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Good evening and thank you to the city
commission um city of Boomfield Hills

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commission meeting city commission
meeting for August 11th 2026. The first

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item on the agenda is the call is the u
on the order is to pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.
>> Okay. The second agenda item is Chief

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King will introduce the newest public
safety officer. Um, is that right? Is he

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here or no?
>> Uh, he was unable to make him and we

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just got apologize.
>> Okay, that's okay.

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» We'll do it next time.
Okay. All right. Um, okay. The next item

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on the agenda is the cassette agenda.
Does anybody have any questions,

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comments,
concerns?

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» Yes, I had a couple and, um, Sandra just
clarified them. Um,

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thrilled to hear that her clear gov app
or the whole new software is working

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wonderfully and going to come up to
speed because that was the 14,000

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um, she's using for the budget, which is
terrific. But you're happy with that?

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And I inquired about the Trobridgeidge
chip sealed expenses, 187 and another

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37. And she just um clarified that
uh 69 of of the 77 that we approved the

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extra money for the Trobridge. So we're
we're on track for the uh what was

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budgeted. Correct, Sandra?
>> Yes.

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» Okay. But there are concerns about
future maintenance and there are

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concerns about how the third layer will
hold up to all the construction heavy

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traffic and I think it's something we
need to address.

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» Okay. So,
um

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» do you want to do
>> is that something we talk about now?

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» You know, do can't do we talk about that
now or no? Are we just allowed to

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» I agree with your point. And I think we
need to budget for or would that be

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another business?
>> Probably other business.

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» We could put on other business.
>> Are you asking me? Okay. Um, this is the

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consent agenda. So, I guess the
appropriate action would be to remove it

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from the consent agenda and put it maybe
inserted it as 3E

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» or or at the end of the meeting whenever
you want to put it in there.

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» Yeah, we'll do it at the end of the
meeting. Is that okay? Sure. Is that

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possible? Okay. Anything else?
>> No. Thank you.

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» Okay,
Commissioner Acriman.

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» Nothing else.
>> Nothing.

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» Um I had just a couple things. Um
the um Chief King.

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So um the Trowbridge Homeowners Chief
King, you met with the Trowbridge

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Homeowners Association to discuss
ongoing wildlife. Is that my favorite

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topic? Coyotes.
>> Uh, no, it was deer and grubs.

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» Okay. Interesting. Okay. Um, and then
I'm actually doing this in a public

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meeting and making this statement and um
I'd like you to help with this is um the

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comment that you have on here about the
solicitor who was on Lone Pine at 9:50

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at night.
>> Yes, ma'am. So, um

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I'm not sure if a lot of people know
this, but I think it should be is we do

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not allow solicitators solicitation
unless it's a religious affiliation. If

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I'm correct, you can tell me. And then
also or if they come in and get a

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permit. Is that correct?
>> Yes, sir.

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» Okay. So, um I just we've run into this.
Um there was an instant incident in my

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neighborhood where
two people were there on a Friday night

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at 6:30 going door todoor selling life
insurance.

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» Oh my god.
>> So

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» I had a door to door as well.
>> Did you?

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» Yes. So, um I I know it it's always good
if we get those and I would remind

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residents, please call the police, just
tell them to come and check on them to

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see if they do have a permit or not. Um
when they come to my door, I literally

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ask them if they have a permit and then
I tell them we don't have it. So, I to

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me going door to door at 9:50 at night
um is a little bit too late.

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Uh in that instance, he was cited for
soliciting without permit earlier in the

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day.
>> Uh told to leave. We arranged, we said

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by and arranged for him to uh be picked
up, transported

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» to a city where he actually had a so he
was familiar with.

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» Okay. So he was familiar with it.
>> Uh and then he came back again

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soliciting later that night and that's
when we made a custodial arrest.

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» Good to know. Okay. Thank you. Um
so Jamie the Chesterfield Real um

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Calbert.
>> Yes.

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» Mid August. Is that a couple weeks away?
>> Um they were paid in the base last week

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and we're doing very well.
>> Okay. So payment wise are we

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» we're under the grand amount.
>> We under the grand amount. All right. We

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did it. Okay. Thank you very much. All
right. Uh, if nobody has any other

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questions, can I have a motion to
approve the consent agenda?

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» Motion to approve.
>> Second.

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» All those in favor?
>> I

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um I'll do that other business later.
Okay. Uh, okay. Next item on the agenda.

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Recognition of citizens in the audience.
Individual comments are limited to three

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minutes per person and it's also not
something that is on the agenda. Do we

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have any citizens in the audience?

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Okay, with that next one, next agenda
item, the the commission will discuss

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current property maintenance standards.

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Mayor, if I may, uh, just to start the
the discussion is that, uh, at your

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direction and the commission's
direction, we took a a hard look at, uh,

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the question you raised in July, whether
our approach to property maintenance is

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serve serving this community well or
whether we should uh, go further. And

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uh, I did quite a lengthy study on this.
Uh, and I won't get into all that, but I

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can give you some uh, some high points
of it. We we what we essentially did is

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compared ourselves to Birmingham,
Bloomfield Township, West Bloomfield,

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and the five points. Uh we looked at the
everything from building exteriors,

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roofs, paint, porches, uh site
conditions, pools, vehicles, vacant

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homes, vegetation, and nearly every
measure we match or exceed our peers. Uh

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we have a 7 in vegetation standard uh
that's stricter than most of the

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communities. One was at six inches. Uh
but most allow 8 inches. Only Gross

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Point had hit the stricter at six. We
enforce the complete international

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property maintenance code. Our vacant
property ordinance is the strongest we

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found anywhere in the comparison. And uh
we enforce proactively uh with our one

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code enforcement officer. Uh and uh just
to kind of give you an idea what what

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the concern is in the city is that John
uh provided a report to me that he had

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22 complaints of property maintenance in
2025 and only 15 so far uh in 2022. So

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in most probably 95% of the cases John's
been able to go through our uh process

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of just talking to folks and getting a
remedy. So we believe that process works

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pretty well.
Um

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tonight the there's uh right now there's
only three properties that have uh out

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of roughly 1,600 that have o o open
enforcement action is less than 210 of

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1%. Our vac vacant home inventory is
small and most of it consists of homes

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that are maintained on the market and
undergoing redevelopment. One property

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that required extraordinary measures the
vacant home on Pinegate went through the

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courts and it showed the process has
teeth. the property is being brought

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into compliance and every dollar of that
work lands on the on the owner and if

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unpaid it goes on the tax role. Uh
Commissioner Fischer had brought up some

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good points about other communities, one
in particular, Lake Forest. Um Lake

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Forest is in Illinois and she was right
that Lake Forest does have a minimum

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landscape standard and we reviewed that
ordinance directly. It requires two

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shrubs at least 36 inches in height for
every 10 ft of foundation facing the

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front of the home or the side of the
home. That requirement applies only to

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new buildings. It's one piece of a full
design system that they have. And they

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have uh have a a review board that
examines the architecture and site plan

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of every new home. Uh and a special and
they have a they have a special charter

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in Illinois uh that allows this. um they
have more than 19,000 residents and

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dedicated plan review staff. Uh no, no
community in Michigan uh had that sort

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of approach to new homes um that we
could find any uh so and here's a

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practical reason. I think new homes in
Bloomfield Hills are state uh scale

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projects that routinely installs
landscaping worth hundreds of thousands

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of dollars and every one of them would
exceed the lake forest minimum many

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times over. standard like that would
regulate the properties least likely to

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need it I think uh and leave the ones
the uh leave the untouched properties

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that prompted this question. Um so
Mayor uh McCarthy in particular asked a

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specific question uh it's a fair
question is that if a current owner

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removes shrubs should they be required
to replace them? We have several homes,

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about three homes actually, maybe more,
and John can talk to that maybe in a few

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minutes, but that uh have removed
shrubbing in front of their house and it

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doesn't look great. Doesn't doesn't look
uh to the standard of Bloomfield Hills.

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Um they cut their lawn to our ordinance
and uh they trim bushes and sometimes

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they remove bushes and to the mayor's
point, it doesn't look good. uh just

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doesn't look as uh as well as good as
all the other homes in in the city and

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in particular all the homes that I just
talked about that are spending a lot of

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money uh making their homes beautiful in
the city. Uh we did find one gap in our

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ordinances uh that we could fill in and
maybe two gaps. One would be uh we can

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make sure that anything that's removed
from a current property like uh grass or

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or or or bushes that if it causes any
sort of erosion is issue or or dust or

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dirt, we can make sure that those that
property is covered. Um, another thing

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too is that I think we could take a look
at what we did with 36 Pinegate and

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maybe uh establish some ordinance
standards that might add to what we're

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doing and not just so what with with 32
Pinegate or 36 Pinegate, we had to go to

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uh we had to bring this case in front of
the 48th District Court. We got a court

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order in action uh where we're the
property is under a property management

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company and uh there's a landscape
company right now cleaning everything up

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and all those costs will eventually go
to the homeowner, but we're going to

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have to pay the bill and we're going to
charge the homeowner uh who is a company

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that does not live in the state, does
not live in this country or does that

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the the company's not in this country is
in China. But all we're doing is

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recovering those costs plus a 15%
administrative fee. So we might want to

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think about making a lot of improvements
to that component of the ordinance. But

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» Mr. Hendrickson, how would we change
that? Would we pass a an ordinance in

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which there's a clear fine and it turn
it becomes a lean? Is that what you'd

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like?
>> Yes. Yes. Uh I think there's some

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probably some good ideas with with some
discussion. Our city attorney I've never

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actually talked to to Mark about this
yet,

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» but I think You do it.
>> Yeah.

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» Clearly you want to lean the property.
>> Yes.

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» I think we could we should make it like
Birmingham. Birmingham has a minimum

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amount of money that they charge just to
walk onto the property. If if we can can

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we change the law so that we don't have
to go to court to enforce these things?

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Can we have penalties and interest?
>> There's there's a couple things you can

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do. Um what you're using now is a
municipal civil infraction

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and uh that's actually a fairly powerful
tool. Uh it's what we used on the

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Pinegate property. Um you're able to uh
notify a property owner that there's a

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violation, there's an issue. Um if they
don't take care of it, a ticket is a

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ticket is issued. Um and then it goes to
the the court and if we prevail in court

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we can enter a judgment in the district
court that gives equitable relief. In

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other words, we can um have a district
court order that they bring the property

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into compliance with our ordinance. If
they failed to do that within a

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reasonable amount of time, the judgment
would also provide that the city um if

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the judge approves the judgment, the
city would be able to enter the property

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and correct the violation and any costs
incurred in collecting that vi

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correcting that violation
um plus a you know a reasonable

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administrative cost uh would be
something that we could record a lean on

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the property in. Well, that's what we
have now, but it sounds like we need to

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have a minimum landscape requirement and
if they don't meet it, then the city has

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the right to go on the property instead
of having to go to the court to ask

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permission. Correct.
>> What I was addressing was the

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enforcement method, the the method
>> that we're using now. Got it.

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» Um, as far as um minimum landscaping
requirements,

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I'm not
I would have to do a lot more research

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on that. I'm not sure that's going to be
something that's going to apply in

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Michigan.
>> To Dave's point, it could be just to

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protect from erosion and from, you know,
um,

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» yes,
>> I think we can do that.

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» Flooding and problems like that.
>> We can do that right away, I believe.

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» Yeah, but that's that's not the minimum
like lake.

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» Well, if you say you have to, you know,
two bushes every

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» Yeah,
>> we we can enforce the erosion ordinance.

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» Yeah. Reading what? No problem doing
that. Well, here there's there's really

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limits on what we can do on on matters
of taste. I believe I think 36 Pinegate

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uh although we got there, it just took
way too long to be honest with you

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because we had
we're at the mercy of the court so to

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speak,
>> right? So, we need to take that

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» step out for you guys.
>> Yeah. Revise the law so that we don't

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have to go to court so that if they if a
property isn't maintained like this

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piece of property is owned by China,
someone in China.

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» If it's not being maintained,
>> we can go onto the property. We can

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» That's exactly what we're saying. We
can't do it.

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» I I don't believe so without some type
of court order. Yes.

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» I wonder if Birmingham has something
like But then Okay. So there's no way

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then to get more than just what the
judge orders because I mean they could

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use this as a cheap way to maintain
their landscaping from out of state and

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out of the country. I mean we're just
getting our cost back plus a fee. We all

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know what it costs
>> in Boonefield Hills to retain a

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landscaping company to take care of your
property. It's expensive. I think we I

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would think we would want to make it
something that's painful that they

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wouldn't, you know, something that
gradually increases like if we have to

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go out once it's this. If we have to go
out twice, it's this. Every time

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interest on our money, if we're only
collecting it on their tax bill, they're

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they're using our money for all that
period of time.

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» It just seems like we should have some
law that has more teeth in it. If uh if

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I may,
>> the ordinance that was enforced on that

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um you have a requirement for vacant
property that's owned by an entity more

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than I think it's 30 miles from the
location of the property. They are

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required to hire a property management
company to take care of the the

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landscaping.
That was the ordinance we cited because

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they did not have a property management
company. So when we went to court um we

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asked the judge to order them to comply
with our ordinance and when they refused

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we had a judgment entered u that allowed
the city to hire a property management

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company. Yes, the city gets build for
it, but we put that on the tax leans and

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so it's recovered the next year. There
is an administrative expense and I know

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that particular one was very time
consuming. Um,

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this is kind of a new procedure we were
doing in the 48th district court. I'm

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hoping it will um get smoother and and
quicker turnaround. I've had success

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with it in other communities. So, I'm
hoping we'll get there. Um, but, uh, you

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know, increasing the penalty would be
something that you could explore a

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municipal civil infraction. Um, there's
a lot more latitude with the amount of

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fine that can be imposed, particularly
with like a first, second, and third

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00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:40,240
type of uh, of violation. So, yeah,
there's some things we could do to make

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it more painful, I think was the term.
Is it possible that once a judgment is

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um made and it's in favor of the the
city then um

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at that point the judge has spoken
that's it's acknowledged that there's a

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problem and then it that would trigger
um additional charges. we would update

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our ordinance to say that if a judgment
is

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if there's a judgment against the
property owner, um we would then invoke

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a a a greater penalty because I I
totally agree with Commissioner

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00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:21,840
Buckley's uh comment that they're
probably just h happy to have somebody

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managing this for them. They're not
here. We're taking care of it for them

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at cost plus 15% which
>> I mean

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» that's nothing. we're doing all the work
for them and that that's just not

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painful enough.
>> Well, um

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» to the point of
>> to the point of

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doing something after the judgment is
entered, that's not something we can do.

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00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:50,240
Um but like I said, we could increase
the penalty initially and make it more

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painful that way. Okay.
>> Uh we do have

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00:19:52,880 --> 00:20:02,320
I've seen one ordinance in another uh
community that is assesses a fine on um

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00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:08,080
I think it's a wetland violation, some
type of environmental uh restriction,

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00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:12,080
and it it's like a $5,000 fine.
>> Um so, you know, that's something we

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could look into.
>> Okay. Yeah. This isn't supposed to be

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painful. reasonably related to the
interference with the police power

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safety,
>> right?

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» Not painful.
>> Compliance is

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» compliance with reasonable behavior.
Yeah, it's not painful. There's no

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00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:35,840
retribution involved in this, but make
it as much as you can, will you, please?

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00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:40,480
» What about how it relates to some of the
um buildings along Woodward, like the

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00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:43,360
old Denny's?
>> I I think we've been very lenient for a

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00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,640
very long time.
>> We'll work it out. Yes,

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00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:53,280
» it will work out quickly.
>> Yes, I Yeah, I I I agree. Yeah, that

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00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,600
one's a little bit there's, you know,
there's some nuances of that, but yes,

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absolutely.
>> That's been an embarrassment.

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00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:08,799
» Um, I had a couple of I I'm the one who
brought this up and because it's a very

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sore spot.
>> Um,

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00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:17,600
Dave and I differ on this, but that's
okay.

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So what our the short answer on this is
that we do not give um a CO um unless

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until a permanent long ground cover must
be established by seating or soding

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before a certificate of occupancy. And
um there are other communities that are

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00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:40,720
the same way. I actually
and I have to say this um this wasn't

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00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:47,039
followed on Falmouth. They moved in in
June and not one piece of landscaping

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00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:52,960
was done. In fact, the yard was dirt,
the driveway wasn't done, and um you

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00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:56,559
know, they were I actually had neighbors
calling me because the kids were

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swimming in a pool with no fence around
it.

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00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:04,480
» That's incredible.
>> And so I called Dave on it. Dave went

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00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:10,159
out there and now the our resident our
neighborhood gets to look at a or one of

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00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:13,919
those orange plastic construction fences
on the side of the yard. Everybody walks

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00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,559
by and we we get to look at it. They
don't get

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00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:21,760
» Wait, don't you have to have a permit to
have a fence?

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00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:26,799
» Yeah. So, if I if I may. Um,
>> so, uh, Foulmouth, I I I understand the

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00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:32,080
frustration. Uh, you know, it is a nice
home in the backyard. the majority of

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00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:36,720
it's all done. Um, and they, as far as
landscaping, they they did comply. Uh,

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00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:41,679
matter of fact, they went above and
beyond in the uh approval with the

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00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:47,280
planning commission. They were required
to put uh 23 Green Giant Arbories that

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00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:53,360
are 11 12 feet tall. They put this the
the the homeowner put 42. I counted when

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00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:56,720
I went there that are 15t tall. So, that
screening was I think compliant with

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00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240
» from the neighbors on the hill.
>> Yes.

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00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,600
» Great. Thank you.
>> So, u that was complied with. I went in

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00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,520
the backyard to look at the fence. Most
of the fence is done. Orange thing, I

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00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:08,400
agree. Maybe we'll find a better
solution for the orange fence for a

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00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,080
temporary thing. Or maybe that fence is
done. I don't know. But they're very

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00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:15,120
close to finishing the pool fence, but
the majority of the pool fence was done

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00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:21,440
when I was there. There was a small
section that wasn't done. Um just kind

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00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:25,840
of, you know, in all fairness, uh homes
in this city can take two and a half,

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00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,039
three years to build. They put this
house together with the stuff with with

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00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:34,159
all the pool and everything in their
backyard within 18 months. So, they

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00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:39,120
moved pretty fast on it. Um, the
temporary COO, I know what I wrote in

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00:23:36,159 --> 00:23:44,880
there, but temporary, which is wrong.
Uh, temporary COS in our city at times

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00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,360
we allow people to move in with with
some of the landscaping not done, but we

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00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:54,640
take a bond. So, we took a $50,000 bond
from these folks um with all the

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00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:59,600
requirements that have to be done. I
wish it was done faster. I know it's in

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00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:02,799
the uh close uh to, you know, in in the
residential neighborhood that you live,

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00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:07,520
but there are some things that are going
well there. Um and there are some things

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00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,240
that could be going a little bit faster,
but

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00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,120
» majority of projects done.
>> When you bonded, do you have a time

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00:24:11,919 --> 00:24:16,080
limit for them to fulfill the
requirements?

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00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:22,159
» So, we we gave them uh so the ordinance
says they can have a temporary CFO up to

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00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:27,039
six months. We gave him 60 days which uh
expires the 14th of this month which

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00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,400
expires in two or three days. I don't
know exactly where it's at. Scott is our

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00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,120
building official. Do you know exactly
where it's at, Scott?

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00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:38,120
» I'm going to go out there and see. But I
know

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00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:45,440
I mean what are you going to do? Kick
them out?

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00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,480
Well, I mean, yeah, we we try to
>> problem with letting them move in. If

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00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,039
you don't want them lose their bond,
>> I would agree. Yeah. Letting them move

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00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,799
in.
>> I can see why you do because Yeah.

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00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,200
» people die to move in.
>> I just don't think you should let them

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00:24:55,679 --> 00:24:59,279
fill the pool if there's no fence around
it.

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00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,400
» Yeah. I don't know how that happened.
How did they fill a pool with no safety

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00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,600
issue?
>> The dirt is one thing to look at, but

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00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:10,240
this pool is an issue.
>> Absolutely. And and we've run across

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00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,880
pools that the fence isn't done and and
then

321
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,120
» you can ask them to drain the pool.
>> Yeah.

322
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:16,720
» I mean, if it's a safety issue for real.
>> Yeah.

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00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,799
» Or they have to put another kind of
fence around it until the real fence

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00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:22,960
comes.
>> Well, I think they should probably have

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00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:27,919
a a co- compliant fence. Whether it's
ordinance compliant, but at least code

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00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:32,240
compliant um for protection. So, we'll
make sure that's done right.

327
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:37,760
» But I think it's it's should be the the
fence for the pool should be done.

328
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:41,039
out there.
>> Yeah, I went out there with with uh

329
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:46,039
» it's going on the side where the orange
fence is.

330
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,039
» No, that won't be there at all.

331
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:53,360
» Okay. Um
Okay. The other thing I just want to

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00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:58,320
take note of is um I realize that you
did the cities around us and I think

333
00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:04,720
that's great. Um however, I would say
that um well, our city is a little bit

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00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:10,480
different. I think we're very unique and
um I think that so I looked up a couple

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00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:15,120
of other or um cities. One of them I've
said before in this in these meetings is

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00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:21,360
Indian Indian Wells, California. It's a
very prestigious community in the Palm

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00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:28,159
Springs area. And um they actually go as
far as telling a homeowner whether it's

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00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:33,440
new a new home or an existing home that
if you're going to landscape over 2500

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00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:38,240
square feet, you are required to have a
drawing by a California licensed

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00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:43,760
landscape architect and it is reviewed
by the design review committee. Um and

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00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,520
that is for not in existing and
non-conforming areas are grandfathered.

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00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,200
So, if you already own it and you're
there, that's fine. But if it's you're

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00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:56,240
going to change your landscaping, it's
over 2500 square feet. And I liked this

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00:26:54,240 --> 00:27:00,720
wording. They actually used the wording
in the or ordinance and they said all

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00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:07,120
homeowners
um are responsible for maintaining the

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00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:11,520
the city's luxury aesthetics
is what they said. Is that so? They're

347
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,000
saying, "Hey, if you have a home here,
you need to have

348
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:18,400
» That's subjective.
>> It's very subjective." It is. It is.

349
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:24,240
» You can't legislate that.
>> We'll make Mark really wealthy on

350
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,919
» They too Yeah, they they too have a
land,

351
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:29,919
» you know,
>> they too have a landscaping rule of

352
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:35,600
three plants per 100 square feet minimum
for residents landscaping. Um, I also

353
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:41,440
looked at Palm Beach and I didn't get to
go that far into this one, but um, I did

354
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:45,520
see that all landscaping material has to
be installed prior to certificate of

355
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:51,279
occupancy in Palm Beach. So, if they
build a new house and it has to be and

356
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:58,000
they also have one tree per,50
square feet, a maximum of 15 trees in

357
00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Palm Beach. So, here's I just want to
bring this up. I I know there's this

358
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:05,600
whole fine line and subjective and
everything, but something that just

359
00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:12,559
happened. So, the orange fencing is what
we look at. Um I had a um person on

360
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:17,120
Martell send me this picture today and
I'll let you guys take a look at this

361
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:22,960
and then also they have a temporary
fence over to the over in the side of

362
00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:28,320
their house. And you know, the problem
we have is the residents are complaining

363
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:33,360
because they're redoing this house and
they want to put a they want to put a

364
00:28:30,399 --> 00:28:35,360
fence up, but this is look like this.
>> Is that netting in front of another

365
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,120
fence?
>> Uhhuh.

366
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,679
» Yeah.
>> Oh, okay.

367
00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:46,640
» And then they have a a a uh this
temporary fence on the other side and

368
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:51,279
the homeowners are tired of looking at
it. It This is Martell's, you Is this

369
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:54,799
the one we were just reviewing?
>> Yes. Oh, this is the one.

370
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,880
» Yeah, this is the one. Um, it was
>> You were taking it all down though.

371
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:03,200
» It was good, but we had The point is is
we had to come in front of a planning

372
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:10,640
commission. We had to have a homeowners
complain, write letters, send pictures

373
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:15,120
before a commissioner said, "Look, you
need to take it down and it needs to be

374
00:29:12,159 --> 00:29:19,760
down this week." Like, so what I'm
trying to say is

375
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:25,600
we should be able to have something that
we put in these ordinances that

376
00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:30,480
residents who are paying taxes do not
have to put up with people who are just

377
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:36,559
taking their time, who are putting up
temporary fencing, who are just, you

378
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:42,960
know, they they're not considerate of
their neighbors. This one is even goes f

379
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:46,640
further with it, but I feel like
you went under construction. You you did

380
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:50,159
remodeling and you had to have a pods
thing in front for a while. I mean,

381
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:54,000
everyone has their time frame where they
have to do something that is not making

382
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,600
neighbors happy.
>> But I just think that um and I agree

383
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,720
with that. Um
>> but I think that

384
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,799
» John,
>> I'm trying to get you something that you

385
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:09,520
can be a little bit more than just go
walking into a resident and saying, you

386
00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:12,640
know, slap their hand and give them a
$100 fine or whatever. True.

387
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,039
» I think that's what the commission is
saying is it's got to be something that

388
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:21,120
is really going to hurt or get them
motivated to be able to do something

389
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,480
instead of just waiting.
>> Well, like you were saying, if something

390
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,760
is blighted looking, you don't have any
teeth to ask them do anything except cut

391
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,880
the lawn. Correct.
>> Yes.

392
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:36,000
» Well, John, I
John, how often do we That is a horrible

393
00:30:33,679 --> 00:30:40,399
uh green fence is bad and I was on that
property uh last week and it wasn't

394
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:44,000
there. So,
You know, is this a bad bad look for

395
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:49,120
them at the planning commission meeting?
It really was. But let me ask you, John,

396
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:52,240
do you run across fences that are are
not per ordinance? And what do you do

397
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:57,120
about that?
>> Not often. There's a few that um like

398
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:01,120
that one on Martell there. They said
they were there last week. It wasn't up.

399
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,640
Um we've had a lot of cars parked in the
driveway. They're the contractor. So,

400
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:08,399
it's not as though we go walking around
those sites every day. A lot of scenes

401
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,480
from curbside. Had a lot of trucks
there. Didn't

402
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,720
D again gave you a heads up on that
today went right out there. So an

403
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:22,399
instance like that I did a knock on the
door obviously no home the contractors

404
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:26,480
who were on site had nothing to do with
that. So now I'm in the process of

405
00:31:24,399 --> 00:31:32,080
getting a hold of the general contractor
see that

406
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:36,880
one that was just today.
I guess my question to you is are you

407
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,679
you feel you're able to if you're given
the complaint you're one person so

408
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,279
there's no way you can see all these
things that happen in the city but

409
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,240
you're one person most of the time
you're getting the complaints from me

410
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,360
but when you get the complaint are you
able to go out there and remedy it and

411
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,440
what percentage of the time do you feel
you're able to remedy it

412
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:58,799
» definitely can remedy it 90% of the time
it's things are done within a week max

413
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,320
usually seven days
>> okay is there anything that you see that

414
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:07,120
you
that could help you in your job.

415
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:11,519
» Um, like I said, 90% of people go with
the flow. Literally, um, guys, it's

416
00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:16,640
somewhat informal at times, too. It's
not even a You have two things. You have

417
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:22,640
a notice of violation, which is formal
letter, unofficial letter. Um, it's got

418
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:27,760
the city on it and everything. What I
normally do for property maintenance,

419
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:32,159
it's informal. It's called a violation
notice. That is a handwritten notice

420
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,679
explaining the violation, what you can
do to fix it, and I attach my business

421
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:40,720
card to it. So, if you have any
questions, call me. Cell phone,

422
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:44,559
everything. Call me anytime with that.
They I normally don't even get a call

423
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,799
within three or four days. It's taken
care of. Not even a correspondence or

424
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,799
even talking. That's if they're not
home. I try. There's a violation. I

425
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:57,519
knock on every door. I'd rather do it
face to face and send a letter or phone

426
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:02,080
call or something.
90% of the time I don't even talk to

427
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:05,840
them here. So,
>> okay. But we're talking about it. So, it

428
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,519
happens. And like you said, a lot of
times it's hard for you to see it. Um,

429
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:13,120
but
>> So, we're talking about it. So, there

430
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,679
seems like there needs to be some kind
of

431
00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:19,840
» change or resolve.
>> I think so. I I think uh what could

432
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:24,080
change is what we really when when we
have the problems. So, it's it's great

433
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:28,720
that John can solve 90 plus percent of
them, but when the real problems occur

434
00:33:26,159 --> 00:33:33,679
and and uh we have to go through that
court process, I think we got to find a

435
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,600
better answer. I think uh Mark and I can
work on that and bring something back to

436
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,679
you.
>> Okay,

437
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,120
» great. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

438
00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:44,559
» Appreciate that. All right. Um next item
on the agenda, the commission will

439
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:50,640
discuss the traffic control improvement
options at Hickory Grove and Lasser.

440
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,159
» Thank you, mayor. Uh, last time I
brought this up to the the commission, I

441
00:33:52,720 --> 00:34:01,840
mean, there was a few questions that was
asked of me. So, I had a meeting um with

442
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:06,799
uh with um Oakland County Road
Commission. And, you know, I I guess I'm

443
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:11,599
sort of just kind of rehashing the uh
the information that they provided me,

444
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:15,280
the study that they provided me. Um, but
I can just kind of go over the my

445
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:19,679
executive summary. Uh, the traffic
signal at Loster and Hickory Grove is

446
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:25,040
about 30 years old. and at the end of
its uh service life. Uh the road

447
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:28,720
commission advised that uh this is the
last intersection in the county not

448
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:33,040
updated with left turn lanes and or
modern signal technology. The ownership

449
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,800
of the intersection we determined that
was one of the questions that the

450
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:40,960
commission had. Who really owns this and
does the township have some

451
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:46,639
responsibility? So the ownership of the
intersection is divided between the the

452
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:48,720
city and uh Oakland County.
>> Our city and Oakland County.

453
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:50,720
» Yes. our city,
>> not their city.

454
00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:56,639
» Yeah, not their city.
>> Um, and by the way, I did actually also

455
00:34:53,440 --> 00:35:04,400
talk to uh Supervisor Mike McCriedy
about this issue, discuss it with him.

456
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:10,720
Uh, and um, you know, he I think he uh,
he's very supportive, but uh, um, it is

457
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:17,599
our responsibility, you know, replacing.
Um so um so the so the the county

458
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:22,480
essentially has the north and west
components of the intersection and we

459
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:26,800
have the south and east sections. Um
that's how it it's kind of divided but

460
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:32,960
replacing the signal is both our
responsibility. So this was uh this

461
00:35:29,839 --> 00:35:39,040
issue was brought up uh some time ago
and uh I asked uh the road commission to

462
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:43,680
complete a formal alternatives analysis
to provide to the commission which they

463
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:47,599
did in February of 2026 and in May of
2026.

464
00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:53,280
Um we provided that information to the
commission. Um the the uh road

465
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,640
commission intends to address the signal
within five years. One of the questions

466
00:35:55,119 --> 00:36:01,760
I asked them is what what if the city
doesn't uh get involved sort of lead the

467
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:05,440
signal as is and they believe they
should they're going to replace it one

468
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,800
way or the other uh within five years
because they believe it's a safety issue

469
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:13,440
just because it's old old equipment.
It's outdated. It doesn't really

470
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:16,160
» act or respond like everything else.
>> You can't ignore this. Right.

471
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:21,839
» Right.
So, um, now the the, uh, the county, uh,

472
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:28,079
recommends,
um, a compact roundabout. Um, the city's

473
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,960
estimated share was approximately
259,000.

474
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:35,920
I might be wrong on that, but, that's
the that's what was in the the report,

475
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:39,599
the original report. Um, and both mark
PES pedestrian crossings at the

476
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:43,680
intersection,
uh, which is in the township. They lie

477
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:46,880
outside our our corporate limits. So, I
know there's probably some residents

478
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,160
here from the township and it's
important that they know that these

479
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:53,200
locations are not within the city of
Bloomfield Hills and they're not the

480
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:56,640
respons responsibility of the city of
Bloomfield. As a matter of fact, when I

481
00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:01,599
drove through there, we had previous
discussions about our police department

482
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:05,280
and you know, folks crossing it kind of,
you know, made my heart skip because you

483
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,720
know, we could have be making claims
that it's not within our jurisdiction.

484
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:14,320
We cannot have our public safety
officers work outside of our city

485
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:17,760
limits. there's a there's a uh it's a
liability issue and everything else. So,

486
00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:22,800
I think it's I wanted to make sure that
was clear here today. But essentially,

487
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:27,119
the county's asked me, you know, several
times, what do you think? What do you

488
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:32,480
think? Um I'm I'm certainly not trying
to pester the commission. I just um I

489
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,480
think it's important that uh we work
collaboratively with the county. Um I do

490
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,160
work collaboratively with them on a lot
of other issues and so I have a very

491
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:44,640
good relationship. So, out of respect to
them and out of respect to uh not only

492
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,200
our residents, but everybody drives
through there, including the township

493
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:52,720
residents, I think it's just something I
wanted to bring back up for um you know,

494
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:58,800
maybe some consideration. And so, I at
the end of my report,

495
00:37:55,119 --> 00:38:05,760
I just um I essentially
uh provided uh what I think you can too.

496
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:12,720
So, let me see here.
>> And the report indicated that 80% of the

497
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:17,280
has already been conducted by the county
on on the roundabout and I would hope

498
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:22,000
that we wouldn't have to pay for that.
They did that before. So I mean I know

499
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:27,839
there it said there would be some added
costs we don't know about but but 80% of

500
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:33,119
the design is already done that um it
has much less impact on the neighbors.

501
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,880
To me when we make a decision we should
look at who does this impact the most

502
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:42,800
and it's the people that live right
around there. property might be

503
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:48,560
impacted. And it said the um the
neighbor uh the the signalized

504
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:55,760
intersection would require roadway
widening affecting a retaining wall

505
00:38:52,000 --> 00:39:01,200
affecting fencing, 375 ft of sidewalk,
seven driveway approaches and utilities

506
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:06,160
and eight full weeks of closure. Whereas
the roundabout has none of that. it fits

507
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:13,359
within the existing right the existing
property and um they said it eliminates

508
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:19,200
the the left turn conflicts driving the
crash pattern and it's only six weeks of

509
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:24,640
full closure and and then as you pointed
out we all had concerns about the safety

510
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:29,920
of the pedestrians walk particularly the
little kids walking to school but it's

511
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:36,000
not our jurisdiction now so that doesn't
really factor into our decision lawsuit

512
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:39,280
and I just I could not go for a
roundabout unless you gave me assurance

513
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:43,760
that the type same type of safety
protection was provided here that exists

514
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:48,160
on at Middle Belt in Maple and at
Farmington and Maple with with

515
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:51,920
Bernstein's lawsuit. Remember, he sued
him about handicap. You'll have no

516
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,920
ability for handicapped people to cross
that street

517
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:59,119
and I am really worried about this. The
only thing

518
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:06,640
» I would May I add to that? Um, may I ask
so is this is the um

519
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:10,320
the other the county willing to pay for
crosswalks that light up when someone

520
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,480
pushes the button
>> and they're ra I know they're going to

521
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:18,480
be raised but are they willing to stop
the traffic when a person is going by

522
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:22,400
because
>> uh we had a whole room of people here

523
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:28,079
and they weren't our city residents they
were the other city residents but there

524
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:32,320
there's a huge number of people that
this affects and I think we have a moral

525
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:37,599
responsibility for these children's
safety and the only way I would approve

526
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:42,880
and I'm with Allen is a roundabout and I
love roundabouts driving but I don't

527
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:48,240
love and don't understand I would I
would like to I would only approve a

528
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:54,480
roundabout if under the condition that
the crosswalks were raised and lit and

529
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:57,760
the traffic had to stop when a person
was pushed the button and they were

530
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,920
going across I don't mind if the button
only

531
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:06,079
» and I would only approve it if there is
a stop sign on Loser between Hickory

532
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,760
Grove and Long Lake.
>> So, I can comment on uh some of the

533
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:14,240
safety features that they're talking
about with the roundabout and you hit

534
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:19,440
you you uh touched on one is the raised
pavement and that really supposedly

535
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:22,319
really slows the cars down. They also
talked about, I was looking for the

536
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:27,359
acronym, but it's essentially a a light
system where you walk up to the uh where

537
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:31,200
you would cross the roundabout area,
which is set off from the roundabout.

538
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:36,240
You would push a button and would be
amber lights that light. It wouldn't be

539
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:39,280
red lights. So, you know, it just it's
signaling drivers from a distance that

540
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,640
someone's going to cross.
>> That's not sufficient. A yellow light.

541
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:44,960
» What do we have? What do they
>> That's not sufficient.

542
00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:47,520
» What do we have at Farmington Maple?
traffic.

543
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:48,800
» Uh I think it's uh uh
>> signals.

544
00:41:48,319 --> 00:41:51,520
» What's that?
>> They're called hawk signals where you

545
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:56,079
walk up to them and they're flashing
pedestrians which in theory once they're

546
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,800
lit they're as good as a red light if
you

547
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,560
» Yeah, that's what we need.
>> But but that's what he's talking about.

548
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,720
They're amber flashing big lights and
there's a sign that lights up.

549
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,359
Pedestrian cross. It's
>> not It's not the Hawk though.

550
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,680
» It's not the Hawk.
>> I think we need I saw it in Atlanta

551
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:17,040
where you push it and it's I They were
red in Atlanta. I don't know. I mean, a

552
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:21,520
yellow light to a car means slow down.
>> Pedestrian flashing is the same on

553
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:24,960
traffic stop, same as a traffic control
device, it's the same as a red light.

554
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,960
You have to same as a yellow flashlight
for fire trucks, guys. Like, if you run

555
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:34,160
that, it's equivalent to running a red
light. Plus, we might get

556
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:39,119
» what one thing I'd like to just comment
on in regards to the safety. Um, I think

557
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:45,839
we need to consider also that with a
roundabout, the traffic approaching, all

558
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:51,440
traffic has to slow down. So, the cars
coming to the roundabout are going to be

559
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:54,319
going slower at all times than cars that
are just passing through.

560
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,880
» They can still hit a child and hurt a
child going 25. What I'm saying though

561
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,880
is
>> going

562
00:42:57,359 --> 00:43:01,680
» when you've got the green light on a
normal intersection that's not a

563
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,359
roundabout,
>> you can have cars flying through there

564
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,640
at 40 miles an hour and somebody's
trying to cross

565
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:13,599
» and that's where the danger is. With a
roundabout, all cars have to stop.

566
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,119
» Stop light, people have to stop.
>> I agree that there should be some kind

567
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:21,520
of a light indicating a crossing. The
other factor that we should consider is

568
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:25,359
that when crossing a normal
intersection, you have to be looking

569
00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:28,160
left, you have to be looking right. You
have to make sure that everything's

570
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,079
clear from both sides. With a
roundabout, you only have to look one

571
00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:39,040
way. The traffic is only coming from one
direction. So, it's easier, safer to

572
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:42,640
cross on a roundabout than it is in my
mind than a normal intersection.

573
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:46,720
» It It matters what roundabout you got.
If you're talking about

574
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:51,920
if you're talking about it's not even
true at Maple and Lasser. I mean I I did

575
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:58,000
the condemnations when they did the
acquisition of the corners and then I

576
00:43:54,560 --> 00:44:02,240
think about Greenfield at 12 and 13 and
a half mile 12 and a half mile. There's

577
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:05,359
one on Greenfield the small roundabout
which is something akin to what we're

578
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:10,560
going to have. there was no real
acquisitions

579
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:13,839
and you know it's sort of fun to run
over the curb a little bit sometimes.

580
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,760
I'm not supposed to admit that. I'm
really worried.

581
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:20,160
» I think it's an important thing to
consider and to understand that every

582
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:24,079
single car that goes through that
roundabout is going to be at a slow

583
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,160
speed.
>> That is not the case with a normal

584
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,800
intersection.
>> Slower speed. At this roundabout, if you

585
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:35,680
drive down Greenfield, you're going at a
slower speed, not slow speed. I bet you

586
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:40,720
if it's it's 35 miles long.
>> This is a compact roundabout. You can't

587
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:44,240
go through it at speeds probably greater
than what 20 miles an hour 15 something

588
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:47,920
like that if that
>> 10 to 12 or something.

589
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,079
» So it it's going to slow the cars down
and not not only that it's going to slow

590
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:57,119
down every single car that comes to the
intersection.

591
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,400
» It doesn't eliminate the chance of them
hitting

592
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:06,560
» well seeing a child completely. But
>> seeing a child, that's the problem.

593
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:10,880
» I think it it may seem counterintuitive,
but I think that after reading this in

594
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,720
detail and really understanding how it
works, I'm in full support of a

595
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:19,520
roundabout. As long as we have indicator
lights that that indicate that

596
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:22,880
somebody's trying to cross because
traffic's already going to be going

597
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,000
slowly at that point and you're just
saying, "Hey, I need to cross." They'll

598
00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:31,760
stop. You can cross.
>> We need to indicate. We need to verify

599
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:34,960
what kind of indicator lights if we
>> are we paying for these even though

600
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,880
because the crossing is on the township
side

601
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,960
of the
>> well it

602
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:45,200
I mean I don't I I don't know how
>> it sounds like they're splitting it in

603
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:48,480
half and that their half has all the
cross signals

604
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,839
» so they should be paying for those.
>> It's certainly something we I can

605
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:57,839
address. Uh and that's it's a fair
point. Um, I I can say that the lights

606
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:01,040
the way they explained it to me that
they're they're really the way the the

607
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:06,160
roundabout's going to be set up because
the ray race pavement the sight distance

608
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:10,560
for those lights is going to even be
better than what's currently there. So,

609
00:46:09,359 --> 00:46:14,800
» what lights are you referring to,
please? So, um, the amber lights that

610
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:18,640
you push up, so if someone were to
cross, let's say, uh, they're on they're

611
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:24,400
on Hickory Grove and they want to cross
on the north side of Hickory Grove, you

612
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:28,720
know, either way, um, across Lasser,
there would be a a a button on each

613
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:33,440
side. You you press a button and they
would start flashing the person to to

614
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:36,240
Commissioner Baxter's point, if you're
walking westbound, you would look to

615
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,359
your right to see if any cars are
coming. If you're walking eastbound,

616
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:43,599
you'd look to your left, look northbound
to see if any cars are coming, but you'd

617
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:46,240
only be looking for the one car coming.
And if it's wide open,

618
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:51,040
» if you're old enough to be a driver and
know that that's flow traffic. I mean, a

619
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:56,400
little kid may not.
>> Well, I I guess what I'm saying is that

620
00:46:52,720 --> 00:47:00,560
the the lights uh should notify a
driver, let's say, that's driving

621
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,640
southbound on Lasser quite a distance
away. Uh and then the person crossing

622
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:10,079
can make a determination if they feel
it's safe or not.

623
00:47:06,319 --> 00:47:14,079
But I I'm not this is not uh my
proposal. I'm just bringing the options

624
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:20,000
and uh I will you know
>> can we ask them to specify what kind of

625
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:25,920
cross signal they would put in and
>> yeah it is the am the ambient lights for

626
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:30,000
it and we we don't have to pay for it.
That's a fair point. I I think and I

627
00:47:27,839 --> 00:47:34,640
think that probably could be could be
taken care of certainly that we wouldn't

628
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:37,280
have to pay for the for the lights for
the crossing of the lights there. That

629
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,280
that's a fair point. I can certainly
talk to him about that. I'm trying to

630
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:45,520
find the the acronym of what it
>> RF RFPs.

631
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:50,400
» Yes. So, what does that stand for?
>> Good type. They're the but they are the

632
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:54,640
push button signalized white lights for
pedestrian crossings just like

633
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:59,599
» but they don't they're not red and so
they're not so that's the difference

634
00:47:56,319 --> 00:48:02,880
that that the red ones I think were
>> yeah but I mean it's still illegal it's

635
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:08,079
still illegal to cross one of those
whether pedestrian crosswalk so they act

636
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:12,720
as an enforcement agent whether they're
yellow or red was my point before

637
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,599
» I beg to differ
>> but I mean yeah

638
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:20,000
» those are just less than a hawk signal
hawk signal stop all traffic in all

639
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,960
directions.
>> And I think the reason why they don't

640
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:26,160
want that hawk signal to stop in all
directions because you're defeating the

641
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:33,040
purpose of the actual roundabout. And
that's the

642
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:37,839
» logic doing it like twice a mornings and
nights at school, right? I mean, is that

643
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:42,160
right? You know, kids don't
>> 8:00 and

644
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,440
» Yeah. I like
>> that's when all the calls are.

645
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,640
» Yeah. I would go that's real. Uh, I
think you'd want to have an officer out

646
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:52,720
there from that jurisdiction doing the
crossing in my opinion.

647
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,839
» That would be the township.
>> Yeah. I don't know if the chief has any

648
00:48:54,240 --> 00:49:00,319
comment on that.
>> I know that Pville Township is

649
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:06,400
responsible for staffing those two
problems and they doing everything they

650
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:11,559
can to do that and they are facing
significant hurdles to do that.

651
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,839
We like to help the problem as uh from a
liability standpoint. I wouldn't want

652
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:22,720
those officers out there.
>> Yeah.

653
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:26,480
» And I I think you can you know it's like
you can't always have an officer out

654
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:32,160
there. So we need the proper crosswalk
in place. You just can't

655
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,520
» that's the only way I would ever approve
a a roundabout.

656
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:40,160
» The solution for that would be those
Amber signals for the roundabout

657
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:45,520
component of it. There are
most expensive one probably has a signal

658
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:49,359
you can push the button and
cross but it essentially would only be

659
00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:52,640
for
north side and the west side

660
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,000
but
>> and the other problem with the

661
00:49:53,599 --> 00:50:02,400
roundabout is the flow of traffic would
be non-stop on Lawer and everybody all

662
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:07,559
of us coming out of our subdivisions we
can't get out now. So if you if you add

663
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,559
the roundabout,

664
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:13,599
» that's why we that's why
Commissioner Fischer is asking for the

665
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:18,240
stop sign.
>> We'd like them the stop signs that were

666
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:22,240
were removed to be put back.
>> I think there have been a lot more

667
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:27,520
accidents coming out of our sub than you
have records of.

668
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:35,440
There was, you know, when I first moved
here 20 years ago, there was a stop sign

669
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:38,480
like for the first
12, 14 years at least

670
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,880
» when they closed the high school. That's
when they stop.

671
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,480
» They took them out when they they were
doing the construction on the high

672
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:45,119
school.
>> Is that when they took them out?

673
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,720
» Or as
>> they should have put them back. I mean,

674
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:54,240
» I asked Dave about remember when they
did the high school and they put a light

675
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:57,680
up there. remember there was a light
>> there at the high school and Dave said

676
00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:01,280
he doesn't remember or doesn't know who
put it. Somebody put a light up there.

677
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:04,720
» I don't know who put it there but I do
know that the high school and the middle

678
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:08,960
school the traffic flow I think is
different the whole the setup. So that

679
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:12,319
could be one component of it but
>> a lot less people coming out of the high

680
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:17,040
school driving. There's there you know
they got more buses coming in. Yes.

681
00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:21,119
» Just just just another thing to consider
about adding a stop sign. I mean, if you

682
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:27,040
think about what we're trying to do,
we're trying to create a delay so that

683
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:31,359
people can get out of their driveways.
And what the roundabout does is

684
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:35,760
essentially that because the time that
it takes to get from

685
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:40,559
where you enter the roundabout to where
you exit the roundabout, you're creating

686
00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:46,720
a delay. And in fact, that delay is
probably longer than what is going to be

687
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:50,559
in reality a rolling stop at those stop
signs.

688
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:54,160
So, I don't know that it's
>> it's a role. I mean, you can't say that

689
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,480
people stop at the roundabout. They
don't.

690
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,880
» They don't stop at the roundabout, but
they they they do stop at the

691
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,280
roundabout, but they don't stop at the
stop.

692
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:05,680
» Time that it takes to get through a
roundabout, which is creating the the

693
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:09,280
delay. It takes time to go through.
>> It slows people down, but it doesn't

694
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:12,480
create that. It doesn't change the gap.
The guy in front of you is slowing down.

695
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:19,680
You're slowing down, but your your cars
are consecutively flowing through there.

696
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:24,480
I don't think the roundabout solves I it
doesn't solve the traffic problem on

697
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:32,559
Lasser in front of the middle school.
>> I would agree. It doesn't I mean you're

698
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:37,359
still going to have um and I you can say
it's different between high school and

699
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:45,760
middle school but I happen to know the
PTO president of that middle school and

700
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:50,319
she's like every parent drives because
they all have extracurricular activities

701
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:56,240
after school or things like that and
they don't and the bus services now are

702
00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:00,160
longer routes than what they were
before. So, they have to get home early,

703
00:52:58,319 --> 00:53:04,079
you know, earlier or whatever. So, you
have a lot of parents. I mean, she was

704
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:10,000
the first one that admitted to me. She
said, "Yeah." She goes, "It's it's awful

705
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:13,040
in that school picking up your child."
And she said, "I cut through the parking

706
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,640
lot. I'm not supposed to, but that's
what we do."

707
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:22,240
» Yeah. Well, what the I think that the
exit at the north end is from from my

708
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:25,520
experience yesterday, the exit to the
north end is not attached directly to

709
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,800
the parking lot.
>> Correct. Yes, it is. You're right.

710
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,559
» Because I went my son took the first
tour yesterday. We went in the circle

711
00:53:30,319 --> 00:53:37,599
came out. It doesn't
>> And uh those people coming out in the

712
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:42,960
morning at 8:00. That line looks like
it's 25, 30 yards deep sometimes and

713
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:46,800
it's so stressful and I just stop and
let 30 people come out when there's a

714
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,839
second there because it's like they
can't get out otherwise. No,

715
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:54,319
» but the roundabout, our problems with
the roundabout is just beginning because

716
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:58,559
when they do the work on Woodward,
>> the weight is going to be down to lot to

717
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:03,040
to Long Lake Road.
>> It is. It's going it's inevitable

718
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:07,440
because it's almost approaching Hickory
Grove now going out on the onto Square

719
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,119
Lake Road.
>> That's true.

720
00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:12,480
» And the way you got to do this, you go
down Hickory to Woodward than to go

721
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,160
north now. That won't be available
anymore,

722
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,440
» right?
>> You know, it's it's going to be a long

723
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,160
couple years no matter what you do.
>> What are they thinking of doing this if

724
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,040
they do
>> not till after they fix Woodward?

725
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,240
Correct.
>> Yeah. They they they wouldn't even start

726
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:29,280
it till 2029.
>> Okay. That would be something that that

727
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,800
So, this isn't something you have to
make a decision about tonight.

728
00:54:30,319 --> 00:54:36,240
Certainly, and I can I can always ask
more questions. As a matter of fact, I

729
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,599
could ask them to come back,
>> talk to you more if you like.

730
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:45,280
» Can you um verify whether or not they
will pay for the crosswalks themselves

731
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:51,520
and and what kind of crosswalk they
would pay for and to show us,

732
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:55,599
» you know, video pictures?
>> Do that.

733
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:57,680
» Yeah. I you know and
>> it might be helpful.

734
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:02,880
» In the meantime, can we put the stop
signs back?

735
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:06,319
» I I I I will uh you know I don't know.
>> I don't know why we're getting so much

736
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:10,640
resistance when there are people in the
commission that would like them. People

737
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:13,440
in this in the room that would like them
that live residents want them.

738
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,559
» All those parents would
>> all the parents of the school want them.

739
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:22,240
I I what what is
>> I apologize for any uh for any

740
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:26,960
resistance at all. I just I I look to
our experts about this and I I do know

741
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:31,040
from being in long time ago being in law
enforcement that you have to have

742
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:34,079
traffic control orders for these things.
You have to have an approval for that.

743
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,960
So if you don't have a if you don't have
a traffic control order and I don't know

744
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:40,400
uh
>> it's not legally enforceable.

745
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:43,200
» It's not legally enforceable and it
could be a liability issue.

746
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:47,040
» Well, how were these stop signs in place
before? They were legally enforceable at

747
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:51,599
one point. Why why was that enforcement
taken away? they were in place before.

748
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:56,720
» Well, I do know that uh when I came here
as a as a public safety director in

749
00:55:53,520 --> 00:56:02,240
2013, the whole majority of the city did
not have TCOs and they made that change.

750
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:06,160
» Well, do we have to I mean then let's
get the process rolling and and ask for

751
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:10,160
one and say we would like one
>> chief.

752
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:15,760
We did that. I I did the study. I went
worked with Oakland County and then just

753
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:20,400
to be uh very transparent, clear not to
just use my recommendation as law

754
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,680
enforcement official. We asked for an
external study from

755
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,520
» I remember they came and they said, "Oh,
it's gonna

756
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:33,440
» it didn't fit where it didn't fit under
Michigan law to require

757
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:39,920
a stop sign." If we when those stop
signs were there at some point, um the

758
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:44,640
officers that worked here laughed and
joked about it because they were not

759
00:56:42,319 --> 00:56:49,440
legal stop signs. When we went to court,
the stop signs that that were when they

760
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:53,280
would write a stop stop sign violation
and they went to court, it got dismissed

761
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:58,960
if someone knew the law to push it
because they were not valid at the time.

762
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:02,160
» And so that started,
>> well, what can we do to get some stop

763
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:06,720
signs and make them valid? What can we
do? What is the best effort? What can we

764
00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:10,480
do to change that?
>> I'll I'll take a step backwards. I I'll

765
00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:12,160
let them be invalid. What do we do to
get a stop sign even if they're not

766
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,359
valid?
>> That's what I'm asking.

767
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:17,440
» Yeah, they were invalid for 12 15 years.
You know,

768
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:22,079
» I mean, it worked before that.
>> Isn't there a ruling if it's in place

769
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:24,640
for so long like a path like
>> eminent domain or not eminent domain,

770
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:29,119
what's that called?
>> I remember it non-conforming.

771
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:33,760
» And I also remember having our traffic
people do all the CCOs's across the

772
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:38,640
entire community with uh Jeff Rumbley
and other people because we had none.

773
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:42,079
The issue starts to become you put one
in, you know, it's uninforceable. So,

774
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,680
are you going to write are you going to
write tickets for it? What are you going

775
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:50,640
to do about it? roll it or do anything
bad. What happens if you do pull someone

776
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:54,319
over and they then it's a then other
charges you pull them over illegally and

777
00:57:52,960 --> 00:58:00,559
now you have these other charges and
other things for what I guess I'm I'm

778
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:04,799
concerned from a track from an
engineering standpoint with traffic

779
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:08,559
engineers
is that is that the right solution what

780
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:13,280
are we trying to solve for the right
solution is this the right solution I

781
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:17,680
think it's a slippery slope and I have
communities that go around stop signs

782
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:20,640
and we pull them all out because they
don't get that.

783
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:25,920
» What we're trying to
>> What we're trying to solve for here is

784
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:32,400
the traffic on Lassa Road has gotten
extremely I mean it was bad before. It's

785
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:38,160
got it's extremely heavy traffic not
allowing residents and also the school

786
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:42,960
people to get out. There's no stopping
loss of road between

787
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:48,319
» a very long fun road to drive and speed
on that but a lot of people So,

788
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:53,359
» so you want the honest answer is center
left turn lanes and a big and I mean do

789
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:58,079
do a road project to solve that issue
with left hand turns and people coming

790
00:58:55,040 --> 00:59:02,079
out do the do a road job
>> do a mini do a mini roundabout there by

791
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,119
the school and it would help a lot.
>> No, but the issue the issue is you can't

792
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:08,720
turn if you can't turn left or you're
stacked up and people turning left. This

793
00:59:06,799 --> 00:59:12,799
what I last coming southbound want to
turn left and this you can't. So you

794
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,920
stack traffic up. So put in a left turn
lane so someone turn left. If someone

795
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:20,240
wants to turn left in the school and get
them out of traffic that then also that

796
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:24,559
also produces gaps. But now you're
talking about going down that road and

797
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:29,119
making a three-lane road by every tree
that's in that right way. I mean that if

798
00:59:27,359 --> 00:59:33,440
if the solution is safety solution is
turned in and out of the subdivision,

799
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:38,160
it's not it's a road change, not a stop
sign. In my this is my be back up with

800
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:41,440
» we just all lived with the stop sign and
it wasn't bad when the stop signs were

801
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:47,440
there because the stop signs stopped
>> the traffic flow

802
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:50,799
» one minute one half of you know
>> why don't it worked so it just a plus b

803
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:54,880
I don't know
>> what about a stop there was a stop light

804
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:58,319
there before what what someone do with
it

805
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:02,240
» again what happened before and the
warrants now are not the same thing we

806
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:05,440
do not have the traffic warrants or the
volumes of the turns do that. I know we

807
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:10,559
feel that way. I know we feel that way
and believe me, I understand that and a

808
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:14,799
young kid, teenager as well.
But when people were talking about

809
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:19,440
what's the for me to help give him a
TCO, you're kind of there's not a lot

810
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:23,680
you could do. I'm sorry,
>> but if if you knew that we we wouldn't

811
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:27,359
approve a roundabout unless there was a
stop sign.

812
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:30,240
I I think the two are mutually exclusive
and I think

813
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:35,200
» they're not at all because if you have a
stop light at Hickory Grove and Lawer

814
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,280
instead of a roundabout, then people
have to stop and the flow of traffic

815
01:00:36,799 --> 01:00:41,119
stops.
>> At least it's stopped in one direction.

816
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,920
» Well, remember remember the roundabout,
you're assuming that everybody in the

817
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,480
roundabout goes southbound. Not
everybody goes southbound. A lot of

818
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,240
people go straight. A lot of people go
north and a lot people turn in different

819
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:53,280
directions on that. So what you're
really doing is you're stopping the

820
01:00:51,760 --> 01:01:00,000
people from going straight through, but
you're not left turns on southbound

821
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:03,839
either. So, I wouldn't be
I wouldn't be so certain that the

822
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:08,160
roundabout isn't going to provide a
similar amount of gaps.

823
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:12,319
» Can I can I ask during rush hour,
does the eastbound traffic on Hickory

824
01:01:10,319 --> 01:01:15,760
Grove
exceed the westbound traffic

825
01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:17,760
dramatically or is it because of the
left turn?

826
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:21,359
» I don't know.
>> Okay. What I'm saying is the traffic

827
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:27,520
coming this way,
it's backed up 40, 50 cars because

828
01:01:25,839 --> 01:01:32,559
people like me are taking I go to
Hickory left to come down Loster and I

829
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:39,599
gave up on on going down going north on
Loster. Is there is there is there more

830
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:45,200
traffic really going northbound from the
west or is it because they can't make a

831
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:49,640
left turn that that it backs up so much?
>> We can get we can get the number. I

832
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,640
don't remember.

833
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:57,280
» I I think we're going to The reality is
you're probably going to get stuck in

834
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:03,040
the roundabout,
but it's not going to help

835
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:08,400
get the people on the east side of
Lasser north of Hickory to school

836
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:14,480
without help.
>> Yes, sir.

837
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:19,599
» I I I think we're talking about a couple
different things. Um One of the major

838
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:24,160
concerns that the parents have that the
community members have presented to me

839
01:02:21,839 --> 01:02:29,599
was it wasn't straight through traffic.
It's turning traffic that is endangering

840
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:34,079
the kids. It's not people going 40 miles
an hour. It's people that are going

841
01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:38,960
westbound on Deree Grove turning right
to as the kids are crossing. It's not

842
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:43,200
speeding through traffic. It's not
through traffic. It's turning traffic.

843
01:02:41,359 --> 01:02:47,680
It's turning traffic that that's going
right or possibly even If you're coming

844
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:49,839
through on a roundabout, don't you come
through and then you turn right.

845
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:54,880
» I'm sorry.
>> If you're coming west on Hickory Grove

846
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:58,319
and you're going north, you turn right.
If you're coming west and you want to go

847
01:02:57,599 --> 01:03:02,000
» go north,
>> you turn left. So, and there's also

848
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:07,200
there's also
>> No, you take the first right.

849
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:11,040
» So, round you go around it.
>> You just said people coming west that

850
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,839
want to go north are turning right and
that's what everyone's concerned about.

851
01:03:12,319 --> 01:03:16,960
But in a roundabout, wouldn't you still
be doing that? I'm talking about what it

852
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:21,119
is right now. I'm not talking about the
roundabout. I'm talking about the

853
01:03:18,559 --> 01:03:23,520
dangers that have been presented to us
that we've gone to.

854
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:30,960
» I'm just suggesting that that same
danger would exist with a roundabout.

855
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:33,960
» And I think we as parents agree a lot
when

856
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:44,160
they're supposed to stop and wait and
let pedestrians cross, but they don't.

857
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,400
They see a gap and they try to shoot.
>> Absolutely.

858
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:50,319
» So they don't see
>> they don't they aren't even looking at

859
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:55,680
what's coming across the street.
>> What we have what we have now

860
01:03:53,119 --> 01:04:01,920
» without without a clear left turn light
and a walk sign going across going

861
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:07,039
across lasser is violently dangerous
>> and it's monkey see monkey do. If the

862
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:12,640
person behind them sees one car, then
the next one just keeps going

863
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:15,920
where the kids can't cross because they
see those cars just shooting through.

864
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,680
So, it's not
>> so sorry.

865
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:22,319
» So, I
>> What do you What would you suggest? You

866
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:27,359
don't live in the city. What do you
suggest we do?

867
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:33,200
» I I would prefer a signal with like a
also like a no turn on red

868
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:38,480
» because that gives a definite stop.
pedestrians to cross with the

869
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:43,680
roundabout. Although it would be slower
and if they have a button to press and

870
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:46,640
there's lights, that still doesn't mean
that traffic is going to stop because

871
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:52,160
they already don't stop when they're
supposed to. So, if it's just like a

872
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:59,119
caution, hey, they're still not going to
stop. I don't see them stopping for the

873
01:04:55,599 --> 01:05:05,599
kids. And then also on the roundabout,
the road commission pointed out that it

874
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:13,760
would be two points to cross one side of
the street because there will be um like

875
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:17,839
medians. So it'll be two times on one
side that the kids have to cross and

876
01:05:15,839 --> 01:05:23,280
then two more times that they have to
cross to go south.

877
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:27,400
So that's another point
with the light going

878
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:34,160
around but then traffic coming the other
way. So it's going to be

879
01:05:42,319 --> 01:05:45,200
We ask for other
>> We don't have to make the decision

880
01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:49,119
today, do we?
>> Yeah, we don't.

881
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:53,839
» No, I mean, would you I I I could offer
the county to come back and I can

882
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:58,319
certainly find out about your question
about who would pay for those those

883
01:05:55,839 --> 01:06:03,760
lights. Um I guess there is some
information if you there's the

884
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:08,000
replace the basic lights. Probably
wouldn't have the things that the the

885
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,920
folks here recommend. So, you'd probably
have to have a full-blown light system

886
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:16,880
if you're if you're going to go to the
lights. It would encroach into the

887
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:21,920
property around. And then there's the
other probably really only two options

888
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:28,000
really is that the the best light system
or um the roundabout. But I maybe we can

889
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:31,760
bring them back. We can show you some
pictures and video or something.

890
01:06:29,839 --> 01:06:36,480
» Yeah, maybe we do. Chief
You said you went in and talked to the

891
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:41,680
principal at the school
>> and they were less than friendly or

892
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:45,839
» I wouldn't say that they just they were
happy with what they had there.

893
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:52,319
» Huh.
>> They were happy with what they had.

894
01:06:47,359 --> 01:06:59,640
» The parents aren't. Have you ISIS
we received similar feedback from

895
01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:59,640
» as far as

896
01:06:59,839 --> 01:07:06,720
the the intersections two different
things. We addressed

897
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:12,480
the traffic flow that they have
established with their uh construction

898
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:17,200
company the way they have their um
traffic flow pattern set up for the

899
01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:21,680
school drop off and everything. They are
happy with what they have now with the

900
01:07:19,039 --> 01:07:24,319
buses and the parent drop off. They
don't want any more stop signs or

901
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,839
anything on
>> I can't I'll tell you one thing. They

902
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:32,799
got it easy because their buses go off
on the other side and they they exit

903
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:35,200
where there's nobody giving them a
problem and they go south when they come

904
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,280
out of the school.
>> All the buses get to be where the

905
01:07:37,359 --> 01:07:43,440
athletic field is that lower,
>> right? It's easy.

906
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:47,440
» It's past where all the subdivisions
come out. It's past where the school

907
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:50,559
parents come out. They have their own
little private entrance exit

908
01:07:49,359 --> 01:07:53,200
practically. Right.
>> Absolutely. It's

909
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:57,760
» so that's why the school
>> so is happy with the situation is

910
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:04,640
everything we can do.
>> Um we are we

911
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:08,720
we are doing more than
what a typical police department would

912
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:12,160
do or public safety. We do appreciate
all your communication

913
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:17,440
» and and we are going and trying to do
things through the end of last school

914
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:22,640
year um when we're stretched. We're all
stretched in but we're do we're doing

915
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:26,239
it. Um we're also putting up the speed
school school speed limit signs that

916
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,759
that
>> Yeah. When are those going up?

917
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:38,000
» They're going to be in uh by the end of
the month. Um they're waiting on some uh

918
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:42,560
specific coloring for school zones. Um
the signage what the signage should be

919
01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:46,400
picked up uh this week and installed by
next week. That's what we're hoping.

920
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,560
» School speed being 15 miles an hour.
>> 25.

921
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:50,480
» You can't.
>> It's already 25, isn't it?

922
01:08:50,159 --> 01:08:53,719
» Yes,
>> it's 25.

923
01:08:54,080 --> 01:09:02,080
» No.
>> So we have we in last year's budget, we

924
01:08:58,799 --> 01:09:06,480
put a traffic monitoring program
together with SDK urban SDK and we've

925
01:09:04,719 --> 01:09:11,120
been monitoring it. We get it. We get
weekly

926
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:22,000
daily monthly reports on the top five
roads in blue hills that are above uh

927
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:26,319
above uh 85% of speed and we deploy our
officers out there to take force

928
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:31,520
management. Lasser is not one of those
roads

929
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:36,480
uh and well I should say but it is one
of the roads it's anywhere from 10 to 11

930
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:40,799
miles hour
The average that we are finding in in

931
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:44,640
vehicle speed when we go out there and
do enforcement action that is confirmed

932
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:49,560
we are going out there and we're
stopping people for 9 10 11

933
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:57,199
» 35
>> 35 36 is is the range

934
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:03,440
» school
>> go ahead school what the school signs do

935
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:08,480
is they give us double fine we give more
more fine on the fine side doubles the

936
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:10,560
I'm sorry, Amy. Should these people give
their name and address, please? Could

937
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:11,280
you?
>> Sure.

938
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:16,400
» Thank you.
>> Yeah, Bill 236

939
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:21,199
res been attending these for a while.
Appreciate you guys continuing to bring

940
01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:25,679
it up as a concern for all of us and I
are trying to stay tight with the group

941
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:30,400
of individuals that have been showing up
to these meetings in the past. um that

942
01:10:27,679 --> 01:10:35,760
would express an interest in trying to
go back to the consensus that was in the

943
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:39,920
room back in April or May when there
were maybe a dozen families that were

944
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:43,920
rooting for that other option that's not
the roundabout that is the traffic

945
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:47,080
that's going to take us three years in
any way

946
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:57,280
option I know that I I saw the study I
saw what they were talking about I think

947
01:10:54,320 --> 01:11:01,760
they were thinking more of traffic flow
for traffic safety for individuals and

948
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:05,199
we we do save the children for the
morning and the afternoon that is very

949
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:08,239
important. Obviously children tug at our
start strings. We have two middle

950
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:11,199
schoolers but there is a lot of
residents that just want to ride their

951
01:11:09,679 --> 01:11:15,360
bike or go for a walk at that
intersection too. And if you think about

952
01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:19,840
the general safety of the community and
totality, I really truly believe and all

953
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:24,719
the dozens of families that came here
that live in that area, I truly believe

954
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:29,679
that a a better just cross light non
roundabout situation, the option two

955
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:33,440
that was provided by ROC
is the better way to go.

956
01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:36,400
» Can I suggest that you get a petition
going?

957
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:40,480
» Absolutely. and you present it to your
city and ask them to put some money

958
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:46,960
towards this
>> because it benefits you the most and all

959
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:53,040
of your the township the most. And if if
they would come forward with helping to

960
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:56,960
pay with for you know to to make the
cost the same to us whether we have a

961
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:01,679
roundabout or a
>> a light that would make a huge

962
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:06,800
difference. Wouldn't you all agree? I
this is a great idea and um I'll because

963
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:09,440
so the light is what a million dollars
right

964
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:12,640
» two million but
yeah so the problem

965
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:17,679
» for the city ourselves I thought we paid
half that million for us our challenge

966
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:21,679
here is we have a $13 million budget
>> that's you guys have a huge budget I

967
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:25,199
mean if if you could
>> ask them to pay at least half of it if

968
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:31,040
if you show the power of the people
>> like that I mean we're a great idea

969
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:34,560
we're happy to support it we don't know
very well. So if there's any instruction

970
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:39,199
maybe
>> I think the the best path is you have

971
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:43,920
you are taxpaying residents in the
township and it affects you and if if

972
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:49,280
you could appeal to your city that would
be terrific

973
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:54,560
» and I would offer I mean any of us would
and just mayor by title but um I would

974
01:12:52,719 --> 01:12:58,400
go with the chief and one of you guys
and go into that school district and

975
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:03,199
talk to that principal and I would get
them because that's you know you're

976
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:07,360
We're we're all paying taxes for the
school district, right?

977
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:12,400
» And so they should be able to contribute
too. The schools should do something. So

978
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:14,800
if you had us and the county and you had
the school, we should probably go to the

979
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:18,159
super.
>> Sounds like a stretch though. If she

980
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:20,400
doesn't really care a little bit more
receptive.

981
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:23,520
» I was going to say, you know what, I
wouldn't do the principal. I I don't

982
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:28,239
know who the superintendent is now, but
I would go to the superintendent.

983
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:36,719
And I this has to be a collaborative
effort on everybody's part to do this.

984
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:41,040
Um I and don't get us wrong, we agree
a light would be a lot better. The 2

985
01:13:39,199 --> 01:13:44,159
million, it's a little bit heavy for us,
but let's try to figure out a way how to

986
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:49,280
get the 2 million.
>> Whether it be done by grant, taxes, the

987
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:53,360
school district,
>> the county, we can look we'll see what

988
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:59,520
we can do. Does that work?
>> That's right.

989
01:13:55,120 --> 01:14:06,760
I I just want it clear the principal's
reaction and the principal's involvement

990
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,760
was for the losser issue not to be loser

991
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:14,239
they're two separate things I just that
principal really doesn't understand she

992
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:17,679
should ask the parents the students in
that school how they feel about it

993
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:22,480
because I'm convinced that they feel
different you've got to drive that you

994
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:26,000
know I drive that street at 8 7:30 or 8
in the morning when these cars are

995
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:31,040
backed Yeah, there all these big things
that I couldn't drive and like one after

996
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:34,480
another for four for their two kids or
three kids. There's no way that those

997
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,760
people would accept their principal
saying that if they knew they'd say they

998
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:44,040
want the kid to go to a different
school.

999
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,040
Just a little com.

1000
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:57,400
» Oh, that's a
>> that's a good point.

1001
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:04,520
» Yeah.
>> I'm sorry. Can you just state your name

1002
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,520
for Amy?

1003
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,760
» Okay. She knows who. Okay. Thank you.
Um,

1004
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:12,880
» thank you for coming.
>> Yeah. Thank you for coming. This this is

1005
01:15:09,679 --> 01:15:16,480
a big concern. Lasser is a big concern.
We don't have the best, you know,

1006
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:21,520
approach of what we want to do. We just
know we it needs to slow down. We need

1007
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:26,960
to we need to manage the traffic and the
crosswalk. Absolutely.

1008
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:30,080
» Okay. Anything else? We don't have to
make a decision, but we got some

1009
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,400
» Would you like me to bring or ask the
road commission to come back?

1010
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:36,560
» Yes, please.
>> You know, could we could we take a look

1011
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:40,560
at grants?
>> I got to believe there's some type of

1012
01:15:38,719 --> 01:15:43,440
Yeah,
>> safety grant. Yeah,

1013
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:46,800
» we have looked at some. Um, it would be
helpful if we knew the direction and

1014
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:49,760
then we we could apply.
>> I don't know if inviting them back right

1015
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:53,920
now would help. They would just tell us
the same thing. I I think if you could

1016
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:57,760
find out if they will pay for the
crosswalks, the hawk like crosswalk,

1017
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:00,239
» we'll do that.
>> That would help.

1018
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,880
» Yep.
>> I mean, if you think it would help for

1019
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,840
them to come back, but I don't,
>> you know, if you look at quad, I bet you

1020
01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:10,719
could find some grants for us.
>> I remember talking to a safe routes to

1021
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:13,719
school program through Michigan and they
provide

1022
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:20,719
» why don't you why don't you go for it
but hey

1023
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:28,800
» you really should have
>> those aren't all necessarily so

1024
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:31,920
crossings are in the township so
>> why don't you talk to your township

1025
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:36,640
about doing that apply for the grants
>> yeah that would be a good idea

1026
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:39,760
» I'll say you guys are very receptive
We'll try our best.

1027
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:43,719
» Okay.
>> You can't even vote for us.

1028
01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:47,760
» Don't worry about it. Exactly.
>> I'm hoping they come back in 15 months.

1029
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:51,760
» Yeah.
>> But on Tuesdays, I'll be home with my

1030
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:57,679
wife.
>> Thank you very much. Okay. Productive

1031
01:16:54,480 --> 01:17:04,320
anyway. Um Okay. The next item on the
agenda and um apologize. Everybody, you

1032
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:07,920
know, said what's this all about? um is
to hear an update from Mayor McCarthy,

1033
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:14,000
myself on the planning commission
ordinance amendment process. So um I

1034
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:18,239
wanted to so everybody's on the same
page as far as the moratorum. We started

1035
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:23,760
this moratorum I believe it was in
February, correct? And we've extended it

1036
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:30,000
and it's actually due up today. That's
when it's due. Um I know that uh there's

1037
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:36,880
been a lot of questions. What is it? Why
did we do it? Was it really worth it?

1038
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:41,360
Um, and I wanted to tell you it's it's
been an interesting process with the

1039
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:45,920
planning commission because they
actually in the last two meetings and

1040
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:53,440
Commissioner Buckley will say this too
is um they've really worked really well

1041
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:57,760
about the ordinance. They've um they
talked about we we went through half of

1042
01:17:55,679 --> 01:18:02,239
it and then this one last meeting we
were going through the second half and

1043
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:08,719
everybody is really giving their
feedback and everybody's really paying

1044
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:14,719
attention to what the city wants um and
and what we should be doing. So I know

1045
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:18,159
it first started out with office space.
Do we really need more office buildings

1046
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:20,960
here?
I'd probably tell you that nobody on

1047
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:25,280
that commission on the planning
commission thinks we need another office

1048
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:30,560
building. Um I'll just go that far out
because we've got other ones and they

1049
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:36,560
are and so that's one of the things that
they've been talking about. You know, we

1050
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:41,280
did find out that our vacancy rate for
offices uh when they did the study they

1051
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:46,719
found out it was like what 18 19 and now
it's 22% or something. And um one of the

1052
01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:51,280
things that one of the commissioners on
the planning commission said which was

1053
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:58,159
Will Hustler and I really liked it is he
said he goes part of what this did this

1054
01:18:54,960 --> 01:19:04,640
whole moratorum is it got us to start
looking at our city center

1055
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:10,239
more closely and what we want. And then
he said I love this. He goes we have to

1056
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:16,000
modernize our approach to a city center
area. And I I love that word. I was

1057
01:19:13,199 --> 01:19:21,040
like, that's really, you know, what so
there there it opened everybody's eyes

1058
01:19:18,239 --> 01:19:26,880
to what do we want here and what do we
want to do? Um, we have all the we have

1059
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:31,600
all the data from Joe. She's still
working with the commission. We because

1060
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:37,360
our commission we have like five or six
items on we get to the end of this and

1061
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:42,239
we don't get it done unfortunately. But
it's really great conversation. So, just

1062
01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:46,960
to give you I know a couple of you came
in later and then I'll tell you why. You

1063
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:50,640
know, we're at this parking one and they
want to say, do you want to do it by

1064
01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:55,600
gross or do you want to do it by net?
And there's this philosophy that we

1065
01:19:52,880 --> 01:20:00,640
don't really want to do bigger buildings
and if you do it by um net, it allows

1066
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:03,600
for a bigger building to be put on the
lot. And there they were, you know,

1067
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:11,199
there's all these other different
reasons. Um, so I did also learn from

1068
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:16,400
Mark um that we don't need the moratorum
to continue to work on the ordinance.

1069
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:20,640
Um, the planning commission has their
orders, their marching orders. They're

1070
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:25,600
going to talk about it at every meeting
that we have until it's where we want

1071
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:31,920
it. Um, I don't think this is going to
be a long drawn out process. Okay. Um, I

1072
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:37,040
think it'll be um
I I'm just really pleased that how I

1073
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:41,280
watched the whole planning commission or
we did went full circle on this and just

1074
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:45,520
really dove into it.
>> Great.

1075
01:20:41,679 --> 01:20:50,560
» Um, so, uh, great feedback. So, what I
would like to propose probably is, um,

1076
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:56,080
I'm not sure we still need to, um,
extend the moratorum. We, we've got a

1077
01:20:52,960 --> 01:21:00,000
direction. We know where we're going. Um
there's a couple things that came out of

1078
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:05,440
this. Number one, yeah, we needed to
update some of the things in the

1079
01:21:01,679 --> 01:21:09,040
language in here. Um number two is we do
need to do a survey, a new survey with

1080
01:21:07,199 --> 01:21:14,960
our residents because it's been a while.
So, we should have that done. Um not

1081
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:21,520
now, but down how do you think we've
changed or remedied that concern? Well,

1082
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:27,840
I I can give you one answer is that we
have a building that had was it 160,000

1083
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:32,480
feet and the Toddman family was keeping
their family office there with 20,000 or

1084
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:37,360
something in an empty building. We have
one person who's buying it and filling

1085
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:43,280
the building up. My guest right now and
we have the cajian building which is now

1086
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:50,320
going to have a second tenant and there
was at 190 or 200,000 ft. They're 50%

1087
01:21:47,679 --> 01:21:56,800
filled from not zero in the last six
months. My sense is there is a number of

1088
01:21:54,880 --> 01:22:00,880
corporate entities. They're going to
fill the buildings up here inevitably.

1089
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:05,679
I'm not excited about it because I think
that there's some using some vacant land

1090
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:08,560
there could make it its own downtown,
but we're not going to get there now.

1091
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:14,080
Those buildings are going to fill up
again. So that tells me that Woodward

1092
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:19,040
should not be having any office if we
can avoid it and we should make it down

1093
01:22:16,159 --> 01:22:24,239
zone that change. We're too late to stop
it unless the person who bought the

1094
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:29,840
restaurant decides he wants to put it to
more than just purely office use which

1095
01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:34,880
he can do and you know that will be his
decision. We've only got one other major

1096
01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:40,000
parcel available and that's the first
store which is just it's just a debacle.

1097
01:22:38,719 --> 01:22:45,760
what's happened from the beginning
there. Someone paid too much money for

1098
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:49,920
it and sometimes you lose money. I mean,
as a person who invests, I can tell you

1099
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:53,679
you lose money a lot. And I think
there's one last really nice piece of

1100
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:58,320
property. We've got to figure out how to
access the two and a half acres that's

1101
01:22:55,920 --> 01:23:03,440
south of Long Lake behind the buildings
there that I always saw was purely flood

1102
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:06,960
plane. And and and I think that, you
know, I don't know if Saka owns that

1103
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:12,320
office building there. I don't know who
owns the office buildings. Um, two of

1104
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:17,679
them right on Long Lake and and behind
there there's a huge attractive vacant

1105
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:21,199
land that we should put some good use to
uh and and we should make it really

1106
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:25,280
attractive. I don't give
>> that parking lot back there during the

1107
01:23:23,679 --> 01:23:27,600
day though.
>> Behind it there's another

1108
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:32,159
» there's another one.
>> There's another acreage back there. He

1109
01:23:29,679 --> 01:23:35,840
probably needs access along.
>> There's no access right now to that,

1110
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:41,440
» right? And that's the problem. And it
would just it'd be I mean if we had the

1111
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:47,120
right access point in there,
it would make it attractive for someone

1112
01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:51,440
with some kind of tax rebonding or some
type of tax break when they develop to

1113
01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:56,239
do something because we don't have a
downtown. I'm going to leave the meeting

1114
01:23:53,679 --> 01:23:59,280
without my wife here and without dinner
and I'm in deep trouble. That means I

1115
01:23:57,679 --> 01:24:03,920
got to have two of those diet ice creams
tonight for my dinner. And and we have

1116
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:07,760
nowhere else to go in this town. And in
the morning, you're going to a bagel

1117
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:12,000
place when when you know other people
going downtown go to go to the place on

1118
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:15,760
Maple. That nice that nice coffee house
there that's that's off at Maple and

1119
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:19,600
Cranbrook if you've been in there. And
they've got the barber shop on the

1120
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:23,920
second floor. I mean, that's the kind of
use I'd like to see on Woodward Avenue.

1121
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:28,719
And we are going to have to figure out
how to do some tax benefits if it's

1122
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:33,520
kosher and we can get away with it and
and make do those developments.

1123
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:37,360
I'm not unhappy that I pushed for a
moratorum because we really didn't give

1124
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:40,600
thought about where we're going with the
city here.

1125
01:24:40,719 --> 01:24:45,960
» Yeah.
Comments.

1126
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:52,880
» Nothing to I mean I agree a lot with
>> if you disagree with me with what you're

1127
01:24:52,639 --> 01:24:56,000
saying.
>> Probably wondering where I am on tax

1128
01:24:54,159 --> 01:25:00,800
incentives. I think there's a need for
some different uses in the city and um

1129
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:04,639
we want to promote that as much as
possible and I think that we can we can

1130
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:08,840
get through that like you said without
the moratorum. Um

1131
01:25:09,679 --> 01:25:16,560
the moratorum no matter what is just a
temporary

1132
01:25:13,440 --> 01:25:22,080
» uh slowdown or stop stoppage and that
that only lasts for so long. So this

1133
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:26,960
process of updating the you know our
focus and what we want to see developed

1134
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:30,639
in the city is going to take
considerable amount of time. I would

1135
01:25:28,639 --> 01:25:33,679
think as you mentioned it, it gets done
at the end of these meetings and

1136
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:40,239
» yeah,
>> it's it's hard to uh

1137
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:46,560
» I I would say though um the only thing I
don't agree with on yours is and and I

1138
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:52,719
and um we we we've talked about it, but
you know to put another I'm

1139
01:25:51,199 --> 01:25:59,280
to put another office building on
Woodward. I literally everybody I say

1140
01:25:56,639 --> 01:26:02,480
that to drops their head.
>> It's it's

1141
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:07,199
» they just sit there and they just go.
>> So I think it's time that we modernize

1142
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:10,800
the city. I like that word.
>> Yeah. But I I just don't know how you're

1143
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:15,360
going to encourage a coffee shop. I mean
that I would love that and I agree with

1144
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:19,840
all of you that we need diversity. I'm
just not sure. I don't think the

1145
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:23,600
moratorum was helping but we didn't do
anything during the mortorium to help.

1146
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:26,719
That is my concern. We gave thought
about where we want to go with our city

1147
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:28,239
which we haven't given thought to for 30
years

1148
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:32,719
» which is very good. I agree.
>> That's that's the thing we just never

1149
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:34,800
had really we really needed the shot to
the head.

1150
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:40,000
» Yeah.
>> So I know and you know the other thing

1151
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:43,679
is my last comment is um
>> and I'll get into this with another

1152
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:49,679
thing is you know it's difficult to
change but sometimes change is good.

1153
01:26:46,239 --> 01:26:56,880
it's needed in a city. And um I just
think that this uh I I' I'd like us to

1154
01:26:53,280 --> 01:27:00,800
be a little bit of a a commission,
planning, zoning, city commission that

1155
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:06,719
we're commissioners that are committed
to really changing our or looking at our

1156
01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:10,400
city and seeing what we need
>> adapting.

1157
01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:18,560
We need to moderate. I agree. So with
that um do we need a um motion to to

1158
01:27:16,639 --> 01:27:24,159
because mortorium ends today or just
nothing we let it go.

1159
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:27,600
» Unless anybody has any other feelings.
>> Are you guys okay with that?

1160
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:33,440
» Okay. All right. Thank you for listening
to my and sorry about the vagueness. I

1161
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:35,440
didn't know how to put it on the
>> I appreciate that.

1162
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:40,880
» I didn't know how to put it on the
agenda. So I really appreciate that. Um

1163
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:44,000
okay. Next item on the agenda is the
commission will hear the city manager

1164
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:48,080
comments.
>> Mayor had a couple things. Uh first of

1165
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:52,400
all, I'm not sure if anybody's put on
their calendar yet, but September 20th

1166
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:55,520
is the uh open house.
>> Oh, good.

1167
01:27:53,120 --> 01:28:01,199
» And I know that the chief has wrapped a
car in in uh in recognition of the

1168
01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:03,679
country's 250th birthday.
>> Oh, I love that.

1169
01:28:03,199 --> 01:28:05,840
» Great.
>> It's getting done right now, I think. Um

1170
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:09,840
I
>> we're going to keep it

1171
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:17,360
» uh for at least a year. at least a year.
It uh contains part of the um

1172
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:20,320
constitution on it, American flag 250,
the anniversary of our country.

1173
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:25,760
» That's great.
>> I love that. Hats off to that idea.

1174
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:29,840
» So, I know Commissioner Fischer wanted
some celebration with with that. So,

1175
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:35,280
we're trying to make make that happen.
>> That's great. Great. Um, another thing

1176
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:39,679
also that Amy and I were talking about
is this could be a good opportunity for

1177
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:43,440
a newsletter. There's a few items out
there that are might be interesting to

1178
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:47,040
our residents. One is the Woodward
closure.

1179
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:52,719
Uh, we have the Chesterfield Bridge
project that's going to be hopefully

1180
01:28:48,639 --> 01:28:57,120
done in maybe a few weeks. But, um, also
uh, we think it's important that

1181
01:28:54,560 --> 01:29:00,719
residents understand about the library
millage that's going to come up in

1182
01:28:58,239 --> 01:29:04,719
November. So maybe might we might uh not
make it in time for the Chesterfield. It

1183
01:29:02,239 --> 01:29:07,679
might be done. But uh certainly the Wood
Wood Woodward closure is going to be a

1184
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:11,920
point of interest for our residents and
also library millillage.

1185
01:29:09,679 --> 01:29:14,880
» When does the closure start officially?
What date do they have a date? I know it

1186
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:18,719
was after the dream cruise, but I
didn't.

1187
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:23,120
» I don't know. I can find out.
>> Three months.

1188
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:26,000
» Uh when's that start, Lauren?
>> The Woodward closure.

1189
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:29,040
» That's what I was asking him. when
they're closing Woodward. They said it

1190
01:29:27,679 --> 01:29:33,760
was after the dream cruise, but they
didn't give us a date.

1191
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:39,480
» They didn't give us a date.
>> Okay.

1192
01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:39,480
» Where the equipment is out to last.

1193
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:44,320
» Okay. Chesterfield's open.
>> Good.

1194
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:46,880
» So cool.
>> Well, I still remember

1195
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:49,199
» about how you like Chester.
>> Yeah.

1196
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:54,000
» Think it ahead.
>> How long ago was that, Jamie? I can

1197
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:58,480
still I can still remember you bringing
No way. and put it out and then we got a

1198
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:02,679
grant and we had to wait and
>> grant Yeah, it took a while to grant

1199
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:08,360
» Okay. Anything else? What looks nice?

1200
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:16,320
» It was open to traffic today. So,
>> we have uh some concerns of residents

1201
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:20,719
and uh actually Jamie and I went out
last week to talk and some residents

1202
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:25,679
that live right on Chesterville right
there and and accommodated them. So, I

1203
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:28,920
think we're keeping people happy as much
as possible.

1204
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:36,800
» Okay. Um, next one is the commission
will consider other businesses. I have

1205
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:39,280
like three on my um
>> I have one as well.

1206
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:43,840
» So, do you go ahead?
>> Uh, I would like to propose that we

1207
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:48,719
impose a higher bond for new
construction

1208
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:55,920
uh for any homes being built where the
new road chip seal is. And I would I

1209
01:30:53,120 --> 01:31:01,440
just want to ask the city if you know um
a couple things like

1210
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:07,360
what is the repair cost because we have
a bond in place for a hard road

1211
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:13,040
um replacement cost. We know what that
is and and these huge construction

1212
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:18,719
vehicles do not do the same kind of
damage that they will do to this chip

1213
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:25,920
seal. So, um, if you could help us find
out what the average and maximum repair

1214
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:31,920
bill is per house being built and, um,
if the estimated cost to repair 100 ft

1215
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:35,920
to 500 ft, you know, one lane of chip
sealed road, I mean, it would just be

1216
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:40,880
and then we could come up with this with
the amount of the bond needed. And I

1217
01:31:39,679 --> 01:31:44,960
don't know, you probably can't get the
chip seal repaired and give them the

1218
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:50,239
bill and know how much of the bond that
you can return to the resident, but it

1219
01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:56,080
just seems there has to be other cities
do this too. Um, Marine City, Michigan

1220
01:31:53,600 --> 01:32:01,360
requires cash construction of 5% of the
estimated project cost or $1,000,

1221
01:31:59,679 --> 01:32:06,480
whichever is greater, to cover the
damage resulting from construction

1222
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:11,920
activity. Um, Gitselli uses essentially
the same formula. um

1223
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:16,400
5% of the project costs or $1,000
whichever is greater which is you know

1224
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:20,159
if it's a $3 million home that's that's
a huge bond. I don't think we want to do

1225
01:32:18,239 --> 01:32:23,760
five I don't know
>> construction costs are

1226
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:30,080
» um Madison Height has a construction
bond 5%. So I think I think it's

1227
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:34,480
something we should put in place before
your beautiful new roads are completely

1228
01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:39,360
trashed by all these
>> Well, we do we do have uh So, the

1229
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:45,600
construction bond is different from the
road bond. We do have a road bond which

1230
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:50,000
we charge $10,000 for all asphalt roads.
And um we actually went through an

1231
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:56,000
exercise uh uh there's a house on
Canterbury that damaged the road,

1232
01:32:52,320 --> 01:33:01,760
damaged the chip seal. And uh Jamie, you
can you can uh you can correct me, but

1233
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:07,360
interestingly enough, that the cor the
cost to repair the chip seal is a lot

1234
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:13,920
less than the uh per square foot. A lot
less than the um asphalt roads. It just

1235
01:33:11,679 --> 01:33:20,480
it just is because asphalt roads we have
to have to cut it out and compact it and

1236
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:25,360
put it all back where this uh house on
on one of the roads in Trobridge

1237
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:30,239
subdivision. Uh we had to we had to put
asphalt uh shore up some of the areas

1238
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:34,880
with ashvalt because of the heavy trucks
and then we did the chip seal but we

1239
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:40,480
charged them for that. Um, but didn't
end up being uh it probably I think the

1240
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:45,360
the cost was maybe $78,000, but we had a
$10,000 road bond, so we were fine.

1241
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:49,040
» I I think you're spot on. I think the
difference is it's hard to find cheap

1242
01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:52,320
sealers. It's easy to find asphalt
repair people. So, usually we're not the

1243
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:56,880
ones doing the work on the asphalt.
We're just making sure it gets done

1244
01:33:53,920 --> 01:34:02,800
right, inspected. So, as long as
everyone's comfortable with fact that we

1245
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:06,800
you have to we had to go contract that
out, right, for the chip seal

1246
01:34:05,679 --> 01:34:11,199
or did they do it?
>> Scott, did we uh So,

1247
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:14,840
» what happened with that Canterbury
house?

1248
01:34:11,679 --> 01:34:14,840
» I think,

1249
01:34:16,719 --> 01:34:22,360
» but the the How did we recoup that cost?

1250
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:30,480
So, we took the money out of the money
that we owed them and it just it's less

1251
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:35,040
usually than
>> Well, that's not what I mean. All these

1252
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:39,679
other cities are are charging more.
they're 25,000, you know, like I I'm

1253
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:46,239
just suggesting that construction on the
recently, you know, completed chip

1254
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:49,600
sealed roads be 15,000 to $25,000
instead of I know you're saying it's

1255
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:53,600
less, but that that's not counting the
whole rest of the road that it goes on

1256
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:57,360
and it ruins on its way. And you're not
even in the rainy season yet.

1257
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:01,120
» You know, that is tough. It was tough
with that uh talking with that resident,

1258
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:03,760
too, because
>> it's not just the parking.

1259
01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:08,080
» It's hard. You're right. It was just
hard to, you know, he was, this

1260
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:11,280
gentleman was, you know, I can't be
responsible for all this, all these

1261
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:14,639
holes on the different rows and that,
but

1262
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:17,520
he probably was partially responsible. I
just say just increase it for everybody.

1263
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:22,400
» Yeah.
>> You mean asphalt as well as ship seal?

1264
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:25,360
» Look, nothing's that 10 grand was what,
eight, six, seven, eight years ago we

1265
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:29,440
started that maybe six years ago.
>> It was interesting when we

1266
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:33,679
This is not everybody's on the
commission, but interestingly enough, I

1267
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:37,120
came to the commission to asked for this
and asked for a big and I got push back

1268
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:39,120
that we lower it. Do you remember that
Jamie?

1269
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:42,639
» So I'm glad that you're seeing it the
other way now because we agree we would

1270
01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:48,320
we would we would like to be more
careful and and uh and have that money

1271
01:35:44,719 --> 01:35:52,480
available. Uh so thank you. Um and then
I think we're just going to go through

1272
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:55,520
go through different neighborhoods.
>> So like you have the road map of yellow,

1273
01:35:54,159 --> 01:36:00,480
red, green kind of thing.
>> Yeah, we have Yeah. you know, uh, yes,

1274
01:35:58,159 --> 01:36:05,920
where where all the signs are and where,
uh, he he believes that these should be

1275
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:09,920
some of the first areas to replace. And
so I have to, uh, matter of fact, I just

1276
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:15,679
talked to Commissioner Baxter about it
to utilize the the folks that he was

1277
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:22,080
working with and he put together that
wood sign. So, uh, my plan is to

1278
01:36:20,239 --> 01:36:25,040
take that as the second step to start
putting some of these wood signs into

1279
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:28,800
place.
And then will you replace the green and

1280
01:36:26,639 --> 01:36:30,239
white signs on Woodward with the black
and gold?

1281
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:33,199
» Yes.
>> Oh, good.

1282
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:36,719
» Yes. Yes.
>> I don't think we're going to some some

1283
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:40,400
of some residents were asking to have
Woodward on there also. I don't think

1284
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:44,400
that makes any sense because I think
they know where they're at. But anyways,

1285
01:36:42,159 --> 01:36:47,639
uh so we're just going to just the
street name.

1286
01:36:48,719 --> 01:36:55,360
» So, and I I have the So, I have all the
particulars, all the approvals.

1287
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:58,800
And if you have any recommendations
where you see some signs in the in the

1288
01:36:57,679 --> 01:37:02,080
neighborhoods, which I think we're going
to replace the signs in the

1289
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:04,400
neighborhoods with the wood signs.
>> Yes.

1290
01:37:02,719 --> 01:37:08,080
» Tell me what you think uh should be
first or whatever. We have an idea where

1291
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:12,000
where we believe we should go.
>> Um I'm just I was just going to sort of

1292
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:15,520
follow what Jamie was recommending, but
if you have any recommendations, we'd be

1293
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:19,119
happy to do whatever you want. Well,
we're driving around the city. You can

1294
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:21,520
know I I'm I'm in my head I'm seeing a
couple of them, but I can't think of the

1295
01:37:20,239 --> 01:37:26,320
name of the road, you know, that were
really dilapidated. And so, we'll give

1296
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:29,199
you pass those on. Okay.
>> Could you just send us an email of which

1297
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:30,080
neighborhoods you're going after at a
time?

1298
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:34,719
» Yes,
>> that'd be great. Thanks.

1299
01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:40,360
» Um, okay. Anybody else have any other
business questions? If not, can I motion

1300
01:37:37,199 --> 01:37:40,360
to adjurnn?

1301
01:37:40,719 --> 01:37:45,320
» Okay. Thank you.