[0:00] To the republic for which it stands, one
[0:03] nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:07] justice for all.
[0:15] My apologies to the people who are trying to watch the
[0:19] broadcast tonight. The technology is a wonderful
[0:23] thing except for when it doesn't want to work.
[0:27] But we're up and running now.
[0:30] Gail, roll call, please.
[0:34] Mr. Carr?
[0:35] Here.
[0:35] Mr. White?
[0:36] Here.
[0:37] Dr. Schubring?
[0:38] Here.
[0:39] Mr. Gilbert?
[0:40] Here.
[0:40] Mr. Harris?
[0:42] Mr. Lillard?
[0:44] Here.
[0:45] Mr. Matthews?
[0:46] Here.
[0:48] Mr. Pikulski?
[0:48] Here.
[0:49] Ms. Emma Simmons?
[0:51] Here.
[0:51] Ms. Sarah Simmons?
[0:52] Here.
[0:53] Thank you.
[0:57] First item of business is the minutes
[1:02] of our June 9, 2026 meeting. Do we have a motion to
[1:06] approve?
[1:07] Motion to approve.
[1:08] Second.
[1:11] All in favor, say aye.
[1:12] Aye.
[1:12] Aye.
[1:14] Aye.
[1:14] Opposed?
[1:17] It's unanimous, Gail.
[1:18] Thank you.
[1:22] Open to the public.
[1:26] Let's see.
[1:30] Bruce,
[1:32] 17 Susan Trail?
[1:34] That's me.
[1:39] Good afternoon, folks.
[1:41] As usual, I only show up when I'm concerned about something.
[1:47] I noticed there's reference to
[1:50] mobile homes
[1:53] in Carroll Valley.
[1:55] I understand. I've already read that
[2:00] fine piece of legislation you prepared.
[2:03] And
[2:05] I, for one, as someone that has three
[2:09] vacant lots around the perimeter of my property, is
[2:12] concerned
[2:14] that
[2:17] you'll allow someone to bring in
[2:20] a mobile home and set it up on piers
[2:24] and have skirting around it that does not fit the
[2:29] rest of the community, especially when two blocks from
[2:33] my house,
[2:34] they're building a new home
[2:37] with a price tag of $670,000.
[2:41] And right down the street from that one, there's one that just sold for
[2:44] $699,000.
[2:48] My house ain't worth $600,000, but I'm concerned
[2:51] about the value
[2:56] allowing such
[2:59] residences like you did on High Trail.
[3:02] I believe it's High.
[3:03] It's High.
[3:04] Yeah. See, I get Hilltop and High mixed up.
[3:09] One thing I would like to suggest
[3:12] is
[3:15] you add to this,
[3:17] you don't allow any structure that's on a
[3:21] metal frame,
[3:23] and that'll take care of that type of problem,
[3:26] because HUD
[3:29] classifies mobile home as a manufactured
[3:32] housing, and like most government
[3:36] regulations, they
[3:38] sort of
[3:40] allow mobile homes not to have the
[3:43] necessary six-inch exterior walls and that
[3:47] type of construction.
[3:49] They have their own little rules about that.
[3:55] And I just don't want to see our neighborhood
[3:58] decrease in value because of mobile homes.
[4:03] We have one. I think we have two, but that one looks more like a
[4:07] conventional home.
[4:11] Put a clause in there for
[4:14] either it have a metal frame,
[4:18] or you insist on having
[4:21] a complete concrete
[4:25] perimeter foundation for it,
[4:29] because sitting on cinder blocks, even though they
[4:33] have mortar attached to them, they're sitting on concrete piers.
[4:39] That's not what our neighborhood
[4:44] wants to see.
[4:47] But
[4:48] we'll see what happens, right? So
[4:52] I was told that Carroll Valley was being forced
[4:56] by the state to
[4:59] allow mobile homes on separate lots.
[5:02] I haven't found it,
[5:04] not through the state.
[5:07] So I don't know what's going on there.
[5:10] If someone can explain it to me, I would appreciate it.
[5:13] But
[5:15] thank you very much
[5:19] for listening.
[5:20] Thank you.
[5:21] I'm glad to try to give an explanation.
[5:23] However, I fear that it's not going to satisfy you much.
[5:27] I'm sure.
[5:27] But the reality is, and it's not that the
[5:31] state is involved in any way, but there are
[5:35] federal court cases which deem it discrimination
[5:40] against single-family homes,
[5:43] mobile homes. So
[5:46] my understanding of the case law, and I think this is throughout the
[5:49] country, is when you allow single-family homes in places,
[5:53] their construction type
[5:56] isn't the issue. It's whether or not it's a single family living in it.
[6:00] Now, with that said, you can prohibit the
[6:04] mobile portion of it. So what our rules are
[6:09] Even for the house that was mentioned, I've gotten the question about that one in
[6:12] particular a lot, is if they take the tongue off
[6:16] of it, they take the wheels off of it, literally cut them all
[6:20] off, and they permanently attach it to the
[6:24] ground, it's not considered a mobile home anymore, it's considered a single
[6:28] family home. So I understand
[6:32] the concern.
[6:34] We have square footage requirements
[6:38] that are higher than many mobile homes,
[6:42] and that was intentional. I've been here that long.
[6:44] I can remember that that was put in place in that way.
[6:48] You just have to be careful on how you word your regulations,
[6:52] because you just can't outwardly discriminate against somebody
[6:56] who owns a mobile home,
[6:59] because that's federally protected.
[7:01] That's all. So I don't know that I've answered the question, but I hear what he's
[7:05] saying. But again, not unlike every other type of property use,
[7:09] you have to allow that use somewhere in the borough.
[7:12] We've talked about that a lot with zoning stuff.
[7:14] So you're not allowed to have mobile homes
[7:18] everywhere in Carroll Valley
[7:20] in our current ordinances.
[7:23] So in most of Carroll Valley,
[7:26] if they were to utilize a structure, not unlike the example he mentioned,
[7:30] they have to take steps to make it not mobile.
[7:37] So Dave, I know exactly which two houses you're talking about.
[7:40] They're right around the corner from me.
[7:43] The one that
[7:46] I'm sure you're talking about the most is the one that was built without a concrete
[7:49] foundation. It's built basically on a deck.
[7:54] Right? So that, to me, is not a permanent structure, because at some
[7:58] point, 20 years down the road, those are going to fail more than
[8:01] likely. We all know that. It's no different than building your deck, and 20
[8:05] years out, you're going to have to replace part of it because it's failing.
[8:09] And I
[8:10] drive past that thing often.
[8:13] It's terrible. Now, the other one
[8:17] that's on the corner down there-
[8:18] Mm
[8:19] ... that looks more like a traditional home, and I do
[8:22] not believe that it was built in the same manner.
[8:26] It was built more like you would expect it to be built.
[8:30] But this one, that in particular up there on High
[8:34] Trail,
[8:36] I said when I saw it going up, I said, "I don't know how that got approved
[8:40] to be built like that."
[8:41] That's a stick build.
[8:43] Yeah.
[8:44] And it is, and it can-
[8:46] Mobile home that was brought in on the trailer.
[8:49] The one on the
[8:51] piers.
[8:51] Yeah.
[8:54] That conforms to uniform construction code.
[8:57] That's allowed in the state of Pennsylvania.
[9:00] I'm in no position to
[9:04] give an opinion on whether or not it'll last forever, because I'm not an expert in
[9:08] that field.
[9:09] Me either. Common sense.
[9:11] But ultimately, we have to comply with the same laws as every other
[9:15] municipality in the state of Pennsylvania as it relates to those
[9:18] construction techniques.
[9:22] The other one is permanently affixed to the ground.
[9:24] Are we discussing-
[9:25] But we don't have a rule that says you shouldn't have
[9:29] skirting, because I think the skirting is what really makes that one jump out.
[9:32] Are we discussing manufactured homes, or are we discussing mobile homes?
[9:36] Mobile.
[9:37] There's no difference according to HUD.
[9:40] Exactly, and you have a-
[9:42] HUD calls them all manufactured homes.
[9:46] PMCA refers to them as
[9:50] mobile homes,
[9:52] but now they say they're manufactured homes.
[9:56] As far as a removable tongue and the axles, they unfold.
[10:01] And this thing, they could still take that thing apart and take it anywhere they
[10:05] wanted to if they wanted to move.
[10:08] What I was trying to say is if it comes in on a trailer, that framing of the
[10:12] trailer is still attached to the bottom of the house.
[10:15] That, as mobile homes should be allowed.
[10:18] If it's a prefab house that comes in on a trailer, they take
[10:21] pieces of it off that are already assembled, and then assemble it on a solid
[10:25] foundation.
[10:26] And according to
[10:29] what I've looked under the regulations,
[10:32] and the PMCA, they're supposed to have someone
[10:36] for the mobile home now, the one that doesn't look like a
[10:40] trailer, but it's a trailer.
[10:43] They're supposed to be certified and licensed with the state just to
[10:47] put the thing together,
[10:49] and whether they're not certified, I don't know.
[10:53] The building inspection stuff, we have PMCA do all that stuff
[10:57] for us, so I couldn't speak to really any of the items.
[11:01] But the reality is, and regardless
[11:05] of, quite frankly, anybody's opinion in the room,
[11:09] we have to do what the federal government has said.
[11:11] There's case law on it. It's discrimination.
[11:15] Single-family home, the only thing you can do is tinker around the
[11:18] edges of your rules, like having minimum square footages and things of
[11:22] that nature that make it less likely to happen.
[11:25] But otherwise-
[11:27] Or like any other...
[11:32] Which you do
[11:32] ... You can use your zoning districts.
[11:34] Why is the area with
[11:38] $600,000, $700,000 homes
[11:41] an area where you allow these mobile homes?
[11:44] Because according to the federal government, I'll say it one more time.
[11:47] According to the federal case law, according to the federal
[11:50] government, a mobile home that has had the mobile
[11:54] appurtenances removed from it and is permanently affixed to the land is a
[11:58] single family home, just like any other.
[12:01] And if you
[12:03] limit it in any way, it's discrimination.
[12:05] Are there any neighborhoods, may I ask you a question?
[12:08] Are there any neighborhoods in this borough where
[12:12] you won't allow a mobile home set up on an empty lot?
[12:19] Once they've removed that stuff, it's not a mobile home.
[12:23] Yep. So you're telling me any lot that's
[12:26] available in Carroll Valley can have a mobile home installed?
[12:32] As long as they take the wheels and tongue off.
[12:33] Yeah, if they take the-
[12:33] Again,
[12:35] where we allow single family dwellings, the federal government says that
[12:39] it's a single family dwelling if they do certain steps to make
[12:43] it non-mobile.
[12:46] That's the
[12:48] law. That governs our whole land.
[12:51] I
[12:52] don't
[12:54] want to give my opinion about whether I agree or disagree.
[12:56] Yeah.
[12:56] But it does create concern about-
[12:59] Because you don't even live in Carroll Valley, correct?
[13:02] Okay, so this has no impact on you
[13:05] personally. Professionally, yes,
[13:08] but no impact on you.
[13:09] Well, I think whether I live here or not has absolutely no bearing on today's
[13:13] conversation.
[13:13] Well, yes, it does when decisions are made and laws are written about it.
[13:16] Okay. Well, then we'll let the attorney, who also doesn't live in Carroll Valley,
[13:19] but also is paid to give them
[13:23] understandings of what the law is about whether or not I'm correct.
[13:27] Okay. I think where we're-
[13:29] Okay, I want to sit down. I understand nothing can be done.
[13:32] You're going to go ahead and do it.
[13:34] Well-
[13:34] And all I will say is-
[13:36] What I was going to follow up with is-
[13:38] ... all you folks have
[13:40] completed neighborhoods. You don't have any empty lots next door.
[13:44] Oh, I do.
[13:44] Oh, I've got three of them that I own.
[13:47] I do. I do.
[13:47] Okay. Well-
[13:47] Right next to my house
[13:49] ... y'all are putting mobile homes on them.
[13:50] Perhaps you would both-
[13:51] Perhaps to allay any concerns that he has, you might want to look at
[13:55] the minimum square footage requirements again.
[13:58] Make sure that in this day and age, that they still work.
[14:01] It's been many years since we've put that in place.
[14:03] Probably about 20 years ago, so.
[14:05] Dave, what about this? I think the reason that one particular house
[14:09] catches so much attention is because of the way it was built
[14:13] on those pylons, those wooden pylons.
[14:17] Could we make a rule or an
[14:21] ordinance, whatever it is, to say that it would have to be a concrete
[14:25] foundation?
[14:26] I would have to look into it. I'm not 100%.
[14:29] Actually, I have less than-
[14:30] Because-
[14:30] ... 50% understanding really of what the laws would be for that
[14:32] ... because I think if it had been built more traditionally like that, it would be
[14:36] probably no issue or certainly much less of an issue.
[14:40] We can look into it and report back to council.
[14:43] Can I-
[14:43] I understand that.
[14:45] We have some kind of a ordinance that says existing
[14:49] or new buildings have to conform to
[14:55] appearance.
[14:59] No, we can't
[15:02] regulate appearances at all,
[15:06] but
[15:08] I'm trying to think of an instance that might be
[15:11] similar.
[15:14] I have something.
[15:15] If, I think what Bruce was bringing up, I think you're doing it because of
[15:19] the advertisement for new Chapter 22,
[15:23] correct?
[15:24] Yes.
[15:25] Okay.
[15:25] That's all I'm doing. I-
[15:26] Chapter 22 isn't even on the agenda tonight, and we haven't
[15:30] scheduled the public hearing on it yet.
[15:32] Yes. Yeah.
[15:33] The issue,
[15:35] what we can do at this point, as the planning committee,
[15:40] and look at what was in old 22
[15:45] versus what is in new 22.
[15:49] Because 22
[15:52] hasn't been finalized.
[15:56] So you're raising an issue
[15:59] the planning committee could give us some feedback on, so that
[16:03] we'll know how does this
[16:07] new proposal
[16:09] differ from the old proposal?
[16:12] When council received it, we saw the whole new, but
[16:16] we did not see what was removed
[16:20] versus what was added. So really, council can't
[16:24] really give you a good answer,
[16:27] but Dave has told you what the law is.
[16:30] Yes.
[16:30] So
[16:32] the question is,
[16:34] does the new document differ from what has been in place for
[16:38] a very long time?
[16:39] I just want to highlight though, that most of what we just talked about is our
[16:43] zoning ordinance regulations, not subdivision and land development
[16:47] ordinance regulations. Subdivision and land development's references to
[16:51] mobile homes are related to mobile home parks, and they are
[16:55] only permitted in a-
[16:58] Okay, so Chapter 22 is only going to be for parks.
[17:02] That's what I'm hearing.
[17:02] Mobile home parks.
[17:04] Parks.
[17:06] Yes, that's true. Because it's a-
[17:08] Sir, I can show you right now, because where it says, "Unless they're
[17:12] built on the individual property." It states
[17:16] that very clearly, more than one time.
[17:22] Yeah. Yeah.
[17:23] Okay. I'll come back to the next council meeting instead of dragging it out
[17:27] through here.
[17:28] Yeah. Yeah. We-
[17:29] And I'll have more details
[17:29] ... we're not at the public hearing stage yet.
[17:32] Okay. I'll wait until the public hearing.
[17:34] Are we going to have that tonight?
[17:36] No, it's not on the agenda.
[17:38] No, it needed to be advertised for a longer period of time, and we're still
[17:42] awaiting comments from the Adams County planning department on it.
[17:46] So it'll be
[17:48] September on the-
[17:49] Great. Then I'll be back.
[17:51] But it would-
[17:54] Mr. President.
[17:54] That's all right. It gives us something to look at-
[17:57] Sure
[17:57] ... in the meantime.
[17:58] But thank you for your cooperation.
[18:00] Mr. President?
[18:01] Yes.
[18:02] I would like to put an addendum to that then.
[18:07] I don't believe there's anything in our regulation or codes
[18:10] pertaining to data centers,
[18:15] and that's becoming a hot item,
[18:18] and I think it's something that we need to address one way or the other.
[18:22] Either permit, not permit, or whatever
[18:28] The first time I thought about it, I said, "Well, we don't have any place that's
[18:31] big enough to put a data center."
[18:35] And a little bit of research says, "Oh no, all you need is
[18:39] about a half an acre."
[18:41] And so I don't think we talk to that at all in any of
[18:45] our ordinances, and I think it's time we do
[18:49] try to get ahead of the
[18:51] power curve on that.
[18:53] Yes, please. I'm from Loudoun County, Virginia.
[18:58] There is where they have
[19:01] 95% of the data centers.
[19:03] Yeah. And that is a
[19:07] big topic now. Lots of municipalities are working on that, I'm
[19:11] sure. Zach has been involved in it as well.
[19:16] Primarily, I would deal with that through your zoning ordinance.
[19:19] The idea that you don't want any other use that
[19:23] you realistically don't want to have, you want to use your map and districts-
[19:27] ... makes sense. And then beyond that, what kind of-
[19:29] That's what he said
[19:29] ... dimensional criteria and whatnot.
[19:32] They're just examples.
[19:34] More common in your townships, I think, where there's a little bit more
[19:38] land.
[19:42] Zach,
[19:44] are data centers defined as commercial?
[19:47] I don't think your zoning ordinance addresses data centers-
[19:50] At all
[19:50] ... at all right now.
[19:51] I agree that-
[19:52] The point from Mr. Carr would be, I think your point, I don't want to speak for
[19:56] you, was let's make sure the zoning ordinance addresses it in some way, so
[20:00] that if there was
[20:02] interest in developing a data center in the borough, you'd have something on the
[20:06] books to point to and say, "Well, you're restricted to only doing it here, and
[20:09] you've got to abide by this set of criteria." Whereas right now, there's really
[20:13] nothing.
[20:14] Let me ask a different way. So,
[20:19] would data centers or any other business, would this
[20:23] always be considered a business? So that if we have zoned only for
[20:27] business, it would have to be in a business area. At least we'd have that much.
[20:33] I
[20:34] suppose you could try to shoehorn it into some other broader
[20:37] commercial or industrial. But the rub there
[20:41] then is even if that works, you haven't legislated the
[20:47] lot size,
[20:49] all the dimensional criteria that you probably would want to sit down and think
[20:51] about and say, "What are the setbacks for this thing?
[20:54] What are the height requirements?" So, in other words,
[20:58] you'd be trying to shoehorn it into something where it probably doesn't fit that
[21:01] great anyway.
[21:04] But that's why I think most municipalities have been just
[21:08] tackling it head on and creating a use in the zoning ordinance, calling it data
[21:12] center,
[21:14] battery energy storage system, as well, and then
[21:17] putting it right into your zoning ordinance and saying, "Only in this district,
[21:21] only by conditional exception, and then subject to this
[21:25] set of criteria."
[21:26] Yeah. The three big ones there are noise,
[21:30] water, and electricity.
[21:32] We know what that is. We just got to get in front of it.
[21:36] Yeah.
[21:37] Could I suggest that you just recommend that the planning commission look at that
[21:40] issue? And then could I also add a second comment, which
[21:44] is another topic that had been in my mind for you guys to think about, and
[21:48] that was solar farms.
[21:54] Sorry, we have a few places they
[21:56] could put them.
[21:58] Yeah.
[21:58] And Pennsylvania in particular,
[22:00] they're getting as much pressure from solar farms.
[22:03] Didn't I ask you that three months ago?
[22:04] I don't know.
[22:08] Just didn't ask in the right context.
[22:09] Solar and data centers are now on the agenda for the
[22:13] planning commission.
[22:14] No, they weren't doing-
[22:15] Congratulations.
[22:16] Yeah. Thank you.
[22:20] No additional work for you.
[22:21] Okay.
[22:25] We'll be right there, huh?
[22:27] All right.
[22:29] There's no ordinances and resolutions on the agenda
[22:32] for tonight, so we'll move on to the mayor's report.
[22:36] Ralph?
[22:42] One second. Or do you want it?
[22:47] Next slide.
[22:52] I'm going to give a short version of the police report.
[22:55] The chief's not here. He's at Fairfield,
[23:00] their meeting, and then he's going to here later this
[23:04] evening.
[23:06] Next slide.
[23:11] To the part I just want to address is National Night Out,
[23:15] August the 4th. We have it each year,
[23:19] 5 to
[23:20] 8.
[23:22] Purpose is to strengthen community spirit,
[23:26] foster
[23:27] positive
[23:34] residents. Should come.
[23:41] Have inviting different
[23:42] organizations. Appearance.
[23:48] I'll read some of the people who they have invited.
[23:52] Adams County 4-H, Adams County
[23:56] Department of Probation, Adams County Sheriff's
[24:00] Department,
[24:01] Adams Regional EMS,
[24:04] the American Bikers on Mission, Ashley
[24:08] and Carroll Gardens Police Department, the FBI Seeing
[24:12] Eye Dog, Fish and Boat Department,
[24:16] Conservation and Natural Resources, Collaborating for
[24:20] Youth, Neighbors Helping Neighbors, Fountaindale Fire
[24:23] Department, Healthy Adams, PA Game Commission,
[24:28] Reverend
[24:30] Raden, right? R-A-D-E-N.
[24:34] Raven Rock. Thank you. Raven Rock Fire Department
[24:39] and others.
[24:41] I think
[24:43] kids who attend will want...
[24:48] I guess they're going to hand out a form.
[24:50] They do a scavenger hunt, which you stop at each
[24:54] of the places that are in this
[24:58] arena that they're going to
[25:02] sign off on, and then they're eligible to win
[25:06] a bicycle
[25:08] helmet. And there'll be food,
[25:12] so they come for food, ice cream.
[25:16] So if you have a chance,
[25:18] please come 5:00 to 8:00.
[25:21] May I interject for just a moment, Ron?
[25:24] Sure.
[25:24] I'd like to thank Bikers on a Mission for donating the prizes for
[25:28] National Night Out. We are giving away three bicycles and three helmets-
[25:34] Yes
[25:34] ... in completion of the scavenger hunt.
[25:38] And they were gracious enough to give us the
[25:42] means to do that this year. So I just wanted to do a shout-out to them before.
[25:45] Yeah, no, that's great.
[25:47] They'll get it in other places, but tonight they get it now. Thank you.
[25:51] Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for bringing that up.
[25:54] Next slide, please.
[25:56] Around town. Next slide, please.
[25:59] I heard about the goat yoga in the park,
[26:03] and everybody seemed to enjoy it very much.
[26:07] I don't know how,
[26:09] do the goats get older and-
[26:15] Yeah, right.
[26:16] Gail? Yes. Okay.
[26:18] Yes. As the goats get older,
[26:20] they do not travel as well as the little goats.
[26:24] So we did have two
[26:28] events of goat yoga in the park, and now you would have to
[26:32] go to,
[26:33] I guess, the farm where they live to do that.
[26:36] But as the new crop of kids,
[26:40] the babies, come out,
[26:42] we will offer that again, if not this fall, then hopefully next
[26:45] spring. Very popular. 20 to 30
[26:49] people at least
[26:51] signing up for that program.
[26:53] Thank you, Gail. Next slide, please.
[26:58] Well, could you say a few words about the July
[27:02] 4th event? I think it was fantastic.
[27:06] And one of the things, I'll just bring it up, I don't know if Gail's
[27:10] going to mention it.
[27:12] There was a tent
[27:14] that was as large as the basketball field,
[27:18] and
[27:20] it was being used to get under for shade.
[27:24] Yes?
[27:25] And it so happened it rained,
[27:29] and everybody went to the tent. Some people went back to their
[27:32] cars,
[27:34] but I think the tent really was a fantastic idea.
[27:38] Gail?
[27:40] It was a great day. It was very warm.
[27:43] They were calling for some heat advisories and some
[27:47] issues. We were able to have cooling stations.
[27:52] So everybody that was involved that made that happen, thank you.
[27:57] The
[27:59] money that we had for the event this year, we were able
[28:03] to
[28:05] have some 250th giveaways.
[28:10] The fans were a hit,
[28:12] and not just the fans of the
[28:15] bands, but the fans that used to take the heat away,
[28:19] because they were
[28:21] very, very popular. Otherwise, the fireworks went off without
[28:25] a hitch.
[28:26] We had the cars came back this year.
[28:30] They seemed to also be a hit, and I saw several of our
[28:34] elected officials there. Thank you very much.
[28:36] And a lot of our
[28:39] community.
[28:41] It was just an awesome day.
[28:44] If you want to see the pictures, ronspictures.net.
[28:47] And you can see all the pictures. Dave got some interesting
[28:52] pictures, since he was up on the top of the mountain
[28:56] and seeing them being shot off.
[28:59] So thank you, Dave. Yep. Next slide, please.
[29:03] Food truck every Friday through September.
[29:08] And the menu changes, I believe. Right, Gail?
[29:12] Yes, it does. There's a different setup each week.
[29:15] We have been trying to get it out by Monday or
[29:19] Tuesday onto our social medias, on the
[29:22] front sign.
[29:24] This has been a phenomenal new
[29:28] addition to the Parks and Rec committee.
[29:30] I
[29:32] give them kudos. There is somebody from the Parks and Rec committee there
[29:36] every week
[29:38] to help out. And we have three or four
[29:41] trucks,
[29:44] usually two food, some type of a specialty drink, and
[29:47] then a dessert truck. And
[29:52] it's just phenomenal. Everybody loves it.
[29:54] There's people here in our park every Friday night.
[29:57] I encourage anybody who hasn't been down to please stop
[30:01] down. You get to know your neighbors and
[30:05] enjoy some delicious food as well.
[30:08] Next slide, please.
[30:11] I'll turn this over to Emma.
[30:13] Thank you, Ron.
[30:15] I'm happy to report to council that the youth reading program that you
[30:19] approved last meeting is fully up and running.
[30:23] Under the name Little Readers and Local Leaders, we had our first event
[30:27] on July 20th.
[30:29] We had two youth community members participate in the themed story time
[30:33] and craft Led by planning commission member Lisa McLeod
[30:37] Simmons. We have two more upcoming dates, August
[30:40] 17th and September 21st. They're open to everyone in the
[30:44] community,
[30:45] and the council can email me regarding interest in volunteering.
[30:50] And thank you again for this opportunity.
[30:53] Thank you.
[30:55] Next slide, please.
[30:57] Upcoming events. Next slide, please.
[31:01] Throw it out of bounds for August, outside Carroll Valley.
[31:05] One, I don't know if you have attended this.
[31:09] It's going to be played all the way through September the 7th,
[31:13] and that is in the evening at 7:00 p.m.,
[31:17] the bugle is played, "Taps."
[31:20] It's really an emotional moment,
[31:24] and especially when you hear it with echo and so forth.
[31:28] Next thing, which is right next door to us, the
[31:34] Peach. This one is in Eagleville,
[31:39] August 8th and 9th. If you like peach, they got peach
[31:43] different ways, and you can see them.
[31:46] Peach pie, sugar peach, peach bread,
[31:50] peach milkshake, whatever. Next slide, please.
[31:54] Yeah, this is the one I was thinking about. Granite Hill Camping Resort.
[31:58] It's right down 116.
[32:01] August the 13th to the 16th, the 91st
[32:05] Gettysburg Bluegrass Festival. And then
[32:09] there is the Jeep Fest. You'll see different
[32:13] vintage
[32:16] Jeeps, military Jeeps.
[32:19] And where is that? The World War II American
[32:22] Experience Museum, which is in Gettysburg.
[32:27] Next slide, please.
[32:30] There's a blood drive September
[32:34] the 18th,
[32:36] and you could see,
[32:38] I'll read it, parts of it, but you can look and see what it says.
[32:42] Meeting room here, noon to 5:00. You
[32:45] should call and make an appointment, but walk-ins
[32:49] are
[32:50] welcome.
[32:52] Wait a little while.
[32:54] Next slide, please.
[32:57] Next slide, please.
[33:03] Next slide, please.
[33:11] Next slide, please. Thanks for listening.
[33:17] Thank you.
[33:20] Up is the
[33:23] fire and EMS reports, Arms, Fairfield Fire
[33:27] Department, and Fountain Dale Fire Department all submitted reports
[33:30] for
[33:32] the month of June.
[33:34] Any questions?
[33:36] I got
[33:37] something I'd like to say. I got a call from Bill Jacobs a couple weeks back.
[33:43] Bill's been here recently making his feelings known
[33:47] about the whole situation with the way the money is
[33:50] divided up,
[33:52] and he was
[33:55] asking me about that again, and I just told him I would bring
[33:59] his comments to the council and just
[34:03] lay them out here. He said to me that apparently at
[34:07] this point, they were supposed to have received
[34:09] $80,000, and they've only received 75,000.
[34:13] I'm just telling you what he said.
[34:15] He brought up the 87.5% versus
[34:19] 12.5% again with me. And yeah,
[34:23] I see the look on your face.
[34:25] But I told him I would bring it and put it out here, but I thought all
[34:29] these items were taken care of by the
[34:34] fire committee after Bill was here that time.
[34:37] So it's just...
[34:43] I think he was just
[34:44] reiterating what he has said in the past.
[34:47] But I promised him I would bring it up, so there you go.
[34:51] Well,
[34:53] council said no.
[34:54] He was concerned about that 5K,
[34:57] what he perceives as a 5K shortage.
[35:01] And he talked a lot about
[35:08] the possibility that
[35:12] Fairfield Fire
[35:16] might not be around too many years.
[35:19] That's
[35:20] not unique to Fairfield Fire.
[35:22] Yeah, so-
[35:23] That's a problem that we have statewide.
[35:28] And what Mr. Jacobs wanted to do
[35:32] was to take half of the money that we give
[35:35] to Fountain Dale
[35:39] to them,
[35:40] to
[35:41] Fairfield,
[35:43] which would be
[35:45] an acceleration of the problem
[35:49] if Fountain Dale might have.
[35:52] And this council
[35:54] said no,
[35:56] and Mr. Jacobs just can't accept no for an
[35:59] answer.
[36:02] And
[36:04] the
[36:05] last orderly meeting was rescheduled.
[36:09] We'll have one again in August.
[36:12] I know that Mike wants to be involved with that.
[36:16] Dave will be involved with that.
[36:19] And I plan to go,
[36:21] and he can complain to us again.
[36:24] But
[36:26] there's no entitlements.
[36:29] These are taxpayer dollars that the council can choose
[36:34] how much of it goes to what fire department
[36:39] And Mr. Jacobs seems to think that he deserves
[36:43] damn near everything,
[36:46] and that
[36:48] is unacceptable.
[36:52] At least for me, it's very unacceptable.
[36:55] I can't see how one fire chief would do
[36:59] anything
[37:00] that would hurt another fire company,
[37:04] and that's what he's trying to do.
[37:07] It's unacceptable.
[37:14] And I know that's probably a violation of decorum, but it's
[37:18] a statement of reality. Sorry I even had to bring it up.
[37:22] Oh, it's not your fault, Mike. He's been doing this for years.
[37:25] He has, yeah.
[37:29] But
[37:31] any other issues on this?
[37:37] Well, thank you to Arms Fairfield Fire Department and
[37:40] Fountain Dale Fire Department for their monthly report.
[37:45] Committee reports. Finance committee
[37:49] budget year to date. Ron?
[37:52] Ron's gone.
[37:54] Well, thank you to Ron for the Finance Committee report.
[37:57] Anybody got any questions on the Finance Committee report?
[38:04] Hearing none, we'll move on.
[38:07] Nature Trail and Ad Hoc Committee Trail Loop project
[38:13] for advertisement. There's a
[38:16] sizable document that Gail has been working
[38:19] on that addresses
[38:23] the bid
[38:25] for this.
[38:27] And so,
[38:29] it's already been blessed by
[38:33] GMS,
[38:35] and it's been reviewed.
[38:38] It's been reviewed by the
[38:43] attorney and
[38:46] our funding administrator, as well as being presented
[38:50] forward by the committee with their approval.
[38:52] So it has met all of those,
[38:55] and it is before you to advertise for
[38:59] bids.
[39:00] I'll make a motion we put it out for advertisement.
[39:04] Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second?
[39:07] Second.
[39:09] Any discussion?
[39:13] All in favor say aye. Aye.
[39:15] Aye.
[39:15] Aye.
[39:17] Opposed?
[39:19] Dave wants to-
[39:19] I just wanted to add, it didn't need to be during the discussion for me to say it,
[39:23] but I wanted to point out to those of you, just in case you didn't
[39:27] notice, most of the committee is in the room this evening.
[39:31] That's how much they believe in this project,
[39:35] and how much they were hoping to get your support to move on that
[39:39] step. And I know that they're excited to bring this
[39:42] project a step closer to construction.
[39:44] So, I want to make sure that we thank them, because they have been putting in a
[39:48] lot of time and effort to getting it to this stage.
[39:51] So thank you to those members who are here.
[39:54] I think they're doing a great job, and I'm looking forward to
[39:58] that trail being built.
[40:00] Greatly appreciate your support.
[40:02] Thank you.
[40:06] Okay.
[40:07] Parks and Recs Committee, we received their report.
[40:14] And
[40:16] thank you to Jenna Gerrell for that report.
[40:20] Anybody have any questions on the
[40:23] Parks and Recs Committee report?
[40:25] I would recommend to the Parks and Rec that they consider an
[40:29] adult
[40:31] affair. Say, like, a Christmas
[40:34] dinner
[40:36] dance party.
[40:43] Is-
[40:43] Okay, I'll make sure we mention that.
[40:45] Yes.
[40:46] She didn't say it, but she was thinking it.
[40:47] Yes, actually, I was. Yep, I can definitely take that back to them.
[40:51] We have tried that in the past, and it didn't
[40:55] take off quite as well as we wanted it to, but we have some new blood on that
[40:58] committee, and they are pretty
[41:01] knowledgeable, so we'll try that one more time,
[41:05] absolutely.
[41:05] And they have been hitting home runs on their ideas and things that they have been
[41:09] doing, so.
[41:09] They really have, so
[41:11] we'll definitely give that to them to try again.
[41:18] Next item up is Zoning Hearing Board
[41:22] vacancy. The Zoning Hearing Board.
[41:25] We have one applicant, Jeff Sable.
[41:30] Do we have a-
[41:33] See-
[41:33] ... motion to approve?
[41:35] Yeah. Is Jeff in the audience by any chance?
[41:39] No?
[41:41] Make a motion we approve.
[41:43] I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
[41:51] All in favor say aye. Aye.
[41:52] Aye.
[41:53] Aye.
[41:53] Opposed?
[41:56] Gail, it's unanimous.
[41:58] Thank you very much.
[42:03] Next up is the treasurer's report for June.
[42:09] Are there any questions on the treasurer's report?
[42:15] Hearing none, do we have a motion to approve? Motion to approve.
[42:19] Second.
[42:21] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
[42:26] Hearing none, all in favor say aye. Aye.
[42:28] Aye.
[42:29] Aye.
[42:29] Opposed?
[42:31] It's unanimous, Gail.
[42:32] Thank you.
[42:37] Okay, the next item is a storage facility construction bid
[42:46] Yes.
[42:47] New month, same result.
[42:49] There were no bids received
[42:53] for the bid opening of July 9th
[42:57] for our review.
[42:59] That was the second attempt to receive bids.
[43:03] So now according to
[43:08] state law, we can go out and
[43:12] negotiate with any builder that we want.
[43:17] So I guess the question is,
[43:21] does the
[43:21] council
[43:26] want to authorize the borough staff to contact builders
[43:30] and submit quotes for consideration at the August 11,
[43:34] 2026 meeting?
[43:36] You don't need a motion, just direction?
[43:41] A motion wouldn't hurt, but...
[43:42] Okay. Motion to authorize the staff to go ahead and negotiate as appropriate.
[43:47] I'd like to amend that motion to the September meeting.
[43:49] August 11th's coming on pretty quick.
[43:52] It's only a couple of weeks.
[43:53] It is. However,
[43:55] because we didn't get any bids on the 9th,
[44:00] I had spoken to the attorney and to Brad
[44:04] Sanders, our municipal services supervisor, and
[44:08] asked him,
[44:10] once I got permission, that this would be something that we could ask to do.
[44:13] I got permission to
[44:16] bug Brad. So Brad has already been doing that and
[44:19] making phone calls. He fully believes that he should
[44:23] have two or three quotes
[44:26] in August, which is why we said the August
[44:29] meeting. So we didn't put it off
[44:33] one more month with the fact that we don't have a place to put salt.
[44:37] Brad feels that that is putting us really close.
[44:41] Worst case scenario is in the August meeting
[44:45] we don't have two or three for you, and we have to push it to
[44:49] September. But if we have what is considered to be good quotes and
[44:53] enough of them, you would have the opportunity to do that in August.
[44:57] If you don't think we have enough, you just push it for one more month.
[45:01] I'll retract the amendment.
[45:03] Thank you.
[45:03] What-
[45:05] Okay
[45:06] ... any idea why we did not get any bids?
[45:10] From what I understand, it was
[45:13] people have a lot of work right now,
[45:16] so if they
[45:19] decided to put the work into it, the bid would be high.
[45:23] And so Brad is now being able to talk to them and
[45:27] say, "Look,
[45:29] we want you to do this. We want to see what we're up against
[45:33] price-wise," that type of thing,
[45:35] because we have to do something.
[45:38] So he's hoping to be able to get that by actually talking to them.
[45:42] We did hand out from the first one to the second one.
[45:46] I personally emailed packets to
[45:50] companies that we thought would
[45:52] bid. Did not get them back, but they have a full plate.
[45:57] It's not something that they want to do right now.
[46:00] If we had it for the spring, we probably would've gotten bids, but
[46:04] because we want it this fall, it's harder to get them.
[46:09] I honestly don't anticipate it costing additional money.
[46:13] I think that because we've made it to this step, I think it's going to
[46:17] help financially, if you want the truth, because we're able to negotiate
[46:21] and have
[46:23] open discussions with contractors and find the right thing.
[46:27] So, and I don't want to steal Gail's thunder because she's been working hard,
[46:30] but, I did talk to Brad about this this afternoon, and he told me
[46:34] he was certain he would have at least two within a week after
[46:38] you authorize it.
[46:40] So he's been calling people he knows in that business ever
[46:44] since not getting any more bids. So he's lined up a couple of people
[46:48] ready to be responsive the third time.
[46:51] All
[46:56] right.
[46:58] We didn't get a second, did we?
[46:59] Yes. I have Mr. White and Mr. Krukosky.
[47:04] Any other discussion?
[47:08] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
[47:10] Aye.
[47:12] Opposed?
[47:14] Dave, you still there?
[47:19] Yes.
[47:19] Okay.
[47:22] It's unanimous, Gail.
[47:23] Thank you.
[47:27] Okay, next up is the Adams County Library letter.
[47:33] This is in your packet purely for informational purposes.
[47:37] They had specifically asked that council see the letter.
[47:41] So,
[47:42] once again, thank the Adams County Library System for the partnership
[47:46] that we've had now for almost 10 years.
[47:50] Mm-hmm.
[47:51] Almost 10 years.
[47:53] And we're glad to have them here and
[47:57] it's nice to see some statistics that show the
[48:01] impact that they have on the community. Thank you to them.
[48:04] Now, the letter,
[48:10] that relates to our line item in the budget
[48:16] for them is our support of the library,
[48:20] correct?
[48:21] I think that they're also asking you to consider an
[48:25] additional donation.
[48:28] Over and above the budgeted?
[48:31] For next year.
[48:33] On the-
[48:33] This is in anticipation of your next budget cycle
[48:36] ...
[48:40] oh
[48:52] Okay. GMS has provided their report
[48:56] to us. Do we have any questions
[49:00] or comments regarding the grant funding updates?
[49:10] On to lot sales.
[49:12] You know what? That was probably as good a time of any to give you a couple of
[49:15] updates on some projects. You probably couldn't miss
[49:19] one when you came in.
[49:21] Mm-hmm.
[49:21] You can see the pickleball court construction started
[49:25] yesterday?
[49:26] It did.
[49:27] That's on the agenda.
[49:29] Gail just said that, but she didn't say it as nice.
[49:34] We'll update you then.
[49:36] Did you talk about the Lake Kay Park, and is that on the agenda?
[49:39] Yes.
[49:40] Can I ask a question about the wall-
[49:41] Construction started at Lake Kay on that project as
[49:45] well. The dock has been built. It's under construction right
[49:49] now. And I got to tell you, our guys are just knocking it
[49:53] out of the park. I walked it yesterday. It's really awesome.
[49:57] They're proud of it, too, so I can't wait for everybody to get a chance to take a
[50:00] look at it when it's finished. And it's going to be quite the improvement.
[50:04] That was also one of our grants that we received for that project, too.
[50:08] I actually had a resident tell me last night how good that
[50:12] project looks. That's not done, but it looks great.
[50:18] It's
[50:21] 40% done, and it makes the park look or hundred times-
[50:25] It looks great
[50:25] ... better already.
[50:26] Yeah.
[50:26] So it's
[50:28] really going to turn out nice, and actually,
[50:30] there's been many work hours since I saw it yesterday.
[50:33] So they're making great progress on it.
[50:36] The dock itself should be finished.
[50:38] We have to decide on a railing yet, so it'll be a little while
[50:42] till it's ready to go, but that's one of our projects that we plan on having done
[50:46] here before the
[50:48] leaves start to fall.
[50:50] So I have a question about the pickleball courts, because this was a
[50:54] hot topic on social media yesterday.
[50:56] Was it?
[50:56] It was.
[50:57] Mm-hmm.
[50:57] Because somebody said, "What's going on at the park?" And somebody immediately
[51:01] said, "That's pickleball courts." And somebody made the comment
[51:05] that as soon as other people in the surrounding areas find out we
[51:09] have pickleball courts,
[51:11] our own residents will not be able to get on them because they'll be so busy.
[51:15] So is there
[51:17] going to be some way that our residents can
[51:21] reserve a time on those pickleball courts?
[51:25] We hadn't actually discussed that internally.
[51:27] It might be something to consider.
[51:29] But it
[51:34] seems like something we should be able to do.
[51:37] I'm thinking more along the lines of another project we're
[51:41] working on that involves software for rec scheduling.
[51:44] So
[51:45] it probably is the kind of thing that can be done relatively easily, yeah.
[51:49] I didn't realize pickleball was so popular. I know Mr. White plays.
[51:53] So he might be able to speak to it a little bit, but apparently, it's a big deal,
[51:57] and there's not a lot of courts around, apparently.
[51:59] So this was a hot topic on social media yesterday.
[52:02] Well, especially if scheduling helps to avoid there being conflict in the
[52:06] park over usage, I think we-
[52:07] I don't want to see a couple old guys being nutshell at each other with pickleball
[52:10] paddles.
[52:11] Yeah.
[52:12] They look like they would hurt, yeah.
[52:15] I think that if you wouldn't mind, give me the opportunity to discuss it with
[52:18] staff, and we'll make sure that we come up with a good plan for how we'll tackle
[52:22] that.
[52:24] Mike, you're on security at the pickleball court.
[52:28] Comment.
[52:29] Would it be out of line to
[52:32] have a fee for out-of-staters or
[52:35] out-of-towners
[52:39] to use the court?
[52:41] We charge to use
[52:44] other facilities.
[52:46] We have
[52:47] rates set for other in town,
[52:52] whether it's our people, whether different people.
[52:55] But I think if it is that big a deal,
[52:59] maybe I suggest registration and fees for out
[53:03] of Carroll Valley residents.
[53:08] Council wants us to do that. We have time because although they've
[53:12] made a lot of progress, there's going to be a 30-day period where the
[53:16] surface can't be touched. So
[53:20] there's going to be some time that we could still do an amendment to your fee
[53:23] schedule if you wanted to do those kind of...
[53:26] Whatever you all want to do,
[53:29] I think you can do it. I don't think it's unreasonable, perhaps, that maybe it's
[53:33] not a fee to use it, but maybe it's a fee if you were going to do the reservation
[53:36] and you were an out of town or an out of Carroll Valley person or something.
[53:40] I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas as well, but we're
[53:44] willing- ... to work with council, whatever they think is most
[53:47] appropriate.
[53:48] Or perhaps we see how it goes for the fall and then adjust it for the fee schedule
[53:52] for next year.
[53:54] A bigger plan.
[53:55] Yeah.
[54:01] Okay. Took care of pickleball. Let's go back up to lot sales.
[54:10] I don't think we had any.
[54:11] We did not.
[54:14] We're still awaiting-
[54:16] Actually, last month, you chose to
[54:20] not put Mason Dixon Trail up for
[54:24] sale again.
[54:26] And I don't know that Dave got the email, but
[54:31] there will be
[54:34] appraisals for the next meeting.
[54:38] So there'll be appraisals that are complete for the next meeting.
[54:41] Thank you.
[54:43] I might note that in the
[54:46] Gettysburg paper today, there was a full page of tax
[54:50] sales going on, so you have some competition.
[54:54] Yeah. About
[54:56] 30.
[54:56] I guess we all-
[54:57] Wait until after the tax sales then.
[54:59] About 30 pair.
[55:01] There's quite a few
[55:04] vacant lots on realtor.com for sale in Carroll Valley right now.
[55:09] Honestly, the real estate market just keeps growing here.
[55:15] No doubt about it.
[55:16] I just
[55:17] went through with Chuck's sign,
[55:20] and there's a lot of perking going on in
[55:24] Carroll Valley.
[55:26] A lot of it.
[55:34] Okay. Meeting decorum.
[55:39] Our May meeting was
[55:43] not our best.
[55:46] Point of order.
[55:47] Yes?
[55:48] The meeting decorum was tabled, so therefore we have to
[55:52] make a motion to take it back off the table.
[55:55] Oh, and that's where I was going.
[55:57] Okay.
[55:59] So
[56:01] the
[56:03] issue at this time is, do we have a motion
[56:07] to
[56:09] take meeting decorum off the table and
[56:13] discuss it tonight?
[56:14] Make that motion.
[56:17] Do we have a second?
[56:19] I'll second.
[56:22] Any dis- okay.
[56:25] Any discussion on that?
[56:28] That's not a debatable topic.
[56:30] That's correct.
[56:33] Okay.
[56:35] All in favor say aye.
[56:37] Aye.
[56:40] Opposed?
[56:45] Hearing none,
[56:47] it's off the table.
[56:51] Okay.
[56:54] Council members have been provided
[56:58] with
[57:00] three documents,
[57:03] two of them which are already on the books,
[57:06] and a third one that would
[57:10] replace the two.
[57:14] And we need to decide
[57:18] whether we're going to
[57:21] keep those that are on the book and start following them,
[57:24] or if we're going to go with the new proposed ordinance
[57:28] and follow that.
[57:32] Question, Dave, does it actually replace, or is it just in addition to?
[57:37] Because the other ones are appendices on bylaws, not an ordinance
[57:41] necessarily.
[57:45] I guess that would depend upon how
[57:48] the action that you took. I would assume that if you were to adopt
[57:52] something new, that part of that motion would be to-
[57:55] To revoke the old ones
[57:57] ...
[57:58] so it would be dependent upon
[58:00] how the
[58:02] action-
[58:07] Mr. President.
[58:09] Yes.
[58:11] In its current state, borough bylaws present Robert's Rule of Order as a governing
[58:14] policy. That document is 170 pages.
[58:18] After spending several hours over the last few days reading the majority of it,
[58:22] I can safely say we are in violation of our own bylaws through countless examples.
[58:26] At this point, it is time we as a council must take one of two paths: either
[58:30] follow Robert's Rule of Order as written and indicated in our
[58:34] bylaws, or create a committee to
[58:36] adapt these rules to our particular needs and amend our
[58:40] bylaws. Items needed to be addressed are, but not limited
[58:44] to, how to be recognized, instances that allow interruption,
[58:48] speaking time limits and procedures to limit or extend
[58:51] decorum, responsibility of the officers to ensure procedures align
[58:55] with definition, out of order and repercussions, debatable and
[58:59] non-debatable items, definitions and explanations,
[59:02] additions and removal of agenda items, bylaws being present at the meeting and
[59:06] followed.
[59:08] Also, any item as directed by council before or during the
[59:11] consideration. I still believe Robert's Rule of Order should be our guiding
[59:15] principle. However, it has become increasingly clear this council is not using the
[59:18] tools from that document appropriately and should outline a more thorough
[59:22] application-based approach as our bylaws.
[59:26] Thank you.
[59:28] I fully agree.
[59:35] So with that, I will make a motion to create a committee
[59:39] and
[59:42] look at creating a new bylaw
[59:44] or an amended one.
[59:46] I'll second that.
[59:49] Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
[59:55] Question is, you want to amend this bylaw?
[59:58] Want to amend the... Yeah. Our bylaw that's...
[1:00:01] Well, we can create it and then discuss how we want to move forward with it.
[1:00:05] Yeah, because this one says we follow Robert's Rules of Order.
[1:00:08] Correct.
[1:00:09] And you were talking about the procedures in Robert's Rules of Order.
[1:00:13] Yes.
[1:00:14] So-
[1:00:14] But we can
[1:00:17] curtail it to our specific individual needs.
[1:00:20] We
[1:00:20] either have to follow what it says or create it tailored to our
[1:00:25] specific use.
[1:00:27] Right. Considering the fact that there are things in
[1:00:31] the borough code that prevents us from doing-
[1:00:34] Correct
[1:00:34] ... some of the stuff that's in Robert's Rules of Order.
[1:00:36] Yes. State and local ordinances.
[1:00:38] So what you really want to do is you want to take this and expand upon
[1:00:42] it to lay out the specific-
[1:00:45] Correct
[1:00:45] ... activities.
[1:00:46] Correct.
[1:00:47] That's one option.
[1:00:51] Okay?
[1:00:52] And then there's also rules of procedure for public
[1:00:56] meetings.
[1:00:57] Are you
[1:00:59] saying that you would like to get rid of this one?
[1:01:05] I don't have an answer for that at this time.
[1:01:08] Okay.
[1:01:08] Well,
[1:01:10] if I could interject, you had a motion and a second to create the
[1:01:13] committee to amend the bylaws. Perhaps that would be what that
[1:01:17] committee kind of figures out and brings back as its recommendation.
[1:01:22] Well, at this point, I'm just trying to figure out where that committee is going to
[1:01:25] be going.
[1:01:28] And then
[1:01:30] would that committee also-
[1:01:31] That should be up to the committee to decide, shouldn't it?
[1:01:33] And then we report, we, the committee, as in the council.
[1:01:36] Yeah, but the council would be giving them direction.
[1:01:41] I think we already have.
[1:01:47] Haven't we already given direction?
[1:01:49] No, we're still working on that.
[1:01:53] And we've got the ordinance, so maybe there's something in here, the proposed
[1:01:57] ordinance, that could be added to those other two documents and have the
[1:02:01] committee-
[1:02:03] I'm fine with that
[1:02:03] ... work on a bigger scope,
[1:02:07] using
[1:02:09] two documents that are already in place and one
[1:02:12] that was suggested previously as an
[1:02:16] alternative, but maybe all three could play a role
[1:02:20] in creating the one document that the committee would do.
[1:02:24] Yeah, that's what I was talking about.
[1:02:25] I'm good with that.
[1:02:25] I thought we already mentioned that that's what we, that the committee would do.
[1:02:29] Okay. Any other discussion on this issue?
[1:02:36] Hearing none,
[1:02:38] all in favor of giving it to a committee,
[1:02:41] say aye.
[1:02:43] Aye.
[1:02:43] Aye.
[1:02:43] Aye.
[1:02:44] Opposed?
[1:02:46] It's unanimous, Gil.
[1:02:51] Yeah.
[1:02:51] Now we got to set up the committee.
[1:02:59] Do we have volunteers for the committee?
[1:03:02] I'd like to volunteer.
[1:03:03] I as well.
[1:03:06] I'll volunteer for that also.
[1:03:08] Okay. We're limited to three
[1:03:11] so that we don't have a quorum of council.
[1:03:14] So,
[1:03:16] it'll be Dave,
[1:03:19] Cody,
[1:03:23] and Michael.
[1:03:29] Koleski.
[1:03:29] Yes, Koleski.
[1:03:31] That one.
[1:03:36] All right.
[1:03:37] The other Mike will be busy policing.
[1:03:39] Pickleball.
[1:03:40] Pickleball.
[1:03:40] Yeah.
[1:03:43] No, we want to know where everybody is at all times.
[1:03:47] This group already got two more assignments tonight.
[1:03:52] The next item of business is the youth
[1:03:56] reading program. We've already heard from Emma on that.
[1:04:01] And so
[1:04:04] unless you have something more to say on that, Emma?
[1:04:07] No, I don't think so. Just email me the dates
[1:04:11] that you're willing to volunteer.
[1:04:14] Yeah.
[1:04:15] Okay.
[1:04:17] Next up, parallel parking
[1:04:20] practice area.
[1:04:22] Sarah and I had a little bit of communication about this today as well, and
[1:04:26] I told her earlier today, I'm still working on being able to give an update on
[1:04:30] it.
[1:04:32] The update, this is news to her too, so I apologize that
[1:04:36] it's back to you, but
[1:04:39] the area that we have planned for this
[1:04:43] project
[1:04:44] has
[1:04:46] a third-party impediment parked in it right now, and we're trying to get ahold of
[1:04:50] the company and tell them to get it out of there.
[1:04:54] Once they do that, it won't take us long, but it's been
[1:04:58] there for a month or two, after Brad was kind enough to
[1:05:02] let the tree trimmers park a piece of equipment there.
[1:05:06] So once we get it out of there,
[1:05:09] we can have it up and going on more of a temporary basis pretty
[1:05:12] quickly, and then we can order a little bit more permanent signs for it.
[1:05:15] That's something you can put on Munis a bid, perhaps?
[1:05:20] I think that the chief might have an issue if we try to sell somebody
[1:05:24] else's belongings. But we might be able to move it to the impound yard and start
[1:05:27] charging for it. So-
[1:05:29] Have a hitch
[1:05:30] ... but we're working on it, and
[1:05:33] it's been placed into a schedule, so to speak, now.
[1:05:36] Would you have said that if the chief hadn't have just walked in?
[1:05:39] It just made it fit, yeah.
[1:05:44] All right. Any new business?
[1:05:47] Yeah, I have something I'd like to bring up.
[1:05:48] Okay.
[1:05:49] I want to talk about the fact that this
[1:05:53] meeting was rescheduled from its original date.
[1:05:56] Mm-hmm.
[1:05:58] I know I called you about this, Richard, but I want to just
[1:06:01] make some points here.
[1:06:03] I'm not sure
[1:06:05] why the meeting didn't go on.
[1:06:08] I know that you told me you knew that three people were going to be out.
[1:06:12] You knew that for a fact, but there were still four of us that would've had a
[1:06:16] quorum
[1:06:17] and could've proceeded with the meeting.
[1:06:22] So I'm not sure
[1:06:24] why the meeting was rescheduled. If
[1:06:28] you have some reasons that you could tell me,
[1:06:32] that'd be great. And if that was the only reason, that's fine, but I think it was
[1:06:35] wrong to do that.
[1:06:36] Well, as I told you on the phone,
[1:06:39] that
[1:06:40] if we had one more,
[1:06:44] then
[1:06:45] the advertisement would've,
[1:06:48] the meeting would've had to have been canceled at the last minute,
[1:06:53] and
[1:06:56] we have a cameraman here
[1:06:58] who would've been there.
[1:06:59] Yeah, but we could say that about any meeting.
[1:07:01] Something could happen at the last minute, maybe we knew one or two
[1:07:05] guys weren't going to make it, and then all of a sudden at the last minute, maybe
[1:07:08] another couple guys can't make it.
[1:07:10] They're stuck in traffic, they get in an accident, whatever.
[1:07:13] So we could say that for any meeting
[1:07:15] So what's the big deal on-
[1:07:16] The big deal was this
[1:07:17] ... pushing it?
[1:07:18] The big deal was this, we
[1:07:21] had a quorum, and we could've had the meeting. The second thing for me is...
[1:07:27] And that's the big thing for me, because I feel like we didn't follow the
[1:07:31] rules that are set down.
[1:07:33] The other thing is
[1:07:36] nobody was consulted on the revised date.
[1:07:40] Will that work for you?
[1:07:42] Because I can tell you, tonight did not work for me.
[1:07:45] I
[1:07:47] run a charity, and my
[1:07:49] board meeting for my charity was tonight.
[1:07:51] I had to call all my board members and get them to finagle their schedules
[1:07:56] so we could have our meeting on another night so I could be here.
[1:07:59] So the fact that nobody was even consulted about
[1:08:03] whether they
[1:08:04] could make it to the meeting for a quorum, or if we could not have the
[1:08:08] meeting,
[1:08:09] what day would be convenient for everybody.
[1:08:12] And I just think that that's wrong.
[1:08:16] The rules state that if we have a quorum, we should have the meeting.
[1:08:22] And I'm
[1:08:23] more than happy to listen to everybody's comments,
[1:08:27] if any.
[1:08:31] It's water under the bridge at this time, and
[1:08:35] your opposition to
[1:08:38] having done it is
[1:08:40] noted.
[1:08:41] Okay.
[1:08:43] I would like to add that
[1:08:45] for future planning, that if we make a schedule,
[1:08:50] it's not just about the members of this
[1:08:53] council, it's also about the people of Cairo Valley, especially in the
[1:08:57] summer when vacations are just...
[1:09:00] People are going and coming. And we put out a
[1:09:04] calendar for the whole year, we should be able to count on that.
[1:09:08] And the only reason,
[1:09:11] from my perspective,
[1:09:13] that a borough council meeting should be rescheduled is if it's
[1:09:17] proven that we don't have a quorum, and that simply did not happen.
[1:09:27] Okay.
[1:09:29] So noted.
[1:09:34] Chief?
[1:09:36] I apologize for running a little late.
[1:09:38] I was at the Fairfield meeting, and then we had a couple wanted people,
[1:09:42] got done getting them down.
[1:09:46] A couple things I wanted to bring up to you.
[1:09:47] Obviously, you saw that
[1:09:50] the 4th is going to be our National Night Out, so if you guys want to come, we
[1:09:52] always have a very good turnout for that.
[1:09:54] Kids like coming, and
[1:09:56] all the entities of Adams County. We always get the sheriff's department and
[1:10:00] the planning commission. They all come, and the
[1:10:03] kids have a really good time usually.
[1:10:05] We have stations they go to, so they try to get as
[1:10:09] many as they can. When they do that, they have a chance to win bikes.
[1:10:13] Bikes that are donated. Bike
[1:10:18] Master, I think, donates the bikes to you guys is the one-
[1:10:21] Our charity
[1:10:21] ... we were very grateful for that.
[1:10:24] Another thing I wanted to bring up is our car situation.
[1:10:28] Car number 49, which is the one that has the LPRs, has been going in and out of the
[1:10:32] garage for the past two months with issues with overheating.
[1:10:36] And everything's been covered with
[1:10:40] warranty work, but last week I
[1:10:43] called because I was upset because we still wasn't getting it back, and apparently
[1:10:47] we need a whole new engine. So-
[1:10:50] That's the newest one, correct?
[1:10:51] Yeah, that's the first one we got.
[1:10:54] But it only has 40,000 miles on it.
[1:10:57] Apparently, I found out later that
[1:11:00] something that's not uncommon.
[1:11:03] Got to wonder if they're eventually going to come up with a recall for it, because
[1:11:07] Gettysburg, their three Dodge Durangos, all three of them
[1:11:11] had engine issues. Cumberland's one, I think, had two engines.
[1:11:14] So,
[1:11:15] still been told that it's still the best police car they got out there to offer
[1:11:20] at this point. The reason why I wanted to bring it up to you guys and let you know
[1:11:22] that it happened, obviously, from what I hear, it takes a month to even
[1:11:26] get approval to even put the engine in.
[1:11:29] So it's going to be at least a month, possibly more, for them to eventually put it
[1:11:33] in.
[1:11:35] That being said, with the car that we have, we're going to put up for
[1:11:40] try to get that in running order that we can use in case,
[1:11:44] say, another one blows up. Who knows?
[1:11:46] Who's to say that the other one has the same amount of miles on it?
[1:11:49] So I'm praying that doesn't
[1:11:52] happen. We've had problems from this one from the beginning.
[1:11:54] Jonathan was in training, and he had to get it towed out of there.
[1:11:58] They had to do something. They did a bunch of stuff to the engine.
[1:12:01] But
[1:12:02] we're lucky that aspect of it goes up to 100,000 miles with its warranty.
[1:12:08] It blows my mind after I heard all of it, because I didn't hear anything about any
[1:12:11] of that, and now all of a sudden like, "Oh, yeah, that happens all the time."
[1:12:14] Supposedly, it's just cheaply made with...
[1:12:17] It has the coolant right next to the oil.
[1:12:21] They're both next to each other, and they're plastic, and they break, and then they
[1:12:24] get intertwined, and it goes in the engine and destroys it.
[1:12:27] So you think it would be an easy fix, get better ones aftermarket, and then
[1:12:31] they could do them with all, but that obviously is not the case.
[1:12:34] So I just wanted to give you a heads-up on that.
[1:12:37] Hopefully, it'll be sooner than later.
[1:12:39] They didn't give me any timeline. Like I said, they didn't even call and tell
[1:12:43] me they were doing it. They just, "Oh, yeah, by the way, we need a whole new
[1:12:46] engine."
[1:12:48] So it's in that process. They said they got to tear it all down, take
[1:12:51] pictures, submit it, and that's when...
[1:12:57] But I wanted to give you an update on that.
[1:12:58] I know that they talked about the grant.
[1:13:02] Did you guys talk about that at all? I wanted to just give you a heads-up on that.
[1:13:05] I've been working with our grant writers.
[1:13:07] There was a grant that we could set up for that comes at the end of the year.
[1:13:12] It's approximately $100,000. I broke it up-
[1:13:21] But the first thing I put in for was new
[1:13:25] are kind of outdated.
[1:13:27] About new ones that are out there with technology, about 40
[1:13:33] to run them, so that's part of the grant that we put in for.
[1:13:36] I put in for two more LPRs, so each car would have an LPR in it,
[1:13:40] license plate reader.
[1:13:42] That was about 30
[1:13:45] also put in for
[1:13:48] hollow sights to put on them and stuff like that.
[1:13:50] We're carrying .45s now, but everyone's pretty
[1:13:54] much transitioning to 9 millimeters.
[1:13:55] They've found, I guess, it's more efficient, I guess, at
[1:13:59] this point.
[1:14:01] The ammo's more abundant too, isn't it?
[1:14:03] Yeah. So it's, I think that was eight or nine grand.
[1:14:06] So the total's like, like I said, $99,000.
[1:14:09] And
[1:14:10] our grant writers did a real good job.
[1:14:13] I worked with them days on end, so just giving them the information, what they
[1:14:16] needed, but it's like a 50 page document basically sent over
[1:14:20] and hopefully,
[1:14:22] I feel, I think it's 25 million for the whole state, something like that, and we
[1:14:25] were able to put in up to like 50. So I'm hoping to,
[1:14:30] by the end of the year, to find out
[1:14:32] we're getting some of it. So, they've been really good at writing stuff compared to
[1:14:35] other people.
[1:14:38] So knock on wood we're a little step ahead and hopefully we get some of that money.
[1:14:42] But I just wanted to give everybody those updates.
[1:14:45] Good. Thank you.
[1:14:46] Mm-hmm.
[1:14:54] Any other new business?
[1:14:58] All right, we'll move on to
[1:15:01] open to the public.
[1:15:03] Josh Williams, you had indicated that maybe at the
[1:15:07] end.
[1:15:08] We're pretty much at the end. So I didn't want to be dang horse ten acres
[1:15:12] about military mobile homes. So Josh Williams, 14 Gladys Trail.
[1:15:16] If you guys don't know me, this is me.
[1:15:18] So I just want to remind the residents of Carroll Valley Borough that if you're
[1:15:22] going to cut your grass or have your grass cut by anybody,
[1:15:26] make sure that the grass clipping's removed from the roadway because it
[1:15:30] is a safety issue for motorcyclists and bicyclists.
[1:15:33] It's like driving on ice. Also,
[1:15:37] if your house has a gravel or a dirt driveway
[1:15:41] and there is a heavy rain and you have runoff into the roadway,
[1:15:45] that is your responsibility as the homeowner to remove said
[1:15:49] runoff from the roadway back onto your property for safety
[1:15:53] issues.
[1:15:55] The Skylark Trail, the hiking trail, is getting done.
[1:15:58] Another concern I have is the condition of Skylark.
[1:16:01] That road itself is
[1:16:03] wonky, potholes, not wide enough if we're going to have a trail in there.
[1:16:08] I think it needs to be widened a little bit to the right side as you're going up,
[1:16:12] so that way there'll be room for two vehicles, and if we're going to put parking
[1:16:15] areas on the trail along, as far as I was reading.
[1:16:19] There's going to be different parking areas for trail heads.
[1:16:22] So if you're going to pave parking lots, let's just repave Skylark,
[1:16:26] because that is a main thoroughfare
[1:16:28] up and down that mountain.
[1:16:32] Get a motorcycle for one of your cops.
[1:16:34] It's a lot cheaper to maintain.
[1:16:38] That way you-
[1:16:39] Yeah, but these roads aren't the greatest for them.
[1:16:44] No, no, for the gear. Let's see. That's all I got.
[1:16:45] So gentlemen, ladies, thank you for your time.
[1:16:48] I'd add
[1:16:50] that our crew
[1:16:53] road sweepers
[1:16:55] got a lot of junk to take off the roads all over.
[1:17:00] Know there's going to be some complaints coming from up in the mountains.
[1:17:05] We've already had them.
[1:17:07] Yeah.
[1:17:07] They worked pretty hard to clean up after some rains.
[1:17:11] I wasn't here to witness them, but I understand it was a good bit and-
[1:17:14] Two inches
[1:17:16] ...
[1:17:16] but I think we have some work to do to reach out to some folks,
[1:17:20] especially the ones with the stone driveways and,
[1:17:25] it might be time that we push, because we do have rules that if that happens,
[1:17:29] we can make them pave the apron so it doesn't happen.
[1:17:32] So I'm going to work with Mr. Bean and, Big Beans.
[1:17:37] Bean.
[1:17:37] He has an S?
[1:17:37] Mm-hmm.
[1:17:38] Mr. Beans, and
[1:17:40] talk with him about it, and we might try to identify some of those major
[1:17:44] problem areas that were causing washing onto the roads.
[1:17:47] Yeah, you can go no further than Warren Trail where
[1:17:51] there's construction going on and the gravel
[1:17:55] was coming down the road.
[1:17:57] On a construction site?
[1:18:00] Yes.
[1:18:01] Sorry, my bad, Sarah. I crossed that one out and didn't read the one below it.
[1:18:04] So that was for Phil. I'll work with you, I heard about that construction control.
[1:18:08] The lot across the street from my house on 14 Gladys is a vacant lot,
[1:18:13] and whoever owns that lot has dumped construction
[1:18:16] debris on the lot, just piles of concrete and
[1:18:19] dirt. Is there any ordinance against if somebody
[1:18:23] owns that lot, they can just-
[1:18:25] It's not supposed to be used for fill.
[1:18:29] Not necessarily. I have to look at it before I could give you an answer
[1:18:33] on whether or not it's permitted, because small piles, and
[1:18:37] if it's considered clean fill, it might be okay.
[1:18:40] But we most-
[1:18:41] Like concrete this big
[1:18:41] ... in most cases. Concrete-
[1:18:47] Not anymore?
[1:18:48] I don't know the answer. So, but I'll check it out tomorrow first thing.
[1:18:54] Thanks.
[1:18:55] If I have a second, again, he reminded me of something I forgot to bring up, and I
[1:18:59] know I've been kind of beating this to death for the past two meetings, but
[1:19:03] coming up every week,
[1:19:05] I just want to let everybody know out there again about the e-bikes.
[1:19:10] Been having more issues with them, and I don't know if you guys have seen or not,
[1:19:13] but you were at a kid killed on one. Have to
[1:19:16] be
[1:19:19] , not 16
[1:19:21] . Myself. And I've been doing a pretty good job of
[1:19:25] getting up with most of the kids in the group that have them, and there are a ton
[1:19:28] that have them,
[1:19:30] just to make sure that they're not on the roadway until they're 16.
[1:19:34] On top of that, there's also the fact that
[1:19:37] they've been running some issues with e-bikes as well with their size.
[1:19:41] If it goes over 20 mile an hour and it has the
[1:19:44] 750 watts, it's not legally allowed to be on the
[1:19:48] roadway. The idea of an e-bike, what it's supposed to do is assist
[1:19:52] you on it. It's not supposed to run you up and down the road, which is happening
[1:19:56] some of the times that they're on. So we've been having issues with that, and
[1:20:00] I wanted to let everybody in the public know, just make sure your kids aren't out
[1:20:03] there. I've already warned enough that I told them, I'm like, "Listen, if I have to
[1:20:07] warn you again, I'm going to have to cite you." Kids don't want to be cited.
[1:20:12] They are wearing their helmets and everything else, but it's illegal.
[1:20:15] The vehicles that are on aren't-
[1:20:17] One other thing I wanted to bring up as well is we've been having an issue,
[1:20:22] not even with kids, it's adults, that they have that
[1:20:25] big, round wheel, and it has things on both sides.
[1:20:29] It's not a Segway. That's not what a Segway is.
[1:20:32] It's an electric vehicle, and that's not allowed to be on the roadway.
[1:20:36] Been having
[1:20:38] people that have been going around trying to sell some
[1:20:41] certain things that have been getting permits.
[1:20:42] They're like, "No, you can't have these on the roadway."
[1:20:45] Stop selling these.
[1:20:46] Yeah. They're hoverboards or whatever they're called.
[1:20:49] They're not allowed on the roadway either.
[1:20:51] Make sure
[1:20:52] if you have kids that have them out there, you have them going up and down.
[1:20:56] So Chief, to clarify, on the 750-watt bike,
[1:21:00] it's 749 or under is allowed on the road for anybody?
[1:21:04] Except for 16. You have to be 16 years old.
[1:21:07] So over 16, they can have whatever size e-bike they want.
[1:21:09] No. That 750 is the bike period. What it says, the
[1:21:13] actual thing it says is it can't weigh over 100 pounds.
[1:21:16] So I guess there's ones that have more batteries to them or bigger tires.
[1:21:20] I don't know what that aspect of it is, but it says the motor can't be rated more
[1:21:24] than 750 watts, which is one brake horse.
[1:21:28] And
[1:21:29] what that, it goes with-- So if you go back to on the Facebook
[1:21:33] thing, it breaks each thing down. So it says minimum age, which is 16, and
[1:21:37] that's kind of covered under our vehicle code,
[1:21:40] that's when they decided that it was
[1:21:43] 750, the e-bike. So that's what covers it, saying
[1:21:46] unless you're 16. Not saying you need a license.
[1:21:51] And then it talks about no license, no registration, stuff
[1:21:55] like that, because technically it's supposed to be a bike.
[1:21:58] It's just, it's to assist you to go up and down hills and everything else.
[1:22:02] When it says 20 miles an hour,
[1:22:04] you got to remember that as well, that only means going straight.
[1:22:06] So if you're going down a hill and you're going a lot of fast, everybody can
[1:22:11] go. So we're not looking to ding anybody for that, but the main thing is it
[1:22:15] can only go 20 mile an hour, and it can't be over 750.
[1:22:19] We've had a couple already
[1:22:21] that of the
[1:22:22] capacity,
[1:22:24] not
[1:22:25] using what they're supposed to be.
[1:22:27] They can be registered under a motorized pedicle,
[1:22:31] which they have the electric power used, but that
[1:22:35] one actually has to be registered through the state.
[1:22:37] And
[1:22:38] when you register it, obviously you're going to have everything else.
[1:22:41] Those are still-
[1:22:41] You got to get a motorcycle? Is that a motorcycle endorsement as well?
[1:22:45] No.
[1:22:46] Just Class C, that's normal. But like I said, then that goes only
[1:22:50] up to 25, so there's so many stipulations with the stuff.
[1:22:53] If you have any questions, go to my Facebook page.
[1:22:56] Each one of these things is spelled out completely on it.
[1:22:59] It tells you how much power it has, how fast it's allowed to go, and
[1:23:02] everything. What the brake power, the horsepower of the thing is.
[1:23:06] So
[1:23:07] everybody can get informed with it, and like I said, we don't need
[1:23:11] something like York. We don't want some kid getting run over because they're out in
[1:23:14] the roadway.
[1:23:16] That's my main concern, kids obviously
[1:23:20] getting run over, because our roads
[1:23:24] aren't the biggest by any means. They're big roads and everything else- ...
[1:23:26] but it'd just be easier, just make sure the kids aren't out there on them.
[1:23:30] So I'm hoping that the parents seeing this just know.
[1:23:33] And some of them just think, "Hey, they're just riding down the street." Most
[1:23:37] accidents happen within two miles of your house in the first place.
[1:23:40] Out in the roadway with it, that's where it's going to happen.
[1:23:43] I just want to bring it back up. I know I've been killing it to death, but it
[1:23:47] doesn't seem to want to leave.
[1:23:51] Thank you.
[1:23:52] Thank you, Chief.
[1:23:55] Do we have a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn.
[1:23:57] Seconded.
[1:23:59] All in favor say aye. Aye.
[1:24:00] Aye.
[1:24:01] Unanimous, Gail.
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