uh microphones everybody just be aware I'm going to uh call to order the
Planning Commission meeting in City Hall here 501 Laurel Street council chambers
for Wednesday July 19th 2023. Mr kravic would you please call the roll Maron
here Gorham here Duvall here Norwood here Grunwald here staying line here
Jaeger yes item number three Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to
two indivisible
okay first thing on our agenda here is an approval of the uh the agenda for
this evening this is item number four do we have any additions changes
substitutions for the agenda all right hearing none I'll be looking
for a motion to approved our motion by staying line and a second by second
Norwood by Norwood very good uh any discussion hearing none all those in
favor signify by saying aye aye opposed same sign very good we have an agenda
first item in our agenda is uh number five this is an approval of the minutes
this is for our regular meeting that was held on June 21st special meeting held
on June July uh July 12th I think yes uh do we have a motion to approve those
minutes so I moved Norwood got a motion to
second group and a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor signify
by saying aye aye opposed same sign we have an approval uh motion carries
approval of the uh minutes okay uh item number six this is uh we're
gonna jump into our unfinished business here the first is item 6A this is a
letter for the DW Jones requesting public art for the uh 805 uh Laurel
Street we've got just a sample letter here uh pretty easy to read but James uh
please uh give us just the brief overview on this if you would please
there's this is not an action item unless we want to make any adjustments
or amendments to the letter uh as it will be submitted and uh I appreciate
all of you looking out on my behalf since it's my name on it
go ahead James thank you Mr chair so Planning Commission directed staff to
write a letter to DW Jones on behalf of the Planning Commission to request a
public art piece as part of the 805 Laurel Street project staff has included
a draft of that letter and like would like Planning Commission to discuss and
recommend any changes to the letter all right very good the letter was uh
not particularly lengthy if you all had a chance to read it that's great if not
no big deal but this would be the letter that we'd be sending out just requesting
uh some information as I believe it was Mr Duvall who brought this originally to
the attention of the commission great great idea here and uh unless anybody
has any objections we'll approve this letter and I'll sign it and we'll send
it out and see what happens Mr chair yes please I would encourage an
additional sentence in here probably following the uh next to the last
sentence in the last paragraph to the effective I encourage you to reach out
to the crossing Arts Alliance or other art organizations and institutions in
our community and region just basically that they don't have to necessarily own
the search or the but the gamut if we can think of them providing the canvas
and working with the Arts Community to be able to to fulfill what's on that on
that canvas so very good awesome yeah it seems yes please well I was wondering
because I had the same
don't rack card or something or that we can
throw in with the letter if not I could run and get one there's
some type of what card like a rack card or uh like we're the from The Crossing
We're The Crossing here's how to get a hold of them yeah we could probably
include something like that in there yeah yep some information on that so
that they because like if I got this out of the blue and I Skip's not getting out
of the blue but I wouldn't know
and I think pointing them in that direction is the right way to go
yep I think that certainly adds some some value to the letter
yeah uh to your point and I'll just jump in
also to your point Mr Duvall I know that the five Wings Arts Council is a uh an
initiative that works with artists and they have in many cases uh money
available to uh to partner with people who want to put art in their locations
we did this for the library over here with their art and so it might be good
just to put them on there also so that's you know Skip's not 100 working on his
own on this but there may be actually somebody else out there who might pay
for it so and just put it on his property so those seem to make that
seems to make good sense to me any other thoughts or additions to this
got what you need James and we got what we need very good thank you very much
and uh Wilkin yes thank you thank you we're good we're going to continue on uh
to our uh new business and our first item is item 7A this is a consideration
of an iup an interim use permit for a short-term rental at 515 9th Street
South um Dylan would you please uh just kind
of give us the rundown on this and then James follow up with Dylan if you have
anything please
thank you and good evening um we are here to discuss an interim use
permit for short-term rental um applied for by stangler Properties
LLC at uh 515 9th Street South Brainerd um this is a parcel that lies in a
traditional neighborhood two zoning District
adjacent uses are duplex rentals uh single-family residential rental and
non-rental as well as the sharing Bread soup kitchen all of the other adjacent
properties are also traditional neighborhood too
included in the packet you can see an aerial map of where we're looking at
findings of fact we note that this is located in a traditional neighborhood 2
zoning district and that according to our table of uses appendix a
um short-term rentals are an interim use in
that zoning District in order
for an interim use to be granted in this zoning District
short-term rentals must comply with the following minimum standards as required
by the section of code the maximum rental period shall not be
more than 28 consecutive nights the applicant proposes the unit as a
short-term rental that will not exceed 28 consecutive nights for a rental
period the permit holder slash owner
of a short-term rental must apply for and receive an interim use permit this
application and process that we are currently going through constitutes the
applicant's attempt to apply for an interim use permit for the operation of
a short-term rental the application for an interim use
permit shall include the number of bedrooms with dimensions and all other
sleeping accommodations I will read through these parts and then go through
them a little more holistically because this um
application includes a lot of redundancies so we have the number of
bedrooms with dimensions and all other sleeping accommodations
the number of off street parking spaces available to guests all accessory
structures outdoor recreational features available for guest use
a pet garbage and noise policy and the permit holder shall post emergency
contact information police fire hospital and show renters the location of fire
extinguishers in the short-term rental unit
um
included in each of these we have that the proposed
short-term rental is a 900 square foot unit with two bedrooms those bedrooms
are 13 feet by 12 feet 6 inches and 10 feet by 12 feet 3 inches that will
become important later as according to occupancy for short-term rentals
there's a limit of not more than three people per bedroom according to section
404.4.1
of the property maintenance code each bedroom shall contain not less than 70
square feet and every bedroom occupied by more than one person shall contain
not less than 50 square feet of floor area for each occupant thereof or
whichever is less thus the one bedroom is 162 square feet
the other is 122 square feet both of those exceed the
100 square foot requirement on those guest rooms
thus the number of bedrooms and the
dimensions that are not only included are included but they are also valid
considerations for bedrooms in a short-term rental
the number of off street parking places as noted in the rules for the particular
rental we have two off street parking spaces
available one allocated in the driveway and one in an alley loaded garage
the only accessory structure available for use is the garage and the
rules policy for the short-term rental clearly states that
there are no pets allowed in the rent short-term rental property garbage and
recycling bins for use are located at the rear of the property and collected
every seven days by waste partners and that there is a quiet hours imposed
between 10 pm and 8 pm the housing inspector upon inspection of
the rental unit will also confirm that any emergency information is
posted at the unit permit holder must disclose in writing
to their renters the following information
contact information managing agent or contacts name address and phone number
and the agent shall be available 24 hours a day seven days a week whenever
the property is being rented and property contact will always be
accessible to the public on the city Brainerd website our applicant Mr
stangler is the responsible party and resides within 50 miles of the
premises which is required for an agent occupancy in the maximum allowed guests
is listed within the rules as has been previously discussed
vehicles maximum number of vehicles recreational
vehicles and trailers allowed on the property which needs to be noted and the
rules clearly state that renters are not allowed to park more than two vehicles
at the premises at any one time in designated off-street areas this would
also include Vehicles such as trailers as referenced
barring any further questions it is at this point no written
communication has been put forward to the community development
director or our department with concerns on this interim use permit
um yes I will hand over to James for our
discussion of Staff recommendations very good thank you Mr Edwards James please
yeah so um Dylan it's kind of summarized the
findings of fact there what I'll be discussing is just kind of a refresher
on interim use permits and and kind of the difference between a conditional use
perm and interim use so interim uses are similar to conditional uses in which
they are allowed provided they meet the conditions the city May attach whatever
reasonable conditions are deemed necessary to mitigate anticipated
adverse impacts associated with the proposed use so really the primary
difference between an iup versus a cup is that an iup can impose a date or
event that will terminate the use also a change in the city's zoning regulations
can render the use non-conforming and it terminates the interim use so those are
a couple of the big differences staff did forward an email from council
member Johnson with concerns about the short-term rental in opposition to the
iup um kind of a summary of that email from
councilman Johnson is the Eda believing stangler was building long-term housing
awarded stangler property sixty thousand dollars of government funds to create
the housing stangler properties proposed uh singular properties accepted the
money to build housing I oppose the interim use permit because I believe
both units of this government Finance duplex should be long-term housing
options for people in our community staff certainly understands the concerns
from councilman Johnson housing is something that Brainerd certainly a
short on right now and as a major issue facing the city and it is also an
important goal of the comprehensive plan however based on a review of the land
use applications and the findings of fact 515 South 9th Street has met all
the conditions for a short-term rental and staff recommends approval of the
interim use permit with the following conditions first one is an approved
inspection by the fire marshal I'm believe Dave Cox was going to be
reaching out to Mr stangler for that final review the fire marshal is
required to do a yearly inspection on short-term rentals
second condition is the middle of the local option sales tax form to the
finance department which is a requirement to the interim use and
number three upon sale of the property by Mr stangler property or by stangler
Properties LLC the interim use permit for a short-term rental at 515 9th
Street South Brainerd Minnesota is no longer valid
so with that certainly can answer any questions from the commission and Mr
stangler is here if you have any questions for the applicant very good
thank you Mr cram Vic commission members do we have any questions for staff
either uh Mr Edwards or Mr kranvik at this time
yes please Mr Gorham is this the third time we've we've gone through this in
the last two years or is the second time because I know we've we've taught we
discussed the property before so this property has gone through two variance
requests the first one expired came in for a variance request because that
first one expired for essentially the same thing they were approved both times
and then this one is for the short-term rental okay
did you mean short-term rentals or just this property well just this property
because I think it's three on short-term rentals also if I'm not mistaken right
and then we've gone through or at least since I've been here a short-term rental
on First Street and then two of them on South 6th Street in the same unit as the
triplex okay pretty good any other questions for
staff Mr chair please I've got one and it's on
the the third condition um I I understand and I've seen cities
do this where they say on sale the property or transfer of the property
this is owned by LLC though right that's correct so someone could buy the
LLC and you could transfer that
essentially yeah you could transfer it from a company okay
so this is really not a condition
if that were to be the case that they'd actually buy the LLC okay I just I I'm
it it
yeah did our attorney like look at that third condition and all like is that is
that something you would run by him or not because it
I'm just it seems like a uh a thing that we couldn't do but I've seen cities do
it I'm just wondering if I didn't run it by the City attorney certainly there
could be a triggering effect or an end date for an interim use permit um so
that's my rationale behind it but uh General
can't attach conditions to to individuals
so you know like I can say like I wouldn't allow you to do it but I'd
allow you to do it it becomes problematic yeah I could certainly run
it by the City attorney before I really even want to do it because
like I said you if you're gonna transfer it you would just sell the LLC and keep
the name okay I'm with you I don't care either
way I just was interested in the thought process yep I think that's definitely a
um a good comment there okay very good any other questions for staff
okay uh this time I'm going to go ahead and open the public hearing it does uh
617 and we'll invite anyone who might like to come forward including the
applicant you don't have to but if you would like to you can come forward uh
I'm assuming we don't have anyone online no one online so that leaves only you if
you'd like to come forward again you don't have to
um but at this time the public hearing is now open and I invite you for it if
you'd like thank you thank you very much just state
your name and address please for the record here my name is Eric stangler my
address is 7384 Lone Oak Road in Brainerd
um and so we just built this property last
fall and um well I guess I'll address one thing
stangler properties is like I started that with one little house and we owned
many properties it's gonna get passed on to my kids it's never going to be sold
it's not like we're a huge corporation but
um as far as this uh property goes our intent was always the same and that was
to rent for Extended Stay to traveling nurses
and doctors or techs or whoever may be coming to the hospital
my wife worked in the ER or several different locations from Essentia to
Cayenne Regional Medical Center and the Brainerd Lake Surgery Center and we saw
that there was a huge need for like those people that were traveling to stay
um so that was why we initially came up
with the plan to build this property now when we found out that there was a grant
that was available that did not have any strings attached to it and we could you
know get that money I looked I think there's over 20 HUD programs but they
all have specific requirements for what you can use that property for
and this grant didn't have that so I understand the council member's concern
but as far as us meeting the requirements I I guess I
don't really see the the logic um
so the other thing is the traveling nurses they go on a
13-week rotation so we filled the one unit right away the second unit didn't
fill so all we're trying to do really is bridge the gap so our intent is not to
keep this as an Airbnb for ever for as long as we own the property
it's to get us to where we can keep turning over
Extended Stay traveling nurses doctors or techs and so that's the intent I know
it's kind of you know we furnish the units and
um you know we got a lot of extra money stuck into them if we're going to do a
long-term rental we wouldn't have done that so we kind of
and we can't go 13 weeks without renting out an entire unit so that's why we're
applying for the interim use to get us to the point where we hopefully can find
a traveling nurses doctors whoever it may
be to occupy the unit very good thank you uh do we have any
questions for our applicant just hang out just one sec just in case
yes please sure can I restate what you said and just
make sure that I understand sure um you you're doing 13-week rentals to
nurses but if you've got one that doesn't fill you'd like the option to be
able to do short-term rental until you get the next 13 week one in
well our so this is a two unit building so the one you filled right away yeah
yeah yeah and the other this one did not so right we're applying for the permit
to get us to the point where we can find somebody that will fill that so our
turnover with the the nurses we had a doctor that was doing clinicals here
first then we had a nurse and then that nurse actually found another traveling
nurse so we didn't really have any Gap well
the other unit hasn't filled so we're applying for the permit so that we can
at least generate some sort of income out of that until we get to that point
which hopefully we do until you get to having a a trialing nurse or someone in
there correct okay okay and a little bit of background I
mean we we bought the first rental the first long short-term rental ever in uh
Ironton cuyuna bike house and operated that for a few years and then we sold
that and turned a couple of smaller units like these in Crosby in the
short-term units and it's not all that it's cracked up to be yes it makes a
little bit more money we're trying to transition even the ones in Crosby into
these Extended Stays because there's so many Travelers coming into our
communities and they're staying at hotels and this is better for them and
it's better for the community in my opinion
good any other questions for the applicant yes please Mr Duvall thank you
Mr stangler um so you're describing that you've had difficulty attracting
qualifying long-term applicants is that what you're implying for for the one
unit that remains vacant or
yes so the intent is to do basically the nurses doctors techs work when they're
traveling they're on a 13-week schedule so and those come in waves so we've
filled the one unit we haven't been able to fill this unit and that's why we're
applying for the interim use could you describe
you know what what your efforts have been to try and attract
qualified applicants for for the housing unit
um well like I said my wife worked in the medical field here all over the
um City at Baxter Crosby and so she's put out a lot of feelers with people
that are still friends that she has that still work in those areas we've also
contacted the uh um
I forget the title now but basically who who manages The Travelers at the
hospital and you know if you have somebody that's interested Point them
our way and we just not have not been able to fill this unit we haven't filled
the other two we had one traveler over in Crosby and then that fizzled out so
it's been an uphill battle but I think we're still optimistic that we can get
all four units filled with Travelers and do that in a way that uh is beneficial
for the community and the hospital and The Travelers so they're not staying in
hotels while they're here sure yes please
um you know it it seems like you're you're targeting a fairly narrow segment
of potential renters for for a couple bedroom
bath units which are very desirable rental units in the city of Brainerd I'm
I'm I'm wondering to what degree you're open to
broadening your potential
list of candidates to to go beyond the medical professionals to other families
within the city or coming to the city for long term and looking for long-term
rental what are your what are your thoughts on on broadening that
that application that that pool of people that you'd be trying to
attract to fill your unit we're 100 open to that and we have
filled it with our units in Crosby when they were working on the power line up
there we had people that stayed at the cuyuna bike house all winter long so
we're willing to rent out to anyone that's going to be staying long term
the issue that we have is you know construction is not cheap and the fact
that we just built this building our rents have to be a little bit higher
than what a normal two-bedroom one-bath rental property long-term rental would
be in the city of Brainerd not to mention we keep them furnished so you
know if if we have a family that's going to move in there for six years then we
have to take the furniture out because you know one thing about having
short-term rentals is they get cleaned every week or every other day or every
couple weeks or whatever it is every 13 weeks and there's always issues you know
even with these brand new ones I had to fix a light like we're always in there
keeping them in Tip-Top shape and so you know our field of of what we're you know
targeting is small but in order to even more make the mortgage payments on a new
construction in the city of anywhere that's
you know that was our intent that's how we set up our financials for it and it
was really the only way that we could have done it
you know and I and I understand um and I I don't have uh you know any
any qualms about the business model you're using to try and get at
you know managing the finances the books to make this this build work out I I
kind of get that um I I think a couple things that strike
me uh you know one is by by narrowing down your
narrowing down your focus whether you may
be running into the federal fair housing act by by excluding people it's almost
like choosing families over over um
individual tenants blending you know you might be running crosswise there with
federal fair housing act if you've not looked into that already but the other
point is that that you know the housing study that was done a few years ago for
Crow Wing County including brainer really highlights the need for long-term
Workforce housing and you're describing members a section of the workforce of
Brainerd you know the the Medical Professional is a is a part of our
Workforce in in here and and and the need for providing long-term housing is
pretty highlight highly identified as a high priority in our in our housing
study it's identified as a high priority in our comprehensive plan and and what I
what I see here is a proposal that's actually taking
long-term Workforce housing out of the pool in
returning it in a short term use that doesn't really help us with the long
Ledger sheet of Need for for Workforce housing here in the in the city so
that's a that's pretty much very much a concern I guess that's a comment more
than a question so thank you Mr Spangler for your answers
um I guess just to that I you know our we're not I'm very well
aware of the discriminating against um and we're not saying that we're not
turning people away the issue is the price point that we need to be at in
order to support the build that we did um people that are doing long-term
housing just aren't able to spend that much on a rental unit so you know down
the line you know this this building is not going to be probably extended stay
short term forever eventually it will turn to long-term rental and it's a
beautiful building it's built well and it's going to be there for a long long
time so you know I think this is just a like a section of its life that we need
to get it to where it needs to be and then it'll be part of the housing pool
in the city of Brainerd you know we're not going to own this building for 30
years it's so yeah in the efforts that you describe
to try and attract applicants really came down to sort of word of mouth and
and and and I didn't I didn't hear that that you had advertised with a with a
price point there my my guess is as a landlord myself in the city that you you
would find qualified tenants that would meet your
background criteria or your screening criteria that that would be able to pay
a higher end and look for something that's nice like that you know because I
agree with you it's a nice looking building I've not been inside I've seen
it in planned views during the 10 months ago when you had that before so
anyway I'll if I could comment sure
um so yes the we I guess I kind of lost my train of thought but
um sorry I guess one thing I was going to
say before that the fire marshal actually was out yesterday too and did
his inspection as well so I guess that portion has already been done
it's pretty good thank you any other questions for the applicant
okay thank you very much I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing at uh
6 31 here and I'm going to bring it back to us for a discussion so further
requirement is granted and that it is not used
for that use for a period of time is that an issue going back to using it for
that does that make sense what I'm asking James yeah so I I really looked
at this uh and considered you know how that would
work you know the use is still a duplex um so whether it's a rental or
interviews obviously there's more stringent conditions set upon the
interim use permit with the public hearing conditions that can be can be
put upon it um so unless there was a triggering
event in staff's interpretation where uh you know say say it's a short-term
rental and then you know the Planning Commission wanted to put a trigger in
advance saying that once it's a long term or Extended Stay then the interim
use is void um really I think what we did what we
work well with the applicant is that he'd have to notify staff when it's when
it's being used as a as a long-term rental versus a short-term rental
okay so there's nothing like inherent unless we decide to put something there
that that's all staff's interpreting it okay
hmm you know quick questions for staff
otherwise we can discuss amongst ourselves here yes please Mr Duvall Mr
chair I'd like to make a motion please to deny the interim use permit for
um 15 or 515 9th Street South in Brainerd
or short-term rental application all right we have a motion
their second
second we have a motion in this in a second
um is there any discussion on this Mr chair
yes please I would just ask what what would be the findings
that would support the motion
Mr chair if I may yes please um the findings of fact that I would
offer are that the variance application that was approved 10 months
previous findings of fact there were
supporting the application for a variance at that time that was findings
of fact three B which stated when variances are consistent with the comp
plan staff believes this variance requests are supported by goal one of
chapter three of the comprehensive plan which states provide a diverse mix of
housing choices for all stages of Life income ranges and ownership rental
preferences and they highlighted specifically policy five which says
ensure an adequate supply of quality in affordable housing units for current and
future residents and and what's proposed here tonight does not support the
findings of fact that we offered in support of the variants in
um September 21st 2022.
Mr chair please yeah go ahead guys I actually have a
different take than you and and when I look at
people trying to provide housing that would be Workforce housing that would be
housing that um you know could could fill this kind
of need that we're talking about with the the traveling nurses but also fill
needs for people who are kind of at a startup position in life
there's a there's there's time in that market when you're going to have
vacancies there's time when you're going to have extended vacancies and the idea
that you would not be allowed to do a
short-term rental on that or an interim an interim type rental what it does is
it makes a higher burden for people wanting to provide that particular
product and for me I think if we want more of that product we should give the
people who are providing that product a lot more options to fill those gaps it's
going to bring more people into the market it's going to make uh you know it
easier for people to do that and actually think that the outcome you're
worried about which is we're going to have less
Workforce housing if we allow this type of use I actually think we're going to
have more Workforce housing if we allow this type of use as a supplemental
for people in the gaps to fill in those gaps when they have short-term Revenue
problems Mr chair if I may respond to that and I
and I agree very much with the the
idea you're expressing Mr Marone and I I think what we have no control over is
whether that short-term rental goes towards
um medical professionals who are transitory
in our in our community or VRBO or
um Airbnb I think was the phrase that that
the applicant had used here is sort of the platforms that it turns into
vacation rental space and the vacation rental space is what
detracts from meeting our Workforce housing needs and we have no control
over saying you can only rent to Workforce people in our community right
and if we say short-term rentals are okay and that's and that's the part that
I'm getting and I fully agree with you in the the other aspects of the
workforce Community out there and the way to fill in these slots in our in our
rentals Mr chair and I I I I get where you're
coming from I I don't know as I would
if we were talking about like a lake home or something
maybe we could find some common ground on that one but you know this is not
this is not going to be a high end vacation rental
so I I you know just PR in practicality applying that particular concern to this
property to me it would be a little bit overstated like I don't think that I the
the likelihood of that is very strong I'd be interested to know what
what the um rental history is for the other
two vrbos that we have or excuse me there's two other short-term rental
permitted properties we have here which are not Waterfront beach front I think
once up on North End and one's on on the south end of town and not exactly what
you'd think of as vacation property but it's a place to
anyway very good thank you further discussion
yes please Mr Corner yeah one question when the um maybe uh staff could help me
on this when the study was done looking at Workforce housing and how to address
it was um was short-term housing ever a part of it in other words with the sixty
thousand dollars that was allocated here 65 whatever it was was was there uh a
need um recognized to provide for short-term housing in other words was
that part of the equation um that the funders had
from the initiative Foundation funding so I don't believe I don't believe that
uh was part of it I'd have to go into the the study to see if there's anything
related short-term rental in Crow Wing County study I'm not I don't know that
offhand because I think they're just to continue
I think I think there might be a valid I think there is a valid market for it but
we don't understand it I don't understand you know we don't understand
how big it is or maybe it's just so small we shouldn't be concerned about it
I don't know and uh but I I can see how it is
something can help fill a niche but also can see how it's something that could
um say well let's take in these uh short-term things at a higher rate than
as opposed to having to turn to Market and provide the real long-term housing
we need which was probably the intention behind the initiative Foundation
so that's my thinking anyhow thank you
other comments questions okay well I'm just going to jump in with
my thoughts here uh when I've when I first saw this come through I will admit
that this landed on me all wrong mostly because of my background with deed and
being part of the group that gave the sixty thousand dollars or was
was a part of that in initially when I when I first reacted to this it landed
on me all wrong also um and to your point uh I know um Mr
stangler that you've said that there was nothing on you know in that application
that prevented you from doing this but I would also just like to ask staff to
just follow up with that and just verify with the people of deed to make sure
that there isn't something that we're missing here which disqualifies this
type of use um
and then coming and that being said that's not really a part of what's in
front of us tonight totally get that um that being said I've also kind of
been on both sides of the fence of this I've been a part of the long-term
long-term housing conversation been a big proponent of that still am but I've
also noticed that myself in in sitting in other city meetings with short-term
rentals and um uh have been going through life
somewhat per blind with what these what what these uh what these types of
dwellings really can do for a community so uh while I would probably prefer to
have a long-term residence here I also understand the need for people who are
moving in between residences people who are only in town for short-term work
traveling service providers seasonal visitors people who have lost their home
due to fire or to other construction issues or kicked out of their house for
construction issues and there's also a whole list of people who need short-term
Living For Life circumstances things beyond their control that happen in
their life that force them to move out of their house or their dwelling without
with very short notice so um
I can I can also see that there's a need for this also in a short term in our
community I will always come back to the fact that what concerns me most is
behavior and what I see visually with my eyes
when I look at a property this means upkeep whether it be by an owner that's
a renter or a long-term owner and behavior whether it is a rental or a
long-term owner because believe me we have good and both in both good and bad
in both scenarios some of our most problematic people that come before us
are long-term owner occupiers we we know this right so I guess where I'm at on
this is is I'm struggling I find that taking the path of saying that this
doesn't fit our our comprehensive plan is a bit of a reach for me personally
I'm very close to neutral on this and that's why I'm going to be asking for a
roll call vote on this but that's that's kind of where I am and I I think that uh
just generally we need to to be a little generally more open-minded that
short-term rental doesn't mean keggers every weekend and trash in the street so
I think there's there are other functions behind that so yeah
um if there's uh yes please Mr Norwood
sorry I'm dying um
currently I'm in the position of not supporting the motion
um
under the premise of the it's difficult there's other ways to
skin the cat so I agree with the the motioner but
there's there's I agree but I can't support it
if that makes sense it doesn't make sense I've been there
many times
further discussion okay we have a motion to deny I just want to be clear make
sure everyone's got this straight we have a motion to deny in a second uh so
and we're going to be voting by roll call if you vote if you vote Yes you're
voting for a denial of this iup if you vote no you are voting uh to uh to allow
the iup to happen okay does that sound right everyone all right very good I
feel like there should be a separate motion very good
if this one doesn't pass okay so would you how would you like to
play this would you like to vote first and then make a motion after this motion
and then we can have a second one very good
all right here we go drum roll everyone and Mr cramp go ahead James is going to
uh call the roll maroon a post
Gorham no Duvall yes
Norwood no onwald no staying line yes Jaeger and
that's no so I would I would make a motion uh to
uh recommend the the interim use permit be approved based on the findings
provided by staff with the three conditions recommended by
staff I would add to the third condition since
we're we're going down this road anyway we might as well go all the way I would
say upon sale the property by stangler Properties LLC comma or transfer of
ownership within stangler Properties LLC comma the interim use permit for
short-term rental da da Mr chair yes please would the motion or
be open to an amendment to that motion to include a two-year term on the permit
to expired December 31st 2025. point of order yes uh point of order
just for a second and I'll second the motion
okay just so that way it got it yeah I respect what you're asking but no I
don't really feel a need to do that
all right so we have a new and exciting motion and a second on the table here is
there any uh further discussion it
I know I seconded it but where Mr Duvall was headed is the
general direction of where I was headed for you just beat me to make an emotion
and so so you're saying head your bets two years we'll look at it again if it's
not a problem I I the reason I wouldn't do that is because I feel like we're
just adding I mean the petitioner was suggesting
that there is a time delay as to fulfill the proposed
business plan so you're saying in two years that delay
should be resolved and then this is not needed I
the the timing is as far as the timing it
I'm indifferent to the timing I just believe that it needed a close date
and so if if Mr Duvall is asking for a did you say
two years two years expiring December 31st 2025.
that's I've go ahead I'm indifferent to the the time I'm that's the debatable
part that we can uh well I can tell you where I am on
that debate we've allowed to my knowledge we have approved two of these
in the last 24 months into my knowledge that condition wasn't attached to either
one of those two so my concern is is that we are unfairly or or perhaps uh on
we are in we're doing this in a way that is not
um in in alignment with the way that we have approved the other so that's my
concern with attaching uh and forgive me was that in a tn2
agreed yeah Mr chair if there's a Nexus between what the applicant has said his
business plan is and what you know other Commissioners would want that would help
us get to a recommendation I'm I'm fine
considering it but I I guess I'm kind of with you like I like let's
just we're gonna do it let's do it
uh well it's on you you're being asked to change your motion
yeah and I guess maybe I'm doing a straw full like is this going to be like is
everyone going to vote against this because like it'll be here all night
maybe let's call the question and if people will not vote for this one then
uh I'll change it I'd like to also remind this commission that we are
advisory so yeah whatever the outcome is of this um city council ultimately will
be making the decision on this but uh I would encourage us to just uh pull the
trigger on something here
so I'm not hearing a Amendment to the motion so we're going to do this by roll
call also now one more time if you vote uh yes in favor of this you are agreeing
to allow the interim use permit to be permitted if you vote no you are voting
no and remember that there were three conditions the third one was briefly
modified I'm not going to go into the details of that any questions on this
before we roll call this all right James here we go maroon yes
Gorham yes Duvall yes Norwood yes gruenwald yes staying line yes Jaeger
yes wow oh there we go very good thank you
um will you please Mr cranbic just kind of let the applicant know what uh what's
going to happen next next steps yep so this will go to the next city council
meeting which is on August 7th and they will vote for an approval or denial of
the interim use permit very good thank you Mr cram Victor thank you for coming
thank you okay we're going to move on to uh item 7B this is the consideration of
allowing mixed-use buildings in the commercial Corridor District Mr kramvick
please yes thank you Mr chair uh so just a
brief summary at the June 28th Eda Workshop staff proposed allowing
mixed-use development in the commercial Corridor District to incentivize
Redevelopment in the district and to maximize housing opportunities for
potential developers kind of along with this as well staff is also proposing and
the Eda is uh you had a kind of a general consensus at
the workshop that they're interested in creating a a similar River to rails
District along the commercial Corridor District part of the commercial Corridor
district is already in the river Trails but extending it kind of all the way to
the Cub Food area the river Trails District just is kind
of a reminder waves all building permit fees up to 150 000 of construction value
as well as waving sack and whack and park dedication fees so one of the
things that the Eda [Music]
the workshop had directed staff to do was to talk with Brainerd Public
Utilities as well as our public works department to see if the utilities can
handle waving sack and whack fees but so so staff will be doing that tomorrow
but tonight's consideration is whether mixed use development could be done in
the commercial Corridor District as well staff would look at that this is similar
to The Main Street District in which the first floor residents units are
prohibited so right now our Main Street District runs from Front Street down to
the mid block of maybe Norwood and Oak Street and then from 5th Street to a
street so essentially no residential is allowed on the first floor that's
essentially how staff sees as a potential for the commercial Corridor
District I did include in the second page here
an example so this is Moorhead this is a city where I grew up so this is First
Avenue North it's a I think a pretty good representation of what we kind of
see with Highway 210 this is kind of a Gateway into Moorhead and in a similar
location in in and close around downtown you see here is a 2008 picture pretty
sparse development there's a the railroads actually on the left hand side
some industrial uses over there if you go down to the 2002 picture here's a
picture the the appear to allow complete residential on the left-hand side but
there is a mixed use development that was was created on the right hand side
so besides allowing more residential into this kind of Gateway into Moorhead
it also really spurred development from some of the existing businesses that
aren't mixed mixed-use development there's a brewery that kind of expanded
and doubled in size because of the amount of residents that are in here and
then there's also a number of other businesses that because the amount of
residents that are in this area it really spurred development and and has
kind of revitalized this whole Gateway into Moorhead so just kind of a quick
example and this is really just a discussion topic tonight
um you know seeing if Planning Commission does want a direct staff to
look further into potential potentially allowing mixed-use development in the
commercial Corridor District right now it's just essentially a business
district um and there is no parking requirements
in the commercial Corridor District so that would some you know maybe have to
be some type of consideration um but with that I'll turn it over to
the Planning Commission you did see there's a there are currently five
mixed-use development buildings within the commercial Corridor District those
are considered legal non-conforming at this at this time but I'll turn it over
to the Planning Commission for any comments or Direction very good thank
you Mr cranvik all right guys any uh
questions comments considerations discussion
I think it's a great idea
they've been through that area in Moorhead
properly went to that Brewery
probably I can admit to anything but it's it's um it's pretty amazing the
amount of people are all walking around
are you envisioning this as a conditional use
or as a so yeah mixed use development is a conditional use kind of throughout all
of our districts so it ended up being a conditional use yeah okay
I think that's the key for me also hugely powerful tool but
it's allowed but we're you know then allowed to attach conditions to better
control any other questions for staff comments
Mr chair yes please Mr Gorham my question a lot of it uh to you Mr
krampik sent us around what is Washington Street going to look like
when the when the redo is done in other words is it going to be the kind of
street that will actually support what we're trying to do I like that you have
mixed use on there I think that's tremendous I think it's something we've
kind of talked about before of trying to turn Washington Street and slow it down
and get more out of it and create a more hospitable place and the question is do
we think the highway plan as presented so far I guess it's done at this point
is it going to support it you know that's something I can bring up
with the public works department as well our city engineer to get his thoughts on
that part and certainly provide a report kind of on the the next part if we do
bring some type of draft ordinance um I think you know to your point of
trying to slow traffic down you know right now some of these places and you
see you see in the the 2008 picture it's just these large expanses and you know
the more you have these large expanses the you know it kind of feels almost
more like a super highway that's going through here you know traffic speeds up
you know one of our con or one of our conditions within the commercial
Corridor district is to bring buildings closer also adding height is going to
kind of frame this and and I think you know have the desired effect of
potentially you know helping slow traffic or calm traffic slightly
thank you yes sure yeah Brent can you freeze that
picture for just a second um
wouldn't it be cool if you had like a Skyway across and you know thinking
about the thinking about the Washington example I mean being able to join these
kinds of buildings to to to provide another way across a busy
State Highway in addition to all of the the things that are in the design for
2025 or 2026 reconstruction of Washington Street so this this kind of
what you see there would lend itself to being able to to give you that
alternative and you can imagine those being a publicly accessible uh maybe
it's a stairwell elevator system on the corner of those buildings that gets you
crossed as well so it's also going to be able to serve our Ada folks as well so
just a comment about ways to that that could help us
we do actually have a couple of examples of kind of what this looks like when
both The Sawmill Sawmill which has main floor commercial residential above as
well as the bicycle shop same similar kind of concept sitting close to the
road commercial on the bottom storefront on the bottom residential on top so it's
kind of a little bit the look
any other discussion um Mr chair yes please I'm I'm
enthusiastically in support of the idea of mixed use in this area I
I think this is rather hideous in a lot of ways
um just from a design standpoint and I mean if you
if the idea is we want to restrict the first floor to Commercial and the rest
be residential I I've seen a lot of success where instead of doing it that
way you actually have what would be a very light architectural
standard uh not the kind of architectural
standard where you're speccing the type of siding and the color and all that but
you're expecting where the door opens up onto uh how wide the ground floor units
can be so you don't get kind of a monolithic you know thing if you look at
the building on the left it's actually pushed back quite a bit from Where the
Sidewalk would be and the openings are not on that side so if you're walking
through there it's kind of as almost as desolate as it was in the pre-picture
there's really no interaction on the other side you get a little bit of
interaction but the doors are on the side of the building not on the street
side and so you lose that kind of connectivity
I I tried one in Greenville South Carolina not too long ago where they had
a similar concept but on the first floor they were very flexible about
residential and Commercial and they were they didn't have enough commercial to
fill the space initially and so they had a couple that were residential on the
first floor but they from the street wise they opened up the same way and
they looked the same way and I talked to the developer and he's like yeah as soon
as we fill these we're going to make these commercial too but again kind of
like with the last one it was a way to cash flow it in the interim because
there was more residential demand than there was commercial demand I also you
know step back and look at the second and third stories and
yes you know having them as residences is really great but when you allow them
the flexibility to also be office or something else again you you just get a
building that functions more like the Easy Rider store would have functioned
historically or the the the Samoan with a function historically
where you're kind of
you know whatever works as long as it's at this scale
I think what we'd want to get away from is the idea that like on the left you'd
have one big wall for a you know 500 feet with no uh no you know no breakup
in the continuity no human interaction because that just kills your your
walkability so I'm enthusiastic but I wouldn't I
wouldn't approach it the way that it's being recommended I would tweak
the standard a little bit uh from what is being recommended
all the comments so so basically broadening the staff assignment to
to bring in some sort of architectural considerations
um in addition to just sort of that
residential use as they're proposal yeah I I feel like
developers would be more open to it kind of standard that allow them a
lot of flexibility and use in exchange for a little bit of um
you know design requirements and we talked about stepping back upper
floors a certain distance in some of our previous conversations through the comp
plan and and the development of the ordinance here
right that that storefront and maybe you step back from the street on the next
level up or maybe two levels up and gives you less of that that wall effect
and more texture if you would a visual texture to the wall it would depend on
the the place um you know if you have a wide Street
width you can go quite a bit up before it starts to feel that way
on a narrower Street you you've got some height
yeah the height would be different but in this Zone I mean I you could go
three or four stories before you had that effect
in any way commercials Corridor correct is
Washington Street yep that's correct so commercial
corridor from the river to about the Cub Food area that's that's considered
commercial Corridor Cub Food then would be General commercial any kind of kind
of the certain models around it and then once you cross the river that's General
commercial as well so we have some defined
parameters within the road in the the width of what we're talking about yeah
you generally I mean it's a kind of a three to one six to one ratio of width
to height gives you a good proportions so you
wouldn't you wouldn't want to step back until you exceeded that
and that's a pretty big building
yes please Mr cranbic yeah so I do think Mr Marone made some some excellent
comments there on the building look certainly when I look at the building on
the left-hand side you know there's really no interest to that and and uh
you know it doesn't look like a particularly pleasing building
um I know just getting the resonance down here is what really has spurred
development to some of the other buildings so kind of my recommendation
with this is uh we haven't really talked about you know kind of next steps after
our parking ordinance so and I do have that in my staff report where the
parking commission will be meeting August 2nd to go over the parking
ordinance and then at the August meeting we'll bring the draft of the parking
ordinance and then there's kind of next steps on what we work on next
um so staff was going to recommend actually looking at our design standards
um at our next one and and taking a look in our in our general development and
design standards so I think this would be a relatively easy one adding mixed
use to the commercial Corridor but if we did those in conjunction function with
reviewing our design standards I I and staff is going to recommend we look at
it for single family two to four as well as as five plus and multi-family so kind
of looking a whole at a whole thing for our design standards um I think these
could two could be you know kind of done simultaneously
yes please and how much of a wrench does the parking question
how much of a wrench do we throw into if you start requiring parking design
elements into architectural design for mixed use
so yeah so right now we're working on the parking ordinance um parking parking
commission is going to review out one thing that we did toss around with the
next one is in our Main Street downtown district maybe there's a requirement to
um you know have half the amount of required parking spaces
um for a place or you know maybe simply that uh that there's gonna have to be
some type of parking plan provided by the developer in order to to
construct a project like this as part of a conditional use permit so there's a
couple things I think we still have to work out with our parking commission as
plant and Planning Commission on you know how this would really work because
obviously you know a large building like this would need parking so whether it's
you know whether they're coming some agreement to a property next to them
some joint you know joint agreement or they're doing underground parking
um you know that's kind of how staff envisions that but uh you know getting
some direction here would you know maybe help provide us some direction then as
we're going to the Planning Commission and kind of future
um future parking commission meetings on on working on the parking ordinance
thank you James yeah Mr Norwood I'll just jump in on that also I would say as
a I mean from a developer's perspective parking can have a huge impact on how
you would attack a project or and even possibly complete viability if we were
to say for instance say you have to have underground parking
or something like that you could be potentially imposing
Financial burdens that would make render virtually all
projects you know not not viable that's an extreme case but to answer your
question it could have an impact yes especially if it's minimums
um you know
all right uh just any other discussion conversation here
so staff is looking for us uh you know is is looking for us to direct them to
revise the zoning code to allow for multi-use in the in the corridor
District it sounds like we still have some heavy lifting to do as far as
potential design standards architectural standards even maybe overlaid with
parking standards and that but I think we're just kind of generally you're
looking for some head nodding to say yeah we kind of like where this is going
so at this point I'm going to ask for people who are head shakers not knotters
okay very good you got what you need James you think we do have what we need
all right fantastic this may be just a follow-up if we are
um you know just to build off of what uh director pram said about the cue of
other things that you know as we as we start wrapping up the parking if we
could look at the Grand list and and we you know so as as we think
about um
placing this or something else in that queue just to be helpful just to refresh
ourselves or at this beyond the six-month point be helpful to just
refresh yourself as we've gotten close to knocking off one of those is the are
the priorities still the same and we can bring that to the next meeting yep
we could start meeting weekly
I'm almost there very good uh okay um I was going to move on
we're going to move on now just uh so everyone knows as you read the packet
item 7c was technically canceled for tonight but it was actually postponed to
the next meeting just so everyone knows that we'll be uh re-emerging in our near
future I'm going to move on to item number eight which is our public forum
um I'd like to make a motion relating back to 7A
um to direct staff to investigate approaches
precedence benefits consequences of limiting short-term rentals in our city
and to just report back to us on what examples are out there what's the I mean
we've had some discussion about the pro and con here at this desk and and
whether we could have a look at that um you know and I wouldn't put that I
guess I might put it on that list though stuff but I would like to to see us
have a good careful eye at that and then and then some information we can act on
so I'd like to offer that motion please uh so yeah we have a motion uh there do
you have a grasp on the motion you okay with what we get what he's asking to be
done here okay and we got a motion a second uh any discussion I'm just going
to jump in real quick I think it's probably a good good idea because I have
this feeling in the back of my head that when the comprehensive plan was written
nobody was asking is there a need for short-term rental this is to me
the conference plan perhaps doesn't cover it or address it as a need because
it really didn't exist or was even if it did exist it wasn't acknowledged as uh
as a performing status in our in our community so I think it's a great
exercise and uh for you know good idea for us to get our head wrapped around
how it's doing what other communities are doing and how we can better apply it
so excellent point thank you uh so we have a motion a second any other
discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed
same sign very good thank you okay so I'm going to open the public
forum at 707. uh this is the time for anyone to come forward who have might
have anything they would love to chat about before this esteemed commission do
we have anyone in line I went online and I see no one in the house so I'm going
to close the public forum at 707 and we are going to move on to item number nine
which is Staff reports uh whoever raises their hand first goes first
no one's there we go James kramdick you're up so update on vcv uh so vcv has
not contacted the Community Development Department this is the cryptocurrency
that purchased the industrial park lots they've not contacted staffs and service
plans are approved by the Eda for buildings instead of outdoor storage as
a principal use I do believe they're still working with Brainerd Public
Utilities on kind of final utility plans and getting the power that they need to
their site so um but for the last couple of months
staff has not heard anything about a building permit or or any I guess
anything from them on on that front um I did mention the parking commission
will be meeting August 2nd to review the draft of the ostrich parking ordinance
and a final draft will come back to the Planning Commission on August 16th so
that'll be kind of the final review and then the next Planning Commission would
be the actual public hearing so a few more steps to that
for the draft of the parking ordinance also at the last city council meeting
the council did hold the first reading for the Country Manor planned unit
development District uh so that's the ordinance amendment to create the new
zoning District they did also approve the preliminary and final plat as well
as the concept plan and general development plan for the Pud in order
for the final plat and the preliminary plot to be approved there will have to
be a second reading of the ordinance as well as as well as approval from city
council after that Country Manor will have to work with the city of Brainerd
on a development agreement and then bring a final plan for their planned
unit development so those are kind of next steps I'd anticipate probably two
or three months to resolve some of some of that stuff and kind of last one city
council approved the Redevelopment Tift and Redevelopment Tiff plan for 805
Laurel Street at the last city council as well and with that that's everything
I have very good thank you Mr Edwards you have anything
um yes just briefly and it sort of came up during the discussion of the interim
use permit that this property has had things come along in the past and one of
the things that we were working on in the department is building a running
two-year list at least for the city council level of
the Planning and Zoning processes that have
gone through Planning Commission and city council and where they're at in the
process currently so that we can have a clearer picture of once something comes
through this commission or the council for instance if it's a conditional use
permit and that was supposed to prompt some action and nothing has happened for
two years that might be something that's good to note or in a rezoning or
something along that line so that is something we're actively working on
creating which may be a helpful reference that'll be in our community
development report for city council awesome okay thank you Mr Edwards
anything Mr bomber nothing tonight okay we're going to move to item number ten
this is our commission member reports I'll start with my left anyone who would
like to go promote anything Tiffany Mr Norwood nothing to add I got
in front of you anyways you know that works see I started laughing okay I just
have one quick thing uh I was able to attend I believe was Friday the 14th uh
this was the yeah this is the Italia quartet that happened at our brand new
uh Park uh the Lyman P wide park and it was uh phenomenal I just want to say uh
people there was about 120 130 people there they were having a fantastic time
it sounded good it looked good off in the uh on the Riverside there was about
a dozen kids who were playing on the uh playground equipment which was highly
criticized as to whether or not it would be played upon not a playground it's
play area that the play area and the kids were there non-stop for an hour
over an hour and a half straight and never left so and uh having fun also I
will say that a couple members from the uh from the lake Sarah Music Festival
came forward and uh spoke very highly of the development in our city and just
what a what treasure that was to have something like that in support of the
Arts so uh just wanted to shout out that uh good job to everyone that worked on
that and offer some positive feedback on on our beautiful park down there that's
all I have you anything I knew you're going to say
that anything else uh down the road up yep Mr Duvall
um pass okay very good uh with that we'll be looking for a motion to an
adjournment make a motion to adjourn got a motion to
adjourn second and a second all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed
same sign thank you everyone