[3:54] And so it is
504. So we're going to get started
[4:00] calling the meeting order. Um, and we
here are the um Brooklyn building use
[4:08] group. Um, and we'll start by
introducing ourselves. My name is Mary
[4:13] Hickeyi. I live at 60 Sunny Lane. Um, I
am a retired journalist. Um, I'm a
[4:21] grandma and um, I'm approaching this as
a journalist looking for information,
[4:28] listening, researching
um, and trying to learn as much as we
[4:33] can to share with
the town whatever we find and we're very
[4:41] eager to hear everybody's thoughts and
that's what this meeting is about,
[4:45] listening. So that's me.
presser. Uh I also live at 63 lanes.
[4:54] I'm
>> also a retired journalist
[4:57] and uh I have been around that long and
very
[5:02] this community has to say about this of
which I am glad to be a part. I it's
[5:07] great to see so many people so involved
in so democratic term.
[5:16] I'm Andrea Seaton. My husband Mike is in
the back row there next to Johnny Swing
[5:20] and I moved to 793 Brass and Jook Road
in
[5:26] thrilled to be Brooklyn residents after
having lived in East and raised our kids
[5:30] there for 30 years and our kids went to
Landon and Gray and I was in charge of
[5:35] fundraising public relations and
marketing at Grace Scott for 28 years.
[5:39] So I that way
>> I'm Stan Noa who live at 65 Sunny Lane
[5:46] next door neighbor to the other two
people involved here
[5:49] » and uh been in town since 1989.
>> Wow.
[5:53] » Uh so um have a somewhat of a
familiarity with the town. I've had the
[5:58] pleasure of serving the citizens in
other capacities and appreciate your
[6:03] support and I here to support the rest
of the group uh and the efforts involved
[6:08] and uh I think we've done a pretty
decent job of trying to get you some
[6:14] info on scenarios that are potential and
um pleasure to be here.
[6:22] My [clears throat] name is Ly Brooks. I
don't live on the sunny land.
[6:27] I learned at Ky Farm lifelong resident
um went to elementary school in this
[6:33] building and uh just as a lifelong
resident thought this committee would be
[6:38] a good start for me to
start getting more involved with the
[6:42] town. So just here to listen and talk
through some ideas.
[6:48] » Oh, I'm Jess. I live at the West River
in slash lodge, whatever era you're
[6:54] from. Um
and this is my first time participating
[6:58] in in uh small town politics and it's
very exciting and it's a lot and I'm
[7:05] learning a lot but I'm I'm really truly
just really excited to see what kind of
[7:10] information we can come up with and what
as a community we decide to do. I'm I'm
[7:15] just so excited.
>> Yeah.
[7:18] Oh. Uh hi, I'm Emily. I'm on the select
board. I'm just doing the Zoom. This is
[7:22] our show.
Zoom
[7:27] » do
[7:31] I'm Mike
a select board but uh Alli and I have
[7:36] been you know we brought together we
want to seek volunteers primarily who
[7:41] maybe maybe you've been in town a long
time maybe you haven't but maybe you
[7:45] haven't been involved in in a lot of
town government so we we other than
[7:49] stand who's the veteran anchor here
they're really kind of new to town
[7:54] processes and so forth. So Emily and I
have kind of been trying to help
[7:57] everybody get up to speed as soon as
possible and be as productive as
[8:01] possible in their work by navigating the
way town meetings happen and that kind
[8:06] of stuff. So that's so we're supporting
this group.
[8:10] » And if anyone doesn't hasn't gotten a
signin sheet, please um let's send it
[8:14] back.
>> And also there's information sheets at
[8:17] the back that everyone should uh grab if
you haven't already. So we just have a
[8:21] couple little items or one little item
of business. Um approving the draft
[8:25] minutes from our last meeting.
>> Motion approved.
[8:31] » Second.
>> All in favor?
[8:33] » I would like to add some things for my
portion of the report. Uh Jess does a
[8:40] wonderful job as does Vanessa. It's a
long tedious process and and I've done
[8:46] them myself and sometimes you're just in
trouble getting something right and you
[8:50] miss the next time thing or two on the
list. So, um, this is
[8:56] and Jess has been fantastic. I I don't
want this to reflect negatively at all.
[8:59] That's not my intent. I just want to
make sure that I get what, um, happened
[9:05] my mouth in my hand. So, uh, I'd like to
amend item. I forget what item it is
[9:11] that uh, involve my presentation.
follows it.
[9:20] Yes, it was item number six
report. I'd just like to add to that um
[9:29] the the fact that um I had handed out
market data on land sales in this town
[9:38] and surrounding towns going back to in
2020 as an aid in allowing
[9:46] the committee to understand what lot
values might be. Should the town take a
[9:53] course that involves selling the school
andor taking a part of land off of it to
[9:59] gauge some kind of value to give numbers
that people might look at to make a
[10:04] determination. So that that's one item.
Uh
[10:09] I then submitted a Microsoft Word
document on highest and best use as it
[10:15] applied to uh how any building
[clears throat] that the town might uh
[10:21] put up for sale could be enhanced in
terms of providing a greater return to
[10:26] the citizens of the town. Uh I also
telephoned the developer of the South
[10:33] New Fang Church and tried to get a an
idea of why they chose the route that
[10:41] they did. Uh, and how they viewed that
process. Um, and then I also then
[10:49] contacted the buyer and seller of a
property in Vernon that had been a
[10:54] restaurant
uh, and a store to get a sense from both
[10:59] of them what their motivation was for
the transaction, what their motivation
[11:03] was for value uh, and uh, to better
serve background information again for
[11:10] possible options here on law.
But I guess those are the four things
[11:15] I'd like to add to the list that I've
had.
[11:20] And with that amendment,
all favor
[11:27] uh second uh action item uh I we need a
motion to turn the meeting over to
[11:34] moderator Da Harper.
>> So move.
[11:37] » Second.
>> All in favor? Hi,
[11:43] » I'm David Parker. I don't live at Sunny
>> Lake,
[11:47] you know. Um, yeah, I I'd like to keep
this and I think the group would too
[11:53] keep this as informal as possible. Um,
my understanding looking at the agenda
[11:58] is they're going to do a brief
presentation as to what they have found,
[12:03] what they've been up to. Um, they're not
here to give the sales pitch. Um and
[12:09] then conversely you are will be free
after that to ask questions uh make
[12:14] comments uh bring forth any information
that you'd like to share with them. So
[12:19] basically just a large exchange of
intimism. Um so one would hope that um
[12:27] if you have a question or something
you'd like to say raise your hand at
[12:30] that point. I'll call on you and try to
know who's next and and we can get an
[12:36] order go and um we'll go from there.
[12:43] » This um we introduced ourselves like I I
think I put that twice in the minutes.
[12:48] Apologies for that. Um so the sheet that
I've handed out uh is something we all
[12:53] worked on. Gives you an overview of what
we've been doing so far. Um,
[12:59] our assignment via the select board is
pretty straightforward. Uh, gather
[13:04] information on the building, the school
building and the town building. Uh,
[13:09] develop possible scenarios and we
brainstormed a lot and came up with a
[13:14] gazillion different permutations of
ideas. Um, and um, then sort of narrowed
[13:21] it down, which we'll get to in a few
minutes. Um, then to provide financial
[13:25] models. what is this going to mean? You
know, if we do this, how much will it
[13:29] cost? If we do this, how much it will
save us. So, try to assess as best we
[13:34] can what the financial impact will be.
Uh we also have been charged with
[13:38] hosting two townwide discussions um and
summarizing the input that we hear. This
[13:44] is the first of the two. Um then
finally, we are going to create a report
[13:50] uh based on what we find and and submit
it to the select board. Barba, our group
[13:56] is not a decision-making group in any
way, shape, or form. Uh we're not a
[14:00] recommendation making group. We are
simply a factf finding group. Um and so
[14:06] that's what we're trying to do. Learn as
much as we can. Consider every option
[14:11] possible. Um so we started looking at
what are the things that we have to
[14:15] consider. Does the town need or want a
larger town office? um how difficult or
[14:22] easy would it be to sell this building
or conversely to sell the town hall? Um
[14:27] what are the costs and benefits of
selling or not selling? Um what would be
[14:33] gained sort of monetarily but also sort
of just in general what would the
[14:39] community gain from selling or
conversely what would the community lose
[14:44] by selling? Um what alternative use is
there for each of these buildings? what
[14:50] other possibilities
what we can do with the property and the
[14:54] space and then finally the cost and
impact which um which is where we're at.
[15:00] Um we've done uh we've narrowed it down
to four main options. One is sort of do
[15:08] nothing. Leave the status quo for now.
See what happens. See how the markets
[15:12] change. What might come up? Another one
would be to move the town office from
[15:17] down the road to this building and sell
the town office building.
[15:23] Another one would be to rent this
building to seek a tenant, a preferred
[15:27] tenant, somebody that everybody would be
happy with to use this building as a
[15:31] rental with the town potentially
managing that as a rental property. Um
[15:37] and finally to sell this building at uh
to an acceptable buyer that everyone
[15:43] feels good about and uh keeping the town
office where it is. So those are the
[15:48] four scenarios that we have begun to
examine. Um I don't want to go through
[15:53] this whole list of what we've done, but
we've done a lot. and we've reached out
[15:58] uh we've done Stan has been super
amazing about getting us information on
[16:03] the listings and the property values and
the history of the building. Um we've um
[16:11] met with realtors uh to talk about the
potential of selling or uh renting
[16:17] either building. Uh Jess has met with
contractors to talk about the cost of
[16:22] renovating buildings. We're looking into
the cost of moving the town vault. Um
[16:28] we've connected with um some nonprofit
groups who have worked in in other
[16:34] communities. There are many communities
around the state that are dealing with
[16:38] identical issues. And in many of them, a
very common scenario is that the
[16:42] citizens form a nonprofit group, get the
building from the town, and then the
[16:47] citizens kind of spearhead turning it
into a community center or a daycare
[16:52] center or a various they're all listed
in this sheet that I've passed along.
[16:57] Um, and getting grant money, which is a
fairly complicated and arduous process,
[17:03] but there are there is grant money out
there for various options.
[17:08] um most of it for uh nonprofits that
sort of demonstrate a commitment either
[17:14] financially or have committees that show
that these citizens are willing to take
[17:18] this over. Uh we've talked to we talked
to significantly we talked to the family
[17:25] uh that gave the town the town office um
and asked about the easement. There was
[17:30] an easement issue there. Um, and
somebody else might be able to explain
[17:35] that better than I can. Uh, but
basically this family is not uh willing
[17:41] to relinquish the easement. Um, they
have their reasons. They own land in
[17:46] back of the building. Um, so that
obviously would affect the ability to
[17:50] sell the building or the price of the
building. Um,
[17:55] we've talked to daycare uh people in the
daycare community about possible daycare
[18:00] use of the building. Um, we're just
we're doing a lot and we're kind of
[18:05] going down every little path that seems
viable and sometimes it's makes sense
[18:10] and sometimes like oh well this is not
going to work for us. Um, and then
[18:15] finally uh we're beginning to develop
these financial models which we're
[18:19] hoping to really nail down as best we
can. So,
[18:23] am I missing anything? What else have we
done that?
[18:30] » But we're right now we're still in the
information gathering phase. We have not
[18:35] even we're not really ready to present a
full report of any kind. Um, and what we
[18:41] want to hear is this is the town. What
do you guys think should be done? What
[18:47] are the priorities? What shouldn't be
done? What are whatever. So with that,
[18:52] back to you, David.
>> Seems clear to me.
[18:57] » So yeah. Um, who would like to first?
>> Can you explain the easements and what
[19:06] it allows or does not allow to be done?
>> Before we go here, I just if you
[19:13] recognize to speak, just if you could
say your name so everybody knows who you
[19:16] are, I'll bring the report to
>> Lori now. Martachi.
[19:19] » There we go. Good.
>> Uh at the time the property was donated
[19:24] to uh the town, the uh donators
retained a 25- foot wide easement to
[19:33] access the property behind the lot that
they were giving to the town. They owned
[19:38] a total of 180 acres and they have
another way of going north of the Grassy
[19:44] Brook, but they wanted a more direct
shot because it is 180 acres and it does
[19:48] go quite a ways down the mountain behind
the town office. So, they retained a
[19:52] right an easement to have access to that
if they're choosing to simply go across
[19:58] the property. Now, that easement, if
you're standing at the round schoolhouse
[20:01] looking at the town office, you'll note
there's a a line of st a stone wall on
[20:07] the south side of the town office
property. It appears that that easement
[20:11] goes from that stone wall 25 ft toward
the town office. So, a short distance
[20:17] between the entry door to the town
office is kind of where that easement
[20:21] ends. So, you know, I guess you could
lose that parking. Uh well, if if they
[20:26] want to use it at that time, family's
going to move their car. That's what it
[20:30] appears to me. And and the select board
members here were kind enough to to
[20:34] approach family members. And as as was
said, they're not interested in
[20:39] relinquishing that.
>> So, it does kind of present a little bit
[20:43] of a problem should the citizens decide
you want to market that
[20:47] » to get something back should we move to
this building. And I guess the probably
[20:51] the most important question is if
someone put an easement on your property
[20:54] that you currently have and it's about
10 ft from your front door, but you
[20:59] think very highly about buying that
property. So it it is a concern.
[21:04] » And how much is acorage is on the other
side, the north side of the building?
[21:09] » Well, the whole lot is approximately an
acre. So
[21:11] » and is it in flood plan?
>> Uh none of it is formally in a flood
[21:15] plan.
ter
[21:19] septic system is on the other side.
>> The septic system is away opposite on
[21:24] the north side on near the near the
stream but I I believe it's within the
[21:29] guidelines the state has mandated for a
distance no buffers no. So, Alyssa first
[21:36] and then Mike. Yep, that's it.
>> Um, Alyssa,
[21:40] would you stand up, please?
[21:46] » Do you have a copy of the easement
>> that I could look at?
[21:53] » I'd be happy to email it to you. It's
also in the town opposite in the land
[21:57] records.
>> Okay. I was uh from
[22:02] gold to the town of Brookline book 16
pages 13 14.
[22:16] So, uh, you're Mike Satan. So, what's
what does it cost the town right now to
[22:24] run this building without a tenants and
that if we were to sell it potentially,
[22:30] what type of tax will we generate from
the building, sell it, right? So, I'm
[22:36] we're modeling all that. Uh, we have
some of those numbers at the at the
[22:42] moment until we refine the numbers a
little further. Uh we're going slow with
[22:46] putting them out there because once you
put a number out there, it's cast in
[22:49] stone. So uh so I I we have numbers for
those and this is not the purpose of
[22:56] this meeting. It's more to hear what
people want to do. Uh tonight I'm afraid
[23:01] if I start putting numbers out there,
you know, but I'm putting all the
[23:05] numbers out there.
>> It's might help people if they knew what
[23:08] it was costing us now to keep this
building potentially. You must hear
[23:12] that.
>> Okay. Yeah. What it's costing us now is
[23:17] probably we we originally budgeted about
$15,000
[23:22] to keep this building in a kind of a
semi mothball state
[23:26] » and it's costing us more than that.
>> Okay.
[23:29] » Annually
>> and annually. Yeah. The numbers I'm so
[23:32] annually. So where right now we're
estimating there'd be in the low 20s 20
[23:36] 21,000 if we just did nothing and kept
this building as it is. Okay. That's a
[23:41] pretty solid number estimate. Thanks,
Mike.
[23:48] » Margaret
Margaret Parisa. Um, how many acres are
[23:53] here?
>> Uh, it's it's there's little question on
[23:59] that. Right now, we've been assuming
it's 6.81 81 acres.
[24:05] But, uh, there are some discrepancies
with the tax map. Uh, when I logged on
[24:12] to the ANRG, the Vermont GIS site, it
showed some weird
[24:18] drawing outline of where the town
property is. It It's not containing this
[24:24] part of the school. It's containing the
other part. And it's not uh and there's
[24:29] an extension that's supposedly I should
say an easement
[24:34] that was done
back early uh that expires in I think it
[24:40] is 20 45. It's a 50 foot wide easement
that goes from the road all the way back
[24:48] to the river. And you look at where the
surveyor put that it goes right through
[24:53] this part of the school. So the person
at Cardographics in Brattleboro when the
[24:59] listener sent the copy of the survey
they left that out of the drawing. So
[25:04] although it says 6.81
there could be an acre that's maybe
[25:10] attributable to that total bringing it
to approximately 7.74 acres.
[25:17] So there's there's a little ambiguity
there.
[25:22] Um Barbara and then Gary
So uh that doesn't it does that include
[25:28] the ball field um or is it just it
doesn't it doesn't close the ball fin
[25:33] that's a separate piece isn't it wasn't
that was given from the weather was over
[25:39] here
>> oh piece
[25:42] » I believe it was but there there's the
next lot where the playground is that
[25:47] was a separate lot
uh there's a requirement on that but now
[25:53] that the town owns it all we straighten
it out. So, whatever we do will simplify
[25:57] things for the future. Uh, but yes, that
part is a part of the 6.8 acres.
[26:04] I believe the playground is
approximately another acre and again the
[26:09] 50 foot by however long the this
easement is is another parcel. Uh the
[26:14] weather low parcel also contains the
area behind the meeting house. It goes
[26:19] down to the next property which um
yeah Rick thank you uh goes down that
[26:26] far. So I don't know if that answers the
question. Oh right.
[26:31] So Stan the it's the ball field down
here past the stone wall. Yes. And it
[26:37] wraps the weather when they gifted that
to the town. It goes behind this
[26:42] property to the church
>> past the church.
[26:45] » Uhhuh.
>> Yeah. There was a second de another deed
[26:48] from another person that contains the
playground out here.
[26:51] » Uhhuh.
[26:54] » But I believe this lot which is not part
of the ement is also part of the weather
[26:59] lot that you're referring to.
[27:04] » Jerry Leornia. We live in northern
Brooklyn. We're not really getting
[27:12] not planning to move to Southern Lane.
>> Yeah.
[27:18] It's confusing for me for this building.
>> Who has the I I made a mistake. I got to
[27:26] clarify. Thank you, Gary. You pointed
it. You actually subtly pointed out it's
[27:30] not an easement. It's leased land
>> and it expires I believe it is uh 2045.
[27:38] So who are we leasing from?
>> Well originally it was leased from the
[27:42] church that owned the meeting house.
They leased it
[27:49] » no fee just
>> you leased they leased it. So it has an
[27:53] expiration date but the comforting part
is Mike is a one time or two is that the
[27:57] town now owns it all. So you can you can
dissolve the lease, free that issue up.
[28:02] You can dissolve the requirement that
the playground out here supposed to have
[28:06] a fence all the way around it which it
doesn't. Um and I think we got a shared
[28:12] well with the So you have to want you
want to maintain that or not.
[28:15] » Well, there's no there's no um
penalty for doing the easement. I mean
[28:23] it revert back to the original land
owners.
[28:25] » It would revert back to the original.
Yeah. If you wanted to take that route.
[28:28] Yeah.
>> I mean, who who is that?
[28:30] » Well, right now it's the town and
original in terms of deed. If you deed
[28:34] property to the next person, that person
gets the easements that are associated
[28:38] with that deed. So, it's all been done
legally, orderly. So, the town now has
[28:44] is the ownership of the leased land
that's leased to the what was the school
[28:48] department of the town of Brooklyn, but
now because of the local resil is to the
[28:52] town of Brooklyn, which you voted on
back in 2014.
[28:58] Yeah, it's
an interesting question.
[29:03] » Okay. Um Dan and then Sure.
>> just just a point of fact or
[29:10] information. Um
this building shares [clears throat] a
[29:14] well with the church property, right?
>> Yes. Correct.
[29:18] » Not only that must be adequate to supply
the water that was used when this
[29:24] building was used. Uh, is that a fair
assumption?
[29:27] » Yes.
>> Um, and what sort of
[29:32] septic does this building have on this
property?
[29:35] » It was originally designed for 95
students. When Sunny Line Daycare took
[29:40] it over, they installed a kitchen over
here and that required a freestand. They
[29:46] reapplied to ANR for a permit to operate
it with 55, I'm sorry, with a number of
[29:52] students. Said, "How many can we have
here?" the state wrote back and said
[29:56] it's good for 55 students. So now it's
55 students
[30:00] » because of the sink or because of the
>> Yeah, there was a stove they had grease
[30:06] and so forth. So
>> yeah,
[30:08] » what is the date of the septic system
that's serves this you know and and does
[30:14] it conform to whatever [clears throat]
the state presently?
[30:18] » Well, they gave the permit so it does
comp it does comply. Yeah,
[30:22] » they wouldn't have if they if they felt
it wasn't they would have made some
[30:26] changes. Um
>> if actually a correlated question I
[30:30] guess if the building's used changed
from what it was
[30:34] uh would that require an upgrade of some
sort.
[30:38] » What I've looked into that it does
require another application identifying
[30:43] uh the change. I have gone online
through ANR's website and looked at two
[30:49] other properties that have gone through
changes from either a church or the one
[30:54] in Vernon that was a store. Um because
it was a store uh with a snack bar
[31:00] restaurant, they had a pretty good
number of uh gallons they could pump
[31:04] into the septic system because of that.
in the in the one in uh South New Fang.
[31:13] It it was a church and it had a a
reasonable size for a very small
[31:18] halfacre lot, good size seage system
there. In both cases, when the
[31:23] developers applied to ANR, ANR looked at
the capacity in under the prior system
[31:30] and gave both applicants an okay on it.
Uh that it met uh the requirements. The
[31:37] only change that happened on the which
would not apply to this well it might
[31:42] depending on what use was being utilized
is that uh because the property in
[31:49] Vernon was being converted from that
store restaurant to five one-bedroom
[31:54] units. The ANR people required a
220galon water tank [clears throat] be
[31:59] placed in the basement that was fed by
the well. So there was a a reserve
[32:05] available should all of them decided to
take a shower at the same time or wash
[32:10] their car or whatever and they but
that's the only requirement for current
[32:15] usage of that property they required in
the south new fame property they said oh
[32:21] there's only you know we're one bedroom
two people per one bedroom prior septic
[32:25] system had that in the capacity I did
for the church so you you're okay you
[32:29] don't need to do a thing I'm suspecting
that if this building were be used for
[32:34] some other purpose, we'd probably get
the same admitable scenario from the
[32:37] state that those other people got. But
it's a good question that you've asked
[32:41] definitely.
Oh, I will say one other thing. Uh the
[32:46] the the property and we don't have this
problem currently unless we were to
[32:50] split up and make this a smaller lot. In
the Vernon case, the state said you've
[32:58] only got one leechfield and it's right
at the point in the triangle where the
[33:03] where the two roads meet, group 142 and
and another road. What we're going to
[33:08] require is that you install a specific
filtration septic system.
[33:14] It's probably one and a half times the
normal septic system that filters out
[33:18] prefilters out the water before it goes
into the leaf field. Then that was the
[33:22] and they don't have to put it in now.
They only have to put it in if the
[33:26] original system fails. So pretty decent.
>> Actually, just a followup. Quick
[33:33] followup is is any part of this property
extending all the way to the recycling
[33:40] container, which I guess it does. Uh is
any part of this property in a flood
[33:45] plane?
>> Not currently.
[33:46] » No. Okay. Sort of surprising given
So, but I've been here since 88
[33:56] and this probably has not happened.
>> That's right.
[34:02] » Okay, Alyssa. And then listen.
>> Um,
[34:06] has the easement ever been used at the
town office? Does anyone know?
[34:12] » Good question. I don't think so. I
>> I'm not aware of it, but that doesn't
[34:16] mean it doesn't happen.
[34:24] Thank you,
>> Leslie. And then Martney, did you want
[34:27] to speak?
>> Well, thinking of the second, um, if
[34:32] it's you got room for 55 people, does
that mean that theoretically you put up
[34:38] 55 apartments here and
>> or does
[34:45] property can handle how many people? So
meaning
[34:53] or or does the does the math somehow
translate differently so that you can
[34:58] have 55 students but maybe they're not
living here and therefore it's only 40
[35:04] appro
I don't have to ask that question. My
[35:09] suspicion is that part of the reason
that we're meeting here today that the
[35:14] select board is interested and I think
all the committee members if I'm wrong
[35:17] correct me is the fact that uh the town
I would assume the citizens would like
[35:23] to control what comes here. So you can
put restrictive
[35:27] in that it only be used for residential
purposes and possibly limit the size of
[35:33] those or the number of those. It's it's
a question that's a good question, but I
[35:38] I think that it probably would scare
most of us in this room to
[35:41] [clears throat] know that we have 55
units on this lot.
[35:47] » Thinking in terms of what is the limit
to the property. So, for example, the
[35:51] other the town hall at the moment should
take no more than x number of people,
[35:57] but here there's the opportunity for
more people potentially. So even though
[36:02] I'm not suggesting a skyscraper,
um it's interesting to know whether
[36:08] they're
rooms are 10 units versus four units
[36:15] versus I I'd be happy to look and ask
them if they tell me for free without
[36:20] actually filing an application to get
some help for you, but I I'm suspicious
[36:26] they probably wouldn't do that or
suspect they wouldn't do that. So I uh
[36:29] I'm sorry I couldn't answer your
question.
[36:34] » Leslie and then Johnny.
>> Yes. So my question was very similar to
[36:38] that. What kinds of restrictions would
be put on this building for use and who
[36:43] puts those restrictions
on us?
[36:48] » Uh that's one question. And then the
other is what reasons have been given
[36:53] for why the existing town hall might not
be sufficient anymore?
[37:06] So you might be you might be implying
the wrong thing. There has not been any
[37:10] conclusion that the town office is
sufficient.
[37:13] » Okay. Uh it's it's I think one of the
this this building folks would say would
[37:19] give you more flexibility because you
could do town hall plus
[37:23] » and then uh the second thing is that
there was a presumption for a while that
[37:28] and there still is that you know the
marketability of this building versus
[37:32] the marketability of that may be
materially different. Uh the the
[37:37] marketability of commercial space like
this is you know they're all over the
[37:42] place. uh and and launch as a single
home might might be more marketable.
[37:49] » Very good.
>> But and but none of it and then um that
[37:52] those are the kind of things I have been
hearing but but none of it is cast in
[37:57] stone and none of it about like the town
office is insufficient.
[38:02] I don't think we think with any
identification that that our town office
[38:06] is insufficient for our needs. Right. In
fact, one thing that uh Stan did was he
[38:11] looked at other towns of uh other towns
and the size of their town halls and uh
[38:20] concluded looking at the uh square
footage, the population of the town that
[38:26] uh the Brooklyn town hall is pretty much
on par with other town halls, even for
[38:31] towns that are considerably bigger than
ours. So it's not like we have this tiny
[38:35] little town hall for this gigantic town.
We have a little town and a sufficient
[38:41] town hall uh when compared to other
towns.
[38:46] » And then just in reference to the
earlier question about who puts
[38:50] restrictions on this. Did I understand
that it's the town that would do that?
[38:54] zoning
[38:58] state or nobody else can think what kind
of uses
[39:02] » they don't have zoning here. So pretty
we're pretty flexible.
[39:06] » Johnny
two points. Uh one I'm going to stick
[39:10] with my nitpicky semantics.
The town office should be called the
[39:14] town office not the town hall.
>> It's not a town hall. town halls and
[39:17] buildings are very different from
multiple buildings than
[39:22] which was last time you were here would
be called the town building. Um that's
[39:27] been corrected. Um the other thing is
that the student listing of 55 students
[39:34] negates the fact having kids go there
that there are adults in the numbers
[39:40] too. So probably more like 65. You're
talking 55 students. model.
[39:46] » I'll rephrase my statement which again I
apologize for. Individuals I didn't mean
[39:51] to imply that was only students. It's 55
individuals. You could go online and
[39:56] » No, I'm just saying when when you're a
student, the numbers I'm imagining 55,
[39:59] it's your
fine realistically. I hope that would be
[40:08] » um
>> Marne you wanted to say something and
[40:11] then Laura
>> I was just thinking my question was what
[40:14] can it physically handle so the septic
system can there's only the option here
[40:21] for a larger number of people whereas
there's probably not the option there
[40:26] whereas the people can choose to make
any restrictions so our voting is
[40:33] different than what's physically
possible, but I just want to say I was
[40:37] asking about what's physically possible.
[40:43] » So my question kind of um comes off of
hers is that so there's one well
[40:50] um can either property get its own well?
>> Oh yeah.
[40:55] » So there there's Okay. And how about the
septic system? Is there two se separate
[41:00] septic systems? very familiar with
those.
[41:05] » It's easy to split.
[41:14] » I would just say that while it's nice to
know this stuff, right? It's a good good
[41:18] to have this information. Septic systems
can be replaced, new wells can be dug.
[41:23] It's not a particular limiting factor
other than, you know, time and money.
[41:27] » Time and money. But uh if we're not
overly limited by those state law
[41:34] that let's say can't afford to do
something about it.
[41:40] » Um yes too
core. Um I guess bringing back you know
[41:45] this this lady's question. When we lived
back in Pennsylvania, the developer of a
[41:51] sizable property failed to make repairs
to his septic sewer system for the
[41:57] development and in the end township was
forced to take over at a cost to them. I
[42:06] don't know what the rules are here in
the state of Vermont. They're still
[42:09] pretty new [clears throat]
>> and I know this will be down the road,
[42:14] but is there anything like that in here
where the town could be liable to assume
[42:19] responsibility for a fail
to property?
[42:25] I wouldn't know how to respond to that
other than it would seem to me
[42:30] well I don't want to I don't want to
legal stuff but I don't know how they
[42:35] would have gotten a permit if they have
a permitting system to put in something
[42:38] like that without having to
>> they did so over the course of the 10
[42:45] years they just failed to
>> oh I don't
[42:50] shouldn't be someone else's fault
>> well the township got stuck taking it
[42:54] done
>> I I have no idea what the parable center
[42:56] did, but
[43:01] » Okay, Dan.
>> Um, I just wanted clarification and this
[43:05] may not be relevant to the state either,
but I know in real estate that you can't
[43:12] put stipulations on your buyer if you're
if they're doing what you know the code
[43:20] is. we aren't necessarily allow to or
we're allowed to say we don't want more
[43:26] than three units and we don't want these
kind of tenants like if you sold the
[43:30] property
I mean that doesn't but
[43:36] » I I
am under the understanding that a seller
[43:41] can put covenants on property that it
sells and and that term I believe
[43:48] includes that and I'm not an attorney
and I don't stand here alleging that I
[43:53] am. I would probably refer the town hire
an attorney that might be able to answer
[44:00] that question.
>> Yeah. Okay. Because I just if it's like
[44:04] sounds great if we get to say we don't
have 40 units here, but [clears throat]
[44:09] do we actually want to be able to say
that?
[44:12] » I'm going to talk about the research. I
can let you know.
[44:15] » Yeah. You know, some of us
>> we know he's looking into that. I can
[44:19] look into that more. I don't know if
anyone has looked at their deeds. Some
[44:22] of you might have mobile home
restrictions. I've seen those a lot
[44:24] looking at properties here. Um, so that
you know, people sell it and they say
[44:29] you can't ever put a mobile home on this
again. Um, I don't know. I don't know
[44:34] Vermont property laws if there's
anything that specifically says you
[44:36] can't, but generally you can put
restrictive covenants in a deed. Um, I
[44:41] bet most realtors would tell you not to
if you want to get a good price.
[44:45] uh not a lot of people want to accept
something with a lot of restrictions.
[44:49] But yeah,
>> I think that's um you've touched on
[44:54] something would be valuable to know more
about is what options does the town have
[45:00] to
say what comes next here if we sell this
[45:05] and how would that affect
the market ability of property? So say
[45:10] if it's even possible to do that. Go
ahead. Marjgerie.
[45:14] » Uh Marjorie Ray, I was wondering are any
parts of the building actually um I know
[45:20] we have an old front section but is it
considered historical? Is it like part
[45:24] covered as a historical building?
>> My understanding is no.
[45:29] » So you can put the vault anywhere.
>> Hope you don't have to worry about a
[45:33] window.
>> It's old but it's not historical or any
[45:38] registry or anything. All right. Uh
Bruce and then Gary Bruce Mellow. Uh I
[45:43] can't answer your question is what Mark
said because it's not on historic
[45:48] registry. The building from this
building that you're sitting right now
[45:52] was built in 1929. So you can look at it
for your own opinion whether you think
[45:57] it's historical or not. The second thing
I would like to point to is I would like
[46:02] to back up for a second about an
observation I made about the town office
[46:06] this morning with respect to the
easement. I I wanted to go walking in
[46:11] there to see
[46:30] that
[46:36] comment to it.
When you read what you're finding
[46:55] [laughter]
[47:00] over the stream
along the road and then come straight
[47:06] that two
of the concrete bridge near the town
[47:11] office and the stand
ft both front and back was almost a
[47:17] square but not quite
I don't think
[47:35] I don't know
[47:37] And then
you say you met two realtor. Did they
[47:41] get a report
[47:46] of selling it with the market value?
>> He did. But the first time we spoke to
[47:52] the facility, Robert from
he said the top
[48:18] elementary propert,000
[48:25] square foot building.
[48:30] So there's what he said was there's a
lot of
[48:35] virtually
[48:53] sheated
[49:07] One of the comments that
said
[49:15] commercial.
[49:26] So
the entities that
[49:32] members here married uh as well that
they made some inquiries when and we
[49:38] also contacted um
a what's called ACCD is now DC
[49:44] something. Uh they have funded a lot of
projects throughout the state. Uh the
[49:50] director sent out a list to me. Uh and I
know Mary got a similar one for me. She
[49:56] checked with and what you'll see there
on my list there were six different
[50:00] parcels that were developed.
All five of the six went residential
[50:06] because the closing shortage was easier
to get grants for it. All the
[50:10] complexities that go on with commercial.
There was one of those six that went
[50:14] half residential, half commercial. So
the biggest option, the most
[50:20] advantageous position would be should
the citizens choose selling this
[50:25] building would be looking at residential
use. It' be the more marketable of the
[50:29] two.
Um just as a point of comparison and
[50:33] South Newane um there was a um there was
a nonprofit uh New South community
[50:41] association. It was given a donation of
a church uh and it then sold that church
[50:49] to a smallcale developer who is going to
turn it into two or three residential
[50:53] units.
>> Two two
[50:57] um the asking price initially was uh
$299,000.
[51:02] It sold for $56,000.
So just sent to the mark. That said,
[51:08] there's a big need for housing. there is
uh grant money to people who are
[51:13] developing housing. Uh so I guess the
developer felt it was a a good thing
[51:20] $56,000 and whatever he has to put into
it. He will then either sell these or
[51:26] rent these residential.
>> Can I just Did I read this wrong? So it
[51:30] says that it sold for 6 56,000 down from
the asking price to
[51:36] » I I missed a comma. It should be it sold
for $56,000
[51:41] mama. That is down from the asking price
of $299,000.
[51:51] » And then Bruce,
>> um I don't have
[51:55] a opinion or an objective with a
statement shortly. Just registering
[52:01] slight disagreement about the easement
and the viability of selling that
[52:06] parcel. Um, in terms of I think Stan,
you were just stating it makes it much
[52:11] less desirable. Um, sure, easements are
great not knowing who's going to come
[52:17] and go, but essentially I kind of see it
as a driveway to get to this other
[52:21] property. So, it would just be, you
know, that family or whoever's
[52:25] associated with that family. And it's
very very common in Vermont that a lot
[52:29] of people live absolutely right on the
side of, you know, main corridors that
[52:35] are very, you know, populated compared
to an easement that's getting people not
[52:42] even to a full-time residential home.
So, I just I'm not trying to say I think
[52:47] that building should be sold. I'm not
trained. I'm just simply stating I don't
[52:51] know
how
[52:54] much of a negative impact it is.
Unless it's used here for logging,
[53:01] » Bruce.
>> Well, there's a huge uh committee. There
[53:05] were several or three realtors that went
to both buildings.
[53:09] Can you share with everybody what they
what those realtors thought of the
[53:15] marketability of the town office?
Robert Doyle was the first one to see
[53:20] the town office of the two realtors and
we were brainstorming. Ly was there and
[53:26] uh I others he uh yeah he said um that
if you sold it to somebody to turn it
[53:35] into a primary home, you could visualize
walking in having the kitchen to the
[53:41] left, the master bathroom about where
the vault is part of the bathroom that's
[53:47] there now, but building it into where
the vault is now. having two bedrooms uh
[53:52] where the back meeting room is. There's
lots of closet space there. And then
[53:57] that leaves a very small living area,
but Lyall had the great idea maybe
[54:02] getting rid of the basement access so
that you'd have more room on the first
[54:07] floor and then you'd have to go outside
and into a bulkhead to get to the
[54:12] basement, but it would give you more
living space. So, all of this was pie in
[54:15] the sky. What would you do? And uh if
the town decided to sell that building
[54:22] and sold it to um a spec builder who
wanted to say pay $100,000 for it and
[54:30] then sell it as a primary residence for
say 200,000. All of these are pie in the
[54:36] sky numbers. Um that could be a
possibility because there is a shortage
[54:41] of housing in the area of houses that
are in that price range. Um, we did talk
[54:48] about the pros and cons that if it were
sold that the parking for the round
[54:52] schoolhouse would no longer be available
across the street. Um, but uh that was
[54:59] where we left it with Robert Dy. We
wanted to make it very clear that this
[55:04] was all back in the envelope thinking
and nothing written in stone. Uh, and at
[55:11] the time that we met with him, we didn't
quite know about, we didn't know what
[55:16] the uh, specifics of the easement were,
but he said that, you know, you can sell
[55:22] a property with an easement, but it
probably will bring the property value
[55:25] down somewhat depending. It's all in the
eye of the buyer.
[55:30] Fortunately, [clears throat] the realtor
that I had asked to come gave a number
[55:34] for this building, but they have not.
And even though I've asked a number from
[55:38] the other building, so I can't add to
that any man, shape or form.
[55:43] » I opinion though is that this building a
lot more value that building
[55:50] and she just she could not say a reason
why you think that has come to this
[55:54] building in what you saw. So she didn't
really bother to address it for that was
[56:00] her those are her two and then she came
back with the number on this building.
[56:05] Okay, Dan first and then moderate second
and then Johnny third. Um I'm just in
[56:12] asking questions more at the moment, but
um I wonder if it would be uh in
[56:18] addition to the couple of realtors
you've spoken with, um
[56:23] maybe talk to somebody who's developed
um
[56:28] say residential property in this area to
find out um
[56:34] would they envision if they were to
purchase this property for residential
[56:39] use, would They would they be inclined
to keep this building or just tear it
[56:44] down and build something altogether new?
And the same goes for the town office
[56:48] properties. Would that building be you
know demolished to make way for
[56:54] something else or would they adapt that
present building or housing as you were
[56:58] describing? I just was wondering if that
>> so we are trying to connect with
[57:03] smallcale developers to just try to
throw out there hey if if this building
[57:08] were to come on the market what sort of
interest might there be we've been in
[57:12] touch with um the Vermont um office of
housing which has a program uh for this
[57:20] is this is so common around the state
and this t the state has a program for
[57:25] developers where they share resources
it's called homes for All we're trying
[57:30] to connect with people from there to get
answers to some of those questions.
[57:36] » Thank you.
>> Martin, you were next and then Johnny
[57:38] Swing.
>> Guess I have I have two comments. Uh
[57:42] let's say we end up selling this
building.
[57:45] » Where do we meet
[57:50] » is
[57:54] not a town hall.
town office is not all and um
[57:59] » um I don't know if all of us would fit
into that back living room. That's why
[58:06] we're meeting here.
>> Brooklyn meeting. I was right there.
[58:10] » That's a possibility. And then we also
talked about there are places that we
[58:15] could rent for the town meeting or you
know town meeting. So it's definitely
[58:19] there are options.
>> I mean there buildings all over the
[58:23] place that could be
else.
[58:27] » And the other thing I know you keep
talking about the South New Church, but
[58:30] what's that acre land? We have six,
>> right? And I think if you want to
[58:35] continue to try to compare the math to
their property, I think we need to find
[58:40] some other ones with that throughout the
state because a lack of affordable
[58:46] workingass
housing is what we need if we need
[58:50] anything built throughout the entire
state. And um it's very stressing that I
[58:57] mean that's a lot of depressive things
going on around but but that was my is
[59:04] we just see some other options where
they have a big piece of property that's
[59:08] like an acre. We had also been in touch
um with the Windhams and Windsor Housing
[59:13] Trust which um is a it's so in Northern
Vermont there's something called Rural
[59:19] Edge which has taken a lot of buildings,
school buildings, old churches and
[59:23] turned them into small rental units.
Nobody's talking like 40 units and
[59:28] nothing. They're really two or four or
six. Um, we were in touch with this
[59:33] Windham Windsor Trust and they were not
interested because they only deal with
[59:39] uh buildings that have municipal
services. Um, so so that was one avenue
[59:44] we went down. It was sort of a dead end,
but we're continuing to pursue whatever
[59:49] we can find out. I mean, there's just so
much out there in terms of the state and
[59:53] housing funding and programs. is just a
lot and so we're looking into as much as
[59:59] we can without sort of since no
decisions made we can't really go too
[1:00:03] deep down the road but we're trying to
learn as much as we can
[1:00:08] » um I slightly
disagree have a different view of value
[1:00:13] this building um
having had friends that come up to look
[1:00:18] at places to to buy or move here there's
virtually nothing built um that house
[1:00:25] just north of Dutton 's farm stand on
Route 30 sold for $300,000.
[1:00:31] That shack
three of the properties on flooded twice
[1:00:36] a year.
>> Um I see this building is worth much
[1:00:40] more in the four to five range. I just
can't imagine houses that are selling
[1:00:45] around here for 300 are chunk and you're
you know up in the four range more.
[1:00:53] You get somebody from New York City come
in here, an artist, you know, somebody
[1:00:56] successful to come in here and just make
this into a studio and a garage
[1:01:00] downstairs. Like, whoa. You don't have
to you don't have to develop or
[1:01:03] anything. Just let somebody's
imagination go wild. You know, it's you
[1:01:07] know, I would much rather live in
Brooklyn than off the edge of Route 30.
[1:01:10] » Yeah. And and when we're talking you
can't, you know, 300 seems like a high
[1:01:14] side. I'm like 300 seems like a rock
bottom.
[1:01:19] I'm faffled by by by
now. Are you suggesting going to the
[1:01:24] market as is? I'm saying if you thought
of selling this, I would certainly go to
[1:01:28] the market as is with stipulations. I
think you could literally say a single
[1:01:32] family unit has to be and this place
would go in a week at 450.
[1:01:37] » That's that's interesting. So I mean the
property in Dmerston on on up on Hill's
[1:01:42] farm
every house up there has been marketed
[1:01:46] between 6 and 8 and they are on the
market for three days
[1:01:50] and and yes Hill's farm is definitely
walk you know not walking distance but
[1:01:55] you know five minutes to the best
grocery stores. Brooklyn's very
[1:01:58] different but Brooklyn's really special.
You come across this bridge this town
[1:02:02] has such a wonderful feeling.
Everybody's going there for everybody.
[1:02:06] It's it's a like a breath of fresh air.
you're not caught up on Route 30. It's a
[1:02:11] it's a really amazing town and I'm just
baffled to hear that this this building
[1:02:18] which I see could be somebody's home
chaply or multi-units.
[1:02:24] » You know, this could be divided into two
or three units and still go for 200 a
[1:02:28] unit. I just I think I think the numbers
are off of what you're getting
[1:02:32] » when you hear of that property just
north of Dutton for 300. Charm of the
[1:02:37] town has always been we're on the way to
nowhere.
[1:02:42] [clears throat]
[1:02:46] » Sorry.
[1:02:49] » You may be absolutely right. They're
just recording what?
[1:02:51] » Yeah, I know. I'm saying I just I'm a
different view.
[1:02:56] » Well, I like the art the artist view.
>> Well, it's not just
[1:03:01] coming up to New York City. There is
absolutely nothing available right now.
[1:03:04] Like and you know I heard you mention
100,000 it's like a h 100,000 you
[1:03:09] couldn't you couldn't find a trailer for
100,000 200 there's that was only two
[1:03:15] realtors I have a third realtor lined up
when I come back and if you have other
[1:03:20] realtor Grayson you know Grayson right
he just he just bought a house and moved
[1:03:25] to south you know to west but I
>> so any suggestions on who we should talk
[1:03:32] to would be super helpful
>> I think it's buyer right this minute.
[1:03:39] I'm sure
I think this time because I I I'm in
[1:03:44] support of what you're saying and you
you know don't really know right but but
[1:03:47] it could very well be worth all that
just in order of while I'm not going to
[1:03:51] present numbers tonight. Um I am a
numbers guy and if and the numbers that
[1:03:57] we've crunched so far they've been
screened a little bit but but they they
[1:04:02] could change so not to say what they are
but if in order of magnitude and it's
[1:04:06] not insignificant gaps the most
expensive thing for us to do according
[1:04:11] to my modeling is to do nothing just sit
on everything. That's the most expensive
[1:04:16] scenario. Uh, by the way, when we used
to rent this out, uh, it used to cover
[1:04:22] not only the cost of this building to
operate, but the cost of the town hall.
[1:04:25] So, we actually had a little profit
center when the nurse when
[1:04:30] so
now so now we're going to now we're
[1:04:35] going to the you know, we do nothing
worst case, right? So, so the clock is a
[1:04:39] little bit ticking on that. Uh, but just
so to move the town office here and to
[1:04:46] uh uh, you know, have space to do other
stuff and sell that building at at some
[1:04:50] of the we talked about is kind of and
and I've been measuring over 10 year
[1:04:54] period. Okay. And the next one down is
move the town office year. That's the
[1:05:00] second uh most expensive.
Now, that could change could change
[1:05:04] depending on uh the third
uh lowest cost option, if you will, is
[1:05:11] if we could find a a tenant that didn't
even pay too much money, but would then
[1:05:16] cover the cost of operating the
building, you know, the heat, light, and
[1:05:19] power, and maybe pay us a little rent
that would be the next lease expensive
[1:05:24] or whatever you want to say. number
three and and
[1:05:28] uh materially so if we could get any
reasonable amount for this building
[1:05:33] whether it be 200 whether it be 300
whether it be 400 is materially the
[1:05:38] lowcost option and comes with a risk you
know I think I've heard some of the risk
[1:05:43] in the statements that folks are making
who's coming in what are they going to
[1:05:46] do
>> uh and and but but just by order of
[1:05:49] magnitude selling this building so far
on paper purely is is the lowcost option
[1:05:56] Nothing is the highest town hall to red
school three.
[1:06:01] And does the have you have you ranked
the most profitable versions because the
[1:06:08] cost is not necessarily
>> that is that it's all in all in so as a
[1:06:12] matter of fact we do if we depending on
what we get for the school right I think
[1:06:16] we have to spend some money to make it
readily available depending on what we
[1:06:21] get we could have a profit
>> well
[1:06:24] » I'll call well except that if you put in
units here then the revenue to the Now
[1:06:31] with taxes
>> well I'm factoring in tax. I'm back to
[1:06:34] your assumption about if this became a
taxable property what might the property
[1:06:39] taxes be and and uh that would be a
benefit of selling this building that
[1:06:44] was in in all likelihood it would become
a tax paying propert. So that's all in
[1:06:49] my mind all in the model.
>> How many units did you was your high
[1:06:54] number of unit?
>> I just have a dollar amount. I don't I
[1:06:56] don't I don't I I units I'm like what
could I get for this building? It's not
[1:07:01] about the unit. It's about the building
and generally speaking the square
[1:07:04] footage and generally speaking what
residential properties pay per square
[1:07:08] foot in town back again
>> uh Gary and then Pat two points. Yes. In
[1:07:17] the original meeting we had for this
Sally Fagley volunteered to get into
[1:07:23] this. Did anybody check with her?
>> No, but I I actually had thought about
[1:07:28] reaching out to her and will
>> she mentioned that she would be
[1:07:31] interested in looking at the market and
making a report.
[1:07:35] » We'll reach out to her. I think the more
realtors we speak to the better.
[1:07:38] » The second point is that seems like to
sell this commercially is not viable
[1:07:44] » and that housing residential seems to be
the way to go. So I wouldn't even
[1:07:49] consider trying to get commercial people
in here with the extra expense of the
[1:07:54] Franklin etc.
[1:07:59] » Um Pat you're next and then we
>> um so in your modeling that you're doing
[1:08:05] you have some models that just have the
school and the immediate yardage
[1:08:10] property around it with a field separate
and town kept the field separate.
[1:08:14] » Yeah. Yes. I think we made an assumption
about, you know, that S had said some
[1:08:19] things at meetings about, you know, this
playground go a septic out here goes out
[1:08:24] to that driveway or whatever and then
we'd keep the
[1:08:27] » feel. But it's it's not that refined yet
that I could say I've adequately
[1:08:34] incorporated that, but we assume that we
wouldn't necessarily need to sell off
[1:08:37] the fields.
>> We would sell what we need to sell.
[1:08:41] » Yes.
[1:08:44] And then Barbara,
>> um, my comment was pretty much on fire
[1:08:49] with Pats. Just wondering that
additional acreage that is the field,
[1:08:54] which I I understand might be nice for
the town to continue to to have if they
[1:09:00] want to do something on it. But just the
fact that since I've been here in 22 or
[1:09:05] 23 years, I haven't seen anything go on
in that. and that it may be additional
[1:09:11] revenue for the town at a time that we
might need it also with maybe
[1:09:16] restrictions or would the option to buy
when this pro if this property was sold
[1:09:22] for the people that was buying. I'm just
thinking there's there's some some
[1:09:26] really good options and I and the best
use okay
[1:09:31] » for the town and a separate sale of that
land has not been something I've
[1:09:35] incorporated yet into my assumption. So
that's a good point that even more.
[1:09:40] » Okay, Barbara already and then Julie.
>> Um my question is is can we advertise
[1:09:46] this as a rental property just to see if
there's an interest of anyone, you know,
[1:09:54] before we made money on it. Um anyone
that they care for, but there might be
[1:09:59] another interest in it. Um, is there
an interest or a a reason why we
[1:10:08] couldn't you know advertise it just to
see if there is anyone who wants to rent
[1:10:12] it?
>> So, can we do that without the approval
[1:10:16] of the residents? My understanding was
we were going to sort of it was going to
[1:10:21] be up to the town what we wanted to do.
Are you suggesting just sort of was it
[1:10:24] to test the waters? Yes. put it on to
real,
[1:10:29] » how would we know if it was viable to
rent it if we did make money on it um in
[1:10:34] the past that maybe it would be
>> Yeah. I guess if somebody came in
[1:10:39] tomorrow and said, "Hey, I want to rent
a place." And it was a reasonable number
[1:10:42] and it, you know, helped us enough.
>> Yeah.
[1:10:46] » Yeah.
>> I guess the select board could say,
[1:10:49] "Hey, let's do that." And by the way,
time out. We're not going to do that
[1:10:53] other thing that we said we're going to
do for a couple years. would have put on
[1:10:56] ice for a couple of year.
>> That's a scenario that's possible. It's
[1:11:00] not nothing nothing keep us from doing
that other than we kind of be changing
[1:11:05] the game if you will
>> like pop rentals for winter
[1:11:10] you know Christmas
I don't
[1:11:13] next year in
>> but I'd like to piggy back on our
[1:11:18] comment which is it's a lot easier to
sell property than it is to buy and if
[1:11:22] the town owns this property it would be
really I think the most advantageous
[1:11:26] thing would be to figure out a way to
keep the property and not lose money
[1:11:30] which would be op, you know, if
Barbara's idea or option three could
[1:11:34] could be figured out. And it's just it
seems shortsighted to sell property.
[1:11:40] » We could always vote as a town to do
exactly that. It's one of the scenarios.
[1:11:45] » No. No.
>> And then if it if it fails, right, and
[1:11:47] try to do it, then we come back and say,
>> "Hey, it's not worth it."
[1:11:52] » Right. Right now it's an anchor and it's
a problem. Right. But but you know if if
[1:11:55] it was marketed properly and it didn't
have to be sold it would be a wonderful
[1:11:59] asset for the town to continue you know
having this and you see plenty of
[1:12:02] situations where towns
sell property and like 20 years later
[1:12:06] like damn it I wish we still had that.
Sure. Like
[1:12:09] » well that's optional list right now is
is to keep it and rent it,
[1:12:13] » right? The other question sort of
piggybacks on that which is say the
[1:12:17] property sold regardless of what it's
sold for. I assume that the money goes
[1:12:20] into the town's coffers and therefore
somehow either lessens the tax burden or
[1:12:25] enables us to buy something else or do
something and you know that's a large
[1:12:29] amount of money. Do you advertise that
over 10 years, 50 years, 100 years, one
[1:12:35] year? I mean, what is the you know, one
year you look like a king, but you know,
[1:12:39] » Yeah.
>> Everyone loves you because the tax is
[1:12:43] gonna, you know,
>> Yeah. I I you know, I didn't get to that
[1:12:46] part of it. I just, you know, it is sold
in year two. I'll go through a 10-year
[1:12:51] period, cash in, cash out, you know, and
and so on some of these things, we I
[1:12:57] assume we sell the property in 2028, you
know, and we pick up $300,000, whatever
[1:13:05] it goes to offset uh other expenses.
Julia, you have the floor now. Okay.
[1:13:12] I just wanted to say I think it would be
a terrible terrible waste of this
[1:13:17] building to move the town office into
this building. I feel very strongly
[1:13:23] about I love our time to just
[1:13:29] perfect
in this building. I my dream for this go
[1:13:34] is for to be an artist's collective. I
don't know if
[1:13:39] you friends.
[1:13:48] » I agree with you, Julie. Had the town
office was meant to be the town office
[1:13:52] was given to the town,
etc. But I think it'd be shortsighted to
[1:13:58] sell any of our real estate with the the
values that were presented to us and it
[1:14:04] seemed extremely low. the values of
property are going up rapidly
[1:14:11] and uh you know the the projected value
is is way more than than what's being
[1:14:17] proposed here. So I just think it'd be
shortsighted to sell any of our
[1:14:21] property.
>> Uh [snorts]
[1:14:25] let's see if Jess spoken. happened.
>> Uh I just want to say that the the
[1:14:31] option of moving the town office here is
uh something we're exploring because
[1:14:36] enough people have said what if
>> what if we move the town office? And
[1:14:41] it's not it's not a like we need a new
town office. It's not anything like
[1:14:45] that. It's just an avenue that's been
brought up enough for us to have it be
[1:14:49] one of the things that we're seriously
exploring. So, just to clarify that
[1:14:54] nobody's,
you know, saying our town office isn't
[1:14:57] good enough because by goodness, it
really is.
[1:15:02] » Can I clarify what you're
clarify what you're saying? You said, do
[1:15:06] you think we should hold on to the I
guess holding on to old property? You
[1:15:11] said tennis
office.
[1:15:16] Uh, and this pursuing a rental and new
year pursue a rental.
[1:15:22] » Okay,
>> Dan, you and then Gary.
[1:15:27] » Um, well, I don't again I don't know
what the viability would be of
[1:15:32] finding a renter. Um well, I don't know
what the viability of any of these
[1:15:37] options is exactly, but um this it seems
like this building is large enough to
[1:15:43] accommodate
perhap potentially multiple uses at
[1:15:46] once. Um you know, like rent different
spaces separately. Um,
[1:15:53] » I don't know if there's anybody that
would be interested in renting, but you
[1:15:56] know, I mean, just about every room in
this building has its own bathroom, so
[1:16:01] that's convenient if someone wanted to
like use room as a studio or workspace
[1:16:07] of some sort.
>> Um, it would be I could see that
[1:16:11] happening or that being useful to
somebody potentially. Um, and the other
[1:16:17] thing is it would be
it'd be really I think helpful if
[1:16:23] somehow the town could
I know this isn't going to happen
[1:16:27] building gets sold for housing, but if
we could somehow hang on to the use of
[1:16:32] the downstairs for town meetings and you
know town functions of any kind for that
[1:16:38] matter because um I mean you know it's
been said that we have the church next
[1:16:44] And we do, but uh at least in my uh
judgment, that building needs a lot of
[1:16:53] expensive work to get it to the point
where this building pretty much already
[1:16:58] is in terms of year round viability and
you know, proper heating, lighting,
[1:17:05] everything else that you need for a you
know, usable, functional yearround
[1:17:11] space.
So that's just uh some thoughts.
[1:17:16] » Uh my name is David Roach. We moved here
basically in 22. So
[1:17:24] if this is going to be looked at at a
rental or a prospect for rental,
[1:17:31] who meets?
Is it one person, two people, or does
[1:17:35] the whole select board or would it be
you guys
[1:17:40] as a committee that's formed sit down
and talk to the individual or
[1:17:45] individuals interested in renting this?
So there's more. I don't know if we have
[1:17:53] other prospects that came forward and
who met with him or anything else, but
[1:17:58] my concern as a citizen that's lived
here and seen things that I don't
[1:18:05] necessarily agree with, but I believe if
you have prospects,
[1:18:12] there should be at minimum three people
sitting down, whether you meet with a
[1:18:17] realtor or an individual company or an
indiv individual person
[1:18:23] so that everybody there takes notes and
there's no bias.
[1:18:31] You ask you ask questions back and
forth. You get a final
[1:18:36] touch or feeling what that individual's
willing to pay or what they want. Does
[1:18:43] that make sense what I say?
>> Yeah. Cuz right now, who beats somebody
[1:18:50] if there was interest since this
building sent empty since last year? Who
[1:18:56] met with these people?
And I'm sure there was people that came
[1:19:00] because I've met people from other towns
that said they were interested in
[1:19:05] renting this building
and we haven't heard a thing. Whom who
[1:19:11] met with these people? I'm a taxpayer.
I'm interested in what's going on in our
[1:19:20] area.
>> So are we Dave. I don't think any of us
[1:19:24] are familiar with any of
>> Well, that's what I want to know.
[1:19:27] » Not that.
>> So I think it should be more than one
[1:19:31] individual or two individuals. It should
be a group or a committee just like
[1:19:36] that's already formed here or the whole
select committee
[1:19:41] or a large large percentage of people so
they can ask questions just like you're
[1:19:49] interviewing somebody for a position. Is
that understandable or am I out of line?
[1:19:56] » Do you mean what's a decision or do you
no individual say we put this out for a
[1:20:02] rental?
>> Right. So, but that would that's the
[1:20:04] part that's the part uh that we're
trying to figure out now.
[1:20:06] » Right. Right.
>> But what I'm saying is when we get to
[1:20:09] that point
>> should be one member of
[1:20:12] » one
more than one input
[1:20:18] trying to say
>> it should be a control.
[1:20:21] » Yeah.
>> So, so to come to
[1:20:24] » Yeah. I think an answer is appropriate
at this point.
[1:20:26] » Yeah. So my response is this committee's
job is not to go beyond helping us
[1:20:34] decide which option we want to pursue.
>> Right?
[1:20:37] » At the moment that their that charter
does not include that let's say the the
[1:20:41] the town decides they want to rent it
>> their charter does not include managing
[1:20:46] » the rental property.
>> But so at that point who would meet what
[1:20:50] the interested part was.
>> So the answer would be how do we want it
[1:20:54] right? If we do what kind of has been
the history, it falls in the domain.
[1:20:59] It's called fel in name name domain of
the select board. Uh Bruce has typically
[1:21:05] been on point. Uh I think we've only had
two tenants right since correct
[1:21:10] » since the time. One was some
>> a previous nursery school and subsequent
[1:21:15] nursery school. And I'm guessing you
were probably on point with those folks.
[1:21:19] But the select board ultimately reviewed
and signed up on the leases.
[1:21:22] » Yes,
>> we could continue that. We could decide
[1:21:25] to set up a a subcommittee, which I
think would be a great idea.
[1:21:30] » Change that.
>> Yeah.
[1:21:31] » Uh and you know, people could either get
voted to it, appointed to it, run,
[1:21:35] whatever. Doesn't have to be the select
court right now. I think legally it
[1:21:40] rests with the select board. The select
court could vote to delegate that
[1:21:43] authority to a subcommittee. We can do
it any way we want.
[1:21:46] » I think the select subcommittee.
>> So, first we have to decide. That's what
[1:21:49] we want to do.
>> Yeah. I mean a subcommittee would make
[1:21:52] more sense
>> than just one
[1:21:53] » than just one one person.
>> Sure. But we first have to decide is
[1:21:57] this the ravenue.
>> Well, from what we're hearing, the best
[1:22:01] thing that we know is um
from what I'm listening, not saying
[1:22:07] anything was everybody feels we can make
more money off a rental as per say
[1:22:14] selling it for commercial.
So, if you're going to have rentals or
[1:22:19] whatever,
>> you should have some type of
[1:22:23] subcommittee
over watching.
[1:22:26] » Sure.
>> What's going on?
[1:22:28] » Sure.
>> When and if we get to that point.
[1:22:30] » Yeah. When we when you or us get there.
>> Yeah.
[1:22:34] » We have a lot of people who want to say
things. Um Marjorie first. Gary, you had
[1:22:38] your hand up. There were some other
hand. Barbara had her hand up. So, let's
[1:22:43] My brain can only handle so much at
once. How about Marjorie Gary Bar and
[1:22:48] then we'll redo at that point.
>> I just want to say I'm glad to hear that
[1:22:51] there has been interest that you know
people that have been interested because
[1:22:54] I haven't heard of I've only heard
stories of oh they came and they looked
[1:22:58] at it but now they can't. So it would be
great if we had some people that wanted
[1:23:02] to rent it.
>> Yeah, that's
[1:23:06] I was offended when they said that was
it the Windsor Housing Trust that they
[1:23:10] want to go someplace where there's
municipal services. But we have the best
[1:23:15] road crew.
[1:23:21] » That's true.
[1:23:30] » It's true.
>> Contractors in town that responded to a
[1:23:35] flood we had were spot was washed out
and they just came and fixed it in
[1:23:40] coordination with our town crew. I mean,
we have a lot of stuff going on here.
[1:23:44] That's good.
>> That was offensive.
[1:23:48] » Did you leave the chairs like out for a
second?
[1:24:00] » I'm sorry.
[1:24:04] » Next.
>> Just to speak to Dave's point there. I
[1:24:09] have met with uh the supervisory union
and Bruce here to show they had they
[1:24:17] showed an interest um and were very
interested other than it doesn't have uh
[1:24:23] the right amount of fiber coming in for
their phone systems that they need. So
[1:24:28] that was a big downfall there as uh
tenants. Um, and then we showed it to
[1:24:34] Kindle Farm over the winter. Um and that
didn't amount to a call back
[1:24:41] but uh I have been talking with Bob TBO
the superintendent and he's spoken to um
[1:24:48] the CEO of Grace Cottage and they
they're kind of interested in trying to
[1:24:53] get like a co-op daycare for their
employees so that um and he was thinking
[1:25:02] of our facility just for
But that would be, you know, it would
[1:25:08] have to be advertised. See if there was
an interest in um, you know, evidently
[1:25:13] they had enough families that need child
care. Um, or
[1:25:22] yeah.
Um, but anyway, that is so that's just
[1:25:27] how he started. It was just show.
[1:25:34] » Anybody else? Stanley.
>> Yeah, just two quick comments. Uh the
[1:25:39] numbers that uh Andrea and myself spoke
about from the realtors. Um
[1:25:45] I I know the numbers that I got from the
realtor that I asked me consider is not
[1:25:51] a number that I support as an
individual, but they're they're they
[1:25:56] sell it real estate and have for years.
So they they've come up with those
[1:26:00] numbers. I I'm not saying I support that
and I hope I don't create that
[1:26:04] impression. I think at one point in one
of the meetings, Michael Seaton asked me
[1:26:09] what I thought the property was worth
and he probably thought I was crazy uh
[1:26:13] at the time. I and I'm not gonna I don't
think I should say the number because I
[1:26:17] don't want to influence anything any
anybody anyway.
[1:26:20] » In regard to easements, I all I can say
is this. I appraised the property for 26
[1:26:26] years.
Not one appraisal, but I did over that
[1:26:30] 26-year period had an easement like the
easement we have here at the town
[1:26:36] office. And that tells me something. I
don't have to analyze it. They just look
[1:26:40] at nobody. So, whatever anyone's
opinions are, they're they're an opinion
[1:26:45] of your of yourselves, ourselves. Uh and
and and so that's that's all I have to
[1:26:51] say. I think it's important to keep in
mind too that the family that has the
[1:26:54] easement on that property also donated
the property for where the town office
[1:26:59] now sits, right?
>> So, you know, that's an important part
[1:27:03] of the equation to keep in mind.
>> Can I ask a question? I would love to
[1:27:07] hear um what everybody thinks should be
done. Does the town need a building like
[1:27:13] this be a town office? Should it be a
community center? Should it be a daycare
[1:27:18] center? Does anyone have any ideas that
we should be looking at that we have not
[1:27:23] yet explored?
[1:27:29] » I think it should be a
pushing not really long since we last
[1:27:34] pulled back closed but just because I
hear young families that are in need to
[1:27:40] go to work and have to go to Brad,
>> right? go to grab her and then come back
[1:27:44] up the valley to go to work at either
the hospital where
[1:27:50] » Johnny
what was the event that the school was
[1:27:54] paying you what were those
>> 24 and change a month and change
[1:28:01] » I mean
>> plus plus they picked up fair amount of
[1:28:04] expenses obviously utilities utilities
I'm just thinking thinking outside the
[1:28:08] box here if the town developed this
property for say rental units you Could
[1:28:13] you fit three or four rental units in
here? And there's not a rental unit
[1:28:16] that's not going for less than 1,500.
You know, you could, you know, obviously
[1:28:20] there's a there's a cost to getting it
up to that level, but you know, there's
[1:28:25] a lot of clamoring for low-inccome
housing. Not that that's low-inccome
[1:28:28] housing, but there is really no housing
of any sort available for people. So, I
[1:28:32] mean, it that would be a much bigger
commitment for the town to make this
[1:28:36] into a property. But it is if there is a
large enough demand in the town not to
[1:28:41] sell the property but to rent it. That
could be an option worth that could be a
[1:28:45] fifth option you were thinking about
which is investigating the cost of
[1:28:48] turning this into whatever feasible
amount of rental properties. I'm
[1:28:53] guessing you would like a scenario like
that would be somehow somehow granted
[1:28:58] grant dependent because I mean you're
talking about a big town investment in a
[1:29:02] high risk to overinvest in this building
and hope that you know that you get a
[1:29:07] payback
>> and there really aren't there
[1:29:11] rental units.
>> Correct. Right. I mean I can't really
[1:29:15] think of them. So I don't know just
thought right
[1:29:19] » Lori you were next. Fran I saw your hand
up. Marne, I saw your hand. So there's
[1:29:23] next three.
>> Um I'm really torn um as to what should
[1:29:29] happen with a building. I went to school
here when it was just really a one room
[1:29:34] school. Um and I realized the need for
daycare. I also like the idea of elder
[1:29:42] care. Um even our own local, you know,
it was a very small kitchen. Um but you
[1:29:50] know even some senior meals um again you
know some
[1:29:57] community meetings um there's a lot of
uh those of you who don't know we hope
[1:30:03] formed a new history group for the town
of Brooklyn uh and trying to preserve
[1:30:09] our our Brooklyn history and there's no
place to keep that you can't keep it in
[1:30:13] the round schoolhouse because it's not
temperature controlled same way the
[1:30:17] meeting
There is there is a drill in the town
[1:30:21] office for that. Um, so we have a wealth
of historical information that sits in
[1:30:28] cardboard boxes and is kind of
>> done here,
[1:30:32] » right? And this could also be um a point
for people to and people come all the
[1:30:39] time from the round schoolhouse for
chore, but we can't keep that material
[1:30:44] in there year round because it's it's
>> kind of falling apart. um the
[1:30:51] materialist. So I mean I I'm really
torn, but then at the same time I'm like
[1:30:55] we could use the revenue as a town as as
tax base uh and we can also use it like
[1:31:02] Johnny had suggested you know lower uh
people's tax base for however many years
[1:31:08] based on whatever we get lower price.
So, I I mean I I'm really torn. Um
[1:31:15] but I think we have to look to make a
decision at the numbers. The the bottom
[1:31:21] line is numbers and who's going to
maintain this building. I think Cruz
[1:31:25] right now you do a lot of this as
volunteer and Mark um
[1:31:32] » it's a lot to be responsible for to
maintain and so I mean eventually that's
[1:31:38] going to have to really be a serious
line item in the budget town budget is
[1:31:42] maintaining their
>> and I in my modeling I'm assum
[1:31:47] the labor
>> and we're volunteers in the town you
[1:31:51] know it's great to see new new people
involved is very appreciated. So
[1:31:58] [clears throat] that's where I stand.
>> Tran, you're next. And then Marty,
[1:32:02] » I was thinking along the lines of
housing also to be able to convert this
[1:32:09] into
housing or apartments for people want to
[1:32:15] population here in the town. Um, do we
want to be uh landlords? Does the town
[1:32:23] want to be a landlord or can we get the
governor wants
[1:32:28] his whole thing is let's get more people
here and there aren't enough housing.
[1:32:33] There's not enough livable space for
people.
[1:32:37] Aren't they supporting that up in the
Burlington area? and and and you know,
[1:32:43] could that be funding that we could get
here to convert it into livable units
[1:32:50] for the town to do it for to get um
funding from the state.
[1:32:57] We're looking into those. The problem
with that kind of grants, it's a long
[1:33:01] process. So maybe, you know, it's
competitive. Maybe we could. I mean,
[1:33:07] there's certainly grant money out there.
It's just it's not a quick fix if we're
[1:33:12] looking for a quick fix.
>> A lot of the grants are sort of seed
[1:33:15] money. They're they're not $50,000
[1:33:20] 18month process and paperwork and so
forth to get $50,000 or just see money
[1:33:26] and then you got to go find other money.
[1:33:31] [clears throat]
[1:33:36] Um, like I was just thinking it would be
so it looks I'm guessing that I'm more
[1:33:43] um it looks like you're taking notes. I
was thinking it would be so nice to I'm
[1:33:48] sure they'll be somewhere that we can
buy someday. But wouldn't it be nice if
[1:33:53] I go home and you'll say, "Oh, my buddy
John Doe would totally buy this for a
[1:33:58] million dollars." And yes, I can talk to
people, but if I could go online to a
[1:34:02] Wikipedia and say, "My buddy so and so
would like this property for personal
[1:34:09] house, what?" And then I think it could
get this much. And then,
[1:34:15] you know, we could go through the list
of everybody's ideas of what they want
[1:34:18] or what they actually think are
plausible and somebody could check it
[1:34:22] off. No, Warney's friend John Doe was a
a dead not interested, but at least
[1:34:29] there'd be a list of all the ideas and
then you know how they were followed up
[1:34:35] or not followed up, who the realtor was,
who wasn't um
[1:34:42] yeah, just so that everybody everybody
in the town, not the people who are
[1:34:46] here. I don't know if that's a big
bureaucratic ask to have a website like
[1:34:51] that or not. Sure.
>> Yeah,
[1:34:55] » there is a vast majority of that in the
minutes from every meeting because in
[1:34:59] the minutes we are discussing who's
contacted who, who's making progress
[1:35:04] with what and so it's not a full list,
but it is a great deal of what we're
[1:35:11] doing. Every single meeting is
>> people would prefer that there's a
[1:35:16] gatekeeper to that. But I was also going
to give you nice if they could be more
[1:35:20] of a Wikipedia style except maybe not
>> deletable or something.
[1:35:26] » It's easier to to list.
>> Second thing is we have a web designer
[1:35:32] in our midst.
>> We have a p we have all our meetings
[1:35:36] everybody on one page and agenda.
>> We also an email address but anyone can
[1:35:42] and I keep putting it out there. anyone
is can mail us ideas on this email
[1:35:47] address and then we could sort of uh
compile those and share those with
[1:35:51] everybody.
>> I I would add too you guys meet every
[1:35:54] two weeks on Tuesday. So the meetings
are open to the public.
[1:35:58] » We would love people to show up.
>> So that's another avenue.
[1:36:03] » Um let's see. Are we Yes, we are. My
three green here Danny and then Bruce
[1:36:08] and did I see and Carrie? Um, this isn't
exactly addressing your question on what
[1:36:14] I want. I think there's a lot of ideas
here that are really exciting, but
[1:36:20] mostly I just wanted to thank each and
every one of you for stepping up to do
[1:36:23] this. And I'm asking you through the
process when we met
[1:36:32] » when we met down in the basement six,
nine months ago. And it was, you know, a
[1:36:40] lot of ideas were thrown out and this
committee wasn't even an idea then. Or
[1:36:44] maybe it was. I didn't know what this
committee got made as a product of that
[1:36:49] meeting. And I have seen them follow
through on everything we suggested that
[1:36:55] day. Well, what about this? What about
that? And each one of these individuals
[1:36:59] I know has researched to know in what
the plausibility of whatever we have
[1:37:05] brought forward to them. and so which
has only made it that much more
[1:37:09] complicated. Okay, [laughter]
>> think not done but mostly just wanted to
[1:37:15] say thank you and I see the dedication
and the hard work and I also see how
[1:37:20] heated this can be because everybody
kind of has their opinion about what
[1:37:23] they want but you all have done a really
good job at staying neutral and just
[1:37:27] reporting facts. So thank you.
>> Thanks Danny.
[1:37:35] commit to quickly say it's been a
wonderful committee to be on. I've been
[1:37:39] on a lot of conflict.
This is a great one in every way.
[1:37:43] Everybody contributes in their own way
and we all work together very very well.
[1:37:48] So, it's been a lot of fun. But I'm glad
that when Mike and Emily hired us, so
[1:37:54] picked us out. Um they said there is an
end date and it's November 2nd is when
[1:37:59] the general election is, which is when
we'd like to ask the taxpayers of
[1:38:03] Brooklyn what they would like. So now
we're wrestling with that is how do we
[1:38:08] word a ballot and how do can we do it in
one ballot and you know that's what
[1:38:13] we're up against now. So the deadline
was very appealing
[1:38:18] » and this would be Australian ballot
correct. So townwide voting on
[1:38:23] » we'd have to warn 30 days in advance
October 2nd
[1:38:28] the steps have been taken to allow that
to happen. So Bruce, you were next and
[1:38:33] then Carrie.
>> Well,
[1:38:36] I'd like to see this healthy process
continue and conclude at some point.
[1:38:42] There's some a lot of things I found
very interesting
[1:38:46] and some things I'll
read for it. But that's not for me for
[1:38:51] now. I like I said, I want to see the
process go and keep on going.
[1:38:57] What I really want to address is this
daycare issue that keeps popping up.
[1:39:01] And it was said that Kindle school came
here. Yeah. They were interested about
[1:39:06] eight or 10 kids going here. Yes. The
WCSU came here both times. Both both of
[1:39:13] both groups. What was not
TBO came with his tech person and his
[1:39:20] and his building person who takes care
of all the buildings for we met for an
[1:39:25] hour and a half. And I saw very little
interest in a daycare. But what
[1:39:31] everybody is not knowing hasn't been
mentioned because I only mentioned it
[1:39:35] last week at the selection meeting
because Mary called me out on it in a
[1:39:39] nice way. I didn't know about this and I
thought that you guys did know about it
[1:39:43] but it was I wasn't even going to bring
it up but then I was told no you got it
[1:39:50] » and I was I had met
>> Okay, sure.
[1:39:54] » Okay.
because I met with uh the people that
[1:39:58] own Pumpkin Patch in in Putney and they
are presently at the Putney in
[1:40:05] » that's a daycare.
>> Yes.
[1:40:08] » And how that was presented to me because
I got an email from Stephanie who was in
[1:40:13] that office for many years for Sunny
Lane Daycare and she is a human resource
[1:40:18] person for that daycare. So we set up a
meeting. They came over. I want to say
[1:40:24] two and a half, three weeks together.
And it only m it only managed to be
[1:40:29] about 40 minutes. It was kind of weird
because I knew the woman and she goes to
[1:40:35] my church, but I never really had
conversation with her. So we uh between
[1:40:41] myself, the two her I don't even know
remember her name, her husband and
[1:40:47] Stephanie, we all had a a very pretty
quick uh sing to the choir conversation
[1:40:54] about daycarees and their reaction was
they would they got to go someplace but
[1:41:01] they didn't feel that they could do it
here for a lot of reasons which I don't
[1:41:05] think it's necessary for me to go in to
every specific reason. But it daycarees
[1:41:12] have not worked in this town. It's been
proven. It's been proven by two Let me
[1:41:17] finish police
>> by two confident
[1:41:22] people. The second one, Susie Cudamar, I
remember when I first talked to her, she
[1:41:27] was hot. She was so excited to be in
this building. And every one of her
[1:41:32] personnel that was here four years will
be four years now. I think this January
[1:41:39] gone by the time they left they had
problem with personnel. They had a
[1:41:42] problem with getting kids here. They had
problem with cost expenses. It goes on
[1:41:46] and on. So it's not a very simple
process to to get a daycare and has what
[1:41:52] has to be considered is all the cost
when you say we're going to have a
[1:41:55] daycare committee here. Well, what has
to happen is they have to find out what
[1:42:00] the costs are to run a daycare and also
in conjunction with the state and that's
[1:42:07] just the facts of life and those two
very competent daycarees hold out.
[1:42:17] I I just want to point out I don't think
that it's typical for a municipality
[1:42:23] to generate and or create housing and
then manager
[1:42:31] uh having a couple rental houses and I
uh I can't imagine a select board member
[1:42:39] wanting to to think that on top of
everything publicly know is our building
[1:42:45] commissioner and just the the work he
has is is staggering to begin with.
[1:42:52] just to add something like that and the
multiple personalities. It's
[1:42:58] » it would if we decided that this should
be housing then I hate to say it but the
[1:43:04] the way to go would be to sell the
building and and the buyer manage it
[1:43:11] » get into if you're going to do that
instability of people
[1:43:17] that would be somebody's headache
[1:43:22] » right
[1:43:25] » I just wanted to add this information
that I don't know for statue but if you
[1:43:33] do sell this building and we keep the
meeting house um the the septic system
[1:43:40] is probably 150 years old. So
we probably start using that building
[1:43:48] for more population. You probably have
to upgrade the septic system
[1:43:54] » and drill a well
>> because
[1:43:58] » and I believe you can only I believe a a
well has to be 200 ft from the reach of
[1:44:05] your license. So with that in mind that
narrows down
[1:44:14] » some of that,
>> you know, rental if you were going to
[1:44:18] rent it, I feel like there's
capabilities of getting enough money
[1:44:26] so that the income pays for an upkeeper,
you know, somebody maintain stuff.
[1:44:35] Yes. So,
>> but again, Brooklyn is a very nice
[1:44:40] actually highly soughtafter place to
live. So, whatever we do, we shouldn't
[1:44:46] give it away.
>> I believe Johnny nailed it. I stand
[1:44:53] behind John's opinion 100%.
>> And
[1:45:01] it's a great asset. All of our buildings
are great assets.
[1:45:07] There's a lot of potential here.
>> It's all on you, Jen.
[1:45:17] » Uh,
yeah. Um, I just worry that uh I I know
[1:45:22] there's a trying need in this area and
the entire state probably for housing
[1:45:29] that's affordable for a working family.
Um, or even a working person, couple. Um
[1:45:40] but my fear is that what gets built
generally is if left to their own
[1:45:48] devices to developers is what will make
them the most money
[1:45:53] » which is probably a big fancy vacation
home or something like that. I don't
[1:45:57] know if we sell this property for
housing we're going to necessarily get
[1:46:01] the kind of housing we necessarily need
and watch it. So that's what concerns me
[1:46:07] about they're selling this property and
losing complete control over what
[1:46:12] happens. I think just throw in that's a
great point and the folks in South New
[1:46:19] to find get opinion from a very
responsible developer who had done
[1:46:23] projects that they liked very consistent
historically
[1:46:27] constant community and somebody who had
some kind of a social
[1:46:32] motivation as well like this. Yes. But
again, that's excuse me uh sort of a
[1:46:39] different very different scenario than
what we got here. To my mind at least
[1:46:43] that was a church that they want to
convert to housing and what we're
[1:46:48] talking about here is I don't know a
[clears throat] much building and a
[1:46:52] larger piece of property. I don't know.
I don't know if it compares us, but
[1:46:57] » Bruce comment and we have no zoning in
town and it's 1,000% correct. If we sell
[1:47:05] it to the developer, my they can do
whatever the hell they want. If they
[1:47:10] sell it with land, eeny meeny miny mo,
they can do whatever they want on this
[1:47:15] land and the story. You're right about
the management department. We don't
[1:47:19] agree much, Carrie, but we agree on
that. So I think we need to spend the
[1:47:22] time and let the this is my opinion and
doesn't happen often but we do it right.
[1:47:27] We got to let the committee do its due
diligence. When it's all said and done
[1:47:33] we have another meeting, maybe another
second meeting. Hammer it out.
[1:47:38] » Okay,
you were next and then Mike.
[1:47:42] » Well, it was I don't know. I was trying
to think of this, but just in reference
[1:47:47] to the new fame, um they also have other
town buildings like meeting spaces, the
[1:47:57] town hall, Williamsville Hall. Um is
there like a
[1:48:02] » grandchild
>> the south new school has
[1:48:08] » so for if one so they have more
buildings than they do to work with if
[1:48:17] they wanted to change one of the housing
they still have all these other
[1:48:21] buildings that are possible to use for
residents or towns all.
[1:48:32] » Absolutely.
>> I was going to say I I agree with Bruce
[1:48:38] what he said and what he said about
everybody else that said stop.
[1:48:43] But I think as far as this committee is
concerned, okay, at the end of the day,
[1:48:48] uh whatever what what this group is
going to be doing is what kind of what
[1:48:52] you're doing is flagging risks. they are
not going to be able to resolve those
[1:48:58] risks, right? It's going to be in the
implementation to manage those risk. So
[1:49:02] if we go down a rental path,
>> this committee will have benefits and
[1:49:07] risks identified.
>> But when we if we elect to go down that
[1:49:11] path
>> exactly
[1:49:11] » then who when we implement is when we're
going to have to manage those risks
[1:49:16] optimally. They they won't be able to
solve them. Just identify them as you
[1:49:21] are partially here.
>> Right.
[1:49:23] » Okay.
Uh, I'm just worried that November 2nd
[1:49:26] is going to be too soon.
>> I know it will soon.
[1:49:30] » In my opinion, I think it would be good
to let everybody cook on this. I know
[1:49:35] the money's pouring out the windows, but
if it could wait until March,
[1:49:42] » you know, it would give people what if
someone did come along so they wanted to
[1:49:46] rent it and you already said, "No, we're
going to tear the boat down." solid, but
[1:49:51] it would give people to look around a
little bit more and think about it a
[1:49:55] little bit more instead of rushing into,
you know, a rock solid decision. I would
[1:50:00] prefer to see it wait until March the
town meeting and then you'd have plenty
[1:50:06] of time to draw your
ideas and the pros and cons of all the
[1:50:11] options.
Maybe you could have a
[1:50:15] » a voting on like what are the preferred
options and then let it cook over the
[1:50:21] winter and say okay March
[clears throat]
[1:50:24] » trying to decide in March that's just
>> okay
[1:50:30] » November's
too soon but March is too late in my
[1:50:34] opinion
>> you can hold a special election
[1:50:37] » that's correct if you were thinking of
Australian ballot
[1:50:42] That's something that could happen prior
to town meeting, but later on
[1:50:49] consideration what you're saying.
>> Also, if uh over the, you know, over the
[1:50:53] holiday season, if there was anyone that
wanted to do a popup rental, have
[1:50:57] workshop in here for something holiday
or something,
[1:51:01] » you know, that's just
a side. But
[1:51:05] » Le's volunteering for that.
Well, actually, I just had a thought uh
[1:51:12] pop into my head. Angel um
charge with the team out of Johnston
[1:51:17] because the West Summerson school is
similar size to this building and they
[1:51:23] actually they tried I don't know how
well it's worked out. Um they use it as
[1:51:27] more of a community center. Um and I
don't know if that's been you know how
[1:51:32] that's worked out for the town. It might
be worth um another avenue for
[1:51:38] Isn't it? Didn't the library just become
the community center? Oh, wait. No,
[1:51:42] that's me. Not
>> was
[1:51:46] » it's Yeah, it's in the same building.
>> It's in the same building.
[1:51:49] » Okay.
>> But the library was able to expand
[1:51:52] through the library used to just be in
one room.
[1:51:57] » Okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. I haven't been there in a while.
[1:51:59] People rented it a long time ago for,
you know, a little event. So,
[1:52:03] » isn't it privately owned?
It was when I
[1:52:07] » I I do not
>> Bob Johnson.
[1:52:10] » It might be by [clears throat] some sort
of nonprofit. I don't know.
[1:52:13] » I don't know. Well, he's he's no longer
with us.
[1:52:15] » No, thanks.
>> Suggestion.
[1:52:18] [clears throat]
>> Just a quick suggestion. I understand
[1:52:22] what you're saying, Pat. And you're
right in one respect because we're rigid
[1:52:27] on or there was a thought of being rigid
of having it on election day and it was
[1:52:32] already answered that we could have an
Australian ballot anytime. I I think we
[1:52:36] should do the September 12th meeting.
[clears throat] Pash it out more. See
[1:52:39] where we sit September 12th to
September. September 12th. Maybe we
[1:52:44] could have another meeting the first
week in October. Let's breathe a little
[1:52:48] bit. Let's get all the ideas out. Let's
talk it out and see what And I want to
[1:52:53] make one last point. Everybody said,
"Well, oh, I have all my personal
[1:52:57] interests. I have this personal." I
wonder what you think what's in the best
[1:53:02] interest for the town of Brookline for a
hundred years.
[1:53:07] Go home with that and then we can visit
on the 12th, maybe have another meeting
[1:53:13] after that and see what comes out of it.
One thing to keep in mind about
[1:53:18] Australian ballot on the day of town
meeting, it can't be held in the same
[1:53:22] building.
>> That's town meeting which would require
[1:53:26] a town clerk to be down at the office
and not ready. That's just it. Because
[1:53:31] we've done that before. You're lying. I
had to go down.
[1:53:34] » This is why when Newane votes their
officers uh their select men and their
[1:53:39] listers and things, they do it by
Australian ballot. But it has to be done
[1:53:43] building separate from where their home
that's the law [clears throat]
[1:53:48] » which makes it kind of hard because you
can't you can't talk about during the
[1:53:52] town meeting you can't talk about the
article that is being voted on in the
[1:53:57] other building. So
>> from the select board standpoint you may
[1:54:01] want to separate those two things.
>> Well you're you're that and the fact
[1:54:05] that we really don't want to do this in
town meeting maybe a separate meeting.
[1:54:11] It's kind of like when we separated the
school, but this the school when they
[1:54:15] join joined with the WCSU, we now go
have a school uh meeting at in the town
[1:54:22] hall in the town building, you know,
town meeting every March. And that's
[1:54:27] save has saved time and our time has
gone down from when I first came on the
[1:54:32] board, we were there at 10:00 in the
morning and that people meeting I got
[1:54:35] elected. We were done at 33. Yeah. Now
it's two and a half hours and Gary's not
[1:54:40] going to let us get past two hours of
this turn.
[1:54:46] » Okay, I haven't even looked at the
watch, but
[1:54:50] » we've got minutes.
>> Go ahead. Everybody who wants to talk
[1:54:55] needs to know. So,
>> just trying to listen to everything that
[1:54:58] everybody say and I don't think I have
an opinion as far as um what exactly
[1:55:04] should be done, but I have two things.
One, I would like to see if we can give
[1:55:09] more parking to the meeting hall if
we're going to eventually
[1:55:14] do this to give some of that parking to
that so that we can have a and this
[1:55:21] building is ADA so that would be a a
selling point if somebody needed to rent
[1:55:27] this or whatever because um I know it
doesn't have the sprinklers or whatever
[1:55:32] necessarily.
>> It's downstairs.
[1:55:34] I don't see anybody.
>> I believe there's downstairs in the
[1:55:37] hall.
>> Yeah.
[1:55:39] » Yeah.
>> But um
[1:55:42] » the thing is I was trying my point of
I'm trying to figure out what to do for
[1:55:48] the future of this town. And as far as
younger people, I don't see a lot of
[1:55:54] younger people that are involved in
this. And I don't know I I don't know
[1:56:00] the people in the town enough to reach
out to them to say, "Hey, this is going
[1:56:05] to be your town. What do you want done
with it?" I mean, it's actually it all
[1:56:13] belongs to the future mostly. You know,
we're looking at it. We're all older.
[1:56:17] We've all been here and done all our
stuff, whatever. Not. But I'm not really
[1:56:22] sure what's the best way. And I think it
would be nice if we could reach out to
[1:56:28] our neighbors that are younger and bring
it up to them so that um the committee
[1:56:34] so they can get their input.
>> That's what I was going to say.
[1:56:40] Um, I just wondered if while we're doing
all this analyzing stuff,
[1:56:46] all the different ways, if there's a way
to come up with
[1:56:50] uh an average rental price if we were to
rent the building. I mean, I I know
[1:56:55] we've tried to come up with sale prices,
but I wondered about this size
[1:57:01] commercial building rental per month.
What we could get on
[1:57:08] To answer your question, I I have done a
little bit of research on that. And uh
[1:57:14] for a onebedroom,
no little more than a thousand square
[1:57:17] foot living unit, the average monthly
rent ranges from one uh 1,000 to $1,300.
[1:57:25] The twobedroom is,300 to
uh $1,800.
[1:57:32] And there's one unit in Brattleboro I
came across. I couldn't believe it. It
[1:57:37] is a brand new singlebedroom apartment.
They want $1,900 a month for that. Did
[1:57:43] you?
>> So, it's, you know, I've I've gone
[1:57:46] online. I've checked a couple of sources
and those numbers seem to keep
[1:57:50] reappearing.
>> But Mark, did you mean aside from
[1:57:55] housing other? I was thinking as it is
right now say
[1:58:01] commercial
[1:58:04] like
>> like they said we we got 2400 a month
[1:58:08] for the last sprinters right there.
>> Could we get that? Could we get more?
[1:58:12] » Is it going to be less? If we could
maybe compare some other this size
[1:58:19] structures somewhere to see what they're
getting.
[1:58:26] » David,
[1:58:31] so I was just going to say if more than
one business rented this, you'd have to
[1:58:35] put in security so that they could each
have their own secure area.
[1:58:41] » Would that be necessary?
If you have three different businesses
[1:58:45] renting this as opposed to one business,
you'd have to have separate security
[1:58:50] systems, lock entries, and that kind of
maybe
[1:58:58] possible the rental is zero. I'm not
convinced.
[1:59:01] » I don't know. But, you know,
nobody's banging down the door right now
[1:59:06] trying to rent.
>> Well, we haven't yet.
[1:59:08] » We haven't looked hard, but there's been
some looking. There's been some looking.
[1:59:13] Yeah.
>> We don't need much for Harriet.
[1:59:20] » Yeah. I was gonna ask what time is it?
>> So,
[1:59:25] » does everyone feel they had a chance to
share what they want to share?
[1:59:30] » Can I throw at least one?
Yeah,
[1:59:35] » you know, Grace Cottage up there, you
got Valley Cares and there's a demand
[1:59:40] for people looking to get senior
housing.
[1:59:45] » Another option
aging population.
[1:59:58] » What a good deal. That's why we're not
seeing any young people here.
[2:00:02] Uh anyway, okay. Everybody had a chance
just to see a whole road.
[2:00:08] I uh I would just like to say I think
this has been wonderful.
[2:00:13] An opportunity for people to gather
together, share ideas, but in a civil
[2:00:19] way, lots of different ideas and
opinions. This is what democracy is all
[2:00:24] about. Amen.
>> Yeah.
[2:00:27] » To all of us.
>> Thank you, David.
[2:00:37] All in favor
[2:00:46] [clears throat]
[2:00:59] Thank you.
[2:01:45] I know.
[2:01:50] Thank you.