[0:01] Can you hear me out there? We can welcome everyone
[0:04] to today's Boulder County Parks Open Space Advisory Committee meeting.
[0:08] We've reached our start time. These meetings are held in
[0:11] a virtual hybrid format. Via Zoom webinar. I'm going to
[0:16] start the webinar now. Please know it takes a few
[0:20] minutes or a few seconds for Zoom to bring members
[0:23] of the public into the session as attendees. Just a
[0:26] friendly reminder to all post - ACT members, presenters and
[0:29] public speakers, please make sure you're within two inches of
[0:32] the microphone speaking. This helps ensure we maintain an accurate
[0:36] public record. Members of the committee. Are you ready. We
[0:40] are ready. All right, we can begin. Good evening, everybody.
[0:46] Welcome to the July 23rd 2026 Meeting of the Boulder
[0:50] County Parks at Open Space Advisory Committee. I'm Terry Spaker,
[0:54] and I'm chair for this term. We'll start out with
[0:58] roll call. Trey Baker President, Ariel Barbieri Agib. Carol Barley.
[1:07] Present. Christine Johnson. Here. Lauren Kelso. Here. Vicky Lawrence's Excused.
[1:16] Joan Lutz. And Jeff Audi is excused. And John White
[1:23] here. Thank you. There are no topics requiring a post
[1:31] - AC vote and recommendation to the Boulder County Commissioners
[1:35] this evening. So we will not be taking public comment
[1:39] during the meeting. Our first topic Heidi Wagner will present
[1:47] on the District Level Planning Proposal. All right, thank you,
[1:54] Trace. Thank you, Pozak. My name is Heidi Wagner. I'm
[1:57] the Deputy Director of Strategic Foundations. Thanks for your time
[2:01] tonight. We're here to talk about my favorite topic. So
[2:05] spin the next four to five hours planning, visioning, structure.
[2:08] It'll be great. I'm gonna get some Post - it
[2:10] notes. Vision. But I'm really excited to present this concept
[2:14] to you tonight. So while I'm here today is I
[2:21] want to introduce a new planning model to you. It's
[2:25] called, we call it District Level Planning. I want to
[2:29] explain how it emerged through the Board of County Commissioner's
[2:32] work session process. I want to share why we are
[2:38] proposing starting planning in the place of the county that
[2:42] we are. We're calling that peak to peak. I'll explain
[2:46] that here in a moment. And then I want to
[2:48] outline some ideas that staff have had for your involvement
[2:53] for Pozac involvement, as well as, listen, your feedback. And
[2:59] IDAS as well. And before we begin and kind of
[3:04] get into the Presentation, I want to stress tonight that
[3:07] we are just starting this process. The board gave us
[3:12] direction two days ago. So we are not launching any
[3:16] planning tonight. We are in the phase that I like
[3:20] to call planning to plan. And so you're here for
[3:24] that early feedback to help us shape next steps. So
[3:30] first of all, why am I here talking about planning
[3:33] and planning models? I want to explain a little bit
[3:37] about where we are as Parks and OpenSpace and some
[3:41] of the challenges that we're facing. You know, our planning
[3:45] system is truly stretched. We have a small but mighty
[3:50] team of planners. I have three planners right now, one
[3:54] of which is the supervisor for the planning and cultural
[3:57] group. So two planners actually doing a lot of the
[4:00] planning work in the department. And we have over 50
[4:05] existing plans covering about 39, 000 acres of our property.
[4:11] And that means 64 percent of our property does not
[4:15] have management plan guidance. And some of our existing plans,
[4:21] those 50 plans, some of them are decades old. Like
[4:23] they were written under different values. And assumptions. And to
[4:31] update any of those 50 old plans or create a
[4:34] new plan is about a two year process at a
[4:37] minimum. And so this really means that we're often in
[4:41] reactive mode as planners. We're responding to issues instead of
[4:44] thinking ahead and taking a strategic approach. Um, and then
[4:49] that also has a effect on our community. It lends
[4:53] itself to a lot of unpredictability. The community doesn't know
[4:56] when a property is going to be reviewed. Re reviewed,
[5:00] uh, maybe the desire for a new trail. And we're
[5:02] like, wait, we have to do an amendment. Um, they
[5:05] don't. And then when we purchase a new property, there
[5:08] can often be a lot of excitement around that. And
[5:11] people don't know when is that going to see planning.
[5:15] And so we've reached a point that this parcel by
[5:17] parcel or a site level focus and planning just can't
[5:21] keep up with our system. And the bottom line here
[5:24] is site level planning did serve as well for many
[5:27] years, but we have now outgrown that model. Wait. For.
[5:36] Oh. No. One more. Okay. So what is District Planning?
[5:41] What does this model that I'm talking about? Basically District
[5:45] Planning organizes the county into large ecologically and operationally meaningful
[5:51] zones. So instead of planning by property by property or
[5:55] cluster of parcels, we look at entire landscapes across the
[5:59] county. So how does the ecosystem function in this area?
[6:03] How to visitors interact with this space? How do agricultural
[6:07] operations fit in? Basically what we do is we plan
[6:11] for all the parcels at once within a district. And
[6:14] that results in a comprehensive management plan for the entire
[6:18] area. That is more reflective and responsive of real world
[6:21] conditions. And as illustrated on this slide, what you're seeing
[6:26] is staff's first delineation of districts. And we looked at
[6:31] several different lenses to create these lines. Um, we looked
[6:34] at ecological systems. Um, recreation use in an area and
[6:39] how visitors flowed throughout the, um, an area. We looked
[6:43] at agriculture and working lands and how, uh, tenants move
[6:47] over landscapes. We also looked at operational logistics, like what
[6:53] it takes to support properties in different areas. So think
[6:56] about how far rangers have to drive to patrol or
[7:00] respond how we get our crews up there to maintenance
[7:04] trailheads. Um, you know, empty trash and recycling, for example.
[7:09] So the six districts that we came up with that
[7:13] made a lot of sense working together because of similar
[7:17] characteristics. Um, we call the first one in the upper
[7:22] left of the Count Lions North County. And that is
[7:27] really rugged terrain and conserved lands that are really in
[7:31] that rule urban divide. Then moving down on the east
[7:35] side, we have the river district, which is mostly the
[7:39] St. Verain corridor and properties. Um, we have going, keep
[7:44] going south. We have what we call the bread basket
[7:47] there along 287. And that's made up of high quality
[7:51] irrigated agricultural land. And then, uh, South County, southeastern part
[7:58] of the county, we are calling South County Grasslands. And
[8:01] you can think of that as like our dry land
[8:04] ag and Southern prairie grassland ecosystem group. Moving over to
[8:08] the west, you have the foothills where we really transition
[8:12] from, um, the steep foothills to lower elevations. And then
[8:18] lastly, you have the peak to peak district, which is
[8:21] that high elevation mountain landscape that centers on Netherland and
[8:25] adora. So to dive a little deeper so I can
[8:34] explain a little bit more about this district planning concept.
[8:39] It really allows us to look at a district at
[8:42] a larger landscape and operational level as complete systems. Instead
[8:48] of just like we're, you know, hyper focused on this
[8:50] one little three hang eight hundred acre patch, um, we
[8:54] can look at that whole corridor instead. And that gives
[8:59] us the ability to look at watersheds, uh, trail networks,
[9:03] visitor patterns. Um, uh, like wildlife mitigation corridors. And what
[9:09] you're seeing on the screen are actually two maps from
[9:12] the Boulder County Comprehensive Plan. Because this is very similar
[9:16] to the scale that they will use. And so when
[9:19] we're looking at that comprehensive plan and we're looking at
[9:23] just like one small little parcel, it's really hard to
[9:26] see how that influences the larger system as a whole.
[9:29] But if you're looking at the whole district, then you
[9:31] can actually take a lot of this information into much
[9:35] better consideration and make better informed decisions. So this also
[9:39] gives us the opportunity to work more closely with adjacent
[9:43] property owners. So instead of just looking at the boundaries
[9:46] of one parcel and saying, okay, who's the adjacent property
[9:49] owners, you're looking at a JSON property owners, both public
[9:52] and private throughout the district. So you can really form
[9:56] broader relationships that way and work together to create solutions
[10:00] to share challenges. So, and then practically, um, from the
[10:05] staffing side, District Scale Planning really allows us to align
[10:11] our work, the rhythm of our work at parks with
[10:14] like the practical realities of, uh, stewardship of this land
[10:18] and local government, which is our budget cycles, our capital
[10:22] improvement plans, uh, the staffing capacity that we need to
[10:26] execute this work. So it's going to create a more
[10:28] predictable and manageable planning rhythm helping ensure that each district
[10:33] is addressed thoughtfully. And that implementation is achievable. Some of
[10:41] the benefits of district planning to community engagement, um, really
[10:46] what we foresee is that our engagement work will become
[10:49] deeper and more connected to the communities who live near
[10:53] and use these landscapes. So rather than just engaging people
[10:58] in countywide processes where participation can often skew towards the
[11:03] most vocal groups, we can meet residents where they are
[11:06] and build conversations around the specific context and needs of
[11:10] each district. It's a place - based approach and it
[11:14] allows us to engage people that normally might not participate
[11:17] in the planning cycle or maybe only hear about it
[11:20] at the very end. And this allows us to really
[11:24] understand the cultural histories, traditional uses and local priorities of
[11:29] the people on that landscape. And it does not, I
[11:35] want to emphasize that it does not replace Countywide engagement.
[11:39] It's just a two - pronged approach of what we
[11:41] call both, um, County - wide and place - based
[11:45] engagement. And I'll give some examples of that a little
[11:47] later in the presentation. Uh, and then what we're hoping
[11:51] is that another benefit of this type of engagement is
[11:54] that it really introduces a predictable planning cycle for the
[11:58] community. So they know when they're district is up for
[12:01] planning instead of saying, Hey, you bought that property. You
[12:05] said you were, you know, going to do a management
[12:07] plan. When is that happening? So the instead will be
[12:10] able to say that will occur in this next district
[12:13] plan cycle. So people will, um, it's an easier way
[12:18] to understand how to be involved, to prepare for that
[12:21] planning cycle. And it will help, um, build trust and
[12:25] consistency in the process. Okay. So I'm going to take
[12:32] a breath here and move away from the model. Thank
[12:37] you, John. Move away from the model. And I just
[12:41] want to explain before I go on why POSAC is
[12:44] hearing about district planning now. And how did this topic
[12:49] emerge. So when I was serving as interim, um, I
[12:53] explained this district planning concept to County leadership, um, planning
[12:59] at a landscape scale. So this idea had been discussed
[13:02] over many years by planning staff. Um, but it never
[13:06] gained any traction. Um, but this time when I pitched
[13:10] it County leadership encouraged us to bring the IDI forward
[13:14] to the board before investing significant time in it. So
[13:18] essentially it's a check for alignment. Go ahead, Carol. Excuse
[13:21] me. Heidi. Um, Carol Bilesa. When you say County leadership,
[13:26] who do you mean? So parks and open space reports
[13:29] to the Deputy County Administrator Yvette Bowden is her name.
[13:33] Okay. And so we brought the concept. So it's basically
[13:41] here's this idea. We like it. And leadership says, I
[13:46] like that AIDA as well. Let's take it to the
[13:49] board at a work session. And what a work session
[13:55] is is a check for alignment before getting farther down
[13:59] the road. So we brought the concept to the work
[14:04] session, which was on May 26th. And that's a newer
[14:07] meeting format. So I wanted to just take a moment
[14:09] to explain it because I think the whole community is
[14:12] like, what is this work session thing that the county
[14:15] just started? And what it is, is, um, it allows
[14:19] commissioners to gather information to ask questions openly of staff
[14:24] and understand complex ideas before any informal decision making begins.
[14:30] So and these meetings are fully open to the public,
[14:33] but they don't include public comment. And it's not because
[14:36] the input isn't valued. It's because these meetings are met
[14:39] for commissioners to learn test assumptions and see the full
[14:44] range of implications before moving a topic into the public
[14:48] hearing phase. And in this case, the public hearing phase
[14:51] would be when a management plan is delivered and considered
[14:54] for adoption. And sometimes work sessions are misunderstood as replacing
[14:59] hearings or limiting input, but that is not their purpose.
[15:03] In fact, it increases transparency because, uh, by letting commissioners
[15:08] explore these ideas and, um, open in the public rather
[15:12] than behind the scenes, um, people understand how we got
[15:16] here instead of it just landing at a public hearing.
[15:19] And so this is exactly what happened with District Planning.
[15:22] So after the first work session in May, commissioners asked
[15:26] for more information, uh, we returned with a deeper analysis.
[15:31] And on Tuesday, two days ago, they formally directed staff
[15:34] to proceed. And that and beginning with the peak to
[15:38] peak district. So that's why Pozac is hearing about it,
[15:42] um, tonight, because now that the board has asked us
[15:45] to move forward, um, we are bringing this to you
[15:48] in the process at the very beginning. So I just
[15:51] want to stress, we can't get ahead of the board.
[15:54] So we're given direction. And now we can come. And
[15:57] so two days later, you are truly at the start
[16:00] of this process. And that's why I'm so excited about
[16:03] it. Okay. So I want to shift back and talk
[16:10] a little bit about peak to peak. So you're going
[16:13] to hear, I'm going to hear so much about this.
[16:16] So get on your hiking boots. And this is a
[16:20] wonderful, wonderful, beautiful part of the county. And we really
[16:24] consider it an ideal place to start this model because
[16:29] the, the district itself functions almost like a microcosm of
[16:33] the whole county because it includes a wide range of
[16:36] ecosystems. Um, it has, um, lots of, you know, visitor,
[16:43] um, interest and pressures. And operationally it has, um, a
[16:48] high need of, uh, ranger patrol and a high level
[16:51] of service. But the complexity lends itself to so many
[16:55] of the challenges that we see across the county. We
[16:58] feel like starting in the peak to peak area first.
[17:01] We'll give us a really, um, good indication if we
[17:04] can continue to use this model and translate it to
[17:08] the rest of the county. And so just to get,
[17:15] I want to give you a little bit of a
[17:16] preview here on some of the details that I am
[17:19] talking about. The first thing I want to speak to
[17:22] is the high conservation values in the peak to peak
[17:24] area. So if you look at the peak to peak
[17:27] district, I have a stat up there of 29. 7
[17:32] percent. And what that means of all of our critical
[17:35] wildlife habitat that we have in the county 30 percent
[17:40] of the land that we own in this district is
[17:43] considered critical wildlife habitat. And that's incredibly notable. It's very,
[17:48] very rich in biodiversity. And you can also see what
[17:53] the list up there, there's, um, the several other conservation,
[17:57] um, designations, uh, throughout the district. And it has been
[18:02] more than 20 years since we've done any kind of
[18:04] management planning up here. Mud Lake was the last one
[18:08] in 2004. And so it's a really good time to
[18:11] check in because of those high conservation values and make
[18:15] sure our management is in the right direction. Yes, John.
[18:19] John Wyck Posak. Well, the map's up. That's why I'm
[18:23] asking now. Where's the Tucker property? I know Reynolds. I
[18:26] don't know, Tucker. Okay. So there's a thing that I
[18:28] push that makes a dot come up. Um, I don't
[18:32] know how to do it. Sorry. I wasn't trying to
[18:35] mess with you. Oh no. It's just I always forget
[18:38] how to make this dot appear on my screen that
[18:41] helps me point it. You know what I'm talking about
[18:43] Carol. So if you look at the large complex of
[18:46] property under the word peak to peak John and then
[18:49] you go just south of that to the blob that
[18:54] has the hatching that separated from the larger area totally
[18:59] just bombing this word Tucker is do you, does that
[19:04] make sense? Yeah. Thank you. The small blob under the
[19:06] big blob. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Heidi? Yes. Uh, Trace
[19:12] Baker Posac. Another question pertaining to the map here. Looking
[19:18] at the, um, extent of lions north in longitude. It
[19:24] seems to have a lot of the characteristics of several
[19:28] other distinct districts. So could you give us very briefly,
[19:34] um, why lions is not too districts. Why isn't too
[19:42] district? Yeah. Thanks for that question, Trace. We thought about
[19:45] that. And the reason we ended up grouping them in
[19:49] the way that they are is because of that rural
[19:53] urban characteristic because lions is still really, it's pretty easy
[19:59] to get to lions, um, from lions to Longmont. It's,
[20:04] it doesn't really, you're still, it's rule, you know, but
[20:06] it's definitely not like you're at the mountains yet. So
[20:10] it's easy for us to get to. It's easy for
[20:12] us to access operationally to patrol, um, and then a
[20:16] similar use of the lands in that area is kind
[20:21] of like, I come from Longmont and I'm going to
[20:22] go hike it high. Um, so kind of a similar
[20:26] visitor use pattern as well. The little bit of an
[20:29] outliers kind of the ag piece on the north part
[20:32] and we recognize that. But we thought, what a great
[20:35] way to weave those two components into the model. Okay.
[20:39] Thank you. Okay. I want to speak briefly to some
[20:44] of the operational pressures that we have, um, at peak
[20:48] to peak. So what you're looking at here is the
[20:52] map of visitation in quarter three of last year. So
[20:56] this is just a snapshot of a quarter. And I
[20:59] know might not look like, Oh, you know, only 50,
[21:01] 000 visitors, you know, that's not, you know, anything compared
[21:05] to the 89, 000 in the Boulder Foothills, but it
[21:09] doesn't quite reflect accurately the pressure's up there because we
[21:12] also manage the HESI and 4th of July trailhead. And
[21:16] that sees an annual use of 48, 000 visitors, which
[21:20] is all contained in that one seasonal area. Additionally, the
[21:24] only two parks we have up there are caribou and
[21:27] mud lake and a caribou doesn't open until June. So
[21:31] all of the visitor use happens in a very tight
[21:34] compressed timeline and it is busy. And that area actually
[21:38] also receives the first, the highest number of out of
[21:42] town visitors, as well as first time visitors and lots
[21:45] of family groups. So it's lots of education, lots of
[21:48] enforcement. Um, and it's also, um, when you're thinking about,
[21:54] you know, taking care of people when they're out hiking
[21:58] unfamiliar landscapes and emergencies happen, even if they're not on
[22:02] our property, our rangers are often called to assist because
[22:06] law enforcement, fire, they're far away in this area. And
[22:10] sometimes our resident ranger is the closest person there to
[22:14] help in an emergency. And so rangers spend a lot
[22:17] of time in this space, um, just making sure everyone
[22:20] is okay and safe. And, um, lastly, just the level
[22:26] of service need is really high. Like we have to
[22:28] drive a long way here to make sure the trash
[22:31] cans are empty to make sure the trailheads are clean.
[22:34] And so the attention and need, um, in this district.
[22:42] Okay. So I gave you kind of the benefit of
[22:45] community engagement in the district model. But what would be
[22:49] our approach actually doing the peak to peak, uh, management
[22:54] plan. And so I mentioned the two prong approach of
[22:57] community, um, engagement and place - based engagement. And I
[23:04] want to stress that we have not begun community engagement.
[23:07] I'll talk about that in a bit. We don't have
[23:09] a communications plan. Um, so we would love your ideas
[23:12] in that space. But to give you an idea, the
[23:15] County - wide engagement that will help us understand that
[23:19] broad system level values that we all share the climate
[23:23] resilience, the wildlife protection, uh, trail demand across districts, overall
[23:28] open space priorities. Everyone's going to care about that. And
[23:31] so you'll see types of engagement that are like the
[23:35] Countywide Online surveys, um, open houses, town halls. Um, email
[23:40] newsletter, all of those things, um, that are really targeted
[23:44] at everyone in the county. And then place base engagement.
[23:47] We're really focused on the mountain communities and adjacent, uh,
[23:51] landowners, including our other public land partners up there, such
[23:55] as CPW, um, and U. S. Forest service. And that's
[24:00] really conversations about the experience of being and living on
[24:04] that landscape. So the people that live there understand the
[24:08] visitor pressures. They understand congestion. They understand the emergency response.
[24:13] Um, wildlife disturbance, um, so meeting directly with them through
[24:18] local forums, community conversations, filled visits, um, that will help
[24:24] us ensure that we're capturing that lived experience. The cultural
[24:28] context of the area and their local priorities. And we
[24:31] really believe that using both approach is will give us
[24:35] a more balance process. So Countywide input that reflects those
[24:39] shared values and place - based conversations that ground the
[24:43] plan and the realities of the district. And just to
[24:48] double underline the point, of course, anyone can participate in
[24:51] any of these processes. Okay. So your participation. Here's, um,
[25:02] some of the concepts that we have for you. And
[25:07] I'd love to hear your feedback today when we're done
[25:10] about the model, the pilot and ways you'd like to
[25:13] be involved throughout the process. So you'll be seeing a
[25:16] lot of me in the future, hopefully on time, next
[25:20] time. I thank you, Tom. I really appreciate your understanding.
[25:28] And so all in all return when we're ready to
[25:31] formally kick off the process, but I'll also be giving
[25:35] you presentations throughout the process on key milestones. Um, I
[25:39] also hope that we can all get our boots and
[25:42] backpacks on and go on site visits to different areas
[25:45] over the district together. And then of course anytime you
[25:49] want to dig deeper into a component, um, that you're
[25:53] not seeing on the schedule for whatever reason, you can
[25:56] always request that presentation through the open comet period at
[25:59] this meeting. So, um, of
[26:09] course, the one thing that I do want to point
[26:11] out is we, for those of you that were here
[26:14] when we did East Boulder Creek or the weed plan
[26:16] always at the end of this process, we present, uh,
[26:20] draft plan to you for your recommendation to the board.
[26:24] And that is when the public feedback is taken. Okay.
[26:31] So what are our next steps? Do you like that,
[26:34] Carol? I had a little fun. So I want to
[26:39] emphasize now that we were at the very beginning of
[26:41] this process, uh, we just arrived at the trailhead. We're
[26:46] getting our gear in order. We're checking our water bottle,
[26:49] making sure our offline maps are downloaded. Like all of
[26:52] the things that you need to do before you start
[26:54] a climb. So the board gave us this direction on
[26:58] Tuesday. And so we have not begun anything. We have
[27:01] not begun a baseline analysis. We have not begun scoping
[27:04] the district. We haven't started our planning of community engagement.
[27:08] We haven't started conversations with any of our partners. We
[27:11] haven't looked at management options. I just want to emphasize
[27:14] that. We're in the planning to plan part of the
[27:18] process. So we're working on, actually I just started the
[27:23] RFP for a planning consultant to help support. We are,
[27:27] I'll have to develop a project charter, uh, sequence tasks
[27:32] milestone. I love a good gant chart. Critical path. Like
[27:36] all of the things that have to happen before you
[27:39] can actually start planning. So that means I'm going to
[27:43] need to need time. I'm going to need patience. All
[27:46] of that takes a lot of work and is a
[27:48] huge lift to get all those things in order so
[27:52] you can actually explain to people what the process is
[27:55] going to look like and how they can be involved
[27:58] and who you hope to talk to. So I, I
[28:02] stress all of that because, um, we've really just couldn't
[28:07] start anything because we can't get ahead of the board.
[28:10] So after that board direction, now we can do the
[28:13] planning to plan part. So this is the time to
[28:17] get organized, um, and to build a thoughtful project before
[28:21] we kick off in the fall. So at the kickoff,
[28:25] I'll be like, hello Pozak. I'm here as promised kicking
[28:29] off the peak to peak management planning process. And I'll
[28:33] present the timeline, the milestones, the engagement and communications plan
[28:38] for your review and feedback. And only afterwards will the
[28:42] work begin. So that's when we tighten the backpack and
[28:47] start the hike up the mountain. So I just wanted
[28:50] to clarify that that's how this process will go. All
[28:56] right. So, um, I would love to hear questions feedback,
[29:03] um, thoughts that you had. I provided a lot of
[29:06] material in the attachments to the memo tonight that goes
[29:10] in a lot of detail. And I have two other
[29:14] PowerPoints with many other slides that I'm happy to show.
[29:17] That would be helpful to clarify any questions that you
[29:19] might have. So thanks for your time and attention. Thank
[29:22] you, Heidi. Uh, do you have those PowerPoints now or
[29:27] is that for future meeting. Oh, I have them now.
[29:29] So I have the PowerPoints that I presented to the
[29:32] board at the two work sessions. And you can access
[29:35] them through the link that I put in your memo,
[29:38] but I can also send them to Nick in a
[29:41] PDF format if you want to see them. Okay. Um,
[29:44] I would appreciate it. I know I was only able
[29:47] to make the, um, 21st, the June 21st session virtually.
[29:52] So, but others may want to see those. Yes. Okay.
[29:56] So, and I was unable to open one of the
[29:59] links. So PDF would be nice. Okay. You got it.
[30:02] Okay. So POSAC, your questions and comments for Heidi. Carol.
[30:10] Yes, Carol Byerley. Bosak. So thank you, Heidi. You're up
[30:19] to here with this because I just watched, I spent
[30:20] the afternoon watching the County Commissioners receive your recommendations. And
[30:28] my first reaction is why not do this. I mean,
[30:31] why not do this? It makes, it makes a lot
[30:32] of sense. And one of the most interesting reasons to
[30:35] me is all of the, um. All of those sites
[30:39] that fall between the cracks, a 64 percent that's not
[30:42] part of the planning. And I'm thinking that a lot
[30:46] of that, isn't that agricultural land too? And I'm wondering
[30:50] how much agricultural land there is in peak to peak.
[30:54] And that's something that my heart is growing. As I
[30:59] watch our environment just collapse environment. So I would be
[31:04] interested in, in, um, your thoughts on that and whether
[31:08] or not we should start with a pilot that includes
[31:12] agriculture. And as a really, um, important way to bring
[31:16] those unplanned sites in areas. Yeah. Thanks for that, Carol.
[31:21] So peek to peek does contain some agricultural use, uh,
[31:27] mostly ranching. Okay. But it's definitely not like our irrigated
[31:31] ag in the bread basket. And the reason staff recommended
[31:35] peak to peak were for all the reasons that I
[31:37] talked about today. And I don't know if you remember,
[31:41] uh, that part in the PowerPoint where I talked about
[31:43] policy coverage. So, uh, for those of you that haven't,
[31:48] uh, watched it basically, uh, the policy that we have
[31:53] a cropland policy that helps our guide our tenets on
[31:59] how we expect them to make decisions related to that
[32:03] policy. It does not define the, what we're doing on
[32:08] the landscape. That's the management plan. So there definitely is
[32:11] a huge need and a gap there, but they do
[32:14] have that policy to give them some additional guidance. And
[32:19] because of all the pressures and peak to peak, that's
[32:22] why we recommended that first. Now a good part about
[32:26] this process is after we're done with peak to peak,
[32:30] if the commissioners choose to adopt the model, um, approve
[32:36] the plan, approve it with modifications. It's really about the
[32:39] model. Then where we'll be setting a schedule of updates.
[32:44] So I could see a future where in your recommendation
[32:48] to the board on the adoption of the plan, you
[32:51] could also make a, you know, recommendation on the next
[32:55] district to go to. So we anticipate about two years
[32:59] for every district planning cycle. So we could say makes
[33:04] sense to now go to the bread basket or South
[33:07] County dry lands. And then we'll have an order of
[33:10] operations, um, and so we'll know what district is next
[33:14] in line. And so we could definitely take that forward
[33:18] to the board for their consideration. Um, thank you. And,
[33:23] and, um, if I can ask another question. Certainly there
[33:27] was discussion among the commissioners about, um, being behind in
[33:32] the planning and acquiring properties and people saying, what the
[33:35] heck's going on with this property. And, um, is that,
[33:41] are lots of those up in peak to peak? Is
[33:43] that going to help us get caught up. Yes. So
[33:47] it will because all of those properties will now be
[33:50] addressed within their district cycle. So not only are we
[33:55] going to be reexamining caribou and mud lake, but we'll
[33:58] also be able to plan for all of the areas
[34:00] that we've been saying, Hey, closed until management plan or
[34:04] we'll figure out if there's what's going to be, you
[34:07] know, the long - term vision of this plan during
[34:08] the management plan process. And so you can think up
[34:12] and peak to peak. That's namely Reynolds Ranch and Tucker.
[34:15] But the other areas up there, like we have a
[34:17] whole bunch of parcels north of Gold Hill as well.
[34:20] Um, that could, you know, that this will give us
[34:23] the opportunity to examine. And without District Planning, I don't
[34:27] know Carol winner if we ever would have even got
[34:29] to those. Because that would be a separate. Okay. Now
[34:33] we're going to turn because we've been approving, purchasing these
[34:36] little inholdings. And this would capture them as well. It
[34:41] would. Okay. Let me see if I. Okay. Thank you.
[34:46] You're welcome. I'm trying to see if I have a
[34:49] Joan. Well, one thing I really like that you have
[34:53] now is that some older open space parcels have accessible
[34:58] online the management plans. And they are sometimes old, but
[35:03] they list the plants animals ecosystems and whether they're common
[35:09] or rare and how they should be managed. And it
[35:12] would be nice to keep as much as possible online
[35:16] for people to look this up. Unless of course it's
[35:20] so rare. You don't want people to know where to
[35:23] find it. Thanks for that, Joan. Um, real quickly, Carol,
[35:27] I just want to point this out that I think
[35:28] this gets to a little bit of your question because
[35:31] it's management plan gaps by percentage of acres owned. And
[35:37] then what's covered by the cropland policy. So it illustrates
[35:41] that point. And good. And then to speak, um, to
[35:45] your point, Zhang, I think what I would like to
[35:48] see, because that level of detail and old plans, I
[35:53] mean, you could always like go to the appendix and
[35:55] you would see like all the list of plants. And
[35:58] the species there. And it was wonderful, but it would
[36:01] also make the plan like 300 pages long. And so
[36:05] what I would like to see is some digital solution
[36:07] to that. And I'm going to be talking to our
[36:10] data solutions team. Like what could we put online so
[36:14] you could go to a browser and a viewer and
[36:18] click on an area and see all that information there.
[36:22] I search for a term. Yeah. Our search for a
[36:24] term put a glossary. Say, where does this plant? Where
[36:27] do we have instances of this plant occurring, for example?
[36:33] Yeah, I think that would be great. Cause that level
[36:38] of detail on a district scale, like you can't lose
[36:41] that level of detail, but does it necessarily belong in
[36:46] the appendix of the management plan or is there an
[36:49] opportunity to reference where that lives digitally so it can
[36:53] stay dynamic and updated? Right. And I assume, I mean,
[36:57] then when you're considering purchasing a parcel. So it's already
[37:04] somewhere. We do, we have it. We just need to
[37:06] put it together in a different way. Yeah. Joan. John
[37:12] White, Pozak. If each one of these is going to
[37:15] take two years, uh, why is, for example, bread basket
[37:21] in river, why are they separate? Brad Basket has two
[37:24] rivers in it. Except this year. Um, it's just, it
[37:30] doesn't seem different. Yeah. Thanks, John. So one thing first
[37:37] too that these are proposed districts. So the commissioner said
[37:40] you can proceed with the boundaries of what we see
[37:42] as the peak to peak area. But the actual refinement
[37:46] of the districts will happen at the end of this
[37:49] process. So not only am I going to be delivering
[37:53] a management plan, I'm also going to deliver the results
[37:57] of how the model itself worked for everyone's feedback and
[38:03] review. So there could be adjustments in the, um, the
[38:06] lines. That's one reason I'm hiring a planning consultant. It's
[38:11] not only help us with the management plan process, but
[38:13] also to kind of bring their national or their best
[38:16] practice in planning and look at our model, um, and
[38:20] help us, you know, talk through it and what adjustments
[38:23] we might want to make. We had pretty good reason
[38:25] for drawing the line where we did because it's the
[38:28] switch between the irrigated high value ag. And where things
[38:32] really get much more urban and dry. So that's why
[38:36] we have the line where we do. Could we adjust
[38:39] it? Absolutely. Any other Lauren. Yeah. Lauren Kelso. I can
[38:46] see why you're excited about this hiding. I am too.
[38:49] I think, um, I'll just start by saying I think
[38:51] this is a really important step. On so many levels
[38:54] that you already pointed out. So I won't reiterate them.
[38:57] But as far as ecosystem management and things like that
[39:00] makes a lot of sense. I have, I think my
[39:04] first thought for you as you enter this planning piece.
[39:09] These timelines kind of freak me out. I think I'm
[39:13] just kind of wondering if you can talk us and
[39:15] probably anybody who's listening through what happens in the interim
[39:21] for all these pieces that aren't under active management. And
[39:25] I, I am also going to push back just a
[39:27] little bit around the policies, not a plan. And so
[39:30] I'm going to, I think we got to kind of
[39:32] think about how do we get these things wrapped into
[39:35] a good plan so that we're moving on the right
[39:37] direction before 12 years passes? Yeah, I hear you. So
[39:42] management planning integrates policy direction. And this process does not
[39:49] substitute for addressing emerging issues or needs. And one of
[39:53] the reasons we are so behind is because that's all
[39:56] we've been doing is addressing, emerging issues and needs. And
[40:00] the flood, you know, we had the flood that put
[40:04] us, we didn't do any planning for almost a decade.
[40:08] And actually when I started four and a half years
[40:11] ago, um, I still remember one of my staff saying,
[40:15] okay, here's my list of flood recovery projects. And that
[40:18] was 2022. And I'm like, wait, when was your flood?
[40:21] And they're like 2013. And I was like, Oh, wow.
[40:26] Cause that's how anyone that's ever worked with FEMA and
[40:30] like, it's a thing. It really takes a lot of
[40:32] capacity. And so what will have to do with both
[40:37] for a while is we'll have to start this planning,
[40:40] this larger scale planning, get these lands under a management
[40:43] plan methodically to your intervals and still deal with emerging
[40:48] conditions. And then hopefully after we've been able to go
[40:51] through the whole planning cycle, what we're doing is checking
[40:54] back in and refreshing that district plan. And so if
[40:58] there's an emerging need, I'm not going to say, okay,
[41:01] wait eight years for that district plan. It'll be like,
[41:04] okay, let's check in on the plan and give it
[41:06] a refresh to meet that. Emerging need. Is that always
[41:11] going, are we always going to be able to sync
[41:13] those two things up perfectly? No, but it'll be a
[41:16] lot closer and a lot easier. So we'll still tackle
[41:20] those issues as they arise. We're just hoping that on
[41:24] the other side of the mountain, um, that we will
[41:27] have the whole County addressed, which under the existing model
[41:32] now, like would just be completely unattainable. I think it'd
[41:37] be interesting to, um, as your meeting with consultants and
[41:42] working on those RFPs to maybe talk about duplicative efforts
[41:45] or what is the budget if we want to try
[41:47] to do two districts at once. Like if you have
[41:50] consulting, like I think that's worth, I know the staff
[41:53] capacity issues here and things like that. But if you
[41:55] are bringing in outside consultants to help with the process
[41:58] or something, if there's, if there's any way to work
[42:01] that timeline, um, I think it'd be interesting to know.
[42:05] That's a really interesting idea, Laura. And I hadn't thought
[42:07] of that. Um, so let's chew through peak to peak.
[42:14] Right. And then, you know, maybe what it is after
[42:17] we have, because we're doing the two things now with
[42:20] vetting the model and doing the plan. So once the
[42:22] model is vetted and we're feeling confident and made the
[42:25] adjustments, um, based on lessons learned. It's a plug and
[42:30] play. Not that it's ever going to be, you know,
[42:32] simple or easy. Each district is represent so many of
[42:35] its own unique things. But yeah, if you have a
[42:37] model that you could and even ask and consultants about
[42:39] that, um, about like, Hey, as you're going through this
[42:43] process and do things like this, how it works. What
[42:46] would that look like? How do we, yeah. Yeah. Never
[42:50] know though. Don't know unless you ask. So thanks for
[42:52] that. Okay. Thanks for that. I'm an optimist. Yeah. I
[42:55] appreciate that. Just one, uh, when I have one or
[42:57] two other things, if that's okay. Um, one of the
[43:03] things I heard while Carol and I clearly know how
[43:06] to have a good time. I also listened to the
[43:07] commissioner hearing from the 21st. And I, you know, I
[43:11] heard a real push and pull there about sort of
[43:14] what is being prioritized out of all the priorities and
[43:18] goals of set out by open space. Um, and I
[43:23] think that's another thing as you work with consultants. They
[43:27] should be able to really, um, address that. As part
[43:32] of the plan. Like how are we prioritizing those are,
[43:37] yes, these are, these are them. You're familiar with them
[43:39] at this point. Right. Um, because it's real. It's a
[43:42] real conflict for decision making and budgetary constraints and all
[43:45] of those things. So like giving us some transparency around
[43:50] how resources are being spent to achieve the goals of
[43:53] these plans and really how is staff going to make
[43:59] hard decisions in times of lean resources. And I think
[44:04] about that both from the financial side of things and
[44:07] also like human resources and also our natural resources. So,
[44:13] um, that was my only other, it's not really a
[44:14] question, but just something I think that should be something
[44:17] that a consultant does for us. Um, is to sort
[44:20] of talk about how, how we grapple with these competing
[44:23] goals, um, as we go through the planning. Effort. Lauren,
[44:28] are you thinking of like what's a decision process looked
[44:30] like or is it more like, here are all the
[44:34] things that we want to do and staff is recommending
[44:39] we prioritize these things for these reasons. Yeah. I mean,
[44:44] the easiest and obvious example for me comes up around
[44:46] making choices between recreation, conservation and working lands. Yeah. Right.
[44:52] You come up with those, those are conflicts so not
[44:55] conflicts, but you know what I mean. Priorities compete priorities
[44:59] a lot. So as a county and even as a
[45:03] district, um, what are we prioritizing each of those districts?
[45:08] I actually see a lot of opportunity in all of
[45:11] these different in your different, um, landscapes, if you will,
[45:16] or, uh, to say, Hey, this is a, this is
[45:19] the bread basket of our community. We really need to
[45:22] be prioritizing when push comes to shove. Uh, what our
[45:27] producers need in this space. Over here, this is a
[45:31] primary recreation district. We sometimes will need to prioritize. And
[45:35] I don't know, maybe that's too bold, but I just,
[45:37] I think we've got to, or maybe the different framework
[45:40] for decision making, um, there, as you guys go through
[45:43] this, does that make sense? It does learn. Thanks for
[45:46] that feedback. I think one thing that we can do
[45:49] is be, um, very transparent about our framework for decision
[45:54] making when it comes to like where we're putting recreation
[46:00] and how we're trying to promote connectivity. Like I feel
[46:05] like I think that is a priority. It's like connectivity
[46:09] and like different opportunities, a range of opportunities. I think
[46:13] the struggle lies in that staff can give recommendations on
[46:18] priorities, but the board is the one that has to
[46:21] like to either affirm that recommendation or say, thank you
[46:28] very much. This is what I want to focus on.
[46:31] And so sometimes that doesn't come to the end of
[46:34] the process, which is a little bit unfortunate. Um, but
[46:38] that's kind of the reality in which we work. And
[46:41] so I think one of the things, if you listen
[46:43] to the conversation on the 21st, the reason we brought
[46:46] this all up is because we were just interested to
[46:49] hear what they, they wanted to have the conversation. And
[46:51] so you heard that conversation. And I would encourage the
[46:55] rest of the Pozac members to discuss, you know, to
[46:58] listen to that. Um, and there's always an opportunity to
[47:01] go to the open public comment section of board meetings
[47:06] and kind of talk about that as well because they
[47:09] rely on community members to, to say like, Hey, what
[47:12] are your priorities for parks and open space? And I
[47:15] see Jason at the table wanting to potentially say something
[47:19] right here. Jason Suk, Director of Parks on Open Space.
[47:26] I'm not trying to interrupt. You're fun here. Um, but,
[47:29] uh, it's a good question. It's something that we've been
[47:32] thinking of. And I think that district planning gives us
[47:36] a chance to think about those priorities. But think about
[47:39] them differently in different places. So if we're thinking, you
[47:42] know, just on a piece of paper here and let's
[47:44] say you had an exercise where you prioritized some of
[47:47] these over another, that may not be true in different
[47:50] places. And so I think, thinking about it, not parcel
[47:54] by parcel, not across the entire County, but, you know,
[47:57] in, in specific place - based areas makes a lot
[48:00] of sense. And then I, the other bit that I'm
[48:02] really excited about is the community engagement part of the
[48:05] process. So, you know, we're thinking about priorities, but let's,
[48:08] let's hear from, from people and get their feedback as
[48:13] to, um, what, what we think we should do in
[48:16] different districts. So I'm looking forward to it. It's a
[48:19] bit of a road, but thanks for letting me interrupt.
[48:22] Yes. And it's a mountain. Hi, Deed. Trace Baker Posac.
[48:29] And I'm sorry. Good question. Oh. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay.
[48:37] Why don't you go ahead. Christine Johnson Posack. Um, I'm
[48:42] really happy about this because on a lot of the
[48:46] tours, this is something that I have engaged with staff
[48:50] on and pushed about, you know, I've asked, what is
[48:54] the short mid long range plan for this parcel? And,
[49:00] um, often staff is honest. Um, they don't know. And
[49:06] I, I, I think that this is a way to
[49:10] transition to managing, um, County Land in a different way.
[49:16] Um, I want to underscore, uh, what Lauren and John
[49:20] were pushing at, I'm really concerned about a 10 or
[49:23] 12 year cycle of four, um, whoever's hanging out there
[49:30] at the end. I also, um, I really want to,
[49:38] um. Maybe I'll ask an open - ended question. Um,
[49:43] and, and, um, I'm, I mean this in the friendliest
[49:47] way possible, what have you, what has been learned from
[49:51] some of the feedback, um, sessions, um, in the, in
[49:57] the time that I've been on, on PocSac that will
[50:02] make this useful for both. Staff and impactful for the
[50:08] community. Christine, could you explain like in the context of
[50:15] what components? So I feel like, um, the way that
[50:19] you gather feedback has been evolving because I think that
[50:23] there have been, um, a couple of instances where, um,
[50:28] the community hasn't felt like, um, they were captured in
[50:33] the intended process. So, so, so prairie run is an
[50:38] example. And I think that you, you personally handle that
[50:41] really well. Like, um, there were some, some rounds of
[50:46] going back to make sure to include everyone. And I'm
[50:50] just, I see this as a process. It's going to
[50:53] involve a whole lot of community engagement. And I am
[50:56] really interested in both the County Wide and the District
[51:01] specific. And I'm, I'm curious about what has been learned
[51:07] and what you see coming. Okay. Thanks, Christine. So here's
[51:12] what I know as a planner is planning moves at
[51:17] the speed of trust. And when proposing planning timelines. Sometimes.
[51:26] Leadership would like a shorter timeline. So you have to
[51:30] work with what you're given, which often means the public
[51:34] process. People were busy, right? So, you know, when you're
[51:40] two thirds away or through a planning process and somebody
[51:44] that's directly interested or impacted by that planning process just
[51:48] now hears of it, that's a problem. And so you
[51:53] have to have enough time in a planning process to
[51:58] properly engage with community, stakeholders adjacent partners, internal departments. Like
[52:08] and that takes time. And it's, so the, the benefit
[52:15] that I see with District Planning and the, uh, and
[52:19] this approach is that will be able to create an
[52:23] engagement model that the community will understand. And we're not
[52:28] like relaunching this new thing every time. And Hey, you
[52:33] know, we're over here in all the noise of social
[52:35] media and all the newsletters that everyone automatically deletes. Like
[52:40] people will start like be able to dial into the
[52:44] pace and tempo of our planning process. And then they'll
[52:49] know like, Hey, maybe I don't care about peak to
[52:52] peak, but I know this district is next. And so
[52:55] that's when I'm going to read, start reading those newsletters.
[52:58] And so this really gives us the opportunity to start
[53:02] building sustained trust with our community and just sustain it
[53:06] throughout all of the districts. So almost an ongoing engagement
[53:10] cycle is what I'm hoping for. Because then we're just
[53:13] talking about planning all the time, which I personally appreciate,
[53:19] but we've got to have that dialogue with our community.
[53:21] And so if you're thinking of like lessons learned and
[53:23] feedback, that's what it is. It's a dialogue. And we
[53:26] haven't had a mechanism for that. So when people tell
[53:30] us something, it's like, well, you know, if it's an
[53:33] emerging issue, we're going to work hard to address it.
[53:35] But we can't tackle everything that's a lower priority, if
[53:42] that makes sense. Thank you. Joan. And I just want
[53:49] to also say that I think the district planning method
[53:53] is a good one. And also that I know we
[53:56] have parcels that there's no management plan or not much.
[54:00] And but I'm glad we snapped up those parcels when
[54:04] they were available. Because the more time goes by the
[54:07] harder it is to, you know, obtain these environmentally. Precious
[54:15] parcels. A great jungler. We're very blessed to have the
[54:19] 110, 000 acres that we do in fee title or
[54:22] conservation easement. Okay. Thank you. Terry Spaker Posac. I actually
[54:29] have a number of questions and comments here. And I
[54:32] know it may be too early for this. But as
[54:35] part of your planning, um, I'd very much like you
[54:39] to define metrics to decide whether or not this peak
[54:45] to peak is a successful pilot or not. And so
[54:49] you can make go no go decision based on metrics
[54:52] or in part on metrics. Would like to remind Posac
[54:57] that if you do make comments to the County Commissioners
[55:00] through their website, um, you're very much welcome to do
[55:05] that. But please do so as an individual, uh, and
[55:08] not as member of post Act. Don't identify your self
[55:11] as such or put in a disclaimer that you're speaking
[55:15] for yourself. Um, the big thing here, um, is that
[55:21] when the commissioners limited public comments to decision items, um,
[55:29] we're, you know, as post sac, we're not really getting
[55:31] the public input that we use to get on items
[55:37] that you will be bringing to us, uh, during your
[55:39] process here. And, uh, my experience over the years on
[55:46] Possac has been that the dynamic is very different between
[55:51] what people bring to post sac in this room and
[55:55] what, how people fill out surveys and go, go to
[55:59] your, uh, work sessions that, you know, you handle like
[56:03] you did with the, um, uh, bike trail, uh, pilot.
[56:09] So, um, you know, I would hope that there could
[56:12] be some way for Posac to get, uh, public input,
[56:17] uh, throughout this process, because there's, there are voices there
[56:21] that we're not hearing. So when you had, you're on
[56:29] one of your slides, you identified or want to identify
[56:33] Countywide stakeholder groups. And so I wanted to clear Postsac
[56:38] is a stakeholder with the same statuses, any other group
[56:41] that you might identify. And then for, um, a question
[56:50] actually to Poc A, our bylaws allow calling study sessions
[56:56] and creating subcommittees. And it sounds like this is going
[56:59] to be a very big and very important, you know,
[57:05] process for the county. And whether, um, participating in this
[57:12] pilot, uh, would it be worthwhile for us to either
[57:16] convene study sessions or a subcommittee? And I know that
[57:21] will mean extra work for us. Um, but it might
[57:25] be, uh, very useful, uh, as input, uh, to county
[57:30] decision making, um, in my, I think seven years now
[57:34] on post sac, I have not seen a study session
[57:37] or a subcommittee. And the bylaws don't tell us how
[57:42] to do that. So we'd have to make it up,
[57:44] uh, as we go. But, um, we're like post sac
[57:48] members to think about this as the planning proceeds. You
[57:51] know, it's too early to, uh, try and set up
[57:54] anything right now. But that is available for our decision
[57:58] making. Yes, John. I have a question about that. Is
[58:04] there three or more of us together? We can't talk
[58:07] about it in open session. How does that work? I'm
[58:10] certainly willing to volunteer my time to help with this.
[58:15] We may need to get legal advice on that. But
[58:19] if we, you know, but as bringing up, I mean,
[58:25] establishing a, uh, study session or a subcommittee that would
[58:29] be a, um, a legal post Ac meeting. And as
[58:34] I said, we'll need to figure out how to do
[58:36] that if it comes up. Lord. Yeah. Um, Lauren Kelso,
[58:44] I love that idea, Trace and thanks for bringing it
[58:46] up. I think it'd be also interesting as staff moves
[58:49] to our work to think about what, uh, types of
[58:51] working groups or subcommittees would be helpful to your work,
[58:55] you know, like helping to identify things that feel sticky
[58:58] or that you foresee being tricky to navigate and utilizing
[59:01] this board to do that. Okay. Thank you. Carol. He
[59:04] could self - identify too, but if you helpful, they
[59:06] have their ideas. Carol. Carol Byrnee. And I've been staff
[59:11] for a long time in various organizations. And when I
[59:14] hear subcommittees and work groups, I think, Oh my God,
[59:17] more work for me. So I was, but I'm thinking
[59:22] at this very early stage, cause you've been talking about
[59:25] community engagement, community engagement. That's what we are supposed to
[59:29] be. And so think of a way of engaging POSAC
[59:33] by assigning us some of this work or saying this
[59:37] is where a lot of this community engagement. And that,
[59:40] that word is just, it's education. It's, it's receiving of
[59:45] views. It's, it's a lot of different things. Um, but,
[59:50] but fitting POSAC into the process rather than just coming
[59:55] and telling us stuff every once in a while. I
[59:57] think might be a way to help rather than harass.
[1:00:04] This system. And, um, and that's what we're for. We're,
[1:00:08] we're like, um, Oh, I don't even want to say
[1:00:11] this valve. Pressure release valve. I was thinking more uterine.
[1:00:17] But I was thinking, you know, it was, you know,
[1:00:21] protecting the feed. Anyway, so, you know, stop. But, but
[1:00:29] information gathering as a way. So anyway, that's I've said,
[1:00:33] certainly said enough. But let's think about how POSAC can
[1:00:38] be part of the process instead of added on. Harassment,
[1:00:43] which, which is some of the tones of some of
[1:00:45] these, we will advise you, we will advise you. We
[1:00:47] want to be part of the system. We don't want
[1:00:48] to just be advised. And I think I speak for
[1:00:52] us. You speak from me, Carol. And, and if we
[1:00:56] can be, and so plug us in on the engagement
[1:01:00] part. And that can be study sessions where people can
[1:01:04] talk. We can be sent places to listen to people,
[1:01:08] that kind of thing. That's my suggestion. Okay. Thank you.
[1:01:12] Thanks to all of you. And I, what I can
[1:01:16] do though, is take this feedback. And since I have
[1:01:20] to plan to plan, I can make a plan. And
[1:01:24] see what you all think about the ideas included in
[1:01:26] there. Like I don't want to jump ahead and be
[1:01:28] like, Oh yeah, I'm going to do these eight things.
[1:01:30] I want to make that plan and use your feedback
[1:01:34] and then bring something to you for you to look
[1:01:36] at. And then you can tell me if you support
[1:01:39] it or if you want modifications. Cause I have lots
[1:01:41] of things that I'm thinking of. But I mean, I
[1:01:44] don't even have a project charter yet. So this is
[1:01:47] exactly what I was hoping for tonight. Thank you. Okay.
[1:01:49] So in final comment for me, Trace Baker Posec is
[1:01:54] that when we were discussing the alternate trails pilot, there
[1:01:59] was a survey. And with the caution that it was
[1:02:03] not, um, and I use the word scientific, which was,
[1:02:06] uh, what we were told. And, um, you know, I
[1:02:11] would advise you to think about doing a statistically valid
[1:02:18] survey this time. You know, again, because the sweep is
[1:02:21] much greater than the trail's pilot. And so, you know,
[1:02:28] maybe another consultant, but, um, I think that would be
[1:02:31] worthwhile. Trace, do you see that county wide or by
[1:02:35] district? Um, I'd say right now, just for the, uh,
[1:02:40] peak to peak pilot and see how it goes. And
[1:02:46] then decide whether you want to do it with the
[1:02:48] rest of the streaks. Yeah. Thanks for that feedback. I
[1:02:52] know it's very expensive, but we can definitely look at
[1:02:55] that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any other. Lauren?
[1:02:59] Yeah. I have a cup just a couple more little
[1:03:01] things. In my notes, I had a question about, um,
[1:03:05] how you see these plans interacting with all the other
[1:03:07] plans? You guys have many plans. So if you, um,
[1:03:10] not necessarily in terms of parks and open space, but,
[1:03:14] you know, the climate action plan out there. There are
[1:03:16] the policy documents, things like that. How do you, how
[1:03:19] do you see those integrating into this process? Yeah. So
[1:03:23] depending on who owns that associated and related plan, so
[1:03:28] like, um, for example, we hope to work a lot
[1:03:30] with Oscar in this process. And internally that has a
[1:03:33] lot of climate, um, goals and related plans. And so
[1:03:37] that would be in a like information exchange and consultation
[1:03:43] with them. And so when we are, you know, discussing
[1:03:46] items that are related to climate resilience and sustainability, we
[1:03:51] would seek their feedback and guidance from not only staff
[1:03:55] and community, but also what that plan says. Because that
[1:03:58] plan is supposed to represent the community feedback. And so
[1:04:01] we would do the same with all of our plans.
[1:04:03] So we're not going to, you know, come out and
[1:04:05] say, Hey, we're going to manage this land and this
[1:04:08] radically different way than what our policy prescribes. It'll be
[1:04:11] like using that planner policy to give us guidance. Great.
[1:04:16] Thanks. And then sort of similar question, but, um, we
[1:04:18] did receive a public comment, I think through the portal
[1:04:21] earlier today. And they had, uh, they were all in
[1:04:25] favor of this, this that you guys are doing, but
[1:04:28] also had sort of questions about working with partner groups
[1:04:31] and other like landscape planning landscape level planning organizations that
[1:04:35] have done work in this specifically in the peak to
[1:04:37] peak area. So that'll just be part of the engagement
[1:04:40] process, I assume. Cor. That'll be a part of the
[1:04:42] plan that I'm going to create when I'm preparing to
[1:04:46] plan for the plan. No, so we haven't even started
[1:04:51] yet. But that's a key. I mean, that is must.
[1:04:56] We, we could never go up here and do our
[1:04:58] thing without connecting to those partners. So I really look
[1:05:02] forward to a lot of those conversations because we haven't
[1:05:04] had a chance to, you know, touch base with a
[1:05:07] lot of those folks in a while. Um, and the
[1:05:10] forest service, especially, they look pretty different than they did
[1:05:13] just five years ago. And so it'll give us an
[1:05:16] opportunity to, you know, talk with both our federal and
[1:05:20] state partners. Um, as well as all of our local
[1:05:23] stakeholder groups, um, and have. And so I, again, I
[1:05:26] don't want to jump ahead of the plan I'm creating,
[1:05:29] but I see like kind of this like advisory committee
[1:05:32] sub committee, like, you know, I see that in this
[1:05:35] process. Because we just have to have some way to
[1:05:38] have those focus conversations. Great. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. Heidi finally.
[1:05:44] Thank you. You know why this was the only item
[1:05:46] on the agenda tonight? Well, thank you. And thank you
[1:05:50] very much. I think all of us who are looking
[1:05:52] forward to working with you on this for the next
[1:05:55] few years. Thank you. Thank you. Carol said is we
[1:06:00] want to be involved if we can help not to
[1:06:03] be another roadblocking room. The first thing I thought about
[1:06:07] was we'll be careful what you ask for because you'll,
[1:06:12] yeah, but no. Thank you so much for that. I
[1:06:15] appreciate it very much. Thank you. Okay. So, uh, Trace
[1:06:19] Baker Posac. The next three items on our agenda, uh,
[1:06:25] first post A questions or comments on topics, um, other
[1:06:30] than tonight's presentation. And other than our executive session, next
[1:06:36] Jason will give us a director's update. And then we
[1:06:40] will, um, enter Executive session for legal advice. So does
[1:06:45] anybody have anything? Christine. We've got, we've got our attorney
[1:06:54] Liana on and Leon, I wasn't sure. Did you need
[1:06:57] to make comments here. Yeah. I was trying to speak,
[1:07:01] but I don't know if anyone could hear me. Can
[1:07:02] you hear me? We can now. Yes. Oh, okay. Great.
[1:07:06] Yeah. This is Liana Lara More Assistant County Attorney. I
[1:07:09] apologize for not being there in the room. It would
[1:07:11] have been a lot easier for me to just answer
[1:07:13] your previous legal question right on the spot. But if
[1:07:16] you'd like, I could take just a minute to answer
[1:07:18] your questions around study sessions and subcommittees. It's pretty, I
[1:07:23] think straightforward. Okay. Thank you. Um, you know, I think
[1:07:27] it's a little early to, uh, answer that question right
[1:07:31] now. Um, because of where Heidi is in her planning
[1:07:34] process. So, so let's, um, when that comes up, you
[1:07:39] know, we can ask about that, um, later. Sound. Good.
[1:07:45] Okay. Thank you. Seeing a few minutes. Any other Carol.
[1:07:52] Carol Byrly. I just wanted to say I'm participating in
[1:07:56] the Olin Farm CSA this summer. And I just, we
[1:08:01] heard the dire, um, report on the water. But we
[1:08:05] are getting a wonderful variety of fresh produce every Thursday
[1:08:09] afternoon. And I just wanted to say these CSAs are
[1:08:12] a wonderful thing. And I really enjoy participating and supporting
[1:08:17] our local agriculture. And I'm learning all new, a lot
[1:08:21] of new vegetables too. I go, what is this? So
[1:08:26] Christine. Christine Johnson Posack. And I wanted to comment specifically
[1:08:34] on that because, um, I check in with, um, Mark
[1:08:38] Etrich periodically, because I'm doing, um, a pilot compost project
[1:08:44] on his land in conjunction with him. And, um, just
[1:08:49] wanted to acknowledge that, um, hauling water. They're hauling water
[1:08:55] in order to, um, they're hauling water and they're purchasing
[1:08:59] water and they've moved some crops actually and using some
[1:09:03] municipal water. And just I don't want, they're really doing
[1:09:09] an amazing job, but they're really existing in drought. And
[1:09:16] I would really like us to keep, um, drought at
[1:09:20] the forefront of like a topic that we are thinking
[1:09:25] about beyond just, um, this summer. So that's my two
[1:09:31] cents on that. Um, I, I wanted to mention something,
[1:09:35] um, that, that I, um, I engaged with, um, Nick
[1:09:41] about this and, um, I've, Dana Bove from front range
[1:09:48] eagles. Has sent us, um, periodically, um, a, an alternate
[1:09:55] trail real realignment proposal. And I have, um, I've met
[1:10:00] with him. I've talked with him a couple of times.
[1:10:03] I've gone through his data with him. And I would
[1:10:09] really like us to, and I believe that the, um,
[1:10:14] the proposal and an image of the proposal was sent
[1:10:18] to the rest of Posac. And I would like us
[1:10:22] to at some point, um, take more time to discuss
[1:10:26] this. This is a group that has, um, they were
[1:10:32] research going on at Homberg at the Holmberg Preserve. They
[1:10:37] have thousands of hours of observations and data about what's
[1:10:45] going on with, um, raptors, um, multiple species of concern
[1:10:51] at Holmberg, including Farouginous Hawks and Bald Eagles. And there
[1:10:56] is, um, they're making a proposal for, um, trail realignment
[1:11:04] in order to minimize disturbance to these, um, species of,
[1:11:14] um, of special concern. And they have some compelling data
[1:11:20] that they would like to share. And I, I would,
[1:11:24] um, it's, it's been interesting for me. It's been compelling
[1:11:29] for me looking at the, um, data about, um, the
[1:11:35] Raptors and about, um, trail use and what's going on
[1:11:40] with, um, not just nesting sites, but, um, what is
[1:11:46] the word. Roosting sites? But yeah, just how we can
[1:11:54] best balance agriculture, recreation and habitat. And I'm wondering
[1:12:04] if other folks have thoughts about what was sent and
[1:12:09] how we could possibly go forward on this. Let's go
[1:12:14] with, um, Joan? Well, my thought is that we shouldn't
[1:12:18] build any new trails because we don't know how long
[1:12:21] this particular nest is going to be there. But we
[1:12:24] shouldn't build any neutrals, especially not through a farmer's field.
[1:12:29] And also that, um, I feel that the whole thing
[1:12:34] is sort of like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic
[1:12:38] because these, these Cotton was are getting older. They're breaking
[1:12:42] down. These eagles have to move to other places. And
[1:12:45] I know it takes a long time to grow. Although
[1:12:48] not as long for Cottonwood, but there should be more
[1:12:51] of an effort to reestablish Cottonwoods. I know it will
[1:12:55] take a long time. But we're just, you know, they
[1:12:59] break down one at a time and maybe it's not
[1:13:02] appropriate for Cottonwoods anymore, but what we need is like
[1:13:06] more roosting sites, I would think, roosting and nesting sites.
[1:13:12] John. I had basically the same question. She did, but
[1:13:19] the, um. I guess it's questioned for you. When somebody
[1:13:23] put something on the POSEC website, the public does, um,
[1:13:30] does somebody besides POSAC look at it? Because if it's
[1:13:34] not on the agenda, we don't say much except for
[1:13:37] right here. I would agree that the Eagles should be
[1:13:43] protected. I don't, I agree with Joan that the, uh,
[1:13:47] new trail is not appropriate, but closing, you know, cradle
[1:13:51] board where it hits 104th might be appropriate. But how
[1:13:57] do we take input from the public? And I guess
[1:14:02] share it with you guys and get feedback. Is anything
[1:14:05] being done besides people talking to POSAC. Is that a
[1:14:12] question for Jason? Queen said for just chasen. Did there
[1:14:18] make any sense or am I? Yeah, absolutely. So I
[1:14:20] think what, Oh, this is Jason Suk, uh, director. S
[1:14:25] opening up there behind you. Good. Yeah. He can jump
[1:14:27] in on a couple other things too. I think on
[1:14:28] the, on the overall process, um, I believe we can
[1:14:33] also see those comments that come in. You know, there,
[1:14:36] we get a lot of feedback from the community. If
[1:14:39] the particular things that you want to dive deeper on,
[1:14:41] you just tell us. And those are things that we
[1:14:43] consider put on the agenda, discuss in this forum, discuss
[1:14:47] more formally. So if they're, you know, they, there could
[1:14:49] be a lot of different things, different topics that come
[1:14:51] up, um, some might peak your interest. Some you might
[1:14:54] want more detailed discussion on. And so I think I'd
[1:14:57] be open to, um, yeah, you just kind of discussing
[1:15:02] what makes sense that you want to speak to a
[1:15:04] little bit more. And if those are things that also
[1:15:06] kind of align with, um, you know, how we can
[1:15:08] strategically see this space, then, you know, we'd be happy
[1:15:12] to say on the process side. Yeah. Cause the thing
[1:15:17] was to Eagles. I mean, they're tree got hit by
[1:15:20] lightning and they moved. Do you used to close the
[1:15:23] cradle board trail during their nesting season. And something like
[1:15:26] that, I think is a great idea. And probably should
[1:15:29] be discussed. Christine Johnson Pozak. So don't get deceived by
[1:15:36] the name of the organization. It's more than just, it's
[1:15:39] more than just eagles. Yeah. It's, there's multiple raptor species
[1:15:43] there. Yeah. I'll chime into Jason Sook again. Um, so
[1:15:49] just to be clear on, on, on this particular issue,
[1:15:53] um, and others that are related to it, um, this
[1:15:55] one were quite aware of. And then touch on regularly
[1:15:58] as well as the Boarda County Commissioners. So that's something
[1:16:01] that's definitely been communicated well. And as on our radar,
[1:16:05] but other things may not be. And that's where, um,
[1:16:07] I think it's helpful. And we can connect, discuss and
[1:16:10] figure out, um, you know, agendas as we, as we
[1:16:13] all collectively see fit. And I think Steffen can better
[1:16:18] answer a couple of things here. Well, I don't know
[1:16:21] if I can answer him better. But, um, no, we're
[1:16:24] well aware, um, so Dana has a research permit non
[1:16:28] funded research permit with us. And, um, you know, part
[1:16:31] of having a non funded research permit is we ask
[1:16:35] for those individuals to provide us a report every year.
[1:16:38] And so we're well aware of the data that Dana
[1:16:43] is collecting there and sharing. Um, you know, it's a
[1:16:47] complicated issue. And I think, you know, John and Joan,
[1:16:51] you know, both brought up really, uh, important pieces for
[1:16:54] us to consider. Um, you know, we would gladly come
[1:16:58] back and, and if post Ac wants us to, to
[1:17:02] have a conversation about our raptor management and how we
[1:17:04] do that. And we can get into all the details,
[1:17:07] um, and so you can see the efforts that we're
[1:17:10] taking to protect raptors in these areas. But again, there's,
[1:17:14] there's a regional trail involved. And the regional trail and
[1:17:19] the active ag lease, um, were there before the eagles
[1:17:23] moved into this location. And so there's a, there's a
[1:17:25] lot of complications. And it does make things make things
[1:17:29] difficult. Um, so we gladly do that. Um, we do
[1:17:32] have really, um, stricter, um, closures than the CPW recommends
[1:17:40] and U. S. fishing wildlife recommend. It's closed. We try
[1:17:44] to keep the area closed from October 15th through July
[1:17:48] 31st. And so, um, when we try to keep the,
[1:17:54] and there's nothing to say that the eagle nests would
[1:17:56] move. And then do we build another trail? And then
[1:17:58] the Eagle Nest moves and we build another trail. And
[1:18:00] that's not sustainable and effective either. So, um, but we
[1:18:03] would gladly come back and give a presentation on how
[1:18:07] we manage our raptors. I would love that. I would
[1:18:12] really love it too, because it is something that, um,
[1:18:16] was a concern of mine with a couple of other
[1:18:18] things that have come before us in the last few
[1:18:20] years. And Vicky probably would like that she's into that
[1:18:26] as well. So post sac, anything more on topics not
[1:18:32] related to tonight's presentation. Learn. I have one, um, this
[1:18:37] would be, again, this is also something that came up
[1:18:40] in the commissioner hearing yesterday. And I thought it might
[1:18:42] be something that POSAC would like to hear about or
[1:18:46] talk about a little bit more. They brought up the
[1:18:50] acquisition framework and prioritization structure. And I think we keep
[1:18:54] kind of coming up against that when we're going through
[1:18:56] the, like as you all are going through this planning
[1:18:58] process, I'm sure this will come up a lot. But,
[1:19:01] um, I don't know anything about those structures. And I
[1:19:06] think it would, I think it would be really interesting
[1:19:08] to learn more and sort of understand, um, how we
[1:19:12] decide, um, what parcels to purchase and sort of what's
[1:19:16] part of the process of acquiring new properties because the
[1:19:21] stress on the system for maintaining them right now and
[1:19:25] making management plans for them and all those other things.
[1:19:28] So, um, that's just something that I'm wondering if anybody
[1:19:32] else is interested in. Uh, Tray Spaker Posec, our former
[1:19:40] land acquisitions manager did give us a talk on that,
[1:19:44] but we have so many new Posac members that I
[1:19:48] think would be a good idea to, um, hear that
[1:19:51] again. If the recording, you all just want me to
[1:19:54] watch too. I can do that session. Oh, then yeah,
[1:19:59] let's do it. That would be too easy. And addresses.
[1:20:02] Got it. Okay. Anything else. Okay. Uh, Stefan, thank you.
[1:20:13] And, uh, Jason directors update. Good evening. Jason
[1:20:22] Sook, Director of Parks and Open Space. Speaking of a
[1:20:27] real estate, I was pleased to go on a, on
[1:20:29] a field trip today, went up to Cowwood, uh, where
[1:20:32] we've got a conservation easement up there and great to
[1:20:34] see a property. And, you know, that's the kind of
[1:20:38] stuff I like more than Gantt charts. Sorry Heidi. But
[1:20:42] those are, it's wonderful to, uh, yeah, to get a
[1:20:45] better picture of, you know, not just the acquisitions, but
[1:20:47] also, you know, their property tools that we have. And,
[1:20:50] um, learning a bit more about those things. Um, I
[1:20:54] did want to say again, thanks to, to Heidi and
[1:20:56] team for the great work on the District Level Planning,
[1:20:58] not just this presentation, but kind of the process, the
[1:21:01] thinking through the idea. And, um, you know, the conversations
[1:21:04] that we've had in work sessions with the board. And
[1:21:07] I think, um, you know, after quickly discussing this concept
[1:21:10] in the last two meetings here. And then we're, we're
[1:21:13] very pleased to have presented the concept in a bit
[1:21:15] more detail. And I really appreciate your feedback, your insight
[1:21:18] there. And I think, um, you know, the path on
[1:21:20] the, uh, on the journey forward together, um, I'm looking
[1:21:23] forward to it. So a few things coming up, it's
[1:21:26] busy. Uh, we've got the Boulder County Fair that starts
[1:21:30] on August 5th. We've got a parade on August 1st.
[1:21:34] And the Rangers are coordinating closely with the sheriff's office
[1:21:36] to ensure that it's a very safe and welcoming event.
[1:21:39] And it will be assisting visitors throughout the fair. Uh,
[1:21:41] youth Cor is in full effect. And actually it's ending
[1:21:45] pretty soon as well on August 6th. So we've had
[1:21:48] a lot of key project work, including historic fencing repairs
[1:21:51] at Walker Ranch, trail work at bald mountain stair rebuilding
[1:21:55] and drange improvements at Mud Lake and a number of
[1:21:58] other things. Um, I had the opportunity to meet one
[1:22:01] of the work groups there at Youth Corps last week.
[1:22:05] And just a tremendous experience to see kind of youth
[1:22:07] involved in public service doing hard work. They're a lot
[1:22:11] stronger than I am. I learned that too. And, um,
[1:22:13] and just to be outside and, you know, and serving
[1:22:16] your community, um, I thought was fantastic. And it was
[1:22:19] a great experience. And I appreciate the work that they're
[1:22:21] doing for us. World Ranger Day is coming up on
[1:22:24] July 31st. Our range was to celebrate with a picnic
[1:22:28] hosted by OSMP and honoring Rangers worldwide. Very excited for
[1:22:32] that. We've also got the left hand outdoor challenge coming
[1:22:37] up. We're recruiting students now. And this year's program Themal
[1:22:40] Center on Leadership Purpose and the Role of Outdoor Adventure.
[1:22:44] What could be better really? Um, I did want to
[1:22:47] touch on the alternating use discussion. So on June 30th,
[1:22:51] we presented the results of our survey and the potential
[1:22:54] alternatives based on the commissioner's request to explore potential alternating
[1:22:58] use. And the commissioners decided in the end not to
[1:23:02] choose a pilot activity. And instead of emphasizing continued courteous
[1:23:07] trail use. And so our department has already started to
[1:23:10] share the trail campaigns and inflaced rotating A - frame
[1:23:13] signage on a number of trails, including high RA ranch
[1:23:16] that talk about good trail etiquette and sharing the trail.
[1:23:21] Um, speaking of trails, we've got an annu white. Um,
[1:23:24] the lot of step replacement and trail repairs. Uh, it
[1:23:27] looks great out there and we're pleased to have those,
[1:23:29] uh, improvements. And at Caribbean Ranch, the drainage improvements with
[1:23:33] the teamworks crew. And in fact, the number of different
[1:23:36] partnerships and crews that were able to tap into, uh,
[1:23:39] we just kind of appreciate these different, you know, cores
[1:23:42] and crews and partners and volunteers that, um, really facilitate
[1:23:46] us to do a lot of work during the high
[1:23:48] season now. On our trailhead operations, we've regraded it, regrating
[1:23:53] as completed across all trailheads and access roads. And, um,
[1:23:57] uh, we also want to note that, um, we've got
[1:24:00] high visitation these days. Hesse and 4th of July Trailheads
[1:24:03] are experiencing record use. Our rangers are continuing to patrol,
[1:24:07] do emergency response, visitor education and restroom ordinary. And, um,
[1:24:11] they're also doing quite a bit of preventative search and
[1:24:13] rescue assistance. It's hot out there. And hydration or electrolytes,
[1:24:19] sunscreen and safety guidance are all part of what we
[1:24:20] do. But, um, just keep it an eye on folks
[1:24:23] because it's, um, you know, there's been incidents and it's,
[1:24:26] it's, uh, it's, uh, yeah, it's warm. And I think,
[1:24:29] uh, I'll stop there. That's enough for you all, but
[1:24:33] it's a, it's a busy time. There's a lot going
[1:24:34] on. I really appreciate the, uh, you know, the team
[1:24:37] and all of our different partners as we, um, you
[1:24:40] know, continue to do work across the county. Thank you,
[1:24:44] Jason. Poseck. Any questions or comments for Jason. Okay. Well,
[1:24:51] thank you. Uh, final topic tonight is, um, an executive
[1:24:56] session where, um, POSAC will receive, um, legal advice. And,
[1:25:04] um, we will also at the end of that executive
[1:25:07] session, we will adjourn from there. So we will not
[1:25:10] be back in this room. And, um, may we have
[1:25:15] a motion to enter the executive session. And I understand
[1:25:21] it's important to use the language provided. So if anybody
[1:25:24] has that language, would you make a motion. Yeah. This
[1:25:28] is actually, this is Leonna Lara Moore Assistant County attorney.
[1:25:32] Um, it's important that you use both the statutory language,
[1:25:35] but I also want to make sure that you provide
[1:25:38] specific enough reasons for going into executive sessions. So it
[1:25:42] could be something like I moved that we go into
[1:25:45] Executive session pursuant to CRS 24, six 402 Ford B
[1:25:50] to discuss legal issues. Making it recommend. National agenda items.
[1:26:00] Um, so I can provide you with that site again,
[1:26:02] as it would be helpful, but again, that second part
[1:26:04] of it is important. We're going into executive session to
[1:26:07] discuss legal issues related to making a recommendation or taking
[1:26:12] a poll on information. Okay. Okay. We're prepping Carol. Okay.
[1:26:18] Okay. Oh, okay. I move. That Pozak go into executive
[1:26:26] session pursuant to CRS 24 - 6 - 4024B for
[1:26:32] the purpose of receiving legal advice concerning whether POSAC can
[1:26:38] raise questions and topics directly to Boulder County Commissioners. And
[1:26:44] whether we can offer advice, even if it's not solicited.
[1:26:48] Period. About the subcommittees. Okay. Thank you. So we have
[1:26:54] a motion. Do we have a second. We have a
[1:26:57] second. So all those in favor. Aye. Opposed. None. Okay.
[1:27:02] Well, we will, uh, move over to, um, separate conference
[1:27:08] room for our Executive session. And Trace formally adjourn the
[1:27:15] Pozac meeting now. Um, we don't, we won't technically adjourn
[1:27:19] it from the executive session. So I would just make
[1:27:21] it clear that the POSAC meeting is, is thank you
[1:27:29] staff and members of the public, we are adjourned.