Good evening, everyone. Welcome. We will call this city council meeting for December 2,
2024 to order. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you, everyone. The clerk will take the roll.
Councilmember Swemming.
Here.
Larson.
Here.
Solia.
Here.
Newland.
Here.
Robertson.
Here.
Soraya.
Mayor Sanders.
Here.
Right.
We'll start off this evening with communications which are announcements or updates from
City Councilor's staff.
Are there any communications this evening?
All right.
Seeing none, we will go ahead and open up the open forum.
the open form is an opportunity for the public to present an issue or
concern to the city council there's a maximum of 15 minutes set aside for the
open form each presentation should be limited to no more than three minutes
if your item needs follow-up from the city we'll make sure that staff connects
with you to let you know what is being done on that issue but we want to
thank you all for coming this evening and again the open form is now open so
if you'd like to you can you're welcome to come up to the podium at
at this time.
Good evening, Dale Sprouse 1-2-880, Lexington Avenue.
Thank you Mayor, City Council and City staff.
This is a crucial moment in our community's future.
I stand before you as a voice of a community
fueled by determination,
as we can continue to watch and confront the pressing
issues that threaten the shape and the very fabric
of our community.
A proposed department complex
on a commercially zoned quarter
of 125th in Lexington Avenue.
Let me be perfectly clear.
We do not want the department complex.
We do not want the multifamily dwellings in this area.
We have a group of residents that have come together
to voice their collective concerns
about the implications of such a development.
Yet, despite our clear stance,
it seems some council members have taken upon themselves
to speak for us, to make assumptions about our needs
and desires without truly listening to our voices.
issues. This is unacceptable.
Excuse me. Your duty as an elected representative to represent
the interest of the constituents who put you in office. Instead, we feel that that decisions
are being made to favor developers who seek the profit at the expense of our communities
yet we have witnessed the disturbing trends where developers' interests overshadow our
legitimate concerns. Our community doesn't need more apartments and needs thoughtful
planning that enhances the quality of life. We deserve transparency and respect, not backroom
deals and hasty decisions made without the proper public input.
Finally, I ask each
of you, will you be the council that listens? Will you stand with us and advocate for our
vision for this community? Let us make a stand against inappropriate departments,
developments that threaten our community's connection, and let us be a community that
is indeed heard and representative and respected. Thank you.
Thank you. Is there anyone else here this evening that wishes to participate in the open forum?
All right. Seeing none, we're going to move along in the agenda. Next on the agenda is
approval of the Consent Agenda. All items listed under the Consent Agenda are considered
to be routine in nature. It will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion
of an item on the consent agenda unless a council member citizen so requests in which
case that item will be removed from the consent agenda and placed in its normal sequence on
that agenda. Members of motion please. Move it. Move a council member Newland. Second.
Second by council member Missoulia. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I would like to pull item 8-9
if I could please. Thank you. 8-9 is pulled. Any other questions or
discussion to the consent agenda. Seeing and hearing none, all those in favor of approval
of the consent agenda, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails. Next item on the
agenda is agenda item 8.9. Councilmember Robertson. Thank you, Mayor. So I have a couple of questions
regarding this item, Dan. I don't know if you are the expert in this or Jerome might
be. I had a couple of questions just regarding the need for the proposal on
this in particular item. I was under the impression that the work and maintenance
on the wetland sanctuary especially the banking was an annual requirement. Has
there not been annual maintenance on what do we call it branch seven or in
in the wetland sanctuary to ensure
that those banking credits are available.
So I think if I'm reading the packet correctly,
the last time that this was looked at through a contractor,
they restored 39 out of the possible 81 credits.
So I guess I'm curious why the full 81 credits
weren't realized.
Part of the, I think inception of the referendum
that went out to voters on this open space
was the hopes of you know long-term creation of that wetland bank and I
think the total realization at the time was about seven million dollars
give or take and those dollars were to kind of imperfectuity fund you know any
buildings on site which I know was in the the CIP future plan for the open
space and trails and things like that and maintenance so I guess I'm just
curious if there has been ongoing maintenance or if there has been no
maintenance I guess. Why there's been no maintenance? Mayor Sanders, Council Member
Robertson. The original contract we had with an environmental firm ended about
a year and a half ago, two years ago. They decided they didn't want to renew
their contract and so we have with new employees coming through tried to figure
out where that contract was left, what maintenance was done,
what maintenance
to hold the credits and then what needed to be done in the wetland to realize the remaining credits
available to us. Once we've got that captured we have put this proposal out to start a new contract
which is before you this evening which would then continue the monitoring and maintenance
along with proposing how we would capture the remaining credits that are left on site
to realize the plan as it was envisioned.
Council Member Robertson.
So if I'm understanding correctly,
it's not just a matter of maintenance.
I'm assuming since there's been a gap in maintenance
that the restoration process with the Army Corps
and realizing those credits kind of has to start over,
is that accurate?
Mayor Sanders, Council Member Robertson,
we do not have to start over
but we do have to re-engage in the process.
And you're correct, there was no maintenance done
for those two years that we did not have a consultant on board.
Okay, maybe a follow-up conversation after the fact
since I don't want to dominate council time would be appropriate.
Is that okay? Do you want me to talk to you or do you want me?
Is Jerome the contact person for the wetland management?
Mayor Sanders, councilmember Robertson, I'd be happy to answer your questions.
Wonderful. Thank you, Dan.
In the meantime, councilmember Robertson, would you like to make a motion on 8-9?
Yeah, I'll move approval of item eight nine sir second second any questions or
discussion all right all those in favor of approval please say aye aye opposed
motion prevails next up we have public hearings we have two items this evening
for public hearings the first one is agenda item 9.1 we'll go to director
Schoelender thank you mayor and council the city received a petition on
October 25th from the property owner at 2663 Quill Creek Court. The owner is
requesting the vacation of a 54 foot by 10 foot portion of the existing
drainage and utility easement that was created with the original plat. The
property owner did purchase Outlaw B as you can see on your parcel here from
the developer and has requested to combine Outlaw B with the existing Lot 7,
therefore no longer needing the drainage and utility easement that is
hatched out there 54 by 10. Staff has reviewed this request and agrees with
the vacation. The property owner will be required to combine Outlaw B with Lot 7
and we are in favor of that.
So tonight we were asking council
to conduct a public hearing
and take testimony based on that.
And then by motion,
adopt the resolution found in your packet,
which would vacate that portion of the easement.
And with that, I would stand for any questions.
Thank you, Director Schlunder, appreciate that.
At this point in time,
I will open a public hearing on agenda item 9.1.
Is there anyone here this evening
that wishes to participate in the public hearing.
Provide any comments on agenda item 9.1.
And I'll ask one more time,
is there anyone here this evening
wishing to participate in the public hearing
on agenda item 9.1?
Okay, seeing no one,
I will close the public hearing on 9.1.
Members in motion please.
Move by Council Member Robertson.
Second.
Second by Council Member Ms. Solia.
Members, any questions or discussion?
Seeing and hearing none.
All those in favor of that motion, please say aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
That motion prevails.
Next public hearing we have is agenda item 9.2
and with that we will go to our city clerk.
Thank you mayor and council.
Before you is a motion to approve renewal
of currency exchange licenses.
Staff received applications
from the Minnesota department of commerce
who actually issues the license
for our two currency exchange locations
in Blaine, Al's check cashing and your exchange.
The renewal requests are forwarded.
The Blaine Police Department for review,
no items of concern were raised.
What is required is a public hearing,
and then after testimony by motion,
approve these renewals that will be forwarded
onto Minnesota Department of Commerce.
With that, I'll stand for questions.
Excellent. Thank you very much for that presentation.
At this point in time,
I will open the public hearing on agenda item 9.2.
Is there anyone here this evening that wishes to speak
or provide commentary on agenda item 9.2.
Again, one final call, anyone here this evening
that wishes to participate in the public hearing on 9.2?
All right, seeing no one rush up,
we will close the public hearing on 9.2.
Members in motion, please.
Move it.
Moved by Council Member Robertson,
seconded by Council Member Newland.
Any questions or discussion on 9.2?
Seeing and hearing none,
all those in favor of that motion, please say aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Motion prevails.
Next section, the agenda is development business.
First item in that section is agenda item 10.1.
We'll go to Planner-Sulman.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, City Council.
And what we have before you tonight
is a conditional use permit request
to allow the continued operations of the existing mosque
at 12175 Aberdeen Street, Northeast.
The property is zoned B3 regional commercial
and properties to the North and West
of the subject site are also zoned B3.
The east is R1 single family and then in the B3 district a place of worship
requires a conditional use permit. A little bit of history on the site. In
2007 a conditional use permit was approved for a charter school in this
location that has since expired because they have vacated for more than a year.
In 2017 the MAS applied for remodeling permit. Condition use
permit was required at that time but was not applied for. At that time
Planning Department wasn't reviewing tenant finishes, so it's unclear if that was communicated
to the applicant or not.
In fall of 2023, various staff members met with MAS to discuss traffic concerns and
the outstanding conditional use permit.
They indicated they were looking in for ways to remedy the parking and traffic issues
and worked on a plan, and once they had that set, they were going to apply for the
conditional use permit, and they have done that.
So the conditional use permit is to continue the operations as a mosque.
They offer daily pre-services,
educational programs and community programs at this location.
It is also a polling place for us.
No additions or remodeling their proposed at this time.
They do offer four services
and they are staggering services
to try to alleviate traffic and parking.
They did have three services and now they have four.
So you can see that on the slide.
What that breakup is
and they have about 100, 250 attendees in those services.
For the parking analysis, based on the full capacity that's determined by our fire marshal,
375 parking stalls are required.
The site has 148 stalls, so they are short 227 stalls based on that calculation.
The applicant has indicated that their capacity is 700, and that would require 175 stalls,
which would only be short 27 stalls.
So, if that capacity is what they say that they are at, staff is suggesting adding a condition
to Catholic capacity at 700, and that would need to be posted on site just like the other
capacity is.
Belain police officers have been hired to direct traffic on Fridays and assist with
traffic flow and parking.
a traffic mitigation plan.
Should be submitted and approved by the city. That is a condition of approval.
And some things that should be explored in that traffic plan is one-way traffic flow, off-site parking.
There should be a shuttle service provided if they do provide off-site parking.
That is something that we have done for other businesses that have different types of events and overflow parking
that if they do provide off-site, that they need to provide a shuttle service.
If they do have offsite parking with any of the neighboring properties, they need to provide an agreement to the city so that we can see that that is in full effect.
That would also be a condition of approval.
We received one public comment in support. The Planning Commission held their public hearing on November 12th and they recommended approval with the conditions that are listed in the staff report.
That concludes my presentation.
Thank you very much, Banner Selma. I appreciate the presentation. Members of Motion, please
on 10.1.
Moved by Council Member Fleming. Seconded by Council Member Robertson. Questions
and discussion?
Council Member Newland. Thank you, Mayor. I'm curious about the timing
where there's a parking proposal that needs to be reviewed and required by the 31st
of January, yet we are looking for approval today, tonight.
I'm wondering how we can tie the approval
of the parking plan with the overall approval,
such that do we delay this until we have seen
the parking proposal that's due on the 25th,
or it seems like one, what we're doing now
is getting in front of the other.
They need to go hand in hand.
where having driven that frontage road or the road during services, it can become gridlocked.
There is a real challenge there with having traffic move through.
So I would like to see the two tied together.
So I don't have a problem with the use at all.
I think that the use is perfectly fine.
It's a matter of how do we deal with the realities of traffic and parking.
And I'm a little bit stuck on where we go from here with with that
Planner Selman
I'm thinking Mr. Mayor customer Newland
That is a condition of the conditional use permit right now
Is the way that set has it written if you wanted to have them go in hand-in-hand
You would want to postpone your action tonight and have them submit that prior to you taking action on the condition use permit
Council Member Newland.
Thank you, Sheila.
And I guess that's the inclination as to how it feels like they should be tied together.
I would be interested in hearing what others have to say as well.
But that's my initial thought, to be honest.
Council Member Larson.
Excuse me.
That poses a question.
So, Sheila, is there other businesses that we have as examples where this has happened?
Planner Salmon.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
When you say other, as an example where we've had overflow parking and required mitigation plans or what?
Yeah, or where we have requested accepting before that has been figured out.
Anything similar to this?
Planner Salmon.
I think we have done it on some variances.
Like they had need to install a fence within a certain time frame.
Kind of drawing a blank right now.
But I know that we have done some other conditions where you have you get this approved
But you need to execute execute certain things before
Typically, it's before you can occupy that space is a lot of times what it is but in this case they're already in the space
Other I can't pull the permit until the cup is
Approved and then I can get approved for the permit and the permit will give the seal
Councilmember Fleming
Thank you mayor
Yeah, so I do agree with you in this case, and as I went through this, I don't have a
problem with the use.
I think it's great.
It's needed up here.
Obviously, it's needed up here because you guys are at four services, right?
And that's what a lot of churches do.
And so I don't have a problem with the use, but I do, you know, in looking through the
comments from the police department, and I do drive that area as well.
I think there was inconsistencies in like using barricades to close the lot when it's full.
I think some of the other things that are bothering me is that it is affecting the businesses in that area.
And a thoroughfare should not do that. It should be flowing.
And the other thing is the public safety issue with no crosswalk.
So even if they do have parking agreements, we still have that issue we have to look at
because people are crossing without a crosswalk, and even what was it, despite the officer's
attempts to plan for traffic exiting the lot, there's still backups, congestion and disruption
to local businesses continue, and there's no way to empty the lot without these issues.
So that is a major concern for that area, and I think that needs to be addressed before
we can pass this.
Now, I don't want to deny it tonight because I really want you guys to be able to address
these things but come back with the information that we need and you know you even talked about
possibly a shuttle system which I think is phenomenal I'm not sure how you can make it work but
I think that's important before we pass this so that's those are my opinions
Council Member Ms. Solia. Thank you Mr. Mayor. So I guess just a couple questions that I had
just as you're presenting this Sheila so they haven't had a conditional use permit since 2007
Is that correct?
Planner Selman?
Council Member Mosulie, 2007, a condition use permit was in effect for a charter school,
and they have vacated that, so that condition use permit has expired,
so there's not an existing condition use permit on the property at this time.
I mean, is that normal? Does that happen pretty often, or is that...
I mean, I guess that just seems like a really...
I mean, it's almost 20 years now.
The mosque has been operation operationals since 2017 so seven years
Got it so the mosque
Mosque in 2017 started operating, but they didn't need a conditional use permit
Planner Salman. Mr. Mayor councilmember Solia. They did need a condition use permit in 2017
It was not applied for that time in 2017. They applied for a remodeling permit
planning did not review remodeling permits at that time so it's unclear to
me or my staff on if that was communicated to them or how that happened
it's not clear in the record that we have they did it get their correct
permits for buildings you know for building perspective but just not
from a zoning perspective. Councilmember Miscellia. Thank you. Mr.
Mariff. The applicant would like to speak. Sure. Come on up please
introduce yourself for the record.
Mr. Mayor, Council members, thank you very
much for hearing me out. Asad Zaman, Executive Director of the Muslim
American Society of Minnesota. My address is 12175 Iberdeen Street, Blaine,
Minnesota 55449. First of all, I want to thank all of you for being such a
wonderful city for all these Muslim community to migrate to and live
here, many of whom have made this their home for the last 20 years.
So in 2007, a charter school applied for and received a conditional use permit to do education
and have a prayer room in the building.
That school vacated the premises in 2011, and the Muslim American Society immediately
there after occupied it and started doing prayer services in that prayer room
and education services. So that's why we thought this was a continuing use of
the same CUB and we didn't see a problem with it and to 2017 we wanted to do
some remodeling and we applied for it and everything seemed fine. And then
in 2023 I made a new friend and she and I know I don't mean this
archaistically she has been she has been very very helpful and we've been
talking about how to mitigate the traffic concerns so you have all heard
about the 10 commandments right so there's a secret or a little known
11th commandment that says your mosque or house of worship shall never grow
larger than your parking lot. So we fell afoul of that commandment. And that's why we became
friends.
City staff and the police department and the planning department have actually
been very helpful. They have come up with many good ideas. And over the past few months
we have attempted a whole bunch of mitigation strategies, some of which work, some of
which are not particularly useful.
So the first of it was we switched to four prayer services.
We are the only mosque in the entire state of Minnesota
that has four prayer services.
And that is because Blaine is such a nice place to be,
to call home.
Also you have approved two other mosques,
so hopefully at some point this will come down.
The second we have done is we started hiring
police officers to manage traffic.
A third thing we started doing for purposes of preventing double parking is to close the
lot when the lot is full.
The fourth mitigation strategy we have done is we have made an arrangement with the church
so that we can park overflow cars there and we actually have a shuttle.
And I'm hoping if the mayor scolds the people, they will actually start using the
Because the people have a tendency to want to, you know, we Americans, we love our individual
freedoms so everybody wants to come in their own car and do their own thing.
So if you actually, like, tell the people that, listen, you guys have to use the shuttle,
that will go a long way.
So please do that.
Fifth, actually this last Friday I gave the sermon, I usually don't give the sermons
here, Imam Waleed does, but it was my turn on the schedule, so I came and one of the things
we instituted is on Fridays, only right turns for exiting. So people are not allowed to take
a left turn, they must take a right turn. We had a 99% compliance with this new idea,
and I think, but I've not yet had a chance to sit with the police officers to understand,
But my understanding is that it took on average five to six minutes to empty the parking lot.
Usually it takes about 15 to 20 minutes.
You know, the left turns on average take four, five times more time than a right turn.
So those are some of the mitigation strategies we have talked about.
One of the other ideas that was discussed was the need to create one of the two entrances into the parking lot to be an enter only
and the other to be an exit only, so one-way traffic.
So this is the only one thing we have not implemented so far.
So in case you are wondering what would be part of the traffic mitigation plan, it would
probably be some variation of what I have just described.
The only one thing in it that has not yet been implemented is the one-way traffic.
Another idea that has been talked about is a part of the parking lot might become
for those who do carpooling only so as to encourage more carpooling.
But one of the things, because of the four prayer slots we have had,
the mosque does not actually become full.
Even under the reduced capacity, it would be 700.
We don't even come near to 700.
At its highest, we're hitting 250.
So the entire downstairs is empty because it's the 11th commandment.
We are not allowed to grow faster than our parking lot.
So that's where we are at.
Again, if you feel the need to delay it, I guess we can come back in January or all
the items that she has mentioned for the traffic plan are basically these six items.
And we don't necessarily have an objection to any of them.
I hope that's useful.
It's very helpful.
Thank you.
Council Member Fleming?
I just have a quick question.
So how long is your service and how much time is in between when the service ends to
when the next service starts?
We'll see when Imam Wuli does the service, it's 15 minutes.
But last week, I did it this Friday, it was 20 minutes, we got many complaints.
Yeah,
as you can see, we try to stagger it enough.
In the winter, it's a little harder because the prayer times are squeezed because of the
short days.
In the summer times, it's not an issue.
Council Member Misolia.
Thank you for the history.
I appreciate that.
That's good information.
The other question that I have for Sheila is just this whole concept of going, basing
the capacity on the applicant saying there are 700 people capacity versus the fire marshal.
Is that typical? That seems a little different to me. When we were there, it's a pretty
big area. I guess I have a little bit of a concern. I get that we can post it and
say 0 700 but then you know how how does that actually look in reality and is that typical
have we done that before or I mean in my understanding we would go by what the fire marshal would
say so.
Yep.
Council member Miss Aliah. We did that for the event center that was going to go in where 125
And we did cap the capacity there. And it would be the same way if the capacity is posted, it has to be followed and the fire department and fire marshal can enforce that.
Okay, thank you. And that's the event center that we ended up not approving because of parking, right?
Well, we did end up approving it with some, a lot of conditions, but they ended up not going in.
Okay, got it. Correct. Okay, so we have done that before. That's not anything new precedent.
And then who would be in charge of enforcing that?
The fire marshal?
The fire marshal.
OK.
Thank you.
May I say one more thing?
So from a fire marshal perspective,
the fire marshal is asking the question,
if we had 1,500 human bodies in a room and a fire broke out,
could they exit by a certain minimum time?
And using their complicated calculations,
that number is 1,500.
The planning department is asking, well, from a parking perspective, you clearly don't have
parking spots for 1,500 people, so we can give you 700.
But there is a much more practical reality.
The practical reality is I have 150 parking spots in that lot.
When that 150 parking spots are filled, nothing else matters.
You don't need a fire marshal that just people can't get in, right?
So this is not an issue.
Realistically, we are not hitting anywhere near 700.
We're hitting 250 and that's it.
Thank you.
Council Member Fleming.
Yeah, I just, I don't know if you can address, like,
Since they started doing some of the mitigation,
what the progress has been as far as
what the police department is experiencing,
has it gotten better?
Is it still gridlocking, affecting the businesses?
Just curious if anybody can speak on that.
Planner Selman or Chief Bidany?
I would defer to the Chief, please.
Okay.
Thank you, Mayor and Mayor of the Council
and Council Member Fleming.
So we have seen some improvements.
There are still some things that persist.
We have a very good working relationship and we've had a lot of meetings to try to work through some things and that's helped quite a bit
I think some of the things that have yet to play out are having the one way in one way out and two entrances and then the shuttle
I think I like the shuttle concept the kicker is getting people to use it
You know because everybody wants kind of like what we see at schools now
You know schools were designed for buses. Well, so many people do parent pickup now that it's that's moot
And so I think the biggest kicker is working together
on how we can get people to use that then, too.
Because obviously we want to keep traffic flowing in and out.
We want to make sure we have emergency vehicle access.
If there is a fire or a medical and we
have to get an ambulance in or things like that,
we want to make sure people are safe.
But then we also want to make sure
we don't have people running across Aberdeen trying
to, you know, from other businesses.
I think one of the things that has improved
is some of the parking and area businesses and I think that's some of them
started towing cars and it wasn't certainly the mosque was trying to
educate their members to make sure they're not parking there but some
people are going to do it anyway and I think some of those businesses started
towing cars and that helped out with some of that. I think to see unfortunately
for the people who got told maybe but that certainly has probably helped. I
I think some of the things we have not yet to see play out
are some of those other additional measures
that we might be able to look at to try to do that.
Increased in the number of services
and the time between services has helped as well.
So it certainly hasn't been for a lack of effort
even though there are some things that are persisting.
I think working together between planning
and the mosque and ourselves has really made
a lot of progress and I think we're maybe close,
but a little bit more work might help a little bit.
So Council Member Robertson.
Thank you, Mayor.
To my colleague's point, in first,
thank you for all being here.
It's actually been very lovely.
Your community has been here quite a bit.
So it's wonderful to see you again.
I know that the mosque is kind of a staple
in that neighborhood.
And we know that you're good neighbors
and we want you to continue to be good neighbors
and I know that's your intention as well.
I do think that if there's an openness to it,
I think a solid traffic mitigation plan before approval of the conditional use permit
Would would make the most sense because
Sir hold on one second. Okay. Do things in an orderly fashion year. Are you a part of the applicant?
For the few edges David early perfect introduce yourself for the record sir. Thank you. I'm David early David early enterprise
I they contact me when the issue when the issue came about the permit the first
time I did work on this building was in 17 there was never an issue with getting
a condition to use permit at that time I applied for a permit size given permits
I opened up the moss made of beer we had inspections we'd done other permits
since then, never had an issue.
And the last, I don't even know when this issue came up
with the zoning, but I think it became a problem
when the parking became a problem.
And like every city with the growth,
we have the same problem with the soccer fields.
When there's a lot of soccer games,
we get locked, we get gridlock, a lot of it.
Over here, it's a, if you went to the mosque
And you said your prayer, they're in and out in 15, 20 minutes.
This is not a gridlock for hours.
This is a five-minute gridlock four times Friday.
We're not talking two hours.
I got the stadiums here or anything like that.
It's a growing process.
They grew.
I understand it's inconvenience for a couple
of the people, probably the bank people
that want to go to the bank, access that bank on Friday's, afternoons, and all of a sudden
the road's blocked and they can't get in out fast. It is Friday afternoon and most people
want to come and go quickly, you know. When I built a couple houses over on Cloud Drive
I had the same issue with getting a kid issue used for that, but this should not,
I don't think withholding the cup is it should come under the permit this should
land under the permit for the CO of the property so you guys give permission for
it to exist and then it would be under a condition of the building department
Dan would take care of it from there on and he would do you're saying no because
Dan doesn't know because the CEO already exists. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr.
We can't condition certificate of occupancy as CEO is a certificate of occupancy and that's building co-related and that's not something that we can condition
Councilmember Robertson to finish your thank you again. I
Hope you're not receiving what I'm saying is accusatory. I'm not at all
I think you guys have always been incredible members of the community what I am hearing from our police department and from the chief
is there's some things we got to work through, and I know you guys want to help us work through
those things as well. We want to approve the permit, but I do think a locked-in traffic
mitigation plan, including some element of pedestrian safety, if we have concerns about,
you know, people crossing Aberdeen, I do think that that is important. I don't think anyone
here is against, is against what you're trying to do. I think all of us want to approve
that conditional use permit. And I have every intention of doing that, but I need to
to ensure that our public safety advocates
and our public safety team is prepared to enforce
any plans that would cause traffic backups
or issues with neighboring businesses
or pedestrians walking where they're not supposed to be,
it would be great to see what that,
in writing of some way, shape or form,
the permanent arrangement, I think it was
with Oak Park Church regarding the shuttling,
like those things I think are important for us to have.
The last thing that we wanna do,
and I know the last thing you wanna do,
is to compound an already existing issue.
I think we have some space and some willingness
to work through what some of those remnant issues are.
So I think allowing the process to play out
and PD to do its job and the mosque
and your team to do their job,
I think we all want that positive result.
And I think that's the process that needs to play out
for the conditional use permit process to be approved.
I did not make the motion for the conditional use permit.
I seconded, so in order, maybe, Attorney Loonan,
I want to make sure that we do this the right way.
Our intention is to maybe remove the motion off the floor
and allow more time for that traffic piece to be worked out.
What would be the proper language on that?
And does Council Member Fleming need to make that motion?
We're secret talking, I'm not sure what's happening.
Yeah, there's a motion on the table currently
before the Council.
It's for approval of the conditional use permit.
I guess one thing that I do want to emphasize is that the motion that is before the council
does make as a condition of use the city's approval of the traffic mitigation plan.
That's a condition for them to use it.
If the mitigation plan doesn't come forward, the permit is revoked.
And so certainly you could table it and wait for them to come jointly forward.
But as the resolution is written as staff has prepared it, the mitigation plan is a condition for them to operate.
And so operations cannot happen without the city's approval of that plan, which must occur before January 31st.
So it's already the safeguard, I think, that you're trying to protect for is already built in there,
because if there's no mitigation plan that ends up being approved by the city, then the permit is revoked.
I think that's helpful.
Attorney Luna, could you just describe in process how that mitigation plan is that
come back through as a resolution then, or how does that plan or settlement come back
to so council's aware of the formality of the process?
Mr. Mayor and Council, typically when we have those types of conditions, it's reviewed
by staff.
If you want to make a condition that council has to review it and approve it, you can
add that to the condition, but we typically have it reviewed by staff through planning,
engineering and public safety. Councilmember Fleming. Yeah, just one thought, take it,
she wanted to see what you think, is that we've already been trying some mitigation,
right, some traffic mitigation, and some work some doesn't. So to come here and say, okay,
this is what we need when we're not even sure if it's going to really work,
whereas if we do push this out and try a few things and we find out from the chief
in the police department. This was really good. This is good. This we need this and we need this
and then put that into the mitigation plan because we don't really know what's going to work because
some has some hasn't right. So councilmember Miss Olia. Thank you Mr. Mayor just out of curiosity
have you guys looked at expanding your parking lot to the south since you do have some land
there Mr. Mayor council member yes we have but that tiny sliver of land is
actually a wetland so we might be able to like squeeze another five or ten
parking spots out of it but it's not gonna be 40 we got a few of those wetlands
around here bummer other questions are the first thing we explore yeah I
will just
say I mean go ahead Councilmember Nealon thank you mayor I'm hearing that
there is strong support for continuing the operation of the mosque where it is
it's a matter of working out some of the issues that I think we're pretty
close on it's a matter of just fine-tuning it because the realities
are if the mitigation plan doesn't work and the conditional use permit is revoked. I wouldn't
want to have the police department go down there and say, all right, we're closing you down. I
mean, that's not the optics that we want for this city. So the reality is, let's finalize the
mitigation plan and make sure that it works and then come back and approve them simultaneously,
because there's a couple of areas I hear some questions on that, again, it sounds like
we're very close to being able to put this thing together.
So rather than rush through and come back and say,
now this isn't working, we're going to pull the permit,
let's do this thing right the first time.
So I don't know what the language is again,
and I'm understanding what the city attorney said
that we already have that in place,
but let's not deal with something
that isn't workable and finding that it's approved,
but then, oh, it doesn't work,
so now it's not approved, I don't,
I'm not comfortable with that one at all.
Attorney Looney.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Newell and members of Council.
So I believe if I've picked up correctly from Planner Selman, we have time under the 60-day rule if they were to table this.
That's the other consideration we have to make here.
Timing.
The 60-day rule is January 8th.
Okay. So council would, under Minnesota law, council would have to take action on this
item before January 8th or it's deemed approved without any conditions. So that's one thing
to keep in mind as we're looking at scheduling and planning. Potentially, if council was
inclined the procedural method, as I indicated now moving forward, would be to table it
and directing staff and the applicant to work on a mitigation plan and then
And the plan itself could be put in as a condition just so it's clear in the application as
to what's going on, or so we know what that mitigation plan may be.
But ultimately, if council is inclined not to adopt today to bring this back so that
that can be part of the discussion.
Discussion at the same time the CUP is approved. Keeping in mind that we have to meet that 60-day deadline,
you could simply table the motion as it stands right now. We would bring it back before that
January 8th deadline where council could then consider it again and either approve or amend.
Councilmember Robertson.
Attorney Lundin, correct me if I'm wrong. The applicant does have the ability to push
back the 60-day timeline. So is that accurate?
it
mr. Mayor councilmember robertson correct the applicant can voluntarily
agree to extend the deadline in their in their own discretion okay thank you
councilmember misolia thank you mr. Mayor and just to clarify there's I mean
this is just a conditional use permit for them to operate as is or is there
construction no construction happening or why planner's element thank you mr.
to operate as is.
Okay. I guess I'm confused why your contractor is upset that we're potentially pushing it out.
He's no longer upset, I told him to. Everything is fine.
And Mr. Mayor, just to clarify,
the use can continue as we work through these issues.
They don't have to, obviously, have to cease within the next 30 or 45 days until the CUP is addressed again.
And so, I think the council needs to make a motion
to direct staff to continue to work with the applicant.
And if we can bring that back before that 60 day deadline,
which would be that first meeting January,
we can do that.
If not, the applicant can extend it beyond.
So that would be the recommended action
at this point, based on the conversation.
Thank you, Director Thorvig.
Any other thoughts or questions
or does someone want to take that action up?
Council Member Nguyen.
I would recommend tabling it
until the meeting on January 6th, which allows time.
We do have a meeting on January 6th
that will be well attended by hundreds.
So I think that would certainly work out.
I don't know what the best language is to do that.
But if we're then withdrawing the motion
and tabling it, or we just table it as is, then I would move it.
Not to a time certain.
I'd prefer not to.
Then I would move tabling it.
I would second that.
Motion has been made to table the council member new and second by council member
Robertson any other question or discussion seeing and hearing none all
those in favor of tabling please say aye opposed that motion prevails the
item is tabled I do want to thank you all for coming in we'll continue to
work in partner on that traffic mitigation plan in particular I think
that's the only sticking issue and I will say in the meantime use that
shuttle. It'll help. Help us get it done. I appreciate it all. Thank you very much.
Next item on the agenda is agenda item 11 under administration. The first one up is
agenda item 11.1. We'll go to Director Schlwender.
Thank you, Mayor and Council. The engineering department requested and received proposals
for the development of the preliminary design followed by a creation of plans and specifications
for the construction to add trails to the Blaine wetland sanctuary as depicted on
the drawing before you. The preliminary proposed route as you can see was where
we left our discussion the last time this came before council. The plan as
it's proposed encompasses more community input specifically around some
of the trail heads as depicted on this drawing.
Again, the contract would allow for the community input,
preliminary design investigation,
and then funding that is available.
From that request, the city did receive four proposals
from consultants for this project ranging from 89,000
to approximately 340,000 for this work of design
and plans and specifications.
Stantech has provided the proposal and the amount of 89,000 and staff has reviewed this submitted proposal and determined that the fees are justified and reasonable.
After the completion of this design and plans and specs, a contract for construction would be ordered by City Council prior to any additional actions taken on this project.
project. The project is proposed to be funded through the public, excuse me, the open space
fund as you'll recall in the 2023-24 budget cycle in the capital improvement or five-year
CIP did dedicate approximately a million dollars for consultant services and for
for construction over the next several years
for this project to become a reality.
So tonight, we were asking council by motion
to authorize a mayor and city manager
to enter into contract with StanTech
in the amount of 89,000 for the design
and preparation of plans and specs.
And we would ask council to consider authorizing
a 10% contingency that would bring
the total project budget for design to approximately 98,000.
And with that, I would stand for any questions.
Thank you, Director Shulender.
Members in motion, please on 11-1.
I'll move it.
Move by Council Member Mosulia.
Second.
Second by Council Member Larson.
Questions and discussion?
Council Member Robertson.
Thank you, Mayor.
Okay, so I'm not gonna vote against this,
but I mean, it's not Festivus,
but I'm gonna air some grievances a little bit.
I feel like this has come before Council,
I mean, close to almost annually
in the time that I've been here.
It's frustrating that we continue to pay consulting fees on what already looks like a trail plan.
We've gone through the upland process and the delineation process.
So it's frustrating to me that we continue to pay consulting fees.
I'm also not totally pleased with some of the trailheads that are showing up in here
because I feel those trailheads were knocked down, dragged out conversations that we've
had multiple times.
And I did see the little tiny quote in the map that says, you know, conversation
to follow.
But I, you know, I'm a little frustrated by some of that.
I'm not sure if the delay in this process correlates to the delay we saw in maintenance in, you know,
the other wetland bank up in the wetland bank seven or whatever we're calling that.
You know, again, I have just some general frustrations and I know wetland banking
and other things are gonna be topic of conversation
in Q1 of next year, but I mean,
there's even dialogue in here
that says staff can do some of this stuff.
So it's just frustrating that we pay consultants
and consultants and consultants to do something
that is already here.
But again, I won't vote no on it
with the understanding that these trailheads
are not etched in stone, per se.
And that's not at you, Dan.
and you just happened to be presenting this item.
So I apologize if that was spicy,
but I just, I do have frustrations with this.
I feel like this comes and goes like every couple of years
and then we just don't do it.
And then it comes back
and we're paying more consulting fees
and then we don't do it.
So it's frustrating.
And I do also want to state just for the public knowledge,
the dollar amount associated to this project
is not a general levy line item.
Open funds, open space funds
come from park dedication fees
and wetland banking credit funds.
So that is not public levy dollars. We're not adding a million dollars to your levy so that we can
Build trails through the wetlands. So I just wanted to make sure that that was stated also
Councilmember Larson. Thank you. Can that consulting?
Fees can that be explained could Dan explain what what that does
Sure director swander
Mayor Sanders and councilmember Larson so the process that we've gone through here is quite extensive as councilmember
Robertson stated. I think the last time this was in front of council with our
consultants it had two-fold. One was determining some routes to best utilize
the upland spaces within the wetland area and to identify where those wetlands
were. The second piece of that was a consultant had to go back and edit the
the EDA site to allow the red the red hash line that goes north and south
through that we needed to obtain wetland impact credits for our own trail system
which we're not accounted for when that wetland bank was created so that really
spurred on the discussion as to where trails would be laid out to the south
and so while it depicts where we believe the trail is going to be we have
yet to do the actual field investigation as to where we were going
to drill into the soils here and make sure upland really can support a
trail or doesn't need to be boardwalk with some type of
helical footing or some pad type footing and that's what we've brought this
consultant on to do is tell us what we have for soils on this
route and then what kind of
boardwalk slash wood chip trails that we are going to need to construct and
they're going to prepare the plans that will tell the contractor
how much boardwalk we need and what that boardwalk looks like and how it's
to be supported so it gets very detailed. The reason we made sure this map showed or depicted
that the trailheads have not been discussed is in true fact we we have had several conversations
with several neighborhoods in this area as to their desire to have or not have access directly
to the the trail system so that is going to have some more community input on that
and we know those neighborhoods that are not in favor of that.
That's what we want to make sure.
While we had this map,
it is a rendition from the last cycle that we had.
So I want to make sure everyone's aware
that those are not the trail heads
other than maybe the one at 109th
where we have a parking lot sitting and waiting for a trail.
So hopefully that answers your question.
Council Member Larson.
Follow up question.
And so who determines or how is that determined
where those trailheads are at?
I heard you say community involvement.
Is that the determining factor?
Council is the determining factor.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
So based on the community feedback.
Mayor Sanders, Council Member Larson,
where these were shown is where the city currently
has easement or right of way
that connects to existing public streets.
so when some of these developments were created there was there was what
appears to be a trail corridor created for some day in the future so we've we
showed all of those to start with and then the discussion went some
neighborhood meetings were held and some were were told they were not
interested in having those ultimately the conversation will come before council
as to consider which ones will be included
and which ones will not be included.
Manager Wolfe.
And I'll just add that our city engineer noted
the exception of the 109th trailhead there.
And the reason for that is there was,
before that development was built,
we already knew about this project.
And there was a different trailhead proposed
that was worked into the design
that council was not comfortable with.
And so, that trailhead was moved to be down right where it's shown there at the entrance
and a parking lot specifically built for that trailhead.
And signs were put up behind where the homes were built saying, future trail because we
knew once residents moved in that they might not be happy about it.
We wanted them to know and be transparent from the beginning about that proposed
trail.
So, that trail along the back of the homes on the southern end was very much discussed
discussed and very intentionally put there,
as opposed to another location,
which was further north,
well, whatever that direction is.
Where they're showing a little thing
moving around the cursor.
So that one, I think we actually built,
had a parking lot built and dedicated
towards that being a trail had.
The rest, as noted there,
this map is showing previous renditions
of possible locations,
but they're not as clear as that one exception.
Excellent, well, I'm glad too that you put a bunch of that
back on the record, Dan,
because it was kind of like, wait a minute,
then we have these discussions.
I know it was a few years ago, but we had them.
So I appreciate you bringing that back up
and look forward to that conversation next time.
But at the same time, while it might be
potentially a good amenity for a neighborhood,
at the same time, we've got to think through
if there's not a parking lot, if there's not a spot,
you know our cars just parking and you know outside of someone's home to use
the wetland trails you know all things to think through and that certainly is
why neighborhoods might or might not like them councilmember Larson. Thank you
I have another question as I was just door knocking a lot in actually
manager Wolfe's neighborhood recently a lot of those residents want
connectivity and I understand that 109th is a county road so I'm also
curious is any of this at was that was the sanctuary neighborhood thought
through with any of this as far as where they could bike to connect with
any of these trails.
Chair, Chair Sander, Council Member Larson, there are a few corridors down in the
sanctuary neighborhood but at this time everything connects south to 101st
Avenue and we are waiting on Anoka County to extend or improve 109th so we
can get some trail and walk extended on that corridor and connect that
neighborhood on the north end. Council Member Robertson. Thank you and if it's
any glimmer of hope Commissioner Jepson and I are on that Met Council tab the
Transportation Advisory Board and one of the things that we're trying to
work on specific to 109th is some nonmodal transportation
grants.
On modal being, you know, walkability, bikeability, because I do think that it's super critical
for that corridor. And I know in the sanctuary, not only do they want access along 109th, safe
access into the wetland sanctuary, but I know they want a little trail that leads right here
to city hall through the wetlands. I've heard that one, too. But we are working on it and
agreed the county, you know, that's still not scoring super high for regional solicitation
dollars, but we are working on non modal grants that would encourage bike and ped traffic.
Any final discussion? Seeing and hearing non-council member Ms. Olia renews this motion. All those in favor of that motion, please say aye.
Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails.
Unless there's anything else, Manager Wolfe, we will adjourn and then go back to workshop. There is a motion to adjourn.
Is there a second? There is a second. All those in favor of adjournment, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails. Council is adjourned. Council will see you back in workshop.
shop.