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And welcome to the regular meeting of the Birmingham Planning Board for Wednesday, December 10, 2025. Could we please call the roll?

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Thank

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you for purpose of this meeting both Duncan and Nassim are going to be voting members.

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So we have a quorum of seven and we'll proceed.

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First item is review and approve of the minutes of the regular meeting of November 12, 2025.

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Are there any comments?

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And if not, could I have a motion to approve?

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Comments?

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No comments.

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Move to approve of the minutes of November 12, 2025 is presented?

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Is there a second to the motion?

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Second?

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Any comments? All in favor please signify by saying aye.

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Aye.

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My comments, this is a little bit of a mixed metaphor meeting.

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I would like to suggest that we move the pre-application discussion for 3, 4, 9, 5, 2, woodward, which is item L, 1, up ahead of the study session, so that they can make a presentation.

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And I'd have to sit around for a couple hours waiting for our deliberations.

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That's acceptable.

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So the board?

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So we will proceed with the zoning, or excuse me, the zoning ordinance update

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After we complete the pre-app discussion of 3, 4, 9, 5, 2.

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Wardward, Mr. Oki, you're here.

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You want to stand up and tell us what you know.

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Hello.

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That's that comment, just speak for it, and then I'll give them a OK.

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So introduce yourself, sir.

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Hello, everybody.

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My name is Sam Bosno.

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I'm the CEO of the Beztech companies.

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And I appreciate you taking the time today and here are a little bit about our project.

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And very interested in hearing your comments as well.

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And by the way, thank you for moving up the schedule.

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So, I'm here with the Zack Weiss system by President of Development and Acquisitions and you guys know the Soroku team Victor and Alex,

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so for those you don't know, best tack is a, almost a, I think it's about 70 year family business based in Michigan, and we have offices in Florida as well, that focus on apartments and

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and we also are the owner of the all-season communities

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and Birmingham just, you know, almost behind this project as well.

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So, you know, just a little bit of background on us.

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We have about 30,000 units that we own or manage,

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and we also have portfolio of commercial properties,

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and we operate in 14 different states.

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We're a long-term holders of real estate.

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We have some properties that we've all in since the late 60s, 70s, so we have a very long-term

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view on real estate and planning and operations is something we specialize in, and we think

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about, certainly because of the duration of the asset

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that we plan on owning on term.

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I know this project can particularly

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were very excited to be here today on.

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I personally tried to develop this property

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over for the last 10 years,

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and I know there's been others before us

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that have worked on some plans.

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So I know you guys are familiar with the site

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and some of the challenges of this site,

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But we believe we're the right developer for that, certainly our approach to developing real

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state is not just to stick a building on a side and see if it works.

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We really roll up our sleeves and we have every project that we develop is completely different.

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So this project in particular is challenging and we have a lot of great ideas that we think

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for this development to really enhance the Birmingham community,

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knowing that it's a very prominent piece of property,

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and prominent in the city of Birmingham.

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So we look forward to hearing from your comments.

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As I said, we believe that we have the capabilities

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to take this through.

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This is certainly not the biggest project we've ever developed.

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and it's something that, you know, as a type of company, you know, who primarily, the

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festy things are selves and it's a project that we want to have in the family for a long

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term.

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So anyways with that, I will turn it over to Victor and Alex to talk about the project and of course

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be around here if you have any questions for me or on the project or for Zach.

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So, thank you, and about 40 hearing every time.

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Thank you, Sam.

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Victor Siroki, I'm here with my son, Alex.

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Nick, if it's okay, maybe we can put up the first

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just a cover sheet, even.

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Here for us.

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This is what I have, is the first.

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That's fine.

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So, obviously, we are Siroki architecture,

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and we're very excited to be here.

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And excited to present another unique opportunity.

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And a big opportunity for city and that is for the development and southeast corner of Woodward and Maple.

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By the way, we were also family owned business 43 years.

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That is long as I am but we are doing okay.

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So I just thought that was nice that he said that.

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As you, I know you've seen the package.

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I think city sounded out to you in advance, so I'm sure you had a chance

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And we just flip through the deck, we'll give kind of a brief overview

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that goes through the deck as well.

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Obviously, this is a proposal for a nine-story mixed-use building.

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We have two floors of underground parking.

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And so on the lowest floor, B2, we call it.

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We got about 152 cars, and B1, we got 157 cars.

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The first floor is a very tall retail space,

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and the retail front example of woodward and maple along with some building lobbies and then behind

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that retail space we've got two more levels of parking hidden on the inside corner and I think

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was notable to say is none of the parking is going to be visible from any of the streets it is

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all hidden within the building. So from the building facade.

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We worked very hard with the whole team to make sure that we had building frontages, not just parking levels and parking decks.

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I'm going to talk a little bit more about the parking behind the retail spaces, but what's also important is we do all want a tall retail first floor.

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And it also is kind of the podium of the building, right?

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All reach out to pressure.

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And we always like to say, every building

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has got a great base about the end of the top.

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So that tall retail floor is special.

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And retail likes tall spaces.

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Whereas parking level do not need the same height.

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So using that tall retail space,

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we can get two levels of parking behind it.

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That's a clever way to get more parking

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and make it efficient.

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Floors 2 through 7 are apartments, and those apartments are, we have about 1096 apartments,

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987 apartments, apartments range from 900 square feet to about 1,400 square feet, I know

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he's going through the deck, we'll go through it a little bit more.

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And then the top two floors are the 8th and 9th floor are 27 condominiums, those will be 4th sale.

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And the condominiums are 1800 to 2500 square feet.

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We actually have separate lobbies for each of the uses as well.

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The apartments have their own lobbies, and that's off of maple.

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And the condominiums have their own lobbies, and that's off of maple.

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And they also have their own elevators for those uses.

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We are going to request and you can see this in the proposal for two additional floors, the 8th and 9th floor, and actually for part of the 6th floor in the MU5.

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And that's allowed by ordinance. So in the MU5, you're allowed five stories.

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We're going to ask for a 6th floor one floor in that area, and then when we get to the MU7, which is the majority of the site.

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It allows seven floors but you get two additional bonus floors if you meet two of the criteria and the two of the opposing are the mixed use project because we are two of the mixed use project and then that we provide the public parking component for the additional floors of square footage that we're adding and it's we're adding about 60,000 square feet of additional floor area and so that requires 211 additional parking spaces.

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Just a big picture, not to dwell too much on the number of parking by ordinance,

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and the residential requires 260 spaces.

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The retail will require 55 spaces for that 315.

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And if we add the 200 and one spaces on top of that, we're at 516 spaces required.

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There is a table in the deck that has all of it, so it's a busy little table, but it's got a lot of

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expecting you to go on with this. I'm just trying to give the high level. You're doing with

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lawyers here. We're not, we're not, we're not numbers. We're not numbers. Can't, we're like the

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detail.

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And on our proposal, so 516 are kind of a big picture of numbers to think about

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that we would need if we parked all of it 100% including the bonus floors. We're providing

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in 444 spaces right now.

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So we're a little bit short, 72-short space

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of short from what's required.

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Now, we're going to continue to still work out.

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We've got a few ideas, maybe where we

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can find some additional spaces.

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And I'm going to talk about other things

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that we're looking at, but in the big picture,

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we're only about 14% short of the target.

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And I know the planning board has discretion

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to wave up to 50% of the parking.

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We're not talking about anything like that.

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and we're going to continue to do the best we can to get as much parking as we can.

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And I would also say that in our proposal, we will always maintain the 200 and one public spaces.

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We want to have those spaces available to the public.

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And the way we're going to do this is we've hired obviously, as you know, when we come in for a big project like this,

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we will have the CIS and along with the preliminary site plan.

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And with the CIS, they'll be a traffic study.

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And Stonefield Engineering is doing their traffic study.

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They will also do a shared parking analysis.

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And they've already started looking at it.

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I see Brian raising his eyes.

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A shared parking analysis where they will evaluate

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different parking demands at different times

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for the different uses.

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And this is a common methodology used

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in mixed-used buildings especially, because as you can imagine, the residential components

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have different peak demands than the commercial components.

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For example, the residential components have a hundred percent peak demand overnight.

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However, during the day, their peak demand is only 50 percent.

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And these are statistical information that they'll show you, and you can imagine people are

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going to school, they're going to work, they're going to the job,

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going out and visiting, but at night, when they come home, and they go to sleep,

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their peak demand is 100%, but during the day it's only 50.

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And the retail is sort of at different times as well, because the retail

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peaks in the early afternoon, and then it still stays fairly busy

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until maybe the early evening, but after that, there's no retail parking

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And that is really needed.

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So Stonefield will do a very good analysis.

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And when they're here, when we're here with you

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for the CIS and a pre-oplication or the preliminary site

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plan, they will show you all the days of the week,

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all the times of the day, and what the requirements are.

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And on a preliminary analysis that they've already done for us,

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We are able to sufficiently park this site and maintain public parking and

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We think we will be able to meet the spirit of the ordinance and we we think you will agree when you see it

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And as I said we will continue to work on

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tweaking the plan in fact we've even hired a parking consultant rich and associates to help us

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refine the garage plans and the underground parking to just you know with their

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expertise to find nuances of you can get a few more spaces here. You can get another space here.

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We're going to look at maybe opportunities to do some more tandem spaces. We have very few tandem spaces where one's behind the other.

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In fact, almost all of our spaces are single loaded, which is the best way to do it.

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But it's not uncommon to have tandem spaces in mixed use buildings like this.

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Not to mention, there's the municipal parking around us. I mean, we have street parking around us across the street.

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there's 33 spots where Kroger is in the front that right away, right there, we know that there's the parking system of streets and then the garage across the P-body garage is not that far

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and now we have kind of a nice improved crosswalk at forests, you know.

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We've got a delay for us to make that crosswalk better. So we've got two crosswalk opportunities. We've got maple and woodward, and then we've got the forest and woodward crossing.

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Maybe if we want, we can go through the deck, and I could maybe talk about the drawings, and I'm going to use this pointer here. This is just the first page, and you could see this is just a massing model.

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We're looking at the way the building is masked and we're going to show you a few more examples.

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But we're looking at big retail store fronts, punch window openings and upper units.

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We've got the top two floors, have to step back each of the top floors, steps back 10 feet, which is required by ordinance.

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And we've got a very nice amenity space out on this two-story amenity space in the building.

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And you could appreciate that these larger, high-end apartment and condoled developments.

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The amenities spaces are really premium and they're important.

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And it's almost like hospitality.

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Like you go a very fine hotel.

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Or the lobbies are very dramatic.

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Great work out rooms, spa facilities, meeting areas, things like that.

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And then you could see that the building is sort of you shape

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what this extra link here. This is the MU5 portion. It's a little bit lower, and then there's

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an active courtyard in the middle of the building. There are a lot of units looking to,

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and then we've got a rooftop pool up on top of this. Sixth floor right there. And one of the

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things that we really thought about a lot is, if we know what words are busy street, it's busy all

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long, right? They and night. And so sound and sound proofing is going to be important in this building.

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And the interior courtyard is really an important space. We're going to have just as many units on the interior

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courtyard, if not more, on the interior courtyard, they'll look down to this unit, which will be a quieter space,

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and a more tranquil space for the residents as well. This bottom drawing just shows the site I think everybody

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was a site that's woodward and that's maple. And the sites about 67.

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We can skip this one at the table, that's Brian and I think it's on the

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site and more detail.

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This is the lowest level of parking, and you can see it's fully parked.

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We call that B2. It's 152 spaces. We've got speed ramp on the side.

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We do have to provide some underground storm detention, so there will be a

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down here that we'll be working on with our engineers for underground storm detention.

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The elevators and stairs all go down to all the levels through the whole building.

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Then the next slide is really what we call B1.

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That's the level just below the first floor.

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And there's 157 spaces there.

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Can I just interrupt you?

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00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:59,610
Yes.

224
00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:00,430
As long as there's interrupt.

225
00:18:01,110 --> 00:18:05,230
When these drawings say market rate parking, is that what you referred to as public?

226
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:10,890
Yeah, it's probably not the best terminology, but yes, I think we're in our mind we're saying this is the public.

227
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:11,770
Okay, thanks.

228
00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:14,890
Okay.

229
00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:17,490
The next slide is the first floor.

230
00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:22,630
This is, I think, an important slide, because a lot of thought has gone into, how do you approach the building?

231
00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:24,690
How do visitors come to the building?

232
00:18:24,690 --> 00:18:26,110
How do residents come to the building?

233
00:18:27,010 --> 00:18:33,590
So you can see obviously we've got woodward here, we've got maple here, and we have an alley over here, public alley.

234
00:18:34,330 --> 00:18:40,890
So, one of the opportunities is off of woodwork, which is a nice approach, regular,

235
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:44,970
that is both pedestrian and vehicular, and that's kind of like a big statement.

236
00:18:45,370 --> 00:18:50,330
That's an opportunity, right through the whole building, that brings you into the project

237
00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:51,230
and into the garage.

238
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:58,010
Additionally, we have another approach off of maple, that allows for two ways, and again,

239
00:18:58,150 --> 00:19:00,930
you can go into the speed ramps here or a park.

240
00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:07,090
And then a third approach is off of the alley and that people can come in this way as well.

241
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:09,410
So there's three ways to approach the building.

242
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:13,630
I think the big statement is right here on the front facade of the building.

243
00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:16,750
And that is kind of almost like a gateway entry.

244
00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:23,910
Our lobbies for the apartments and the condos are also maple and the elevators are there.

245
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:26,170
And then all the sort of supplementary spaces.

246
00:19:26,170 --> 00:19:30,250
mailworms, package rooms, things like that.

247
00:19:31,050 --> 00:19:35,210
And then we've got retail spaces here in the purple

248
00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:37,190
on the corner of Woodward.

249
00:19:37,690 --> 00:19:39,090
And then, for further down, Woodward,

250
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:40,730
we've got additional retail spaces.

251
00:19:41,310 --> 00:19:44,310
We've got some loading zones or loading docs here,

252
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:49,510
and we've got an elevator and stairs for loading

253
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:51,590
and deliveries as well.

254
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:54,390
That will take you all through the tower.

255
00:19:56,950 --> 00:20:02,510
And one thing that is going to be important is for us is the way we approach

256
00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:06,210
when residents come in or people come in and pick up people or drop people off.

257
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:10,730
This area on the first floor is really even though we're in the garage with a premium

258
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:16,370
space, we're living along make sure it's really beautifully detailed, special paving, nice

259
00:20:16,370 --> 00:20:22,870
finishes, good lighting, because that is somewhat the front door for people who come in

260
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:23,390
vehicle.

261
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,920
If we go to the next slide, this is that mezzanine level of parking, this is that

262
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:41,900
again, second level of parking that we'll use right in here, and then of course what you're

263
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:46,620
seeing is the tall storefront over here. I'm going to talk a little bit more about this mezzanine

264
00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:51,820
level of parking because there's an interesting element that we have to discuss in approach,

265
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:54,460
but we'll come back to that.

266
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:57,020
Now we're starting to get into the residential floor.

267
00:20:57,140 --> 00:21:00,960
So this is our second floor and you can see the building

268
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,480
or this sort of a new shape around it.

269
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,600
Isn't opening in here or there's some full occasion.

270
00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:12,720
This is a space that has the building amenities as well.

271
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,420
And part of the amenities, part of this is two stories,

272
00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:16,620
and part of this is one story.

273
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,020
And that's like, as I said, there'll be some meeting rooms,

274
00:21:20,020 --> 00:21:29,500
areas for some dining or private dining, there will be fitness areas, some spa areas, things

275
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:30,820
like that.

276
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:32,500
And then recreation areas.

277
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:37,640
And of course, this is our courtyard space that would be beautifully landscape, some

278
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,980
outdoor areas, fire pets, fountain, etc.

279
00:21:41,460 --> 00:21:45,280
And we'll be programming that and detailing it in more detail.

280
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,500
You'll notice that, one of the elements of our building is that we stepped the building

281
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:58,960
back 10 feet in the middle because it is a big long facade and we feel like, you know, from an urbanistic standpoint and architecturally it's nice to step the building back to give some relief.

282
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:13,440
If we go to the next slide, this is you're just seeing now additional floor space on the third level and this is that tube story in one of these days and that's going to be really dramatic from both outside and inside.

283
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,460
It'll be almost forward ceiling glass.

284
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:20,840
You're looking to the building and when you're in the building, you'll be looking out onto the excitement of what we're doing.

285
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,220
Levels four and five and six are pretty much the same.

286
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:29,860
They have a unit.

287
00:22:31,780 --> 00:22:39,200
And then when we get to the 7th level is where we get to this other rooftop committee, and you can see over here it says, M U 5 and M U 7.

288
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:46,500
The majority of this site, all of this is in the M U 7. And this, this one person is in the M U 5.

289
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:58,100
So this is the last floor. This six floor is the last floor in the M U 5. And then this is our outdoor roof deck where we'll have a pool. We'll have all the elements around the pool.

290
00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:11,860
We'll have some pergola, fire pits, and then they'll be access to bathrooms and showers and things like that as well for the pool, which is required by code when you have a pool.

291
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:26,600
And then if we go up again, we get to the next floor, and this is the first condominium floor, so it's level eight, and the condominiums have their own smaller amenity space.

292
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,520
So you can see these units are larger, and of course there's no units over here anymore.

293
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,240
And then when we get to the top floor, the 9th floor is the building steps back again.

294
00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:42,600
Another 10 feet and we get the 5th floor as well.

295
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:45,960
You get to the next level.

296
00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:47,760
This is our next drawing, I'm sorry.

297
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,860
This is just a schematic section of the building.

298
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:59,400
And this was in the street level and you can see there's two levels of underground parking and a gray and then you get that call

299
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:05,440
retail floor and then you get two floors of parking behind it and then you get the

300
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,820
many states that part of it's two stories part of one story then you get the residential units and a condo units

301
00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:18,880
on this side you're seeing residential units and then hold that up by the top and then

302
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,400
just moving on

303
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,660
This is, again, now, just, we're still obviously

304
00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:27,500
designing the building, but we're trying to emphasize

305
00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:32,460
the massing, the verticality, the apartments,

306
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,660
have punched openings.

307
00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:38,500
And our mind, this is from an urban standpoint,

308
00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:40,260
we feel like this should be a brick building.

309
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,360
The base maybe will have stone, but the body of it

310
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:45,000
will be brick.

311
00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:50,120
The top will be potentially brick, or maybe other materials

312
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,800
It could be a stuck on our panel detail and we get up to the condos, obviously the condos

313
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,240
have these beautiful terraces that wrap all the way around, so that's really dramatic.

314
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:07,180
We're thinking maybe we would have small Julia balconies for some of these units and

315
00:25:07,180 --> 00:25:14,280
the woodward and maple, and then there's another nuance to the site that on the maple

316
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,120
side is the right way is wider at the corner.

317
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:22,260
and then as you go further back to the east of building steps out or the property line

318
00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,740
steps out. So we're allowing the building a step out and it just sort of helps break

319
00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:32,080
that line over a bit and this is the entry to the apartments. And if we, you know, we have

320
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:37,680
the potential to have a restaurant in here and if we do, we would put the outdoor seating

321
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,300
or cap-based seating on that glide right of way on Maple. It just makes sense to utilize

322
00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:46,820
that space. It's city right away. It's never really going to get built on. You think

323
00:25:46,820 --> 00:25:52,040
Maybe conceptually a long time ago. There was thoughts that maybe maple will get widened.

324
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:59,820
I don't think that's going to be in the cards ever, but it is that excess property that is wide right away.

325
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:08,680
Just another element I should mention is right now this parking is diagonal parking.

326
00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:13,680
What we really want to do is we want to widen the sidewalks and put trees here and make it parallel parking.

327
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:21,300
And still have a drive so that people can fall in, but we want to make the sidewalk and

328
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:23,940
streetscape experience better and wider.

329
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:27,880
So instead of that diagonal parking that you, you know, there's a lot of property zones,

330
00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:29,240
but we don't have that.

331
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,360
Not necessarily the best.

332
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,080
At least parallel parking will be better.

333
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:37,420
If we just look at some of the other views, this is just kind of coming around the building.

334
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:38,760
Here you can see that big opening,

335
00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:43,750
that will be an important approach of special materials going

336
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:44,450
into that.

337
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:49,690
This is the L-E-U, and there'll be an entry to the garage here.

338
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:53,150
There'll be loading docs over here, and this is all retail.

339
00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:56,830
So the retail will be tall storefronts with nice urban canopies.

340
00:26:56,970 --> 00:27:02,870
And that corner expression that wraps around that maple for the amenity space.

341
00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:06,090
And here, this is a view of maple.

342
00:27:06,430 --> 00:27:09,990
If you were almost over the top of Crogory, this is what you'd be seeing.

343
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:15,070
This is that amount of space, retail storefronts, residential lobby,

344
00:27:16,370 --> 00:27:20,050
condominium lobby, and then here you're seeing the building as a step back,

345
00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:23,970
and then a step sound, and you're seeing that pool of rooftop area over here,

346
00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:26,910
which is a better and a little bit lower.

347
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:33,010
And this is kind of a bird's eye view looking down from the roof,

348
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:36,870
but it's important to see the courtyard and then this pool area.

349
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:48,550
And by the way, on the east side of that portion of the building, we are proposing residential units on the upper floors.

350
00:27:49,390 --> 00:27:57,310
We've actually set our building back 10 feet on the first floor and 15 feet on the upper floors.

351
00:27:57,310 --> 00:28:05,350
And we recognize that there's the potential for a future development, if somebody were to

352
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:08,390
want to purchase these buildings and propose a bigger building.

353
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:15,730
So we're being very careful about setting our building back so that we have a day light and open space.

354
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:22,150
And if somebody does purchase this building and takes it down and builds a larger, let's say another mixed

355
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:27,850
building for instance. They would set their building back 10 feet because they would have to

356
00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:34,890
put windows in it. And that's required by code. And so we'll have at least 25 feet between the

357
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:41,010
buildings. And good example of that is what we did at our age and our 370 ground project. We got this

358
00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:46,030
beautiful via and it was nicely landscaped and you've got windows on both sides. It could be a very

359
00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:51,970
nice space. So we're really trying to think ahead of these buildings are 400s of years. So

360
00:28:52,150 --> 00:28:57,880
what's going to happen as the city maturers and growths I think that may be the last

361
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:04,900
slide is that it yeah we normally allow 15 minutes for these so we're

362
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:08,940
we're not there so let me let me I have a couple of comments and then I'm

363
00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:17,440
an open to other members first of all rich is that consulting our people they're going to

364
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,680
do the parking structure I've known them for 40 years the terrific they did Birmingham

365
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:29,220
point, so that's a plus. I think the biggest problem you have is the shortage of parking spaces.

366
00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:38,520
You may know we just declined an opportunity to approve the building that was 49 short,

367
00:29:39,460 --> 00:29:47,420
roughly 50 short on Southwoodward. So I think you need to work on that a little bit,

368
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:58,300
Whether it's, and I realize economics plays into this, you know, one way to do is increase the size of some of the very small units to reduce the parking requirement.

369
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:25,240
On the other hand, I do like the component where you have public parking, which, of course, is, importantly, not exist in the triangle district. So we'll look at it. We don't have authority. You'd have to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals in any event, if you're short. So we could approve it, but I think it's, I'm not positive.

370
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:38,200
And we have a precedent here that we're dealing with for Victor that Birmingham Point had enough parking spaces on site, so that presents a challenge for us.

371
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:39,180
Those are my thoughts.

372
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:46,160
I'm not definitively concluded anything, but I think you need to work on the parking spaces, and I think you know that.

373
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:48,940
Others, Stewart, you want to start?

374
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,360
Yeah, I mean,

375
00:30:54,690 --> 00:31:20,050
I don't disagree about the parking thing, but I think there's a lot of if you look at it at a total package, I think there's a lot that you've done here that you didn't have to do here, that feeds in very, maybe better than other projects we've seen for this site into our master plan and things that are also important to us other than places for our four-wheel friends.

376
00:31:20,050 --> 00:31:28,430
So I did have one question, and just only because I'm curious, what would be a double-level

377
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:29,290
amenity?

378
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:35,490
It's a thick and climbing wall, or probably a fitness area, which will have big windows,

379
00:31:37,310 --> 00:31:44,550
and maybe part of the gathering space to really take in all of the views of Woodward and

380
00:31:44,550 --> 00:31:44,890
downtown.

381
00:31:45,570 --> 00:31:47,850
That's going to be a unique perspective up there.

382
00:31:47,850 --> 00:31:51,550
So it's just to make it more grand, that's right, that's right.

383
00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:52,470
That's right.

384
00:31:52,650 --> 00:31:54,930
Maybe we will do a kind of walk, it's another event.

385
00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:59,870
Well, as we've said before, this is the most important sight

386
00:31:59,870 --> 00:32:00,810
in Southeast Michigan.

387
00:32:02,190 --> 00:32:04,090
Green, why do you restrict it as that?

388
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:04,810
These are Michigan.

389
00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:08,610
The whole country, the whole country, the whole country,

390
00:32:08,830 --> 00:32:09,530
the whole country, the whole country, the whole country,

391
00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:10,270
the whole country, the whole country.

392
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:15,630
Another elephant in the room apart from parking,

393
00:32:15,630 --> 00:32:23,230
M. You're on, you know, Michigan one, they're going to have a say and what is going to happen

394
00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:29,670
along there have you had any discussion so far, or are you holding your that keeping that

395
00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:36,370
public right. We know we have to address M. Now obviously you're talking about that right

396
00:32:36,370 --> 00:32:44,170
of way. So right now they have more diagonal parking. We're not changing the approaches on

397
00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:50,190
they're under it, and we're not changing the island that separates woodward from the

398
00:32:50,190 --> 00:32:50,670
drive-out.

399
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:58,330
What we're talking about changing is taking those, those diagonal spaces and making them

400
00:32:58,330 --> 00:33:02,130
fewer and making them parallel, so they're not sticking out as much.

401
00:33:02,930 --> 00:33:06,570
And therefore, when they don't stick out as much, the extra space I'd like to put back in,

402
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:11,910
or we'd like to put back in, is make the sidewalks in front of the building wider and to

403
00:33:11,910 --> 00:33:17,690
some street trees in there as well to soften the building. We have a very large building and we want

404
00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:23,370
to treat it with the same care and beauty that our downtown has done right along the wood

405
00:33:23,370 --> 00:33:27,750
we're going to make. I mean we've got one of the prettiest downtowns and the most walkable downtowns

406
00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:37,150
as we all know. Second, quick point, smart. You know they've got bus stops on both sides,

407
00:33:37,150 --> 00:33:43,790
Maple and Woodward to just move one of them a couple of days ago, I think, you got to be

408
00:33:43,790 --> 00:33:44,670
of that in mind as well.

409
00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:45,550
Because that's an amount of time.

410
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:46,430
We haven't been thinking about that.

411
00:33:46,450 --> 00:33:48,690
It's an important facility for this.

412
00:33:48,850 --> 00:33:55,110
And we've got, we feel like we've got good room and a final part for those long enough,

413
00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:57,110
where you've got your cafe seating.

414
00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:04,310
It might have been correct, but that's exactly where Barclay in had their restaurant or coffee

415
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:04,650
place.

416
00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:06,050
I mean, how am I right?

417
00:34:06,810 --> 00:34:08,030
You're coming back.

418
00:34:08,150 --> 00:34:10,370
You can see that it was a botclian, you know?

419
00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:12,710
It like development, done, done, done, done.

420
00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:13,790
He's building, you know, anyway.

421
00:34:13,970 --> 00:34:14,690
You know, back.

422
00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:20,290
First, I really like the scale and the appearance of the rendering.

423
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:24,470
A couple of questions is the corner of what we're in maple.

424
00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:27,650
Those first three stories, which include the retail and the amenity.

425
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:28,890
Is that a glass?

426
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:30,110
Is that like a glass curtain?

427
00:34:30,390 --> 00:34:31,510
Is that?

428
00:34:32,830 --> 00:34:35,310
The retail space is almost 20 feet tall.

429
00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:45,310
Okay, you know, so it's almost all glass and then there's steel canopies, and then you see that second, so that's that first 20 feet, then you see the other two

430
00:34:49,170 --> 00:35:02,090
Yeah, that's the two stories of the amenities space that will wrap all the way around the corner, so it really sets up kind of an important element on the corner, and I think it helps differentiate the building is something special happening at the corner

431
00:35:02,090 --> 00:35:02,990
That's all glass

432
00:35:02,990 --> 00:35:03,630
That's all glass.

433
00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:04,350
And look nice.

434
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:11,730
Another question that 10-foot set back on the woodward side for the second floor units,

435
00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:13,790
one, two, three, four, like six units.

436
00:35:14,330 --> 00:35:15,630
All of these are set back, 10 feet.

437
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:18,090
No, no, I'm down in the second floor.

438
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:19,790
Right above all the entries.

439
00:35:20,250 --> 00:35:23,150
Is that a balcony or is that just a space?

440
00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:26,970
We haven't shown it as a balcony, but I actually thought about it and we haven't talked

441
00:35:26,970 --> 00:35:31,550
about it, but it isn't opportunity to create a terrace for those second floor units.

442
00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:34,150
We have a feature for those as at any point.

443
00:35:34,290 --> 00:35:36,550
We may be need to hire them as a salt descendant.

444
00:35:37,610 --> 00:35:39,890
You just added them to conflict of interest.

445
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:44,010
Don't get sad for sale, at least for the next two hours.

446
00:35:45,450 --> 00:35:46,390
I like it, and I like it a lot.

447
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:46,910
Thank you.

448
00:35:47,170 --> 00:35:47,190
Thank you.

449
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:51,110
So beautiful as always.

450
00:35:52,770 --> 00:36:01,530
Really thoughtful planning on the first floor, three ways in and out as great as we

451
00:36:01,530 --> 00:36:11,050
know how busy this is. The thought of having the drop-off lane internally as not to have that

452
00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:18,730
condition going on woodward or maple. Thank you. You know, it's thought obviously put

453
00:36:18,730 --> 00:36:26,150
in the packet drop-off and all those kind of things that caused congestion. So great. I really

454
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:30,530
look forward to seeing what you bring us about the parking, I mean, it makes perfect sense

455
00:36:30,530 --> 00:36:31,090
to me.

456
00:36:31,550 --> 00:36:37,190
And honestly, I don't think if it didn't work for you, you would want to build this building

457
00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:44,890
because I know you mentioned there is other parking sort of around, but I mean, it's not

458
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:50,130
really convenient to expect people from this building to walk from a crosswood ward.

459
00:36:50,650 --> 00:36:55,770
So, of course, you're going to have to make sure it works for you for your users, for your

460
00:36:57,370 --> 00:36:59,610
because it just wouldn't make sense otherwise.

461
00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:01,870
So I really look forward to those numbers.

462
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:04,070
The numbers do work for us right now.

463
00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:06,970
We're going to demonstrate it for you with the share partner analysis.

464
00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:08,650
I think that will be eye-opening.

465
00:37:09,930 --> 00:37:15,670
And I appreciate you proposing to sacrifice the diagonal parking on Woodward

466
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:18,070
to give us better streetscape.

467
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:21,770
And I know you're losing spots there by doing it,

468
00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:23,430
but it's such a benefit to us.

469
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:29,970
so, you know, thank you for that, and I would, I,

470
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:39,120
I love the smaller unit sizes. I mean, I don't know what that means for rent. But you probably don't

471
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,280
yet either, I suppose, but maybe they're working on the profile farm, as we know what rents

472
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:52,060
are generally in the market today. Fortunately, projects are expensive. This property is expensive.

473
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:56,560
But fortunately, the rents can support the project if it's all done right.

474
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:04,980
Well, my point in that is that we, we look for, we hope for some, some smaller units,

475
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:12,340
units that are the traditional professionals or, you know, smaller, we have too many

476
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:17,500
4,000 square foot condos that are only affordable to very few people.

477
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,600
So, so this is really great, and I would, I would not like to see them turn into a bunch of

478
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,720
2,000 square foot units to fix the parking.

479
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,020
So I hope we can work that all out and sort of keep what

480
00:38:33,020 --> 00:38:36,200
you proposed because I think it can be really great.

481
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,120
So thanks.

482
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,840
So like my colleagues, I like the massing.

483
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,700
I like the minimum assuming that the materials will be high quality

484
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:47,940
in the last one, P, G, P, all over effective.

485
00:38:49,220 --> 00:38:49,720
I don't know.

486
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,360
So what the challenges from the planning point of view

487
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:59,000
So the things I'm hoping you folks won't think about and address fall in for me and that

488
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,580
two categories.

489
00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:03,280
One is partying talk about parking at length.

490
00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:05,760
This is a surprise that that's an issue.

491
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,940
This is an area that's congested on all four sides.

492
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,880
So when you said, oh, even people can just go park in corner and walk across the street or

493
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,720
park in the park street, start from walk across the street.

494
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:21,420
I'm not sure how practical that is.

495
00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:21,940
I agree.

496
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,060
But again, I'm not prejudging, I'm just telling you that that's something that I'm sure

497
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:28,620
we're all going to be looking at very closely.

498
00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:35,600
In connection with parking, I'm going to be wanting to understand very clearly how many

499
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,640
times we count how many spaces.

500
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,460
So just by way of example, if and don't hold these aren't the right numbers, I understand

501
00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:46,080
that.

502
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:54,880
But if you need 200 public spaces and 200 residential spaces, it seems to me those are probably not the same 200 spaces that's right in my mind.

503
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:02,520
So, you know, it's segregating that and I don't think the drawing's quite do it yet, but again, this is conceptual.

504
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,460
In terms of access,

505
00:40:07,660 --> 00:40:13,980
one of the things that was an element of controversy between the planning board

506
00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:18,440
And the last developer to make a proposal here was left

507
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,640
term out of the maple side site.

508
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,380
Usually in those circumstances, we win, not always.

509
00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:33,260
But so be sensitive to that, be prepared to address that.

510
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:36,380
Let's turn out, turn out of the structure.

511
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:41,880
On to westbound maple, crossing, yes, I'm trapped.

512
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,700
And I know it's backed up there.

513
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:44,720
And that's a intersection.

514
00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:48,940
Yeah, that particular stretch is kind of backs up.

515
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,760
I forget what level of service that intersection is,

516
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,380
but that's an item of, okay, of some interest.

517
00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:56,980
Likewise,

518
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,440
the, not just the M.D.

519
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,440
question of parking and, you know, I agree,

520
00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:05,980
a parallel parking in woodward's better than the angled parking,

521
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,280
but what happens to the traffic flow

522
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:17,220
was people try and move in to the out of the right handling into the whatever you call

523
00:41:17,220 --> 00:41:23,960
that I'm not area that's you know not travel but where people go in part that that when

524
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:35,860
you change there you go yeah okay so when a building like this with its density and it's

525
00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:43,420
For cars, what impact is that going to have on the safety of traffic kind of pulling into that slip street?

526
00:41:44,060 --> 00:41:47,880
Okay, you know, I hope the traffic consultant will look at that.

527
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:55,700
One of the problems that I see throughout the Woodward landscape is the conflict between folks.

528
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:02,780
In this case coming out of the alley, wanting to turn on the Woodward folks coming up in this case north on the Woodward.

529
00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:11,840
We've been to the slip screen that kind of conflict, that's something to talk about, okay, and address.

530
00:42:12,980 --> 00:42:23,500
Likewise, one of the things that we did not resolve, and I'm, I hope, Abbey or environmental folks look at it in the CIS,

531
00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:33,100
This site had, if I recall correctly, in prior years, there were some hazardous materials that were on the site.

532
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:45,480
And I can't remember if it was a gas station or a bright cleaner or whatever, to the point where, again, by memory, a phase two was something that we had wanted to see.

533
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:56,420
So, have them as they do that, and look at that, see if there is, you know, if there is a phase two that's required to recommend it, okay, you know, how that will sort itself out.

534
00:42:56,860 --> 00:43:14,580
But in general, it's a given economics, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, you know, it's a nice solution to a difficult site. The last comment is that when you, the,

535
00:43:15,780 --> 00:43:22,620
The question of, or I refer to as counting spaces for different purposes, that impacts whether

536
00:43:22,620 --> 00:43:26,700
you meet the parking, the public parking requirement for the bonus stories.

537
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,940
So keep that's, but it's both a, do you meet the ordinance in terms of the number of spaces

538
00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:37,900
as well as are you qualified for two more spaces, two more stories?

539
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,560
And that's why we've said we're always going to try to maintain 200 public spaces for

540
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,440
for the public, for those bonus floors.

541
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,440
So the shortfall, I guess, is on the required parking a little bit, right?

542
00:43:53,060 --> 00:43:53,160
Yeah.

543
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,140
That's the way, maybe, that we were looking at it.

544
00:43:56,660 --> 00:43:59,660
And that's why we wanted to demonstrate that with the shared parking,

545
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,580
there is sufficient parking for this project.

546
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,360
Obviously, they would never tackle a project of this size and magnitude

547
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,220
without that confidence that there is plenty of parking.

548
00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:15,400
and a noteworthy public part of the component that people can use.

549
00:44:15,860 --> 00:44:20,700
Well, I mean, just, you know, so it's kind of clear where we have to come from.

550
00:44:21,020 --> 00:44:29,880
It's not uncommon for a developer to say your ordinance is somewhat out of date.

551
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,080
And because of this, that, of the other thing, it really shouldn't be 100 parking spaces required.

552
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:44,560
It could only be 75 that's, and we the developer would never, you know, under a part of the building.

553
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:45,920
All that's well and good.

554
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:54,400
I have no doubt for about that, but we are constrained by what the ordnance says, not by what the ordnance would say if it was smarter.

555
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:56,140
I agree.

556
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,160
I would never say our ordnance is outdated.

557
00:44:59,020 --> 00:44:59,980
But I...

558
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:10,340
And again, when we lay this all out in the big picture of the people, take your comments and we'll address all of these items.

559
00:45:10,340 --> 00:45:17,680
to see? Nothing much to add, just to reiterate, very happy to see e folks involved in this

560
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:23,940
given the importance, the utmost importance of the site to the city and the visibility.

561
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,200
Thank you. If I can, I do want to mention two other things that I didn't say.

562
00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:37,360
Well, first of all, Nick, you can quickly come along. I'm under the impression that the planning board

563
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:46,700
actually can leave the up to 50% of the required parking by ordinance if we demonstrate that

564
00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:52,860
we meet certain findings and that we have sufficient parking and they feel comfortable

565
00:45:52,860 --> 00:45:56,720
that it's not a board of appeals action, it's a planning board, it has the authority.

566
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:57,560
That's right.

567
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,520
Now, I was going to actually say before we ended that in contrast, I think our Lawrence was

568
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,680
actually ahead of the curve and ahead of its time.

569
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,700
And adding things like that, obviously we've never used it because the development has been really slow in the triangle.

570
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:20,180
A comparable sort of reduction that Victor is mentioning is the B3 stuff that we just did at 479.

571
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:26,680
The mixed use reductions. It's the same concept for the same spirit and intent where you do have the power to reduce up to 50%.

572
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,700
Should you want to? Victor has said that they're not going to ask for 50%.

573
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:35,740
percent? No. That's just a tool and the toolbox that you could use. Should you find their

574
00:46:35,740 --> 00:46:41,340
arguments? Yeah. Any additional comments you have? Can I mention two more things?

575
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:47,340
One more thing. There is another nuance to this that I should mention. Remember we talked

576
00:46:47,340 --> 00:46:52,180
about that? Mezzanine of parking in the back behind the retail. There's an extra floor

577
00:46:52,180 --> 00:46:59,420
parking in the two-storey space. In the tall retail space we got two levels of parking.

578
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,640
By definition, this is a nuance of the building code versus the zoning ordinance.

579
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:10,240
By definition of the building code, they may classify that extra level of parking as a

580
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:12,300
floor, not a misamy.

581
00:47:13,620 --> 00:47:19,980
And if it's classified as a floor, we will need a variance from the board of zoning appeals.

582
00:47:21,180 --> 00:47:24,700
Visually, we're within all the building heights, in fact, we're even the tallest part

583
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:25,680
is under the building height.

584
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,820
If you look at the building, it's a nice story building.

585
00:47:27,820 --> 00:47:31,680
This is like almost a hidden floor behind the storefront.

586
00:47:31,740 --> 00:47:32,340
We understand.

587
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,500
So it's just something that's a nuance that we won't have jurisdiction on that.

588
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:37,920
It's good.

589
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:38,500
No, you won't.

590
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:43,320
But maybe if you're, if you like it, well, they always want to hear what we think.

591
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,020
Thank you.

592
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:45,560
Okay.

593
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:52,340
And then the last thing is, we probably will pursue just to be totally transparent.

594
00:47:52,340 --> 00:48:00,060
We probably will pursue an economic development license for a liquor license if we do have a restaurant

595
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:02,800
This certainly will qualify and it would be a city commission

596
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,400
You got to size no question about that. Yeah, that's it. Thank you very much

597
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,920
And we really look forward to working with you. This is a really exciting project for us

598
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,580
He's saving project for the city. Yeah, for the seat

599
00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:18,940
for the whole state of Michigan.

600
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,020
Okay, and thank you.

601
00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:22,920
That just southeast.

602
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,000
Sorry, it took so much time.

603
00:48:24,180 --> 00:48:24,700
Thank you very much.

604
00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:25,200
Great work, guys.

605
00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:25,700
Thank you.

606
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,120
Okay.

607
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:30,260
We're going to move along.

608
00:48:31,740 --> 00:48:34,580
And now we go back to item key one.

609
00:48:35,980 --> 00:48:39,160
The zoning ordinance update project.

610
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,060
Consultant selection, and this is not a final selection.

611
00:48:44,060 --> 00:48:53,740
And so I would point out to the public who may be listening that the retention of a consultant

612
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:58,920
which has been authorized by the City Commission, ultimately the City Commission will

613
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:05,200
make the decision as to which consultants will be hired.

614
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,160
And so our role here is to make a recommendation.

615
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:17,840
Let me go back and just highlight briefly that originally we sent out RFPs.

616
00:49:18,860 --> 00:49:33,160
We obtained a couple of months ago six proposals in the meeting in October, I think,

617
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,400
We interviewed six proposals.

618
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:44,380
We then requested interviews in November of four entities.

619
00:49:45,140 --> 00:49:51,240
I'll say all of the being, Kendra Keyes, Giffles, Webster, and McKenna.

620
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,840
We interviewed all four entities at our November meeting.

621
00:49:56,980 --> 00:50:03,100
We agreed as a playboard that we would review not only the original submissions

622
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:30,180
but the results of the interviews and come back in December with the hope and I would say in my case expectation that we would recommend a single entity for approval by the City Commission that whatever meeting they choose to consider it.

623
00:50:30,180 --> 00:50:34,780
And then I have asked, and we didn't discuss it the last,

624
00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:35,860
necessarily, the last meeting.

625
00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:41,200
I want to make a comment on the fact that we received six proposals.

626
00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:46,600
And I think, frankly, all of them were very good.

627
00:50:49,780 --> 00:50:55,000
And this has been a difficult process for all of us

628
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,300
to consider these.

629
00:50:56,300 --> 00:51:04,480
But I want to flip that the other way to say that I think is a compliment to the city and the

630
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:12,200
city planning department that we have this many really terrific proposals coming in because

631
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,560
these people would not choose to work in Birmingham unless they felt that the people we have in place

632
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:28,340
at all are qualified and competent to be able to guide the city through this process with them.

633
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,840
So I think it's a compliment to the city and to the city staff that we have this many.

634
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,960
What I do outstanding proposals.

635
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:47,360
I've asked Nick, because you all know and we reviewed this that the proposals were reviewed by a number of people within city administration.

636
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:56,730
And I think it's appropriate before we start finally discussing this that we get the input of the city administration because to date we have not

637
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:07,380
Yes, so what say you Mr. DuPoy? Sure. Thanks. I may have this city. Thanks for your kind words as well. It's much appreciated and so we did take it seriously

638
00:52:07,380 --> 00:52:13,580
We considered a directed that you wanted us to come today with the recommendation from city staff

639
00:52:13,580 --> 00:52:27,240
So just to reiterate, the entire planning department reviewed it, three members of the building department and the entire city manager's office, all reviewed everything we've got from the proposals to the interviews.

640
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,980
We then congregated about this.

641
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:43,300
We scored him, evaluated him as just as you did for the RFPs. And then we also congregated last Wednesday to talk about how the interviews went, go over the RFPs, both considerations.

642
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:54,020
And what we came up with was, and I want to preface this very specifically because we felt exactly the same way you felt. And what a good fortune we have to have such a hard decision.

643
00:52:54,020 --> 00:53:05,960
We felt as though the consensus was that two rows to the top in the interview stage combined with their RFP responses, and ultimately it came down to details.

644
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:13,480
And when it came to the details, we felt as though how Zia Levine would be best suited for this project.

645
00:53:14,660 --> 00:53:21,820
A number of comments were made, and they feel it could be a really good synergy between the project team and our team.

646
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:32,060
They're high quality graphical approach, and they're really interesting, I guess, a unique analysis style using the GIS components.

647
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:39,440
They're attention to detail when it comes to their RFP, but also their presentation and how they tailored those types of things.

648
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:48,680
And a number of other things, what's also important because frankly, the second one was that was very highly rated, was kind of kissed.

649
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:58,860
And a lot of their draw, not that they would not do a good job with the ordinance, but their uncle plus platform is a huge draw.

650
00:53:59,180 --> 00:54:01,480
It's a really good, great program we've got it already.

651
00:54:04,660 --> 00:54:09,460
So, what's important to know and what we discussed in our internal meetings is that, yes we have it already,

652
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:11,240
So we've kind of got that piece.

653
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,460
Again, not that they would do a bad job or not just a good of a job.

654
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:19,640
But to get the highest and best form of on-code plus platform,

655
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,040
it would still be an upcharge from what they propose in their

656
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:24,700
cost proposal.

657
00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:29,080
And what how do you live inside of the interviews is,

658
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,320
what they'll deliver, whatever we want, and whatever

659
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:33,020
format we want.

660
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,580
So what I did then, because cost is a consideration here

661
00:54:36,580 --> 00:54:39,300
that I admitted we didn't really factor into the

662
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:45,360
fee process, the cost to upload the on code. So all we really do with on code is we play

663
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:51,520
an annual license fee of about $4,000. That's a maintenance type fee, a license type fee.

664
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:58,560
And then we pay on occasion to update the ordinance here and there. We pay as low as $44 to

665
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:09,280
amend ordinance and as high as almost 2000. You can figure that that 2000 figure was when we

666
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,900
All that to say, very inexpensive.

667
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,840
It's something we may be able to absorb now,

668
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,340
even though we haven't really budgeted for it,

669
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:19,900
on which we do plan to, but.

670
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:27,630
So that alongside of the Uncle Plus higher level platforms,

671
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:30,330
which we can still have access to,

672
00:55:30,550 --> 00:55:32,230
even if we don't go with Kendick East,

673
00:55:32,910 --> 00:55:34,050
we felt like we could have our cake

674
00:55:34,050 --> 00:55:36,070
needed to, and maybe have the best of both worlds.

675
00:55:36,910 --> 00:55:39,250
So for those reasons, oh, I'm also, by the way,

676
00:55:39,250 --> 00:55:44,950
We also love that house you live in, there's moping the sign ordered it's in there that's in dire need of updates

677
00:55:45,850 --> 00:55:50,250
So for all those reasons that's what we chose it was difficult. We just spent about an hour in there

678
00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:56,970
Talking about all of these, but ultimately that's what we chose. Okay. Thank you. So I'm going to pick a random

679
00:55:57,970 --> 00:55:58,770
comments from

680
00:55:58,770 --> 00:56:03,030
Plain board members. I'm going to start with Dan's share. He's probably not ready

681
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:14,900
I tend to agree with Nick in that, for me, when I look at the whole ball of wax, there were

682
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:22,080
two firms that were superior to the others, between mentioned, Kennedy, Keyston, House

683
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:22,600
the Alibine.

684
00:56:23,140 --> 00:56:29,840
I thought that McKenna and Giffles' Webster were good would do a good job, but they weren't

685
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:39,520
quite as thorough or inspirational as I thought the candidate in the OCO were, and I come

686
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:44,540
at this also from the point of view of what we're trying to accomplish.

687
00:56:46,060 --> 00:56:51,120
Keep in mind, we're trying to align his own importance with the new master plan.

688
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:58,500
We're not writing on a clean slate, we're not tearing everything up, we're not, you know,

689
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:03,520
of just making stuff up was we go along and say, oh, here's a good idea, let's throw it in.

690
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:09,360
I mean, this is, you know, an alignment of some stuff that we've already not some stuff.

691
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:19,140
A very detailed master plan that we spent literally years working on that had large amounts of community engagement.

692
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:25,620
So the community's familiar with what we've done, what the city's done with the master plan,

693
00:57:25,620 --> 00:57:30,720
And should have a pretty good idea of what alignment would look like.

694
00:57:31,820 --> 00:57:38,940
You know, that said, there are some interesting and creative concepts in the Master Plan.

695
00:57:39,420 --> 00:57:50,620
And I think we, as a city, would benefit from national best practices, assistance in adapting this only ordinance to,

696
00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:53,760
or aligning this own ordinance with the Master Plan.

697
00:57:56,340 --> 00:58:01,220
It's a close call for me between Kennedy, Keystone, House of the Elevines.

698
00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:07,560
I guess I felt the end of the day a little bit more comfortable with House of the Elevines.

699
00:58:08,100 --> 00:58:12,220
And I thought that's where I, my recommendation, would land.

700
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,760
I agree with you on the choice of House of the Elevines.

701
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,420
A couple of points I had was a conforms to the budget.

702
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,680
I'd like their emphasis on creative community engagement.

703
00:58:31,380 --> 00:58:35,420
Presentation, a couple of weeks ago was packed with information examples.

704
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,680
A very detailed scope, clear in the mission in most eloquent.

705
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,720
They set it a plethora of examples and awards and credentials.

706
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:53,420
and include design standards, I like them the best, you know?

707
00:58:55,410 --> 00:59:02,070
So I liked Ken and Keith very much, and I like McKenna as well.

708
00:59:03,050 --> 00:59:06,670
It's interesting how different perspectives there are.

709
00:59:07,370 --> 00:59:14,910
When we had the interviews, I was especially impressed with Ken and Keith's approach.

710
00:59:14,910 --> 00:59:22,210
They did not come in and reiterate their resume.

711
00:59:24,350 --> 00:59:33,650
They didn't talk about all their awards that they listed when they sent in their qualifications.

712
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:37,910
But what they did talk about was what they could do for us specifically.

713
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:45,330
and they provided this packet with a bunch of information to take home, to read that, again,

714
00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:49,050
talked about what they would do for Birmingham.

715
00:59:51,490 --> 00:59:57,450
They had, very impressive,

716
00:59:59,970 --> 00:59:59,970
other-

717
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:14,300
Other projects that they highlighted that they sent to us that we could go, we could look at, and we could work through the ordinances that they had previously written, whereas I didn't feel like housing offered us that the same way.

718
01:00:15,460 --> 01:00:18,760
When I went to look at housing,

719
01:00:21,100 --> 01:00:25,080
many other projects, and there were lots of them.

720
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:37,440
I struggled to find very good examples that were similar to our city that did a very good presentation as kind of did in theirs.

721
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,920
And I'll say from a canna as well,

722
01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:45,780
there, and why I like to them, second best,

723
01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:51,780
is their written work, their presentation

724
01:00:51,780 --> 01:00:54,400
of ordinances that they have done,

725
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,100
or so easy to work with.

726
01:00:57,740 --> 01:01:01,040
And I really think that's going to be very,

727
01:01:01,260 --> 01:01:02,120
that's so important.

728
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,660
When you crack one of these ordinances,

729
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,180
you're looking for something in particular,

730
01:01:06,180 --> 01:01:15,640
It needs to make sense and kind of does it for sure, and McKenna does it well also.

731
01:01:17,780 --> 01:01:18,380
I,

732
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:26,910
like Dan said, they're not reinventing anything.

733
01:01:27,210 --> 01:01:30,250
They're not doing what we did for the master plan rather.

734
01:01:30,830 --> 01:01:39,580
They're bringing all of this together and looking at the master plan and using the master plan

735
01:01:39,580 --> 01:01:43,200
to put our ordinance in order.

736
01:01:45,140 --> 01:01:50,260
So when I looked at the detail that kind of gave us,

737
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,080
I was just really, really impressed.

738
01:01:52,940 --> 01:01:56,880
And even little things like,

739
01:01:58,220 --> 01:02:01,180
it's funny, I came back to my notes late last week

740
01:02:01,180 --> 01:02:02,600
and preparation for this meeting.

741
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,480
And I pulled out all the papers and all the information

742
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,760
that was given to us on the night of the interviews.

743
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:15,420
And what I found was what I think was either three or four packets of information.

744
01:02:15,980 --> 01:02:25,360
Candigs and McKenna's were labeled with their letterhead on every page they gave us.

745
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,600
And then I had a whole bunch of other information from I'm not sure which one.

746
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:35,720
Where they neglected to put their name on the information they gave us at the presentation.

747
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:40,740
And I found that funny because that's the kind of detail we need when we're putting together,

748
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,380
when they're putting together the ordinance for us.

749
01:02:43,540 --> 01:02:47,180
But yet, it was omitted on something as simple as that.

750
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,860
And kind of get my kind of hit the nail on the head for me.

751
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:54,940
Kind of first.

752
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:55,680
What kind of second?

753
01:02:59,350 --> 01:02:59,790
The scene?

754
01:03:00,530 --> 01:03:00,750
Yeah.

755
01:03:01,250 --> 01:03:06,330
I was surprised at how much of an impact the interviews had on me personally,

756
01:03:06,330 --> 01:03:11,350
just in terms of how it sort of reconfigured my preference is going in.

757
01:03:12,430 --> 01:03:16,510
Maybe I shouldn't have been as someone who does writing and then speaking for work,

758
01:03:17,130 --> 01:03:18,930
that, you know, that second part is really important.

759
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:26,270
And so for me, my top two were House Yola Bean and Kennedy Keyes in that order.

760
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:31,370
I was really impressed, I think, with House Yola, the team that they brought,

761
01:03:31,370 --> 01:03:40,010
and the creativity, I thought their answers were, especially impressive, at least to me,

762
01:03:40,090 --> 01:03:44,810
they did not seem canned and it was not to disparage anyone else, but it was, I think,

763
01:03:44,970 --> 01:03:50,110
a lot of thought had gone into a lot of those elements where some, you know, some of

764
01:03:50,110 --> 01:03:53,790
the other folks, you know, the, I probably could have guessed how they were going to answer the

765
01:03:53,790 --> 01:04:01,110
question and then it wasn't super satisfying. It was maybe a little bit surface level, but

766
01:04:01,110 --> 01:04:08,090
Those two, for me, far and away, they were, my preferred choices.

767
01:04:08,710 --> 01:04:15,750
And then in terms of picking between the two, obviously, the group thought, but I think staff,

768
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:21,610
their input cannot be underestimated, because they're going to do so much of the heavy lifting.

769
01:04:22,610 --> 01:04:23,210
Stuart,

770
01:04:27,380 --> 01:04:32,260
I agree with the point made earlier that this isn't a completely, complete rewrite.

771
01:04:32,260 --> 01:04:36,280
This isn't like a wonderful work of fiction or anything like that.

772
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:46,600
There's a lot of mechanics in this and not totally, but there's a work.

773
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:53,140
And I guess to me if we always talk about his Dale, Illinois,

774
01:04:53,340 --> 01:04:55,400
and the fact that one of these firms is actually

775
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,020
located there, I thought it was kind of ironic.

776
01:04:58,020 --> 01:05:06,160
But I guess the thing that pushes me one direction is the fact that the guy that they're going to have to work with the department,

777
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,760
they're going to have to work with the administration, they're going to have to work with.

778
01:05:10,060 --> 01:05:14,500
He's kind of leaning that way, and that we already maybe have some of the framework that it work well.

779
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,780
So I guess I'm leaning towards how to deal.

780
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,400
Okay, I guess we got Robin to go.

781
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:26,360
Yeah, well, I think you've all said some really important things.

782
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:32,180
I did a bit of a deeper dive because there was so some question about delivery.

783
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:38,240
What will they deliver to us and what will they be sitting here looking at at the end of

784
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:38,940
this process?

785
01:05:39,220 --> 01:05:44,600
When you get through the gun chart, what do we have and what do we expect to see?

786
01:05:45,020 --> 01:05:51,340
And I went to each of them in turn and I was really incredibly impressed if you remember.

787
01:05:51,340 --> 01:06:00,760
I think it was Giffles, Kim and Jill said we're going to do Zoning 101 and it in H.K. the public.

788
01:06:02,220 --> 01:06:07,980
I wasn't looking for that, but what I did find in House of Levine was at the very end.

789
01:06:08,300 --> 01:06:15,540
They're going to do us like a storybook. They are suggesting that they will put together a sort of what's the word they use.

790
01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:28,640
It's a story map, and I'm sorry, a story map about how they got to their conclusion, and they would give this to all participants, put it on the website,

791
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:39,300
explain the speeches that were taken to reach the final document that we would then take to the recommend to the commission to adopt.

792
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:45,340
I thought that was pretty interesting, because I thought it keeps the engagement process

793
01:06:45,780 --> 01:06:51,660
not just at the beginning, but through the process and up until the very end.

794
01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:53,860
So that was one thing that I really liked.

795
01:06:54,540 --> 01:07:01,760
I was very impressed by their conversations, how's the Levine's conversation and writing

796
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:09,760
about GIS because that is the basis. That's platform a bit on which all of our work is now

797
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:16,960
done, all of it. And if it doesn't fit to that, then things are tricky. And I think the

798
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:24,590
persuaded me that they would work with the staff and with other takes in the city to make sure

799
01:07:24,590 --> 01:07:29,970
their production fits with the platforms that we've got here and I think that's

800
01:07:30,210 --> 01:07:44,890
Twerbly, tarbly important. I know it's not what we want to have driving this process, but like, you know, driving developments like that were on the basis of parking, just not the most important thing, but it's very important.

801
01:07:45,410 --> 01:07:54,930
Seusame a GIS. It is unbelievably important as to what we do and how we see it and how we collect our data, and it's only going to continue.

802
01:07:57,950 --> 01:08:04,190
Ddim musfair o brith yw i ddim hyn o bryr i'r gwodu'r cylm o'n fy'r hyn o'n yw hiadio'l gwis o'r hyn o'r'r o'rfeniw.

803
01:08:07,290 --> 01:08:08,510
Ddim hyn yw am Rhylnydd.

804
01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:10,470
Confirgod,ower chydydd, wryger Mae hollb Roswa.

805
01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:13,390
Y ddymdymboro,au dofia ddim.

806
01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:16,830
Wraithney.

807
01:08:17,630 --> 01:08:18,070
Lwyddwyfyd.

808
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:18,730
Wellay, bod from zryd拉, mae'r!

809
01:08:18,730 --> 01:08:21,430
Mynedae, a nad f�oldd Sidness东, I mydule.

810
01:08:21,750 --> 01:08:23,310
Dwi'n cyfíreh mymd buriarchutedd bydd мы gadamente.

811
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:30,630
Chodrhead o ei, oedd bet yverdd.

812
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:32,350
I ffad yw'n yw am'r gweld ydhyd ydym nhw nifer.

813
01:08:32,350 --> 01:08:36,770
On, yded rhan yw'n cod yn ôreth.

814
01:08:36,770 --> 01:08:38,410
Fyl am y'n i ddo'r beth.

815
01:08:38,410 --> 01:08:40,530
P tiny o'r rhan ys ffodol.

816
01:08:41,210 --> 01:08:41,730
Rwyfin yr roedd o'r r弁raeth.

817
01:08:42,270 --> 01:08:44,870
Felly o'r bitbonyw y o'r yddo'r rodw o'r rodw, o'r rhan.

818
01:08:45,530 --> 01:08:48,510
No, wrth ydym yn byl am hewn cthel yn y trwyfod yn defiw yw'r.

819
01:08:48,510 --> 01:08:50,550
Eed o'r rhan.

820
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:57,790
Dy inverl mae'n gwas yn heid a iln gerwl dddraff y스�wf bod yn yn yr famsyfddraff

821
01:08:57,790 --> 01:09:08,090
ar pyda'r yання. gwas yn hun yn方i chi'n o devodd ydym when â der Eel E queddim,

822
01:09:08,090 --> 01:09:10,690
G Sixtydu christdy?

823
01:09:11,970 --> 01:09:14,510
D concret dod am弟r,ind fowedChildry.

824
01:09:14,570 --> 01:09:18,450
Ond coff rog fffr competency, 있�der un chwyr第nych i'n cyfleŴn.

825
01:09:21,290 --> 01:09:22,850
Vadind yst anodungame Schwed Cheer yda un nos,

826
01:09:22,850 --> 01:09:24,070
Rach-2と elétronus i geven teig?

827
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:27,730
Mae dechyrid o gyferos gyfliferu me llevarakotraetraetraetraetraetraetraetraetrae

828
01:09:27,730 --> 01:09:31,150
Wyd cyn o ymthусeli'n cynyn i'r i'r ddyn ni'n hynny?

829
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:41,010
Mae'n na â bwyd yn ydwdieth yn ymthusel, yn range eich ywydd yn нyn ni'n

830
01:09:41,010 --> 01:09:41,810
drwy hoprm o hynny yn de yn o ymthusel?

831
01:09:41,810 --> 01:09:44,690
Ac m�ie cymdys mwybion yn gallwneud gyda unon

832
01:09:44,690 --> 01:09:45,330
a'r wastig iawn.

833
01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:49,650
Д wynsguiddag, bydd y oedd yn ylwneud rheumd i Youtube bob wneud y nerf yn ym'r

834
01:09:49,650 --> 01:09:50,870
ddyn nhw nhw.

835
01:09:52,250 --> 01:09:57,310
An mynd yn ydyl am ydyl ei mwybion yn yr'r amdiol based o'r amdiol ydynnyw i'r amdiol

836
01:09:57,310 --> 01:09:59,190
a'r amdiol amdiol ydyl y mae'n bydd yda yn myndw i'r amdiol y amdiol

837
01:09:59,190 --> 01:10:01,050
i'r amdiol yleon ar ymr yda yw ydyl ei amdiol

838
01:10:01,050 --> 01:10:08,390
a myndw i'r amdiol yw ydyl ynydyl all i'r anig yma,

839
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:10,850
Dys o ddaedd sydd betweith y swywtio'r gallu fod yn y dayn o'r galer ddawn o gwarf gynewn mae'r ydyfyd i chi'n

840
01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:20,890
amraen ddyfyd, a ymfd, amrwawn, yda'r gallu si'r amraen弟, boedan, i gwirr yna ynd yma hynau ddi anblod i ddoedd sydd

841
01:10:20,890 --> 01:10:25,410
hyn un nhw dda bod yma'rol ywyr yma, boedan, ddi eich a amraen i ddawn o ddawn i hodau sa gofad o ddym yna'r gallu.

842
01:10:25,410 --> 01:10:27,730
i y yw'r i'w hynny ffrysu.

843
01:10:28,910 --> 01:10:29,510
O, o'n dill.

844
01:10:30,610 --> 01:10:32,250
Ond ydy'r yw mynd gweithol i'r gweithol.

845
01:10:32,850 --> 01:10:33,910
O'r chael.

846
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:35,730
Dill ein yr yw hynny rweithol i fod yn yw mynd,

847
01:10:36,010 --> 01:10:37,810
yn yw roedddau, uhr.

848
01:10:38,810 --> 01:10:39,830
O'r rwrd â'r llwydd, fy yw dydd.

849
01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:41,010
Swy yw rydd, yw roedd.

850
01:10:41,090 --> 01:10:43,270
O'r yw hynny rwy, y ydir, yd ni'r cym, o'r rwyth.

851
01:10:43,550 --> 01:10:45,230
O'r rwyth, no.

852
01:10:46,010 --> 01:10:52,730
O'r rwyth, o i'r rwyth.

853
01:10:54,650 --> 01:10:55,310
O'r rwyth.

854
01:10:55,310 --> 01:11:00,590
dduwfys, y a'wng o'r gweithon. Std, 2yr h i y tu gwilwydd, y Finneid a'r hlwl.

855
01:11:01,290 --> 01:11:06,730
Nos, o'r gaithonwr, o'r gweithonwr, o'r wr, o'r gweithonwr, o'r gweithonwr, y fy niend synnu'r gyda,

856
01:11:08,510 --> 01:11:09,490
yfwr, yw o'rgynd yw'r dduwfys, yw a'r deemthai, o'r ywr gweithonwr, y fydd o'rewl.

857
01:11:09,610 --> 01:11:20,070
Ond i fyddion yn'r dduwfysu. Dddddych a'r dduwfr, ych yn gyms eichu, ych yn ychegd ein,

858
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:23,650
Sna'n fellowng wrth gwneud yn de i'n womwl mae'n pflotdyn nhw'n ymth웅n, fell mae'n gwneud yna hynna hynd.

859
01:11:23,650 --> 01:11:35,330
Yn yn nhw'n fwyr yn pflotdyn ymthu'n cydrwriaeth twy un bod eich gatwy, ar yw'n hynna'n

860
01:11:35,330 --> 01:11:36,070
thru niwr gwneud gynnworth.

861
01:11:37,090 --> 01:11:42,130
Annywchau yn ddim yw hyntywr, ddim'r ffrwriaeth leid yn yna'na ffrw 1a chod,

862
01:11:42,130 --> 01:11:43,930
Moetol chodau, bryd dwi'n mflesgu.

863
01:11:44,570 --> 01:11:47,290
Am ni'n ffrwr, misfifwyn ymthu'n ynu laid nwydd.

864
01:12:19,810 --> 01:12:20,050
neu, a e yn ni fydd B

865
01:12:47,010 --> 01:12:50,010
Mae'r defyryd

866
01:12:50,010 --> 01:13:02,850
di死oda yn rhoi pferdy Narkwana atnyd bod yn cael a ddim atng 열심히 r Boston Maenry sinu'l

867
01:13:20,030 --> 01:13:21,430
D

868
01:13:21,450 --> 01:13:23,910
o fydd, puflinod yn yn chael'w hynnych無,

869
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:27,230
ar y hyn noble ei o fydd o fy aun llad ialledr,

870
01:13:29,950 --> 01:13:32,270
a condol ryd eu aun o wy Dieselcon i business,

871
01:13:32,270 --> 01:13:44,050
yn y dywch o'r gwneudau, yn y ddim facku aryd o gyfer ymknydd ymmerchyn ayrthyn ymknydd ayrthyn y

872
01:13:44,050 --> 01:13:50,990
un ynedd rydym yn atstdynnaeth o'r ryddyl iawn ac y gwyfl, rhai ymffdwl ayrthyn gonaethau,

873
01:13:51,650 --> 01:14:02,250
amthomew'r gwneud y fforddad ymwydd yn ddymnydd ayrthyn gwydthyn, ayrthyn yw drwyfda

874
01:14:04,030 --> 01:14:08,070
pda hynnas yn öwynddor hynna'ill yn dla'ydpf

875
01:14:08,070 --> 01:14:10,410
Dyka'u mynd efryl sydd yn bod neth'ch yn o'r yn ôn i'r dlwy

876
01:14:10,410 --> 01:14:14,530
ddwy new o'r ddwy n yr ywydwchcilu, fingers o fnw'世?

877
01:14:16,010 --> 01:14:18,790
dwy奴iddulously ziwty, o gw i llwynch'u y byr

878
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:19,590
ynnod cairau🤩

879
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:19,890
Stead mwythllau.

880
01:14:19,890 --> 01:14:22,630
Fyyrdbeil Grndd i cael byd y gallan o se'w

881
01:14:23,470 --> 01:14:25,310
Da' gwydwichude deen �ed Fyyrd yn d Andyint

882
01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:28,910
Westman도 djad whoffyl I fymf Seher wasrwd

883
01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:58,890
a nu'n gwyünst i'r wedi'n bod tefer unedio dr'nd fwyl

884
01:14:58,890 --> 01:14:59,870
Diapyr.

885
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:05,020
Again, I'm bored and returned to the great state of Michigan where he was born.

886
01:15:06,620 --> 01:15:09,660
And I thought that was a commitment that

887
01:15:12,340 --> 01:15:15,820
was important to me. I didn't see that same level of commitment

888
01:15:15,820 --> 01:15:22,480
from candick from the top of the house. Maybe it would show particularly in light of the person

889
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:27,600
who would be in charge as busy as that person is, but I thought that was important and

890
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:36,760
So I'm taking a poll here and I think the only one who's out of sorts with this is you.

891
01:15:37,380 --> 01:15:39,640
I'm not really out of sorts with it.

892
01:15:39,900 --> 01:15:43,180
I mean, I think they're all fantastic.

893
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,020
I don't think we have a bad choice here.

894
01:15:47,020 --> 01:15:51,960
And I think the thing that I think I'd like to see it go to

895
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:58,880
kind of, but, you know, I think staff's opinion is especially important

896
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,940
because you guys are going to be doing all the work.

897
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:08,380
And so, you know, as far as I'm concerned, you'll have a

898
01:16:08,380 --> 01:16:09,060
Canadian ambassador.

899
01:16:09,660 --> 01:16:10,320
Oh, wow.

900
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:11,800
Oh, I think here tonight.

901
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,880
Okay, well, I think all four, I repeat.

902
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:24,520
But I think all four submissions, it was important for me to get such outstanding submissions.

903
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:31,420
I think with any of the four, we could have gotten this done, frankly.

904
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:34,820
So it's a hard choice.

905
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,860
I know our two local entities are probably going to be disappointed,

906
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:51,780
But they're both terrific companies and at least one of them has been significantly involved in Birmingham for the last few years.

907
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:59,100
So I think there's one benefit when we do this every 30 or 40 years.

908
01:16:59,780 --> 01:17:02,940
I don't know how long it's been since we've done the zoning redo.

909
01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:11,560
Maybe a little national perspective would be good not that the two local entities don't have

910
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:18,680
prospective multi-state, but certainly the two out-of-state entities have much more

911
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,780
national experience.

912
01:17:21,140 --> 01:17:28,220
It's just a fact that maybe size or length of service concentration in this area.

913
01:17:28,220 --> 01:17:38,260
So I guess I would entertain a motion unless there's any reason for the discussion.

914
01:17:42,270 --> 01:17:43,350
There is a suggestion.

915
01:17:43,690 --> 01:17:45,110
Resolution is there not?

916
01:17:45,890 --> 01:17:47,650
It's on page 20 on page 40.

917
01:17:48,670 --> 01:17:55,110
And that the Planning Board recommends the city commission select blank for purposes of performing

918
01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:57,010
comprehensive zoning ordinance update.

919
01:17:57,010 --> 01:18:05,630
So I would entertain a motion as to the recommendation of the State Commission of an entity.

920
01:18:06,850 --> 01:18:07,590
Is there a motion?

921
01:18:07,930 --> 01:18:09,170
Looking for where it is.

922
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:12,200
Page four of the budget.

923
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:13,500
Page four.

924
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,840
Would somebody like to make a motion?

925
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:17,300
Go ahead.

926
01:18:17,460 --> 01:18:17,600
Go ahead.

927
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:18,520
Sure.

928
01:18:18,740 --> 01:18:19,500
I'll make the motion.

929
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:20,380
Go.

930
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:23,890
Go.

931
01:18:24,510 --> 01:18:29,250
Find where it recommends that the City Commission select how Zia Levine for the purposes

932
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:32,970
performing comprehensive zoning ordinance update for the city in accordance with

933
01:18:32,970 --> 01:18:37,710
the specifications contained within how Zilla rings response to the city's

934
01:18:37,710 --> 01:18:38,630
request for proposals.

935
01:18:39,210 --> 01:18:40,750
Is there a second to that motion?

936
01:18:45,420 --> 01:18:45,920
No second?

937
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:46,540
No second?

938
01:18:46,900 --> 01:18:47,120
Sure.

939
01:18:47,940 --> 01:18:49,600
The second for my question for him.

940
01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:52,240
I thought I'd lost control of the group here.

941
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:53,960
There you go.

942
01:18:54,380 --> 01:18:54,920
I have.

943
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:55,700
I have.

944
01:18:55,700 --> 01:18:57,740
It's a fun time to time to lost control this.

945
01:18:57,740 --> 01:19:07,740
So comments on the motion for we and to the public and he comments from the public on the motion

946
01:19:08,780 --> 01:19:13,060
I don't see any what was that

947
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,580
Somebody's phone it was mine

948
01:19:18,580 --> 01:19:24,720
I don't see the public on so I will call the question let's do a roll call vote

949
01:19:28,260 --> 01:19:31,000
How was he all of being high?

950
01:19:32,380 --> 01:19:33,500
Robin Boyle.

951
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:35,120
Stuart Jeffrey.

952
01:19:37,340 --> 01:19:37,640
England Sheriff.

953
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:38,300
Oh, you.

954
01:19:39,970 --> 01:19:40,510
Do you know where we'll go?

955
01:19:41,310 --> 01:19:41,710
Yes.

956
01:19:43,210 --> 01:19:43,770
Brian Williams.

957
01:19:45,490 --> 01:19:45,970
Does he remember?

958
01:19:46,490 --> 01:19:46,750
Yes.

959
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:49,440
Okay.

960
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:51,620
I think that concludes that item.

961
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:58,120
I want to thank the board personally for all the hard work that's going into this.

962
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:06,160
I know some of you have spent a lot of time looking into this and I think ultimately, as a result of that,

963
01:20:06,260 --> 01:20:11,020
we will be better prepared for the next phase coming up.

964
01:20:11,780 --> 01:20:16,350
We won't be approaching this blindly.

965
01:20:19,050 --> 01:20:21,910
Communications item L2, any?

966
01:20:22,870 --> 01:20:25,850
You want to do project updates, Ernene?

967
01:20:25,850 --> 01:20:33,550
I don't really have anything to comment on that. I do have two things that I could tell you about real quick in this section.

968
01:20:35,130 --> 01:20:39,070
One being our next meeting on January 12th.

969
01:20:39,230 --> 01:20:44,330
Yeah, it's first meeting in the month typically slated for story session type stuff.

970
01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:46,970
I don't expect that we'll have anything.

971
01:20:48,090 --> 01:20:51,090
But, including this because I've got to get this to the commission.

972
01:20:51,930 --> 01:20:58,430
But, there are some things full ground in their background with applications that I was curious

973
01:20:58,430 --> 01:21:00,270
if I needed.

974
01:21:00,990 --> 01:21:05,190
So, I don't think plan now, but if I do end up needing it, would you all be willing to consider

975
01:21:05,190 --> 01:21:09,190
sidelines on that day and amend the rules of procedure in the event that we needed?

976
01:21:10,410 --> 01:21:16,530
Yes, and I think, I don't know when you plan to go to the city commission,

977
01:21:18,810 --> 01:21:19,170
I would hope

978
01:21:19,170 --> 01:21:21,170
January 12th.

979
01:21:21,730 --> 01:21:22,430
I think I said that.

980
01:21:22,430 --> 01:21:23,630
Yeah, I was going to confirm the date.

981
01:21:24,290 --> 01:21:30,390
And what do you envision the start of the process being with assuming the city

982
01:21:30,390 --> 01:21:31,310
commission agrees?

983
01:21:31,550 --> 01:21:32,330
I'll say all the mean.

984
01:21:32,670 --> 01:21:35,090
Would there be an initial meeting with us?

985
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:36,270
Is that the way you would say?

986
01:21:36,270 --> 01:21:37,190
I would also say certainly.

987
01:21:37,250 --> 01:21:40,350
Of course, it'll start internally with all the tables setting stuff.

988
01:21:40,750 --> 01:21:42,350
But yeah, we would bring that this year.

989
01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:46,710
Well, when do you expect the city commission to look at this?

990
01:21:47,050 --> 01:21:48,870
Well, we'd love to do it on January 12th.

991
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:53,090
that's the correct date and forgive me the planning board is 14 so we get back to that but

992
01:21:53,090 --> 01:22:00,310
January 12 so we could we could suspend all of our rules of procedure for January and

993
01:22:00,310 --> 01:22:06,150
have also in in the second meeting in January if they're selected if you'd like and if it

994
01:22:06,150 --> 01:22:10,250
works for everybody involved yeah well

995
01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:16,870
we get into this spring people leave and go to warmer

996
01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:21,650
So I think the earlier we get them in here and the quicker we get started. I would be more comfortable.

997
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:28,290
So we can get them in at the end of January if the city commission agrees with us then let's shift for that.

998
01:22:28,950 --> 01:22:29,710
In that case,

999
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:35,380
Let me make a suggestion and that society make a motion that we have combined meetings both in the

1000
01:22:35,380 --> 01:22:41,220
first and second meetings in January, which gives us the flexibility to consider both the

1001
01:22:41,220 --> 01:22:42,880
study session and site plans.

1002
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,660
At both meetings, I would be super helpful.

1003
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:48,340
Is there a motion?

1004
01:22:50,660 --> 01:22:51,900
The motion maker, Daniel Share.

1005
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:56,420
I'll move that the rules of procedure for the month, the two meetings in January,

1006
01:22:57,260 --> 01:23:04,420
2026, be suspended such that either or both can be a meeting that considers both site plans and

1007
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:06,300
study sessions.

1008
01:23:06,300 --> 01:23:07,320
Study sessions.

1009
01:23:07,940 --> 01:23:08,260
Thank you.

1010
01:23:08,420 --> 01:23:09,400
Is there second to the motion?

1011
01:23:11,460 --> 01:23:12,160
All those in favour?

1012
01:23:12,340 --> 01:23:13,440
Signify by saying aye.

1013
01:23:14,900 --> 01:23:14,980
Aye.

1014
01:23:14,980 --> 01:23:15,600
Any descent?

1015
01:23:16,220 --> 01:23:16,500
Okay.

1016
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:19,860
So that was a number one, if I may.

1017
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:21,040
Number two.

1018
01:23:21,660 --> 01:23:24,340
I just wanted to tell you that we have a new employee.

1019
01:23:24,340 --> 01:23:30,360
Lauren Milia sitting there in the front row there is our new planning intern. You start at what three weeks ago four weeks ago

1020
01:23:34,740 --> 01:23:38,560
It's some on birthday. She started on my birthday. I got myself an intern as a

1021
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:40,940
That was your gift

1022
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,240
Urban planning master student

1023
01:23:45,480 --> 01:23:49,780
Where happy to have her you'll see her more. I just wanted to show your face. No, no, nothing

1024
01:23:56,060 --> 01:24:00,820
I recorded that well, yeah, yeah, we're bringing that all that's worth here.

1025
01:24:01,140 --> 01:24:06,460
Yeah, I know you are, well, they can great contributor to the state.

1026
01:24:06,700 --> 01:24:11,680
No question about it. You'll see Lawrence face more as well as summer and the new year.

1027
01:24:12,060 --> 01:24:16,400
Okay. Well, thank all of you. This is our last meeting of the year.

1028
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:22,300
I think Scott will be in touch with respect to, yeah, lunch and plans.

1029
01:24:22,300 --> 01:24:24,200
I'm not going to assume that role for him.

1030
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:26,360
I've done everything else in the last three months before.

1031
01:24:27,460 --> 01:24:29,080
So he can plan the lunch.

1032
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:31,660
But I want to thank the planning department.

1033
01:24:32,260 --> 01:24:35,180
Again, I stated that the start of the meeting, I think,

1034
01:24:35,480 --> 01:24:37,020
Kudos to all of you.

1035
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:42,260
We wouldn't be embarking on this project without high confidence

1036
01:24:42,260 --> 01:24:45,520
in your abilities to get us through it.

1037
01:24:45,620 --> 01:24:50,290
And so happy holidays to all of you.

1038
01:24:50,290 --> 01:24:52,890
and uh... is there any other business

1039
01:24:54,010 --> 01:24:57,370
i could say this for the last time in twenty twenty five meat

1040
01:24:57,370 --> 01:24:58,190
meeting a jerk