[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] If everyone can get a seat, we'll get started here.
[0:19] Okay, I like to call this meeting to order. The Moore County Board of
[0:25] Commissioners, a special public forum on land use. This time, I'd like to make
[0:32] sure that we welcome everyone here. We're glad you're here. We want to hear
[0:35] what you've got to say. In 2013 we had a land use plan that we formulated and one of the
[0:43] goals was to visit that land use plan every five to ten years well. You know we're eleven
[0:50] years out so we're a year late but we're visiting and what we're doing is trying
[0:55] to get your input as to what you want to see your county look like in the years
[1:00] to come. The current land use plan of course helps to guide our ordinances and
[1:06] our zoning. So what's been guiding us has got us from where we were 10 years
[1:13] ago or 11 years ago to where we are today. And we're one of the fastest
[1:17] growing counties in the state. I think the last time I heard one number
[1:21] seven fastest growing county. So we know we got some tweaking to do. We
[1:28] We always worry about infrastructure, schools, public safety.
[1:34] There's quite a few things that go into planning when you're trying to look at the future.
[1:39] Unfortunately, none of us have a crystal ball.
[1:41] If anyone has one we can borrow or you would love to donate to the county, we will take
[1:47] that at the end of the meeting.
[1:49] But I doubt that's going to happen.
[1:51] So the best thing we can do is get your input.
[1:54] We'll have probably a timeline.
[1:56] I think is anybody that wanted to speak did everybody who wanted to speak sign up
[2:01] is everybody needs to sign up.
[2:06] I can't see any more hands.
[2:08] So we have 14 signatures.
[2:11] So commissioners at this time.
[2:13] I like suggest we give them a time limit of let's say four minutes.
[2:19] That would give them plenty of time.
[2:21] I think so in a form of a motion four minute limit.
[2:25] I have a second from Commissioner Bonn-Cannon.
[2:27] Any discussion?
[2:28] All in favor say aye.
[2:30] Any opposed?
[2:32] Hearing none, that motion carries.
[2:33] We'll do a large four-minute time limit.
[2:37] Okay.
[2:38] At this time I want to turn it over.
[2:40] Oh, a couple of other things I wanted to say.
[2:44] This is our second one.
[2:45] We did one at Pinecrest and it was really good.
[2:48] We got some really good input.
[2:50] Very respectful.
[2:51] I love that about Moore County.
[2:52] people seem to love each other and even if they disagree and that is a rarity in
[2:57] this world that you guys are that way and I guess that's why when I was born
[3:02] here I never left but I'd like for you when you come to speak it would be
[3:07] interesting to know from our perspective when did you arrive in Moore
[3:11] County how when did you come did you come and and sit down roots from birth
[3:18] Did you come in the last twenty years I can't have two that it just be interesting to know from our perspective as it continues to help us.
[3:26] So without any further ado I'm going to give.
[3:30] Deborah ends being a bring her up and then she'll introduce Haley.
[3:34] He'll go over the rules.
[3:35] So Deborah are planning.
[3:39] Good evening everyone.
[3:41] one. As Nick has laid out perfectly for you, our 13 land use plan is due to be updated
[3:57] and since the 1999 plan a lot has changed even from then until now and so it is time to update
[4:10] and also it's in conflict. It's in conflict with our current unified development ordinance.
[4:19] So once the plan is updated then we will need to update the unified development ordinance
[4:25] to make both documents consistent. And so right now they're inconsistent
[4:31] and so this is a perfect opportunity to get both documents in line with one another.
[4:39] And so this time I'll introduce Hayley Hogue with Mid-Carolina Regional.
[4:50] Yes, I'm sorry.
[4:52] Mid-Carolina Regional Council, that's the law. So Hayley?
[4:57] Good evening everyone. As Deborah said, my name is Hayley Hogue. I am the planning director
[5:03] with Mid-Carolina Regional Council and with me tonight I have Lindsay here who is from
[5:08] Central Pines Regional Council and Abby was also from mid Carolina. So we'll be
[5:13] facilitating this meeting tonight and they'll be taking notes on everything
[5:16] that we hear. So firstly thank you all for coming out tonight to share your
[5:20] thoughts on the county's future. This is as noted before the second of three
[5:24] listening sessions. The first was held last month at Pinecrest High School and
[5:28] the third will be held this Thursday at Northmore High School. The format of
[5:33] all of three three of these listening sessions is the same and the
[5:36] purpose is the same as well. With the purpose being that we want to give
[5:39] everyone a chance to share their thoughts on the long term future of the
[5:43] county. So we're asking to look tonight into the future over the next 10 to
[5:47] 20 years and tell us what you see more county being and what your hopes are
[5:51] for the county moving forward. Some of you tonight may feel comfortable
[5:55] sharing your thoughts at the microphone and as noted before, you will
[5:57] need to sign up at the front welcome desk. So at any point during
[6:01] tonight's forum, if you decide to sign up, please make sure that you
[6:04] go through that and you'll get a speaker number and we'll be calling those in order to the
[6:08] podium once we start that stage of the forum. Others may prefer to share your comments either
[6:14] on the post-it note activity out front or through the comment cards that you were given
[6:18] when you checked in. So regardless of how you participate we definitely want to hear
[6:22] from you tonight or in the future at other public engagement opportunities. All of you
[6:28] should have received a public engagement survey when you checked in and so if you can
[6:34] please make sure that you fill that out. That is really important to us because
[6:37] what it's going to do is tell us what other ways that we can engage with you
[6:41] as the county embarks on this land use plan update. So it will help us figure
[6:45] out how to get updates to you and what other type of forums you might want to
[6:49] be part of in the future. So by being here tonight all of you have
[6:53] demonstrated that you care greatly about the county and we want to make
[6:57] sure that everyone has a chance to be heard. So to do that we're going to
[7:00] discussed just a few ground rules together.
[7:03] So first to maintain an orderly fashion
[7:05] with the public comments,
[7:06] as noted you will need to sign up
[7:08] and there is a four minute time limit for each speaker.
[7:11] So once you come to the podium, we will set the timer
[7:14] and when you are coming up on 30 seconds,
[7:17] staff over here will hold up a sign that says 30 seconds
[7:20] and that will give you a cue
[7:21] that you need to start wrapping your comments up
[7:23] so we can move on to the next person.
[7:25] Once the timer goes off, you will hear the beeper
[7:27] and we'll need to take a seat
[7:29] so that we can call up the next speaker. Is that sound okay to everyone?
[7:35] Okay, if your time runs out when speaking
[7:37] we still want to hear what thoughts you have that you weren't able to share at
[7:40] the podium. So just write them down on the comment
[7:42] card and we'll make sure that we collect those comments as well.
[7:45] And then also on the county's website there is a land use plan page
[7:49] and that's going to be your portal for getting updates on this process
[7:53] over the next several months but there's also in there a comment box
[7:56] that you can share your comments and submit them at any time. So if you go home tonight
[8:01] and you forgot to say something or something comes to you next week you can always go to that page
[8:05] and submit any comments. And then finally tonight the commissioners have created this forum to
[8:11] hear from you all for us to listen to you and for you all to listen to one another.
[8:15] So let's try to show some grace in understanding each other's differing opinions and perspectives
[8:21] from what we hear tonight. And then also keep in mind that the board tonight is here to
[8:25] listen only they won't be responding to any comments or questions but we will be
[8:29] recording everything that we hear on the flip chart and in our notes and the
[8:33] meetings also being recorded tonight. So with that I think that covers all of the
[8:39] facilitation items. Does the board want to set any additional ground rules before
[8:45] we get started?
[8:48] I would like for you to introduce, well, I can't get the microphone, there it is. I'd like to introduce Frank Wiss,
[8:56] He's been with us for seven years.
[8:59] Unfortunately, he has decided not to re-up this year,
[9:02] but we're going to miss him,
[9:03] but he's really done a fantastic job working for the county,
[9:07] and we appreciate him, one of the finest men I've ever met.
[9:10] Jim Von Cannon is our fireball.
[9:13] He is an ex-military,
[9:15] and he has got more energy than I think the energizer buddy,
[9:19] but we are so thankful for him.
[9:22] And John Ritter, his attorney,
[9:24] It brings a fresh perspective and a voice from the northern part of the county, and it's been very valuable, so that's your commissioners here, and again, we're anxious to hear what you have to say.
[9:37] Okay, sounds great. Okay, in that note, we will go ahead and get started with speaker number one. So whoever has the first part, please come up to the podium and please state your name as well once you start your comment.
[9:48] All right. My name is Nicholas Salah Jr. I'm from Cameron here in North Carolina, the
[9:57] Moore County Cameron. And I attended the first session and I attended your work session
[10:05] after that. And I was excited about the work, the first session, but I was a little disappointed
[10:10] at the second session. I don't think we're getting the message. This road that Green
[10:17] Herron has taken us down is a red herring. It's based on two fundamental false assumptions.
[10:26] And anyone who has anything to do and knows about planning, if you have the wrong assumptions
[10:30] going into your planning and your wrong facts, you're going to make poor decisions.
[10:35] The first assumption is that we have to accept the 77,000 new resident population
[10:42] estimate from Raleigh. We, the people, determine how fast, how much, and how, and where growth
[10:52] occurs in this county, not demographers from Raleigh. So that's the first major assumption
[10:58] that we continue to perpetuate, and I hear the board continue to take that as it's,
[11:04] as gospel. And there is, it's like a weather forecast. There are a thousand known and
[11:10] a thousand unknown factors that will change the potential population growth in this county.
[11:16] And the major one is the land use plan. The second is that a rigorous process to update
[11:22] the land use plan cannot be done. And I heard it at your work session. The Green Herons
[11:30] said, no, no, no, you can't have a big organization, you can't stand up a steering
[11:34] committee, too many people, too many cooks, you know, ruin the soup kind of thing.
[11:39] But our land use plan back in 2013 elicited the help from 19 citizens and four or five exo-facto non-voting personnel.
[11:54] And it was a long, rigorous process.
[11:57] And it gave us this outstanding land use plan.
[12:00] So to say that we cannot stand up the steering committee of 19 people or 20 people, whatever the number is,
[12:06] is to say that that cannot be done is just a flat out lie, actually, because it was done
[12:12] and it was done to great effect.
[12:14] Just read chapter one of this land use plan and it tells us exactly how to update the
[12:20] plan and it gave us this absolutely spectacular land use plan that if applied will control
[12:27] the growth in this county and maintain our ambiance and heritage and the town and
[12:32] country atmosphere that we have in this county. It will prevent urban sprawl. I
[12:39] know for a fact it will do that because we applied this land use plan in 2022 to
[12:45] stop a subdivision major subdivision on Union Church Road to great effect. And
[12:49] what we found out it was the first time that the commissioners most of them
[12:54] had read the land use plan and applied it in a subdivision scenario. And
[12:59] And that subdivision was non-conforming with the land use plan.
[13:04] So to say that this land use plan is the problem, is the creator of our growth woes is inaccurate
[13:14] as politely as I can say.
[13:16] So we need some ideas for this process.
[13:20] Stand up the citizens steering committee.
[13:22] The citizens of this county are the ones who need to be trying to lead in the charge.
[13:27] You all get to vote.
[13:28] So you're the final say on whether you adopt it or adopt it in part, but the citizens of
[13:34] this county need to be the ones doing the heavy lifting and facilitated by some expert and
[13:40] that's fine.
[13:41] But to say that our land use plan cannot be reviewed through a rigorous process by
[13:49] the citizens of this county who are given their blood, sweat and tears for how good
[13:56] this county is is just leading us down the wrong road. Thank you very much for
[14:00] your time.
[14:09] Thank you sir. We will move on now to speaker number two.
[14:22] Ladies and
[14:23] gentlemen, hello. My name is Daniel Blanio. I am one of the commissioners in
[14:27] Carthage. I'll do my intro. I hope this doesn't count against my time here.
[14:33] But all right. Is this better? All right. I'll hold this thing. Okay. So I'm
[14:42] to do my intro. I hope this doesn't count against my time here. Alright, so I've been
[14:47] in Moore County about 10 years. I've been in North Carolina 20 years. I'm originally
[14:51] from Bakerside, California. So I can tell you what things look like when we don't
[14:55] make wise decisions. I'm glad to be here. I've served in the Army.
[15:00] That's what left me here. I came to Moore County because I enjoyed the values of the community.
[15:06] I brought my four daughters here, got them started in school here, and I've been very pleased with
[15:11] how things have run. As a town commissioner, I also recognize what you have to deal with.
[15:19] We've done a lot of this kind of stuff as well within Carthage. All right, now I've got my point.
[15:26] All right, don't want to be the naysayer, but one of the issues that I do have is the
[15:32] development of subdivisions out in the county.
[15:35] One of the things that towns are supposed to do is we're supposed to consolidate people.
[15:41] Whenever there's enough people, there's a population density, we zone it so that we
[15:44] can facilitate all that.
[15:49] In order to move into a town, you have to have a benefit to move into a town too.
[15:52] One of the benefits to moving into a town is that you have higher density zoning.
[15:57] If you're doing subdivisions out in the county, what you're doing is you're undercutting the
[16:01] towns and their ability to function as towns, but you are also affecting people that have
[16:08] farms next to them.
[16:09] They have horse that they have, all kinds of stuff out there that is not typically
[16:13] done inside a town.
[16:15] We can't involuntarily annex anymore, was never a fan of that in the first place,
[16:19] but it means that you have to have an incentive to join your town or your
[16:24] village. If you can get everything that you want out in the county, why would you
[16:30] go through the rigmarole of joining the town? So I just caution that as these
[16:35] subdivisions go out they're not going to have all the amenities of a town.
[16:39] They're going to affect the people that live next to them because they
[16:43] have farms and such and you're undercutting your own communities.
[16:50] The
[16:51] The other thing is I'd like to see more jobs in northern war.
[16:53] That's what I got.
[16:55] Thank you.
[17:02] Thank you.
[17:02] We will now move on to speaker number three.
[17:08] Good evening.
[17:08] I'm Larry Best.
[17:10] And as Nick said, I've been in more county beds
[17:13] than I have for 36 years.
[17:15] So we have seen a lot of change in that period of time.
[17:20] And like many of the speakers, I
[17:21] am concerned about the rate of growth
[17:23] and how we accommodate what's happening to us.
[17:26] Last time I spoke about the numbers
[17:28] and about what that can mean to us. And when I first came to that understanding it was frightening to
[17:33] me because I understood what this place could look like in 30 or 40 years. And what we build today
[17:41] we will live with the next 50 years. So it's not like we want to reimagine it 10 years now. I
[17:47] think it's built to borrow. It's something we live with for a very long time. One of the
[17:52] challenges is we feel found about how we really build community. We all see the
[17:58] subdivisions sprouting around the county. Unfortunately they are not an expression
[18:02] of community building and that they are one-dimensional and land-use and
[18:06] exist as islands and as our last interest they are not fabric to our
[18:11] communities. They provide housing but they do not build community. True
[18:16] lasting and livable communities create a place that adds to the
[18:19] residents' quality of life. They're respectful of the environment, they provide for day-to-day
[18:23] needs, all within a close proximity. Towns are very livable places. The grocery stores
[18:29] nearby, as are areas of employment, parks and open spaces are generous and connected.
[18:35] There's a scale to the land use that builds community fabric. Again, these random subdivisions
[18:40] occurring out on rural lands is not part of community building. Complete communities
[18:45] are vibrant and filled with meaning and opportunity, and they do not just happen.
[18:50] They are a result of careful planning that imagines new places and has consistent follow-up
[18:54] to ensure the vision is realized, and I really miss in terms of what that effort should entail.
[19:01] The land use plan must be a specific document that scripts the land to be saved,
[19:06] and I think Commissioner Cook who is not here now made that point one time
[19:10] a few months ago at the Elderly Center.
[19:14] It scripts the lands to be safe for ecological reasons.
[19:18] It defines the open spaces that will build fabric, integrates public uses such as schools
[19:22] and health care into the community, and it orchestrates relationships between various
[19:27] land uses so that they, in fact, are built real and complete communities.
[19:32] Livability is possible, but it doesn't just happen.
[19:35] They are very deliberate, hard work to create a plan that the result is good communities.
[19:42] So in my opinion, we should build complete communities, grow our towns.
[19:47] The towns have infrastructure.
[19:48] They offer goods and services in a proximity manner so we can provide all kinds of public services that you all will take care of.
[19:55] And by doing so, we build those towns.
[19:59] We protect our rural land as a result of that because we accommodate the growth of people,
[20:03] but we do it in places that are proximity to existing towns or hamlets or crossroads or whatever.
[20:09] And one last thing I was just interesting that the in the public way is defined as the public realm which is public right to ways for roads and utilities and all those things public buildings and things parks open space represent about a third of the land.
[20:28] Ultimately, that you will as growth occurs you will inherit that to be stewards of and pay for forever.
[20:35] And so I would encourage you to use your planning authorities to guide that specific use of public rights
[20:44] of ways in a way and create those, in fact, great community fabric. Thank you.
[20:57] Thank you. We will now hear from speaker number four.
[21:06] Good evening. My name is Leslie Bryant and I am the president and executive director of the Pines Preservation Guild.
[21:12] I'm also a 10-year resident of Moore County and the spouse of an active duty service member.
[21:19] The Pines Preservation Guild is a community-driven, non-profit organization composed of Moore
[21:25] County residents and business owners who believe historic preservation and community development
[21:29] are intertwined.
[21:31] I'm here today to express our organization's concern regarding preserving and protecting
[21:36] the historic buildings and resources in Moore County as the county reevaluates
[21:41] its land use plan. The 2013 land use plan does do a good job of identifying and
[21:47] expressing the importance of our historic resources, yet the county ordinances
[21:52] that have passed in the 10 years since seem disconnected from the stated
[21:57] importance. The existing plan also does not provide a path for exactly how
[22:02] protection will be supported and occur at the county level. We encourage the
[22:07] county commissioners, staff and consultants working on the land use plan update to consider
[22:12] a more robust historic preservation section or perhaps a completely separate historic
[22:18] preservation plan as done by other counties in the state and the country.
[22:23] While most historic resources in the county are located in individual municipalities with
[22:28] their own protections, there is currently no tool used by the county to help protect
[22:33] current and future historic properties both owned by the county or located
[22:39] outside of the local municipal jurisdictions from development or
[22:43] demolition. A historic preservation plan would encourage the passage of county
[22:48] ordinances to better reflect the county's commitment to historic
[22:52] preservation and sustainability. A preservation plan would also formally
[22:57] promote the well-established economic benefits and incentives of
[23:00] historic preservation and state of focus on increasing the number of historic designations
[23:05] throughout the county.
[23:07] More counties unique historic structures and communities are a character defining aspect
[23:13] of what makes this county unlike any other in North Carolina.
[23:18] As the county grows and evolves, a tool such as a formal historic preservation plan
[23:23] will help create the vision needed to move forward when faced with inevitable growth
[23:28] in a thoughtful, practical, and sustainable way,
[23:31] while also taking our heritage structures
[23:33] into consideration.
[23:34] Growth may be coming,
[23:36] but once these irreplaceable, tangible examples
[23:39] of our history are gone, we can never get them back.
[23:43] And we will lose our connection to the very communities
[23:45] that brought many of us here in the first place.
[23:47] Thank you.
[23:54] Thank you.
[23:55] Speaker number five, please come to the podium.
[24:08] I have to go after that.
[24:09] She spoke really well.
[24:10] So now I'm really nervous.
[24:12] Leslie Yarbrough, we've been here for 12 years but we just could afford our place
[24:18] about seven years ago. I've been to a few of these meetings to voice my
[24:23] concerns regarding the growth of Moore County and my wish protect our urban
[24:28] and as well as our farming areas somehow getting them to mesh better but
[24:36] tonight I'd like to highlight some of the social media posts on topics related
[24:40] to these issues from other members of the community. I think a lot of times we miss out
[24:45] on things that other people are saying because they, for whatever reason, can't make it to these
[24:51] meetings. So a few days ago, the Santel Sentinel wrote about Patrick's Point, which we all know
[24:58] is going on and being built on Highway 1. Some of the things that people wrote, a developer
[25:05] from Florida I'm sure they have the local community's best interest in mind.
[25:10] Southern Pines City Council should be ashamed.
[25:14] I'm scared to say that
[25:16] overnight their building is cheap as possible and it's unbelievable they
[25:19] literally build drunk. I see too much of this crap building. Southern Pines used
[25:26] to be a quiet quaint original town that 20 years ago, 20 years ago, but they
[25:31] keep putting up this crap. This isn't the last one of these, eventually all
[25:36] land will be gone on U.S. one. St. Hill Sentinel. Aberdeen station. This was January the 23rd.
[25:46] There were 445 comments. This one though had some more positive connotations to it. Some
[25:53] of the members in Aberdeen were pleased. They thought maybe it would increase their
[25:58] property values. They were kind of happy. But then there were these some other people
[26:02] that said, awful, Aberdeen, stop this now.
[26:05] Need more affordable housing, not another gated community.
[26:09] Why can't we get some places for young people
[26:12] or a homeless shelter?
[26:15] This is great for traffic, said one guy
[26:17] and lots of smiley faces after that.
[26:21] See, every day I hear about development here,
[26:26] just packing us in like sardines,
[26:29] but never in new high school.
[26:30] How can we add this many homes and people with no schools?
[26:34] Somebody else wrote in, we need more schools.
[26:41] The Aberdeen Board of Commissioners,
[26:44] this one is where the old Aberdeen School,
[26:47] the new master concept.
[26:49] This is kind of funny too,
[26:51] because a lot of people say, again, just say no,
[26:54] but a lot of people in here say they want Trader Joe's.
[26:57] His Trader Joe's was on the proposal to have a Trader Joe's.
[27:03] So I thought that was kind of funny, but other people, just when we think they can't screw
[27:09] this town up anymore, too many people here already in this county as it is, why are we
[27:15] worried about what's going up, maybe we should worry about the roads, maybe three lanes now
[27:19] as needed.
[27:20] We're returning into a mini Fayetteville or a carry without infrastructure.
[27:24] So my proposal for the land use is to propose that the apartment multi-family style homes,
[27:37] these zones get cut back in the new proposal, in the new land use.
[27:44] The other problem right now with the number of people that are coming in is the number of recs
[27:51] that we're having, the number of car accidents that we're having.
[27:54] more county as a whole since January 1st had 419 accidents so that's just a
[28:01] little bit over a month and I decided to print off some of the accidents so that
[28:06] you could actually see pictures of the vehicles and the people whose lives were
[28:13] damaged. Finally, can I finish by one more? Okay, finally the building around
[28:19] on horse country.
[28:22] If you all know where the hunt area is
[28:24] where the horses come and go down Sheldon Road,
[28:28] it used to be a beautiful area filled with trees,
[28:31] now these are the homes that are being built,
[28:34] cookie cutter homes.
[28:35] And I hate to call them that,
[28:37] but they are cookie cutter homes in the area.
[28:40] Some things that people are saying,
[28:43] sorry blank building contractors don't give a crap,
[28:46] southern pines have sold it sold to the devil,
[28:47] that's for sure.
[28:50] another one is disgusting ruining our neighborhood none of these overpriced
[28:54] houses have sold yet I live behind these houses in Northridge Street and now
[28:58] they've started building there too it's sick this is disgusting thank you your
[29:04] pollution thank you ma'am thank you we
[29:15] will hear from speaker number six now
[29:24] Hello. I'm Terry Bryant, a native. I've been living here. This is my 69th year. Grew up
[29:35] right here in this neighborhood. Grandfather owned this piece of property where we're sitting
[29:42] tonight, meeting tonight. I'm very concerned with changing the land use plan because
[29:50] It was an ideal in 2013 that was a continuation practically of...
[30:00] Our original land use plan. It's serving its purpose to a great deal. However, I have seen
[30:10] a lot of rural land developed in the past 10 to 15 years that I think was done quite haphazardly.
[30:22] but I was a privilege to be a part of the planning board in the early 2000s and was
[30:32] on the transportation committee and transportation is important to a developing county. We need
[30:41] to make sure that we can get from one end of the county to the other just for no other
[30:48] reason for emergency services in a timely manner. I suggested years ago that we should
[30:56] have a belt line to get folks from one section of the county to the other and everybody said,
[31:06] oh my goodness, you will disrupt the golf courses, we cannot do anything like that.
[31:12] Well, let's be really practical in our planning here for one of the things that concerns me
[31:22] tremendously is the fact that there are so many people wanting to change the zoning that
[31:30] has been already in the county and thank the Lord for the fact that we've had present
[31:38] use-valued tax because the rural economy is not so great in Moore County.
[31:46] There are just so many things you can grow on a farm and they're not terribly
[31:51] profitable anymore. But the folks that are living out there in the country have
[31:59] been zoned RA for all these years, 20-some years now, and they have
[32:07] lived under a set of rules that said you can only develop at a certain rate. You can only
[32:13] build so many houses on so much land. Well, it's that way right now, and it's not a terrible
[32:21] way to consider allowing further development. If the developers want to build, make sure
[32:31] they're willing to pay for the difference in the use. Let's be cautious and let's let
[32:43] the landowner realize that he's sitting on something valuable and somebody is
[32:51] wanting it and somebody is wanting to change the uses that are allowed. Thank
[32:59] thank you.
[33:05] Thank you we will now hear from speaker number seven.
[33:16] My name is
[33:17] Lou and blue I've been here all my life. Our parents grandparents on a lot of land
[33:21] in bass. Wisdom pines. Carpets. Young's room. We own a lot of that and I'm a
[33:29] contract and I'm a farmer so I see both sides and what's going on. It's about
[33:36] like Terry was saying and I was on the planning board the land use when it was
[33:41] right and we worked hard we met several nights we done a lot of things and there
[33:48] was some great men on that board and women too that has passed from here
[33:53] you know they're going on home but we need we need to slow the growth down
[33:59] I've been trying to say that in the town of Bass you know I've been like I
[34:05] It's so dangerous on six ninety six nine is one of the deadliest rural road in
[34:10] North Carolina. Not more can North Carolina. And we need some help because
[34:15] morning commissioners asked what what it would take to keep us far. Well it's
[34:20] getting about where it's so dangerous. I got a 17 year old son this turn 17. I
[34:25] don't want them out there on the road want a track because they come by with
[34:28] the fingers in there. Hauling out the wind get off the road you know you're
[34:34] slowing us down. But we're going to have to grow. That's coming. But we can manage it.
[34:40] As far as the land, I had a realtor come to my house last week, sat there, told me she
[34:46] had a good deal. It was a joke, you know, what the prices are. And it's like he said,
[34:52] a lot of people don't realize what they're on no more. But it does need to go back
[34:57] to the town. It needs to get back on the town. But at the same time, the town's
[35:01] got to be able to handle when what I'm talking about on Cyprus church road, I'm
[35:08] a contract. I get calls all the time. They slap these houses in people. Water's
[35:13] coming up in their car porch. Water's, you know, but they build them on slabs.
[35:17] We need some kind of inspection to make this stuff slow it down in the
[35:22] houses. I had I was on the golf trip and fellow told me he said, I'm the
[35:27] one building them house like we got to build 20 houses a week frame them
[35:31] Well, you know how them 20 and I looked at them. I said I wouldn't want my name on them, you know
[35:36] But we went from a proud County, you know, we all the work was done good
[35:42] Because we live here
[35:44] Man, the most these subdivisions money's going back to California. It's not staying here
[35:49] I mean a lot of people don't realize that and I have these people tell us well, you won't be able to say your farmland
[35:56] I've done seem to so many counties
[35:59] If we put it where. You know. Had at least be five acres of land to build a house on.
[36:06] And we're going to get the same value. When we sell that piece of property as all we are
[36:11] these boys when he said they put the house on half a. We're not getting them. They get them.
[36:17] And that's what we need to teach. We need to inform. The people what it's worth because
[36:22] it has really changed in the last ten years. But we do need some guidance, and I know y'all
[36:30] got a rough job, but I really think that plan that we had there if we'd stayed closer to
[36:36] it a little closer than what we did. And hindsight's hindsight. It's nothing we can do about
[36:41] the past, but we can change the future. We can make it better. And that's why everybody's
[36:46] coming here because they said, because we have problems with people that need subdivisions,
[36:50] where they see my farm, my ponds, they come deer hunting,
[36:54] you know, they just help their sales.
[36:56] And you know, that ain't, some people, yeah,
[36:59] I want them to come.
[37:00] Some of them, I don't want them on my property.
[37:03] But it's got out of hand, it really has.
[37:06] But we got to find county here, got to find people.
[37:09] And all we want to do is let our kids grow up
[37:12] and live here, you know.
[37:14] And they go, we can't tie their hands,
[37:16] you know, like putting it in compensation,
[37:18] some of the easements.
[37:20] some of it's good. But it takes a lot of money to hold a farm. And if we weren't for the land use tax, we couldn't hold it. But what we really do need to help to get the towns. And I know that you've got some control on the towns. Because most times it's county water and county sewer. So I mean, it works both ways. And we've seen it. But we'd appreciate anything you could do to help us. And like I said, give us a little more knowledge.
[37:49] Let the people that just stay home all the time,
[37:53] they don't know what this land is when it's taken.
[37:55] It's really, really got up.
[37:58] And we don't want to sell it.
[38:00] All the time I sell people land.
[38:02] Most times one of my family members sick or something.
[38:04] We need to do something.
[38:05] But we appreciate what you do and just ask for your help.
[38:15] Thank you.
[38:16] We'll now hear from speaker number eight.
[38:28] Good evening.
[38:29] My name is Chris O'Long.
[38:31] I'm from Cameron.
[38:32] I've been in North Carolina for 20 years.
[38:34] I've been a resident since 2013 when my husband retired and we decided to build our forever
[38:40] home in Cameron using Kirby Construction Group, a local family-owned Moor County builder.
[38:47] My husband and I are both Army veterans and love our small community in Cameron.
[38:52] We are passionate to the impacts that are happening in Moor County.
[38:57] At your last meeting in Pinecrest High School, the input from Mr. Nick Lasala and Mr.
[39:02] Jeff Marcus resonated with me. Mr. LaSala mentioned reviewing the ODO and land use plan
[39:07] together. That is a great idea. When Cameron was approached by a developer wanting to build
[39:13] approximately 57 2,000 square feet homes, 20 feet between houses on 86 acres at a market
[39:22] price of $400,000 on four inch thick concrete slabs, the proposed subdivision would
[39:30] have two male kiosks, no sidewalks. These developments mentioned the wetlands, ponds and streams would
[39:39] not be impacted. However, after doing some publicly available information research, these
[39:46] same developers have made similar promises in other areas of North Carolina. The wetlands
[39:53] were impacted since they sought to protect wetlands in another region. We also have
[39:58] been approached by a different developer in a separate tract of land most recently.
[40:03] We often are told, growth is inevitable.
[40:07] It's coming whether you want it or not.
[40:09] When the discussion is on the table and it does not go the way the developers are anticipating,
[40:14] they make the following statements.
[40:16] We will go to the county and you have no say.
[40:19] We have been told that there is no market for building homes in Anchorage.
[40:23] We have not seen any studies that support this statement.
[40:27] In the span of five years in our small ETJ, it has grown.
[40:31] We have neighbors that have bought three up to 11 acres.
[40:35] Our home sits in almost eight acres. The clientele is there.
[40:39] That clientele are your retired military community
[40:42] that want to make more county their home.
[40:46] As the review and update for the land use plan is underway,
[40:50] it is important that like Mr. Marcus offered in the last meeting,
[40:53] and I'm paraphrasing, make a committee of your citizens that can bring different input from the community to build a buy-in.
[41:02] Our municipalities are not separate from the county. We both should work synergistically.
[41:08] When a developer comes to the town's planning board with their ideas, there should be no room for them to say,
[41:13] we'll go to the county. We should be working together.
[41:17] I'm leaving you with a small research paper I put together in October 2023 when
[41:23] I noted the development Northgate on Morrison Bridge. At that point in time I
[41:27] thought there were only going to be 311 homes. I was corrected later that there
[41:32] will be approximately 600 homes. Schools, although separate from the county
[41:39] itself, must be considered and worked with. Those children will be divided
[41:43] between Bass Lakeview, Cameron, and Southern Pines Elementary.
[41:47] Winter Station in Bass, those kids will be going to the same schools.
[41:52] I've included a student ratio taken from the North Carolina Education System website.
[41:59] We need to consider the children in our community along with the utilities and transportation.
[42:04] I do understand those physical studies are underway.
[42:07] We are not opposed to growth.
[42:09] We welcome methodical growth where we can preserve our town and country feel.
[42:14] I would like to add that my daughter did attend Cameron Elementary School,
[42:19] Crane Screek, and graduated from Union Pines last year, and is attending UNCW as a student.
[42:26] Thank you.
[42:33] Thank you.
[42:34] We will now hear from speaker number nine.
[42:44] Good evening.
[42:45] Thank you very much for holding this meeting this evening.
[42:48] And thank you very much for your time on the board.
[42:51] I know it's a difficult situation in these very, very tough decisions.
[42:57] I want to also thank speaker number one, four, seven, and eight in particular.
[43:03] You all really captured the sentiments I think of everybody in this room.
[43:08] Very, very important that I hope you listen to those points.
[43:12] I have just a few other things.
[43:15] Studies showing growth is not always profitable.
[43:18] Sometimes growth is a loss leader in that neighborhood and that community.
[43:24] I advise us to go look at those studies and seek out that information when you're putting your strategic plans together.
[43:32] Infrastructure issues, just as other people have said, schools, water, healthcare, public utilities also need to be considered before the development starts.
[43:43] And a plan for those in place along with the development.
[43:47] We, I come from VAS, my name is Maureen Grippa, my husband and I moved down here 20 years ago
[43:53] and we have seen a huge change in our community.
[43:58] VAS is undergoing tremendous growth.
[44:01] They're developing every square inch available.
[44:04] They too had public forum meetings in which we went and spoke our peace.
[44:10] All for naught because the minute we all left the room they voted to go ahead with the development
[44:15] and not having considered anything that we said.
[44:18] So please put together that strategic group
[44:22] to come up with the right plan for this group.
[44:26] Quality development, as other people have said,
[44:30] the buildings that are going up are cardboard homes.
[44:33] They are going to cost the community, the town,
[44:37] the county, huge money in trying to get these repaired
[44:41] before they just become abandoned issues.
[44:44] I'm not sure if anybody has taken the study to look forward as to what is the future with
[44:51] the influx of personnel to Fort Bragg or Fort Liberty.
[44:55] You know, times change.
[44:57] Things can be reduced.
[44:58] We're having all this development.
[45:00] We also need a plan to accommodate this growth. But we also need a plan as to what's going to happen if that is dismantled to some degree.
[45:08] Lastly, I'm just asking you to please focus on bringing in developers that are real quality, local developers that are going to put in the right materials that are belonging in this community.
[45:20] I thank you very much for your time and your patience and listening to all of us and I really beg as a long term.
[45:29] Community property owner tax payer. We love this community. We want it to stay the way it is. We love more county. Make it better. Thank you very much.
[45:44] Thank you. We will now hear from speaker number 10 and we are coming up on the final five speakers. So if anyone else has decided to speak please just sign up and we'll add you to the list.
[46:10] Hi, if you can't hear me, raise your hand.
[46:15] My name is Nancy Moore.
[46:18] I have lived in both Bass and Southern Pines for a little over 20 years.
[46:25] I want to give a little background.
[46:28] When I lived in New York, I lived in New York City and in Westchester.
[46:33] My taxes in one house was $12,000.
[46:36] Those taxes with no changes went up to $158,000 a year.
[46:44] My other property was my taxes were $17,500 and they went up to $48,000 after I sold my house.
[46:53] Just because more people come does not mean your taxes will be reduced or stay the same.
[46:59] There's a very high risk when you talk about what is needed in terms of water table, subject, sewer, wells.
[47:10] Those are things that impact the farms especially.
[47:14] And who's going to building reservoirs? Who's going to pay for this?
[47:19] What about the schools? Who's going to pay for that?
[47:22] Southern Pines, and I would say more county in general, is very special because it has a lot of rural areas where farms.
[47:33] What happened in New York happens here where people virtually have to sell their land because the taxes go up so high.
[47:44] It's a reality. Do we really need to grow?
[47:49] I could see adding parks, I could see adding maybe some small areas for where we put tiny
[47:59] houses and house veterans.
[48:02] That makes sense to me, but I think that we have to be very careful when we talk about
[48:08] expansion and that more county is the fastest growing county in the state.
[48:13] I don't think that's a good thing.
[48:15] I think we need to slow things down.
[48:17] I think we need to respect what we have.
[48:20] Thank you.
[48:21] We
[48:29] will now hear from speaker number 11.
[48:40] Hello.
[48:43] I wrote notes and now I can't read them.
[48:46] So my name is Jennifer Chambers.
[48:49] This is my first time at one of these meetings.
[48:53] But I encourage you to speak.
[48:55] So we've lived in Moore County for going on 12 years now.
[48:59] We've lived in southern pines, whispering pines, and now we live in Cameron.
[49:04] We keep moving further and further out because we wanted more land.
[49:09] And that's why we moved out to Cameron.
[49:12] I started a small farm that's on 11 acres.
[49:15] We raised chickens, turkeys, pigs.
[49:19] And my husband also has a land in septic misses.
[49:22] So we are not against growth.
[49:25] We are just concerned about the type of growth that we're seeing in the county.
[49:31] You know, I had, we also, we came from Gwinnett County in Georgia,
[49:35] which was one of the fastest growing counties in Georgia.
[49:38] And we, we're not living there because we left.
[49:41] We couldn't foresee ourselves going back there.
[49:43] About six years ago, we made the decision to literally plant roots here
[49:47] and not go back there because of what happened.
[49:49] I mean the town I grew up in was very similar to downtown Carthage and now it
[49:55] has a hotel, street lights, I think Gwinnett County has close to a million
[50:00] people now and if that happens here in Moore County, my husband and I don't
[50:06] foresee staying here in the Walgreens because we left that for a reason. You
[50:11] know we love seeing these lots, these five to ten acre lots, you know,
[50:16] because we farm, we homestead, and there is a big need for that,
[50:24] and a big want for that in the military community.
[50:27] You know, there is a lot of people looking for that kind of land.
[50:30] There's a lot of interest in these larger tracts of land
[50:35] that I think would make sense for development,
[50:38] not these subdivisions that are going just plopping right
[50:42] in the middle of farmland.
[50:44] And I also had a very good conversation
[50:46] this morning with a group of farmers and I cannot take credit for this but they
[50:50] were talking about town and country and how you know how come we're not talking
[50:54] about putting a five to ten acre lot in downtown southern pines for a farm
[50:59] because it's it's not doable. So why are we talking about putting these large
[51:05] subdivisions in the middle of farmland that don't make sense for the
[51:09] infrastructure. For the farmers you know you're talking about safety, the
[51:14] the road we live on, there's a memorial on it
[51:17] because of how people drive.
[51:19] And if you've got tractors going on these roads
[51:21] and you're putting, you know, these lives at risk,
[51:24] you know, that's another big concern.
[51:29] Yeah, I love Moore County.
[51:32] I love all the unique towns we have.
[51:34] Camry and Carthage, Southern Pies, Aberdeen, Pinehurst.
[51:38] I mean, it is such a unique county
[51:40] that we fell in love with.
[51:42] And we really wanna see it stay that way.
[51:44] You know, we want the towns, we want to go to the towns and to enjoy them, and we want
[51:50] the people to come out to the farms and to enjoy our farmland as well.
[51:54] We don't want to see across from me, I don't want to see the 100 acre track get turned
[51:59] into 100 acre or 600 houses because that'll affect the way I'm living and the way I'm
[52:06] choosing to live and farm.
[52:08] so yeah
[52:20] yeah so I appreciate you guys listening to everything that everybody's
[52:26] been saying tonight I'm excited to keep learning and to keep tracking the
[52:31] land use program and what you guys do because I think it's it's gonna make a
[52:36] big difference over the next 10 15 years here thank you thank
[52:47] you all now
[52:47] here from speaker number 12.
[52:55] I appreciate the opportunity again. You know me. I'm
[52:58] Michael Parker. 59 years old. I was raised up four miles from here. I
[53:04] attended high school here. I know y'all met with the school board. I need to
[53:08] register complaint. I'm fairly disappointed that these seats in this
[53:12] auditorium have apparently sprung a good deal since 1982. I think you need
[53:17] to take that up with them. But my family came here. My father's grandmother bought our farm
[53:24] in 1926. My mother's family got theirs from a land grant from the King of England in West
[53:32] End, and it's still in our family. So I've been here a good bit of time. I know Lou
[53:37] and Blue. I know Terry Bryant. I know these people who spoke. I had a speech all planned
[53:42] until I heard some of these things, and I want to touch on a couple of things before
[53:45] I do that. Right across the road from here is a new subdivision called Union Hills. Union Hills
[53:52] spring up out of nowhere, virtually overnight. It came to be over there. I'm doing research for
[53:59] a class I'm going to offer next week and in research and population growth statistics,
[54:04] I was surprised to learn more counties growth rate since night 2010 according to this website
[54:09] and I can give it to you afterwards if you want it, was 24.94 percent. That's 88,000 going
[54:16] to over 110,000 in 13 years. Hope County grew by 15 percent. Harnett County grew by 25.4
[54:24] percent. What was interesting is a lot of that growth came from BRAC and the expansion
[54:29] of Fort Liberty, Fort Bragg, but when you pull up Cumberland County's growth rate,
[54:36] it is 2.5 percent over the same period of time. Now that's something that should
[54:41] make you go, hmm, I reckon why that is. Why is it growing that way there, but
[54:45] exploding here? In fact Union Hills, when they came, advertised themselves as
[54:51] Fayetteville's newest community. That was on their website to advertise. So
[54:56] they're bringing those folks here. I'm not opposed to the military living here.
[54:59] I love them. There are customers, there are neighbors. But the point is, is it
[55:03] brought them here is the town and country nature of this community that's been this way since my
[55:08] families came here 200 years ago. The land use plan, at the last meeting one of the commissioners
[55:18] commented that we're in this state because of the land use plan. We are not in this state
[55:24] because of the land use plan. Very much like the Constitution has been interpreted by two
[55:28] different people to say different things. The Constitution's words have never
[55:32] changed, but their interpretation over time has changed to allow some people
[55:37] to argue that things that we may or I'm not going to get into the stuff, but you
[55:41] know what I'm talking about. There's issues they both say supported. The
[55:45] land use plan is very clear. It's interpretation has what has allowed
[55:49] it to become that way. When we wound up here during that hearing in
[55:54] 2022. Many of the commissioners who were there admitted to us after the fact that
[55:59] they had never read the land use plan. They did read it during that time and it
[56:03] affected the outcome of that. That is what stopped that subdivision when you
[56:07] look at it and compare it. The land use plan is not the problem. It may need
[56:12] tweaks. If there is a difference between it and the U. D. O. Then we need
[56:17] to fix the U. D. O. Because the land use plan as it sits right now is
[56:20] not a bad document. Terry Bryant and Lou and Blue did a great job on the steering committee
[56:27] to bring that up. And Nick Pocerno, you were on it. You did a really good job. It is a
[56:31] good document. But the point is, is that it's interpretation over time, we must dedicate
[56:37] ourselves to recognizing the town and country if that is what we want to be. We must
[56:43] dedicate ourselves to recognizing that and dedicate ourselves to applying it as it
[56:48] was written and as it was meant. And not as we're trying to fix 25% growth in 10 years.
[56:55] That's just, that's crazy. So it depends on what we're going to do. And I ask you members
[57:01] of the commission, I thank you for your attention to this. But remember, it's the interpretation
[57:06] that matters. Let's interpret it the way that it was meant to be. Thank you.
[57:17] Thank you. We will now hear from speaker number 13.
[57:24] Hi, thank you for letting me have this opportunity.
[57:27] I'm Carol Parker and I'm married to Michael and I told him everything he knows.
[57:32] I just want you to know that.
[57:34] But I came here 37 years ago when I married Michael,
[57:39] but that was not the first time I came.
[57:42] My dad, his mother was actually the daughter of a farmer in Pine Bluff.
[57:48] and where Atex Industries and Brian McMurray fabric sits now
[57:53] was my great grandfather's farm and my dad always had a passion to come back.
[58:00] His parents had moved to Greensboro and that's where I grew up
[58:04] and I actually grew up in the county of Greensboro out in the Sedgefield area
[58:09] and we lived in a neighborhood and I have not heard one person here talk about a neighborhood.
[58:15] Now I can say, as Michael mentioned, we live four miles down the road.
[58:21] I have neighbors sitting in here, and they're spread out over a 10-mile range.
[58:27] And that is truthful, because as a farmer, you get to know your neighbors.
[58:34] What about these stockade fences? How many of these people really get to communicate?
[58:39] I know that the show Home Improvement, they communicated over the stockade fence but did they ever look each other in the eye?
[58:48] They didn't.
[58:50] Now when I grew up we ran between houses and down the ponds and we fished and we played together.
[58:57] Now you have to play in the street.
[59:00] Look at these houses.
[59:01] I noticed the Union Hills across the street.
[59:04] The house directly across from the entrance into the high school.
[59:09] The driveway goes straight in.
[59:12] Today I came through, the cars were parked on the shoulder.
[59:15] So they were partially in the right of way.
[59:19] So I had to bypass the cars, but they were parked in those people's yards.
[59:22] And yes, the state owns that right of way.
[59:25] But do you think, would you want to let your children play in a front yard
[59:30] that is maybe 40 feet from the road with strangers parked there every single day so they play
[59:38] in their stockade fence backyard where they don't see their neighbor kids. Now that's
[59:44] a sad way to create a community. That is not a community and Moore County was always
[59:51] about community. Lewin Blue, Terry Bryant, I don't know how many miles apart they
[59:57] live 15.
[1:00:00] I bet you they can pick up the phone at any time and borrow a piece of equipment from each
[1:00:03] other. They know each other. They know us. It is not uncommon for Terry Bryant to drop
[1:00:10] off a bill of pine straw or to call us about a problem, because that's what neighbors do.
[1:00:16] And the people that we want to welcome in, we want neighbors. And I mentioned about
[1:00:22] my dad's history. My dad moved here in 93 after having lived in Greensboro for 50
[1:00:30] years or so and when he came he always wanted to retire here. He lived here 16
[1:00:35] years before he passed away. My dad had a little farm all tractor and when the
[1:00:40] 2000s snow came and it was two feet deep my dad plowed all the driveways he
[1:00:46] could get to up and down Union Church Road to let people get to work
[1:00:50] because as the snow plows went down the road, they blocked the driveways.
[1:00:55] My dad was basically a stranger to the community just like me.
[1:01:00] But you know what? We've made ourselves an asset to the community.
[1:01:04] Now, I don't know that my neighbors will say I'm an asset,
[1:01:06] but we try to contribute to the community.
[1:01:10] We want to build the community.
[1:01:12] You can't build it when you're driving 65 miles an hour,
[1:01:16] or blowing past people and shopping in other counties.
[1:01:21] And I'll tell you the truth,
[1:01:22] I now am taking my business to Sanford
[1:01:24] because unfortunately,
[1:01:26] Horner Boulevard is safer than Sandhills Boulevard.
[1:01:32] Thank you.
[1:01:37] Thank you.
[1:01:38] We went out here from speaker number 14.
[1:01:48] Good evening.
[1:01:49] Thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight.
[1:01:52] You've seen me before.
[1:01:54] But it was a first tonight.
[1:01:56] First time I've ever heard Michael Parker
[1:01:57] are held to four minutes.
[1:02:01] My name is Steven Athens. I live at 510 Morrison Bridge Road
[1:02:06] in the Lobelia community, a little river township. This is the third time I've spoken
[1:02:15] to the commissioners regarding this subject.
[1:02:19] I just want to kind of reiterate a couple
[1:02:21] things. As I've read the land use plan, I believe it to be a well thought out well
[1:02:30] written plan. And I think when it's been enforced, it's been very successful in
[1:02:38] accomplishing the vision. And if we look at that vision, I think it's what
[1:02:43] we all want for Moore County. People come to Moore County for a reason. They
[1:02:49] They like it here because it's pretty, it's beautiful, the ambiance, they like the schools,
[1:02:55] they like all of the things that make More County beautiful and a great place to live
[1:03:03] and to raise children.
[1:03:08] Unfortunately, increased development, uncontrolled,
[1:03:14] and people coming here really nearly, subdivisions
[1:03:16] going up everywhere, that's destroying the very thing that people come here for.
[1:03:21] and it's kind of sad to see. My family moved here in 1966 when I graduated from
[1:03:30] Union Pines High School, we didn't even have a McDonald's in Southern Pines, I mean
[1:03:33] it was rural. My dad purchased 10 acres there in the Lobelia area and it's been,
[1:03:43] I tell people I live in the country for a reason, but unfortunately there's a
[1:03:47] division within a mile that's proposed to be 300 houses in that subdivision and
[1:03:53] they're tiny little dots of houses and you've heard others talk about it
[1:04:03] laws
[1:04:04] not enforced or ordinance is not enforced lead to chaos you the
[1:04:10] commissioners have a responsibility of holding county staff who work with the
[1:04:16] zoning and land use responsible I
[1:04:23] think from our experience with the Union
[1:04:24] church project I think we we've learned that the land use plan was not
[1:04:30] followed and to your credit that that plan was denied so I appreciate that
[1:04:37] but I think it's important that we we follow that across the county in all
[1:04:42] areas of the county. Laws not enforced, ordinance is not enforced or worthless.
[1:04:48] It leads to chaos.
[1:04:51] We live in a representative government. The people of
[1:04:54] more county have voted for you to represent them.
[1:05:02] In the meetings that I have attended,
[1:05:04] and from my understanding, the meetings at Pinecrest and all,
[1:05:07] it's been very clear that people are
[1:05:12] in favor of keeping the land-use plan
[1:05:15] or the major parts of it.
[1:05:17] Yes, it probably needs to be tweaked, and tweaking is OK.
[1:05:21] But to simply throw it out and go a different direction
[1:05:25] It is not in harmony with the wishes of the people, not for the benefit of the county.
[1:05:31] So I would implore you to, to, to let's keep the land use plan, tweak what needs to be
[1:05:38] tweaked and, and let's take the good from it and, and continue to have more county,
[1:05:47] the place that we all love and that we want to raise our children and grandchildren.
[1:05:50] Thank you.
[1:05:57] Thank you.
[1:05:58] And we did have two more speakers sign up.
[1:06:00] So now we'll hear from speaker number 15.
[1:06:17] Thank you all and good evening.
[1:06:22] My name is Scott Sheffield and I am on the Moore County
[1:06:28] Soil and Water Board with Lou and Blue who spoke earlier.
[1:06:33] I'm not here in an official capacity.
[1:06:36] In fact, I didn't have anything here
[1:06:38] till I sat down and started listening to everybody.
[1:06:41] But I've listened to 14 other speakers
[1:06:44] And they have, I think, covered most of the issues that I want to address.
[1:06:53] But I did want to make a few points that I think I'm maybe qualified, more qualified to address.
[1:07:07] I come from Northern Virginia.
[1:07:10] I've been here 20 years now.
[1:07:12] And I grew up there. I spent 57 years in Fairfax County. And I saw it change from a, what I would say, a green, beautiful county into one of residential sprawl, commercial sprawl as well.
[1:07:42] but mostly residential.
[1:07:47] The zoning requirements were not observed.
[1:07:52] They were manhandled by a few developers in the area.
[1:07:59] And land that was zoned as R2, in other words,
[1:08:06] uh, half acre lots, uh, got rezoned for, uh, R-10. In other words, they could put 10,
[1:08:15] uh, townhouses on one acre. Uh, this got, uh, way out of control because they went into
[1:08:23] agricultural areas and did the same thing. Here you've got, uh, subdivisions of townhouses
[1:08:30] the middle of farmland. I don't even like to go back there now because of what's happened there.
[1:08:40] But another thing about residential development is that it does not pay for itself in the county.
[1:08:50] It doesn't return a dollar for a dollar worth of services. A commercial development does.
[1:08:57] because in fact it pays more than twice as much than it consumes in county services.
[1:09:06] I put the question to you.
[1:09:09] What kind of county do we want?
[1:09:13] Should we be planning for the county we want or for the county that we might get?
[1:09:22] That's all I have to say.
[1:09:24] Thank
[1:09:31] you. We'll now hear from speaker number 16.
[1:09:55] Speaker number 16.
[1:10:00] So we'll move on to speaker number 17. We have four more
[1:10:03] speakers that have signed up.
[1:10:12] So thank you for listening
[1:10:14] to us. My name is Tyler Brady and
[1:10:18] technically I was born in Scotland County but my family line has been
[1:10:22] here since the early 1800s and you mentioned
[1:10:26] history. And I respect that I look at the history of our county and for those of
[1:10:33] you who know it. I don't remember her first name because I always called her
[1:10:37] missing Claire because I was a kid, but missing Claire's house up on the
[1:10:41] north side of the courthouse. Next to the United Methodist Church is you
[1:10:46] talk about history. That's a historical house falling apart. Pillars
[1:10:51] off of it. And I'm not a big public speaker, so I'm a little nervous. But anyway, so I respect
[1:10:59] the history here.
[1:11:02] The only reason I'm going to tell you this is to compare it. My profession,
[1:11:06] I've been a farm veterinarian for 25 plus years, and I had a clinic in Apex. And Apex
[1:11:16] and Holly Springs and Cary and Fuqua have all blended together and the traffic
[1:11:22] has changed 20 years ago to now. You don't even recognize it. The roads that I
[1:11:28] used to go through and cut through and get to a farm 20 minutes quicker, you're
[1:11:33] waiting in two hours of traffic. And I say that to make sure that we don't
[1:11:38] end up doing that a lot of that. Community is moving south and
[1:11:44] west. And I encourage like you have small farms. I would
[1:11:51] encourage that we continue to keep more county as an
[1:11:55] agricultural county. We talk about commercialism and that's
[1:12:00] fine. Smart growth would be the way to go. I mean we have
[1:12:06] commercial openings, you load the food line in whispering pines, there's standing areas
[1:12:13] for rental that have been for rental for a year.
[1:12:16] So there is room to grow there, but smart growth as far as that's concerned.
[1:12:24] And so I guess those are the things that I'd like to just kind of to bring up that
[1:12:31] we watch it.
[1:12:31] We go, personally, I'd like to stay agricultural as much as possible.
[1:12:38] I realize we're going to have growth.
[1:12:40] But you look at the growth, you look at the news stories coming out of Raleigh.
[1:12:43] Look at the news stories coming out of Kerry and Apex and Holly Springs.
[1:12:46] There's things that we never heard of, the shootings,
[1:12:49] the things like that that we hear from big cities.
[1:12:52] That we hear from, I had an actual client several years ago
[1:12:56] who had parked her vehicle.
[1:12:59] It was winter time she had her dogs in it. She kept her truck running to keep the heat on.
[1:13:04] She ran into the Walgreens, and this was on Highway 55.
[1:13:07] I remember telling me the story about it.
[1:13:10] She left out. She went into the Walgreens for five minutes.
[1:13:14] Her truck was running. She came out and her truck had been stolen.
[1:13:18] And the only reason they found it was because the guy that stole the truck had gone across the street to the gas station to fill it up.
[1:13:25] So I just think we have to be very smart about what we're doing as far as growth is concerned.
[1:13:32] I get that we're going to have to grow, I guess, but, you know, if we watch our independent farming,
[1:13:40] our small farms, and know our neighbors, I can't remember who said that, but know your neighbors.
[1:13:46] They may not be, but two miles away, but still know your neighbors and know who they are.
[1:13:50] We can help each other. I mean, remember when the, you know, the generators were shot out, right?
[1:13:56] There was a lot of people that needed help, and we can certainly be our own community to do that. Thank you.
[1:14:07] Thank you. We'll hear from speaker number 18.
[1:14:13] Good evening. I'm Angela Cummings-Thompson.
[1:14:17] I am a native of Bass and my, I grew up on a farm and I did not plan to come and speak.
[1:14:25] I'm also a realtor and I am the president elect of our Mid Carolina Association of Realtors MLS Board
[1:14:33] for next year. And so I just wanted to hear what everybody's had to say and then felt very comfortable
[1:14:40] here tonight listening to many of my neighbors and agree with just about everything everyone has said.
[1:14:47] I just wanted to bring up one more thing that wasn't brought up before and that I live on
[1:14:54] Morrison Bridge Road.
[1:14:56] So I know all about the development that's going on.
[1:15:00] Because that was my dad's farm. That was a chicken farm. And I know everything about that land and the 311 homes that are going in.
[1:15:10] Also, the developer has the largest lawsuit in the history of any construction company in our country.
[1:15:20] And that was in South Carolina, D.R. Horton, and you can look up all the information about
[1:15:28] the lawsuits with that and the quality of those bills.
[1:15:32] Not to mention or to mention that that farm, that acreage, that development is on, I called
[1:15:41] the company to ask.
[1:15:42] As a realtor, if I'm going to be selling these houses in my backyard, do they have
[1:15:47] to have flood insurance. Because whenever Florence and Matthew were here, I helped 45
[1:15:54] of my neighbors demucked houses just down the road. And they lost, there were 45 homes.
[1:16:02] And several friends and other realtors helped. And I whenever that happened, I had to stay
[1:16:13] in my house I could not leave because if I left I was not allowed to come home because of the flood
[1:16:19] zone. So nobody's mentioned 311 homes after we talked about those 45 homes that were flooded
[1:16:30] and democked and not allowed to rebuild having trouble getting permits to rebuild their homes
[1:16:38] but then we have a development going in my backyard so I would urge you to check
[1:16:45] the flood zone the floodway for those and then also as a farmer's daughter and
[1:16:53] a realtor you know I feel really torn and I've had several friends neighbors
[1:17:00] asked me what my thoughts are on it well some of these people inherit
[1:17:05] farms. I inherited my parents' farm. My dad is no longer able to farm. He was a
[1:17:10] tobacco farmer, hay farmer, and chicken farmer. He is unable to do that anymore. So
[1:17:16] I have this land and thankful to a local farmer and neighbor in here that he's
[1:17:22] still working on the farm. But there's no money in that. There's none. And so
[1:17:28] people are having to sell their farms. And I always thought it was the 10.01
[1:17:33] one acres why. And that's what I always told my clients for the longest time I
[1:17:38] didn't realize that you could come out on or a zoning and put in a major sub
[1:17:43] division. And now I'm seeing it in my own backyard and it's not pretty. Thank
[1:17:51] you for all of these meetings I think it's great.
[1:17:56] What was the status of the
[1:17:57] insurance availability flood insurance for those homes. They told me that they
[1:18:03] would get back to me and I've not heard.
[1:18:06] Thank you. Thank
[1:18:14] you. We'll now hear from
[1:18:16] speaker number 19.
[1:18:28] I really did not come prepared to speak but after sitting
[1:18:32] out there and listening for a little while and thinking about it I felt
[1:18:34] compelled to do so. My name is Blake Atkins. I'm married to one of Lou and
[1:18:39] Blue's daughters. I'm 34 years old and I've been here for 34 years. I farmed
[1:18:46] here with my dad and my brother for 34 years.
[1:18:49] Well, I'll say it pretty much 34 years,
[1:18:52] but I've never put in a job application anywhere
[1:18:54] in my entire life.
[1:18:55] I've never been off the farm.
[1:18:58] We had, oh yeah, and also we were awarded my dad,
[1:19:04] my brother, and I, the Moore County Outstanding Farm
[1:19:06] Business Family of the Year Award from this man right here
[1:19:09] back in 2017.
[1:19:11] We'd like to consider where we took a lot of pride
[1:19:13] in what we'd done for a living
[1:19:15] and we felt like we were pretty good at it.
[1:19:18] We had to sit down here about seven or eight months ago
[1:19:22] and make a decision that we wanted to keep on forming,
[1:19:25] but we could no longer make a full-time living
[1:19:27] doing it anymore.
[1:19:28] And then we were laughed at while we were young.
[1:19:31] My brother and I, he's three years younger than me
[1:19:33] before we wear our bodies out and wear everything out
[1:19:36] and all the land's gone and we wait too late.
[1:19:38] We need to figure something else out to go along with it
[1:19:41] to get us a sense of security.
[1:19:42] So that's kind of what we begin to do.
[1:19:44] Now with all that being said that's not all has it a lot of some of that does not have anything to do with the county or had no control
[1:19:52] With with what's went on, but let's talk for a minute about what has what the county does
[1:19:57] What's went on in the county that does play a lot of factors and why we've had to make this decision. I
[1:20:02] will start with
[1:20:04] The neighborhoods and even some of the little hobby farms
[1:20:07] I much rather see the hobby farms all day long than the neighborhoods
[1:20:10] but we'll point kinda at both of them.
[1:20:13] They come out here and settle right in the middle
[1:20:15] of where we live and work at to put food on the table
[1:20:18] and hopefully like send our kids to college one day
[1:20:21] and all that, like what everybody else's dream is.
[1:20:24] Well, I have to go get pesticide license
[1:20:26] and all these different license
[1:20:27] and go through these rigorous processes
[1:20:29] in order for me to come up here to the farm supply
[1:20:32] and buy the things that I need to apply to my crops
[1:20:35] in order for me to make it.
[1:20:36] Well, a resident can walk in loaves or anywhere else and buy a product over the counter that
[1:20:43] has the same ingredients that I have to be licensed for that I consider myself a professional.
[1:20:47] Spray hundreds of acres every day.
[1:20:49] I know what I'm doing.
[1:20:50] I go to trainings on it a few times a year.
[1:20:53] They can walk in there and buy it and go spray around their yard.
[1:20:56] And that stuff drifts over on our crops and it doesn't only have to be the wind.
[1:21:01] Some of it, it volatiles is when the temperatures aren't right or there's a temperature
[1:21:05] and version taking place. It gets up and it takes off across the crops and when I
[1:21:10] say this over about the past five to six years we haven't lost no five or six
[1:21:14] thousand dollars. We've been affected to the tune of over a hundred thousand
[1:21:18] dollars in crop damages. That's number one. Number two I'll go on the risk, the
[1:21:27] risk of our our migrant workers that we have to pay a lot of money to get
[1:21:31] over here and provide housing for them to live in here. The North
[1:21:34] County Courage Association, they're not used, they don't speak English. They're
[1:21:39] not used to like all this traffic all over the place. These people in a hurry
[1:21:45] passing us on double yellow lines. We can't afford to carry the risk, the
[1:21:50] liability of something happening. We got 15 of them workers in a van and
[1:21:56] somebody or them driving a tractor up the road for us or pulling our trailers
[1:22:00] and these people were just, you know, everybody's in a hurry, nobody wants to get up 10 minutes
[1:22:05] earlier in the morning. And we have to get our work done in the morning, or somebody
[1:22:10] would die from the heat. Y'all know what it's like in the sand hills in the middle of July
[1:22:14] and August, but you're still in the debacle field from the debacle. So with that being
[1:22:20] said, that's pretty much all I've got. The neighborhood stuff out here in the
[1:22:28] middle needs to stop this like like Lewin said these people don't understand
[1:22:31] what they got if something happens to me I want my kids to be able to sell land if
[1:22:35] they want to we're in such a desirable place now in such a gym mind these five
[1:22:40] ten acre tracks and plus will bring more money than what these subdivision
[1:22:44] developments the only person that misses out is the track developer that
[1:22:49] was never from from here anyways that doesn't give a rat's a double S about
[1:22:53] this place we do but thank you all
[1:23:03] thank you well now here from speaker number
[1:23:05] 20 and I believe this is the last speaker but if anyone else has signed up
[1:23:11] just let us know after this one good evening thank you for your time in
[1:23:20] your ears my name is Cameron Moore I am a Navy law enforcement veteran I've been
[1:23:24] home for about three years now the biggest problem I have with all these
[1:23:31] people coming in is our emergency operations. Since 2019 per NCDOJ, 506 fewer recruitment
[1:23:44] tests have come in. So as more people come in, what are we going to do for crime, for
[1:23:53] firefighter, EMS, NTE. Short and sweet. Thank you. Have a great night.
[1:24:07] Thank you.
[1:24:08] Has anyone signed up to speak that we did not call the number for?
[1:24:14] Okay. So with
[1:24:15] that, again, thank you all for being here tonight and sharing your thoughts, you
[1:24:19] know, updating a land use plan. We can't do it without participation from the
[1:24:24] public since it is your guys' plan in the end. So we really appreciate hearing
[1:24:27] from all of you tonight and before you leave tonight don't forget to put your
[1:24:32] comment cards in the comment box so if you have any written comments we can
[1:24:36] check those off and then also the survey that was in your welcome packet for
[1:24:41] public participation please fill that out as well and leave it at the front
[1:24:45] welcome table and I will turn it over to the board now thank you.
[1:24:54] Before I
[1:24:54] make a couple comments I first want to let you know your planning board for
[1:24:59] Moore County is sitting down here we have I'm gonna let you stand up and say
[1:25:05] your name loudly so they know who you are and what you do so please
[1:25:33] and they
[1:25:37] work really hard to get to listen to a lot of things that you bring to the
[1:25:41] planning board so that it then if it they they solve a lot of issues that
[1:25:46] before it ever comes to the commission if it ever does let me say
[1:25:50] this and I say this was all my heart. I'm sitting here, I'm looking at John Halsey. I worked
[1:25:58] on their farm right across the street when I was a young and so I know what that heat
[1:26:03] is like in the summertime and I saw her smiling a lot. I love Moore County and I love you
[1:26:11] guys for coming in here and speaking what you feel is in your heart. We can't govern
[1:26:17] and help change and do things without knowing what you're speaking and I know
[1:26:23] it takes a lot of guts to get up and speak in front of Mike and in front of
[1:26:27] other people and speak your heart but I'm so so so proud of you for doing it
[1:26:33] believe me we're hearing and we're listening I can tell you I can help Nick
[1:26:40] me and Nick was silent we thought about starting the law firm call it
[1:26:44] Nick and Nick. What do you think? Sounds good, doesn't it? Nick and Nick Law Firm?
[1:26:49] But anyway, Nick, we'll make one comment for you. We have not decided on if we're
[1:26:54] having steering. We haven't gotten that far yet. We decided to do the listening
[1:26:58] sessions first and then we'll have a discussion on Friday and you're welcome
[1:27:03] to come at 2 p.m. Senior Enrichment Center. Well, we will
[1:27:08] start discussing how we take what we've heard and start formulating game
[1:27:12] plan. You know you hear a lot of different sides of the story. I heard
[1:27:17] tweak the plan. I've heard rewrite the plan. I agree as well that the plan was
[1:27:22] pretty well done back in 2013. They did magnificent work and we and we don't
[1:27:29] want to lose what we got here. I certainly don't. I'll be honest with you.
[1:27:33] I have a hard time going to Southern Fines now driving so I'm getting older
[1:27:38] and we're all getting a little bit older, right, John?
[1:27:40] I'm 70 years old now, so she told me that,
[1:27:43] so I can say that up here.
[1:27:45] So yeah, there you go.
[1:27:47] See?
[1:27:48] We're good friends.
[1:27:49] That's what good friends do and good neighbors do.
[1:27:52] So, and I appreciate everybody coming here and speaking.
[1:27:55] I'm gonna let each commissioner,
[1:27:57] if they'd like to make a closing comment,
[1:27:59] and then I'll ask for a motion to close.
[1:28:03] We invite you to come to Northmore and speak again
[1:28:05] If you would like on Thursday at 5 30 will be doing the same thing and then again like I say on Friday 2 p.m
[1:28:13] Senior Enrichment Center will start formulating the plan and we feel the same as you do. We don't want to lose what we got
[1:28:20] We don't want to become a
[1:28:23] Fable and apex or any of that. So you're not speaking to deaf ears
[1:28:29] We all have that same heart and I think you'll find out that we got to just figure out how to do the process
[1:28:36] so that everybody's treated fairly and that should be done. Everybody should be treated fairly.
[1:28:42] So with that, Frank?
[1:28:44] Thank you, Nick. And thanks to everybody who came out tonight.
[1:28:49] It was informative. A couple of weeks ago at Pinecrest High School,
[1:28:53] So we heard many people from the Southern Pines, Pioneers, Dabardine area.
[1:29:00] Tonight we heard so many people from Bass, Cameron, Carthage, Rural, Eastern, Moore County.
[1:29:09] Didn't hear, in Pinecrest, maybe one farmer.
[1:29:14] tonight we heard from so many farmers and small and large who this is how you
[1:29:22] make a living and it's a lifestyle too that's important and it's one of the
[1:29:28] important features about Moore County that attracts us all so we we're getting
[1:29:33] that we're hearing that and I hope we hear from folks in the western part
[1:29:38] northern part of Moore County when we're up at Northmore this Thursday
[1:29:42] I will ask you, if you know someone that lives up in that area that would like to come out
[1:29:50] and tell us what they think, please call them.
[1:29:54] Encourage them to come out and let us hear from them.
[1:29:57] We really want to.
[1:30:00] We're learning, we're listening, and we're appreciative of your sincere interest and willingness to come out and speak up tonight.
[1:30:11] And we want to hear from you. Those of you here that did not speak to us, write us an email, write us a letter, go to the website.
[1:30:20] There's a way to fill out a questionnaire. We really want to hear more because it helps us all. Thank you.
[1:30:34] Again, thank you all for coming out here.
[1:30:37] We're listening hard and everything that you're saying
[1:30:40] out there has been resonated before and is resonated now.
[1:30:44] We need to get back to local builders.
[1:30:46] We've got, and I call them carpet baggers,
[1:30:48] you can print that if you want to.
[1:30:50] They're coming in and they're building shoddy houses.
[1:30:54] They're LLCs.
[1:30:55] You can't even sue them for the damage they're doing.
[1:30:59] We need to have bigger lots out there.
[1:31:01] where we travel around a lot and we get a lot of calls to these developments that have
[1:31:05] been thrown in there and the children don't have yards to play in.
[1:31:11] A lot of them are playing in the street and that's not what children should do.
[1:31:16] We need to preserve our history and I'll use another word I call them Taliban.
[1:31:21] We've got people coming in here and trying to destroy things that have been here
[1:31:24] for 200 years and they need to go back and they need to and they're going to
[1:31:30] make tens of millions of dollars when they're destroying it and that's going
[1:31:34] to be taxpayers you're paying and you're paying for them to come in and take
[1:31:39] our history away so we're all going to stick together we all need to be
[1:31:43] neighbors and family and we are and and I didn't hear anybody say West End
[1:31:48] earlier we need to keep remembering Lakeview and West End because they're
[1:31:52] out there and they've been here a long time but no we're listening we're
[1:31:56] gonna do whatever it takes and we need to take care of the county and we need to
[1:32:02] take care of our neighbors as well and thank you for coming out.
[1:32:10] Well ladies and
[1:32:11] gentlemen I do also want to thank you for being here tonight and I must say
[1:32:16] that I appreciate the passion with which you have spoken and also combined
[1:32:23] with the decorum and civility that really is the signature of our
[1:32:30] community because we do know each other and we do have a sense of community.
[1:32:34] So just this meeting tonight is a shining example of why living in Moore
[1:32:40] County is so great. So I appreciate you for that. I thank you for your ideas and
[1:32:43] thoughts that you have shared. We are listening and taking everything into
[1:32:48] account and we look forward to seeing you all come come on up-to-up from
[1:32:53] Moore County on Thursday and be with us again at Northmore High School.
[1:32:57] but I look forward to hearing more and working with everyone as we strive to have the best
[1:33:06] county that we can.
[1:33:08] So thank you so much, each and every one of you.
[1:33:13] Thank you, Board.
[1:33:14] You can see why it's such a pleasure to work with these gentlemen.
[1:33:17] There's other folks I'd like to thank.
[1:33:21] Our staff is here.
[1:33:22] We've got our attorney and our planning director, our clerk to the Board and our
[1:33:26] county manager. They do a fantastic job of listening to you and operating this
[1:33:31] county without them. We could not make that's why people wanting to come and
[1:33:36] also our law enforcement standing over here in the on the in behind the scenes.
[1:33:40] But thank God for we need them and they keep the disability and that's one
[1:33:45] of the reasons they're coming out of Cumberland County. I can attest you
[1:33:50] don't want to live in Cumberland County. You want to live in more
[1:33:53] county and we wanted to keep it that way so we have listened to you now one last
[1:33:59] thing gentlemen raise your hands all the gentlemen in here raise your hands
[1:34:04] gentlemen if you're a gentleman raise your hands what is tomorrow is
[1:34:14] Valentine's
[1:34:15] Day take care of your sweetheart and that is a county ordinance just kidding
[1:34:23] I get in trouble for doing that with that I need a motion to adjourn I have
[1:34:28] motion from Commissioner Von Cannon, seconded by Commissioner Ritter, any further discussion
[1:34:33] on favor say aye.
[1:34:35] We stand adjourned.
[1:34:36] Please be safe going home.