance
that's exists in that rideway before you

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get to the pavement. So we have a much
larger gap between the actual road and

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where our sign will be. The next page is
an actual photo showing you the large

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green space that's in between US 23 and
our site. It's quite a distance back.

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There's also it's at an angle 23. If you
look at the right of way, 23 as it goes

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down creates more of a triangular size
between our property, our actual

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property which goes directly south and
this area here. So there's a large area

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of green space and drainage area.
You go to the next page, you'll see the

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actual sign that's on 23 at the gas
station, which is very close to the to

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the um actual 23 and actually much
higher than this sign that we're

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proposing.
Now,

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I understand um and I read the report,
which I thought was very well done. Um I

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understand what sign codes are about not
having a lot of signage basically

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polluting the roadway, about not having
things be in the way. But this sign will

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obviously be very far from the actual
roadway. This sign will be in in

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accordance with what was originally
approved and it will accommodate the

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people there in the center and you'll be
able to see and not be going, "Oh my

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gosh, I have no idea who's there." We
drive by and it's very difficult to run

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a retail center without people knowing
who and where you are. Um, in addition,

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I'm going to provide to you another
exhibit

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that Mr. has provided me tonight, which
um shows you the landscaping that was

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approved for this site that has been
planted. Now, keep in mind that this

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landscaping,
well, it was approved, it's this.

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So you'll see a as it matures it's going
to get much bigger and it probably a lot

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of the building will not be able to be
seen given the level of 23 and uh the

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landscape that will be shooting up next
to the building. So signage becomes even

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more important as time goes by this site
so that as I'm driving north or south on

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23 I don't have to search for the sign.
it's easily seen and I can locate what

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where what is there and actually know
what's going on without stopping or

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looking or whatever.

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Obviously, we would prefer not to have
to get this deviation, but the the gas

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line required it. Uh moving farther
south puts us in a hole, and we think

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this is the best location to to address
that.

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Sure.

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Any questions?
>> So on this picture, the your proposal is

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basically saying this far right side is
>> Yeah.

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» closer to where that one um

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put it here.

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» Yeah. Okay. Show me what you just asked
me.

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» I was just Yeah. I was saying looking at
the front of the building. I was trying

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to It looks like from your proposed
location it's close.

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» It's going to be like around in this
area right here.

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» I have a couple questions.
>> Sure.

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» So, I I see the original space and that
that's on the gas um so that won't work.

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And then your proposed location. I see
what you're saying about the rightway

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line on the east side is much closer to
the road than one on the west side. It's

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farther away. How many feet difference?
>> Actually, I tried to figure it out out

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of the augur's map, but it's over an
acre of land that's in the right way.

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» Wow.
>> Yeah. So, that I I that that doesn't

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give you the width, but the view,
>> right? Um and I know you said then the

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other space if you moved it south,
>> the topography is dropping. So it

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wouldn't be as visible. Any possibility
of changing the base to rise it up or

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does that then
>> exceed the height?

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» That would exceed the height then.
>> So we would like to keep the height.

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We're fine with the height as it was
originally proved but just sliding it.

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» Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my concern is once
you get a deviation for something like

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this, it's everybody's going to want it
closer to

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» Well, I I think I don't I think
obviously we would have we have to say

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why and gas line eastment,
>> right?

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» We have landscaping and we have to
literally that as you go south it goes

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to a flood plane. That's where all the
drainage goes. And uh and we have a

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specific situation here that's not
always we have a widening as it goes

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south between the actual building.
So I think there's a lot of facts that

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could be used to say this was created
for these particular facts.

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» Anybody else?
>> So in the original location it looks

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like it was kind of angled to go along
like you said how kind of

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» triangle triangles down. Is it possible
to put it in the same location it was

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but just outside of the gas line and
angled in that direction?

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» That's sort of what we're doing now with
the width accommodating the width and

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everything. Is that what you're saying?
>> Um I guess just like cuz here it looks

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like it's almost uh perpendicular to the
building like here's the building and

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this is this way. Yeah, we can we can
make it angle more. Yeah,

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» because I was thinking if if people are
coming along the road, they're they're

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» we'll just say that drawing. Okay, we'll
make we'll probably make it

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perpendicular to the ride of way.
>> But then I just didn't know

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if you move this sign just outside of
the gas line, then you're still further

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away from the right of way.
>> I think John can speak to that. why it

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00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:32,639
» why it wanted to be tucked so much
further north.

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» She's saying
>> I'm John project.

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00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:41,600
» She's saying why not slide it
>> just slide it outside of the

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» the
you could the grade starts to go down

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there.
>> Okay. So if this elevation

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» it's just with grade
>> when you start going down you lose that

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reader board.
>> I think that we have that elevation

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which I skipped.
It's helpful

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to the north.
>> There you have the elevations where we

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got it is 917.
You'll see those little dotted lines

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and and if you go to the actual
elevation where it had been before it

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would be 95

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00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,600
push it straight up

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00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:38,079
here [snorts]
to the location you had to

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So you could do this
[snorts]

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shift
18 in high.

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00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:06,440
So on here,
where was the proposed like if if you

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00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,440
could guess where was it before?

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00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:21,256
just had the pizza on Friday night, so
I'm very familiar with them. [laughter]

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00:16:23,839 --> 00:16:26,839
» Okay.

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00:16:30,371 --> 00:16:32,391
[snorts]

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Any thoughts, questions?
>> No,

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00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:47,440
I am not.
It's a great thing of uh

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00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:56,480
having the
same size at 15t.

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I don't I don't like that proposal. Um
in order to get the size that you want,

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yes, it's going to have to be moved in
my opinion. Um,

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I would rather be able to see a a larger
base, but with the size of that still be

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the 27T back. We've got a lot of roads
in this township.

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They're not anywhere near the center
line right away. So, that's nothing

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unusual or out of the ordinary anywhere.
So that's just

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00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:37,200
the Rhode Island one is some 7 ft out
the center. So

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that's counting rooms.
Nothing unusual there. I would like to

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see them uh do either do something with
the base and still have it that 27 ft to

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have that size
or

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or if it's still going to be 15 ft back
from

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reduce the size of the side both sides.
I'd like to show you this.

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And I I understand what you're saying
about the right away and um and I think

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about uh something that we've dealt with
with right away and the expansion of the

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00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:34,960
road, you know, in the future is that
that could be room for, you know, while

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00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:39,440
they may only have the rightway on that
side and very little road space, but

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00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:45,200
they could have already expanded at that
point where they could be expanding. And

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00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:50,320
so if they do that road that right away,
that road could come up right up to that

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line, you know, at some point in the
future. So then you're right on top of

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you're 15 ft away from that sign as
well. So I I do understand what you're

213
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:05,360
saying about the how much space is it
feels like so much space,

214
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,480
» but in personal
experience

215
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:15,488
when you think you have a lot of space
with right away, you don't sometimes.

216
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,488
That's it's it's [snorts]

217
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,200
thoughts here.

218
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:29,200
» Yeah, I'll just add a couple.
>> Yeah, I was just going to ask. Great.

219
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:34,720
So, you're saying
moving it farther, making the base

220
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:40,799
larger, even if that then makes the
overall sign taller than

221
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:45,200
» it does. I would, you know, for the size
>> cuz I realized what what they want. I

222
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,799
mean,
>> John and I worked on this like how many

223
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:50,880
years ago?
>> Too many.

224
00:19:50,803 --> 00:19:58,160
[clears throat]
>> Yeah, I agree. I was inspected then. But

225
00:19:55,360 --> 00:20:02,799
anyway, the
I understand that they want the size of

226
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:06,720
the sign to stay the same for
visibility.

227
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:10,640
You know, if it's if it's not a red
light, you're not going to see it and be

228
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,880
able to read it at 55 miles an hour
going past it either direction. You

229
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:19,200
know, you're going to have to be had a
light or taking off or slowing down in

230
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:26,080
order to read it. I can understand it
with the size,

231
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:31,120
but I don't want 15 ft. I would rather
see it at 27. And that's

232
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:38,559
» that's down in the grade that you're
saying. Well, it there there is a grade

233
00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:45,480
going down there, but uh I can see an
adjustment to the base in order to keep

234
00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:45,480
that size.

235
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:54,240
Are you saying I asked are you saying
okay if it's dropped 5 and 1 half six

236
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:58,480
feet from where we have it stays 27 ft
back but we add that 5 and 1/2 six feet

237
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,000
to the height
>> to the base

238
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:07,039
» to the base. So then that size of the
sign the sign board itself is still the

239
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:10,000
same size but the base is increased in
its in its depth.

240
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:14,480
» Yeah. I don't know what that measurement
is. That's that's a giant question.

241
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:19,600
» Actually the base itself right now is 45
in. So it would be increased by about 5T

242
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:23,039
or 5T.
>> Is it that steep at that point?

243
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:27,520
» Yes.
>> Yeah.

244
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:32,880
It's pretty awkward too. So the proposed
location approved

245
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:40,360
was 915.5
grade and at the new location at 27 ft

246
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:40,360
it's 910.

247
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:54,919
What what is that distance in relation
to

248
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:54,919
the road or the

249
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:03,120
» in other words it may have been up on a
hill so to speak and now it won't be. So

250
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:07,919
what's the difference? Okay
>> 5 and 1/2 ft

251
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:13,120
» uh difference from the original what is
the what's the elevation of the road

252
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,760
service?
I don't know.

253
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,840
» I think we need to find that out because
in other words,

254
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:23,360
» well, but
>> if it's uh if if it's the same height,

255
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:29,200
for example, then we don't need to base.
>> The issue is from people traveling

256
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:34,480
southbound because they're at an
elevation that's higher. As that sign

257
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:40,400
sinks, they lose the bottom half of the
board. Southbound coming northbound is

258
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:45,600
not a problem. You'll see it. So, what
we need really is the elevation of the

259
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:50,720
road. If it's 9:15
uh at the location of the sign,

260
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:54,240
» it looks like on this
>> the new location. What What's that in

261
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,280
relation to the road?
>> That's

262
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,720
» I don't know.
>> I mean, if it was the same at 9:15,

263
00:23:00,159 --> 00:23:09,200
» the toos the topo lines on the show
>> are going are going down for the road

264
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:11,760
here. So, that's those are the to lines.
using

265
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:14,640
here.
>> We don't have

266
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:21,120
right
>> down here.

267
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:28,520
» And the rightway is 912 here.
That would be at the um 27 ft back if we

268
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,520
pushed it to the south

269
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:39,799
kind of parallel. So
>> yeah, because that's the right

270
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,799
» I'd say the road elevation out here.

271
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,960
The road the road itself

272
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:52,240
pretty much matches the the graves that
are there.

273
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:57,600
» Oh, John, excuse me. Can I get your
address, please? You're a visit.

274
00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:01,280
» 49 East 3rd
Avenue, Columbus, Ohio. And

275
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:07,240
» are you in the firm or is it just your
name?

276
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,240
» Archaw Architects. Yep. Thank you.

277
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:12,360
Well, that makes it pretty

278
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,320
» tricky.
>> It is. That That is tricky.

279
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:20,159
» But I see what you're saying. If you're
coming if you're higher up and you're

280
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:25,679
coming southbound
and you lose if it's sitting lower,

281
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:28,880
you're losing that bottom half. So, I I
understand what you're saying.

282
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:33,640
» And you're there's a lot going on there.
You're moving pretty quick. Lights.

283
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,960
» Feel the difference.

284
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:58,400
Yeah, I myself can't really countenance
putting

285
00:24:54,559 --> 00:25:03,440
that size sign 15 ft off the rightway.
And you know, I'm conflicted because I

286
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:08,880
realize that right away is, you know,
pretty far west.

287
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:15,840
But, um, I guess I have to fall back on.
I think those rules regarding sign sizes

288
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:21,919
have good reasons and I'm very hesitant
to, you know, to make that change.

289
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:26,880
That's my own. So, I'd like to find a
way

290
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:32,320
to keep your sign size. Yeah. I mean, I
I don't know if it I mean, can the base

291
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:37,520
be that tall?
>> Well, an option could be

292
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:40,720
» because two, you're
>> maybe this

293
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:45,600
» you're pushing the the if you're pushing
the sign to the end, how close is it to

294
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:49,200
the traffic light as well as you're
coming southbound?

295
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:53,679
» Yeah, it's better to stay away from that
if we can. Normally, you just put the

296
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:58,880
sign in the middle of the site. The
further south you go, the closer it is

297
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:04,000
to decision making. But if we left the
sign

298
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:10,960
where it's approved, but pushed it out
of the gas easement,

299
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:17,679
if we could eliminate the base
and lowered it to 10 ft.

300
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:21,039
It's not as high, but I still have the
reader board to display all the

301
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:26,960
antennas.
Yeah, it' be a lesser deviation. Instead

302
00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:31,200
of going to 14, it'd be approximately
10.

303
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:37,279
» Or if it was if it's there's a grade
there, can you put the base into the

304
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,679
grade? Like start the base in the grade.
>> You can have a little base,

305
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:45,039
» you know,
>> a foot or something where it slopes

306
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:50,000
» like like a rot almost like you do a
rotating wall. Sure. So you can take the

307
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:52,080
side height down from the top of that
grade if you want.

308
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:58,400
» The important thing is to keep the
sideboard size

309
00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:05,919
and if the base is 48 in now and we
decrease it uh so that instead of 14 ft

310
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:09,840
high we have a sign of about you know 10
or 11 10

311
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,440
» 10 10 11 ft
>> because obviously something has to

312
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,720
change
>> so what's the best? So, what would you

313
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,039
be safe?
>> I I think I don't like moving it to the

314
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,279
south because it's too close to the
intersection. It should be center that

315
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:30,480
lot where you make your decisions
quicker. So, I I think our precipice

316
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:39,520
would be if we could push it out but
lower and eliminate the base

317
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:45,279
extra area so you can see it.
That would that would make it work for

318
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:50,799
this site. that seems appropriate based
on the conditions we got.

319
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:56,080
» I feel better about, you know, really
just saying we have to move it x number

320
00:27:53,279 --> 00:28:02,279
of feet outside of the gas. Keep the
same place and reduce the size of the

321
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,279
base

322
00:28:07,954 --> 00:28:15,679
[snorts] 17.
We just lower the base.

323
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:20,240
» So, it's
>> 2T

324
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:23,840
» 10 ft instead of 14.
>> I mean, you need some base obviously

325
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,659
just
>> and it's a pretty base. I like your

326
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,659
base. [laughter]

327
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:41,520
» There you go. But I do think that the
square footage needs to sit

328
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:45,200
» almost in part because I mean if it gets
much smaller at that speed,

329
00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:47,919
» you might as well not have it.
>> You're not going to see eight tenants.

330
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,399
» Yeah.
>> So I mean you need the square footage. I

331
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:57,279
think if you could come on the height a
little bit and come off the gas. I think

332
00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:01,919
it gets into a
what is it? Compromise. Nobody's happy

333
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:10,880
but
>> So then it would basically be

334
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:15,360
84 in off of the gas line gasing.
Correct.

335
00:29:12,399 --> 00:29:18,000
Um,
>> whatever your face is, the width of your

336
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:24,240
face,
>> the the width or the the width of the

337
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:30,559
actual sign is um if we took it outside
of the the 76 in wide

338
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:33,120
» and then if we took off 3 ft [snorts] or
so off the base,

339
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:38,080
» yeah, we
>> we would then have we would have 11 ft

340
00:29:35,679 --> 00:29:44,240
side or
>> uh 10 to 11 11 to 11 ft.

341
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,399
high
low,

342
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:50,320
» right? But I'm saying because you're
still going to have to ask for

343
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,880
» Yeah.
>> It's still not 27 ft.

344
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:58,159
» Exactly.
>> You know, so it would it would be

345
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:01,840
whatever is again, your base is 84 in
wide.

346
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:07,760
» So 84 in off of
>> gas. It's probably going to be about 16

347
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:12,720
ft back instead of 15 because as that
goes on the angle, we'll be able to push

348
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:18,840
closer to the gas line, but we'll still
have

349
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:18,840
a variance of 27 ft.

350
00:30:18,955 --> 00:30:22,480
[snorts]
>> Not only that, but the foundation and

351
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,679
everything has to be able to spread
underneath it. You can't

352
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:28,679
for sure,
>> right?

353
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,320
Jacob Jeff.

354
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:46,080
So it looks like based on the table in
article 25 every foot we move back from

355
00:30:43,679 --> 00:30:51,440
15 ft. You're allowed an extra half foot
height and an extra four square foot

356
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:55,679
side area
for side. [snorts and clears throat] So

357
00:30:52,159 --> 00:30:59,600
it would be eight for both sides. So I
think as you mentioned no matter what if

358
00:30:57,679 --> 00:31:04,960
you're moving it closer than 27 ft
there's going to be a variance a

359
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:08,880
divergence involved there. Um I did a
rough measurement on the other website

360
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:15,360
during a question about the ride of
weight. Um it looks like it's about 30

361
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:21,840
ft like to see some official before
put any weight to that. That's what the

362
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:28,399
measurement on the area says. Um
the requirements of 15 ft. Um you allow

363
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,520
the backs 8 ft in height and 32 square
foot in the sign area and obvious that's

364
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:36,559
a big difference from 14 ft in height
and 128 square feet area.

365
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,760
Um
in the report I mentioned kind of some

366
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:46,000
of the criteria for approval. If you
have any questions on that feel free to

367
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:48,399
let me know. Um regarding criteria F the
proposed development will be compatible

368
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,880
parents with the remainder of the
district. In that I kind of include a

369
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:58,320
table of other signs around the kind of
around the area. Um

370
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,840
I didn't include the pool sign mentioned
for the gas station because I took the

371
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:07,159
final approval for it. That's not to say
it wasn't it might have been built

372
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,159
before there was only

373
00:32:08,997 --> 00:32:11,017
[laughter]

374
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,679
» we don't like to keep making the same
mistake.

375
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,200
So,

376
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:26,399
» but yeah, so touch on some additional
topics.

377
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:32,720
» So, I'll ask
to me there's a big difference between

378
00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:39,600
keeping the originally approved sign
height and dimensions and having it 15

379
00:32:36,399 --> 00:32:44,799
ft off the rightway than there is saying
keep the sign but absolutely got to move

380
00:32:42,159 --> 00:32:50,559
it outside of the gas easement.
It's like a three-year-old. and let its

381
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:56,799
toe touch the bearing head. But [snorts]
to me, that's a big difference is um you

382
00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:03,200
know a divergence 15 ft from the right
of way versus yeah, we got to move it

383
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:07,760
out gas line. It's just me.
I mean that seems reasonable. I mean

384
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:13,320
really all that you proposed seemed
reasonable but

385
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,320
still

386
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:22,000
» and I think we're we're fine with saying
it it comes out of the gas line ement

387
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:26,720
closer to the ride ofway and we could
say whatever width it requires as close

388
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:32,320
as we can get to the gas line ement
including the base and and in lowering

389
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:36,559
it I mean taking
three feet or something off the base so

390
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:42,720
is that now we have 10 three or four
feet cuz I think the base is

391
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:48,000
» even
in the base.

392
00:33:45,679 --> 00:33:52,320
» We took 3 ft off where we would be at 11
ft height instead of 14.

393
00:33:51,178 --> 00:33:57,919
[sighs]
>> So in terms of of options obviously the

394
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:02,159
commission can continue to deliberate as
long as you like. Um, obviously you can,

395
00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:06,080
if you feel that you're not done and you
have more questions, you can continue

396
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:11,520
the hearing. Um, I don't know that
that's where you folks are tonight. If

397
00:34:08,399 --> 00:34:16,639
you want to make a decision, the board
for the commission has three options.

398
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:23,200
You can move to recommend approval of
the application basically as is to the

399
00:34:19,919 --> 00:34:29,040
um to the trustees. You can move to
recommend approval with modifications.

400
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:33,200
The modifications could be again of
location, the size, some of the things

401
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:41,599
that you've been talking about. Or the
third option is you can move to deny. We

402
00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:46,560
recommend denial. Um, but so I I I think
I'm hearing a bit of um I think maybe

403
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:53,440
you're struggling or not struggling,
you're debating whether or not to ask

404
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:56,879
for some type of modification. Um, and
if that is the case, it would be a

405
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,800
matter of just making sure that those
modifications are sufficiently

406
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:07,200
documented.
Um, and then I would perhaps put to the

407
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:11,520
applicant when you go in front of the
trustees, it may be a good idea to have

408
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:17,280
updated material so that it clearly
shows. Um, but

409
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:22,000
I think that's that's all I have to say.
You folks have any questions and I do

410
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:25,000
have draft motions if and when folks are
already

411
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:36,079
like the modification just letting it
out of the gas and lowering it to keep

412
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:40,240
it the same. Like I said, it's not
unreasonable to not put something in a

413
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:44,480
gas season. [clears throat]
>> How many store fronts do you have?

414
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,880
» How many store fronts do you have in
there?

415
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:51,839
» 12.
We think some of the tenants may take

416
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:56,440
two spaces. So that's why we have three
reader boards. So we att

417
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:11,520
» Can I clarify what what you mean by
that? So when you say moved out of gas,

418
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:16,160
are you talking this existing proposed
location? Just move it just enough so

419
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:18,960
it's outside
of the gap

420
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:23,240
» east. Um yeah,
>> that's attachment floor that I'm

421
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:33,760
» so approved location
sliding it outside the gas. How much did

422
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:39,839
it intrude to the gas ement as you
proceeded with this? Did you have

423
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:46,320
» the whole side in the gas?
>> Pretty much. Yeah. So nice.

424
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:49,720
» It was a difficult site
before that.

425
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:59,760
» It was difficult just houses in that
because of the gas heat and it wasn't

426
00:36:57,359 --> 00:37:02,760
building in
gas.

427
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:15,359
We we do it at the top
>> in the east.

428
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:22,800
» So, sounds like it's an approximate move
of six feet to the west assuming you

429
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:28,640
keep the same angle and position
reducing the base so that the total sign

430
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,640
height would be no more than
>> 11.

431
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:39,599
Move it to the east.
>> So, I can do that. So reducing the total

432
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:46,240
height I'm sorry reducing the base um so
that way the total height of the sign is

433
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:53,320
no more than 11 ft.
Moving it to the east end and yes

434
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,320
sliding it to the east.

435
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:09,040
» That's fine with us.
that

436
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:14,640
more thoughts, concerns, questions. I
mean, it's still deviation.

437
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:19,520
Um,
>> but

438
00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:23,599
I mean,
>> it doesn't put you so far south, but it

439
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:27,200
also stays
at 15 ft.

440
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:31,040
» Hate to give up that pretty base, but
something's got to get you. Well, they

441
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:34,851
still have
>> still prec [laughter]

442
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:45,200
I think you can live with that as far as
recommending that.

443
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:49,599
» All right.
>> So, I may read a couple conditions just

444
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:54,000
to make sure sounds right. Um the
location of the sign it'll be subject to

445
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:59,599
the following modifications. One, the
location of the sign shall be as close

446
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:04,880
to the gas ement as possible. i.e. move
the location due east

447
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:10,880
two reduce the height of the base of the
sign so that the total height of the

448
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:15,520
sign is no more than 11 ft.
All right. Um do you want to include as

449
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:18,480
a third condition that the applicant
will submit updated material before the

450
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:24,359
trustee
>> hear? That's in your best interest.

451
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:24,359
Yeah.

452
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:37,040
» Should we also include in that the fact
that the size of the solid remains to

453
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:44,240
request so that
not just the height but the square

454
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,359
» remains the same. So that's not an
ambiguous

455
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:52,079
» or the width
>> the width would be

456
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:58,000
» 64 square foot per side. So if the just
so I understand so if the

457
00:39:55,359 --> 00:40:02,000
square I'm sorry so we're reducing the
height of the sign

458
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:05,200
» but allowing the square footage of the
sign to remain the same

459
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:10,520
wider
>> no just

460
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:10,520
the sign

461
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:18,240
it'll sit on a shorter bit
>> okay I'll say the um

462
00:40:15,359 --> 00:40:23,599
» the main cabinet would that be the the
however they label

463
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:31,480
Top cabinet cabinet
display

464
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:31,480
» display area will still be 64 per side.

465
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:38,599
» You said 64.
>> Yes.

466
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:38,599
» Okay.

467
00:40:41,868 --> 00:40:43,888
[snorts]

468
00:40:50,383 --> 00:40:52,403
» [snorts]

469
00:41:23,133 --> 00:41:27,118
[clears throat]
[snorts]

470
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:39,839
» Let me we change the two of the three.
Um so to reduce the height of the base

471
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:45,760
of the sign so that the total height of
the sign is no more than 11 ft. The

472
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:50,319
display area of the sign shall remain 64
ft per side

473
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:53,119
and that the applicant shall submit
updated materials to the zoning

474
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,599
department reflecting these
modifications prior to the board of

475
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:01,800
trustee
64 square ft.

476
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:15,960
And whoever is interested in reading
motion, if you'd like me to if you'd

477
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,960
like me to decide

478
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,160
to have

479
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,040
» it is a lovely thing for township to
have an attorney available.

480
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,240
» We love that.
>> Yeah, I'm I'm many and then we have to

481
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:32,319
wait and see.
>> It's a new thing. We're still enjoying

482
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:34,400
the novelty of it.
I support it.

483
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,680
» They [laughter]
used to teach their grade.

484
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:41,280
» Oh, you're good. There you go.
>> All right. So, applicant, do you wish to

485
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,880
proceed with the vote this evening? I'm
understanding.

486
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,440
» Yes, we do.
>> All right. Perfect. All right. I make a

487
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:50,720
motion for approval with modifications.
Finding that the application meets

488
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,800
criteria for approval set forth in
section 17.08 [cough and clears throat]

489
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:59,040
of the zoning resolution. I move to
recommend approval of case 18-002

490
00:42:58,109 --> 00:43:04,000
[snorts]
amendment three for modifications to the

491
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:11,359
Hyatt Highest Plaza final development
plan for parcel number 418 330

492
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:17,359
9002
to relocate the proposed monument sign

493
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:21,760
along US 23 and diverge from the
permitted sign height and display area

494
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:26,240
restrictions set forth at article 25
with the following modifications.

495
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:32,000
One, the location of the sign shall be
as close to the gas ement as possible,

496
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:36,680
i.e. move the location due east. Two,
reduce the height of the base of the

497
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,440
base of the

498
00:43:41,839 --> 00:43:46,040
that one. That's a

499
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:55,040
» Oh, [snorts] of the sign. Okay, there's
your G. So that the total height of the

500
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:59,359
sign is no more than 11 ft. The display
area of the sign shall remain Oh three.

501
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:05,359
The display area of the sign shall
remain 64 ft per square feet per side.

502
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:09,920
The applicant shall Oh, was that part of
two? Okay, so that was part of two.

503
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:13,200
Three, the applicant shall submit
updated materials to the zoning

504
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:19,920
department that reflecting these
modifications

505
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:24,000
uh per prior to the board of trustees
meeting.

506
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:29,560
» You got me on that one.
>> I'm so sorry.

507
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,560
» Second,

508
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,839
» Miss Shield.
>> Yes.

509
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,520
» Mr. Matheni,
>> yes.

510
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,440
» Uh Mr. Mr. Christopher.
>> Yes.

511
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,960
» Mr. Armstrong.
>> Yes.

512
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,839
» Miss Kappa.
>> Yes.

513
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,839
» Thank you very much.
>> You are very welcome. Thank you for

514
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,960
working with us on this.
>> Do you want to um sign anything?

515
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:04,079
» Let's not wait another 10 years to work
on the next project.

516
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:06,640
» I'll be too old. So [laughter]
we'll talk about something else.

517
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:12,880
» Yeah.
Thank you. Bye. Take care.

518
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:20,160
» Lisa, you had asked
earlier today for some documentation.

519
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:25,040
» Yeah. And and next we had it's like 400
pages or 420. So next time we do a

520
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:28,560
resolution, we're just going to like
make a reference to it being in the

521
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:32,480
zoning office or something because we
had to put So Julie helped print these

522
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,800
out. Six of page, double spaced, and
we'll put these in. It's a whole zoning

523
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:41,040
resolution.
>> So, that was going to be not fit in the

524
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:44,040
book. So, next time we'll do it
differently.

525
00:45:53,651 --> 00:46:00,240
[laughter]
>> Okay. And you know, I could have I could

526
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:05,520
have done conting
some third graders. I could have done

527
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:08,960
context clues and I'm like
>> so it is Ray's birthday.

528
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:13,520
» Happy birthday.
>> Thank you.

529
00:46:09,839 --> 00:46:16,640
» Yeah. So, um do we have
>> 75

530
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:22,000
more to discuss about our possible
amendments? I know there's a

531
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:26,240
» I had something I wanted to present
regarding that.

532
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:29,520
» Um I did want to give an update. It was
routed to the regional planning

533
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:34,560
commission. and their meeting got moved
up to the 17th. So, we will have

534
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:38,079
recommendations back from then for our
27.

535
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:45,359
» Um,
we've still kind of been working on kind

536
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:50,480
of with the county um on kind of the BIO
VCO. So, I kind of wanted to present

537
00:46:47,839 --> 00:46:55,520
kind of an alternative option to what I
proposed to the last. Um, so I'll go

538
00:46:54,079 --> 00:47:00,760
ahead and hand this out and we can kind
of go through that. That should be

539
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,760
short. Not very long.

540
00:47:03,082 --> 00:47:05,102
[snorts]

541
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:41,359
So this is kind of based off of I
remember from our last discussion

542
00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:48,400
there's kind of the intention that VIO
and VCO are administrative approvals as

543
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:55,119
in the applicant comes in they propose
what is in the plan um they essentially

544
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:59,200
get approved. Um and there is a little
confusion as far as me understanding

545
00:47:57,119 --> 00:48:05,839
that. So I think that's kind of somewhat
where this propos comes from me fully

546
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:10,720
understanding that more. Um so kind of
what this potential amendment will

547
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,720
involve will be kind of retaining that
existing BIO structure where it's

548
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:19,839
administrative.
um the developer comes in they meet it

549
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:23,680
to the exactly it's it's a very
administrative process I think where

550
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:29,520
kind of the confusion [clears throat]
that I have is when you go to the basis

551
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:34,079
of approval for some of those the bio it
still includes kind of some subjective

552
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,480
language as far as this development
meets the

553
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,760
ship for example
or typically if it's administrative

554
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:46,079
approval you would be more objective
standards and I'll kind of go over this

555
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:49,920
more where you're saying this meets the
provisions of the zoning resolution or

556
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:54,960
this meets the design guidelines of the
resolution and you get less into kind of

557
00:48:52,400 --> 00:49:00,800
this meets the public safety goals of
the township. Um because [snorts]

558
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:05,200
ideally I mean when you when you
approved the BIO the trustees kind of

559
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:09,119
already made that determination that it
meets the morals and the public safety

560
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,880
goals of the township. So that's kind of
where where this is coming from as far

561
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:18,480
as
if we could fix that as far as our

562
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:24,000
existing BIO goes. That that's item
number one. Item number two is adding a

563
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:30,720
second kind of path that would give
applicants more flexibility in that say

564
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:35,119
there's a slight modification they want
to do to the BDIO guidelines or they

565
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,119
want to completely do something
different. This would we would still

566
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:43,599
kind of have a path in the form of
providing another overlay that would

567
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:47,680
allow them to use kind of more of a
two-step method where they could propose

568
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:52,720
guidelines similar to what we're
normally used to. That's with our

569
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:58,000
residential development.
>> So not pulling into the cloud is kind of

570
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:02,160
what you're alluding to if I'm wrong.
>> Yeah. So kind of keeping the cloud it's

571
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:07,040
administrative and then kind of adding
it. It's kind of a second cloud where

572
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:11,119
they can propose their own guidelines
and then you'd have a chance to approve

573
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:19,119
it.
One of the things that was laid out

574
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:22,880
did this went through it was
let's say they didn't pick the thing

575
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:30,319
they wanted to do something else in that
case then it becomes

576
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:33,319
regular procedure and that is you have
here

577
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:48,800
the the the speedy
path to approval doesn't exist and you

578
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:56,280
go through a full res. So that's not
really a cloud. It's just you you know

579
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,280
you decide you're going to be the cloud

580
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:03,200
application. That's the difference and
that's why we set it up.

581
00:51:01,359 --> 00:51:08,160
» I would say it's essentially the same
thing. It's just making it more obvious

582
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:12,720
that that's the route in the zoning code
to kind of

583
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:17,359
for whatever reason it's it's confusing
when you look at it. So the the idea is

584
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:22,400
to make the reszoning route more more
apparent to people that are applying.

585
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:26,640
» That sounds like where you follow the
path like

586
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:31,119
» this way and this is your path this way.
>> We've always looked at it's a toggle. If

587
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:36,480
you don't meet the criteria, we're not
going to approve you and But I know you

588
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:40,480
said there's some subjective language. I
don't know why that's there, but

589
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:46,480
I don't know, maybe we were thinking if
they come up with some NS code that kind

590
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:51,359
of little loophole and we're like, no,
you can't build a nuclear plant. We

591
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:55,680
missed that. So
that's my, you know, kind of knee-jerk

592
00:51:53,599 --> 00:52:00,880
thought because that's what we kept that
language there for. But if you don't

593
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:04,640
meet the criteria, then we can't do an
administrative approval because It's not

594
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:08,960
subject to referendum.
>> So, we've kind of said, you know, you

595
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:12,720
need it or you don't. And to your point,
what I'm understanding is you're saying

596
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:16,000
if you don't, then you follow the other
pathway. Okay. That [clears throat] and

597
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,800
I think we're all on the same page. I
think

598
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,680
» that's correct.
>> So, really kind of on the second page

599
00:52:20,319 --> 00:52:27,119
here, I just kind of say there's two
parts. Part one is the development text.

600
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:33,440
Part two is the development plan. In the
case of the BIO and the BCO, the

601
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:38,640
the township's already done part one.
Basically, that's the cloud. That's the

602
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:41,680
overlay BIO. So, in theory, all the
development needs to do is bring a

603
00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:45,280
development plan that meets the
development text that the trustees

604
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:51,440
township approved and then they get
approved. Um,

605
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:55,599
and then kind of skipping to page four
is kind of where a developer will see

606
00:52:53,359 --> 00:53:01,520
these criteria of approval and it it
won't necessarily connect with them that

607
00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:05,599
it's administrative because it's still
still kind of subjective to the board.

608
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:08,720
It it's not as simple as saying, oh, I
met the zoning code and I'm going to get

609
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:13,839
approved because it's still these
subjective um, do I meet the public

610
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:18,800
safety rules of the township, for
example? So that's kind of the the

611
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:22,480
thought there. And so on those two
pages, I kind of highlighted the

612
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:27,119
subjective ones in red and on the next
pa next page, the objective ones in

613
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:31,680
blue.
Kind of from my point of view. I mean,

614
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:37,640
that's up to debate. It's
which ones you want to keep and which

615
00:53:33,359 --> 00:53:37,640
ones you want to change. power.

616
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:43,800
Skip through here.

617
00:53:43,839 --> 00:53:55,440
And in this um I included OCP as well
because that also uses the same kind of

618
00:53:51,839 --> 00:53:58,480
cloud as Vio.
So, I kind of looped that one in there

619
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:03,680
as far as
>> but I think that's that's a

620
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:10,240
touchy subject because it doesn't meet
the like the comprehensive plan as

621
00:54:05,839 --> 00:54:15,920
adopted is does not meet OCPD.
They don't or they're not similar.

622
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:19,280
» That that that is that is true. So then
if you're adopting that then you could

623
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:25,880
pick the finding that it doesn't meet
the comprehensive plan. Um so that's a

624
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,880
good point.

625
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:35,760
So that might be one in OCPD. You might
want to leave that finding in there. So

626
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:39,800
you have to meet the comprehensive plan
>> even though it [clears throat] is

627
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,800
objective.

628
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:49,119
» I mean we've always kind of had that
language about the general public

629
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:55,040
health, safety, welfare, and morals. I
don't believe we've ever declined

630
00:54:51,839 --> 00:55:00,480
an application based on that. Um, we've
had plenty of audience members come up

631
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:05,359
and say they should. Um,
I mean, it's subjective and I get it.

632
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:09,440
I'm hesitant to remove it and I'm not
really sitting here thinking a developer

633
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:13,280
is going to go, "Hey, my plan needs
everything, but I don't know about this

634
00:55:11,119 --> 00:55:18,000
one." Well, I think it kind of it lends
itself to what we've talked about like

635
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:22,079
when we talk about the noise and the um
you know, it's it may not be something

636
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:26,400
that we necessarily deny because of, but
it's that we're keeping that in mind

637
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:30,319
when we have like like we had rise come
in and they had the the noise

638
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:34,480
generation, you know, those type of
things. Like I I wouldn't say it's a

639
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,240
» it gives us latitude to have that
dialogue.

640
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:44,640
» I mean, to your point, it's subjective.
I get it. Um also almost a minuscule

641
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:51,440
part of our language.
>> And because we do ask for like the fire,

642
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:57,960
you know, inspections and and roads and
traffic studies and things like that,

643
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,960
that also, I think, lends itself to

644
00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:08,319
safety and welfare of the township and
immediate vicinity.

645
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:11,200
I get it's subjective,
>> but I I think you could see it

646
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:16,040
subjectively or you could see it
objectively in that matter,

647
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,040
» right?

648
00:56:16,559 --> 00:56:26,000
» I mean, I personally do not like the
morals language at all. Um because

649
00:56:23,839 --> 00:56:29,119
» are is it my morals or is it your
morals? So,

650
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:34,559
» well, I think I think that lends itself
to like what we when we talk about like

651
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:38,720
the historic vibe of the township or
like the rural vibe of the township that

652
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,559
we
and I wouldn't say like I don't think

653
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:48,400
morals is the right word either, but I
think that that's probably what it lends

654
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:53,760
itself to is cuz we use that. I mean, my
issue isn't like this board comes up

655
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:58,960
with something that believes, you know,
morals are wrong, but like I mean, that

656
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:05,359
gives someone, I don't know, in my mind
way too much power to be like, well, I

657
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:10,559
don't really like that people can buy
alcohol on Sunday, you know what I mean?

658
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:14,720
Like, I don't know that that scares me
that someone could all of a sudden up

659
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,680
and decide the moral is totally
different.

660
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:22,960
» But we we have had discussions about
like marijuana and um dispensaries and

661
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:28,000
things like that. We've talked about
that in our zoning resolution, too. So,

662
00:57:25,994 --> 00:57:33,440
[snorts] and if I may, because you you
folks aren't wrong, but that is an that

663
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:39,280
is a very odd word and that is something
that is outlined in the law in terms of,

664
00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:45,520
you know, general health, safety,
welfare, morals. Um and and so that so

665
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:50,240
what I would say I don't know that I'm
saying anything that the commission

666
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:57,280
doesn't know is that those are that is
the legal standard. Um I don't disagree

667
00:57:53,040 --> 00:58:00,000
with you that it seems like uh morals is
probably a full word of the day gone by.

668
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:06,720
Um
>> it's a 19th century word.

669
00:58:01,599 --> 00:58:14,160
» Exactly. Exactly. Um but um and and
while your ability to pick things on on

670
00:58:10,319 --> 00:58:20,640
true morals is probably
would have been well you can't have a a

671
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:26,000
liquor store near X Y or Z or um
I don't know like a radio station

672
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:30,240
playing you know music of illreute near
school. So again, those things that just

673
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:33,200
maybe aren't necessarily such a world
problem these days,

674
00:58:30,799 --> 00:58:38,000
» just like legal just legal guardian.
>> Exactly. Exactly. So um and what what I

675
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:46,720
would a government for.
>> Correct. Um and what you know what I

676
00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:50,480
would say is it is a it's a from a
um

677
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:54,079
having that type of language. I I don't
disagree with anything that J said in

678
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:57,440
terms of you know objective standards
that type of thing. But I wouldn't say

679
00:58:55,599 --> 00:59:03,680
right or wrong or different. Sometimes
it's nice to have that backup

680
00:59:00,799 --> 00:59:07,440
um as just like a back stop if nothing
else. Um and so

681
00:59:06,210 --> 00:59:11,760
[clears throat and cough] but but again
at the end of the day it's ultimately

682
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:18,160
the commission's
decision. Yeah, I'll caveat saying if

683
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:23,680
the goal is to streamline certain
approvals that exactly meet the BIO as

684
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:31,160
it was approved by the township, then it
might make sense to kind of maybe lessen

685
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:31,160
some of those things.

686
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:39,040
» I I'm more like the six doesn't make
sense to me in a way. I mean, we have

687
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:43,680
got very
specific architectural standards. I

688
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:49,160
don't know how we throw number six into
that with a straight face. Um

689
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:55,760
» Yeah, I agree. Um because we already
have a very thorough checklist.

690
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:58,760
» Yeah. Um so I could see that one going
away.

691
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:14,319
and proposed development number three,
conformity with comprehensive plan. I

692
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:19,280
mean, if it's designated under the BIO,
the BCO,

693
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:23,400
I'm not sure the relevance of that.
Um, am I missing something

694
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:33,599
as long as they're alive? I mean,
>> well, that also might may apply to the

695
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:37,839
fact that talking about whether it's
commercial or industrial

696
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:42,240
Okay, that makes sense
>> because you don't want to set

697
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:45,920
» we don't want to spot zone.
>> No,

698
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:49,599
» we we don't want to drop industrial use
of the commercial and vice versa.

699
01:00:49,047 --> 01:00:56,799
[clears throat]
>> So that's one of the things that we

700
01:00:53,440 --> 01:01:00,559
» that way we didn't want to do that. So
>> that's that's not subjective though

701
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:04,880
either. I don't find that language
subjective for free.

702
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:08,640
» I don't either. What I can think of in
terms of that Oh, and I agree with you

703
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:13,559
there. That's a good reason to keep it,
but I wouldn't necessarily say it's a

704
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:13,559
joke.

705
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:22,640
» That would almost play Sorry to inter
that almost play in with the ending of

706
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:28,480
number six, I would feel like more to
your concern with the surrounding

707
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:32,799
existing proposed land uses instead of
dropping a industrial right in the

708
01:01:30,319 --> 01:01:37,960
middle of a commercial. Mhm.
>> If you want, you could separate that

709
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,960
out.

710
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:47,000
» It says appearance. So
>> draw appearance.

711
01:01:53,680 --> 01:02:03,200
My thinking with these ones that I kind
of put in the red here, if if the board

712
01:02:00,319 --> 01:02:09,599
if the commission's happy with the BIO,
then if a project comes that is

713
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:12,640
» if a project comes that meets everything
in the BIO, this filing should be

714
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:15,520
relatively straightforward.
>> It it should.

715
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:18,880
» If not, we should change the BIO,
>> right?

716
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:22,480
Well, okay, not to stir the pot too
much, but you know, we had all these

717
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:26,720
gentlemen from economic development and
it stuck with me. The one gentleman

718
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:30,880
said, you know, we I'm paraphrasing, we
sort of doubt that you guys really want

719
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:37,119
this to be developed. And I was a little
takenback by that because I'm like,

720
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:42,319
you know,
>> I saw that more of a thing that track

721
01:02:40,319 --> 01:02:51,200
because, you know, they got the
infrastructure in now. They're going to

722
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:55,119
get a return for it which I understand
county for that for

723
01:02:53,520 --> 01:03:01,280
the
pump station and the you know putting in

724
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:05,440
the water power that sort of thing. So
you know now that the infrastructure is

725
01:03:02,799 --> 01:03:10,880
there they want to accelerate using the
thing and I I took that more as a thing

726
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:15,680
of them saying
well prove to us that we want as a way

727
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:20,160
of reaching
I I took it that way.

728
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:26,799
» I just got the zoning in place, the
plan's in place. Um we can quibble on if

729
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:31,880
we think certainly do stay right. It'll
never be 100% the way we want it. But

730
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:39,319
does seem straightforward to me and I'm
not a developer so

731
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:47,520
» we'll see what
>> I Do you really feel like these are

732
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:55,119
obstacles to a streamlined process?
>> So from my experience, anytime you have

733
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:58,319
something that isn't a checklist
that's if you do this, you're going to

734
01:03:56,559 --> 01:04:05,400
get approved.
>> It introduces risk and uncertainty and

735
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:05,400
developers don't like search.

736
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:12,839
» Yeah, you can't really fit that one into
a check box.

737
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:23,280
Wait, did you have stuff that you
proposed instead of those?

738
01:04:21,599 --> 01:04:27,760
» So,
our current

739
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:34,720
initiated amendment has no changes to
the planning. So, as is

740
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:40,400
kind of um what what we put forward
kind of a change from the administrative

741
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:44,559
process to more of a two-step process
where now

742
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:50,319
This proposed amendment would be keeping
the administrative process and kind of

743
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:56,319
also including that two-step process
and we would

744
01:04:52,720 --> 01:05:02,640
be modifying the findings for that that
um existing process at [sighs]

745
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:07,760
if that makes sense.
>> Yeah. I don't think we ever

746
01:05:05,839 --> 01:05:11,480
looked at this as if we wanted to
discard the administrative

747
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:20,200
process
refine it and make it

748
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:20,200
more approachable.

749
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:27,200
I I see what you're saying about those
things you can't just fit into a nice

750
01:05:23,839 --> 01:05:31,355
neat check box. Yes, we need in
particular number eight I'm hesitant to

751
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:36,240
discard.
[snorts] Um,

752
01:05:34,319 --> 01:05:39,440
I think number three seems to me to be
self.

753
01:05:39,215 --> 01:05:44,160
[laughter]
>> I think all number three really does is

754
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:48,240
just asking you know
applicants to take a look at the

755
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:54,240
comprehensive land use plan and make
sure that you know it it matches what

756
01:05:53,280 --> 01:06:00,319
is asked of.
>> You could put that in your box honestly.

757
01:05:57,039 --> 01:06:03,920
Does this meet the current comprehensive
plan? Yes or no?

758
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:07,760
» Do we know do other counties include
number eight? Like is that like a

759
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:12,240
regular thing that other counties?
>> So it's not like they're like, "Hey, we

760
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:18,640
got to go to Berlin where they're foot
loose and you know what I mean? like can

761
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:22,240
we go argue with this board or not?
>> That's pretty boilerplate language.

762
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:26,720
» Exactly. In terms of town township
zoning, that is like that's just a a

763
01:06:24,319 --> 01:06:31,599
core fundamental principle that your
authority rests in public health,

764
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:37,119
safety, welfare, and walls.
>> Yeah, I was going to say cuz I know four

765
01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:39,920
and seven. I was pulling up that 519021
and they're like verbatim

766
01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:44,880
» correct
>> from the description of the Ohio. So, I

767
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:48,559
was just trying to find where those
maybe a couple of these others were in

768
01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:53,680
there. And it's not so much that we
created them for the BIO. It's more just

769
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:55,920
we included them because there is that
5192

770
01:06:55,196 --> 01:06:59,599
[clears throat]
>> legal boiler point.

771
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:05,599
» Yeah. Well, and kind of
>> I think what distinguishes this one in

772
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:09,440
in five 50 519021C,
the trustees are approving step one and

773
01:07:07,839 --> 01:07:14,880
they're using all those findings in
their approval of step one, which is the

774
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:21,119
BIO cloud that was already approved by
the township and they use these findings

775
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:25,760
cloud. Um, so theoretically, everything
that's allowed in that cloud should be

776
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:30,079
always fine, right?
I'd say the same thing with the

777
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:34,960
comprehensive plan as well. Uh by virtue
of floating the cloud

778
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:40,559
that the township said, you know, these
uses in this area

779
01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:47,119
meet the comp plan. They meet the public
health safety and welfare and morals of

780
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:51,520
of the county as well.
Yeah, if anything, these are

781
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,799
duplicative or
>> and I think that's why opening up the

782
01:07:52,880 --> 01:08:00,480
use codes and and really digging deeper
into those is helpful to allow more

783
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:06,640
applicants to come in and say, okay, we
now have a shot in Berlin,

784
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:11,119
» then it's an easier easier process with
your thing or could be an easier

785
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:17,679
process. But if you want to take it to
the take it deeper, then you could take

786
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:21,600
it deeper. Well, and I think and we've
all talked about it. The original BIO

787
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:28,880
VCO
2019, 2020 or six years down the road,

788
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:31,600
everybody, nobody was coming until they
had the infrastructure because they

789
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:37,120
couldn't build anything anyway, right?
>> I'm like, but now six years later, what

790
01:08:34,719 --> 01:08:41,359
is what's coming to Delaware County and
asking them if they can go there is not

791
01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:44,960
what would have been coming and asking
them six years ago.

792
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:49,759
» So, I think I think
I think I think part of that is going to

793
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:55,359
be the economic development committee
being more communicated to us of here's

794
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,799
what we think is coming. Can we be
proactive to get them into your

795
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:03,759
resolution
before we get the application and now

796
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:06,960
we're waiting on you to get your zoning
updated to get them to be able to come

797
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:09,359
in.
>> Yeah.

798
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:13,199
» You know, if and I think that's it. I
think we're a couple years behind what

799
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:16,799
they're getting and they're saying, "Oh,
we have all these people that might be

800
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,679
interested, but they're not okay for
zoning." And we're like, "Well, how

801
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,679
would we update anything if we don't
know them?"

802
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:25,040
» Exactly.
>> Like, you know, in other words, if they

803
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:29,359
have leaders out there they think are
going to, [clears throat]

804
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:32,239
we need them coming to us before those
people are like, "Oh, well, it's not in

805
01:09:30,719 --> 01:09:36,000
your zoning code, so we're going to go
somewhere else." Like, if they're doing

806
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:41,359
this type of review every couple of
years, I think maybe we can get what's

807
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:46,880
kind of more of the common or more
prevalent development right now as

808
01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:50,560
opposed to like you said 5 10 years ago.
I mean you couldn't have 5 10 years ago

809
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:54,080
you wouldn't have guessed all the data
center issues. You wouldn't have guessed

810
01:09:52,159 --> 01:09:58,800
a lot of the other industry that started
to come up with the EVs and everything

811
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:04,320
that would be coming into the area that
>> you know we just didn't see it. Neither

812
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:08,480
did they really. So
I understand they

813
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:12,719
want to get you know they say that you
know you must not want any develop we

814
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:19,120
don't know what we don't know
>> exactly. So,

815
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:25,840
» so then almost a potential third item on
the on the front page of reviewing the

816
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:29,520
list of permitted uses, reviewing and
potentially updating based on Yeah, that

817
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:36,080
is a good point. It's hard to believe
2019 and 2020, better part of a decade

818
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:40,880
ago. Um, no, that that is a fair point
of not just making the administration

819
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:45,920
and the process easier, but are there
that

820
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:48,719
makes sense now that makes sense
>> and those I think we're get those we're

821
01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:51,920
getting.
>> Yeah, I think I think

822
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:58,920
» so. We did a good job
>> done our best at this point

823
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,920
» on that.

824
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:08,000
Just to close that out, just on the
second to last page, there's a table. It

825
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:14,080
kind of outlines two of the options that
I've talked in. It kind of outlines the

826
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:19,600
paths the developers could take. Um
whether it's the it's the standard

827
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:25,080
administrative or the kind of alternate
path that

828
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,080
we talked about.

829
01:11:27,679 --> 01:11:39,040
I still think we need to discuss like
you suggested about flipping the ARB

830
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:43,280
somewhere else because
I think they're coming in here like,

831
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:48,880
"Wait a minute, I have to have all the
details of everything before I even make

832
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:56,560
it to the BBC to know if this is going
to be an okay project."

833
01:11:52,560 --> 01:12:01,440
And on this table, um, I kind of
separated it between development and

834
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:06,480
site plan review, which is kind of a
term for final development plan. So,

835
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:10,000
kind of on this table, anytime it's
supposed to be a final development plan

836
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:14,800
is when the ARB is involved.
>> Um, you notice in number two, step one,

837
01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:21,120
the RB is not involved because it's
still just a preliminary development

838
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:24,239
plan. Um, and then step two, the RB gets
involved because when they're giving

839
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:30,320
their final development. They should
have those things figured out.

840
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:36,239
» So, once again, I'm stirring the pot.
Um, option two moves us back to a

841
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:42,560
two-step plan, which we do get rid of
that how many years ago? Three, four at

842
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:48,719
the urging of our trustees. Um, I was
opposed. It was the L. But, but here we

843
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:53,199
go again. I mean, the pendulum is
swinging. Is is that really our intent?

844
01:12:51,440 --> 01:12:56,239
And will that be supported by the
trustees?

845
01:12:54,080 --> 01:13:02,159
» I think what with what he's saying is
that there's it's just it's the path of

846
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:05,440
the developer. It's not the path of us
and what we decided.

847
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:10,719
» It is cuz then it comes to us to
>> right. I'm saying like it's whatever the

848
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:14,080
cuz like you know how we talked about it
the developer then it takes a number of

849
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:18,800
days a number of days a number of days
or applicant I should say and then it's

850
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,080
them deciding whether they want to take
that long path or they want to take the

851
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,679
short path
>> you know that that's on them if they

852
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,000
want to take the full you know
>> sure

853
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:32,159
» two-step path and it's going to take a
long time to make sure things are right

854
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:36,080
» that's on them
>> but as of right now there is no two-step

855
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:41,360
path am I Right.
>> That's that's that's correct.

856
01:13:38,719 --> 01:13:43,360
» Unless it's the full reason like you
suggested,

857
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:49,600
» right?
>> Well, I I think for one point when it

858
01:13:46,541 --> 01:13:53,440
[clears throat] went to one step and
they're to come in here with final

859
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:57,679
development plan,
the reason we went to the two-step in

860
01:13:55,199 --> 01:14:01,199
the first place was the fact that we
were getting complaints about, look at

861
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:07,360
all the money I got to put in this thing
through final development plan. I even

862
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:13,440
have to have PL ready to go, stuff like
that. And uh might get turned down or

863
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:19,120
have to redo it all in the one step
thing before it goes to the trustees. So

864
01:14:17,199 --> 01:14:24,800
they spend all that money for nothing.
they get to redo it for the trustees or

865
01:14:22,719 --> 01:14:29,120
they get turned down here and the
trustees and then put all the money in

866
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:36,080
which is why we went to the twostep in
the first place was to try to eliminate

867
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:41,199
wasted money and time on the part of the
developers

868
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:49,920
actually came in with stuff and got a
yes or no before they invested all that

869
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:55,120
» I would say just further clarify this.
So you'll see the box one is the OC

870
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:59,280
519021C.
So that's the the streamline approval

871
01:14:57,679 --> 01:15:03,840
administrative.
Um and the next two boxes are kind of

872
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:08,239
two different options the developer can
take. So instead of going to either a

873
01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:11,440
one-step process or a twostep process,
we're basically saying that the

874
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:16,880
applicant can decide if they want to do
a one-step process or a twostep process

875
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:22,679
for that second part when they're mod
when they're using 51921A instead of C.

876
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:31,199
» So we'd be presenting an option that
doesn't currently exist, which would be

877
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:36,400
that two-step process. Mhm. And that
that would be for the for the applicant

878
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:39,600
that wants to know if their use is
approved before they go through and get

879
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:44,239
a full final development plan.
>> And it's also it's the planned unit

880
01:15:41,679 --> 01:15:48,560
development. It's not the BIO or the
BCO. So it would be more traditional

881
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:52,480
zoning not falling into the cloud. So
it's not administrative review.

882
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,640
» Correct. Okay.
>> Make sure

883
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:14,800
My bias has always been the two-step
process. So I talking um but if we're

884
01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:19,840
going to
add the two-step process back, I think

885
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:25,280
that's
something we haven't really

886
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:28,320
flushed out. I guess
>> as long

887
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:31,040
They haven't chosen to do the
administrative.

888
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:38,800
» Sure. Right.
>> The other question I've got is

889
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:44,719
this really isn't just for the BIO.
I mean, we should be considering the BCO

890
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:52,640
besides we've got a lot more. If you
look at the percentage, we've got 500

891
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:52,640
acres in Ohio, right?

892
01:16:54,528 --> 01:17:00,920
» [clears throat]
>> Yeah, my intention is that it would

893
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,920
apply

894
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:09,679
as well. I also include those CPD
because it's also [snorts] a C uh it's a

895
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:17,280
50921c type of cloud overlay. So it's a
very restrictive law for the way.

896
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:24,239
» So it we can do it either way. We can do
Vio BCA BCO and drop OCPV

897
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:29,640
keep it OCP
whichever whichever way you prefer.

898
01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:33,228
[snorts]

899
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:51,679
I'm not sure the OCPD fits into this. It
seems like that's a can of worms.

900
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:55,498
» It was a can of worms.
>> It It's worms. [laughter]

901
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,840
» Um,

902
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:05,600
okay. Another question that I feel like
it should have an obvious answer and I

903
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:13,040
just don't know is all right two-step PD
path does show it going to the ARD

904
01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:20,520
and my understanding was the only things
that went to the ARB were things that

905
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:20,520
pulled into the cloud. Am I wrong? Did I

906
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:31,600
» So does the CO and OCP right now are the
only things. So step two having the ARB

907
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:36,159
in there I'm a little perplexed by. So
>> it was still a part of the twostep when

908
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:42,239
it was a twostep
>> bio this sp

909
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:46,400
» since it still would be the pertaining
to the Berlin business park bio bio I

910
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:50,880
still
>> because it's in that designated land

911
01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:56,159
area it would still okay I mean I'm okay
with that I just didn't we did that

912
01:18:54,080 --> 01:19:00,960
» yeah it seemed to me that the intent was
in this area you want the air looking at

913
01:18:58,239 --> 01:19:04,400
» yeah I mean I I would agree I mean, we
did have an applicant three years ago, I

914
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:12,560
guess, that came in and said they were
going to be in the spirit of

915
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:16,040
which it's really vague.
I like that.

916
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:26,560
» I mean, I think this makes sense. Like,
you know, I agree with you that anytime

917
01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:33,600
a developer, right, doesn't have their
checklist, like, yeah, absolutely.

918
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:39,520
be going somewhere else. So, I mean, I
like that you have this, but

919
01:19:37,679 --> 01:19:43,120
you know, obviously if the trustees
don't want us to do a two-step, I mean,

920
01:19:41,199 --> 01:19:45,040
that would be that would be a whole
different

921
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:50,440
» I think we need a conversation with them
because they were very adamant when we

922
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,440
went to one step.

923
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:57,840
» We have some different trustes now, too.
I feel like it more often than not

924
01:19:55,199 --> 01:20:00,880
though I but I get it. I don't know that
there has been many that have come

925
01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:06,560
through
the BIO or the BCO since we went to a

926
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:09,920
one step if any at all.
>> You know that who's to say it's not

927
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:14,800
going to be denied going to come back to
us anyways and the

928
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:19,520
» technically it becomes a two-step.
>> Well, and one trustee said to me one

929
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:22,159
step doesn't mean one meeting.
>> That's that's a really good point.

930
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:26,560
Sometimes they do kind of come in and
that first meeting we're going to

931
01:20:23,679 --> 01:20:32,199
approve tonight. It's there's way too
much to be considered early for that to

932
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,199
be realistic.

933
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:39,800
So call it one step, call it two step as
long as they didn't stop.

934
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:48,880
Um
Jacob, do you talk to the trustees about

935
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:55,360
any of this stuff? Is that a doorway
that you are walking through ever or

936
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:59,600
» see? We we get opinions from them.
>> I mean, has this twostep been posted at

937
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:04,320
all?
>> There there's there's I would say

938
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:07,600
there's a desire to provide alternate
routes for

939
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:11,040
» Okay. Yeah. I just would hate for us to
put this into, you know, action and

940
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:15,400
they're going to go, "What are you doing
now? We're not going to do that."

941
01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:21,840
» Yeah. So like we we've been working with
the county economic development. Okay.

942
01:21:19,679 --> 01:21:25,600
» With that
getting

943
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:30,159
a way to get people in the door and
>> that's what I think.

944
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:35,040
» And has it any
>> I mean I hate it. I think you guys are

945
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:41,520
the face of this, right? Like let us
help you with that checklist. And um I

946
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:44,880
think a lot of it lands at your feet. So
Oh, you're making a sad face. Is that

947
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:51,760
bad? [laughter]
me you me oh no no no no

948
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:54,960
it is very fair point of just like I've
been reflecting on what you said of you

949
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:59,280
know economic development folks saying
they don't want development you know

950
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:03,520
like this is instead of putting it in to
help

951
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:08,960
um facilitate development of like this
is the goal is to hinder and you know

952
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:13,280
that to to cause more of a problem that
there's a lot of food for thought um

953
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:17,840
» I was really taken back by that I know
they have their way presenting stuff and

954
01:22:15,440 --> 01:22:22,880
I was like I how can people even say
that that and get and you know I think

955
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:27,600
that um the meetings that I've said and
where this discussion's come up it is a

956
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:30,880
consistent theme of put something in a
few years ago we hadn't had any

957
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:37,280
applications for an obvious good idea
like okay how do we what we have now

958
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:42,239
clearly is not um motivating applicants
so what can we do

959
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:47,577
» right
>> I'm not trying to be the bad guys either

960
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:51,520
you know, we do try to make it
[clears throat]

961
01:22:48,719 --> 01:22:54,639
» streamline it and
close as possible.

962
01:22:53,600 --> 01:23:01,639
» I mean, we're looking after the
township, but we're trying to follow the

963
01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:01,639
code and the law and stuff.

964
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:07,239
» I find that

965
01:23:09,847 --> 01:23:14,880
[laughter]
23

966
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:18,880
look at it this way. There there's other
business parks within Delaware County.

967
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:25,760
You know, city of Delaware has one now
because we're drive

968
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:32,080
it is and some of the other locations
do. Also, ours didn't have

969
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:37,120
Jasper's one hit this on the head was,
you know, until less than a year ago, we

970
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:39,199
didn't have the infrastructure to put in
anything,

971
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:45,760
» right?
>> It wasn't complete. The water tower

972
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:50,880
almost in his backyard. Uh what wasn't
even completed [clears throat] until

973
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:57,679
what a year ago, something like that.
And uh you know, they're certainly

974
01:23:54,320 --> 01:24:03,040
reinforcing the electric substation up
here, you know, changing all the lines

975
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:09,600
out of it. So, you know, for increased
capacity and

976
01:24:06,719 --> 01:24:14,480
in other words, you know, without the uh
pump station being down until this last

977
01:24:12,719 --> 01:24:20,159
year also, I mean, there there was
nobody to put anything in

978
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:23,280
business except going to build a piece
of land.

979
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:28,400
» So,
now is the time of economic development

980
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:35,360
at least on this one, right? I know that
they work on the entire county and these

981
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:39,280
other business parks also, but
that's why they I'm sure they came to us

982
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:45,840
and we need to talk about coats because
those haven't been touched since the

983
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:50,600
thing went in years ago.
>> That's the driving factor for

984
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:02,159
» Okay. So
>> that's this is not part of what we put

985
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:06,400
forth in our original recommendation.
Correct. So I know there's going to be a

986
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:11,840
lot of dialogue. This is stuff to
consider.

987
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:18,229
» So if the commission's okay with their
direction, I can start working on a um

988
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:19,920
amendment to the amendment.
[laughter]

989
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:25,199
And then
>> the only other thought to that is um and

990
01:25:23,199 --> 01:25:31,040
I hate to kind of start two amendments
at once. However, the only other thought

991
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:34,639
is regional planning will not if if the
goal is to amend the amend the current

992
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:40,800
amendment, regional planning will not
preview that language, right? And um

993
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:45,280
given that there's been county input and
discussion, that may be something that

994
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:49,360
is quite valuable. So, it may be to
start two amendments at once, but um

995
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:55,040
just something to think about. I will
say I did kind of give

996
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:59,920
the regional commission a heads up that
this there might be some more changes to

997
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:03,280
this. So that's not going to catch some
surprise that there is going to some

998
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:08,600
further changes to it.
>> Okay. How would we integrate that before

999
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:08,600
it gets to

1000
01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:14,159
» I don't know if you officially can do
it.

1001
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:19,360
» Yeah.
>> Okay. So this just have to be part of

1002
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:23,080
the dialogue as we proceed through our
hearings and things

1003
01:26:24,159 --> 01:26:28,040
a lot of threads to pull.

1004
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:40,159
» I I would say that this change
in kind of a roundabout way isn't

1005
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:44,400
changing much in that we're I've kind of
already given them the two-step code

1006
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:49,280
process because I wasn't understanding
administrative process.

1007
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:54,800
» So now we're just kind of adding both my
changes we put forward on the 25th and

1008
01:26:52,239 --> 01:26:58,280
also keeping our original code kind of
adding two options.

1009
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:02,719
» I mean
>> just have to make it

1010
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:09,199
» if it's kind of what we're doing is this
really just like a branding you know

1011
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:13,920
what I mean like you know is this like a
website clarification rather than like a

1012
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:18,960
code clarification?
I would say at a at a base level it

1013
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:24,120
could be done that way. Um but I would
say there still are things in the code

1014
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:24,120
that need to be cleaned up.

1015
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:32,320
» So we really can't take any action on
this per se.

1016
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:37,120
» Correct.
>> We're getting started.

1017
01:27:34,159 --> 01:27:40,960
» Yeah. Just getting feedback kind of an
update on kind of what's going on here

1018
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:44,360
with
>> staff's thoughts.

1019
01:27:47,679 --> 01:27:50,920
makes sense.

1020
01:27:56,480 --> 01:28:01,679
» If we're done with that, I did want to
introduce formerly our new zoning

1021
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:08,639
inspector.
>> Hello. You want to say anything to

1022
01:28:04,239 --> 01:28:15,679
» um happy to be here. I I'm coming from
Blended Township,

1023
01:28:10,639 --> 01:28:22,239
uh kind of where West Columbus me. Um,
this is a lot closer to home and my

1024
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:26,400
in-laws live over there on Black.
It's kind of more home ground for me.

1025
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:29,760
So, happy to be here.
>> Welcome.

1026
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:32,560
» So, what two two and a half weeks in
now?

1027
01:28:30,639 --> 01:28:35,600
» Uh, this is the beginning of my third
week. So,

1028
01:28:33,679 --> 01:28:39,679
» okay.
>> And he didn't run away.

1029
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:45,960
» He hasn't run yet or scream. I did I did
ask is the door locked from the outside

1030
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,960
» from the inside.

1031
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:53,760
» Everybody contains here.
>> That's our new HR policy.

1032
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:58,239
» Pat, since the writ of Pat started, he's
made some built-in modifications.

1033
01:28:56,320 --> 01:29:03,120
» Oh my god.
>> All right. Any other business we should

1034
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:08,800
consider or talk about? Um, don't forget
to sign your meeting minutes, please.

1035
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:10,960
And shall we juror?
Yes,

1036
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:17,719
» I'll make a motion to adjourn.
>> I'll second. All right,

1037
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,719
my gown. Thank you.

1038
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:36,080
» Seems like if you show up,
>> I guess how [clears throat] it works. I

1039
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,080
was so sad.