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Um, it's 4 o'clock, so I'd like to ask

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uh that we call the meeting to order.

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» Can we have a roll call, please?

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» Board member Dyer

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» Here.

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» Board member Guiieri

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» Here.

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» Board member Rinstein,

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» Board member Boris,

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» Here.

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» And Chair Croman,

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» Here. Will you rise and join me in the

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pledge of allegiance?

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag

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» Of the United States of America and to

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the republic for which it stands, one

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nation under God, indivisible, with

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liberty and justice for all.

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» Thank you.

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Do we have any public appearances? Any

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um people from the public that wish to

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speak on items not part of the agenda?

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» Do we have anybody online? Shelby. Okay.

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Hearing none, we'll go forward with the

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board member announcements. Any board

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member announcements?

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» Yes, I have.

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» Yes, ma'am.

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» Do you have your thing on?

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» Yes. The middle. I think

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» The I think it's on.

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» It's on. The um next year is the 52nd

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anniversary of Joanne Matthew's book,

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The Fairy Tale Houses of Carmemell, and

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it's a seminal book about Hugh

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Commtock's Fairy Tale Houses. I'd like

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to propose honoring Joanne by a

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proclamation being drafted, given to the

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historic resources board for review, and

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presented by the mayor and the city

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council. I brought a copy of the

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original book. If anyone would like to

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take a look at it after the meeting,

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you're welcome to do that. Joanne

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Matthew is no longer with with us. I

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believe she had a son. I could possibly

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find him. She also had a good friend

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that worked at a shop next to Piccadilly

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Park. And so there would be at least

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since she's not with us, there would be

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at least a couple of people that knew

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her if this were to come about. Um

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that's pretty much my announcement.

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» Thank you.

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Any others?

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Okay, hearing none, we'll move forward

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with the consent agenda.

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Um, we have the regular meeting minutes

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for the August 17th uh meeting as well

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as the special joint session meeting

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minutes from September 9th.

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Any comments on either one of those?

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» I had a question about the September 9th

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meeting.

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Kathy, there was You mentioned this I

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think earlier was the uh my impression

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of the planning commission motion was

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that the the condition of approval was

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more of a not a condition of approval

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but a something for the architects to

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consider which was about the guardrail.

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» If that did not make it into the minutes

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uh Shelby and I will revise them and

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bring it back to you because that is my

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understanding as well

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» That it was not a condition of approval.

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I think it was noted as a one. So that's

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» Okay.

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» Okay. Thank you.

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» We'll bring it back next month with an

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edit because I also understood that

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discussion of the railing wraparound to

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be a suggestion, not a requirement.

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» Great.

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» Good.

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» Thank you.

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» Any other comments on the minutes?

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» So we'll remove the September 9th from

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that and

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» Y. Okay. Do we have a

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» Second?

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» Yep. Okay. There we go. Um, so we have a

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approve a request for approval and a

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second. Can we have a vote, please?

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» I'm so sorry. Who made the initial

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motion? I couldn't.

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» I can make it. I can make it. [laughter]

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Sorry.

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» Thank you. Okay. Roll call vote. Board

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member Dyer.

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» Yes.

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» Board member Guiieri.

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» Yes.

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» Board member Rinstein.

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» Yes.

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» Board member Voris.

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» Yes.

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» And Chair Croman,

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» Yes.

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» Motion passes.

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» Thank you. Okay. Now, we'll go on to

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orders of business with the first order

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of business being an information brief

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on the forge in the forest. Um, I I want

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to stipulate that this is an information

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brief, not a decision brief. And

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Katherine's going to walk us through the

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process. I'm certainly happy to hear any

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thoughts that uh our public has. Um, and

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then the board will take up a discussion

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if they feel they need to. So, can we

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have the staff report, please?

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» Thank you, Chair Croman. Um, I don't

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have a presentation for this item, but

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at the chair's request, I'll simply

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review the project timeline uh from the

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start to where we are now. So, bear with

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me. It is a lengthy one. I'll go back to

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uh January 31st, 2025, which is when the

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project um the property owner submitted

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a historic evaluation and uh paid their

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fees. In February of 2025, staff

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determined that a phase one initial

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historic assessment was not necessary

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due to assoc known associations with

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builder Hugh Commtock and iron worker

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Francis Whitaker. Therefore, rather than

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do the initial historic assessment,

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staff directed Margaret Clovis, a

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qualified professional under contract to

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the city, to go ahead and skip to the

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next step, which is to prepare a phase

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one intensive historic assessment uh in

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the format of a California parks and

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recreation DPR form.

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So, just to clarify, um, with the

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knowledge that there's a potentially a

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significant builder and a significant

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individual, we can just go straight to

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the most intensive evaluation that the

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city performs. In March of 2025, Miss

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Clovis completes that uh intensive

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assessment, the DPR form, which

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concluded that the property is eligible

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under California Register criterion 2

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person because Francis Whitaker uh the

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iron worker contributed to Carmel's

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ongoing artistic community and is

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considered a nationally renowned

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blacksmith. However, because the

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building does not retain substantial

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integrity, it is not eligible for

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listing on the Carmel Historic

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Inventory.

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Uh in in March, staff prepared a

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preliminary determination of

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ineligibility, emails that determination

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to all historic resources board members

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and the property owner and applicant and

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post it online. And at the end of this

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presentation, I'm going to just walk

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everyone through where those online

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postings can be found. In April 2025, um

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the 10 calendar day appeal period closed

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without any appeals being received from

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the public and without any historic

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resources board member calling up the

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determination for further discussion uh

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which the code does describe as an

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option.

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And then uh later that month, April

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22nd, 2025, a design review application

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for the corner market restaurant was

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submitted with fees paid in May. There

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were no proposed changes to the seat

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count, either interior or exterior, nor

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an increase in floor area, or change in

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the use as a full-line restaurant. The

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former planning and building director,

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Anna Janette, categorizes the project as

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a track 1 major design review.

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And then in November 2025, Miss Janette

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approves design the design review

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application. Uh the approval is mailed

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to all property owners within 100 ft of

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the project site as the code requires

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and the approved plans again were posted

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online. No inquiries or appeals were

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received during the 10 calendar day

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appeal period.

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That brings us to 2026. Uh in March,

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board member Katherine Guieri inquires

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via email as to the safeguarding of the

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forge artifacts. Uh later that month,

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planning staff contacted Thomas Hood,

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architect and president of the Carmel

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Heritage Society, regarding the possible

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relocation of the forge and anvil. Mr.

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Hood expressed interest in relocating

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the artifacts to the first Murphy House

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property. Uh planning staff provided

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photos of the artifacts and contact

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information for the corner market

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project team so that uh Mr. Hood could

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arrange a site visit.

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In April, the historic resources board

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briefly discusses the potential artifact

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relocation plan. During the meeting

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in August, uh the building permit was

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issued in accordance with the design

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review plans.

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Uh, in late August, the city building

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official and the building inspector go

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out to conduct an inspection and they

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identify a requirement to replace all

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framing members on on a north wall uh a

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part of the north wall. Due to severe

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rot and termite infestation, the framing

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was beyond repair and the building

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official ordered ordered them to be

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replaced.

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Uh August 26th, Thomas Hood of the

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Heritage Society calls um Justin Cogley

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of the Corner Market Team and emails

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planning staff to relay that the forge,

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which the rough dimensions are uh 60 in

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wide by 64 in deep, 87 in tall, should

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be housed in a heated space, and Mr.

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Hood offers that the two reasons we, the

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Heritage Society, cannot put it in the

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first Murphy house. Size, we have very

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limited space for exhibits and

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gatherings. weight. The floor would not

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carry the weight of this large object.

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We're guessing it could be 600 pounds or

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more. Uh September 1st, planning staff

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meets with the corner market team to

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discuss a forthcoming submitt of a

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building permit revision that would

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reflect that required north wall

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reframing as well as roof repair. The

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corner market team additionally shares

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that the whereabouts of the anvil are

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unknown. The anvil was separate from the

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forge unlike the other ironworking tools

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which are welded onto the forge.

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The wood bar from the former Forge in

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the Forest restaurant is in the

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possession of the former property owner

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as agreed upon with the current owner.

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Uh the former owner does not know the

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whereabouts of the anvil.

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September 9th, uh the corner market team

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emails the city to say, "We would like

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to gift the original forge to the city

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of Carmel by the Sea. As agreed, the

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city would coordinate its removal and

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relocation over the next couple of

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weeks, no later than September 25th, as

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construction continues to move forward.

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Uh September 19th, planning staff

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engages with public works to initiate

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collection of bids to relocate the

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forge. September 14, uh HRB Chair Jordan

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Croman requests staff add this as a

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discussion uh as an order of business to

277
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:09,839
this evening's meeting. September 15th,

278
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:13,040
uh, acting city administrator Brandon

279
00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:15,279
Swanson directs public works to collect

280
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,120
those quotes, which will involve

281
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:19,040
disconnecting the forge gas line. The

282
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,680
forge had been retrofitted as a

283
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,560
fireplace, likely during the 1970s

284
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:26,640
conversion to a restaurant, and move the

285
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:29,680
forge to a temporary storage location

286
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:32,399
yet to be determined. On the 17th, uh,

287
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:34,480
the corner market team confirms via

288
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:37,279
email, "We are very pleased to provide a

289
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,959
plaque inside or outside TBD honoring

290
00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:40,320
the building's history. We will

291
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:42,320
thoughtfully determine the plaque's

292
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,240
wording, size, and design to ensure it

293
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,720
is a tasteful tribute to Carmel by the

294
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,040
Seas heritage.

295
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,959
September 18th, city contracts with a

296
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,160
professional mover at a cost of

297
00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:56,560
approximately $5,000 to safely relocate

298
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,079
the forge to temporary city storage. And

299
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,760
the city will continue to look for

300
00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:01,519
opportunities to safely display the

301
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,519
forge for public education in the

302
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:07,440
future.

303
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:09,040
Uh that concludes my timeline and I'm

304
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,360
happy to answer any questions about the

305
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,480
timeline from the board um or the

306
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,720
public.

307
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,880
» Great. Thank you. Um, does the board

308
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,880
have any [clears throat] questions for

309
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,880
staff?

310
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,360
» I guess I I have one just to start with.

311
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:27,600
The location of the anvil, I mean,

312
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,519
that's a 600lb anvil or whatever it is.

313
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,120
Um, have we have we narrowed down where

314
00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:33,839
we think it is?

315
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,920
» So, uh, the forge and the anvil are two

316
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:39,200
separate items. It's the forge that is

317
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,680
the approximately 600 lb item. the

318
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,800
anvil. Um if if you look in the the

319
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:48,240
photos, it was sitting next to the forge

320
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:50,240
in photos I could find from um Yelp,

321
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,880
Google, the restaurant reviews, those

322
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,959
photos do show an anvil. The current

323
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,480
property owner has relayed that they

324
00:12:54,959 --> 00:12:59,600
never they've never seen it. When they

325
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,760
took ownership, they haven't seen it.

326
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,680
» And I did reach out to the former

327
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,959
property owner who confirms they do not

328
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:08,320
have it.

329
00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:11,320
» Okay. Thank you. Other questions for the

330
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,320
staff?

331
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:17,680
Um I I have one other question then just

332
00:13:14,079 --> 00:13:19,839
um so in the in our reading material um

333
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:24,720
it mentioned that Francis Whitaker was

334
00:13:19,839 --> 00:13:28,200
not on the Carmel historic statement um

335
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,200
why is that?

336
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,519
» Where where in the reading material the

337
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,440
cont historic cont historic context

338
00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:38,639
statement. Yeah. Um

339
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,279
» It was it is it was somewhere.

340
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:39,760
» Yeah.

341
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:40,959
» Um

342
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,480
» I read that too.

343
00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:46,079
» Yeah. I don't have it exactly.

344
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,600
» Um

345
00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:50,160
but I I was just curious just that you

346
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,800
know he's obviously a a very renowned

347
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,680
blacksmith um you know contribute a lot

348
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:59,279
to Carmel um in his own right. And I was

349
00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,560
just wondering why he wasn't on there.

350
00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:03,120
Shoot.

351
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:05,279
» I will certainly do a search to see if

352
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,959
Francis would occur. is in the context

353
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:08,880
statement or not and we have a you know

354
00:14:06,959 --> 00:14:11,199
a running list of edits when the

355
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,959
document will next be updated and if he

356
00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:15,959
is not in there he will be added.

357
00:14:12,959 --> 00:14:15,959
» Mhm.

358
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:22,000
» Uh yeah it's on page five of 11. Um it

359
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,000
says

360
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,680
uh Francis Whitaker is Whitaker Whitaker

361
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,120
is not included in Carmel's historic

362
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,560
context statement. However, the context

363
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,560
statement explains that exclusion from

364
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,040
the historic context statement does not

365
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:38,800
preclude importance to car Carmel's

366
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,519
history referencing page 186.

367
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,160
» That's correct.

368
00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:41,680
» Okay.

369
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,040
» And so the consultant did, you know,

370
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,519
even though he is not listed in the

371
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,760
context statement, she did identify him

372
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:49,519
as a very significant individual.

373
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,720
» Yeah. I think that would be a person

374
00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:54,639
though that we would want to nominate

375
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:57,760
onto that statement, right? Yeah. Okay.

376
00:14:54,639 --> 00:15:00,399
Any other thoughts?

377
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,480
Okay. Um, we will go ahead and open up

378
00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:06,160
for public discussion. Uh, any members

379
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,079
of the public wish to comment on this

380
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,240
situation, please come forward, state

381
00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:11,240
your name.

382
00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:20,560
» Nancy Tumi, resident. Thank you for what

383
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,240
you're doing. Um, I did send a letter in

384
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,800
to you, which you've all seen, so I

385
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:29,440
won't repeat what was in there. I guess

386
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:33,120
my um you know personal concern is that

387
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:38,160
the the exterior elements of this

388
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:40,800
property be as uh maintained as best as

389
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:44,000
possible as this continues to go through

390
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:47,040
whatever its logical life cycle is to

391
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,440
get it to current and functioning mode.

392
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,839
Um you know as I had mentioned we've

393
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,959
been you know dined there [snorts]

394
00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:59,199
times over the years and um that very

395
00:15:54,959 --> 00:16:02,240
rustic nature of that venue is critical

396
00:15:59,199 --> 00:16:05,279
to maintain from just a general public

397
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:08,079
uh perspective and again respecting the

398
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,759
fact that um where deterioration has

399
00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:12,079
occurred you've got to do some

400
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:14,399
refreshment of of [clears throat] uh to

401
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:16,160
make things stable and safe and uh

402
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:19,199
following all the appropriate uh

403
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:21,040
regulations. along those lines. But um I

404
00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:23,920
I'm just concerned that the path that

405
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,959
this is on right now will have a very

406
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:30,880
bright and sparkling uh clean and crisp

407
00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:34,320
and new feel when rustic and high

408
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:37,440
character is more in tune to what a lot

409
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,240
of uh us as pure patrons of that

410
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:43,279
location would look forward to seeing

411
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,440
maintained. So, a casual observation,

412
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:48,000
not historically relevant, maybe not

413
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,759
process relevant, but uh nonetheless

414
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,759
just reflects an opinion that many

415
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:53,120
people have. Thank [snorts] you very

416
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:55,440
much for your consideration.

417
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,199
» Thank you, ma'am.

418
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,846
Other members of the public wish to

419
00:16:57,199 --> 00:17:01,866
comment.

420
00:16:59,846 --> 00:17:01,866
[clears throat]

421
00:17:02,466 --> 00:17:04,486
[snorts]

422
00:17:06,396 --> 00:17:11,039
[clears throat]

423
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:14,799
Excuse me. I'm Neil Cruz. I want to uh

424
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:16,559
thank the chairman Jordan for realizing

425
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:18,000
what was going on and trying to bring

426
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:21,439
attention to it. I really appreciate

427
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,760
that. Julie went did a amazing amount of

428
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:26,959
work on this. So many people actually

429
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,640
have helped. Katherine Wallace and

430
00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:30,559
Carol Hall did a lot of work on this. So

431
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,080
I just want to thank everybody that has

432
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:35,280
participated this and I know I've left

433
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,720
out some names. Um I want to thinking

434
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,559
about what to contribute. Well, I was

435
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,160
the designer of Forging the Forest

436
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:42,400
Gumble Store for 10 years, and I worked

437
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,280
directly with Dan Glosser. We turned it

438
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:48,400
into what it finally became. We married

439
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,799
the two parcels together. It was a 5,000

440
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,440
uh square foot parcel that is now a

441
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:54,960
10,000t parcel. We married it with the

442
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:59,280
property below. I believe in one of

443
00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:01,919
those offices uh we may have had u the

444
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,760
Coast Weekly, you know, is had a small

445
00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:06,480
office down there. But anyway, he

446
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,880
married those two sites together. Uh, it

447
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,480
started when I got a call from a guy by

448
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,760
the name of Dan Glosser and he says, 'I

449
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,919
was told I should talk to you about

450
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,600
doing some design work at the forge and

451
00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:17,600
he says, 'I'm bringing five designers

452
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,360
in. I'm going to give you each an area

453
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,960
to do a design and then I'm going to

454
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:24,559
pick one of you to be the designer for

455
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:27,039
the project. He picked me and that began

456
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:28,799
I don't know if it was 10 or 12 years.

457
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:30,960
But to give you some idea, at one point

458
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:32,160
Brian Rose said to Dan and I, because we

459
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,240
were going into the planning commission,

460
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,320
it was every, you know, almost every

461
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,000
meeting, Dan had something else he

462
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,600
wanted to do. As soon as we finished a

463
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,799
commission meeting, he was with me, "No,

464
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,400
no, we're going to do this, this, and

465
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:46,160
that. Write that up for me by tomorrow.

466
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,760
I want to see that tomorrow." And uh,

467
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,520
Brian Rose said to us one day, he said,

468
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,200
"Neil, do you realize that your file is

469
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,919
now bigger than the entire Carmel

470
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,840
Plaza?" He said, "That's how much work

471
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:57,919
you guys have done on this thing." This

472
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,679
was Dan's love. Dan was called Dan the

473
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:02,400
Ride Man. His father was best friends

474
00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:05,440
with Walt Disney. And Dan knew all of

475
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:08,000
the designers in the world of theme

476
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,360
centers. Okay? And his friends were

477
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,080
people that designed theme centers

478
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:14,160
around the world. And so he started

479
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,799
inviting them to his house which was in

480
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,799
in Caramel Woods area. And he would say,

481
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:20,080
"Neil, I want you to take these guys,

482
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:24,559
show them where we want to work, and and

483
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:26,720
and put them to work." And so, uh, I

484
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:28,960
did. Only the interesting thing about it

485
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,280
was they they just had pads of paper and

486
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,240
pencil and they just went to work like

487
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,080
this. And in in seconds, they had

488
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,960
complete designs. They had pictures.

489
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,720
They had So, the uh the designer uh the

490
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,760
the number one designer, the Frontier

491
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,320
Village did the interior of the General

492
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,640
Store uh which was the two-story

493
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,880
building behind the forge, which also

494
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,240
had a kitchen and a dining room in it at

495
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,280
the time.

496
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,280
Uh Dan had made very good friends with

497
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,840
many designers in Germany and so he

498
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,000
asked them to do special woodwork for

499
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,600
this was mostly for the lower property.

500
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,760
A lot of the woodwork that you see on

501
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,840
that actually came from Germany. The

502
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,679
plans came in German. I had learned some

503
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,760
German. So Dan asked me to translate the

504
00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:13,600
plans and then it was my job to turn

505
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:18,720
this over to the contractor and build

506
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:21,679
it. Uh Dan, this was Dan's love. He

507
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:24,240
absolutely this meant everything to him.

508
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:25,760
uh he was not happy with what happened

509
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,360
in in the years that followed, but I

510
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,240
said, you know, that's that's the way it

511
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,760
goes. But uh you guys, there are so many

512
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,280
stories. I there were so many famous

513
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,080
people that had to come here. So many

514
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:39,440
people that got married here or they,

515
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,600
you know, they pitched their proposal to

516
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,440
their mate at the forge. They had to do

517
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:47,440
it because this was the most magical

518
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:49,360
place in the city. Uh, so now all of

519
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,120
that and I I'm sorry I was out of the

520
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:54,240
loop so long and thank you to Julie Went

521
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:56,480
for bringing it to our awareness and uh

522
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,640
when I first saw a friend of mine took

523
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,280
photographs of it after it had been

524
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:04,000
changed and I went into a pretty bad

525
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,600
funk. I was depressed for a while. Dan

526
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,480
and I both got depressed when the

527
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:11,840
general store was removed. But uh this

528
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:14,159
really hit me hard and I just I just

529
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,320
wanted to say something about what a

530
00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:18,720
glorious and incredible and magical

531
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,200
place this was. Perhaps one of the most

532
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,039
magical places in all of Carmel history.

533
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,039
Dan would send me out. He'd say, "Neil,

534
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:26,880
I Francis Whitaker is going to he's

535
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:28,799
going to give a talk in Carmel. You get

536
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,640
over there and here's what I want from

537
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:32,640
him. I want this story and that story

538
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,159
and I want some paperwork." So Francis

539
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,440
was giving us stuff to put up at the

540
00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:39,039
forge. Uh, one morning Dan calls me up

541
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,400
early and says, "We're going to San Juan

542
00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:42,159
Batista." And I said, "What the hell

543
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,480
for?" And he said, "You'll know. Just

544
00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:45,919
get ready. Get dressed." And we drove to

545
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,600
San Juan Batista. We went to all the

546
00:21:45,919 --> 00:21:50,559
flea markets and we were picking out old

547
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,280
horseshoes and old metal and old uh

548
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:55,200
rusty pliers and everything that we

549
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,120
could get. And I finally said, "What is

550
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,159
this for, Dan?" And he says, "We're

551
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,679
going to weld it against the anvil in in

552
00:22:00,159 --> 00:22:03,919
the store and we're going to make a

553
00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:06,240
frame around." So all of that metal work

554
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:09,280
that you see that was welded onto the

555
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:15,480
hearth uh we did because Dan that was

556
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:15,480
Dan's idea to do it. So I'm

557
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,720
I don't I don't know where to go from

558
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,640
here. Is it is it too late? I I I want

559
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,120
to say I understand the problems with

560
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,640
code when you have ADA. You know you're

561
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,679
not going to get around that. But I will

562
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,600
tell you this. Tim did Tim

563
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:32,720
loved Carmel. He loved the old buildings

564
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,120
in here. And we had many a negotiation,

565
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,880
you know, uh, well, Neil, if we put a

566
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,960
5-ft circle in this bathroom, the

567
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,480
bathroom's toast, right? And I don't

568
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,080
want to see the bathrooms go. So, let's

569
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,679
let's work this out. How can you make

570
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,240
this door wider? Can you make this

571
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:48,320
opening bigger? And so Tim worked with

572
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,400
us on everything to get as close to ADA

573
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,919
as we could, but he had the power at

574
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,520
that time to say, "I'm not going to

575
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:55,520
force the whole thing on you."

576
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,960
Inspectors today do not. So, I don't

577
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,480
want that laid on on the current

578
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,880
inspection group. they would never get

579
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:04,080
away with what Tim did. But Tim saved

580
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,400
Carmel to a great extent. So the only

581
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,799
thing that um

582
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,720
I find really kind of Oh, by the way, we

583
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:14,000
have new information that was just given

584
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:17,360
to us 5 minutes before the meeting uh in

585
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,960
a phone call. And uh I don't know if the

586
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,200
information is solid enough for me to

587
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,360
say in this meeting, but we have not

588
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,200
been informed of everything. And this

589
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,600
information comes from the Propheta

590
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,520
family. We did not have time to get it

591
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,120
together for this meeting, but I def it

592
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,960
it is going to make a difference in the

593
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,200
way people see what happened over this

594
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,440
project. So I would like to get that

595
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,200
together and submit this to the HRB

596
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,240
perhaps in written form if that's the

597
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,799
way to do it because we just don't have

598
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,600
it right now. But just to give you an

599
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:49,679
idea and this may or may not be true.

600
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,320
What we have heard is that Espironza

601
00:23:49,679 --> 00:23:55,280
retained the ownership of the name forge

602
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:58,080
in the forest and it has always been

603
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,000
under the ownership of Espironza. We did

604
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,679
not know this or hear this. There's

605
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,760
several other things uh that are

606
00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:05,280
connected to that. So I don't want to

607
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,720
get into those without knowing exactly

608
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,280
what they are, but we'll we'll get this

609
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,200
to you guys in a letter. Okay. Thank you

610
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,679
very much for your time. And if there is

611
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,600
any way for any of the the parts, the

612
00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:18,000
pieces, you know, we can't find the

613
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,919
anvil.

614
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,440
Boy, somebody really did care about our

615
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:23,279
history, didn't they? We've heard that

616
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,960
it may be worth a lot of money. Maybe

617
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:28,880
they just saw it as a good way to get

618
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:32,080
rich quick. Wow. Really hurts you guys.

619
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,320
It I think more and more the oldtime

620
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,240
residents of Caramel are just feeling

621
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,880
they don't matter. You know, they're not

622
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,480
heard. But I did feel that you you did,

623
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,080
sir. And I want to thank you for that

624
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,080
and everybody else who helped with this.

625
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,212
Thank you very much.

626
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,232
» Thank you very much.

627
00:24:46,212 --> 00:24:48,232
[clears throat]

628
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,880
» Hello all. Um

629
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,799
well I feel like a Johnny come lately in

630
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,400
all of this and and really became aware

631
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:06,799
of what was going on when uh several

632
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,320
residents started calling me to say have

633
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:10,000
you seen what's happened at the forge?

634
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,440
And you know, you see the bulldozer in

635
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:17,360
there and everything's gone. Um, and and

636
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:21,520
the the restaurant part is in studs and

637
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:23,520
everyone was so alarmed. Um, so then I

638
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,440
started looking at at what was going on

639
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:32,880
and was uh met with Janet Alarmo, the

640
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:34,559
manager um wife of uh Justin Codley and

641
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,640
uh

642
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:39,279
and she, you know, we went back and

643
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,039
found that um Meg Clovis had said uh it

644
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:43,200
was not salvageable, that too much had

645
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:45,440
been done to it, etc.

646
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,159
And um and I get that the building

647
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:51,279
itself was in terrible shape and um that

648
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:53,360
was a problem, but I didn't feel like uh

649
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:56,080
enough weight had been given to Francis

650
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:58,080
Whitaker and the name that he is. And I

651
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:02,000
guess Katherine, you were uh interested

652
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,919
in that as well. Um and the fact that

653
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,080
this was the forge in the forest and

654
00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:08,240
what Janet told me was that that the

655
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,840
former owners asked that they not call

656
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,600
it forge in the forest. Uh but now

657
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,840
that's in question. I'm not sure what

658
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:19,600
happened there, but it is the forge in

659
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:22,799
the forest. And um and when I met with

660
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,600
Chris Mitchell several months before

661
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:27,840
uh and knew that they Esparonza had

662
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,679
bought the property, I said, you know,

663
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,760
he said it's not historic. And I said,

664
00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:34,159
well, you may not call the building

665
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,880
historic, but I said this is a historic

666
00:26:34,159 --> 00:26:39,520
site. This is where Francis Whitaker, a

667
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,159
historic figure, did his work. And this

668
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:45,600
is where he created a lot of the work

669
00:26:42,159 --> 00:26:48,880
that goes on that that's on buildings in

670
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,400
Carmeill by the Sea. So, uh I said that

671
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,159
that's something that really has to be

672
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,400
protected. In my meeting with uh Janet,

673
00:26:54,159 --> 00:26:59,840
I found out that they had no plans to

674
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,840
keep the forge at the unit at the place

675
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:06,159
there. I asked about the back of the uh

676
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,159
bar as well, which was a lovely wooden

677
00:27:06,159 --> 00:27:10,640
piece. I don't know if you remember. Uh

678
00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:12,159
that was taken by the former owners. Uh

679
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,080
because

680
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:17,120
they the new owners said, "You can take

681
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,840
whatever you want, basically." So, they

682
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:21,440
took it. Uh and I said, "Well, what's

683
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,120
happened with the tools and the anvil?"

684
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,039
I didn't realize the anvil was missing

685
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,279
at that point. I'm not sure Janet knew

686
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:29,840
that the anvil was missing. And she

687
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:33,440
said, "Well, we don't want it." She

688
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:36,880
said, 'It doesn't go with our decor.

689
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:39,520
It's going to be light, she said. So,

690
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,240
uh, at that point, I became somewhat

691
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:46,320
alarmed what would happen to the forge.

692
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:49,679
And so, I talked to Thomas Hood and, uh,

693
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:52,080
uh, Katherine and a number of people.

694
00:27:49,679 --> 00:27:55,279
Uh, I even asked Dale if he would build

695
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,279
something to put the forge in like at

696
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,840
the back patio of of the Heritage

697
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:02,960
Society or something like that or in in

698
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,960
the park, you know, there. Um, and I

699
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:09,039
guess Dale had actually asked if the

700
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:12,640
Carmel Heritage uh no Carmel uh what is

701
00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:14,640
it the uh Hienda Carmel in Carmel Valley

702
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,399
would take it. And that made me upset

703
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,840
because I thought that's out of Carmel,

704
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:20,320
you know, that I'd rather have it there

705
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,640
than no no place. But it's it's out of

706
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,640
Caramel. I think it should be in Carmel.

707
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,240
So, uh, and I had suggested maybe

708
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Flanders Mansion, you know, could we

709
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:33,039
make that into a Carmel museum? Um, as a

710
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,880
as another idea that I mean, there must

711
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:38,320
be some place we can put it in Carmel.

712
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,480
So, the city is storing it on a

713
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,120
temporary basis, I think, right across

714
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:47,279
the street in those steel, you know,

715
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:50,240
those parts in the Vista Lobos area. Um

716
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:53,120
but but I sure hope we can find some

717
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,360
place for it if so if we can't have it

718
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:59,279
at the forge. And so there were three

719
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,880
things I asked Janet for. One was uh

720
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:02,559
when you call it corner market or

721
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,480
whatever you want to call it. I mean we

722
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:06,080
already have two corner markets and it's

723
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,720
not really a market. It's a restaurant

724
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:12,320
but anyway uh whatever they want to call

725
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,399
it to put it underneath in smaller print

726
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,039
at the Village Forge because that's

727
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:21,039
where it is. It's at the Village Forge.

728
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:23,840
Um, she did not commit to that. Uh, I

729
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:27,039
asked them to at least put a plaque up

730
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:29,279
within view of the public [laughter]

731
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:32,080
that explains that this was the village

732
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:34,880
forge and the Francis Whitaker and the

733
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,360
dates. And I thought HRB could probably

734
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,120
help them with that. The wording on that

735
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:45,600
plaque. She agreed to that. Um, I asked

736
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:48,000
that they keep the forge at the site and

737
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:51,520
she did not agree with that and that was

738
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:55,039
a stronger no. I suggested that possibly

739
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:59,520
right inside, you know, where the u

740
00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:03,840
uh onipro street where the um

741
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:06,640
garage is, the garage uh doors that they

742
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,880
make that folding out like barn doors

743
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,880
and put it right in there. Thomas Hood

744
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,840
thought it would take about a 3x5 foot

745
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,840
space, which isn't much um for the

746
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,919
forge, and that could be kind of

747
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,520
separate from the from the restaurant

748
00:30:17,919 --> 00:30:21,360
essentially. I guess there's some

749
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,960
electrical equipment in there, so I

750
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,039
don't know. But she said, "Well, we've

751
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,720
already made our plans and we have our

752
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:30,159
where we're putting our walls and so

753
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,080
forth." Um, and anyway, that would be

754
00:30:30,159 --> 00:30:33,279
perfect because then it could be closed

755
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,200
up when the restaurant was closed,

756
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,039
opened up when the restaurant was open,

757
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,399
and people even right on the street

758
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,080
could see it. And if there was a plaque

759
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:41,919
there to explain what it was and it was

760
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,320
Francis Whitaker, I think that would be

761
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:46,880
ideal. But I haven't gotten too far with

762
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,559
that idea, but I'll keep pushing.

763
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,320
Um,

764
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:55,520
so I I think it's uh I think there were

765
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,600
a number of circumstances that happened

766
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,120
to fall together one after another after

767
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,520
another that created this problem. And I

768
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,159
think it's really a shame that we didn't

769
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,720
uh address this initially and find out

770
00:31:06,159 --> 00:31:11,600
what we really needed to do to save this

771
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,240
in one form or another. Um the new

772
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,480
owners, yes, they got permission to do

773
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,960
whatever they wanted, so we can't fault

774
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,600
them. Uh they can do whatever they want.

775
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,720
But um but this was this was a really

776
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,679
important place in Carmel and it had the

777
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,600
feel of Carmel and it was wonderful. And

778
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:31,840
uh there are a lot of people who are not

779
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,919
here today that were very upset about

780
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,360
it. They hate coming to meetings. You

781
00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:39,519
know how that goes. So uh anyway, I

782
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,799
guess I hope that you can carry forward

783
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:44,880
with helping this process be the best

784
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,559
one it can be given where we stand at

785
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,799
this point. Thank you.

786
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:49,799
» Thank you.

787
00:31:50,002 --> 00:31:52,022
[clears throat]

788
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,399
Good afternoon, Chair Croman, members of

789
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:06,880
the HRB. My name is Cindy Lloyd. In

790
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:08,799
preface, I will say Francis Whitaker was

791
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,559
a family friend. I knew him. I used to

792
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:13,200
go to the forge and watch him fashion

793
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:15,440
things and out of metal with his hammer.

794
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,039
And the thing I remember most about him

795
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:21,200
was his hat. It was a little very short

796
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,880
little black hat with a little brim. And

797
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,717
when I saw photos of him recently, I

798
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,279
said, "Yeah, that's that." Well, anyway,

799
00:32:24,717 --> 00:32:28,559
[clears throat]

800
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:30,880
um I have a request. May I indulge in

801
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:33,440
your generosity by granting me a bit

802
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,919
more time to share my comments and read

803
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,559
excerpts from Julie Went's letter as she

804
00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:41,039
is out of the country? If so, I shall

805
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:45,760
start with the front page story from the

806
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:48,559
October 29, 1999 issue of the Pine Cone.

807
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:52,200
Thank you.

808
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:52,200
And it is this

809
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:04,919
if you can see it.

810
00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:08,880
» I'm not sure what you're showing us.

811
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,919
It's a little bit hard to see from here.

812
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,240
» It's probably hard to see from there,

813
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:13,919
but anyway over the forage, right?

814
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:18,679
» Yeah. this picture of Francis at his

815
00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:18,679
anvil and the um

816
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:23,068
now I'll go back to my written statement

817
00:33:21,048 --> 00:33:23,068
[laughter]

818
00:33:23,668 --> 00:33:27,360
[clears throat]

819
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,720
below a photo of Francis Whitaker is the

820
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:33,720
headline iron yielded to powerful man's

821
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,720
touch.

822
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,360
He had died just days before, reportedly

823
00:33:36,768 --> 00:33:41,360
[clears throat]

824
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:43,919
with his hammer beside him. In 1922, at

825
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,919
the age of 15, Francis Whitaker told his

826
00:33:43,919 --> 00:33:49,679
father that he wanted to end his formal

827
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:52,159
education and start working. Quote, "I

828
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:54,480
had always been big for my age and had

829
00:33:52,159 --> 00:33:56,799
always enjoyed working with my hands,

830
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,880
and even though I was young, I could fix

831
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:01,440
things, make things, and enjoyed drawing

832
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,840
and mechanics." End quote. Francis spent

833
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,640
a year working with Samuel Yelen in his

834
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:09,280
Philadelphia blacksmith shop before

835
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:12,399
traveling to Germany to work with Julius

836
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,359
Shramm in Berlin. Both eminent

837
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:19,520
decorative blacksmiths influence

838
00:34:15,359 --> 00:34:23,280
Francis's professional life. In 1926, at

839
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:26,079
age 18, his father gave him $35 and a

840
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,879
one-way train ticket to California to

841
00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:30,879
find his fortune. Visiting a friend in

842
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:33,839
Carmel, he knew he'd arrived in a

843
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:36,079
special place. Looking for a job, he was

844
00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:39,599
advised to see Carmel's master builder,

845
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:41,760
MJ Murphy. Hired, he soon oversaw work

846
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:44,800
in Murphy's iron shop for the next seven

847
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,960
years. His decorative iron work can be

848
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,119
found throughout Carmel. While he

849
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,320
undertook a variety of backs blacksmith

850
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:55,040
jobs, he never shot a horse.

851
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,119
Following the end of World War II,

852
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,920
quote, "Caramel began to suffer from

853
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:01,440
what I called growing pains. Carmemell,

854
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:04,480
one of those incredibly beautiful

855
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,599
places, was about to be invaded by the

856
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,359
outside world." End quote. He and many

857
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:11,839
other residents were becoming worried

858
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:15,200
about the future of the community. Thus,

859
00:35:11,839 --> 00:35:17,760
Francis became involved in politics.

860
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,720
Quote, "Blacksmiths by their very nature

861
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:23,440
are stubborn, independent, fearless,

862
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,839
thick-skinned, bullheaded, determined,

863
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,240
and they don't like to be crowded, so

864
00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:30,800
they make perfect politicians." End

865
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:33,520
quote. Francis served on the city

866
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:36,160
council for 11 years, helping to develop

867
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,240
the first master plan. involved in

868
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,240
conservation activities. He was

869
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:43,040
president of the league preserving Point

870
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:46,800
Lobos for a state park as well as

871
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:49,839
preserving the Carmel River mouth beach.

872
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,480
Quote, I just couldn't stand by and see

873
00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:54,720
development of these beautiful areas to

874
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,599
face the beauty of nature. They should

875
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:59,839
be available to be enjoyed by all, not

876
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,839
just by those who could afford to buy

877
00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:04,079
them." End quote.

878
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:07,040
Following Francis's love for skiing and

879
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:09,280
the beauty of unspoiled aspen, Francis

880
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:13,440
loaded all his blacksmith equipment and

881
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:15,760
moved. Thus ended Francis Whitaker's

882
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,480
37 years

883
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,640
in his forge in the forest, gone, but

884
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:24,640
now forgotten.

885
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:27,680
One of the things I I question

886
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,440
is if Francis took all of his equipment

887
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,760
to Aspen,

888
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:36,720
what is left behind, was it really

889
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,720
Francis's? And um in in this book from

890
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,800
which I quoted, this is a book that

891
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:43,040
Francis wrote

892
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:47,520
and it's really wonderful reading. It's

893
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:49,200
very easy reading. Um he he said that he

894
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,119
hired a man with a truck to take

895
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,880
everything in his blacksmith shop and

896
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:56,079
then he loaded up his own truck and

897
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:58,880
left. So I I really question whether

898
00:36:56,079 --> 00:37:02,880
those things are indeed Francis's, but I

899
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:05,760
don't know. So that ends my my little

900
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,160
story. But from Julie went who was in

901
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,520
Paris and she sent me a text and said,

902
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,280
"Cindy, if you're going to the meeting,

903
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,119
would you mind reading some of my

904
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,640
comments in the record?" And I'm sure

905
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:17,200
you've all read them. So, I just picked

906
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,680
out a few. The Forge in the Forest

907
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:22,160
blacksmith shop began 100 years ago in

908
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,040
Carmel by the Sea, but the city is in

909
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,960
danger of losing this history. My

910
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,680
objective is to bring awareness to the

911
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:32,160
Carmel community and future generations

912
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,560
of residents and visitors of Francis

913
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,320
Whitaker's Forge in the Forest and their

914
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,240
contributions to Carmel's early

915
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,560
beginnings.

916
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:43,119
The forge building itself may not be

917
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,359
historic because of alterations,

918
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:47,839
but there should be an alternate way to

919
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:51,280
recognize this one-of-a-kind historic

920
00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:53,760
contribution to Carmel. Francis Whitaker

921
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:57,359
is eligible for the California Register

922
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,359
under criterion 2 for person.

923
00:37:57,359 --> 00:38:01,920
The original forge building has lost

924
00:37:59,359 --> 00:38:04,240
integrity and cannot be dee deemed

925
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,160
historic. The city should now be

926
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:08,160
considering other means of commemorating

927
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,800
the contribution and historic

928
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:14,160
significance of Francis Whitaker's forge

929
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:16,800
in the forest. A commemorative plaque is

930
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,640
an option with the permission of the new

931
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,280
restaurant operators of the corner

932
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,839
market and Mr. Pastor who is the owner

933
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:27,440
of the property. A commemorative plaque

934
00:38:23,839 --> 00:38:29,520
could be displayed on the site. the HRB,

935
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,240
the city, the owners of the corner

936
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,240
market, and interested Carmel residents

937
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:36,320
could develop what the plaque might look

938
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:39,200
like, as well as the language on the

939
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,599
plaque and possibly a photo of Francis

940
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,920
at work.

941
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:46,320
And this is my last little thing. Now is

942
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,640
the time to honor Francis Whitaker, for

943
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,320
without him, the forge would not have

944
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,280
become significant. Thank you.

945
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,760
» Thank you very much.

946
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,760
» You're very welcome.

947
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,079
Seeing no one else in the room. Shelby,

948
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,272
do we have anyone online?

949
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:06,160
» We do. Yes. Um Ian Martin.

950
00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:10,000
[clears throat]

951
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,599
» Good evening everybody. Um I am Ian

952
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,000
Martin. I'm a former planning

953
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:16,240
commissioner and a resident and u and a

954
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,880
student of Carmel by the seas history.

955
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:21,040
Uh, I want to give Neil Cruz a great

956
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:25,359
deal of credit for the work that he did

957
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,839
to maintain the historical feel of the

958
00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:29,200
Forge in the Forest after it became a

959
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:32,160
restaurant. You know, when you're

960
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,000
sitting there having a drink or a meal,

961
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,440
you had a sense that you were in a place

962
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,760
that had a had a a deep history to it.

963
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:43,359
And I think there's some good news here

964
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,359
in that I don't see

965
00:39:43,359 --> 00:39:48,640
why it's too late, why you could not

966
00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:50,960
return to something in line with what

967
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,320
Neil originally did. In fact, Neil's

968
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,440
right there in the room. Neil could

969
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:59,359
participate in the restoration uh to

970
00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:02,720
bring it back to give the place

971
00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:05,040
uh that to return to that place a sense

972
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:07,280
of the deep history that that property

973
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,599
embodies. And you [clears throat] know,

974
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,440
and I can't think of any reason why they

975
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:14,320
couldn't also call it the forge in the

976
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,640
forest if um you know, everything's a

977
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,560
negotiation. I mean, I you know, why not

978
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,119
try and acquire the name back and call

979
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:25,280
it the Forge in the Forest again? So,

980
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:28,880
you could retain that sense of history

981
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:31,599
um as as the place, you know, as as the

982
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,280
place once was under Neil's creativity

983
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:36,480
and sensitivity to our village's

984
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:38,880
history. So hopefully that could

985
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,800
actually happen. Um, beyond just having

986
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,480
a plaque, which you know, a lot of

987
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,920
people don't read plaques, right? But

988
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,599
when you went to the original Forge of

989
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,520
the Forest restaurant, you had a sense

990
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:48,960
you were sitting there at a historical

991
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,680
place, you understood that there was a

992
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:54,240
backstory there that you were aware of

993
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,359
because they had the forge there in the

994
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:59,359
room. Um, and then also the ambiance of

995
00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:03,040
the place, the rusticity of the place,

996
00:40:59,359 --> 00:41:06,800
all lent a strong reinforcement of the

997
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:09,359
sense of of that history. So, it's not

998
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,440
too late. All those things could come to

999
00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:13,680
pass and Neil could even take the reigns

1000
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,800
and and make it a reality as he once

1001
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:19,040
did. Um, that would be amazing and a and

1002
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,760
a a demonstration of the love for the

1003
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,839
village. Um,

1004
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,160
this also speaks to, you know, I

1005
00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:29,839
appreciate that all the all the the

1006
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:32,800
mechanical factors of notification in

1007
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:34,720
the municipal code were met, I suppose,

1008
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,560
but when you're dealing with something

1009
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:39,680
like this, it really should have come

1010
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,400
before the historic resources board um

1011
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,800
as a matter of default, right? when

1012
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:48,160
you're dealing with something that is so

1013
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:50,079
important um you know as as Francis

1014
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,480
Whitaker and his legacy in the village I

1015
00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:56,160
mean here's a guy who had an obituary in

1016
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:58,319
the New York Times when he died so you

1017
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,800
know we should be defaulting to the

1018
00:41:58,319 --> 00:42:02,480
historic resources board to make sure

1019
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,240
that everybody is aware of what's

1020
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,520
happening when we are dealing with

1021
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:10,480
historic properties or or or history or

1022
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:13,359
or properties that may not technically

1023
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,040
meet the letter of the offer histo but

1024
00:42:13,359 --> 00:42:17,680
there should be [gasps]

1025
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,359
uh a plain in view discussion in front

1026
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,920
of the public about how the city's

1027
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:25,440
arriving at these discussions um just

1028
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:28,240
beyond the perform steps. So anyway in

1029
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:32,000
closing um thank you all for giving this

1030
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:37,720
thing a a proper uh airing and again

1031
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,720
it's not too late. Thank you. Thank you

1032
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,640
Charles.

1033
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,119
I'm mute.

1034
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:08,119
unmute.

1035
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,599
» Charles, if you're muted, uh we cannot

1036
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:20,480
hear you. Please unmute.

1037
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:22,560
» Good afternoon. Um

1038
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:26,800
uh this is uh Chuck Nagarian. I'm a

1039
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:29,359
resident of of Carmel. I really uh

1040
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:34,640
appreciate the hearing today.

1041
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:36,720
Um, I I'm I'm I guess my my

1042
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,240
guess my my main concern here is I'm

1043
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:41,760
baffled

1044
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:43,839
by the over- the-counter process that

1045
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,640
occurred here. I think that is the

1046
00:43:43,839 --> 00:43:50,800
genesis of the problems we have here

1047
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:55,280
today. And um I I was really encouraged

1048
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:58,960
by what uh what Neil presented and uh

1049
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,520
and also what Ian Martin's um

1050
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:05,119
recommendations for for restoration. I

1051
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:08,240
think that's that's the key here. Um

1052
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:12,560
this is this is too important of a site.

1053
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:15,520
And um I'm not sure why the HRB was left

1054
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:18,160
out of this, but I I'm I'm noting that

1055
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,000
the HRB seems to be left out of a lot of

1056
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,920
key things,

1057
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,160
including other other permitting

1058
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,960
processes, and I'm I'm encouraging you

1059
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,480
to be involved as much as you can and

1060
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,119
express

1061
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,960
express your your expertise.

1062
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:37,200
Um, unfortunately, I don't think the

1063
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:39,760
city uh or or concerned residents know

1064
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,920
all the facts. I know I know I don't,

1065
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,880
but I know a lot of questions have been

1066
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:48,560
raised that are a little disconcerting.

1067
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:52,079
Uh, and I urge you, the city, uh, to to

1068
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,760
to sink answers to them. Um, I think

1069
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:57,359
it's really important understand

1070
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:59,040
everything that's been going on. Um, and

1071
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:01,040
and I think the over-the-c counter

1072
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,839
process itself,

1073
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:06,160
uh, you know, facilitated facilitated

1074
00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:07,680
where we are today, uh, which isn't a

1075
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,280
very good place. I think it's somewhat

1076
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:13,760
embarrassing, frankly. And, um, I'm

1077
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,400
sorry that I'm sorry that it happened.

1078
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:20,720
Um, I I think anybody with half a brain

1079
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:24,640
knows and feels the the historicity of

1080
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:28,240
the of the forge in the forest. and um

1081
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:30,640
and and I hope you take uh uh Ian's

1082
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:32,960
recommendation at heart in terms of

1083
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,560
moving in a restoration

1084
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:39,599
manner. I don't think anything but the

1085
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:41,680
name forging the forest will work at

1086
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:45,119
that property. I think everything else

1087
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:47,440
is nonsense. Anyway, thank you for your

1088
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:50,160
time and thank you for for your interest

1089
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:54,760
in looking into this. [clears throat]

1090
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,760
» Thank you very much. Anyone

1091
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:58,640
else?

1092
00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:01,119
» That's everyone.

1093
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,960
» Okay. Any other comments from the

1094
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:07,280
public? [clears throat] Hearing? None.

1095
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:08,480
We'll close it back up and um ask the

1096
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,400
board if they have any comments or

1097
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,119
issues that they'd like to discuss. I

1098
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,800
have a question.

1099
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:14,880
» Yes, ma'am.

1100
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,119
» My question is for Neil. You had

1101
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,440
indicated that at some point you and the

1102
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:21,839
owner had gone shopping for items that

1103
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,000
were welded to the forge. So those

1104
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:25,440
things were not Francis Whitickers. They

1105
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,520
were things that you purchased.

1106
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,960
» You mean the the implements?

1107
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,280
» Can you come to the Yes. microphone,

1108
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,280
please?

1109
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,280
» Sorry.

1110
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,760
» Yes. All All there was really

1111
00:46:34,917 --> 00:46:40,160
[clears throat] was the the hearth which

1112
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,440
the anvil sat on and then the anvil

1113
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,240
itself and the railing around it.

1114
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:49,200
» Okay. Thank you.

1115
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:51,040
» And so uh Dan wanted to it was partly

1116
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,119
for safety reasons. He wanted there to

1117
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,680
be a fire in that, but didn't want kids

1118
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:59,680
or something. So, he thought he would

1119
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:01,839
get all these rusty old metal elements.

1120
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,240
And then he brought in our favorite

1121
00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:05,599
welder and we just spent the day holding

1122
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,440
them and welding them in place.

1123
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:08,480
» Made making it look like it was still in

1124
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:08,960
use.

1125
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,640
» Yeah.

1126
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,720
» But it wasn't Francis Luc.

1127
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,800
» No, most of that stuff we got at flea at

1128
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,160
flea markets at Sanon Batista.

1129
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,040
» Great. Thank you, Neil. Thank you very

1130
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,920
much.

1131
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,440
» Thank you,

1132
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,520
» Neil. Do you mind if I ask a question as

1133
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,000
well? Do you know about the forge being

1134
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,680
relocated within the room?

1135
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,160
» Uh, excuse me. Could you say it one more

1136
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,079
time, Kath?

1137
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,400
» Do you know about the forge's relocation

1138
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:31,760
within the room

1139
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,220
from

1140
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,720
» One more time? I'm sorry because my

1141
00:47:33,220 --> 00:47:37,280
[laughter] hearing is not good.

1142
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:39,359
» Uh, do you have knowledge of the forge

1143
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,359
being relocated from one corner of the

1144
00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:43,119
room to another, like the back of the

1145
00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:46,640
building to the front?

1146
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:48,480
» Uh, no. the the the hearth and the anvil

1147
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,800
was always in that location throughout

1148
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:53,040
the our experience with the project to

1149
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,720
my knowledge. It was always right in

1150
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:59,680
that. I I believe I remember as a young

1151
00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:02,480
child my father would always take me to

1152
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:05,680
watch Francis Whitaker do his metal work

1153
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:08,720
and uh my memory of that is that the uh

1154
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,640
hearth and the anvil were in the place

1155
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:15,119
where it is now or where it just

1156
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:17,520
recently was all that time there was an

1157
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:21,200
earlier forge in the forest. Okay. Which

1158
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:25,200
is down near uh

1159
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:28,760
uh you know the supermarket and sand um

1160
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,760
and uh

1161
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:35,119
just a second here. So uh right next to

1162
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,200
Bruno's market you have the Sandpiper

1163
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:40,000
and you used to be able to look up and

1164
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,480
see the ceiling of the Sandpiper and it

1165
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,119
was dark wood and all this old wood and

1166
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,200
old framing. That was this the the

1167
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:49,760
ceiling of the first forge in the

1168
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,520
forest. And I was informed by a

1169
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,160
historian one day. He sat down with Dan

1170
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,160
and I and he said, "Yeah." He said, "Uh,

1171
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:59,040
so there's the story from Francis that

1172
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:01,520
he was out there and John Steinbeck was

1173
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,440
sitting down getting drunk and Lincoln

1174
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:06,240
Stefins comes by and he says, "Is that

1175
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,960
John?" He says, "Yeah." So he says, "I

1176
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:10,480
got a book he needs to write." Lincoln

1177
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,119
Stephins went over there and sat with

1178
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:16,079
Steinbeck for about an hour. That's how

1179
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:19,079
you got the grapes of wrath in that

1180
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:19,079
conversation.

1181
00:49:22,079 --> 00:49:26,559
» Thanks very much for that.

1182
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:28,319
» Is there anything else?

1183
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:30,160
» Any other comments from the board or any

1184
00:49:28,319 --> 00:49:32,079
thoughts?

1185
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,960
» Well, this is a this is a tough one

1186
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:37,200
really. Um, I also have the feeling like

1187
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:40,400
we're dealing with something similar to

1188
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:44,960
the horses out of the barn, which makes

1189
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:48,319
it very difficult uh to know what the

1190
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:52,240
right the right approach should be.

1191
00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:56,240
Um, I'm reminded of a of a situation uh

1192
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:59,760
in my former city, Capola,

1193
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,000
where um a small cabin that had been

1194
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:05,520
part of the original

1195
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:09,680
um development by the founder of Capola,

1196
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:13,760
a small cabin was found uh at some

1197
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:15,839
distance from city hall and um the

1198
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,800
owners wanted to remove it from the

1199
00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:23,119
property and do something house. And so

1200
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:26,880
that cabin was brought uh down to the

1201
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:29,920
city so that when people walk from the

1202
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,760
parking lot behind city hall, you're

1203
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:36,720
forced to go right in front of the

1204
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:40,319
cabin. And inside it was opened uh with

1205
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:44,640
larger windows. You can't go inside, but

1206
00:50:40,319 --> 00:50:48,559
a a historic display was set up to

1207
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:52,160
resemble the interior of a small

1208
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:54,960
one room house. And in back um they had

1209
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,880
a washroom place where you changed your

1210
00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:00,960
clothes or used the bathroom. It was

1211
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:03,599
just a outouse but a long narrow one. So

1212
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:06,319
people were not only forced to, but they

1213
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:10,000
loved looking in the windows and seeing

1214
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:12,400
what life was like in the 1920s.

1215
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,800
And uh you know, we miss that here in

1216
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,680
Carmel. We're [clears throat] so busy uh

1217
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:22,000
looking at the architectural integrity

1218
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:25,280
and the style, but the history. Uh I I

1219
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:29,920
up the street from the Whitaker Forge

1220
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:33,680
uh just a block half a block away is um

1221
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:37,760
James Weaver Kitchens plumbing shop and

1222
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:40,400
it's part now of a real estate office.

1223
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:44,400
But if you just walk past it and look

1224
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:49,359
inside, you can see the original um form

1225
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:52,319
of the of the u plumbing business. And

1226
00:51:49,359 --> 00:51:55,520
all of these men, the Whitakers, the uh

1227
00:51:52,319 --> 00:51:58,079
K kitchens, the the men that Catelyn who

1228
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,960
was mentioned earlier, they all have a

1229
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:04,319
place in the story. And I took special

1230
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,559
note of what I I think I don't know

1231
00:52:04,319 --> 00:52:09,040
which one of you said that Whitaker I

1232
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:11,920
think maybe you did. Uh

1233
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,000
I it Whitaker was on the council for 11

1234
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:17,280
years. So that counts for a lot. I mean,

1235
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:20,480
he put something of himself into that

1236
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:22,240
position. So all of this makes me think

1237
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,280
we you know we should have thought of

1238
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:30,160
this. I I have the date of a almost a

1239
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:33,680
year ago when the um planning director

1240
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:37,839
um asked you know uh the council not

1241
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:40,000
council the HRB to look at this issue

1242
00:52:37,839 --> 00:52:43,040
and u

1243
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,280
it kind of passed through based on the

1244
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:48,000
fact that its integrity had been

1245
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,160
changed. But what about the site? You

1246
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,240
know, uh that's one of the parts of the

1247
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:55,040
National Register and the California

1248
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:58,800
Register and our own inventory that we

1249
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:01,839
tend to forget that a site is just as

1250
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:04,400
significant. It may not have the all the

1251
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:07,359
uh accutra months or however you say it

1252
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:10,240
of the original, but something important

1253
00:53:07,359 --> 00:53:13,520
happened there. And these places like

1254
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:15,599
the forge are very few and far between.

1255
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,760
And if we only look at the architecture

1256
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:21,280
and say, well, you know, it's been all

1257
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:24,240
changed. That that to me I think we're

1258
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:27,119
leaving something out. So, I I think we

1259
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:29,440
need to do something to show off uh a

1260
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:33,119
man with Whitaker's talents and that we

1261
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:36,160
don't uh we don't we're sending uh the

1262
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:39,920
wrong signal if we don't do something uh

1263
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:42,240
to honor his memory and uh what he

1264
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:45,200
contributed to all the ornamental

1265
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:48,480
railings and uh iron work that we see

1266
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,559
throughout the city. So, I'm glad that a

1267
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,440
plaque is being suggested. I was very

1268
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:56,240
intrigued by Carol's comment about

1269
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,319
opening those doors on the street

1270
00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:02,079
because I could see the little cabin in

1271
00:53:58,319 --> 00:54:05,760
Capola right there as you walked by. You

1272
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:08,160
could have the forge in the tools and a

1273
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,400
photograph of Mr. Whitaker and I think

1274
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:14,240
it would draw people to the corner

1275
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:16,400
market or it wouldn't be an uh anything

1276
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:18,319
wrong with that. So that that's that's

1277
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,960
what my where my thinking is going right

1278
00:54:18,319 --> 00:54:21,960
now. Any

1279
00:54:22,319 --> 00:54:25,319
thoughts?

1280
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,920
» Yeah, I

1281
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:34,079
probably it's a cautionary tale a little

1282
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,160
bit. And it's not just this last um

1283
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:37,599
proposal and building permit that went

1284
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,040
through, but there was a lot of changes

1285
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,480
over time that made it lose its

1286
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:45,119
integrity. I do remember being in town

1287
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:47,760
um when I first came to Carmela and

1288
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:50,079
enjoying the general stores, the

1289
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,800
restaurant, and the beautiful little

1290
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:55,599
courtyard and the the the old bar and

1291
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:59,119
the in in the with the forge and the

1292
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:01,280
anvil all in that that space which was

1293
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:03,520
and having that indooroutdoor connection

1294
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,920
which was really I thought a beautiful

1295
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,359
part of that um

1296
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,839
scheme and restaurant. It made it really

1297
00:55:07,359 --> 00:55:11,359
special. Um,

1298
00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:12,720
and I think there were changes even

1299
00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:14,319
subsequent to that. Like I think you

1300
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:16,559
know one of the things people may not

1301
00:55:14,319 --> 00:55:18,400
understand that is that the historic

1302
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:20,240
resources board doesn't really have

1303
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,319
jurisdiction about the inside of

1304
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:25,119
buildings and I know the bar was removed

1305
00:55:22,319 --> 00:55:28,240
for example that was quite an impressive

1306
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:31,200
piece of it. Um, you know, at this

1307
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:34,880
point, as as you mentioned, that the the

1308
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,960
horses have left the barn and and

1309
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,883
these folks have a have a building

1310
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,720
permit and we're lucky. You know,

1311
00:55:39,883 --> 00:55:44,559
[snorts] Mr. Cogley is a wonderful chef

1312
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:47,599
and I'm sure it's going to be an amazing

1313
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:49,708
restaurant, which we'll all enjoy. Um

1314
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:51,440
but there is this certain lack of

1315
00:55:49,708 --> 00:55:54,160
[clears throat] um consideration to the

1316
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,720
history of the place that

1317
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,400
probably should have been caught before.

1318
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:00,960
Um and I agreed more things should come

1319
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,839
to the HRV especially if there's if

1320
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,520
there's you know I think objectively you

1321
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:10,000
can you know they're sensitive and you

1322
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:13,280
know the town's sensitive about it. Um,

1323
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:16,160
I think the at this point a plaque or

1324
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,720
Carol's idea of a of having an exhibit

1325
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:21,119
behind those doors sounds really lovely.

1326
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:24,160
Um, I think having some marker of what

1327
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:27,359
it what it was in France is a is a is a

1328
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,119
great idea. Um, [clears throat]

1329
00:56:27,359 --> 00:56:32,160
but in general, I think that is a piece

1330
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:34,160
of Carmel. I kind of understand the the

1331
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:36,720
how people feel so strongly about it is

1332
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:41,599
a piece of caramel that's kind of lost

1333
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:44,400
and I think it was lost as a

1334
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:46,079
you know sequentially it wasn't just one

1335
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,839
thing.

1336
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:51,040
» Yeah.

1337
00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:53,920
So I think um you know we've there's a

1338
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:56,000
lot we can take away from this. Um I I

1339
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,599
would hesitate to say that the historic

1340
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:01,599
resources board was not made aware of

1341
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:05,520
this because through due process um the

1342
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:07,200
staff assessed the property and then um

1343
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,040
open it up for public comment and open

1344
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,680
up for HRB comment as they're supposed

1345
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:14,160
to um during that 10day period. And

1346
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,799
unfortunately or fortunately um you know

1347
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,319
there weren't significant issues raised

1348
00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:20,799
at that point. I understand it's a very

1349
00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:24,160
emotional um space for a lot of people,

1350
00:57:20,799 --> 00:57:25,680
but I also understand that um Espironza,

1351
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,359
you know, entered into this project with

1352
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,520
a set of guidelines and rules that they

1353
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:30,880
felt were appropriate. And I think um

1354
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,880
you know, that's been pointed out a

1355
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:35,440
couple times. Um and so they shouldn't

1356
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:39,040
be penalized for that either. So I think

1357
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:40,880
in the future um I think I would just

1358
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,440
urge the public that if you see

1359
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,920
something like this happening that you

1360
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:49,680
really pay attention to the notification

1361
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,200
by the city about um you know your cons

1362
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,960
and and voice your concerns about it. I

1363
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,799
also agree that I think there's certain

1364
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,640
things that don't come to the HRB as a

1365
00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:59,520
formal agenda item that probably should

1366
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,000
and so you know we as a group can talk

1367
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:04,000
about that and and maybe provide some

1368
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,720
additional guidance to the staff on what

1369
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,880
that looks like. Um and I think you know

1370
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,480
the the good news is the organizations

1371
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:13,680
agreed to a plaque which is important

1372
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:16,720
and certainly I I think the HRB and

1373
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:18,880
other members of the uh community are

1374
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,359
happy to help with writing that plaque.

1375
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:24,160
Um, but I think, you know, we're at the

1376
00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:26,240
point where um this process is moving

1377
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,480
and it it's got to keep moving. And I I

1378
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,000
appreciate the staff um walking us

1379
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,200
through the timeline once again. I think

1380
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,680
that was very thorough and I do

1381
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,599
certainly do appreciate um the members

1382
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,839
of the public who spoke and um very

1383
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:40,160
eloquently talked about the issues that

1384
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:43,839
they felt were concerning. So, with

1385
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,200
that, I'd ask if there's any Yes, ma'am.

1386
00:58:43,839 --> 00:58:47,760
» I don't know how many people have had

1387
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,760
experience ordering plaques, but I have.

1388
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,200
And Possibly

1389
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,520
not all of you know that you can

1390
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,680
actually have a photograph as part of

1391
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,760
the plaque. So it wouldn't have be a

1392
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,599
plaque for him with a just a picture of

1393
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:02,240
him next to it. It could be all be

1394
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:04,160
incorporated in that.

1395
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:07,680
» Yeah, I think there's some good options.

1396
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:09,440
Any other comments from the board?

1397
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:13,160
Okay, hearing none, we will move on to

1398
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,160
the next consent item

1399
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:19,839
public hearing. Yeah, sorry. To the

1400
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:22,160
public hearing um which is DR 25228 the

1401
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:24,960
Cypress in consideration of a

1402
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,240
determination of consistency with the

1403
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,799
secretary of the interior standards for

1404
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:30,799
a track one design review for exterior

1405
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:33,119
alterations and site improvements at the

1406
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:35,280
historic LA Riviera Hotel located in the

1407
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:39,240
northeast section northeast corner of

1408
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,240
Lincoln Street and 7th Avenue.

1409
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,000
Thank you.

1410
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:58,240
» Thank you, [snorts] chair. Uh, the

1411
00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:00,880
Cypress in originally called um La La

1412
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:03,440
Libera was designed by Blaine and Olsen

1413
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:06,799
and was constructed in 1929 at the

1414
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:08,480
northeast corner of Lincoln and 7th.

1415
01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:10,319
to anymore.

1416
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,880
» Blaine and Olsen had studied

1417
01:00:10,319 --> 01:00:15,200
Mediterranean architecture in Spain and

1418
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,599
incorporated a clay tile roof, a

1419
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,839
three-story Moorish tower with a zigurat

1420
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:22,839
top and a courtyard into their hotel

1421
01:00:19,839 --> 01:00:22,839
design.

1422
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:29,839
In 1949, the original 1929 building was

1423
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:32,240
expanded with an addition by significant

1424
01:00:29,839 --> 01:00:33,920
architect Gardner Daly. The addition is

1425
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,000
located at the southwest corner of the

1426
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,960
property and is included in the period

1427
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,559
of significance which is 1929 through

1428
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,319
1949.

1429
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:46,680
The property has been called the Cypress

1430
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:46,680
in since circa 1980.

1431
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,480
In 2002 2003 the hotel was again

1432
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:54,720
expanded to the north on a separate lot.

1433
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:56,880
The current project is limited to the

1434
01:00:54,720 --> 01:01:01,359
original property not the north annex

1435
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:03,839
which you see circled in red there.

1436
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:06,400
Long recognized as a historic property,

1437
01:01:03,839 --> 01:01:09,200
the Cypress Inn is listed on the city's

1438
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:13,720
uh historic inventory and register and

1439
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,720
has an active Mills Act contract.

1440
01:01:13,839 --> 01:01:17,599
The building has numerous identified

1441
01:01:15,839 --> 01:01:20,000
character-defining features, including

1442
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:22,079
the mission tile roof, the 7th Avenue

1443
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,799
courtyard with the hexagonal tiles and

1444
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:26,319
arcade, and steel casement windows, all

1445
01:01:24,799 --> 01:01:29,040
of which are included in the current

1446
01:01:26,319 --> 01:01:32,640
project scope of work slated for either

1447
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,880
repair or replacement.

1448
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,200
So, the current project proposes roof

1449
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:39,760
repairs, window replacements, the

1450
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,839
installation of a courtyard ADA ramp,

1451
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:45,760
courtyard tile replacements, and new

1452
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:48,240
courtyard stair tiles.

1453
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:50,480
The applicant proposes to replace 70

1454
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,079
non-original steel windows, which

1455
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,319
according to the window survey are

1456
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:55,760
either rusted, difficult, or unsafe to

1457
01:01:54,319 --> 01:01:58,160
operate, and they permit water

1458
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:00,000
intrusion. The proposed new windows

1459
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,920
which will be installed within existing

1460
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,000
openings with no change to opening

1461
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,400
dimensions will be divided light

1462
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:09,400
casement steel windows by Jensen

1463
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,400
Janisole.

1464
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:15,599
So the applicant proposes to remove the

1465
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,599
existing mission tile roof and to wash,

1466
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:19,599
repair and store the tiles during the

1467
01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:21,359
period of time in which any areas of dry

1468
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:23,920
rot will be repaired and a new

1469
01:02:21,359 --> 01:02:26,400
waterproof underllayment installed. The

1470
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:28,400
old tiles will then be reinstalled. If

1471
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,559
any broken tiles need to be replaced on

1472
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,319
a street facing elevation, old tiles

1473
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:35,040
will be salvaged from a less visible

1474
01:02:32,319 --> 01:02:37,280
area of the roof and new Redland clay

1475
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:40,559
tile will be used to fill in the salvage

1476
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:42,480
tile spots.

1477
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:44,640
The south courtyard features a

1478
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:47,440
distinctive arcade with mission tiles

1479
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:49,119
laid directly on tree branches. A

1480
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,880
structural engineer completed an

1481
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:52,559
evaluation and did not recommend a

1482
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,119
waterproof underllayment for this

1483
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:56,880
feature due to aesthetic impacts. The

1484
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:58,960
structural engineer concluded that the

1485
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:03,280
tree limbs are sound and recommends

1486
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:05,040
reinspection every six years.

1487
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,200
For the courtyard, the existing

1488
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,720
hexagonal tiles, as described by the

1489
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,559
applicant, are deteriorated beyond

1490
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:13,119
repair, and they're mixed with areas of

1491
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:14,720
non-original square tiles, resulting in

1492
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:17,200
an inconsistent appearance throughout

1493
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:19,200
the courtyard. The applicant proposes to

1494
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,599
replace all existing tiles with new

1495
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:24,480
hexagonal tiles to match the original

1496
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:27,119
condition.

1497
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:29,599
The project plans also reflect a new ADA

1498
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:32,559
ramp to provide access from 7th Street,

1499
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:34,640
7th Avenue, excuse me. The proposed ramp

1500
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:37,680
will feature a square tile with a center

1501
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:39,680
medallion pattern. A new planter will be

1502
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:43,119
installed directly east of the ramp,

1503
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:45,680
topped with a metal handrail.

1504
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:48,240
Lastly, the project includes adding

1505
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,920
satio tile to the concrete stairs that

1506
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:54,520
lead from the east side of the courtyard

1507
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:54,520
up to the second story of the east wing.

1508
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,280
The city contracted with a professional

1509
01:03:57,039 --> 01:04:01,440
uh historian to evaluate the project for

1510
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,720
consistency with the st the secretary of

1511
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,319
the interior standards for

1512
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,240
rehabilitation.

1513
01:04:04,319 --> 01:04:08,000
Miss Clovis found the project as

1514
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:12,079
proposed to be consistent with the

1515
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:15,440
relevant standards 1 2 4 5 6 and 9 which

1516
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:18,240
I'll review individually.

1517
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,000
Uh the board also has a little visual

1518
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,839
handout on the standards which is

1519
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,760
available at the front of the room and

1520
01:04:21,839 --> 01:04:25,920
will be posted online. It's simply a

1521
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,599
little visual cheat sheet of our 10

1522
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,160
standards. We'll be going through the

1523
01:04:27,599 --> 01:04:31,760
relevant ones here.

1524
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:34,559
So the project is consistent with

1525
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,680
standard one because the historic use as

1526
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:41,039
a hotel is not changing and standard one

1527
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:42,960
is all about use.

1528
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:45,280
The project is consistent with standard

1529
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:48,160
two um which is all about preserving

1530
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:49,440
historic character because one the

1531
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,359
existing roof [clears throat] tiles will

1532
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,920
be cleaned and reinstalled rather than

1533
01:04:51,359 --> 01:04:56,559
replaced. two, the hodge podge of

1534
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:58,880
courtyard tiles in the non-original um

1535
01:04:56,559 --> 01:05:02,079
lighter grout color no longer reflect

1536
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:05,039
the original 1929 tile design and may

1537
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:06,720
therefore be restored. And then three,

1538
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:08,559
the steel casement windows are

1539
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,000
deteriorated beyond repair and the

1540
01:05:08,559 --> 01:05:14,440
replacement windows will be

1541
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,440
undistinguishable from the existing.

1542
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:19,440
Uh moving to standard five um which

1543
01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:21,359
talks about how distinct features uh

1544
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,720
should be kept. the project is

1545
01:05:21,359 --> 01:05:27,599
consistent um excuse me number four

1546
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,280
which speaks to how previous changes can

1547
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:33,039
become significant in their own right.

1548
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:35,680
So in this case the hotel's 1949 edition

1549
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:38,319
has acquired historic significance uh

1550
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:41,280
was designed by gardener daily and

1551
01:05:38,319 --> 01:05:43,280
recorded in the DPR form as significant.

1552
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,720
So the roof work occurring at that

1553
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:47,119
portion of the building follows the

1554
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:51,039
preservation standards um and is

1555
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:54,079
appropriate. Standard five um retaining

1556
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:56,960
distinct features um character-defining

1557
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:58,799
roof tiles will be preserved. The

1558
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,039
existing windows will be replaced in

1559
01:05:58,799 --> 01:06:03,839
kind and the original hexagonal

1560
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:05,920
courtyard tiles will be replicated um

1561
01:06:03,839 --> 01:06:07,599
with the same dimensions. So the

1562
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,319
courtyard will be brought back to its

1563
01:06:07,599 --> 01:06:13,440
historic appearance. Uh lastly, while

1564
01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:16,400
the removal of decorative tiles at the

1565
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:18,400
base of one of the arcade support

1566
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,240
columns will need to be removed to

1567
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,319
accommodate the ADA ramp, those tiles

1568
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,640
will be saved and used as needed in the

1569
01:06:22,319 --> 01:06:28,960
future for repairs elsewhere, such as

1570
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:31,440
these Lincoln Street entry steps.

1571
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:34,720
Uh standard six speaks to the importance

1572
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:36,201
of repairing before moving to a

1573
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,240
replacement plan.

1574
01:06:36,201 --> 01:06:37,839
» [clears throat]

1575
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,920
» The project is consistent with this

1576
01:06:37,839 --> 01:06:42,799
standard because uh as previously

1577
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,960
described, the roof work will follow the

1578
01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:47,920
guidance included in preservation brief

1579
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:50,720
30, which speaks to how to deal with

1580
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:52,640
clay tile roofs and the windows will be

1581
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:56,559
replaced in kind and the new courtyard

1582
01:06:52,640 --> 01:07:00,880
tile will be matching the old.

1583
01:06:56,559 --> 01:07:03,359
Uh standard nine, um the the new ADA

1584
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:05,599
ramp is a code compliant accessibility

1585
01:07:03,359 --> 01:07:07,920
feature. The standards recommend

1586
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:10,079
minimizing the impact of accessibility

1587
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:12,480
ramps by installing them on secondary

1588
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:14,480
elevations or by screening them with

1589
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,640
planting. And in this case, the proposed

1590
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:19,359
ramp is both located on a secondary

1591
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:21,280
elevation and is proposed to be screened

1592
01:07:19,359 --> 01:07:24,079
from the courtyard by a white concrete

1593
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:26,079
landscaped planter. The new ramp will

1594
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:28,240
feature square tiles with a central

1595
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:30,160
medallion which is compatible yet

1596
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:33,680
differentiated from the historic

1597
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:36,640
hexagonal tile pattern. Um likewise the

1598
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:38,799
square satio tiles proposed for the east

1599
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:41,799
stairs are compatible yet

1600
01:07:38,799 --> 01:07:41,799
differentiated.

1601
01:07:42,799 --> 01:07:46,640
So, the Cypress Inn is located within

1602
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,720
the downtown conservation district,

1603
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,920
which has the highest concentration of

1604
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:53,599
historic buildings in the city. And the

1605
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,520
municipal code requires that the

1606
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:58,799
historic resources board makes certain

1607
01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:00,559
findings for all projects um on historic

1608
01:07:58,799 --> 01:08:03,280
sites in the conservation district

1609
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:04,880
district, which this is. Uh several of

1610
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,960
the findings overlap with those

1611
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:09,920
standards that we just reviewed. You can

1612
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:12,319
see in green kind of how the standards

1613
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:14,400
and these conservation district findings

1614
01:08:12,319 --> 01:08:16,000
overlap. And then additionally, the

1615
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,080
board must find that the proposed

1616
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,080
project is consistent with the

1617
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,080
established design context of the

1618
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:24,239
conservation district and will not

1619
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,480
adversely affect any historic resource

1620
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:29,480
on the project site or on adjacent

1621
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:29,480
sites.

1622
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:35,279
the historic uh Cocker building directly

1623
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:37,839
east of the Cypress Inn, built in 1927

1624
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:39,359
and designed by Blaine Olsen, the same

1625
01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:41,679
architectural team that designed the

1626
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:43,520
Cypress Inn, features many similar

1627
01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:45,679
features such as the decorative tile

1628
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:47,440
work, steel windows, and clay roof

1629
01:08:45,679 --> 01:08:49,839
tiles.

1630
01:08:47,440 --> 01:08:53,600
Historic buildings on uh Dolores that

1631
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:56,400
back up to the Cypress in are also 1920s

1632
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:59,279
Spanish style buildings. The proposed

1633
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:00,960
project um as we've reviewed complies

1634
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:02,560
with the standards but it also complies

1635
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:06,000
with the relevant commercial design

1636
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:08,640
guidelines including guideline 8.1 which

1637
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,640
says basic elements of design integrity

1638
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:13,040
and consistency throughout each building

1639
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:16,000
should be preserved or restored.

1640
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:17,600
Guideline C which says windows design

1641
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,199
should be consistent with the original

1642
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:22,319
building concept or with its

1643
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:24,880
architecture. And lastly, guideline E,

1644
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:27,040
building materials should respect the

1645
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:30,440
traditions already established in the

1646
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,440
commercial district.

1647
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:35,600
Staff is recommending you adopt a

1648
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,000
resolution um finding the proposed

1649
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:39,600
project consistent with the established

1650
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,679
design context of the downtown

1651
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,279
conservation district and consistent

1652
01:09:41,679 --> 01:09:44,960
with the standards for for

1653
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:47,120
rehabilitation.

1654
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:49,428
That concludes my presentation. I

1655
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,640
believe the architect is online for any

1656
01:09:49,428 --> 01:09:52,719
[clears throat] questions.

1657
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:58,440
» Super. Thank you. Any questions for the

1658
01:09:52,719 --> 01:09:58,440
staff before we um open it up?

1659
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,560
» I I do have one question about the

1660
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,560
courtyard tiles. Well, actually two

1661
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,360
questions. Is there currently an ADA

1662
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:09,679
entrance ramp entrance?

1663
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:12,400
» I will defer to the architect to

1664
01:10:09,679 --> 01:10:14,719
describe how the current

1665
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:17,440
» Entrance is not ADA accessible.

1666
01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:19,600
» Okay. And then um under standard nine,

1667
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:21,600
the courtyard tiles being replaced

1668
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:24,000
rather than

1669
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,719
salvaged and things like that. So we're

1670
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:29,520
wholesalingly replacing

1671
01:10:26,719 --> 01:10:31,280
historic tiles with non-historic tiles

1672
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,040
that look the same.

1673
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:35,920
» That's right.

1674
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:37,840
» But we don't normally do that.

1675
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,400
We usually differentiate We usually

1676
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:43,840
differentiate between old and new.

1677
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:46,080
» If it Yes. If it is a new feature, a new

1678
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:48,800
feature should be differentiated so that

1679
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:52,239
it's not falsely

1680
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:55,600
um giving the sense that it's historic.

1681
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:58,880
Um the courtyard itself is is not a new

1682
01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:03,280
feature because it's a historic feature.

1683
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:05,120
It's essentially being repaired

1684
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:08,320
» Or replaced in kind.

1685
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:10,000
» Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. Any other

1686
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:12,000
questions for the staff before we go to

1687
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:16,080
the architect?

1688
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:18,480
Okay. No. Uh, no questions. So, we'll go

1689
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:21,480
forward to the hear from the architect,

1690
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:21,480
please.

1691
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:26,480
» Mr. Goodwin,

1692
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,679
» Can you guys hear me?

1693
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:29,520
» Yes, we can.

1694
01:11:27,679 --> 01:11:32,480
» All right. Wonderful. Thank you uh

1695
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:34,159
everyone for allowing us to present this

1696
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:37,760
and Katherine, thank you so much for

1697
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:41,040
that. Um the accessibility uh for the

1698
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:43,920
property right now um

1699
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:46,320
currently the only accessible path of

1700
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:49,280
travel is through the courtyard and

1701
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:52,000
after review of it through um

1702
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:54,719
topographic survey the slopes do not

1703
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:57,120
meet the requirements. So there

1704
01:11:54,719 --> 01:11:58,880
technically is no accessible path

1705
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:02,080
because the there's actually stairs from

1706
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:05,040
the other entry to the lobby. Um so

1707
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:07,360
currently even though the uh entry uh

1708
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:10,080
and the bathrooms and certain other

1709
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:14,159
features inside the building have an

1710
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:18,760
accessible nature the path to the inside

1711
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:18,760
is not currently accessible.

1712
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:26,600
» Okay. Thanks for that.

1713
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:26,600
» Any questions for the architect?

1714
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:32,719
Um, I had some questions about the the

1715
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:35,120
windows and

1716
01:12:32,719 --> 01:12:35,840
the profiles that are being proposed. I

1717
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,239
know [clears throat] that that was part

1718
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:41,120
of the I can't actually access it from

1719
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:43,600
my tablet. Could we go over that again

1720
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,960
or or see the

1721
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,960
the steel windows that are being

1722
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,960
proposed?

1723
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:58,040
» Uh, yes. Do you have the um brochure uh

1724
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,040
Katherine that you can show?

1725
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,199
» Um

1726
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:05,760
they do not

1727
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:09,520
» The existing windows that are being um

1728
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:11,600
replaced have a similar division that we

1729
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:14,320
are proposing. The only difference is

1730
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:17,920
that the mullions in the frame of the

1731
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:20,320
new windows are thicker than the steel

1732
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:22,480
um that was originally built.

1733
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:25,280
uh the simulated steel or the steel uh

1734
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:27,600
dividers that are inside of the proposed

1735
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:30,159
replacements are very similar to the

1736
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:33,360
thickness. It's just the outside frame

1737
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:35,520
which has to be nailed in place um in

1738
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:38,320
the existing openings

1739
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:40,880
um is thicker. So that would be the only

1740
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:42,560
uh major difference. Even though it it

1741
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:45,840
simulates the idea of what the old

1742
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:47,120
windows were, it is not an exact u

1743
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:51,120
match.

1744
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:54,080
» Okay. I was I think it would be nice to

1745
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:57,120
have the the the muttons. I understand

1746
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:58,800
it's a different um manufacturer,

1747
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,960
different time, and you have the double

1748
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,120
uh insulated windows and things, but I

1749
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:06,159
think that you could simulate is is the

1750
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:09,520
mutton simulating the the tea bar putty

1751
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:12,480
look or is it square?

1752
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:14,880
» The muttons are Yeah. And that will be

1753
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:17,520
something that we can work with staff um

1754
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:21,120
to show examples once we get one

1755
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:22,719
ordered. But the muttons are

1756
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:25,040
» Okay. So that's that I think that's

1757
01:14:22,719 --> 01:14:28,560
that'd be a nice important

1758
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:30,640
part of it to be replacing in kind. And

1759
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,400
then the other thing that was a little

1760
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,640
bit confusing in the in the packet, I

1761
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,800
was looking at a a detail that obviously

1762
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:39,120
there there's a lot of different

1763
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:41,600
conditions throughout the the building

1764
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:44,480
on on the different openings and I just

1765
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:48,080
wanted to make sure that the the

1766
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:50,960
locations of the window frames within

1767
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:53,280
the walls are maintained. So just

1768
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:56,480
confirming that

1769
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:59,280
» Distance from the base of the uh wall,

1770
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:00,480
you mean? Yes, basically the the

1771
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,440
position of the frame within the

1772
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:05,360
thickness of the wall, the depth.

1773
01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:07,280
» Yeah, that would be maintained as well

1774
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:09,199
and we can work with a mockup just to

1775
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:13,440
make sure that that um is approved if

1776
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:16,159
needed. But that's the general idea.

1777
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:17,760
» Okay, those are my two

1778
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:19,920
questions. Thank you. Otherwise, I think

1779
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,440
everything looks good, man. Well, I

1780
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,640
guess we'll wait for the public hearing

1781
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:23,840
to close before

1782
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,840
» Anybody else's questions for the

1783
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:28,880
architect.

1784
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:31,760
Okay, hearing none, we will open the

1785
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:33,199
comments to the public. If you have a

1786
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:36,199
comment, please come forward to the

1787
01:15:33,199 --> 01:15:36,199
podium.

1788
01:15:37,679 --> 01:15:40,239
Nobody in the room, anybody online,

1789
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:40,880
Shelby?

1790
01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:44,000
» No, sir.

1791
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:45,760
» Okay, so we'll close that back up. Um,

1792
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,840
any further discussion by staff or are

1793
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,440
we ready to

1794
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,920
uh

1795
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:54,320
make a recommendation?

1796
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,920
» You want to say anything more, Eric? I

1797
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:57,600
was just make the comments. I think all

1798
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:59,280
the replacing the roofing and kind like

1799
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:02,880
that and then use the redlinin tiles for

1800
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:04,640
the one so they can replace or can't uh

1801
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:07,520
they run out of the existing tiles to

1802
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:09,760
reclaim. That's a good choice. I think

1803
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,920
that I'm fine with the replacement and

1804
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,679
kind of the courtyard. I think that is

1805
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,520
obviously an important thing because you

1806
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:16,960
can see how uneven it is as you walking

1807
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,960
through that. I know

1808
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:20,480
» Um people sensitive to accessibility

1809
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:23,120
would probably have a problem with the

1810
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:24,560
existing conditions. So improving that

1811
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,520
with the nice tile that they found

1812
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:30,480
sounds great. Um dealing with the cross

1813
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:34,159
slopes of the the ramp that comes in off

1814
01:16:30,480 --> 01:16:36,400
um 7th Avenue makes a lot of sense as

1815
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:38,800
well. So everything else looks great.

1816
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:41,040
And then again, I would just stipulate

1817
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:46,480
that the the window frames have the T-

1818
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:48,800
bar putty mutton look and the uh the the

1819
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:51,199
location of the frames within the wall

1820
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:54,199
thickness is maintained per existing

1821
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:54,199
condition.

1822
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:56,719
» Okay.

1823
01:16:54,719 --> 01:16:57,440
» I will add those two as conditions of

1824
01:16:56,719 --> 01:16:59,520
approval.

1825
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:00,800
» Perfect.

1826
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,199
» All right. Would someone like to make a

1827
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,800
recommendation?

1828
01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:05,920
» Well, I'd like to say a couple things.

1829
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,679
Sorry. There's a I thought the phase 2

1830
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:11,440
report that Miss Clovis did was

1831
01:17:07,679 --> 01:17:13,520
excellent. Uh I had the sense that she

1832
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:16,239
uh really understood the project and

1833
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:19,440
made the important salient points. And

1834
01:17:16,239 --> 01:17:22,960
if you'll just indulge me for a minute,

1835
01:17:19,440 --> 01:17:25,920
uh when uh we were uh I think in your

1836
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:29,520
report, Katherine, you said that in 2002

1837
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:33,360
2003, the property was enlarged to the

1838
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:36,960
north to add new rooms on the on that

1839
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:40,880
northern side. And I had to remember

1840
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:45,199
that I think I served on the HRB back in

1841
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:49,360
2002, which makes it very long time ago

1842
01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:52,880
because uh that's that's an example of

1843
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:57,840
we had to discuss the removal of a

1844
01:17:52,880 --> 01:18:01,280
studio that was the um uh office of uh

1845
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:04,239
one of the prominent women painters in

1846
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:06,800
town who had started way back when it

1847
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:09,520
was the arts and crafts club here, Mary

1848
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:11,199
Denil Morgan, and that her studio was

1849
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:13,760
kind of a mess really. It didn't look

1850
01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:15,920
really beautiful, but it was historic.

1851
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:18,800
And I remember we struggled with that

1852
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:22,400
idea at the time that here's another

1853
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:24,719
historic site that is changing and

1854
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:28,719
moving into a new addition to this

1855
01:18:24,719 --> 01:18:31,920
hotel. But it 20 years later, I mean, it

1856
01:18:28,719 --> 01:18:34,320
looks beautiful. So there you go. and

1857
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:37,440
the gardener dy's edition. All all of

1858
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:40,960
this is adding to the historic record

1859
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:43,199
which I think is very significant. So I

1860
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:46,880
enjoyed reading the structural engineers

1861
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:49,920
report. It was very folksy more not as

1862
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:53,120
uh you know serious as some some write

1863
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:55,840
but I I thought it was great and I I I

1864
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:59,960
agree with Eric's uh additions. I

1865
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,960
thought those are appropriate.

1866
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,120
Okay.

1867
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:12,199
Uh, would someone like to make a

1868
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:12,199
recommendation?

1869
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,630
We have the two caveats already about

1870
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:20,000
the windows that Eric mentioned.

1871
01:19:18,630 --> 01:19:22,320
» [clears throat]

1872
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:25,360
» Um, I'll I'll make a motion that the

1873
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:29,280
resolution uh for this project, the

1874
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:31,760
Cypress in U found consistent with the

1875
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:34,400
uh established design context of the

1876
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:36,000
downtown conservation district and

1877
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:38,480
consistent with the Secretary of the

1878
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:40,719
Interior standards for the treatment of

1879
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:43,199
historic properties.

1880
01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:45,840
uh including uh issuing a determination

1881
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:48,480
of consistency with the standards for

1882
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:51,280
the proposed exterior alterations and

1883
01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:53,760
site improvements at the La Rivera

1884
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:54,960
Hotel.

1885
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,640
» Do I have a second?

1886
01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:00,440
» I'll second.

1887
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:00,440
» Can we have a vote, please?

1888
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:02,640
» Board member Dyer,

1889
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,920
» Yes.

1890
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:04,320
» Board member Guiier,

1891
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,440
» Yes.

1892
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:05,760
» Board member Rinstein,

1893
01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:06,800
» Yes.

1894
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,040
» Board member Boris,

1895
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:08,000
» Yes.

1896
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:08,400
» And chair Croman,

1897
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,679
» Yes.

1898
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:11,520
» Motion passes.

1899
01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:13,920
» Great. Thanks very much for that. Um, do

1900
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:18,920
we have a director's report?

1901
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:18,920
» I do have uh several announcements.

1902
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:25,600
» Um, Shelby, do you mind can I can I

1903
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:28,320
display this? Do I pull it over?

1904
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,679
And I meant to do this while we had more

1905
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,360
of an audience in the room, but if

1906
01:20:29,679 --> 01:20:34,880
anyone's watching later, just so the

1907
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:38,080
public knows where to find any staff

1908
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:40,640
level project approval or determination

1909
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:43,360
of ineligibility, uh this is how you

1910
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,360
will find it.

1911
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:53,360
So from the city's homepage, you'll go

1912
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:56,920
up to departments,

1913
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,920
planning and building,

1914
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:01,960
planning division,

1915
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:07,679
and then this icon that says current

1916
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:10,040
planning applications, determinations,

1917
01:21:07,679 --> 01:21:10,040
and approvals. [clears throat]

1918
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:15,600
And there's several different categories

1919
01:21:12,719 --> 01:21:18,880
here where staff

1920
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:20,960
leaves notice of of various actions. The

1921
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:24,320
historic determinations dropdown is

1922
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:26,800
where you'll be able to access um

1923
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:30,719
determinations of ineligibility. These

1924
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:33,199
are are a little bit old. We we add the

1925
01:21:30,719 --> 01:21:36,080
determinations of ineligibility on the

1926
01:21:33,199 --> 01:21:37,920
first day of the appeal period. Um

1927
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:40,480
here's some some old ones, but I'll just

1928
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:44,000
pull this one up.

1929
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:45,600
So you'll see the cover sheet which the

1930
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:48,800
board just recently approved this new

1931
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:52,560
format which will say

1932
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:54,719
why the property uh is ineligible and

1933
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:58,400
then the the report itself is also

1934
01:21:54,719 --> 01:22:00,800
accessible. Um you can see maps

1935
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:03,760
um photographs.

1936
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:06,480
So that is where

1937
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:10,639
the city posts posts things. And then I

1938
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:11,840
have a few other um announcements.

1939
01:22:10,639 --> 01:22:13,760
Last [cough and clears throat] week uh

1940
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:15,840
the city

1941
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:19,280
hosted an objective design and

1942
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:22,687
development standard for the downtown

1943
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:23,679
workshop uh last Wednesday.

1944
01:22:22,687 --> 01:22:26,239
[clears throat] This was the fourth

1945
01:22:23,679 --> 01:22:28,880
workshop and it was co-hosted by the

1946
01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:31,360
principal planner Marne Waffle and our

1947
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:33,840
consultant Optic Coast Design. So, the

1948
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:37,120
city is soliciting feedback on preferred

1949
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:38,880
architectural styles for multifamily and

1950
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:42,800
mixeduse housing in the villages

1951
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:45,040
downtown. Um, we're seeking feedback on

1952
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,120
also which which architectural design

1953
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:49,440
element should be regulated for each

1954
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:51,760
architectural style. So, if you missed

1955
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:53,360
the work workshop, you can view the

1956
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:56,000
PowerPoint presentation and you can

1957
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:59,199
watch the meeting on our YouTube channel

1958
01:22:56,000 --> 01:23:01,679
and last week's Friday letter also had a

1959
01:22:59,199 --> 01:23:03,600
blurb about the workshop with pertinent

1960
01:23:01,679 --> 01:23:06,239
links. So, there's there are surveys.

1961
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:08,560
So, I highly encourage the board and

1962
01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:11,360
members of the public to get involved

1963
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:13,920
because that's very project with a great

1964
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:15,920
impact. My second announcement is that

1965
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:19,040
the city has hired a new planning and

1966
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:21,520
building director, Andy Mrick. And Andy

1967
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:23,760
will be joining us on September 30th,

1968
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:26,400
and we're very excited to welcome him.

1969
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:28,239
So, you'll be meeting him in o in

1970
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:30,080
October.

1971
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:32,000
Third announcement is that, as you know,

1972
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:33,840
the board is registered for a two-part

1973
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:36,400
virtual training on the secretary of the

1974
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:38,639
interior standards. Uh part one was last

1975
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:41,040
week and part two is uh tomorrow. I

1976
01:23:38,639 --> 01:23:43,040
believe the webinars are recorded and I

1977
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:46,000
will be sending out the recording links

1978
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:48,159
as soon as I receive them.

1979
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,320
Additionally, U Meg Clovis will present

1980
01:23:48,159 --> 01:23:52,320
an in-person refresher on the standards

1981
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,000
as requested at a date yet to be

1982
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:56,480
determined, but definitely haven't

1983
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:58,719
forgotten about that. Thank you to the

1984
01:23:56,480 --> 01:24:00,400
board for attending that joint HRB

1985
01:23:58,719 --> 01:24:02,719
planning commission meeting on September

1986
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:04,719
9th to consider the upcoming

1987
01:24:02,719 --> 01:24:07,280
rehabilitation of the Harrison Memorial

1988
01:24:04,719 --> 01:24:08,880
Library. Um the board issued a

1989
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:10,080
determination of consistency with the

1990
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:11,840
standards and then the planning

1991
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:14,880
commission approved the design review

1992
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:17,760
application and then a design for that

1993
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,600
plaque recognizing MJ Murphy and Bernard

1994
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,840
Maybeck will be brought back to the

1995
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:24,159
board for final copy approval. And this

1996
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:28,880
is a city property so we have a lot of

1997
01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:31,440
control over that plaque. And then um

1998
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:33,040
the design guidelines 1.5 will be

1999
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:36,639
brought back to the planning commission

2000
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:39,679
in October and then sub subsequently uh

2001
01:24:36,639 --> 01:24:42,000
considered by the city council and

2002
01:24:39,679 --> 01:24:44,480
according to council members Baron and

2003
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:46,480
Delves who are the city council sponsors

2004
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:48,560
of that project. The inclusion of the

2005
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:50,880
draft visual history section will be

2006
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,800
postponed until after the main document

2007
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:55,520
has been approved.

2008
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:57,040
And then my last announcement is that we

2009
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,840
are going to pull the board for

2010
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:02,960
availability to adjust the meeting time

2011
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:04,960
of the regularly scheduled October 19th

2012
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,000
meeting because the chambers is going to

2013
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:09,520
be in use uh for another meeting that

2014
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,520
day. We're going to reach out to you

2015
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:15,520
tomorrow via email to see if maybe a

2016
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:16,239
morning meeting time could be feasible.

2017
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,920
» Super. Thanks.

2018
01:25:16,239 --> 01:25:19,360
» So when do we get the visual history

2019
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:21,600
then? Because we still need to approve

2020
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:24,719
it, right?

2021
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:26,800
The only update I have is that the

2022
01:25:24,719 --> 01:25:28,709
document is going to be considered

2023
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:30,159
without it in the short term

2024
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:34,600
[clears throat]

2025
01:25:30,159 --> 01:25:34,600
per council members Baron and Delves,

2026
01:25:34,719 --> 01:25:39,120
» But we asked it to have it back to

2027
01:25:37,224 --> 01:25:40,400
[clears throat] review. So,

2028
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,920
» I understand that they're not going to

2029
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,920
include it in the main document at this

2030
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:46,000
point, but I think it it's kind of nice

2031
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,560
that if we get our work done, they can

2032
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:51,840
then have the option to include it or

2033
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,840
not include it, I guess.

2034
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:57,679
When I receive

2035
01:25:54,560 --> 01:26:00,960
the guidance from the council members,

2036
01:25:57,679 --> 01:26:02,800
uh, we'll bring it back to you.

2037
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,880
» Is it decoupling the project though if

2038
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:07,679
we do it? I mean, it's like we're doing

2039
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:09,440
the same thing but not doing it.

2040
01:26:07,679 --> 01:26:11,760
» I'd recommend any member of the public

2041
01:26:09,440 --> 01:26:15,520
who has questions about it to contact

2042
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:17,840
the council member project sponsors.

2043
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:20,800
» Okay.

2044
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:22,560
Okay. Well, thanks for the report. Um,

2045
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:24,000
our next regular meeting is scheduled

2046
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,960
for the 19th of October. As Katherine

2047
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,520
said, I guess we're going to look at

2048
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:30,639
some alternate timings for that. Um, any

2049
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:32,880
other comments before we adjourn.

2050
01:26:30,639 --> 01:26:34,080
Okay. Thanks everybody on the board and

2051
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,320
thanks for the public for joining us

2052
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,800
today. Uh, the meeting's adjourned.

2053
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,960
» Thank you.

2054
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,960
» Thank you.

2055
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:50,560
Um I think I think we can raise it as a

2056
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:52,480
um a future agenda item and we can just

2057
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:53,920
make a decision on it. Yeah.

2058
01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:56,639
» Yeah. [clears throat]

2059
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:58,800
» Yeah. I will reach out to our clerk who

2060
01:26:56,639 --> 01:27:02,840
I think handles those proclamations and

2061
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,840
I'll get more information for you.