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And as a reminder to all post - Act members,

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presenters and public speakers, please make sure you're within two

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inches of the microphone when speaking. This helps ensure we

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maintain an accurate public record. Members of the committee are

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you ready. We are ready. All right, we can begin.

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Thank you. And good evening and welcome to the June

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25, 2026 meeting of Boulder County Parks and Open Space

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Advisory Committee. I'm Trace Baker, and I'm chair for this

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term. We'll start off with the roll call. Trace Baker

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here. Carol Byrly. Here. Christine Johnson. Here. Lauren

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Kelso. Here. Vicky Lawrence. Here. Joan Lutz. Jeff Audi

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is excused, although he is going to be participating remotely.

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And I do see him on the video at the

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end of the hall here. And John White here. Thank

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you. None of the topics we have tonight are scheduled

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for decision recommendations to the County Commissioners. So therefore, we

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will not be taking public comment tonight. And our first

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topic is Michelle Marati presenting on the five - year

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study. So it's yours. Great. Thank you, Trace. I'm really

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happy to be here this evening. Thanks for having me.

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As Drew said, I'm Michelle Muradi. I work on the

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education and outreach team in the land stewardship branch for

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the department. In addition to education outreach and volunteer work,

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I'm also responsible for conducting some of the visitor studies

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for the department. And that's what I'm here to talk

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about today is the five - year visitor study that

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was conducted last year. And the results of that. So

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this is an overview of what I'm going to talk

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about this evening. So I'm going to cover the purpose.

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The reason why we did the study, the areas that

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we surveyed, the methodology that we used. And I'll spend

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most of my time going over some of the results

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of the study. So some of the overall results and

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some of the demographic results, we won't be able to

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cover all of the questions that were asked in the

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survey just because of the time frame that we have

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tonight. So why do we do this study? In order

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to gather information about park visitors, Boulder County Parks and

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OpenSpace are department has actually been doing this system -

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wide survey every five years since 1995, which is pretty

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incredible. So some of the questions have a data set

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going all the way back to 1995. Other questions we

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have not asked for that long of a timeframe, but

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that's how long the study has been going on. And

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it's really meant to be a snapshot of all visitors

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during the busiest months of the years of the year,

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and it's most helpful for looking at really those overall

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trends and to better understand what's shown on the slide.

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So the demographics of our visitors, visitation patterns, satisfaction with

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their park experiences, and our management practices. And then also,

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perceive the perception of conflict and crowding out on the

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trails. I did want to mention, though, that this is

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one study that we do about our park visitors, and

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it does help give us this broad understanding, but it's

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not the only study that we will do to understand

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our park visitors. So we do have a visitor count

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program where we estimate visitation to all of our parks

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on an annual basis. And then we also do have

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volunteers and staff who are collecting observational data about visitor

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activities. And then for more specific questions that we have

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where we want to address questions about a specific demographic

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group or a specific management concern, or maybe a specific

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park, we'll do additional studies. And those may be done

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in - house. They may be contracted out, or they

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may be through the small grant research program. These are

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the parks where we surveyed. So we surveyed at 15

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different properties and a total of 28 different survey locations.

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So some of these properties on the list, they have

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multiple trailheads. So Hall Ranch, Waldon Pons, wildlife habitat, Haw

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Valley Ranch, and Walker Ranch. And we surveyed at each

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of their trailheads. And then some of the properties they

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may not have a formal trailhead, but they have other

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access points that are major access points where people come

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through that trail system. Like Carolyn Holmberg Preserve at Rock

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Creek Farm, as well as Lagerman Reservoir and Batasso Preserve.

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And so for those locations, we also did survey at

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those other major access points. And all of the surveying

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for the parks where we did multiple locations was based

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on the visitation to each of those access points. How

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many shifts we would do so that we could get

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an accurate picture of visitation to those parks and visitors

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to those parks. So when did we survey? Um, so

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historically, the study was conducted from memorial data labor day.

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Uh, and then in 2010, we extended it through September.

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And so, uh, we matched that timeframe. So we surveyed

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from May 28 to September 30th. And this is an

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exit survey. So we're asking people to complete surveys as

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they leave the park. And we, um, made sure that

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we were getting accurate representation, um, for all days of

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the week. So weekdays and weekends, as well as morning,

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afternoon and evening shifts. And then for each property where

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we did survey, um, we were looking to get anywhere

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from 125 to 175 surveys based on the visitation of

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that park. So higher visitation parks. We tried to get

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more surveys, lower visitation parks. We had a slightly lower

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goal. All right. Here are the people that made it

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happen. We had 18 volunteers and 15 staff. So a

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total of 33 surveyors, uh, in order to collect all

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of this data. And so across the 15 Park properties,

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we did a total of 245 survey sessions. Each survey

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session was about two hours each. Um, so we did

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490 hours spent surving in the parks. And after all

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of that, we were able to get 2, 594 surveys

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that were completed, deemed valid and used in the study.

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Uh, this sample size gave us a 1. 9 percent

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estimated margin of error with the confidence level of 95

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percent. And we also were able to get a 71

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percent response rate, which is great if you know survey

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response rates. Uh, and I really think it shows how

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much our park visitors care about our parks and also

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how much they want us to, uh, take their feedback

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in consideration about those parked properties that they love. Oh.

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Let's give it a head. Anyways. So, uh, we're going

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to talk about the results now. So I'm going to

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go through, um, slides of some of the different questions

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that we asked and talk you through. Uh, some of

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the highlights from those questions, uh, it is a lot

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of data on the slides. So hopefully it won't go

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through too quickly. But, uh, I think I'll try to

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kind of use my, uh, little cursor to highlight things

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and talk through a few things that aren't also included

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in the slides. Okay. So one of the questions we

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asked that we actually haven't, um, asked since 2010 was

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about information sources. So we asked people, did they seek

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information about the park prior to their visit that day?

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And we found that, uh, to visit the park that

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day. And then we also asked them, where did you

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get that information? And so this slide is highlighting where

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people mention that they got information if they sought it

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before their visit. You can see here that the main

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ways people are getting information is the Boulder County website.

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And this is the same as we saw in 2010

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that people were mainly getting information from the Boulder County

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website, uh, what's new is that these trail and park

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apps are very, very popular way of getting information. So,

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uh, a different trailer perk app and Cotrex that accounts

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for good amount of people that are getting information. So

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friends or family, um, to get information about a park

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that day. Okay. So this is the second time that

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we've asked about parking difficulty. So we asked about parking

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difficulty in 2021 as well. Uh, I do want to

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mention that this surveys and exit surveys. So we're only

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capturing people that were actually able to park at the

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park. So this is not telling us people that had

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so much difficulty that they had to leave the park

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property. Yes, Carol. Um, excuse me to interrupt, but I'm

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wondering about the timing of this because this is from

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2025, but that you said a lot of the information

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is from 2021. No, so, um, so there was a

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study in 2021. The five year study was supposed to

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be conducted in 2020. And then it was conducted in

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2021 because it was delayed a year for the pandemic.

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So this study is from 2025, but there are surveys

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going back to 1995. So every five years. So some

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of the questions will have data from multiple years. Then

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you say the surveys were collected in 2021. The surveys

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were collected in 2025. That's an error if it says.

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Yeah. That's a typo. Okay. Yes. 2025. Okay. Yes. And

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then you also refer to 2010 comparison. But I thought

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you had surveys every five years. We do. So we

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have surveys every five years, but not every single question

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is continuously asked every single time. So sometimes we'll adjust

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the questions and remove questions and add questions. Um, based

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off of staff recommendations. So we do have some questions

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that have been asked consistently. Um, since 1995, but the

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other questions that we, we don't have that long -

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term data set for. Okay. Does that help? Okay. Yeah.

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Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. The first slide had 2021 on

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it too. Yeah. So see some of us were confused.

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Okay. Sorry about that. That's my mistake. Okay. I'll go

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forward. All right. Looking at parking. So, uh, this, if

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you look at this table, it'll show you the results

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from 2025, um, overall in the first column. And then

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it's broken out by weekends and weekdays and the other

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two columns. As I was saying, uh, this is only

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people who could actually park at the park. And so

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it's not capturing people who did have to leave and

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were able to find parking. Uh, so what you'll see

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is that about five percent of people reported parking as

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difficult or very difficult, uh, overall. And then when you

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look at weekends versus weekdays, uh, it's a little bit

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more than two thirds had trouble parking, um, on weekends.

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And it also, when you look at mornings versus afternoons

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versus evening, so what we're seeing is that we weekend

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mornings are really the busiest times in our parks when

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people are having the hardest time finding parking. Michelle. Yes.

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Peaco Lawrence Pozak. Just another quick question. Did you make

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any effort to count the number of people that couldn't

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park and just left? Did you ever stand at the

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parking lots and watch and see who just bailed and

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went away? No, that wasn't part of this study. Okay.

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We asked two questions about visitor activities. So we asked

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people about all activities that they participated in the park

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that day. And then we also asked visitors, what was

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their primary activity today at this park? So this slide

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is just highlighting the results of the primary activity showing

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both the 2025 and 2021 results. And you can see

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that they're pretty consistent over the past four years. So

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the majority of visitors reported their primary activity being hiking,

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biking, running or walking the dog. Uh, if you look

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at the overall activities, you will see that there are

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a lot more people that are going out and wildlife

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viewing, doing photography and art, family gatherings, picnicking. So that

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is those activities are happening in our parks. They're just

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not being recorded as that primary activity. Uh, this will

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kind of highlight a question that's been asked for over

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a significant period of time. So this shows, uh, when

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we ask people how often have they visited the park?

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We've been asking that since 2005. And in 1995 and

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2005, um, we also, um, the question was kind of

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worded a little differently, um, but from 2010 on, it's

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been worded more consistently. Uh, and what you can see

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is that, uh, the number of visitors that are first

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time visitors, uh, was increasing over time up until 2021

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where we had just over 30, 31 percent of visitors

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that it was the first time there's their first time

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at the park that day. Uh, I also wanted to

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mention, uh, on here that when you look at frequency

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of visitation and you break down visitors that are infrequent

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visitors. So come once a season or less versus visitors

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that come once a month or more. Uh, you'll see

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that, uh, 57 percent are seasonal visitors or infrequent visitors

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in 43 percent visit very frequently So I think that's

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really important for us to remember is that we have

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that kind of break of visitors that come a lot

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and visitors that come less frequently that are out in

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the parks. Next we ask people about the number of

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trail miles in the park. So thinking just of that

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park where they were that day, how would they describe

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the number of trail miles on a scale of one

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to 10 with one being not enough and five being

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too many? And we've been seeing the number of visitors

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that are reporting that we have about the right number

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of trails increasing, uh, and so in 2025, uh, we

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saw a three percent increase from 2021. So now 72

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percent of our visitors reported that we had about the

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right number of trails. Now this does vary depending on

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which park, um, that they were surveyed. So the properties

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00:16:15,851 --> 00:16:18,531
with the highest percentage of visitors that reported not enough

240
00:16:18,792 --> 00:16:22,451
trails. So they selected one or two, uh, was Hall

241
00:16:22,491 --> 00:16:27,791
Ranch, bald Mountain Batasso preserve and higher valley ranch. And

242
00:16:27,791 --> 00:16:30,611
we also know that bikers and runners were more likely

243
00:16:30,632 --> 00:16:34,371
than hikers to report their not enough trails, uh, and

244
00:16:34,371 --> 00:16:39,171
so three of those properties are big mountain biking destinations.

245
00:16:39,171 --> 00:16:41,491
Uh, the properties with the highest percent of visitors that

246
00:16:41,512 --> 00:16:44,771
thought we had the right number of trails was Carolyn

247
00:16:44,811 --> 00:16:54,348
Holmberg Preserve Walker Ranch Walden Ponds and Caribou Ranch. Okay.

248
00:16:54,348 --> 00:16:58,108
So we asked visitors if they experienced at the experience

249
00:16:58,289 --> 00:17:00,988
conflict at the park that day. And we found that

250
00:17:01,028 --> 00:17:04,268
the vast majority of people did not have any conflicts

251
00:17:05,089 --> 00:17:09,926
with only four percent of visitors experiencing conflicts. Uh, This

252
00:17:10,027 --> 00:17:15,926
question was added to the five year study, um, in

253
00:17:16,107 --> 00:17:21,846
2025. Um, and there was, uh, conflict study, um, going

254
00:17:21,947 --> 00:17:25,926
back a little bit further. Um, but, uh, you'll see

255
00:17:26,027 --> 00:17:28,646
in 2010, we had our peak conflict. That was when

256
00:17:28,646 --> 00:17:30,886
we asked not an open - ended question, but we

257
00:17:30,886 --> 00:17:34,966
actually had categories of conflicts that people could read through.

258
00:17:34,966 --> 00:17:37,526
And after that, we decided to return to an open

259
00:17:37,547 --> 00:17:39,926
- ended question because we weren't sure if people were

260
00:17:40,347 --> 00:17:43,206
selecting things they felt should be conflicts or if they

261
00:17:43,206 --> 00:17:46,726
were actually experiencing conflicts by just selecting from the list.

262
00:17:46,726 --> 00:17:50,086
So it remains an open - ended question. Uh, the

263
00:17:50,107 --> 00:17:54,406
properties with the highest conflict are Hall Ranch, Lagerman Agricultural

264
00:17:54,427 --> 00:17:58,566
Preserve, Batasso Preserve and Carolyn Holmberg preserve. Uh, the parks

265
00:17:58,606 --> 00:18:02,246
where we saw the lowest conflict reported were Pela Crossing

266
00:18:02,587 --> 00:18:07,106
Rabid Mountain, Walden Ponds, Bald Mountain, and Legion Park. And

267
00:18:07,106 --> 00:18:10,966
all of those had just one percent conflict. So the

268
00:18:11,006 --> 00:18:14,326
top conflicts that we were, it was about 90 people

269
00:18:14,347 --> 00:18:16,966
that reported conflicts and the full list of all those

270
00:18:17,147 --> 00:18:19,446
conflicts is included in the report that you can read

271
00:18:19,467 --> 00:18:22,866
through. Um, but we grouped them into some themes, uh,

272
00:18:22,866 --> 00:18:25,806
to get an idea of what those conflicts were. So

273
00:18:25,806 --> 00:18:28,486
we found that, uh, the conflicts that were most common

274
00:18:28,747 --> 00:18:34,164
were right away passing or trail sharing issues. As well

275
00:18:34,164 --> 00:18:39,924
as, uh, biker speed or communication. Uh, dogs off leash,

276
00:18:39,924 --> 00:18:43,604
uh, bikers not yielding. And that may be, um, bikers

277
00:18:43,644 --> 00:18:47,364
also reporting on other bikers who are not yielding. So,

278
00:18:47,364 --> 00:18:50,624
you know, downhill bikers not yielding to uphill bikers. Uh,

279
00:18:50,624 --> 00:18:53,764
and then lastly, Skittish horses are horses on the trail.

280
00:18:53,764 --> 00:18:56,084
And that was a very small number, but there was

281
00:18:56,585 --> 00:18:59,764
one bad day at caribou ranch, um, that had quite

282
00:18:59,804 --> 00:19:03,604
a few number of reports of conflicts with some skittish

283
00:19:03,644 --> 00:19:10,117
horses that were there that day. Okay. So we asked

284
00:19:10,157 --> 00:19:17,320
about crowding. And this is, uh, tables showing crowding on

285
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,840
the weekend and the weekday at the trailhead and at

286
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:28,200
the trail. And so let me walk you through this.

287
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,760
So respondents were asked to rate their crowded feeling on

288
00:19:30,781 --> 00:19:33,400
a scale of not at all crowded to very crowded.

289
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,040
So this is the second time that we've asked them

290
00:19:36,221 --> 00:19:39,080
to rate how crowded they felt both at the trailhead

291
00:19:39,101 --> 00:19:43,400
and on the trail. And so that's what this is

292
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,680
actually showing is, um, weekends at the trailhead and on

293
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,840
the trail. And then weekdays at the trailhead and on

294
00:19:50,840 --> 00:20:00,121
the trail. This up. Hold on. One sec. Okay. So,

295
00:20:00,121 --> 00:20:03,001
uh, the properties with the highest rating for crowding were

296
00:20:03,001 --> 00:20:07,001
visitors felt moderately to extremely crowded at the trailhead were

297
00:20:07,041 --> 00:20:11,541
annu white caribou ranch, hall ranch and potassio preserve. The

298
00:20:11,541 --> 00:20:14,761
properties with the average, um, the highest average rating for

299
00:20:14,782 --> 00:20:17,721
crowding on the trail. So that was at the trailhead.

300
00:20:17,721 --> 00:20:22,121
This is on the trail is also annual white, hall

301
00:20:22,161 --> 00:20:25,881
ranch, caribou ranch, but then you have Colton Trailhead thrown

302
00:20:25,921 --> 00:20:34,078
in there as well. So on a weekend, feeling moderately

303
00:20:34,099 --> 00:20:37,038
to extremely crowded at the trailhead and 12 percent on

304
00:20:37,038 --> 00:20:40,878
the trail. And on a weekday nine percent reported feeling

305
00:20:40,899 --> 00:20:47,271
moderately to extremely crowded at the trailhead. We did ask

306
00:20:47,311 --> 00:20:51,551
them their opinion on an e - bike pilot. So

307
00:20:52,012 --> 00:20:55,991
current, uh, this question was basically asking about a potential

308
00:20:56,332 --> 00:21:00,231
e - bike pilot, um, on designated trails, um, in

309
00:21:00,271 --> 00:21:03,831
the foothills and mountains. So currently e - bikes are

310
00:21:03,932 --> 00:21:07,991
allowed on our planes trails. And so, uh, this is

311
00:21:08,031 --> 00:21:10,631
looking just at foothills and mountain trails that already allow

312
00:21:10,892 --> 00:21:15,031
bike use. So that includes potassium preserve, hall ranch, higher

313
00:21:15,071 --> 00:21:19,234
valley ranch and Ron Stewart preserve. And we found for

314
00:21:19,335 --> 00:21:27,154
all respondents about half, a quarter of all respondents indicated

315
00:21:27,194 --> 00:21:32,754
they were neutral. And strongly support an e - bike

316
00:21:32,794 --> 00:21:36,434
pilot. So bikers were more likely than hikers to support

317
00:21:37,495 --> 00:21:41,154
for the pilot with one third of all bikers indicating

318
00:21:41,175 --> 00:21:44,834
support or strong support. Uh, the sample size of visitors

319
00:21:44,834 --> 00:21:47,874
who actually reported e - biking that we got surveys

320
00:21:47,914 --> 00:21:51,830
from was really small. It was only 28 respondents. But

321
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:56,710
96 percent of those supported are strongly supported the pilot.

322
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:59,910
And then we asked visitors for a reason why they

323
00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:03,030
support or oppose. And the most common concerns were about

324
00:22:03,131 --> 00:22:08,310
safety. So high speeds, narrow trails, limited visibility, uh, potential

325
00:22:08,411 --> 00:22:13,190
conflicts, uh, and then many respondents did still say that

326
00:22:13,771 --> 00:22:17,190
they, um, they felt that e - bikes could improve

327
00:22:17,451 --> 00:22:21,670
accessibility for older adults or people with disabilities or those

328
00:22:21,670 --> 00:22:30,336
with limited physical ability. So although, um, some didn't support,

329
00:22:30,336 --> 00:22:33,136
uh, the, the widespread use, they still thought there should

330
00:22:33,136 --> 00:22:39,126
be considerations for accessibility. We ask people, how would they

331
00:22:39,147 --> 00:22:41,766
rate this park overall on a scale of one to

332
00:22:41,806 --> 00:22:45,186
10 with one being poor and 10 being excellent? And

333
00:22:45,186 --> 00:22:47,526
you can see that our park rating has been increasing

334
00:22:47,947 --> 00:22:54,166
since 1995. So in 2025, we got a 9. 0

335
00:22:54,427 --> 00:22:59,846
average overall rating, which is really great. Uh, and people

336
00:23:00,027 --> 00:23:03,766
rated our parks based on the aesthetic beauty scenery, nature

337
00:23:03,947 --> 00:23:06,966
views, uh, that they were well maintained and clean and

338
00:23:07,006 --> 00:23:09,606
that they, there was a good or great hike park

339
00:23:09,646 --> 00:23:15,070
or trail. Uh, this shows our highest rated parks and

340
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:18,730
lowest rated parks kind of going back over time. Uh,

341
00:23:19,171 --> 00:23:22,270
in 2025, Batasso Preserve was our highest rated park. It

342
00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:26,990
was also highest rated in 2005, uh, whereas the lowest

343
00:23:27,011 --> 00:23:31,310
rated park, uh, has been legion park, um, consistently over

344
00:23:31,571 --> 00:23:36,275
the period of the study. All right. I just have

345
00:23:36,456 --> 00:23:41,715
two quick demographic questions. So the first one is residency.

346
00:23:45,045 --> 00:23:51,744
Soulder or Longmont. So adding both of these up.

347
00:23:57,008 --> 00:24:00,747
Uh, and then about a third of visitors are from

348
00:24:03,168 --> 00:24:07,627
outside of Boulder County, including, um, anywhere else in Colorado

349
00:24:08,128 --> 00:24:14,247
outside of Colorado, Denver and Broomfield unincorporated Boulder County. Um,

350
00:24:14,247 --> 00:24:18,027
the rest of, or not including unincorporated Boulder County, sorry

351
00:24:18,027 --> 00:24:20,327
about that. Uh, and then the rest of visitors, uh.

352
00:24:24,980 --> 00:24:27,359
This is kind of showing a combination of two questions

353
00:24:27,460 --> 00:24:29,919
that are asked about Reese and ethnicity in the five

354
00:24:30,020 --> 00:24:32,639
- year study. And they are, uh, designed to match

355
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:36,799
the census so that we can compare, uh, the visitors

356
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,199
to our parks with the Boulder County Census data. So

357
00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:43,119
this is taking those two questions and putting it into

358
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:47,359
one, uh, the two questions that we asked, sorry, this

359
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:48,959
says, what is your age? That wasn't a question that

360
00:24:48,999 --> 00:24:51,599
was asked. So the two questions that were asked where,

361
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:57,119
um, are you of Hispanic, Latina, Latina, Latinx or Spanish

362
00:24:57,220 --> 00:25:00,719
origin? Which of the following best describes your race and

363
00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:06,584
or ethnic heritage? So, uh, you can see here that

364
00:25:06,765 --> 00:25:09,544
there is a, well, I guess you can't see here,

365
00:25:09,544 --> 00:25:11,444
but if you looked back at the other data, you

366
00:25:11,444 --> 00:25:15,544
would see that we have an increase in our Hispanic

367
00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:19,784
Latino Latinx or Spanish visitors. Uh, we had six percent

368
00:25:20,045 --> 00:25:27,864
in 2021 gap when you look at that compared to

369
00:25:27,864 --> 00:25:35,944
the Boulder County Census data, which is at, uh, there

370
00:25:35,984 --> 00:25:38,504
is an increase that is happening. So the work that

371
00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:41,704
is going on with the cultural responsiveness and inclusion strategic

372
00:25:41,725 --> 00:25:44,904
plan and community engagement as well as the changes to

373
00:25:44,904 --> 00:25:47,944
the science standards and messaging manual, maybe having an impact.

374
00:25:51,171 --> 00:25:54,510
All right. So the five year study report is available

375
00:25:54,691 --> 00:26:00,350
online. This is an information only item. Um, I'm, I'm

376
00:26:00,451 --> 00:26:03,710
now pretty much working on, uh, getting the word out

377
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:06,190
to staff about all of the results of the data.

378
00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:08,350
So they have available to them as well as the

379
00:26:08,451 --> 00:26:12,830
public. I'm also working on, uh, story map that's going

380
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:15,550
to be hopefully a more engaging way other than the

381
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:19,150
big long report for people to also, uh, be able

382
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:24,030
to interact and look through the data, uh, map of

383
00:26:24,030 --> 00:26:25,870
all of the parks. And you can zoom into each

384
00:26:25,971 --> 00:26:29,390
individual park and see the results, um, for that individual

385
00:26:29,651 --> 00:26:36,579
park. Okay. Thank you. Michelle, thank you so much. Um,

386
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:42,359
and also my thanks to Tori or assistant, the design

387
00:26:42,860 --> 00:26:46,279
and the analysis in the presentation, I think are just

388
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:50,119
incredible. So thank you. Um, I will open it up

389
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:56,359
to Possac for questions and comments, uh, Jeff, I'm going

390
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,639
to go through the, uh, people who are here. And

391
00:26:59,639 --> 00:27:03,399
then I will, um, uh, call on you when we're

392
00:27:03,399 --> 00:27:06,814
done on the, uh, going around the table here. So

393
00:27:08,115 --> 00:27:14,029
questions from post sack, Christine. Uh, Christine Johnson Posack. I

394
00:27:14,029 --> 00:27:18,309
noticed something in the document that was sent in our

395
00:27:18,349 --> 00:27:23,349
packet. And that is that under 25 was seven percent

396
00:27:23,349 --> 00:27:28,709
of the visitors. And I, I looked up, um, supposedly

397
00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:37,509
under 25 in the county is concerning. And I don't

398
00:27:37,509 --> 00:27:40,469
know if that was an undercount or if young people

399
00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:46,869
are just being indoorsy, um, but, but I'm concerned. And

400
00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:50,469
then just another comment and you can address either of

401
00:27:50,469 --> 00:27:56,529
these comments. Um, I saw in your memo that, um,

402
00:27:57,370 --> 00:28:02,389
people would like more parking. And I'm just, I know

403
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:10,949
that for some of these sites, um, biking there is

404
00:28:10,949 --> 00:28:17,989
a little bit sketchy, public transportation is difficult. But I'm

405
00:28:18,010 --> 00:28:23,109
wondering about, um, like I don't necessarily want to see

406
00:28:23,149 --> 00:28:26,149
us expand parking because it's expensive. And I don't like

407
00:28:26,189 --> 00:28:31,109
that as a land use. Um, however, um, so I'm,

408
00:28:31,109 --> 00:28:36,309
I'm wondering about alternate modes of getting to trailheads. Thanks.

409
00:28:38,668 --> 00:28:44,085
Okay. Uh, should I answer? Okay. Um, so yes. So

410
00:28:44,085 --> 00:28:46,685
we just to clarify for the study because I didn't

411
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:51,245
mention it. So, uh, we only survey visitors who are

412
00:28:51,285 --> 00:28:54,505
the age of 16 and over for the survey. Um,

413
00:28:54,706 --> 00:28:58,605
so I do have in the report the census data

414
00:28:58,866 --> 00:29:01,085
for the ages. So you can see there is that

415
00:29:01,186 --> 00:29:06,525
gap. You're correct. So for, uh, the 20 to 24,

416
00:29:06,525 --> 00:29:10,365
um, as well as the 16 to 19, our park

417
00:29:10,365 --> 00:29:13,005
visitors, we have an underrepresentation compared to what you see

418
00:29:13,106 --> 00:29:15,565
in terms of Boulder County as a whole. So I

419
00:29:15,565 --> 00:29:18,765
think that is something that, um, we would probably be

420
00:29:19,186 --> 00:29:23,085
working to address, um, I feel like that has been

421
00:29:23,346 --> 00:29:26,045
something that I've seen in previous studies as well that

422
00:29:26,085 --> 00:29:28,845
we've had that gap. So it's one age group that

423
00:29:28,946 --> 00:29:36,905
is not utilizing our parks as much. And then transportation.

424
00:29:36,905 --> 00:29:46,176
I think that's above me. Alternate mode. I might know

425
00:29:46,176 --> 00:29:46,316
about it.

426
00:29:58,617 --> 00:30:01,964
Bevan Critters Resource Division Manager. And Christine, I think that's

427
00:30:02,004 --> 00:30:04,844
a really good question. And I think most people know

428
00:30:04,865 --> 00:30:07,724
we're on our 16th season with the Hessey shuttle, which

429
00:30:07,745 --> 00:30:13,804
is amazing. Um, the drawbacks as well. Last year, we

430
00:30:13,905 --> 00:30:18,124
reported 48, 000 visitors to the Hessey Trailhead via this

431
00:30:18,145 --> 00:30:25,084
shuttle. So we know that parking, um, can restrict visitors.

432
00:30:25,084 --> 00:30:28,444
And it's a matter of equality. Uh, so we really

433
00:30:28,705 --> 00:30:30,764
look into that. But then when we, when we figure

434
00:30:31,105 --> 00:30:33,484
if we can start to add these additional modes of

435
00:30:33,505 --> 00:30:38,684
transportation, it really expands those numbers. So, um, that's a

436
00:30:38,945 --> 00:30:43,004
forest service property that we manage. Uh, and we've completely

437
00:30:43,345 --> 00:30:45,564
exploded probably the number of visitors that would have been

438
00:30:45,604 --> 00:30:49,004
there had we not offered the shuttle. So the real

439
00:30:49,185 --> 00:30:53,244
trade off in, wow, are we overwhelming the Indian peaks

440
00:30:53,505 --> 00:30:57,004
by providing shuttles for visitors? But now we've managed parking

441
00:30:57,044 --> 00:30:59,404
lot better. So we're really looking at that. The other

442
00:30:59,444 --> 00:31:02,044
thing that the county's looking at is how can we

443
00:31:02,145 --> 00:31:06,604
provide, um, transportation that gets closer to trailheads. So it

444
00:31:06,644 --> 00:31:09,004
encourages people to take their bikes on the buses, like

445
00:31:09,004 --> 00:31:10,924
the hop, the skip. And then they can get off

446
00:31:11,185 --> 00:31:13,164
and ride to a trailhead. So the County is looking

447
00:31:13,185 --> 00:31:16,444
at that of, Hey, instead of expanding parking, can we

448
00:31:16,444 --> 00:31:19,484
get people a little bit closer? So, um, hopefully that's

449
00:31:19,505 --> 00:31:24,204
a helpful, helpful answer. Sometimes, um, those alternative modes of

450
00:31:24,225 --> 00:31:28,044
transportations to trailheads have a little bit of a backfire

451
00:31:28,065 --> 00:31:31,004
on us as well. But, um, they've really opened it

452
00:31:31,044 --> 00:31:33,404
up. The other thing I just wanted to mention too,

453
00:31:33,404 --> 00:31:37,784
based on your question about demographics, we've noticed this, um,

454
00:31:38,465 --> 00:31:41,564
lack of participation in the outdoors from that same age

455
00:31:41,564 --> 00:31:45,004
group. What we're finding is that, um, in the research

456
00:31:45,025 --> 00:31:48,124
that when kids are little, their parents will tell them

457
00:31:48,164 --> 00:31:52,364
to go outdoors. But then around that age 13, 14,

458
00:31:52,364 --> 00:31:54,524
they get to make their own decisions. And we're not

459
00:31:54,545 --> 00:31:56,924
seeing them in park. So part of what we did

460
00:31:57,105 --> 00:31:59,884
years ago was start the left hand outdoor challenge program

461
00:32:00,305 --> 00:32:03,084
that was to get teens outdoor. It's been super successful

462
00:32:03,265 --> 00:32:06,604
over the last 15 years or so. Um, but it's

463
00:32:06,625 --> 00:32:09,564
interesting because when they're with the Rangers doing the programs

464
00:32:09,985 --> 00:32:12,604
they're outside, but then what we're finding later on is

465
00:32:12,644 --> 00:32:16,684
they're not selecting to go back outdoors. So just a

466
00:32:16,724 --> 00:32:19,804
really interesting demographic that everybody's seeing and kind of parks

467
00:32:19,905 --> 00:32:23,404
and outdoors. The good news about that is when they're

468
00:32:23,425 --> 00:32:25,964
in their late 20s, early 30s, they start to choose

469
00:32:25,985 --> 00:32:29,644
to go back outdoor. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a

470
00:32:29,684 --> 00:32:32,924
conundrum, but it's, it's kind of nationwide. So hopefully that's

471
00:32:32,945 --> 00:32:39,002
helpful. Vicky, thank you. Vicky Lawrence Post. I quick question

472
00:32:39,023 --> 00:32:40,842
though. Do you have any idea if that's related to

473
00:32:41,023 --> 00:32:45,731
car ownership. Could be. Could be. I'm sure that's, I

474
00:32:45,731 --> 00:32:48,291
can't get to the trailhead. Yeah. Car ownership transportation. We

475
00:32:48,291 --> 00:32:52,891
know those college years too that age group, that demographic,

476
00:32:52,891 --> 00:32:54,971
they're busy. And they don't always choose to go to

477
00:32:55,152 --> 00:32:58,331
trailheads. Even we'd think Hey Boulder County CU's right here.

478
00:32:58,371 --> 00:33:01,131
You could go to any trailhead you'd like. We just

479
00:33:01,131 --> 00:33:03,131
don't see it. So I think there's just a whole

480
00:33:03,312 --> 00:33:06,411
plethora of reasons. Um, but the good news is they

481
00:33:06,451 --> 00:33:13,237
come back. So. Thank you. Great. Um, Christine, we cut

482
00:33:13,237 --> 00:33:16,917
you off. So did you have some more? I just

483
00:33:16,957 --> 00:33:19,557
wanted to make one last, uh, comment. And that is

484
00:33:19,557 --> 00:33:23,157
that I drag my 85 year old mother who has

485
00:33:23,258 --> 00:33:27,397
limited mobility to various sites. And I do appreciate that

486
00:33:27,418 --> 00:33:33,957
you are considering accessibility because she greatly enjoys her, her

487
00:33:33,997 --> 00:33:42,600
access to, um, the open space. Joan, let's pull Zack.

488
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,120
I just wanted to say, I think it's great that

489
00:33:44,221 --> 00:33:49,800
we're doing this survey every five years. And also that

490
00:33:49,981 --> 00:33:52,440
of course it's obvious we need to continue to work

491
00:33:52,461 --> 00:33:59,480
on increasing the number of Latino, um, Hispanic Spanish speaking

492
00:33:59,661 --> 00:34:02,745
people. Which, which we are doing. We need to continue

493
00:34:02,926 --> 00:34:11,337
that. Let's see. I think, um, Ariel. Hi Arielle Barbaria

494
00:34:11,438 --> 00:34:13,577
Gieb. Um, thank you for the presentation. It was great.

495
00:34:13,577 --> 00:34:16,057
I have a question about the e - bike pilot

496
00:34:16,158 --> 00:34:18,838
question. Was it the first year that this question was

497
00:34:18,859 --> 00:34:22,518
in the survey and what prompted having this question in

498
00:34:22,518 --> 00:34:26,128
the survey. Yeah. So it was the first year. So

499
00:34:26,189 --> 00:34:29,288
sometimes we will have questions that we don't plan to

500
00:34:29,309 --> 00:34:32,728
repeat in the survey just to address a specific management

501
00:34:33,309 --> 00:34:36,168
question that we can ask in one question. That could

502
00:34:36,168 --> 00:34:40,488
be included. Uh, and it was prompted by, uh, we

503
00:34:40,509 --> 00:34:43,128
went through the e - bike process to determine that

504
00:34:43,128 --> 00:34:45,928
we wanted to allow e - bikes on the planes,

505
00:34:45,928 --> 00:34:47,768
uh, and they are not allowed in the foothills and

506
00:34:47,808 --> 00:34:50,888
mountain trails. Uh, and we're continuing to see, uh, more

507
00:34:50,989 --> 00:34:54,728
people utilizing e - bikes and more people, uh, as

508
00:34:54,768 --> 00:35:00,248
they're aging, expressing interest in being able to continue to

509
00:35:00,248 --> 00:35:04,568
go biking on trails, uh, and so therefore we were,

510
00:35:04,568 --> 00:35:08,088
we were wondering what our park visitors felt about the

511
00:35:08,269 --> 00:35:12,568
possibility of allowing e - bikes on these other trail

512
00:35:12,608 --> 00:35:16,408
systems just to kind of gauge their interest in that,

513
00:35:16,408 --> 00:35:20,088
um, and so we don't have any current plans at

514
00:35:20,088 --> 00:35:22,728
this point in time, but it was to kind of,

515
00:35:22,728 --> 00:35:26,168
we are hearing from people about accessibility related to e

516
00:35:26,189 --> 00:35:28,888
- bikes on those foothills and mountain trails. And so

517
00:35:28,928 --> 00:35:31,208
we wanted to see what as e - bikes are

518
00:35:31,248 --> 00:35:33,688
more popular, because even then we did, when we did

519
00:35:33,688 --> 00:35:36,648
the first e - bike pilot in 2019, the more

520
00:35:36,648 --> 00:35:39,208
e - bikes out there now than that were then.

521
00:35:39,208 --> 00:35:43,448
So it was to gauge that. Thank you. Um, John

522
00:35:44,669 --> 00:35:49,768
Mike Posack. I know what margin of error is. How

523
00:35:49,789 --> 00:35:51,368
in the world do you measure that you have a

524
00:35:51,549 --> 00:35:54,488
1. 9 percent margin of error when all you're doing

525
00:35:54,589 --> 00:35:59,848
is asking people questions. Yeah. So, uh, I calculate an

526
00:35:59,848 --> 00:36:03,928
estimate for what I would consider the number of visitors

527
00:36:03,968 --> 00:36:06,568
to the parks. So we have an estimate of 1.

528
00:36:06,669 --> 00:36:10,328
8 million visits to the park. And then based on

529
00:36:10,328 --> 00:36:13,848
the responses we get for frequency of visitation, we adjust

530
00:36:13,869 --> 00:36:18,048
that number to get an estimate for the population. So

531
00:36:18,048 --> 00:36:21,048
that would be the number of unique visitors that go

532
00:36:21,048 --> 00:36:22,968
to the park in the year. And then you take

533
00:36:22,989 --> 00:36:27,908
that as your population and put in your sample. And

534
00:36:27,908 --> 00:36:35,694
that's how you calculate the percent error. Carol. And. Carol

535
00:36:35,734 --> 00:36:38,134
Byley Hossag, and I want to say also, I think

536
00:36:38,134 --> 00:36:42,494
it's great that we survey every five years and we

537
00:36:42,494 --> 00:36:47,914
have this continuous information coming in. My question is, how

538
00:36:47,914 --> 00:36:53,294
does, how do you use this information? So, um, do,

539
00:36:53,294 --> 00:36:56,254
does the staff look at it and say, okay, well,

540
00:36:56,294 --> 00:36:57,774
now we're going to move on this or now we're

541
00:36:57,774 --> 00:36:59,614
going to move on that. But is there a protocol

542
00:37:00,595 --> 00:37:06,094
for integrating this information into the promotion? So it happens

543
00:37:06,115 --> 00:37:09,374
a little more organically than that. So I do present,

544
00:37:09,374 --> 00:37:12,394
I present the five year study results to staff, um,

545
00:37:12,755 --> 00:37:15,214
I'll also do that to volunteers. I'll do it to

546
00:37:15,254 --> 00:37:18,174
individual work groups if they ask me to, um, and

547
00:37:18,214 --> 00:37:22,654
then when there's a planning process coming up, um, things

548
00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:25,774
going on with facilities, staff will ask me for the

549
00:37:25,795 --> 00:37:30,254
data about visitors. Um, and it's one, one piece of

550
00:37:30,294 --> 00:37:33,534
the puzzle in terms of our decision making. So it's

551
00:37:33,574 --> 00:37:36,654
not, it's not going to do everything, but it's utilized

552
00:37:36,694 --> 00:37:39,854
in those management planning processes when we're looking at new

553
00:37:39,955 --> 00:37:43,694
trailheads, uh, when we were looking at East Boulder Creek,

554
00:37:43,694 --> 00:37:45,774
we're looking at what do people want in parks? What

555
00:37:45,774 --> 00:37:49,454
are these improvements that we can provide? So, uh, so

556
00:37:49,494 --> 00:37:51,614
that's really how it's used is it's kind of in

557
00:37:51,654 --> 00:37:55,534
the planning processes as we're making improvements, uh, in our

558
00:37:55,715 --> 00:37:59,319
parks staffer utilizing the data for that. So, so it's

559
00:37:59,319 --> 00:38:05,399
not an event. It's basically, um, a resource can be

560
00:38:05,439 --> 00:38:08,679
called upon at appropriate times. Okay. Great. That makes sense.

561
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:16,130
Thank you. Any other post sac members. Okay. Uh, Jeff

562
00:38:16,231 --> 00:38:25,533
Oddy. Yeah. Thanks. Um, my, my question is, uh,

563
00:38:26,054 --> 00:38:29,313
did you, I guess when you think about how you're

564
00:38:29,334 --> 00:38:32,513
putting together this survey and what sort of information, what

565
00:38:32,513 --> 00:38:35,553
questions you're going to ask and what information you're going

566
00:38:35,553 --> 00:38:39,633
to capture. Are you having discussions around like, you know,

567
00:38:39,974 --> 00:38:44,033
specific data points that you want to gather information on?

568
00:38:44,033 --> 00:38:45,633
And if so, like what were a few of the

569
00:38:45,734 --> 00:38:48,113
ones that you were looking for information on this year.

570
00:38:50,874 --> 00:38:53,253
Yeah. That's a great question. So it's a big process

571
00:38:53,594 --> 00:38:57,253
to determine what questions should be included in the survey.

572
00:38:57,253 --> 00:39:00,453
So it usually starts in the winter and we have

573
00:39:00,474 --> 00:39:03,653
multiple meetings with staff to kind of talk through that

574
00:39:04,074 --> 00:39:08,373
and make those decisions. Uh, one, one point is that

575
00:39:08,394 --> 00:39:12,693
we are trying when we are able to remain consistent,

576
00:39:12,693 --> 00:39:14,693
uh, with some of the questions that we've asked over

577
00:39:14,714 --> 00:39:18,373
time. So we can continue to have that trend data.

578
00:39:18,373 --> 00:39:21,333
So some of the demographic questions, some of the visitation

579
00:39:21,354 --> 00:39:24,533
pattern questions, conflict and crowding. We're trying to keep those

580
00:39:24,634 --> 00:39:27,573
as consistent as possible so we can see changes over

581
00:39:27,594 --> 00:39:32,613
time. So those questions, we will only adjust or change.

582
00:39:32,613 --> 00:39:35,093
Uh, if we feel like there's a problem in, in

583
00:39:35,093 --> 00:39:37,253
the way that question is worded or we're not getting

584
00:39:37,274 --> 00:39:42,533
the data that we feel like is useful, uh, otherwise,

585
00:39:42,533 --> 00:39:46,293
uh, we will discuss the possibility of these additional questions

586
00:39:46,954 --> 00:39:49,893
like the information, um, that was one that we added

587
00:39:50,474 --> 00:39:52,593
as well as the e - bike pilot based off

588
00:39:52,593 --> 00:39:57,333
of the needs that leadership sees, uh, for this upcoming

589
00:39:57,434 --> 00:40:01,333
year. So we do try to limit it because it's

590
00:40:01,594 --> 00:40:05,093
a long survey already. Um, it's a very long survey.

591
00:40:05,093 --> 00:40:07,333
So we're not trying to add too many extra different

592
00:40:07,594 --> 00:40:09,653
questions. So it has to be a question that can

593
00:40:09,653 --> 00:40:13,253
be asked across all parks. Um, that's relevant to all

594
00:40:13,293 --> 00:40:16,753
visitors across all parks. So that does limit things. Uh,

595
00:40:16,753 --> 00:40:20,533
so it is a big lengthy process, um, and we're

596
00:40:20,533 --> 00:40:23,173
kind of trying to manage a lot of different things.

597
00:40:23,173 --> 00:40:26,533
Um, but really we're focused on those four specific questions

598
00:40:26,554 --> 00:40:31,813
for this study. So we want demographic information, visitation patterns,

599
00:40:31,813 --> 00:40:35,653
um, conflicting crowding. And then any sort of other questions

600
00:40:35,674 --> 00:40:38,933
are going to fall in those, uh, perceptions or management

601
00:40:38,973 --> 00:40:47,244
issues. Awesome. Thank you. Anything Mark Jeff. No, nothing else

602
00:40:47,345 --> 00:40:51,244
from me. Thanks for asking. Okay. Thank you. Um, excuse

603
00:40:51,284 --> 00:40:55,244
me. Um, so, uh, Trey Spaker Posack. I've got a

604
00:40:55,244 --> 00:40:59,644
few, um, questions and comments. Michelle, and first of all,

605
00:40:59,825 --> 00:41:03,804
um, two weeks ago, my daughter was visiting from Alaska.

606
00:41:03,804 --> 00:41:06,444
She's no longer a teen, of course. But, um, uh,

607
00:41:06,625 --> 00:41:08,524
she wanted to go for a hike. So he went

608
00:41:08,564 --> 00:41:13,164
to annew white. And she just loved that. I'm going

609
00:41:13,164 --> 00:41:19,404
to concentrate on conflict because, uh, that's going to come

610
00:41:19,404 --> 00:41:25,564
up in, uh, Bevins, uh, presentation on the alternate use

611
00:41:25,745 --> 00:41:35,434
days. And what I did was that, um, you know,

612
00:41:35,434 --> 00:41:40,314
I realized that, um, conflict, um, as you described it

613
00:41:40,314 --> 00:41:44,314
on page 19 of your report is not limited to

614
00:41:44,354 --> 00:41:49,494
bikes. And so therefore restricting bikes to certain dates, um,

615
00:41:50,095 --> 00:41:55,754
in the pilot, uh, may reduce, but it won't eliminate

616
00:41:56,175 --> 00:42:00,954
conflict. And so, um, what I did was that I

617
00:42:00,975 --> 00:42:05,434
looked at your appendix E and I tried to break

618
00:42:05,455 --> 00:42:10,954
down the number of, um, you know, tally conflict by

619
00:42:10,994 --> 00:42:17,114
what I'm calling offender, you know, who was named or,

620
00:42:17,114 --> 00:42:19,114
you know, what group was named as the cause of

621
00:42:19,114 --> 00:42:22,074
the conflict. And, you know, please let me know if

622
00:42:22,114 --> 00:42:27,274
I miss using your data here, um, but, um, what

623
00:42:27,375 --> 00:42:35,434
I did was identified, um, offenders as bikes, dogs, horses

624
00:42:36,095 --> 00:42:39,594
and runners. And there were quite a few that I'm

625
00:42:39,634 --> 00:42:42,874
calling on specified because somebody would say, you know, there's

626
00:42:42,874 --> 00:42:45,834
trash on the trail or, uh, you know, there were

627
00:42:45,834 --> 00:42:47,994
people standing in the middle of the trail, but not

628
00:42:48,335 --> 00:42:51,514
identifying who left the trash or who was blocking the

629
00:42:51,535 --> 00:43:00,294
trail. And so what I found that, um, listing, uh,

630
00:43:00,735 --> 00:43:05,754
offenders in numerical order, uh, bikes were responsible for 1.

631
00:43:05,935 --> 00:43:11,674
5 to percent dogs 0. 47 percent horses 0. 27

632
00:43:11,855 --> 00:43:20,474
percent and runners 0. 04 percent. And so, um, in

633
00:43:20,495 --> 00:43:22,314
my numbers, I think are going to be slightly different

634
00:43:22,495 --> 00:43:25,674
than yours because I, you know, I was coding and,

635
00:43:25,674 --> 00:43:28,454
um, was doing this while I was, uh, I was

636
00:43:28,454 --> 00:43:31,354
sitting in the hotel and crest to beate last week.

637
00:43:31,354 --> 00:43:37,114
So, um, but, um, so it looks like, um, also

638
00:43:37,135 --> 00:43:44,154
from your data, uh, but they're, you know, responsible for

639
00:43:44,175 --> 00:43:46,474
about 1. 5 percent of the

640
00:43:46,655 --> 00:43:56,474
conflict. And so, uh, you know,

641
00:43:56,495 --> 00:43:59,754
to me that suggests, you know, a Pareto - like

642
00:43:59,855 --> 00:44:03,994
problem where if you dress the top source or the

643
00:44:04,034 --> 00:44:08,154
top few sources of conflicts will give you greatest benefit

644
00:44:08,175 --> 00:44:16,314
for reducing conflict. So, um, that's what I found. And,

645
00:44:16,314 --> 00:44:18,854
you know, would be happy to share that with, uh,

646
00:44:19,775 --> 00:44:22,714
post - Act members with staff, you know, if I

647
00:44:22,754 --> 00:44:25,114
can figure out how to, how to get that sent

648
00:44:25,114 --> 00:44:29,194
out, um, you know, in the proper, um, post -

649
00:44:29,194 --> 00:44:35,114
act form. Any other questions? Vicky. Vicky Lawrence Pozak. Trisk,

650
00:44:35,114 --> 00:44:38,394
let me ask you a question. So your percentage obviously

651
00:44:38,495 --> 00:44:40,794
don't end up to a hundred percent. So what I'm

652
00:44:40,834 --> 00:44:43,754
curious about is can you tell us what the percentage

653
00:44:44,255 --> 00:44:48,554
of the conflicts were caused by bikes or horses, like

654
00:44:48,554 --> 00:44:50,474
out of a hundred, so we can get a sense

655
00:44:50,495 --> 00:44:53,879
of. But I guess it needs to be in comparison

656
00:44:54,140 --> 00:44:57,559
to how many of those people are there. It gets

657
00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:00,199
to be a complex problem. Yeah. And, um, you know,

658
00:45:00,220 --> 00:45:04,119
I was looking at conflict as a percentage of total

659
00:45:04,620 --> 00:45:10,199
respondents as opposed to a percentage of those who reported

660
00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:17,319
conflict. Oh, okay. And so, um, you know, it's, you

661
00:45:17,319 --> 00:45:20,119
know, it's, you know, bikes, you know, again, 1. 5

662
00:45:20,220 --> 00:45:28,646
percent very, very low. That's higher than dogs, but if

663
00:45:28,686 --> 00:45:32,886
you add, you know, dogs plus horses, you know, that's

664
00:45:32,907 --> 00:45:37,286
close to half a percent. And so, you know, it's,

665
00:45:37,286 --> 00:45:40,646
it's non - human sources of conflict, you know, I

666
00:45:40,646 --> 00:45:45,346
guess. But anyway, just Ariel? Yes, question for you. But

667
00:45:45,346 --> 00:45:48,326
did you analyze the bike on bike crime or just

668
00:45:49,227 --> 00:45:53,286
crime conflict, sorry, bike on bike conflict? Or was it

669
00:45:53,326 --> 00:45:55,526
just like the reported source of conflict and not who

670
00:45:55,627 --> 00:45:58,166
was receiving it? I'll just report it source because I

671
00:45:58,206 --> 00:46:03,286
did not have access to the data in table E.

672
00:46:03,286 --> 00:46:10,141
Everything I tallied was, uh, appendixy. Yeah. Okay. Lauren. Yeah.

673
00:46:10,162 --> 00:46:13,282
Lauren Kelso. I want to zoom out just a little

674
00:46:13,282 --> 00:46:16,242
bit and I'm curious what you think about the overall

675
00:46:16,343 --> 00:46:21,343
conflict number four percent. I work at a highly public

676
00:46:21,383 --> 00:46:24,783
setting four percent for conflict feels really good. I'm wondering

677
00:46:24,964 --> 00:46:27,903
like when you guys compare that to other parks or

678
00:46:27,924 --> 00:46:33,023
other spaces that are seeing a similar amount of people,

679
00:46:33,023 --> 00:46:35,803
um, interacting with each other is that, how do you

680
00:46:35,803 --> 00:46:39,104
guys feel about the. Yeah, just in general four percent

681
00:46:39,125 --> 00:46:42,704
out of all your people experiencing conflict for the human

682
00:46:42,805 --> 00:46:48,144
race seems pretty good to me. Yeah. So, you know,

683
00:46:48,144 --> 00:46:52,384
when people are going to parks, it's a recreational experience.

684
00:46:52,384 --> 00:46:56,544
So they're kind of expecting to have a positive experience.

685
00:46:56,544 --> 00:46:58,704
Um, so I think in general, maybe they're in a

686
00:46:58,704 --> 00:47:00,624
good mood because they're doing something that they want to

687
00:47:00,624 --> 00:47:03,824
do. They're out in nature. Um, we do have a

688
00:47:03,845 --> 00:47:08,604
regional round table, um, where we get together with, um,

689
00:47:08,725 --> 00:47:12,384
different agencies who are doing visitor studies, uh, and we,

690
00:47:12,405 --> 00:47:15,904
we ask the questions about conflict a little differently across

691
00:47:16,085 --> 00:47:19,424
our different agency. So it's hard to directly compare. That's

692
00:47:19,424 --> 00:47:22,604
something we've talked about is, is trying to have, um,

693
00:47:22,885 --> 00:47:26,464
maybe some questions that we ask across agency so that

694
00:47:26,464 --> 00:47:30,384
we can actually kind of compare how we stand compared

695
00:47:30,384 --> 00:47:32,984
to other agencies along the front range in terms of

696
00:47:33,125 --> 00:47:38,224
conflict. Um, so I, I feel like it's interesting because

697
00:47:38,725 --> 00:47:42,064
I always thought that our conflict numbers would go up

698
00:47:42,325 --> 00:47:45,184
as our parks got even busier in 2021 was a

699
00:47:45,184 --> 00:47:48,944
very, very busy year. Uh, and in fact, it still

700
00:47:48,984 --> 00:47:52,144
wasn't as high a number as I thought it was.

701
00:47:52,144 --> 00:47:55,424
Um, so overall I would say that, yeah, conflict is

702
00:47:55,464 --> 00:47:58,944
very low. Um, it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's

703
00:47:58,944 --> 00:48:01,984
happening in our parks. It is a concern. Um, we

704
00:48:02,165 --> 00:48:05,824
are constantly doing education and outreach to try to reduce

705
00:48:06,085 --> 00:48:10,384
conflict in parks relating to yielding and sharing the trail.

706
00:48:10,384 --> 00:48:15,184
Um, as well as some conflicts from, um, people feeling

707
00:48:15,184 --> 00:48:19,024
crowded, um, or from people not following the rules and

708
00:48:19,045 --> 00:48:22,224
leaving their dog poop bag, things like that. Um, so

709
00:48:22,405 --> 00:48:24,904
I would say that Parks stuff are very focused on

710
00:48:24,965 --> 00:48:28,144
conflict and trained to reduce it. Um, but I don't

711
00:48:28,165 --> 00:48:32,304
have good. It's hard, it's difficult to compare across agencies,

712
00:48:32,304 --> 00:48:35,104
um, because we're all, we're asking questions differently. We're asking

713
00:48:35,144 --> 00:48:41,744
about interpersonal conflict in our question specifically. Um, so yeah.

714
00:48:41,765 --> 00:48:44,584
Thanks. That's super helpful. Yeah. I think it helped, it

715
00:48:44,584 --> 00:48:47,104
would help probably with that negativity biased piece of just

716
00:48:47,144 --> 00:48:50,304
like trying to figure out how much of a comparative

717
00:48:50,325 --> 00:48:54,144
problem it is. Yeah. Thanks. Anybody else in the room.

718
00:48:55,647 --> 00:49:04,152
Jeff, uh, anything more. Sorry. It took me a sec

719
00:49:04,192 --> 00:49:06,632
to get off mute. Nothing else from me, Trace. Thanks

720
00:49:06,632 --> 00:49:10,312
for asking. Okay. Thank you. Well then, um, looks like

721
00:49:11,053 --> 00:49:14,872
we are done with your presentation. Again, thank you very

722
00:49:14,912 --> 00:49:24,688
much, Michelle and Tori. I'm going to stay. Here.

723
00:49:26,415 --> 00:49:27,719
Do you want. Me to win? Yeah.

724
00:49:57,928 --> 00:50:01,667
Hey, Bevin, it's all yours. Thanks, Trace. Good evening. Pose

725
00:50:01,667 --> 00:50:03,667
act just first of all, thank you all for being

726
00:50:03,667 --> 00:50:07,727
here. I think, um, we've been going through a lot

727
00:50:07,727 --> 00:50:10,547
of parks, a lot of, um, opinions about the things

728
00:50:10,728 --> 00:50:13,107
we're doing. And I think it's really nice that we

729
00:50:13,288 --> 00:50:16,627
get to come here before you, um, just tell our

730
00:50:16,627 --> 00:50:19,667
story and kind of what, what we're experiencing, what we're

731
00:50:19,667 --> 00:50:21,507
hearing from visitors. So thank you all for being here

732
00:50:21,768 --> 00:50:25,987
and listening and asking such great questions. Um, first, before

733
00:50:25,987 --> 00:50:28,627
I get going, this is Pride Month. So I left

734
00:50:28,667 --> 00:50:33,667
some stickers on everybody's chairs there. The first one is

735
00:50:33,707 --> 00:50:35,887
our Pride Badge. So the Ranger, some of us are

736
00:50:35,887 --> 00:50:38,787
wearing the pride badge for the month of June just

737
00:50:38,827 --> 00:50:41,507
to show how inclusive and open and welcoming our parks

738
00:50:41,507 --> 00:50:43,587
are. And then the other one is a little Ranger

739
00:50:43,688 --> 00:50:46,787
hat. Um, our friends at the National Park Service were

740
00:50:46,787 --> 00:50:49,427
not allowed to participate in pride events the last two

741
00:50:49,467 --> 00:50:53,027
years in their community. So, um, some Rangers got together

742
00:50:53,128 --> 00:50:56,787
and said, well, we'll show our, our thanks to them

743
00:50:56,888 --> 00:51:00,307
and create stickers for them without the national park service

744
00:51:00,328 --> 00:51:04,127
logo on it. So that's what that represents. So, um,

745
00:51:04,488 --> 00:51:08,307
just good stuff going on out there. Uh, tonight, Jarrett

746
00:51:08,347 --> 00:51:12,147
asked me to present on the alternative use survey results

747
00:51:12,168 --> 00:51:14,667
for our, the pilot program. So I just want to

748
00:51:14,667 --> 00:51:18,307
say, uh, this is Michelle's work. So, um, I'm lucky

749
00:51:18,328 --> 00:51:22,847
enough to present what Michelle put together, the survey, the

750
00:51:23,128 --> 00:51:26,147
data crunching the results. That's all her work. Um, and

751
00:51:26,248 --> 00:51:28,387
then a group of us that work together with Jared

752
00:51:28,408 --> 00:51:30,867
at Parks to throw all this together and get the

753
00:51:31,048 --> 00:51:34,467
pilot thing, the proposals going. So, um, as much as

754
00:51:34,488 --> 00:51:36,707
I would love to take credit for this, really it's

755
00:51:36,707 --> 00:51:40,467
Michelle and she'll answer the hard questions. Um, if you

756
00:51:40,467 --> 00:51:43,107
have difficult questions for me, just remember I do have

757
00:51:43,147 --> 00:51:47,667
a taser. So, uh, let's, let's take it easy tonight.

758
00:51:47,667 --> 00:51:49,987
And, uh, we'll go through these survey findings. This is

759
00:51:50,027 --> 00:51:52,467
just for us to show you what we heard from

760
00:51:52,648 --> 00:51:57,327
the public through this survey. So I'll start with, um,

761
00:51:57,448 --> 00:52:00,067
the purpose just to show you what we, what we

762
00:52:00,067 --> 00:52:03,427
heard from community feedback. Um, we will be meeting with

763
00:52:03,528 --> 00:52:06,307
the County Commissioners on the 30th of June to go

764
00:52:06,307 --> 00:52:09,587
through, uh, these results and talk with them about next

765
00:52:09,627 --> 00:52:11,827
steps and where they would like us to go with

766
00:52:11,827 --> 00:52:13,907
the pilot program and to let them know what we

767
00:52:13,947 --> 00:52:16,787
heard from the community. And then again, tonight, this is

768
00:52:16,827 --> 00:52:20,067
just an action only. This is no actions required. This

769
00:52:20,067 --> 00:52:24,962
is just information only. Just a little bit of background.

770
00:52:24,962 --> 00:52:27,442
We've heard a lot from Michelle. So actually Michelle's presentation

771
00:52:27,623 --> 00:52:31,282
is excellent because it really has laid out the background.

772
00:52:31,282 --> 00:52:34,382
And what our visitors overall think about the parks, um,

773
00:52:34,583 --> 00:52:38,402
staff was asked to explore alternatives for community informed alternative

774
00:52:38,663 --> 00:52:42,642
use pilot program on existing trails. So we were asked

775
00:52:42,682 --> 00:52:46,082
to look at existing trails, not new trails, not new

776
00:52:46,103 --> 00:52:50,482
management plans, nothing like that. Just what's, what's existing within

777
00:52:50,522 --> 00:52:53,602
our parks now. And then we used a survey developed

778
00:52:53,602 --> 00:52:55,842
by Michelle and then open houses to put all the

779
00:52:56,183 --> 00:53:00,082
community input together. What I'm showing you tonight is just

780
00:53:00,263 --> 00:53:03,682
the survey results. The open house, um, information that we

781
00:53:03,703 --> 00:53:07,042
gathered was abundant. It was great. Um, and it's just

782
00:53:07,063 --> 00:53:09,042
going to take us a long time to, to get

783
00:53:09,063 --> 00:53:11,682
all that put together. So tonight we'll just be the

784
00:53:11,783 --> 00:53:20,594
survey results. So here's the amazing participation that we had.

785
00:53:20,594 --> 00:53:25,474
So we had 7, 522 responses. Um, the survey was

786
00:53:25,975 --> 00:53:28,354
self - selected. So I want to make this very

787
00:53:28,375 --> 00:53:31,454
clear. This is a different type of survey. So, uh,

788
00:53:31,454 --> 00:53:33,874
we've heard a lot of people say, well, this isn't,

789
00:53:33,874 --> 00:53:37,394
you know, statistically relevant. It's not accurate. Well, they're correct

790
00:53:37,735 --> 00:53:41,054
because we, we did not go out and, you know,

791
00:53:41,895 --> 00:53:45,394
survey entire community randomly. We put the information out there

792
00:53:45,575 --> 00:53:48,114
and said, Hey, if you'd like to take our survey,

793
00:53:48,114 --> 00:53:51,154
please do that. So the information that we were provided

794
00:53:51,415 --> 00:53:54,114
is amazing. We're listening to all of it. We're taking

795
00:53:54,215 --> 00:53:57,554
it all in. It's all relevant. It's the experiences people

796
00:53:57,735 --> 00:54:01,314
have in our parks. Is it statistically valid? No, we're

797
00:54:01,314 --> 00:54:03,234
not going to crunch these numbers as if it were

798
00:54:04,215 --> 00:54:07,634
Vicky. Blood and fix. Um, Vicky Lawrence pose that quick

799
00:54:07,674 --> 00:54:11,800
question though. Did you and does the survey ask. What

800
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,480
kind of use the person the respondent does on the

801
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,160
park? Like, are they a bike or they hike? Okay.

802
00:54:17,341 --> 00:54:19,620
Absolutely. And I'll get to that. So, um, yeah. And

803
00:54:19,620 --> 00:54:22,040
I just want to make that very clear that all

804
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,760
of these results, every response we received is valid. It's

805
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,840
important to us. We're glad to hear it. But can

806
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,080
we make big generalizations about entire community? No, we can't

807
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:37,000
say that every biker thinks this. Every hiker thinks this.

808
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,720
Um, but the responses are what we received and they're

809
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,965
all valid in and of themselves. So. It's some of

810
00:54:45,005 --> 00:54:47,845
these questions are going to be very similar to what

811
00:54:47,946 --> 00:54:51,445
we've seen from Michelle's work previously. But again, we asked

812
00:54:51,445 --> 00:55:00,045
about frequency of visit. Boulder County Parks and OpenSpace. So

813
00:55:00,186 --> 00:55:03,525
these are people that are highly engaged with our parks.

814
00:55:03,525 --> 00:55:06,325
They're visiting often. Many actually said they visit more than

815
00:55:07,146 --> 00:55:09,685
one time in a week. So, um, these are people

816
00:55:09,725 --> 00:55:15,501
that know our parks very well. Here's the next is

817
00:55:15,602 --> 00:55:18,221
the activities of the respondents. And I think Vicky, this

818
00:55:18,221 --> 00:55:20,861
will get to your question. Um, we saw very strong

819
00:55:20,882 --> 00:55:23,981
participation from bikers as a whole. So many, many people

820
00:55:24,242 --> 00:55:31,581
reported that they were bikers. Um, We also saw high

821
00:55:31,581 --> 00:55:36,541
levels of people that are hiking, multiactivity participation, dog walking

822
00:55:36,642 --> 00:55:39,661
wildlife viewing. It's actually very similar to the results that

823
00:55:39,922 --> 00:55:43,061
Michelle shared with you in the five year study. So

824
00:55:43,061 --> 00:55:45,421
if we look at this, you'll see that 55 percent

825
00:55:45,421 --> 00:55:51,981
of the respondents reported be their primary activity being biking,

826
00:55:51,981 --> 00:55:56,941
walking, running, bringing a dog and on from there. Christine

827
00:55:57,522 --> 00:56:00,701
actually, Christine Johnson Posack, I think that something that I

828
00:56:00,722 --> 00:56:02,861
noticed when I was preparing for the meaning is that

829
00:56:02,882 --> 00:56:08,433
those numbers are reversed. On roughly on Michelle's survey, that

830
00:56:08,433 --> 00:56:14,673
it was, um, the percentage for bike and hike walk.

831
00:56:14,854 --> 00:56:17,713
I reversed. Yeah. And that, and that, that would go

832
00:56:17,713 --> 00:56:20,513
with who, who we know reported as biking as their

833
00:56:20,513 --> 00:56:22,753
primary activity. Let me, let me go to this next

834
00:56:22,854 --> 00:56:25,393
slide. So here we said, Hey, tell us about all

835
00:56:25,433 --> 00:56:28,333
the activities you do on Parks and Open Space. And

836
00:56:28,333 --> 00:56:32,273
there you'll see people reported a high likelihood of hiking

837
00:56:32,294 --> 00:56:36,513
or walking, biking, running's very high, bringing a dog, viewing

838
00:56:36,553 --> 00:56:40,433
wildlife. So those still are also the very high activity.

839
00:56:40,433 --> 00:56:43,153
So it's, it didn't surprise us that most of the

840
00:56:43,334 --> 00:56:45,953
primary activity was from bikers because we know that's who

841
00:56:46,134 --> 00:56:50,753
responded to the survey. So make sense. Um, but just,

842
00:56:50,753 --> 00:56:54,673
this is interesting to show that not all visitors or

843
00:56:54,673 --> 00:56:57,473
most visitors to open space do more than one thing.

844
00:56:57,473 --> 00:56:59,953
Um, they may hike one day. They may bike one

845
00:56:59,993 --> 00:57:02,513
day. One day they'll take the dogs out. Maybe another

846
00:57:02,513 --> 00:57:04,833
time they just want to go see wildlife. So we

847
00:57:04,873 --> 00:57:07,313
know that people are doing more than one activity on

848
00:57:07,313 --> 00:57:13,060
our parks. We also saw a real range of perspectives

849
00:57:13,561 --> 00:57:17,700
as we thought we would. Responses really reflect that the,

850
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:20,260
the views of those that took the survey are very

851
00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:24,180
engaged with parks in open space. Um, many respondents described

852
00:57:24,201 --> 00:57:28,740
some concerns or reservations about alternate use. And then there

853
00:57:28,780 --> 00:57:32,020
were others that were supportive and had some conditional interest

854
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:37,590
in that. So here is what we asked in general.

855
00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:41,110
Please indicate your level of support or opposition for an

856
00:57:41,110 --> 00:57:44,530
alternating use pilot on select parks and open space. And

857
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:53,270
you can see overwhelmingly opposed an alternating use pilot program.

858
00:57:53,270 --> 00:58:00,193
While 18 percent support are strongly supported. And then this

859
00:58:00,193 --> 00:58:03,073
is a little breakdown. Support or opposition for the pilot

860
00:58:03,113 --> 00:58:07,313
by the primary activity reported. So of those that reported

861
00:58:07,414 --> 00:58:14,673
that their primary activity was biking or walking 58 percent

862
00:58:14,713 --> 00:58:20,593
opposed that run were at 77 percent opposition bringing a

863
00:58:20,593 --> 00:58:24,033
dog was 57 percent. So again, this is the information

864
00:58:24,534 --> 00:58:30,233
provided by those that responded. And I think. Speaks to,

865
00:58:30,233 --> 00:58:32,873
um, kind of what we expected out of seeing what

866
00:58:32,894 --> 00:58:36,473
those primary activities were. So here this, this next question

867
00:58:36,974 --> 00:58:40,553
were some, some open - ended responses that we received.

868
00:58:40,553 --> 00:58:43,593
Um, when we asked about that opposition or support of

869
00:58:43,694 --> 00:58:48,153
an alternating use pilot program, um, and I'll read some

870
00:58:48,153 --> 00:58:50,393
of these. I only have certain days that I can

871
00:58:50,433 --> 00:58:54,953
get outside. Limits like this make it harder. Designated days

872
00:58:54,993 --> 00:58:58,527
could reduce stress for slower users. Education may be more

873
00:58:58,628 --> 00:59:02,767
effective than limits. Any pilot should be clearly communicated and

874
00:59:02,807 --> 00:59:05,087
fair. So those were some of the comments. And we

875
00:59:05,087 --> 00:59:08,287
heard those often. We actually have 900 pages of open

876
00:59:08,308 --> 00:59:11,787
- ended comments that we are still sifting through. Um,

877
00:59:12,148 --> 00:59:15,087
Michelle and the education and outreach team have gone through

878
00:59:15,508 --> 00:59:20,127
every one of them. They've redacted names. They've redacted any

879
00:59:20,167 --> 00:59:23,727
kind of personal attacks or curse words. And we have

880
00:59:23,748 --> 00:59:27,567
all those now. Um, I think it's finished. Yeah. So

881
00:59:27,588 --> 00:59:31,247
it's finished, but it's 900 pages. So, um, lots and

882
00:59:31,268 --> 00:59:37,390
lots of comments on there. And then we went through

883
00:59:37,571 --> 00:59:42,350
those comments and we, we had to use AI because

884
00:59:42,350 --> 00:59:45,710
the time frame was so short. Normally we would categorize

885
00:59:45,731 --> 00:59:48,910
the comments and pick out themes and try to move

886
00:59:49,091 --> 00:59:52,350
different comments into different themes. Because of the time frame

887
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:54,910
for this, we actually used AI to do that for

888
00:59:54,910 --> 00:59:58,270
us. We use Copilot. And here's some of the kind

889
00:59:58,310 --> 01:00:02,510
of themes that we saw in the comments, um, this

890
01:00:02,611 --> 01:00:10,314
would restrict biker access. Reduces trail availability. Inconvenient scheduling, user

891
01:00:10,354 --> 01:00:14,954
conflict, improve safety, supports pilot as a test. Um, people

892
01:00:15,215 --> 01:00:18,954
wanted us to build more trails. Uh, education on etiquette.

893
01:00:19,593 --> 01:00:23,572
There's no problem to solve. Um, and so on and

894
01:00:23,612 --> 01:00:26,372
so on. So using AI, those are the major themes

895
01:00:26,372 --> 01:00:32,186
we saw in those open - ended comments. And then

896
01:00:32,226 --> 01:00:34,586
we asked the question of if we, if we implement

897
01:00:34,767 --> 01:00:38,426
this pilot program, where would you like to see it?

898
01:00:38,426 --> 01:00:42,486
Uh, the number one response was higher valley ranch. And

899
01:00:42,486 --> 01:00:44,746
people reported that if we did do this pilot, they

900
01:00:44,767 --> 01:00:48,906
would suggest what PD or picture rock trails. Second was

901
01:00:49,247 --> 01:00:52,346
Hall Ranch with the bitter brush trail. Uh, third was

902
01:00:52,527 --> 01:00:56,746
Walker Ranch with the walker ranch loop. And then fourth

903
01:00:56,746 --> 01:01:01,925
was Pitasso with the canyon and Benjamin loops. I'm sorry.

904
01:01:01,925 --> 01:01:05,005
I thought Batasso already had, I'm sorry, Lauren Kelso. I

905
01:01:05,005 --> 01:01:08,245
thought potasso already had alternating use. It does. And Lauren,

906
01:01:08,245 --> 01:01:10,785
that was one really interesting thing that we saw. And

907
01:01:10,785 --> 01:01:13,445
I'll show it a little later in the presentation too,

908
01:01:13,445 --> 01:01:18,405
um, that kind of looking at Batasso as one place

909
01:01:18,586 --> 01:01:22,645
had already had it. And then I guess reimagining that,

910
01:01:22,645 --> 01:01:24,405
or I think what really came of that was that

911
01:01:24,986 --> 01:01:27,845
the idea that since we had hiking only days that

912
01:01:27,845 --> 01:01:31,445
we should have biking only days at Potasso. So if

913
01:01:31,485 --> 01:01:34,725
we drilled down, that's really what staff found in those

914
01:01:34,906 --> 01:01:41,893
comments. And this just shows that the pilot location preferences,

915
01:01:41,893 --> 01:01:47,973
uh, we don't want a pilot program. So and then

916
01:01:50,234 --> 01:01:53,493
of those that do, uh, of those that responded Batasso

917
01:01:53,533 --> 01:02:00,853
came up, um, hiking only days. Let's have biking only

918
01:02:00,893 --> 01:02:04,213
days. Um, and then other than higher valley ranch, Walker

919
01:02:04,253 --> 01:02:10,929
Ranch and home ranch. And then we asked about scheduling

920
01:02:11,110 --> 01:02:15,009
consideration. So if we do an alternative use, pilot program,

921
01:02:15,009 --> 01:02:18,369
tell us about how we might schedule that. Um, again,

922
01:02:18,369 --> 01:02:22,369
most respondents said, don't have a pilot program. Um, among

923
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:25,729
those that supported it, said fix days were preferred because

924
01:02:25,729 --> 01:02:27,249
they could schedule for it. So if they knew that

925
01:02:27,350 --> 01:02:30,529
it was Thursday or Wednesday, they knew they could, they

926
01:02:30,529 --> 01:02:33,409
could make a schedule for being outdoors based on that.

927
01:02:33,409 --> 01:02:35,649
And then there was a lot of concerns about scheduling

928
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:39,489
complexity inequality. Um, and I think a lot of those

929
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:44,849
came from other counties that have, um, alternating weekend days,

930
01:02:44,849 --> 01:02:48,369
odd and even days. And so the concerns about, Hey,

931
01:02:48,369 --> 01:02:54,604
don't make it too complex for people to understand. And

932
01:02:54,644 --> 01:02:56,844
this is just a graph that kind of shows that

933
01:02:57,345 --> 01:03:00,444
50 percent of respondents noted that specific days for multi

934
01:03:00,545 --> 01:03:04,924
- use trails were somewhat or very important.

935
01:03:10,305 --> 01:03:15,724
Andoted that specific days for bikers with somewhat or very

936
01:03:15,764 --> 01:03:23,372
important. And then again, we said, please select your preferred

937
01:03:23,473 --> 01:03:28,332
alternative use scheduling for allowing separate days for different activities.

938
01:03:28,332 --> 01:03:31,452
Again, 70 percent of the respondents that we don't even

939
01:03:31,473 --> 01:03:41,272
want this. So that was their response. Um, favorable, um,

940
01:03:44,833 --> 01:03:46,652
I think that comes from a lot of users that

941
01:03:46,673 --> 01:03:49,372
go to Jefferson County where that's been in place for

942
01:03:49,412 --> 01:03:53,292
a while. And then four percent reported other things. And

943
01:03:53,292 --> 01:03:56,172
then we asked about the same kind of question using

944
01:03:56,353 --> 01:03:59,052
Copilot and what themes in those open - ended comments

945
01:03:59,793 --> 01:04:05,112
could we see from this. The themes were categorized. And

946
01:04:05,112 --> 01:04:08,572
here's what we found, scheduling an accessibility concern. So people

947
01:04:08,612 --> 01:04:11,772
really have concerns about, Hey, if I, if I have

948
01:04:11,812 --> 01:04:13,372
a day free from work and I want to go

949
01:04:13,372 --> 01:04:16,732
out, I don't have to worry about, you know, this

950
01:04:16,753 --> 01:04:20,412
trail being open or not to this use. People find

951
01:04:20,433 --> 01:04:24,492
it confusing or difficult to plan for. People said, Hey,

952
01:04:24,532 --> 01:04:27,612
just build more trails or improve the trail design that

953
01:04:27,652 --> 01:04:31,932
we have. Um, fairness and equity continue to come up,

954
01:04:31,932 --> 01:04:37,192
limiting biking access. And again, you know, education enforcement, all

955
01:04:37,192 --> 01:04:39,692
those things were also themes that we found as we

956
01:04:39,692 --> 01:04:44,895
went through the open - ended questions. Christine Johnson Posack,

957
01:04:44,895 --> 01:04:47,215
what is a horse related point? What do you mean?

958
01:04:47,215 --> 01:04:51,681
Give an example, please. Let's ask AI. We'll have to

959
01:04:51,681 --> 01:04:55,201
ask Copilot. Any idea, Michelle? I couldn't look it up.

960
01:04:55,302 --> 01:05:01,281
Actually, it wasn't just something. Yeah, we'll let Michelle look

961
01:05:01,281 --> 01:05:07,406
that up while we go through this. There's. A point.

962
01:05:07,406 --> 01:05:13,326
There's a horse. And Christine, here's your force. Um, as

963
01:05:13,507 --> 01:05:15,886
Michelle's looking through that, then we asked about, Hey, if

964
01:05:15,907 --> 01:05:18,446
we did a pilot program, what would you, how would

965
01:05:18,446 --> 01:05:20,926
you like us to evaluate it? What are those, those

966
01:05:20,947 --> 01:05:24,846
markers of success? Um, and the themes to related to

967
01:05:24,886 --> 01:05:28,206
what success would look like for a pilot, um, including

968
01:05:28,867 --> 01:05:33,786
educate included education and etiquette, clear rules and communication. Um,

969
01:05:34,227 --> 01:05:37,726
equality over user groups. Purpose - built trails and directional

970
01:05:37,827 --> 01:05:42,926
use, enforcement and compliance and conflict reduction. So they said,

971
01:05:42,926 --> 01:05:44,446
Hey, if you're going to, if you're going to see

972
01:05:44,446 --> 01:05:46,526
if this, if you do a pilot, this is what

973
01:05:47,027 --> 01:05:49,886
success would look like for those that responded to the

974
01:05:49,907 --> 01:05:59,695
survey. And again, just kind of, we asked us a

975
01:05:59,695 --> 01:06:04,175
little differently, um, pilot outcomes that should be measured, community

976
01:06:04,196 --> 01:06:08,175
and visitor satisfaction, 54 percent reported that that would be

977
01:06:08,676 --> 01:06:11,695
one of the outcomes they would like us to measure.

978
01:06:11,695 --> 01:06:16,095
Um, fewer conflicts between different types of trail users, reduce

979
01:06:16,276 --> 01:06:22,977
trail crowding and then. So those are the major kind

980
01:06:22,977 --> 01:06:26,017
of outcomes that we saw from this. Um, that we

981
01:06:26,278 --> 01:06:30,257
wanted to share tonight. Our next steps staff is still

982
01:06:30,297 --> 01:06:34,017
finalizing the survey analysis. The final report was actually released

983
01:06:34,118 --> 01:06:38,017
about 10 minutes before we started the post - AC

984
01:06:38,017 --> 01:06:41,857
meeting. So it's out there. Um, again, that's, that's Michelle's

985
01:06:41,958 --> 01:06:45,217
really hard work that she spent weekends doing. So please

986
01:06:45,238 --> 01:06:48,017
take a look at that. Um, again, we'll have a

987
01:06:48,057 --> 01:06:50,737
session with the Board of County Commissioners on June 30th

988
01:06:50,777 --> 01:06:54,017
to talk about the report and hear their feedback and

989
01:06:54,017 --> 01:06:57,777
get further direction. Um, and then we'll continue to provide

990
01:06:57,798 --> 01:07:00,417
you updates as we, as we go along this journey

991
01:07:01,238 --> 01:07:04,097
and see where we end up. So, um, and again,

992
01:07:04,118 --> 01:07:08,497
no actions requested today. So I'm happy to take questions.

993
01:07:08,497 --> 01:07:11,297
And I've got Michelle and Jason here. If you, if

994
01:07:11,318 --> 01:07:15,617
they're too difficult. Thank you, Bevin. That is a wonderful

995
01:07:16,118 --> 01:07:22,177
summary of a huge amount of input. So thank you,

996
01:07:22,177 --> 01:07:27,537
uh, Bevin and Jarrett and Michelle for getting that together.

997
01:07:27,537 --> 01:07:33,297
So as before, um, take questions and comments from post

998
01:07:33,318 --> 01:07:37,457
sac in the room. And then I'll call on Jeffrey

999
01:07:37,798 --> 01:07:46,736
remotely. Great. So, uh, anybody here. Christine. Johnson Posack, I

1000
01:07:46,736 --> 01:07:50,296
don't always have to go first. I just, I want

1001
01:07:50,296 --> 01:07:54,536
to point out that, um, the county has triggered cyclists.

1002
01:07:54,536 --> 01:07:58,936
I think that's pretty clear. Right. Um, eight, 7, 500,

1003
01:07:58,976 --> 01:08:03,576
8, 000, whatever responses is a lot. And, um, they

1004
01:08:03,616 --> 01:08:09,416
are really upset. I think that, um, traces analysis of

1005
01:08:09,677 --> 01:08:13,656
the conflict and the report, the excellent report that Michelle

1006
01:08:13,837 --> 01:08:18,696
did just before this are really, really helpful. Um, knowing

1007
01:08:18,696 --> 01:08:22,376
that there is a low level of conflict, but that

1008
01:08:22,717 --> 01:08:30,536
maybe there's disproportionately more from, uh, bikes, from dogs and

1009
01:08:30,557 --> 01:08:36,616
from horses is really informative. And I, this reminds me

1010
01:08:36,717 --> 01:08:41,336
a little bit of the weed process where I feel

1011
01:08:41,357 --> 01:08:46,856
like the process triggered a group of people. And my

1012
01:08:46,896 --> 01:08:51,819
recommendation. For this is the same as for that, which

1013
01:08:51,819 --> 01:08:56,379
is I think that it would be really good to,

1014
01:08:56,379 --> 01:09:03,389
um, engage with the, um. I'm neutral about the pilot

1015
01:09:03,429 --> 01:09:05,069
project, but I think, I think it might be good

1016
01:09:05,090 --> 01:09:11,789
to really engage with, um, the cyclists and maybe the,

1017
01:09:12,210 --> 01:09:17,389
the, uh, the horseback, uh, writers as well and dig

1018
01:09:17,429 --> 01:09:20,749
into what's going on. And is this more of an

1019
01:09:20,850 --> 01:09:28,989
enforcement behavior? Should there be changes in education? I want

1020
01:09:28,989 --> 01:09:33,469
to, I, I have been, um, I've had my own

1021
01:09:33,490 --> 01:09:38,349
thoughts about why this was considered to be a priority

1022
01:09:38,850 --> 01:09:42,269
in the first place. And I wonder if being proactive

1023
01:09:42,610 --> 01:09:48,189
and engaging with, um, the community that's feeling targeted might

1024
01:09:48,210 --> 01:09:53,886
be an effective way to go. Thank you. Thank you.

1025
01:09:54,467 --> 01:09:59,006
Ariel Barberia Gibb. Um, I have a few questions. The

1026
01:09:59,027 --> 01:10:01,486
first one is, well, thank you for the survey. This

1027
01:10:01,486 --> 01:10:04,126
was incredible, a huge amount of work. I really appreciate

1028
01:10:04,307 --> 01:10:06,766
it. Clearly you guys care a lot. And it's very

1029
01:10:06,867 --> 01:10:11,326
evident. So I appreciate that. Um, and in the same

1030
01:10:11,587 --> 01:10:15,086
vein, so the count, the City of Lions recently passed

1031
01:10:15,907 --> 01:10:18,606
a resolution or line board of trustees past a resolution

1032
01:10:18,707 --> 01:10:21,086
opposing the pilot. And so I'm curious how that's going

1033
01:10:21,086 --> 01:10:25,086
to be, um, spoken to when you guys meet with

1034
01:10:25,267 --> 01:10:27,886
the commissioner is just because that wasn't part of the

1035
01:10:27,987 --> 01:10:30,126
survey. So I'm curious how that's going to be wrapped

1036
01:10:30,166 --> 01:10:32,526
in. If it will be talked about, um, or not.

1037
01:10:36,685 --> 01:10:40,024
I think I'd say that though, this is Jason Suk,

1038
01:10:40,024 --> 01:10:43,144
Director Parks Open Space, you know, the commissioners are well

1039
01:10:43,184 --> 01:10:46,664
aware of that resolution. Um, we're well aware of it.

1040
01:10:46,664 --> 01:10:48,664
And I'm not sure what we'll speak to in that

1041
01:10:48,664 --> 01:10:51,464
meeting, but, um, it's something definitely that is, uh, well

1042
01:10:51,504 --> 01:10:54,344
publicized and that, um, you know, that we're aware of.

1043
01:10:55,978 --> 01:10:59,957
Thanks. Um, and then another question is you had a

1044
01:10:59,957 --> 01:11:03,077
lot of questions in the survey about how people on

1045
01:11:03,098 --> 01:11:05,557
the trip or people who use the trail felt about

1046
01:11:05,658 --> 01:11:09,877
conflict and what can be done to like mitigate that,

1047
01:11:09,877 --> 01:11:11,677
be it education or etiquette, you know, that kind of

1048
01:11:11,677 --> 01:11:14,597
stuff. Was the reported level of conflict the four percent

1049
01:11:14,637 --> 01:11:18,437
number ever mentioned in the survey? Or was it up

1050
01:11:18,437 --> 01:11:21,317
to this survey taker to like kind of think about

1051
01:11:21,338 --> 01:11:23,557
how much conflict they've experienced on the trails.

1052
01:11:33,340 --> 01:11:37,559
Michelle Muratti here. Uh, so the question that was asked

1053
01:11:37,660 --> 01:11:44,279
in the online survey was not about interpersonal conflict. So,

1054
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:46,359
uh, but it was a different question that's commonly asked

1055
01:11:46,359 --> 01:11:50,919
about conflict. That's related to social values conflict. And the

1056
01:11:50,919 --> 01:11:53,959
reason we decided on that was because this was not

1057
01:11:55,580 --> 01:11:58,999
on site intercept survey of people experience in the parks.

1058
01:11:58,999 --> 01:12:01,879
It was open for anyone to complete. So even people

1059
01:12:01,980 --> 01:12:06,679
that don't visit our parks could provide feedback. And therefore

1060
01:12:07,340 --> 01:12:10,839
we asked a question, uh, in the survey, uh, that

1061
01:12:10,839 --> 01:12:14,279
was, I believe Ben showed it. Um, about to what

1062
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:16,279
extent do you think each of the following is a

1063
01:12:16,279 --> 01:12:18,759
problem on Parks and Open space. So we asked about

1064
01:12:19,020 --> 01:12:24,199
safety and courtesy. So we didn't address in the online

1065
01:12:24,460 --> 01:12:28,919
survey. The results of the five year study. However, the

1066
01:12:29,100 --> 01:12:32,519
results from the five year study were posted on the

1067
01:12:32,700 --> 01:12:38,159
alternating use web page where we discuss the project. So

1068
01:12:38,159 --> 01:12:41,639
we had information about activities as well as the conflict

1069
01:12:41,679 --> 01:12:47,152
rating publicly available. Got it. Thank you. Um, and I

1070
01:12:47,152 --> 01:12:51,072
think we can make comments, right? Um, I am not

1071
01:12:51,093 --> 01:12:54,112
neutral about this pilot. Um, I think the survey speaks

1072
01:12:54,152 --> 01:12:57,952
very clearly to what users of trails be it, you

1073
01:12:57,952 --> 01:13:00,832
know, bikers might have self - reported more or self

1074
01:13:01,573 --> 01:13:05,392
taken the survey more than hikers, but it's pretty clear.

1075
01:13:05,392 --> 01:13:06,992
And I think it's going to be really interesting what

1076
01:13:07,032 --> 01:13:11,152
the commissioners choose to do with this information. And I

1077
01:13:11,192 --> 01:13:14,172
don't think this fire is anywhere near a extinguished. And

1078
01:13:15,253 --> 01:13:18,192
I'm curious and nervous to see what's going to happen

1079
01:13:19,413 --> 01:13:23,552
if the alternating trail use pilot decides to go off.

1080
01:13:23,552 --> 01:13:26,672
Cause I think there's going to be a lot of,

1081
01:13:26,672 --> 01:13:28,752
I really hope, but there seems like there might be

1082
01:13:28,752 --> 01:13:31,472
a lot of backlash. Um, given the results you guys

1083
01:13:31,472 --> 01:13:34,295
have seen. And thank you again for the survey. Carol.

1084
01:13:36,125 --> 01:13:41,944
Carol Byerly POSEC and dog walker. And when, when Christine

1085
01:13:41,984 --> 01:13:45,304
was talking about, um, triggered and challenged, I would say

1086
01:13:45,405 --> 01:13:49,064
the dogs have already lost in Boulder County. And, and

1087
01:13:49,085 --> 01:13:52,984
I don't use the Boulder County Trails because my dog

1088
01:13:53,005 --> 01:13:55,624
runs off leash. I mean, she's, she needs her exercise.

1089
01:13:55,624 --> 01:14:00,504
She's a big dog. And so, um, so I just,

1090
01:14:00,544 --> 01:14:03,144
people go, dogs. Well, you know, the dogs are not

1091
01:14:03,165 --> 01:14:07,064
the dogs aren't there very much because, um, you just

1092
01:14:07,104 --> 01:14:10,264
don't, it's hard. It's not as much fun to walk

1093
01:14:10,285 --> 01:14:13,784
your dog with on a leash, at least my dog.

1094
01:14:13,784 --> 01:14:21,464
So, um, I would say the dogs have been cowed.

1095
01:14:21,464 --> 01:14:26,344
And so now it's, it's the hiking verses, the horses

1096
01:14:26,384 --> 01:14:27,944
and all of that. And I just had to put

1097
01:14:28,125 --> 01:14:32,824
in a word for good, good dogs. Uh, Trey Baker,

1098
01:14:32,824 --> 01:14:36,344
Posack, when I was up at Annu White two weeks

1099
01:14:36,344 --> 01:14:40,584
ago, uh, it was dog City up there with Unleash

1100
01:14:42,445 --> 01:14:47,704
that there were more unleashed than, uh, leashed. And I

1101
01:14:47,704 --> 01:14:50,504
was not in my volunteer Ranger uniform. So I didn't

1102
01:14:50,544 --> 01:14:57,304
call them out. They lost Carol Byley. They lost the

1103
01:14:57,325 --> 01:15:01,886
public policy. Fight. And so now they have to behave.

1104
01:15:04,418 --> 01:15:06,877
So and I just, okay. As I'm on a roll,

1105
01:15:06,877 --> 01:15:09,357
I'm going to just say we have to really comment

1106
01:15:09,458 --> 01:15:14,877
on Copilot analyzing the pilot program. That doesn't generally work

1107
01:15:14,898 --> 01:15:23,326
that way. All right. I'll humor. I'm done. Vicky. Hey,

1108
01:15:23,326 --> 01:15:26,366
Blevin. Um, I don't know if you saw the commentary

1109
01:15:26,547 --> 01:15:28,446
that was written in the daily camera a few days

1110
01:15:28,486 --> 01:15:33,326
ago talking about this pilot project. And they, did you

1111
01:15:33,366 --> 01:15:35,086
happen to see that by any chance? I would say

1112
01:15:35,267 --> 01:15:39,566
which piece comment right. Okay. So I've been out of

1113
01:15:39,566 --> 01:15:42,324
town. I only saw the one recently. My question is

1114
01:15:42,585 --> 01:15:46,164
if you can address the writer to this, and this

1115
01:15:46,204 --> 01:15:47,924
is something I don't know, I don't go out of

1116
01:15:47,964 --> 01:15:50,964
Boulder County a lot. I'm mostly stambledder County Trails. There's

1117
01:15:50,964 --> 01:15:54,084
plenty of them here to suit me. Um, but they

1118
01:15:54,345 --> 01:15:58,084
come in at that neighboring communities or counties or whatever

1119
01:15:58,425 --> 01:16:03,844
have differing ways of dealing with visibility. You know, I

1120
01:16:03,844 --> 01:16:06,544
know one of the issues for hikers. And I can

1121
01:16:06,544 --> 01:16:08,644
say I've seen this as a hiker as having bikes

1122
01:16:08,665 --> 01:16:11,124
come up that you don't know they're coming. And all

1123
01:16:11,124 --> 01:16:12,804
of a sudden they're around a corner and they're flying

1124
01:16:12,825 --> 01:16:15,284
downhill and you're trying to walk uphill. And you know,

1125
01:16:15,284 --> 01:16:17,924
whatever. So that there were some way that other counties

1126
01:16:18,025 --> 01:16:22,404
are dealing with that is a visibility issue. Um, rather

1127
01:16:22,505 --> 01:16:26,164
than having to do the alternating. So can you speak

1128
01:16:26,345 --> 01:16:28,644
at all to what other counties are doing to try

1129
01:16:28,644 --> 01:16:32,804
and alleviate? I'm specifically talking about the bike hiker conflict.

1130
01:16:32,804 --> 01:16:34,644
Yeah. And I think we're, we're doing it here as

1131
01:16:34,644 --> 01:16:37,024
well. And I think when it comes to visibility, um,

1132
01:16:38,585 --> 01:16:40,164
a couple of things came up and maybe I didn't

1133
01:16:40,185 --> 01:16:43,204
hit on it really well, but addressing our sight lines

1134
01:16:43,305 --> 01:16:45,284
on trails is one. So if we, if we know

1135
01:16:45,324 --> 01:16:48,944
we have a corner that's difficult to see around, did

1136
01:16:48,944 --> 01:16:50,804
we move the trail? Can we, can we clean up

1137
01:16:50,825 --> 01:16:53,844
that sight line so you can see those individuals. Another

1138
01:16:53,844 --> 01:16:56,644
thing that we do here is we have directional use.

1139
01:16:56,644 --> 01:16:58,724
So, you know, once a month, we'll, we'll switch the

1140
01:16:58,825 --> 01:17:01,364
use on some of our trails. And we'll ask bikers

1141
01:17:01,364 --> 01:17:03,684
just to go one way so that if you're hiking,

1142
01:17:03,684 --> 01:17:06,484
you know which way those bikers will travel. And then

1143
01:17:06,484 --> 01:17:09,124
as a hiker, you can select, Hey, I want to,

1144
01:17:09,124 --> 01:17:12,564
I want them always to be coming at me so

1145
01:17:12,604 --> 01:17:14,804
I can see them. Or if you're okay with them

1146
01:17:14,844 --> 01:17:16,964
coming up behind you, you can, you can go the

1147
01:17:16,964 --> 01:17:19,604
same way as the biker. So directional use came up

1148
01:17:20,025 --> 01:17:23,124
many, many times in the surveys, um, and we as

1149
01:17:23,305 --> 01:17:26,404
we present our materials to the Board of County Commissioners.

1150
01:17:26,404 --> 01:17:28,964
It'll be one that we look at. Hey, is doing

1151
01:17:29,004 --> 01:17:31,764
something like directional use on some of these trails, something

1152
01:17:31,764 --> 01:17:34,884
we should do more of, um, I think signage is

1153
01:17:34,905 --> 01:17:38,384
important as well. Um, sometimes we forget about, you know,

1154
01:17:38,985 --> 01:17:40,884
just things that we see on the highway all the

1155
01:17:40,884 --> 01:17:44,884
time, like blind corner coming up or slow limited sight

1156
01:17:44,884 --> 01:17:47,684
lines, slow hikers ahead. Um, those are all things we

1157
01:17:47,705 --> 01:17:50,084
can do as well. And those will be some ideas

1158
01:17:50,265 --> 01:17:52,884
that we'll present with the, uh, the board on June

1159
01:17:53,065 --> 01:18:02,711
30th. Thank you. Anybody else, Posack. Jeff.

1160
01:18:04,980 --> 01:18:09,839
Hey, thanks Trace. Um, yeah, I have maybe a question

1161
01:18:10,180 --> 01:18:13,759
and a couple of comments. Um, yeah, just to echo,

1162
01:18:13,759 --> 01:18:18,319
uh, some of the other folks, kudos on sequencing here,

1163
01:18:18,359 --> 01:18:21,519
that was really helpful to hear the five year survey

1164
01:18:21,540 --> 01:18:25,279
results, uh, kind of before we dived into this survey

1165
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:27,519
gives a lot of context. So thank you for that.

1166
01:18:30,112 --> 01:18:32,171
Yeah. I mean, I guess just a comment for me

1167
01:18:32,192 --> 01:18:38,411
would be that, you know, uh, obviously I'm personally sympathetic

1168
01:18:38,451 --> 01:18:43,291
to cyclists. I'm nursing cycling injury right now. That's why

1169
01:18:43,331 --> 01:18:45,851
I'm not there. Um, but you know, when I talked

1170
01:18:45,891 --> 01:18:50,491
to people about this pilot, the reason, you know, that

1171
01:18:50,512 --> 01:18:54,091
cyclists are generally upset about it who I talk to

1172
01:18:54,512 --> 01:18:58,971
is because, you know, currently they're, you know, the, the

1173
01:18:59,952 --> 01:19:04,571
alternate use at Batasso Preserve that only existing alternate use

1174
01:19:04,672 --> 01:19:08,871
for multi - use trail, uh, is actually, you know,

1175
01:19:09,312 --> 01:19:12,811
not alternating. It's just a restriction for cyclists, right? Um,

1176
01:19:12,851 --> 01:19:15,131
but there's no restriction for hiking. And so I think

1177
01:19:15,131 --> 01:19:20,391
the anticipation, whether perceived or intended, and I, you know,

1178
01:19:20,512 --> 01:19:24,151
I can't speak for the county commissioners on that, but

1179
01:19:24,352 --> 01:19:27,851
their perception is, you know, that it'll be more of

1180
01:19:27,891 --> 01:19:30,811
that, right? That, that the real question is, are we

1181
01:19:30,811 --> 01:19:35,147
going to restrict Mountain Becking more. And that feels unfair.

1182
01:19:35,147 --> 01:19:38,587
Um, so that may or may not be the intention,

1183
01:19:38,587 --> 01:19:42,567
but I guess regardless, you know, it would seem, uh,

1184
01:19:42,688 --> 01:19:47,547
that the proposal is deeply unpopular. So I'll be interested

1185
01:19:47,648 --> 01:19:51,467
to see what the commissioners do with it. Um, I

1186
01:19:51,467 --> 01:19:54,427
did wonder, you know, and I don't know if you

1187
01:19:54,427 --> 01:19:57,067
have a sense of this, but like, do we know

1188
01:19:57,328 --> 01:20:00,307
what next steps are for Posec on this issue? I

1189
01:20:00,307 --> 01:20:03,627
know this work session is coming up on the 30th

1190
01:20:03,648 --> 01:20:06,987
for the commissioners and there'll be more direction after that.

1191
01:20:06,987 --> 01:20:09,467
But as they're, you know, an intention to like sort

1192
01:20:09,467 --> 01:20:14,147
of bring that direction back in front of Posack, or

1193
01:20:14,147 --> 01:20:17,639
do we just kind of wait and see. Uh, Jeff

1194
01:20:17,740 --> 01:20:26,119
Trayaker Posack, to answer that question, uh, POSAC has not

1195
01:20:26,119 --> 01:20:31,159
been directly involved in the decision making here. We have

1196
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:35,719
had wonderful updates from staff, uh, but we have been

1197
01:20:36,780 --> 01:20:39,399
excluded. I know that's a strong word, but I'll use

1198
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:47,387
it from advising the commissioners on this topic. Yeah. I

1199
01:20:47,387 --> 01:20:50,907
guess that's the sense that I'm getting as well. So,

1200
01:20:50,907 --> 01:20:54,867
uh, I don't know if staff can speak to, is

1201
01:20:54,867 --> 01:21:00,267
there an intention to include POSAC at some point or

1202
01:21:00,608 --> 01:21:02,827
do we just kind of see what comes out of

1203
01:21:02,848 --> 01:21:09,179
the work session on the 30th. Sure. Jason Sook, Director

1204
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:11,959
Parks and Open Space. Uh, Jeff, great question. And, uh,

1205
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:16,039
well, first off, we're glad you're on screen, but, uh,

1206
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,219
hope to see you soon in person. Hope you recover

1207
01:21:18,259 --> 01:21:22,139
well. And thanks so much for being here. Um, so

1208
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:28,379
I think, you know, whether it's forming opinions on, on,

1209
01:21:28,419 --> 01:21:33,419
on potential exploration of possible options, uh, on this pilot

1210
01:21:33,419 --> 01:21:36,059
project or even next steps here, I think what we

1211
01:21:36,099 --> 01:21:38,859
first have to do is, um, on the 30th of

1212
01:21:38,899 --> 01:21:42,619
June, um, talk to the commissioners and, you know, have

1213
01:21:42,619 --> 01:21:44,539
a discussion on those next steps. So that's what that

1214
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,279
meeting is for is what are those next steps? You

1215
01:21:48,279 --> 01:21:50,494
know, what decisions, you know, could be made. You know,

1216
01:21:50,515 --> 01:21:52,734
may not be made there. And then move on from

1217
01:21:52,835 --> 01:21:55,674
there. So I think that's kind of the, you know,

1218
01:21:55,875 --> 01:21:58,654
our immediate next step and depending on, you know, where

1219
01:21:58,654 --> 01:22:01,854
we go from there, uh, will determine, you know, sort

1220
01:22:01,854 --> 01:22:04,814
of our, our path forward. So, uh, sort of depends

1221
01:22:04,814 --> 01:22:08,894
on, you know, what we're talking about, what, uh, you

1222
01:22:08,894 --> 01:22:12,254
know, what options we move forward with or perhaps just

1223
01:22:12,435 --> 01:22:15,454
continue to discuss, you know, have a discussion and get

1224
01:22:15,494 --> 01:22:18,574
some information from the Board of County Commissioners. So I

1225
01:22:18,574 --> 01:22:21,854
can't answer it yet, but, um, our intention again is

1226
01:22:21,854 --> 01:22:25,694
always is to, um, keep you well informed. Um, utilize

1227
01:22:25,694 --> 01:22:29,214
the bylaws that we have that govern this body. And,

1228
01:22:29,214 --> 01:22:31,694
you know, and, and work closely with you. Um, so

1229
01:22:31,694 --> 01:22:34,654
that's where we are right now. Thanks so much. Trey

1230
01:22:34,755 --> 01:22:38,474
Baker Post Hack and Jeff, of course, you are, um,

1231
01:22:38,675 --> 01:22:43,614
also free to, uh, email the County Commissioners. You're free

1232
01:22:43,654 --> 01:22:46,334
to sign up on one of the public comment sections

1233
01:22:47,555 --> 01:22:52,814
as an individual, not representing POSAC. But your voice can

1234
01:22:52,854 --> 01:22:57,066
be heard in that way. Awesome. Thanks, Trace. That's all

1235
01:22:57,066 --> 01:23:00,266
I got, uh, on this topic. Appreciate it. Thank you.

1236
01:23:00,527 --> 01:23:05,786
Trey Baker Pocsack got a few questions and comments for

1237
01:23:06,447 --> 01:23:13,686
Bevin. And, um, if the purpose, or at least one

1238
01:23:13,686 --> 01:23:16,906
of the purposes you showed in your slide is to

1239
01:23:16,946 --> 01:23:23,786
reduce crowding a possible solution would be to reduce the

1240
01:23:23,786 --> 01:23:30,986
number of parking spaces on a particular day. Yeah. You

1241
01:23:30,986 --> 01:23:34,186
know, and yes, it would take resources to block the

1242
01:23:34,287 --> 01:23:38,426
parking spaces, but it will also take resources to reduce

1243
01:23:39,487 --> 01:23:46,900
or enforce, you know, alternate use days. Responding to Christine's

1244
01:23:46,940 --> 01:23:56,407
comment about AI. I did ask. Carol on

1245
01:23:56,428 --> 01:24:03,287
AI. I did ask the Claude AI. If people who

1246
01:24:03,868 --> 01:24:06,807
are more likely to feel they're going to lose something

1247
01:24:07,308 --> 01:24:11,207
would be more likely to respond to a survey and

1248
01:24:11,247 --> 01:24:19,287
a site references. And God quite, like two pages worth.

1249
01:24:19,287 --> 01:24:21,507
And it's, you know, part of it is, you know,

1250
01:24:21,548 --> 01:24:25,827
yes, the AI said it's complicated, but in general, uh,

1251
01:24:25,868 --> 01:24:28,727
the biking community, you know, will feel that they are

1252
01:24:28,767 --> 01:24:31,847
more likely to lose something. And therefore are more likely

1253
01:24:31,868 --> 01:24:37,207
to, um, respond to the survey. So there is that,

1254
01:24:37,207 --> 01:24:43,687
uh, bias in there. And, uh, from my systems engineering

1255
01:24:43,788 --> 01:24:48,727
training and experience, um, in, you know, analyzing methods for

1256
01:24:48,748 --> 01:24:53,447
analyzing and selecting from alternatives, uh, one thing we're always

1257
01:24:53,487 --> 01:25:00,388
supposed to include as an alternative is do nothing. And

1258
01:25:00,388 --> 01:25:03,508
so, um, you know, I hope that you will include

1259
01:25:03,689 --> 01:25:09,808
that in your presentation to the County Commissioners. You know,

1260
01:25:09,808 --> 01:25:14,148
as I mentioned during, uh, Michelle's presentation, you know, if

1261
01:25:14,249 --> 01:25:20,068
bikers are only responsible for 1. 5 percent of conflict,

1262
01:25:20,249 --> 01:25:23,268
I will claim there is no problem that needs to

1263
01:25:23,268 --> 01:25:27,657
be solved. On the other hand, you know, dogs show

1264
01:25:27,838 --> 01:25:30,537
out Porses show up. So, you know, if you would

1265
01:25:30,577 --> 01:25:36,197
consider, uh, no dog days or human only days, you

1266
01:25:36,197 --> 01:25:40,457
know, to get rid of the dogs and horses on

1267
01:25:40,558 --> 01:25:48,207
particular days. Of bears. Okay. So, so that's, um, that's

1268
01:25:48,247 --> 01:25:52,287
my point. Uh, thank you. And Carol, yeah, a point

1269
01:25:52,287 --> 01:25:56,287
of personal matter actually. I have a question about procedure

1270
01:25:56,948 --> 01:26:00,367
and it's directed to you, Trace. Yes. Um, what would

1271
01:26:00,407 --> 01:26:05,407
you think if we took a straw vote and then

1272
01:26:05,407 --> 01:26:10,111
on this. And just kind of acted on our own

1273
01:26:11,172 --> 01:26:17,478
and to see where POSAC stands on this pilot. And

1274
01:26:17,739 --> 01:26:22,038
added that to information that can go forward. I am

1275
01:26:22,219 --> 01:26:25,958
not aware of anything in the bylaws that will present,

1276
01:26:25,998 --> 01:26:33,858
prevent that, uh, looking at Jason for guidance here. Or

1277
01:26:33,858 --> 01:26:41,931
the attorney. And I would also then, if I was

1278
01:26:41,931 --> 01:26:45,951
going to propose this, I would propose that we first

1279
01:26:46,052 --> 01:26:51,050
vote on whether we would vote. And so propose Act

1280
01:26:51,151 --> 01:26:55,850
to decide whether they wanted to take a straw vote

1281
01:26:55,951 --> 01:26:58,810
on proceeding with the pilot. And then if we don't

1282
01:26:58,810 --> 01:27:00,010
want to do it, then we don't have to do

1283
01:27:00,010 --> 01:27:02,219
it. But then if we decide that we would like

1284
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:06,859
to take a straw vote, then we would agree to

1285
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:09,099
just take a straw vote and then send that information

1286
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:16,758
into the public policy arena. Well, okay. Um, Jason, it

1287
01:27:16,798 --> 01:27:23,577
looks like you're ready to comment on that. Well, I

1288
01:27:23,577 --> 01:27:27,497
think, uh, Jason Sook, director, uh, Parks and Open Space.

1289
01:27:27,497 --> 01:27:30,297
I think, um, maybe I'd also ask Liana if you'd

1290
01:27:30,297 --> 01:27:31,897
like to, if you have anything to chime in here,

1291
01:27:31,897 --> 01:27:36,137
but my understanding of operations is that you all can

1292
01:27:36,177 --> 01:27:38,537
deliberate. You can talk amongst yourselves. You can have that

1293
01:27:38,638 --> 01:27:44,037
discussion and you can communicate, um, as you've mentioned, um,

1294
01:27:44,478 --> 01:27:46,217
you know, with, with the Board of County Commissioners as

1295
01:27:46,318 --> 01:27:51,337
to fitting in your opinions with our procedures and how

1296
01:27:51,377 --> 01:27:53,017
we operate in the bylaws, I think that's a different

1297
01:27:53,118 --> 01:27:58,008
question. Okay. Lianne. Yeah. This is Liana Larimore, Assistant County

1298
01:27:58,008 --> 01:28:00,088
Attorney. So this is not a question that typically comes

1299
01:28:00,128 --> 01:28:03,288
up, right? Cause you typically only vote on something if

1300
01:28:03,288 --> 01:28:06,088
you've been asked for that direction by the Board of

1301
01:28:06,088 --> 01:28:09,088
County Commissioner. So in order to answer your question, I

1302
01:28:09,149 --> 01:28:11,848
would like to take about five minutes to read through

1303
01:28:11,848 --> 01:28:14,408
the bylaws thoroughly so that I can provide you with

1304
01:28:14,749 --> 01:28:18,408
the best answer. Thank you. And can we cheat and

1305
01:28:18,448 --> 01:28:21,034
not call it a vote. Call it a poll. A

1306
01:28:21,074 --> 01:28:23,994
poll. Okay. Is that okay if we just take a

1307
01:28:24,255 --> 01:28:29,514
short recess for me to read those? Certainly. Thanks. Trace.

1308
01:28:29,818 --> 01:28:38,098
Okay. So let's go to Lauren. Lauren Kelso. I, um,

1309
01:28:39,099 --> 01:28:41,558
I, I think I appreciate this exercise, but I have

1310
01:28:41,558 --> 01:28:43,718
to say there are other things in this agenda that

1311
01:28:43,899 --> 01:28:46,598
I'm really interested in getting to tonight and that feel

1312
01:28:46,598 --> 01:28:49,478
really timely and important also. And since we aren't being

1313
01:28:49,739 --> 01:28:53,078
asked, if we did raise a vote, uh, I guess

1314
01:28:53,259 --> 01:28:54,838
my vote would be that we don't go through this

1315
01:28:55,499 --> 01:28:58,758
exercise. And the ways that we as individuals can share

1316
01:28:58,758 --> 01:29:00,838
our opinions with the commissioners and other things. And since

1317
01:29:00,838 --> 01:29:03,678
we aren't being asked to do that right now, I

1318
01:29:03,678 --> 01:29:05,798
would just like to get to the other things that

1319
01:29:05,838 --> 01:29:09,718
are on the agenda. Okay. Thank you. Joan. Yes. Joan

1320
01:29:09,739 --> 01:29:13,398
Loot's posea. Can I agree with you? And, um, I

1321
01:29:13,438 --> 01:29:16,118
also think that there are other ways to do it.

1322
01:29:16,118 --> 01:29:18,838
Like for example, you could have days that are biker

1323
01:29:18,859 --> 01:29:23,318
only. And you know, limit the days that it's hiker

1324
01:29:23,358 --> 01:29:28,118
only. So the options. It's hard to vote on one

1325
01:29:28,158 --> 01:29:34,695
thing. Okay. Thank you. I would agree with Lauren and

1326
01:29:34,796 --> 01:29:39,575
Joan. Okay. So, um, without a raise of hands here,

1327
01:29:39,575 --> 01:29:43,015
it seems like the verbal consensus is that we will

1328
01:29:43,036 --> 01:29:49,635
not, um, act as a body, but is, you know,

1329
01:29:49,635 --> 01:29:53,735
as I advise Jeff, you know, you're certainly welcome to,

1330
01:29:53,735 --> 01:30:01,318
uh, email the commissioners as individuals. All right, Albarberiel, can

1331
01:30:01,318 --> 01:30:03,978
we still know whether we can do this? Yes. Asking

1332
01:30:03,999 --> 01:30:07,338
the attorney. We don't, you can, you can keep looking.

1333
01:30:07,338 --> 01:30:10,210
I just wanted to know, you did still know. Just

1334
01:30:10,210 --> 01:30:17,317
to know. For the future. A rogue. And Larimor, Assistant

1335
01:30:17,317 --> 01:30:20,197
County attorney. Yes, we can continue with the agenda and

1336
01:30:20,197 --> 01:30:22,117
I will read through the bylaws. And then I can

1337
01:30:22,117 --> 01:30:25,717
come back and answer the question. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

1338
01:30:25,757 --> 01:30:33,726
So, uh, anything more Jeff, anything from Posec. Uh, yeah,

1339
01:30:33,726 --> 01:30:36,766
I was just going to add too that I think

1340
01:30:36,787 --> 01:30:40,046
it's kind of fun to like take an unauthorized vote,

1341
01:30:40,046 --> 01:30:43,246
but I guess my one, my one concern would be

1342
01:30:43,286 --> 01:30:47,486
that, uh, because this is an informational item. We don't

1343
01:30:47,486 --> 01:30:51,406
have a public comment session, you know, and public comment

1344
01:30:51,427 --> 01:30:55,732
hasn't been invited. Uh, to it. And so, you know,

1345
01:30:55,933 --> 01:30:58,712
we would have to sort of vote blind in that

1346
01:30:58,752 --> 01:31:01,432
sense, you know, without being able to hear from folks

1347
01:31:01,533 --> 01:31:05,272
who were interested to show up and speak on it

1348
01:31:05,293 --> 01:31:07,752
one way or another. And so that made me feel

1349
01:31:07,773 --> 01:31:13,032
like, uh, voting on, you know, on an incomplete amount

1350
01:31:13,133 --> 01:31:17,436
of information to me. So I guess maybe my vote

1351
01:31:17,457 --> 01:31:21,876
would be not to also, if we were going to

1352
01:31:21,876 --> 01:31:24,636
vote on it, I don't know. I'm on the fence,

1353
01:31:24,636 --> 01:31:27,436
but that is like a thought that came to mind.

1354
01:31:27,436 --> 01:31:29,596
So I thought I'd just throw that up there. Okay.

1355
01:31:29,596 --> 01:31:35,916
So thank you, Jeff. And, um, I think we're done.

1356
01:31:35,916 --> 01:31:39,789
Jason. Sook, um, I just wanted to again outline kind

1357
01:31:39,789 --> 01:31:42,509
of where we are now. So, um, we're lucky enough

1358
01:31:42,549 --> 01:31:45,389
to have again, talented, uh, Michelle and team to be

1359
01:31:45,389 --> 01:31:48,669
able to very, very, very quickly turn around, um, you

1360
01:31:48,669 --> 01:31:52,989
know, detailed survey results. Um, information from the open houses

1361
01:31:52,989 --> 01:31:56,909
that we had to kind of inform, you know, our

1362
01:31:56,949 --> 01:32:00,109
thinking on moving forward. So where we are now is,

1363
01:32:00,109 --> 01:32:02,829
you know, again, looking forward to June 30th, where we're

1364
01:32:03,170 --> 01:32:05,629
going to talk with the commissioners on next steps and

1365
01:32:05,669 --> 01:32:09,069
also, you know, think through and discuss potential options. So

1366
01:32:09,090 --> 01:32:12,749
we're at the options and kind of collecting information and

1367
01:32:12,789 --> 01:32:18,749
developing those alternatives now. So, um, you know, that, that's,

1368
01:32:18,749 --> 01:32:21,850
we're not, we don't have yet a set path. And

1369
01:32:21,850 --> 01:32:23,690
so I just wanted to emphasize where we are in

1370
01:32:23,690 --> 01:32:27,290
that process currently. And then, um, the other piece that

1371
01:32:27,330 --> 01:32:30,150
I, you know, we presented now just, just now, um,

1372
01:32:30,431 --> 01:32:34,890
and Devon did a fantastic job on the survey data,

1373
01:32:34,890 --> 01:32:36,490
but we had a lot of other things and we

1374
01:32:36,530 --> 01:32:40,890
just posted the finalized survey online. And it also has,

1375
01:32:40,890 --> 01:32:42,810
um, some of the open - ended feedback. So this

1376
01:32:42,831 --> 01:32:45,290
survey results, if I'm not mistaken, is based on the

1377
01:32:45,311 --> 01:32:48,410
actual survey, but we also had open - ended feedback

1378
01:32:48,431 --> 01:32:52,330
that's there. And so part of that, um, you know,

1379
01:32:52,330 --> 01:32:55,930
was kind of diving into how people think and feel.

1380
01:32:55,930 --> 01:32:58,090
And this is the part that I guess has been,

1381
01:32:58,090 --> 01:32:59,830
you know, of interest to me. And I think, you

1382
01:32:59,830 --> 01:33:04,010
know, not speaking for anyone else. But, you know, maybe

1383
01:33:04,010 --> 01:33:06,890
at the heart of the issue where, you know, we're

1384
01:33:06,930 --> 01:33:11,370
talking about numbers here, but conflict, you know, there's, there's

1385
01:33:11,370 --> 01:33:13,690
people who, you know, have real reasons why they don't

1386
01:33:13,711 --> 01:33:16,950
come or when they do come that there are, you

1387
01:33:16,950 --> 01:33:19,450
know, issues that they face. And those are real ones

1388
01:33:19,631 --> 01:33:21,290
and ones that are, you know, I think we take

1389
01:33:21,330 --> 01:33:24,410
serious and are important to consider. So, you know, we,

1390
01:33:24,410 --> 01:33:25,770
you know, I find that it's easy to get lost

1391
01:33:25,791 --> 01:33:28,070
in the survey data and some of the responses, but

1392
01:33:28,351 --> 01:33:30,490
the people who have come forward and shared their stories

1393
01:33:30,591 --> 01:33:32,890
on, you know, things that have happened to them on

1394
01:33:32,930 --> 01:33:35,770
the trail or reasons why they might not. Reasons why

1395
01:33:35,770 --> 01:33:39,610
they don't bring their kids, you know, accessibility issues, many

1396
01:33:39,610 --> 01:33:42,250
things where, you know, that people, um, go to a

1397
01:33:42,290 --> 01:33:45,190
trail and might, might perceive that conflict. And, you know,

1398
01:33:45,311 --> 01:33:48,970
perhaps that's a certain percentage. Perhaps it's not, but it's

1399
01:33:49,010 --> 01:33:50,410
something that we want to take on. And I think

1400
01:33:50,511 --> 01:33:52,730
it's right to at least think about it and consider

1401
01:33:52,730 --> 01:33:54,950
it. And so that's kind of where we are. Um,

1402
01:33:55,391 --> 01:33:58,010
as we try to balance all these different things, balance

1403
01:33:58,050 --> 01:34:01,210
data, balance stories, um, balance people's, you know, I think

1404
01:34:01,391 --> 01:34:04,090
valid opinions. And it's not an easy job, um, but

1405
01:34:04,111 --> 01:34:06,330
it's one that we're trying to figure out and navigate

1406
01:34:06,431 --> 01:34:10,410
together with, um, the commissioners and others. So thanks. Thanks

1407
01:34:10,511 --> 01:34:13,610
for the insight, Jason. And I believe we're done with

1408
01:34:13,871 --> 01:34:17,130
this topic. So Bevin, thank you very much. Michelle, thank

1409
01:34:17,130 --> 01:34:22,638
you again. So our next topic is water rights management

1410
01:34:22,899 --> 01:34:23,278
overview.

1411
01:34:50,218 --> 01:34:57,041
Hi everybody. Um. Hi, my name is Darren Beck. I'm

1412
01:34:57,642 --> 01:35:02,261
the, whoop, thank you. Water program supervisor. Um, for the

1413
01:35:02,362 --> 01:35:05,701
agriculture resources division in parks and open space. I'm here

1414
01:35:05,722 --> 01:35:09,693
with Vanessa McCracken. She's the Ag and Water Manager. Um,

1415
01:35:09,874 --> 01:35:16,518
for the division. Um, we will be discussing, uh, the

1416
01:35:16,699 --> 01:35:20,918
ag water program as well as the current drought conditions.

1417
01:35:27,198 --> 01:35:31,577
So there's a lot to cover. Um, and, um, I'd

1418
01:35:31,577 --> 01:35:34,617
like to kind of try to focus on the drought

1419
01:35:34,638 --> 01:35:36,697
conditions and where we are right now and the impacts

1420
01:35:36,697 --> 01:35:39,257
that we've seen to the drought. But I wanted to,

1421
01:35:39,257 --> 01:35:41,817
um, take a step and make sure that everybody was

1422
01:35:41,998 --> 01:35:45,417
understanding water rights in general. Um, cause I know it's

1423
01:35:45,417 --> 01:35:49,977
a, it's a complex project topic that I think it's

1424
01:35:50,017 --> 01:35:52,937
overlooked a lot. Um, so I'd like to spend a

1425
01:35:52,937 --> 01:35:56,057
little bit of time on, um, just discussing water rights

1426
01:35:56,558 --> 01:36:00,377
and then get into the water program that we have.

1427
01:36:00,377 --> 01:36:04,537
Um, and then some, an overview of the process of

1428
01:36:04,638 --> 01:36:07,817
delivering water. Again, I think it's something that we take

1429
01:36:07,857 --> 01:36:10,937
for granted sometimes that we don't truly understand how it

1430
01:36:11,118 --> 01:36:16,532
happens, like on a farm level. So, um, so yeah,

1431
01:36:16,572 --> 01:36:19,492
so I'd like to do spend a little bit of

1432
01:36:19,532 --> 01:36:22,372
time on that. And then Vanessa will speak to the

1433
01:36:22,412 --> 01:36:30,011
impacts that you're out and what's next. So, you know,

1434
01:36:30,032 --> 01:36:33,451
as I was thinking about this topic, um, I felt

1435
01:36:33,451 --> 01:36:35,451
like I really needed to take a step back so

1436
01:36:35,472 --> 01:36:38,811
that everybody understands, you know, how, how water moves across

1437
01:36:38,992 --> 01:36:44,731
the front range. So, you know, just to apologize if

1438
01:36:44,771 --> 01:36:47,211
this is old news, but just to make sure everybody's

1439
01:36:47,211 --> 01:36:50,951
understanding before I get into water rights themselves, but, you

1440
01:36:50,951 --> 01:36:57,051
know, an irrigation ditch, um, will deliver river water or,

1441
01:36:57,051 --> 01:37:00,411
you know, water from storage, a reservoir, um, from the

1442
01:37:00,451 --> 01:37:04,811
river into a ditch to a farm. I know it

1443
01:37:04,811 --> 01:37:07,771
sounds very simple and I didn't need to state that,

1444
01:37:07,771 --> 01:37:09,851
but at the same time, well, how does that happen?

1445
01:37:10,272 --> 01:37:14,411
There are structures off of the river that are controlled

1446
01:37:15,232 --> 01:37:17,931
to release a certain amount of water into an irrigation

1447
01:37:18,032 --> 01:37:21,371
ditch. And I'll get into how this and why this

1448
01:37:21,411 --> 01:37:24,571
happens. But, um, and then those ditches we can refer

1449
01:37:24,611 --> 01:37:28,811
to as main ditches, um, those stitches then transport water

1450
01:37:28,912 --> 01:37:34,331
to lateral ditches, which again, have a structure in between

1451
01:37:34,352 --> 01:37:38,011
the ditch in the lateral ditch that's controlled. So a

1452
01:37:38,011 --> 01:37:40,891
certain amount of water is delivered to through those lateral

1453
01:37:40,912 --> 01:37:44,571
ditches, which then goes to the farms. So, um, you

1454
01:37:44,571 --> 01:37:49,011
know, as I was, um, going through this presentation, I

1455
01:37:49,011 --> 01:37:50,811
wanted to make sure that that's kind of out there

1456
01:37:50,992 --> 01:37:53,291
and people understand that just as a, as a basis

1457
01:37:53,291 --> 01:37:59,831
of understanding, but water rights overview. A career's, you know,

1458
01:38:00,272 --> 01:38:03,691
information into just a couple of minutes, but, um, the

1459
01:38:03,872 --> 01:38:08,091
prior appropriation doctrine is the law of the land when

1460
01:38:08,091 --> 01:38:11,371
it comes to water rights in Colorado, which essentially is

1461
01:38:11,411 --> 01:38:14,731
first in time, first and right. So the oldest or

1462
01:38:14,992 --> 01:38:19,600
more senior water rights will receive their water first. And

1463
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:23,120
then the next most senior, the next oldest water right

1464
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:25,760
is able to take what they are decreed. They're decreed

1465
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:28,480
amount of water. And then it goes down the lines,

1466
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:31,920
a junior water rates. Um, being the most recent water

1467
01:38:32,021 --> 01:38:35,760
rights, they can receive their water next. Um, and again,

1468
01:38:35,781 --> 01:38:40,320
this presentation is going to focus on agriculture. Um, and

1469
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:44,000
our program. So the other considerations in the how that

1470
01:38:44,741 --> 01:38:48,720
administration of the water rights work. But a generalization of

1471
01:38:48,901 --> 01:38:55,440
how things work. Um, water rights, uh, do have conditions,

1472
01:38:55,440 --> 01:38:58,400
those being the time of when it was first put

1473
01:38:58,421 --> 01:39:01,920
the beneficial use. So in time, you know, around here

1474
01:39:02,341 --> 01:39:06,995
1860s is when we have the oldest senior rights. Um,

1475
01:39:07,736 --> 01:39:10,275
that's a condition of that water, right? How old that

1476
01:39:10,275 --> 01:39:12,975
water right is. The use of the water right, um,

1477
01:39:13,016 --> 01:39:15,875
we're going to focus on agricultural use, but there's also

1478
01:39:15,896 --> 01:39:21,395
domestic use commercial uses. Um, industrial use other types of

1479
01:39:21,416 --> 01:39:26,275
uses as well. Um, there's the rate or the volume

1480
01:39:26,296 --> 01:39:30,355
of a water right. So that would be, um, typically

1481
01:39:30,376 --> 01:39:33,555
referred to as CFS cubic feet per second is the

1482
01:39:33,576 --> 01:39:35,715
rate at which a water right can be diverted from

1483
01:39:35,736 --> 01:39:40,915
the river. And also a volume would be an acre

1484
01:39:40,936 --> 01:39:44,515
foot, which is typically referred to when you're speaking about

1485
01:39:44,696 --> 01:39:48,515
reservoirs. But an acre foot is about a football field

1486
01:39:48,776 --> 01:39:50,915
without the end zones covered in a foot of water.

1487
01:39:53,401 --> 01:39:57,140
So those are what makes up water rights. Direct flow

1488
01:39:57,180 --> 01:39:59,860
rights and storage rights are the main ones that we,

1489
01:39:59,860 --> 01:40:03,860
um, we have, um, direct flow rights are important during

1490
01:40:04,201 --> 01:40:09,380
drought because they are used immediately. So if your senior,

1491
01:40:09,380 --> 01:40:12,340
if you're ditch, you're a water rate is in priority.

1492
01:40:12,340 --> 01:40:14,420
Then you get to use that water right as it's

1493
01:40:14,460 --> 01:40:16,660
coming by your head gate. So you got to divert

1494
01:40:16,660 --> 01:40:18,580
it when you can take it. When it's legal and

1495
01:40:18,601 --> 01:40:22,993
physically available. Um, so that's important during drought, you need

1496
01:40:22,993 --> 01:40:25,393
to be able to act fast on when, when you

1497
01:40:25,393 --> 01:40:27,073
could take that water because it's going to go by

1498
01:40:27,494 --> 01:40:29,473
and somebody else is going to need it as well.

1499
01:40:29,473 --> 01:40:35,153
So, um, the state administers water rights. So they have,

1500
01:40:35,153 --> 01:40:38,673
um, within the major basins and the sub basins within

1501
01:40:38,713 --> 01:40:42,513
the state, their water commissioners who essentially work with ditch

1502
01:40:42,553 --> 01:40:46,493
companies, um, and I'll talk about ditch companies next, but

1503
01:40:46,614 --> 01:40:51,453
on how water is delivered to who and when, um,

1504
01:40:51,574 --> 01:40:55,953
so they, the water commissioners really, um, coordinate with the

1505
01:40:56,054 --> 01:40:59,393
ditch companies on a daily basis to say who's the

1506
01:40:59,494 --> 01:41:01,953
senior rights. You're going to get your water, how much

1507
01:41:02,054 --> 01:41:05,873
do you need? Very difficult job in a system that's

1508
01:41:05,873 --> 01:41:12,513
constantly changing based on whether conditions groundwater conditions, diversions, inflows.

1509
01:41:12,513 --> 01:41:15,053
It's very, it's very complicated, but they do it. Um,

1510
01:41:15,053 --> 01:41:18,993
so yeah, the state are the ones are the ones

1511
01:41:19,094 --> 01:41:22,593
responsible for how rivers in the water rights are managed

1512
01:41:23,334 --> 01:41:27,313
on a daily basis based on the prior appropriation system.

1513
01:41:29,346 --> 01:41:34,205
Quickly on ditch companies and the ownership of water rights.

1514
01:41:34,205 --> 01:41:39,805
Ditch companies manage the water rights. And because farming's very

1515
01:41:39,845 --> 01:41:43,725
old practice, they have evolved in different ways. So an

1516
01:41:43,725 --> 01:41:47,965
incorporated ditch company is a very formal, um, company that's

1517
01:41:48,066 --> 01:41:51,005
filed with the state. They have it elected board of

1518
01:41:51,266 --> 01:41:57,218
shareholders. Um, who represent all shareholders and decisions made for

1519
01:41:57,239 --> 01:42:00,818
the ditch company. Um, they meet regularly the board will

1520
01:42:00,839 --> 01:42:06,258
meet regularly. They, uh, make assessments to the shareholders. Shareholders

1521
01:42:06,279 --> 01:42:08,898
are the owners of the water right for a ditch

1522
01:42:08,919 --> 01:42:13,298
company incorporated ditch company. So they actually issue stock certificates

1523
01:42:13,338 --> 01:42:16,338
to water rates holders and say, if you have 10

1524
01:42:16,338 --> 01:42:20,258
shares of our ditch, then you're entitled to a proportion

1525
01:42:20,359 --> 01:42:23,938
and a model of water for our water right represented

1526
01:42:23,978 --> 01:42:29,626
by 10 shares. Um, so the incorporated ditch companies are,

1527
01:42:29,626 --> 01:42:33,146
they have bylaws. They have regular meetings. They have elected

1528
01:42:33,186 --> 01:42:37,386
board of directors. And so it's, it's a very formal

1529
01:42:37,407 --> 01:42:42,026
process. Unincorporated ditch companies are more wild west. It was

1530
01:42:42,066 --> 01:42:45,626
when we first started to settle and group of neighbors

1531
01:42:45,626 --> 01:42:48,826
said, Hey, we need some water on our farms. They

1532
01:42:48,826 --> 01:42:51,146
filed for a water right. And they just work together.

1533
01:42:52,380 --> 01:42:55,079
Basically to deliver water where it needs to be and

1534
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:57,959
when. So there is an aboard. There isn't anyone that's

1535
01:42:57,980 --> 01:43:00,999
on staff that helps turn the head gates to really

1536
01:43:01,020 --> 01:43:03,159
use water from the river into the ditches and things

1537
01:43:03,159 --> 01:43:06,359
like that. So that's an important thing to rememora is

1538
01:43:06,359 --> 01:43:09,319
that some ditches are very well organized and others are

1539
01:43:10,140 --> 01:43:16,341
not unorganized, but they're not more informal. And the other

1540
01:43:16,381 --> 01:43:19,621
thing here too is that ditch writers, they are the

1541
01:43:19,621 --> 01:43:23,461
person that's hired by a ditch company to basically operate

1542
01:43:23,722 --> 01:43:27,941
and maintain the ditch. So the ditch company representatives will

1543
01:43:27,962 --> 01:43:32,181
hire somebody to go out on a daily basis, hear

1544
01:43:32,181 --> 01:43:36,101
from farmers, how much water they need, communicate with the

1545
01:43:36,122 --> 01:43:38,981
state on when they can take water and then make

1546
01:43:39,002 --> 01:43:41,781
decisions on when to turn the head gate to make

1547
01:43:41,802 --> 01:43:46,481
releases and diversions. Um, to get the farmers that are

1548
01:43:46,481 --> 01:43:55,884
water. So that's kind of general information on water rights.

1549
01:43:55,884 --> 01:44:00,284
Boulder County's agwater program. I'd like to speak about next.

1550
01:44:00,284 --> 01:44:05,164
So we have 15, over 15, 000 acres of land

1551
01:44:05,265 --> 01:44:08,728
that we irrigate and we lease to tenant farmers. Um,

1552
01:44:10,029 --> 01:44:15,048
and, um, that's across the Boulder Creek Basin as well

1553
01:44:15,088 --> 01:44:18,728
as St. Marine Basin. So all throughout the front range

1554
01:44:18,909 --> 01:44:23,048
of a Boulder County, we own interest in over 160

1555
01:44:23,088 --> 01:44:27,608
different water rates. Um, those are direct flow rights like

1556
01:44:27,608 --> 01:44:31,928
we talked about storage as well as wells, springs, slews.

1557
01:44:33,759 --> 01:44:36,916
Other sources of water. Yes. This is John Wright Posek.

1558
01:44:36,956 --> 01:44:41,149
Are you talking about parks and open space. Water rights

1559
01:44:41,170 --> 01:44:44,909
or the whole County? Just owned by Parks and OpenSpace.

1560
01:44:45,250 --> 01:44:48,669
So what will happen is our program in the past

1561
01:44:49,650 --> 01:44:53,629
and still today purchases a farm. If a fireman wants

1562
01:44:53,669 --> 01:44:58,429
to sell, we'll buy the water that's historically irrigated that

1563
01:44:58,469 --> 01:45:02,309
land. And that's part of that 160 different types of

1564
01:45:03,170 --> 01:45:07,389
15, 000 was the whole County or just stuff. Yep.

1565
01:45:07,429 --> 01:45:09,549
You guys. Just our program is what we're speaking to.

1566
01:45:10,864 --> 01:45:14,603
Um, so we have about 60 tech farmers, um, that

1567
01:45:14,864 --> 01:45:18,763
have over 100 leases. So in those leases are included,

1568
01:45:18,763 --> 01:45:22,203
the water rates that we own, the 160 or so,

1569
01:45:22,203 --> 01:45:25,003
um, that they are able to use to irrigate that

1570
01:45:25,043 --> 01:45:30,363
land that they lease. Um, currently the, the water group

1571
01:45:30,544 --> 01:45:35,123
in Vanessa sit on, uh, 37 different ditch boards. So

1572
01:45:35,123 --> 01:45:41,803
that's really how we County Parks and OpenSpace lead wanting

1573
01:45:41,803 --> 01:45:45,634
management is through representation of our shares. As well as

1574
01:45:45,674 --> 01:45:50,754
other shareholders, um, on those ditch boards. So these are,

1575
01:45:50,754 --> 01:45:56,034
you know, weeks and evening meetings, these are 37s alive.

1576
01:45:56,055 --> 01:45:57,714
There's a thing about the meetings that you'd have to

1577
01:45:57,714 --> 01:45:59,954
go to. And there's a lot of things that come

1578
01:45:59,975 --> 01:46:03,874
up, um, think about the development that's happening and crossing

1579
01:46:03,914 --> 01:46:11,074
agreements and crossings of irrigation ditches. Very complicated analysis and

1580
01:46:11,074 --> 01:46:14,114
review that needs to be done, both legal and engineering,

1581
01:46:14,114 --> 01:46:16,914
as well as the practicality of things. Um, so that's

1582
01:46:17,015 --> 01:46:20,174
a, that's really an important part of my job. And

1583
01:46:20,174 --> 01:46:23,874
Vanessa's job is representing the county's interest as well as

1584
01:46:24,055 --> 01:46:27,714
all shareholders in those ditch companies on those board positions.

1585
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:32,458
Um, and other part, I'll just skip ahead real quick.

1586
01:46:32,458 --> 01:46:36,618
The wildfire mitigation program is another way that the county

1587
01:46:36,879 --> 01:46:41,658
leads in manner of our water rights. So, um, this

1588
01:46:41,839 --> 01:46:45,958
legislation was passed a few years ago in this, um,

1589
01:46:46,159 --> 01:46:52,218
is to remove fire hazard and fuel loads along ditch

1590
01:46:52,218 --> 01:46:57,018
corridors. So that's the purpose of that, um, that funding.

1591
01:46:57,018 --> 01:47:01,658
But it does provide a benefit to the ditch companies

1592
01:47:01,698 --> 01:47:05,578
that have, that move water through those ditches. They're the

1593
01:47:05,578 --> 01:47:08,378
ones that are managing those stitches. So they have the

1594
01:47:08,378 --> 01:47:11,658
right to remove trees, placed those trees on the, within

1595
01:47:11,658 --> 01:47:14,538
the easement of the ditch program can go and remove

1596
01:47:14,578 --> 01:47:18,758
those debris piles as well as standing in life. Um,

1597
01:47:19,599 --> 01:47:23,338
trees. But for the purpose of fire mitigation, but it

1598
01:47:23,378 --> 01:47:31,166
does serve a purpose of water conveyance as well. Um,

1599
01:47:31,507 --> 01:47:35,566
and just quickly on the tenant responsibilities too. There's a

1600
01:47:35,606 --> 01:47:38,926
separation of responsibility when it comes to delivery of water

1601
01:47:38,947 --> 01:47:43,466
to the farm. Our farmers know best on how, um,

1602
01:47:43,667 --> 01:47:47,006
to operate those farms. And so the, the point at

1603
01:47:47,006 --> 01:47:50,846
which generally say the tenants responsibility when it comes to

1604
01:47:50,867 --> 01:47:54,766
water is once water leaves the lateral ditch and is

1605
01:47:54,806 --> 01:47:56,846
turned on through a turned through a head gate onto

1606
01:47:56,947 --> 01:47:59,806
a farm. So that's when the, the farmer really needs

1607
01:47:59,846 --> 01:48:02,926
to know, what am I going to grow? When am

1608
01:48:02,926 --> 01:48:06,046
I going to grow it? Um, which land do I

1609
01:48:06,046 --> 01:48:08,366
want to follow this year? Things like that. The decisions

1610
01:48:08,387 --> 01:48:11,726
are made by the farmer because they, they know best.

1611
01:48:11,726 --> 01:48:14,126
Um, so yeah, the, the county can help with certain

1612
01:48:14,227 --> 01:48:16,926
things when we can. We've got heavy equipment. We've got

1613
01:48:17,347 --> 01:48:20,206
staff, things like that come up. And it's just the

1614
01:48:20,246 --> 01:48:25,726
nature of farming that there's, um, coordination and partnerships there.

1615
01:48:25,726 --> 01:48:27,886
Um, but at some point there's that we had to

1616
01:48:27,886 --> 01:48:29,806
kind of be able to say, okay, you're responsible for

1617
01:48:29,806 --> 01:48:38,678
that. We're responsible for this. And so this was just

1618
01:48:38,718 --> 01:48:40,998
a quick discussion on and maybe I have a covered

1619
01:48:41,019 --> 01:48:46,118
some of it, but how water moves through the system,

1620
01:48:46,118 --> 01:48:50,358
uh, legally and physically. Um, so on a given day

1621
01:48:50,539 --> 01:48:52,438
like tomorrow, there's going to be a certain amount of

1622
01:48:52,478 --> 01:48:56,418
water in the river, say St. Verain Creek. And, um,

1623
01:48:57,099 --> 01:49:01,638
the water commissioners in charge of administering, saving Creek will

1624
01:49:01,638 --> 01:49:05,438
say, okay, there's this much water. I know based on

1625
01:49:05,579 --> 01:49:11,398
conversations with Titch companies representatives that all these ditches want

1626
01:49:11,419 --> 01:49:14,198
their water, that person, the water commissioner needs to make

1627
01:49:14,219 --> 01:49:17,638
a decision, okay, I need to set a call, which

1628
01:49:17,638 --> 01:49:20,998
is the senior right that limits the junior rights from

1629
01:49:21,179 --> 01:49:25,478
diverting. Um, and then the water commissioner will do that.

1630
01:49:25,478 --> 01:49:29,238
Um, the ditch companies coordinate internally and say, well, how

1631
01:49:29,238 --> 01:49:32,438
much water do we need? What farmers want their water

1632
01:49:32,459 --> 01:49:35,478
today? They might not all want them. Maybe one's on

1633
01:49:35,478 --> 01:49:38,758
vacation. You know, when whatever reason they need to coordinate

1634
01:49:38,859 --> 01:49:43,111
to say we need this much water. Water commissioner, when

1635
01:49:43,111 --> 01:49:45,351
we're in priority, when we're the senior call, can we

1636
01:49:45,351 --> 01:49:51,443
have it. Um, and then especially what we saw this

1637
01:49:51,443 --> 01:49:56,483
year is water lost to dry soil, which we refer

1638
01:49:56,504 --> 01:50:00,083
to shrink. Um, you know, it's, it's very difficult to

1639
01:50:00,904 --> 01:50:03,923
deliver a certain amount of water not knowing how much

1640
01:50:03,944 --> 01:50:06,483
is actually going to reach the beginning of the ditch

1641
01:50:06,664 --> 01:50:09,603
compared to the end of the ditch, if at all.

1642
01:50:09,603 --> 01:50:12,723
So, um, in a drought year that is really what

1643
01:50:12,763 --> 01:50:17,523
we're seeing this year is that increased coordination between water

1644
01:50:17,544 --> 01:50:20,483
users of a ditch to make sure that they are

1645
01:50:20,523 --> 01:50:25,123
understanding what water is available and when and how they

1646
01:50:25,123 --> 01:50:28,383
can get it to their, their head gain. So, um,

1647
01:50:28,424 --> 01:50:31,283
that's the real difficult thing that I think is a

1648
01:50:31,323 --> 01:50:34,883
kind of trial - eye fire type of experience that

1649
01:50:34,923 --> 01:50:37,523
you need to be able to say, yeah, we might

1650
01:50:37,563 --> 01:50:40,563
lose all of our water this year to shrink and

1651
01:50:40,563 --> 01:50:42,563
not even receive any of it. And we have seen

1652
01:50:42,664 --> 01:50:47,363
ditches that have received no water this year and not

1653
01:50:47,403 --> 01:50:50,083
do just do the shrink, but because of limited water

1654
01:50:50,184 --> 01:50:57,971
supply. Trey Baker Posack. On the subject of shrink. First

1655
01:50:57,971 --> 01:51:02,851
question is evaporation, a consideration from the surface of the

1656
01:51:02,851 --> 01:51:10,468
water. No, not evaporation, but evapotranspiration, water use by trees

1657
01:51:11,289 --> 01:51:15,588
that line the ditches. It's a consideration. Okay. It's, it's

1658
01:51:15,588 --> 01:51:21,348
not quantified. It's not, I would say considered in like

1659
01:51:21,369 --> 01:51:24,868
a, an allotment of water that needs to be delivered.

1660
01:51:24,868 --> 01:51:26,708
Like, Hey, these Cottonwoods are going to take this much

1661
01:51:26,809 --> 01:51:30,688
water, but it is a concern of ditch companies, the

1662
01:51:30,688 --> 01:51:35,968
water lost, um, to trees, to evapotranspiration. Thank you. And

1663
01:51:36,249 --> 01:51:41,908
second question, do farmers or ditch companies? Do they have

1664
01:51:42,409 --> 01:51:50,885
a duty to reduce or eliminate shrink. Um, pipes have

1665
01:51:50,885 --> 01:51:56,759
been brought up. Uh, concrete lined ditches are sometimes discussed.

1666
01:51:57,116 --> 01:52:00,375
Um, and it's a, it's kind of a, it's a

1667
01:52:00,375 --> 01:52:04,295
complicated thing because trees grow and could destroy the concrete

1668
01:52:04,335 --> 01:52:07,495
easily or the maintenance that's required for some of those

1669
01:52:07,495 --> 01:52:13,335
things. The cost that's included, um, a pipe that's buried

1670
01:52:13,356 --> 01:52:16,295
underground that when it fails, there's a huge expense to

1671
01:52:16,295 --> 01:52:18,535
try to fix that. Things like that. So these open

1672
01:52:18,556 --> 01:52:23,255
ditches, you know, I think just in general practice, I'm

1673
01:52:23,255 --> 01:52:26,295
the most efficient in economical way to still move water.

1674
01:52:27,775 --> 01:52:34,987
Okay. Thank you. Uh, so I'm going to kind of

1675
01:52:34,987 --> 01:52:37,507
switch gears to, um, drought. And if I left any

1676
01:52:37,547 --> 01:52:41,507
time, then Vanessa's going to take over, but this, this

1677
01:52:41,547 --> 01:52:44,467
is just a quick figure, which kind of emphasizes that

1678
01:52:45,048 --> 01:52:47,747
ditches are all around us. You know, they, they go

1679
01:52:47,787 --> 01:52:53,907
through municipal, the municipalities. They are in the rural areas.

1680
01:52:53,907 --> 01:52:57,667
Um, their storage facilities that we derive by that are,

1681
01:52:57,667 --> 01:53:01,267
you know, working hard in terms of making releases for,

1682
01:53:01,307 --> 01:53:05,347
for irrigation use. And, um, all the things that are

1683
01:53:05,387 --> 01:53:08,467
going on on that map that you don't see interfere

1684
01:53:08,808 --> 01:53:12,047
with operations of a ditch sometimes. And so it's, um,

1685
01:53:12,808 --> 01:53:15,347
it's, it's, there's a lot that's happening behind the scenes

1686
01:53:15,528 --> 01:53:18,687
when it comes to moving water from a creek, um,

1687
01:53:18,728 --> 01:53:21,747
to the farm. And this is just showing South Boulder

1688
01:53:21,787 --> 01:53:24,067
Creek, which is on the left side of the screen,

1689
01:53:24,107 --> 01:53:27,427
running, running, uh, and then all the ditches in this

1690
01:53:27,467 --> 01:53:29,907
area that are diverting from that just right at the

1691
01:53:29,947 --> 01:53:35,322
mouth of L to O Canyon. Um, just a few,

1692
01:53:35,322 --> 01:53:38,762
um, visuals. This is a river head gate. Um, so

1693
01:53:39,503 --> 01:53:43,962
the river is in the background and the ditch is

1694
01:53:43,983 --> 01:53:47,882
in the more of the foreground. The wheel, you would

1695
01:53:47,882 --> 01:53:51,482
turn that. And I'm sorry, if this is really easy

1696
01:53:51,583 --> 01:53:55,642
to understand, but anyways, um, the wheel, you turn that,

1697
01:53:55,642 --> 01:53:58,122
it's on a stem, a threaded stem. And it raises

1698
01:53:58,223 --> 01:54:02,602
that gate a certain amount and it will divert a

1699
01:54:02,642 --> 01:54:05,718
certain amount of water into the ditch. It's then measured

1700
01:54:06,459 --> 01:54:10,438
typically, we hope, you know, at the, at the beginning

1701
01:54:10,459 --> 01:54:12,998
of the ditch, which is then reported to the state

1702
01:54:13,099 --> 01:54:16,038
to say, Hey, okay, we are diverting our five cubic

1703
01:54:16,078 --> 01:54:18,438
feet per second today. And here it is. And then

1704
01:54:18,459 --> 01:54:25,210
that's the ditch moving into the background. Drought. So this

1705
01:54:25,951 --> 01:54:30,810
is a snow tail site graph, uh, for Boulder Creek

1706
01:54:30,810 --> 01:54:37,050
Basin. Snowtail sites are individual sites around the United States

1707
01:54:38,671 --> 01:54:42,730
that measure the amount of water in snow. So this

1708
01:54:42,831 --> 01:54:47,290
actually has a pillow that's inflatable that has, that measures

1709
01:54:47,471 --> 01:54:51,170
weight. They also measure the depth of the snow. So

1710
01:54:51,311 --> 01:54:54,170
what this is showing us is water in snow over

1711
01:54:54,271 --> 01:54:57,850
the year on the far left X axis is October

1712
01:54:57,951 --> 01:55:01,690
1st. And then moving to recent. And on the Y

1713
01:55:01,711 --> 01:55:05,130
axis, um, the snow water equivalent, the amount of water

1714
01:55:05,631 --> 01:55:10,887
in snow in inches. Um, the black line is 2026.

1715
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:16,099
So, you know, we can really see we were, we

1716
01:55:16,139 --> 01:55:20,979
started bad. Uh, early winter. And then we, we, we

1717
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:23,859
stayed pretty bad, but not as bad as that was

1718
01:55:23,899 --> 01:55:27,406
1981. And then, you know, just a couple of points

1719
01:55:27,827 --> 01:55:33,006
to, to notice the black line dips around March 1st,

1720
01:55:33,006 --> 01:55:36,126
or just after March 1st, really hot temperatures lost snow

1721
01:55:36,147 --> 01:55:41,246
pack. That relates to lost runoff earlier than when we

1722
01:55:41,286 --> 01:55:45,646
typically would see it. So, um, those, you know, this,

1723
01:55:45,646 --> 01:55:49,166
that's what we're seeing here is those times when the,

1724
01:55:49,206 --> 01:55:53,486
the snowpack falls is lost irrigation water. That's how I

1725
01:55:53,526 --> 01:55:56,526
see it. Um, you know, it could be stored, could

1726
01:55:56,526 --> 01:55:59,466
be used for irrigation, different places, but it's, you know,

1727
01:55:59,667 --> 01:56:04,126
in the front range, it's immediate use basically. And then,

1728
01:56:04,126 --> 01:56:05,886
you know, you can see some other times where we

1729
01:56:05,926 --> 01:56:09,726
had wet weather, built the snow pack. And then hot

1730
01:56:09,827 --> 01:56:13,326
water weather again lost it. And then at the, towards

1731
01:56:13,326 --> 01:56:17,006
the right, the line drops out. No more snow pack.

1732
01:56:17,006 --> 01:56:20,366
So essentially, you know, weeks earlier than typical, we have

1733
01:56:20,406 --> 01:56:24,333
no more snow pack at this site. This is Boulder

1734
01:56:24,514 --> 01:56:27,693
Creek in Boulder. This is only a 30 day view

1735
01:56:28,274 --> 01:56:30,973
most recent 30 days. Um, but what you're seeing in

1736
01:56:31,013 --> 01:56:34,093
the blue line is current conditions. You know, now at

1737
01:56:34,133 --> 01:56:38,233
around 50 feet per second in the black line, uh,

1738
01:56:38,233 --> 01:56:44,690
near the top is over 250 300 CFS. So six

1739
01:56:44,791 --> 01:56:46,290
of the amount of water that we have in Boulder

1740
01:56:46,391 --> 01:56:51,139
Creek today. Christine Johnson, Possette. Are you saying that the

1741
01:56:51,560 --> 01:57:00,389
dashed line is normal average average. And then this is

1742
01:57:00,810 --> 01:57:04,389
Sane Verain Basin, same types of graph. Really evident here

1743
01:57:04,570 --> 01:57:09,409
to see the impacts of hot weather where, you know,

1744
01:57:09,530 --> 01:57:14,869
the red line is, you know, the, the median lows

1745
01:57:16,010 --> 01:57:19,109
is still building at least until March. You're still accumulating

1746
01:57:19,370 --> 01:57:23,429
some type of snow pack. We were losing snow pack

1747
01:57:23,770 --> 01:57:27,809
in early March. And we didn't get any back. Um,

1748
01:57:27,809 --> 01:57:31,349
so, you know, the same brain really a rough story

1749
01:57:31,389 --> 01:57:37,749
as well in a stream flow gauge, um, near hygiene

1750
01:57:38,250 --> 01:57:42,769
shows, you know, minimal flows currently when we, you know,

1751
01:57:42,769 --> 01:57:47,678
typically would like to see over 150 CFS. So yeah,

1752
01:57:48,259 --> 01:57:51,358
it's the drought is real. It's, um, you know, these

1753
01:57:51,398 --> 01:57:54,798
data are just a depiction, but what we're hearing from

1754
01:57:54,979 --> 01:57:59,678
farmers is the real stress of, uh, of the situation.

1755
01:57:59,678 --> 01:58:08,045
And Vanessa's going to talk next about that. Good evening.

1756
01:58:08,045 --> 01:58:13,645
Poseck Vanessa McCracken. Agan water resources division manager. Thanks, Darren.

1757
01:58:13,645 --> 01:58:16,985
So I wanted to back up just a little bit

1758
01:58:17,266 --> 01:58:21,885
geographically and show how widespread the impact of drought is.

1759
01:58:21,885 --> 01:58:23,965
This is not just a Boulder County problem. This is

1760
01:58:23,965 --> 01:58:27,485
not just a Colorado problem. This is a really west

1761
01:58:27,666 --> 01:58:31,565
wide situation. And you can see here our neighbors, Nebraska

1762
01:58:31,586 --> 01:58:36,525
and Wyoming are in really rough shape as well, which,

1763
01:58:36,525 --> 01:58:38,685
um, I'll talk about in a minute, but doesn't help

1764
01:58:38,725 --> 01:58:44,568
us here either. So what are the ag impacts? They

1765
01:58:44,568 --> 01:58:49,208
really are extreme for everyone. Um, on June 4th, Governor

1766
01:58:49,229 --> 01:58:54,088
Polis did activate that phase three drought response plan statewide

1767
01:58:54,269 --> 01:58:58,968
drought emergency declaration. So what that really means is the

1768
01:58:59,069 --> 01:59:03,848
governor's task forces meet more regularly update data more regularly.

1769
01:59:03,869 --> 01:59:07,608
There's potential for emergency funding and a possible federal disaster

1770
01:59:07,648 --> 01:59:14,088
declaration impending. And like statewide, it is the lowest snowpack

1771
01:59:14,088 --> 01:59:18,808
on record statewide here on June 19. This statewide snowpack

1772
01:59:18,808 --> 01:59:24,328
was at 15 percent of median. So it's, it's a

1773
01:59:24,349 --> 01:59:29,528
widespread issue here. Here in Boulder County, as Darren mentioned,

1774
01:59:29,528 --> 01:59:32,808
many of the junior ditches, no water at all or

1775
01:59:32,808 --> 01:59:36,186
as little as one day for the season. That translates

1776
01:59:36,527 --> 01:59:39,386
both South Boulder Canyon and Davidson ditch are both on

1777
01:59:39,807 --> 01:59:42,826
Boulder Creek. And I just wanted to give you some

1778
01:59:42,866 --> 01:59:45,946
numbers for how that translates on the farm. So in

1779
01:59:45,986 --> 01:59:49,546
2026, South Boulder Canyon had so far and probably won't

1780
01:59:49,586 --> 01:59:52,546
have more seven days of, of water, um, compared to

1781
01:59:52,687 --> 01:59:56,106
33 days last year in similar story on the Davidson

1782
01:59:56,127 --> 01:59:59,386
ditch. So four days this year compared to 34 days

1783
01:59:59,807 --> 02:00:05,659
in 2025. So these impacts are really extreme. So what

1784
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:10,949
does that mean here. Survival mode is what our producers

1785
02:00:10,949 --> 02:00:14,929
are in at this point at every scale. Everyone has

1786
02:00:14,929 --> 02:00:19,909
reduced their planted acres. Um, more specifically small grain crops

1787
02:00:20,410 --> 02:00:23,269
typically wheat and barley. I think there will be very,

1788
02:00:23,309 --> 02:00:27,589
very little actually harvested for grain this year. Most that

1789
02:00:27,589 --> 02:00:30,469
was planted has already been cut and bailed for silage

1790
02:00:31,130 --> 02:00:34,549
potentially be grazed off or tilled under. The germination was

1791
02:00:34,570 --> 02:00:37,909
so poor with the low moisture in the all winter

1792
02:00:38,250 --> 02:00:41,909
that there's just nothing there worth harvesting as a grain.

1793
02:00:41,909 --> 02:00:44,389
Hey crops are really seeing the effects, both alfalfa and

1794
02:00:44,429 --> 02:00:48,389
grass. Our producers are reporting about 30 to 40 percent

1795
02:00:48,429 --> 02:00:51,589
of average yields on their first cutting, second and third

1796
02:00:51,610 --> 02:00:55,329
cuttings to be determined. We did have a nice, you

1797
02:00:55,329 --> 02:00:57,429
know, we've had a couple nice showers, but in no

1798
02:00:57,429 --> 02:01:01,509
way will that make up for the reduced irrigation season,

1799
02:01:01,509 --> 02:01:04,069
um, in poor quality as well, just based on the

1800
02:01:04,570 --> 02:01:08,449
hot dry weather. Corn and sugar beets, out there. Um,

1801
02:01:08,449 --> 02:01:12,935
they are drought stressed. A lot of this water is

1802
02:01:12,935 --> 02:01:15,975
going to be used early season. So there's some holding

1803
02:01:16,076 --> 02:01:18,295
on to hope for some rain, but we will see

1804
02:01:18,316 --> 02:01:22,895
how that plays out. Um, market farms are impacted. Similar

1805
02:01:22,996 --> 02:01:26,815
link to all the others. And I think an additional,

1806
02:01:26,815 --> 02:01:29,535
uh, impact for market farms is kind of that regional

1807
02:01:29,556 --> 02:01:32,895
impact where a lot of our market farms also sell

1808
02:01:32,916 --> 02:01:36,335
fruit that typically comes from the western slope. And if,

1809
02:01:36,375 --> 02:01:38,335
if I need to say it out loud, the Western

1810
02:01:38,356 --> 02:01:43,615
slope fruit harvest will be extremely reduced this year as

1811
02:01:43,615 --> 02:01:47,535
well. Mostly from temperature extremes, um, during the flowering season

1812
02:01:47,876 --> 02:01:51,455
on the Western slope as well. It's not just the

1813
02:01:51,495 --> 02:01:54,575
crop producers. It's the livestock producers as well. So livestock

1814
02:01:54,575 --> 02:01:58,415
producers dais horse operations. Anyone that requires forage for their

1815
02:01:58,455 --> 02:02:02,575
animals. Um, there's not enough forage anywhere. There's not additional

1816
02:02:02,836 --> 02:02:06,175
pasture to be found on top of that places that

1817
02:02:06,215 --> 02:02:10,375
had reliable stock water forever are no longer reliable. So

1818
02:02:10,436 --> 02:02:12,575
ditches aren't running that used to be used for stock

1819
02:02:12,596 --> 02:02:17,615
water small ponds and things that were reliable in the

1820
02:02:17,615 --> 02:02:20,895
past, our dry this year, uh, I already spoke about

1821
02:02:20,916 --> 02:02:24,335
the regional impacts, but the additional piece of information there

1822
02:02:24,836 --> 02:02:29,040
is the idea that people can truck in. Forage for

1823
02:02:29,080 --> 02:02:33,040
their animals is not really financially viable. It's freight prices

1824
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:36,560
are extremely high. So it's, it's the cost is just

1825
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:39,760
very high to be able to mitigate some of these

1826
02:02:40,021 --> 02:02:42,720
drought impacts. And it's not just egg, right? It's the

1827
02:02:42,741 --> 02:02:46,720
wildlife and it's the ecological impacts. All the animals don't

1828
02:02:46,741 --> 02:02:49,360
have the forage that they are used to. There's extremely

1829
02:02:49,541 --> 02:02:51,680
low flows in the river. That picture on the bottom

1830
02:02:51,861 --> 02:02:54,960
right is actually left - hand creek last Friday, about

1831
02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:56,800
a half a mile east of 63rd. And it was

1832
02:02:57,301 --> 02:03:01,440
barely a trickle. So there is not much water to

1833
02:03:01,461 --> 02:03:08,114
be had out there. What can't we do, unfortunately, we

1834
02:03:08,114 --> 02:03:11,674
can't make more water, you know, as the County government,

1835
02:03:11,674 --> 02:03:15,074
we are constrained by our budgets, by our timing, by

1836
02:03:15,074 --> 02:03:18,854
the scale of the problem, um, it is large. But

1837
02:03:18,975 --> 02:03:22,314
what can we do? I think the number one thing

1838
02:03:22,354 --> 02:03:24,394
we can do that Darren alluded to is we can

1839
02:03:24,394 --> 02:03:27,594
really acknowledge the challenge with our producers. These are really

1840
02:03:27,615 --> 02:03:31,994
tough times. And to be able to listen and understand

1841
02:03:32,495 --> 02:03:35,834
and be there in partnership with them, knowing that this

1842
02:03:36,975 --> 02:03:40,234
is a survival year. I think is one of, it's

1843
02:03:40,234 --> 02:03:42,954
a small thing, but it's important. It's that community piece

1844
02:03:42,975 --> 02:03:46,234
that gets people through the tough times. And so we

1845
02:03:46,274 --> 02:03:48,794
really try to act as partners in that way with

1846
02:03:48,834 --> 02:03:53,354
our producers. And at Parks and OpenSpace, there are things

1847
02:03:53,354 --> 02:03:56,774
that we're talking about. And we can try to have

1848
02:03:57,195 --> 02:04:01,574
some positive impacts on what we can do for a

1849
02:04:01,574 --> 02:04:04,214
producers. But all those things come with challenges. And so

1850
02:04:04,235 --> 02:04:06,774
we're talking through some of those things, but at this

1851
02:04:06,774 --> 02:04:12,134
point, the problem is big. I've like to think that

1852
02:04:12,395 --> 02:04:15,574
in Boulder County, like we've done wildfire and we've done

1853
02:04:15,835 --> 02:04:19,414
flood and, you know, we'll get through the drought too.

1854
02:04:19,414 --> 02:04:22,275
So. That's the last slide so we can open it

1855
02:04:22,315 --> 02:04:26,675
up to questions. Darren Vanessa, thank you so very much.

1856
02:04:26,675 --> 02:04:30,766
Um, opening up post - heck in the room. Lauren.

1857
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:35,459
Guys, this is such a good presentation. And I genuinely

1858
02:04:35,560 --> 02:04:38,179
feel, oh, sorry, Lauren Kelso, I'm going to remember that

1859
02:04:38,219 --> 02:04:42,579
one of these times, Darren, I really feel like a

1860
02:04:42,579 --> 02:04:46,179
lot of people would benefit from, like I hope they

1861
02:04:46,440 --> 02:04:51,059
blast your presentation from some very visible place through the

1862
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:54,479
commissioner's office or something, because it's really important information. And

1863
02:04:54,479 --> 02:04:56,499
the number of people who think that ditches are creeks

1864
02:04:56,840 --> 02:04:58,899
and do not understand the life force that it brings

1865
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:02,579
to our community is tricky. So thank you so much

1866
02:05:02,680 --> 02:05:07,439
for your work and for this presentation. Um, I, you

1867
02:05:07,439 --> 02:05:12,499
know, I have, uh, my questions are really around what

1868
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:16,739
you all are thinking as far as, um, you mentioned,

1869
02:05:16,739 --> 02:05:18,659
Mini said that there may be sort of state emergency

1870
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,299
funding coming out, um, a lot of my questions are

1871
02:05:21,400 --> 02:05:26,819
generally around, what do you all thinking as moving forward?

1872
02:05:26,819 --> 02:05:28,379
What are the sort of, and these don't have to

1873
02:05:28,379 --> 02:05:30,259
be answered tonight, but it's just so it's coming up

1874
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:32,499
for me as I'm thinking about this is like, what

1875
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:35,219
are, um, what are the strategies that you guys are

1876
02:05:35,259 --> 02:05:37,379
looking at as a team in future years? What do

1877
02:05:37,379 --> 02:05:40,019
you feel like is available to you for like vulnerable,

1878
02:05:40,019 --> 02:05:42,659
like figuring out what our vulnerabilities are and addressing some

1879
02:05:42,659 --> 02:05:45,999
of those, um, one thing that's standing out a lot

1880
02:05:46,200 --> 02:05:49,219
to me right now is the fact that, uh, though

1881
02:05:49,219 --> 02:05:53,539
there have been drought considerations in our municipalities, uh, I'm

1882
02:05:53,539 --> 02:05:56,179
really concerned that they are not as severe as what

1883
02:05:56,219 --> 02:05:58,559
our producers are facing, which tells me there's a bit

1884
02:05:58,559 --> 02:06:03,939
of an imbalance of wear water is landing. And that's

1885
02:06:03,979 --> 02:06:06,419
more extreme for some of our municipalities in the county.

1886
02:06:06,419 --> 02:06:08,739
So I'm just wondering what tools are available to you

1887
02:06:08,739 --> 02:06:13,139
guys through IGAs, through, um, I don't know what other

1888
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:16,500
sorts of what the ditch companies can do. Moving forward

1889
02:06:16,841 --> 02:06:19,540
to try to address some of those needs or if

1890
02:06:19,540 --> 02:06:23,634
the hope of that. Um, so that's my, that's one

1891
02:06:23,634 --> 02:06:26,194
question. I have a couple others, but maybe we'll start

1892
02:06:26,194 --> 02:06:34,937
with that. Yeah, I think, um. For, from like a

1893
02:06:35,118 --> 02:06:39,817
water rights point of view, it's difficult. A storage typically

1894
02:06:39,998 --> 02:06:44,510
has been the first thing that, uh. First discussion to

1895
02:06:44,531 --> 02:06:47,150
have when it comes to drought is that, and in

1896
02:06:47,190 --> 02:06:50,910
the state, the state has a water plan, um, that

1897
02:06:50,950 --> 02:06:53,870
was created, I think in 2021. It was updated a

1898
02:06:53,870 --> 02:06:57,630
few years ago, um, but it, it identifies storage as,

1899
02:06:57,630 --> 02:07:01,630
you know, increased storage or recovering lost storage due to

1900
02:07:01,651 --> 02:07:08,750
sedimentation, siltation. Um, is a very big, um, uh, that's

1901
02:07:08,790 --> 02:07:11,390
something to consider first when it comes to additional water

1902
02:07:11,571 --> 02:07:13,950
supplies. So if we had some water that we could

1903
02:07:13,950 --> 02:07:16,890
keep high in the system, in the mountains, in, you

1904
02:07:16,890 --> 02:07:19,230
know, release when we needed it or, you know, that

1905
02:07:19,230 --> 02:07:22,915
would be something that we could do. That is very

1906
02:07:23,016 --> 02:07:26,755
expensive. And if you look at girls reservoir, you know,

1907
02:07:26,755 --> 02:07:29,955
you see the, the challenges that, that comes with storage

1908
02:07:30,536 --> 02:07:34,275
on a smaller scale, you know, the county is pursuing

1909
02:07:35,256 --> 02:07:37,715
what we have water rights. We have water rights that

1910
02:07:37,715 --> 02:07:42,275
are not developed storage rights. Um, that again, comes at

1911
02:07:42,275 --> 02:07:46,195
a huge expense. But that storage things, the first thing

1912
02:07:46,296 --> 02:07:48,195
that comes to mind for me when it comes to

1913
02:07:48,376 --> 02:07:53,681
available water supply during drought. Northern water has a trans

1914
02:07:53,862 --> 02:07:58,561
basin system of deliveries from Colorado River to the front

1915
02:07:58,742 --> 02:08:03,281
range. And the County owns a lot of that water.

1916
02:08:03,281 --> 02:08:06,881
Um, we do make that water available to our tenants.

1917
02:08:06,881 --> 02:08:10,161
Um, and so that's an additional supply that we have

1918
02:08:10,422 --> 02:08:14,081
at our disposal. Let we can give to our tenants.

1919
02:08:14,081 --> 02:08:17,601
Um, and we've done that. So we're, we're really kind

1920
02:08:17,601 --> 02:08:20,321
of out of options in terms of a physical water

1921
02:08:20,342 --> 02:08:26,204
supply that we have right now. Yeah. I don't really

1922
02:08:26,305 --> 02:08:29,484
have anything other to add that's going to solve the

1923
02:08:29,505 --> 02:08:33,444
problem. But I think the collective brain trust, I think

1924
02:08:33,444 --> 02:08:35,484
we, you know, we'd be interested in ideas that other

1925
02:08:35,484 --> 02:08:39,564
people have. And this synthesize that and see what, what

1926
02:08:39,564 --> 02:08:44,173
could make sense moving forward. Thanks. Um, and then my

1927
02:08:44,213 --> 02:08:49,933
other question was just, uh, the Colorado water conservation board,

1928
02:08:49,933 --> 02:08:52,093
I feel like Vanessa, you're very well over of all

1929
02:08:52,093 --> 02:08:53,773
these grants that come out because of your work with

1930
02:08:53,813 --> 02:08:58,653
the ditches and your work with the county. But I'm

1931
02:08:58,653 --> 02:09:01,213
just wondering if we, do we leverage any of those

1932
02:09:01,874 --> 02:09:04,793
we gotten up to bat for, they do a lot

1933
02:09:04,793 --> 02:09:07,533
of water planning grants and things like that. And I

1934
02:09:07,533 --> 02:09:09,133
just didn't know if that was anything you guys have

1935
02:09:09,314 --> 02:09:16,471
considered. I think it's something the county. Hasn't used a

1936
02:09:16,471 --> 02:09:19,031
lot of in the past. Like there hasn't been a

1937
02:09:19,052 --> 02:09:24,071
hugely great need identified. But times are, are changing and

1938
02:09:24,071 --> 02:09:26,631
county budgets are changing as well. And so looking towards

1939
02:09:26,812 --> 02:09:30,391
the CWCB and other additional sources is something that we

1940
02:09:30,391 --> 02:09:32,871
have talked about and thought about and probably will look

1941
02:09:32,911 --> 02:09:36,631
at more in the future. Cool. Thanks. Um, I think

1942
02:09:37,292 --> 02:09:40,479
those. Are all of my questions. I really again, thank

1943
02:09:40,479 --> 02:09:47,477
you also much for this and your work. And Joan.

1944
02:09:47,477 --> 02:09:50,837
Um, it was perhaps last year that we had some,

1945
02:09:50,837 --> 02:09:55,317
um, farmers leasing land from the County Speak. And started

1946
02:09:55,357 --> 02:09:57,557
to interrupt, Joan, can you move that microphone closer to

1947
02:09:57,557 --> 02:10:03,477
yourself? Okay. And, um, they were complaining about having to

1948
02:10:03,578 --> 02:10:09,457
pay their workers the minimum wage, which was increasing. And

1949
02:10:10,138 --> 02:10:12,757
whether that would be one way you could provide some

1950
02:10:12,938 --> 02:10:16,037
relief to the farmers. Or if that's actually a terrible

1951
02:10:16,218 --> 02:10:20,677
idea because the workers also are facing increased food costs

1952
02:10:20,698 --> 02:10:25,797
and so on. Or the other thing is to reduce

1953
02:10:26,058 --> 02:10:30,437
their rent. But of course that is the opposite of

1954
02:10:30,538 --> 02:10:34,085
helping the County budget, which is in trouble. Just some

1955
02:10:34,106 --> 02:10:43,720
thoughts. Christine. Christine Johnson Posack. I grew up

1956
02:10:44,221 --> 02:10:47,080
in rural Western Colorado less than a quarter mile from

1957
02:10:47,981 --> 02:10:52,360
a canal. And my grandfather was a ditch writer and

1958
02:10:52,360 --> 02:10:56,280
a sugar beet farmer in Morgan County. And I, I

1959
02:10:56,320 --> 02:10:59,720
know what those structures do, but I think that presentation

1960
02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:06,218
should be blasted everywhere. Um, I'm really struck by, um,

1961
02:11:06,659 --> 02:11:12,158
there's a layer of conservation and efficiency that the county

1962
02:11:12,198 --> 02:11:16,398
has done for ag tenants and for better for worse.

1963
02:11:16,419 --> 02:11:18,958
I think we're at the point of looking at the

1964
02:11:18,979 --> 02:11:23,558
next layer. And I think it's really interesting. I can't

1965
02:11:23,558 --> 02:11:26,398
remember which one of you ended on the note of

1966
02:11:26,659 --> 02:11:30,718
talking about flood fire trout. And I think that this

1967
02:11:30,758 --> 02:11:34,318
is part of climate resilience and that we are just

1968
02:11:34,358 --> 02:11:39,758
going to have to continue, continuously be cycling on our

1969
02:11:39,779 --> 02:11:45,438
natural disasters, our unnatural disasters. Because some sentiment that I've

1970
02:11:45,438 --> 02:11:50,158
seen out there is, you know, hopefully next year won't

1971
02:11:50,198 --> 02:11:55,838
be another, another dry year. But there's going to be,

1972
02:11:55,838 --> 02:12:01,758
um, more dry years. And I think that, um, what's

1973
02:12:01,758 --> 02:12:05,918
coming is expensive. It is going to be expensive. And,

1974
02:12:05,918 --> 02:12:09,758
and I am really, I was, I really appreciate that

1975
02:12:09,758 --> 02:12:13,038
you talked about shrinkage and that you talked about Evapotranspiration

1976
02:12:13,379 --> 02:12:17,278
and losses there. And I think that there's all this

1977
02:12:17,299 --> 02:12:22,638
tension with, um, the water losses and the efficiencies and

1978
02:12:22,678 --> 02:12:25,998
the crops and the relationships with the farmers. And I

1979
02:12:25,998 --> 02:12:33,598
think that I'm just curious about like the next, what's,

1980
02:12:33,638 --> 02:12:38,798
what's next on the frontier after center pivots and some

1981
02:12:38,798 --> 02:12:42,638
of the other efficiency measures that have been talked about,

1982
02:12:42,638 --> 02:12:50,718
um, previous, um, post - AC meetings, um, community partnerships,

1983
02:12:50,718 --> 02:12:55,758
um, I think the idea of an intergovernmental, um, agreement

1984
02:12:56,739 --> 02:13:01,918
or some flexibility with municipalities and farmers in drought years.

1985
02:13:01,918 --> 02:13:04,478
Like that's something that has to be planned well in

1986
02:13:04,518 --> 02:13:08,138
advance. You don't do it. Um, on the fly, uh,

1987
02:13:08,419 --> 02:13:13,518
in a drought year, um, moving shares, um, being creative

1988
02:13:13,558 --> 02:13:18,958
about storage, um, and I'm also curious, uh, along with

1989
02:13:19,059 --> 02:13:24,078
Joan about, um, having some policies that with some flexibility

1990
02:13:24,419 --> 02:13:27,558
and the laces in these years, because I just, I

1991
02:13:27,699 --> 02:13:32,558
think about the attrition of farmers. And that's another factor

1992
02:13:32,739 --> 02:13:34,958
in this. It's another thing that we have to plan

1993
02:13:35,059 --> 02:13:39,678
for is to try to stem, um, that. And I'm

1994
02:13:39,678 --> 02:13:43,438
just, um, I'm curious about your comments about any of

1995
02:13:43,438 --> 02:13:47,628
that. Yeah. I can speak to that. Um, so we

1996
02:13:47,649 --> 02:13:52,188
are, as everything you said, I agree with completely. And,

1997
02:13:52,188 --> 02:13:56,428
um, we are developing a tool in terms of how

1998
02:13:56,529 --> 02:14:00,268
we're managing our water for our parks and open space

1999
02:14:00,369 --> 02:14:04,348
properties. Um, we are developing a tool so that we

2000
02:14:04,348 --> 02:14:08,428
can understand where our water is going, how it can

2001
02:14:08,529 --> 02:14:14,678
best serve. That farm. And then also, okay, can we,

2002
02:14:14,678 --> 02:14:18,198
does that farm have too much water, too little water?

2003
02:14:18,198 --> 02:14:20,118
Can we move that water around? And you mentioned different

2004
02:14:20,219 --> 02:14:23,078
shares under a ditch. So, you know, can we move

2005
02:14:24,299 --> 02:14:28,758
water historically on one property to another property that served

2006
02:14:28,798 --> 02:14:31,458
by that same ditch? So that we can, you know,

2007
02:14:31,499 --> 02:14:34,198
be more efficient with our water. So we are developing

2008
02:14:34,219 --> 02:14:38,438
a tool internally now so that we can better manage

2009
02:14:38,478 --> 02:14:40,598
our water. And I think we were speaking for the

2010
02:14:40,619 --> 02:14:43,798
meeting about kind of the infancy of our, of our

2011
02:14:43,899 --> 02:14:46,758
program is over. And now we're kind of in the,

2012
02:14:46,758 --> 02:14:50,198
we're done buying things. Now we're managing things. And that's

2013
02:14:50,779 --> 02:14:52,958
what brought about this tool is that we need to

2014
02:14:52,958 --> 02:14:55,878
be able to manage our water. Um, we have a

2015
02:14:55,878 --> 02:14:59,878
couple of years ago included flexibility, uh, flexible language in

2016
02:14:59,918 --> 02:15:03,238
the leases so that, you know, if, uh, if a

2017
02:15:03,238 --> 02:15:06,998
farmer doesn't want their water for some reason, they have

2018
02:15:06,998 --> 02:15:10,758
other water sources. They, you know, they, they don't need

2019
02:15:10,779 --> 02:15:13,318
it on a certain part of the farm because there's

2020
02:15:13,419 --> 02:15:16,998
work being done, whatever the reason. Um, that farmer could

2021
02:15:17,038 --> 02:15:19,398
say, well, yeah, you could use my water on another

2022
02:15:19,499 --> 02:15:23,558
lease. So we wanted to have that flexibility to the,

2023
02:15:23,558 --> 02:15:27,698
again, use every drop of water, the county owns, um,

2024
02:15:27,979 --> 02:15:31,478
on our agricultural open spaces. So that's for me, that's

2025
02:15:31,499 --> 02:15:36,760
the goal of this whole program. I just want to

2026
02:15:36,760 --> 02:15:43,280
speak briefly to sort of, the system relies on gravity.

2027
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:45,600
You know, it's an imperfect system that relies on gravity

2028
02:15:45,861 --> 02:15:48,080
and it's 150 years old, the whole thing, all of

2029
02:15:48,080 --> 02:15:54,240
it. So I think there are efforts and ideas and

2030
02:15:54,280 --> 02:15:57,600
people doing it in other places in Colorado where they're

2031
02:15:57,640 --> 02:16:00,960
really upgrading the systems with like automatic head gates and

2032
02:16:01,000 --> 02:16:03,280
things are piped. And it's like, it's even more efficient.

2033
02:16:03,722 --> 02:16:07,221
Those things are out there and they're possible. And they're

2034
02:16:07,322 --> 02:16:12,021
really, really, really expensive. They also have drawbacks. Like when

2035
02:16:12,021 --> 02:16:14,661
you pipe a ditch, the trees do die, the habitat

2036
02:16:14,701 --> 02:16:17,861
goes away, you know, so there's pros and cons to

2037
02:16:17,882 --> 02:16:22,901
efficiency as well. But those conversations are happening because as

2038
02:16:22,941 --> 02:16:24,981
you all know in the West, like water is life

2039
02:16:25,162 --> 02:16:27,701
and the so much of it. So we just have

2040
02:16:27,701 --> 02:16:32,421
to balance the cost and the return with larger scale

2041
02:16:32,442 --> 02:16:36,731
projects like that. And we don't control everything. Like we

2042
02:16:36,771 --> 02:16:39,531
are members on ditch boards, but the ditch companies truly

2043
02:16:39,531 --> 02:16:42,263
are the ones who make the decisions. Yeah. And, you

2044
02:16:42,263 --> 02:16:45,323
know, currently we, the county spends about 500, 000 dollars

2045
02:16:45,424 --> 02:16:49,803
a year on annual assessments to ditch companies. Those assessments

2046
02:16:49,824 --> 02:16:53,883
go to operating and maintaining the ditch. So our wildfire

2047
02:16:53,883 --> 02:16:58,123
mitigation program is another layer of, uh, contribution that the

2048
02:16:58,224 --> 02:17:03,003
county makes, um, to those ditches operating. And then also

2049
02:17:03,003 --> 02:17:06,363
I think just our program itself, the existence of it

2050
02:17:07,344 --> 02:17:11,803
promotes and keeps agriculture and vulner county. You know, we

2051
02:17:11,904 --> 02:17:15,403
have the ability to put water on the land, which

2052
02:17:15,403 --> 02:17:19,723
is serving the downstream land as well through sub -

2053
02:17:19,723 --> 02:17:23,163
irrigated alfalfa and things like that. It's keeping a moist

2054
02:17:23,424 --> 02:17:26,663
soil. This oil moisture reservoir. So it's, um, it's, um,

2055
02:17:26,944 --> 02:17:30,843
our program, I think has those more intangible benefits to

2056
02:17:30,883 --> 02:17:34,523
it. Um, to the community as well. But it's kind

2057
02:17:34,523 --> 02:17:42,077
of goes unseen, I think. John. John, right, Pozak, um,

2058
02:17:43,718 --> 02:17:47,937
I'm going to use a specific example, not because I

2059
02:17:48,038 --> 02:17:51,937
want the answer to this, um, by our house is

2060
02:17:52,038 --> 02:17:54,637
a good hue ditch goes by our house. And, uh,

2061
02:17:55,238 --> 02:17:58,497
right next to us is seventh generation farms, which I

2062
02:17:58,537 --> 02:18:02,417
assume has really senior water rights. But there hadn't been

2063
02:18:02,758 --> 02:18:06,737
a drop water. Now good few ditch goes all the

2064
02:18:06,737 --> 02:18:12,212
way to Eldorado Springs, I guess. Does that mean all

2065
02:18:12,252 --> 02:18:15,612
the farmers on that ditch said they're not going to

2066
02:18:15,612 --> 02:18:18,292
plan anything this year? Or is it because the ditch

2067
02:18:18,953 --> 02:18:22,292
has not been assigned any water? Um, how does that

2068
02:18:22,292 --> 02:18:26,612
work? Yeah. Well, this is part of the 37 boards

2069
02:18:26,612 --> 02:18:28,452
that we sit on. I'm the vice president of the

2070
02:18:28,473 --> 02:18:32,052
good huge ditch. Okay. So I'm schizophrenic often because I

2071
02:18:32,052 --> 02:18:35,492
have to either represent the county or the ditch company.

2072
02:18:35,492 --> 02:18:37,092
Um, but so in this case, I'll speak from the

2073
02:18:37,273 --> 02:18:42,212
ditch company, um, we, we weren't in priority this year

2074
02:18:42,473 --> 02:18:45,452
to be able to call for our water rights. So

2075
02:18:45,833 --> 02:18:48,492
the, the ditch is a more junior right, which is

2076
02:18:48,492 --> 02:18:51,872
still a very senior right and a typical year. But

2077
02:18:51,913 --> 02:18:54,532
this year it was junior enough to where we weren't

2078
02:18:54,572 --> 02:18:58,852
able to divert. So, um, if you had, if you

2079
02:18:58,852 --> 02:19:01,712
were a shareholder of good heat ditch water rights, uh,

2080
02:19:01,913 --> 02:19:06,498
you didn't get water. And if you had a farmer.

2081
02:19:06,498 --> 02:19:08,578
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's yeah, it's not up to

2082
02:19:08,578 --> 02:19:12,858
the farmer. It's that, that ditch wasn't in priority. It

2083
02:19:12,858 --> 02:19:15,858
wasn't senior enough. And therefore didn't take water right next

2084
02:19:15,879 --> 02:19:19,218
door could be the Davidson ditch running that's able to

2085
02:19:19,479 --> 02:19:22,898
gravity feed the land below that ditch, which is the

2086
02:19:22,938 --> 02:19:25,618
above the good hue ditch. And so you might see

2087
02:19:25,879 --> 02:19:31,618
a farm that has some irrigated agriculture and crop growth,

2088
02:19:31,618 --> 02:19:33,518
um, right next to a farm that does it. And

2089
02:19:33,518 --> 02:19:35,698
it could be because of the priority of those two

2090
02:19:35,799 --> 02:19:39,100
ditches that run parallel to each other. Thank you. Yep.

2091
02:19:41,238 --> 02:19:45,416
Anybody else. Postec? Uh, Jeff, do you have any comments

2092
02:19:45,597 --> 02:19:50,626
or questions. Uh, no. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for asking,

2093
02:19:50,626 --> 02:19:55,106
Trace. Um, really informative presentation. Thank you all for giving

2094
02:19:55,146 --> 02:19:59,956
it. Okay. Well, Darren and Vanessa, thank you so much.

2095
02:20:00,377 --> 02:20:10,303
Thank you. It was awesome. Thank you. Thank. So, um,

2096
02:20:10,584 --> 02:20:16,963
I think Liana has a finding on our, uh, question

2097
02:20:16,963 --> 02:20:25,215
about, uh, straw polls. Yeah. This is Liana Larimore, Assistant

2098
02:20:25,215 --> 02:20:29,375
County Attorney. In order for me to answer properly answer

2099
02:20:29,396 --> 02:20:32,895
your question regarding whether POSAC can make a recommendation or

2100
02:20:32,916 --> 02:20:36,495
do a straw man poll on an informational agenda item.

2101
02:20:36,495 --> 02:20:38,175
I'm going to recommend that we go into an executive

2102
02:20:38,196 --> 02:20:43,055
session pursuant to CRS 24 - 6 - 402 -

2103
02:20:43,055 --> 02:20:47,215
4B for legal advice. If you're interested in doing this,

2104
02:20:47,215 --> 02:20:49,735
um, you would need to make a motion, have a

2105
02:20:49,735 --> 02:20:51,935
second, and then have a two - thirds vote in

2106
02:20:51,975 --> 02:21:00,861
favor. Motion to do that. Go into executive session. Nick,

2107
02:21:00,861 --> 02:21:07,703
is it technically feasible to have an executive session. It's

2108
02:21:07,703 --> 02:21:10,103
a great question. We've never done one while I've been

2109
02:21:10,524 --> 02:21:12,823
in control room here. Um, we're also running up to

2110
02:21:12,844 --> 02:21:17,772
our 8 p. m. ending time. So I don't know

2111
02:21:18,193 --> 02:21:21,372
how the timing would work. Okay. So let's table this

2112
02:21:21,473 --> 02:21:26,810
one. And perhaps have an executive session for next year's

2113
02:21:27,151 --> 02:21:32,683
retreat. Presuming the question doesn't come up again. Sorry. Next

2114
02:21:32,723 --> 02:21:36,523
year next year. Oh. Okay. Or next or next session

2115
02:21:36,864 --> 02:21:38,683
I would recommend. Cause I would like to know the

2116
02:21:38,704 --> 02:21:44,209
answer. Well, maybe Nick can figure out, uh, technically what

2117
02:21:44,249 --> 02:21:47,009
we would have to do for an executive session given

2118
02:21:47,009 --> 02:21:51,944
that we're, um, broadcasting this or streaming it. Yeah. So

2119
02:21:52,805 --> 02:21:56,704
executive sessions are done in private between the board and

2120
02:21:56,744 --> 02:21:59,024
its attorney. And so typically when I do this with

2121
02:21:59,024 --> 02:22:01,184
other boards, we go into another room. And if we

2122
02:22:01,184 --> 02:22:03,984
have a virtual number, we call them in. So I

2123
02:22:03,984 --> 02:22:06,304
think that at next meeting we could certainly figure out

2124
02:22:06,325 --> 02:22:08,544
a way to make that happen. Okay. Great. Well, thank

2125
02:22:08,544 --> 02:22:11,950
you. Let's put it on the agenda then. Cause I

2126
02:22:11,950 --> 02:22:13,950
don't think I should wait for a year. Yeah. Okay.

2127
02:22:15,011 --> 02:22:20,497
Great. Okay. Thank you very much. Very much. Jason Sook,

2128
02:22:20,497 --> 02:22:27,061
Director's Update. Troublemaker. Well, we've got limited time. I just

2129
02:22:27,082 --> 02:22:30,021
wanted to say first, um, thanks so much to our

2130
02:22:30,061 --> 02:22:32,741
team was presented tonight. You know, since I've been here,

2131
02:22:33,402 --> 02:22:37,621
I'm feeling incredibly fortunate to work alongside such talented staff.

2132
02:22:37,621 --> 02:22:40,101
People have such deep knowledge and passion on these issues

2133
02:22:40,282 --> 02:22:44,181
from research to patrols to, you know, ag ditches, you

2134
02:22:44,181 --> 02:22:46,821
know, the whole gamut, just strong team. And thank you

2135
02:22:46,861 --> 02:22:48,981
all so much. Um, and also thank you all for

2136
02:22:49,082 --> 02:22:51,781
being here. You know, it's Thursday night. You don't have

2137
02:22:51,781 --> 02:22:54,981
to be. And I appreciate your commitment and really great

2138
02:22:55,002 --> 02:23:00,261
questions insightful advice and good perspective. And just fortunate again

2139
02:23:00,301 --> 02:23:04,501
to work with you all. Um, super quick, not only

2140
02:23:04,541 --> 02:23:06,901
are we running up on time, we've got US men's

2141
02:23:07,082 --> 02:23:09,441
World Cup game here coming up tonight. So we, you

2142
02:23:09,441 --> 02:23:12,421
know, we really, we really got to focus. But just

2143
02:23:12,461 --> 02:23:14,261
a couple of things I wanted to highlight. Um, one

2144
02:23:14,282 --> 02:23:17,861
on the ag side, uh, we have soil health grantees.

2145
02:23:17,861 --> 02:23:20,101
Um, all of those grantees have now received their first

2146
02:23:20,141 --> 02:23:22,741
half of their funding. So they're often running. There are

2147
02:23:22,762 --> 02:23:25,781
staff are conducting field visits to see how the practices

2148
02:23:25,802 --> 02:23:29,361
and those soil health grants are being supported. And, um,

2149
02:23:29,402 --> 02:23:31,701
you know, think about how we can monitor the work

2150
02:23:31,722 --> 02:23:34,341
and then process the second half and final payments for

2151
02:23:34,362 --> 02:23:38,741
those leaseholders. Um, we celebrated national trails day on June

2152
02:23:38,762 --> 02:23:41,141
6th with a share of the trails trailhead event that

2153
02:23:41,162 --> 02:23:43,621
brought out more than 200 people. Another example of how

2154
02:23:43,722 --> 02:23:45,301
we're kind of trying to get that message out on

2155
02:23:45,402 --> 02:23:47,941
how we can share the trails and, you know, think

2156
02:23:47,981 --> 02:23:51,941
about how we can all use those, uh, incredible resources,

2157
02:23:51,941 --> 02:23:55,541
um, in a way that the accommodates everyone. June is

2158
02:23:55,722 --> 02:23:59,061
festival season. We're in full swing. Uh, we've got Parks

2159
02:23:59,101 --> 02:24:04,421
and OpenSpace representing at Longmont Pride Boulder Pride and Juneteenth.

2160
02:24:04,421 --> 02:24:07,701
And that's been a fantastic time to engage. And it's

2161
02:24:07,722 --> 02:24:09,621
wonderful to see all these flags here on the window

2162
02:24:09,621 --> 02:24:16,602
as well, I'll say. The youth core, we are officially

2163
02:24:16,783 --> 02:24:19,382
underway. I think we're two weeks into it now. Got

2164
02:24:19,382 --> 02:24:22,202
a fantastic group this year. It's supported by a 50

2165
02:24:22,202 --> 02:24:25,122
percent return rate among leaders and core members. I think

2166
02:24:25,122 --> 02:24:27,462
that's a good indication of, you know, whether or not

2167
02:24:27,462 --> 02:24:30,442
they liked it. And, uh, giving us great confidence and

2168
02:24:30,442 --> 02:24:33,322
a really safe and very successful season. In total, we

2169
02:24:33,343 --> 02:24:37,642
have 105 core members, including many returners along with 27

2170
02:24:37,663 --> 02:24:40,282
staff and leaders. And we've partnered with more than 30

2171
02:24:40,303 --> 02:24:44,362
sponsors across all our different work groups inside Parkstape Open

2172
02:24:44,402 --> 02:24:48,122
space. Five municipalities in the play foundation and city of

2173
02:24:48,162 --> 02:24:51,402
Boulder Oscar. And those teams are out right now across

2174
02:24:51,402 --> 02:24:55,002
the county working on trails. Forestry and fire mitigation, resource

2175
02:24:55,023 --> 02:24:59,002
management, historic preservation, weed management, much more. And they'll have

2176
02:24:59,002 --> 02:25:03,162
a lot of opportunities throughout the season for experiential education,

2177
02:25:03,162 --> 02:25:05,962
team building sessions, which is pretty interesting sort of how

2178
02:25:05,983 --> 02:25:08,522
do we think about each other in relation to nature

2179
02:25:09,583 --> 02:25:11,562
and, you know, pretty interesting stuff. So I'm very proud

2180
02:25:11,562 --> 02:25:15,642
of that. District planning. Last month I spoke about district

2181
02:25:15,743 --> 02:25:20,842
level planning. Kind of a conceptual idea, uh, on broader

2182
02:25:20,943 --> 02:25:25,322
landscape management. And, um, will, uh, last month we discussed

2183
02:25:25,362 --> 02:25:27,802
this concept with the Board A County Commissioners. And we're

2184
02:25:27,802 --> 02:25:29,482
going to have a follow up work session with the

2185
02:25:29,522 --> 02:25:33,802
Border County Commissioners on July 21st to continue that discussion.

2186
02:25:33,802 --> 02:25:36,522
And what we're planning to do with this overall concept

2187
02:25:36,543 --> 02:25:39,322
is to move toward an approach to helps us shift

2188
02:25:39,343 --> 02:25:43,402
from Reactive parcel by parcel planning to a more proactive,

2189
02:25:43,402 --> 02:25:46,842
predictable and resilience system that's kind of built around six

2190
02:25:46,882 --> 02:25:52,042
different ecologically, meaningful districts and areas. And, um, you know,

2191
02:25:52,042 --> 02:25:55,322
we want to engage communities, test new methods and improve

2192
02:25:55,343 --> 02:25:58,922
our internal workflows. And, um, you know, not only just

2193
02:25:58,922 --> 02:26:02,762
bring thousands of unplanned acres under management, but also incorporate

2194
02:26:02,802 --> 02:26:05,462
those that have already been under management into, you know,

2195
02:26:05,583 --> 02:26:09,003
more cohesive regional plan. And yeah, so we're looking for

2196
02:26:09,104 --> 02:26:11,323
that conversation. We'll keep you posted and keep you updated

2197
02:26:12,784 --> 02:26:16,843
as appropriate and look forward to engaging as we further

2198
02:26:16,864 --> 02:26:20,043
develop this idea to, you know, more of a conceptual

2199
02:26:20,064 --> 02:26:22,603
plan. Prayer, Iran. I think we talked a little bit

2200
02:26:22,643 --> 02:26:25,723
about that just when we walked in. You had good

2201
02:26:25,744 --> 02:26:29,003
questions last time. We anticipate the opening, the Southwest portion

2202
02:26:29,104 --> 02:26:32,123
of Prairie run in the fall. One of the final

2203
02:26:32,224 --> 02:26:35,403
pieces is the restroom facility. And that was scheduled to

2204
02:26:35,443 --> 02:26:39,003
begin construction recently. Um, but work was paused due to

2205
02:26:39,003 --> 02:26:41,723
an active kill deer nest within the buffer area at

2206
02:26:41,723 --> 02:26:45,163
the 109th Trailhead. So we expect the eggs to hatch

2207
02:26:45,184 --> 02:26:47,403
and then the chicks to fledge any day. And once

2208
02:26:47,443 --> 02:26:50,523
they've safely moved on, then construction will resume and we'll

2209
02:26:50,544 --> 02:26:52,923
continue moving on forward. But, um, so look into the

2210
02:26:53,024 --> 02:26:57,243
fall. And we'll keep it, we'll, we'll think about it.

2211
02:26:57,243 --> 02:26:59,083
But I think it was a good suggestion about a

2212
02:26:59,083 --> 02:27:03,803
potential retreat idea there, which I think would be lovely.

2213
02:27:03,803 --> 02:27:05,803
And, uh, I guess that's it for me for now.

2214
02:27:05,803 --> 02:27:09,363
Um, again, just, uh, feeling fortunate to continue kind of

2215
02:27:09,363 --> 02:27:13,083
learning, develop, um, you know, good ideas and continue thinking

2216
02:27:13,123 --> 02:27:15,403
about, I think, uh, you know, a vision moving forward

2217
02:27:16,064 --> 02:27:19,403
where we can, you know, tackle these kind of dynamic

2218
02:27:19,443 --> 02:27:22,683
challenges. You know, we're seeing real - time climate change,

2219
02:27:22,683 --> 02:27:25,003
like you mentioned Christine. You know, what are we doing

2220
02:27:25,003 --> 02:27:27,323
about that? Um, how can we do things a little

2221
02:27:27,323 --> 02:27:32,003
bit differently to anticipate, you know, to incorporate kind of

2222
02:27:32,384 --> 02:27:35,163
this, this, you know, brave new world we're in to

2223
02:27:35,203 --> 02:27:37,403
serve the County the best that we can. Um, and

2224
02:27:37,443 --> 02:27:39,243
I thought the water management is a good example of

2225
02:27:39,283 --> 02:27:42,123
that. I think that example extends to, you know, across

2226
02:27:42,123 --> 02:27:44,843
our, our department and many work groups, um, look forward

2227
02:27:44,843 --> 02:27:47,723
to, um, that level of planning and engaging with you

2228
02:27:47,763 --> 02:27:50,363
all as we, um, think about those big ideas moving

2229
02:27:50,403 --> 02:27:54,763
forward. Thanks so much. Thank you, Jason. Respecting the World

2230
02:27:54,763 --> 02:27:59,483
Cup any questions or comments for Jason. Done. Um, John

2231
02:27:59,584 --> 02:28:03,643
White Pozak, what's a soil grant? You started off talking

2232
02:28:03,683 --> 02:28:06,603
about those. Yeah, absolutely. And Vanessa can correct me if

2233
02:28:06,624 --> 02:28:09,003
I've gone astray here, but we have a program that,

2234
02:28:09,003 --> 02:28:12,843
um, provides small grants to, um, leaseholders that are testing

2235
02:28:13,024 --> 02:28:17,483
soil practices for, uh, improving soil health on their land.

2236
02:28:17,483 --> 02:28:21,243
So a lot of these are, um, interesting ways of,

2237
02:28:21,264 --> 02:28:24,843
of using compost, um, just testing kind of new ideas

2238
02:28:25,264 --> 02:28:30,123
on, uh, improving soil health to improve productivity and yields

2239
02:28:30,624 --> 02:28:33,163
in a, uh, you know, I think a sustainable fashion.

2240
02:28:33,163 --> 02:28:36,043
I get that one right, Vanessa? Oh, good. Good news.

2241
02:28:36,144 --> 02:28:39,883
Uh, Jeff fought any, uh, questions or comments. You have

2242
02:28:39,923 --> 02:28:46,917
one minute. Got a lot. So let me try to

2243
02:28:47,018 --> 02:28:49,957
cram it all in. No, that's, I'm good. Thank you

2244
02:28:49,957 --> 02:28:52,757
for asking, Trace. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Well

2245
02:28:53,018 --> 02:28:54,677
in that case, we are adjourned.