everybody and welcome to the November
19th um Administration and operations
committee um thank you all for attending
uh attendants did I see councelor
Chambers council chambers is here so
everybody is on site today which is
great uh anybody have anything to add to
the
agenda councelor Bell uh Mr chair two
small things in any other the business
that's okay okay anybody
else okay seeing none can I get a motion
to approve the agenda as amended mayor
Bailey councel Oakley all in
favor opposed that is
carried okay okay um delegations or
Declaration of pecuniary interest is
there any right now counc garno thank
you Mr chair 8.1 8.1 anybody
else okay if anything arises through the
meeting just let me know uh Del ation we
do have a delegation today is Melanie
here y Melanie is here if you'd like to
come
up okay
Mel if I could just ask that you make
sure the light is on on the microphone
there just push the button yeah green
and if you could just state your name
and address and you have 10 minutes for
your presentation thank you okay um I'm
Melanie MIRS I live at 22 madis in
Branford so I'm here today representing
the St George Children's Center um which
is a Heritage Building located on 38
bever Street in St George so I do have a
slide presentation I don't
know where that
is sorry
scroll down okay perfect so first off I
just want to give you a little overhead
of what St George to Center is and what
it has become over the time frame so um
I'll just first start out with this is
our location so this child care opened
up in 19
1988 as a child care center uh 36 years
ago so since then um we are the only
full-time child care in St George at the
present time there is another program
that offers part day but we are the only
full-time child care in St
George um and started with 16 children
back in 1988 in May of
20122 I was asked to join this team to
try to increase the spaces as well as
try to increase enrollment because um as
most of you know Child Care is something
that is definitely needed in our
community and with growing populations
and expansions and buildings Child Care
is definitely a need in St George so um
when I joined the team it had 45
children the hours are 7 to 5:30 I had a
vision that with this team and the
community we could build more so now the
main site has gone from 45 to 126
children in that location we are
utilizing all rooms at this time um we
also opened another site September 2022
in the school which has uh 20 children
as well and we opened a new location
Little Learners in June um that has 26
children it's operating out of St
Andrew's Church the basement there so um
at the present
time um this is our toddler sorry minute
this is our child room um right now this
is the highest need in our community in
St Georgia the present as of today just
for the main site I have 408 children
needing care um and this is only for 18
months to two and a
half our next group is preschoolers um
this group um at the main site we have
83 children waiting and this is for two
and a half until 5ye olds and this is
our JK school age at the present time we
have no children waiting for this if you
have a JK or School AG child you get in
right away and I'm servicing 60 children
at the present main
location our uh School location is for
our older guys our 9 to 12 year olds and
we have Tony children there and our
full in June as I said we opened up just
after five months of being approved to
the new Little Learners Site we've gone
from 8 Educators to 31 Educators at all
three locations presently at the Little
Learners location I have 142 children
waiting for this program in the 18
months to two and a half and I have 27
children waiting for the preschool
program so I just wanted to give you a
little synopsis of that and why I'm here
today as you know the government has
frozen the funds for all child care as
of 2022 April 1st and we can't increase
our rate R to parents due to the
government program which um is trying to
get us to that $10 of day child care so
with that being said um we are usually
we' use money to from parents revenues
things like that um and different types
of Grants but the grants for child care
have been shut down at this time um due
to new funding regulations so there's no
money for us to help with the upkeep of
this Heritage bill
so we are in desperate need of Windows
Our Heritage our building um we' had
people come in we have we run this
building on the main site we run it uh
with two furnaces because it's such a
big location and we've had the furnaces
service several times and they're saying
we're throwing money out the window
because of the windows the furnaces are
in great shape we're have no concerns
there so uh in your little package
you'll see um this is the main site and
what has sort of happened so our windows
are starting to fall forward um we are
not able to get replacement parts we
can't figure out who the manufacturer is
of these older windows so we some of the
windows we have locked of course if a
window was absolutely broken we would
absolutely get the funds to try to
repair those but it's an overall
existing problem we've got seal failure
we've got vinyl warping we have original
wooden windows in some of the places
that aren't even vinyl which date back
to the
early um I have someone in the window
business that is saying probably in the
early 1960s range of the type of Windows
in some of the areas so as you can see
here you can see that we've got
different types of failure we've got
condensation coming in on the glass as
you can see and we've got those older
wind wood frame Windows as you can see
as well so we've gone forward to get
three type of quotes um with regards to
the windows as you can see we've got
three quotes with regards to that
building if you can believe it has 90
Windows 90 so we are there are tons and
tons of windows it's a beautiful space
lots of Lal light comes in that building
and so we are in need of some of those
funds so I have been in touch with
Jasmine um from uh Heritage and we're
hoping that we can get some sort of
funds or something to a assist with the
process even if we have to do one at a
time we're prepared to do that but I
just uh at this stage we're just
throwing money out the door with the
heating problem because of the poor
windows so I'm here today to present
that to council to see if there's any
funds we will take anything um at this
point uh to help us to um help us with
the window project does anybody have any
questions questions from committee
C
mine so my understanding there's a few
windows in particular that are desperate
to be replaced if you were able to maybe
elaborate on that a bit so we have four
windows that we're going to have to
replace no matter what because the locks
have fallen and they're falling forward
so we have to lock them to keep them
forward um to keep them closed at this
point it's not a fire hazard it's not a
Ministry we're not breaking any rules by
not having them fixed but there are four
bigger Windows um estimated cost toing
around $6,000 for those four to be done
um those are ones that we're going to
start with but um the furnace and
everyone guys are saying to us you know
it's fine through one at a time but the
problem's not goingon to be solved until
you do them all yeah so good just
another followup question um I think my
understanding is you would need
permission from the
the Horseshoe here I guess to have staff
help you with the grants is that correct
um that would be an area for Jasmine
that would be able to speak on that
would you be able to speak on that
Jasmine can I get you to just state your
name for the clerk please sure uh
Jasmine Bard I'm Arts culture and
Heritage officer for County
Brant through the chair M councelor
Miguel can you repeat your question um
I'm just asking that you you need um
direction from the council in order to
go ahead with helping with the grants
applications is that correct uh through
the chair to councel MC Alpine it is
also a designated Heritage building with
bylaw so we need a direction to bring it
to the Heritage committee proper and the
Heritage committee will have to rep
approve the repairs um but yes we're
also looking for grant funding and on
it is this point where I can ask
question from
staff uh let's just stand by we'll
Circle back to you okay councelor how
then councelor Bell thank you Mr chair
through you uh and I think I'm I'm
predicting that maybe Council mpan and I
were thinking in the same direction but
if if I'm not mistaken the way our
process works
sorry councelor how is your time
[Laughter]
zone
um we're just waiting for the countdown
clock okay so um if I'm not mistaken the
way requests for funding requests for
Grants typically the
response is we're going to defer you to
our our grant
process however if it's an emergency
Grant request which is I think what you
meant then we look at it
differently and I'm wondering if uh
staff if Allison could maybe um clarify
my understanding on that but I I believe
that if you're calling this an emergency
Grant request then that's something we
could be looking at Short Term and then
you could still look at the grant
process which happens early next
year through you Mr chair um certainly
Council can direct um staff to
administer emergency funds but I would
have to um ask Finance uh how much we
may have in those
reserves I'll leave it at that for now
Mr chair councelor Bell thank
you through you to Melanie you're
looking for $94,000 to do the whole
piece of work that's what I understand
correct so if it was your house um You'
think well I'll add to my mortgage so if
you were to mortgage
$94,000 a current interest rate I think
you're looking at about $110,000 a year
you'd need to pay for the capital and
and the interest and if you got
152 people that you support that's
$65 a year or about $1 a week have you
thought about a campaign that you make
it clear to the 152 people that are
there parents of the people are there
that if you don't do this you won't be
able to stay in business so you're
basically going to ask them to support
by giving $1 a week and you your problem
will be addressed now I'm being very
simplistic but have you approached it
from that angle as well as asking for
funding from Grants and the
council so we did look into the
the city of Branford the Brant
Foundation grants and those grants were
closed and we found out that this was a
desperate need so that Grant process was
closed we did look that we did look into
some other Ontario grants and we don't
qualify with being a nonprofit and a
charitable program a charitable Child
Care um we cannot legally go to parents
and ask if a parent donates but I can't
due to the regulations of fees and
things like that there's strict rules on
rates I can't ask parents I can ask
parents to donate a gift or a card or
whatever but I'd have to be very careful
in how I ask parents to say you know
we're going to bill you an extra dollar
a week for your child care costs or
something to cover that but we are at
where we are at
financially if if I could have not come
here I would have not come
here mayor Bailey uh through you Mr
chair to Melody uh I had the same
problem when I bought my house and I
have over 60 windows in my house and I
hired someone for the best price to do
the first two windows and uh he
butchered them uh and then I called the
lowest quote on your list which happens
to be your husband Window World uh and
and who's also a rotarian friend of mine
and he came and put the windows in my
house
uh and they they approved it was
approved by heritage obviously and he
also fixed the windows that he didn't
even put in to make them all match which
I thought was very nice of them um but
the savings is incredible in my house uh
because of the new windows I did it over
a number of years too because I I had I
don't know $1,200 a window or something
crazy thing so um but you have the right
players in place and I I don't know how
else we could do it can we have a
capital campaign can I can I do a
campaign for St George and ask people to
support the school for
for for the daycare center can I can I
do that because I mean I know there's
people in St George that know that it's
a it has to be done and enough people in
St George live in Heritage properties
that they know the the heat that escapes
is expensive so I don't know I don't
know whether that's in my realm of
things I can do away from Council
whether I can had a fundraiser for it I
don't know that there's a better CA
right now you've got that many kids
waiting and I was at the opening of your
your second your second daycare at the
at the church the need is huge I mean
their their waiting list is is pregnant
women that haven't even had the babies
yet that are on the list um it's it's
kind of kooky that the need that's
coming to St George and that's without
any visible growth this time in two
years we're going to be talking about a
whole different animal in St George so I
think we need to get our ducks in a row
now um so I counc CHR I don't know
whether so I can help out or not so I
guess my my my question for
clarification on that baile is the fact
are you looking at potentially doing
this as David Bailey or are you looking
at doing this as mayor David Bailey it
would have to be the
mayor because I wouldn't want it to be I
wouldn't want it to be mixed up with my
own Foundation that I already have at
the Brent Community Foundation and
that's in the name of David Bailey so
this would have to be the
mayor um so I think we would have to
have staff look into that to understand
how that would play
out okay uh councelor Miller just a few
questions through you Mr chair to the
presenter um does the daycare own that
building we do okay we have a mortgage
okay um you've got a requesting we don't
have any your financials like are you
guys putting money aside when you when
you get
fees um you have operating costs Capital
costs do you put money aside for Capital
cost we do okay yep
can you talk a little bit about um you
touched on it um I just wonder if you
could flush it out a bit um as far as
you can't you've talked about what you
can't do what as far as raising money
goes like going to the parents what can
you do and related to that question is
you're not the only child care uh Center
in financial distress what are they
doing have you talk to other ones
because I think this $10 a day child
care um has caused a bit of financial
hardship for a lot of daycare so what
have you guys done
specifically um to raise cash or raise
money and what are other child care
center so this isn't my first rodeo I've
been in child care for 33 years I was a
supervisor of all child care centers in
the county and the city for 31 years and
then I came up to St George so I'm well
aware of the other programs that are
sort of suffering and not suffering the
most of the programs uh that have child
carees are in rental situations there
are very few that own the buildings so
they go back to their landlords for
those type of issues um that's with the
survey that I did put out there that's
where they're going back as to their
landlord for that type of thing with
regards to funds and reserves there's
certain money that the government will
take from me if I have too much so I
have to slot it to different slots so I
have learned a little bit as they say to
play the game
and so I can put a capital reserve for
future child care centers but I can't
use some of the money for um to keep up
what I have so I do we do have a reserve
fund that is for if we can build another
Center which St George is going to need
if St George gets a school I we've got
some funds there that we can put into
that um which is capital or new build
fund um so I do have funds for that as
we got so far
so okay I I I I would have appreciated
that
information in your information that you
give us but um and I I'll just kind of
touch on what counselor Bell said
talking about a mortgage or you get a
loan
um and and it's not a bad idea and the
reason I say that is because the payback
on a window as far as I know it's a
capital cost but as far as operating
cost I mean you you'll save the money in
utilities within five maybe four years
if bad you say so um it would be good if
again if you could get that get the
windows in and save on the operating
cost but anyways thank you for
your any other questions Council Garo
thank you Mr chair through to the
presenter U being a Heritage building
are the rest of the walls insulated do
you know what
to whether that's been done or is there
has been some done
yes any other questions
counc McAlpine will'll go back to you
when the time comes I'd like to make a
motion I think now might be the time if
there's no more questions from committee
okay so just to get the ball rolling I'd
like to suggest that we make a grant
from the county for
25,000 and then we work with Dave Bailey
and maybe raise some funds and if we can
direct staff to bring it to Heritage
about other grants that might be
available it's a bit of a mouthful but
okay second to that motion councelor
Kyle
questions councelor Chambers then
councelor house yeah I I'm I understand
the motion I just don't like the process
it would be nice to have a little bit
more documentation on where the money's
coming from and what you going to do
with that kind of thing so uh I would
much rather refer this to either a staff
report for funding options or refer it
to the budget committee but to today
throw
money at the problem and then
uh ask David to do something with the
mayor's that to me is not the way to
solve the problem because it's still
going to leave uh
$75,000 funding shortfall at some point
where if it goes through the grant
committee and that it may be uh there
may be better options is what I'm saying
so I'm not going to support the motion
as it is if the motion fails then I
would put a motion forward to refer it
to staff for funding options uh to
resolve the
problem councelor house and councel open
uh thank you Mr chair uh to the motion I
I am supportive of this uh again I'm I'm
and I don't even know if this is an
amendment or friendly Amendment or just
uh edit that I think you meant emergency
Grant um
and the way I'm looking at this this is
$100,000 plus situation and the county
of Brandt is is not necessarily going to
be in a position ever to hand over
$100,000 but if we're able to assist in
getting things started and and the
example that the mayor provided you know
with his own house you know you do the
worst two or three first and and and and
you start start working towards it and
then work towards a capital campaign
with the mayor's help the grant Pro the
normal Grant process uh which is
available to any
nonprofit
organization um so I I I think
approaching this in a multi multitude of
ways is appropriate and I support the uh
the motion as it stands with the word
emergency in
there councelor Oakley then mayor B
uh through the chair to finance staff if
possible um what what monies do we
currently have in regards to Grants and
am I correct in that we actually no
longer have the emergency Grant um uh
tool um I believe that was something we
might have removed in the last
year yeah so we we did remove the
emergency Grant category on the basis
that if during the year Council wanted
to give money on an emergency basis we
would we would make that um happen uh we
do not have any money left in the Emer
in the grants budget for 2024 um but if
Council uh directed I mean certainly we
would come back with how where we could
pull the money from or or defer to 2025
there there's options out there it's
just a matter of how if this
recommendation goes through um as is we
could do a Friday file report just
outlining where the money is going to
come from or if Council wants to defer
it for a report on options then you're
certainly welcome to do that too thank
you very much thanks mayor Bailey
through you Mr chair uh taking a second
sober thought here um I'm just thinking
that it's not the Optics of me raising
money for the school uh when there's a
capital campaign right now for the
library and a capital campaign that
hasn't met its goal for the wilin Center
um I'm not sure how the how that would
look especially in my own backyard so uh
I will help any any way I can but it
would have to be on a on a informal
basis and in a different way because
it's when you have two countywide
Capital campaigns under way way I
shouldn't be raising money for something
different thank
you Council Garo then councelor
Miller thank you Mr chair uh
unfortunately I can't support the
recommendation because I think that we
do have um processes in place including
our grant cycle that's going to reopen
and I'm very mindful
um that we are a large and diverse
Community with a number of Heritage
buildings and I worry about the predent
that we might set that one can come to
council and um more or less work through
a different process that is perhaps not
um Equitable to those who are watching
the timelines and everything and I do
recognize there's there's an emergency
here and my step kids actually went to
this Child Care Program for a number of
years when we were in St George so by no
means is it a commentary on the program
or the people involved but I think we do
have processes in the county that we
have to follow and um as has been the
case with a few things that have come to
me in in my w that I've referred over to
the grants um that is normally the
mechanism we have for that so while I
believe in the work that folks are doing
in the urgency of the situation I can't
support this from a process
standpoint counc Miller and councel
Bell I guess it depends on when you come
and and ask for help for the windows
because
um um depending on what your table you
get different answers because I know St
Joe's and Branford came and asked for
some help with their Windows which they
also badly needed and they were turned
down um I I what coun G say is
absolutely right we do have a process in
place all right for asking for money and
and I don't know I I I don't know how
someone can just give away
25,000 no matter the cause
without at least a little more
information about where the money's
coming from about their finances and so
forth so there's a lot of information
even ask
Heather she says well we're not sure we
have to look into it so we're going to
move a motion staff doesn't quite know
um I don't think if we wait a week two
weeks whatever it's going to make a big
big difference I would rather do it
properly um than just halfhazard and
that motion is halfhazard
Council Bell
yeah thank you Mr CH uh I too cannot
support the motion that's presented this
is a project that has got
a 25 30 year lifetime uh and we need to
think about the better ways of of
funding it because I don't believe you
should just simply give over $994,000
um I would rather translate it into what
does it cost me every year and then I
would say I'm one am I saving every year
by the fact I've got these new windows
in and and I think the differential cost
might be quite small and there might be
other ways of of delivering that that um
differential between what you save and
what you have to spend on an annual
basis so I I'd like to see this come
back with a staff report and and we can
consider all all aspects of it rather
than just giv e jerk
$25,000 okay councilman thank you Mr
chair
and I I would rather see this a deferred
for one cycle
so we can get the staff report back and
get some more information back on
financials and a whole lot of other
things on this and whatnot so I do
remember I think CC Chambers I the last
two they're here that when we did sell
this building to the county or to the
daycare for I think was for a dollar I
remember correctly
so I
support that they need help but I think
we need some more information so I'd
rather see it deferred for one cycle and
come back and do it properly
councelor Kyle you're the only one that
hasn't chimed in you want to jump in on
this or are you good I'm good okay can I
ask a question am I allowed to um I'll
let it go the main purpose of me here
was to get the help from Jasmine for the
Heritage it wasn't necessarily to say
that I need the money from I needed her
help to help me apply for the grants for
the Heritage so that's the main purpose
of me being here is to apply for that
piece
sorry right what right which doesn't
require Council Direction you've
got needed Council direction to do that
so
that's sorry for clarification for an
emergency Heritage Grant yeah direction
if we were to go that
way but the emergency Heritage Grant
would Circle back to us anyway right
okay final word council
McAlpine so I think the way it's going
if we defer it for one cycle for Jasmine
to come back to a report with with the
staff for
appropriate reactions to this I think
that would be
appropriate so if I made that
recommendation that we defer it then for
one ccle okay so you're you're you're
amending your first getting ready your
first motion and now you're your motion
for a deferral for one cycle to allow
staff to
understand where the money would come
from and
emergency yeah that would be
appropriate right we've already got it
approve yes we'll have to defer over
right I think we defer
it deferred for one
Cycle councelor house councelor Chambers
I thank I thank you Mr chair I think I'm
following what's going on but where I'm
I'm a little I've been on the Heritage
advisory committee for seven or eight
years
and the Heritage advisory committee
itself doesn't have any
funding right it come back to us so so
it Al I'm I'm not sure I understand what
the benefit would be of of going through
Heritage committee's blessing on making
modifications to a designated Heritage
building but I I I'm not aware of there
being a a uh a fund of
money that's any different than than the
emergency Grant conversation that we're
having right now so if staff could maybe
clarify that
please three you Mr chair um that's
correct this is not it it's all coming
from the county so there isn't a
specific fund for for herit grants
through the
committee through the chair to counselor
house for clarification because it is a
designated and listed building with a
bylaw um Heritage the Heritage committee
per our planning policy needs to make
determinations on it so that's where the
Heritage component fits within it so the
the grant stream as we are discussing um
is separate to what I would be bringing
to the Heritage committee which would be
decisions on going forward with
modifications to a designated
structure which makes sense because this
doesn't
Okay council
chambers thank you Mr uh chairman
wouldn't it make a lot of sense is to
withdraw the motion which en covers the
whole process and just move a motion uh
requesting a staff uh report on the
issue be presented at their next meeting
and then all the information all the
requests can be Consolidated into
something and then we can deal with
it but to defer the motion which we've
already heard is not going to uh work
because the mayor is unwilling to carry
out what the motion says and now let's
just withdraw the motion which either
that or defeat the motion and ask the
staff to bring a report at our next
meeting then we're not deferring
anything we're just moving forward and
getting the problem solved as fast as we
can Council
mine I'd be okay with that okay second's
good to withdraw second sorry okay
so the Motions been
withdrawed councilor
Chambers I will move that the report the
delegation uh be received and request a
report from staff to be presented on
resolving the issue at our next meeting
there Bailey seconds that so everybody
understands where we're going here
correct
questions all in
favor opposed that is
carried okay thank you I think in a
roundabout way we're going to get where
where we want to go here
so okay moving on to section five
adoption of the minutes from the
previous minute can I get a mover
Council Oakley
second councelor Kyle questions on the
minutes seeing none all in
favor opposed that is carried any
business arising from those
minutes councilor
Miller thank you Mr chair and from a
question I asked about Cleaver R Cleaver
Road Bridge um we were looking that have
been public
engagement uh this quarter um at least
and that's what I tell people told a lot
of people I haven't heard anything do we
have an update on
that Mr Walton in the back you able to
come forward
Miller which thank you which is fine
it's just I last time I was told this
quarter so that's what I tell people so
I don't care when sooner is better than
later but if it's it's first quarter
2025 can I tell people that when they
call me and ask me which they are
calling me and asking
me okay
yeah okay thank you anything else
business arising from those
minutes okay seeing none uh moving on
consent items to be approved we've got
we got a few of them in here um so we'll
go 7.1.1 rp-0 49424 Source water
protection plan can I get a
mover councelor Coleman councelor Bell
questions councilor
Miller thank you Mr chair
um the area that branford's uh this is
applied to I I tried to find that not in
the report I went to the supplements I
think it's in the Oak Park area but I
don't yeah I suspect so but um I wonder
if the author could uh Enlighten us on
this and then one other question
Mr through you chair uh the intake
protections zone two in the county of
brand is the Oak Park area and also
along the r River here in
Paris okay um question maybe more
generally
um we have Source water protection and
and I know how we deal it with it when
it's within our own municipality when
it's in another municipality in this
case Branford for us um and they have a
a planing application and they're
putting up whatever they put up a gas
station a new industry
what's the process for us giving input
on that to make sure that it's not that
the site plan is is doing what or is
written up the way it should be written
up do we do we give input on that what's
the process for
that through you chair to councelor
Miller um so properties within the
county of Brant will be managed through
the County's development application
process um although we are supporting
the um city of branford's Source water
protection updates the policies that our
properties will be applied to are the
policies that we have for the county of
BR Source protection plan which we
approved in the September uh
anal Miller I appreciate the answer but
it wasn't the answer I was looking for
um when another municipality Branford
has a a planning application come
forward and it's in our source water
protection area what what input how do
we give input on that
process it's not in the it's it's in
another M Val but it's our water intakes
over and I could take that in a Friday
file if you don't know the answer so I
think I'm slightly um I'm not
understanding the question uh the county
of Brandt wellheads around our Municipal
Water don't extend into the city of
Branford they don't no so the city of
brantford's intake protection Zone
because it's a surface water intake
extends into the county of brand because
of the travel time for the water to get
down there so there are situations where
our land applications could have a
negative impact on the city of
branford's intake but we manage that
through our
policies so reversing that do they do
they give input then when we build in
their intake
through you chair um they endorse our
source water protection plan so um we
came to admin and Ops in September and
our changes to our source water
protection policies are out for
pre-consultation which includes other
municipalities that are affected by
those policy changes to have an
opportunity to speak to it so they have
endorsed our
changes okay I gotta leave it that thank
you any other
questions okay so it's moved and
seconded all those in
favor opposed that is carried uh 7.1.2
which is rpt 0105 d24 uh design Supply
delivery installation construction of
the MBR system for St George can I get a
mover mayor Bailey Council
McAlpine questions on
that councelor Miller then uh councelor
Bell then councelor Miller couple
questions um this is coming in almost to
the penny 20% over the engineers
estimate um can I get a reason as to why
to the chair to councelor Miller we did
ask our uh Consultants to review in
detail and we think that the scope crept
a little bit it includes some some
different technical technical aspects of
that have to tie into the rest of the
design so they reviewed the design as it
yeah it does make sense along with the
market conditions that we know have
increased prices in the last few years
okay so Mission creep I guess um and and
okay maybe the engine Engineers report
was a little conservative um you had one
bid um now if I go online I look um this
MBR technology it is offered by I seen
at least several
dozen um vendors when you're putting
something like that it's do you treat
this just like a grass tender in other
words you put it up on the site call it
a day and whoever bids bids or do you
actively go out and seek maybe uh
vendors for this technology say hey
we're putting this bid out um are you
interested in bidding in other words are
you doing everything you can to get
vendors to bid or you just standard this
is what we do call the day through the
chair we did have some dialogue with two
different vendors who do some work in
this area uh most of the the MBR work in
Ontario does seem to be offered by
violia um but yeah we wanted to promote
and encourage uh a better competitive
market so we did have some dialog with
with another vendor who does work in
this area but unfortunately they they
didn't submit a bid and we we don't yet
know why okay good answer thank you
councel Bell yeah thank you Mr chair the
same question as Council Miller but I'm
a little disappointed we ended up with
only one uh one bidder question would
use the same technology when we expand
the Paris Water Treatment Plant we are
looking very seriously at MBR we think
it fits very well well with the the
Paris expansion it's a serious Contender
for the technology y thank you any other
questions seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried uh 7.1.3 rp-0
52-24 disposition of surplus lands can I
get a
mover house councelor
Coleman questions councelor Miller think
you chair um it doesn't say in the
report and that's why I'm asking the
question so um What Becomes of the
proceeds um do they go into the
affordable housing Reserve because this
is declared Surplus Lanes or does it go
into offsetting the cost of the road
project we're g to get that answer
through you Mr chair as per the
resolution that was passed by Council a
portion I think 25% does go into the
affordable housing reserve and then the
rest will go back to the property
Reserve okay thank you
H any other
questions seeing none I do have a quick
one for clarification can somebody
explain how County owned land becomes
Surplus um is it first of of all does it
go to potentially the the joining land
owners for first dibs on it um can land
owners request County owned land for
purchase to be
Surplus three you Mr chair um so
typically
a a parcel like this would be taken
through um the senior management team
and if there's no uh deemed purpose for
operational um or capital projects then
um a report would come forward to deem
the deem the land Surplus um I don't
know if Mr Walton has anything to add
but typically that would be our process
um again for it to go through all of
Senior Management and make sure there
are no operational operational or
Capital requirements for the
land okay if I could just uh expand on
that a little bit so the not this
particular property but what if there
was a property out there that was um
County owned um would somebody be able
to approach the county to suggest
purchase of that
property through you Mr chair um we do
occasionally it doesn't happen very
often but we can um we do get
unsolicited um request to purchase and
again that would um come through a staff
report to councel if it was an
unsolicited um request to purchase and
who might one have to contact in order
to do that unsolicited
through you Mr chair um it can go
through any number of methods typically
the staff person they've been dealing
with or they come directly to me and I
distribute staff okay thank
you
okay no other questions on that one oh
mayor Bailey through you um Mr chair to
staff would neighbors of that excess Pro
have first refusal on it would we bring
in a third person if we didn't need to
through you Mr chair um we don't have a
policy for first R ref first R refusal
um but certainly adjacent land owners
would be aware that it was being
surplused or would they just be aware
that it sold to someone
else you Mr chair it would go through a
public process so they would have the
same opportunity as anyone else um if
they would like to but we don't have a
policy for first spr of refusal on
it maybe we should
thank
you okay seeing no other questions all
those in
favor opposed that is
carried uh 7.1.4 which is rp-0 21424
entrance bylaw repeal and replace I'm
going to move
her councelor Oakley councelor Kyle
questions councelor Miller your day um
there there's a there's a a variety of
reasons uh somebody needs a permit uh an
entranceway permit whether it's a new
permit or they're doing
changes like Paving but also included in
there is repave I was kind of surprised
at that why is repave need a
permit through the chair um some minp
polities we we've researched all of
these things and some municipalities
have it some don't why we have it and
why it works for the County of Brandt is
we are able to you've seen a lot in the
news where uh residents get ripped off
by unscrupulous ashall companies this
way we are kind of protecting our
residents by knowing what's being done
and who's in town working and then also
uh when repaving takes place uh we want
to know what's taken place because
sometimes people take it upon themselves
to start widening their driveways
without going through the application
process so it's a small fee staff do the
followup and then staff also uh are
monitoring who's in town working and
who's
not okay fair enough um is it the same
fee as if I'm putting in a brand
new uh through the uh chair no I do not
believe it is it's it's it's a much
smaller fee it's that fee for repaving
we have not uh increased it many many
years um it's a placeholder and it's
just to cover our administrative
costs and then the last question I have
I don't know if you can answer maybe um
I'm reading the reading the
bylaw and it talks about uh granny Suite
so granny Suites uh they can have their
own entrance which is fine arus I I'm
was surprised the arus are not in this
policy now I read the next report
they're in there um I'm just wondering
if arus
shouldn't be also mentioned in that that
arus cannot have their own entrance
that's just I don't know
if if the author has any thoughts on
that uh through the chair uh we did have
um discussions about that and we were
trying to make the aru kind of a
standalone policy um but uh we can take
it back for future considerations if
there's updates done in the in the
future just a thought again
because I'm looking for theu and I
didn't see it in there so but okay I'll
leave it at that thank you councel
house thank you Mr J this uh this is a
comment rather than a question is that
all right okay and not specific to Greg
actually but but more to sta in general
the this report included a copy of
Brandon Court's uh report from January
2023 which is almost two years ago um um
about residential parking and and it
prompted me to be thinking about some of
the recent conversations that we've been
having at Council and illustrations that
councelor Bell provided about long
vehicles on short driveways and and I
was reading through this that that
report from two years ago and and I
think it references a a minimum 19 foot
driveway
recommendation and then I Pard me did a
quick Google on how long is a for def
150 or a Dodge Ram King Cab and you know
they're they're more than 21 feet long
and and I I and the other thing
that was jumped out at me in in that
older report was it references the fact
that um there's a Bo there's at least a
fiveyear lag between policies that we
make and when they actually impact the
way houses are built in this community
and I and I I just my comment is related
to all of that I sincerely hope that we
are uh initiating some new uh new
policies and and new new ways of looking
at how long driveways and their
entrances need to be uh for future
residential dwellings in this community
just a
comment thank you for that
any other questions
comments seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried uh moving on to 7.1.5 rp-0 39824
operations policy
serving additional AR arus
mover council chambers councel Coleman
questions council chambers just not a
question Mr chairman but a comment and
uh it's something that I think uh all of
our policies should give consideration
to and that's the wording in the
policy uh the policy itself seems pretty
strict uh
one uh the wording that I like is the
general manager of operations May
provide approval of additional Services
per property when adequate justification
is provided that means that not
everything fits into the same glove
there are certain circumstances that may
uh require common sense to be used when
the policy is being uh put forward and
this gives a it's a notwithstanding
clause or a loophole uh it gives the
general manager uh the authority to use
his common sense if justification uh is
uh given and it makes sense to have uh
go outside of the policy that particular
phrase
should be in all our
policies counc
Miller that a
motion
um the um the policy is saying one
hookup for waterways water fair enough
um the policy is silent when it's
private
Services should we be putting anything
in there or should we just leave well
enough alone and let him decide on a
case by case
basis oh I think
yeah Rob would like to answer
this the chair to councelor Miller the
issue of private Services would be dealt
with through the building code and any
issues they had to deal with is
approving that under the building code
so it is Municipal approval but it's
already sort of taken care
of Miller just just a follow in
I I need you to explain to me how this
quite works so um somebody on private
Services puts in an
aru um when they're looking to site
something they they have to um they have
to identify where the neighbors Wells
are and they're septic and all that
correct am I correct on
not in other words we're not just
looking at their property we got
a through the chair to um Council Miller
depends on what they're doing if if
there if there are building a new septic
system yes they do have to identify
those things and make sure they have the
side packs if they don't have to do
anything then then they wouldn't have to
do that um so it'll come up through the
the the review required on the building
code of of what's there as whether or
not they have to improve it or not and
then and then the other things will
follow as per the legislation okay so
nothing in the policy which like I say
is fine but we it if problems arise it
dealt with through the build that's what
I need to know okay thank
you anybody else
seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried uh moving on to 7.1.6 rpt 0492
d24 traffic modifications G I get a
mover councelor Coleman councel Bell
questions counc beld and councel
Oakley yeah thank you Mr chair um with
respect to the second item which is
William Street at West River Street um
of course West River Street is getting
torn up at the moment but I get um about
an email a week um from residents
complaining about the that Junction and
90% of the people that write to me say
can we make that a four-way stop because
that will slow people down on what is
becoming a bit of a Rat Run uh in town
it's been get more so when we tear up uh
Grand River Street there'll be more
traffic going that way I think we need
to be thoughtful about how we control
traffic I've said this before uh and and
I think we've made the promise to our
residents that we will put extra
controls in and this would be one of the
extra controls so rather than just
having a another East West uh stop sign
I'd put in north south north south stop
signs as well and I'd be prepared to
make a motion to that effect come the
time other questions to that oh sorry
counc Oley
yes um through you to Greg um in regards
to the first item am I understanding
correctly that this was essentially turn
that into an Allway stop there in that
intersection yes to the chair sorry uh
you're talking about the Joseph Brandt
yes yes that that's correct that's uh um
was brought to our attention and um it's
not a non-typical intersection as you
can see by the diagram it almost looked
like a connecting lane or link and for
many years it did not have a uh stop
control there so um it was deficient so
that's that's completing the
intersection there it will be new but we
uh we'll we'll post it so everyone's
aware perfect thank you very
much other questions to that Circle back
to council Bell so uh Mr chair I would
like to make a amendment to this
recommendation that we make the William
Street at West River Street Council Bell
sorry I'm going to interrupt you for one
second this is just for option for
number two right number two okay can I
what I'm going to do then is can we pull
are you in favor to pull number two
we'll get rid of the rest and we'll
Circle back to it yep okay so we're
going to pull number two which is
William Street and West River Street so
we're just going to right now uh vote on
the approval of number one and number
three which is Joseph Branch Street and
wh Swan Road okay everybody's clear on
that okay so all in favor of one and
three opposed okay one and three are
carried councelor Bell back to you for
number two yeah thank you so I would
like to make Amendment to the
recommendation has presented rather than
being a two-way stop I think I would
prefer to see it as a four-way stop in
response to the many requests from
residents and in the light and in
anticipation of the work we're going to
do on Grand River Street South uh which
will lead to much more traffic on this
road and the need for more traffic
control I look for somebody to Second
mayor Bailey is your second
thank you questions on that councelor
house then councel Chambers and councel
Oakley uh thanks Mr chair through you I
guess a couple of questions one to
councilor Bell one to Greg uh I'm I'm
wondering whether this is intended as a
temporary measure during The Big Dig or
whether it's it's forever and then I'm
also interested in Greg's
opinion um and I'm and I'm very
respectful of of the fact that it will
be uh that it has been been a a rat run
and I love it when you say that um but
the the
uh there that means there'll there'll
be multiple stop signs on West River
Street from its Southmost Point down by
Lions Park all the way up to the old
penman's building and I'm I'm just
wondering Greg's opinion from his
expertise on on that many stop signs in
that space thanks
Greg yes through the chair um we can
definitely carry out whatever Council uh
wishes I'd like to see that right off
the Hop uh we have looked at this
intersection many times and looked at
the warrants the warrants aren't there
um because you're looking at
intersecting traffic flows uh stop signs
do not work as traffic calming um we'll
put in a stop sign there and then the
same residents are going to call us and
tell us that people aren't stopping at
the stop sign because there's not enough
traffic queuing on those side roads to
indicate for people to stop busy
intersections require four-way stops and
the indicator to stop is because as you
approach it you see cars there when you
start seeing intersections where
typically you're using every day and you
don't see a lot of traffic there people
don't stop I think the county um we've
we've depleted the brand safe Street's
budget year after year since it's been
provided by Council I think um in this
scenario that we we uh Implement more
traffic calming in the area if if it's
traffic calming that uh is the desired
effect which I I believe it is but um
that's my only concern about putting in
stop signs where they're not warranted
they lead to other
issues council
chambers just uh know disagree maybe
that four-way stop would be good but I'm
not the expert and we have invested a
lot of money in Branch Safe Streets that
look at these intersections and look at
every intersection and uh use uh science
if you want rather than
political uh um Direction so I'm not
going to support the recommendation I'm
going to I'm not going to support the
resolution I am going to support the
brand safe Street's recommendation
uh I have been asked many many times for
four-way stops in the village of
Scotland berford and everywhere else for
that matter and I've always relied on
the experts to tell me whether they're
warranted or not and in this case we've
just heard that a forway stop is not
warranted so if it is not warranted then
I'm not going to support
it councel O then councelor Bell um
through you Mr chair um councelor house
and counc Lely said what I wanted to say
but I'll just also add on there that um
you know I think the bran Safe Streets
is is the way to take this and I think
if we're constantly running out of our
budget each year and one of the things I
hear constantly about that program is um
that people want to see more out of it
perhaps that means that budget or that
program needs a bit more budget to it
so counc Bill yeah uh thank you I have
two comments um one is that may not be
warranted today but the minute we start
diverting traffic off West River off
Grand River Street we're going to change
the traffic volumes considerably so you
recognizing exactly what council of
chamber says I'd appreciate that if we
could run the calculations on the basis
that traffic that normally goes through
Grand River Street is going through West
River Street and see whether it's still
warranted or not but even beyond that I
think we've made a commitment to our
residents of West River Street that we
will control that traffic
During the period at least when we're
digging up the road and I think what H
what will happen is that people will
actually become quite comfortable with
that by bypass and it becomes actually
not the the bypass but it becomes the
road so second second point the we just
three minutes ago approved a junction of
Joseph Brown Street M Holland Street I
cannot believe because I walk that way
every day
that that would warrant and always stop
and across there would not I I I'm
completely lost in terms of the
justification through the chair I can uh
I can explain that so if you look at the
diagram there's only one stop sign at
that location so everyone has free
movement there there's not there's not a
control so people can legally turn into
someone's
path where the others section you have a
two-way stop the One Stop was missing so
that's why we're putting it in there
it's a cleanup it's the same scenario so
you now have the intersecting roads you
have a stop on both sides and you have
free flow here you only have one one
stop sign and there's three entrances to
this intersection so that's that's the
issue there's stop controls
missing it defies Common Sense Greg
sorry I Walk This Road almost every day
I see virtually no traffic Lucas lives
on the corner he probably can testify to
the volumes of traffic contrast that
with West River Street there's a just a
two three orders of magnitude difference
and if you look at West River Street now
people come down
from the the railway line and they're
actually coming down a hill at that
point so there's a double issue there
people are actually speeding up as you
go down that hill so I I accept that it
may not be technically warranted but
Common Sense should Prevail in this case
and I I will keep my motion on the
floor any other
questions Okay so we've got a motion on
the floor seconded to make that a
four-way stop at West River and William
no more further questions all in favor
of the motion
opposed guess that's
a motion is carried six to
five councilor
Chambers would it be in order for me to
uh move that a four-way stop be placed
at intersection in Scotland which has
been requested many times but turned
down because it has not been warranted
would you entertain a at this time to do
that there's also a situation in bford
that has not been warranted but has been
requested by me many times for it to be
a four-way stop my point is are we now
going to uh move into the realm of
wherever what is brought to us we ignore
Safe Streets that we've invested all
kinds of money in and uh rely on Experts
to inform us uh now we're going to go
with what we think we call Common Sense
be prepared for a few motions to come
forward at our next meeting for four-way
stops in various situations throughout
the
county I I think I appreciate what
you're saying councilor Chambers but I
think also with this one here there's
the addition of the fact that we did say
when Grand River Street is closed all
the traffic is going to reroute that way
and I think this is a preemptive
medicine for that and uh if you want to
bring your motions you're totally free
to bring your motions so by understand
this is a temporary four-way stop while
the Dig is being done no so it's a
permanent forway
stop okay moving on uh
7.1.7 uh rpt 0521 d24 2025 fees and
charges can I get a
move councilor McAlpine councelor Kyle
questions councelor Miller the fees
themselves um a lot of them are cost
recovery some we try and U promote or
discourage a certain
Behavior other times we're looking at
and we take into consideration what
other municipalities are charging
especially around facilities um when
we're trying to promote an
activity um one of the things I think
about is uh maybe
recycling was there any thoughts given
to not raising the blue box
price who can comment on
that Andrew yep through you chair um
with the blue box transition and the
changes to the regulations the support
and distribution of blue boxes is going
to be done through the province in SEO
um
I understand what you're saying and we
can take that back uh the idea is um
over the short term to continue making
it easy for residents to move through
the transition um and figuring out how
best to do that moving forward counc
Miller that follow up with Andrew and
then one more question um just uh so so
so along those lines um did uh I could
have asked the same thing about
composters um again raise the fees we're
trying to save that landfill as best we
can um did you have input Andre into
those fees and and like you say did you
look at them think well are they the
best idea y through you chair we were uh
it's not a money making on these it's
just Cost recovery so I mean again we
could look at lowering those fees to
encourage it um to encourage the use um
then we would have to find a way to
subsidize yeah it would be part of a
larger strategy but like I said I don't
I just it just I was looking
at it says in the report you try and
encourage certain behavior and
discourage others so and then the second
question um again cost
recovery and I I'll just pull one out um
I was asked about it specifically and
that say uh for a liquor license permit
uh we're going from 142 plus
149 something like that an agency letter
for liquor license what would that
entail as far staff time that it needs
to be charged
$149 is St able to answer that very
specific question or not
today and there's about 50 others I
could pull out and say what how much
staff time does it take to do that so
I'm sorry are we talking the liquor
license yeah uh page 152 of our report
so it's it's not just the letter it's
the letter plus uh building and fire
both do a an inspection so it's two
inspections plus the municipal letter um
that go into that
fee okay so I suspect they don't go out
to the same building time after time if
it's a same facility asking for the
license it's only when they're doing a
permanent license so like um like
temporary licenses temporary Le license
or like one-time event licenses don't
have that fee it's just when they need
an actual letter from municipality that
says fire signed off um the Count's okay
with it and and building that's when we
we charge that and it's mostly the
inspection fees okay thank
you any other questions on that
report seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried uh 7.1.0 rpt 0345 d24 contract
extension for water and wastewater
Billing Services can I get a mover mayor
Bailey
seconder councelor Kyle questions
seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried uh final one
rp-50 3-24 the 2025 Paramedic Services
budget can I get a mover councelor
Coleman councel Oakley questions Council
B yeah thank you Mr chair first of all a
comment um we're seeing
18.6% change in in the budget from last
year a lot of that's driven by
additional ambulance and I noticed in
the capital forecast every couple of
years we're going to add an ambulance
but it's not just adding an ambulance
it's adding the crew that goes with the
amb ambulance so can we anticipate that
we will see
significant uh percentage increases in
in budget every second year from now on
um it's it's not necessarily when you
replace an ambulance you add staff as
well is there's an additional ambulance
coming on board then then then these are
additional these are additional every
two years is's an additional ambulance
coming there's Replacements and there's
additionals these are additionals okay
Cindy uh through the
chair um so the I guess the ambulance
strategic action plan that was done back
in 2016 did
recommend based on forecasting of um
call projections that a 12-hour
ambulance be placed on every two years
um so that is what is Cap uh a new study
um because that study has sort of now
expired and um conditions have changed
um so whatever comes back from that will
probably adjust the future Capital
forecast and um what our sort of
capacity and resource requirements will
be for the next five to 10
years thank you but to be clear Cindy
when we get a new
ambulance what's the what is the crew
implication of that how many people do
we need additionally to crew another
ambulance uh through the chair so for
for 2025 with the 12 hour our ambulance
um that's a a staff of four
ft sorry I I missed that four full-time
equivalent sta four full-time for 12
hour yeah so every two years we going to
be adding effectively four full-time
equivalents and there'll be a trigger
point where we add another supervisory
level so my my point is we can expect
fairly sign fairly significant
percentage increases on budget every
second year just because of adding an
ambulance
just just an observation I'm I'm not
doubting I don't think it's a bad thing
but I will make the point that um
Paramedic Services is very responsive to
population
growth and what I'm seeing in the health
unit is that they're not and they should
be and there are other areas that should
be sensitive to population growth even
our own stuffing of of the county staff
has to be in many respects sensitive to
the growth in population so it's just a
a warning a notice to us all that as we
grow then we must expect our budgets to
grow as well and sometimes they going to
grow in excess of the increased Revenue
we get from that increased population
and this will be one of those examples
thank
you councilor Miller just um councilor
Bell's uh query it's a good query
um we we we know currently The Paramedic
Services are over subscribed they're
over 100% usage um when we add this
ambulance this half ambulance um we're
still going to be over 100% so the the
addition of the ambulances I don't see
that going away for the next foreseeable
future now one of the big drivers of
that is Hospital weight times I think we
all know that we've discussed it um it
was at one point the average was 1 hour
and 6 minutes earlier this year um it's
the our last report was down to 53
minutes if we could ever get a handle on
that where they just come in and drop
them off we would see our uh our needs
for amulance drop substantially but it's
it's an issue we've been fighting we've
had meetings at various Municipal
conferences so around this table we're
not going to solve it we'll work at it
we'll chip away at it we'll do it with
other municipalities but unless and
until that that is drastically affected
yeah that trajectory for more
ambulance is not going
away council chambers just a comment uh
Mr chairman I find it a little bit
unusual that The Paramedic Services
budget which is in excess of almost $30
million is placed on our agenda as a
consent
item I think in the future items such as
this should be items where we can
discuss it rather than a consent item
which we're supposed to just uh if we
have questions ahead of time ask them
but otherwise we uh accept them
similarily truly noted any other
questions on that
report all in
favor opposed that is
carried okay uh moving on to section 7.2
consent items to be received does
anybody want any of those polls
councelor
Miller well I wouldn't mind 7.2.1
pulled
7.2.3 okay so that's the annual billing
statement and the age friendly community
plan and councelor Bell yours was
7.2.1 anybody else want any
pulled okay so we're going to vote on
7.2.2 and 2.4 all those in
favor
opposed those are carried 7.2.1
councelor
Miller okay just a quick question um
it's a little bit opaque that report um
I know we spent almost $6 million in
2023 it looks like 2025 is going to be
$7 million that's a million dollar
increase from two years ago okay I just
wonder what did we spend in
2024 I just want that percentage and I
never seen it this
report anybody have
that anybody able to get us
that it must be
opaque I think we're just looking for it
right now stand
by I think Finance is just looking for
that we don't have like is they
reconcile at the end of the year so we
can certainly find what they had
budgeted for this time for 2024 it's
just we won't have the final what we
actually spent in
2024 uh through you Mr chair uh for 2024
we budgeted um five 5, 834000
okay so just to be clear then we
budgeted Less in 2024 than what the
reconciled statement was for 20123 well
that through Mr chair through the chair
the 2023 reconciliation just came in
right as part of this as part of the
2025 amount that they're a full year
behind in the
reconciliations okay so that's in
percentage terms
that's that's quite large then
yes um
do what do are we going to investigate
this in more detail or do we just what
are we doing are we just receiving it
and
taking is there options later on to
through the budget process to I guess
deal with that okay counc Bell yeah I
think Council Mill's got all my
observations there thank you
okay nothing else on
7.2.1 all in favor
7.2.1 opposed that one's carried uh
7.2.3 councelor Miller um as far as the
update goes I appreciate that sar's work
on that just a quick question um does
this this can be modified changed over
time this plan like all plans I think
it's a
docum and there's AAS I'm
asking through the chair yeah this plan
will be will be modified as we move
forward oh um and the reason I'm asking
is is I'm going through it and that's
it's interesting because Greg demir's
actually talked about it uh
scammers if you look talk about seniors
one of the biggest things that they face
is scammers and people Target the
seniors whether it's it's a phone call
saying I'm your grandson you know I've
been put in jail um which makes it
harder for
real grandchildren that earn jail to get
help
um but and then there's a there's a scam
in Toronto going around they talk about
it they're show up we're going to do
your roof and they show pictures of the
roof it's not even their roof so anyways
their targets of scamers the only real
thing we've looked at is uh maybe
through the elder abuse committee um
that's the closest thing they they talk
about scamming but it's a very very
small part of that with the elder abuse
committee the elder abuse committee
deals mainly with um people that they
know on an ongoing basis whether it's a
relative whether it's a caregiver so
forth so um and if you go to Norfolk uh
they in their um age friendly document
that they they do put quite a bit of
emphasis on on scamming and how to
protect seniors and I'm just I'm going
to ask is there anything we could do to
maybe to um to help them out
on uh through the chair actually yeah we
work with um that that group very
closely and we have actually offered
workshops in the past as they come up um
through the gr River Council of Aging
they often do those types of workshops
and workshop series um so it's just
basically as requested and we're happy
to to um communicate back to them and
maybe we can work on on bringing that
forward
again again I I just I think it's a very
important issue it really is whether
it's that somebody calling from say
they're from CRA or you've lost your
credit card so it's happening so okay
thank you okay all right uh so we're
going to vote on 7.1.3 all in
favor opposed that is carried we are
going to take a two-minute recess
here
e e
okay uh thank you uh appreciate that
short break uh we are moving on to staff
reports uh staff report 8.1 rpt 0483 d24
councelor garau has a conflict with that
she has removed herself can I get a m to
get that on the floor councelor Coleman
councelor Oakley questions on that
report counc
Coman this just surprises the H of me
that nobody got any questions on this on
a replacement of 18 vehicles I had
questions yesterday I did phone Greg he
give me the answers but I cannot believe
that 11 or 10 of us sitting here around
this horse right now has no
questions councelor Bell you got have a
question I have a question just to help
just help Brian out no I I was surprised
by the scale but my question is did we
include this in our CAPIC forecast last
year for 2025 or is this something that
has come out of the the woodwork during
the course of this year uh through the
chair I'd like to start out by answering
that by thanking the finance
uh we've been working on this for 10
years and we actually have a 10-year
plan so these were already forecasted
some of these vehicles um were actually
forecasted last year to be replaced but
we pushed off replacement at that time
due to the budgetary concerns so now
we're playing a little bit of catchup
but uh something uh when I joined the
county many years ago I was working with
all the Heathers and the vanessas over
in finance and we started talking about
a 10 10 10 year plan and we and we built
a 10year plan so the reason why I'm
bringing the report forward today is um
this would normally go through the
budgetary process and because that's
going to be later in the season I don't
want to lose the opportunity to place
the uh vehicle orders because when you
want a vehicle in 2025 you have to place
the order in 2024 so um we're finally
caught up with our
vehicles um we have uh we've been
stretching these vehicles and
repurposing as as much as we can um but
just for um committees so you're aware
some of these vehicles date back all the
way to
2006 uh some of these vehicles have in
excess of 400,000 kilometers on them and
some of these vehicles are very
essential to our service where we can't
have them break down and they're
starting to show um signs of wear so
we've done our best to um stretch them
there's a couple more that we've pushed
off I know this is a big ask but these
are essential and we've um talked a lot
with all the Departments so that uh we
could we verified that these are needs
so if I Mr just to be clear and maybe
it's a question Heather can answer uh
what did we include in the forecast last
year for
2025 for this this line item and how how
much different is it
we're going to get
that uh through the chair to councelor
Bell um it is uh a little bit different
than last year's uh forecast uh because
we had moved some um
items from 2024 to
2025 um now also the on this report it
includes uh an ice resurfacer which was
not on the fleet list last year if
you're just looking at the fleet list
but it was in the community services
list last
year um and again every year we do look
at the 10e forecast and we make further
adjustments to known pricing increases
um so any know pricing increases would
have changed um based on what last
year's forecast had been uh for these
pieces of
equipment um so the exact dollar amount
may not have been in last year's plan
just due to those changes in the pricing
increases um now also a few of the a few
of the pieces of equipment on the list
um
one specifically does have some funding
from development charges uh based on the
requirement of it being growth related
um so uh they're not all coming from the
same funding source hopefully hopefully
that answered your question so I'm just
looking for a you know it's a million
dollars more or it's $500,000 more
because I guess we when we start our
budget process we'll start from what we
spent in 2024 and we had an estimate for
2025 which will now be different and
will reflect you an increase in the
starting point for
2025 Sor I'm just going to see if I can
very quickly open what the capital
forecast was for last
year uh for Fleet
specifically now again because the icer
surfacer wasn't in the fleet section my
total might be a little bit different
so the grand total that we had in the
fleet
forecast uh presented last year was 3,
302,000 so then if you add the ice
resurfacer into that it was pretty close
yep good Enzo thank you yeah councilor
Miller yeah thank you Mr chair um got a
lot of supplemental information from the
questions councelor Coleman asked
yesterday but just um I understand why
you're bringing this forward today for a
large friend end loader or a nice
resurfacer my question is um why the
pickup trucks why the SUV
hybrid
great through the chair because it's
time for replacement and as I said uh
some of those Vehicles like one of those
is a 2006 we can't use it anymore and if
we want the vehicles replaced in 2025 um
we need to place the orders um when
municipalities Buy uh Vehicles there's
an ordering window it's called and the
the vehicles are placed in that ordering
queue if we don't get into that queue
then we don't get our vehicles and
that's one of the things that a lot of
municipalities are struggling with okay
um it must be different than for an
individual because I could go in
tomorrow and buy a pickup truck right uh
through the chair that is correct but
you'll pay 20 30,000 $440,000 sometimes
more than what a municipality will pay
for a truck because when they do a run
of vehicles they'll run like Municipal
orders all at the same time okay yeah
and I did not know that until okay thank
you that's good good
information council chambers I'm trying
to think of a question just to uh mify C
so my question is if it if
municipalities get trucks 20 or $30,000
less than what I can is there any way
that I
can because I've got a 2 three Dodge Ram
that isn't worth anything and it's
falling apart through the chair when I
can figure that out for myself I will
share that for you and I hope that
satisfies the councelor Coleman for the
for the question mayor Bailey uh I want
to ask a question too because I feel
like I should have paying more attention
but since it's not really my business to
know whether they're Fords or chevs I
was just wondering whether the ice
resurfacer was is zambron or something
else uh through the chair um no I uh
it's not because through the purchasing
policy we have to um go out for an ice
resurfacer and as Amon is actually a
trademark or name of a particular
unit a local a local name that supports
the community in big
ways okay that's fine thank
you any other
questions okay um just I have one
question here so these are all
replacements
what do we do with the other ones do we
sell
them might be looking for a front-end
loader so um through the chair so
depending on what what we're replacing
here when the tenders goes out um like
the front end loader what we would do is
put that out and then ask for a tradein
give us some tradein values on the
pickup trucks we send those to auction
so that um the community if they they
wish to purchase something um they have
the same opportunity as anyone else okay
no it's interesting because that's the
ones I was talking with the front end
loaders and stuff like that the bigger
item so it's good to know that it's a
trade in okay and there's a truck there
for councelor Chambers
perfect any other
questions seeing none are you satisfied
councelor Coleman excellent all those in
favor opposed that is carried okay
councelor garno is going to rejoin us
here
and we will move on to 8.2 which is rpt
0482 d24 Staffing for automated speed
enforcements can I get a mover councelor
Oakley councelor
Kyle
questions councilor
Chambers um if if I understand this
correctly I've read the report I'm
trying to remember back when we first
talked about this was this factored in
that we need two additional employees
for One camera and if we have another
camera that's two more
and I'm just I'm I'm kind of blown away
by this to tell you the truth U and is
there cost recovery to recover this uh
and my other question would be uh why
can't this wait to be a
a a budget issue or is it uh does it
render the speed camera inoperable if we
don't have the people to do
this up through the chair to councelor
chers so there there is a a basic
formula that we are using based on the
experience from other municipalities um
if you recall in the previous report
from September we had high compliance
and low compliance rates um what we're
doing with this exercise here is we
believe that it's going to be um we're
still going to have a Surplus with the
first
camera um and then we're going to hire
accordingly um as we we require
additional staff uh so we're going to
monitor the numbers we do have some
numbers for the second and third camera
I can tell you one of the locations the
the data is very very high um so likely
when we we come into the second camera
we're probably going to ask for
additional staff these two staff here to
launch the program I think initially
we're going to uh recruit for a
screening officer uh my understanding is
that the onset of this program when you
when you launch it you may get a lot of
screenings um we're doing some work uh
some policy work in the background where
we're trying to alleviate some of these
screenings but anecdotally uh the
experience in another municipality that
is doing um automated speed
enforcement um through the
administrative penalty system is they
received about 400 screening requests uh
in the first
quarter so we're trying to position
position ourselves where we're not going
to get that many screenings um but the
possibility is there so we want to have
somebody in place to run those
screenings we do have staff right now
that are trained we have two uh officers
uh Municipal Law Enforcement Officers
but they're uh they've received a
designation uh through the ministry they
they've taken some training so they are
provincial offenses officers so we're
trying to delay hiring uh another
provincial offenses officer until we
start rolling out more cameras and the
demand is there so we want to be
prepared for you know the influx of of
penalty notices or penalty orders that
we get um so we're just taking a
cautious approach and and you know
putting it on the radar that we're going
to need to hire some staff we do have
two staff that we're requesting right
now just to launch the
program council
chambers yeah I understand that I I just
what's going through my mind is is it
more practical and and um uh to rather
than hire staff to look at paperwork
than hire additional police officers
that would enforce speeding all over the
county rather than 100 yards in front of
a particular location uh as like that's
a lot of money to uh invest in speed uh
control in one particular spot in the
county and I'm just I I'm waiting for
the review of this after a year to see
whether it is indeed uh uh worth uh the
investment that we're putting into it to
control speeding in 100 yards uh of the
county when perhaps the funds could be
spent and uh hiring additional uh police
officers that would Patrol the entire
County and maybe do as as much good for
the cause of reducing speeding in the
county any other
questions councelor Kyle and councelor
meline thanks Mr chair through you to
Greg Greg um and I probably should know
the answer to this question but what
exactly is the screening officer
screening uh through the chair so uh
essentially when somebody receives a
penalty order there's a two-stage
process where somebody can appeal uh
it's legislated under the highway
traffic Act and the regulations for
automated speed enforcement so the first
step would be a screening officer where
they would um request a screening from
um the officer um that would be a
Municipal Employee um that person would
basically review the penalty order under
specific parameters um as we're
developing the policy those parameters
are going to be public facing um and
then they're going to they can make a
decision at that point whether to
confirm the penalty notice they can vary
it um they can extend a payment plan or
they can quash it um so we are trying to
do some policy work on the front end
just so that the public is aware so we
don't get an influx of screenings for
for people that are used to the court
system where you know if they appear
before court they can ask for a
reduction automatically and often times
it's granted um I don't think that
that's that's our position we don't want
to get inated with screening
requests counc
meline so I think he kind of alluded to
this but I'm not 100% sure clear on um
we're supposed to have the cameras in
place for a trial period before we
actually start um sending the tickets so
we're in that trial phase now is the
camera in place uh through the chair
yeah so the camera is in place it was uh
uh put in place onor about October 1st
um so it is gathering data um we are we
are seeing some you know based on the
threshold that's been set we are seeing
some pretty significant numbers um I
think for the first month we're at about
40 4700 uh penalty
notices um and for this month we're at
about
2200 um now that's based on you know the
data that we we've set the Threshold at
um when we go live we do expect that you
know that may decrease because we
certainly want to do a public campaign
to notify um the public that you know
these cameras are in use um so people
have to you know judge their their speed
and lower their speed accordingly okay
so at this point we're not sending out
notices to people that those 4,400
people that they've been speeding or
anything at this point uh through the
chair no no we're not uh I think that
was contemplated initially but just the
cost would have been exorbitant to do
that because we have to run a search
every time that we send a letter to
somebody and that cost us $825 through
the Ministry of
Transportation so I just want to confirm
you did say
4700 uh through the chair yeah that's
correct circles back to your point there
council chambers
it too funny uh councelor how's had
something thanks well um Mr Cherry you
you kind of tackled my point a little
bit there uh and just for the benefit of
the people who are watching at home
um and this this is a location that is
within this is touching on a bunch of
topics from tonight this is a location
that's
within 400 feet of a stop
sign right more or less and it's
directly in front of the school
and and you're saying that
in six weeks we've had uh with a
threshold of you know we're not we're
not nailing somebody one kilometer over
the the speed limit you're said
4700
violations is that accurate uh through
the chair that's that's what the data is
is saying right
now we will'll expect a reduction in
that and we certainly hope there's a
reduction in that but yes and and just
to put it out there the the goal is
there is for there to be
none right the the goal is that for
there to be no violations because we the
the whole intention is to condition
people to to drive slower uh in these
zones so yeah this plus um you know I
recall two or three years ago to
counselor Chambers point we did invest
ex ra money through the op for specific
officers dedicated to highway traffic
act issues like speeding offenses so I
think this is a good
combination um of efforts to to try and
make our community a safer
Place councelor Kyle thanks Mr chair
through you to Greg Greg just to pick up
on something you mentioned a minute or
two ago you said it costs
$8.50 per um search that you have to do
so when you run those I'm going to make
the assumption that there's the same
person in some cases that's gotten
multiple times through that zone so are
you searching that same license plate
individually every time or do you
consolidate and go this license plate
has eight offenses we need to do one
search and then you times that fine by
eight or whatever um how does that work
like are we paying every time or is
there a consolidation that you can do if
there is somebody that's coming up
multip times uh through the chair um so
we are working on the software and I do
believe that they're going to have some
mechanisms in the software to identify
you know the same plate um you know for
various reasons there may be patterns
for this vehicle as well um I should I
should qualify that the 825 um when we
do go live we can download that cost uh
to the owner um so that'll be part of
the cost recovery again we anticipate
that this program will be
self-sufficient and self rep ing um
based on the data that's been gleaned
there's been a lot of work that's been
done in the background for projections
um so we we expect that it's going to be
Revenue neutral or you know we may
operate at
Surplus anybody
else okay just uh real quick one here
that I have
um the recommendation is that the
committee approve the recruitment or
hiring of one full-time screening
officer and one provincial officer aditt
to administ
I and I just want to confirm back to
what council Cham Chambers was saying
there so we feel that with the staff
that we have trained right now and
adding this one additional provincial
offen officer that should get us to the
point where we' be able to handle this
camera and then we'll base it on once we
add another camera if another one is
needed or is it just we're going to add
them with the cameras uh through the
chair so we're going to we're going to
monitor the data very very closely um
and then make some decisions on hiring
as as indicated in the report there is a
bit of a delay when you hire a
provincial offenses officer there's a
bit of a protest that they have to go
through uh we do have some staff right
now that have been trained uh they're
designated there's two officers uh
keeping in mind they do have other
duties um but you know I would I would
venture to Guess that probably in in
June we're probably going to be looking
at another provincial offenses officer
um just to kind of handle that second
camera because of the volumes U so we
want to make sure that we have the right
people in place at the right times so
that the the program can continue
successfully operating without any
delays okay and I appreciate the way you
said that Greg because I was worried
about if we pull them off the regular
duties that's going to kind of you know
if we've got the folks that are trained
that's great but to your point they've
got other things they need to do too so
I'm glad you glad you said that okay
perfect no other
questions all those in
favor
opposed that is carried
okay 8.3 which is rpt50 1-24 the
canesville Premier employment Hub
comprehensive land use strategy
mover councilor Garo councelor Kyle
questions Council
Miller
um I I like I like the study I think
it's a great
idea um my question is and I'll read a
line from the report it says um once
full Services become
available so we're expecting them to
become available I know we're working on
it um is this study premature or do we
know when services will become
available uh through the chair so there
was a master servicing plan done uh I
believe it went to Council in June so
that laid out the preliminary plan uh my
understanding is that operations will go
to consultant uh to do the actual design
work in early 2025 so then that'll kind
of depending on the design and the
Consulting work depend when it will come
online whether or not it will be faced
or all at
once Miller
I you don't think this study is too
early is what I'm saying what that you
don't think this is too
early um the benefit of oh Rob
Walton I think CE Alison wants to say
something here thank you you Mr chair um
so the idea is that the from what I
understand the design work for the for
the actual servicing would take
approximately a year and then the actual
construction approximately a year this
also would take approximately one year
um so I wanted them to go at the same
time not only is it a requirement
through the new uh planning act but um
we wanted to make sure that when when we
get to that point where servicing is
going to be available that there was a
lead time to be able to actually get
tenants in place and uh things could hit
the ground running so the idea was to
have them go in tandem um so it would be
fully ready and fully serviced and
Shuffle ready um by the time the
services are in the
ground through the chair to um councelor
Miller there there's an extreme demand
out there I think we're into our third
um interim servicing agreement out there
in this area for things that are going
to go ahead on
holding tanks and whatever awaiting
waiting the services so we are out for
the expression of interest to hire the
um so to do the pumping station designed
right now and you know whether we'll see
that implemented in
2026 it would be the Hope um and this
really does need to go in parallel with
that Council Miller yeah I'm not
confident at this point I I would rather
see it delay to year but that's just my
thoughts
anybody
else seeing none all in
favor
opposed that is
carried uh 8.4 rp-0 51124 assessment
based management policy can I get a
mover coun
Oley councelor
Kyle on this side of the table here
questions on that report counc
garno thank you Mr chair through to
staff um I do have a few um on page
three of three on the the memo portion
of the report I'm wondering if it could
be explained what the difference between
or sorry what is a review role and then
how is that different from a county
initiated
action coun know um we review the role
to sorry we review the role to ensure
that all properties are assessed
property we have a company um that
actually does the review for us they
pick up any discrepancies in zoning or
any building permits that are Miss
missed Council init Council initiated
appeals is when there is a major error
that empact cannot fix the only way to
fix the error is to actually appeal the
assessment to the
ARB c g thank you um and then uh on a
slightly different
topic uh section 11 of the policy
addresses discrep discrepancies and one
of the things it says is that the county
will help property owners who have lost
their agricultural forestry or
conservation designation I'm just
wondering what help we offer in those
circumstances I just recently helped a g
or helped a lady um we fill forms we
helped them revise them um if they
because the Agri Corp cannot go back to
Prior years they can only do the proceed
are they next year so anything now would
only be done for 2024 or 2025 we do the
2024 under Section 357 358 of the
municipal
act thank you and one one further one um
in the event that the county has taken
an action that's caused someone to lose
one of those statuses do we still help
them and if so how does that
unfold the as far as um has happened we
have not had any anybody lose their
status because of any action on behalf
of County if they did we would still
take the same action we would help them
assist them to get it back work with
Agri Corp empac and the property
owner okay thank
you anybody
else seeing none all in
favor opposed that is carried
okay 8.5 rpt 0519 d24 Municipal and
School Board elections alternate forms
of voting can I get a mover councelor
Coleman counc Bell
questions
see Council Miller well we've had this
discussion before Mr chair but can maybe
the clerk could speak too how do you how
do you know it's secure I
guess what what what what measures do we
take if we go to an online
voting um through the chair to the
counselor's question um there are a lot
of mechanisms today that are a lot more
secure than online voting in the past so
a lot of vendors today there are a lot
more today than there used to be they
have a lot more options when it comes to
two Factor verification so you're sent a
unique code either by mail or by email
whatever it is along with some personal
information that you are pairing
together to make sure that you are
getting the right person to vote
okay um I mean I always like the paper
ballot because you can count them you
can recount them things like that and
I'm not worried about Iran or Russia or
anybody you know hacking the municipal
election of Brant but is yeah my my main
concern and it's just reflection of my
age so um yeah I just want it to be
secure so but you feel I guess you would
feel it secure otherwise you wouldn't be
making this
recommendation any other questions
Council G thank you Mr chair I guess
more of a comment for staff to take back
um one of the things that was brought to
my attention during the election was
with regards to the voters list and I
know it comes to us in a certain way and
we take it as it is um but in a number
of cases I had individuals let me know
that they had say for example adult
children still listed as electors in
this community despite being gone a long
time and if the the secondary check to
cast a pin online is one's birth dat
On's parents likely also know their
children's birth date as far as being
able to cast additional votes I'm not
sure if this perhaps the clerk could
just comment on that um because the
other two scenarios that came to me is
name individuals receiving voters cards
and both they married and their ma names
or for deceased individuals within their
homes through the chair to the
counselor's question um so the voters
list has been taken over by um elections
Ontario they're doing a better job now
we have staff across the municipalities
working very closely with them um from
as early as last year trying to clean
that up right now and it looks pretty
good I've looked at it too so um we're a
little bit more hopeful with the voters
list there um in terms of parents
knowing their kids birthdays or any
family members um it can happen um but
again there are ways to send the the
unique pin that wouldn't just go out by
mail it could go to an email address
there are things that vendors offer so
that it's a bit more secure that way we
can try to mitigate those
concerns thank you I'm glad to hear
that counc o um to the chair to the
clerk um I just want to say that I'm
thrilled that I that will be offering
the online voting uh potentially on the
day of election I know this was uh
something heard from a number of folks
who were planning on voting online they
uh found out they couldn't had some sort
of illness other something preventing
them from being there in person and uh
they were unable to ctch their vote so I
think this is a great great step
forward anybody
else seeing none all in
favor opposed that is carried 8.6 rpt
042 424 2026 election W boundary and
Council composition survey
mover counc McAlpine councelor house
questions uh through the chair uh in
which year would we be intending to have
this uh 2030 municipal election uh
review with the external expertise or
yeah um we would be looking at starting
that probably about 20
27 we'd be starting looking at getting
uh someone in line to to start that
process because if we're doing a full
one there's a lot of details that are
going to have to be M through perfect
thank you anybody else
seeing none all in
favor opposed that is
carried okay section nine committee
reports 9.1 tour tourism advisory can I
get a mover councelor Kyle mayor Bailey
questions seeing none all in
favor opposed that is carried 9.2 Brandt
Heritage can I get a mover councelor
house councelor McAlpine
questions councelor Oakley to the chair
to the members of committee uh just for
some context I was I was reading through
the minutes as well it wasn't explicit
um what what is this joint Heritage
committee councelor H so there are uh
and Council cine feel free to chime in
on the details but there there are a
number of municipalities that work
together on as a joint Heritage effort
and compare notes and best practices and
and they meet once a year at different
location
and and it's it's our turn next year
that's the short
answer you're good with that okay all
those in
favor opposed that is
carried okay moving on Communications I
see none other business councelor Bell
you had to
items thank you uh I've had a number of
people rais concerns about the
proliferation of signage on rest AER
Road if anybody drives between
Cobblestone and Arlington Parkway you'll
pass I'm going to guess 20 signs and yet
there's the big U pillar that has all of
um businesses that are involved in that
that commercial Plaza so a question I
think
to our staff is that permissible my
understanding might is that they are the
right size they're 8 by4 so they they
meet that criteria but are we
comfortable having literally tens of
them on the side of the road because
they're distract from people looking at
the other signs that that we want them
to look at like there's a roundabout
coming you shouldn't stop there doesn't
stop people from stopping there but that
that's that's the the truth of the
matter so could I could somebody from
staff give me a sense of whether that's
something that is both
permissible and ively is it
desirable thank you Mr chair um so we do
occasionally get reports of signs and
stuff that's not in compliance with our
bylaw um certainly I can have staff um
you know take a drive and see if there's
any that are non- compliant um if they
are then we could certainly ask them to
be taken down um your sort of separate
question um was regarding the the
community service signs um that we have
in different communities and there is
staff report coming forward on that um
really to close off the we finding
strategy um so that will sort of be
addressed as a separate issue um and I
think they need to be dealt with
separately um my sense is that most of
those are for service clubs um versus
the signage that you're actually
referring to on rers
road yeah the commentary I get back from
from residents is this doesn't actually
fit with Paris being the prettiest
little town in Ontario uh and they're
quite right it's rather ugly so I I
would appreciate if we can take a look
at it second question was around
roundabouts and safety on roundabouts
and we mentioned this before could staff
comment as to whether they're looking at
um improving the safety pedestrian
safety on
roundabouts Rob's going to come up
or Rob answers this question we should
prepare ourselves for a delegation
coming I think probably next meeting or
one after that U led by somebody whose
children came very close to being hit on
the roundabouts and rers
R through the chair to councelor Bell um
actually this past week there was some
correspondence that made his way through
to some counselors and his staff and uh
um number of us in uh in operations
actually had a meeting with our
Consultants designing our current
roundabouts coming forward on uh Grand
River Street North as to what you know
his implications were for these other
ones which weren't designed by them but
they certainly understand the design and
what's coming up for Grand Street North
so I think what we need to do is we need
to get a good education program a better
education program um for residence as to
what the safety considerations on
roundabouts is for for pedestrians and
uh to get the real word out there and
there's worldwide statistics on this and
rounds are quite safe much safer than uh
than many signalized intersections and
we we certainly can provide that
information through to council and and
through to the residents um that being
said there are some new things coming up
in in roundabout design and we are
looking at some uh some measures to um
improve the newer ones which we're going
to be doing next year on Grand River
Street North so um you know I could go
on for this for for half an hour the
answer to the question is yes we're
looking at it yes we need to do
education and yes we'll be bringing more
information back to council yeah and I I
may Mr chair one of the things that that
keeps coming back to us is people are
getting familiar with roundabouts
because if you go to Cambridge or
kitchen or water you'll see lots of them
and they will point to enhancements on
the roundabouts there that we don't have
which would improve the safety of
pedestrian
so if if when you report back you can
comment on why we're different and why
we why we're different and what we could
do to come to the same standard that our
neighbors
have through through the charity
councelor Bell um over time all of these
things evolve and um I would say the
standards we've used are mostly all the
same and the Consultants used are mostly
all the same ones that have been used
for the the regional waterl ones as well
um there are new enhancements which are
being brought into some of their new
ones there many of the these things be
very difficult to retrofit back into
existing ones without a huge piece of
construction so you know we're looking
forward to that um as far as changes
with signage and whatever um you know
municipalities do do some of that
differently and we certainly can look at
some of that and see what we do going
forward okay the good news is though
although we've had all these reports how
unsafe they are we really haven't had
much in the way of incidents in them
so okay uh thank you for that um
councelor Miller you had something on
way finding strategy yeah thank you Mr
chair and I'll be as brief as I can um
so the way finding strategy we passed
accounts I don't know how long ago seven
eight years
ago and it was a way of
uh having common signage I guess for our
town
in settlement areas across the county
since we hadn't done that since Weg so
it made sense um it cost a lot of money
I was surprised at the time even then it
seemed like a lot
um so that's fine I I I I supported it
um what I didn't know at the
time was that for those um Hamlet
settlements call them what you will that
aren't in the designated as a settlement
there area or hamlet in the official
plan um and there's only 20 those signs
would um basically they'd be left to
fall over and collapse
so and talking to Allison sounds like
they there could be close to 70 of those
throughout the county um I put a picture
of Harrisburg in there or sorry not
Harrisburg Hatley in there um I know
Ton's in there Mount Burn's in there and
you we go through all the the wars you
you'll you you'll find it so I'm not
sure if that's a good idea for for three
reasons and I'll list them um first of
all um and I'll take Ashley if you if
you remove that sign you will upset
residents quite a bit and I think
needlessly I think the same with
anonia um and the second reason is we
talked about it when we were talkinging
about strategic plan we we wanted to
treat all our residents where they live
in Paris St George whatever W they live
in we wanted to treat them equitably and
I don't believe that's treating
everybody equitably um if you ask
somebody from hashley where they're from
the first thing they're going to say is
I'm from Hatley they don't say I live in
the county brand they say I'm from
Hatley so taking away this the very
taking away that sign what does it leave
them um what are they going to say I I'm
I I live in the count County of Brant um
okay but where and I I don't know where
I live
so that's another and then the third
reason is historical and and I'll go to
mount burn because I did a little
research on that with our local histori
Clayton
Barker Mount Vernon sign came down um
this is all allar and I asked I just
sent an email to Greg de says can you
guys put that back up and he said uh no
um so he got me in contact with Melissa
said well that's not part of our wave
finding strategy I said okay so she sent
me the info on those 20 things which I
included in their package um but but
take Mount Vernon for example um that
was a town started as Springfield back
in 1802 so it's been around you know
2 22 years um started at Springfield I
think the name changed in 1850 was
actually a large town at the time they
had half a dozen Mills there um if
you're familiar with with M Vernon at
all they had a cemetery they had a
railway stop they have a church thanks
to counselor garno I know they had a
school because we have a picture of a
graduating class from there um so it had
a lot of things uh berford had a fire
big fire uh bunch of fires um in the
early
1880s and they actually took some of the
commercial buildings from Mount Vernon
and they moved up to berford which had
also been called claremount at one time
um and it's interesting because talking
to
Clayton he was connecting dots for me
and you could see that uh they wanted
berford to kind of take off and it
became part of this politically
um well for political reasons that's why
Brent County was was started so it's
interesting if if you learn about where
something started and why you you
understand uh where it's going to go to
so anyways take away the Mount Vernon
sign and what are you left with all that
history is gone it's just gone there's
nothing to to to to recognize it so um I
I like I said understand the way Finance
Str understand we want common signage
for the settlement areas recognized in
the op but at the same time I don't
believe we should be ignoring the
existing signs for all those smaller
again I'll call them hamlets sement
areas throughout the county so
um that's what I've learned on this and
um I did talk to staff and what I would
ask Mr uh Mr chair if you allow is is a
motion to refer this matter back to
staff and and then they could come back
with a report saying um uh we could just
replace the current signs uh we could
upgrade them there's a cost to that too
and at least at least we as a council
could could make that decision have
further discussion so I'll make a motion
that we refer the matter to staff uh
seeking a second counc car second do you
want to speak to it
yeah so I do want to support councelor
Miller in this and offer a real example
of why I think as much as there's a cost
we should keep these identities so if
you ask me where I live I kind of go
well I'm sort of near canesville um the
alternative is to say on the east side
of Branford and we are probably Grant
County which lands me here today um but
I suspect there are others around the
table that or their parents may have
remembered the area as monkey Hollow
Pine Grove or the Johnson settlement but
today that's not an area that is
recognized or even if I said we're we're
in Pine grve I don't know that anyone
would know how to find us because I
suspect the signage we once had is long
since lost to history and I've been on a
mission to uncover that history and
another local historian who's here
tonight has been helping me with that
but I I think this is worth a discussion
particularly for our rural communities
who are unlikely to ever identify as
being part of more of our anchor
community so I want to thank councelor
Miller for bringing this forward and
look forward to if we're successful
tonight with resolution report from
staff thank
you council
chambers yes I certainly support the
resolution I can recall and maybe the
people on Council of the day can recall
when I did the same kind of spiel about
hashley as councelor Miller did about
Mount Vernon and that's why the hashley
sign Got erected and my memory serves
correctly not all members of council
were supportive of that and remember one
in particular said if we do it for one
we'll have to do it for everyone which I
said maybe we should do it for everyone
and uh maybe that Council can remember
saying that so I support the the
resolution I know if you drive through
noral County you go through dogs nest
and rattlesnake Harbor and they've got
their little signs up there and hunky D
those kind of places it's interesting
for the the people that drive by it it's
it's excellent for the residents who
live there and know a little bit of
local history and we don't want to lose
that local history and uh I certainly uh
know a little bit about Mount Vernon it
was a county seat at one time so uh not
too long ago and sure these things
should be done and I don't expect that
we need to put the big blue pillared
signs like in Fairfield of all places um
which has its own history but doesn't
really need that kind of a sign just
needs a little sign that says this is
where Fairfield is so let's uh move
forward and and and recognize Our
Heritage and history and and name these
little places and put the signs up so
everybody knows where they
are counc house thank you Mr chair yeah
and I I agree I I support this as well
from a Heritage perspective and I think
not only the people who have uh
generations of of history in these areas
but people who are new to this broader
Community move here because they like
that the small town charm we hear that a
lot and one of the ways that we can
maintain and reinforce the small town
charm is by continuing to recognize
these these little hamlets and and I I
think it's a great
idea Okay so we've got a motion on the
table it is seconded all those in favor
opposed
unanimous okay that was it for other
business so now can I get a motion to go
in camera um we're going to go in camera
to discuss rp-0
54-24 uh a proposed imp pending
acquisition or disposition of land by
the municipality or local board 925 rest
Acres
Road councelor Coleman mayor Bailey
all in
favor opposed we're going to
go
e e
okay we are back in Open Session I do
not see anything else on the agenda for
this evening
we are back in Open
Session anybody else have anything for
the betterment of the
county if not ask for motion to adjourn
Council Coleman thank you have a great