1
00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:11,679
Okay,

2
00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:13,280
>> thank you.

3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,360
>> Okay, I'm convening the Browboro

4
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,400
Planning Commission meeting to order.

5
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,439
This is September 9th at 6 PM.

6
00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:24,880
Uh, first order of business is to review

7
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,480
and approve the minutes of our last

8
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,630
meeting, August 3rd.

9
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,960
and I'll just make that motion.

10
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,640
>> I'll second it.

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,879
>> Thank you, Lindsay. Any comments on

12
00:00:38,879 --> 00:00:40,079
those minutes?

13
00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:42,160
>> Uh, just give me a second to stand over

14
00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:43,600
them one more time. I don't think there

15
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:54,549
was anything else that I had.

16
00:00:54,559 --> 00:00:57,039
No,

17
00:00:57,039 --> 00:00:59,520
>> always interesting when cameras pick up

18
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,719
reality um with a mirror image if that's

19
00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:04,400
what the owl's doing because the banner

20
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,920
behind me on the screen is

21
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,360
>> It looks like it is. I'm probably

22
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,799
there's probably some setting but

23
00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:12,230
>> yeah,

24
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,190
it's not going to reverse our words. So,

25
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,119
» okay. All those in favor of approving

26
00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:20,720
the minutes.

27
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:21,439
>> I

28
00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:23,520
>> That's a three here. and Lindsay, that's

29
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,200
all in favor. Okay, for announcements,

30
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,560
um I have a couple points. Um after our

31
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,040
maybe a couple days after, I don't know

32
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,200
when it was, but after our letter about

33
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,799
advocating for the BMH um of obstetrics

34
00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:42,000
services um was published. Um the found

35
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,600
manager emailed me and said, "Well

36
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,159
written, good job. Thanks for, you know,

37
00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:50,560
adding your voice." and he he applauded

38
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,840
um our letter. So, wanted to share all

39
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,680
that with you. Um and I responded to

40
00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,759
him, you know, thank you. It's a it's a

41
00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:04,230
team effort. Um

42
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,000
yeah, the other thing is that um it's

43
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,319
not set in stone, but for our October

44
00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:11,360
meeting, the um health and whatever

45
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,720
we're going to title it, the community

46
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,760
health and wellness chapter, um our

47
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,000
community members, Cassandra and Shila,

48
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,800
who are the main people working on it,

49
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,720
um

50
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,280
think tentatively that they'll for our

51
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,040
October meeting have a draft for us to

52
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,280
review. It may be November.

53
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,440
Um, those are all the announcements I

54
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,319
have. Anyone else? Sue,

55
00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:35,760
>> I have a couple. Okay.

56
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,920
>> So, the select board has set the town

57
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,239
plan town plan public hearings for

58
00:02:40,239 --> 00:02:44,400
October 6th and October 15th. The they

59
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,080
have to have two public hearings and

60
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,160
then after they close the public hearing

61
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,120
on the 15th, they could vote to adopt it

62
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,040
if they so choose. Um, so it would be

63
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,400
really great. Maybe I'll send out a

64
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:57,840
separate email, but it would be great to

65
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,160
have some planning commissioners um

66
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,959
either online or in person. And if you

67
00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:04,800
want to split it up or you know,

68
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,319
however, it would be great to have some

69
00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:08,560
support. I suspect

70
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,400
um at the October 6th, I'll make a

71
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,400
presentation unless any of you want to

72
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,879
make the presentation um or help me with

73
00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,120
the presentation and then uh they'll

74
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,239
open it up for public comment. So um I

75
00:03:20,239 --> 00:03:21,599
don't expect these will be, you know,

76
00:03:21,599 --> 00:03:23,519
they're part of the regular agenda. So

77
00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:25,040
there'll be other things on those

78
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,599
meetings as well. Um and then I also

79
00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:32,959
wanted to report that um public works

80
00:03:32,959 --> 00:03:35,519
has bought and started installing some

81
00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:39,040
bicycle racks in the downtown. Um I saw

82
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,440
two of them in front of the works today.

83
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,120
I think there were there was one I

84
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,440
couldn't recall if it was um already

85
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,159
existing, but there's kind of one near

86
00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:51,760
Maragold and then one uh kind of in the

87
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,319
Amy's area. Um I know that they were

88
00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:56,000
following the recommendations and they

89
00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,319
have bought the um the ones I think the

90
00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,400
post and ring and I think they've bought

91
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,280
10 of them. So I haven't found them all.

92
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,239
That's what I saw today. So yeah,

93
00:04:08,239 --> 00:04:10,480
>> that's great.

94
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,799
I had been thinking recently and I I

95
00:04:12,799 --> 00:04:15,040
won't admit that it's the entire reason

96
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,359
for delaying writing a letter to um some

97
00:04:19,359 --> 00:04:20,720
of the private property owners

98
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,880
encouraging them. Remember we were Gemma

99
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,320
and I were talking about we don't do

100
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,080
that. I recent most of the reason that

101
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,600
hasn't happened yet or at least it

102
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,120
hasn't come before a commission is just

103
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,919
procrastination and other things but um

104
00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:35,919
on on my plate but also I was thinking

105
00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:37,759
recently like oh it'd be kind of nice if

106
00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:41,040
like the town government does like its

107
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,440
part first so to speak and then we're we

108
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,199
say the private property owners not in

109
00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:48,000
such blunt words but like look we did it

110
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,199
now you know we invite you to consider

111
00:04:51,199 --> 00:04:53,440
doing it too. So I think it's nice to

112
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,840
lead by example. So, I'm glad I

113
00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,560
procrastinated so long and continued to

114
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,080
a while longer.

115
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,400
>> And I would also just add that when I

116
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,639
walked by the two in front of the works,

117
00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:06,639
there was a bicycle

118
00:05:06,639 --> 00:05:11,600
um locked up on one of them. So,

119
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,199
>> okay, thank you for those announcements,

120
00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:14,720
Sue.

121
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,240
>> Um

122
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,880
okay, moving on to the residential land

123
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,400
uses functionally similar. This is um

124
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,199
the project that Lindsay has spearheaded

125
00:05:25,199 --> 00:05:28,400
and um updated us agency over the past

126
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,880
months and has a memo or a whole write

127
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,400
up and proposals for us um and

128
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,240
potentially decisions to make. Lindsay

129
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,160
pass it off.

130
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,880
>> Sure. Um, I don't really have anything

131
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,680
to add to the memo, but if people have

132
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,960
questions or comments or feedback that

133
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,560
they want to give, then um, I'll take

134
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,600
notes and make note of that for

135
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,759
consideration. Um, but it's just as

136
00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:11,270
written. soon.

137
00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:15,039
» Well, hopefully um we all had time to

138
00:06:15,039 --> 00:06:18,560
read through it. At least the first

139
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,000
one, two, three pages. I think the pages

140
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,919
after that are, you know, important

141
00:06:23,919 --> 00:06:27,840
context, but not the main main thrust of

142
00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,600
it.

143
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:39,670
Um Anybody

144
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,160
want to ask some questions or should

145
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,510
they have any before? Maybe we

146
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,950
had like perspective or

147
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,950
our point of view on

148
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,880
» I'm just getting back from a trip. So, I

149
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,599
only reviewed this briefly. So, I I

150
00:07:01,599 --> 00:07:04,319
guess I was personally need more

151
00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:06,720
clarification on it. I know it says what

152
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,680
it says, but when a lot of acrimans are

153
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,950
used, I have to not really know

154
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,160
» you're not sure.

155
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,160
>> I'm just getting picked on to what the

156
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,759
ac

157
00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:23,840
and everything. So um anyway, so in a

158
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,960
nutshell, I guess

159
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,000
we're trying to recategorize

160
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,160
um single room occupancies into

161
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,919
something different. Is that correct?

162
00:07:37,919 --> 00:07:39,199
>> That's part of it. Yep.

163
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:41,840
>> Like a quick summary would be what

164
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,680
you're trying to do.

165
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,199
>> Okay.

166
00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:46,960
Um,

167
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,240
then I guess I'll just

168
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,199
uh I don't think so. I'm happy to

169
00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:54,639
provide a quick summary, but I don't

170
00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:56,479
have anything beyond what I wrote. I

171
00:07:56,479 --> 00:07:59,440
mean, that's that's my summary is what I

172
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,280
wrote. I can read from it if people

173
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,430
would like that.

174
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,479
» No, that's not necessary. But I'm also

175
00:08:08,479 --> 00:08:10,160
like if people haven't had a chance to

176
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,479
read it, then it's fine with me. If if

177
00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:14,240
people need more time and we come back

178
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,919
to it in October, it's not an emergency.

179
00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:19,680
I'm happy to take whatever feedback

180
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,080
people have today or questions and then

181
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,000
come back to it in October if there's

182
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,479
more.

183
00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:29,919
>> Okay. Um I'll go next. Um,

184
00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:33,760
one thing that seemed informant to me is

185
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,440
that

186
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,760
in the other specialized residential

187
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,080
category, um, the SRO's does seem quite

188
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,040
different than all the others things

189
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,279
that are in that as per our definition

190
00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:52,160
in land use reg. It's things like

191
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,800
barracks and dormitories and

192
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,160
shelters. and SRO's.

193
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,279
Um I think maybe they're all lumped in that definition with similarity

194
00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:06,560
because well because they're kind of

195
00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:10,000
miscellaneous and two because of the

196
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,440
general structure that like the actual

197
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,120
physical stuff maybe that they take um

198
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,920
they conventionally are have been um

199
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,670
could be strict throughout

200
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:26,399
or even four or five story unit

201
00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:28,800
residential But what I'm getting at is

202
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,560
that um an SRO is like a a real

203
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,120
permanent um

204
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,519
or it can be like a long-term permanent

205
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:40,959
residence for people that's akin to an

206
00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:43,680
apartment or a house or a roomy house

207
00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:45,200
just like a different form of where

208
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,240
people live. But like barracks and

209
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,160
dormitories and um shelters, those all

210
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,080
seem to me much more like purpose

211
00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,560
or like oriented. So um and like

212
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:03,360
contextual like dormitories often with a

213
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,279
school and barracks is with the military

214
00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:08,720
or law enforcement and shelters with um

215
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,640
because of an emergency or because

216
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,839
homeless um needs and uh people um

217
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:19,600
having services related to those. So I

218
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,920
think SRO's

219
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,120
um if we were to do anything uh with SRO

220
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,320
it it shouldn't

221
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,760
it in line with the the um the purpose

222
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,279
of Lindsay's work here. I think just

223
00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:37,440
potentially focusing on and changing

224
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,279
SRO's

225
00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:40,959
um

226
00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:42,480
the changes should happen only to

227
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,560
specifically SRO, not the whole larger

228
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,079
category of other specialized

229
00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:47,680
residential.

230
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:50,240
That's a clear way of saying it. and the

231
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,040
um the LDCS, which is the landbased

232
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,120
classification system, which is how

233
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,880
pretty much all of our uses are

234
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,440
categorized. It's like some

235
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,519
American or worldwide um planning

236
00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:05,360
categorization.

237
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,920
Um I think other residential services,

238
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,480
yeah, it's right there on the screen. Um

239
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:15,279
1300 is the is the code, but um

240
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:20,640
>> SRO's 1340. What page of the land use

241
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,959
regulations is this? Five. Okay.

242
00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:24,800
>> Uh 5-6 or

243
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:25,519
>> the wrong place.

244
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:28,399
>> 221 if you've got it up.

245
00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:31,600
>> I was looking at the the 3-9 page that

246
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,399
Lindsay referenced in her.

247
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:36,959
The heck is this? It's way down there.

248
00:11:36,959 --> 00:11:39,600
>> There's some special regulations. I I

249
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,560
pulled up the definitions. The 3-9 that

250
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,040
Lindsay referred to is probably the

251
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,959
special regulations.

252
00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:51,190
um that applied to SRO.

253
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,839
» Yeah. The only real questions that I had

254
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:55,440
um you know were pretty much related to

255
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,880
what Tom just said that um I think that

256
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,120
there's a danger of lumping all of these

257
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,839
different types of facilities into you

258
00:12:03,839 --> 00:12:06,160
know one catchall category when they

259
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,800
probably really shouldn't be right and

260
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,560
they they currently are in our lane use

261
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,480
strikes but but if we're looking at this

262
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,720
and trying to improve it then

263
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,440
>> yeah I think SRO is are quite different

264
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,519
>> yeah I mean the idea here is that we

265
00:12:19,519 --> 00:12:22,399
want more housing of all kinds

266
00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:24,320
There we go. 56.

267
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,399
>> And I think it is in that category as it

268
00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:28,880
the code is a structure code

269
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,560
>> as some of the other codes are function

270
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,959
codes like go down congregate living or

271
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:34,959
I think rooming house might be you know

272
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:36,800
a function code as well.

273
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,720
>> Um

274
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,959
>> yeah the structures are it has to do

275
00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:42,959
with like the type of building the

276
00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:44,800
structure on the land and then if you go

277
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,040
down to the next it's the function. So

278
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,279
the economic function or type of

279
00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,120
establishment and then there's even a

280
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,680
further category in the land use uh the

281
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,240
land classification system which is the

282
00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,000
activity which is kind of the observable

283
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,000
characteristics of what's going on on

284
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,880
the land. So we tried to when we did the

285
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,800
regulations stick at structure and

286
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,680
there's function mixed in for sure and

287
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,440
that's where um on the other specialized

288
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,920
we went up one higher. I I don't know

289
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,680
why we did that. I mean, I think it was

290
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:21,600
just to not have list all these uses. Um

291
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:27,279
and the you know, in this situation, the unifying feature is that these are

292
00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:29,680
all kind of multi-unit

293
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,240
um structures. So,

294
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,760
>> do we have access to a copy of this LBCS

295
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,120
document?

296
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,720
>> Um it's online.

297
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,839
>> Okay. Where would I find that? Uh you

298
00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:44,399
could look up land use uh land

299
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,399
classification based system

300
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:47,920
>> but I mean is that like a federal

301
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:48,480
website?

302
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,079
>> It's uh I think it's from the American

303
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:51,040
Planning Association.

304
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,360
>> Okay.

305
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,639
>> Yeah.

306
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:57,600
>> The definition on that website

307
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,230
says um

308
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,079
for SRO's

309
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:07,519
that they are other

310
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:08,320
I didn't write down the whole

311
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,160
definition. I can pull it up,

312
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,800
>> but it wrote it said um it described it

313
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,120
and then it said or other structurally

314
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,440
converted buildings. Oh, no. No, that's

315
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,959
what it isn't that our should

316
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:24,079
>> unfortunately I left my regulations.

317
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:25,760
>> That's structurally no different than

318
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,920
hotels.

319
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,839
>> And maybe that's how they used to be. I

320
00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:32,079
don't know. I think it is a row I'm

321
00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:34,399
aware of in town. Sometimes people refer

322
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:36,399
to the cobblestone in my neighborhood on

323
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:38,880
the corner of Canal and the exit of

324
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,800
Clark Street.

325
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720
It's right next to that agape church.

326
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:43,040
>> Oh.

327
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,399
>> But it just, you know, it just looks

328
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:46,880
like a three or four unit or a big

329
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:47,519
house.

330
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:49,920
>> Yeah. So I don't

331
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,360
you know I don't know

332
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,839
in our current regulations I interpret

333
00:14:55,839 --> 00:14:58,320
SRO as being

334
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,600
um a defining feature of it as being

335
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,320
like the type of the structure itself.

336
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,240
>> Um obviously it's multiple units in

337
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,240
there and the units aren't aren't full

338
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,800
apartments. But um another thing

339
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,040
Lindsay's memo kind of talks about is um

340
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,920
maybe some confusion about what the

341
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,000
difference is between SRO's and rooming

342
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,600
houses. And it seems like they're pretty

343
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,480
similar, but

344
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,000
to me a rooming house is looks like a

345
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,880
house on the outside and an SRO looks

346
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,399
like like a block building or a hotel or

347
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:34,800
commercial blocky building. And now

348
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,639
inside SRO are do are structured or are

349
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:41,040
formatted a bit differently than rooming

350
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,360
houses inside as well.

351
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,040
>> But um

352
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,720
to me it's the outside. It's kind of the size and the aesthetics and the form

353
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,600
the outside that is

354
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,839
like a foundational difference. But

355
00:15:57,839 --> 00:16:00,079
other people might feel different about

356
00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:01,040
that.

357
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,320
So, um I think you're accurate. Do you

358
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,839
mind if I speak?

359
00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:08,800
>> I think you're accurate, um in that, you

360
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,720
know, our definition of a single room

361
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,120
occupancy is ba based on the kind of

362
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,240
historical context of hotel or block

363
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,959
building and the rooming house, sporting

364
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:23,279
house is more of a single

365
00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:26,480
family residential conversion, right?

366
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,240
Um, so I'm thinking, you know,

367
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,560
maybe in the 20s or 30s where somebody's

368
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,240
moving around to work and they're going

369
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,399
to rent out in a room or boarding house

370
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:38,320
or whatever and and stay there for a

371
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,000
short period of time. The rooming and

372
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,839
boarding house is really getting at, you

373
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:46,720
know, some a shorter term tenency. Um,

374
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,480
I think Lindsay is proposing, you know,

375
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,399
putting

376
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:55,040
um the SRO and the rooming and boarding

377
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,199
house and modernizing it and calling

378
00:16:57,199 --> 00:16:59,680
them um co-l livingiving

379
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,480
>> um which I think is is really

380
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,880
interesting. The American Planning

381
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,959
Association has a definition of

382
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:09,520
co-living which is a residential

383
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,199
development type that features

384
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:13,839
individually rented lockable private

385
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,400
sleeping or living quarters and combined

386
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,720
with centrally managed shared amenities

387
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,240
like kitchen, lounges, workspace. Um

388
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,000
that's the definition I could find and I

389
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,520
don't know if Lindsay that's what you

390
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,839
were kind of working from kind of the

391
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,160
APA. Um,

392
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,559
>> that was the idea behind it. And I first

393
00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:34,960
heard about it being used in in

394
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,360
Portsouth, New Hampshire.

395
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,280
>> So that's where this idea sort of came

396
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:40,799
from and then

397
00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:42,799
>> them adopting that.

398
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:44,640
>> Yeah. Interesting. I was in Portsouth

399
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,840
kind of touring around a couple of um

400
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,360
towns in New Hampshire and Maine for

401
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,080
economic development purposes and they

402
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,679
talked about, you know, have permitting

403
00:17:53,679 --> 00:17:57,039
some microtells like, you know, as kind

404
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,400
of a modern SRO, right? co living. Um,

405
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,559
and so I think it's it's interesting and

406
00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:04,799
I'm intrigued by it. It it would it

407
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:08,160
would be a departure from our landbased

408
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,960
classification system which has worked

409
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,799
for us. So some of my colleagues I think

410
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:14,400
have a little bit more consternation

411
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,559
about going in a different route when we

412
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:19,600
felt like previous zoning ordinances

413
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,520
anytime a definition was wanted it was

414
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,840
made up. And you know, and at the same

415
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,160
time, I think that these two definitions

416
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,880
have always been very dated to me. And

417
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,679
so, you know, I'm maybe a little bit

418
00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:33,520
more open to taking both of them,

419
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,000
calling them co-living. Um, actually, in

420
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,919
the American Planning Association, they

421
00:18:37,919 --> 00:18:41,520
also put congregate living um under the

422
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,559
co- um co-living. So, in in one sense,

423
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:46,799
we could do this co-living and get rid

424
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:48,960
of those three definitions and

425
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,760
regulations and go that route. Um but

426
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,360
there is some consternation within the

427
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,280
department of do we depart from the

428
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,400
landbased classific class classification

429
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,520
system that we've held to for the last

430
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,160
11 years and has worked well for us. Um,

431
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,160
regardless of which way we go, I think

432
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,200
the work that Lindsay has done in

433
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,440
looking at how are we treating, you

434
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,760
know, the the different as permitted or

435
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,320
conditional, I think that's really solid

436
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,840
and helpful. And,

437
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,000
>> you know, we should probably go ahead

438
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,919
and make those changes. To me, the

439
00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:26,799
bigger question is, do we try to define

440
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:30,799
SRO and rooming boarding houses?

441
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:32,559
You know, does it work the way it is? is

442
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:35,039
do we need to do something or do we add

443
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:36,960
a you know replace them with the co-l

444
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,120
livingiving I would still keep other

445
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:40,880
specialized residential just because

446
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,400
it's got things like the barracks the

447
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,960
dorms the shelters

448
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,760
um and then the only other thing I would

449
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,840
say is if we agree that co-living is

450
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,160
more of that multi-unit then we want to

451
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,039
make sure there's parity there um with

452
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:56,320
our conditional permitted and

453
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,640
conditional uses for example if you are

454
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,160
doing more than five units in a

455
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,080
residential zoning district in a new

456
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,679
building that would be a conditional

457
00:20:03,679 --> 00:20:06,559
use. I think we'd if we're going to say

458
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:07,840
we just want to make sure how we're

459
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,320
treating multi-unit is equal to what we

460
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,280
do with the co-living uses.

461
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,919
>> Yeah. The only real question that I had

462
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:19,360
about that was this introduction of a

463
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,080
new term co-living when there is already

464
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,160
a term congregate living

465
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,640
>> in the uh in the land use regulations.

466
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,520
And I'm not sure why we would move to a

467
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,280
new definition that could be potentially

468
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,480
confusing to people.

469
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,159
>> Could you give are there any examples in

470
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:38,000
town of congregate living? So

471
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,280
>> I don't know if any of congregate living

472
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,960
I I mean these kind of uses all of them

473
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,799
are probably happening and you know it's

474
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:50,640
kind of just

475
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,720
people doing their thing and using their

476
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,120
houses in ways and we're not so

477
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,799
concerned about it. I think there is

478
00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:58,559
congregate living in Putney. I think

479
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,400
Putney Cares operates a house on Kimell

480
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520
Hill and I think it's generally for

481
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,480
seniors and I think meals are provided.

482
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,440
That is that's the one that I'm aware

483
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,280
of. Um I'm not sure of other congregate

484
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,720
living around. Um, the definition does

485
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,400
seem to tie to some 1970s

486
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,960
um, federal act where they were trying

487
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,480
to get more congregate living. And so I

488
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,720
think that's why Lindy Lindsay was

489
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,039
suggesting I don't know if it was in

490
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:34,960
your notes or if it was in in your main

491
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,840
thing, but the congregate could actually

492
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,799
go into the the housing for elderly or

493
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:42,720
whatever. Um,

494
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,080
>> and [clears throat] part of the reason I

495
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,880
chose co-l livingiving in addition to it

496
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,440
already being a used term elsewhere is

497
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,559
that it's a term that people associate

498
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:56,799
more with quality than some of the other

499
00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:58,799
terms that are currently being used for

500
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:01,120
the same type of housing. So, I wanted

501
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,039
to try and help eliminate some of the

502
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:07,440
implicit bias that certain terms can

503
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,679
bring up and use a term that's more

504
00:22:09,679 --> 00:22:19,110
modern and less associated with poverty.

505
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:19,919
» I go first.

506
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:23,600
>> Yeah. So, one um different angle I have

507
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,480
on it is not on the on the term co-l

508
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,559
livingiving but um kind of expounding on

509
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:32,240
what I said before where I think of a

510
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,559
moving house as looking like a house

511
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:38,559
from the outside and an SRO looking I

512
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:41,120
think generally having more so-called

513
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,760
unit on it than the rented bedrooms in a

514
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,360
rooming house but not necessarily but

515
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,280
looking like a bigger building and more

516
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,919
blocky building. Um,

517
00:22:49,919 --> 00:22:53,520
I think maybe the most similar use in

518
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,080
our rags currently to an SRO is a

519
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,600
multi-unit

520
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,000
five plus

521
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,720
>> maybe hotel in the sense of how it looks

522
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,320
on the outside at least conventionally.

523
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,320
But as far as like the impact to the

524
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,679
neighborhood, traffic, noise,

525
00:23:11,679 --> 00:23:13,760
people interactions, I think a

526
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,440
multi-unit um five plus five and up is

527
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,039
most similar. And so

528
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:22,640
we

529
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,280
have some similarities in how we permit

530
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,120
or don't permit or conditional treat uh

531
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,000
multi-unit five and up compared to

532
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,480
single family residential.

533
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,400
Um we have some similarities there but

534
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,480
we also have some differences.

535
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,440
So similarly in my mind lumping SRO

536
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,960
together with rooming house is a bit too

537
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,120
general.

538
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,760
I'd say you know a good comparison is

539
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,440
like in my mind is that wherever we

540
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,720
permit multi-unit five and up maybe

541
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,039
that's where we should permit SRO's.

542
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:01,440
Wherever we're conditional conditionally

543
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,440
allow multi-unit five and up that's

544
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,120
where we should conditionally allow SRO.

545
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,200
wherever we don't allow multi-unit five

546
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,120
and up. Same with SRO's. That's my

547
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:12,240
thinking.

548
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:12,720
>> Yeah, I think

549
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,960
>> but unnecessarily treat rooming houses

550
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,480
the same way as those. I

551
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,159
>> I think that's kind of a no-brainer that

552
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:20,799
if if we have differences in that now

553
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:22,159
that that should be corrected. They

554
00:24:22,159 --> 00:24:27,840
should be permitted, you know, where things are already permitted. Um

555
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,240
I'm just wondering if we even need to

556
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,640
make any changes to these different

557
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,880
definitions. Um, the one thing that

558
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,120
really struck out really stuck out to me

559
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,039
in the definition of the congregate

560
00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:41,520
living in the land use regulations is

561
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,760
that it's really the way it's phrased

562
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,440
one or more structures intended to

563
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,120
provide housing and services to

564
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,760
residents. It seems like that it's like

565
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080
a company providing that service to

566
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,320
somebody and that's not really, you

567
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,840
know, what we're talking about here.

568
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,520
When we say co-l livingiving, we're

569
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,039
really talking about something that's

570
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,080
more like an SRO where people are have

571
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,919
shared facilities in the building, but

572
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:05,200
we want to call it something different

573
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,080
than an SRO because that name has

574
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,279
negative connotations for some people.

575
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,720
Um, but as far as, you know, the types

576
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,640
of buildings and the types of uses that

577
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,600
are actually being employed, it seems to

578
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,440
me like they're all covered in these

579
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,880
definitions. We just, you know, might

580
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,279
talk about them on paper one way and

581
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:28,799
talk about them in person a different

582
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:34,630
way.

583
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,600
» Okay.

584
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,000
>> So,

585
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,159
me if I did not get this clearly, but so

586
00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:45,039
you compared it to like a five unit,

587
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:45,360
right?

588
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:46,320
>> That's what I think is

589
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,720
>> but like I think a five unit is

590
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,440
>> five and up.

591
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,679
is is what it is. It's it's

592
00:25:51,679 --> 00:25:55,760
a it's a house with a kitchen and but an

593
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,240
SRO, please correct me, it's just it's

594
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,640
you're sharing the facilities. So like

595
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,559
the impact is different on it's not it's

596
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:06,080
not like you can have like two or three

597
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,039
or four people in that one unit. You're

598
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:11,360
it's a single, you know, just one person

599
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,799
and we're sharing one um that space. The

600
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,039
person that bought my previous house on

601
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:18,799
Little Street did this. She it was a

602
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,039
three-bedroom house and she rented out

603
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,559
the two bedrooms

604
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:25,279
>> in a residential neighborhood. So,

605
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,520
>> I mean, if she had a big house in which

606
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,520
we do have a lot of big old houses that

607
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,320
have several bedrooms, maybe even more

608
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:33,760
than five,

609
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,200
>> and they all share the same kitchen and

610
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,320
you're not going to have the same

611
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,039
impact, I think. And that's the way I

612
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:42,799
see it. I see what Lindsay is trying to

613
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:45,360
do is create like less of a stigma

614
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,440
around it. And I I just don't think it

615
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,039
compares to five unit plus because five

616
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:54,559
units you could have 10 to 20 plus

617
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:58,000
people living in that area where

618
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,880
>> a five SRO or co-l livingiving you could

619
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,039
have five maybe six people living in

620
00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:06,240
that that that place. What I think

621
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,960
>> I would I would definitely agree with

622
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,520
what Dina is saying about what I'm

623
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,080
trying to do and about the difference

624
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,760
between five units and SRO's is that I

625
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,360
think that part of what I was trying to

626
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,880
get at with the research and work that I

627
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,240
did was that we seem to be putting a

628
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,600
particular type of sort of almost

629
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,960
roommate type situation into an overly

630
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,279
um

631
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:39,679
policed for lack of a better word

632
00:27:39,679 --> 00:27:43,679
category when we don't do that in other

633
00:27:43,679 --> 00:27:47,279
situations where in fact the same thing

634
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:50,720
may functionally be happening.

635
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760
Um and so like for example I mean

636
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,679
correct me if I'm wrong but if I had a

637
00:27:55,679 --> 00:27:58,640
10bedroom house I don't is there any

638
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,320
limit on the number of roommates I could

639
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,520
have? No, we don't regulate that.

640
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,919
>> Yeah. So, like that to me is sort of

641
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:09,919
what I was getting at with some of this

642
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:13,840
was trying to note the fact that we give

643
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080
people who perhaps own single family

644
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,360
houses certain privileges to do them and

645
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:24,080
occupy them in a way that we don't apply

646
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,760
um to other types of structures um that

647
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,919
may be really serving the same purpose.

648
00:28:31,919 --> 00:28:34,399
um but sharing a lot of the same

649
00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:39,590
services in the same way.

650
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,960
» Yeah, I was just going to say before

651
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,640
that I think what Tom was getting at is

652
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,960
that any place that we're already

653
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600
permitting five unit plus building,

654
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,279
we're talking about also permitting

655
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:50,640
things that are going to have less

656
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,320
impact than that. So there's no reason

657
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,039
why really we wouldn't permit that. Bird

658
00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:56,720
force shouldn't.

659
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:57,679
Yeah.

660
00:28:57,679 --> 00:29:01,039
>> I just um I do want to say to Lindsay's

661
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:04,240
point like we do not like there's a lot

662
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,399
of house sharing that goes on. So it's

663
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:07,840
co-l livingiving arrangements, it's

664
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,600
roommates, it's whatever.

665
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,720
>> We are not regulating that. We we don't

666
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,440
go looking for it. So I just want to

667
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,919
clarify like you know we're not we know

668
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:19,520
what goes on.

669
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,360
>> That's not something we're looking to

670
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,360
regulate. These are kind of applying to

671
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,600
new developments. If somebody comes in

672
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,799
with a business plan to to operate SRO

673
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:30,559
kind of thing, that that's when it would

674
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:31,840
apply. But

675
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,200
>> I just want to clarify, we're not

676
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,360
looking for

677
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:42,149
pleasing it in any way like that.

678
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:47,669
It just

679
00:29:47,679 --> 00:29:49,360
I would have liked I mean I bring up the

680
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,760
multi-unit five and up. Um it would be

681
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,200
helpful. I could have done it myself in

682
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,960
preparation, but to have that added to

683
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,279
the table.

684
00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:59,279
>> Yeah, I made a note. I can add that to

685
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:01,200
the table so we can look at it next time

686
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,279
and folks can see how that compares too

687
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:05,360
if you're interested in that

688
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,360
>> because it'd be you know it'd be odd for

689
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,000
me if there's some districts and I can't

690
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,200
hold them off the top of my head but

691
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,320
let's say the rural or rural residential

692
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,720
>> I don't know if that applies but um

693
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,039
maybe or waterfront I don't know where

694
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:22,399
maybe multi-unit five and up is

695
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:25,360
>> conditional or let's say not allowed but

696
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,559
then like a 30 unit SRO might be because

697
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:30,399
of the changes we're proposing. It seems

698
00:30:30,399 --> 00:30:31,840
like

699
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,000
>> unless then unless we reconsider adding

700
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,919
the multi, you know, five and up, but if

701
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:39,039
we decided that that's too much impact,

702
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:41,279
but then we allow a 30 unit SRO, it

703
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,039
seems not be consistent because an SRO

704
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:46,640
is not only it would not only be 30

705
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,919
people, but it would also at least

706
00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:50,559
conventionally be be like a big blocky

707
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:53,279
building that may not fit

708
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:59,350
the the character of the area maybe.

709
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,520
Can I um

710
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,640
>> it seems like based on the previous

711
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,520
conversation earlier conversations that

712
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,360
can we all agree that single room

713
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,720
occupancy is not well placed in other

714
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,200
specialized residential structures and

715
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,320
that should come out with its own

716
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,720
definition or like however which way

717
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,039
this goes but I don't know. Is there any

718
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:24,559
agreement that that needs to come out of

719
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:26,000
other specialized residential

720
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,039
structures?

721
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:28,960
>> Yes, it doesn't seem well placaced to me

722
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,630
in that category.

723
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,039
» I I have no objection to that. I'm I'm

724
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:37,760
not sure that it's necessary really, but

725
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,440
I have no objection to it happening

726
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:46,000
either. So, if you feel that um it's better placed in its own category,

727
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,799
I'll support that.

728
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:52,640
>> On the LBCS, which is planning.org, or

729
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,080
website. Um they break down other

730
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,039
specialized residential structures into

731
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,080
1310 is barracks, 1320 is dormitories. I

732
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,279
won't say the number for all of them. So

733
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:06,240
barracks, dormitories, hotels, motel,

734
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,480
and tourist courts. We've already pulled

735
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:09,600
that out

736
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,399
>> in our ranks in a second section.

737
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:15,840
>> Um single room occupancies.

738
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,760
>> How are they defined in SRO? Could you

739
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,480
read that?

740
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,640
>> Yeah, in just a moment. um temporary

741
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,310
structures, tents.

742
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,159
They're really um and

743
00:32:26,159 --> 00:32:27,679
>> because it's a possibility,

744
00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:28,320
>> right?

745
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,120
>> Yeah.

746
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,799
>> Don't we have shelters in our death?

747
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,200
>> Yes. So, they don't include shelters in

748
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,159
theirs and they have their last um

749
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:38,559
edition 1360 is other structurally

750
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:41,039
converted buildings.

751
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:43,440
>> I think it's very problematic to include

752
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,679
single room occupancies with things like

753
00:32:45,679 --> 00:32:48,080
homeless shelters and dormitories and

754
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,919
barracks. They're not the same. As

755
00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:52,720
someone pointed out earlier, people

756
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,559
>> may very well live in an SRO for,

757
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:58,399
you know, decades.

758
00:32:58,399 --> 00:33:00,480
>> Yeah. I mean, there is something in the

759
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,519
I guess it's in the I'm not sure what

760
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:06,000
level of the LCBS. There's like

761
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,360
basically residential uses and there's

762
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,559
transient uses and an SRO would not be

763
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:15,200
transient like that is somebody's

764
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,039
resident. So

765
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:19,279
>> um so the definition it's a few

766
00:33:19,279 --> 00:33:21,919
sentences of single room occupancy is

767
00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:24,399
historically many hotels and motel are

768
00:33:24,399 --> 00:33:27,840
converted SRO's even new SRO buildings

769
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,519
are structurally no different from

770
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,240
hotels but many have small cooking

771
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,880
facilities whether independent or common

772
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,360
and other amenities not associated with

773
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,320
hotel SRO may also have building code

774
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,159
specifications different from hotels and

775
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:44,080
motel for tracking the number of

776
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,600
occupants guest rooms or beds use

777
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,039
additional attributes or fields and then

778
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:48,399
they use database.

779
00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:49,679
>> That's an awful definition.

780
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:51,833
>> Yeah,

781
00:33:51,833 --> 00:33:54,789
[laughter]

782
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:56,960
» that's not a definition I ever want to

783
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,480
use. I mean, and I think it it points to

784
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,240
the, you know, the proposal of a

785
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,919
co-living

786
00:34:03,919 --> 00:34:06,880
category because these are dated and in

787
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,480
br you know, that's talking about New

788
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,520
York City and LA and, you know, it's not

789
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,119
talking about the Brattleboroough scale

790
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:14,639
of development. Now, I guess you know,

791
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:16,960
Hotel Brooks could have been an SRO at

792
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,879
some point, but you know, it's not

793
00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:20,720
really our scale.

794
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:22,399
>> I I mean, I don't know about that

795
00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:24,639
because the the experience that I have

796
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,560
that I'm comparing it to is largely that

797
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,800
of living in Ocean City, New Jersey,

798
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,599
>> which has a number of SRO's, rooming

799
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:34,560
houses, boarding houses, hotels. Mhm.

800
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,960
>> Um I mean I look at these definitions

801
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,560
and I don't I don't really feel like

802
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,399
they need to be that distinct from each

803
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:44,159
other, but if other commissioners feel

804
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,440
that they do, I would support that. Um

805
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,679
and and maybe it is that you know what

806
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,520
we really need to do is sit down and

807
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,679
make new definitions of these. I'm

808
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:56,480
perfectly comfortable with that, too.

809
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,320
I mean certainly a a single room

810
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,320
occupancy building is definitely

811
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,560
different than a barracks or a dormatory

812
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,880
or a homeless shelter, you know. Um

813
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,720
so if we feel that we want to have those

814
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,160
definitions, let's write them.

815
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,800
Well, and I think what Sue was saying

816
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,680
was, can we just at least to start with

817
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,720
just take single room occupancies out of

818
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,359
other specialized residential structures

819
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:27,040
category? And I think that what I'm

820
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,119
hearing from people is that that at the

821
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:31,599
very least makes sense because you just

822
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,320
said that it's not like those other

823
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,240
which of these things is not like the

824
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,880
other and the most obvious one is SRO's

825
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,599
is not like the others in that list. So

826
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:47,040
I think that's at least a starting point

827
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,280
is taking it out of that.

828
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:56,160
>> Yeah. I'm just wondering if as like as a legal matter, do these need to have

829
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,240
different definitions in order to get

830
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,079
them built or permitted and in use?

831
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:03,760
>> When you say these, what are you talking

832
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,160
about? All the various

833
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:06,800
>> of buildings,

834
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,880
>> all the the

835
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,680
>> like is there something like legally

836
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,640
distinct in planning that distinguishes

837
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,720
a dormatory from a barracks such that

838
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,079
they would have to have different

839
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:22,870
definitions in the regulations?

840
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,320
» Well, they would fall under other

841
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,560
specialized residential structures. If

842
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,440
they came in, we'd look there and then

843
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,760
we'd say, "Oh, is this a barrack or a

844
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,839
dormatory?" Doesn't really matter. like

845
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:36,320
we'd classify it as one based on the

846
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,560
we'd go to the LBCS I think elsewhere in

847
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,079
this document that says we're using

848
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:42,160
definitions from there and then we'd say

849
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,160
okay it's other specialized residential

850
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,320
structure so therefore it's conditional

851
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,079
>> so that's how we'd use it

852
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:51,440
you know a lot of times there's gray

853
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,200
area we're like which which does it fall

854
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:54,720
under

855
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,520
>> but that's kind like is there enough

856
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,839
gray area in there that this would

857
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:02,000
potentially be a stumbling block for

858
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,640
permitting that such that we need to

859
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,119
have a firmer definition in order to

860
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:08,400
streamline this process.

861
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,040
>> If I may, it allows or separate

862
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,640
definitions allowed for different

863
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,119
treatments, different different

864
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:16,560
permitting, different conditional,

865
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,760
different not approved in different

866
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,240
districts.

867
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:19,760
>> Yeah, that that's what I'm trying to get

868
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,720
at, you know, is is that a lack in our

869
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:24,800
current regulations?

870
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,599
Are you saying are you asking whether we

871
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:29,920
need to have definitions for like

872
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,400
barracks and dormitories and the other

873
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,160
items in that category?

874
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,000
>> Well, well, really all of them.

875
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,599
>> Okay. So, I don't I don't know whether

876
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,440
that's the case or not, but I personally

877
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,400
for this exercise and this activity

878
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,040
would want us to stay focused more on

879
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,560
the stuff that I already did the

880
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,000
research on. and if we can take care of

881
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,480
this and then maybe that's something

882
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,960
that we come back to in the future. But

883
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,359
like I haven't done any study on those

884
00:38:01,359 --> 00:38:04,160
categories. So I don't and I don't think

885
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,400
that we I don't think frankly that

886
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,400
they're as important to focus on as the

887
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,400
ones that I'm focusing on right now

888
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,160
because we are unlikely to have any

889
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,000
barracks or dormitories built in the

890
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800
near future. is we can hope that we will

891
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,880
have perhaps

892
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,920
co-living type spaces built for folks.

893
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,440
>> Yeah. I mean, but all that I'm trying to

894
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,280
get at is that is there something in the

895
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,599
regulations that is preventing SRO's or

896
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:32,400
co-living uh buildings from being built

897
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,280
or permitted and put into use that needs

898
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,880
to be changed.

899
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,359
>> Um

900
00:38:37,359 --> 00:38:38,160
>> well, the point

901
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,720
>> that's hard to answer. I mean, well,

902
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:42,079
part of the point of this is that

903
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:44,320
they're not allowed in some areas where

904
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,880
I think that they should be allowed. So,

905
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,280
yes, there is a problem, at least as far

906
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,680
as I'm concerned, um that they aren't

907
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,680
being allowed in certain areas. And

908
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,200
that's partly because they're being

909
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,160
lumped into this category that is not

910
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,880
entirely suitable for them.

911
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,960
>> Okay. Gotcha.

912
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,440
Although I will say just as a final note

913
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,680
on that subject, I personally am hoping

914
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,920
to see more dormitories get built in

915
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,880
this town, I would really as a long-term

916
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,800
project would really like to see a new

917
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,040
university be built here.

918
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,040
>> That'd be great.

919
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,240
>> UBM [clears throat] needs to share the

920
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:20,720
wealth.

921
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,720
>> Yeah. Branches.

922
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,160
>> Yeah. Yeah.

923
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,760
So,

924
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,040
if I may.

925
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
>> Yep. We're going to pull SRO out of this

926
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,240
definition.

927
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,480
Um

928
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,589
and then um

929
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,320
so um you know we could play around with

930
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,680
this what it would look like if it was

931
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,839
the co-l livingiving. I mean I think I

932
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:49,839
don't I went through what Lindsay

933
00:39:49,839 --> 00:39:51,920
proposed in terms of impact from

934
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,760
different uses and how they should be

935
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,440
treated similarly. I'm pretty

936
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,040
comfortable with that. You might all

937
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,359
want some more time. Um with that

938
00:40:01,359 --> 00:40:05,510
um

939
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,400
yeah um

940
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,880
there are some followons like if we did

941
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,400
a co-l livingiving it's going to affect

942
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,640
some other if we if we had a definition

943
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,440
for co-living it would be um

944
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,520
you know we'd have to change some of our

945
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,040
special standards in section chapter 3.

946
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,480
um if you went that route, if you if we

947
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,800
stick with and we add a definition for

948
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,440
single room occupancy and a definition

949
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,280
for

950
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,119
um the rooming and boarding house. Um we

951
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:41,760
could we could do it that way. Lindsay,

952
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,240
I'm sorry if I'm going off script from

953
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:44,960
your

954
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,079
>> No, I think so. You're talking about the

955
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,160
logistics of how things would change in

956
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,800
the land development regulations. Yeah.

957
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,880
And basically I knew that those would be

958
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,400
things and I deliberately didn't foc on

959
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,280
that in the memo figuring that if we

960
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,160
moved forward you all would help tell us

961
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,000
the best way to sort of reach the

962
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,760
general consensus that we had gotten to

963
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,079
um as far as the actual logistics of how

964
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:19,670
it would look in the ledrs. Yeah,

965
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,480
» I'm I'm open to seeing a unified, if

966
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,160
that's the right word, category called

967
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,319
living, but

968
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:28,800
um I don't want to but my inclination is

969
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,560
just to keep them separate and just

970
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,960
figure out how to treat SRO's and

971
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,359
rooming houses and like congregate

972
00:41:35,359 --> 00:41:38,400
living um all separately. Um, I'm open

973
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,040
to seeing these details worked out a bit

974
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,200
or a draft, but I mean, at least as far

975
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,720
as I'm concerned, at this point in time,

976
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:46,160
I don't want to

977
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,480
>> ask people to do additional work that at

978
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:49,839
this point in time I don't really

979
00:41:49,839 --> 00:41:50,960
support.

980
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,000
>> Um, because I I think SRO's are quite

981
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000
different than rooming houses. Maybe in

982
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,480
the modern era, SRO's aren't different

983
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,680
than rooming houses, but I Yeah,

984
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,359
actually there was an SRO for a little

985
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:05,760
period of time. Wasn't Holton home a

986
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,440
style for a long period or or

987
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,920
>> uh it was yeah I mean essentially it was it was permitted under another

988
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,680
other specialized residential

989
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,680
structure. Um yeah I think we considered

990
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,359
it an SRO. It was um

991
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:23,280
uh traveling nursing housing and

992
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:23,599
doctors.

993
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:25,280
>> And I guess one could look at that and

994
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,400
say that's a home. It's a mansion and it

995
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,480
could be rooming houses inside or it

996
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,800
could be a rooming house with rooms

997
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,800
rented inside.

998
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,560
>> I don't know who would own that and do

999
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,079
that but but maybe um so I don't know. I

1000
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:42,079
mean in in the like the conventional

1001
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,319
definition of an SRO historically what

1002
00:42:44,319 --> 00:42:46,000
it is and

1003
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:46,720
>> I think

1004
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:48,319
>> difference but if there's if there's big

1005
00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:51,119
gray areas then I or a lot of overlap in

1006
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:52,880
reality and in the present day and in

1007
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,000
Brattleboro then I'm open to seeing them

1008
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,800
unified but they do seem different to me

1009
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,920
at least by their definitions. I mean,

1010
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,240
obviously since I proposed it, I'm most

1011
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:08,079
in favor of unifying them, but in um

1012
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:11,280
bullet point D, I think goes to your

1013
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,400
point, Tom, about the poss if they

1014
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,359
aren't unified, then what is the other

1015
00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:19,520
option? And

1016
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,599
um you know, so I did sort of

1017
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:25,599
>> put that forward. if if we didn't want

1018
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:29,119
to unify them. That said, if we

1019
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:32,960
don't choose to combine um SRO's and

1020
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,800
rooming and boarding houses, I'd still

1021
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,200
really like to see the name of single

1022
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,160
residents occupancies changed, which I

1023
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,280
don't think I I put in the memo, but I I

1024
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,720
would like I don't think that that term

1025
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:51,359
is as helpful and I think it elicits

1026
00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:53,280
certain biases. So, I would prefer to

1027
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,839
see maybe it could just be called co-l

1028
00:43:55,839 --> 00:43:57,680
livingiving and we could still have

1029
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,880
Romanian boarding houses. Um, but if

1030
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,800
they didn't come together, I' I'd still

1031
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,640
like to change the name if possible.

1032
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,640
That'd be my preference. Ju

1033
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,720
>> just before I moved here, I was living

1034
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,359
in Seattle and what they were generally

1035
00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:13,599
using uh to describe buildings like that

1036
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:17,589
was micro apartments.

1037
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:23,599
» Sure. Yeah. I think almost anything is better. I mean, using the the term

1038
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:25,839
flop house would be worse, but I doubt

1039
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:27,280
that any of us are going to suggest

1040
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,319
that. So, you know, I'm I'm open to what

1041
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:33,359
the actual term is. I just like it to be

1042
00:44:33,359 --> 00:44:36,480
nicer and more modern.

1043
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,040
>> I I would not consider an SRO to be a

1044
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,319
slop flop. [laughter]

1045
00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:44,560
>> I'm just I'm sort of laughing because I,

1046
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,800
you know, in my early 20s, I lived in a

1047
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,560
place that could reasonably be called a

1048
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,200
flop house.

1049
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,520
I would propose that we could just roll

1050
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,079
it into the multi-unit five and up. But

1051
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,640
if I'm hearing from, you know, from Dena

1052
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,040
and maybe others earlier that, well, an

1053
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,119
SRO has a lower impact.

1054
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:03,520
>> Yeah.

1055
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,240
>> Like a a 10-unit SRO has a significantly

1056
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,640
lower impact than a 10-unit apartment

1057
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,880
building. Well, then then maybe we don't

1058
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:11,760
lump it in there.

1059
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,839
>> Yeah. No, I I think that definition of

1060
00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:16,640
multi-unit uh building is very much

1061
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,720
different than an SRO. Mhm.

1062
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:19,920
>> I mean that you're talking about in the

1063
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,670
heart and phil says these tests.

1064
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,760
» I'm happy to change the name.

1065
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,880
>> I didn't.

1066
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,400
>> Yeah.

1067
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,960
>> No, modernize it. And

1068
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,040
>> yeah, I I personally do not feel that

1069
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,920
the name SRO is a negative has a

1070
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,720
negative connotation for me, but I'm

1071
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:42,720
happy for people to use other terms if

1072
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:46,400
it has negative connotations for them.

1073
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,270
>> Great.

1074
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,079
So, how do you want to move forward? Do

1075
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:57,280
you want Lindsay? Do you have more time

1076
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,960
you can we can work with you?

1077
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,720
>> Well, I think that um I appreciate

1078
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:05,040
everyone's feedback tonight and I think

1079
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,040
that it's been really good. I am

1080
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,720
cognizant of the fact that we're missing

1081
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:14,240
a couple of commission members. Um,

1082
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:18,400
so I guess

1083
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,960
my thought is to maybe come back to the

1084
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,200
next meeting

1085
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,720
um,

1086
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,640
and see if anyone has any additional

1087
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,359
comments that haven't already been said.

1088
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,200
Unless people feel, you know, I mean, we

1089
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,359
are the ones here this evening. So if

1090
00:46:41,359 --> 00:46:44,400
people feel like yes, right now I could

1091
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640
go ahead and move forward with renaming

1092
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,000
SRO's co-l livingiving and starting to

1093
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,400
have the planning staff look over item

1094
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,119
1D and seeing how that would play out in

1095
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:02,800
the LUDRS, then you know I'd be very

1096
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,960
happy to make that motion and and have

1097
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,040
planning staff start to look over that

1098
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,400
so that we could start to move forward.

1099
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,560
and then I guess if the other

1100
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,720
commissioners had questions or issues

1101
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,480
then you know it's still open to

1102
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,910
discussion. Nothing's final yet.

1103
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
» Can we just That sounds good to me. Um

1104
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,480
can we just quickly review the list of

1105
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,680
uses that you thought were comparable in

1106
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,240
impact to SRO and the list of uses you

1107
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:37,359
thought were higher impact because that

1108
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:39,280
>> Yeah. So let's

1109
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,520
>> how the decision decisions are being

1110
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:42,480
made of.

1111
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,480
>> Yeah.

1112
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,720
>> Um

1113
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:59,910
so I think that that was

1114
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:01,760
I think that that's further down in my

1115
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,040
notes so it's harder for me to

1116
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,359
Okay. So, I thought that

1117
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:11,119
um

1118
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:15,200
single resident occupancies had um a

1119
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,280
similar impact to boarding and rooming

1120
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,000
and congregate living.

1121
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,800
Um

1122
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,200
and I thought that

1123
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,200
>> you have bed and breakfast or in in

1124
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:29,839
there

1125
00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:34,400
>> that's later. So I I thought in my

1126
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,960
earlier notes, so let me scan down to

1127
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,800
see after I receive staff

1128
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:46,309
input.

1129
00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:48,559
» Well, can you go with the one that's

1130
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,839
like your proposal before us?

1131
00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:54,640
>> Well, I was looking back at my history

1132
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,440
because I don't think so.

1133
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,839
I thought that functionally similar uses

1134
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:01,680
were boarding and rooming, congregate

1135
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,400
living, and SRO's and

1136
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,040
that if one of those is permitted in a

1137
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,240
district, then all should be permitted.

1138
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,040
Now, we're taking out SRO's from other

1139
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,880
specialized, so it would be separate

1140
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,839
from that. Um,

1141
00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:22,720
and then I thought that if boarding

1142
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,960
room, congregate living or an SRO were

1143
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,400
conditionally allowed in a district,

1144
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,040
then all should be allowed. And if a

1145
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,000
higher impact use, which I defined as

1146
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,440
retirement, assisted living, BMBB in or

1147
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,680
skilled nursing is per permitted in a

1148
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,520
district, then boarding and rooming,

1149
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,599
congregate living, and SRO should also

1150
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,950
be permitted.

1151
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,559
And then lastly, if a higher impact use,

1152
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:52,800
retirement, assisted living, BMBB,

1153
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,359
skilled nursing, is conditionally

1154
00:49:55,359 --> 00:49:57,359
allowed in a district, then all of the

1155
00:49:57,359 --> 00:50:00,000
lower impact uses, boarding, rooming,

1156
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,079
congregate living, and SRO should be

1157
00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:05,440
conditionally allowed.

1158
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,800
>> Full agreement with all four of those

1159
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,200
points.

1160
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,680
I would ask that um when this comes back

1161
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,240
to us that the multi-unit five and up

1162
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:20,069
get gets added in there one of those

1163
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:24,079
you know because it'll be part of the table of comparisons I think is what

1164
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:26,240
we talked about.

1165
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:27,760
>> Um

1166
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,000
I'm not sure that

1167
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,880
retirement housing is is a higher end.

1168
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,480
The only retirement housing I know in

1169
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,079
Bridleboro might be the Black Mountain

1170
00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:37,760
Estates,

1171
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,640
which is basically just single family,

1172
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,920
single unit attached dwellings in like a

1173
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,359
neighborhood.

1174
00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:49,040
>> Well, to me it's higher impact because

1175
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,480
they all have their own bathrooms,

1176
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,280
kitchens, and things of that nature. So,

1177
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,359
that was primarily how I was defining

1178
00:50:55,359 --> 00:50:58,160
things like that. And so to me that

1179
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,160
could be a lot of units [snorts] in in

1180
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,079
one place. I mean some retirement

1181
00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:08,079
housing communities and some places are

1182
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:12,400
hundreds and even thousands of units.

1183
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,040
>> That's a kind of a funny one. It's like

1184
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:15,839
>> is weird.

1185
00:51:15,839 --> 00:51:18,000
>> Is it even necessary?

1186
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,800
>> It's not very well defined.

1187
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,839
>> Yeah. So, I'm looking at the the table

1188
00:51:23,839 --> 00:51:26,960
in Lindsay's notes and where where under

1189
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,880
hotel or motel and it says it's

1190
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,480
conditional in village center and

1191
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,720
neighborhood center. And I'm I'm

1192
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,079
wondering why that is. A lot of my

1193
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:37,520
wonderment has to do with the fact that

1194
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,280
I don't remember exactly where the

1195
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,640
village center is and where the

1196
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:41,760
neighborhood center is.

1197
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,960
>> Yeah. So, Village Center is basically

1198
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,000
the bridge at Melrose Street is like the

1199
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,880
entrance to it probably up to like I

1200
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,760
think Green Leaf Street um is the

1201
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,160
village area and it goes as deep as the

1202
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,440
Chalet property and I think it's been

1203
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,559
extended to include Melrose Terrace, the

1204
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:05,359
former Melrose Terrace. So, so that's

1205
00:52:05,359 --> 00:52:07,359
West Brattleleboroough Village District.

1206
00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:11,119
And then the neighborhood centers are

1207
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,040
um

1208
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,720
they're out in West Brattleboroough. So,

1209
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:16,640
it's the area just past that along Route

1210
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,480
9 that goes to Sunset Lake. And then

1211
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,200
there's um the area from the Veterans

1212
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,400
Bridge up to the Royal Plaza. That's

1213
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,800
neighborhood center meant to be smaller

1214
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,000
scale kind of walk pedestrian oriented.

1215
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,839
And then there's another one on Canal

1216
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:38,319
Street um which goes uh basically

1217
00:52:38,319 --> 00:52:41,520
uh like

1218
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,440
just say Fair View to the interstate.

1219
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,480
>> So apparently Dan's [clears throat]

1220
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,640
trying to log in

1221
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,549
>> really

1222
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:55,599
» I have not seen him pop up but could be

1223
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:58,800
because I'm st sharing.

1224
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,400
He should try again. And I haven't

1225
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,760
gotten notification that he's trying to

1226
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,880
get in

1227
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:11,109
that I know of.

1228
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:13,359
» Is he using the right link?

1229
00:53:13,359 --> 00:53:17,920
>> So I can add the five unit to the table

1230
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,599
too so that people can see that because

1231
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:21,200
it sounds like people are interested in

1232
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,720
that and then I can share with the

1233
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:27,920
staff. Does staff to start looking at

1234
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,960
what's proposed in D and thinking about

1235
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,040
the actual logistics of that? Do you

1236
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,040
need a motion from us or is us

1237
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,040
expressing our general agreement and

1238
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,359
opinion here tonight sufficient?

1239
00:53:39,359 --> 00:53:40,960
>> That's sufficient.

1240
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,200
>> Great. We'll start looking at that and

1241
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,359
we can start looking at um a definition

1242
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:49,119
for

1243
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:50,880
co-l livingiving or whatever.

1244
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,040
>> Okay. You know, like I said, um, some

1245
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:56,640
staff feel really strongly that we

1246
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,280
should stick with the LBCS, so maybe we

1247
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,960
can find something in there, but their

1248
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,280
definition of an SRO was not something I

1249
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,480
would go with. So, we might deviate. I

1250
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,559
don't know.

1251
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:10,160
And so, I can work with you, Lindsay, on

1252
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,589
that.

1253
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:16,160
» Okay, then. I mean, I'm satisfied with

1254
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,680
the discussion we had tonight. I don't

1255
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,079
know if anyone else needs to say more on

1256
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:22,400
the topic, but I'm happy [snorts] to

1257
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,079
move on and do that work on the table

1258
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:27,760
and come back next month.

1259
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,559
>> Sounds good to me.

1260
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,839
>> Great. Yeah. And thank you, Lindsay. So,

1261
00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:39,589
thanks for looking into this works and

1262
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:42,880
» Okay, moving on to the sidewalks

1263
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,520
session. Um

1264
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,400
last time we talked about how we would

1265
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,160
like to work on this kind of um look

1266
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,520
into developing and enacting so to speak

1267
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,200
a multi-pronged sort of initiative to

1268
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,800
hopefully improve the conditioning of

1269
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,480
the sidewalks as far as upkeep,

1270
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,559
maintenance, snow removal, etc. And um

1271
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:10,640
we t staff and to both think about this

1272
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,359
and with their expertise knowledge and

1273
00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:17,760
um kind of sketch out plan

1274
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,520
and have people see

1275
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,950
>> very detailed.

1276
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,440
» So

1277
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:26,160
do you want to

1278
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,200
>> Yeah. Do you want me to walk you through

1279
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,000
it? And I apologize you many of you may

1280
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,440
not have seen it because it did come

1281
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,359
today. So, um, I'm proposing a work plan

1282
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:37,680
to improve pedestrian safety,

1283
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,680
accessibility, and yearround mobility by

1284
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,520
updating the sidewalk ordinance to

1285
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,359
reflect current best practice and legal

1286
00:55:45,359 --> 00:55:46,960
requirements.

1287
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,960
Evaluating existing winter sidewalk

1288
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,640
maintenance responsibilities,

1289
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,799
enforcement mechanisms, and operational

1290
00:55:52,799 --> 00:55:54,799
practices, and developing and

1291
00:55:54,799 --> 00:55:56,400
implementing a public information

1292
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,079
campaign to increase awareness of

1293
00:55:58,079 --> 00:55:59,760
sidewalk maintenance obligations and

1294
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,760
pedestrian safety.

1295
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,920
Um, so the proposed I see this as kind

1296
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,400
of taking a year to complete. I mean, if

1297
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,079
the planning commission is going to want

1298
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:12,160
to make recommendations about how winter

1299
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,280
maintenance is done, like

1300
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,280
we're going to need support to do that

1301
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,799
um to take something like this to the

1302
00:56:18,799 --> 00:56:20,880
select board. So, as you all know,

1303
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,160
winter maintenance is now um basically

1304
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,760
the town does the plow routes, the

1305
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,280
business or property owners do the

1306
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,920
downtown area and there's lots of

1307
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,640
sidewalks that are not being taken care

1308
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,920
of. So, if we are proposing anything

1309
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,319
that you know increases the amount that

1310
00:56:38,319 --> 00:56:40,400
this town is sidewalk plowing, there's

1311
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,680
obviously there's budget to consider. If

1312
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,760
we are going to make any recommendations

1313
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,480
that people people are now responsible

1314
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,960
for doing their sidewalks, that is a big

1315
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,079
cultural shift for this town, although

1316
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:56,240
it's normal everywhere else, right?

1317
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,520
>> So, um, so I really thought we needed to

1318
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,400
like go through everything. I did have a

1319
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,200
conversation with the DPW director and

1320
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,119
he was like,

1321
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:09,280
"Yeah, that's fine." He's like, "It

1322
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,760
needs to be looked at." and um you know

1323
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,440
particularly you know in areas around

1324
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,160
enforcement and and stuff definitely you

1325
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,559
know obstructions and sidewalks and that

1326
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:21,200
kind of thing it be good to improve

1327
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,920
those. Um, so the first task would be to

1328
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,319
look at our exist existing regulations,

1329
00:57:28,319 --> 00:57:30,079
the sidewalk ordinance, maybe anything

1330
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:32,720
the zoning is saying, um, public works

1331
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,559
policies, snow and ice, uh, removal,

1332
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:38,720
enforcement procedures, and anything

1333
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,240
that the charter says, which I don't

1334
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,240
think is much, but they might talk about

1335
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,119
traffic safety committee in there. Um,

1336
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:47,280
and then collect background information.

1337
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,520
So the the inventory maps which I you

1338
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,280
had requested some change to the map

1339
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,319
that you had seen. Um maybe pedestrian

1340
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:56,240
crash data.

1341
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,880
Um some of this was also based on you

1342
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,280
know what what you might look if we were

1343
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,960
putting together a sidewalk maintenance

1344
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,079
plan. And DPW is actually working with a

1345
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:08,160
consultant. So, this next piece, the ADA

1346
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,079
transition plan, they um are actually

1347
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:13,839
having a consultant who's looking at the

1348
00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:15,839
sidewalks and identifying the areas

1349
00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:17,359
where there's missing ramps and that

1350
00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:20,000
kind of thing. So, that report, you

1351
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,599
know, might be the end of the year. We

1352
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:23,440
might get some information before budget

1353
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,839
season um that they're hoping to have

1354
00:58:25,839 --> 00:58:26,960
when they're putting their budget

1355
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,839
together. And so, yeah, the deliverable

1356
00:58:29,839 --> 00:58:32,240
there for this set tasks would be

1357
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,920
existing conditions inventory. Um phase

1358
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,359
two would be researching and um best

1359
00:58:39,359 --> 00:58:41,680
practices. So looking at other Vermont

1360
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:43,280
municipalities, looking at other

1361
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:44,880
downtowns,

1362
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,440
um comparable New England communities,

1363
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,680
uh maybe even tourist destinations that

1364
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,559
you know you identify that have good

1365
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:56,160
practices. Um we could also do a legal

1366
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,240
review. will probably figure out what

1367
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,200
the town's obligations are, what ADA,

1368
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,240
um, accessibility requirements are, all

1369
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,440
those kind of things. Um,

1370
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,520
and then, uh, assess public works. So,

1371
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,000
what are their current operations,

1372
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,000
equipment capacity, staffing levels,

1373
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,000
budget, um, known problem locations,

1374
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,520
uh, and any future maintenance

1375
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,760
responsibilities. So here I'm thinking

1376
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,520
about we add a sidewalk on Putney road

1377
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,000
like or a multi-use path. Um

1378
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,520
state's not going to maintain that. So

1379
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,280
the town is So I think as we're planning

1380
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,720
this forward, we should be thinking

1381
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,640
about the future sidewalks that we'll be

1382
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,040
taking on. So that's one of them. New

1383
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,520
sidewalk on um Route 142 that's going to

1384
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,520
go to the bridge once we get the rail

1385
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,799
railroad clearance. So, um, those kind

1386
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:53,599
of considerations just just to know that

1387
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:55,680
there are some expanding obligations

1388
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,760
that we're going to have.

1389
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,640
>> Um, and then report out on that and

1390
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,559
compare ordinances.

1391
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:05,599
Um, phase three would be, you know,

1392
01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:07,599
really digging into the winter sidewalk.

1393
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:09,200
Again, this might come up under the

1394
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,440
other assessments, but but then also

1395
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,079
having stakeholder interviews because

1396
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:17,119
any change there would really change. um

1397
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:19,440
maybe evaluate maybe this winter there

1398
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,119
can be some time out evaluating areas um

1399
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,040
particularly the school roots. You know

1400
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,359
there is some method to the roots that

1401
01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:29,359
they're plowing but there you know

1402
01:00:29,359 --> 01:00:31,040
talking to school officials and others

1403
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,720
and figuring out where there's there's

1404
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,480
problems um accessibility barriers. You

1405
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,400
know, we know that the maintenance

1406
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,160
happens in the downtown, the property

1407
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:41,839
owners are shoveling and whatnot, but

1408
01:00:41,839 --> 01:00:43,440
then we also know crosswalks aren't

1409
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,160
necessarily open for people to cross at

1410
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,799
the crosswalks. Um, and so then

1411
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:51,440
analyzing policy alternatives um for the

1412
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,920
winter maintenance and then public

1413
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,240
engagement. So, you know, that could

1414
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,319
happen earlier or it could happen when

1415
01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:00,400
we have enough information. So,

1416
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,720
community survey, workshops, focus

1417
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,680
groups, anything like that.

1418
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,480
Then um staff could draft ordinance

1419
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,880
changes. Um we could present that to the

1420
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,599
select board and uh ordinances are

1421
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:15,599
passed with two hearings, two readings

1422
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:18,400
and then they they can vote on them. So

1423
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:19,839
planning commission I think would be

1424
01:01:19,839 --> 01:01:21,520
involved with those hearings with the

1425
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,680
select board. It's the select board's

1426
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,400
obligation though. And then uh from

1427
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,160
there could be a public information and

1428
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,720
education campaign about um you know

1429
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,799
that that could also be happening now

1430
01:01:32,799 --> 01:01:35,119
about people's responsibilities while

1431
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:37,599
this project's going on. Maybe we could

1432
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:39,839
see if we could get um some help from

1433
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:42,960
the communications coordinator to put

1434
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,280
something in the newsletter,

1435
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,359
do social media blasts and whatnot. I

1436
01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:50,079
mean definitely um we try to get stuff

1437
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:52,559
out there particularly with the change

1438
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:56,400
in daylight. um to improve safety for

1439
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,079
everybody, but you know, maybe there's

1440
01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:02,160
something for winter maintenance that often doesn't go out.

1441
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,960
So, that's the proposal. Um you know,

1442
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,319
staff is pretty we're pretty busy. Um

1443
01:02:08,319 --> 01:02:09,920
we'll be able to support some of this,

1444
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,839
but it's not going to be a completely

1445
01:02:11,839 --> 01:02:14,240
staff-driven initiative. if you the

1446
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,680
planning commission decides something

1447
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,920
that you want to undertake, we're going

1448
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,319
to need um assistance in doing some of

1449
01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:23,119
this research and um conducting some of

1450
01:02:23,119 --> 01:02:28,390
these activities. So

1451
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,079
um and this doesn't touch on traffic

1452
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:32,240
safety committee because I'm not really

1453
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,000
sure how to weave that in. This does get

1454
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,480
at public information ordinance, winter

1455
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,000
maintenance and stuff. Um I wasn't quite

1456
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,440
couldn't really wrap my head around um

1457
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,359
you know traffic safety committee

1458
01:02:45,359 --> 01:02:47,599
purview. Um I didn't spend enough time

1459
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:52,720
with that ordinance although I know it is pretty heavily leaning towards

1460
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,119
parking and intersections and roads and

1461
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:57,520
stuff but we definitely the traffic

1462
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,079
safety committee I do staff that and we

1463
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:04,240
do um deal with sidewalks and we take

1464
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:06,480
safety action complaints on sidewalk

1465
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,520
conditions. In fact, I got one today um

1466
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,440
and sent it along to public works for

1467
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,760
enforcement.

1468
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,400
>> I don't Yeah, I mean, yeah,

1469
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,000
>> kind of in some ways. Um we make the

1470
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,599
traffic safety committee has made

1471
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:24,640
recommendations to public works on what

1472
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,720
should be plowed. Um but it's not an

1473
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,640
regular ongoing thing that we do. As we

1474
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,079
get requests, we might make a

1475
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:34,079
recommendation to them. So there's probably area in there to be

1476
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:35,760
looking at that ordinance. I don't know

1477
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,119
that that needs like the full,

1478
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:42,240
you know, public outreach process and

1479
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,480
whatnot.

1480
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,599
>> So, specifically when you you're talking

1481
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:49,359
about winter maintenance and stuff, but

1482
01:03:49,359 --> 01:03:50,720
what about summer maintenance?

1483
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,839
>> No, same like the vegetation, the signs,

1484
01:03:53,839 --> 01:03:56,079
anything that is impeding

1485
01:03:56,079 --> 01:04:00,069
>> the sidewalks and

1486
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:03,520
yeah, you know, just

1487
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,079
there's got to be some

1488
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:08,319
regulations and hope.

1489
01:04:08,319 --> 01:04:10,079
>> There is, but I think the main thing

1490
01:04:10,079 --> 01:04:12,400
that we all noticed was the the

1491
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,200
deficiency in the snow removal on on on

1492
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:16,720
most sidewalks for private property

1493
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:18,799
owners. But I think as part of part of

1494
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:20,880
this process at the least, we'll be like

1495
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,520
updating and modernizing. And I feel

1496
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:24,880
like in the last few years when I paid

1497
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,920
attention to ordinance uh redoss in

1498
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:29,440
town, it's just like they took one that

1499
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,760
was like this long and made it this long

1500
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,240
now. Not because staff is just trying to

1501
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:35,760
or busy bodies are trying to make things

1502
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,240
confusing. But I think to to make things

1503
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,839
effective and I think as time goes on we

1504
01:04:41,839 --> 01:04:44,240
often realize that to make things

1505
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,880
legally enforcable that they they have

1506
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,960
to be longer than they the brevity that

1507
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,880
they used to be from decades ago.

1508
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,200
>> Yeah. Lindsay

1509
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,760
>> um you mentioned how you would need like

1510
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,480
planning commission support. Is it

1511
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,400
possible with projects like this that

1512
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,280
are bigger? And I know that there's not

1513
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,119
a great likelihood that you would get a

1514
01:05:07,119 --> 01:05:09,359
response, but is it possible to put out

1515
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:13,119
a call to the wider community to ask for

1516
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:15,599
people to serve on like a subcommittee

1517
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:18,640
or something like that or advisory

1518
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,839
committee just to try and add some

1519
01:05:21,839 --> 01:05:25,039
additional voices and to make the work

1520
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,520
lighter?

1521
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,440
Um,

1522
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,359
I don't have a solid answer for you, but

1523
01:05:33,359 --> 01:05:35,599
um, because in the past like

1524
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:38,240
subcommittees have always been planning

1525
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,319
commission members, although at one

1526
01:05:40,319 --> 01:05:42,880
point we did pull from some several

1527
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,280
different committees, but I I think it

1528
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,200
can probably be done. I just want to go

1529
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,119
up through the the channels.

1530
01:05:49,119 --> 01:05:51,440
>> Yeah, maybe I mean maybe subcommittee is

1531
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,200
the wrong word. Like I said, maybe

1532
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,520
>> I think the advisory group or something

1533
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,000
like that where people could

1534
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,480
>> because maybe there are people beyond us

1535
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,559
who are interested in this particular

1536
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:04,720
topic but not necessarily interested in

1537
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:06,160
the other work of the planning

1538
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:07,119
commission.

1539
01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:08,799
>> Well, we can always ask for public

1540
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:10,720
input. Um, in fact,

1541
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:11,039
>> yeah,

1542
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:12,960
>> you know, we do very often ask for

1543
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,359
public input and nobody responds. So,

1544
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:16,400
>> yeah.

1545
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:17,920
That's why I'm interested in

1546
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,135
seeing if anyone will actually do work.

1547
01:06:21,135 --> 01:06:22,960
[laughter]

1548
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:24,319
>> Yeah. And I mean

1549
01:06:24,319 --> 01:06:26,400
>> we need is one or two people, you know.

1550
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:27,599
Well, you know, in the case of the

1551
01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:30,319
health chapter, we were able I mean, you

1552
01:06:30,319 --> 01:06:32,720
really came to us with the idea that or

1553
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,079
Cassandra did with the just

1554
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:39,359
kind of um focused on um

1555
01:06:39,359 --> 01:06:43,839
>> drug use expo or exposure to protecting

1556
01:06:43,839 --> 01:06:46,079
children from um so much prevalence of

1557
01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:48,400
drug use. And then we had this idea for

1558
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,319
the health chapter and kind of connected

1559
01:06:52,319 --> 01:06:53,839
her with Shiloh of the Vermont

1560
01:06:53,839 --> 01:06:56,559
Department of Health and they're doing a

1561
01:06:56,559 --> 01:06:59,280
lot of work around that, you know, per

1562
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:00,000
town.

1563
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,480
>> So I I Lindsay, I think you may be on to

1564
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,720
something like coming to a government

1565
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,119
meeting and like commenting might um

1566
01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:10,720
>> maybe there's more of an ownership

1567
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:11,520
opportunity.

1568
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:12,640
>> There might be a different level of

1569
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,559
motivation for that versus like, hey,

1570
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:16,480
you want to help improve the sidewalks?

1571
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:17,359
of this project.

1572
01:07:17,359 --> 01:07:19,039
>> Yeah.

1573
01:07:19,039 --> 01:07:21,200
>> And that said to like I think that the

1574
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,280
work plan you described is is a good

1575
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,280
one. I would just like to try and see if

1576
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,599
we can get some more help with it before

1577
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:29,839
we all start

1578
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:32,079
>> signing up for it or trying to figure

1579
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:34,079
out if we can fit it into our schedules

1580
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:35,280
because maybe that will help us

1581
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,680
determine how important it is and

1582
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,000
whether how quickly we could or couldn't

1583
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,079
move forward.

1584
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:44,240
Well, we're not going to get this done

1585
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:49,680
before this winter, obviously. So, maybe that um I mean, if the winner was

1586
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,520
if the the beginning of the winter was

1587
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,280
closer, then I'd say we could add that

1588
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,160
on to the public announcement

1589
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,160
>> because it would be nice maybe to put

1590
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,400
out for Seth or whoever put out a public

1591
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:01,280
announcement for

1592
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:02,160
>> Yeah, I think we can.

1593
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,680
>> Yeah. where it's not proposing or saying

1594
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:05,280
that the ordinance has changed at all.

1595
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:06,960
And it doesn't lie about, you know, the

1596
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,960
enforcement or the the obligations on

1597
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,799
private property owners, but it kind of

1598
01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:12,880
reminds people and nudges them and

1599
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,720
motivates them to

1600
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,600
>> to uh to clear the sidewalks and then

1601
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,359
but if you want to get involved, the

1602
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:21,920
planning commission's undertaking this

1603
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:23,839
comprehensive project.

1604
01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:28,080
>> Yeah. Let me just um check in

1605
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:29,600
with the town manager. You know,

1606
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,199
oftentimes the select board is

1607
01:08:31,199 --> 01:08:33,920
appointing people and I'd not want to go

1608
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,759
through such a formal process. I'd love

1609
01:08:35,759 --> 01:08:38,239
to find people that were interested in

1610
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:40,480
working on different tasks in here and

1611
01:08:40,480 --> 01:08:42,640
then, you know, be able to do it a

1612
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,440
little bit more informally, but I don't know. I need to check in with

1613
01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:47,759
that.

1614
01:08:47,759 --> 01:08:49,199
>> You mean the town attorney or town

1615
01:08:49,199 --> 01:08:49,759
manager?

1616
01:08:49,759 --> 01:08:51,839
>> Well, I'll start with the town manager.

1617
01:08:51,839 --> 01:08:53,359
Speak with the town attorney if I need

1618
01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:56,550
him.

1619
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,120
but kind of like a a advisory committee

1620
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,839
or advisory group or I don't know

1621
01:09:01,839 --> 01:09:04,319
interested citizens want to help with a

1622
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:05,920
project.

1623
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,279
So what would just for the sake of our

1624
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,279
what would these citizens or people that

1625
01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:12,480
are interested what would they do to

1626
01:09:12,480 --> 01:09:16,480
just come up with oh this sidewalk on

1627
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:19,359
canal street should be wider should be

1628
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:21,679
this or I you know is that what you're

1629
01:09:21,679 --> 01:09:24,000
looking for is like more input or are

1630
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,960
you looking for just for clarification?

1631
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,359
>> So I think it would be with tasks in

1632
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:31,839
this in this work plan. So maybe there's

1633
01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:34,880
somebody doing research on, you know,

1634
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,199
other downtowns or Vermont communities

1635
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:39,839
and, you know, maybe leading a piece of

1636
01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:42,560
it. That's what I'm thinking. What

1637
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,040
you're what you're mentioning, I mean,

1638
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,440
we've done a lot of planning work with

1639
01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:50,880
the Canal Street plan, with the B bike

1640
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,400
walk plan. Um,

1641
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,199
one thing that the public works director

1642
01:09:57,199 --> 01:09:59,040
and I have been talking about is a need

1643
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,840
to prioritize like what comes first. And

1644
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,840
so

1645
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:05,760
that's probably a separate project

1646
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:07,679
because that's not in the ordinance per

1647
01:10:07,679 --> 01:10:09,600
se, but the ordinance does deal with

1648
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,960
maintenance and um it's very light on

1649
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,000
enforcement right now. You know, signs

1650
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,320
and vegetation and winter maintenance

1651
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:19,679
and things like that. And then maybe

1652
01:10:19,679 --> 01:10:22,000
it's the other policies of how do we do

1653
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,440
our winter? You know, I think it does

1654
01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:27,280
say, you know, what streets get plowed

1655
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:29,440
and that downtown is responsible for

1656
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,199
clearing and stuff. So the ordinance is

1657
01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:33,679
pretty.

1658
01:10:33,679 --> 01:10:35,520
>> So

1659
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,120
is there um something online plan say

1660
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:40,960
this next this is the sidewalk. This

1661
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,840
could get fixed. This is the this year

1662
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,440
plan.

1663
01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:47,920
>> It's not so great. Yeah. So there is

1664
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:49,520
money in the capital plan and there are

1665
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,920
some projects usually identified but

1666
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,520
there's not um really a prioritization

1667
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:56,719
to

1668
01:10:56,719 --> 01:10:58,560
>> that schedule

1669
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,360
is the plan.

1670
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:02,880
>> I would have to check in with public

1671
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,920
works. Um I think part of the problem is

1672
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,120
their sidewalk funding is like I mean

1673
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,520
the amount that they're getting really

1674
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,480
can only handle like patches and

1675
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:18,960
repairs. It's so meager. So hope

1676
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:19,440
>> um

1677
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:22,560
>> I was just reading um through one of my

1678
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,719
Facebook memories a post that I made

1679
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,120
from several years ago about the fact

1680
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:30,320
that uh the size of the VR budget in

1681
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,480
relation to other areas of the budget

1682
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:35,280
and it's just I mean VR is the third

1683
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,504
largest budget item in the state. It's

1684
01:11:37,504 --> 01:11:39,360
[clears throat] insane how much money we

1685
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,239
spend on cars and road maintenance and

1686
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:49,990
how little we spend on sidewalks.

1687
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,600
I'll admit when we talked about this

1688
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,520
yesterday or last month, I I was in my

1689
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,560
nonp profofessional, you know, fantasies

1690
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,239
was thinking, "Oh, we'll we'll spend a

1691
01:12:00,239 --> 01:12:01,600
few months on this and we'll wrap it up

1692
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,719
before the winter." But I'm so glad that

1693
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:07,199
I'm still here to

1694
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:09,199
>> Well, I mean, it would be if we if we

1695
01:12:09,199 --> 01:12:11,040
come out with any recommendations that

1696
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:11,920
totally like

1697
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,800
>> and since it's spelled out there,

1698
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,679
It totally makes sense that we need to,

1699
01:12:17,679 --> 01:12:19,120
you know, we can't just show up with an

1700
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,679
ordinance and just tell the whole

1701
01:12:21,679 --> 01:12:23,840
community that now, you know, a thousand

1702
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:25,600
more properties have the obligation to

1703
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,400
shovel their sidewalks without some due

1704
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:29,360
diligence. And

1705
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:30,800
>> Yeah. Well, I'm sure we're going to get

1706
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:31,679
push back on it.

1707
01:12:31,679 --> 01:12:32,719
>> Yeah. Yeah.

1708
01:12:32,719 --> 01:12:34,320
>> And, you know, and rightfully so. I

1709
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:35,920
mean, the first, you know, objection

1710
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:37,679
that many people are going to have is,

1711
01:12:37,679 --> 01:12:39,120
well, what about people who are disabled

1712
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,199
and or elderly and who cannot do these

1713
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:42,640
things? And we have to come up with a

1714
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,760
plan to deal with that. Um,

1715
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:49,040
I am p personally really interested in

1716
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,320
the actual sidewalk specifications,

1717
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,880
what we may or may not have in in

1718
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,239
ordinances and regulations as to, you

1719
01:12:58,239 --> 01:12:59,760
know,

1720
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,520
whether or not sidewalks must be

1721
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,960
provided, how wide they must be, what

1722
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:09,360
extent they have to uh go to. Um, I

1723
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:10,800
don't even know where to begin looking

1724
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,239
for that.

1725
01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:14,400
So it's in the land use regulations and

1726
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,719
then I think we refer to public works

1727
01:13:16,719 --> 01:13:19,920
specifications if if I recall correctly.

1728
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,840
Um and so we could get those from them.

1729
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,320
>> Is are pedestrian counts something that

1730
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:28,800
exist? I know Windham Regional

1731
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:30,480
Commission was doing what? Bicycle and

1732
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:30,960
traffic.

1733
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,600
>> They were doing bicycle and they do

1734
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,960
traffic. Um and we get some traffic data

1735
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,280
with our speed radar signs that we put

1736
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,400
up for traffic safety. pedestrians. We

1737
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,760
don't do pedestrian counts. Um

1738
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,000
>> you know, we can infer and observe where

1739
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,159
it's popular to walk and we can ask

1740
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:52,239
people who choose to participate where

1741
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:54,560
they think people who choose to comment

1742
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,400
at public outreach where what sidewalks

1743
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,560
they think are important and they want

1744
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,239
>> I mean we have a lot of that from the

1745
01:14:00,239 --> 01:14:00,960
walk bike,

1746
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:02,159
>> right? So we have those

1747
01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,800
>> we hit a map but

1748
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,440
>> not hard data. Yeah. And you know, I

1749
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:08,880
know that the counters that the Windham

1750
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,400
Regional Commission can use, I think

1751
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:13,199
they can get pedestrian count data, but

1752
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:15,280
it's I don't

1753
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,120
>> they they have um

1754
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,960
>> Oh, they can make they start

1755
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,080
>> I think they can, but I don't know that

1756
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:23,360
they'd put them out on the sidewalk.

1757
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:24,640
They use them like they use trail

1758
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,120
counters and stuff. Yeah. I don't know

1759
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:28,800
that they'd lay them out on sidewalks.

1760
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,320
They might be too vulnerable.

1761
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,360
>> And if everyone was on straa and tracked

1762
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,360
walking and running, there's a heat map.

1763
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:35,600
Yeah,

1764
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,040
>> you can see where people go. But, you

1765
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,719
know, that's going to be a narrow

1766
01:14:38,719 --> 01:14:40,159
segment of the populace.

1767
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:42,159
>> Well, I I would just point out as I have

1768
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:44,480
before that, you know, this is sort of

1769
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:46,159
like planning on where to build a bridge

1770
01:14:46,159 --> 01:14:47,679
by how many people you see swimming

1771
01:14:47,679 --> 01:14:48,640
across a river.

1772
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:48,960
>> Yeah.

1773
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,199
>> You know, it's it's you know, pretty

1774
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:52,880
obvious in a lot of places where

1775
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,920
sidewalks need to be and, you know, just

1776
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,920
based upon where the infrastructure of

1777
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,760
the town is and what the amenities are

1778
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,159
and the attractions, right? Um, but I

1779
01:15:02,159 --> 01:15:05,120
think that really just as the base case,

1780
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,360
it should be the town's responsibility

1781
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,159
to provide safe pedestrian passage to

1782
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:14,470
every point in the town.

1783
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:16,880
» Well, and I don't know if this gets at

1784
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,360
what you're saying, Gemma, but I feel

1785
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,760
like I've heard you say things similar

1786
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,560
to this in the past that making these

1787
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,440
types of investments makes our town a

1788
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:30,080
better place for people and businesses

1789
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,199
to live. And so while sometimes we may

1790
01:15:33,199 --> 01:15:35,920
just see them as expenses, they could

1791
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,960
also be the instigator of of income

1792
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,760
potentially and at the very least making

1793
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:46,080
people here happy. But you know, so also

1794
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:50,080
probably part of a plan if we get enough

1795
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,239
people to be interested in it and do the

1796
01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:55,040
research could be potentially

1797
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,280
researching places that have improved

1798
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:01,920
their pedestrian systems. um and how

1799
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,760
those places are doing and if we want to

1800
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,480
be like those places. I'll tell you that

1801
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:10,400
having just come um from Portland,

1802
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,040
Maine, um you want to see some scary

1803
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,520
sidewalks, it makes Brattleboro look

1804
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,840
like a delightful walk in the park

1805
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,080
because all of their sidewalks, so many

1806
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:23,440
of them are brick and so it's like they

1807
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,360
are impassible.

1808
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:25,920
M

1809
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,320
>> um especially if you had a disability,

1810
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:32,320
but um so we're better than some, but we

1811
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,080
can look to others who are still better

1812
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:37,280
yet and maybe see that as a positive for

1813
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,400
spending the money.

1814
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,480
And I think that one thing, you know,

1815
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:46,000
that that we're thinking about is right

1816
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,719
there was all this HUDfunding in the

1817
01:16:48,719 --> 01:16:51,840
70s, I think, where sidewalks were

1818
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,560
really a ton of sidewalks were built and

1819
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:55,840
we can't keep up with those

1820
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,760
infrastructure costs. So, are there

1821
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,880
places where you can put in a multi-use

1822
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:03,920
path and we can tackle bicycle and

1823
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,000
pedestrian needs or are there places

1824
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,199
honestly where the like

1825
01:17:09,199 --> 01:17:11,760
sidewalks might not be necessary? Um,

1826
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,719
because these are really low volume

1827
01:17:14,719 --> 01:17:17,679
streets with low speeds and maybe they

1828
01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:20,239
need to come out. So, so I think there's

1829
01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:22,800
like that kind of work that needs to be

1830
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:24,719
done and I'm the public works would

1831
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:26,640
probably love the planning commission's

1832
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,560
assistance with that. I think that will

1833
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,320
come as they are working on their

1834
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,920
inventories and stuff but you know Maple

1835
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:35,920
Street is one that I've been contacted

1836
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,159
on like those sidewalks are in awful

1837
01:17:38,159 --> 01:17:40,880
condition and it's not safe for cyclists

1838
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,719
and so you know is that a space and

1839
01:17:44,719 --> 01:17:48,239
>> dare I mentioned Putney Road

1840
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:50,400
Well, that's a good segue into the fact

1841
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,800
that Vtrans will be at the select board

1842
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,719
meeting this coming Tuesday and

1843
01:17:54,719 --> 01:17:57,199
presenting a revised plan on for Putney

1844
01:17:57,199 --> 01:17:58,400
Road.

1845
01:17:58,400 --> 01:17:58,800
>> Yes.

1846
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:00,719
>> Good. Good to know. I've been not been

1847
01:18:00,719 --> 01:18:02,000
keeping up with the select board

1848
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:02,480
meetings.

1849
01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:04,800
>> Yeah, the the agenda will be out, but

1850
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:06,880
I've been working with Vrans on that.

1851
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,520
So, they'll be presenting. It's a

1852
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,400
concept, but

1853
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,560
>> but once again, they won't be taking

1854
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,239
care of it. The town will probably be

1855
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:17,600
taking care of it. Is that correct?

1856
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,400
>> So they will build it and then the town

1857
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:22,320
will need to maintain

1858
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,080
>> uh not the they do certain things in the

1859
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,719
roadway but sidewalks multi-use path

1860
01:18:26,719 --> 01:18:27,120
would be

1861
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:30,000
>> repair that needs to be done will be on

1862
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,189
broad

1863
01:18:33,199 --> 01:18:35,360
» they better use granite curving then

1864
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,920
>> I don't know about repair I I honestly

1865
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,560
don't I can get back to you on that

1866
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,560
winter maintenance of sidewalks or

1867
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:47,040
multi-use path would be a Yeah. Yeah.

1868
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:48,480
>> Yeah.

1869
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:51,520
>> So funny. I I p pulled up straa

1870
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,159
>> and yeah see where people walk

1871
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:56,080
>> and you know well certain people the

1872
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:57,440
people that you know

1873
01:18:57,440 --> 01:18:59,920
>> and you know want to ask to get the

1874
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:03,360
flood we're not a sidewalk you know the

1875
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,239
west river trail. So like Gemma said

1876
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:06,560
yeah

1877
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:07,760
>> you're not going to build a bridge to

1878
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,080
see how many people swim across it.

1879
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,040
Doesn't make sense.

1880
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:15,120
Yeah.

1881
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,040
I think Lindsay's point if we want to

1882
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,440
move forward with um seeing if there's

1883
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:21,600
an enthused individual or two from the

1884
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,280
community

1885
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,760
um then that should be something that

1886
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:30,239
happens before we get much into this.

1887
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:33,920
>> Okay. Why don't I see what I can

1888
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,960
what we can do?

1889
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,040
I suppose it's not too early to also

1890
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:43,120
just send a public notice not about snow

1891
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:44,960
removal but just about sidewalk

1892
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:46,640
maintenance in general

1893
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,040
>> and plant growth and all that

1894
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,120
>> and leaves are starting to fall.

1895
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:52,960
>> Leaves are starting to fall. Yeah. I

1896
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:54,560
guess every time any time of year,

1897
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,080
especially winter, but any time of year

1898
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,320
relevant. So, I don't know why it's just

1899
01:19:58,320 --> 01:19:59,840
thinking that we're too early to send

1900
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:02,239
it. Well, we we're certainly going to be

1901
01:20:02,239 --> 01:20:04,880
uh sending out or maybe not sending out

1902
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:06,640
notices, but at least ramping up public

1903
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:11,199
notifications of the uh parking winter

1904
01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:12,560
parking ban. So,

1905
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:13,440
>> in November.

1906
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:15,360
>> Yeah, it starts in November.

1907
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:16,719
>> Yeah.

1908
01:20:16,719 --> 01:20:18,480
>> But, you know, the the town starts

1909
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:24,310
reminding people well before then.

1910
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:25,840
» Well, why don't I report back in

1911
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,880
October? um you know if we can reach out

1912
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:30,640
for some others and kind of create some

1913
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:34,000
sort of whether they are test to do

1914
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:35,520
things or whether there's actual like

1915
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,159
meeting of them that I warn and whatnot.

1916
01:20:38,159 --> 01:20:40,960
Um let me see what I can do and then uh

1917
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:44,719
I'll also get with um you know see about

1918
01:20:44,719 --> 01:20:44,960
some

1919
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,360
>> I suppose it could be as simple as you

1920
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:48,880
know [snorts] um some of us

1921
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,560
commissioners are doing some of the work

1922
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:52,880
here maybe a member of the public or two

1923
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,040
is doing some of the work you or Steve

1924
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:57,199
kind of are the the collection point of

1925
01:20:57,199 --> 01:20:57,920
this

1926
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,159
>> in of this this work and then it comes

1927
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:01,120
to the meeting.

1928
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,880
>> Yep. and whether that community member

1929
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,480
wants to attend the meeting or not or

1930
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:06,960
just have better work um their

1931
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:08,640
contributions,

1932
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:10,159
however it pans out.

1933
01:21:10,159 --> 01:21:10,480
>> Yeah.

1934
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:11,600
>> But yeah, I'll definitely especially

1935
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:14,080
with the slower times, months coming up

1936
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,000
ahead, I'll definitely be able to

1937
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:17,760
participate in some of this and share

1938
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,440
the load.

1939
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:20,080
>> Same.

1940
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:25,830
>> Great. Yeah,

1941
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,920
we love that.

1942
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:30,880
um of our public comment

1943
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:32,560
um space

1944
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:36,000
and seeing no public that's over. So we

1945
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:37,840
finished our business so I join the

1946
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:42,000
meeting at 7:23 p.m.

1947
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,120
>> Thanks everybody.

1948
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:44,400
>> Have a good night.

1949
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:45,760
>> Thank you Lindsay.

1950
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:47,199
>> Bye Lindsay. Oh,

1951
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:52,760
>> I thought you might get a kick again. I brought this up.