1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,080 Yeah. 2 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,680 Yeah. 3 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,600 Oh. 4 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,120 Oh, really? Oh. 5 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,880 Oh. 6 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,560 Oh. Oh. 7 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,680 Oh, you're not going to Oh. 8 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,520 Oh. 9 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,880 Oh, wow. Oh. 10 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,680 Oh. I'm always your 11 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,680 I think 12 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:27,560 Yeah. Yeah. 13 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:27,560 Oh. 14 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,520 Oh. 15 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Oh. All right. 16 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,280 Oh. 17 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:50,040 Well, that's Yeah. Yeah. 18 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,080 I don't 19 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,600 The first Oh. 20 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Yeah. 21 00:02:15,586 --> 00:02:17,606 » [music] 22 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:27,800 » Good evening supervisors, staff, and guests. 23 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,800 Please sign in on your tablets. 24 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,440 Everybody signing in? 25 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,240 I have nothing on my thing here. 26 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,600 You got everybody? 27 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Everybody signed in? Okay, they are now. All right. 28 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,800 Okay. How many do we have present? 29 00:03:06,959 --> 00:03:12,000 We got 14. 14. 30 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:15,800 We have 14 present. We have seven absent. 31 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:21,080 Please join me in the pledge of allegiance. 32 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:29,720 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the 33 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:35,400 republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 34 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:39,360 justice for all. Thank you. 35 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,040 I may need a motion to approve the agenda. 36 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,920 All right, I have a motion by supervisor Miller and a second by supervisor 37 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:57,360 Elliott. There are no questions on the agenda. 38 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,360 Please vote your ballot. 39 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:13,280 All right, we have 14 yes, zero nay, seven absent. All right, moving on. You 40 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:18,600 have the minutes in your packet. Are there any questions on the minutes? 41 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:23,120 If not, I need a motion for that. Supervisor Diedrick and a second by 42 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,919 Supervisor McCann. All in 43 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,240 um Please vote your ballot. 44 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:42,840 Again, 14 yes, seven absent, so we still have a quorum. 45 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:48,919 All right, any communications? And we have one gentleman in public 46 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,919 participation, Mr. Fisher. 47 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,520 » Thank you. >> You're welcome. Uh my name is Kevin 48 00:05:00,919 --> 00:05:06,280 Fisher. I am actually um have been on the Zoning Board of Adjustment for 16 49 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,320 years. But I just want to give a shout-out to 50 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:14,320 two of the people that were on that committee that retired lately, 51 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:18,919 uh Deb Reinhardt and John Cousin. Uh they were both on the committee when 52 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:22,040 I got on there, so they put in a lot more years than I've been on here 53 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:25,800 so far, so but I just wanted to give a shout-out to those people um 54 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,480 with all the knowledge that they provided, 55 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,240 especially when I first got on there, I didn't know what was going on and they 56 00:05:29,919 --> 00:05:36,919 they helped walk you through things. Um 57 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:40,600 Deb, she actually printed up a a whole like little 58 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:44,720 well, it's a whole page full, but she read that every time before the the 59 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:50,080 hearing started, so the people knew exactly how to participate. And when 60 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,280 they voted me as chairperson, she actually gave me that and said, "Here, 61 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,560 Kevin, I won't need this anymore." So, so I use it I've only used it a couple 62 00:05:54,840 --> 00:06:01,440 of times now, but it but it just comes in very handy. So, 63 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:04,440 um and John John just a just a a a wealth of knowledge as well because he 64 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,120 lives down by the lake and he's experienced a lot of these variances and 65 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,520 stuff. But the best thing about John is he's 66 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:16,920 just got this uh just this uh wit about him that he's 67 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:19,600 just it's just kind of neat to see. So, uh that was all I had. I just wanted to 68 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,240 give a shout out to both of those people for their many years of service. So, 69 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:27,164 thank you. >> And thank you, Kevin. Yes, both of them 70 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,164 have been here a while. [applause] 71 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:35,280 Okay, in special business, uh Chris Moyer, our director of 72 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:40,600 planning, zoning, and land information will present information about data 73 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,600 centers. 74 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,840 » Everybody, my name's Chris Moyer, county's planning, zoning, and land 75 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:39,120 information director. So, I was recently asked to give this presentation just on 76 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,800 data centers. Um it's been a hot topic in the state for the last couple of 77 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,640 years. and that a few of you have also gotten some questions too about them. 78 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:49,080 So, I just want to kind of give you a general overview about that. 79 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:52,240 So, taking a look at our agenda for the today then, um we'll be talking about 80 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,200 what a data center is, a little bit of the history of it, um why Wisconsin is 81 00:07:54,640 --> 00:08:00,840 the current focus right now for data centers, uh looking at some challenges 82 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:04,000 as well as concerns uh just from a general land use perspective, 83 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,520 uh then taking a look at land use and zoning implications, uh as well as uh 84 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,520 general zoning jurisdiction and addressing data center questions that 85 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,800 you may be receiving from the public as well. 86 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,520 So, starting off really, what is a data center? So, a data centers uh they're 87 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,680 the physical features uh facilities that organizations and businesses use to 88 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,880 store, um process, as well as transmit digital 89 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:30,200 information. Looks like we lost the screen again. 90 00:08:28,919 --> 00:08:34,000 Uh so, uh further getting into it, um really 91 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:38,960 it's uh consists of routers, switches, firewalls, um storage systems, servers, 92 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:43,159 and really other networking equipment. Um we see a lot of uh GPUs and CPUs are 93 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,560 the main focus on some of the larger type data centers now. They're the main 94 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:51,680 focus for development. Uh data centers have also um really been in use since uh 95 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,080 the 1950s. Uh we see that um good example would be 96 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,360 um the movie The Imitation Game if you're 97 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:02,600 familiar with that. Um really it was a large mainframe computer that they had 98 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:07,360 created for that particular situation. Um really used to kind of process uh 99 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:11,760 complex math equations uh to try and crack codes. So, little bit of 100 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:16,000 background on data centers. Um from a user perspective, um whenever you send 101 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:20,040 an email, um you open an app on a smartphone, 102 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:24,920 um or you stream a movie, store uh files on the cloud system, or really um use 103 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:28,440 even social media to uh do a post, that information itself is being processed 104 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:31,520 within a data center. Uh so, data centers really they're the core backbone 105 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,160 of really the internet and really how that functions. 106 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:38,280 Um within the United States currently, there are roughly 4,200 active data 107 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,200 centers Um and there are roughly 47 active data 108 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:48,120 centers in Wisconsin. As of October 25th, an additional 2,700 data centers 109 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,720 were being proposed in the United States and there were also an additional 43 110 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:57,320 data centers that are currently either in the planning phase or in production 111 00:09:53,720 --> 00:10:00,760 phase in Wisconsin. Taking a look at some of the examples 112 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:04,600 that we have on the screen here, we see 113 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,760 the 1970s and 1980s depiction. That would be an example of what's an 114 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,840 enterprise level data system. This is something where you typically 115 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:16,040 have it's either within a room or small building. It's like a data closet from 116 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:20,640 that perspective. They really grew when you had companies 117 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,760 like IBM that were able to develop business grade servers. 118 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:27,120 These enterprise facilities are typically owned or operated by a single 119 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:31,120 company and they use it for their internal services. 120 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,720 This type of data center is still being used today. A good example of it locally 121 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,360 here would be within the courthouse as well. We have an active data center. 122 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,280 It's a large data closet. We've got smaller data closets that are also 123 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,240 located throughout the courthouse as well. All of them would really be 124 00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:48,920 considered to be data centers. From our department's perspective as 125 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,720 well, within the land information side of things, we have our own GIS servers, 126 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,480 too. So, we would function really the same way 127 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,760 as a just a mini data center. Taking a look at our next examples on 128 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:05,000 there, we've got some co-location facilities. Those really became 129 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:07,760 prominent around the 1990s, early 2000s. So, they really started to see when 130 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,960 business and organizations really shifted from hosting services on site to 131 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:16,000 more offsite type locations that are owned by a third party third party 132 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:20,760 companies to operate these facilities. Really, as the name suggests, these are 133 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,080 really third party companies that have multiple businesses they're storing 134 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:28,000 their information and data within this singular location. And they really 135 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:32,400 became possible with the expansion of the internet and faster download and 136 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:36,120 upload speeds, part of the dot-com era. So, why would companies really decide to 137 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,840 use facilities such as this instead of hosting their own data? Uh, when we take 138 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,680 a look at the pros on their side of things, really it's the lower initial 139 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,440 cost. They don't have to pay for servers, they don't have to buy all the 140 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:49,640 equipment. They don't necessarily need to have the staffing as well to be able 141 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:53,640 to function. Um, it's easier to scale these type of facilities, too. 142 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,440 Um, the infrastructure really is managed by that third-party company, so you 143 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:01,200 don't have that, um, expense. Uh, there's built-in redundancy. There's 144 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:05,000 less cost to operate in general, and there um, better protection against 145 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:08,200 severe weather situations, um, or power outages from that 146 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,760 perspective, as well. Looking at some of the cons, though, 147 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,040 there's really less control over the system itself and how it functions. Uh, 148 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:18,240 they're typically more subscription-based systems right now is 149 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:21,640 what we're seeing, um, which can be more expensive really in the long run. 150 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,200 Um, there's also a dependency upon having an internet connection, so 151 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,240 obviously your internet goes down, you lose access then to your potential files 152 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,080 at that point. And it can also be more difficult to migrate platforms once you 153 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,920 already have selected a vendor. Um, from that perspective, as their back-end 154 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,760 systems don't always work together. Uh, when we look at the third example we 155 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,440 have on the screen here, this is more of a hyperscale facility. 156 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:46,480 Um, this is what we're seeing more so from the 2010s on to present. These are 157 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:50,160 large-scale systems that are being designed more as a campus style, really 158 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:53,680 with very large interconnected buildings taking up hundreds of acres. 159 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:57,680 Uh, several recent proposals in Wisconsin have been for this campus 160 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:01,960 style facility. Uh, they range from a few hundred acres to, uh, there's one 161 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:05,320 that's over 1,000 acres in size. Uh, these facilities are often owned by 162 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:09,160 the larger businesses. Uh, think of your Amazons, Microsoft, Google. Uh, and 163 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:14,280 they're needed to handle more cloud computing, AI, and just global internet 164 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,280 functions, as well. 165 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:21,360 So, why are we seeing more development in Wisconsin now? So, taking a look at 166 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:26,600 Wisconsin Act 2023, uh, excuse me, Wisconsin 2023 Act 19, which was the, 167 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:30,080 uh, biennial budget bill, really created a data center sales and use tax 168 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,880 exemption program for qualified facilities, really based on their total 169 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,800 investment as well as the county's population. 170 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:41,200 Uh so, um with this type of development for 171 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:45,400 County of Kenosha example here, because we've got just over 50,000 population, 172 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,880 we'd be in the 50,000 to 100,000 category. So, a facility they would need 173 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:55,600 to really invest over $100 million to qualify for this potential tax exemption 174 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:59,520 in Wisconsin. And these incentives have really helped drive the more recent wave 175 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,680 of development in data centers that we've seen the last couple of years 176 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,120 here. Uh the second reason why we're seeing 177 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,960 more development is just the decreasing electric and municipal water demand 178 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,360 across the state for the last two decades. So, Wisconsin, we have an 179 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,880 abundance of fresh water compared to other states, making it enticing for 180 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,720 developers to want to come here. Um decreasing usage rates and efficiency 181 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,080 improvements in both water and electric utilities have also 182 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:29,440 created additional capacity for utilities to take on higher demand uses. 183 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:33,200 Uh the argument being made is that since development has been Excuse me, since 184 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,240 demand has been decreasing, utilities have needed to increase the cost for the 185 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:42,040 average consumers to be able to keep up with infrastructure maintenance. Uh so, 186 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:46,080 they also argue that because they're less able to perform facility upgrades, 187 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,680 then because they have a decrease in revenue, 188 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,040 it's really leading to an aging infrastructure and a larger issue in 189 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,880 general. Uh with this type of development though, 190 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:59,880 comes the need for significant utility improvements above and beyond what 191 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:03,680 typical use cases that we see. For example, the Port Washington data center 192 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:07,640 needed the American Transmission Company to revamp their existing transmission 193 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:11,680 lines to force junction to the tune of about $1.2 billion to be able to meet 194 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:15,320 their proposed energy demands, which is what we're seeing running through the 195 00:15:12,839 --> 00:15:15,320 county. 196 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:21,040 Uh other issues that we see as well that's bringing it to Wisconsin is just 197 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,880 lower land and operating costs compared to other states. 198 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,760 Uh Wisconsin's in the bottom third in the United States in terms of average 199 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:31,320 price per acre for land. Uh cooler temperatures as well for half of the 200 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:34,480 year can also improve cooling efficiency and reduce just the general operating 201 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:39,160 costs for some of these facilities compared to warmer climates. 202 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:43,160 Uh then taking a look at just our last point in here, proximity to major metro 203 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:48,080 area. So, data centers are often cited near major metro areas to reduce 204 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:52,200 latency. Um that's the delay between a user request and then a server response. 205 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:57,160 So, the further away that a data center is um to the end user, the longer that 206 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:01,080 the delay is. So, they try to build them closer as well as spread them out into 207 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:05,120 other areas throughout the country to be able to help reduce that latency that 208 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:09,040 they're seeing. It also uh provides some additional redundancy. So, if you've got 209 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:12,560 large natural disasters or other events that occur, a single facility going down 210 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,200 isn't going to shut down the entire network essentially. 211 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:21,400 They also do that too to try and help spread out water demand as well as just 212 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,400 electric demand across the grid. 213 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Uh looking at concerns and challenges. So, the primary one that we've been 214 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,960 hearing um within the last year or so really is just high electric demand and 215 00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:37,480 increased utility rates. Uh I'd say it's probably the number one concern that 216 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:40,880 we've been seeing. Um at the state level, uh there were a couple of bills 217 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,200 that were also proposed in January to try and address some of these issues. Uh 218 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,560 they were primarily focused on utility rates, water usage, and just cooling 219 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,080 methods in general for these types of facilities, but both of those bills 220 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:55,680 failed and they did not progress at the state level. 221 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,960 Uh even though the Public Service Commission does not directly regulate 222 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,720 data centers, that's handled at the local level, uh they do still have 223 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,040 control and authority to regulate utility rates. 224 00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:10,400 Uh in April of this year, the PSC did approve a modified uh We Energies large 225 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:13,520 load tariff, which was intended to ensure that very large data centers, 226 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:17,439 including projects like the Port Washington data center, pay their own 227 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:22,280 utility related costs rather than shifting them onto the end consumers. Uh 228 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:26,319 similar action was also taken in May for an Alliant Energy project and it shows 229 00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:30,040 that the PSC uh has a broader expectation that data centers and these 230 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:34,080 types of facilities are going to be bearing their own costs when it comes to 231 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:37,520 um utility related costs and projects really going forward. Um it's part of 232 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,000 these actions that they did though, it's not an all-encompassing action. Um for 233 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,480 the We Energies one, it did directly impact their large load tariff, which 234 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,880 does impact all projects that they have going forward. Um but for other ones it 235 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:53,120 did not impact that, so it's really viewed on a case-by-case basis for how 236 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:57,080 these are addressed going forward. But at least it's it's positive news coming 237 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:01,320 from the PSC that they're willing to to listen to constituents and see the 238 00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,320 issues at hand. 239 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,160 Uh taking a look at our next issue, which is more water usage and cooling. 240 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,880 So water usage is often considered one of the uh more highly debated and 241 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,000 concerning topics surrounding data centers. Part of that's due to the 242 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:18,280 wide-ranging reports that we see in water usage for the facilities. Uh each 243 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,480 data center operates different based on how they're being utilized by their 244 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:25,600 parent company and how they're being cooled. Data centers that primarily 245 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:30,240 focus on data storage and cloud services compared to like AI services, uh they're 246 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:33,520 typically using significantly less um water from that perspective because they 247 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:38,080 don't need it. They're not generating as much heat as what an AI data center um 248 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,040 would be generating. The Environmental and Energy Study 249 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,920 Institute published an article in June of last year, which is taking a look at 250 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:50,040 data center water usage. They found that a medium-sized data center similar to a 251 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:54,160 colocation facility of 10 megawatts can consume roughly 110 million gallons of 252 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,640 water annually, which is equivalent to annual water usage approximately 1,000 253 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,160 households. A large data center such as a hyperscale 254 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:06,680 facility can consume roughly 5 million gallons of water per day or about 1.8 255 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:10,040 billion gallons of water annually, which is equivalent to a municipality of 256 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:14,120 30,000 people. So all of these uh factors are really 257 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,840 are dependent upon the size in megawatts of that particular data center and also 258 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:22,040 the type of cooling methods that they're using. Uh the Port Washington facility, 259 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:27,800 for example, will be roughly 900 megawatts in size, which is a very large 260 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:30,560 data center. Um it is 672-acre facility. 261 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,880 Uh the developers plan to use a closed-loop cooling system that will 262 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:37,360 have a peak daily water usage of approximately 22,000 gallons of water, 263 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,880 which is significantly less than the other examples that we were talking 264 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:44,800 about. Um this is lower primarily due to it 265 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,880 being that closed-loop style system, but the trade-off that you deal with the 266 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:52,840 closed-loop system is then your energy needs are significantly higher. 267 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:56,200 Uh that's why we see in some situations, um especially earlier on, they were 268 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:01,160 developing more um direct water um water-applied or 269 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,840 water-evaporation style systems because the water was cheap. Uh so, they would 270 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:09,160 try to go with the cheapest electric style option that they had. They would 271 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:14,160 use millions of gallons of water. Uh the water would just evaporate, um but their 272 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,480 energy demands were significantly less. Um because of public concerns and issues 273 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,040 that we've been seeing over the last couple of years, a lot of them are 274 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:24,760 trying to make that shift now towards the closed-loop systems instead uh to 275 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:29,400 try to address that. Uh part of the issues that we were also 276 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:32,800 seeing with that was water discharge, um which is also just a general concern. 277 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,760 Those older systems using the evaporation cooling towers, uh water 278 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:41,520 consumption was quite high in addition to that discharge rate. Uh the rate um 279 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:44,800 typically had higher concentrated minerals in it. They also had other 280 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,880 chemicals in it that were just a part of the maintenance process in general for 281 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,920 these facilities, um which are also obviously a fairly 282 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,400 significant environmental concern if it's being discharged to a local 283 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,800 waterway. Uh the more advanced uh more recent 284 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:00,080 systems like the closed-loop system at Port Washington eliminates that 285 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:04,080 particular issue. Uh so, it's really important when you start talking data 286 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:07,640 centers to focus on the type of cooling methods that are being proposed for each 287 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:13,080 particular facility um just to be able to determine what 288 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,080 potential water impacts that it has. 289 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:19,520 One of the other main concerns is always noise. Um noise is uh more of a concern 290 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:24,080 with these facilities because they have constant cooling, large backup power 291 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:28,880 sources in the event of an emergency. Uh so data centers um typically contain 292 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:33,280 HVAC systems, uh chillers, cooling towers, pumps, and just numerous 293 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:36,840 industrial fans. Um combined, these sources produce just a constant 294 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:40,520 background noise that um can impact adjacent properties. 295 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,960 Taking a look at just general background decibels in a rural uh residential area 296 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:49,880 at night is typically around 20 to 30 decibels, uh while urban neighborhoods 297 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:53,480 are usually around 35 to 40 decibels. Uh just for a point of reference, uh 298 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:57,080 normal conversation back and forth with someone would be around 55 to 60 299 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:01,040 decibels. Uh so data centers, they typically aim 300 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,560 for around 45 decibels. Um that's usually compatible with most municipal 301 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,520 noise ordinance standards. Uh you can also do conditional use 302 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:12,800 standards to potentially try to lower that uh to match surrounding 303 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:17,000 neighborhood um noise levels as well. Backup generators are typically one of 304 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:21,760 the um mostly conditioned noise standards with data centers. Generators 305 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:26,240 often exceed 100 decibels um in noise, so conditions are placed 306 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,760 upon them for when, how often, and um how long they can be tested for. 307 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,400 Obviously, emergency situations, they would have to be running, um but they 308 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,880 can potentially try to mitigate issues by putting them in locations that are 309 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:40,840 not going to have as much of an impact on potential um neighboring property 310 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,680 owners as well. Uh just because of the noise concerns 311 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:49,880 alone, um it's one of the main factors on why data centers are usually viewed 312 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,880 as more of an industrial-style use. 313 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:55,760 Taking a look at our fourth point here, uh which would be land space issues. So 314 00:22:53,680 --> 00:23:00,960 hyperscale projects can vary greatly in size, like we already mentioned. Uh Port 315 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:05,880 Washington project, roughly 670 acres. The uh Beaver Dam project is uh just 316 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:11,360 over 500 acres. And uh with after several expansions, the Mount Pleasant 317 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,960 campus is over 1,300 acres in size. Developers are often looking for green 318 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,600 space to be able to develop these cities, which typically includes 319 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,520 existing agricultural lands. Uh farmland in general is obviously 320 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:24,120 available commodity, um but more so in agricultural 321 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,600 communities. Um so this results in increased costs of remaining 322 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:31,680 agricultural land, loss of productive farmland, and the fragmentation of 323 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:35,120 existing farmland as well. Some municipalities are starting to push 324 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:39,480 for a minimum floor area ratios to help reduce uh density sprawl on these data 325 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,800 center sites, which can then encourage them to try to build more vertically 326 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,120 instead of just sprawling out across the landscape. 327 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,760 Uh the last one I wanted to bring up then was uh vehicle traffic and road 328 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,280 wear concerns. Uh these are often concerns with data 329 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,480 center projects during the initial construction phase of the project 330 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,040 itself. Facilities um taking up hundreds of 331 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,840 acres, uh you're talking thousands of loads of gravel, rock, and just 332 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,960 concrete, and materials in general being brought to the site um to for 333 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,600 development. Obviously, this causes significant wear and tear on existing 334 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,760 roads. Um can be seen with the Port Washington 335 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:18,360 project as material was brought in from dozens of quarries across the state, 336 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:21,680 some of as far north as uh ones located in the town of Charlestown even, 337 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,400 to be able to meet their demands. So, these activities can significantly 338 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:29,440 reduce just their overall life expectancy of regional roads, um as well 339 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:33,480 as roads adjacent to the project in conditions that are often put in place 340 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:37,440 on them to try to address road damage and offset the cost to be able to repair 341 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,440 them. 342 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,360 Uh taking a look at land use and zoning implications. 343 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,600 So, due to the intensity of the use, most municipalities usually view data 344 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:52,880 centers as an industrial use. Some municipalities have also gone the route 345 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:57,080 of uh creating specific zoning districts for them uh to allow data centers. 346 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,800 Municipalities have decided to go this route due to the changes that were made 347 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:06,280 um with a conditional use permit process as part of the 2017 Act 67. Act 67 348 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,720 limited the power of local governments to 349 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:12,480 buy limited local governments by requiring 350 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:16,160 decisions to be based on substantial evidence. So, if an applicant is able to 351 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,360 meet all the particular standards and requirements that are labeled within the 352 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:23,840 ordinance and that the committee places upon it, the committee is then required 353 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:27,080 to grant that particular CUP. There's no discretion that's within that they have 354 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,000 to approve it. Map amendments or re-zones for 355 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,200 municipalities a little bit more discretion. If a proposed re-zone does 356 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,240 not match the comprehensive plan or is not consistent with surrounding land 357 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,320 uses, it's easier for a municipality to be able to deny that re-zone 358 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,920 compared to a conditional use permit, which is why they're creating these 359 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:49,120 additional zoning districts to put them in a separate category. 360 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,240 Most of the land under county zoning is designated as agricultural as well as 361 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,480 being located within farmland preservation certified districts. Within 362 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,720 those districts, the particular use for data centers is not actually a permitted 363 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,680 use. The Department of Agricultural Trade and 364 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,840 Consumer Protection provided this interpretation in one of the last 365 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,840 conferences that we went to. They wanted to make that specific 366 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,400 distinction that these are not utility grade facilities. These are a separate, 367 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,200 usually a private entity that's coming in. So, we have more discretion over 368 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:19,640 what can be permitted and what cannot be permitted with these uses, whereas 369 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,520 utility facilities would end up going to the Public Service Commission for 370 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,800 approval and we have very limited control at the local level. 371 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:33,400 Now, looking at other potential land use concerns, so while county said while the 372 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:37,280 county has several transmission lines and substations, the majority of our 373 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:41,760 regional water usage is sourced from local ground water. 374 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:46,120 Another way to be able to restrict the location of data centers would be to 375 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:49,760 require these facilities to be located on municipal water and sewer services. 376 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,920 The majority of our towns, with the exception of the Forest Junction area, 377 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:57,400 do not have a communal water supply uh requiring that such a facility be on 378 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:01,400 sewer and water would help reduce the potential impact and groundwater 379 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:05,080 drawdown on neighboring properties. And we're seeing that in some situations of 380 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,200 municipalities requiring that. A lot of situations we see as well is that these 381 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,880 developments, they may be occurring on fringe locations within townships, but 382 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,640 they're being annexed by cities and villages. So, in most cases, it's 383 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:22,400 occurring within cities and villages because they have the services um for 384 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,520 these particular facilities to function. And then the last point on here is just 385 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,240 the the county's uh current general zoning ordinance has standards really in 386 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,960 place to be able to address data centers. 387 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,720 Uh signing a new data center would likely 388 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,920 result in the conversion of several hundred acres of farmlands, and based on 389 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:39,880 our current comprehensive plan, it's really unlikely to meet the 390 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:42,840 justifications uh needed to convert such a large tract of land for this type of 391 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,320 use. Uh this request would also likely not be 392 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:50,360 approved by any of the townships under county zoning uh for failing to meet 393 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,960 consistency requirements between zoning ordinance as well as the comprehensive 394 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,280 plan. So, if a data center were to be approved 395 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,880 uh through the rezoning process in our jurisdiction, the use is still not 396 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,080 listed as an approved use in our zoning ordinance. 397 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,640 The county zoning ordinance is a permissive-based ordinance, uh which 398 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,520 means that unless the use is specifically listed in the ordinance for 399 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,600 that district, the use itself is not approved at all. It's not permitted. 400 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:18,200 Uh there's potential option in this situation where they could go with a use 401 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:21,400 not listed um section that we have, uh but these are viewed on a case-by-case 402 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:25,040 basis. They need to meet use-based consistency requirements to be even 403 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,720 considered. Um based on our current language, I feel like we're in a good 404 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,280 position to be able to address data centers. 405 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,880 Uh looking at general zoning by jurisdiction, a little bit of what we 406 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:40,000 talked about, just the general zoning ordinance um at the county level, 407 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,200 uh the standards that I mentioned would be in place within the towns of 408 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,080 Brillion, Charlestown, New Holstein, and Woodville. And all the text is a little 409 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,560 bit small on the map there, but those would be the communities that are in 410 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,920 green. The uh communities that are in yellow, 411 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,360 those would be ones that administer their own general zoning requirements 412 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:59,280 and are not under the county's general purview or jurisdiction, either. 413 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,720 So, for townships that are not in county zoning, the question will be based 414 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,080 really on the current zoning ordinances and their comprehensive plan. 415 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:10,120 So, all most of them did participate with the county in our comprehensive 416 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:14,240 plan update. We did identify some areas as transitional in the comprehensive 417 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,400 plan, which could include industrial industrial development. Potentially, 418 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,160 most of those areas are not large enough to support a hyperscale data center or 419 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,880 would conflict with the surrounding land uses and zoning districts in that area. 420 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,960 The town of Sack Bridge is the only municipality that does not have zoning 421 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,080 in the county, so there's little that could be done from a regulatory 422 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,600 perspective to be able to regulate a facility such as this. 423 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,640 I know that moratoria were, you know, another discussion point that has come 424 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,200 up recently, too. Enacting moratoria has been one of the 425 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,000 main ways that municipalities in the state have tried to put a temporary 426 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,960 pause on data center development. It's a practice that can use to delay the 427 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:53,360 process, so municipalities have time to come up with zoning standards for a set 428 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,720 period of time, but based on our current standards, like I said, I feel like 429 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,680 we're in a fairly good position and don't need to enact a moratorium at this 430 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,160 time. Also, a moratorium enacted at the county 431 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,600 level would only be applicable in the municipalities where we currently have 432 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,840 zoning jurisdiction. So, like I said, the four municipalities on there is the 433 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,520 only place where it would be even applicable. All the other 434 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:19,280 municipalities, the cities, villages, towns of Brothertown, Chilton, and 435 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:23,040 Rantoul, if we do a moratorium, it would not be applicable in those locations as 436 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,120 we do not have jurisdiction there. So, each municipality, they would have 437 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,040 to come up with their own moratorium language if that's the direction that 438 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,480 they want to go to be able to enforce that. 439 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,400 And then our last points here is just addressing data center questions in 440 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,640 general. So, a couple of key points just to focus on is don't over promise 441 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,520 county authority on projects just when talking with constituents. Uh like we 442 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,160 said, the county only has general zoning in four of our eight townships. So, our 443 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,000 authority is really limited from that perspective. We can't enact a a sweeping 444 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,280 ordinance to be able to limit something like this or to approve something like 445 00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:00,280 this uh just because we don't have the authority to do that in those areas. 446 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,520 Another key point is just commitment to process transparency. 447 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:08,440 Uh so, if a project is in an area under county uh jurisdiction, we have specific 448 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:12,040 processes that are outlined in ordinance to be able to be transparent as well as 449 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,640 prior public hearings for the public to engage and interact with the process 450 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,720 itself. If someone does have a particular 451 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,600 question in mind, um they're more than welcome to contact the department. You 452 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,000 know, we're more than happy to answer any potential questions that people 453 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:28,200 have, address any concerns that they have. One of our main focuses is just to 454 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,920 help educate the public so that they're, you know, more understanding of um what 455 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,400 our uh requirements, what our ordinance language says, and all that, just um be 456 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,920 more transparent with the public in general. 457 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,040 And uh just a general statement, too, that we have on here is uh just because 458 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,720 the the county is a mixture of county zone areas and municipalities that have 459 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:49,280 their own authority, uh there's not one single answer that um for every proposed 460 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,800 site. Uh residents really deserve a clearer um explanation of which body 461 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,400 would review a specific land use issue, uh what other permits would be required, 462 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:01,760 and where the public can participate in that particular process. So, residents 463 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,520 are really urged to uh directly contact their local municipalities if they have 464 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,280 any questions about a particular project or really what that review process looks 465 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,880 like because it's really it's on a case-by-case basis, and it may be a 466 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,080 different municipality what they think of would actually regulate it. 467 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,440 » Are there any questions with this? 468 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,920 Please um press your [clears throat] request to 469 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,920 speak. 470 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,280 Ryan, Supervisor Cole. 471 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,480 You had a question. >> No. 472 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,480 » No. 473 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,040 Us. >> Machesky, Supervisor. 474 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:44,920 » Supervisor Machesky. >> I just wanted to clarify. So, we 475 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,640 currently have one in our county. >> So, we have the one that is actually 476 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,240 here in the courthouse. There's also one that is in Harrison that is more of a I 477 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:56,480 wouldn't say quite a co-location style, but it's a larger facility. 478 00:32:54,520 --> 00:33:00,360 Those are the only ones that I'm aware of. You know, obviously most businesses 479 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:04,200 have some form of that, but it's their own personal use. The only active larger 480 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,120 one would be the one in Harrison. >> Okay. And that one, based on your 481 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,440 presentation, would have been approved by the village of Harrison and the 482 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,720 county wouldn't have had any say in that. 483 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,720 » Correct. Yep. >> Do you have any specs on like kind of 484 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:19,280 what they use at that facility? >> We weren't involved in any of that 485 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,240 process, so we're not really privy to any of the information that they had. It 486 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,360 would be whatever they have publicly available. Like I said, we we just 487 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,000 weren't involved in that one. >> Thanks for the presentation. I really 488 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,200 enjoyed learning about it. >> Yep. 489 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,320 » Supervisor Williams. >> Matt. 490 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:39,200 Yeah, thanks for that. I appreciate the detail. Um, do you have a quantifiable 491 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,680 sense of scale for the current existing active data centers throughout the state 492 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,760 and how that compares to some of the the hyperscale projects that are being 493 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,480 proposed? I assume we don't have anything hyper yet in the state. 494 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:54,520 » We do. Yeah, we actually have several online. Yep, there's the Port Washington 495 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:58,000 one, which that's the 560-ish acre size one. 496 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:02,080 There's also the Mount Horeb, Mount Pleasant 497 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:07,320 Madison area. That one is 1,300 acres in size. So, that's a I think that one is 498 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:10,840 over 2,000 megawatt capacity, which is extremely large facility that we would 499 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,679 typically see. The next largest one is that Port 500 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,200 Washington one, which is less than half that size in capacity. [clears throat] 501 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:21,480 And that's still considered to be a hyperscale facility. The image that I 502 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,480 had up a bring that up here for you guys. This is 503 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:29,480 actually a rendering of what the Port Washington facility looks like. It's a 504 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:34,440 four different core areas, different buildings. That's more that campus 505 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:37,879 style. That's that hyperscale facility. >> Do you know other than the hyperscale 506 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,399 what the kind of megawattage is throughout the rest of the state? I 507 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,399 mean, is that one in Mount Horeb twice the size of everything else? You know, I 508 00:34:42,919 --> 00:34:46,760 know that hyperscales are really on another level. Is it something along 509 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:51,320 those lines? >> I would say that facility itself 510 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:55,200 probably makes up 2/3, if not 3/4 of the overall capacity, just in data centers 511 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,560 in Wisconsin in general. Um, just because like I said, the next largest 512 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:02,200 one is not even half that size in capacity. And those are really some of 513 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,240 the major ones. Uh, the Beaver Dam project, I believe is even half the size 514 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:10,320 of the Port Washington one as well. Um, so they're starting to make that 515 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:15,000 shift towards some of these larger ones um, in our area. Um, it just hasn't been 516 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,720 as common here. I know West Virginia, Virginia area, um, they're more 517 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:22,680 considered to be kind of like the the main hub for data center developments 518 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,440 um, out there. So, they've got significantly more development going on 519 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:30,000 over there. >> Supervisor Miller. 520 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:33,280 » My my connector's not working. So, thank you, Madam Chairman. 521 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,920 Yeah, I have some questions. Um, being from the older group, uh, the 522 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:42,120 DNR back in the '70s and '80s was all concerned about 523 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:45,680 digging too close to navigable streams. You take about the Hayden swamp, they 524 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:50,520 did everything to keep the farmers from plowing too close and navigable streams. 525 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,960 I even had one. They tried to make mine a navigable stream, which is a mud hole. 526 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:59,880 It was a pasture land that I bought with a home at and it's not. So, I dug a pond 527 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:04,160 in '02. But, from the '70s to '02, things really changed. Why did the DNR 528 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:07,880 not go to sleep and let these people take navigable streams down at Beaver 529 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:11,440 Dam and Port Washington? People that lived there that have been living there 530 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:14,280 40, 50 years, they closed off navigable streams and they're building on it. 531 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,560 Other concerns, I've been to some of these demonstrations and these 532 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,520 information meetings. Other concerns are why aren't they building the buildings 533 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,760 higher to take less land? Same thing it should have been with high schools ever 534 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,960 since the '80s. You got fat kids running around school, but they don't even have 535 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:30,880 to go up and down stairs. Okay? You could put in elevators, okay? 536 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,840 All right, the other concerns are you need to let people know. Town of 537 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,360 Greenleaf kicked them out a year and a half ago. Kewaunee kicked them out a 538 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:40,520 year ago. Because I've been kind of busy with my wife's funeral stuff, I don't 539 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,720 know what Wrightstown is doing, but there was pretty good opposition there 540 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,400 and I'm and I sent them some documents of people up there. 541 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:51,760 And the other thing is is Canada going nuts with this too or not? Do you know? 542 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,280 » I haven't heard anything. Just something like that on the Canadian side of it. 543 00:36:53,040 --> 00:37:00,960 » it in Africa or South America or Australia. Why here? 544 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:04,360 Somebody is making a mint out of this. The last part is 545 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,720 I have some farmer friends that own acres in Brown County. 546 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,120 Three or four years ago they weren't saying they were buying the land for 547 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:15,120 data centers, but they came around and two both these farmers said, "When you 548 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:20,320 connect everybody around here, all the farmers including in my 360 and my 180, 549 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,640 then I'll come and consider selling to." They never got more than two land owners 550 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:28,120 out of probably about 22 or 24 to compare. So they washed. They never said 551 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:33,320 it was about data centers, but the deception was there, okay? So we need to 552 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,520 stop it. Uh back in my the planning and zoning last year, I threw tried to get a 553 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:41,440 proclamation through that we keep them out of Calumet County. Pretty interested 554 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,720 in good old Samaria. People that come from Chicago, they love it up here going 555 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,680 north. You know what I mean? You're rubbing that all out and you're letting 556 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:52,440 them build these data centers. So I say stand up. Opposition. Veterans are all 557 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:56,040 against this all across the country and they could care less about a lot of 558 00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:00,240 veterans. 440,000 in California alone choose to be homeless. They don't want 559 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:06,000 nothing to do with the government. Thank you for hearing me, Madam Chair. 560 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:09,960 » Um I have a question. Um I've read many studies about the 561 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,360 shortage of water >> Yep. 562 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:18,480 » as it comes into the future. Um are these data centers recycling 563 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:23,200 their own water or where are they going to get all the water that's demanded for 564 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:27,200 their operation? Do you know that? >> Yeah, so a lot of them are going more 565 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:31,000 towards that closed-loop style system. Uh which that closed-loop system is 566 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,320 using significantly less water than what some of the older ones were where I said 567 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:38,880 some of the older larger ones were using, you know, millions of gallons a 568 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:42,280 day. Um the Port Washington project itself is using roughly 22,000 gallons 569 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,040 and they say that's not even part of their cooling. That's just part of their 570 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,480 general operations because they have almost 400 employees a part of it. 571 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:54,000 They're saying that uh they're not adding anything directly um from a 572 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:58,640 cooling perspective water input to that for the Port Washington project. 573 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:04,520 » I know there's a lot of concern there about water usage and I certainly would 574 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:08,800 be concerned because in any dry areas, even in our area, water is 575 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,160 really scarce. >> Yep, and that's why they've started to 576 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,760 make that um shift more towards that. But like I said, you you'd end up 577 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,400 dealing with those trade-offs then because now you're using more energy 578 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:22,360 because it's that closed-loop system compared to using more water. Um just 579 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,840 with the methods that they use now. >> Okay, thank you, Chris. Any other 580 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,160 questions? >> Just ma'am. 581 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,840 » Oh. So okay. 582 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:32,120 » Okay, thank you, Madam Chairman. More information. I've been on sites in Texas 583 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:36,840 where they're laying the pipe. I know people that are responsible for laying 584 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:40,160 so much length of pipe, so many sizes of pipe. They have certain number of wires 585 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,440 that have to go in and I asked them, "How do you get the wire to go through 586 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,880 when you got these 200 ft of pipe?" They say you take Walmart bags and a 587 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,320 compressor, you tie a string to the Walmart bag, suck it through, and then 588 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,720 they tie the wire on it and run it through with a rope. That's how they're 589 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:58,400 building them. 900 acre site I was on last summer about this time of the year. 590 00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:01,320 I got pictures. They go down 8-10 ft. They level everything where they connect 591 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,480 the pipes through and then they come along and everything's there. They throw 592 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:09,280 some rock on it and then they cement 4 ft high by 6 ft wide these ditches 593 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,560 and then they put a back cover on it. But all that water that is run through 594 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:16,640 there to do that, that's why I'm saying they're closing up navigable streams. 595 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:20,840 And guess what? Texas has no lakes. There's no lakes in Texas. If you play 596 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:24,200 play a little bit of trivia, you'll find out all real fast. 597 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,680 There's no lakes in Texas. All they got is the ocean. So, that is really a 598 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:31,160 problem there. And we've been dry around here, haven't we? The little blessing we 599 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,520 got this morning, I was biking at 3:30 this morning. Thank you. Thank you. I 600 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,880 think my wife sent it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Supervisor Miller. Any other 601 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:45,040 questions? All right. Supervisor Supervisor Macheski. 602 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,640 » Yes, sorry. Just to follow up on your point. Um is that accurate from your 603 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,920 understanding that there were changes where 604 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,000 I don't want I don't want to use your terms there that streams are being 605 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,800 I guess allowed to be converted that weren't in the past. 606 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:03,280 » That's more on the the DNR side of regulation. 607 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:07,320 There's been some I would say significant changes just in the DNR just 608 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:10,560 over the last decade or so. More so from conservation to 609 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,400 development. So, it could be something that they're 610 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:17,480 doing, but again, that's all in the DNR's purview. I haven't seen it 611 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,600 directly myself, but I've heard similar things that Joe has been mentioning as 612 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:24,080 well. >> And then I guess as a I don't know if 613 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:27,720 this is kind of in your area or not. Obviously, we've talked about that the 614 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,200 public can get together and say we don't want this in our community. I'm sure 615 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,320 that the companies would say that there's a lot of benefits to having 616 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,440 these and we need these to further technology and everything else. If you 617 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:42,280 have somebody who is maybe against having this in their community or is 618 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:46,720 worried about the the scale, is there anything that you would recommend the 619 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,200 average person do to take I guess personal action or is it something 620 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:54,320 that's such a global scale? Like for example, right? Like I can drive an 621 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:58,320 electric car, but if a billionaire is taking their jet every single day, what 622 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:02,000 kind of personal impact am I making? Would you say it's something on that 623 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,200 scale or are there actionable things everyday people can do? 624 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,480 » Yeah, I would say it's so integrated within our current system now just 625 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:12,760 because really it's the backbone of how the internet itself functions. So, 626 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,840 I I you need data centers to that you know, certain extent, but it's been more 627 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:21,120 of the development recently just with AI tools and everything else that is why 628 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:26,160 we've been seeing this more major shift. Um so, that's that's part of it. Um you 629 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:30,240 know, use of AI obviously then spurs additional buildings being constructed, 630 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:33,000 additional data centers. Um you know, so that's something, you know, if you're 631 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,720 not interested in using AI or you don't want to use it, um you know, that's a 632 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:41,240 particular approach that individuals could take um from that perspective. Um 633 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,760 like I said, I don't know if there's really a, you know, a large, you know, 634 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:49,040 one thing that could particularly be done um for use cases like this. 635 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,080 » Thank you. And then just one last clarification. So, if they're using less 636 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:56,200 water and using more energy, I would assume that's a non-renewable source of 637 00:42:54,160 --> 00:43:00,280 energy then that they're pulling >> So, we've been seeing a couple different 638 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:05,200 examples. Um I don't know that the one of the nuclear power facilities that um 639 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:07,680 Jonas Salk on Michigan that they had shut down. 640 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:11,160 Yeah, they were talking about starting that one back up again and with that 641 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,240 one, they would actually put a data center on the front end um before the 642 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,920 energy actually gets put out to the grid. So, it actually would power the 643 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:21,560 data center first and then the energy would go out to the grid because it 644 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:25,680 would be using so much energy. There's been a few other cases, one in Iowa, I 645 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,720 believe it was a Google facility there that they were also planning to start up 646 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,800 a nuclear facility, too, to be able to power a data center. 647 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:36,800 So, they're taking a couple different approaches um to be able to do it. 648 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:40,600 » Supervisor McCann. >> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. I I'm just 649 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:45,040 curious, Chris, is there a a design or a size or a 650 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,920 uh type of data center that you could see 651 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:54,160 being appropriate for Calumet County? I mean, I you talked a lot about the huge 652 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,160 data centers and other things. Is there a 653 00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:00,800 a business that could move to uh Calumet County that would attach 654 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,160 itself to a data center that we would find, 655 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,560 you know, fitting in with the landscape and with the general 656 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,440 population? >> Yeah, I mean, more like the typical 657 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:16,400 co-location size that we see that is more around the you know the 10 to maybe 658 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:20,440 100 MW capacity where maybe we're talking under 100,000 square feet for 659 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,520 some of these facilities. Even like the Harrison example, too, you 660 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,760 know, how many people actually knew that that was a data center that was there? 661 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,760 You know, not many people really know that. 662 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:33,160 So, more of the that particular size probably fits more for our landscape and 663 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,080 makes more sense with some of the models that they're trying to do, too, where 664 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,280 they're promoting to have more facilities so that you have more 665 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:43,360 redundancy. You've got more protections from, you know, natural disaster events. 666 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,720 You know, that may be something that is more palatable, I think, just to the 667 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:50,320 general public, even not just County Macoupin, but just Wisconsin in general. 668 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:55,920 » Yeah, I I and I think that's one of my concerns is that you create a 669 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,920 kind of a boogeyman nature to these things that that may or may not be 670 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:03,240 appropriate for what we need in our county to develop. 671 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,240 » Yep. 672 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:09,600 » Okay, thank you. Well, all right, one more time, Mr. 673 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,600 Miller. >> Chairman, 674 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:16,920 addressing the water issue, I picked up articles from down as far as 675 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:20,120 Dodgeville papers and stuff. When they when they clean up these areas, they 676 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,800 clean up the navigable streams, be glad that the water will come back with the 677 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,240 tungsten, the zinc, the lead, and graphite that comes back, it will kill 678 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,600 the sheep, it will kill the horses. They're all it's all ground fine. It it 679 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:35,280 can't blow in the wind cuz it's tough to attach to ground, okay? So, where do the 680 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:39,280 poisons go? Air, the water, or the ground, okay? 681 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,840 The Amish have a very strong upfront on this. You won't see them in Ohio or 682 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:46,080 Pennsylvania, even in parts over like Wittenberg. The the Amish are on top of 683 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,680 this. You're not coming here. And they're getting some respect, and 684 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:53,160 they're they're they're letting people know. So, if we continue to drag our 685 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:57,800 feet and don't do something, as I advocated 4 months ago, ban them from 686 00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:02,000 here, they'll fold up and go away, but their top dogs will always change 687 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:05,320 wherever from where China or Korea, or they're from, they'll always change and 688 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,920 they'll come attract you because it's they're the ones that are making the 689 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:11,120 money and they're ruining our local landscapes. Enough is enough is enough. 690 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:16,200 Thank you. >> Okay. Uh supervisor 691 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,440 » Yeah, just one more. Uh so if they're moving towards uh more closed loop 692 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,080 systems instead of the evaporative cooling, 693 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,400 the evaporative cooling leads to that going to the air because of the phase 694 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:29,880 change from water to you know moisture to to air and all that, does that lead 695 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:33,360 to the closed closed loop system releasing more heat into the ecosystem 696 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,800 via the water because of that cooling system instead of the air? Does that 697 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,960 have some other unintended effects as well? 698 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,240 » Yeah, I I think that's one of the the main factors that they end up dealing 699 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,480 with. Uh same thing with the evaporative cooling, too. Uh they end up dealing 700 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,080 with what's called blow down, which is where they end up cleaning out some of 701 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:53,440 those systems because they're dealing with that high concentration now. You've 702 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:57,600 gone from having um say 100 gallons, um the evaporation would take up roughly 75 703 00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:01,640 gallons of that, then you've got 25 gallons that are remaining, and that is 704 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,520 more concentrated minerals and just everything else that's, you know, 705 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,600 involved in it. So really, you know, you've got the trade-off and with both 706 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,760 of these particular systems, you know, which one's better? 707 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,000 You know, I don't know if you're looking more at the water conservation side, 708 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,560 obviously the closed loop style systems, but you've got that trade-off just in 709 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,240 energy consumption and just general heat output, too. 710 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:26,480 » Okay. That's it. Thank you. 711 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:30,320 A lot of questions, a lot of concerns. All right. 712 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:34,680 The next on list Todd Romenesko, county administrator, and he's going to present 713 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:38,000 how county finances shape Wisconsin human services. 714 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:57,480 » Good evening. So this is intended to be one of about 715 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,560 three um 716 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:06,160 sessions that we're going to have with the county board in an effort to provide 717 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:12,920 some education regarding overall county budgeting hopefully prior to your 718 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:17,960 November action uh on the county board vote for the budget. So, we've heard 719 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:23,720 over the years from board members that it's complex, it's confusing. So, um the 720 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,640 finance director Mike Stegbauer and I have put together um 721 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:32,440 different trainings uh to provide that information allowing you some time to 722 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:36,640 kind of digest this um section by section. 723 00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:41,400 Um and hopefully also clear up some of the confusion that um some of your 724 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:46,080 residents have had regarding tax bills and tax rates and things like that. 725 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:50,080 So, um I'm hoping this will be informal. So, 726 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:54,480 you'll just raise your hand. We will forego the um select the button for now 727 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:57,160 so it could be interactive as questions come up. 728 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:02,320 Um as I was preparing this I was thinking 729 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:07,240 about um in 2003 when I was the deputy director for human 730 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:12,360 services. In that fall of that year I prepared a 731 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:17,400 budget that I thought was a strength-based budget, data-driven, 732 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,520 uh responsible for um the county citizens. 733 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:28,520 And that was in preparation for 2004. 734 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:32,720 In January of 2004 that year we had two juvenile delinquents some board members 735 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:38,080 will remember when this happened. Two juvenile delinquents that were on 736 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:41,560 our caseload threw a large rock through a speeding vehicle. 737 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:47,880 And the judge dealt with them harshly and 738 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:51,880 sentenced them to Lincoln Hills. And 739 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:57,160 for a county budget for Lincoln Hills at the time I can't even tell you for sure 740 00:49:54,040 --> 00:50:01,240 what the amount was for one youth to be sentenced to Lincoln Hills. That was all 741 00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:06,400 paid by county dollars. Today, 742 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,400 um that's $468,000 743 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:14,400 that the county pays out of our tax levy for the one youth. 744 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:18,000 And I found myself that year in front of the county board, never 745 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:21,400 having done that before, because my director conveniently was on 746 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:25,440 a trip to Ireland when I needed to ask for money 747 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,160 because we knew the budget was going to be blown. 748 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:37,280 Over time, we prepare for one of those kids, maybe. But to try to prepare for 749 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:40,520 youth that are unknown to us at times to commit a crime and be sentenced doesn't 750 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,480 make any sense. So, it's very important for county board 751 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:49,160 members to understand the impact that that has on county finances, things that 752 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,440 are in our control, things are that aren't in our control. 753 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:56,120 » Um >> And nobody did anything wrong in that 754 00:50:53,880 --> 00:51:00,880 instant except for the kids. Right? We prepared a budget that was 755 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:05,680 responsible. Our staff followed the law. We could arguably the court made the 756 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:10,960 right decisions, let's say, by these two youth um by sentencing them. 757 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:15,760 Um but the budget was blown. So, it's important for 758 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:20,360 human services directors and county board members across the state to 759 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:24,680 understand um how that works, why that is, and if there's anything we can do 760 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,680 about it. 761 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:32,720 Um [clears throat] so, the objectives for today 762 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:36,400 or tonight, cuz I'm assuming um none of you would consider yourselves 763 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,320 experts in human services funding or county funding, right? 764 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:44,200 So, there's always a little something to learn. Yeah. 765 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:48,920 So, we will have um an understanding of Wisconsin county revenue structure, 766 00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:52,480 which is important across all departments. 767 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:56,280 Um we'll identify pressures that are unique to your human services 768 00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,080 departments. And we'll explore strategic responses 769 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:04,000 like what are you going to do about it um and why we need to do something about 770 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,000 it. 771 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,720 And because there was such interest in the data center in the interest of time, 772 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,720 I'll try to keep this high level, but I won't spend a ton of time on a lot of 773 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:20,280 these slides. Um so why the why do we face the 774 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:25,200 structural mismatch is what I decided to call that for the um 775 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:29,800 for this presentation that it's not a management problem. What I should tell 776 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:34,320 you is this will also be in prime time at the WCA conference. So I've been 777 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:39,040 asked to present this at a session on Monday, so you can feel free to skip or 778 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:43,040 if you want to really get a deep dive, you can come to that one as well. 779 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:47,560 Um so I like to say that it's not a management 780 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:52,000 problem always. It's not always a management problem. There are certain 781 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:57,680 things that we can do to try to manage expenses in certain areas within human 782 00:52:54,640 --> 00:53:02,160 services budgeting, but we live within this structural contradiction. 783 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:07,520 We live within levy limits. We live within these mandates and it's important 784 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:15,160 for us to know that we didn't create it. We can only manage so much within it. 785 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:19,560 Um but what do we need to do to be uh in front of this as far as state 786 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:24,600 legislature goes and in front of county boards. So I do this for human services 787 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:31,120 directors across the state. I've been at county boards in Eau Claire, 788 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:35,760 Langlade, Lincoln, I forget where else because county human services directors 789 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:39,960 say I don't know what to do to educate my board. They look at me like I need to 790 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:45,120 be within my budget and say how can you possibly come to a county board meeting 791 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:48,840 without a balanced budget. So, this is why we need to talk about it 792 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,840 and make sure that um we all understand. 793 00:53:54,840 --> 00:54:02,640 So, the structural mismatch. So, on the costs and demand side, 794 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,880 some of this will be familiar to some of you. 795 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:09,880 Service demand increases. So, that's not just unique to human services. That's in 796 00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:16,920 other areas. The public demands certain things um of us of counties. 797 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:21,960 Um but we say that our client acuity is rising, also. And I've been doing this 798 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:26,920 for almost 30 years, and I have seen far higher level of 799 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:32,240 acuity with our patients than I've ever seen before, much more difficult. 800 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:37,720 Uh placement costs are accelerating. So, we experience inflation 801 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:41,160 in human services, counties. So, of course, providers. 802 00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:46,200 Providers have to pay people. Providers have to build buildings. So, 803 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:51,080 the inflationary impact they pass on to us, of course. We pay for placements for 804 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:54,800 individuals within our human services departments that were required to pay 805 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:59,920 for. Uh workforce costs are climbing. You 806 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:05,360 know that. You voted on budgets, wondering about health care costs, 807 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:09,120 um advocating sometimes for uh competitive wages so we can maintain the 808 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:14,400 workforce that we have, but it costs us money to do so. 809 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:19,600 Um crisis response. So, human services crisis response is expanding. 810 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:24,920 Um we're required to do more in crisis than we had been before. 811 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:29,080 Um our mandates are growing. So, I spent a little bit of time with 812 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:33,080 the human service health and human services board 813 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:37,640 um with some new members going over just what mandates are. And all of the 814 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:41,760 mandates that we're responsible for. And if I would have done the same thing 10, 815 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:45,720 15 years ago, there would have been fewer. 816 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:50,280 So, they are growing and we talk about the unfunded mandates that exist within 817 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:54,120 human services and it's a reality. And I actually do have that same mandate and 818 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:59,360 revenue document cuz I think I've been doing it for about 15, 20 years. But 819 00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:04,160 there are more of them that exist. Um the revenue authority is flat. 820 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:08,960 So, um those who have been on the board a 821 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:14,600 long time or spent some time paying attention to what our levy limits are, 822 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:19,520 our levy is tied to net new construction. So, you'll hear that, see 823 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:24,640 that presented multiple times. You get no more funding, right? You're 824 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:29,040 not going to be able to tax for more on the levy. That's it. It's net new 825 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:34,880 construction, so it's flat. Shared revenue incremental growth. 826 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:39,960 So, we did have some progress on shared revenue in 2023. 827 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:45,280 I testified with Jonathan Delagrave, the county exec from Racine and the county 828 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:52,480 exec from Winnebago, Jon Damon at the time, pushing for legislation to um pass 829 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:57,080 the shared revenue change. And we got it, but honestly, when we 830 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,800 were there, we were talking to ourselves saying, "Well, this is all we're going 831 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:05,040 to get right now." We need more, but we're going to take 832 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:08,840 this little step with the legislature um because it's better than nothing. And it 833 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:12,480 does it's tied to inflation a little bit. 834 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:16,920 Uh but I think for Calumet County last year or for this budget, 835 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:20,680 shared revenue because of that bill may be increased for us by about 30 to 836 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:26,320 40,000 dollars in our total budget. 837 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:30,520 Um state allocations are categorical um and slow. 838 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:37,280 And what I mean by that is the state ties specific things to our funding. 839 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:41,240 Requires us to spend it only on this, which then as you can imagine ignores 840 00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,800 where maybe some of our increases are coming from. 841 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:48,800 Medicaid, [clears throat] I won't get into the difficulty around 842 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:52,360 Medicaid. It's an opportunity, certainly. 843 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:58,040 We have had some wins. That's a a revenue that we can try to generate. Um 844 00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:05,400 but there's a risk with it. Uh and county boards around the state are leery 845 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:11,720 of trusting their leadership in human services because a lot of times what it 846 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:15,520 takes to get Medicaid dollars is staff. And county boards are conservative 847 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,840 saying, "Okay, so you're losing money, but you want to add staff when the 848 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:22,320 county administrator is standing in front of us saying staff is the most 849 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:26,520 expensive thing that we have." So, it doesn't really always make sense to an 850 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:31,080 elected official, right? So, there it's opportunity to build those revenues, but 851 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:34,520 it's it's a risk that people have to be willing to take. 852 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:40,920 And there's no stabilization mechanism. There's nothing that addresses when we 853 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:45,960 have things that go up our costs go up. There's no revenue to generate to really 854 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:49,835 stabilize in emergencies such as the Lincoln Hills placements that I 855 00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:52,640 described. >> [clears throat] 856 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:56,760 » So, the revenue tools in counties and why they fall short. So, here's the 857 00:58:54,440 --> 00:59:00,440 brief history lesson of county funding in Wisconsin, 858 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:04,160 if you didn't already know. In the 1990s, 859 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:09,080 which is when I started in Calumet County, 860 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:12,040 we had rising property tax era is what I decided to call it on here because it's 861 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,480 true. Everything we did was tied to the 862 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:19,560 property tax because that's all we had. 863 00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:25,080 So, county boards were able to spend what they need, respond to urgent needs 864 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:29,440 within human services by taxing your property taxpayers. 865 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:31,520 Now, that was very, um, 866 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:39,000 I would say varying across the state depending on the county board. 867 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:43,040 Right? So, some county boards were willing to put more money in certain 868 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:46,960 things and some were not. Some were choosing to do that in law 869 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:51,400 enforcement and sheriff's office and some were willing to do it in the human 870 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:56,640 services area. But, regardless, it was all on the property taxpayer. 871 00:59:54,160 --> 01:00:02,040 Um, I list things here, you know, that there were no statutory caps, so we 872 00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:06,200 could fluctuate based on need. Um, flexibility existed for us within the 873 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:11,360 overall county budget, so we didn't have to do things that way. We didn't have to 874 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,800 send unreasonable amounts to the taxpayer because you guys have to run 875 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:19,760 for office. So, it still needed to be somewhat reasonable, but it did exist 876 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:24,400 with flexibility for us to respond to those high needs. 877 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:29,160 The 2000s, uh, is when levy limits started to emerge. So, the state started 878 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,840 looking at this saying, "The state of Wisconsin puts too much on the property 879 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:37,800 taxpayer. We have to address that in some way." 880 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:42,520 So, they started putting caps on what we could generate for revenue 881 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:49,160 and didn't change the mandates. 882 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:52,960 So, the state was intended to fully fund county human services. 883 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:57,920 There's nobody around probably that really remembers that that was the the 884 01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:02,520 the way it all started is that these certain dollar amounts, um, 885 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:06,480 not just the levy, but contracts that they had with 886 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:10,840 counties was intended to fully fund place placements like Lincoln Hills. 887 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,760 Was intended to fully fund anything we needed to do with our human services and 888 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,080 they began realizing that they couldn't 889 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:20,400 afford it as a state. Uh, so they started passing that on to 890 01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:24,480 the counties. Shared revenue was created in 2000s as 891 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:30,640 well. And it exists, but it doesn't really 892 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:36,760 move with anything. It doesn't grow with inflation, the 2000s version. 893 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:41,680 And then in 2011, we had Act 10. So, some of you 894 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:46,520 remember that, were affected by that professionally or otherwise. 895 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:50,160 Uh certainly I remember that. It became a time when the county had much more 896 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:56,800 flexibility around unions and how we paid staff and 897 01:01:54,120 --> 01:02:01,640 what we were required to do or what they were required to do, but it allowed for 898 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:04,760 some flexibility, but it also created a completely different competitive 899 01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:11,840 workforce. And in 2023, as I just described, the 900 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:15,040 shared revenue reform occurred. Um but it also came with some categorical 901 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,680 restrictions. I don't know how many of you have 902 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,960 actually really looked at the impact of the 903 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:25,840 um shared revenue reform bill in 2023. 904 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:30,240 Don't have to be embarrassed to not raise your hand, but I know that you 905 01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:35,000 were all supportive of it, right? Because it gave us some money. 906 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:38,920 But what it also did was it created all kinds of requirements for us 907 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:45,640 that said, "Well, you're only going to get this money if you agree to take over 908 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:50,360 a service from somebody else." So, what require it would require us to, 909 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:54,480 for example, if we wanted to do public health for the city of Appleton, 910 01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:58,320 we would qualify for additional revenue under the shared revenue reform. Do you 911 01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:02,000 think the city of Appleton's going to want to give us public health? 912 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,720 » No. No. 913 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,280 » And so, we hear often times from our state legislature, "Why aren't you 914 01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,800 taking advantage of it? Why aren't you taking advantage of it?" Like this was 915 01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:14,240 the this was the thing that was going to save us all kinds of money. Like we 916 01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,640 could give our services to somebody else to run. 917 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:22,200 And they could get money or we could take it and run it. So, it's in theory, 918 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:26,480 it's not a bad idea, but it's still your taxpayer's money. 919 01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:29,800 So, there's a parochial element to that that's always going to exist unless we 920 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:35,000 do something drastically different. But, that that did not 921 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:41,080 answer everything that we needed answer. Uh property tax limits levy limits the 922 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:44,920 core constraint this just shows you and you've heard it from me year after year 923 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:50,440 after year Cali Mac County's typical levy growth 924 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:54,920 because we are growing. We are one of the lucky ones. 925 01:03:52,120 --> 01:04:01,520 And we're still only at 2.5 2.8 One lucky year, I think I can 926 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:05,440 remember we were at 3%. So, that's as much as we're going to 927 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:09,760 get. Um and that's on a really good year. Our neighbors last time did not 928 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:14,680 fare as well. I think they were less than 2% around the lake with Fond du Lac 929 01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:18,400 and Winnebago. Uh disappointing because it's all tied to the net new 930 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:21,400 construction. This is important because of course our 931 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:28,040 health and human services cost of inflation is closer to 7%. 932 01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:33,600 So, revenue flat costs are going up. The levy relief for crisis years is 0%. 933 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,800 So, it doesn't matter if we're in crisis. Doesn't matter if we have high 934 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:42,920 costs. Um those revenues are not going to 935 01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,920 adjust with what we have going on. 936 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,040 I wanted to make sure you saw the inflation versus the net new 937 01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:54,160 construction. Um I do put this in your budget 938 01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:58,640 packet every year because I it's just an important visual 939 01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:03,320 for you to understand that the county net new construction, that orange line 940 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:09,040 is better that's why I'm saying we're one of the 941 01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:13,560 lucky ones than the gray line on the bottom which is your Wisconsin overall 942 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:18,720 Wisconsin net new construction, which is flat. 943 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:24,000 You look at the blue line, those are annual CPI. 944 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:30,400 And the reason I I like and hate this slide is because people misconstrue the 945 01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:33,880 ending, the '24 '25 as if oh, that gap's gotten smaller. 946 01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:41,000 It It really hasn't. The hurt on CPI occurred 947 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:45,240 '20, '21, '22, '23. It's not growing as fast, but the impact 948 01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:48,720 is still there on our expenses. We didn't get less expensive. 949 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:52,160 I mean, things aren't drastically going down. I know everybody's excited about 950 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:55,000 gas prices, but we don't all of a sudden say, oh, we're paying less for health 951 01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:59,280 insurance, or we're paying less for our employees, or we're paying less for 952 01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:02,760 providers. That's not the way it works. So, this is just a very good visual for 953 01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,240 everybody to understand. Levy limits are not sustainable 954 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:09,920 when your human services department is mandated to provide service. 955 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:17,840 Shared revenue and state aids, incremental gains, structural gaps. So, 956 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:23,240 this is just another way to show you that 957 01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:27,600 the levy shared revenue growth small. We made some minor gains with the 958 01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:32,800 shared revenue reform. That's what you see in '23 '24. 959 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:35,480 But your your HHS expenditures continue to 960 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:38,400 grow beyond the revenue amounts. 961 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:46,760 I wanted to put sales tax on here. It's not always It's not as relevant for 962 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:50,000 Calumet. But across the state, if you don't know 963 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:55,040 this, most counties that had sales tax that 964 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:59,000 have had it forever pay for operations. 965 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:04,040 I would tell you that's not a sustainable model. It's not a good idea, 966 01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:08,760 but they did it many, many years ago out of need because the levy limits 967 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:13,440 occurred. They were already beyond what they could pay for. Calumet, what I else 968 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:18,360 I'll give all the credit to everybody that I inherited it from, had a fiscally 969 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:24,520 conservative board that really maintained a very good 970 01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:29,800 balance for us to come in and then make sales tax only about capital projects, 971 01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:33,320 not about operations. So, this is not intended for you to 972 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:36,960 think, "Oh gosh, now he's thinking operations should be paid with sales tax 973 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:40,680 money." That's not that at all. But, it is the reality across the state 974 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:48,360 except for the few of us that were around the lake and Waukesha, 975 01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:52,440 I think was one that didn't. Um they are in an advantage 976 01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:57,240 per se over us uh because they're taking those sales 977 01:07:54,160 --> 01:08:01,920 tax dollars and applying them as they need because it grows with inflation. 978 01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:05,720 You've seen our sales tax number. It's pretty good. 979 01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:08,880 Um but, this is a reality across the state in other counties that human 980 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:13,200 services face in county boards have to decide how to apply those sales tax 981 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:18,480 dollars cuz they actually will pay for people, positions, placements, things 982 01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,480 within HHS. 983 01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:23,920 So, there's a there's a structural divide there as well. 984 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,920 I talked a little bit about Lincoln Hills. It's important for you to 985 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:35,080 understand the mandates at a very high level. 986 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:39,640 I just need you to know all of the things that you see on this slide right 987 01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:44,080 now are what we pay attention to on a regular basis because these will break 988 01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:49,000 the budget. Uh we may come in like I did in 2003 and 989 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:52,400 think we have a good plan. We have one placement for Lincoln Hills and other 990 01:08:50,759 --> 01:08:57,480 placements that are necessary, but we don't control where people move, 991 01:08:55,240 --> 01:09:03,040 where they decide to live. So, a very expensive 992 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:09,960 youth or an adult could live in Fond du Lac, Manitowoc, Winnebago, Sheboygan, 993 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:13,680 Milwaukee and move here and they are now our financial 994 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:17,200 responsibility and I never even knew they were existed. 995 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:20,560 How many people remember Ray Brock, County Board member? 996 01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:24,680 » Ray Brock. >> Ray Brock was the one at that meeting in 997 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:28,960 2003 that said and he was a he was a good 998 01:09:26,799 --> 01:09:32,319 friend of my dad's. He pointed at me and he said, "You 999 01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:38,120 should have known with today's technology." Now, this is 1000 01:09:34,480 --> 01:09:40,759 2003, okay? With today's technology, you should have known that that was going to 1001 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,560 happen. And I said, "Based on what? The 1002 01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:48,680 actuaries that we have trying to help us to determine we're a county, we're not 1003 01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:53,160 an insurance company, right?" But it just it just showed me that we have a 1004 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:56,880 lot to teach and to say that, "Well, I couldn't I 1005 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:59,640 can't even predict who's going to move here." 1006 01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:04,960 And we have had that within the last couple of years where we've had very 1007 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:09,000 expensive people relocate to Calumet County and they're on your dime. 1008 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,600 Uh and you're obviously not going to say, "Well, you should move back or find 1009 01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:16,560 a way for it." We don't play those games ethically or morally. We're going to 1010 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:23,280 provide the service that's mandated, but we don't control where they move. So, it 1011 01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:23,280 becomes a very tricky situation. 1012 01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,818 Yeah. >> [laughter] 1013 01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:33,280 » So, uh we also don't control the courts. You know, the courts make decisions. I 1014 01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:37,440 got the call I think it was last week. 1015 01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:40,880 Uh one of our youth committed a serious crime. 1016 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:44,640 The um District Attorney's office called and said, "Well, I want you to hear it 1017 01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:48,160 from me directly that I am going to recommend that we blow your budget 1018 01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:51,560 because there's a placement that needs to occur at Lincoln Hills with a young 1019 01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:54,320 man and probably his brother, so that's two possibly. 1020 01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:58,440 Um and we don't have any control over that 1021 01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:02,240 and it's hard for us to go before a judge and recommend something else in 1022 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:05,520 certain situations when it's just dangerous for the individual to be in 1023 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:10,840 the community. We try, um, but we don't have control 1024 01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:14,160 over the court's decision. I tell that to the judge often. I said, "You're the 1025 01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:18,320 judge. We have We don't have to like your 1026 01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:23,000 decisions, but we have to live by them, follow them, and in some instances we 1027 01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:27,800 have to pay for them as well financially." 1028 01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:31,840 Um, mental health cases in-patient costs aren't as bad, but there's a funding gap 1029 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:35,400 for crisis. Um, 1030 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:41,240 law enforcement is affected by human services, um, if funding is an issue and 1031 01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:46,360 staffing is an issue because they're the guys that are out there with our mental 1032 01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:51,040 health patients, assessing for safety, waiting for us to find placements in 1033 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:54,520 hospital settings that are virtually impossible to get, 1034 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:59,200 um, if they're unwilling to take an individual. 1035 01:11:56,080 --> 01:12:04,360 Um, workforce economics, that I think you're familiar with. Um, health care 1036 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:09,160 costs, uh, drive what we do. Um, we had this year was the first year 1037 01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:15,320 that I think I've been doing this job that it's been a 0% increase. 1038 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:20,360 Um, which I mean, saves saves us a lot of money. We didn't get a reduction, but 1039 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:24,640 it's better than the 10, 12, you know, 15% increases we've been experiencing. 1040 01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:32,960 This is out of the green book. So, I've showed this So, if you haven't 1041 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:37,760 seen the green book yet, you will. Everybody will get one. We, 1042 01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:41,080 um, talk from some of the items within the green book 1043 01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:45,440 at budget time. I have shared this slide with county 1044 01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:49,080 boards when I've presented human services funding. This one's probably 1045 01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:52,760 really hard for you to see. But, 1046 01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:56,240 I re- I rearranged it with the permission of 1047 01:12:54,560 --> 01:13:00,440 um Forward Analytics who puts the book out. I called and said, "I want to 1048 01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:06,360 rearrange the slide because I want to show lowest per capita 1049 01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:10,240 to highest per capita because every time I've gone to a county board 1050 01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:16,040 where they've been struggling with human services financing they want to know 1051 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:22,120 "Why does Racine have it all figured out and only pays $161 per capita? And 1052 01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:25,120 what's wrong with Menominee when it's $799 1053 01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:28,920 per capita?" So, this only tells you one like 1054 01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:33,120 Yeah. James is like, "Yeah, right. You were 1055 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,120 there." 1056 01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:38,080 Exactly. Right. >> [laughter] 1057 01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,720 » Yes. So, it doesn't tell the whole story. 1058 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:49,840 Right? We're always in the middle. We're about 387. I don't know what we are in 1059 01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:53,600 here. 378 transposed. 378 on this one. So, this just tells a little bit of a 1060 01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:58,240 story. It doesn't tell the whole story. You understand that with data of all 1061 01:13:55,600 --> 01:14:01,840 sorts, right? So, different things within tell a different story, but what 1062 01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:05,280 board member what jumps out at board members or what jumps out at the public 1063 01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:11,720 is, "How can this be less money? How can this be less expensive?" Um 1064 01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:16,440 and across the state human services accounts for about 1/3 of the entire 1065 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:22,120 county budget county by county. It's it's the most volatile and the most 1066 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:25,720 expensive thing that you have going. And it's 1067 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:28,880 seriously affected by how counties are funded in the state of Wisconsin. And 1068 01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:32,400 it's important for you just to have an understanding of that and then what we 1069 01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:36,320 can do about it. Here's something you're also you see this one every year from me 1070 01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:41,200 at budget time. And I show this to human services 1071 01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:47,000 directors because I think sometimes human services gets a bad rap because of 1072 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:51,280 mandates. You can set a budget for the sheriff's office 1073 01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:54,760 and they can pretty much keep it. Stick to it. 1074 01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:59,000 Uh because it's really mostly staff. I mean, we made the decision on the jail 1075 01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:03,520 and that's an expensive venture, but we knew it. Certain fixed costs are going 1076 01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:07,080 to go with that. But their staffing, unless there's significant overtime, but 1077 01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:10,240 that's typically because they're lower staffed overall. 1078 01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:15,320 So, they have to make up for it in corrections or on patrol. But it's a 1079 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:21,400 pretty fixed amount. But typically, they cost you more on the total tax levy. 1080 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:26,360 Um so, they're 8 and 1/2 million. Health and Human Services here is 5 million. 1081 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:30,400 That's assuming that HHS doesn't jump up another million dollars 1082 01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:33,280 above budget because of those Lincoln Hills placements. 1083 01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:41,320 So, what happens? 1084 01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:41,320 Yeah, go ahead. 1085 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:51,680 Yes. It's now $1,268 1086 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:56,080 per day per child or per youth. The state legislature 1087 01:15:53,640 --> 01:16:02,920 in this budget wanted to at least double that rate. 1088 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:07,520 Which would have busted many counties financially. So, when our legislators 1089 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:10,280 come here like Ron Tusler and I tell them, "Do you realize what 1090 01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:14,160 that's doing?" Cuz that's a state facility. So, they're they're paying 1091 01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:19,200 themselves. But we're paying them the additional 1092 01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:22,640 rate. So, Governor Evers vetoed it thankfully 1093 01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:26,440 and kept us at the rate we're at now. That's the same amount we were before. 1094 01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:30,280 Their costs are up. Um they 1095 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:35,360 just like anything else, right? It's dangerous. They've had some major 1096 01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:39,840 uh crimes occur with staff and against 1097 01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:43,960 staff. Physical, 1098 01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:48,120 uh I know of a man that worked there that had a brain injury because of being 1099 01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:52,000 attacked by a youth. So, it becomes 1100 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:57,040 not so popular to say we're not going to pay for the higher costs, 1101 01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:59,840 but we're at We won this one. Um 1102 01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:02,840 if we didn't have to have them to that extent and the state could figure out 1103 01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:05,960 how to do it, it would be better. We've pushed back 1104 01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:11,080 about why are we paying for it. We've pushed back about you need to pay for 1105 01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:16,920 Meet us halfway, pay for more. And this is all funded This is in the weeds a 1106 01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:22,560 bit, but it's all funded by youth aids, which 1107 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:27,480 was supposed to pay 100% of our costs, never has since I've been here, and it 1108 01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:32,280 is the worst funding uh that we've ever received as counties 1109 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:36,320 for um corrections type placements. It's 1110 01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:42,960 It's just not grown. The state's unwilling to move it up in any way. 1111 01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,960 Did you have a question? 1112 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:51,560 That's been going on probably for 12 years or more. 1113 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,080 Yep. 1114 01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:05,120 Well, so we were We were slotted to have one 1115 01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:09,040 in our area in Brown County, and then Brown County got us all 1116 01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:14,400 together and said, "Okay, who's willing to do this and participate?" Well, they 1117 01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:18,200 wanted us to to pay for it. And I was I was one that was unwilling, 1118 01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:22,280 and then eventually Brown County became unwilling to do so. 1119 01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:28,680 Um I think the intent of that was to get the youth 1120 01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:32,680 in facilities closer to their homes. Uh because connection to their parents 1121 01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:38,280 and their family and improving things, as you know, gets them home sooner and 1122 01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:42,040 uh changes behavior, you would hope. The real intention of Lincoln Hills is a 1123 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:45,040 safety and containment. And once you get beyond the safety and 1124 01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:49,240 containment need, what are you going to do? They have to go back out into the 1125 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:52,560 community. So, it requires a family 1126 01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:59,200 of some sort. And if they don't have a family, a placement of some sort. Um, 1127 01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:03,360 but it's it's not really moved because it takes a lot of money to do that. 1128 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:10,200 Yeah, that's what I think she was indicating in the southern part. So, um, 1129 01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:15,120 there's more to be done on that. I am really reluctant to be overly 1130 01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:19,160 supportive of county funding state institutional placements. 1131 01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,120 I mean, building a state institution that we're going to have to pay for it 1132 01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:26,640 doesn't make any sense to me. If they were to fix the funding model, 1133 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:30,640 um, or if they were just to build it in our area for the right reason, then I 1134 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:35,640 think we could get behind it. But we under And then I can go back and show 1135 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:40,520 the chart again, under completely flat revenue, 1136 01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:45,960 it makes no sense for them to look to us to help pay for these things when we're 1137 01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:49,920 barely paying for the placements and and service to the clients that we have 1138 01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,920 right now. 1139 01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:56,920 Yep. 1140 01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:03,760 Trempealeau, yep. So, that's one of the behavioral health ones. So, here the 1141 01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:07,040 mechanism, that's why when I say it's not always a it's not a management 1142 01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:10,360 problem or it's not always a management problem. 1143 01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:14,920 Sometimes directors, I mean, they're responsible 1144 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:18,640 ultimately for the bottom line of that budget, right? You guys will hold them 1145 01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:23,120 responsible for that. Sometimes they're unaware 1146 01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:26,800 of placements at Trempealeau ahead of time. 1147 01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:31,160 And that's I think inexcusable. I think they need to be made aware. They need to 1148 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:35,360 have systems in place that because then they should be in front of the board if 1149 01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:39,680 they need to be or their boss, the exec or the administrator if they need to be. 1150 01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:44,320 And sometimes the the place the placement's appropriate. I mean, every 1151 01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:48,920 time it occurs it should be appropriate. But we here, I will tell you, we are 1152 01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:52,480 working on discharge planning before they even get there. 1153 01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:57,600 Because facilities 1154 01:20:54,400 --> 01:21:02,280 as I'm sure you will understand want certain placements 1155 01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:06,440 to keep their business going. And we need to be very aware that yes, 1156 01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:11,480 they're not going to be telling us something that's not a benefit to the 1157 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:16,480 patient, right? But they're also not moving as fast as we want them to 1158 01:21:14,440 --> 01:21:21,520 on some things. Because ultimately the goal is community 1159 01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:24,560 living. Community placements. That's another 1160 01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:28,400 thing I inherited here in our chronically mentally ill 1161 01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:31,560 um system from Mary Kennedy who was the director here, 1162 01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:37,320 um had no placements for our CSP. They were 1163 01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:40,320 all in their own independent community placements. 1164 01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,760 Uh they worked hard and they staffed up. That's why our staffing levels look good 1165 01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:47,680 here, but we don't pay for those big placements because eventually 1166 01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:51,920 the people need to be living in their own community and contributing to their 1167 01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:55,160 own community independently. That's the right thing to do by the 1168 01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:59,400 patients. Um 1169 01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,400 So, 1170 01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:07,840 what actually happens when we have these financial issues, we can't cut mandates 1171 01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:13,000 because we have no control over them. So, we don't go after mandated services. 1172 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:17,160 Um we can't stop placements that are necessary or crisis. 1173 01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:23,840 Um but what we do 1174 01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:28,040 is things like hiring freezes. So, if we have vacancies, we hold off on 1175 01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:33,080 position. We rely on those vacancy savings. If we 1176 01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:37,440 know there's a high placement and we know we have vacancies, we may not 1177 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:42,960 actively recruit for a period of time, 6 months, sometimes a year. I've had place 1178 01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:48,320 positions open for 2 years waiting for expenses to turn around. 1179 01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:52,760 We delay on IT and infrastructure modernization. 1180 01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:56,480 We have had the same system that we were the first county to 1181 01:22:54,160 --> 01:23:01,960 purchase it from Dane County Mental Health Center. I was a brand new 1182 01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:05,440 employee here and I was charged with IT modernization. 1183 01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,440 Now I laugh because I'm like the last person you'd want to ask. 1184 01:23:07,882 --> 01:23:11,440 » [laughter] >> I've been promoted to the level of 1185 01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:15,000 incompetence, like they don't let you do things IT related anymore. 1186 01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:19,680 Right? I think I asked Chris, could you tee up my presentation cuz I don't even 1187 01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:26,600 know how to find it on the laptop. Um, but we've had the same system. We 1188 01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:30,680 still have that one since 1990 7. Um, increased caseloads per worker, 1189 01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:35,400 that's what we do when we hold staff vacancies or we do hiring freezes. And 1190 01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:39,720 then we burn out and then we have the turnover cycle. Um, 1191 01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:43,680 the hidden cost to those things, of course, 1192 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:47,600 increased jail utilization. How many of you heard 1193 01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:51,600 Sheriff's office say, "All of our inmates have mental health issues." 1194 01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:55,280 "All of our inmates have drug and alcohol issues." 1195 01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:59,840 Yeah, well, it's a direct result of the state doesn't fund human services 1196 01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:03,520 treatment staffing levels. They end up in the jail, in the 1197 01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:08,160 correction system. There was a Medicaid managed care study done in a southern 1198 01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:14,440 state that's going to escape me now. Um, that showed increased utilization of 1199 01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:18,400 jails because of managed care for mental health in their Medicaid system. I mean, 1200 01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:25,040 it is just a fact. Um, emergency room hospital costs. So, 1201 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:29,800 we impact the system costs for hospitals because they're spending a lot of time 1202 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:34,720 with our individuals in emergency rooms or with our elderly that are on 1203 01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:38,160 emergency protective placements. Law enforcement time I explained to you 1204 01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:43,080 a little bit. School disruptions, so we have youth delinquents in schools 1205 01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:48,000 causing issues for principals, guidance, police school 1206 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:51,240 liaison officers, the hidden cost to those um 1207 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:57,040 could be related back to visible response and cuts in service. 1208 01:24:53,880 --> 01:25:00,400 Um we always defer prevention because the state never pays us for 1209 01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:04,280 prevention. And we all know that preventive care, 1210 01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,800 just like anything in the medical system, human services, health and human 1211 01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:13,000 services is no different. That's where the money should go, but 1212 01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:19,240 instead of Forget how we say that. Instead of um 1213 01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:22,080 cutting the things to prevent the fire, we're cutting the things that put the 1214 01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:25,240 fires out because we end up paying for these deep 1215 01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:28,440 end costs because we don't have the prevention uh money to do anything about 1216 01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:32,920 it. I have not recommended prevention 1217 01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:36,600 programs here, and we're pretty We're usually in a pretty good place 1218 01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:41,520 financially. We have some time, sometimes if caseloads are low, 1219 01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:44,480 that we can use some prevention. Real prevention programs is what I'm talking 1220 01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:48,720 about. Um and then the community trust, I mean, 1221 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:53,440 across the state um health and human services struggles 1222 01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:57,080 in certain areas because they're not responsive and they're not preventing, 1223 01:25:55,280 --> 01:26:00,640 and they feel like um the community members sometimes or 1224 01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:07,440 family members are thinking that we're not doing what we are meant to do. 1225 01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:12,440 Um Medicaid tool, I won't get into this with you tonight, but um other than 1226 01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:16,160 maybe just the risk part of it. So, we go after For those of you who 1227 01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:20,920 know me, I will go after every Medicaid dollar that we've ever had. I've been a 1228 01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:28,520 part of state developing Medicaid programs to benefit benefit counties. 1229 01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:33,640 And whether or not that's always a great thing to say out loud, it depends 1230 01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:38,280 because some of those Medicaid dollars that we grab, it's very 1231 01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:42,000 complicated and difficult to get them. Um but we'll go after everyone because 1232 01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:47,120 that's all we have. But staff have to 1233 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:50,880 hired at times to do that. And so we have to chase those dollars. And we 1234 01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:56,240 sometimes have to expand a service to be able to get Medicaid revenue, which 1235 01:26:53,600 --> 01:27:00,080 seems kind of counter indicated. Um and audit exposure. 1236 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:03,160 There are many times when the state's like, well, 1237 01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:06,440 yeah, we said that you could do that, but now that the Medicaid audit's 1238 01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:09,280 occurring, we're going to need to claw back some dollars. This never happened 1239 01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:12,880 here. Um we've never had to pay anything back, 1240 01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:16,920 but Marinette and some other counties around us have had to pay back 1241 01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:22,080 audit dollars, which I don't know is entirely all of their their fault. 1242 01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:31,120 Um so what actually needs to happen, and this is we'll get into this more at the 1243 01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:34,920 WCA conference, what we need elected officials to do to Paul's question about 1244 01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:40,920 have you ever fought back about Lincoln Hills and the rate, 1245 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:44,360 we need levy limit modernization in the state of Wisconsin. 1246 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:50,600 100%. I know you know that, um but it is such 1247 01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:55,520 a bigger issue as far as who we serve and what we have to do. 1248 01:27:52,680 --> 01:28:01,160 We don't have choices in A and health and human services. We don't have a 1249 01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:06,040 choice to allow a person to continue to be dangerous in the community. 1250 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:10,480 Um we don't. I mean, we're required by a law to respond to that individual, 1251 01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:14,880 essentially take away their rights, put them in a hospital, and manage them 6 1252 01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:20,920 months a year, maybe longer. 1253 01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:24,760 Um and it requires money to do that. So, um levy growth is not 1254 01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:27,520 um eliminating the levy limit is not going 1255 01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:31,520 to happen. So, we take the little wins that we can 1256 01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:35,760 get, but we need something um to recognize that mandate growth and costs 1257 01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:39,760 are going up. So, we need a revenue somehow 1258 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:44,840 beyond just the property taxpayer. Um human services can do things. Part of 1259 01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:49,560 this was done for directors, so those slides are still here, but they can do 1260 01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:53,800 things that they're not right now, which is statewide contract negotiations for 1261 01:28:52,440 --> 01:28:57,240 providers. So, not necessarily Lincoln Hills 1262 01:28:55,440 --> 01:29:01,480 because they're a state um 1263 01:28:58,480 --> 01:29:07,480 correction facility, but other private organizations, we can negotiate with 1264 01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:10,800 them um to create more favorable contracts. 1265 01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:16,000 It's um it's a tricky balance that we have to do 1266 01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:19,000 because of course we need the providers. So, you need providers to be able to 1267 01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:24,240 make money, right? They have to be able to sustain be sustainable um to serve 1268 01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:28,720 our clients, so we can't um cut them too much cuz otherwise it uh we 1269 01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:33,320 don't have the placements available. Stabilization fund, possibly 1270 01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:40,400 um we could advocate for that. That's a human services thing. 1271 01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:44,000 Um WCA, of course, um I think we have to have a unified message across all 72 1272 01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:46,840 counties. I think when Alice and I have been talking about things like data 1273 01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:51,080 centers, um 1274 01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:55,400 WCA seems to be willing to do things more to collect all 72 counties 1275 01:29:53,600 --> 01:30:00,320 together. It's difficult to be a counties association when you have 72 1276 01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:04,960 counties with varying opinions. Um but we need to kind of find places to meet 1277 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:08,680 in the middle. Legislative alignment, levy reform, 1278 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:12,600 we have to do that. I wanted to show you this rate this 1279 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:17,720 chart. Um I don't remember if I've ever shown this 1280 01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:20,600 to you at budget time, but I've realized um after the last budget, I'm definitely 1281 01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:23,600 going to. Because a board member called me and 1282 01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:28,320 said, "Wait a minute. You told me the rate went down. 1283 01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:36,160 And I'm getting calls from my constituents about the tax rate. 1284 01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:41,200 And this is a very important visual for you to see and understand why state 1285 01:30:38,440 --> 01:30:46,880 legislators never want to change the levy limit. 1286 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:49,760 Because that red line is your county tax levy. 1287 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:54,000 Flat. Right? Like I've shown in previous 1288 01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:58,640 charts. That orange is the equalized value. 1289 01:30:56,400 --> 01:31:02,120 So, equalized value of your property owners, you've seen your bill, 1290 01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:09,520 your tax bill. The blue line is the tax rate. 1291 01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:14,520 So, they can come before you and you can go to your constituents and 1292 01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:18,600 say, "We've cut the tax rate." Yeah, well, that's how the math works. 1293 01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:21,720 That's what I want board members to see because Yeah, you're laughing, but it's 1294 01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:27,360 true. It's because of the levy limit. We can't 1295 01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:33,200 raise it. The valuation goes up 1296 01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:38,920 and the rate goes down. So, they aren't going to be willing to 1297 01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:43,920 change that unless there's a significant change in their perspective of the tax 1298 01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:48,560 rates all that matters. Because that's This chart doesn't change 1299 01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:53,920 under This is a result of the levy limit calculation. 1300 01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:58,480 This is why it is the way it is. It shows that your property tax rates 1301 01:31:56,040 --> 01:32:02,640 are less, but the equalized value in in most recent years continues to go up, so 1302 01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:06,200 sometimes those bills go up even though the rates go down, and that's not even 1303 01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:09,640 to um bring into the calculation about school on that tax bill. 1304 01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:15,920 But, that's just an awareness of the political climate. I don't think we're 1305 01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:20,560 going to get the state legislature to change that. So, we have to go after 1306 01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:24,080 something else. Um 1307 01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:26,800 this gets in what directors can actually do. 1308 01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:32,120 Um but, we have structural constraints. Um 1309 01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:36,360 you've heard us say this before. It's It's much more of a reality in 1310 01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:40,640 certain areas where there's mandates, which is human services. 1311 01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:47,400 Um it affects other departments, of course, because if Chris wants to add 1312 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:51,680 capacity to GIS, he may have to wait a couple years until Health and Human 1313 01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:55,800 Services levy is less dependent on you mean the mandate shrink. So, it affects 1314 01:32:54,040 --> 01:33:00,680 decisions that we make to other departments. 1315 01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:04,200 Um that are on the tax levy. History of county funding is a history 1316 01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:08,440 of mandates outpacing revenue tools. It's a reality. We need to be talking 1317 01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:11,520 about it, and we need to share the data. We need a new revenue 1318 01:33:10,480 --> 01:33:16,160 um beyond shared revenue reform. 1319 01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:20,640 We need to provide the data. We need to collaborate as counties. 1320 01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:24,480 We do some things with human services day at the capital. That was Alice's. 1321 01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:28,080 So, we do go and advocate, which is a wonderful thing. But, I know I've been 1322 01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:33,080 there with some counties that are bringing their own message 1323 01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:38,720 because it affects them much more than the statewide um advocacy does. So, 1324 01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:43,320 we have to be better about that. Um 1325 01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:48,480 it's the end of That's the fast high-level version of county funds and 1326 01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,480 HHS. 1327 01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:58,360 And you'll get more. I know you're looking forward to it. 1328 01:33:56,520 --> 01:34:00,800 You'll get the countywide one. >> Next. 1329 01:34:54,280 --> 01:35:00,000 » And mine's broke. Mine's broke. I can't vote. 1330 01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:39,920 » Yes. Um I called Todd earlier today, or I 1331 01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:45,280 actually called Emmy, and he said he would give me like an open mic. Um 1332 01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:48,400 my wife was diagnosed with cancer last August. 1333 01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:52,000 They took uh most of the month of September and October to decide what to 1334 01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:55,560 treat her with. >> Supervisor Miller, we need to deal with 1335 01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:59,440 this motion first. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know. 1336 01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:01,960 » I please you voted your ballot so it's >> Joe, we're just trying to carry you on. 1337 01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:08,120 Okay. >> All right. We passed yes, 14 yes, seven 1338 01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:12,680 absent so that has been approved. The next appointment is the re- 1339 01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:20,520 re-appointment of Kevin Fischer whose term will expire June 30th, 2026 and his 1340 01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:24,280 new term will expire July 30th, 2029. I need a motion to adopt. 1341 01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:28,160 » I was just saying I don't know. 1342 01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:36,040 » Someone give me a motion. >> voted on all of them. 1343 01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:36,040 » Oh, we did. 1344 01:36:36,200 --> 01:36:42,360 We did? I did not ask for that. Okay. All right, then I guess it's all 1345 01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,880 approved. >> be okay. 1346 01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:48,680 » Okay. All right. 1347 01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:51,680 Now we have an appointment while you did that one, too. 1348 01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:55,160 Lynette Malburg? >> It It's the way it was set up. 1349 01:36:53,360 --> 01:37:01,240 » All right, then all three of them were approved. Lynette Malburg was gone to 1350 01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:06,800 the zoning board of adjustments and her term will expire July June 30th, 2029. 1351 01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:11,880 » to confirm that there's no objection to that. 1352 01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:14,320 » Is there any objection to any of those? Seeing none. 1353 01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:18,040 » Okay. I just We just want to make sure that 1354 01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:22,560 » They're approved. Okay. All right. 1355 01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:25,920 No, we aren't going to meet in July. >> Yep, so just go in the you know, right. 1356 01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:29,240 So you don't have to We don't have to indicate that at this point anyway. 1357 01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:34,000 » All right, the next regular meeting will be July. Whether we'll have one or not, 1358 01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:38,680 you will be notified. So consideration of adjust- additional 1359 01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:43,320 items uh for the next board meeting, does anyone have anything they'd like to 1360 01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,320 add? 1361 01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:52,320 If you do, please let myself know or or Todd. And Supervisor Miller, you had 1362 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:53,840 something you wanted to to 1363 01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:57,680 address. >> Okay, thank you. My hearing aids are 1364 01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:01,360 about run out, so I'm not hearing very well. I've had them in since probably 1365 01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:05,800 4:30 this morning. So, as I said before, my wife had to 1366 01:38:03,480 --> 01:38:10,120 deal with cancer a second time. And through all of this, I started 1367 01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:14,840 trying to get as much done with the Veterans Administration. Michelle and 1368 01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:18,920 Kevin been very helpful. So, I'll I'll cut straight on that. Her family was 1369 01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:22,600 tremendous to get through this. I got kids that live in five states out of 10. 1370 01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:27,160 One deceased. So, we're making it through. Everybody's doing okay. 1371 01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:31,880 My one son from Texas is still up here. And so, we'll be okay. So, VA 1372 01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:36,040 Michelle got appointments for me, things I should have been doing 60 years ago if 1373 01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:39,560 they'd have had their act together. So, I get stuff like I made an 1374 01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:43,440 appointment at Grand Chute. I had to go there to make it cuz we can't get 1375 01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:46,040 through on the phone. Am I too loud? >> No, you're good. 1376 01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:49,720 » So, my neighbor Rick has the same problem. We can't connect. So, we go 1377 01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:54,440 there to get an appointment. That very afternoon, they call me from VA, and 1378 01:38:51,680 --> 01:39:00,080 that would be on the 26th of May, saying that you have an appointment in Ionia 1379 01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:04,520 for your hearing test. I says, "11:00 there and 3:00 at Grand Chute, it going 1380 01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:10,600 to work. It going to work." So, they switched it to 1381 01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:14,600 to Monday, and we went to Menominee. And I had a guy drive me cuz I spent some 1382 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:18,640 long days. Okay? Had a guy drive me. So, for 31 minutes, I'm in a booth. I worked 1383 01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:23,160 at a mill way out here just south of This particular time, don't sit down. 1384 01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:27,680 They throw them in your ears. Okay? Now, when the when the when the beep comes 1385 01:39:25,440 --> 01:39:31,560 up, you have to say the word. Used to press a button. 1386 01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:34,520 I've got Agent Orange symptoms here ever since Vietnam. I've never gotten any 1387 01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:38,240 compensation. We might be getting close. So, anyway, 1388 01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:41,640 say the word. I need some water, man. I need some water. At least four times 1389 01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:45,440 through that 12 minutes. Then the next one, 1390 01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:50,600 say the word girl. So, you got to say say the word lake. Same thing, water. 1391 01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:54,880 Used to be able to press the button. I'm sitting down, okay. 1392 01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:57,960 Oh, about 12 minutes of that, and gal's outside the tube just taking a 1393 01:39:56,080 --> 01:40:01,600 recording. And then the last one again is the little more deeper thing, first 1394 01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:05,320 your left ear and then your right ear. And you got to say yes. You got to say 1395 01:40:04,440 --> 01:40:08,880 yes. Man, really drained me out. So, 31 1396 01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:13,720 minutes in there. Let's get out of here. We go home. So, I submit my mileage. 1397 01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:18,640 They let us know they pay 41 cents a mile, way behind the 77. So, the 217 1398 01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:21,960 miles, yeah, a week later I got the check. I wouldn't cash it right away, it 1399 01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:28,360 was good. We burned it in the bar. So, anyway, took it. So, the next thing 1400 01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:32,760 then, last week Thursday, I get a call from a guy in Texas scheduling 1401 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:38,040 appointments, paperwork from Indiana for the VA, saying that I have an 1402 01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:42,520 appointment on the 15th. So, this was on Thursday of last week. 1403 01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:47,480 I have appointment on the 15th in X, you know, XONIA. It's still in my 1404 01:40:44,480 --> 01:40:49,560 Oconomowoc. Okay, so that is my um 1405 01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:57,320 Yeah, my uh PSTS, okay. Never had that. Never had that in 60 years. 1406 01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:59,480 I spent Vietnam killing a lot of gooks because that's what we were trained to 1407 01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:03,280 do is kill. We never had one session at all was to 1408 01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:06,840 come back into society. When I extended over there, yeah, I I 1409 01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:09,960 did it because I had guys that couldn't leave. I was pretty strong. I made rank 1410 01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:14,320 pretty good. I would see guys get killed. So, I did pretty good. I stayed 1411 01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:17,160 an extra 4 months and 4 days. So, 1412 01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:20,280 out of all of this, that's the only one thing thing I got is my wife. I met 1413 01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:24,760 through a guy that flunked out of Sacramento State. He was about a month 1414 01:41:22,480 --> 01:41:27,760 behind in basic training. Eventually over there, somebody said, "Hey, there's 1415 01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:32,080 a guy over there that's looking for a Wisconsin guy." He had some gals take 1416 01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:36,800 her APO addresses that he flunked out of college and write to because he got a 1417 01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:42,560 discharge when his father got killed in an auto accident while he was waiting to 1418 01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:45,840 come to Nam. Okay? So, Peg and I met 13 and 1/2 months later. We wrote letters. 1419 01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:50,320 Um I found the last one that she wrote to 1420 01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:55,120 me, and we also the grandkids found the last one I wrote to her 1421 01:41:52,120 --> 01:42:00,720 8 days before we got married in '69. So, we produced only 10 kids. 1422 01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:04,080 Had a big party on the 50th anniversary. We got dozens of cards showing Peggy do 1423 01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:07,200 50 more. Yeah, we were 1424 01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:12,400 deeply attached. She was from California. She worked as a G4 as a 1425 01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:15,520 sophomore in college. Back then it was generals from 1426 01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:18,760 Washington would tell them ordered us ordered out supplies, military uniform. 1427 01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:22,480 So, they would they would actually have to type out the invoice and do it. 1428 01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:26,520 That's what she was good at, okay? Uh she took me horseback riding. We got 1429 01:42:24,080 --> 01:42:30,200 pictures of that. First time ever. She had a trained horse. And if I 1430 01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:33,640 smarted off, she says, "Do it again. I'll have the horse take the tail and 1431 01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:37,600 knock your head off." Well, it did. Bless you. Yeah. So, good memories. 1432 01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:41,880 She's in a better place. She suffered immensely from December on. 1433 01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:46,400 One test after another. Let's switch to chemo. What we're doing. Let's do this. 1434 01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:50,880 Let's take her to Madison for radiation. She was treated like a used tire. 1435 01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:56,440 Pretty much. Yeah. And I remember going in to Encircle AMC, 1436 01:42:54,000 --> 01:43:01,480 Theta Clark five different times from October emergencies because she had 1437 01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:05,640 problems with her liver and all of that retained. So, they had to start pumping 1438 01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:10,320 it out every four or five days. 5.75, 6.75. And it was a matter of sometimes 1439 01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:13,480 they had to be pretty delicate. They had to get the layer body right so they 1440 01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:17,400 didn't injure the other organs. They they physically went in and siphoned it 1441 01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:20,240 out four or five six hours. And then they had to start putting 1442 01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:24,280 protein back in because she was getting too weak. So, they had to keep her extra 1443 01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:27,840 hours and and put that form of protein back in. 1444 01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:31,520 So, what are we going to do? So, the kids got just just baffled. It's like, 1445 01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:36,040 "What are we going to do? What can we count on? It's in doctor's hands. 1446 01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:39,840 And some some fail. So, my wife failed on other treatments, you know. 1447 01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:43,960 But, I've seen boards, unfortunately, all these centers have like 40 boards. 1448 01:43:41,480 --> 01:43:47,080 We do it every Friday, and by 7:30, 8:00, 39 of the 40 are all lit up. In 1449 01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:50,720 other words, people are in treatment. And a lot of people know that. They're 1450 01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:53,040 in treatment rooms. I started seeing a guy that's from 1451 01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:57,240 Amboy. Every Friday, he'd come in. First 2 1452 01:43:55,000 --> 01:44:00,880 weeks, yeah, I pretty good. And then, all of a sudden, 1 week later, he came 1453 01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:03,440 in and he's got a cane. A month later after that, he's in a 1454 01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:05,520 wheelchair. And the the nurse said, "Hey, how you doing? How you doing 1455 01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:08,240 today, Homer?" Well, 1456 01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:11,520 she used to say, "I'm better than nothing." What did that mean? 1457 01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:15,520 His wife had been coming in, too. I didn't realize she died the week before. 1458 01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:19,640 What a suffering is going on in this world. Why do we have so much cancer in 1459 01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:23,560 this country? I've traveled other countries. My daughter traveled There's 1460 01:44:21,440 --> 01:44:27,120 no cancer in Okinawa. There's no cancer in Turkey. You know what I mean? Name 1461 01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:30,600 some others. And And we can prove that. There isn't. What are we doing wrong 1462 01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:34,280 here? Is it the soils? No, is it our sprays? I've got Agent 1463 01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:37,920 Orange because the seven chemical companies that were paid to produce it 1464 01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:42,200 for the company for the government, we sued them. 441,000 guys signed a suit 1465 01:44:40,440 --> 01:44:46,720 with me in 1982. 15 months later, they all denied. They 1466 01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:49,880 all got off. $180 million all went to the 16 1467 01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:53,400 All went to the 16 attorneys we had. We didn't get a dime. So, ever since then, 1468 01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:56,440 the Veterans Administration has been kicking up, kicking like me and his 1469 01:44:55,160 --> 01:45:00,040 patients, rating me. You know what I mean? So, someday, 1470 01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:05,080 I'm waiting on the one from my hearing test. And two to three weeks which was a 1471 01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:09,520 month ago yesterday, I have not gotten a mail out of how my hearing test went. 1472 01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:12,000 I've been probably deaf for 20 years. Okay? Mostly. 1473 01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:16,240 So, the one yesterday said 1474 01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:19,160 that in 48 hours, it'll be documented, it'll be sent to your county veteran 1475 01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:23,160 service officer. And Michelle knows that. She's got me coming in Friday to 1476 01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:27,080 do some special things. Okay? So, I commend how good they're finally waking 1477 01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:30,920 up on this county to do well. I We had a real Dudley one back in the when I got 1478 01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:34,120 old in '69. He wasn't in his office six out of seven 1479 01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:38,120 times. You know, I I think his last name was chill. But and and other guys 1480 01:45:36,440 --> 01:45:41,240 experienced the same thing. >> Well, 1481 01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:45,560 Supervisor Miller, on behalf of the board, we certainly do 1482 01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:47,800 offer our sympathy. I know how close you and Peggy were. 1483 01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:51,680 » Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, we're uh just to let 1484 01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:56,320 you know, everybody's doing good. Uh we got our family reunion on the 28th. And 1485 01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:59,880 I just the rule is bring two or three items that you don't that you want to 1486 01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:03,160 give away, and then everybody will get like a bid on it, and if they don't get 1487 01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:07,320 given away, you take them home. Everybody's fine. So, there'll be a 1488 01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:10,160 probably 130, 150 people at that. So, thank you for letting me speak, and we 1489 01:46:08,760 --> 01:46:14,560 are survivors. >> Thank you. 1490 01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,560 » Thank you. Thank you very much. 1491 01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:23,440 » Yeah, yeah. >> Did you guys run the front of it? Are 1492 01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:25,720 you guys aware of the highway committee? Thank you. 1493 01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:29,760 » Right. Right. You open your document