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Good evening, everyone. Welcome. We will call this city council meeting for December 2,

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2024 to order. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag

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of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God,

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indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you, everyone. The clerk will take the roll.

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Councilmember Swemming.

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Here.

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Larson.

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Here.

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Solia.

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Here.

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Newland.

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Here.

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Robertson.

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Here.

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Soraya.

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Mayor Sanders.

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Here.

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Right.

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We'll start off this evening with communications which are announcements or updates from

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City Councilor's staff.

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Are there any communications this evening?

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All right.

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Seeing none, we will go ahead and open up the open forum.

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the open form is an opportunity for the public to present an issue or

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concern to the city council there's a maximum of 15 minutes set aside for the

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open form each presentation should be limited to no more than three minutes

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if your item needs follow-up from the city we'll make sure that staff connects

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with you to let you know what is being done on that issue but we want to

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thank you all for coming this evening and again the open form is now open so

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if you'd like to you can you're welcome to come up to the podium at

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at this time.

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Good evening, Dale Sprouse 1-2-880, Lexington Avenue.

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Thank you Mayor, City Council and City staff.

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This is a crucial moment in our community's future.

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I stand before you as a voice of a community

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fueled by determination,

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as we can continue to watch and confront the pressing

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issues that threaten the shape and the very fabric

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of our community.

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A proposed department complex

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on a commercially zoned quarter

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of 125th in Lexington Avenue.

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Let me be perfectly clear.

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We do not want the department complex.

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We do not want the multifamily dwellings in this area.

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We have a group of residents that have come together

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to voice their collective concerns

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about the implications of such a development.

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Yet, despite our clear stance,

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it seems some council members have taken upon themselves

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to speak for us, to make assumptions about our needs

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and desires without truly listening to our voices.

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issues. This is unacceptable.

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Excuse me. Your duty as an elected representative to represent

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the interest of the constituents who put you in office. Instead, we feel that that decisions

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are being made to favor developers who seek the profit at the expense of our communities

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yet we have witnessed the disturbing trends where developers' interests overshadow our

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legitimate concerns. Our community doesn't need more apartments and needs thoughtful

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planning that enhances the quality of life. We deserve transparency and respect, not backroom

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deals and hasty decisions made without the proper public input.

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Finally, I ask each

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of you, will you be the council that listens? Will you stand with us and advocate for our

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vision for this community? Let us make a stand against inappropriate departments,

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developments that threaten our community's connection, and let us be a community that

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is indeed heard and representative and respected. Thank you.

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Thank you. Is there anyone else here this evening that wishes to participate in the open forum?

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All right. Seeing none, we're going to move along in the agenda. Next on the agenda is

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approval of the Consent Agenda. All items listed under the Consent Agenda are considered

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to be routine in nature. It will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion

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of an item on the consent agenda unless a council member citizen so requests in which

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case that item will be removed from the consent agenda and placed in its normal sequence on

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that agenda. Members of motion please. Move it. Move a council member Newland. Second.

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Second by council member Missoulia. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I would like to pull item 8-9

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if I could please. Thank you. 8-9 is pulled. Any other questions or

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discussion to the consent agenda. Seeing and hearing none, all those in favor of approval

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of the consent agenda, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails. Next item on the

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agenda is agenda item 8.9. Councilmember Robertson. Thank you, Mayor. So I have a couple of questions

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regarding this item, Dan. I don't know if you are the expert in this or Jerome might

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be. I had a couple of questions just regarding the need for the proposal on

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this in particular item. I was under the impression that the work and maintenance

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on the wetland sanctuary especially the banking was an annual requirement. Has

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there not been annual maintenance on what do we call it branch seven or in

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in the wetland sanctuary to ensure

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that those banking credits are available.

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So I think if I'm reading the packet correctly,

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the last time that this was looked at through a contractor,

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they restored 39 out of the possible 81 credits.

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So I guess I'm curious why the full 81 credits

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weren't realized.

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Part of the, I think inception of the referendum

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that went out to voters on this open space

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was the hopes of you know long-term creation of that wetland bank and I

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think the total realization at the time was about seven million dollars

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give or take and those dollars were to kind of imperfectuity fund you know any

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buildings on site which I know was in the the CIP future plan for the open

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space and trails and things like that and maintenance so I guess I'm just

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curious if there has been ongoing maintenance or if there has been no

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maintenance I guess. Why there's been no maintenance? Mayor Sanders, Council Member

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Robertson. The original contract we had with an environmental firm ended about

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a year and a half ago, two years ago. They decided they didn't want to renew

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their contract and so we have with new employees coming through tried to figure

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out where that contract was left, what maintenance was done,

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what maintenance

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to hold the credits and then what needed to be done in the wetland to realize the remaining credits

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available to us. Once we've got that captured we have put this proposal out to start a new contract

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which is before you this evening which would then continue the monitoring and maintenance

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along with proposing how we would capture the remaining credits that are left on site

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to realize the plan as it was envisioned.

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Council Member Robertson.

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So if I'm understanding correctly,

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it's not just a matter of maintenance.

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I'm assuming since there's been a gap in maintenance

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that the restoration process with the Army Corps

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and realizing those credits kind of has to start over,

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is that accurate?

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Mayor Sanders, Council Member Robertson,

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we do not have to start over

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but we do have to re-engage in the process.

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And you're correct, there was no maintenance done

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for those two years that we did not have a consultant on board.

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Okay, maybe a follow-up conversation after the fact

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since I don't want to dominate council time would be appropriate.

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Is that okay? Do you want me to talk to you or do you want me?

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Is Jerome the contact person for the wetland management?

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Mayor Sanders, councilmember Robertson, I'd be happy to answer your questions.

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Wonderful. Thank you, Dan.

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In the meantime, councilmember Robertson, would you like to make a motion on 8-9?

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Yeah, I'll move approval of item eight nine sir second second any questions or

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discussion all right all those in favor of approval please say aye aye opposed

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motion prevails next up we have public hearings we have two items this evening

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for public hearings the first one is agenda item 9.1 we'll go to director

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Schoelender thank you mayor and council the city received a petition on

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October 25th from the property owner at 2663 Quill Creek Court. The owner is

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requesting the vacation of a 54 foot by 10 foot portion of the existing

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drainage and utility easement that was created with the original plat. The

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property owner did purchase Outlaw B as you can see on your parcel here from

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the developer and has requested to combine Outlaw B with the existing Lot 7,

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therefore no longer needing the drainage and utility easement that is

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hatched out there 54 by 10. Staff has reviewed this request and agrees with

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the vacation. The property owner will be required to combine Outlaw B with Lot 7

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and we are in favor of that.

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So tonight we were asking council

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to conduct a public hearing

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and take testimony based on that.

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And then by motion,

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adopt the resolution found in your packet,

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which would vacate that portion of the easement.

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And with that, I would stand for any questions.

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Thank you, Director Schlunder, appreciate that.

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At this point in time,

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I will open a public hearing on agenda item 9.1.

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Is there anyone here this evening

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that wishes to participate in the public hearing.

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Provide any comments on agenda item 9.1.

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And I'll ask one more time,

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is there anyone here this evening

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wishing to participate in the public hearing

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on agenda item 9.1?

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Okay, seeing no one,

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I will close the public hearing on 9.1.

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Members in motion please.

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Move by Council Member Robertson.

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Second.

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Second by Council Member Ms. Solia.

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Members, any questions or discussion?

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Seeing and hearing none.

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All those in favor of that motion, please say aye.

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Aye.

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Aye.

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Opposed?

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That motion prevails.

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Next public hearing we have is agenda item 9.2

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and with that we will go to our city clerk.

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Thank you mayor and council.

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Before you is a motion to approve renewal

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of currency exchange licenses.

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Staff received applications

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from the Minnesota department of commerce

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who actually issues the license

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for our two currency exchange locations

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in Blaine, Al's check cashing and your exchange.

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The renewal requests are forwarded.

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The Blaine Police Department for review,

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no items of concern were raised.

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What is required is a public hearing,

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and then after testimony by motion,

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approve these renewals that will be forwarded

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onto Minnesota Department of Commerce.

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With that, I'll stand for questions.

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Excellent. Thank you very much for that presentation.

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At this point in time,

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I will open the public hearing on agenda item 9.2.

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Is there anyone here this evening that wishes to speak

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or provide commentary on agenda item 9.2.

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Again, one final call, anyone here this evening

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that wishes to participate in the public hearing on 9.2?

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All right, seeing no one rush up,

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we will close the public hearing on 9.2.

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Members in motion, please.

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Move it.

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Moved by Council Member Robertson,

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seconded by Council Member Newland.

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Any questions or discussion on 9.2?

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Seeing and hearing none,

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all those in favor of that motion, please say aye.

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Aye.

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Opposed?

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Motion prevails.

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Next section, the agenda is development business.

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First item in that section is agenda item 10.1.

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We'll go to Planner-Sulman.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor, City Council.

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And what we have before you tonight

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is a conditional use permit request

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to allow the continued operations of the existing mosque

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at 12175 Aberdeen Street, Northeast.

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The property is zoned B3 regional commercial

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and properties to the North and West

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of the subject site are also zoned B3.

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The east is R1 single family and then in the B3 district a place of worship

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requires a conditional use permit. A little bit of history on the site. In

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2007 a conditional use permit was approved for a charter school in this

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location that has since expired because they have vacated for more than a year.

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In 2017 the MAS applied for remodeling permit. Condition use

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permit was required at that time but was not applied for. At that time

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Planning Department wasn't reviewing tenant finishes, so it's unclear if that was communicated

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to the applicant or not.

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In fall of 2023, various staff members met with MAS to discuss traffic concerns and

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the outstanding conditional use permit.

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They indicated they were looking in for ways to remedy the parking and traffic issues

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and worked on a plan, and once they had that set, they were going to apply for the

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conditional use permit, and they have done that.

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So the conditional use permit is to continue the operations as a mosque.

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They offer daily pre-services,

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educational programs and community programs at this location.

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It is also a polling place for us.

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No additions or remodeling their proposed at this time.

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They do offer four services

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and they are staggering services

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to try to alleviate traffic and parking.

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They did have three services and now they have four.

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So you can see that on the slide.

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What that breakup is

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and they have about 100, 250 attendees in those services.

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For the parking analysis, based on the full capacity that's determined by our fire marshal,

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375 parking stalls are required.

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The site has 148 stalls, so they are short 227 stalls based on that calculation.

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The applicant has indicated that their capacity is 700, and that would require 175 stalls,

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which would only be short 27 stalls.

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So, if that capacity is what they say that they are at, staff is suggesting adding a condition

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to Catholic capacity at 700, and that would need to be posted on site just like the other

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capacity is.

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Belain police officers have been hired to direct traffic on Fridays and assist with

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traffic flow and parking.

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a traffic mitigation plan.

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Should be submitted and approved by the city. That is a condition of approval.

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And some things that should be explored in that traffic plan is one-way traffic flow, off-site parking.

260
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There should be a shuttle service provided if they do provide off-site parking.

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That is something that we have done for other businesses that have different types of events and overflow parking

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that if they do provide off-site, that they need to provide a shuttle service.

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If they do have offsite parking with any of the neighboring properties, they need to provide an agreement to the city so that we can see that that is in full effect.

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That would also be a condition of approval.

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We received one public comment in support. The Planning Commission held their public hearing on November 12th and they recommended approval with the conditions that are listed in the staff report.

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That concludes my presentation.

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Thank you very much, Banner Selma. I appreciate the presentation. Members of Motion, please

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on 10.1.

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00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:08,650
Moved by Council Member Fleming. Seconded by Council Member Robertson. Questions

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and discussion?

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00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:18,270
Council Member Newland. Thank you, Mayor. I'm curious about the timing

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where there's a parking proposal that needs to be reviewed and required by the 31st

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of January, yet we are looking for approval today, tonight.

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I'm wondering how we can tie the approval

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of the parking plan with the overall approval,

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such that do we delay this until we have seen

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the parking proposal that's due on the 25th,

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or it seems like one, what we're doing now

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is getting in front of the other.

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They need to go hand in hand.

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where having driven that frontage road or the road during services, it can become gridlocked.

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There is a real challenge there with having traffic move through.

283
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So I would like to see the two tied together.

284
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So I don't have a problem with the use at all.

285
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I think that the use is perfectly fine.

286
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It's a matter of how do we deal with the realities of traffic and parking.

287
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And I'm a little bit stuck on where we go from here with with that

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Planner Selman

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I'm thinking Mr. Mayor customer Newland

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That is a condition of the conditional use permit right now

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Is the way that set has it written if you wanted to have them go in hand-in-hand

292
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You would want to postpone your action tonight and have them submit that prior to you taking action on the condition use permit

293
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Council Member Newland.

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Thank you, Sheila.

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And I guess that's the inclination as to how it feels like they should be tied together.

296
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I would be interested in hearing what others have to say as well.

297
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But that's my initial thought, to be honest.

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Council Member Larson.

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00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:06,600
Excuse me.

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That poses a question.

301
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:11,540
So, Sheila, is there other businesses that we have as examples where this has happened?

302
00:18:12,940 --> 00:18:13,800
Planner Salmon.

303
00:18:14,420 --> 00:18:15,700
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

304
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:21,520
When you say other, as an example where we've had overflow parking and required mitigation plans or what?

305
00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:29,240
Yeah, or where we have requested accepting before that has been figured out.

306
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,440
Anything similar to this?

307
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Planner Salmon.

308
00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:34,780
I think we have done it on some variances.

309
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Like they had need to install a fence within a certain time frame.

310
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Kind of drawing a blank right now.

311
00:18:40,580 --> 00:18:45,020
But I know that we have done some other conditions where you have you get this approved

312
00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:48,160
But you need to execute execute certain things before

313
00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:54,680
Typically, it's before you can occupy that space is a lot of times what it is but in this case they're already in the space

314
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Other I can't pull the permit until the cup is

315
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:07,050
Approved and then I can get approved for the permit and the permit will give the seal

316
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,440
Councilmember Fleming

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Thank you mayor

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00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:18,160
Yeah, so I do agree with you in this case, and as I went through this, I don't have a

319
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:18,760
problem with the use.

320
00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:19,500
I think it's great.

321
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,500
It's needed up here.

322
00:19:20,540 --> 00:19:23,380
Obviously, it's needed up here because you guys are at four services, right?

323
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:26,880
And that's what a lot of churches do.

324
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,700
And so I don't have a problem with the use, but I do, you know, in looking through the

325
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:35,920
comments from the police department, and I do drive that area as well.

326
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,760
I think there was inconsistencies in like using barricades to close the lot when it's full.

327
00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:49,300
I think some of the other things that are bothering me is that it is affecting the businesses in that area.

328
00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:53,580
And a thoroughfare should not do that. It should be flowing.

329
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,120
And the other thing is the public safety issue with no crosswalk.

330
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:05,100
So even if they do have parking agreements, we still have that issue we have to look at

331
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:12,520
because people are crossing without a crosswalk, and even what was it, despite the officer's

332
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,780
attempts to plan for traffic exiting the lot, there's still backups, congestion and disruption

333
00:20:17,780 --> 00:20:21,240
to local businesses continue, and there's no way to empty the lot without these issues.

334
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,040
So that is a major concern for that area, and I think that needs to be addressed before

335
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:27,960
we can pass this.

336
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,680
Now, I don't want to deny it tonight because I really want you guys to be able to address

337
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,240
these things but come back with the information that we need and you know you even talked about

338
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,200
possibly a shuttle system which I think is phenomenal I'm not sure how you can make it work but

339
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,480
I think that's important before we pass this so that's those are my opinions

340
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:54,580
Council Member Ms. Solia. Thank you Mr. Mayor. So I guess just a couple questions that I had

341
00:20:54,580 --> 00:21:01,260
just as you're presenting this Sheila so they haven't had a conditional use permit since 2007

342
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,800
Is that correct?

343
00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:04,220
Planner Selman?

344
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:10,320
Council Member Mosulie, 2007, a condition use permit was in effect for a charter school,

345
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:13,980
and they have vacated that, so that condition use permit has expired,

346
00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:16,900
so there's not an existing condition use permit on the property at this time.

347
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:23,300
I mean, is that normal? Does that happen pretty often, or is that...

348
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:25,220
I mean, I guess that just seems like a really...

349
00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:26,460
I mean, it's almost 20 years now.

350
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,960
The mosque has been operation operationals since 2017 so seven years

351
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,160
Got it so the mosque

352
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,480
Mosque in 2017 started operating, but they didn't need a conditional use permit

353
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,120
Planner Salman. Mr. Mayor councilmember Solia. They did need a condition use permit in 2017

354
00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:53,980
It was not applied for that time in 2017. They applied for a remodeling permit

355
00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:00,220
planning did not review remodeling permits at that time so it's unclear to

356
00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:05,620
me or my staff on if that was communicated to them or how that happened

357
00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:09,360
it's not clear in the record that we have they did it get their correct

358
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,540
permits for buildings you know for building perspective but just not

359
00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:18,100
from a zoning perspective. Councilmember Miscellia. Thank you. Mr.

360
00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:21,760
Mariff. The applicant would like to speak. Sure. Come on up please

361
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,440
introduce yourself for the record.

362
00:22:28,750 --> 00:22:30,650
Mr. Mayor, Council members, thank you very

363
00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:34,230
much for hearing me out. Asad Zaman, Executive Director of the Muslim

364
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:40,310
American Society of Minnesota. My address is 12175 Iberdeen Street, Blaine,

365
00:22:40,330 --> 00:22:46,970
Minnesota 55449. First of all, I want to thank all of you for being such a

366
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:52,150
wonderful city for all these Muslim community to migrate to and live

367
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:56,530
here, many of whom have made this their home for the last 20 years.

368
00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:05,630
So in 2007, a charter school applied for and received a conditional use permit to do education

369
00:23:05,630 --> 00:23:08,150
and have a prayer room in the building.

370
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:15,810
That school vacated the premises in 2011, and the Muslim American Society immediately

371
00:23:15,810 --> 00:23:20,870
there after occupied it and started doing prayer services in that prayer room

372
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:26,750
and education services. So that's why we thought this was a continuing use of

373
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:33,230
the same CUB and we didn't see a problem with it and to 2017 we wanted to do

374
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:39,190
some remodeling and we applied for it and everything seemed fine. And then

375
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:46,270
in 2023 I made a new friend and she and I know I don't mean this

376
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:52,030
archaistically she has been she has been very very helpful and we've been

377
00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:57,290
talking about how to mitigate the traffic concerns so you have all heard

378
00:23:57,290 --> 00:24:02,410
about the 10 commandments right so there's a secret or a little known

379
00:24:02,410 --> 00:24:08,070
11th commandment that says your mosque or house of worship shall never grow

380
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:16,510
larger than your parking lot. So we fell afoul of that commandment. And that's why we became

381
00:24:16,510 --> 00:24:16,870
friends.

382
00:24:18,990 --> 00:24:23,850
City staff and the police department and the planning department have actually

383
00:24:23,850 --> 00:24:30,370
been very helpful. They have come up with many good ideas. And over the past few months

384
00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:35,730
we have attempted a whole bunch of mitigation strategies, some of which work, some of

385
00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:37,770
which are not particularly useful.

386
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:42,470
So the first of it was we switched to four prayer services.

387
00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:45,370
We are the only mosque in the entire state of Minnesota

388
00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:46,790
that has four prayer services.

389
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:50,390
And that is because Blaine is such a nice place to be,

390
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:51,410
to call home.

391
00:24:53,270 --> 00:24:55,330
Also you have approved two other mosques,

392
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:58,530
so hopefully at some point this will come down.

393
00:25:00,250 --> 00:25:03,170
The second we have done is we started hiring

394
00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:05,870
police officers to manage traffic.

395
00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:12,050
A third thing we started doing for purposes of preventing double parking is to close the

396
00:25:12,050 --> 00:25:14,810
lot when the lot is full.

397
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:21,530
The fourth mitigation strategy we have done is we have made an arrangement with the church

398
00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:26,870
so that we can park overflow cars there and we actually have a shuttle.

399
00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:31,730
And I'm hoping if the mayor scolds the people, they will actually start using the

400
00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:37,670
Because the people have a tendency to want to, you know, we Americans, we love our individual

401
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:42,690
freedoms so everybody wants to come in their own car and do their own thing.

402
00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:47,770
So if you actually, like, tell the people that, listen, you guys have to use the shuttle,

403
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:49,350
that will go a long way.

404
00:25:49,870 --> 00:25:50,810
So please do that.

405
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:57,370
Fifth, actually this last Friday I gave the sermon, I usually don't give the sermons

406
00:25:57,370 --> 00:26:02,730
here, Imam Waleed does, but it was my turn on the schedule, so I came and one of the things

407
00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:10,910
we instituted is on Fridays, only right turns for exiting. So people are not allowed to take

408
00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:17,290
a left turn, they must take a right turn. We had a 99% compliance with this new idea,

409
00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:22,510
and I think, but I've not yet had a chance to sit with the police officers to understand,

410
00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:27,610
But my understanding is that it took on average five to six minutes to empty the parking lot.

411
00:26:28,810 --> 00:26:30,790
Usually it takes about 15 to 20 minutes.

412
00:26:31,770 --> 00:26:36,830
You know, the left turns on average take four, five times more time than a right turn.

413
00:26:39,050 --> 00:26:42,250
So those are some of the mitigation strategies we have talked about.

414
00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:51,770
One of the other ideas that was discussed was the need to create one of the two entrances into the parking lot to be an enter only

415
00:26:51,770 --> 00:26:54,110
and the other to be an exit only, so one-way traffic.

416
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:57,830
So this is the only one thing we have not implemented so far.

417
00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:04,130
So in case you are wondering what would be part of the traffic mitigation plan, it would

418
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:07,370
probably be some variation of what I have just described.

419
00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:12,230
The only one thing in it that has not yet been implemented is the one-way traffic.

420
00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:17,190
Another idea that has been talked about is a part of the parking lot might become

421
00:27:18,650 --> 00:27:23,830
for those who do carpooling only so as to encourage more carpooling.

422
00:27:24,790 --> 00:27:30,570
But one of the things, because of the four prayer slots we have had,

423
00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:33,650
the mosque does not actually become full.

424
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:39,030
Even under the reduced capacity, it would be 700.

425
00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:41,950
We don't even come near to 700.

426
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:44,850
At its highest, we're hitting 250.

427
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:51,390
So the entire downstairs is empty because it's the 11th commandment.

428
00:27:51,610 --> 00:27:53,830
We are not allowed to grow faster than our parking lot.

429
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:57,170
So that's where we are at.

430
00:27:57,770 --> 00:28:04,870
Again, if you feel the need to delay it, I guess we can come back in January or all

431
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:10,850
the items that she has mentioned for the traffic plan are basically these six items.

432
00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:15,310
And we don't necessarily have an objection to any of them.

433
00:28:16,210 --> 00:28:17,430
I hope that's useful.

434
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:18,990
It's very helpful.

435
00:28:19,170 --> 00:28:19,370
Thank you.

436
00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:20,190
Council Member Fleming?

437
00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:21,670
I just have a quick question.

438
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:27,890
So how long is your service and how much time is in between when the service ends to

439
00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:28,850
when the next service starts?

440
00:28:29,310 --> 00:28:32,130
We'll see when Imam Wuli does the service, it's 15 minutes.

441
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:36,630
But last week, I did it this Friday, it was 20 minutes, we got many complaints.

442
00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:37,830
Yeah,

443
00:28:43,550 --> 00:28:46,530
as you can see, we try to stagger it enough.

444
00:28:46,670 --> 00:28:50,430
In the winter, it's a little harder because the prayer times are squeezed because of the

445
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:51,150
short days.

446
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:54,350
In the summer times, it's not an issue.

447
00:28:56,990 --> 00:28:58,030
Council Member Misolia.

448
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:59,990
Thank you for the history.

449
00:29:00,210 --> 00:29:01,210
I appreciate that.

450
00:29:01,450 --> 00:29:02,350
That's good information.

451
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:13,010
The other question that I have for Sheila is just this whole concept of going, basing

452
00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:19,290
the capacity on the applicant saying there are 700 people capacity versus the fire marshal.

453
00:29:19,530 --> 00:29:26,530
Is that typical? That seems a little different to me. When we were there, it's a pretty

454
00:29:26,530 --> 00:29:34,750
big area. I guess I have a little bit of a concern. I get that we can post it and

455
00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:43,550
say 0 700 but then you know how how does that actually look in reality and is that typical

456
00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:49,250
have we done that before or I mean in my understanding we would go by what the fire marshal would

457
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:49,890
say so.

458
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:52,240
Yep.

459
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:59,560
Council member Miss Aliah. We did that for the event center that was going to go in where 125

460
00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:09,700
And we did cap the capacity there. And it would be the same way if the capacity is posted, it has to be followed and the fire department and fire marshal can enforce that.

461
00:30:10,580 --> 00:30:16,100
Okay, thank you. And that's the event center that we ended up not approving because of parking, right?

462
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,460
Well, we did end up approving it with some, a lot of conditions, but they ended up not going in.

463
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:29,220
Okay, got it. Correct. Okay, so we have done that before. That's not anything new precedent.

464
00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:31,980
And then who would be in charge of enforcing that?

465
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:32,500
The fire marshal?

466
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,360
The fire marshal.

467
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:33,940
OK.

468
00:30:34,820 --> 00:30:35,400
Thank you.

469
00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:36,660
May I say one more thing?

470
00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:41,800
So from a fire marshal perspective,

471
00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:44,000
the fire marshal is asking the question,

472
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,800
if we had 1,500 human bodies in a room and a fire broke out,

473
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,740
could they exit by a certain minimum time?

474
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,100
And using their complicated calculations,

475
00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:55,220
that number is 1,500.

476
00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:03,940
The planning department is asking, well, from a parking perspective, you clearly don't have

477
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:08,480
parking spots for 1,500 people, so we can give you 700.

478
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,280
But there is a much more practical reality.

479
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,280
The practical reality is I have 150 parking spots in that lot.

480
00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:25,080
When that 150 parking spots are filled, nothing else matters.

481
00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:30,640
You don't need a fire marshal that just people can't get in, right?

482
00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:32,300
So this is not an issue.

483
00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:36,300
Realistically, we are not hitting anywhere near 700.

484
00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:38,900
We're hitting 250 and that's it.

485
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:41,140
Thank you.

486
00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:43,440
Council Member Fleming.

487
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,620
Yeah, I just, I don't know if you can address, like,

488
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:49,200
Since they started doing some of the mitigation,

489
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,560
what the progress has been as far as

490
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,460
what the police department is experiencing,

491
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,520
has it gotten better?

492
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,740
Is it still gridlocking, affecting the businesses?

493
00:31:59,580 --> 00:32:02,940
Just curious if anybody can speak on that.

494
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:05,120
Planner Selman or Chief Bidany?

495
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:06,840
I would defer to the Chief, please.

496
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:07,260
Okay.

497
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:10,830
Thank you, Mayor and Mayor of the Council

498
00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:12,550
and Council Member Fleming.

499
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:14,970
So we have seen some improvements.

500
00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:17,650
There are still some things that persist.

501
00:32:17,650 --> 00:32:23,470
We have a very good working relationship and we've had a lot of meetings to try to work through some things and that's helped quite a bit

502
00:32:23,470 --> 00:32:31,550
I think some of the things that have yet to play out are having the one way in one way out and two entrances and then the shuttle

503
00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:35,990
I think I like the shuttle concept the kicker is getting people to use it

504
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:39,850
You know because everybody wants kind of like what we see at schools now

505
00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:46,230
You know schools were designed for buses. Well, so many people do parent pickup now that it's that's moot

506
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:49,890
And so I think the biggest kicker is working together

507
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:52,590
on how we can get people to use that then, too.

508
00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:56,490
Because obviously we want to keep traffic flowing in and out.

509
00:32:56,610 --> 00:32:59,070
We want to make sure we have emergency vehicle access.

510
00:32:59,290 --> 00:33:01,490
If there is a fire or a medical and we

511
00:33:01,490 --> 00:33:03,710
have to get an ambulance in or things like that,

512
00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:05,810
we want to make sure people are safe.

513
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:07,270
But then we also want to make sure

514
00:33:07,670 --> 00:33:09,910
we don't have people running across Aberdeen trying

515
00:33:09,910 --> 00:33:11,890
to, you know, from other businesses.

516
00:33:12,370 --> 00:33:14,210
I think one of the things that has improved

517
00:33:14,210 --> 00:33:18,370
is some of the parking and area businesses and I think that's some of them

518
00:33:18,370 --> 00:33:23,090
started towing cars and it wasn't certainly the mosque was trying to

519
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:27,330
educate their members to make sure they're not parking there but some

520
00:33:27,330 --> 00:33:30,970
people are going to do it anyway and I think some of those businesses started

521
00:33:30,970 --> 00:33:36,210
towing cars and that helped out with some of that. I think to see unfortunately

522
00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:41,810
for the people who got told maybe but that certainly has probably helped. I

523
00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:44,030
I think some of the things we have not yet to see play out

524
00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:45,990
are some of those other additional measures

525
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:49,110
that we might be able to look at to try to do that.

526
00:33:50,170 --> 00:33:51,510
Increased in the number of services

527
00:33:51,510 --> 00:33:53,710
and the time between services has helped as well.

528
00:33:54,370 --> 00:33:56,630
So it certainly hasn't been for a lack of effort

529
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:58,690
even though there are some things that are persisting.

530
00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:01,670
I think working together between planning

531
00:34:01,670 --> 00:34:04,610
and the mosque and ourselves has really made

532
00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:07,790
a lot of progress and I think we're maybe close,

533
00:34:08,070 --> 00:34:10,170
but a little bit more work might help a little bit.

534
00:34:10,170 --> 00:34:13,030
So Council Member Robertson.

535
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:13,710
Thank you, Mayor.

536
00:34:14,410 --> 00:34:16,990
To my colleague's point, in first,

537
00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:17,990
thank you for all being here.

538
00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:19,870
It's actually been very lovely.

539
00:34:20,150 --> 00:34:21,630
Your community has been here quite a bit.

540
00:34:21,970 --> 00:34:23,470
So it's wonderful to see you again.

541
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:27,130
I know that the mosque is kind of a staple

542
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:28,110
in that neighborhood.

543
00:34:28,270 --> 00:34:29,470
And we know that you're good neighbors

544
00:34:29,470 --> 00:34:31,870
and we want you to continue to be good neighbors

545
00:34:31,870 --> 00:34:33,470
and I know that's your intention as well.

546
00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:38,970
I do think that if there's an openness to it,

547
00:34:38,970 --> 00:34:44,110
I think a solid traffic mitigation plan before approval of the conditional use permit

548
00:34:44,110 --> 00:34:47,370
Would would make the most sense because

549
00:34:48,350 --> 00:34:54,070
Sir hold on one second. Okay. Do things in an orderly fashion year. Are you a part of the applicant?

550
00:34:56,910 --> 00:35:03,910
For the few edges David early perfect introduce yourself for the record sir. Thank you. I'm David early David early enterprise

551
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:11,590
I they contact me when the issue when the issue came about the permit the first

552
00:35:11,590 --> 00:35:18,550
time I did work on this building was in 17 there was never an issue with getting

553
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:22,090
a condition to use permit at that time I applied for a permit size given permits

554
00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:29,610
I opened up the moss made of beer we had inspections we'd done other permits

555
00:35:29,610 --> 00:35:31,910
since then, never had an issue.

556
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:34,990
And the last, I don't even know when this issue came up

557
00:35:34,990 --> 00:35:40,370
with the zoning, but I think it became a problem

558
00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:41,930
when the parking became a problem.

559
00:35:43,050 --> 00:35:45,930
And like every city with the growth,

560
00:35:46,490 --> 00:35:48,270
we have the same problem with the soccer fields.

561
00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:49,490
When there's a lot of soccer games,

562
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:52,270
we get locked, we get gridlock, a lot of it.

563
00:35:54,110 --> 00:35:59,050
Over here, it's a, if you went to the mosque

564
00:35:59,610 --> 00:36:03,290
And you said your prayer, they're in and out in 15, 20 minutes.

565
00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:06,750
This is not a gridlock for hours.

566
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:11,310
This is a five-minute gridlock four times Friday.

567
00:36:12,450 --> 00:36:14,230
We're not talking two hours.

568
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:17,350
I got the stadiums here or anything like that.

569
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:19,030
It's a growing process.

570
00:36:20,070 --> 00:36:20,830
They grew.

571
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:25,190
I understand it's inconvenience for a couple

572
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:29,290
of the people, probably the bank people

573
00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:34,650
that want to go to the bank, access that bank on Friday's, afternoons, and all of a sudden

574
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:41,750
the road's blocked and they can't get in out fast. It is Friday afternoon and most people

575
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:46,910
want to come and go quickly, you know. When I built a couple houses over on Cloud Drive

576
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:56,370
I had the same issue with getting a kid issue used for that, but this should not,

577
00:36:56,910 --> 00:37:04,630
I don't think withholding the cup is it should come under the permit this should

578
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:12,210
land under the permit for the CO of the property so you guys give permission for

579
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:17,710
it to exist and then it would be under a condition of the building department

580
00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:23,490
Dan would take care of it from there on and he would do you're saying no because

581
00:37:23,490 --> 00:37:27,710
Dan doesn't know because the CEO already exists. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr.

582
00:37:27,810 --> 00:37:35,330
We can't condition certificate of occupancy as CEO is a certificate of occupancy and that's building co-related and that's not something that we can condition

583
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:42,340
Councilmember Robertson to finish your thank you again. I

584
00:37:42,340 --> 00:37:45,080
Hope you're not receiving what I'm saying is accusatory. I'm not at all

585
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:51,980
I think you guys have always been incredible members of the community what I am hearing from our police department and from the chief

586
00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:55,040
is there's some things we got to work through, and I know you guys want to help us work through

587
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:00,120
those things as well. We want to approve the permit, but I do think a locked-in traffic

588
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,440
mitigation plan, including some element of pedestrian safety, if we have concerns about,

589
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,300
you know, people crossing Aberdeen, I do think that that is important. I don't think anyone

590
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:17,000
here is against, is against what you're trying to do. I think all of us want to approve

591
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,200
that conditional use permit. And I have every intention of doing that, but I need to

592
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,120
to ensure that our public safety advocates

593
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,660
and our public safety team is prepared to enforce

594
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:29,720
any plans that would cause traffic backups

595
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:31,360
or issues with neighboring businesses

596
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,880
or pedestrians walking where they're not supposed to be,

597
00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:35,980
it would be great to see what that,

598
00:38:36,620 --> 00:38:38,700
in writing of some way, shape or form,

599
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,380
the permanent arrangement, I think it was

600
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:43,180
with Oak Park Church regarding the shuttling,

601
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,620
like those things I think are important for us to have.

602
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:46,960
The last thing that we wanna do,

603
00:38:47,020 --> 00:38:48,460
and I know the last thing you wanna do,

604
00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:53,680
is to compound an already existing issue.

605
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:55,460
I think we have some space and some willingness

606
00:38:55,460 --> 00:38:58,120
to work through what some of those remnant issues are.

607
00:38:58,380 --> 00:39:00,540
So I think allowing the process to play out

608
00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:02,920
and PD to do its job and the mosque

609
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,620
and your team to do their job,

610
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:06,620
I think we all want that positive result.

611
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:08,920
And I think that's the process that needs to play out

612
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,820
for the conditional use permit process to be approved.

613
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:15,260
I did not make the motion for the conditional use permit.

614
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:19,460
I seconded, so in order, maybe, Attorney Loonan,

615
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,800
I want to make sure that we do this the right way.

616
00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:26,140
Our intention is to maybe remove the motion off the floor

617
00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:29,000
and allow more time for that traffic piece to be worked out.

618
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,960
What would be the proper language on that?

619
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,480
And does Council Member Fleming need to make that motion?

620
00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:40,160
We're secret talking, I'm not sure what's happening.

621
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,740
Yeah, there's a motion on the table currently

622
00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:45,080
before the Council.

623
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,900
It's for approval of the conditional use permit.

624
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:53,160
I guess one thing that I do want to emphasize is that the motion that is before the council

625
00:39:53,730 --> 00:39:59,400
does make as a condition of use the city's approval of the traffic mitigation plan.

626
00:40:00,130 --> 00:40:01,780
That's a condition for them to use it.

627
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,700
If the mitigation plan doesn't come forward, the permit is revoked.

628
00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:13,540
And so certainly you could table it and wait for them to come jointly forward.

629
00:40:13,540 --> 00:40:21,520
But as the resolution is written as staff has prepared it, the mitigation plan is a condition for them to operate.

630
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:29,980
And so operations cannot happen without the city's approval of that plan, which must occur before January 31st.

631
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,960
So it's already the safeguard, I think, that you're trying to protect for is already built in there,

632
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:41,880
because if there's no mitigation plan that ends up being approved by the city, then the permit is revoked.

633
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,380
I think that's helpful.

634
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:48,620
Attorney Luna, could you just describe in process how that mitigation plan is that

635
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:53,580
come back through as a resolution then, or how does that plan or settlement come back

636
00:40:53,580 --> 00:40:56,120
to so council's aware of the formality of the process?

637
00:40:56,740 --> 00:41:00,960
Mr. Mayor and Council, typically when we have those types of conditions, it's reviewed

638
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,720
by staff.

639
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,040
If you want to make a condition that council has to review it and approve it, you can

640
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,800
add that to the condition, but we typically have it reviewed by staff through planning,

641
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:17,360
engineering and public safety. Councilmember Fleming. Yeah, just one thought, take it,

642
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,900
she wanted to see what you think, is that we've already been trying some mitigation,

643
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,920
right, some traffic mitigation, and some work some doesn't. So to come here and say, okay,

644
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,820
this is what we need when we're not even sure if it's going to really work,

645
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,520
whereas if we do push this out and try a few things and we find out from the chief

646
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:40,000
in the police department. This was really good. This is good. This we need this and we need this

647
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,240
and then put that into the mitigation plan because we don't really know what's going to work because

648
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:53,970
some has some hasn't right. So councilmember Miss Olia. Thank you Mr. Mayor just out of curiosity

649
00:41:53,970 --> 00:42:00,990
have you guys looked at expanding your parking lot to the south since you do have some land

650
00:42:00,990 --> 00:42:09,770
there Mr. Mayor council member yes we have but that tiny sliver of land is

651
00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:17,530
actually a wetland so we might be able to like squeeze another five or ten

652
00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:25,100
parking spots out of it but it's not gonna be 40 we got a few of those wetlands

653
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:33,040
around here bummer other questions are the first thing we explore yeah I

654
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:36,420
will just

655
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:41,760
say I mean go ahead Councilmember Nealon thank you mayor I'm hearing that

656
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:46,760
there is strong support for continuing the operation of the mosque where it is

657
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,800
it's a matter of working out some of the issues that I think we're pretty

658
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,520
close on it's a matter of just fine-tuning it because the realities

659
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:02,820
are if the mitigation plan doesn't work and the conditional use permit is revoked. I wouldn't

660
00:43:02,820 --> 00:43:07,820
want to have the police department go down there and say, all right, we're closing you down. I

661
00:43:07,820 --> 00:43:13,920
mean, that's not the optics that we want for this city. So the reality is, let's finalize the

662
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,960
mitigation plan and make sure that it works and then come back and approve them simultaneously,

663
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:25,260
because there's a couple of areas I hear some questions on that, again, it sounds like

664
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:27,820
we're very close to being able to put this thing together.

665
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,720
So rather than rush through and come back and say,

666
00:43:31,740 --> 00:43:33,680
now this isn't working, we're going to pull the permit,

667
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,420
let's do this thing right the first time.

668
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,020
So I don't know what the language is again,

669
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,580
and I'm understanding what the city attorney said

670
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:42,420
that we already have that in place,

671
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,200
but let's not deal with something

672
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,440
that isn't workable and finding that it's approved,

673
00:43:48,620 --> 00:43:49,840
but then, oh, it doesn't work,

674
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,180
so now it's not approved, I don't,

675
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,580
I'm not comfortable with that one at all.

676
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,680
Attorney Looney.

677
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,840
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Newell and members of Council.

678
00:44:02,460 --> 00:44:10,000
So I believe if I've picked up correctly from Planner Selman, we have time under the 60-day rule if they were to table this.

679
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:11,860
That's the other consideration we have to make here.

680
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:12,560
Timing.

681
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,960
The 60-day rule is January 8th.

682
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,920
Okay. So council would, under Minnesota law, council would have to take action on this

683
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,560
item before January 8th or it's deemed approved without any conditions. So that's one thing

684
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:32,240
to keep in mind as we're looking at scheduling and planning. Potentially, if council was

685
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:38,680
inclined the procedural method, as I indicated now moving forward, would be to table it

686
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,980
and directing staff and the applicant to work on a mitigation plan and then

687
00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:49,200
And the plan itself could be put in as a condition just so it's clear in the application as

688
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,540
to what's going on, or so we know what that mitigation plan may be.

689
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:58,480
But ultimately, if council is inclined not to adopt today to bring this back so that

690
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:59,960
that can be part of the discussion.

691
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Discussion at the same time the CUP is approved. Keeping in mind that we have to meet that 60-day deadline,

692
00:45:06,140 --> 00:45:10,620
you could simply table the motion as it stands right now. We would bring it back before that

693
00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:15,220
January 8th deadline where council could then consider it again and either approve or amend.

694
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Councilmember Robertson.

695
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,940
Attorney Lundin, correct me if I'm wrong. The applicant does have the ability to push

696
00:45:22,940 --> 00:45:25,720
back the 60-day timeline. So is that accurate?

697
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:25,940
it

698
00:45:29,110 --> 00:45:33,710
mr. Mayor councilmember robertson correct the applicant can voluntarily

699
00:45:33,710 --> 00:45:39,830
agree to extend the deadline in their in their own discretion okay thank you

700
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:45,910
councilmember misolia thank you mr. Mayor and just to clarify there's I mean

701
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:50,190
this is just a conditional use permit for them to operate as is or is there

702
00:45:50,190 --> 00:45:57,270
construction no construction happening or why planner's element thank you mr.

703
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:59,110
to operate as is.

704
00:45:59,510 --> 00:46:06,030
Okay. I guess I'm confused why your contractor is upset that we're potentially pushing it out.

705
00:46:06,750 --> 00:46:10,150
He's no longer upset, I told him to. Everything is fine.

706
00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:13,430
And Mr. Mayor, just to clarify,

707
00:46:15,810 --> 00:46:18,750
the use can continue as we work through these issues.

708
00:46:18,930 --> 00:46:23,870
They don't have to, obviously, have to cease within the next 30 or 45 days until the CUP is addressed again.

709
00:46:23,870 --> 00:46:26,750
And so, I think the council needs to make a motion

710
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:29,270
to direct staff to continue to work with the applicant.

711
00:46:29,810 --> 00:46:32,870
And if we can bring that back before that 60 day deadline,

712
00:46:33,010 --> 00:46:34,750
which would be that first meeting January,

713
00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:35,430
we can do that.

714
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:37,230
If not, the applicant can extend it beyond.

715
00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:39,030
So that would be the recommended action

716
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:40,510
at this point, based on the conversation.

717
00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:43,990
Thank you, Director Thorvig.

718
00:46:45,370 --> 00:46:46,770
Any other thoughts or questions

719
00:46:46,770 --> 00:46:49,010
or does someone want to take that action up?

720
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:51,940
Council Member Nguyen.

721
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,200
I would recommend tabling it

722
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,340
until the meeting on January 6th, which allows time.

723
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,940
We do have a meeting on January 6th

724
00:47:00,940 --> 00:47:03,780
that will be well attended by hundreds.

725
00:47:04,460 --> 00:47:07,160
So I think that would certainly work out.

726
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:09,620
I don't know what the best language is to do that.

727
00:47:09,740 --> 00:47:12,100
But if we're then withdrawing the motion

728
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:16,520
and tabling it, or we just table it as is, then I would move it.

729
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:17,560
Not to a time certain.

730
00:47:18,060 --> 00:47:18,920
I'd prefer not to.

731
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,160
Then I would move tabling it.

732
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:22,480
I would second that.

733
00:47:23,060 --> 00:47:27,120
Motion has been made to table the council member new and second by council member

734
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:32,560
Robertson any other question or discussion seeing and hearing none all

735
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,960
those in favor of tabling please say aye opposed that motion prevails the

736
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,500
item is tabled I do want to thank you all for coming in we'll continue to

737
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:46,400
work in partner on that traffic mitigation plan in particular I think

738
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,960
that's the only sticking issue and I will say in the meantime use that

739
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:55,020
shuttle. It'll help. Help us get it done. I appreciate it all. Thank you very much.

740
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:04,480
Next item on the agenda is agenda item 11 under administration. The first one up is

741
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,260
agenda item 11.1. We'll go to Director Schlwender.

742
00:48:08,020 --> 00:48:13,600
Thank you, Mayor and Council. The engineering department requested and received proposals

743
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,380
for the development of the preliminary design followed by a creation of plans and specifications

744
00:48:19,380 --> 00:48:25,080
for the construction to add trails to the Blaine wetland sanctuary as depicted on

745
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:31,800
the drawing before you. The preliminary proposed route as you can see was where

746
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:37,900
we left our discussion the last time this came before council. The plan as

747
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:44,560
it's proposed encompasses more community input specifically around some

748
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,240
of the trail heads as depicted on this drawing.

749
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,120
Again, the contract would allow for the community input,

750
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:55,360
preliminary design investigation,

751
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,540
and then funding that is available.

752
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,900
From that request, the city did receive four proposals

753
00:49:01,900 --> 00:49:06,020
from consultants for this project ranging from 89,000

754
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:10,920
to approximately 340,000 for this work of design

755
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,520
and plans and specifications.

756
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:22,660
Stantech has provided the proposal and the amount of 89,000 and staff has reviewed this submitted proposal and determined that the fees are justified and reasonable.

757
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:35,040
After the completion of this design and plans and specs, a contract for construction would be ordered by City Council prior to any additional actions taken on this project.

758
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:43,420
project. The project is proposed to be funded through the public, excuse me, the open space

759
00:49:43,420 --> 00:49:53,440
fund as you'll recall in the 2023-24 budget cycle in the capital improvement or five-year

760
00:49:53,440 --> 00:50:00,740
CIP did dedicate approximately a million dollars for consultant services and for

761
00:50:00,740 --> 00:50:03,200
for construction over the next several years

762
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,020
for this project to become a reality.

763
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,300
So tonight, we were asking council by motion

764
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,100
to authorize a mayor and city manager

765
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,220
to enter into contract with StanTech

766
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,280
in the amount of 89,000 for the design

767
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,060
and preparation of plans and specs.

768
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,440
And we would ask council to consider authorizing

769
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,340
a 10% contingency that would bring

770
00:50:23,340 --> 00:50:28,240
the total project budget for design to approximately 98,000.

771
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,240
And with that, I would stand for any questions.

772
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,080
Thank you, Director Shulender.

773
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,660
Members in motion, please on 11-1.

774
00:50:35,460 --> 00:50:36,000
I'll move it.

775
00:50:36,180 --> 00:50:37,580
Move by Council Member Mosulia.

776
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:37,940
Second.

777
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:39,800
Second by Council Member Larson.

778
00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:41,660
Questions and discussion?

779
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:43,680
Council Member Robertson.

780
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:44,400
Thank you, Mayor.

781
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,540
Okay, so I'm not gonna vote against this,

782
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,920
but I mean, it's not Festivus,

783
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,720
but I'm gonna air some grievances a little bit.

784
00:50:51,260 --> 00:50:53,220
I feel like this has come before Council,

785
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,920
I mean, close to almost annually

786
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,180
in the time that I've been here.

787
00:50:57,180 --> 00:51:03,320
It's frustrating that we continue to pay consulting fees on what already looks like a trail plan.

788
00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:06,900
We've gone through the upland process and the delineation process.

789
00:51:07,580 --> 00:51:11,220
So it's frustrating to me that we continue to pay consulting fees.

790
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,520
I'm also not totally pleased with some of the trailheads that are showing up in here

791
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,700
because I feel those trailheads were knocked down, dragged out conversations that we've

792
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:20,640
had multiple times.

793
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,880
And I did see the little tiny quote in the map that says, you know, conversation

794
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:25,620
to follow.

795
00:51:25,620 --> 00:51:31,860
But I, you know, I'm a little frustrated by some of that.

796
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:38,560
I'm not sure if the delay in this process correlates to the delay we saw in maintenance in, you know,

797
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:45,480
the other wetland bank up in the wetland bank seven or whatever we're calling that.

798
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:53,320
You know, again, I have just some general frustrations and I know wetland banking

799
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,340
and other things are gonna be topic of conversation

800
00:51:55,340 --> 00:51:59,740
in Q1 of next year, but I mean,

801
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:01,160
there's even dialogue in here

802
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,980
that says staff can do some of this stuff.

803
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:06,360
So it's just frustrating that we pay consultants

804
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,440
and consultants and consultants to do something

805
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,920
that is already here.

806
00:52:11,540 --> 00:52:15,320
But again, I won't vote no on it

807
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,560
with the understanding that these trailheads

808
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,380
are not etched in stone, per se.

809
00:52:21,940 --> 00:52:22,980
And that's not at you, Dan.

810
00:52:22,980 --> 00:52:24,820
and you just happened to be presenting this item.

811
00:52:24,980 --> 00:52:27,140
So I apologize if that was spicy,

812
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,860
but I just, I do have frustrations with this.

813
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,260
I feel like this comes and goes like every couple of years

814
00:52:32,260 --> 00:52:33,200
and then we just don't do it.

815
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:33,960
And then it comes back

816
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,320
and we're paying more consulting fees

817
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:36,280
and then we don't do it.

818
00:52:36,340 --> 00:52:37,620
So it's frustrating.

819
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,580
And I do also want to state just for the public knowledge,

820
00:52:40,820 --> 00:52:42,760
the dollar amount associated to this project

821
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,580
is not a general levy line item.

822
00:52:44,940 --> 00:52:46,880
Open funds, open space funds

823
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,440
come from park dedication fees

824
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,640
and wetland banking credit funds.

825
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:56,260
So that is not public levy dollars. We're not adding a million dollars to your levy so that we can

826
00:52:56,260 --> 00:53:00,600
Build trails through the wetlands. So I just wanted to make sure that that was stated also

827
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:04,140
Councilmember Larson. Thank you. Can that consulting?

828
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,160
Fees can that be explained could Dan explain what what that does

829
00:53:10,740 --> 00:53:12,060
Sure director swander

830
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:20,680
Mayor Sanders and councilmember Larson so the process that we've gone through here is quite extensive as councilmember

831
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,660
Robertson stated. I think the last time this was in front of council with our

832
00:53:25,660 --> 00:53:31,080
consultants it had two-fold. One was determining some routes to best utilize

833
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,960
the upland spaces within the wetland area and to identify where those wetlands

834
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:43,720
were. The second piece of that was a consultant had to go back and edit the

835
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:48,080
the EDA site to allow the red the red hash line that goes north and south

836
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:53,020
through that we needed to obtain wetland impact credits for our own trail system

837
00:53:53,020 --> 00:53:57,340
which we're not accounted for when that wetland bank was created so that really

838
00:53:57,340 --> 00:54:01,780
spurred on the discussion as to where trails would be laid out to the south

839
00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:08,020
and so while it depicts where we believe the trail is going to be we have

840
00:54:08,020 --> 00:54:12,640
yet to do the actual field investigation as to where we were going

841
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,260
to drill into the soils here and make sure upland really can support a

842
00:54:17,260 --> 00:54:20,800
trail or doesn't need to be boardwalk with some type of

843
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:26,540
helical footing or some pad type footing and that's what we've brought this

844
00:54:26,540 --> 00:54:30,260
consultant on to do is tell us what we have for soils on this

845
00:54:30,260 --> 00:54:33,240
route and then what kind of

846
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,380
boardwalk slash wood chip trails that we are going to need to construct and

847
00:54:39,380 --> 00:54:42,060
they're going to prepare the plans that will tell the contractor

848
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,380
how much boardwalk we need and what that boardwalk looks like and how it's

849
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:53,740
to be supported so it gets very detailed. The reason we made sure this map showed or depicted

850
00:54:53,740 --> 00:55:00,380
that the trailheads have not been discussed is in true fact we we have had several conversations

851
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:07,900
with several neighborhoods in this area as to their desire to have or not have access directly

852
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:14,240
to the the trail system so that is going to have some more community input on that

853
00:55:15,060 --> 00:55:18,180
and we know those neighborhoods that are not in favor of that.

854
00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:19,440
That's what we want to make sure.

855
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:20,920
While we had this map,

856
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,460
it is a rendition from the last cycle that we had.

857
00:55:24,820 --> 00:55:26,660
So I want to make sure everyone's aware

858
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:29,120
that those are not the trail heads

859
00:55:29,540 --> 00:55:32,060
other than maybe the one at 109th

860
00:55:32,060 --> 00:55:34,700
where we have a parking lot sitting and waiting for a trail.

861
00:55:35,140 --> 00:55:37,220
So hopefully that answers your question.

862
00:55:37,580 --> 00:55:38,140
Council Member Larson.

863
00:55:41,450 --> 00:55:42,410
Council Member Larson.

864
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:44,170
Follow up question.

865
00:55:44,170 --> 00:55:44,890
Follow up question.

866
00:55:44,890 --> 00:55:49,710
And so who determines or how is that determined

867
00:55:49,710 --> 00:55:51,130
where those trailheads are at?

868
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:52,910
I heard you say community involvement.

869
00:55:53,730 --> 00:55:55,470
Is that the determining factor?

870
00:55:56,570 --> 00:55:59,010
Council is the determining factor.

871
00:55:59,630 --> 00:55:59,670
Yeah.

872
00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:00,050
Go ahead.

873
00:56:00,190 --> 00:56:02,170
So based on the community feedback.

874
00:56:02,590 --> 00:56:04,070
Mayor Sanders, Council Member Larson,

875
00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:07,130
where these were shown is where the city currently

876
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:10,790
has easement or right of way

877
00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:13,030
that connects to existing public streets.

878
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:20,610
so when some of these developments were created there was there was what

879
00:56:20,610 --> 00:56:28,050
appears to be a trail corridor created for some day in the future so we've we

880
00:56:28,050 --> 00:56:32,970
showed all of those to start with and then the discussion went some

881
00:56:32,970 --> 00:56:37,410
neighborhood meetings were held and some were were told they were not

882
00:56:37,410 --> 00:56:42,270
interested in having those ultimately the conversation will come before council

883
00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:44,970
as to consider which ones will be included

884
00:56:44,970 --> 00:56:46,750
and which ones will not be included.

885
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:49,860
Manager Wolfe.

886
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,920
And I'll just add that our city engineer noted

887
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,600
the exception of the 109th trailhead there.

888
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:01,820
And the reason for that is there was,

889
00:57:02,660 --> 00:57:03,920
before that development was built,

890
00:57:03,980 --> 00:57:05,780
we already knew about this project.

891
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,140
And there was a different trailhead proposed

892
00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:10,020
that was worked into the design

893
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:12,420
that council was not comfortable with.

894
00:57:12,420 --> 00:57:17,460
And so, that trailhead was moved to be down right where it's shown there at the entrance

895
00:57:17,460 --> 00:57:20,240
and a parking lot specifically built for that trailhead.

896
00:57:20,420 --> 00:57:26,500
And signs were put up behind where the homes were built saying, future trail because we

897
00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:30,720
knew once residents moved in that they might not be happy about it.

898
00:57:30,740 --> 00:57:34,980
We wanted them to know and be transparent from the beginning about that proposed

899
00:57:34,980 --> 00:57:35,320
trail.

900
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:40,880
So, that trail along the back of the homes on the southern end was very much discussed

901
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,720
discussed and very intentionally put there,

902
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:46,680
as opposed to another location,

903
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,020
which was further north,

904
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:49,860
well, whatever that direction is.

905
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:52,380
Where they're showing a little thing

906
00:57:52,380 --> 00:57:53,160
moving around the cursor.

907
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,640
So that one, I think we actually built,

908
00:57:58,940 --> 00:58:00,580
had a parking lot built and dedicated

909
00:58:00,580 --> 00:58:02,360
towards that being a trail had.

910
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,740
The rest, as noted there,

911
00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:08,600
this map is showing previous renditions

912
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,000
of possible locations,

913
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,260
but they're not as clear as that one exception.

914
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:19,100
Excellent, well, I'm glad too that you put a bunch of that

915
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:20,060
back on the record, Dan,

916
00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:21,420
because it was kind of like, wait a minute,

917
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:22,920
then we have these discussions.

918
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,640
I know it was a few years ago, but we had them.

919
00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:27,720
So I appreciate you bringing that back up

920
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,200
and look forward to that conversation next time.

921
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,700
But at the same time, while it might be

922
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,860
potentially a good amenity for a neighborhood,

923
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,320
at the same time, we've got to think through

924
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,320
if there's not a parking lot, if there's not a spot,

925
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,600
you know our cars just parking and you know outside of someone's home to use

926
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:48,120
the wetland trails you know all things to think through and that certainly is

927
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,400
why neighborhoods might or might not like them councilmember Larson. Thank you

928
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:57,140
I have another question as I was just door knocking a lot in actually

929
00:58:57,140 --> 00:59:04,140
manager Wolfe's neighborhood recently a lot of those residents want

930
00:59:04,140 --> 00:59:09,700
connectivity and I understand that 109th is a county road so I'm also

931
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:15,120
curious is any of this at was that was the sanctuary neighborhood thought

932
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,140
through with any of this as far as where they could bike to connect with

933
00:59:18,140 --> 00:59:18,800
any of these trails.

934
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:25,540
Chair, Chair Sander, Council Member Larson, there are a few corridors down in the

935
00:59:25,540 --> 00:59:30,800
sanctuary neighborhood but at this time everything connects south to 101st

936
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:38,560
Avenue and we are waiting on Anoka County to extend or improve 109th so we

937
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,160
can get some trail and walk extended on that corridor and connect that

938
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,540
neighborhood on the north end. Council Member Robertson. Thank you and if it's

939
00:59:46,540 --> 00:59:52,140
any glimmer of hope Commissioner Jepson and I are on that Met Council tab the

940
00:59:52,140 --> 00:59:55,180
Transportation Advisory Board and one of the things that we're trying to

941
00:59:55,180 --> 00:59:59,100
work on specific to 109th is some nonmodal transportation

942
00:59:59,100 --> 00:59:59,640
grants.

943
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,780
On modal being, you know, walkability, bikeability, because I do think that it's super critical

944
01:00:04,780 --> 01:00:10,320
for that corridor. And I know in the sanctuary, not only do they want access along 109th, safe

945
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:14,040
access into the wetland sanctuary, but I know they want a little trail that leads right here

946
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,700
to city hall through the wetlands. I've heard that one, too. But we are working on it and

947
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:23,340
agreed the county, you know, that's still not scoring super high for regional solicitation

948
01:00:23,340 --> 01:00:28,680
dollars, but we are working on non modal grants that would encourage bike and ped traffic.

949
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:36,400
Any final discussion? Seeing and hearing non-council member Ms. Olia renews this motion. All those in favor of that motion, please say aye.

950
01:00:36,540 --> 01:00:38,360
Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails.

951
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:49,380
Unless there's anything else, Manager Wolfe, we will adjourn and then go back to workshop. There is a motion to adjourn.

952
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:57,780
Is there a second? There is a second. All those in favor of adjournment, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion prevails. Council is adjourned. Council will see you back in workshop.

953
01:00:57,780 --> 01:00:57,980
shop.