[2:31] All right. Uh, welcome back everyone.
[2:33] Thanks for joining us tonight. Uh,
[2:35] council's returning our first, uh,
[2:37] meeting since we had our summer break.
[2:39] So, thank you for being here tonight.
[2:41] Uh, council, everyone's here except for
[2:43] Cheryl Dean Dehaney. Councelor Dehaney
[2:45] is going to join us virtually. She's
[2:46] under the weather, so she with us then.
[2:49] So I'll call the meeting to order at
[2:50] 7:01 and I'll read a land
[2:53] acknowledgement. As vis on this land,
[2:54] the town of Bradford acknowledges that
[2:56] the land on which we gather today is the
[2:58] traditional territory of the Ishnabek
[3:00] nation which includes Ojiway, Odawa and
[3:02] Pawami nation collecting known as three
[3:04] fires confederacy. We recognize the
[3:06] Hernand Chippoa and Hodeni nations have
[3:09] walked on this territory over time in
[3:11] times of great change. We recognize more
[3:13] than ever the importance of honoring
[3:14] indigenous history and culture and are
[3:16] committed to moving forward the spirit
[3:17] of reconciliation, respect, and good
[3:19] health with all First Nation, Matei, and
[3:21] Inuit people.
[3:23] Okay, we're on to number two. We've got
[3:26] uh recommendation that the regular
[3:28] council committee whole agenda dated
[3:29] August 5th, 2025 be adopted as amended.
[3:33] Move second. Moved by councelor Dyke,
[3:35] seconded by councelor Question,
[3:37] concerns?
[3:39] Seeing none, all in favor?
[3:41] Thank you
[3:43] declaration pecular interest in the
[3:44] general nature you declare it now or if
[3:46] you find when you get to an issue if you
[3:48] find yourself in that position you can
[3:50] declare then seeing none right now we'll
[3:53] move on then so we're going to move to
[3:55] number four and tonight we have a
[3:57] special presentation I'll just read the
[3:59] bio right now and then I'll call the
[4:01] gentleman up so Art J citizen of the
[4:05] year Art J was devoted has devoted his
[4:08] life to preserving history and improving
[4:09] the infrastructure of Bradford
[4:11] through published works, archival uh
[4:13] archival efforts, and decades of public
[4:15] service. His leadership and dedication
[4:17] has left a legacy, making him a true
[4:19] exceptional citizen of the year. A
[4:21] lifelong contributor to Bradford
[4:23] Glumbry, Art has preserved and promoted
[4:25] the region's history through three
[4:26] published books, the creation of the
[4:28] Holland Marsh Centennial Calendar, and
[4:31] the archiving of nearly a century's
[4:32] worth of records, and over 6,000
[4:35] historical photos. Art's legacy also
[4:37] includes decades of public service
[4:40] serving as counselor, chief building
[4:42] official, and project manager for key
[4:44] infrastructure projects, including the
[4:46] life-saving relocation of the North
[4:47] Canal. He is a founding member and past
[4:50] president of Drainage Superintendent
[4:52] Association of Ontario and continues to
[4:54] share his knowledge as a speaker and
[4:56] community advocate. Art Jans's passion,
[4:59] leadership, and dedication has left a
[5:00] lasting mark on Bradro Glumbry, making
[5:03] him truly an exceptional citizen of the
[5:05] year. So congratulations Mr. Jance.
[5:20] » Thank you for coming tonight.
[6:08] [Applause]
[6:20] Thank you very much.
[6:30] I should I think
[6:58] so.
[7:13] [Applause]
[7:28] Thank you, sir.
[7:58] All right, council. We're uh thank you
[8:00] everyone for allowing us that
[8:01] opportunity to share that uh citizen of
[8:04] the year award with Mr. Art Jance.
[8:07] Okay, we're on to deputations. There is
[8:08] none. We're at six. It's open form and I
[8:13] have right now I have one person signed
[8:15] up for open form and we have a written
[8:17] comment from form. So we'll start with
[8:20] uh Linda Usher
[8:22] from Bonhead. Come on up. It's in the
[8:24] Bonhead district. Von Head Heritage
[8:26] District topic
[8:41] and when you're ready, just hit the big
[8:42] purple button.
[8:45] >> Just Just put Nope. Push it. It's on
[8:48] » Just Just put Nope. Push it. It's on
[8:48] now.
[8:49] >> Thank you.
[8:58] Good evening, Mayor Leuk and council
[9:01] members. My name is Linda Usher and I am
[9:04] here to address item 94, Bond Head
[9:07] Heritage District on your council
[9:09] agenda. Being a resident of this
[9:11] fabulous community for over 50 years, I
[9:14] sincerely hope that council will approve
[9:17] of this motion as it has been several
[9:19] years in the development. There are many
[9:22] reasons to support this declaration. The
[9:25] famous suns associated with Bondad being
[9:28] one of the oldest hamlets in Simco
[9:30] County, the heritage buildings, special
[9:33] events and celebrations and public book
[9:36] publications.
[9:38] First four historians are Sir Francis
[9:41] Bondhead, sixth lieutenant governor of
[9:43] Upper Canada and a local resident named
[9:46] the hamlet after him in his honor after
[9:49] the rebellion of 1837.
[9:52] It was originally called Rags Corners,
[9:54] named after the first settler who
[9:56] arrived in 1829.
[9:59] Sir William Mu, Postmaster General of
[10:01] Canada. The Honorable Earl Row,
[10:04] Lieutenant Governor of Toronto and Chief
[10:06] Justice of Ontario and Vice Chancellor
[10:09] of the University of Toronto. He is
[10:11] actually a resident of Newton Robinson,
[10:13] but that is a very close neighbor to us.
[10:16] Sir William Oler, founder of modern
[10:19] diagnostic medicine. He is recognized
[10:22] internationally throughout the world. He
[10:25] has buildings named after him in various
[10:27] countries and we've even had people come
[10:30] from dist great distances to visit his
[10:32] memorial plaque on line 7. In 2012 it
[10:37] was declared one of the oldest hamlets
[10:39] in Simco County. And for that special
[10:42] recognition, a group of five volunteers,
[10:45] Pat Cranston, Bev Ferguson, Barry James,
[10:49] Mickey Nanowski, and myself as the
[10:51] chairperson put on a 3day festival in
[10:55] June to recognize our 175th anniversary
[10:59] of this hamlet. All three levels of
[11:02] government supported this special event.
[11:04] And what an event it was. heritage
[11:07] building walking tour. A span special
[11:09] banner, the first banner for our hamlet
[11:11] by the way, on the lamp post. A bond
[11:14] head stamp.
[11:16] I don't know whether you're aware of
[11:17] that or not, but we actually have a
[11:20] stamp that was published that year. Um,
[11:25] sorry. A dignitaries came, lots of
[11:28] activities and entertainment and even a
[11:30] professor heaven Hutchkins came all the
[11:32] way from British Columbia and an
[11:35] interfaith community service on Sunday
[11:37] made it possible for a donation for the
[11:39] Bradford Food Bank and Matthews House
[11:41] Hospice. Also, it was the first
[11:44] development of the Heritage plaques. Um,
[11:47] I understand that was in the newspaper
[11:49] recently and I do believe we had the
[11:51] first ones. There's that banner, by the
[11:53] way, in case you haven't seen it. It was
[11:56] in Bond Head and this was a stamp what
[11:59] it looked like. Okay. And um as I said,
[12:04] plaques were on the houses. You still
[12:06] see them there on the houses in Bond
[12:08] Head as well. The volunteer um committee
[12:12] organized the Oler bench uh dedication
[12:15] and a Bond Head bench and ginkle tree
[12:17] dedication and an old-fashioned picnic.
[12:21] Also there was a book entitled
[12:23] History of Bond Head Area 175 years.
[12:27] First printing was in 2020.
[12:30] This was uh headed by Vera Stewart and
[12:33] volunt sorry Vera Stoddard and uh they
[12:36] had volunteers that helped her. I was
[12:38] one of them. Another smaller book was
[12:41] entitled, and I know I have it here
[12:43] somewhere, but I'll find it. Um, about
[12:45] the plaque about the um old um plank
[12:49] road. It seemed to have misplaced it,
[12:51] I'm sorry. But it talked about the fact
[12:53] that I think we had the first plank road
[12:55] in Ontario just outside of Bonhead
[12:58] leading into Bradford.
[13:01] That was published in 1984.
[13:04] Also, were you aware that Bon Head held
[13:07] the first Santa Claus parade in the area
[13:10] of Bradford, Tottenham, Beaton, and
[13:12] Alist 50 years ago. And as well, there's
[13:16] a Bondhead song written and music by Joe
[13:19] Papino in 1974.
[13:22] And finally, most important are the
[13:24] heritage buildings with two that are are
[13:27] uh proincially designated and I believe
[13:30] there's 17 on the BWG registry. There
[13:35] may be others as there are 40 who are
[13:37] considered 100 years old and several 150
[13:41] years old in this community. The Hamlet
[13:44] of Bondhead is a remarkable survivor
[13:47] being 188 years old this year. I hope
[13:51] that the extensive research over the
[13:53] past several years recommends this
[13:55] designation and BW council proceeds with
[13:59] the needed bylaw to declare the heritage
[14:02] conservation district. Definitely Bond
[14:05] Head is a historical heritage gym within
[14:08] the town of BWG. It needs to be
[14:11] preserved, protected, its heritage, its
[14:14] history and identity. Thank you.
[14:19] >> Oh, thank you, Linda, for that. a
[14:21] » Oh, thank you, Linda, for that. a
[14:21] wonderful history lesson we had there
[14:23] and I it was perfect. It was wonderful.
[14:26] Good me. Oh, you found the book.
[14:27] >> Life on the old plank road. It um gosh
[14:30] » Life on the old plank road. It um gosh
[14:30] it was put out by the Toson West
[14:33] Willberry Historic Historical Society
[14:36] 1984.
[14:39] » Were we the first toll road in Ontario?
[14:42] >> I think it was if I correctly. Yes. The
[14:45] » I think it was if I correctly. Yes. The
[14:45] history says the first road
[14:47] >> and I think it went all the way to um
[14:50] » and I think it went all the way to um
[14:50] >> uh they're saying I think all the way to
[14:53] » uh they're saying I think all the way to
[14:53] just out Bradford.
[14:54] >> Yeah.
[14:55] » Yeah.
[14:55] >> Yeah.
[14:56] » Yeah.
[14:56] >> Yeah. Great history there.
[14:58] » Yeah. Great history there.
[14:58] >> So we're dealing with that later on our
[15:00] » So we're dealing with that later on our
[15:00] agenda and if you're around and if
[15:02] council has any questions or whatever
[15:03] they'd like to ask this she's such an
[15:05] expert in Bonhead that we would more
[15:07] than welcome you up if you would uh have
[15:09] any questions.
[15:10] >> The people you had looking after that
[15:11] » The people you had looking after that
[15:11] did great research. had a lot of
[15:13] meetings and they even had a walkabout
[15:15] as well that I took part in.
[15:17] >> There's a great report coming to our
[15:19] » There's a great report coming to our
[15:19] council on 9.4 and we look forward to
[15:21] that. So, thank you, Linda, for that.
[15:23] Appreciate that very much. And then we
[15:26] have a written submission. So, I'll have
[15:28] the clerk read that.
[15:33] » Yeah, we've received a written submit
[15:35] submission submit
[15:38] written submission from Brent Felman.
[15:41] So, I'll read that on his behalf. My
[15:43] name is Brent Felman. I think of mo most
[15:45] of you know me. I would have come in
[15:46] person, but it is my son's birthday and
[15:48] family comes before politics. Digital
[15:51] voting may be convenient, but it's not
[15:52] trustworthy or transparent. Canadians
[15:54] are increasingly losing confidence in
[15:56] our democratic processes, and continuing
[15:59] to use blackbox systems without a paper
[16:01] trail only fuels that distrust. A 2023
[16:04] ledger poll found that just 43% of
[16:07] Canadians trust elections, a sharp drop
[16:09] from 58% the year before.
[16:12] In 2018, 51 Ontario municipalities using
[16:15] Dominion voting systems suffered major
[16:18] disruptions when a bandwidth cap locked
[16:20] voters out of online voting. Canada has
[16:22] seen serious cyber security failures,
[16:24] including 11,000 plus CRA accounts
[16:27] hacked in 2020. Global Affairs Canada
[16:30] cyber attack in 2022. major hospital and
[16:33] RCMP systems targeted. If our federal
[16:36] and provincial systems aren't secure,
[16:38] how can we expect municipal digital
[16:40] elections to be online voting also
[16:43] removes public transparency? With paper
[16:45] ballots, scrutiners and candidates can
[16:47] observe the process. With digital
[16:49] voting, the system counts itself, and
[16:50] there's no way for the average voter to
[16:52] verify their vote was counted correctly.
[16:54] Council, you have the power to restore
[16:56] public confidence. Please say no to
[16:58] online and telephone voting. Bring back
[17:00] paper ballots. the gold standard of
[17:03] transparent verifiable elections.
[17:05] Respectfully, Brent Felman.
[17:08] >> All right. Thank you for that. That's uh
[17:10] » All right. Thank you for that. That's uh
[17:10] dealing with we'll be dealing with that
[17:12] later on at 9.8 in our agenda. And
[17:15] there's no further open form
[17:17] submissions.
[17:20] Okay. So, we're on to uh seven, adoption
[17:22] of the minutes and committee hold
[17:24] recommendations. So I have 7.1
[17:26] recommendation that the minutes of the
[17:27] regular council meeting dated June 17
[17:29] 2025 be adopted as printed moving a
[17:31] second please by deputy mayor seconded
[17:34] by councelor farini question concerns
[17:38] councelor Scott thanks m just a quick
[17:41] one to the cio we referred the line 8
[17:44] report and the delegation of authority
[17:46] bylaw report but we didn't specify in
[17:49] the motion when we wanted them to come
[17:50] back I think we said as quickly as
[17:52] possible but would we be able to confirm
[17:54] a timeline on those, please.
[18:01] » Thank you. Uh we expect to have both of
[18:02] those reports in front of council in
[18:04] September.
[18:08] Okay. Any further questions, comments
[18:10] with the minutes? Seeing none, all in
[18:12] favor?
[18:14] Carrie. Thank you. 7.2 adoption of
[18:17] special council minutes. Recommendation
[18:18] of the minutes of the special meeting of
[18:19] council dated July 2nd, 2025 be adopted
[18:22] as printed. Move a second, please.
[18:24] Councelor Scott, second by councelor
[18:26] Dyke. Question or concerns with these
[18:28] minutes?
[18:30] Seeing none, all in favor? Carried.
[18:32] Thank you. We're into correspondence. We
[18:35] have uh two items on correspondence. We
[18:36] have 8.1, the integrity commissioner
[18:38] periodic report 2025. So, the
[18:41] recommendation that council receive the
[18:42] 2025 integrity commissioners periodic
[18:44] report for information. I move second on
[18:47] the floor by councelor Dyke, councelor
[18:50] Bkite, seconded by councelor Harper.
[18:52] questions, concerns with the report.
[18:56] Oh, okay. Councelor Scott and Councelor
[18:58] Harper.
[19:00] >> Thank you again. I I'll just comment. I
[19:01] » Thank you again. I I'll just comment. I
[19:02] didn't want this to go unnoticed. Uh
[19:04] first, thank you to our integrity
[19:06] commissioners for this thoughtful
[19:07] update. We've had conversations several
[19:11] times both in public and in private
[19:12] around what they're raising in the
[19:15] report. And I think it's worth just
[19:17] dwelling on the fact that we have the
[19:18] integrity commissioner formally
[19:20] reminding us of what is expected of the
[19:22] mayor and what's expected of council.
[19:24] Tone at the top really matters and
[19:26] respect isn't just a word that we teach
[19:28] children in school. It's how we're
[19:29] expected to operate in a professional
[19:31] workplace. This isn't about politics.
[19:33] It's about setting standards. And the
[19:35] public deserves a council that leads by
[19:37] example, that listens, respects
[19:39] boundaries, and models the kind of
[19:41] conduct we want to see throughout the
[19:43] organization. So our job notwithstanding
[19:46] so-called strong mayor powers is to set
[19:48] the strategic direction and provide
[19:50] oversight and we work collaboratively
[19:52] with each other and with our staff to do
[19:54] that. So it's important that staff know
[19:56] that there to give frank advice and
[19:58] loyal implementation as the saying goes
[20:00] and that council's got to respect that
[20:02] frank advice and has to expect the loyal
[20:05] implementation. We employ you to be
[20:08] experts and we need to hear your advice.
[20:10] We're not always going to agree as a
[20:12] council and that's fine. But we can
[20:14] disagree without crossing lines. We can
[20:16] keep calm, act professionally, and when
[20:19] we are confused or unsure about
[20:21] something, we can seek guidance rather
[20:23] than getting angry, whether that's about
[20:24] a policy question or a procedural one.
[20:27] This report's timely. A year from now,
[20:29] we'll be electing a new council. But for
[20:31] the remainder of this term, staff and
[20:33] the public deserve to have confidence
[20:35] that council wants to set a good tone at
[20:36] the top, that the character of our
[20:39] elected officials matter, and that this
[20:41] is a professional workplace where
[20:42] everyone deserves to be safe and
[20:44] respected. So once again, I think the
[20:46] integrity commissioner has given us a
[20:48] timely update on what is expected of
[20:50] members of council and uh I trust the
[20:53] public will hold us accountable to those
[20:54] standards.
[20:57] >> Thank you, Councelor Harper.
[21:01] » Thank you, Councelor Harper.
[21:01] Thank you, mayor. I appreciate the
[21:03] report from integrity commissioner on
[21:05] this uh from principles integrity. Uh I
[21:08] I understand the aim that was to promote
[21:10] ethical behavior in municipal government
[21:12] uh raise public trust in in elected
[21:15] officials and encourage accountability,
[21:17] transparency, and respect within the
[21:19] council and local boards. I took a
[21:22] little bit uh of confusing
[21:26] um remarks from it when they failed to
[21:28] actually
[21:30] report more transparency in regards to
[21:33] the amount they gave us the amount of
[21:35] conduct or or amount of investigations.
[21:38] And while I understand the positive and
[21:40] fostering respect and professionalism to
[21:43] try to make ethical governance uh whole
[21:47] in regards to informal processes and
[21:49] that's fine, but I believe it lacks a
[21:51] little bit of transparency and and hard
[21:54] performance data that the public
[21:56] deserves to know. If the if the
[21:58] objective is to informally resolve most
[22:01] things and that's their goal as it says
[22:03] in the report, I understand that
[22:05] direction and that's okay if it can
[22:07] formally resolve. But the matters of
[22:10] what types of occurrences and maybe
[22:12] that's reflective in the type of
[22:14] material that's being transparent to us
[22:15] in regards to what they would like to
[22:17] portray in the in the the messaging, but
[22:21] without fully being transparent, it it
[22:24] certainly I I would think some would
[22:27] take it as like a lack of transparency
[22:29] and I would hope that they could come
[22:31] back and give us a little bit more
[22:33] detail the data and the transparency of
[22:35] what happens. um the the particular
[22:39] details don't matter, but it's about
[22:41] outlining the types of like things that
[22:42] they did solve.
[22:44] So, I'll just leave it at that.
[22:48] Okay. Thank you, Councini.
[22:53] Thank you. Um
[22:56] so, this is this has been my third term
[22:59] on council and I'll be honest that I was
[23:01] kind of disappointed when I read this
[23:03] report uh that they put forward.
[23:06] Councelor Scott hit on quite a few
[23:08] things and he and he put it nicely. When
[23:11] I read this, I almost felt like it was
[23:14] um it was like a parent scolding a child
[23:17] when this came forward to me because it
[23:20] was reminding council to play nice in
[23:24] the sandbox with everybody. Working
[23:25] together. We're here as a group and
[23:26] we're supposed to work together. We can
[23:28] we can um disagree. That's what it's all
[23:31] about. We can debate. It's all it's all
[23:33] about. But when it goes that step
[23:35] further, it's not right. And that's not
[23:37] what council is about. Uh there was a
[23:40] section about non-disparagement and it
[23:42] had to remind council that it's healthy
[23:45] to debate and disagree, but it's a
[23:47] reminder not to attack other members of
[23:49] council and name call. Uh there was a
[23:52] section about social media posts and a
[23:54] reminder about non-disparagement on
[23:56] there to call out members of council
[23:58] because it could be and would be
[23:59] recorded.
[24:01] Uh one of the other areas uh of concern
[24:04] that continue to arise relates to
[24:05] members of councils overstepping their
[24:07] role attempting to take the reigns or
[24:09] fix a constituent's problem or directing
[24:11] staff how to do their job. So the
[24:13] elected officials our job as a council
[24:16] and we had to be reminded in this is
[24:19] that we don't have role we don't have a
[24:21] role in the daytoday administration of
[24:24] municipal government government unless
[24:27] we're specifically authorized by the
[24:28] stat the statute. So when residents come
[24:32] to us obviously we are to be the voice
[24:35] and we are to bring those forward and
[24:36] tell and ask staff or tell staff here's
[24:39] a concern where can we look at this and
[24:40] staff bring us their professional
[24:42] expertise and we can make decisions
[24:45] based on reports that are brought to us.
[24:46] We set policies similar to what
[24:48] councelor Scott was bringing up. We set
[24:49] policies and we work with the budget to
[24:51] make sure that we spend taxpayers
[24:53] dollars wisely. But that's the role of
[24:56] council. No further than that. So, it
[25:00] was kind of disappointing to me reading
[25:03] this report and having to have these
[25:05] reminders, especially coming to the end
[25:07] of our term right now. It just kind of
[25:10] it was almost like a little salt on the
[25:11] wound reading that one and I I didn't
[25:13] like it, but I appreciate that came
[25:15] forward.
[25:18] » Okay. Thank you. Maybe I'll I'll comment
[25:21] too on it. It's a it's a you know, it's
[25:23] a disturbing report in a sense. We have
[25:25] I've never seen this many uh reports IC
[25:28] IC reports before. I've been here five
[25:30] terms now and this is the most I've ever
[25:31] seen for this council and Bradford
[25:33] McGomery. So, um but I will say that,
[25:36] you know, we we've had our differences
[25:37] at council and that's fine. It's it's
[25:39] okay to have those differences and not
[25:41] uh not agree with everybody at the same
[25:42] time. That's that's fine, too. Um I can
[25:45] tell you though, there are a lot of
[25:46] councils out there and speaking with the
[25:48] integrity commissioners, there's a lot
[25:50] of councils out there that have a lot of
[25:51] problems and we are pretty lucky to be
[25:54] the council we are because we actually
[25:56] do work very well together and we get
[25:58] things done. That's the key is getting
[25:59] things done. And so, uh, there are some
[26:02] councils out there that are in serious
[26:03] trouble. I mean, the province stepped
[26:05] into the Mathan Black River and removed
[26:07] that council, took over that one. And
[26:09] the Pickering Council has problems and
[26:11] there's all sorts of problems right
[26:12] across this country. It has gotten much
[26:15] more difficult to be a politician in
[26:17] this country. So, it's a difficult
[26:19] thing, but uh it's a great report in a
[26:21] sense that it keeps us uh it lets us
[26:22] understand some of the things we need to
[26:24] do better and uh I as a leader will do
[26:26] my best to do better and make sure that
[26:28] we uh follow the rules and make sure
[26:30] that we deliver what we need to do when
[26:31] it comes to council and serve our
[26:32] residents the best we can. So, that's my
[26:35] uh promise to everyone is to make sure I
[26:36] do a better job myself. So, okay. So, I
[26:40] have Yeah, go ahead.
[26:42] >> So, I'm glad we got to have a bit of a
[26:44] » So, I'm glad we got to have a bit of a
[26:44] discussion there. Um the mayor just said
[26:46] the key thing is getting things done. I
[26:48] agree getting things done properly is
[26:51] the next part of that sentence and it's
[26:52] equally as important and uh yes there
[26:55] are councils that have a lot of problems
[26:57] but we have to hold ourselves to a high
[26:59] standard because our our public is
[27:01] watching and so it it it doesn't satisfy
[27:04] to be know to know that we're better
[27:05] than Pickering and the problems they're
[27:06] having there.
[27:09] >> Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll uh
[27:13] » Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll uh
[27:13] call for the vote. I've got a mover or a
[27:14] second on this. So, all in favor?
[27:18] Carried. Thank you. Uh, we're on to the
[27:21] second one. The Township of Georgian Bay
[27:23] Regulation for floating accommodations.
[27:24] I have recommendation that council
[27:25] receive and support the Township of
[27:27] Georgian Bay resolution dated June 2nd
[27:29] 25 regarding the regulation of floating
[27:31] accommodations. Move a second. Please
[27:33] put this on the floor
[27:35] by councelor Scott. Second by councelor
[27:37] Harper. Questions or concerns? Councelor
[27:42] Thank you, Mayor. Can I get a point of
[27:44] clarification regards to what it's
[27:45] asking us to do in this report? There's
[27:47] two options. Uh, one is to just
[27:49] basically deny flotation and the other
[27:52] one is to support it with moorings and
[27:55] stuff. So, could I add clarification as
[27:56] to what it's asking us to confirm?
[28:02] » Yeah. So George and BA's uh their their
[28:05] recommendation is that now they're so it
[28:07] says whereas flotation accommodations
[28:08] position paper April 2025 provides
[28:11] detailed guidance to Ontario mispalities
[28:12] on the regulation of floating
[28:14] accommodations highlighted critical
[28:15] legal and environmental challenges. And
[28:17] whereas the document uh identifies
[28:19] significant gaps in current provincial
[28:21] and federal frameworks that
[28:22] municipalities are best positioned to
[28:23] address through zoning and land use
[28:25] bylaws. And whereas the paper recommends
[28:27] proactive municipal action based on
[28:30] successful case studies and legal
[28:31] precedences such as the Gillespie versus
[28:34] Ontario decision. And whereas Georgian
[28:36] Bay Township has already taken steps to
[28:38] address floating accommodations has and
[28:40] has an interest in promoting inter
[28:42] municipal collaboration on this issue.
[28:44] Now therefore be resolved that council
[28:45] receive the floating accommodation paper
[28:47] position paper May 2025 for
[28:50] informationational purposes and that the
[28:51] clerk be further directed to forward the
[28:53] document and this resolution to
[28:55] association pala and members for
[28:57] consideration of potential provincial
[28:58] advocacy.
[29:01] Yeah, go ahead.
[29:02] >> Thank you, mayor. Uh when while I read
[29:04] » Thank you, mayor. Uh when while I read
[29:04] that too, there still didn't tell us
[29:06] which one which option we want to do,
[29:08] one or two in this report. So that's why
[29:11] I'm asking for a clarification. Which
[29:13] way are we headed on this? It looks more
[29:15] like number two, which definitely
[29:16] supports uh restricted floating
[29:18] accommodations to fixed and permanent
[29:20] moorings because then those will be held
[29:22] to more collaborative bylaws, municipal
[29:25] guidelines and and municipal zoning
[29:27] bylaws as well. So, am I correct to
[29:29] assume that?
[29:30] >> I think you're correct to assume that.
[29:32] » I think you're correct to assume that.
[29:32] It's actually two. I'm sorry.
[29:34] >> Thank you.
[29:34] » Thank you.
[29:34] >> It's actually two. Uh, but it'll be at
[29:36] » It's actually two. Uh, but it'll be at
[29:36] AMO. We'll push it through AMO.
[29:38] Hopefully with councelor Dehane support
[29:40] at AMO, we'll be able to push that
[29:41] through and I think it's something that
[29:42] we all have to be aware of.
[29:44] >> Thank you. So, thank you. Okay. Further
[29:47] » Thank you. So, thank you. Okay. Further
[29:47] comments or questions? Seeing none,
[29:49] we'll call for the vote. All in favor?
[29:52] Carried. Thank you.
[29:54] Okay, we're into
[29:56] number nine staff reports 9.1. So our
[29:58] first staff report is a community
[30:00] improvement plan CIP program uh options
[30:03] EOD EDO2 2025-3 and we have a
[30:07] presentation by Jonathan Hack from Sarah
[30:09] Planning. So
[30:11] on up.
[30:21] Good evening.
[30:24] » Um,
[30:26] so we have a quick presentation and it
[30:28] uh it summarizes what was a fairly big
[30:31] and lengthy report from us as
[30:33] consultants in your package along with a
[30:35] staff report. So I'll just get straight
[30:37] into it
[30:39] if I have the technology to be able to
[30:41] do that. Next slide.
[30:44] There you go. I won't waste much time on
[30:46] what is a CIP. you've um obviously the
[30:50] this particular council has heard from
[30:52] us several times but just to go through
[30:54] that history for everyone's benefit. So
[30:57] in uh the last sort of updates were 2022
[31:00] to the programs currently on hiatus. The
[31:02] seniors housing which was a successful
[31:05] CIP is has essentially been on hiatus
[31:07] and I think now is a recommendation to
[31:09] to remove that. Um but uh since then in
[31:15] December of 2023 we came forward with
[31:17] sort of a comprehensive set of
[31:19] performance metrics how they've how
[31:21] these CIPs have performed both the
[31:23] downtown and the industrial and um and
[31:26] then um in the fall of of last year we
[31:30] had a a roundt facilitation which I
[31:34] really appreciated everyone in on
[31:35] council being able to give some of their
[31:38] opinions and I think the opinions help
[31:40] shape what we've put into the uh into
[31:43] the both the reporting that we provided
[31:46] we summarize the the book ends of of
[31:48] opinion and I think uh the programs that
[31:51] we're suggesting go forward in different
[31:53] phases uh reflect that so the CIP has
[31:56] sort of been under the microscope and
[31:58] this is the next iteration of that with
[32:00] with some recommendations before you if
[32:02] you can just go to the next slide
[32:04] please.
[32:07] Yeah. So that really summarizes all of
[32:09] the various changes uh that have been
[32:11] put in place. So you can go through to
[32:13] the next slide.
[32:16] So
[32:19] thank you. So just to you know one of
[32:22] the things we do want to we we recognize
[32:25] there is there are considerations and
[32:27] council's been very clear about it of
[32:29] how best to use for example various
[32:31] programs in effect for downtown and then
[32:33] for the industrial CIP. How can we
[32:36] change it? How can we make sure that the
[32:37] money that you are spending through the
[32:40] public purse is is is going to generate
[32:43] maximum impact. So the next couple of
[32:45] slides just give you an indication of
[32:47] you know whether there's some staying
[32:49] power some of the some of these
[32:50] programs. So irregardless of whether the
[32:53] DI the downtown CIP is bigger held in
[32:57] obeyance whatever it might be the types
[32:59] of programs that remain relevant are
[33:02] itemized there. So, facade improvement
[33:04] grant, that's the one that is the most
[33:06] visual. Uh, but there again, you're not
[33:09] in the business of essentially providing
[33:12] benefits to particular tenencies and
[33:15] leaseold improvements and using
[33:17] corporate signage. You're looking for
[33:18] improvements to the building, sand
[33:20] blasting the brick, you know, going with
[33:23] the right kind of uh guidelines
[33:26] and and so that has, as long as that's
[33:28] in place, that still has some merit. uh
[33:31] particularly for the for the older stock
[33:33] uh in town the building restoration
[33:35] renovation and improvement grant. So
[33:37] just for everyone's uh recollection that
[33:40] was a sort of a bigger budget grant that
[33:43] could be used for internal renovations
[33:45] to improve the the capability of these
[33:49] commercial buildings and could include
[33:51] some upper floor um residential
[33:53] conversions. Council has had some
[33:55] concerns over the years with how the
[33:58] money is allocated to best effect.
[34:00] You're not critiquing the particulars,
[34:02] but the idea is that you want to make
[34:04] sure that whatever money is put in goes
[34:07] to the long-term sustainability of the
[34:09] building and not uh what you generally
[34:12] call as as property owners
[34:15] responsibility for life cycle
[34:17] maintenance and all the usual things
[34:18] that we all have to have to fund. So,
[34:21] uh, that's still, as long as that is the
[34:23] case, that's that fund if it's used
[34:25] surgically can still be of some benefit.
[34:28] Planning fees and building permits,
[34:29] they're often used, you know, they don't
[34:31] have great leverage power because
[34:34] they're not huge amounts of money, but
[34:36] they are money that you have to find
[34:37] from a CIP reserve. So, they are money
[34:40] coming out of the tax base and it's
[34:43] really an opportunity to signal a
[34:46] continued open for business um, uh,
[34:49] role. So it goes alongside some of the
[34:51] other programs and strategies that the
[34:53] town is putting in place. Development
[34:55] charges are, you know, they've been
[34:57] subject to considerable legislative
[35:00] changes. So we continue to try and sort
[35:02] of play catchup. But as it relates to
[35:04] commercial, leaving housing aside for a
[35:06] moment, there's some some potential to
[35:10] be used for development charges, but
[35:12] nothing like as it was in the past as it
[35:14] relates to industrial, for example. Um,
[35:17] so that last one, development charge
[35:19] equivalent grant, we're really not using
[35:21] that anymore and not not proposing that
[35:23] for for the uh industrial CIP either.
[35:27] Uh, next slide, please.
[35:31] Some you know other matters that council
[35:34] has weighed in on and that we've we've
[35:36] got some considerations in the report
[35:38] and and the recommendations.
[35:40] Agricultural businesses, what what's the
[35:42] nature of the issue to be solved? How
[35:45] should you or um assist is there a role
[35:48] for a community improvement plan? Um the
[35:52] historic nature of properties in some of
[35:54] the urban and rural areas, particularly
[35:55] bond heads. So we've addressed that. The
[35:58] whole matter of using tax increment
[36:00] grants, try and make it as effective as
[36:02] possible. It's still tax money that is
[36:04] owed to the municipality that is granted
[36:06] back. So although it's deferred revenue,
[36:09] it needs to be looked at as that
[36:10] deferred revenue. You still have the
[36:12] cooperating costs for municipal services
[36:15] that taxes are meant to support. So if
[36:17] you're giving taxes back, it has to be
[36:19] effectively uh uh getting the the
[36:22] impacts that you want in terms of
[36:24] economic development. Then a number of
[36:26] other ones which are not on the slate
[36:28] for consideration right now, but uh in a
[36:30] if council um or even a future council
[36:33] wants to consider it, uh looking at um
[36:36] housing elements of a community
[36:38] improvement plan. Very complicated.
[36:41] again got to be very careful in terms of
[36:44] uh matching the funding to the the
[36:47] realistic outcomes that you can you can
[36:49] achieve. Uh but that there's a number of
[36:52] different uh programs that can be put in
[36:54] place there. And then you know the idea
[36:56] that in the future there is the
[36:58] opportunity to to use CIPs in a very uh
[37:01] strategic way for example to get
[37:04] particular kinds of development. Hotel
[37:06] is a good example of of that one. Next
[37:08] slide please.
[37:12] So, I won't go through too much of the
[37:14] detail here. It is covered off in the
[37:16] staffing um report, but as it relates to
[37:19] the industrial areas CIP, and I I should
[37:22] just take a moment just to to note that,
[37:26] you know, Bradford was one of the first
[37:28] to put an industrial areas CIP in place
[37:31] and it was generously funded for a
[37:34] number of years and it's been extreme.
[37:36] If you look at the metrics of money in
[37:39] versus the the leveraged amount that
[37:42] it's provided, it's been very
[37:43] successful. Um, so we wanted to
[37:47] continue. It's certainly a consultant's
[37:48] recommendation that it's got a lot of
[37:50] merit and it goes alongside the
[37:52] recommendation that we think that for a
[37:55] range of reasons but being most
[37:57] practical uh expanding the community
[38:00] improvement project area to the entirety
[38:02] of the municipality is is it's
[38:05] essentially an administrative step. Um
[38:08] I'll be happy to take any questions on
[38:10] it but what it does is allows you to for
[38:12] example look at employment wherever
[38:15] employment is happening. So, we've had
[38:17] conversations about do you or do you not
[38:19] incentivize Highway 400 lands, for
[38:22] example. And I think what we're trying
[38:24] to do here is say that um you need to
[38:28] and and council was very clear the last
[38:30] time we were here, whatever assistance
[38:32] you give to industry has to be that
[38:34] which is going to make a significant
[38:36] difference. And so, it's focusing on
[38:39] larger employers, larger floor space.
[38:42] You see on the right side of the page
[38:43] there, it should be geared to higher
[38:46] order land use in in industrial terms.
[38:49] So that's manufacturing, logistics,
[38:52] technology, the kinds of things that are
[38:54] going to end up coming out of the
[38:56] separate industrial land strategy that
[39:00] is currently underway by Averson Young.
[39:02] So this this is this is an important one
[39:04] and it's going to be using a tax
[39:06] increment grant um using the municipal
[39:09] tax uh for a for a maximum of seven
[39:12] years and at a rate of 50%. So
[39:15] potentially given the industrial tax
[39:18] rates that's a sizable uh amount. So
[39:20] there's some if council moves forward
[39:22] with moving on and Rick bringing back
[39:25] the IAIP taking it off hiatus status
[39:29] then I think there's some number
[39:30] crunching that needs to be done to just
[39:32] give council the advice of exactly what
[39:34] you might be in for in terms of foregone
[39:36] revenues because as I said tax taxes tax
[39:40] increment grants are you know they they
[39:43] look good and they are good but they're
[39:45] still public money which is being
[39:47] utilized so we have to do a very good
[39:49] job
[39:50] assessing the merit on each application.
[39:52] Next slide. Thanks.
[39:58] Thanks. For the DCIP for downtown, the
[40:00] essential um restructuring of that is to
[40:05] uh make sure and the last bullet on the
[40:07] on the left hand side, make sure
[40:09] buildings are improved with long-term
[40:12] viability as a commercial premises to
[40:14] meet all code and modern accessibility
[40:16] standards. So make it as impactful as
[40:19] possible. That's true for facade
[40:21] improvements as it is for any of the
[40:23] other programs. But try and align this
[40:26] in terms of timing with the uh potential
[40:28] the reconstruction that's happening with
[40:30] Holland Street. There are some
[40:31] opportunities to defer then until we
[40:34] have a second phase for that. Next
[40:36] slide.
[40:43] Thanks. Just continuing on, there's
[40:44] still a role for planning and building
[40:46] fee grants um to um be able to provide
[40:51] um a smaller level of assistance to
[40:54] plans for uh investment in downtown that
[40:57] do require uh planning applications to
[41:00] be made and building permits to be to be
[41:03] filed. And then the public art and mural
[41:05] grant program is really uh one where
[41:08] we're uh you know recommending continue
[41:09] it under current guidelines but updated
[41:12] and potentially incorporated into a new
[41:14] DCIP if that were to happen in the next
[41:17] year year or so. Next slide.
[41:25] I do think again this this is this is
[41:28] really um not part of the
[41:30] recommendations for this evening but
[41:31] just looking forward if you're going to
[41:34] uh if council has a wish to get into
[41:36] housing um and to look at more specific
[41:39] forms of assistance that can assist
[41:42] general um housing development. Then
[41:45] things like having an environmental site
[41:47] assessment grant can be helpful. That's
[41:48] with uh with regard to contaminated
[41:50] lands cleanup. And then of course you've
[41:53] got a range of housing uh project
[41:56] housing uh affordability measures that
[41:58] can be put in place to some degree and
[42:00] then also looking at bondhead in terms
[42:02] of commercial properties for the
[42:03] improvements there as well. On the a on
[42:05] the tourism on the agriculture side
[42:07] we've moved in the direction of really
[42:10] focus on tourism to the extent that
[42:11] there is a tourism market to be served
[42:13] as opposed to assisting general
[42:15] agricultural operations. uh because it's
[42:18] um I think that's the thin end of a very
[42:20] big uh issue and uh again if we're
[42:23] trying to do everything the CIP will be
[42:25] washed out pretty quickly. So council's
[42:27] going to have to make some choices as to
[42:29] where it focuses its attention. Next
[42:32] slide.
[42:37] Um, I'm not going to read through these,
[42:40] but there the the work that's being done
[42:42] to phase any improvements to the CIP
[42:46] both before the new council and after
[42:48] when there's a new council in place at
[42:50] the end of 2026 is all hinged upon a
[42:54] range of things that have been uh
[42:55] undertaken and are ongoing uh within the
[42:58] municipality. So, they're listed there.
[43:01] You know, we could add to that the
[43:03] heritage conservation district work
[43:05] which I know which is is upcoming this
[43:07] evening as it relates to bond head and
[43:09] the housing needs uh in particular and
[43:12] concierge program as it relates to
[43:14] focusing on the benefits of uh
[43:16] employment development.
[43:18] Next slide.
[43:24] So you you do have a staff report in in
[43:26] front of you which summarizes a lot of
[43:28] this but just to sort of
[43:31] uh consolidate everything I've been
[43:33] saying. The first there's a number of
[43:35] phases. The first of which which is to
[43:38] reactivate the industrial areas
[43:40] community improvement plan and to do so
[43:43] with council approve approval to work on
[43:46] those programs that I had outlined and
[43:49] to determine the relative size of budget
[43:51] that is required and look for any
[43:52] sources of funding that may be there to
[43:55] assist. Um the second phase which is uh
[43:59] sort of second quarter 2026 through to
[44:01] the end of the year and into 2027
[44:04] would be to reconsider the downtown
[44:06] community improvement plan based on the
[44:09] commentary that we've heard from council
[44:11] uh when we facilitate facilitated that
[44:13] session back in October of last year.
[44:16] third phase if you were to move forward
[44:18] again similar timelines would be to
[44:20] address um housing and that would
[44:23] dovetail with presumably the conclusion
[44:26] of some of the other housing strategy
[44:27] work that's being done so it's premature
[44:30] now but it's appropriate then and then
[44:32] the fourth phase I think is to uh to
[44:35] look at any potential for the
[44:37] agricultural areas and that's put there
[44:39] because in terms of our priorities we're
[44:41] clear on it we see it as a lesser
[44:43] priority than the other aspects that you
[44:45] have before you. So that is uh that is
[44:49] the plan in a nutshell. Um and uh I'd be
[44:52] happy to take any questions if I can
[44:54] hand it back to you, Mr. May. All right.
[44:57] Thank you, Mr. Hack, for that
[44:58] presentation.
[45:00] All right, council. I open the floor up
[45:01] for any questions to the presentation or
[45:03] to the ECD. We have a report that has a
[45:07] couple of options here.
[45:09] So,
[45:11] anybody want to put an option on the
[45:12] floor? Councelor Viky,
[45:14] >> I guess I'm going put to option number
[45:15] » I guess I'm going put to option number
[45:15] one. Um, I would like to see the I see
[45:19] all the benefits and I see industrial
[45:22] benefits that's taking place and I've
[45:25] seen a few benefits definitely and in
[45:28] some of the um storefronts and various
[45:31] different uh projects. But I think in
[45:33] these financial times uh until we see
[45:37] the budget for this fall, I would I
[45:39] would be very cautious. I know that you
[45:41] put money at at different things, it
[45:43] could be very beneficial, but I just uh
[45:46] you know, I just worried what with all
[45:48] the big financial capital that's needed
[45:51] uh in the future. How much can we really
[45:52] afford? So, I'm just I'm just trying to
[45:54] be uh just trying to be um um I guess
[45:58] penny penny tight in in a sense because
[46:02] there's a lot of things need to be done.
[46:04] I know that there's a lot of buildings
[46:05] accessibility
[46:07] um openings and and storefronts and
[46:10] access be behind or construction.
[46:13] There's a lot of things that will
[46:14] benefit but but I feel that until we
[46:16] look at the budget uh um to see what we
[46:19] can afford and what we can't afford.
[46:20] That's I'm just speaking myself
[46:22] personally.
[46:24] Okay. Thank you. Uh so I've got option
[46:26] one, but we'll just go around a little
[46:28] bit to see and then we'll get a sense of
[46:29] what we want. You want to second it?
[46:30] Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I' got that's
[46:33] what you're seconding. Okay, we have a
[46:34] second for that uh on the table option
[46:36] one. So now I'll go to more comments. I
[46:39] had you had your councelor Harper first
[46:41] and I'll come across this way. Thank
[46:42] you.
[46:44] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh I appreciate my
[46:46] » Thank you, Mayor. Uh I appreciate my
[46:46] colleagues representing option one with
[46:48] a second motion from my uh colleague
[46:50] from W three. I I I I have to support
[46:53] that um the phases in which you brought
[46:57] forward and the amount of results when I
[47:01] came to council this DCIP and CIP and
[47:04] the industrial
[47:06] um CIP program were already in place. I
[47:08] supported and supported council's
[47:11] decision from past decisions to the best
[47:13] of my ability. there were people that
[47:15] did benefit from it and there were
[47:17] concerns uh about it but I didn't see a
[47:21] vast improvement that I would have hoped
[47:22] that these CIP programs would have
[47:25] created would have been huge
[47:27] transformations but I didn't see huge
[47:31] uh I saw loopholes that people were were
[47:33] taking were using and helping their
[47:36] businesses and I'm happy to oblige u
[47:39] because they follow the guidelines that
[47:40] were set in place no harm no foul but I
[47:44] believe that it didn't give us the exact
[47:46] amount of return on the investment that
[47:50] was put into it and that's my opinion.
[47:53] The other part of this is that you have
[47:55] a phase in there regarding affordable
[47:57] housing and that part without actually
[48:01] taking into account of any polling or
[48:05] any data support of the residents that
[48:08] come to Bradford for the feel and look
[48:11] and feel of this community. that type of
[48:13] phase would actually detrimentally
[48:16] change the look and feel of what people
[48:18] buy here for. And that part I don't
[48:21] like. Um, so it would need some work.
[48:24] I'm not opposed to, you know, the actual
[48:28] premise of affordable housing. I just
[48:30] see that there's some challenges with
[48:32] that phase.
[48:34] So I believe I'm going to support option
[48:36] one on this and I appreciate your
[48:38] efforts and the work you've done so far.
[48:40] Thank you very much.
[48:43] Okay, thank you. I have now uh councelor
[48:46] Sandu, councelor Perin, and councelor
[48:48] Dehanei.
[48:51] » Thank you, your worship, Mr. Hack. Thank
[48:53] you, Mr. Gillis. Thanks for your
[48:56] presentation and your report.
[48:59] When we started the CIP program years
[49:02] ago, I I believed in it and and I still
[49:05] think it's a good program, but I also uh
[49:08] think this council was right when we put
[49:10] it on. Here it is. Uh to hit a pause
[49:13] button on it and I still think right now
[49:16] is not the time to activate it. Um I
[49:19] agree with option one. Um there's lots
[49:23] of good stuff in this report, but
[49:25] there's also more work that needs to be
[49:27] done. like phase three, we're talking
[49:29] about affordable housing and other
[49:30] housing on options, but there's other
[49:32] levels of government that we should be
[49:35] exploring and seeing what partnership we
[49:37] can get. Um I either I missed it or I
[49:42] don't see that in the report. Um there's
[49:46] uh downtown CIP. Um we had many concerns
[49:52] um when the applications came forward
[49:54] and we addressed some some are still
[49:56] outstanding. Um and based on it comes
[50:00] down to dollar
[50:02] report says that as of January 1st 2026
[50:05] we will have $65,000 in that reserve.
[50:09] That's not even enough to fund one
[50:12] project. and and it says to put more
[50:15] money into it at the budget time but
[50:18] there's other hot issues that we need to
[50:21] deal with. This is uh nice to have but
[50:25] not must in my mind and right now I
[50:26] would support option one.
[50:30] >> Thank you and thank you to members of
[50:32] » Thank you and thank you to members of
[50:32] council that have spoken. Just a couple
[50:33] of issues just to give a little bit of
[50:35] context on maybe I'll deal with that one
[50:37] first. So 65,000 and yeah it's not a lot
[50:39] of budget. The approach I would look at
[50:42] though if you were to go down the track
[50:44] of reopening the industrial areas CIP
[50:48] is the focus essentially is on a tax
[50:51] increment grant. So that again as I
[50:54] hopefully I've been very clear it's
[50:56] still public money but it's not a draw
[50:58] on the reserve unless you choose it to
[51:00] be a draw on the reserve. So you can
[51:03] take the money in and then rebate it
[51:05] back at the rate of 50% for you know
[51:08] whatever the eligible costs are. Maybe
[51:10] it's seven years, maybe it's three
[51:11] years, depends on the application. So I
[51:13] would not necessarily align the the low
[51:17] budget that exists in the reserve now
[51:20] with the with uh a reason as to not do
[51:23] the um industrial area CIP unless you
[51:26] think that 65 can be better spent
[51:28] elsewhere. That's obviously council's
[51:29] decision. So that's one thing on the uh
[51:32] on the housing side of things. I think
[51:34] it's really important to to recognize we
[51:37] we haven't put forward a plan in any
[51:39] way. We haven't done the research. All
[51:41] we've done is give an indication of what
[51:44] programs are in effect elsewhere and
[51:46] some of those locations like a Barry or
[51:49] G are where they have significant funds
[51:52] through the housing accelerator fund
[51:53] that they obtained. questions about
[51:56] planning prudence on this and whether
[51:58] it's a good thing. Those are things you
[52:00] would get into if you commissioned to
[52:03] look at a plan. So, I just want to be
[52:05] clear that we're not uh we're not
[52:07] actually recommending any one program at
[52:09] this point. We're just saying phase
[52:11] three, if you had a mind to do it,
[52:13] that's the period at which that's that's
[52:15] when you would focus on it um within the
[52:17] the work plan. Thank you. Comment
[52:22] >> that that is why Mr. hack. I'm saying we
[52:25] » that that is why Mr. hack. I'm saying we
[52:25] hit the continue to hit the pause and
[52:27] not just a straight no. I and I agree
[52:30] with you what you're saying, but I still
[52:33] believe it's not the right time right
[52:34] now.
[52:39] » Thank you. Um I'm also the opinion of
[52:42] going to option one and putting this on
[52:44] hiatus. Um we we had stopped uh putting
[52:49] money into it in 2023. The remaining in
[52:52] the budget based on the report the
[52:53] remaining in the budget would be to move
[52:55] forward with the phase one of
[52:57] implementing this and then we would be
[52:59] looking at putting 100 to 300 and then
[53:02] another section said 250 to 350,000 per
[53:05] year um as our budget for the CIP
[53:10] as commented around this table. We have
[53:12] so many things coming up for the budget
[53:14] and to add this now or to even look at
[53:17] adding this right now, I'm not in favor
[53:19] of that. Many things have come forward
[53:22] and I know things can be tweaked, but
[53:23] when we originally started this the
[53:25] whole the whole the CIP program, we
[53:29] originally started with the um seniors
[53:32] housing living styles and we got those
[53:35] which worked out beautiful. And then for
[53:38] the downtown CIP, we saw it be utilized
[53:42] at the beginning and buildings were
[53:44] starting to look great and and I saw the
[53:46] investment going there and it was making
[53:47] our downtown look good. Then it came to
[53:50] the point where it was getting a little
[53:51] frustrating for me to approve, but they
[53:54] were following the rules. It started to
[53:56] look like a cost of doing business,
[53:57] which most businesses should be doing on
[53:59] their own anyways based on what they
[54:01] want to do with their business. Um,
[54:05] the one question that I do have because
[54:07] I am in favor of putting this on hiatus.
[54:09] I don't want to be putting any more
[54:10] money into the CIP, but in regards to
[54:13] the industrial,
[54:16] if there was a potential to have a big
[54:20] player come to our municipality and they
[54:22] were looking for a DC deferral, could
[54:25] that not just come directly to council?
[54:27] Would we have to have a CIP program in
[54:29] place? because that one there is one
[54:32] that I could support because we still we
[54:35] don't lose any money. We get our money
[54:36] in the end, but because the DC charges,
[54:39] we have asked for relief over time and
[54:42] they have been paid back. So, that one,
[54:44] as long as that can still come to
[54:46] council, I'm totally good with just
[54:48] putting the rest of the CIP programs on
[54:50] uh hiatus.
[54:53] » I'll turn it to our CEO to have a
[54:55] comment on that.
[54:57] >> Thanks, your worship. With respect to
[54:58] » Thanks, your worship. With respect to
[54:58] the uh development charge deferrals,
[55:01] council um is entitled to at its
[55:04] discretion entertain those at any time.
[55:06] There does not need to be a CA CIP
[55:08] program in place for that.
[55:12] » Okay. Thank you. I have councelor de and
[55:14] councelorano next.
[55:18] » Thank you mayor. Um Jonathan, thank you
[55:21] so much for that thorough presentation
[55:23] and I am going to lean to option one.
[55:25] And my reason being is um for fairness
[55:29] for all especially the small businesses
[55:32] and the homebased businesses in our
[55:34] community. Often times we see those
[55:36] businesses are being left behind. Um we
[55:40] know that it's very important to you
[55:42] know create opportunities for the
[55:44] agriculture housing and development but
[55:47] at this time I believe to be fair for
[55:49] everyone is to continue pausing it. Also
[55:53] another thing um this is taxpayers money
[55:55] and I believe you want to hear more from
[55:58] those entrepreneurs especially those
[56:00] businesses you know what I mean who are
[56:03] selling application right to help with
[56:05] their businesses to thrive I believe we
[56:07] should open up the um consultation so
[56:10] I'm going to recommend that we open up
[56:12] the consultation for the public to come
[56:14] in right even those aspiring
[56:17] entrepreneurs to hear what are their
[56:19] challenges how can or what can we to how
[56:22] can we improve the CIP program so that
[56:25] their businesses can thrive. So at this
[56:27] time that's what I am definitely
[56:30] recommending and leaning on because we
[56:33] need to know what are their challenges
[56:34] because the CIP program is there to help
[56:37] businesses thrive in our community not
[56:39] to just issue and dash out money right
[56:42] because it is there want to make sure
[56:44] that we're utilizing it fairly and that
[56:47] we are helping businesses to thrive
[56:49] especially the small guys and the
[56:50] homebased businesses. So um that's my
[56:53] two cents. uh mayor, how do I do the
[56:56] recommendation to staff to have a public
[57:00] consultation to connect with those
[57:02] entrepreneurs and those aspired
[57:06] from this um about the CIB program.
[57:11] >> So councelor, I would probably ask uh
[57:13] » So councelor, I would probably ask uh
[57:13] our CEO next week uh to ask for staff
[57:15] report the next council meeting. We'll
[57:16] bring it as a staff report. You can ask
[57:17] for staff report to have that happen and
[57:19] have ecdev go and look at that in the
[57:21] future for staff. So I'd ask our CEO
[57:23] just he'll be on vacation so you can go
[57:25] through our deputy CO and we'll get that
[57:26] as a staff report. You can they'll bring
[57:28] in as a staff report for the next
[57:30] meeting. All right.
[57:32] >> Sorry. Um staff report to recommend a
[57:35] » Sorry. Um staff report to recommend a
[57:35] consultation for the public.
[57:36] >> Yes. Yes. We'll do it through a staff
[57:38] » Yes. Yes. We'll do it through a staff
[57:38] report.
[57:39] >> Awesome. Thank you.
[57:40] » Awesome. Thank you.
[57:40] >> Okay. Thanks.
[57:43] » Councelor Dano next.
[57:47] Thank you. So I I do appreciate all the
[57:51] colleagues comments. Um I I was
[57:53] definitely leaning more towards option
[57:54] one and uh but there is there is
[57:57] something that I want to be mindful of
[57:58] is in this in this economic climate we
[58:00] need to give as many tools as possible
[58:02] to our economic development team. U
[58:04] there's a lot of opportunities even with
[58:07] all this disruption in the uh the
[58:08] economy for people to relocate make make
[58:12] financial decisions with their
[58:13] businesses and whatnot. So, I I do feel
[58:16] that uh putting on a hiatus is the right
[58:18] decision because we're lacking or we're
[58:20] on the verge of having some of those
[58:21] strategies come forward that this would
[58:23] then partner up with. But at this point
[58:26] in time, um you know, I think some
[58:28] people have mentioned it that we've seen
[58:29] some sort of uh especially in the DCIP,
[58:31] we've seen a lot of people use it for
[58:32] leaseold improvements in a way that
[58:35] maybe wasn't the intention, but it still
[58:38] fit within the guidelines. Um so, I I
[58:40] definitely would love a stronger DCIP.
[58:43] um not just for let's call it light
[58:46] restoration. I would love to see pretty
[58:48] significant restoration addition or new
[58:50] construction uh or transformation of the
[58:53] downtown. So I would love to have
[58:55] additional incentiv incentification for
[58:58] the downtown core to do something more
[59:00] than just upgrading a building. I'm
[59:02] talking take the building down or
[59:04] preserve the heritage of the facade and
[59:06] and reconstruct something that maybe is
[59:08] um you know a multi-use development type
[59:10] project. That's where I see the DCIP
[59:12] really going. Um, in add uh one of the
[59:16] other concerns I have is and and uh you
[59:18] you kind of took my question there which
[59:20] was the in the in the industrial zones
[59:22] if people are going to come to the
[59:23] industrial zones and we have a
[59:24] significant business that comes there.
[59:26] Yeah, absolutely. We need to look at it.
[59:28] What I'm concerned with is that with all
[59:31] the industrial autom um you know it's
[59:33] the automation that's taking place. A
[59:35] lot of this is massive massive buildings
[59:38] with very little amount of employees in
[59:40] there. So yeah, we might get a little
[59:42] bit of that, you know, the tax
[59:43] incentives from having those types of
[59:44] businesses here, but really those types
[59:46] of businesses don't drive tons of
[59:47] economic growth to our actual
[59:49] businesses. They're not going out for
[59:50] lunches. They're not shopping locally.
[59:52] there's, you know, a handful of
[59:54] employees working in a massive massive
[59:55] factory and warehouse. And it's a lot of
[59:57] boxes and and shipping logistics moving
[59:59] in and out. So, I'd like to see, you
[1:00:01] know, um a lot more consideration for
[1:00:03] other types of um businesses in the
[1:00:05] industrial area off the 400, which I
[1:00:07] think that there's a lot of people
[1:00:08] looking around, which is really good.
[1:00:10] And we're definitely motivated to work
[1:00:11] with those types of businesses. The last
[1:00:13] thing I want to say is uh when it comes
[1:00:15] to housing, one of the concerns that I
[1:00:17] have is a lot of people are taking
[1:00:18] Bradford and and coming up here and
[1:00:20] carving up homes and turning it into a
[1:00:22] uh a nice little uh program for them to
[1:00:24] uh you know, run multiple uh little
[1:00:26] residents out of it and and earn income.
[1:00:28] So, if if it does come down to some
[1:00:30] types of housing, again, it needs to be
[1:00:32] with the strategy. We need to identify
[1:00:33] what type of housing that we're
[1:00:34] interested in doing, how we're going to
[1:00:36] fund it, if we are going to fund it. But
[1:00:38] I'm not interested in making a bunch of
[1:00:40] people, you know, landlords. That's not
[1:00:42] that's not my goal. My goal is to to
[1:00:44] transform the downtown area. And I think
[1:00:46] that that's really important. So
[1:00:48] ultimately, yeah, I support the council
[1:00:50] with with going on a hiatus, but I I
[1:00:52] think or continuing the hiatus, but I
[1:00:53] think we really need to shape this and
[1:00:55] give the tools to our economic
[1:00:56] development team as quickly as possible
[1:00:58] so we can maximize the markets right
[1:01:00] now. I think there's a lot of
[1:01:01] opportunity even with all the disruption
[1:01:03] to really reach out and have people
[1:01:04] reach out. So, it's a it's a little bit
[1:01:07] of a shame that we can't, you know,
[1:01:08] continue with something at this point,
[1:01:10] but I I think we need those tools in our
[1:01:12] toolbox. And maybe you can address some
[1:01:14] of that.
[1:01:15] >> Just through you, Mr. Mayor. I was just
[1:01:17] » Just through you, Mr. Mayor. I was just
[1:01:17] going to say, yeah, you know, whether
[1:01:18] it's on a hiatus or you operate it, but
[1:01:21] you choose not to fund the programs at
[1:01:23] six or one, half of the other, half
[1:01:25] dozen or the other, it is still there to
[1:01:28] be used. So, if you did have a big
[1:01:30] opportunity that comes in and you did
[1:01:32] the homework on what the balance of of
[1:01:35] benefit is, whether it's employment or
[1:01:38] just square footage and taxes paid, you
[1:01:42] could turn the CIP back on very quickly.
[1:01:45] Um, I don't think unless you made major
[1:01:47] changes, you would have to go back
[1:01:49] through public process, but that would
[1:01:51] be your choice. But even if you did, you
[1:01:53] could expedite that.
[1:01:58] C Scott next.
[1:02:00] >> Thank you for the presentation and the
[1:02:02] » Thank you for the presentation and the
[1:02:02] work that went into it.
[1:02:04] I want to make a few comments uh and try
[1:02:07] and pick up on some of what was said
[1:02:09] because I I I agree with a lot of it.
[1:02:12] uh council fari talked about
[1:02:15] over time the downtown CIP started to
[1:02:18] look like the cost of doing business and
[1:02:21] one of the things that I think we
[1:02:23] recognize is there's the cost of doing
[1:02:25] business on the municipality as well and
[1:02:28] what I mean by that is when I worked in
[1:02:30] the premier's office and we were putting
[1:02:32] major grants to attract big employers
[1:02:34] you were looking for the municipality or
[1:02:36] the region to match it to help
[1:02:38] incentivize so we could compete with
[1:02:40] upper New York state Ohio, what have
[1:02:42] you. And uh we've seen some major
[1:02:45] employers come to town, renovate uh in
[1:02:48] my ward, in the industrial area, and
[1:02:50] elsewhere in town, and we've secured
[1:02:52] those local jobs. But it's become this
[1:02:55] sort of arms race of everyone's doing
[1:02:57] it, so everyone has to do it, and we're
[1:02:59] here to have value for our taxpayers
[1:03:02] money. And in the past, councelor
[1:03:03] Gordano has talked about, and I think
[1:03:05] you referenced it tonight as well, the
[1:03:06] downtown has to be big enough to be
[1:03:09] meaningful. uh when it first started we
[1:03:12] saw a lot of facade improvements and it
[1:03:15] looked like it had momentum. We've seen
[1:03:17] much more leaseold improvements lately.
[1:03:20] So I think we need a program to provide
[1:03:24] grants as an economic development tool
[1:03:26] so that we can be attracting business to
[1:03:28] town. My frustration is I don't know how
[1:03:31] that fits into a budget. With the strong
[1:03:34] mayor budget, we have a presumed 3%
[1:03:37] increase pursuant to a mayoral direction
[1:03:40] to do that without understanding what
[1:03:42] the needs are from the department heads.
[1:03:44] So I have no idea where a $300,000
[1:03:47] economic development line item fits into
[1:03:50] a budget designed to meet a political
[1:03:52] percentage target. So that's a
[1:03:54] frustration that I have sitting here
[1:03:56] today four or five months in advance of
[1:03:59] our budget coming to council because
[1:04:02] it's being reverse engineered to hit a
[1:04:04] political target rather than to identify
[1:04:05] the needs. I think keeping the project
[1:04:09] on hiatus is the only responsible thing
[1:04:11] to do in that context, not knowing how
[1:04:13] the budget's going to turn out. But I
[1:04:15] don't like the second half of that
[1:04:18] recommendation that says no further
[1:04:19] action will be taken. I'd actually like
[1:04:21] you to put together a thorough
[1:04:25] plan that addresses industrial downtown
[1:04:28] bond head and diversification of
[1:04:30] agriculture. Agriculture remains our
[1:04:32] number one job base. And so I'd want to
[1:04:35] have a CIP program continue to be
[1:04:38] developed perhaps for next term to
[1:04:40] review that looks at how can we actually
[1:04:43] do this in a meaningful way that
[1:04:45] addresses our key economic drivers,
[1:04:48] other public policy goals like downtown
[1:04:49] revitalization, energy efficiency,
[1:04:52] heritage preservation, affordable
[1:04:54] housing. But I need to see that complete
[1:04:56] picture because you said earlier, Mr.
[1:04:58] Hack, you're prioritizing industrial,
[1:05:01] not agriculture. I might make the
[1:05:02] opposite choice depending on the needs,
[1:05:04] depending on how the economy is shaping
[1:05:06] out. But ultimately, sitting here today,
[1:05:10] keeping it on hiatus, but continuing to
[1:05:12] do the homework, that's how I feel I
[1:05:14] have to vote tonight, not knowing how
[1:05:16] this budget process is going to unfold
[1:05:18] the way it's been set up.
[1:05:22] » Okay, I'll get back to you. Uh, okay.
[1:05:25] Yeah, you just seconded, so I'll let you
[1:05:27] go first.
[1:05:30] Yeah, I uh I'd actually like to see the
[1:05:34] CIP program dropped because I just think
[1:05:37] it's it's putting too much time on our
[1:05:39] staff. I'd rather see our ectdom
[1:05:42] economic development actually go and
[1:05:46] further enhance the concert program and
[1:05:48] attract business and market our town and
[1:05:50] do those things and stop doing all these
[1:05:54] studies about CIPs and all this stuff.
[1:05:57] If we need to do an improvement or if we
[1:06:00] need to do an incentive for for for a
[1:06:03] company to come here for growth, we can
[1:06:06] look at that on a one oneonone basis. Um
[1:06:11] but to just continuously if we see a
[1:06:13] real need like with the downtown core
[1:06:16] the the improvements there was a
[1:06:18] definite need when we had seniors
[1:06:20] housing a definite need we created a CIP
[1:06:23] program for it but I don't see the need
[1:06:25] right now for a CIP program but I'm
[1:06:29] going to I seconded option one and let's
[1:06:31] just keep it on hold.
[1:06:34] So, Mr. You want to comment on the uh
[1:06:36] investment opportunity like the oneonone
[1:06:38] investment option. You want to comment
[1:06:39] on that? I I think
[1:06:41] >> No, no. What councelor Kite just said he
[1:06:43] » No, no. What councelor Kite just said he
[1:06:43] would like to put the he said we can
[1:06:45] look at it on oneonone basis where we
[1:06:47] can incentify. I I assume that's against
[1:06:49] original.
[1:06:50] >> I can't speak to the issue of staff time
[1:06:51] » I can't speak to the issue of staff time
[1:06:52] and how it's being used elsewhere. But
[1:06:53] just thinking at face value that that
[1:06:55] you know it's always at a premium and
[1:06:57] you want to use staff effectively what
[1:06:59] you have currently is you have two cip
[1:07:02] downtown cip and an industrial cip which
[1:07:05] are both they're in existence right and
[1:07:08] so you can you have not chosen to end
[1:07:10] them you've chosen to leave them on
[1:07:12] hiatus. Um I I'll say again my only
[1:07:16] comment if if budget issues are are uh
[1:07:19] are going to be you know they're
[1:07:21] uncertain at this time is that on the
[1:07:23] industrial side if you rested on the tax
[1:07:26] increment grant as an option you could
[1:07:28] leave that one as open because that is a
[1:07:30] tax increment grant no other funding
[1:07:32] from a CIP reserve would be required. So
[1:07:35] in theory uh it would remain budgeted
[1:07:38] only if an application were to come
[1:07:40] forward to get development and and then
[1:07:43] approved and then impact reassesses it.
[1:07:46] So it could be several years down the
[1:07:48] road. That's a that's a matter for
[1:07:51] senior management to determine what the
[1:07:52] fiscal impact would be on that because
[1:07:54] as I said it's not nothing. But that's
[1:07:57] one way you could do it. But I think the
[1:07:59] um uh the fact is that you if you put
[1:08:03] the plans on hiatus, they still exist as
[1:08:05] plans and so you can choose to bring
[1:08:08] them back um at your uh at your
[1:08:11] discretion
[1:08:13] >> or develop them I should say.
[1:08:15] » or develop them I should say.
[1:08:15] >> Thanks. So I just wanted to say you know
[1:08:16] » Thanks. So I just wanted to say you know
[1:08:16] thank you very much for the
[1:08:17] presentation. Uh great work and to our
[1:08:20] staff the economic don office great work
[1:08:22] on the CIPs. I I wanted to listen to
[1:08:24] council first before I I put my comments
[1:08:26] out there. And I I still think the CIP's
[1:08:28] did a great job, especially the
[1:08:29] industrial CIP. It actually reaped about
[1:08:32] $200 million worth of growth within our
[1:08:34] community when it comes to what we did
[1:08:36] in in the on reagents and other areas
[1:08:38] within our community. So to me, the
[1:08:40] industrial CIP is is a is a real tool
[1:08:42] that can help our our existing business.
[1:08:45] And I and I would certainly love to see
[1:08:47] that carry on with a tax grant. So a TIG
[1:08:51] do a tax increment grant system uh where
[1:08:53] it doesn't really hit our budget.
[1:08:54] There's no budget implication at that
[1:08:56] point in time. It allows us to offer it
[1:08:58] up to our existing business in our
[1:09:00] community. So it keeps that program
[1:09:01] alive and it keeps it in the toolbox so
[1:09:03] that when we have businesses call us and
[1:09:06] let's say you know a lot of business and
[1:09:08] we lost DSV the 1.3 million square foot
[1:09:11] building. We lost DSV. They went to
[1:09:13] Inisville. They were looking here and
[1:09:14] they didn't come here. I don't know if
[1:09:16] they communicated with our staff or not
[1:09:17] but that's where I want them to pick up
[1:09:18] the phone. I want them to pick up our
[1:09:19] phone and and ask what is this? What is
[1:09:22] the CIP? What does this do for our
[1:09:24] business? How does this help us? That's
[1:09:25] where we get the conversation. When they
[1:09:27] go on our website, they look at our
[1:09:28] economic development website and they
[1:09:29] they search that site. If they don't
[1:09:30] reach out to us, we actually don't know
[1:09:32] they were here. So, having something in
[1:09:34] the toolbox makes them hopefully pick up
[1:09:36] the phone and call us and say, you know,
[1:09:38] what is that? What can we do here? Can
[1:09:40] we can we invest in Bradford or not? Is
[1:09:41] it worth it? So, it just gives us a
[1:09:43] chance to do that. And so option two
[1:09:45] would have been straightforward that
[1:09:46] it's the the industrial CIP that I would
[1:09:49] love to see move forward with a tax
[1:09:51] grant only. So move the tax grant there.
[1:09:54] You know, the deferred DCs, we can do
[1:09:55] that anytime we want. That's a council
[1:09:56] initiative. We can do that anytime we
[1:09:58] want. But that's what I would love to
[1:10:00] see. Uh I understand, I agree with
[1:10:01] council. Uh the the downtown uh CIP, I
[1:10:04] would say put it on hiatus. Leave it
[1:10:06] there. Other CIPs, this talks about
[1:10:08] bringing future options. We will have
[1:10:10] that budget discussion coming soon.
[1:10:11] There's nothing surprising about the
[1:10:13] budget. It's been done this way for the
[1:10:14] whole term. It uh it was a director for
[1:10:17] me that gave a 3.5% average increase
[1:10:20] across our term here. So, it's average.
[1:10:22] That's what our average is going to be,
[1:10:23] our tax increase over the three uh the
[1:10:25] four years that we're here at council.
[1:10:27] So, it's nothing surprising. Uh staff
[1:10:29] are building that budget. I have been
[1:10:30] given that responsibility by the
[1:10:32] province and I uh gave that directive
[1:10:34] and that's it. And it's up to council.
[1:10:36] It's your budget. You do what you want
[1:10:38] with it. You want tax to go up, you do
[1:10:39] that. You want tax go down, you do that.
[1:10:42] But it's your budget. you'll work
[1:10:43] through it and you'll have that
[1:10:44] opportunity to do that. I'm just giving
[1:10:45] a directive, setting it in motion and
[1:10:48] staff will build that budget and they'll
[1:10:49] come back and then it'll be up to you
[1:10:51] folks to see what you want to do with
[1:10:52] that budget. If you'd like the number,
[1:10:53] you stay with it. If you don't like the
[1:10:54] number, move on. But that's got nothing
[1:10:57] to do with option two. We don't need to
[1:10:58] build in budget because it's a tax
[1:11:00] grant. So, it doesn't impact us at this
[1:11:02] point in time. So, we would move that
[1:11:04] and then the rest of this would come
[1:11:05] through in phase two and four back in 26
[1:11:08] 27 when we know more about it. So, I'll
[1:11:10] go back to to council members. Councelor
[1:11:12] Scott and I got Councelor Harper.
[1:11:14] >> Yeah, just just to do a little bit of
[1:11:17] » Yeah, just just to do a little bit of
[1:11:17] correction there. Uh strong mayor powers
[1:11:19] were introduced in the second year of
[1:11:20] our term and staff are building a
[1:11:22] budget, as I said, against a political
[1:11:24] target without knowing the full needs.
[1:11:26] That's not something I really care to
[1:11:28] dispute. It's just the facts of the
[1:11:29] situation. So staff aren't building a
[1:11:32] budget in isolation. They're building a
[1:11:34] budget against an arbitrary political
[1:11:35] target of what one individual member of
[1:11:38] council has determined he wants the tax
[1:11:40] increase to be. Tax increase hopefully
[1:11:42] will be less than that. All that being
[1:11:44] said, I appreciate what you said about
[1:11:46] the tax increment grant and understood
[1:11:48] the point that it doesn't hit the budget
[1:11:51] as much as the recommendation for the
[1:11:53] 300,000 or x00,000 that you suggested.
[1:11:55] It still has an impact and I'm not
[1:11:59] prepared to make a decision tonight in
[1:12:02] the context of a budget that as the
[1:12:05] mayor just said, council can increase it
[1:12:06] or council can decrease it. We haven't
[1:12:08] seen it yet and staff are telling us
[1:12:10] what their needs are within a context
[1:12:14] that puts uh the cart before the horse.
[1:12:17] So, as much as I'd like to see tools in
[1:12:20] the toolbox for economic development, I
[1:12:22] think I need to see it, as I mentioned
[1:12:23] earlier, in a holistic way so that I can
[1:12:26] make a decision. And I I'll say it again
[1:12:28] because I think councelor Jordano has
[1:12:29] been right about this. It's got to be
[1:12:31] big enough to be meaningful. And a
[1:12:34] little bit of money here and there, I
[1:12:36] think stopped being meaningful over the
[1:12:38] past three or four years.
[1:12:41] Our
[1:12:43] biggest uh industrial application was
[1:12:45] for med relief at that time and it was
[1:12:47] $98 million and they brought in 300 jobs
[1:12:51] and we paid $98,000.
[1:12:53] So it's good. I I'm chairing the
[1:12:56] meeting. I'm just talking about
[1:12:57] opportunities out there. So just letting
[1:12:59] it go. Uh councelor Harper.
[1:13:03] Thank you mayor. Um, in hopes of
[1:13:05] collaboration and clarity, I'm going to
[1:13:08] use uh council fari's tactic here in
[1:13:11] regards to this question. The tax
[1:13:13] incentive for industrial um CIP or
[1:13:17] industrial businesses that like to come
[1:13:19] here, could they not be come to us on a
[1:13:22] onetoone basis as well? And that may be
[1:13:24] a question for the CEO to answer. help
[1:13:26] us me clarify that so that way it seems
[1:13:29] like we're want to put it on hiatus but
[1:13:31] we don't want to we want to have the
[1:13:33] tools in the box. Could that not come to
[1:13:35] us on a onetoone and a you know
[1:13:39] discretionary
[1:13:41] utilization for ECDEV to negotiate with
[1:13:44] industries that would like to come to
[1:13:46] our town and then they have that to be
[1:13:48] like well we could bring that to council
[1:13:50] and you know offer that tax incentive if
[1:13:53] you say it doesn't hit the tax bracket
[1:13:54] why do we need a CIP for that so I'd
[1:13:57] like to ask that question
[1:14:01] » thanks your worship
[1:14:03] uh In Ontario, municipalities are
[1:14:06] prohibited from providing financial
[1:14:08] incentives to any commercial or
[1:14:11] profitable enterprise in an effort to u
[1:14:15] either support them or entice them to to
[1:14:17] come to municipality with a few
[1:14:19] exceptions. One of those exceptions is a
[1:14:21] community improvement program or plan
[1:14:23] that sets out the the parameters under
[1:14:27] which the the assistance would be
[1:14:29] provided uh is prepared within a public
[1:14:31] forum and is available to any applicant
[1:14:35] to apply and and um explain how they
[1:14:38] would meet those criteria. So when Mr.
[1:14:40] hack talks about um keeping our CIP
[1:14:45] in a um
[1:14:48] uh
[1:14:50] dormant state um and activating at some
[1:14:54] point in the future if the need arises.
[1:14:56] Um in in my view
[1:14:59] those conditions would be um there's a
[1:15:03] um some demand from a number of parties
[1:15:05] that that are of interest to council.
[1:15:07] you would open it up for a period of
[1:15:11] time not just to deal with that
[1:15:12] individual company because that is kind
[1:15:15] of circumventing the rules of province
[1:15:17] it out for us um and then entertain any
[1:15:20] applications within that time frame um
[1:15:23] to receive the assistance so it's it's
[1:15:25] not a onetoone thing it'd be creating
[1:15:27] another period of time that the CIP
[1:15:30] program would be alive
[1:15:34] » okay answer your
[1:15:37] comment. Okay, go ahead.
[1:15:40] >> Uh thank you uh thank you mayor and uh
[1:15:45] » Uh thank you uh thank you mayor and uh
[1:15:45] CEO for those comments and uh
[1:15:47] recollection of the process. There's a
[1:15:49] lot of procedures that uh are easily
[1:15:52] weighed upon or or or forgotten. But um
[1:15:55] I remember hearing that now a couple
[1:15:57] years ago when I asked that question and
[1:15:59] it's great to recall that and I'm glad I
[1:16:01] asked it for for clarification.
[1:16:04] Um, it definitely makes things a little
[1:16:06] bit more tricky in regards to the
[1:16:09] guidelines and the in regards to the
[1:16:11] actual
[1:16:13] uh restrictions municipalities have in
[1:16:15] regards to um attracting certain types
[1:16:18] of businesses. So, u I'm going to have
[1:16:21] to leave my comments there and maybe
[1:16:23] weigh in, but it's definitely giving me
[1:16:25] a ponder to think about right now for a
[1:16:27] decision.
[1:16:29] >> Thank you for the comments. I've got
[1:16:30] » Thank you for the comments. I've got
[1:16:30] councelor Jordano.
[1:16:32] That'll be quick so we can move on to
[1:16:34] the vote. Um, so yeah, when I was
[1:16:36] talking earlier about the tools in the
[1:16:38] toolbox, and I think the mayor kind of
[1:16:39] alluded to that, CEO's comments about
[1:16:42] that we can't just open it for one, we
[1:16:44] have to open it to review. Um, my
[1:16:46] question is, can we have it on our
[1:16:49] website saying that the CIP is currently
[1:16:52] accepting applications for consideration
[1:16:55] and in future budgets like the one that
[1:16:58] will be coming up, we can decide and
[1:17:00] allocate if at that point at the budget
[1:17:03] we see a need to add some funds to that
[1:17:05] or vice versa, maybe we have a quarterly
[1:17:07] opportunity to revisit the CIP.
[1:17:10] Therefore signaling to the business
[1:17:12] community we are actively looking at
[1:17:14] this but we're welcoming your
[1:17:17] applications in the meantime
[1:17:21] » if I can I think thank you for to your
[1:17:23] worship um I certainly appreciate the
[1:17:26] comment I think in in all respects you
[1:17:28] have to act in good faith um and so if
[1:17:32] it's on hiatus or whether it's
[1:17:34] operational but unfunded it's it's it's
[1:17:37] the rose by another name it is that's
[1:17:39] what it is you not be able to distribute
[1:17:41] funds. Um I think we all have to
[1:17:44] remember that the C the provision of
[1:17:47] public funds through a CIP is entirely
[1:17:50] discretionary. You can set out rules.
[1:17:53] You can judge applicants based on that,
[1:17:56] but there's no entitlement here. So you
[1:17:59] have the ability to to moderate, but
[1:18:02] again you have to act in good faith. you
[1:18:04] can't draw people in and then then you
[1:18:06] know when it's clearly a good
[1:18:09] opportunity meets all the rules you have
[1:18:10] to act in good faith so I think it comes
[1:18:12] back to you know if it's on hiatus it's
[1:18:15] on hiatus that's the approach
[1:18:19] so my thoughts on that is that if we
[1:18:21] open up the the IIA and we we you know
[1:18:23] had parameters that talked about job
[1:18:26] jobs of a specific number square footage
[1:18:29] I mean we do allow ourselves to get
[1:18:31] calls and get those get those questions
[1:18:34] and the issue is that it does come to
[1:18:35] council and we have the ability then to
[1:18:37] make that decision when we want to and
[1:18:39] if it means that we have to actually add
[1:18:41] something into the CIP to fund that
[1:18:44] project because it is of great value to
[1:18:46] our community we have the right and at
[1:18:48] time to do that we can do that at that
[1:18:50] time to fund that in the budget so to me
[1:18:52] leaving uh you know leaving the IIA open
[1:18:55] is uh critical I think it's something
[1:18:56] that we shouldn't be uh shutting down
[1:18:59] because uh we have the right as a
[1:19:01] council to make those decisions in the
[1:19:02] end so to to me. Uh it's important
[1:19:04] because this is about job creation and
[1:19:06] I've seen it work in our industrial
[1:19:08] program already on reagents and in our
[1:19:11] community and it has valued over $200
[1:19:14] million in in money and it you know one
[1:19:17] facility created 300 jobs. So there is
[1:19:20] an opportunity for us to benefit from
[1:19:21] that. So that's where I'm at with option
[1:19:23] two. Council Harper.
[1:19:27] Thank you mayor. I think we're I don't
[1:19:29] we don't want to actually, you know, cut
[1:19:32] off the circulation regards to some of
[1:19:34] this. I would be open to option one with
[1:19:36] an amendment that all the other plans to
[1:19:38] go on hiatus except the IIA, but to come
[1:19:41] back to us in regards to what that looks
[1:19:43] like on the IIA. I don't agree with the
[1:19:45] rest of option two. Um, but definitely
[1:19:49] having that on there and seeing the
[1:19:50] restrictions that uh face our
[1:19:52] municipality, I would not want a
[1:19:55] business to overlook us because of an
[1:19:57] oversight like this. And I think if we
[1:19:59] leave it open there, funded or not, we
[1:20:01] still say that we do have an IIA CIP.
[1:20:04] Um, and that could be a beneficial thing
[1:20:06] for us. Who knows what comes in the
[1:20:09] door. So I would like to add um an
[1:20:12] amendment friendly amendment to the to
[1:20:14] my my colleagues initial option one that
[1:20:17] we add um the IAIP
[1:20:22] stay up.
[1:20:24] >> No, there's other stuff there. So
[1:20:27] » No, there's other stuff there. So
[1:20:27] So I was just councilor Harper, if you
[1:20:30] want to make an amendment, we can. And I
[1:20:31] was just going to suggest that if you're
[1:20:33] okay with that option that we you take
[1:20:34] option two that council approves a
[1:20:36] proceeding of phase one implementation
[1:20:38] industrial human improvement plan IIA as
[1:20:40] outlined in the report and that staff
[1:20:41] bey utilize the existing CIP reserve at
[1:20:44] phase one implementation and that the
[1:20:46] rest of the CIPs stay on an hiatus. So
[1:20:49] it's the same thing kind of we're just
[1:20:50] juggling it around and we're getting rid
[1:20:52] of two and four. you you're not, you
[1:20:53] know, you're not liking to enforce it,
[1:20:55] remove that and just put the downtown
[1:20:57] CIP uh on hiatus and the seniors housing
[1:21:00] on hiatus. Keep them there and just do
[1:21:02] the IIA for the IIA one. And we have
[1:21:06] 65,000 that is in that budget already.
[1:21:08] It's not we're not asking to add more
[1:21:09] right now. We're just saying use that
[1:21:11] money. If something comes along and we
[1:21:12] can as council endorse it, we endorse it
[1:21:15] and we'll the program will come back
[1:21:16] with the identified TIG and things like
[1:21:18] that for for that. Yeah, please. I'm
[1:21:22] okay with the way you put that um in
[1:21:24] regards to this before we move to the
[1:21:26] phase one of implementation and I know
[1:21:29] um sir you were talking about whenever
[1:21:32] we give you a go- ahead you would come
[1:21:33] back to us with certain elements of what
[1:21:35] that looks like was that what we we
[1:21:37] would come back to us then we would see
[1:21:39] what option or phase one looks like
[1:21:41] before we even move forward then
[1:21:44] >> you Mr. No, I'll just confirm exactly
[1:21:46] » you Mr. No, I'll just confirm exactly
[1:21:46] that. Yeah. So, so phase one final slide
[1:21:50] we had uh phase one Q3. So, September
[1:21:54] onwards of this year into the end of the
[1:21:56] year, draft the AICP programs. So, as I
[1:22:01] said, and this is just for food for
[1:22:03] thought again, if you were to maintain
[1:22:04] the option of having an open industrial
[1:22:08] area CIP,
[1:22:10] uh, with a tax increment grant there for
[1:22:13] discretionary use, then then that's the
[1:22:16] program that gets written.
[1:22:18] So, mayor that I I have to basically um
[1:22:21] bow to the first option that that was
[1:22:24] given to uh my colleague here to see
[1:22:26] whether he wishes to resend or and then
[1:22:29] make changes or wishes to proceed. So,
[1:22:31] up to you to proceed.
[1:22:33] >> Okay, I'll go back. I've got councelor
[1:22:34] » Okay, I'll go back. I've got councelor
[1:22:34] Henny first and then I'll go back to the
[1:22:36] asking about what we want to do options.
[1:22:38] Councelor Dehaney,
[1:22:44] you're muted. that councelor.
[1:22:48] >> Thank you. So, I am not going to support
[1:22:50] » Thank you. So, I am not going to support
[1:22:50] the amendment. I'm going to stick with
[1:22:52] option one. Um, is you know, we're going
[1:22:55] to support all or we're not going to
[1:22:56] support them. We have to be fair. We
[1:22:58] cannot pick and choose who we're going
[1:23:00] to support or who we're going to um open
[1:23:03] the door to. I think it is we're not
[1:23:06] canceling the CIP. We're just pausing it
[1:23:08] for a bit. And nothing is wrong with
[1:23:10] understanding that. I think we need to
[1:23:12] make meaningful discuss this decision
[1:23:15] and not polit and don't be too political
[1:23:17] driven with our decision right and
[1:23:21] majority of us already see option one I
[1:23:23] really don't see why I understand that
[1:23:25] having healthy dialogue is very
[1:23:26] important but I don't see why we should
[1:23:29] be going around and around and around
[1:23:30] until we please you know people and come
[1:23:34] up with an answer confusing the whole
[1:23:36] body of everyone right majority of
[1:23:38] person said option one let us pause it
[1:23:40] for a And I think it's very manipulative
[1:23:43] for us to be continuing this way and
[1:23:45] leading into these decision you know
[1:23:48] which you know persons now maybe double
[1:23:50] thinking it's only fair if we're not
[1:23:53] going to be fair to everyone I don't
[1:23:55] think we should pick and choose who
[1:23:57] we're going to open it to option one was
[1:24:00] on the table and I believe I will
[1:24:03] definitely continue supporting option
[1:24:05] one until we go to budget and if there's
[1:24:07] any extras or you know seeing ways that
[1:24:10] we can open up the program to more right
[1:24:13] that was on the table then we do so but
[1:24:15] nothing is wrong with saying pause for a
[1:24:16] bit and respect that and move on to the
[1:24:19] next agenda
[1:24:22] okay thank you for those comments okay I
[1:24:26] do have uh option one on the floor so
[1:24:28] wondered if uh I've got my mover was
[1:24:31] councelor Dyke and councelor
[1:24:32] >> Vike call for a vote
[1:24:35] » Vike call for a vote
[1:24:35] >> you're going to call for a vote okay
[1:24:41] and look at the amendments. I think it's
[1:24:43] a vote.
[1:24:44] >> So, the mover doesn't want to move it
[1:24:45] » So, the mover doesn't want to move it
[1:24:45] anymore. Okay. So, I'm going to opt uh
[1:24:48] put another Who would like to move
[1:24:50] option two? As stated, we remove the
[1:24:52] staff report back, you know, get rid of
[1:24:54] options two and four.
[1:24:59] » He he can.
[1:25:00] >> Madam clerk, can he can he pull his uh
[1:25:02] » Madam clerk, can he can he pull his uh
[1:25:02] >> debating?
[1:25:06] Give her a moment to look that up, but
[1:25:09] that we could go to the feet vote. Yeah,
[1:25:10] we could uh we'll just see if he can
[1:25:17] » you worship while we're waiting for the
[1:25:19] clerk. If the mover has rescended, I'm
[1:25:22] prepared to move that and if I still
[1:25:25] have the sec second or unless clerk
[1:25:27] tells us otherwise, I I still agree with
[1:25:30] option one.
[1:25:33] Okay, we'll just wait and see.
[1:25:39] I can move option one if you don't have
[1:25:41] a mover.
[1:25:42] >> We have a few of them apparently.
[1:25:45] » We have a few of them apparently.
[1:25:45] >> Thank you.
[1:25:55] Okay. With with respect to the um motion
[1:25:58] being withdrawn. So, a motion that has
[1:26:00] been duly seconded may be drawn subject
[1:26:02] to um the consent of councel.
[1:26:08] Um if no member objects to the
[1:26:10] withdrawal of the motion, the motion
[1:26:12] shall be considered withdrawn. If a
[1:26:14] member objects to the withdrawal of a
[1:26:15] motion, the withdrawal a withdrawal
[1:26:17] motion shall be entertained. And if such
[1:26:19] motion receives a seconder, it shall be
[1:26:21] decided prior to consideration of any
[1:26:22] other motion.
[1:26:24] And if a motion is withdrawn, the effect
[1:26:26] is the same as if had never been made.
[1:26:29] So, we would need the
[1:26:31] consent of council.
[1:26:33] >> It's okay. So, we need So, I I I I'm
[1:26:35] » It's okay. So, we need So, I I I I'm
[1:26:35] sure council has will want to hear the
[1:26:37] motion because I've had a few say they
[1:26:39] want to second it again or move it. So,
[1:26:41] we have a motion on the floor. Option
[1:26:42] one, moved by councelor Dy, seconded by
[1:26:45] councelor We'll vote on option one
[1:26:48] uh to see that's what we'll vote on. And
[1:26:50] if that passes, if not, we move on and
[1:26:52] we we bring up another option. So, okay.
[1:26:54] So, all in favor of option one,
[1:26:57] one, two, three.
[1:26:59] >> Mayor, one second. Just a second,
[1:27:01] » Mayor, one second. Just a second,
[1:27:01] please. Cuz I want to make sure that I
[1:27:03] know what I'm voting on cuz there has
[1:27:04] been a lot of changes in between. Are we
[1:27:07] voting on option one as original without
[1:27:09] any amendment, without any motion? So, I
[1:27:13] want to make sure that I am voting on
[1:27:14] what was presented initially without all
[1:27:17] these chaos and stuff before it started.
[1:27:20] So can you please read what we are voted
[1:27:23] on please and thank you.
[1:27:25] >> Option one that the community
[1:27:26] » Option one that the community
[1:27:26] improvement uh plan programs remain on
[1:27:29] hiatus and no further action be taken at
[1:27:31] this time.
[1:27:33] >> Okay, perfect. I am voting for that.
[1:28:02] vote.
[1:28:21] » We're ready.
[1:28:21] >> Yeah, I'm ready. We're ready.
[1:28:24] Okay. For a recorded vote for um option
[1:28:28] one for the CIP program
[1:28:33] yes in support and no in opposition.
[1:28:35] We'll start with councelor Harper.
[1:28:39] To clarify is to put it on hiatus and I
[1:28:42] say no.
[1:28:52] Sorry. You're looking to clarify the the
[1:28:53] motion.
[1:28:55] >> Yeah. You said it was to keep this CIP
[1:28:58] » Yeah. You said it was to keep this CIP
[1:28:58] and put a You didn't mention that it was
[1:29:00] to put it on hiatus.
[1:29:04] » Let me put the motion on the screen so
[1:29:05] everybody has it in front of them.
[1:29:43] Okay. So, for a recorded vote for the
[1:29:44] motion that's in front of council,
[1:29:47] do you want do you want me to read the
[1:29:49] motion?
[1:29:50] >> Yeah, please read it out for everybody.
[1:29:52] » Yeah, please read it out for everybody.
[1:29:52] that report EDO 2025-3 titled 2026
[1:29:56] community improvement plan CIP program
[1:29:58] options be received and that council
[1:30:00] endorses a community improvement plan
[1:30:01] comprehensive update report prepared by
[1:30:03] CR Planning and Management and that
[1:30:06] council approve proceeding with the IAIP
[1:30:09] the community improvement plan programs
[1:30:11] remain on hiatus and no further action
[1:30:13] be taken at this time.
[1:30:18] » Yes, sir. You you it's option one. It's
[1:30:20] just option one. the community
[1:30:21] improvement program uh improvement plan
[1:30:24] program remains on hiatus and no further
[1:30:26] action be taken at this time. So we
[1:30:27] didn't actually put um the IAIP in
[1:30:31] there.
[1:30:32] >> That's just straightforward option one.
[1:30:34] » That's just straightforward option one.
[1:30:34] They all say once
[1:30:45] she's just going to put on screen again.
[1:30:46] It's she's going to rewrite it. It's the
[1:30:48] original motion. It's going the original
[1:30:49] motion option one. It's on hiatus all.
[1:30:54] Go ahead. Ask.
[1:31:20] There we are. That's good.
[1:31:23] Okay.
[1:31:23] >> Apologies. Is that correct?
[1:31:25] » Apologies. Is that correct?
[1:31:25] >> Yeah, that's correct. Thank you.
[1:31:28] » Yeah, that's correct. Thank you.
[1:31:28] >> Okay, everybody reads it. We read again
[1:31:30] » Okay, everybody reads it. We read again
[1:31:30] or we're okay.
[1:31:32] >> Okay. So, go ahead.
[1:31:33] » Okay. So, go ahead.
[1:31:33] >> And now I will call the recorded vote
[1:31:34] » And now I will call the recorded vote
[1:31:34] starting with councelor Harper. Um,
[1:31:37] state yes in support and no in
[1:31:38] opposition, please.
[1:31:42] » Uh, no. Thank you. Councelor
[1:31:47] Dehaney.
[1:31:52] » Yes. I support option one that the
[1:31:53] community improvement plan program
[1:31:56] remain an iatus and move further action
[1:31:58] be taken at this time.
[1:32:01] >> Councelor Dying.
[1:32:04] » Councelor Dying.
[1:32:04] >> Councelor Farerini.
[1:32:05] » Councelor Farerini.
[1:32:06] >> Yes.
[1:32:06] » Yes.
[1:32:06] >> Councelor Geodeno.
[1:32:08] » Councelor Geodeno.
[1:32:08] >> Yes.
[1:32:09] » Yes.
[1:32:09] >> Councelor Scott.
[1:32:11] » Councelor Scott.
[1:32:11] >> Councelor Vike.
[1:32:14] » Councelor Vike.
[1:32:14] Deputy Mayor Sandu.
[1:32:15] >> Yes.
[1:32:16] » Yes.
[1:32:16] >> Mayor Leuk.
[1:32:19] » Mayor Leuk.
[1:32:19] >> The motion.
[1:32:21] » The motion.
[1:32:21] >> The motion is carried.
[1:32:25] » Okay. Thank you. We are on to uh 9.2 now
[1:32:29] then. And it's update on Bradford on
[1:32:32] demand transit. Uh our presentation from
[1:32:34] our deputy CEO Mahesh Ramdeo. Floor is
[1:32:38] yours.
[1:32:44] Thank you, Mayor Luk.
[1:32:47] Just give a few minutes, a few seconds.
[1:32:57] So, uh, again, thank you, Mayor Luk,
[1:33:00] Deputy Mayor Sandu, members of council.
[1:33:02] Good evening, Mr. CEO. Good evening.
[1:33:05] First time ever somebody's uh
[1:33:08] uh thank you all for um having me here
[1:33:11] this evening and I wish to start by
[1:33:13] thanking council for their support on
[1:33:16] this the on demand pilot that we've got
[1:33:18] so far um and also to thank staff uh
[1:33:23] especially Paul Dubinak, Joe Coleman,
[1:33:25] Tony D. Ro, Vanessa Morum, Karen
[1:33:28] McKenna, senior management, and
[1:33:32] definitely my communication team who's
[1:33:34] been helping in terms of the
[1:33:36] communication with the public and with
[1:33:37] this presentation. So, thanks to all of
[1:33:39] them.
[1:33:41] In many ways, what I'm going to present
[1:33:43] tonight is
[1:33:45] uh a story of success and challenges
[1:33:48] that really come with success. Um, and
[1:33:51] that's what this this story is about
[1:33:52] this evening.
[1:33:54] Tara, could you?
[1:34:00] Okay.
[1:34:04] I'd like to start with where we began
[1:34:07] what we began with and where we are
[1:34:09] today and some of the the the
[1:34:11] recommendations
[1:34:13] out of our 2031 transit master plan.
[1:34:17] Prior to the on demand pilot, we had a
[1:34:20] fixed bus system, a fixed transit system
[1:34:23] with three routes.
[1:34:25] We saw in 2024, we saw about 60,000
[1:34:28] annual rides. And on April 2nd, the day
[1:34:31] before we started the on demand transit,
[1:34:34] we had 13 174
[1:34:38] rides on the system.
[1:34:42] The 2031 transit master plan had
[1:34:45] highlighted a gap in the system of
[1:34:49] not full coverage of the urban areas of
[1:34:52] Bradford, not full coverage of Bradford
[1:34:55] and made some recommendations going out
[1:34:57] to 2031. Those recommendations required
[1:35:00] 17 buses. The transit master plan did
[1:35:03] not cost out the capital. I worked it
[1:35:05] out to 1.6 million annual cost. It
[1:35:09] estimated an operating cost of about
[1:35:11] five of 4.5 million for a total cost of
[1:35:14] 6.1.
[1:35:15] That for us poses a constraint. Um
[1:35:18] Bradford as a town would be challenged
[1:35:21] to fund that.
[1:35:23] residents had had indicated that they
[1:35:26] prefer full coverage to the low um the
[1:35:29] areas of low coverage within the
[1:35:31] community an increase in the number of
[1:35:32] routes increased frequency and
[1:35:34] definitely uh connections to the the
[1:35:37] higher level transit of go and the
[1:35:39] links.
[1:35:41] So the challenge for us is how do we
[1:35:43] deliver how could we deliver on that um
[1:35:46] given the constraints that we had.
[1:35:49] So
[1:35:52] what would be the benefits of delivering
[1:35:54] on that a better m public system public
[1:35:57] transit system?
[1:35:59] The 2031 transit master plan had
[1:36:01] suggested that if we got to 420,000
[1:36:04] rides in 2031 we could see upwards of
[1:36:09] 16.5 million in economic benefit.
[1:36:12] That is in straight up economic benefit
[1:36:15] and savings to the individuals that
[1:36:16] could be spent within the community.
[1:36:19] The Canadian Public Health Association
[1:36:21] in 2019 had said that people who live in
[1:36:24] communities with good transit drive half
[1:36:26] as much and could save up to $10,000 per
[1:36:30] year per household.
[1:36:33] David Suzuki Foundation said it improves
[1:36:35] quality of life.
[1:36:38] I'd like you to to put the 10,000 into
[1:36:41] context and to
[1:36:45] imagine a future where we could create
[1:36:47] where residents would not need multiple
[1:36:49] cars would be able to save that kind of
[1:36:51] money. Reduce cost of living within
[1:36:53] Bradford hopefully becomes one of the
[1:36:56] attracting tools to Bradford. More
[1:36:58] people coming here, more labor coming
[1:37:00] here, increases in the labor force could
[1:37:02] have a a follow on effect of employers
[1:37:06] moving here because there is the labor
[1:37:08] force. The cost of doing business here
[1:37:10] is lower lower. That means more economic
[1:37:12] development, more jobs, more benefits.
[1:37:15] That's the future that I think we could
[1:37:17] get to. Next one, please.
[1:37:23] So in November 2024,
[1:37:26] council endorsed a shift from the the
[1:37:28] fixed transit system to an on demand
[1:37:30] pilot.
[1:37:33] Just to go back a little bit what an
[1:37:34] ondemand service really is. It's a
[1:37:37] service where riders could choose could
[1:37:39] call a ride via an app or a phone call.
[1:37:43] Um and it will be they'll be serviced in
[1:37:45] real time rather than following a fixed
[1:37:47] route system that's on a schedule. Um,
[1:37:50] it could allow for a more personalized
[1:37:52] service, uh, flexible pickup near their
[1:37:55] where they pick up and drop off near
[1:37:58] where they're going, making it more
[1:38:00] convenient. And in an area like Bradford
[1:38:03] where you've got um lower ridership
[1:38:07] and somewhat inefficient fixed transit,
[1:38:10] it could improve your efficiencies.
[1:38:12] Um, it has the potential of serving all
[1:38:15] of Bradford at a lower cost. um
[1:38:18] increasing frequencies and connecting to
[1:38:19] the trans the higher level transit.
[1:38:23] When we put the system together, our
[1:38:25] thought process was we're starting at
[1:38:27] 60,000 rights per year. We could most
[1:38:30] definitely achieve what Inisville has
[1:38:33] with a shared ride service. That is
[1:38:36] 95,000 rides per year.
[1:38:39] A number to keep in mind is that 95,000
[1:38:42] rides equates to about 300 rides per
[1:38:44] day.
[1:38:46] We started at 174 on April 2nd. I can
[1:38:49] tell you on April 28th, which is when I
[1:38:52] put this presentation together, we did
[1:38:55] 427 rights that day. So, we are
[1:38:58] definitely in four months ahead of what
[1:39:01] we had planned for. That's the success
[1:39:03] and the challenge that comes with that
[1:39:05] success. Next one, please.
[1:39:10] Don't take it from me. Listen to some of
[1:39:13] the writers.
[1:39:21] My name is Greg K. I've lived in
[1:39:23] Bradford for 14 years.
[1:39:25] >> Name's Bonnie Walker. I was born and
[1:39:27] » Name's Bonnie Walker. I was born and
[1:39:28] raised here.
[1:39:31] » What was it like before Fargo?
[1:39:35] >> Quite expensive to go to hospital for
[1:39:37] » Quite expensive to go to hospital for
[1:39:37] treatment in it. 65 $85 one way.
[1:39:41] >> She had to wait for a while for taxis.
[1:39:43] » She had to wait for a while for taxis.
[1:39:43] So there were nights where I might walk
[1:39:45] about 45 plus minutes home.
[1:39:50] >> Do you happen to like to wait in the
[1:39:51] » Do you happen to like to wait in the
[1:39:51] winter time? You like to wait for half
[1:39:54] an hour cuz you just missed the bus.
[1:39:57] Enjoy.
[1:40:06] Before Argo, a lot of my staff would use
[1:40:08] a ride sharing type service. They now
[1:40:11] have the opportunity to get that
[1:40:13] doortodoor service. Usually when I go to
[1:40:16] concerts, we order the artgo and we go
[1:40:19] to the station and then we take the
[1:40:21] train and it's wonderful.
[1:40:24] I use it like five times the same day.
[1:40:28] With a I save a lot of money.
[1:40:31] >> It's a phenomenal service. I get my card
[1:40:34] » It's a phenomenal service. I get my card
[1:40:34] on the bus and I can travel all day long
[1:40:37] delivering honey and it cost me $7
[1:40:39] because it's an hour and a half for a
[1:40:41] dollar. The app is absolutely fantastic.
[1:40:44] They're extremely good drivers. I like
[1:40:47] the door to door service especially come
[1:40:48] like the winter time. You can stay in
[1:40:50] your house. You can look out your window
[1:40:52] instead of crossing a busy intersection
[1:40:54] with my two kids who both have autism.
[1:40:57] So have the Argo service. It's just a
[1:40:59] safer way of transportation.
[1:41:02] The bus has been a godsend for me.
[1:41:05] That's really opened up the doors for me
[1:41:07] and others here.
[1:41:11] [Music]
[1:41:14] It makes me happy. They can go places
[1:41:16] that they wouldn't be able to go. Argo
[1:41:19] have made significant difference in the
[1:41:22] communities.
[1:41:26] » Because of Argo, it's been a different
[1:41:28] way of life.
[1:41:42] Go to the next slide, please.
[1:41:47] Thank you.
[1:41:51] In the 2031 transit master plan, one of
[1:41:53] the themes, the common themes that kept
[1:41:55] coming up was to increase service to
[1:41:59] the urban core to the Bradford area.
[1:42:02] What you're looking at here is a
[1:42:05] comparison.
[1:42:07] On the left are the air the stops on the
[1:42:10] fixed transit system. on the right
[1:42:13] represents one month worth of data
[1:42:16] really late June into July of all the
[1:42:19] stops, all the pickups, all the drop
[1:42:21] offs within the community.
[1:42:25] That is a full coverage.
[1:42:27] We then took that one step further. What
[1:42:29] we did was to take the the trips on the
[1:42:32] right and imagine what h what would
[1:42:34] happen if those were with fixed transit.
[1:42:38] And we computed what the the wait time
[1:42:40] would be, what the right time would be,
[1:42:42] what the walking time would be. And what
[1:42:44] you see the numbers below are the
[1:42:46] comparison of the median rides on fixed
[1:42:49] transit.
[1:42:51] The median trip time, total trip time
[1:42:52] would be 69 minutes.
[1:42:55] The median trip time on on demand
[1:42:58] transit was close to 26 minutes.
[1:43:02] So there is a benefit, but there are
[1:43:05] challenges with it. Did you go to the
[1:43:07] next one?
[1:43:13] Uh, something is supposed to come up
[1:43:14] here. One more, please.
[1:43:17] Yeah, there we go.
[1:43:20] There we go.
[1:43:22] This one I'm going to blame on it slow
[1:43:24] systems.
[1:43:26] Um, challenges. In July,
[1:43:30] we did just over 9,100 trips to when I
[1:43:34] put this presentation together.
[1:43:36] We had 57 complaints. Of that 57
[1:43:39] complaints, half of it was for weight
[1:43:42] times, and I'll speak to that in a
[1:43:43] second. 30% of it were about the app and
[1:43:48] primarily about
[1:43:50] not being sure where the pickup location
[1:43:52] would be and where the drop off
[1:43:53] location, how to get there. Um, some
[1:43:57] were on driver. We did some
[1:43:58] investigation there. Um a fair number of
[1:44:01] those were actually customer
[1:44:04] interaction complaints.
[1:44:07] Um could you go forward please?
[1:44:10] So how were we addressing the weight
[1:44:12] times?
[1:44:13] One of the things that we heard from the
[1:44:15] residents
[1:44:17] um around wait time was not so much that
[1:44:20] they had to wait a long time and to be
[1:44:24] to be transparent to everyone in our
[1:44:27] peak periods which is generally in the
[1:44:29] afternoons wait times what we call the
[1:44:31] P95 wait time which is 95 5% of the
[1:44:35] weight time could approach an hour
[1:44:39] that is a direct indication of demand
[1:44:44] outstripping supply. So you have to wait
[1:44:46] until the bus becomes available. Um
[1:44:50] around that as well, some of the
[1:44:52] concern, some of the anxiety was needing
[1:44:55] to get somewhere by a specific time and
[1:44:58] not being sure
[1:45:00] um if you're going to get there by that
[1:45:01] time.
[1:45:03] So as a team we've looked at how can we
[1:45:05] resolve this and one of the improve
[1:45:07] improvements that will be coming out
[1:45:08] within the next month in September would
[1:45:11] be around predictability of your ride.
[1:45:14] If you plan ahead you can get to your
[1:45:16] location at the time you want. So how
[1:45:19] are we going to do that?
[1:45:21] We'll allow so the the update that's
[1:45:24] coming is to preschedu your ride. book
[1:45:27] it in advance and you can book days in
[1:45:29] advance and you can book repeated rides
[1:45:31] every day. Um and the system will track
[1:45:34] those for you one hour in advance of
[1:45:37] that ride. You will get a reminder your
[1:45:40] ride is in coming in an hour. Please
[1:45:42] reconfirm. If you've reconfirmed that we
[1:45:45] will guarantee that you will arrive
[1:45:47] within on that time.
[1:45:51] So that will give the predictability
[1:45:54] that riders are looking for. Um, yes,
[1:45:57] there is a catch that could end up
[1:46:00] everybody prescheduling. We don't
[1:46:02] believe we will get there. Um, but what
[1:46:05] we're allowing is that with planning
[1:46:06] ahead, you can have full control of what
[1:46:09] is it you want to do. And that's where
[1:46:12] we're going with this one. So, that's in
[1:46:14] September.
[1:46:17] Could you go to the next one, please?
[1:46:24] The other complaints that we did receive
[1:46:25] on the app was
[1:46:28] not knowing or not knowing how to get to
[1:46:30] the location of pickup. Um, right now
[1:46:33] the app does show you a way to get
[1:46:36] there. It could be improved. So within
[1:46:39] the next two weeks, you will get that
[1:46:40] walking direction on the app to get
[1:46:43] there.
[1:46:44] So that's coming in September. Another
[1:46:48] roll out will be if you're going to the
[1:46:50] GO station,
[1:46:52] the app will show you the trip time, the
[1:46:56] scheduled trip times for the transit
[1:46:58] there.
[1:47:00] So you you'll be able to plan your trip
[1:47:01] with planning ahead. You'll be able to
[1:47:03] plan your your trips out. That's where
[1:47:05] we're going with this. And these are
[1:47:07] coming in September. So again, if you're
[1:47:10] willing to plan at least an hour ahead,
[1:47:12] you can have control of your experience.
[1:47:14] And that's what this is about.
[1:47:18] Go ahead, please.
[1:47:27] So, what are we projecting?
[1:47:30] This projection here is a measured
[1:47:33] approach of where we think we can go
[1:47:35] towards building to the 420,000
[1:47:39] annual rise that the 2031 master plan
[1:47:42] had recommended. And that was 2031.
[1:47:46] Why is it a measured approach like this?
[1:47:49] Two reasons
[1:47:52] staff internally we've discussed that it
[1:47:55] is better to grow into the demand,
[1:47:58] manage our resources to get there, drive
[1:48:00] efficiencies to get there versus
[1:48:03] expanding the system right now and
[1:48:05] taking and growing those inefficiencies.
[1:48:07] So this is a measured growth to get
[1:48:09] there. Um also to grow to this level
[1:48:13] would require a fair bit of
[1:48:15] infrastructure that we don't today have.
[1:48:17] We will have to build that if we get
[1:48:19] there. Um so this takes a measured
[1:48:21] approach to get there. What I'm looking
[1:48:24] for um
[1:48:26] going forward is procurement process
[1:48:29] that allows us to do this and allows us
[1:48:31] to do this in the most cost effective
[1:48:33] way.
[1:48:36] The challenge with getting to what I
[1:48:39] just showed you is funding it. How do we
[1:48:42] fund it? Honestly, Bradford as a
[1:48:45] community, unless we do some massive
[1:48:48] um internal revenue generation would be
[1:48:52] a challenge. We need a partner on this.
[1:48:56] We've reached out to the province. We've
[1:48:58] had initial conversations with the
[1:48:59] province. We've shared with them a draft
[1:49:02] application and we've had discussions of
[1:49:05] that draft applications and they've
[1:49:06] given us feedback.
[1:49:10] That process or that funding window
[1:49:16] is for a five-year fund
[1:49:19] that allows us to set the system and
[1:49:23] grow our own internal revenues through
[1:49:26] various means so that at the end of five
[1:49:28] years it is sustainable. So they will
[1:49:31] fund the gap up to that point. Our
[1:49:34] thinking to fund um sustainability will
[1:49:37] be a number of things that will be
[1:49:38] subject to to council's endorsement.
[1:49:41] The ideas that we're looking at right
[1:49:43] now are targeted uh fair increases. I
[1:49:46] say targeted because
[1:49:48] it would be to the demographic that can
[1:49:50] afford it. We are looking at um
[1:49:58] we are looking at um revenue growth
[1:50:02] through sponsorship through advertising.
[1:50:05] We are looking at revenue growth through
[1:50:08] um
[1:50:10] assessment growth that this will drive
[1:50:13] um a number of different ways to get to
[1:50:15] that sustainable measures. But that's
[1:50:18] where we need to get to.
[1:50:21] We're also looking at other funding
[1:50:23] sources such as the green fund and
[1:50:25] anything that comes up we are targeting.
[1:50:27] But the idea is to target consistent
[1:50:30] repeatable funding sources to augment.
[1:50:33] We already have one that will last for
[1:50:35] 10 years. This is for capital. We'll be
[1:50:37] looking for more like those. Um the last
[1:50:40] one that will drive that will happen to
[1:50:41] us is that if we can drive our ridership
[1:50:44] from 60,000 to 350 400,000 it will
[1:50:49] result in an increase in the Canada
[1:50:50] community uh benefits fund the gas tax
[1:50:53] and that will be a funding source for us
[1:50:54] going up as well. We see that we can get
[1:50:58] to sustainability in five to six years.
[1:51:00] We see a path to that. Next one please.
[1:51:10] So, this is what we're looking to do
[1:51:12] over the next uh a few months.
[1:51:15] Release start a procurement process for
[1:51:17] a five-year TR uh contract. And why a
[1:51:20] five-year contract?
[1:51:22] Anybody who's coming in um and I can't
[1:51:27] predicate what I'm doing that's saying
[1:51:30] the pilot will continue. No, it's not
[1:51:32] that. This is going to a competitive
[1:51:34] procurement process that there is a
[1:51:36] potential that it could be somebody new.
[1:51:38] Whoever is coming
[1:51:41] will need to invest a significant amount
[1:51:44] in terms of startup costs. They need to
[1:51:46] recover that. If the procurement period,
[1:51:49] if the the contract period is short,
[1:51:51] they will look to recover that in that
[1:51:53] short period. Higher annual cost to us.
[1:51:56] So this is looking at a reasonable way
[1:51:58] for them to spread that. So we get the
[1:51:59] the the biggest benefit from that.
[1:52:04] It would be based on options.
[1:52:06] One is we get the full funding from the
[1:52:08] province and therefore it could be
[1:52:10] funded and going forward. But a second
[1:52:12] option would be we don't get that
[1:52:14] funding and we need to work within our
[1:52:16] own funding source. If that happens, we
[1:52:18] would have to look back at the
[1:52:20] writership numbers and how we get to
[1:52:22] that and what we could internally
[1:52:25] afford.
[1:52:27] The RFP, we're looking to release it
[1:52:29] later in August, close it in October,
[1:52:32] evaluate and have something by the end
[1:52:34] of October, early November. Um, and we
[1:52:37] would have to come to council for that
[1:52:38] award. That's not something that's going
[1:52:40] to be at a staff level. So it'll be here
[1:52:43] back at council for the discussion in
[1:52:44] terms of funding where we're going and
[1:52:46] how we're paying for it all. Um
[1:52:50] that period will allow six months that
[1:52:52] assuming that it's it could potentially
[1:52:54] be someone new
[1:52:56] allowing that mobilization period for
[1:52:58] them to get their act and get their
[1:53:00] resources here and that's what it is and
[1:53:02] that brings me to the end.
[1:53:06] >> All right. Thank you very much for that
[1:53:07] » All right. Thank you very much for that
[1:53:07] report. I have a few people that went
[1:53:10] right away. So I will go right. The
[1:53:12] first one that hit me was councelor
[1:53:13] and then councelor Jordano next.
[1:53:18] So
[1:53:19] the comments that I've received from so
[1:53:21] many residents is that this system is a
[1:53:24] gamecher for them and it's also from
[1:53:27] what I'm seeing on the map the fixed
[1:53:29] routes
[1:53:31] only serve maybe half the population in
[1:53:33] town because the fixed roots were over
[1:53:36] here over here. But if you lived over
[1:53:38] here, you'd have to walk 20 minutes or
[1:53:41] 15 minutes to get to the bus. That
[1:53:43] didn't make any sense at all. And then
[1:53:45] if the fixed route didn't take you to
[1:53:47] where you needed to go, you'd have to
[1:53:50] walk it. So that made no sense. It was
[1:53:52] just as well, you might as well just
[1:53:53] walk the uh half an hour to get to where
[1:53:56] you needed to go. So the tra public
[1:53:58] transit system only served a small small
[1:54:01] percentage of the town. And you had
[1:54:03] three buses going around. they were
[1:54:06] always empty. Maybe they had two or
[1:54:08] three people in there. So, we were
[1:54:09] basically just wasting money. Um, so I
[1:54:14] would like to move to support this
[1:54:17] recommendation, but I do have a couple
[1:54:18] questions. Um, how do we overcome the
[1:54:23] budget? like how do if if we want to
[1:54:25] award the contract in November 2025, we
[1:54:29] haven't completed the budget process,
[1:54:31] wouldn't it make more sense to award the
[1:54:33] contract after we've completed our
[1:54:35] budget
[1:54:41] uh through Mayor Lukai.
[1:54:43] Fair point. Um the hope is at that point
[1:54:47] in time we would have received word on
[1:54:50] the provincial funding so we'll know the
[1:54:51] funding sources that we've got and we
[1:54:53] could come to you and say okay here are
[1:54:54] the funding sources here how we can fund
[1:54:56] this without impacting the tax base.
[1:54:59] That's the hope.
[1:55:02] >> And if we don't then
[1:55:04] » And if we don't then
[1:55:04] >> plan B,
[1:55:05] » plan B,
[1:55:05] >> what's plan B?
[1:55:07] » what's plan B?
[1:55:07] >> Coming back to to you for to council to
[1:55:10] » Coming back to to you for to council to
[1:55:10] evaluate an option that stays within
[1:55:13] what is it we can afford to fund.
[1:55:18] » Okay, I've got councelor Gordano and
[1:55:20] then councelor Scott.
[1:55:23] >> Well, thanks for the presentation. I
[1:55:25] » Well, thanks for the presentation. I
[1:55:25] know we've been talking a lot back and
[1:55:27] forth over email as this thing rolled
[1:55:28] out. So, I just want to start off by
[1:55:30] saying I I really want uh this this kind
[1:55:34] of on demand system to work. I I think
[1:55:36] my wife doesn't drive. I have uh
[1:55:38] children that don't drive yet. It's it
[1:55:40] is a game changer. Um when it works and
[1:55:44] um I definitely endorse the pilot. Um
[1:55:47] there's a few things I just want to talk
[1:55:48] about. So, I don't know if you want to
[1:55:49] write these down and then maybe it's
[1:55:50] easier if I just go through them all and
[1:55:51] then you can answer back. Um but the one
[1:55:53] thing was the presentation. Like we
[1:55:54] didn't have access to that video ahead
[1:55:56] of time. It didn't work in our uh in our
[1:55:58] system here to view it, but I did find
[1:56:00] that it was very handpicked advantageous
[1:56:02] promotional video. It wasn't really uh
[1:56:04] it was just only showcasing lovers of
[1:56:06] the system. Um I I would have liked
[1:56:08] something maybe a little more
[1:56:09] transparent and uh showing not just the
[1:56:13] people that are loving it, but also
[1:56:15] maybe some of the challenges that
[1:56:16] they're working through. Um like there's
[1:56:18] one gentleman who's actually running a
[1:56:19] business uh being subsidized a dollar a
[1:56:22] ride to deliver products. I don't think
[1:56:24] that was the intent of this. This is a
[1:56:26] public transportation system, not to
[1:56:27] subsidize somebody's business. Um,
[1:56:29] anyways,
[1:56:31] um, a few things that I want to talk
[1:56:34] about. Like I know we're talking about
[1:56:35] successes, but realistically I don't
[1:56:37] think we're able to raise the flag of
[1:56:39] success yet. Although it it works
[1:56:40] fantastically, there's a few concerns
[1:56:42] that we've had. And just remember that
[1:56:43] the public didn't have access to this.
[1:56:45] Only a select few people had access to
[1:56:47] this and we slowly started rolling it
[1:56:48] out. Heck, I had to constantly mail the
[1:56:51] deputy CEO to try to get users on it.
[1:56:54] like that's not in my opinion a pilot. I
[1:56:57] think we're way too premature to say
[1:56:58] that it's a successful pilot at this
[1:57:00] point. Um,
[1:57:02] so at the end of the day, we still
[1:57:04] haven't rolled out the app there. People
[1:57:06] are are having to walk to a station
[1:57:09] needing a cell phone in order to call to
[1:57:12] say, "Hey, I need a I need a a bus
[1:57:14] pickup." Oh, okay. It'll be there in 20
[1:57:16] minutes. Okay, great. Now, when the bus
[1:57:18] when you have the app, the bus says,
[1:57:19] "Oh, I'm being delayed, so it'll come in
[1:57:21] another 3540 minutes." But the people
[1:57:23] who are at the bus, they don't know
[1:57:25] that. So now they're sitting there
[1:57:26] waiting and then they got to call back.
[1:57:27] Oh, sorry. It's delay another 20
[1:57:28] minutes. So they've already been outside
[1:57:29] for 40 minutes, waiting for uh the bus
[1:57:32] to come. So these are the gaps that we
[1:57:34] need to get solved. Um because right now
[1:57:37] those types of situations, people are
[1:57:39] like, I might as well just walk at this
[1:57:40] point right now. When it does come
[1:57:42] relatively quickly or on time, it's
[1:57:44] fantastic. It's door-todoor service a
[1:57:46] lot of cases. And I agree, when you look
[1:57:48] at the coverage, it's far better than
[1:57:50] what we've had in the past. So, I I do I
[1:57:52] do want to say some of that, but I think
[1:57:53] we need to roll out this pilot longer
[1:57:55] and collect more actual data. Um, again,
[1:57:59] the wait times, it's caused people to
[1:58:01] miss uh meetings. There's lots of people
[1:58:03] that I've spoken to me saying like, I
[1:58:04] love it, but then the odd time I just I
[1:58:06] I can't get there on time or delays me,
[1:58:07] delays me, delays me, and I'm stuck, you
[1:58:09] know, missing an appointment or being
[1:58:10] charged for an appointment that I
[1:58:11] couldn't get to in time. Uh, the the on
[1:58:14] demand pre-booking, that's a gamecher. I
[1:58:16] think that's huge. I love that and I
[1:58:18] think that's the future to probably make
[1:58:21] this more successful than what it is
[1:58:22] right now. U but my concern is is that
[1:58:25] you made a guarantee. You said that
[1:58:27] there's a guarantee to get you on time.
[1:58:29] I want to know more about this guarantee
[1:58:30] because I'll tell you right now, if you
[1:58:32] have a snowstorm, if there's an
[1:58:33] accident, if there's just heavy demand,
[1:58:36] what guarantee are we giving people?
[1:58:37] That's a that's a that's something that
[1:58:39] needs to be addressed that you didn't do
[1:58:40] it in your presentation. Um, I want to
[1:58:43] see the app actually rolled out to
[1:58:44] everybody to the the public because
[1:58:46] right now it's only been selected given.
[1:58:48] So, the last thing is that we haven't
[1:58:51] even ran these buses in the winter time.
[1:58:52] We don't even know if these buses can go
[1:58:53] through 4 inches of snow. We don't know
[1:58:55] any of this data. It's got little
[1:58:56] wheels. It's low to the ground. It's
[1:58:58] battery powered. We don't know how these
[1:58:59] things will perform. I'd like to at
[1:59:00] least go through the winter time and see
[1:59:02] the performance before we go ahead and
[1:59:04] and say, "Let's do a 5-year contract and
[1:59:05] roll it out." These are all important
[1:59:07] pieces of data that's missing from your
[1:59:09] so-called successful pilot. We're not
[1:59:12] there yet. We said a one-year pilot. I
[1:59:14] want to count one year when it rolls out
[1:59:16] to the public, not from the day we
[1:59:17] started and we slowly drip drip drip
[1:59:18] drip drip to people. It has to be one
[1:59:20] year as an actual transit system in
[1:59:23] order for me to have the data to say
[1:59:24] that this is fully supported. Um, and
[1:59:28] then the last thing I want to say,
[1:59:29] whether it's our old transit system, new
[1:59:31] transit system, this transit system, we
[1:59:33] need to connect to Henderson Park.
[1:59:35] I I think I think at some point we need
[1:59:37] to figure out how to do that as soon as
[1:59:39] possible. That that place is an absolute
[1:59:40] gem and it's not being connected and we
[1:59:43] can't get there safely. Nobody can ride
[1:59:44] their bikes or walk there and like
[1:59:46] there's so many families that would
[1:59:48] utilize that place so much more during
[1:59:49] the day. So that's a priority for me for
[1:59:51] this transit system. Thank you.
[1:59:56] » You want to respond to any questions?
[1:59:58] Sure.
[1:59:59] >> Um
[2:00:01] » Um
[2:00:01] I wrote them down so I'll I'll go
[2:00:03] through all of them. One of them I might
[2:00:05] need some help. Um
[2:00:08] the video you mentioned the challenges
[2:00:10] that is exactly why I had the subsequent
[2:00:14] slide on the challenges. It this is
[2:00:16] about transparency. Um whilst 9,100 plus
[2:00:22] rides happened from July 1st to July 28
[2:00:27] when I put this together, we had 57
[2:00:30] complaints. And that's why I wanted to
[2:00:33] put that out there.
[2:00:34] um what those complaints were, the
[2:00:37] general categories because it's it's
[2:00:39] about transparency,
[2:00:42] bus delays. Um first of all, the app,
[2:00:45] everybody has access to the app. Um
[2:00:54] » just let let him finish.
[2:01:00] Everybody has access to the app and when
[2:01:02] it comes as I said in the presentation
[2:01:05] when it comes to
[2:01:07] wait time that is happening when the
[2:01:11] demand for the service exceeds the
[2:01:13] capacity of the service. Um and that's a
[2:01:16] resource issue and that's something
[2:01:17] we're hoping that with the provincial
[2:01:19] help we'll be able to resolve. It's not
[2:01:22] something to be honest, it's not
[2:01:23] something that we've got as a town.
[2:01:26] We've got the resources to put to that.
[2:01:29] Um, so we we do need some help. Why is
[2:01:32] it a benefit that we've been telling the
[2:01:34] province? It drives economic growth. Not
[2:01:37] only does it drive quality of life, it
[2:01:39] drives economic growth. When it
[2:01:41] something drives economic growth, the
[2:01:43] province benefits, the feds benefit more
[2:01:45] so than we do. Um, so we need them to
[2:01:48] come to the table as well. And that's
[2:01:49] been the conversation. They've been good
[2:01:51] in that they've come to the table.
[2:01:52] They've looked at what is it we've
[2:01:53] proposed. They've um they've given us
[2:01:55] feedback and they've asked for a
[2:01:57] resubmitt. So, we'll at least they're
[2:01:58] talking to us as opposed to reviewing
[2:02:01] and that's the end of it. So, we're I am
[2:02:03] hopeful. I'm on that particular part. Um
[2:02:07] you mentioned missing meetings, you also
[2:02:09] mentioned the the app in terms of the
[2:02:12] being able to plan ahead. Yes, that will
[2:02:14] be a game changer. um it'll roll out
[2:02:16] next month. So, we'll see where that
[2:02:18] goes and how that goes. Um
[2:02:22] why coming now for an update and saying
[2:02:25] we need to go forward? I can't make a
[2:02:28] decision assuming that it will be the
[2:02:30] same provider going forward. I have to
[2:02:34] consider that there is a potential that
[2:02:35] someone else some other firm could be
[2:02:38] successful and if they were successful
[2:02:41] they would need time to remobilize time
[2:02:43] to set up their infrastructure to start
[2:02:45] on April 1st. They need timing ahead of
[2:02:49] that. If I were to wait to the end of
[2:02:51] the pilot which is April f March 31st
[2:02:54] then they would not have that time to
[2:02:56] mobilize. Um that would be a challenge
[2:02:59] for us. So that is why I'm here now. Um
[2:03:02] Henderson Park. Yeah, it would be nice
[2:03:04] to have right resourcing. So with the
[2:03:07] province help, maybe we can do that.
[2:03:12] » Yeah, good answer. So sorry, I I I was
[2:03:14] misspoken. There was the app that just
[2:03:17] recently was made available to everyone.
[2:03:19] What date was that?
[2:03:20] >> Uh uh little
[2:03:24] » Yeah, early July.
[2:03:26] >> Right. So about a month.
[2:03:29] » Right. So about a month.
[2:03:29] >> So that's how I look at a pilot. we'd
[2:03:31] » So that's how I look at a pilot. we'd
[2:03:31] really only have the public available
[2:03:32] for a month to really use this. We've
[2:03:34] had a select bunch of people slowly
[2:03:36] getting dripped onto it. Um me
[2:03:39] personally, is there an opportunity for
[2:03:41] us to extend the pilot till maybe July
[2:03:43] of next year, therefore giving you a
[2:03:46] whole year's worth of users data in
[2:03:49] order to understand and to shape and
[2:03:50] look at it. Why are we rushing right
[2:03:52] away for an April 1 arbitrary deadline?
[2:03:54] I think we can extend the uh the pilot
[2:03:57] or at least go through the full winter
[2:03:58] and utilize that. I'm not comfortable
[2:04:00] any transit system that's a pilot from a
[2:04:03] brand new concept that doesn't really
[2:04:05] exist in in Ontario that I'm aware of. I
[2:04:07] think there there's one or two people
[2:04:08] are trying it out as well. But the point
[2:04:10] is is that we we got to be careful
[2:04:13] before we go all in on anything. And I'd
[2:04:15] like to see more data personally. I'd
[2:04:16] like to see more user experience
[2:04:18] information and and frankly, you know,
[2:04:21] get the bugs and figured out not just
[2:04:22] from this company, but from in general
[2:04:23] because there might be other things
[2:04:24] throughout the winter that we might
[2:04:25] understand because these these buses,
[2:04:27] although they're electric, they're also
[2:04:28] equipped with a diesel engine. Correct.
[2:04:29] That also helps maybe the heating
[2:04:31] systems or something like that in the
[2:04:32] winter time or I'm not sure how that
[2:04:34] works, but I want to see how that
[2:04:35] performs as well. I want to understand
[2:04:36] what it's like in, you know, with with
[2:04:38] the icy or snowy weather. How much
[2:04:40] longer does it take for on demand
[2:04:42] service to work? I think this is
[2:04:43] important data. I don't want to rush
[2:04:44] this.
[2:04:47] Okay, thank you. You are you responding
[2:04:49] to anything or
[2:04:50] >> I can respond to the last part if if you
[2:04:52] » I can respond to the last part if if you
[2:04:52] wishes. Um again through you mayor Luk.
[2:04:56] Uh we do have some Arargo folks here who
[2:04:58] can speak to you in terms of the
[2:04:59] performance of the buses during winter.
[2:05:02] Um we did start on April 3rd that first
[2:05:05] half of April it was operating and
[2:05:07] weather down to minus 7 minus five those
[2:05:11] right. Um so it was operating in terms
[2:05:14] of these buses have been used in Halifax
[2:05:17] have been used in Oakville for at least
[2:05:19] for the last winter probably two
[2:05:20] winters. Um if you're looking for data
[2:05:23] on in how it's performed there we can
[2:05:26] get that to you right I can you wish it
[2:05:28] now Argo is here or we can give you that
[2:05:31] data later.
[2:05:32] Okay thank you I've got councelor Scott
[2:05:35] next and councelor Harper.
[2:05:39] Um, thank you uh to the deputy CEO, all
[2:05:41] the staff and the team from Argo. This
[2:05:44] has been an innovative project and the
[2:05:46] roll out started off frankly better than
[2:05:48] I expected with the initial transit
[2:05:50] riders then phasing into the app opening
[2:05:52] this summer. Ridership more than
[2:05:55] doubling over the first few months is
[2:05:57] huge. We've expanded coverage as council
[2:05:59] said additional hours. We're
[2:06:02] reaching more residents more often and
[2:06:04] we were one of the first anywhere to
[2:06:06] launch a fully electric app-based on
[2:06:08] demand transit system and I think that's
[2:06:10] something we should be proud of. The
[2:06:12] success has brought inevitable pressure.
[2:06:15] demand is outpacing supply, especially
[2:06:18] during peak hours as was referenced. And
[2:06:21] it's the wait time variability that I
[2:06:23] think's become a real concern. And we've
[2:06:25] started to hear it may have been 57
[2:06:28] complaints, but I think we heard every
[2:06:30] all 57 of them. So, I'm I'm glad to see
[2:06:35] staff looking into the pre-booking
[2:06:36] options for people with set uh
[2:06:38] schedules. I I think that'll help
[2:06:40] commuters. Getting ahead of the back to
[2:06:42] school season where I think we're going
[2:06:44] to see demand spike during peak hours is
[2:06:46] also going to be huge. So, I support
[2:06:48] that direction. I think that's another
[2:06:50] innovative innovative tweak to try and
[2:06:53] improve the app. And Uber to an extent
[2:06:56] has that feature. Um, I like where we're
[2:06:59] going there. It's going to go a long way
[2:07:01] to improving reliability and confidence
[2:07:03] in the system if you know that you can
[2:07:05] book to get to work or get to school. Uh
[2:07:08] I do think we still have opportunities
[2:07:10] to really integrate with the county's
[2:07:12] links bus system. That's what serves
[2:07:14] bond head to some extent right now and
[2:07:17] other parts of the highway 400 uh jobs
[2:07:20] corridor and trying to find a way to
[2:07:23] almost do a handoff between someone
[2:07:25] coming from Bondad into Bradford. I'd
[2:07:28] like to see that and the same with the
[2:07:29] go bus because that serves our our rural
[2:07:31] Young Street corridor and and
[2:07:33] integrating between the intra regional,
[2:07:36] the regional and the local transit is is
[2:07:39] something that I don't really think many
[2:07:42] municipalities do well. The TTC maybe in
[2:07:45] the Tobico but less so in Scar Bro. Uh
[2:07:48] so trying to fix that would be huge. Um
[2:07:51] just a few questions. You you mentioned
[2:07:52] advertising. We had an ad program on the
[2:07:55] fixed route bus. So, what happened to
[2:07:58] that? How quickly can we bring it back?
[2:08:01] It is a fullear pilot. Uh, I too want to
[2:08:03] see how it works in wintertime. Uh, and
[2:08:06] a 5-year contract launching for the RFP.
[2:08:08] Why five years? Uh, why not 10 or some
[2:08:12] other number? And then we're essentially
[2:08:15] talking about a public private
[2:08:16] partnership here. and and I know our our
[2:08:19] previous bus system we contracted with a
[2:08:22] a bus company, but are we sure that
[2:08:24] federal or provincial grants apply here
[2:08:27] uh when we're basically contracting the
[2:08:31] service? So, those are my questions. I
[2:08:34] mean, I I I see the two or three
[2:08:36] opportunities the deputy CEO's outlined
[2:08:38] as as good attempts uh that will help
[2:08:42] write the next chapter in the
[2:08:43] transformation. We're iterating the app
[2:08:45] as we go and I I like to see that. Uh
[2:08:48] but we need to scale it up, improve
[2:08:49] predictability and connect more
[2:08:51] seamlessly to the regional network. I'd
[2:08:53] say those are the three opportunities to
[2:08:55] really improve. And then those two or
[2:08:57] three questions I asked as well, please
[2:09:03] you may lupa councelor uh Scott
[2:09:07] start with um your second question.
[2:09:10] Would the province and federal funding
[2:09:13] apply? The province has said yes. Right.
[2:09:16] Last Wednesday we met and this was one
[2:09:19] of the questions. Um why fiveyear?
[2:09:24] The I'm not going to say the firm
[2:09:27] conversation was around fiveyear.
[2:09:29] The decision on fiveyear
[2:09:32] seemed long enough that allows the
[2:09:36] whoever that proponent is to be able to
[2:09:39] reasonably recover their investment and
[2:09:41] not really tie the municipality. Can we
[2:09:43] look at five plus an option? Yes, that's
[2:09:45] that would be a good good way to look at
[2:09:47] it. Um and we'll take that back from
[2:09:49] you. Um connect to other higher levels
[2:09:53] of levels of transit. Two things are
[2:09:56] happening in that front. One is we
[2:09:57] showed on the app the ability to to see
[2:09:59] what's coming. Um to be able to pre-plan
[2:10:03] something from here, let's say to Alison
[2:10:06] connecting to the links and going
[2:10:07] forward where you seamlessly walk. I
[2:10:10] think the most we'll be able to do is
[2:10:12] show when the bus is coming. So you able
[2:10:14] to connect, you're there in time for it.
[2:10:16] Um but it wouldn't be like an aircraft
[2:10:18] where your stuff wouldn't be like that.
[2:10:21] But you'll need to be able to do that.
[2:10:22] The second thing that staff and I are
[2:10:24] looking at is in terms of links. What
[2:10:28] are the how more can we leverage links
[2:10:30] within the community? It is something
[2:10:32] that we pay for already. So we want to
[2:10:35] be able to leverage that that resource
[2:10:36] that's available to us. Not to replace
[2:10:38] but to augment what is it we have right
[2:10:40] now. And specifically we're looking at
[2:10:42] things like increasing frequency. We
[2:10:44] they they've already made that decision.
[2:10:46] And we're looking at their accessible
[2:10:49] service as well. So those are ways that
[2:10:50] we can connect and leverage.
[2:10:53] >> Thank you. Just quick follow-ups. Uh I
[2:10:56] » Thank you. Just quick follow-ups. Uh I
[2:10:56] do think links and go are key. Lynx runs
[2:10:58] right down the center spine of town. It
[2:11:00] could I think relieve some pressure at
[2:11:03] some times. Go train runs, you know,
[2:11:06] Young Street, Berry Street along Holland
[2:11:08] Street as well. It it actually
[2:11:09] duplicates more than it should with
[2:11:11] links. Perhaps we could hire that out.
[2:11:13] We're going to run an open fair RFP
[2:11:16] process. The manager of procurement's
[2:11:18] nodding at me. We're going to follow
[2:11:20] every procurement rules. That being
[2:11:22] said, I just want to say to the Argo
[2:11:24] folks, we've been your guinea pig for
[2:11:26] the past number of months. You're a tech
[2:11:28] company. I like to think of us as
[2:11:30] something as a founder. It would not be
[2:11:33] good if you didn't win our business back
[2:11:35] for your own expansion. So, I just keep
[2:11:37] hope you keep that in mind when you're
[2:11:39] tailoring your response to the RFP that
[2:11:41] a a founders's deal would go over very
[2:11:43] nicely.
[2:11:46] And just a comment on on the uh
[2:11:50] integrating better with links. Uh the
[2:11:51] county is going through a transit plan
[2:11:53] right now and we're there's a survey out
[2:11:54] there. So we should all we should all
[2:11:56] buy into that survey. Okay. So right now
[2:11:58] I have uh councelor Harour next and then
[2:12:00] councelor dyiky and then I'm going to go
[2:12:02] dep council
[2:12:09] and then councelor shared tahaney.
[2:12:11] Sorry.
[2:12:14] Thank you, mayor.
[2:12:16] Deputy CEO, thank you very much for
[2:12:18] presentation. Um, I'm speaking today not
[2:12:22] really to dispute progress. Um, but I'd
[2:12:26] like to question preparedness
[2:12:29] on four points. Let's talk about some
[2:12:31] highlights that a lot of people have
[2:12:32] talked about here. The on demand transit
[2:12:35] pilot has made some clear strides. It's
[2:12:37] great. Coverage has expanded. clearly
[2:12:41] illustrated that ridership has more than
[2:12:43] doubled. Public feedback is cautiously
[2:12:47] optimistic. I'll be positive on that.
[2:12:50] We've gone from 174 daily trips to over
[2:12:53] 400.
[2:12:55] That's commendable.
[2:12:56] But on a dollar a ride,
[2:13:00] we rode we put the the transit system to
[2:13:03] a dollar because we had low ridership
[2:13:06] before, but we have the wrership now. we
[2:13:09] increase that. What does that look like?
[2:13:12] A pilot is used for certain aspects like
[2:13:14] that and to control and to also make
[2:13:18] offset costs back to the public.
[2:13:22] Progress without accountability is risk.
[2:13:26] And before I'm prepared to endorse a
[2:13:27] long-term service provider, you have not
[2:13:30] provided proof. You provided hearsay
[2:13:33] when you mentioned Argo has winterized
[2:13:37] readiness but failed to provide that to
[2:13:40] us here today. If you had that, why
[2:13:43] didn't you provide it to us? I don't
[2:13:45] like that. We live in Bradford, West
[2:13:47] Wilbury, not Southern California, not
[2:13:50] Vancouver. This David Suzuki plugged
[2:13:52] with 2.8 million people. This is
[2:13:54] Bradford, West Wilbury. We've approved a
[2:13:57] system that's entirely vehicle-based,
[2:14:00] door-todoor, weather sensitive. Yet,
[2:14:03] across all three reports that you
[2:14:05] presented and the presentation, you have
[2:14:07] zero evidence of operational reliability
[2:14:10] in winter conditions.
[2:14:12] Why?
[2:14:14] Why leave that out? Why rush for the
[2:14:17] November? I understand the concepts you
[2:14:20] pushed and why for April,
[2:14:23] but what happens during snow squalls
[2:14:26] here in Bradford that shuts down for
[2:14:29] days. We had a really bad one. It was
[2:14:33] like three days people couldn't move. I
[2:14:35] had I had whole subdivisions
[2:14:39] complaining because we couldn't even get
[2:14:40] plows down there. What is that going to
[2:14:42] do for transit?
[2:14:44] Are the vehicles winterized and
[2:14:46] equipped? said they are, but again,
[2:14:48] there's no proof.
[2:14:50] Will there be service delays, worse
[2:14:52] shutdowns? We're already seeing some
[2:14:54] delays here. And you're talking about
[2:14:56] new features to roll out, which is
[2:14:58] great. I use tech companies all the
[2:15:01] time, and they say, "Yeah, Q4, we're
[2:15:03] going to roll out new features, but
[2:15:05] they're untested still, and they will
[2:15:07] provide more necessary needs that like
[2:15:10] we'll have other fixes for their fixes.
[2:15:13] It's like updates, but we don't have
[2:15:15] those data. We don't have that data of
[2:15:17] what it looks like. It's great that
[2:15:19] you're creating those fixes right now
[2:15:20] for those technological delays and and
[2:15:23] those new features that you want to roll
[2:15:24] out, but during that pilot, we need
[2:15:26] these this data to give us a more
[2:15:28] informed like decision. Do I think that
[2:15:32] we are going to be moving towards this
[2:15:34] in the long term? Yes. But I think we
[2:15:36] need to do it more um cautiously and
[2:15:39] right from the beginning. That's a red
[2:15:42] flag. You want to have a five-year deal
[2:15:45] and then you're talking about provincial
[2:15:46] funding. If we don't get it, you just
[2:15:50] said it's on the taxpayers.
[2:15:53] Well, I gave it a solution in regards to
[2:15:56] cost per ride that could help offset
[2:15:59] that. Um, but we're banking on this
[2:16:02] provincial thing and then we have to go
[2:16:04] to plan B. Again, that we don't know
[2:16:06] what plan B is. We just know that
[2:16:08] there's plan B. So, when I say
[2:16:10] preparedness, I need that information.
[2:16:13] you know, um do we raise taxes to fund
[2:16:16] it? Uh do we scale back service? There's
[2:16:19] a lot of options there. Third point was
[2:16:22] peak hour wait times and accountability.
[2:16:25] We've talked a lot about that. My my uh
[2:16:27] colleagues have talked about it right
[2:16:28] now. Again, you've got new features
[2:16:31] coming out to try to, you know,
[2:16:33] circumvent that. But we don't even have
[2:16:35] full ridership that's only just been
[2:16:37] opened up for less than a month. And
[2:16:39] then we want to go to full RFP.
[2:16:42] So, I'm not saying I don't support the
[2:16:44] modern responsive transit. I think we
[2:16:46] do. I think, you know, when this
[2:16:49] initially came, I wasn't against the
[2:16:51] system. I was against the business plan.
[2:16:53] And I think that's still where we're at
[2:16:55] because it's going to come down to that
[2:16:57] RFP. That'll be a business plan. We have
[2:17:00] been guinea pigs for the founder. But
[2:17:02] let's do this right. We need to demand
[2:17:05] new features that are untested and have
[2:17:07] the measures, the data to provide us
[2:17:09] that they're working. They're They're
[2:17:11] solving those solutions
[2:17:13] so far. They've been able to curb a lot
[2:17:16] of um barriers that have been thrown at
[2:17:20] them with with maneuvering their tech
[2:17:22] and updating their code, which is great.
[2:17:25] That transparency is something that I
[2:17:28] know about just but the updates that
[2:17:30] we've been get communicated back and
[2:17:31] forth and talking with yourself. That's
[2:17:34] great transparency to know that the tech
[2:17:36] company can implement those at a pretty
[2:17:39] rapid rate and that's great. But all
[2:17:41] these other new features need to be the
[2:17:43] be tested as well. And they might need
[2:17:46] they might even create other new
[2:17:47] features that we don't even see coming
[2:17:49] yet. And I think that's probably going
[2:17:51] to be the lifespan of of uh this type of
[2:17:54] app service or this type of transit
[2:17:56] service that we'll create those because
[2:17:59] things change all the time. even whether
[2:18:01] if we update the the coverage area, the
[2:18:03] zoning, or the scheduling, or even more
[2:18:06] buses.
[2:18:08] So, what I'd like to see is that we have
[2:18:10] that tech transparency data, proof of
[2:18:14] winter readiness, financial contingency,
[2:18:17] whether the PR providence rolls out on
[2:18:19] it. If we wait and we we delay the RFP,
[2:18:23] we'll have a word from the pro province.
[2:18:26] We'll have our winter readiness in
[2:18:28] regards to proof how it relies on our
[2:18:31] and and we'll know about the
[2:18:32] accountability of wait times and how
[2:18:34] we've actually circumvented uh those
[2:18:36] barriers and problems here in this town
[2:18:39] and then we'll be able to actually give
[2:18:40] a more profound choice of this on demand
[2:18:43] service. I don't think it's not going to
[2:18:45] go anywhere. I think it's something it's
[2:18:46] going to be here to stay, but let's do
[2:18:48] it right. Can't support it right now,
[2:18:51] but I I'm very optimistic that we can
[2:18:54] get there in the long term.
[2:18:58] Okay, thank you. Uh, I'm on to councelor
[2:19:00] Dyke.
[2:19:03] >> Well, I must say it's, you know, I watch
[2:19:06] » Well, I must say it's, you know, I watch
[2:19:06] I watch the bus go many times past my
[2:19:08] door every day and and I'm very
[2:19:10] impressed that how we have increased the
[2:19:14] ridership. A dollar a ride is very
[2:19:17] affordable. I I really um I'm impressed
[2:19:20] with the accessibility of people with uh
[2:19:22] that have walkers and shoulders and
[2:19:25] wheelchairs now they can afford to get
[2:19:27] around this town which which means a lot
[2:19:29] and I know there's a lot of bugs and
[2:19:31] there has been a lot of bugs and there's
[2:19:32] still still a few bugs out there and I
[2:19:35] and I still have people on a daily basis
[2:19:37] come in they're scared they're still
[2:19:39] scared of the app they're scared of the
[2:19:41] information going through the app there
[2:19:43] many many things I don't even want to
[2:19:46] discuss this you know, between uh I'll
[2:19:49] send it forward to you. But I have I
[2:19:51] have a few people seniors that they tell
[2:19:53] me they don't have a phone and then they
[2:19:55] find it very still awkward yet. So
[2:19:57] that's only maybe 1% that don't have the
[2:19:59] phones, but there's little things that
[2:20:01] we need to continue to work out. I'd
[2:20:03] like to see this pile pilot project go a
[2:20:06] little longer and uh especially winter
[2:20:08] time to see the snow, the coldness, how
[2:20:11] these batteries are going to operate.
[2:20:12] But you know, I know when it comes to
[2:20:13] it, I have confidence in the in and the
[2:20:16] partners that can make this software
[2:20:19] work and uh they have the experience by
[2:20:22] just by talking to them uh the day they
[2:20:24] give us a ride. They come from a
[2:20:25] background that they know how to do
[2:20:27] these programs that that could help us
[2:20:30] in municipality. Long term u the finance
[2:20:33] business plan is going to be quite
[2:20:35] challenging. Um I hope that we get
[2:20:37] funding from the provincial government
[2:20:39] uh and uh means of help find this
[2:20:42] because at the end of the day I don't
[2:20:44] know if with the plan I see I don't know
[2:20:46] if we can afford the taxpayers to afford
[2:20:50] the high demand of of this program it's
[2:20:52] very successful for users but what's the
[2:20:55] overall cost dollars for dollars so so
[2:20:57] I'd like to see more of the business
[2:20:59] plan and I hope that the problems come
[2:21:01] through but uh but you know mahash
[2:21:03] yourself your team everyone behind
[2:21:05] trying to work very hard to deliver this
[2:21:07] and I give I commend everybody for
[2:21:09] bringing something new to Bradford but I
[2:21:11] feel that we need to spend more time
[2:21:13] with this before we jump into it but
[2:21:15] it's rolling out I think we're maybe 70%
[2:21:18] there but we got to keep on going so
[2:21:22] >> okay thank you for that uh next up I
[2:21:25] » okay thank you for that uh next up I
[2:21:25] have uh councelor or deput
[2:21:29] thank you worship Mr. Rando, thank you.
[2:21:32] Perine, thank you to your team and our
[2:21:35] staff.
[2:21:37] You know, it's encouraging to see that
[2:21:39] the wrership more than doubled in in
[2:21:42] such short time. Um, as you said, 9,00
[2:21:46] trips, less than 1% complaints, but
[2:21:50] still 57 complaints is too many.
[2:21:54] Um,
[2:21:55] I'm one of those people that always look
[2:21:57] at the glass half full rather than
[2:21:59] empty.
[2:22:00] I would be concerned if the complaints
[2:22:05] weren't handled or there was no plan to
[2:22:07] address those complaints. And it looks
[2:22:09] like you're addressing them. So that's
[2:22:12] good.
[2:22:13] I also like the
[2:22:16] plan that we're planning now so we're in
[2:22:18] place come next year that we're ready to
[2:22:22] go. Doesn't mean that the current um
[2:22:26] partner will be there. It could be
[2:22:28] someone else like you said. at least
[2:22:30] we're ready. Um, but I also understand
[2:22:33] the questions from my colleagues about
[2:22:35] winter and and those answers uh need to
[2:22:38] be um given to us and and the public.
[2:22:43] There's lots of um people that that
[2:22:48] really like this. Um I know a comment
[2:22:52] was made about subsiding someone's
[2:22:53] vehicle um business. as long as they're
[2:22:57] taking the ride and and paying what we
[2:22:59] have set up in the system, they're just
[2:23:01] using the service that we provide.
[2:23:04] Um, so I don't have a problem with that.
[2:23:07] That's why we have this. Um, I met many
[2:23:10] PSWs that were paying lots of monies to
[2:23:13] go from their home to Loft or to
[2:23:17] Bradford Valley or somewhere else that
[2:23:19] are saving money and they're not making
[2:23:21] too much money. Trust me, I have many
[2:23:24] family members that are in that uh
[2:23:26] field.
[2:23:28] Um so this is a good thing. The
[2:23:30] questions I have is um in your in your
[2:23:35] report you mentioned six items that that
[2:23:39] or six points that would be used for
[2:23:42] RFP.
[2:23:44] I think three addresses my question but
[2:23:47] I want to hear it in detail. Um if
[2:23:52] they can't make the time guarantees
[2:23:56] um what is the penalty or what is the
[2:24:00] um of our safeguard that we have in
[2:24:03] place that we would be compensated for
[2:24:05] that or or corrected if you can talk to
[2:24:08] that. Also your projections chart show
[2:24:11] us going from 3.3 passengers per capita
[2:24:14] to six uh is it 6.4 or five uh by 2031.
[2:24:20] That's that's uh wrership increases.
[2:24:23] What does that equate into gas tax
[2:24:25] funding that we would get an increase
[2:24:27] annually? Because we used to only get
[2:24:29] based on what we had, we doubled in
[2:24:32] short time. That means the funding that
[2:24:34] we're going to get apart from what
[2:24:36] you're working on on the expansion, it's
[2:24:39] going to go increased. Do we have that
[2:24:41] idea or any number? Thank you.
[2:24:48] I'll start with the community benefits
[2:24:51] um the gas tax. My projection and this
[2:24:55] is my projection based upon how I
[2:24:57] believe
[2:24:59] the calculation happens. I'm not privy
[2:25:01] to the actual formula is that we should
[2:25:04] see a 50% increase in that revenue. Um
[2:25:09] that was done based upon what other
[2:25:11] communities our size
[2:25:15] who have wrership that's close to what
[2:25:17] we're projecting or slightly above and
[2:25:20] try to come up with a an a formula.
[2:25:24] So about a 50% increase. Your second
[2:25:27] question in terms of what happens if
[2:25:31] the proponent does not meet those
[2:25:33] guarantees.
[2:25:35] I don't believe we can put a penalty per
[2:25:38] se in the and Vanessa if I misspe please
[2:25:43] um in the RFP what we could do is your
[2:25:49] payments we could set up a system where
[2:25:51] the payments to the the proponent
[2:25:54] is actually lower. So if you can't meet
[2:25:56] the service level that you committed to
[2:25:58] you get paid at a different rate for a
[2:26:00] lower service level we can put that into
[2:26:02] the RFP and we can set that up. That is
[2:26:04] something that we have not settled on
[2:26:06] the formula for that but it's it's
[2:26:08] definitely the way that we we believe
[2:26:10] that we need to go to.
[2:26:14] » So penalties in a commercial contract
[2:26:15] are actually not enforceable at law. So
[2:26:18] we can't call it a penalty. We do have
[2:26:20] to come up with something that's
[2:26:21] reasonable um that the town would pay
[2:26:24] out if those service levels aren't met.
[2:26:27] So we have to develop that in the back
[2:26:28] end before we even go to market.
[2:26:36] Okay. Okay. Great questions. Uh on to uh
[2:26:39] councelor Farji next.
[2:26:42] Thank you. Um I'm just going to go
[2:26:44] through the comments that I made while I
[2:26:46] was writing the report. I added a few
[2:26:48] while you were having the presentation
[2:26:50] um because I might regurgitate some of
[2:26:53] the stuff that said, but I didn't do too
[2:26:54] too much. Um, so basically this report
[2:26:57] wants us to endorse the staff plan to
[2:27:00] procure a long-term service provider for
[2:27:02] its ondemand transit services, but from
[2:27:05] what I've seen, it's been mentioned at
[2:27:07] the table. Some say it's been amazing. I
[2:27:09] I know it has been amazing for some
[2:27:11] people, but there are still so many bugs
[2:27:13] and questions at this point. Um, and the
[2:27:15] pro the project's still evolving. Like
[2:27:17] tonight alone, you said in two weeks
[2:27:19] you're going to have a better route
[2:27:21] showing up on the app and in September
[2:27:23] you're going to have uh to the go
[2:27:25] station there's going to be a roll out.
[2:27:27] Um the the pre-booking stuff like I mean
[2:27:29] this stuff should be all part of the
[2:27:30] pilot. We should be rolling with this
[2:27:32] already. Uh the issues that we're having
[2:27:35] with people getting online to the app,
[2:27:37] it's been the last month they're finally
[2:27:39] able to get it everybody. So there's
[2:27:41] been uh multiple complaints on social
[2:27:44] media slagging on the system which I
[2:27:47] don't think is fair because it wasn't at
[2:27:48] a full capacity yet and it wasn't be
[2:27:50] able to use by everybody. But at the
[2:27:52] same time these are complaints that have
[2:27:54] happened and the town hasn't had the
[2:27:56] full service yet for people. So I don't
[2:28:00] to Joe's point or sorry councelor
[2:28:01] Gioano's point um I don't consider it a
[2:28:04] full pilot at this point. Um in the
[2:28:07] report it says that there are two ways
[2:28:09] to reduce the weight times as well to
[2:28:12] iterate uh the routting technology to
[2:28:14] make it as efficient as possible and to
[2:28:16] increase the number of available
[2:28:17] vehicles. So why hasn't this already
[2:28:19] been worked out into the pilot project?
[2:28:21] Why hasn't this already been worked out
[2:28:23] into a program that we can see how it
[2:28:25] actually plays out? Staff submitted a
[2:28:28] draft funding application to the
[2:28:30] province. You've already mentioned that
[2:28:31] a few times in your presentation and now
[2:28:34] uh and had conversation conversations
[2:28:36] with the Ministry of Transportation
[2:28:37] staff on the funding possibilities. The
[2:28:40] potential provincial funding envelope is
[2:28:42] for 5 years. So we have the funding
[2:28:45] potentially we can get the funding and
[2:28:48] then it's ex then we are expected to
[2:28:50] achieve financial self- sustaining
[2:28:52] status after year five because that
[2:28:54] funding is gone through in the report
[2:28:57] you have it as self-sufficient to become
[2:29:00] self-sufficient through increases in
[2:29:02] ridership fair revenues gas tax revenues
[2:29:05] assessment growth and small taxation
[2:29:08] increases I don't know how small it's
[2:29:11] going to be when you're shooting for 17
[2:29:13] buses
[2:29:13] Not sure on those numbers. I saw the the
[2:29:16] main numbers that you threw up there,
[2:29:17] but I just
[2:29:19] it there's still a lot of questions to
[2:29:20] that in my mind. Uh and then in tonight,
[2:29:24] you even mentioned there would be
[2:29:26] increases to fairs to those that can
[2:29:29] afford it. So, I don't know if you want
[2:29:31] to clarify on that after uh I finished
[2:29:34] asking my questions because who can
[2:29:35] afford it? Like where where do you draw
[2:29:37] the line? Where do you separate people
[2:29:39] to who can and cannot afford it? How
[2:29:40] would that work? Um, and then the RFP
[2:29:45] that you had written out, it'll have
[2:29:47] pricing uh based on batches of 25,000
[2:29:51] annual rides. So yet apparently we had
[2:29:53] almost 10,000 in July, which has been
[2:29:56] mentioned, and we're presuming to reach
[2:29:59] 420,000 rides in 2031. So why would
[2:30:02] there be such a low expectation for the
[2:30:04] RFP in pricing? That was a question that
[2:30:07] came up while I was reading it. And it's
[2:30:09] obviously that it will not be enough
[2:30:11] amount. This will obviously not be
[2:30:13] enough for the amount of rides the town
[2:30:15] is expecting and will cause more issues
[2:30:17] or have the provider request more
[2:30:19] compensation, provide more transit. So
[2:30:21] basically I was saying that here we are
[2:30:23] going for a lower ride annual ride
[2:30:26] pricing on the RFP which we're not
[2:30:27] expecting that at all. We're expecting
[2:30:29] much more. So it's going to be really
[2:30:31] interesting to see what kind of numbers
[2:30:32] would come up. uh in regards to you had
[2:30:35] mentioned a few times about potentially
[2:30:38] somebody else taking over uh as opposed
[2:30:41] to Argo.
[2:30:43] Who else does this right now? What other
[2:30:45] options are there? How many other
[2:30:47] companies do this? Because as far as I
[2:30:49] know, this was one of the first Argo was
[2:30:51] one of the first for communities for
[2:30:53] municipalities. We were one of the
[2:30:55] guinea pigs, one of the first guinea
[2:30:56] pigs to try it out. So, this RFP, is
[2:30:59] this being written for Argo or are there
[2:31:03] other options out there? I'm curious
[2:31:05] about that as well.
[2:31:15] Uh through you, Mayor Lidduk to
[2:31:17] councelor Farerini.
[2:31:21] Start with your last question.
[2:31:24] when we were putting this together
[2:31:27] um there are there were other vendors
[2:31:32] who claimed that they could replicate
[2:31:34] the service they could replicate what
[2:31:36] Argo is doing um
[2:31:40] but they were unable to bring the
[2:31:43] fullness of the picture to the table we
[2:31:45] believe that they've evolved since then
[2:31:48] um two definitely come to mind that I
[2:31:50] prefer not to name here um they've
[2:31:53] evolved since in and I believe that when
[2:31:57] we go to market we are likely to I'm
[2:32:00] confident that we're likely to get
[2:32:01] multiple proponents.
[2:32:05] What
[2:32:07] I will be guarded and and Vanessa miss
[2:32:09] morum will definitely ensure that I'm
[2:32:11] guarded on this one is not to set an RFP
[2:32:14] where there's really only one proponent
[2:32:17] that can meet it. Um, so it has to be
[2:32:20] performance-based aso as opposed to very
[2:32:24] specific criteria such as electric buses
[2:32:27] or you must have an app that does A, B,
[2:32:29] C, and D. No, it has to be this is what
[2:32:32] we want you to achieve. You have to
[2:32:34] demonstrate how you'll achieve that to
[2:32:36] us. Um, so it has to be a
[2:32:38] performance-based RFP and that's where
[2:32:40] we're going on this particular one.
[2:32:44] Mentioned 25 batches of 25,000.
[2:32:47] The RFP will not be for 25,000 rides but
[2:32:51] will be for multiple batches of 25,000
[2:32:54] depending or a combination thereof
[2:32:57] depending on the ridership total that
[2:33:01] we're targeting. So for example, if in
[2:33:03] year one we're targeting 150,000 rides
[2:33:06] per year, then we're paying you for
[2:33:08] batches of six times 100 six times
[2:33:12] 25,000 rights. So that's what it'll be.
[2:33:15] and that will iterate every year go up
[2:33:17] accordingly and that's the idea again it
[2:33:20] will be to the propon the proponent to
[2:33:22] tell us how they will achieve that
[2:33:24] within the service parameters that we
[2:33:27] will set um so that's where we're going
[2:33:30] on this
[2:33:32] you spoke about the algorithm um and the
[2:33:35] resources
[2:33:36] one of the things that I will commend
[2:33:40] Argo and being the current vendor
[2:33:44] iteration on algor Algorithm iteration
[2:33:46] on ideas to improve the system
[2:33:49] is literally in real time.
[2:33:53] P or trial uh an update today, it works,
[2:33:59] great. It needs tweaking, it it's
[2:34:01] tweaked tonight.
[2:34:04] Trial something today, it doesn't work,
[2:34:06] go back to square one tonight. It's that
[2:34:09] quick with them. Um, and those have over
[2:34:13] the the the four months, and keep in
[2:34:15] mind that we're at four months. We're at
[2:34:16] four months and two days into this,
[2:34:20] that is how we've been able to drive the
[2:34:22] efficiency to be able to open the app
[2:34:24] with the resourcing that we've got. Um,
[2:34:26] and achieve 427. Now, we've been doing
[2:34:29] 400 plus writes consistently
[2:34:32] since the app went open. Um, and I've
[2:34:36] been seeing the the weight times, the
[2:34:39] P95 weight time, the maximum weight time
[2:34:41] during the the peak demand periods
[2:34:44] actually come down slightly. And that
[2:34:46] shows that each individual tweak of the
[2:34:48] algorithm is paying dividends. Does all
[2:34:50] of it work? No. But it's trying the
[2:34:53] ideas to see what will work to drive
[2:34:55] efficiency and that and that's a
[2:34:56] consistent process.
[2:35:00] How do we get down the weight times to
[2:35:02] something s the peak time wait hour wait
[2:35:06] times um
[2:35:09] to something quite low that's resourcing
[2:35:12] and that is something that will require
[2:35:14] additional buses
[2:35:16] um as the demand grows as I said many
[2:35:19] times in the presentation
[2:35:21] we need help for that one and that's
[2:35:23] where we're at with the province um I am
[2:35:25] hopeful as I said staff at the province
[2:35:28] have been working with us which is we've
[2:35:31] applied for many many many
[2:35:34] funding programs. This is the one the
[2:35:36] only one in my memory where staff have
[2:35:39] work are working with us. So I would
[2:35:41] like to think that they see something
[2:35:43] there.
[2:35:45] Are we there? No, we're not. Do I expect
[2:35:47] to be there tomorrow? No, I don't. But
[2:35:50] we're working through it. I hope I
[2:35:52] didn't miss anything.
[2:35:55] But I would like to reiterate what you
[2:35:57] just said, too. It's only been four
[2:36:00] months.
[2:36:02] >> This hasn't been a one-year pilot
[2:36:04] » This hasn't been a one-year pilot
[2:36:04] project which we all agreed to go
[2:36:06] through. So to jump on a five-year now
[2:36:09] to go to procurement to get this
[2:36:11] happening within the next couple of
[2:36:12] months to me just not comfortable doing
[2:36:14] that yet.
[2:36:19] » Okay. I've got uh councelor Dehaney
[2:36:20] next. Myself and then councelor
[2:36:25] Thank you mayor. Thank you um deputy co
[2:36:28] for your presentation. I believe the
[2:36:31] writership has exceeded our expectation
[2:36:35] and of course as you mentioned over and
[2:36:38] over and over the challenges and of
[2:36:40] course with anything at all in life
[2:36:42] we're going to have challenges right but
[2:36:44] when come when we do have challenges we
[2:36:46] find ways to navigate those challenges
[2:36:49] and with the increase of ridership
[2:36:51] definitely we're going to definitely
[2:36:53] need more buses right on the street. We
[2:36:56] started with a million dollar um a
[2:37:00] million dollar um budget right which was
[2:37:02] the same as the older system but now the
[2:37:05] wrership has increased it is more the
[2:37:07] demand is greater now right so of course
[2:37:10] it's it's it's only common it's only
[2:37:13] common sense that we're definitely going
[2:37:15] to need more buses on the street so at
[2:37:18] this point coming with a re um for for
[2:37:22] evaluation
[2:37:24] right and how do we continue this pilot
[2:37:27] program is very timely. I am definitely
[2:37:30] going to support this and I want to
[2:37:33] encourage the residents, the writers to
[2:37:35] continue coming with your with with with
[2:37:38] the with your comments, your ideas, your
[2:37:42] suggestions and the challenges that
[2:37:44] you're facing so that you know we can
[2:37:47] improve on this system right because I'm
[2:37:50] telling you the wrership comparing to
[2:37:53] the older service that we had before it
[2:37:57] is greater. So what we're experiencing
[2:37:59] right now is normal. It is going to be
[2:38:02] normal because the wrership is greater.
[2:38:04] Are we going to sit in it or are we
[2:38:07] going to go to the drawing board and
[2:38:09] we're going to maybe get another bus on
[2:38:11] the street? We definitely going to need
[2:38:13] another bus. I don't know how we're
[2:38:14] going to do this mahish until April
[2:38:18] because of course with the buses that
[2:38:21] we're having right now, we're definitely
[2:38:22] going to have more issues. We're going
[2:38:24] to have more problems if we don't get
[2:38:26] another bus on it. Right. It has
[2:38:29] exceeded our expectation. People are
[2:38:30] loving the service and for the people
[2:38:33] definitely I'm advocating for the people
[2:38:35] because I've been hearing people they
[2:38:37] love the service. However, the glitches
[2:38:40] and again the glitches is because the
[2:38:43] ridership has exceeded the expectation.
[2:38:47] We did not expect that the ridership was
[2:38:49] going to be this great which is very
[2:38:51] good. Right. But I have one ask for you
[2:38:54] um deputy CEO. So I have residents
[2:38:57] reaching out that goes to Henderson Park
[2:39:01] and I believe the bus only stops at the
[2:39:04] Elden.
[2:39:05] I know right now there's no route around
[2:39:08] that area, but if the bus could even do
[2:39:10] one maybe one stop over the light
[2:39:13] because there's no stop light. There's
[2:39:15] no sidewalks I should say. Sorry. So if
[2:39:18] the bus could maybe just go over that
[2:39:20] one light, right? same route, but just
[2:39:23] bring the the children, the youth, the
[2:39:25] vulnerables, right, over that light cuz
[2:39:29] there's no sidewalk, right? During this
[2:39:32] pilot program, the residents will be
[2:39:35] very happy.
[2:39:37] So, if that's something that we can look
[2:39:39] into during this pilot program, we're
[2:39:42] not changing route. We're on the same
[2:39:44] route because I'm sure the bus has to
[2:39:46] maybe go over the light to make a
[2:39:48] U-turn, right, to continue its journey.
[2:39:51] So if we can maybe look at one stop over
[2:39:54] the light just to take them over the
[2:39:55] light and we're talking about the people
[2:39:58] the vulnerables the youth right people
[2:40:00] that depends on this service but I'm
[2:40:02] very much in support of the report and
[2:40:06] of course if the wrership is going to
[2:40:07] increase we definitely know that the
[2:40:09] budget has to be visited it does not
[2:40:11] take a brainer to know that right so the
[2:40:14] wrership has exceeded our expectation
[2:40:17] and now it's time to act because now
[2:40:20] Argo is doing better than what the other
[2:40:23] service was doing. The other service was
[2:40:25] doing great. It did its time. Now we see
[2:40:27] that there's more people that are
[2:40:28] depending on the public transit. Are we
[2:40:32] going backwards or are we going forward?
[2:40:34] Well, I believe we want to go forward
[2:40:36] and I believe the community want to go
[2:40:37] forward. So, if Argo can fix some of
[2:40:40] those glitches and again it's four
[2:40:42] months in, we need to hear the problems
[2:40:44] so that we can fix them, right? so that
[2:40:47] we can improve the service to better
[2:40:49] serve our BWG
[2:40:51] residents. Thank you again. Um, deputy
[2:40:54] CEO,
[2:40:57] » you want to respond to it all or
[2:41:01] » I've heard from councelor Jordano on
[2:41:04] Henderson. I've heard from councelor
[2:41:06] Dhanei. Um, I'll say to both of you,
[2:41:09] leave it with me to discuss it with
[2:41:12] Argo, to discuss it internally with our
[2:41:14] transit folks to see what solution we
[2:41:18] can come up with, shape or form, and
[2:41:20] I'll get back to both of you.
[2:41:23] Okay. Thank you. I I'm going to comment
[2:41:25] now if you don't mind, and I I um
[2:41:27] appreciate everybody's comments, and I I
[2:41:29] really want to say thank you to the
[2:41:30] residents that are actually sending in
[2:41:32] comments and suggestions to us. I think
[2:41:33] that's I think that helps us because you
[2:41:35] know what it is a pilot program and it
[2:41:37] is something that if they weren't ch
[2:41:40] making changes all the time. I mean I'd
[2:41:41] be afraid then technology and AI is
[2:41:44] advancing so fast that this is this is
[2:41:46] helping them and and I think the biggest
[2:41:48] one you made uh deput was the fact that
[2:41:50] they're doing it in real time and we're
[2:41:53] we're we're bettering the service we're
[2:41:54] increasing the service and I and I the
[2:41:56] ridership has increased and that is
[2:41:57] absolutely a supply and demand issue
[2:41:59] right there. I mean, there's no
[2:41:59] offensive bus. We had three buses
[2:42:01] before. We're up to four. I mean, we
[2:42:03] know we're going to need more. It's
[2:42:05] about setting this program up. I think
[2:42:06] this is I think this is an absolute gem
[2:42:08] for us. Uh a dollar a ride. I would love
[2:42:11] to see us uh have hit those targets
[2:42:13] where you have 420,000 rides a year. I
[2:42:16] would love to see those targets hit for
[2:42:18] sure. I think this is uh uh something
[2:42:20] that I'm going to absolutely 100%
[2:42:21] support because I think it is a benefit
[2:42:23] to our residents. It's it's a real
[2:42:24] affordability issue. It's a real quality
[2:42:26] of life issue for them and we will get
[2:42:28] this right with their feedback. We will
[2:42:30] get this right. Come to us directly.
[2:42:33] Don't use Facebook as your platform for
[2:42:35] telling us what we're doing wrong. Come
[2:42:37] to us directly. Please come to every
[2:42:38] counselor directly. Come to their
[2:42:40] accounts. Ask them to get this to the
[2:42:42] people that are that are making the
[2:42:43] changes. We'll do better. We'll
[2:42:45] absolutely do better because they are
[2:42:46] doing better every day. I'll tell you, I
[2:42:49] we we start off some issues, but we have
[2:42:51] cleaned up a lot of those issues and
[2:42:53] this program is moving a lot faster than
[2:42:54] thought. And I am absolutely 100% not
[2:42:57] afraid of those buses being out there in
[2:42:58] the winter. Tesla's been around for a
[2:43:00] long time. Electric batteries. We've had
[2:43:02] electric cars on the road for a long
[2:43:03] time. It's got nothing to do with the
[2:43:04] batteries failing in the winter. It's
[2:43:06] the driving ability of everybody in the
[2:43:08] winter. 50% of the drivers in Ontario
[2:43:10] for grant in the winter can't drive.
[2:43:13] It's ridiculous. But these buses are
[2:43:15] built. They've passed quality asurances
[2:43:18] to get into Canada to be sold in Canada.
[2:43:20] So, I'm I'm absolutely 100% uh in favor
[2:43:24] of them or supportive of them being a
[2:43:26] bus that can drive in the winter. I have
[2:43:28] no issue with that. If it's a blizzard
[2:43:29] or a snowstorm, you're getting off the
[2:43:31] road anyways. Most of most of the things
[2:43:33] are getting off the road anyways. So, I
[2:43:34] mean, we're not This is a system that I
[2:43:37] think will work. Uh the buses are
[2:43:38] manufactured in Turkey. The system
[2:43:41] worked because we had the bus
[2:43:43] manufacturer and the tech people get
[2:43:45] together and drive this program. That's
[2:43:47] where we got this program from. And I'm
[2:43:48] 100% support. I've seen I've seen it
[2:43:50] advance. So, I'm going to support this.
[2:43:53] We need to go out and get a 5-year
[2:43:54] contract. I think we can do that. There
[2:43:56] is there is other alternative suppliers
[2:43:57] out there. You're seeing it uh go
[2:43:59] forward. We're seeing this this pick up
[2:44:01] across the province. You you've seen
[2:44:03] other communities pick up on what we're
[2:44:04] doing. We have uh BMPon and a few other
[2:44:06] communities that are actually advancing
[2:44:08] this. I' I've got calls from many mayors
[2:44:10] throughout Ontario asking me, "How'd you
[2:44:11] do this?" We've got other providers
[2:44:14] coming in saying, "Hey, can you help us
[2:44:15] out?" So, I I'm in support of this. I
[2:44:17] think it's a great program and I and I
[2:44:19] commend everybody for giving us those
[2:44:20] comments because that's what makes us
[2:44:22] better. We know this is a pilot. We know
[2:44:24] there was going to be issues, but I'll
[2:44:26] tell you what, 57 complaints is not a
[2:44:29] huge number, but it's perfect to help us
[2:44:32] make this system better. And and I want
[2:44:33] to hear I want to hear that feedback. I
[2:44:35] want to see that feedback because we can
[2:44:36] do better. They are doing better. And I
[2:44:38] I commend your team, Mesh, all of our
[2:44:41] our staff, the uh Argo staff, wonderful
[2:44:45] working together. They're very
[2:44:46] responsive. So, we can do this and I'm
[2:44:48] I'm looking forward to this service
[2:44:49] becoming a full-time service and I I
[2:44:52] will support the report. So, I uh I'll
[2:44:54] turn it back to I got councelor Jano
[2:44:56] next. Anybody else?
[2:45:00] Yeah, I can't remember now, but I'd like
[2:45:01] to put a motion on to uh extend the
[2:45:04] pilot before we make a decision. I'm not
[2:45:06] sure if that's been tabled yet. Um also,
[2:45:08] a few more points. Um I think I I heard
[2:45:12] from the deput all the more reason to
[2:45:14] wait. Um you're saying that more and
[2:45:16] more uh other competitors or other
[2:45:19] companies are catching up. So why are we
[2:45:21] rushing to go to market with maybe in
[2:45:23] the next 6 months to a year there could
[2:45:25] be all kinds of options and different
[2:45:27] pricing and everything else. You never
[2:45:29] necessarily want to go first to market
[2:45:30] with anyone because you're not getting
[2:45:32] as competitiveness when it looks at the
[2:45:34] landscape of opportunities. So just as
[2:45:36] you were saying every single day things
[2:45:37] are changing and advancing. That's more
[2:45:39] of a reason to wait and and extend our
[2:45:42] pilot. um as a business person and I'm
[2:45:44] not uh speaking as um you know uh you
[2:45:48] know someone out of emotion it's it's
[2:45:49] based on strategic right so when you
[2:45:51] look at your business plan you you don't
[2:45:52] turn around and say well I'm going to
[2:45:54] pigeon hole myself into a potential
[2:45:55] option knowing that in six months to a
[2:45:57] year there could be a way you know
[2:45:59] larger landscape of opportunity um so
[2:46:03] the other thing too is we keep saying we
[2:46:05] need other buses and everything else
[2:46:06] yeah like I think this service is
[2:46:08] fantastic what's the cost what's the
[2:46:10] cost of those increased buses who's
[2:46:11] paying for those costs
[2:46:13] Right. To councelor Harper's point, why
[2:46:15] a dollar? Just because we want to make
[2:46:17] it affordable for everybody. Okay. Well,
[2:46:19] and then you mentioned about having, you
[2:46:21] know, those who could affordable will
[2:46:22] pay more. Well, isn't that a human
[2:46:23] rights tribunal nightmare right there
[2:46:26] all of a sudden saying, "Well, you're
[2:46:27] going to pay more because you can afford
[2:46:28] it, but no, you you don't deserve to pay
[2:46:30] as much as somebody else." Like, I I
[2:46:31] don't understand how that even comes
[2:46:32] into play. So, like again, these are all
[2:46:34] things that I'm hearing for the first
[2:46:36] time now, and I want more clarification
[2:46:38] on some of this information. Um, and I
[2:46:40] believe there was also some complaints
[2:46:41] about accessibility issues that these
[2:46:43] these buses did meet certain criteria,
[2:46:45] but we've been modifying the buses in
[2:46:47] order to accommodate that. Is that real
[2:46:49] or is that true? Uh, maybe you can just
[2:46:51] address that. And then lastly, uh, the
[2:46:53] mayor brought this up and it was
[2:46:54] something I didn't want to bring up
[2:46:55] today, but I'm going to say it now. Um,
[2:46:58] I I would be much more comfortable if
[2:47:00] this these were Canadian manufacturer
[2:47:01] vehicles and not from Turkey or
[2:47:04] somewhere else overseas. We are in a
[2:47:06] massive manufacturing war globally. We
[2:47:08] have the companies and the ability
[2:47:10] locally to build this and we're going
[2:47:13] across the world to get these things. I
[2:47:15] I you know, at the end of the day,
[2:47:17] they're just down the street. They're
[2:47:18] just up the street. We can we can get
[2:47:19] access to Canadian manufacturing.
[2:47:23] >> Okay. Thank you. I've got Council Kite
[2:47:26] » Okay. Thank you. I've got Council Kite
[2:47:26] next. And then actually, I don't have
[2:47:28] recommendation on the floor yet, do I?
[2:47:30] I've been debating that. So, okay. So,
[2:47:34] you you you said you wanted to put a
[2:47:36] recommendation on the floor.
[2:47:38] So madam
[2:47:43] » okay speak
[2:47:46] so I guess my question is
[2:47:50] uh we're all kind of yeah most some of
[2:47:53] us are worried about winter operation
[2:47:55] I'm not but uh that is the biggest
[2:47:59] concern I'm hearing here and also that
[2:48:01] the pilot hasn't really fully
[2:48:05] been
[2:48:07] gone through the stages yet. So
[2:48:10] I see in the on page 12 of your report
[2:48:14] or presentation the request for
[2:48:16] proposals
[2:48:18] to award the contract in November of
[2:48:22] 2025
[2:48:26] and but getting the getting the RFP done
[2:48:29] in October. So what I'm trying to say is
[2:48:33] we do need the pricing before budget
[2:48:35] time.
[2:48:37] So could we do all that but then can we
[2:48:40] find out if Argo can give us a two
[2:48:43] threemonth extension
[2:48:45] so that we don't award the contract
[2:48:47] until
[2:48:49] February
[2:48:51] and then the contract begins in say May
[2:48:57] and then we can get the process going
[2:49:00] for the RFP and get the pricing.
[2:49:02] But I don't know you can I don't think
[2:49:04] you can answer the question whether Argo
[2:49:06] was willing to give us a two or three
[2:49:08] month extension on the U
[2:49:12] pilot program
[2:49:17] » uh through you mayor Loop to councel
[2:49:19] Vike um the extension.
[2:49:22] Would you like to ask the question?
[2:49:26] >> Sorry
[2:49:28] » Sorry
[2:49:28] for I didn't hear you. Did you say that
[2:49:30] they will give us an extension?
[2:49:32] I didn't get there yet.
[2:49:35] Um, in terms of the extension, it's
[2:49:36] something I'm I'm sure that we can
[2:49:38] raise, not I'm sure, I know we can raise
[2:49:40] with them and have that conversation.
[2:49:43] What I will suggest is that any
[2:49:44] extension will need to give us enough
[2:49:48] time from the award to the start, I
[2:49:51] would recommend six months. Um, simply
[2:49:54] in the event that it's a different
[2:49:55] vendor who would need to replicate the
[2:49:58] systems that they've put in place. Um,
[2:50:00] so you'll need that six months um, in
[2:50:03] terms of that. So whatever extension
[2:50:04] we're looking at, work backwards plus my
[2:50:06] RFP time, you're looking at about nine,
[2:50:09] eight to nine months, right?
[2:50:11] >> So my follow-up question is, we don't
[2:50:13] » So my follow-up question is, we don't
[2:50:13] approve this tonight and ask for it to
[2:50:16] be deferred to or I guess our next
[2:50:18] meeting is in September. How does that
[2:50:21] affect
[2:50:23] the timing? Will we still be able
[2:50:26] September to make a decision?
[2:50:33] Um, Argo is here. We can put them put
[2:50:38] them on the spot. Um,
[2:50:42] No, it's if we're if we're looking at an
[2:50:44] extension if we're looking at an
[2:50:46] extension, is that to
[2:50:49] prove that the buses can work in the
[2:50:52] winter? Is that what we're looking for?
[2:50:55] >> No. No. Uh, some are. I'm not. But the
[2:50:59] » No. No. Uh, some are. I'm not. But the
[2:50:59] other request for an extension was to
[2:51:01] more fully test the pilot to get more
[2:51:05] confidence in in what's happening.
[2:51:08] But my question right now is if we we
[2:51:11] can't get those answers tonight, then
[2:51:14] can we delay the decision to September
[2:51:17] and still move forward properly?
[2:51:24] through you, Mayor Luk, to move forward
[2:51:27] and give any potential
[2:51:33] other vendor a fair shot at mobilizing.
[2:51:37] We'll need to move the end of pilot
[2:51:40] completion date. Otherwise, what we will
[2:51:42] end up stacking is in favor of Argo,
[2:51:44] I'll be honest. Um, and from a
[2:51:48] procurement perspective, that's not
[2:51:50] advisable.
[2:51:51] So, the first thing would be ask Argo,
[2:51:54] can we get an extension? How many months
[2:51:56] we're looking for? Um, based upon what
[2:51:58] I've heard around the table, you're
[2:51:59] probably looking, as you're right, at
[2:52:01] least a three-month extension, probably
[2:52:03] a little longer, and what would be the
[2:52:05] terms of that. Um, so that's the first
[2:52:07] part. Um, and then work it backwards and
[2:52:10] see what is it we can provide to that.
[2:52:13] So, that's something I can definitely
[2:52:14] raise. I will not suggest that based
[2:52:18] upon the full sum of the conversation
[2:52:20] that we're back in September. It's
[2:52:22] probably back later than that, right?
[2:52:25] So then we can Have you got time? So my
[2:52:28] concern is if you if we drive this
[2:52:30] extension and we don't change the buses,
[2:52:32] you're just going to build the
[2:52:33] complaints. So if we're driving
[2:52:36] extension, it means we're driving more
[2:52:37] cost. They've got to bring more buses
[2:52:39] in. I mean, you can't you can't work
[2:52:41] with the four buses. The ridership is
[2:52:43] going up. That's what's driving your
[2:52:44] complaints, that peak demand. We can't
[2:52:47] manage the system on four buses. The
[2:52:49] idea is we need to get our bus services
[2:52:50] up. So, I'm I'm concerned if we drive an
[2:52:53] extension now. So, that's a question.
[2:52:55] So, can we defer this? Is this something
[2:52:58] that we can defer and move to answer
[2:53:01] those questions through that extension?
[2:53:05] Um, I would put one more risk out there,
[2:53:08] Mr. Mayor. What happens if Argo says no?
[2:53:13] then we are in a situation where it's
[2:53:15] very tight. We'll h handicap the next
[2:53:19] proponent
[2:53:20] um in terms of their mobilization and
[2:53:23] that's the challenge. Um
[2:53:28] in terms of we've all agreed that on
[2:53:32] demand transit shows that it has the
[2:53:34] benefit of what we thought it would.
[2:53:38] Couple of things. One is
[2:53:42] there's nothing that's guaranteeing that
[2:53:43] it will be hard. There's nothing that's
[2:53:44] guaranteeing that it will be these
[2:53:46] electric buses. It could be something
[2:53:49] different, right? And that's where we
[2:53:51] need the conversation needs to be. The
[2:53:55] way that the manager of procurement and
[2:53:57] I have been talking about the RFP, it
[2:54:00] has to be performance-based.
[2:54:03] We're not specking you need x number of
[2:54:05] buses and no it's for them to figure
[2:54:09] that out. Whoever can be efficient on
[2:54:12] if we've got a concern that the buses
[2:54:14] must be able to to work in x centimeters
[2:54:17] of snow. That's a performance criteria.
[2:54:19] We put that into the RFP.
[2:54:22] That's what that's the that's the
[2:54:23] solution I would recommend. Um
[2:54:28] we want council Jordano mentioned we
[2:54:31] wanted uh the preferences for buses
[2:54:33] manufactured here that can be in the or
[2:54:35] finished here that can be in the RFP and
[2:54:40] these buses are finished here. So
[2:54:42] they've got manufactured content in
[2:54:43] Canada. um all all all those issues can
[2:54:47] be put as performance in the RFP and
[2:54:49] that's where we're going with um all of
[2:54:52] the concerns raised all of the the
[2:54:54] challenges um that you've that you have
[2:54:57] in your mind can be reflected in a
[2:55:00] performance-based RFP today.
[2:55:04] >> Okay, I've got councelor Dehaney next.
[2:55:12] You're on mute again. And then I want to
[2:55:13] put a recommendation on the floor. I got
[2:55:14] to put the recommendation from the
[2:55:16] report on the floor so we can
[2:55:20] >> Sorry.
[2:55:21] » Sorry.
[2:55:21] >> We're muted.
[2:55:22] » We're muted.
[2:55:22] >> Okay. So, um, if we're going to extend
[2:55:25] » Okay. So, um, if we're going to extend
[2:55:26] the pilot program and if Argo say yes or
[2:55:30] no, um, to what mayor mentioned, we
[2:55:33] definitely going to need another bus on
[2:55:36] the on the road for sure. But again, it
[2:55:38] all depends on Argo. So, Mahes, is Argo
[2:55:41] there in the house tonight?
[2:55:44] I believe you said that they're here.
[2:55:46] Can they come forward and maybe answer
[2:55:48] to some of the questions like will they
[2:55:50] be okay to the pilot program or would
[2:55:53] they need more time to think about it?
[2:55:56] And if they do agree, say tonight, and
[2:55:58] said yes, we can consider the pilot
[2:56:01] program being extended, will they be
[2:56:03] open to, and again,
[2:56:05] >> point of order? I don't think that's
[2:56:06] » point of order? I don't think that's
[2:56:06] appropriate. I don't think we should be
[2:56:08] asking to do business negotiations at a
[2:56:10] council table during a council meeting.
[2:56:13] >> Excuse me.
[2:56:13] » Excuse me.
[2:56:13] >> It's it's un excuse. It's a point it's a
[2:56:15] » It's it's un excuse. It's a point it's a
[2:56:15] point of order. For
[2:56:16] >> a second, please interrupt me. Thank
[2:56:18] » a second, please interrupt me. Thank
[2:56:18] you.
[2:56:19] >> Councelor Dehaney and councelor
[2:56:20] » Councelor Dehaney and councelor
[2:56:20] Gerardano. I'm the chair. I will I will
[2:56:22] take over this. Yes, you can't you can't
[2:56:25] negotiate something at the table right
[2:56:27] now.
[2:56:27] >> One second. I am not one second, mayor.
[2:56:29] » One second. I am not one second, mayor.
[2:56:29] Please and thank you. I'm asking a
[2:56:32] question and I would appreciate if
[2:56:34] persons would listen keenly before
[2:56:37] allowing their
[2:56:39] >> Please ask the question.
[2:56:40] » Please ask the question.
[2:56:40] >> I did ask my question, mayor. Can you
[2:56:42] » I did ask my question, mayor. Can you
[2:56:42] allow me to speak? I was elected just
[2:56:45] like everyone else to represent the
[2:56:47] people of Bradford. Whether you like me
[2:56:50] or not, the people do. That's why I'm
[2:56:52] here. And I have the fair choice and
[2:56:55] right like everyone else to speak as
[2:56:58] lengthy as I choose just as everyone
[2:57:00] else. So let me go back to my question
[2:57:03] before I was interrupted. Thank you. So
[2:57:06] deputy CEO
[2:57:08] you said that Argo was in the house.
[2:57:12] If Argo is okay to come forward, if they
[2:57:16] maybe need more time to answer the
[2:57:19] questions that we're asking, will they
[2:57:21] be open to let us know? Okay. Will they
[2:57:25] be able to provide an extra bus or will
[2:57:28] they be open to the exp extension of the
[2:57:32] pilot program, please? That's my
[2:57:34] question before I was rudely
[2:57:36] interrupted. Thank you. I
[2:57:37] >> have uh our manager procurement come up
[2:57:39] » have uh our manager procurement come up
[2:57:39] and speak to this.
[2:57:49] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for your
[2:57:51] question, councelor Dhaney. Um, at this
[2:57:53] time, we are unable to ask Argo to come
[2:57:55] forward to have any discussion with
[2:57:57] respect to the contract. This is
[2:57:59] confidential discussions that we would
[2:58:00] be having offline and Mahesh and I will
[2:58:04] take that on if that is council's desire
[2:58:06] after this meeting.
[2:58:09] Thank you so much, Vanessa, for
[2:58:10] clarifying my question. Thank you. Thank
[2:58:12] you, mayor.
[2:58:14] >> Yes. Thank you. All right. I've got to
[2:58:16] » Yes. Thank you. All right. I've got to
[2:58:16] councelor Scott for the last comment
[2:58:17] before we move on. Thanks for your
[2:58:19] worship. I just want to go back.
[2:58:22] I hear everyone's comments and the
[2:58:25] report itself doesn't outline the RFP
[2:58:28] timeline the way the slideshow
[2:58:30] presentation does, but the initial
[2:58:33] report that we endorsed when we made the
[2:58:36] switch to on demand transit said there
[2:58:40] would be a request for proposals in Q3
[2:58:42] 2025 to procure a multi-year service
[2:58:44] provider to enable a shift to permanent
[2:58:46] ondemand transit from April 1st, 2026.
[2:58:50] So,
[2:58:51] we're not being asked to do anything
[2:58:53] tonight that we didn't contemplate doing
[2:58:56] when we launched this pilot. The only
[2:58:58] concern is whether we've had enough time
[2:58:59] of the pilot rolling out to make an
[2:59:02] informed decision,
[2:59:05] which is a fair comment, but we're not
[2:59:07] being asked to make a decision to award
[2:59:10] the contract
[2:59:12] until the end of this year. So, we have
[2:59:14] another three or four months until we're
[2:59:17] being asked to make a decision. All
[2:59:18] we're being asked to do tonight is
[2:59:20] launch the RFP process. So hopefully
[2:59:23] that gives some people some assurance.
[2:59:26] We we don't have a gun to our head, so
[2:59:28] to speak, tonight. We're just being
[2:59:29] asked to take the next stage of a
[2:59:31] process that we control and would still
[2:59:33] make a final decision on in keeping with
[2:59:36] the timeline that was outlined when we
[2:59:38] first launched the pilot.
[2:59:41] >> We have Frank move that we approve the
[2:59:45] » We have Frank move that we approve the
[2:59:45] recommendation.
[2:59:48] It hasn't been seconded. So,
[2:59:51] >> uh,
[2:59:54] » uh,
[2:59:54] his motion was to What was your motion
[2:59:57] again?
[2:59:59] >> So, I need I need the clerk to rule
[3:00:00] » So, I need I need the clerk to rule
[3:00:00] here. Please rule first.
[3:00:05] » We have not put the motion um from the
[3:00:08] agenda, the recommendation of the report
[3:00:09] onto the floor yet. So, we'll do that
[3:00:11] first and then amendments can come from
[3:00:13] there.
[3:00:16] Also,
[3:00:17] >> okay,
[3:00:17] » okay,
[3:00:17] >> hold on. Point of order,
[3:00:19] » hold on. Point of order,
[3:00:19] >> mayor, for clarification. You asked
[3:00:21] » mayor, for clarification. You asked
[3:00:21] councelor Jordano to let councelor
[3:00:24] speak and then you would go back to his
[3:00:25] recommendation. You have not done that.
[3:00:28] I I wanted to clar clarify with the
[3:00:30] clerk. The clerk has clarified how it
[3:00:32] works. We put the motion on the floor.
[3:00:34] If now I'll go back to councelor Jordano
[3:00:35] if he wants to amend it. It's moved and
[3:00:37] seconded. I'm going back to him for an
[3:00:39] amendment if you'd like. So, councelor
[3:00:41] Jordano, would you like to amend it?
[3:00:43] I'd like to amend it to ask staff to ask
[3:00:46] for a um six-month extension on the
[3:00:51] pilot program.
[3:00:53] Therefore, giving us some time I I
[3:00:55] believe it would be would that be
[3:00:57] December instead of September for us to
[3:00:59] start the RFQ process. But I want to do
[3:01:02] it in one year from the day that we
[3:01:05] actually open it up to the actual town.
[3:01:07] So, what date was that? Can you remind
[3:01:09] me?
[3:01:14] through you to um council Jano opening
[3:01:17] the app.
[3:01:18] >> I believe it was July
[3:01:22] » I believe it was July
[3:01:22] 7th or
[3:01:24] so, you know, I would like to be going
[3:01:26] to RFQ probably sometime in the
[3:01:28] springtime, make a decision one year
[3:01:31] after the pilot has actually been
[3:01:32] available to the community. So you guys
[3:01:35] are going to have to work the math back
[3:01:36] on when what what what that extension
[3:01:38] looks like. But that's something that
[3:01:39] I'd like to defer this until we get
[3:01:41] answers back about the extension of
[3:01:43] this. Um well, you can ask for it and
[3:01:47] then all of a sudden it doesn't come
[3:01:48] back. We have to unmothball our uh
[3:01:50] >> are you putting an amendment or
[3:01:53] » are you putting an amendment or
[3:01:53] >> Okay, I'll put the amendment. I'll put
[3:01:54] » Okay, I'll put the amendment. I'll put
[3:01:54] the amendment. So we're gonna we're
[3:01:55] gonna ask for extension. So then
[3:01:56] therefore the procurement takes place
[3:01:58] one year from the date that it was
[3:01:59] available to the public.
[3:02:03] Okay. Seconded. So it's amendment that
[3:02:07] it is procurement is one year from July
[3:02:11] 7th. That was the date, right?
[3:02:15] >> Hey,
[3:02:17] » Hey,
[3:02:17] >> I know it's a totally different
[3:02:18] » I know it's a totally different
[3:02:18] resolution, but
[3:02:20] >> let's just get it on the floor and get
[3:02:21] » let's just get it on the floor and get
[3:02:21] it over with and we can move on to the
[3:02:22] resol recommendation. So we have a mover
[3:02:24] and a seconder. Further comments on
[3:02:26] that?
[3:02:27] Okay, seeing none, do you want to vote
[3:02:29] on that amendment? All in for the All in
[3:02:32] support of the amendment.
[3:02:34] One, two, three, four. Okay. Opposed.
[3:02:39] >> Mayor, I don't know what I am agreeing
[3:02:42] » Mayor, I don't know what I am agreeing
[3:02:42] to.
[3:02:43] >> He put an amendment. He put a a a new
[3:02:46] » He put an amendment. He put a a a new
[3:02:46] motion on the floor to make an extension
[3:02:48] and the to do the uh RFQ or the RFP 12
[3:02:53] months later. So, if you're in support
[3:02:55] of this recommendation,
[3:02:58] the one on the table, he's amending it.
[3:03:00] the one on the on the report he's
[3:03:01] amended.
[3:03:04] >> It's kind of difficult to since what
[3:03:06] » It's kind of difficult to since what
[3:03:06] what Vanessa mentioned just now that we
[3:03:09] cannot do anything or say anything. Argo
[3:03:11] cannot speak on anything. So I find it
[3:03:15] very weird for me to I don't even know
[3:03:16] what to agree on.
[3:03:18] >> Okay. So
[3:03:18] » Okay. So
[3:03:18] >> I'm out of it.
[3:03:19] » I'm out of it.
[3:03:20] >> You're abstaining from the vote. Thank
[3:03:21] » You're abstaining from the vote. Thank
[3:03:21] you.
[3:03:21] >> I don't know what this is.
[3:03:23] » I don't know what this is.
[3:03:23] >> Thank you. So that's defeated.
[3:03:28] So the motion on the floor is and I'll
[3:03:29] read it and it was moved by reccomation
[3:03:32] of staff report DCAO 2025-8 titled
[3:03:35] update on Bradford Glenbury demand
[3:03:36] transit be received for information and
[3:03:38] the council endorse the staff plan to
[3:03:40] procure a long-term service provider for
[3:03:42] its ondemand transit service moved by
[3:03:45] and it was moved by council kite
[3:03:47] seconded by deputy mayor that's on the
[3:03:49] floor now all right
[3:03:51] >> mayor I got a point of order
[3:03:52] » mayor I got a point of order
[3:03:52] >> point of order
[3:03:53] » point of order
[3:03:53] >> I'd like to recommend the deferral which
[3:03:55] » I'd like to recommend the deferral which
[3:03:55] superseds es the recommendation.
[3:03:59] Okay. You have a deferral. Does it
[3:04:01] supersede the recommendation? He's
[3:04:03] asking for a deferral. Okay.
[3:04:06] >> No, seriously. A deferral pushes it off
[3:04:10] » No, seriously. A deferral pushes it off
[3:04:10] indefinitely. A referral sends it back
[3:04:11] to staff seeking more information to
[3:04:13] come back at a specific time.
[3:04:23] » Okay. So, what are we putting on the
[3:04:24] floor? A deferral or referral?
[3:04:27] >> Referral doesn't have the same
[3:04:28] » Referral doesn't have the same
[3:04:28] superseding as the deferral.
[3:04:29] >> No, it's debatable.
[3:04:30] » No, it's debatable.
[3:04:30] >> It's debatable.
[3:04:32] » It's debatable.
[3:04:32] That's okay. You can put referral on.
[3:04:34] Have you got
[3:04:34] >> I'm okay with referral, too. But like as
[3:04:38] » I'm okay with referral, too. But like as
[3:04:38] long as we get the answers quickly
[3:04:39] because I liked what councelor Vai was
[3:04:41] talking about getting the decisions. If
[3:04:43] we know that, then it basically it only
[3:04:46] will jump the timelines only shortly
[3:04:48] because I know the connections that the
[3:04:50] deputy CEO has with Argo
[3:04:52] >> will get us the answers we need. And I'm
[3:04:54] » will get us the answers we need. And I'm
[3:04:54] okay with that. And if we have that, you
[3:04:57] know what? It's not like in saying I
[3:04:59] just really would want the winter stuff,
[3:05:01] but like we know we're probably going to
[3:05:03] be going towards this, but we just want
[3:05:04] to make sure that we do it right.
[3:05:06] Referral would make that happen.
[3:05:07] >> We have a referral. Do we have a
[3:05:08] » We have a referral. Do we have a
[3:05:08] seconder for that? Right there. Okay.
[3:05:11] Now, we can debate that. We're good.
[3:05:15] Councelor Scott,
[3:05:16] >> I will support a referral if we specify
[3:05:18] » I will support a referral if we specify
[3:05:18] in the motion that it comes back
[3:05:21] in September with the questions asked
[3:05:24] tonight
[3:05:28] contemplate or responded to in that
[3:05:29] report. So, a referral motion, you can
[3:05:31] specify the time you want it to come
[3:05:33] back and the conditions under which you
[3:05:34] want it to come back and hopefully the
[3:05:36] mover and secondary agree with that
[3:05:38] timing and that condition.
[3:05:44] Mayor, I agree to those conditions.
[3:05:46] Obviously, September is a good timeline.
[3:05:47] I think u you know, Council K said that
[3:05:50] well. September will give us those
[3:05:51] answers and I think we'll have to make a
[3:05:53] hard choice, but I believe it may be
[3:05:55] give the opportunity to get that proof
[3:05:57] that we were looking for as well. He
[3:05:58] said he had it, so maybe I'll give time
[3:06:00] to give us that as well and satisfy the
[3:06:02] need of that information.
[3:06:04] >> Okay, the referral has come back in
[3:06:05] » Okay, the referral has come back in
[3:06:05] September with some answers to those
[3:06:07] questions. Deputy CEO, you go ahead
[3:06:09] comment. A quick clarity
[3:06:13] question is around winter operation.
[3:06:22] » I'm going to go to the deputy uh mayor
[3:06:24] and then to councelor Trano and that's
[3:06:26] it. Vote. This doesn't seem like it's
[3:06:29] clear enough. I hear questions around
[3:06:32] winter maintenance. Then I hear
[3:06:34] everything we've been discussing for
[3:06:37] last hour and a half. what is that
[3:06:40] everything that that's that's not clear
[3:06:42] and if we don't provide clear direction
[3:06:45] they can't give us the accurate
[3:06:46] information. So let's be clear what
[3:06:49] we're asking then if they can do it by
[3:06:52] next September they can let us know
[3:06:54] staff can let us know otherwise we're
[3:06:56] just going in circles.
[3:07:00] Okay Jordano
[3:07:04] yeah that's what I was going to say. So
[3:07:05] I it's not winter is only one of the ma
[3:07:07] major things that we discussed today. So
[3:07:10] um to your point deputy mayor I think
[3:07:12] some of the other takeaways was number
[3:07:13] one how can you maximize your
[3:07:15] procurement with vendors that are just
[3:07:18] um updating their systems now and
[3:07:20] everything else. So obviously we wanted
[3:07:22] to extend the timeline as much as
[3:07:24] possible to give those other
[3:07:25] opportunities to come on board. Number
[3:07:27] two there was the ability of um the
[3:07:31] guarantee that we were saying. So, how
[3:07:32] does that
[3:07:34] Yeah, funding is another one. And then
[3:07:37] apparently we we have to put another bus
[3:07:39] on the road or multiple buses. I want to
[3:07:42] know what the cost is. And then there's
[3:07:44] another discussion about a dollar a ride
[3:07:46] versus $3 a ride versus whatever it is.
[3:07:48] Well, what does that look like? Well, we
[3:07:50] don't have any pricing modeling on what
[3:07:51] does this look like on for us to roll
[3:07:53] this this transit system out. Yeah,
[3:07:55] there's talks about people want to give
[3:07:56] away the transit for free. Well, what
[3:07:57] does that cost taxpayers? I don't have
[3:07:59] any of that information. And you guys
[3:08:00] want to go into procurement and secure
[3:08:02] something for the next 5 years based on
[3:08:04] what? Like I I need to see financial
[3:08:06] modeling too. Like we can't just make
[3:08:08] these decisions and say yeah let's go to
[3:08:10] go to market. Don't forget we still have
[3:08:12] our buses on mothballs right now. So you
[3:08:14] know we always have an option B or C in
[3:08:16] the works and maybe we should have an
[3:08:18] option B or C that comes to the table.
[3:08:20] We don't have an if and what sit uh
[3:08:21] solution right now and I get it but you
[3:08:24] know maybe we should have a bit of a
[3:08:25] wargaming situation where it comes to
[3:08:26] like okay this is one option for on
[3:08:28] demand or if we don't do a full on
[3:08:29] demand system we have a a subsidized on
[3:08:31] demand system or we have a we just have
[3:08:33] one and done that's it. So those are
[3:08:35] some of the things that were being
[3:08:36] discussed today. Um, there's also a few
[3:08:38] other things that I don't think we got
[3:08:39] full answers on, like for example, are
[3:08:41] these buses fully accessible, right? Or
[3:08:44] have they meet all the accessibility
[3:08:45] criteria that's required for a transit
[3:08:47] system like they have in Toronto and
[3:08:48] some of those other ones? Um, I've heard
[3:08:51] some yes or we've made modifications in
[3:08:53] the short term. Like I don't I didn't
[3:08:54] get answers on that yet. So, that's
[3:08:55] another answer that I would like to
[3:08:56] have. And then the last one, um, hold
[3:09:00] on. I'm just trying to scroll through
[3:09:01] all these notes here. Oh yeah, the
[3:09:02] Canadian manufacturing ability. Right.
[3:09:03] When you say finished, I could slap a
[3:09:05] sticker on, screw in a little uh digital
[3:09:07] box and say it's assembled in Canada. I
[3:09:09] want to know how much percentage of the
[3:09:11] vehicle is manufactured in Canada in the
[3:09:13] procurement process as well for
[3:09:15] consideration.
[3:09:20] Okay. Anybody else want anything else
[3:09:22] about this in referral? Did we miss
[3:09:24] anything?
[3:09:27] Okay. So, it's a a referral.
[3:09:32] Yeah.
[3:09:34] Mr. Mayor, based upon those points
[3:09:37] raised, if all of those are to be
[3:09:39] addressed,
[3:09:40] um that we will not be able to make
[3:09:43] September. I'll tell you that.
[3:09:45] >> No, I was pretty sure you weren't.
[3:09:47] » No, I was pretty sure you weren't.
[3:09:47] That's why I didn't I didn't think I had
[3:09:48] to explain it. Okay, the referral's on
[3:09:50] the table. So, all in favor of the
[3:09:53] referral back to staff, all in favor of
[3:09:57] the referral back to staff.
[3:09:59] >> It Well, it's September. We we have
[3:10:01] » It Well, it's September. We we have
[3:10:01] September with all those September with
[3:10:03] all those requests. That was what they
[3:10:05] wanted. We're not waiting September with
[3:10:06] all those issues. In favor of the
[3:10:08] referral,
[3:10:11] >> I vote yes or no.
[3:10:17] » Okay. Two in favor. Those opposed
[3:10:21] carried. Okay. Back to the
[3:10:24] recommendation on the floor. We have a
[3:10:26] mover to second. All in favor of the
[3:10:29] recommendation.
[3:10:31] One, two, three. Where are we? Four,
[3:10:34] five.
[3:10:36] Opposed.
[3:10:38] 1 2 3 4 carried. Thank you.
[3:10:45] Okay, council. Uh, it's 10 after 10.
[3:10:48] We're not going to get through this
[3:10:50] agenda tonight, I don't think. If you
[3:10:53] guys want to go past midnight,
[3:10:55] >> can you can you jump to the bonhead one
[3:10:57] » can you can you jump to the bonhead one
[3:10:57] just because of the people the residents
[3:10:59] who are here for that one?
[3:11:01] >> That's at number four.
[3:11:03] » That's at number four.
[3:11:03] >> We can get there in a second if you
[3:11:04] » We can get there in a second if you
[3:11:04] want. I don't think this servicing
[3:11:06] agreement is a big issue.
[3:11:09] I was just going to say if you wanted a
[3:11:10] break, bathroom break,
[3:11:14] » so I'll go. We didn't readjust the
[3:11:15] schedule. So,
[3:11:18] >> okay. 93. Let's do 93. Request for
[3:11:20] » okay. 93. Let's do 93. Request for
[3:11:20] pre-ervice agreement. I've got a
[3:11:22] recommendation that report NG2025-10
[3:11:24] titled request for pre-ervice agreement
[3:11:26] low parcel external sanitary sanitary be
[3:11:29] received foration and the necessary by
[3:11:31] representative council to authorize the
[3:11:32] mayor and clerk to enter into a
[3:11:33] pres-erviceing agreement mover and a
[3:11:35] second or puts on the floor please moved
[3:11:37] by deputy mayor seconded by councelor
[3:11:38] Perageni questions and concerns with
[3:11:40] this one it's a good one it's in our uh
[3:11:43] southern quadrant it's hoping that we
[3:11:46] get some servicing done then get the
[3:11:47] rest of that uh uh servicing up through
[3:11:49] our employment lands
[3:11:51] Okay, no questions or concerns. All in
[3:11:53] favor carried. Thank you. Okay. 9.4.
[3:11:57] That's the uh Bonnet Heritage.
[3:12:00] We will do that and then we'll take a
[3:12:02] break after if that's okay with
[3:12:03] everyone. Okay. Bonnet Heritage
[3:12:05] Conservation District recommendation PLN
[3:12:07] 2025-37. I have a recommendation that
[3:12:09] PLN 202537
[3:12:12] be received and that accordance with
[3:12:13] section 40 41 of the Ontario Heritage
[3:12:16] Act, council designate by bylaw the area
[3:12:19] shown in attachment 71 appended to
[3:12:22] report PLN 2025-37
[3:12:25] as the Bonhead heritage conservation
[3:12:27] district and the council adopt the uh by
[3:12:30] bylaw the Bonhead heritage conservation
[3:12:32] district plan as as the district plan
[3:12:34] for Bonhead heritage conservation
[3:12:36] district in accordance with section 411
[3:12:38] of the Ontario Heritage Act attached as
[3:12:41] attachment 72 appended to report PLN
[3:12:44] 2025-37
[3:12:46] and the council approve a heritage
[3:12:48] permit process uh for parts four and
[3:12:50] five designated uh properties in
[3:12:53] Bradford Westbury with an effective date
[3:12:56] of January 1st 2026
[3:12:59] moved by councelor seconded by
[3:13:01] councelor Scott. Question concerns
[3:13:09] We got it. We okay with the secondary?
[3:13:11] Okay. Question concerns with this. I'm
[3:13:13] going to go to councelor Harper has his
[3:13:14] hand up first and councelor Scott.
[3:13:17] >> Thanks, mayor. I while I like the
[3:13:20] » Thanks, mayor. I while I like the
[3:13:20] proposal that marks a significant step
[3:13:22] in uh formally recognizing protecting
[3:13:25] the heritage fabric of Bond Head. Um,
[3:13:29] I'd hope that the the HCD plan, if
[3:13:31] passed, it comes with the right supports
[3:13:34] in place for our residents. Um, being in
[3:13:38] in an area that does have um some
[3:13:40] heritage as well in W six, the downtown
[3:13:43] core, I hope that it just balances a lot
[3:13:45] of the goals of preservation with
[3:13:47] homeowner rights, affordability, and
[3:13:49] clarity of the implementation. My key
[3:13:52] concerns are around the administrative
[3:13:53] burden part of that or potential cost to
[3:13:55] residents and then effect flexibility to
[3:13:58] accommodate the evolving housing needs.
[3:14:00] So
[3:14:02] I don't know exactly what the plan sorry
[3:14:04] I do know what the plan entails and but
[3:14:06] I hope that it does have the right
[3:14:07] supports in place for our residents.
[3:14:09] That's my comments.
[3:14:12] >> Thank you uh counc.
[3:14:15] » Thank you uh counc.
[3:14:15] Well, thank you to the consultant team,
[3:14:17] town staff, especially uh Thomas Dystra
[3:14:20] and the heritage advisory committee this
[3:14:22] term, last term, and I think the term
[3:14:23] before for their work on this
[3:14:24] initiative. This is a long time coming.
[3:14:27] It's the result of, I think, careful
[3:14:29] planning, years of consultation, and a
[3:14:31] lot of community engagement over those
[3:14:33] years. It's going to preserve the
[3:14:35] character and charm of the village of
[3:14:37] Bond Head. Even as the village evolves,
[3:14:39] it provides tools to guide change and to
[3:14:41] ensure the story of this village
[3:14:43] continues to be visible and valued. I
[3:14:46] want to especially acknowledge the work
[3:14:48] of the heritage committee under
[3:14:48] councelor Bkite's chairmanship. I
[3:14:50] believe we've done more this term than
[3:14:53] practically ever before to protect
[3:14:55] heritage buildings and recognize our
[3:14:57] heritage. Uh to councelor Harper's
[3:14:59] questions, there are some very
[3:15:01] straightforward triaged processes in
[3:15:04] this plan. there's the opportunity for
[3:15:06] property tax abatement uh for designated
[3:15:09] heritage properties and uh I think it
[3:15:11] puts a very good package together to
[3:15:14] preserve the the character of the
[3:15:15] village and ultimately it's about more
[3:15:17] than the buildings. It's about
[3:15:18] storytelling across generations, our
[3:15:20] identity and keeping a sense of place
[3:15:23] even as we grow. So I'm I'm really happy
[3:15:25] to see this hopefully coming to fruition
[3:15:27] tonight.
[3:15:29] >> Thank you. Further comments? Councelor
[3:15:31] » Thank you. Further comments? Councelor
[3:15:31] Ferdini next.
[3:15:33] >> Thank you. Um, yeah, this started back
[3:15:35] » Thank you. Um, yeah, this started back
[3:15:36] in 2018, so it's been a long time coming
[3:15:38] that we've had discussions with the
[3:15:40] public and constantly going over
[3:15:42] presentations through different
[3:15:44] committees and such. So, it's great to
[3:15:45] finally see this come to us in person.
[3:15:48] Um,
[3:15:50] Bond Head is a gem. Um, Miss Usher was
[3:15:54] up here and she was talking about it. We
[3:15:56] all we we know that there's such a um
[3:16:00] such an untapped resource in that in
[3:16:02] that hamlet and with the uh with the
[3:16:04] heritage designation this this place
[3:16:07] could be well sorry it is but I mean
[3:16:11] uh be even more beautiful. Dr. Chambers
[3:16:14] had already me always mentioned about
[3:16:16] people coming to visit Bonhead always
[3:16:18] talked about them coming to visit
[3:16:20] Bonhead. And what this does is uh if we
[3:16:23] keep that if we keep that feel and we
[3:16:26] keep that aspect to what Bonhead
[3:16:28] actually is, it's only just going to get
[3:16:29] bigger and better.
[3:16:33] >> Thank you. I've got Council Kite next.
[3:16:35] » Thank you. I've got Council Kite next.
[3:16:35] >> Yeah, I'd really like to thank all the
[3:16:38] » Yeah, I'd really like to thank all the
[3:16:38] work that the staff put in on this,
[3:16:40] Thomas Daart, and uh everyone else and
[3:16:43] even the previous planner that worked on
[3:16:45] it. I can't quite
[3:16:46] >> remember.
[3:16:51] Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's been a it's
[3:16:54] been a long time coming. I we we this
[3:16:58] plan is on the light side, especially
[3:17:00] for the supporting properties that
[3:17:02] aren't historical. There's very little
[3:17:05] that they have to do differently
[3:17:09] except for that they can't just tear
[3:17:11] their building down and put some art
[3:17:12] deco, some thing that doesn't blend in
[3:17:15] with the with the heritage district. And
[3:17:18] it's also going to put some onus on new
[3:17:22] development against those homes. They
[3:17:24] can't go like five stories high. So,
[3:17:26] it's going to offer a lot of protection
[3:17:28] and not put a lot of onus on the
[3:17:31] existing residents that are in the
[3:17:33] district. So, it's it's I think it's a
[3:17:35] win-win and uh yeah, I hope we approve
[3:17:38] it tonight.
[3:17:41] Further comments uh Deputy Mayor Sandu.
[3:17:44] >> Thank you, Worship. Um I'm very happy to
[3:17:47] » Thank you, Worship. Um I'm very happy to
[3:17:47] support this. As others mentioned, this
[3:17:50] has been long time coming. I remember it
[3:17:53] was about 20 years ago, we were doing
[3:17:55] fundraising for William Osler Hospital
[3:17:56] in Bmpton. And some of the staff did not
[3:17:59] even know where the home place was. And
[3:18:03] when I told them um they said, "Oh,
[3:18:06] we're going to take a drive up there and
[3:18:08] see. This is a gym." You said it
[3:18:10] rightfully. And Miss Usher, when you
[3:18:13] mentioned the parade, I still remember
[3:18:15] that. And I have those pictures here.
[3:18:17] This is one of my best pictures, I
[3:18:20] think, as a sheriff
[3:18:22] when we dressed up uh as as time period
[3:18:27] and and I still have pictures from that
[3:18:29] parade and it was the best parade and
[3:18:31] all the hard work that the committee did
[3:18:34] and not to mention the the work about
[3:18:36] this. Many residents contributed. Dr.
[3:18:40] Chambers who's now with us, he was
[3:18:42] spearheading it and some of our staff,
[3:18:46] they they did an excellent job and I'm
[3:18:48] very thankful and I'm hopeful that this
[3:18:49] will get passed today and we get the
[3:18:52] work beginning.
[3:18:55] » Council, as everybody mentioned, a lot
[3:18:58] of work, a lot of history, and and I'm
[3:19:00] glad that this is going to come to
[3:19:02] tuition and uh and uh there's a lot of
[3:19:04] comp there's a lot of passion in the
[3:19:06] community and and great history that you
[3:19:09] know uh that's going to live on. You
[3:19:11] know, we have new growth and but we have
[3:19:13] to preserve what what what's already
[3:19:15] there and uh and I think this is a good
[3:19:17] a good plan. So, looking forward to the
[3:19:19] vote.
[3:19:23] Excellent. Further comments or
[3:19:24] questions? Seeing none. All right. I'm
[3:19:26] just com I'm going to comment. Linda,
[3:19:27] thank you so much for coming up earlier
[3:19:29] tonight. That was great to see. And the
[3:19:31] chambers for being here today. Thank you
[3:19:32] so much. It is a big moment. Uh this has
[3:19:34] been gone ongoing since 2007 and we're
[3:19:37] finally here. And uh you know, Mr.
[3:19:39] Chambers, Dr. Chambers is not here with
[3:19:41] us, but I think you'll be uh quite
[3:19:43] excited tonight hopefully with the with
[3:19:45] the vote going through because I think
[3:19:46] it is a it is a positive step forward.
[3:19:49] Uh you know, we'll hopefully see the
[3:19:50] next uh let's say Unionville or
[3:19:53] Kleinberg, something like that. I mean,
[3:19:54] there is great potential and there's
[3:19:56] some beautiful beautiful uh areas across
[3:19:59] the province that has these, you know,
[3:20:01] unique settings within their community.
[3:20:03] So, uh look forward to seeing that
[3:20:04] happen. Bonhead has a special place in
[3:20:06] everybody's heart. So, uh, the history
[3:20:08] there is fantastic. So, look forward to,
[3:20:10] uh, having a positive vote here tonight.
[3:20:13] All right. So, I'm actually going to
[3:20:14] call the vote now. All in favor of the
[3:20:17] of the recommendation. Two, three, four,
[3:20:19] five. Unanimous. We'll call it
[3:20:21] unanimous. We've got everybody in here.
[3:20:23] Unanimously supported.
[3:20:26] Excellent.
[3:20:29] We had councelor Dhaney. She voted. Yes,
[3:20:30] she was in favor. It was unanimous. We
[3:20:33] had everybody unanimous. So,
[3:20:34] >> yes, I was in favor. Thank you, Mayor.
[3:20:36] » yes, I was in favor. Thank you, Mayor.
[3:20:36] Yeah. Yeah. We had everybody there. So,
[3:20:39] okay. So, council, do you want to take a
[3:20:41] break?
[3:20:42] >> Okay. So, uh can we pause for five? What
[3:20:45] » Okay. So, uh can we pause for five? What
[3:20:45] time is it? 10. So, be back at 10:25,
[3:20:48] please. So, we can move on because we've
[3:20:49] got till 11 before we have to uh do
[3:20:52] another recommendation.
[3:28:23] Okay, welcome back everyone. We're at
[3:28:26] 9.5 of the agenda. Side road tennis swar
[3:28:28] street naming proposed uh consultation.
[3:28:31] It's a recommendation that PLN2025-40
[3:28:34] be received and that the consultation
[3:28:35] plan proposed for the renaming of side
[3:28:38] road 10 from line 6 to county road 89 as
[3:28:41] outlined in report PLN2025-40
[3:28:43] be endorsed with staff reporting back to
[3:28:46] council on the results of the
[3:28:47] consultation at the earliest opportunity
[3:28:49] and the council endorsed staff plan to
[3:28:51] begin the solicitation of road names uh
[3:28:54] through public consultation as described
[3:28:56] in report PLN2025-40
[3:29:00] on the renaming of select
[3:29:02] select roads in the area surrounding the
[3:29:04] SWAR as described in report PLN225-40
[3:29:07] with staff reporting back to council on
[3:29:09] the results of the consultation at its
[3:29:11] earliest opportunity.
[3:29:15] Who's moving it?
[3:29:17] Okay. Moved by councelor Scott, seconded
[3:29:19] by Mayor Sandu.
[3:29:22] Questions? Go ahead. Council. So my
[3:29:24] question is
[3:29:27] uh on the swar street naming proposed
[3:29:30] consultation. totally agree with with
[3:29:32] with that and that's the right process
[3:29:34] to go for and council's not voted on
[3:29:37] anything yet. But my concern is on side
[3:29:40] road 10 council two years ago approved
[3:29:44] the road renaming. So how can what what
[3:29:47] kind of consultation process are we
[3:29:48] doing? It's after the fact. It's like
[3:29:50] we've approved a subdivision and it's
[3:29:52] half built and we're going to have a
[3:29:54] planning meeting for it. Like it doesn't
[3:29:56] make any sense. It's backwards.
[3:30:05] Does it work if we've already approved
[3:30:06] it?
[3:30:09] Okay, maybe I can have Allan ask that
[3:30:10] question or Alan, can you answer that or
[3:30:12] can Thomas? Who wants to take it first?
[3:30:16] Not me. Not me. Not me.
[3:30:19] >> Thank you, worship. Uh through you to
[3:30:21] » Thank you, worship. Uh through you to
[3:30:21] councelor Vik. And I think it's maybe a
[3:30:22] tendency of um willing to let the other
[3:30:25] go first and speak. Um
[3:30:29] so further to uh the question that
[3:30:31] councelor Vik has posed
[3:30:34] um the contents of the report are meant
[3:30:37] to try to strike a balance between two
[3:30:40] directions that staff have received from
[3:30:43] council. Uh on the one hand, as you've
[3:30:45] indicated, council's given direction to
[3:30:48] advance the renaming for side road 10
[3:30:51] from line 6 through to County Road 89 uh
[3:30:54] to Middleton.
[3:30:57] My apologies.
[3:31:01] I know the report also includes historic
[3:31:03] evidence of Middleton and Middletown, so
[3:31:05] my apologies to have uh used the wrong
[3:31:08] one. Um and uh similarly there's also
[3:31:12] the direction to uh in accordance with
[3:31:14] the street renaming guideline uh to
[3:31:17] consult with the public in the event of
[3:31:20] renaming of a public street. Uh to date
[3:31:24] um members of the public have not been
[3:31:27] notified through the implementation of
[3:31:30] the renaming guideline with regard to
[3:31:32] the side 10 renaming direction. Uh and
[3:31:35] therefore the balance the report seeks
[3:31:38] to strike is uh to use a um essentially
[3:31:42] a consultation light uh program as
[3:31:44] proposed to to use that as the vehicle
[3:31:47] to notify the public and uh and welcome
[3:31:49] feedback which we would include as part
[3:31:50] of a further report to council and that
[3:31:53] said defer to Mr. Daart for any further
[3:31:55] commentary.
[3:31:57] I also would like to add that I think as
[3:31:58] part of the consultation when we come
[3:32:00] back to council with a recommendation to
[3:32:02] rename Middletown Side Road, um council
[3:32:05] has full accounting of the public's
[3:32:07] thoughts, the financial implications, um
[3:32:10] anything that we have to do at the
[3:32:12] county level to rename the road that's
[3:32:13] not under the jurisdiction of the town.
[3:32:15] So, it would be just a full cost
[3:32:16] accounting of what everyone thinks about
[3:32:18] the about the proposal.
[3:32:22] >> Does that help you uh council kite a
[3:32:24] » Does that help you uh council kite a
[3:32:24] little bit?
[3:32:26] Yeah. Okay. I've got councelor Scott
[3:32:28] next.
[3:32:29] >> So, I just want to build on council me's
[3:32:32] » So, I just want to build on council me's
[3:32:32] question and those answers. The only
[3:32:33] thing that I would add is council
[3:32:35] approved renaming Middletown Road or
[3:32:38] Middletown Side Road from 10 side road
[3:32:40] two years ago. Nine months later, we
[3:32:43] created a street renaming framework. I
[3:32:46] have no problem with doing consultation
[3:32:49] light, but the decision's already been
[3:32:51] made. It's more I think about how it
[3:32:53] would be implemented and what we can do
[3:32:56] through the implementation. The policy
[3:33:00] comes in after the decision was made and
[3:33:03] so the decision was made without a
[3:33:06] policy in place at the time. We can try
[3:33:08] and reverse engineer it. I like the
[3:33:10] phrase consultation light, but council
[3:33:11] already made the decision.
[3:33:14] That being said, more generally, I think
[3:33:16] it's a simple and practical initiative
[3:33:18] that honors our heritage and enhances
[3:33:21] public safety because the report talks
[3:33:24] about Middletown Side Road. It's
[3:33:25] something that's colloquially known.
[3:33:27] It's more than that. It's a name that's
[3:33:29] been around for generations. It's on old
[3:33:31] maps. It's still in common use. It's
[3:33:34] actually on a series of the signs up on
[3:33:37] the road today. It's on Google Maps
[3:33:40] today. and it reflects the uh heritage
[3:33:42] of Middletown or more rarely Middleton
[3:33:46] uh which was a a crossroads community uh
[3:33:49] at the at the beginning of Bradford Bond
[3:33:52] Head and and the general area. So, this
[3:33:54] isn't just about honoring the past. It's
[3:33:55] also about reducing confusion,
[3:33:57] especially with emergencies. Today, GPS,
[3:34:00] I think, helps a fair bit, but I I've
[3:34:02] heard stories of residents calling 911
[3:34:05] saying, "I'm at such and such Middletown
[3:34:07] Road." and the dispatcher not knowing
[3:34:10] where Middletown Side Road is because
[3:34:11] technically the name is 10 Side Road and
[3:34:15] the CIO and I were talking about this.
[3:34:17] No one calls it 10 Side Road. They might
[3:34:18] call it Tent Side Road or Side Road 10
[3:34:20] or Middletown Side Road, but fixing this
[3:34:23] is a good idea so that the name actually
[3:34:25] matches what people know it as. Uh like
[3:34:27] I said, it's been endorsed by council
[3:34:28] already in the heritage committee. So,
[3:34:30] I'm all in favor of getting it done
[3:34:32] consultation light. Talk to people so
[3:34:34] they understand what's coming. um if we
[3:34:37] have to do some modest um
[3:34:42] support for the cost of changing an
[3:34:44] address, we can look at that. But that I
[3:34:47] I think modest being the key word
[3:34:49] because we're not really changing a name
[3:34:51] so much as we're standardizing the
[3:34:52] common usage in what half our street or
[3:34:55] some percentage of our street signs and
[3:34:57] what Google Maps already says. As for
[3:34:59] the SWAR, we've effectively thanks to
[3:35:01] that traffic circle created new roads.
[3:35:04] you know, line five east doesn't connect
[3:35:06] to line five west anymore. So, I I I
[3:35:09] think trying to sort that out is is not
[3:35:12] only clarifying things, but it's also a
[3:35:14] nice opportunity to find more ways to
[3:35:15] honor our heritage. And one of those
[3:35:17] streets uh is on the Highway 400
[3:35:20] interchange now. So, it's a bit of a
[3:35:22] entrance to town. So, all in all, I
[3:35:24] think this is uh something that will
[3:35:26] improve clarity on our past and help
[3:35:28] keep us keep keep people safe. And I'm
[3:35:30] I'm all in favor of moving full steam
[3:35:32] ahead on both aspects.
[3:35:36] Thank you. I've got Deputy Mayor.
[3:35:40] >> Thank you, your worship.
[3:35:42] » Thank you, your worship.
[3:35:42] Not to repeat the comments that uh
[3:35:44] already been mentioned by uh the two
[3:35:47] counselors. Um last time we discussed
[3:35:50] this was and approved by council was
[3:35:52] August 1st, 2023.
[3:35:55] I know other priorities take over,
[3:35:57] staff's busy. It took us two years to
[3:35:59] get to this point. In the recommendation
[3:36:02] itself, it says earliest opportunity.
[3:36:06] I fully know what that earliest
[3:36:08] opportunity could be. Could be a month,
[3:36:10] it could be 6 months, it could be a year
[3:36:14] based on your workload, which I
[3:36:15] recognize can change depending on um hot
[3:36:19] issues and stuff. I would like to have
[3:36:23] some sort of a date for this to come
[3:36:25] back with public consultation whether
[3:36:26] it's a month or two months um but not
[3:36:30] this is not a um timeline to go into
[3:36:33] next year. Those are my comments.
[3:36:40] Okay, perfect. Uh further comments or
[3:36:43] questions? Seeing none. Okay. I would
[3:36:45] like uh folks, if you're okay with this,
[3:36:47] I'd like to extend the SWAR renaming to
[3:36:51] side road five.
[3:36:53] It goes only to uh recognition goes only
[3:36:56] to the um east side of the bridge.
[3:36:59] >> I'd like to carry it right through to to
[3:37:00] » I'd like to carry it right through to to
[3:37:00] the fifth side road because well, I'll
[3:37:03] get hang on. You got to wait for me to
[3:37:05] say you can give me a chance. Uh I would
[3:37:08] like to get to there because in the end
[3:37:09] on the highway, you'll see one road
[3:37:12] naming coming off. So otherwise you see
[3:37:14] whatever you call it and then line five
[3:37:16] also. So
[3:37:18] >> side road. So so side road five the the
[3:37:21] » side road. So so side road five the the
[3:37:21] I would say the east side of it to back
[3:37:23] all the way back. You know what I mean?
[3:37:25] Side road five is the interchange. It's
[3:37:27] the lights right there at side five and
[3:37:29] line five. Five and line five. We only
[3:37:33] go to the bridge. We go to the east side
[3:37:34] of the bridge. And then you've got this
[3:37:36] little piece of line five to the light
[3:37:38] and then line five to 27. I'm saying
[3:37:41] just a side road five. Make that
[3:37:43] consistent. Then you got side then you
[3:37:44] got line five from side road five to 27
[3:37:47] to new tech. That's what I was uh
[3:37:49] getting at. It makes it more easy and
[3:37:51] consistent. Otherwise you just go name
[3:37:52] change name change name change. So
[3:37:54] council kite. So not that this is
[3:37:58] relevant to this mo this recommendation
[3:38:02] and that would be part of the
[3:38:04] consultation process. The problem is
[3:38:06] when people want to go to line five and
[3:38:08] they want to go to line five and whether
[3:38:11] it's in BWG or new tech, they're going
[3:38:15] to be going down and where's the sign
[3:38:17] for line five? They're going to get
[3:38:19] anyways. We can talk about that when
[3:38:21] we're in the consultation process. GPS
[3:38:24] will help you with that or like some of
[3:38:27] those funny videos your wife will tell
[3:38:28] you where it is.
[3:38:30] So now it'll be there. it'll uh I'm just
[3:38:34] saying for consistency, but through the
[3:38:35] consultation, I guess that could be, you
[3:38:37] know, talked about. Maybe some people
[3:38:38] say because if you come up the highway,
[3:38:40] you'll see coming up 400, it'll be two
[3:38:42] roads, right? So, just just that's what
[3:38:45] I'd like to see it go to uh the side
[3:38:47] road five. So, if that's something that
[3:38:50] council could support, that's not in the
[3:38:53] report, so I don't know how to put it in
[3:38:54] there because it only goes to the east
[3:38:56] side of the 400, correct? Report. So, is
[3:39:01] that something council can support to
[3:39:02] push further or you want to leave the
[3:39:04] report the report as is?
[3:39:10] Let's uh through consultation we can
[3:39:12] find out if people are okay with it. All
[3:39:13] right. Thank you. Okay. So, we're okay
[3:39:17] with uh any more comments. Seeing none,
[3:39:20] all in favor?
[3:39:22] Three four. Yep. Carried. Thank you. On
[3:39:25] to 9.6. recommendation file uh
[3:39:28] recommendation that report PLN2025-36
[3:39:30] title recommendation report file number
[3:39:33] D14-25-5
[3:39:35] and D12505 for blocks 102 plan 51M 1138
[3:39:40] and part of lot 15 concession 5 be
[3:39:42] received that all written submissions
[3:39:44] received in regard to the applications
[3:39:46] and all oral submissions made to the
[3:39:48] public meeting held on June 10th related
[3:39:50] to the applications have been taken into
[3:39:52] consideration as part of the
[3:39:53] deliberations and final discussions
[3:39:55] finally decision. Sorry. that pursuant
[3:39:57] to section 3417 planning act, no further
[3:40:00] public notification is required, that
[3:40:02] the sight specific zoning bylaw
[3:40:04] amendment D14-25-05
[3:40:06] be approved for lands known as block 102
[3:40:09] plan 51m 1138 and part of lot 15
[3:40:12] concession 5 and that the corresponding
[3:40:15] bylaws be brought forward for enactment
[3:40:17] and that draft plan of subdivision
[3:40:19] D12-25-5
[3:40:21] dated January 21st, 2025 be given draft
[3:40:24] approval subject to conditions as
[3:40:26] pendant to report PLN20-36
[3:40:29] including that draft approval lapse
[3:40:31] after three years if final approval is
[3:40:33] not achieved within that period. Move
[3:40:36] second please
[3:40:38] by councelor Scott seconded by councelor
[3:40:39] Dyiky. Question concerns we have our
[3:40:42] planning staff up here with us.
[3:40:45] Oh,
[3:40:48] » thank you worship. Just for context as
[3:40:50] well, I do believe we have a planning
[3:40:51] consultant from KLM here on behalf of
[3:40:53] Bay View Wellington and the event
[3:40:54] council has questions.
[3:40:57] >> I know we've got everybody here and it's
[3:40:58] » I know we've got everybody here and it's
[3:40:58] late at night. Okay, no questions or
[3:41:02] concerns. So,
[3:41:04] >> I will call the vote. All in favor?
[3:41:07] » I will call the vote. All in favor?
[3:41:08] Carrie. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[3:41:14] We apologize for that. procurement
[3:41:17] activities uh for 2025 first second
[3:41:19] quarters. So I have a report
[3:41:21] recommendation that report LEG 2024-6
[3:41:24] entitled procurement activities 2025
[3:41:26] first and second quarters be received
[3:41:28] for information moving a second by
[3:41:31] deputy mayor seconded by councelor
[3:41:32] Perageni
[3:41:34] question concerns with the report
[3:41:39] okay seeing none all in favor
[3:41:42] carried thank you uh we're on to 9.8 8 m
[3:41:45] elections voting method. So
[3:41:47] recommendation that report CLK-20225-5
[3:41:51] titled 2026 mal election voting method
[3:41:54] be received for information and the
[3:41:56] council confirm the use of internet and
[3:41:58] telephone voting as the voting method
[3:42:00] for the 2026 mal election put on the
[3:42:02] floor. Moved by council Gordano. Second
[3:42:04] by councelor Peragini. Question or
[3:42:06] concerns with this? Okay. I'm going to
[3:42:09] go over this side first. Councelor
[3:42:10] Jordano.
[3:42:11] >> I'd like to move to defer this to next
[3:42:13] » I'd like to move to defer this to next
[3:42:13] council meeting. I think this might be a
[3:42:15] long conversation. It's already getting
[3:42:18] pretty late.
[3:42:20] >> A deferral. Okay. You moved it. You're
[3:42:23] » A deferral. Okay. You moved it. You're
[3:42:23] deferring. You're going to deferral.
[3:42:25] You're seconding that. No, no debate on
[3:42:27] the deferral. So, you want to defer it.
[3:42:29] That means it
[3:42:31] so you have a you have a date that you
[3:42:33] want it back next me
[3:42:37] » next agenda.
[3:42:39] >> Okay, let's uh no debate. So we'll vote
[3:42:44] » Okay, let's uh no debate. So we'll vote
[3:42:44] on the def on the deferral.
[3:42:52] » I wasn't expecting this question.
[3:42:55] Um yeah, we can postpone definitely. aka
[3:42:59] deferral if you state another um meeting
[3:43:03] that you want the report to come back
[3:43:04] to. Sort of the same idea as
[3:43:06] >> deferral.
[3:43:07] » deferral.
[3:43:07] >> So we're deferring it to the next
[3:43:08] » So we're deferring it to the next
[3:43:08] meeting
[3:43:09] >> if that's what you choose. Yes.
[3:43:10] » if that's what you choose. Yes.
[3:43:10] >> Yes.
[3:43:11] » Yes.
[3:43:11] >> What I heard
[3:43:13] » What I heard
[3:43:13] >> because it's going to be a long debate.
[3:43:14] » because it's going to be a long debate.
[3:43:14] He said he doesn't
[3:43:17] >> I don't think it's going to be a long
[3:43:18] » I don't think it's going to be a long
[3:43:18] debate but let's vote on the deferral
[3:43:19] and if it defers it's okay. So all in
[3:43:22] favor of deferral the next meeting
[3:43:26] two. Okay. That's defeated. Uh, all all
[3:43:31] oppose the deferral. I'm sure I'm sorry
[3:43:32] I didn't call that yet. Opposed. Okay.
[3:43:34] So, we're it's defeated.
[3:43:39] » She's gone. She's gone right now. Okay.
[3:43:40] So, uh, this is back on the table. So,
[3:43:43] comments or questions in guard in
[3:43:44] regards to the report? Council councelor
[3:43:47] Rike.
[3:43:51] I would always prefer a paper ballot.
[3:43:55] Uh but this works well. It's been proven
[3:43:59] uh the last bi-election and the um last
[3:44:03] election. My only question is do we have
[3:44:06] an idea or if we don't can we get get a
[3:44:10] cost based on the 2014 numbers for the
[3:44:14] cost of the election multiply it by the
[3:44:17] increase in population and put in an
[3:44:20] inflation factor just to show us how
[3:44:23] much would cost to do a paper ballot. So
[3:44:26] when the public asks us how come we're
[3:44:28] not doing a paper ballot, we can say
[3:44:30] well your taxes would go up point 1%. So
[3:44:34] do you want to pay that money for a
[3:44:37] paper ballot
[3:44:42] through you uh your worship to councel
[3:44:44] Um I don't have those numbers
[3:44:46] right at my fingertips. Um I didn't get
[3:44:48] a specific costing in today's numbers
[3:44:50] for what tabulators um and all the
[3:44:53] additional equipment for a paper ballot
[3:44:54] election would cost. Um but certainly I
[3:44:57] can provide those I can get some quotes
[3:44:59] on those and provide those those numbers
[3:45:00] to council or as you said extrapolate
[3:45:02] from a previous election and provide
[3:45:05] those.
[3:45:06] >> Okay. Thank you. We'll get those numbers
[3:45:08] » Okay. Thank you. We'll get those numbers
[3:45:08] then. Okay. Further comments questions
[3:45:10] counci.
[3:45:12] I got councelor harper.
[3:45:14] Um, I'm okay with uh sticking with the
[3:45:18] voting method that we used in the last
[3:45:20] election. I found that a lot of
[3:45:22] residents were actually very thankful
[3:45:23] for that. They didn't have to stand in
[3:45:25] lines. They didn't have to wait. It was
[3:45:27] very quick. They were amazed. They were
[3:45:29] like, "Wow, I can't believe how fast
[3:45:30] that was." It unfortunately didn't
[3:45:32] really bring our voting numbers up,
[3:45:34] which kind of sucked because I figured,
[3:45:37] especially being at fingertips that
[3:45:39] you're on all the time, it would have
[3:45:41] been a lot easier to vote and get
[3:45:43] everybody to do it that the vote the
[3:45:46] vote turnout was still pretty much the
[3:45:49] same as we went to the uh as it was when
[3:45:52] we were doing the paper. I think it was
[3:45:53] the 30s. It was in the 30s and I think
[3:45:56] that's the same as what we were getting
[3:45:57] with the papers, too. So, I like the
[3:46:00] convenience of it. A lot of people told
[3:46:02] me they like the convenience of it and
[3:46:05] uh yeah, I would leave it the way it is
[3:46:06] now.
[3:46:08] >> Okay. Thank you for that. I've got
[3:46:10] » Okay. Thank you for that. I've got
[3:46:10] councelor Harper and then councelor
[3:46:11] Dyke.
[3:46:13] Councelor D next. Okay.
[3:46:14] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh let's talk about
[3:46:16] » Thank you, Mayor. Uh let's talk about
[3:46:16] some hard numbers here. 82%
[3:46:19] 82.5% of people use the internet for
[3:46:21] voting. Um 6.6% was telephone. 10.9% use
[3:46:27] the kiosk. It's a hard telling fact. Uh
[3:46:30] numbers provided by the CEO. Thank you
[3:46:32] very much for this information.
[3:46:34] Concerning part of that is I'm I would
[3:46:36] be okay with this, but I would like to
[3:46:37] explore some more security measures in
[3:46:40] regards to um
[3:46:43] Oh, I had the word. Oh my god.
[3:46:48] What's the kind of word when you like to
[3:46:51] verify or Yeah, like some verification
[3:46:54] sort of thing.
[3:46:55] Um
[3:46:58] no because when I look at the voter
[3:47:00] turnout and I have it pretty broken down
[3:47:03] um there was 73 people from United
[3:47:05] States, six from India, two from France,
[3:47:08] two from Japan, two from Portugal, two
[3:47:11] from Israel, two from UK, the list goes
[3:47:14] on. Then there's 623
[3:47:17] that were not captured because it was
[3:47:19] due to telephone but it doesn't tell us
[3:47:21] where they were from, where they were.
[3:47:24] So like when I say I need some more
[3:47:25] security measures put in place for this
[3:47:27] stuff, I think that would ratify a lot
[3:47:30] of the points that are being brought
[3:47:31] over when people talk about paper
[3:47:32] ballots because you know who they are.
[3:47:34] But verification stuff like you have to
[3:47:36] do authenticator apps and stuff like
[3:47:38] that for a lot of things or two or
[3:47:41] twoouch uh verification um things are
[3:47:44] going in because of fraud and all that
[3:47:46] stuff. So, I like those that it explored
[3:47:48] in regards to options to basically
[3:47:50] ensure voter um
[3:47:54] verification processes is in line with
[3:47:57] like the most recent updates of the
[3:47:59] updates of that as well.
[3:48:02] I think I basically proved my point that
[3:48:05] people from all over the world are
[3:48:06] voting in a municipal election and then
[3:48:09] 623 from telephone. We don't know where
[3:48:11] they came from.
[3:48:13] So
[3:48:15] >> and I get that. Yeah. From vacation and
[3:48:17] » and I get that. Yeah. From vacation and
[3:48:17] stuff.
[3:48:17] >> Just to I can confirm your two your two
[3:48:19] » Just to I can confirm your two your two
[3:48:19] Japan.
[3:48:20] >> Yeah.
[3:48:21] » Yeah.
[3:48:21] >> Yes. I know. They called me.
[3:48:23] » Yes. I know. They called me.
[3:48:23] >> Okay.
[3:48:23] » Okay.
[3:48:23] >> Two two people were in Japan. They
[3:48:25] » Two two people were in Japan. They
[3:48:25] called me that night. They voted that
[3:48:27] you're seeing it around the world
[3:48:28] because people are able to vote from
[3:48:29] anywhere.
[3:48:30] >> No, I get that. But I'm saying if we
[3:48:32] » No, I get that. But I'm saying if we
[3:48:32] still have some more authentication and
[3:48:34] security measures upgraded, I would be
[3:48:36] I'm okay with that. I'm really okay with
[3:48:38] I just want to say that I can confir
[3:48:39] >> No, I know some people that that that
[3:48:41] » No, I know some people that that that
[3:48:41] did vote across from other countries too
[3:48:43] in this list, but my point being is that
[3:48:46] we need those certific measures and
[3:48:49] authentications to match the local times
[3:48:52] and if the banks do it, all the apps are
[3:48:54] doing it. Everything's asking you for
[3:48:56] two interfacing like, you know, two push
[3:48:59] uh notifications, stuff like that. Yeah,
[3:49:02] that's where we should be going and I'
[3:49:04] I'd like to see that come back after
[3:49:05] this report to just upgrade with the
[3:49:08] times.
[3:49:11] Um, point point well taken. Thank you,
[3:49:13] counselor. Um, that's something we can
[3:49:15] certainly explore with the the vendor um
[3:49:17] and see how that that works and what you
[3:49:20] know I can also report back on on all
[3:49:22] the security measures in place and
[3:49:24] procedures for um the system itself. Um,
[3:49:28] further reports will be coming to you as
[3:49:30] we go through this process. You know, I
[3:49:31] realize it's early now. It's uh I think
[3:49:33] it's 447 days away. So 477, maybe 447. I
[3:49:39] looked it up today, but um you know,
[3:49:41] we're out a little bit, but it's still
[3:49:42] coming close. So um certainly I'll be
[3:49:44] providing more reports to council as as
[3:49:47] more information um as we go through the
[3:49:49] process and more things develop. But I
[3:49:51] can certainly take that point away. as
[3:49:53] far as people voting from, you know, you
[3:49:55] see people from other countries voting.
[3:49:57] It it is the method that's in place that
[3:49:59] allows people to vote from anywhere
[3:50:02] literally um you know, 24 hours 24/7
[3:50:07] sort of thing from from any country. So,
[3:50:08] they could be traveling, they could be
[3:50:09] on vacation. It still allows them to
[3:50:11] vote in our municipal election.
[3:50:15] >> Okay, good point. Okay. Uh Councelor Di,
[3:50:19] » Okay, good point. Okay. Uh Councelor Di,
[3:50:19] I had the same uh same concerns. uh just
[3:50:22] upgrade to security. Uh I like the fact
[3:50:25] that we don't have I'm old fashioned
[3:50:27] too. I'd like to I would have liked to
[3:50:28] see the ballot, but on the other hand um
[3:50:31] and I'm disappointed to see not as
[3:50:33] people I was hoping to see more people
[3:50:35] uh vote uh versus last time. But at the
[3:50:39] end of the day um as we have it's an
[3:50:42] internet phone and u you know maybe in
[3:50:46] look at opportunities in in the seniors
[3:50:49] um senior centers um maybe there's maybe
[3:50:52] some ballots or whatever the case may be
[3:50:54] but at the end of the day they would I I
[3:50:56] had a few people after election come to
[3:50:58] me and said to me they would have
[3:50:59] preferred to see ballots too but that
[3:51:01] was only a a few uh comments I got but
[3:51:04] what I didn't like is where I have seen
[3:51:06] candidates go to the
[3:51:08] and then trying to convince the people
[3:51:10] to to vote. They would go into the
[3:51:13] person's house and say, you know, uh
[3:51:15] here's a here's a card. Please vote for
[3:51:18] me. And and they would force their way
[3:51:19] almost convince their way in. And uh I
[3:51:21] asked them to come forward to speak to
[3:51:23] you, Tara. But at the end of the day,
[3:51:25] this this could go on. I just hope that
[3:51:26] we could come up with a better way of of
[3:51:29] security. That's that's why I was hoping
[3:51:31] to to air all these items out.
[3:51:35] >> Thank you, Mr. Dano.
[3:51:37] » Thank you, Mr. Dano.
[3:51:37] Thank you, Kaisky. That was uh that was
[3:51:40] exactly what I was going to start off my
[3:51:41] conversation with. The problem is in and
[3:51:45] I'm going to be the devil's advocate to
[3:51:46] everyone here. Yeah, I like the
[3:51:47] convenience factor, but what do we get
[3:51:49] in return? We got no improvement really
[3:51:51] when it came to our turnout, but what we
[3:51:53] did do is we have the stronger ability
[3:51:55] for people to force or intimidate people
[3:51:57] to vote certain ways. I saw myself. I a
[3:52:00] lot of people come forward saying that
[3:52:01] people walk into a house and they're
[3:52:02] like, "Oh, sign sign. You know, vote
[3:52:04] here. Oh, let me help you." Oh, oh,
[3:52:05] yeah, that's my name over there. the
[3:52:06] next thing you know they're getting all
[3:52:07] the votes. So I'm a traditionalist. I
[3:52:10] like proper vote. It's the gold standard
[3:52:12] for a reason because you have to show
[3:52:14] up. You have to show proper ID. My
[3:52:16] biggest concern is actually how do
[3:52:17] people get their voter cards. I'm not a
[3:52:19] big fan of just providing a phone bill
[3:52:21] or something else. And I was like, "Oh
[3:52:22] yeah, okay. Here you go. Go ahead and
[3:52:23] vote." Right? No, you got to be able and
[3:52:25] eligible to vote. And I think we need to
[3:52:27] tighten that up, too, because I think
[3:52:28] it's a little too loose right now. And
[3:52:30] there's so many people taking advantage
[3:52:31] of that. It's happening across Canada,
[3:52:33] the US, and around the world. So, you
[3:52:35] know, we we're only in control of our
[3:52:36] little municipality. Let's make sure we
[3:52:38] do it right in the gold standard. So,
[3:52:39] I'm not in support of going this. And I
[3:52:41] and I will I will I will say that the
[3:52:43] convenience factor is fantastic. I think
[3:52:45] it's great, but I'm not willing to give
[3:52:47] up or erode our democracy when it comes
[3:52:50] to proper vetting of how we do things.
[3:52:53] And I don't like the intimidation
[3:52:54] factor. Those are two things that
[3:52:55] influence people and they feel pressure.
[3:52:58] And I I didn't like it. I didn't like it
[3:52:59] when I see it. I would never do that.
[3:53:01] And and frankly, I think you having
[3:53:03] somebody go and commit, that's that's
[3:53:04] our given right. You know, people around
[3:53:07] the world are coming to Canada because
[3:53:08] they love they love our laws and and our
[3:53:10] freedoms and everything else. And we're
[3:53:11] trying to make it more convenient, which
[3:53:12] is great. It's not yielding better
[3:53:14] results, but all it's it's also creating
[3:53:16] these other problems. So, I'd like to
[3:53:17] get rid of that and go back to
[3:53:18] traditional voting.
[3:53:22] >> Okay. Thank you. I've got uh Councelor
[3:53:24] » Okay. Thank you. I've got uh Councelor
[3:53:24] Scott next.
[3:53:26] >> So, just a couple of comments in
[3:53:27] » So, just a couple of comments in
[3:53:27] response to some of what's been raised.
[3:53:29] I've had the benefit of running a
[3:53:30] mayoral campaign under the paper ballot
[3:53:32] system and then running in the two
[3:53:35] online elections, the bi-election and
[3:53:37] then the general election. The the paper
[3:53:41] system had its benefits, the vote
[3:53:43] everywhere, but we had to run multiple I
[3:53:46] think it was seven polling stations that
[3:53:48] had to be staffed and they were only
[3:53:50] open on specific days. So you you had
[3:53:52] the two or three days of advanced polls
[3:53:54] and then e day. I like the online voting
[3:53:56] because it essentially has 10 days of an
[3:53:58] election. It's true that voter turnout
[3:54:00] didn't go up, but the collar to that is
[3:54:04] it didn't go down. In fact, my
[3:54:06] bi-election had seven more votes than
[3:54:08] the general the year prior. And perhaps
[3:54:11] that's because it was a a competitive
[3:54:12] seven person race. Perhaps it's because
[3:54:15] we made it easier for people. And unlike
[3:54:17] other municipalities, we didn't see a
[3:54:19] drop. So hard to prove the negative, but
[3:54:22] I I think the fact that it's maintained
[3:54:24] and I would say with without really a
[3:54:26] competitive uh race at the top of the
[3:54:28] ticket last election, the fact that it
[3:54:30] stayed where it was, that was uh that
[3:54:34] was pretty helpful. So uh I think it
[3:54:36] works as to the concern about
[3:54:38] uh
[3:54:40] vote or manipulating the will of the
[3:54:43] elector. The the Municipal Elections Act
[3:54:45] is clear what you can or cannot do uh to
[3:54:47] assist someone in voting. And that's
[3:54:49] true in person or online. Uh and uh
[3:54:55] certainly anyone who tried that I like
[3:54:56] to think isn't sitting at this table. So
[3:54:58] it also didn't work.
[3:55:02] Okay.
[3:55:05] Councelor Harper again. Thanks Mayor. I
[3:55:08] have a with me R. I have an hourly
[3:55:10] voting uh heat map here of the 10 days
[3:55:14] and a lot of the voting really either
[3:55:16] happened on the first day or within the
[3:55:18] final day.
[3:55:22] Does it have to be 10 days?
[3:55:34] » Through your worship to uh council
[3:55:36] Harper. No, the voting period does not
[3:55:38] have to be 10 days. Um it's just just
[3:55:41] allows that opportunity for people to
[3:55:43] have
[3:55:45] time even though you generally speaking.
[3:55:48] Um in any election people will show up
[3:55:50] when it first opens even with paper
[3:55:52] ballots at voting locations and then
[3:55:54] we'll wait till the very last minute to
[3:55:56] to vote as well. So, um, but allowing
[3:56:00] allowing that sort of time frame just
[3:56:03] does increase the convenience time. Um,
[3:56:06] the opportunity for people to cast their
[3:56:08] votes. Um, it just allows that extra
[3:56:10] time. Well, we have our voter help
[3:56:12] centers in operation during that time.
[3:56:13] So, we've got, you know, hours in the
[3:56:15] evening, weekend days, um, variety of
[3:56:18] hours for people to come in and get that
[3:56:19] assistance if they need it. Um, so we do
[3:56:22] like to to keep that. Um the vendors I
[3:56:25] think generally recommend a 12 to 14 day
[3:56:28] um voting period with internet and phone
[3:56:31] voting. So um it does seem like a a long
[3:56:34] time but it's also um
[3:56:37] you know just that opportunity for
[3:56:39] people to to cast their ballots.
[3:56:44] » So what would the process look like for
[3:56:47] us to either shorten that or extend
[3:56:50] that? Do we have to go through this
[3:56:52] vendor or can we make that
[3:56:53] recommendation?
[3:56:55] Because certainly when you're looking at
[3:56:56] this data that I bought out in like
[3:56:58] beautiful colors and everything down to
[3:57:00] the minute or the hour,
[3:57:04] you can clearly see that there's some
[3:57:06] room for adaptation here. And if we run
[3:57:08] it two cycles already and we don't
[3:57:11] change it based on the projections, then
[3:57:13] maybe we could and make it more
[3:57:15] streamlined and efficient.
[3:57:18] >> Again, a point well well taken. That's
[3:57:20] » Again, a point well well taken. That's
[3:57:20] something we can we can look at a little
[3:57:21] more closely. Um it would be up to the
[3:57:23] election administrators to determine,
[3:57:25] you know, those those time frames and
[3:57:28] that that voting that voting period per
[3:57:30] se and when we have the voter help
[3:57:31] center. So looking at previous
[3:57:33] statistics will help us determine that
[3:57:34] and and we will take that into account
[3:57:36] for sure in planning.
[3:57:40] got uh depor sand. I've got uh councelor
[3:57:43] and councelor Scott. We're at 1056.
[3:57:46] So um if we can get that done in four
[3:57:48] minutes, otherwise we have to do a
[3:57:50] procedural bylaw procedural uh
[3:57:54] >> Okay, I'll I'll be quick. Um I agree
[3:57:58] » Okay, I'll I'll be quick. Um I agree
[3:57:58] with this report. I I'm in favor of the
[3:58:01] method we used last election. I don't
[3:58:03] understand what the fear is of having 14
[3:58:06] days. Uh it's just um look at the
[3:58:09] numbers uh on those days. If we took
[3:58:12] those out, those people might not vote
[3:58:14] the other days. So I don't have an issue
[3:58:16] sticking with what's proposed to us.
[3:58:19] Hey, it's giving more days and
[3:58:21] opportunities for for democratic process
[3:58:24] to work. People come out and vote. So I
[3:58:26] don't have an issue with this report.
[3:58:27] Thank you.
[3:58:31] » Okay. Thank you. Uh go ahead, Coun. just
[3:58:35] are are we not trying to be consistent
[3:58:37] too with New Tech, Inisville, ESSA, and
[3:58:40] Agela? Like it's all pretty well the
[3:58:42] same time frame and they're doing we're
[3:58:44] doing joint advertising.
[3:58:49] » Yeah, with respect to the joint
[3:58:51] advertising council for kite that's
[3:58:52] generally um promoting that the
[3:58:54] municipal election is happening. Um it
[3:58:56] doesn't because we are doing SEO
[3:58:58] countywide
[3:59:00] um with respect to those specific ads.
[3:59:03] Um we don't get into sort of the details
[3:59:05] of each municipality's um separate
[3:59:08] election details, but we do encourage
[3:59:10] people the mil municipal election is
[3:59:11] happening and um give them enough
[3:59:13] information that they know to go to
[3:59:14] their local municipalities to check the
[3:59:16] information to to be able to vote.
[3:59:22] » Okay. I I should do this first before we
[3:59:24] go any further. Okay. So we don't So
[3:59:26] council I got to put on the floor that
[3:59:28] council move to extend the meeting
[3:59:29] beyond 11 p.m. until such time as all
[3:59:31] remaining items on the agenda are are
[3:59:33] addressed. So are we good with that? I
[3:59:35] need a move or a second move by
[3:59:36] councelor K. Second by councelor Scott.
[3:59:38] All in favor
[3:59:40] carried. Okay.
[3:59:43] All right. Councelor Scott.
[3:59:45] >> Yeah. Just very briefly to councelor
[3:59:46] » Yeah. Just very briefly to councelor
[3:59:46] Harper's question about 10 days being
[3:59:48] too long. It's a third of what you have
[3:59:51] fedally and proincially where the
[3:59:52] returning office is open every day of
[3:59:54] the right for you to go vote.
[3:59:58] » Okay. Further uh comments or questions?
[4:00:02] Okay. Seeing none, we will call for the
[4:00:04] vote on the recommendation. So all in
[4:00:07] favor the recommendation
[4:00:10] one, two, three. I'd like
[4:00:11] >> to call a quarter vote on this.
[4:00:13] » to call a quarter vote on this.
[4:00:13] >> Okay.
[4:00:43] Okay. So, in
[4:00:46] favor of moving forward
[4:00:50] with the voting methods for the 2026
[4:00:53] municipal election.
[4:00:56] Um,
[4:00:59] we'll start with councelor Gerardano.
[4:01:01] Please say yes in favor or no in
[4:01:03] opposition.
[4:01:05] >> No. Councelor
[4:01:10] Peter Dy.
[4:01:13] >> Councelor Perigini.
[4:01:15] » Councelor Perigini.
[4:01:15] >> No.
[4:01:17] » No.
[4:01:17] >> Councelor Harper.
[4:01:19] » Councelor Harper.
[4:01:20] >> Yes.
[4:01:22] » Yes.
[4:01:22] >> Councelor Scott.
[4:01:24] » Councelor Scott.
[4:01:24] >> Councelor Verkike.
[4:01:26] » Councelor Verkike.
[4:01:26] >> Yes.
[4:01:28] » Yes.
[4:01:28] >> Deputy Mayor Sandeu.
[4:01:30] » Deputy Mayor Sandeu.
[4:01:30] >> Yes.
[4:01:32] » Yes.
[4:01:32] >> And Mayor Leuk.
[4:01:34] » And Mayor Leuk.
[4:01:34] >> Yes.
[4:01:37] Okay. So that uh passes. The motion is
[4:01:41] carried.
[4:01:43] >> Okay. Thank you.
[4:01:45] » Okay. Thank you.
[4:01:45] We are moving on to 9.9.
[4:01:49] Mayor and Council Golf Classic Summary.
[4:01:51] A recommendation that report CAO 2025-3
[4:01:54] titled the 2025 mayor and council golf
[4:01:57] classic summary be received for
[4:01:58] information and the golf committee
[4:02:00] reconvenes in January 26 to commence the
[4:02:02] planning process for the 2026 mayor and
[4:02:05] uh council golf classic. Move second put
[4:02:07] this on the floor please by deputy mayor
[4:02:10] seconded by councelor Dyke. Question
[4:02:12] concerns with the report
[4:02:15] councelor Scott and councelor
[4:02:17] >> Thanks Mr. Mayor. So, this was a fun
[4:02:19] » Thanks Mr. Mayor. So, this was a fun
[4:02:19] event and I want to thank staff, the
[4:02:21] organizing committee and the sponsors uh
[4:02:23] for making it happen. And I also want to
[4:02:25] thank the CEO for answering my questions
[4:02:27] earlier today. I was trying to reconcile
[4:02:30] the funds raised this year, but also
[4:02:32] over the past two years with the
[4:02:36] publicly stated commitments to various
[4:02:38] events. I'm just going to focus on this
[4:02:39] year because I I had satisfactory
[4:02:41] answers to past years. Unfortunately,
[4:02:43] there seems to be a gap between what was
[4:02:46] communicated to the public about the
[4:02:47] 2025 proceeds and the actual impact.
[4:02:51] Promotions in advance, the postevent
[4:02:54] news release, and this report said the
[4:02:56] funds would go to quote essential
[4:02:58] upgrades to various parks such as Rotary
[4:03:01] Park. In reality, the tournament
[4:03:04] contributed $40,000 solely to Rotary
[4:03:07] Park. Rotary Park was only already fully
[4:03:09] funded and approved in the 2025 budget
[4:03:12] at $135,000.
[4:03:14] So the tournament offset about one
[4:03:16] quarter of its cost again which was
[4:03:17] already budgeted. This perhaps could
[4:03:19] free up that amount for for future
[4:03:22] upgrades which is welcome but it's a
[4:03:23] very different story than suggesting the
[4:03:25] event directly funded the project in
[4:03:28] addition to funding upgrades to various
[4:03:30] whatever that meant other parks. So in
[4:03:33] reality we funded a quarter of one park
[4:03:36] not multiple park projects.
[4:03:39] Any additional funding is a good thing.
[4:03:41] I'm not questioning that. But I I do
[4:03:44] worry about approving this until we have
[4:03:47] more transparency around the numbers. I
[4:03:49] I think councelor and perhaps
[4:03:51] councelor Gardano had asked last year
[4:03:52] about transparency as to the revenue,
[4:03:56] the donation side. I'm asking about the
[4:03:57] expenses side. So, I'm going to move
[4:04:01] that this report be referred back to
[4:04:03] staff with a request to return by early
[4:04:05] fall with a breakdown for 2023, 2024,
[4:04:09] and 2025 showing gross revenue from
[4:04:12] registrations and sponsorship, event
[4:04:14] expenses, net proceeds, how those funds
[4:04:17] have been spent or committed over the
[4:04:18] past three years, and what percentage of
[4:04:20] the projects were then funded by the
[4:04:22] tournament. And I I emailed the clerk in
[4:04:24] advance, so they have this. I think we
[4:04:27] owe it to the public to tidy this up if
[4:04:29] there if there was an overcommitment or
[4:04:32] uh some enthusiasm that wasn't realized
[4:04:34] in in the actual accounting afterwards
[4:04:37] because this carries the town's name. I
[4:04:40] think we branded it the mayor and
[4:04:41] council tournament. It certainly uses
[4:04:42] town resources and supports important
[4:04:44] local causes over the years. So, I'd
[4:04:47] like to uh refer this back to get that
[4:04:49] additional information. I think it will
[4:04:50] uh tidy things up and uh if mistakes
[4:04:53] happen they happen but um funding one
[4:04:56] park when the commitment was to fund
[4:04:58] various parks and the funding for that
[4:05:00] one park was just a quarter of the total
[4:05:02] costs that wasn't as advertised.
[4:05:08] Okay. Thank you, councelor Dyiky.
[4:05:12] As a as a word counselor that uh had the
[4:05:16] the road uh park upgraded and I must say
[4:05:19] I I received many calls on the problem
[4:05:22] with the old um pavilion and the people
[4:05:25] living in it and and all the problems it
[4:05:27] causes for the neighbors for Jury Street
[4:05:29] and and Holland Court. I I just want to
[4:05:31] thank the committee. I know there was a
[4:05:32] lot of funds that went to various
[4:05:35] positive things, Scan Creek and the
[4:05:37] whole whole nine yards, but I I just
[4:05:39] want to thank u for benefit. I know it
[4:05:42] was in the budget, but I haven't seen
[4:05:43] all those final numbers as well when it
[4:05:45] came to the to Rotary Park, but I think
[4:05:49] at the end of the day that it's a big
[4:05:50] improvement of downtown. So, private
[4:05:52] funding and and taxation, it really
[4:05:54] benefited old part of town. So, I just
[4:05:56] wanted to thank your mayor and and the
[4:05:58] many councils, Karen, and everybody that
[4:06:00] sits on the committee, and it's not easy
[4:06:02] to fund raise uh these projects,
[4:06:05] especially with golf course uh golf
[4:06:06] tournaments. It's not easy to get the
[4:06:08] funds.
[4:06:09] >> So, I have a point of order. I moved a
[4:06:10] » So, I have a point of order. I moved a
[4:06:10] referral and I would need a seconder,
[4:06:12] but that would then have to take
[4:06:13] precedence over general debate.
[4:06:16] >> Moved a referral. Okay. I thought you
[4:06:18] » Moved a referral. Okay. I thought you
[4:06:18] made an amendment to the motion.
[4:06:20] >> No, Mr. Mayor. I clearly stated that I'd
[4:06:22] » No, Mr. Mayor. I clearly stated that I'd
[4:06:22] like to refer it back to staff. I
[4:06:23] specified when and the items I'd want. I
[4:06:25] need a seconder on a referral motion and
[4:06:27] then that takes precedent but it is
[4:06:28] debatable.
[4:06:29] >> We've been through this twice tonight.
[4:06:31] » We've been through this twice tonight.
[4:06:31] >> No problem. Good for you. Okay. So, we
[4:06:34] » No problem. Good for you. Okay. So, we
[4:06:34] need a seconder for that.
[4:06:38] >> Your your second.
[4:06:38] » Your your second.
[4:06:38] >> I'll second it. But can I add uh will
[4:06:41] » I'll second it. But can I add uh will
[4:06:41] there be debate so I can ask for further
[4:06:43] information on other things?
[4:06:45] >> Yes, absolutely. Ask away.
[4:06:51] So I guess if if possible, we have the
[4:06:56] event sponsor, we have platinum
[4:06:58] sponsors.
[4:07:00] Uh these major sponsors are
[4:07:03] uh they're putting their name out there
[4:07:05] at the event, I believe, and I don't see
[4:07:08] why they're not listed in a in this
[4:07:11] report who's who's donating what. Um,
[4:07:16] you know, it's they're not hiding it
[4:07:19] because I believe that they're putting
[4:07:21] it out there during the the event. So,
[4:07:23] it's not private information, but it's
[4:07:26] not very transparent to the public.
[4:07:30] >> I'd consider that friendly to my
[4:07:31] » I'd consider that friendly to my
[4:07:31] referral motion.
[4:07:35] » Okay.
[4:07:37] >> Yeah. Councelor Jam, go ahead.
[4:07:40] » Yeah. Councelor Jam, go ahead.
[4:07:40] >> Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, I I
[4:07:42] » Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, I I
[4:07:42] we've had some discussions offline about
[4:07:43] this in some of the emails and um yeah,
[4:07:46] this is the type of information that
[4:07:48] when it comes to building trust with the
[4:07:50] community and everything else, it's good
[4:07:51] to know what the only concern I have is
[4:07:53] that you don't want to scare away. Um u
[4:07:57] but you know, if they're putting their
[4:07:58] logo out there and they're saying, "Hey,
[4:07:59] I'm a platinum sponsor or I'm a gold
[4:08:01] spot of a whole sponsor." There's a rate
[4:08:03] card. It's well advertised. So I I would
[4:08:06] say that that's pretty fair game to at
[4:08:09] least detail that or at least have it in
[4:08:11] buckets, right? So some some sort of
[4:08:13] transparency that shows that I wouldn't
[4:08:14] want to, you know, promote that and
[4:08:16] throw it out all across, you know, u for
[4:08:18] everyone to see, but at the same time,
[4:08:20] when you sign up for a municipal uh
[4:08:23] anything and you're giving donations, it
[4:08:24] should be a lot more transparent than we
[4:08:26] have it right now.
[4:08:30] » Yeah. Craber.
[4:08:34] Thanks, Mayor.
[4:08:36] This This is kind of a bit bugging me.
[4:08:38] It's almost like we're on a witch hunt
[4:08:40] here or something, but can I get a
[4:08:42] clarification? Like, is there a
[4:08:44] requirement that we have to like
[4:08:45] transparently show who donates
[4:08:48] privately? Do we have to reach out then
[4:08:50] to to these donors to get their consent
[4:08:54] to put put it publicly? Like, did we put
[4:08:56] it in any any position where we would
[4:08:59] tell the public that they would be doing
[4:09:01] this? I mean, it was a council mayor and
[4:09:03] council golf tournament, but like where
[4:09:06] where do we stand on this? Like, do we
[4:09:09] have to have them like I just want to
[4:09:11] know what what the actual
[4:09:13] ruling is on this because it's a bit
[4:09:16] confusing and it just like
[4:09:19] you know, councelor J, you put it right.
[4:09:21] You don't want to scare anybody off
[4:09:22] here, but like that a port like this is
[4:09:25] exactly what he might do. and we're
[4:09:27] actually getting a lot of things done in
[4:09:30] this this town. And I and I understand
[4:09:33] councelor Scott, you know, wanting to
[4:09:35] make sure that the proper places or
[4:09:37] things were were funded. And that part I
[4:09:39] don't mind with seeing where it went,
[4:09:41] but like we're tracking down and and
[4:09:44] name calling donors now and stuff. It
[4:09:47] just seems a little bit farfetched here.
[4:09:49] I'd like the ruling on that. Like do we
[4:09:51] have a process?
[4:09:54] >> No, I don't know if we have a process,
[4:09:55] » No, I don't know if we have a process,
[4:09:55] but we'll look through it. look through
[4:09:56] it. It's it's everything's fair game.
[4:09:58] This is council and mayor's golf event.
[4:10:01] So there are there is a committee we set
[4:10:03] up and uh we have members on that
[4:10:05] committee and every year we've changed
[4:10:06] them where we've asked people to come on
[4:10:08] that committee. This information is all
[4:10:10] available. Um the money's been spent on
[4:10:13] like it's almost like we're saying that
[4:10:15] I'm hiding something whatever. I'm not
[4:10:16] hiding anything. I I don't know why we
[4:10:18] think it's me. This is a mayor and
[4:10:20] council event. Some of you has actually
[4:10:22] come some of you come for photos and
[4:10:24] leave. But some of you come and play
[4:10:26] golf, some don't. But that's okay. I
[4:10:28] mean, that's this is our this is our
[4:10:30] event. I do a lot of work to get this
[4:10:32] event off. I do a lot of fundraising for
[4:10:34] it. Yeah. But I we've supported the
[4:10:36] 100th RCAF event. We've supported the
[4:10:38] 100th anniversary hall of Marsh, the
[4:10:40] Rotary Park. We supported money for our
[4:10:42] town hall for when uh our town hall is
[4:10:44] built. Council have money to do what
[4:10:46] they want in the foyer to put some
[4:10:47] extras in there. That's all going to be
[4:10:49] in the account. Everything is accounted
[4:10:51] for. We There's nothing unaccounted for
[4:10:53] here. There's nothing there's no hidden
[4:10:55] magic thing here. We are a a town. We're
[4:10:58] accountable. If you want a friends that
[4:11:00] got it, we can give you friends that got
[4:11:02] it. I have nothing to hide. There's
[4:11:04] nothing to hide. I sent a I sent a an
[4:11:07] Excel spreadsheet that the same
[4:11:08] spreadsheet that we do every year.
[4:11:10] Members of council see that. I don't
[4:11:12] know what the big idea is that we have
[4:11:14] to express who was the va who was at the
[4:11:16] uh who was the donor or whatever. I
[4:11:19] mean, they're at the golf event. They're
[4:11:21] they're on the cards. They're there. you
[4:11:22] know who they are.
[4:11:24] If you want to tell the public, go ahead
[4:11:26] and tell the public. They they probably
[4:11:27] won't do it again.
[4:11:29] So, I'm I'm I'm good with not even
[4:11:31] running a tournament again. Let's let's
[4:11:33] not do it. Let's save the time and
[4:11:34] effort because this is going to cost
[4:11:35] staff time. They're the ones that have
[4:11:37] to put this all together. We have it on
[4:11:38] spreadsheets, but Okay. So, Councelor
[4:11:41] Scott, go ahead.
[4:11:43] >> Thanks, your worship. Okay. I uh I think
[4:11:46] » Thanks, your worship. Okay. I uh I think
[4:11:46] it's fair game to ask for transparency
[4:11:49] and I I hear your defensiveness and
[4:11:52] that's fair and fine, but I wouldn't be
[4:11:54] asking for something if the advertising,
[4:11:57] the news release and this report didn't
[4:12:00] say that we funded multiple parks when
[4:12:02] we funded a quarter of one. That's my
[4:12:04] question. Councelor Vike then asked for
[4:12:06] more information about the donors and
[4:12:08] I'm in favor of more transparency, not
[4:12:10] less. But, uh, councelor Harper said,
[4:12:12] "It feels like a witch hunt." I wouldn't
[4:12:15] be here if there wasn't a discrepancy
[4:12:17] between what was advertised, stated in
[4:12:21] the news release, and stated in the
[4:12:22] report that we funded various park
[4:12:25] upgrades, including Rotary Park, when in
[4:12:27] the end, we funded a quarter of Rotary
[4:12:29] Park. That's the main thing I was asking
[4:12:31] for. I I think I think and and councelor
[4:12:34] Hyper said that piece is fair. I'll let
[4:12:35] councelor Bkite out if he wants on the
[4:12:37] donations, but I thought more
[4:12:39] transparency, not less, is a good thing.
[4:12:42] Council,
[4:12:43] >> my my question is not directed at the
[4:12:45] » my my question is not directed at the
[4:12:45] mayor. I direct my question is directed
[4:12:47] at staff uh to add this to the report.
[4:12:51] if staff consider that it's not
[4:12:54] appropriate that staff cons do that but
[4:12:58] I can ask the question
[4:13:01] not directed at this is a mayor and
[4:13:03] council culture so as a counselor I
[4:13:05] should be able to ask these questions
[4:13:09] certainly you can ask any question you
[4:13:11] want okay so we got a referral back on
[4:13:14] and they're and you have the uh reasons
[4:13:16] you have everything documented on what
[4:13:17] they want referred all the information
[4:13:19] that they're asking before they have it.
[4:13:22] Make sure you have it because I don't
[4:13:23] want to miss any. Okay. So, we're uh
[4:13:27] we're voting on that a referral. So, all
[4:13:30] in favor?
[4:13:33] Okay. Thank you. Supported.
[4:13:39] Moving on. We're on to staff request for
[4:13:41] staff reports. Any request for staff
[4:13:44] report tonight?
[4:13:44] >> Yes, sir.
[4:13:45] » Yes, sir.
[4:13:45] >> Yep. Go ahead.
[4:13:47] » Yep. Go ahead.
[4:13:47] >> Thank you again. Um, so I have a request
[4:13:49] » Thank you again. Um, so I have a request
[4:13:50] that I hope council will support. Uh, it
[4:13:52] reflects concerns we've heard recently
[4:13:54] or directly over many years from
[4:13:55] residents and it also follows a
[4:13:57] precedent council established last year.
[4:13:59] So, I'd first like to ask staff to
[4:14:01] report back on whether there are cost
[4:14:03] efficiencies or other benefits to
[4:14:04] expanding the current Britannia Avenue
[4:14:07] resurfacing project to include Wood
[4:14:09] Crescent, Julie Court, and Jennifer
[4:14:10] Court. These are some of the older roads
[4:14:12] and among the worst condition. I mention
[4:14:14] them often, but because of lower traffic
[4:14:16] volumes, they're get they keep getting
[4:14:18] pushed back down the priority list.
[4:14:20] We've had success in the past bundling
[4:14:21] roads like these into nearby projects to
[4:14:23] get them done more efficiently. In my
[4:14:25] word, Patrician Court got done a few
[4:14:26] years ago that way last year around this
[4:14:29] time. Uh the mayor had a good idea, I
[4:14:31] thought, and brought forward a similar
[4:14:32] request to this to add Ryagens
[4:14:34] Industrial Parkway to the Line 8
[4:14:36] reservicing after business owners had
[4:14:38] raised concerns. This is the a similar
[4:14:40] case, just it's dozens of residents
[4:14:42] asking. Um, sorry, I'll wrap up quickly.
[4:14:45] The roads I'm raising are already in the
[4:14:47] capital asset renewal plan slotted for
[4:14:49] future years at a cost of $555,000.
[4:14:52] Very similar in dollar scope to reagens
[4:14:55] last year. If we accelerate the work and
[4:14:57] achieve cost savings by combining it
[4:14:58] with Britannia now, I think that's worth
[4:15:00] exploring. So, I I'd like to see us ask
[4:15:03] staff to report back on this at a
[4:15:05] meeting in September. And then second,
[4:15:08] I'm also going to ask staff to review
[4:15:09] whether two small and seemingly
[4:15:12] overlapping reserve funds, the parking
[4:15:13] lot reserve fund and the capital
[4:15:15] facilities reserve fund could be
[4:15:17] consolidated into our capital asset
[4:15:19] renewal reserve fund. Uh this would
[4:15:21] streamline planning and capital uh
[4:15:23] projects. It would add roughly half a
[4:15:26] million dollars, which is incidentally
[4:15:28] roughly the cost of the road projects
[4:15:31] I'm asking to look into accelerating
[4:15:33] into the capital asset plan. So
[4:15:35] hopefully those are uh two practical
[4:15:37] proposals that I'd like uh staff to
[4:15:39] report on so we can make a decision. I'm
[4:15:40] not saying we need to say yes or no to
[4:15:43] either thing tonight, but I'd like uh
[4:15:44] the information brought back, please.
[4:15:50] » Sorry, point of order. I just have to uh
[4:15:52] declare a conflict on the Bratannu. So
[4:15:54] if you could split the vote.
[4:15:57] >> Okay.
[4:16:01] Okay. Moved by Council G. So Okay.
[4:16:04] Second. So, we have that. You've heard
[4:16:06] what councelor
[4:16:09] Scott wants on questions? Yeah,
[4:16:12] >> sure. So,
[4:16:15] » sure. So,
[4:16:15] when the reports come back, it would
[4:16:18] would like staff to highlight if it's
[4:16:20] going to push any other regularly
[4:16:22] scheduled projects back, regardless of
[4:16:25] where the savings are and how we're
[4:16:27] doing it. If it's going to and which
[4:16:29] projects are going to push be pushed
[4:16:31] back. That way we can decide at that
[4:16:33] time whether we're going to go through
[4:16:34] with this or not.
[4:16:39] » So yeah, I want I want to support it's
[4:16:41] always best to do due diligence when it
[4:16:43] looks at optimization of any type of
[4:16:44] project, but I agree with the deputy
[4:16:46] mayor 100%. I I wouldn't want to
[4:16:47] sacrifice or push back another project
[4:16:50] that is uh maybe on a higher priority
[4:16:52] list or something else, but I find that
[4:16:54] there's always ways to to look at
[4:16:56] scenarios. So I I look forward to the
[4:16:57] solutioning that they bring back and
[4:16:58] seeing how that plays.
[4:17:04] Okay. So, we're not we we can split the
[4:17:07] vote then if you want. Okay. So, we'll
[4:17:10] just vote on the re on the uh report for
[4:17:13] looking for resurfacing of the roads to
[4:17:15] start.
[4:17:17] Okay. Okay. And then we'll do the the
[4:17:19] one with consolidating the reserve
[4:17:21] funds. Okay. So, uh all in favor of the
[4:17:24] report for the consolidation of the
[4:17:26] roads repaving.
[4:17:28] Okay. Carried.
[4:17:30] Next one is on the consolidation a
[4:17:32] report for the consolidation of the two
[4:17:34] reserve uh funds to be moved into the
[4:17:37] capital expenditure reserve. Okay,
[4:17:40] that's carried to reports are coming.
[4:17:42] >> Same.
[4:17:43] » Same.
[4:17:43] >> Oh, move second. Well, the same move
[4:17:45] » Oh, move second. Well, the same move
[4:17:45] secondary. Yeah, sorry.
[4:17:48] >> Okay, good. Any further request for
[4:17:51] » Okay, good. Any further request for
[4:17:51] staff reports? Don't have any. Nobody
[4:17:53] came to the
[4:18:00] Oh, yeah.
[4:18:03] » Yeah. Okay.
[4:18:05] >> I could have brought it up for her.
[4:18:08] » I could have brought it up for her.
[4:18:08] >> It's okay. I let go. Okay. Yeah, because
[4:18:10] » It's okay. I let go. Okay. Yeah, because
[4:18:10] she didn't. She has to go through CF.
[4:18:12] Okay. There's no committee hall. We're
[4:18:14] on to Let's move on.
[4:18:18] Section 12, committee minutes and
[4:18:20] recommendations. Recommendation. The
[4:18:21] committee minutes uh and recommendations
[4:18:23] item 121 inclusive be received and
[4:18:25] approved. Move. Second, please. Move by
[4:18:28] councelor Vike. Second by councelor
[4:18:29] Dyke. Question, concerns with any
[4:18:32] amendments and recommendations. All
[4:18:34] right. Seeing none, all in favor?
[4:18:37] Carried. Thank you. We are on to uh no
[4:18:39] new business. 14 bylaws. Recommendation
[4:18:41] that bylaws 2025, 81, 82, and 84 be
[4:18:45] passed. Uh 81 is a zoning uh bylaw
[4:18:50] amendment, and 82 is a building
[4:18:52] inspector appointment bylaw. uh Lumang
[4:18:56] Yang. So, welcome to our our uh building
[4:18:59] department and then a pres-ervice
[4:19:01] agreement with Bond Head uh properties
[4:19:03] 8. So, move a second to put this on the
[4:19:05] floor. Moved by Deputy Mayor, seconded
[4:19:07] by Councelor Farerini.
[4:19:10] Question or concerns? Seeing none, all
[4:19:12] in favor? Carried. Thank you.
[4:19:16] Uh announcements. We don't have uh we
[4:19:19] have general announcements, so let's get
[4:19:21] through that. I'll try and speed read
[4:19:24] today.
[4:19:25] Um, no, maybe I'll take my time.
[4:19:30] » Okay, so we got council announcements.
[4:19:31] Proclamations and flag raisings. We have
[4:19:33] several uh in August. Fier Simco Pride,
[4:19:37] we did that today. Jamaican Independence
[4:19:38] Day on August 6th. National Peacekeepers
[4:19:41] Day August 9th. Pakistani Independence
[4:19:43] Day August 14th. Indian Independence Day
[4:19:45] August 15th. Ukraine indep independence
[4:19:47] day August 24th.
[4:19:50] On to the next slide.
[4:19:52] We have uh
[4:19:55] council uh up and cominging events. We
[4:19:56] have outdoor movies happening in August.
[4:19:58] So uh every Tuesday in August we have
[4:20:01] movies. Check that out please. And then
[4:20:03] we have Carro Fest that is uh happening
[4:20:06] on August uh 15th and 16th. So please
[4:20:09] come out and enjoy Carefest with us.
[4:20:11] Next slide. Council announcements, other
[4:20:13] events and campaigns. We have the
[4:20:14] community grant application that's
[4:20:16] opened now. Please deadline to apply is
[4:20:18] by October 1st. We also have the youth
[4:20:21] council design contest. So, please uh
[4:20:24] share that out. And there's a $150 gift
[4:20:26] card for the the best design. And then
[4:20:29] we have take our accessibility survey.
[4:20:31] So, please uh share that as much as
[4:20:33] possible to share that accessibility
[4:20:34] survey. Uh other ones we have uh events
[4:20:38] and campaigns. So, we have an open air
[4:20:40] fire burn uh fireworks ban right now.
[4:20:42] So, fire burning and fireworks ban is in
[4:20:45] effect immediately. So, please do not
[4:20:47] have any open air fires or fireworks
[4:20:50] uh until the uh ban is lifted. The uh
[4:20:53] last one is our connected edition. It's
[4:20:55] out now. Our It's out digitally and our
[4:20:58] copies will be in our buildings uh very
[4:21:00] soon. So, look for the summer connected
[4:21:03] edition. It has lots of information in
[4:21:05] there for council. Was that fast enough
[4:21:07] council?
[4:21:09] >> Record. Eh, very good. Oh, yes.
[4:21:11] » Record. Eh, very good. Oh, yes.
[4:21:11] Councelor Jordano. I think in the past
[4:21:13] you've promoted other counselor's
[4:21:15] events. Um, but I don't see my event on
[4:21:17] here and we don't have another council
[4:21:18] meeting until the event.
[4:21:21] >> Oh, okay. I was hoping to have the
[4:21:23] » Oh, okay. I was hoping to have the
[4:21:23] graphic and everything else like
[4:21:24] everybody else. Okay. So, uh, August
[4:21:27] 23rd retro block party. Um, is it open
[4:21:30] to the entire town to purchase tickets?
[4:21:32] You can go to www.vipbwg.ca.
[4:21:36] Thank you.
[4:21:38] >> Sorry, we didn't mean to miss that. We
[4:21:40] » Sorry, we didn't mean to miss that. We
[4:21:40] uh, we forgot it. I I apologize about
[4:21:42] that. Okay. 17. Confirmed proceedings.
[4:21:45] Recommendation that bylaw 2022-83 a
[4:21:47] bylaw to confirm proceedings of the
[4:21:48] regular council and committee hall
[4:21:49] meeting dated August 5th 2023 be
[4:21:51] enacted. Moved by councelor Dy. Second
[4:21:53] by councelor Harper. All in favor?
[4:21:55] Carried. Thank you. Ajournment
[4:21:56] recommendation of the meeting hereby
[4:21:58] journ at what time is it? 11:20 moved by
[4:22:01] councelor Kite. Seconded by councelor
[4:22:03] Jordano. All in favor? Carried. Thank
[4:22:06] you. Have a great evening everyone.
[4:22:08] Thank you for join joining