[13:02] call this meeting of the Karthy City
Council to order.
[13:06] Brian, can you please give us an
indication?
[13:09] » Heavenly Father, we thank you for this
day and privilege of serving our
[13:12] community. Grant this council wisdom,
patience, and unity as they make
[13:16] decisions that affect the lives of many.
Help us seek the s the common good of
[13:21] our community with fairness, humility,
and integrity. Protect and bless our
[13:25] city, its leaders, and all who live and
work here. In your name we pray. Amen.
[13:30] Amen.
>> Amen.
[13:33] » I aliance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the standy
[13:44] andice for all.
[13:49] All right, Miranda, if you would please
call the role.
[13:52] » Topete
>> present.
[13:54] » Harrison
>> here.
[13:55] » Tea
>> here.
[13:56] » Thorne.
>> Perkins
[13:58] » here.
>> Snow
[13:59] » here.
>> Kang
[14:00] » here.
>> Wells
[14:01] » here.
>> Ready
[14:02] » here.
>> All right, everyone. I know you've had
[14:05] an opportunity to take a look at the uh
the minutes from the August 11th
[14:08] meeting. I'd entertain a motion to
approve those minutes.
[14:11] » I'll make a motion we approve those
minutes as written.
[14:13] » Second. I have a motion, a second to uh
approve the minutes as written. Any
[14:19] discussion?
>> All in favor? I.
[14:22] » All opposed?
>> Minutes are approved.
[14:27] » Okay. The next thing we've got is uh we
have no presentations or proclamations
[14:32] for this evening. So, we'll move on to
public comments. Anyone wishing to
[14:36] address the council, please step the
microphone, state your name and address,
[14:40] and limit yourself to five minutes.
[14:45] Jeff, you want to go first?
>> Yes, please.
[14:49] Brand's got a presentation. Jeff
Meredith representing the Carthage
[14:52] Economic Development Corporation.
[15:00] » Okay. And tonight I wanted to talk with
you all about a new program we have
[15:02] launched yesterday officially. It's
called Restore My Block. Um, the purpose
[15:07] of this program is to basically we're
matching dollars for home for owner
[15:11] occupied home improvements. So, if
someone's willing to put $1,000 into
[15:16] their house, we will match that $1,000
to help ensure your application is
[15:20] chosen. If you have multiple homes on
the same block, you've got neighbors
[15:24] that you want to get together. The idea
being is that it's going to make a large
[15:27] impact on certain neighborhoods if you
have three or four homes that go
[15:30] together and I'm going to fix my home,
Jack's going to fix fix his, Allen,
[15:34] etc., etc. So we make an impact there.
Um these applications are available now
[15:39] if you go to choosecarthage.com.
Um they are available online in both
[15:43] English and Spanish and I do speak
Spanish uh if people have those
[15:48] questions and they can also be dropped
off or picked up at CWP. They're on
[15:52] Centennial Avenue. Um so a couple key
points here. If you're going to do the
[15:57] work, make sure you get the grant
approved first. If you do the work and
[16:01] then ask for reimbursement, you do not
get our money.
[16:04] we will pay the contractor on your
behalf. Um, or if you do the work, we
[16:08] can pay you your half back. So, if it's
$2,000 for a project, you pay a,000, we
[16:14] pay a,000, the work gets done. Or you
pay the two, we give you a grand back
[16:18] afterwards.
This is focused on exterior permanent
[16:23] work to improve curb appeal. I specify
permanent. We're not paying for plants
[16:27] or shrubs or trees or anything that's
not going to get watered and die. Uh
[16:31] these could include porches, steps,
windows, sighting. Paint these things,
[16:36] make it pretty, get more points. If
you're doing the labor yourself or you
[16:40] have volunteers to do this, you get more
points because then it's a larger
[16:44] project. Trying to make a large impact,
help stretch the $1,000.
[16:49] The process in the timeline
applications, get those right now online
[16:54] at CWP
complete and turn it in with pictures of
[16:58] the work as you propose it. and it is
today. We need to see it before you
[17:03] start the work. My review committee
early September, we will look those
[17:07] over. We'll notify grantees in
midepptember and my friend and
[17:12] colleague, Miss Sally, will talk perhaps
about Restoration Carthage on September
[17:16] 24th. If you do apply for this and you
are selected, uh you will find out ahead
[17:21] of time and you could potentially use
those funds in conjunction with
[17:24] Restoration Carthage. By the way, you
probably get bonus points if you're a
[17:28] partner of Restoration Carthage when you
look at the application.
[17:33] If you have questions, you can email
BAT, call 2377358,
[17:40] come by the office. If I'm not there,
please do not ask the CWP employees
[17:45] questions. They do not know anything
about this program. They have to talk to
[17:50] me. Again, choosecarthage.com.
Do you all have questions about the
[17:56] program? Anything specific? Anything I
didn't mention?
[18:00] » Do you have a particular number of how
many of these thousand grants that
[18:04] you're proposing or you're expecting or
hoping to give out?
[18:08] » Great question. We have $20,000. Uh OM
Bank and the Federal Home Bank of De
[18:13] Moine gave us some funds to do this. So
20,000 20 projects.
[18:18] » Nice.
Uh, Beth,
[18:21] » do you um are you going to be looking at
all in your review committee with um
[18:26] houses that are on the um code
enforcement list or are you going to go
[18:31] a different direction?
>> Uh, I mean, they're certainly welcome to
[18:34] apply and we can get them applications.
Uh, and if they're willing to, then
[18:38] absolutely. The key is they have to be
willing to put in the money um upfront,
[18:42] but certainly and for those that are on
the code enforcement list, if you're
[18:46] watching this, please go find an
application at choosecarthage.com
[18:50] and I'm happy to help you. I mean, the
applications are fairly simple. Rhonda,
[18:54] do you have a question?
>> Well, I was just going to emphasize
[18:57] that, you know, that will be good in
compliance with our code enforcement
[19:01] that we're going around doing. those
people that are maybe
[19:06] don't have the funds or all the funds to
do the improvements, this will give them
[19:10] an opportunity
between their yourself and you guys to
[19:15] do those improvements as to what help
with the beautifying of the city of
[19:20] Carthage.
>> Yes. And that is the goal to increase
[19:22] the quantity and quality of homes in
Carthage. Uh makes everything better.
[19:28] » Thank you.
>> Any other questions for Yeah.
[19:30] » Sorry, Jeff. Is there um without going
into the entire application process,
[19:35] what is there any criteria like low
income um based more than not or
[19:42] anything like that? That's you know a
factor.
[19:46] » Uh we're not asking.
>> Sure. We're not asking about income
[19:49] requirements simply because then we'd
have to verify. Um but there are some
[19:53] questions that could. So, uh, the impact
of the project on your home is an area
[19:58] where you could get points that could
perhaps reflect some of what you're
[20:02] asking without getting into the specific
details to actually vet in that manner.
[20:06] » Okay. Excellent. Thank you.
>> Okay. Any other questions?
[20:11] » Thanks, Jeff.
[20:15] » Anyone else wishing to address the
council, please step to the microphone,
[20:19] state your name and address, and limit
yourself to five minutes.
[20:22] » Keep a straight face. [laughter] Your
luck was bound to run out. It's Sally
[20:26] Stewart with Vision Carthage and this is
my quarterly report which will be very
[20:30] short, but I'll tag on to his in just a
moment. Um, I really wanted to start
[20:35] this meeting with a huge thank you to
Sonia and to Addison. They have been
[20:41] watering every single day. Even on
Saturday, I've seen them the flowers
[20:45] around the square in and the parks in
this heat. It's been a brutal, brutal
[20:50] summer. I've about passed out myself and
they are troopers. So, please extend an
[20:56] extra thank you for us. We also want to
thank the city, the board me, my board
[21:01] members, which are just amazing, our
community partners, sponsors, and
[21:06] volunteers. We are very good stewards
with your money and we could not do the
[21:11] work we do without the people I just
mentioned and your support. So, here's
[21:16] what we've been up to the last quarter.
We completed the Carthage and Bloom
[21:21] mural and the marching fighting band
mural which is a historical mural and
[21:26] that ribbon cutting will be this
Thursday at 11:00. We've completed our
[21:31] Carthage and Bloom series which is where
we try to promote beautifification in
[21:36] people's yards by encouraging them to
plant flowers and improve their
[21:41] landscaping.
Um we acknowledged the winners in our
[21:45] evening suare which was an evening which
we celebrate everything beautiful.
[21:51] Um along with Carthage and Bloom we've
planted over 700 flowers. That's not the
[21:56] hanging baskets that we had to replace
some of and that's been a task to
[22:01] maintain again in this heat. We also
weed every Wednesday. We read Central
[22:07] Park and the roundabouts,
the me memorial hall, you name it. We
[22:13] are out every Tuesday. We have wonderful
volunteers for that. Unfortunately, many
[22:18] of our volunteers went back to school
yesterday. So, if anyone else wants to
[22:22] jump in and um wait with us for the next
month, we'd love it. I probably reported
[22:28] on dumpster day last quarter, but again,
that's one of our biggest successes. and
[22:32] we'll continue to do that um every year.
Dumpster day is one of our efforts in
[22:39] beautifification again for this town.
Veterans banners. Um we're on round
[22:46] number two and we're totally filled. If
you're hearing this and you are on our
[22:50] wait list and haven't sent it in, I
still have saved your spot, but we can
[22:54] take no more
>> [snorts]
[22:56] » um banners for this year. There has
there have been several requests to do
[23:01] something special about it when we hang
them up this year and I'll work with
[23:06] different groups to see about some sort
of event maybe around Veterans Day.
[23:12] Um we are now ready for Restoration
Carthage. Thank you to the codes
[23:17] enforcement that our normal amount of um
applications which is usually 20 30 went
[23:23] above 60 this year and we have just
we've loved getting to know everyone. We
[23:29] can only do about nine houses. Three
have been started. 812 River is our
[23:35] signature house this year and you'll see
the siding is already completed. Um it
[23:40] will still get gutters which I'll come
to because that will be part of
[23:44] hopefully
CEDC's money because she has the money
[23:49] um and the retaining wall. But the homes
that are that we select, there is no
[23:56] financial thing, but they're almost all
of
[24:01] a demographic that needs the assistance.
They can't do it themselves either
[24:05] financially or physically.
And it's our absolute pleasure to see
[24:10] those h um houses transform.
We made a year ago a change where the
[24:17] people that apply have to go to our
classes or if they can't attend a class,
[24:22] submit um some sort of support document.
And our last class is porch perkup on
[24:31] Saturday, September 12th at the library.
And
[24:37] I think that's mostly it. I wanted to
talk though just a touch on CEDC's. So
[24:45] anyone we had already selected our
process had already been completed
[24:49] before um Jeff and his group had their
money. So we will still do all the
[24:54] houses and commit to everything we did
as is. We have found three people that
[24:58] want more done. They have their $1,000.
We are encouraging them to match it and
[25:03] then we'll work with them again on that
day if they're selected.
[25:08] Um, God bless Habitat for Humanity,
Hearts and Hammers, Scott's Landscaping,
[25:14] and Josiah. Thank you.
>> All right. Any council member have a
[25:18] question for Sally?
>> They want to get the big
[25:23] » All right. Thanks, Ally. Just so the
council member knows, the mural that was
[25:26] restored is down at Second and Main
Street. If you haven't seen it, uh, it's
[25:30] it's down on the side of the south side
of that building. Anyone else wishing to
[25:34] address the council, please step the
microphone, state your name and address,
[25:37] and limit yourself to five minutes.
My name is Mike Cole, resigned at 839
[25:42] Uklid. Ladies and gentlemen of the
council, Mr. Mayor, I come tonight as a
[25:46] representative of the fire department.
I've been employed there since 2019. We
[25:51] have a collaborative statement for all
of our employees of the fire department
[25:54] to voice our concerns regarding council
bill 2648 for amended overtime for city
[25:59] employees.
Currently, our fire department has three
[26:03] rotating shifts of firefighters, each
consisting of a battalion chief and
[26:06] seven firefighters. The way the schedule
works out, our firefighters will work
[26:10] nine or 10 24-hour shifts in their 28
day FLSA cycle, either 216 hours or 240
[26:17] hours, depending on the cycle. For our
8-h hour workday employees, that equates
[26:22] to an additional 105 days a year, 35
full 24-hour days. Simply put, for the
[26:28] duration of our careers at this
department, we'll spend a third of our
[26:30] lives at work. Over the course of a
20-year career, firefighters will work
[26:34] an extra six and a half years worth of
hours compared to a 40-hour employee
[26:37] with just their base hours. Any extra
work beyond these days is paid a time
[26:42] and a half, regardless of the time off
taken. This is considered a big perk of
[26:47] choosing to work at our department, and
the new proposed bill will change this
[26:51] quite drastically for us, and it will
have an impact on our operational
[26:54] capabilities.
If put into place as proposed, any
[26:57] firefighter who takes a day off with
their crude PTO will fall under the 212
[27:02] threshold for hours worked in a 28 day
cycle. If we're short-handed and we have
[27:06] to call in overtime to maintain a
minimum staff level, that employee is
[27:10] taking the day off. They'll now be
working for straight time instead of
[27:12] overtime. Depending on the employee
working, change in compensation will
[27:17] fluctuate, but the average employee will
be losing $200 a day to work an extra 24
[27:21] hours over the course of a year. If that
firefighter were to pick up one extra
[27:26] shift a month, they're now losing out on
$2,400 for the year. Doesn't sound like
[27:30] a lot to most people, but that is almost
an extra month's worth of wages for our
[27:34] guys. As currently written, this bill
essentially punishes the employee for
[27:38] taking their PTM.
A large majority of our employees work a
[27:43] second job outside of the fire
department, partially because our
[27:46] schedule allows it, but usually because
the money is necessary to raise our
[27:49] families. problem that we run into
periodically is having another job makes
[27:52] it harder to just drop everything and
work an extra day at the fire
[27:55] department.
It's going to be even harder to
[27:58] incentivize working extra shifts if our
department has taken a day off and now
[28:03] you want them to come in for straight
time, especially when their hourly rate
[28:07] was probably higher at their part-time
job and they can be home at night with
[28:10] their family.
The shortterm impacts of this will be an
[28:14] increased workload on our administrative
staff. Someone's going to have to
[28:17] constantly be tracking hours worked
versus hours of PTO taken, shifts traded
[28:21] amongst employees to know how many hours
they've actually been in the building,
[28:24] etc. Seems unlikely the city is going to
pay our administrative assistant extra
[28:28] for this increased workload and highly
likely that she'll be subject to
[28:32] disciplinary action if the hours are
missed and overtimes paid out on
[28:35] accident.
There are multitude of lawsuits around
[28:38] the country involving fire departments
and FLSA hours not being calculated
[28:42] correctly, generally through a
misunderstanding of the exemption status
[28:45] of employees or miscalculating a regular
rate for all overtime forms. Putting our
[28:51] city in a position that has already
caused lawsuits and settlement payouts
[28:54] over a confusing form of paying overtime
does not appear to be worth the savings
[28:58] the city would have with this bill.
The long-term ramifications are much
[29:03] more significant. The majority of our
employees at department will work less
[29:06] additional hours for straight pay, which
shouldn't be a shocking revelation. This
[29:10] will exacerbate the overtime fatigue we
already see regularly as a small group
[29:14] of employees working constantly will be
less likely to work the extra shifts.
[29:18] The clear path here leads to a mandatory
or forced overtime shifts, which is not
[29:22] feasible for a department size. On any
given day, we have a pool of 12
[29:26] employees to cover a 24-hour shift
that's open. Half of that part group six
[29:31] if you will has worked the shift prior
to that extra day or worked the day
[29:35] after that day. Makes them less likely
to take it because then they'll be there
[29:38] for 48 hours straight.
As stated previously, several others at
[29:43] the department have jobs that have
scheduled work that can't be put aside,
[29:47] making them unable to work the shift. If
you now tell them they have to report to
[29:50] work to be subject to disciplinary
action, that's a morale killer. The
[29:54] turnover rate at the fire department
will be a problem. Whether employees
[29:58] choose to leave or are terminated for
being written up for refusing to come in
[30:01] on mandatory shifts, it will cause
personnel problems. Combine that with
[30:05] the fact that a nearby department is
about to start paying firefighters
[30:09] $7,000 or more than Carthage at just a
base level. Retention and hiring is
[30:13] going to be difficult.
Another thing to consider is how this
[30:16] affects our pensions. Our pension fund,
which we share with the police
[30:19] department, is based on our five highest
years of earnings. this bill passes, not
[30:24] only are we losing money in the short
term, we're losing money in retirement.
[30:28] Our department's filled with a very
talented group of employees in the fire
[30:31] service. We're capable of mitigating a
variety of emergencies with minimal
[30:34] personnel compared to other career fire
departments in the state. Several of our
[30:38] employees are highly valued members as
part-time employees at other departments
[30:42] in our own county. We don't want to see
our talented employees walk out the door
[30:46] for not being able to be appropriately
compensated for extra time worked. We
[30:50] bring this to your attention not to seek
more money, simply to ask. Don't take
[30:53] money out of our pocket that we're
already making. Keeping necessary
[30:56] personnel on duty to protect our
citizens safe should be the council's
[30:59] top priority. And this bill will make
that more difficult to accomplish. Thank
[31:03] you for your time.
>> Okay, Mike, hang on a second. Any
[31:05] council member have a question for Mike
P?
[31:10] » Okay, thank you very much. Anyone else
wishing to address the council? Please
[31:14] step the microphone, state your name and
address, and limit yourself to five
[31:17] minutes.
[31:24] Hello, my name is Tom Bowen. I'm the
vice president for the Southwest
[31:28] Missouri Fraternal Order Police. We
represent over 250 active and retired
[31:34] law enforcement officers in our area. Um
that includes the um men and women in
[31:39] the Carthage Police Officers
Association.
[31:42] I'm here to ask you to vote no on
Council Bill 2648.
[31:47] I'd like to talk about several of the
reasons that have been given in support
[31:50] of it. One reason given is that this
measure will bring you in line with the
[31:54] FLSA or the federal law governing
um working conditions.
[31:59] Um that is true that these changes would
be in line with the FLSA, but what
[32:03] you're already doing is also in line
with the FLSA. Um the FLSA doesn't um do
[32:09] a maximum. It sets a minimum just like
minimum wage. If you pay an employee
[32:13] more than minimum wage, you're still in
line with the FLSA. Paying them more
[32:17] more doesn't change that. Um the
overtime benefits and call back pay
[32:21] benefits are the same. It sets a
minimum, doesn't set a maximum. So what
[32:26] you're doing now is in line with the
FLSA just like um these changes would
[32:30] be.
Um
[32:35] it's also going to create different
tiers for different employees in your
[32:39] city. Um, it's not going to put all
employees on the same level. General
[32:44] employees are going to be paid overtime
anytime they work more than 40 hours in
[32:48] a week. Um, police employees won't get
overtime until they work more than 80
[32:53] hours in two weeks. Your fire employees
won't get overtime until they work 212
[32:57] hours in 28 days. So, there'll be three
tiers there.
[33:02] When you combine that with the proposed
changes to the callback pay, a police
[33:07] employee might take a day off at the
beginning of the pay period um for
[33:12] vacation, sick time, um any reason they
may be off and then 13 lers they may be
[33:19] called back, called away from a birthday
party, called away from a kids ball
[33:23] game, interrupted from dinner, woken up
in the middle of the night, um and
[33:27] they'll come back to work without being
paid overtime.
[33:30] um the lower benefit given to police
officers and firefighters in this um
[33:36] would create different tiers for your
employees and it's not in line with the
[33:41] way other local law enforcement officers
in other agencies are are compensated
[33:46] when they're called into work.
Finally, I'd like to address the I've
[33:52] heard that this could save the city
around $96,000.
[33:55] That's probably true. Um, but that
savings isn't going to come from
[34:00] being more efficient,
purchasing better, more efficient
[34:05] equipment, reduc reducing workflow. It's
going to be saved by paying Carthage
[34:10] police officers and Carthage
firefighters less for continuing to do
[34:13] the same work that they're doing today.
Um, this bill would negatively impact
[34:18] your employees. I'm asking you to vote
no on it. Instead, I would encourage you
[34:23] to resume your bargaining meetings with
Carthage Police Officers Association.
[34:27] We've seen incredibly positive results
of this in other communities nearby.
[34:32] Joplin Police Officers Association
bargains with um city of Joplain and
[34:37] it's been a very positive relationship
they've had there. In 2019, the JOA, the
[34:44] IIAFF, Johnson City Council, city
administration, and citizens groups
[34:49] worked together to address a significant
financial need that the city was facing.
[34:54] They developed a plan, put it on a
ballot, and put it before the voters,
[34:58] and that plan passed at about 80%.
The resulting savings from implemented
[35:04] that implementing that plan was able to
provide raises for all city employees.
[35:10] this year. Earlier this year, Job and
Police Officers Association, the IFFF,
[35:15] city council, city administration,
citizens groups once again put a
[35:20] initiative on the ballot. Um, and passed
with about 80% of the voters. Um, that's
[35:27] going to result in funds for additional
personnel, um, better equipment, and
[35:32] again, much needed raises for all city
employees, not just police and fire.
[35:37] So working together as a group is uh
positively impacting both the city and
[35:42] and those employee groups. I'm not
saying the answer is the same for
[35:46] Carthage. Carthage is a different city.
Um it's facing different situations and
[35:52] they have different needs and probably
different solutions.
[35:55] What I am asking is that you vote no on
this bill tonight and then work with
[35:59] your um employees or work with your
officers to come to a solution that's
[36:05] going to benefit you, benefit them,
benefit the community as a whole. Thank
[36:09] you.
>> Any questions for Mr. Bo Jack?
[36:15] [clears throat]
Seems to me the negotiation are between
[36:19] the Carthage Police Union and the city.
>> Yes, sir. You mentioned Jopin. Somebody
[36:25] voted. Who voted? It was like a citizen
vote. How did that I mean seemed to me
[36:29] like a negotiation is between two
parties. What what does that have to do
[36:34] with voting?
>> Yeah. So when Joplain was facing issues,
[36:39] they the um Joplin Police Officers
Association and the city came to a
[36:44] bargaining agreement together. Um, one
of the proposed solutions to what they
[36:48] were facing um, involved in increased
sales tax to be quite frank on the
[36:52] citizens. Um, so the agreement between
police officers and the city was not
[36:59] voted on by the community. That was
voted on by the their city council um,
[37:03] [snorts] just like an agreement would be
done here if it if it could be reached.
[37:07] What did have to go before the voters is
the solution that the um JOA and the
[37:12] IIAFF worked on their separate
agreements. The solution to address
[37:18] financial needs of the city. Um that
that part had to be approved by the city
[37:22] and when they put it forward both times
80% of the citizens voted yes.
[37:27] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Any other questions for this Mr. Bow?
[37:32] Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone else
wishing to address the council? Please
[37:36] step the microphone, state your name and
address, limit yourself to five minutes.
[37:44] All right, seeing no one else, we will
move on. Uh, first thing we have
[37:50] tonight, we'll go to uh reports of
standing committees. We'll start with
[37:53] budget ways and means. Allan,
>> thank you, honor. Budget ways, means
[37:57] committee is currently between meetings.
Uh our September meeting is currently
[38:02] scheduled during our MML conference and
a new date. Uh we've identified a date,
[38:09] but that date may change. So I'm not
going to say what the date is right now,
[38:13] but it the meeting will be posted. So we
will be having a different date and time
[38:18] for that uh September meeting.
>> Okay. Thank you. Committee on insurance
[38:24] audit and claims. Ron.
>> Yes, your honor. Uh we met here this
[38:28] evening at 6:00. Uh we approved the uh
claims which will be presented to the uh
[38:36] full council later on. Uh we had no new
business but uh Robin did report to us
[38:44] that uh they are still working on the uh
2-160
[38:49] uh
motion for uh changing uh the powers
[38:56] between the council and the mayor and
what have you and and firing and hiring
[39:01] employees.
Uh our next meeting will be on September
[39:06] the 8th uh at 6:00.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh public safety Allen.
[39:14] » Uh yeah, Mr. Thorne, Councilman
Thornne's not here tonight. So, uh our
[39:19] public safety committee meeting was
scheduled for the 17th and unfortunately
[39:23] we weren't able to have that meeting due
to a lack of a quorum. But there was one
[39:27] item on our agenda that needs addressed
prior to our next meeting. Uh the bridge
[39:34] uh church here in Carthage is having
their annual rally in the park. This is
[39:39] the I don't know 10th year I think that
we've done this. We've done it every
[39:44] year. Uh so at this point at this time
I'd like to make a motion that we close
[39:51] the on se Sunday September 20th at 7:00
a.m. to 300 p.m. we close uh Main Street
[40:00] between Chestnut and 9th
9inth Street between Maine and Lion
[40:08] and Chestnut between Maine and Lion
from 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. or from
[40:15] 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. to allow for
their rally in the park and allow cars
[40:22] to back into the parking places.
[40:27] Second.
>> Okay. I have a motion and a second to uh
[40:31] support rallying the park in Central
Park September 20th between 0700 and
[40:36] 1500 hours closing down the roads
around. Any discussion
[40:41] Allen? So this is kind of the backup
plan. The actual plan is for the rally
[40:49] in the park to be in Central Park and I
believe uh Jude Champagne will be coming
[40:54] to the public services committee to get
permission from parks department for
[40:59] their for the rally in the park. Uh one
time that I remember uh we actually got
[41:06] rain and we weren't able to have the car
show in the park and this is a backup
[41:11] plan to have the car show kind of around
the church area right there. So this may
[41:18] or may not actually be necessary, but
they like to get it done just in case
[41:23] they need to close those streets.
>> Okay. Thank you. Any other discussion?
[41:29] » All right. All in favor? I
>> I
[41:32] » All opposed.
>> Motion passes.
[41:35] » All right, Alan.
>> Uh, our next regularly scheduled meeting
[41:38] for public safety will be on September
21st at 5:30 here in council chambers.
[41:44] » Okay. Thank you. Public services.
>> Yes. Um, originally we were going to be
[41:50] meeting on a regular time on August
18th, but due to the lack of quorum, we
[41:54] will be rescheduling that meeting for
August 31st.
[41:59] So that's all I have to report.
>> Thank you. Public works.
[42:04] » Public works is also between meetings.
Our next scheduled meeting, I believe,
[42:09] is the first uh 5:30 here in council
chambers.
[42:14] » Okay. Thank you. We now entertain
reports from special committees and
[42:18] board liaison. Who'd like to go first?
Alan.
[42:22] » Yes. Uh the Mchune Brooks uh trust will
meet for their quarterly meeting
[42:28] tomorrow at 12:00.
>> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Marie
[42:35] Ellen.
>> Um the Kelly board meeting was held on
[42:38] August 13th. I received a warm welcome
from them after taking over um as a
[42:45] leazison for war 2. Couple things. The
pavilion project um is nearing
[42:51] completion. So, they just wanted to
remind us of the funds coming in from
[42:54] the city. Just keep that in mind. I'm
sure we still have it in mind. Um, and
[43:00] another thing, they are ongoing with
investigations concerning dredging. Just
[43:05] wanted to put that out there.
>> Okay.
[43:07] » Hopefully, we can get that done.
>> Thank you. Anything else?
[43:10] » Uh, next meeting will be held on
September 10th at 6 p.m.
[43:13] » All right.
>> Any other reports from special
[43:16] committees? Jack,
>> the CWP board met August 20th.
[43:24] [snorts] I will say it's one of the
calmer meetings we've ever had. There
[43:30] highlights dispersements were approved
in the amount of $5,725,882.99.
[43:39] All directors gave an updated report of
operations.
[43:43] Nothing extravagant, nothing strange,
nothing out of the place. Um, financial
[43:49] statements were reviewed and approved
for June 26th and July 2026. Full
[43:54] financial statements can be found in the
board packet.
[43:58] New business. The board approved a bid
for an articulating telescopic bucket
[44:04] truck from Altech Industries in the
amount of 272,327
[44:12] with an estimated delivery in 2029.
[44:18] Tough to get stuff. The board approved
the bid for a crew cab truck for water
[44:23] distribution department in the amount of
$55,499
[44:28] from InRout Enterprises in Ozark,
Missouri.
[44:33] The board approved a bid for a vacuum
jeter truck which will be shared between
[44:38] all the departments in the amount of
657,000
[44:44] from backcom
which is available on a government
[44:48] cooperative contract.
The board approved a trackloader lease
[44:54] with Caterpillar Financial Services
Corporation.
[44:58] The lease is a 4-year lease with annual
payments of $23,4758
[45:04] totaling $93,900.32
[45:08] over the 4-year period.
The board approved a bid for a
[45:13] galvanized steel structures
to
[45:18] begin
uh covering the sub4, the new
[45:24] uh
[45:27] in the economic development uh
[45:34] sorry for mumbling. Anyhow, the this uh
steel structure is not going to be the
[45:39] complete building. is going to be the
skeleton of the building.
[45:43] The amount was $282,36240
[45:50] and this is from Advanced Steel and
Crane.
[45:54] This bid was solicited and evaluated by
Algar Martin and Associates as a part of
[45:58] the overall subcore project. This is for
the new
[46:03] [cough and clears throat]
equipment for the for the uh CEDC.
[46:08] And finally, the board approved a
resolution to issue a $30,000 loan
[46:14] to the CEDC
through the CWEP revolving loan fund.
[46:20] The loan will contribute to land
purchase at the economic development
[46:23] park.
As a reminder, this money comes from a
[46:27] grant received from the USDA.
Next meeting is when?
[46:33] » I think 17th.
>> 17th.
[46:37] So, All right. Thank you. Juan,
>> police, fire, and pension committee is
[46:43] scheduled for tomorrow, August 26th, at
2 p.m. upstairs in the conference room.
[46:50] » Okay. Thank you,
>> Ron.
[46:53] » Yes. Civil War Museum had a meeting on
the uh 19th at 4:30 in the upper
[46:58] chambers here.
uh some reports of the uh July 25th
[47:05] through uh compared to July 2026 sales
was down some. It was uh for
[47:14] 2026 it was $799.
Uh a year ago it had been $1,115.
[47:23] donations was at uh
in 2025 $433
[47:30] and the uh July 2026 was 363.
Our visits was actually up though for
[47:40] 2026. It was 586 over 422
for the uh previous year.
[47:49] Um,
we also had some discussion about uh
[47:57] whether they wanted to move the Civil
War Museum
[48:01] to somewhere up on the square. Uh, the
group is going to look at that. It would
[48:07] give them more room. They have a lot of
stuff in the upstairs which is not
[48:12] available for individuals to go up and
see. So finding a place on this square
[48:17] would be nice. I am wondering, you know,
while we have a mayor that is in very
[48:22] favor of our civil war, they need to be
looking at that presently.
[48:28] Also, um
they also discussed the upstairs and
[48:33] whether we could be able to use that.
And the one problem is is if you open it
[48:38] up to the public, it has to be ADA
approved. And that presents a big
[48:43] problem and whether you want to continue
to invest in the building down here or
[48:48] if they possibly could look at trying to
move somewhere else up on the square. Uh
[48:56] just prior to closing, uh Dr. Defenbal
um has an individual Tim Hedgeameir out
[49:07] of St. Louis, who's a very big Civil War
museum individual.
[49:13] uh they're trying to schedule sometime
next year in May to have a presentation
[49:19] either at Memorial Hall or even he will
go to the high school and do
[49:25] presentations because uh they have
several groups of kids that are
[49:29] throughout the whole town and it would
make it safer for them not having to
[49:33] bring them on the bus and what have you
down here to Memorial Hall. uh and
[49:39] they're looking at that uh for uh this
coming next year and
[49:47] our possible next meeting will be
October the 14th.
[49:51] » Okay,
>> that's all we have.
[49:52] » Thank you. Any other reports on special
committees or board leaison?
[49:59] Okay, moving on. Uh we'll go into my
report for this evening. Um, as already
[50:05] mentioned, we did have another CEDC
board meeting and uh, although Jeff
[50:10] didn't necessarily me mention it, the
housing committee, which is a subset of
[50:14] the CEDC, which is the one that's
working with the new programs are out
[50:19] there. So, that's moving forward
appropriately and it is very much
[50:22] nested, I think, and and in sync with
what we're doing with code enforcement,
[50:26] what Vision is trying to do, and it's
overall beautifification of of our city
[50:31] and trying to clean it up as well. Uh we
did have another CEB board meeting as
[50:36] well as Jack mentioned. The bridge
committee also had a partial bridge
[50:40] committee meeting last week with Will
Klein from Truman uh discussing uh
[50:45] potential funding opportunities going
forward. We still obviously got a lot of
[50:49] work to do there, but that's continuing
to move forward. Ron mentioned the Civil
[50:54] War Museum Advisory Board. Uh we've
already mentioned the fire the housing
[50:59] committee. I had a meeting last week
with uh both uh the fire department and
[51:06] CWP, Jason Chotton and Jason Martin. And
I think everyone saw that uh in
[51:11] conjunction a collaboration with uh uh
Art Central and CWP and others, they're
[51:16] going to go through and start doing some
fire hydrant decoration, which is great
[51:22] in honor of the Route 66th anniversary.
Uh having said that, what we've we've
[51:28] discovered is we've got a few uh
citizens, unfortunately misinformed, who
[51:33] are quite honestly out there kind of
rolling their own in terms of painting
[51:36] what they want to paint on the fire
hydrant happens to be around their area.
[51:40] So, we're working collaborative, CWP and
fire department are working
[51:45] collaborative to put together an
ordinance that we will put on the books
[51:48] that basically outlines what the
restrictions would be. Obviously, we
[51:53] want absolutely no decrement to
functionality of the fire hydrant
[51:56] itself. Nor do we want any decoration
that would reduce the fire hydrant's
[52:01] visibility. In other words, camouflage
it because that makes no sense at all.
[52:04] We want to be able to find them easily.
So once they're done with that, uh,
[52:08] we'll get that out, bring it into
council, and I suspect what we'll find
[52:12] is people that want to do some sort of
decorative effort, much like Art Central
[52:17] is doing now, will come to probably
public safety, maybe the public works
[52:22] committee to present their ideas and get
permission from elected members of
[52:26] council before they proceed on to make
sure we're tracking. So that that's
[52:30] working forward now. I'm not sure how
far along they are, but I'm sure it'll
[52:34] be it'll be fine.
Uh we still are in need of a W 2 council
[52:41] member. We haven't had anyone sign up or
volunteer just yet. That uh we'll still
[52:45] continue to leave that slot open and
posted through the end of this week
[52:49] after which time I'll start moving back
into my recruiting mode just so
[52:54] everybody knows. And finally, although
he'll probably discuss it, uh for those
[52:59] of you council members that don't know,
we did have a uh a police officer,
[53:03] Sergeant Adams, that was injured on duty
uh this past weekend. He had a broken
[53:07] nose, uh which is obviously unfortunate
according to Chad. He's trying to go to
[53:14] law school, so broken noses may be in
his future if he becomes a lawyer
[53:19] because that's the way some people
respond to lawyers. But he's doing fine.
[53:24] Uh and again, it's an appreciation for
what the police officers do for us. So,
[53:29] all that having been said, we'll now
move on to uh reports of council
[53:34] members. And Juan, we will start with
you this evening.
[53:36] » All right. I got a story for you guys.
So, uh, last week, um, I visited Grand
[53:42] Rapids, Michigan, and they have a large
Vietnamese community there, and I got
[53:47] the opportunity to talk to to several
individuals, all of which, uh, had been
[53:51] to Carthage at some point in their life,
and every single one of them had nothing
[53:55] but good words to say about Carthage.
show. So to me that was a very proud
[53:59] moment as a Carthaginian um to to hear
all these positive things about Carthage
[54:04] and and uh they've been here to the
Marian day celebrations at some point in
[54:08] their life. Um to the point that one one
gentleman said that when he gets to the
[54:12] point of retirement and in his life that
he's considering moving to Carthage. So
[54:17] I just want to share that with everyone.
you know, the the events and and the
[54:21] impact that Marian that that we have
with those folks in Marian Days is
[54:26] seeing um it's a positive one. So, um
thank [clears throat] you guys to
[54:30] everyone that makes those type of events
uh the success that they are. Um we are
[54:36] getting that recognition from from those
individuals. So, kudos to the city to
[54:41] the folks. That's all I have.
>> Okay, Rob.
[54:44] » Uh nothing this evening, your honor.
>> Marella,
[54:47] » nothing this evening.
Jack,
[54:50] » nothing.
>> Allan,
[54:52] » thank you, your honor. I would like to
uh
[54:56] address council bill 2648
and the fair labor standards guidelines
[55:04] that we are uh looking at in this
council bill uh have not been
[55:12] uh just jumped too easily. There's been
a lot of work put into this uh with
[55:19] committee and with our HR department.
Currently, u our employees in the city,
[55:27] half of our employees or about half of
our employees are uh under the Fair
[55:32] Labor Standards Act with the 40hour work
week. As Mr. Um the gentleman earlier
[55:39] stated
um we're not cutting any pay. We're
[55:46] simply looking at how we calculate that
overtime.
[55:51] [snorts] In order to
uh make these changes, we did uh some
[55:57] research on what other cities are
currently doing, what we're currently
[56:03] doing, and what we're proposing to do.
Currently,
[56:08] uh, the Carthage Police Department is on
a 147 hour and 24 day
[56:16] period.
Our proposal is to go for 80 hours in 14
[56:21] days.
The fire department is currently on a
[56:25] 212-hour
work schedule in 28 days. That will not
[56:31] change with this new proposal.
Currently, some of the other cities in
[56:36] our area,
uh, Battlefield over by Springfield, uh,
[56:40] their current police work schedule is
171 hours in 28 days.
[56:48] Boliviver, they do not have, we did not
have information on them for the fire
[56:52] department.
Boliviver is currently on a 86-hour
[56:56] schedule in 14 days. Their fire
department is on 106 hours in 14 days.
[57:06] City of Branson 80 hours and 14 days.
City of Joplain 80 hours and 14 days.
[57:14] City of Neosho 86 hours and 14 days.
City of Nevada 80 hours and 14 days.
[57:21] City of Nik Nixa 84 hours and 14 days.
City of Web City 80 hours and 14 days
[57:30] and pretty much across the board the
fire department is 212 hours and 28 days
[57:35] as we currently have it.
So we're not looking at doing something
[57:41] different than other cities in our area
have done. We are simply looking at
[57:47] changing getting our guidelines making
our all of our employees across the
[57:53] board on the on the same
vacation pay
[57:59] standard
that uh
[58:03] is in line with the Fair Labor Standards
Act.
[58:07] Uh when we talked about call back pay,
uh our current call back is authorized
[58:16] for designated employees are eligible
for a minimum of two hours overtime
[58:20] provided the employee called back has
left work for the day after completing a
[58:24] regularly scheduled work shift and the
call back to work occurs more than two
[58:29] hours immediately before the beginning
of their next regularly scheduled work
[58:33] shift.
The change that we're proposing on that
[58:38] is when a situation arrives requiring an
employee to be called back to work
[58:42] within 12 hours after the completion of
their shift
[58:46] and outside their regular work schedule.
The employee shall receive a minimum of
[58:50] two hours of overtime pay at one and a
half times their regular rate of pay for
[58:56] the actual hours worked if more than two
hours are worked. So, we're not
[59:01] drastically changing our overtime
policy. looking at what other towns we
[59:06] we did have uh research Joplain has very
similar uh call back. Uh they do allow
[59:15] three hours of call back pay.
Um Neossho
[59:21] at least uh they only have one and a
half hours of call back pay and then uh
[59:29] Nixa has at least two hours of call back
pay. So, it's not like we're doing
[59:34] something that's completely uh out of
the ordinary or different. It's it is a
[59:40] change. I will I will give them that.
But it's not something that is uh so far
[59:51] uh different than what anyone else is
doing that I would uh
[59:58] ask everyone to support this legislation
when it comes up on the agenda later and
[1:00:03] vote in favor of it.
>> Thank you your honor.
[1:00:06] » Okay. Bet.
>> Yes. I just um wanted to say uh one
[1:00:11] thing about the vision Carthage about
volunteering for the restoration day
[1:00:16] because I did last year and I'm going to
do it again. I'm going to sign up for a
[1:00:19] house captain and it's a great family
event to do that. It's also a great
[1:00:25] company event or organization
and to be um I did a lot of these kinds
[1:00:32] of projects in the organization I worked
for in California and to see people
[1:00:37] really that excited and elated about
what's happening to their home um in
[1:00:43] just in a matter of hours as plus some
other work too. But I I do want to give
[1:00:48] a pitch for that as well. So that's
really I'll save some of my other
[1:00:52] questions and things for a little bit
later in the agenda, but thank you.
[1:00:56] » Okay, Ron.
>> Yes, sure. Uh
[1:01:00] did have a report of uh the uh elk and
Maple Street Chief. Uh
[1:01:09] there's a concerned citizen down there
watching that intersection and
[1:01:15] trucks and what have you are just flying
through that stop sign. And I've almost
[1:01:19] got hit there several times. I just
lived down the street about two blocks.
[1:01:23] And I don't know what the answer is,
whether we can get a fourway stop up
[1:01:29] there or something because
guys crossing Maple don't even stop and
[1:01:36] and it's going to be somebody get hurt
and they're concerned also that
[1:01:41] eventually someone's going to get hit or
killed on that intersection. So, we need
[1:01:45] to look at that. Second, uh Allan, I
appreciate all your information and
[1:01:51] update and I think you were very good in
clarifying that.
[1:01:57] My concern, you know, I'd love to be
able to give them all even a range, but
[1:02:02] we can't afford to do that. Uh I don't
know if they attended our uh approval or
[1:02:08] budget this year,
but it's $383,000
[1:02:13] in the deficit. In other words, the
revenue doesn't cover what our
[1:02:17] department heads went to spend this
year. So that put us at $383,000
[1:02:24] in debt.
As the gentleman spoke, this will save
[1:02:29] the city around supposedly $96,000 which
has been reported to me.
[1:02:39] I can't and honestly go to the citizens
and ask for a raise on our taxes or even
[1:02:47] our sales tax
to give you a raise cuz there a lot of
[1:02:52] those citizens are living on a lot less
money than what your entry level is even
[1:02:58] at.
[1:03:01] I have to look at the taxpayer. I have
to look at the citizens who voted for
[1:03:05] me,
who asked me to represent them. And I
[1:03:12] have talked to them and I have had a few
that said, "Oh, just go ahead and give
[1:03:17] them more money." And then I've had
others that tell me, "Hey, I have a hard
[1:03:23] time eating meat and
putting food on my table.
[1:03:33] When we have a deficit that we have and
[snorts] if we don't deal with this and
[1:03:37] find ways to cut it, your department
heads are going to eventually have to
[1:03:42] say we're going to have to work with
less people because the city ain't going
[1:03:46] to have the money to pay y'all.
I don't want to see that. I don't want
[1:03:51] to see any of you get a notice saying,
"Hey,
[1:03:54] we can't afford to continue to keep you
on board."
[1:03:59] And that'll if we have to get to that
point, it ain't going to be just
[1:04:03] parks or city
or public works.
[1:04:09] All the departments in my opinion should
be responsible for cutting employees.
[1:04:15] And when we're at 75%
70 to 75% of our revenue goes to
[1:04:22] salaries to pay all you guys
living salaries.
[1:04:30] It's going to get to the point where we
won't have no money for capital
[1:04:34] improvements and we can't even fix the
bridges we have now.
[1:04:40] It's getting to the point to where
something's going to have to give.
[1:04:46] We're trying to make a step here to put
that off. We're trying to save the city
[1:04:54] some money on this year's deficit.
If we don't, it's going to continue to
[1:05:01] get greater and greater and greater
because you're going to get a cola
[1:05:04] allowance every year. That's going to
increase. That's salary
[1:05:09] revenue over our re our revenue coming
in.
[1:05:16] The day's coming and it's not this
council's fault. This is stuff that's
[1:05:21] been put in by previous councils not
knowing when to say no.
[1:05:28] It is hard to look you guys out there
and say no.
[1:05:33] But I will be voting for this to go
forward to bring it online and try and
[1:05:38] save some money for the taxpayers.
That's all, your honor.
[1:05:43] » All right, Susan.
>> Nothing tonight.
[1:05:46] » All right, we'll move on to reports to
the officer of city. Chad,
[1:05:51] » first I'll address the uh the traffic
concern that you had. Uh it was brought
[1:05:56] to my attention as well. Um, I do agree
that I think a a four-way stop has been
[1:06:01] put up. Um, at those two locations,
um, doing a little history on accidents
[1:06:08] at those two locations, we only had, uh,
three in the last two years. However, it
[1:06:14] was probably about a year and a half
ago, we did a detailed based off a
[1:06:18] complaint. Um, and our officers wrote
several citations there. Um, I think we
[1:06:23] have just been fortunate uh that we
haven't had a more serious accident
[1:06:27] there. Um, I do agree that we need to
address uh that flow of of traffic in a
[1:06:32] four-way stop. I think would be
appropriate at both of those locations,
[1:06:36] Maine and Maple. Uh, I think it would
help alleviate a lot of problems.
[1:06:42] » Appreciate that.
>> The uh the second thing um I know I'm
[1:06:46] probably going to be asked, so I'm going
to take this time here to speak on on
[1:06:49] this bill that's coming up now.
um looking into it. Uh I my history of
[1:06:55] employment I am used to the 80our
um rule before you before you get 80
[1:07:01] hours actually physically uh at work
before you start acrewing overtime. U
[1:07:05] that is normal for me. However, when I
came over to Carthage, um it is a huge
[1:07:10] benefit uh to the officers. Um I know we
spoke about a lot of other agencies who
[1:07:16] don't do that. Um, and in reality,
you're going to have a hard time finding
[1:07:19] what Carage has done in the past several
years. Um, but what we also didn't uh
[1:07:26] have is a lot of the turnover that these
agencies had um throughout the United
[1:07:32] States, not just Missouri. Um, because
of special things like that that
[1:07:37] Carthage offered. That's why we have
people coming to us um wanting to employ
[1:07:42] and people not leaving us uh is because
of some of the benefits that come. Um it
[1:07:48] it isn't as detrimental on the 80hour
rule as it is for fire for the police
[1:07:52] side. However, on average, I think it
would take away um approximately $2,000
[1:07:58] per officer per year um of just normal
overtime that they work. And that's on
[1:08:02] average. Obviously, some work more than
others um and some don't work much at
[1:08:06] all. Um on the call back pay, um that's
really where I have a hard time with. Um
[1:08:14] our current call back pay now is if I
call an officer in, they get a minimum
[1:08:17] of two hours at what I call premium
time. They're automatically getting two
[1:08:21] or time and a half for those hours that
they're called in. Um regardless if they
[1:08:26] have taken off work for vacation, comp
or sick uh in that twoe period, I think
[1:08:31] it's appropriate to pay our employees
that we're demanding them to come in.
[1:08:35] they don't have a choice unless they
have repercussions of u of policy
[1:08:40] violations and subordination or what
have you that we're calling them in this
[1:08:45] change. If I call somebody in on their
weekend off um they they automatically
[1:08:52] guaranteed premium overtime if they took
off earlier in the in the pay period. U
[1:08:57] and I think that's wrong. I think that
we are asking them which is a huge
[1:09:01] demand. Um, and I think we should pay
them accordingly on the call back pay
[1:09:06] specifically.
[1:09:09] » That's all I have.
>> Thank you, Brian.
[1:09:13] » Um, I'm going to kind of piggyback off
of Chief Digger here on the call back as
[1:09:18] well. um you know to ask us to get up in
the middle of the night and not pay us
[1:09:25] uh accordingly to sacrifice leaving our
family whether it be on a holiday dinner
[1:09:31] um anything such as that um you know
that's a big a big incentive for us that
[1:09:37] time and a half. So the call back uh is
very important on us as well. Um other
[1:09:44] than that guys are working hard trying
to avoid the heat and um We've been
[1:09:49] getting a little bit busy with grass
fires and things like that, so we're
[1:09:53] just going at it and doing our jobs.
Thank you.
[1:09:56] » Okay. Thank you, Richard.
[1:10:03] » Um, my staff is getting ready to gear up
for our fall sports season. That's um
[1:10:09] baseball and soccer primarily. So,
they've got to move some equipment and
[1:10:14] get everything ready on the fields. Um,
as far as the swimming pool's concerned,
[1:10:18] we do have the electrical engineer um is
doing a site visit. We've done several
[1:10:24] um video calls back and forth and I've
sent a lot of information to him as far
[1:10:29] as information provided by CWEP
um back reports that they helped us with
[1:10:37] u when this issue first came about and
that's been very very beneficial. Um so
[1:10:42] I want to give them a shout out for all
the past work they've done. it's it it's
[1:10:46] finally come to fruition where it's
being used in a meaningful manner. And
[1:10:51] so um September 3rd, that's the date
when the um
[1:10:55] electrical engineer along with the
Landmark Aquatics engineers are coming
[1:11:00] down and doing their
next site visit. um golf revenue is up
[1:11:07] $8,000 last year. Um
as opposed to the same time frame
[1:11:15] uh year ago this month. And um even
though the heat's been slowing down our
[1:11:19] walk up business, they've been really
killing it on signing up new members
[1:11:23] because we've had a lot of um special
tournaments that are bringing out
[1:11:27] oftowners in and people that really
haven't set foot on the course and
[1:11:31] they're they're enjoying their time and
they're enjoying um the facilities and
[1:11:35] the town. It it's just not the golf
course. They they actually like coming
[1:11:39] to Carthage and they have a good time.
And so that's helping us um make up for
[1:11:44] the kind of the dog days of summer where
people aren't playing as much as they
[1:11:48] were two months ago except for Josiah.
He's tough. But that's all we got here.
[1:11:56] » All right, Josiah.
>> Yes. So business as usual at public
[1:11:59] works. Um I would like to highlight we
we are inching closer on the sidewalk
[1:12:04] extension for the downtown area. We've
had multiple meetings here in the last
[1:12:09] week and a half or so. uh just to kind
of button some final things up and then
[1:12:13] we'll be able to kind of share those
plans with everybody and and uh see
[1:12:17] where we're at there and uh give an
update on on timing on what everybody
[1:12:21] should expect to see there. Um, also
we're continuing,
[1:12:27] excuse [clears throat] me, to work on
the the code enforcement and uh looking
[1:12:30] for areas to improve and and constantly
uh trying to u uh enhance our system,
[1:12:37] make sure it's as efficient as possible.
And I am really happy to report I I feel
[1:12:42] like we truly are seeing with just not
just uh vision and some of these other
[1:12:46] groups out there that are willing to to
go out into the community and and just
[1:12:51] really seek out individuals that that
may need assistance and stuff. I know
[1:12:54] they greatly appreciate that and uh we
love to be able to work with people and
[1:12:59] and try to make those connections if if
possible to to seek some assistance
[1:13:03] there, whatever we have to do to to help
people get the yards cleaned up and and
[1:13:08] uh some of their property and their
structures and stuff. So, um just want
[1:13:11] to say thanks to all those volunteers
that are out there, always willing to
[1:13:15] get out in the community and volunteer.
Um, also I wanted to highlight on the
[1:13:20] resolution tonight, you'll see on the
city of Carthage adopting the Jasper
[1:13:24] County uh multi-jurisdictional hazard
mitigation plan. So, basically this
[1:13:29] resolution is a necessary step that we
have to take to be able to participate
[1:13:33] in uh in the county's um overall master
plan as far as the hazard mitigation. um
[1:13:39] this would uh help us to uh be involved
as a natural disaster comes in or
[1:13:46] whatever. Um everything's in place to be
able to receive that funding for SEMA or
[1:13:50] or FEMA assistance and stuff is is
really what that's all about. So that's
[1:13:55] all I have tonight. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you, Tracy.
[1:13:59] » Thank you, your honor. Um, we had a
meeting today, Chuck Bryant, Josiah and
[1:14:03] I, with Randy Rousson from CDN Smith,
uh, regarding the economic impacts of
[1:14:10] the 171249,
uh, corridor study. Um, as you might
[1:14:16] recall, that's the proposal where they
would um, reroute I49 around uh, the
[1:14:21] Civil War exit to link it to 249. Um, we
had strong conversations on how it would
[1:14:29] affect the uh, city of Carthage with the
economic development park, all of the
[1:14:35] industries that are already um, housed
here in Carthage and how they depend on
[1:14:40] uh, the I49 corridors. So, um, we hope
that the message that we were able to
[1:14:47] speak um, on today with Mr. Rousson um
was positive and they consider that as
[1:14:53] they move forward with that project.
Also, we had a meeting of the downtown
[1:14:57] revitalization coalition where we
discussed um inventory of the vacant
[1:15:02] buildings on the square. It's our goal
to help the business owners um or the
[1:15:08] building owners on the square uh to get
those buildings filled as we work um on
[1:15:13] economic development here in Carthage.
Also, uh, don't forget the YMCA murder
[1:15:18] mystery is this Saturday at Memorial
Hall. And, um, I would like to speak on
[1:15:24] the, um, council bill 2648 as well. Um,
the the one, um, there was a little bit
[1:15:30] of information that was, um, not quite
accurate that I want to address. Um, the
[1:15:37] discussions on the overtime issue came
out of the budget committee. Uh, but
[1:15:41] those conversations started in April. It
was discussed again at the May uh budget
[1:15:47] meeting. The um a notice was sent out 30
days in advance. We are required um
[1:15:54] through the contract um with the FOP to
give a 30-day notice. Uh we did give a
[1:16:00] 30-day notice um for that. Um Michael
Miller even met with Trent McMain
[1:16:06] regarding the policy change, the
proposed policy changes. And um we have
[1:16:13] continued we have regularly meeting
regular meetings um with uh the mayor,
[1:16:19] myself, Michael Mueller and uh Chief
Dining and Jeff Penell uh discussing
[1:16:25] everything that is included in that
contract. um we take it very seriously
[1:16:30] because we um we value our employees and
we respect um their contract and we will
[1:16:37] we have not dropped those uh
negotiations nor will we um it's just
[1:16:42] been timeconsuming um we have meetings I
think one of them's gone like three
[1:16:47] hours um so it's we do not take that
lightly and so please I I just want to
[1:16:52] make sure that all of the officers
understand that that we don't um we are
[1:16:58] fortunate to have wonderful staff uh all
around. Yes, our firefighters and our
[1:17:03] police department, they work hard. Um I
understand their commitment to the jobs
[1:17:08] and the lack of time that they have at
home with their families. I I understand
[1:17:12] that it takes away from that. Um we
value we value all of our employees. Um
[1:17:18] the
I hate hearing, you know, the the
[1:17:22] discussions on cutting employees. Yes.
I've I've spoken many times about the
[1:17:27] sit the condition of our budget. We are
in a deficit. Um but hopefully, you
[1:17:33] know, um because we value our employees,
[snorts] we can look at different
[1:17:36] options um of reducing our budget
instead of cutting cutting staff. And
[1:17:42] that's all I have to say.
>> Okay. Thank you. Obviously, John Gold is
[1:17:46] not with us here this evening. Uh but he
had nothing to give to report. So now we
[1:17:50] will entertain the report of claims
presented against the city.
[1:17:55] The Committee on Claims filed a report
in the amount of 1,111,367.39.
[1:18:05] » Your honor, I ask that uh we approve the
claims as presented.
[1:18:09] » Second.
>> All right. We have a a motion [snorts]
[1:18:13] and a second to approve the claims as
submitted. Any discussion?
[1:18:20] » All in favor?
All opposed?
[1:18:24] Motion's approved.
All right. Next, we'll move on to public
[1:18:28] hearings. Miranda, please.
>> Um, we will now hold a public hearing um
[1:18:34] to discuss the property tax rates
proposed to be set by the city of
[1:18:39] Carthage.
And I do have some um information on
[1:18:44] that. So, the residential assessed
valuations went up approximately 2.3
[1:18:49] million. the agricultural the
agricultural
[1:18:53] uh assessment went down approximately
$35,000 and the commercial valuation uh
[1:19:00] increased about $3.28 million. Um
overall the total assessed values
[1:19:06] increased uh about 5.4 million. So
according to the Hancock amendment with
[1:19:12] the state,
there are certain levels that the city
[1:19:16] can increase their levy based on the
valuations and this year there was no
[1:19:20] change in our levy um as compared to
last year. So the levy is 6629.
[1:19:27] » Does anyone from the public or citizen
care to comment on the levy?
[1:19:36] Okay, moving on. Old business
First, council [snorts] bill Miranda.
[1:19:43] The second reading of council bill 2645,
an ordinance to authorize the mayor to
[1:19:48] accept state financial assistance in the
amount of $5,2715
[1:19:54] on behalf of the city of Carthage and to
execute any contracts resulting from
[1:19:58] such application for any grants between
the city of Carthage and the Missouri
[1:20:02] Highways and Transportation Commission
providing for capital operating and or
[1:20:07] marketing assistance for commission
approved transit projects.
[1:20:12] Any discussion?
[1:20:16] Cast your vote.
[1:20:27] Council bill passes. Next council bill.
[snorts]
[1:20:32] The second reading of council bill 2646,
an ordinance amending the annual
[1:20:36] operating and capital budget of the city
of Carthage for fiscal year 2025 2026
[1:20:42] for specified funds, general fund, golf
fund, capital improvement tax fund, and
[1:20:47] the south economic development park
fund.
[1:20:50] » Any discussion?
[1:20:54] » Cast your vote.
[1:21:02] Council bill passes. Next council bill.
>> The second reading of council bill 2647.
[1:21:08] An ordinance levying general taxes upon
real property located within the city of
[1:21:13] Carthage, Jasper County, Missouri for
the year 2026 for general revenue
[1:21:17] purposes and other purposes and fixing
the rates thereof.
[1:21:21] » Any discussion?
[1:21:25] Cast your vote. Council
[1:21:34] bill passes. Next council bill.
>> The second reading of council bill 2648,
[1:21:42] an ordinance to amend section 307
overtime and section 308 compensatory
[1:21:47] time of the personnel policy manual of
the city of Carthage, Missouri.
[1:21:52] » Any discussion?
[1:21:55] » [snorts]
>> Lots of discussion.
[1:21:58] » Jack,
[1:22:01] I have an issue with Mr. Wells voting
against the budget because of salaries.
[1:22:09] These gentlemen, ladies [snorts]
put their life on the line every day.
[1:22:18] [applause]
[1:22:22] before
this bill to me is an end run around a
[1:22:26] negotiating table. In other words, you
you're still in negotiations for a
[1:22:30] contract, but now this one seems to go
well, wait a minute, it's an end run in
[1:22:35] my opinion, but uh
the point being
[1:22:41] is how how can you put a a price
on someone's life? How can you do that?
[1:22:50] How can you say, "Oh, we you're only
worth $40,000 a year.
[1:22:57] It's just wrong."
And if they can come to an agreement on
[1:23:02] this payback or pay, not payback,
>> call back
[1:23:08] » call back situation, that to me is in
the negotiations.
[1:23:12] And if that was in the negotiation right
now and it went to a vote of the
[1:23:18] firefighters and the police, it would be
54 to zero.
[1:23:24] No.
That's how strong I think these people
[1:23:27] feel and that's how strongly I feel.
It's just wrong. So if you want to
[1:23:33] continue negotiating, [clears throat] do
it. Do it. And it's called a
[1:23:40] bargaining. Yeah. It's what you do.
And if you come to some curl of
[1:23:44] agreement that this is terribly wrong to
to cut someone's salary by $2,000 or
[1:23:51] $2,700. I heard as much as $2,700.
What
[1:23:57] I'm I'm going to go way way way back.
There was an officer named Ted Christie.
[1:24:01] Anybody's old enough to remember?
>> Got shot down by the five times down by
[1:24:06] the memorial hall.
um what he was just doing his job. He
[1:24:13] survived. However, it could happen
anytime. Anytime.
[1:24:21] I'm going to go back one other thing,
Ron, to the block cameras, which you
[1:24:25] voted against, which means that you
voted for murderers, rapists, robbers,
[1:24:31] child molesters, kidnappers, cuz that's
the way it is. You either have it you
[1:24:36] have it this way or you have it that
way. You know, to me it's the same
[1:24:40] situation here. You've been preaching
about cutting salaries, cutting
[1:24:44] salaries, going to lose employees, lose
employees. Well, I I promise you there's
[1:24:49] lots of money that we can we can cut
out of this budget.
[1:24:53] » Amen. TO TO TO [applause]
[1:24:59] not punish
people who are dedicated
[1:25:04] with their jobs because they love their
jobs and they want to help people and
[1:25:10] they don't want to get shot
>> or hurt or whatever. See, so I'm I mean
[1:25:16] it just I'm going to go off the track,
so I probably need to cool it down a
[1:25:20] little bit. It really makes me angry.
All right. Any other discussion,
[1:25:26] Beth?
>> Yes. I I um have talked to a number of
[1:25:30] people, including Trent. I've talked to
Chad. I've talked to several people in
[1:25:34] our ward about um the ordinance. And I
was remiss when it first came out in
[1:25:43] terms of maybe getting back from
vacation and not looking at it as um
[1:25:47] thoroughly as I should have to
understand what the implications are and
[1:25:50] what the discussion is. I am very much
in favor of us looking at our budgets
[1:25:55] and take appropriate action to do so,
but I also believe it's important to
[1:26:02] hear what is being said about the
negotiations that are currently taking
[1:26:07] place, which everybody agrees they have
been. I would really like to see those
[1:26:12] continue to work things out. And I had
asked I don't know um Chief Dineer if
[1:26:17] you have anything else there you'd like
to say at a few more points but I would
[1:26:20] like to I wanted to ask you to speak if
you had something more about the process
[1:26:26] of negotiating. I know Trent that's
handled different you know you're not
[1:26:30] doing that part directly but I I wanted
to ask you to speak to that if you
[1:26:34] would.
>> Yeah I will I'll tell you how it started
[1:26:36] for me. Um obviously I've been around
the FOP now for 30 years so I kind of
[1:26:41] knew how things work. Um and and so so
what happened is the FOP came to me and
[1:26:48] they give me a contract and they're
like, "Hey Chief, we don't really want
[1:26:51] to do anything uh that you you don't
you're strongly discouraged uh or just
[1:26:56] the advice of we don't want you in
there." Um I took that contract, I
[1:27:00] looked it over, and I gave them my
opinion. Um from there, they made some
[1:27:05] some changes to the contract. Um at that
point they presented that contract to to
[1:27:10] the mayor uh city administrator and HR.
Um, from there we started um our as a as
[1:27:17] a group like Tracy said um we started
going through I wouldn't say weekly but
[1:27:21] it was it was periodically we were
having meetings some of them lasted a
[1:27:25] very long time and we're going through
that word by word line by line um seeing
[1:27:30] what we we liked in it and what we
didn't like or what we couldn't do uh
[1:27:36] financially and and we continued to do
that up until I think two weeks ago week
[1:27:41] and a half ago.
Um, we finally finished the first
[1:27:44] section of that contract. Um, and and we
are so we've been meeting, we've been
[1:27:49] negotiating, not negotiating, looking at
it, and then we will then give that back
[1:27:54] to the FOP um with with our version of
the bargaining. Um, I know that is is in
[1:28:01] close finishing proximity uh to to get
that presented back to them. Um, so as
[1:28:06] far as the city negotiating bargaining,
that has been happening. Um, I think
[1:28:12] that that this bill kind of coming into
the I understand that it's this bill
[1:28:16] started its its thought process prior to
the city retrie receiving the contract
[1:28:22] to start the bargaining uh part of it.
Um, but during, you know, this is
[1:28:27] happening right in the middle of it. Um,
and and I just think that um more
[1:28:33] negotiations needs to happen um that
this might resolve itself. Um and and
[1:28:39] that's my thought on that.
>> Thank you. I think that's what I was
[1:28:43] looking for because um my experience has
been that we need to work things out by
[1:28:48] talking them through and I I believe
that's been happening. I don't want any
[1:28:52] disrespect to the city staff that have
put the time and effort in this, but I
[1:28:57] did I had the same perception is that
we've already got people at the table
[1:29:03] working on this and I did not hear and
listen very closely if there's anything
[1:29:08] that people are not going to try to make
some tradeoffs or try to make some
[1:29:13] concessions or give a little here and
there to be able to do this. the
[1:29:17] commitment and the concern that um Tracy
spoke about is real. There is no
[1:29:23] question about it. So, we're going to be
looking at those things and continue. Um
[1:29:28] and but I also believe that it's
important to give I I just sometimes I
[1:29:33] think when we want to take something
away from someone um that is a very hard
[1:29:38] pill to swallow. Now, does it happen and
that's life? Yes. But I I sincerely
[1:29:44] believe that we can keep on this track
and not try to put this through. And my
[1:29:49] qu my other question is if if let's say
that this gets voted on through the FOP
[1:29:57] and the answer is no, then how does that
reconcile with something that might pass
[1:30:03] here this evening? Um what happens? I
wasn't sure what how that works. Well,
[1:30:08] actually the verbiage in this council
bill is already in their contract.
[1:30:15] » They they had agreed to these changes.
>> So [clears throat]
[1:30:19] » they they were um this process did start
in April and again I'm just relaying how
[1:30:26] it it's happened. Um Michael Miller met
with Trent McMain and and they discussed
[1:30:33] the changes. He agreed the contract u
has this language um you know with the
[1:30:39] vacation and all. Um they we had a
meeting when we got the contract and we
[1:30:46] discussed this um policy change and um
their hopes were that the amount of
[1:30:54] savings would be used in another way to
benefit the police officers.
[1:31:00] So, um, but as far as the negotiations,
um, they're ongoing.
[1:31:06] » So, I'm still I don't think I I
understand. So, if if if this has been a
[1:31:12] part of the negotiation already and it's
in their agreement, I'm I'm just trying
[1:31:17] to figure out literally how it works
because I'm not clear.
[1:31:19] » Speak on that.
>> Okay.
[1:31:20] » The negotiation the this um council bill
2648 was discussed prior to us receiving
[1:31:27] the contract. The notice went out to the
police department um to the FOP on
[1:31:32] approximately June 15th
>> and we received the FOP contract on uh
[1:31:39] June 24th.
>> Okay. So that was on your timeline.
[1:31:42] Okay. I'm just trying to I it you were
going to say something.
[1:31:47] » Yeah. I So I and I don't want to speak
on behalf of the FOP because I'm not I'm
[1:31:52] not in that negotiations part of it.
This is my understanding. Um, so when I
[1:31:57] was given that first draft from the FOP,
I noticed in there that it was the
[1:32:02] 80hour rule for overtime. Um, I then
walked down the hallway and I said,
[1:32:06] "Hey, do you realize what you have in
here?" Um, and the response to me back
[1:32:12] was, "Yes, we we understand that the
physical being here physically 80 hours
[1:32:18] u is could be a pay cut for officers
because they're not getting the premium
[1:32:22] overtime on the daily basis. We do
understand that. We understand that the
[1:32:26] city is in a deficit right now and we do
want to attempt to show that we
[1:32:31] understand that and we're willing to
work with that, but they don't want to
[1:32:35] take the entire cut um of of that money
uh and it just goes away. They were
[1:32:41] wanting to use some of that money, I
don't think all of it, but some of that
[1:32:45] money for other type of benefits,
whether it be longevity, whether it be
[1:32:49] by uh or do bilingual for the officers,
some type of other incentive for
[1:32:56] officers to stay here, whether it be
longevity pay, um other benefits that
[1:33:02] would, you know, a get recruits here to
for people to apply and also keep
[1:33:07] employees here instead of just
completely losing Yeah.
[1:33:13] » So if there are further negotiations
that continue um then what happens to
[1:33:19] those negotiations and also then having
this in this ordinance passed and in
[1:33:24] place because I'm not clear. It's like
will you keep talking or
[1:33:28] » Oh yeah.
Several um points in the contract that
[1:33:34] we are discussing.
>> Yes. Would you would I mean I don't I
[1:33:39] don't want to I'm no expert on this so
I'm just trying to kind of from an
[1:33:43] outside perspective with an obligation
here to do what I can but I so if they I
[1:33:50] mean somebody else want to help me out
here I'm just why don't you
[1:33:55] » So what what's the drop dead point if
you're not willing to give up give are
[1:34:01] you or are you not willing to give in on
this on this issue on the on I'm talking
[1:34:06] about the city. You're a part of the
negotiation.
[1:34:09] » I I I can speak a little bit. I will say
we we have the city has done their due
[1:34:15] diligence with this negotiation. There
has been nothing negative as far as as
[1:34:20] anything ill. It's all financially. It's
it's all, you know, some of the things
[1:34:25] that were in the contract that I didn't
like took some authority away from me uh
[1:34:30] to be able to manage my department the
way I feel like I should manage my
[1:34:33] department. Some of those things I
disagreed with. and they are fully aware
[1:34:36] of what I didn't like and what I liked
and why I didn't like them. Um, this
[1:34:42] city hasn't done anything illwilt. Their
intent is good. Um, as far as
[1:34:46] negotiations, I mean, I I think that
this bill passing it does affect us
[1:34:52] immediately. Um, and the negotiations
are going to still be continuing on and
[1:34:57] this could be, you know, if they we
negotiate to say, "Okay, we won't change
[1:35:01] it or we'll change it back to the way it
was and this is for for nothing." Um,
[1:35:06] but I think in the meantime, it's
harming the my staff. Um, until that
[1:35:12] happens, which you know, bargaining it
ends when it ends, when both parties can
[1:35:17] kind of come to an agreement, whenever
that may be. I'm not I'm not arguing
[1:35:21] that there's any ill will. I'm not
suggesting that whatsoever.
[1:35:26] But in union negotiations, you you
bargain in good faith. That's the mantra
[1:35:33] was NRB or the
FLSA.
[1:35:38] So I go back to the point the fact that
this bill was in existence before
[1:35:47] the negotiation started.
>> That's what I'm hearing. Correct.
[1:35:52] » That the discussions were Yes.
>> That that's what And so therefore
[1:35:57] I can't believe
that someone would even say, you know,
[1:36:02] this is a no-go.
And if you're suggesting that that Trent
[1:36:06] said, "Oh, okay. We'll do this." And now
suddenly, who doesn't like it? I can't
[1:36:11] believe he didn't like it from the
beginning.
[1:36:14] » I I agree that the negotiations are
ongoing. I I'm not I don't think there's
[1:36:20] any I know there's no will, but um
there's it's part of the negotiations.
[1:36:26] This was it started as a separate um
subject from the negotiations. Then we
[1:36:32] got the contract. It it can be council
has the right to make the their decision
[1:36:37] based on do they want it to be part of
the ongoing negotiations that they want
[1:36:41] to address it now. It can easily be uh
tabled and brought back as part of the
[1:36:47] negotiations.
We would love to be able to give them
[1:36:52] all of our employees, you know, a pay
raise or anything, you know, more um
[1:36:56] better equipment, things like that. We
just have to figure out how to come to
[1:37:01] terms with with our budget and
hopefully, like I said, not to the the
[1:37:07] detriment of the departments.
[1:37:11] » Lon,
>> I was going to say I think, and correct
[1:37:14] me if I'm wrong, but the the way you
were trying to ask the question is
[1:37:19] whether we decide for or against this
today, it could be obsolete once the
[1:37:24] negotiation comes to us and and they say
this is what we want. So, so is that
[1:37:28] what you were trying to ask, I guess.
>> Well, I'm ju just trying to get
[1:37:31] clarification because I just feel like
that it has
[1:37:34] » it's come in the middle of what was the
dialogue and the communications that
[1:37:38] were taking place. It's not not wrong to
tackle this, but I just think that
[1:37:44] having two parallel efforts and one's
going to keep going and then we have to
[1:37:48] see how it is. it just it's got I it's
already um you know it's already
[1:37:54] disruptive and I want to see it work in
a process and again nobody's mad or
[1:38:01] whatever but I think it's important that
we try to pick the most workable path to
[1:38:06] come up with the solutions and I feel
like this is
[1:38:10] encroaching upon that and I I don't
think that's fair to the people that
[1:38:14] were trying to um ask us to ask them to
protect protect us and our community.
[1:38:21] » In just my thoughts, I think as a
council, I want to believe and I know I
[1:38:26] I voted in favor of this. We care about
our city staff, right? We we approved
[1:38:30] two raises this year, showing you
financially that that we care about you
[1:38:36] guys and we want you guys to stay in
Carthage and we recognize that you guys
[1:38:39] are the reason that we are as great as
we are. Um,
[1:38:44] however, we do still have the dilemma of
of being in deficit spending, right? And
[1:38:50] so, I I think as a city, the majority of
us have made a good faith effort to to
[1:38:56] pay you guys and compensate you. Um, and
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, we are
[1:39:00] one of the better paying, at least for
our fire and and police officers. I know
[1:39:04] there was some misinformation out there
saying that we're paying less, but I
[1:39:07] believe we are one of the higher paying.
Um I know we pay better than Joplin, but
[1:39:11] um cities uh in the area, correct? No.
>> Carl Junction and Web City.
[1:39:17] » Carl Junction and Web City are the ones
that that pay better than us or we're
[1:39:20] better than Carl Junction and Web City.
I I know the the starting wage uh for
[1:39:25] Joplin uh currently is uh 40,800 based
on a um job advertisement that they had.
[1:39:33] They have the the tax that they were
talking about um that they are proposing
[1:39:38] increasing the starting salary. So that
would put the um Joplin PD higher than
[1:39:44] than
>> but currently I mean because that could
[1:39:46] fall through but currently we're
>> currently we are higher.
[1:39:49] » We are higher. Okay. Um, and again,
we've put steps into place. I know that
[1:39:54] we have another raise coming at the end
of the year. I think that's the step
[1:39:58] raise, right, that we approved or is
this the
[1:39:59] » January one?
>> January 1st. Yeah. So, I mean, at least
[1:40:04] I know if I had unlimited money, I
definitely believe everyone deserves a
[1:40:09] lot lot more money. Um, your jobs aren't
easy. I recognize it. I think everybody
[1:40:15] here recognizes that the dilemma is
what's the alternative, right?
[1:40:20] And I think we we've kind of talked
about that could be losing jobs, losing
[1:40:24] other benefits. Um,
and again, ultimately, if negotiations
[1:40:31] go through and that's brought to the
council, all this could be obsolete
[1:40:34] really.
>> So, but because it was brought up prior,
[1:40:39] I think we need to follow through with
it.
[1:40:43] » Any other discussion?
>> Yes, your honor. I want to answer
[1:40:47] certain council members
on me. Uh
[1:40:54] I'm part of the budget committee
and I ask
[1:41:00] all the department heads to take a look
at their needs versus their wants
[1:41:06] here. Now you're wanting to cut some
capital to bring us within budget, but
[1:41:11] they would not. They refused to cut
their wants.
[1:41:15] They wanted their needs
which would have put us in a
[1:41:21] non-deficent area.
Second, I've served this country for
[1:41:28] over 20 years in the military.
I also served with the sheriff
[1:41:34] department after I got out.
>> I know what it's like
[1:41:40] to be in a position of threat.
And it is not easy to want
[1:41:50] to represent the taxpayer here.
[1:41:55] Now, if you're willing to ask the
taxpayer to pay more money, then great.
[1:42:00] Let's put it to the taxes, the citizens,
and let them vote on it.
[1:42:06] I have never
felt that these officers
[1:42:12] that are caring for us are not needed or
worthless.
[1:42:20] And I voted against the flock cameras,
not for the reasons that you're coding
[1:42:25] quoting,
but for reasons that were presented to
[1:42:29] me by the public that I represent and
that I'm elected
[1:42:35] to represent.
That's just a difference of opinion
[1:42:38] between you and me.
That's all we are.
[1:42:45] Rob.
>> Um, so and I just want to address really
[1:42:50] the the officers and the firemen in the
the room more. Um, just a little history
[1:42:55] about me. So my husband is uh was a 30y
year uh first responder. So I lived the
[1:43:01] life that all of you are living. We
missed Christmases. My kids never
[1:43:05] celebrated a Christmas on a Christmas
ever. Um we did have Thanksgiving very
[1:43:11] rarely on Thanksgiving. I understand. I
understand what overtime means to you.
[1:43:15] That that is your bread and butter. Um,
and I understand what it means.
[1:43:20] [clears throat] But I also want you to
understand from our perspective, we do
[1:43:25] have the deficit. We've got to do
something. So what I would say to you
[1:43:28] and Trent perhaps you and and Chad and
um Jason um when you come back to the
[1:43:34] table
[clears throat] kind of consider what
[1:43:37] else could we do like what's the other
options or think about that or you know
[1:43:42] talk about it amongst yourselves please
because we do we've got we do have to
[1:43:46] come up with something and it's not just
your responsibility please don't think
[1:43:50] it's not fire and police's only
responsibility you know it's it's on
[1:43:53] Josiah it's on Richard too it's on it's
on the office staff. Everybody's got to
[1:43:58] make a sacrifice. And what I'm wrestling
with is [clears throat] if we don't do
[1:44:04] something in this realm, you know, it
could be the person to your left or your
[1:44:08] right who in a year from now maybe
doesn't have a job. And I'm struggling
[1:44:12] with that thought like what if we what
if we did have to make layoffs? Like I
[1:44:16] don't want to do that to somebody. But,
um, I mean, what I want to what I will
[1:44:21] say is, you know, I I probably wasn't
going to vote I was probably going to
[1:44:26] vote yes, but I feel like there's been
enough discussion [clears throat] that I
[1:44:30] don't think it hurts for us to keep
talking. Um, but I'm asking you for your
[1:44:37] help. If you can if you can think of
something,
[1:44:42] help [clears throat] each help us out.
Help each other out.
[1:44:45] That's what we really need because we do
we really do have a deficit. We I went
[1:44:49] to the budget meetings. I mean, it's
it's not made up. There's there's a lack
[1:44:54] of money that we can kick keep kicking
the can, but eventually it runs out. Um
[1:45:00] and I don't want that to happen. So, um
I'm going to vote no so that we can go
[1:45:07] back to the drawing board and keep
negotiating and come up with some things
[1:45:12] because I think that that is worth it um
for all sides. I don't want there to be
[1:45:22] hard feelings because we made a decision
and then you know it comes out later. we
[1:45:28] could have. I don't want to waste all of
our time because something comes up in
[1:45:31] the contract and then this again was all
for nothing. Um, but please, if you can
[1:45:37] help us out. I mean, that's genuine. If
you've got an idea, kick it to us. I
[1:45:42] mean, I'm open to hearing it. So, that's
all.
[1:45:46] » Any other discussion?
>> Yeah. And I'd like to piggyback off of
[1:45:49] what Robin's saying on if you guys if
you guys want this, you need to help us
[1:45:56] come up with a solution to um make it
happen for you. In my mind, I'm thinking
[1:46:02] if
if we keep if we keep it like it is and
[1:46:06] it gets to the point where we have to
lay off two or three officers, okay, you
[1:46:11] guys are short-handed. You're going to
have to work overtime. And guess what?
[1:46:15] It's gonna it's going to come down to
paying more than what we are wanting to
[1:46:19] pay because of the extra overtime you're
going to be working and you guys are
[1:46:23] going to get burned out and it's going
the turnover is just going to keep
[1:46:26] happening. I feel like if we could work
something out where even like Ron said,
[1:46:31] figure out your wants and needs, we let
us help you wherever you can, we can.
[1:46:36] And and I was going to go into this
looking at my ward and my city at voting
[1:46:43] uh voting yes on this, but having the
discussions, I think I would prefer to
[1:46:48] have more discussions on this and vote
no and just discuss more on it, go
[1:46:54] further. [snorts] That's all. Okay,
>> Jack, I don't know how you put a dollar
[1:47:01] number on a life.
I do not understand.
[1:47:07] And we're talking about
a minimal amount of money.
[1:47:14] 90 some odd thousand. Okay, big deal.
But I'm talking about what's in their
[1:47:17] pockets
and how they how do they deal with their
[1:47:21] families? How do they take care of their
families? It's no different than CWP.
[1:47:25] What's not in their on on your line is
reliability and service. That's what you
[1:47:30] pay for. And what you have in Carthage
is a safe city.
[1:47:36] The first time my wife was ever up here
from South Texas, she said it feels safe
[1:47:40] here. And why is that?
Cuz we have these these people to take
[1:47:46] care of us. And I can't imagine
saying, "Well, we're going to lay
[1:47:51] somebody off just because we don't have
any money."
[1:47:55] We can find money. We can find money.
>> [clears throat]
[1:48:03] » may I I think we we probably do need
more time just to let the conversation
[1:48:08] go. So, I'm going to make a motion to
table this um
[1:48:13] at least till [clears throat] our next
council meeting so that the FOP, the
[1:48:17] city can
can continue talks, negotiations, um
[1:48:22] because ultimately whether we vote for
it or against it and and and they decide
[1:48:28] something else, this decision is not
going to matter, right? If we end up
[1:48:31] voting something else in um so I make
the motion we table this.
[1:48:36] » Second. Okay. I have a motion and a
second to table council bill 2648
[1:48:43] uh until at least the next meeting or
perhaps longer. Any discussion?
[1:48:51] » All in favor?
>> I.
[1:48:53] » All opposed?
>> No.
[1:48:57] » All right, Jack, you want to add any
comment on that?
[1:49:00] » I made a lot of them so far.
>> Okay.
[1:49:02] » Um if you going to lay it two weeks,
then what? It gonna be another two weeks
[1:49:07] and then another two weeks.
>> It's got to be resolved between
[1:49:13] the FPO FOP
I get my acronym this way and and the
[1:49:19] city has to be resolved and not to the
detriment
[1:49:26] of this group of people.
the city can take
[1:49:33] some. You know, there's a way to find
it. I know there has to be. We can't
[1:49:38] just keep hammering on this on the on
the reason that these people keep keep
[1:49:43] us safe.
You know, I had an electrical fire three
[1:49:48] years ago and they were out there just
like that.
[1:49:53] keep keep my house from burning down
and terrible smoke damage and all that
[1:49:59] kind of thing. And that's what we have
in this city because the employees are
[1:50:06] dedicated. They love their jobs. They
love what they're doing. And if you're
[1:50:10] going to say we're going to not give you
more money, that's total BS. That's
[1:50:15] that.
[applause]
[1:50:21] Any other discussion then?
Motion is tabled. All right, moving on
[1:50:27] to new business. There we have none this
evening. We'll now move on to Mayor
[1:50:31] War's appointments. Miranda,
>> the mayor's appointment of Annie Golden
[1:50:35] to the Civil War Museum board until
December 2027.
[1:50:42] » Make a motion we um allow the mayor's
appointment to the Civil War Board.
[1:50:47] » Second.
>> I have a motion, a second to approve the
[1:50:51] appointments. Any discussion?
All in favor? I.
[1:50:56] » All opposed.
Appointment is confirmed. We'll now move
[1:51:01] on to resolutions.
>> First resolution.
[1:51:04] » Sorry. Resolution 2129, a resolution of
the city of Carthage adopting the Jasper
[1:51:10] County multi-jurisdictional hazard
mitigation plan.
[1:51:14] Any discussion?
[1:51:18] » Cast your vote.
>> I need a motion first.
[1:51:21] » Oh, I'm sorry. So moved.
>> Second. I
[1:51:24] » have a motion, a second to adopt the
resolution. Any discussion?
[1:51:30] » Cast your vote.
[1:51:41] Resolution is adopted.
All right. We will now move on to
[1:51:45] closing comments. And I will start just
a couple things for the council. Uh,
[1:51:50] number one, I think everyone understands
this, but just to make sure we're clear,
[1:51:56] any contract, the current contract that
has been profered by the FOP only
[1:52:03] represents those members of the FOP. It
does not represent fire department. It
[1:52:08] doesn't represent any other members of
the city. Just so we're straight. and
[1:52:12] any contract that the city would enter
into, you as the council members would
[1:52:17] have to vote to approve or uh not that
contract. So, just make sure we're we're
[1:52:22] tracking from that perspective.
Okay. Other than that, again, my hats
[1:52:28] off to Sergeant Adams who took one for
the team, so to speak. So, if you have a
[1:52:33] chance to see him, uh please offer your
best well wishes. And we will move on to
[1:52:39] uh other closing comments. Susan, we'll
start with you.
[1:52:42] » None tonight. Thank you,
>> Ron.
[1:52:45] » Nothing.
>> Bet.
[1:52:47] » On a on a different note, um
I would like to say congratulations.
[1:52:53] This is the first week of school
starting and many families also said
[1:52:57] goodbye as their seniors went on to be
freshman in college or go into other
[1:53:02] opportunities. And so I wish the staff
and the administration and the students
[1:53:07] especially the seniors a great year
because I think that's going to be class
[1:53:11] of what 2027. So that's something and I
really um appreciate then on this the
[1:53:17] topic of this it's important to have
these discussions that we have in order
[1:53:23] to do and make the best decisions
possible um for our community and for
[1:53:29] our our our police and our and our fire
as well as our other employees. We are
[1:53:35] very very lucky. But I also think that
um and one of the things I appreciate is
[1:53:40] that I think we can stop and reassess
and that's sometimes very rare these
[1:53:45] days. So I think that by doing so we're
going to come out with a better
[1:53:50] decision. Um hopefully that's
[clears throat] fair and equitable and
[1:53:53] it does mean effort on everybody's part.
So thank you
[1:53:58] » Alan.
[1:54:01] So I I guess I would like to start by
saying that I have always supported the
[1:54:06] police and fire department in this
position.
[1:54:10] Unfortunately in this position we have
to make very difficult decisions.
[1:54:15] Uh if they were easy, everybody would
want to do it. And if they were much
[1:54:21] harder, nobody would want to do it. But
we have to make difficult decisions.
[1:54:26] And
sometimes the decision is not about can
[1:54:31] we give somebody more money? Can we give
them less money? It's a matter of do we
[1:54:36] look at what we're doing and is what
we're doing consistent with what other
[1:54:42] people are doing, what other cities are
doing, what other government agencies
[1:54:46] are doing, what we're doing within the
city, within departments.
[1:54:51] Um,
and we we have to make a decision of
[1:54:57] should we try to be consistent?
I'm sorry, mayor, could you please ask
[1:55:03] the comments in the audience to stop?
[1:55:08] » What comments?
>> I hear comments while I'm speaking and
[1:55:12] I've heard comments all during the whole
meeting.
[1:55:15] » So, please, Bill,
>> I don't know what the hell you're
[1:55:17] talking about.
>> All right. Well, the audience will
[1:55:19] please remain respectful and quiet. So,
Al, please finish.
[1:55:23] » I have no further comments, your honor.
>> All right. Thank you, Jack.
[1:55:27] A point of irritation to me is that
[clears throat] we talk about Web City,
[1:55:32] Carl Junction, the Osho, you name it.
>> We don't live there. This is our city.
[1:55:39] And what happens in other cities, you
might say, "Well, we're we're similar to
[1:55:45] or we're better than or we're not quite
as good as it." To me, it doesn't make a
[1:55:49] a bit of difference. We're talking about
our city being the way it is. And my
[1:55:56] contention
is because we have great employees who
[1:56:02] are dedicated and want to see our city
stay safe and uh secure.
[1:56:09] » Okay. Thank you, Mariela.
>> Your honor.
[1:56:12] » All right. Robin.
>> Yes, your honor. I I I want to comment
[1:56:16] just a couple of things. I think that
um Trent, you're still here. I just want
[1:56:22] to ask if I'm clear when we discussed
what you really wanted was the
[1:56:27] tableabling. Are you do you feel like
that is what you asked for? Cuz that's
[1:56:31] what you asked me for. Not necessarily a
no vote, but a table for you guys to
[1:56:36] have some time to talk and continue to
work.
[1:56:39] » Whatever you guys did, as long as it was
a yes, was perfectly fine.
[1:56:42] » Okay. Great. Great. So, secondarily, I
just want to say that, you know, um to
[1:56:48] piggyback a little bit off what Allan
said, just um you know, just because you
[1:56:53] sometimes don't don't vote exactly the
way that um someone else thinks doesn't
[1:56:58] necessarily mean it's because you don't
care or you don't want safety. Um my
[1:57:03] house caught on fire, too. Jack and the
police department came and um I don't
[1:57:08] mean to get emotional, but this is a
really really um close to my heart
[1:57:14] topic. I live this life for 27 years
being married. And it's a little
[1:57:20] insulting for you to imply that because
I maybe vote differently than you means
[1:57:26] that I don't care. Because I'm telling
you, nobody in this room could care
[1:57:31] could care more than me about what's
going on.
[1:57:35] um in these officers and firefighters
lives and so or that because we didn't
[1:57:39] vote no or because we we tabled instead
of voting doesn't mean that we don't
[1:57:44] care about what's happening to them. Um
I've lost a lot of sleep since I talked
[1:57:49] to Trent a week ago because this is
weighed on me. Um
[1:57:54] and I don't want my vote to ever make
them think that I don't care about
[1:57:59] what's going on with them. So, um
I don't think being the loudest person
[1:58:05] in the room makes you necessarily the
rightest person. So, I
[1:58:09] » Are you talking to me?
>> Yeah.
[1:58:11] » Why?
>> I am.
[1:58:12] » Why? Why?
>> I I think it's
[1:58:14] » You know, you and I you and I have had
it out a number of times. So, you know,
[1:58:17] if you're going to say something, just
say, "Hey, Jack, are you call me by my
[1:58:21] name or call me Mr. Perkins or you call
me Hold it, Jack. Just hold it. Just if
[1:58:26] you want to have a follow- on
conversation outside, that's fine. I
[1:58:29] invite you to do so civily.
>> Oh,
[1:58:32] » Robin, your time. You're
>> I'm I'm done.
[1:58:35] » Okay. Thank you, Juan.
>> I just want to remind everyone that
[1:58:40] we're all here because we love Carthage,
right? We're all trying to do what's
[1:58:43] best for Carthage and we all have our
opinions, right? Um whether they're
[1:58:48] right, whether they're wrong, um I I can
guarantee that all of you guys at some
[1:58:54] point I've voted with you and I voted
against you. That doesn't mean that I
[1:58:58] love the city any more than you or that
you love it any more than I do. We all
[1:59:01] love Carthage. We're all serving our
city because we care about Carthage and
[1:59:04] we want what's best. Um, multiple things
could be right, right? Um, however,
[1:59:13] we always have to keep that in mind.
We're all here because we love Carthage.
[1:59:17] Okay. Um,
[1:59:21] we have to make tough decisions. This is
a tough decision. And anytime you're
[1:59:24] you're dealing with people's money, it's
a tough decision. Um,
[1:59:28] and it should be a tough decision every
single time that we approve anything,
[1:59:31] right? Because it's not our money, it's
our our city folks's money, right? So,
[1:59:36] um,
when you start getting hot or upset
[1:59:40] about anything, just remember, we're all
here for the same reason. We want
[1:59:44] Carthage to do good. Okay. Um, I love
the city. Everyone in here, I believe,
[1:59:50] loves the city. No matter whether you
voted with me or against me, I know we
[1:59:53] all care about the city the same way. So
continue to remember that whenever those
[1:59:59] moments get heated
and you feel yourself getting upset that
[2:00:02] that we all love the city and and we all
want what's best. That's all I have.
[2:00:07] » All right. Thank you. There are nothing
else. I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn.
[2:00:11] » I'll make a motion to adjurnn.
>> Second.
[2:00:13] » Have a motion second to adjurnn. All in
favor?
[2:00:15] » I I all opposed. We are journed.