[4:19] Testing one, two, three.
How are we doing?
[4:34] She said, "Well, at least."
All right. So, are we
[4:38] I guess so.
I don't know. Are we online?
[4:40] We might be.
All right. Well,
[4:44] whatever. I will officially call to
order our special meeting of the Bvard
[4:50] City Council on Thursday, October 30th.
Welcome to everybody that has joined us.
[4:55] As always, it's great to see the public
and hopefully we are broadcasting and
[5:01] welcome to everybody that's watching us
online.
[5:05] This is a special meeting, so our agenda
is somewhat abridged. Madame clerk, do
[5:10] we have a quorum?
Yes, you do have a quorum. All members
[5:14] are present.
I will just introduce everybody that is
[5:18] sitting up here.
On my far right is our city attorney, M.
[5:23] Mckeler. Next to Mac is Councilman
Lauren Wise. Next to Lauren is
[5:29] Councilwoman Pamela Holder. Next to
Pamela is Councilman M. tomorrow. I'm
[5:35] Mayor Moren Copelof. On my immediate
left is our city clerk Denise Hodston.
[5:40] Next to Denise is Councilman and Mayor
Prom Gary Daniel. Next to Gary is
[5:46] Councilman Aaron Baker. And on the far
left is our city manager Wilson Hooper.
[5:52] Okay, with that council, you've got the
draft agenda. Are there any changes or
[5:58] modifications to the agenda?
Do I have a motion to approve the
[6:03] agenda?
So move.
[6:04] Second. All in favor?
I.
[6:07] Agenda is approved. We will move right
into public comments.
[6:13] Okay.
The public is invited to speak during
[6:17] public comment at this time only on the
item on the agenda for this special
[6:22] meeting. Anyone who wants to speak must
register with the city clerk, which is
[6:27] what this list is. When it is your turn,
step to the podium in front of city
[6:32] council. State your name and address
clearly. Limit comments to three minutes
[6:38] or less and avoid repetition.
Direct comments to the full council, not
[6:43] to an individual council member or to
staff. And I will give you a warning
[6:49] when you have 30 seconds left.
Okay. I will call people up in the order
[6:54] which you signed. Our first speaker is
Anne Hollingsworth.
[7:05] Do I need to bring this down?
Just like that.
[7:09] Like that. Yeah.
Okay.
[7:10] Hello. Um, I know most of you, but for
those who don't know me, I'm Ann
[7:15] Hollingssworth and I live at 187 East
Main Street, downtown Breard. and my
[7:23] husband Danny and I own 78 South Broad
Street, which is occupied by Headline
[7:29] Salon.
Last week, we were out of town when you
[7:33] all had your uh regular monthly council
meeting, and we had just become aware of
[7:38] the issue.
So, we emailed all our concerns uh
[7:42] relating to why we did not want a
loading zone in front of headlines,
[7:46] cycle works, and looking glass reality.
I would like to personally speak with
[7:52] you now for the public record. Brooke
McCall, the owner of Headlines, has been
[7:57] in business at that location for 28
years. She has an established clientele.
[8:03] Many of her longtime customers are older
and can't physically walk blocks to get
[8:08] their hair done. She has told us she has
lost many customers because of the lack
[8:13] of parking. Now, another factor that I
thought of after I emailed you all is
[8:21] for not putting a loading zone is the
lack of visibility. When you come out of
[8:26] First Citizens Bank onto Broad Street,
the large tractor trailers would block
[8:33] the line of sight and this would be
extremely dangerous because of the speed
[8:38] people
come on Broad Street.
[8:42] And um that's all I have to say and I
thank you for your time and
[8:47] consideration.
Thank you, Miss Hollingsworth.
[8:51] Our next speaker is Doug Miller.
[8:58] that back up.
Hey, Doug Miller. I live at uh South
[9:02] Calwell Street and have a business on
West Jordan Street. So, obviously have
[9:07] an interest in this uh conversation and
I attended the committee meeting that
[9:12] you guys had to go over this again last
week. Was it this week or I don't
[9:16] remember. It was recently. Um [laughter]
and I just thank you guys for moving
[9:20] with such urgency on this. I do
appreciate the sense of urgency with
[9:23] which you're moving and I think that the
uh decision that was made at the last
[9:26] committee meeting was a good one. I
think there was some really good
[9:28] conversation. I feel like we came to a
good um balance between you know making
[9:33] sure that the businesses uh needs are
met and that the businesses who need to
[9:38] get deliveries needs are met and that
the safety of the folks that need to
[9:41] move around is [clears throat] taken
into consideration. Um we're not
[9:45] blocking any fire hydrants with this
decision. So I know that was a concern
[9:48] from the city but I think there was good
conversation. And I feel like ultimately
[9:51] that was a good decision.
[clears throat] So I'm here to say I
[9:53] support it. I think that's the right
move at this point to go ahead and put
[9:56] the loading zones in the places that
were recommended by the committee.
[10:00] Thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Miller.
[10:03] Our next speaker is Melissa Driver.
[10:10] Good evening. I know several of you, but
for those of you who do not know me, my
[10:14] name is Melissa Driver. I live at 370
Maple Street here downtown. and my
[10:19] husband Joe Driver and I own Cycle Works
which we recently opened back in July
[10:24] and are leasing from Paul Willander. He
owns the remainder of the building as
[10:28] well and I work for him as an agent. So
I use the building for multiple purposes
[10:33] and I appreciate that you all sent the
this item back to a special committee.
[10:38] So, I want to thank you for that because
that gave us the time to understand more
[10:42] about what was being proposed and also
discuss with that committee what we had
[10:46] hoped for as we all plan this downtown
master plan together that's beneficial
[10:52] for all of the businesses, not just
individual businesses. So, I appreciate
[10:57] having the ability to have that input
and not focus solely on where do we put
[11:00] food trucks, but also our livelihood as
a business and a new business and a
[11:05] retail storefront. So, thank you for
hearing us out at that committee
[11:08] meeting. I also am in agreement with the
the recommendation that came out of that
[11:12] committee meeting and I'm looking
forward to your approval of that
[11:15] recommendation to place the parking
loading zone away from our building and
[11:20] allow there to accommodate still the
remaining three spaces in front of our
[11:24] building. So, thank you very much and I
hope that you come to agreement with it.
[11:29] Thank you, Mr. Driver. All right. And
that is everyone that signed up for
[11:33] public comment.
All right, we will move on to unfinished
[11:38] business, the South Broad Street
restriping plan. And I guess city
[11:42] manager will be presenting.
I'll kick us off and then I'll throw to
[11:45] David to take us through the
alternatives that were discussed by the
[11:49] committee last week, including their
recommendation. Um, just as a reminder
[11:54] to you council, but also for the benefit
of our uh, audience in person and those
[11:59] who are watching the meeting online,
this evening's meeting is the result of
[12:03] your instruction from October 20th to
send the South Broad Street restrip
[12:08] restriping matter back to the downtown
master plan committee for
[12:11] reconsideration
and the need to have uh, you all confirm
[12:17] or not their recommendation as soon as
possible so that we can transmit
[12:22] to NC DOT and them to their contractor
before the contractor's upcoming
[12:29] completion deadline. Uh if we miss that
deadline, um we'll have to assume the
[12:34] cost of this restriping if we get it to
them on time, which this committee will
[12:38] enable us to do. Uh most the vast vast
majority of the cost will be borne by
[12:43] them. Uh so as I said before, downtown
master plan committee met last week.
[12:49] They reviewed their original proposal
from May, heard some public comments,
[12:53] including some of the folks who've
shared with you again today, and uh they
[12:58] reviewed several alternatives that were
developed by uh staff, and they
[13:03] considered an alternative that was
profered by heart of Bvard, which David
[13:08] will go over as well. Um finally, and
this is very important, the committee
[13:12] also considered
um information from the logistics and
[13:17] delivery industry, which Deie Harris
reached down into her rolodex and called
[13:23] one of her contacts to provide to us.
And I appreciate that because they were
[13:28] a stakeholder that we didn't have enough
time to involve in this discussion, but
[13:32] they're an important one nonetheless.
And so I appreciate her bringing that
[13:36] information to the committee and it
informed our conversation uh quite
[13:40] helpfully in my opinion.
So before I throw to David, the one
[13:44] thing I'll say is that the logistics
folks that she brought information from
[13:50] agreed with us that none of our
alternatives are great. There's not one
[13:54] that's perfect and doesn't have some
trade-offs. Um, but I personally feel
[13:58] that the alternative which was chosen
has the fewest negative tradeoffs and
[14:03] for that reason I also agree that it's a
good way forward and so I'll now throw
[14:08] to David to take us through the various
alternatives if you would please sir.
[14:12] Yes sir. Mayor Council good evening.
First thing I would like to do is walk
[14:18] us through the current recommendation
and then I can show you the different
[14:22] things that we considered. So, the first
recommendation that you see, this is uh
[14:28] I made our mouse bigger so hopefully we
can see a little better tonight. This is
[14:31] Broad Street in Jordan with Maine up
here. What this proposal does or this
[14:37] option does is it takes the current ADA
space that is somewhere in this general
[14:42] vicinity and it moves it to the end and
it creates a 69 ft loading zone that is
[14:50] contiguous whereas before it was broken
into two spaces and it adds one
[14:55] additional 22ft parking space. So that
is uh
[15:01] option one of what we are asking you to
approve tonight and what was approved
[15:06] and recommended by the downtown master
plan committee.
[15:10] Option two,
I'm sorry, op this is not option two.
[15:15] This is part two. Part two would paint
the parking spaces that let me orient us
[15:23] again. This is Jordan Street and Broad
Street. Part two would paint the parking
[15:28] spaces in front of Looking Glass Realy,
the salon, the bike shop that we're
[15:33] speaking about tonight back as they are
currently painted. It would move the
[15:38] loading zone across the street in front
of Eldridge Motors. This would be a 40ft
[15:43] loading zone. This would accommodate a
box truck, UPS truck, FedEx truck, those
[15:50] type of vehicles. I do want to go back
for just a moment to the first
[15:53] recommendation.
The 69 foot loading zone should
[15:59] accommodate
one of the I'm going to refer to them as
[16:03] the US Foods trucks. That's the kind of
mini tractor trailer looking trucks that
[16:08] we see around town. Those trucks are
approximately 50 ft long with a 14 foot
[16:13] loading ramp out of the back then with
another 5t for working space to get in
[16:17] and out of the ramp and then onto the
crosswalk. So we feel this would easily
[16:22] handle the largest of the US food
trucks. It would not handle,
[16:27] [clears throat] excuse me, it would not
handle a full-size, you know, 53 foot
[16:31] tractor trailer, but I' I've not seen
one of those try to unload in Bvard
[16:36] since I've been here.
So, that's two recommendations that are
[16:40] in front of you. What I'd like to do
next is just quickly run through several
[16:44] other considerations that we looked at.
[16:51] So, one of those is the option one that
we just looked at and recommended to
[16:55] you. Option two
[17:00] was a smaller loading zone. This reduced
the 69 ft loading zone down to 47 ft
[17:06] with a 22t parking space. Now, one thing
I I do want to just say for
[17:10] clarification, all of these numbers are
approximate. They're general. The GPS is
[17:15] not exact, and that's what we've used to
get some of these dimensions between
[17:19] this and a combination of field
measurements, but things may be a little
[17:23] smaller than what they're actually
shown. We typically would make that
[17:26] difference up in the largest space. So
the in this case, the 40 7 foot loading
[17:31] zone might be a little smaller, a little
larger. In the first scenario, the 69
[17:35] foot might be a little smaller, a little
larger. In this particular scenario, you
[17:39] add a second parking space. But the
downside is this is no longer large
[17:45] enough to accommodate one of the I'll
call it mini tractor trailers, the US
[17:50] food service type tractor trailer.
[17:56] The next option we looked at is what we
originally had been proposed from the
[18:01] downtown master plan committee which was
to leave the striping in front of
[18:05] looking glass realy blank and allow us
to place temporary paint to decide which
[18:11] parking scenario or loading zone might
work the best.
[18:17] The let me just go back to that for a
second. The the con to this would be at
[18:22] some point we would be responsible for
painting that parking in and the
[18:26] thermoplastic as well as whatever
traffic control had to happen. So would
[18:31] not be a huge expense but it's
definitely an expense that the city
[18:34] would have to take on.
[18:38] Option four, we looked at converting
the entire area in front of Looking
[18:44] Glass Realy, again, the bike shop, the
salon into an 82 foot approximate
[18:50] loading zone. This would be uh more than
suitable for the mini tractor trailer.
[18:56] And it would move the ADA space that's
currently in front of Looking Glass
[19:01] Realy across the street and would add a
ramp with that parking space. It's very
[19:07] likely that [cough]
[clears throat] currently two parking
[19:10] spaces here that may result in the loss
of a parking space, an extra parking
[19:16] space. If we do that, we really need to
just get out there and place it. Make
[19:19] sure we have adequate sight lines in and
out of the driveways on both sides of
[19:24] looking glass motors. You can see
there's a driveway on each end. So in
[19:29] this scenario, if we assume that we
maintain the parking space, the two
[19:34] parking spaces here in front of Eldridge
Motors, there would be a loss of the
[19:39] three parking spaces on this side of the
road in front of Looking Glass Realy.
[19:45] Another option we looked at is what we
call option 4A.
[19:50] Option 4A again has an 82 foot loading
zone from Looking Glass Realy down in
[19:55] front of the salon and bike shop. It
leaves the spaces in front of Eldridge
[20:00] Motors alone, but it converts the last
space on Jordan Street into an ADA
[20:06] space. This space, in my opinion, is uh
very well suited for an ADA space
[20:12] because it's very flat, very centrally
located, has easy access to the
[20:16] crosswalk, but it is, however, a lot
further distance from the headline
[20:21] salon, which the current space is uh we
believe that's probably the primary
[20:26] user.
The next scenario we looked at, we'll
[20:31] call it option five.
Option five converts the spaces in front
[20:38] of Looking Glass Realy to a smaller
loading zone, a 60-foot loading zone,
[20:42] which would allow us to maintain one
parking space and it moves the ADA space
[20:48] across the street. The downside to this
scenario is the mini tractor trailer is
[20:55] 64 feet from the front of the truck to
the end of the loading ramp plus the
[20:59] workspace. So the 69 ft would push the
driver of that truck and unless he
[21:05] pulled all the way up into this parking
space, it would push his unloading
[21:10] activities into the intersection,
probably blocking access to Jordan
[21:15] Street.
It does maintain one additional parking
[21:20] space here. So you have a loss of two
parking spaces with this particular
[21:23] scenario.
[21:26] Option 5A does the identical thing but
preserves the spaces in front of
[21:31] Eldridge Motors and moves the ADA space
up at the end of Jordan Street. We do
[21:38] have concerns that I'm going to go back
an option. If the ADA space in any of
[21:42] these scenarios is placed on this other
side of the road, we are potentially um
[21:48] this is kind of true in any case because
we don't know where folks are going, but
[21:51] if it was someone that was a client of
the hair salon, they are going to have
[21:54] to cross the road and back up. The
majority,
[21:59] it's hard to say majority of the
businesses are on the other side of
[22:03] broad, but in this particular area,
there are probably more businesses on
[22:07] the other side of broad.
[22:12] Option six that we looked at
creates a 55- ft loading zone moves the
[22:19] ADA space to the end of this range.
The 55 ft loading zone again has the
[22:25] same issue of not being able to
accommodate the mini tractor trailer,
[22:28] but it would easily accommodate one or
two box trucks. It also puts the
[22:34] accessible parking space in an ideal
location for folks at the salon and it
[22:40] maintains it if nothing else on that
side of the road.
[22:49] That's the options that we reviewed. The
heart of Bvard brought a another idea to
[22:54] the table.
[snorts]
[22:58] While I don't have that exact proposal
laid out, I do have the dimensions of
[23:03] that area that we can look at.
[23:10] Me just a second here. I'll try to make
this a little bigger. We can see it
[23:12] better.
[23:35] Okay. So, in this particular scenario,
[23:40] I've just laid some dimensions out here,
but what you currently have on East
[23:44] Jordan Street, so let me orient us
again. This is East Jordan Street. This
[23:47] is Broad. This is Coyote's right here on
the corner.
[23:52] What you presently have in this location
are three parallel parking spaces that
[23:57] kind of run the length of the building.
They start down here where this driveway
[24:03] entrance goes in. They start 11 ft up
from that and you have three parking
[24:08] spaces that move up
32 foot from the corner approximately. I
[24:15] just measured off the uh traffic signal
pole. There is a fire department
[24:21] connection onto the building. There's
also a fire alarm control panel access
[24:26] door into the building that we
definitely would not want to block the
[24:30] fire department connection, but we also
probably would not want to block the
[24:34] door as well.
Here's a photo where you can see the
[24:40] this is the fire department connection
here. And I believe I've got another
[24:44] photo that shows the door.
[24:54] So, here you can see the fire department
connection and the door. Another issue
[24:59] of concern with East Jordan Street is
that it does have two lanes as you exit.
[25:05] So, it's got one lane if you're turning
straight or if you're going straight or
[25:09] turning left and it has another lane if
you're turning right. when they recently
[25:14] repaved the signal control loops for
that traffic light were brought a lot
[25:20] further down the street on Jordan. I'm
not exactly sure why that is. I suspect
[25:25] it has to do with the stacking count for
the light to change. So, this really
[25:30] pushes the usable space a lot further
down East Jordan Street, especially if
[25:36] you want to give cars space to drive
around any potential loading zone that
[25:41] might be there.
[25:45] to get stacked into the traffic count.
So those loops come down somewhere in
[25:51] this neighborhood where I'm showing my
area arrow right now.
[25:59] Mr. Hooper, is there anything else you
would like me to show [clears throat] or
[26:02] review with them? The other um thing we
brought up to the committee that they uh
[26:07] considered was the fact that the
downtown master plan uh foresees one day
[26:13] East Jordan Street being converted into
a road with a bike lane on it and we
[26:19] didn't want to foreclose on that
possibility by using that space as a
[26:24] loading zone. And then finally, with the
way that the road is oriented, one way
[26:29] going west to access that loading zone,
the trucks would have to drive a big
[26:35] loop uh around East Main Street, making
that tight right turn off of South Broad
[26:43] onto East Maine, or that conflicted, and
when I mean conflicted, I mean a turn
[26:49] that faces a lot of oncoming traffic
coming left off of North broad onto East
[26:56] Maine. And so just the traffic situation
that it would create by forcing trucks
[27:02] to drive all the way around the block to
get pointed in the right direction on
[27:06] that uh potential loading zone was
something that we brought up to the
[27:10] committee that they considered when they
were making their recommendation.
[27:14] [clears throat]
[27:18] Okay. Anything else, Mr. Manager?
No, ma'am.
[27:22] All right. Council, we are looking for a
decision tonight. Do I have a motion?
[27:27] Staff is recommending that you approve
the recommendations from the downtown
[27:34] master plan committee. Do I have a
recommendation to approve those?
[27:40] Do I have a motion?
A motion. Okay.
[27:42] Um, a motion that we approve the
recommendation from the committee um at
[27:47] this past meeting.
Do I have a second?
[27:50] Second.
Okay. We'll open it for discussion. Miss
[27:53] Holder.
Um I'm co-chairperson of that committee
[27:59] and um we did not take lightly
what needed to happen to
[28:07] uh not hurt businesses that would may be
affected by parking a truck there. But
[28:12] we know that loading zones are
necessary. And so the idea to take it
[28:16] across the street was a a good one. and
I felt like the best option and I'm glad
[28:22] that we were able to come to where we
are now to this point to move forward.
[28:28] Mr. Mororrow,
it seems like we found consensus as well
[28:33] and that's always good. [clears throat]
Mr. Weiss.
[28:37] Yeah, I think um someone stated there's
no perfect answer to this problem. Um, I
[28:42] think the original plan in front of
looking glass was perhaps the easiest
[28:45] for drivers, but um, we I think the
impacts outweighed the ease for drivers.
[28:51] And I like this solution in front of
coyotes
[28:55] because it also gets the trucks more
where they're likely to be needed. So,
[29:00] um, in in light of the not great
options, I think this is the best one.
[29:06] And I and I and I also appreciate the
downtown master planning committee uh
[29:10] giving this some extra thought.
Mr. Baker,
[29:15] yeah, just a couple questions. You
mentioned that we heard back from some
[29:20] of the comp logistics companies. Can you
just briefly summarize what they what
[29:27] their input was?
Um they agreed that putting it down the
[29:32] hill in front of the bank was probably
not a great option. And that was
[29:35] something that was discussed at the
committee meeting, but uh was put to bed
[29:39] pretty early because of the feedback of
the um logistics folks. Uh they also
[29:44] agreed that navigating over to East
Jordan Street and the large trucks um
[29:49] would be tough because [clears throat]
most of their traffic of course uses
[29:52] broad as the main artery in and out of
town. Um, and then they, as I said, also
[29:58] agreed that none of these solutions were
great, but that the one that the
[30:02] committee recommended was, as Council
Member Weise said, sort of the the least
[30:06] bad of the decisions.
[30:10] And have we had any other conversations
with the DOT contractor on their timing,
[30:16] or we're still kind of unsure of when
that might actually happen?
[30:20] We suspect it'll happen very soon. We
think that they lost a few days due to
[30:25] weather. Um and so their um deadline has
been extended by a few days. Uh so I
[30:32] think we're going to get in under the
deadline. But as for when they're going
[30:35] to actually be out there and install it,
probably within what the next two weeks.
[30:43] [clears throat]
They initially indicated they were going
[30:46] to start early this week.
So we were really pressed on time. So
[30:50] the weather helped us. So I suspect
they'll they're probably delayed on the
[30:54] job they were working on. I suspect
they'll start sometime next week if not
[30:59] early the week after is my guess.
Okay.
[31:02] And of course they've got the whole, you
know, footprint of the entire project to
[31:06] do. And so I don't know what order
they're going to do it in, but they
[31:09] might not get to this part for a while
because they got to go from the college
[31:13] all the way to the Sunset Motel.
Yeah. Well, um, last thing I'll say is
[31:17] just thanks to the staff and the
committee for doing some last minute um,
[31:24] rescheduling and spending some more time
on this that they probably didn't uh,
[31:29] bargain on. So, uh, I think we've
reached a a good consensus and heard
[31:35] from the necessary uh, stakeholders and
I'm comfortable with moving forward.
[31:42] Mr. Daniel.
Yeah. Uh, this proposal comes to the
[31:46] council with a unanimous vote from the
downtown master plan committee and but I
[31:51] would like to state that my vote was
made with the intention of moving this
[31:58] uh proposal to city council.
Um, and I'd also like to remind the
[32:06] council that the downtown master plan
committee was formed to advise us on the
[32:13] implementation of the downtown master
plan. An issue that is politically
[32:19] fraught as downtown parking should
ultimately be the sole responsibility of
[32:25] this council. And indeed, that's what
this vote tonight will do.
[32:31] The issue I have with this proposal is
that it's essentially what's in place
[32:36] now. Uh it's the same proposal that the
downtown master plan uh made uh
[32:44] previously and was implemented and um it
obviously it doesn't work. Uh, I have a
[32:52] video on my phone uh from a week ago, a
little more over a week ago, of a
[32:58] tractor trailer parked on East Jordan uh
unloading
[33:03] and the uh loading zone in front of
coyotes was empty. They had the option
[33:10] to park there and they did not. Um,
and I [clears throat] realize that where
[33:16] to place these loading zones is a
difficult decision,
[33:21] but staff's proposal, original proposal,
which I believe is the most practical uh
[33:27] location
has craw caused great concern with the
[33:30] merchants affected by that location.
[clears throat]
[33:34] And although I understand why these
folks feel as they do, I truly believe
[33:40] that their concerns are largely
misplaced.
[33:46] Though it would be much easier for me
personally to go along to get along on
[33:52] an issue beset with peril on all sides
and an issue that can easily be
[33:58] rectified if it's later determined that
it needs to be. So, um, I was not going
[34:04] to be able to support this.
All right. All right. Is there any
[34:10] further discussion?
All right. Then I have a motion and a
[34:15] second. I will call for a vote. All in
favor?
[34:17] I.
Opposed?
[34:19] I.
Okay. Four eyes, one nay. Eyes have it.
[34:23] Motion passes.
All right.
[34:27] That was the only item on our agenda.
And with that, I just need a motion to
[34:36] adjurnn.
So move.
[34:37] Second.
All in favor?
[34:39] I.
We are adjourned. Thank you.
[34:44] All right.