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call to order the city council
transportation energy and utilities

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committee at 5:32
and um I would entertain a motion to

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amend and then adopt our

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what has been discussed is moving items
um 4.3

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to the top u or right after right after
public

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I would
>> second a second. Uh is there any other

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discussion on the uh adoption of the
agenda as amended? Seeing none, all

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those in favor indicate by saying I I
>> I.

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» Any opposed? I guess not. That's
unanimous. Um and so we have that. Next

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is adopting of our minutes from our July
28th meeting. Can be a motion on that. I

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would move to adopt the minutes.
>> Second.

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» Any discussion?
See none. All in favor adoption of his

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minutes by saying I
>> I

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» I
>> I

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» and that's also unanimous. Um noting
that council for the public council

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Bergman is not with us tonight. So it's
just a

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um and then um next thing would be a
public forum. Um and I don't anybody has

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We do have two signed up. Is there
anybody else here that wants to hasn't

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signed up that wants to sign up for a
public forum?

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Okay. Um is and if anybody online once
we handle the in-person uh uh forum

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participants will move to online and you
if you want to participate indicate by

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using the raise hand function on Zoom.
>> So the first uh person is uh is it

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Caris? Caris. Okay. And Simone. Okay.
Simone the first.

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So, thanks everybody for having here. My
name is Cara Simone. I live at 29

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Chitten Drive. And I want to begin by
thanking DPW for the work that has gone

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into um the memo we provided um as part
of the meeting agenda. I think that the

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phased approach represents progress and
I was encouraged to see Chitman Drive

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included in phase one. Um I also
appreciate the recognition that

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Leverland historical research needs to
be part of this process and that the

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existing city services will continue
while the review is underway. I do

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continue however to have some questions
about the proposed timeline and about

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how much investigation needs to occur
before the council begins making policy

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decisions. I think it's important to
remember how we got here. Residents did

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not come to the city asking for our
streets to be accepted so that they

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could immediately be reconstructed or
upgraded to current standards. The issue

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arose because residents of streets that
the city has maintained for decades were

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told that the city might discontinue
services such as snow plowing because

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those uh streets were considered
unaccepted or private.

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The current memo provides an important
clarification. The acceptance itself

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would not require immediate
reconstruction, which is great. Future

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improvements could be evaluated and
prioritized through the city's normal

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capital planning process. That
distinction matters because it raises

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the question of how much engineering
analysis and cost estimation is actually

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necessary before council can establish a
policy for these streets. I certainly

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understand the need for appropriate
technical review. The city needs to

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understand what infrastructure it would
be assuming and different streets may

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ultimately require different decisions.
I also understand the need for legal and

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historical research. But for Chin Drive
for example, the ownership history is

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not entirely mysterious. Road was
associated with deforest realies the

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original developer uh which is now
defunct. There is no homeowners

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association or other functioning private
entity maintaining the road. Meanwhile,

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the city has plowed and maintained Chip
and Drive for decades, issued curb cut

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permits associated with properties on
the street and otherwise treated it as a

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public roadway in a number of ways. So,
it seems to me that one of the threshold

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questions should be relatively
straightforward.

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Is there actually a private owner or
successor today who asserts legally

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enforcable ownership interest in the
road and is prepared to assume

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responsibility for it? I would say that
it's highly unlikely somebody's going to

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come forward say I want to own a street.
There's no home ownership of like me

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saying I want to have my own private
fire department. It's just not something

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people necessarily want to take up. Um I
recognize that answering that question

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uh may lead may uh require land records
and legal research, but I would

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encourage the city to determine the most
efficient and proportionate way to

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resolve it. If notice to potential
owners or successors is appropriate, for

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example, could that be done before
substantial resources are committed to

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more extensive engineering
investigations? That um brings me to the

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larger policy issue.
Um I appreciate DPW's technical role,

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but ultimately the question of how
Burlington should treat streets with

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unresolved ownership, longstanding
municipal, and decades of public use is

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a policy question for city council.
This memo indicates that because of

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funding and staffing constraints, much
of phase one work may not be completed

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until fiscal year 28 with
recommendations coming after that uh

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work is completed. I understand that DPW
cannot undertake unlimited work without

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resources. What I'm less certain about
is why the council's policy decision uh

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discussion needs to follow that same
timeline. I don't think council needs to

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decide tonight every phase one street
should be accepted and I'm not

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suggesting that technical information is
irrelevant. I'm asking whether council

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can begin establishing the principles
that will guide these decisions while

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DPW conducts the necessary technical and
legal work. That policy guidance

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guidance could also help determine what
technical work is actually necessary.

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The city's policy is that streets with
no functioning private owner, decades of

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municipal maintenance, and long-standing
public use should generally be

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considered for acceptance unless
significant legal or infrastructure

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problems are identified. That would
provide DPW with a framework for its

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analysis. Other circumstances might
appropriately lead to a different

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outcome.
I also think that when the city

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evaluates the financial implications of
acceptance, it should look at the

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complete picture. not simply the future
expenses the city might assume. Um for

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example, I would be interested to know
whether acceptance could affect

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eligibility for state or federal
transportation infrastructure funding

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and if so potential how might potential
outside funding be part of the financial

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analysis as well. So I support the
phased approach and I appreciate the

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progress reflected in this memo. Uh my
request is that we not allow the

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technical process to substitute for or
unnecessarily postpone the policy

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discussion. DPW can continue determining
the condition of these streets and

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clarify their legal status. At the same
time, the council can begin deciding

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what Burlington's policy should be once
these facts are known.

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» Um I notic you were reading from
something. If you want to provide those

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writing, you can mail them to
what's the address again.

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If that's that works for you and then be
happy to get the numbers.

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» Okay. The address just for people
watching,

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» of course. Yes. Um, you can send it to
rgu

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i n burlington bt.gov.
>> Thank you.

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» And then then we'll have those back.
Thank you.

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» Thank you. Next we have Michael.
>> Hi. Thank you Michael. I also have

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thanks for the opportunity to talk and
thank you from DPW for the work they've

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done on this and the
new uh alley the plan to accept streets.

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It's helpful. I just have a few brief
comments as you know as I was looking

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through the cost estimates. It just it
would be nice if uh there could be a

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public accounting of where the estimates
come from. You know what what goes into

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them.
that uh our street there was 800,000 for

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water
sewer and there was prior to that

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there's a brief explanation of things
that might affect it but it would be

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nice to have the line I what the costs
are in those estimates

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and uh the other thing I was thinking
would be helpful is an accounting uh or

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an offset.
If the cities were to the streets were

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to become accepted and then eligible for
the next the town highway grant program,

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what money would be coming into the city
uh related to accept those streets

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through that program?
Not much is that?

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it'd be nice to to just have an
accounting that

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and then the other comment I had uh was
with respect to concern if it still

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exists that some people may
claim ownership for uh portion of the

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street or all the street. Is there a way
to accomplish that through public notice

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with an intent to city intents to accept
these streets and assume ownership and

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you have I don't know what the legal
uh banker you have x amount of time to

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reply to this public notice um or you
know

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you know that's not
but it may be a less expensive option

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than doing the d research search and
I think the goal is to save money. We

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should say investigate allies.

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» Thank you. Yes.
>> Um is there anyone on the island who

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wants to participate in public forum
indicate by uh indicating their interest

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by using the race function of sort

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seem I guess we'll go ahead then and we
close public forum

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um and we had moved item

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4.3

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deliberative agenda which is the uh
adoption of the updated 1.6 not coming a

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pretty stand

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us.
>> Yeah. Uh so this is a pretty standard

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uh item. This came through in 2019. It
came through I believe 2011 before that.

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Every now and again standards get
updated. What this is particular for

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this year was more or less just one item
updated in culvert sizes um increasing

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the minimum size and the city's
obligation to update that um or accept

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that in our uh future rehabilitation
projects and making sure that things

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moving forward meeting standard. Um the
compliance with standards is uh one of

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the requirements for some funding
sources with the state and so uh we

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again shared this with other
departments, water resources primarily

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um to ensure that they were supportive
of this um and we are now moving forward

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just to formalize the acceptance of this
for your current

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recommendation. recommendation to
council sorry yes motion reads

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» I have no internet
I just I just got I just got my husband

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um so um questions from committee
but um yeah so you you talked about the

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the letter that was the the major update
And in the last paragraph, it says that

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municipalities are encouraged to
consider adopting additional optional

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standards. Uh what are those optional
standards and are are we adopt those as

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well?
>> Uh

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I apologize.

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Which portion are you?
>> Um so on 2026 Town Road and bridge

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standards cover letter. Oh, the cover
letter in the third paragraph it said

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colleagues are encouraged to consider
adopting with additional optional

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standards. Um I will apologize I don't
have that. That's the state standard

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letter everybody. Um and so these are
the ones that are required for

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compliance
to that.

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00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:56,800
» Yep. So uh Laura Will city engineer
I was involved in kind of various

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different iterations of previous
standards that we've adopted. The state

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statute standards are very broad and
very minimal to apply to the all the

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communities in Vermont. So they speak to
sometimes wire highways ditching other

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standards um many of which that actually
just don't.

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So the other standards that we're still
talking about are like our engineering

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design standards which the council
adopted back in 2024 or the great

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streets design standards which even
enhance the downtown. So they're talking

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about ones that are specific to your
community which we do already have in

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place. Um and nothing in those two
documents goes against what the state

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has done to update some of their water
management.

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So basically the optional ones either
don't apply or our standards already

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matches exceeded.
>> Yeah. The other standards are our own

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our city of standards.
>> Great. Thank you.

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» Becca, do you have any questions?
>> Nope. Nothing for me. Thank you. Sounds

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good.
Um and so in the memo

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from staff there is a recommended motion
for the two

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willing to make that. Um, I would move
to recommend to the city council the

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adoption of sections 1 through eight of
the 2026 Vermont Agency of

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Transportation Town, Road and Bridge
Standards and authorized Chapen Spencer,

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director of public works to execute the
certificate on behalf of the city

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council.
Is there a second?

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» Second.
>> We have a motion and a second. Any other

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discussion?
Seeing none, all those in favor of the

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motion by saying I
>> I

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» I

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next we're going to GMT funding
initiative update.

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Is that
I believe

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We had

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um so we had asked um
Marty Jas I think was his last name to

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come and present but we have um
wait

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director
Yeah, Mark, I'm sorry. I had some

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00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,680
problem with the audio and I don't I
didn't hear what you said.

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» No, I I said we weren't I I I'm happy to
see you as always at our meeting, but um

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are you here to present on um the
initiative that's ongoing to

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00:16:51,839 --> 00:16:57,120
» No, I just I knew that this was going to
be a topic and I wanted to be available

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00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:04,079
in case you
>> No, I appreciate that. Um

200
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I um I have not heard yet from Marty
after he confirmed

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00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:15,120
there's a delay.
>> So what we might do is um uh move

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forward in the agenda to um unaccepted
streets and when Marty shows up um then

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we can um slot this in after that. How
does that sound everybody? Yeah. Good.

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Well, thank you for disappearing. Um,
so we'll move on to unaccepted streets

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and I'm not sure who's
>> start

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00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,320
this one.
>> Yes, panelist.

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00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:53,200
» All right.
Well, thank you uh to the toque for uh

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00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:58,559
inviting staff back and I want to thank
the council and members of the public

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for uh continued work with us on this
decades long issue to resolve the issue

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of unclear ownership of these private
and unaccepted streets. And we're

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returning tonight to get your feedback.
No formal action is needed. We're

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00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:20,400
seeking feedback on the phasing that we
have proposed on reviewing the streets

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in question. Uh the proposed technical
and legal research that we are proposing

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00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:30,000
uh to do next really are the responsible
steps for determining staff's

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00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:35,919
recommendation
or uh the city council on the

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00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:40,960
disposition of these streets. um as
you're seeing in the charts and I made

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00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:46,799
sure to attach at least a summary of one
of our charts with a lot of numbers and

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spread the cells on it really to
demonstrate that that's just the tip of

219
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the iceberg of the work that staff has
done to understand the very uh detailed

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needs and specifications and existing
conditions

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00:18:59,919 --> 00:19:08,880
and levels of risk of these various
streets. Um the future maintenance and

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capital costs of these streets are
significant. We already struggle to

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maintain our existing street network. So
any decision by the council to accept

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streets in our belief needs to be done
with the technical detail that we want

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to collect for you so that you
understand the full financial burden

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that the city is accepting.
You'll see that the schedule tonight is

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uh longer than I would like. Uh but the
reality is we want to promise you a t

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well we want to offer you a timeline
that we think is uh more practical given

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the financial constraints we have to do
the work. So you'll see in the memo

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chart laying out showing that it would
take us through uh much of FY28 to bring

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back a recommendation to council on the
phase one streets. Uh senior engineer

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and planner Philip Peterson's going to
go more into the detail here. Happy to

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answer questions. We have city engineer
Laura Wheelock and also division

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director Megan Moyer here uh to answer
questions for the respective divisions.

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» Awesome. Thanks Jen. Uh thanks everyone
uh for letting me be here. Philip

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Peterson, senior transportation junior
planner with the city of Bronson. I

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think it's super important to
acknowledge that you know what I

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represent right now is periscope on the
engineering submarine. There are a lot

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of folks on our team that have done a
tremendous amount of work. Um I would be

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super remiss if I don't mention
specifically uh Calvin Bri who's a

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00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:54,480
social engineer who's really kind of an
engine that's led a lot of our work um

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both from a technical aspect and a legal
aspect as well. Um and he's learned a

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00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:07,280
lot. We've learned a lot. Um, so I'm I'm
going to walk uh the committee through

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um kind of what our assessment work has
been, why the phasing looks the way it

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does and what the technical review
actually involves and um but I'm going

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to try not to talk too much about water
resources. We obviously have director

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here to get into that. So what we've
done is we've completed a desktop

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00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:34,960
analysis of all unaccepted and private
streets and we've done a surface

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00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:41,200
inspection of all unaccepted and some
limited private streets. Uh that work

250
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:46,080
gives us a baseline understanding of
pavement condition, geometry,

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00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:50,480
does the street have sidewalks, does it
have curb? Um and general street

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character. Is it designed to some kind
of street standard um that we would uh

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approve? Um what it can't tell us is the
condition of the subsurface and buried

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00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:08,640
utilities which is where water resources
lives where their work is underground.

255
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:12,880
Um and this is the core reason the
project requires kind of a multi-year

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00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:18,559
phase approach. Um if you look at the
cost breakdown between

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um public works technical services, what
we do on service in comparison to the

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00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:28,320
underground utility work, water
resources

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00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:36,320
uh work is exponentially more expensive.
Um and that that is a big driver. So um

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00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:41,440
phase one in general includes streets
that generally resemble an accepted

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00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:47,679
street in design and construction. Some
phase one streets even have city signs

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00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:52,480
on them already. Um, and these are kind
of the lowest risk candidates for deeper

263
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:56,159
investigation. Um, that we feel like um,
we have worked closely with water

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resources on developing that list of
phase one streets. Um, when we think

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about phase two and phase three, those
include streets with higher uncertainty.

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00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:12,080
Don't get me wrong, just go back to
phase one streets real quick. that there

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00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:17,200
are things about phase one streets that
we're not sure about either. And as we

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00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:22,880
do this deeper investigation, we may
find that a phase one street is not as

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00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:26,640
easy as we thought it would be to accept
from a variety of standpoints. We're

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00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,720
hearing from residents that want us to
accept these streets. We haven't heard

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00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:35,600
from residents that do not want their
streets accepted. And those people, they

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00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:39,840
may exist as we go through our
investigation and we do more public

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engagement. The fact of the matter is is
that, you know, one of the questions

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that I anticipate that the tube will ask
is why can't we just accept these

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00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:55,039
streets wholesale? We can't because it's
a two-step process. It's land that needs

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00:23:52,880 --> 00:24:01,600
to be accepted, but it also has to be
dedicated, right? Or it has to be taken.

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00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:07,360
and we don't really have the legal
framework to just condemn the property

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00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:12,000
and move forward which is also why we
need legal help. That's why we need to

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00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:16,720
seek lawyers. Um a major driver with
this work is coordination with water

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00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,400
resources. Um accepting water,
wastewater, storm water infrastructure

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has come some like I'd said some
long-term financial obligations. Um, so

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kind of the next step is this in-depth
assessment. What we can do before FY28

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00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:39,200
is dedicate
tech services and water resources staff

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times toward that legal look, that
historical look. Do have documents that

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00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:48,480
we can look at and get documentation on
up to public engagement. Um, we have

286
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:53,600
received some documentation as it
discusses in the memo. Uh, Deorest is

287
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:57,840
the street where we received some
supplemental documentation from

288
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:02,640
residents and went, "Okay, this is a
section of street that we had not

289
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:06,400
thought was accepted and it is and it's
part of the city public rightway." That

290
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:12,240
was helpful, but there may be other
documentations out there that residents

291
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:16,880
have locked away in their own personal
files that we don't have access to, and

292
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:23,360
those things will come out the further
we get along. Once we get to FY28,

293
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:28,880
that's when the more indepth
subsurface evaluation, drainage

294
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:34,320
performance, utility inspections such as
CCTV that water resources needs to do

295
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:39,200
for sewer and storm water and potholeing
for water, but also B tech services. We

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00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,760
would need to do potholeing to see what
do we have for a street. What does the

297
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:48,480
subgrade look like? Are we building
these streets on clay? Are we building

298
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:53,679
these streets that have just an inch and
a half of asphalt, which is not thick

299
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:58,799
enough for a city street? For a city
street, we want it to be at least three

300
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:05,520
inches thick for a low volume
residential street. Thicker if we're

301
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:10,480
talking about high volume streets. So,
um, we will be requesting funding. We

302
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:14,640
did try to get a budget put together for
FY27

303
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:19,760
given funding constraints. That's was
challenging this year, but we will seek

304
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:24,240
funding and I can see Ashley Parker um
with the Department of Finance and

305
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:29,440
Accounting here, which is great. Uh to
develop that FY28 budget to support

306
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:33,360
consultant services for the subservice
investigation,

307
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,039
surveying, we'll need a land surveyor.
Um we don't have a land surveyor on

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00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:41,679
staff and the legal work. Without that
support, we cannot provide council with

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00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:46,000
the information you need to make
informed decisions that you do need to

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00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:49,919
make. And that's the structure of the
work. Um, if we're missing anything,

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00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:53,120
Megan,
>> explain her investigation.

312
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,760
» Yeah, I think this would probably be an
appropriate time. Um, Megan, if you'd

313
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:04,159
like to talk about what your team, your
excellent team has done.

314
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:10,960
» Certainly. Um, yeah. I know it's been a
uh you know an initial desktop analysis

315
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:17,200
of the infrastructure that exists on
these various streets. A lot of what we

316
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:22,240
looked at and where we are interested in
this project and maybe less hesitant as

317
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:27,120
we are with some of the potential
recommendations is where there's a

318
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:31,600
street where it would be beneficial to
the larger system um to take over the

319
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:36,000
infrastructure there. for instance,
water pipes where uh they're providing

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00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:40,000
what we call looping benefits. It's
actually connecting a section of public

321
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:45,760
pipe to another section of public pipe,
but we don't currently have um complete

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00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:51,440
oversight over the pipe that may be on a
private street. Um but as as Philip

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00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:55,120
said, a lot of what's challenging is not
knowing the full condition of any of

324
00:27:53,039 --> 00:28:00,080
these pipes. And so we've tried to put
together some rough numbers of what

325
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:04,880
potential short-term costs would be if
if say we took over all of the streets

326
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,200
um or accepted all the streets that are
in phase one. We are looking at some

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00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:12,799
pretty substantial uh capital
investments, capital investments that

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00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,399
are not currently in our capital plan
and that we don't currently have

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00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:20,080
borrowing authority for. And so the
question will become with the council,

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00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,279
you know, are we going to push off other
potentially vi uh important projects in

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00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:29,440
order to then invest in these new
streets? Um, you know, how are we going

332
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:34,399
to handle that as a community because it
is going to increase everybody's rates

333
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,679
uh to be able to take on these things.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't do it.

334
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:44,320
I understand that the people on these
streets, they do pay the same rates as

335
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:49,039
others. Um, but it is going to layer an
additional amount of work on what

336
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:55,039
already seems like an impossible amount
of work. Um, and so we're just trying to

337
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:58,880
proceed cautiously. Um, I don't know if
anybody has any specific specific

338
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:04,159
questions, but uh, our team has been
very involved. We appreciated the

339
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:08,799
collaboration with uh the tech technical
services and uh yeah, we look forward to

340
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:16,320
hearing what the council's feedback is
on here on these streets and whether or

341
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:21,039
not I guess the intention really is to
take over every single last street or if

342
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,440
the council does believe that there's
certain streets that sort of fit more of

343
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:31,760
the
city street test than others because I

344
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:36,360
certainly can see some that don't make
as much sense as as other streets.

345
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:46,240
» Megan,
>> um I I think it's important to also note

346
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:52,000
that the cost projections outline both
immediate what it would cost to upgrade

347
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,679
and also the 20-year total cost of
ownership because once we do take on

348
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:01,440
ownership with these streets, they're
ours and they're our responsibility.

349
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:07,440
um it's not one and done. You fix it and
then

350
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:12,000
ideally was the last one because it
again I'm happy to walk through some

351
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:18,320
examples of some phase one streets and
what thinking was also happy to turn it

352
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:22,240
over to take questions. I think Phil the
only thing I would have you add a little

353
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:27,120
bit more because I think it's important
is how the private streets play into the

354
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:31,279
phasing because some of that work may
get done in the short term.

355
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:35,600
» Yeah, happy to do that. Um we have a
really good associate engineer uh

356
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:39,600
Christina Kangallocei who is stepping
into the unaccepted streets project

357
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,919
specifically because she's very good at
organizing things and the private

358
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:49,600
streets are streets that require a lot
of legal organization. We have

359
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:55,279
documentation few of these streets. Uh
little legal bay has a covenant that

360
00:30:52,640 --> 00:31:00,480
clearly states we're a private street.
We do our own stuff. Leave us alone.

361
00:30:58,159 --> 00:31:04,559
We've had communications with them and
documentation that makes it clear we're

362
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:09,520
a private street. Uh there are others
where we have some documentation, but

363
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,960
there are a lot of private streets. UVM
has several private streets that we

364
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,679
don't necessarily have that
documentation on. And what we don't want

365
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,480
to do at the end of this project is
leave loose ends for the next generation

366
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:27,520
of folks coming to work for public works
going why didn't they finish this

367
00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:31,200
project get all the documentation need
on these private streets so we can

368
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:36,000
button it up and those are not our
responsibility for sure. So that's what

369
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:39,440
I have to say about private streets.
Thanks.

370
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:46,240
» Um just to clarify point that there is a
separate chart for probably the least

371
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:50,720
clear subset of streets that we have.
These are ones where entities have

372
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,720
claimed them but they haven't provided
his documentation.

373
00:31:52,559 --> 00:32:03,480
They put up signs. stands court has
assigned marked to private but there's

374
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:03,480
no documentation for or it's one like um

375
00:32:03,679 --> 00:32:11,440
» Northgate where it's very clearly owned
by

376
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:14,559
» by uh an organization who is currently
taking

377
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:19,039
» care of it and has never expressed to
the city in the past they would like us

378
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:22,159
to accept that from them. Um, but there
is a different portion of one of the

379
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:26,080
streets they own and maintain right now
than they would like to accept. So, this

380
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:29,600
one's just a little bit squishier. We
think it falls in the documentation

381
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:33,120
point until it doesn't and it will
either move down into the totally

382
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:39,360
private chart or it may move up into
needing to be a phase three street.

383
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,640
Um, I would like to answer
during public comment.

384
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,720
» Just to be clear on what you just said
about the private streets, there's two

385
00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:52,080
groupings here. One is actually
>> so we have the phase one, two and three

386
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:55,279
» right unaccepted declared private or
proposed private private student

387
00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:59,039
documentation.
>> That is all currently under

388
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:04,000
documentation review which is shown in
the chart table. uh the ones that are

389
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,360
kind of listed at the top of that list
are the ones that have the least amount

390
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:14,159
of certainty that I think we will find
what we need

391
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:19,120
in uh in kind of an easy like
company or HOA

392
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,679
» and do you send you wanted to address
comments?

393
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,960
» I can when you're ready. Yes,
>> if you like if you're if you're done

394
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:29,200
with the presentation you like to do
that before we open it up.

395
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:34,159
Um so quickly some very astute residents
did note that VR does pay the city an

396
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:40,080
annual mileage rate for any accepted
south highway. Um some of these streets

397
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:45,039
may fall under class two and for example
the sherb trans pays about $5,000 a mile

398
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:49,760
to the city for maintenance on class two
streets and for class three streets

399
00:33:47,919 --> 00:33:56,320
which is what chip and drive would be
classified as is $1,800 of a mile. Um,

400
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:01,360
so Chipman Drive specifically, it's
about a thousand fees. It's dollars a

401
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:06,880
year. So there is some money that VR
does pay us. It's definitely not enough

402
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:11,760
to maintain a paved street. Um, but we
do receive some funding. And anything

403
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:17,440
that becomes a class two or one street
does become eligible for a town highway

404
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:22,960
grant, which is a maintenance grant. we
uh are pretty successful using

405
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,560
um as it relates to the documentation
that goes into the estimate. These

406
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:30,399
estimates were developed based on our
average cost per linear foot of similar

407
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:34,159
infrastructure.
So the paving estimate is similar to

408
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:39,760
what we are currently paving streets
for. I guess is Megan's estimates are

409
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:45,359
coming from costs of similar size pipes
for replacement of those types of pipes

410
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:51,960
that are in there. I think we added some
inflation factors four or five years as

411
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,960
well

412
00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:58,640
rough estimates.
>> Yes.

413
00:34:54,079 --> 00:35:05,440
» Yep. Um I'm going to open it up to
committee members next. Um so any

414
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,520
members questions?
>> Go ahead.

415
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:16,240
» Thank you. Um this is great. Appreciate
all the work. Um, I just had a little

416
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:21,040
bit of a clarifying question. I mean,
well, first of all, I think I should say

417
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:26,720
from my perspective, I do lean towards
um I kind of feel like we've already

418
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:32,320
accepted these streets in in many ways
by doing the work over the years and

419
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:38,079
showing up and um in some cases doing
maintenance. So, uh, to me it it feels

420
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:43,839
like more of a a technicality and a
absorption of of the planning of the of

421
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:49,119
a lot of work that's been going on. Um,
but of course I understand, you know,

422
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:54,800
this the dollars get realer the the
further along we go in the process. So,

423
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:59,280
it's important to to to get that full
accounting and I'm glad you're doing

424
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:05,119
that. Um, so more I I think more
discussion to come on that part, but I

425
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,720
did want to Phil, you had you had said
something about Deforest AB that I

426
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:16,079
thought was I I just wanted to clarify
because that particular street caught my

427
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:20,640
eye. Um because the resident that sent
the documentation about accepting it

428
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:25,839
sent some city council meeting minutes
from like the 70s and I happen to notice

429
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:30,640
that the one of the counselors was the
man I bought my house from and so two

430
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,920
city councilors have lived in this in
the house where I live which is like a

431
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:40,400
crazy Burlington story and it's great
but anyway uh I just want to make so

432
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,760
that you had you had described that and
I might be mixing up the roads so

433
00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:47,920
apologies if I am, but you kind of
described that as like a document that

434
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:52,560
surfaced from somebody's basement
and I had thought it was an old city

435
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:56,960
council minutes and so I just want to
make sure that you all have act like it

436
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:03,119
made me realize I don't know do you have
access to city council minutes from the

437
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:07,920
70s and 80s that you can look through to
try to answer some of these questions

438
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:13,119
because um
it seems that that seems important. So,

439
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:20,160
I just wanted to clarify that
>> we do um and we had staff on Junth um

440
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:26,720
actually go to the clerk treasures
office for an entire day and um we

441
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:31,599
looked through how far did we go back?
>> The city council resolutions, not just

442
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:37,359
the minutes. The resolution started in
about the mid60s and we combed through

443
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:42,000
them until 2014
which is about the time that the become

444
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:44,560
a little bit more accurate. Um and
that's all that they said they're down

445
00:37:43,359 --> 00:37:48,880
to their fault.
>> They do have city council resolutions

446
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:54,480
that are older. Um but they are well
they are a lot less organized. Um so

447
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:58,079
we've not delved into that. Uh but we
did come across the actual city council

448
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:01,599
resolution from the meeting minutes
reference that accepted the forest in

449
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,920
the lane.
>> Okay, great.

450
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:09,200
» Forest
road through the south side of Chinton.

451
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,960
» Okay,
>> cool. I just wanted to clarify that as

452
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,760
because if you didn't, I think we would
have to make a real call to the public

453
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:22,160
to like go look in basement and that
would not be a very efficient way of

454
00:38:19,359 --> 00:38:28,000
going about this. So, um that's that
that answers my question. Um thank you.

455
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:32,480
» Yeah, which is where we talk about our
staff time. Just the next step is way

456
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:39,119
less organized and it's not going to be
nearly as efficient. Um but the

457
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:42,480
information is possibly there uh to be
found.

458
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:46,560
» And could I could I just respond to one
one thing that uh counselor said? I

459
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,079
think
>> Go ahead. there has has been potentially

460
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:54,560
a history and I can't say that we've
been perfect in water resources but I

461
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:58,480
think the tendency to you know plow a
street or do other things may be

462
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,200
different from the level of involvement
we've had with the subsurface utilities

463
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,920
um I think where it has gotten fuzzy
sometimes is the drinking water system

464
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:12,480
because it is still our system and we do
still have sort of right of refusal we

465
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:16,480
are involved when um there is a water
main break we may actually respond to a

466
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:21,040
water main break on a private street and
repair it. But per our ordinance, we're

467
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:28,240
able to charge the full cost of that
repair to um to the private homeowners.

468
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:33,839
Um yes. Is it complicated if you have
multiple homes on a street?

469
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:37,599
Absolutely. And that's where I can see
some benefit of just going ahead and

470
00:39:35,839 --> 00:39:40,880
taking things over. But I just wanted to
be clear that I don't know that that's

471
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:44,400
happening with the subsurface utilities.
And because those costs are so much

472
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:49,680
greater, it's just something to keep in
mind. Um, on the sewer lateral piece, I

473
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:56,240
do feel like we have been much more
clear over history with when a pipe is a

474
00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:01,760
piece of private infrastructure and that
they've had to call in other folks in

475
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:05,119
order to uh rotorooer or you know clean
pipes like that. So, I don't know if

476
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:09,880
that's that's helpful, but
>> yeah, thank you.

477
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,880
» That's part of the history. Yep.

478
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:25,200
» Yeah. Thank you for um all the work that
has come into this this document. I this

479
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:32,640
approach makes s sense to me even as as
someone who is also um currently in the

480
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:37,200
camp of we should um in I think in most
of these cases we should be accepting

481
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:42,240
these streets. Um, but I think but I
agree that the this due diligence is

482
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:47,839
necessary both for what we're trying to
do now and also in the future. So

483
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:52,400
there's no complaint for me and I I
completely support the funding and

484
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:57,440
potentially staffing necessary to get
the work done uh now and in the future.

485
00:40:55,359 --> 00:41:04,079
Uh
my question is um well

486
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:12,720
yeah this was kind of spo spoken about
in public forum. Um it's about

487
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:18,000
um the policy side of this. Uh
I I understand that when the for example

488
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:21,520
when the phase one streets are done
you're going to come back to us with

489
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:29,680
recommendations and then we're going to
to move from there. But between now and

490
00:41:24,319 --> 00:41:36,640
then, um what do you all see as
um what policy should the toque the full

491
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:44,160
council maybe the toque and ordinance
combined? What should what policy should

492
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:52,800
we have ready? Um because as you brought
up, there's um there's certain um

493
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:58,400
challenges here with potentially um
trying to accept streets that have no

494
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:04,800
owners um like the whole like dedication
process and stuff. So what what do you

495
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:09,359
see as um the policy goals from the
council um before we even get the

496
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:14,640
recommendations? Is there work to be
done? I think it's a couple of things.

497
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:19,520
First of all, I I just want to point out
that the work that we have to do is not

498
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:23,599
the technicality. I can appreciate the
thought process behind that.

499
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:30,319
Because these a lot of these streets
they look and function like a public

500
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:37,440
street and so but we have to understand
we do know yet whether all owners are

501
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:42,480
dedicated and we don't have
it doesn't like resident parking where

502
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:46,319
51% residents on a street all say we
want resident parking 49% we don't want

503
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:54,560
it
the 51% wins out one resident on that

504
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:59,040
says no, we can't proceed because we
cannot go through eminent domain. In

505
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:05,839
order to go through eminent domain has
to be based on an actual project, a

506
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:11,119
street project. So if and that's work
that we have to do. So that that's that

507
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:15,920
I think what the city council do is help
us with developing.

508
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,079
» So wait, let's not let's not move past
your policy and your evidence do because

509
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:22,960
it does speak to the legal question. The
advice the recommendation of the

510
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:27,119
guidance we've received from the city
council is either we find the person who

511
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:31,839
owns it and assign it over to us or
every property street agrees that city

512
00:43:30,319 --> 00:43:36,400
the owners of the right way and
dedicates it and the city council

513
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:41,520
accepts it. Condomination by state
statute requires that there be an

514
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:47,680
accepted plan by the municipality that
has been publicly vetted towards a

515
00:43:44,319 --> 00:43:52,640
highway project that needs that land.
And that's hard on the streets that we

516
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:57,280
have because we don't have an accepted
public plan which maybe speaks to the

517
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:02,079
policy end of this that as we work with
the city attorney's office if we find

518
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:06,800
that is 98% of the property owners are
ready to sign and there's just

519
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,599
an example one person who lives in
France who's just not going to do that

520
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:13,680
for us um
>> which happened

521
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:19,760
» despite how agreeable they may be
>> uh that that stops our process so that

522
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:25,119
might be the area where your policy or
approach needs to start to be developed

523
00:44:22,319 --> 00:44:30,960
to complete this entire project.
>> And this is where we need consultants.

524
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:36,000
There may be some whisbang lawyer way of
going about it, but some title search

525
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,800
lawyer would know that as civil
engineers, we don't.

526
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,920
» So, you're going to go through budget.
>> Yeah. And I think the other thing we'll

527
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:52,640
do with he is how are we going to
develop budget to to pay for to pay for

528
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:58,000
not just the consultant work but also
the long-term budget leads because as we

529
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:01,599
add more mileage you know payments is
something we talk about a lot. These are

530
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:08,200
streets that are going to come under
that banner of needing to be maintained

531
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:08,200
or just rebuild.

532
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,560
Um

533
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:23,920
um well I guess that thank you um that's
helpful. I and I I appreciate I I don't

534
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:27,520
view that as a technicality. I think
this work is very necessary. Um it's

535
00:45:26,319 --> 00:45:30,520
tough.
Um,

536
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:38,560
yeah. I guess I guess I I guess I I
would personally want to to learn more

537
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:45,760
and maybe I I would need to reach out to
the city attorneys about this about what

538
00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:52,800
um about what we could possibly do. I'm
I'm interested to see if this is a um if

539
00:45:49,440 --> 00:46:01,359
like if we have the ability to
to to alter these um these standards for

540
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:04,880
like for dedication for condemnation for
eminent domain even if it's through the

541
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:08,000
charter process and if it's through the
charter process and that's something

542
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:13,440
that we need to get ahead of that would
be something we need to work on now to

543
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:17,839
to get to to to have everything lined up
by 2028. So if that's if the city

544
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:22,400
attorney comes back and recommends that
we need to go through the charter

545
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:27,119
process that that'd be something that I
want to hear hear back from the law. So

546
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:30,480
yeah, I'm interested in staying in touch
about that.

547
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:34,720
» Yep. Um, I might recommend that one of
our future updates because we're going

548
00:46:32,319 --> 00:46:37,839
to be doing a lot of
work, but maybe we'll have a substantial

549
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,440
amount to bring back as an update, but
maybe find the right time to bring back

550
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:46,079
um either someone from the city
attorney's office or whoever they choose

551
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:49,079
as an outside council secret.
>> Great.

552
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:56,079
» Yeah, I'm good.
>> I had um a few different questions.

553
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:02,160
» Um,
>> first I'll give a comment. Uh Sharon

554
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:07,200
Busher um wasn't able to make or she a
long voicemail. Uh basically the gist of

555
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:14,880
her voicemail which you can treat as a
public comment is that um given the type

556
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:22,560
financial uh circumstances the city's in
right now that maybe um we might want to

557
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:27,119
push all this work out um till after I
think she specifically talked about um

558
00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:33,040
some of the water bonding started to
work its way way through. Um so there's

559
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:39,839
additional costs taxpayers
uh they would be incurring those um in

560
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:44,640
the next three or four budget years. And
some part of her rationale which I don't

561
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:49,200
necessarily disagree with is this isn't
a problem that just happened. This is a

562
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:54,400
problem that's sort of out there for
decades. Um and so what would would

563
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:58,880
three or four more years make a
difference? Now I I'm not saying that we

564
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:02,800
should postpone it. I'm just offering
those because Sharon wasn't here to

565
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:08,480
speak at public forum and she had made
the effort to give those comments. Um I

566
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:13,200
do uh have a couple questions around
some of the things that were said. One

567
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,520
was around the review of city council
minutes. It's more of just curiosity.

568
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:22,800
Are these things digitized at this point
or are you got is the research project

569
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:27,040
actually going through paper?
>> It's a paper effort. We brought in

570
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:30,960
several city staff. This is why we ask
staff who were already choosing to work

571
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:34,880
on the holiday um to do this one task
because it was very invasive in our

572
00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:37,520
treasurer's office and doing that on a
regular day would have been hard with so

573
00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:41,119
many staff.
>> Um there is also a book of meeting

574
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:45,040
minutes which the attorney's office
recommended that we take a look at but

575
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:49,440
that was too cumbersome to include the
other research we did that day. Um but

576
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:53,760
that is another place where they noted
that street acceptances could be noted

577
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:58,079
and maybe the resolution would never be
found. I think there was an effort when

578
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,920
I first got on the council to I think
councelor high tower even maybe

579
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:07,440
experimented it and it was about trying
to appropriate money some of the co

580
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,480
monies even to digitize
>> the land records are digitized

581
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:15,119
» it's just land
>> um which is amazing to have the

582
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,319
resolutions
if you want to talk about policies this

583
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,000
is not related to this one although
probably would have helped um the

584
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,680
resolutions are a mess and there is
definitely some inefficiencies in the

585
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,319
treasures the attorney's office um where
people will literally look through the

586
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,760
same boxes we just looked through but
they're looking for different things.

587
00:49:29,839 --> 00:49:36,720
» Right. Okay. Well, that sounded a matter
but thank you for clarifying that. Um my

588
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:41,040
next question was about private streets
going forward. I understand we have to

589
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:44,880
untangle this right now.
>> But it's like how do we keep ourselves

590
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,040
from having to untangle future private
streets? Is there policy now around like

591
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:53,280
if someone's building condo development
or something that is there policy and

592
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:58,480
procedure in place that they have to
adhere to in order to get sign up

593
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:02,640
» remain private? Yes. Um additionally we
have talked internally we will replace

594
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:06,480
every street sign with the word PBT on
it for streets that we find that are

595
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,760
declared private. So there's a lot more
clarity,

596
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,240
» right?
>> Um

597
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:15,040
» we already have one that we're working
on with fire department right now. It's

598
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:18,480
right off Broadway. It's gone through a
couple of name changes. I think it's now

599
00:50:17,359 --> 00:50:24,800
broad jump.
>> I think so.

600
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:30,559
» Let us make this.
>> Yeah. The planning through the zoning

601
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:35,280
process
these uh issues get worked out. We have

602
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:39,920
engineering standards now that make it
very clear what they need to build it to

603
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:44,000
for us to be willing to accept it. So
really this is a problem of looking

604
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,240
backwards not a problem current day
going

605
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:50,640
» but I'm not even talking about accepting
any of these streets in the f new street

606
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:55,599
gets built a new private street gets
built it'll have a different engineering

607
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:58,720
standard than what we would maybe uh
insist upon for our own public streets

608
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:04,640
right
>> and I mean is there some standard by

609
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:10,640
which those streets have to I mean they
some documentation process I guess so

610
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:16,079
that we know and it's clear so that some
future generation as Philip alluded to

611
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:21,119
of DPW employees isn't like wondering
about it and we have that those

612
00:51:18,319 --> 00:51:26,079
standards in place now. Yes, the the
form-based codes

613
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:30,000
appendix uh comprehensive development
ordinance references engineering

614
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:34,960
standards that are outlined um by the
city of Burlington either as adopted

615
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:39,040
speaking back to the 2024 standards and
then they also lightly describe what's

616
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:42,079
required so that there's a hint as to
kind of as people are like I don't want

617
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:46,400
to go to this whole other document like
what's needed about

618
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:51,440
» just ownership and all that
>> and also you know how to how to build a

619
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,760
driveway. ways it's or a road or that
you know

620
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:58,480
» so that it's also going to just be
durable for the residents that speaks to

621
00:51:55,599 --> 00:52:01,760
the timing which um Sharon Busher
mentioned

622
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:07,040
» a lot of these as um we look through
this list especially on the paving side

623
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:11,760
but uh sometimes within the water side
you'll see it's like one of the middle

624
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:15,520
middle columns it talks about
transportation timeline or water

625
00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:20,800
resources timeline and you'll either see
a short medium or long term which is our

626
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:24,240
best estimate based on the information
we've gathered

627
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:26,800
about how long before we need to make
the financial investment in the street

628
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,400
and there are some of these that are
within the one to fiveyear time frame

629
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:34,240
and so pushing us off five years is
going to make it so that waiting to

630
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,760
invest in the street if we accept it
we're dealing

631
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:40,319
um which has to be financially planned
for so

632
00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:43,839
» I get it
>> that would be the concern

633
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:47,839
» the other the other piece to what Laura
just said is what's challenging from the

634
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,200
subsurface utility perspective is that
even if we have a pipe that's like a

635
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:56,640
medium
term right uh need but if Laura's going

636
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:01,359
to get in there and do her surface work
then it ends up accelerating when we

637
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:06,720
should coordinate and maybe make that
investment. So it's just an additional

638
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:10,960
layer of sort of uh unanticipated
capital expenditures that we're we're

639
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:16,160
trying to juggle.
No, I I appreciate that. And I again, I

640
00:53:13,119 --> 00:53:20,800
wasn't advocating. I was relaying a
public comment. Um and but it seemed

641
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:26,079
like a legitimate
>> Yeah. legitimate issue to raise.

642
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:30,319
» Um then the next thing and the last
thing I'll I'll we'll talk about right

643
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:34,800
now is that I I I appreciate all this
work and I think we absolutely have to

644
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:40,240
be doing this. Um
the the thing I wonder about though is

645
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:47,280
like when we and I think we need to know
these these numbers uh that are in the

646
00:53:43,359 --> 00:53:53,200
um the Excel sheet here um and and the
expected timelines and whatnot. But the

647
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:56,800
reality is I think for many of these
streets or let's say a significant

648
00:53:55,119 --> 00:54:02,319
number of them we're doing this work
already anyways. If there's a break on a

649
00:53:59,359 --> 00:54:05,839
water break somewhere we're going to fix
it. Um I don't know that we're charging

650
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:08,160
back residents.
>> We are.

651
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:13,040
» We are. Okay. Well, that's good to know
as well. But but

652
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:19,680
» but if there are, you know, there's some
of these things I know that we're we're

653
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:24,079
fixing in an ongoing way. Um so it's not
like these are all necessarily

654
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,839
new costs, but what we're doing is
formalizing

655
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:34,160
the costs that we would incur. So if
we're doing future bonding and capital

656
00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:36,880
planning, we know what that is. Um, and
it's not just pothole.

657
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,559
» No, I understand.
>> I totally get it. I totally get it. But

658
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:45,599
I'm just I just want to
>> name that we are doing some of this work

659
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:49,200
already and we have been doing it for
decades.

660
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:54,240
» The the life maintenance costs are not
the financial concern. is the

661
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:58,559
substantial reinvestment to bring a
asset back up to beginning of its useful

662
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:03,119
life, which is the cost that staff have
concerns about as we've considered the

663
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:07,520
budget. Um, as we've done capital
forecasting or our capital program

664
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:10,720
director,
those have just never been in it because

665
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,440
they've not been part of the city's
asset classes. Uh,

666
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:19,040
» and that is the the costs that we are
the most concerned about. plowing, pott

667
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:24,960
filling, adding a little bit of dirt,
grading, you know, some of the dirt

668
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:30,400
streets is small enough.
>> They're also also accepted streets in

669
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:34,480
our network now that when we go to fix
them, we realize that they're

670
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,880
substandard and need a lot more than we
expect. I think Main Street was one of

671
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:43,359
them, right? I mean,
>> Bennington Court Bennington Court. So,

672
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:50,400
so I mean the these these infirmities of
these streets are are are lack of um

673
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:54,240
living up to current standards are
>> they're they're not unique to the

674
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:59,839
unaccepted streets and the private
streets. They're also

675
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:05,680
characteristics of some of our streets
accepted streets. There is a history um

676
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:08,640
back in the middle 70s early 80s that
the um city council and the

677
00:56:07,359 --> 00:56:13,760
administration at the time went through
a massive acceptance of anything that

678
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:17,440
looked like a street look like a duck,
walk like a duck. That is literally what

679
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:24,559
they did. They grabbed it, they brought
it in, they accepted it. Uh

680
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:29,280
and there are, for example, Ben Court
had barely an inch of asphalt on it.

681
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:34,000
when we went to repaint it, we build it
up, we found sand underneath, um, which

682
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:38,000
changed the way we had to approach our
this season. So, yes, there's still

683
00:56:35,359 --> 00:56:41,359
those surprises that exist out there as,
uh, we find these streets that were

684
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:45,359
developed.
>> So, it is better to go into this with

685
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:50,480
our eyes open and clear, but but I just
want wanted for the record known that

686
00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:55,119
this is not unique to this cl these
unaccepted streets that these are these

687
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:59,520
are other problems that we encounter
regularly. discover new

688
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:03,440
» rediscover and new things and surprises
and hopefully with our engineering

689
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:07,760
standards and um and other recent
advancements we'll say that we're less

690
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:11,200
likely to find those things going
forward.

691
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:16,240
» Correct. Um, you know, I I do want to
say, you know, as we consider this, you

692
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:20,480
know, you have a a group of city staff
here who understand the commit the

693
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:25,839
scenario that we're currently in and
needing to solve this problem one way or

694
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:30,240
the other of either accepting or uh
asking residents to become some sort of

695
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:34,240
association with private. If for some
reason, you know, as we're looking at

696
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:39,440
phase one,
a street under phase two, I lane I think

697
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:43,440
is the least likely I lane comes
forward. Every resident on the street

698
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:48,400
says we have we have signed this deed.
We are ready the city to accept this

699
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:51,440
street. We will that's it. We'll move it
forward. We'll tell you that this is

700
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:55,359
what's happening. This is all the
information we have on it. Do you want

701
00:57:53,359 --> 00:58:00,240
us to collect more or are you ready to
accept the risk that you know we're

702
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:03,680
using 20% estimates to give you a asset
value of the street?

703
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,680
» Have to be a property owner.
>> Yeah. But that's possible if possible if

704
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:12,400
as we share with the public what we're
doing here.

705
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:16,319
North Cove is probably one of the ones
that I suspect may, you know, as a

706
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:20,720
neighborhood come together and just be
like, I'm doing this. We're all doing

707
00:58:18,799 --> 00:58:26,640
this. Collecting signatures. We're going
to go forward. extension,

708
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:32,319
» right? Um, okay. And and the other
thing, Becca alluded to it a little bit,

709
00:58:29,359 --> 00:58:36,240
but I think as we are doing outreach to
these streets, I think it's probably

710
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:41,599
worthwhile saying go to your basement
and your filing cabinets and give us any

711
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:45,920
documentation you might have that might
be different than what's in some of the

712
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:50,160
city records or might be harder to find
in the city records. That's right.

713
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:54,319
» Of the way way.
We welcome any private information. The

714
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:59,200
more information we have collectively,
the better decisions we and frankly you

715
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:03,760
all as the deciders get to make.
>> We should depend on it. But it's a it's

716
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:10,799
a nice to have if we can get it.
>> Exactly. And Laura segueed to uh two

717
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:15,760
streets that I think is as Merrick you
talked about policy that we will need to

718
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:22,079
get the council to be thinking about are
streets uh such as North Cove Road that

719
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:30,240
don't have some utilities on it and what
your expectation is about whether or not

720
00:59:27,359 --> 00:59:35,520
utilities will be built out on those
streets as part of acceptance or not.

721
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:41,760
Currently, North Cove does not have
sewer service and they have private

722
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:46,640
septic. So, that's going to be an
important policy discussion for the

723
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:51,599
council to grapple with. If you have any
additional initial kind of thoughts now,

724
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:57,119
fine. But ultimately, this is going to
be a long-term uh policy decision

725
00:59:55,040 --> 01:00:00,640
squarely council
understanding that those roads it's

726
00:59:58,799 --> 01:00:05,119
probably not as simple as just running a
new sewer line. We're talking pump

727
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:10,319
station and force main which the costs
are much heavier.

728
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,520
» It's a low point. You got to get it up
the hill.

729
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:16,000
» Yeah.
>> So, um what for? So, you don't need

730
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:20,240
anything else from two tonight. This is
more of an update. Are you bringing this

731
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:24,640
same update to the council at some
point?

732
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:30,319
» We have uh not thought about a full
council presentation. We one idea just

733
01:00:27,839 --> 01:00:33,680
speaking off top of my head is that we
could share with the council in a

734
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:38,799
communication what we discussed with the
toque so that there was awareness about

735
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:45,520
the phased approach and see if there's
any input from them given that we're

736
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:52,319
really limited at least in FY27 to staff
time desktop review initial research

737
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:56,160
that that may be sufficient for now.
>> Okay. But you tell me if if the council

738
01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:01,920
feels otherwise.
>> We might um ask that I think maybe we

739
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:07,359
attach this um
this memo and maybe commun well with the

740
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:10,799
communication to the council's
>> and then you could speak to it as part

741
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:15,599
of your council committee updates.
>> Yeah, you can do that.

742
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:19,520
» Okay. Would it be good to know too city
council would like city staff to

743
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:25,839
continue public engagement at this
point? Like what you all would envision

744
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:30,400
city staff doing for public engagements?
U well certainly street I mean for

745
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:36,559
myself and I'll open up to the
committee. Certainly if you've I I don't

746
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:43,359
disagree with your phasing. I know that
you have reasons for phasing things this

747
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:47,920
way. Um but within the phase one streets
eventually I would think we would need

748
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:52,880
to start doing outreach
in some form to all of the residents of

749
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:57,520
I don't know what you're whether you're
talking about a meeting like you're

750
01:01:54,160 --> 01:02:01,359
talking about a mailing or what
>> so that was kind of proposed I wrote the

751
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:06,079
section which is why I feel a little
less familiar with it um that basically

752
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:11,839
you know we need to work internally on
our own budget um to try to continue to

753
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:18,079
build out a 28 and funds to the
investigation. Uh concurrently, it's the

754
01:02:14,799 --> 01:02:22,400
public engagement at a street level
conversation because all of almost all

755
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,680
of these streets are very different or
in a different part of town or will have

756
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:29,839
different conditions based on their size
and availability. And even as much as

757
01:02:27,839 --> 01:02:33,760
Chitn and Iran are right next to each
other, the streets themselves are very

758
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:37,839
fundamentally different in how they're
built. one may allow on street parking

759
01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:43,359
and the other one is probably not going
to have enough space to fit it. Um so

760
01:02:40,799 --> 01:02:47,440
you know very much a neighborhood street
by street level discussion is what we

761
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:53,839
envision
>> and we can involve counselors in those

762
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:57,839
words as well the MPA
>> I don't know that I want to bring it in

763
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:02,000
through the NPA just because that brings
in such a large component of a

764
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:05,520
neighborhood and this literally needs to
be an understanding if you become an

765
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:09,040
accepted city street you're paying
incumbrance fees if you want to have a

766
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:13,440
moving truck on the street you're going
to have to do this. Do you envision

767
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:17,039
wanting on street parking? Do you not
want on street parking? You're not going

768
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:24,559
to be able to get resident parking if we
put, you know, so it's extremely

769
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:27,599
specific to just these property owners.
>> I I we can do it as a communication

770
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:32,880
tool.
>> Okay. Yes.

771
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:35,880
» Um we Is there more Beck if you have
more?

772
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:44,160
» No, thank you.
>> Okay. Um I I want to move us I know you

773
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:49,760
had a question if you can keep it the to
less than a minute we allow.

774
01:03:46,319 --> 01:03:54,160
» Sure. I just want to say that um I'll
talk about finances and projected

775
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:58,559
expenses and whatnot. I think the city
like I pay a lot of taxes for a very

776
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:03,839
small house a raised ranch which is
constantly prepare 13,000 a year of

777
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:10,240
payment. I get nothing. No Vermont
asset, no telephone, whatever. And I

778
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:13,839
have to do this. And I really object to
the flip value where you just say, "Oh

779
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,799
yes, the comm the homeowners are going
to pay for a water break." It's like

780
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:20,079
that's horrible. That would be like my
retirement. And I don't feel like I'm

781
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:24,400
part of the community. I've lived in
Burlington since 1986. And when you can

782
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:29,200
just dismiss these kinds of things so
out of hand, it doesn't feel great. I

783
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:33,440
would say in terms of what this is going
to cost, you know what we're paying now?

784
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:37,440
Nothing. And the city, I feel like, is
liable for allowing these streets. My

785
01:04:35,359 --> 01:04:40,720
street was built 60 years ago. And Tony
Pomelo, when he was alive, would say,

786
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:44,559
"We're gonna sell it to the city for a
dollar." They did that all through the

787
01:04:42,319 --> 01:04:48,799
70s and 80s. And you know, nobody wanted
to take assume the cost. Well, I'm a

788
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:52,720
member of this community. I pay taxes.
And the fact that um this can just you

789
01:04:51,359 --> 01:04:55,280
could be so flippant like, "Oh, they've
only have they don't have three inches

790
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:59,440
of tarmac. We're not gonna, you know,
like I'm going to tell the community

791
01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:02,880
that it's going to be a exorbitant cost
and everybody's going to get upset." You

792
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:08,400
know, it's like I am a member of this
community to dismiss my

793
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:11,760
» But thank you. Thank you for asking.
It's kind of outrageous and I think you

794
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:15,599
guys are at fault.
>> We appreciate you being here.

795
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:18,720
» So many
years that nobody dealt with this and of

796
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:23,920
course the streets are in disrepair
because nobody the city didn't want

797
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:27,280
Steve Goodkind in 2014 said I don't want
to pay for the streets and they didn't.

798
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,640
And they got further and further and
worse repair. And it's it's the city's

799
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:33,920
fault. It's not my fault.
>> Well, we're we're we're we're working on

800
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:36,720
it and we appreciate your input.
>> I'm sorry. I'm so

801
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:41,760
» No, no, it's fine. And I'm I'm hoping
>> I just it's just it's just the the the

802
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:44,720
attitude. It's just it's it's people's
lives, you know. I know it's a budget. I

803
01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:48,400
know there's technical stuff and I know
there's legal stuff, but it's people's

804
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:51,839
lives.
>> Yeah, it's understandable.

805
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:58,240
» I Okay.
>> Um but this this is to be continued. Um

806
01:05:55,039 --> 01:06:03,920
and I think we're making good progress
on plan. Yeah. And we're gonna discuss

807
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:08,079
the policy aspects
of council.

808
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,480
» Follow up about the estimates or
>> we can talk,

809
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:18,559
» but appreciate appreciate those who came
with me. Thank you.

810
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:23,280
» Thank you. Um, so we're going to
continue on and now we're going to go

811
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:28,240
backwards in our agenda
to our GMT funding initiative and

812
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,440
clarity.
>> Hi, nice to meet you.

813
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:38,480
» Join us at the table.
>> Um, and um, we were talking that um,

814
01:06:34,799 --> 01:06:43,119
despite best intentions, neither
or Merrick or I or Becca could make it

815
01:06:41,119 --> 01:06:48,720
to either of the things we've had so
far. were hoping you could do giving

816
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:55,760
give us an update on how this initiative
is proceeding and and what you sort of

817
01:06:54,240 --> 01:07:02,319
um say your name for the record.
>> Sure. Yeah, my name is Marty Gillies.

818
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:08,559
» Um apologies for
>> um so this initiative kind of came from

819
01:07:05,839 --> 01:07:14,480
some local citizen advocates. Uh it's
been sort of taken up by the BNRC or not

820
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:19,760
natural resources council. um they
operate the transportation for Vermont's

821
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:24,240
team for BT program. So it's uh it's got
its own website but it is part of BNRC

822
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:31,599
and the staff people who run it are BNRC
staff um and B T forBT is sort of a

823
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:39,440
broad coalition of uh transportation
um minded groups clubs in there 350 per

824
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:42,319
month other climate organization AP so
just a kind of a wide consortium of

825
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:47,359
folks that are interested in
transportation mostly public transitive

826
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:53,200
walk bike groups
um and So they're sort of leading the

827
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:59,680
charge here. And so um
we've had two meetings to date. Um and

828
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:03,520
the first sort of thing on the the
agenda is the September 22nd press

829
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:07,760
conference.
Um

830
01:08:05,359 --> 01:08:13,039
I believe at the last meeting it was
agreed that that would be at the GMT

831
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:16,560
um headquarters, but then there was some
talk maybe we'll have it at the downtown

832
01:08:14,319 --> 01:08:24,400
training center. Um but that'll be on
September 22nd. Time has not yet been uh

833
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:30,640
locked in. Um and I think the point of
press conference is sort of as before

834
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:34,880
November elections and as uh legislators
at the state level are sort of ramping

835
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:40,239
up for the January start session. um
just trying to communicate to the state

836
01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:45,359
and to our policy makers at that level
that there's a sort of a large

837
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:50,719
demographic group that cares um pretty
deeply and has a great need for transit.

838
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:56,719
Um,
I think one of the discussion points has

839
01:08:53,839 --> 01:09:03,520
been, you know, the urban versus rural
elements. And in this press conference,

840
01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:07,359
are we going to try to fold in um folks
from central Vermont, Northeast Kingdom,

841
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:11,920
southern Vermont, or is this going to be
more of a concerted shifting county push

842
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:15,120
to say, hey, like specifically here in
our area that is more urban than most of

843
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:18,719
Vermont? This is especially important to
us and you know, kind of get a little

844
01:09:16,799 --> 01:09:24,159
bit steamrolled or lost sometimes at the
state level. Um so I think the ultimate

845
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:28,400
decision over the first two meetings was
uh there is a January press conference

846
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,520
in Montpillar that maybe it would make
more sense for central Vermont and

847
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:36,400
Northeast Kingdom folks to come to and
sort of present that unified front that

848
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:40,000
across the state this is a need. Um but
this September press conference I think

849
01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:45,440
it's going to be more of a Chen County
focus. Uh

850
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:50,239
speakers at this time I think we have
Tosh Rener mayor Wooki is planning on

851
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:56,400
being there. Um
I believe someone from Essex Junction

852
01:09:53,600 --> 01:10:00,480
City Council is going to be there. Uh
ARP

853
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:05,840
CATMA Champ
looking at maybe grabbing the housing

854
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:11,679
person or two um just to sort of you
know find that interconnectedness of

855
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:17,920
transit enabling more housing less money
less traffic etc. Um, so that's kind of

856
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:25,520
where we're at on that element of the
the thing. And then beyond September

857
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:29,600
22nd, uh, I think that is still a little
bit more in the air, but the idea is

858
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:34,159
that transportation for Veranters would
be in their platform and and this group

859
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:37,920
would be sort of working to highlight
um, existing

860
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:42,800
um,
and ongoing efforts to promote bus

861
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:48,159
ridership. I think broadly speaking bit
more of advocacy education campaign

862
01:10:45,679 --> 01:10:52,159
looking to get choice riders just trying
to spread the word a little bit more

863
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:57,280
about whereab routes exist stuff like
that for example GMT just extended the

864
01:10:55,199 --> 01:11:02,000
number nine route so now it goes to the
Shaw Pchester it's the first time that

865
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,560
will have transit access to a like a
major grocery store that's kind of a big

866
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:10,320
deal and that's no it's not in the news
and that's not something that's super

867
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:15,920
well publicized just I'm trying to to do
more to make those little victories and

868
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:19,120
make things more public. But I think so
far a lot of the effort has been on the

869
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:24,800
set of second press conference and I
think the sort of education advocacy

870
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:28,320
campaign comes next. Um the other big I
guess thing worth talking about is that

871
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:34,400
there it's not going to be so much a
policy or a legislative campaign. I

872
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:39,199
think a lot of folks
um in the T4BT coalition feel that the

873
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:45,520
way things are set up right now, there's
not a ton of wiggle room budget wise or

874
01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:49,679
politically speaking to make big moves
on transit funding this session. Um so I

875
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:53,840
think the intention is sort of to get
the ball rolling to sort of prime

876
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:58,320
legislators and media and stuff like
that to to cover this in a different way

877
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:00,800
or to be more receptive of this issue
moving forward. But I don't think that

878
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:08,159
there's any expectation that there's
going to be huge

879
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:13,440
changes made this session as result.
>> Okay. Um, I will add, uh, Councelor

880
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:19,760
Bergman isn't here this evening, but he
sent me a note prior to the meeting, um,

881
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:24,400
suggesting that
we send we, uh, draft a statement um,

882
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:28,480
sent to send to the full council in
support of this and also send it to

883
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:33,760
legislators and legislative candidates,
the mayor and their administration, ask

884
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:40,159
that they join u this effort or support
this effort at a point.

885
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:44,239
Um, and so that's also something that we
as a committee could could help

886
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:51,360
undertake if there was interest in doing
that. So I'll open it up to uh committee

887
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:58,320
members for um comments and discussion.
Um but yeah, sure. Uh thanks for thanks

888
01:12:55,600 --> 01:13:01,320
for coming. Um
um

889
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:10,159
uh you uh for the press first for for
the press conference if you uh want one

890
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:14,719
of us for to speak the press conference
have some or maybe someone from the

891
01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:24,719
mayor's office or something a Burlington
speaker. Uh I think that would be cool.

892
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:30,719
uh if that's a need or want. Um
I guess now now going into what I guess

893
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:37,360
what you were talking about um
and Clayton maybe you can um confirm

894
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:41,679
this. Um you so you said that um in
going into the next session there aren't

895
01:13:40,159 --> 01:13:47,360
there doesn't there aren't plans
currently for a I guess like a

896
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:51,679
legislative logging campaign around
around the budget specifically. Do you

897
01:13:49,280 --> 01:14:01,040
think the budget's going to remain
stable for GMT? Because my concern is

898
01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:03,760
that I maybe maybe there's not um like
you said the wiggle room, the

899
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:07,520
consciousness among among the
legislature yet to make a full push for

900
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:14,400
increased funding which I think we
desperately need. Um but for for years

901
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:19,360
now it's been it's not even been about
increasing funding, it's been about

902
01:14:15,679 --> 01:14:24,320
holding the line. Do you think that um
would there be worth in having some type

903
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:27,199
of effort on even just holding the line
because it seems like it just gets

904
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:32,880
chipped away to learn more?
>> No, it definitely does. Um yeah, like I

905
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:37,520
said, I'm not a huge Montillar policy
expert or anything like that. Um the

906
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:40,800
BNRC folks are are like professional
lobbyists. Um so they're the ones who

907
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,760
are sort of reading the room.
>> Yeah.

908
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:47,760
» Relaying that to me. Um, I think the big
push

909
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:51,760
policy wise would be the dedication of a
separate

910
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:55,760
dedicated transit funding source. So
there's some some tax or some fee at the

911
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:58,640
state level and all that always goes to
transit and there's a pot of money

912
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,600
specifically reserve for transit and
it's not we're not taking a little bit

913
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:05,600
out of the trans general fund that
you're hearing kind of argu about how

914
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:12,640
much that is. Um, and my understanding
is that folks feel like it's maybe not

915
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:19,600
the right time or not yet the right time
to um go for a full court

916
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:23,199
push on our legislators to make that
happen this session. I think the thought

917
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:26,880
is that there should be some sort of
priming that hey like this is an issue,

918
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:31,280
this is an issue and once folks sort of
accept and our our donkey business says

919
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:36,080
that this is an issue then that's the
solution, right? Um

920
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:40,880
Paul order to get that immediately done.
I think especially Bill Scott is pretty

921
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:48,080
vocal that he wants to know your taxes
fees. Um and this you know if it maybe

922
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:52,960
comes out to be a net zero any less of
the this general fund is coming from

923
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:57,520
this other pot maybe the total total
amount is the same but it would probably

924
01:15:54,880 --> 01:16:01,520
end up having a new sort of tax or fee
or or something like that. And so the

925
01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:07,920
thoughts that the Scott administration
would be pretty opposed and unless

926
01:16:04,239 --> 01:16:12,719
there's pretty widespread grab support
for something like that. Um they might

927
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:16,640
be like sort of dead on arrival.
>> Yeah. Not well I I agree with you about

928
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:22,640
that. I think it's a I think that's a
great long-term goal. Uh, and I yeah, I

929
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:27,920
would also agree that based off of past
sessions that it's um

930
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:31,600
not not great chances, but yeah, just
just flagging that like we've seen just

931
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:35,360
year over year, you know, this that the
data is that it's not just been like

932
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:41,600
they're leaving it stable, that they're
they're forcing GMT to cut millions of

933
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:46,800
dollars. And I um yes, like I I agree
with you about like any sort of

934
01:16:44,159 --> 01:16:51,440
increasing um and even what you said
about creating a dedicated funding

935
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:55,440
source. Uh but if if Phil Scott comes
out and says we're we're going to make

936
01:16:52,560 --> 01:17:01,600
GMT cut another $3 million
um it's they think there needs to be and

937
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:06,719
even just a campaign to hold the line
could also be part of that priming the

938
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:11,360
pumps for doing more in the future. And
like I said, um the first two meetings

939
01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:14,480
of the sort of organizing committee have
been some logistics of the match went

940
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:18,159
too. And I think there's there's a lot
of wiggle room for what this campaign

941
01:17:16,719 --> 01:17:25,040
looks like moving forward. And so I
think um I certainly don't mean to like

942
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:29,080
shut like doors
to the table and stuff. There's there's

943
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:29,080
ton

944
01:17:29,199 --> 01:17:37,120
to respond with any insights that you
might have at this early stage about

945
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:41,920
future funding. too early or is it too
early? Um,

946
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:45,840
» it's not too early because um I have um
so I have some good news and bad news as

947
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:51,920
usual. Uh but before I I dive into that,
I I do just want to thank Marty for his

948
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:57,760
efforts um uh both with this and his uh
work on our uh ridership um uh

949
01:17:55,520 --> 01:18:01,920
accessibility council uh that we have.
So thank you very much for uh for

950
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:07,679
supporting GMT in such a great way uh
Marty. And so, um, one of the things

951
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:12,000
that, uh, uh, Mariki brought up about
funding uncertainty and the last time I

952
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:17,199
was there, I talked about, uh, concerns
about the federal funding levels and,

953
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:22,480
uh, one of the things that it appears
that next year's federal funding levels

954
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:27,360
will be, uh, flat for GMT, so that we
won't have a reduction. So, so that's

955
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:31,760
the the good news that um we have to
report. But I I I should say that, you

956
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:36,480
know, until a continuing resolution is
fully passed and signed by the

957
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:42,239
president, um you know, we don't know
exactly if that funding will be uh level

958
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:46,000
as we think it will be. The thing that
I'm more concerned about, and uh this is

959
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:52,960
something that Chapen um heard at our
last uh GMT board meeting, is that the

960
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:58,000
ridership uh numbers um uh have gone
down more than we anticipated with our

961
01:18:55,840 --> 01:19:02,880
service reductions from the past year.
Um we are in my opinion dangerously

962
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:07,600
close to losing some of our performance
awards. um if we do lose those

963
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:11,920
performance awards, that is the first
step in a death spiral. And uh people

964
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:17,199
don't like it when I say it, but that's
the reality. And so uh uh so that is

965
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:21,440
really the thing that concerns me
because any future cuts we're we're

966
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:26,800
already probably have cut to the point
that we're going to lose performance

967
01:19:22,719 --> 01:19:30,960
awards and any future cuts is means in
my mind that that will be pretty much

968
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:35,840
definite.
>> Thank you. Um,

969
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:39,840
Becca, did you want to make comments or
ask questions?

970
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:44,960
» Uh, no, just thank you for all this
work. It's it's important and um I

971
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:53,040
definitely support keeping the funding
and um I hope that we um don't see the

972
01:19:51,199 --> 01:19:58,640
wrership continue to go down. I think
that that's not great news, Clayton. And

973
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:02,719
but I'm I'm glad you're flagging it so
that we have the opportunity to do

974
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:08,400
something. Thanks.
>> Thank you. Um, so it seems like there's

975
01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:13,520
two actions that um, we could take. One
is to send a representative to the press

976
01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:18,880
conference on the 22nd. Merrick, would
you be willing to be a representative

977
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:25,360
since you're inhouse uh, transit expert,
sorry, or GMT expert? Anyways, um, be

978
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:32,880
happy to. Um, and so we could do that.
Um, and we could also uh I could work

979
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:36,960
with Marty to to draft a um a
communication on behalf of the committee

980
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:39,360
that we could maybe circulate to the
council.

981
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,440
» I think Jean had sort of mentioned that
maybe you've done this in previous

982
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:46,400
years.
>> What we've done in in the past is we've

983
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:52,560
actually sponsored resolutions probably
on three different occasions that I can

984
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:58,640
recall. um and that we would sponsor
resolutions at the council level that

985
01:20:54,400 --> 01:21:02,960
then go on to um the legislature, you
know, about and usually during the

986
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:08,320
legislative session to try to to
advocate for funding and we've done that

987
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:12,239
um in the past and I don't know how
effective they've been, but hopefully

988
01:21:10,159 --> 01:21:19,199
they've been they've been helpful and
Clayton and worked with us on on those

989
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:24,400
um as well at times. So um in this in
this particular case you see how you're

990
01:21:21,679 --> 01:21:28,719
the press conference is really vehicle
ahead of the election cycle and trying

991
01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:33,199
to get people to commit to them and
whatnot. We could certainly um try to

992
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:38,080
help with that with some sort of
statement of support. I I would work

993
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:43,360
with you if the committee is good with
me doing so um on that and maybe um we

994
01:21:41,679 --> 01:21:48,080
could you know not as committee because
we probably won't vote on it tonight but

995
01:21:45,679 --> 01:21:52,560
as in as we've done in the past as
individual counselors we could sign on

996
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:57,040
as two members as individual counselors
if we could have a statement that's

997
01:21:54,320 --> 01:22:01,600
acceptable to all four of us and we
could bring that to the full to

998
01:21:59,679 --> 01:22:04,400
constitute obvious sign.
>> Absolutely.

999
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:08,719
Yeah, that goes with the sort of the two
items that Gene had certified for me if

1000
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:14,360
possible action.
>> So I can work with you directly. I think

1001
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:14,360
I could contact email,

1002
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:20,120
you know, you'll work with America on
that.

1003
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:29,199
» Um and and Jim, thank you for your
advocacy because we need that.

1004
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:32,639
» Yeah, no problem. And thank you for
reflectioning the schedule.

1005
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:36,880
» No problem.
>> I don't know if Clayton if I kept you

1006
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:40,000
sitting in Zoom for an hour, but
apologies for that.

1007
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:44,960
» We kept we kept Clayton entertained with
unaccepted streets.

1008
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:49,520
» I actually got a lot of work done, so
thanks.

1009
01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:55,840
» Worked out great.
>> Okay. Well, thank you.

1010
01:22:51,199 --> 01:23:01,840
» Yeah. Um, so we'll we'll move to uh
you'll move to Our

1011
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:03,920
next agenda item which is our last
deliberative item

1012
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:08,480
» must be me
>> which is the proposed FOY27 fleet

1013
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:12,159
purchases presentation.
>> Has it been a year already?

1014
01:23:11,199 --> 01:23:15,280
» Almost.
>> Yeah, almost a year.

1015
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:18,440
» I think it was last August.
>> I believe

1016
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:26,480
we'll move on to that next.
>> And we have Ashley Parker as well for

1017
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:30,400
the setting. And unfortunately, fleet
manager Nate G cannot be here tonight

1018
01:23:28,719 --> 01:23:34,120
because he has sort of personal
commitments as

1019
01:23:34,239 --> 01:23:40,080
» we'll be representing the fleet
committee uh which uh the fleet

1020
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:44,080
committee is here to request the
transportation energy utilities

1021
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:48,400
committee recommend the board of finance
and city council approve the proposed

1022
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:52,239
FY27
vehicle purchase replacement

1023
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:57,840
recommendations and list the vehicle
side optional.

1024
01:23:54,400 --> 01:24:04,000
So as uh for the fleet policy, our fleet
manager Dave Hammond, myself met with

1025
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:07,920
both uh representatives from both
general fun departments and revenue

1026
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:14,480
special revenue departments to come up
with a recommended uh list for FY27.

1027
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:21,360
Out of those meetings, he identified 15
vehicles were total for FY27.

1028
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:27,920
13 of those being general fund vehicles
or equipment that are also in urgent

1029
01:24:24,639 --> 01:24:35,040
need of replacement. Uh the other two
remaining are water resources

1030
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:38,800
of revenue. Um
available funds for the general fund

1031
01:24:36,719 --> 01:24:44,080
purchases
will be uh funded by the general

1032
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:49,040
obligation bond series 2025A. There's a
little over a million dollars left in

1033
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:56,239
there from previous purchases that can
be used. And of those four funds that

1034
01:24:52,080 --> 01:25:04,080
mentions in the vehicle purchase list,
there will be four uh large capital

1035
01:25:00,239 --> 01:25:09,520
vehicles purchased through the GO bond
and then the remainder of the general

1036
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:16,239
fund vehicle purchased using $750,000
that was allotted by administration.

1037
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:20,719
uh revenue purchases will be using their
own revenue streams to make those

1038
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:26,760
purchases.
Total purchase amount is not to exceed

1039
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,760
1,974,788.

1040
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:35,679
You can see the list of vehicles to
purchase. We could run through them, but

1041
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:43,199
they are in the memo. I'm sure
you have a look at those. Um

1042
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:49,040
and we still have a rather large uh
deferred list of vehicles or like 93

1043
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:54,639
vehicles which makes up about 30% of the
general fund fleet. So that does not

1044
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:59,120
include BE vehicles or
uh water resources

1045
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:03,679
just general fund vehicles with a total
amount a little over 6 and a half

1046
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:11,199
million. Now not all those deferred
vehicles are in need of replacement.

1047
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:16,320
Some are assets that are um can be
deferred due to limited use or limited

1048
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:22,239
wear to them and are not expensive to
maintain. So we have you know there's

1049
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:25,920
trailers, we have a top cell screen.
We've had for years that would be

1050
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:31,120
replaced but because of the amount of
use it gets and the amount of

1051
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:36,880
maintenance that it requires is not on
make to the top of that list.

1052
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:41,679
the age of our fleet has a lot to do
with the deferred vehicles list and how

1053
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:46,159
it impacts our fleet maintenance team
and their ability to properly maintain

1054
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:49,760
the fleet. So, we've been moving from
more of a preventative maintenance

1055
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:54,159
program to more of a responsive
maintenance program due to the aid of

1056
01:26:52,159 --> 01:26:59,600
the fleet and the amount of repairs that
it needs.

1057
01:26:56,000 --> 01:27:04,159
also the size of the fleet compared to
the size of our fleet technician team

1058
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:10,639
which we are down a few fleet
technicians right now. So it's making it

1059
01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:16,400
uh as I said more of a responsive
playing catch up. So due to that, we've

1060
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:22,320
been outsourcing a lot of our larger
repairs

1061
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:27,840
to local vendors, which has increased
our contractual vehicle repair line,

1062
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:32,520
which we had to amend in FY26
by about almost $76,000.

1063
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:39,040
But we do have a new fleet funding
strategy, as I mentioned in the memo,

1064
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:44,239
antennal service fund, which will
hopefully be implemented in the next

1065
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:49,199
year too. that allow general fund
departments to set aside money within

1066
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:54,159
their budget to pay for their individual
departments fleet purchases.

1067
01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:57,320
That's something that we're working on
the administration.

1068
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:07,760
And then EV purchases this year. We
don't out of those 15 vehicles, a lot of

1069
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:13,120
them are large
block trucks, tandoms, one a trailer

1070
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:21,199
that there's not an EV option for. We
did have five uh police cruisers that

1071
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:26,400
were purchasing that are hybrids. Um, of
the vehicles on the list, when we met

1072
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:31,040
with Burlington Electric to review
possible EV options,

1073
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:38,560
the only
option was the walkbehind mower,

1074
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:45,120
which we dealt with the one parks and
recreation cemetery. We had one on site.

1075
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:53,760
Their crews took it, mowed all over the
the uh cemeteries. used it out in other

1076
01:28:48,639 --> 01:28:58,639
areas, other parks. Um, it just the way
that mower works and as it states in

1077
01:28:56,639 --> 01:29:03,520
supporting memo that the parks
department,

1078
01:29:00,239 --> 01:29:06,679
it's just not conducive to the lay of
the cemetery,

1079
01:29:06,719 --> 01:29:13,600
especially with a lot of the ledge
slopes that are there.

1080
01:29:11,199 --> 01:29:18,880
Previous years I demoed one myself there
and found it difficult and unsafe on

1081
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:24,080
those steep slopes because it's not
controlled like a traditional more with

1082
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:29,520
belt drives.
So we are not pursuing that as an

1083
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:34,760
electric vehicle where there are no
electric vehicle purchases here just by

1084
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,760
hybrid.

1085
01:29:36,719 --> 01:29:44,960
Um,
Ashley, do you have anything to add?

1086
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:50,000
» Um, no. I think I just wanted to
highlight again the um general fund. I

1087
01:29:48,719 --> 01:29:54,800
don't want to say earmark, but
contribution that was approved as part

1088
01:29:51,600 --> 01:30:00,480
of the budget this year to support um
the cash purchase of that long list of

1089
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:06,480
general fund vehicles that Lee was was
mentioning, almost $750,000. and that it

1090
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:13,440
is part of the attempt to work towards
that internal service fund where we um

1091
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:17,679
more formally set aside money to make
sure we have money to purchase uh

1092
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:22,719
vehicles every year. So, I just wanted
to to call that out in addition to the

1093
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:25,719
bond dollars that um are also supporting
purchases.

1094
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:36,440
Um, committee members
on the uh the fleet just

1095
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:44,400
there.
Becca, do you have anything?

1096
01:30:42,719 --> 01:30:49,040
» I don't have anything. This all looks
good to me. Thank you. It's nice to see

1097
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:56,480
the progress being made on the financing
side certainly too. So, thank you.

1098
01:30:54,080 --> 01:31:02,719
» I guess I had a question. So just to
understand the mo the so parks one of

1099
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,840
the fleet purchases is a is a walkbehind
mower

1100
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,080
» correct
>> and is it for parks?

1101
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:12,400
» Yes.
>> Okay. So it was a clear about

1102
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:18,159
» um and so and they demoed one an
electric model that that wasn't suitable

1103
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:24,719
for what they needed and so that's why
we're not pursuing that. the other

1104
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:28,560
electric vehicles um the other fleet
purchases aren't eligible for because

1105
01:31:26,719 --> 01:31:33,199
there there aren't electric
>> options for them except for like the

1106
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:36,600
police cruisers where they're hybrids.
>> Correct.

1107
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,600
» Okay.

1108
01:31:37,199 --> 01:31:40,880
» Um I'm just anticipating
>> Yeah.

1109
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:45,120
» other questions that may come up like
they have in prior years um as this

1110
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:48,560
groups beyond the committee and off to
the council.

1111
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:53,040
» Yeah. And we did discuss with Burlington
Electric about the

1112
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:59,600
um ship command vehicle because
originally we were going to go with an

1113
01:31:55,040 --> 01:32:05,440
F150 light or something similar to that,
but because of the weight that they

1114
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:12,000
carry the gear, it exceeded the capacity
of the pickup. So then we looked at

1115
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:17,840
maybe the the Chevy Silverado, a heavier
duty version, but based on again

1116
01:32:16,239 --> 01:32:22,800
There's a difference between carrying
capacity and towing capacity. And again,

1117
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:27,600
with the size of the batteries that are
on the vehicle and the additional weight

1118
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:34,159
that they would add in gear, it exceeded
what they could use it for. So,

1119
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:37,679
» well, uh, thank you for this. Um, is 15.
I mean, I've seen a few of these come

1120
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:42,000
through since I've been on the council.
>> Yeah, I mean on this on this on the It's

1121
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:46,400
even below last year, but I think was
maybe 17.

1122
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:50,159
» Yeah. So I mean there's been years where
20,

1123
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:54,320
» right? So it's bad, you know.
>> So I mean it's important not to lose

1124
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:58,960
sight of the fact that there is that
deferred list that's becoming more some

1125
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,600
of which are becoming more and more
critical.

1126
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:07,280
» Correct. And and our fleet software has
a scoring system that rates vehicles in

1127
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:12,080
urgent need. So these 13 that are in the
general fund are urgent need vehicles

1128
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:17,280
from the department.
Well, thank you for bringing this

1129
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:22,159
forward. Um, I know that you would like
uh the toque to

1130
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:26,480
» make a motion on this and take take
action to move it to the full council.

1131
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:31,280
So, I don't know if one of the committee
members would

1132
01:33:28,639 --> 01:33:37,679
make a motion. There's one in the memo.
Uh

1133
01:33:33,679 --> 01:33:42,880
uh so I would move to approve and
recommend the board of finance and city

1134
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:46,800
council approve the proposed whites 17
fleet purchasing list as detailed in

1135
01:33:44,719 --> 01:33:50,719
attachment a vehicle replacement list
and authorize the director of the

1136
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:55,120
department of public works who purchased
the vehicles listed therein for a total

1137
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:59,480
authorized expenditure in an amount not
to exceed 1,974,788.

1138
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:06,719
And
I and I would move to approve and

1139
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:11,520
recommend that the board of finance and
city council authorize the director of

1140
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:16,880
the department public works or designate
to dispose of the FY27 replaced vehicles

1141
01:34:15,199 --> 01:34:21,360
equipment through any of the following
means as they shall in their responsible

1142
01:34:19,679 --> 01:34:25,360
judgment determined to be in the city's
best interest and to take such further

1143
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:31,280
actions and execute such further
instruments approved as to form by the

1144
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:35,920
city the attorney as may be necessary or
convenient to affectuate the

1145
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:40,719
transactions contemplated hereby auction
the vehicle/equipment through any of the

1146
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:45,840
various online public auctions by trade
in where vehicle equipment is being

1147
01:34:42,639 --> 01:34:50,000
purchased or if the vehicle is is of no
value to the vendor fleet maintenance

1148
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:56,719
will have the vehicle equipment hauled
away for scrap at the current market

1149
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:59,920
price thanks for that very motion is
there a second

1150
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:04,400
» wow Oh, I'm really glad I didn't
volunteer to read that. Thanks, Eric.

1151
01:35:02,719 --> 01:35:09,440
Second. Yes.
>> Um, any further discussion?

1152
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:14,000
I see none. All those in favor of the
motion while motion is read by indicate

1153
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:15,600
by saying I.
>> I.

1154
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:18,320
» I.
>> Um, so there you have it.

1155
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:19,520
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

1156
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:24,679
» Thank you.
>> Thank you all.

1157
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:24,679
» Thank you, Ashley.

1158
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:31,679
Um and that brings us to the end of our
deliberative agenda. Next we have a

1159
01:35:30,239 --> 01:35:37,679
director's report.
>> Yeah. Given the hour, uh I defer.

1160
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:43,040
» Yeah. Councelor items. Any councilors
have items to

1161
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:48,960
for the committee?
You're not seeing any. Um so that moves

1162
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:55,840
us to our last item which is SK setting.
Our next meeting is currently scheduled

1163
01:35:51,679 --> 01:36:01,800
for the 22nd uh of September at 5:30
p.m. Is that work for everybody still?

1164
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,800
And is this room available?

1165
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:08,800
» Is everybody okay with that as a meeting
date? Uh assuming the press conference

1166
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:13,520
is not 5:30.
>> Yeah, they did. It was like 11 or 4.

1167
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:18,080
» Yeah.
>> And that will work for me. I got it.

1168
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:23,280
» Um
>> Yep. That works for me.

1169
01:36:19,679 --> 01:36:27,920
» Okay. So, let's let's let's
say we're going to do that and I will

1170
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:34,080
let team know
and the item is so further business and

1171
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:37,040
that's the injunction. I'll journ at
7:09.

1172
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:41,159
Thank you everybody.
>> Thank you. Have a good night.

1173
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:10,239
Come

1174
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:21,960
on. Come on.