[0:02] Yeah.
[0:26] Yeah.
[0:52] Oh.
[0:55] Oh, really?
Oh.
[0:59] Oh.
[1:02] Oh.
Oh.
[1:04] Oh, you're not going to
Oh.
[1:09] Oh.
[1:11] Oh, wow.
Oh.
[1:15] Oh.
I'm always your
[1:18] I think
[1:21] Yeah.
Yeah.
[1:25] Oh.
[1:29] Oh.
[1:39] Oh.
All right.
[1:42] Oh.
[1:45] Well, that's Yeah.
Yeah.
[1:50] I don't
[1:53] The first
Oh.
[1:59] Yeah.
[2:15] » [music]
[2:18] » Good evening supervisors, staff, and
guests.
[2:23] Please sign in on your tablets.
[2:37] Everybody signing in?
[2:41] I have nothing on my thing here.
[2:48] You got everybody?
[2:51] Everybody signed in? Okay, they are now.
All right.
[2:55] Okay.
How many do we have present?
[3:06] We got 14.
14.
[3:09] We have 14 present.
We have seven absent.
[3:16] Please join me in the pledge of
allegiance.
[3:21] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America, and to the
[3:26] republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[3:32] justice for all.
Thank you.
[3:37] I may need a motion to approve the
agenda.
[3:46] All right, I have a motion by supervisor
Miller and a second by supervisor
[3:50] Elliott.
There are no questions on the agenda.
[3:54] Please vote your ballot.
[4:05] All right, we have 14 yes, zero nay,
seven absent. All right, moving on. You
[4:10] have the minutes in your packet. Are
there any questions on the minutes?
[4:16] If not, I need a motion for that.
Supervisor Diedrick and a second by
[4:20] Supervisor McCann.
All in
[4:24] um
Please vote your ballot.
[4:33] Again, 14 yes, seven absent, so we still
have a quorum.
[4:39] All right, any communications?
And we have one gentleman in public
[4:44] participation, Mr. Fisher.
[4:58] » Thank you.
>> You're welcome. Uh my name is Kevin
[5:00] Fisher. I am actually um have been on
the Zoning Board of Adjustment for 16
[5:05] years.
But I just want to give a shout-out to
[5:07] two of the people that were on that
committee that retired lately,
[5:11] uh Deb Reinhardt and John Cousin.
Uh they were both on the committee when
[5:16] I got on there, so they put in
a lot more years than I've been on here
[5:20] so far, so but I just wanted to give a
shout-out to those people um
[5:24] with all the knowledge that they
provided,
[5:27] especially when I first got on there, I
didn't know what was going on and they
[5:29] they helped walk you through things.
Um
[5:33] Deb, she actually printed up a
a whole like little
[5:38] well, it's a whole page full, but
she read that every time before the the
[5:43] hearing started, so the people knew
exactly how to participate. And when
[5:48] they voted me as chairperson, she
actually gave me that and said, "Here,
[5:51] Kevin, I won't need this anymore." So,
so I use it I've only used it a couple
[5:54] of times now, but it but it just comes
in very handy. So,
[5:58] um and John John just a just a a a
wealth of knowledge as well because he
[6:03] lives down by the lake and he's
experienced a lot of these variances and
[6:07] stuff.
But the best thing about John is he's
[6:09] just got this uh
just this uh wit about him that he's
[6:13] just it's just kind of neat to see. So,
uh that was all I had. I just wanted to
[6:18] give a shout out to both of those people
for their many years of service. So,
[6:21] thank you.
>> And thank you, Kevin. Yes, both of them
[6:24] have been here a while. [applause]
[6:29] Okay, in special business,
uh Chris Moyer, our director of
[6:33] planning, zoning, and land information
will present information about data
[6:37] centers.
[7:30] » Everybody, my name's Chris Moyer,
county's planning, zoning, and land
[7:32] information director. So, I was recently
asked to give this presentation just on
[7:36] data centers. Um it's been a hot topic
in the state for the last couple of
[7:40] years. and that a few of you have also
gotten some questions too about them.
[7:43] So, I just want to kind of give you a
general overview about that.
[7:46] So, taking a look at our agenda for the
today then, um we'll be talking about
[7:50] what a data center is, a little bit of
the history of it, um why Wisconsin is
[7:54] the current focus right now for data
centers, uh looking at some challenges
[7:59] as well as concerns uh just from a
general land use perspective,
[8:02] uh then taking a look at land use and
zoning implications, uh as well as uh
[8:06] general zoning jurisdiction and
addressing data center questions that
[8:10] you may be receiving from the public as
well.
[8:13] So, starting off really, what is a data
center? So, a data centers uh they're
[8:17] the physical features uh facilities that
organizations and businesses use to
[8:21] store,
um process, as well as transmit digital
[8:24] information.
Looks like we lost the screen again.
[8:28] Uh so,
uh further getting into it, um really
[8:31] it's uh consists of routers, switches,
firewalls, um storage systems, servers,
[8:36] and really other networking equipment.
Um we see a lot of uh GPUs and CPUs are
[8:41] the main focus on some of the larger
type data centers now. They're the main
[8:44] focus for development. Uh data centers
have also um really been in use since uh
[8:49] the 1950s.
Uh we see that um good example would be
[8:54] um
the movie The Imitation Game if you're
[8:56] familiar with that. Um really it was a
large mainframe computer that they had
[9:00] created for that particular situation.
Um really used to kind of process uh
[9:05] complex math equations uh to try and
crack codes. So, little bit of
[9:09] background on data centers. Um from a
user perspective, um whenever you send
[9:13] an email, um you open an app on a
smartphone,
[9:17] um or you stream a movie, store uh files
on the cloud system, or really um use
[9:22] even social media to uh do a post, that
information itself is being processed
[9:26] within a data center. Uh so, data
centers really they're the core backbone
[9:30] of really the internet and really how
that functions.
[9:33] Um within the United States currently,
there are roughly 4,200 active data
[9:37] centers
Um and there are roughly 47 active data
[9:41] centers in Wisconsin. As of October
25th, an additional 2,700 data centers
[9:45] were being proposed in the United States
and there were also an additional 43
[9:49] data centers that are currently either
in the planning phase or in production
[9:53] phase in Wisconsin.
Taking a look at some of the examples
[9:58] that we have on the screen here,
we see
[10:01] the 1970s and 1980s depiction. That
would be an example of what's an
[10:05] enterprise level data system.
This is something where you typically
[10:10] have it's either within a room or small
building. It's like a data closet from
[10:14] that perspective.
They really grew when you had companies
[10:18] like IBM that were able to develop
business grade servers.
[10:22] These enterprise facilities are
typically owned or operated by a single
[10:25] company and they use it for their
internal services.
[10:28] This type of data center is still being
used today. A good example of it locally
[10:33] here would be within the courthouse as
well. We have an active data center.
[10:36] It's a large data closet. We've got
smaller data closets that are also
[10:39] located throughout the courthouse as
well. All of them would really be
[10:42] considered to be data centers.
From our department's perspective as
[10:46] well, within the land information side
of things, we have our own GIS servers,
[10:50] too. So, we would function really the
same way
[10:54] as a just a mini data center.
Taking a look at our next examples on
[10:58] there, we've got some co-location
facilities. Those really became
[11:01] prominent around the 1990s, early 2000s.
So, they really started to see when
[11:06] business and organizations really
shifted from hosting services on site to
[11:09] more offsite type locations that are
owned by a third party third party
[11:13] companies to operate these facilities.
Really, as the name suggests, these are
[11:19] really third party companies that have
multiple businesses they're storing
[11:22] their information and data within this
singular location. And they really
[11:25] became possible with the expansion of
the internet and faster download and
[11:29] upload speeds, part of the dot-com era.
So, why would companies really decide to
[11:34] use facilities such as this instead of
hosting their own data? Uh, when we take
[11:38] a look at the pros on their side of
things, really it's the lower initial
[11:41] cost. They don't have to pay for
servers, they don't have to buy all the
[11:43] equipment. They don't necessarily need
to have the staffing as well to be able
[11:47] to function. Um, it's easier to scale
these type of facilities, too.
[11:51] Um, the infrastructure really is managed
by that third-party company, so you
[11:55] don't have that, um, expense.
Uh, there's built-in redundancy. There's
[11:59] less cost to operate in general, and
there um, better protection against
[12:02] severe weather situations,
um, or power outages from that
[12:06] perspective, as well.
Looking at some of the cons, though,
[12:09] there's really less control over the
system itself and how it functions. Uh,
[12:13] they're typically more
subscription-based systems right now is
[12:16] what we're seeing, um, which can be more
expensive really in the long run.
[12:20] Um, there's also a dependency upon
having an internet connection, so
[12:22] obviously your internet goes down, you
lose access then to your potential files
[12:26] at that point. And it can also be more
difficult to migrate platforms once you
[12:29] already have selected a vendor. Um, from
that perspective, as their back-end
[12:33] systems don't always work together.
Uh, when we look at the third example we
[12:37] have on the screen here, this is more of
a hyperscale facility.
[12:40] Um, this is what we're seeing more so
from the 2010s on to present. These are
[12:44] large-scale systems that are being
designed more as a campus style, really
[12:48] with very large interconnected buildings
taking up hundreds of acres.
[12:52] Uh, several recent proposals in
Wisconsin have been for this campus
[12:55] style facility. Uh, they range from a
few hundred acres to, uh, there's one
[12:59] that's over 1,000 acres in size.
Uh, these facilities are often owned by
[13:03] the larger businesses. Uh, think of your
Amazons, Microsoft, Google. Uh, and
[13:07] they're needed to handle more cloud
computing, AI, and just global internet
[13:11] functions, as well.
[13:15] So, why are we seeing more development
in Wisconsin now? So, taking a look at
[13:18] Wisconsin Act 2023, uh, excuse me,
Wisconsin 2023 Act 19, which was the,
[13:24] uh, biennial budget bill, really created
a data center sales and use tax
[13:28] exemption program for qualified
facilities, really based on their total
[13:32] investment as well as the county's
population.
[13:35] Uh so,
um with this type of development for
[13:39] County of Kenosha example here, because
we've got just over 50,000 population,
[13:43] we'd be in the 50,000 to 100,000
category. So, a facility they would need
[13:47] to really invest over $100 million to
qualify for this potential tax exemption
[13:52] in Wisconsin. And these incentives have
really helped drive the more recent wave
[13:57] of development in data centers that
we've seen the last couple of years
[14:01] here.
Uh the second reason why we're seeing
[14:04] more development is just the decreasing
electric and municipal water demand
[14:08] across the state for the last two
decades. So, Wisconsin, we have an
[14:11] abundance of fresh water compared to
other states, making it enticing for
[14:14] developers to want to come here.
Um decreasing usage rates and efficiency
[14:19] improvements in both water and electric
utilities have also
[14:22] created additional capacity for
utilities to take on higher demand uses.
[14:27] Uh the argument being made is that since
development has been Excuse me, since
[14:31] demand has been decreasing, utilities
have needed to increase the cost for the
[14:35] average consumers to be able to keep up
with infrastructure maintenance. Uh so,
[14:39] they also argue that because they're
less able to perform facility upgrades,
[14:44] then because they have a decrease in
revenue,
[14:47] it's really leading to an aging
infrastructure and a larger issue in
[14:50] general.
Uh with this type of development though,
[14:54] comes the need for significant utility
improvements above and beyond what
[14:57] typical use cases that we see. For
example, the Port Washington data center
[15:01] needed the American Transmission Company
to revamp their existing transmission
[15:05] lines to force junction to the tune of
about $1.2 billion to be able to meet
[15:09] their proposed energy demands, which is
what we're seeing running through the
[15:12] county.
[15:15] Uh other issues that we see as well
that's bringing it to Wisconsin is just
[15:19] lower land and operating costs compared
to other states.
[15:22] Uh Wisconsin's in the bottom third in
the United States in terms of average
[15:25] price per acre for land. Uh cooler
temperatures as well for half of the
[15:29] year can also improve cooling efficiency
and reduce just the general operating
[15:32] costs for some of these facilities
compared to warmer climates.
[15:37] Uh then taking a look at just our last
point in here, proximity to major metro
[15:41] area. So, data centers are often cited
near major metro areas to reduce
[15:45] latency. Um that's the delay between a
user request and then a server response.
[15:50] So, the further away that a data center
is um to the end user, the longer that
[15:54] the delay is. So, they try to build them
closer as well as spread them out into
[15:59] other areas throughout the country to be
able to help reduce that latency that
[16:02] they're seeing. It also uh provides some
additional redundancy. So, if you've got
[16:06] large natural disasters or other events
that occur, a single facility going down
[16:11] isn't going to shut down the entire
network essentially.
[16:14] They also do that too to try and help
spread out water demand as well as just
[16:17] electric demand across the grid.
[16:24] Uh looking at concerns and challenges.
So, the primary one that we've been
[16:27] hearing um within the last year or so
really is just high electric demand and
[16:31] increased utility rates. Uh I'd say it's
probably the number one concern that
[16:35] we've been seeing. Um at the state
level, uh there were a couple of bills
[16:39] that were also proposed in January to
try and address some of these issues. Uh
[16:43] they were primarily focused on utility
rates, water usage, and just cooling
[16:47] methods in general for these types of
facilities, but both of those bills
[16:50] failed and they did not progress at the
state level.
[16:54] Uh even though the Public Service
Commission does not directly regulate
[16:57] data centers, that's handled at the
local level, uh they do still have
[17:00] control and authority to regulate
utility rates.
[17:04] Uh in April of this year, the PSC did
approve a modified uh We Energies large
[17:08] load tariff, which was intended to
ensure that very large data centers,
[17:12] including projects like the Port
Washington data center, pay their own
[17:15] utility related costs rather than
shifting them onto the end consumers. Uh
[17:20] similar action was also taken in May for
an Alliant Energy project and it shows
[17:24] that the PSC uh has a broader
expectation that data centers and these
[17:28] types of facilities are going to be
bearing their own costs when it comes to
[17:32] um utility related costs and projects
really going forward. Um it's part of
[17:36] these actions that they did though, it's
not an all-encompassing action. Um for
[17:39] the We Energies one, it did directly
impact their large load tariff, which
[17:43] does impact all projects that they have
going forward. Um but for other ones it
[17:47] did not impact that, so it's really
viewed on a case-by-case basis for how
[17:51] these are addressed going forward. But
at least it's it's positive news coming
[17:54] from the PSC that they're willing to to
listen to constituents and see the
[17:58] issues at hand.
[18:02] Uh taking a look at our next issue,
which is more water usage and cooling.
[18:05] So water usage is often considered one
of the uh more highly debated and
[18:09] concerning topics surrounding data
centers. Part of that's due to the
[18:12] wide-ranging reports that we see in
water usage for the facilities. Uh each
[18:16] data center operates different based on
how they're being utilized by their
[18:19] parent company and how they're being
cooled. Data centers that primarily
[18:23] focus on data storage and cloud services
compared to like AI services, uh they're
[18:27] typically using significantly less um
water from that perspective because they
[18:32] don't need it. They're not generating as
much heat as what an AI data center um
[18:36] would be generating.
The Environmental and Energy Study
[18:39] Institute published an article in June
of last year, which is taking a look at
[18:42] data center water usage. They found that
a medium-sized data center similar to a
[18:47] colocation facility of 10 megawatts can
consume roughly 110 million gallons of
[18:52] water annually, which is equivalent to
annual water usage approximately 1,000
[18:56] households.
A large data center such as a hyperscale
[18:59] facility can consume roughly 5 million
gallons of water per day or about 1.8
[19:04] billion gallons of water annually, which
is equivalent to a municipality of
[19:08] 30,000 people.
So all of these uh factors are really
[19:11] are dependent upon the size in megawatts
of that particular data center and also
[19:16] the type of cooling methods that they're
using. Uh the Port Washington facility,
[19:20] for example, will be roughly 900
megawatts in size, which is a very large
[19:24] data center. Um it is 672-acre
facility.
[19:29] Uh the developers plan to use a
closed-loop cooling system that will
[19:32] have a peak daily water usage of
approximately 22,000 gallons of water,
[19:36] which is significantly less than the
other examples that we were talking
[19:38] about.
Um this is lower primarily due to it
[19:42] being that closed-loop style system, but
the trade-off that you deal with the
[19:46] closed-loop system is then your energy
needs are significantly higher.
[19:50] Uh that's why we see in some situations,
um especially earlier on, they were
[19:54] developing more
um direct water um water-applied or
[19:58] water-evaporation style systems because
the water was cheap. Uh so, they would
[20:03] try to go with the cheapest electric
style option that they had. They would
[20:07] use millions of gallons of water. Uh the
water would just evaporate, um but their
[20:11] energy demands were significantly less.
Um because of public concerns and issues
[20:16] that we've been seeing over the last
couple of years, a lot of them are
[20:19] trying to make that shift now towards
the closed-loop systems instead uh to
[20:23] try to address that.
Uh part of the issues that we were also
[20:26] seeing with that was water discharge, um
which is also just a general concern.
[20:31] Those older systems using the
evaporation cooling towers, uh water
[20:35] consumption was quite high in addition
to that discharge rate. Uh the rate um
[20:39] typically had higher concentrated
minerals in it. They also had other
[20:42] chemicals in it that were just a part of
the maintenance process in general for
[20:46] these facilities,
um which are also obviously a fairly
[20:49] significant environmental concern if
it's being discharged to a local
[20:52] waterway.
Uh the more advanced uh more recent
[20:55] systems like the closed-loop system at
Port Washington eliminates that
[20:58] particular issue. Uh so, it's really
important when you start talking data
[21:01] centers to focus on the type of cooling
methods that are being proposed for each
[21:06] particular facility
um just to be able to determine what
[21:09] potential water impacts that it has.
[21:13] One of the other main concerns is always
noise. Um noise is uh more of a concern
[21:18] with these facilities because they have
constant cooling, large backup power
[21:21] sources in the event of an emergency. Uh
so data centers um typically contain
[21:26] HVAC systems, uh chillers, cooling
towers, pumps, and just numerous
[21:30] industrial fans. Um combined, these
sources produce just a constant
[21:34] background noise that um can impact
adjacent properties.
[21:38] Taking a look at just general background
decibels in a rural uh residential area
[21:42] at night is typically around 20 to 30
decibels, uh while urban neighborhoods
[21:47] are usually around 35 to 40 decibels.
Uh just for a point of reference, uh
[21:51] normal conversation back and forth with
someone would be around 55 to 60
[21:55] decibels.
Uh so data centers, they typically aim
[21:58] for around 45 decibels. Um that's
usually compatible with most municipal
[22:02] noise ordinance standards.
Uh you can also do conditional use
[22:05] standards to potentially try to lower
that uh to match surrounding
[22:09] neighborhood um noise levels as well.
Backup generators are typically one of
[22:14] the um mostly conditioned noise
standards with data centers. Generators
[22:19] often exceed 100 decibels
um in noise, so conditions are placed
[22:23] upon them for when, how often, and um
how long they can be tested for.
[22:28] Obviously, emergency situations, they
would have to be running, um but they
[22:31] can potentially try to mitigate issues
by putting them in locations that are
[22:35] not going to have as much of an impact
on potential um neighboring property
[22:38] owners as well.
Uh just because of the noise concerns
[22:42] alone, um it's one of the main factors
on why data centers are usually viewed
[22:46] as more of an industrial-style use.
[22:50] Taking a look at our fourth point here,
uh which would be land space issues. So
[22:53] hyperscale projects can vary greatly in
size, like we already mentioned. Uh Port
[22:58] Washington project, roughly 670 acres.
The uh Beaver Dam project is uh just
[23:03] over 500 acres. And uh with after
several expansions, the Mount Pleasant
[23:07] campus is over 1,300 acres in size.
Developers are often looking for green
[23:12] space to be able to develop these
cities, which typically includes
[23:15] existing agricultural lands.
Uh farmland in general is obviously
[23:18] available commodity,
um but more so in agricultural
[23:22] communities. Um so this results in
increased costs of remaining
[23:25] agricultural land, loss of productive
farmland, and the fragmentation of
[23:29] existing farmland as well.
Some municipalities are starting to push
[23:33] for a minimum floor area ratios to help
reduce uh density sprawl on these data
[23:37] center sites, which can then encourage
them to try to build more vertically
[23:41] instead of just sprawling out across the
landscape.
[23:44] Uh the last one I wanted to bring up
then was uh vehicle traffic and road
[23:48] wear concerns.
Uh these are often concerns with data
[23:51] center projects during the initial
construction phase of the project
[23:53] itself.
Facilities um taking up hundreds of
[23:57] acres, uh you're talking thousands of
loads of gravel, rock, and just
[24:01] concrete, and materials in general being
brought to the site um to for
[24:06] development. Obviously, this causes
significant wear and tear on existing
[24:09] roads.
Um can be seen with the Port Washington
[24:12] project as material was brought in from
dozens of quarries across the state,
[24:15] some of as far north as uh ones located
in the town of Charlestown even,
[24:20] to be able to meet their demands. So,
these activities can significantly
[24:23] reduce just their overall life
expectancy of regional roads, um as well
[24:27] as roads adjacent to the project in
conditions that are often put in place
[24:30] on them to try to address road damage
and offset the cost to be able to repair
[24:35] them.
[24:38] Uh taking a look at land use and zoning
implications.
[24:42] So, due to the intensity of the use,
most municipalities usually view data
[24:46] centers as an industrial use. Some
municipalities have also gone the route
[24:50] of uh creating specific zoning districts
for them uh to allow data centers.
[24:55] Municipalities have decided to go this
route due to the changes that were made
[24:58] um with a conditional use permit process
as part of the 2017 Act 67. Act 67
[25:04] limited the power of local governments
to
[25:07] buy
limited local governments by requiring
[25:10] decisions to be based on substantial
evidence. So, if an applicant is able to
[25:14] meet all the particular standards and
requirements that are labeled within the
[25:17] ordinance and that the committee places
upon it, the committee is then required
[25:21] to grant that particular CUP. There's no
discretion that's within that they have
[25:25] to approve it.
Map amendments or re-zones for
[25:28] municipalities a little bit more
discretion. If a proposed re-zone does
[25:32] not match the comprehensive plan or is
not consistent with surrounding land
[25:35] uses, it's easier for a municipality to
be able to deny that re-zone
[25:39] compared to a conditional use permit,
which is why they're creating these
[25:42] additional zoning districts to put them
in a separate category.
[25:47] Most of the land under county zoning is
designated as agricultural as well as
[25:51] being located within farmland
preservation certified districts. Within
[25:54] those districts, the particular use for
data centers is not actually a permitted
[25:58] use.
The Department of Agricultural Trade and
[26:01] Consumer Protection provided this
interpretation in one of the last
[26:04] conferences that we went to.
They wanted to make that specific
[26:07] distinction that these are not utility
grade facilities. These are a separate,
[26:10] usually a private entity that's coming
in. So, we have more discretion over
[26:14] what can be permitted and what cannot be
permitted with these uses, whereas
[26:18] utility facilities would end up going to
the Public Service Commission for
[26:20] approval and we have very limited
control at the local level.
[26:26] Now, looking at other potential land use
concerns, so while county said while the
[26:31] county has several transmission lines
and substations, the majority of our
[26:35] regional water usage is sourced from
local ground water.
[26:39] Another way to be able to restrict the
location of data centers would be to
[26:43] require these facilities to be located
on municipal water and sewer services.
[26:48] The majority of our towns, with the
exception of the Forest Junction area,
[26:51] do not have a communal water supply uh
requiring that such a facility be on
[26:55] sewer and water would help reduce the
potential impact and groundwater
[26:58] drawdown on neighboring properties. And
we're seeing that in some situations of
[27:02] municipalities requiring that. A lot of
situations we see as well is that these
[27:07] developments, they may be occurring on
fringe locations within townships, but
[27:11] they're being annexed by cities and
villages. So, in most cases, it's
[27:15] occurring within cities and villages
because they have the services um for
[27:18] these particular facilities to function.
And then the last point on here is just
[27:23] the the county's uh current general
zoning ordinance has standards really in
[27:27] place to be able to address data
centers.
[27:29] Uh
signing a new data center would likely
[27:31] result in the conversion of several
hundred acres of farmlands, and based on
[27:34] our current comprehensive plan, it's
really unlikely to meet the
[27:37] justifications uh needed to convert such
a large tract of land for this type of
[27:41] use.
Uh this request would also likely not be
[27:44] approved by any of the townships under
county zoning uh for failing to meet
[27:48] consistency requirements between zoning
ordinance as well as the comprehensive
[27:51] plan.
So, if a data center were to be approved
[27:54] uh through the rezoning process in our
jurisdiction, the use is still not
[27:57] listed as an approved use in our zoning
ordinance.
[28:00] The county zoning ordinance is a
permissive-based ordinance, uh which
[28:04] means that unless the use is
specifically listed in the ordinance for
[28:07] that district, the use itself is not
approved at all. It's not permitted.
[28:11] Uh there's potential option in this
situation where they could go with a use
[28:15] not listed um section that we have, uh
but these are viewed on a case-by-case
[28:19] basis. They need to meet use-based
consistency requirements to be even
[28:23] considered. Um based on our current
language, I feel like we're in a good
[28:26] position to be able to address data
centers.
[28:30] Uh looking at general zoning by
jurisdiction, a little bit of what we
[28:34] talked about, just the general zoning
ordinance um at the county level,
[28:38] uh the standards that I mentioned would
be in place within the towns of
[28:41] Brillion, Charlestown, New Holstein, and
Woodville. And all the text is a little
[28:44] bit small on the map there, but those
would be the communities that are in
[28:47] green.
The uh communities that are in yellow,
[28:50] those would be ones that administer
their own general zoning requirements
[28:53] and are not under the county's general
purview or jurisdiction, either.
[28:57] So, for townships that are not in county
zoning, the question will be based
[29:01] really on the current zoning ordinances
and their comprehensive plan.
[29:04] So, all most of them did participate
with the county in our comprehensive
[29:07] plan update. We did identify some areas
as transitional in the comprehensive
[29:11] plan, which could include industrial
industrial development. Potentially,
[29:15] most of those areas are not large enough
to support a hyperscale data center or
[29:19] would conflict with the surrounding land
uses and zoning districts in that area.
[29:23] The town of Sack Bridge is the only
municipality that does not have zoning
[29:26] in the county, so there's little that
could be done from a regulatory
[29:29] perspective to be able to regulate a
facility such as this.
[29:33] I know that moratoria were, you know,
another discussion point that has come
[29:37] up recently, too.
Enacting moratoria has been one of the
[29:39] main ways that municipalities in the
state have tried to put a temporary
[29:42] pause on data center development. It's a
practice that can use to delay the
[29:46] process, so municipalities have time to
come up with zoning standards for a set
[29:51] period of time, but based on our current
standards, like I said, I feel like
[29:54] we're in a fairly good position and
don't need to enact a moratorium at this
[29:58] time.
Also, a moratorium enacted at the county
[30:02] level would only be applicable in the
municipalities where we currently have
[30:05] zoning jurisdiction. So, like I said,
the four municipalities on there is the
[30:09] only place where it would be even
applicable. All the other
[30:12] municipalities, the cities, villages,
towns of Brothertown, Chilton, and
[30:16] Rantoul, if we do a moratorium, it would
not be applicable in those locations as
[30:20] we do not have jurisdiction there.
So, each municipality, they would have
[30:24] to come up with their own moratorium
language if that's the direction that
[30:27] they want to go to be able to enforce
that.
[30:33] And then our last points here is just
addressing data center questions in
[30:35] general. So, a couple of key points just
to focus on is don't over promise
[30:39] county authority on projects just when
talking with constituents. Uh like we
[30:43] said, the county only has general zoning
in four of our eight townships. So, our
[30:47] authority is really limited from that
perspective. We can't enact a a sweeping
[30:51] ordinance to be able to limit something
like this or to approve something like
[30:54] this uh just because we don't have the
authority to do that in those areas.
[30:58] Another key point is just commitment to
process transparency.
[31:02] Uh so, if a project is in an area under
county uh jurisdiction, we have specific
[31:06] processes that are outlined in ordinance
to be able to be transparent as well as
[31:10] prior public hearings for the public to
engage and interact with the process
[31:13] itself.
If someone does have a particular
[31:15] question in mind, um they're more than
welcome to contact the department. You
[31:19] know, we're more than happy to answer
any potential questions that people
[31:22] have, address any concerns that they
have. One of our main focuses is just to
[31:26] help educate the public so that they're,
you know, more understanding of um what
[31:29] our uh requirements, what our ordinance
language says, and all that, just um be
[31:34] more transparent with the public in
general.
[31:36] And uh just a general statement, too,
that we have on here is uh just because
[31:39] the the county is a mixture of county
zone areas and municipalities that have
[31:42] their own authority, uh there's not one
single answer that um for every proposed
[31:47] site. Uh residents really deserve a
clearer um explanation of which body
[31:51] would review a specific land use issue,
uh what other permits would be required,
[31:55] and where the public can participate in
that particular process. So, residents
[31:59] are really urged to uh directly contact
their local municipalities if they have
[32:03] any questions about a particular project
or really what that review process looks
[32:07] like because it's really it's on a
case-by-case basis, and it may be a
[32:10] different municipality what they think
of would actually regulate it.
[32:16] » Are there any questions with this?
[32:21] Please um
press your [clears throat] request to
[32:23] speak.
[32:27] Ryan, Supervisor Cole.
[32:31] You had a question.
>> No.
[32:33] » No.
[32:35] Us.
>> Machesky, Supervisor.
[32:37] » Supervisor Machesky.
>> I just wanted to clarify. So, we
[32:41] currently have one in our county.
>> So, we have the one that is actually
[32:46] here in the courthouse. There's also one
that is in Harrison that is more of a I
[32:50] wouldn't say quite a co-location style,
but it's a larger facility.
[32:54] Those are the only ones that I'm aware
of. You know, obviously most businesses
[32:57] have some form of that, but it's their
own personal use. The only active larger
[33:02] one would be the one in Harrison.
>> Okay. And that one, based on your
[33:05] presentation, would have been approved
by the village of Harrison and the
[33:08] county wouldn't have had any say in
that.
[33:10] » Correct. Yep.
>> Do you have any specs on like kind of
[33:13] what they use at that facility?
>> We weren't involved in any of that
[33:16] process, so we're not really privy to
any of the information that they had. It
[33:20] would be whatever they have publicly
available. Like I said, we we just
[33:23] weren't involved in that one.
>> Thanks for the presentation. I really
[33:26] enjoyed learning about it.
>> Yep.
[33:30] » Supervisor Williams.
>> Matt.
[33:33] Yeah, thanks for that. I appreciate the
detail. Um, do you have a quantifiable
[33:37] sense of scale for the current existing
active data centers throughout the state
[33:41] and how that compares to some of the the
hyperscale projects that are being
[33:43] proposed? I assume we don't have
anything hyper yet in the state.
[33:47] » We do. Yeah, we actually have several
online. Yep, there's the Port Washington
[33:51] one, which that's the 560-ish acre size
one.
[33:55] There's also the Mount Horeb, Mount
Pleasant
[33:59] Madison area. That one is 1,300 acres in
size. So, that's a I think that one is
[34:04] over 2,000 megawatt capacity, which is
extremely large facility that we would
[34:09] typically see.
The next largest one is that Port
[34:12] Washington one, which is less than half
that size in capacity. [clears throat]
[34:16] And that's still considered to be a
hyperscale facility. The image that I
[34:19] had up a
bring that up here for you guys. This is
[34:22] actually a rendering of what the Port
Washington facility looks like. It's a
[34:27] four different core areas, different
buildings. That's more that campus
[34:31] style. That's that hyperscale facility.
>> Do you know other than the hyperscale
[34:36] what the kind of megawattage is
throughout the rest of the state? I
[34:39] mean, is that one in Mount Horeb twice
the size of everything else? You know, I
[34:42] know that hyperscales are really on
another level. Is it something along
[34:45] those lines?
>> I would say that facility itself
[34:48] probably makes up 2/3, if not 3/4 of the
overall capacity, just in data centers
[34:53] in Wisconsin in general. Um, just
because like I said, the next largest
[34:56] one is not even half that size in
capacity. And those are really some of
[35:00] the major ones. Uh, the Beaver Dam
project, I believe is even half the size
[35:04] of the Port Washington one as well.
Um, so they're starting to make that
[35:08] shift towards some of these larger ones
um, in our area. Um, it just hasn't been
[35:12] as common here. I know West Virginia,
Virginia area, um, they're more
[35:16] considered to be kind of like the the
main hub for data center developments
[35:21] um, out there. So, they've got
significantly more development going on
[35:24] over there.
>> Supervisor Miller.
[35:27] » My my connector's not working. So, thank
you, Madam Chairman.
[35:31] Yeah, I have some questions.
Um, being from the older group, uh, the
[35:35] DNR back in the '70s and '80s was all
concerned about
[35:39] digging too close to navigable streams.
You take about the Hayden swamp, they
[35:43] did everything to keep the farmers from
plowing too close and navigable streams.
[35:48] I even had one. They tried to make mine
a navigable stream, which is a mud hole.
[35:52] It was a pasture land that I bought with
a home at and it's not. So, I dug a pond
[35:56] in '02. But, from the '70s to '02,
things really changed. Why did the DNR
[36:02] not go to sleep and let these people
take navigable streams down at Beaver
[36:05] Dam and Port Washington? People that
lived there that have been living there
[36:08] 40, 50 years, they closed off navigable
streams and they're building on it.
[36:13] Other concerns, I've been to some of
these demonstrations and these
[36:15] information meetings. Other concerns are
why aren't they building the buildings
[36:18] higher to take less land? Same thing it
should have been with high schools ever
[36:21] since the '80s. You got fat kids running
around school, but they don't even have
[36:25] to go up and down stairs.
Okay? You could put in elevators, okay?
[36:29] All right, the other concerns are you
need to let people know. Town of
[36:32] Greenleaf kicked them out a year and a
half ago. Kewaunee kicked them out a
[36:35] year ago. Because I've been kind of busy
with my wife's funeral stuff, I don't
[36:39] know what Wrightstown is doing, but
there was pretty good opposition there
[36:41] and I'm and I sent them some documents
of people up there.
[36:45] And the other thing is is Canada going
nuts with this too or not? Do you know?
[36:50] » I haven't heard anything. Just something
like that on the Canadian side of it.
[36:53] » it in Africa
or South America or Australia. Why here?
[36:59] Somebody is making a mint out of this.
The last part is
[37:02] I have some farmer friends that own
acres in Brown County.
[37:06] Three or four years ago they weren't
saying they were buying the land for
[37:08] data centers, but they came around and
two both these farmers said, "When you
[37:12] connect everybody around here, all the
farmers including in my 360 and my 180,
[37:18] then I'll come and consider selling to."
They never got more than two land owners
[37:22] out of probably about 22 or 24 to
compare. So they washed. They never said
[37:26] it was about data centers, but the
deception was there, okay? So we need to
[37:30] stop it. Uh back in my the planning and
zoning last year, I threw tried to get a
[37:35] proclamation through that we keep them
out of Calumet County. Pretty interested
[37:39] in good old Samaria. People that come
from Chicago, they love it up here going
[37:43] north. You know what I mean? You're
rubbing that all out and you're letting
[37:45] them build these data centers. So I say
stand up. Opposition. Veterans are all
[37:50] against this all across the country and
they could care less about a lot of
[37:53] veterans. 440,000 in California alone
choose to be homeless. They don't want
[37:57] nothing to do with the government.
Thank you for hearing me, Madam Chair.
[38:03] » Um I have a question. Um
I've read many studies about the
[38:08] shortage of water
>> Yep.
[38:10] » as it comes into the future.
Um are these data centers recycling
[38:16] their own water or where are they going
to get all the water that's demanded for
[38:21] their operation? Do you know that?
>> Yeah, so a lot of them are going more
[38:24] towards that closed-loop style system.
Uh which that closed-loop system is
[38:29] using significantly less water than what
some of the older ones were where I said
[38:32] some of the older larger ones were
using, you know, millions of gallons a
[38:36] day. Um the Port Washington project
itself is using roughly 22,000 gallons
[38:41] and they say that's not even part of
their cooling. That's just part of their
[38:43] general operations because they have
almost 400 employees a part of it.
[38:47] They're saying that uh they're not
adding anything directly um from a
[38:51] cooling perspective water input to that
for the Port Washington project.
[38:56] » I know there's a lot of concern there
about water usage and I certainly would
[39:01] be concerned because in any dry areas,
even in our area, water is
[39:07] really scarce.
>> Yep, and that's why they've started to
[39:09] make that um shift more towards that.
But like I said, you you'd end up
[39:13] dealing with those trade-offs then
because now you're using more energy
[39:16] because it's that closed-loop system
compared to using more water. Um just
[39:20] with the methods that they use now.
>> Okay, thank you, Chris. Any other
[39:24] questions?
>> Just ma'am.
[39:25] » Oh.
So okay.
[39:26] » Okay, thank you, Madam Chairman. More
information. I've been on sites in Texas
[39:30] where they're laying the pipe. I know
people that are responsible for laying
[39:34] so much length of pipe, so many sizes of
pipe. They have certain number of wires
[39:38] that have to go in and I asked them,
"How do you get the wire to go through
[39:41] when you got these 200 ft of pipe?" They
say you take Walmart bags and a
[39:44] compressor, you tie a string to the
Walmart bag, suck it through, and then
[39:48] they tie the wire on it and run it
through with a rope. That's how they're
[39:51] building them. 900 acre site I was on
last summer about this time of the year.
[39:55] I got pictures. They go down 8-10 ft.
They level everything where they connect
[39:59] the pipes through and then they come
along and everything's there. They throw
[40:02] some rock on it and then they cement 4
ft high by 6 ft wide these ditches
[40:07] and then they put a back cover on it.
But all that water that is run through
[40:10] there to do that, that's why I'm saying
they're closing up navigable streams.
[40:14] And guess what? Texas has no lakes.
There's no lakes in Texas. If you play
[40:18] play a little bit of
trivia, you'll find out all real fast.
[40:22] There's no lakes in Texas. All they got
is the ocean. So, that is really a
[40:26] problem there. And we've been dry around
here, haven't we? The little blessing we
[40:29] got this morning, I was biking at 3:30
this morning. Thank you. Thank you. I
[40:32] think my wife sent it. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Supervisor Miller. Any other
[40:37] questions? All right. Supervisor
Supervisor Macheski.
[40:43] » Yes, sorry. Just to follow up on your
point. Um is that accurate from your
[40:47] understanding that there were changes
where
[40:51] I don't want I don't want to use your
terms there that streams are being
[40:54] I guess allowed to be converted that
weren't in the past.
[40:57] » That's more on the the DNR side of
regulation.
[41:01] There's been some I would say
significant changes just in the DNR just
[41:05] over the last decade or so.
More so from conservation to
[41:09] development.
So, it could be something that they're
[41:12] doing, but again, that's all in the
DNR's purview. I haven't seen it
[41:15] directly myself, but I've heard similar
things that Joe has been mentioning as
[41:18] well.
>> And then I guess as a I don't know if
[41:20] this is kind of in your area or not.
Obviously, we've talked about that the
[41:25] public can get together and say we don't
want this in our community. I'm sure
[41:29] that the companies would say that
there's a lot of benefits to having
[41:32] these and we need these to further
technology and everything else. If you
[41:36] have somebody who is maybe against
having this in their community or is
[41:40] worried about the the scale, is there
anything that you would recommend the
[41:44] average person do to take I guess
personal action or is it something
[41:48] that's such a global scale? Like for
example, right? Like I can drive an
[41:52] electric car, but if a billionaire is
taking their jet every single day, what
[41:56] kind of personal impact am I making?
Would you say it's something on that
[41:59] scale or are there actionable things
everyday people can do?
[42:03] » Yeah, I would say it's so integrated
within our current system now just
[42:06] because really it's the backbone of how
the internet itself functions. So,
[42:10] I I you need data centers to that you
know, certain extent, but it's been more
[42:14] of the development recently just with AI
tools and everything else that is why
[42:18] we've been seeing this more major shift.
Um so, that's that's part of it. Um you
[42:23] know, use of AI obviously then spurs
additional buildings being constructed,
[42:28] additional data centers. Um you know, so
that's something, you know, if you're
[42:31] not interested in using AI or you don't
want to use it, um you know, that's a
[42:35] particular approach that individuals
could take um from that perspective. Um
[42:39] like I said, I don't know if there's
really a, you know, a large, you know,
[42:43] one thing that could particularly be
done um for use cases like this.
[42:47] » Thank you. And then just one last
clarification. So, if they're using less
[42:50] water and using more energy, I would
assume that's a non-renewable source of
[42:54] energy then that they're pulling
>> So, we've been seeing a couple different
[42:57] examples. Um I don't know that the one
of the nuclear power facilities that um
[43:03] Jonas Salk on Michigan that they had
shut down.
[43:06] Yeah, they were talking about starting
that one back up again and with that
[43:10] one, they would actually put a data
center on the front end um before the
[43:13] energy actually gets put out to the
grid. So, it actually would power the
[43:16] data center first and then the energy
would go out to the grid because it
[43:19] would be using so much energy. There's
been a few other cases, one in Iowa, I
[43:23] believe it was a Google facility there
that they were also planning to start up
[43:27] a nuclear facility, too, to be able to
power a data center.
[43:30] So, they're taking a couple different
approaches um to be able to do it.
[43:34] » Supervisor McCann.
>> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. I I'm just
[43:38] curious, Chris, is there a
a design or a size or a
[43:44] uh
type of data center that you could see
[43:47] being appropriate for Calumet County? I
mean, I you talked a lot about the huge
[43:52] data centers and other things. Is there
a
[43:54] a business that could move to
uh Calumet County that would attach
[43:59] itself to a data center that we would
find,
[44:02] you know, fitting in with the landscape
and with the general
[44:06] population?
>> Yeah, I mean, more like the typical
[44:09] co-location size that we see that is
more around the you know the 10 to maybe
[44:13] 100 MW capacity where maybe we're
talking under 100,000 square feet for
[44:18] some of these facilities.
Even like the Harrison example, too, you
[44:22] know, how many people actually knew that
that was a data center that was there?
[44:25] You know, not many people really know
that.
[44:27] So, more of the that particular size
probably fits more for our landscape and
[44:31] makes more sense with some of the models
that they're trying to do, too, where
[44:34] they're promoting to have more
facilities so that you have more
[44:37] redundancy. You've got more protections
from, you know, natural disaster events.
[44:41] You know, that may be something that is
more palatable, I think, just to the
[44:44] general public, even not just County
Macoupin, but just Wisconsin in general.
[44:48] » Yeah, I I and I think that's one of my
concerns is that you create a
[44:53] kind of a boogeyman nature to these
things that that may or may not be
[44:57] appropriate for what we need in our
county to develop.
[45:01] » Yep.
[45:03] » Okay, thank you.
Well, all right, one more time, Mr.
[45:08] Miller.
>> Chairman,
[45:10] addressing the water issue,
I picked up articles from down as far as
[45:14] Dodgeville papers and stuff. When they
when they clean up these areas, they
[45:18] clean up the navigable streams, be glad
that the water will come back with the
[45:21] tungsten, the zinc, the lead, and
graphite that comes back, it will kill
[45:25] the sheep, it will kill the horses.
They're all it's all ground fine. It it
[45:29] can't blow in the wind cuz it's tough to
attach to ground, okay? So, where do the
[45:33] poisons go? Air, the water, or the
ground, okay?
[45:37] The Amish have a very strong upfront on
this. You won't see them in Ohio or
[45:40] Pennsylvania, even in parts over like
Wittenberg. The the Amish are on top of
[45:44] this. You're not coming here. And
they're getting some respect, and
[45:47] they're they're they're letting people
know. So, if we continue to drag our
[45:51] feet and don't do something, as I
advocated 4 months ago, ban them from
[45:55] here, they'll fold up and go away, but
their top dogs will always change
[45:59] wherever from where China or Korea, or
they're from, they'll always change and
[46:03] they'll come attract you because it's
they're the ones that are making the
[46:06] money and they're ruining our local
landscapes. Enough is enough is enough.
[46:10] Thank you.
>> Okay. Uh supervisor
[46:14] » Yeah, just one more. Uh so if they're
moving towards uh more closed loop
[46:18] systems instead of the evaporative
cooling,
[46:20] the evaporative cooling leads to that
going to the air because of the phase
[46:23] change from water to you know moisture
to to air and all that, does that lead
[46:27] to the closed closed loop system
releasing more heat into the ecosystem
[46:31] via the water because of that cooling
system instead of the air? Does that
[46:35] have some other unintended effects as
well?
[46:37] » Yeah, I I think that's one of the the
main factors that they end up dealing
[46:40] with. Uh same thing with the evaporative
cooling, too. Uh they end up dealing
[46:44] with what's called blow down, which is
where they end up cleaning out some of
[46:46] those systems because they're dealing
with that high concentration now. You've
[46:50] gone from having um say 100 gallons, um
the evaporation would take up roughly 75
[46:55] gallons of that, then you've got 25
gallons that are remaining, and that is
[46:59] more concentrated minerals and just
everything else that's, you know,
[47:02] involved in it. So really, you know,
you've got the trade-off and with both
[47:06] of these particular systems, you know,
which one's better?
[47:09] You know, I don't know if you're looking
more at the water conservation side,
[47:11] obviously the closed loop style systems,
but you've got that trade-off just in
[47:14] energy consumption and just general heat
output, too.
[47:19] » Okay.
That's it. Thank you.
[47:23] A lot of questions, a lot of concerns.
All right.
[47:27] The next on list Todd Romenesko, county
administrator, and he's going to present
[47:32] how county finances shape Wisconsin
human services.
[47:48] » Good evening.
So this is intended to be one of about
[47:55] three
um
[47:58] sessions that we're going to have with
the county board in an effort to provide
[48:03] some education regarding overall county
budgeting hopefully prior to your
[48:09] November action uh on the county board
vote for the budget. So, we've heard
[48:15] over the years from board members that
it's complex, it's confusing. So, um the
[48:22] finance director Mike Stegbauer and I
have put together um
[48:25] different trainings uh to provide that
information allowing you some time to
[48:29] kind of digest this um section by
section.
[48:33] Um and hopefully also clear up some of
the confusion that um some of your
[48:38] residents have had regarding tax bills
and tax rates and things like that.
[48:43] So, um
I'm hoping this will be informal. So,
[48:48] you'll just raise your hand. We will
forego the um select the button for now
[48:52] so it could be interactive as questions
come up.
[48:55] Um
as I was preparing this I was thinking
[48:58] about um in 2003
when I was the deputy director for human
[49:05] services.
In that fall of that year I prepared a
[49:09] budget that I thought was a
strength-based budget, data-driven,
[49:14] uh responsible for um the county
citizens.
[49:19] And
that was in preparation for 2004.
[49:23] In January of 2004 that year we had two
juvenile delinquents some board members
[49:30] will remember when this happened.
Two juvenile delinquents that were on
[49:35] our caseload threw a large rock through
a speeding vehicle.
[49:40] And
the judge dealt with them harshly and
[49:44] sentenced them to Lincoln Hills.
And
[49:49] for a county budget for Lincoln Hills at
the time I can't even tell you for sure
[49:54] what the amount was for one youth to be
sentenced to Lincoln Hills. That was all
[49:59] paid by county dollars.
Today,
[50:02] um that's $468,000
[50:06] that the county pays out of our tax levy
for the one youth.
[50:10] And I found myself that year
in front of the county board, never
[50:16] having done that before,
because my director conveniently was on
[50:19] a trip to Ireland
when I needed to ask for money
[50:23] because we knew the budget was going to
be blown.
[50:27] Over time, we prepare for one of those
kids, maybe. But to try to prepare for
[50:33] youth that are unknown to us at times to
commit a crime and be sentenced doesn't
[50:38] make any sense.
So, it's very important for county board
[50:42] members to understand the impact that
that has on county finances, things that
[50:47] are in our control, things are that
aren't in our control.
[50:50] » Um
>> And nobody did anything wrong in that
[50:53] instant except for the kids.
Right? We prepared a budget that was
[50:57] responsible. Our staff followed the law.
We could arguably the court made the
[51:03] right decisions, let's say, by these two
youth um by sentencing them.
[51:08] Um but the budget was blown.
So, it's important for
[51:13] human services directors and county
board members across the state to
[51:17] understand um how that works, why that
is, and if there's anything we can do
[51:22] about it.
[51:25] Um [clears throat] so, the objectives
for today
[51:29] or tonight, cuz I'm assuming um
none of you would consider yourselves
[51:34] experts in human services funding or
county funding, right?
[51:38] So, there's always a little something to
learn. Yeah.
[51:41] So, we will have um an understanding of
Wisconsin county revenue structure,
[51:47] which is important across all
departments.
[51:50] Um we'll identify pressures that are
unique to your human services
[51:54] departments.
And we'll explore strategic responses
[51:58] like what are you going to do about it
um and why we need to do something about
[52:01] it.
[52:06] And because there was such interest in
the data center in the interest of time,
[52:10] I'll try to keep this high level, but I
won't spend a ton of time on a lot of
[52:13] these slides.
Um so why the why do we face the
[52:17] structural mismatch is what I decided to
call that for the um
[52:22] for this presentation that it's not a
management problem. What I should tell
[52:27] you is this will also be in prime time
at the WCA conference. So I've been
[52:31] asked to present this at a session on
Monday, so you can feel free to skip or
[52:37] if you want to really get a deep dive,
you can come to that one as well.
[52:41] Um so
I like to say that it's not a management
[52:44] problem always. It's not always a
management problem. There are certain
[52:48] things that we can do to try to manage
expenses in certain areas within human
[52:54] services budgeting, but we live within
this structural contradiction.
[53:00] We live within levy limits. We live
within these mandates and it's important
[53:04] for us to know that we didn't create it.
We can only manage so much within it.
[53:11] Um but what do we need to do to be
uh in front of this as far as state
[53:17] legislature goes and in front of county
boards. So I do this for human services
[53:22] directors across the state. I've been at
county boards in Eau Claire,
[53:27] Langlade, Lincoln, I forget where else
because county human services directors
[53:33] say I don't know what to do to educate
my board. They look at me like I need to
[53:37] be within my budget and say how can you
possibly come to a county board meeting
[53:42] without a balanced budget.
So, this is why we need to talk about it
[53:47] and make sure that um
we all understand.
[53:54] So, the structural mismatch.
So, on the costs and demand side,
[54:00] some of this will be familiar to some of
you.
[54:03] Service demand increases. So, that's not
just unique to human services. That's in
[54:07] other areas. The public demands certain
things um of us of counties.
[54:13] Um but we say that our client acuity is
rising, also. And I've been doing this
[54:19] for almost 30 years,
and I have seen far higher level of
[54:24] acuity with our patients than I've ever
seen before, much more difficult.
[54:29] Uh placement costs are accelerating. So,
we experience inflation
[54:34] in human services, counties. So, of
course, providers.
[54:39] Providers have to pay people.
Providers have to build buildings. So,
[54:43] the inflationary impact they pass on to
us, of course. We pay for placements for
[54:49] individuals within our human services
departments that were required to pay
[54:53] for.
Uh workforce costs are climbing. You
[54:57] know that. You voted on budgets,
wondering about health care costs,
[55:02] um advocating sometimes for uh
competitive wages so we can maintain the
[55:07] workforce that we have, but it costs us
money to do so.
[55:11] Um crisis response. So, human services
crisis response is expanding.
[55:17] Um we're required to do more in crisis
than we had been before.
[55:21] Um our mandates are growing.
So, I spent a little bit of time with
[55:27] the human service health and human
services board
[55:30] um with some new members going over just
what mandates are. And all of the
[55:35] mandates that we're responsible for. And
if I would have done the same thing 10,
[55:40] 15 years ago, there would have been
fewer.
[55:43] So, they are growing and we talk about
the unfunded mandates that exist within
[55:48] human services and it's a reality. And I
actually do have that same mandate and
[55:52] revenue document cuz I think I've been
doing it for about 15, 20 years. But
[55:56] there are more of them that exist.
Um the revenue authority is flat.
[56:02] So,
um those who have been on the board a
[56:05] long time or spent some time paying
attention to what our levy limits are,
[56:12] our levy is tied to net new
construction. So, you'll hear that, see
[56:16] that presented multiple times.
You get no more funding, right? You're
[56:21] not going to be able to tax for more
on the levy. That's it. It's net new
[56:26] construction, so it's flat. Shared
revenue incremental growth.
[56:31] So, we did have some progress on shared
revenue in 2023.
[56:37] I testified with Jonathan Delagrave, the
county exec from Racine and the county
[56:42] exec from Winnebago, Jon Damon at the
time, pushing for legislation to um pass
[56:50] the shared revenue change.
And we got it, but honestly, when we
[56:55] were there, we were talking to ourselves
saying, "Well, this is all we're going
[56:58] to get right now."
We need more, but we're going to take
[57:01] this little step with the legislature um
because it's better than nothing. And it
[57:06] does it's tied to inflation a little
bit.
[57:09] Uh but I think for Calumet County last
year or for this budget,
[57:15] shared revenue because of that bill may
be increased for us by about 30 to
[57:18] 40,000 dollars
in our total budget.
[57:22] Um state allocations are categorical
um and slow.
[57:28] And what I mean by that is the state
ties specific things to our funding.
[57:34] Requires us to spend it only on this,
which then as you can imagine ignores
[57:39] where maybe some of our increases are
coming from.
[57:43] Medicaid, [clears throat]
I won't get into the difficulty around
[57:47] Medicaid. It's an opportunity,
certainly.
[57:50] We have had some wins. That's a a
revenue that we can try to generate. Um
[57:55] but there's a risk with it. Uh and
county boards around the state are leery
[58:02] of trusting their leadership in human
services because a lot of times what it
[58:08] takes to get Medicaid dollars is staff.
And county boards are conservative
[58:13] saying, "Okay, so you're losing money,
but you want to add staff when the
[58:17] county administrator is standing in
front of us saying staff is the most
[58:20] expensive thing that we have." So, it
doesn't really always make sense to an
[58:24] elected official, right? So, there it's
opportunity to build those revenues, but
[58:28] it's it's a risk that people have to be
willing to take.
[58:32] And there's no stabilization mechanism.
There's nothing that addresses when we
[58:37] have things that go up our costs go up.
There's no revenue to generate to really
[58:43] stabilize in emergencies such as the
Lincoln Hills placements that I
[58:47] described.
>> [clears throat]
[58:51] » So, the revenue tools in counties and
why they fall short. So, here's the
[58:54] brief history lesson of county funding
in Wisconsin,
[58:58] if you didn't already know.
In the 1990s,
[59:02] which is when I started in Calumet
County,
[59:05] we had rising property tax era is what I
decided to call it on here because it's
[59:11] true.
Everything we did was tied to the
[59:14] property tax
because that's all we had.
[59:17] So, county boards were able to spend
what they need, respond to urgent needs
[59:22] within human services by taxing your
property taxpayers.
[59:26] Now, that was very,
um,
[59:32] I would say varying across the state
depending on the county board.
[59:37] Right? So, some county boards were
willing to put more money in certain
[59:40] things and some were not.
Some were choosing to do that in law
[59:45] enforcement and sheriff's office and
some were willing to do it in the human
[59:48] services area. But, regardless,
it was all on the property taxpayer.
[59:54] Um, I list things here, you know, that
there were no statutory caps, so we
[59:58] could fluctuate based on need. Um,
flexibility existed for us within the
[1:00:04] overall county budget, so we didn't have
to do things that way. We didn't have to
[1:00:09] send unreasonable amounts to the
taxpayer because you guys have to run
[1:00:13] for office. So, it still needed to be
somewhat reasonable, but it did exist
[1:00:17] with flexibility for us to respond to
those high needs.
[1:00:21] The 2000s, uh, is when levy limits
started to emerge. So, the state started
[1:00:27] looking at this saying, "The state of
Wisconsin puts too much on the property
[1:00:31] taxpayer. We have to address that in
some way."
[1:00:34] So, they started putting caps on what we
could generate for revenue
[1:00:40] and
didn't change the mandates.
[1:00:45] So, the state was intended to fully fund
county human services.
[1:00:51] There's nobody around probably that
really remembers that that was the the
[1:00:55] the way it all started is that these
certain dollar amounts, um,
[1:01:00] not just the levy,
but contracts that they had with
[1:01:04] counties was intended to fully fund
place placements like Lincoln Hills.
[1:01:08] Was intended to fully fund anything we
needed to do with our human services and
[1:01:12] they
began realizing that they couldn't
[1:01:15] afford it as a state.
Uh, so they started passing that on to
[1:01:18] the counties.
Shared revenue was created in 2000s as
[1:01:23] well.
And it exists, but it doesn't really
[1:01:27] move with anything. It doesn't grow with
inflation, the 2000s version.
[1:01:33] And then in 2011,
we had Act 10. So, some of you
[1:01:39] remember that, were affected by that
professionally or otherwise.
[1:01:43] Uh certainly I remember that. It became
a time when the county had much more
[1:01:48] flexibility
around unions and how we paid staff and
[1:01:54] what we were required to do or what they
were required to do, but it allowed for
[1:01:58] some flexibility, but it also created a
completely different competitive
[1:02:02] workforce.
And in 2023, as I just described, the
[1:02:06] shared revenue reform occurred. Um but
it also came with some categorical
[1:02:13] restrictions.
I don't know how many of you have
[1:02:16] actually really looked at the impact of
the
[1:02:20] um
shared revenue reform bill in 2023.
[1:02:24] Don't have to be embarrassed to not
raise your hand, but I know that you
[1:02:27] were all supportive of it, right?
Because it gave us some money.
[1:02:32] But what it also did was it created all
kinds of requirements for us
[1:02:37] that said, "Well, you're only going to
get this money if you agree to take over
[1:02:43] a service from somebody else."
So, what require it would require us to,
[1:02:48] for example, if we wanted to do public
health for the city of Appleton,
[1:02:52] we would qualify for additional revenue
under the shared revenue reform. Do you
[1:02:57] think the city of Appleton's going to
want to give us public health?
[1:03:00] » No.
No.
[1:03:02] » And so, we hear often times from our
state legislature, "Why aren't you
[1:03:05] taking advantage of it? Why aren't you
taking advantage of it?" Like this was
[1:03:08] the this was the thing that was going to
save us all kinds of money. Like we
[1:03:12] could give our services to somebody else
to run.
[1:03:15] And they could get money or we could
take it and run it. So, it's in theory,
[1:03:19] it's not a bad idea, but it's still your
taxpayer's money.
[1:03:24] So, there's a parochial element to that
that's always going to exist unless we
[1:03:28] do something drastically different. But,
that that did not
[1:03:31] answer everything that we needed answer.
Uh property tax limits levy limits the
[1:03:37] core constraint this just shows you and
you've heard it from me year after year
[1:03:43] after year
Cali Mac County's typical levy growth
[1:03:47] because we are growing. We are one of
the lucky ones.
[1:03:52] And we're still only at
2.5 2.8 One lucky year, I think I can
[1:03:58] remember we were at 3%.
So, that's as much as we're going to
[1:04:02] get. Um and that's on a really good
year. Our neighbors last time did not
[1:04:07] fare as well. I think they were less
than 2% around the lake with Fond du Lac
[1:04:12] and Winnebago. Uh disappointing because
it's all tied to the net new
[1:04:16] construction.
This is important because of course our
[1:04:19] health and human services cost of
inflation is closer to 7%.
[1:04:24] So, revenue flat costs are going up. The
levy relief for crisis years is 0%.
[1:04:32] So, it doesn't matter if we're in
crisis. Doesn't matter if we have high
[1:04:35] costs.
Um those revenues are not going to
[1:04:39] adjust with what we have going on.
[1:04:44] I wanted to make sure you saw the
inflation versus the net new
[1:04:47] construction.
Um I do put this in your budget
[1:04:51] packet every year
because I it's just an important visual
[1:04:56] for you to understand that the county
net new construction, that orange line
[1:05:03] is better
that's why I'm saying we're one of the
[1:05:06] lucky ones than the gray line on the
bottom which is your Wisconsin overall
[1:05:11] Wisconsin net new construction, which is
flat.
[1:05:15] You look at the blue line, those are
annual CPI.
[1:05:21] And the reason I I like and hate this
slide is because people misconstrue the
[1:05:27] ending, the '24 '25 as if oh, that gap's
gotten smaller.
[1:05:31] It It really hasn't.
The hurt on CPI occurred
[1:05:37] '20, '21, '22, '23.
It's not growing as fast, but the impact
[1:05:43] is still there on our expenses. We
didn't get less expensive.
[1:05:47] I mean, things aren't drastically going
down. I know everybody's excited about
[1:05:50] gas prices, but we don't all of a sudden
say, oh, we're paying less for health
[1:05:53] insurance, or we're paying less for our
employees, or we're paying less for
[1:05:56] providers. That's not the way it works.
So, this is just a very good visual for
[1:06:01] everybody to understand. Levy limits are
not sustainable
[1:06:04] when your human services department is
mandated to provide service.
[1:06:11] Shared revenue and state aids,
incremental gains, structural gaps. So,
[1:06:15] this is just another way to show you
that
[1:06:19] the levy shared revenue growth
small. We made some minor gains with the
[1:06:25] shared revenue reform. That's what you
see in '23 '24.
[1:06:29] But your your HHS expenditures continue
to
[1:06:33] grow beyond
the revenue amounts.
[1:06:39] I wanted to put sales tax on here. It's
not always It's not as relevant for
[1:06:44] Calumet.
But across the state, if you don't know
[1:06:48] this,
most counties that had sales tax that
[1:06:52] have had it forever
pay for operations.
[1:06:57] I would tell you that's not a
sustainable model. It's not a good idea,
[1:07:01] but they did it many, many years ago out
of need because the levy limits
[1:07:06] occurred. They were already beyond what
they could pay for. Calumet, what I else
[1:07:11] I'll give all the credit to everybody
that I inherited it from, had a fiscally
[1:07:15] conservative board
that really maintained a very good
[1:07:21] balance for us to come in and then make
sales tax only about capital projects,
[1:07:27] not about operations.
So, this is not intended for you to
[1:07:31] think, "Oh gosh, now he's thinking
operations should be paid with sales tax
[1:07:35] money." That's not that at all.
But, it is the reality across the state
[1:07:39] except for the few of us that were
around the lake and Waukesha,
[1:07:43] I think was one that didn't. Um they are
in an advantage
[1:07:50] per se over us
uh because they're taking those sales
[1:07:54] tax dollars and applying them as they
need because it grows with inflation.
[1:07:59] You've seen our sales tax number. It's
pretty good.
[1:08:03] Um but, this is a reality across the
state in other counties that human
[1:08:07] services face in county boards have to
decide how to apply those sales tax
[1:08:11] dollars cuz they actually will pay for
people, positions, placements, things
[1:08:15] within HHS.
[1:08:19] So, there's a there's a structural
divide there as well.
[1:08:26] I talked a little bit about Lincoln
Hills. It's important for you to
[1:08:28] understand the mandates at a very high
level.
[1:08:32] I just need you to know all of the
things that you see on this slide right
[1:08:37] now are what we pay attention to on a
regular basis because these will break
[1:08:42] the budget.
Uh we may come in like I did in 2003 and
[1:08:47] think we have a good plan. We have one
placement for Lincoln Hills and other
[1:08:50] placements that are necessary, but we
don't control where people move,
[1:08:55] where they decide to live.
So, a very expensive
[1:08:59] youth or an adult could live in Fond du
Lac, Manitowoc, Winnebago, Sheboygan,
[1:09:06] Milwaukee and move here
and they are now our financial
[1:09:11] responsibility and I never even knew
they were existed.
[1:09:15] How many people remember Ray Brock,
County Board member?
[1:09:18] » Ray Brock.
>> Ray Brock was the one at that meeting in
[1:09:22] 2003
that said and he was a he was a good
[1:09:26] friend of my dad's.
He pointed at me and he said, "You
[1:09:30] should have known
with today's technology." Now, this is
[1:09:34] 2003, okay? With today's technology, you
should have known that that was going to
[1:09:39] happen.
And I said, "Based on what? The
[1:09:42] actuaries that we have trying to help us
to determine we're a county, we're not
[1:09:46] an insurance company, right?" But it
just it just showed me that we have a
[1:09:50] lot to teach
and to say that, "Well, I couldn't I
[1:09:55] can't even predict who's going to move
here."
[1:09:57] And we have had that within the last
couple of years where we've had very
[1:10:01] expensive people relocate to Calumet
County and they're on your dime.
[1:10:07] Uh and you're obviously not going to
say, "Well, you should move back or find
[1:10:10] a way for it." We don't play those games
ethically or morally. We're going to
[1:10:14] provide the service that's mandated, but
we don't control where they move. So, it
[1:10:18] becomes a very tricky situation.
[1:10:24] Yeah.
>> [laughter]
[1:10:27] » So, uh we also don't control the courts.
You know, the courts make decisions. I
[1:10:31] got the call
I think it was last week.
[1:10:35] Uh one of our youth committed a serious
crime.
[1:10:38] The um District Attorney's office called
and said, "Well, I want you to hear it
[1:10:42] from me directly that I am going to
recommend that we blow your budget
[1:10:46] because there's a placement that needs
to occur at Lincoln Hills with a young
[1:10:49] man and probably his brother, so that's
two possibly.
[1:10:53] Um
and we don't have any control over that
[1:10:56] and it's hard for us to go before a
judge and recommend something else in
[1:11:00] certain situations when it's just
dangerous for the individual to be in
[1:11:04] the community.
We try, um, but we don't have control
[1:11:08] over the court's decision. I tell that
to the judge often. I said, "You're the
[1:11:13] judge.
We have We don't have to like your
[1:11:15] decisions, but we have to live by them,
follow them, and in some instances we
[1:11:20] have to pay for them as well
financially."
[1:11:24] Um, mental health cases in-patient costs
aren't as bad, but there's a funding gap
[1:11:30] for crisis.
Um,
[1:11:33] law enforcement is affected by human
services, um, if funding is an issue and
[1:11:39] staffing is an issue because they're the
guys that are out there with our mental
[1:11:43] health patients, assessing for safety,
waiting for us to find placements in
[1:11:48] hospital settings that are virtually
impossible to get,
[1:11:52] um, if they're unwilling to take an
individual.
[1:11:56] Um, workforce economics, that I think
you're familiar with. Um, health care
[1:12:01] costs, uh, drive what we do.
Um, we had this year was the first year
[1:12:07] that I think I've been doing this job
that it's been a 0% increase.
[1:12:12] Um, which I mean, saves saves us a lot
of money. We didn't get a reduction, but
[1:12:17] it's better than the 10, 12, you know,
15% increases we've been experiencing.
[1:12:25] This is out of the green book.
So, I've showed this So, if you haven't
[1:12:31] seen the green book yet, you will.
Everybody will get one. We,
[1:12:35] um, talk from some of the items within
the green book
[1:12:39] at budget time.
I have shared this slide with county
[1:12:43] boards when I've presented human
services funding. This one's probably
[1:12:47] really hard for you to see.
But,
[1:12:50] I re- I rearranged it with the
permission of
[1:12:54] um Forward Analytics who puts the book
out. I called and said, "I want to
[1:12:58] rearrange the slide
because I want to show lowest per capita
[1:13:03] to highest per capita because every time
I've gone to a county board
[1:13:08] where they've been struggling with human
services financing they want to know
[1:13:13] "Why does Racine have it all figured out
and only pays $161 per capita? And
[1:13:19] what's wrong with Menominee when it's
$799
[1:13:23] per capita?"
So, this only tells you one like
[1:13:27] Yeah.
James is like, "Yeah, right. You were
[1:13:30] there."
[1:13:34] Exactly. Right.
>> [laughter]
[1:13:39] » Yes. So, it doesn't tell the whole
story.
[1:13:41] Right? We're always in the middle. We're
about 387. I don't know what we are in
[1:13:45] here. 378 transposed. 378 on this one.
So, this just tells a little bit of a
[1:13:52] story. It doesn't tell the whole story.
You understand that with data of all
[1:13:55] sorts, right? So, different things
within tell a different story, but what
[1:14:00] board member what jumps out at board
members or what jumps out at the public
[1:14:03] is, "How can this be less money? How can
this be less expensive?" Um
[1:14:08] and across the state human services
accounts for about 1/3 of the entire
[1:14:14] county budget county by county.
It's it's the most volatile and the most
[1:14:19] expensive thing that you have going.
And it's
[1:14:23] seriously affected by how counties are
funded in the state of Wisconsin. And
[1:14:27] it's important for you just to have an
understanding of that and then what we
[1:14:30] can do about it. Here's something you're
also you see this one every year from me
[1:14:34] at budget time.
And I show this to human services
[1:14:38] directors because I think sometimes
human services gets a bad rap because of
[1:14:43] mandates. You can set a budget
for the sheriff's office
[1:14:49] and they can pretty much keep it.
Stick to it.
[1:14:52] Uh because it's really mostly staff. I
mean, we made the decision on the jail
[1:14:57] and that's an expensive venture, but we
knew it. Certain fixed costs are going
[1:15:01] to go with that. But their staffing,
unless there's significant overtime, but
[1:15:05] that's typically because they're lower
staffed overall.
[1:15:09] So, they have to make up for it in
corrections or on patrol. But it's a
[1:15:12] pretty fixed amount. But typically, they
cost you more on the total tax levy.
[1:15:18] Um so, they're 8 and 1/2 million. Health
and Human Services here is 5 million.
[1:15:23] That's assuming that HHS doesn't jump up
another million dollars
[1:15:28] above budget because of those Lincoln
Hills placements.
[1:15:35] So,
what happens?
[1:15:38] Yeah, go ahead.
[1:15:43] Yes.
It's now $1,268
[1:15:47] per day per child or per youth.
The state legislature
[1:15:53] in this budget
wanted to at least double that rate.
[1:16:00] Which would have busted many counties
financially. So, when our legislators
[1:16:05] come here like Ron Tusler
and I tell them, "Do you realize what
[1:16:08] that's doing?" Cuz that's a state
facility. So, they're they're paying
[1:16:12] themselves.
But we're paying them the additional
[1:16:15] rate. So, Governor Evers vetoed it
thankfully
[1:16:20] and kept us at the rate we're at now.
That's the same amount we were before.
[1:16:24] Their costs are up.
Um they
[1:16:28] just like anything else, right? It's
dangerous. They've had some major
[1:16:33] uh
crimes occur with staff and against
[1:16:38] staff.
Physical,
[1:16:41] uh I know of a man that worked there
that had a brain injury because of being
[1:16:46] attacked by a youth.
So, it becomes
[1:16:50] not so popular to say we're not going to
pay for the higher costs,
[1:16:54] but we're at We won this one.
Um
[1:16:58] if we didn't have to have them to that
extent and the state could figure out
[1:17:01] how to do it,
it would be better. We've pushed back
[1:17:04] about why are we paying for it. We've
pushed back about you need to pay for
[1:17:08] Meet us halfway, pay for more. And this
is all funded This is in the weeds a
[1:17:13] bit, but it's all funded by youth aids,
which
[1:17:18] was supposed to pay 100% of our costs,
never has since I've been here, and it
[1:17:24] is the worst funding
uh that we've ever received as counties
[1:17:31] for
um corrections type placements. It's
[1:17:34] It's just not grown. The state's
unwilling to move it up in any way.
[1:17:40] Did you have a question?
[1:17:45] That's been going on probably for 12
years or more.
[1:17:54] Yep.
[1:17:58] Well,
so we were We were slotted to have one
[1:18:02] in our area in Brown County,
and then Brown County got us all
[1:18:06] together and said, "Okay, who's willing
to do this and participate?" Well, they
[1:18:11] wanted us to to pay for it.
And I was I was one that was unwilling,
[1:18:16] and then eventually Brown County became
unwilling to do so.
[1:18:20] Um I think
the intent of that was to get the youth
[1:18:25] in facilities closer to their homes.
Uh because connection to their parents
[1:18:30] and their family and improving things,
as you know, gets them home sooner and
[1:18:35] uh changes behavior, you would hope. The
real intention of Lincoln Hills is a
[1:18:39] safety and containment.
And once you get beyond the safety and
[1:18:43] containment need, what are you going to
do? They have to go back out into the
[1:18:46] community. So, it requires
a family
[1:18:50] of some sort. And if they don't have a
family, a placement of some sort. Um,
[1:18:56] but it's it's not really moved because
it takes a lot of money to do that.
[1:19:03] Yeah, that's what I think she was
indicating in the southern part. So, um,
[1:19:07] there's more to be done on that.
I am really reluctant to be overly
[1:19:12] supportive of county funding state
institutional placements.
[1:19:17] I mean, building a state institution
that we're going to have to pay for it
[1:19:20] doesn't make any sense to me.
If they were to fix the funding model,
[1:19:24] um, or if they were just to build it in
our area for the right reason, then I
[1:19:28] think we could get behind it. But we
under And then I can go back and show
[1:19:32] the chart again, under completely flat
revenue,
[1:19:37] it makes no sense for them to look to us
to help pay for these things when we're
[1:19:42] barely paying for the placements and and
service to the clients that we have
[1:19:47] right now.
[1:19:54] Yep.
[1:19:56] Trempealeau, yep. So, that's one of the
behavioral health ones. So, here the
[1:20:01] mechanism, that's why when I say it's
not always a it's not a management
[1:20:05] problem or it's not always a management
problem.
[1:20:08] Sometimes
directors, I mean, they're responsible
[1:20:12] ultimately for the bottom line of that
budget, right? You guys will hold them
[1:20:16] responsible for that.
Sometimes they're unaware
[1:20:20] of placements at Trempealeau ahead of
time.
[1:20:24] And that's I think inexcusable. I think
they need to be made aware. They need to
[1:20:28] have systems in place that because then
they should be in front of the board if
[1:20:33] they need to be or their boss, the exec
or the administrator if they need to be.
[1:20:37] And sometimes the the place the
placement's appropriate. I mean, every
[1:20:41] time it occurs it should be appropriate.
But we here, I will tell you, we are
[1:20:47] working on discharge planning before
they even get there.
[1:20:51] Because
facilities
[1:20:54] as I'm sure you will understand want
certain placements
[1:20:59] to keep their business going.
And we need to be very aware that yes,
[1:21:04] they're not going to be telling us
something that's not a benefit to the
[1:21:08] patient, right? But they're also not
moving as fast as we want them to
[1:21:14] on some things.
Because ultimately the goal is community
[1:21:20] living.
Community placements. That's another
[1:21:22] thing I inherited here in our
chronically mentally ill
[1:21:26] um system from Mary Kennedy who was the
director here,
[1:21:30] um
had no placements for our CSP. They were
[1:21:35] all in their own independent community
placements.
[1:21:38] Uh they worked hard and they staffed up.
That's why our staffing levels look good
[1:21:42] here, but we don't pay for those big
placements because eventually
[1:21:45] the people need to be living in their
own community and contributing to their
[1:21:49] own community independently.
That's the right thing to do by the
[1:21:53] patients.
Um
[1:21:56] So,
[1:21:59] what actually happens when we have these
financial issues, we can't cut mandates
[1:22:05] because we have no control over them.
So, we don't go after mandated services.
[1:22:10] Um we can't stop placements that are
necessary or crisis.
[1:22:16] Um
but what we do
[1:22:19] is things like hiring freezes.
So, if we have vacancies, we hold off on
[1:22:26] position.
We rely on those vacancy savings. If we
[1:22:31] know there's a high placement and we
know we have vacancies, we may not
[1:22:34] actively recruit for a period of time, 6
months, sometimes a year. I've had place
[1:22:40] positions open for 2 years
waiting for expenses to turn around.
[1:22:45] We delay on IT and infrastructure
modernization.
[1:22:50] We have had the same system
that we were the first county to
[1:22:54] purchase it from Dane County Mental
Health Center. I was a brand new
[1:22:58] employee here and I was charged with IT
modernization.
[1:23:03] Now I laugh because I'm like the last
person you'd want to ask.
[1:23:07] » [laughter]
>> I've been promoted to the level of
[1:23:09] incompetence, like they don't let you do
things IT related anymore.
[1:23:13] Right? I think I asked Chris, could you
tee up my presentation cuz I don't even
[1:23:16] know how to find it on the laptop.
Um, but we've had the same system. We
[1:23:22] still have that one since 1990 7.
Um, increased caseloads per worker,
[1:23:28] that's what we do when we hold staff
vacancies or we do hiring freezes. And
[1:23:33] then we burn out and then we have the
turnover cycle. Um,
[1:23:37] the hidden cost to those things, of
course,
[1:23:40] increased jail utilization. How many of
you heard
[1:23:45] Sheriff's office say, "All of our
inmates have mental health issues."
[1:23:50] "All of our inmates have drug and
alcohol issues."
[1:23:53] Yeah, well, it's a direct result of the
state doesn't fund human services
[1:23:57] treatment staffing levels.
They end up in the jail, in the
[1:24:01] correction system. There was a Medicaid
managed care study done in a southern
[1:24:06] state that's going to escape me now.
Um, that showed increased utilization of
[1:24:11] jails because of managed care for mental
health in their Medicaid system. I mean,
[1:24:16] it is just a fact.
Um, emergency room hospital costs. So,
[1:24:20] we impact the system costs for hospitals
because they're spending a lot of time
[1:24:27] with our individuals in emergency rooms
or with our elderly that are on
[1:24:32] emergency protective placements.
Law enforcement time I explained to you
[1:24:36] a little bit. School disruptions, so we
have youth delinquents in schools
[1:24:40] causing issues for
principals, guidance, police school
[1:24:45] liaison officers, the hidden cost to
those um
[1:24:49] could be related back to visible
response and cuts in service.
[1:24:53] Um we always defer prevention
because the state never pays us for
[1:24:58] prevention.
And we all know that preventive care,
[1:25:02] just like anything in the medical
system, human services, health and human
[1:25:06] services is no different.
That's where the money should go, but
[1:25:10] instead of Forget how we say that.
Instead of um
[1:25:15] cutting the things to prevent the fire,
we're cutting the things that put the
[1:25:20] fires out
because we end up paying for these deep
[1:25:23] end costs because we don't have the
prevention uh money to do anything about
[1:25:27] it.
I have not recommended prevention
[1:25:30] programs here, and we're pretty We're
usually in a pretty good place
[1:25:34] financially. We have some
time, sometimes if caseloads are low,
[1:25:39] that we can use some prevention. Real
prevention programs is what I'm talking
[1:25:43] about.
Um and then the community trust, I mean,
[1:25:46] across the state
um health and human services struggles
[1:25:51] in certain areas because they're not
responsive and they're not preventing,
[1:25:55] and they feel like
um the community members sometimes or
[1:25:59] family members are thinking that we're
not doing what we are meant to do.
[1:26:03] Um Medicaid tool, I won't get into this
with you tonight, but um other than
[1:26:10] maybe just the risk part of it.
So, we go after For those of you who
[1:26:14] know me, I will go after every Medicaid
dollar that we've ever had. I've been a
[1:26:18] part of state developing Medicaid
programs to benefit benefit counties.
[1:26:25] And whether or not that's always a great
thing to say out loud, it depends
[1:26:30] because some of those Medicaid
dollars that we grab, it's very
[1:26:35] complicated and difficult to get them.
Um but we'll go after everyone because
[1:26:40] that's all we have.
But staff have to
[1:26:45] hired at times to do that. And so we
have to chase those dollars. And we
[1:26:48] sometimes have to expand a service to be
able to get Medicaid revenue, which
[1:26:53] seems kind of counter indicated.
Um and audit exposure.
[1:26:58] There are many times when the state's
like, well,
[1:27:01] yeah, we said that you could do that,
but now that the Medicaid audit's
[1:27:04] occurring, we're going to need to claw
back some dollars. This never happened
[1:27:08] here.
Um we've never had to pay anything back,
[1:27:11] but Marinette and some other counties
around us have had to pay back
[1:27:16] audit dollars, which I don't know is
entirely all of their their fault.
[1:27:22] Um so what actually needs to happen, and
this is we'll get into this more at the
[1:27:28] WCA conference, what we need elected
officials to do to Paul's question about
[1:27:33] have you ever fought back about Lincoln
Hills and the rate,
[1:27:37] we need levy limit modernization in the
state of Wisconsin.
[1:27:42] 100%.
I know you know that, um but it is such
[1:27:47] a bigger issue as far as who we serve
and what we have to do.
[1:27:52] We don't have choices in A and health
and human services. We don't have a
[1:27:56] choice to allow a person to continue to
be dangerous in the community.
[1:28:03] Um we don't. I mean, we're required by a
law to respond to that individual,
[1:28:08] essentially take away their rights, put
them in a hospital, and manage them 6
[1:28:13] months a year,
maybe longer.
[1:28:16] Um and it requires money to do that. So,
um levy growth is not
[1:28:23] um
eliminating the levy limit is not going
[1:28:26] to happen.
So, we take the little wins that we can
[1:28:29] get, but we need something um to
recognize that mandate growth and costs
[1:28:33] are going up. So, we need a revenue
somehow
[1:28:37] beyond just the property taxpayer.
Um human services can do things. Part of
[1:28:42] this was done for directors, so those
slides are still here, but they can do
[1:28:47] things that they're not right now, which
is statewide contract negotiations for
[1:28:52] providers.
So, not necessarily Lincoln Hills
[1:28:55] because they're a state
um
[1:28:58] correction facility, but other private
organizations, we can negotiate with
[1:29:05] them um to create more favorable
contracts.
[1:29:09] It's um
it's a tricky balance that we have to do
[1:29:13] because of course we need the providers.
So, you need providers to be able to
[1:29:17] make money, right? They have to be able
to sustain be sustainable um to serve
[1:29:21] our clients, so we can't um
cut them too much cuz otherwise it uh we
[1:29:27] don't have the placements available.
Stabilization fund, possibly
[1:29:31] um we could advocate for that. That's a
human services thing.
[1:29:36] Um WCA, of course, um I think we have to
have a unified message across all 72
[1:29:42] counties. I think when Alice and I have
been talking about things like data
[1:29:45] centers,
um
[1:29:48] WCA seems to be willing to do things
more to collect all 72 counties
[1:29:53] together. It's difficult to be a
counties association when you have 72
[1:29:57] counties with varying opinions. Um but
we need to kind of find places to meet
[1:30:01] in the middle. Legislative alignment,
levy reform,
[1:30:06] we have to do that.
I wanted to show you this rate this
[1:30:10] chart. Um
I don't remember if I've ever shown this
[1:30:14] to you at budget time, but I've realized
um after the last budget, I'm definitely
[1:30:19] going to.
Because a board member called me and
[1:30:22] said, "Wait a minute.
You told me the rate went down.
[1:30:26] And I'm getting calls from my
constituents about the tax rate.
[1:30:31] And this is a very important visual for
you to see and understand why state
[1:30:38] legislators never want to change the
levy limit.
[1:30:43] Because that red line is your county tax
levy.
[1:30:47] Flat.
Right? Like I've shown in previous
[1:30:51] charts. That orange is the equalized
value.
[1:30:56] So, equalized value of your property
owners, you've seen your bill,
[1:31:00] your tax bill.
The blue line is the tax rate.
[1:31:06] So, they can come before you
and you can go to your constituents and
[1:31:11] say, "We've cut the tax rate."
Yeah, well, that's how the math works.
[1:31:16] That's what I want board members to see
because Yeah, you're laughing, but it's
[1:31:20] true.
It's because of the levy limit. We can't
[1:31:25] raise it.
The valuation goes up
[1:31:30] and the rate goes down.
So, they aren't going to be willing to
[1:31:36] change that unless there's a significant
change in their perspective of the tax
[1:31:41] rates all that matters.
Because that's This chart doesn't change
[1:31:46] under This is a result of the levy limit
calculation.
[1:31:50] This is why it is the way it is.
It shows that your property tax rates
[1:31:56] are less, but the equalized value in in
most recent years continues to go up, so
[1:32:00] sometimes those bills go up even though
the rates go down, and that's not even
[1:32:04] to um bring into the calculation about
school on that tax bill.
[1:32:10] But, that's just an awareness of the
political climate. I don't think we're
[1:32:13] going to get the state legislature to
change that. So, we have to go after
[1:32:18] something else.
Um
[1:32:22] this gets in what directors can actually
do.
[1:32:25] Um
but, we have structural constraints. Um
[1:32:29] you've heard us say this before.
It's It's much more of a reality in
[1:32:34] certain areas where there's mandates,
which is human services.
[1:32:38] Um it affects other departments, of
course, because if Chris wants to add
[1:32:43] capacity to GIS, he may have to wait a
couple years until Health and Human
[1:32:49] Services levy is less dependent on you
mean the mandate shrink. So, it affects
[1:32:54] decisions that we make to other
departments.
[1:32:57] Um that are on the tax levy.
History of county funding is a history
[1:33:02] of mandates outpacing revenue tools.
It's a reality. We need to be talking
[1:33:06] about it, and we need to share the data.
We need a new revenue
[1:33:10] um
beyond shared revenue reform.
[1:33:14] We need to provide the data. We need to
collaborate as counties.
[1:33:18] We do some things with human services
day at the capital. That was Alice's.
[1:33:22] So, we do go and advocate, which is a
wonderful thing. But, I know I've been
[1:33:26] there with some counties that are
bringing their own message
[1:33:30] because it affects them much more than
the statewide um advocacy does. So,
[1:33:36] we have to be better about that.
Um
[1:33:41] it's the end of That's the fast
high-level version of county funds and
[1:33:45] HHS.
[1:33:52] And you'll get more.
I know you're looking forward to it.
[1:33:56] You'll get the countywide one.
>> Next.
[1:34:54] » And mine's broke.
Mine's broke. I can't vote.
[1:35:34] » Yes. Um
I called Todd earlier today, or I
[1:35:38] actually called Emmy, and he said he
would give me like an open mic. Um
[1:35:42] my wife was diagnosed with cancer last
August.
[1:35:46] They took uh most of the month of
September and October to decide what to
[1:35:50] treat her with.
>> Supervisor Miller, we need to deal with
[1:35:54] this motion first.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know.
[1:35:57] » I please you voted your ballot so it's
>> Joe, we're just trying to carry you on.
[1:36:01] Okay.
>> All right. We passed yes, 14 yes, seven
[1:36:05] absent so that has been approved. The
next appointment is the re-
[1:36:10] re-appointment of Kevin Fischer whose
term will expire June 30th, 2026 and his
[1:36:16] new term will expire July 30th, 2029. I
need a motion to adopt.
[1:36:25] » I was just saying I don't know.
[1:36:30] » Someone give me a motion.
>> voted on all of them.
[1:36:33] » Oh, we did.
[1:36:36] We did? I did not ask for that. Okay.
All right, then I guess it's all
[1:36:41] approved.
>> be okay.
[1:36:43] » Okay.
All right.
[1:36:46] Now we have an appointment while you did
that one, too.
[1:36:50] Lynette Malburg?
>> It It's the way it was set up.
[1:36:53] » All right, then all three of them were
approved. Lynette Malburg was gone to
[1:36:58] the zoning board of adjustments and her
term will expire July June 30th, 2029.
[1:37:05] » to confirm that there's no objection to
that.
[1:37:07] » Is there any objection to any of those?
Seeing none.
[1:37:12] » Okay. I just We just want to make sure
that
[1:37:15] » They're approved. Okay.
All right.
[1:37:19] No, we aren't going to meet in July.
>> Yep, so just go in the you know, right.
[1:37:24] So you don't have to We don't have to
indicate that at this point anyway.
[1:37:27] » All right, the next regular meeting will
be July. Whether we'll have one or not,
[1:37:31] you will be notified.
So consideration of adjust- additional
[1:37:36] items uh for the next board meeting,
does anyone have anything they'd like to
[1:37:40] add?
[1:37:44] If you do, please let myself know or
or Todd. And Supervisor Miller, you had
[1:37:50] something you wanted to
to
[1:37:53] address.
>> Okay, thank you. My hearing aids are
[1:37:56] about run out, so I'm not hearing very
well. I've had them in since probably
[1:37:59] 4:30 this morning.
So, as I said before, my wife had to
[1:38:03] deal with cancer a second time.
And through all of this, I started
[1:38:08] trying to get as much done with the
Veterans Administration. Michelle and
[1:38:11] Kevin been very helpful. So, I'll I'll
cut straight on that. Her family was
[1:38:16] tremendous to get through this. I got
kids that live in five states out of 10.
[1:38:21] One deceased. So, we're making it
through. Everybody's doing okay.
[1:38:24] My one son from Texas is still up here.
And so, we'll be okay. So, VA
[1:38:30] Michelle got appointments for me, things
I should have been doing 60 years ago if
[1:38:33] they'd have had their act together.
So, I get stuff like I made an
[1:38:37] appointment at Grand Chute. I had to go
there to make it cuz we can't get
[1:38:41] through on the phone. Am I too loud?
>> No, you're good.
[1:38:44] » So, my neighbor Rick has the same
problem. We can't connect. So, we go
[1:38:47] there to get an appointment. That very
afternoon, they call me from VA, and
[1:38:51] that would be on the 26th of May, saying
that you have an appointment in Ionia
[1:38:57] for your hearing test. I says, "11:00
there and 3:00 at Grand Chute, it going
[1:39:02] to work. It going to work." So, they
switched it to
[1:39:06] to Monday, and we went to Menominee. And
I had a guy drive me cuz I spent some
[1:39:12] long days. Okay? Had a guy drive me. So,
for 31 minutes, I'm in a booth. I worked
[1:39:17] at a mill way out here just south of
This particular time, don't sit down.
[1:39:20] They throw them in your ears. Okay? Now,
when the when the when the beep comes
[1:39:25] up, you have to say the word. Used to
press a button.
[1:39:29] I've got Agent Orange symptoms here ever
since Vietnam. I've never gotten any
[1:39:33] compensation.
We might be getting close. So, anyway,
[1:39:36] say the word. I need some water, man. I
need some water. At least four times
[1:39:39] through that 12 minutes. Then the next
one,
[1:39:43] say the word girl. So, you got to say
say the word lake. Same thing, water.
[1:39:48] Used to be able to press the button. I'm
sitting down, okay.
[1:39:52] Oh, about 12 minutes of that, and gal's
outside the tube just taking a
[1:39:56] recording. And then the last one again
is the little more deeper thing, first
[1:39:59] your left ear and then your right ear.
And you got to say yes. You got to say
[1:40:04] yes.
Man, really drained me out. So, 31
[1:40:06] minutes in there. Let's get out of here.
We go home. So, I submit my mileage.
[1:40:11] They let us know they pay 41 cents a
mile, way behind the 77. So, the 217
[1:40:17] miles, yeah, a week later I got the
check. I wouldn't cash it right away, it
[1:40:20] was good. We burned it in the bar. So,
anyway, took it. So, the next thing
[1:40:24] then, last week Thursday, I get a call
from a guy in Texas scheduling
[1:40:30] appointments, paperwork from Indiana for
the VA, saying that I have an
[1:40:34] appointment on the 15th. So, this was on
Thursday of last week.
[1:40:40] I have appointment on the 15th in X, you
know, XONIA. It's still in my
[1:40:44] Oconomowoc. Okay, so that is my
um
[1:40:50] Yeah, my uh PSTS, okay. Never had that.
Never had that in 60 years.
[1:40:55] I spent Vietnam killing a lot of gooks
because that's what we were trained to
[1:40:58] do is kill.
We never had one session at all was to
[1:41:01] come back into society.
When I extended over there, yeah, I I
[1:41:05] did it because I had guys that couldn't
leave. I was pretty strong. I made rank
[1:41:08] pretty good. I would see guys get
killed. So, I did pretty good. I stayed
[1:41:12] an extra 4 months and 4 days.
So,
[1:41:15] out of all of this, that's the only one
thing thing I got is my wife. I met
[1:41:19] through a guy that flunked out of
Sacramento State. He was about a month
[1:41:22] behind in basic training. Eventually
over there, somebody said, "Hey, there's
[1:41:26] a guy over there that's looking for a
Wisconsin guy." He had some gals take
[1:41:30] her APO addresses that he flunked out of
college and write to because he got a
[1:41:34] discharge when his father got killed in
an auto accident while he was waiting to
[1:41:38] come to Nam. Okay? So, Peg and I met 13
and 1/2 months later. We wrote letters.
[1:41:44] Um
I found the last one that she wrote to
[1:41:47] me, and we also the grandkids found the
last one I wrote to her
[1:41:52] 8 days before we got married in '69.
So, we produced only 10 kids.
[1:41:58] Had a big party on the 50th anniversary.
We got dozens of cards showing Peggy do
[1:42:02] 50 more.
Yeah, we were
[1:42:05] deeply attached. She was from
California. She worked as a G4 as a
[1:42:10] sophomore in college.
Back then it was generals from
[1:42:13] Washington would tell them ordered us
ordered out supplies, military uniform.
[1:42:17] So, they would they would actually have
to type out the invoice and do it.
[1:42:20] That's what she was good at, okay? Uh
she took me horseback riding. We got
[1:42:24] pictures of that. First time ever.
She had a trained horse. And if I
[1:42:28] smarted off, she says, "Do it again.
I'll have the horse take the tail and
[1:42:31] knock your head off." Well, it did.
Bless you. Yeah. So, good memories.
[1:42:35] She's in a better place.
She suffered immensely from December on.
[1:42:40] One test after another. Let's switch to
chemo. What we're doing. Let's do this.
[1:42:43] Let's take her to Madison for radiation.
She was treated like a used tire.
[1:42:49] Pretty much. Yeah.
And I remember going in to Encircle AMC,
[1:42:54] Theta Clark five different times from
October emergencies because she had
[1:42:59] problems with her liver and all of that
retained. So, they had to start pumping
[1:43:02] it out every four or five days. 5.75,
6.75. And it was a matter of sometimes
[1:43:09] they had to be pretty delicate. They had
to get the layer body right so they
[1:43:11] didn't injure the other organs. They
they physically went in and siphoned it
[1:43:15] out four or five six hours.
And then they had to start putting
[1:43:18] protein back in because she was getting
too weak. So, they had to keep her extra
[1:43:22] hours and and put that
form of protein back in.
[1:43:26] So, what are we going to do? So, the
kids got just just baffled. It's like,
[1:43:30] "What are we going to do? What can we
count on? It's in doctor's hands.
[1:43:33] And some some fail. So, my wife failed
on other treatments, you know.
[1:43:37] But, I've seen boards, unfortunately,
all these centers have like 40 boards.
[1:43:41] We do it every Friday, and by 7:30,
8:00, 39 of the 40 are all lit up. In
[1:43:46] other words, people are in treatment.
And a lot of people know that. They're
[1:43:48] in treatment rooms.
I started seeing a guy that's from
[1:43:51] Amboy.
Every Friday, he'd come in. First 2
[1:43:55] weeks, yeah, I pretty good. And then,
all of a sudden, 1 week later, he came
[1:43:59] in and he's got a cane.
A month later after that, he's in a
[1:44:02] wheelchair. And the the nurse said,
"Hey, how you doing? How you doing
[1:44:04] today, Homer?"
Well,
[1:44:06] she used to say, "I'm better than
nothing." What did that mean?
[1:44:10] His wife had been coming in, too. I
didn't realize she died the week before.
[1:44:14] What a suffering is going on in this
world. Why do we have so much cancer in
[1:44:18] this country? I've traveled other
countries. My daughter traveled There's
[1:44:21] no cancer in Okinawa. There's no cancer
in Turkey. You know what I mean? Name
[1:44:25] some others. And And we can prove that.
There isn't. What are we doing wrong
[1:44:28] here? Is it the soils?
No, is it our sprays? I've got Agent
[1:44:32] Orange because the seven chemical
companies that were paid to produce it
[1:44:35] for the company for the government, we
sued them. 441,000 guys signed a suit
[1:44:40] with me in 1982.
15 months later, they all denied. They
[1:44:44] all got off. $180 million all went to
the 16
[1:44:47] All went to the 16 attorneys we had. We
didn't get a dime. So, ever since then,
[1:44:51] the Veterans Administration has been
kicking up, kicking like me and his
[1:44:55] patients, rating me. You know what I
mean? So, someday,
[1:44:58] I'm waiting on the one from my hearing
test. And two to three weeks which was a
[1:45:02] month ago yesterday, I have not gotten a
mail out of how my hearing test went.
[1:45:07] I've been probably deaf for 20 years.
Okay? Mostly.
[1:45:10] So,
the one yesterday said
[1:45:14] that in 48 hours, it'll be documented,
it'll be sent to your county veteran
[1:45:17] service officer. And Michelle knows
that. She's got me coming in Friday to
[1:45:21] do some special things. Okay? So, I
commend how good they're finally waking
[1:45:24] up on this county to do well. I We had a
real Dudley one back in the when I got
[1:45:29] old in '69.
He wasn't in his office six out of seven
[1:45:32] times. You know, I I think his last name
was chill. But and and other guys
[1:45:36] experienced the same thing.
>> Well,
[1:45:39] Supervisor Miller, on behalf of the
board, we certainly do
[1:45:43] offer our sympathy. I know how close you
and Peggy were.
[1:45:46] » Yeah, well,
thank you. Yeah, we're uh just to let
[1:45:49] you know, everybody's doing good. Uh we
got our family reunion on the 28th. And
[1:45:54] I just the rule is bring two or three
items that you don't that you want to
[1:45:58] give away, and then everybody will get
like a bid on it, and if they don't get
[1:46:01] given away, you take them home.
Everybody's fine. So, there'll be a
[1:46:04] probably 130, 150 people at that. So,
thank you for letting me speak, and we
[1:46:08] are survivors.
>> Thank you.
[1:46:11] » Thank you. Thank you very much.
[1:46:18] » Yeah, yeah.
>> Did you guys run the front of it? Are
[1:46:20] you guys aware of the highway committee?
Thank you.
[1:46:26] » Right. Right. You open your document