Is Tim coming? >> I believe so.
» There he is. Are you going to have a pen by any
chance? >> I do not.
» Well, I got it. I found it. So excited.
» You found something really good? >> Yeah, look at that thing.
» Oh, the blue one? >> Yeah.
My kids keep stealing my pens, so I got a 20 pack. Still have three left
Can I have Can I have two of them? >> Did you all buy them at the store?
» No. >> Or you just went to the
» I went to >> the county
» Amazon Basics. They get delivered with The county's got a supply
cabinet. >> You can go.
» I may need some of that sleep aid stuff.
» I remember a retiree telling me once for the first time in my life I had a gold
side. And
» Yeah. >> You know, I just used to I'm being free.
It's not free. >> had the odd stuff. It it it was like I
was asking somebody I didn't know. I was
like, "Ask Denise how much talk to her and say my office has six
reams of paper and all our ribbons I was like, "This is awesome."
» Yeah, governments are weird. >> Kleenex was not free. You can't get your
own. But the county provides Kleenex, so
We eliminated personal office trash cans, so we had to
go out to like a central place. >> They are?
» They did. >> Oh.
» Years ago. >> Oh.
» Jeez. Now, like so I went and bought my own.
» Mhm. >> I'm going to throw it here and then I'll
go down I'm not going to
one piece of paper.
» All right, gang's all here. It is up the hour. I'm Trustees to order. This is our
regular meeting of Wednesday, August 19th.
Item one is roll call and I will call the roll. Mr. Snowink is absent with
notice. Mr. Hermanet? >> Here.
» Mr. Bradshaw? >> Here.
» Harrison is here. Ms. Henry? >> Here.
» Mr. Zoller? >> Here.
» Mr. Robertson? >> Here.
» We have a quorum. Item two is pledge of allegiance and invocation. Please stand.
» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> We are thankful this evening for the
opportunity and honor of being here to represent our friends and neighbors. We
ask that you guide our work. Help us to do well.
Help us to do the will of those who sent us here and do your will. We give thanks
for those who protect us while we're here, those in the police and fire and
military. We ask that you give them your protection and comfort to their
families. We ask this all in your name. Amen.
Item three, consideration of the meeting agenda. Board members have received your
agenda and reviewed it and its contents. Are there any additions, deletions,
clarifications?
Seeing and hearing none. Item four or
» We need a motion. >> Motion.
» Support. >> Motion and support to approve. All in
favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed say no. Item four is public comment. This is an
opportunity to address the board for up to two minutes. Does anyone wish to do
so? >> Yes, ma'am.
» Welcome. Could you state your name and where you
reside? >> My name is Angela Reefer and I reside
off of 76th Street. Um
Do you need a specific address? Okay. >> sufficient. Thank you.
» I'm just bringing before the board, I know you've seen it um on Caledonia
Babble, the issue of the stop sign that I requested from uh
the road commission for a four-way stop, a roundabout, something to make that at
Cherry Valley and 76 safer for those of us that travel it.
Uh my husband owns a landscape company, Horner Warner, Klosterman's, there's
tons of them and they're trying to travel and go through that stop sign
with large equipment behind them. And it's limited sight distance. It's not
from brush, it's a hill on each side and people are flying down there. And there
have been accidents and the road commission
has denied and denied and says there has to be five injuries in a year's time for
us to even consider that and you're really telling me someone has to
get hurt before you consider it unsafe? So, I'm coming before the board to ask
for your help, your support. I will plan on going to their board meeting as
suggested as well. Um I don't know if I can go to next week's, but possibly the
next one. And I want it on the books that it's being requested, it's being
asked for to be taken seriously. Um before somebody gets hurt. And if
somebody does get hurt, then it's on the books. We've asked for it. So, who then
would be accountable? >> Great.
Couple things I would just encourage. One is there's both the county elected
board and then there's the appointed uh road commission board, so you could
probably make connections with both just to make sure everyone's hearing your
concerns. And uh one thing we can do is ask for an
updated traffic study. I know one of the reasons they gave for their denial or
lack of support was uh it doesn't have the traffic counts, so it's not just
accidents, which are obviously serious, but traffic counts. We can request
updated traffic counts. I'm not sure when the last time they counted.
Once things get back to normal, they probably wouldn't do it right now with
things being closed and >> Well,
the engineer that I've communicated with, I have all
that they said that they pulled it and there wasn't an accident there since
2022. An accident with injuries. And I have quoted multiple accidents. I live
right there. There was one a month ago. Airbags were deployed. They hauled off
the vehicle. There was one a month before that where it's all over
Caledonia babble and people are like that's a horrible place to try to cross
and so [clears throat] I tried to call Michigan State Police,
Kent County Sheriff. They all point me somewhere else to call to get these
numbers and I can't get them. I contacted Molenaar's office and they
gave me a couple places where I could go on the federal level to try to get some
support. I hope to not have to go to that point, but I now have numbers I can
at least try to call. Um, my voice isn't going to go away on this.
This affects I have my family, my son lives next door. I have friends all
around there, the farmers, all of us. We're concerned and so my voice isn't
going to go away just because I don't get the answers that I'm looking for.
» And again, just for clarity, we don't have jurisdiction or discretion. We can
help raise your voice and amplify it. Uh, but whether it's stop signs or speed
limits, which we often hear about, they are the deciding agency. So, we can work
with you, but we can't say you're right. >> that.
» Well, let's get her done. So, thanks. >> Thank you.
» Yep. Any other public comment? Hi, welcome.
» Thank you. My name is Susan DeNues, 7701 92nd
Street, Caledonia. During the June 15th Planning Commission
meeting, public comments included a request to
extend the data center moratorium for an additional year to study the
effects of data centers on the community.
The planning commission unanimously passed a motion to recommend a 3-month
moratorium from the October 17th date with additional 3-month increments as
needed. You the township board is then obligated
to take up the matter in a timely fashion.
I was hoping to find that 3-month extension on the agenda tonight.
The October deadline is fast approaching.
The planning commission continued their discussion of the data center proposal
Monday night. However, by their own admission, there
was still a great deal to discuss and research.
Obviously, a well-developed proposal is essential to the health of our community
and time is needed to accomplish the work. [clears throat]
The planning commissioners said it themselves that we must get this right.
A minimum of a 3-month extension to the moratorium is needed with additional
3-month increments as needed, too.
Thank you. >> Sure. Thank you.
Again, just quickly, one, I agree with you. We're following legal counsel's uh
uh advice as far as when we do that. And I would anticipate that it's likely we
will do that uh at our September meeting. So, uh
» I hope if you know, I hope so because um time's ticking
and um the October >> Yeah, I don't think you'll see a lapse.
Given the status of the work, I think it's justified and we can legally defend
it. Yeah, we've seen challenges to moratoriums already popping up in other
communities, or at least one. Like some had a moratorium and a
data center developer is now challenging it in the courts. So, we want to make
sure we're not vulnerable and that we can defend it. So.
» Well, I think it's easily defended because there's a lot of work to be
done. >> I agree.
I I agree. So, >> just uh let's work together and do it
responsibly and defensively, and I think we will get there.
All right. Thank you. All right. Other public comment?
Thank you. We will close public comment.
Item five, inquiry of conflict of interest. Board members having approved
tonight's agenda and reviewed its items, does anyone have an interest in any of
the listed items to declare?
Seeing none. Item six is approval of the consent
agenda. Admittedly, there are a number of items in here that I hope uh would
have broad board support, but any of them can be removed for further
discussion or clarification, or they can be
uh approved together. So, what is the will of the board? Anyone wishing to
remove any of these items? >> Motion to approve.
» Support. >> Moved by Zoller, supported by Hermanat,
that we approve the consent agenda. All in favor, please say I.
» I. >> Opposed, say no.
Just for the community that may be paying attention to at least some of the
backroom issues, there are two items on the consent agenda. One is uh
our township manager has left us, so there is going to be a replacement
process uh to determine how process will go about. And also an
interim reverting most of those duties back to
the supervisor, uh who doesn't necessarily want them, but it is those
duties are uh typically within the supervisor's
jurisdiction in the absence of a manager, so they're delegated to them.
So, in the absence uh many of those will be coming back to the
supervisor until we are able to make that replacement.
Uh With that, we do have a number of things
listed under reports of board officers, committees, and staff for your review.
Uh we also have correspondence from the Grand Valley Metro Council thanking us
for our >> I'm sorry. I need to interrupt you.
» You want a roll call vote? >> A roll call just because we have a
resolution on >> Okay, Mr. Hermanat, on the items listed
in the uh consent agenda, how do you vote?
» Yes. >> Mr. Bradshaw.
» Yes. >> Harrison is yes. Ms. Henry.
» Yes. >> Mr. Zoller.
» Yes. >> And Mr. Robertson.
» Aye. >> And that those items will all be
recorded as being approved unanimously by the board.
» Thank you.
» Uh item nine is a resolution I'm sorry, unfinished business. Item one is a
resolution to approve access and grant permit for use of township right-of-way.
This is a application by Surf Air Wireless LLC. Uh
we are bringing actually two of these uh
for tonight and we've had some assistance from the township engineer,
township staff, but I'm going to defer to our
resident engineer on the board, Mr. Bradshaw. I know you've monitored some
of the back and forth from the staff as far as what are the
we can't say no, but we that we can say yes with conditions. I think would be an
easy way of explaining this and one of those conditions we are reviewing is
what type of performance uh
requirements and uh protections as far as bonds we should require. Uh so, that
is uh part of our review. Mr. Bradshaw. >> Sure. So, there's two draft resolutions
in the packet. One is called bilateral and one is unilateral. I would recommend
that we Well, I guess this isn't an action recommendation,
just my personal review. Um there's one for just 5 years and that's the one that
I think we should go with. The other basically approves their
um ability to work in the right-of-way for 15 years and just knowing that this
company has had some challenges in other
locations in our area, I think uh the potential to see this every 5 years is a
good thing for checks and balances. Um
I also understand from the resolution and Metro Act sheet that
um
So, there's a difference. In my previous work, uh
I was the administrator of the right-of-way. We
are just giving them the ability to locate in the right-of-way, and then the
details of where that is going to go actually gets worked out in a additional
permitting process with the road commission. So, while I think these maps
are pretty terrible, I think that they meet the basic first step,
[clears throat] and I'm okay with approving them.
Um but, the road commission, once they get them, hopefully much better maps,
needs to take a closer look because there's lines all over the place that
are still not within rights-of-way and are all over our private property, but
it's the general intent is how it's described in the act of where they want
to put the lines, and then tighter plans will be available later. So.
For all of those reasons, I would make a motion that we
approve the unilateral permit for 5 years.
» And with a performance bond of 1.4 million dollars is recommended.
» Yes. >> All right.
In support, moved by Bradshaw, supported by Armanet, to approve the unilateral
permit for 5-year term with a 1.4 million dollar performance bond.
Question, and not to put Stephanie on the spot, but we do have Stephanie
Skidmore here who has been working with legal counsel. Are we able to recover
the cost of getting to this approval point? Do you
know? >> Um the application fee was $500.
» Got you. >> So, it will cover a portion of our
costs, but not all of our >> Okay.
Thank you for that. Okay, with that as an understanding, is
there any public comment on this issue of approving our right-of-way permit?
Seeing none, uh
all in favor? Or is it I will call Mr. Robertson.
» Um there are two resolutions. Do we have to
take the first resolution up and deny it, and then the second? Cuz we're only
Or are we just skipping? >> I think we're skipping it and the
motion was to approve the the unilateral.
» Thank you. >> Yes, correct.
» All right. So >> before us is the unilateral permit by
resolution to approve the right of way for 5-year term with a $1.4 million
bond. I will call the roll. Mr. Hermenet?
» Yes. >> Bradshaw?
» Yes. >> Harrison is yes. Henry?
» Yes. >> Zoller?
» Yes. >> Robertson?
» I. >> All right.
Thank you, board members. M10B, this is a resolution to approve access grant
permit township right of way. Oh, sorry. Those are two listed and we will just
skip over those. I think that's what Dick was asking. Now I understand. Thank
you. Uh 9C is an ordinance. This is under
second read, so final read. This is to amend the zoning ordinance of the
Charter Township of Caledonia regarding the keeping of pets and livestock and uh
various architectural standards. We did have a brief report from our planning
commission member at the last one. Do you want to add anything or remind us of
anything before we consider this? >> No, I if there's questions, I can do my
best to answer them, but >> Okay.
Again, this is this a ongoing and periodic update of ordinances as we see
the need and so this will make those changes and they will become
uh part of our standing ordinances upon approval. Is there any public comment?
Seeing none. Uh
I will call the roll. Mr. Hermenet? >> Yes.
» Bradshaw? >> Yes.
» Oh, actually I need a motion. >> Okay. Motion to approve. Second.
» Zoller will second. Zoller will second by Bradshaw. Mr. Hermenet, how do you
vote? >> Yes.
» Yes. >> Bradshaw, Harrison is yes. Miss Henry?
» Yes. >> Mr. Zoller?
» Yes. >> And Mr. Robertson?
» I. >> All All
10A is a motion to approve the renewal of the Guardian Insurance employee
dental, vision, life, and accidental death and dismemberment policies for the
plan year of October 1, 2026 through September 30th, 2027.
There's a memorandum explaining the cost of these, but this
is our employee um benefit package. Uh
it maintains our current providers, which uh and benefit levels and
contribution levels. There are some increases in the costs,
uh but staff uh are happy with the providers, so we are encouraging the
board to support uh the continued uh funding of these benefits through this
provider. Is there any questions?
Any discussion?
» Make a motion we approve. >> Moved by Henry. Is there support?
» I will support. >> Uh any any discussion?
Any public comment?
All in favor of renewal of Guardian employee dental, vision, life, and
accidental death and dismemberment, please say I.
» I. >> Any opposed, say no.
And that has been approved. Item 10B, this is a resolution to again
approve access and grant permit use for the township right-of-way. This is for
Peninsula Fiber Network, LLC. Uh
it's a unilateral permit and a performance bond has been recommended of
$850,000. Uh again, Mr. Bradshaw, anything
additional or different from the one as far as the provider, what's been
provided to us as far as mapping? Uh is this one ready for our
consideration and approval? >> Yes, in my opinion it is ready and these
maps are much more indicative of what I would call a good submittal. So, nice
job to their drawing department. >> All right.
» I will just point out that on the back of the resolution exhibit B, the bond
says not required. On this agreement.
» We removed that. >> We are requiring
a bond. >> Yes. We crossed the line uh
» It's on the very back page exhibit B. >> Okay.
Let's do this.
So that the record is clear. Um
I don't believe we had a motion. Remind me if we had one.
» I don't think we had a motion. >> Okay. I make a motion that we amend
uh the right-of-way permit uh exhibit B to
say a bond in the amount of $850,000 performance bond in the amount of
$850,000 will be required. >> Support.
» Okay. Moved by Harrison, supported by Bradshaw that we amend the permit to
require an $850,000 performance bond. Any discussion?
All in favor of the amendment, please say I.
» I. >> Any opposed, say no.
You now have before us the amended permit and we can discuss that. Is there
any thoughts, comments on that or a motion to approve?
» I make a motion we approve. >> Support.
» Moved by Hermanet, supported by Bradshaw that we approve the permit. Uh
All in favor, please say I. >> I.
» I. >> Any opposed, say no. And we have
approved the permit. >> That was a resolution. Do you have to do
a roll call? >> Mr. Bradshaw, how do you vote?
» Yes. >> Mr. Zoller, how do you vote?
» Yes. >> Mr. Ms. Henry?
» Yes. >> Mr. Robertson?
» Yes. >> Mr. Hermanet?
» Yes. >> All right. So I'll be last for once.
» You forgot yourself. >> Mr. Harrison votes yes. Thank you.
» [clears throat] >> Should just do it the right way.
All right. That concludes our business agenda items. Item 11 is public comment
extended. Anyone wishing to make public comment?
Again, welcome. State who you are, where you reside, and the
floor is yours. >> I'm still Susan the mean.
And I still live 7701 92nd Street, Caledonia.
Thank you. I'm here to request
» Could you set it even in front of you? I just want to make sure that it's
captured for those who might view these after the fact. I can hear you, but it'd
be nice. I know it's >> Is that better?
» Our audio keeps dropping out on some of our
» Thank you. I'm here to request the Township board to adopt a formal
resolution committing to a full and timely update
of the Township master plan with full community participation.
The current master plan relies on outdated data, including demographic
input dating back to 1999 estimates. The most recent community survey survey
for master planning was completed in 2006 with a small fraction of the
Caledonia residents consulted. The Township's 2024 master plan review
did not meet the spirit or purpose of the Michigan Planning Enabling Act
requirements as it focused almost exclusively on a small sub area of
Caledonia. While the master plan Wait for this.
While the master plan is being updated with full community participation
and the effects of data centers on our community are scrutinized, I also
propose a one-year moratorium on any data center applications or
constructions. Thank you. >> Thank you.
All right. Additional public comment?
All right. Welcome.
» All right. Deb Steketee on Valhalla Drive. Um couple of points that I'd like
to make uh today. Uh one is I think it's Dr. Robertson,
right? Which I appreciate the use of the
honorifics and he worked hard to have that uh Dr.
beside his name. Um
the website today did not include the full packet of the board materials. I
know in the past it's typically common and I don't know if this is a new
approach or was this an oversight or some other thing that was happening
there. So
» Go ahead. I'll respond. I actually will respond but use your time and then I'll
respond to >> All right.
I appreciate it. >> Yep.
» Um the final point that I want to talk about is uh
an important one I think in that there have been many citizens who have been
coming to the planning commission who are really engaged in the whole
discussion about data centers and and are taking a lot of time and effort to
review the the uh draft ordinance, give input that
we think are very uh valuable.
However, um the planning commission under the
direction of the current chair, um will not provide answers to our
questions um at those meetings and I think all of
us would be very willing to give up a portion of our public comment time,
what 5 minutes can do,
uh because some of our questions are very simple to answer. But there is a
reluctance um if I'll I'll use reluctance uh to not
answer those questions when they are asked. So what we'd like to have is this
board to convene a public workshop where citizens can come and get answers to
their questions if we can't do it at the meetings. That would be preferable. Um
but if not, let's host a public workshop. These are happening in other
communities where people can exchange ideas and comments. Um we think that
would be a very productive way to get the best result for our township in this
this matter. So, I'd like to encourage a discussion with the chair of the
planning commission. It doesn't have to be that way. When I was on the planning
commission for Caledonia, it was not that way. I can assure you. Um
but given that uh
absence, a public workshop would be great or maybe both. So, thank you.
» Sure. Thank you. And I can and will respond to both. Um
the board materials, we've temporarily suspended that. Uh
we have found the township's been targeted, I don't know specifically, but
it certainly have been targeted by what I would call fraudsters. Uh we've had
fraudulent checks written against uh our accounts because we believe they're
gaining this information from for lack of a better word, our
over-transparency. We're we're publishing things on our uh website,
full board packets, and they will go in and glean like who we do our banking
with and try to present themselves as representing the bank. We also uh
have found a recent application to the planning commission receive an email.
Apparently or the appearance was from the chair of the planning commission
saying, "We need an extra $3,500 in order for us to consider your
application. Here's the way you deposit it." And we
believe they gained that, the name of the applica- the applicant, the name of
the planning commission chair. So, we have suspended, not canceled, uh
publishing that information cuz it's sent to planning commissioners and board
members in one form. And so, we now need to probably create a secondary form, and
that will require additional staff time review and the process for doing that.
So, I think we'll return. In the meantime, anything you if you see that
looks interesting, what is it? With apologies for the intro, contact
staff and it will be emailed to you directly.
Uh >> Okay.
» We just can't have it out there. Whether it's AI or just more fraud, you
know, if it's available on the web, it's being
not used for good
» I understand >> neighbors. It's bad intent.
» Okay. And and I would just like to add that we are not the only jurisdiction
going through this. It's happening. >> That's unfortunate, but I appreciate you
know, the circumstances. >> And as far as the workshop, I support
it. It will happen if not at the And I will say, you know, I believe Monday was
the first time we all actually got to see a first take at even a draft
ordinance, which I admit is incomplete with what was presented, but
even in the expanse of what will be necessary. So, it'll be incremental,
evolving, ongoing. Uh so, in the community one, uh
will be engaged and I will commit to a formal at some point. Let's all come
together, but let's have something to talk about rather than just we hate them
and why do we I mean, we I want to talk the substance of it. Uh and we're I
think we're getting there with a discussion document and draft. Uh the
board also uh will have as you saw tonight, there's two readings of things,
so we have plenty of opportunities and we'll
formalize and focus those opportunities as well when it comes to data centers,
but it's ongoing and I would say every member of the community at any point, if
they have something they want share. I've had people reach out on the sound
issues, the heat sink issues. Uh I've had a number of
uh people suggest workshops and reports that I've uh
accessed that have been helpful to me as I prepare when we get our turn at it.
So, I think uh you don't have to wait to be invited.
You don't have to wait for a workshop. Uh it's ongoing. And then finally, know
that the community is engaged because every member of the planning commission
is a community member, every member of this board is a community member, and
they're a public meeting, so you're welcome to be there as well. Uh
I think you'll notice I'm not running the timer anymore.
» Mhm. >> Uh
» That's great. >> Uh
It's so I >> That's how it should be.
» if there was 400 people here, >> Understood.
» and if I felt people were coming here just because it's their hobby to yell at
us, that's different, but if I'm seeing constructive uh give and take,
I think uh it is constructive to to be more flexible and and a
» I think that's, you know, my experience on the planning commission, that's how
we approached it, and we had a better result as a result of it.
» Yeah. >> You know, the the down-to-the-second
approach that's being used um from
and I would say all the people that have come to the
planning commission where I have been in attendance have been providing really
valuable information, and I'll give you an example of the other night, which was
I brought um and I know you were at a meeting that I was at where a uh model
ordinance was um alluded to. I looked it up.
Four and a half pages of noise guidance in an ordinance.
And so I brought that. I presented it to the to the planning commission. I had
one question of the lawyer that was there, which I think is a great idea to
have that lawyer at the planning commission.
Um I asked him uh what kind of um
uh consultant or input he was getting for the development of the noise
ordinance that we were having. He would not answer the question. He
looked to the chair, and the chair said, "We don't answer
questions. It's not a public hearing." So,
you know, our taxpayers are paying for the attorney.
» Sure. >> It's reasonable to ask that kind of a
question. >> Yep.
» Um >> You've You've asked it and I'll try to
find you an answer. How's that? >> Terrific.
» Having said that, we could probably give you an answer but
not defend it in the sense that I'm not a sound expert. Uh so, it'd be nice to
know if we're using the right experts, right? I mean
» It's a >> Is decibels the right way or the full
spectrum? I know the same as you're asking but uh
whether it's stop signs and speed limits or uh sound from data centers, we do
defer to experts. So, you have It'd be nice to be able to reference who they
are and we'll get you that answer. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. Well, I do
appreciate the way that that these meetings are running in in terms of
being able to get input. >> I have one request to all of you as you
engage and try to, you know, this
brush 1,800 brush fires, which is the number of townships we have, was started
by the state legislature, in my opinion, when they removed sales and use tax from
data centers. So, one that
hyper you know, that made us target number one
across the nation. They did it as an economic development. We've said in
Caledonia that we don't give tax breaks. Well, I see no So, as a conservative I'm
getting on my soapbox and don't tie me but you know, it was going to be in my
board accounts but I would My request to you is to ask them
to repeal that that tax break for a number of reasons.
One, it has put 1,800 ill-equipped townships
in the targets of trying to hurry up and get ahead of
what something we weren't expecting literally a year ago. It put everything
else on hold, parks and trails and, you know, even budgets. Uh so, it's it's
frustrating to to look at Lansing and say, "Thanks for nothing." Uh and I
think they had good intentions. It was maybe the only
bipartisan thing that this legislature has done uh
and it wasn't good. Uh the outcome wasn't good cuz it really They people
and I guess in the end of from a conservative standpoint
you're picking one industry to give tax breaks to. The farmer pays
his taxes, the you know, the hardware store in Caledonia pays their tax and
you're giving them a tax break. And these are some of the businesses
that, you know, have more commas in their balance sheet than any other, you
know, business in the world and why they aren't paying their fair share
I don't think it's a good economic development strategy. So, that's my
soapbox, but it I do think it's a serious question. I do think we have an
opportunity. It's an election year.
Politicians' ears are open more in election years.
And tell both gubernatorial candidates lead with this. It's This is a real
issue that has thousands of citizens concerned.
And you can take you can throttle back some of the intensity. Give us the time
to do our work simply by eliminating the the tax
break that you just handed off. You know, and the numbers We have the
Citizens Research Council. I don't I don't know what But you were there as
well. The numbers are astounding that that
we're basically getting jammed, you know, that they're not contributing
towards the community. It's a big number what they are giving, but the relief
they're getting is indefensible in my opinion. So, they took that off some of
the intensity would go away. Frankly, some of the people who want to
build them, they go elsewhere. And so, uh
that And then the only other thing I would say from my work
even there one of the things Not all data centers are the same. I was
going to say not all data centers are bad and that's a debate that other
people can have on the internet, you know, ironically. Um
but we have a data center in Caledonia. >> We I'm sorry.
» We have a data center in Caledonia Township and it's been here for over a
decade with zero complaints and zero people sitting in Township Hall.
And and so, they can be built on a scale which can be accommodated. It's I
and I'm not advocating that we keep build all these tiny ones or your
community of tiny ones, but I want to make sure that we are thoughtful and
say, "Yeah, they can be built if they don't create the bad stuff that
we see on a large scale." So, that's where I hope to go that we don't take
this if it has a computer, you know, I'm sure
most of our the township has very small data center
in our server room, right? I mean, and then you just scale up. So,
» Yeah. It's
» That's where I'm at on the issue. This is dialogue. You know, there's no
timer. So, we'll continue to work on it. >> Yeah. All right. Well, we we really
appreciate it because as I conveyed yesterday, it's it's been very
discouraging for those of us who are coming with good intentions. And um
the control issue is a problem. And so, um but we're going to stick with it.
We've We do our homework. Um we have all spent many hours in many
different ways to get good information in a spirit of helping
us as a community have the outcome that we need to protect our
our way of life here. >> I'll make one observation here and then
I'd like to talk to you after meeting for a a different one. Uh
I think this issue went from you know, non-existent to white-hot and torch and
pitchfork, you know, mentality that it created a bit of
defensiveness when people are being yelled at. So, if
we can turn down the volume, turn down the
heat. I'm not saying you, but the the issue
understandably is intense. And when you're a citizen who's just You
didn't know when you signed up that you're going to have your friends and
neighbors yelling at you. It can create tension. It can create
defensiveness. And I'm trying here to
ease that. All right?
» Sure. >> So.
» All right. Thank you so much. That's in that gift you just
showed that additional moratorium
is vitally needed. >> Additional listening is needed.
» To be able to have the conversation >> I agree with you.
I agree with you. I I'll say it the seventh different way. I agree with you.
It's likely to happen, but it would be irresponsible for me to promise it in
advance of the case being made because we'd be legally vulnerable.
Can you hear what I'm saying?
» Here's >> Okay. Okay. I mean
» Here's the issue because that particular case is a good one to look at
and why we have frustrations sometimes because our recommendation was passed
by the planning commission unanimously. >> Yep.
» It has to
to come to the board. >> Yep.
» It wasn't come to the board after we talked to the
attorney. It was to come to the board. And the board could have
that recommendation as a procedural manner.
And I don't know if Robert's Rules talks to it.
Could have come to you. You could have tabled it and say, "We need to look at
what the attorney has to say on it." >> But look at the level of
misunderstanding there are with what I'm trying to say. If it came to the board
and we said, "No, not now." Because
attorneys tell the citizens, "Look at you. You're not good listeners."
I
We will pass moratoriums as long as we need to do work.
We need to do work. so I think you can expect extensions to moratorium. To do
it just to give time to do work, you put in the cart before the horse. We said,
"Let's do it for a year. Maybe we need a year, maybe we don't." We've been told
that that is makes you vulnerable to a challenge.
And once it it's knocked down, the barn door is open and they can come
in. So,
» But, then the average we got 3-month possible extension.
» If there's ever a lapse in the moratorium, come with your
» [clears throat] >> If there's ever a lapse in Caledonia's
moratorium before we complete our work, bring your torch and pitchfork and that
tell me, "You lied to me, Mr. Harris." But, we can't pass it tonight.
» we have pitchforks. I'm very concerned for my community.
» Okay. >> And that is not that's not fair when you
say it that way. I feel very
bad.
» It's our Caledonia community. We live here. We hear you.
» Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't believe that
as a community, I'm very respectful of the township, very respectful of the
planning commission's time. I get that.
We're not ready. >> Yep.
» We are far from ready to be able
» I agree. >> go up
against these data centers because they come at you with some very experienced
attorneys that know the nuances
in language. >> Yep.
» And we are so far away from being prepared for that.
» So, let's not give them a angle to come at us from. The first
request, to be fair, was for a 1-year extension.
It's easy now to say, "Oh, we hear the attorney."
First request was for a 1-year and the attorney said, "Don't do it. That's
exactly what Wixom did and they now are in the courtroom rather than the
boardroom." So,
I'll say it Fine. That we're done. Ah. >> Time is ticking.
This is already August. >> Yeah.
» know where the summer went, but it's already August.
» Yeah. >> The end of the moratorium is October
17th. We only have a few weeks now to be able
to stem that, to be able to get all our ducks in a
row. >> This board meets twice in September, and
I would anticipate that we will answer the question of a moratorium, and I
would think that it would be to your liking.
That's That's all I can say. I I'll talk to you in the parking lot
more explicitly if you'd like. Thank you. Uh is there any other board
comment? Public Public comment.
All right. Is there any board comment? Mr. Hermanet.
» Well, I like I like the direction that all of you ladies bring in what you're
saying. And I also like how you handle it back and respond. I think open
transparency of what we're all trying to do together. I don't think we're that
far off. I think we're trying to do things together for the community, and I
think uh I really appreciate that on both sides.
» All right. Mr. Branch.
» Uh I wanted to say thanks to the clerk for her great work on the Alaska
cemetery uh and using finding funds that were
underutilized that can only be used for that purpose. So, good creativity to
make our community better. Um real brief summary on the planning
commission discussion about data centers on Monday.
From what I recall, it's at least the second time um we've had the ordinance
in front of us, maybe the third, but there's so much going on with planning
commission, it's hard to remember how many times we've seen it.
Um it'll be coming back to the planning
commission for additional consideration at our September 21st meeting with
updates based on our discussion Monday. Um a lot of that discussion was focused
on noise setbacks, minimum acreage, whether it should be special land use or
not for all cases, and um basically the planning commission
thought yes, it should be a special land use for all cases, and we also
considered moving the minimum down to like 1 MW, which is still roughly the
equivalent of 200 homes as far as the power used. So, um the previous minimum
that was in the draft ordinance was 5 MW.
Um and I guess in my opinion, I do think the [clears throat] planning
commission and staff are listening. We're We're paying attention when people
are at the podium. We admit that we are not the experts in data centers. We
appreciate that people are coming and giving us their opinions. We appreciate
that they're handing us documents that we can use and continue to craft the
ordinance. And I also feel like I needed to defend
the chair some because, you know, this room has six or seven people in it. The
data center meetings for the planning commission often have 25 or 30. And
we do our best work in about 2 hours. After that, everybody gets a little
tired and it's harder to function well. So, I think the chair is trying to make
sure that everybody is heard. There's a lot of people here. And then, the
planning commission needs to have time to react to that and do our actual work
in front of the public. So, it's a it's a delicate balance and um I just
wanted to provide a different perspective.
» Right. I'm going to say something similar to
what the conversation we had, but just a different observation. When it came to
the ordinance work, not the moratorium, but the actual substance of the
ordinance, I made a comment at a previous meeting.
Basically, I actually think this these are good things like building size,
setbacks. And as a result of these, what I think
are keeping in the community character of Caledonia, uh it will become less
likely that data centers come here. I was told by someone,
"Don't say things like that. Your Your purpose of passing ordinances is to
protect the community, not to make it so that data centers don't come here."
I may I have to be careful in what I say. I
can't say we're doing this to make a set of rules that they can't comply with
because then we attorneys will use that to beat us up
and maybe undo all of our good work and your good
work. Same with how you pass moratoriums. It's
not the passing of the moratoriums, it's how you do them. And so we're doing the
dance in the right step and choreography and I believe uh it will protect our
interests in what you would like to see. Um
On other issues, we had an election. Those whether it's a
one-issue election or it's president on down to us, you know, lowly township
folks, the same amount of work goes into setting up precincts and having precinct
workers, printing ballots, running tests on machine. And so we have a team that
does all that work, uh that makes sure that they're secure,
uh that you can count on the results, and that the results come out in time
for those who are paying attention to get them. So I wanted to thank our
elections team and all of our elections workers,
again, citizens of this community, uh our election workers, uh
for doing that work. Uh
Similarly, I want to thank Allison in her absence cuz I'm now
realizing all the day-to-day things that go into that job. Get a email last night
at 9:00 that there's a dripping pipe in the library. Uh
And so I called Greg. So I want to thank Greg
for taking on the dripping pipe. Uh turns out the condensation from the air
conditioner and the pipe needs to be cleaned, but someone needs to do it. We
run a tight ship uh and we use vendors and so on, but uh
someone needs to answer that call and that was Allison and and Greg is helpful
on that. Want to thank him for that. Uh then I want to just
thank Stephanie, not just for the elections magic that she really does
making Joni works good, but lately her part-time job has been making
Brian look good or taking up a lot of the stuff that Allison does. So, if I
have questions the reason if you look at into your board back tonight on the
employee health care, the right of way, all the work that our uh
manager would have done is now being done in concert with Stephanie, our
deputy clerk, uh who has talents beyond just running safe and secure elections,
but uh helping us uh cover this interim as well.
So, thank you especially to And here she is tonight cuz she knows how to make the
meetings be recorded. So, many hats uh worn well. Thank you for that. All
right. >> Yeah. Uh I also was going to point out
the election. Uh we had a whopping 34% turnout, which is
not much um for a primary, but again as uh you said Supervisor Harrison, that
the same amount of work goes into all of it. We have an awesome team. Um
from our staff here to the workers that show up and I'm just very, very grateful
to all of them. I also want to give a shout out to the fire department even
though none of them are here tonight um because we too had a leak um late at
night uh and um the guys the in the fire department came over and helped and took
care of it all and they were awesome. So, I'm very thankful for them. And we
are starting again in the next 2 weeks for the November election. So, we are
back at it again. >> Okay. Great. Well said.
» Mr. Ross. >> Up. Dr. Robertson.
» Sorry. Sorry. Um
You have used up all my soap blocks, Tom.
Um but I did I did want to extend the the
discussion a little bit on an issue that's concerned me. I've mentioned it a
couple of times at previous meeting and that's uh the follow-up on uh a comment
from from the public regarding the master plan and and kind of my concern
that this master plan has not been um updated as as required, let alone as
desired. Um and I did want to just kind of launch it with a response to the
email you sent, Brian, um about issues that you were concerned about and
you had looked back through the township records and then pointed out a number of
surveys um that have been done to gain community input on a number of issues
and then you concluded um with a statement, "It's important that our
discussions begin with a truthful and accurate understanding of our history
and the work that has already been completed." I entirely agree with that.
And to that end, I actually took it upon myself to look back at some of our
previous master plans. In fact, I have them right here. Um there are three, one
from 2000, one from 2015, and then one one dated 2024.
And I was trying to compare them to see, okay, as we've updated the master plan
over that time, you know, where where do we see the changes? What have been um
the improvements or the adjustments or whatever. And I was really having a very
difficult time going back through these three documents trying to figure out,
okay, what's different? What's new? And it dawned on me, they're all the same.
They're all almost identically the same. And I I won't spend a lot of time going
over it, but this is from the 2000 master plan and it talks about um
a um
a citizens advisory group which met periodically through the planning
process. Kind of the idea of the workshop, I guess, but that that met and
submitted uh you reviewed and and made input for the updated master plan.
If you look at the 2015 you'll see the exact same paragraph
talking about the citizens group. So, it would give you the impression that
there was another citizens group. No, they're still talking about the one from
2000. And then if you go to 24, you'll see the exact same paragraph again,
still referring to the 2000 the study that was done in 2000. And I could go
through a lot of these. I don't want to take time, but again from the 2000
document, yes, I could find several. I
I put little stickies and then I got tired of them. So, just another example,
it talks about the different land uses and it talked about industrial
land use. Where are the light industrial land uses? In 2000, it said the
Caledonia Township Industrial Park located just north of the village off
M-37 is the township's primary industrial site. That's this site right
here. That's the primary industrial site. That was in 2000. May have been
true, but if you look at 2015, says the same thing. That's the primary
industrial site. If you look at 2024, it says the same thing again. It's the
primary industrial site. So, I think I can give substance to my concern and
even though we've put dates on them, we haven't changed them. In fact, from 2015
to 24, I I cut it was a word-for-word cut and paste. That's all it was. And um
And so, I think it's true that the master plan has not been updated. And to
follow up on that, I think the I was And so what? A lot of that stuff is the
same. If you go to the community and ask them, "Do you want to maintain rural
character?" 100% say yes to that. So, some of it would be the same and the
surveys, I think, would reflect that. But one of the reasons we need to do
this, um especially the demographics, it's a requirement of the zoning
enabling act, is that all of this stuff is supposed to be in there um
and updated. In fact, in there it it talks about you got to update the plan,
you know, it's Trouble is, most people let it sit on a
shelf. Well, we'd let it sit on the shelf for 10 years and then just copy
it. In fact, the one I found basically the only difference was
um the picture Well, if you look at this is
the picture of the 2015 master plan, you can't see it from over there,
but if I show you this one, it's the exact same picture. The only
thing changed was the was the year. So, the only difference. And even from 2000
to 2000 15, almost all the text is identical. They used pie charts instead
of spreadsheets, but all the substance information is the same. So, under the
zoning enabling act, we have to follow certain criteria. One of them is a range
of housing types, cost, affordability, attainability, ages, and other
characteristics, um including single-family dwellings.
Well, the problem is it's all that demographic data dates back for almost
30 years. It's from the 1990 um census. And then there's supposed to
be things additional um
assessment of communities' existing and forecasting housing demand strategies,
policies for addressing those demands. So, the point I'm making is that
the master plan is not up to date. And what was I think interesting as well
when I was kind of researching this on the
on the website is I looked at the next section of the under the zoning enabling
act and it talked about sub plans. A planning commission may by a majority
vote of members adopt a sub plan. That's what we did for
Rogers Road Farm. You know, we said there's a unique area there. You know,
we ought to look at that individually. I think that's a good idea for the area on
68th Street and Kraft and the Beltline. In fact, when we talked about our
strategic plan it's been almost a year ago now. I think it was Brian introduced
the idea of maybe we should be looking at that zoning because that's a unique
spot in the township and I don't think should we we should be stuck with data
and and and opinions that are decades old. And that is my comment. Thank you.
» All right. Thank you. All right.
» Move to adjourn. >> Support.
» All in favor of adjournment, please say I. I. If you oppose, say no.
We are adjourned.