1 00:00:02,990 --> 00:00:08,990 Meeting of the Michigan Board of State canvacers for the 24th today, 25th. 2 00:00:10,310 --> 00:00:17,370 We're September 25th, 2020, six is called to order. Good morning. Another full room. 3 00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:22,350 It's great to see everybody this morning. We've got a very limited agenda. 4 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:30,660 I guess we've start right out with the consideration of the meeting minutes for the August 24th, 2020, six meeting. 5 00:00:31,340 --> 00:00:33,640 Move to the second. 6 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,340 And moved in approved, all in favor. 7 00:00:37,180 --> 00:00:37,440 Hi. 8 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:38,840 Opposed number. 9 00:00:40,220 --> 00:00:40,540 OK. 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:47,700 So before we continue here, we have items 2, 3, 4, and 5. 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,280 Our all petitions regarding this vision, correct? 12 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,600 So there's a couple ways we can do this, but here's 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,900 how we're going to do it. 14 00:00:58,900 --> 00:01:08,120 I'm going to ask Director Brader to read each of those four, and then he's going to read those all at once. 15 00:01:08,980 --> 00:01:15,560 We still have to vote on each of them individually, but just so that we don't end up with a lot of waste of time and repeats. 16 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:24,280 We're going to read them all at once, and then as a reader, you're the only one here speaking for it. 17 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,660 will then have you come up, let's talk to it, and then once you're finished, then the board will 18 00:01:29,660 --> 00:01:35,640 deliberate individually on each of the four and take motion. Is that, does that work for you? 19 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,180 Work for anybody here? 20 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:49,270 We're going to actually vote on each of the four, but we're going to read 21 00:01:49,270 --> 00:01:55,410 all four of them at once, and then we will have the discussion with you, you can speak, but you are 22 00:01:55,410 --> 00:02:01,370 in fact speaking to all four. So if you speak to one individually, let us know when you talk to that 23 00:02:01,370 --> 00:02:02,790 so that we can market. 24 00:02:04,750 --> 00:02:04,970 Perfect. 25 00:02:05,870 --> 00:02:09,610 Director Brader, would you read through the petitions? 26 00:02:10,570 --> 00:02:10,850 Yes. 27 00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:19,130 Recall number one, the reasons for recalperances on the petition are between July 24th, 2025, 28 00:02:19,390 --> 00:02:23,310 and June 3rd, 2022, and Trim County Clerk Victoria Bishop changed several voters, 29 00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:25,630 status codes, and the qualified voter filed to cancel. 30 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:28,610 For example, Bishop changed six voter records in Manselon, 31 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:36,450 to cancel on January 9th, January 13th, January 23rd, January 27th, January 29th and April 16th, 2026. 32 00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:44,770 The reasons for recall printed on this pretty competition number two are between July 24th, 2025 and June 3rd, 2026, 33 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:49,550 the interim county clerk Victoria Bishop changed voter status codes in the qualified voter file to cancel. 34 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:55,610 For example, Bishop changed six voter records in Mansel and Township to cancel on January 9th, January 13th, 35 00:02:55,610 --> 00:03:00,430 during 23rd, January 27th, January 29th, and April 16th, 2026. 36 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:03,750 The Township Clarks responsible for those motor records had not 37 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:06,010 asked Bishop to make those changes on their behalf. 38 00:03:07,070 --> 00:03:09,610 The reasons for recalpering to the on position number 3 39 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:14,090 are, on January 9th, January 13th, January 23rd, 40 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:17,870 January 27th, January 29th, and April 16th, 2026, 41 00:03:18,190 --> 00:03:19,530 Antropanic Clark, Victoria Bishop, 42 00:03:19,570 --> 00:03:21,530 changed the voters' status codes of six manslaughter, 43 00:03:21,530 --> 00:03:23,850 Township voters in the qualified voter file to cancel. 44 00:03:25,710 --> 00:03:31,990 The reasons we're recovering to the on position number four are January 9th, January 13th, sorry, let's start over. 45 00:03:32,490 --> 00:03:39,230 On January 9th, January 13th, January 23rd, January 27th, January 29th, April 16th, 2026, 46 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:45,010 Antrim County Clerk Victoria Bishop changed the voter status codes of six months, low in the township voters in the qualified voter filed to cancel. 47 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:49,810 The township clerk responsible for those voter records had not asked Bishop to make those changes on their behalf. 48 00:03:58,070 --> 00:04:04,070 Please state your name and spell it for the clerk and also you'll have to push the little button at the base 49 00:04:04,070 --> 00:04:09,150 But you know all that you've been here before. Thank you. 50 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:20,700 My name is Ashley Arida a S. H. L. E. Y. Arida is A. R. E. D. A. 51 00:04:28,940 --> 00:04:30,560 Thank you board members. 52 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:40,560 At the center of all four petitions are six voter records, six states, one township, and one resulting status, 53 00:04:42,980 --> 00:04:48,820 Council states that this board is not deciding whether the changes were authorized or wise, 54 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,480 and is not conducting a trial on whether every allegation is true. 55 00:04:53,480 --> 00:05:10,540 And we agree. But much of the opposition asks the board to accept bishop's legal justification for one of the six changes and turn that defense into a reason to reject all four petitions. 56 00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:21,420 as unclear. A defense is not ambiguity. Bishop's detailed response identifies the six 57 00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:29,580 mantle owner records, the six states, the April 16 deceased voter record, and the township 58 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:38,180 request issue. Her ability to present such a specific defense strongly supports the conclusion 59 00:05:38,180 --> 00:05:40,620 that the conduct is identifiable. 60 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,340 Council argues that the April 16th change was required 61 00:05:46,340 --> 00:05:48,780 because it involved a deceased voter. 62 00:05:49,540 --> 00:05:54,180 But Michigan law distinguishes between the county clerk 63 00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:57,260 initiating the deceased voter process 64 00:05:57,820 --> 00:06:01,180 and the township clerk reviewing the information 65 00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:03,160 and completing the cancellation. 66 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,000 These petitions describe a change to cancel, 67 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,180 not simply the initiation of township review. 68 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,500 Even if Bishop believes that change was justified, 69 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:20,160 disagreement about justification does not make the action unclear, 70 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,020 turning to the individual formations. 71 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:28,840 Petition 1 describes the broader course of conduct, 72 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:30,960 provides a fixed time period, 73 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,040 and identify six dated Mancelona examples. 74 00:06:35,780 --> 00:06:43,020 Petition 2 identifies the same course and adds the factual circumstances that the responsible 75 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:46,640 township clerks had not requested the changes. 76 00:06:47,540 --> 00:06:50,600 This is additional factual context, 77 00:06:51,260 --> 00:06:54,500 not a declaration that the conduct was legal. 78 00:06:54,500 --> 00:07:00,940 Petition 3 and 4 eliminate the open-ended objection entirely. 79 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,020 Both contain a closed set. 80 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,060 Exactly six voters, six states, 81 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,420 Mancelona Township, the qualified voter file, 82 00:07:13,060 --> 00:07:15,080 and the resulting status cancel. 83 00:07:16,020 --> 00:07:18,790 Petition 4 adds the fact that 84 00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:23,690 Responsible Township Clerk had not requested those changes. 85 00:07:24,670 --> 00:07:29,290 Whether Bishop believes a request was legally necessary is a... 86 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,980 Defense to the conduct, not uncertainty about what happened. 87 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:42,600 Council sites and earlier petition involving the Secretary of State. That petition mentioned 88 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:50,460 two different processes, investigation and resolution, and did not clearly identify which 89 00:07:50,460 --> 00:07:59,020 one was being challenged. There is no comparable either or problem here. Patitions 3 and 4 90 00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:02,360 expressly include all six changes. 91 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:10,200 Council also raises a placement of ejection, specific to petition too. 92 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:16,580 If the board believes that creates a form issue, it should address that petition separately. 93 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,280 It proves no basis to reject petition's one, three, or four. 94 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:32,200 Finally, the differences between the different identified and petition three involve punctuation, 95 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,520 capitalization and formatting. 96 00:08:35,420 --> 00:08:39,200 They do not change a date voter action or status. 97 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:44,940 I agree that the board should reproduce the exact approved language in its determination. 98 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:51,780 That resolves the administrative concern without turning a comma into a clarity defect. 99 00:08:51,780 --> 00:09:05,260 These petitions give the board several formulations to consider, a concern about one version should not be transferred to a different version that eliminates it. 100 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:09,460 And we're not asking this board to endorse a recall today. 101 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:20,200 Approval only means that the words are factual and form are sufficiently clear and eligible to move forward through the process. 102 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:26,840 the Board decides whether the words are clear if that standard is met and 103 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,340 from county voters decide the merits. 104 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,260 I respectfully ask the Board to evaluate each petition independently 105 00:09:35,260 --> 00:09:40,420 and approve every version that satisfies the law. 106 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:42,300 Thank you very much. 107 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:46,340 Members, do you have questions or comments for? 108 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:55,200 I do. I have Mr. Rita. You may have noticed in opposing councils documents over the past 109 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,540 couple of days. He accused you of not filing things timely. 110 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,140 Great. Could you explain to us and we can check with the, I trust you, when things were 111 00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:07,040 filed and sure what he's referring to? 112 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:15,680 Sure. So the first date of our initial entire filing packet was sent out on September 14th, I believe. 113 00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:24,540 And then I sent out additional supplemental materials on September 19th via email. 114 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:42,280 I believe that there were a couple of days in between when the original email that I sent the board was then forwarded to the Victoria Bishop's Council. 115 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:52,280 So, I think he received it a bit later than when I actually sent it on the 19th. 116 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:57,260 Okay, so you didn't send in any other evidence or documents after the 19th? 117 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,080 No, no. 118 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,280 Okay, thank you. 119 00:11:02,380 --> 00:11:02,440 Yeah. 120 00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:08,880 Mr. Rita, you want us to consider each of these and make a determination on each. 121 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:14,040 If we determined that one was clear, do you still want the other three? 122 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:16,480 I do. 123 00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:18,060 I think that would be great. 124 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:26,640 That way we would have multiple options to choose from when we go back and meet with the committee. 125 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,160 If that's okay with you all. 126 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:40,080 So it's my understanding that if we approve for or three, whatever, 127 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:49,260 you would then decide which one you prefer and that would be the one that is submitted to the bureau when you are circulated. 128 00:11:49,260 --> 00:11:49,840 Exactly. 129 00:11:53,800 --> 00:12:11,000 Okay. I do know it. I did read the correspondence from Ms. Bishop's attorney who is, as you say, saying that one of the cancelations was one that she was required to make because the voter was deceased. 130 00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:18,820 That's right. I think whether that's true or not, it doesn't make it unclear. 131 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:29,400 exactly. So, clarity is not necessarily truthfulness, which is a strange thing about recall, 132 00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:39,560 but we're looking for clarity and not necessarily accuracy. So, it could be factually clear 133 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:47,160 and if, in fact, she had the obligation herself to do that, that would be her defense. 134 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,640 I said, is that what you're saying? 135 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:49,320 Yes. 136 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,500 If she had the obligation herself to do that, 137 00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:57,260 she could make that known during the recall process. 138 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,560 But either, either way, it is clear, 139 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:09,460 we make it very clear to miss Bishop and to the voters. 140 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,680 That these are, right, changes, she made it in the law. 141 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:17,620 These are changes that she made to them. 142 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:24,600 not have, that's not the issue. The issue is that she did. Yes. At least that's my understanding, right? 143 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:25,580 Yes. 144 00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:34,850 Okay. You folks, if you want to discuss, can we, can we maybe take these? Now we do have to 145 00:13:34,850 --> 00:13:38,050 actually look at that individually. Can we take these one by one? 146 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:42,510 If we look at the first petition, 147 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:44,550 which is item two on your agenda? 148 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:48,040 Discussion? 149 00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:54,930 I believe that it's clear. In fact, I would say 150 00:13:54,930 --> 00:14:02,850 at this point in our discussion that I think all four of the petitions are clear. Each 151 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:11,190 of them sets forth actions taken by the office, so whose recall I saw it specifically 152 00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:20,790 identifies those actions. So I think each of them is clear, but I know we have to 153 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:27,690 on each and Missoretta wants us to consider each and so she submitted them to us and we 154 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:30,610 need to do that. Thank you. 155 00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:42,610 I agree. Yeah, I agree. The first, the first reason for recall is clear. And I believe 156 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:43,990 it's factual as well. 157 00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:57,050 I'm actually inclined to, you know, we all get favorites right? 158 00:14:57,130 --> 00:14:59,970 So rather than talk about clarity first of all, I would say the ones that are 159 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,100 For the most clear to me are the second and the fourth. 160 00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:14,920 I also believe that the first one is, the first 161 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:24,200 petition is also clear. The only one that I would probably look sideways at is the third, where 162 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,120 simply it to me it's just it's not clear enough. 163 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:34,440 Yeah I tend to agree I mean the one that I think is the best is the second one but I 164 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:41,000 know we're going through them individually but to me that one is gives the most 165 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:47,740 evidence and gives the most information for a signer to understand what's going on. 166 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,800 Okay I would also I would like to make one point just so it's on the record with 167 00:15:53,800 --> 00:16:00,080 Miss Bishops Attorney who was concerned about our 48-hour rule, and you've already spoken a little to that. 168 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:05,100 But I do want to clarify that as an individual board member reviewing all of this material, 169 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:11,440 I didn't look at your pieces that had come in from the township clerks. 170 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,900 Not ostensibly, not because it was 48 hours, but because I had everything I needed already. 171 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:26,220 So, I do want to put that on there because I know this bishop's attorney had specifically called that out. 172 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,580 And lately we seem to be considering the 48-hour rule in a lot of meetings. 173 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,240 So, yeah, that's on the record. 174 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,520 If, if we have any more conversation on these that we need to make, 175 00:16:42,420 --> 00:16:45,000 that we need to, no, I don't. 176 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,800 Do you folks feel like we're ready to just work for the motions? 177 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:49,660 Yes. 178 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:56,040 And I would ask for a motion for item two, which is petition number one. 179 00:16:56,980 --> 00:17:03,800 I move that the Board of State canvases determine that the reasons for recall printed on petition number one, submitted by Ashley, 180 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:10,040 read it against Anthrom County Clerk Victoria Bishop on September 14, 2020, 26. Our 181 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:17,780 factual and sufficiently clear and based on Bishop's calm duct in office because it sets 182 00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:21,500 for specific actions which you took on specific dates. 183 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,860 It's the port. 184 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:29,180 And moved and supported all in favor? Hi. Hi. 185 00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:32,850 I say I know opposing I would ask 186 00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:36,250 So we move on to petition number two, do I have a motion? 187 00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,970 I moved at the Board of State Canvasers 188 00:17:41,970 --> 00:17:44,470 determined that the reasons for recall printed 189 00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:47,990 on petition two, submitted by Ashley Gerrera, 190 00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:51,190 against anchoring county clerk Victoria Bishop, 191 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:53,690 on September 14th, 2026, 192 00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:56,450 are factual and sufficiently clear 193 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:58,870 and based on Bishop's conduct in office, 194 00:17:59,490 --> 00:18:01,550 because the language provides dates 195 00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:09,670 and reasons for Victoria Bishops, I'm going to strike that. 196 00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:14,050 I move that the Board of State Canvasers determined that the reasons for recall printed 197 00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:19,770 on petition one submitted by Ashley Arita against Andrew County Clerk Victoria Bishops 198 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:26,830 on September 14, 2026 are factual, and sufficiently clear, and based on Bishops' conduct 199 00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:34,550 in office because dates are provided and the conduct is provided very clearly. 200 00:18:36,030 --> 00:18:38,690 Excuse me, did I hear you say petition one? 201 00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:39,110 Oh. 202 00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:42,470 We have to redo that when we've already voted on petition one. 203 00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:44,010 I did say that. 204 00:18:59,250 --> 00:19:03,650 I moved at the Board of State Cavsers determined that the reasons for recall printed on 205 00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:09,590 petition two submitted by Ashley Arita against Andrew County Clerk Victoria Bishop on 206 00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:15,710 September 14, 2026, our factual, and sufficiently clear, and based on Bishop's conduct 207 00:19:15,710 --> 00:19:19,730 in office, because dates are provided in the conduct is provided clearly. 208 00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:24,750 And moved, I would second that. 209 00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:27,070 And moved in second it, hall in favor. 210 00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:28,970 Aye. 211 00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:36,050 Being that there are no opposed, we'll move on to petition tree, so I have a motion. 212 00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:36,590 Oh, 213 00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:40,470 we're going to do this again. 214 00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:44,550 Are you, let me ask you a question before you try to read a motion. 215 00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:49,310 Are you also having an issue with the material on your screen that is not there for this meeting? 216 00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:51,190 No, I'm not. 217 00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:56,370 Okay, just making sure, you don't need Mr. for Cassie's machine for that? 218 00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:57,770 Yes, I do. 219 00:20:01,970 --> 00:20:02,810 Yeah, that's fine. 220 00:20:03,130 --> 00:20:04,190 I think technical issues. 221 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:08,810 This is what happens when you submit for a petition. 222 00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:10,090 Okay. 223 00:20:10,910 --> 00:20:14,610 Yeah, okay. I move that the Board of State 224 00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:16,450 officers determine that the reasons for 225 00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:18,890 recall printed on petition three submitted by 226 00:20:18,890 --> 00:20:21,310 Ashley Herita against Andrew County 227 00:20:21,310 --> 00:20:24,510 Clerk Victoria Bishop on September 14th, 228 00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:27,730 2026 are factual and sufficiently clear 229 00:20:27,730 --> 00:20:30,010 and based on Bishop's conduct in office 230 00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:31,970 because dates are provided in the conduct 231 00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:33,230 is provided clearly. 232 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:35,890 I have a second. 233 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:41,110 There's been moved in seconded hall in favor. 234 00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:46,650 I'm actually going to oppose this one. So I'll be a nay on number three. 235 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:53,050 I'm sorry. 236 00:20:55,340 --> 00:20:58,700 Just to be clear that means it fails even though it was two to one because you're correct. 237 00:20:59,380 --> 00:20:59,900 You are correct. 238 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:03,100 Yeah. 239 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,300 It leads us with one petition petition number four. Do I have a motion? 240 00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:23,730 I moved at the Board of State Cavsers determined that the reasons for recall printed on petition four 241 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:29,630 submitted by Ashley Arita against Andrew County Clerk Victoria Bishop on September 14, 242 00:21:29,630 --> 00:21:36,510 1226, our factual and sufficiently clear, and based on Bishop's conduct in office, because 243 00:21:36,510 --> 00:21:40,850 the dates have been provided, and the conduct provided is clear. 244 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:45,150 And moved in second at all, in favor? 245 00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:46,750 I. 246 00:21:47,850 --> 00:21:48,630 Motion passes. 247 00:21:50,450 --> 00:21:57,290 You've got three out of four, before we move on to something else, just a quick, quick comment. 248 00:21:57,710 --> 00:21:57,850 Sure. 249 00:21:57,850 --> 00:22:07,510 You got a three out of four. Please only use one. Yes. I know that's obvious, but I guarantee you if you come back and you have split 250 00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:24,490 petitions and you've used two of three and you have signatures on both. I can already tell you how the board will react. Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you for the time today. Truly. Thank you. Your third trip. 251 00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:29,970 right safely thank you yeah the nice right back I think though here's an 252 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,760 All sunshine up 253 00:22:41,290 --> 00:22:42,530 there. 254 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:55,000 We are on, we are on item number 6, public comment. Is there any public comment on coming through the line? 255 00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:57,420 No. All right. 256 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:00,680 Mr. Wolff, 257 00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:09,560 I need you to turn on the microphone at the base and state your name and spell it for the clerk. 258 00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:19,750 Good morning. I am Alan Wolff, A-L-L-E-N-W-O-L-F. 259 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,620 I have a citizen of Michigan and a taxpayer in 260 00:23:24,620 --> 00:23:26,960 Antrim County for more than 40 years. 261 00:23:27,580 --> 00:23:29,320 Thank you for your decision today. 262 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,820 Our president has pointed to Michigan 263 00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:34,880 a specifically Antrim County as a hotbed of election fraud. 264 00:23:35,660 --> 00:23:41,100 In reality, there was no widespread misconduct in 2020 as he alleged. 265 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,760 So, his MAGA Confederates needed to create some 266 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,560 and along comes Ms. Victoria Bishop. 267 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,500 Due to the absence of ranked choice voting, 268 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:59,080 Ms. Bishop got the Republican nomination with a minority of the vote in 2024 and ran in 269 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,140 the general election unopposed on the ballot. Since being elected, the voters of 270 00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:09,560 Antrim County have become aware that they made a huge mistake as a result of a federal 271 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:15,160 bankruptcy proceeding after her election where she and her husband gave sworn testimony. 272 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,640 We learned that she had filed any 24 and ran in the general election unopposed on the ballot. 273 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,760 Since being elected, the voters of Antium County have become aware that they made a huge mistake, 274 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:34,300 as a result of federal bankruptcy proceeding after her election, where she and her husband 275 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:40,420 gave sworn testimony, we learned that she had filed a false campaign finance report. 276 00:24:41,060 --> 00:24:46,200 She falsely claimed her husband made loans and donations to her campaign of about $15,000. 277 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:54,180 In a corrected filing, she claimed to have been the donor herself of $10,000 in cash to her 278 00:24:54,180 --> 00:25:01,080 campaign in excess of a $20 legal limit, and could provide no paper trail of the source 279 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:01,860 of the funds. 280 00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:08,080 She admits that she hadn't filed tax returns on her radio station business, or personally, 281 00:25:08,540 --> 00:25:10,120 as far back as she could remember. 282 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:16,500 She admitted that she had paid no taxes and failed to keep any business records or tax records. 283 00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:23,600 She was found to be in contempt of court and ordered to pay fines and cost of about $12,000, 284 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:27,340 which had to be garnished from her wages as a clerk. 285 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:34,080 If that wasn't enough, it has been widely reported that she gave her husband a twice convicted felon 286 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,840 unsupervised access to her clerk's office and her computer. 287 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,720 According to media reports, she has mailed out about 1,800 cancellation of verification 288 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,180 postcards with multiple deficiencies to voters. 289 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,180 She has made it at least 160 changes to the QVF that she was not authorized to make. 290 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:59,680 She defended her actions with a newspaper add, paid for by taxpayers like me, claiming 291 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,640 that she had a mandate from the people that she basically didn't have to follow the law. 292 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,440 The Bureau of Elections has found her conducts so egregious that they have removed her 293 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:14,980 access to the qualified voter file until she gets trained and pledges to file the law. 294 00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:19,780 She has not made those requirements or even pledged to do so. 295 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,740 Just last week, she claimed to be too busy working on the election to respond to a 296 00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:28,280 FOIA request until after the November election. 297 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:36,140 The citizens of Antrim County want her gone. The reputation of every other honest, law-biting 298 00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:41,740 clerk in the state is being tarnished by allowing Victoria Bishop to remain in office 299 00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:47,300 any longer. Ms. Bishop couldn't even bother to show up in person here to anyone of these 300 00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:54,020 three hearings. The delays caused by Ms. Bishop's objections has pushed this recall campaign 301 00:26:54,020 --> 00:27:00,160 into a position where the signatures will need to be collected in the middle of winter in a very cold 302 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:06,040 county where it will be very, very difficult. But I can tell you this, the citizens of 303 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,520 Andrew County will ultimately succeed. I do want to thank the board for its decision today 304 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,660 and for the time to allow me to make this statement. Thank you very much. 305 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,720 Welcome, sir. Thank you. Thank you. 306 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,240 This cappuccino. 307 00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:35,310 Wonderful to see you back. If you with the 308 00:27:35,310 --> 00:27:38,290 stature name and spell it for the clerk after you turn the microphone on. 309 00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:51,860 Is it on? Yes. My name is Lisa Capitina, L.I.S.A.C.A.P.A.T.I. and A. Good morning. 310 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:56,820 Were you stuck in any question? You filled out two sheets. I did. How about if I, how 311 00:27:56,820 --> 00:28:02,860 about you, you wanted to speak on six and item number seven? Do you mind if you 312 00:28:02,860 --> 00:28:08,500 on six and then continue your conversation into seven and we'll segue into that part of the agenda 313 00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,840 with your speech, how's that? That actually works out better for me. Thank you. That works. 314 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,900 Good morning, Chair House Camp. Vice Chair Gerwitz, member Cummings and the rest of your team. 315 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,060 Purn early or request, I am providing the steps taken by Wayne County to support him, 316 00:28:25,260 --> 00:28:29,740 tramick, during the August primary, in light of issues that occurred last November. 317 00:28:29,740 --> 00:28:37,760 Our Board of Canvasers drafted a letter to all-wane county clerks providing guidance to facilitate a smooth canvas. 318 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,740 We asked their consideration in areas where process details are essential. 319 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:48,880 We also suggested implementing a system to ensure their security of ballot storage 320 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:57,680 throughout the entire election cycle and recommended sharing that plan with their staff as an additional level of security 321 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,500 to mitigate chain of custody concerns. 322 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,460 On July 23rd, it was emailed to all clerks 323 00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:05,820 and their deputy clerks. 324 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,760 Our deputy director, Jennifer Redmond, 325 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,900 conducted a comprehensive three-hour inspector training 326 00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:14,800 on July 22nd. 327 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,220 I attended that training as an observer 328 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:20,280 during which former inspectors, again, 329 00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:23,960 raised allegations of cheating and election malfeasance 330 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,340 in prior elections. 331 00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:35,000 Both actions permitted and those prohibited during the voting process were reiterated by her and guidance was provided of concerns arose. 332 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,900 She returned to Hamtramic for early voting training and offered her assistance with any other of their needs. 333 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:52,160 Hamtramic clerks, Sammy Elhadi, reassigned experienced inspectors to the leadership positions for increased oversight and accuracy. 334 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:59,780 A special chair training was held on July 29th, which I also observed, on Election Day at the 335 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:23,760 I am at counting board. I understand a representative from the state. Carol Pierce was present during ert was present early, excuse me, during the major tabulator malfunction. Later in the day, another individual who identified himself as a New York attorney, working with the state was also present. I was present for most of the closing procedures. 336 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:30,600 Last November, Ham Tramik had one election day precincts and two AV counting boards found 337 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:37,500 not recountable. In the August primary, clerk Elhatty's team completed a successful and 338 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:43,500 smooth canvas. Congratulations, do him, his team, and to the inspectors that volunteered 339 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:50,620 to serve. As to any other steps taken by the county or the state, I am unaware of them. I 340 00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:57,440 I'm also unaware of any action or update from the prosecutor regarding the November allegations 341 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:04,720 of fraud, nor the many suspicious ballots, ballot markings noted during the hand recounts. 342 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,680 To my knowledge, the county has not yet been contacted. 343 00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:11,340 Thank you for your continued attention to this matter. 344 00:31:12,380 --> 00:31:13,700 Thank you very much. 345 00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:18,320 Could I ask you for a stay for some questions here? 346 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,560 Okay, go on. 347 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:27,580 Before you move on to new business, I want to, we were given public comment in our packet 348 00:31:27,580 --> 00:31:28,800 and I want to respond. 349 00:31:28,980 --> 00:31:34,420 I'm going to let you do that, but let's, let's, we won't, six and seven are kind of soft 350 00:31:34,420 --> 00:31:34,720 boundaries. 351 00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:36,040 Okay, that's fine. 352 00:31:36,140 --> 00:31:43,960 But do you, do you have questions about, yeah, I really appreciate your coming and giving 353 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,200 this support and the attention that you have paid. 354 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:52,700 You said that you are unaware of other actions that have been taken by the Bureau or the county. 355 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,200 Are there other actions that you think should be taken? 356 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,420 I'm just not sure what you meant by bringing that out. 357 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:05,840 What I meant by that was it is almost a year. 358 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:12,620 We're going on a year where we had presented information from the public that came. 359 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:32,200 And there has still been no update or resolve, and it is my understanding as of the last conversation in the primary that the ballots that we indicated looked very suspicious during the hand recount are still sitting in the same place that they were. 360 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,340 So that I guess is the part that I think is relevant. 361 00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:49,080 So, you have been waiting for some criminal investigation, or for some investigation which might lead to a criminal action against some people. 362 00:32:49,520 --> 00:33:00,740 I guess what I'm looking for is an update on whether that investigation is in fact happening in regards to the fact that we submitted our 363 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,400 witness to things that looked unusual during that hand recount. 364 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:14,520 Yeah, it is really good to hear what the Wayne County Board of Campus are just on, and I really 365 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:20,860 appreciate your report and impressed with that and grateful with the fact that you have 366 00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:23,960 gone to these trainings because I think it's really critical. 367 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:31,940 I do learn a lot every time I go, I went through multiple throughout our county and every 368 00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:32,580 time I go. 369 00:33:32,660 --> 00:33:33,760 I learned something new. 370 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:41,120 And it is good to hear that the Hamtramic primary was conducted in accordance with the rules. 371 00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:46,240 So, you know, that's, and since we're all worried about what's going to happen in November, 372 00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:49,900 everywhere, including Hamtramic, that's very good to hear. 373 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:51,660 And thank you for that. 374 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:52,880 Can you direct a break? 375 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,860 Your perpetors, you have a debate to think? 376 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,740 Well, so there's the forward looking and there's the backward looking aspect of this. 377 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,480 So, in terms of the investigation, we don't have any other information about what has happened 378 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,640 with that, I think we've referred everything we had many months ago. 379 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,760 So that's, from our standpoint, where it's said, 380 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,660 signers stand, there are still some matters that need to be resolved. 381 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,400 We're going to return back to the judge's order. 382 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,760 Also, that the ballots need to be counted, 383 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:18,840 that we're previously not counted. 384 00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:20,560 So I'm not sure exactly where that stands, 385 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,460 and how that would affect criminal investigation. 386 00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:24,220 In terms of the administration's item, 387 00:34:24,220 --> 00:34:28,700 as the scavenging of noted, we did have one of the most senior expert 388 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:32,040 members of our team there, and that was following conversations 389 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,160 that we had had with the Clark's Office about improving their procedures, so it sounds like 390 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,280 that's moving in the right direction, which is great to hear. 391 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,500 We're going to continue to work with them. 392 00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:47,340 You know, we obviously have a limited number of staff, so we cannot have our staff at local 393 00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:52,040 election locations all day, typically, but we're going to continue to provide support to them 394 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,680 through November, and other jurisdictions in the way in and around the state as well that might 395 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,120 need some help for various reasons. 396 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,600 Is that help with your questions? 397 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:11,300 It does, and two director-braiders point, the most recent ruling by the Appellate Court is that those 37 need to be tabulated. 398 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,300 We're still waiting to hear about the process for that. 399 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:22,680 But I guess for me, that's what becomes so important in regards to any investigation, 400 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:33,340 and because those 37 that we have not seen were subject to the same, I guess, 401 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,240 the same process 402 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:44,400 or they could be included in those pre-syncs where the unusual markings on ballots occurred. 403 00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:51,920 So if we were told, you know what, we've investigated, there's no issue here, to me it empowers 404 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,020 the decision and makes me feel more comfortable about going forward with that process, knowing 405 00:35:57,020 --> 00:35:59,020 that everything has been investigated. 406 00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:11,400 Do we have anything from the Attorney General's office to add to that? 407 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:19,890 Well, things referred for criminal investigation is a different division for me. 408 00:36:20,730 --> 00:36:25,990 So I'm aware that I believe that we are investigating things to do with the hemtraumatic, 409 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:28,010 but I'm not aware of the status of that. 410 00:36:28,010 --> 00:36:30,010 And if there's no news from our department, 411 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:31,370 it means we're still looking at it. 412 00:36:31,870 --> 00:36:33,630 So that is an active investigation. 413 00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:36,290 From what I recall, that there is, 414 00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:40,870 we have an inactive investigation into some of the hand-traumatic 415 00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:41,810 voting issues. 416 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,440 We'll continue to be here and monitor it for you as well. 417 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,720 We've been through your eyes. 418 00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:52,880 And you also know how to reach all of us. 419 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,760 I do. 420 00:36:55,140 --> 00:36:56,100 In multiple ways. 421 00:36:57,380 --> 00:37:03,160 I would add one more thing before you before we move on, and that is we really appreciate the effort 422 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:13,580 that you and your team, your board members have done, you bring a lot of credit to the process. 423 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:21,600 When County does a really good job, you walk in the door, it doesn't appear partisan at all, 424 00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:25,060 and we're there to do a job, and everybody seems to feel the same way. 425 00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:29,960 speaks loudly for the, for the, for the fear and transparent elections in Michigan. 426 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:45,640 It's something that I had the privilege of serving on the Wayne County Board for about, I don't know, six or eight months before I was appointed to this position, and I was really impressed with the work that the Wayne County staff did. 427 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:54,820 It's a big job, it's much bigger job than any other county has, there were 900 and some 428 00:37:54,820 --> 00:38:02,940 pre-sinks and so one goes in and sees this enormous aisles of all books which have to be 429 00:38:02,940 --> 00:38:11,040 reviewed and which are meticulously reviewed, so it's a big job and they do it well. 430 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:21,880 I think you'd be rather overwhelmed walking in now with early-voting, voting centers and 431 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:29,700 absentee counting boards, the magnitude of data that comes in, we don't have space for 432 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:30,260 any more. 433 00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:32,500 So, it's piles. 434 00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:33,900 We have levels. 435 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,220 Thank you. 436 00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:37,860 Thank you again for your time. 437 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,160 Thanks for taking time to come over. 438 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:45,100 Do you want me to sit down and come, like, what do you want me to do for, or are you, I'm sorry. 439 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:49,320 For part two, the other one, which you can move on. 440 00:38:49,380 --> 00:38:51,080 You know what you do have part two, go ahead. 441 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:53,880 Okay. 442 00:38:58,060 --> 00:38:59,000 Members of the board. 443 00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:12,180 As a county canvasser and Michigan voter, I feel compelled to also express my confusion regarding the standards of accountability that were applied to affidavits during the recent review of American 444 00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:14,000 for citizens voting petition. 445 00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:19,820 What I witnessed during the Board's discussion was more than a disagreement over individual 446 00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:20,660 signatures. 447 00:39:21,580 --> 00:39:23,640 For me, it raised a broader question. 448 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,320 Are we applying consistent standards when determining whether a voter's identity and signature 449 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,000 are valid? 450 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:37,220 As I understand the process, ballot proposal signatures under GOQVF review, when a signature 451 00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:44,720 rejected the promoter is given an opportunity to rehabilitate. In several ACV cases, that rehabilitation 452 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:51,100 was extensive and the state subsequently acknowledged the signatures as valid, yet despite 453 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:59,360 statements made during discussions that there should be a really high bar to remove signatures. 454 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:06,920 These signatures are real voters. I'm not a handwriting expert. Members never the less rejected 455 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:12,520 signatures because the rehabilitation occurred outside the 48-hour rule. 456 00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:18,700 Our Michigan election system recognizes the importance of allowing voters to cure deficiencies. 457 00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:24,860 Absentee voters may cure a rejected signature within a statutory time frame. 458 00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:30,400 Move ballots postmarked by election day may be received up to six days after the election. 459 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:37,900 Likewise, a voter who arrives at a precinct without photo ID may sign an affidavit and 460 00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:39,200 cast a regular ballot. 461 00:40:39,820 --> 00:40:45,460 As of today, the number of Wayne County voters using affidavits has increased significantly 462 00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:55,480 from 221 in the August of 225 pre-marry, primary, to 961 in August of 226. 463 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Thousands of voters statewide have similarly used this process. 464 00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:06,760 In the ACV case, signatures were subjected to additional verification, yet rejected because 465 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:12,760 the supporting documentation was submitted outside an administrative deadline. 466 00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:19,140 Meanwhile Michigan law provides voters multiple mechanisms to establish identity or 467 00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:21,540 cure deficiencies when casting a ballot. 468 00:41:21,540 --> 00:41:24,140 The contrast is striking to me. 469 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:31,820 I'm not suggesting deadlines be ignored, deadlines matter, procedures matter, election integrity 470 00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:35,700 matters, but consistency matters too. 471 00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:42,540 If a signature has been substantially verified, it is reasonable to ask whether a procedural 472 00:41:42,540 --> 00:41:49,540 deadline should outweigh evidence establishing its validity, and if a more stringent standard 473 00:41:49,540 --> 00:41:56,820 is applied to a petition signature, then to establishing the identity of a person actually casting 474 00:41:56,820 --> 00:41:57,420 a ballot. 475 00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:00,340 The public deserves to understand why. 476 00:42:00,860 --> 00:42:06,520 My concern is not simply whether these particular signatures were accepted or rejected. 477 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:13,340 It is whether the principles of verification, accountability, and fairness are being applied 478 00:42:13,340 --> 00:42:16,340 consistently throughout our elections. 479 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:17,720 Thank you. 480 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,020 Thank you, 481 00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:27,310 and that comment was under general. 482 00:42:27,470 --> 00:42:28,530 That was public comment. 483 00:42:29,650 --> 00:42:30,070 It's okay. 484 00:42:30,890 --> 00:42:31,010 They, 485 00:42:33,250 --> 00:42:37,370 for Sieger, you had an item number seven mark, which you talked about with the 486 00:42:37,370 --> 00:42:39,310 end-traffic, as new business, and it's okay. 487 00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:41,530 I'm going to regard them all together here, is that fair? 488 00:42:43,590 --> 00:42:44,230 This coming. 489 00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:46,870 You wanted to address public comment. 490 00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:47,830 Right. 491 00:42:47,830 --> 00:42:57,750 So we received an email from a Michigan resident named Paula Kenzu, and we received two emails 492 00:42:57,750 --> 00:43:04,910 actually one on Friday, September 4th, let me get the date of the other one. 493 00:43:05,250 --> 00:43:11,130 It was to myself, I think she was trying to include everybody on the board, but didn't have 494 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:18,450 to address email addresses for a few of you, and then Monday, September 21st, and essentially 495 00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:29,510 she was upset about the voting that occurred for Americans for citizen voting, and she 496 00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:41,110 called me out for a comment, and I made about not having time to read some material. So I just 497 00:43:41,110 --> 00:43:47,170 that I agree with much of what Ms. Kenzu has stated being a member of the Michigan Board of 498 00:43:47,170 --> 00:43:53,090 State Canvasers comes with a lot of responsibility. It is an honor to have been appointed by 499 00:43:53,090 --> 00:43:59,030 Governor Whitmer and I take this opportunity very seriously. The Board has rules and policies 500 00:43:59,030 --> 00:44:07,750 that help maintain consistency in fairness. Rule 168.844 provides that parties may file written arguments 501 00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:13,610 with the board at least 48 hours before the date of the hearing. There is an accompanying rule 502 00:44:14,410 --> 00:44:21,610 1.6.846, which requires that members of the public must submit materials to the board at least 48 503 00:44:21,610 --> 00:44:28,670 hours prior to the meeting. The rule also provides that the board shall not consider material received 504 00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:36,070 after the 48 hour deadline. That is a rule I followed on August 24, 2026 when deciding not to 505 00:44:36,070 --> 00:44:41,990 consider the material that was being presented to us that morning. That is what I was 506 00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:46,010 referring to when I indicated we did not have time to read the additional material that 507 00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:52,290 was presented to us that day. Not only did we not have time but we are also bound by our rules 508 00:44:52,290 --> 00:44:59,330 not to consider it. It would have been unfair if we did. The opposing party was not allowed to do so. 509 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:09,920 We refused to entertain evidence the opposing party submitted that was late. We have done so in the past and I will continue to do so, unless told otherwise. 510 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:18,260 Notably, the Bureau's report and staff recommendation that day was that the Board determined the petitions insufficient. 511 00:45:18,260 --> 00:45:25,840 After reviewing every piece of timely evidence, coming to Lansing prior to the meeting and reviewing signatures, 512 00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:30,520 listening to seven hours of arguments that occurred during the meeting, 513 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,320 I agreed with the Bureau that the petitions were insufficient. 514 00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:39,520 I agree that the Americans for citizen voting was painfully close. 515 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:46,460 It was a very difficult day, but that is not the fault of the board or those of us on the board who voted no. 516 00:45:46,460 --> 00:45:49,460 That is the fault of Americans for citizen voting. 517 00:45:49,940 --> 00:45:57,640 The failure of this sloppy petition rests solely on edge shoulders, and that's all I wanted to say. 518 00:45:59,530 --> 00:46:00,190 Thank you. 519 00:46:00,410 --> 00:46:00,730 Thank you. 520 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:13,100 Director Brader, Mr. Fracasi, addressing to either one of you gentlemen, it's been a pretty 521 00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:16,720 eventful month since we were, is that 522 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:19,640 do I get to get the award for understatement there? 523 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,700 It's been a fairly eventful month and 524 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:26,480 Director 525 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,240 Brader, Mr. Fracasi, addressing to either one 526 00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:34,880 of you gentlemen, it's been a pretty eventful month 527 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,400 since we were, is that do I get to get the award 528 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,200 for understatement there? 529 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,390 It's been a fairly eventful month and I would, 530 00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:49,650 I'd like to open up the floor to either of you, 531 00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:55,110 both of you, to share any thoughts, any updates, 532 00:46:56,490 --> 00:47:01,930 any, we've had two court opinions, one from the U.S. Supreme Court. 533 00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:03,950 I have to tell you, 534 00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:07,630 I mentioned to my wife Renee. 535 00:47:07,810 --> 00:47:12,710 I said at one point, I wanted to become an attorney long, long, long, long time ago. 536 00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:21,350 And Congressman Vanderjack was kind enough to write me a letter to get into law school and he said maybe someday you'll be in front of the U.S. Supreme Court 537 00:47:21,350 --> 00:47:23,710 The fact that our transcripts 538 00:47:24,970 --> 00:47:26,730 are now on the court's website 539 00:47:26,730 --> 00:47:28,490 is not quite 540 00:47:29,310 --> 00:47:34,290 the same but the goal certainly has been achieved and just see you know I've taken it off of my bucket list 541 00:47:36,610 --> 00:47:41,470 Do you gentlemen have anything you'd like to add to where we are and 542 00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:50,840 Yeah, so I appreciate that, and I was going to talk during other business also about sort of the house committee which I'll talk about a second. 543 00:47:51,600 --> 00:48:05,380 So, I mean, yes, it is not unusual for there to be litigation after the Board's decisions on petitions and on initiative petitions, specifically, that's happened in the past. 544 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:14,980 I think that these, this case was different, one because the U.S. Supreme Court was involved 545 00:48:14,980 --> 00:48:21,240 in two just because of how close the determination was and obviously people don't on both sides 546 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,400 felt very strongly about it. 547 00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:30,180 So I think, you know, in responding to, you know, in reviewing the briefing in the cases and, 548 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,260 you know, both those were submitted on behalf of those that were submitted on behalf of all 549 00:48:34,260 --> 00:48:42,680 parties and also just some of the public discussion about a couple of things. One, one thing 550 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:49,880 is more to keep in mind is that we get basically one shot at developing our procedures every 551 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:56,820 two-year cycle. So after we go through an election cycle we review the board's determinations 552 00:48:56,820 --> 00:49:01,560 on specific matters that maybe hadn't come up before or maybe that the current board handles 553 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,380 in a slightly different way than the pass boards. 554 00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:07,420 We also are obviously looking at court decisions that come 555 00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:08,680 through like the Wickman decision, 556 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,220 which came through that changed the procedures 557 00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:12,060 that we had in place, 558 00:49:12,260 --> 00:49:14,100 then also rulemaking and legislation. 559 00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:18,180 So what we attempt to do is basically review all the issues 560 00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:20,400 that it came up during a cycle. 561 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,840 Make sure those are all reflected in the manual 562 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:25,860 and the board's materials, 563 00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:27,360 bring that to the board for approval 564 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,000 and then use that for the upcoming election cycle. 565 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,600 And we'll certainly do that for this cycle as well. 566 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:39,320 And I think one example where we had a petition process 567 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,720 with some strong feelings like this was the 2022 568 00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:46,780 gubernatorial issue in the primary of that lead 569 00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:51,240 to us to moving to random sampling for the statewide officers 570 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,620 which I think was an ultimately a good change 571 00:49:53,620 --> 00:49:55,560 and helped us resolve some of these issues differently. 572 00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:02,120 even though obviously the folks that we're not, you know, we're 573 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,740 regardless of how they felt about the determination that was made in the past cycle, 574 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,440 making those changes would allow us to hopefully handle these more clearly in the future. 575 00:50:09,660 --> 00:50:15,820 So, I think in this case, the board definitely should consider all the feedback that is 576 00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:21,080 received and we can look at going to next cycle, how the board wants to address some of these things. 577 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:39,340 That's obviously within the confines of the election law and the administrative rules, which brings me to the last point, which is that we do have the State House as convene to select committee reviewing this process, which I know you're all aware of. 578 00:50:40,020 --> 00:50:47,800 They've started meeting, they did have a meeting on Monday of this week I believe, with the representatives from American Forces and Voting. 579 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:54,660 I understand they're also requesting to hear from Michigan money out of politics, and then they 580 00:50:54,660 --> 00:50:59,280 have also sent a lot of requests to the Department of State's slash group elections, which 581 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,260 we are in the process of responding to. 582 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,100 We are going to be providing a lot of information to them. 583 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,880 There's also some things that we have questions about that will continue to work with them on. 584 00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,900 I mean, I'm sure there will continue to be strong feelings that are expressed as a part 585 00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:15,500 of that process. 586 00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:23,620 But ultimately, my hope would be that we can look at some process changes that we can make 587 00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:28,500 to provide as much clarity as we can in consistency as we can. 588 00:51:28,620 --> 00:51:32,600 The Board, of course, has already tried to make, you know, push legislative changes. 589 00:51:32,780 --> 00:51:33,660 The Board was very active. 590 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,940 And the Bureau was supporting the Board in that effort to try to get some changes made to the 591 00:51:38,940 --> 00:51:42,520 election law that I think if they had been enacted, might have helped resolve some of the issues 592 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,180 that we faced, it was not enacted. 593 00:51:45,940 --> 00:51:47,840 So one thing that could potentially come out of this 594 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,340 is another effort to pass some legislation 595 00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:52,400 that could address some of these issues. 596 00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:54,240 But regardless of what comes out of that, 597 00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,180 I think it's going to be important for the board. 598 00:51:56,420 --> 00:51:59,240 Outside of the context of considering a specific petition, 599 00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:01,820 but just the petition process broadly, 600 00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:04,700 to get the best possible set of requirements 601 00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:05,600 we can in place. 602 00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:10,460 Once we do that, an effortly what we find is that we may 603 00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:11,900 have addressed some of the issues they came up with 604 00:52:11,900 --> 00:52:16,040 past cycle, but now there are new issues that come up at the board as a deal with on the fly. 605 00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:21,140 And of course we have very talented and motivated attorneys that are looking for, you know, 606 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,740 making the best argument they can for their clients. And that's always pressing the board to consider 607 00:52:27,220 --> 00:52:30,000 new issues or issues in new context. So I think the- 608 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:44,640 The best that we can do is apply the procedures that we haven't placed to the positions that come before us, and then after the fact, look at what went well and what people weren't happy about and see to what extent we should make changes to how we'll address those things in the future. 609 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:52,940 That's where our focus is going to be, and hopefully we'll come out of this with a process that works as well as possible for everybody involved. 610 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:55,200 Thank you, Director Brader. 611 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,560 I would add to that. 612 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:57,620 I guess two points. 613 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,920 One is, at least during my tenure on the board. 614 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:10,300 I've watched the Bureau and the Board and participated in a constant review of how we conduct business. 615 00:53:11,620 --> 00:53:15,700 And we have always looked at this as being something where we try to be fair. 616 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:21,420 But the other point being is that during the last election cycle, 617 00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:28,900 We were, we were actually part of discussions in the State House working closely with us. 618 00:53:29,140 --> 00:53:35,280 We were part of discussions and we attended a hearing for a package of legislation that 619 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,040 significantly improved process. 620 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,620 And I know that that was a, that was a bipartisan, truly a bipartisan effort. 621 00:53:44,340 --> 00:53:50,100 And both Republicans and Democrats in both House and Senate came together, put aside any 622 00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:59,660 differences, impact, and past significant benefits, legislation that would have significant 623 00:53:59,660 --> 00:54:00,340 benefits, 624 00:54:03,770 --> 00:54:09,330 that legislation was vetoed, and that's outside of our conversation, but the 625 00:54:09,330 --> 00:54:14,950 point that I'm trying to make is that the legislature has worked with them, and I think 626 00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:18,670 good things have come out, and good things will come out in the future. 627 00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:24,790 So, that being in the case, is there any other business to come before this board? 628 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,120 I have something that I would like to address. 629 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:37,700 People are worried, of course, about the administration of the election in November. 630 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:50,020 And we have a role to play, and our role is certification, and I have heard concerns 631 00:54:50,020 --> 00:54:59,180 expressed about whether any counties might fail or refuse to certify. 632 00:55:00,140 --> 00:55:06,440 And so I think it is important just to clarify the certification issue. 633 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:15,980 It is the obligation of the county boards of canvassers to certify the results in each county. 634 00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:22,740 And they have to do that within a statutory period of time, 14 days, I believe. 635 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:32,300 One thing that people need to understand, that we understand, is that if the county fails to certify, 636 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,940 it is the obligation of the State Board to certify, 637 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,220 and the county is then required to provide them all of its materials, 638 00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:50,480 and the two county canvassers are required to come themselves to the State Board to assist 639 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,840 the State Board in completing that canvas. 640 00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:02,180 There has, remember, our House Camp, you've noted that there has been legislative 641 00:56:02,180 --> 00:56:07,080 It's just one that was not vetoed. 642 00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:12,740 Was it changed to make in the provision regarding the county canvas? 643 00:56:13,420 --> 00:56:21,780 It was clarified to specifically say, and this was in a 24 piece of legislation. 644 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,660 It is the ministerial clerical and non-discussionary duty of each board of county 645 00:56:27,660 --> 00:56:34,420 canvassers and all of the members to certify the election results based solely on the statement 646 00:56:34,420 --> 00:56:39,520 of returns from the election day precincts, or the voting sites, and absent voting 647 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,220 county boards. 648 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:50,200 So to the extent that it wasn't clear before, it is absolutely clear now that the decision 649 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:55,460 regarding certification is one, which is not a discretionary one. 650 00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:58,180 Nor is our decision discretionary. 651 00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:02,460 The county results come to us. 652 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,720 They get all tallied up, and we say, yep, that's it. 653 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:16,260 And it is our job to be the final vote for certifying the election, 654 00:57:16,820 --> 00:57:23,080 and then actually giving to each of the elected officials the 655 00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:32,800 promoter. We signed so many certifications. So I think it is important, you know, there 656 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:38,100 are not many people here, but people do watch. I'm surprised to hear sometimes that somebody 657 00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:39,200 is actually watched, 658 00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:46,540 but it is important that that be clearly understood by the general 659 00:57:46,540 --> 00:57:53,340 public that this is not something where anyone in the process says, well, maybe this time 660 00:57:53,340 --> 00:58:01,840 I won't certify. It will be certified. And I know that other other people with election 661 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:09,100 responsibility are looking very carefully to make sure that there is not interference with 662 00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:19,340 the elections. And I have great great confidence in the election administration in Michigan. 663 00:58:20,500 --> 00:58:31,260 I have seen it from various levels in precincts in county boards here. I've seen what 664 00:58:31,260 --> 00:58:37,100 the bureau does. I know what the bureau does. And I have absolute confidence that it 665 00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:39,280 be a fairly run election. 666 00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:44,600 Thank you, Vice Chair. 667 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,720 Anything else we need to chat about? 668 00:58:49,540 --> 00:58:53,340 That being said, it is five minutes to 12, four minutes to 12. 669 00:58:54,380 --> 00:58:55,040 We are adjourned.