[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] And welcome to the regular meeting of the Birmingham Planning Board for Wednesday, December 10, 2025. Could we please call the roll?
[0:36] Thank
[0:40] you for purpose of this meeting both Duncan and Nassim are going to be voting members.
[0:46] So we have a quorum of seven and we'll proceed.
[0:50] First item is review and approve of the minutes of the regular meeting of November 12, 2025.
[0:56] Are there any comments?
[0:57] And if not, could I have a motion to approve?
[1:01] Comments?
[1:02] No comments.
[1:03] Move to approve of the minutes of November 12, 2025 is presented?
[1:08] Is there a second to the motion?
[1:10] Second?
[1:15] Any comments? All in favor please signify by saying aye.
[1:20] Aye.
[1:21] My comments, this is a little bit of a mixed metaphor meeting.
[1:25] I would like to suggest that we move the pre-application discussion for 3, 4, 9, 5, 2, woodward, which is item L, 1, up ahead of the study session, so that they can make a presentation.
[1:45] And I'd have to sit around for a couple hours waiting for our deliberations.
[1:49] That's acceptable.
[1:51] So the board?
[1:53] So we will proceed with the zoning, or excuse me, the zoning ordinance update
[1:58] After we complete the pre-app discussion of 3, 4, 9, 5, 2.
[2:03] Wardward, Mr. Oki, you're here.
[2:05] You want to stand up and tell us what you know.
[2:12] Hello.
[2:13] That's that comment, just speak for it, and then I'll give them a OK.
[2:18] So introduce yourself, sir.
[2:22] Hello, everybody.
[2:23] My name is Sam Bosno.
[2:24] I'm the CEO of the Beztech companies.
[2:28] And I appreciate you taking the time today and here are a little bit about our project.
[2:34] And very interested in hearing your comments as well.
[2:38] And by the way, thank you for moving up the schedule.
[2:40] So, I'm here with the Zack Weiss system by President of Development and Acquisitions and you guys know the Soroku team Victor and Alex,
[2:53] so for those you don't know, best tack is a, almost a, I think it's about 70 year family business based in Michigan, and we have offices in Florida as well, that focus on apartments and
[3:10] and we also are the owner of the all-season communities
[3:14] and Birmingham just, you know, almost behind this project as well.
[3:22] So, you know, just a little bit of background on us.
[3:27] We have about 30,000 units that we own or manage,
[3:32] and we also have portfolio of commercial properties,
[3:35] and we operate in 14 different states.
[3:38] We're a long-term holders of real estate.
[3:41] We have some properties that we've all in since the late 60s, 70s, so we have a very long-term
[3:49] view on real estate and planning and operations is something we specialize in, and we think
[3:59] about, certainly because of the duration of the asset
[4:03] that we plan on owning on term.
[4:07] I know this project can particularly
[4:08] were very excited to be here today on.
[4:11] I personally tried to develop this property
[4:14] over for the last 10 years,
[4:16] and I know there's been others before us
[4:19] that have worked on some plans.
[4:21] So I know you guys are familiar with the site
[4:23] and some of the challenges of this site,
[4:27] But we believe we're the right developer for that, certainly our approach to developing real
[4:33] state is not just to stick a building on a side and see if it works.
[4:40] We really roll up our sleeves and we have every project that we develop is completely different.
[4:46] So this project in particular is challenging and we have a lot of great ideas that we think
[4:51] for this development to really enhance the Birmingham community,
[4:55] knowing that it's a very prominent piece of property,
[4:58] and prominent in the city of Birmingham.
[5:01] So we look forward to hearing from your comments.
[5:05] As I said, we believe that we have the capabilities
[5:10] to take this through.
[5:11] This is certainly not the biggest project we've ever developed.
[5:14] and it's something that, you know, as a type of company, you know, who primarily, the
[5:23] festy things are selves and it's a project that we want to have in the family for a long
[5:29] term.
[5:30] So anyways with that, I will turn it over to Victor and Alex to talk about the project and of course
[5:35] be around here if you have any questions for me or on the project or for Zach.
[5:41] So, thank you, and about 40 hearing every time.
[5:47] Thank you, Sam.
[5:49] Victor Siroki, I'm here with my son, Alex.
[5:52] Nick, if it's okay, maybe we can put up the first
[5:54] just a cover sheet, even.
[5:56] Here for us.
[5:56] This is what I have, is the first.
[5:58] That's fine.
[6:02] So, obviously, we are Siroki architecture,
[6:05] and we're very excited to be here.
[6:08] And excited to present another unique opportunity.
[6:12] And a big opportunity for city and that is for the development and southeast corner of Woodward and Maple.
[6:22] By the way, we were also family owned business 43 years.
[6:24] That is long as I am but we are doing okay.
[6:28] So I just thought that was nice that he said that.
[6:33] As you, I know you've seen the package.
[6:35] I think city sounded out to you in advance, so I'm sure you had a chance
[6:41] And we just flip through the deck, we'll give kind of a brief overview
[6:45] that goes through the deck as well.
[6:48] Obviously, this is a proposal for a nine-story mixed-use building.
[6:54] We have two floors of underground parking.
[6:58] And so on the lowest floor, B2, we call it.
[7:00] We got about 152 cars, and B1, we got 157 cars.
[7:05] The first floor is a very tall retail space,
[7:08] and the retail front example of woodward and maple along with some building lobbies and then behind
[7:15] that retail space we've got two more levels of parking hidden on the inside corner and I think
[7:21] was notable to say is none of the parking is going to be visible from any of the streets it is
[7:26] all hidden within the building. So from the building facade.
[7:30] We worked very hard with the whole team to make sure that we had building frontages, not just parking levels and parking decks.
[7:42] I'm going to talk a little bit more about the parking behind the retail spaces, but what's also important is we do all want a tall retail first floor.
[7:52] And it also is kind of the podium of the building, right?
[7:56] All reach out to pressure.
[7:58] And we always like to say, every building
[7:59] has got a great base about the end of the top.
[8:02] So that tall retail floor is special.
[8:04] And retail likes tall spaces.
[8:07] Whereas parking level do not need the same height.
[8:10] So using that tall retail space,
[8:12] we can get two levels of parking behind it.
[8:15] That's a clever way to get more parking
[8:17] and make it efficient.
[8:21] Floors 2 through 7 are apartments, and those apartments are, we have about 1096 apartments,
[8:32] 987 apartments, apartments range from 900 square feet to about 1,400 square feet, I know
[8:38] he's going through the deck, we'll go through it a little bit more.
[8:41] And then the top two floors are the 8th and 9th floor are 27 condominiums, those will be 4th sale.
[8:49] And the condominiums are 1800 to 2500 square feet.
[8:53] We actually have separate lobbies for each of the uses as well.
[8:56] The apartments have their own lobbies, and that's off of maple.
[9:00] And the condominiums have their own lobbies, and that's off of maple.
[9:04] And they also have their own elevators for those uses.
[9:10] We are going to request and you can see this in the proposal for two additional floors, the 8th and 9th floor, and actually for part of the 6th floor in the MU5.
[9:21] And that's allowed by ordinance. So in the MU5, you're allowed five stories.
[9:25] We're going to ask for a 6th floor one floor in that area, and then when we get to the MU7, which is the majority of the site.
[9:35] It allows seven floors but you get two additional bonus floors if you meet two of the criteria and the two of the opposing are the mixed use project because we are two of the mixed use project and then that we provide the public parking component for the additional floors of square footage that we're adding and it's we're adding about 60,000 square feet of additional floor area and so that requires 211 additional parking spaces.
[10:05] Just a big picture, not to dwell too much on the number of parking by ordinance,
[10:10] and the residential requires 260 spaces.
[10:15] The retail will require 55 spaces for that 315.
[10:19] And if we add the 200 and one spaces on top of that, we're at 516 spaces required.
[10:27] There is a table in the deck that has all of it, so it's a busy little table, but it's got a lot of
[10:35] expecting you to go on with this. I'm just trying to give the high level. You're doing with
[10:38] lawyers here. We're not, we're not, we're not numbers. We're not numbers. Can't, we're like the
[10:43] detail.
[10:46] And on our proposal, so 516 are kind of a big picture of numbers to think about
[10:53] that we would need if we parked all of it 100% including the bonus floors. We're providing
[11:00] in 444 spaces right now.
[11:03] So we're a little bit short, 72-short space
[11:06] of short from what's required.
[11:08] Now, we're going to continue to still work out.
[11:10] We've got a few ideas, maybe where we
[11:11] can find some additional spaces.
[11:12] And I'm going to talk about other things
[11:14] that we're looking at, but in the big picture,
[11:17] we're only about 14% short of the target.
[11:21] And I know the planning board has discretion
[11:23] to wave up to 50% of the parking.
[11:26] We're not talking about anything like that.
[11:28] and we're going to continue to do the best we can to get as much parking as we can.
[11:35] And I would also say that in our proposal, we will always maintain the 200 and one public spaces.
[11:40] We want to have those spaces available to the public.
[11:43] And the way we're going to do this is we've hired obviously, as you know, when we come in for a big project like this,
[11:50] we will have the CIS and along with the preliminary site plan.
[11:53] And with the CIS, they'll be a traffic study.
[11:57] And Stonefield Engineering is doing their traffic study.
[12:01] They will also do a shared parking analysis.
[12:05] And they've already started looking at it.
[12:07] I see Brian raising his eyes.
[12:09] A shared parking analysis where they will evaluate
[12:12] different parking demands at different times
[12:16] for the different uses.
[12:18] And this is a common methodology used
[12:21] in mixed-used buildings especially, because as you can imagine, the residential components
[12:27] have different peak demands than the commercial components.
[12:34] For example, the residential components have a hundred percent peak demand overnight.
[12:42] However, during the day, their peak demand is only 50 percent.
[12:46] And these are statistical information that they'll show you, and you can imagine people are
[12:51] going to school, they're going to work, they're going to the job,
[12:53] going out and visiting, but at night, when they come home, and they go to sleep,
[12:58] their peak demand is 100%, but during the day it's only 50.
[13:02] And the retail is sort of at different times as well, because the retail
[13:06] peaks in the early afternoon, and then it still stays fairly busy
[13:12] until maybe the early evening, but after that, there's no retail parking
[13:19] And that is really needed.
[13:23] So Stonefield will do a very good analysis.
[13:27] And when they're here, when we're here with you
[13:30] for the CIS and a pre-oplication or the preliminary site
[13:33] plan, they will show you all the days of the week,
[13:39] all the times of the day, and what the requirements are.
[13:43] And on a preliminary analysis that they've already done for us,
[13:47] We are able to sufficiently park this site and maintain public parking and
[13:53] We think we will be able to meet the spirit of the ordinance and we we think you will agree when you see it
[14:00] And as I said we will continue to work on
[14:03] tweaking the plan in fact we've even hired a parking consultant rich and associates to help us
[14:10] refine the garage plans and the underground parking to just you know with their
[14:15] expertise to find nuances of you can get a few more spaces here. You can get another space here.
[14:20] We're going to look at maybe opportunities to do some more tandem spaces. We have very few tandem spaces where one's behind the other.
[14:27] In fact, almost all of our spaces are single loaded, which is the best way to do it.
[14:31] But it's not uncommon to have tandem spaces in mixed use buildings like this.
[14:37] Not to mention, there's the municipal parking around us. I mean, we have street parking around us across the street.
[14:43] there's 33 spots where Kroger is in the front that right away, right there, we know that there's the parking system of streets and then the garage across the P-body garage is not that far
[14:55] and now we have kind of a nice improved crosswalk at forests, you know.
[15:00] We've got a delay for us to make that crosswalk better. So we've got two crosswalk opportunities. We've got maple and woodward, and then we've got the forest and woodward crossing.
[15:13] Maybe if we want, we can go through the deck, and I could maybe talk about the drawings, and I'm going to use this pointer here. This is just the first page, and you could see this is just a massing model.
[15:28] We're looking at the way the building is masked and we're going to show you a few more examples.
[15:33] But we're looking at big retail store fronts, punch window openings and upper units.
[15:41] We've got the top two floors, have to step back each of the top floors, steps back 10 feet, which is required by ordinance.
[15:48] And we've got a very nice amenity space out on this two-story amenity space in the building.
[15:52] And you could appreciate that these larger, high-end apartment and condoled developments.
[15:58] The amenities spaces are really premium and they're important.
[16:02] And it's almost like hospitality.
[16:03] Like you go a very fine hotel.
[16:05] Or the lobbies are very dramatic.
[16:07] Great work out rooms, spa facilities, meeting areas, things like that.
[16:13] And then you could see that the building is sort of you shape
[16:18] what this extra link here. This is the MU5 portion. It's a little bit lower, and then there's
[16:26] an active courtyard in the middle of the building. There are a lot of units looking to,
[16:30] and then we've got a rooftop pool up on top of this. Sixth floor right there. And one of the
[16:35] things that we really thought about a lot is, if we know what words are busy street, it's busy all
[16:43] long, right? They and night. And so sound and sound proofing is going to be important in this building.
[16:53] And the interior courtyard is really an important space. We're going to have just as many units on the interior
[17:00] courtyard, if not more, on the interior courtyard, they'll look down to this unit, which will be a quieter space,
[17:06] and a more tranquil space for the residents as well. This bottom drawing just shows the site I think everybody
[17:12] was a site that's woodward and that's maple. And the sites about 67.
[17:17] We can skip this one at the table, that's Brian and I think it's on the
[17:20] site and more detail.
[17:25] This is the lowest level of parking, and you can see it's fully parked.
[17:29] We call that B2. It's 152 spaces. We've got speed ramp on the side.
[17:35] We do have to provide some underground storm detention, so there will be a
[17:39] down here that we'll be working on with our engineers for underground storm detention.
[17:44] The elevators and stairs all go down to all the levels through the whole building.
[17:50] Then the next slide is really what we call B1.
[17:53] That's the level just below the first floor.
[17:55] And there's 157 spaces there.
[17:58] Can I just interrupt you?
[17:59] Yes.
[17:59] As long as there's interrupt.
[18:01] When these drawings say market rate parking, is that what you referred to as public?
[18:06] Yeah, it's probably not the best terminology, but yes, I think we're in our mind we're saying this is the public.
[18:11] Okay, thanks.
[18:14] Okay.
[18:15] The next slide is the first floor.
[18:17] This is, I think, an important slide, because a lot of thought has gone into, how do you approach the building?
[18:22] How do visitors come to the building?
[18:24] How do residents come to the building?
[18:27] So you can see obviously we've got woodward here, we've got maple here, and we have an alley over here, public alley.
[18:34] So, one of the opportunities is off of woodwork, which is a nice approach, regular,
[18:41] that is both pedestrian and vehicular, and that's kind of like a big statement.
[18:45] That's an opportunity, right through the whole building, that brings you into the project
[18:50] and into the garage.
[18:51] Additionally, we have another approach off of maple, that allows for two ways, and again,
[18:58] you can go into the speed ramps here or a park.
[19:00] And then a third approach is off of the alley and that people can come in this way as well.
[19:07] So there's three ways to approach the building.
[19:10] I think the big statement is right here on the front facade of the building.
[19:14] And that is kind of almost like a gateway entry.
[19:17] Our lobbies for the apartments and the condos are also maple and the elevators are there.
[19:24] And then all the sort of supplementary spaces.
[19:26] mailworms, package rooms, things like that.
[19:31] And then we've got retail spaces here in the purple
[19:36] on the corner of Woodward.
[19:37] And then, for further down, Woodward,
[19:39] we've got additional retail spaces.
[19:41] We've got some loading zones or loading docs here,
[19:44] and we've got an elevator and stairs for loading
[19:49] and deliveries as well.
[19:51] That will take you all through the tower.
[19:56] And one thing that is going to be important is for us is the way we approach
[20:02] when residents come in or people come in and pick up people or drop people off.
[20:06] This area on the first floor is really even though we're in the garage with a premium
[20:10] space, we're living along make sure it's really beautifully detailed, special paving, nice
[20:16] finishes, good lighting, because that is somewhat the front door for people who come in
[20:22] vehicle.
[20:26] If we go to the next slide, this is that mezzanine level of parking, this is that
[20:32] again, second level of parking that we'll use right in here, and then of course what you're
[20:41] seeing is the tall storefront over here. I'm going to talk a little bit more about this mezzanine
[20:46] level of parking because there's an interesting element that we have to discuss in approach,
[20:51] but we'll come back to that.
[20:55] Now we're starting to get into the residential floor.
[20:57] So this is our second floor and you can see the building
[21:00] or this sort of a new shape around it.
[21:03] Isn't opening in here or there's some full occasion.
[21:08] This is a space that has the building amenities as well.
[21:13] And part of the amenities, part of this is two stories,
[21:15] and part of this is one story.
[21:17] And that's like, as I said, there'll be some meeting rooms,
[21:20] areas for some dining or private dining, there will be fitness areas, some spa areas, things
[21:29] like that.
[21:31] And then recreation areas.
[21:32] And of course, this is our courtyard space that would be beautifully landscape, some
[21:37] outdoor areas, fire pets, fountain, etc.
[21:41] And we'll be programming that and detailing it in more detail.
[21:46] You'll notice that, one of the elements of our building is that we stepped the building
[21:49] back 10 feet in the middle because it is a big long facade and we feel like, you know, from an urbanistic standpoint and architecturally it's nice to step the building back to give some relief.
[22:00] If we go to the next slide, this is you're just seeing now additional floor space on the third level and this is that tube story in one of these days and that's going to be really dramatic from both outside and inside.
[22:13] It'll be almost forward ceiling glass.
[22:15] You're looking to the building and when you're in the building, you'll be looking out onto the excitement of what we're doing.
[22:23] Levels four and five and six are pretty much the same.
[22:28] They have a unit.
[22:31] And then when we get to the 7th level is where we get to this other rooftop committee, and you can see over here it says, M U 5 and M U 7.
[22:39] The majority of this site, all of this is in the M U 7. And this, this one person is in the M U 5.
[22:46] So this is the last floor. This six floor is the last floor in the M U 5. And then this is our outdoor roof deck where we'll have a pool. We'll have all the elements around the pool.
[22:58] We'll have some pergola, fire pits, and then they'll be access to bathrooms and showers and things like that as well for the pool, which is required by code when you have a pool.
[23:13] And then if we go up again, we get to the next floor, and this is the first condominium floor, so it's level eight, and the condominiums have their own smaller amenity space.
[23:29] So you can see these units are larger, and of course there's no units over here anymore.
[23:35] And then when we get to the top floor, the 9th floor is the building steps back again.
[23:39] Another 10 feet and we get the 5th floor as well.
[23:44] You get to the next level.
[23:46] This is our next drawing, I'm sorry.
[23:48] This is just a schematic section of the building.
[23:52] And this was in the street level and you can see there's two levels of underground parking and a gray and then you get that call
[23:59] retail floor and then you get two floors of parking behind it and then you get the
[24:05] many states that part of it's two stories part of one story then you get the residential units and a condo units
[24:10] on this side you're seeing residential units and then hold that up by the top and then
[24:18] just moving on
[24:20] This is, again, now, just, we're still obviously
[24:24] designing the building, but we're trying to emphasize
[24:28] the massing, the verticality, the apartments,
[24:32] have punched openings.
[24:34] And our mind, this is from an urban standpoint,
[24:38] we feel like this should be a brick building.
[24:41] The base maybe will have stone, but the body of it
[24:44] will be brick.
[24:45] The top will be potentially brick, or maybe other materials
[24:50] It could be a stuck on our panel detail and we get up to the condos, obviously the condos
[24:55] have these beautiful terraces that wrap all the way around, so that's really dramatic.
[25:01] We're thinking maybe we would have small Julia balconies for some of these units and
[25:07] the woodward and maple, and then there's another nuance to the site that on the maple
[25:14] side is the right way is wider at the corner.
[25:18] and then as you go further back to the east of building steps out or the property line
[25:22] steps out. So we're allowing the building a step out and it just sort of helps break
[25:25] that line over a bit and this is the entry to the apartments. And if we, you know, we have
[25:32] the potential to have a restaurant in here and if we do, we would put the outdoor seating
[25:37] or cap-based seating on that glide right of way on Maple. It just makes sense to utilize
[25:42] that space. It's city right away. It's never really going to get built on. You think
[25:46] Maybe conceptually a long time ago. There was thoughts that maybe maple will get widened.
[25:52] I don't think that's going to be in the cards ever, but it is that excess property that is wide right away.
[26:00] Just another element I should mention is right now this parking is diagonal parking.
[26:09] What we really want to do is we want to widen the sidewalks and put trees here and make it parallel parking.
[26:13] And still have a drive so that people can fall in, but we want to make the sidewalk and
[26:21] streetscape experience better and wider.
[26:24] So instead of that diagonal parking that you, you know, there's a lot of property zones,
[26:27] but we don't have that.
[26:29] Not necessarily the best.
[26:30] At least parallel parking will be better.
[26:33] If we just look at some of the other views, this is just kind of coming around the building.
[26:37] Here you can see that big opening,
[26:41] that will be an important approach of special materials going
[26:43] into that.
[26:44] This is the L-E-U, and there'll be an entry to the garage here.
[26:49] There'll be loading docs over here, and this is all retail.
[26:53] So the retail will be tall storefronts with nice urban canopies.
[26:56] And that corner expression that wraps around that maple for the amenity space.
[27:04] And here, this is a view of maple.
[27:06] If you were almost over the top of Crogory, this is what you'd be seeing.
[27:09] This is that amount of space, retail storefronts, residential lobby,
[27:16] condominium lobby, and then here you're seeing the building as a step back,
[27:20] and then a step sound, and you're seeing that pool of rooftop area over here,
[27:24] which is a better and a little bit lower.
[27:28] And this is kind of a bird's eye view looking down from the roof,
[27:33] but it's important to see the courtyard and then this pool area.
[27:36] And by the way, on the east side of that portion of the building, we are proposing residential units on the upper floors.
[27:49] We've actually set our building back 10 feet on the first floor and 15 feet on the upper floors.
[27:57] And we recognize that there's the potential for a future development, if somebody were to
[28:05] want to purchase these buildings and propose a bigger building.
[28:09] So we're being very careful about setting our building back so that we have a day light and open space.
[28:16] And if somebody does purchase this building and takes it down and builds a larger, let's say another mixed
[28:22] building for instance. They would set their building back 10 feet because they would have to
[28:27] put windows in it. And that's required by code. And so we'll have at least 25 feet between the
[28:34] buildings. And good example of that is what we did at our age and our 370 ground project. We got this
[28:41] beautiful via and it was nicely landscaped and you've got windows on both sides. It could be a very
[28:46] nice space. So we're really trying to think ahead of these buildings are 400s of years. So
[28:52] what's going to happen as the city maturers and growths I think that may be the last
[28:57] slide is that it yeah we normally allow 15 minutes for these so we're
[29:04] we're not there so let me let me I have a couple of comments and then I'm
[29:08] an open to other members first of all rich is that consulting our people they're going to
[29:17] do the parking structure I've known them for 40 years the terrific they did Birmingham
[29:21] point, so that's a plus. I think the biggest problem you have is the shortage of parking spaces.
[29:30] You may know we just declined an opportunity to approve the building that was 49 short,
[29:39] roughly 50 short on Southwoodward. So I think you need to work on that a little bit,
[29:47] Whether it's, and I realize economics plays into this, you know, one way to do is increase the size of some of the very small units to reduce the parking requirement.
[30:00] On the other hand, I do like the component where you have public parking, which, of course, is, importantly, not exist in the triangle district. So we'll look at it. We don't have authority. You'd have to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals in any event, if you're short. So we could approve it, but I think it's, I'm not positive.
[30:25] And we have a precedent here that we're dealing with for Victor that Birmingham Point had enough parking spaces on site, so that presents a challenge for us.
[30:38] Those are my thoughts.
[30:40] I'm not definitively concluded anything, but I think you need to work on the parking spaces, and I think you know that.
[30:46] Others, Stewart, you want to start?
[30:51] Yeah, I mean,
[30:54] I don't disagree about the parking thing, but I think there's a lot of if you look at it at a total package, I think there's a lot that you've done here that you didn't have to do here, that feeds in very, maybe better than other projects we've seen for this site into our master plan and things that are also important to us other than places for our four-wheel friends.
[31:20] So I did have one question, and just only because I'm curious, what would be a double-level
[31:28] amenity?
[31:29] It's a thick and climbing wall, or probably a fitness area, which will have big windows,
[31:37] and maybe part of the gathering space to really take in all of the views of Woodward and
[31:44] downtown.
[31:45] That's going to be a unique perspective up there.
[31:47] So it's just to make it more grand, that's right, that's right.
[31:51] That's right.
[31:52] Maybe we will do a kind of walk, it's another event.
[31:56] Well, as we've said before, this is the most important sight
[31:59] in Southeast Michigan.
[32:02] Green, why do you restrict it as that?
[32:04] These are Michigan.
[32:06] The whole country, the whole country, the whole country,
[32:08] the whole country, the whole country, the whole country,
[32:09] the whole country, the whole country.
[32:12] Another elephant in the room apart from parking,
[32:15] M. You're on, you know, Michigan one, they're going to have a say and what is going to happen
[32:23] along there have you had any discussion so far, or are you holding your that keeping that
[32:29] public right. We know we have to address M. Now obviously you're talking about that right
[32:36] of way. So right now they have more diagonal parking. We're not changing the approaches on
[32:44] they're under it, and we're not changing the island that separates woodward from the
[32:50] drive-out.
[32:50] What we're talking about changing is taking those, those diagonal spaces and making them
[32:58] fewer and making them parallel, so they're not sticking out as much.
[33:02] And therefore, when they don't stick out as much, the extra space I'd like to put back in,
[33:06] or we'd like to put back in, is make the sidewalks in front of the building wider and to
[33:11] some street trees in there as well to soften the building. We have a very large building and we want
[33:17] to treat it with the same care and beauty that our downtown has done right along the wood
[33:23] we're going to make. I mean we've got one of the prettiest downtowns and the most walkable downtowns
[33:28] as we all know. Second, quick point, smart. You know they've got bus stops on both sides,
[33:37] Maple and Woodward to just move one of them a couple of days ago, I think, you got to be
[33:43] of that in mind as well.
[33:44] Because that's an amount of time.
[33:45] We haven't been thinking about that.
[33:46] It's an important facility for this.
[33:48] And we've got, we feel like we've got good room and a final part for those long enough,
[33:55] where you've got your cafe seating.
[33:57] It might have been correct, but that's exactly where Barclay in had their restaurant or coffee
[34:04] place.
[34:04] I mean, how am I right?
[34:06] You're coming back.
[34:08] You can see that it was a botclian, you know?
[34:10] It like development, done, done, done, done.
[34:12] He's building, you know, anyway.
[34:13] You know, back.
[34:16] First, I really like the scale and the appearance of the rendering.
[34:20] A couple of questions is the corner of what we're in maple.
[34:24] Those first three stories, which include the retail and the amenity.
[34:28] Is that a glass?
[34:28] Is that like a glass curtain?
[34:30] Is that?
[34:32] The retail space is almost 20 feet tall.
[34:35] Okay, you know, so it's almost all glass and then there's steel canopies, and then you see that second, so that's that first 20 feet, then you see the other two
[34:49] Yeah, that's the two stories of the amenities space that will wrap all the way around the corner, so it really sets up kind of an important element on the corner, and I think it helps differentiate the building is something special happening at the corner
[35:02] That's all glass
[35:02] That's all glass.
[35:03] And look nice.
[35:04] Another question that 10-foot set back on the woodward side for the second floor units,
[35:12] one, two, three, four, like six units.
[35:14] All of these are set back, 10 feet.
[35:15] No, no, I'm down in the second floor.
[35:18] Right above all the entries.
[35:20] Is that a balcony or is that just a space?
[35:23] We haven't shown it as a balcony, but I actually thought about it and we haven't talked
[35:26] about it, but it isn't opportunity to create a terrace for those second floor units.
[35:31] We have a feature for those as at any point.
[35:34] We may be need to hire them as a salt descendant.
[35:37] You just added them to conflict of interest.
[35:40] Don't get sad for sale, at least for the next two hours.
[35:45] I like it, and I like it a lot.
[35:46] Thank you.
[35:47] Thank you.
[35:48] So beautiful as always.
[35:52] Really thoughtful planning on the first floor, three ways in and out as great as we
[36:01] know how busy this is. The thought of having the drop-off lane internally as not to have that
[36:11] condition going on woodward or maple. Thank you. You know, it's thought obviously put
[36:18] in the packet drop-off and all those kind of things that caused congestion. So great. I really
[36:26] look forward to seeing what you bring us about the parking, I mean, it makes perfect sense
[36:30] to me.
[36:31] And honestly, I don't think if it didn't work for you, you would want to build this building
[36:38] because I know you mentioned there is other parking sort of around, but I mean, it's not
[36:44] really convenient to expect people from this building to walk from a crosswood ward.
[36:50] So, of course, you're going to have to make sure it works for you for your users, for your
[36:57] because it just wouldn't make sense otherwise.
[36:59] So I really look forward to those numbers.
[37:02] The numbers do work for us right now.
[37:04] We're going to demonstrate it for you with the share partner analysis.
[37:07] I think that will be eye-opening.
[37:09] And I appreciate you proposing to sacrifice the diagonal parking on Woodward
[37:15] to give us better streetscape.
[37:19] And I know you're losing spots there by doing it,
[37:21] but it's such a benefit to us.
[37:23] so, you know, thank you for that, and I would, I,
[37:30] I love the smaller unit sizes. I mean, I don't know what that means for rent. But you probably don't
[37:39] yet either, I suppose, but maybe they're working on the profile farm, as we know what rents
[37:44] are generally in the market today. Fortunately, projects are expensive. This property is expensive.
[37:52] But fortunately, the rents can support the project if it's all done right.
[37:57] Well, my point in that is that we, we look for, we hope for some, some smaller units,
[38:05] units that are the traditional professionals or, you know, smaller, we have too many
[38:12] 4,000 square foot condos that are only affordable to very few people.
[38:18] So, so this is really great, and I would, I would not like to see them turn into a bunch of
[38:23] 2,000 square foot units to fix the parking.
[38:28] So I hope we can work that all out and sort of keep what
[38:33] you proposed because I think it can be really great.
[38:36] So thanks.
[38:38] So like my colleagues, I like the massing.
[38:40] I like the minimum assuming that the materials will be high quality
[38:44] in the last one, P, G, P, all over effective.
[38:49] I don't know.
[38:49] So what the challenges from the planning point of view
[38:53] So the things I'm hoping you folks won't think about and address fall in for me and that
[38:59] two categories.
[38:59] One is partying talk about parking at length.
[39:03] This is a surprise that that's an issue.
[39:06] This is an area that's congested on all four sides.
[39:12] So when you said, oh, even people can just go park in corner and walk across the street or
[39:17] park in the park street, start from walk across the street.
[39:19] I'm not sure how practical that is.
[39:21] I agree.
[39:23] But again, I'm not prejudging, I'm just telling you that that's something that I'm sure
[39:27] we're all going to be looking at very closely.
[39:29] In connection with parking, I'm going to be wanting to understand very clearly how many
[39:35] times we count how many spaces.
[39:40] So just by way of example, if and don't hold these aren't the right numbers, I understand
[39:45] that.
[39:46] But if you need 200 public spaces and 200 residential spaces, it seems to me those are probably not the same 200 spaces that's right in my mind.
[39:55] So, you know, it's segregating that and I don't think the drawing's quite do it yet, but again, this is conceptual.
[40:03] In terms of access,
[40:07] one of the things that was an element of controversy between the planning board
[40:13] And the last developer to make a proposal here was left
[40:18] term out of the maple side site.
[40:24] Usually in those circumstances, we win, not always.
[40:28] But so be sensitive to that, be prepared to address that.
[40:33] Let's turn out, turn out of the structure.
[40:37] On to westbound maple, crossing, yes, I'm trapped.
[40:42] And I know it's backed up there.
[40:43] And that's a intersection.
[40:45] Yeah, that particular stretch is kind of backs up.
[40:49] I forget what level of service that intersection is,
[40:52] but that's an item of, okay, of some interest.
[40:56] Likewise,
[40:59] the, not just the M.D.
[41:00] question of parking and, you know, I agree,
[41:03] a parallel parking in woodward's better than the angled parking,
[41:07] but what happens to the traffic flow
[41:10] was people try and move in to the out of the right handling into the whatever you call
[41:17] that I'm not area that's you know not travel but where people go in part that that when
[41:23] you change there you go yeah okay so when a building like this with its density and it's
[41:35] For cars, what impact is that going to have on the safety of traffic kind of pulling into that slip street?
[41:44] Okay, you know, I hope the traffic consultant will look at that.
[41:47] One of the problems that I see throughout the Woodward landscape is the conflict between folks.
[41:56] In this case coming out of the alley, wanting to turn on the Woodward folks coming up in this case north on the Woodward.
[42:02] We've been to the slip screen that kind of conflict, that's something to talk about, okay, and address.
[42:12] Likewise, one of the things that we did not resolve, and I'm, I hope, Abbey or environmental folks look at it in the CIS,
[42:23] This site had, if I recall correctly, in prior years, there were some hazardous materials that were on the site.
[42:33] And I can't remember if it was a gas station or a bright cleaner or whatever, to the point where, again, by memory, a phase two was something that we had wanted to see.
[42:45] So, have them as they do that, and look at that, see if there is, you know, if there is a phase two that's required to recommend it, okay, you know, how that will sort itself out.
[42:56] But in general, it's a given economics, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, you know, it's a nice solution to a difficult site. The last comment is that when you, the,
[43:15] The question of, or I refer to as counting spaces for different purposes, that impacts whether
[43:22] you meet the parking, the public parking requirement for the bonus stories.
[43:27] So keep that's, but it's both a, do you meet the ordinance in terms of the number of spaces
[43:32] as well as are you qualified for two more spaces, two more stories?
[43:38] And that's why we've said we're always going to try to maintain 200 public spaces for
[43:44] for the public, for those bonus floors.
[43:48] So the shortfall, I guess, is on the required parking a little bit, right?
[43:53] Yeah.
[43:53] That's the way, maybe, that we were looking at it.
[43:56] And that's why we wanted to demonstrate that with the shared parking,
[44:00] there is sufficient parking for this project.
[44:02] Obviously, they would never tackle a project of this size and magnitude
[44:07] without that confidence that there is plenty of parking.
[44:10] and a noteworthy public part of the component that people can use.
[44:15] Well, I mean, just, you know, so it's kind of clear where we have to come from.
[44:21] It's not uncommon for a developer to say your ordinance is somewhat out of date.
[44:31] And because of this, that, of the other thing, it really shouldn't be 100 parking spaces required.
[44:37] It could only be 75 that's, and we the developer would never, you know, under a part of the building.
[44:45] All that's well and good.
[44:46] I have no doubt for about that, but we are constrained by what the ordnance says, not by what the ordnance would say if it was smarter.
[44:55] I agree.
[44:56] I would never say our ordnance is outdated.
[44:59] But I...
[45:00] And again, when we lay this all out in the big picture of the people, take your comments and we'll address all of these items.
[45:10] to see? Nothing much to add, just to reiterate, very happy to see e folks involved in this
[45:17] given the importance, the utmost importance of the site to the city and the visibility.
[45:24] Thank you. If I can, I do want to mention two other things that I didn't say.
[45:32] Well, first of all, Nick, you can quickly come along. I'm under the impression that the planning board
[45:37] actually can leave the up to 50% of the required parking by ordinance if we demonstrate that
[45:46] we meet certain findings and that we have sufficient parking and they feel comfortable
[45:52] that it's not a board of appeals action, it's a planning board, it has the authority.
[45:57] That's right.
[45:57] Now, I was going to actually say before we ended that in contrast, I think our Lawrence was
[46:02] actually ahead of the curve and ahead of its time.
[46:05] And adding things like that, obviously we've never used it because the development has been really slow in the triangle.
[46:12] A comparable sort of reduction that Victor is mentioning is the B3 stuff that we just did at 479.
[46:20] The mixed use reductions. It's the same concept for the same spirit and intent where you do have the power to reduce up to 50%.
[46:27] Should you want to? Victor has said that they're not going to ask for 50%.
[46:30] percent? No. That's just a tool and the toolbox that you could use. Should you find their
[46:35] arguments? Yeah. Any additional comments you have? Can I mention two more things?
[46:41] One more thing. There is another nuance to this that I should mention. Remember we talked
[46:47] about that? Mezzanine of parking in the back behind the retail. There's an extra floor
[46:52] parking in the two-storey space. In the tall retail space we got two levels of parking.
[47:00] By definition, this is a nuance of the building code versus the zoning ordinance.
[47:04] By definition of the building code, they may classify that extra level of parking as a
[47:10] floor, not a misamy.
[47:13] And if it's classified as a floor, we will need a variance from the board of zoning appeals.
[47:21] Visually, we're within all the building heights, in fact, we're even the tallest part
[47:24] is under the building height.
[47:26] If you look at the building, it's a nice story building.
[47:27] This is like almost a hidden floor behind the storefront.
[47:31] We understand.
[47:33] So it's just something that's a nuance that we won't have jurisdiction on that.
[47:37] It's good.
[47:37] No, you won't.
[47:38] But maybe if you're, if you like it, well, they always want to hear what we think.
[47:44] Thank you.
[47:45] Okay.
[47:47] And then the last thing is, we probably will pursue just to be totally transparent.
[47:52] We probably will pursue an economic development license for a liquor license if we do have a restaurant
[48:00] This certainly will qualify and it would be a city commission
[48:02] You got to size no question about that. Yeah, that's it. Thank you very much
[48:07] And we really look forward to working with you. This is a really exciting project for us
[48:11] He's saving project for the city. Yeah, for the seat
[48:15] for the whole state of Michigan.
[48:21] Okay, and thank you.
[48:22] That just southeast.
[48:23] Sorry, it took so much time.
[48:24] Thank you very much.
[48:24] Great work, guys.
[48:25] Thank you.
[48:26] Okay.
[48:29] We're going to move along.
[48:31] And now we go back to item key one.
[48:35] The zoning ordinance update project.
[48:40] Consultant selection, and this is not a final selection.
[48:44] And so I would point out to the public who may be listening that the retention of a consultant
[48:53] which has been authorized by the City Commission, ultimately the City Commission will
[48:58] make the decision as to which consultants will be hired.
[49:05] And so our role here is to make a recommendation.
[49:11] Let me go back and just highlight briefly that originally we sent out RFPs.
[49:18] We obtained a couple of months ago six proposals in the meeting in October, I think,
[49:33] We interviewed six proposals.
[49:38] We then requested interviews in November of four entities.
[49:45] I'll say all of the being, Kendra Keyes, Giffles, Webster, and McKenna.
[49:51] We interviewed all four entities at our November meeting.
[49:56] We agreed as a playboard that we would review not only the original submissions
[50:03] but the results of the interviews and come back in December with the hope and I would say in my case expectation that we would recommend a single entity for approval by the City Commission that whatever meeting they choose to consider it.
[50:30] And then I have asked, and we didn't discuss it the last,
[50:34] necessarily, the last meeting.
[50:35] I want to make a comment on the fact that we received six proposals.
[50:41] And I think, frankly, all of them were very good.
[50:49] And this has been a difficult process for all of us
[50:55] to consider these.
[50:56] But I want to flip that the other way to say that I think is a compliment to the city and the
[51:04] city planning department that we have this many really terrific proposals coming in because
[51:12] these people would not choose to work in Birmingham unless they felt that the people we have in place
[51:17] at all are qualified and competent to be able to guide the city through this process with them.
[51:28] So I think it's a compliment to the city and to the city staff that we have this many.
[51:34] What I do outstanding proposals.
[51:36] I've asked Nick, because you all know and we reviewed this that the proposals were reviewed by a number of people within city administration.
[51:47] And I think it's appropriate before we start finally discussing this that we get the input of the city administration because to date we have not
[51:57] Yes, so what say you Mr. DuPoy? Sure. Thanks. I may have this city. Thanks for your kind words as well. It's much appreciated and so we did take it seriously
[52:07] We considered a directed that you wanted us to come today with the recommendation from city staff
[52:13] So just to reiterate, the entire planning department reviewed it, three members of the building department and the entire city manager's office, all reviewed everything we've got from the proposals to the interviews.
[52:28] We then congregated about this.
[52:30] We scored him, evaluated him as just as you did for the RFPs. And then we also congregated last Wednesday to talk about how the interviews went, go over the RFPs, both considerations.
[52:44] And what we came up with was, and I want to preface this very specifically because we felt exactly the same way you felt. And what a good fortune we have to have such a hard decision.
[52:54] We felt as though the consensus was that two rows to the top in the interview stage combined with their RFP responses, and ultimately it came down to details.
[53:06] And when it came to the details, we felt as though how Zia Levine would be best suited for this project.
[53:14] A number of comments were made, and they feel it could be a really good synergy between the project team and our team.
[53:22] They're high quality graphical approach, and they're really interesting, I guess, a unique analysis style using the GIS components.
[53:34] They're attention to detail when it comes to their RFP, but also their presentation and how they tailored those types of things.
[53:40] And a number of other things, what's also important because frankly, the second one was that was very highly rated, was kind of kissed.
[53:50] And a lot of their draw, not that they would not do a good job with the ordinance, but their uncle plus platform is a huge draw.
[53:59] It's a really good, great program we've got it already.
[54:04] So, what's important to know and what we discussed in our internal meetings is that, yes we have it already,
[54:09] So we've kind of got that piece.
[54:11] Again, not that they would do a bad job or not just a good of a job.
[54:16] But to get the highest and best form of on-code plus platform,
[54:20] it would still be an upcharge from what they propose in their
[54:24] cost proposal.
[54:27] And what how do you live inside of the interviews is,
[54:29] what they'll deliver, whatever we want, and whatever
[54:32] format we want.
[54:33] So what I did then, because cost is a consideration here
[54:36] that I admitted we didn't really factor into the
[54:39] fee process, the cost to upload the on code. So all we really do with on code is we play
[54:45] an annual license fee of about $4,000. That's a maintenance type fee, a license type fee.
[54:52] And then we pay on occasion to update the ordinance here and there. We pay as low as $44 to
[54:58] amend ordinance and as high as almost 2000. You can figure that that 2000 figure was when we
[55:09] All that to say, very inexpensive.
[55:13] It's something we may be able to absorb now,
[55:15] even though we haven't really budgeted for it,
[55:18] on which we do plan to, but.
[55:21] So that alongside of the Uncle Plus higher level platforms,
[55:27] which we can still have access to,
[55:30] even if we don't go with Kendick East,
[55:32] we felt like we could have our cake
[55:34] needed to, and maybe have the best of both worlds.
[55:36] So for those reasons, oh, I'm also, by the way,
[55:39] We also love that house you live in, there's moping the sign ordered it's in there that's in dire need of updates
[55:45] So for all those reasons that's what we chose it was difficult. We just spent about an hour in there
[55:50] Talking about all of these, but ultimately that's what we chose. Okay. Thank you. So I'm going to pick a random
[55:57] comments from
[55:58] Plain board members. I'm going to start with Dan's share. He's probably not ready
[56:06] I tend to agree with Nick in that, for me, when I look at the whole ball of wax, there were
[56:14] two firms that were superior to the others, between mentioned, Kennedy, Keyston, House
[56:22] the Alibine.
[56:23] I thought that McKenna and Giffles' Webster were good would do a good job, but they weren't
[56:29] quite as thorough or inspirational as I thought the candidate in the OCO were, and I come
[56:39] at this also from the point of view of what we're trying to accomplish.
[56:46] Keep in mind, we're trying to align his own importance with the new master plan.
[56:51] We're not writing on a clean slate, we're not tearing everything up, we're not, you know,
[56:58] of just making stuff up was we go along and say, oh, here's a good idea, let's throw it in.
[57:03] I mean, this is, you know, an alignment of some stuff that we've already not some stuff.
[57:09] A very detailed master plan that we spent literally years working on that had large amounts of community engagement.
[57:19] So the community's familiar with what we've done, what the city's done with the master plan,
[57:25] And should have a pretty good idea of what alignment would look like.
[57:31] You know, that said, there are some interesting and creative concepts in the Master Plan.
[57:39] And I think we, as a city, would benefit from national best practices, assistance in adapting this only ordinance to,
[57:51] or aligning this own ordinance with the Master Plan.
[57:56] It's a close call for me between Kennedy, Keystone, House of the Elevines.
[58:01] I guess I felt the end of the day a little bit more comfortable with House of the Elevines.
[58:08] And I thought that's where I, my recommendation, would land.
[58:15] I agree with you on the choice of House of the Elevines.
[58:18] A couple of points I had was a conforms to the budget.
[58:23] I'd like their emphasis on creative community engagement.
[58:31] Presentation, a couple of weeks ago was packed with information examples.
[58:36] A very detailed scope, clear in the mission in most eloquent.
[58:42] They set it a plethora of examples and awards and credentials.
[58:46] and include design standards, I like them the best, you know?
[58:55] So I liked Ken and Keith very much, and I like McKenna as well.
[59:03] It's interesting how different perspectives there are.
[59:07] When we had the interviews, I was especially impressed with Ken and Keith's approach.
[59:14] They did not come in and reiterate their resume.
[59:24] They didn't talk about all their awards that they listed when they sent in their qualifications.
[59:34] But what they did talk about was what they could do for us specifically.
[59:37] and they provided this packet with a bunch of information to take home, to read that, again,
[59:46] talked about what they would do for Birmingham.
[59:51] They had, very impressive,
[59:59] other-
[1:00:00] Other projects that they highlighted that they sent to us that we could go, we could look at, and we could work through the ordinances that they had previously written, whereas I didn't feel like housing offered us that the same way.
[1:00:15] When I went to look at housing,
[1:00:21] many other projects, and there were lots of them.
[1:00:25] I struggled to find very good examples that were similar to our city that did a very good presentation as kind of did in theirs.
[1:00:38] And I'll say from a canna as well,
[1:00:42] there, and why I like to them, second best,
[1:00:48] is their written work, their presentation
[1:00:51] of ordinances that they have done,
[1:00:55] or so easy to work with.
[1:00:57] And I really think that's going to be very,
[1:01:01] that's so important.
[1:01:02] When you crack one of these ordinances,
[1:01:04] you're looking for something in particular,
[1:01:06] It needs to make sense and kind of does it for sure, and McKenna does it well also.
[1:01:17] I,
[1:01:21] like Dan said, they're not reinventing anything.
[1:01:27] They're not doing what we did for the master plan rather.
[1:01:30] They're bringing all of this together and looking at the master plan and using the master plan
[1:01:39] to put our ordinance in order.
[1:01:45] So when I looked at the detail that kind of gave us,
[1:01:50] I was just really, really impressed.
[1:01:52] And even little things like,
[1:01:58] it's funny, I came back to my notes late last week
[1:02:01] and preparation for this meeting.
[1:02:02] And I pulled out all the papers and all the information
[1:02:05] that was given to us on the night of the interviews.
[1:02:07] And what I found was what I think was either three or four packets of information.
[1:02:15] Candigs and McKenna's were labeled with their letterhead on every page they gave us.
[1:02:25] And then I had a whole bunch of other information from I'm not sure which one.
[1:02:30] Where they neglected to put their name on the information they gave us at the presentation.
[1:02:35] And I found that funny because that's the kind of detail we need when we're putting together,
[1:02:41] when they're putting together the ordinance for us.
[1:02:43] But yet, it was omitted on something as simple as that.
[1:02:50] And kind of get my kind of hit the nail on the head for me.
[1:02:53] Kind of first.
[1:02:55] What kind of second?
[1:02:59] The scene?
[1:03:00] Yeah.
[1:03:01] I was surprised at how much of an impact the interviews had on me personally,
[1:03:06] just in terms of how it sort of reconfigured my preference is going in.
[1:03:12] Maybe I shouldn't have been as someone who does writing and then speaking for work,
[1:03:17] that, you know, that second part is really important.
[1:03:20] And so for me, my top two were House Yola Bean and Kennedy Keyes in that order.
[1:03:26] I was really impressed, I think, with House Yola, the team that they brought,
[1:03:31] and the creativity, I thought their answers were, especially impressive, at least to me,
[1:03:40] they did not seem canned and it was not to disparage anyone else, but it was, I think,
[1:03:44] a lot of thought had gone into a lot of those elements where some, you know, some of
[1:03:50] the other folks, you know, the, I probably could have guessed how they were going to answer the
[1:03:53] question and then it wasn't super satisfying. It was maybe a little bit surface level, but
[1:04:01] Those two, for me, far and away, they were, my preferred choices.
[1:04:08] And then in terms of picking between the two, obviously, the group thought, but I think staff,
[1:04:16] their input cannot be underestimated, because they're going to do so much of the heavy lifting.
[1:04:22] Stuart,
[1:04:27] I agree with the point made earlier that this isn't a completely, complete rewrite.
[1:04:32] This isn't like a wonderful work of fiction or anything like that.
[1:04:37] There's a lot of mechanics in this and not totally, but there's a work.
[1:04:47] And I guess to me if we always talk about his Dale, Illinois,
[1:04:53] and the fact that one of these firms is actually
[1:04:55] located there, I thought it was kind of ironic.
[1:04:58] But I guess the thing that pushes me one direction is the fact that the guy that they're going to have to work with the department,
[1:05:06] they're going to have to work with the administration, they're going to have to work with.
[1:05:10] He's kind of leaning that way, and that we already maybe have some of the framework that it work well.
[1:05:15] So I guess I'm leaning towards how to deal.
[1:05:19] Okay, I guess we got Robin to go.
[1:05:21] Yeah, well, I think you've all said some really important things.
[1:05:26] I did a bit of a deeper dive because there was so some question about delivery.
[1:05:33] What will they deliver to us and what will they be sitting here looking at at the end of
[1:05:38] this process?
[1:05:39] When you get through the gun chart, what do we have and what do we expect to see?
[1:05:45] And I went to each of them in turn and I was really incredibly impressed if you remember.
[1:05:51] I think it was Giffles, Kim and Jill said we're going to do Zoning 101 and it in H.K. the public.
[1:06:02] I wasn't looking for that, but what I did find in House of Levine was at the very end.
[1:06:08] They're going to do us like a storybook. They are suggesting that they will put together a sort of what's the word they use.
[1:06:17] It's a story map, and I'm sorry, a story map about how they got to their conclusion, and they would give this to all participants, put it on the website,
[1:06:30] explain the speeches that were taken to reach the final document that we would then take to the recommend to the commission to adopt.
[1:06:39] I thought that was pretty interesting, because I thought it keeps the engagement process
[1:06:45] not just at the beginning, but through the process and up until the very end.
[1:06:51] So that was one thing that I really liked.
[1:06:54] I was very impressed by their conversations, how's the Levine's conversation and writing
[1:07:01] about GIS because that is the basis. That's platform a bit on which all of our work is now
[1:07:09] done, all of it. And if it doesn't fit to that, then things are tricky. And I think the
[1:07:16] persuaded me that they would work with the staff and with other takes in the city to make sure
[1:07:24] their production fits with the platforms that we've got here and I think that's
[1:07:30] Twerbly, tarbly important. I know it's not what we want to have driving this process, but like, you know, driving developments like that were on the basis of parking, just not the most important thing, but it's very important.
[1:07:45] Seusame a GIS. It is unbelievably important as to what we do and how we see it and how we collect our data, and it's only going to continue.
[1:07:57] Ddim musfair o brith yw i ddim hyn o bryr i'r gwodu'r cylm o'n fy'r hyn o'n yw hiadio'l gwis o'r hyn o'r'r o'rfeniw.
[1:08:07] Ddim hyn yw am Rhylnydd.
[1:08:08] Confirgod,ower chydydd, wryger Mae hollb Roswa.
[1:08:10] Y ddymdymboro,au dofia ddim.
[1:08:16] Wraithney.
[1:08:17] Lwyddwyfyd.
[1:08:18] Wellay, bod from zryd拉, mae'r!
[1:08:18] Mynedae, a nad f�oldd Sidness东, I mydule.
[1:08:21] Dwi'n cyfíreh mymd buriarchutedd bydd мы gadamente.
[1:08:27] Chodrhead o ei, oedd bet yverdd.
[1:08:30] I ffad yw'n yw am'r gweld ydhyd ydym nhw nifer.
[1:08:32] On, yded rhan yw'n cod yn ôreth.
[1:08:36] Fyl am y'n i ddo'r beth.
[1:08:38] P tiny o'r rhan ys ffodol.
[1:08:41] Rwyfin yr roedd o'r r弁raeth.
[1:08:42] Felly o'r bitbonyw y o'r yddo'r rodw o'r rodw, o'r rhan.
[1:08:45] No, wrth ydym yn byl am hewn cthel yn y trwyfod yn defiw yw'r.
[1:08:48] Eed o'r rhan.
[1:08:52] Dy inverl mae'n gwas yn heid a iln gerwl dddraff y스�wf bod yn yn yr famsyfddraff
[1:08:57] ar pyda'r yання. gwas yn hun yn方i chi'n o devodd ydym when â der Eel E queddim,
[1:09:08] G Sixtydu christdy?
[1:09:11] D concret dod am弟r,ind fowedChildry.
[1:09:14] Ond coff rog fffr competency, 있�der un chwyr第nych i'n cyfleŴn.
[1:09:21] Vadind yst anodungame Schwed Cheer yda un nos,
[1:09:22] Rach-2と elétronus i geven teig?
[1:09:24] Mae dechyrid o gyferos gyfliferu me llevarakotraetraetraetraetraetraetraetraetrae
[1:09:27] Wyd cyn o ymthусeli'n cynyn i'r i'r ddyn ni'n hynny?
[1:09:35] Mae'n na â bwyd yn ydwdieth yn ymthusel, yn range eich ywydd yn нyn ni'n
[1:09:41] drwy hoprm o hynny yn de yn o ymthusel?
[1:09:41] Ac m�ie cymdys mwybion yn gallwneud gyda unon
[1:09:44] a'r wastig iawn.
[1:09:46] Д wynsguiddag, bydd y oedd yn ylwneud rheumd i Youtube bob wneud y nerf yn ym'r
[1:09:49] ddyn nhw nhw.
[1:09:52] An mynd yn ydyl am ydyl ei mwybion yn yr'r amdiol based o'r amdiol ydynnyw i'r amdiol
[1:09:57] a'r amdiol amdiol ydyl y mae'n bydd yda yn myndw i'r amdiol y amdiol
[1:09:59] i'r amdiol yleon ar ymr yda yw ydyl ei amdiol
[1:10:01] a myndw i'r amdiol yw ydyl ynydyl all i'r anig yma,
[1:10:08] Dys o ddaedd sydd betweith y swywtio'r gallu fod yn y dayn o'r galer ddawn o gwarf gynewn mae'r ydyfyd i chi'n
[1:10:10] amraen ddyfyd, a ymfd, amrwawn, yda'r gallu si'r amraen弟, boedan, i gwirr yna ynd yma hynau ddi anblod i ddoedd sydd
[1:10:20] hyn un nhw dda bod yma'rol ywyr yma, boedan, ddi eich a amraen i ddawn o ddawn i hodau sa gofad o ddym yna'r gallu.
[1:10:25] i y yw'r i'w hynny ffrysu.
[1:10:28] O, o'n dill.
[1:10:30] Ond ydy'r yw mynd gweithol i'r gweithol.
[1:10:32] O'r chael.
[1:10:33] Dill ein yr yw hynny rweithol i fod yn yw mynd,
[1:10:36] yn yw roedddau, uhr.
[1:10:38] O'r rwrd â'r llwydd, fy yw dydd.
[1:10:40] Swy yw rydd, yw roedd.
[1:10:41] O'r yw hynny rwy, y ydir, yd ni'r cym, o'r rwyth.
[1:10:43] O'r rwyth, no.
[1:10:46] O'r rwyth, o i'r rwyth.
[1:10:54] O'r rwyth.
[1:10:55] dduwfys, y a'wng o'r gweithon. Std, 2yr h i y tu gwilwydd, y Finneid a'r hlwl.
[1:11:01] Nos, o'r gaithonwr, o'r gweithonwr, o'r wr, o'r gweithonwr, o'r gweithonwr, y fy niend synnu'r gyda,
[1:11:08] yfwr, yw o'rgynd yw'r dduwfys, yw a'r deemthai, o'r ywr gweithonwr, y fydd o'rewl.
[1:11:09] Ond i fyddion yn'r dduwfysu. Dddddych a'r dduwfr, ych yn gyms eichu, ych yn ychegd ein,
[1:11:20] Sna'n fellowng wrth gwneud yn de i'n womwl mae'n pflotdyn nhw'n ymth웅n, fell mae'n gwneud yna hynna hynd.
[1:11:23] Yn yn nhw'n fwyr yn pflotdyn ymthu'n cydrwriaeth twy un bod eich gatwy, ar yw'n hynna'n
[1:11:35] thru niwr gwneud gynnworth.
[1:11:37] Annywchau yn ddim yw hyntywr, ddim'r ffrwriaeth leid yn yna'na ffrw 1a chod,
[1:11:42] Moetol chodau, bryd dwi'n mflesgu.
[1:11:44] Am ni'n ffrwr, misfifwyn ymthu'n ynu laid nwydd.
[1:12:19] neu, a e yn ni fydd B
[1:12:47] Mae'r defyryd
[1:12:50] di死oda yn rhoi pferdy Narkwana atnyd bod yn cael a ddim atng 열심히 r Boston Maenry sinu'l
[1:13:20] D
[1:13:21] o fydd, puflinod yn yn chael'w hynnych無,
[1:13:26] ar y hyn noble ei o fydd o fy aun llad ialledr,
[1:13:29] a condol ryd eu aun o wy Dieselcon i business,
[1:13:32] yn y dywch o'r gwneudau, yn y ddim facku aryd o gyfer ymknydd ymmerchyn ayrthyn ymknydd ayrthyn y
[1:13:44] un ynedd rydym yn atstdynnaeth o'r ryddyl iawn ac y gwyfl, rhai ymffdwl ayrthyn gonaethau,
[1:13:51] amthomew'r gwneud y fforddad ymwydd yn ddymnydd ayrthyn gwydthyn, ayrthyn yw drwyfda
[1:14:04] pda hynnas yn öwynddor hynna'ill yn dla'ydpf
[1:14:08] Dyka'u mynd efryl sydd yn bod neth'ch yn o'r yn ôn i'r dlwy
[1:14:10] ddwy new o'r ddwy n yr ywydwchcilu, fingers o fnw'世?
[1:14:16] dwy奴iddulously ziwty, o gw i llwynch'u y byr
[1:14:18] ynnod cairau🤩
[1:14:19] Stead mwythllau.
[1:14:19] Fyyrdbeil Grndd i cael byd y gallan o se'w
[1:14:23] Da' gwydwichude deen �ed Fyyrd yn d Andyint
[1:14:25] Westman도 djad whoffyl I fymf Seher wasrwd
[1:14:28] a nu'n gwyünst i'r wedi'n bod tefer unedio dr'nd fwyl
[1:14:58] Diapyr.
[1:15:00] Again, I'm bored and returned to the great state of Michigan where he was born.
[1:15:06] And I thought that was a commitment that
[1:15:12] was important to me. I didn't see that same level of commitment
[1:15:15] from candick from the top of the house. Maybe it would show particularly in light of the person
[1:15:22] who would be in charge as busy as that person is, but I thought that was important and
[1:15:27] So I'm taking a poll here and I think the only one who's out of sorts with this is you.
[1:15:37] I'm not really out of sorts with it.
[1:15:39] I mean, I think they're all fantastic.
[1:15:44] I don't think we have a bad choice here.
[1:15:47] And I think the thing that I think I'd like to see it go to
[1:15:51] kind of, but, you know, I think staff's opinion is especially important
[1:15:58] because you guys are going to be doing all the work.
[1:16:03] And so, you know, as far as I'm concerned, you'll have a
[1:16:08] Canadian ambassador.
[1:16:09] Oh, wow.
[1:16:10] Oh, I think here tonight.
[1:16:11] Okay, well, I think all four, I repeat.
[1:16:15] But I think all four submissions, it was important for me to get such outstanding submissions.
[1:16:27] I think with any of the four, we could have gotten this done, frankly.
[1:16:33] So it's a hard choice.
[1:16:36] I know our two local entities are probably going to be disappointed,
[1:16:42] But they're both terrific companies and at least one of them has been significantly involved in Birmingham for the last few years.
[1:16:52] So I think there's one benefit when we do this every 30 or 40 years.
[1:16:59] I don't know how long it's been since we've done the zoning redo.
[1:17:05] Maybe a little national perspective would be good not that the two local entities don't have
[1:17:11] prospective multi-state, but certainly the two out-of-state entities have much more
[1:17:18] national experience.
[1:17:21] It's just a fact that maybe size or length of service concentration in this area.
[1:17:28] So I guess I would entertain a motion unless there's any reason for the discussion.
[1:17:42] There is a suggestion.
[1:17:43] Resolution is there not?
[1:17:45] It's on page 20 on page 40.
[1:17:48] And that the Planning Board recommends the city commission select blank for purposes of performing
[1:17:55] comprehensive zoning ordinance update.
[1:17:57] So I would entertain a motion as to the recommendation of the State Commission of an entity.
[1:18:06] Is there a motion?
[1:18:07] Looking for where it is.
[1:18:11] Page four of the budget.
[1:18:13] Page four.
[1:18:15] Would somebody like to make a motion?
[1:18:17] Go ahead.
[1:18:17] Go ahead.
[1:18:18] Sure.
[1:18:18] I'll make the motion.
[1:18:20] Go.
[1:18:23] Go.
[1:18:24] Find where it recommends that the City Commission select how Zia Levine for the purposes
[1:18:29] performing comprehensive zoning ordinance update for the city in accordance with
[1:18:32] the specifications contained within how Zilla rings response to the city's
[1:18:37] request for proposals.
[1:18:39] Is there a second to that motion?
[1:18:45] No second?
[1:18:46] No second?
[1:18:46] Sure.
[1:18:47] The second for my question for him.
[1:18:50] I thought I'd lost control of the group here.
[1:18:53] There you go.
[1:18:54] I have.
[1:18:54] I have.
[1:18:55] It's a fun time to time to lost control this.
[1:18:57] So comments on the motion for we and to the public and he comments from the public on the motion
[1:19:08] I don't see any what was that
[1:19:16] Somebody's phone it was mine
[1:19:18] I don't see the public on so I will call the question let's do a roll call vote
[1:19:28] How was he all of being high?
[1:19:32] Robin Boyle.
[1:19:34] Stuart Jeffrey.
[1:19:37] England Sheriff.
[1:19:37] Oh, you.
[1:19:39] Do you know where we'll go?
[1:19:41] Yes.
[1:19:43] Brian Williams.
[1:19:45] Does he remember?
[1:19:46] Yes.
[1:19:49] Okay.
[1:19:50] I think that concludes that item.
[1:19:53] I want to thank the board personally for all the hard work that's going into this.
[1:19:58] I know some of you have spent a lot of time looking into this and I think ultimately, as a result of that,
[1:20:06] we will be better prepared for the next phase coming up.
[1:20:11] We won't be approaching this blindly.
[1:20:19] Communications item L2, any?
[1:20:22] You want to do project updates, Ernene?
[1:20:25] I don't really have anything to comment on that. I do have two things that I could tell you about real quick in this section.
[1:20:35] One being our next meeting on January 12th.
[1:20:39] Yeah, it's first meeting in the month typically slated for story session type stuff.
[1:20:44] I don't expect that we'll have anything.
[1:20:48] But, including this because I've got to get this to the commission.
[1:20:51] But, there are some things full ground in their background with applications that I was curious
[1:20:58] if I needed.
[1:21:00] So, I don't think plan now, but if I do end up needing it, would you all be willing to consider
[1:21:05] sidelines on that day and amend the rules of procedure in the event that we needed?
[1:21:10] Yes, and I think, I don't know when you plan to go to the city commission,
[1:21:18] I would hope
[1:21:19] January 12th.
[1:21:21] I think I said that.
[1:21:22] Yeah, I was going to confirm the date.
[1:21:24] And what do you envision the start of the process being with assuming the city
[1:21:30] commission agrees?
[1:21:31] I'll say all the mean.
[1:21:32] Would there be an initial meeting with us?
[1:21:35] Is that the way you would say?
[1:21:36] I would also say certainly.
[1:21:37] Of course, it'll start internally with all the tables setting stuff.
[1:21:40] But yeah, we would bring that this year.
[1:21:42] Well, when do you expect the city commission to look at this?
[1:21:47] Well, we'd love to do it on January 12th.
[1:21:48] that's the correct date and forgive me the planning board is 14 so we get back to that but
[1:21:53] January 12 so we could we could suspend all of our rules of procedure for January and
[1:22:00] have also in in the second meeting in January if they're selected if you'd like and if it
[1:22:06] works for everybody involved yeah well
[1:22:12] we get into this spring people leave and go to warmer
[1:22:16] So I think the earlier we get them in here and the quicker we get started. I would be more comfortable.
[1:22:22] So we can get them in at the end of January if the city commission agrees with us then let's shift for that.
[1:22:28] In that case,
[1:22:30] Let me make a suggestion and that society make a motion that we have combined meetings both in the
[1:22:35] first and second meetings in January, which gives us the flexibility to consider both the
[1:22:41] study session and site plans.
[1:22:44] At both meetings, I would be super helpful.
[1:22:47] Is there a motion?
[1:22:50] The motion maker, Daniel Share.
[1:22:52] I'll move that the rules of procedure for the month, the two meetings in January,
[1:22:57] 2026, be suspended such that either or both can be a meeting that considers both site plans and
[1:23:05] study sessions.
[1:23:06] Study sessions.
[1:23:07] Thank you.
[1:23:08] Is there second to the motion?
[1:23:11] All those in favour?
[1:23:12] Signify by saying aye.
[1:23:14] Aye.
[1:23:14] Any descent?
[1:23:16] Okay.
[1:23:17] So that was a number one, if I may.
[1:23:20] Number two.
[1:23:21] I just wanted to tell you that we have a new employee.
[1:23:24] Lauren Milia sitting there in the front row there is our new planning intern. You start at what three weeks ago four weeks ago
[1:23:34] It's some on birthday. She started on my birthday. I got myself an intern as a
[1:23:39] That was your gift
[1:23:42] Urban planning master student
[1:23:45] Where happy to have her you'll see her more. I just wanted to show your face. No, no, nothing
[1:23:56] I recorded that well, yeah, yeah, we're bringing that all that's worth here.
[1:24:01] Yeah, I know you are, well, they can great contributor to the state.
[1:24:06] No question about it. You'll see Lawrence face more as well as summer and the new year.
[1:24:12] Okay. Well, thank all of you. This is our last meeting of the year.
[1:24:17] I think Scott will be in touch with respect to, yeah, lunch and plans.
[1:24:22] I'm not going to assume that role for him.
[1:24:24] I've done everything else in the last three months before.
[1:24:27] So he can plan the lunch.
[1:24:29] But I want to thank the planning department.
[1:24:32] Again, I stated that the start of the meeting, I think,
[1:24:35] Kudos to all of you.
[1:24:37] We wouldn't be embarking on this project without high confidence
[1:24:42] in your abilities to get us through it.
[1:24:45] And so happy holidays to all of you.
[1:24:50] and uh... is there any other business
[1:24:54] i could say this for the last time in twenty twenty five meat
[1:24:57] meeting a jerk