[0:28] e e
[1:31] please stand for the
[1:34] pledge I pledge to the flag the United
[1:38] States of America to the Republic for
[1:40] which it stands one nation under God
[1:43] indivisible with liberty
[1:51] [Music]
[1:55] Justice good evening welcome to the town
[1:58] of Carmel January 9 2025 planning board
[2:02] meeting first up on our our agenda is a
[2:05] public hearing for Old Forge
[2:10] Estates Mike you had no comments correct
[2:13] I do not this is on for a public hearing
[2:16] okay en Rich same here no comments same
[2:19] here no comments very good thank you so
[2:23] with that we'll open up to the audience
[2:24] if anyone wishes to be heard on this
[2:26] please come up to the mic state your
[2:28] name
[2:33] good evening my name is Bruce Schwarz I
[2:35] live at 28 muscot North my property
[2:39] backs up against this proposed
[2:41] subdivision um I've lived there since
[2:45] 1981 and I'm here to request that no
[2:49] other approval be granted at this time
[2:53] um the developer and the engineer is
[2:55] aware that there's an adverse possession
[2:57] situation here involving the prop my
[2:58] property line and there
[3:00] and they haven't really come forward and
[3:03] tried to resolve it with me last time I
[3:05] heard from
[3:08] them
[3:09] was August of
[3:12] 21
[3:14] um and I just I don't want to see this
[3:17] get approved until this property line
[3:19] issue gets resolved when you say that
[3:21] there's an adverse Poss apologize I
[3:24] can't see I got a large man in front of
[3:26] me when you say that there's an adverse
[3:29] possession CLA is there been a uh a
[3:32] filing in Supreme Court not yet but my
[3:35] attorney has been in touch with
[3:38] that I can't see you can take the mic
[3:40] with you if you want okay but there's
[3:42] been no no filing not at this time okay
[3:46] I'm trying to resolve it before that
[3:48] understood thank
[3:54] you do you have anything else before
[3:57] well I mean I have some pictures I can
[3:58] tell you the whole history I don't know
[4:00] how much time you want to take on this
[4:02] but no we'll take whatever time just um
[4:04] Paul you want to respond to that he
[4:07] knows who I am he's been there yes no
[4:10] because we know we haven't heard
[4:11] anything of this nature there's been no
[4:14] correspondence to the board and uh was
[4:17] when they were in front of the board I
[4:19] guess it was three or four years ago and
[4:21] I tried to resolve the situation it
[4:24] hasn't gone anywhere they're making some
[4:25] crazy demands what they what they want
[4:27] me to pay for which I'm not willing to
[4:29] pay for like paying for the um
[4:32] resurveying of their development and so
[4:35] forth and so on paying for their
[4:37] attorney which I'm not going to do I'm
[4:39] willing to pay for my attorney and
[4:41] anything that pertains to me if I have
[4:43] to resurvey my property I'll be happy to
[4:45] do that but I'm not going to pay for
[4:47] what they should be paying for Bruce can
[4:49] you explain are you encroaching on their
[4:51] property or they encroaching on youring
[4:53] on there there's a map up front here if
[4:55] you can grab the microphone or pull you
[4:57] can point to it to show us where we're
[4:58] at in the world here please
[5:00] 4T their property I I understand but
[5:03] there's a drawing here so we understand
[5:04] where it Mr Schwarz right I'm Mr Schwarz
[5:07] okay so properties this is this is his
[5:10] property here and he has come back onto
[5:14] they can't see if you stand in front of
[5:16] it right one also he's cleared and and
[5:20] has a lawn area planted back in in in
[5:22] that area and that's what he wants to
[5:24] claim and you know basically steal so um
[5:28] bought the house in 198
[5:30] just use the microphone a little bit oh
[5:32] I'm sorry sorry when I bought the house
[5:34] in 1981 from the original owner who
[5:36] built the house he had pushed the tree
[5:39] line back 45
[5:41] ft um right at that tree line on my side
[5:45] of the tree line there's a drainage
[5:48] ditch Culvert whatever you want to call
[5:50] it there's a tremendous amount of uh
[5:52] groundw that comes down off the hill
[5:56] through my property and my neighbor's
[5:59] property
[6:00] and um I've maintained that all these
[6:03] years 3 years ago I had a contractor
[6:07] come in and restored because it wears
[6:10] away after a while from all the water
[6:12] and it's now lined with stone and rip
[6:14] wrap in there so my backyard doesn't
[6:16] flood anymore and that's one of the
[6:18] reasons you have the wetlands at the
[6:20] bottom of the hill on on um mus on uh
[6:22] balen Place Road cuz all this water
[6:24] comes down and it comes through our
[6:26] property so that drainage dishes in that
[6:30] 45 ft that I'm been maintaining for all
[6:33] these years um there was a vegetable
[6:36] garden there uh when I bought the house
[6:39] that I maintained for a couple of years
[6:40] and I didn't want to do it anymore so I
[6:43] did put a lawn in there and the fence
[6:45] that surrounded the vegetable garden
[6:47] which is about 80 ft is now and has been
[6:50] since then along the tree line so I have
[6:54] a fence up there and
[6:57] um at the end of my dra driveway I park
[7:01] I have four cars so I park cars there
[7:03] times I store firewood back there I I
[7:07] maintain the property I've been doing it
[7:08] for 44 years prior to these folks um
[7:12] with their proposal I guess you guys
[7:15] know there was other proposals for this
[7:16] property over the years that have never
[7:18] gone anywhere and um in all those years
[7:23] no one has ever come to me including
[7:25] these people and said hey you're I'm on your property you got to
[7:29] get off they've never said one word to
[7:31] me about that even when I informed them
[7:33] about that I've never gotten a letter
[7:35] nobody ever said to me you're
[7:38] encroaching so as far as I'm concerned
[7:40] you know it's my property so did did
[7:43] they come to you now and say your no I'm
[7:46] here tonight because I got the letter in the mail about the public hearing for
[7:50] this uh I didn't know where this was
[7:52] going there hasn't been any back and
[7:54] forth between us like I said since I got
[7:56] my attorney got this letter in um August
[7:59] of 21 when they asked me to pay for
[8:03] either part of or whatever resurveying
[8:05] their whole development there and
[8:08] wanting me to pay for
[8:10] their um their attorney fees which I'm
[8:12] not willing to do so what I'm what I'm
[8:14] getting at is so as as of right now
[8:15] nobody's asked you to vacate that
[8:18] property no okay so you're here you want
[8:20] to preemptively say hey I have adverse
[8:23] possession of this property yeah I I
[8:25] want to yeah it's the you have to go to
[8:27] the court to get this settled this has
[8:28] nothing to do with this board we don't
[8:30] move property lines unless I'm not
[8:32] asking you to move a property line but
[8:34] you are no I'm asking you not to give
[8:36] any more approvals until this is
[8:38] resolved but they can't there's nothing
[8:40] just so you understand so I can't hear
[8:42] you I'm sorry just so you understand so
[8:44] the board understands the board has um
[8:48] the right to rely on the submissions
[8:50] that have made by the applicant they're
[8:52] unopposed they're uncontested the board
[8:55] has the right to rely on the boundaries
[8:57] the meets and Bounds descriptions the
[8:58] survey
[8:59] and the certified documents that are
[9:01] before it absent in an injunction or
[9:05] anything else prohibiting this board to
[9:07] act the board has the legal right to
[9:09] move forward with respect to this even
[9:12] if myself comes up and say hey this is a
[9:14] problem here yes so I have
[9:18] to I have to I have to do
[9:22] what what is is there a survey on this
[9:24] property did yeah this is the survey
[9:26] there's a survey filed and everything on
[9:28] that property correct yes H Have you
[9:30] shared it with Mr
[9:32] Schwarz or would you share it with him
[9:34] yeah I mean it's public record a copy he
[9:38] could get a copy I suggest you get a
[9:40] copy of that
[9:41] survey well I I think it's a separate
[9:43] issue I mean he I don't think us taking
[9:46] action is going to affect you or your
[9:47] attorney's ability to go to court and to
[9:49] say hey look we've openly and
[9:51] notoriously occupied this property um
[9:54] and we have a right to it that that's a
[9:56] separate issue and I don't think it what
[9:58] we do affects that in any way but if you
[10:01] approve this and I go to court and they
[10:05] agree with me then you've approved an
[10:07] incorrect property line and the judge
[10:09] can move the line to where it's where
[10:10] you say it's supposed to be absolutely
[10:13] so ordered and it's not an issue of the
[10:15] Jud of the planning board approving
[10:18] something that's incorrect right now
[10:21] it's
[10:22] correct until such time as a court
[10:25] determines that it's not the planning
[10:28] board has the right to act on it so I
[10:30] just have to follow with the court to
[10:32] let them know that I want to do this and
[10:35] at that point you hold this up or what
[10:37] happens well listen none of us can give
[10:39] you legal advice I'm not asking for
[10:41] legal I just don't know what the process
[10:43] is I think you need to talk to your
[10:44] attorney um but what I'm trying to say
[10:46] is you've told me that nobody's telling
[10:49] you or trying to kick you off the
[10:50] property nobody has right so I think at
[10:53] this point it's really something your
[10:54] attorney has to go to court and say hey
[10:56] look we've we've occupied this land um
[10:58] you used a very specific term adverse
[11:01] possession it has a very specific
[11:02] meaning and your attorney could handle
[11:05] it but I don't think it really affects
[11:06] us and our ability to approve this
[11:09] project these two things can go in
[11:11] parallel I'm sorry these two issues can
[11:14] exist in parallel you can go to your
[11:16] attorney and and follow you know his
[11:19] advice and go do what he or she says
[11:23] so I mean I happen to be an attorney so
[11:25] that's
[11:26] okay I believe you so that's so there
[11:30] nothing else that you folks are going to
[11:31] do tonight with me telling you what's
[11:33] going on can I just ask one question if
[11:36] your adverse
[11:38] claim um were were approved does
[11:45] it affect anything in terms of the
[11:49] proposed construction no it won't affect
[11:53] doesn't affects that back we were we
[11:54] were maintaining a 100 foot buffer from
[11:56] the back of this lot to that to our
[11:58] property line you would have to come
[12:00] back with a Revis
[12:01] mapa no not if it's so ordered by a
[12:04] judge so I say go and a judge says this
[12:06] line is now here that's what the line is
[12:09] it gets filed that way and and the court
[12:11] and then County Clerk assuming that yes
[12:14] but you're saying that even if that
[12:16] happened your setbacks are okay correct
[12:19] okay we we don't know what the judge the
[12:21] judge could say come back to the
[12:22] planning word you could so order we
[12:24] don't know and we couldn't we shouldn't
[12:26] speculate I was trying to save everybody
[12:28] money and going to court with lawyers
[12:30] and so forth but they just haven't been
[12:32] responsive to
[12:34] this when was the last when was the last
[12:36] time your property was surveyed when was
[12:39] your property last surveyed well I guess
[12:41] when I bought it you know I haven't had
[12:44] it done since then and on the original
[12:46] plans does it state that that part of
[12:48] the property is in your in your plan say
[12:52] again when you bought the property and
[12:53] you had the land surveyed does it have
[12:56] that distinction in it that that it goes
[12:58] back that far Does it show the extra 45
[13:00] ft in my on my plan I'm sure it
[13:04] doesn't I'm sure it doesn't so you're
[13:06] just going by what the former owner had
[13:08] taken a you know um he's the one who did
[13:10] all that Poss of
[13:13] okay I'm done all right unless you have
[13:20] any other questions or comments okay
[13:22] thank you very much thank
[13:25] you anyone else in the audience wish to
[13:28] be heard my name yes
[13:31] I'm I'm at 38 M North and uh I been
[13:37] there since uh
[13:40] 2008 and uh my situation is exactly like
[13:44] this like a situation my situation is
[13:48] the the property line was pushed back I
[13:50] believe when they built the house that's
[13:52] what I believe because when I bought the
[13:55] property the property is exactly the way
[13:58] I bought it
[13:59] I there's a loan I take care of the loan
[14:02] and everything I thought that was my
[14:04] property but eventually it's not so and
[14:10] the and I saw the the the blueprint the the prince or whatever and the they
[14:18] try to build a house right right next to
[14:20] mine right there like proba 30 ft for my
[14:23] house why can't they push the house back
[14:26] more because there's a lot of space why
[14:28] they have to build the house house right
[14:29] on top in on top of
[14:31] mine so so what's your address and
[14:34] what's your name again and Paul could
[14:36] you show us where his piece of property
[14:37] is my name is Manuel Oliva okay are you
[14:42] just downhill of Mr
[14:43] Schwarz no it's up you're uphill yeah
[14:46] uphill and your address is excuse me
[14:49] your address 38 38 38 mus North and plus
[14:53] there's a drainage that comes on the top
[14:56] of my house from this right from the
[14:58] street
[14:59] my my property down the back right to
[15:03] the to his backyard isn't there 100 foot
[15:06] buffer at that there's 100 foot buffer
[15:08] to the property line and the houses are
[15:09] farther away than that it's going to be
[15:11] more than 100 ft from your house from
[15:14] your property line excuse me the house
[15:16] that they're going to propose is more
[15:18] than 100 fet from the property
[15:21] line I don't think so yes yeah it is cu
[15:25] it looks like it's right there right the because I I saw once and looks
[15:31] like it's right there the property
[15:33] Line's 100 ft and then they have to be
[15:34] set back from that from the property L
[15:37] is going to be 100t more than 100 more
[15:39] than 100 right 100t to the property line
[15:41] then they have setback requirement to
[15:42] the to the house so it's more than 100t
[15:45] away side right there yeah this from
[15:47] here to here is 100 ft and obviously the
[15:49] houses are farther away right but that's
[15:52] from the property line not from your
[15:54] purported where you're maintaining grass
[15:56] so but it's 100 ft from the property
[15:58] line that's a distinction that needs to
[16:00] be known as the board is already aware
[16:02] but you need to be made aware of that
[16:03] but Paul do we have the same situation
[16:06] as on the former gentleman it would not
[16:09] impact us okay how about the theage
[16:12] because the has to stay there because
[16:14] the otherwise going to flood my house is
[16:15] going to flood everything because the the water comes from the up the hill
[16:19] comes down there's a on the side on my
[16:23] goes to the backyard and go goes
[16:27] down you have to keep the
[16:31] there existing conditions there's
[16:32] nothing that we're doing on that inside
[16:34] of the property so we wouldn't be
[16:36] changing anything you should go there
[16:38] should we wouldn't be discharging over
[16:39] there so there's there is no we're not
[16:41] going to create any
[16:43] impact but they are
[16:48] creating the
[16:51] microphone we already pretty much there
[16:53] is an impact
[16:55] now there is an impact now and has been
[16:58] by the ground water that comes down our
[17:00] side of that piece of property it runs
[17:02] behind Manny's house and through this
[17:04] drainage ditch on my house and then it
[17:06] goes down through the bii's house and it
[17:09] winds up at bald and Place Road and I'm
[17:11] sure it shows Wetlands all at the bottom
[17:13] of bald and place road down there on the
[17:15] muscot North side cuz it's a swamp down
[17:18] there and that's where the water comes
[17:20] from it comes from the top of the hill
[17:22] they tried to tell me a couple of years
[17:23] ago that the water was coming from
[17:26] Manny's gutters off of his house which
[17:29] is absurd you know the amount of water
[17:32] that comes down and the at the speed it
[17:34] comes down it's it's what is the
[17:38] significance of that what is the
[17:40] significance of the fact that there's
[17:41] water coming down I'm sorry what is the
[17:44] significance of the fact that there's
[17:46] water coming down floods out our
[17:48] backyard I I I understand but what does
[17:50] that have to do with this public hearing
[17:53] it's coming from their
[17:54] property it's on their property where it
[17:57] originates and is it changed over the
[18:00] years
[18:01] no existing condition that's why I said
[18:05] I had to maintain the Swale on my
[18:07] property that I just loaded upward rip
[18:09] wrap to keep my back back backyard from
[18:11] flooding out so the the the runoff that
[18:14] you've gotten previously is it because
[18:17] of anything they did on the property or
[18:19] because of the topography I think it's a
[18:21] topography you know cuz like I said I'm
[18:23] there 44 years and it hasn't changed
[18:26] okay you know and in the spring if we
[18:30] have snow all that water runs off if
[18:32] it's a heavy rain I mean the Swale my
[18:35] Swale is that
[18:37] deep and it comes right up to the
[18:41] top but that basically goes back just to
[18:43] the adverse claim ision
[18:49] right okay thank
[18:55] you is there anyone else in the audience
[18:57] that wish to be heard on on
[19:02] this okay with that
[19:05] um I would need a motion to close the
[19:07] public
[19:09] hearing I'll make a motion to close the
[19:11] public hearing I second um all in favor
[19:15] I I thank you Pat would you prepare a
[19:19] preliminary cluster subdivision
[19:20] resolution for preliminary approval yes
[19:22] we will and just to be clear that that
[19:25] approval will carry with it a storm
[19:26] water management plan that addresses all of the storm order impacts
[19:30] associated with the development of the
[19:31] site not an existing condition that may
[19:33] be a pre-existing circumstance
[19:35] understood thank
[19:39] you okay next up on the agenda is
[19:42] Gilmore Michael and Thomas
[19:44] 153 shindan Hill Road Paul Lynch from
[19:48] putam engineering this is a proposed uh
[19:51] two lot subdivision we presented two
[19:54] plans one is a sketch plan number one
[19:58] the other is sketch plan number two
[20:00] sketch plan number one meets all the
[20:03] zoning requirements in the town in terms
[20:06] of lot depth lot width lot
[20:11] area for both
[20:15] Lots sketch plan number
[20:17] two is a much more
[20:20] simplified geometric
[20:23] shape and we fall short on our lot
[20:26] widths so if we were to go with sketch
[20:29] subdivision plan number two that would
[20:31] require variance for lot width from the zoning board my preference is
[20:36] this plan PL plan number two because
[20:39] it's a much more simplified geometric
[20:41] layout you don't end up with it
[20:44] appendage in the back of what would be
[20:46] this lot and then that just becomes
[20:48] forgotten land it it
[20:50] just this is just a cleaner layout but
[20:53] it it needs the variance and that's just
[20:56] the way the town ordinance has us
[20:58] calculate lot width we go to the
[21:00] midpoint of the front we go to the
[21:02] midpoint of the back draw a line get to
[21:05] the midpoint there make 290 degrees and
[21:07] that's where we take our measurement
[21:09] Paul before before we go any further
[21:11] thank you for that explanation I just I want to hear from the consultant sorry
[21:15] uh Mike you had a memo on this correct
[21:17] yeah uh what he said is true one of the
[21:18] plans complies the other one doesn't the
[21:20] one that doesn't comply is a more
[21:24] convention accurate you know it's
[21:26] straighter lines everything works out
[21:27] better but
[21:29] um it's really up to them to decide if
[21:31] they want to do the the straight lines
[21:33] and go for the variances or go with the weird shape
[21:37] and and deal with it and Rich you had a
[21:40] memo on this as well correct so again I
[21:42] think the applicant's here to discuss
[21:44] the layout first before they move
[21:46] forward um you know there's some basic I
[21:49] don't have objection to the subdivision
[21:50] being presented in either way it's
[21:52] really the applicant's decision and then
[21:54] the planning board's decision there are
[21:56] standard comments there licensed you
[21:58] know survey the property um you know
[22:01] they'll pay Recreation fee they'll have
[22:03] to come back with all the normal
[22:06] subdivision plans going forward thank
[22:09] you did you have anything yeah I did um
[22:12] what I would say Mr chairman is so it's
[22:14] not your job to pick and choose an
[22:16] applicant's project so Paul should have
[22:18] selected an alternative that he
[22:20] preferred I heard him say it tonight and
[22:22] advance that he could have shown the AL
[22:24] the other alternative to defend his
[22:26] position with respect to the alternative
[22:27] but we shouldn't the plan that was
[22:29] submitted in either or is an
[22:31] unacceptable condition for the board you
[22:33] should have what the applicant prefers
[22:35] to advance as the plan before you um so
[22:38] now that we know he's pref prefers the
[22:40] conventional plan um I would suggest
[22:43] remove the other plan from the drawing
[22:44] poll and advance that plan and variances
[22:47] are required OB and variances would be
[22:49] required um there's a few technical
[22:51] comments with respect to that but um
[22:54] give us information about site distances
[22:56] at the driveway the typical things but I
[22:58] noticed Paul that there's a it looks
[23:00] like there's a yeah a road or something
[23:03] that's depicted in the back what's that
[23:05] about there was a file map I think it
[23:08] was number 749 that dates back
[23:11] forever um where there was a logging
[23:14] trail that came through this lot went
[23:18] onto the adjoining subdivision property
[23:21] and then circulates and comes all the
[23:23] way back to the Gilmore
[23:25] property so there was a file map that
[23:28] had has this logging Trail uh they call
[23:31] it as depicted Road um but it benefits
[23:35] nobody and our clients are actually
[23:37] working with I believe this property
[23:39] owner to have it extinguished because it
[23:41] serves no benefit is there easement or
[23:44] anything PA in place or is it just on a
[23:46] map on a
[23:49] map
[23:51] yeah so it's not written in the
[23:55] deed uh generally hand was it a
[23:59] handwritten handr it it dates back to
[24:02] like the 1800s and it was a handwritten
[24:05] so it's in the
[24:07] schedule no it got lost over time but
[24:10] it's referenced it's not in the meets
[24:12] and balances schedule for the pro no
[24:14] okay yeah Paul I think so it would be
[24:17] our preference to make that go away yes
[24:19] so I can work with Joe and find out the
[24:21] right mechanism to make it go away
[24:23] because in essence it's an easement to
[24:25] get from this part of their property to
[24:28] the back part of their property which
[24:30] crosses over an adjoining neighbor and
[24:33] it it's not required it's not needed and
[24:36] it serves no benefit at this point in
[24:38] time so you confused me you just said
[24:41] it's an easement so there is an easement
[24:43] well well it's it's it's on a file map
[24:46] okay so it's
[24:49] yeah you're just referring to it in
[24:51] eement yes okay generic I got you okay
[24:58] so you you'll have to you know revise
[25:00] corre back with your preferred plan
[25:02] we're going to come back with this
[25:03] remove that trail from it whatever you
[25:06] can and then we'll we'll take it to the
[25:08] next step
[25:09] okay any other comments
[25:12] questions all right thank you very
[25:15] [Music]
[25:20] much thank you
[25:33] Pat we would uh hold till we see the
[25:36] revised plan we wouldn't be declare it
[25:38] anything right okay all right next up on
[25:41] the agenda is uh Frey subdivision this
[25:44] is on for a
[25:55] resolution Jack there we go John Carell
[25:59] representing Scott fry and we're I
[26:03] understand we're up for a
[26:05] resolution yes sir that be nice Mike you
[26:08] had no comments correct yeah this is on
[26:11] for resolution all my comments have been
[26:14] addressed okay Rich no comments it's on
[26:17] for a resolution the only thing that was
[26:18] outstanding was a bond uh that's
[26:20] supposed to be included in the
[26:21] resolution I sent that information to
[26:23] Pat but both Pat and I did not bring the
[26:25] numbers Jack if you remember it we'd
[26:27] like to have it written in but otherwise
[26:29] it was something like $115,000 with a
[26:31] $5,000 engineering fee but it was
[26:34] submitted by Jack and approved by the
[26:35] engineering department it just came late
[26:37] in the week so that needs to be included
[26:39] as part of the resolution so or should
[26:42] be do you remember the number jack off
[26:44] no so what I would suggest is you can say at the number that was
[26:49] agreed upon by the engineers okay right
[26:52] now there's a placeholder in the
[26:53] resolution so you can just reference
[26:55] this okay agreement so you have two
[26:58] resolutions Mr chairman thank you the
[26:59] neg deck and the subcision approval does
[27:02] the board have any
[27:04] questions if not I'll need a motion
[27:06] sorry was there if not I'll need a
[27:08] motion to adopt the secret negative
[27:10] declaration
[27:12] approval uh I'll offer the uh resolution
[27:15] of the planning board of town of Carmel
[27:17] number
[27:18] 25-3 January 9 20
[27:21] 2025 tax map number
[27:24] 74121 d33 phrase subdivision Seeker
[27:28] determination of signif significance
[27:31] negative declaration second all in favor
[27:36] I okay I'll I'll need a motion to adopt
[27:38] final subdivision approval with a
[27:40] placeholder for the fees agreed to by
[27:43] the engineering department Mr chairman
[27:45] I'll make a a uh resolution uh final
[27:49] subdivision approval resolution of the
[27:50] planning board of the town of Carl
[27:53] number
[27:54] 25-4 January 9 2025 tax M number
[28:00] 74121 d33 fry
[28:04] subdivision second all in favor I I okay
[28:09] thank you thank you all
[28:26] right Jack please don't bre the
[28:35] equipment you're up too Jack
[28:38] next
[28:42] okay next up on the agenda is uh
[28:46] Franco cury PMA 108 Barrett Hill
[28:52] Ro we'll take a pause you're only on for
[28:56] Resolutions you may not on for a
[28:59] resolution we may not get to look we
[29:02] need an engineer to
[29:05] help Jack that was good that's true
[29:08] there we go I'll get down don't breathe
[29:11] next we okay so this is on for this is
[29:14] on for a resolution uh Mike I believe
[29:17] you had no comments as well no comments
[29:19] on this this is a regrading and it's on
[29:21] for
[29:22] resolution well comments have been
[29:24] addressed there you have the regrading
[29:26] resolution before you Mr chairman thank
[29:28] you P so I'll need a motion to adopt de
[29:30] grading appr there any questions from
[29:32] the board we have any on this then I'll
[29:35] need a motion to adopt a regrading
[29:37] approval resolution Mr chairman I'll
[29:39] offer the resolution of the planed Board
[29:41] of town to call M number 25 tx07 dated 9
[29:44] January 2025 reference tax ma number 53
[29:47] decimal 17 Tac 1 t27 108 that's 108
[29:51] Barrett Hill Road regrading plan second
[29:55] all in favor thank you okay thank you
[29:58] very much hope I can keep going don't
[30:22] tou
[30:23] okay next up on uh the agenda is America
[30:28] Sereno 206 East Lake Boulevard this is
[30:32] on for uh final site plan
[30:36] resolution all my comments have been
[30:38] addressed this is on for final
[30:40] approval same here and you have a
[30:43] resolution Mr chairman thank
[30:46] you anything you have for the
[30:48] board any questions from the board on
[30:51] this no no okay then I'll need a motion
[30:53] to adopt final site plan
[30:56] approval uh Mr chair I'll offer the
[30:58] resolution of the planning board of the
[31:00] town of Carmel number
[31:02] 25-06 uh January 9th
[31:05] 2025 tax map number 65.1
[31:09] 17-16 Sereno Boat House 206 East Lake
[31:13] Boulevard final site planine thank you
[31:16] all in favor
[31:17] I thank
[31:19] you a thank you
[31:37] good okay next up we have uh Marcel
[31:40] cerillo 1849 Route 6 this is on for a
[31:44] final site plan approval
[31:49] resolution good
[31:52] evening okay again this is on for a
[31:54] resolution like yet no comments same
[31:57] it's on for a resol res olution all my
[31:58] comments have been addressed okay all
[32:01] comments addressed and you have the
[32:03] resolution thank
[32:06] you any questions from the bo
[32:11] no
[32:13] missing don't have I don't
[32:18] know do you have the resolution he's got
[32:22] it you's got it he's got it okay let's
[32:26] make sure
[32:36] okay both Mr chairman I make a
[32:40] resolution to approve tax map number
[32:42] 55-1
[32:44] 0-1 D16 cillo 1849 Route 6 final site
[32:49] Fran approval second all in favor
[32:54] I thank you are you all set thank you
[32:57] very much thank you thank
[33:01] you wanted a two recess with yeah we're
[33:04] going to take a quick recess just to set
[33:05] up for the next uh
[33:26] applicant
[33:56] e e
[36:16] okay um we're going to continue now next
[36:19] on the agenda is New York smsa limited
[36:24] partnership doing business as Verizon
[36:26] Wireless Glen Common
[36:28] Lake um this is on for a to adopt a
[36:33] secret negative declaration
[36:39] resolution I believe we have no comments
[36:41] from Mike I have no comments it's on for
[36:43] Seeker same here no comment and you have
[36:45] the draft resolution before you Mr
[36:47] chairman thank you um Mr gordos anything
[36:50] you want to just go
[36:53] over I have a little trouble hearing you
[36:55] but if the question was whether I had
[36:58] any comments uh no we do not thank you any questions or comments from
[37:02] the
[37:04] board okay if not then I will need a
[37:07] motion to adopt the Seeker negative
[37:08] declaration
[37:12] resolution Mr chairman I'll make a
[37:14] motion to adopt the resolution of the
[37:16] planning board of the town of Carmel
[37:17] 25-2 January 9th
[37:20] 2025 tax map
[37:22] 87.5 d190 or- 90 New York uh LED
[37:27] partnership doing business as Verizon
[37:29] Wireless and Homeland Towers LLC Glen
[37:32] aoma Lake site plan secret determination
[37:35] of significance negative
[37:36] declaration I second okay what we'll do
[37:40] here we're going to need a roll call
[37:41] vote so Pat would you take the roll call
[37:43] please
[37:46] sure uh let's go John hi for Bob hi Ray
[37:52] hi Vicki hi Nick hi Mr chairman hi 60
[38:01] thank you for your time this evening all
[38:02] right thank
[38:08] you go back to
[38:14] that okay uh Centennial uh has been
[38:17] removed from the agenda um so we'll move
[38:20] on to uh site plan uh Carl residential
[38:24] 119 Seminary Hill Road this is a Central
[38:27] site plan
[39:12] good evening
[39:16] um want say yeah uh Zach Pearson Insight
[39:19] engineering here on behalf of the owner
[39:21] uh NES LSC LLC uh for karma residential
[39:25] um just a I guess I could ref fresh
[39:27] where we left off with you guys uh
[39:29] before you in October uh heard the
[39:32] board's concerns got the consultant memo
[39:35] comments um heard that you know the
[39:38] visual aspect or Aesthetics of this was was an issue that we needed to study
[39:42] further um studied a or did an
[39:44] additional balloon test in a leaf off
[39:46] condition um and provided an updated uh
[39:50] Aesthetics resources can I just pause
[39:53] you there yeah thank you um Mike you
[39:56] want I know you memo comments first I
[39:59] have to correct the first comment I said
[40:00] is there a reason they only answered two
[40:02] of my comments there were two separate
[40:04] replies I only saw the one I think it
[40:06] was for the subdivision not for the site
[40:08] plan so they did answer them but they I
[40:11] spoke to Mike in Highway uh Mike Stern I
[40:14] asked him about the road and he said
[40:16] he's not interested in having a road of
[40:17] that nature so I don't know if you can
[40:19] talk to your client they don't want to
[40:21] maintain this road so um they can go
[40:23] back to design this as a um not as a
[40:27] Private Road ASO as opposed to a town or
[40:29] whatever kind they were going to do and
[40:31] the other thing was we spoke about the
[40:34] fire department
[40:36] um I can't think who I spoke to in your
[40:38] office Don yeah and Don said they spoke
[40:40] to the fire department I just asked for
[40:42] something writing for the file that's so
[40:44] we can put it in there otherwise all the
[40:46] other answers we discussed and uh we
[40:48] were talking about buffers by the
[40:49] basketball court it looks like they're willing to do something over
[40:52] there yeah we did some uh vegetative
[40:55] screening on there I believe it's 35 ft
[40:58] and planted you know yeah if you live
[41:00] next door and there's a kid out there
[41:01] boing boing all day that could drive you
[41:03] a little nuts so I guess that's pretty
[41:05] much why I was asking for that right and
[41:06] we just we did meet with the fire
[41:08] department ahead of our initial
[41:10] submission um that was kind of
[41:11] summarized in our first submission but
[41:14] we can certainly get that in writing and
[41:15] they'll just give you tips on where to
[41:16] put the hydrants and maybe if they have
[41:19] a problem you turn around you know that
[41:20] would be the only other
[41:22] issue all the stuff was on the plans
[41:24] already but we we can get their
[41:26] clarification yeah something about
[41:27] additional parking spaces as well
[41:29] correct yeah they did that though they
[41:30] added additional parking and they have
[41:32] parking by the clubhouse as well so
[41:34] there is additional um gas parking just
[41:36] real quick we added uh three spaces up near the turnaround this this was
[41:40] additional parking that was added in
[41:42] this location and we pushed a little bit
[41:43] out there as well I forget the total
[41:45] additional I think it was a 12 or it's a
[41:47] bunch but it's not required it's just
[41:49] that every one of these developments I
[41:51] get the calls my neighbor had a party
[41:53] and there were cars parked up and down
[41:55] the road and we couldn't get by and you
[41:56] know so that's why I asked for a little
[41:58] extra maybe in the new code when we're
[42:00] doing it we're going to require an extra
[42:01] half a spot per unit that'll that'll fix
[42:03] it
[42:06] too you have anything else
[42:10] mik that's it I'm sorry rich I you had
[42:13] well I I have comments this is still in
[42:15] a preliminary phase on the grand
[42:17] scheming thing so two applications were
[42:18] submitted one is for a subdivision one
[42:21] is for a site plan I'm pretty anal I
[42:23] like to have the whole subdivision no
[42:25] matter what's backing it up be as an
[42:27] entire package in this case I had to uh
[42:30] go back and forth between the site plan
[42:31] and whatnot and so kind of addressing
[42:33] what Mike said he was answering
[42:35] questions that he asked but they would
[42:37] answered in the site plan versus the
[42:38] subdivision so it was kind of a little
[42:40] confusing that way and would' like to
[42:42] have a submission as a full submission I
[42:44] know it kills more trees but it keeps it
[42:47] clean um as for the
[42:50] subdivision um you know there's comments
[42:53] there that need to be moving forward uh
[42:55] but it's more the site plan that we want
[42:57] to talk about uh they've uh started
[43:00] addressing the comments the road is one
[43:02] of the big issues um uh that I guess
[43:05] Mike just talked to superintendent Stern
[43:07] about ownership uh if you know the other
[43:11] thing is is is the town going to own the
[43:13] water and sewer here right if it's not
[43:14] going to be a Town Road the town may not
[43:16] take ownership of the water and sewer
[43:18] that's the thing uh the storm water
[43:20] infrastructure would be the homeowners
[43:22] association um you have those type of
[43:25] issues that kind of need to be talked
[43:27] about and addressed uh the other P issue
[43:29] is in in one of my in my memo for the
[43:31] site plan uh
[43:33] ultimately both the sewer and water
[43:35] we're going to and for traffic we're
[43:37] going to ask for escrow to be put up so
[43:39] that it can be assessed it's not
[43:40] assessing the plan that inside is put
[43:43] forward they know what they're doing
[43:44] with that it's an assessment of the
[43:46] capacity of our infrastructure uh that
[43:49] sewage is going to go to a pump station
[43:51] don't know if that pump station is
[43:53] sufficient for it we did that for
[43:55] Centennial this isn't the first time
[43:57] we've looked at that when you have uh
[44:01] you know subdivisions and site plans of
[44:04] this nature it's a different ball game
[44:06] single family homes or four five
[44:08] bedroomroom homes different story than
[44:10] what they're adding here so that
[44:12] assessment of our infrastructure needs
[44:14] to really be looked at um we have you
[44:16] know again we have a comprehensive plan
[44:18] that's coming out there that says you
[44:20] know build baby build uh in in our sewer
[44:23] and water areas but our sewer and water
[44:24] areas can only handle so much can only
[44:27] give you so much water I can't you can't
[44:29] turn on the tap and have more water
[44:30] Vicki can attest to that over on Duke
[44:32] Drive she has her issues when they built
[44:34] that over there right so those are the
[44:37] bigger comments that need to be looked
[44:38] at so I would recommend maybe starting
[44:40] with the escrow to move forward with
[44:42] sewer and water I think the road
[44:44] dedication is a big thing maybe they
[44:45] want to meet with the superintendent the
[44:47] suggestion on the road dedication if
[44:49] it's not going to be dedicated to the
[44:50] town I would still build at the Town
[44:52] specs someday in the future maybe the
[44:55] future the next superintendent may want
[44:57] it but it you know it'll be a different
[44:59] animal and they have to do more work as
[45:01] a homeowners association put the money
[45:03] up front now then they don't have to
[45:04] worry about it in the future but again
[45:07] that's up to the developer and that's up
[45:08] to all the various people that'll be
[45:10] involved that's what I got right now all
[45:13] right thank you and in October Mr
[45:15] chairman when they made the initial
[45:16] submission the first thing you started
[45:18] considering was how to deal with Seeker
[45:20] um so obviously you have two routes to
[45:22] pursue an application like this moving
[45:24] toward a negative declaration or a
[45:26] positive declaration where they would do
[45:27] a full environmental impact statement
[45:29] this is a large project so you've given
[45:31] the the developer the benefit of the
[45:33] doubt by saying we have some issues tell
[45:35] us about those issues so the first and
[45:37] foremost one related to the aesthetic
[45:39] issues associated with the project so
[45:41] Zach I'm sure he'll talk about it in a
[45:43] minute they've done some work with
[45:44] respect to that it needs to be done
[45:45] there's a little more work that needs to
[45:47] be done with respect to that um but I
[45:49] think it would be prudent to bring in as
[45:51] Rich indicated our um engineering
[45:54] consultants and our traffic Consultants
[45:55] to help us with the disc discuss of
[45:57] whether they need an impact statement or
[45:59] not um so that's an ongoing conversation
[46:02] um and I think that's that's in the
[46:05] meantime we can make progress on some of
[46:07] these technical issues as well so we're
[46:08] not delaying anybody or anything but
[46:11] ultimately you're going to have to get
[46:12] your arms around whether or not you we
[46:14] requiring an environmental impact
[46:16] statement or not thank
[46:18] you yeah just
[46:21] to a couple things what's what BR what's
[46:24] the mechanism for the escrow to get that
[46:26] started just is it through the board
[46:28] well Rose will be in on Monday you work
[46:30] with rose I think there's a a value of
[46:32] typically 7500 bucks for each of I don't
[46:34] know what we do for traffic but for
[46:35] water and sewer it's about 7 500 bucks
[46:38] you'll submit all the paperwork uh as
[46:40] part of what you're doing specifically
[46:42] for water and sewer which you have
[46:44] individual reports but you need the
[46:46] supporting documentation for it they'll
[46:48] review that make comments to it and then
[46:51] you'll have to start addressing those
[46:52] comments yeah that's fine so it's it's kind of like the traffic consultant
[46:56] we sit down
[46:57] SE just to ref I mean we provided an
[47:00] expanded eaf with our initial submission
[47:02] that was I don't know how many pages it
[47:04] was 300 Pages you know the traffic
[47:07] discussion is is in there and address
[47:09] well we no we think it's addressed the
[47:12] visual analysis which we heard at the
[47:14] initial meeting from you guys was a was
[47:16] a concern that needed more information
[47:18] and we provided some and we can talk
[47:20] about that you know there there's a lot
[47:22] of documentation there that we really
[47:24] haven't gotten a lot of comments on on
[47:27] to date and I know that the water and
[47:29] sewer is going to be you know pushed out
[47:31] to Consultants with escar i i we totally
[47:34] understand that but there's a
[47:36] significant amount of info there so I'll
[47:38] confirm they they submitted a a quality
[47:40] package of information but we need to go
[47:42] through that in a very deliberate
[47:44] methodical manner to make sure we're
[47:46] making the right decisions here so oh
[47:48] it's not criticism Zach what you
[47:49] submitted it's that we may need to
[47:51] repackage that or or develop it in a in
[47:53] a more thorough manner understood
[47:57] so just if you want me to get into the
[47:59] visual stuff a little bit or I can take
[48:02] questions from the board however yeah
[48:03] let's take some
[48:04] questions um it anybody have any
[48:07] questions the uh basketball court how
[48:10] close is it to the closest
[48:15] structure existing yeah my eyes are to
[48:19] the left is exis yeah I that's
[48:23] like over 100 fet over 100 ft the
[48:28] existing this existing building here
[48:29] yeah it's 100 ft topographically is it
[48:32] higher or lower I think would be higher
[48:34] right we're yeah we're above them you
[48:36] were above above correct
[48:38] yep can you turn to the page that uh
[48:42] shows the uh you had sketched in uh a
[48:46] roof line from the view from Route Six
[48:49] yeah absolutely the the visual yeah yeah
[48:52] yep
[49:14] I think that's it no this this is from
[49:17] Street
[49:20] no okay okay okay got it
[49:29] right and I think this was actually one
[49:30] of Pat's comments number 10
[49:33] so this label proposed Town Homes Beyond
[49:36] right so these trees that you see
[49:39] directly behind PTY this is the
[49:42] elevation of the buildings Beyond those
[49:44] trees that you see right tight to the
[49:46] back of the existing development the the solid line is the the new
[49:52] developments roof line excuse yes the
[49:55] solid blue line is is the buildings
[49:57] placed where they would sit looking
[49:59] Beyond right the red dots is the grade
[50:02] but as you can see in the image
[50:04] obviously like this one's an easy one
[50:06] for example right there's not going to
[50:07] be a building over top of an existing
[50:08] building it sits behind those behind
[50:11] this building behind the trees that are
[50:13] right tight to the back of the
[50:14] development but but there's a there's an
[50:17] extensive amount
[50:19] of new development at just below the
[50:22] bridge line that will be visible from
[50:25] Route Six that
[50:27] is not there now right no the there's
[50:30] tree there's trees here that's not that
[50:32] are not there's trees between us and
[50:33] this property this we sit Beyond lower
[50:37] and it goes into a it goes up and back
[50:40] down we sit we sit we gave this a
[50:43] representative of where it would be but
[50:45] if you can see the trees right Beyond
[50:48] this so I so so we could have presented
[50:52] this and just showed you you won't see
[50:54] it because is py in the foreground or
[50:56] background B is in the foreground see
[50:58] all the houses all the all the houses
[51:00] here that's all in the foreground so so maybe I'm misinterpreting it but I'm
[51:04] under the impression that that solid
[51:07] blue line is the roof line that will be
[51:10] visible from roof it's the roof line at
[51:15] the elevation Beyond where this
[51:18] development is it's like a n so it comes
[51:20] up and then back down and back up it's
[51:22] in the lower spot so the buildings in
[51:24] front are here the buildings that buing
[51:26] below and behind and then the hill goes
[51:28] up behind that right so so effectively
[51:31] this part of the hill this hill is kind
[51:32] of even with where PTI is but these
[51:34] treat think so I think that sitting down
[51:38] so so you're saying you put the line
[51:40] there just so we know where the line is
[51:41] but in fact we wouldn't really see that
[51:43] line correct if you drew the line where
[51:45] the property is
[51:46] correct so you couldn't see those those
[51:49] houses from that angle if you're driving
[51:51] down Route Six correct the trees based
[51:53] on the study that was done the trees
[51:55] they're higher than the actual roof
[51:56] right the trees in through here which
[51:58] are which are tight to the back of the
[51:59] existing development are not we're not
[52:01] touching those they're not so how do we
[52:03] get a
[52:05] visual I I I don't mean to be pejorative
[52:08] but without that confusion how do we how
[52:10] do we get a visual of what this thing
[52:12] looks like or doesn't look like from
[52:14] Route
[52:15] Six in other words I'm concerned and
[52:19] uncomfortable the uh construction that
[52:22] is now py is going to be duplicated on
[52:25] that Ridge lineing to be visible from
[52:27] boot six how do you satisfy the visual
[52:30] that we're that I'm concerned
[52:33] with yeah do an elevation and show them
[52:36] on the elevation how it is there's a
[52:37] cross-section that can be done there's a
[52:39] cross-section that can be done from this
[52:41] intersection to and through the py
[52:44] development to our development was there
[52:46] a balloon test performed yeah was there
[52:48] was a balloon test perform we were there
[52:50] and it was very windy it Lea leaf on and
[52:53] leaf off yeah we were there in November
[52:55] Take A View From this view you're
[52:57] presenting tonight do you have a photo
[52:58] of that balloon from
[53:00] there I don't you wouldn't see it no we
[53:03] were we were there when balloon test was
[53:05] going on and it was so windy you
[53:07] couldn't even you know the balloons were
[53:08] going back and forth he even lost a
[53:10] couple
[53:11] balloons um and we had asked for this
[53:14] type of
[53:15] drawing uh to the gentlemen who were
[53:18] there butn what I'm seeing
[53:21] is it's not telling the story is what
[53:24] you're saying no with with yeah I I
[53:27] understand I I understand your concern
[53:29] it's telling a story in that this is
[53:32] what the elevations of the houses as
[53:33] they would be beyond the development
[53:36] correct but I Zach if you link this to
[53:39] crosssections through there I that's the
[53:41] way to display the if it's a you know
[53:43] cross-section from here to to where it
[53:45] is linked with the image you'll see that
[53:48] you know these proposed houses would be
[53:51] hundreds of feet beyond the py
[53:53] development right this looks like it's
[53:54] they're going to be right behind the
[53:56] Beyond is not the issue it's do I see
[53:58] them understood yeah yeah and you know
[54:01] it's it's very complex because it's on a
[54:04] ridge it's on the other Ridge behind P's
[54:07] Ridge so you've got to get a a better
[54:10] understanding of that it's not coming
[54:11] through on these
[54:14] images so I think Zach there's a little
[54:17] bit more work you could do with this to
[54:18] help us understand better
[54:21] sure yeah and does the tree line change
[54:23] because you're cutting away the hill
[54:24] behind it for the development there the
[54:26] tree line changes on our development it
[54:29] doesn't change between us correct right
[54:32] EXA could I offer another suggestion
[54:34] perhaps if you were to model this with
[54:36] just a simple SketchUp model with the
[54:38] topography um that's threedimensional
[54:40] and you can sort of move it around and
[54:42] you could bring in you know that image
[54:44] for us and we could sort of manipulate
[54:47] it that may help just a thought if
[54:49] that's if you have that
[54:50] capability sure we do have computers and
[54:53] TVs you can use so wild
[54:57] Pat you had made a comment about um
[54:59] lowering the bridge line uh and that it
[55:02] would broaden the topography making it
[55:05] more visible so is that going to be
[55:07] addressed by this cross-sectional view
[55:09] as well yeah and I think that's that's
[55:11] gives it right and if there are concerns
[55:14] how would you mitigate them okay so
[55:16] that's exactly the point and so Zach
[55:19] hasn't talked about