1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,560 done a little Thank you. [laughter] Uh done an agenda 2 00:00:05,239 --> 00:00:11,759 [clears throat] for myself here. The first order of business is to um uh 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:18,880 review and approve the minutes from the last meeting. Um and is somebody 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:23,920 would somebody make a motion uh to approve them? 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:28,640 » I will move to approve them. >> Okay. 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:34,559 » Moves it. And as was there a second? Yeah, Jordan will second. 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:38,960 » Okay, great. Is there any discussion? >> They looked good. 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,280 » Good. Uh, all in favor, please say I or raise your hand or do something. 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:45,040 » I >> I 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:51,520 » I >> So, they're approved. Uh, all opposed? 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:01:00,160 Oh. Uh, so the minutes are approved. My cat is thundering around in the 12 00:00:53,520 --> 00:01:02,280 background, so jumpy. That's why. Um um [clears throat] 13 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:12,799 and the other thing we need to do is to uh swear in uh I guess it's John McCulla 14 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:16,720 who is going to give testimony. So I don't have the oath in front of me. 15 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:22,159 Barbara, do you happen to have it? Would you be able to read it out? 16 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:25,600 » I don't. Uh but if you want to just move ahead with the next item, I'll go ahead 17 00:01:23,759 --> 00:01:29,360 and see if I can find one. >> Okay, great. Um, and I think that's the 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,040 only oath that we need to do this morning. Uh, this afternoon we're going 19 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,320 to talk about whether we all want to do an oath each time. And that's a 20 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:42,560 different subject, but I don't think we're required to. Um, the, uh, the 21 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:49,360 application that we're considering is the application of um, Charlotte uh, and 22 00:01:46,479 --> 00:01:56,560 Scott Bassage and it's parcel ID number 360105. 23 00:01:52,159 --> 00:02:03,719 Um, and the request is for uh penalties and fees uh from dating from 2025 in the 24 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,719 amount of $434.34. 25 00:02:03,759 --> 00:02:14,000 So the next item on the agenda is to inquire um whether anybody on the board 26 00:02:10,399 --> 00:02:21,360 of tax abatement um has had exarty communication about this application. 27 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:26,080 Um, and I'm assuming that the listers probably have cuz that's sort of in the 28 00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:30,720 nature of this particular request. So, um, don't consider that, uh, to be 29 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:37,840 anything other than to say it happened. Um, and also to inquire whether anybody 30 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:43,680 has a conflict of interest, um, in the proceeding. So, uh, please speak up if 31 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:47,040 you feel you did do. >> Janet, I have the oath. If you would 32 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,800 like for me to read it on your behalf, >> that'd be great. Um, and John, you're 33 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:56,080 there. I don't see you, but I assume you're there in the room. 34 00:02:54,239 --> 00:02:57,440 » Well, John is here. >> Okay. 35 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:02,319 » Yeah. >> Okay. So, the oath is under the pains 36 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,400 and penalties of perjury, do you solemnly swear that the evidence you 37 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,640 give and the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but 38 00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:16,480 the truth? >> Yes. 39 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:18,522 » Okay. Um, >> yes. [laughter] 40 00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:26,519 So >> didn't feel like the page of perjury 41 00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:26,519 today. 42 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:35,200 » You're on my on my Zoom anyway. You're you're you sound very drifty. So I don't 43 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:40,640 know if you do on others. Um so John, I think you're the um one witness that we 44 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:44,319 have on this application and I assume everybody has the application in front 45 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:51,217 of them or at least they've had a chance to review it. So, um John, if you could 46 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:54,560 uh give us the background and um [clears throat] uh anything that you 47 00:03:53,040 --> 00:04:02,159 feel that we need to know in order to take action. 48 00:03:56,799 --> 00:04:07,840 » Okay. Um, in uh fall of 20124, a property tax transfer report shows a 49 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:14,480 seller and buyer um for a piece of property came into the office and it 50 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:25,280 showed that the transfer transfer was Scott and the transferee was John Hannah 51 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:32,080 passage with a Seattle address. Um there was no indication at the train at the on 52 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:39,360 the top of the PTTR that this was a life estate, but in fact it was with a life 53 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:45,360 estate. The the main owner is still in this case the person listed as a seller. 54 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:48,960 Um so the name should not have been changed. 55 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:54,880 The address should not have been changed, but it was. The tax bill went 56 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,639 wrong address and 57 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:04,800 wasn't paid. >> And then kind of came as a surprise when 58 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:09,440 when it was discovered delinquent and here we are, 59 00:05:07,919 --> 00:05:14,960 » right? Um, and so this is under the uh the pro 60 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:20,479 the the uh provision [clears throat] that allows for an an an adjustment or 61 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:24,479 an abatement rather if it's a mistake of the listister. Um, and that's the 62 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:30,560 situation that uh [clears throat] that we're being asked to do the abatement on 63 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:35,560 at the moment. Um, so it are there any uh questions of John that anyone has? 64 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:46,000 So the the uh normal course is but it's not required is that we go into 65 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:50,960 deliberative session uh to make a decision. We're not required to do it. 66 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:56,400 Um and it's a little awkward. One half of us are not there. The other half are 67 00:05:54,160 --> 00:06:03,600 there but we can do it if you want to. Um or we can just uh entertain a motion 68 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:07,520 if somebody uh has a motion to make. I I'd like to make a motion that we go 69 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:10,319 into deliberative session. This is Barbara. 70 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:16,479 » Okay. All right. Um and I I assume that you 71 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:20,080 know how to do this because it happens in other occasions. Is that right? I 72 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,720 don't know how to do it. >> I think we just need a second and then a 73 00:06:21,919 --> 00:06:26,960 vote. >> Well, but the the I'm talking about the 74 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,080 mechanics of doing it. >> We'll just stop recording. I think 75 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:33,360 that's the only difference. I think we stopped 76 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:36,880 » and if anyone tries to come in, we tell them they need to wait a moment. 77 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:42,080 » Okay, [clears throat] that sounds fine. Um, so, uh, the mot the motion's been 78 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,759 made to go into deliberate session. Is there a second? 79 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,880 » I'll I'll second. >> Okay. Uh, all those in favor, please say 80 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,654 I. >> I. I. 81 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:58,880 » And those. [clears throat] 82 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:05,520 » Okay. So uh whatever the if you want to and uh so we're now in open session 83 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:10,960 although it does feel just like the deliberative session but uh but there 84 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:16,560 you go. Um so I'd like to see if somebody would make a motion to uh uh 85 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:22,000 get us get us moving in terms of making a decision. 86 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:27,759 Uh I would like to uh make a motion to uh approve the uh abatement of late fees 87 00:07:27,039 --> 00:07:31,440 um >> and penalty 88 00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:38,400 » and and penalty uh associate associated with uh Scott passage and Charlotte 89 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:43,919 Hannah's uh request to do so. Um uh and the stated reason uh was that uh uh 90 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:50,080 there was an error uh on the part of the listers and I think that that seems to 91 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:55,080 be represented in this case. Uh that uh abatement amount is $434.34. 92 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:01,440 » Okay. Uh so that's a motion. Is there a second to that? 93 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:06,720 » Second. >> Okay. Uh, it's been moved and seconded 94 00:08:03,599 --> 00:08:13,400 that we uh approve the application for abatement of the penalties and interest 95 00:08:09,599 --> 00:08:13,400 in the amount of $434.34 96 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:23,280 partial ID 360105. Um, so is there any discussion before we 97 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:27,599 vote? Um, [clears throat] 98 00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:31,840 see any discussion? Uh, could I have a show of hands of all I'm not sure. Do we 99 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:37,200 have to do this with a roll call? We don't. Do we? I don't think we do. Show 100 00:08:34,959 --> 00:08:41,000 of hands. Um, everyone, all in favor, please raise your hand. 101 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,760 » And those opposed. 102 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:56,240 Okay. Uh, so the motion has passed. Um, and I think that's it. Uh we did have a 103 00:08:54,320 --> 00:09:01,440 discussion about whether we were going to uh at Tegan if you want if you think 104 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:05,760 this is a good time to have a discussion about whether we do an oath at each 105 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:10,800 meeting we can do that now or we can wait till some non snowstorm time when 106 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:18,320 we're all together which might might be a better discussion but it's up to you. 107 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:21,440 Um I I think it's good to at least start the discussion and then if there's a lot 108 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:27,519 we want to talk about maybe we could save it for when we're all in the same 109 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:31,600 room. Um Janet brought up the idea that perhaps that the oath that we have 110 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:35,600 signed in the past and I have a bunch of them in here is not required and I 111 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,279 checked in with the LCT and while a lot of clerks and towns do have all the 112 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:44,240 board members sign an oath at the beginning of every meeting not everyone 113 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:48,080 does and it's not required. Um, I did ask Charlotte if she had any feedback on 114 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:53,279 this point since she's not here tonight. And she said that she thinks of it kind 115 00:09:50,959 --> 00:09:56,240 of like there was another kind of meeting she used to attend where they 116 00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:02,000 did a prayer in the beginning. And while she's not a big prayer person, it set a 117 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:07,040 tone of somnity and gravity, I suppose, to the 118 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:11,760 situation and helped helped center people before a meeting. And so she 119 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:17,360 aired on the side of in favor of an oath. Um, do we want to talk about it 120 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:22,399 today? >> Um, this is Barbara. 121 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,560 It's not that hard. It doesn't take but just a minute and I think it sets the 122 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:31,440 tone as well. I would I would vote in favor of taking an oath each time. 123 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:36,240 » So, the the concern that I had that I raised with Tegan, I'll I'll share with 124 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:39,760 everyone. It um we had a we had a big some very sensitive about the idea of 125 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:44,000 oaths. we had a big dust up in the legislature about whether or not we'd 126 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:48,399 done our oaths properly. Um, and it raised all not a deliberative body, but 127 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:52,800 it raised all kinds of questions about whether the actions we took were legal 128 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:59,360 and constitutional and so on. So, it's a serious thing. Um, and the concern I 129 00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:05,040 have is that if we start doing it and because of a different town clerk or a 130 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:10,800 different, you know, chair or different whatever, if it's not in our procedures, 131 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:17,920 um, and we don't do it at a given time, that that may raise issues about the 132 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:22,640 validity of what we're doing. So I um if we require it, my feeling is that we 133 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:28,959 should put it in the rules of procedure so that it will be there for whoever 134 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:32,959 takes over in 10 years from now when hopefully most of us won't be here. I 135 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:38,560 won't be here [laughter] for sure. Um so that so that's just my 136 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:45,200 thought. It's a serious thing. It's not it's it's I agree that it lends a a a 137 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:51,279 feeling of gravity, but that's because it actually has gravity to it. Um, so I 138 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:56,079 want to be cautious about it. I want to be sure that if we say we're going to do 139 00:11:53,040 --> 00:12:02,839 it that we actually really do it. Anyway, those are those are my thoughts 140 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:02,839 about it. Anyone else want to jump in? 141 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:11,279 » Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Don. Um, 142 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:15,760 I think I've been in this role like I don't know maybe 12 years or something. 143 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:21,120 And I remember Denise I thought used to have us um actually do the oath like 144 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:25,760 this but only at the very start of each um time that we were elected. Um I 145 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:29,360 thought that was a nice balance of um like not just signing a piece of paper 146 00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:35,360 so like actually taking an oath but not having to do it every time that we um 147 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:38,399 convene. So, I I honestly don't have strong feelings on this one. I 148 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:43,600 appreciate your point, Janet, about it about us. What happens if we forget to 149 00:12:40,079 --> 00:12:49,800 or don't do it, but that's what I would >> that's what I would uh think throw. 150 00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:49,800 » We did do an oath. 151 00:12:52,800 --> 00:13:00,399 Uh >> oh, Jennering 152 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:05,600 that we're doing. Um, and I So, so we did kind of do what you're talking 153 00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:10,240 about. I freeze up probably. Uh, anyone else want to jump in? 154 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:14,800 » Janet, you froze up. Do you mind saying that again? 155 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:20,160 » I just said we did do an oath um in in the LA at the last time we met um for 156 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:24,720 for the office when we we took office. So, it was along the lines of what Dylan 157 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:28,160 was describing. Anyone 158 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:33,200 else? >> I think it's um 159 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:38,560 uh with some of these boards that have pretty official duties um 160 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:43,680 uh and the likelihood that there's going to be turnover amongst the board between 161 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:51,200 meetings uh because of just kind of the general makeup. I uh I I do see value 162 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:58,000 probably in in having uh an an oath being, you know, read or acknowledged at 163 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:01,839 the beginning of of of hearings. Um and and I do agree with you, Janet, that if 164 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:07,360 we're going to make that commitment that it should be represented 165 00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:13,120 uh in in the procedure so that we're consistent about its verbiage and 166 00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:19,279 everything else. Um, so I guess I would propose m maybe uh asking somebody to 167 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:25,680 prepare some language to be adopted in the procedures that we can vote on at 168 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:32,639 our next convening. Um uh and then I guess the only other uh question there 169 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:37,199 uh about kind of validity uh would be um would it be adequate for you know 170 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:45,920 something like that to be read and everybody to kind of in unison say say I 171 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:50,720 um you know does that does that you know is that sufficient um to be to be valid. 172 00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:54,639 So, >> you [clears throat] know, yeah, the oath 173 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,399 that we took as legislators, we all stood there and raised 174 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:02,079 » Yeah. >> a right hand, but that was considered 175 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:08,720 not the not valid. The the oath that was valid was the one we signed. Um, had to 176 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,680 sign one. And so the the the with the hand up was ceremonial and it looked 177 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,480 like >> except [clears throat] it turned out to 178 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:21,279 be your left hand if you were on >> Zoom. Mhm. 179 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,839 » Well, you and you all sign the or at least the judge of the piece all sign an 180 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:27,760 oath >> um when they are elected and the select 181 00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:31,600 board like we all sign various oaths when we are elected that are not the 182 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,279 same oath as we've been using for abatement hearings. Um the 183 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:40,240 [clears throat] oath in question by the way is I do solemnly swear or affirm 184 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:44,000 that I will well and truly hear and determine all matters at issue relating 185 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:48,160 to the abatement of taxes and other levies submitted for my decision. So 186 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:51,880 help me God or under the pains and penalties of perjury. 187 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:58,959 » So can we make in the procedure the requirement that I guess when when we 188 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:03,519 have a new member of the board whatever is going to trigger that they're going 189 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:07,839 to sign that and then maybe it's just a a reading um as like an acknowledgement 190 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:12,800 at the beginning of a hearing just as a reminder everybody who's serving in this 191 00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:17,199 role has signed an oath that expresses as much. So then then we have the 192 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:22,480 signatures that are that are captured when a new member is installed and uh 193 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:25,839 and then we have kind of more ceremonial acknowledgement um at the beginning of 194 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:32,079 the meeting. >> I think that's a sort of a nice way to 195 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,839 balance the various concerns. Um >> yes. 196 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:38,720 » Yeah. [snorts] >> So Tegan, this is Barbara. For the 197 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:42,240 purpose of your minutes, uh John was sworn in. 198 00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:47,199 » Yes. But that was not this the oath that I found in the BOA handbook. So just so 199 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:52,160 you know, that's not the oath that John took, but he did swear in this evening 200 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:54,560 » as a witness. >> Thank you. 201 00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:59,920 » As a witness. As a witness. >> Sorry, I was delayed. Um there were no 202 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,040 additional candidates who came forward, but I was 203 00:17:01,839 --> 00:17:07,839 delayed and I missed the beginning of the meeting. Um, so 204 00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:11,520 what I'm hearing at this point, and we haven't made a motion, I don't need to 205 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:16,959 know that we need to do that this time, but that you would like me to bring back 206 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:22,559 the rules of procedure with an inclusion of 207 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:28,000 reciting the hearing at the start of every hearing. reciting the oath at the 208 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:32,559 start of every hearing and then after we are all elected the first the first 209 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:37,600 meeting after we have all been reelected or elected that we would all sign it at 210 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:42,080 that particular meeting. Is that what people are thinking? 211 00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:46,880 » I thought what Jordan said was to um state that we had all taken the oath but 212 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:54,640 not to take it at each meeting. But perhaps I misunderstood Jordan. 213 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:57,600 » It it was more a statement than Then 214 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:02,000 » yeah, I mean that's kind of semantics. So what I had in mind was similar to 215 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,679 what you know Tan was saying that we that we just that we have an oath that 216 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:11,360 we all sign it when there's a when there's a you know point of installation 217 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:16,880 um that and you know that that is then being you know kept on file and then at 218 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:25,200 the beginning of a hearing uh the oath is read and you just have a ver 219 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:28,559 verbal reminder that everybody present has signed 220 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:33,120 » was already done it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just read one time as a reminder, 221 00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:38,559 not read by everyone individually. >> Yeah, that's that's what I understood. 222 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:42,480 That that makes sense. Um yeah, I mean the the advantage of that is if for some 223 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:47,600 reason somebody forgets to do it, it's not going to make a difference and uh in 224 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:53,200 terms of the of the validity of what we do. So [clears throat] 225 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,000 » sounds good. Uh are people in agreement that that's this is a good way to 226 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,760 proceed? We don't need to vote on it because we'll vote when we see the 227 00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:02,880 language. But um >> people good with us. 228 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:08,559 » Agree. >> Good good discussion. Uh any other 229 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:13,120 business that we uh need to deal with before some of us move off 230 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,960 here? >> Uh I don't think so. 231 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:24,799 » Okay. Uh so I'm going to say that we're we are adjourned. Um 232 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:29,919 good to see everybody. Uh, oh, wait a minute. I may need to Somebody needs to 233 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:33,679 write up the decision. Um, and I think Tegan and I have usually worked on that. 234 00:19:31,919 --> 00:19:40,559 We'll circulate it, but I don't think it'll be a complicated um letter. So, 235 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:47,000 » so we'll do that. >> Okay, great. Thanks. Bye, everybody. 236 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,000 » Thanks.