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The carry town council at this time, I'll recognize Mayor Pro Tem Bush for our ceremonial opening.

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Thank you, Mayor. Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance.

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We are at item three on the agenda. We have

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received a request from staff to add the item amendment to the meeting scheduled to

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tonight's consent agenda. Is there a motion to adopt the agenda as amended?

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So, Moot.

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Second.

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Second.

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Motion and a second discussion.

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All in favor, please say aye.

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Aye.

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Opposed?

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Motion carries unanimously.

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Which takes us to recognitions, reports, and presentations.

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Our first presentation is PRCR month proclamation, and I'll recognize Councilmember Bonzel

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to present the proclamation and invite her honored guest to join her.

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Thank you, Sarah, for joining today.

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You're the chair of the PRCR board and doing an incredible job in keeping us on track. Thank you so much

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For that. So today I will recognize July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month in care, you know at Carolina

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whereas

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Kerry parks recreation and cultural resources enriches the lives of residents by providing

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high quality parks programs facilities cultural experiences and recreational opportunities

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that foster health wellness connection and belonging, and whereas, whereas carries

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nationally recognized parks and recreation system serves people of all ages

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abilities and interests, creating welcoming spaces where residents and

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visitors can play, learn, gather, celebrate and build community and whereas parks, trails,

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greenways, natural areas, arts and recreation programs contribute to the environmental, social

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and economic vitality of Cary was supporting healthy lifestyles and enhancing quality of life.

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And whereas the town of Cary is committed to thoughtfully planning for the future by expanding access to parks and recreation,

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education, promoting environmental stewardship, embracing innovation, and ensuring these resources

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continue to meet the evolving need of our growing community.

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And whereas Cary recognizes the dedicated professionals, volunteers, partners, and

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members whose contributions helped make Kerry's parks and recreation system one of the nation's

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finest and strengthen our community every day. Now therefore, I, Council Member Suika Bansal,

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on behalf of the Kerry Mayor and Council, do hereby proclaim July 2026 as Park and Recreation

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Month in Kerry, and I encourage all residents to discover new experiences, connect with

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nature and one another, support our parks and programs and celebrate the many ways our

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parks, recreation and cultural resources help our community thrive. Proclaim this 23rd

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day of July, 2026.

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Thank you, Councilwoman Bunzel and thank you, Mayor and other Council

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members, we certainly appreciate all of the resources, the time, the effort that

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Cary puts into our parks, recreation, and cultural resources division. The town of

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Cary, the citizens that live throughout the town of Cary, thoroughly enjoy all

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kinds of activities in our town, whether it be our seniors at a hot dog

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go down over at Bond Park, or whether it be toddlers taking a parent and child art class

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from Miss Lisa at the Kerry Arts Center, which I did many times, or if it might be folks taking

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dance classes or attending a concert or going to an event that might be happening such

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as the Chinese Lantern Festival at Coco Booth. The town of Cary is rich in experiences for

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our citizens. And it's because of this that Cary is so nationally recognized as a wonderful

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place to live. And there's no other place on earth. I would rather raise my family and

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have my parents join me now after they've retired and moved here. This is the place

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to live. I absolutely love it. And I thank you for investing in the power of play. You

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see, play sort of goes as a theme through everything that we do in Parks, Recreation,

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and Cultural Resources. It's healing for our community. So I do want to encourage folks

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to get out to our parks, our greenways, our paths, our trails, take a class, try

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something new, go to a concert, come to the 50th annual Lazy Days Festival taking

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place just one month from now on August 22nd and 23rd. And again, thank you for

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making Kerry what it is by having such a robust Parks, Recreation, and Cultural

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Resources Division. Thank you. Thank you.

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Our second presentation is the

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sister cities proclamation and I'll recognize councilmember Craig to present

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this proclamation and invite her honored guests to join her at the podium.

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Both of you stay. So yes I am councilmember Michelle Craig and I am

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honored to be the council liaison for Kerry's sister cities and tonight we

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have a proclamation recognizing sister cities International Day. Whereas in

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In 2026, Sister Cities International is celebrating 70 years of global citizen and civic diplomatic

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action and helping support a future where the world, cities, communities, and its citizens

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can come together on common ground, whereas Sister Cities International Day is a fitting

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occasion to commemorate the significant impact that the organization has made in building

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bridges across nations, cities, and communities across the globe in order to create

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and sustained world peace, whereas Sister Cities International was founded as presidential

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initiative by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on September 11th, 1956, at the White House

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conference on citizen diplomacy to create more community-led global relationships so

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that people of different cultures could appreciate their differences and build partnerships

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that would lessen the chance of new national conflicts. Whereas Sister Cities International

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currently has 400 U.S. member cities, counties and states that include

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relationships with more than 1800 communities in 140 countries spanning six

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continents. Whereas Cary, North Carolina is proud to be a driving part of the

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global network with sister city partnerships spanning the globe and

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the following cities and in countries like 2k France, Markham, Canada,

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Bandurnum, Turkey, Shintu, Taiwan, and County Meath, Ireland, whereas countless city, county

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and state governments and their leaders have been involved in global relationships due

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to Sister Cities International, and whereas these relationships include educational, economic,

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cultural, municipal, and humanitarian assistance exchange programs that are mutually beneficial

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to each community.

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Whereas Sister City's International Day is a call to action for Americans and citizens of the world

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to come together to celebrate the importance of communities,

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continued commitment to people, people-to-people exchanges,

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and show how powerful humanity can be when we unite to promote peace,

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progress, and prosperity for a better world.

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Now, therefore, I, Council Member Michelle Craig,

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on behalf of the Cary Mayor and Council to hereby recognize July 23rd,

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2026 at Sister City's International Day in Cary and encourage all residents to

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celebrate this day as a milestone for world peace proclaimed this 23rd day of

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July 2026.

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We have a Kenne King and we have Mihael Lynch that are coming to

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for the proclamation. We're all awarded by our specific mind.

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Fulled it up speech here. Okay.

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Hi, my name is Kena King. I'm the vice president of Carey sister cities.

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Our president Pamela Huff is currently in DC at the 70th anniversary event where she'll be joining the national board of directors.

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On behalf of organization, thank you to the town and the mayor for this proclamation and for your continual support you have provided the last 36 years.

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For those who don't know us,

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Cary Sister Cities is a local chapter

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of Sister Cities International.

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We organize cultural events and exchanges

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based around our sister cities in France,

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Canada, Turkey, Taiwan, and Ireland.

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In a time of increased political tension

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and xenophobia, creating international connections

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and celebrating our shared humanity

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is more important than ever.

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These programs create meaningful impact

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in our community, from creating

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educational opportunities for our youth

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to generating tourism and economic

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like opportunities for our businesses.

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I encourage everyone to come out to one of our events,

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grill out a barbecue picnic

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and learn about French local government

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or come to our stage at lazy days

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to watch a Taiwanese cooking demonstration.

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It's amazing the things you learn

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and people you meet when you get involved.

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I look forward to our continued work with the town

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and thank you again for your support.

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Our third recognition is for the attendees

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of the Cary Public Service Academy

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who are joining us this evening.

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The Cary Public Service Academy was created

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to help high school students learn how local government works while inspiring

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them to explore careers in public service and community leadership. I had the

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opportunity today to speak with this outstanding group and I was genuinely

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impressed by their thoughtful questions they ask and their enthusiasm for

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serving their community. I also know that many of our council members look

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forward to celebrating with them at their graduation on Friday. These students

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represent a bright future for Cary and I'm excited to see the impact they will

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have on our community in the years ahead. We are honored to have them with us

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tonight and I would ask that the students of the Cary Public Service

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Academy please stand and be recognized.

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Thank

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you. We now move to the fourth

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item which is the interim town manager's update and I'll recognize Mr. Overton.

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Thank you, Mayor. I want to take a moment to update our residents on the two work sessions

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we've had prior to tonight's regular meeting. As a reminder, work sessions are live streamed

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and recorded and available on the town's YouTube channel as well as CaryTV11 for those

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of you that do not have cable TV. Earlier tonight, staff provided an update on several

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utility items including work on a new utility billing system, long-standing year-round water

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conservation efforts in our wastewater study with Holly Springs.

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We also talked about transit, in particular the bus rapid

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Thanks for watching, and I'll see you in the next video.

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Transit system, as well as our multimodal center project and the downtown circulator route.

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Tuesday night, we received our monthly revenue report and spent the rest of the meeting pretty

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much focused on council priorities, council initiated items, and process options for addressing

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some of the recommendations in the Womblebond Dickinson Report, which is next on tonight's

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agenda. So I'll stop talking here and turn it back over to you, Mayor.

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Thank you, Mr. Overton. And a great segue to our fifth and final item is the

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presentation of the Cary Town Council Special Commission Report by Wambl-Bonn Dickinson.

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And first, I'd like to recognize our town attorney Lisa Glover to introduce the item.

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Thank you, Mayor. It's my pleasure to introduce John Cook of Wambl-Bonn Dickinson. John has

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worked with many North Carolina local governments and their governing boards throughout his

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career and has a deep understanding of local government operations. Wambl-Bonn Dickinson

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has completed its comprehensive review and investigation of the town, initiated after

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the resignation of the former town manager, and John is here to present the findings.

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This review was commissioned by Council to develop a fuller understanding of what occurred

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and identify the changes needed to strengthen the organization. Its recommendations provide

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Council and staff with a clear framework for improving accountability, oversight,

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and workplace governance. And with that, I'll turn it over to John.

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Thank you, Lisa. Good evening, Mayor and members of the Council. I'm John Cook and I'm here

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on behalf of Wumblebond Dickinson. Thank you for the opportunity for us to be able to share

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the key aspects of our report that you commissioned us to do to look into three aspects of town

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operations. I have about 10 slides to give you a preview of that. The slides will discuss

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four principal matters. What we were asked to examine, how we approach the work, what

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we found, and most importantly, perhaps, what we recommend the town council to consider

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going forward. If you have questions during the presentation, feel free to

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interrupt me. You don't need to hold your questions to the end.

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This slide is an

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overview of our assignment and I'm going to be pretty quick going through it. You

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ask us to do an independent evaluation and report and you did not nor did the

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You challenged us to look at three aspects of town government, first procurement card

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transactions and reimbursements, which simply are the town credit card transactions and reimbursements.

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The financial reporting of information to the town council and the workplace environment.

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You specifically designated an examination period from July 1, 2021, which was the

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beginning of your fiscal year for that year to November 20, 2025, when you place the former

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town manager on administrative leave.

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You challenged us not only to investigate facts, but to come up with recommendations.

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The investigation of facts are the easy part, the recommendations of the hard part.

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This

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slide again simply tells you what our scope, review, and investigatory approach was.

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And there's four points on here.

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Number one, we did not duplicate the efforts of any state agencies,

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but we cooperated with all state agencies that were looking at similar matters.

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We did what lawyers do. We investigate, gather facts.

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Then we look at rules and then we draw conclusions whether those rules were applied to those particular

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transactions and events appropriately and as intended.

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Our information, we gather from multiple resources.

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We add documents, we retain a private accounting firm to help us sort through the PCAR transactions

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which involved 28 different people who were designated to look at those transactions.

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We gathered information from both current employees and former employees.

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And because there were no surveys of employees during the examination time or really for the last 10 years,

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We looked at a post-examination survey of the employees conducted in the first half of 2026

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to give us an indication of what the workplace environment might have been during the examination period.

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So as I said, we did what lawyers do, and we came up with some findings and conclusions,

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and they're pretty straightforward.

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forward. We looked at many, many PCAR transactions and reimbursements. With the use of this Forvis,

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which is an international accounting firm and their forensic team, they quickly identified

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those transactions that they felt were most suited for further consideration. And those

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transactions related to Mr. Stiegel's transactions. And the reasons they were selected was because

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because they were generally the larger transactions that were handled during the P card transactions.

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But they also sorted that information into categories that were kind of interesting.

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First they sorted those categories in which Mr. Stiegel used the P card to charge expenditures

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on weekends.

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Second one that they looked at was those P card transactions in which he did not provide

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a receipt.

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And third, they focused on P card transactions that were goods were delivered to his home

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and not to Town Hall.

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And those were the things that stood out in their mind as things that require further

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examination.

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regulation. Finding those facts led to simply looking at your policies. Your policies and

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rules and regulations which are captured in standard procedures adopted by town managers

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told the staff how to process PCAR transactions.

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Those rules and regulations were adopted

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by town managers prior to Mr. Stiegel.

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Mr. Stiegel did not update those rules and policies.

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And in looking at those rules and policy, it is our conclusion

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that they were sufficient to give the staff opportunity

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to require further documentation from Mr. Stiegel,

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to require receipts, to question transactions,

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to audit those transactions and to decline to pay them.

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So we concluded that was an operational failure.

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And by operational failure, we simply mean there were rules in place

232
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that in our judgment were not applied as intended.

233
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And so that rule failed.

234
00:23:05,260 --> 00:23:09,200
We also, turning to the financial reporting aspect of it,

235
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,680
But there were two things that were pretty clear in the facts.

236
00:23:12,940 --> 00:23:18,820
First of all, that you had adopted a fund balance policy, that that fund balance policy was

237
00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:25,960
violated in fiscal year 2023, and Mr. Stiegel had misstated that it had not been violated

238
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to you.

239
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,500
That is an operational failure.

240
00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:38,660
Secondly, the town council had already adopted a policy regarding an internment audit and

241
00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:45,300
audit function in town hall and when Mr. Stiegel came to town there was an

242
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:52,520
internal auditor on staff. Mr. Stiegel eliminated that position and there really

243
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,720
wasn't a position designated to handle this internal audit function that was

244
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:03,060
required by your policy. Your policy also requires that you have the chance

245
00:24:03,060 --> 00:24:10,480
It's to ask this person who is to do these audits to go and look at very aspects of town

246
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,460
government and it just wasn't there.

247
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,920
So that's another operational failure.

248
00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:23,880
And furthermore, just looking at it broadly, Mr. Stiegel managed the channels that were

249
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,120
reporting financial information to you.

250
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:31,180
And key financial information in our judgment was not reported to you.

251
00:24:31,180 --> 00:24:33,140
Obviously, that's a judgment call.

252
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,920
You can't report everything, but what are the key things?

253
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:43,400
We think budget changes, real property purchases, tuition payments, those things should have

254
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:49,240
been reported to the full council in a timely and complete and accurate fashion.

255
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,340
So there were operational failures there.

256
00:24:53,080 --> 00:25:00,300
With regards to workplace environment, this is the hardest one for us to investigate

257
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:06,360
survey, because there were no surveys during this period of time, because workplace environment

258
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:13,780
always is a matter of perspective, and so we gathered the best information we could.

259
00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:24,020
We focused in part on the survey conducted in 2026 after all of these matters came out,

260
00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:30,180
In that survey, there are three things that stood out in our mind.

261
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:37,780
First, 44 percent of current employees agree or disagree somewhat that decisions are driven

262
00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:40,760
by organizational priorities and professional judgment.

263
00:25:41,660 --> 00:25:45,920
This kind of echoed in some of the information we had gathered from others.

264
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:54,220
But also in that report, a very large majority of those employees are fulfilled by their

265
00:25:54,220 --> 00:26:01,780
job, they enjoy serving the public, they appreciate being good public servants, and they enjoy

266
00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:05,120
a good relationship with their direct supervisors.

267
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:14,830
From former employees, some of who left the town happily and some who left the town

268
00:26:14,830 --> 00:26:15,950
less than happy.

269
00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:24,070
We just gathered a general view that things were not fully transparent.

270
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:29,870
There were people who questioned the fairness of the decisions, and there were some people

271
00:26:29,870 --> 00:26:36,010
who believed that decisions were made based upon Mr. Stiegel's favoritism of particular

272
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:36,810
individuals.

273
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,940
The information that we found was that Mr. Stiegel continued to report

274
00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:45,380
to the council that the workplace environment was great.

275
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:52,900
We as lawyers don't know how you do that if you don't have a survey, but regardless,

276
00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:00,820
at the best, that information was either partially true and not completely accurate.

277
00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:08,500
So we suggest that the weight of the evidence here is that the town's policies that you

278
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:17,560
You adopt, which require fairness in employment decisions and practices were not fully adhered

279
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:17,740
to.

280
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,420
You require merit-based decisions for employees.

281
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,040
That does not seem to have been true always.

282
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,740
This was another operational failure.

283
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,320
That was the easy part of the report.

284
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,880
That's what we do as lawyers all the time.

285
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,260
Go find facts, look at the law, and conclude what happened.

286
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,540
But you ask us to do more than that.

287
00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:45,280
You ask us to look for recommendations.

288
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,860
And when you look at recommendations,

289
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,220
you have to figure out what's the cause.

290
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,320
See, if you don't know the cause,

291
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:59,180
then your recommendations don't fit the problem.

292
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,220
And you can look at these individual operational phages

293
00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:07,260
and say, well, they're just individual instances.

294
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,720
But in all of these operational failures,

295
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,340
Mr. Stiegel played a role directly, indirectly,

296
00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:20,920
or somehow contributed to these operational failures.

297
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:25,680
That led us to a really interesting question,

298
00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:28,200
and that was, well, if it was just Mr. Stiegel

299
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,960
and it never could happen again,

300
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,480
and Mr. Stiegel is no longer a town manager,

301
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,200
Well, we don't need to make any recommendations because it's all been fixed.

302
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,460
This led us to looking at something that's different than what lawyers typically do.

303
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,040
We looked at the structure of the council manager form of government.

304
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:58,320
And in doing that, we concluded that there's a vulnerability in the structure.

305
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:07,180
It's very important to say that every human structure has vulnerabilities because humans

306
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:08,080
are involved.

307
00:29:09,730 --> 00:29:15,700
It doesn't say the structure is defective or it can't be fixed, it's just a vulnerability.

308
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000
And a vulnerability usually arises from a trade-off.

309
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:28,620
A trade-off is where you've made a particular decision to cure one thing by creating something

310
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:34,720
else and that is exactly what happened with the council manager form of government.

311
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:40,860
So turning to the structural vulnerability slide,

312
00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:46,480
what we found and this is we found

313
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,460
by surveying academic literature across the country.

314
00:29:51,620 --> 00:29:59,720
is that we found that the council manager form of government originated in the early 20th century.

315
00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:06,440
He was designed to cure a particular problem. The particular problem that they were concerned

316
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:15,000
about was that elected officials were using their position to control operations and employment

317
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:21,600
decisions for their personal or political gain. That was the problem these reformers were

318
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:27,900
trying to solve with the council manager form of government. So what the form of government

319
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:36,220
it does is it walls you off. It's intentional. It walls you off from day-to-day operation

320
00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:41,180
employment decisions. That actually is a great comfort if you're ever on the other side

321
00:30:41,180 --> 00:30:47,260
of the wall as an employee, by the way, and I've been there. But that's the system.

322
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,160
And so, well, once you wall off the elected body, who's going to do it? Who's going

323
00:30:53,160 --> 00:31:00,680
to run the place? Well, they had a great confidence in their professional, non-partisan manager.

324
00:31:01,420 --> 00:31:12,160
And they have vested great authority and discretion in that official to run the government. And

325
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,550
at that time, they thought running the government was kind of like running a clock. You know,

326
00:31:16,550 --> 00:31:22,670
just you just just put in rules and it all go very smoothly over the years

327
00:31:22,670 --> 00:31:28,590
people have realized that there are some issues with that the effect of that and

328
00:31:28,590 --> 00:31:33,110
this is what the literature says is that there's a partnership between the

329
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:42,350
elected body and the town and the town manager and as a partnership it builds

330
00:31:42,350 --> 00:31:49,810
this notion of trust. You expect the manager to bring everything that would be

331
00:31:49,810 --> 00:31:54,310
important for your decision-making and your supervision of the manager because

332
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:58,950
only you have authority to supervise the manager to you as your trusted

333
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:59,410
partner.

334
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,540
The problem in the system is that as long as that is the trusted

335
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:15,460
partner-manager functions that way, then you will have the information to help make the

336
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:19,440
right policy decisions and supervise the manager appropriately.

337
00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:27,880
But here, many of the questionable matters related to Mr. Stiegel's own personal actions,

338
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:34,060
and he had management and control over the reporting channels of information to the

339
00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:43,520
Tele-Council. That's the vulnerability. That's what needs to be fixed in our judgment. And

340
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:49,860
that which leads us to the recommendations that we are making tonight or in our report

341
00:32:49,860 --> 00:32:50,320
actually.

342
00:32:54,620 --> 00:33:02,650
So our recommendations themes are three-fold. One is transparency and oversight.

343
00:33:03,790 --> 00:33:08,530
financial accountability, workplace culture, and governance.

344
00:33:09,450 --> 00:33:21,350
I'm just going to hit on one of these because it really is a principal assumption that we made, presumption we made in selecting recommendations.

345
00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:29,870
We think transparency in government is critical for effective and efficient government operations.

346
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:38,750
If there had been increased transparency in those situations, these operational failures

347
00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:44,030
would have come to your attention quicker and you've been able to deal with them in

348
00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:45,350
a more efficient way.

349
00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:52,870
We think transparency also addresses the two things that need to be strengthened, which

350
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:57,950
we need to strengthen safeguards and we need to strengthen reporting channels of

351
00:33:57,950 --> 00:34:00,250
of financial information to you.

352
00:34:01,190 --> 00:34:05,570
We favor transparency over rules if it's a tie.

353
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,140
So with regards to transparency and oversight

354
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:16,840
in the P card reimbursements,

355
00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:21,740
the first two recommendations are good examples

356
00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:22,640
of transparency.

357
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:27,760
We think if you just publish the P card

358
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:35,340
and reimbursements quarterly for the manager, the direct reports to the manager, and the

359
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:41,320
department heads, you will have a self-regulating effect. If you know it's going to be public,

360
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,080
you will always be reminded that you need to be a good steward. So instead of saying,

361
00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:53,840
you can't do something, encourage better behavior. Same thing with publishing travel,

362
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,200
lodging meals and education expenditures. These are always going to be hot buttons,

363
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,740
people are always going to wonder whether that travel was better than it needed to be.

364
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:10,340
Publish them quarterly. Let the public know, let the council know.

365
00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:15,900
Third, adhere to the state RLTRS recommendations. Those are good ideas.

366
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:25,880
And then finally, because these P-CAR transaction rules had not been updated regularly, we think

367
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,640
you should require the manager to review and update those regulations every three years.

368
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:40,760
These kinds of, you know, how expenditures occur have changed so much over time that

369
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,620
you really do need to update the policy every so often.

370
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:54,260
With regards to the financial accountability, again, we're a big fan of written notice and

371
00:35:54,260 --> 00:36:00,180
information provided to the council that is mandated not relying on the good faith of

372
00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:02,920
the manager, but to require the manager.

373
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:08,180
And in all of these matters, you could have people sign certifications to this information,

374
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:08,580
right?

375
00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:14,100
If you're worried that you need more than one person, you know, indicating it's correct.

376
00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:20,280
But require written notice to the council before any appropriations out of fund balances are made.

377
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,780
Mandate reporting, discretionary budget changes at the next regular council meeting.

378
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:33,700
And on that point I'd say, think about it, your most powerful financial tool is your adopted budget.

379
00:36:34,780 --> 00:36:38,660
There are very few things staff can change that you adopt.

380
00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:42,760
Think about it, you adopt the law, they can't change it, only you can change it.

381
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:48,860
But they have to have some flexibility here to amend and change the budget.

382
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:53,440
But you should be on notice of all of them and have a chance to play a role in that.

383
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,480
Require advance notice of real estate purchases exceeding $300,000.

384
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:06,260
dollars. Again, real estate purchases are hot buttons. Everybody has an opinion what

385
00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:13,520
a piece of property is, and they're usually not the same. So real estate purchases also

386
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,700
typically involve local residents. So it's good for you to have that information.

387
00:37:20,740 --> 00:37:21,340
Reinstate

388
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:27,360
the town auditor position, which you have already done in your budget. Study best

389
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,800
practices in budget development, review technology procedures.

390
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:40,300
This brings us to the workplace culture and governance.

391
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:49,700
And we have 21 recommendations, which is quite a handful, but of the ones that we think

392
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:54,600
are most important and probably most difficult, and the ones that the state auditor did

393
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,900
not make any recommendations on, we think workplace culture and governance are important.

394
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,620
Engage an outside consultant for an annual review, for the annual performance review

395
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:12,700
of the manager, and we actually said the town attorney and clerk, so everybody was

396
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:13,340
treated fairly.

397
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:20,460
The current system is that you are using a human resources department, but the human

398
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:26,440
And that saves money, saves money, but the Human Resources Department is supervised by

399
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:26,840
the manager.

400
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,180
It puts them in an impossible position and I'll also say, if you're a staff person who

401
00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:40,080
has information you think you needed to know, they would be very reluctant to report it

402
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,400
to human resources because they know human resources answers to the manager, excuse

403
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:45,640
me.

404
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:52,360
So this is one of those examples, we don't like many of them that cause a little extra money.

405
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,160
In bed, a code of ethics in your contracts and have an annual certification.

406
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,560
There is a code of ethics. All professionals need to be reminded.

407
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:08,620
We all are reminded almost annually of our ethical responsibilities.

408
00:39:09,820 --> 00:39:13,140
It's nothing unusual about this, but the reminder is helpful.

409
00:39:13,140 --> 00:39:19,220
I amend the personnel ordinance to take out the language that says that the manager is

410
00:39:19,220 --> 00:39:23,120
the final authority for all activities of all employees.

411
00:39:23,860 --> 00:39:30,220
One could read that to say, regardless of the rules, he gets direct or she gets direct

412
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:33,040
staff to do what they want to do.

413
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:36,440
That is not part of the council manager form of government.

414
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,520
That gives him more authority than title.

415
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:45,420
Restore standard personnel best practices. Exit interviews were eliminated by Mr. Stiegel.

416
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:52,380
Need all open job postings, formal interview processes, objective bonus systems.

417
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,960
Adopt a whistleblower protection policy against retaliation. I believe that might be on your agenda tonight.

418
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:01,040
right?

419
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:12,420
Require written notice and justification for the change of positions, change of positions,

420
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:21,040
and elimination of positions, and the repurposing of positions. Direct the town manager to review

421
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:27,620
the size of the town manager's office. It became much larger under Mr. Stiegel than

422
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:29,240
by historic standards.

423
00:40:30,220 --> 00:40:34,080
Mandate regular confidential employee surveys

424
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,740
at least every three years.

425
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:39,440
So you have the data from the whole organization.

426
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,220
Evaluate the cost advantages and disadvantages

427
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,640
of a confidential employee tip line.

428
00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:48,560
Evaluate the cost advantages and disadvantages

429
00:40:49,060 --> 00:40:53,520
of using the organizational ombuds program for employees.

430
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:55,620
It is used by some organizations

431
00:40:55,620 --> 00:41:02,400
and they like that. It gives employees a safe place to bring up conflicts and try to resolve them.

432
00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:10,620
Then develop a menu of employee engagement initiatives, share with employees for feedback, strengthen the relationships

433
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:14,180
among employees, departments, and the manager's office.

434
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,140
This brings me, as I know you're happy to know, my last slide.

435
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:25,300
But this may be the most important slide of all.

436
00:41:27,730 --> 00:41:31,610
First, in terms of a path forward, affirm the foundation.

437
00:41:32,970 --> 00:41:34,750
Cary is financially strong.

438
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:39,570
Despite all of these operational failures that we found,

439
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:43,450
the town remains financially strong.

440
00:41:43,890 --> 00:41:49,590
It's rated by all bond agencies with triple A ratings for its general obligations,

441
00:41:49,590 --> 00:41:58,970
bonds, revenue bonds for water and sewer and it gathers national recognition all the time.

442
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:04,270
I was listening to the Parks and Recreation presentation and that was just another example.

443
00:42:05,470 --> 00:42:08,090
The town is financially capable.

444
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:13,990
You have employees who are committed to serving the public.

445
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:17,050
I can't tell you how important that is, I'm sure you know.

446
00:42:17,050 --> 00:42:25,290
So these findings do not define you, but they are an opportunity to make town better.

447
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:29,690
Enhance the council management model as we've talked about.

448
00:42:31,210 --> 00:42:37,770
Too much authority, discretion, and control concentrated in a single office without adequate

449
00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:44,310
safeguards and reporting channels creates a vulnerability and a problem.

450
00:42:44,310 --> 00:42:44,410
them.

451
00:42:46,830 --> 00:42:52,230
Act promptly on low-cost recommendations. We try to find some low-cost recommendations

452
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:58,050
like just publishing information. Even if they don't work, they haven't cost you much,

453
00:42:58,210 --> 00:43:06,910
but they are kind of an experiment to see whether that's helpful or not. And then for

454
00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:13,430
those things that are going to take more time, develop a deliberate plan that requires

455
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:17,990
further study and then you can just check them off. And I know you're working on that.

456
00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:24,110
And then finally, rebuild confidence through transparency. Respond in a measured, lawful

457
00:43:24,110 --> 00:43:29,990
and forward-looking manner. The council's response to these findings in our view is

458
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:36,390
itself an opportunity for the town to demonstrate its commitment to transparency and accountability.

459
00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:42,730
And none of you asked me questions, so I guess it worked pretty well.

460
00:43:44,090 --> 00:43:46,250
I am here if you have any further questions.

461
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:47,850
Questions about counsel?

462
00:43:50,010 --> 00:43:52,650
I have a question, if you wouldn't mind.

463
00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:55,010
First of all, thank you so much for that, Mr. Cook.

464
00:43:55,170 --> 00:44:01,850
I mean, when this all came to light, we were angry, we were upset,

465
00:44:01,850 --> 00:44:08,910
And, you know, it's been helpful as we tried to work through a plan, a short-term plan.

466
00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:13,970
It's helped me significantly to know that we would be able to develop a long-term plan

467
00:44:13,970 --> 00:44:19,090
based off of the findings that you would bring to us in the Office of the State Auditor.

468
00:44:19,590 --> 00:44:24,630
And, you know, without that sort of short-term, long-term approach, I don't know that

469
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:26,550
this would have been a manageable situation.

470
00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:28,390
That's just, that's how I see it.

471
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:31,210
So I just want to thank you for this and how thorough it was.

472
00:44:32,370 --> 00:44:37,750
One thing I want to clarify for me and for those that are obviously paying a lot of

473
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:45,270
attention of the 24 million in peak hard purchases, for example, that were, well, I believe that's

474
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:47,510
the last two years of peak hard purchases.

475
00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:48,890
That's what that total was.

476
00:44:49,210 --> 00:44:52,730
That's been very widely reported and widely discussed.

477
00:44:52,730 --> 00:44:59,750
Can you give us an idea of what percentage of those P card purchases?

478
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:24,680
So, you put your finger on a really important fact analysis and gathering. So, the Forbus accounting

479
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:31,500
funding firm had all 24,000, right? You use, you use analytics.

480
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:31,900
Millions.

481
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,240
24 million, yeah. You said 1,000.

482
00:45:36,660 --> 00:45:37,000
Sorry.

483
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,340
You said 1,000, it was a million, but we knew it, Jimette.

484
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:39,960
All right.

485
00:45:42,620 --> 00:45:48,520
My apologies. So they had this large number of transactions to look at.

486
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:54,460
They use analytics and their judgment. And going through that, many of those transactions

487
00:45:54,460 --> 00:46:02,200
are $10, $15, $20, and they're all over the organization.

488
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:11,960
It's not worth one's effort to go and try to dig into 10, $15, $20 transactions.

489
00:46:13,340 --> 00:46:21,280
So, please, please, please, ladies and gentlemen, please.

490
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:28,830
So they used the analytics to focus in on the larger transactions.

491
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:37,570
Most of those and many of those were Mr. Stiegel's, either his personal transactions,

492
00:46:37,870 --> 00:46:42,930
transactions he had other people submit on his behalf or transactions he encouraged.

493
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:51,490
Then they looked at Mr. Stiegel's transactions themselves and those numbers are in our report.

494
00:46:51,490 --> 00:46:55,250
and they focused in on the three things I talked about.

495
00:46:55,610 --> 00:46:56,810
You don't have a receipt.

496
00:46:57,450 --> 00:46:59,610
You need to have a receipt under the system.

497
00:47:00,450 --> 00:47:09,070
You are ordering lots of material and goods on weekends from Amazon.

498
00:47:10,210 --> 00:47:17,030
You are having a number of those goods delivered to your home

499
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:26,110
instead of to your to town hall keep in mind that Mr. Stiegel has not shared any

500
00:47:26,110 --> 00:47:32,390
information with us he's not shared any justification in part because it's been

501
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:36,570
publicly announced that somebody's looking at him law enforcement's looking

502
00:47:36,570 --> 00:47:40,850
at him so he's our lawyer he's not going to share any information but based

503
00:47:40,850 --> 00:47:46,830
upon the information we have we would say those are enough red flags

504
00:47:46,830 --> 00:47:55,950
for staff with the existing policy to say, no receipt, we're not going to process it.

505
00:47:57,650 --> 00:48:05,110
On weekends, explain it to us. On delivery to your house, explain it to us.

506
00:48:05,710 --> 00:48:10,710
None of that seemed to have occurred. It seemed to be that they just processed it

507
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:13,810
because it was the town manager's expenditures.

508
00:48:13,810 --> 00:48:14,110
to choose.

509
00:48:14,830 --> 00:48:15,270
Thank you.

510
00:48:15,650 --> 00:48:15,990
That's helpful.

511
00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:27,600
Ladies and gentlemen, please, please, please, ladies and gentlemen, please, please, other

512
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,060
questions from council members?

513
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:37,170
Also I have a question, one mentioned just now about the misuse of P cards.

514
00:48:38,010 --> 00:48:42,490
So all the recommendation to change already in your recommendation, right?

515
00:48:42,490 --> 00:48:48,430
So all the actions we need to make already in place.

516
00:48:49,070 --> 00:48:49,510
Yes.

517
00:48:50,010 --> 00:48:50,210
Right.

518
00:48:51,330 --> 00:48:52,890
Your entire report is online.

519
00:48:53,450 --> 00:48:58,290
My entire report, our entire report, it wasn't just me, I want to be clear about that.

520
00:48:58,950 --> 00:49:01,450
And our entire report is online.

521
00:49:02,130 --> 00:49:09,990
And it has the details that I've tried to skim through in terms of numbers and things.

522
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:14,810
I want to thank you for presenting some of the options for the council recommendations.

523
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:20,550
I want to kind of ask our interim time manager Russ.

524
00:49:21,170 --> 00:49:25,370
I believe we do have a dashboard where we have shared all of this now.

525
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:31,670
So it's going to be tracked for completion on that dashboard with the ETA and different

526
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:32,150
milestones.

527
00:49:32,510 --> 00:49:33,310
Is that correct, Russ?

528
00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:34,110
Yes, that's correct.

529
00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:34,550
Yes.

530
00:49:34,670 --> 00:49:35,650
So everyone can follow.

531
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:44,830
It's these recommendations plus the ones from the state auditor plus the ones that came directly

532
00:49:44,830 --> 00:49:45,830
from the council members.

533
00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:47,650
Am I saying it?

534
00:49:47,650 --> 00:49:49,670
Jerry Beckert and Womble Bond Dickinson.

535
00:49:50,010 --> 00:49:50,130
Okay.

536
00:49:50,310 --> 00:49:50,590
Great.

537
00:49:50,830 --> 00:49:50,970
Thanks.

538
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:53,270
Other thoughts and questions?

539
00:49:53,890 --> 00:50:03,590
Also, I want to add that as council together, we want to see not only the recommendations

540
00:50:03,590 --> 00:50:05,810
to be completed, but we can do more.

541
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:09,650
And under the Interim Town Manager, Russ Overturn's leadership,

542
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:14,410
I don't see anything related to Russ,

543
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:17,950
and that's giving me confidence we can change,

544
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:22,230
and we can make a lot of changes in the short-term and long-term

545
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:23,650
and continue to do that.

546
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:25,830
And I feel thank you, John,

547
00:50:25,970 --> 00:50:28,410
and thank you all the efforts of our residents.

548
00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:30,570
You have the right to say anything,

549
00:50:30,570 --> 00:50:37,810
or we are the one going to change and you will see our actions and the first action is online

550
00:50:37,810 --> 00:50:45,930
moving forward dashboard include everything if anyone has any question in a specific question

551
00:50:45,930 --> 00:50:50,370
we can answer. Thank you. Thank you.

552
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:53,010
Other questions? Comments?

553
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:59,470
I have a comment I'd like to share as well if everybody's questions have been answered.

554
00:51:00,790 --> 00:51:08,210
And this isn't on the substance of what you were saying necessarily, but I do want to share

555
00:51:08,210 --> 00:51:13,370
that, you know, we've discussed at great length that there have been significant operational

556
00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:21,090
failures, P card transactions, fund balance policy, the internal audit function.

557
00:51:21,770 --> 00:51:25,470
I was quite angry about that when I found out that that role had been removed.

558
00:51:25,470 --> 00:51:33,090
And I said this the other day, I was doing sort of an impromptu interview, but I understand

559
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:38,670
that you have to say something seven times to make sure the message gets across.

560
00:51:38,970 --> 00:51:41,330
So I'm just going to continue to repeat myself.

561
00:51:42,050 --> 00:51:43,910
We've got a lot of policies in place.

562
00:51:44,450 --> 00:51:47,370
They were, in a lot of circumstances, violated.

563
00:51:48,590 --> 00:51:53,090
What I see is one of our biggest problems here is we have a lot of policy.

564
00:51:53,370 --> 00:51:54,450
We do need some more.

565
00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:57,550
We need some updates, but policy can be ignored.

566
00:51:58,390 --> 00:52:04,170
I shared, yes, or Tuesday night, we need to see the behaviors coupled with that policy.

567
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:09,430
And then I like the way you put it, Mr. Cook, we need to have that transparency.

568
00:52:09,970 --> 00:52:16,490
So what we need is to be able to point somewhere and say anybody that wants to see it can see it,

569
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:20,290
because I think what happened here was these operational failures were,

570
00:52:20,990 --> 00:52:26,450
they were able to happen and happen for far too long because there was no sunshine.

571
00:52:27,110 --> 00:52:31,270
So that, I really hear you on the transparency part of that.

572
00:52:31,650 --> 00:52:36,450
A lot of times when we talk about transparency, we treat it as though, as long as we as a

573
00:52:36,450 --> 00:52:42,070
council or leadership, as long as we, you know, say things into a microphone that

574
00:52:42,070 --> 00:52:42,990
we're being transparent.

575
00:52:43,170 --> 00:52:49,010
But what I believe is true transparency to get us out of this mess is to really

576
00:52:49,010 --> 00:52:56,170
make sure that information is public at every turn. And so I would support any and all ideas

577
00:52:56,170 --> 00:53:03,470
that anybody has to be able to do that. And what we really need is teeth. And I think

578
00:53:03,470 --> 00:53:08,690
that's not necessarily dangling punishment over anybody's heads. I don't think that

579
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:14,170
modifies behavior. But I do believe the teeth when it comes to enforcing these policies

580
00:53:14,170 --> 00:53:19,330
is going to be that level of transparency, and I think it's absolutely critical.

581
00:53:20,330 --> 00:53:25,990
And in the spirit of transparency, I'll repeat again what I said into news cameras on Tuesday.

582
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:31,330
It would be inappropriate for me to sit here and say, I don't have any culpability.

583
00:53:32,650 --> 00:53:40,690
It is, I am part of the machine of failure here, and as an individual, as a council

584
00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:46,450
member that represents, everybody here in Cary, you know, it wasn't good enough to say

585
00:53:46,450 --> 00:53:51,210
that that wasn't inappropriate. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to participate

586
00:53:51,210 --> 00:53:57,950
in that or take that thing or go on that trip. What I needed to do was shout from the rooftops,

587
00:53:58,150 --> 00:54:02,010
stomp my feet and make a really big deal. And I failed to do that. And I can tell

588
00:54:02,010 --> 00:54:06,990
you going forward, you definitely have a council full of people here that are going

589
00:54:06,990 --> 00:54:09,410
to stomp their feet and shout from the rooftops.

590
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,000
And it's also my job to sit here and take the heat.

591
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,120
So that's what I'll continue to do, but I just want to share that.

592
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:29,350
Any other questions or comments from Council?

593
00:54:30,430 --> 00:54:31,450
Thank you, Mr. Cook.

594
00:54:31,830 --> 00:54:32,170
Thank you.

595
00:54:32,490 --> 00:54:36,690
We'll now move to our next item, Public Speaks Out.

596
00:54:36,830 --> 00:54:40,430
We've included instructions for speaking at this forum online

597
00:54:40,430 --> 00:54:41,630
and on the printed agenda.

598
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:46,310
There were three opportunities to participate in Public Speaks Out through written comments

599
00:54:46,310 --> 00:54:49,610
by calling in or by attending here in person tonight.

600
00:54:50,110 --> 00:54:55,270
And if you are here in person, I would like to ask you to take seats to the right if you

601
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:55,630
can.

602
00:54:56,110 --> 00:55:01,210
Otherwise, please line up as your name is called and the next speaker is called.

603
00:55:01,550 --> 00:55:03,410
That will help things move along quicker.

604
00:55:04,110 --> 00:55:08,150
Public Speaks Out speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on

605
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:13,410
any town-related topic, as long as it's not a public hearing. There's a three-minute time

606
00:55:13,410 --> 00:55:18,670
limit that will be enforced. We have a timer on the podium. It starts off with a green

607
00:55:18,670 --> 00:55:22,750
light. When it turns yellow, you have 30 seconds remaining. And when it's expired,

608
00:55:22,890 --> 00:55:27,370
it will flash red. At that point, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers,

609
00:55:27,610 --> 00:55:30,930
I will interrupt you and let you know that your time has expired.

610
00:55:31,970 --> 00:55:36,830
I would ask speakers to be respectful in their comments and direct those comments

611
00:55:36,830 --> 00:55:39,970
to the entire council and not to an individual.

612
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:42,310
I would also ask that everyone in the audience

613
00:55:42,310 --> 00:55:44,410
please understand that this is a business meeting

614
00:55:44,410 --> 00:55:46,770
and respect that this is a business meeting.

615
00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:49,630
Do not applaud, make remarks from your seats.

616
00:55:49,810 --> 00:55:51,350
Use props or do anything else

617
00:55:51,350 --> 00:55:53,210
that may distract from the meeting.

618
00:55:53,790 --> 00:55:55,830
So now is the time for public speaks out

619
00:55:55,830 --> 00:55:57,450
and I'll call on the clerk to share

620
00:55:57,450 --> 00:55:59,070
the number of written comments

621
00:55:59,070 --> 00:56:01,010
and call on any registered speakers.

622
00:56:01,990 --> 00:56:05,210
We have no call-in speakers, six written comments,

623
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:07,510
and 11 in-person registered speakers.

624
00:56:08,210 --> 00:56:11,570
Our first speaker is Nancy Kay, followed by Marie and Syria.

625
00:56:22,450 --> 00:56:25,150
Sadly, I'm not a public speaker, so you just have to bear with me.

626
00:56:25,150 --> 00:56:26,250
Could you move to your left, please?

627
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:27,710
You'll have to bear with me.

628
00:56:27,790 --> 00:56:29,550
I apologize in advance.

629
00:56:32,490 --> 00:56:32,910
So good evening.

630
00:56:33,130 --> 00:56:37,070
My name is Nancy Joyner Kay, and I live at 105 Ashford Court.

631
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:40,010
I want you to know that I love the town of Kerry,

632
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:43,730
and I'm excited about the mixed-use housing being created

633
00:56:43,730 --> 00:56:50,130
under the Imagine Carry Plan, using public and private financing.

634
00:56:51,590 --> 00:56:53,910
I'm here for Amberwood. Yes, I am.

635
00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:56,010
That's a public hearing. You'll get more time.

636
00:56:56,070 --> 00:56:58,650
Wait, wait. Okay, so you're okay.

637
00:56:58,670 --> 00:57:00,630
You're okay. You're okay. It's hard to understand.

638
00:57:00,650 --> 00:57:03,490
Thank goodness. I bought myself some time. Okay, so you'll call me back.

639
00:57:04,070 --> 00:57:04,870
Okay, great.

640
00:57:05,710 --> 00:57:08,030
So please, please, please.

641
00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:17,800
All right. Our next registered speaker is Marie and Sarah, followed by Rob Jones.

642
00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:28,780
Good evening. My name is Marie and Sarah. I live at 407 Clearport Drive, Cary. I have lived here for approximately 20 years.

643
00:57:29,100 --> 00:57:34,780
I'm an attorney for approximately 40, and I've worked for 20 years in local government.

644
00:57:34,780 --> 00:57:43,120
I want to thank the town of Kerry employees, not the ones that went to the $4,164 dinner,

645
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:48,540
not the ones that have been eating lunch every day on the counter.

646
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:55,060
I want to thank the employees that make this and do frontline workers that make it a good

647
00:57:55,060 --> 00:57:55,800
place to live.

648
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,140
The state auditor's report said it was a culture of hostility and deference to leadership.

649
00:58:01,140 --> 00:58:05,780
He reported that multiple employees spoke of having observed something they thought they

650
00:58:05,780 --> 00:58:08,660
should report, but they had no one to report it to.

651
00:58:09,340 --> 00:58:13,980
Of Kerry's 189 policies, only 15 applied to employees.

652
00:58:14,540 --> 00:58:18,240
One EEO statement mentions reporting a complaint to the town manager.

653
00:58:18,580 --> 00:58:20,620
How did that work out for Kerry employees?

654
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:26,220
There is no policy addressing harassment, anti-retaliation, whistle-blower protection

655
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:30,040
are among the policies recommended by the state, but I want to add one more.

656
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:31,520
or a grievance process.

657
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,020
All of our neighbors, city of Raleigh, city of Durham,

658
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,500
county of Durham, county of Wake that you sit in

659
00:58:37,500 --> 00:58:39,260
have a grievance process.

660
00:58:39,740 --> 00:58:40,780
You can cure it tonight.

661
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,600
Womble recommended an abuzzment.

662
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,000
Name outside counsel to hear grievances

663
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,960
that can be investigated.

664
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:50,400
If they are the direct reports,

665
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,200
you can send those to outside counsel.

666
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,040
I hope you adopt all of the recommendations

667
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,380
of the state auditor and the Womble report,

668
00:58:57,380 --> 00:59:04,440
including, where in the Womble Report recommended examining the structure of the manager's office,

669
00:59:04,900 --> 00:59:11,280
which was, quote, expanded in size and reach, put another way, and overstaffed top-heavy

670
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,580
division or another extravagance.

671
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,880
The culture of extravagance revealed in the State Auditor's Report has brought widespread

672
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:29,780
public disgrace to the town and to the Democratic Party that I am proud member of that I have

673
00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:36,140
volunteered many, many years in these 20 years and I wish and I call upon the Legislature

674
00:59:36,140 --> 00:59:42,860
would respond by passing a local act to allow a recall election.

675
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:44,720
24,

676
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:59,140
2021, 2025, we're complicit by accepting expensive dinners, car service.

677
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,860
Travel, tuition, Ray-Ban sunglasses, and so much more, all of which contradicts the most

678
01:00:07,860 --> 01:00:18,440
recent, feigned ignorance of excesses, as reported by the State Auditor. I do not agree with Republicans

679
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,740
very often, but the State Auditor nailed it.

680
01:00:22,740 --> 01:00:23,240
Yes.

681
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,400
I'm sorry to inform you that time is expired.

682
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:26,820
That's right.

683
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:27,640
Thank you so much.

684
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,540
Our next speaker is Rob Jones, followed by Sharon Tobias.

685
01:00:54,980 --> 01:00:58,000
Our next speaker is Rob Jones, followed by Sharon Tobias.

686
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:00,520
Rob Jones here.

687
01:01:03,580 --> 01:01:04,960
Go to the next speaker, please.

688
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:06,200
Sharon Tobias.

689
01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:16,410
Well, that's a tough act to follow, but I'm going to try.

690
01:01:17,330 --> 01:01:19,650
I have my notes, but I think I'm going to table it.

691
01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:24,230
But I went down the rabbit hole of the P card, and probably the most oversight right now I

692
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:26,410
can find is the three minutes I'm limited to.

693
01:01:29,090 --> 01:01:34,750
Anyhow, with all due respect about the Womble Report, as somebody who is based in science,

694
01:01:34,930 --> 01:01:39,750
research, and evidence-based practice, when you limit what you ask for, you get back what

695
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:40,710
you're looking for.

696
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:48,770
So when you limit to 28 employees, you didn't find the $750 Lugano's charge on

697
01:01:48,770 --> 01:01:55,170
Sunday. You didn't find the Pinehurst Brewery. You didn't see almost 800,000

698
01:01:55,170 --> 01:01:56,850
worth of Amazon charges.

699
01:01:59,870 --> 01:02:02,350
Hang on, I'm nervous.

700
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:07,490
But how do you control that? Is it

701
01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:12,970
P cards linked to personal Amazon accounts? How do you know what the town

702
01:02:12,970 --> 01:02:18,690
bought stays in the town? How do you know the $120,000 spent at Michael's

703
01:02:18,690 --> 01:02:26,010
stayed in the town. How do you know $700,000 spent multiple times at Lowe's

704
01:02:26,010 --> 01:02:30,970
stayed in the town. It's not the way a P card system is designed to work.

705
01:02:31,590 --> 01:02:36,710
You've got split charging on multiple purchases at a printer.

706
01:02:37,030 --> 01:02:43,170
I'm sorry, I'm so nervous. To the tune of $8,008 for four purchases,

707
01:02:43,870 --> 01:02:49,610
I can just pose the question, but most likely was that hiding some sort of non-compete where

708
01:02:49,610 --> 01:02:51,590
you didn't put it out for competitive bidding.

709
01:02:53,050 --> 01:02:56,090
How do you control and leverage your buying power?

710
01:02:56,850 --> 01:03:00,810
55 P cards went dark when Sean Steele stepped down.

711
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:08,930
But with all due respect, you only get what you want to find unless you go into it

712
01:03:08,930 --> 01:03:11,450
with an open mind and say, investigate all the P cards.

713
01:03:11,450 --> 01:03:18,210
And that's why I had to table my notes when I heard there was no concerning other transactions.

714
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:23,350
What about the Venmo to a person to the tune of $9,000?

715
01:03:24,530 --> 01:03:29,270
Woo! That means somebody's P card linked to their personal Venmo.

716
01:03:30,090 --> 01:03:34,770
There is a lot more work to do because your taxpayers can't continue to shoulder the burden.

717
01:03:35,610 --> 01:03:37,410
We can't – you

718
01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:48,200
know, you – good question, and I wish I could remember more of the totals.

719
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,700
Do you realize you have a $32,000 transaction to give cards?

720
01:03:53,820 --> 01:03:56,060
Who's – who's got the log?

721
01:03:56,740 --> 01:04:00,560
But my point being is your problem transcends 28 people.

722
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,400
There's people out there using Amazon cards that – that's my Yankee accent – Cods

723
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,500
that you can't track.

724
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,040
Where are the receipts?

725
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,060
I've requested the receipts for Pinehurst Brewery because it's the same

726
01:04:14,060 --> 01:04:21,860
P-card on Saturdays. Do you, oh shoot, $8,000 food purchase at Lazy Days. Done at

727
01:04:21,860 --> 01:04:24,260
the food trucks. Thank you. Our

728
01:04:30,980 --> 01:04:33,780
next

729
01:04:37,490 --> 01:04:39,990
speaker is Michael Anderson followed

730
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:40,750
by Linda Shaw.

731
01:04:58,700 --> 01:05:02,920
Mayor, council members, Dancing Queens. My name is Michael

732
01:05:04,020 --> 01:05:09,440
I am a Wake County resident, a local small business owner, tax professional, and an enrolled

733
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:09,780
agent.

734
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,040
I'm not just speaking for myself here tonight.

735
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,400
I am representing the dozens of hardworking taxpayers who trust me with their tax return

736
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,160
preparation, planning, and representing them before federal, state, and local taxing

737
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:20,460
authorities.

738
01:05:21,100 --> 01:05:24,840
Every single day I sit across my desk from clients and advise them that they must

739
01:05:25,340 --> 01:05:29,060
follow the rules, pay their fair share of taxes, and frankly, you all are making

740
01:05:29,060 --> 01:05:29,820
me look like an idiot.

741
01:05:29,820 --> 01:05:34,680
it. I tell my clients to scrape together their tax payments just for you to take

742
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,700
their hard-earned money and blow it because you are too lazy, too entitled,

743
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,320
or too incompetent to do your jobs.

744
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:44,820
Let's talk about your priorities. You jacked up

745
01:05:44,820 --> 01:05:48,640
property taxes on my clients by 5% and then had a gall to push for another

746
01:05:49,220 --> 01:05:53,780
11% hike. Meanwhile, you sit back and collect an $800 monthly car

747
01:05:53,780 --> 01:05:57,920
allowance for a part-time gig. Taxpayers are essentially paying for your car to

748
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:03,600
drive around town, you are actively failing to manage. Throw in your $2,400 annual cell

749
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,780
phone and internet allowances, and it's no wonder you are completely clueless that the

750
01:06:06,780 --> 01:06:11,320
town's emergency reserves had tanked below mandatory minimums. You are too busy caching

751
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,340
your own checks to look at the balance sheet. You expect us to believe you are just helpless

752
01:06:15,340 --> 01:06:21,440
victims misled by a mastermind town manager? It's pathetic. The auditor's report proves

753
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,580
you were not victims. You are willfully ignorant enablers.

754
01:06:27,570 --> 01:06:28,670
The report explicitly

755
01:06:28,670 --> 01:06:32,430
In these states, you deliberately delegated financial matters away so you wouldn't have

756
01:06:32,430 --> 01:06:33,030
to deal with them.

757
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:35,790
Under this government, you are an elected body.

758
01:06:36,110 --> 01:06:37,010
You set the policies.

759
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:39,110
You're supposed to see the operations.

760
01:06:40,030 --> 01:06:44,510
You couldn't be bothered to oversee the budget, but you definitely found time to spend over

761
01:06:44,510 --> 01:06:51,270
$121,000 on video production at your Wilmington retreat, including a $34,000 documentary about

762
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:54,330
your own choreographed Dancing Queen dance video.

763
01:06:55,310 --> 01:07:00,210
Let's not forget the $37,000 of public money quietly siphoned off to pay for a sitting

764
01:07:00,210 --> 01:07:02,250
council member's graduate tuition.

765
01:07:03,030 --> 01:07:06,710
You tell the town you didn't know what was happening, give us a break.

766
01:07:07,450 --> 01:07:09,690
You just didn't care as long as you got your paycheck.

767
01:07:10,590 --> 01:07:12,190
Playing dumb is not a defense.

768
01:07:12,670 --> 01:07:14,710
It is a confession of gross incompetence.

769
01:07:15,170 --> 01:07:19,250
You abandoned your fiduciary duty because acting as a mindless rubber stamp was easier

770
01:07:19,250 --> 01:07:21,010
than doing the work you were elected to do.

771
01:07:21,610 --> 01:07:22,710
Stop passing the buck.

772
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:30,090
If you are a disgrace to public service in this town if you lack the spine to read a budget and protect this town

773
01:07:30,090 --> 01:07:34,350
Or if you are in that Dancing Queen video resign immediately

774
01:07:38,460 --> 01:07:43,520
Otherwise my clients and I will gladly throw you out at the ballot box. Thank you

775
01:07:45,740 --> 01:07:46,860
Our next

776
01:07:51,980 --> 01:07:54,240
speaker is Linda Shaw

777
01:07:54,920 --> 01:08:00,360
Our next speaker is Linda Shaw followed by Andrew Haas

778
01:08:06,370 --> 01:08:09,110
Okay, we'll go to Andrew.

779
01:08:10,090 --> 01:08:10,810
I'm sorry.

780
01:08:11,730 --> 01:08:14,610
Linda is for the Amber Woods, so we'll move her to that list.

781
01:08:14,810 --> 01:08:18,090
And our next speaker is Andrew Haas, followed by Elliot Tardiff.

782
01:08:23,830 --> 01:08:26,690
Dear members of the Town Council and citizens of Cary,

783
01:08:27,290 --> 01:08:28,490
my name is Andrew Haas.

784
01:08:28,850 --> 01:08:33,050
Last month I stood here and used this public forum in a way that dishonored you.

785
01:08:33,810 --> 01:08:37,910
The purpose of this meeting and the convictions I claim should shape my life.

786
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:44,430
I also spoke in a way that was deeply disrespectful to many of our immigrant and Hispanic communities.

787
01:08:44,970 --> 01:08:46,310
For that, I'm sincerely sorry.

788
01:08:47,650 --> 01:08:51,390
You provided this forum so the citizens can contribute to the good of our community.

789
01:08:52,090 --> 01:08:56,430
Instead of doing that, I used my time in a way that created confusion, division, and

790
01:08:56,430 --> 01:08:56,610
hurt.

791
01:08:57,690 --> 01:09:01,810
I misused both the opportunity and the trust that comes with speaking before this council.

792
01:09:02,330 --> 01:09:03,350
And I apologize.

793
01:09:04,810 --> 01:09:10,370
In a misguided attempt to express support for law enforcement officers, I chose to read

794
01:09:10,370 --> 01:09:11,970
the script of a satirical video.

795
01:09:12,890 --> 01:09:17,090
I wanted to communicate one message, but instead communicated something very different.

796
01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:22,750
My words contributed to rhetoric that many understandably heard as racist and demeaning.

797
01:09:23,490 --> 01:09:28,770
While I did not write them, those were the words I chose to speak, publicly, and

798
01:09:28,770 --> 01:09:30,370
I take full responsibility for them.

799
01:09:31,110 --> 01:09:34,570
I acted without wisdom, without counsel, and without prayer.

800
01:09:35,730 --> 01:09:41,470
Looking back, I see how pride convinced me that being provocative would accomplish something

801
01:09:41,470 --> 01:09:42,030
good.

802
01:09:42,670 --> 01:09:45,350
Instead, it revealed poor judgment and caused real harm.

803
01:09:46,690 --> 01:09:49,190
As a Christian, I know Jesus commands us to love our neighbors.

804
01:09:49,890 --> 01:09:54,730
This concludes speaking about every person with dignity and honor because each person

805
01:09:54,730 --> 01:09:55,910
bears the image of God.

806
01:09:56,910 --> 01:09:58,850
My words failed to reflect that calling.

807
01:09:58,850 --> 01:10:03,170
They reflected frustration instead of love and they produced a vision where I should have

808
01:10:03,170 --> 01:10:04,490
sought understanding and peace.

809
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:11,230
I'm deeply grieved that I have had to confront the painful reality that what I said does not

810
01:10:11,230 --> 01:10:15,430
reflect the man that I want to be or the Lord I profess to follow and that realization

811
01:10:15,430 --> 01:10:16,550
has been humbling.

812
01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:23,530
I apologize to this council, to the immigrant and Hispanic communities, to my church, to

813
01:10:23,530 --> 01:10:27,690
my family, to the ministry where I used to serve and my co-workers, to my friends

814
01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:30,710
and to anyone who is hurt or disappointed by what I said.

815
01:10:32,010 --> 01:10:36,110
I cannot undo my words, I cannot erase the hurt they caused,

816
01:10:36,610 --> 01:10:40,190
I can only acknowledge my failure, ask for your forgiveness,

817
01:10:41,290 --> 01:10:45,210
and commit myself to speaking with greater humility, wisdom, and love in the future.

818
01:10:46,430 --> 01:10:49,090
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to return today.

819
01:10:49,930 --> 01:10:53,590
I remain grateful to live in a country where we have freedom to speak

820
01:10:54,030 --> 01:11:00,290
and where we also have the responsibility to own our words when we fail. Thank you

821
01:11:00,290 --> 01:11:02,750
for your time. May God bless the town of Kerry.

822
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:12,450
Our next speaker is Elliot Tardiff

823
01:11:12,450 --> 01:11:14,830
followed by Evan Crockett.

824
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:22,720
Before I begin I'd like to say I'm right at three

825
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:28,900
minutes so please. Members of the Town Council, Mr. Overton, Mr. Mayor, good

826
01:11:28,900 --> 01:11:32,740
to see you. Peace be with you and yours. My name is Elliot Tardiff, Kerry

827
01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:38,280
residents since 2014. My thoughts are rising out of the published reports of recent weeks or two

828
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:42,760
voluminous to put into three minutes, which is why I've provided them to you on the written record.

829
01:11:43,860 --> 01:11:47,880
Dissembling the sanitary language of your response and getting down to the dirty truth,

830
01:11:48,020 --> 01:11:54,880
it wasn't just systems that failed to prevent this. Laws did. People did. You did. My trust

831
01:11:54,880 --> 01:12:02,720
in government has been broken now at the local level too. Holistic changes discussed in the

832
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:09,680
to restore it. Here's two. First, the town manager town council model of government has been rightfully

833
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:17,220
scrutinized, but state law section 160A of the general statutes specifically stipulates this

834
01:12:17,220 --> 01:12:23,060
structure for all local governments. As we have seen here and elsewhere, this model imbues too

835
01:12:23,060 --> 01:12:28,820
much power unto a person who is accountable to too few and unaccountable to too many.

836
01:12:28,820 --> 01:12:35,540
If Mr. Boliek were to perform the same rigorous review he did here unto all other local governments

837
01:12:35,540 --> 01:12:39,980
across the state, not one excluded, how many more carries would he find?

838
01:12:40,700 --> 01:12:46,480
This model excludes the weight of the townspeople and is too vulnerable to corruption, and Joan

839
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:50,100
Street must reform Section 160A accordingly.

840
01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:54,880
I have written my representatives urging them to do exactly this.

841
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,480
This email is attached to my written comments.

842
01:12:57,480 --> 01:13:03,660
Second, this is a town of nearly 200,000 people, staffed by hundreds, all charged with

843
01:13:03,660 --> 01:13:09,820
prosecuting the town's annual budget, now over $570 million annually in rising, same

844
01:13:09,820 --> 01:13:16,100
as our property taxes, but overseen by a deus of part-time elected leaders.

845
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,100
While this is the rule, not the exception, I ask you, would these events have been

846
01:13:22,100 --> 01:13:24,900
nipped in the bud if you had a regular presence in Town Hall?

847
01:13:24,900 --> 01:13:33,260
As it was, the genesis of these revelations came from staff abandoning the chain of command to demand your audience.

848
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:40,920
The business of this large dynamic town commands its elected leaders to have a full-time commitment to the same.

849
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:49,320
This means making Kerry's elected leaders full-time employees of this town and with a regular presence in town hall.

850
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,000
Work posture begets culture, and it starts with you.

851
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:59,480
12 minute response times, the botched trolley car purchase, books and documented theater of self-indulgence.

852
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:05,700
These are part and parcel to your records, for which there will be accountability and judgment come Election Day,

853
01:14:06,220 --> 01:14:10,580
but are also broader indictments on the part-time nature of this arrangement.

854
01:14:11,300 --> 01:14:13,580
Time is the only true fix.

855
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:14,700
Thank you for yours.

856
01:14:16,420 --> 01:14:17,040
Our

857
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,580
next speaker is Evan Crockett, followed by Hanna Williams.

858
01:14:23,580 --> 01:14:23,800
Williams.

859
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:40,140
Good evening. My name is Evan Crochet. I'm a Cary resident and owner of Bicrochet

860
01:14:40,140 --> 01:14:45,480
Media Lab, a local video production company. A Facebook post I made recently led to great

861
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:49,040
conversations with council members, and I thank council members Craig and Cohn Johnson

862
01:14:49,410 --> 01:14:53,340
for taking the time to share their insight on my post. I'm standing here today to talk

863
01:14:53,340 --> 01:14:57,380
about restoring public trust after the state auditor's report as it relates to my expertise

864
01:14:57,380 --> 01:14:59,960
and video production. The absurdity of those fine

865
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:04,840
The findings drove me to put my thoughts on record today regarding the $35,000 taxpayer

866
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:09,060
funded documentary, Dancing Queen, a Case Study. I can't believe I just said that.

867
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:14,980
Taxpayers should have never foot the bill for an ego-filled project like that. A half-hour

868
01:15:14,980 --> 01:15:20,760
video like that proves a culture of self-importance has taken root in upper management and in

869
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:25,820
the town's leadership. Top administrators living in privilege while overworked residents

870
01:15:25,820 --> 01:15:28,340
and staff suffer in silence in an

871
01:15:28,340 --> 01:15:30,540
unaffordable, increasingly unafforable town.

872
01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:35,000
As a documentarian, I know what video production costs

873
01:15:35,580 --> 01:15:36,980
in time and resources.

874
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,100
Watching leadership boast on camera

875
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:41,000
about taking time out of their work day

876
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,840
from their job shows me just how disconnected

877
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:45,460
they are from people like me.

878
01:15:46,580 --> 01:15:49,780
It is truly an unbelievable display of government waste

879
01:15:49,780 --> 01:15:52,820
and everyone involved should be ashamed and embarrassed

880
01:15:52,820 --> 01:15:55,980
that a high-level production was wasted on this venture.

881
01:15:56,740 --> 01:15:59,400
The former town manager was shown the door several months ago,

882
01:15:59,860 --> 01:16:01,540
but look who's who still in their roles,

883
01:16:01,700 --> 01:16:03,760
even though they were heavily featured in the documentary.

884
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:11,680
Several of these people earned well over $200,000 a year.

885
01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:13,800
There is a glaring double standard.

886
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,960
If a worker making Wake County's average of $70,000

887
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,200
committed these ethics violations and breaches,

888
01:16:19,380 --> 01:16:20,600
they'd be fired on the spot.

889
01:16:22,710 --> 01:16:28,970
My question is very simple. Who else knew about the cost? $35,000 is six

890
01:16:28,970 --> 01:16:32,390
months of wages for the average resident, spent on 30 minutes of vanity.

891
01:16:32,850 --> 01:16:37,070
Whether through active participation or willful ignorance, failing to ask where

892
01:16:37,070 --> 01:16:41,430
that money went isn't a lapse in judgment, it's total negligence of

893
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:47,510
duty. When people who are hired as legal, financial, strategy, and HR guardrails

894
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:51,230
participate in this nonsense, it's like referees putting on jerseys to

895
01:16:51,230 --> 01:16:55,770
play for the team. There's nobody left to enforce the rules. Anyone complicit should

896
01:16:55,770 --> 01:17:04,670
do the right thing and resign from their roles. And I welcome, I welcome the ongoing criminal

897
01:17:04,670 --> 01:17:09,950
investigation and I hope the truth prevails. And I'm not here just to scold. We need

898
01:17:09,950 --> 01:17:13,730
to reallocate this marketing budget to establish something I'm calling the Cary

899
01:17:13,730 --> 01:17:18,250
Community Storytelling Initiative. Just as live streaming council meetings yield

900
01:17:18,250 --> 01:17:23,870
a massive return on trust. Building an infrastructure for local storytelling is the logical way to

901
01:17:23,870 --> 01:17:28,150
spend marketing dollars in the town of Cary. Instead of handing out unmonitored credit cards

902
01:17:28,150 --> 01:17:33,890
with zero oversight, let's create a quarterly application process for local media LLCs to

903
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:38,850
compete for roles like this. Pair creators with high school classes for youth mentorship

904
01:17:38,850 --> 01:17:43,090
and point that production back to our town. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

905
01:18:03,140 --> 01:18:03,520
Our last

906
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:04,600
Council, Madam Clerk,

907
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:20,670
I am profoundly disappointed at what I have engaged in this Council and

908
01:18:20,670 --> 01:18:28,270
I have given my advice privately, which recently has one ignored. And much of what you are

909
01:18:28,270 --> 01:18:36,030
witnessing tonight I forewarned you about and I gave steps on how to mitigate

910
01:18:36,030 --> 01:18:43,220
some of what you see tonight but this is what your hand is called for. I

911
01:18:43,220 --> 01:18:51,320
adamantly object to the myth being propagated that the substance of the

912
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:57,560
investigation can be placed entirely on the former town manager.

913
01:19:02,140 --> 01:19:03,100
It is very

914
01:19:03,100 --> 01:19:13,420
truthful that he must answer for his own conduct, but placing all responsibility on one former

915
01:19:13,420 --> 01:19:18,240
employee would be a broad leap of Olympic proportions.

916
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:27,740
We should call him King Sean because he had unilaterally authority that I had never seen

917
01:19:27,740 --> 01:19:28,020
before.

918
01:19:28,220 --> 01:19:32,180
The mayor, you have been in office for 20 years.

919
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:41,860
It is not only an insult to these great residents of this incredible town, but only your own

920
01:19:41,860 --> 01:19:48,980
self to say that you can be in office with that much experience and allow something like

921
01:19:48,980 --> 01:19:49,720
that to take place.

922
01:19:49,940 --> 01:19:58,680
The practical reality is that the report identifies challenges, operational dynamics, insufficient

923
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:04,660
efficient performance metrics, limited counsel oversight, and also what I wanted to mention

924
01:20:06,900 --> 01:20:16,240
is this conference Tuesday, it was a tragic lack of humility within a system that allowed

925
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:20,920
these circumstances to continue. The auditor, and I think we all need to applaud him, that

926
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:29,180
That was an unbelievable, and I am in research science, too, the detail to that investigation

927
01:20:30,010 --> 01:20:41,060
needs to be admired and commended, specifically when he mentioned this council, this is the

928
01:20:41,060 --> 01:20:47,840
quote from that report, the investigation, enabled this approach and allowed it to continue.

929
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:55,420
you. That was in the report of the state auditor. To my expectation, the town must now focus

930
01:20:55,420 --> 01:21:00,540
on building out the oversight function, which was mentioned, establish additional safeguards

931
01:21:00,540 --> 01:21:07,420
against waste and retaliation, and ensuring that no official may act unilaterally outside

932
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:14,980
clearly defined parameters. I respectfully request a specifically scheduled town hall

933
01:21:14,980 --> 01:21:21,340
style meeting where residents may confer directly with the mayor and council receive

934
01:21:21,340 --> 01:21:27,000
substantive answers and evaluate the town's corrective mandate before public

935
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:30,220
confidence continues on a downward trajectory.

936
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:31,380
Thank you.

937
01:21:38,500 --> 01:21:39,780
That's all our rest your speakers.

938
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,800
How much time is left in public speaks out?

939
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,460
We started at 7.24 and we are currently at 7.50.

940
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:45,180
Okay.

941
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:48,020
If you would like to speak at public speaks out, now is your opportunity.

942
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:49,600
Please.

943
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:53,220
I would ask that you line up to the right there.

944
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:56,760
When you come to the podium, please give your name.

945
01:21:58,020 --> 01:22:03,020
Hi, I'm Mark Zumbach. I'm a Cary resident since 1967.

946
01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:09,400
I won't reiterate a lot of the things that have been said already,

947
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:14,060
but I do want to make a comment about moving forward.

948
01:22:14,060 --> 01:22:22,080
And that is what I see as one of the biggest problems with Mr. Siegel is that he was a superstar.

949
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:31,620
And the council was blinded by a rainmaker and a superstar, and they turned a whole lot over to him.

950
01:22:31,700 --> 01:22:35,760
And I just really want to caution we not do that moving forward.

951
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:37,820
Look within the town.

952
01:22:37,820 --> 01:22:42,540
We don't need to go outside and find some flashy person who's shown up in the media

953
01:22:42,540 --> 01:22:46,140
and bring them in and hand over the keys to them.

954
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:54,060
And then the other point I wanted to make is of the findings, I think the most horrifying

955
01:22:54,060 --> 01:23:00,220
finding is that the surveys of town employees were stopped 10 years ago.

956
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:06,180
And I mean, every place I've ever worked, that's an annual must do.

957
01:23:06,180 --> 01:23:13,620
And it's not just been a culture of privilege in the town, but it's been a culture of bullying.

958
01:23:14,300 --> 01:23:16,980
And I know that, and I'm not an employee.

959
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:24,540
And I know if you were not kissing Sean's hem, if you were not his psychophant, you

960
01:23:24,540 --> 01:23:25,480
were on the outs.

961
01:23:26,180 --> 01:23:28,460
And it's ugly.

962
01:23:28,940 --> 01:23:30,120
It's really, really ugly.

963
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,520
And I just really want to encourage.

964
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:40,020
I want to add one more thing, Town Council, implement a policy of taking an employee to

965
01:23:40,020 --> 01:23:41,360
lunch every Friday.

966
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,500
You know, I mean, they don't see you guys.

967
01:23:45,420 --> 01:23:51,000
I've talked with several town employees who said the last mayor they saw walk through

968
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,040
the halls was Glenn Lang.

969
01:23:55,220 --> 01:24:01,140
So you're not making yourselves known in the town halls here.

970
01:24:01,140 --> 01:24:03,520
and it shows. Thank you.

971
01:24:17,540 --> 01:24:21,420
Good evening, Mayor Weimbrecht and members of the Council. My name is Todd McGee and

972
01:24:21,420 --> 01:24:26,200
I am a 22-year resident of Cary. Like many, I am concerned about what has happened in

973
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:30,520
the last year in our town government. Those concerns grew when the State Auditor's Report

974
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:35,640
came out and revealed widespread problems that go much further than an out-of-control

975
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:40,220
town manager. I am here tonight because I fear the town council will try to use

976
01:24:40,220 --> 01:24:46,180
Sean Stiegel as a convenient scapegoat and not address some of the issues I would like

977
01:24:46,180 --> 01:24:47,360
to draw your attention to.

978
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:51,980
First is the sheer number of town employees who have P cards.

979
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:54,780
Second is the lax oversight of these cards.

980
01:24:55,380 --> 01:24:59,800
Third is the gross misuse of these cards by employees who should know better.

981
01:25:00,380 --> 01:25:05,260
I have no doubt Sean set a terrible example, but that doesn't excuse those who followed

982
01:25:05,260 --> 01:25:05,780
his lead.

983
01:25:05,780 --> 01:25:12,460
Apparently, many employees were, and perhaps still are, convinced town P cards are their

984
01:25:12,460 --> 01:25:13,920
personal get-a-lunch-free card.

985
01:25:14,500 --> 01:25:19,980
The auditor's report noted many trips to Sassoul, Academy Street, Bistro, and Kraft Public

986
01:25:19,980 --> 01:25:20,300
House.

987
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:25,320
Favorite locations for town employees are the Peck and Plume Restaurant and Scratch

988
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:26,260
Kitchen and Taproom.

989
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:32,280
Both were visited 128 times over the two years covered by the auditor's report.

990
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:39,140
In other words, 11 times a month, the tax-paying citizens of Cary provided a free lunch for

991
01:25:39,140 --> 01:25:41,360
employees at either of those two restaurants.

992
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:42,780
This is unacceptable.

993
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:49,660
The Town of Cary's P-Card policy states, items and or services to be purchased are for the

994
01:25:49,660 --> 01:25:51,300
official use of the Town of Cary.

995
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,880
I would like to know how paying for employee meals at upscale eating establishments

996
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:57,660
can be considered an official use.

997
01:25:57,660 --> 01:26:02,360
If you look at the auditor's report, Card 529 belonged to Stiegel.

998
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:07,480
In the two years, he racked up almost $3,000 in non-travel-related meals.

999
01:26:08,020 --> 01:26:09,600
However, he was not the worst defender.

1000
01:26:10,260 --> 01:26:17,780
Card 614 racked up almost $6,000 in local dining expenses with 72 different visits.

1001
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:19,220
That's three per month.

1002
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:24,960
The charges are often for more than $100, meaning at least three or four employees were in on this.

1003
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:27,640
Many speakers here are expressing their shock and anger.

1004
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,900
I share those sentiments, but I am not here just to vent.

1005
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,000
I am here to ask you to take two actions.

1006
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:38,020
First, adopt a policy banning any employee from paying for any meal

1007
01:26:38,020 --> 01:26:40,340
with the town P card effective immediately.

1008
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:45,200
Second, I ask you to review the local dining expenses found on these P cards

1009
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,460
back to January 1st, 2021,

1010
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,460
and require employees to reimburse the town for these costs

1011
01:26:51,460 --> 01:26:53,060
unless they can provide

1012
01:26:56,450 --> 01:27:00,750
documentation to prove they're served at public purpose.

1013
01:27:01,250 --> 01:27:06,070
Tax dollars are not a luxury to spend on personal vanity projects like videos or books

1014
01:27:06,070 --> 01:27:12,130
or for extravagances like limousines and luxury suites, nor are they to be used to pay for employees' dining habits.

1015
01:27:12,650 --> 01:27:17,970
There seems to be a sense of entitlement among some staff, and on behalf of Kerry's tax-paying citizens,

1016
01:27:18,490 --> 01:27:20,870
I ask you to help correct this behavior. Thank you.

1017
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:40,240
Good evening, Town Council.

1018
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:41,940
My name is Mark Stolman.

1019
01:27:42,220 --> 01:27:46,040
I'm a Cary taxpayer and a resident in downtown Cary.

1020
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:52,520
I'm recently retired as a 30-year North Carolina

1021
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:53,880
certified public accountant.

1022
01:27:54,620 --> 01:27:57,500
I also sat in your chairs for 10 years

1023
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,160
in the town of Morrisville recently.

1024
01:28:01,300 --> 01:28:02,640
You know, in the old days,

1025
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,140
when town folks were really upset,

1026
01:28:05,380 --> 01:28:08,760
they'd come to town hall with torches and pitchforks.

1027
01:28:09,740 --> 01:28:12,540
I'm coming forward with something a lot more scary.

1028
01:28:12,740 --> 01:28:16,140
That's my tax bill I just received from the town of Kerry.

1029
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:24,260
I think most people accept taxes as a way of life.

1030
01:28:24,780 --> 01:28:26,720
They accept paying them every year.

1031
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:32,360
But they should really be focused on the three P's of municipal government, planning,

1032
01:28:32,780 --> 01:28:36,820
parks and rec, public safety, and public works.

1033
01:28:37,620 --> 01:28:41,380
Outside of that, you should really question what your money is being spent on.

1034
01:28:41,380 --> 01:28:50,300
You know, it's not okay to buy Ray-Ban sunglasses, $200 steak dinners, banana foster desserts,

1035
01:28:50,740 --> 01:28:53,580
and gourmet popcorn on our dime.

1036
01:28:55,220 --> 01:28:58,980
It's not okay to have the taxpayers fund your graduate tuition.

1037
01:29:04,950 --> 01:29:10,670
It's not okay to spend a million dollars plus on unsellable land because it's your favorite

1038
01:29:10,670 --> 01:29:12,750
apartment developer who's selling it.

1039
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:21,370
It's not okay to fund an egotistical book about how great your town manager is and is

1040
01:29:21,370 --> 01:29:24,430
a blueprint for how to misspend millions of dollars.

1041
01:29:25,230 --> 01:29:31,830
It's also not okay to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a Dancing Queen video and especially

1042
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:37,890
not okay to spend more money on a video on how you made the video of Dancing Queens.

1043
01:29:39,250 --> 01:29:40,870
This is merely the tip of the iceberg.

1044
01:29:41,490 --> 01:29:46,350
I think if you go back enough years, you're going to find that the abuse was in the tens

1045
01:29:46,350 --> 01:29:47,270
of millions of dollars.

1046
01:29:48,150 --> 01:29:54,110
If you think this is okay, I think you should rethink your public service career.

1047
01:29:57,460 --> 01:29:59,520
Just think of the money that you could have spent.

1048
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,120
On raises for your police and fire. Think about the tax rates that you could have lowered if you had not spent this money.

1049
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:16,020
The town manager did not do this on his own. There are a lot of town leaders and staff leaders that let this happen.

1050
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:27,040
Sadly, sadly there have been no formal apologies, only tone deaf, tax increases. One council member said recently,

1051
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:29,320
Finally, I regret that I didn't ask harder questions.

1052
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:31,280
These are not hard questions.

1053
01:30:31,700 --> 01:30:32,740
This is common sense.

1054
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:39,500
A tough question is, why haven't we seen more retirements and firings and recognitions?

1055
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:42,540
Please do a better job with our tax dollars.

1056
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:47,600
I'm retired and on a fixed income, and I can't pay for any more of this nonsense.

1057
01:30:48,020 --> 01:30:48,760
Thank you.

1058
01:31:05,740 --> 01:31:07,080
Good evening, Mayor and Council.

1059
01:31:07,340 --> 01:31:08,000
I'm Renee Miller.

1060
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:08,720
And

1061
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:18,140
unfortunately, I have been ill the past month, but I did have an opportunity to review

1062
01:31:18,140 --> 01:31:20,740
some of the auditor's report.

1063
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:26,740
And one item in particular jumped out at me, one that you have particularly benefited

1064
01:31:26,740 --> 01:31:27,160
from.

1065
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:32,940
And that is the $802 a month that you receive in car allowance.

1066
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:41,240
That equals, at the current rates, 1,055 miles we are paying for you to drive.

1067
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:51,640
In one case, it means 1,758 trips to Town Hall for one of the council members.

1068
01:31:53,160 --> 01:32:01,560
I believe that for three months, you should vlog your miles just like any other employee

1069
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:07,860
would, and those logs should be publicly posted and then averaged to reset this amount

1070
01:32:07,860 --> 01:32:09,640
to something that's more reasonable.

1071
01:32:10,380 --> 01:32:11,120
Thank you.

1072
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:12,060
How

1073
01:32:15,330 --> 01:32:16,750
much time do we have left?

1074
01:32:17,190 --> 01:32:19,170
We are at 8 o'clock, so 24 minutes.

1075
01:32:19,970 --> 01:32:22,390
If you'd like to speak, if public speaks out, we...

1076
01:32:23,230 --> 01:32:24,190
How about a budget board?

1077
01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:25,170
Now is your opportunity.

1078
01:32:26,130 --> 01:32:27,870
Anyone else if public speaks out?

1079
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:34,800
Any topic that's not a public hearing.

1080
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:36,600
Is Amber Wood a public hearing?

1081
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:38,300
Yes, Amber Wood is a public hearing.

1082
01:32:39,460 --> 01:32:40,300
Anyone else?

1083
01:32:44,060 --> 01:32:46,460
Okay, we'll close public speaks out.

1084
01:32:46,980 --> 01:32:49,260
We'll move to the consent agenda,

1085
01:32:49,260 --> 01:32:51,920
which is item four, if you're following along,

1086
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:55,260
for the benefit of people watching our meeting streaming,

1087
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:58,720
I will take a moment to review our consent agenda items.

1088
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:00,840
One vote approves these items.

1089
01:33:01,660 --> 01:33:03,900
On the consent agenda, we have approval of minutes,

1090
01:33:05,060 --> 01:33:07,600
resolution approving Act 41 amendment

1091
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,160
to Chatham-Carrie Joint Land Use Plan,

1092
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:13,140
resolution calling for a public hearing

1093
01:33:13,140 --> 01:33:16,060
for 25A09 Jacobs Creek,

1094
01:33:16,060 --> 01:33:22,640
week bid award for the Swift Creek Pump Station Electrical Improvement Project, request for

1095
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:31,200
referral for further consideration from Planning and Zoning Board, update policy 143 rules and

1096
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:41,680
procedures for the Kerrytown Council, Salesforce licensee purchase for fiscal year 2027,

1097
01:33:45,180 --> 01:33:45,220
and

1098
01:33:45,220 --> 01:33:49,980
meeting schedule. Would council members like to pull any of these items for discussion?

1099
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:53,840
If not, I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda.

1100
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:54,800
So moved.

1101
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:55,960
Second.

1102
01:33:56,160 --> 01:33:59,420
There's a motion and a second discussion. All in favor please say aye.

1103
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:00,000
Aye.

1104
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:04,580
Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. And that takes us to public hearings.

1105
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:10,240
Same rules apply to public hearings that apply for public speaks out except speakers will

1106
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:12,640
We'll now have five minutes each for their comments.

1107
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:16,620
Our first and second item will be presented together,

1108
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:21,420
26A04, which is 719 Pitter-Sears Road annexation,

1109
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:27,400
and 26RA04, which is 719 Pitter-Sears Road rezoning.

1110
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:33,320
Principal planner Rachel Smith will introduce the item

1111
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,200
and council will not take action on this item tonight.

1112
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,180
It will be referred to our planning and zoning board

1113
01:34:39,180 --> 01:34:44,680
for their review and recommendation and return to council in a few months, Ms. Smith.

1114
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:51,460
Thank you. Good evening, council. This is a public hearing on a request to annex and

1115
01:34:51,460 --> 01:34:59,360
apply initial carry zoning to approximately 5.9 acres at 719 Pittered Sears Road. The

1116
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:04,380
property is not in carries extraterritorial jurisdiction, so concurrent annexation of

1117
01:35:04,380 --> 01:35:06,000
property is required with the rezoning.

1118
01:35:07,060 --> 01:35:14,040
Staff recommends that action on the proposed annexation, 26A04, be deferred until the rezoning

1119
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,040
returns to council for final decision.

1120
01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:23,770
The site is located in Chatham County on the south side of Pittertsiair's Road, approximately

1121
01:35:23,770 --> 01:35:26,310
a quarter mile east of the American Tobacco Trail.

1122
01:35:27,630 --> 01:35:32,730
The site is west of the Carolina Preserve at Amberley Neighborhood and is north and

1123
01:35:32,730 --> 01:35:35,550
east of property owned by the Army Corps of Engineers.

1124
01:35:38,690 --> 01:35:42,070
Kerry's GIS does not indicate stream buffer is located on the site.

1125
01:35:43,070 --> 01:35:47,870
Field determination of such features is required at the time of development plan review.

1126
01:35:51,100 --> 01:35:55,100
The Streetside Trail was recently constructed along the site's frontage on Pittertears

1127
01:35:55,100 --> 01:35:57,080
Road as part of a capital project.

1128
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:04,760
Pittertears Road is identified as a two-lane collector on Kerry's planned roadway widths

1129
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:05,040
map.

1130
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:12,260
The site is currently within Chatham County and is zoned to Chatham County Residential

1131
01:36:12,260 --> 01:36:19,010
One and the applicant proposes an initial carry zoning of Residential 12 Conditional

1132
01:36:19,010 --> 01:36:21,030
Use or R-12CU.

1133
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:29,480
The zoning conditions include limiting the development to a maximum of 11 detached dwellings.

1134
01:36:30,580 --> 01:36:36,020
Every home will have at least a 2 car garage wired for 60 amps to support EV charging

1135
01:36:36,020 --> 01:36:42,600
and the developer will dedicate right-of-way and improve Pitard Sears Road to all applicable standards.

1136
01:36:45,550 --> 01:36:51,750
A preliminary analysis against the Imagine Carry Community Plan found the policies from multiple chapters apply,

1137
01:36:52,110 --> 01:36:55,850
along with guidance from the Chatham Carry Joint Land Use Plan.

1138
01:36:57,210 --> 01:37:03,370
The Joint Plan generally recommends lower density moving from east to west towards Jordan Lake,

1139
01:37:03,370 --> 01:37:06,490
lake, supported by corresponding land use sub-areas.

1140
01:37:07,830 --> 01:37:13,930
The subject site is in the low-density residential sub-area, which recommends one to two gross

1141
01:37:13,930 --> 01:37:15,010
units per acre.

1142
01:37:17,540 --> 01:37:22,280
The proposed density of approximately 1.86 units per acre fits this guidance.

1143
01:37:25,130 --> 01:37:29,850
Surrounding low-density residential sub-area developments are under two dwellings per

1144
01:37:29,850 --> 01:37:35,270
acre with higher densities in the medium density sub-area, which includes the Carolina

1145
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:38,810
to preserve an amberly neighborhood to the east and to the south.

1146
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:44,950
The staff report provides further detail on the joint plan and the surrounding development

1147
01:37:44,950 --> 01:37:45,430
pattern.

1148
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:54,140
Policies within the live, shape, and enriched chapters of the Imagine Carry Community Plan

1149
01:37:54,140 --> 01:37:55,020
also apply.

1150
01:37:56,380 --> 01:38:01,540
We note that the area is largely surrounded by existing carry detached dwelling neighborhoods.

1151
01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:12,400
The proposed use, density, and lot size may support the live and shape chapter's policies on infill development and appropriate transitions.

1152
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:23,120
For the enriched chapter, the commitment to wiring garages for future electric vehicle charging may support policies on sustainable energy practices.

1153
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:30,800
In terms of move chapter policies, the proposed rezoning includes a commitment to dedicate

1154
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:35,620
right-of-way and to improve Pittered Sears Road to all applicable standards.

1155
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:42,140
However, the developer has declined to offer two additional commitments recommended by

1156
01:38:42,140 --> 01:38:48,960
staff that could help meet move chapter objectives for pedestrian safety, a prohibition

1157
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:54,880
on direct driveway access to Pitard Sears Road, which is a best practice for collector

1158
01:38:54,880 --> 01:39:01,060
streets, and the provision of sidewalks on both sides of subdivision streets.

1159
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:08,260
A neighborhood meeting was held in April, and 16 members of the public attended.

1160
01:39:09,380 --> 01:39:15,740
Questions and concerns were related to stormwater and drainage, perimeter buffers, tree clearing

1161
01:39:15,740 --> 01:39:21,320
and conservation, street connectivity and the proposed housing product and development details.

1162
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:27,000
There have been approximately a dozen inquiries since the notice of the neighborhood meeting

1163
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:32,500
and then the notice of this public hearing, including very similar questions and concerns

1164
01:39:32,990 --> 01:39:38,240
generally regarding the proposed density and lot sizes, the size and architecture of the proposed

1165
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:43,960
homes, stormwater connectivity and roadway improvements, preservation of trees, perimeter

1166
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:48,060
or buffers, and also the condition and maintenance of Pittered Sears Road.

1167
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:55,180
Notice of the public hearing was mailed to property owners with an 800 feet of the subject

1168
01:39:55,180 --> 01:39:55,680
site.

1169
01:39:56,040 --> 01:40:02,100
This exceeds the state and carries LDO requirements, and signs were posted on the site.

1170
01:40:05,170 --> 01:40:06,670
This concludes my presentation.

1171
01:40:07,490 --> 01:40:11,950
Andy Porter, the applicant's representative, is here to provide comments and following

1172
01:40:11,950 --> 01:40:14,430
the public hearing, I am available for your questions.

1173
01:40:14,430 --> 01:40:17,830
Thank you, Ms. Smith. I would invite the applicant forward at this time.

1174
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:39,780
Good evening, Mayor, members of Town Council. My name is Andy Porter. I'm vice president and a landscape architect with TMTLA Associates, a local landscape architecture and land planning firm in Durham.

1175
01:40:40,660 --> 01:40:49,040
Also here with me this evening in the gallery we have Lauren Hicks. She's a town of Cary resident. She's also with Dunhill Investors property owner.

1176
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:54,940
Thank you, Rachel, for the great overview, covering the basis of the request to annex

1177
01:40:54,940 --> 01:41:01,080
and apply tenecare initial zoning. I will keep my comments brief this evening. Rachel

1178
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:07,100
covered all the specifics, so I don't necessarily want to go over all that again. But I do

1179
01:41:07,100 --> 01:41:12,680
have a few quick points to recap. So the property is one existing parcel on the east

1180
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:18,940
side of Pittard Sears Road is approximately 5.9 acres in size. There are no existing homes

1181
01:41:18,940 --> 01:41:24,260
on the property. There are no existing wetlands or streams, which is unusual.

1182
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:27,080
The existing

1183
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:32,780
Chatham County zoning is R1, residential district one, and this is one of the last parcels

1184
01:41:32,780 --> 01:41:36,400
on Pittard Sears Road that has direct frontage on Pittard Sears Road.

1185
01:41:38,930 --> 01:41:39,950
As many of you may

1186
01:41:39,950 --> 01:41:44,610
be aware annexation and initial zoning was recently approved earlier this year

1187
01:41:44,610 --> 01:41:50,290
for the property directly north of pittered Sears Road. That property was

1188
01:41:50,290 --> 01:41:56,830
re-zoned for R8CU with a commitment of no more of 23 dwelling units. I

1189
01:41:56,830 --> 01:42:01,730
mentioned this for comparison of our current request. With annexation we're

1190
01:42:01,730 --> 01:42:07,830
requesting zoning of R12CU conditional use district. The R12 zoning

1191
01:42:07,830 --> 01:42:11,150
Everything requires a minimum of 12,000 square foot lot.

1192
01:42:12,770 --> 01:42:15,930
And I also want to mention Dunhill Investor is the property owner.

1193
01:42:16,350 --> 01:42:21,470
They are, they also develop the Dunhill subdivision that's on Pitterton's Road.

1194
01:42:21,670 --> 01:42:27,570
Many of you may be aware, the lots within Dunhill, the existing subdivision are 12,000

1195
01:42:27,570 --> 01:42:31,530
square foot plus or minus, so that subdivision is very comparable.

1196
01:42:32,490 --> 01:42:38,950
and we anticipate an equal housing product to be constructed should this get approved.

1197
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:45,210
We held neighborhood meeting on April 15th and we've worked with planning and transportation

1198
01:42:45,210 --> 01:42:46,970
staff on the current commitments.

1199
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:53,010
We look forward to work with staff and neighbors as we continue to move forward with the

1200
01:42:53,010 --> 01:42:58,510
annexation and rezoning process and we're happy to receive feedback from town council

1201
01:42:58,510 --> 01:42:59,350
and neighbors this evening.

1202
01:42:59,350 --> 01:43:00,190
Thank you.

1203
01:43:00,330 --> 01:43:01,470
I'm here for any questions.

1204
01:43:01,850 --> 01:43:02,430
Thank you.

1205
01:43:03,380 --> 01:43:08,910
So now is the time for the public hearing for the pittered seers rezoning and annexation

1206
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:14,050
and I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments and call on any registered

1207
01:43:14,050 --> 01:43:14,730
speakers.

1208
01:43:15,750 --> 01:43:21,250
We have no calling speakers, no registered speakers, and five written comments.

1209
01:43:22,380 --> 01:43:26,270
And they were provided to counsel at their seat on the agenda and emailed beforehand.

1210
01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:27,190
Thank you.

1211
01:43:27,190 --> 01:43:35,190
If you are here and would like to speak at this pitter-sears rezoning annexation now is your opportunity and I would invite you forward

1212
01:43:36,210 --> 01:43:38,630
Anyone to speak at this public hearing? Yes.

1213
01:43:46,310 --> 01:43:48,990
Could you move to your left, please? Thank you

1214
01:43:48,990 --> 01:43:54,270
I was one of the residents that got one of the notices and my home is located very close to this

1215
01:43:54,270 --> 01:44:00,330
My biggest question about this. Could you give us your name, please? Yes. That's okay. Sonali

1216
01:44:01,630 --> 01:44:04,290
So, Peter Sears Road is very narrow.

1217
01:44:04,730 --> 01:44:08,410
There's not much except for where you walk on as a pedestrian.

1218
01:44:09,910 --> 01:44:15,230
The area just below where this is being annexed is where the tobacco trail is.

1219
01:44:15,330 --> 01:44:20,550
There are a lot of pedestrians over there, and people cross those areas a lot.

1220
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:27,690
My biggest concern would be whether the developer is going to invest in limiting the amount

1221
01:44:27,690 --> 01:44:35,390
of traffic and making sure that pedestrians are safe in doing this type of, I know that

1222
01:44:35,390 --> 01:44:41,370
in doing just a little limited amount of research, the type of zoning change that's going to happen

1223
01:44:41,370 --> 01:44:43,830
makes it less restrictive for the developer.

1224
01:44:44,610 --> 01:44:48,670
And so my concern would be what is going to be done to protect pedestrians.

1225
01:44:48,890 --> 01:44:52,970
There's a lot of children that ride bikes in this area.

1226
01:44:53,610 --> 01:44:54,930
So that would be my comment.

1227
01:44:55,350 --> 01:44:55,990
Thank you.

1228
01:44:55,990 --> 01:44:59,230
Anyone else to speak at this public hearing?

1229
01:45:01,330 --> 01:45:06,210
Seeing no one, I'll close public hearing. Open it up to council members for questions or comments.

1230
01:45:06,830 --> 01:45:15,850
I have a couple, but I guess they're mostly questions. Can you speak a little bit more about the Army Corps of Engineers

1231
01:45:15,850 --> 01:45:19,490
and what can be built there, the land that's south of that?

1232
01:45:27,480 --> 01:45:28,340
Or maybe it's east.

1233
01:45:28,340 --> 01:45:29,220
So,

1234
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:40,000
shown in white, generally here is the Army Corps of Engineers property.

1235
01:45:40,340 --> 01:45:46,640
And I think that the floodplain map would actually illustrate this pretty well as well,

1236
01:45:53,250 --> 01:45:54,230
generally

1237
01:45:54,230 --> 01:45:54,670
in here.

1238
01:45:54,890 --> 01:45:59,530
So, you can see that this is floodplain in here, and then stream buffer running up

1239
01:45:59,530 --> 01:45:59,830
in here.

1240
01:45:59,970 --> 01:46:07,330
And so, that would typically not be a development parcel due to those environmental features.

1241
01:46:07,330 --> 01:46:22,710
So are there extra requirements for the developer for runoff, for, you know, obviously our stormwater laws already apply, but is there anything special that needs to be done because it abuts the Army Corps land?

1242
01:46:24,030 --> 01:46:36,410
So I was prepped by our stormwater staff for this potential question. So specifically it's not the Army Corps property in and of itself because it's owned by the Army Corps.

1243
01:46:36,410 --> 01:46:41,510
I think the reason they own it probably is related to the fact that it's watershed.

1244
01:46:42,210 --> 01:46:46,950
But the proposed future development, it's within the Jordan Lake watershed overlay.

1245
01:46:47,670 --> 01:46:52,790
So the development will be required to capture runoff with an on-site stormwater control

1246
01:46:52,790 --> 01:46:54,270
measure or SCM.

1247
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:57,830
That would also include all of the right-of-way improvements.

1248
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:03,350
There are also impervious limits established for the individual lots themselves.

1249
01:47:03,350 --> 01:47:05,770
This will be recorded on the PLAT.

1250
01:47:06,710 --> 01:47:10,470
It will depend a little bit on the size and type of the SCM.

1251
01:47:10,810 --> 01:47:16,870
And also, runoff control will be required for the 1, 2, 5, 10, and 100-year storms as well.

1252
01:47:17,770 --> 01:47:19,290
Does that help to answer your question?

1253
01:47:19,610 --> 01:47:20,250
That's it, yeah.

1254
01:47:20,450 --> 01:47:26,810
And we've received some complaints or concerns about the runoff that's currently happening up at our test.

1255
01:47:27,090 --> 01:47:28,550
Can you speak to that?

1256
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:31,650
Is there additional planning going on?

1257
01:47:31,650 --> 01:47:37,010
So I think you might be referring to a couple of written comments as well as a video that it was provided

1258
01:47:37,010 --> 01:47:38,850
I have shared that video and actually

1259
01:47:39,410 --> 01:47:41,210
watched it in real time with stormwater

1260
01:47:41,850 --> 01:47:44,930
Staff so the development plan reviewers who are

1261
01:47:44,930 --> 01:47:49,990
Responsible for reviewing any future developments such as this are aware of that video

1262
01:47:49,990 --> 01:47:56,030
And will take into account the information that was provided by the residents both in written and visual form

1263
01:47:56,610 --> 01:47:58,670
In their review. Thank you

1264
01:47:58,670 --> 01:48:00,290
Other questions concerns

1265
01:48:00,290 --> 01:48:08,290
I have a question. So I'm trying to look for that information on our town's website. I'm

1266
01:48:08,290 --> 01:48:16,570
not able to find it. It's related to 25RAZ 05 Peter 3, Spitter Sears Road zoning that

1267
01:48:16,570 --> 01:48:23,190
was approved about six months ago. And their project was very similar. It was all detached

1268
01:48:23,190 --> 01:48:26,370
I believe it was 4.7 acres.

1269
01:48:28,210 --> 01:48:33,990
I thought, and I see this on the map that you're showing right now on screen,

1270
01:48:34,130 --> 01:48:39,190
and I could be totally wrong, and it could be totally, you know, I'm phasing out right now.

1271
01:48:39,630 --> 01:48:46,170
But I thought it was R-12 CU that was approved.

1272
01:48:47,630 --> 01:48:53,630
So the request actually started for TRCU at the time of public hearing throughout the process.

1273
01:48:53,870 --> 01:48:58,570
It was revised to be R8CU, which you see on your screen.

1274
01:48:58,730 --> 01:49:04,830
It's this property here in the green hatching that R8CU was the approved zoning for that property.

1275
01:49:05,110 --> 01:49:15,610
Okay. And right next to it is a parcel that the builder at that time suggested that they will, they have purchased it and it will come back to the console.

1276
01:49:15,610 --> 01:49:21,750
they planned to allocate that property for a stormwater resolution, you know,

1277
01:49:21,770 --> 01:49:26,470
because at that time there was a lot of feedback related to stormwater. Is it

1278
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:32,690
possible that this applicant could work with that applicant and perhaps leverage

1279
01:49:32,690 --> 01:49:37,470
some of that? We can certainly provide contact information for both parties.

1280
01:49:37,850 --> 01:49:44,950
Okay. I don't have any more questions. Other questions, comments? I just wanted

1281
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:51,910
to urge the applicant to reconsider the two pedestrian safety recommendations by staff?

1282
01:49:53,010 --> 01:50:02,670
Actually I have questions on those. So would the applicant put sidewalks in on one side only

1283
01:50:02,670 --> 01:50:08,430
of the streets and the development? On local streets, carries regulations only require a

1284
01:50:08,430 --> 01:50:14,970
sidewalk on one side. Okay. And can you tell me are there driveway cuts

1285
01:50:14,970 --> 01:50:21,150
allowed in the recently approved, I believe it's the R8CU to the north, are there driveway

1286
01:50:21,150 --> 01:50:29,190
cuts allowed in the rezoning we approved or whatever the zoning is on the properties

1287
01:50:29,770 --> 01:50:38,410
near there? So I'm wondering how dissimilar it is for this property to be allowed to

1288
01:50:38,410 --> 01:50:40,510
have driveway cuts on that collector road

1289
01:50:40,510 --> 01:50:42,450
as opposed to the neighboring properties?

1290
01:50:42,970 --> 01:50:44,550
So I just confirmed with Erin

1291
01:50:44,550 --> 01:50:47,010
that there was no written zoning condition prohibiting

1292
01:50:47,010 --> 01:50:50,110
the collectors, the collectors as a collector

1293
01:50:50,110 --> 01:50:52,490
on both sides for both sides purposes.

1294
01:50:53,090 --> 01:50:55,630
However, typically it is a best practice.

1295
01:50:55,990 --> 01:51:00,450
We do, we have other regulations that tend to prohibit

1296
01:51:00,450 --> 01:51:03,910
direct driveway access to collectors, but it can happen.

1297
01:51:04,210 --> 01:51:05,790
It's not a direct prohibition,

1298
01:51:05,790 --> 01:51:09,190
but there are certain standards that discourage them.

1299
01:51:10,730 --> 01:51:11,290
Okay.

1300
01:51:12,750 --> 01:51:14,890
Can you dumb that down for me?

1301
01:51:15,730 --> 01:51:18,670
So they're technically allowed,

1302
01:51:19,070 --> 01:51:20,990
but there's probably other requirements

1303
01:51:20,990 --> 01:51:23,210
that make them exceptionally difficult to do?

1304
01:51:24,610 --> 01:51:25,750
Good evening, Councilor.

1305
01:51:25,770 --> 01:51:26,130
Thank you.

1306
01:51:26,370 --> 01:51:28,630
Yeah, so depending on the type of collector,

1307
01:51:29,110 --> 01:51:30,350
they are limited to the,

1308
01:51:31,050 --> 01:51:32,590
what your friend says, driveway cuts.

1309
01:51:33,330 --> 01:51:35,190
They are limited to the number of driveways

1310
01:51:35,190 --> 01:51:40,510
or street accesses onto the collector.

1311
01:51:41,130 --> 01:51:46,570
This is a NCDOT-owned road, and so they would have to get those permits through NCDOT.

1312
01:51:47,270 --> 01:51:54,170
And we have been working with both of the applicants to make sure that their driveways

1313
01:51:54,170 --> 01:51:55,490
align with one another.

1314
01:51:56,290 --> 01:52:01,490
If this was a carry-owned road, would we be able to prohibit this development if

1315
01:52:01,490 --> 01:52:04,270
it included driveway cuts onto that road?

1316
01:52:04,270 --> 01:52:06,570
So our SIM collector requirements would apply here.

1317
01:52:06,930 --> 01:52:07,170
Okay.

1318
01:52:07,290 --> 01:52:12,850
So the exception here is primarily because it's an NCDOT road and we can't regulate

1319
01:52:12,850 --> 01:52:16,010
driveway cuts on an NCDOT road in a project?

1320
01:52:16,230 --> 01:52:21,030
Well we can guide that and work with NCDOT on what the appropriate safety access should

1321
01:52:21,030 --> 01:52:26,290
be and we have our required standards which they would be required to meet unless in

1322
01:52:26,290 --> 01:52:32,190
this instance there may be limited access to a remaining lot that may not be able

1323
01:52:32,190 --> 01:52:34,530
to have internal connectivity,

1324
01:52:35,070 --> 01:52:37,230
which is the condition that staff had mentioned.

1325
01:52:37,710 --> 01:52:37,930
Okay.

1326
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:41,270
Thank you, I appreciate the clarity.

1327
01:52:41,930 --> 01:52:45,430
And I did want to just bring attention to the questions.

1328
01:52:45,770 --> 01:52:48,930
There's a, in the written comments that we received here,

1329
01:52:49,030 --> 01:52:51,010
particularly Mr. Sullivan and there's some others,

1330
01:52:51,470 --> 01:52:54,550
they're asking, I think, pretty reasonable questions

1331
01:52:55,110 --> 01:52:56,710
that they'd like some answers to.

1332
01:52:57,110 --> 01:52:58,950
I mean, again, obviously this is the public hearing.

1333
01:52:59,470 --> 01:53:01,890
This is the ideal time to answer those questions

1334
01:53:01,890 --> 01:53:06,790
And I don't know that all of these are, you know, when they ask about architectural requirements

1335
01:53:06,790 --> 01:53:07,350
of the home.

1336
01:53:07,830 --> 01:53:12,970
I think that's, you know, broadly part of our ordinances in general.

1337
01:53:14,030 --> 01:53:18,830
But, you know, a timeline for development, I know that's not something that's typically provided

1338
01:53:18,830 --> 01:53:19,270
to us.

1339
01:53:19,330 --> 01:53:22,930
But what about maximum and minimum size of the homes to be built?

1340
01:53:23,070 --> 01:53:28,110
Is there a minimum or maximum that's applied in a situation like this?

1341
01:53:28,110 --> 01:53:33,850
That's typically not something that we would regulate just lot size right we would regulate lot size correct

1342
01:53:33,850 --> 01:53:37,090
And I did respond to mr. Sullivan's email yesterday excellent

1343
01:53:37,090 --> 01:53:43,330
Okay, thank you, and that's all I had I just you know the the I've driven on that road the driveway cuts give me pause

1344
01:53:44,770 --> 01:53:47,370
That just seems like a really strange place

1345
01:53:48,070 --> 01:53:50,550
For a driveway it you know

1346
01:53:50,550 --> 01:53:55,290
It reminds me of probably some of the challenges people who have cuts on some of our other thoroughfares

1347
01:53:55,830 --> 01:54:01,870
You know like Maynard or Walnut where they probably wish they didn't or it was a different road when they built it

1348
01:54:01,870 --> 01:54:03,470
It was very different when they built it

1349
01:54:03,470 --> 01:54:07,590
But we know this is a collector and we know the traffic isn't going to reduce on that

1350
01:54:07,590 --> 01:54:12,470
I know councilmember Bonsol. You probably have a perspective on that as well

1351
01:54:12,470 --> 01:54:15,550
I just don't it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me

1352
01:54:15,550 --> 01:54:19,290
I agree with you and I think definitely some of these comments

1353
01:54:19,830 --> 01:54:21,890
Thank you for pointing that out. I totally

1354
01:54:21,890 --> 01:54:30,830
we faced out obviously clearly after the first section of our discussion, but there's another

1355
01:54:30,830 --> 01:54:34,890
question that's here about the buffer.

1356
01:54:37,270 --> 01:54:43,630
It's by Dennis Curtin. It's talking about tree

1357
01:54:43,630 --> 01:54:46,890
preservation, tree planning, construction protection,

1358
01:54:50,150 --> 01:54:52,810
and the buffer. Could you talk about the

1359
01:54:52,810 --> 01:54:58,810
buffer. I don't know if you covered that in this presentation. Sure. They mentioned about

1360
01:54:58,810 --> 01:55:06,490
30-foot buffer for privacy. Yes, so several of the comments you have received talk about

1361
01:55:06,490 --> 01:55:11,650
the Carolina Preserves buffer, so that's a 30-foot type A. Some of the emails said

1362
01:55:11,650 --> 01:55:16,030
type A, but it is a type A. I confirmed that. So they have an existing 30-foot

1363
01:55:16,030 --> 01:55:24,030
type A as well, they have a fence. The requirement adjacent to this property to be provided by

1364
01:55:24,550 --> 01:55:31,030
this developer would be a 20-foot type B, so that is not as high of a planting standard

1365
01:55:31,030 --> 01:55:35,210
as the type A. The type A is typically a little bit denser.

1366
01:55:35,690 --> 01:55:41,350
But the applicant could voluntarily do 20 feet of type A for a combined buffer of 50

1367
01:55:41,350 --> 01:55:49,250
feet of Taipei, which I think would probably go a long way with their neighbors to the east,

1368
01:55:49,430 --> 01:55:49,550
right?

1369
01:55:50,470 --> 01:55:50,890
They could.

1370
01:55:51,070 --> 01:55:51,430
They could.

1371
01:55:51,650 --> 01:55:52,510
They could do that.

1372
01:55:52,550 --> 01:55:53,050
They could offer that.

1373
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:56,840
Other comments?

1374
01:55:57,260 --> 01:56:02,220
That was, I had a similar comment, so thank you to my colleagues for beating me to it.

1375
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:06,520
It's just, I'm looking at the satellite map right now, and it looks like there's

1376
01:56:06,520 --> 01:56:12,820
considerable tree canopy to the south and west of the parcel, and as I encourage

1377
01:56:12,820 --> 01:56:17,680
every applicant being particularly mindful of preserving as much of that canopy as possible.

1378
01:56:17,940 --> 01:56:20,960
And so maybe some voluntary conditions could help address that.

1379
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:23,620
Any other questions?

1380
01:56:24,060 --> 01:56:24,680
One other.

1381
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:31,680
Is it possible to not have driveway cuts?

1382
01:56:31,820 --> 01:56:40,780
For instance, is there enough width of the property so that the applicant could do a single driveway cut into a neighborhood?

1383
01:56:40,780 --> 01:56:43,380
Or is the property just too narrow?

1384
01:56:43,820 --> 01:56:50,740
I'm trying to understand what the need for potentially 11, at the most, 11 driveway cuts for the 11 homes?

1385
01:56:51,660 --> 01:56:55,900
So I actually don't know that there would be room for 11 driveway cuts.

1386
01:56:56,060 --> 01:57:01,660
We don't have a lot layout at this time in the rezoning process that will be provided at Development Plan.

1387
01:57:03,980 --> 01:57:10,260
In my mind, I can see this laying out as a cul-de-sac street personally, but I don't have that knowledge.

1388
01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:18,540
So I think that would be very helpful if the developer could come back, especially before the Planning and Zoning Board,

1389
01:57:18,940 --> 01:57:26,700
if they could give the Planning and Zoning Board an idea of what that road, what that collector would look like.

1390
01:57:26,700 --> 01:57:28,160
How many cuts are we talking about?

1391
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:30,520
Are we talking about a single, like you said,

1392
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:32,900
called the Sac Street for those 11 homes?

1393
01:57:33,180 --> 01:57:36,480
I think it's really difficult to envision

1394
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:37,480
what that would look like.

1395
01:57:40,750 --> 01:57:41,710
Anything else?

1396
01:57:43,210 --> 01:57:46,250
Next step in this process is it will go to the Planning

1397
01:57:46,250 --> 01:57:48,970
and Zoning Board for their review and recommendation

1398
01:57:49,530 --> 01:57:51,890
and return to council in a few months.

1399
01:57:52,950 --> 01:57:56,310
Our next public hearing is going to be a long one.

1400
01:57:56,670 --> 01:57:58,050
So before we get started, I want

1401
01:57:58,050 --> 01:57:59,590
I'm going to take a very short bio break.

1402
01:58:00,630 --> 01:58:01,650
Jenny, on camera.

1403
01:58:03,410 --> 01:58:05,010
Did he say body break?

1404
02:06:03,570 --> 02:06:11,150
Meeting our council meeting at this time. Our next public hearing is for a resolution authority,

1405
02:06:11,670 --> 02:06:18,270
Raleigh Housing Authority, to acquire and preserve mixed income housing and carry. Director of

1406
02:06:18,270 --> 02:06:23,090
Planning and Community Development, Heather Willehan, will present the item, and council

1407
02:06:23,090 --> 02:06:27,970
may take action, Ms. Willehan. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Tonight is

1408
02:06:27,970 --> 02:06:32,230
a public hearing to consider adoption of a resolution authorizing the Raleigh Housing

1409
02:06:32,230 --> 02:06:37,570
Authorities to operate and carry for the purposes of acquiring and preserving the affordability

1410
02:06:37,570 --> 02:06:42,990
of 340 existing mixed income multi-family dwellings within the Amberwood and Lockmere

1411
02:06:42,990 --> 02:06:43,490
community.

1412
02:06:44,010 --> 02:06:47,830
The Raleigh Housing Authority has asked that we bring this request to you during their

1413
02:06:47,830 --> 02:06:51,750
contract due diligence period, so we are here tonight to present that request.

1414
02:06:52,830 --> 02:06:55,830
After the public hearing, Council may take action on this item.

1415
02:06:56,790 --> 02:07:00,110
First, I'm going to talk a little bit about procedures, since this is unusual for

1416
02:07:00,110 --> 02:07:03,490
us and then we'll specifically cover the request before you tonight.

1417
02:07:05,070 --> 02:07:09,270
The Raleigh Housing Authority is a government entity created under North Carolina General

1418
02:07:09,270 --> 02:07:12,950
Statutes Chapter 157 known as the Housing Authority Law.

1419
02:07:13,810 --> 02:07:17,490
The law authorizes housing authorities to serve low and moderate income residents

1420
02:07:17,490 --> 02:07:22,350
within adjacent municipalities but only if a community adopts a resolution authorizing

1421
02:07:22,350 --> 02:07:23,110
them to do so.

1422
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:29,900
Adopting a resolution authorizing a housing authority to operate is a technical requirement

1423
02:07:29,900 --> 02:07:35,560
and does not make council or carry a party to the acquisition or any related financing of the property.

1424
02:07:36,500 --> 02:07:40,360
Additionally, properties must be in compliance with all zoning and town ordinances.

1425
02:07:41,780 --> 02:07:47,720
Turning to Amberwood at Lockmere, this existing apartment complex was originally developed in two phases.

1426
02:07:48,220 --> 02:07:51,760
The first phase in 1991 and the second in 1996.

1427
02:07:52,400 --> 02:07:57,400
It offers one, two, and three-bedroom garden-style apartments with a total of 340 units.

1428
02:07:58,680 --> 02:08:03,280
It's located at the intersection of Southeast Kerry Parkway and Piney Plains Road, about

1429
02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:09,300
one mile southwest of the Destination Center at Crossroads and one mile east of the Destination

1430
02:08:09,300 --> 02:08:11,700
Center at Kildare Farm Road and Trion Road.

1431
02:08:14,930 --> 02:08:20,150
Amberwood is a part of the Lochmere community and is 96% occupied, so home to about 314

1432
02:08:20,570 --> 02:08:21,210
Kerry households.

1433
02:08:22,230 --> 02:08:27,930
Amberwood is considered naturally occurring affordable housing, or NOAA, meaning that

1434
02:08:27,930 --> 02:08:32,530
But it is an unsubsidized, unrestricted property offering below-market rents.

1435
02:08:33,290 --> 02:08:37,910
It currently rents at rates affordable to households earning approximately 52 percent

1436
02:08:37,910 --> 02:08:44,570
of the Raleigh Carry Area Median Income, or AMI, which is about $57,000, with an average

1437
02:08:44,570 --> 02:08:46,230
rent of $1510.

1438
02:08:47,230 --> 02:08:53,030
This type of below-market, unrestricted residential property often serves as a community's largest

1439
02:08:53,030 --> 02:08:54,350
supply of affordable housing.

1440
02:08:54,350 --> 02:08:54,470
housing.

1441
02:08:56,600 --> 02:09:01,960
And properties like this represent important affordable housing in Cary. In markets

1442
02:09:01,960 --> 02:09:07,980
like ours where comparable rents are higher, a property is considered to have rent-headroom.

1443
02:09:09,660 --> 02:09:15,140
Amberwood is being marketed with the value proposition that it has $200 to $300 in rent-headroom.

1444
02:09:18,120 --> 02:09:22,460
It's impossible to predict every potential scenario, but two outcomes that properties

1445
02:09:22,460 --> 02:09:27,180
companies like this often face and often face in a profit-motivated market bar.

1446
02:09:28,380 --> 02:09:35,220
First, a private investor acquires the property, invests in renovations and increases rents,

1447
02:09:35,280 --> 02:09:39,900
potentially pricing out existing residents, and permanently removing affordable housing

1448
02:09:39,900 --> 02:09:42,060
units from the community's supply.

1449
02:09:42,820 --> 02:09:48,280
Or two, the property declines through deferred maintenance as an owner realizes gains

1450
02:09:48,280 --> 02:09:52,620
without reinvesting, resulting in substandard conditions and property

1451
02:09:52,620 --> 02:09:58,380
value decline. Alternatively, if an entity committed to affordability such as a

1452
02:09:58,380 --> 02:10:03,280
nonprofit, a government agency or a subsidized private owner recapitalizes

1453
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:07,380
the property, rents remain affordable to low- and moderate-income households

1454
02:10:07,380 --> 02:10:11,500
while the property is maintained to continue offering a high quality of life

1455
02:10:11,500 --> 02:10:16,160
and stability to residents. This is important because the residents of

1456
02:10:16,160 --> 02:10:19,400
Amberwoods are critical members of our community.

1457
02:10:22,240 --> 02:10:24,000
The Raleigh Housing Authority has proposed

1458
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:29,620
the following. That all 340 units will remain affordable for low- and moderate-income households

1459
02:10:29,620 --> 02:10:37,580
or 80% of AMI, with at least 51% of the units as affordable for low-income households

1460
02:10:37,580 --> 02:10:45,040
or 60% of AMI, with a maximum of 10% of the units potentially supported by project-based

1461
02:10:45,040 --> 02:10:50,920
about your subsidy. They're also committed to minimizing rent increases over time to

1462
02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:55,760
avoid displacing existing carry residents, as well as addressing deferred maintenance

1463
02:10:55,760 --> 02:11:00,440
and investing in renovations of units as they naturally turn over.

1464
02:11:03,090 --> 02:11:03,950
The assessed value

1465
02:11:03,950 --> 02:11:13,310
of Amberwood out lock mirror is $64,485,515 with the 2027 carry municipal property tax

1466
02:11:13,310 --> 02:11:22,670
of $236,984. While there are currently property tax exemption avenues that any owner could

1467
02:11:22,670 --> 02:11:28,290
pursue, this resolution would allow RHA tax exemption through the Housing Authority statute.

1468
02:11:33,680 --> 02:11:38,980
This is an important distinction because RHA's operating status is clearly defined under state

1469
02:11:38,980 --> 02:11:44,860
law, whereas recently publicized charitable housing loophole could be available to any

1470
02:11:44,860 --> 02:11:47,840
property owner, regardless of affordability commitments.

1471
02:11:51,330 --> 02:11:55,570
You have heard us say that partnerships are at the heart of Cary's community plan and

1472
02:11:55,570 --> 02:11:56,350
housing strategy.

1473
02:11:57,230 --> 02:12:02,410
This proposal leverages a regional public partnership and furthers several Imagine

1474
02:12:02,410 --> 02:12:08,030
Cary community plan live policies and Cary plan housing goals, including maintaining

1475
02:12:08,030 --> 02:12:13,690
neighborhood character, encouraging the provision of affordable dwellings, pursuing

1476
02:12:13,690 --> 02:12:18,650
regional and non-profit partnerships to meet housing needs and ensuring that all

1477
02:12:18,650 --> 02:12:22,930
carry residents can enjoy the full benefit of Kerry's high quality of life.

1478
02:12:24,910 --> 02:12:29,810
Please please. This concludes my presentation. A representative from the

1479
02:12:29,810 --> 02:12:33,970
Raleigh Raleigh Housing Authority is here to address this request and

1480
02:12:33,970 --> 02:12:36,830
following the public hearing I'm available to answer any questions you

1481
02:12:36,830 --> 02:12:38,150
may have. Thank you Ms. Wheeling.

1482
02:12:42,280 --> 02:12:46,520
Good evening. Mayor and members of the

1483
02:12:46,520 --> 02:12:57,700
Town Council and citizens of Cary. My name is Ashley Lawmush Johnson. I am the CEO of

1484
02:12:57,700 --> 02:13:02,260
the Raleigh Housing Authority. I'm going to just talk a little bit about the Housing Authority

1485
02:13:03,020 --> 02:13:12,440
and about what our intentions are. I think Heather gave a really good presentation and

1486
02:13:12,440 --> 02:13:15,320
explanation for what we are trying to do.

1487
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:24,580
As the staff person said, the Raleigh Housing

1488
02:13:24,580 --> 02:13:32,100
Authority is required by state law to request authorization for this acquisition and that's

1489
02:13:32,100 --> 02:13:33,400
why we are here.

1490
02:13:36,730 --> 02:13:43,210
The Raleigh Housing Authority has served Wake County residents for decades.

1491
02:13:43,210 --> 02:13:51,330
We, all of our programs, the Section 8 program, public housing program, and other housing programs,

1492
02:13:51,850 --> 02:13:58,090
non-subsidized programs, have a preference for residents of all of Wake County.

1493
02:13:58,370 --> 02:14:06,690
So we have served and we currently serve households throughout the county, from without the county,

1494
02:14:07,090 --> 02:14:10,770
and also within the city limits of Cary.

1495
02:14:10,770 --> 02:14:22,330
We have over 400 CARE residents on our waiting list and we serve 211 households in CARE through

1496
02:14:22,330 --> 02:14:24,290
the Section 8 voucher program.

1497
02:14:25,430 --> 02:14:34,830
The Housing Authority has a strategic plan adopted in 2024 that includes developing

1498
02:14:35,870 --> 02:14:44,030
redeveloping our properties into mixed-income housing units, but also to acquire, through

1499
02:14:44,030 --> 02:14:51,070
acquisition, acquire properties so that we can preserve the naturally-occurring affordable

1500
02:14:51,070 --> 02:14:51,670
housing.

1501
02:14:52,510 --> 02:14:58,170
The folks who live in these properties are people who work, who are teachers.

1502
02:15:00,270 --> 02:15:11,810
Childcare workers and other essential workers who work in Cary. And we want to make sure that

1503
02:15:11,810 --> 02:15:18,870
those people who are living there now will continue to be able to live there through the Housing

1504
02:15:18,870 --> 02:15:27,390
Authority's efforts. The Raleigh Housing Authority is not completely unique, but of over 3,000

1505
02:15:27,390 --> 02:15:36,290
housing authorities in the United States. We are one of less than 1% of the housing authorities

1506
02:15:36,850 --> 02:15:45,410
in the nation that has a standard and poor's credit rating of A plus, not AAA like the city

1507
02:15:45,410 --> 02:15:51,670
of Kerry or Raleigh. But this allows us to do things that we haven't been able to do

1508
02:15:51,670 --> 02:15:59,430
in the past and that many cities can't do, we are able to invest in nationally occurring

1509
02:15:59,430 --> 02:16:09,390
affordable housing to save those properties and preserve them for use by folks who now

1510
02:16:09,390 --> 02:16:10,110
live in them.

1511
02:16:10,670 --> 02:16:12,810
And that is what we intend to do.

1512
02:16:13,610 --> 02:16:22,110
And we are here to keep Amber Woods in the way it is now in the people that it serves.

1513
02:16:25,150 --> 02:16:26,530
Nothing will change.

1514
02:16:29,490 --> 02:16:32,730
Please, please, or almost nothing.

1515
02:16:34,030 --> 02:16:35,830
The rents will stay the same.

1516
02:16:36,570 --> 02:16:38,270
The lease will stay the same.

1517
02:16:38,850 --> 02:16:41,270
The management company will stay the same.

1518
02:16:41,590 --> 02:16:45,230
The feel of living there will stay the same.

1519
02:16:47,630 --> 02:16:55,010
please allow us to hear the speaker thank you what what may change is the fact

1520
02:16:55,010 --> 02:17:00,830
that we will have and we'll be able to have the resources to address the deferred

1521
02:17:00,830 --> 02:17:06,350
maintenance and improve the property above the conditions that there are

1522
02:17:06,350 --> 02:17:07,090
there now

1523
02:17:11,120 --> 02:17:15,660
so I will end my remarks there and if there are questions I

1524
02:17:15,660 --> 02:17:19,480
I will entertain them, or my colleague,

1525
02:17:20,740 --> 02:17:24,180
our directive acquisitions and strategic partnerships,

1526
02:17:24,580 --> 02:17:27,760
Jason Morrow will assist with some of the...

1527
02:17:27,760 --> 02:17:29,860
And our process is to hold the public hearing

1528
02:17:29,860 --> 02:17:32,120
if we have questions for you after the public hearing.

1529
02:17:32,500 --> 02:17:33,540
Okay, thank you.

1530
02:17:34,520 --> 02:17:36,280
So now is the time for the public hearing.

1531
02:17:36,420 --> 02:17:38,880
I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments.

1532
02:17:39,100 --> 02:17:40,620
Call on any registered speakers.

1533
02:17:42,220 --> 02:17:42,740
Yes.

1534
02:17:42,740 --> 02:17:50,000
Yes. We are going to first start with the speaker that's on the line, Cassie Holt.

1535
02:17:50,380 --> 02:17:51,120
Cassie, if you can...

1536
02:17:51,120 --> 02:17:52,400
Are you not going to do written comments?

1537
02:17:52,840 --> 02:17:54,840
Yes. They didn't give me the total, so I need a total.

1538
02:17:55,500 --> 02:17:55,900
Go ahead.

1539
02:17:55,980 --> 02:17:56,280
Real quick.

1540
02:17:56,460 --> 02:17:56,660
Sorry.

1541
02:17:56,840 --> 02:18:02,660
So we'll let Cassie go first. He's on the line. And then we'll do the written comments

1542
02:18:02,660 --> 02:18:03,540
in the in-person speakers.

1543
02:18:03,580 --> 02:18:04,320
Okay. Very good.

1544
02:18:04,840 --> 02:18:07,940
Cassie, will you confirm that you can hear us and give your name?

1545
02:18:09,280 --> 02:18:17,180
Yes. Good evening. My name is Kathy Holtz. I'm a resident of Lochmere. I've had the

1546
02:18:17,180 --> 02:18:23,320
privilege of growing up in Cary, having attended Davis Drive Elementary, Westlake Middle School,

1547
02:18:23,460 --> 02:18:28,400
and Middle Creek High School. I moved away from Cary for college and law school,

1548
02:18:28,700 --> 02:18:34,580
but after living in Raleigh, decided to purchase my first single-family home in

1549
02:18:34,580 --> 02:18:41,320
Lockmere earlier this year. I've worked extremely hard and extremely proud of

1550
02:18:41,320 --> 02:18:46,320
this achievement. However, the proposed resolution regarding Raleigh Housing

1551
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:50,560
Authority's purchase of Amberwood at Lockmere is concerning to me on many

1552
02:18:50,560 --> 02:18:50,900
levels.

1553
02:18:54,140 --> 02:18:59,300
First, the proposed RHA resolution locked carry residents into a

1554
02:18:59,300 --> 02:19:03,980
30-year commitment that helps the city of Raleigh to the detriment of the

1555
02:19:03,980 --> 02:19:04,640
town of Cary.

1556
02:19:05,900 --> 02:19:09,780
All current RHA developments are within Raleigh,

1557
02:19:10,560 --> 02:19:14,320
which makes sense because RHA's board of commissioners

1558
02:19:14,320 --> 02:19:16,280
are appointed by the Raleigh mayor.

1559
02:19:17,530 --> 02:19:20,700
A quick review of RHA's website shows

1560
02:19:21,030 --> 02:19:23,860
that the organization's goal is to help residents

1561
02:19:23,860 --> 02:19:25,460
of the city of Raleigh.

1562
02:19:26,590 --> 02:19:29,990
Unlike Raleigh residents who can hold the mayor of Raleigh

1563
02:19:29,990 --> 02:19:33,590
accountable for her appointments to the RHA board,

1564
02:19:33,930 --> 02:19:36,350
the town of Kerry and residents of Kerry

1565
02:19:36,350 --> 02:19:39,270
have no such appointment power to ensure

1566
02:19:39,270 --> 02:19:42,830
that the town's interests are represented in RHA's decision.

1567
02:19:45,350 --> 02:19:52,950
Having recently moved to Kerry from a property that

1568
02:19:52,950 --> 02:19:56,270
was adjacent to RHA development, I

1569
02:19:56,270 --> 02:20:00,270
can confirm that this decision will affect property values

1570
02:20:00,270 --> 02:20:02,870
and resell abilities of homes in this area.

1571
02:20:05,900 --> 02:20:08,420
Recently trying to sell a town home,

1572
02:20:08,500 --> 02:20:10,780
I had several out-of-state buyers interested

1573
02:20:10,780 --> 02:20:13,660
in purchasing the property until they found out

1574
02:20:13,660 --> 02:20:16,580
that there was a RHA development across the street.

1575
02:20:18,140 --> 02:20:21,140
Lastly, I want to conclude with urging this council

1576
02:20:21,140 --> 02:20:24,660
to take a moment to seriously consider the circumstances

1577
02:20:24,660 --> 02:20:26,560
surrounding this resolution.

1578
02:20:27,480 --> 02:20:29,400
A lot of things have happened recently.

1579
02:20:29,400 --> 02:20:36,880
the State Auditor's Office, the findings from Womblebond Dickinson regarding serious operational

1580
02:20:36,880 --> 02:20:39,320
failures and lack of transparency.

1581
02:20:41,250 --> 02:20:48,080
It was very concerning to me that I could not find information regarding this RHA resolution

1582
02:20:48,080 --> 02:20:50,000
on the town of Terry website.

1583
02:20:51,670 --> 02:20:56,640
It is unclear whether there have been studies or whether anything has been done to consider

1584
02:20:56,640 --> 02:21:01,760
the property values of residents living in this highly residential area.

1585
02:21:02,840 --> 02:21:09,680
And with undermined confidence in the completeness and reliability of the information provided

1586
02:21:10,040 --> 02:21:17,240
by this council, I urge the council to, at a minimum, pause, take a moment, and delay

1587
02:21:17,240 --> 02:21:21,540
the vote to ensure that such a major decision is not rushed.

1588
02:21:22,700 --> 02:21:25,000
The timing, the optics,

1589
02:21:27,570 --> 02:21:34,030
the lack of information could not be more suspect and I urge the council

1590
02:21:34,030 --> 02:21:40,790
to vote no or a minimum delay this vote so that further due diligence can be made.

1591
02:21:40,910 --> 02:21:41,310
Thank you.

1592
02:21:47,800 --> 02:21:50,160
We had 144 written comments.

1593
02:21:51,340 --> 02:21:57,920
They were provided to the council beforehand through email at your desk tonight and

1594
02:21:57,920 --> 02:22:02,880
also online. And then we'll go to our in-person speakers and start with the

1595
02:22:02,880 --> 02:22:06,280
people who signed up for public speaks out first. So I want to start with Nancy

1596
02:22:06,280 --> 02:22:07,700
Kaye followed by Linda Shaw.

1597
02:22:16,090 --> 02:22:20,930
I am not a professional public speaker. I am nervous.

1598
02:22:21,650 --> 02:22:28,110
So if you can bear with me, I'd appreciate it. So good evening. My name is

1599
02:22:28,110 --> 02:22:34,130
Nancy Joyner Kaye and I live at 105 Ashwin Court. I want you to know that

1600
02:22:34,130 --> 02:22:42,710
I love the town of Cary, and I am excited about the mixed income housing that includes

1601
02:22:42,710 --> 02:22:52,710
market rate housing that is currently under consideration under the Imagine Cary plan.

1602
02:22:54,920 --> 02:23:01,100
I'm excited that a lot of these projects are public and privately financed.

1603
02:23:02,010 --> 02:23:04,660
You couldn't ask for a better mix.

1604
02:23:04,660 --> 02:23:11,700
You have low income housing. You have market rate housing on the same site.

1605
02:23:12,120 --> 02:23:17,040
You have a community coming together, private and public, to finance it.

1606
02:23:17,740 --> 02:23:23,040
This is the ideal model for housing options.

1607
02:23:24,220 --> 02:23:29,760
But tonight I would like to address the tax exemption requested by Raleigh,

1608
02:23:29,940 --> 02:23:31,460
by the Raleigh Housing Authority.

1609
02:23:31,460 --> 02:23:41,240
Authority. Staff stated that private ownership brings either higher rents or deferred maintenance

1610
02:23:41,760 --> 02:23:50,750
and that the Raleigh Housing Authority ownership prevents both. Specifically, for Amberwood,

1611
02:23:51,230 --> 02:24:00,300
the deferred maintenance claim is simply not true, okay, and you need to listen. Amberwood

1612
02:24:00,300 --> 02:24:08,800
sits inside a Lockmere Homeowners' Association, subject to the same architectural and landscaping

1613
02:24:08,800 --> 02:24:17,760
covenants as every Lockmere home. For a private owner, private, those covenants have teeth.

1614
02:24:19,060 --> 02:24:26,900
Unresolved violations bring fines, and fines become liens. Deferred maintenance is not

1615
02:24:26,900 --> 02:24:34,760
Not an option, which is why this apartment complex looks so awesome despite the fact

1616
02:24:34,760 --> 02:24:36,360
that it is 35 years old.

1617
02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:48,140
Since 1991, through every owner, Aberwood has met Lockmere's standards because the covenants

1618
02:24:48,140 --> 02:24:50,820
run with the deed.

1619
02:24:51,100 --> 02:24:52,740
You need to understand what that means.

1620
02:24:52,740 --> 02:24:58,540
It runs with the deed, and it binds any private owner.

1621
02:24:59,560 --> 02:25:03,320
They would not bind the Raleigh Housing Authority.

1622
02:25:04,640 --> 02:25:11,100
Now consider the Raleigh Housing Authority created by Raleigh in 1938.

1623
02:25:11,860 --> 02:25:14,620
It is controlled by Raleigh.

1624
02:25:15,060 --> 02:25:21,720
All nine commissioners appointed by the Raleigh Mayor.

1625
02:25:21,720 --> 02:25:27,360
The Raleigh Mayor, not the Raleigh City Council. They're appointed specifically by the Raleigh

1626
02:25:27,360 --> 02:25:35,540
Mayor. Like Cary, it is a municipal corporation with immunity.

1627
02:25:38,870 --> 02:25:41,570
Let that sink in. I shall repeat

1628
02:25:41,570 --> 02:25:49,330
it. It is a municipal corporation like Cary with immunity. North Carolina says plainly

1629
02:25:49,330 --> 02:25:55,430
that no judgment against it can become a lien on its property.

1630
02:25:56,270 --> 02:26:02,830
This tax exemption is the first step toward the Raleigh Housing Authority

1631
02:26:02,830 --> 02:26:09,010
operating as a housing authority inside Cary.

1632
02:26:14,690 --> 02:26:23,190
If you approved this tax exemption, you would essentially be creating a town within a town.

1633
02:26:24,330 --> 02:26:29,470
One, that covenants and carry ordinances, they cannot touch them,

1634
02:26:31,550 --> 02:26:32,710
and you need to be mindful

1635
02:26:32,710 --> 02:26:33,230
of that.

1636
02:26:34,670 --> 02:26:42,810
By staff's own admission, margins, your staff, would be thin once this converts to low and

1637
02:26:42,810 --> 02:26:44,050
moderate income housing.

1638
02:26:44,050 --> 02:26:52,750
With capped rents, when costs rise, maintenance is the only place that gives.

1639
02:26:54,690 --> 02:26:56,210
That's the only place they can cut.

1640
02:26:57,410 --> 02:27:06,110
An owner immune to Lockmere's covenants and the town of carry ordinances could remove

1641
02:27:06,110 --> 02:27:11,450
the landscaping and features that are costliest to maintain.

1642
02:27:11,450 --> 02:27:14,190
A change the appearance of the buildings.

1643
02:27:15,930 --> 02:27:18,410
Change the level of maintenance of the buildings.

1644
02:27:19,010 --> 02:27:21,110
With little consequence.

1645
02:27:21,730 --> 02:27:22,930
Please, let me finish.

1646
02:27:23,270 --> 02:27:23,910
One more sentence.

1647
02:27:24,570 --> 02:27:29,290
I'm speaking slowly so you understand.

1648
02:27:29,930 --> 02:27:36,410
Even the mayor has publicly voiced concerns about long-term maintenance under the RHA.

1649
02:27:37,130 --> 02:27:39,670
Staff and the mayor agree, sir,

1650
02:27:39,670 --> 02:27:46,750
that ambrose is naturally occurring affordable housing, 35 years old and in excellent condition

1651
02:27:46,750 --> 02:27:53,250
with updated interiors to pools, club houses, dog parts, et cetera, but under R.H. control

1652
02:27:53,250 --> 02:28:01,890
49% of the units would eventually go to Raleigh residents and current residents above the

1653
02:28:01,890 --> 02:28:06,750
income level currently living there would not be able to renew their lease.

1654
02:28:06,750 --> 02:28:13,030
carry residents would be displaced from one of our few affordable communities.

1655
02:28:13,950 --> 02:28:17,910
In the end, this tax exemption is unnecessary.

1656
02:28:18,850 --> 02:28:24,030
The housing is already affordable and the covenants already keep it well maintained.

1657
02:28:24,710 --> 02:28:30,250
Granting it, cheats carry out of $6.5 million over 30 years

1658
02:28:30,250 --> 02:28:35,130
and the county out of $8.5 million also over 38.

1659
02:28:35,130 --> 02:28:42,990
Well, just a minute, puts a town, just a minute, I've never been here, I've never been here.

1660
02:28:43,130 --> 02:28:45,250
It puts a town inside our town.

1661
02:28:45,770 --> 02:28:49,430
It displaces Cary residents in favor of Raleigh residents.

1662
02:28:50,290 --> 02:28:59,770
I am asking you to show up, I am asking you to show up for the Cary residents and let

1663
02:28:59,770 --> 02:29:09,750
the RHA address its housing needs not in the town of Kerry. You owe your allegiance, you

1664
02:29:09,750 --> 02:29:15,670
owe your allegiance to the taxpayers and residents of the town of Kerry.

1665
02:29:15,830 --> 02:29:16,250
Ms. Kay.

1666
02:29:16,570 --> 02:29:17,910
If you, I have one more sentence.

1667
02:29:18,390 --> 02:29:19,710
I've let you go over for two years.

1668
02:29:19,710 --> 02:29:23,130
If you cannot bring yourself to vote this down today.

1669
02:29:23,650 --> 02:29:25,810
Ladies and gentlemen, please.

1670
02:29:25,810 --> 02:29:31,490
I ask that you take, that you table the vote for further study.

1671
02:29:31,990 --> 02:29:33,890
We have had very little notice.

1672
02:29:34,010 --> 02:29:34,290
Thank you.

1673
02:29:34,330 --> 02:29:34,970
13 days.

1674
02:29:35,310 --> 02:29:35,590
Thank you.

1675
02:29:35,610 --> 02:29:37,450
Please, please listen.

1676
02:29:38,390 --> 02:29:38,770
Thank you.

1677
02:29:45,910 --> 02:29:47,250
Speaker is Linda Shaw.

1678
02:29:49,230 --> 02:29:50,110
Ms. Shaw.

1679
02:29:50,810 --> 02:29:51,390
Our next.

1680
02:29:51,510 --> 02:29:52,630
Ms. Shaw, you're next.

1681
02:29:53,270 --> 02:29:54,530
Followed by Elaina Morgan.

1682
02:29:55,650 --> 02:29:58,190
I would ask, please stick to the five minute time rule.

1683
02:29:58,310 --> 02:29:59,830
We have a long night ahead of us.

1684
02:30:00,140 --> 02:30:00,560
Please.

1685
02:30:18,490 --> 02:30:19,130
Good

1686
02:30:24,280 --> 02:30:30,460
evening, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Weinbrecht and Kerrytown Council. Thank you for letting me speak.

1687
02:30:30,460 --> 02:30:40,600
My name is Lynn Shaw, and I live in Cary, been a resident since 1995, been resident of Washington since 2001.

1688
02:30:41,320 --> 02:30:47,560
I am speaking on my own behalf. Okay, this is my own personal opinion, okay.

1689
02:30:48,300 --> 02:30:58,560
And I do have a couple ideas. I am asking the Town of Cary Town Council to vote no on the resolution to allow Raleigh Housing Authority to operate in Cary

1690
02:30:58,560 --> 02:31:00,900
and acquire Amberwood Apartments at Lockmere.

1691
02:31:01,160 --> 02:31:03,500
Amberwood Apartments is already renting

1692
02:31:03,500 --> 02:31:06,820
is naturally occurring affordable housing, known as NOAA.

1693
02:31:07,320 --> 02:31:11,700
NOAA is a subset of unsubsidized, not subsidized,

1694
02:31:11,720 --> 02:31:14,640
housing that remains cheaper because of specific traits.

1695
02:31:15,460 --> 02:31:18,480
Amberwood at Lockmere is within the Lockmere Association

1696
02:31:19,060 --> 02:31:21,180
and it does have to buy the Lockmere

1697
02:31:21,180 --> 02:31:23,200
architectural standards and specifications

1698
02:31:23,800 --> 02:31:24,920
just like me and residents.

1699
02:31:25,780 --> 02:31:33,080
I am asking the Town of Cary Town Council and Planning Department to not allow a potential

1700
02:31:33,080 --> 02:31:36,300
loss of the Cary tax revenue to Raleigh Housing Authority.

1701
02:31:36,960 --> 02:31:43,580
Instead, please reallocate the hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of Cary

1702
02:31:43,580 --> 02:31:49,980
tax revenue dollars to developing a veterans village on the site of the Epic Games property

1703
02:31:49,980 --> 02:31:52,260
formerly known as the Curytown Center,

1704
02:31:52,720 --> 02:31:55,660
properties that are still undeveloped.

1705
02:31:57,020 --> 02:31:58,920
An article published in the American Legion

1706
02:31:58,920 --> 02:32:02,420
on June 23rd, 2026 reports that there are over

1707
02:32:02,420 --> 02:32:04,600
32,000 homeless veterans.

1708
02:32:05,260 --> 02:32:08,900
The Charlotte Today published on July 16th, 2026.

1709
02:32:09,640 --> 02:32:12,980
Tunnel to Towers, excuse me, I got a cold, foundation.

1710
02:32:13,700 --> 02:32:16,240
The Tunnel to Towers Foundation has begun construction

1711
02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:18,840
on a new veterans village that will provide

1712
02:32:18,840 --> 02:32:24,320
not only stable housing, but also comprehensive support services designed to help service

1713
02:32:24,320 --> 02:32:31,120
members rebuild their lives. The town of Cary could seek a partnership with Epic Games and

1714
02:32:31,120 --> 02:32:38,100
Tunnel to Towers and the HUD VASH, that's V-A-S-H, to build a veterans village. Part

1715
02:32:38,100 --> 02:32:42,060
of the partnership deal could allow for a part of the parcel to be developed for

1716
02:32:42,060 --> 02:32:49,240
epic games, corporate office space. I don't know, maybe you could call it epic 10 veterans

1717
02:32:49,240 --> 02:32:55,500
village, you know. And what the veterans village is, the foundation builds transitional and

1718
02:32:55,500 --> 02:33:00,460
permanent housing communities across the United States, featuring on-site supportive

1719
02:33:00,460 --> 02:33:05,340
medical and mental health services. The Tunnel to Towers Foundation operates a dedicated

1720
02:33:05,340 --> 02:33:10,280
HUD BASH services team that collaborates with the United States Department of Veterans

1721
02:33:10,280 --> 02:33:14,140
of Fair, Department of HUD, and the local public housing

1722
02:33:14,140 --> 02:33:15,700
authorities to help homeless veterans

1723
02:33:15,700 --> 02:33:17,000
secure permanent housing.

1724
02:33:17,760 --> 02:33:21,220
This project could align with the Town of Kerry 2040

1725
02:33:21,220 --> 02:33:22,460
Imagine Plan.

1726
02:33:23,660 --> 02:33:26,140
So once again, I am asking the Town of Kerry

1727
02:33:26,140 --> 02:33:29,200
Town Council to vote no on the resolution

1728
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:31,120
to allow the Raleigh Housing Authority

1729
02:33:31,120 --> 02:33:32,180
to operate in Kerry.

1730
02:33:32,720 --> 02:33:34,160
And thanks so much for listening.

1731
02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:43,640
Our next speaker is Alina Morgan followed by Thomas

1732
02:33:43,640 --> 02:33:44,180
Kelliner.

1733
02:33:44,180 --> 02:33:45,140
Good

1734
02:33:51,480 --> 02:33:56,060
evening. My name is Dr. Elena Morgan and I live across from the Amberwood

1735
02:33:56,060 --> 02:34:03,840
apartment buildings in Lochmere. I am here tonight to strongly oppose the sale

1736
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:09,180
of the property to the Raleigh Housing Authority. Before I get into the

1737
02:34:09,180 --> 02:34:14,020
specifics of what I want to say, I'd like to take a moment and say the optics

1738
02:34:14,020 --> 02:34:18,320
of this situation are catastrophic for all of you individually.

1739
02:34:19,340 --> 02:34:27,340
If I were to bill my patients and Medicare, who is who I bill for my services,

1740
02:34:30,080 --> 02:34:35,860
$24 million in excess of the services I had provided to my patients,

1741
02:34:36,180 --> 02:34:39,540
I would lose my license, and I would go to jail.

1742
02:34:39,540 --> 02:34:46,380
I would be on the front cover of every newspaper in this country as a villainous physician.

1743
02:34:47,720 --> 02:34:55,340
The fraud that has been propagated by the members of this council seems to wash over you.

1744
02:34:56,460 --> 02:35:06,540
Your faces are impassive. You've committed crimes, crimes, significant financial malfeasance.

1745
02:35:06,540 --> 02:35:08,120
residents, let that sink in.

1746
02:35:09,980 --> 02:35:16,740
You are now turning to face, Kerry residents, many of whom are telling you, that giving

1747
02:35:16,740 --> 02:35:22,840
away $200,000 a year in tax revenue.

1748
02:35:23,760 --> 02:35:26,060
Let's remember what tax revenue is.

1749
02:35:27,360 --> 02:35:29,660
Tax payer dollars.

1750
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:30,760
What does that mean?

1751
02:35:30,760 --> 02:35:39,360
money people have earned in their jobs and been forced by you to give to the

1752
02:35:39,360 --> 02:35:46,020
government in good faith that you have taken and you're asking if you can give

1753
02:35:46,020 --> 02:35:50,160
it away to a municipality that is not answerable to us.

1754
02:35:59,580 --> 02:36:01,200
Each one of you will

1755
02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:08,540
gladly have to stand for reelection sooner or later. I genuinely support

1756
02:36:08,540 --> 02:36:14,580
women in government. I'm glad to see a panel full of women who are in leadership.

1757
02:36:15,120 --> 02:36:18,620
I'm appalled at what you've done with it.

1758
02:36:24,780 --> 02:36:27,520
You are elected, Bella, you are in my

1759
02:36:27,520 --> 02:36:34,380
district, to represent the welfare of the people who live in that area.

1760
02:36:35,480 --> 02:36:39,760
Amberwood apartment buildings is fine. Leave it alone.

1761
02:36:47,020 --> 02:36:48,580
I will end with this

1762
02:36:48,580 --> 02:36:56,520
one extraordinarily important point. When I reviewed the crime statistics for every

1763
02:36:56,520 --> 02:37:04,340
Raleigh housing authority building within its jurisdiction, the violent crime recorded

1764
02:37:04,340 --> 02:37:11,040
by police in Raleigh in the immediate quarter mile around those apartments exceeded national

1765
02:37:11,040 --> 02:37:12,780
averages by staggering numbers.

1766
02:37:14,160 --> 02:37:15,740
Shall I tell you what they were?

1767
02:37:20,060 --> 02:37:20,700
Drive-by shootings,

1768
02:37:22,930 --> 02:37:25,490
rape, intentional homicide,

1769
02:37:27,620 --> 02:37:31,360
sexual assault of a child at gunpoint, in the

1770
02:37:31,360 --> 02:37:35,920
daytime, near the street, not by a family member.

1771
02:37:36,760 --> 02:37:37,520
Do you know what that means?

1772
02:37:38,420 --> 02:37:42,420
Street crime, the likes of which Kerry cannot comprehend.

1773
02:37:43,320 --> 02:37:54,980
I moved here from Atlanta and I can tell you, even in the areas where taxpayers feel buffered from crime, it will arrive on your doorstep.

1774
02:37:57,930 --> 02:38:02,910
And I will tell you, the ballot box will arrive on yours.

1775
02:38:04,170 --> 02:38:05,770
Vote no.

1776
02:38:22,160 --> 02:38:25,100
Our next speaker is Thomas followed by Candace DeMadis.

1777
02:38:25,100 --> 02:38:26,040
My

1778
02:38:32,160 --> 02:38:38,940
name is Tom Kellerherr. I am a resident of Lockmere. I've been in Cary since 1992.

1779
02:38:41,330 --> 02:38:48,080
Although I do not have a southern accent, you can tell I'm from the Boston area. I was

1780
02:38:48,080 --> 02:38:53,740
born in Buford, South Carolina, so that qualifies me to be here. So with that said,

1781
02:38:53,740 --> 02:38:57,640
But I mentioned that I'm from the Boston area.

1782
02:38:58,660 --> 02:39:07,640
And my personal life story is I grew up under the Cambridge Housing Authority in Boston.

1783
02:39:09,720 --> 02:39:16,100
Similar projects, we call them projects, similar arrangements to this proposed arrangement,

1784
02:39:17,180 --> 02:39:26,960
similar situations, similar wanting to do good for the community, and then rampant mismanagement.

1785
02:39:28,440 --> 02:39:38,100
That mismanagement caused a lot of grief on my family. I have scars to approve that

1786
02:39:38,100 --> 02:39:46,100
but it was mismanaged. I have a stab wound. And that is something that I don't want anywhere

1787
02:39:46,940 --> 02:39:53,860
in our carry community, especially managed by a housing authority and a housing authority

1788
02:39:53,860 --> 02:40:01,180
that is not within the carry limits and not controlled by carry. Now, I know other

1789
02:40:01,180 --> 02:40:11,280
folks have gone over the money, the 219 by 30 years, 6.5 million adjusted for inflation,

1790
02:40:12,320 --> 02:40:17,500
up to 11 million. And if you take the other numbers and say, well, actually, the inflation

1791
02:40:17,500 --> 02:40:28,360
adjustment of 2%, it should be 5%, it just goes up into astronomical numbers. But I came

1792
02:40:28,360 --> 02:40:30,360
Time to carry, 92, like I said.

1793
02:40:30,740 --> 02:40:37,440
I worked my way through carry in different neighborhoods, and my whole goal was to live

1794
02:40:37,440 --> 02:40:39,620
at Lockmere, to live in that environment.

1795
02:40:40,860 --> 02:40:42,460
I think I deserve that right.

1796
02:40:43,980 --> 02:40:46,020
I think I deserve to preserve that right.

1797
02:40:46,960 --> 02:40:56,160
Ambowood itself is a give back where we provide not subsidized housing for honest

1798
02:40:56,160 --> 02:41:01,040
people to make a living, to grow and carry. We provide that already. There's no

1799
02:41:01,040 --> 02:41:02,540
reason to remove this.

1800
02:41:05,360 --> 02:41:08,520
I wanted to say things like, well I'm a disabled

1801
02:41:08,520 --> 02:41:16,220
veteran, which I am. I have struggled. I've seen what these housing authorities

1802
02:41:17,780 --> 02:41:25,500
who present delusions of grandeur and what they actually deliver. I've seen

1803
02:41:25,500 --> 02:41:32,140
the rats and the sewers. I've seen trash piled up as high as the second story within the project

1804
02:41:32,140 --> 02:41:39,940
I lived in. I've seen the riot police come in every Friday and Saturday night and throw

1805
02:41:39,940 --> 02:41:45,420
tear gas to where we have to close our windows and we can't go outside. These are all places

1806
02:41:45,420 --> 02:41:52,080
that are managed by the Housing Authority who I don't even think is in here in the

1807
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:57,880
room anymore to hear these comments. So I may be misspeaking on that, but, you know,

1808
02:41:57,920 --> 02:42:06,660
that's my observation and that's what I'm going to stand on. I do know through articles

1809
02:42:06,660 --> 02:42:14,440
within different papers and news feeds and all that, that the Raleigh Housing Authority

1810
02:42:14,440 --> 02:42:17,900
and the current owners have bragged to say, well, we don't really need your approval.

1811
02:42:19,060 --> 02:42:21,060
We can go ahead with this without your approval.

1812
02:42:21,700 --> 02:42:23,020
So then don't give it to them.

1813
02:42:23,600 --> 02:42:27,720
Don't give them the tax break, which is what they probably need and they desire.

1814
02:42:29,300 --> 02:42:30,900
Let them do what they want to do.

1815
02:42:31,100 --> 02:42:33,200
If that's what they can do, then do it.

1816
02:42:34,380 --> 02:42:38,400
I guarantee you they won't go ahead if you don't approve this and give them the tax break.

1817
02:42:40,990 --> 02:42:46,790
After all my years of service through the military, I think I deserve,

1818
02:42:46,790 --> 02:42:53,250
And I think my community deserves, and I think Cary deserves your consideration in this issue.

1819
02:42:54,310 --> 02:42:55,790
Just don't give them the authority.

1820
02:42:58,290 --> 02:43:01,490
That's all I can say except for this is financially bad for Cary.

1821
02:43:02,190 --> 02:43:07,830
It's very stressful for the current Amber Woods residents who eventually will be kicked out.

1822
02:43:08,190 --> 02:43:09,650
And I know I'm summing up now.

1823
02:43:09,650 --> 02:43:19,910
And the surrounding thousands of Cary residents who support what we have here in Cary.

1824
02:43:22,120 --> 02:43:26,320
I think we know that the word transparency came by tonight.

1825
02:43:27,100 --> 02:43:28,300
And I think this is your moment.

1826
02:43:28,820 --> 02:43:30,220
You want to make things right?

1827
02:43:31,220 --> 02:43:34,760
Be transparent about this and not vote for it.

1828
02:43:34,760 --> 02:43:35,860
Thank you.

1829
02:43:46,520 --> 02:43:50,280
Our next speaker is Candice D'Amatis followed by Stormy Forte.

1830
02:44:01,230 --> 02:44:02,270
Who's after that?

1831
02:44:02,570 --> 02:44:10,610
So Candice, then Stormy, then Paula, Hachino. So it's Candice here.

1832
02:44:12,780 --> 02:44:13,540
Okay, who's the next

1833
02:44:13,540 --> 02:44:18,960
speaker? Stormy. Forte. Followed by Paula. Is Stormy here?

1834
02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:22,560
Next speaker. Paula.

1835
02:44:32,920 --> 02:44:32,920
Good

1836
02:44:32,920 --> 02:44:39,600
resident of Kerry. My name is Paula Mancino. I live on Franklin Heights Road, and Amberwood

1837
02:44:39,600 --> 02:44:47,840
is adjacent to my neighborhood. I live off of Piney Plains. Ms. Donna, over here is

1838
02:44:47,840 --> 02:44:56,880
a resident. How many years? 40 years. Her husband came to the same town and insisted

1839
02:44:56,880 --> 02:44:59,660
that they paved the road before they built Amberwood.

1840
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:05,860
It was dirt. She worked for the state. Her husband worked for the state. Her son worked for the state.

1841
02:45:06,960 --> 02:45:12,240
He had to beg and plead for them to keep the trees up for the buffers where deers can live in the woods.

1842
02:45:13,280 --> 02:45:21,320
I make $15.50 an hour. I teach preschool. My husband works hard. I have a son on the spectrum.

1843
02:45:22,040 --> 02:45:28,380
I don't need to worry about what's going to happen behind those woods to the people that live there now,

1844
02:45:28,380 --> 02:45:39,480
to Miss Donna shouldn't have to put up a fence. She's a widow. Her son has some needs. She

1845
02:45:39,480 --> 02:45:46,060
shouldn't have to worry. Her husband helped make that area as beautiful as it is because

1846
02:45:46,060 --> 02:45:51,380
he had to come here and tell you people how to go by the laws. That the developers

1847
02:45:51,380 --> 02:45:57,260
have to put up a stop sign and a sidewalk. And they have to pave the road. This is

1848
02:45:57,260 --> 02:46:07,720
not rocket science. It's called legal zoning protocols. Okay. The presentation neglected

1849
02:46:07,720 --> 02:46:16,280
to mention the Wake County taxes that Raleigh would be exempt from, which I think is a lot

1850
02:46:16,280 --> 02:46:21,760
more than $200 in something thousand dollars per year. Okay. I'm sure one of you knows

1851
02:46:21,760 --> 02:46:30,120
the number. Okay, 725,000 times 30 years. I'm not a statistician, but I know that's a lot

1852
02:46:30,120 --> 02:46:38,940
of money. Okay. I love Kerry. How much? $21 million. Why don't you all pay that? Okay,

1853
02:46:39,040 --> 02:46:45,200
you write us a check. Get out your checkbook. Okay. God bless me. Let me be nice. Okay.

1854
02:46:45,920 --> 02:46:50,980
I love Kerry. I love their townspeople. They're hardworking. They're kind and they're

1855
02:46:50,980 --> 02:46:58,380
honest people. They're from all over the world by the way. Okay, I'm here to speak my peace.

1856
02:46:58,600 --> 02:47:03,720
There's neighbors in my area that are disabled that are veterans that have adult children

1857
02:47:03,720 --> 02:47:07,840
on the spectrum and they shouldn't have to be afraid to walk down the street because

1858
02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:15,520
we're going to put in subsidized housing in our backyard. My husband works long hours.

1859
02:47:15,640 --> 02:47:19,680
I should not be afraid who's walking down my street. My son should not have to be

1860
02:47:19,680 --> 02:47:24,220
afraid because he's on the autism spectrum. Somebody might run him down. We've got one

1861
02:47:24,220 --> 02:47:26,180
lady in the neighborhood. We're going to catch her.

1862
02:47:28,630 --> 02:47:32,770
Okay. I want our tax dollars to stay

1863
02:47:32,770 --> 02:47:40,570
and carry so we can hire more police officers so people can call 911 and not be put on hold

1864
02:47:40,570 --> 02:47:46,550
for God's sake. How many people have called 911 in the town at carry and can't get

1865
02:47:46,550 --> 02:47:50,630
somebody to answer. Where is the money for that?

1866
02:47:52,980 --> 02:47:58,520
Okay? I do not want you to vote yes

1867
02:47:58,520 --> 02:48:07,360
on this. The tax money deserves to stay in the town of Cary. There are people living in

1868
02:48:07,360 --> 02:48:10,900
our community now. It used to be Swift Creek and then it became town of Cary and everyone

1869
02:48:10,900 --> 02:48:15,140
thought that would be wonderful. Duke's raising our rates. Y'all approve that.

1870
02:48:15,140 --> 02:48:18,560
The water is going up, there we go.

1871
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:21,600
You said we were going to have our taxes up 3.5.

1872
02:48:21,640 --> 02:48:23,400
Well, we talked you down to 2.5.

1873
02:48:23,480 --> 02:48:24,900
Thank you, but no thank you.

1874
02:48:25,440 --> 02:48:30,280
Last time I checked, I didn't get a 2.5% increase in my wages,

1875
02:48:31,280 --> 02:48:36,160
in my neighbor's social security, in those veterans' benefits.

1876
02:48:36,560 --> 02:48:38,120
Did you get a 2.5 raise?

1877
02:48:38,560 --> 02:48:39,020
I did.

1878
02:48:39,280 --> 02:48:39,940
You did.

1879
02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:41,440
Good for you.

1880
02:48:41,960 --> 02:48:43,500
I'm sure you'll put some to charity.

1881
02:48:43,500 --> 02:48:53,660
The wealthy people living in Cary and all of us other folks living in Cary do not want

1882
02:48:53,660 --> 02:48:57,380
folks that need affordable housing to go without.

1883
02:48:57,880 --> 02:48:59,540
That needs to be clear here.

1884
02:49:00,420 --> 02:49:06,640
No one is here putting people down that live in a place that has affordable housing.

1885
02:49:08,400 --> 02:49:10,300
I am speaking from experience.

1886
02:49:10,300 --> 02:49:17,700
I lived near the projects in St. Paul, Minnesota and I know what section 8 subsidized housing

1887
02:49:17,700 --> 02:49:23,840
looks like and it's scary and it's not everybody that lives there but only takes about 10% to

1888
02:49:23,840 --> 02:49:28,940
take the whole place down and you are going to lose money if you approve it because

1889
02:49:28,940 --> 02:49:31,820
guess what people are going to be leaving in droves.

1890
02:49:31,900 --> 02:49:34,140
Is that what you want for the town of Cary and Sina?

1891
02:49:34,980 --> 02:49:35,380
Okay.

1892
02:49:35,380 --> 02:49:42,000
So, I want you to realize that if you allow that to happen, you will see higher crime rates,

1893
02:49:42,520 --> 02:49:46,460
you will see drug-related crimes, no one wants to talk about the drugs, but that comes with

1894
02:49:46,460 --> 02:49:46,600
it.

1895
02:49:46,620 --> 02:49:47,620
That's the time is expired thing.

1896
02:49:47,620 --> 02:49:53,640
Last time, and let's remember the child abuse and neglect, I'm prayerful that the

1897
02:49:53,640 --> 02:49:59,040
town of Kerry, God bless you it's true, will make the right decision and not sell

1898
02:49:59,040 --> 02:50:08,100
Amberwood because we have serious concerns. Some people like myself, our home property

1899
02:50:08,100 --> 02:50:14,220
values are all the only investment I have. I'm going to be 55 years old. I would like

1900
02:50:14,220 --> 02:50:20,800
to stay in my house until I'm no longer alive. I'd like my son to inherit that house. I

1901
02:50:20,800 --> 02:50:26,080
would like my son to be able to keep the property value so he can have something to

1902
02:50:26,080 --> 02:50:29,480
live off of and not be paying for subsidized housing.

1903
02:50:29,900 --> 02:50:30,300
Thank you.

1904
02:50:30,620 --> 02:50:31,220
God bless you.

1905
02:50:35,500 --> 02:50:38,640
Our next speaker is Tim Brock,

1906
02:50:46,840 --> 02:50:48,000
followed by Thomas Hosey.

1907
02:50:57,790 --> 02:50:58,210
Good evening.

1908
02:50:59,030 --> 02:51:00,010
My name is Tim Brock.

1909
02:51:00,710 --> 02:51:04,750
I am also a resident of Lockmere and a resident of Cary.

1910
02:51:05,390 --> 02:51:10,890
I came tonight to voice my support for affordable housing and the resolution before you right

1911
02:51:10,890 --> 02:51:11,130
now.

1912
02:51:11,130 --> 02:51:20,950
I think it's really important as a community benefit that we have affordable housing and I think Kerry recognizes that as it's in a lot of our plans and our visioning.

1913
02:51:22,110 --> 02:51:29,690
I also think that, you know, it's important to keep these wonderful people in place. They're already here at Amberwood. Many of them might be here tonight.

1914
02:51:30,130 --> 02:51:38,250
I think they're critical members and valuable members of our community and I think we need to support them staying here so they can work and engage and live in Kerry

1915
02:51:38,250 --> 02:51:41,410
and don't have to make long commutes to stay part of our community.

1916
02:51:42,510 --> 02:51:48,750
I also think in terms of when you think about affordable housing, it's also people who are

1917
02:51:48,750 --> 02:51:53,150
already living here who maybe have parents that can't afford to come and live in Cary

1918
02:51:53,150 --> 02:51:58,090
and they need a place to stay nearby and they can sort of engage in an affordable housing

1919
02:51:58,090 --> 02:52:02,130
and I know that's been something that over the years has been an issue with my family.

1920
02:52:02,970 --> 02:52:07,150
And so I think it's really important that we have affordable housing in Cary.

1921
02:52:07,150 --> 02:52:13,510
In terms of the cost proposition, I think this is a very good cost proposition for affordable

1922
02:52:13,510 --> 02:52:13,950
housing.

1923
02:52:14,350 --> 02:52:19,070
When you think about what it would take to buy land, construct and develop affordable

1924
02:52:19,070 --> 02:52:25,550
housing and the maintenance cost, that is way more expensive than foregoing $200,000

1925
02:52:25,850 --> 02:52:26,910
in taxes a year.

1926
02:52:27,330 --> 02:52:32,130
I think this is really important and really worth doing because it is a fraction of

1927
02:52:32,130 --> 02:52:35,330
the cost to get affordable housing that we want to need and carry.

1928
02:52:37,660 --> 02:52:41,940
In terms of community character, in terms of community character,

1929
02:52:42,500 --> 02:52:46,400
Amberwood is already there and they've been wonderful neighbors

1930
02:52:46,400 --> 02:52:48,500
and those residents will stay in place.

1931
02:52:48,880 --> 02:52:56,220
And I think that it will continue to be great neighbors

1932
02:52:56,220 --> 02:52:57,320
and a great place to be.

1933
02:52:57,920 --> 02:53:03,040
And so I think in terms of this, my biggest concern is that if the deal were to fall through

1934
02:53:03,040 --> 02:53:08,520
and RHA doesn't get this property and a predatory development company comes and looks this as

1935
02:53:08,520 --> 02:53:14,300
an extract of opportunity to disinvest and degrade the property and if we see a dilapidated property

1936
02:53:14,300 --> 02:53:18,280
then that really will impact community character so I have concerns about that.

1937
02:53:22,160 --> 02:53:27,780
So to reaffirm I am a Lockmere resident and I am very much in support of affordable

1938
02:53:27,780 --> 02:53:31,380
housing in this proposition and I want to thank you for your time this evening.

1939
02:53:38,340 --> 02:53:41,400
Our next speaker is Thomas Hosey followed by Reynolds Nippy.

1940
02:53:41,400 --> 02:53:46,380
I'm sorry could you repeat the name Thomas Hosey I believe followed by riddle

1941
02:53:50,020 --> 02:53:52,600
They are in council people. I am Thomas

1942
02:53:54,020 --> 02:53:59,580
I'm told in Thomas Jay Hosey. I live in Kerry homeowner there in the Winston Ridge development

1943
02:53:59,580 --> 02:54:00,600
I

1944
02:54:00,600 --> 02:54:05,140
too have concerns with the RHA proposal for the public housing at Amberwood

1945
02:54:05,140 --> 02:54:07,140
This would eliminate approximately

1946
02:54:07,140 --> 02:54:13,880
236,000 to the city, over 500,000 to the county property tax annually, or while property

1947
02:54:13,880 --> 02:54:20,980
tax and carry was just increased by the council 8%, another 3.5% by the county, however the

1948
02:54:20,980 --> 02:54:24,820
needs for amberwood services would continue but unfunded.

1949
02:54:25,520 --> 02:54:29,540
Property values in the fabric of the community are of great concern.

1950
02:54:30,260 --> 02:54:35,100
Neither RHA or Wake Housing Authority own or operate apartments and carry.

1951
02:54:35,100 --> 02:54:41,720
They primarily use vouchers for single units, the owner pays the property tax, and hundreds

1952
02:54:41,720 --> 02:54:44,900
of units are not concentrated in one location.

1953
02:54:46,060 --> 02:54:51,220
Large-scale public housing and carry would be a first, an experiment, if you will, without

1954
02:54:51,220 --> 02:54:51,720
precedent.

1955
02:54:52,420 --> 02:54:58,180
In fact, there is only one publicly-owned complex of comparable size and concentration

1956
02:54:58,710 --> 02:55:02,800
in the entire state of North Carolina, and that is McDougal Terrace in Durham.

1957
02:55:02,800 --> 02:55:09,600
This large complex and adjacent area experience dramatically high crimes, as well as many

1958
02:55:09,600 --> 02:55:11,820
associated challenges, violent crimes.

1959
02:55:12,660 --> 02:55:18,360
Comprehensive studies that are not limited to just low-income areas and actually distinguish

1960
02:55:18,360 --> 02:55:24,780
between affluent areas and low-income indicate when public housing occurs in affluent areas

1961
02:55:24,780 --> 02:55:28,160
such as carry, property values do fall.

1962
02:55:28,160 --> 02:55:35,180
They go down, as opposed to when built in lower-income areas where values can remain stable or actually increase.

1963
02:55:36,020 --> 02:55:44,340
A few examples of comprehensive studies that make this finding include a 2016, a 2019 Stanford University study,

1964
02:55:44,940 --> 02:55:52,540
a 2016 Harvard University study with work noted economists Rebecca Diamond and Tim McQuade,

1965
02:55:52,540 --> 02:56:00,080
as well as a 2016 urban studies that's specifically focused on the Charlotte area, just to name a few.

1966
02:56:01,040 --> 02:56:04,820
Additionally, the City Council has no future input into this experiment.

1967
02:56:05,640 --> 02:56:14,080
RHA can make any changes they choose at any time without regard to how this impacts the surrounding areas or the required city service levels.

1968
02:56:14,720 --> 02:56:21,840
According to RAL, a WRAL on July 16th, Wake County and various Raleigh agencies are seeking

1969
02:56:21,840 --> 02:56:25,220
to house 400 homeless people each year.

1970
02:56:25,940 --> 02:56:29,600
They have a budget of $22 million, which is great, so they will be housed.

1971
02:56:30,560 --> 02:56:33,600
Would RHA unilaterally decide to house them at Amberwood?

1972
02:56:33,960 --> 02:56:35,680
It is definitely more than possible.

1973
02:56:36,340 --> 02:56:39,260
Again, Cary Council would not be a decision maker on this.

1974
02:56:39,260 --> 02:56:43,900
This is not a carry merry-gold development model, which is great.

1975
02:56:44,660 --> 02:56:46,100
It's a very different approach.

1976
02:56:47,160 --> 02:56:49,860
AMBOID does a pride in naturally occurring affordable housing,

1977
02:56:50,040 --> 02:56:51,480
many of you have already stated.

1978
02:56:52,260 --> 02:56:58,580
Changing this to public subsidized housing will not add any affordable units.

1979
02:56:58,900 --> 02:56:59,860
This is already occurring.

1980
02:57:00,020 --> 02:57:05,020
It's been stated 52% low-mod AMI and 96% occupied.

1981
02:57:05,020 --> 02:57:12,980
However, if approved, it would remove needed property tax, negatively impact adjacent property

1982
02:57:12,980 --> 02:57:16,880
values supported by comprehensive studies that conclude this in affluent areas.

1983
02:57:17,640 --> 02:57:19,600
Remove counsel as a decision maker.

1984
02:57:20,540 --> 02:57:25,420
Counselor's responsibility, as you know, is to promote stable home values, public safety,

1985
02:57:25,980 --> 02:57:31,540
fiscal responsibility, and ensure the continuity of the fabric of the community for existing

1986
02:57:31,540 --> 02:57:32,240
residents.

1987
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:34,220
This is why we elected you.

1988
02:57:34,220 --> 02:57:39,340
and purchased homes and carry rather than less expensive homes in other communities.

1989
02:57:40,100 --> 02:57:45,220
Removing 340 units from the tax roll while taxes increased on existing homeowners,

1990
02:57:45,540 --> 02:57:51,140
jeopardizing existing property values, and eliminating oversight simply does not fulfill

1991
02:57:51,140 --> 02:57:54,280
the risk responsibility owed to existing carry residents.

1992
02:57:55,580 --> 02:58:01,400
The intentions are great, but the downside at this location, at this concentrated size,

1993
02:58:01,400 --> 02:58:06,860
at this fiscal juncture are just not in the best instance of current carry

1994
02:58:06,860 --> 02:58:12,760
residents. I would urge you to please vote no on this. Thank you very much. I

1995
02:58:12,760 --> 02:58:13,560
appreciate your time.

1996
02:58:21,360 --> 02:58:28,200
Our next speaker is Reynolds. Okay. Followed by Eric Northine.

1997
02:58:39,870 --> 02:58:43,970
Good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members.

1998
02:58:45,960 --> 02:58:47,410
That gentleman was right.

1999
02:58:48,230 --> 02:58:54,770
A lot of you folks are somewhat on the record of being in favor of affordable housing and

2000
02:58:54,770 --> 02:58:55,470
an authority.

2001
02:58:58,310 --> 02:59:01,390
Don't vote your dream, vote your reality if you please.

2002
02:59:01,390 --> 02:59:07,390
The reality, this gentleman just gave you the reality and it's not as good as a dream.

2003
02:59:08,930 --> 02:59:13,350
Amberwood is a success and someone before me said it, leave it alone.

2004
02:59:15,710 --> 02:59:20,130
Okay, now I do have about two minutes maybe or less.

2005
02:59:22,710 --> 02:59:26,370
And it's in big print so it'll go real quick and it's only two sides.

2006
02:59:28,130 --> 02:59:36,150
Okay, comments on the Raleigh Housing Authority coming to Kerry with the Raleigh program.

2007
02:59:36,830 --> 02:59:39,750
Number one, this is a backdoor entry.

2008
02:59:40,310 --> 02:59:43,110
You folks have been talking about tonight about transparency.

2009
02:59:43,970 --> 02:59:45,190
This is a backdoor entry.

2010
02:59:45,830 --> 02:59:51,310
Kerry has not initiated a housing authority and has not therefore debated it publicly

2011
02:59:51,310 --> 02:59:57,790
or sought a vote of approval of our citizens to undertake such a costly program.

2012
02:59:58,410 --> 02:59:59,670
We may be in favor of it.

2013
03:00:00,140 --> 03:00:06,840
But it's a, this is a backdoor effort. Number two, North Carolina State Auditor

2014
03:00:06,840 --> 03:00:16,590
pardon me for, for talking about what's happened in the last six days. North

2015
03:00:16,590 --> 03:00:22,130
Carolina State Auditor only a week ago released a 2,600 page investigative

2016
03:00:22,130 --> 03:00:30,010
report detailing to quote WRAO, widespread financial mismanagement within

2017
03:00:30,010 --> 03:00:31,690
in the town of Kerry," end quote.

2018
03:00:32,970 --> 03:00:38,510
Number three, again I quote WRIL's article, quote,

2019
03:00:38,730 --> 03:00:41,450
extravagant spending, investigation reveals

2020
03:00:41,450 --> 03:00:47,730
Kerry's fund balance fell below policy thresholds

2021
03:00:47,730 --> 03:00:53,270
in fiscal 2023 and fiscal 2024, end quote.

2022
03:00:54,620 --> 03:00:59,230
Number four, if members of the town council of Kerry

2023
03:00:59,230 --> 03:01:06,130
vote yes on this agenda item tonight your yes will reduce Kerry's real estate income tax

2024
03:01:07,070 --> 03:01:15,770
Kerry's income town's income it was put up tonight about 230,000 plus dollars just the first year

2025
03:01:17,470 --> 03:01:24,830
because the Raleigh Housing Authority as you have heard and know is tax exempt

2026
03:01:26,090 --> 03:01:34,230
Number five, I ask you, each and every member of this town council, please vote no on Raleigh's

2027
03:01:34,230 --> 03:01:34,590
request.

2028
03:01:35,930 --> 03:01:36,350
Thank you.

2029
03:01:44,180 --> 03:01:45,960
Our next speaker is Eric Northam.

2030
03:01:47,200 --> 03:01:48,360
Followed by Roy Miller.

2031
03:02:00,170 --> 03:02:05,130
Hello, my name is Eric Northam, and I've been a Carrier Resident for more than 43 years

2032
03:02:05,130 --> 03:02:05,350
now.

2033
03:02:05,990 --> 03:02:08,410
In fact, I've been a Lockmere Resident for 39 years.

2034
03:02:09,050 --> 03:02:10,870
So I've seen the area quite a bit.

2035
03:02:10,870 --> 03:02:17,770
But I am on the Board of Directors of the Lockmere Homeowners Association, so I'm going

2036
03:02:17,770 --> 03:02:20,290
to give you the view of our HOA.

2037
03:02:22,310 --> 03:02:27,670
I appreciate you letting me stand up here and address all of you and speak on behalf

2038
03:02:27,670 --> 03:02:29,650
of the Lockmere Homeowners Association.

2039
03:02:31,630 --> 03:02:39,790
We represent about 1,966 properties and owners, including Amberwood.

2040
03:02:39,790 --> 03:02:44,950
We do recognize the importance of affordable housing in Cary. It's very

2041
03:02:44,950 --> 03:02:52,230
important. That's why we've had Amber Wood working as a NOAH, I guess you call it,

2042
03:02:52,430 --> 03:02:59,230
for 35 years. However, we have received quite a bit of feedback from our

2043
03:02:59,230 --> 03:03:04,750
residents and the overwhelming majority oppose this resolution. So we

2044
03:03:04,750 --> 03:03:13,070
respectfully ask the council to vote no tonight. First, I would like to highlight three concerns.

2045
03:03:13,310 --> 03:03:18,750
I'll try not to cover items that are already been covered, so I'll modify some of the words

2046
03:03:18,750 --> 03:03:19,190
on here.

2047
03:03:21,250 --> 03:03:25,750
But the things I'd like to talk about are the benefits to carry, financial

2048
03:03:25,750 --> 03:03:31,890
impacts and lack of transparency. So first, the benefits to carry, they remain very

2049
03:03:31,890 --> 03:03:33,870
unclear to a lot of us.

2050
03:03:35,550 --> 03:03:40,530
The accelerated timeline has allowed little opportunity to evaluate the long-term impacts

2051
03:03:41,010 --> 03:03:42,350
of this significant change.

2052
03:03:43,770 --> 03:03:50,190
This resolution would authorize the Raleigh Housing Authority to obtain jurisdiction in

2053
03:03:50,190 --> 03:03:54,450
Cary, and that goes a long way.

2054
03:03:55,290 --> 03:04:00,870
I think even on the slides that we saw at the beginning, we said that the Raleigh

2055
03:04:00,870 --> 03:04:06,770
housing authorities going to set aside a minimum of 51% of the units as low-income

2056
03:04:06,770 --> 03:04:11,630
housing. What do you think is going to happen to those amberwood residents when

2057
03:04:11,630 --> 03:04:16,810
their lease comes due? They're not going to qualify for that. So they will be

2058
03:04:16,810 --> 03:04:24,190
displaced and put other people in there. So before approving this

2059
03:04:24,190 --> 03:04:27,910
resolution the Council really should have clear answers about whether the

2060
03:04:27,910 --> 03:04:33,310
Raleigh Housing Authority, ownership would change occupancy policies and whether current

2061
03:04:33,310 --> 03:04:40,450
carry residents would continue to be served. Second, the financial impact deserves careful

2062
03:04:40,450 --> 03:04:45,470
consideration. A lot of the speakers have been up here talking about the reduction in

2063
03:04:46,170 --> 03:04:51,590
taxes and things like that. I'm not going to cover all those numbers again, but at

2064
03:04:51,590 --> 03:04:56,810
the same time that you have reduced amounts, you're still, the town is still going to

2065
03:04:56,810 --> 03:05:01,890
be responsible for providing police, fire, transportation, and other municipal services.

2066
03:05:02,270 --> 03:05:08,790
In fact, there's a lot of research that said that it might actually go up based on the

2067
03:05:08,790 --> 03:05:09,230
use of it.

2068
03:05:11,680 --> 03:05:12,850
So where would that come from?

2069
03:05:14,110 --> 03:05:19,610
The residents deserve to know how this lost revenue would be offset and what impact it

2070
03:05:19,610 --> 03:05:23,590
could have on our own future town services or our property taxes.

2071
03:05:23,590 --> 03:05:26,710
So I think you ought to consider that.

2072
03:05:27,850 --> 03:05:30,870
And then third, the public process is lack transparency.

2073
03:05:31,870 --> 03:05:33,150
I mean, that's just very obvious.

2074
03:05:33,690 --> 03:05:36,950
The legal notice was issued on July 10th.

2075
03:05:37,210 --> 03:05:40,770
And that we've left less than two weeks for public review.

2076
03:05:41,590 --> 03:05:42,330
Less than two weeks.

2077
03:05:43,790 --> 03:05:46,530
I think you had over 144 comments.

2078
03:05:46,670 --> 03:05:48,110
Is that what I heard the number was?

2079
03:05:49,030 --> 03:05:53,330
Neither the Lockinger Association nor neighboring communities received direct notification.

2080
03:05:54,390 --> 03:05:55,650
So we did not get that.

2081
03:05:55,930 --> 03:05:58,050
We found out about it by word of mouth.

2082
03:06:00,140 --> 03:06:04,220
So I don't think that's very transparent.

2083
03:06:06,680 --> 03:06:12,480
A decision with long-term consequences should include meaningful public engagement and

2084
03:06:12,480 --> 03:06:14,840
really not a rushed process that is.

2085
03:06:14,840 --> 03:06:21,380
So the resolution tonight is more than just a procedural action, and I've read those

2086
03:06:21,380 --> 03:06:23,260
words from the staff.

2087
03:06:24,120 --> 03:06:30,280
This really could establish a precedent for outside housing authorities to acquire and

2088
03:06:30,280 --> 03:06:34,160
operate properties in carry without a clear obligation to benefit carry residents.

2089
03:06:35,160 --> 03:06:41,080
So in closing, I'd say the Lockmere Homeowners Association respectfully urges the Council

2090
03:06:41,080 --> 03:06:43,140
to vote no on this resolution.

2091
03:06:43,140 --> 03:06:43,960
I

2092
03:06:51,740 --> 03:07:00,740
would reiterate also at a minimum, if you don't vote no, that you vote to defer this

2093
03:07:00,740 --> 03:07:06,060
and gather the facts so that you have clear answers regarding occupancy policies.

2094
03:07:06,320 --> 03:07:06,680
Thank you.

2095
03:07:06,860 --> 03:07:11,020
A thorough financial impact analysis and an open public dialogue with the taxpayers

2096
03:07:11,020 --> 03:07:12,000
who will be affected.

2097
03:07:12,320 --> 03:07:12,640
Thank you.

2098
03:07:19,560 --> 03:07:22,180
Our next speaker is Rory Miller, followed by Mary Kent.

2099
03:07:28,580 --> 03:07:28,840
Hi.

2100
03:07:29,040 --> 03:07:33,500
My name is Rory Miller, and like most of the people before me, I'm a homeowner

2101
03:07:34,180 --> 03:07:38,580
I want to start with I'm not going to focus on the crime and all that

2102
03:07:38,580 --> 03:07:42,620
demographics anything like that that's outside my purview. I want to focus on

2103
03:07:42,620 --> 03:07:48,640
RHA. They were formed in 1938, 88 years ago. To date I don't know that they've

2104
03:07:48,640 --> 03:07:52,700
ever owned a property outside of Raleigh City Limits. Why now? Why our

2105
03:07:52,700 --> 03:07:54,140
neighborhood? Why Kerry?

2106
03:07:57,860 --> 03:08:00,560
I understand the need for affordable housing. I've

2107
03:08:00,560 --> 03:08:04,680
lived in I assume much rougher places than anybody sitting up there

2108
03:08:04,680 --> 03:08:10,480
right now. I've been there. I don't judge on it, but there's some concerns for sure.

2109
03:08:10,700 --> 03:08:13,580
I'm going to go back to the whole process. Sorry, I'm going to speed up so I don't run

2110
03:08:13,580 --> 03:08:18,620
out of time like everybody else. The first notice came out 10 days ago. In that notice

2111
03:08:18,620 --> 03:08:23,020
it said the Kerry Town Council intends to adopt the resolution authorizing the Raleigh

2112
03:08:23,020 --> 03:08:27,800
Housing Authority to acquire and rehabilitate. The word intend is bothersome to me here.

2113
03:08:28,500 --> 03:08:33,060
You didn't have the public hearing yet. You didn't listen to your constituents and

2114
03:08:33,060 --> 03:08:36,440
When you already made a decision, it's not okay.

2115
03:08:37,080 --> 03:08:39,900
Now there will be people for it and against it, that's okay.

2116
03:08:40,040 --> 03:08:42,720
We all have our opinion and that's what makes the democracy of America.

2117
03:08:43,740 --> 03:08:46,360
I'm here to hear everybody, it is what it is.

2118
03:08:47,520 --> 03:08:51,840
The word intent was bothersome to me because you guys seem to already have your thing and

2119
03:08:51,840 --> 03:08:56,000
going back to what you campaign on, yes, many campaign on affordable housing, okay,

2120
03:08:56,480 --> 03:08:58,000
you know, do what you campaign on.

2121
03:08:58,000 --> 03:09:06,440
The document I saw today, DOC ID 8655, attachment resolution, was titled the resolution of the

2122
03:09:06,440 --> 03:09:10,560
Cary Town Council authorizing the Housing Authority of the City of Raleigh to acquire

2123
03:09:10,560 --> 03:09:14,160
and rehabilitate a certain multifamily housing development located in Cary.

2124
03:09:15,020 --> 03:09:18,540
It states that the Housing Authority of the City of Raleigh has requested that the

2125
03:09:18,540 --> 03:09:23,500
town authorize RHA to operate and perform its lawful functions within the boundaries

2126
03:09:23,500 --> 03:09:28,540
of the town in connection with the acquisition and rehabilitation by RHA

2127
03:09:28,540 --> 03:09:33,320
through its nonprofit affiliate capital area developments incorporated. That's the

2128
03:09:33,320 --> 03:09:37,820
first I heard of them. What's the relationship? Do you guys all know? I

2129
03:09:37,820 --> 03:09:42,380
looked it up. I know there was a name change. We'll go to the corporate

2130
03:09:42,380 --> 03:09:47,200
filings. We've got a ton of different entities here. RHA, Raleigh Housing

2131
03:09:47,200 --> 03:09:50,100
Authority, 11 properties listed in Wake County real estate all in the

2132
03:09:50,100 --> 03:09:54,600
City of Raleigh, RHA Incorporated, Raleigh Housing Authority Incorporated, 15 properties

2133
03:09:54,600 --> 03:09:58,580
listed in Wake County Real Estate all in the City of Raleigh, Capital Area Developments

2134
03:09:58,580 --> 03:10:04,460
Incorporated, Non-Profit, 80 properties listed in Wake County all in the City of Raleigh.

2135
03:10:04,900 --> 03:10:07,900
And then we have one for the Raleigh Housing Authority as well, I assume it's an office,

2136
03:10:08,360 --> 03:10:12,920
107 total properties owned by all of these different entities, all in Raleigh, Zero

2137
03:10:12,920 --> 03:10:21,340
and Kerry. I think we support the affordable housing. I think there's

2138
03:10:21,340 --> 03:10:25,580
definitely questions of why to push this through in two weeks flat. And then

2139
03:10:25,580 --> 03:10:29,580
every time the information comes out it's different. And frankly I don't know

2140
03:10:29,580 --> 03:10:35,940
that I don't mean to assume here but I'm not sure if you guys understand

2141
03:10:35,940 --> 03:10:41,140
the corporate structure of these two different entities. So a nonprofit, who's

2142
03:10:41,140 --> 03:10:44,980
buying it. Is the nonprofit buying it? Because I'm sure that's going to change the way we

2143
03:10:44,980 --> 03:10:50,000
govern them as far as Lockmere goes, as far as the town of Kerry goes. And like many

2144
03:10:50,000 --> 03:10:55,640
others have said, basically it seems like Raleigh is going to get their first foot

2145
03:10:55,640 --> 03:11:00,020
in the door, like I said, 88 years. They don't have any properties outside of Raleigh

2146
03:11:00,020 --> 03:11:04,720
and we're going to be the first. So good or bad, can't tell you, but it'll have

2147
03:11:04,720 --> 03:11:06,580
of every one of your names attached to it

2148
03:11:06,580 --> 03:11:08,220
if you vote yes on the resolution today.

2149
03:11:10,780 --> 03:11:11,260
So

2150
03:11:15,140 --> 03:11:17,600
I do want to go to one more thing.

2151
03:11:18,380 --> 03:11:20,360
It kind of relates to crime, but not really.

2152
03:11:20,920 --> 03:11:25,500
So federal lawsuits settled October 16th, 2019 by RHA.

2153
03:11:26,300 --> 03:11:27,820
Per fair housing project,

2154
03:11:27,940 --> 03:11:30,660
the Project of Legal Aid of North Carolina, RHA,

2155
03:11:30,820 --> 03:11:32,340
settled a federal discrimination complaint

2156
03:11:32,340 --> 03:11:35,720
filed against the RHA on behalf of a public housing tenant

2157
03:11:35,720 --> 03:11:37,240
who was a victim of domestic violence.

2158
03:11:37,240 --> 03:11:42,320
The settlement includes a federal consent decree believed to be the first in the country

2159
03:11:42,320 --> 03:11:47,220
to address the landlord's obligations under the VAWA, Violence Against Women Act.

2160
03:11:48,540 --> 03:11:51,320
Well, they did it first, don't know that that's a good thing.

2161
03:11:51,640 --> 03:11:52,800
I feel bad for the woman, though.

2162
03:11:53,280 --> 03:11:57,800
The tenant was a victim of multiple crimes at her housing unit, violence perpetrated

2163
03:11:57,800 --> 03:12:01,340
by an ex-boyfriend who strangled her, a home intruder who threatened her guests

2164
03:12:01,340 --> 03:12:04,760
at gunpoint, an armed man plural who shot bullets into her apartment.

2165
03:12:05,440 --> 03:12:06,820
No, I'm not focusing on the crime.

2166
03:12:06,820 --> 03:12:12,600
no woman or nobody should have to go through that and that happened under RHA's watch and

2167
03:12:12,600 --> 03:12:16,540
they had to settle it federally. Thank you to Legal Aid of North Carolina for that.

2168
03:12:17,120 --> 03:12:21,640
If you do some research on the gentleman that was here, I'm sure you'll find interesting

2169
03:12:21,640 --> 03:12:27,040
things in Everett Housing Authority relating to how he manages. I guess that's it. Thank

2170
03:12:27,040 --> 03:12:27,320
you guys.

2171
03:12:36,060 --> 03:12:39,380
Our next speaker is Mary Kintz, followed by Samantha Bartner.

2172
03:12:39,380 --> 03:12:40,380
Good

2173
03:12:50,330 --> 03:12:54,910
evening, Mayor, Town Council staff, Cary folks.

2174
03:12:55,890 --> 03:12:57,350
My name is Mary Kintz.

2175
03:12:59,030 --> 03:13:01,450
I'm employed at St. Paul's Episcopal Church.

2176
03:13:01,570 --> 03:13:02,430
I'm on staff there.

2177
03:13:02,570 --> 03:13:04,630
My title is Community Connector.

2178
03:13:05,430 --> 03:13:08,530
I'm also a member of the strategy team of One Wake.

2179
03:13:11,030 --> 03:13:17,430
One Wake is formed so that we can reach beyond the boundaries of our faith and try to

2180
03:13:17,430 --> 03:13:24,010
connect, trying to connect people together to find a way to a more just and loving world.

2181
03:13:26,910 --> 03:13:35,810
I'm really frustrated that this is happening tonight. Timing stinks. There's an opportunity

2182
03:13:35,810 --> 03:13:45,830
before us that has nothing to do with corruption. There's an opportunity before us and I feel

2183
03:13:45,830 --> 03:13:53,010
like I'm in a time warp because 30 years ago the thing that prompted me and really spurred

2184
03:13:53,010 --> 03:13:58,490
me to get involved in one wake was the time that I kept my mouth shut when the Episcopal

2185
03:13:58,490 --> 03:14:03,530
Housing Ministry wanted to build affordable housing apartments in my backyard, literally

2186
03:14:03,530 --> 03:14:07,390
in the backyard of the first home I ever owned.

2187
03:14:08,230 --> 03:14:10,450
And I said, who's going to live there?

2188
03:14:11,290 --> 03:14:16,530
And they said, single moms, people who are just trying to make it.

2189
03:14:17,390 --> 03:14:18,770
And I said, you know what?

2190
03:14:18,950 --> 03:14:20,290
That's the neighborhood I grew up in.

2191
03:14:21,390 --> 03:14:23,050
Yeah, I want that in my backyard.

2192
03:14:23,570 --> 03:14:25,570
And my neighbor said, you are an idiot.

2193
03:14:26,250 --> 03:14:29,410
You're going to lose everything that you ever worked for in this house.

2194
03:14:30,350 --> 03:14:31,530
You're going to lose it all.

2195
03:14:31,990 --> 03:14:33,130
And so I shut up.

2196
03:14:34,410 --> 03:14:38,710
And the Episcopal Housing Ministry didn't build apartments on Dynasty Drive.

2197
03:14:38,710 --> 03:14:43,980
so here I am 30 years later and

2198
03:14:46,120 --> 03:14:50,640
the mood is really not any different except that

2199
03:14:50,640 --> 03:14:58,300
the town council is listening now you're taking it on the chin for listening and

2200
03:14:58,300 --> 03:14:59,960
I'm kind of embarrassed by that

2201
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:01,740
I'm sad about that.

2202
03:15:02,940 --> 03:15:05,160
Stop, please. Let her speak.

2203
03:15:07,530 --> 03:15:12,770
You know, rent is expensive. Wages are not keeping pace.

2204
03:15:13,390 --> 03:15:18,350
Debt is increasing. No area in Wake County is getting ahead of this.

2205
03:15:19,130 --> 03:15:24,130
We have got to work together to try to change this runaway system.

2206
03:15:24,130 --> 03:15:31,050
system. We have got to stop blaming people for the hardships that the system keeps piling

2207
03:15:31,050 --> 03:15:36,850
on them. We used to say people were down on their luck. You know, if they come knocking

2208
03:15:36,850 --> 03:15:40,450
at the church door, we maybe didn't want to say that they were having a hard time. No,

2209
03:15:40,490 --> 03:15:47,650
they're down on their luck, as if luck is the driving factor. We have created a system

2210
03:15:47,650 --> 03:15:54,690
that keeps pushing people into these crises. We have to stop it.

2211
03:15:56,690 --> 03:16:00,210
Chatham Estates was an issue in March.

2212
03:16:00,810 --> 03:16:04,310
I was there with my camera on the last day that they gathered.

2213
03:16:05,090 --> 03:16:07,810
I was there to capture the emotion of what was going on.

2214
03:16:08,610 --> 03:16:11,330
I captured the emotion of several of Utah Council members

2215
03:16:11,330 --> 03:16:15,290
who were weeping over the fact that these people were being wiped away.

2216
03:16:16,490 --> 03:16:22,170
People said, if only we had enough money that we could buy the land out from under them,

2217
03:16:22,530 --> 03:16:24,430
that we could keep them here.

2218
03:16:24,630 --> 03:16:28,410
If only we could invest in them, we cared about them.

2219
03:16:29,770 --> 03:16:30,970
We didn't have the money.

2220
03:16:31,090 --> 03:16:31,990
We didn't have a superhero.

2221
03:16:32,270 --> 03:16:33,110
Please let her speak.

2222
03:16:33,510 --> 03:16:39,590
So now, when we're presented with a solution that will prevent profitability from taking

2223
03:16:39,590 --> 03:16:41,950
over this land, what do we do?

2224
03:16:44,320 --> 03:16:45,340
Oh, we don't want that here.

2225
03:16:45,480 --> 03:16:46,340
We don't trust them.

2226
03:16:46,340 --> 03:16:50,480
We don't trust anybody. Profitability is the thing.

2227
03:16:50,800 --> 03:16:53,480
We can't afford to let these people live here.

2228
03:16:53,960 --> 03:16:58,220
We keep calling them these people as if it's not us.

2229
03:17:00,020 --> 03:17:01,480
Where are our priorities?

2230
03:17:02,880 --> 03:17:06,800
Good ideas don't stop at the boundaries of our town.

2231
03:17:07,620 --> 03:17:10,820
There's good ideas in Raleigh. There's good ideas in Zebulun.

2232
03:17:11,040 --> 03:17:12,740
There's good ideas in a lot of places.

2233
03:17:13,580 --> 03:17:20,660
We stand at a crossroads where we can bring collaboration in in a place that we have never done this before.

2234
03:17:21,120 --> 03:17:38,400
Innovation is what gets us beyond the same old, same old. Innovation will carry us way beyond the 30-year problem of not in my backyard.

2235
03:17:39,960 --> 03:17:46,340
I urge you to let this collaboration be the beginning of a new way forward for all of

2236
03:17:46,340 --> 03:17:46,800
Wake County.

2237
03:17:47,940 --> 03:17:54,930
Are we only a profit-motivated society, or can we think about the people that are in

2238
03:17:54,930 --> 03:17:55,210
our community?

2239
03:17:55,210 --> 03:17:55,510
Thank you.

2240
03:17:55,650 --> 03:17:56,530
Your time has expired.

2241
03:17:56,890 --> 03:17:57,210
Thank you.

2242
03:18:18,420 --> 03:18:19,080
Good evening.

2243
03:18:19,420 --> 03:18:20,660
My name is Samantha Bertner.

2244
03:18:21,400 --> 03:18:26,320
My husband, Jared, and I became first-time homeowners four years ago when we bought

2245
03:18:26,320 --> 03:18:31,440
our home in Lockmere, and we live directly across the street from the Amberwood apartment

2246
03:18:31,440 --> 03:18:37,280
community. We can see the entrance from our windows. We're here tonight with our four

2247
03:18:37,280 --> 03:18:46,900
children and many, many of our Lockmere neighbors to voice our objection to the Raleigh Housing

2248
03:18:46,900 --> 03:18:52,680
Authority acquiring this property. The Town of Kerry should not authorize or enable this

2249
03:18:52,680 --> 03:18:58,240
for all of the reasons that you've heard tonight and because the Raleigh Housing Authority

2250
03:18:58,240 --> 03:19:01,760
is not operating on behalf of Cary and will not be a good neighbor.

2251
03:19:03,400 --> 03:19:12,420
The Raleigh Housing Authority has an extensive application process and long wait lists which

2252
03:19:12,420 --> 03:19:15,700
range from months to several years according to their website.

2253
03:19:15,700 --> 03:19:23,700
The application for this public housing, and the application, I'm sorry, is for this

2254
03:19:23,700 --> 03:19:24,400
public housing.

2255
03:19:24,640 --> 03:19:29,200
And when public housing units become available, the next person on the waitlist is notified.

2256
03:19:29,780 --> 03:19:32,080
This is not carry specific.

2257
03:19:33,300 --> 03:19:37,120
Raleigh public housing in carry will move people looking for affordable housing in

2258
03:19:37,120 --> 03:19:41,500
Raleigh out of the city, which might be in Raleigh's best interest, but is not

2259
03:19:41,500 --> 03:19:47,200
not serving the housing needs of the people of Cary or the town of Cary's stated housing

2260
03:19:47,200 --> 03:19:47,660
goals.

2261
03:19:49,630 --> 03:19:54,820
This idea that the idea that this housing would be for Cary's teachers and firefighters

2262
03:19:54,820 --> 03:19:57,360
who we love is just a comfortable fantasy.

2263
03:19:58,380 --> 03:20:02,980
In reality, the RHA cannot guarantee that people living in Amberwood are working

2264
03:20:02,980 --> 03:20:03,460
in Cary.

2265
03:20:03,940 --> 03:20:08,760
And in fact, it's most likely that residents would be from Raleigh, effectively taking

2266
03:20:08,760 --> 03:20:10,340
housing from Cary residents.

2267
03:20:12,200 --> 03:20:18,000
This is not preserving affordable housing for Cary residents as Ms. Wailihan hopes.

2268
03:20:18,720 --> 03:20:23,120
It will only create more public housing for Raleigh's public housing program.

2269
03:20:24,420 --> 03:20:27,040
The reason the RHA will be a bad neighbor is twofold.

2270
03:20:27,680 --> 03:20:32,340
First, it takes a robust property management team to maintain a clean, safe and comfortable

2271
03:20:32,340 --> 03:20:32,920
community.

2272
03:20:33,740 --> 03:20:37,560
I have experience with this as I was a property manager for many years.

2273
03:20:37,560 --> 03:20:42,240
and some of the communities I worked for had low income designated units.

2274
03:20:43,880 --> 03:20:48,240
RHA apartment communities have received many negative reviews from residents

2275
03:20:48,240 --> 03:20:51,180
complaining about trash, dirty and stinky buildings,

2276
03:20:51,480 --> 03:20:54,340
broken AC for weeks during our recent heat wave,

2277
03:20:54,800 --> 03:20:57,780
and complaints about management and unresponsive staff.

2278
03:20:58,400 --> 03:21:00,240
One resident review even said,

2279
03:21:00,520 --> 03:21:03,900
don't move here unless you have nowhere else to go.

2280
03:21:04,720 --> 03:21:09,280
I drove by RHA's Kentwood community and the first department I saw had a broken

2281
03:21:09,280 --> 03:21:13,760
couch sitting on the front porch and trash all around the front door. This is

2282
03:21:13,760 --> 03:21:17,920
not in keeping with the community standards of Lockmere and we should

2283
03:21:17,920 --> 03:21:21,960
not invite Raleigh's dysfunctional property management choices into our

2284
03:21:21,960 --> 03:21:25,180
neighborhood and into our communities. Second,

2285
03:21:28,590 --> 03:21:30,630
the RHA is not

2286
03:21:30,630 --> 03:21:34,930
accountable to the people of Cary as many people have pointed out or even

2287
03:21:34,930 --> 03:21:39,150
to its own residents that are living at their communities. This kind of bureaucratic entity

2288
03:21:39,150 --> 03:21:43,150
has no incentive to keep residents happy since there's a steady supply of applicants waiting

2289
03:21:43,150 --> 03:21:50,930
to take their place. Or it's carry neighbors since it has no ties of any kind to our community.

2290
03:21:53,220 --> 03:21:57,180
Voting yes on this resolution would not only go against the will of the community affected

2291
03:21:57,180 --> 03:22:02,740
by this measure whom you represent and have heard from tonight overwhelmingly, but also

2292
03:22:02,740 --> 03:22:07,200
against the best interests of Cary since it will not keep Cary housing available for Cary

2293
03:22:07,200 --> 03:22:11,640
residents and will introduce an unaccountable government entity into our community.

2294
03:22:12,880 --> 03:22:19,480
We urge and expect a no vote on this resolution and even more that you will take action to

2295
03:22:19,480 --> 03:22:21,580
prevent this acquisition in the future.

2296
03:22:22,380 --> 03:22:22,820
Thank you.

2297
03:22:33,540 --> 03:22:37,320
Our last registered speaker is Michael Jones.

2298
03:22:38,680 --> 03:22:39,320
Mr. Jones?

2299
03:22:39,320 --> 03:22:40,140
I

2300
03:22:52,680 --> 03:22:54,220
guess I'm the speaker you've been waiting for.

2301
03:22:56,340 --> 03:23:00,180
Thank you. Nice to be here for all of my fellow Cary citizens.

2302
03:23:01,200 --> 03:23:03,340
Most citizens of Cary are here by choice.

2303
03:23:04,300 --> 03:23:07,880
We could have chosen Raleigh with its high rises and urban amenities,

2304
03:23:08,480 --> 03:23:10,580
but we chose Raleigh. I've chose Cary.

2305
03:23:11,060 --> 03:23:13,680
Cary with roughly one-seventh the violent crime,

2306
03:23:14,180 --> 03:23:17,340
allowing citizens of all ages to enjoy time in public spaces.

2307
03:23:18,000 --> 03:23:20,560
Cary with less than one-half the property crime.

2308
03:23:21,220 --> 03:23:35,140
This proposal gives the Mayor of Cary, her non-appointed Rosalyn Raleigh Housing Authority commissioners, their CEO, and 134 fellow employees' operational authority over the 340 units of Amberwood Apartments.

2309
03:23:36,180 --> 03:23:38,460
You, our Cary elected citizens, can say no.

2310
03:23:39,580 --> 03:23:41,200
That's the only voice you will have.

2311
03:23:41,200 --> 03:23:46,180
A yes, though, by you will mean all citizens of Kerry will relinquish our operation of

2312
03:23:46,180 --> 03:23:52,440
this large, the operation of this large, successful Kerry apartment complex to a governor organization

2313
03:23:52,440 --> 03:23:55,260
that answers to their citizens, not ours.

2314
03:23:56,400 --> 03:24:01,240
Unlike private, privately owned departments, these will not be subject to the open market

2315
03:24:01,240 --> 03:24:03,320
forces of renters with choices.

2316
03:24:04,380 --> 03:24:07,780
Subsidized renters will not have alternative accommodations they can afford.

2317
03:24:08,660 --> 03:24:15,280
It's a property trap for the residents who become dependent and must accept what a full

2318
03:24:15,280 --> 03:24:16,860
market paying renter would not.

2319
03:24:18,460 --> 03:24:23,660
Who here believes Raleigh will prioritize carry apartments, sending them the best residents,

2320
03:24:24,340 --> 03:24:30,560
putting first their operational and maintenance funds over their own Raleigh units.

2321
03:24:31,500 --> 03:24:36,280
This acquisition of a significant carry property by a government that does not serve us

2322
03:24:36,780 --> 03:24:42,900
is wrong for the town of Kerry, bad for the people of Kerry, but quite the outlet for Raleigh,

2323
03:24:43,980 --> 03:24:47,400
the citizen of Kerry voted for you. Who will you vote for?

2324
03:24:56,140 --> 03:25:01,260
That's it for those who have signed up to speak. If you are in the audience and would like to speak, this is your opportunity.

2325
03:25:23,780 --> 03:25:31,420
Good evening, Council. My name is Evan McGinn, and I serve at the Kirk of Kildare Presbyterian Church, and I'm a Kerry resident.

2326
03:25:32,320 --> 03:25:38,020
In a previous role, I also served on the advisory council of the largest effort to preserve

2327
03:25:38,020 --> 03:25:39,920
NOAA housing in North Carolina.

2328
03:25:41,340 --> 03:25:47,160
I'll say that much of the discussion tonight has focused on whether or not 300 units of

2329
03:25:47,160 --> 03:25:54,060
affordable housing should come to carry when I want to note that there are already 340

2330
03:25:54,060 --> 03:25:56,240
units of affordable housing in care.

2331
03:25:56,240 --> 03:26:04,680
And so the question is not, should these 340 units become affordable housing, the question

2332
03:26:04,680 --> 03:26:06,840
is, do we want to lose it?

2333
03:26:07,800 --> 03:26:13,740
Now I'll say that comes with a cost, that decision to preserve NOAA housing, which

2334
03:26:13,740 --> 03:26:16,940
is the largest source of affordable housing in Kerry.

2335
03:26:17,180 --> 03:26:20,340
It's 80% of all affordable housing in Wake County.

2336
03:26:20,340 --> 03:26:26,780
community, if we want to keep that because it's vulnerable, it is the most at risk source

2337
03:26:26,780 --> 03:26:32,640
of affordable housing in our community. If we want to keep that vulnerable and large

2338
03:26:32,640 --> 03:26:38,100
stock of affordable housing in this community, it comes with a cost that's been talked about

2339
03:26:38,100 --> 03:26:46,740
a lot this evening, that $200,000 number, that $15 million over 30 years. What has

2340
03:26:46,740 --> 03:26:53,420
not been talked about is the cost of building 340 units of affordable housing which by my

2341
03:26:53,420 --> 03:27:00,540
account with the current North Carolina Builders Association, 250,000 per unit cost comes to

2342
03:27:00,540 --> 03:27:01,920
about $85 million.

2343
03:27:02,960 --> 03:27:08,460
So I know there's been a lot of discussion about financial responsibility and management

2344
03:27:08,460 --> 03:27:15,120
this evening but I would compare $85 million and $15 million and I would take this bet

2345
03:27:15,120 --> 03:27:22,720
as a much more responsible choice. I would also just want to say that I think if you live

2346
03:27:22,720 --> 03:27:29,840
in Amberwood, if it's managed by the Raleigh Housing Authority, you're still a Cary resident.

2347
03:27:31,040 --> 03:27:33,580
And I'll leave that there. Thank you.

2348
03:27:48,700 --> 03:27:54,100
Good evening, Council. My name is Reverend Wesley Spears Newsom. And I've lived in

2349
03:27:54,100 --> 03:28:01,020
carry for about a decade now coming up on our 10th anniversary and I'm proud to live in this town.

2350
03:28:01,860 --> 03:28:07,620
I'm a pastor at Greenwood Forest Baptist Church just down the road at the intersection of Maynard

2351
03:28:07,620 --> 03:28:17,040
and Kildare Farm. And when I first started working in ministry and carry, one of the things

2352
03:28:17,040 --> 03:28:23,280
that would happen a lot is folks would come in with small needs. They would come in needing

2353
03:28:23,280 --> 03:28:29,660
a grocery card, needing a gas card, needing a bus ticket just to get to Raleigh.

2354
03:28:30,280 --> 03:28:33,920
It's back then, we had higher fares. So thank you for that.

2355
03:28:36,160 --> 03:28:38,640
But eventually they started coming with more.

2356
03:28:39,240 --> 03:28:43,340
And they started coming with needs that we couldn't meet.

2357
03:28:44,120 --> 03:28:47,600
They started coming with needs like rent that was too high,

2358
03:28:48,380 --> 03:28:50,200
utility bills that were too high.

2359
03:28:50,200 --> 03:28:53,900
And we didn't have the resources to help with that.

2360
03:28:54,840 --> 03:28:58,880
And that is what led to our congregation's housing work.

2361
03:29:00,140 --> 03:29:05,620
Many of the folks in Cary know us as people who have worked on housing and are working on housing.

2362
03:29:06,200 --> 03:29:11,820
We were one of the founding congregations of One Wake because of this interest in housing.

2363
03:29:12,260 --> 03:29:18,240
Because we saw it affecting the people who walked in our door and the people who sat in our pews.

2364
03:29:19,720 --> 03:29:27,740
We have decided to take half of our property and make it available to become affordable housing

2365
03:29:27,740 --> 03:29:30,600
because we believe in putting money where our mouth is.

2366
03:29:34,680 --> 03:29:41,520
So one wake in Greenwood Forest and our folks are not coming to you as people who just want other people to do things,

2367
03:29:41,740 --> 03:29:44,580
but we're putting our skin in the game too.

2368
03:29:45,620 --> 03:29:52,440
And given my history with housing advocacy and housing work and working with vulnerable

2369
03:29:52,440 --> 03:29:58,400
populations, when I heard details about RHA purchasing amberwood, I actually breathed

2370
03:29:58,400 --> 03:29:59,120
decide relief.

2371
03:30:00,210 --> 03:30:04,930
Because we've been enduring the effects of displacement for years here in Cary.

2372
03:30:05,530 --> 03:30:11,490
Not just the high-profile examples of it, but we've been watching our housing stock disappear.

2373
03:30:12,550 --> 03:30:23,010
I have told the story in front of council before, but the only reason I was able to move from renting in Cary to living in Cary

2374
03:30:23,010 --> 03:30:29,630
where I work and serve the community is because someone in my family died and left us the money.

2375
03:30:30,830 --> 03:30:37,890
And that should not have to happen to be able to afford a house. We should not be necessary

2376
03:30:38,410 --> 03:30:44,430
for folks to die for us to be able to afford housing. And we should not have to work six-figure

2377
03:30:44,430 --> 03:30:50,270
jobs to be able to afford housing and carry. I was relieved when I saw that RHA wanted

2378
03:30:50,270 --> 03:30:56,430
to buy it because this is housing that serves folks who are at the 50% of the

2379
03:30:56,430 --> 03:31:02,310
area median income right now. We're trying to do that on our campus too and we

2380
03:31:02,310 --> 03:31:07,130
don't have as much room it's not going to be 340 units but we have been moving

2381
03:31:07,130 --> 03:31:13,650
heaven and earth for five years for 62 units and it has cost us money and it

2382
03:31:13,650 --> 03:31:19,910
has cost us effort and it is incredibly hard to do and it seems to me

2383
03:31:19,910 --> 03:31:26,370
Given my experience that if we have someone who can come in and preserve affordable housing,

2384
03:31:26,870 --> 03:31:28,770
we should become partners with them.

2385
03:31:29,390 --> 03:31:35,930
I understand the concerns about oversight and I understand the concerns about Raleigh.

2386
03:31:36,370 --> 03:31:39,890
And I also know that the people of Raleigh are my neighbors too.

2387
03:31:40,710 --> 03:31:44,630
That I know that the people of Cary are my near and dear family.

2388
03:31:44,870 --> 03:31:45,750
I love my street.

2389
03:31:46,010 --> 03:31:46,830
I love my neighborhood.

2390
03:31:46,830 --> 03:31:50,430
neighborhood, and I love my church and all the people who go there.

2391
03:31:50,970 --> 03:31:56,210
And I also know that through my work with One Wake, I care about the people of Raleigh, too.

2392
03:31:56,690 --> 03:32:01,050
And I've been disappointed to see them demonized tonight, as they have been.

2393
03:32:01,790 --> 03:32:04,550
And I would like to see these homes stay affordable.

2394
03:32:04,830 --> 03:32:09,510
And I would like to see the residents stay in their homes.

2395
03:32:10,330 --> 03:32:13,370
And we can debate about the best way to do that.

2396
03:32:13,370 --> 03:32:20,490
It seems to me, based on considering this, asking questions of RHA, and asking questions

2397
03:32:20,490 --> 03:32:23,090
of all of you all, that this is our best option right now.

2398
03:32:23,930 --> 03:32:29,450
So let's let people stay, don't turn Carrie into just a luxury community, and let's be

2399
03:32:29,450 --> 03:32:33,730
good partners and good stewards, and above all, be good neighbors.

2400
03:32:34,650 --> 03:32:35,310
Thank you.

2401
03:32:50,290 --> 03:32:54,170
My name's Mike Dolan, like many of you have heard from, I live in Lochmere.

2402
03:32:54,170 --> 03:33:01,010
there. The pastor was just up, seemed to make a good point. I apologize if I disagree with

2403
03:33:01,010 --> 03:33:01,750
a lot of what you said.

2404
03:33:04,360 --> 03:33:06,500
First question is, do you guys know what the

2405
03:33:06,500 --> 03:33:12,660
Okidok is? Because that's what I feel like we're getting. The Okidok is where you get

2406
03:33:12,660 --> 03:33:17,600
somebody's attention on one thing and you get them from behind on something else.

2407
03:33:18,720 --> 03:33:25,400
The Raleigh Housing Authority has priority, as many people have said, not just is not

2408
03:33:25,400 --> 03:33:32,320
part of Cary, but it's going to have priorities that are completely in contradiction to what's

2409
03:33:32,320 --> 03:33:39,560
important for Cary. They're going to be managing a whole portfolio, and as some have said, the

2410
03:33:39,560 --> 03:33:43,840
crime in one might be high or the values in another, and they're going to want to

2411
03:33:43,840 --> 03:33:49,480
distribute that. And any of that will then start being distributed to us. If we

2412
03:33:49,480 --> 03:33:56,740
decide we need a housing authority we need our own not one from from Raleigh or

2413
03:33:56,740 --> 03:34:04,580
any other municipality and I've heard that there's 24 million available to

2414
03:34:04,580 --> 03:34:05,020
start it

2415
03:34:08,730 --> 03:34:16,810
number two the specifically with the Okie-dokie we've heard a lot of

2416
03:34:16,810 --> 03:34:24,130
how it's 219 thousand dollars in tax per year that's going to be forgiven if

2417
03:34:24,130 --> 03:34:29,210
If the Raleigh Housing Authority is allowed to come in, I don't think anybody thinks that

2418
03:34:29,210 --> 03:34:31,310
there won't be an impact on property values.

2419
03:34:32,330 --> 03:34:36,110
Take for example, let's say a house is a half a million dollars.

2420
03:34:37,070 --> 03:34:39,030
I don't think it will go to 100,000.

2421
03:34:39,710 --> 03:34:41,890
Let's say it only loses 10%.

2422
03:34:42,690 --> 03:34:45,350
Let's say it becomes a $450,000 property.

2423
03:34:46,270 --> 03:34:51,270
If you take the value of all the houses and I pulled them, there are within two

2424
03:34:51,270 --> 03:34:59,470
miles of Amber Woods, there's 7,187 private homes. The assessed value is $4.65 billion.

2425
03:35:02,080 --> 03:35:11,780
If you assume a 5% annual increase, which is exactly what we've averaged, that loss

2426
03:35:11,780 --> 03:35:21,220
of property taxes along with will be over four million a year add to that the the

2427
03:35:21,220 --> 03:35:27,440
219,000 over the 30-year commitment you're looking at two hundred and sixty

2428
03:35:27,440 --> 03:35:34,340
three million dollars lost in tax revenue to the town of Kerry so telling

2429
03:35:34,340 --> 03:35:38,820
everybody oh it's only two hundred and nineteen thousand when it's really over

2430
03:35:38,820 --> 03:35:45,100
a quarter billion dollars? That's the okey-doke. That's saying, here's one number, but it's

2431
03:35:45,100 --> 03:35:50,020
really something else. And if you guys haven't done the math and haven't calculated that,

2432
03:35:51,040 --> 03:35:55,640
that's because either there wasn't enough time in the process or you didn't care.

2433
03:35:56,880 --> 03:36:03,720
It gets me to the next part. The fact that the RHA folks left makes me think they already

2434
03:36:03,720 --> 03:36:10,100
know this is a done deal. That's one of the most telling things I've seen. In the wake

2435
03:36:10,100 --> 03:36:15,840
of auditors finding the financial mismanagement, I think it'd be prudent to freeze any large

2436
03:36:15,840 --> 03:36:25,060
financial decisions by the council, the mayor, the board, anybody. This is a chance to instead

2437
03:36:25,060 --> 03:36:29,980
move forward with a different direction. If you want to send the message that this

2438
03:36:29,980 --> 03:36:34,900
This is all for show, that this is all a waste of time, and that this was done, vote yes.

2439
03:36:36,140 --> 03:36:37,380
Otherwise, vote no.

2440
03:36:39,000 --> 03:36:39,740
Thank you.

2441
03:36:52,430 --> 03:36:52,910
Good evening.

2442
03:36:53,150 --> 03:36:53,470
Good evening.

2443
03:36:54,090 --> 03:36:55,290
My name is Joshua Atkins.

2444
03:36:55,930 --> 03:36:59,330
My parents are residents of Blackamere for 25 years.

2445
03:37:00,650 --> 03:37:02,170
I grew up in a household.

2446
03:37:02,610 --> 03:37:03,950
I still live there to this day.

2447
03:37:04,350 --> 03:37:07,110
We live about half a mile from Amberwood.

2448
03:37:08,030 --> 03:37:09,550
I have a disabled brother.

2449
03:37:10,730 --> 03:37:17,510
and he often takes walks to Amberwood or you know to the church which is right

2450
03:37:17,510 --> 03:37:23,190
across the street from Amberwood right up the street. We often take walks every

2451
03:37:23,190 --> 03:37:30,950
day. I have been very starstruck by this because it's been brought to my

2452
03:37:30,950 --> 03:37:40,250
attention just 10 days ago that they're going to put affordable housing in this

2453
03:37:40,250 --> 03:37:47,530
in Lakamir, my neighborhood. So I'm speaking to you as a kid. As a kid of

2454
03:37:47,530 --> 03:37:58,650
Lakamir, I would not feel safe with these people, not these people, but okay,

2455
03:38:00,850 --> 03:38:02,030
I am a

2456
03:38:02,030 --> 03:38:04,090
I have a voice just like you.

2457
03:38:07,590 --> 03:38:10,670
I'm trying to figure out the right words to say.

2458
03:38:12,670 --> 03:38:19,130
Because nowadays we live in a world where you cannot speak your mind without other people disagreeing,

2459
03:38:19,450 --> 03:38:26,550
and we should be able to disagree and go on without our lives, you know, and not, you know, be neighbors.

2460
03:38:26,550 --> 03:38:35,450
And I feel like if we put these affordable housings in, then my neighborhood,

2461
03:38:35,670 --> 03:38:41,450
Laxmere, will become a crime-driven neighborhood, like you've heard the

2462
03:38:41,450 --> 03:38:47,850
numbers today. Why don't we all take a trip down to Raleigh, down to these

2463
03:38:47,850 --> 03:38:53,650
affordable housings and let's take a look around and let's take a look on how

2464
03:38:53,650 --> 03:38:56,830
So that would fit into Cary, how that would fit into Lauchmere.

2465
03:38:57,410 --> 03:39:04,870
My parents, what drew them to Lauchmere was the safeness of Lauchmere and the proximity

2466
03:39:05,370 --> 03:39:09,310
to everything, the proximity of everything.

2467
03:39:10,650 --> 03:39:14,270
You can get the Raleigh within 15 minutes, wherever you need.

2468
03:39:15,510 --> 03:39:20,750
And my concern is today, and my question is to you guys today, would you guys put

2469
03:39:20,750 --> 03:39:22,850
that these affordable housings in your neighborhood.

2470
03:39:25,340 --> 03:39:28,940
Because honestly, I'm not one to be accusing,

2471
03:39:29,720 --> 03:39:30,900
you know, you guys are elected officials,

2472
03:39:31,060 --> 03:39:34,320
I do respect you all, as I've been raised.

2473
03:39:35,260 --> 03:39:37,380
But honestly, I do not feel like you guys

2474
03:39:37,380 --> 03:39:39,140
would put this in your guys' neighborhoods.

2475
03:39:40,240 --> 03:39:41,320
This is my opinion.

2476
03:39:41,880 --> 03:39:43,560
Other people may have different opinions,

2477
03:39:44,080 --> 03:39:46,700
but please do not put this in my neighborhood

2478
03:39:47,120 --> 03:39:51,440
and let my disabled brother risk his life on the street.

2479
03:39:52,180 --> 03:39:58,340
Because if that happens, your mayor's seat and all your guys' seats will be up.

2480
03:40:00,220 --> 03:40:05,280
And I'm of the age to vote now, so I will vote specifically for a different person.

2481
03:40:06,040 --> 03:40:11,460
All right? Thank you, and please do not put this in my neighborhood. Thank you.

2482
03:40:30,450 --> 03:40:37,210
My name is Kim Dakey, and I'm a terrible speaker, so just bear with me.

2483
03:40:39,030 --> 03:40:47,830
I have actually lived in Cary for 48 years, and I haven't heard anybody here that's lived

2484
03:40:48,330 --> 03:40:49,510
quite that long here.

2485
03:40:49,710 --> 03:40:57,650
So I'm coming at it from somebody who's grown up, went to Cary schools, went to college

2486
03:40:57,650 --> 03:41:02,390
in North Carolina, came back, lived in Cary, owned a house in Cary, in fact, right near

2487
03:41:02,390 --> 03:41:10,510
mayor, Mayor Weinbrecht's house. And I'm very concerned about this public housing that's

2488
03:41:10,510 --> 03:41:17,290
going in right across from our neighborhood. I live in Camden Forest, which is right around

2489
03:41:17,290 --> 03:41:25,050
the corner from Lockmere. I'm not going to reiterate all the tax issues, which I feel

2490
03:41:25,050 --> 03:41:37,790
very strongly about, especially given the fact that this city council has just blown

2491
03:41:37,790 --> 03:41:45,190
through all of this money, which really as a taxpayer makes me and most of my friends

2492
03:41:45,190 --> 03:41:52,610
and family extremely angry because if I overspent in my household, I'd have to cut back on a

2493
03:41:52,610 --> 03:42:00,670
things so that I could catch up. It seems like this whole tax issue with this affordable

2494
03:42:00,670 --> 03:42:07,390
housing unit, public housing, is not cutting back on things. It's just wasting more money

2495
03:42:07,390 --> 03:42:13,830
that we have. And yet, it might only be $4 or $5 or $10, but what's the next one going

2496
03:42:13,830 --> 03:42:19,990
to be? What's the next one after that? I mean, it's just going to go on and on

2497
03:42:19,990 --> 03:42:22,590
and I just think it's a poor use of our tax money.

2498
03:42:24,290 --> 03:42:31,790
When I first found out about this, I decided I was going to look up the RHA Housing Developments

2499
03:42:31,790 --> 03:42:38,250
and see for myself what was going on with them crime-wise because I don't like to just

2500
03:42:38,250 --> 03:42:40,790
listen to other people say, oh yeah, well there are a lot of crime.

2501
03:42:41,210 --> 03:42:43,930
And what I found was extremely alarming.

2502
03:42:44,910 --> 03:42:51,610
There's one group that rates some of these places with grades.

2503
03:42:52,330 --> 03:42:58,530
And the only grades I saw were a C, a C minus, and an F plus for crime ratings.

2504
03:42:59,690 --> 03:43:00,710
One is Kentwood.

2505
03:43:01,050 --> 03:43:02,190
It had a C rating.

2506
03:43:02,790 --> 03:43:04,830
So here's what happens with the C rating.

2507
03:43:05,350 --> 03:43:07,790
Most of these are actually not violent crimes.

2508
03:43:07,790 --> 03:43:14,030
There are property crimes and drug crimes, but assault was 67 percent above the national

2509
03:43:14,030 --> 03:43:14,570
average.

2510
03:43:15,220 --> 03:43:18,570
Robbery was 92 percent above the national average.

2511
03:43:19,070 --> 03:43:22,430
Burglary was 50 percent above the national average.

2512
03:43:22,610 --> 03:43:26,790
Larceny and theft was 81 percent above the national average.

2513
03:43:27,410 --> 03:43:30,410
Vehicle theft was 83 above the national average.

2514
03:43:31,070 --> 03:43:32,790
Kentwood is near NC State.

2515
03:43:32,790 --> 03:43:41,090
It's not, you know, in an area that you would really consider to be super low income or

2516
03:43:41,090 --> 03:43:41,730
anything like that.

2517
03:43:41,770 --> 03:43:43,250
I have two kids at NC State.

2518
03:43:45,490 --> 03:43:50,670
Capital Park, which is near William Pease University, was rated C minus.

2519
03:43:51,130 --> 03:43:55,910
I'm not going to go into all of this, but it also had low violent crime, but very,

2520
03:43:55,990 --> 03:44:00,110
very high property crime above the national average.

2521
03:44:00,110 --> 03:44:07,950
The one that really, really got me, though, was Walnut Terrace, which is in downtown Raleigh,

2522
03:44:08,370 --> 03:44:09,890
near Southeast Raleigh.

2523
03:44:10,510 --> 03:44:13,970
This is all Raleigh Housing Association property.

2524
03:44:15,330 --> 03:44:17,490
Very high crime, F-plus.

2525
03:44:18,830 --> 03:44:22,430
Violent crime, 94% above the national average.

2526
03:44:23,090 --> 03:44:24,590
So that's violent crime.

2527
03:44:25,070 --> 03:44:28,350
Property crime was 81% above the national average.

2528
03:44:28,350 --> 03:44:34,410
and overall had a 100% crime rate above the national average.

2529
03:44:36,230 --> 03:44:41,270
So, and all I did was I just googled every one of these properties

2530
03:44:41,270 --> 03:44:44,010
and I really only got to about half of them.

2531
03:44:44,850 --> 03:44:52,470
Now, some people brought up the information about maintenance

2532
03:44:53,260 --> 03:44:57,510
and I was reading that the maintenance requests are

2533
03:44:57,510 --> 03:44:59,890
like there's 250 requests in

2534
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:07,060
Right now at Raleigh Housing Association and they're behind. How do you fill 250 maintenance

2535
03:45:07,060 --> 03:45:13,240
requests? I mean, when my kids lived in apartments at NC State, they had to wait a week to get

2536
03:45:13,240 --> 03:45:17,560
their air conditioning fixed. I mean, it's hot outside. What do you do? You can't wait

2537
03:45:17,560 --> 03:45:21,740
for 250 other requests to be filled before your own.

2538
03:45:24,680 --> 03:45:34,740
So, I just, I really feel like this has been rushed, it's been, you know, a back door type

2539
03:45:34,740 --> 03:45:41,700
of thing and it's a crime, it's going to be, the crime alone is just alarming to me and

2540
03:45:41,700 --> 03:45:44,640
I would urge you to vote no for it, especially you, Bella.

2541
03:45:45,320 --> 03:45:45,800
Thank you.

2542
03:45:45,800 --> 03:45:46,680
Hello,

2543
03:45:53,720 --> 03:45:54,780
Mayor and Town Council.

2544
03:45:55,400 --> 03:45:59,840
And I just want to thank everyone in this town for coming out tonight.

2545
03:46:00,500 --> 03:46:03,240
This is great to have neighbors come together to discuss.

2546
03:46:05,480 --> 03:46:07,080
I hope everyone for-

2547
03:46:07,080 --> 03:46:08,120
Could you state your name, please?

2548
03:46:08,160 --> 03:46:08,880
Oh, yes, thank you.

2549
03:46:09,040 --> 03:46:09,180
Thank you.

2550
03:46:09,200 --> 03:46:10,300
Jenny Lynn Tillotson.

2551
03:46:10,520 --> 03:46:10,840
Thank you.

2552
03:46:10,980 --> 03:46:20,020
And I live in Franklin Chase, my house, the backyard, is open to the Spate Branch Greenway,

2553
03:46:20,020 --> 03:46:25,420
which is easily accessible from the Amberwood apartments.

2554
03:46:26,180 --> 03:46:29,960
And I hope everyone will forgive me for not having prepared remarks,

2555
03:46:30,040 --> 03:46:33,980
but I actually only heard about this four days ago.

2556
03:46:36,600 --> 03:46:44,480
And at first I was very excited because I firmly believe

2557
03:46:44,480 --> 03:46:48,320
that we should have space for everyone in our world,

2558
03:46:48,320 --> 03:46:54,220
and we should be providing opportunities for all of us to reach out and be better neighbors.

2559
03:46:54,800 --> 03:46:58,080
As I've been listening tonight though, I see everyone's concerns.

2560
03:47:03,810 --> 03:47:11,710
There are ways, there are really smart ways, there are really caring ways to provide affordable housing.

2561
03:47:12,250 --> 03:47:18,130
My brother who is a public school teacher in Iowa was hoping to move here

2562
03:47:18,130 --> 03:47:20,990
but can't find a place that they can afford.

2563
03:47:22,970 --> 03:47:30,050
And so I'm all for Cary being able to provide many levels of housing

2564
03:47:30,050 --> 03:47:33,870
where everyone has a lifestyle that they can feel good about.

2565
03:47:35,350 --> 03:47:39,430
The large scope of this development is concerning.

2566
03:47:41,350 --> 03:47:46,110
First of all, because it is rushed, as I said, this came to me as a surprise.

2567
03:47:47,630 --> 03:47:52,370
having only heard about it four days ago from actually a friend who lives in

2568
03:47:52,370 --> 03:47:57,790
Loch Muir. When my house is so easily accessible to the Amberwood, I thought

2569
03:47:57,790 --> 03:48:02,270
perhaps all of us in those surrounding areas should have been notified so that

2570
03:48:02,270 --> 03:48:09,530
we could have time to study this out and learn about it. My hope was that as

2571
03:48:10,250 --> 03:48:14,650
other areas have done where they do have very successful affordable

2572
03:48:14,650 --> 03:48:22,310
affordable housing. My hope was that this was going to be more of a few units placed

2573
03:48:22,310 --> 03:48:30,570
so that no one really can tell within the neighborhood which residents are subsidized.

2574
03:48:31,230 --> 03:48:38,510
So there's more of a community places. I grew up in Utah and also in California and

2575
03:48:38,510 --> 03:48:45,170
neighborhoods where affordable housing is placed highly successfully is where in a group

2576
03:48:45,170 --> 03:48:50,750
of townhomes, one or two townhomes will be the subsidized affordable housing.

2577
03:48:51,250 --> 03:48:59,030
But because neighbors have a chance to be seen as equal with each other, there isn't

2578
03:48:59,030 --> 03:49:06,650
the discrimination, and there isn't an assumption of I have a reason to fear you.

2579
03:49:09,250 --> 03:49:17,010
Or in a housing development, a few houses within that development would have a subsize

2580
03:49:17,010 --> 03:49:23,270
or a lower income level capped for just a few of those houses, but again, none of

2581
03:49:23,270 --> 03:49:28,370
the neighbors would know which of those houses were capped for a lower income.

2582
03:49:29,550 --> 03:49:35,090
It made it a really wonderful opportunity in those neighborhoods where I lived in Utah

2583
03:49:35,090 --> 03:49:45,130
and in California to be able to just reach out and be neighbors and not have any socioeconomic

2584
03:49:45,130 --> 03:49:48,950
status assumptions go along with that.

2585
03:49:48,950 --> 03:49:57,170
So, as much as I was super excited to know that there's affordable housing being promoted

2586
03:49:57,830 --> 03:50:04,870
by Utah Council and by other entities in the town of Kerry, from what I've heard tonight,

2587
03:50:05,470 --> 03:50:08,990
I don't think this has been well planned or well thought out.

2588
03:50:09,770 --> 03:50:16,190
If what people have studied about the tax issues of taxes going to Raleigh rather

2589
03:50:16,190 --> 03:50:19,670
than to carry is true. I think that's a mistake.

2590
03:50:22,490 --> 03:50:26,290
I would just urge all of us, though, to find

2591
03:50:26,290 --> 03:50:33,990
better ways to welcome all people into our lives and into our neighborhoods that we can

2592
03:50:33,990 --> 03:50:40,490
have our distrust evaporate because there's a really wonderful thing that happens. If

2593
03:50:40,490 --> 03:50:45,930
If you see someone as an enemy, they're going to be an enemy.

2594
03:50:46,450 --> 03:50:52,090
But if you instead treat your enemies, quote enemies as friends, pretty soon you don't have

2595
03:50:52,090 --> 03:50:52,630
any enemies.

2596
03:50:53,750 --> 03:50:55,670
And we can make that happen in Cary.

2597
03:50:56,770 --> 03:51:00,930
But it needs to be done wisely, judiciously, carefully.

2598
03:51:01,290 --> 03:51:02,110
Your time has expired.

2599
03:51:02,330 --> 03:51:03,530
Thank you very much, Town Council.

2600
03:51:03,790 --> 03:51:04,810
Thank you, Cary residents.

2601
03:51:18,100 --> 03:51:18,460
Hi.

2602
03:51:18,600 --> 03:51:19,360
My name is Paul Kohl.

2603
03:51:19,920 --> 03:51:21,100
I live in Lochmere.

2604
03:51:21,100 --> 03:51:24,340
I am fairly familiar with the Raleigh Housing Authority.

2605
03:51:24,860 --> 03:51:28,440
I have built housing, subsidized housing before.

2606
03:51:29,000 --> 03:51:31,960
It's a terrible idea to do and carry.

2607
03:51:32,220 --> 03:51:35,400
A terrible idea that most successful ones are when,

2608
03:51:35,500 --> 03:51:37,480
like she said right there, when you build them,

2609
03:51:37,520 --> 03:51:39,200
you mix them in here and there.

2610
03:51:39,580 --> 03:51:41,040
You don't put a group together like that.

2611
03:51:41,380 --> 03:51:44,700
The most successful ever, the crime line goes up 19%.

2612
03:51:44,700 --> 03:51:46,160
That's the most successful.

2613
03:51:46,820 --> 03:51:49,900
So if we can keep it very successful and raise our crime

2614
03:51:49,900 --> 03:51:52,740
I'm only 19%, why would you want to do that?

2615
03:51:53,460 --> 03:51:57,040
I am also a member of the Lockmere Homeware Association,

2616
03:51:58,340 --> 03:52:02,680
the HRA, not the HRA, the Architectural Committee.

2617
03:52:03,720 --> 03:52:05,420
Everybody has to keep their yards up.

2618
03:52:06,180 --> 03:52:07,920
Amber Woods, no exception, like she says.

2619
03:52:08,360 --> 03:52:10,040
It's not like people were saying before

2620
03:52:10,040 --> 03:52:13,000
that another develop will come in here

2621
03:52:13,000 --> 03:52:13,900
and they'll let it run down.

2622
03:52:14,120 --> 03:52:17,040
It won't be run down, it has to be maintained.

2623
03:52:17,920 --> 03:52:20,480
We have control over it the way it is somewhat control.

2624
03:52:21,740 --> 03:52:25,760
If we don't, if we let Raleigh take care of it,

2625
03:52:25,760 --> 03:52:27,420
and I'm familiar with Raleigh Housing Authority.

2626
03:52:28,080 --> 03:52:28,900
I know how they work.

2627
03:52:29,100 --> 03:52:31,360
I know how, believe me, it'll be an absolute mess.

2628
03:52:32,020 --> 03:52:36,340
People in Lockmere, most of the people in Lockmere and around here don't want that.

2629
03:52:36,460 --> 03:52:39,500
I know Bella, you've come and you've come to our neighborhood.

2630
03:52:40,080 --> 03:52:41,540
I know your representatives over there,

2631
03:52:41,680 --> 03:52:44,140
and I know most of the people who live in the area don't want it.

2632
03:52:44,140 --> 03:52:47,640
I know some people who rent a lock mirror are they're okay with it

2633
03:52:47,640 --> 03:52:51,840
I know the crowd over there who doesn't live in lock mirror is for it

2634
03:52:53,500 --> 03:52:58,360
But as someone who lives there and someone who cares about our property our neighborhood

2635
03:52:58,360 --> 03:53:04,620
I don't want the crime increase. I do believe it would be good to mix people in neighborhoods here and there

2636
03:53:05,220 --> 03:53:10,640
Not all together in one section that never works out. It always raises crime everywhere

2637
03:53:10,640 --> 03:53:14,060
where there's never been one that hasn't raised a crime.

2638
03:53:14,200 --> 03:53:15,160
Why would Kerry want it?

2639
03:53:15,320 --> 03:53:17,500
Why would any of you want it in Kerry?

2640
03:53:17,820 --> 03:53:18,540
I don't understand why.

2641
03:53:18,860 --> 03:53:21,420
Anybody who on this council, who represents Kerry,

2642
03:53:21,900 --> 03:53:22,760
would want this.

2643
03:53:23,480 --> 03:53:25,400
Would you want it for any of your people?

2644
03:53:25,940 --> 03:53:27,620
I can't, I can't believe it,

2645
03:53:27,660 --> 03:53:29,960
it's even up for consideration.

2646
03:53:33,340 --> 03:53:36,940
But yeah, anyway, I urge you to vote against it.

2647
03:53:37,460 --> 03:53:38,220
Please do.

2648
03:53:38,700 --> 03:53:40,000
I know what you do is tough.

2649
03:53:40,000 --> 03:53:42,700
I know you get criticism from all sides all the time.

2650
03:53:44,320 --> 03:53:46,440
You know, it's got to be hard to make a decision,

2651
03:53:46,760 --> 03:53:49,020
but for the carry residents who you represent,

2652
03:53:49,720 --> 03:53:50,840
it's not good for us.

2653
03:53:51,280 --> 03:53:52,160
Thank you very much.

2654
03:54:01,620 --> 03:54:01,880
Hello.

2655
03:54:02,100 --> 03:54:03,620
My name is Carla Libertura.

2656
03:54:04,260 --> 03:54:07,260
I lived in affordable housing 33 years ago.

2657
03:54:08,240 --> 03:54:10,700
My husband, David, and I moved from Syracuse, New York,

2658
03:54:10,740 --> 03:54:15,820
where we went broke in the recession in upstate New York.

2659
03:54:16,260 --> 03:54:18,220
We both lost our jobs in the same year.

2660
03:54:18,220 --> 03:54:20,480
We had a one-year-old and a five-year-old.

2661
03:54:21,180 --> 03:54:22,920
We drove down here in two cars.

2662
03:54:23,540 --> 03:54:25,940
It took us two days in blinding snow

2663
03:54:25,940 --> 03:54:28,480
to follow the Mayflower truck to get here.

2664
03:54:29,120 --> 03:54:31,060
My husband started a job that Monday,

2665
03:54:32,080 --> 03:54:35,080
and in a month, the person that hired him

2666
03:54:35,080 --> 03:54:36,320
said she couldn't pay him anymore.

2667
03:54:37,400 --> 03:54:39,780
Everybody was happy to not take a paycheck that month.

2668
03:54:40,380 --> 03:54:42,860
Well, we had babies to feed, and I wasn't working.

2669
03:54:43,800 --> 03:54:46,400
We moved into affordable housing in Durham,

2670
03:54:46,400 --> 03:54:50,720
And I'm telling you, it saved our marriage, it saved our life.

2671
03:54:51,600 --> 03:54:57,560
So when I hear people saying, NIMBY, not in my backyard, it breaks my heart.

2672
03:54:58,000 --> 03:54:59,540
And you can tell I'm on the verge of tears.

2673
03:55:00,660 --> 03:55:03,580
This community is an affluent community.

2674
03:55:04,000 --> 03:55:09,260
We get written up and National Geographic has a beautiful affluent, caring community.

2675
03:55:09,780 --> 03:55:12,600
But we need to open our doors to people who have less than us.

2676
03:55:12,600 --> 03:55:16,480
There are people in this audience who are having trouble making ends meet.

2677
03:55:16,900 --> 03:55:18,500
I've had trouble making ends meet.

2678
03:55:19,320 --> 03:55:21,380
I became a successful financial advisor.

2679
03:55:21,800 --> 03:55:23,240
I raised, we raised our family.

2680
03:55:23,800 --> 03:55:24,860
We live in Lockmere now.

2681
03:55:25,200 --> 03:55:26,700
We live in a beautiful house in Lockmere.

2682
03:55:27,200 --> 03:55:31,280
When I go by Ambergate regularly, because I live two blocks down from there,

2683
03:55:31,660 --> 03:55:33,300
I never see a problem.

2684
03:55:33,580 --> 03:55:37,360
I have never seen a person from Ambergate in my neighborhood.

2685
03:55:44,120 --> 03:55:48,340
I'm really sorry about the anger and the fear that we're hearing here tonight. We're an

2686
03:55:48,340 --> 03:55:53,400
anger, fear-based society, and it's all in this room. Everybody's assuming the worst

2687
03:55:54,320 --> 03:55:59,420
of Raleigh Housing Authority. What if they're trying to create a partnership with us to give

2688
03:55:59,420 --> 03:56:06,280
people a second chance? I really hope that you will consider this proposal, and even

2689
03:56:06,280 --> 03:56:11,040
If you put it on hold and ask them to wait so you can do more research, these people deserve

2690
03:56:11,040 --> 03:56:11,820
a second chance.

2691
03:56:12,120 --> 03:56:12,740
I know I did.

2692
03:56:25,360 --> 03:56:25,760
Hi.

2693
03:56:26,020 --> 03:56:27,080
My name is Allison Spencer.

2694
03:56:27,880 --> 03:56:31,560
I have been a resident of Cary since I was six years old in 1996.

2695
03:56:34,940 --> 03:56:40,620
One thing that I don't think many people have been thinking of is I work with refugees

2696
03:56:40,620 --> 03:56:41,540
and asylees.

2697
03:56:41,540 --> 03:56:49,520
current affordable places like Amberwood who are not controlled by a public housing authority

2698
03:56:49,520 --> 03:56:56,260
offer some of the increasingly limited housing options for a population for these populations

2699
03:56:56,260 --> 03:57:06,760
who are currently under extreme attack by the current administration and and that population

2700
03:57:06,760 --> 03:57:11,720
population is currently being proposed to have barred access to accessing programs like

2701
03:57:11,720 --> 03:57:16,960
this that they have traditionally been offered. Right now, in Lochmere, we have refugees living

2702
03:57:16,960 --> 03:57:24,440
there. We have a refugee who lives in my home. She would not be able to go to this place.

2703
03:57:25,020 --> 03:57:30,440
We have other people who are looking at this place to come and move that I've been working

2704
03:57:30,440 --> 03:57:32,240
working with. Also,

2705
03:57:34,980 --> 03:57:40,180
a lot of this reeks of what happened last year with the Waverly proposal.

2706
03:57:41,280 --> 03:57:47,620
If the council is so concerned about affordable housing availability, why was Waverly approved

2707
03:57:47,620 --> 03:57:58,360
with only seven apartments out of 750 apartments for affordable housing? And of those, all

2708
03:57:58,360 --> 03:58:04,780
All seven of those are efficiency apartments. They don't even get the same level of amenities

2709
03:58:06,060 --> 03:58:10,220
that a normal family or even a family to live in.

2710
03:58:12,620 --> 03:58:14,540
Last year when the vote for Waverly was

2711
03:58:14,540 --> 03:58:21,540
called, my dad called out the town's corruption to y'all's faces. Mr. Mayor, you even told

2712
03:58:22,240 --> 03:58:26,520
how dare he impune on your integrity given the events of the last several months.

2713
03:58:29,140 --> 03:58:29,620
I

2714
03:58:29,620 --> 03:58:34,940
back then and I can't help but wonder what has been offered behind closed doors

2715
03:58:34,940 --> 03:58:40,560
for this deal. Back then we had no idea just how right my dad's assumptions were.

2716
03:58:41,860 --> 03:58:43,000
Thank you very much.

2717
03:58:55,560 --> 03:58:59,000
Mr. Mayor, Town Council, thank you for letting us have

2718
03:58:59,000 --> 03:59:04,740
this time in front of you. My name is David Johnson. I have been a Cary

2719
03:59:04,740 --> 03:59:10,840
resident, a Lockmere homeowner for close to 35 years. I love my neighborhood. I

2720
03:59:10,840 --> 03:59:13,920
I love my neighbors, we disagree all the time.

2721
03:59:14,160 --> 03:59:17,680
But I want to stand up here right now and applaud everyone here

2722
03:59:18,200 --> 03:59:22,200
because we've all come together, whether we like each other

2723
03:59:22,200 --> 03:59:25,540
or we don't like each other, to do the democratic process

2724
03:59:25,540 --> 03:59:27,160
to speak our minds.

2725
03:59:27,560 --> 03:59:29,360
Because if we can't speak our minds,

2726
03:59:30,460 --> 03:59:32,140
nobody's going to know what's going on.

2727
03:59:32,460 --> 03:59:34,220
And that's what happened here, guys.

2728
03:59:34,900 --> 03:59:36,460
This is what happened.

2729
03:59:37,620 --> 03:59:40,100
Two weeks ago, you're my representative, by the way.

2730
03:59:40,100 --> 03:59:46,320
Okay, two weeks ago this came in for, I came home and I found out the world was turning

2731
03:59:46,320 --> 03:59:48,640
upside down, okay?

2732
03:59:49,420 --> 03:59:52,340
I found it sneaky guys, very, very sneaky.

2733
03:59:52,620 --> 03:59:55,080
I would like to ask one question.

2734
03:59:55,080 --> 03:59:59,500
When did this first come up to the carry?

2735
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:06,920
Town council. What day, what month, what year did you guys start discussing this?

2736
04:00:07,120 --> 04:00:08,100
Last week.

2737
04:00:08,760 --> 04:00:12,440
Why did you let that fall and you jump on this?

2738
04:00:12,740 --> 04:00:13,800
This is your time to speak.

2739
04:00:13,920 --> 04:00:16,260
Yes, sir. Why did you let that happen?

2740
04:00:17,340 --> 04:00:22,560
Because in one week's time, nobody can close a house. Could you close a house in a week?

2741
04:00:23,840 --> 04:00:26,900
Can you clear? I couldn't clear out my garage in a week.

2742
04:00:30,220 --> 04:00:34,100
Those that know me know this, but I want to say thank you to everybody that came out tonight,

2743
04:00:34,100 --> 04:00:35,700
whether it's pro, whether it's con.

2744
04:00:35,800 --> 04:00:37,620
I thank all of you for doing your job.

2745
04:00:37,960 --> 04:00:41,640
I'm not going to sit here and say, you know what, you guys are a bunch of crooks.

2746
04:00:41,800 --> 04:00:43,060
I don't think I have to say that.

2747
04:00:44,360 --> 04:00:45,500
That's not how I meant that.

2748
04:00:45,600 --> 04:00:46,300
That came off wrong.

2749
04:00:47,540 --> 04:00:52,020
I want you to seriously consider what you've heard tonight.

2750
04:00:52,020 --> 04:00:59,840
And when someone goes to buy a house, you just don't go in and buy it random and just jump all over it.

2751
04:01:00,240 --> 04:01:04,280
That's the case. I've been in North Raleigh 35 years ago off Six Forks Road.

2752
04:01:04,580 --> 04:01:08,600
One of the worst investments I could ever have made in my life trying to drive up and down there.

2753
04:01:09,120 --> 04:01:17,340
So what I ask you is, if you don't vote no, at least table this so we can have more community discussion.

2754
04:01:17,340 --> 04:01:24,140
So we can do not get angry at each other, but let's have real discussion because you did not discuss with anybody

2755
04:01:24,140 --> 04:01:29,720
You didn't call you didn't call a lot mere you didn't call the neighborhoods around the corner

2756
04:01:29,720 --> 04:01:31,780
Nobody send anything out

2757
04:01:32,340 --> 04:01:32,760
period

2758
04:01:33,860 --> 04:01:34,420
nobody

2759
04:01:35,680 --> 04:01:38,080
So I leave this tonight

2760
04:01:38,080 --> 04:01:44,840
Saying to all my friends not friends people. I've never met before. I've never said only about three people. I know here

2761
04:01:45,420 --> 04:01:45,920
but

2762
04:01:45,920 --> 04:01:50,620
But I think as a whole, we are against this, okay?

2763
04:01:51,020 --> 04:01:51,720
You are not.

2764
04:01:51,880 --> 04:01:52,340
That's great.

2765
04:01:52,540 --> 04:01:52,720
Yes.

2766
04:01:52,840 --> 04:01:53,600
Your opinion.

2767
04:01:54,440 --> 04:01:55,940
So please vote no.

2768
04:01:56,180 --> 04:01:56,720
I thank you.

2769
04:01:56,800 --> 04:01:58,180
May we have a good night's night.

2770
04:01:58,540 --> 04:02:02,020
Everybody goes home safely and take all this into consideration.

2771
04:02:02,460 --> 04:02:03,820
I plead that you vote no.

2772
04:02:04,040 --> 04:02:04,400
Thank you.

2773
04:02:14,390 --> 04:02:15,030
Thank you.

2774
04:02:15,970 --> 04:02:19,270
I might be the last, but I'll be brief.

2775
04:02:20,110 --> 04:02:23,370
Thirty years ago, I moved into Amberwood.

2776
04:02:23,390 --> 04:02:24,050
Give us your name, please.

2777
04:02:24,050 --> 04:02:30,090
Bob Boldrin. Thank you. I live in Lockmere. Thirty years ago I moved into

2778
04:02:30,090 --> 04:02:38,110
Amberwood. Loved it so much. What did I love? I loved the beauty, the beauty of

2779
04:02:38,110 --> 04:02:49,410
Lockmere. Lockmere was to me one of the anchor PUD models of Cary. It had

2780
04:02:49,410 --> 04:02:57,650
covenants. It had covenants, and the covenants made it special, right? It wasn't for everybody,

2781
04:02:58,410 --> 04:03:04,610
but it was the covenants. So what do I hear today? I came here with an open mind, right?

2782
04:03:04,870 --> 04:03:12,270
I'm going to hear, and what do I hear? It's affordable today. It's nice today because

2783
04:03:12,270 --> 04:03:20,050
of the Covenant and Kerry. So for me, it's a vote of this. Is it better under the Covenant

2784
04:03:20,050 --> 04:03:30,390
of Lachmere and Kerry or Raleigh? It's your vote. You think it's better off under Raleigh

2785
04:03:30,850 --> 04:03:39,110
or under you? To me, that's the question you ask yourself. What do you think? I think

2786
04:03:39,110 --> 04:03:45,510
I think the answer is it's better under you and it's better under the covenants of Lochmer.

2787
04:03:46,150 --> 04:03:49,710
Okay? So I urge you to vote no.

2788
04:03:51,800 --> 04:03:53,020
Thank you very much.

2789
04:03:55,360 --> 04:03:56,060
Anyone else?

2790
04:04:10,660 --> 04:04:19,360
Good evening. My name is Kim Zoegner. I've been a resident of Cary for 38 years and absolutely did not expect to speak tonight.

2791
04:04:19,360 --> 04:04:19,480
Right.

2792
04:04:20,220 --> 04:04:26,100
So I have, excuse me if it sounds a little scattered, I

2793
04:04:28,340 --> 04:04:29,860
grew up in a low income family.

2794
04:04:30,580 --> 04:04:41,600
I don't think any of us broke the law or trashed our neighborhood or endangered people who

2795
04:04:41,600 --> 04:04:42,340
lived around us.

2796
04:04:45,480 --> 04:04:51,020
I remember years ago someone in my neighborhood invited a bunch of us over and said we need

2797
04:04:51,020 --> 04:04:51,860
to talk about something.

2798
04:04:51,860 --> 04:04:58,020
we went over and they said, did you hear there's going to be some lower priced apartments going

2799
04:04:58,020 --> 04:05:01,960
up beside our neighborhood. And we're starting a petition.

2800
04:05:04,180 --> 04:05:06,200
And I remember standing up and saying,

2801
04:05:06,500 --> 04:05:07,540
I'm not signing it.

2802
04:05:13,320 --> 04:05:19,540
I've yet to see any crime or any endangerment. The property values in

2803
04:05:19,540 --> 04:05:20,920
carrier skyrocketing.

2804
04:05:23,710 --> 04:05:30,810
I see 1,000 square foot ranch homes that at one point I looked at as a

2805
04:05:30,810 --> 04:05:37,230
going for $900,000 now, and then being torn down to build something bigger.

2806
04:05:43,090 --> 04:05:43,850
I don't know

2807
04:05:43,850 --> 04:05:48,850
all the details about what's going on with this. I haven't had time to research it.

2808
04:05:49,070 --> 04:05:53,710
I do know that some of the research that's been thrown out tonight sounds a little sketchy.

2809
04:05:54,770 --> 04:06:02,330
92% higher than the national average. 100% higher. That seems like something that would

2810
04:06:02,330 --> 04:06:03,290
be newsworthy.

2811
04:06:05,370 --> 04:06:09,710
I'm a teacher. I've taught children who are from low income families

2812
04:06:10,870 --> 04:06:15,670
and are doing their best to get by. And I also know that a lot of people are being pushed

2813
04:06:15,670 --> 04:06:22,250
out around where I taught. We had low income, a low income neighborhood and now we have

2814
04:06:22,250 --> 04:06:28,830
houses that sell for $1.6 million. And the community that was a lot of people

2815
04:06:28,830 --> 04:06:33,310
who had grown up together and knew each other were pushed out and they now do not live and carry.

2816
04:06:37,960 --> 04:06:40,920
But I think the thing that bothers me the most about what I've heard tonight

2817
04:06:41,440 --> 04:06:49,060
and we can debate the legalities, it sounds like Amberwood is a community that's already there

2818
04:06:49,960 --> 04:07:02,280
and that this is going to keep a company from coming in and raising the rates which I'm

2819
04:07:02,280 --> 04:07:06,800
time to research all of this. But I think the thing that bothers me the most tonight,

2820
04:07:07,520 --> 04:07:13,180
and I think that being able to talk as a community is very important. But the thing that bothers

2821
04:07:13,180 --> 04:07:20,440
me the most is I feel like we are equating income with character. And I think that's

2822
04:07:20,440 --> 04:07:20,740
wrong.

2823
04:07:23,860 --> 04:07:30,060
We can't mix. All respect to people that live in Lockmere, it's a beautiful

2824
04:07:30,060 --> 04:07:38,100
community. But there's no possibility of mixed housing there. You can't sell a house in

2825
04:07:38,100 --> 04:07:41,500
Lockmere for $300,000, $200,000.

2826
04:07:46,100 --> 04:07:47,320
Please, please.

2827
04:07:52,050 --> 04:07:55,170
I just wish we would see each other as more

2828
04:07:55,170 --> 04:07:56,010
than our incomes.

2829
04:07:59,200 --> 04:08:00,580
And thank you for your time.

2830
04:08:06,780 --> 04:08:07,760
Next speaker,

2831
04:08:19,250 --> 04:08:19,790
please come.

2832
04:08:25,760 --> 04:08:26,140
Good evening.

2833
04:08:33,040 --> 04:08:33,700
My

2834
04:08:33,700 --> 04:08:38,820
live very near the Emberwood facility and it has been as it's been pointed out

2835
04:08:38,820 --> 04:08:45,120
already it already is a affordable housing and it's been being managed quite

2836
04:08:45,120 --> 04:08:48,440
well and it has been part of the community it has been part of the

2837
04:08:48,440 --> 04:08:56,380
Lockmere and it doesn't need to change. I also grew up in a family that did not

2838
04:08:56,380 --> 04:09:00,900
have a lot of money did not have a nice house when I grew up and I had to

2839
04:09:00,900 --> 04:09:08,100
work hard, pay my taxes, and work really hard to get a job in Cary. Sometimes you just have

2840
04:09:08,100 --> 04:09:17,780
to work really hard, pay your taxes, and you get a place like Cary to live. I'm sorry that

2841
04:09:17,780 --> 04:09:25,140
not everybody can afford to live here. There are other places that are cheaper. There are

2842
04:09:25,140 --> 04:09:31,700
so many places to live, not that far away. It doesn't need to be right next to in

2843
04:09:31,700 --> 04:09:36,220
Amberwood and it doesn't need to change. It is already unaffordable. I encourage you

2844
04:09:36,220 --> 04:09:39,440
to vote no for this. Thank you.

2845
04:09:44,540 --> 04:09:49,900
Anyone else for this public hearing? Going once, going twice.

2846
04:10:07,270 --> 04:10:11,110
I was not planning to speak tonight and I'm not going to talk long. My name is Elizabeth

2847
04:10:11,110 --> 04:10:16,750
a slight, I go by Libby, live in Lockmere, been there almost 40 years. You guys have all

2848
04:10:16,750 --> 04:10:23,530
gotten my emails. The one thing that I wanted to mention that hasn't even been mentioned

2849
04:10:23,530 --> 04:10:33,470
tonight is none of us are not in favor of low and mid-income housing. Amberwood's

2850
04:10:33,470 --> 04:10:40,670
already there. We love it. What we are opposed to is you giving that to the Raleigh Housing

2851
04:10:41,430 --> 04:10:53,870
Now, if we can get a bond referendum to put a $68 million park in downtown Cary, why can't

2852
04:10:53,870 --> 04:10:55,890
we do that for Amberwood?

2853
04:10:56,310 --> 04:10:58,390
We know that they're trying to sell it.

2854
04:10:58,490 --> 04:11:00,030
We know that the owner wants to sell it.

2855
04:11:00,670 --> 04:11:01,010
Fine.

2856
04:11:01,910 --> 04:11:04,310
Let's keep it affordable, but let's keep it Cary.

2857
04:11:04,750 --> 04:11:05,670
Make this happen.

2858
04:11:06,070 --> 04:11:06,990
You should do this.

2859
04:11:07,830 --> 04:11:09,070
Put the bond forward.

2860
04:11:09,070 --> 04:11:11,190
You know we'll vote yes for it.

2861
04:11:12,530 --> 04:11:15,890
Don't let Raleigh come in and ruin it.

2862
04:11:17,090 --> 04:11:21,870
Don't let them, I'm sure those people are really nice,

2863
04:11:22,170 --> 04:11:26,690
but just from what I've heard, just the fact that Raleigh doesn't have,

2864
04:11:27,370 --> 04:11:31,110
Kerry doesn't have any control over it once it's gone, big mistake.

2865
04:11:31,670 --> 04:11:33,250
That's all I'm going to say. Thank you very much.

2866
04:11:38,560 --> 04:11:40,680
Anyone else for the public hearing?

2867
04:11:42,020 --> 04:11:53,020
Anyone else? Okay, I'll close the public hearing. I'll start off with my comments. I'll be very

2868
04:11:53,020 --> 04:11:53,600
brief.

2869
04:11:55,960 --> 04:11:58,080
Sure. Would you be alright with that? Yeah.

2870
04:12:00,240 --> 04:12:03,940
Ms. Wheelahan and maybe the RHA, I have

2871
04:12:03,940 --> 04:12:10,700
a number of questions that the public brought up. I'm hoping someone can answer them.

2872
04:12:21,140 --> 04:12:32,160
Can you address maybe the history of this property and, you know, we've heard there's

2873
04:12:32,520 --> 04:12:35,160
some money that's put down, there's money that's coming.

2874
04:12:35,780 --> 04:12:42,820
We've also heard about RHA being only in Raleigh, which you have shared with us.

2875
04:12:42,920 --> 04:12:44,860
Can you give us a little bit more information about that?

2876
04:12:44,860 --> 04:12:48,740
And also, the Covenant, some of the questions that we've heard.

2877
04:12:48,860 --> 04:12:50,280
Can you address some of those?

2878
04:12:54,640 --> 04:12:55,720
Good evening.

2879
04:12:57,040 --> 04:12:58,320
Can you introduce yourself?

2880
04:12:58,540 --> 04:12:59,440
My name is Jason Morrow.

2881
04:12:59,680 --> 04:13:02,260
I'm the Director of Acquisitions and Strategic Partnerships

2882
04:13:02,260 --> 04:13:03,640
for the Raleigh Housing Authority.

2883
04:13:04,540 --> 04:13:07,560
And I'm the prime point person responsible for this acquisition.

2884
04:13:08,840 --> 04:13:10,160
A little bit of history.

2885
04:13:10,700 --> 04:13:13,120
The Housing Authority has a strategic plan

2886
04:13:13,120 --> 04:13:16,180
which provides a background for our actions,

2887
04:13:16,180 --> 04:13:17,940
which is authorized by our board.

2888
04:13:18,760 --> 04:13:21,500
One part of the strategic plan is to preserve

2889
04:13:21,500 --> 04:13:23,900
affordable housing where we can and when we can.

2890
04:13:24,780 --> 04:13:28,500
In this instance, we had made an offer

2891
04:13:28,500 --> 04:13:31,440
on some, an acquisition in Raleigh.

2892
04:13:32,140 --> 04:13:34,360
That acquisition was not accepted.

2893
04:13:35,020 --> 04:13:39,000
At the same time, the property in Amberwood

2894
04:13:39,000 --> 04:13:39,840
was put up for sale.

2895
04:13:40,200 --> 04:13:42,480
We were contacted by brokers to participate.

2896
04:13:42,480 --> 04:13:50,200
We put in an offer, a competitive offer with a wide variety of commercial real estate investment

2897
04:13:50,200 --> 04:13:59,080
companies and ultimately we were selected as the winning offer and at that time we then

2898
04:13:59,080 --> 04:14:06,780
negotiated basically an agreement for access to take a look at the property that triggered

2899
04:14:06,780 --> 04:14:11,720
the timeline and so the timeline that has been addressed tonight and the reasons why

2900
04:14:11,720 --> 04:14:18,460
of the particular timing that it is, from our perspective was driven by the sales contract

2901
04:14:18,460 --> 04:14:25,780
and the market process for these properties. And in general, once the agreement is made

2902
04:14:25,780 --> 04:14:31,760
and offers accepted, typically those terms are 30 days due diligence period, which is

2903
04:14:31,760 --> 04:14:37,580
a period for us to take a look at the property without that money becoming non-reimbursable,

2904
04:14:37,580 --> 04:14:42,680
Meaning the earnest monies that we would put down similar to the same thing that you would do for your house

2905
04:14:46,120 --> 04:14:47,760
So the earnest money

2906
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:02,240
We'll walk everyone through maybe just the timeline.

2907
04:15:03,220 --> 04:15:05,180
I can't ask that question, right?

2908
04:15:06,100 --> 04:15:07,220
He's trying to.

2909
04:15:07,660 --> 04:15:14,120
So the access agreement, there are two parts basically of a purchase and sale agreement.

2910
04:15:14,840 --> 04:15:21,980
One part is an access agreement which provides the buyer of the property an opportunity to do diligence on that property,

2911
04:15:22,020 --> 04:15:26,500
meaning to enter the grounds, to take a look at the physical elements,

2912
04:15:26,500 --> 04:15:31,800
to review some of the documents have been provided at that time prior to the full fulfillment

2913
04:15:31,800 --> 04:15:33,000
of those documents set.

2914
04:15:33,180 --> 04:15:38,420
During that time, there's a negotiation over the actual purchase and sale agreement.

2915
04:15:38,860 --> 04:15:44,480
So these work at parallel times, but the actual timeline is triggered by the access

2916
04:15:44,480 --> 04:15:44,960
agreement.

2917
04:15:45,200 --> 04:15:49,580
And the access agreement, I believe, was signed on the 12th of June or somewhere

2918
04:15:49,580 --> 04:15:50,780
very close to that date.

2919
04:15:50,780 --> 04:15:59,300
That triggers basically a 30-day due diligence period and then a 15-day extension period which was part of that sales contract.

2920
04:15:59,880 --> 04:16:07,260
That is why that takes us to in terms of our timeline that's driving this process to the 27th.

2921
04:16:07,580 --> 04:16:15,960
That is the decision date by which we need to make a decision as a buyer whether or not we want to move forward with this acquisition and purchase

2922
04:16:15,960 --> 04:16:19,240
for whether or not we decline to move forward.

2923
04:16:20,040 --> 04:16:24,420
As a housing authority and as a fiduciary of public monies,

2924
04:16:24,740 --> 04:16:29,120
we need to be very certain at that point in time that we can move forward.

2925
04:16:29,900 --> 04:16:32,520
At that time, should we choose to move forward,

2926
04:16:32,700 --> 04:16:37,540
we then have a closing period process, which is typically 30 to 60 days.

2927
04:16:38,060 --> 04:16:41,040
In our sales contract, we have a 30-day process,

2928
04:16:41,040 --> 04:16:47,100
And then we have another 30-day extension with a very sizable deposit that's associated with it.

2929
04:16:47,400 --> 04:16:52,240
And so that explains basically the timeline that brought us to today.

2930
04:16:53,080 --> 04:16:55,620
And, you know, it's already been noted why we're here today.

2931
04:16:56,140 --> 04:17:02,680
But we need to ensure that we're compliant with the law prior to making that decision.

2932
04:17:03,940 --> 04:17:08,620
And can you speak to the Covenant's questions by the public?

2933
04:17:10,160 --> 04:17:12,880
I have found that discussion to be very interesting today.

2934
04:17:13,840 --> 04:17:18,900
I haven't, myself, had very deep conversations with legal counsel, so the first thing I want

2935
04:17:18,900 --> 04:17:23,800
to suggest is that we haven't had legal counsel conversation in regards to the Covenant.

2936
04:17:24,460 --> 04:17:30,500
From my perspective, there's no expectation or no reason why the Housing Authority and

2937
04:17:30,500 --> 04:17:34,560
in particular Instrumentality that were questions about capital area developments

2938
04:17:34,560 --> 04:17:39,120
incident instrumentality, housing authorities use what we call instrumentalities, which

2939
04:17:39,120 --> 04:17:46,740
are non-profit entities to own the properties in which we engage in. And in this instance,

2940
04:17:47,200 --> 04:17:52,760
this would be CAD as a participating owner, which is basically otherwise known as a sister

2941
04:17:52,760 --> 04:17:58,880
company or instrumentality. There's no reason to believe that the instrumentality would

2942
04:17:58,880 --> 04:18:06,300
not please please let him there would be no reason to believe oh can you speak a

2943
04:18:06,300 --> 04:18:10,040
bit a bit more into the mic there there would be no reason from our

2944
04:18:10,040 --> 04:18:14,540
perspective to believe that we would not have to adhere to the covenants of

2945
04:18:15,100 --> 04:18:20,800
amberwood so and nor would nor would we be disinclined to not agree to so

2946
04:18:20,800 --> 04:18:23,480
miss Glover do you have any information that would help on that

2947
04:18:23,480 --> 04:18:27,260
question yes I too have not done deep research on this but from my

2948
04:18:27,260 --> 04:18:29,500
understanding from

2949
04:18:33,470 --> 04:18:36,950
my understanding in general when you're buying property in

2950
04:18:36,950 --> 04:18:39,830
that neighborhood you would be subject to any covenants that the property is

2951
04:18:39,830 --> 04:18:42,690
currently subject to but they would need to confirm that with their own legal

2952
04:18:42,690 --> 04:18:54,770
counsel not the towns. Thank you. Other questions? I have some question to our town

2953
04:18:54,770 --> 04:19:04,550
attorney is the procedure like RHA no matter what kind of authorities come to

2954
04:19:04,550 --> 04:19:12,990
carry as to as for a resolution what is the procedure for that and I think we

2955
04:19:12,990 --> 04:19:19,970
need to let the public know we are compliance with the procedure. That's

2956
04:19:19,970 --> 04:19:23,470
correct. State law as Ms. Wilhelm mentioned in her presentation,

2957
04:19:23,470 --> 04:19:25,930
Governs all actions of a housing authority.

2958
04:19:26,610 --> 04:19:34,030
And a housing authority created in one city that desires to operate in an adjacent city must come to that city.

2959
04:19:34,130 --> 04:19:41,410
So in this case, carry and ask for a resolution approving their operation in the city of carry.

2960
04:19:41,650 --> 04:19:42,870
So that's what they have done.

2961
04:19:43,390 --> 04:19:44,790
They came to carry.

2962
04:19:45,530 --> 04:19:47,750
And again, they've explained their timeframe.

2963
04:19:48,390 --> 04:19:54,110
We are required under state law to provide the public hearing notice, which we did in compliance with law.

2964
04:19:54,270 --> 04:19:55,790
And then it's before you tonight.

2965
04:19:57,640 --> 04:19:58,780
Other questions?

2966
04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:01,380
Please, please.

2967
04:20:02,480 --> 04:20:03,580
Other questions?

2968
04:20:08,760 --> 04:20:09,360
Other questions?

2969
04:20:11,440 --> 04:20:13,120
Who will the management company be?

2970
04:20:13,120 --> 04:20:15,080
This is council deliberation. Thank you.

2971
04:20:15,840 --> 04:20:17,680
Who will the management company be?

2972
04:20:17,680 --> 04:20:22,860
Our intention is the management company will be the same management company that's currently there which is gray star

2973
04:20:24,910 --> 04:20:25,950
other

2974
04:20:27,250 --> 04:20:27,770
Can

2975
04:20:29,230 --> 04:20:35,770
Did I'm not sure everybody heard you can you say that a little bit louder the management company our intention is for it to

2976
04:20:35,770 --> 04:20:36,550
remain the same

2977
04:20:39,040 --> 04:20:45,360
Any other questions and the reason I use the word intention is because we're still in negotiation of a contract

2978
04:20:45,360 --> 04:20:51,440
We haven't signed we haven't signed a contract and therefore we can't do that's fair. We can't hold you to it

2979
04:20:57,880 --> 04:21:08,440
I didn't hear, Lisa, I didn't hear you say the specifics of the questions I had for staff

2980
04:21:08,440 --> 04:21:14,240
were about the language of the public notice, the timing, the how and where it was distributed.

2981
04:21:14,700 --> 04:21:16,720
I don't know who would be best to answer.

2982
04:21:16,980 --> 04:21:20,020
And we complied with state law in preparing the notice and publishing it.

2983
04:21:20,400 --> 04:21:25,420
Because Lisa, just to clarify, my understanding is, you know, I know that language of

2984
04:21:25,420 --> 04:21:31,840
intends to adopt drew some attention, but that's the statutory language.

2985
04:21:32,420 --> 04:21:35,940
That's the language that informs the public of what your action may be.

2986
04:21:36,140 --> 04:21:39,840
There are, of course, many different ways you could prepare a public notice, and that's

2987
04:21:39,840 --> 04:21:40,620
how that one was prepared.

2988
04:21:41,020 --> 04:21:41,040
Yeah.

2989
04:21:41,080 --> 04:21:42,660
And the timeline was appropriate.

2990
04:21:42,940 --> 04:21:43,940
I looked it all up also.

2991
04:21:44,260 --> 04:21:51,980
And I want to remind everyone that just Tuesday our Mayor Pratam Bhush proposed

2992
04:21:51,980 --> 04:21:59,860
to take this proposal out of today's agenda and we did a vote on this past

2993
04:21:59,860 --> 04:22:07,540
Tuesday that was 3-2-3 and today we open the public speaks out, public hearing

2994
04:22:07,540 --> 04:22:14,600
just we are listening to everyone's opinion and I know this is by law we

2995
04:22:14,600 --> 04:22:20,580
need to listen to everyone's opinion and I wish everyone will be

2996
04:22:20,580 --> 04:22:26,880
respectful to each other because this is in discussion and we are listening to

2997
04:22:26,880 --> 04:22:38,460
everyone same as RHA we respect everyone's opinion and we haven't we had the

2998
04:22:38,460 --> 04:22:46,680
conversation our staff on Tuesday if you please let me talk for the council

2999
04:22:46,680 --> 04:22:54,800
meeting, right? We had a conversation with the Lochneer HOA this Tuesday noon with our

3000
04:22:54,800 --> 04:23:02,060
staff and our assistant town manager. We had a very good conversation and I appreciate

3001
04:23:02,060 --> 04:23:08,780
Lochneer HOA provide enough information with us and we listened a lot.

3002
04:23:11,030 --> 04:23:12,630
We haven't made

3003
04:23:12,630 --> 04:23:20,550
any decision at that time. So today, the council meeting is for the decision. So our council

3004
04:23:21,190 --> 04:23:29,430
hasn't had any decision on this proposal. And on Wednesday, we had a conversation with

3005
04:23:29,430 --> 04:23:36,430
RHA meeting with most of our council members to deliver all the questions from Lochmere

3006
04:23:36,430 --> 04:23:44,850
residents and today during the public hearing we have heard every question you

3007
04:23:44,850 --> 04:23:53,350
raised today before the council meeting and I think RHA already received all the

3008
04:23:53,350 --> 04:24:01,570
concerns from the residents and also from the council. I appreciate everyone's

3009
04:24:01,570 --> 04:24:08,890
respectful opinions, and especially there are children in front of the camera in our

3010
04:24:09,220 --> 04:24:10,030
council meeting.

3011
04:24:10,390 --> 04:24:19,570
I really appreciate your word or language to be the role model of the future adults

3012
04:24:19,570 --> 04:24:20,270
of Cary.

3013
04:24:20,990 --> 04:24:30,210
So let's continue the conversation, but please respect the applicant, the council, and

3014
04:24:30,210 --> 04:24:31,250
And everyone here.

3015
04:24:31,850 --> 04:24:32,310
Thank you.

3016
04:24:32,510 --> 04:24:33,230
Thank you, Ms. Huang.

3017
04:24:34,500 --> 04:24:38,030
So are there any other questions for RHA?

3018
04:24:39,050 --> 04:24:39,930
Thank you, gentlemen.

3019
04:24:40,970 --> 04:24:42,650
Any questions for Ms. Wilhelm?

3020
04:24:44,810 --> 04:24:45,130
Okay.

3021
04:24:45,770 --> 04:24:48,290
So I'll give my comments very briefly.

3022
04:24:49,930 --> 04:24:51,490
There's a lot of information.

3023
04:24:52,490 --> 04:24:54,330
Unfortunately, some things were true.

3024
04:24:54,550 --> 04:24:55,630
Some things were not true.

3025
04:24:56,090 --> 04:24:57,930
But I'll give my perspective.

3026
04:24:59,330 --> 04:25:01,150
I do have a vested interest.

3027
04:25:01,150 --> 04:25:03,730
I live less than a quarter mile from there.

3028
04:25:04,750 --> 04:25:10,110
I've lived in Cary since 1958, so I've been here a long time.

3029
04:25:11,430 --> 04:25:16,810
I can talk to things that I thought were interesting, the lost revenue,

3030
04:25:17,630 --> 04:25:24,790
and if the council votes to approve this, I would ask that we subtract that from the 1%

3031
04:25:24,790 --> 04:25:27,190
that we give to affordable housing every year.

3032
04:25:27,190 --> 04:25:29,950
as counted as expenditures toward affordable housing.

3033
04:25:30,170 --> 04:25:32,070
I would ask counts to consider that.

3034
04:25:32,570 --> 04:25:35,370
But my biggest problem with this whole thing

3035
04:25:35,370 --> 04:25:36,990
is how it's been handled.

3036
04:25:37,910 --> 04:25:41,690
I found out somewhere around July 10th,

3037
04:25:41,750 --> 04:25:44,810
I got a staff report on July 13th

3038
04:25:44,810 --> 04:25:47,270
and fielded dozens of emails,

3039
04:25:47,690 --> 04:25:50,870
trying to provide them with the staff report

3040
04:25:50,870 --> 04:25:52,290
so they would have information.

3041
04:25:52,290 --> 04:26:07,030
But the problem for me is if I am making a decision and I can't give the public enough information where they understand all the details of it, then I shouldn't be defending that decision.

3042
04:26:07,670 --> 04:26:18,010
So I cannot support that, and I realize we might be missing a grand opportunity, but

3043
04:26:18,710 --> 04:26:24,110
we have got to, in the future, if you want to work with the Kerry Council, you have to

3044
04:26:24,110 --> 04:26:25,190
work with the public first.

3045
04:26:25,790 --> 04:26:26,850
They are our bosses.

3046
04:26:27,430 --> 04:26:30,890
They are the ones that are in charge, and they have to understand what we're trying

3047
04:26:30,890 --> 04:26:31,290
to do.

3048
04:26:31,670 --> 04:26:34,390
And if they don't, then we can't move forward with it.

3049
04:26:34,390 --> 04:26:38,730
So those are my thoughts and I'll let my council colleagues speak next.

3050
04:26:45,390 --> 04:26:46,470
Can I make a motion?

3051
04:26:48,410 --> 04:26:48,670
Sure.

3052
04:26:49,030 --> 04:26:52,470
No, I have lots of things to say. I just wanted to defer to you as well.

3053
04:26:52,470 --> 04:27:06,530
Oh, I, before, after mayor, I completely agree with mayor because the timing to rush and I, we had meetings on Tuesday, Wednesday,

3054
04:27:06,530 --> 04:27:13,070
day and we have phone calls with all around partners and that makes me feel not because

3055
04:27:13,070 --> 04:27:20,170
of today's public hearing, the angers here, just because I had the procedure and everything,

3056
04:27:20,570 --> 04:27:25,350
the information is not enough for me to support this proposal.

3057
04:27:29,550 --> 04:27:35,750
But during our meeting with Lockmere HOA board members, we all agree that affordable

3058
04:27:35,750 --> 04:27:43,530
affordable housing is important for the carry residents, so it's not about affordable housing,

3059
04:27:43,750 --> 04:27:48,630
it's about the procedure to make decision on this specific proposal.

3060
04:27:49,490 --> 04:27:51,330
That's my comments.

3061
04:27:52,830 --> 04:27:58,150
So first of all, I want to thank all of you for joining tonight, because this is real

3062
04:27:58,150 --> 04:28:00,210
democracy where we hear both sides.

3063
04:28:00,910 --> 04:28:02,690
You know, we all are fighting for the same thing.

3064
04:28:02,690 --> 04:28:05,510
I really appreciate what Libby said in the end.

3065
04:28:05,870 --> 04:28:10,210
You kind of summed up everybody that we are not fighting against each other.

3066
04:28:10,370 --> 04:28:16,050
It's not a topic about affordable housing, whether we want this in carry or not.

3067
04:28:16,450 --> 04:28:20,670
This council has been very, very responsive when it comes to affordable housing.

3068
04:28:20,670 --> 04:28:25,850
We have gone above and beyond what we could do in the budget.

3069
04:28:25,990 --> 04:28:30,290
We still move the needle forward for affordable housing and we will continue to do that

3070
04:28:30,290 --> 04:28:30,910
in future.

3071
04:28:30,910 --> 04:28:41,110
What I understand from my very brief conversation with RHA was that they will increase the rent.

3072
04:28:42,060 --> 04:28:52,510
So it is not going to stay where it is today, but it will be at 51% AMI for 60%, 80% of

3073
04:28:52,510 --> 04:28:57,510
the units and about 60% for 10% units.

3074
04:28:57,510 --> 04:29:00,450
So, you know, I mean, if you think about this,

3075
04:29:00,550 --> 04:29:02,070
the rent is still going up.

3076
04:29:02,570 --> 04:29:04,870
It's not, at least that's my understanding.

3077
04:29:05,490 --> 04:29:09,810
And the reason why I understand the timing issue here

3078
04:29:09,810 --> 04:29:12,970
because I agree that we didn't have enough time

3079
04:29:12,970 --> 04:29:14,350
to research everything.

3080
04:29:14,830 --> 04:29:17,170
Everything is so rushed from our side

3081
04:29:17,170 --> 04:29:19,550
that we don't feel comfortable.

3082
04:29:19,690 --> 04:29:21,670
I don't feel comfortable at this point

3083
04:29:23,310 --> 04:29:26,070
saying that I can wait this side or that side.

3084
04:29:26,070 --> 04:29:30,170
and so I voted what Councilwoman Bella Wong just said.

3085
04:29:30,710 --> 04:29:34,850
I voted in favor of, you know, tabling this for now

3086
04:29:34,850 --> 04:29:38,870
so that we can take some time and understand both perspectives

3087
04:29:38,870 --> 04:29:41,650
and come up with a plan which is best for care residents.

3088
04:29:43,170 --> 04:29:45,630
I just feel like I don't want to be rushed.

3089
04:29:46,150 --> 04:29:49,110
And in the spirit of exactly what we discussed today,

3090
04:29:49,790 --> 04:29:52,590
and some of my colleagues may not agree with me,

3091
04:29:52,870 --> 04:29:54,410
but this is just my perspective

3092
04:29:54,410 --> 04:29:59,850
And I'm just one boat here in the spirit of what the findings of the state auditors are. I don't feel

3093
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:04,780
Comfortable at this point in rushing into any decision, especially which is going to impact

3094
04:30:04,780 --> 04:30:11,240
Kerry in a very, very long term. And I am not looking at this whether I'm voting in favour

3095
04:30:11,240 --> 04:30:16,660
of affordable housing or voting against affordable housing. We want affordable housing and these

3096
04:30:16,660 --> 04:30:22,500
are affordable housing units. I actually like the suggestion, even though that is a dream,

3097
04:30:22,500 --> 04:30:30,000
build our own housing authority and, you know, put a bond by this property and managed by Kerry.

3098
04:30:30,520 --> 04:30:36,800
Why should we let Raleigh take this property and run for us?

3099
04:30:37,180 --> 04:30:38,400
That's just my opinion, though.

3100
04:30:39,460 --> 04:30:42,180
Other comments, thoughts, please.

3101
04:30:42,740 --> 04:30:43,820
Does it matter? Go ahead.

3102
04:30:46,880 --> 04:30:52,900
I didn't feel that I had enough time to, I couldn't have made a decision on Tuesday.

3103
04:30:53,980 --> 04:31:01,900
I've done a lot of research, talked to a lot of people since then, and I do believe I left

3104
04:31:01,900 --> 04:31:06,220
room for any new information that I gained tonight, and I didn't gain any new information,

3105
04:31:06,400 --> 04:31:11,580
and I do believe I have enough information to vote tonight.

3106
04:31:14,240 --> 04:31:21,300
I, thanks to RHA for all they do to help contribute to affordable housing, thanks to all of the

3107
04:31:21,300 --> 04:31:26,340
diverse opinions that are here, it takes a lot to get out and speak in front of people.

3108
04:31:27,940 --> 04:31:30,360
Some are speaking for it, some are speaking against it.

3109
04:31:30,920 --> 04:31:33,880
We obviously cannot vote in a way to agree with everyone.

3110
04:31:34,500 --> 04:31:36,720
And I respect my colleagues' views as well.

3111
04:31:37,920 --> 04:31:41,980
I understand that people are upset about the misuse of funds in the town.

3112
04:31:43,300 --> 04:31:45,660
I'm sorry that we did not provide enough oversight.

3113
04:31:46,420 --> 04:31:48,000
We are learning and we will do better.

3114
04:31:48,840 --> 04:31:50,960
It will take time to earn trust.

3115
04:31:52,740 --> 04:31:55,740
I understand the concerns about the loss of tax revenue.

3116
04:31:59,720 --> 04:32:04,640
And perhaps I can get into that more, but I have lots of other things to say.

3117
04:32:05,640 --> 04:32:10,540
I've never been as validated as I am tonight about my choice to run for office.

3118
04:32:12,020 --> 04:32:15,340
I know that everyone does not respect.

3119
04:32:15,780 --> 04:32:21,460
I believe you all respect the positions that we hold, but I think it's fair to say some

3120
04:32:21,460 --> 04:32:26,620
of you do not respect me and my role currently as council member.

3121
04:32:27,480 --> 04:32:28,880
That is okay.

3122
04:32:29,260 --> 04:32:31,060
That is your opinion and that is fair.

3123
04:32:31,060 --> 04:32:34,480
Everyone's opinion is right for them.

3124
04:32:36,780 --> 04:32:39,860
I care deeply about affordable housing.

3125
04:32:41,540 --> 04:32:47,660
I serve as a council member and a teacher to families who receive government assistance,

3126
04:32:48,540 --> 04:32:50,000
including subsidized housing.

3127
04:32:51,060 --> 04:32:58,400
I work with people who, in public education, that receive government assistance.

3128
04:32:59,200 --> 04:33:05,600
I am disappointed by some misinformation that I've heard over the last week.

3129
04:33:06,600 --> 04:33:12,960
I am disappointed especially about a narrative that those receiving a voucher to help offset

3130
04:33:12,960 --> 04:33:19,180
calls for housing may be associated with crime and using drugs.

3131
04:33:20,750 --> 04:33:21,340
It's okay.

3132
04:33:21,920 --> 04:33:22,960
You're entitled to your opinion.

3133
04:33:24,420 --> 04:33:32,280
I know that some people who live in subsidized housing may use drugs and they may commit crimes,

3134
04:33:32,620 --> 04:33:37,480
but so do other people who live in Cary and other places.

3135
04:33:39,600 --> 04:33:45,820
I have taught children who lived in McDougal Terrace also because of that reference earlier.

3136
04:33:46,040 --> 04:33:48,380
I worked in Durham before I worked in Wake County Public Schools.

3137
04:33:48,380 --> 04:33:59,040
These are humans that deserve respect and we can address them on an individual basis instead of making sweeping statements.

3138
04:34:00,080 --> 04:34:05,920
I have spent hours researching this and I will make the best decision that I can.

3139
04:34:07,240 --> 04:34:13,280
And if I don't have all the information, then I own that as well.

3140
04:34:13,280 --> 04:34:17,320
Now, I have searched the Lockmere website,

3141
04:34:19,990 --> 04:34:24,250
and I may not have understood, but what I see

3142
04:34:25,330 --> 04:34:28,310
is that there are

3143
04:34:30,680 --> 04:34:38,640
condos, townhouses, and single-family homes under the Lockmere Master Association.

3144
04:34:40,640 --> 04:34:48,860
And I can't find anything, the map of Lockmere on Lockmere's website when I compare it to

3145
04:34:48,860 --> 04:34:57,740
where Amberwood at Lockmere is, if I have incomplete information, I own that.

3146
04:34:58,340 --> 04:34:59,700
I have not been able to find it.

3147
04:34:59,700 --> 04:35:10,660
I am not making my decision tonight based on the statements that they don't need renovations

3148
04:35:10,660 --> 04:35:11,260
or whatever.

3149
04:35:11,880 --> 04:35:18,200
I'm making my decision based on the fact about having naturally occurring affordable housing

3150
04:35:18,200 --> 04:35:29,120
where families live with the average area median income currently is 52%.

3151
04:35:29,120 --> 04:35:34,940
They are already low and moderate income individuals and families.

3152
04:35:36,020 --> 04:35:38,300
I am concerned about their displacement.

3153
04:35:38,860 --> 04:35:46,300
I see an opportunity for someone to come in and help keep them from being displaced.

3154
04:35:46,300 --> 04:35:51,180
I don't have a crystal ball. I am not making any promises.

3155
04:35:52,100 --> 04:36:02,120
I believe that the best vote for me tonight is to go forward with it, is to vote yes for the resolution.

3156
04:36:04,340 --> 04:36:07,020
I respect your opinion, even when you boo me.

3157
04:36:12,780 --> 04:36:14,340
Please, please.

3158
04:36:17,580 --> 04:36:23,660
I understand the concern that the person raised about certain groups not being able to access subsidized housing.

3159
04:36:23,660 --> 04:36:24,980
saying I think I saw you over here.

3160
04:36:25,200 --> 04:36:27,540
I share those concerns also.

3161
04:36:27,840 --> 04:36:32,020
I do believe the fact that this property is being sold

3162
04:36:32,770 --> 04:36:35,500
makes individuals vulnerable,

3163
04:36:36,840 --> 04:36:40,440
and I hope we can do better at a federal level

3164
04:36:40,440 --> 04:36:41,740
to help with those policies.

3165
04:36:43,500 --> 04:36:45,800
My view about the tax loss.

3166
04:36:46,620 --> 04:36:49,680
Ladies and gentlemen, please let us deliberate.

3167
04:36:50,140 --> 04:36:50,560
Please.

3168
04:36:51,080 --> 04:36:52,120
We received emails.

3169
04:36:52,120 --> 04:36:54,120
There are many hours listening to you, please.

3170
04:36:56,120 --> 04:37:00,760
We received emails and people spoke tonight about the tax loss and there was one particular

3171
04:37:00,760 --> 04:37:03,280
email that I remember that referred to it as tax loss.

3172
04:37:04,000 --> 04:37:12,160
And I understand that, yes, there will be an effect where I believe it's 237,000

3173
04:37:12,500 --> 04:37:13,360
for this year.

3174
04:37:13,520 --> 04:37:18,800
We would not be collecting and then, of course, that would most likely and could

3175
04:37:18,800 --> 04:37:21,380
possibly increase year to year and it's a 30-year commitment.

3176
04:37:21,940 --> 04:37:27,860
We, from the time that I've been on council for the two and a half years, we've put millions

3177
04:37:27,860 --> 04:37:30,000
of dollars into affordable housing every year.

3178
04:37:30,720 --> 04:37:34,800
We would definitely need a conversation, but I'd be open to looking at the idea that

3179
04:37:34,800 --> 04:37:38,120
the mayor had about however much money we want to spend.

3180
04:37:38,340 --> 04:37:40,400
We could potentially deduct this out.

3181
04:37:41,180 --> 04:37:47,040
This is, in my opinion, not a tax loss but an investment.

3182
04:37:47,040 --> 04:37:57,680
Instead of collecting money and putting it into affordable housing, we are subsidizing a small, tiny bit of what could be a great benefit to carry.

3183
04:37:58,020 --> 04:38:00,520
And I know we have some disagreement on that. That is okay.

3184
04:38:05,890 --> 04:38:16,490
No housing when a position opens in an apartment. There is never a promise of whether people in carry are going to get that.

3185
04:38:16,490 --> 04:38:19,770
or whether it's from another municipality, this will be no different.

3186
04:38:23,800 --> 04:38:29,160
I hope that housing authorities continue to want to come to carry.

3187
04:38:30,200 --> 04:38:37,480
I believe this is our opportunity, and if this turns out to be a major mistake, I will own that.

3188
04:38:38,620 --> 04:38:40,080
Please, please.

3189
04:38:40,480 --> 04:38:43,580
Ladies and gentlemen, please allow civil discourse.

3190
04:38:43,920 --> 04:38:45,120
Please, I'm begging you.

3191
04:38:45,440 --> 04:38:46,300
Let her finish.

3192
04:38:46,300 --> 04:38:49,540
then we can take a vote, okay?

3193
04:38:49,740 --> 04:38:52,840
We don't know yet if this will pass or not.

3194
04:38:53,140 --> 04:38:55,400
Right now, you can see that we are divided

3195
04:38:55,400 --> 04:38:57,880
and that is okay because just like you all,

3196
04:38:58,020 --> 04:38:59,480
we have different opinions

3197
04:39:00,240 --> 04:39:02,220
and we have different comfort levels with things.

3198
04:39:02,780 --> 04:39:07,780
But if it passes, this is Raleigh Housing Authority's

3199
04:39:07,780 --> 04:39:10,120
first opportunity outside of Raleigh.

3200
04:39:10,280 --> 04:39:12,980
Every new thing that starts has a first.

3201
04:39:13,500 --> 04:39:15,360
I don't believe they're predatory

3202
04:39:15,360 --> 04:39:19,680
and coming to Cary, but if I'm wrong, I will own my mistake.

3203
04:39:22,500 --> 04:39:23,260
Please,

3204
04:39:25,790 --> 04:39:29,250
ladies and gentlemen, please let us finish.

3205
04:39:30,090 --> 04:39:39,870
But I can easily justify the investment of taking this tax exemption and putting it into affordable housing.

3206
04:39:40,530 --> 04:39:48,410
There are multiple entities in Cary that already exist as a tax-exempt entities.

3207
04:39:48,410 --> 04:39:56,320
This is not a first and I'm happy to see what my colleagues say.

3208
04:39:57,360 --> 04:39:59,220
Who would like to go next?

3209
04:39:59,800 --> 04:40:07,740
I'm happy to because while I came to a very different conclusion, I do agree with much of what you just said

3210
04:40:07,740 --> 04:40:13,640
and thank you for the fortitude to sit and say it all.

3211
04:40:13,860 --> 04:40:14,540
I appreciate that.

3212
04:40:14,540 --> 04:40:23,040
I do particularly feel strongly that preserving naturally occurring affordable housing is

3213
04:40:23,040 --> 04:40:28,440
something that is well worth our time and energy, and it's just so difficult to do.

3214
04:40:28,800 --> 04:40:31,460
It's probably one of the most difficult things to do.

3215
04:40:32,500 --> 04:40:41,440
You know, I've yet to hear any better proposal than what was described by the report and

3216
04:40:41,440 --> 04:40:51,080
materials and what the leaders of the housing authority described where what their intention

3217
04:40:51,080 --> 04:40:56,000
is, and I believe this to be right and true, I believe their intention is to preserve that

3218
04:40:56,000 --> 04:40:57,840
naturally occurring affordable housing.

3219
04:40:58,500 --> 04:40:59,740
And I do support that.

3220
04:40:59,860 --> 04:41:04,440
I live in, you know, 20 years in the most affordable area of Cary, which has become

3221
04:41:04,960 --> 04:41:07,240
wildly unaffordable very quickly here downtown.

3222
04:41:07,240 --> 04:41:13,280
town. So, you know, it's, as every time I see an affordable house torn down, my heart,

3223
04:41:13,480 --> 04:41:21,840
it breaks. And I do want to be a part of the solution. And ideas like this, I would welcome

3224
04:41:21,840 --> 04:41:27,760
a collaboration. I spoke to a member of the Raleigh Council today shortly before

3225
04:41:27,760 --> 04:41:33,220
coming to this meeting. And, you know, we had a really nice brief discussion of,

3226
04:41:33,220 --> 04:41:40,140
You know, Wake County, Raleigh, Cary, other municipalities in Wake County collaborating

3227
04:41:40,140 --> 04:41:41,860
makes a lot of sense.

3228
04:41:42,620 --> 04:41:44,520
You see it in our other regional partners.

3229
04:41:44,800 --> 04:41:48,320
You see it in the Greater Raleigh Area Habitat for Humanity.

3230
04:41:48,740 --> 04:41:51,580
You see it in the Raleigh Area Land Trust.

3231
04:41:52,300 --> 04:41:58,320
So I do believe there's a future for us in collaborating with other entities.

3232
04:41:58,920 --> 04:42:07,040
That being said, I think I owe my colleagues an apology because they wanted us to consider

3233
04:42:07,040 --> 04:42:09,200
removing this from tonight's agenda.

3234
04:42:09,660 --> 04:42:14,540
And I fought against that because I think there's two problematic things that happen.

3235
04:42:15,040 --> 04:42:19,200
Our residents believe we vote yes on everything and we agree too much.

3236
04:42:20,120 --> 04:42:24,340
And as in this case, you can see we certainly don't agree too much and we're not all

3237
04:42:24,340 --> 04:42:25,060
voting yes.

3238
04:42:25,060 --> 04:42:32,840
And I felt as though it was important for the ugly part of this process to be done publicly.

3239
04:42:33,620 --> 04:42:37,340
I expected a little more, you know, mutual respect in the process.

3240
04:42:37,680 --> 04:42:38,640
But so be it.

3241
04:42:38,680 --> 04:42:40,640
You're angry with us, and you have every right to be angry.

3242
04:42:41,160 --> 04:42:45,620
So this is the discourse, and this is what I think needed to happen.

3243
04:42:45,620 --> 04:42:52,940
But there's no reasonable reason why we shouldn't do this exactly how we just discussed,

3244
04:42:53,060 --> 04:42:53,860
and that's transparently.

3245
04:42:53,860 --> 04:43:00,100
Finally, we just found out about this, and I argued to my colleagues that if we refused

3246
04:43:00,100 --> 04:43:06,960
to hear this in the timeline that was necessary for the Housing Authority to move forward

3247
04:43:06,960 --> 04:43:11,240
with this project, we're making a decision by not making a decision, and that is not

3248
04:43:11,240 --> 04:43:11,940
how I work.

3249
04:43:12,520 --> 04:43:19,040
I don't avoid hard votes, hard questions, hard answers, and I don't – any more

3250
04:43:19,040 --> 04:43:22,420
than I respond to being bullied into a – I'm not going to be bullied into this,

3251
04:43:22,420 --> 04:43:28,260
But I did consider all of the information that was available to me and my answer really

3252
04:43:28,260 --> 04:43:30,440
is not now, maybe at some point.

3253
04:43:30,880 --> 04:43:35,080
I don't know what a great project looks like.

3254
04:43:35,180 --> 04:43:37,940
I do believe that mixed income is right for Kerry.

3255
04:43:38,080 --> 04:43:39,660
I've said it for four years.

3256
04:43:39,800 --> 04:43:40,780
I'll say it for four more.

3257
04:43:41,260 --> 04:43:43,760
I do believe those projects are right here.

3258
04:43:45,060 --> 04:43:51,620
I want to do more to shore up folks that were like me 30 years ago and didn't have

3259
04:43:51,620 --> 04:43:56,120
two nickels to rub together and really needed a lot of help or a little help or some help

3260
04:43:56,120 --> 04:44:02,220
at all. And I do know there are so many people in this community that want to be part of

3261
04:44:02,220 --> 04:44:07,760
that solution. And I just want to, you know, I want to say we do hear you even when we

3262
04:44:07,760 --> 04:44:11,500
can't move forward on the thing that's in front of us that you feel so strongly about.

3263
04:44:12,460 --> 04:44:20,400
And I'm sorry about that. But I can't support this based off of the merits of what's

3264
04:44:20,400 --> 04:44:25,280
in front of me, how quickly we had to consider this case and come to a decision.

3265
04:44:31,220 --> 04:44:32,940
Do you want to go next or last?

3266
04:44:33,740 --> 04:44:34,780
I guess I'll go next.

3267
04:44:35,920 --> 04:44:41,860
So on the spirit of transparency on Tuesday, I made a motion to table this.

3268
04:44:42,220 --> 04:44:46,500
As everybody has shared, we were six people.

3269
04:44:47,140 --> 04:44:50,920
The mayor was unfortunately not able to be there.

3270
04:44:51,040 --> 04:44:54,620
And it was the vote, as we said, was three to three and a tie, the vote fails.

3271
04:44:54,620 --> 04:44:59,660
So that's what happened on Tuesday and there was a reason as everybody has

3272
04:45:00,000 --> 04:45:07,820
The reason at that time was I had been also contacted by a rally council member who had some concerns.

3273
04:45:08,800 --> 04:45:14,000
We had, I had some concerns about the RHA governance. How does it work?

3274
04:45:14,760 --> 04:45:20,400
You know, similar questions that you all brought up. How does rally working in Cary work?

3275
04:45:20,840 --> 04:45:24,200
You know, we don't, as you all brought up, we don't have a seat on board.

3276
04:45:24,200 --> 04:45:26,260
or what does governance look like.

3277
04:45:27,660 --> 04:45:35,640
And although we've absolutely followed the process, and that is the state process, this

3278
04:45:35,640 --> 04:45:43,000
is very different than a rezoning where you have months and months to weigh in.

3279
04:45:43,220 --> 04:45:47,000
The average rezoning takes a year or more, maybe two years.

3280
04:45:47,360 --> 04:45:51,960
So there's lots of opportunity to weigh in, to hear, to talk back.

3281
04:45:51,960 --> 04:45:55,820
And this process is compressed to two weeks, as you learned.

3282
04:45:56,400 --> 04:45:59,640
We got most of our information just a couple of weeks ago.

3283
04:46:00,120 --> 04:46:02,220
So that is new information.

3284
04:46:02,580 --> 04:46:05,200
We're also not done this before.

3285
04:46:05,660 --> 04:46:08,820
So everyone's doing their little bit of our own research,

3286
04:46:08,880 --> 04:46:11,620
looking at what's in front of us.

3287
04:46:12,060 --> 04:46:17,720
And I also knew that by making the proposal to table it,

3288
04:46:18,480 --> 04:46:22,460
was making a decision to not make a decision, right?

3289
04:46:22,600 --> 04:46:25,260
Because basically they have a timeline as well.

3290
04:46:27,800 --> 04:46:30,880
I think, as Council Member Kohn-Johnson said,

3291
04:46:31,320 --> 04:46:35,000
I think a housing authority in Cary is a good idea.

3292
04:46:35,500 --> 04:46:38,460
Whether it's Raleigh, whether it's a regional partnership,

3293
04:46:38,640 --> 04:46:40,940
whether it's Wake County, whether it's our own,

3294
04:46:41,760 --> 04:46:44,100
Cary, I don't know what the right answer is,

3295
04:46:44,100 --> 04:47:00,200
but certainly having that ability to take advantage as RHA can do in that tax way that they can allows us to invest in affordable housing.

3296
04:47:00,740 --> 04:47:09,900
Just as a side note, we invested in the senior affordable housing called Rose Park Manor where there are 81 units.

3297
04:47:09,900 --> 04:47:14,240
Those 81 units cost Kerry $3 million.

3298
04:47:15,300 --> 04:47:17,660
It cost Wake County almost $3 million.

3299
04:47:18,460 --> 04:47:24,460
And they received more than $25 million in tax credits for 81 units.

3300
04:47:25,080 --> 04:47:26,800
Now, it is a lovely place.

3301
04:47:27,080 --> 04:47:28,780
If you've gone or you know people that are there.

3302
04:47:29,180 --> 04:47:33,200
But that is quite the investment for a small number.

3303
04:47:33,200 --> 04:47:42,000
So in comparison to the 340, this investment is much more affordable if you were to compare them.

3304
04:47:43,240 --> 04:47:50,100
And there were one last thing, that Amber Wood is a lovely community.

3305
04:47:50,780 --> 04:47:58,680
I grew up in a single family home in subsidized housing.

3306
04:47:59,480 --> 04:48:04,800
and I know what it's like to not have food on the table,

3307
04:48:04,920 --> 04:48:08,120
but be entirely grateful for a roof over my head.

3308
04:48:08,980 --> 04:48:11,980
It is, no one wants to be there,

3309
04:48:12,680 --> 04:48:15,960
and Kerry is becoming continually more unaffordable

3310
04:48:15,960 --> 04:48:18,580
for many of the people that live here.

3311
04:48:19,160 --> 04:48:21,380
Amber Woods, we received some demographics.

3312
04:48:22,100 --> 04:48:24,300
Amber Woods' median age is 31.

3313
04:48:24,300 --> 04:48:33,320
The people that lived there, and this is real live data, are teachers and nurses, first responders,

3314
04:48:33,780 --> 04:48:40,480
childcare workers and service workers. That is real hard data of the folks who serve our community.

3315
04:48:41,540 --> 04:48:46,500
And I know that this is an important opportunity.

3316
04:48:46,500 --> 04:48:59,360
And at my challenges from Tuesday still remain, I don't have the answers to a lot of the things

3317
04:48:59,360 --> 04:49:05,180
that I need, which are how does Raleigh governance work and carry?

3318
04:49:08,000 --> 04:49:15,980
How was the $2 million that was due diligence or earnest money was at Raleigh's money

3319
04:49:15,980 --> 04:49:19,540
And they're, you know, are you going to want that back from Kerry?

3320
04:49:20,760 --> 04:49:24,160
What is the place that we have?

3321
04:49:24,360 --> 04:49:26,920
Where's the say that Kerry will have?

3322
04:49:27,560 --> 04:49:33,300
But the biggest concern I have right this moment is the fact that we don't, I'm very glad you brought up,

3323
04:49:33,460 --> 04:49:35,400
we don't know enough about the covenants.

3324
04:49:35,820 --> 04:49:42,040
We know that our ordinance will obviously still play a role.

3325
04:49:42,040 --> 04:49:47,240
There are too many unanswered questions still for me.

3326
04:49:47,380 --> 04:49:48,220
They have not changed.

3327
04:49:49,040 --> 04:49:50,380
A bunch of them were answered.

3328
04:49:51,080 --> 04:49:52,520
I will give RHA credit for that.

3329
04:49:52,800 --> 04:49:57,380
But there's still a number of other questions that need to be answered for me.

3330
04:49:57,680 --> 04:50:00,920
I am an affordable housing advocate.

3331
04:50:01,280 --> 04:50:06,200
I believe the folks that live in Amberwood should be able to stay in Amberwood.

3332
04:50:06,600 --> 04:50:09,360
And I want this to happen.

3333
04:50:09,360 --> 04:50:15,140
But I don't have enough information to support it at this time, and that's that's where I am

3334
04:50:15,140 --> 04:50:16,020
I'll

3335
04:50:21,300 --> 04:50:26,550
make some brief remarks, but councilmember Craig has one more question. Oh

3336
04:50:26,550 --> 04:50:30,130
first I thought you met after I would I

3337
04:50:31,530 --> 04:50:36,410
Would like that I would like RHA to answer the question about

3338
04:50:36,410 --> 04:50:44,730
the two million dollars because I was told that no money was received from the city of Raleigh

3339
04:50:49,910 --> 04:50:50,230
and

3340
04:50:50,230 --> 04:50:59,330
And Mayor Pro Tem, Lori Bush was in a different meeting than me, so I want to make sure we

3341
04:50:59,330 --> 04:51:00,250
have both this information.

3342
04:51:00,530 --> 04:51:01,070
No, I'm glad you.

3343
04:51:01,350 --> 04:51:03,450
It was one of my questions on my list to ask, and I first.

3344
04:51:03,990 --> 04:51:09,150
So the question, again, is the $2 million in earnest money that was paid.

3345
04:51:09,850 --> 04:51:11,790
So that money is refundable.

3346
04:51:12,630 --> 04:51:14,370
And we'll come back to the housing authority.

3347
04:51:15,450 --> 04:51:16,250
The money.

3348
04:51:16,750 --> 04:51:18,910
I think she was asking where it came from.

3349
04:51:19,110 --> 04:51:19,690
Was it Raleigh's?

3350
04:51:20,150 --> 04:51:24,090
I was told you had not received money from the City of Raleigh.

3351
04:51:24,150 --> 04:51:24,750
No, no, no.

3352
04:51:25,050 --> 04:51:25,950
We don't.

3353
04:51:26,130 --> 04:51:27,150
We use solid resources.

3354
04:51:27,630 --> 04:51:29,690
So could you tell us a tiny bit more?

3355
04:51:30,570 --> 04:51:34,110
We're probably voting no, it sounds like, but could you provide a time?

3356
04:51:34,290 --> 04:51:38,470
Because I think it's important that people know that I did do research.

3357
04:51:39,090 --> 04:51:39,210
Yeah.

3358
04:51:39,350 --> 04:51:42,230
I mean, I've gathered this information, but where do you get your funding?

3359
04:51:42,230 --> 04:51:49,650
Where do we – the Housing Authority does have reserves that are unrestricted from operation

3360
04:51:49,650 --> 04:51:54,030
of properties that are non-fed role and not subsidized.

3361
04:51:54,430 --> 04:52:01,970
We have workforce housing that pays for itself and earns – you know, it has cash flow.

3362
04:52:02,270 --> 04:52:06,850
So with reserves built up, we can make that investment.

3363
04:52:06,850 --> 04:52:17,350
and we also have other sources of income in bond fees that we issue bonds for all tax

3364
04:52:17,350 --> 04:52:20,450
credit deals in the county and we own bond fees from that.

3365
04:52:20,670 --> 04:52:26,670
So we do have unrestricted funds coming in that we can use to assist.

3366
04:52:26,810 --> 04:52:27,450
From other properties.

3367
04:52:28,070 --> 04:52:32,130
Have those been funded by the City of Raleigh?

3368
04:52:32,370 --> 04:52:32,550
No.

3369
04:52:34,050 --> 04:52:37,750
Now, we have not received any funding from the City of Raleigh for this.

3370
04:52:38,250 --> 04:52:44,990
Can you clarify where those projects funded, similarly to what you described to me when

3371
04:52:44,990 --> 04:52:52,530
I asked you how this funding works with the kind of self-funding where you purchase the

3372
04:52:52,530 --> 04:52:55,730
property and the rents are really what's paying the mortgage, so to speak.

3373
04:52:56,210 --> 04:52:59,550
So which property is the properties that we developed or redeveloped?

3374
04:52:59,550 --> 04:53:04,750
What we're trying to understand is, remember I kept asking you, is there any commingling

3375
04:53:05,270 --> 04:53:11,650
of Raleigh taxpayer funds with how you're paying for this project?

3376
04:53:11,850 --> 04:53:16,710
And I think we're trying to really understand, you know, right down to the penny whether

3377
04:53:16,710 --> 04:53:18,210
or not there is.

3378
04:53:18,790 --> 04:53:24,670
I mean, the short answer is there's no Raleigh tax money that is going into this.

3379
04:53:24,830 --> 04:53:25,030
Okay.

3380
04:53:25,130 --> 04:53:25,690
Not at all.

3381
04:53:29,110 --> 04:53:29,770
Thank you.

3382
04:53:30,330 --> 04:53:31,070
Thank you.

3383
04:53:31,070 --> 04:53:31,150
Thank you.

3384
04:53:31,410 --> 04:53:31,970
Appreciate it.

3385
04:53:33,830 --> 04:53:39,550
Okay, folks, I'm last, and it's late, and I'm clearly not casting the deciding vote,

3386
04:53:39,550 --> 04:53:45,770
so I don't really have to offer a comment, but I feel compelled to speak to the constituents

3387
04:53:45,770 --> 04:53:51,510
of Cary so you understand why I cast a vote the way that I do, and I'm going to be upfront

3388
04:53:51,510 --> 04:53:55,230
to give you time to react so that hopefully I can get through the rest of my remarks

3389
04:53:55,230 --> 04:53:57,030
and tell you that I am voting yes tonight.

3390
04:54:00,060 --> 04:54:06,220
The resolution is not going to pass, so like I said, this is not decisive, but in the interest

3391
04:54:06,220 --> 04:54:09,560
of transparency, I want to let you know why my vote is yes.

3392
04:54:10,280 --> 04:54:14,000
And so Council is not tasked with making decisions slowly.

3393
04:54:14,480 --> 04:54:18,780
We are charged with making decisions thoughtfully and seeking community input.

3394
04:54:19,180 --> 04:54:25,180
And as evidenced by my full inbox and the full house here tonight, residents are

3395
04:54:25,180 --> 04:54:25,920
engaged.

3396
04:54:25,920 --> 04:54:35,660
And I agree with my colleagues, if they feel that they did not have enough time to have their questions answered, then they should not vote for it.

3397
04:54:36,040 --> 04:54:41,500
I, however, feel that I had enough time to have my questions answered to my satisfaction.

3398
04:54:41,960 --> 04:54:45,140
That was talking to our counterparts in Raleigh.

3399
04:54:45,260 --> 04:54:47,040
That was meeting with the applicant.

3400
04:54:47,260 --> 04:54:52,680
That was consulting a police chief salt about crime statistics in our community.

3401
04:54:52,680 --> 04:54:58,560
And so what I heard here today was a lot of concerns about change, which I totally understand.

3402
04:54:59,280 --> 04:55:03,020
You know, I drove through Amberwood myself today, and it's lovely.

3403
04:55:03,260 --> 04:55:05,000
I see why you don't want to change it.

3404
04:55:05,560 --> 04:55:08,220
The change of ownership is not our choice.

3405
04:55:08,800 --> 04:55:13,060
The current owner is selling, and the current owner is an investment firm in Florida.

3406
04:55:13,480 --> 04:55:18,400
And so, you know, the concerns about if the ownership has the interest of carry at heart,

3407
04:55:18,400 --> 04:55:23,020
The ownership of any given property doesn't necessarily have ties to our community.

3408
04:55:23,300 --> 04:55:32,480
And so I was willing to think of our partners and our neighbors in Raleigh as owners that would be owners in good faith as any owners were.

3409
04:55:32,580 --> 04:55:39,780
And that's not to cast dispersions on an ownership company in another state, but they are also not local neighbors.

3410
04:55:40,580 --> 04:55:43,680
They don't, you know, that company is not based in Cary.

3411
04:55:43,680 --> 04:55:51,180
And so, I believe of all the likely outcomes that RHA ownership is a scenario most likely

3412
04:55:51,180 --> 04:55:52,620
to keep the community the same.

3413
04:55:53,100 --> 04:55:57,160
The residents who live there now stay in their homes, professional property management stays

3414
04:55:57,160 --> 04:55:57,740
the same.

3415
04:55:58,540 --> 04:56:03,680
Affordable housing has been a top concern, not just of many on council but also the

3416
04:56:03,680 --> 04:56:04,100
community.

3417
04:56:04,540 --> 04:56:07,920
And it was one of the top concerns in our most recent Cary survey.

3418
04:56:07,920 --> 04:56:16,660
And what I hear most often is that carry is a prosperous community, but people are getting priced out of living here.

3419
04:56:17,080 --> 04:56:21,980
And honestly, I hear less about building brand new affordable housing, which is an important tool.

3420
04:56:22,340 --> 04:56:27,540
But I think folks think more about maintaining the affordable housing for the people that live here.

3421
04:56:28,100 --> 04:56:35,160
I personally don't think it's a myth or a fallacy to say that preserving Amberwood means that the teachers

3422
04:56:35,160 --> 04:56:39,740
and the firefighters and the police officers who live there now would get to stay there.

3423
04:56:40,360 --> 04:56:43,940
You know, the other population I hear a lot about is when people say,

3424
04:56:43,940 --> 04:56:48,620
I raised my children in Cary, I'd love for them to, they went away to college,

3425
04:56:48,740 --> 04:56:51,580
they want to move back, I'd love for them to be able to live here.

3426
04:56:52,260 --> 04:56:55,560
Well, those are the young professionals, the median age is 31.

3427
04:56:56,160 --> 04:56:58,680
Those are the people who are living in Amberwood.

3428
04:56:59,020 --> 04:57:04,260
And I see a parallel with Chatham Estates, one of the commenters mentioned Chatham Estates.

3429
04:57:04,260 --> 04:57:11,960
That situation dismayed a lot of neighbors that Cary residents were being displaced and in that case, Cary couldn't intervene.

3430
04:57:12,380 --> 04:57:16,720
We assisted our non-profit partners, but we couldn't prevent that displacement from happening.

3431
04:57:17,280 --> 04:57:21,120
And in this case, we do have an opportunity to preserve a community.

3432
04:57:21,620 --> 04:57:26,420
And so I believe the investment is worth it, especially compared to the cost of new construction.

3433
04:57:26,800 --> 04:57:28,360
And that's why I'm voting yes tonight.

3434
04:57:29,740 --> 04:57:31,160
Okay. Anybody else?

3435
04:57:33,250 --> 04:57:36,010
If we're ready for a motion, I would entertain a motion.

3436
04:57:39,770 --> 04:57:40,350
If you want to.

3437
04:57:41,270 --> 04:57:42,090
I'm sorry.

3438
04:57:42,750 --> 04:57:46,250
Council Member Huang had mentioned that she wanted to make a motion.

3439
04:57:46,470 --> 04:57:48,370
So I wasn't sure if you still wanted to make that motion.

3440
04:57:48,370 --> 04:57:55,770
Yes, because similar to Tuesday, I still on the same page would love to table this.

3441
04:58:01,310 --> 04:58:08,690
I think RHA has made it clear if we table it, that will be effectively a no vote.

3442
04:58:09,150 --> 04:58:11,270
Of course, you can make that motion if you would like.

3443
04:58:12,550 --> 04:58:17,650
I would just say that tabling from my perspective, I would support a table.

3444
04:58:18,970 --> 04:58:21,430
You haven't made the motion yet, so I'll just say that.

3445
04:58:21,430 --> 04:58:27,030
But because my concerns do need additional information.

3446
04:58:27,510 --> 04:58:34,630
And I do think that some of these, over time, I might have the answer in order to vote yes

3447
04:58:34,630 --> 04:58:35,010
or no.

3448
04:58:35,210 --> 04:58:40,930
But right now, if I'm pressed to vote, I don't have enough answers to support it.

3449
04:58:41,250 --> 04:58:45,590
But if you were to vote to tabling it, I would support that if that was your motion.

3450
04:58:45,590 --> 04:58:52,770
But, again, we do know that RHA has said that they need an answer.

3451
04:58:53,050 --> 04:58:55,370
Before next Monday.

3452
04:58:56,170 --> 04:58:58,710
Which is essentially no.

3453
04:58:59,030 --> 04:58:59,250
Yes.

3454
04:58:59,990 --> 04:59:03,850
A table this proposal means no.

3455
04:59:06,610 --> 04:59:10,370
If that is your motion, I would second it.

3456
04:59:10,370 --> 04:59:15,550
My motion is to table the RHA to purchase Emberwood in Kerry.

3457
04:59:17,830 --> 04:59:18,650
Is that right?

3458
04:59:18,970 --> 04:59:20,330
Okay. Is there a second?

3459
04:59:20,750 --> 04:59:23,450
I'll second. It's the same motion we did on Tuesday.

3460
04:59:23,990 --> 04:59:25,290
Further discussion?

3461
04:59:25,830 --> 04:59:34,470
Yeah, I would just like clarification from Lisa, please, on understanding that RHA has their own independent decision to make,

3462
04:59:34,550 --> 04:59:37,190
whether this is a vote to table or this is an up or down vote.

3463
04:59:37,190 --> 04:59:44,790
Is there any practical difference to us in terms of calling this a table, you know,

3464
04:59:44,830 --> 04:59:48,650
in terms of saying that we're tabling it or in just voting no?

3465
04:59:49,470 --> 04:59:54,970
I mean, does this obligate us to then have to return to it on another agenda or?

3466
04:59:55,390 --> 04:59:59,970
It doesn't obligate you, it leaves it open so that it could come back to you at a future time.

3467
05:00:00,940 --> 05:00:04,560
And you may not ever bring it up again, so I mean.

3468
05:00:04,620 --> 05:00:09,460
Couldn't it also, if we voted it no tonight, still come before us again?

3469
05:00:10,080 --> 05:00:14,040
The housing authority or a different housing authority would need to make a different proposal.

3470
05:00:14,440 --> 05:00:14,600
Okay.

3471
05:00:16,880 --> 05:00:18,720
So we have a motion on the table to.

3472
05:00:19,480 --> 05:00:20,100
And a second.

3473
05:00:20,320 --> 05:00:22,480
And a second to table this item.

3474
05:00:23,300 --> 05:00:29,760
And I understand, to be clear, I understand that folks at this table, some are ready

3475
05:00:29,760 --> 05:00:36,220
to make a decision. But my reason still stands that I don't have enough to support it.

3476
05:00:36,480 --> 05:00:42,500
So I think so. I agree with Mayor Bruton Bush. That's exactly what I said. I don't have

3477
05:00:42,500 --> 05:00:48,880
enough information to vote yes or no. I mean, if I really have to vote today, it would

3478
05:00:48,880 --> 05:00:51,060
be no, between yes and no.

3479
05:00:53,480 --> 05:00:54,680
Please, please.

3480
05:00:55,280 --> 05:01:02,280
So in discussion, I will support your motion, but I'm thinking that is a no vote.

3481
05:01:03,240 --> 05:01:03,480
So that's...

3482
05:01:03,480 --> 05:01:05,160
The result is equal to no.

3483
05:01:06,060 --> 05:01:06,440
All right.

3484
05:01:06,640 --> 05:01:08,600
So any other comments in discussion?

3485
05:01:09,000 --> 05:01:11,120
There's a motion on the table, all in favor?

3486
05:01:11,620 --> 05:01:12,500
Please say aye.

3487
05:01:13,080 --> 05:01:13,480
Aye.

3488
05:01:13,860 --> 05:01:14,500
Those opposed?

3489
05:01:15,000 --> 05:01:15,280
No.

3490
05:01:15,280 --> 05:01:23,300
So, motion carries 5-2, 5-2, and this item is tabled and that's it.

3491
05:01:24,900 --> 05:01:27,560
The council will now take a five-minute recess.

3492
05:01:28,920 --> 05:01:29,200
This

3493
05:08:22,640 --> 05:08:25,280
meeting at this time we have two discussion items.

3494
05:08:25,600 --> 05:08:29,100
First discussion item is 25RAZ03.

3495
05:08:29,400 --> 05:08:35,900
Kalec, senior living of carry rezoning and planning manager Aaron Puckett will give a report

3496
05:08:35,900 --> 05:08:37,840
and we'll hear from the planning and zoning.

3497
05:08:37,840 --> 05:08:42,720
We'll hear the Planning and Zoning Board's recommendation, and Council may take action.

3498
05:08:43,040 --> 05:08:43,440
Ms. Puckett.

3499
05:08:43,900 --> 05:08:46,020
Thank you, and good evening, Council.

3500
05:08:46,780 --> 05:08:52,840
On a lighter note, this request is to rezone approximately 7.4 acres located at 1005 and

3501
05:08:52,840 --> 05:08:54,660
1017 Breedy Creek Road.

3502
05:08:55,220 --> 05:08:59,240
You held a public hearing for this request last year in June, and you may make a decision

3503
05:08:59,240 --> 05:08:59,720
this evening.

3504
05:09:00,740 --> 05:09:04,580
The site is located south of the intersection of North Harrison Avenue and Breedy Creek

3505
05:09:04,580 --> 05:09:09,220
Road with frontage on both streets, and it's largely surrounded by detached residential

3506
05:09:09,220 --> 05:09:09,860
development.

3507
05:09:11,620 --> 05:09:16,140
The Parks Recreation and Cultural Resources System Plan indicates a greenway corridor along

3508
05:09:16,140 --> 05:09:17,520
the southern edge of the property.

3509
05:09:18,720 --> 05:09:24,380
The site is currently zoned R40, and the applicant proposes to rezone the site to

3510
05:09:24,380 --> 05:09:27,860
Office and Institutional Conditional Use, or ONICU.

3511
05:09:29,440 --> 05:09:35,950
The applicant has offered several zoning conditions to limit uses on the site to

3512
05:09:35,950 --> 05:09:40,530
life care community and nursing home. For context, these uses could include facilities

3513
05:09:40,530 --> 05:09:47,170
similar to Searstone or Glenair. Additional conditions include a minimum of 40 and maximum

3514
05:09:47,170 --> 05:09:54,110
of 75 residential units, which would be just over 10 units per acre. Commit to construction

3515
05:09:54,110 --> 05:09:58,750
of the greenway onsite, as shown on that PRCR system plan I showed a moment ago.

3516
05:09:59,450 --> 05:10:03,910
And to construct it at least 35 feet from the southern property line, such that an

3517
05:10:03,910 --> 05:10:10,630
average 30-foot wide area will remain undisturbed, limit buildings on the site to one story and

3518
05:10:10,630 --> 05:10:17,270
35 feet in height, provide a 75-foot building setback from the Southern Property Line, as

3519
05:10:17,270 --> 05:10:22,110
well as a 75-foot parking space setback from the Southern Property Line. Drive aisles could

3520
05:10:22,110 --> 05:10:29,550
be closer. Provide a bus stop pad along the North Harrison Avenue Frontage, and provide

3521
05:10:29,550 --> 05:10:34,270
a slide path along the North Harrison Avenue frontage consistent with the PRCR system plan

3522
05:10:34,270 --> 05:10:38,770
and bike plan. That would be a 12 foot wide facility but could be reduced to no less than

3523
05:10:38,770 --> 05:10:42,990
eight feet in constrained situations. That would be reviewed and approved by staff at

3524
05:10:42,990 --> 05:10:44,010
time of development plan.

3525
05:10:46,460 --> 05:10:48,840
The planning and zoning board reviewed the request at their

3526
05:10:48,840 --> 05:10:53,220
March meeting earlier this year. Board members had generally positive comments that noted

3527
05:10:53,220 --> 05:10:57,740
the proposed uses are needed and carry. One member requested the applicants ensure

3528
05:10:57,740 --> 05:11:02,700
a minimum number of units. Some noted the need for a wider multimodal facility along

3529
05:11:02,700 --> 05:11:11,420
North Harrison at the time a six foot sidewalk was offered. And some commented that larger

3530
05:11:11,420 --> 05:11:17,280
buffers or open space could help with transitions to nearby residential neighborhoods. Ultimately

3531
05:11:17,280 --> 05:11:21,300
the board did find it consistent with the carry community plan by a vote of 8 to 1.

3532
05:11:24,240 --> 05:11:27,400
The applicant made a number of changes to the proposal following the planning and

3533
05:11:27,400 --> 05:11:32,640
zoning board meeting. They added that minimum number of units for 40 units in addition to

3534
05:11:32,640 --> 05:11:38,220
the maximum. They increased the greenway separation from the southern property line by 5 feet,

3535
05:11:38,480 --> 05:11:43,400
so the minimum separation would now be 35 feet. I do note this condition does not supersede

3536
05:11:43,400 --> 05:11:48,380
LDO requirements, limiting buffer disturbance, so it is possible the LDO could require

3537
05:11:48,380 --> 05:11:51,500
the trail to have a slightly greater separation at time of development plan.

3538
05:11:53,910 --> 05:11:54,930
They also increased

3539
05:11:54,930 --> 05:11:58,670
the minimum side path along the North Harrison Avenue frontage. Previously they

3540
05:11:58,670 --> 05:12:02,550
They had offered six-foot sidewalk, and now they've offered to meet the 12-foot wide option

3541
05:12:02,550 --> 05:12:08,910
in the PRCR system plan and bike plan, but narrow it to eight feet in areas of constraint

3542
05:12:08,910 --> 05:12:10,210
as approved by Cary staff.

3543
05:12:12,260 --> 05:12:16,300
Staff found the proposed use is consistent with live policies and is supported by the

3544
05:12:16,300 --> 05:12:17,540
Future Growth Framework designation.

3545
05:12:18,800 --> 05:12:22,960
The shape policy regarding transitions is addressed by an increased building setback

3546
05:12:22,960 --> 05:12:24,740
and the one-story building form.

3547
05:12:25,840 --> 05:12:29,380
The commitment to constructing the site's greenway segment and providing a multimodal

3548
05:12:29,380 --> 05:12:33,600
facility on North Harrison Avenue, helps meet, move, and engage policies.

3549
05:12:34,720 --> 05:12:39,380
There's no clear commitment to open space or tree preservation beyond minimum LD requirements

3550
05:12:39,380 --> 05:12:45,580
to address in rich, but overall the proposal meets most applicable plan policies and staff

3551
05:12:45,580 --> 05:12:47,460
therefore recommends approval of the request.

3552
05:12:49,080 --> 05:12:50,460
This concludes my presentation.

3553
05:12:50,980 --> 05:12:53,880
I'm available for questions, and the applicants team is also available.

3554
05:12:54,040 --> 05:12:54,980
Should you have questions for them?

3555
05:12:55,440 --> 05:12:56,360
Thank you, Ms. Puckett.

3556
05:12:56,360 --> 05:13:01,250
Do we have questions from this, or are we ready for a motion?

3557
05:13:01,490 --> 05:13:02,850
I just have one quick question.

3558
05:13:03,550 --> 05:13:04,910
I know, I know, I know.

3559
05:13:05,030 --> 05:13:07,290
How tall is a one-story building usually?

3560
05:13:08,170 --> 05:13:09,270
So it depends.

3561
05:13:09,750 --> 05:13:12,190
This is more of an institutional type building,

3562
05:13:12,230 --> 05:13:13,930
so it could be more like 15 feet,

3563
05:13:14,090 --> 05:13:16,650
but that's not a requirement in our code.

3564
05:13:17,210 --> 05:13:20,330
Can you explain one story slash 35 foot then to me?

3565
05:13:20,330 --> 05:13:21,950
So they could go up to 35 feet.

3566
05:13:22,070 --> 05:13:24,890
We have had facilities, even apartments in the past,

3567
05:13:24,890 --> 05:13:28,650
that have sort of a one-and-a-half story appearance

3568
05:13:29,050 --> 05:13:31,170
or have like a mezzanine type.

3569
05:13:31,590 --> 05:13:31,950
Trium.

3570
05:13:32,270 --> 05:13:34,290
Yes, so this just gives them some flexibility

3571
05:13:34,290 --> 05:13:36,170
should they have high ceilings.

3572
05:13:36,450 --> 05:13:37,270
Okay, thank you.

3573
05:13:37,570 --> 05:13:40,430
I just couldn't get past the 35.

3574
05:13:40,430 --> 05:13:41,830
I understand, yes.

3575
05:13:42,570 --> 05:13:43,490
That's my only question.

3576
05:13:43,870 --> 05:13:44,510
Other questions.

3577
05:13:44,790 --> 05:13:45,830
I just have an observation.

3578
05:13:46,110 --> 05:13:47,330
It feels lonely here now.

3579
05:13:48,230 --> 05:13:48,710
What's that?

3580
05:13:49,050 --> 05:13:50,590
It feels lonely here now.

3581
05:13:51,430 --> 05:13:51,950
You're lonely?

3582
05:13:52,310 --> 05:13:54,090
Come on, that's for some giggles.

3583
05:13:55,830 --> 05:14:00,890
I just wanted to say that I appreciate the changes made since planning and zoning board

3584
05:14:01,930 --> 05:14:08,490
And we there's a shortage of CCRCs and it's growing and so you know that would be a welcome addition to the

3585
05:14:08,490 --> 05:14:13,130
Community because that's exactly the kind of facility. We really need yeah

3586
05:14:13,130 --> 05:14:18,870
I and I I'm not going to repeat anything anyone else said so keep moving and getting along

3587
05:14:18,870 --> 05:14:28,410
I appreciate specifically the wider sidewalk to 12 feet especially for bike folks and understanding is narrower.

3588
05:14:29,250 --> 05:14:33,950
The other thing is that I reached out to some folks and I find it very interesting.

3589
05:14:34,070 --> 05:14:39,270
We didn't receive any email from any concerned homeowners this time.

3590
05:14:39,610 --> 05:14:45,410
So either they let it go or they're okay with the changes as well.

3591
05:14:46,010 --> 05:14:51,450
Yeah, they must be okay, but I appreciate all the conditions and I think this is going to be a great project. Thank you

3592
05:14:52,090 --> 05:14:53,570
Yeah, I'll be candid and say

3593
05:14:54,090 --> 05:14:59,890
You know we don't make a decision until we are taking a vote and so I was leaning no on this

3594
05:15:00,000 --> 05:15:04,260
It felt to me a little bit like, you know, we know that the land that's left to develop

3595
05:15:04,260 --> 05:15:10,620
and carry is often not yet developed because it presents logistical challenges. And so it

3596
05:15:10,620 --> 05:15:15,260
felt to me that maybe we were having a little bit of a square peg in a round-hole situation

3597
05:15:15,260 --> 05:15:22,120
here despite the real need for the housing. But I'm also happy to see the changes since

3598
05:15:22,120 --> 05:15:26,900
planning and zoning. I think the applicant was mindful of that. You know, whenever

3599
05:15:26,900 --> 05:15:32,800
we're making any one of these decisions, thinking about also what are the alternatives. And,

3600
05:15:32,840 --> 05:15:39,240
you know, we have so many pressures for density and height. And so, for this to be a needed

3601
05:15:39,240 --> 05:15:43,800
type of housing with a height that's going to fit in with a neighborhood character,

3602
05:15:44,540 --> 05:15:50,540
we've addressed some of the transition issues by extending the buffer. I appreciate all

3603
05:15:50,540 --> 05:15:51,040
those measures.

3604
05:15:52,600 --> 05:15:58,320
Make a motion that we move to adopt the following documents attached to the online agenda for

3605
05:15:58,320 --> 05:16:04,360
the statement of consistency for 25REZ03 calyx, senior living of Kerry, and the rezoning ordinance

3606
05:16:04,800 --> 05:16:08,540
for 25REZ03 calyx, senior living of Kerry.

3607
05:16:08,740 --> 05:16:08,980
Second.

3608
05:16:09,300 --> 05:16:10,480
There's a motion and a second.

3609
05:16:10,760 --> 05:16:11,700
Further discussion?

3610
05:16:12,280 --> 05:16:13,460
All in favor, please say aye.

3611
05:16:13,760 --> 05:16:14,060
Aye.

3612
05:16:14,220 --> 05:16:14,720
Any opposed?

3613
05:16:14,960 --> 05:16:16,100
Motion carries unanimously.

3614
05:16:16,720 --> 05:16:17,500
Thank you, Ms. Puckett.

3615
05:16:17,520 --> 05:16:17,900
Thank you.

3616
05:16:17,900 --> 05:16:20,900
We now move to our last discussion item, yay.

3617
05:16:22,200 --> 05:16:27,660
It's anti-retaliation policy protection for reporting improper activities.

3618
05:16:28,280 --> 05:16:32,820
Interim Town Manager Russ Overton will present this item in Council May Tech Action.

3619
05:16:33,280 --> 05:16:33,980
Mr. Overton.

3620
05:16:34,340 --> 05:16:34,800
Thank you, Mayor.

3621
05:16:35,340 --> 05:16:37,800
Before you, with just a little bit of night left,

3622
05:16:38,120 --> 05:16:41,620
is a new policy to establish an anti-retaliation policy.

3623
05:16:41,900 --> 05:16:45,960
And we talked about this in more detail at this past Tuesday's work session.

3624
05:16:46,840 --> 05:16:51,500
Carried does not have a formal standalone anti-retaliation poly to provide comprehensive

3625
05:16:51,500 --> 05:16:53,300
organization-wide coverage.

3626
05:16:53,900 --> 05:16:59,620
We do, however, have policies and standards on anti-harassment, non-discrimination, as

3627
05:16:59,620 --> 05:17:02,500
well as grievance procedures that provide some protections.

3628
05:17:04,360 --> 05:17:11,760
I'm not going to read them all, but this policy implementation is mentioned in three

3629
05:17:11,760 --> 05:17:16,300
of the recommendations listed from recent outside reports listed here on the screen.

3630
05:17:17,200 --> 05:17:22,940
This policy would also establish a tip line and we are currently that someone could call

3631
05:17:23,360 --> 05:17:29,400
and report retaliation and we'll research options and make that part of the standard procedure

3632
05:17:29,400 --> 05:17:30,300
as we implement it.

3633
05:17:32,080 --> 05:17:35,440
There is no direct fiscal impact associated with approving this policy.

3634
05:17:35,560 --> 05:17:39,420
However, with the operating tip line there could be some cost we'll research that

3635
05:17:39,420 --> 05:17:43,640
and if it's of an appropriate fee that we need budget appropriations, we'll bring that

3636
05:17:43,640 --> 05:17:44,160
back to you.

3637
05:17:46,000 --> 05:17:51,400
So the next steps if council approves this anti-retaliation policy, we'll publish it,

3638
05:17:51,520 --> 05:17:55,380
we'll communicate it to staff, and throughout the organization there will be training and

3639
05:17:55,380 --> 05:17:59,080
we'll develop the supporting standard procedure to be able to implement it.

3640
05:17:59,460 --> 05:18:06,420
So with that, we'd recommend that council adopt a policy statement 190 for anti-retaliation

3641
05:18:06,420 --> 05:18:12,800
of protection for reporting an improper activity, and I want to point out that we also, as was

3642
05:18:12,800 --> 05:18:19,360
recommended by council on Tuesday's work session, add the language to the policy that you were

3643
05:18:19,360 --> 05:18:23,520
emailed earlier today that I believe it states direct to create a standard procedure

3644
05:18:23,520 --> 05:18:27,980
to further implement this policy to include requirements for training for new and existing

3645
05:18:27,980 --> 05:18:29,680
employees on a periodic basis.

3646
05:18:30,080 --> 05:18:30,840
Thank you for that.

3647
05:18:30,980 --> 05:18:31,560
I appreciate it.

3648
05:18:31,560 --> 05:18:40,340
I think I also sent you an email, Russ, about how do we report this back to the council?

3649
05:18:41,060 --> 05:18:45,680
Can we have some sort of reporting structure on a quarterly basis?

3650
05:18:47,280 --> 05:18:48,720
How is the feedback?

3651
05:18:49,060 --> 05:18:49,860
How are things working?

3652
05:18:51,080 --> 05:18:54,160
What kind of issues are we hearing about?

3653
05:18:54,460 --> 05:18:54,780
Okay.

3654
05:18:54,900 --> 05:18:57,520
I probably didn't see that with all the other emails of the day.

3655
05:18:59,220 --> 05:19:04,540
What if we, obviously recommending that you adopt this policy statement if we work on that

3656
05:19:04,540 --> 05:19:09,360
within a standard procedure and try to implement in that way and then also give us some time

3657
05:19:09,360 --> 05:19:13,320
to think about it because we'll have to be careful how we report and we probably need

3658
05:19:13,320 --> 05:19:18,040
to be thoughtful on how we report because there's an anonymity to this with regards

3659
05:19:18,040 --> 05:19:23,500
to who, so if it's data and how many calls or something like that I'm sure that would

3660
05:19:23,500 --> 05:19:28,960
be easier report, but maybe we work that into the standard somehow. And certainly you can

3661
05:19:28,960 --> 05:19:31,060
always ask me for anything you'd like.

3662
05:19:31,580 --> 05:19:33,440
Okay. That's fine.

3663
05:19:34,160 --> 05:19:34,640
Go ahead.

3664
05:19:35,080 --> 05:19:39,060
No, I'm saying that's fine. Just putting that into standard operating procedure.

3665
05:19:39,860 --> 05:19:42,480
Other questions or are we ready for a motion?

3666
05:19:42,540 --> 05:19:48,540
Quick comments. I just want to say that I'm sorry that we didn't push for a survey.

3667
05:19:48,540 --> 05:19:56,860
Last year, we requested a year prior for a survey to happen for employees, and I take personal responsibility.

3668
05:19:57,420 --> 05:19:59,900
I did not follow up on that, and I'm sorry for that.

3669
05:20:00,500 --> 05:20:11,780
And I'm sorry that, as was described in the Wabba Bond Dickinson Report today, that a negative workplace culture developed

3670
05:20:11,780 --> 05:20:17,340
And that we were not able to prevent or that from happening or for making it worse

3671
05:20:17,340 --> 05:20:19,580
And so that I'm happy that we're putting things

3672
05:20:19,580 --> 05:20:23,040
Wow, I'm happy that we're putting things into place

3673
05:20:23,720 --> 05:20:26,760
To help make sure that doesn't happen in the future

3674
05:20:27,580 --> 05:20:29,120
If we vote yes

3675
05:20:31,750 --> 05:20:32,770
anybody else

3676
05:20:33,710 --> 05:20:35,890
ready for a motion I

3677
05:20:35,890 --> 05:20:40,090
Move that the council adopts policy statement 190 the anti-retaliation

3678
05:20:40,090 --> 05:20:44,930
protection for reporting improper activity a second motion and a second

3679
05:20:44,930 --> 05:20:50,410
discussion all in favor please say aye I oppose motion unanimously that

3680
05:20:50,410 --> 05:20:56,370
concludes our business I would entertain a motion to so moved second there's a

3681
05:20:56,370 --> 05:21:00,910
motion and a second to adjourn discussion all in favor please say aye I

3682
05:21:00,910 --> 05:21:06,960
oppose motion carries and we are adjourned on Thursday so is it on

3683
05:21:06,960 --> 05:21:07,300
Thursday.

3684
05:21:07,300 --> 05:21:07,580
Of course it was Thursday.

3685
05:21:07,580 --> 05:21:08,120
You said!