[0:01] This webinar is being recorded. So we
[0:04] will next move to our introductions and
[0:08] welcoming remarks. So I will turn it
[0:10] over to Fred.
[0:14] » Oh, unmute yourself real quick, Fred.
[0:19] » Thank you. Uh thank you very much,
[0:21] Paige. Uh welcome everyone. My name is
[0:25] uh Fred Bon. Um just a little bit of an
[0:28] update for you. Since we last spoke, um
[0:32] I've accepted sort of a new role with uh
[0:34] New York State Parks. Uh about three
[0:37] weeks ago, Commissioner Moer named me as
[0:40] acting deputy commissioner for
[0:42] operations.
[0:44] Going to continue with this project. Uh
[0:45] tonight's a big night, so I didn't want
[0:47] to let go of this project in this new
[0:49] role. So uh um I'll just kick it over to
[0:54] Kathy in a in a second. Kathy has been
[0:56] named as the acting regional director
[0:58] for the Fingerlake State Park System. So
[1:01] Kathy, would you please be kind and
[1:02] introduce yourself?
[1:05] » Hello everyone. My name is Kathy
[1:06] Nordfanzo and I am the acting regional
[1:09] director for the Fingerlakes region.
[1:11] Thank you.
[1:13] » Uh James
[1:15] uh good evening everybody. Um my name is
[1:18] James Jeffrey. I'm the park manager for
[1:19] Harriet Hollister uh the Honeyway Boat
[1:22] Launch and Stony Brook State Park. and
[1:24] uh I'm happy to be with you tonight. Uh
[1:26] I'll take it over to Zach.
[1:30] » Good evening everybody. I'm Zach
[1:31] Ballard. I'm the Fingerlakes Regional
[1:33] Trail Coordinator. Uh and I will kick
[1:37] that over to Charlie or to Elena, I'm
[1:39] sorry.
[1:40] » Yes. Hello. I'm Elena Burns. I'm the
[1:43] assistant district manager of
[1:45] environmental stewardship in the
[1:47] Fingerlakes. So I'll kick it over to
[1:49] Charlie.
[1:51] » Hi everyone. My name is Charlie Apaleo,
[1:53] Fingerlakes Regional Biologist, and I'll
[1:56] kick it over to Lindsay.
[1:59] » Hi, I'm Lindseay Donroski. I'm an
[2:01] environmental analyst covering the
[2:03] Fingerlakes and Central Region, and I
[2:05] complete environmental reviews.
[2:08] » All right, thank you every
[2:10] » Oh, Paige. Yes,
[2:13] » The voice, the technology for the
[2:15] evening. I am Paige Barnum. I uh lead
[2:18] the planning section. Our group is based
[2:19] in Albany. we cover statewide. And we
[2:22] also have joining us on the call uh
[2:24] Chris Morris. I'll give you the mic for
[2:26] a second, Chris Morris.
[2:31] » Sure. Thank you. Just want to unmute
[2:33] myself. Um Chris Morris, I'm the
[2:35] planner. Uh work with Paige in our
[2:38] Albany office and uh
[2:41] cover trails statewide um and work with
[2:45] Zach and others in the regions quite
[2:47] frequently. Thanks.
[2:49] Thanks, Chris.
[2:50] » Excellent.
[2:51] » Thank Thank you, everyone. Thank you,
[2:52] team parks. Um, so a couple of thoughts
[2:56] as we we get going. I just want to
[2:58] remind everybody sort of the the purpose
[3:01] and the goals uh around uh this project.
[3:05] Um, and I just want to say I'm
[3:07] incredibly proud of uh the state parks
[3:10] team that assembled around this review
[3:12] of the trail system at Harriet Hollister
[3:15] Spencer. Um it has been a a good amount
[3:19] of work. It has been thorough work. It
[3:21] has been uh processing a lot of your
[3:24] feedback and input. Um it's been using
[3:27] signs to do evaluation of the park
[3:30] infrastructure
[3:32] uh the natural areas of the park. So
[3:33] it's a been a really thorough
[3:35] comprehensive comprehensive review. And
[3:39] I'll go back to the original reason for
[3:41] for doing this and remind people that
[3:43] what we have at Harriet Hollister or
[3:46] what we had at Harriet Hollister and
[3:48] we're we're we're presenting to to
[3:50] tonight. Harriet Hollister had an awful
[3:53] lot of recreational trails that were not
[3:57] authorized recreational trails. A number
[3:59] of a number of folks had uh uh created
[4:03] their own trail systems. Not all trails
[4:05] were marked. We ran into a public safety
[4:08] concern where first responders were
[4:11] having difficulty understanding where
[4:13] they were in the park, where injured
[4:15] individuals were in the park. And so we
[4:18] wanted to take a step back and do a sort
[4:20] of a comprehensive overview of the
[4:22] existing trail structures, see which
[4:24] ones made sense and which activities uh
[4:28] made sense on that that trail system. So
[4:30] really focusing in first and foremost on
[4:33] safety. That's core to our mission.
[4:36] Um we wanted to eliminate the
[4:38] redundancies within the trail system uh
[4:41] to manage those trail systems better to
[4:43] to make them uh uh available for
[4:46] generations to come and respect uh the
[4:48] the natural area that we have. Um
[4:52] improving environmental stewardship and
[4:54] and protecting the resource. One of the
[4:56] things that we that came about from this
[4:58] is that Harriet Hollister is an
[5:00] incredibly special special uh natural
[5:03] area and Elena and the biologists will
[5:06] get into that in a little bit, but we
[5:07] discovered things about this piece of
[5:09] property that we had not known prior to
[5:11] this project. And then we needed to take
[5:14] a look at whether it would be possible
[5:17] to uh allow for equestrian use based on
[5:20] on requests that we had received. Um,
[5:24] and I'll just be clear at the get-go
[5:26] here, after considerable uh evaluation,
[5:30] taking a look at what that activity
[5:31] represents, taking a look at feedback
[5:34] from other user groups, uh we have
[5:36] determined that that is not a compatible
[5:39] use uh within the Harriet Hollister
[5:42] property. It's never been allowed within
[5:43] the property and after taking a deep
[5:46] look into possible ways to try and
[5:48] incorporate it uh due to the the the
[5:51] challenging natural areas and park
[5:53] infrastructure uh we have determined
[5:55] that it is not possible to allow
[5:58] equestrian use uh at Harriet Hollister.
[6:01] Okay. Um so uh let's go to slide six and
[6:09] we'll talk about sort of just the
[6:11] overview of the property.
[6:17] So what we're looking at is and you're
[6:20] major users of the property currently uh
[6:23] the property is uh just a little over uh
[6:26] 1500 acres uh as of July. We have a
[6:30] significant acquisition, another 117
[6:33] acres that's in the queue that we're
[6:35] working on the Fingerlakes, a very
[6:37] special piece of property uh that faces
[6:41] Hanoi uh uh lake. Um and it is a
[6:45] fourseason facility. This park operates
[6:48] uh all 12 months of the year. Uh it has
[6:51] multiple activities, winter activities,
[6:54] uh hiking, snowshoeing, mountain biking,
[6:58] birding, uh uh cross-country skiing,
[7:01] snowmmoiling. It's a really uh
[7:03] incredibly valuable uh recreational
[7:07] asset to the state park system. Okay.
[7:10] So, that was not lost on us and we
[7:12] really spent a lot of time uh getting
[7:14] feedback from all of those user groups
[7:16] and that's what we've used to guide our
[7:19] uh our plan moving forward. Okay.
[7:34] All right. Thanks, Fred.
[7:36] I think I'll take it from here unless
[7:38] there's anything you want to add to this
[7:39] last slide here.
[7:42] » No, you know, and again, no changes to
[7:45] the current recreational usage uh
[7:47] equestrian usage will not be allowed uh
[7:49] on the property. Um just want to make
[7:52] sure that's uh uh clear for all.
[7:57] » All right. Thanks, Fred. So, as he
[8:00] mentioned, you know, we've been along
[8:01] this ride for a little bit. We last saw
[8:04] all of you um at town hall back in March
[8:07] 2025. And so what we've got here on the
[8:09] screen right now is sort of a
[8:10] color-coded timeline to sort of show you
[8:13] what's been happening um since last
[8:15] year. So of course uh green here sort of
[8:17] represents the the basic planning
[8:19] activities overview. Um we had our
[8:21] public comment period because of course
[8:23] we took uh question and comments and had
[8:25] sort of a discussion uh town hall then
[8:28] back in March 25 and ran our public
[8:30] comment period. Um we'll definitely go
[8:33] into more detail in the presentation
[8:34] about what we heard through public
[8:36] comment and how it really shaped um the
[8:39] trail plan that we're going to go
[8:40] through tonight. Um so thank you to
[8:42] everyone that participated. I believe we
[8:44] had um over 110 um between individuals
[8:47] and organizations participating. So um
[8:50] wonderful engagement and we really
[8:51] appreciate your feedback because it
[8:53] absolutely impacted the outcomes from
[8:55] this project. Then we get into spring
[8:57] and summer of last year, parsing through
[9:00] all those comments, having team
[9:01] meetings, talking about the different
[9:03] insights and perspectives that you all
[9:05] had to offer. Here in orange, we've got
[9:08] uh our trails group and sort of what
[9:10] they've been up to in the past year.
[9:12] They've installed trial counters and did
[9:14] some data gathering. They did in-person
[9:17] surveys and parking lot observation.
[9:19] Perhaps some of you ran into them out on
[9:20] the site. Um they were doing that work
[9:22] through spring into early last fall. And
[9:25] of course they were doing more GIS sort
[9:28] of like ground truthing and trail
[9:29] condition studies um throughout the year
[9:32] because as I'm sure you all know there's
[9:34] a very different environment at Harriet
[9:35] Hollister in the winter than there is
[9:36] the spring versus the summer. And
[9:39] finally here we have our stewardship our
[9:41] environmental group in the sort of
[9:43] purple grape colored um timeline at the
[9:47] bottom. You'll hear a lot about vernal
[9:49] pools later and the great assessment
[9:52] that went into that that really
[9:53] influences again um the changes to the
[9:56] trail network that we're going to see.
[9:58] Um I'm not going to go too in depth on
[10:00] this as um we've got some great
[10:01] biologists on the call who will give you
[10:03] a little bit more detail about the work
[10:05] they've been up to, but some more plant
[10:07] surveys, invasive species research.
[10:11] Uh we have vegetation studies again,
[10:15] invasive species treatment and of course
[10:18] um year round all of our respective
[10:19] disciplines are working on trail
[10:22] restoration initiatives tackling
[10:24] invasive species. So that's sort of a
[10:27] broad overview and now I'm going to kick
[10:29] it over to our park manager James who
[10:32] will um talk again about sort of you
[10:35] know from the outset we really wanted to
[10:37] address safety and operational concerns.
[10:39] So, I will turn it over to James.
[10:42] » Hi everybody. Thank you. Um, if you
[10:45] weren't here for our last meeting, uh,
[10:47] my name is James. I'm in charge of
[10:48] operating and the maintenance at the
[10:50] facility and just the daily operations
[10:53] of what happens there. Uh, when I took
[10:55] this position in, uh, 2022, I did
[10:58] realize that there were some challenges
[10:59] with the trail system that currently
[11:01] existed. Um, it was a little bit complex
[11:04] and it kind of lacked the appropriate
[11:06] wayfinding market. Um there are a lot of
[11:08] trails that weren't blazed in any way.
[11:11] Um you know the published map that we
[11:13] had line online did not align with what
[11:16] was in the field. So there might be a
[11:18] trail that you see on the map and then
[11:20] you'll be somewhere completely
[11:21] different. Um and the existing
[11:23] infrastructure made it really hard for
[11:25] me to prioritize, you know, where my
[11:27] crews go. Say there's storm damage or
[11:29] hazardous trees. Which trails are the
[11:31] most used? What's more important? Uh,
[11:33] and then finally EMS reached out to me
[11:36] because there was an incident on the
[11:38] property. They were looking for somebody
[11:40] and they said, "Please do something
[11:41] about the facility. We had a really hard
[11:43] time finding this individual." And I
[11:45] said, "Of course, I'll work on that."
[11:47] Uh, but me, I wasn't exactly sure how to
[11:49] do that right away. So, I have reached
[11:51] out to the, you know, everybody on the
[11:52] team here to, uh, try to put a plan
[11:55] forward. Um, and I think what we have
[11:58] developed between everybody really
[12:00] alleviates a lot of these issues. Um,
[12:03] but to get there, we had to collect a
[12:05] whole bunch of data uh and find out
[12:07] things about the facility that we needed
[12:09] to know. Um, I'm going to kick it over
[12:11] to Elena to least about the first
[12:14] environmental process uh of the data
[12:17] that they found. Thank you.
[12:21] » Great. Thank you, James.
[12:24] So, I'd like to provide a brief overview
[12:27] of Harriet Hollister Spencer. Um the
[12:30] main parcel is pictured here. You can
[12:32] see the park boundary in this green
[12:35] dashed line. Um so this particular map
[12:39] um denotes the natural communities on
[12:42] site. So there's several kind of greens
[12:45] and browns that are lit up in this map.
[12:48] Uh so the predominant natural community
[12:51] on this site is the Appalachian oak
[12:53] hickory forest. Um, and then there's
[12:56] also Appalachian oak pine forest, which
[12:59] you can see denoted in sort of a lighter
[13:02] sandy color in the middle. And to the
[13:05] south of the park, there's also some
[13:08] conifer plantations denoted in green,
[13:12] the light green. And then to the north
[13:14] and the south, there are hemlock
[13:17] northern hardwood forests ecosystems.
[13:20] Those are uh strongly associated with
[13:23] the riverine systems that eventually
[13:25] make their way to the Honeyoi inlet. So
[13:29] just taking a look at this map, you can
[13:31] see that pretty much the entire uh park
[13:36] is within a natural state, right? So we
[13:38] have very limited development at this
[13:40] park. You can see the parking lot
[13:43] pictured in a gray coloration and then
[13:46] the access road, right? So um this is a
[13:50] prominent example of a large expanse of
[13:52] contiguous natural habitat in the
[13:55] overall area. I think it's worth
[13:56] mentioning that the bordering properties
[13:58] as well are also predominantly
[14:01] undeveloped. So you know just a a huge
[14:04] expanse of undeveloped area. So this
[14:07] contributes to the ecological
[14:08] significance of this park. And I think
[14:11] frankly it's it's why this park is so
[14:13] well loved because of this this natural
[14:16] state which is pretty pretty impressive,
[14:18] pretty neat.
[14:20] And so the next map that I want to show
[14:24] highlights significant communities
[14:27] within the park. So again, we've got our
[14:29] main parcel pictured here and there's
[14:32] two two natural communities that light
[14:35] up as being significant. So this
[14:37] designation of significant uh this comes
[14:41] from the natural heritage program. So
[14:43] this is um a group of expert scientists,
[14:48] zoologologists, ecologists, botnists.
[14:50] They do work all over the state mapping
[14:52] and inventoring
[14:54] um these natural habitats. And so
[14:57] habitats that they deem to be rare
[15:00] within the state or of high quality,
[15:03] they give this designation of
[15:05] significant. So the two natural
[15:08] communities that we have within the park
[15:10] boundaries are the oak hickory and the
[15:12] oak pine forest um which we saw in the
[15:15] previous map. I also want to note just
[15:18] across route 36 here we've got uh the
[15:21] honeyo inlet uh wetland complex which is
[15:24] also denoted as a significant natural
[15:26] community. So again just a really
[15:29] predominant example of highquality
[15:31] intact natural communities at this site.
[15:35] And so another important ecological
[15:38] aspect of the park is the habitat value
[15:41] for birds. So um Harriet Hollister
[15:44] Spencer is within a designated important
[15:47] breeding area or an IBA.
[15:50] And so this IBA is designated as a state
[15:53] priority for important habitats for the
[15:56] conservation of bird populations. Right?
[15:57] So it's recognized as being a
[15:59] significant place for birds to survive
[16:01] and thrive within the state. Um and one
[16:04] of the key habitats that defines this
[16:06] IBA is forested habitats, right? Which
[16:09] we can see pretty clearly from this map.
[16:13] And so we've we've talked broadly about
[16:16] about the eco or the ecological
[16:18] importance of this site. Um we do want
[16:21] to take a deep dive into a specific
[16:24] unique habitat type within the park. Um,
[16:27] so one feature that makes this site so
[16:30] special ecologically is the presence of
[16:32] a large vernal pool complex. And like
[16:36] Fred mentioned, we have learned a lot
[16:38] over the past couple years from
[16:40] extensive survey work and study. And
[16:44] we'll be presenting some of our findings
[16:46] tonight. So I will hand it over to
[16:48] Charlie Epelo, the biologist who
[16:50] oversees the project to discuss our
[16:53] findings.
[16:56] Thank you, Elena. Appreciate it. Um, but
[16:58] yeah, so Harriet Hollister and the
[17:01] forest around it are full of small
[17:03] temporary wetlands called vernal pools.
[17:05] Um, some of you may have walked right
[17:08] past some of them without even knowing
[17:09] it while walking the trails at Harriet
[17:12] Hollister. Um, but basically a vernal
[17:14] pool is pretty much just a a little
[17:17] seasonal wetland. Um they fill up with s
[17:20] snow melt and uh rain in the spring and
[17:23] then they dry up over the summer as uh
[17:25] the temperatures kind of warm up. Um
[17:28] they typic they're typically very small
[17:30] and shallow. Um and they're
[17:32] geographically discreet, meaning they
[17:36] there's no continuous surface connecting
[17:38] them to a stream or a lake or any other
[17:41] permanent water source. They're just
[17:42] kind of on their own. Um, and because
[17:45] they dry out every year, uh, they can
[17:47] hold they can't hold permanent fish,
[17:49] which is what makes these vernal pools
[17:51] quite unique, um, and why they're so
[17:54] important. So, frogs and salamanders and
[17:56] nudes and a lot of a lot of
[17:57] invertebrates are high highly vulnerable
[18:00] to fish, and fish obviously need water
[18:02] year round. So, a pool that disappears
[18:04] every summer uh, ends up being one of
[18:06] the most safest places or the most
[18:09] safest place. um a lot of these uh
[18:11] forest uh amphibians uh can lay where
[18:14] they can lay eggs. Um and then so in
[18:17] this particular slide here, the first
[18:19] the top two photos show what uh Harriet
[18:23] Hollister typically looks like in the
[18:24] spring. You have full pools and then at
[18:27] the bottom the bottom two photos here
[18:29] are um of what it looks like in July
[18:32] completely dried up. So we're good to go
[18:35] to the next slide. Um so why do we care?
[18:39] So, there's three reasons. Uh, first,
[18:41] they're critical breeding habitat for
[18:43] amphibians. Um, for a lot of species,
[18:46] this isn't a preference. It's the only
[18:48] place they can, uh, reproduce. Um, which
[18:51] is super important. So, and second, uh,
[18:53] is the diversity. It's not just for
[18:55] frogs and salamanders. Um, there's a
[18:57] whole range of different species that
[18:59] use these pools for shelter, um, for
[19:01] food, for habitat, um, and for their
[19:03] size. They're some of the richest spots
[19:06] in the forest floristically and just
[19:09] with uh many different species utilizing
[19:11] them. And then third, um they do a lot
[19:14] of work for us. So they recharge
[19:16] groundwater. They help um with flood
[19:19] control and improve water quality. And
[19:21] so when you put all of these different
[19:23] things together, uh you get all of these
[19:26] different characters and uh it qualifies
[19:28] as a pretty significant a very
[19:30] significant community. um uh relative
[19:34] hot spots for diversity, niche habitat
[19:37] you don't really find anywhere else. Um
[19:39] pretty pretty sparse throughout the
[19:41] state honestly. And um integral breeding
[19:43] for amphibians is is exactly why we put
[19:47] this these are the reasons why we put
[19:48] two years of survey work into
[19:51] understanding uh what we have here. So
[19:54] we're good to go to the next slide. Um
[19:56] and so using grant funding, survey work
[19:59] ran across the springs of 2025 and 2026.
[20:03] Um we started mapping, walking through
[20:07] the property, surveying and locating uh
[20:09] every pool we could find. Um then egg
[20:13] mass counts. So our staff counted egg
[20:15] masses and identified them down to
[20:17] species. That answers two things things.
[20:20] Um which species are actually using
[20:22] these pools and how productive each pool
[20:25] is. uh for productivity we used the
[20:28] DEEC's criteria which accounts for the
[20:31] species present in um and the number of
[20:34] egg masses that we observed um that were
[20:37] observed in each pool. Um uh we also
[20:40] took physical measurements. So maximum
[20:43] depth uh how long the pool holds water,
[20:46] the pH, um all these things uh give us a
[20:50] structure and chemistry of each pool and
[20:52] that's how we kind of start to
[20:54] understand what these plants and animals
[20:56] actually need here at Harry Hollister
[20:59] specifically. Um and we documented uh
[21:02] plant communities uh in and around every
[21:04] pool along with invasive species we came
[21:06] across. We're good to go to the next
[21:08] slide.
[21:10] So, yeah. Um, so what we found, here's
[21:12] what we found. Um, on a on mapping,
[21:16] there's significant complex of vernal
[21:18] pools spread across this property and we
[21:21] now have a solid picture of where we are
[21:24] and how they're distributed. Um, our
[21:26] colleagues at Natural Heritage Program
[21:28] came out to help with us with that
[21:30] effort as well. Um, but on egg masses,
[21:33] we detected eight species using these
[21:35] pools. In 2025, 58 pools had eggs and 40
[21:39] of those met uh DEEC's criteria for uh
[21:43] productive pool. And then in 2026, 65 uh
[21:47] pools had eggs and uh 55 were deemed
[21:51] productive. Um so over the two years,
[21:54] about 60% of every pool we documented
[21:57] had egg masses in it, which is a is very
[22:00] high. It's a very productive site. Um,
[22:03] these pools are integral to how local
[22:05] amphibians reproduce and uh the species
[22:08] we're seeing do well uh with the
[22:11] elevation here and the relatively low
[22:14] disturbance uh throughout the site as
[22:17] well.
[22:18] Um the physical measurements are still
[22:20] being analyzed uh because conditions
[22:22] vary a lot from from pool to pool. But
[22:25] um in 2025 data points in uh the the
[22:29] data points in a consist consistent
[22:31] direction. Um the pools do best uh the
[22:34] pools that are doing best are deeper um
[22:37] and they hold longer. They're they're
[22:39] relatively undisturbed. Um and uh the
[22:43] plant data told a similar story. A lot
[22:45] of our pools have plant communities
[22:47] diverse enough to meet uh the standard
[22:49] for significant floral quality.
[22:52] Um, and this is where kind of everything
[22:55] comes together. So, our highest scoring
[22:57] pools um are way out into the forest,
[23:00] well away from any trail. Um, and our
[23:03] lowest scoring pool sits right next uh
[23:06] right next to the parking lot um where
[23:09] there's typically a lot of disturbance.
[23:11] Um, every one of six uh lowest scoring
[23:14] pools on on this property is uh directly
[23:18] next to a trail or a parking lot. Um and
[23:21] that pattern is across the the whole
[23:25] data set. Um the pools farthest from
[23:27] disturbance have high the highest
[23:29] ecological diversity and the lowest
[23:32] occurrence of invasives. And then the
[23:33] pools closest to the trails have the
[23:35] lowest diversity and and the most
[23:38] invasives, which is what makes the
[23:40] conserving these communities so
[23:42] important, especially in areas where
[23:44] invasive encroachment is most likely.
[23:48] But um yeah, I'll kick it back to Elena.
[23:54] » Great. Thank you, Charlie. And yes, big
[23:58] thank you to Charlie and his team, Abby
[24:01] Welch, who's sitting next to me right
[24:03] now. This was a tremendous survey
[24:05] effort, two-year survey effort. We now
[24:08] have a solid understanding of the
[24:10] ecological significance of this site.
[24:13] So, this is a critical breeding habitat
[24:16] for amphibians. Um, so one of the
[24:18] biggest threats facing amphibians today
[24:21] is habitat loss and habitat degradation.
[24:25] Um, and as you can see from these
[24:27] photos, some of the existing trails are
[24:30] directly next to or cutting right
[24:32] through vernal pools. And I recall
[24:34] someone mentioning in the previous
[24:36] public meeting that yes, like they they
[24:39] saw tadpoles like within the proximity
[24:42] of of that trail system. So um this this
[24:46] creates impacts uh to the species
[24:48] themselves you know from direct
[24:50] mortality getting crushed um but it also
[24:53] impacts the breeding habitat. So it
[24:56] causes issues with water quality, soil
[24:59] compaction and trampling vegetation.
[25:02] So, as Charlie mentioned, our data
[25:04] suggests that there's lower ecological
[25:07] diversity in vernal pools that are
[25:09] closer to trails and higher incidence of
[25:12] invasive species from that disturbance.
[25:14] So, that makes sense. Um, so overall,
[25:20] um, the site has low incidence of
[25:22] invasive species.
[25:25] However, where invasive species do occur
[25:29] is predominantly along trails. So you
[25:31] can see this map pictured here. We've
[25:33] got the invasive species lit up in this
[25:36] red color. Um so you can see visually
[25:39] that invasive species are found along
[25:42] trails somewhat into the interior. We've
[25:44] got some larger infestations, these
[25:47] polygons. Uh but they tend to spread via
[25:50] trail systems. And so these were all
[25:53] considerations in the trail planning
[25:56] process over the past couple years. And
[25:59] our goal during this this process is to
[26:04] achieve a balance right between the
[26:06] recreation and the preservation of this
[26:08] unique site. So I'll summarize some of
[26:12] our conclusions from the ecological
[26:14] assessment on the next slide.
[26:19] So it turns out that the vernal pool
[26:22] complex at Harriet Hollis Hollister
[26:25] Spencer is much larger than we
[26:27] previously thought. Um
[26:32] the egg mass surveys over the past two
[26:35] years revealed that this is a highly
[26:37] productive site. So we have many many
[26:40] many amphibians coming using these
[26:43] pools, breeding in these pools. uh so
[26:45] much so that this site is now recognized
[26:49] as one of the most important breeding
[26:50] habitats in the state for amphibians.
[26:54] Right? So this is so neat. We have this
[26:56] incredible ecological feature at this
[26:58] park, right? And we want to ensure that
[27:01] we're protecting this sensitive habitat.
[27:04] So what an excellent opportunity that we
[27:06] have to do that. And so looking back at
[27:09] the data, we determined that the trails
[27:12] likely have a negative impact on these
[27:14] vernal pools, right? So like Charlie was
[27:17] mentioning, uh we found that vernal
[27:20] pools closer to trails have lower
[27:22] biodiversity and lower productivity,
[27:25] right? So in other words, uh we found
[27:27] less native plant species documented
[27:30] within those pools closer to trails and
[27:33] parking lots and amphibians. They're not
[27:35] using those pools as readily. Um, so
[27:38] we're still assessing whether or not
[27:40] there are specific features that
[27:42] amphibians key into when it comes to
[27:44] selecting the vernal pools for breed for
[27:47] uh breeding purposes. Um, but that
[27:49] assessment is still ongoing. Um, and I
[27:52] want to mention we we worked very
[27:55] closely with our partners, our
[27:57] collaborators at natural heritage
[27:59] program um, on the survey work. They
[28:02] helped rank the pools. We prioritized
[28:05] areas so that we could make informed
[28:07] decisions during this process. Um, so we
[28:10] really honed in and focused on several
[28:13] key modifications that would have the
[28:15] greatest impact towards conserving these
[28:18] vernal pools and the amphibians that
[28:20] that depend on these, right? This is
[28:22] their their breeding habitat. As Charlie
[28:24] mentioned, it's it's not a choice,
[28:26] right? These are critical for um these
[28:29] populations.
[28:31] And so our goal was very much
[28:33] missiondriven, right? Achieving that
[28:35] balance between recreation and
[28:37] stewardship. Um so to conclude the
[28:41] stewardship section of the program, uh I
[28:44] wanted to convey that this site is
[28:46] special. This site is unique, right?
[28:49] It's why we're all here. It's why we
[28:51] love this park. Um, we certainly don't
[28:53] want our activities and recreation to na
[28:56] negatively impact this unique habitat um
[28:59] and the special critters that that
[29:01] depend on it. And so I'd like to close
[29:04] this section uh with an invitation and
[29:08] an opportunity to come out and visit a
[29:11] vernal pool and learn firsthand about
[29:14] these unique habitats. So the tentative
[29:18] date as of now is April 2027. So, this
[29:22] is the next breeding season for
[29:24] amphibians. Um, so we'll be working
[29:26] closely with Paige and James to ensure
[29:30] this event is publicized. So, please
[29:34] come out, bring your families, bring
[29:36] your friends, and we hope to see you out
[29:39] there. Thank you.
[29:56] So, uh, again, we're going to go back to
[29:59] the public feedback that we took. Um, we
[30:02] had our, uh, attendance in person
[30:05] meeting back, uh, in March, a little
[30:08] over a year ago. Uh in addition to that
[30:11] we received over 110
[30:14] uh comments uh submitted from
[30:17] individuals organizations.
[30:19] Um, and these comments there's I'm not
[30:23] going to go through the whole entire
[30:25] slide, but it was a very very robust and
[30:29] comprehensive and diverse group of uh
[30:32] audience that uh that weighed in on uh
[30:35] what they valued uh with Harriet
[30:38] Hollister. Okay. So, I do want to make
[30:41] it clear that we received great public
[30:44] comment and that was all taken into
[30:46] serious consideration as we put our plan
[30:49] as we put our plan forward.
[30:54] » Thanks, Fred. I think we'll next go to
[30:58] Zach who will speak to trails. And I um
[31:03] think if you go through the
[31:04] presentation, Zach, for your your
[31:07] portion of the presentation, um you'll
[31:09] really emphasize, you know, the the
[31:11] impact public feedback had on some of
[31:13] the more trail specific uh decisions.
[31:18] » Yeah, thanks Paige. Thanks, Fred. Um so
[31:21] yeah,
[31:23] we have been working for the past two
[31:25] years on developing a plan to,
[31:31] for lack of a better word, simplify the
[31:33] trail system at Harriet Hollister. Um
[31:37] we did this through a number of means.
[31:40] Uh most recently, we we considered your
[31:44] public feedback after our meeting in
[31:46] March. Um, as we mentioned in the
[31:48] beginning of the meeting, we had trail
[31:50] counters out on the ground to kind of
[31:52] track usage. Um, we talked to folks in
[31:56] the parking lot. Um, we did some, you
[31:58] know, kind of impromptu and and, uh,
[32:01] informal surveys there. Uh, we looked at
[32:04] the submissions that that people handed
[32:06] in after the public meeting and we took
[32:09] all that to heart. Um, you know, to to
[32:12] reiterate what James had mentioned at
[32:15] the top of the meeting, a lot of the
[32:17] impetus for this was health and safety
[32:20] issues. Um, kind of a lack of uh
[32:25] appropriate wayfinding signage. I know a
[32:28] lot of you are very familiar with the
[32:30] park and very familiar with the trails.
[32:33] um as as
[32:35] you know land managers here, what we
[32:37] were running into is folks who were
[32:39] visiting Harriet Hollister um who
[32:41] weren't as familiar were getting lost uh
[32:44] and they were they were making it known
[32:46] to us that they were having a difficult
[32:47] time uh navigating the trails. Um
[32:52] we also took into consideration
[32:54] uh trail redundancy. So essentially
[32:56] where we have trails on top of trails,
[33:00] uh trails that run parallel to one
[33:02] another, um trails that are getting
[33:05] used, trails that aren't getting used,
[33:07] and trying to focus in on what we can do
[33:09] to simplify this map, simplify the
[33:12] trails on the ground, so we as a an
[33:15] agency can direct our attention and and
[33:18] maintain the trail system to the best of
[33:20] our ability.
[33:23] um and also make it safe for for
[33:25] everybody who is here using the park. Um
[33:28] what you see on this first slide is the
[33:30] original map that is on your left. Um in
[33:34] the center was our first proposed draft.
[33:38] Um
[33:40] and on the the right is our finalized
[33:43] map. And so the differences that we're
[33:45] going to lay out, the differences that
[33:47] we're going to talk about um are are
[33:50] things that we close. So we we did
[33:52] eliminate some trails. Uh things that we
[33:55] will retain. Um and a lot of the things
[33:59] that we are retaining are based directly
[34:02] on your feedback in the comments that we
[34:04] got um after our meeting in March and
[34:08] through surveys we conducted uh over the
[34:10] past year plus. Um we added additional
[34:15] trails that we had originally removed.
[34:17] Uh, and that's a direct response to your
[34:19] comments. And just overall when I put
[34:22] this map together and when we developed
[34:24] this map, the big thing I was trying to
[34:26] do was to be objective and develop trail
[34:30] loops and trail systems
[34:34] um that
[34:36] are going to be usable that hopefully
[34:39] maintain the trails that are are
[34:41] actively being used um
[34:45] and also aren't having an extreme uh
[34:48] impact on the stewardship and
[34:50] environmental concerns um that Elena and
[34:53] Charlie just discussed. Um so we're
[34:56] going to zero in on a few changes. Uh so
[34:58] Paige, if you want, you can advance
[35:00] slides here.
[35:03] So this is a little bit uh I'm going to
[35:07] say it's a little bit hard to see
[35:08] because we have maps and we have zoomed
[35:11] in areas on maps. Um, so this first area
[35:15] is the the blue spruce route uh loop or
[35:17] the spruce run. This is a good example
[35:20] of of trails where these were running
[35:23] directly through a large vernal pool
[35:26] complex. So after we did that uh draft
[35:30] proposal map that we presented in March,
[35:33] we received a lot of data about vernal
[35:37] pool complexes and how active those
[35:40] vernal pool complexes are at Harriet
[35:42] Hollister. So it was in our best
[35:46] interest and the best interest of the
[35:48] site to to shutter some of those trails.
[35:52] So this slide shows the original map
[35:54] again on the far left, the proposed
[35:57] draft that we presented in March in the
[35:58] center and now um the finalized map that
[36:02] we have on the right. Um so we
[36:05] eliminated a leg uh of that that loop.
[36:09] Um and and that was again in response to
[36:12] the vernal pool um complex that that was
[36:16] essentially right in the center of of
[36:18] that that uh western leg of the the red
[36:21] spruce sloop. So some of the things we
[36:23] shut down, some of the things we removed
[36:25] uh were were there uh were taken away
[36:28] primarily to protect vernal pools um and
[36:31] environmental concerns. Okay, we can
[36:34] move to the next slide.
[36:38] Um, this is another example of of a a
[36:42] larger trail loop that was was removed
[36:44] due to vernal pools. This is uh part of
[36:47] the single track uh loop, the the S6
[36:51] loop. Um, lot of different names, a lot
[36:54] of different markers for it. Um, but
[36:56] this runs into again the the western
[36:59] side of the park. uh and it was an area
[37:02] that was uh directly uh in conflict with
[37:05] with a pretty substantial vernal pool
[37:08] complex. So um we still tried to
[37:11] maintain as much of that loop as we
[37:15] could. Um so just kind of removed an
[37:17] area that was was going to be in
[37:19] conflict with those vernal pools.
[37:22] From a trail maintenance perspective,
[37:24] vernal pools often indicate an area is
[37:26] going to be wet, um have a lot of
[37:29] standing water, uh you know, especially
[37:32] in the shoulder season. So, you know,
[37:34] another thing we looked at is is our
[37:36] ability to to maintain those areas. Um
[37:40] you know, one of our goals moving
[37:42] forward now that we've kind of uh
[37:44] consolidated the trail system in the map
[37:46] is to to have a more active role in in
[37:50] improving trails. um and and doing
[37:52] maintenance on the trail system that
[37:54] that we we have moving forward.
[37:57] All right. So, uh we can move ahead to
[37:59] the next slide.
[38:03] Uh another example right here. Uh not to
[38:06] get too too crazy with the vernal pools,
[38:09] but you can see it on the map. There's a
[38:11] big blue [laughter] a big big blue body
[38:14] of water right there. Um this trail
[38:17] there's a few different alignments that
[38:19] are are actually on the ground. This
[38:21] this map really only shows one of them.
[38:24] Um so this was an area of concern uh due
[38:27] to vernal pool complexes. And if you
[38:29] want to jump ahead to the next slide um
[38:31] we can show how that's changed. Not a
[38:34] drastic change. This is essentially uh
[38:37] you can see it. It's kind of faint on
[38:38] the map on the left on the draft map. We
[38:41] essentially just eliminated one section
[38:43] of trail and realigned it to another
[38:45] section of trail that was I believe
[38:48] getting used more um you know and and
[38:52] was an active trail unmapped but still
[38:54] being used. So you know this is a case
[38:57] where we we didn't actively remove a
[38:59] section of trail. We essentially
[39:01] realigned it to another um another trail
[39:04] that was unmapped but was still being
[39:07] used. So this kind of falls into that
[39:09] category of
[39:11] trying to protect vernal pool and
[39:13] environmental assets uh and then trying
[39:15] to eliminate um trail redundancy and
[39:18] keeping a trail within that that
[39:21] vicinity that that is actively getting
[39:24] used. Um
[39:26] so all right we can advance to the next
[39:28] slide.
[39:32] Change number four. This is uh
[39:36] this was an interesting spot. Still is
[39:38] an interesting spot. Um
[39:42] this was a difficult area because
[39:44] there's a whole lot of trails in there.
[39:46] Um this is the original map. Um there's
[39:49] a lot going on. Um you know, this is a
[39:52] spot that's heavily used with a lot of
[39:54] crisscrossing trails, a lot of trails
[39:56] that run parallel to one another. um
[39:59] trails that are utilized by everybody
[40:02] who comes to the park. Um the
[40:04] unfortunate thing in this area is that
[40:06] not all of them were used consistently.
[40:09] Um some of them were mapped and they
[40:11] appeared to not have been used in who
[40:14] knows how long, years most likely. Um
[40:18] and this is one of the areas where
[40:20] people can be uh real close to the
[40:22] parking lot, but they can walk in
[40:24] circles until the end of time and have
[40:26] no idea where they are. Uh, so this was
[40:28] a spot we wanted to try to simplify um
[40:33] if for anything from a a health and
[40:35] safety perspective to try to make this
[40:37] area more more navigable for people who
[40:39] aren't completely familiar with the
[40:41] park. Um, so as you see here in this
[40:44] slide, um, our draft map from March, uh,
[40:48] we simplified this area. Um but then
[40:51] based on public comments um based on
[40:54] some feedback on that map uh we we
[40:59] basically altered the loop so we have a
[41:01] longer run in that section and maintain
[41:04] certain aspects and certain trails uh
[41:07] trail alignments that were getting uh
[41:09] heavily used um that we had originally
[41:12] um you know kind of taken off the map in
[41:14] the the dra uh draft proposal. Um, so
[41:17] again, not there there are changes, but
[41:20] not all of them are are significantly
[41:22] dramatic. Um, you know, a lot of this is
[41:24] is it's about cleaning up the map more
[41:27] so than cleaning up a lot of the trails
[41:29] on the ground. There will be trails that
[41:32] are shuttered um that that have been
[41:34] used historically and are continually
[41:36] being used. Um, but the the majority of
[41:40] what has been changed is on paper. what
[41:44] is on the ground is not going to be
[41:46] significantly off uh altered. As I said,
[41:49] I did my best to try to maintain
[41:52] the loops and the longer loops that were
[41:55] available in the park, trying to create
[41:58] uh continuity
[41:59] um within the trail systems uh that we
[42:02] have as as much as I can and at the same
[42:05] time um doing our best to to really uh
[42:10] respect those environmental concerns uh
[42:12] that that were brought up over the past
[42:14] year.
[42:16] All right. If you'd like, we can uh we
[42:18] can advance forward.
[42:22] Then on the bottom, this is another
[42:24] thing. After evaluating public comments,
[42:26] uh this map shows an area where there is
[42:30] a a trail. It is a trail that gets used.
[42:32] We all know it gets used. We all know
[42:34] it's there even though it's not on the
[42:35] map. Um originally on our draft map, uh
[42:38] we can jump forward to our next slide.
[42:41] Um, we had kept that area off the draft
[42:45] map that's on the left. Um, but after
[42:47] some public feedback, uh, we decided to
[42:51] keep,
[42:52] I think, the, uh, the Rattler. Um, we're
[42:55] going to keep that one. And, uh, you
[42:58] know, again, this allows us, it's
[43:01] institutionalized. It's on the map.
[43:03] we're going to do um a better job with
[43:05] getting in there and trying to again
[43:07] maintain these trails and and you know
[43:10] keep them up the snuff so it's uh it's a
[43:13] safe safe trail for for everybody
[43:15] involved.
[43:17] All right, we can jump ahead from that
[43:19] slide
[43:21] and uh moving forward. Um I think James,
[43:26] are you taking this one on?
[43:29] » Yep, that's me.
[43:31] » Yeah. So, uh, I'll kick this over to
[43:33] James.
[43:34] » All right. Thank you, Zach. Uh,
[43:36] honestly, the the next steps I'm super
[43:38] excited about. Um, you know, we've got
[43:41] signage in the facility that would be
[43:43] upcoming. Uh, currently the kiosk has,
[43:46] uh, an image of the map that's posted.
[43:49] Uh, currently all the trails represented
[43:51] on that map. Uh, Zach and the trails
[43:54] crew put blazes that match the colors.
[43:56] So, now that data, uh, reflects what you
[43:59] see in the field. Um, Zach had mentioned
[44:02] that some of the decommissioned trails
[44:05] still exist on site, but when you come
[44:07] to an intersection with your map, you
[44:09] would see this trails marked red, that
[44:12] one has no markings. Uh, and you'd be
[44:15] able to correlate that with your
[44:16] directions. Um, during this whole
[44:19] process, um, I've, you know, I'm a fan
[44:22] of interpretive signage, just saying
[44:24] things about plants and animals that
[44:26] live in the park. Uh, and over the past
[44:28] couple seasons, there's a lot to say
[44:30] about this park. Uh, but I've been
[44:32] hesitant to put any of this material out
[44:34] before I was confident I had wayfinding
[44:36] materials out. Uh, so now that we have a
[44:40] clear direction of the facility, I would
[44:42] like to see um, you know, signs that say
[44:46] you are here. If you need help, here's
[44:48] some information. I'd like to see signs
[44:50] about salamanders and ferns and all the
[44:52] uh you know the natural assets in the
[44:55] park uh so people can learn about these
[44:57] things um you know in the summer and in
[45:00] the winter. Uh and as far as trail rehab
[45:05] in the future uh now that we can
[45:07] prioritize what trails need what and
[45:10] what are more important. uh we can
[45:12] decide, you know, which ones get more
[45:13] gravel or which ones during a uh storm
[45:17] event should I have my staff go to first
[45:19] and make sure is accessible. Um you
[45:22] know, these are all things that I'm
[45:23] looking to overall improve the facility
[45:26] that, you know, I think at the end of
[45:28] this uh all of the users will enjoy. Uh
[45:31] so I'm really excited about the future
[45:33] for the facility. Um, and to talk more
[45:36] about our next slide is uh Lindsay.
[45:47] All right, you can probably see and hear
[45:49] me. Thank you, Jeff. Um, as the plans
[45:51] come together, um, as with all projects
[45:54] at state parks, um, the project will
[45:56] undergo an environmental review of some
[45:59] kind. um class uh projects or actions um
[46:04] are typically classified according to
[46:07] uh criteria within secret regulations.
[46:10] There's general three types of
[46:12] classification. A type two action is
[46:15] already determined not to have a
[46:17] significant impact on the environment.
[46:19] An environmental review under SECRA um
[46:22] is essentially not move forward at that
[46:24] point. Um
[46:26] a type one action is the opposite of
[46:28] that. it's more likely to have a
[46:30] significant adverse impact on the
[46:32] environment. And then everything in
[46:33] between a type two and a type one is an
[46:35] unlisted action. So that's three
[46:38] different ways of thinking about um a
[46:40] project or an action under secret.
[46:43] And even when an action or a project is
[46:45] classified as a type two, an
[46:47] environmental review is still completed.
[46:49] So there's various aspects um such as
[46:51] division uh sorry review by the division
[46:54] of historic preservation um permits that
[46:56] might be needed depending on what's
[46:58] proposed um and general alignment with
[47:00] agency policies or best management
[47:02] practices that's good to um consider as
[47:05] we move forward with the project. And so
[47:07] I just wanted to touch on that and um
[47:10] pass the presentation back to the next
[47:13] presenter.
[47:21] All right, there we go. Unmuted. Hello
[47:23] again. So, we have reached the end of
[47:25] our formal presentation, which brings us
[47:28] to the part I think most of you, now
[47:30] that we've gone through it, are excited
[47:32] about. You might have some questions or
[47:34] comments you'd like to make. I've been
[47:36] trying to keep track of them um here in
[47:39] a spreadsheet, and I have them all in
[47:42] the chat. So, I'm just going to start
[47:44] working my way.
[47:46] » Um,
[47:46] » Paige, let me let me just interject for
[47:48] one one minute. I've been keeping track
[47:50] of the comments, too, and and I want to
[47:52] go back to something and I I forgot to
[47:54] say this at the get-go, but you know,
[47:56] the the one of the big things that we
[47:59] are really hoping to come from this is
[48:02] that all of the user groups will adopt
[48:04] the map that we are presenting this
[48:06] evening. so that we've got one common
[48:09] map that is available for not only park
[48:12] staff and user groups but most
[48:15] importantly for our first responders and
[48:18] uh in case of we of of emergency
[48:20] situations. So please please please
[48:24] stand by the promise you made and let's
[48:27] all agree that this is the map that
[48:29] we're going to be using moving forward.
[48:31] So this is the map for your websites.
[48:33] This is the map for when you are running
[48:36] events. Uh this is really important for
[48:40] us to manage this property in the future
[48:44] and to make the improvements that uh uh
[48:46] Zach is is is planning on on doing to
[48:49] the trails uh so that we're putting our
[48:51] resources most effectively forward for
[48:54] the public's benefit.
[48:56] And I'll also go back to the fact that I
[48:59] seeing all of the questions and the
[49:01] comments about uh horseback riding at
[49:04] the facility. It's important to remember
[49:06] that that has never been an allowable
[49:09] activity at Harriet Hollister. It's
[49:12] taken place. We know that it's taken
[49:14] place, but uh we were asked to consider
[49:18] whether it would become an available
[49:21] activity. And based on our research that
[49:25] we've shared with you this evening, the
[49:27] comprehensive research that was done
[49:30] both on uh natural areas, trail
[49:32] conditions, what the impact of uh
[49:35] horseback riding would be in this very
[49:37] special place. We have determined that
[49:40] that is not a compatible activity at
[49:42] Harriet Hollister. Okay. So, I I I
[49:46] apologize for disappointing our
[49:48] equestrian friends. Uh but um we will
[49:52] not be opening up Harry Hollister uh to
[49:55] horseback riding. It's never been
[49:56] allowed. It's been resigned as not being
[49:59] an allowable activity. And uh so uh
[50:03] we're just we we've got to maintain that
[50:05] line, I'm afraid. Okay. So uh Paige,
[50:08] I'll kick it back to you. We can move
[50:10] into those questions uh that you were
[50:12] starting to compile.
[50:14] » Sounds good. And I see that we have two
[50:16] folks uh with their hands raised. So, I
[50:19] think uh I'll call on you first. So, uh
[50:23] I see a hand raised by Chris and I am
[50:27] going to unmute you and it should pop up
[50:29] a little prompt on your screen, Chris.
[50:31] Um allowing you to speak. So, give me
[50:38] » They tried to shut that down
[50:41] and um somebody went back to the
[50:44] original
[50:46] D transfer or whatever that was where it
[50:49] gave and it was like
[50:50] » I remember Ray like whatever and that's
[50:52] why he was going to be
[50:53] » Well got the from us for us but it
[50:57] was
[50:58] from Harriet Hollister
[51:03] or it was from the original owners to
[51:05] Harry or whatever, but it wasn't
[51:10] to the state
[51:13] where it would have said
[51:16] um okay, horseback riding is allowed.
[51:22] » Thank you, Chris.
[51:33] All right. Next in our queue, I believe,
[51:35] is Lindsay Labella. I will be unmuting
[51:38] your mic.
[51:40] All right, Lindsay, your mic is live.
[51:44] » Hi, Brad. I know you were saying that
[51:47] the horsebacks were never allowed. We
[51:50] know it happened. I mean, we've been
[51:52] riding there for eons. Um, we did
[51:56] respectfully get off of the property per
[51:59] your request to do this study.
[52:03] You have yet to actually state what
[52:05] specifically the horse traffic was doing
[52:09] that would be worse than the bike or
[52:11] foot traffic. Can you please explain the
[52:14] exact reasoning with metrics as to why
[52:17] horse traffic would be so detrimental?
[52:20] Sure. So, I'll start and I'll I'll I'll
[52:22] kick it over to, you know, some of the
[52:24] other technical experts here, but you
[52:27] know, horseback riding is uh more
[52:30] damaging to trail infrastructure,
[52:32] especially trails that are naturally wet
[52:35] areas. Uh uh and so as we were doing
[52:38] that assessment, we looked at the impact
[52:41] knowing what we do know about horseback
[52:43] riding activities and other state park
[52:46] facilities
[52:47] uh and how that could possibly be
[52:50] incorporated at Herod Hollister. Uh that
[52:53] review, the weight of the courses, the
[52:56] impact on the trail surface, uh that's
[52:59] what uh allowed us uh to to to make this
[53:01] determination. And uh uh Chris Morris,
[53:05] are you are are you on any comment on
[53:07] that to follow up?
[53:10] » Yeah, I mean I would agree. I think um
[53:12] you know some of the items that we
[53:14] touched on if uh at the original meeting
[53:18] or you know if we are to include this
[53:22] activity, right, the conditions that the
[53:24] trails need to be in for them to be
[53:26] appropriate for equestrian use, right?
[53:28] um just because it's a informally um
[53:32] unauthorized use that occurs
[53:33] occasionally. You know, if we are
[53:35] opening up trails to a user group, we
[53:38] want to make sure that those trails uh
[53:40] meet the standards that that we need as
[53:43] parks to to welcome that activity.
[53:45] Right? So, um I think that's one of the
[53:48] considerations here is that the soil
[53:50] conditions, the environmental
[53:51] conditions, the width of the trails, the
[53:53] trail networks, um and the existing
[53:56] allowed uses uh are all uh not
[54:00] compatible with equestrian use.
[54:04] I I'm trying to wrap my head around that
[54:07] because the park has been doing just
[54:10] fine with the equestrian use that you
[54:12] can actually expect there already prior
[54:15] to the one incident that shed light on
[54:17] this issue.
[54:19] I mean equestrians are more than happy
[54:21] to adjust our time, you know, ride there
[54:23] from July to October when the ponds have
[54:27] dried up.
[54:29] We don't have a problem with modifying
[54:32] our times to go out there to be included
[54:34] in this so we all can enjoy it and you
[54:37] can have our support to be able to work
[54:40] to protect areas like this versus
[54:43] excluding us.
[54:49] » Again, I'm I'm standing by my prior
[54:52] statement. This was not an allowable
[54:54] activity. This has not been an allowable
[54:56] activity. And when we take a look at
[54:59] what an increase in that activity would
[55:03] represent in the facility should it be
[55:05] allowed, it was determined that we
[55:07] cannot maintain our roles of being
[55:11] stewards to these public lands, these
[55:13] very special public lands that we've
[55:15] come to learn about and accommodate the
[55:19] the the user groups that are also using
[55:21] it. So, uh we are simply standing by
[55:24] what was already in place. We're not
[55:26] making any changes. We're simply
[55:28] reinforcing what had already been the
[55:31] standard practice of of use at Harriet
[55:33] Hollister.
[55:36] » And just so folks know when I I do a
[55:39] podcast about this for the area, what is
[55:42] the ramifications
[55:46] should somebody go over there and trail
[55:49] ride?
[55:51] Well, there there is currently there has
[55:53] been historically there has been signage
[55:56] noting that that's not an allowable
[55:58] activity. Um that signage is regularly
[56:01] removed. Okay. So that's destruction of
[56:04] state parks property.
[56:06] » That's not I'm I'm about I'm about to
[56:09] finish I'm about to please Lindsay give
[56:11] me a second here. So we have installed
[56:15] more permanent signage uh that uh it
[56:18] would be very difficult. It would be
[56:21] pretty it would be criminal to destroy
[56:23] these signs. It is criminal to destroy
[56:25] these signs. So you risk you risk uh
[56:28] being warned by park police should they
[56:30] be on site. Uh and you also risk being
[56:33] ticketed by park police should they need
[56:35] the uh the the individual uh to be
[56:38] non-compliant, non-listing. So there is
[56:41] a risk of being of receiving
[56:44] » I'm sorry. Go ahead please. My question
[56:46] actually is what is that ticket and what
[56:48] is the cost?
[56:49] » That's at the that's at the discretion
[56:51] of park police.
[56:56] » They just make up a price.
[57:00] » Well, they issue a ticket and then it
[57:02] goes to court and the judge determines
[57:04] that.
[57:07] » That doesn't seem
[57:10] lawful. Usually our laws state that you
[57:14] have there is a consequence for your
[57:17] actions on paper written. I'm just
[57:20] curious what that actually is.
[57:27] » Again, it would be uh uh not allowed use
[57:32] uh trespass perhaps. There's a number of
[57:34] of regulations that uh horseback riding
[57:37] would be in violation of
[57:39] » The park police would determine.
[57:42] Go ahead.
[57:45] » I will deal it. I will talk to my
[57:48] environmental lawyer since you don't
[57:50] actually know the answer.
[57:52] » That's that's fine. Yeah.
[57:57] » All right. Thanks, Lindsay. I want to
[57:59] get to while we're on the equestrian
[58:01] topic, I'll I'll um go back up to our
[58:04] first question. Just want to sort of
[58:06] cover the equestrian questions and then
[58:08] we'll move on to um some of the trail
[58:11] ones.
[58:12] So, um comment from Pauline Burns of the
[58:17] New York State Horse Council.
[58:20] Equestrians are not allowed access to
[58:22] Harriet Hollister. um says, "Please
[58:25] provide a list of other opportunities
[58:26] where trail riders might have access to
[58:28] trails on public lands. We keep losing
[58:30] ground and access to trails." Um so I
[58:34] don't know if Chris or Fred you want to
[58:35] sort of comment on a statewide
[58:37] perspective about some other trail
[58:39] options.
[58:43] » Um yeah, I mean I can feel that one.
[58:45] page. Uh, you know, I don't have a map
[58:47] in front of me with all of the different
[58:49] um potential locations, although we did
[58:52] look at that and to see what was
[58:54] reasonable distance from Harriet
[58:55] Hollister for other uh equestrian
[58:58] destinations. I know for parks
[59:00] specifically, um, you know, I think the
[59:03] closest geographically as the crow flies
[59:05] would be Jennese Valley Greenway, which
[59:07] uh allows equestrian use. Um, and then
[59:09] as you go a little bit further out, uh,
[59:11] I think the next closest places are more
[59:14] than likely DEEC, um, facilities, uh,
[59:17] that allow equestrian use. Um,
[59:21] so I don't have a list off the top of my
[59:23] head of all the locations nearby that
[59:26] could allow that use. Um, but it isn't
[59:29] something that blanket, you know, is is
[59:31] not allowed. In fact, there's many
[59:32] places that do allow it both in parks
[59:34] and DEEC.
[59:36] » Thanks. And I'll I'll add one comment to
[59:38] Pauline. I believe on um state parks
[59:41] website you can go to um a page and
[59:44] filter by activity and you can specially
[59:46] select out equestrian use. And I think
[59:49] it brings up about 20 25 state park
[59:53] facilities. My memory is not spot on on
[59:55] that, but definitely check out our
[59:56] website where you can um filter out by
[59:59] equestrian use and it'll take you to
[1:00:01] that park specific website. Um, I see
[1:00:03] you've got your hand raised, so let me
[1:00:05] unmute your mic.
[1:00:08] All right, Pauline, your mic is
[1:00:11] » Yeah, I had a couple of questions I
[1:00:13] actually just put in the comment box.
[1:00:15] One of them was that in March of 2025,
[1:00:18] there was some discussion about
[1:00:19] designing a threemile loop for
[1:00:21] equestrian equestrians and I think that
[1:00:24] got u hopes up that equestrians would be
[1:00:27] allowed. Can you explain why that loop
[1:00:30] um was it ever designed or considered?
[1:00:39] » Uh go ahead, Zach. I was I was Yeah, I
[1:00:43] was trying to fill the void. You got it.
[1:00:44] » Yeah. Yeah, we can we can I can take
[1:00:46] this on. So So yeah, Pauline, we we did
[1:00:49] consider that. I mean it was something
[1:00:50] that uh you know we looked at um
[1:00:54] pretty pretty heavily. Um and one of the
[1:00:58] big drivers for this uh and the reason
[1:01:02] why we didn't go with that loop um is is
[1:01:06] the loop we set out uh was it conflicted
[1:01:11] with a lot of these vernal pool areas.
[1:01:14] um that threemile loop, the initial
[1:01:18] design for that was to try to balance a
[1:01:22] longer ride for equestrians at Harriet
[1:01:24] Hollister without having a lot of
[1:01:27] significant impact on other trail users
[1:01:31] essentially
[1:01:33] to make a long loop that would you know
[1:01:35] be worth riding and worth the trip to
[1:01:37] the park um but also not kind of lead to
[1:01:42] conflicts with other user groups.
[1:01:44] Um, you know, the elephant in the room
[1:01:46] right now, I think, is that a lot of the
[1:01:48] public comments, you know, the
[1:01:51] overwhelming bulk of public comments,
[1:01:54] um, requested that we didn't consider
[1:01:57] equestrian use and that we didn't allow
[1:01:58] it, that we kept it as an unallowable
[1:02:00] use in the park. Um, that that guided
[1:02:03] the decision, but, you know, ultimately
[1:02:05] it was that balanced with um the
[1:02:08] environmental concerns that that came to
[1:02:10] light after our meeting in March. Um so
[1:02:13] that that drafted horse loop um you know
[1:02:17] that ran through a lot of the areas that
[1:02:21] uh that have these vernal pool
[1:02:23] complexes. Um it also uh are areas of
[1:02:26] trail sections of trail that we we um
[1:02:29] have decommissioned on on the finalized
[1:02:32] map. So, you know, again, we were trying
[1:02:36] to be as objective as possible, trying
[1:02:38] to consider every bit of information
[1:02:41] that we had at our disposal. Um, so
[1:02:46] yeah, you know, the ultimate decision
[1:02:47] was to to maintain um, you know, the
[1:02:51] rule that had had been in place
[1:02:52] historically.
[1:02:56] » Thanks, Zach. All right. I know we're at
[1:02:59] 7 o'lock, so I want to keep us moving
[1:03:02] through questions. So, um, can always
[1:03:04] return to a topic. Um, but I want to get
[1:03:07] to some more, uh, trails sort of
[1:03:11] questions we've got. Uh, Craig asks, "Is
[1:03:14] there any talk about adding trails
[1:03:16] further south down by Dutch Hollow
[1:03:18] Road?"
[1:03:23] » Uh, I can feel this one again at the
[1:03:26] moment. Um,
[1:03:29] no. Uh, we have basically been focusing
[1:03:33] most of our attention right now on the
[1:03:36] main parcel. Um, you know, we're trying
[1:03:39] to devote our efforts there. Um, you
[1:03:43] know, in the future, it's not to say
[1:03:44] that that's not a possibility, but as of
[1:03:46] now, we're kind of keeping that that
[1:03:49] section of of Harriet Hollister uh as
[1:03:51] is. um because we we've spent a lot of a
[1:03:56] lot of our mental capacity um focusing
[1:03:58] on the main main parcel and James I
[1:04:01] don't know if you have uh additional uh
[1:04:04] information on that but
[1:04:09] you know at the moment you know we've
[1:04:11] been trying to you know through this
[1:04:13] whole process we really discovered you
[1:04:15] know a lot about the facility uh and how
[1:04:18] sensitive some of these places are um
[1:04:21] and Many of the people in this room, you
[1:04:23] know, we're we're advocates for
[1:04:25] recreation. You know, I I'm here to
[1:04:27] promote my facilities and say, you know,
[1:04:30] I these are the amenities I offer.
[1:04:32] Please come to this park and do these
[1:04:33] things. Um so, when we're reviewing the
[1:04:37] equestrian question, um that section of
[1:04:40] the property that had very little data
[1:04:43] for it, uh has also ended up having a
[1:04:47] lot of assets that's good for it. Um so
[1:04:49] if we were to develop anything in those
[1:04:51] areas certainly what's sensitive and the
[1:04:55] reviews of these uh sections would take
[1:04:58] some time for us to you know process um
[1:05:02] and I think as far as you know
[1:05:04] equestrian or any other user you know
[1:05:07] when we looked at the data and looked at
[1:05:09] the property you know I have to say you
[1:05:12] know once we open up the park to a new
[1:05:16] user group that not had that had not
[1:05:18] already been allowed. We had to be on
[1:05:21] the same page that the facility itself
[1:05:23] could take the impact of now me going
[1:05:26] online and putting on Facebook, come to
[1:05:28] my park. These are the activities I
[1:05:30] provide. And I think once we had all of
[1:05:32] that data collected with the comments
[1:05:35] and all the decision-m sort of is what's
[1:05:37] gearing us is where we can uh you know
[1:05:41] develop certain areas and where we
[1:05:42] can't. Um but you never know if more
[1:05:45] lands are required. There's always
[1:05:47] things that can happen in the future.
[1:05:48] You know, I am still trying to, you
[1:05:51] know, I still would like to invite as
[1:05:53] many users as I can have that safely can
[1:05:55] use the property and follow the mission
[1:05:57] statement of the agency uh for
[1:06:00] recreation and for protecting the
[1:06:02] environment. Um, so really, you know,
[1:06:04] the future's wide open, but at the
[1:06:06] moment we're focused on this specific
[1:06:08] topic. I hope that is my long-winded way
[1:06:11] of answering your question.
[1:06:13] » Thanks, James. All right, Brian's had
[1:06:16] his hand patiently up, so Brian, I'm
[1:06:18] going to unmute your mic.
[1:06:22] » Thank you, Paige. Um, Brian Warwick,
[1:06:24] I've been uh
[1:06:26] » Using the park for about 30 years.
[1:06:28] » I got to say, I I other than the Bear
[1:06:31] Pond, which is what we called that
[1:06:33] vernal pond that the mountain bike trail
[1:06:35] kind of skirts um toward the uh uh
[1:06:39] southern edge of it. I didn't know there
[1:06:42] were that many vernal ponds there. So,
[1:06:44] uh, congratulations for finding every
[1:06:45] one of them. Question about, uh, natural
[1:06:49] heritage and what that might mean for
[1:06:52] the future uses of the park. Do they
[1:06:54] play a role, um, in in influencing uh,
[1:06:59] preservation, stewardship, uh,
[1:07:01] guidelines and and possibly limiting
[1:07:04] use?
[1:07:08] » Yep, I I can take that one. Yeah. So our
[1:07:12] our partnership with natural heritage
[1:07:15] program is such that they play an
[1:07:18] advisory role right. So like we take
[1:07:21] their input and then we decide as the
[1:07:25] agency like with with James with Fred
[1:07:29] with Kathy we decide what's appropriate
[1:07:31] for the site. Um so they they we
[1:07:35] collaborated
[1:07:36] extensively on this particular project
[1:07:39] just because of the significance of this
[1:07:41] site. Um but that doesn't necessarily
[1:07:44] mean that that they will dictate um you
[1:07:47] know how we decide to interpret the data
[1:07:50] and and use the site. So as of now I
[1:07:53] think this concept I mentioned like we
[1:07:56] we really honed in. So we were like, you
[1:07:59] know, where are locations where it's
[1:08:01] absolutely missionritical?
[1:08:03] You know, trails that are bisecting
[1:08:05] protective verna pools, like those are
[1:08:07] the ones we we focused on to to take
[1:08:09] offline, right? Because that's going to
[1:08:11] have the biggest ecological impact in
[1:08:14] terms of of restoration. Um, so removing
[1:08:17] some of those sections of trails,
[1:08:20] uh, from our perspective,
[1:08:24] it it's going to have the biggest
[1:08:25] impact. So something we didn't talk much
[1:08:27] about, we talked a lot about the
[1:08:28] breeding habitat, but so these pools are
[1:08:31] all all over the park, very close
[1:08:33] together. So they're a complex,
[1:08:36] right? And so amphibians,
[1:08:39] they're hanging out in the upland
[1:08:41] forest, right? And then in the spring,
[1:08:42] we call that it's an explosive
[1:08:45] migration. And I'm sure folks that live
[1:08:46] in the area, like you see these animals
[1:08:49] on the roads, like they're they're
[1:08:50] coming down in droves. There's just
[1:08:52] thousands. And so they come down to
[1:08:55] these these pools for their breeding.
[1:08:57] And so having trails bicting all these
[1:08:59] vernal pools, that's that's also an
[1:09:01] impact, right? So they're they're trying
[1:09:03] to get from their upland habitat to
[1:09:05] their breeding habitat. So taking
[1:09:07] certain sections offline, that provides
[1:09:09] additional connectivity. You know, we're
[1:09:12] decreasing the impact on the breeding
[1:09:14] habitat as well. So again, we we we
[1:09:17] really tried to focus here so that we
[1:09:19] achieve that balance.
[1:09:23] Well, it looks very well done so far.
[1:09:25] What I've seen looks great. U my other
[1:09:27] two questions are are um trail use wise.
[1:09:30] Uh in the wintertime, uh the trails have
[1:09:32] been well groomed for Nordic skiing by
[1:09:35] the Rochester Cross Country Ski
[1:09:36] Foundation. Is that going to be allowed
[1:09:38] to continue?
[1:09:43] » Uh yes, that activity would be allowed
[1:09:45] to continue. uh we would most likely a
[1:09:48] lot of the core of what is on the trail
[1:09:52] map still uh reflect some of the uh race
[1:09:56] data and some of the you know the
[1:09:58] permits that receive are also the
[1:10:00] highest used of some of these things.
[1:10:02] You know we may have to slightly alter
[1:10:04] uh what paths are getting groomed. Like
[1:10:07] I said we kind of some of the trails
[1:10:09] that we remove parallel of you know
[1:10:12] maybe you would only groom one of the
[1:10:14] two. So there'll probably be a little
[1:10:15] bit of, you know, tweaking of what your
[1:10:18] normal map is. Uh but we expect the
[1:10:21] winter operations to be very similar.
[1:10:24] » Thank you. Uh lastly,
[1:10:27] » Any planned trail works uh in the future
[1:10:32] uh the
[1:10:34] Grock group and a a friend group of that
[1:10:38] I'm part of called the guild. We can
[1:10:40] muster 20 plus bodies to help out
[1:10:42] whenever that happens. So if you need
[1:10:45] that help or you'd like that help, let
[1:10:47] us know.
[1:10:49] » Yeah. And that that'd be excellent. And
[1:10:50] that's one thing I will throw out since
[1:10:52] you mentioned it and I think another uh
[1:10:56] another participant in the meeting had
[1:10:58] asked about this. Uh I am very open to
[1:11:02] having you know volunteer help uh having
[1:11:05] volunteer input um to come in and give
[1:11:08] us a hand. I know, you know, there's
[1:11:10] been a lot of work done on these trails
[1:11:12] and it has been very much a a
[1:11:14] communitymaintained resource. um as we
[1:11:17] we move through the next uh you know few
[1:11:20] months uh and into the next year um I
[1:11:23] will work with with James uh and Paige
[1:11:27] and we can uh get some dates on the
[1:11:29] calendar and get a mechanism you know to
[1:11:32] coordinate some work days uh and get a
[1:11:34] better communication flow between what
[1:11:37] uh my team is doing and what our plans
[1:11:38] are um with you know the greater
[1:11:41] community that's using using Harry
[1:11:42] Hollister um
[1:11:46] when interested feel free to to reach
[1:11:49] out to me and if you're saying hey we
[1:11:51] see this we'd like to do something like
[1:11:53] this you know we can we can work on that
[1:11:54] as well um I think you had another
[1:11:57] question
[1:11:58] » Z let me let me just jump in real quick
[1:12:00] because I I just want to support you in
[1:12:02] this because we do have great experience
[1:12:04] working with Fingerlakes Trail Council
[1:12:07] um Fingerlakes Land Trust uh we've we've
[1:12:10] we've worked with a lot of and Zach
[1:12:13] manages those those those partnerships
[1:12:15] and those improvements incredibly
[1:12:17] incredibly well.
[1:12:19] » Good. Good. I'm I'm sure Zach is
[1:12:21] familiar with anyone who's been trained
[1:12:23] by the inbetral care crew, too. So, we
[1:12:26] we're all schooled by them.
[1:12:28] » Great.
[1:12:28] » Uh Zach, is your email the same? Uh Zack
[1:12:31] Ballard at parks yorkgov.
[1:12:33] » Uh yeah, it's Zachary. Ballard
[1:12:36] parks.gov.
[1:12:37] Yep. and we we have marked both sides of
[1:12:41] of the tree on the trail.
[1:12:44] » All right, great. Thank you.
[1:12:46] » Thanks, Zach. Thanks, Brian. You've done
[1:12:48] a good job, everyone, at sort of
[1:12:50] naturally transitioning. I think we've
[1:12:52] covered
[1:12:54] all of the sort of trails questions. So,
[1:12:56] I want to get us back to a few
[1:12:58] stewardship comments. Um, Kobe writes,
[1:13:01] "I really appreciate the scientific
[1:13:02] assessments and the work the team has
[1:13:04] done."
[1:13:05] Uh, we've got another good comment from
[1:13:08] I think we've got a couple Lindsies on
[1:13:10] the call, but uh, one of our Lindsay has
[1:13:12] joined us. So excited about the research
[1:13:14] regarding amphibians and vernal pools. I
[1:13:16] hope the parking area can have some
[1:13:17] education about vernal pools and
[1:13:19] importance and signs. Walking the closed
[1:13:22] trails, reminding folks of the
[1:13:24] importance. I think James, you spoke to,
[1:13:26] you know, your own enthusiasm for um,
[1:13:29] educational signage and interpretation.
[1:13:31] So, great comment there. Um, one of the
[1:13:35] questions that was uh earlier is do the
[1:13:40] ecological findings affect the
[1:13:42] designation as a recreation area? For
[1:13:44] example, will it become a wildlife
[1:13:46] management area? I don't know if Elena
[1:13:49] or Charlie, um, you want to take that
[1:13:51] on.
[1:13:56] Brad, you might have to help me out on
[1:13:58] this one. Um, I believe the wildlife
[1:14:02] management area, that's a a DEC specific
[1:14:05] agency. I don't believe we have that
[1:14:08] within this agency. Um, so that's my
[1:14:11] understanding is is that's not going to
[1:14:13] change. It's still going to be a
[1:14:14] recreation area.
[1:14:16] » I think that's correct. That's correct,
[1:14:18] Elena. Uh, WAS are are a DEC construct
[1:14:22] designation. Uh, state parks does not
[1:14:24] have similar. So, uh, recreational
[1:14:27] activities. Uh, this is a recreation
[1:14:30] area. Yep.
[1:14:34] » Yeah. Lindsay, the only thing that I can
[1:14:35] think or sorry, Elena, um, the only
[1:14:37] thing that I can, um, we have park
[1:14:40] preserves. Um, and
[1:14:44] this is not a designated park preserve.
[1:14:46] it could potentially receive that
[1:14:49] designation in the future based on, you
[1:14:51] know, the ecological findings that we've
[1:14:53] had, but that's not part of this
[1:14:55] planning exercise
[1:14:56] um at this time. But yeah, WMA is a is a
[1:15:01] DEC designation. Um parks, we generally
[1:15:04] have uh you know less designations than
[1:15:07] DEC does.
[1:15:11] » All right.
[1:15:13] Um, another comment that has popped up a
[1:15:16] couple of times in our chat is what is
[1:15:19] the future of hunting at the site? Will
[1:15:23] it be an allowable use? Will be banned?
[1:15:29] » Uh, there'll be no change in in the the
[1:15:32] hunting activities in the at the at the
[1:15:35] property.
[1:15:41] All right, let's see. Um, skimming
[1:15:45] through my Oh, we've got some other
[1:15:48] comments in the chat. Stina asks, "Zack,
[1:15:52] how are the differences in summer versus
[1:15:54] winter usage of trails considered? And
[1:15:56] was the groomability of the new loops
[1:15:58] for skiing considered? There are places
[1:16:00] where it seems that the single track has
[1:16:02] been retained instead of the wider
[1:16:04] trails, making it impossible to groom.
[1:16:09] Yeah, it was a consideration. Um, again,
[1:16:12] some of some of the things you're seeing
[1:16:15] may be relative to uh vernal pool
[1:16:18] complexes and so we we altered where the
[1:16:22] trail went. Um,
[1:16:25] we have the vernal pools mapped. Uh,
[1:16:28] they aren't on this public map for for a
[1:16:31] number of reasons.
[1:16:33] um kind of a more broader thing to look
[1:16:37] at outside of the environmental
[1:16:38] concerns. Uh I took the the maps that uh
[1:16:43] showed the the uh yearly cross-country
[1:16:46] ski races. You know, we looked at usage
[1:16:50] um and we looked at maps from from the
[1:16:53] cross country ski groups um that weren't
[1:16:56] our maps that weren't state parks maps.
[1:16:58] They were, you know, the the maps
[1:17:00] generated by the groups. um and just
[1:17:03] made an attempt as much as we could um
[1:17:07] to check all of the boxes that we were
[1:17:09] looking at and also maintain the ski
[1:17:12] ability of these trails and and
[1:17:14] hopefully with that maintain
[1:17:17] um you know the ability to maintain
[1:17:20] those in in the winter. Um
[1:17:23] so so yeah it it was it was considered
[1:17:26] and you know again we were looking at a
[1:17:28] a number of different factors. Um but
[1:17:32] being able to maintain uh as much of the
[1:17:34] the the trails that were used in in ski
[1:17:37] races and and crosscountry skiing was
[1:17:39] part of that.
[1:17:42] And as we move into this winter, I think
[1:17:44] a lot of this is going to be the
[1:17:46] conversation with the with the groups
[1:17:48] and with the groomers and, you know,
[1:17:50] finding how his season went. And if we
[1:17:53] have to, you know, tweak the edges of
[1:17:55] things to make that turn radius better,
[1:17:58] um, you know, we're we're open to, you
[1:18:01] know, making sure that some of these
[1:18:03] things align, uh, as long as we're
[1:18:05] sticking within our general structure of
[1:18:07] the the map we've provided.
[1:18:09] » Yeah. And and one of the goals moving
[1:18:11] forward that is I mean we've we've
[1:18:13] alluded to it is that this is
[1:18:16] the start of a process you know moving
[1:18:20] forward we are going to look more
[1:18:23] comprehensively at trail improvements
[1:18:26] um you know maintenance schedules uh you
[1:18:30] know better signage better wayfinding um
[1:18:33] now that we have kind of agreed on the
[1:18:35] map and consolidated the trail
[1:18:38] internally
[1:18:39] um and we're getting that message out to
[1:18:41] you all. Um we can start to move forward
[1:18:44] with the processes that we we have to do
[1:18:46] on our end to to make these things
[1:18:48] happen. Part of that is is again still
[1:18:50] still taking taking your input and you
[1:18:53] know you know we welcome it to to make
[1:18:55] this this park um usable for everybody.
[1:19:01] » Thanks. All right. Um, couple
[1:19:05] stewardship questions and I see folks as
[1:19:08] we are in the last 10 minutes of our
[1:19:10] time together this evening. For those of
[1:19:12] you who have joined us and have to drop
[1:19:13] off, we greatly appreciate your
[1:19:15] attendance this evening and for those of
[1:19:17] you that have volunteered to get
[1:19:19] involved with trail uh stewardship and
[1:19:22] work. Um, very appreciative of that
[1:19:25] support. So Elena, for you and your
[1:19:28] colleagues, we have a question about
[1:19:32] um I lost Albert has a comment. Um we've
[1:19:35] talked a lot about vernal pools. Um what
[1:19:37] about impacts on bird populations?
[1:19:42] » Yes. Yes. Good question. So there's a
[1:19:46] lot of there's a lot of data in the the
[1:19:49] literature that demonstrates that trails
[1:19:52] do have impacts on bird populations.
[1:19:55] um they tend to have lower density
[1:19:59] populations. Um you know, areas within
[1:20:02] forested habitats that are close to
[1:20:04] trails, they're lessly less densely
[1:20:06] populated. Their reproductive success is
[1:20:10] lower. Um so I I think that's well
[1:20:13] understood. Um, in the scientific
[1:20:15] community for this particular exercise,
[1:20:19] we decided to focus on the Bernal pools
[1:20:22] because of the the statewide
[1:20:24] significance that kind of tipped um
[1:20:27] above, you know, that ecological
[1:20:30] concern, but it's absolutely valid. Um,
[1:20:34] the other thing we had to consider uh
[1:20:36] throughout this process, right, is
[1:20:38] finding that balance. So
[1:20:41] really the only way to try to reduce
[1:20:44] impacts on birds is to eliminate uh
[1:20:46] human presence, right? So we'd have to
[1:20:49] further shrink uh the existing
[1:20:51] opportunity that's at the park. So
[1:20:53] again, it's it's trying to find that
[1:20:55] balance. Um so we didn't specifically
[1:20:58] collect any data on that at the site,
[1:21:00] but I I think it's you know, we have an
[1:21:03] understanding that there is an impact.
[1:21:06] » Thanks, Elena. And another surgical
[1:21:08] question from Craig. Is there any plan
[1:21:11] to treat him woolly adelgid? It seems
[1:21:13] like a lot of hemlock are being
[1:21:15] affected.
[1:21:17] » Yes. Yes. Great question. So we are
[1:21:21] currently conducting treatments at
[1:21:24] hemlock or at her hollister. So the the
[1:21:27] southern ravine that kind of hits you
[1:21:30] can see it in the screen here um on the
[1:21:32] southern part of the property that
[1:21:34] hemlock stand has been treated. So
[1:21:36] typically treatments are on a 5 to
[1:21:39] sevenyear cycle.
[1:21:42] And so that was treated I want to say
[1:21:44] maybe two years ago. So we're going to
[1:21:46] go back in probably another two years to
[1:21:49] re-evaluate. And yet you can see it's
[1:21:51] this dark green polygon at at the south
[1:21:55] end. We decided not to treat the
[1:21:57] hemlocks at the north end because we
[1:22:00] just have these two little pieces,
[1:22:03] right? But this is a consideration now
[1:22:06] because this area is is going to be um
[1:22:09] coming online. We're acquiring a parcel
[1:22:12] in this area. So once we get that
[1:22:14] parcel, we'll assess that hemlock stand
[1:22:16] and see if it's appropriate um for
[1:22:19] treatments. But also to the south,
[1:22:21] particularly along Reynolds go, there's
[1:22:23] a really beautiful hemlock stand. Um
[1:22:27] similarly, like we we are treating that
[1:22:29] that's on our radar. So, every seven
[1:22:32] years we'll we'll cycle back and hit
[1:22:33] those trees again. But, yep, great
[1:22:36] question.
[1:22:40] » Thanks, Elena. Um, doing sort of one
[1:22:43] last spin through our comments here and
[1:22:47] Chris Morris, I think you've been sort
[1:22:48] of keeping an eye out to
[1:22:52] um or other folks, them panelists we
[1:22:54] have this evening if there's anything
[1:22:56] we've overlooked. know there's a lot of
[1:22:59] of comments in here. Um not seeing any
[1:23:02] active questions, but if anyone has had
[1:23:06] their question missed, please type that
[1:23:08] into the chat. We're sort of down to our
[1:23:11] our last five minutes. So, um I don't
[1:23:14] know, Fred, uh James, Kathy, if you want
[1:23:18] to have any closing remarks while people
[1:23:20] might be typing any last thoughts they
[1:23:21] have. Greatly appreciate the discussions
[1:23:24] and the chat and and your thoughts are
[1:23:26] all recorded. um in their chat
[1:23:28] transcript.
[1:23:32] » Yeah. Look, James, I'll kick it to you
[1:23:34] and then I I'd like to have last word if
[1:23:36] you're if everybody's okay with that.
[1:23:40] » Sounds good. Um I just wanted to let
[1:23:41] everyone know. Um if you have any
[1:23:44] questions, please feel uh free to reach
[1:23:46] out. Uh it's James Jeffrey at
[1:23:49] parks.ny.gov
[1:23:50] or call the uh number for Stony Brook
[1:23:52] State Park. Uh, I'll be happy to field
[1:23:55] um questions as they come up and I look
[1:23:57] happy I mean I'm happy to be working
[1:23:58] with everybody and I look forward to you
[1:24:01] know where we're going in the future
[1:24:02] here. So, thank you everybody
[1:24:06] » And James thank you. I mean you you and
[1:24:08] your your staff do a phenomenal job of
[1:24:11] of managing this parcel. Um, and I also
[1:24:15] want to just shout out to Elena and
[1:24:18] Zach. uh the the amount of work, the
[1:24:21] collaboration between sort of your two
[1:24:23] desks was really really strong and I'm
[1:24:27] really proud of the balance uh that
[1:24:30] we've been able to strike with our our
[1:24:32] stewardship responsibilities and
[1:24:34] acknowledging the the incredible value
[1:24:36] we have for this as a recreational area.
[1:24:39] Um it's complicated. It's it's it is not
[1:24:43] simple and just everybody from the park
[1:24:46] side did a a great job. So I did want to
[1:24:49] recognize everyone uh publicly for that
[1:24:51] fine fine work. Um again I I I also want
[1:24:55] to thank our users. You know state parks
[1:24:58] we are here to serve you. Uh we want to
[1:25:01] uh to make sure that we are providing
[1:25:03] the best experience, the safest of
[1:25:05] experiences. Um I'm incredibly proud of
[1:25:09] the the the the state park system. Um, I
[1:25:12] think personally I think it's the best
[1:25:14] park system uh in the United States and
[1:25:17] uh Harriet Hollister is a real real gem
[1:25:20] in that in that system. So um please
[1:25:23] come out and use it. Bring your friends.
[1:25:26] Uh this is yours to celebrate and and
[1:25:28] and use within the the structure that uh
[1:25:32] the problem can can accommodate that
[1:25:34] activity. Um don't hesitate to reach out
[1:25:37] to us uh in the future. you know, we
[1:25:39] look forward to the partnerships and in
[1:25:41] terms of the improvements we can make at
[1:25:43] Harriet Hollister. Uh but really uh
[1:25:46] thank you very very much for your time
[1:25:48] this evening and your passion for this
[1:25:51] property um and to work with us in the
[1:25:53] future. Thank you very much.
[1:26:03] » All right, that concludes our
[1:26:05] presentation and comment period for the
[1:26:08] evening. Thanks everyone for joining us
[1:26:10] with this recording. We in the next
[1:26:12] couple of days are going to be working
[1:26:14] on kind of refining the transcript and
[1:26:16] we will get this uploaded to um our
[1:26:18] YouTube page. So if you have friends
[1:26:22] that were hoping to join us tonight were
[1:26:24] unable to make it, you can point them to
[1:26:26] that recording. Um we will be sending
[1:26:28] out to everyone that registered for this
[1:26:30] meeting the direct link to that uh
[1:26:32] video. So thank you again and have a
[1:26:35] nice evening.