1 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,280 the May 28th, 2026 meeting of the bright 2 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,480 Turner Revision Commission to order. Um, 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:17,920 we're going to get them be getting the 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,279 minutes for next meeting. Um, Jessica 5 00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:23,840 has done them and is sending them to us. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,560 Uh, I have no reasons to modify the 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,560 agenda. Does anyone else have any reason 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,160 to want to modify the agenda? 9 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,800 Okay, we'll move right into old 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,640 business, which is we're going to pick 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,000 up where we left off from last week, 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,879 which is the form of annual town meeting 13 00:00:42,879 --> 00:00:45,600 to include in the charter. And as a 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,800 quick quick recap for anybody who hasn't 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,920 watched last week's meeting yet or last 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,199 two weeks ago meeting and uh or needs a 17 00:00:55,199 --> 00:00:56,879 refresher 18 00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:00,399 um where we left it was 19 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:03,199 um you know we had had we talked about 20 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:05,920 the results of the March vote 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,119 um and whether we should in any way 22 00:01:09,119 --> 00:01:11,040 change what we have in the charter which 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,400 is right now open town meeting. Peter 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,360 and I asked for an opportunity to put 25 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,119 some information together about how we 26 00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:21,759 might be able to do a combined 27 00:01:21,759 --> 00:01:24,320 open town meeting Australian ballot. And 28 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:26,400 so that's what we want to talk to you 29 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,400 folks about right now. And we have put 30 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,240 some information together for anybody 31 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,240 who's watching on TV. You can go to the 32 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,479 brattleboroough.gov 33 00:01:38,479 --> 00:01:41,680 gov website, go to the charter page and 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,400 you'll find the handouts that we're 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,759 going to be referring to. And before I 36 00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:49,920 start, I just want everyone to know 37 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,000 we're not presuming right now that we're 38 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,920 going with a combined. I mean, Peter and 39 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,159 I are not sitting here doing this as if 40 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:59,840 we've all decided to go with a combined 41 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,920 system because we know some people 42 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,159 might not want to. But what we asked 43 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:08,479 last meeting is if we could come forward 44 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,080 with how we might be able to do a 45 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,840 combined system. Um, so we we and we put 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,879 a cover memo together. Um, and I'm going 47 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:18,400 to let Peter talk about some of this 48 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,840 because we equally work together and I 49 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,959 don't want to the spotlight. Um, 50 00:02:24,959 --> 00:02:27,520 >> go ahead, Madam Chair. But yeah, and 51 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,319 what we did is we um took some the some 52 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:34,400 of the suggestions that we received at 53 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,400 the last meeting 54 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,280 um and we listened to Hillary and we 55 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,280 talked to Hillary again and we talked to 56 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,480 some other people and we've come up with 57 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,640 I think three things to talk about and 58 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:50,640 we might find there's something else 59 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:52,080 that we need to talk about but we put 60 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,680 down what we came up with and again n 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,280 None of this is cast in stone. It's just 62 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,040 we need a talk. We need a place to start 63 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,800 the conversation. Um so we have like 64 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,680 three different kind suggestions and 65 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,760 Peter again if I say that you want step 66 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:08,640 in. Got it. 67 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:11,599 >> Um the first was a suggestion we 68 00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:13,840 received from the public last week which 69 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,159 would be to do the open town meeting in 70 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:20,080 January and have the budget vote on the 71 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,920 first Tuesday in March. You know to 72 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:23,280 coincide with the vote that we already 73 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,080 do on town meeting day. Um then we did 74 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,760 um a 75 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,799 uh town meeting day 76 00:03:34,799 --> 00:03:37,120 same March 77 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,680 7th or would be March 7th 2028 but um 78 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,400 town meeting day the 79 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,239 Australian ballot for elected officials 80 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:47,519 and everything would be done the first 81 00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:50,400 Tuesday in March as always. We would do 82 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,560 an open town meeting either the sec 83 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,480 first or second Saturday in March 84 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,959 followed after that 30 to 40 days later 85 00:03:58,959 --> 00:04:01,360 by an Australian ballot vote. So that 86 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,599 would be, you know, not changing Yeah. 87 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:05,200 on the budget. Australian ballot vote on 88 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,760 the budget. So not not flipping the 89 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,200 order, keeping the order the same. Um, 90 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,239 and then there are 91 00:04:14,239 --> 00:04:16,639 and there's two different ways that any 92 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:20,560 of this could happen or the the ones the 93 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,479 Australian ballot vote that would happen 94 00:04:22,479 --> 00:04:24,560 after town meeting day could either 95 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,520 happen automatically or it could be 96 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,520 activated by either a vote at open town 97 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,040 meeting or by a citizen 98 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,240 I don't want to say petition or 99 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,000 referendum or whatever. So there are 100 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,919 different ways that that could happen. 101 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:42,960 So, what you have, and I'm going to let 102 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Peter walk through these, too, um is 103 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,000 there's a sheet here that says 104 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,360 information regarding the three 105 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,080 alternatives for a combined system. That 106 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,440 is where those um are laid out. And what 107 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,440 we've tried to do is is not pick one 108 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,000 over the other, but to say like this is 109 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,600 why this is how this would happen. This 110 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,440 is why this might work and this might 111 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,000 not work. Um and the pros and the cons. 112 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,600 Obviously, this is not a comprehensive 113 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,120 list and I'm sure people here are going 114 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,320 to look at it and go, "Well, what about 115 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,919 this? What about that?" But we need to 116 00:05:13,919 --> 00:05:15,280 start the discussion somewhere. So, 117 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:17,199 that's why we have this right now. 118 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:18,479 >> So, Peter, I don't know if you want to 119 00:05:18,479 --> 00:05:20,320 walk through this. Yeah. And we're going 120 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,000 to look at this memo again that says on 121 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,840 the top information regarding the three 122 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,000 alternatives. 123 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,120 So um what we tried to do in uh this 124 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,600 document was um name aspects that um 125 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,360 differentiate 126 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,680 um one or two from the other one or two 127 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,520 so that um it gives a little bit of an 128 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,960 opportunity to um frame the conversation 129 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,280 um that we'll be getting into shortly 130 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:48,880 where we um it's more of a pros and cons 131 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,479 kind of a conversation here. we were 132 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:53,759 trying to just state um factual impacts 133 00:05:53,759 --> 00:05:57,199 of choosing one versus another. So for 134 00:05:57,199 --> 00:06:00,000 instance um the first two bullets for 135 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,960 both the um January OTM alternative and 136 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:11,280 the uh automatic AB if it's AB otm AB um 137 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:13,840 for both the of those two alternatives 138 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:15,360 the first two bullets are clarity and 139 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,440 consistency because we would all know 140 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,960 ahead of time what the rules are. So, um 141 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,720 there's going to be a certain sort of 142 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,280 cadence to it that we would follow and 143 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:26,560 we would follow it automatically 144 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,199 whichever of those two might be the uh 145 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:31,360 chosen option. And then as you get 146 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,960 deeper down into the bullets for each of 147 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:34,240 those two, there are some things that 148 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,759 distinguish them. Um the January 149 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:40,319 alternative would be the most efficient 150 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:42,880 um in terms of the use of the voters's 151 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,039 time only having to show up one time for 152 00:06:45,039 --> 00:06:48,160 an AB. um and also of town government's 153 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,120 resources in terms of not having to um 154 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,720 have multiple steps to the process. Um 155 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,039 but it would require that the town 156 00:06:57,039 --> 00:06:58,560 government, the town administration and 157 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,000 the select board prepare a budget um 158 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,160 earlier by at least a month. Um the 159 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,759 right now there's kind of some play in 160 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:09,199 it. It's typically the budget is 161 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:10,800 typically finished by about the 1st of 162 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,639 February even though traditionally we 163 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:13,840 haven't been considering it in time 164 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,840 meeting until the middle of March. So, 165 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,080 we think that that can be tightened and 166 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,560 it'll be approximately a month earlier 167 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,440 that the uh budget process would need to 168 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,680 start and be completed uh in order to 169 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,520 make this system work. And there's a 170 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,599 logistical question about the basketball 171 00:07:29,599 --> 00:07:31,199 season being in January in the middle of 172 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:32,560 basketball season might make it more 173 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,919 complicated to get the BHS gym. Um I'll 174 00:07:35,919 --> 00:07:39,120 say personally I think the governance 175 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,160 aspects are more important than the um 176 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,479 access to the gym. I think we can work 177 00:07:44,479 --> 00:07:48,720 through um uh as a community options 178 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,120 that might be available, but um the 179 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,039 preference has been clearly identified 180 00:07:53,039 --> 00:07:55,280 to continue to meet in the gym. And so 181 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,639 um we named that as a concern from uh uh 182 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:01,280 if we chose that first option. 183 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,120 The uh second one um would automatically 184 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,680 require two Australian ballot votes each 185 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,120 year um each spring. the uh town meeting 186 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,800 David vote and then the later vote on 187 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,440 the budget. Um 188 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,560 although it's been observed that um 189 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,479 perhaps if the second vote is just on 190 00:08:20,479 --> 00:08:22,080 the budget that we might be able to have 191 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,360 that be not a full-blown um fully 192 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,879 staffed kind of election setup um like 193 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:30,639 we typically have at the Legion but 194 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:32,320 maybe could be done uh more 195 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,599 cost-ffectively. So there's a 196 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:35,839 conversation still to be had around the 197 00:08:35,839 --> 00:08:39,120 um logistical aspect of that. Um and 198 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,959 then the uh third is um less consistent 199 00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:49,040 the this option of um a conditional 200 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,720 we've called it um Australian ballot 201 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,920 where there would be under certain 202 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,000 conditions an Australian ballot vote 203 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,519 would be held rather than automatically 204 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:59,600 every year um on the budget. Um it lacks 205 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,279 consistency and clarity. There would be 206 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:03,040 variation from year to year depending on 207 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,240 circumstances. Um that means that there 208 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,240 is the potential of saving time and 209 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,640 money on years when there the budget is 210 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,279 not a contentious issue in town. Um but 211 00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:15,279 it also means that um there's less 212 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:17,440 certainty and potential for more 213 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,120 confusion around um the process and um 214 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,800 maybe harder for people to participate 215 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,040 in the process. 216 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,560 Um, 217 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,360 one way to help alleviate that if this 218 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,760 was the chosen path, um, would be to 219 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,320 have an automatic, 220 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,120 um, activator. So something like how the 221 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,839 action is taken at town meeting affects 222 00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:43,680 whether or not the um, uh, Australian 223 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:48,000 ballot is um, automatically warned. Um, 224 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,440 and of course, there would always be the 225 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,560 opportunity to to u petition to have it 226 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:55,200 heard. Um, 227 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,360 a nice thing about the automatic option 228 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,160 if it was AB otmab 229 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,320 is um, no petition would ever be 230 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,720 required because the the vote on the 231 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,320 budget would automatically occur each 232 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,480 year. And so, um, from a sort of 233 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,880 community civic health perspective as 234 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,560 well as a, um, um, 235 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,800 time efficiency in trying to make sure 236 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,800 that this process gets done whenever 237 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,480 possible before July 1st and the 238 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,480 beginning of a new fiscal year. Um, that 239 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,360 there are some pretty clear advantages 240 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,160 to if it if it is ABOT, there's some 241 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,519 pretty clear advantages to having it be 242 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:38,240 automatic rather than conditional. Um 243 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,200 we also uh suggest so I'll say um from 244 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,200 my perspective not necessarily our 245 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,720 perspective because we haven't discussed 246 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,120 it this way um I don't have a strong 247 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,800 preference for any one of these I have 248 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,440 some concerns about each one um and I'm 249 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,959 looking forward to the conversation to 250 00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:58,640 see where we might land um but we did 251 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,040 have conversations about some aspects of 252 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,640 this that we thought should apply um uh 253 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,160 to any of the alternatives that might be 254 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,519 chosen. So, there's different paths we 255 00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:08,959 could travel, but then in traveling 256 00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:11,120 those paths, there's certain um aspects 257 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,640 of a new system that we thought would be 258 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,800 important. And so, I say we on this one 259 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,000 because we did have extensive 260 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,600 conversation and frame this language 261 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,920 together. Um we uh heard a suggestion 262 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,680 that um OTM ought to not be able to 263 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:28,000 reject a budget, that ought to have an 264 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,920 obligation to pass a budget, whether 265 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,920 it's an uh the select board's 266 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,360 recommended budget or whether it's an 267 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,519 amended one. Um we think that's a good 268 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:38,480 suggestion. Again, um one of the things 269 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,160 that we're going to need to um be 270 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,959 mindful of as we decide on a system um 271 00:11:42,959 --> 00:11:44,480 is the passage of time. And there's 272 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,079 timelines for each of these different 273 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:48,320 alternatives that are um some sample 274 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,760 timelines that are provided as part of 275 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,360 the backup tonight. It's not the only 276 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,279 way that each one could unfold, but it's 277 00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,240 a um 278 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,120 in each case the way that made the most 279 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,000 sense to us in terms of the 30 to 40day 280 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,480 timelines that are required for gaps in 281 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,320 between as each different piece of this 282 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,760 gets warned. And so, um there are 283 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,120 circumstances where it will be 284 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,040 challenging to get a budget adopted by 285 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,600 July 1st, uh in order to implement with 286 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,880 the beginning of the new fiscal year. 287 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,639 There's also safeguards that we can put 288 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:23,200 into the um charter um to make it really 289 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,800 clear that town government has the 290 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,480 authority to continue to operate on July 291 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,000 1st if there isn't an approved budget 292 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,000 for the new year that they can operate 293 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,160 um in accordance with the the um 294 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,560 authority of the prior year's budget um 295 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,360 as if it had been readopted identical to 296 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,279 what it was in the prior year just to 297 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:40,720 tide the town over so it keeps 298 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,560 functioning in July while we the 299 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,320 community finish our work on approving 300 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,160 what it's going to be for the new year. 301 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,200 Um, so we think that getting into July 302 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,240 for a final decision, it really isn't 303 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,120 um to use informal language, it's not 304 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,720 the end of the world. Um, and it's also 305 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,519 um definitely not the best outcome. It's 306 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:04,560 um it's a act an outcome that has um 307 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,480 negative practical implications for the 308 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,760 operation of town government that we 309 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,639 should try to avoid if we can. Um and so 310 00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:12,720 uh we think that it's an advantage for 311 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,279 that reason to have OTM have to pass out 312 00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:17,600 something whether they amend what's 313 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,720 brought to them by the select board or 314 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,320 whether they approve it as the select 315 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,560 board has proposed it. Um having to 316 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,519 approve something at OTM to um send to 317 00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:28,160 the Australian ballot uh phase of this 318 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,639 we think is appropriate. 319 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,440 And then um we also think it's 320 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,200 appropriate that for the Australian 321 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,519 ballot vote to reject the budget that is 322 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:41,279 sent to the ballot um by OTM that the 323 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:42,959 threshold for rejection of the budget 324 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,839 should be 60% plus one rather than 50% 325 00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:48,480 plus one. So a super majority required. 326 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,440 The thinking there is um that the um 327 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,519 back to the what brought us even into 328 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:56,880 this conversation. Those of you who were 329 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,240 in the room and I think about half of 330 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,000 you were and about half of you weren't 331 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,839 um last week um or two weeks ago um 332 00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:06,079 heard the discussion of the commission 333 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:08,560 around um interpreting the results of 334 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,560 the election. And so um we have some 335 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,639 difference of opinion among us that we 336 00:14:14,639 --> 00:14:17,120 will uh work through as we have this 337 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,480 conversation. 338 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,160 um around the uh the outcome of the 339 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,279 election either being um indicating to 340 00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:28,480 us that the people of the town want both 341 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,040 aspects of this system or don't 342 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,279 necessarily want both as aspects of this 343 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:35,680 system. Um I'm not going to try to speak 344 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,560 for others about um the alternative 345 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,040 point of view, but for Kate and me um we 346 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,639 do think that the outcome of the vote 347 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:45,120 said the people of the town said by a 348 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,839 small margin we're done with our RTM and 349 00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:50,240 then by relatively larger margins for 350 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,320 both OTM and AB um we like the both of 351 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,240 these systems. So when asked what would 352 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,959 you replace RTM with? The voters of the 353 00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:00,959 town said we would like to replace it 354 00:15:00,959 --> 00:15:02,959 with OTM. They also said we would like 355 00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:05,920 to replace it with AB. And we think that 356 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,199 provides our commission with guidance to 357 00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:10,639 do this piece of work that we're doing 358 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:12,079 right now of trying to find a way for 359 00:15:12,079 --> 00:15:14,720 these two systems to work together. 360 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,800 We equally think that if we're going to 361 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,320 rely on those results from the voters as 362 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,800 indication of preference that it's fair 363 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,880 to look at the tally related to uh open 364 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,560 town meeting, the tally related to 365 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,639 Australian ballot and see that the open 366 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:35,279 town meeting vote, there were more yeses 367 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,399 and fewer nos than the Australian ballot 368 00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:40,800 vote. And so we think that it's 369 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,399 appropriate to have um for that reason 370 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:47,279 in terms of the um intentions of the 371 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:52,320 town voters and for the reason of the um 372 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:53,920 uh efficiency and clarity of the 373 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,959 process. So back to the idea that moving 374 00:15:56,959 --> 00:16:01,360 a process along um with the u best 375 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,120 probability of having a successful 376 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,560 outcome and having a budget that can be 377 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,800 implemented on July 1st. Um for those 378 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,120 reasons, we think that um a budget 379 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,519 rejection at Australian ballot should 380 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:15,519 require a supermajority of no votes. 381 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:18,320 And then related to that would apply to 382 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,279 any of the three options related just to 383 00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:24,079 the two that go ABMA. 384 00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:28,880 Um we think that that uh the rejection 385 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,000 of a budget by Australian ballot should 386 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,839 not send the process all the way back to 387 00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:35,360 the start with the select board. We 388 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,800 don't think that there's time for that, 389 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,560 frankly. And um by warning immediately 390 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,720 after such a rejection, by warning the 391 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,120 next OTM to consider the budget, 392 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,199 there'll be a 30 to 40day window within 393 00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:48,639 which the select board will have an 394 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,800 opportunity and the town staff will have 395 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,120 an opportunity to do further work on the 396 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,279 rejected budget so as to be able to make 397 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:57,839 a recommendation to the OTM of any 398 00:16:57,839 --> 00:16:59,759 changes that town administration would 399 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:02,240 recommend. So that by the time the OTM 400 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,240 is held, we're saying basically it 401 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,679 doesn't need to go back and start again 402 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:08,079 at the select board. We need to get a a 403 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:09,679 meeting warned as soon as possible to 404 00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:11,760 keep the process moving. But the select 405 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,199 board would have an opportunity during 406 00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:15,919 that month to make a new recommendation 407 00:17:15,919 --> 00:17:18,480 for OTM to consider. OTM's action would 408 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,319 then um be um immediately after the OTM 409 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,319 warned for the next Australian ballot 410 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,640 vote on the budget. 411 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,640 And for this same reason, that's a 412 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,039 recurring theme around 413 00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:35,360 um having this be a um as thorough a 414 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:36,960 process as possible, but also a 415 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,320 timeefficient process that doesn't lag 416 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,160 so as to get to an outcome and be able 417 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,480 to implement a budget. If there's a 418 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,240 second rejected AB, um a sec a second 419 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,919 time, this would be like a um June or 420 00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:57,280 July time frame for this vote for the uh second Australian ballot vote in 421 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280 any given year on the budget. If it's 422 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,200 rejected for a second time, we think it 423 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,160 ought to then go back to uh an open town 424 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,080 meeting and be back and forth between 425 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,600 open town meeting and select board until 426 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,160 there's an outcome without another 427 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,160 return. And so it would be from there on 428 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,760 two steps in the process rather than 429 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,480 three steps in the process each time. 430 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,400 And that's what we there's there's 431 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,160 timelines that are reflective of what I 432 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,480 just described that we can go over in 433 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,880 more detail if you'd like. They're they 434 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,640 support basically what I've just 435 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,320 described and we're looking forward to 436 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,200 the conversation. 437 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,799 >> Just a quick clarifying question if I 438 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:34,960 can just because of this. You said back 439 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,880 and forth between OTM and the select 440 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,000 board. That's still a hypothetical back 441 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000 of what you've laid out if that would be 442 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,960 the 60% plus one or 50%. 443 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,799 >> Yes. So the if if it were ultimately 444 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,440 approved that 60% plus one is required 445 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,360 then that that would presume that that 446 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,880 two times both in April and in June or 447 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,440 July that the outcome on Australian 448 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,919 ballot was greater than 60% opposed to 449 00:19:01,919 --> 00:19:04,720 the budget. And in that instance, after 450 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,480 the second rejection, we do think it 451 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,120 needs to go back to the town government. 452 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,799 We we've used the phrase town government 453 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:13,840 so that it's kind of town staff, select 454 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,160 board, some combination thereof to be 455 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,520 determined by the town staff and the 456 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,720 select board rather than by us. Um but 457 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,160 um in the in the case of two rejections, 458 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,559 we think it must go back to town 459 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:28,640 government so that town government has 460 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,080 an opportunity to um rework what has now 461 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,160 been rejected twice and can make a 462 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,240 proposal. By then we're already into a 463 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,760 situation where the new fiscal year is 464 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,240 starting on last year's budget. And so 465 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,400 taking the additional time in the July 466 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,039 August time frame to actually go back 467 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:46,559 and 468 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:48,799 rework the budget we think is necessary 469 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:52,630 under those circumstances. 470 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,400 » And the timelines are just samples and 471 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,080 as you'll see and we we did this based 472 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,080 on our conversation with Hillary that 473 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,640 the minimum number of days we need is 474 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,600 30. you know, between 30 and 40 days. 475 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,960 So, we try to just sh it's more to show 476 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,840 how it would work and where how far we 477 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,160 can get in the process before we get 478 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,080 past July 1st. You know what I mean? So, 479 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,160 it's you can have we can go through the 480 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,270 process once and still stay 481 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,480 in um April 482 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:31,520 or May, 483 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,480 >> right? Even when we started in in March, 484 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,840 it's when if a budget is rejected and we 485 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,679 have to do it a second time is when we 486 00:20:39,679 --> 00:20:42,559 get back into the issue where it's 487 00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:44,480 passed 488 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,280 July 1st 489 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,240 >> under some circumstances 490 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,080 >> under some under some circumstances. 491 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,760 >> One other thing I think is worth noting 492 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,640 if we do refer to these sample timelines 493 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,880 as we have the discussion um they are 494 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,080 using the real dates for town meeting 495 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,760 day. the real day for town meeting day 496 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,760 and then all the other dates play off of 497 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,159 that starting point. Um but the real day 498 00:21:06,159 --> 00:21:09,520 for town meeting day of March 7th, 2028 499 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:16,720 um is is um used as sort of the um 500 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,440 the given for this. Um and it's 501 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,520 important to note that that means this 502 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,159 is the latest possible calendar for any 503 00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:25,520 of the seven, right? We could have a 504 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,520 town meeting day on March 1st or on 505 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,280 March 7th or any of the days in between. 506 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,240 we will over the years have all of those 507 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,640 different um uh things happen and this 508 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,919 is the example of the latest of any of 509 00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:42,400 the possible ways of this occurring. So 510 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,880 the fact that this one does take us into 511 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,200 July um on um I think two of the three 512 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,280 alternatives um again it different 513 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,640 people can have different opinions about 514 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,200 how much of a problem that is. That's a 515 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,440 thing to weigh for sure. Um, but it's 516 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,840 also there will be years when this that 517 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,320 isn't the case even in a time when 518 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,480 there's two budgets because the the 519 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,640 reason that July 11th shows up as the 520 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,280 time for the second AB vote in those 521 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,159 scenarios um is because the week prior 522 00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:17,120 on Tuesday is July 4th. So in years 523 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,240 where let's say it's the the 2nd of 524 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,240 March is town meeting day. So that's 5 525 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,679 days earlier 5 days earlier than um 5 526 00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,240 days earlier than March 7th. So 5 days 527 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,320 earlier than July 4th is actually still 528 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,520 in June for there to be another AB vote 529 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,760 that could possibly um provide approval. 530 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,679 And it's last minute, but it would still 531 00:22:37,679 --> 00:22:39,760 be um an approved budget before the town 532 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,200 enters the new fiscal year. 533 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,880 >> And and just so people know why there 534 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,400 are two March examples. The first one is 535 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,799 March 18, 2028, which is the second 536 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:51,360 Tuesday after the second Saturday after 537 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:52,480 the first Tuesday, which is the 538 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,960 preferred date that the town clerk's 539 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,200 office would love to do a town meeting. 540 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,159 We also ran March 11th, the first 541 00:23:00,159 --> 00:23:02,640 Saturday, which is the f first Saturday 542 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,640 after the first Tuesday, so we could see 543 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,640 another example of March. And then we 544 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,559 have the flipped. And I just want to 545 00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:10,240 make it really clear to everybody, we 546 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,159 only go into May or June or May or July 547 00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:17,039 if the budget is rejected. If this, you 548 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:18,640 know what I mean, if the select board's 549 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,039 budget and the OTM budget is rejected. 550 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:22,400 Otherwise, 551 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,280 >> I think it's done. 552 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,480 >> It's done in April. 553 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:27,760 >> Um, yes. 554 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,080 >> Can I ask a question? 555 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,280 >> Um, the 556 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,600 we're the third ex what I'll call the 557 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,919 third example. 558 00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:42,080 Um, you have activator could be by a 559 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,720 fixed rule, you know, that's where you 560 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,280 have this 60 plus one. 561 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,360 >> Um, 562 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:52,320 how do you envision 563 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,760 that vote taking place? I know when I 564 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,280 saw that I I was reminded that in years 565 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,440 past RTM 566 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,120 sometimes did votes by ballot. for 567 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:11,669 example, on um borrowing money or 568 00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:14,720 » moving the big one was moving the police 569 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,640 station. 570 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,159 Um is that how you envision figuring out 571 00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:22,000 how you get to 60 plus one? 572 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,919 >> Not how I was envisioning. This could be 573 00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:26,480 accomplished by just standing up for yay 574 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,720 and standing up for nay. But it but it 575 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,240 also could be done. 576 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,640 >> The reason why I asked is because I I 577 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,360 several people have 578 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:38,640 said to me that they like OTM and they 579 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,039 like voting on the budget, but 580 00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,760 because they're business people, and I 581 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,880 think we've heard this in in the past 582 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,960 also, because they're business people, 583 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,440 they're they're afraid or they're 584 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,640 fearful that their vote will be taken in 585 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,360 a way that would affect their business. 586 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,200 Now, I I don't know whether that's true 587 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,440 or not, but if they feel that way, you 588 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,840 know, that's the way they feel. 589 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,760 >> So, I would say that if we if we do an 590 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,039 activator and and um I have to say that 591 00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:16,159 I'm leaning toward that 592 00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:19,679 option that it should be 593 00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:25,190 like paper ballot. 594 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,870 Okay. 595 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,960 We should say the timelines don't 596 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,480 reflect 597 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,480 an activator. They don't don't reflect 598 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,080 the third option at all. They reflect 599 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,240 two different possibilities for the 600 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,520 second option. 601 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,000 >> Yeah. 602 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,919 >> Because the third option other than in 603 00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:43,840 the scenario that that 604 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,760 >> is possible depending on our how our 605 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,760 conversation goes around something that 606 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,440 would be activated by an accident of 607 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,480 town meeting. 608 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,039 >> The the likelier um activator would be a 609 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:56,480 petition. Whether that's a 10-day 610 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,400 petition or a 30-day petition, in either 611 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,120 case, you know, it depends on the timing 612 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:02,640 of the petition and the certifying of 613 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,080 the petition and then the warning of the 614 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,520 meeting. I mean, there's a there's a 615 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,080 time an unknown aspect to that timeline 616 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,080 that made it impossible for us to 617 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,440 >> Yeah, that's why I I would be in favor 618 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,159 of we go with that option to have an 619 00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:18,400 activator. 620 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,440 >> I mean, there can always be a request 621 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,840 for I mean, we have petition requests 622 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,880 in the charter. 623 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,159 >> We do. 624 00:26:28,159 --> 00:26:30,159 >> Um, again, because we have a limited 625 00:26:30,159 --> 00:26:32,880 amount of time to get to July 1st, the 626 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,520 second option would move this process 627 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,320 along to a ballot in a certain and more 628 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,600 efficient period of time. If we left it 629 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,039 to the uncertainty of the third option, 630 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,320 um, we will more often bump up against 631 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:56,230 the July 1 deadline. 632 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,559 Maybe we can combine 633 00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:03,990 the second and third options. 634 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,080 » Yeah, I think Kate and I definitely make 635 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,760 no representation that there isn't a 636 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,520 fourth and a fifth and a 10th option. 637 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,440 >> I mean, in this conversation, we expect 638 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,320 that there'll be some morphing that'll 639 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,679 occur that it won't necessarily be 640 00:27:15,679 --> 00:27:17,039 picking one of these, but these are a 641 00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,080 starting point for the conversation. 642 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,039 Tana, 643 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:22,480 >> I feel like we're treating this 644 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,840 conversation like we're already 645 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,520 considering one of these three. And I 646 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,320 know you said we're not, but I I think 647 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,159 there are 648 00:27:30,159 --> 00:27:33,919 logistical and legal issues with all of 649 00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:35,840 these that need to be addressed before 650 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,039 we can start talking about whether or 651 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:38,480 not there's an activator. I mean, 652 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,320 there's already a procedure under state 653 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,640 law and our and our charter as it exists 654 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,039 now to do an Australian ballot after an 655 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,080 open town meeting. And I just don't see 656 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,559 why we need to make things more 657 00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:53,120 complicated. And some of these 658 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:54,640 suggestions, I mean, I don't I don't 659 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,919 want to just immediately jump into this, 660 00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:00,080 but stuff like saying OTM has to pass a 661 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,919 budget. That's you're infringing on 662 00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:03,600 people's constitutional right to vote 663 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,200 how they want. You're I mean, it could 664 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,880 even be argued to be like a you can't force people to vote. Yes. you 665 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,200 and and 666 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,200 you you 667 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:21,190 I just I I'm I'm so baffled that 668 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,279 we I I feel like for years we've been 669 00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:27,360 talking about ways to make voting more 670 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,120 accessible, make town government easier 671 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,399 to access, and this seems like a step in 672 00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:34,399 the wrong direction. 673 00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:39,600 And I am very concerned that we're headed 674 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,360 down a road where one of these is the 675 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,640 only thing that's going to like that there's no consideration of whether 676 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,960 or not this is even an appropriate thing 677 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,399 to do both. And I I I would really like 678 00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:52,240 to have that conversation. And I feel 679 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:58,880 like I I I just don't want to get into the the 680 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,799 nitty-gritty of which of these is best 681 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:02,880 because quite frankly I don't think any 682 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,120 of these are best. 683 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,440 And I and I hear you and I think 684 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,200 you know we do have something in the 685 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,360 petition in the petition pendant charter 686 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,200 about referendum or or or not referendum 687 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,399 well whatever it is you know 688 00:29:18,399 --> 00:29:19,039 reconsideration 689 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,440 >> petition for reconsideration. Um, but 690 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,600 that requires 425 signatures. 691 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,799 You know what I mean? So, I think we're 692 00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:30,159 making we're making it almost impossible 693 00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:33,200 for somebody who wants the budget to go 694 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,000 to Australian ballot vote to do that. 695 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,240 And I think B this is just like on that 696 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,120 point. We did have this vote in March 697 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,880 and I don't think it's right to tell 698 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440 some tell people you have to go get 425 699 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,640 signatures in order to have an 700 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,320 Australian ballot budget vote on the 701 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:56,640 budget. So that's sort of where I am on yes, it it says something in our 702 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,399 charter about being able to reconsider 703 00:29:58,399 --> 00:30:00,720 something at town meeting, but is it 704 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,520 based on the vote that we had in March? 705 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,159 Is that the appropriate thing to tell 706 00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:07,440 people? Well, you got to go out and get 707 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,520 425 signatures. 708 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,880 >> You know, why wouldn't I feel like the 709 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,240 easy option then would be to say, let's 710 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,320 just lower that threshold instead of 711 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,000 creating this system where there's 712 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,919 suddenly two votes. It's extra work for 713 00:30:17,919 --> 00:30:20,640 staff. It's extra work for voters to 714 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:21,679 understand and 715 00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:23,039 >> well that's one of our one of the 716 00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:25,520 options is is the activator and is one 717 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,720 of the activators saying you need to get 718 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,039 you know there need to be 50 people that 719 00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:32,559 sign a petition. I don't think I mean 720 00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:34,640 that's one of our things is is talking 721 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,760 about what you're talking about 722 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,480 >> and the January option actually doesn't 723 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,080 require a second AV at all. There's 724 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,440 already going to be an election on town 725 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,600 meeting day. So if there was an OTM in 726 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,840 January followed by the town meeting day 727 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,679 election that would also include voting 728 00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:52,320 on the budget um then um it's actually 729 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,960 not even an extra um step in the 730 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,840 process. So um and I want to reiterate 731 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:58,960 we don't think these are the only three 732 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,399 things. So we think that there's a more 733 00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:02,159 complicated conversation to be had but 734 00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:05,919 embedded within these I think are from 735 00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:09,039 our perspective at least ways to balance 736 00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:11,840 the um 737 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,440 work that we had already done the system 738 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:14,880 we had already developed and the work 739 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,399 that we did over two and a half years 740 00:31:16,399 --> 00:31:18,480 together and with the public during that 741 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,480 two and a half years also especially 742 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,760 during the final year of it um and as 743 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,000 Kate said the results of the election in 744 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,360 March there was an election in March 745 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,279 there were months of runup to that with 746 00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:32,240 a very active community dialogue around 747 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,320 pros and cons of different systems and 748 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,279 we landed in this um challenging place 749 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:39,440 of both of the alternatives being 750 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,159 preferred um by a you know decent 751 00:31:42,159 --> 00:31:46,080 margin. And so um it's a fair place for 752 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,919 you to land personally in a different 753 00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:50,080 place than that and say as you did last 754 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,320 time you continue to think that what we 755 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,080 put together last August is the right 756 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,360 system. I totally respect that. Um, and 757 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,039 I think we need to have a conversation 758 00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:04,559 around these these other options and the 759 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:06,080 things that we haven't named that might 760 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,240 spin off of one or another or come as an 761 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,440 entirely different idea. But without 762 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,159 having the consideration of how to try 763 00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:15,919 to make one of these work, we're 764 00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:17,679 disrespecting the outcome of the March 765 00:32:17,679 --> 00:32:18,080 election. 766 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,080 >> I I I fundamentally disagree that that 767 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,200 is what that vote said. It didn't. 768 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,919 I can tell you I I voted and that's not 769 00:32:25,919 --> 00:32:28,960 what my vote said and that's not how I 770 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,960 think a lot of people think that their 771 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,039 vote would be considered. 772 00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:36,720 It it it it's if you want to consider it 773 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,240 that way, I think the only thing we can 774 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,000 take away is that there are now two 775 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,760 pending 776 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,480 diametrically opposed charter provisions 777 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,760 before the legislature and there is no 778 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,159 RTM. That's all we can know. We can't 779 00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:52,720 say that everyone wants both. that just 780 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,559 because 781 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,559 >> but so but but this is assuming that 782 00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:58,080 everyone wants both and that that's what 783 00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,039 we need to do. 784 00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:00,240 >> I'd like to say one more thing and I'm 785 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,519 going to be quiet so we don't just get 786 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:03,760 into an argument here but not suggesting 787 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,360 everyone wants both. I'm suggesting that 788 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,640 a majority of the voters on March 3rd 789 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,600 said yes to OTM and a majority of the 790 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,919 voters on March 3rd said yes to AB. 791 00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:16,000 That's driving our desire to try to have 792 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,320 a system that is combining these two 793 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,120 pieces to make them work. Another 794 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,559 alternative if we land either on our own 795 00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:26,480 or with community input in a place that 796 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,480 can't reconcile that. Another 797 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,840 alternative is for us to um take another 798 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,000 hiatus and ask the select board to warn 799 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,679 a vote so that the people get this time 800 00:33:35,679 --> 00:33:37,919 instead of separate questions of yes or 801 00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:40,399 no on two different things. Would you 802 00:33:40,399 --> 00:33:42,080 prefer this one or would you prefer that 803 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,240 one and 804 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,159 have have a vote that would provide a 805 00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:47,840 more clear outcome. I think that it 806 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,399 would um and I'm I'm seeing someone in 807 00:33:50,399 --> 00:33:52,240 the audience say three. So perhaps 808 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,399 putting RTM back also into the mix, but 809 00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:57,840 pick one of the three. Um I'm not 810 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,679 suggesting that. In fact, I my concern 811 00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:02,880 for that is the sort of civic welfare of 812 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,480 the town. I think that we've been 813 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,080 through a lot. I think we got to an 814 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,919 outcome. I think us trying to respect 815 00:34:07,919 --> 00:34:10,079 that outcome and make something work 816 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:12,800 here is the way forward. If we can't 817 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,560 find that way forward, then perhaps what 818 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,879 we ought to do is warn a vote where it's 819 00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:18,879 pick the one you want and get a clear 820 00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:21,679 outcome. 821 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,839 >> When um we had special town meeting, 822 00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:28,320 special RTM, 823 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,839 was it two years ago, and there was a 824 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:35,760 petition for a vote on 825 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,240 >> the ordinance. um did that require 400 826 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:40,720 yes 827 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,000 >> signatures 828 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,399 >> and they had no trouble getting that 829 00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:49,040 number of signatures. So I I'm not sure 830 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,760 the number of signatures is a barrier 831 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,720 although I might be in favor of lowering 832 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:57,119 that number. I I think it's it's a 833 00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:00,079 totally different situation because we 834 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:02,720 there was a charter there was a petition 835 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,880 circulated asking for us to have our 836 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,640 town meeting by Australian ballot 837 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,720 >> and then we had one open town meeting. 838 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,200 No, I'm talking I'm talking about 839 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,880 >> No, I'm I'm explaining why I think the 840 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,200 barrier has to be less than getting 425 841 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,520 signatures for the people by Australia 842 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,839 ballot because it's not fair to say you 843 00:35:23,839 --> 00:35:25,599 got to get 425. 844 00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:27,839 >> I was just asking whether they got 400. 845 00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:28,160 >> They did. 846 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:28,720 >> And they did. 847 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:29,440 >> They did. 848 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,839 >> So, but I would be in favor of lowering 849 00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:33,760 the number. 850 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,359 >> Yeah. 851 00:35:35,359 --> 00:35:37,760 And I think I would be in favor of 852 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,680 lowering the number for any any request 853 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,520 for 854 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,470 either referendum or open town meeting. 855 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,640 » Okay. Does anyone in the public want to 856 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,000 give us your opinion? 857 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,040 >> And if you can um state your name for 858 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,680 the minutes and for 859 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,790 BCTV. 860 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,880 » Sorry. Frickbrite, 861 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,560 District 9. Um, 862 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,640 I would like to say there's been a lot 863 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,280 of assumptions made here. Um, especially 864 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,640 with regard to the uh result of the vote 865 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:25,280 and earlier was a result of the uh poll that you guys took that uh many 866 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,790 of us were completely unaware of. Um 867 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,680 the I'm not the only one who's looked at 868 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,839 the numbers from the votes and talked to 869 00:36:35,839 --> 00:36:39,040 people and 870 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,200 discovered that many people were 871 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,359 extremely confused by the uh collection 872 00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:48,400 of questions on last time meeting 873 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,200 ballot. Uh 874 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,440 the first question being phrased in the 875 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,880 negative could would likely have gone 876 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,200 the other way had it been phrased in the 877 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,160 positive. Uh a remarkable number of 878 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,079 people reported afterwards that they did 879 00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,119 not understand that 880 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:09,920 by voting yes they were voting against 881 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,359 RDM. So that's first. Second, um 882 00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:19,920 the number of people who voted yes 883 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,920 on those 884 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,520 was a bigger number based on statistical 885 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,800 analysis of numbers. Uh there were over 886 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,400 500 people on both of the second the 887 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,480 last two questions who voted for both. 888 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,079 Um and the people uh several of us have 889 00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:43,200 talked to who did that did not 890 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,280 understand 891 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,280 um the issue 892 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,960 genuinely did not understand it. So, I 893 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,359 think the cleanest answer is the one 894 00:37:55,359 --> 00:38:04,560 that just got mentioned, which is put out a really clean question that involves 895 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,520 the three choices in the affirmative in 896 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,280 every case 897 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,680 with a 898 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,920 meaningful education effort about what 899 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,560 the different options mean. And as a 900 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,480 longtime RTM member, I was not aware of 901 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,240 what we were giving up by going to OTM. 902 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,000 And there's a remarkable number of 903 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,359 different things that we have we gave up 904 00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:32,000 this year in terms of the power of the 905 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,760 voter 906 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,320 um including 907 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,920 uh 908 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,440 the uh apparently the power to impanel 909 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,680 uh finance review committee which 910 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,320 I um was rather surprised by and I I 911 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,520 don't believe that's the only thing. 912 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,800 There are some other things in the back 913 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,200 of my mind as well that I noticed, but 914 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,000 um that's that's a big one. 915 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,359 >> It's it's in the charter. 916 00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:00,720 >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the point I want to 917 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:01,520 make too. 918 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,200 >> I don't disbelieve that, but what I'm 919 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,320 saying is that 920 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:11,839 >> this this year and next year um we're without the opportunity for the um 921 00:39:11,839 --> 00:39:16,160 voters to um elect the finance committee 922 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,839 members. But beyond that, if the 923 00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:20,400 recommendations in our proposed charter 924 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,640 changes are approved, then it would be 925 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,640 actually not a not a town meeting 926 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,440 action, but a a ballot. People people 927 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,280 would just like running for select or 928 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,320 some other office. They would get 929 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,760 signatures, they get on the ballot, and 930 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:32,960 the people of the town would choose 931 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,119 who's on the finance committee. 932 00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,280 >> Can I just make one other point was 933 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,359 originally before these petitions came 934 00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:41,680 up, our plan was to present the vote to 935 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,480 discontinue RTM likely at the same time 936 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,480 as our proposed charter. So there 937 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,000 wouldn't have been this gap that we're 938 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,920 experiencing now, but that was due to 939 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,640 factors out beyond our control. 940 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,000 >> All right. 941 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,560 >> And one last clarification, and I don't 942 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:57,839 think it was your intention, but what 943 00:39:57,839 --> 00:40:00,160 you said is um a clear ballot that would 944 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,000 have each phrased in the in the 945 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,760 affirmative. And I just want to say 946 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,599 again, I don't think personally that 947 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:09,920 moving to another vote of the town, at 948 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000 least without a solid effort to try to 949 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,599 make some kind of a combined system 950 00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:14,800 work. I don't think that's in our 951 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,800 collective best interest. But if we do 952 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,680 it, it can't be naming each of the three 953 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,920 in the affirmative. It needs to be pick 954 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,440 one of the three. 955 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:24,720 >> Yeah, exactly. 956 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:25,440 >> Okay. 957 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:26,240 >> I think we're saying 958 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:27,839 >> otherwise. Yeah, I thought we were too, 959 00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:28,800 but I just want to make sure that's 960 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,960 clear in the otherwise we're not gaining 961 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,880 anything by going back to the polls. 962 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:45,670 Three choices. 963 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,640 » Dina Chadwick. Um, 964 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,599 so I've been loosely following this and 965 00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:53,920 um, you know, I own a business and I 966 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,560 talk to a lot of people all the time and 967 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,280 most recently my kids have grown up and 968 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,280 I can be more involved which is great. 969 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,440 Um, 970 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:04,880 one of the things that I could not be 971 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,800 involved with is sit in open town 972 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,119 meeting all day long. And now I can, 973 00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:12,160 which I'm happy to do as my civic duty. 974 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,680 But I talked to so many people and they 975 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,839 can't do it. They they want to do it. 976 00:41:17,839 --> 00:41:19,359 They want to know what's going on, but 977 00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:21,440 their lives are too busy. They're 978 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,079 raising kids. They're working two jobs. 979 00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:28,240 They just don't have the capacity. So um 980 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,280 I think that um there was three things 981 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,040 on the article. I mean the facts show 982 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,560 one failed and two passed. So we need to 983 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,920 honor everyone that voted and whether I 984 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,079 can talk to every you know say oh well 985 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:46,000 so and so didn't say that they 986 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,000 misunderstood it. I can say that I can 987 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,359 come up here and be like oh they didn't 988 00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:52,240 understand it but the facts say what 989 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:54,160 they say. You know, you can read it and 990 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,680 you can clearly see yes or no on this. 991 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,800 So, we have two things that the town 992 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,200 said yes, we want. So, we need to work 993 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,680 hard. I know change. Everyone's like, 994 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,480 "Oh, change. We don't want change. It's 995 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,400 too hard." That's the only thing that's 996 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,560 constant in life is change. And we got 997 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,880 to do the work. And I really appreciate 998 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,119 all of you guys getting together and 999 00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:19,280 hashing it out. But we got to get this 1000 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,680 right. We got to have both. And what it 1001 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,240 what that looks like to me would be an 1002 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,720 open town meeting earlier, inform 1003 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:29,599 everybody, and then everything that is a 1004 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:31,760 vote goes on the Australian ballot. 1005 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,000 Anything that's monetary like that 1006 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,640 affects people's bottom line and their 1007 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,720 community has to go on an Australian 1008 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:39,680 ballot 1009 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,599 >> because you can have people at home 1010 00:42:41,599 --> 00:42:44,000 watching the open town meeting. They can 1011 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,680 get educated. They don't have to 1012 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,839 participate. They can chime in and chime 1013 00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:50,800 out if they want to. But this is what 1014 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,040 needs to be done. Both of them passed. 1015 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,599 We need to move forward. We got to pull 1016 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,880 up our sleeves and do the hard work to 1017 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,119 make it happen for all of our community. 1018 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:02,640 And I think that will really bring us 1019 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:16,069 all together. Um, yeah. Thank you. 1020 00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:18,800 » I expect this mic is live. Maybe not. 1021 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,520 Timothy Bellnap, downtown resident, 1022 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,960 taxpayer, and voter. Um, first I'd like 1023 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,599 to just respectfully disagree with the 1024 00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:30,079 specious interpretation 1025 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:33,599 of the voting results. Right. You, your 1026 00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:36,000 team here, you put an amazing amount of 1027 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,760 work, enormous amount of work into 1028 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,440 reaching this point, and I understand 1029 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,440 the desire to finally push this across 1030 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,560 the finish line. but ignoring the voices 1031 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,000 of two thou what uh 2,300 residents at 1032 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,240 your own peril, a majority of who 1033 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:52,560 supported Australian ballot and open 1034 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,800 town meeting. If those voices are 1035 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,800 dismissed, I believe this proposal will 1036 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,599 be voted down and all of this work will 1037 00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:01,839 be for nothing. 1038 00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:04,319 A proposal that only allows Australian 1039 00:44:04,319 --> 00:44:07,760 ballot if 60% plus one person an open 1040 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,400 town meeting approves does not honor the 1041 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,280 will of the people either. To my ears, 1042 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,040 holding the open town meeting in 1043 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,200 January, followed by an Australian 1044 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,440 ballot makes the most sense both 1045 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,599 financially and from a timing 1046 00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:23,839 standpoint. It gives residents the 1047 00:44:23,839 --> 00:44:26,000 opportunity to fully debate the issue 1048 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,640 while ensuring everyone has an equal 1049 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:38,069 opportunity to vote. Thank you. 1050 00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:41,359 » Uh, hi Tom Graasso. Um, first of all, 1051 00:44:41,359 --> 00:44:43,040 thank you for all the time that you guys 1052 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,480 have been putting in. It's been it's 1053 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,240 been quite a long haul and I just get a 1054 00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:48,079 sense from the your faces that you're 1055 00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:50,079 kind of done with it. Um, and I can 1056 00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:53,200 understand it. Um, I also think that 1057 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,839 Bradboro has a tendency to be a very 1058 00:44:55,839 --> 00:44:57,760 deliberative kind of place. I mean, it 1059 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,960 took us how many years to put a 1060 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,200 skateboard park in, and this is even 1061 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,800 more complicated than that, I can 1062 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:03,680 imagine. 1063 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,640 >> Um, so I I appreciate that. I I do think 1064 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,599 um and I've listened to a lot of this uh 1065 00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:13,040 and and contributed some um we're we're 1066 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,599 faced now in a in a political climate 1067 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:17,359 where people are trying to limit the 1068 00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:19,599 ability of people to vote and there's a 1069 00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:22,000 recent you know court executive order by 1070 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,440 the current federal administration 1071 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:24,960 trying to limit the ability of mail and 1072 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,480 ballots. Um, so I think the fact that a 1073 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:29,920 majority of the people voted for 1074 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:31,599 Australian ballot in open town meeting 1075 00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:33,599 means that more people want to be more 1076 00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,839 involved. And I think Dina makes a 1077 00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:37,599 really important point. Just because you 1078 00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:38,800 can't go to the open town meeting 1079 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,160 doesn't mean you don't have a right to 1080 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,640 vote. And I don't think that giving more 1081 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,560 power to fewer people to vote is is is 1082 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,240 the way we should be going in in this 1083 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:49,760 day and age. So I think an open town 1084 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,160 meeting where if if there you want to 1085 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,640 have an advisory vote that goes back to 1086 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,440 the select board to say not 27 million 1087 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,680 but 26 million but I don't think the the 1088 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,599 OTM should be vested with the actual 1089 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:04,480 authority to either vote up or vote down 1090 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,240 uh the budget. That should be the select 1091 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,440 board and then presented to the entire voting uh population. So I do 1092 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,319 think that option one um is the simplest 1093 00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:16,720 most straightforward if you limit the 1094 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:19,200 vote of OTM2 on us to basically an 1095 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,680 advisory vote. Um and an advisory vote 1096 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,680 could be make some changes here, make 1097 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,119 some changes here if the budget can 1098 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:27,280 work. I I think Hannah makes some 1099 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,119 important points about the fact that 1100 00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:31,280 there's we need to work out how this is 1101 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,760 going to actually function and all that. 1102 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,280 But I do think that it's pretty clear 1103 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,839 what the what the public want wanted in 1104 00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:39,920 the last vote and you can say you didn't 1105 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,200 understand the vote, but that means you 1106 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:42,319 just didn't read the vote very 1107 00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:44,800 carefully. So, um I would I would 1108 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,160 encourage you guys to keep doing your 1109 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,079 work. Um I appreciate all the time you 1110 00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:51,359 put into it. So, thank you. 1111 00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:54,160 >> I want Hillary 1112 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,880 um Hillary Francis, town clerk. Um, I I 1113 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,079 think that I am not advocating one way 1114 00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:03,839 or another for any of these. I think 1115 00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:06,480 y'all have done a lot of work. Um, and I 1116 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,160 think like Hannah said, it doesn't have 1117 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,480 to be one of these. It, and you all have 1118 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,960 said that as well. Um, I think there are 1119 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,160 pros and cons to all of them. Um, and 1120 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,880 you took a lot of my thoughts and put 1121 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,040 them in your your um 1122 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,440 your backup materials. Um, I think that 1123 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,680 hearing you all speak, hearing the 1124 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,040 public speak, um, 1125 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,599 the results can be interpreted in a 1126 00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:39,599 million different ways. Um, and I I 1127 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:42,960 think that it's hard to 1128 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,440 hard and fast say this is what the 1129 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,000 results mean. Um, because we don't know 1130 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,160 what the results mean. It could mean 1131 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,040 anything that you want them to mean. um 1132 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,680 as we're hearing um based on your 1133 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,240 preference. Um I don't know what the 1134 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,040 answer is. Um but I just I think that 1135 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,960 it's we can't we can't know hard and 1136 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,680 fast what those results mean with the 1137 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,079 way that the questions were put on the 1138 00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:11,760 ballot because of petitions. They 1139 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,599 legally had to be put on put on that 1140 00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,240 way. Um and that was a challenge um for 1141 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:19,520 the voters and for um the interpretation 1142 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,040 of what those votes mean. Um, no matter 1143 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,880 what you all decide, no matter what the 1144 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,400 community advises, I would sort of 1145 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,920 begging strongly request that you don't 1146 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,079 go with the first Saturday after the 1147 00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:37,920 first Tuesday. Um, it is logistically 1148 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,480 really really challenging for our office 1149 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,319 and we are tasked with pulling all of 1150 00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:43,359 this off. 1151 00:48:43,359 --> 00:48:45,839 >> Um, we can pull almost anything off. We 1152 00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:48,960 can we can be magicians. Um but 1153 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,119 especially every four years and it will 1154 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:52,880 come every four years. There's a 1155 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,880 presidential primary on that first 1156 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,359 Tuesday and we have reporting that we 1157 00:48:57,359 --> 00:48:59,599 have to get done to the state in 1158 00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:01,599 addition to wrapping up everything and 1159 00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:05,599 we just logistically do not have time to 1160 00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:07,760 accurately print the checklist and do 1161 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,440 everything that we need to do in time 1162 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,839 for that Saturday or Sunday. Um, so 1163 00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:16,640 short of begging, I would I would please please do not do it the first 1164 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,800 Saturday. We won't make you beg. Begging 1165 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:19,040 her. 1166 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,710 >> Thank you. 1167 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,720 for that. Um, we want to just 1168 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:43,109 go to Jill who's on 1169 00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:44,800 Can you see me? Can you hear me? 1170 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,040 >> Yes. 1171 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,880 And just introduce yourself for the 1172 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,000 record. 1173 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,520 >> Uh Jill Salyler, District 7. Wanted to 1174 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,200 start by thanking you again. All of you 1175 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,720 have done a lot of work. It's been a 1176 00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:56,880 very long hall for you. I know you've 1177 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,880 done your survey, you've done meetings, 1178 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,440 you've done input, and then you had 1179 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,359 petitions and a vote, and you have to 1180 00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:07,280 try to finangle all of that information 1181 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,440 into your recommendations. Special to 1182 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,079 Peter and Kate for really trying hard to 1183 00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:16,480 lay out some concrete 1184 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,359 um directions that you can all go to. 1185 00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:22,000 Just my own personal opinion. I got 1186 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,440 involved with this from the very 1187 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,200 beginning because I was excited about 1188 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,440 everybody being able to have a vote. I 1189 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,440 don't have any other great agenda except 1190 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,119 that I talked to so many people who say 1191 00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:34,720 they don't understand what 1192 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:36,559 representative town meeting was. They 1193 00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:38,160 didn't understand why they went to vote 1194 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,680 on town meeting day, but there wasn't 1195 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,800 really a town meeting. Um, you know, if 1196 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,720 you talk to the voters even as they went 1197 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:46,480 to vote, they were like, "What what 1198 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,440 exactly is that?" that night. So you you 1199 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,359 could look at all sorts of things as you 1200 00:50:51,359 --> 00:50:53,599 guys are saying and try and understand 1201 00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:56,480 who voted what why. 1202 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,760 But I think that's kind of the 1203 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,000 vote that that's what happens when we 1204 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,599 vote. We have to take the results that 1205 00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:05,200 are there. And Peter and Kate, you guys 1206 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,720 have done exactly that. You're looking 1207 00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:09,520 at how to make a hybrid. I personally 1208 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,559 love the in January. 1209 00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:14,160 It makes a select board move a little 1210 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,200 bit faster, but it gives all that input. 1211 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,440 And I've never been against the input 1212 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,880 nor the ideas of the civic discussion 1213 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,520 and having people get to talk directly 1214 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,160 to each other. Uh, this town really 1215 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,240 values that and that came out in the 1216 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:33,599 vote. But in the bottom, the other part 1217 00:51:33,599 --> 00:51:35,760 that everybody was saying all along too, 1218 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,559 you not everybody gets to vote if you do 1219 00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:40,720 it at open town meeting. I've been at 1220 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,160 Representative Tommy for many years. 1221 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:43,760 I've been at Opentown Meeting now last 1222 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,160 year. Um, you know, it's just better if 1223 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,800 you can have everybody vote. And I like 1224 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,880 what Tom had to say, too, that this is a 1225 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,800 time when we're losing votes and feeling 1226 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,880 like things are changing around in the 1227 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,359 country. I love for Brattleboro to stand 1228 00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:01,119 up for what I think we're kind of known 1229 00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:03,280 for, which is having the voice of the 1230 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,960 people respected and a way to put it out 1231 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,960 there. and you're coming up with that 1232 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,079 when you do the hybrid system. And to 1233 00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:15,280 me, that open town meeting in January, 1234 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,200 then follow it up, get all of that input 1235 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,040 back to the select board, let the select 1236 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,280 board change it over, put it out to 1237 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,480 Australian ballot, and that Australian 1238 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,280 ballot will give you a result. if it's 1239 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,280 rejected. 1240 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,040 Last year, Representative Town Meeting 1241 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,240 rejected it the end of March and the 1242 00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:36,319 select board went to work and managed 1243 00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:40,720 one that was passed in good time. So, I 1244 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:41,839 didn't know that it was going to be 1245 00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:43,280 done, but we proved that it could be 1246 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,040 done last year. So, this is completely 1247 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,720 possible. You put it out in January, 1248 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:50,640 have it voted on in early March, send it 1249 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,079 back to the select board, bring it back 1250 00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:54,480 out for another vote. Yeah. by 1251 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,400 Australian ballot again, which is what 1252 00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:03,829 people are asking for. And you're done. 1253 00:53:03,839 --> 00:53:04,640 » That's it. 1254 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,040 >> Thanks, Jill. 1255 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:15,510 Randy. Oh, no. I'm sorry. Yeah, Ernie. 1256 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,000 » Ernie Coplin, District 7. First of all, 1257 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,480 thanks. Um, obviously this reflects a 1258 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,640 lot of time, energy, and all that, and 1259 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,680 does reflect what the town voted on. I 1260 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,000 personally am in favor for a straight 1261 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,960 ballot. I like the first uh option 1262 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,920 number one. Number two would be okay, 1263 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,079 but I want to address something else. 1264 00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:39,520 That's your activator and your rejection 1265 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,280 of 60%. This is not a filibuster. This 1266 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,000 is um everything else that requires a 1267 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,760 vote. If you uh some people get voted on 1268 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,280 the seat board have done that by three 1269 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,000 votes, seven votes. Why is this 1270 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,359 different? I think that needs to be 50% 1271 00:53:59,359 --> 00:54:03,200 51% bounces it or approves it whichever 1272 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,200 it is. And um everything else has been 1273 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,599 said. Uh I'm a firm believer in 1274 00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:11,839 Australian ballot and I've talked to a 1275 00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:15,839 lot of people as well and I think this 1276 00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:19,920 combination of both really does reflect 1277 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,520 uh 1278 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,160 what the town wants. And again, thank 1279 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,640 you for all your time and energy and 1280 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:38,069 putting this together. 1281 00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:42,160 Hi, Randy BL at West Brattleboro. Um, 1282 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,720 I I get it. It's been a lot of work. 1283 00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:48,400 It's been a long time. It's aggravating. 1284 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:49,760 I'm sitting here and trying to put 1285 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,079 myself in a few of your places and I get 1286 00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:56,400 some of it. Some of it I don't get. Um, 1287 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,000 hey, 1288 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,079 plan one or version one is what I 1289 00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:02,400 brought up the last meeting. I agree. We 1290 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,480 don't need a filibuster activator. It 1291 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,240 should just be simple majority. It's 1292 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:07,760 Australian ballot. That's what people 1293 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,920 want. That's what people voted for. I 1294 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,839 know the reasoning. 1295 00:55:11,839 --> 00:55:14,880 You know, I I get why that's in there or 1296 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,800 why he proposed it. I don't agree with 1297 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,079 it. Um v votes aren't meant to be 1298 00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:22,079 interpreted 10 ways to Sunday. It's very 1299 00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:25,280 simple. One lost to one. Two are at the 1300 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,119 state legislature. 1301 00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:29,440 You know, here's where we are. 1302 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,520 um 1303 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,599 you were put in this position to 1304 00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:35,040 recommend something. The select board 1305 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,440 has to approve it. You know, in the end, 1306 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,200 all the citizens that want to vote are 1307 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,559 going to vote yes or no. And you know, 1308 00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:44,640 right now, if we don't have that, I'm 1309 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,079 going to be voting no. I don't want to 1310 00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,640 vote no. I want to move this forward. I 1311 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,880 want to get to where it's both of these 1312 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,880 things like like I think it can be. I 1313 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,040 think it should be. And why are we 1314 00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,960 afraid of more people voting? That 1315 00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,520 that's the thing I keep going back to. 1316 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,640 It's not a you know everybody should be 1317 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,880 able to vote. You want to go to open 1318 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,359 town meeting you can. I will. You know I 1319 00:56:07,359 --> 00:56:11,040 did last time I went to RTM got elected. 1320 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,040 But hey, everybody has to be allowed to 1321 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,480 vote. We should be afraid of this. 1322 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:15,920 There's nothing wrong with letting 1323 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,839 people vote. 1324 00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:19,760 I mean that's part of our rights in this 1325 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,520 country. Let let's give the people the 1326 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,359 right to vote. Don't be afraid of more 1327 00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:25,920 people voting. So, I hope you approve 1328 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,240 one without the 60% threshold. It's a 1329 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,200 simple majority. And I I do want to work 1330 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,680 with the town so that we don't have any, 1331 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,839 you know, problems of creating more 1332 00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:38,799 chaos or or more shortages of time for 1333 00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:40,880 staff. So, whatever we have to do to 1334 00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,400 make all that happen, hey, let let's 1335 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,040 figure it out. Um, we do have time. We 1336 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,880 can move the schedule around. Change is 1337 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,359 hard, but let's do some change. Thank 1338 00:56:49,359 --> 00:56:50,960 you. 1339 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,480 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, 1340 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,440 >> I I would just like to say that 1341 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,839 everybody seems to be saying everybody 1342 00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:01,119 voted for Australian ballot and the 1343 00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:04,640 totals are 1362 1344 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,799 for Australian ballot and 1457 for open 1345 00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:10,000 town meeting. 1346 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,599 >> But that doesn't mean anything. All it 1347 00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:14,079 means is both passed. That's all that 1348 00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:15,839 vote was meant to show 1349 00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:16,319 >> is 1350 00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,200 >> not necessally 1351 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,280 legally. That's all it is. It's a 1352 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,799 petition. It was voted yes. Period. 1353 00:57:24,799 --> 00:57:26,240 Everybody's trying to armchair 1354 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,680 quarterback and that's not the purpose 1355 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,839 of the petition. 1356 00:57:29,839 --> 00:57:32,000 But we can't talk over each other. We 1357 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,040 don't want to talk over each other. 1358 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,280 >> I'm just saying that more people voted 1359 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,839 yes for open town meeting than they 1360 00:57:37,839 --> 00:57:40,720 voted for Australian ballot. Now, I 1361 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,480 don't know what that means and I'm not 1362 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,880 trying to say what it means. I am just 1363 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,760 pointing out the vote totals. 1364 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,160 >> Okay? So, I wish people would stop 1365 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,559 saying people voted for Australian 1366 00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:54,799 ballot. Yes, they did. But they also 1367 00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:57,680 voted for open town meeting 1368 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,160 >> and that's what this does. 1369 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,920 >> Wait, I just want to make a quick 1370 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,119 correction to something Randy said, 1371 00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,119 which is that our charter does not have 1372 00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:07,760 to be pre-approved by the select board. 1373 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,440 >> It goes directly to the voters. 1374 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,280 >> So then why were we told at previous 1375 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,680 meetings by the old select board that 1376 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,839 you were like, see, can we go back and 1377 00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:18,079 do that? Cuz I thought that I There's 1378 00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:20,160 multiple ways for the for the petition 1379 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,000 to get before the voters, but this 1380 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,160 commission, we have a special procedure 1381 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,400 by where ours can go directly to the 1382 00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,559 voters, but 1383 00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:30,559 it would have gone directly to RTM, but 1384 00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:32,000 now that there's no RTM, it would go 1385 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,760 directly to an Australian ballot vote. 1386 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,280 >> Can I comment on that real quick? 1387 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,280 >> Yes, Hillary, I just have a question on 1388 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,000 that. I and I might totally 1389 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,000 misunderstand this um and I'm not an 1390 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,359 attorney, but is it the case that it's 1391 00:58:45,359 --> 00:58:46,880 sort of assumed that it has to be 1392 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,400 approved by the select board because the 1393 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,079 select board are the ones who have to 1394 00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:53,040 warn it and if they refuse to warn it, 1395 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,440 then it doesn't go to the voters. Is 1396 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,760 that And I I don't know if that's right, 1397 00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:58,640 but I just want 1398 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,119 >> I mean I I think that the select 1399 00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:03,839 probably would have to 1400 00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:05,920 I I mean, yeah, I think that they they 1401 00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,920 would have to warn the vote, but under our charter, the charter 1402 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,960 commission is allowed to put together 1403 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:14,559 its own charter proposal and put that to 1404 00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:16,559 the voters 1405 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:18,079 >> without change from the select board 1406 00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:19,599 because we were told by the old select 1407 00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:21,839 board that they could like 1408 00:59:21,839 --> 00:59:23,760 >> we were going under a different we were 1409 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:24,799 trying to go under a different method. 1410 00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:27,200 so that it would go to a townwide 1411 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,599 vote instead of to us to representative 1412 00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:30,640 town meeting. But now there's no 1413 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,319 representative town meeting. And Bob 1414 00:59:32,319 --> 00:59:34,160 couldn't be here tonight, but I he'd be 1415 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:35,520 happy to come to our next meeting and 1416 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,720 clarify that under the town attorney's 1417 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,440 interpretation of the statutes that that 1418 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,400 provision is still effective and it 1419 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,079 would just go to an Australian ballot 1420 00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:51,190 vote. Peter, 1421 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,200 » I'm interested in hearing Bob's opinion 1422 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,839 about that because that um comes as a 1423 00:59:55,839 --> 00:59:57,200 surprise to me because I thought that 1424 00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,119 the direct route to the voters was lost 1425 01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:02,799 as one of the things that happened when 1426 01:00:02,799 --> 01:00:06,720 RTM got um eliminated was that our work 1427 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,359 initially there was um under the 1428 01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:13,839 charter as it's currently written when 1429 01:00:13,839 --> 01:00:16,960 we had RTM um called for the work of of 1430 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,480 the charter review commission to be um 1431 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:26,480 voted on by the uh RTM. Um because our 1432 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,640 the place that we landed after all that 1433 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,040 consideration was to propose elimination 1434 01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,720 of RTM and switch to OTM. We had made a 1435 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:36,640 decision that we would take our proposal 1436 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,079 to the select board and ask the select 1437 01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,720 board to warn the vote of the people 1438 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,240 because it was a weird thing and it felt 1439 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,839 like a not necessarily appropriate thing 1440 01:00:43,839 --> 01:00:46,799 to go to RTM and say shall RTM be 1441 01:00:46,799 --> 01:00:48,880 discontinued. So, we were going 1442 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:50,559 voluntarily to the board. You're right 1443 01:00:50,559 --> 01:00:52,319 that you heard from individual members 1444 01:00:52,319 --> 01:00:54,799 of the prior select board that they had 1445 01:00:54,799 --> 01:00:57,359 an intention to make changes of things 1446 01:00:57,359 --> 01:00:59,359 that they didn't like where we landed. 1447 01:00:59,359 --> 01:01:04,799 Um I believe that the select board ought 1448 01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:07,200 to and I am hopeful that this select 1449 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,920 board will just view their role as a 1450 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,960 ministerial duty that this body was 1451 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,359 convened three and a half years ago to 1452 01:01:17,359 --> 01:01:19,200 do the work that we've done and we 1453 01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:20,720 paused long enough to have the vote 1454 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,400 occur. We've heard the vote. We're 1455 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,319 working through, 1456 01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:26,640 as challenging as it may be, the process 1457 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,640 of like taking that vote and bringing it 1458 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,720 into our work or deciding not to. We'll 1459 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,559 see where we land. But we're in that 1460 01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:34,079 moment now. We're hearing from you some 1461 01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:35,440 more about it. We're going to get to a 1462 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,640 place. And I think it is incumbent and 1463 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,960 we'll say so to the select board when 1464 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,119 the time comes. Incumbent upon the 1465 01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:46,799 select board to respect that um they 1466 01:01:46,799 --> 01:01:48,960 have the authority to warn a vote of the 1467 01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,559 people on this and we don't have that 1468 01:01:50,559 --> 01:01:52,640 authority. I don't think unless Bob 1469 01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,559 points out something I'm not aware of. 1470 01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:56,880 Um, but the select board shouldn't 1471 01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,160 presume to impose its own opinion on the 1472 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,720 document that has come from this, you 1473 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,799 know, long and intense process of public 1474 01:02:04,799 --> 01:02:06,720 engagement by the people who were 1475 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,799 appointed for this purpose. I think the 1476 01:02:08,799 --> 01:02:12,480 select word has a ministerial duty to 1477 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,319 take the recommendations that we 1478 01:02:14,319 --> 01:02:16,240 ultimately make and put them up for 1479 01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:17,680 better or for worse to a vote of the 1480 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,319 people. We we want the we at least me I 1481 01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:21,920 shouldn't speak for everybody. I want 1482 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:23,280 the citizens of the town of 1483 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,440 Brattleboroough to vote on our charter. 1484 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,280 I don't want five select board members 1485 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,319 who have not been engaged in it. It's 1486 01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:33,040 not I'm not putting a charter together 1487 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,559 for five select board members. I'm 1488 01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:35,839 trying to put a charter together for 1489 01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:38,480 12,000 people. I'm just going to go to 1490 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,799 Neil because he hasn't he's been waiting 1491 01:02:40,799 --> 01:02:59,990 if that's okay. Is anyone else? 1492 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,280 Did that work? 1493 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,280 >> Yes. And if you can introduce yourselves 1494 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:03,839 for the 1495 01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:04,559 >> Okay. Thank you. 1496 01:03:04,559 --> 01:03:07,359 >> public. My name is Neil Manders and I am 1497 01:03:07,359 --> 01:03:10,559 voting for the most remote input to your 1498 01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:12,640 meeting as I am calling you from the 1499 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,720 terminal station in Eugene, Oregon. 1500 01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,200 So, you know how important this is to be 1501 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,839 sitting in the terminal and attending a 1502 01:03:21,839 --> 01:03:24,720 local meeting. Um, first of all, I would 1503 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:26,400 really appreciate I really do appreciate 1504 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,160 all the work you guys have done. And 1505 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:29,599 over the last two years, I've been 1506 01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:32,160 fairly active around town trying to 1507 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,640 either get some votes for individuals or 1508 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,240 to vote for the uh one person, one vote. 1509 01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,400 And if everybody that I talked to 1510 01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,960 basically seems to be interested in a 1511 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,760 ballot vote, they want to have a vote 1512 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,760 and what's going on. And for many of 1513 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,920 them, they're either confused about what 1514 01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,359 used to be RTM or OTM. And they really 1515 01:03:53,359 --> 01:03:54,640 don't know what's going on with that, 1516 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,720 but a vote is plain and simple and clear 1517 01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,960 for them. So, I would highly urge you 1518 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:00,799 folks, I don't know how you're going to 1519 01:04:00,799 --> 01:04:02,319 do it because I haven't got all the 1520 01:04:02,319 --> 01:04:04,319 materials with me, but I know you can do 1521 01:04:04,319 --> 01:04:06,960 it that you could go with a with a pure 1522 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,480 hybrid situation and make it so that 1523 01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:12,480 people in town have this opportunity for 1524 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,079 discussion and and and uh comments and 1525 01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:18,400 then an opportunity to do a yes, no vote 1526 01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,960 on a on a total budget. So, thank you 1527 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:22,880 for listening and I hope I can get there 1528 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,920 within the next 24 hours. 1529 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,839 And who else is on Zoom? 1530 01:04:29,839 --> 01:04:30,799 >> Alissa. 1531 01:04:30,799 --> 01:04:33,039 >> Okay, good. Alissa, I only can see a 1532 01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:39,190 little box in the face. 1533 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:40,640 » Hello. Can you hear me? 1534 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:41,680 >> Yes. 1535 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,559 >> Hi. Thank you for your time. Um, Alisa 1536 01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:48,960 Royal District 9. Um, I just wanted to 1537 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:50,880 chime in and say that I am in favor of 1538 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,760 Australian ballot. Um, I don't know if 1539 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,839 any of you recall that at this past 1540 01:04:55,839 --> 01:04:57,920 Opentown meeting, 1541 01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,760 I um requested private vote, priv 1542 01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,200 private ballot voting twice. Um, and the 1543 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,920 second time I did so, um, someone 1544 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,240 actually asked the moderator if they 1545 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,880 could reverse that decision and not have 1546 01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,559 private ballot vote. So, I question 1547 01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:18,960 that. Okay. I questioned the motive 1548 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,720 behind that. Um, mostly I feel as 1549 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,520 though, frankly, it's no one's business 1550 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,839 how I vote. It's no one's business how 1551 01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:31,119 anybody in this town votes. Um, we live 1552 01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:34,079 in, um, pretty much a cancel culture. 1553 01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:37,280 And I think that, um, when people aren't 1554 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,119 voting privately and we're putting it 1555 01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:41,200 out there publicly, there's the 1556 01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,839 potential to create an us versus them 1557 01:05:43,839 --> 01:05:46,319 kind of mentality and it can really 1558 01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:48,960 perpetuate division in our community. 1559 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,720 Um, I think that um, we have a right a 1560 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,480 right to keep our votes private and I I 1561 01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,480 just think that's something that should 1562 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:00,880 be considered in all of this. Thank you 1563 01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,160 for your time. 1564 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,079 >> Thank you. 1565 01:06:04,079 --> 01:06:06,240 I'll go spoon and go back to Tom Spoon. 1566 01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,280 You haven't spoken. You get to speak. 1567 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:10,319 >> Yes. 1568 01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:14,640 >> If you can introduce yourself for the 1569 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:16,799 spoon agave. 1570 01:06:16,799 --> 01:06:18,880 Um, 1571 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,400 one change I'd like to see is the whole 1572 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,799 thing reorganized so the select board is 1573 01:06:22,799 --> 01:06:26,720 elected in November at a at the regular 1574 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,559 election day so we can count on a much 1575 01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:33,520 higher participation so people can run 1576 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:38,559 when they aren't freezing their 1577 01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:43,920 fingers off. And um, so that's one. Um I 1578 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,799 do hope um 1579 01:06:46,799 --> 01:06:48,559 I always worry when I hear talk about 1580 01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:50,240 the select board because this has 1581 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,799 nothing to do with the select board. 1582 01:06:52,799 --> 01:06:57,359 This is you are you a committee of the 1583 01:06:57,359 --> 01:07:00,240 people of this town. You you are doing 1584 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:05,520 our work and uh you have no obligations 1585 01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,200 at all to the 1586 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,760 select board. their only role was to 1587 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,480 appoint and to reappoint if there's a 1588 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,160 vacancy or something. Um I do hope 1589 01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,240 you'll examine very carefully all the 1590 01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:21,760 statements. I think that's one of the 1591 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,000 things we lack um here and just about 1592 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,400 everyone. You know, I find it hard when 1593 01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,119 I hear a statement that people can't 1594 01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:33,440 come because they don't have the time 1595 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,000 and I say to myself when you know 1596 01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,319 something is going to happen a year in 1597 01:07:38,319 --> 01:07:40,960 advance or in this case it could be two 1598 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:42,559 or three or four or five years in 1599 01:07:42,559 --> 01:07:44,720 advance because it's always the town 1600 01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:46,000 meeting has always been on a certain 1601 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,680 day. 1602 01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,280 How you could say sorry uh I know three 1603 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,280 years from now on that date I will be 1604 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,599 too busy. I won't be able to attend to 1605 01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:57,200 attend 1606 01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,200 town meeting. I also wonder when I hear 1607 01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,839 we just went through what is probably 1608 01:08:03,839 --> 01:08:05,440 arguably 1609 01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:10,720 the most impactful election since RTM 1610 01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:15,280 was created 40 what 65 years ago and 1611 01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:19,920 interestingly with all that with all the 1612 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,600 news in the play and the writing 1613 01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,440 if I'm not mistaken Hillary correctly 2% 1614 01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:30,719 % of the electorate of the electorate 1615 01:08:30,719 --> 01:08:35,279 less than the year before voted. 1616 01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:38,560 So there shouldn't be any assumptions 1617 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,679 about what the people want about what 1618 01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:45,920 their in everything requires a very 1619 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,440 thoughtful question of how do we know 1620 01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:56,000 this is true and be able to find some evidence. If 1621 01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,319 you don't have evidence, 1622 01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:02,000 you need to admit that it's just a 1623 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:03,600 feeling 1624 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,719 and be able to say, "We chose to go this 1625 01:09:06,719 --> 01:09:08,239 way or that way because it was our 1626 01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:11,440 feeling. We really don't know." So, but 1627 01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:13,120 I hope it's never that way. I hope you 1628 01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,640 can always show a good, logical, solid 1629 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:20,400 argument for everything you do. Um, 1630 01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,560 there's also a misnomer, but I 1631 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,640 understand where it comes from because 1632 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,600 in our public schools, what we are 1633 01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,679 inundated with and only inundated with 1634 01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:35,520 is that a democracy is 1635 01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,159 the right to vote. But, you know, in the 1636 01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:41,199 Soviet Union, they'd often get turnouts 1637 01:09:41,199 --> 01:09:44,080 of 90 and 95%. 1638 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,719 Seems strange. Well, actually all the 1639 01:09:46,719 --> 01:09:49,040 local city elections 1640 01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,880 and all that, they had elections for 1641 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,960 local people and as long as you were a 1642 01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:56,560 registered 1643 01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,560 member of the Communist Party, you could 1644 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,440 vote. You were expected to vote. 1645 01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:04,560 Aha, that's and there was only one 1646 01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,920 party. It was simple, but sometimes a 1647 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,600 person could run who was not a member of 1648 01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,640 the party. But there was only one party. 1649 01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,120 So I say these things to to begin to 1650 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,239 show you that there is far more to a 1651 01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:21,679 democracy than just voting. In fact, 1652 01:10:21,679 --> 01:10:25,520 voting itself can kill, if that's your 1653 01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,679 only definition, it will kill a 1654 01:10:27,679 --> 01:10:30,560 democracy if more important than 1655 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,040 anything else. And this is what I hope 1656 01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,320 you focus on. There has to be an 1657 01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,400 informed vote. It doesn't matter if a 1658 01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,920 100% 1659 01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:43,840 turn out. 1660 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,719 If that 100% doesn't have the right 1661 01:10:46,719 --> 01:10:48,400 information, 1662 01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,280 it's going to be a bad decision. 1663 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,480 And so, more than anything else that 1664 01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:58,560 preserves a democracy is an informed 1665 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,080 electorate. 1666 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,960 And so in your deliberations, I hope 1667 01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:06,400 you're always thinking, what can we do 1668 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,880 to improve the information that gets out 1669 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,679 to people? It's not clear. I think if 1670 01:11:13,679 --> 01:11:16,880 you go back and listen to all of the 1671 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,080 town meetings we have have had and 1672 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,080 listen to what people stand up and say 1673 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,040 and the statements that are made with 1674 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,960 great confidence, this is the truth. 1675 01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,640 And in fact, under closer examination, 1676 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,560 it's not. Um, but you need the time and 1677 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:44,400 the ability and the place and the desire to make sure that every 1678 01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,360 statement that you're willing to put 1679 01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,199 forward or back up or or or propose can 1680 01:11:51,199 --> 01:11:54,800 be defended logically according 1681 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:59,040 in in with a democratic structure. A a a 1682 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,719 democracy essentially is 1683 01:12:02,719 --> 01:12:05,679 rule of the people. It implies all the 1684 01:12:05,679 --> 01:12:08,560 power belong to the people. 1685 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,800 But it is also 1686 01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:15,520 from the very first democ we look at the 1687 01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,800 moment in the history of democ democracy 1688 01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,600 the magna carta when the peasants 1689 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,760 surrounded the king on running meat I 1690 01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,440 think it was or something. Um they that 1691 01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:30,239 all that was all about 1692 01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:35,840 securing the rights of people of putting 1693 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,560 limits on the rights of the king and the 1694 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,040 royalty and all of democracy 1695 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,960 is built around that premise. It exists 1696 01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:50,400 to protect and to preserve and to create 1697 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:56,719 witness the rights of people and it 1698 01:12:56,719 --> 01:13:01,920 >> but we have all I'll stop u but we have 1699 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:06,560 to also have a successful democracy 1700 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,120 and that harks back to a lot of other 1701 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,480 elements like being in control of the 1702 01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:16,080 agenda. If if you're told what to do, 1703 01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:18,400 what to talk about, it's not your 1704 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,000 meeting. 1705 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,640 If it and and all sorts of other 1706 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,199 elements and I would hope you would all 1707 01:13:25,199 --> 01:13:28,080 take the time to look through the 1708 01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,960 internet wherever you go to study and 1709 01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,400 look up what are the elements of a 1710 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,470 successful democracy. 1711 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:40,880 » Janet and then one second 1712 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,790 >> and then Tommy, you're next. 1713 01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,600 So, Chantress, um I don't know if I'm 1714 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,600 seven or nine. I don't know that it 1715 01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,280 matters somewhere. 1716 01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,120 >> Um 1717 01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,320 I'm going to say the same thing that 1718 01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,239 I've said since the very beginning of 1719 01:13:56,239 --> 01:14:00,159 this is that we are 1720 01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:03,120 hopefully opening up the system so that 1721 01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,199 shift workers and people who are very 1722 01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:07,440 busy can participate. I know somebody 1723 01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:08,800 who's not here tonight because they're a 1724 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,000 shift worker. they couldn't be here. You 1725 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,600 know, these are the people that can't 1726 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,920 like dedicate hours and hours of their 1727 01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,520 time to to all of these meetings. I I 1728 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,199 appreciate the idea of trying to 1729 01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:23,120 incorporate an open town meeting with 1730 01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,080 the Australian ballot, but I know people 1731 01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,880 who cannot be here and I and and we know 1732 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,440 them in common, by the way, um because I 1733 01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:33,600 chat with people like out in the stores. 1734 01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,640 um and they could not come to the last 1735 01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,360 open town meeting because it's it's uh 1736 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,080 they needed to keep their business open. 1737 01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,640 If we want to open up our town so that 1738 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,199 we have, you know, more people involved, 1739 01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:48,960 more people voting, more people 1740 01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,280 interested, and more people informed, 1741 01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,719 then we need to open up the vote. 1742 01:14:54,719 --> 01:14:56,800 That's the only way to do it. That's the 1743 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,040 only way is to feel like that, you know, 1744 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,120 if I vote, I'm going to I'm going to 1745 01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,040 make a difference. Um if we shut out the 1746 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,040 voters from the system, if we shut them 1747 01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:08,800 down from an open town meeting and just 1748 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,320 say, "Well, it's just the people that 1749 01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,800 have the luxury um who can plan their 1750 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,280 schedules." They're not coming. You 1751 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,040 know, I beg people to come tonight and 1752 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,040 they they cannot dedicate this kind of 1753 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,880 time. 1754 01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,880 They care and they live here in 1755 01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:26,159 Brattleboro and they want to vote. 1756 01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:28,159 Anyway, that's what I've been saying 1757 01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:29,520 since the very beginning and that's the 1758 01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:30,880 end of my statement. Thank you very 1759 01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:32,080 much. 1760 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,679 All right, Tom. Tom can be very brief. 1761 01:15:35,679 --> 01:15:36,480 >> Finish it off. 1762 01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:38,880 >> Um, 1763 01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,880 like Kate, you said something very 1764 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,400 passionately about what you would like 1765 01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,360 to see the electorate do for this the 1766 01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,120 charter commission's recommendations and 1767 01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,280 you want all voters in Brattleboro to 1768 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,199 vote for it. And I completely agree with 1769 01:15:51,199 --> 01:15:52,800 that. And I would just say we want to 1770 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:54,880 apply the same principle to the budget 1771 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,600 every year. I look around the room and I 1772 01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,280 I'm, you know, one of the older people 1773 01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,199 in town just like most of us here 1774 01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:03,360 tonight and some of us have time to do 1775 01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:04,719 these sorts of things, but there's a lot 1776 01:16:04,719 --> 01:16:06,480 of young people with families who don't. 1777 01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:08,239 They have just as much right and 1778 01:16:08,239 --> 01:16:10,159 interest in what the town is doing and 1779 01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:11,840 deciding and they have just as much 1780 01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,159 right as I do just because I can stand 1781 01:16:14,159 --> 01:16:16,080 up here and talk, but they can't. And so 1782 01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:18,320 I think that's the basic principle. I 1783 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:19,760 couldn't be at the last OTM because I 1784 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:21,840 was I was away traveling for work and 1785 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:23,679 it's I could have had on my calendar for 1786 01:16:23,679 --> 01:16:26,159 three years and it's still I got called 1787 01:16:26,159 --> 01:16:28,080 to a job that I had to do. So, I just 1788 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:29,520 don't think it's realistic to suggest 1789 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,360 that everybody can go to OTM and express 1790 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,159 their their their votes uh their their 1791 01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:36,880 right to vote. And this is not about 1792 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,040 democracy as a whole. This is about how 1793 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,199 we vote on things in town. There's a 1794 01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:42,560 number of other things that the town 1795 01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,239 does that are about democracy, but 1796 01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:45,679 that's not what this is about tonight. 1797 01:16:45,679 --> 01:16:46,480 Thank you. 1798 01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:47,840 >> Thank you. 1799 01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,199 One more time, Timothy. Then I want to 1800 01:16:49,199 --> 01:16:57,270 have a conversation right here. 1801 01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,520 » Timothy Balnath, downtown resident, 1802 01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,239 voter and taxpayer. 1803 01:17:02,239 --> 01:17:04,560 Just want to say 1804 01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,679 the great Marxist CLR James once wrote, 1805 01:17:07,679 --> 01:17:10,000 "Every cook can govern." And I want to 1806 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,000 take exception to the idea that an RTM 1807 01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,199 or an OTM with 2% of the population is 1808 01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:20,719 somehow knows better than anyone else. I 1809 01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:22,320 think each individual in this town 1810 01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:24,320 deserves to have that vote in the future 1811 01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:25,520 of the town. Thank you. 1812 01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:26,560 >> Thanks. 1813 01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:28,880 everybody. Um I think I want to 1814 01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:29,920 ask Hillary a question. 1815 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,199 >> Oh yeah, go right ahead 1816 01:17:31,199 --> 01:17:32,320 >> Hillary. Yes. 1817 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:36,640 >> What what is the average percentage of 1818 01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,840 voter turnout? Do you have any idea? 1819 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,320 >> Um, well, I have a whole spreadsheet in 1820 01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,520 my office. Um, and I think it depends. 1821 01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,760 Are you talking about town meeting? Are 1822 01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:49,840 you talking about 1823 01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:51,280 August state primary? Are you talking 1824 01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:52,880 about November general election? Are you 1825 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:53,120 talking 1826 01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,840 >> I'm talking about town meeting. 1827 01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:01,280 >> Um, I think we've seen anywhere from 1828 01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:06,159 13 to 30. Um, 1829 01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:08,400 but I don't know the average off the top 1830 01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:10,800 of my head. Um, I would really need to 1831 01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,120 if if we take a break at some point, I 1832 01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:15,360 can run downstairs and pull that up or I 1833 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,280 can run downstairs now and 1834 01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,679 >> you can let us know next time. 1835 01:18:19,679 --> 01:18:20,560 >> That's fine. 1836 01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,480 >> I can and just in case I can't be here, 1837 01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:23,520 I'll email it to Kate. 1838 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:24,400 >> Yes. Um, 1839 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,480 >> that's fine. 1840 01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:30,630 >> I was just curious. 1841 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:32,719 I know presidential elections are 1842 01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:33,840 higher. 1843 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:37,040 >> Yes. And it also depends some like if 1844 01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,239 it's if it's a presidential primary 1845 01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:41,920 year, you're going to see turnout for 1846 01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:44,400 town meeting day higher um because 1847 01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:45,760 people are turning out for the 1848 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,719 presidential primary um versus a 1849 01:18:48,719 --> 01:18:52,719 non-presidential primary. Um and you'll 1850 01:18:52,719 --> 01:18:58,159 see right some years are like um I think 1851 01:18:58,159 --> 01:19:01,040 last year like Spoon said it was 2% 1852 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,280 higher than this year. Um even though 1853 01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:05,440 both years were controversial with um 1854 01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:10,560 some hot hot button issues. Um so I'll email a spreadsheet to Kate so that 1855 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:14,239 you all can um do what you will with the 1856 01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:16,239 data. 1857 01:19:16,239 --> 01:19:19,520 >> Curiosity. It it's basically like like 1858 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,440 Hillary was saying and it's in the 60s 1859 01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:23,360 generally for some of those other events 1860 01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,760 just as a a number put out there what 1861 01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:26,640 we're talking about. 1862 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:27,360 >> No, 1863 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:28,640 >> 60ome percent 1864 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:29,920 >> for the November general 1865 01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:31,120 >> for those. Yeah. 1866 01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:32,560 >> Right. 1867 01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:36,719 >> Versus what 3,000 over 9,000. So roughly 1868 01:19:36,719 --> 01:19:39,040 30% 1869 01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,920 >> as a high number of turnout 1870 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,440 >> for the March for March. 1871 01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:46,239 >> Yeah. versus open town meeting which is 1872 01:19:46,239 --> 01:19:48,480 what 300 people. 1873 01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:50,560 >> We've had one. We don't have a very good 1874 01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:51,920 sample size for that. 1875 01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:53,679 >> Yeah, fair enough. 1876 01:19:53,679 --> 01:19:56,880 >> Okay. So, my question for for us up here 1877 01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:58,640 is 1878 01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,679 not which one of these do we want to 1879 01:20:01,679 --> 01:20:03,840 pick and what combination of what or how 1880 01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,880 do we want to maneuver all this, but do 1881 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,040 we want to 1882 01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,040 we have open town meeting in our charter 1883 01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:13,520 now. Do we want to add the Australian 1884 01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,480 ballot component? Then we can decide if 1885 01:20:16,480 --> 01:20:18,000 we decide we want to add the Australian 1886 01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,080 ballot component, then we can figure out 1887 01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,760 how to add an Australian ballot 1888 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:25,440 component. I'm happy to start and say my 1889 01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:28,080 opinion has not changed from the last 1890 01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,199 meeting that I believe we need to add an 1891 01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:34,159 Australian ballot component. 1892 01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:37,920 Um, I think we need to add it because we 1893 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,719 heard from the people in March. I also 1894 01:20:40,719 --> 01:20:43,440 think we need to add it because there's 1895 01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:46,239 two bills sitting up in the legislature. 1896 01:20:46,239 --> 01:20:48,800 One saying Brad wants open town meeting 1897 01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:50,640 and one that says Bradboro wants 1898 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,920 Australian ballot. And I don't want the 1899 01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,880 Vermont legislature making a decision 1900 01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:58,719 for the people of Bradboro on what our 1901 01:20:58,719 --> 01:21:00,480 form of town government is. So I think 1902 01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:02,159 it's for me it's important for two 1903 01:21:02,159 --> 01:21:03,760 reasons 1904 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:07,280 that we take a stab at figuring out how 1905 01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,239 we can do an Australian ballot and an 1906 01:21:10,239 --> 01:21:13,600 open town meeting. That is me. But we 1907 01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,000 all need to decide 1908 01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,640 together if we move forward with with 1909 01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:20,000 trying to figure out the Australian 1910 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,320 ballot piece. So I don't know who wants 1911 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:22,960 to go next. 1912 01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,280 >> I'm in agreement with you. I feel like 1913 01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:26,640 that would make the most people 1914 01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,310 satisfied. 1915 01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:32,080 And it's okay not to agree with me. I 1916 01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:33,440 just want I just want to put that out 1917 01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:35,600 there. I just haven't changed my mind 1918 01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:37,199 since since last week. We all are 1919 01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:38,960 individual, so I want people to feel 1920 01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:44,310 comfortable not agreeing with with me. 1921 01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:50,320 I'm happy to take a stab um at it. Um 1922 01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,070 I 1923 01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,880 am still trying to 1924 01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,280 process 1925 01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:01,920 Um, especially given some more meat on 1926 01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:08,550 the bones. I have 1927 01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,239 concerns about, and I know we're not 1928 01:22:10,239 --> 01:22:13,120 like nitpicking at this point because 1929 01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:17,040 it's not a given. Um, 1930 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,120 concerns about other concerns that 1931 01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:26,229 aren't listed. Um, 1932 01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:34,149 I'm wrestling with 1933 01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:37,120 what makes it different enough like so 1934 01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,159 I'm I'm also as we jump we're jumping 1935 01:22:40,159 --> 01:22:42,159 back into this hybrid now means 1936 01:22:42,159 --> 01:22:43,760 something different than it meant in 1937 01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:45,440 August. 1938 01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:48,080 Hybrid now means because Australian 1939 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,440 ballot has existed and would have 1940 01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:53,520 continued to existed in the draft that 1941 01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:55,520 we are putting forward. hybrid now means 1942 01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,040 something else 1943 01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:00,560 >> and that is a mental um that's why I 1944 01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:01,920 don't call it hybrid 1945 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,040 >> right it's a conceptual map change which 1946 01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:06,880 is not a problem but it does mean 1947 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,280 something different and if again the 1948 01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,080 educational portion and the bringing 1949 01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,400 folks up to speed the argument 1950 01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,440 >> in August or in the summertime is not 1951 01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:19,600 the argument today 1952 01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:30,470 Um 1953 01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:36,229 I I 1954 01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:41,920 it is the our budget is complicated and 1955 01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,080 I'm not saying anyone can't handle that. 1956 01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:45,600 I'm not saying the education can't 1957 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:50,390 happen there. 1958 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:53,040 the pass through things that have to 1959 01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:56,320 happen that could fail 1960 01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,920 and not get a recall, 1961 01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:01,920 right? Like 1962 01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,669 it is 1963 01:24:05,679 --> 01:24:09,280 there I are concerns that I think and I 1964 01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,840 think it hoot 1965 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:22,400 is good. I am wrestling with this real hard 1966 01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,080 and 1967 01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,270 I 1968 01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,520 again I don't want to nitpick the 1969 01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,080 options in front of us 1970 01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,639 to get to like a conclusion or 1971 01:24:34,639 --> 01:24:37,760 something. I don't know. It is 1972 01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,880 I do not take lightly 1973 01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:46,000 what we're hearing and the 1974 01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:55,510 consideration. 1975 01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,520 So I can't like firmly say and I hope I 1976 01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,639 can articulate myself with more words 1977 01:25:02,639 --> 01:25:04,960 soon but I don't want to be like yes I 1978 01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:06,400 like 1979 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:08,800 >> because I maybe I would consider 1980 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,360 wrestling through the details because 1981 01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:13,600 the devil's in the details but at this 1982 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,520 point we are not wrestling with the 1983 01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,280 details. 1984 01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:20,239 So if the question is just to pursue 1985 01:25:20,239 --> 01:25:23,440 this other path or do OTM 1986 01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:25,840 I am really 1987 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:27,199 >> struggling. Now let me ask you 1988 01:25:27,199 --> 01:25:29,920 something. Do you think 1989 01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:31,280 you might not know the answer to this 1990 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:34,080 but is is fleshing out would fleshing 1991 01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,159 out some more of the details help you 1992 01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:39,840 decide or not? 1993 01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,199 Like is it is it what goes to the voters 1994 01:25:43,199 --> 01:25:45,440 is of concern to you? Like what is it? 1995 01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:46,480 And you don't have to answer. I'm just 1996 01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:48,239 trying to figure out a way. How would we 1997 01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:50,800 help you figure out what you're what 1998 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,239 you're comfortable with? You know what I 1999 01:25:52,239 --> 01:25:52,960 mean? 2000 01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:55,760 >> I would of course love to hash out every 2001 01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:57,840 single one. I don't know that that's a 2002 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:03,199 great use of our time. Um, and 2003 01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:04,719 I just we I just want to figure out if 2004 01:26:04,719 --> 01:26:06,800 there's some way to like help you figure 2005 01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,560 out like what what is 2006 01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,120 that we might be able to answer or work 2007 01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:15,920 through to put to to have you go either 2008 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:17,360 way. I'm not saying to push you over to 2009 01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:18,960 going to Australian ballot. I'm saying 2010 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,239 what what would help you? 2011 01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:23,679 >> And you don't have to answer that this 2012 01:26:23,679 --> 01:26:25,520 second, but think about like what is it 2013 01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:35,510 that eventually can help you figure out 2014 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,040 Yeah, 2015 01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:38,400 something about that 2016 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,199 >> for the moment. For the moment. 2017 01:26:41,199 --> 01:26:43,440 Um, 2018 01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:46,000 some of my cards are on the table and 2019 01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,000 um, 2020 01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,000 based on some of the communication we've 2021 01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:51,920 had tonight and the conversation that we 2022 01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,080 had that led to this, you know, what we 2023 01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:55,760 had two weeks ago that led to the fact 2024 01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,880 that we even put these this information 2025 01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:00,239 together and had this conversation 2026 01:27:00,239 --> 01:27:02,639 tonight. Um, I don't think what I'm 2027 01:27:02,639 --> 01:27:03,679 about to say is going to surprise 2028 01:27:03,679 --> 01:27:05,199 anybody, but I want to say it and I want 2029 01:27:05,199 --> 01:27:08,320 to say it um particularly 2030 01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:12,950 um 2031 01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:14,880 I want to be clear to those who have 2032 01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,080 come tonight and spoken to us that um I 2033 01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:20,239 want to articulate a way in which I see 2034 01:27:20,239 --> 01:27:21,679 something really fundamentally different 2035 01:27:21,679 --> 01:27:23,040 from what most of it's kind of a theme 2036 01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:24,400 that's emerged from what most of you 2037 01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:28,560 have said and um and so I want to be 2038 01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:31,280 clear about something I see different 2039 01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:34,320 and be equally clear about um how 2040 01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,360 strongly I feel even though in the vote 2041 01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:38,719 on March 3rd it was not what I 2042 01:27:38,719 --> 01:27:40,320 personally preferred. how strongly I 2043 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,520 feel that we ought to include Australian 2044 01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:46,719 ballot and and I think we ought to 2045 01:27:46,719 --> 01:27:49,600 include it in a meaningful 2046 01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:52,159 um 2047 01:27:52,159 --> 01:27:54,560 manner with the authority of the vote of 2048 01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:56,719 the people to you know and the outcome 2049 01:27:56,719 --> 01:28:00,639 of this process um it's very important 2050 01:28:00,639 --> 01:28:04,000 that's that's a true clear unequivocal 2051 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,679 statement from me even though it's not 2052 01:28:05,679 --> 01:28:07,520 what I personally preferred I think that 2053 01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:09,760 it's based on what we've been through in 2054 01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,120 the last year in our community and based 2055 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:12,880 on the March 3rd vote, I think it's the 2056 01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,719 right thing to do. Um, 2057 01:28:16,719 --> 01:28:20,560 and what I heard, not from every one of 2058 01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,320 you, but from several of you, and it was 2059 01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:24,000 kind of embedded in the theme that I 2060 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,480 heard um from advocates for the 2061 01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:29,120 Australian ballot this evening. 2062 01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:32,550 Um, 2063 01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,400 several people said flat out, it ought 2064 01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:36,880 that the OTM ought to be advisory. 2065 01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:38,560 And I just want to be really clear. I 2066 01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,880 disagree with that. I don't think that 2067 01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,040 accurately represents that just as much 2068 01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:45,600 as some of us are struggling hard to 2069 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:46,960 come up with a solution that we don't 2070 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,199 personally love, but we think is the 2071 01:28:49,199 --> 01:28:51,440 right thing to do because of trying to 2072 01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:53,199 be responsive and respectful of the 2073 01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:56,320 outcome on March 3rd. Um, 2074 01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,320 equally I think it's disrespectful of 2075 01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:02,639 the AKA on March 3rd to say that the 2076 01:29:02,639 --> 01:29:05,840 1400 voters, the even larger majority 2077 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:10,639 who voted for OTM as compared to AB um, 2078 01:29:10,639 --> 01:29:12,719 did so because they want to have 2079 01:29:12,719 --> 01:29:15,199 conversation that will help the AB 2080 01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:16,960 voters make their choices. I don't think 2081 01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:18,239 that's what happened. I don't think 2082 01:29:18,239 --> 01:29:19,760 those are happen in the dialogue in our 2083 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,280 community. I don't think that's what the 2084 01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:23,760 votes mean. Yes, we all can interpret 2085 01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:25,360 the votes different ways, but again, I 2086 01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:28,159 think the only way to not try to 2087 01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:30,880 responsibly interpret the vote is to 2088 01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,960 throw it out and put a clearer question 2089 01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:34,560 before the people. And I I think we 2090 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,920 should not do that. And so, um, it's 2091 01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:40,639 important to me that I I hope that we do 2092 01:29:40,639 --> 01:29:44,320 land in a place where we incorporate 2093 01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:46,400 real Australian ballot authority into 2094 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,280 this system. And I hope we do it in a 2095 01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:52,719 way that retains real OTM authority as 2096 01:29:52,719 --> 01:29:55,920 well. And that's why that's what what 2097 01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:57,679 drove my recommendation, our 2098 01:29:57,679 --> 01:30:01,360 recommendation for the 2099 01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:03,600 um when the larger number of people who 2100 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:05,840 are not engaged for all kinds of good 2101 01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,239 reasons and other reasons. You know, 2102 01:30:08,239 --> 01:30:10,080 everybody has their own reasons, but 2103 01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,719 it's a fact, regardless of the reasons 2104 01:30:12,719 --> 01:30:15,600 why, it's a fact that the people who are 2105 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,480 in the OTM are engaged in a dialogue 2106 01:30:18,480 --> 01:30:20,719 with each other, hearing points of view 2107 01:30:20,719 --> 01:30:23,280 they don't agree with, participating in 2108 01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,360 ways that say, "I don't like that, but 2109 01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:26,960 if we did it this way, I could support 2110 01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:29,520 it." That that process where we as a 2111 01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:32,239 community come to something that maybe a 2112 01:30:32,239 --> 01:30:34,800 larger group of people can live with. I 2113 01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:36,880 hear loud and clear both from the 2114 01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:38,239 results of the vote and from those of 2115 01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:40,639 you who advocate strongly for AB as the 2116 01:30:40,639 --> 01:30:43,199 final word. I hear that there are people 2117 01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:47,120 who can't participate in OTM and a 2118 01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:50,000 statistically clearly larger proportion 2119 01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,800 of our community can participate in AB. 2120 01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:54,880 And so I I do think we ought to include 2121 01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:59,679 it. if we include it in a way that um 2122 01:30:59,679 --> 01:31:02,639 causes the OTM to not be meaningful 2123 01:31:02,639 --> 01:31:04,320 anymore, I think we've harmed our 2124 01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:05,840 community and I think we've disrespected 2125 01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,960 the outcome of the vote. And so um my 2126 01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:12,400 thought about the 60% threshold not as a 2127 01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,719 activator for holding an AB I don't like 2128 01:31:14,719 --> 01:31:18,000 that alternative but as a uh threshold 2129 01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,000 that has to be surpassed at the AB in 2130 01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:24,239 order to reject a budget is that we have 2131 01:31:24,239 --> 01:31:28,159 um larger participation but less engaged 2132 01:31:28,159 --> 01:31:32,560 participation at the AB than at the OTM. 2133 01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:35,840 And if we um treat them as though they 2134 01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,239 were equal, there's no incentive anymore 2135 01:31:38,239 --> 01:31:41,760 for anybody to participate in that more 2136 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,320 challenging, more engaging, more intense 2137 01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,960 process of wrestling with the stuff to 2138 01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:48,560 get to the outcome that's going to go 2139 01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:50,880 onto that ballot. 2140 01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:56,000 And I think that um it also ought to not 2141 01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,560 be the final word, right? So if there is 2142 01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:01,120 an outcome at OTM that a broad 2143 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,760 cross-section of the community rejects, 2144 01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:06,719 then the 60% threshold will be met and 2145 01:32:06,719 --> 01:32:09,600 the AB will have used its power to say, 2146 01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,679 "No, we're we don't agree with this 2147 01:32:11,679 --> 01:32:14,800 budget. Send it back. Get it reworked." 2148 01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,080 Um, I'm for that now in the fullness of 2149 01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:19,199 what we've been through for all the 2150 01:32:19,199 --> 01:32:21,520 reasons we've been talking about. Um, 2151 01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:25,440 but if OTM is only set up as a 2152 01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:28,239 opportunity to have a several hourlong 2153 01:32:28,239 --> 01:32:30,639 conversation that may or may not help 2154 01:32:30,639 --> 01:32:32,239 people make an informed vote when it 2155 01:32:32,239 --> 01:32:33,600 comes time for the Australian ballot, 2156 01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:34,880 I'm not for that. I don't think that's 2157 01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,600 what the voters reflected in the choice 2158 01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:40,480 they made on March 3rd. Um, and I think 2159 01:32:40,480 --> 01:32:42,480 it's would be bad for our local 2160 01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:46,080 governance. And so, um, so that the 2161 01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,360 bottom line is I I I hope that we can 2162 01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:54,080 land in a place where we do, u AB piece 2163 01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:56,639 in here, not anything that is like token 2164 01:32:56,639 --> 01:32:58,719 consideration of it that would be hard 2165 01:32:58,719 --> 01:33:00,159 like a like a conditional one that 2166 01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:02,480 requires people to sign petitions is 2167 01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:04,560 making it hard to actually have a real 2168 01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:06,239 AB component. I'm not for that. I think 2169 01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:09,280 it ought to be automatic and I think it 2170 01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:13,280 ought to flow from a real meaningful OTM 2171 01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:16,159 where the business of the town gets done 2172 01:33:16,159 --> 01:33:23,910 not just discussed. 2173 01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:27,600 Well, I I think that 2174 01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:31,199 we need to figure out and I I I have my 2175 01:33:31,199 --> 01:33:35,199 own ideas, but how to do some kind of 2176 01:33:35,199 --> 01:33:37,920 hybrid and I know Kate doesn't like the 2177 01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:38,719 word 2178 01:33:38,719 --> 01:33:42,320 >> combined some kind of all right combined 2179 01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:44,000 um 2180 01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:48,560 process, but I I think that 2181 01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:52,960 open town meeting was 2182 01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:57,360 almost better than RTM had been. Um I 2183 01:33:57,360 --> 01:33:59,520 mean in terms of the discussion and I 2184 01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,600 think that's very important and I think 2185 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,040 that our draft charter I mean that's 2186 01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:10,719 what it reflects. Um and I I would like 2187 01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:13,600 to see 2188 01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:17,040 us try to figure out how to include 2189 01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:20,719 Australian ballot some way. 2190 01:34:20,719 --> 01:34:23,679 And I will say, as I said last time, 2191 01:34:23,679 --> 01:34:27,360 last meeting in our draft, there's more 2192 01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,560 opportunity for Australian ballot votes 2193 01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,040 um than there had been in the previous 2194 01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:37,910 chart. 2195 01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:43,350 » What she means by that is already 2196 01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:45,840 » explain what was better about why did 2197 01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:48,800 you why did you make that statement? 2198 01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:51,440 I thought the discussion had more 2199 01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,560 different points of view than there had 2200 01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:58,560 been in the past. That's all. 2201 01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,280 >> More people speak than usual. 2202 01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,199 >> I don't know whether it was more people 2203 01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:07,840 or just more points of view or I just 2204 01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,719 thought the discussion was quite lively 2205 01:35:10,719 --> 01:35:13,679 that let me put it that way. that it was 2206 01:35:13,679 --> 01:35:15,280 >> I just want to see if Hannah wants an 2207 01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,840 opportunity to 2208 01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:20,960 >> Yeah. I mean, I think I've made my 2209 01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:24,320 position pretty clear. I I 2210 01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:26,639 I'm not 2211 01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:29,679 saying that 2212 01:35:29,679 --> 01:35:33,920 we need to stick exactly with what we 2213 01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:37,600 had last August, but I think that 2214 01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:39,520 acting like the results of that that 2215 01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:43,600 vote said anything in particular or that 2216 01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,320 we have an obligation to make everyone 2217 01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:51,920 happy is it is is not accurate. Our job 2218 01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,800 is to create a a document that allows 2219 01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:58,880 our town to function effectively. And 2220 01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:00,000 >> yeah, 2221 01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,920 >> I understand that it's not going to make 2222 01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:07,120 everyone happy, but I I also think that 2223 01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:09,040 we need to to think about what's best 2224 01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:13,120 for the town as a a municipality, not 2225 01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:16,239 just what everyone in town wants. Like 2226 01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:18,320 just because some people have very very 2227 01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:20,800 strong voices one way or the other 2228 01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:22,239 doesn't mean that that's what we need to 2229 01:36:22,239 --> 01:36:27,199 do. And I I feel like we spent a lot of 2230 01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:29,360 time considering Australian ballot, 2231 01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:32,320 considering RTM, considering OTM and we 2232 01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:36,239 came to the conclusion we came to and 2233 01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:38,400 hearing the feedback. I mean, I think 2234 01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,760 that I would be open to maybe making it 2235 01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:45,040 easier to ask for a ballot for 2236 01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:47,040 reconsideration so long as then once you 2237 01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:48,560 get to that point, it is a higher 2238 01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:51,600 threshold to overturn OTM. But I think 2239 01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,719 that these systems all make things more 2240 01:36:54,719 --> 01:36:56,320 complicated instead of less complicated 2241 01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:59,600 because you're adding an extra step. 2242 01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,320 you are either like Peter said 2243 01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,080 discounting the value of someone's vote 2244 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:05,840 at RTM 2245 01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,400 or you know some of these proposals have 2246 01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:10,000 it that it just sort of cycles back 2247 01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:11,840 between OTM and Australian ballot and I 2248 01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:13,280 don't really understand logistically how 2249 01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:14,800 that would work like what ballot are you 2250 01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:16,080 or what budget are you going back to 2251 01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:18,080 when it gets rejected 2252 01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:21,520 and and that seems to me to be taking 2253 01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:23,119 some 2254 01:37:23,119 --> 01:37:24,960 power away from the select board to 2255 01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:28,639 propose a budget and so I don't I just 2256 01:37:28,639 --> 01:37:31,040 don't see how these 2257 01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:34,560 are better for the town just because 2258 01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:37,520 there are a couple loud voices really 2259 01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:39,679 pushing for a certain thing to be 2260 01:37:39,679 --> 01:37:45,840 included. And I I think that, you know, to Joyy's, I 2261 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:46,800 don't think these are fleshed out 2262 01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:49,920 enough. I think there's a lot of 2263 01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,000 stuff that would need to to be looked at 2264 01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:55,040 to see if these are even possible. I 2265 01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,040 don't I I I just think that there 2266 01:37:57,040 --> 01:38:00,800 there's too me much uncertainty here and 2267 01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,119 we spent so much time looking at 2268 01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:05,280 everything already and I don't think we 2269 01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:07,760 need to reinvent the wheel and and try 2270 01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:10,080 and and jam something in that we looked 2271 01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:12,800 at and said no we don't think that's 2272 01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,239 what's best and we came up with what I 2273 01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:18,159 stand by was a good proposal and I think 2274 01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:22,400 there are ways that we can tweak it and make adjustments based on what's 2275 01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:26,080 happened but I don't think that we can 2276 01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:27,840 say first of all that this is what the 2277 01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:30,719 people want or or that what the results 2278 01:38:30,719 --> 01:38:32,480 of those votes mean that we have to do 2279 01:38:32,480 --> 01:38:34,400 that 2280 01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:38,080 >> and and so I would really discourage us 2281 01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:41,669 from 2282 01:38:41,679 --> 01:38:44,080 » you guys we all we all have a right to 2283 01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:45,360 our opinion so 2284 01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,199 >> and this is actually our committee's 2285 01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:48,800 work and and the public is allowed to 2286 01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,800 come here and comment but we're we're 2287 01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,750 the members of this commission 2288 01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:56,560 And so I just really really really want 2289 01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:01,520 to to to advocate for not 2290 01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:04,000 trying to to to turn this into some sort 2291 01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,080 of like Frankenstein's monster of like 2292 01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:08,480 trying to fit all of these different 2293 01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:10,560 ideas into something when it what we 2294 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:13,679 really need to be doing is making a good 2295 01:39:13,679 --> 01:39:15,360 solid foundational document for our 2296 01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:21,350 town, which I think we've done. 2297 01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:26,870 Tom. 2298 01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:28,639 » So, um I think I'm going to take issue 2299 01:39:28,639 --> 01:39:30,080 with what Peter was saying about the 2300 01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:31,440 vote. First of all, it was not rank 2301 01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:32,800 choice voting, so it doesn't matter how 2302 01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,400 many votes happened for one or the 2303 01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:37,520 other. Second of all, the the um ballot 2304 01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,840 on open town meeting was non-specific. 2305 01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:41,360 It didn't say I want to open town 2306 01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:43,040 meeting so I can vote up or down on the 2307 01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:45,440 budget. The Australian ballot ballot 2308 01:39:45,440 --> 01:39:47,360 did. And so, I think there's a big 2309 01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:49,280 difference there. Um, I also think that 2310 01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:51,920 this idea that deliberation happens one 2311 01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:55,679 day a year is disrespectful to all the 2312 01:39:55,679 --> 01:39:57,199 other conversations that happen all year 2313 01:39:57,199 --> 01:39:59,840 long, select board meetings, meetings in 2314 01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:02,239 a coffee shop, letters to the editor. 2315 01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:03,760 So, I think we need to be realistic 2316 01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:05,360 about the way that the town really 2317 01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:07,760 decides things and not make it seem like 2318 01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:09,679 the only place to decide things is one 2319 01:40:09,679 --> 01:40:11,280 day a year. 2320 01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:14,000 Um, Hannah, I think I agreed with 2321 01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:15,840 everything you were saying about having 2322 01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:18,159 a good system in place until you said 2323 01:40:18,159 --> 01:40:19,440 what the commission recommended because 2324 01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:20,639 I don't agree with what the commission 2325 01:40:20,639 --> 01:40:22,480 recommended. 2326 01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:29,270 >> Thank you. 2327 01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:32,870 » Okay. 2328 01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:34,639 I just want to not be misunderstood, so 2329 01:40:34,639 --> 01:40:36,000 I apologize that I'm going to respond 2330 01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:37,360 directly to that, but you responded 2331 01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:41,199 directly to me. Um, 2332 01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:44,320 I totally um accept and respect that we 2333 01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:45,600 might land in different places. I think 2334 01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:46,719 we are going to land in different 2335 01:40:46,719 --> 01:40:48,560 places. I know we've come from different 2336 01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:50,080 perspectives into the conversation 2337 01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:56,870 tonight around this issue. Um, 2338 01:40:56,880 --> 01:40:59,840 I think all of those other times when 2339 01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:02,159 members of the community are engaged 2340 01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:03,840 with one another around the welfare of 2341 01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:06,159 the community are important 2342 01:41:06,159 --> 01:41:09,360 >> and informative to where each of us 2343 01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:12,000 individually comes to when it's time to 2344 01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:13,920 cast a ballot. I think all of that's 2345 01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:15,600 true. I wouldn't quibble with anything 2346 01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:17,600 that you said. And I think it's not just 2347 01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,560 true, it's important. And it's different 2348 01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:22,880 than being in a room where the people in 2349 01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:25,360 the room that day through an official 2350 01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:28,000 governmental process are empowered to 2351 01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,719 actually make decisions together and to 2352 01:41:30,719 --> 01:41:33,040 amend the questions that have been 2353 01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:35,440 placed before us by the smaller number 2354 01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:36,800 of people who are in positions of 2355 01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:38,560 authority in our community. And I think 2356 01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:42,000 that moment is important. It's way not 2357 01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:44,000 the only important moment of the year, 2358 01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:45,840 but I think it's really important. Can I 2359 01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:47,520 can you just so the people that you 2360 01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,119 mentioned the select board they're 2361 01:41:49,119 --> 01:41:51,679 elected by ballot of the by by the 2362 01:41:51,679 --> 01:41:54,159 public of town it's different than than 2363 01:41:54,159 --> 01:41:55,920 sitting in it going to an open town 2364 01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:57,840 meeting and I agree I think those sort 2365 01:41:57,840 --> 01:41:59,679 of deliberations are important but they 2366 01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:01,360 don't necessarily need to be the thing 2367 01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:03,600 that makes the decisions for the town. 2368 01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:05,520 That's all I'm saying. 2369 01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,679 >> Y 2370 01:42:07,679 --> 01:42:11,520 and I think that's why a combined system 2371 01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:14,960 is important. Um, 2372 01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:21,910 so 2373 01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:27,920 we do have at least four of us who are 2374 01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:29,440 willing 2375 01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:32,159 or interested in considering Australian 2376 01:42:32,159 --> 01:42:33,840 moving Australian ballot or at least 2377 01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:35,920 considering we didn't vote to go put 2378 01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:37,360 Australian ballot. I want to make sure 2379 01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:39,840 nobody's misinterpreting what I'm 2380 01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:42,960 saying, but into maybe discussing 2381 01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:48,560 further how we do the combined system. 2382 01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:53,590 Um, 2383 01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,639 and Hannah's right, it's not totally 2384 01:42:56,639 --> 01:42:58,960 fleshed out because literally Peter and 2385 01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:00,880 I were talking to a lot of people and 2386 01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,600 saying here's the way to go. 2387 01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:05,520 Um, one of the things that we haven't 2388 01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:07,199 done, 2389 01:43:07,199 --> 01:43:12,960 um, is talked to like anyone 2390 01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:15,440 from 2391 01:43:15,440 --> 01:43:18,560 whether they're on the select board or 2392 01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:22,320 the town manager's office about whether 2393 01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,040 January is even an option. I mean, we 2394 01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:27,119 Peter was a former town manager. I'm a 2395 01:43:27,119 --> 01:43:29,600 former select board member. 2396 01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,560 you know whether 2397 01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:34,400 they can get a budget done by the end of 2398 01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:36,159 December. 2399 01:43:36,159 --> 01:43:39,840 My experience is no. That's just my my 2400 01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:41,679 experience. But we have not asked 2401 01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:47,440 anybody. Um you know so that's a I mean 2402 01:43:47,440 --> 01:43:50,080 that's an option that needs to be 2403 01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:52,560 explored. If we're serious about moving 2404 01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:54,239 forward, we can have a serious 2405 01:43:54,239 --> 01:43:56,000 discussion. I mean one of the things is 2406 01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:57,920 we don't get our town audit back until 2407 01:43:57,920 --> 01:43:58,639 December. 2408 01:43:58,639 --> 01:44:01,840 >> Yeah. and we don't have, you know, 2409 01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:04,800 numbers, but you know, 2410 01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:08,480 I if if you want, 2411 01:44:08,480 --> 01:44:10,960 you know, and I think I can tell you 2412 01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:12,480 right now because obviously Peter and I 2413 01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:15,600 produced this document together, I agree 2414 01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:18,400 really strongly with him that open town 2415 01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:21,360 meeting should vote on the budget and 2416 01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:23,840 pass that budget on to Australian 2417 01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:26,400 ballot. I think we've done either 2418 01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:27,840 representative town meeting or now an 2419 01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:29,840 open town meeting now for 60 whatever 2420 01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:32,560 years and it's been really actually 2421 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,480 quite effective and then you have the 2422 01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:37,280 people vote on that. Um that's where I'm 2423 01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:40,800 coming down on that. Um 2424 01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,679 so 2425 01:44:43,679 --> 01:44:45,040 but that doesn't mean everybody else has 2426 01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:46,639 to. I'm just struggling now to figure 2427 01:44:46,639 --> 01:44:50,159 out how we can you know if you want us 2428 01:44:50,159 --> 01:44:52,159 to flush some of this out talk to some 2429 01:44:52,159 --> 01:44:54,960 more people. Um, you know, are there 2430 01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:56,159 because I know Joyy's still trying to 2431 01:44:56,159 --> 01:44:57,520 you're you're trying to figure out which 2432 01:44:57,520 --> 01:44:58,960 way you want to even go. So, I'm trying 2433 01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:00,159 to figure out is there something that 2434 01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:04,400 can help you as we move this forward as 2435 01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,360 we try to figure out if we can land at a 2436 01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:10,400 place I mean we have a willingness by at 2437 01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,360 least four of us to try to land at a 2438 01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:15,440 place where Australian ballot can be 2439 01:45:15,440 --> 01:45:18,800 part of the process. And if you want, 2440 01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:20,239 you know, Peter and I to do some more 2441 01:45:20,239 --> 01:45:22,400 work between now and November 4 or 2442 01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:23,679 November 2443 01:45:23,679 --> 01:45:27,199 >> June June. Oh my god. November 4th. June 2444 01:45:27,199 --> 01:45:27,600 4th. 2445 01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:28,400 >> It's just next week. 2446 01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:30,000 >> Yeah, just next week. 2447 01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:32,639 >> And some of it is talking through 2448 01:45:32,639 --> 01:45:34,080 because we have a list of some legal 2449 01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:38,960 issues that we have to see how it can 2450 01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:42,000 work. We have that list already. 2451 01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:44,480 >> I don't want to interrupt you. I want to 2452 01:45:44,480 --> 01:45:46,080 >> add something and pose a question once 2453 01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:47,119 you are done talking. 2454 01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:49,119 >> No, I I think that's the next thing is 2455 01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:50,800 where do we where do we take this since 2456 01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:53,679 we do have willingness 2457 01:45:53,679 --> 01:45:57,600 from four of us to at the very least see 2458 01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,080 how we can make a combined system. You 2459 01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:01,920 know, we we've taken a step from last 2460 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:04,480 week. We've we've moved a little bit 2461 01:46:04,480 --> 01:46:07,119 from last last week the last meeting 2462 01:46:07,119 --> 01:46:08,800 where we weren't even sure we wanted to 2463 01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:10,400 even take the next step to go to a 2464 01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:12,480 combined system. So Peter and I brought 2465 01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:14,960 this to you folks and now we've moved a 2466 01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:17,920 step on Yeah, let's there is a 2467 01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:19,440 willingness to consider it and I'm not 2468 01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:22,320 taking this as anybody 2469 01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:24,560 is supporting it. I'm just saying 2470 01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:28,480 >> no I think we need to think about it and 2471 01:46:28,480 --> 01:46:31,360 maybe flesh out some things. I mean, I 2472 01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:34,480 have a whole lot of questions about 2473 01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:37,199 various alternatives, some of which are 2474 01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:40,080 just very practical like 2475 01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:42,880 >> um basketball season 2476 01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:44,480 >> and and some of the things would be 2477 01:46:44,480 --> 01:46:47,040 really helpful if we could leave tonight 2478 01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:48,560 with what this and not come back next 2479 01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:50,159 week and you tell us this stuff. 2480 01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:52,960 >> Yeah. So, that's um exactly the point I 2481 01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:54,800 was going to make. I'm I'm worried. I' I 2482 01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:59,679 would like to further consider this um 2483 01:46:59,679 --> 01:47:01,679 not this exactly. I would like to 2484 01:47:01,679 --> 01:47:03,280 further consider the topic and I would 2485 01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,320 like to consider it with more substance 2486 01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:10,239 in front of us around the potential ways 2487 01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:12,639 to make this happen. 2488 01:47:12,639 --> 01:47:16,159 Um and I think we set ourselves up for 2489 01:47:16,159 --> 01:47:17,920 failure if we try to do that next week. 2490 01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:20,480 a week from tonight, what leaves us like 2491 01:47:20,480 --> 01:47:22,639 the next couple of days to try to 2492 01:47:22,639 --> 01:47:24,000 actually do anything different with 2493 01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:25,360 this. And 2494 01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:27,199 >> um I think that we do need to have some 2495 01:47:27,199 --> 01:47:28,960 communication with people inside town 2496 01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:31,840 government. I think we um also need to 2497 01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:33,360 have some communication with people at 2498 01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:35,280 the school district around the 2499 01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:36,719 possibility of like what can they 2500 01:47:36,719 --> 01:47:38,719 accommodate? If they know a year ahead 2501 01:47:38,719 --> 01:47:40,560 of time, for instance, of when we're 2502 01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:42,560 going to be wanting to use the gym, 2503 01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:44,320 could they accommodate it by like not 2504 01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:47,119 having a home game that weekend? So, I I 2505 01:47:47,119 --> 01:47:48,480 see you shaking your head, but I'd like 2506 01:47:48,480 --> 01:47:48,800 to 2507 01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:50,480 >> I've just had those conversations with 2508 01:47:50,480 --> 01:47:51,360 them. Yeah. 2509 01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,520 >> Um and they were very clear. 2510 01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:56,880 >> I understand. And 2511 01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,920 >> and that fellow reports to somebody who reports to the 2512 01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:02,800 board. So, I I respect where we've 2513 01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:04,639 landed. I don't I don't I'm not 2514 01:48:04,639 --> 01:48:06,239 quibbling that you've got a clear 2515 01:48:06,239 --> 01:48:09,280 answer. And I think that if we're as a 2516 01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:11,040 community trying to make something very 2517 01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,199 challenging and complicated happen, 2518 01:48:13,199 --> 01:48:14,960 maybe the school can be more of a 2519 01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:18,560 partner in this. And if we keep getting 2520 01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:20,400 a no out of the schools, then maybe they 2521 01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:21,760 can't be more of a partner in this and 2522 01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:24,800 we'll end up um needing to think about 2523 01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:28,000 either rejecting an an idea because of 2524 01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:30,320 that or looking at a different place to 2525 01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:31,520 hold the meeting. I don't want to even 2526 01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:32,719 get into speculating about all that 2527 01:48:32,719 --> 01:48:33,840 tonight. What I'm saying is I think 2528 01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:35,920 there's there's more questions to be 2529 01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:37,840 asked on that point because that's a 2530 01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:39,600 pretty fundamental aspect of the 2531 01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:42,400 possibility of going to January. Um and 2532 01:48:42,400 --> 01:48:44,639 the impact to town government in the 2533 01:48:44,639 --> 01:48:46,239 preparation of the budget is a very 2534 01:48:46,239 --> 01:48:50,239 significant um impact to to going to 2535 01:48:50,239 --> 01:48:53,600 what otherwise if we're going to include 2536 01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:57,830 a um 2537 01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,719 meaningful authoritative AB vote on the 2538 01:49:00,719 --> 01:49:04,880 budget. Um, having it align with tummy, 2539 01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:06,560 have it be the one time instead of 2540 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,480 having to go to the polls twice each 2541 01:49:08,480 --> 01:49:10,639 spring makes sense to me. I'd like to 2542 01:49:10,639 --> 01:49:12,239 try harder to make that particular 2543 01:49:12,239 --> 01:49:13,760 option work if there's a way to make it 2544 01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:15,360 work. If there isn't a way to make it 2545 01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:17,440 work, then to to work in the more 2546 01:49:17,440 --> 01:49:21,040 complicated array of um multiple steps 2547 01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:23,760 where it does become 2548 01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:25,840 there's other factors to consider. But 2549 01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:28,880 my point is we need a little time if if 2550 01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:31,600 there's an willingness and an interest 2551 01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:34,400 on this panel to dig deeper into this 2552 01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:35,760 stuff and to have another discussion 2553 01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:37,679 another night when we've got more 2554 01:49:37,679 --> 01:49:39,600 definitive information in front of us. 2555 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:41,040 We need some time to put that more 2556 01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:43,280 definitive information together. So, I 2557 01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:44,560 don't think we ought to try to do this a 2558 01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:45,679 week from tonight. I think we ought to 2559 01:49:45,679 --> 01:49:48,400 do it hopefully at the next meeting 2560 01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:49,679 after that, which is a couple of weeks 2561 01:49:49,679 --> 01:49:53,360 on from there. Um, I would assume that 2562 01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:55,600 in a two week or so period, we ought to 2563 01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:56,800 be able to pull this stuff together so 2564 01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:58,159 that we'd be ready for 3 weeks from 2565 01:49:58,159 --> 01:49:59,840 tonight. 2566 01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,560 >> So, that's I just wanted to suggest that 2567 01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:04,239 as we continue to decide how we want to 2568 01:50:04,239 --> 01:50:05,840 proceed because I think it'd be a big 2569 01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:07,280 mistake to try to continue this 2570 01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:09,679 discussion next week and be not much 2571 01:50:09,679 --> 01:50:12,400 more informed than we are today. But it 2572 01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:16,800 would also be really helpful to know 2573 01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:20,080 what everybody's looking for. 2574 01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:22,159 >> I can send you a list of my question. I 2575 01:50:22,159 --> 01:50:24,000 was going to do that anyway. 2576 01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:31,189 >> Send you a list of my questions. 2577 01:50:31,199 --> 01:50:33,679 » We we should 2578 01:50:33,679 --> 01:50:35,600 communicate here. Maybe. How about this? 2579 01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:37,040 Because we you shouldn't 2580 01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:39,679 send us those questions because of the 2581 01:50:39,679 --> 01:50:41,199 open meetings law. So, how about how 2582 01:50:41,199 --> 01:50:42,639 about we do this instead? How about a 2583 01:50:42,639 --> 01:50:44,880 week from tonight? We have some more 2584 01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:47,679 discussion about this for the purpose of 2585 01:50:47,679 --> 01:50:49,040 naming 2586 01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:52,480 >> gaps, naming things you all need to see 2587 01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:55,040 for us to have the 2588 01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:57,520 more complete conversation that we need 2589 01:50:57,520 --> 01:51:01,520 to have to get to a place. And then 2590 01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:03,679 prior to the the next meeting after 2591 01:51:03,679 --> 01:51:06,560 that, we try to be responsive to those 2592 01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:08,560 >> which is the 18th. 2593 01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:09,040 >> Hello. 2594 01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:10,400 >> Which is the 18th. 2595 01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:14,560 So, um, if it's helpful, um, for you 2596 01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:16,159 all, I have a list of things that I 2597 01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:17,840 think would be helpful for you all to 2598 01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:19,440 consider so that you can think about 2599 01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:21,199 going into 2600 01:51:21,199 --> 01:51:22,239 >> next week. Yes. 2601 01:51:22,239 --> 01:51:26,400 >> Um, so, um, I think the school, right, 2602 01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:28,400 is a big question. We started looking at 2603 01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:30,800 the latches. That's come up a bunch. We 2604 01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:32,880 started looking at at some concerns with 2605 01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:34,800 that. We're trying to reach out again to 2606 01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:38,000 restart that conversation, but venue um 2607 01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:39,760 and with the school district recognizing 2608 01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:41,760 that they are a unified school district. 2609 01:51:41,760 --> 01:51:43,199 So they don't just report to the 2610 01:51:43,199 --> 01:51:45,280 Brattleboro voters. It's not just Brad 2611 01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:46,560 taxpayers. 2612 01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:49,199 >> Um so 2613 01:51:49,199 --> 01:51:53,199 timeline of town report, um the legal 2614 01:51:53,199 --> 01:51:56,800 questions, the budget timeline, 2615 01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:59,599 um and just resources and budgets in 2616 01:51:59,599 --> 01:52:01,040 terms of pulling all of these things 2617 01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,920 off. And so I think that some people 2618 01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:06,000 that would be important for you all to 2619 01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,880 connect with and talk to um would 2620 01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:12,480 certainly be um the town attorney 2621 01:52:12,480 --> 01:52:15,679 um members of the select board um the 2622 01:52:15,679 --> 01:52:17,920 communications coordinator specifically 2623 01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:20,800 in terms of um the timeline of pulling 2624 01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:24,000 off the town report. Um, I would say 2625 01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:26,080 this school, um, whether it's the 2626 01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:29,040 superintendent or the principal or 2627 01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:31,440 whoever you all feel, whatever level you 2628 01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:34,639 feel you need to go to, um, I know that 2629 01:52:34,639 --> 01:52:36,560 we're absent an official finance 2630 01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:40,000 director. Um, but whoever is playing 2631 01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:42,239 that role, whether it's Bonnie or Sally 2632 01:52:42,239 --> 01:52:44,320 or some combination, 2633 01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:46,880 um, and the town manager's office. Yeah, 2634 01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:49,040 >> I think those are key players that you 2635 01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:51,440 really need to get feedback from. I 2636 01:52:51,440 --> 01:52:53,280 think you're hearing from a select group 2637 01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:57,119 of the public. Um, and we we have 2638 01:52:57,119 --> 01:53:00,159 results of a ballot that we can 2639 01:53:00,159 --> 01:53:03,199 interpret in whatever way we want. Um, 2640 01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:05,040 y'all have talked to me. I'm happy to 2641 01:53:05,040 --> 01:53:06,800 continue that conversation from my 2642 01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:08,320 perspective and the logistics and 2643 01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:11,280 timeline. Um, and so I think that I 2644 01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:12,880 would be a great resource, but I think 2645 01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:14,480 that there's a lot of other people that 2646 01:53:14,480 --> 01:53:16,639 need to be brought into the conversation 2647 01:53:16,639 --> 01:53:18,880 that can offer different perspectives 2648 01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:22,159 and expertise. um on this discussion. 2649 01:53:22,159 --> 01:53:22,560 >> Yeah. 2650 01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:26,800 >> And I agree like the January one is 2651 01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:28,320 totally different than what we're doing 2652 01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:29,040 now, 2653 01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:29,679 >> right? 2654 01:53:29,679 --> 01:53:31,920 >> But the March one is also I mean you've 2655 01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:33,599 got to think about you talked about 2656 01:53:33,599 --> 01:53:36,320 timeline, but also budget and resources. 2657 01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:39,119 Not just in terms of another 2658 01:53:39,119 --> 01:53:41,840 >> ballot, but also in terms of what my 2659 01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:44,159 staff can handle and do do we need to 2660 01:53:44,159 --> 01:53:45,760 ask the select board to add another 2661 01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:47,760 staff member to pull this off 2662 01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:49,840 >> um in the town clerk's office. Yeah. 2663 01:53:49,840 --> 01:53:52,400 >> So, those are considerations beyond just 2664 01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:54,400 pulling off the election, right? 2665 01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:56,880 >> Well, and part of part of it Yeah. Yeah. 2666 01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:58,960 I won't I won't I won't make my comment 2667 01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:02,080 now. I'll wait. So, one of one of my 2668 01:54:02,080 --> 01:54:05,440 questions um 2669 01:54:05,440 --> 01:54:08,560 bes besides the ones that 2670 01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:10,239 some of them were were Hillary's 2671 01:54:10,239 --> 01:54:14,800 questions, but I don't understand what 2672 01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:18,480 a reduced overhead election 2673 01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:21,360 is. Can somebody explain that to 2674 01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:23,199 >> I can explain what we meant by that and 2675 01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:24,480 Hillary's going to have an opinion about 2676 01:54:24,480 --> 01:54:27,280 it. And so what we wanted to do was 2677 01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:30,480 float a possibility in the consideration 2678 01:54:30,480 --> 01:54:32,639 here subject to lots of details needing 2679 01:54:32,639 --> 01:54:35,360 to be worked out. But um there have been 2680 01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:36,800 times in the past when the town held 2681 01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,840 elections in these two rooms and holding 2682 01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:42,560 a an election that has a more complex 2683 01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:44,239 ballot attached to it when there's three 2684 01:54:44,239 --> 01:54:46,719 districts that was very complicated to 2685 01:54:46,719 --> 01:54:48,800 do here. Problematic I would even say 2686 01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:50,639 and uh we've got a great system set up 2687 01:54:50,639 --> 01:54:52,320 that we do it time and again now over at 2688 01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:54,480 the Legion. And the question that we're 2689 01:54:54,480 --> 01:55:00,960 raising is if if it was AB otm AB and so 2690 01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:04,080 there's a second AB each spring could 2691 01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:06,080 that second one where it's going to be 2692 01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:07,920 the town voters coming out to vote on 2693 01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:09,119 the budget it's going to be a very 2694 01:55:09,119 --> 01:55:12,000 simple ballot. Could that election be 2695 01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:14,719 held in these two rooms with a smaller 2696 01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:16,400 logistical challenge and a smaller group 2697 01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:18,719 of people having to manage it? 2698 01:55:18,719 --> 01:55:22,480 So I would say that yes um that is 2699 01:55:22,480 --> 01:55:24,400 certainly a consideration and I would 2700 01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:27,119 say in terms of the cost of that we 2701 01:55:27,119 --> 01:55:28,800 don't pay anything to hold the elections 2702 01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:30,800 at the region. That's part of but we 2703 01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:33,679 have a 10-year with them um to hold 2704 01:55:33,679 --> 01:55:35,599 every certainly regularly scheduled 2705 01:55:35,599 --> 01:55:38,960 election um at at their space and that 2706 01:55:38,960 --> 01:55:40,719 helps them with their community 2707 01:55:40,719 --> 01:55:44,960 involvement and 503 status. Um and so 2708 01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:47,840 there's no charge for that. The savings 2709 01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:50,480 might be in terms of how many people do 2710 01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:52,480 we need to hire. 2711 01:55:52,480 --> 01:55:54,800 >> We pay minimum wage, so it would be a 2712 01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:58,320 small savings. It's not, but we're also 2713 01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:00,239 closing our office, so any revenue we'd 2714 01:56:00,239 --> 01:56:03,119 be bringing in is lost. Um, and so there 2715 01:56:03,119 --> 01:56:05,599 are pros and cons to that. The other 2716 01:56:05,599 --> 01:56:08,320 question becomes, are we using a 2717 01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:11,280 tabulator or are we hand counting? um we 2718 01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:13,760 save money by not using a tabulator, but 2719 01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:16,320 if there's 6,000 people that show up, we 2720 01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:18,320 need to hire enough counters to be here 2721 01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:20,880 and physically be counting. And so I 2722 01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:24,320 don't know yet what what that cost 2723 01:56:24,320 --> 01:56:27,840 savings or or loss is because we don't 2724 01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:29,920 have anything to go off of. 2725 01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:34,159 >> Um and so might it save us money by 2726 01:56:34,159 --> 01:56:36,560 holding it here? Yeah, maybe. But it's 2727 01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:38,159 not going to be a significant amount 2728 01:56:38,159 --> 01:56:43,199 because we're not paying rent. we're not paying a fee to use the Legion 2729 01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:45,599 and so it might be some staff savings, 2730 01:56:45,599 --> 01:56:48,480 there might be lost revenue. Um I I 2731 01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:51,040 don't know that I don't know if that's a 2732 01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:52,960 significant savings or not. 2733 01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:56,719 >> So would the cost of using the 2734 01:56:56,719 --> 01:57:00,950 tabulators 2735 01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:04,560 be more than hiring some people to 2736 01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:05,280 count? You know, 2737 01:57:05,280 --> 01:57:06,560 >> you don't know how many people are going 2738 01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:07,599 to show up yet. 2739 01:57:07,599 --> 01:57:09,119 >> And so it's hard to say. It might take 2740 01:57:09,119 --> 01:57:11,679 us three years to know how many people 2741 01:57:11,679 --> 01:57:13,760 we actually need to hire to do that or 2742 01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:17,440 how long it's going to take us. Um, and 2743 01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:20,320 doing a tabulator for one yes no 2744 01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:22,880 question might be less money because 2745 01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:25,360 it's it's programming for one district. 2746 01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:27,119 It's fewer words than our regular 2747 01:57:27,119 --> 01:57:29,920 ballot. I just I don't have the answers 2748 01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:32,000 to those questions at this moment in 2749 01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:32,800 time. Okay. 2750 01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:37,589 >> Um, 2751 01:57:37,599 --> 01:57:38,960 » was there other things on your list 2752 01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:40,239 final? 2753 01:57:40,239 --> 01:57:45,510 >> You don't have to have them all now, but 2754 01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:48,239 » Oh, that those were my big questions. 2755 01:57:48,239 --> 01:57:50,960 >> Okay. So, our plan for next week would 2756 01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:53,920 be for everybody to come with your 2757 01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:55,599 questions so that we can have time to 2758 01:57:55,599 --> 01:57:58,400 get them answered by the 18th. 2759 01:57:58,400 --> 01:58:00,639 >> We would start working on this sooner. 2760 01:58:00,639 --> 01:58:01,440 Yes, we 2761 01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:03,679 >> and we would hear whatever you have to 2762 01:58:03,679 --> 01:58:05,599 say next week and make sure that we also 2763 01:58:05,599 --> 01:58:06,560 cover that to 2764 01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:07,520 >> Yeah. 2765 01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:10,159 >> bring back as complete a 2766 01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:11,920 >> set of answers as possible for the 2767 01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:12,560 >> because 2768 01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:12,960 >> 18. 2769 01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:15,040 >> Yeah. Because we are we already have a 2770 01:58:15,040 --> 01:58:17,920 list of questions that we have put 2771 01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:19,360 together when we were putting this 2772 01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:20,000 together. 2773 01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:21,119 >> Yeah, 2774 01:58:21,119 --> 01:58:22,719 >> there are lots of questions. 2775 01:58:22,719 --> 01:58:25,119 >> Yeah, 2776 01:58:25,119 --> 01:58:28,800 I may just ask one simple question. is 2777 01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:31,520 Timothy Bellnap, uh, District 9 2778 01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:34,880 homeowner, voter, taxpayer. Just one 2779 01:58:34,880 --> 01:58:37,520 quick question regarding 2780 01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:40,480 how would a January 2781 01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:43,840 OTM followed by a March Australian 2782 01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:46,719 ballot compare price-wise to what we 2783 01:58:46,719 --> 01:58:49,199 just done this last spring? To me, I 2784 01:58:49,199 --> 01:58:51,599 don't see any difference there. 2785 01:58:51,599 --> 01:58:53,520 >> Right. And I mean, that's one of the 2786 01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:58,480 considerations. I mean, that's what's we actually wrote that down. Yeah. that 2787 01:58:58,480 --> 01:59:01,040 it's already in this embedded in the 2788 01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:02,480 system. 2789 01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:04,560 >> So, we believe that it'll be the least 2790 01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:07,360 expensive of any of the options because 2791 01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:09,920 it doesn't include an extra step. 2792 01:59:09,920 --> 01:59:10,159 >> Yeah. 2793 01:59:10,159 --> 01:59:11,840 >> Right. I'm just speaking to that the 2794 01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:13,920 simple ballot here is kind of taking us 2795 01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:16,159 down the garden path of option three or 2796 01:59:16,159 --> 01:59:19,840 four when really option one is like I 2797 01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:21,440 would say there's probably no price 2798 01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:22,960 difference there, but I would defer to 2799 01:59:22,960 --> 01:59:23,679 Hillary on that. 2800 01:59:23,679 --> 01:59:24,719 >> Right. But there are logistical 2801 01:59:24,719 --> 01:59:26,080 challenges there. So then the question 2802 01:59:26,080 --> 01:59:28,159 becomes like fleshing out each 2803 01:59:28,159 --> 01:59:30,560 sufficiently to be able to weigh those 2804 01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:32,159 logistical challenges. Maybe they don't 2805 01:59:32,159 --> 01:59:33,440 end up being so daunting. 2806 01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:33,920 >> Yeah. 2807 01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:37,040 >> Versus the extra cost which maybe 2808 01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:38,639 doesn't end up being very much right. 2809 01:59:38,639 --> 01:59:40,239 But so but we don't know the answers to 2810 01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:41,520 those questions. So we want to come back 2811 01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:42,960 with 2812 01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:43,760 >> just for clarity 2813 01:59:43,760 --> 01:59:44,320 >> more data. 2814 01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:47,920 >> Yeah. because the because part of the thing and and I wrote it 2815 01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:50,560 down because I I agreed with Hannah when 2816 01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:52,800 she was talking about 2817 01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:56,159 we have to function effectively. I mean, 2818 01:59:56,159 --> 01:59:58,480 what we want is to go through a pro a 2819 01:59:58,480 --> 02:00:00,400 budget process where we come out with a 2820 02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:03,840 responsible town budget. And if if the 2821 02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:06,000 town staff tells us, if you want us to 2822 02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:08,080 have a budget ready by December, we're 2823 02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:10,320 just going to be making numbers up, you 2824 02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:12,080 know, to get a budget done by December 2825 02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:14,000 to be voted on an open town meeting in 2826 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:15,679 January. 2827 02:00:15,679 --> 02:00:17,280 You know, I think we have to weigh is 2828 02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,520 that being effective? You know what I 2829 02:00:19,520 --> 02:00:20,880 mean? So there there are other things 2830 02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:23,360 besides what the dollar amount is to 2831 02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:26,080 cost to something. We still have to be 2832 02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:29,040 really run a responsible town. I think 2833 02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:31,360 that's what we all want. So that's got 2834 02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:34,239 that's part of the factor of with a 2835 02:00:34,239 --> 02:00:35,920 January 2836 02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:37,920 can we come out with a responsible 2837 02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:39,599 budget by the time that we want to vote 2838 02:00:39,599 --> 02:00:42,000 on it, you know. So those those are the 2839 02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:43,520 different things that I think we have to 2840 02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:45,520 think about. Understood. 2841 02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:46,320 >> Thank you. 2842 02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:52,229 >> Yeah. Spoon. 2843 02:00:52,239 --> 02:00:56,639 I'm going to surprise you. Um, having 2844 02:00:56,639 --> 02:00:59,599 spent my life studying democracy and 2845 02:00:59,599 --> 02:01:02,480 being totally devoted to it, even though 2846 02:01:02,480 --> 02:01:05,280 I might as an aside, as far as I know, 2847 02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:08,639 the only really pure social system is 2848 02:01:08,639 --> 02:01:10,320 anarchism. 2849 02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:13,360 But for practical purposes, uh, 2850 02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:17,679 democracy is the best that I know of. 2851 02:01:17,679 --> 02:01:20,320 and transparency which goes right along 2852 02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:28,639 with all that is very very important etc. All that said, as I sit here 2853 02:01:28,639 --> 02:01:31,119 listening to the proceedings, 2854 02:01:31,119 --> 02:01:34,400 I'm not sure you're running this like 2855 02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:38,320 you should be. I honestly feel 2856 02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:40,159 you should have an open part of the 2857 02:01:40,159 --> 02:01:43,920 meeting where people can come and talk 2858 02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:46,800 maybe the first half of your meeting and 2859 02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:51,840 then go in be yourselves. find time for 2860 02:01:51,840 --> 02:01:55,440 yourselves as a commi as a commission 2861 02:01:55,440 --> 02:01:57,040 alone. 2862 02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:01,119 Um I don't I'm asking myself you know 2863 02:02:01,119 --> 02:02:06,880 does it diminish the democratic ideals 2864 02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:10,800 if I am not physically present to listen 2865 02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:14,719 to how you make sausage. 2866 02:02:14,719 --> 02:02:16,800 And the fact of it is it is being 2867 02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:19,360 filmed. It is being recorded. So all of 2868 02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:23,360 the information is available to people. 2869 02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:26,560 And the more important expectation 2870 02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:31,280 again is that when you finish you have a 2871 02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:34,480 good explanation and reasoning for 2872 02:02:34,480 --> 02:02:37,599 everything that you are proposing. 2873 02:02:37,599 --> 02:02:41,119 But I don't I think you would be more 2874 02:02:41,119 --> 02:02:45,599 effective if you take your input 2875 02:02:45,599 --> 02:02:48,960 and then work it out. 2876 02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:51,760 where you have time and peace and no 2877 02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:55,360 interference and uh 2878 02:02:55,360 --> 02:03:00,239 become I think a more a more solid uh 2879 02:03:00,239 --> 02:03:02,159 commission. 2880 02:03:02,159 --> 02:03:03,920 There is open meeting law 2881 02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:10,880 >> spoon you've surprised us and yeah it's not the most comfortable thing 2882 02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:13,920 you've been on this dish um 2883 02:03:13,920 --> 02:03:16,159 >> both sides 2884 02:03:16,159 --> 02:03:20,719 >> it's hard to have um conversations 2885 02:03:20,719 --> 02:03:21,920 especially when you're exploring 2886 02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:24,159 unknowns and trying to like name the 2887 02:03:24,159 --> 02:03:26,320 uncertainties sufficiently that you can 2888 02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:28,719 then get a handle on those uncertainties 2889 02:03:28,719 --> 02:03:30,880 sufficiently to make a good decision. 2890 02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:33,040 Those are not the most comfortable 2891 02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:35,360 processes to do 2892 02:03:35,360 --> 02:03:40,000 in public and it's the public's work. I I 2893 02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:41,760 aside from legal questions of whether or 2894 02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:45,119 not we could excuse everybody from the 2895 02:03:45,119 --> 02:03:46,159 room, I think it would just be an 2896 02:03:46,159 --> 02:03:47,840 enormous mistake for us to excuse 2897 02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:49,199 everybody from the room. I think we need 2898 02:03:49,199 --> 02:03:53,920 to do our work, the public's work, 2899 02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:57,760 hard as it may be in in in this 2900 02:03:57,760 --> 02:03:59,440 setting. And I'll just note that I don't 2901 02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:01,920 think we've done any sort of like 2902 02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,000 drafting on the fly in this room. It's a 2903 02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:04,480 lot of 2904 02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:04,960 >> That's right. 2905 02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:07,199 >> here's what we think and then someone 2906 02:04:07,199 --> 02:04:09,040 usually me writes it and then we come 2907 02:04:09,040 --> 02:04:10,719 back and talk about it the next time. 2908 02:04:10,719 --> 02:04:12,159 >> Yeah, that that's right. So, the 2909 02:04:12,159 --> 02:04:14,960 drafting has happened outside, but the 2910 02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:16,480 getting to the place where we can name 2911 02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:18,639 what we'd like to see drafted has all 2912 02:04:18,639 --> 02:04:20,320 happened here and that's why it's taken 2913 02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:21,119 us years. 2914 02:04:21,119 --> 02:04:24,880 >> Yeah. Um, and we can we'll hopefully get 2915 02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:26,480 to a point where this is on the ballot 2916 02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:28,000 and we will go through an educational 2917 02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,040 process and explain to people why we've 2918 02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:34,960 done certain things and certain I mean 2919 02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:37,440 >> I we have a really good I we have to 2920 02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:40,000 remind people we didn't just talk about 2921 02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:41,679 open you know representative town 2922 02:04:41,679 --> 02:04:43,920 meeting there's a lot of things in this 2923 02:04:43,920 --> 02:04:48,000 charter that we're very happy with joy 2924 02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:51,760 I would like to 2925 02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:54,560 make it known that amongst the title uh 2926 02:04:54,560 --> 02:04:57,840 topics the highle topics that have 2927 02:04:57,840 --> 02:05:01,599 already been stated um Hillary first um 2928 02:05:01,599 --> 02:05:04,639 and then others that 2929 02:05:04,639 --> 02:05:07,280 would fill in 2930 02:05:07,280 --> 02:05:09,520 a lot of my concerns. So I do hope that 2931 02:05:09,520 --> 02:05:12,480 like it's not waiting for next week to 2932 02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:14,159 get the question the very specific 2933 02:05:14,159 --> 02:05:16,800 questions that I hope like one or two 2934 02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:18,800 become 2935 02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:20,800 almost lynchpin and of course we won't 2936 02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:22,639 know until the answer is it a legal 2937 02:05:22,639 --> 02:05:25,840 question is it the is it venue question 2938 02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:31,280 is it efficiency question um so the the 2939 02:05:31,280 --> 02:05:35,199 high level view of those absolutely 2940 02:05:35,199 --> 02:05:38,080 would fill it like the any hesitation of 2941 02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:41,440 Yeah, no one does it in January. 2942 02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:43,599 Why? 2943 02:05:43,599 --> 02:05:46,320 That could be the legal question. 2944 02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:47,520 >> Well, you have to. 2945 02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:49,199 >> Yes, we can amend with charter. 2946 02:05:49,199 --> 02:05:52,719 Absolutely. But I just, you know, is 2947 02:05:52,719 --> 02:05:54,880 that a legal question? If it's not, 2948 02:05:54,880 --> 02:06:00,560 fine. Um but just um I acknowledge that 2949 02:06:00,560 --> 02:06:04,239 the topics that cause hesitation 2950 02:06:04,239 --> 02:06:07,360 that cause confusion 2951 02:06:07,360 --> 02:06:09,199 have been the higher level have been 2952 02:06:09,199 --> 02:06:11,440 stated. So as they get flushed out, yes, 2953 02:06:11,440 --> 02:06:13,360 to consider 2954 02:06:13,360 --> 02:06:16,800 >> hearing um from the subject matter 2955 02:06:16,800 --> 02:06:20,159 experts, whether it's just in a memo, 2956 02:06:20,159 --> 02:06:22,000 they you know, I'm not demanding anyone 2957 02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:24,639 show up in person, but 2958 02:06:24,639 --> 02:06:27,830 >> yeah, 2959 02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:30,159 » I want to make sure I understand your 2960 02:06:30,159 --> 02:06:34,079 point. So you you made a very specific 2961 02:06:34,079 --> 02:06:36,880 >> example and that's if it's if it's just 2962 02:06:36,880 --> 02:06:38,400 an example and you're making a broader 2963 02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:39,679 point. I want to make sure I've got your 2964 02:06:39,679 --> 02:06:41,520 broader point. So why does nobody do it 2965 02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:44,239 in January is a question you asked that 2966 02:06:44,239 --> 02:06:47,679 deserves an answer. Um 2967 02:06:47,679 --> 02:06:51,760 if we can learn one. Um are there other 2968 02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:53,520 similarly specific questions or was that 2969 02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:58,480 meant to send us on a path towards the 2970 02:06:58,480 --> 02:06:59,760 kinds of things you're concerned about? 2971 02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:02,239 because I I don't know what other 2972 02:07:02,239 --> 02:07:03,920 specific things might be on that kinds 2973 02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:05,040 of things list. 2974 02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:09,990 >> Right. Um 2975 02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:12,400 today I meant it as an example and I 2976 02:07:12,400 --> 02:07:15,679 have no doubt that more details would 2977 02:07:15,679 --> 02:07:17,199 give 2978 02:07:17,199 --> 02:07:19,679 potential but I wouldn't want to stop 2979 02:07:19,679 --> 02:07:23,119 the investigation for two weeks 2980 02:07:23,119 --> 02:07:25,280 >> because some of some people might be 2981 02:07:25,280 --> 02:07:27,199 available earlier than later. 2982 02:07:27,199 --> 02:07:28,560 >> Totally. We actually have some meetings 2983 02:07:28,560 --> 02:07:31,119 already set up for next week in case 2984 02:07:31,119 --> 02:07:33,280 this was continuing to move forward. And 2985 02:07:33,280 --> 02:07:34,880 so we will follow through on those and 2986 02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:36,880 we'll do some more work together. 2987 02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:39,360 >> But um 2988 02:07:39,360 --> 02:07:42,480 I think it's important that you all get 2989 02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:45,119 a chance to say to us 2990 02:07:45,119 --> 02:07:47,760 next week that you know upon further 2991 02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:49,840 reflection this this this and this or 2992 02:07:49,840 --> 02:07:53,119 you know I need answers to this this and this. And it may be that we've 2993 02:07:53,119 --> 02:07:55,119 already gathered answers to that by the 2994 02:07:55,119 --> 02:07:56,800 time you name it, but it may be that we 2995 02:07:56,800 --> 02:07:58,239 haven't and then we would have some 2996 02:07:58,239 --> 02:08:00,880 additional time to go and do that. 2997 02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:06,629 >> Yeah. 2998 02:08:06,639 --> 02:08:08,719 » Does it feel okay about that? 2999 02:08:08,719 --> 02:08:08,960 >> Yeah, 3000 02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:10,960 >> we'll move forward. 3001 02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:13,679 Okay. So, next week we will continue 3002 02:08:13,679 --> 02:08:15,360 this. Peter and I will continue our 3003 02:08:15,360 --> 02:08:18,320 work. We'll put together what we can and 3004 02:08:18,320 --> 02:08:21,440 then next week everybody come with some 3005 02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:23,920 other thoughts 3006 02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:25,760 and then we can have a full-blown 3007 02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:28,000 discussion on where we want to go and 3008 02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,440 how we want to do it on the 18th. Is 3009 02:08:31,440 --> 02:08:32,800 that the day? 3010 02:08:32,800 --> 02:08:33,760 >> Is that our next meeting? 3011 02:08:33,760 --> 02:08:34,400 >> Yeah, 3012 02:08:34,400 --> 02:08:35,280 >> the 18th. 3013 02:08:35,280 --> 02:08:35,679 >> Okay. 3014 02:08:35,679 --> 02:08:37,760 >> I think it's the 18th. 3015 02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:39,199 >> Yeah, we're gonna look it up because it 3016 02:08:39,199 --> 02:08:40,560 is okay. Um 3017 02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:42,480 >> I looked it up but I can't remember. 3018 02:08:42,480 --> 02:08:47,920 Given that I unless anybody disagrees, 3019 02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:51,760 um, we were going to talk about 3020 02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:53,679 the finance committee and the human 3021 02:08:53,679 --> 02:08:55,760 services committee, 3022 02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:59,360 but we should maybe wait until we know 3023 02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:01,280 what we're doing. 3024 02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:02,880 One of the the only thing the human 3025 02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:05,199 services committee wants is we have them 3026 02:09:05,199 --> 02:09:07,760 in our charter now having 11 members and 3027 02:09:07,760 --> 02:09:10,719 upon reflection they want us to have 3028 02:09:10,719 --> 02:09:13,599 nine members. So it's not these are not 3029 02:09:13,599 --> 02:09:15,920 big things. These are just two of the 3030 02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:19,760 things because they came out of 3031 02:09:19,760 --> 02:09:22,870 um 3032 02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:24,079 you know they were in representative 3033 02:09:24,079 --> 02:09:25,760 tummy. We put them on open t. want to 3034 02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:27,520 make sure we're still comfortable with 3035 02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:29,199 the language, but it's nothing. We we 3036 02:09:29,199 --> 02:09:31,199 haven't been asked to do anything major. 3037 02:09:31,199 --> 02:09:34,159 So, we can hold off on those if we want 3038 02:09:34,159 --> 02:09:36,960 until we're comfortable with what we're 3039 02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:41,360 doing with the Australian ballot. Um, 3040 02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:43,040 so we can 3041 02:09:43,040 --> 02:09:45,440 >> just on that point, I think that that 3042 02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:48,800 this whole 3043 02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:52,159 dual vote thing needs to to be discussed 3044 02:09:52,159 --> 02:09:53,679 with them because this would also affect 3045 02:09:53,679 --> 02:09:55,840 their timelines. 3046 02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:57,280 Well, the finance committee 3047 02:09:57,280 --> 02:09:58,800 >> and the human services committee. 3048 02:09:58,800 --> 02:09:59,119 >> Yeah. 3049 02:09:59,119 --> 02:10:01,199 Especially if we switch when 3050 02:10:01,199 --> 02:10:02,639 >> especially if they're getting elected in 3051 02:10:02,639 --> 02:10:03,199 March. 3052 02:10:03,199 --> 02:10:03,599 >> Yeah. 3053 02:10:03,599 --> 02:10:05,119 >> And then they're expected to do all of 3054 02:10:05,119 --> 02:10:07,920 their work by December. Is that 3055 02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:09,360 realistic? 3056 02:10:09,360 --> 02:10:14,709 >> Yep. 3057 02:10:14,719 --> 02:10:18,719 » Okay. So, and let's have anyone Does 3058 02:10:18,719 --> 02:10:20,480 anyone have any other business? Well, we 3059 02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:24,239 can we will come back next Thursday 3060 02:10:24,239 --> 02:10:26,320 here at 6:15. 3061 02:10:26,320 --> 02:10:28,320 >> Are we not talking to the quorum? 3062 02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:29,599 >> Well, do we want to talk about it now or 3063 02:10:29,599 --> 02:10:30,159 to go on? 3064 02:10:30,159 --> 02:10:32,639 >> I mean, I Bob again can't be here 3065 02:10:32,639 --> 02:10:35,360 tonight, but he 3066 02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:38,159 wanted to make it clear that he does not 3067 02:10:38,159 --> 02:10:41,599 think that it is legal to do a quorum 3068 02:10:41,599 --> 02:10:43,520 because everyone has the right to vote. 3069 02:10:43,520 --> 02:10:46,880 And by having a quorum, you're telling 3070 02:10:46,880 --> 02:10:49,520 people that they can't vote. 3071 02:10:49,520 --> 02:10:51,440 This only came up from it was actually 3072 02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:54,480 Dan Gartenstein that was the one that 3073 02:10:54,480 --> 02:10:56,000 made the suggestion that do we need a 3074 02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:59,520 quorum. So that's why we put that on our 3075 02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:01,360 >> So if you want him to do that memo for 3076 02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:02,639 next time, it would just be good to know 3077 02:11:02,639 --> 02:11:03,920 if you need more information or if 3078 02:11:03,920 --> 02:11:10,239 that's sufficient to end that discussion. 3079 02:11:10,239 --> 02:11:12,560 >> No, I think a memo from here would be 3080 02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:13,679 good. 3081 02:11:13,679 --> 02:11:16,320 >> I think for backup documentation. 3082 02:11:16,320 --> 02:11:19,280 Yeah. 3083 02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:22,079 So, 3084 02:11:22,079 --> 02:11:22,560 >> okay. 3085 02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:24,960 >> I did an agenda for next meeting. 3086 02:11:24,960 --> 02:11:27,599 >> Just one sec. 3087 02:11:27,599 --> 02:11:29,920 >> Okay. Is there any other business that 3088 02:11:29,920 --> 02:11:32,400 anyone has? Otherwise, we'll see 3089 02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:34,320 everybody back here a week from today at 3090 02:11:34,320 --> 02:11:35,199 6:15. 3091 02:11:35,199 --> 02:11:36,239 >> Yep. 3092 02:11:36,239 --> 02:11:37,520 >> Does somebody want to make a motion to 3093 02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:39,040 adjurnn? 3094 02:11:39,040 --> 02:11:40,320 >> So moved. 3095 02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:43,920 >> All those in favor of adjourning? Hi. 3096 02:11:43,920 --> 02:11:45,760 >> Thanks everybody for coming and offering 3097 02:11:45,760 --> 02:11:50,520 your opinions. We appreciate it.