[0:48] Um, it's 4 o'clock, so I'd like to ask
[0:51] uh that we call the meeting to order.
[0:55] » Can we have a roll call, please?
[0:57] » Board member Dyer
[0:58] » Here.
[0:59] » Board member Guiieri
[1:00] » Here.
[1:01] » Board member Rinstein,
[1:03] » Board member Boris,
[1:04] » Here.
[1:05] » And Chair Croman,
[1:06] » Here. Will you rise and join me in the
[1:08] pledge of allegiance?
[1:13] » I pledge allegiance to the flag
[1:15] » Of the United States of America and to
[1:18] the republic for which it stands, one
[1:20] nation under God, indivisible, with
[1:24] liberty and justice for all.
[1:29] » Thank you.
[1:34] Do we have any public appearances? Any
[1:36] um people from the public that wish to
[1:38] speak on items not part of the agenda?
[1:44] » Do we have anybody online? Shelby. Okay.
[1:46] Hearing none, we'll go forward with the
[1:48] board member announcements. Any board
[1:50] member announcements?
[1:50] » Yes, I have.
[1:51] » Yes, ma'am.
[1:52] » Do you have your thing on?
[1:56] » Yes. The middle. I think
[1:57] » The I think it's on.
[1:59] » It's on. The um next year is the 52nd
[2:03] anniversary of Joanne Matthew's book,
[2:06] The Fairy Tale Houses of Carmemell, and
[2:08] it's a seminal book about Hugh
[2:09] Commtock's Fairy Tale Houses. I'd like
[2:12] to propose honoring Joanne by a
[2:14] proclamation being drafted, given to the
[2:16] historic resources board for review, and
[2:18] presented by the mayor and the city
[2:20] council. I brought a copy of the
[2:22] original book. If anyone would like to
[2:25] take a look at it after the meeting,
[2:27] you're welcome to do that. Joanne
[2:29] Matthew is no longer with with us. I
[2:31] believe she had a son. I could possibly
[2:33] find him. She also had a good friend
[2:35] that worked at a shop next to Piccadilly
[2:38] Park. And so there would be at least
[2:40] since she's not with us, there would be
[2:42] at least a couple of people that knew
[2:43] her if this were to come about. Um
[2:47] that's pretty much my announcement.
[2:50] » Thank you.
[2:51] Any others?
[2:55] Okay, hearing none, we'll move forward
[2:56] with the consent agenda.
[2:59] Um, we have the regular meeting minutes
[3:02] for the August 17th uh meeting as well
[3:05] as the special joint session meeting
[3:08] minutes from September 9th.
[3:10] Any comments on either one of those?
[3:16] » I had a question about the September 9th
[3:18] meeting.
[3:22] Kathy, there was You mentioned this I
[3:24] think earlier was the uh my impression
[3:27] of the planning commission motion was
[3:29] that the the condition of approval was
[3:34] more of a not a condition of approval
[3:36] but a something for the architects to
[3:39] consider which was about the guardrail.
[3:43] » If that did not make it into the minutes
[3:45] uh Shelby and I will revise them and
[3:47] bring it back to you because that is my
[3:49] understanding as well
[3:50] » That it was not a condition of approval.
[3:51] I think it was noted as a one. So that's
[3:53] » Okay.
[3:54] » Okay. Thank you.
[3:55] » We'll bring it back next month with an
[3:56] edit because I also understood that
[3:59] discussion of the railing wraparound to
[4:01] be a suggestion, not a requirement.
[4:03] » Great.
[4:03] » Good.
[4:04] » Thank you.
[4:06] » Any other comments on the minutes?
[4:08] » So we'll remove the September 9th from
[4:11] that and
[4:12] » Y. Okay. Do we have a
[4:14] » Second?
[4:15] » Yep. Okay. There we go. Um, so we have a
[4:19] approve a request for approval and a
[4:20] second. Can we have a vote, please?
[4:22] » I'm so sorry. Who made the initial
[4:24] motion? I couldn't.
[4:24] » I can make it. I can make it. [laughter]
[4:26] Sorry.
[4:27] » Thank you. Okay. Roll call vote. Board
[4:30] member Dyer.
[4:31] » Yes.
[4:31] » Board member Guiieri.
[4:32] » Yes.
[4:33] » Board member Rinstein.
[4:34] » Yes.
[4:34] » Board member Voris.
[4:35] » Yes.
[4:36] » And Chair Croman,
[4:37] » Yes.
[4:37] » Motion passes.
[4:38] » Thank you. Okay. Now, we'll go on to
[4:40] orders of business with the first order
[4:41] of business being an information brief
[4:44] on the forge in the forest. Um, I I want
[4:48] to stipulate that this is an information
[4:50] brief, not a decision brief. And
[4:51] Katherine's going to walk us through the
[4:53] process. I'm certainly happy to hear any
[4:55] thoughts that uh our public has. Um, and
[4:58] then the board will take up a discussion
[5:00] if they feel they need to. So, can we
[5:02] have the staff report, please?
[5:04] » Thank you, Chair Croman. Um, I don't
[5:07] have a presentation for this item, but
[5:08] at the chair's request, I'll simply
[5:10] review the project timeline uh from the
[5:13] start to where we are now. So, bear with
[5:15] me. It is a lengthy one. I'll go back to
[5:18] uh January 31st, 2025, which is when the
[5:21] project um the property owner submitted
[5:24] a historic evaluation and uh paid their
[5:26] fees. In February of 2025, staff
[5:29] determined that a phase one initial
[5:31] historic assessment was not necessary
[5:34] due to assoc known associations with
[5:36] builder Hugh Commtock and iron worker
[5:39] Francis Whitaker. Therefore, rather than
[5:42] do the initial historic assessment,
[5:44] staff directed Margaret Clovis, a
[5:46] qualified professional under contract to
[5:48] the city, to go ahead and skip to the
[5:50] next step, which is to prepare a phase
[5:51] one intensive historic assessment uh in
[5:54] the format of a California parks and
[5:56] recreation DPR form.
[5:59] So, just to clarify, um, with the
[6:01] knowledge that there's a potentially a
[6:03] significant builder and a significant
[6:05] individual, we can just go straight to
[6:06] the most intensive evaluation that the
[6:08] city performs. In March of 2025, Miss
[6:12] Clovis completes that uh intensive
[6:14] assessment, the DPR form, which
[6:16] concluded that the property is eligible
[6:18] under California Register criterion 2
[6:22] person because Francis Whitaker uh the
[6:24] iron worker contributed to Carmel's
[6:26] ongoing artistic community and is
[6:29] considered a nationally renowned
[6:30] blacksmith. However, because the
[6:32] building does not retain substantial
[6:34] integrity, it is not eligible for
[6:36] listing on the Carmel Historic
[6:38] Inventory.
[6:40] Uh in in March, staff prepared a
[6:42] preliminary determination of
[6:44] ineligibility, emails that determination
[6:46] to all historic resources board members
[6:49] and the property owner and applicant and
[6:51] post it online. And at the end of this
[6:53] presentation, I'm going to just walk
[6:55] everyone through where those online
[6:57] postings can be found. In April 2025, um
[7:02] the 10 calendar day appeal period closed
[7:04] without any appeals being received from
[7:06] the public and without any historic
[7:08] resources board member calling up the
[7:10] determination for further discussion uh
[7:13] which the code does describe as an
[7:15] option.
[7:17] And then uh later that month, April
[7:20] 22nd, 2025, a design review application
[7:24] for the corner market restaurant was
[7:26] submitted with fees paid in May. There
[7:29] were no proposed changes to the seat
[7:31] count, either interior or exterior, nor
[7:34] an increase in floor area, or change in
[7:36] the use as a full-line restaurant. The
[7:39] former planning and building director,
[7:41] Anna Janette, categorizes the project as
[7:44] a track 1 major design review.
[7:47] And then in November 2025, Miss Janette
[7:50] approves design the design review
[7:52] application. Uh the approval is mailed
[7:55] to all property owners within 100 ft of
[7:58] the project site as the code requires
[8:00] and the approved plans again were posted
[8:02] online. No inquiries or appeals were
[8:05] received during the 10 calendar day
[8:06] appeal period.
[8:08] That brings us to 2026. Uh in March,
[8:11] board member Katherine Guieri inquires
[8:14] via email as to the safeguarding of the
[8:16] forge artifacts. Uh later that month,
[8:19] planning staff contacted Thomas Hood,
[8:21] architect and president of the Carmel
[8:23] Heritage Society, regarding the possible
[8:25] relocation of the forge and anvil. Mr.
[8:29] Hood expressed interest in relocating
[8:31] the artifacts to the first Murphy House
[8:32] property. Uh planning staff provided
[8:35] photos of the artifacts and contact
[8:37] information for the corner market
[8:39] project team so that uh Mr. Hood could
[8:41] arrange a site visit.
[8:43] In April, the historic resources board
[8:45] briefly discusses the potential artifact
[8:48] relocation plan. During the meeting
[8:51] in August, uh the building permit was
[8:54] issued in accordance with the design
[8:56] review plans.
[8:58] Uh, in late August, the city building
[9:00] official and the building inspector go
[9:02] out to conduct an inspection and they
[9:04] identify a requirement to replace all
[9:06] framing members on on a north wall uh a
[9:10] part of the north wall. Due to severe
[9:13] rot and termite infestation, the framing
[9:15] was beyond repair and the building
[9:17] official ordered ordered them to be
[9:19] replaced.
[9:21] Uh August 26th, Thomas Hood of the
[9:24] Heritage Society calls um Justin Cogley
[9:27] of the Corner Market Team and emails
[9:29] planning staff to relay that the forge,
[9:31] which the rough dimensions are uh 60 in
[9:34] wide by 64 in deep, 87 in tall, should
[9:37] be housed in a heated space, and Mr.
[9:40] Hood offers that the two reasons we, the
[9:43] Heritage Society, cannot put it in the
[9:44] first Murphy house. Size, we have very
[9:47] limited space for exhibits and
[9:49] gatherings. weight. The floor would not
[9:51] carry the weight of this large object.
[9:53] We're guessing it could be 600 pounds or
[9:55] more. Uh September 1st, planning staff
[9:58] meets with the corner market team to
[10:00] discuss a forthcoming submitt of a
[10:02] building permit revision that would
[10:04] reflect that required north wall
[10:06] reframing as well as roof repair. The
[10:08] corner market team additionally shares
[10:11] that the whereabouts of the anvil are
[10:12] unknown. The anvil was separate from the
[10:15] forge unlike the other ironworking tools
[10:17] which are welded onto the forge.
[10:20] The wood bar from the former Forge in
[10:22] the Forest restaurant is in the
[10:23] possession of the former property owner
[10:25] as agreed upon with the current owner.
[10:27] Uh the former owner does not know the
[10:29] whereabouts of the anvil.
[10:31] September 9th, uh the corner market team
[10:34] emails the city to say, "We would like
[10:36] to gift the original forge to the city
[10:38] of Carmel by the Sea. As agreed, the
[10:40] city would coordinate its removal and
[10:42] relocation over the next couple of
[10:44] weeks, no later than September 25th, as
[10:47] construction continues to move forward.
[10:49] Uh September 19th, planning staff
[10:51] engages with public works to initiate
[10:53] collection of bids to relocate the
[10:54] forge. September 14, uh HRB Chair Jordan
[10:59] Croman requests staff add this as a
[11:01] discussion uh as an order of business to
[11:04] this evening's meeting. September 15th,
[11:08] uh, acting city administrator Brandon
[11:09] Swanson directs public works to collect
[11:13] those quotes, which will involve
[11:15] disconnecting the forge gas line. The
[11:17] forge had been retrofitted as a
[11:19] fireplace, likely during the 1970s
[11:21] conversion to a restaurant, and move the
[11:24] forge to a temporary storage location
[11:26] yet to be determined. On the 17th, uh,
[11:29] the corner market team confirms via
[11:32] email, "We are very pleased to provide a
[11:34] plaque inside or outside TBD honoring
[11:37] the building's history. We will
[11:38] thoughtfully determine the plaque's
[11:40] wording, size, and design to ensure it
[11:42] is a tasteful tribute to Carmel by the
[11:44] Seas heritage.
[11:46] September 18th, city contracts with a
[11:49] professional mover at a cost of
[11:50] approximately $5,000 to safely relocate
[11:54] the forge to temporary city storage. And
[11:56] the city will continue to look for
[11:58] opportunities to safely display the
[11:59] forge for public education in the
[12:01] future.
[12:03] Uh that concludes my timeline and I'm
[12:07] happy to answer any questions about the
[12:09] timeline from the board um or the
[12:11] public.
[12:12] » Great. Thank you. Um, does the board
[12:14] have any [clears throat] questions for
[12:16] staff?
[12:20] » I guess I I have one just to start with.
[12:23] The location of the anvil, I mean,
[12:25] that's a 600lb anvil or whatever it is.
[12:27] Um, have we have we narrowed down where
[12:29] we think it is?
[12:31] » So, uh, the forge and the anvil are two
[12:33] separate items. It's the forge that is
[12:35] the approximately 600 lb item. the
[12:39] anvil. Um if if you look in the the
[12:41] photos, it was sitting next to the forge
[12:44] in photos I could find from um Yelp,
[12:48] Google, the restaurant reviews, those
[12:50] photos do show an anvil. The current
[12:52] property owner has relayed that they
[12:54] never they've never seen it. When they
[12:56] took ownership, they haven't seen it.
[12:59] » And I did reach out to the former
[13:01] property owner who confirms they do not
[13:03] have it.
[13:04] » Okay. Thank you. Other questions for the
[13:08] staff?
[13:11] Um I I have one other question then just
[13:14] um so in the in our reading material um
[13:17] it mentioned that Francis Whitaker was
[13:19] not on the Carmel historic statement um
[13:24] why is that?
[13:28] » Where where in the reading material the
[13:30] cont historic cont historic context
[13:33] statement. Yeah. Um
[13:35] » It was it is it was somewhere.
[13:38] » Yeah.
[13:39] » Um
[13:39] » I read that too.
[13:40] » Yeah. I don't have it exactly.
[13:44] » Um
[13:46] but I I was just curious just that you
[13:47] know he's obviously a a very renowned
[13:50] blacksmith um you know contribute a lot
[13:52] to Carmel um in his own right. And I was
[13:55] just wondering why he wasn't on there.
[13:59] Shoot.
[14:00] » I will certainly do a search to see if
[14:03] Francis would occur. is in the context
[14:05] statement or not and we have a you know
[14:06] a running list of edits when the
[14:08] document will next be updated and if he
[14:11] is not in there he will be added.
[14:12] » Mhm.
[14:16] » Uh yeah it's on page five of 11. Um it
[14:20] says
[14:22] uh Francis Whitaker is Whitaker Whitaker
[14:26] is not included in Carmel's historic
[14:27] context statement. However, the context
[14:29] statement explains that exclusion from
[14:30] the historic context statement does not
[14:32] preclude importance to car Carmel's
[14:35] history referencing page 186.
[14:38] » That's correct.
[14:39] » Okay.
[14:40] » And so the consultant did, you know,
[14:41] even though he is not listed in the
[14:43] context statement, she did identify him
[14:45] as a very significant individual.
[14:47] » Yeah. I think that would be a person
[14:49] though that we would want to nominate
[14:50] onto that statement, right? Yeah. Okay.
[14:54] Any other thoughts?
[14:57] Okay. Um, we will go ahead and open up
[15:00] for public discussion. Uh, any members
[15:02] of the public wish to comment on this
[15:06] situation, please come forward, state
[15:08] your name.
[15:15] » Nancy Tumi, resident. Thank you for what
[15:17] you're doing. Um, I did send a letter in
[15:20] to you, which you've all seen, so I
[15:22] won't repeat what was in there. I guess
[15:24] my um you know personal concern is that
[15:29] the the exterior elements of this
[15:33] property be as uh maintained as best as
[15:38] possible as this continues to go through
[15:40] whatever its logical life cycle is to
[15:44] get it to current and functioning mode.
[15:47] Um you know as I had mentioned we've
[15:49] been you know dined there [snorts]
[15:51] times over the years and um that very
[15:54] rustic nature of that venue is critical
[15:59] to maintain from just a general public
[16:02] uh perspective and again respecting the
[16:05] fact that um where deterioration has
[16:08] occurred you've got to do some
[16:09] refreshment of of [clears throat] uh to
[16:12] make things stable and safe and uh
[16:14] following all the appropriate uh
[16:16] regulations. along those lines. But um I
[16:19] I'm just concerned that the path that
[16:21] this is on right now will have a very
[16:23] bright and sparkling uh clean and crisp
[16:26] and new feel when rustic and high
[16:30] character is more in tune to what a lot
[16:34] of uh us as pure patrons of that
[16:37] location would look forward to seeing
[16:40] maintained. So, a casual observation,
[16:43] not historically relevant, maybe not
[16:45] process relevant, but uh nonetheless
[16:48] just reflects an opinion that many
[16:49] people have. Thank [snorts] you very
[16:51] much for your consideration.
[16:53] » Thank you, ma'am.
[16:55] Other members of the public wish to
[16:57] comment.
[16:59] [clears throat]
[17:02] [snorts]
[17:06] [clears throat]
[17:07] Excuse me. I'm Neil Cruz. I want to uh
[17:11] thank the chairman Jordan for realizing
[17:14] what was going on and trying to bring
[17:16] attention to it. I really appreciate
[17:18] that. Julie went did a amazing amount of
[17:21] work on this. So many people actually
[17:23] have helped. Katherine Wallace and
[17:26] Carol Hall did a lot of work on this. So
[17:28] I just want to thank everybody that has
[17:30] participated this and I know I've left
[17:32] out some names. Um I want to thinking
[17:35] about what to contribute. Well, I was
[17:36] the designer of Forging the Forest
[17:38] Gumble Store for 10 years, and I worked
[17:40] directly with Dan Glosser. We turned it
[17:42] into what it finally became. We married
[17:45] the two parcels together. It was a 5,000
[17:48] uh square foot parcel that is now a
[17:50] 10,000t parcel. We married it with the
[17:53] property below. I believe in one of
[17:54] those offices uh we may have had u the
[17:59] Coast Weekly, you know, is had a small
[18:01] office down there. But anyway, he
[18:03] married those two sites together. Uh, it
[18:06] started when I got a call from a guy by
[18:08] the name of Dan Glosser and he says, 'I
[18:10] was told I should talk to you about
[18:11] doing some design work at the forge and
[18:13] he says, 'I'm bringing five designers
[18:15] in. I'm going to give you each an area
[18:17] to do a design and then I'm going to
[18:19] pick one of you to be the designer for
[18:20] the project. He picked me and that began
[18:24] I don't know if it was 10 or 12 years.
[18:27] But to give you some idea, at one point
[18:28] Brian Rose said to Dan and I, because we
[18:30] were going into the planning commission,
[18:32] it was every, you know, almost every
[18:34] meeting, Dan had something else he
[18:36] wanted to do. As soon as we finished a
[18:38] commission meeting, he was with me, "No,
[18:39] no, we're going to do this, this, and
[18:40] that. Write that up for me by tomorrow.
[18:42] I want to see that tomorrow." And uh,
[18:46] Brian Rose said to us one day, he said,
[18:47] "Neil, do you realize that your file is
[18:49] now bigger than the entire Carmel
[18:51] Plaza?" He said, "That's how much work
[18:53] you guys have done on this thing." This
[18:55] was Dan's love. Dan was called Dan the
[18:57] Ride Man. His father was best friends
[18:59] with Walt Disney. And Dan knew all of
[19:02] the designers in the world of theme
[19:05] centers. Okay? And his friends were
[19:08] people that designed theme centers
[19:09] around the world. And so he started
[19:12] inviting them to his house which was in
[19:14] in Caramel Woods area. And he would say,
[19:16] "Neil, I want you to take these guys,
[19:18] show them where we want to work, and and
[19:20] and put them to work." And so, uh, I
[19:24] did. Only the interesting thing about it
[19:26] was they they just had pads of paper and
[19:28] pencil and they just went to work like
[19:31] this. And in in seconds, they had
[19:34] complete designs. They had pictures.
[19:36] They had So, the uh the designer uh the
[19:38] the number one designer, the Frontier
[19:40] Village did the interior of the General
[19:43] Store uh which was the two-story
[19:46] building behind the forge, which also
[19:48] had a kitchen and a dining room in it at
[19:50] the time.
[19:52] Uh Dan had made very good friends with
[19:55] many designers in Germany and so he
[19:57] asked them to do special woodwork for
[19:59] this was mostly for the lower property.
[20:02] A lot of the woodwork that you see on
[20:03] that actually came from Germany. The
[20:05] plans came in German. I had learned some
[20:07] German. So Dan asked me to translate the
[20:09] plans and then it was my job to turn
[20:11] this over to the contractor and build
[20:13] it. Uh Dan, this was Dan's love. He
[20:18] absolutely this meant everything to him.
[20:21] uh he was not happy with what happened
[20:24] in in the years that followed, but I
[20:25] said, you know, that's that's the way it
[20:27] goes. But uh you guys, there are so many
[20:30] stories. I there were so many famous
[20:31] people that had to come here. So many
[20:33] people that got married here or they,
[20:36] you know, they pitched their proposal to
[20:39] their mate at the forge. They had to do
[20:41] it because this was the most magical
[20:43] place in the city. Uh, so now all of
[20:47] that and I I'm sorry I was out of the
[20:49] loop so long and thank you to Julie Went
[20:51] for bringing it to our awareness and uh
[20:54] when I first saw a friend of mine took
[20:56] photographs of it after it had been
[20:58] changed and I went into a pretty bad
[21:01] funk. I was depressed for a while. Dan
[21:04] and I both got depressed when the
[21:05] general store was removed. But uh this
[21:08] really hit me hard and I just I just
[21:11] wanted to say something about what a
[21:14] glorious and incredible and magical
[21:16] place this was. Perhaps one of the most
[21:18] magical places in all of Carmel history.
[21:21] Dan would send me out. He'd say, "Neil,
[21:23] I Francis Whitaker is going to he's
[21:25] going to give a talk in Carmel. You get
[21:26] over there and here's what I want from
[21:28] him. I want this story and that story
[21:30] and I want some paperwork." So Francis
[21:32] was giving us stuff to put up at the
[21:34] forge. Uh, one morning Dan calls me up
[21:37] early and says, "We're going to San Juan
[21:39] Batista." And I said, "What the hell
[21:40] for?" And he said, "You'll know. Just
[21:42] get ready. Get dressed." And we drove to
[21:44] San Juan Batista. We went to all the
[21:45] flea markets and we were picking out old
[21:47] horseshoes and old metal and old uh
[21:50] rusty pliers and everything that we
[21:53] could get. And I finally said, "What is
[21:55] this for, Dan?" And he says, "We're
[21:57] going to weld it against the anvil in in
[22:00] the store and we're going to make a
[22:01] frame around." So all of that metal work
[22:03] that you see that was welded onto the
[22:06] hearth uh we did because Dan that was
[22:09] Dan's idea to do it. So I'm
[22:15] I don't I don't know where to go from
[22:16] here. Is it is it too late? I I I want
[22:18] to say I understand the problems with
[22:20] code when you have ADA. You know you're
[22:23] not going to get around that. But I will
[22:24] tell you this. Tim did Tim
[22:27] loved Carmel. He loved the old buildings
[22:29] in here. And we had many a negotiation,
[22:32] you know, uh, well, Neil, if we put a
[22:35] 5-ft circle in this bathroom, the
[22:36] bathroom's toast, right? And I don't
[22:38] want to see the bathrooms go. So, let's
[22:40] let's work this out. How can you make
[22:42] this door wider? Can you make this
[22:43] opening bigger? And so Tim worked with
[22:46] us on everything to get as close to ADA
[22:48] as we could, but he had the power at
[22:50] that time to say, "I'm not going to
[22:51] force the whole thing on you."
[22:53] Inspectors today do not. So, I don't
[22:55] want that laid on on the current
[22:56] inspection group. they would never get
[22:58] away with what Tim did. But Tim saved
[23:00] Carmel to a great extent. So the only
[23:04] thing that um
[23:06] I find really kind of Oh, by the way, we
[23:08] have new information that was just given
[23:10] to us 5 minutes before the meeting uh in
[23:14] a phone call. And uh I don't know if the
[23:17] information is solid enough for me to
[23:18] say in this meeting, but we have not
[23:21] been informed of everything. And this
[23:23] information comes from the Propheta
[23:25] family. We did not have time to get it
[23:27] together for this meeting, but I def it
[23:29] it is going to make a difference in the
[23:31] way people see what happened over this
[23:32] project. So I would like to get that
[23:35] together and submit this to the HRB
[23:37] perhaps in written form if that's the
[23:39] way to do it because we just don't have
[23:42] it right now. But just to give you an
[23:44] idea and this may or may not be true.
[23:47] What we have heard is that Espironza
[23:49] retained the ownership of the name forge
[23:52] in the forest and it has always been
[23:55] under the ownership of Espironza. We did
[23:58] not know this or hear this. There's
[24:00] several other things uh that are
[24:01] connected to that. So I don't want to
[24:03] get into those without knowing exactly
[24:05] what they are, but we'll we'll get this
[24:06] to you guys in a letter. Okay. Thank you
[24:09] very much for your time. And if there is
[24:11] any way for any of the the parts, the
[24:13] pieces, you know, we can't find the
[24:15] anvil.
[24:18] Boy, somebody really did care about our
[24:19] history, didn't they? We've heard that
[24:21] it may be worth a lot of money. Maybe
[24:23] they just saw it as a good way to get
[24:24] rich quick. Wow. Really hurts you guys.
[24:28] It I think more and more the oldtime
[24:32] residents of Caramel are just feeling
[24:34] they don't matter. You know, they're not
[24:36] heard. But I did feel that you you did,
[24:38] sir. And I want to thank you for that
[24:40] and everybody else who helped with this.
[24:42] Thank you very much.
[24:44] » Thank you very much.
[24:46] [clears throat]
[24:52] » Hello all. Um
[24:56] well I feel like a Johnny come lately in
[24:58] all of this and and really became aware
[25:00] of what was going on when uh several
[25:04] residents started calling me to say have
[25:06] you seen what's happened at the forge?
[25:08] And you know, you see the bulldozer in
[25:10] there and everything's gone. Um, and and
[25:13] the the restaurant part is in studs and
[25:17] everyone was so alarmed. Um, so then I
[25:21] started looking at at what was going on
[25:23] and was uh met with Janet Alarmo, the
[25:27] manager um wife of uh Justin Codley and
[25:32] uh
[25:34] and she, you know, we went back and
[25:36] found that um Meg Clovis had said uh it
[25:39] was not salvageable, that too much had
[25:41] been done to it, etc.
[25:43] And um and I get that the building
[25:45] itself was in terrible shape and um that
[25:48] was a problem, but I didn't feel like uh
[25:51] enough weight had been given to Francis
[25:53] Whitaker and the name that he is. And I
[25:56] guess Katherine, you were uh interested
[25:58] in that as well. Um and the fact that
[26:02] this was the forge in the forest and
[26:03] what Janet told me was that that the
[26:06] former owners asked that they not call
[26:08] it forge in the forest. Uh but now
[26:11] that's in question. I'm not sure what
[26:13] happened there, but it is the forge in
[26:15] the forest. And um and when I met with
[26:19] Chris Mitchell several months before
[26:22] uh and knew that they Esparonza had
[26:25] bought the property, I said, you know,
[26:27] he said it's not historic. And I said,
[26:29] well, you may not call the building
[26:31] historic, but I said this is a historic
[26:34] site. This is where Francis Whitaker, a
[26:36] historic figure, did his work. And this
[26:39] is where he created a lot of the work
[26:42] that goes on that that's on buildings in
[26:45] Carmeill by the Sea. So, uh I said that
[26:48] that's something that really has to be
[26:50] protected. In my meeting with uh Janet,
[26:54] I found out that they had no plans to
[26:56] keep the forge at the unit at the place
[26:59] there. I asked about the back of the uh
[27:03] bar as well, which was a lovely wooden
[27:06] piece. I don't know if you remember. Uh
[27:08] that was taken by the former owners. Uh
[27:10] because
[27:12] they the new owners said, "You can take
[27:14] whatever you want, basically." So, they
[27:17] took it. Uh and I said, "Well, what's
[27:19] happened with the tools and the anvil?"
[27:21] I didn't realize the anvil was missing
[27:23] at that point. I'm not sure Janet knew
[27:25] that the anvil was missing. And she
[27:27] said, "Well, we don't want it." She
[27:29] said, 'It doesn't go with our decor.
[27:33] It's going to be light, she said. So,
[27:36] uh, at that point, I became somewhat
[27:39] alarmed what would happen to the forge.
[27:42] And so, I talked to Thomas Hood and, uh,
[27:46] uh, Katherine and a number of people.
[27:49] Uh, I even asked Dale if he would build
[27:52] something to put the forge in like at
[27:55] the back patio of of the Heritage
[27:57] Society or something like that or in in
[27:59] the park, you know, there. Um, and I
[28:02] guess Dale had actually asked if the
[28:04] Carmel Heritage uh no Carmel uh what is
[28:09] it the uh Hienda Carmel in Carmel Valley
[28:12] would take it. And that made me upset
[28:14] because I thought that's out of Carmel,
[28:16] you know, that I'd rather have it there
[28:17] than no no place. But it's it's out of
[28:20] Caramel. I think it should be in Carmel.
[28:22] So, uh, and I had suggested maybe
[28:24] Flanders Mansion, you know, could we
[28:26] make that into a Carmel museum? Um, as a
[28:30] as another idea that I mean, there must
[28:33] be some place we can put it in Carmel.
[28:34] So, the city is storing it on a
[28:38] temporary basis, I think, right across
[28:40] the street in those steel, you know,
[28:43] those parts in the Vista Lobos area. Um
[28:47] but but I sure hope we can find some
[28:50] place for it if so if we can't have it
[28:53] at the forge. And so there were three
[28:55] things I asked Janet for. One was uh
[28:59] when you call it corner market or
[29:00] whatever you want to call it. I mean we
[29:02] already have two corner markets and it's
[29:04] not really a market. It's a restaurant
[29:06] but anyway uh whatever they want to call
[29:08] it to put it underneath in smaller print
[29:12] at the Village Forge because that's
[29:14] where it is. It's at the Village Forge.
[29:17] Um, she did not commit to that. Uh, I
[29:21] asked them to at least put a plaque up
[29:23] within view of the public [laughter]
[29:27] that explains that this was the village
[29:29] forge and the Francis Whitaker and the
[29:32] dates. And I thought HRB could probably
[29:34] help them with that. The wording on that
[29:37] plaque. She agreed to that. Um, I asked
[29:41] that they keep the forge at the site and
[29:45] she did not agree with that and that was
[29:48] a stronger no. I suggested that possibly
[29:51] right inside, you know, where the u
[29:55] uh onipro street where the um
[29:59] garage is, the garage uh doors that they
[30:03] make that folding out like barn doors
[30:06] and put it right in there. Thomas Hood
[30:08] thought it would take about a 3x5 foot
[30:10] space, which isn't much um for the
[30:13] forge, and that could be kind of
[30:15] separate from the from the restaurant
[30:17] essentially. I guess there's some
[30:19] electrical equipment in there, so I
[30:21] don't know. But she said, "Well, we've
[30:22] already made our plans and we have our
[30:25] where we're putting our walls and so
[30:26] forth." Um, and anyway, that would be
[30:30] perfect because then it could be closed
[30:32] up when the restaurant was closed,
[30:33] opened up when the restaurant was open,
[30:35] and people even right on the street
[30:37] could see it. And if there was a plaque
[30:38] there to explain what it was and it was
[30:40] Francis Whitaker, I think that would be
[30:41] ideal. But I haven't gotten too far with
[30:44] that idea, but I'll keep pushing.
[30:46] Um,
[30:48] so I I think it's uh I think there were
[30:52] a number of circumstances that happened
[30:55] to fall together one after another after
[30:57] another that created this problem. And I
[31:01] think it's really a shame that we didn't
[31:03] uh address this initially and find out
[31:06] what we really needed to do to save this
[31:08] in one form or another. Um the new
[31:11] owners, yes, they got permission to do
[31:14] whatever they wanted, so we can't fault
[31:16] them. Uh they can do whatever they want.
[31:18] But um but this was this was a really
[31:21] important place in Carmel and it had the
[31:24] feel of Carmel and it was wonderful. And
[31:27] uh there are a lot of people who are not
[31:29] here today that were very upset about
[31:31] it. They hate coming to meetings. You
[31:33] know how that goes. So uh anyway, I
[31:37] guess I hope that you can carry forward
[31:39] with helping this process be the best
[31:42] one it can be given where we stand at
[31:44] this point. Thank you.
[31:46] » Thank you.
[31:50] [clears throat]
[32:00] Good afternoon, Chair Croman, members of
[32:01] the HRB. My name is Cindy Lloyd. In
[32:04] preface, I will say Francis Whitaker was
[32:06] a family friend. I knew him. I used to
[32:08] go to the forge and watch him fashion
[32:10] things and out of metal with his hammer.
[32:13] And the thing I remember most about him
[32:15] was his hat. It was a little very short
[32:19] little black hat with a little brim. And
[32:21] when I saw photos of him recently, I
[32:22] said, "Yeah, that's that." Well, anyway,
[32:24] [clears throat]
[32:25] um I have a request. May I indulge in
[32:28] your generosity by granting me a bit
[32:30] more time to share my comments and read
[32:33] excerpts from Julie Went's letter as she
[32:35] is out of the country? If so, I shall
[32:38] start with the front page story from the
[32:41] October 29, 1999 issue of the Pine Cone.
[32:45] Thank you.
[32:48] And it is this
[33:01] if you can see it.
[33:05] » I'm not sure what you're showing us.
[33:07] It's a little bit hard to see from here.
[33:08] » It's probably hard to see from there,
[33:09] but anyway over the forage, right?
[33:12] » Yeah. this picture of Francis at his
[33:13] anvil and the um
[33:18] now I'll go back to my written statement
[33:21] [laughter]
[33:23] [clears throat]
[33:25] below a photo of Francis Whitaker is the
[33:27] headline iron yielded to powerful man's
[33:30] touch.
[33:34] He had died just days before, reportedly
[33:36] [clears throat]
[33:37] with his hammer beside him. In 1922, at
[33:41] the age of 15, Francis Whitaker told his
[33:43] father that he wanted to end his formal
[33:45] education and start working. Quote, "I
[33:49] had always been big for my age and had
[33:52] always enjoyed working with my hands,
[33:54] and even though I was young, I could fix
[33:56] things, make things, and enjoyed drawing
[33:58] and mechanics." End quote. Francis spent
[34:01] a year working with Samuel Yelen in his
[34:03] Philadelphia blacksmith shop before
[34:06] traveling to Germany to work with Julius
[34:09] Shramm in Berlin. Both eminent
[34:12] decorative blacksmiths influence
[34:15] Francis's professional life. In 1926, at
[34:19] age 18, his father gave him $35 and a
[34:23] one-way train ticket to California to
[34:26] find his fortune. Visiting a friend in
[34:28] Carmel, he knew he'd arrived in a
[34:30] special place. Looking for a job, he was
[34:33] advised to see Carmel's master builder,
[34:36] MJ Murphy. Hired, he soon oversaw work
[34:39] in Murphy's iron shop for the next seven
[34:41] years. His decorative iron work can be
[34:44] found throughout Carmel. While he
[34:46] undertook a variety of backs blacksmith
[34:49] jobs, he never shot a horse.
[34:52] Following the end of World War II,
[34:55] quote, "Caramel began to suffer from
[34:57] what I called growing pains. Carmemell,
[34:59] one of those incredibly beautiful
[35:01] places, was about to be invaded by the
[35:04] outside world." End quote. He and many
[35:07] other residents were becoming worried
[35:09] about the future of the community. Thus,
[35:11] Francis became involved in politics.
[35:15] Quote, "Blacksmiths by their very nature
[35:17] are stubborn, independent, fearless,
[35:20] thick-skinned, bullheaded, determined,
[35:23] and they don't like to be crowded, so
[35:25] they make perfect politicians." End
[35:28] quote. Francis served on the city
[35:30] council for 11 years, helping to develop
[35:33] the first master plan. involved in
[35:36] conservation activities. He was
[35:38] president of the league preserving Point
[35:40] Lobos for a state park as well as
[35:43] preserving the Carmel River mouth beach.
[35:46] Quote, I just couldn't stand by and see
[35:49] development of these beautiful areas to
[35:52] face the beauty of nature. They should
[35:54] be available to be enjoyed by all, not
[35:57] just by those who could afford to buy
[35:59] them." End quote.
[36:01] Following Francis's love for skiing and
[36:04] the beauty of unspoiled aspen, Francis
[36:07] loaded all his blacksmith equipment and
[36:09] moved. Thus ended Francis Whitaker's
[36:13] 37 years
[36:15] in his forge in the forest, gone, but
[36:18] now forgotten.
[36:20] One of the things I I question
[36:24] is if Francis took all of his equipment
[36:27] to Aspen,
[36:29] what is left behind, was it really
[36:31] Francis's? And um in in this book from
[36:36] which I quoted, this is a book that
[36:38] Francis wrote
[36:40] and it's really wonderful reading. It's
[36:43] very easy reading. Um he he said that he
[36:47] hired a man with a truck to take
[36:49] everything in his blacksmith shop and
[36:51] then he loaded up his own truck and
[36:52] left. So I I really question whether
[36:56] those things are indeed Francis's, but I
[36:58] don't know. So that ends my my little
[37:02] story. But from Julie went who was in
[37:05] Paris and she sent me a text and said,
[37:08] "Cindy, if you're going to the meeting,
[37:09] would you mind reading some of my
[37:11] comments in the record?" And I'm sure
[37:13] you've all read them. So, I just picked
[37:14] out a few. The Forge in the Forest
[37:17] blacksmith shop began 100 years ago in
[37:19] Carmel by the Sea, but the city is in
[37:22] danger of losing this history. My
[37:25] objective is to bring awareness to the
[37:26] Carmel community and future generations
[37:29] of residents and visitors of Francis
[37:32] Whitaker's Forge in the Forest and their
[37:34] contributions to Carmel's early
[37:36] beginnings.
[37:38] The forge building itself may not be
[37:40] historic because of alterations,
[37:43] but there should be an alternate way to
[37:45] recognize this one-of-a-kind historic
[37:47] contribution to Carmel. Francis Whitaker
[37:51] is eligible for the California Register
[37:53] under criterion 2 for person.
[37:57] The original forge building has lost
[37:59] integrity and cannot be dee deemed
[38:01] historic. The city should now be
[38:04] considering other means of commemorating
[38:06] the contribution and historic
[38:08] significance of Francis Whitaker's forge
[38:10] in the forest. A commemorative plaque is
[38:14] an option with the permission of the new
[38:16] restaurant operators of the corner
[38:18] market and Mr. Pastor who is the owner
[38:21] of the property. A commemorative plaque
[38:23] could be displayed on the site. the HRB,
[38:27] the city, the owners of the corner
[38:29] market, and interested Carmel residents
[38:32] could develop what the plaque might look
[38:34] like, as well as the language on the
[38:36] plaque and possibly a photo of Francis
[38:39] at work.
[38:41] And this is my last little thing. Now is
[38:43] the time to honor Francis Whitaker, for
[38:46] without him, the forge would not have
[38:48] become significant. Thank you.
[38:52] » Thank you very much.
[38:53] » You're very welcome.
[38:59] Seeing no one else in the room. Shelby,
[39:00] do we have anyone online?
[39:02] » We do. Yes. Um Ian Martin.
[39:04] [clears throat]
[39:06] » Good evening everybody. Um I am Ian
[39:10] Martin. I'm a former planning
[39:11] commissioner and a resident and u and a
[39:14] student of Carmel by the seas history.
[39:16] Uh, I want to give Neil Cruz a great
[39:18] deal of credit for the work that he did
[39:21] to maintain the historical feel of the
[39:25] Forge in the Forest after it became a
[39:27] restaurant. You know, when you're
[39:29] sitting there having a drink or a meal,
[39:32] you had a sense that you were in a place
[39:34] that had a had a a deep history to it.
[39:37] And I think there's some good news here
[39:39] in that I don't see
[39:43] why it's too late, why you could not
[39:45] return to something in line with what
[39:48] Neil originally did. In fact, Neil's
[39:50] right there in the room. Neil could
[39:52] participate in the restoration uh to
[39:55] bring it back to give the place
[39:59] uh that to return to that place a sense
[40:02] of the deep history that that property
[40:05] embodies. And you [clears throat] know,
[40:07] and I can't think of any reason why they
[40:09] couldn't also call it the forge in the
[40:11] forest if um you know, everything's a
[40:14] negotiation. I mean, I you know, why not
[40:16] try and acquire the name back and call
[40:18] it the Forge in the Forest again? So,
[40:21] you could retain that sense of history
[40:25] um as as the place, you know, as as the
[40:28] place once was under Neil's creativity
[40:31] and sensitivity to our village's
[40:33] history. So hopefully that could
[40:36] actually happen. Um, beyond just having
[40:38] a plaque, which you know, a lot of
[40:40] people don't read plaques, right? But
[40:42] when you went to the original Forge of
[40:43] the Forest restaurant, you had a sense
[40:45] you were sitting there at a historical
[40:47] place, you understood that there was a
[40:48] backstory there that you were aware of
[40:51] because they had the forge there in the
[40:54] room. Um, and then also the ambiance of
[40:57] the place, the rusticity of the place,
[40:59] all lent a strong reinforcement of the
[41:03] sense of of that history. So, it's not
[41:06] too late. All those things could come to
[41:09] pass and Neil could even take the reigns
[41:11] and and make it a reality as he once
[41:13] did. Um, that would be amazing and a and
[41:16] a a demonstration of the love for the
[41:19] village. Um,
[41:21] this also speaks to, you know, I
[41:23] appreciate that all the all the the
[41:26] mechanical factors of notification in
[41:29] the municipal code were met, I suppose,
[41:32] but when you're dealing with something
[41:34] like this, it really should have come
[41:36] before the historic resources board um
[41:39] as a matter of default, right? when
[41:42] you're dealing with something that is so
[41:44] important um you know as as Francis
[41:48] Whitaker and his legacy in the village I
[41:50] mean here's a guy who had an obituary in
[41:52] the New York Times when he died so you
[41:56] know we should be defaulting to the
[41:58] historic resources board to make sure
[42:00] that everybody is aware of what's
[42:02] happening when we are dealing with
[42:04] historic properties or or or history or
[42:07] or properties that may not technically
[42:10] meet the letter of the offer histo but
[42:13] there should be [gasps]
[42:15] uh a plain in view discussion in front
[42:17] of the public about how the city's
[42:19] arriving at these discussions um just
[42:21] beyond the perform steps. So anyway in
[42:25] closing um thank you all for giving this
[42:28] thing a a proper uh airing and again
[42:32] it's not too late. Thank you. Thank you
[42:38] Charles.
[43:02] I'm mute.
[43:05] unmute.
[43:11] » Charles, if you're muted, uh we cannot
[43:13] hear you. Please unmute.
[43:17] » Good afternoon. Um
[43:20] uh this is uh Chuck Nagarian. I'm a
[43:22] resident of of Carmel. I really uh
[43:26] appreciate the hearing today.
[43:29] Um, I I'm I'm I guess my my
[43:34] guess my my main concern here is I'm
[43:36] baffled
[43:38] by the over- the-counter process that
[43:41] occurred here. I think that is the
[43:43] genesis of the problems we have here
[43:46] today. And um I I was really encouraged
[43:50] by what uh what Neil presented and uh
[43:55] and also what Ian Martin's um
[43:58] recommendations for for restoration. I
[44:01] think that's that's the key here. Um
[44:05] this is this is too important of a site.
[44:08] And um I'm not sure why the HRB was left
[44:12] out of this, but I I'm I'm noting that
[44:15] the HRB seems to be left out of a lot of
[44:18] key things,
[44:20] including other other permitting
[44:21] processes, and I'm I'm encouraging you
[44:24] to be involved as much as you can and
[44:26] express
[44:28] express your your expertise.
[44:31] Um, unfortunately, I don't think the
[44:32] city uh or or concerned residents know
[44:37] all the facts. I know I know I don't,
[44:39] but I know a lot of questions have been
[44:41] raised that are a little disconcerting.
[44:44] Uh, and I urge you, the city, uh, to to
[44:48] to sink answers to them. Um, I think
[44:52] it's really important understand
[44:53] everything that's been going on. Um, and
[44:57] and I think the over-the-c counter
[44:59] process itself,
[45:01] uh, you know, facilitated facilitated
[45:03] where we are today, uh, which isn't a
[45:06] very good place. I think it's somewhat
[45:07] embarrassing, frankly. And, um, I'm
[45:11] sorry that I'm sorry that it happened.
[45:13] Um, I I think anybody with half a brain
[45:16] knows and feels the the historicity of
[45:20] the of the forge in the forest. and um
[45:24] and and I hope you take uh uh Ian's
[45:28] recommendation at heart in terms of
[45:30] moving in a restoration
[45:32] manner. I don't think anything but the
[45:36] name forging the forest will work at
[45:39] that property. I think everything else
[45:41] is nonsense. Anyway, thank you for your
[45:45] time and thank you for for your interest
[45:47] in looking into this. [clears throat]
[45:50] » Thank you very much. Anyone
[45:56] else?
[45:57] » That's everyone.
[45:58] » Okay. Any other comments from the
[46:01] public? [clears throat] Hearing? None.
[46:02] We'll close it back up and um ask the
[46:07] board if they have any comments or
[46:08] issues that they'd like to discuss. I
[46:10] have a question.
[46:11] » Yes, ma'am.
[46:12] » My question is for Neil. You had
[46:14] indicated that at some point you and the
[46:17] owner had gone shopping for items that
[46:19] were welded to the forge. So those
[46:21] things were not Francis Whitickers. They
[46:24] were things that you purchased.
[46:25] » You mean the the implements?
[46:27] » Can you come to the Yes. microphone,
[46:28] please?
[46:29] » Sorry.
[46:32] » Yes. All All there was really
[46:34] [clears throat] was the the hearth which
[46:37] the anvil sat on and then the anvil
[46:40] itself and the railing around it.
[46:43] » Okay. Thank you.
[46:44] » And so uh Dan wanted to it was partly
[46:49] for safety reasons. He wanted there to
[46:51] be a fire in that, but didn't want kids
[46:53] or something. So, he thought he would
[46:55] get all these rusty old metal elements.
[46:59] And then he brought in our favorite
[47:01] welder and we just spent the day holding
[47:04] them and welding them in place.
[47:05] » Made making it look like it was still in
[47:07] use.
[47:08] » Yeah.
[47:08] » But it wasn't Francis Luc.
[47:10] » No, most of that stuff we got at flea at
[47:12] flea markets at Sanon Batista.
[47:14] » Great. Thank you, Neil. Thank you very
[47:16] much.
[47:17] » Thank you,
[47:17] » Neil. Do you mind if I ask a question as
[47:19] well? Do you know about the forge being
[47:21] relocated within the room?
[47:24] » Uh, excuse me. Could you say it one more
[47:25] time, Kath?
[47:26] » Do you know about the forge's relocation
[47:28] within the room
[47:30] from
[47:31] » One more time? I'm sorry because my
[47:33] [laughter] hearing is not good.
[47:34] » Uh, do you have knowledge of the forge
[47:37] being relocated from one corner of the
[47:39] room to another, like the back of the
[47:41] building to the front?
[47:43] » Uh, no. the the the hearth and the anvil
[47:46] was always in that location throughout
[47:48] the our experience with the project to
[47:50] my knowledge. It was always right in
[47:53] that. I I believe I remember as a young
[47:56] child my father would always take me to
[47:59] watch Francis Whitaker do his metal work
[48:02] and uh my memory of that is that the uh
[48:05] hearth and the anvil were in the place
[48:08] where it is now or where it just
[48:10] recently was all that time there was an
[48:15] earlier forge in the forest. Okay. Which
[48:17] is down near uh
[48:21] uh you know the supermarket and sand um
[48:25] and uh
[48:29] just a second here. So uh right next to
[48:32] Bruno's market you have the Sandpiper
[48:35] and you used to be able to look up and
[48:37] see the ceiling of the Sandpiper and it
[48:40] was dark wood and all this old wood and
[48:42] old framing. That was this the the
[48:45] ceiling of the first forge in the
[48:47] forest. And I was informed by a
[48:49] historian one day. He sat down with Dan
[48:51] and I and he said, "Yeah." He said, "Uh,
[48:54] so there's the story from Francis that
[48:56] he was out there and John Steinbeck was
[48:59] sitting down getting drunk and Lincoln
[49:01] Stefins comes by and he says, "Is that
[49:03] John?" He says, "Yeah." So he says, "I
[49:06] got a book he needs to write." Lincoln
[49:08] Stephins went over there and sat with
[49:10] Steinbeck for about an hour. That's how
[49:13] you got the grapes of wrath in that
[49:16] conversation.
[49:22] » Thanks very much for that.
[49:23] » Is there anything else?
[49:26] » Any other comments from the board or any
[49:28] thoughts?
[49:30] » Well, this is a this is a tough one
[49:32] really. Um, I also have the feeling like
[49:34] we're dealing with something similar to
[49:37] the horses out of the barn, which makes
[49:40] it very difficult uh to know what the
[49:44] right the right approach should be.
[49:48] Um, I'm reminded of a of a situation uh
[49:52] in my former city, Capola,
[49:56] where um a small cabin that had been
[49:59] part of the original
[50:02] um development by the founder of Capola,
[50:05] a small cabin was found uh at some
[50:09] distance from city hall and um the
[50:13] owners wanted to remove it from the
[50:15] property and do something house. And so
[50:18] that cabin was brought uh down to the
[50:23] city so that when people walk from the
[50:26] parking lot behind city hall, you're
[50:29] forced to go right in front of the
[50:31] cabin. And inside it was opened uh with
[50:36] larger windows. You can't go inside, but
[50:40] a a historic display was set up to
[50:44] resemble the interior of a small
[50:48] one room house. And in back um they had
[50:52] a washroom place where you changed your
[50:54] clothes or used the bathroom. It was
[50:56] just a outouse but a long narrow one. So
[51:00] people were not only forced to, but they
[51:03] loved looking in the windows and seeing
[51:06] what life was like in the 1920s.
[51:10] And uh you know, we miss that here in
[51:12] Carmel. We're [clears throat] so busy uh
[51:14] looking at the architectural integrity
[51:17] and the style, but the history. Uh I I
[51:22] up the street from the Whitaker Forge
[51:25] uh just a block half a block away is um
[51:29] James Weaver Kitchens plumbing shop and
[51:33] it's part now of a real estate office.
[51:37] But if you just walk past it and look
[51:40] inside, you can see the original um form
[51:44] of the of the u plumbing business. And
[51:49] all of these men, the Whitakers, the uh
[51:52] K kitchens, the the men that Catelyn who
[51:55] was mentioned earlier, they all have a
[51:58] place in the story. And I took special
[52:00] note of what I I think I don't know
[52:04] which one of you said that Whitaker I
[52:06] think maybe you did. Uh
[52:09] I it Whitaker was on the council for 11
[52:11] years. So that counts for a lot. I mean,
[52:14] he put something of himself into that
[52:17] position. So all of this makes me think
[52:20] we you know we should have thought of
[52:22] this. I I have the date of a almost a
[52:25] year ago when the um planning director
[52:30] um asked you know uh the council not
[52:33] council the HRB to look at this issue
[52:37] and u
[52:40] it kind of passed through based on the
[52:43] fact that its integrity had been
[52:45] changed. But what about the site? You
[52:48] know, uh that's one of the parts of the
[52:50] National Register and the California
[52:52] Register and our own inventory that we
[52:55] tend to forget that a site is just as
[52:58] significant. It may not have the all the
[53:01] uh accutra months or however you say it
[53:04] of the original, but something important
[53:07] happened there. And these places like
[53:10] the forge are very few and far between.
[53:13] And if we only look at the architecture
[53:15] and say, well, you know, it's been all
[53:17] changed. That that to me I think we're
[53:21] leaving something out. So, I I think we
[53:24] need to do something to show off uh a
[53:27] man with Whitaker's talents and that we
[53:29] don't uh we don't we're sending uh the
[53:33] wrong signal if we don't do something uh
[53:36] to honor his memory and uh what he
[53:39] contributed to all the ornamental
[53:42] railings and uh iron work that we see
[53:45] throughout the city. So, I'm glad that a
[53:48] plaque is being suggested. I was very
[53:50] intrigued by Carol's comment about
[53:53] opening those doors on the street
[53:56] because I could see the little cabin in
[53:58] Capola right there as you walked by. You
[54:02] could have the forge in the tools and a
[54:05] photograph of Mr. Whitaker and I think
[54:08] it would draw people to the corner
[54:10] market or it wouldn't be an uh anything
[54:14] wrong with that. So that that's that's
[54:16] what my where my thinking is going right
[54:18] now. Any
[54:22] thoughts?
[54:25] » Yeah, I
[54:27] probably it's a cautionary tale a little
[54:29] bit. And it's not just this last um
[54:34] proposal and building permit that went
[54:36] through, but there was a lot of changes
[54:37] over time that made it lose its
[54:39] integrity. I do remember being in town
[54:42] um when I first came to Carmela and
[54:45] enjoying the general stores, the
[54:47] restaurant, and the beautiful little
[54:50] courtyard and the the the old bar and
[54:52] the in in the with the forge and the
[54:55] anvil all in that that space which was
[54:59] and having that indooroutdoor connection
[55:01] which was really I thought a beautiful
[55:03] part of that um
[55:05] scheme and restaurant. It made it really
[55:07] special. Um,
[55:09] and I think there were changes even
[55:11] subsequent to that. Like I think you
[55:12] know one of the things people may not
[55:14] understand that is that the historic
[55:16] resources board doesn't really have
[55:18] jurisdiction about the inside of
[55:20] buildings and I know the bar was removed
[55:22] for example that was quite an impressive
[55:25] piece of it. Um, you know, at this
[55:28] point, as as you mentioned, that the the
[55:31] horses have left the barn and and
[55:34] these folks have a have a building
[55:36] permit and we're lucky. You know,
[55:39] [snorts] Mr. Cogley is a wonderful chef
[55:42] and I'm sure it's going to be an amazing
[55:44] restaurant, which we'll all enjoy. Um
[55:47] but there is this certain lack of
[55:49] [clears throat] um consideration to the
[55:51] history of the place that
[55:54] probably should have been caught before.
[55:56] Um and I agreed more things should come
[55:58] to the HRV especially if there's if
[56:00] there's you know I think objectively you
[56:03] can you know they're sensitive and you
[56:05] know the town's sensitive about it. Um,
[56:10] I think the at this point a plaque or
[56:13] Carol's idea of a of having an exhibit
[56:16] behind those doors sounds really lovely.
[56:18] Um, I think having some marker of what
[56:21] it what it was in France is a is a is a
[56:24] great idea. Um, [clears throat]
[56:27] but in general, I think that is a piece
[56:29] of Carmel. I kind of understand the the
[56:32] how people feel so strongly about it is
[56:34] a piece of caramel that's kind of lost
[56:36] and I think it was lost as a
[56:41] you know sequentially it wasn't just one
[56:44] thing.
[56:46] » Yeah.
[56:47] So I think um you know we've there's a
[56:51] lot we can take away from this. Um I I
[56:53] would hesitate to say that the historic
[56:56] resources board was not made aware of
[56:57] this because through due process um the
[57:01] staff assessed the property and then um
[57:05] open it up for public comment and open
[57:07] up for HRB comment as they're supposed
[57:09] to um during that 10day period. And
[57:11] unfortunately or fortunately um you know
[57:14] there weren't significant issues raised
[57:16] at that point. I understand it's a very
[57:18] emotional um space for a lot of people,
[57:20] but I also understand that um Espironza,
[57:24] you know, entered into this project with
[57:25] a set of guidelines and rules that they
[57:27] felt were appropriate. And I think um
[57:29] you know, that's been pointed out a
[57:30] couple times. Um and so they shouldn't
[57:32] be penalized for that either. So I think
[57:35] in the future um I think I would just
[57:39] urge the public that if you see
[57:40] something like this happening that you
[57:43] really pay attention to the notification
[57:45] by the city about um you know your cons
[57:49] and and voice your concerns about it. I
[57:51] also agree that I think there's certain
[57:52] things that don't come to the HRB as a
[57:54] formal agenda item that probably should
[57:56] and so you know we as a group can talk
[57:59] about that and and maybe provide some
[58:02] additional guidance to the staff on what
[58:04] that looks like. Um and I think you know
[58:06] the the good news is the organizations
[58:08] agreed to a plaque which is important
[58:10] and certainly I I think the HRB and
[58:13] other members of the uh community are
[58:16] happy to help with writing that plaque.
[58:18] Um, but I think, you know, we're at the
[58:21] point where um this process is moving
[58:24] and it it's got to keep moving. And I I
[58:26] appreciate the staff um walking us
[58:28] through the timeline once again. I think
[58:30] that was very thorough and I do
[58:31] certainly do appreciate um the members
[58:33] of the public who spoke and um very
[58:35] eloquently talked about the issues that
[58:37] they felt were concerning. So, with
[58:40] that, I'd ask if there's any Yes, ma'am.
[58:43] » I don't know how many people have had
[58:45] experience ordering plaques, but I have.
[58:47] And Possibly
[58:49] not all of you know that you can
[58:51] actually have a photograph as part of
[58:53] the plaque. So it wouldn't have be a
[58:55] plaque for him with a just a picture of
[58:57] him next to it. It could be all be
[58:59] incorporated in that.
[59:02] » Yeah, I think there's some good options.
[59:04] Any other comments from the board?
[59:07] Okay, hearing none, we will move on to
[59:09] the next consent item
[59:15] public hearing. Yeah, sorry. To the
[59:16] public hearing um which is DR 25228 the
[59:19] Cypress in consideration of a
[59:22] determination of consistency with the
[59:24] secretary of the interior standards for
[59:26] a track one design review for exterior
[59:28] alterations and site improvements at the
[59:30] historic LA Riviera Hotel located in the
[59:33] northeast section northeast corner of
[59:35] Lincoln Street and 7th Avenue.
[59:45] Thank you.
[59:52] » Thank you, [snorts] chair. Uh, the
[59:54] Cypress in originally called um La La
[59:58] Libera was designed by Blaine and Olsen
[1:00:00] and was constructed in 1929 at the
[1:00:03] northeast corner of Lincoln and 7th.
[1:00:06] to anymore.
[1:00:08] » Blaine and Olsen had studied
[1:00:10] Mediterranean architecture in Spain and
[1:00:12] incorporated a clay tile roof, a
[1:00:15] three-story Moorish tower with a zigurat
[1:00:17] top and a courtyard into their hotel
[1:00:19] design.
[1:00:24] In 1949, the original 1929 building was
[1:00:27] expanded with an addition by significant
[1:00:29] architect Gardner Daly. The addition is
[1:00:32] located at the southwest corner of the
[1:00:33] property and is included in the period
[1:00:36] of significance which is 1929 through
[1:00:38] 1949.
[1:00:40] The property has been called the Cypress
[1:00:42] in since circa 1980.
[1:00:46] In 2002 2003 the hotel was again
[1:00:49] expanded to the north on a separate lot.
[1:00:52] The current project is limited to the
[1:00:54] original property not the north annex
[1:00:56] which you see circled in red there.
[1:01:01] Long recognized as a historic property,
[1:01:03] the Cypress Inn is listed on the city's
[1:01:06] uh historic inventory and register and
[1:01:09] has an active Mills Act contract.
[1:01:13] The building has numerous identified
[1:01:15] character-defining features, including
[1:01:17] the mission tile roof, the 7th Avenue
[1:01:20] courtyard with the hexagonal tiles and
[1:01:22] arcade, and steel casement windows, all
[1:01:24] of which are included in the current
[1:01:26] project scope of work slated for either
[1:01:29] repair or replacement.
[1:01:32] So, the current project proposes roof
[1:01:34] repairs, window replacements, the
[1:01:37] installation of a courtyard ADA ramp,
[1:01:39] courtyard tile replacements, and new
[1:01:41] courtyard stair tiles.
[1:01:45] The applicant proposes to replace 70
[1:01:48] non-original steel windows, which
[1:01:50] according to the window survey are
[1:01:52] either rusted, difficult, or unsafe to
[1:01:54] operate, and they permit water
[1:01:55] intrusion. The proposed new windows
[1:01:58] which will be installed within existing
[1:02:00] openings with no change to opening
[1:02:01] dimensions will be divided light
[1:02:04] casement steel windows by Jensen
[1:02:06] Janisole.
[1:02:10] So the applicant proposes to remove the
[1:02:12] existing mission tile roof and to wash,
[1:02:15] repair and store the tiles during the
[1:02:17] period of time in which any areas of dry
[1:02:19] rot will be repaired and a new
[1:02:21] waterproof underllayment installed. The
[1:02:23] old tiles will then be reinstalled. If
[1:02:26] any broken tiles need to be replaced on
[1:02:28] a street facing elevation, old tiles
[1:02:30] will be salvaged from a less visible
[1:02:32] area of the roof and new Redland clay
[1:02:35] tile will be used to fill in the salvage
[1:02:37] tile spots.
[1:02:40] The south courtyard features a
[1:02:42] distinctive arcade with mission tiles
[1:02:44] laid directly on tree branches. A
[1:02:47] structural engineer completed an
[1:02:49] evaluation and did not recommend a
[1:02:50] waterproof underllayment for this
[1:02:52] feature due to aesthetic impacts. The
[1:02:55] structural engineer concluded that the
[1:02:56] tree limbs are sound and recommends
[1:02:58] reinspection every six years.
[1:03:03] For the courtyard, the existing
[1:03:05] hexagonal tiles, as described by the
[1:03:07] applicant, are deteriorated beyond
[1:03:08] repair, and they're mixed with areas of
[1:03:10] non-original square tiles, resulting in
[1:03:13] an inconsistent appearance throughout
[1:03:14] the courtyard. The applicant proposes to
[1:03:17] replace all existing tiles with new
[1:03:19] hexagonal tiles to match the original
[1:03:21] condition.
[1:03:24] The project plans also reflect a new ADA
[1:03:27] ramp to provide access from 7th Street,
[1:03:29] 7th Avenue, excuse me. The proposed ramp
[1:03:32] will feature a square tile with a center
[1:03:34] medallion pattern. A new planter will be
[1:03:37] installed directly east of the ramp,
[1:03:39] topped with a metal handrail.
[1:03:43] Lastly, the project includes adding
[1:03:45] satio tile to the concrete stairs that
[1:03:48] lead from the east side of the courtyard
[1:03:49] up to the second story of the east wing.
[1:03:54] The city contracted with a professional
[1:03:57] uh historian to evaluate the project for
[1:03:59] consistency with the st the secretary of
[1:04:01] the interior standards for
[1:04:02] rehabilitation.
[1:04:04] Miss Clovis found the project as
[1:04:06] proposed to be consistent with the
[1:04:08] relevant standards 1 2 4 5 6 and 9 which
[1:04:12] I'll review individually.
[1:04:15] Uh the board also has a little visual
[1:04:18] handout on the standards which is
[1:04:20] available at the front of the room and
[1:04:21] will be posted online. It's simply a
[1:04:23] little visual cheat sheet of our 10
[1:04:25] standards. We'll be going through the
[1:04:27] relevant ones here.
[1:04:30] So the project is consistent with
[1:04:31] standard one because the historic use as
[1:04:34] a hotel is not changing and standard one
[1:04:37] is all about use.
[1:04:41] The project is consistent with standard
[1:04:42] two um which is all about preserving
[1:04:45] historic character because one the
[1:04:48] existing roof [clears throat] tiles will
[1:04:49] be cleaned and reinstalled rather than
[1:04:51] replaced. two, the hodge podge of
[1:04:53] courtyard tiles in the non-original um
[1:04:56] lighter grout color no longer reflect
[1:04:58] the original 1929 tile design and may
[1:05:02] therefore be restored. And then three,
[1:05:05] the steel casement windows are
[1:05:06] deteriorated beyond repair and the
[1:05:08] replacement windows will be
[1:05:10] undistinguishable from the existing.
[1:05:14] Uh moving to standard five um which
[1:05:17] talks about how distinct features uh
[1:05:19] should be kept. the project is
[1:05:21] consistent um excuse me number four
[1:05:24] which speaks to how previous changes can
[1:05:27] become significant in their own right.
[1:05:29] So in this case the hotel's 1949 edition
[1:05:33] has acquired historic significance uh
[1:05:35] was designed by gardener daily and
[1:05:38] recorded in the DPR form as significant.
[1:05:41] So the roof work occurring at that
[1:05:43] portion of the building follows the
[1:05:44] preservation standards um and is
[1:05:47] appropriate. Standard five um retaining
[1:05:51] distinct features um character-defining
[1:05:54] roof tiles will be preserved. The
[1:05:56] existing windows will be replaced in
[1:05:58] kind and the original hexagonal
[1:06:01] courtyard tiles will be replicated um
[1:06:03] with the same dimensions. So the
[1:06:05] courtyard will be brought back to its
[1:06:07] historic appearance. Uh lastly, while
[1:06:10] the removal of decorative tiles at the
[1:06:13] base of one of the arcade support
[1:06:16] columns will need to be removed to
[1:06:18] accommodate the ADA ramp, those tiles
[1:06:20] will be saved and used as needed in the
[1:06:22] future for repairs elsewhere, such as
[1:06:24] these Lincoln Street entry steps.
[1:06:28] Uh standard six speaks to the importance
[1:06:31] of repairing before moving to a
[1:06:34] replacement plan.
[1:06:36] » [clears throat]
[1:06:36] » The project is consistent with this
[1:06:37] standard because uh as previously
[1:06:39] described, the roof work will follow the
[1:06:42] guidance included in preservation brief
[1:06:44] 30, which speaks to how to deal with
[1:06:47] clay tile roofs and the windows will be
[1:06:50] replaced in kind and the new courtyard
[1:06:52] tile will be matching the old.
[1:06:56] Uh standard nine, um the the new ADA
[1:07:00] ramp is a code compliant accessibility
[1:07:03] feature. The standards recommend
[1:07:05] minimizing the impact of accessibility
[1:07:07] ramps by installing them on secondary
[1:07:10] elevations or by screening them with
[1:07:12] planting. And in this case, the proposed
[1:07:14] ramp is both located on a secondary
[1:07:16] elevation and is proposed to be screened
[1:07:19] from the courtyard by a white concrete
[1:07:21] landscaped planter. The new ramp will
[1:07:24] feature square tiles with a central
[1:07:26] medallion which is compatible yet
[1:07:28] differentiated from the historic
[1:07:30] hexagonal tile pattern. Um likewise the
[1:07:33] square satio tiles proposed for the east
[1:07:36] stairs are compatible yet
[1:07:38] differentiated.
[1:07:42] So, the Cypress Inn is located within
[1:07:44] the downtown conservation district,
[1:07:46] which has the highest concentration of
[1:07:48] historic buildings in the city. And the
[1:07:51] municipal code requires that the
[1:07:53] historic resources board makes certain
[1:07:55] findings for all projects um on historic
[1:07:58] sites in the conservation district
[1:08:00] district, which this is. Uh several of
[1:08:03] the findings overlap with those
[1:08:04] standards that we just reviewed. You can
[1:08:06] see in green kind of how the standards
[1:08:09] and these conservation district findings
[1:08:12] overlap. And then additionally, the
[1:08:14] board must find that the proposed
[1:08:16] project is consistent with the
[1:08:18] established design context of the
[1:08:20] conservation district and will not
[1:08:22] adversely affect any historic resource
[1:08:24] on the project site or on adjacent
[1:08:26] sites.
[1:08:29] the historic uh Cocker building directly
[1:08:32] east of the Cypress Inn, built in 1927
[1:08:35] and designed by Blaine Olsen, the same
[1:08:37] architectural team that designed the
[1:08:39] Cypress Inn, features many similar
[1:08:41] features such as the decorative tile
[1:08:43] work, steel windows, and clay roof
[1:08:45] tiles.
[1:08:47] Historic buildings on uh Dolores that
[1:08:49] back up to the Cypress in are also 1920s
[1:08:53] Spanish style buildings. The proposed
[1:08:56] project um as we've reviewed complies
[1:08:59] with the standards but it also complies
[1:09:00] with the relevant commercial design
[1:09:02] guidelines including guideline 8.1 which
[1:09:06] says basic elements of design integrity
[1:09:08] and consistency throughout each building
[1:09:10] should be preserved or restored.
[1:09:13] Guideline C which says windows design
[1:09:16] should be consistent with the original
[1:09:17] building concept or with its
[1:09:19] architecture. And lastly, guideline E,
[1:09:22] building materials should respect the
[1:09:24] traditions already established in the
[1:09:27] commercial district.
[1:09:31] Staff is recommending you adopt a
[1:09:33] resolution um finding the proposed
[1:09:35] project consistent with the established
[1:09:38] design context of the downtown
[1:09:39] conservation district and consistent
[1:09:41] with the standards for for
[1:09:43] rehabilitation.
[1:09:44] That concludes my presentation. I
[1:09:47] believe the architect is online for any
[1:09:49] [clears throat] questions.
[1:09:50] » Super. Thank you. Any questions for the
[1:09:52] staff before we um open it up?
[1:09:59] » I I do have one question about the
[1:10:01] courtyard tiles. Well, actually two
[1:10:02] questions. Is there currently an ADA
[1:10:04] entrance ramp entrance?
[1:10:07] » I will defer to the architect to
[1:10:09] describe how the current
[1:10:12] » Entrance is not ADA accessible.
[1:10:14] » Okay. And then um under standard nine,
[1:10:17] the courtyard tiles being replaced
[1:10:19] rather than
[1:10:21] salvaged and things like that. So we're
[1:10:24] wholesalingly replacing
[1:10:26] historic tiles with non-historic tiles
[1:10:29] that look the same.
[1:10:31] » That's right.
[1:10:33] » But we don't normally do that.
[1:10:35] We usually differentiate We usually
[1:10:37] differentiate between old and new.
[1:10:40] » If it Yes. If it is a new feature, a new
[1:10:43] feature should be differentiated so that
[1:10:46] it's not falsely
[1:10:48] um giving the sense that it's historic.
[1:10:52] Um the courtyard itself is is not a new
[1:10:55] feature because it's a historic feature.
[1:10:58] It's essentially being repaired
[1:11:03] » Or replaced in kind.
[1:11:05] » Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. Any other
[1:11:08] questions for the staff before we go to
[1:11:10] the architect?
[1:11:12] Okay. No. Uh, no questions. So, we'll go
[1:11:16] forward to the hear from the architect,
[1:11:18] please.
[1:11:23] » Mr. Goodwin,
[1:11:24] » Can you guys hear me?
[1:11:26] » Yes, we can.
[1:11:27] » All right. Wonderful. Thank you uh
[1:11:29] everyone for allowing us to present this
[1:11:32] and Katherine, thank you so much for
[1:11:34] that. Um the accessibility uh for the
[1:11:37] property right now um
[1:11:41] currently the only accessible path of
[1:11:43] travel is through the courtyard and
[1:11:46] after review of it through um
[1:11:49] topographic survey the slopes do not
[1:11:52] meet the requirements. So there
[1:11:54] technically is no accessible path
[1:11:57] because the there's actually stairs from
[1:11:58] the other entry to the lobby. Um so
[1:12:02] currently even though the uh entry uh
[1:12:05] and the bathrooms and certain other
[1:12:07] features inside the building have an
[1:12:10] accessible nature the path to the inside
[1:12:14] is not currently accessible.
[1:12:19] » Okay. Thanks for that.
[1:12:22] » Any questions for the architect?
[1:12:27] Um, I had some questions about the the
[1:12:29] windows and
[1:12:32] the profiles that are being proposed. I
[1:12:35] know [clears throat] that that was part
[1:12:35] of the I can't actually access it from
[1:12:38] my tablet. Could we go over that again
[1:12:41] or or see the
[1:12:43] the steel windows that are being
[1:12:44] proposed?
[1:12:48] » Uh, yes. Do you have the um brochure uh
[1:12:54] Katherine that you can show?
[1:12:59] » Um
[1:13:01] they do not
[1:13:03] » The existing windows that are being um
[1:13:05] replaced have a similar division that we
[1:13:09] are proposing. The only difference is
[1:13:11] that the mullions in the frame of the
[1:13:14] new windows are thicker than the steel
[1:13:17] um that was originally built.
[1:13:20] uh the simulated steel or the steel uh
[1:13:22] dividers that are inside of the proposed
[1:13:25] replacements are very similar to the
[1:13:27] thickness. It's just the outside frame
[1:13:30] which has to be nailed in place um in
[1:13:33] the existing openings
[1:13:35] um is thicker. So that would be the only
[1:13:38] uh major difference. Even though it it
[1:13:40] simulates the idea of what the old
[1:13:42] windows were, it is not an exact u
[1:13:45] match.
[1:13:47] » Okay. I was I think it would be nice to
[1:13:51] have the the the muttons. I understand
[1:13:54] it's a different um manufacturer,
[1:13:57] different time, and you have the double
[1:13:58] uh insulated windows and things, but I
[1:14:00] think that you could simulate is is the
[1:14:03] mutton simulating the the tea bar putty
[1:14:06] look or is it square?
[1:14:09] » The muttons are Yeah. And that will be
[1:14:12] something that we can work with staff um
[1:14:14] to show examples once we get one
[1:14:17] ordered. But the muttons are
[1:14:21] » Okay. So that's that I think that's
[1:14:22] that'd be a nice important
[1:14:25] part of it to be replacing in kind. And
[1:14:28] then the other thing that was a little
[1:14:30] bit confusing in the in the packet, I
[1:14:32] was looking at a a detail that obviously
[1:14:34] there there's a lot of different
[1:14:36] conditions throughout the the building
[1:14:39] on on the different openings and I just
[1:14:41] wanted to make sure that the the
[1:14:44] locations of the window frames within
[1:14:48] the walls are maintained. So just
[1:14:50] confirming that
[1:14:53] » Distance from the base of the uh wall,
[1:14:56] you mean? Yes, basically the the
[1:14:59] position of the frame within the
[1:15:00] thickness of the wall, the depth.
[1:15:03] » Yeah, that would be maintained as well
[1:15:05] and we can work with a mockup just to
[1:15:07] make sure that that um is approved if
[1:15:09] needed. But that's the general idea.
[1:15:13] » Okay, those are my two
[1:15:16] questions. Thank you. Otherwise, I think
[1:15:17] everything looks good, man. Well, I
[1:15:19] guess we'll wait for the public hearing
[1:15:21] to close before
[1:15:22] » Anybody else's questions for the
[1:15:23] architect.
[1:15:25] Okay, hearing none, we will open the
[1:15:28] comments to the public. If you have a
[1:15:31] comment, please come forward to the
[1:15:33] podium.
[1:15:37] Nobody in the room, anybody online,
[1:15:39] Shelby?
[1:15:40] » No, sir.
[1:15:40] » Okay, so we'll close that back up. Um,
[1:15:44] any further discussion by staff or are
[1:15:45] we ready to
[1:15:47] uh
[1:15:49] make a recommendation?
[1:15:51] » You want to say anything more, Eric? I
[1:15:54] was just make the comments. I think all
[1:15:55] the replacing the roofing and kind like
[1:15:57] that and then use the redlinin tiles for
[1:15:59] the one so they can replace or can't uh
[1:16:02] they run out of the existing tiles to
[1:16:04] reclaim. That's a good choice. I think
[1:16:07] that I'm fine with the replacement and
[1:16:09] kind of the courtyard. I think that is
[1:16:11] obviously an important thing because you
[1:16:13] can see how uneven it is as you walking
[1:16:15] through that. I know
[1:16:16] » Um people sensitive to accessibility
[1:16:18] would probably have a problem with the
[1:16:20] existing conditions. So improving that
[1:16:23] with the nice tile that they found
[1:16:24] sounds great. Um dealing with the cross
[1:16:27] slopes of the the ramp that comes in off
[1:16:30] um 7th Avenue makes a lot of sense as
[1:16:34] well. So everything else looks great.
[1:16:36] And then again, I would just stipulate
[1:16:38] that the the window frames have the T-
[1:16:41] bar putty mutton look and the uh the the
[1:16:46] location of the frames within the wall
[1:16:48] thickness is maintained per existing
[1:16:51] condition.
[1:16:54] » Okay.
[1:16:54] » I will add those two as conditions of
[1:16:56] approval.
[1:16:57] » Perfect.
[1:16:59] » All right. Would someone like to make a
[1:17:00] recommendation?
[1:17:01] » Well, I'd like to say a couple things.
[1:17:02] Sorry. There's a I thought the phase 2
[1:17:05] report that Miss Clovis did was
[1:17:07] excellent. Uh I had the sense that she
[1:17:11] uh really understood the project and
[1:17:13] made the important salient points. And
[1:17:16] if you'll just indulge me for a minute,
[1:17:19] uh when uh we were uh I think in your
[1:17:22] report, Katherine, you said that in 2002
[1:17:25] 2003, the property was enlarged to the
[1:17:29] north to add new rooms on the on that
[1:17:33] northern side. And I had to remember
[1:17:36] that I think I served on the HRB back in
[1:17:40] 2002, which makes it very long time ago
[1:17:45] because uh that's that's an example of
[1:17:49] we had to discuss the removal of a
[1:17:52] studio that was the um uh office of uh
[1:17:57] one of the prominent women painters in
[1:18:01] town who had started way back when it
[1:18:04] was the arts and crafts club here, Mary
[1:18:06] Denil Morgan, and that her studio was
[1:18:09] kind of a mess really. It didn't look
[1:18:11] really beautiful, but it was historic.
[1:18:13] And I remember we struggled with that
[1:18:15] idea at the time that here's another
[1:18:18] historic site that is changing and
[1:18:22] moving into a new addition to this
[1:18:24] hotel. But it 20 years later, I mean, it
[1:18:28] looks beautiful. So there you go. and
[1:18:31] the gardener dy's edition. All all of
[1:18:34] this is adding to the historic record
[1:18:37] which I think is very significant. So I
[1:18:40] enjoyed reading the structural engineers
[1:18:43] report. It was very folksy more not as
[1:18:46] uh you know serious as some some write
[1:18:49] but I I thought it was great and I I I
[1:18:53] agree with Eric's uh additions. I
[1:18:55] thought those are appropriate.
[1:19:03] Okay.
[1:19:06] Uh, would someone like to make a
[1:19:09] recommendation?
[1:19:13] We have the two caveats already about
[1:19:14] the windows that Eric mentioned.
[1:19:18] » [clears throat]
[1:19:20] » Um, I'll I'll make a motion that the
[1:19:22] resolution uh for this project, the
[1:19:25] Cypress in U found consistent with the
[1:19:29] uh established design context of the
[1:19:31] downtown conservation district and
[1:19:34] consistent with the Secretary of the
[1:19:36] Interior standards for the treatment of
[1:19:38] historic properties.
[1:19:40] uh including uh issuing a determination
[1:19:43] of consistency with the standards for
[1:19:45] the proposed exterior alterations and
[1:19:48] site improvements at the La Rivera
[1:19:51] Hotel.
[1:19:53] » Do I have a second?
[1:19:54] » I'll second.
[1:19:56] » Can we have a vote, please?
[1:20:00] » Board member Dyer,
[1:20:02] » Yes.
[1:20:02] » Board member Guiier,
[1:20:03] » Yes.
[1:20:04] » Board member Rinstein,
[1:20:05] » Yes.
[1:20:05] » Board member Boris,
[1:20:06] » Yes.
[1:20:07] » And chair Croman,
[1:20:08] » Yes.
[1:20:08] » Motion passes.
[1:20:09] » Great. Thanks very much for that. Um, do
[1:20:11] we have a director's report?
[1:20:13] » I do have uh several announcements.
[1:20:19] » Um, Shelby, do you mind can I can I
[1:20:21] display this? Do I pull it over?
[1:20:25] And I meant to do this while we had more
[1:20:28] of an audience in the room, but if
[1:20:29] anyone's watching later, just so the
[1:20:31] public knows where to find any staff
[1:20:34] level project approval or determination
[1:20:38] of ineligibility, uh this is how you
[1:20:40] will find it.
[1:20:48] So from the city's homepage, you'll go
[1:20:51] up to departments,
[1:20:53] planning and building,
[1:20:58] planning division,
[1:21:02] and then this icon that says current
[1:21:05] planning applications, determinations,
[1:21:07] and approvals. [clears throat]
[1:21:10] And there's several different categories
[1:21:12] here where staff
[1:21:15] leaves notice of of various actions. The
[1:21:18] historic determinations dropdown is
[1:21:20] where you'll be able to access um
[1:21:24] determinations of ineligibility. These
[1:21:26] are are a little bit old. We we add the
[1:21:30] determinations of ineligibility on the
[1:21:33] first day of the appeal period. Um
[1:21:36] here's some some old ones, but I'll just
[1:21:37] pull this one up.
[1:21:40] So you'll see the cover sheet which the
[1:21:44] board just recently approved this new
[1:21:45] format which will say
[1:21:48] why the property uh is ineligible and
[1:21:52] then the the report itself is also
[1:21:54] accessible. Um you can see maps
[1:21:58] um photographs.
[1:22:00] So that is where
[1:22:03] the city posts posts things. And then I
[1:22:06] have a few other um announcements.
[1:22:10] Last [cough and clears throat] week uh
[1:22:11] the city
[1:22:13] hosted an objective design and
[1:22:15] development standard for the downtown
[1:22:19] workshop uh last Wednesday.
[1:22:22] [clears throat] This was the fourth
[1:22:23] workshop and it was co-hosted by the
[1:22:26] principal planner Marne Waffle and our
[1:22:28] consultant Optic Coast Design. So, the
[1:22:31] city is soliciting feedback on preferred
[1:22:33] architectural styles for multifamily and
[1:22:37] mixeduse housing in the villages
[1:22:38] downtown. Um, we're seeking feedback on
[1:22:42] also which which architectural design
[1:22:45] element should be regulated for each
[1:22:47] architectural style. So, if you missed
[1:22:49] the work workshop, you can view the
[1:22:51] PowerPoint presentation and you can
[1:22:53] watch the meeting on our YouTube channel
[1:22:56] and last week's Friday letter also had a
[1:22:59] blurb about the workshop with pertinent
[1:23:01] links. So, there's there are surveys.
[1:23:03] So, I highly encourage the board and
[1:23:06] members of the public to get involved
[1:23:08] because that's very project with a great
[1:23:11] impact. My second announcement is that
[1:23:13] the city has hired a new planning and
[1:23:15] building director, Andy Mrick. And Andy
[1:23:19] will be joining us on September 30th,
[1:23:21] and we're very excited to welcome him.
[1:23:23] So, you'll be meeting him in o in
[1:23:26] October.
[1:23:28] Third announcement is that, as you know,
[1:23:30] the board is registered for a two-part
[1:23:32] virtual training on the secretary of the
[1:23:33] interior standards. Uh part one was last
[1:23:36] week and part two is uh tomorrow. I
[1:23:38] believe the webinars are recorded and I
[1:23:41] will be sending out the recording links
[1:23:43] as soon as I receive them.
[1:23:46] Additionally, U Meg Clovis will present
[1:23:48] an in-person refresher on the standards
[1:23:50] as requested at a date yet to be
[1:23:52] determined, but definitely haven't
[1:23:54] forgotten about that. Thank you to the
[1:23:56] board for attending that joint HRB
[1:23:58] planning commission meeting on September
[1:24:00] 9th to consider the upcoming
[1:24:02] rehabilitation of the Harrison Memorial
[1:24:04] Library. Um the board issued a
[1:24:07] determination of consistency with the
[1:24:08] standards and then the planning
[1:24:10] commission approved the design review
[1:24:11] application and then a design for that
[1:24:14] plaque recognizing MJ Murphy and Bernard
[1:24:17] Maybeck will be brought back to the
[1:24:19] board for final copy approval. And this
[1:24:21] is a city property so we have a lot of
[1:24:24] control over that plaque. And then um
[1:24:28] the design guidelines 1.5 will be
[1:24:31] brought back to the planning commission
[1:24:33] in October and then sub subsequently uh
[1:24:36] considered by the city council and
[1:24:39] according to council members Baron and
[1:24:42] Delves who are the city council sponsors
[1:24:44] of that project. The inclusion of the
[1:24:46] draft visual history section will be
[1:24:48] postponed until after the main document
[1:24:50] has been approved.
[1:24:52] And then my last announcement is that we
[1:24:55] are going to pull the board for
[1:24:57] availability to adjust the meeting time
[1:24:59] of the regularly scheduled October 19th
[1:25:02] meeting because the chambers is going to
[1:25:04] be in use uh for another meeting that
[1:25:08] day. We're going to reach out to you
[1:25:09] tomorrow via email to see if maybe a
[1:25:11] morning meeting time could be feasible.
[1:25:15] » Super. Thanks.
[1:25:16] » So when do we get the visual history
[1:25:17] then? Because we still need to approve
[1:25:19] it, right?
[1:25:21] The only update I have is that the
[1:25:24] document is going to be considered
[1:25:26] without it in the short term
[1:25:28] [clears throat]
[1:25:30] per council members Baron and Delves,
[1:25:34] » But we asked it to have it back to
[1:25:37] [clears throat] review. So,
[1:25:39] » I understand that they're not going to
[1:25:40] include it in the main document at this
[1:25:41] point, but I think it it's kind of nice
[1:25:43] that if we get our work done, they can
[1:25:46] then have the option to include it or
[1:25:48] not include it, I guess.
[1:25:51] When I receive
[1:25:54] the guidance from the council members,
[1:25:57] uh, we'll bring it back to you.
[1:26:00] » Is it decoupling the project though if
[1:26:02] we do it? I mean, it's like we're doing
[1:26:04] the same thing but not doing it.
[1:26:07] » I'd recommend any member of the public
[1:26:09] who has questions about it to contact
[1:26:11] the council member project sponsors.
[1:26:15] » Okay.
[1:26:17] Okay. Well, thanks for the report. Um,
[1:26:20] our next regular meeting is scheduled
[1:26:22] for the 19th of October. As Katherine
[1:26:24] said, I guess we're going to look at
[1:26:24] some alternate timings for that. Um, any
[1:26:27] other comments before we adjourn.
[1:26:30] Okay. Thanks everybody on the board and
[1:26:32] thanks for the public for joining us
[1:26:34] today. Uh, the meeting's adjourned.
[1:26:36] » Thank you.
[1:26:36] » Thank you.
[1:26:44] Um I think I think we can raise it as a
[1:26:48] um a future agenda item and we can just
[1:26:50] make a decision on it. Yeah.
[1:26:52] » Yeah. [clears throat]
[1:26:53] » Yeah. I will reach out to our clerk who
[1:26:56] I think handles those proclamations and
[1:26:58] I'll get more information for you.