[0:10] There being a forum present, I hereby
call this um
[0:14] September the 2nd, 2026 meeting of the
Fox Bar Conservation Commission to
[0:20] order.
>> All right.
[0:24] » Um so
start off with the minutes. interesting
[0:27] is the review minutes and chorus.
Uh they don't have a chance to review
[0:33] the minutes. They look pretty short,
which we do have two sets. Um I'll just
[0:39] let
>> I think it was just Lucy who was in
[0:41] here, but anyone online or watching this
over recording. We did hold a emergency
[0:47] meeting brief, only about 10 minutes on
Thursday at 2 p.m. Um the agenda was
[0:53] uploaded. Uh it was not recorded but the
minutes here are set to be approved and
[0:59] that was um to approve the emergency
certificate for the briefing of the dams
[1:04] at Paddock Estates. Um and so let's
let's do the August 19th.
[1:10] » Yes. Let me pull that up
>> first.
[1:52] Isn't there a vote to say
vote for this negative intimidation of
[1:59] applicability?
This says there's one motion. I thought
[2:05] I saw
on
[2:08] » I see motion was made by David
seconded by Liz and voted unanimously to
[2:13] close the hearing and issue a negative
number two uh determination.
[2:19] » What's that?
>> That's the way it was done.
[2:20] » Well, that's okay. I mean, usually they
close the hearing and then issued the
[2:26] transition vulnerability, but it's not a
huge difference.
[2:35] It should say there was a vote.
Well, it
[2:39] » says we voted unanimously. So I mean the
implication is is that the motion to
[2:43] close the hearing and and issue the
determination is made in saying
[4:23] You would make a motion on the August
19th
[4:29] I I wasn't there. So,
>> oh,
[4:34] » I'll move to approve to August 19th and
I'll second
[4:40] move and second and to approve the
minutes for the August 19th meeting. Um,
[4:44] all those in favor say I.
>> I. All those opposed.
[4:50] That motion carries unanimously.
[4:55] So on the August 27th meeting minutes
Ian um just just go it's right here it
[5:03] says the property owner has filed an
application for a board of health
[5:06] emergency permit to breach the dam.
>> Yeah.
[5:08] » I my recollection from the meeting is is
that the board of health actually issued
[5:12] that. I think you brought you brought it
up on the screen.
[5:15] » Um they that was the permit that they
applied. Uh and
[5:20] » this was on Thursday. Yeah. So Jim had
sent it Friday. He had not yet finalized
[5:26] an
>> Okay. Okay.
[5:31] So I think you weren't there. We'll see.
Obviously. So
[5:36] » Steve or Steve?
>> Yes. Sure. I I I will move the approve
[5:40] minute of August 27th emergency meeting.
Second. move and seconded to approve the
[5:48] minutes of the August 27th, 2026
emergency meeting. Um, all those in
[5:54] favor say I.
>> I. All those opposed. No. So, maybe one
[6:00] extension.
>> Oh, no. No.
[6:04] » You can't.
>> Yeah. Okay. Sorry.
[6:07] » That motion carries unanimously.
>> So, did they breach it or
[6:12] » I think that's it's been started.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll give an update
[6:15] right now as well. Um, so I believe it's
one of the Oh, no, sorry. I did not
[6:20] print it. It was a nine page long email
chain that really did not need to waste
[6:26] paper on. Um, but I do have a folder
here for the Beaver Dams update that
[6:30] I'll get into. Uh, because we do not
have 745 just yet.
[6:36] So, uh, if we're going over to the
Hagerland,
[6:41] let me X this out so we have a little
more space.
[6:45] Um, the Hagar Land was very successfully
breached. Uh, the fire department um
[6:50] came by last
Tuesday or Wednesday, I believe, and
[6:56] they blasted it and the DPW was also
there. They were chopping up the uh
[7:01] cutting through the wood and they did a
very good job clearing. I'd say about 10
[7:06] or 12 linear feet um under the bridge,
making a good clearing. Uh and as you
[7:11] can see, water has been flowing and it
was I'll remind us up to probably
[7:17] halfway up this bridge here, maybe a
little more. Um so we've gotten almost 3
[7:22] ft of water back. I mean, you can see
the water line in some of these. Um, and
[7:28] I should have taken more photos, but uh,
these were
[7:34] this was taken on Monday, so this was a
couple days after. Um, it didn't seem
[7:38] like there was a crazy amount of
activity to cover it back up, but even
[7:42] so, um, the inundation has kind of been
relieved. Um, and yeah, it was uh,
[7:49] interesting to see them mucking about
and pulling all that all that debris
[7:54] out.
blasting it with a hose was actually
[7:57] pretty pretty um
>> effective, I'd say. Yeah. Um let's see.
[8:05] » Went and just before this meeting
and
[8:10] I hadn't seen the before picture and so
it was pretty clear that the water was
[8:16] flowing was this big.
>> But but the thing that amazed me was
[8:19] there was this even this huge beaver dam
just a little further up there. It's
[8:25] gigantic and it's been there for a long
time because brickless grass and
[8:30] everything growing top of it
>> and apparently they felt the need to
[8:35] build another one right there at the
bridge just to happen.
[8:40] It's like
[8:43] you know it's their nature.
>> Yeah.
[8:47] and yeah,
>> you know, reservoir behind the big dam,
[8:53] but that's not enough.
>> No, they just got to they got to stay
[8:57] busy. Um, all right. And then over at
Hill Road on Paddock Estates property,
[9:02] um, we know last Thursday, like I said,
emergency meeting. We had the beaver
[9:06] permit application there for that
meeting and Jim indicated by then that
[9:10] he would be signing it the following
day. This is what we received from Jim
[9:14] the following day. Um purpose of
breaching the dam, not the removal, not
[9:19] the modification of the beaver dam or
the flow device.
[9:22] Um so he signed that that is in effect
until 6 days from now. Um but it seems
[9:30] like most if not all of the work has
been done. This is what we had signed
[9:34] and reviewed in the meeting last
Thursday. That was easy to get through.
[9:39] And then this is the email chain. And
I'll go down to the bottom where I
[9:44] communicate with Scott and ask him on
Monday if he completed the work. He
[9:51] said, "We got two dams, two and three
done, but hope to go back for one
[9:55] tomorrow. One being that large one, the
most upstream closest to Hill Road." Um,
[10:00] and then I asked again for an update. He
said, "The dams were all breached
[10:05] yesterday. There was some very strong
water flow yesterday. Today the flows
[10:08] seem to have diminished. and I will be
out there tomorrow um at Paddock to look
[10:14] at how much their water level has
changed in their fire pond. And um I'll
[10:18] probably try to bring Chief Klin out
there to see if anything else needs to
[10:22] be done um in the time being. But
>> so it was so um did Scott take any
[10:28] photos by any chance?
>> Uh he did not send any photos. No, I
[10:32] probably could have asked him for those,
but uh I will be I'll have some photos
[10:36] for our next meeting because I'll be out
there uh tomorrow.
[10:43] And that's all I have for Beaver Damps.
>> Oh, thanks for the update.
[10:47] » No problem. We're 2 minutes off from
I'll save the planners report cuz that
[10:54] one is a bit uh it's a bit dense. Um
this places associates letter is pretty
[11:02] self-explanatory, a bit retroactive. Uh
this is the letter that um Bill Murray
[11:08] who was here at our last meeting or I
guess second to last meeting um
[11:15] wrote this letter about the Hagerbridge
sent it to Mike John's on uh August 24th
[11:22] and um action was taken last week on
that. See if we have anything else
[11:27] that's easy. Um, yes, Dave Barnett had
emailed Scott uh yesterday asking um
[11:36] asking if if we can go out to the site
um sometime early next week to look at
[11:42] the work that will be done. Um I know
that about two meetings ago, maybe three
[11:47] meetings ago now, we had spoken with
Scott. He said end of August, but
[11:51] definitely September. Um so looking like
that work should pick up any day now.
[11:57] hopefully next week. Um
>> Patch Hill.
[11:59] » That's at Patch Hill. Yes, that's with
our grant. Um
[12:04] yeah, and then we can It is 7:45.
We can either hold this last piece cuz
[12:10] this is a request for the commission. Um
yeah, let's talk about that.
[12:16] » All right, perfect. So, I'll leave that
one piece of correspondence in the
[12:20] planner's report for after. But as of
now, it is 7:45. So, I'll let you read
[12:26] that, Dave, and we can get this.
>> Our speed is off the
[12:29] » Yes. Thank you, Steve.
>> Yes. Thank you, Steve.
[12:33] » Okay.
file for 22
[12:41] by public hearing will be held on
September 2nd, 2026 at 7:45 p.m. for the
[12:48] Boxboro Conservation Commission to
consider notice of intent filed by Oxbow
[12:53] Associates, Inc. on behalf of the owner
at Element Materials Technology Og
[12:59] Group. The property is located at 1146
Massachusetts Avenue's map 13-018-0000.
[13:12] Project description installation of a
concrete stab for equipment. This public
[13:18] hearing will be held over town hall at
29 mil road and provided Zoom video
[13:23] conferencing. All details be made
available on the conservation commission
[13:29] open and posted a minimum of 48 hours
prior to the meeting on the town website
[13:36] www.boxthro-mass.gov.
[13:41] Contact conservation commission office
at 978-2641722
[13:47] if there are questions. I'm going to
>> So just just a quick question first. So,
[13:53] do we have do we have any hard copies of
the actual notice of intent?
[13:56] » Uh, yes. I have the reviewer's copy and
I have um I can pass this along to
[14:03] Steve, but I also have this and I can
flip through it on the uh it was 60
[14:10] pages long, so I didn't want to print
out four different copies.
[14:15] » Ladies and gentlemen,
[14:20] » can everybody hear me? for something
that I think could have been an RDA. But
[14:24] anyway,
[14:28] » so what was your
>> Okay. Well,
[14:32] well, well, as far as that goes, uh why
don't you walk us through the project?
[14:37] » So, uh I'm Ron Stros from Associates
representing um Elements Material
[14:42] Technology. Um basically,
this facility is a testing facility for
[14:48] a bunch of equipment. um and they
subject some of the material that they
[14:53] bring in there to extreme temperatures.
So they have these gigantic machines
[14:58] outside and I'm going to get this Ron
and I Ron's on the call. Um he's the
[15:03] kind of supervisor there, but um these
these big machines that kind of either
[15:10] extreme put these material through
extreme colds or extreme hot. I don't
[15:14] remember exactly which one was, but
there's two chiller
[15:19] giant pieces of equipment that are on
the outside which are marked in that red
[15:22] box top of the page and they're about
two stories tall and basically they are
[15:29] fed with one of these wells that are
also on the top of the page. It's fed
[15:34] with water. Basically, it takes I think
the heat from outside kind of cools down
[15:41] whatever it's getting is heated in
there. Um or it's the opposite way. I'm
[15:45] not really sure.
And um
[15:50] basically the testing equipment kind of
cools down or heats up to extreme
[15:55] extreme temperatures and it kind of put
these materials through a whole bunch of
[15:58] tests, see what their breaking point is
and bending material.
[16:02] Um, these two gigantic chillers are
outside. Um, they're on the the west
[16:10] side of the building. They are about at
least 25 years old. Uh, so you go to
[16:17] jump to the photos.
>> Can Can everybody hear me?
[16:22] » You can kind get an image of it, but
they're sitting on a giant on another
[16:26] concrete pad.
>> Yeah. From the cover.
[16:28] » Yep.
>> Yep.
[16:30] And basically the idea is that we're
going to replace these machines with a
[16:36] newer machine um that's kind of a closed
loop system. So right now this is takes
[16:42] water from the well. It runs it through
both of these chillers
[16:47] and then water either gets recirculated
but some of it spills out the side. And
[16:53] actually in this photo, you can see the
hose right here that some of the water
[17:01] drains out from and the wetlands. Here's
my wetland flag. It drains onto a piece
[17:06] of plywood and then kind of drains into
the wetland.
[17:10] » So, is that is that by design or is that
>> No, I don't think it's by design. I
[17:14] think it's cuz Brian had told me at one
point um he had turned the water off to
[17:19] try and stop this flow and the whole
machine was down for the entire day
[17:24] while refilled with water for whatever
reason it's either leaking or you know
[17:30] needs to be half it needs to be filled
to a certain level I think and as soon
[17:35] as you don't aren't filling it
constantly it doesn't work
[17:40] » well it is old.
And so, oh, Ron put his hand up.
[17:44] » Ron put his hand up.
>> Better explanation.
[17:47] » Good morning. Uh, good evening.
>> Hear me?
[17:50] » I'm I think I'm maybe having trouble
hearing him. Let's make sure that
[17:56] There we go. Hold on, Ron. Go ahead.
[18:03] » Yeah, muted.
>> I think I've been having
[18:08] » Okay. Can Good evening. Can you hear me
now?
[18:10] » There we go. We can. Yeah, I think it
was on.
[18:13] » All right. I'm up here in the mountains.
Sometimes the reception's not the
[18:16] greatest.
Ronald Bernetti, Element Chief
[18:20] Electrician. Ron's doing a great job
explaining that. So,
[18:25] nice job, Ron.
[18:29] » All right. I'll uh I'll I'll sit tight
and listen. If you have any questions,
[18:32] uh I'll be more than happy to answer
them.
[18:35] » So, yes, I was doing. Okay.
[18:39] So, this these machines are going to be
replaced. There's going to be a closed
[18:43] loop system that's going to be put in on
another concrete pad that's going to
[18:48] it's going to be a little bit offset
from this. Um, we're going to move it
[18:52] further away from the wetland, but it's
the idea is to have both systems running
[18:58] concurrently so there's not a whole
bunch of downtime.
[19:01] um while one piece gets removed and then
the other one comes in the concrete has
[19:06] to set and then the machine has to be
brought in and set up and that's
[19:10] multiple days of downturn
>> but that's only temporary right
[19:13] » that would have been temporary so the
idea is that yeah right now they're both
[19:16] so the new one's going to get installed
first the m the the new conx box that it
[19:22] comes in and the the chillers are going
to be
[19:27] the concrete pad's going to be built on
the blue spot The new conic box will be
[19:32] put installed. The piping will be
installed hooked up where it needs to be
[19:36] and then where the existing chillers are
in the red box will be decommissioned
[19:41] and removed and the concrete pad will be
recouped. Correct.
[19:46] » So the new pad is smaller than the
existing pad. So and we're moving it
[19:51] further away from the well. So now we've
moved it outside the 25 ft bumper where
[19:55] it was at 7 ft. Um, and it's decreasing
in size about 30 square ft. Oops, not a
[20:03] ton, but it is a decreasing impervious
inside the buffer zone. Um, and it's
[20:09] kind of necessary for this location just
where it enters into the building. You
[20:15] know, we considered putting it closer,
but those other HVAC things are in the
[20:20] way. Um, and so this is kind of the best
spot for it. and the other one was going
[20:26] to be removed. Um, we proposed erosion
control along the wetland line and up
[20:31] along the property line, although I
don't think that'll be super necessary
[20:35] on the up to the property line. Um, but
it is going to the concrete pad is going
[20:42] to support the large weight. It's I
think was 60,000 lbs. So, there's it's
[20:49] going to be significant pad um and
reinforced and everything. So, and
[20:55] they're looking to try and get it in
before
[20:59] » we're the general the the GC we're
hoping to have the pad poured and cured
[21:05] by the end of September, early October.
A crane will set to ConX box. Take about
[21:10] a month of piping within electrical. We
do a two-day shutdown. we change over
[21:15] and then we have a demo crew uh going to
demo the existing towers going to go
[21:20] away
>> and that pretty much covers it. That's
[21:26] it's a pretty small project in the
overall scope of things. Um but it does
[21:31] reduce impervious in the bubble dome. It
moves it the impervious further away
[21:36] from the wetland line and it stops those
points discharge which has been draining
[21:41] into the wetland for 20 years.
And and the reason for that we have such
[21:47] a demand a load heat load that uh if we
turn the water makeup off um overnight
[21:54] it'll they uh just evaporates. So we
have to have a full-time water makeup.
[21:59] Um with the closed loop system we have a
float in there so the water will just
[22:03] turn on and off when as needed. So right
now we've have the water full on or full
[22:08] off and that's our only option. So
that'll we have an improvement
[22:14] being made.
[22:18] » Is there any way you could move the new
mechanical room further away from the
[22:22] wetland?
>> Uh we could what would you like to see
[22:27] further further towards the front of the
building
[22:31] which would be east I guess. Uh
trying to look at the north south
[22:37] technically north. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. So,
[22:42] » so right now we have it 11 feet off the
property line. Um, and we we we were
[22:48] going to to put it there for the piping
um for accessibility for the piping and
[22:53] the electrical. It's all going to go
overhead.
[22:57] » That's why it was laid out that way.
>> But it is still being moved what?
[23:02] Another 10 ft 10 ft more away from the
west at least.
[23:06] » Yeah. Something.
>> Yeah. Right now it's all Yes. Correct.
[23:12] » There's a setback for edge of
properties, too.
[23:18] » Ian got it on that one because we had it
set. We had it set closer and we
[23:22] actually moved it off though the time
step back. Uh
[23:28] if they do one, you guys have to file
with another board. Yeah.
[23:33] » Yeah.
>> But you probably do need a building.
[23:37] » Oh, certainly. Yeah. Yes, I'll we have I
hired a general contractor to oversee it
[23:42] and he's uh he'll be pulling all the
permits.
[23:54] » Yeah. one. Yeah, I'm just considering
it's uh I'm I'm curious about the the
[23:59] the killer situation, but that is
probably
[24:05] » Yeah,
was a technology from
[24:11] previous slide. Uh but that's okay. I
don't think it's gaining to this. So,
[24:16] just to just to to summarize, you you've
moved it back.
[24:21] where
out of the 25 ft buffer cell which you
[24:25] are still within the the larger buffer
cell. This is project which could not be
[24:31] built fresh today because of its
>> proximity to the wetlands. Right. So
[24:36] this is a pre-existing non-conformant
property and what we're doing here which
[24:44] was slightly provy.
>> Yes. Okay. So,
[24:48] » and they're outdated
>> and there's not much more you can do
[24:52] beyond that. And what I've heard here is
you were somewhat constrained by its
[24:58] location. Uh, it has to be near the
existing pipe so that you could just
[25:02] replace the feed and not have to do
substantial amount of rework inside the
[25:07] facility.
>> That's great.
[25:09] » Correct.
um boxes. The HBAC boxes are not part of
[25:14] its work, but they also part of the
constraints for why it is placed where
[25:19] it is. So, not closer to the to the
structure.
[25:22] » Well, I see a well there is
>> Yeah, the well's not
[25:28] » correct. I wanted to leave leave as
electrical 110.6 leaving working
[25:32] clearances around all the equipment.
That's why it was proposed there for for
[25:37] the well working clearances and the HVAC
working clearances.
[25:41] » And is the uh I don't see like gradient
lines here. I think I heard in the
[25:46] narrative that it's relatively flat
area.
[25:50] » Yeah. Don't there are grading lines. I
think uh I think that dotted this dotted
[25:56] line is I think that was a grading line.
It's always
[26:02] » this isn't 998 that's in 989. So that's
only one foot difference. Okay. Got him
[26:08] there. So there's so it is pretty flush.
So there's limited risk of of runoff
[26:14] from the construction site into zone but
you're going to handle that as I recall
[26:19] from the NOI that you're going to put in
the WS the WS.
[26:24] » That's yeah that's the heavy dotted uh
black line.
[26:27] » Okay.
Can you tell us what the process is to
[26:31] go on the mechanical?
[26:36] » Say again. I uh I I missed that. I'm
sorry. Say again.
[26:41] » The mechanical pro can you describe what
the mechanical processes are in the
[26:46] mechanical room?
>> Yes. So the mechanical room just right
[26:49] now houses uh uh two pumps. We have two
sides of the building. We have a
[26:55] dynamics which are shaker tables and an
environmental. And right now inside the
[27:01] mechanical room be two pumps in in
inside of our existing pump room. The
[27:06] new conx conx box is going to house um
two pumps, a um reservoir, and then two
[27:14] towers on top of the conx box. So
that'll all be inside of that box. And
[27:19] we will be
>> correct.
[27:23] » It's all it's all selfont. It's all
self-contained inside the box.
[27:29] » So So what fluids are you pumping?
>> Uh water. So So So the two cooling
[27:34] towers just water. All of our equipment
inside have heat exchangers. uh closed
[27:39] loop, a supply and a return, and it just
uh flows through a heat exchanger and
[27:44] whisks away all the heat, pulls it back
to the cooling tower, and the fans on
[27:48] the tower cool it and it just goes
around and around and around.
[27:51] » So that's So it's basically just cooling
towers, an evaporating cooling tower,
[27:57] » not an ethylene glycol.
>> No, no, no, sir. Um it it's all uh it's
[28:03] going to be water and we have there's
heaters. We have there's heaters being
[28:07] installed. So for the winter time,
that's what we have now is water and we
[28:11] have submersible heaters. So it' all be
heated.
[28:16] » So th those were actually my questions.
So So just just to make sure I
[28:21] understand. So So the um the uh cooling
the new cooling towers, which get
[28:27] there'll be two of them, two new ones,
right?
[28:30] » Correct. Um and and two um pumps, heat
exchange pumps.
[28:36] » Correct.
>> Um and and then and then is the the ConX
[28:41] box as you've described it. Is that is
that then something separate?
[28:45] » Yes. It's like a shipping container. Um
something you would see on a ship and
[28:50] and and process cooling. Um something
that they have designed. They put these
[28:56] two cooling towers on top of the box
structurally engineered and uh it's like
[29:02] a self-contained unit. It's going to
come with a crane conx box, two towers
[29:06] on top and all the associated equipment
would be inside the box. It's pretty
[29:11] » okay. And then
>> and so that's so so that's that's all
[29:16] that's all in a self-contained unit
which I guess you're calling the
[29:19] mechanical room.
>> Exactly. Yeah, we're going to call
[29:22] » which which then just gets lowered down
by the crane.
[29:25] » Correct. They're going to they're going
to hoist it over. Um, right now we have
[29:29] a mechanical room where the pumps are.
That's all going to go away. It's now
[29:32] going to be in the self-contained box
and we are we are installing uh spoke
[29:38] with the fire department and we'll be
putting fire alarm in there as well.
[29:43] » So, uh, and what kind of a subbase does
this uh this box go on? There must be
[29:48] some sort of preparation, initial
preparation of the ground that needs to
[29:52] be done.
>> I hired a general contractor who has a
[29:56] structural engineer. Um, we gave him the
dimensions, the weights of the equipment
[30:02] and uh that was being laid out by a
structural engineer. So he would have
[30:07] all that u for the for the permits.
>> So So that so um that plan will have to
[30:14] be submitted for the building permit. Um
and and and and I and I would say that
[30:20] that should be a condition um in the in
the order conditions that the commission
[30:25] get a copy of that as well.
>> That's certainly reasonable to do. Yes.
[30:31] And and so and the soil that you remove
from there. So you're going to have to
[30:35] do a lot of you're going to remove a lot
>> so usually we take the top soil out then
[30:40] what happens to that instead of concern
oursight
[30:47] » yeah we just put a condition that says
remove it off site
[30:51] » but you know it sounds like maybe
there's not going to have to they're not
[30:54] going to have to go too deep but I I
think there's going to have to be
[30:57] something will have to be put in as a
subbase
[31:01] » fill in the word
>> and And what I'll do is I'll speak to
[31:06] the general contractor tomorrow who's
going to be in charge of the uh the site
[31:10] work in the concrete and I'll let him
know that when he's pays a visit to the
[31:14] building department to have all that uh
have all that paperwork and drawings
[31:18] available.
>> Yeah, they're definitely going to want
[31:21] plans. No doubt about that.
>> Not a problem.
[31:24] » The piping overhead so not to you won't
have to trench,
[31:29] » right? The only grounds you're going to
start with that.
[31:34] » That's correct.
>> Yep. And there was no the existing bad.
[31:38] » No. Leave a hole in
>> for the when removing the existing one.
[31:43] » Yeah.
>> Now I think I think in the notice we
[31:45] said we put long in it and receat it.
>> Yeah.
[31:50] » Yes.
>> And we're going to let the area behind
[31:52] the box, you know, between the well and
the new box kind of reveate at least a
[31:57] little bit thicker. probably have to do
some clearance around the existing box.
[32:01] Um but right now there's probably one
foot maybe two feet of clearance uh that
[32:08] gets mowed. So if we can extend that by
anything um it's going to be better
[32:14] condition than it is right now.
>> Yes. A big improvement.
[32:23] » Yeah. Because because right now right on
the corner of the red
[32:28] box. There's a there's a hose that leaks
on
[32:38] » basically where all those arrows go.
That's kind of the exact point where it
[32:41] it drains in.
>> Yeah.
[32:43] » And then it goes into a J, which blows
the picture. The pictures for
[32:48] » Yeah. We're sure.
>> Um I have just one more question. So it
[32:56] says the covered plywood enclosures.
What what are those?
[33:00] » So underneath Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Behind
the existing towers uh behind the towers
[33:05] and next to the building are um are
plywood little structures that house all
[33:13] the fittings, the plumbing, um the
pipes, the supply and return. And those
[33:18] are heat heat tape heat trace wrapped.
Um you really can't see it from there
[33:23] which
but yeah so that's so underneath it. So
[33:27] below that uh right on that base we have
a supply and return
[33:33] » and
yeah there's a there's a picture in
[33:36] there that shows the viral sitting.
>> So so those are okay. So those are like
[33:42] penetration swing the shell.
>> Exactly. The penetration they're just
[33:47] fittings. Uh there there's couple one T
and some elbows and uh uh two valves for
[33:53] shutting the water off. Um and and it
has all heat trace around it. So that'll
[33:58] all be going away as well.
>> Yeah.
[34:01] » Those are those huts there are for our
um our shaker tables are all air cooled
[34:07] and those are blowers that that pull air
across a shaker table so they don't heat
[34:12] up. That's what those are. But but those
those plywood structures can't be
[34:17] permanent,
>> are they?
[34:19] » No, those are permanent. Yes,
because inside of there are are 20
[34:24] horsepower motors with blowers that pull
air across the shaker tables. We have um
[34:32] we have eight shaker tables inside that
building, vibration tables, and they're
[34:36] all air cooled. So without that, that
the equipment would wouldn't run. Yep.
[34:41] So, so you have no plans to replace the
plywood with anything a little bit more
[34:48] » Yeah. permanent you might say.
>> Uh with those before there was nothing
[34:52] over the enclosure. A couple years ago
they had those built. So those are only
[34:56] about two years old
[35:00] » which that's which that is a separate
issue. Those that's the shaker tables
[35:04] blower motors which is separate from the
cooling towers.
[35:10] » Yeah. I don't think
>> so. So So then, so then Okay. So let me
[35:14] just ask that. So prior to that, were
the were the pipes just exposed outside
[35:21] of the building? And and then and and
and that was built some time ago. And
[35:28] then as a
perhaps more recent
[35:33] uh modification
a structure was placed around them to
[35:38] give them more protection from the
elements. Is that sort of that's what's
[35:42] going on here right?
>> Correct. So I started there 16 years ago
[35:46] and in the eight vibration tables um I
just just a little lean to over it
[35:52] without a whole lot of structure or
protection for the motors and the
[35:56] blowers.
So, those were those were built a few
[36:00] years ago to um give the motors and
blowers some protection,
[36:06] » keep it out of the elements.
>> And
[36:11] someone might have asked the question,
was was that work done
[36:19] under the purview of the building
permit?
[36:24] Is I I don't even burns here. But boy,
that just seems really odd to have this
[36:30] collection of plywood structures which
really do not look to give the same fit
[36:35] finish as the uh exterior of the
building.
[36:41] Correct
there. It's uh it's uh aluminum siding.
[36:47] It's fiberglass sighting actually.
Vertical vi fiberglass sighting.
[36:53] » Right. I mean that is uh I guess a point
of order is that outside the scope of
[36:59] this NOI to approach this
>> corre correct this is yes
[37:04] » okay
[37:08] your opinion I was asking that of the uh
of the other uh con
[37:15] » Oh okay sorry it's but I understand your
position on
[37:21] » you know I um I I I I would agree it is
outside the scope. However, that doesn't
[37:26] mean the commission can't request if if
there are concerns. I you know there
[37:29] wasn't a filing when that work was done.
Um so I mean there there might be a
[37:34] legitimate concern um that I mean just
thinking you know is is
[37:39] » the buffer then they're very close to
the wetlands and and it looks to me like
[37:44] there would be rain and snow melt runoff
um off of those roofs, you know, going
[37:50] right toward the wetland. Doesn't look
like there's an erosion problem in this
[37:55] photo, but you know there would you have
to take a closer look at it.
[38:00] » There's a gravel axis that rubs.
>> Oh, that's gravel. That's gravel.
[38:04] » I think it's probably for
>> Yes. Yeah. It's gravel.
[38:09] » Yeah. So, if it's if there's already
gravel there, you know, the drainage is
[38:14] probably not a concern. Um, but I mean,
that's certainly a legitimate point to
[38:19] bring up.
[38:23] to see it. Okay. So, I mean all
So, what's the what's the the right
[38:30] here? So, it's outside of this in take
it down to the premises building.
[38:38] » And we could certainly ask that Ian
maybe go back there and take a look at
[38:42] it if he sees anything of concern.
>> Um, he could certainly let us know and
[38:47] then and then we could, you know, deal
with it from there. I mean, it's there's
[38:51] nothing jumping out at me just by
looking at the photo, but yeah, it's
[38:55] just it's just a photo. And there
probably should have been Yeah. some
[38:59] contact made with this commission before
that was done at least to say, "Do we
[39:03] need to file?"
>> Yeah. Right.
[39:08] » It's just it's clearly inside.
[39:15] » It's outside. It's inside the 50ft
buffer zone. Oh, it's closer than that.
[39:20] It's within the 25.
[39:25] » The green is the theation.
[39:31] » So,
that seems like a good thing. It's just
[39:35] a field inspection just letting you know
to
[39:40] but uh you have answered all the
questions on it.
[39:45] » Were the blowers always there? Yes, sir.
They were always there. Correct. They've
[39:50] been there. I think the building's been
um they element has been there for 30 38
[39:56] years and the blowers have always been
there. Correct.
[40:06] » Well, I I don't have any more questions
at this time. So then I guess so what's
[40:11] the the next step here would be we would
get an email report for Vienna on this
[40:17] findings there and then we would
consider this I guess it's my fault to
[40:23] be to write the
conditions
[40:27] for this for a future consult.
Yeah, that's correct. And our next
[40:32] meeting, I believe, is scheduled for the
16th.
[40:36] Um,
we can probably close out then and um
[40:43] have those order the conditions order of
conditions drafted for that meeting.
[40:48] » Um, so when you when when you talk about
Ian's findings, what what are you
[40:53] referring to? uh on if the if there's
anything objectionable about the
[41:00] conditions of the bywood outfield.
>> Yeah, I don't I don't I don't think we
[41:05] need to link that.
>> Um
[41:08] » keep that separate.
>> Have you have you by any chance done a
[41:11] site visit to look at
>> No, not those.
[41:14] » Um I I mean I don't know that we really
need him to do that at least not at this
[41:20] point. But I don't know how the rest of
you feel.
[41:25] » Well, we probably should have a look at
them just to do due diligence.
[41:31] » Yeah, I don't I don't disagree, but I
mean does do it does that need to be
[41:35] done at this point?
>> Well, okay. So, that's not going to stop
[41:38] me from working on work conditions.
However, so for instance, BM finds
[41:44] evidence of erosion runoff,
>> right? Um
[41:50] » that that might be a
>> Yeah, I again that's I think that's a
[41:54] separate process. Um I mean I guess
theoretically we put we could put that
[41:59] as a condition in this order, but I I
don't think that's the best way to do
[42:03] it.
>> Okay. Well, like I said, this it's uh
[42:08] it's it certainly is an interesting
discovery. Uh and so I definitely
[42:15] because I can I can see a reason for not
making it an impediment to going forward
[42:20] with this. It's it's another
pre-existing condition has nothing to do
[42:24] with your right.
So linking so making an impediment to
[42:29] that is
>> is out of scope.
[42:31] » I mean we we should we should have been
contacted. No doubt about that. But but
[42:35] but we weren't and again I'm not seeing
anything obvious in this photo that
[42:39] there's a problem but I mean yeah we
could ask Ian to take a look at it you
[42:43] know at some point and you know let us
yeah let us know his findings. Um we can
[42:49] I think we should also talk a little bit
right now about you know some of the
[42:53] conditions to to put in. I have some
ideas about that.
[42:59] So, uh, I'm all ears.
>> Okay. So, I think, um, as you sort of
[43:04] touched on earlier, um, I think there
should definitely should be a condition
[43:08] in there that,
um, and maybe this maybe this isn't the
[43:13] right term, but once, but I'll just call
it the architectural plans. I think we
[43:19] should there needs to be a condition in
there that we get a copy of that. You
[43:23] know, the same thing that's submitted to
the building department. Uh, I think I
[43:28] think that that should um yeah, also
include the plans for the subbase and
[43:34] that probably and maybe it makes the
most sense for that to come from the
[43:38] contractor. Um, you know, we'll
certainly leave that up to the
[43:43] applicant. Um, another another thing I'm
wondering is do we do and speaking of
[43:53] roof runoff, do do we want to do put
anything in the plans in the
[43:58] architectural plans to deal to deal with
with that for this this new building? Uh
[44:06] s certainly I don't think it would be
very difficult to just put a a crush
[44:11] stone via the trench that goes around
the perimeter of the base. Um and I
[44:17] don't I don't I don't know. So so so Ron
um Ron Ron off Ron online. Okay.
[44:25] » So So what is what is the shape of the
roof? Is is the roof flat?
[44:30] » Yeah.
>> I'm referring to the
[44:33] » the ConX box. Yes.
>> Yes. Yes. It is flat roof.
[44:38] » Flat roof. But it has the chillers on
top so they wouldn't just run off.
[44:44] » Yeah.
>> No. Yeah. I can't.
[44:49] » Do you mind if I jump through that?
>> Yeah.
[44:53] » I think I put in there.
>> It's probably a metal. Yeah. Well, the
[44:57] comics box metal.
>> Yes, it's steel.
[45:05] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
[45:11] » Is it a like sketch or something?
>> Yeah, it's like a
[45:15] kit.
>> Uh, is it on the plan itself?
[45:19] » No.
>> Like a detail engineering detail?
[45:21] » Yeah.
[45:28] think maybe I didn't because I thought
it might be
[45:30] » I could uh I can run one over tomorrow.
I have I have photo.
[45:38] » Yeah. So, so that conx right that's an
abbreviation for what?
[45:44] » Uh that's a very good question. I just
know it's a
[45:47] » it's a manufacturer they for conx. I
when I looked up ConX uh like container
[45:53] I believe that's the shipping container
and you're saying that something's
[45:57] within it. Um I mean I looked it up I'
I'd show it here but I don't think we
[46:02] need to. It's literally all that came up
where shipping containers. Um
[46:16] » inside the pot.
>> Yeah. Basically those two
[46:21] sticking out from the top. So it's
almost two identical
[46:26] » and chillers I think is is being
generous with they're just kind of like
[46:32] changes.
>> Yeah. Are they the same um like model
[46:36] too?
[46:39] » Negative. Those are those that you're we
see on the photo I we don't know what
[46:44] those are. There's no documentation make
a model. I don't know. I don't know
[46:48] where they got those.
>> So I I tried to find out, but anybody
[46:52] that would have known um whoever put
those in there 30 something years ago,
[46:57] they're long gone now and nobody has any
information.
[47:02] Well, my what what I'm concerned about
what I'm asking about is is there is I
[47:08] mean rain falling on this thing has got
to go somewhere. I mean so it I would
[47:14] think it would run off the edge whether
the roof is um tilted or not. Um and and
[47:23] and I'm wondering just wondering
thinking um
[47:27] you know does it does it make sense to
put something uh lining the perimeter
[47:33] underneath the the drip? I don't know if
there's like there's a drip edge or
[47:37] anything like that. Um I mean it doesn't
have to be very complicated, you know. I
[47:41] think just maybe a foot wide, you know,
crushed down filled trench would do the
[47:46] do the trick. But but but maybe maybe
you know if we could get more
[47:50] information on that from the
manufacturer or the contractor maybe
[47:54] maybe they'll say you know that's not
going to be a problem. I mean
[47:59] » yeah not a problem. I'll uh the general
contractor is going to oversee all
[48:03] construction. He has all the prints so
he can uh I'll let him bring that up and
[48:08] discuss that best course of
>> the sketch of
[48:13] » it came from
[48:17] you know
>> sounds good
[48:22] » it looks like a shipping container and
then the it looks like a business
[48:26] shipping container it looks like that
so so yeah to
[48:34] that. So some
>> yeah and I I think that's a reasonable
[48:39] request. I think the general contract
would probably be happy to have the
[48:43] extra space around it initially working
and it would provide to the dirt
[48:48] northern part
and you probably thought it does need to
[48:53] meet the storm water standards. So
actually that'll help me little
[49:03] » um then then another thing that I think
should go in their condition for a a
[49:09] detailed chronological work sequence
um for for both the the installation of
[49:17] the new um
structure and removal of the the
[49:24] as well.
[49:28] » Right. So you so you gave us a verbal
narrative, but we can Yeah, we provide
[49:32] that direction
>> and that probably should I would think
[49:35] again should come from the contractor
because they're the ones that are going
[49:38] to be, you know, the best vers in that
know exactly what they're doing
[49:44] » and and what you what you said all makes
sense, right? Just minimize the
[49:49] downtime. We build new system, get it
all checked out,
[49:53] » and get it running and then decomp.
>> Yeah, we're hoping for like a two-day
[49:58] shutdown
just to do a quick changeover.
[50:03] » Then then I would I would also put in
there that that the corners of the uh
[50:11] the new structure be staked
prior to the start of any excavation.
[50:17] And I guess I ideally I'd like to have
Ian go out and just double check for
[50:22] them if he's able to do that.
[50:34] And then I don't I I don't think it
would be um unreasonable for you to
[50:40] request the building department check
with you first before they actually
[50:46] issue the permit, you know, whether all
of the the preconstruction requirements
[50:51] have been satisfied. Absolutely. The
order of conditions.
[51:03] And then I think just the other one was
the removal of the excavated soil off
[51:08] site.
>> So I think that's all I can think of at
[51:11] the moment. Maybe I'll think of
something else couple of weeks.
[51:15] » Right. Well, let's excavate soil on that
building. I think you already covered
[51:20] the fil.
[51:25] So you remove it then put it new stuff.
>> Yeah.
[51:28] » Yeah. You probably included a
restoration plan.
[51:32] » I put in the narrative. I think just
that it'll be
[51:36] with
restoration.
[51:42] » I think it's just dry dry restoration
for dry sites.
[51:47] see makes I can provide anything you
want them
[51:56] as far as perpetual sort of uh additions
right is so so so this is what we've
[52:02] discussed there's a lot of construction
that we now do once it's as
[52:07] destruction's done
with the
[52:13] perpetual orders of condition right
there's I there's no
[52:18] there's no new
you're not creating new land that we
[52:23] have to wait till it's seated and
stabilized. We don't have to worry about
[52:26] that. There's no uh raid stabilization
that has to be done here.
[52:33] » Well, uh and actually um that's that's a
good point. We didn't we didn't ask this
[52:38] yet, but what is there any sort of you
know like regular maintenance that needs
[52:43] to be done you know on the outside? does
mean does any kind of equipment need to
[52:47] get in there on a regular basis, Ron?
>> Uh, negative. According to Process
[52:52] Cooling, um, there'll be minimal there
be some heat exchangers on the inside of
[52:58] the um, ConX box that they'll they'll
shut down. They'll have bypass valves,
[53:03] bypass the heat exchangers, and they
clean the core with a wire brush and the
[53:08] shop vac and and then put the bypass
back in. And, uh, that's about it for
[53:14] maintenance. It's all basically hand
tools. Hand tools.
[53:19] » And And of course that that area back
there is mowed regularly, right? And
[53:23] then that will continue.
>> Yes, we have a uh we have a um a
[53:27] landscaper that mows it once a week.
>> So we probably should include explicitly
[53:32] include that as that. That's allowed as
a perpetual condition.
[53:40] » Just regular bullying.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's that's they're
[53:43] doing that anyway but it wouldn't hurt
>> just to actually
[53:48] » okay
[53:54] because you already access
so there's no extra
[54:00] access road or anything needed there
right and I yeah so there's no road
[54:06] proposed there those two wells are
actually right
[54:10] » oh but but then but Then um that
actually I just thought of something
[54:13] else. So so I think on on the plan like
on the architectural plan or it could
[54:18] even be a separate plan. I think we need
to see the location of where the crane
[54:24] is going to be staged.
>> Um crane that lowers this in. We we need
[54:29] to maybe that can just be added to this
plant. You know you know leave that up
[54:33] to you. But I think I think we do need
to see that.
[54:42] That's pure because you want to make
sure that it's not
[54:47] end up being
further encroaching into the buffer. So
[54:51] if you can have
>> I think generally it
[54:56] » yeah I mean I think
>> there are certainly cranes that are
[55:00] large enough where it could be staged
outside the buffer zone. I um sorry to
[55:06] interrupt. If I if I remember process
cooling um dealing with the the the um
[55:12] PM and the engineers, they were going to
stage the crane in the front parking
[55:17] lot.
>> Um
[55:19] » Okay.
>> And then they go go right over that
[55:22] corner of the building and set it right
down.
[55:26] » And that's certainly outside the buffer
zone.
[55:28] » Correct. So, so maybe maybe maybe that
could only be a note added to this plan.
[55:35] Again, leave that up to you.
[56:00] It's got a clear
two. Yeah,
[56:14] » enough to get started with.
>> Yeah.
[56:16] » Okay. Right. So then Okay. So just doing
a presumptive close here. I've got a
[56:21] list of nine conditions here that
happened before construction and two
[56:27] that happened after minimal maintenance.
Minimal maintenance is required, but the
[56:32] number is allowed and lower landscaping
is allowed. Right? Just you have access
[56:38] permitted from for the regular
maintenance to the to the enclosure and
[56:44] uh access permitted for regular mowing
and landscaping of the area out there.
[56:50] So that's what perpetual conditions.
There's no other
[56:54] do they need to store any chemicals out
there in the
[56:58] in the mechanical room. We need to store
any chemicals.
[57:01] » No. Uh no sir, there won't be any
chemicals in there.
[57:04] » So that that should certainly be a
perpetual conditioning file.
[57:08] » No chemicals.
[57:12] Okay,
which should be an easy one.
[57:19] the search.
[57:22] Okay. So then, okay. So we have present
to close three eventual conditions. Nine
[57:29] things have to do before the
construction begins.
[57:35] Um
the next meeting is in two weeks. That
[57:40] will mean for many other would have to
be done like next week and put out
[57:49] It's certainly possible.
[57:53] » Well, what what what what we can do is
we can keep the hearing open.
[58:00] » Yeah.
>> Oh, okay.
[58:03] » Okay. So, that takes a little bit of
pressure off you.
[58:09] So, so
I'll do the best I can.
[58:14] So add something
although it seems
[58:22] » all continue the
>> well continue the hearing.
[58:26] » Yeah, we'll continue the hearing and
then if we close it next time,
[58:29] theoretically you'll you'll then have
another three weeks to uh get the order
[58:34] out. But if you pretty much already
drafted it, it shouldn't take you that
[58:38] long. Okay, sounds good.
[58:44] So, uh, if we don't need any additional
information, is there, um, a, um, a
[58:50] motion to continue the air to August
16th?
[58:55] » September 16th.
>> Oh, September 16th. Sorry.
[59:00] And what is usually 7:45, right?
>> Yep.
[59:05] » So,
>> has that been moved in second? Yeah.
[59:10] » So, so moved in a second to continue
this hearing to September 16th at 7:45.
[59:16] Um, all those in favor say I.
>> I. Um.
[59:22] All post say no. No. That motion is
unanimous.
[59:26] » Okay.
>> Wonderful.
[59:30] » Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Rob.
>> Thank Thanks for your time, gentlemen.
[59:34] Have a good night.
Yeah, probably
[59:52] » and I asked my coworker child about damn
photos and he said Scott
[59:59] » wonderful. Wonderful.
>> He did take them.
[1:00:03] » I could tell him to send him a few.
Thanks, Ron. All right.
[1:00:09] » All right. Let's see.
[1:00:17] » All right. So, we have one more piece of
correspondence. Honestly, I didn't dig
[1:00:20] my teeth too much into this, but let's
go into it. We have a proposal for a
[1:00:25] seed and micro library and community
education program. We want to take we
[1:00:31] can take a minute to review this.
[1:00:43] So, who is this from
>> and where?
[1:00:46] » Um, it is from
Lubby Castle and uh it's proposed at the
[1:00:53] Sergeant Memorial Library.
Residents will be able to borrow seeds,
[1:00:57] grow them at home.
Littleton.
[1:01:02] » Oh, is this like what they're doing at
the Littleton Library? Oh. Oh, yeah. I
[1:01:06] really like that.
>> That That's really great what they've
[1:01:10] done out there.
[1:01:14] » So,
[1:01:24] » yeah. At the bottom, she says, "I
respectfully request a brief meeting or
[1:01:28] conversation with the ad comedy consom
to discuss feasibility and
[1:01:31] collaboration, guidance on native
plants, pollinators, and save seed
[1:01:35] saving best practices, support, and
connecting with local gardeners and
[1:01:39] farms who may wish to contribute seeds."
>> Yeah. What's that like?
[1:01:44] » Yeah, absolutely. This is
>> is this something that would interest
[1:01:48] the commission in having her come in or
is this something that um
[1:01:54] you would want like me to handle on my
own? I I'm perfectly fine with either.
[1:02:01] » Well, um yeah, and I think I'm okay as
well, but but I would definitely
[1:02:07] recommend if she hasn't already to take
a look at what they've done at the
[1:02:10] Littleton Library. Yeah, I think they've
done a great job up there that that will
[1:02:16] give her um some very definite uh ideas.
I think and and and I would and I again
[1:02:23] I would I would like to see you know um
a specific proposal
[1:02:27] um and if and if she yeah and if you
know after she reviews the little thing
[1:02:32] if if if she still if she feels she
still would like recommendations from
[1:02:37] this commission as to like species to
plant whatever. Yeah, that and I think
[1:02:42] we could meet with her. Sounds good.
>> Doesn't Doesn't she also to involve
[1:02:49] director of the library?
>> I sure like space the library for this.
[1:02:54] So,
>> it would certainly be a good thing. It
[1:02:57] is owned by the town. So, um
>> not sure she would need to, but you're
[1:03:02] right. It should be something that is is
up.
[1:03:06] » I'm guessing that one get
>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah, this is this is stuff.
[1:03:13] So, okay. So, that that question is adex
listed.
[1:03:19] » Yeah, that's a good question. I I I'll
reach out to her and make sure that she
[1:03:23] knows when adcom's meeting. We received
this without uh any without pushing her
[1:03:28] or anything. So, I'm guessing that Adcom
will be reviewing this same thing at
[1:03:33] their meeting next Tuesday. Um
>> yeah. So, so, so to
[1:03:40] » is is friendly to this post.
>> Yes.
[1:03:44] » Yeah, I can
>> think that should also
[1:03:50] » perhaps just you as the exchange point
say the next step would be to to take it
[1:04:00] to the librarian.
>> Yes,
[1:04:03] » this concom think this is a good idea.
How would you suppose this be made a
[1:04:11] real thing,
>> right? Because there's got to have space
[1:04:15] of the library
space of something else
[1:04:20] over land.
>> Yeah, there might be space.
[1:04:22] » Well, yes, but the person who would know
that is
[1:04:26] » it's based on Yeah.
>> Correct. I mean, I I would think that
[1:04:30] since she's proposing this at the
library, she must have she must already
[1:04:34] have some thoughts about where it would
go.
[1:04:36] » Yeah.
>> Up there.
[1:04:38] » Two two pods that
perhaps
[1:04:45] put
>> she's not asking us for any money. At
[1:04:49] least not yet. I'm certainly open to
some funding if speak
[1:04:55] » that she decides that's what she would
like.
[1:04:59] » So, hope that's enough to wonderful.
Yeah, I'll reach I'll reach back out to
[1:05:03] her.
Um, great. And then let's go to
[1:05:10] I guess it's just the planners report,
right? This is a fun one.
[1:05:15] Um, do I have other things? Yeah. So,
uh, I'll go quickly through three
[1:05:21] different potential things we have down
the pipeline. Campelli, I had briefly
[1:05:26] mentioned, uh, a meeting or two ago,
and, um, Alec had spoken with him and
[1:05:32] said that he does not believe,
Campanelli said that they do not believe
[1:05:36] that these next two developments will
require any filings. So, I'll keep an
[1:05:40] eye out for that. And obviously when
those come into the um planning board,
[1:05:44] the first thing I'll be doing on behalf
of the consum is ensuring that they
[1:05:48] don't need to file anything. And if they
do um if it's minor potential RDA, uh if
[1:05:53] it's something projectw worthy, then
obviously an OI. Um but I'll be keeping
[1:05:58] an eye on that. uh the firehouse uh
going in at 984 Massav. There was a
[1:06:04] pre-development meeting between the
architects and engineers and some of the
[1:06:10] town staff, fire department, Alec and I
um and some other other folks uh
[1:06:16] interested in the project. Um they have
not yet submitted anything formally to
[1:06:20] the planning board. Um it is looking
like there might be an uh RDA with that
[1:06:25] one. Um
it's the wetlands is across the street
[1:06:32] at 975 Mass avenue. You guys will
remember we had that project last year
[1:06:37] and um it's it seems minimal enough
where it crosses the state highway. Um
[1:06:44] so we'll see once the final project is
proposed and submitted to the planning
[1:06:48] board. Um but they have already
identified the wetland buffer and I
[1:06:52] can't remember exactly what it is.
definitely not uh able to share the
[1:06:56] plans right now, but I think it was like
maybe two or three parking lots that
[1:07:01] crossed into the 100 foot buffer. So, um
>> Well, and and some of that's going to be
[1:07:07] dependent on what the proposed for storm
water management.
[1:07:09] » Yes, absolutely.
>> Um so, is there is there I should know
[1:07:13] the answer to this question. Is is there
a a a town storm water management bylaw?
[1:07:20] Yes, there's a for the planning board
they have to submit a storm water man
[1:07:24] they have to apply for a storm water
management permit. It's very similar to
[1:07:28] kind of what we just saw with this NOI.
Um but yeah, a lot of that is also
[1:07:33] handled with the town engineer. I won't
pretend I know everything about storm
[1:07:37] water um uh you know measurements and
and the things that uh we have we're so
[1:07:43] lucky to have Sue deal with.
Um,
[1:07:47] and then
is that and then we have another one
[1:07:51] perspective uh NOI that might might be
coming up within the next couple weeks.
[1:07:55] I honestly can't remember the address of
it, but we did have someone asking about
[1:07:59] um filing fees for the NOI that they
plan to um file with us so we can keep
[1:08:04] an eye out for that. We will be getting
busier. So with that, Mary and I will be
[1:08:09] keeping a tighter schedule of when
things are due. Um, obviously she's
[1:08:14] always on top of when things are posted.
Um, but with that I will be working with
[1:08:19] Liz to uh if Liz isn't around then I'll
be looking to appoint a reviewer. Um,
[1:08:26] and getting everything to folks as early
as possible. Um, ideally like a week
[1:08:32] before when when everything's posted and
we have all the submissions. Um, yeah.
[1:08:36] » So, so when you say busy, you mean from
a regulatory perspective? 5 months?
[1:08:41] » Yes.
Yep. Uh, you know, the Campan Alley I
[1:08:45] said is a maybe, but the Firehouse um
and this other potential one, those are
[1:08:50] two on the horizon that we uh we're
pretty certain of we'll be dealing with.
[1:08:54] Um, whether they're RDAs or NOIs. Um,
yeah, we'll be finding that out shortly.
[1:09:00] But, um, let's see what else. The OSRP
ice cream social was a week from this
[1:09:07] past Saturday. Um, we had some pretty
unfortunate weather. It was like very
[1:09:12] misty. It wasn't raining enough to um
cancel it completely, but we did get I
[1:09:16] think about 16 folks come by, mostly
members of of like Adcom
[1:09:22] um and I know Liz was there and we did
get some residents who had just heard
[1:09:26] about it online. So, that was great. Um
luckily those uh things that I made for
[1:09:32] the event are going to be able to be
kind of recycled and brought to other
[1:09:36] town events. So, it's not a complete
wash, but um more importantly, we have a
[1:09:42] potential EO enforcement order that I
had begun drafting today um because I
[1:09:48] had been notified by a resident
about tree clearings uh along Massav.
[1:09:54] So, let me first where Yeah. So, let me
first um
[1:10:02] just pull this up.
[1:10:11] It doesn't load.
There we go.
[1:10:17] So, they did have a filing for an NOI
back in I think 2004, 2005. We don't
[1:10:23] have those files on us. Uh or Mary went
digging for them. She found the order of
[1:10:28] conditions in the certificate. Um but we
couldn't find the plans. But that's over
[1:10:32] 20 years ago. Um, I did check Mass
Mapper and uh our assessor's database.
[1:10:38] It seems like there is very clearly
wetlands in the area and it looks like
[1:10:42] the limit of their tree clearing on the
back side of their property. Um,
[1:10:47] definitely
most likely um encroaches either on
[1:10:52] wetland or most definitely within the
buffer zone. With that, I let the
[1:10:57] building commissioner know yesterday and
um we will be potentially doing
[1:11:02] something about it tomorrow. But with
that, I had drafted an enforcement
[1:11:06] order. Um I have some photos as well,
but any of this that you guys would like
[1:11:12] more information on, I'd be happy to let
you know.
[1:11:17] » So what So what's an enforcement order?
Yeah, the enforcement order is also new
[1:11:25] to me. I've never had to deal with one,
but um it is pretty self-explanatory
[1:11:29] once you look at the the WPA form. Um
I'll show you guys that in just a
[1:11:34] second. I'll show you the other picture.
There was a huge tree on this side if
[1:11:40] you can see it here. It looked bigger in
real life, but probably at least four or
[1:11:45] five foot diameter.
No, this is Flamingo
[1:11:50] Market. Uh after Olympia and Oscars.
>> Yes. Great vine.
[1:11:58] » Yeah.
>> So So it's in back of there.
[1:12:00] » It is on the back side of there.
>> The Conservation Commission now owns
[1:12:04] that that 7.6 acres.
>> That's correct.
[1:12:07] » Not on our land, is it?
>> It doesn't. It doesn't look like it, but
[1:12:12] it also it we don't know. It may be
[1:12:23] Yes.
>> Yeah.
[1:12:25] » I believe we accepted that at the end of
last year.
[1:12:28] » Yeah.
[1:12:33] » Nope. We haven't had any direct contact
with them, but this might be our first
[1:12:38] here. Um, so let me pull up this
enforcement order. Dave, I'm sure you're
[1:12:42] very familiar with this. um enforcement
order issued by Conscom to this is the
[1:12:47] owner listed uh address significant tree
clearing. So if you want me to move
[1:12:53] change any of this again this is a draft
I'd be happy to
[1:12:57] significant tree clearing and removal
within the buffer zone across the entire
[1:13:00] southern half of the property.
[1:13:07] » Well, but it says it says the buffer
zone.
[1:13:09] » Yeah.
>> Well, that's that that's going to be
[1:13:12] their responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Also on the D form, I think most if not
[1:13:17] all of this is um so finding the
activity has been is being conducted in
[1:13:23] an area subject to the protection of the
wetlands protection act or the buffer
[1:13:27] zone without approval from the issuing
authority. Um and then there's other
[1:13:33] parts of this. The activity does violate
the provisions in the certificate of
[1:13:37] compliance. I look back
>> um conditions.
[1:13:40] » Yep. the essentially same boilerplate uh
perpetual conditions that we uh this is
[1:13:49] so I can also get confirmation but this
is a certificate without our written
[1:13:54] conditions. What I did was look at the
order of conditions that was um recorded
[1:14:01] here
>> but the certificate of client should
[1:14:03] reference the perpetual conditions. It
just doesn't have them in the recorded
[1:14:07] copy at the registry because it's in the
original order here. So, let me just
[1:14:13] » But it doesn't have it doesn't even have
a reference to it.
[1:14:16] » I mean, they
>> it may
[1:14:18] » it should
>> Yeah. Don't scroll down. Can you enlarge
[1:14:21] that?
>> Yeah. But
[1:14:25] » uh keep going. Oh, hold on. There we go.
I'm going. Okay. So,
[1:14:29] » A through D. Thank you for that.
>> That's That's a violation of the
[1:14:32] certificate of compliance. Yes, those
would be
[1:14:36] » what they are. Yes.
[1:14:43] » Perpetual. There we go.
>> No additional alterations of any kind
[1:14:47] within the wetlands and the buffer zone
will be permitted without prior approval
[1:14:51] of the concom.
>> That's pretty.
[1:14:55] » Yeah, I believe A through D. And that's
the only one that really
[1:15:04] So it's really C because as far as we
know they haven't put any new structure
[1:15:12] there's no storage of chemicals but they
>> yes but
[1:15:16] » alterations. So this second sentence of
the
[1:15:24] » Ci.
[1:15:32] Yeah. Okay. So
that so what happens then you so you say
[1:15:38] okay we saw you do this you violated the
orders of conditions. So yeah, we'll
[1:15:44] continue through this because then we
have the order. This the issuing
[1:15:48] authority hereby orders the following.
Property owner, his agents, permites,
[1:15:52] and all others shall immediately cease
and desist from any activity affecting
[1:15:57] the buffer zone and/or resource areas.
And then I can fill out one or two of
[1:16:04] the following. A restoration plan shall
be filed with the issuing authority. Um,
[1:16:08] honor before date or complete the
attached notice of intent shall be filed
[1:16:13] with the issuing authority honor before
date.
[1:16:16] » So, so go back scroll back a little bit.
Um,
[1:16:20] » more no. So, so yeah, the question is
the the two under the checkbox resource
[1:16:27] area alterations resulting from said
activity shall be corrected in the
[1:16:31] resource areas returned to their
original conditions. I mean that when it
[1:16:35] says a resource area there really really
refers to a wetland resource area under
[1:16:39] the WPA. This is just buffer zone. So I
think it really should be the next one.
[1:16:44] A restoration plan um shall be filed
with addition authority on or before
[1:16:48] date for the following you know re uh re
replanting the um the buffer zone.
[1:16:56] » Yeah.
>> You know with trees
[1:16:57] » with trees. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:16:58] » Um and they'll be stay well. Well, well,
I would then then then I would then I
[1:17:04] would go down from there.
>> Um, keep keep going. Um, that um says
[1:17:12] where it says the property owner should
take the following action. I would say
[1:17:15] hire a wetland consultant to to prepare
a restoration
[1:17:21] a tree a tree replanting plan for the
buffer zone.
[1:17:26] » That seems very
>> Yeah.
[1:17:28] » Are there any trees resistant to
invasives?
[1:17:31] Yeah.
[1:17:35] » Well,
>> I think that is an invasive technically.
[1:17:40] » Oh, well, he said resistant to invasive.
>> So, I mean, the way this will work is if
[1:17:44] they abide by it, if they comply with
it, they they they they will provide a
[1:17:50] restoration plan where where the
consultant will prepare a restoration
[1:17:54] plan and and present it here to the
commission and the commission can review
[1:17:58] those kinds of issues. I mean if if if
they're if they're opposing all Norway
[1:18:02] Naples obviously we're going to say no
to that you know
[1:18:08] » so what was happened here was they they
had something in mind the awareness and
[1:18:14] what we seen with camera sees is that a
bunch of trees have been cleared cut
[1:18:20] down instead right we don't know if
that's the end of it we don't know
[1:18:27] maybe
[1:18:30] Well, but but that they won't be able to
see the citizen very much.
[1:18:34] » Well,
[1:18:38] » well, okay. So, um first of all, they
have 60 days to appeal it um under the
[1:18:44] WPA. We and um also would have to be
appealed under the um the local bylaw.
[1:18:51] Um but but I think I think they both I
think we can double check with town
[1:18:55] council but I think they would both then
get appealed to superior court. You know
[1:19:00] the the appeal of an enforcement order
is not with D. Um, and I presume if if
[1:19:06] they say, "Well, you know, we we want to
expand the parking lot," they'll they'll
[1:19:11] they'll come to that,
>> right? And then we can we can we can
[1:19:15] make a decision about whether we want to
modify this or we say no, you know, the
[1:19:22] the the order of conditions says no for
permanent structures shall ever be
[1:19:25] permitted.
>> So, this is forcing a conversation at
[1:19:30] the at the very least
could happen.
[1:19:34] to say put solar on on side roof, right?
[1:19:41] Yeah.
>> We don't know.
[1:19:46] » There's at least
>> that's
[1:19:51] » there's at least a 50/50 chance they'll
they'll say, "We want to come and see
[1:19:54] you and tell us what we want to do. Tell
you what we want to do."
[1:19:59] Right.
>> It's the other side of 50. Yeah. They
[1:20:03] get visited from the town council or
it's
[1:20:09] what what what happens what what what's
what's the state?
[1:20:15] » Well, um because if if uh so first of
all, if they have the right to appeal
[1:20:20] within 60 days, they have right to
appeal. If they don't appeal then and
[1:20:24] they don't do anything, if they if they
haven't not complied with the terms and
[1:20:29] conditions of the enforcement order,
then then we take them into court.
[1:20:33] » Yeah.
[1:20:36] » And it's a civil it's a civil case. Yes.
>> I think in this case, I don't see any
[1:20:41] crim evidence of criminal activity here.
>> Um
[1:20:46] » Okay. Just this is a this is a first.
Have Have you had any um contact with
[1:20:52] them?
>> No. Not yet.
[1:20:53] » So, um you'll you'll put your your name
and contact information in the
[1:20:57] enforcement.
>> I have that somewhere here.
[1:21:00] » Um and hopefully hopefully if you get a
call hope, you know, um and then, you
[1:21:06] know, even if you don't get a call, I
think you should, you know, try and
[1:21:10] establish communication and ask to do a
safe visit.
[1:21:12] » Yeah, absolutely.
>> So, then this gets delivered to them as
[1:21:15] a certified letter or something.
>> Yeah.
[1:21:17] » Yeah. It can also be uh brought to them
in person. It says
[1:21:22] » signature of delivery person or
certified mail number. So Ed could bring
[1:21:26] it to them tomorrow.
>> Yeah.
[1:21:27] » Um if if if you if you send it by by
mail, you should send it by both
[1:21:33] certified and regular.
>> Okay.
[1:21:35] » Because because more often than not they
they will not accept the certified and
[1:21:40] that'll come back, but the regular mail
will not which means that they did
[1:21:45] accept it. They accepted that. Okay.
[1:21:51] Okay, wonderful. I have my marching
orders.
[1:21:56] The enforcement orders can be very
interesting.
[1:22:01] » I'm excited.
[1:22:09] » Is this Are we requesting
CDC fun?
[1:22:17] CPC
>> looks like
[1:22:20] » disease.
>> Um we might
[1:22:23] » we haven't Yeah, we haven't discussed
that yet, but that's certainly a
[1:22:26] conversation we should probably have at
our next meeting. Um
[1:22:30] » usually we have
>> Yes, we do. Um it will be another
[1:22:35] conversation
um that we get to have and kind of
[1:22:40] conjure up
>> and and you can also maybe be dependent
[1:22:43] on our next Perkins Woods working. Yes,
there's a possibility there. We might we
[1:22:50] might request it might be a joint
application between this commission and
[1:22:53] adcom for CPA funds.
>> Yeah.
[1:22:56] » Something something to talk about.
>> Sure. So something will be coming.
[1:23:01] They're going to meet tomorrow.
[1:23:09] » We just don't know what it is yet. Well,
I mean, I think the 10,000 is probably
[1:23:12] pretty much a guarantee that request be
anything additional
[1:23:17] » W to be TBD.
[1:23:21] » Okay, that's all the business I have.
Let me just double check through this
[1:23:25] packet.
Uh,
[1:23:29] nope, that's everything I have.
[1:23:34] » So, anyone have anything else?
[1:23:39] Well, I think we just got
>> that was that was everything in the
[1:23:42] house.
[1:23:48] » Um, so is there a motion to
>> I?
[1:23:56] » Uh, that motion is not debatable. All
those in favor say I.
[1:24:00] Wow.