Thank you. We want to welcome everybody to this uh special city council meeting
being held here on August 25th, 2026, 6 pm at Centerville City Hall. This is why
this is a special meeting is uh it's what we call a truth and taxation
meeting and law requires that all that we can discuss in this meeting is just
the truth and taxation issue. uh we don't discuss anything else and it
has to be on a [snorts] separate night from our regular council meetings. Our
regular council meetings are held the first and third Tuesday. So this has to
be separate from that meeting. So we welcome those uh the public that are
here by in person or online. We welcome staff that's here and
thank council that's here. Uh let's do a roll call of council to make sure that
uh we can take any action tonight. Starting here on my far left.
» Mikum present. >> Bangader present.
» Hurst present. >> Plumber present.
» Heman present. >> Thank you. Uh we have four in person,
one online. Uh so we have all five council members.
Uh so we can uh proceed with our business. Like I said, this is uh this
is a public hearing matter. So that means that we have an opportunity to uh
hear from the public as well too on this. Uh this is a truth and taxation uh
in re in uh regards to a potential property tax
increase and finalizing the 2027 final budget. Now, our budgets
in the city, we're on a uh fiscal year. That means we run from uh July 1st to
June 30th on our budget. So, this will be we'll be setting the budget for
actually uh
the the budget period that started just under two months ago, but state law
allows us to do that. And uh with this truth in taxation, we obviously can't
finalize the budget till we um uh do the truth in taxation. So many of you that
are here are probably have some handouts. Um
uh we're going to call um our finance director up. I think he has a
presentation that he wants to present while he's coming up. uh he'll be
discussing to you uh why this truth in taxation uh um the
the amount that we're looking to potentially collect uh if if if property
taxes change uh the fiscal year 2027 budget certified tax rates and all of
that that fun stuff. Just the kind of stuff that you like to dream about when
you go to bed at night. So, uh, if Nate, if you would, uh, give us a little
overview and I'm sure that the council members will have things to add as well
too before we go to the public hearing parts. So, thank you.
» Yeah. Thank you, mayor. Good evening. Um, as you mentioned, uh, tonight we
have before you two resolutions, one to set the, uh, final tax rate for the city
and one to adopt our fiscal year 27 budget. Um, state code requires that
both of these be set uh prior to September 1st.
Okay. So, back in uh June, we received our uh the certified tax rate from the
county auditor. Uh along with that, the certified property tax revenue. Uh so,
the certified rate uh for 2026 was 0.1137
and that would give us about 2.3 million in revenue. And then we're proposing to
increase that uh by about 15%. So the new rate would be 0001314
and would provide about 2.7 million worth of property tax revenue, an
additional increase of the $369,13. Um and we will uh
get into the reasons why. Um but first I wanted to start with the the property
tax improperty tax impact statement. Um, this was adopted by uh council back in I
believe May and then we revised one either later in May or start of June. I
can't remember which. Um, so the the most recently adopted uh property tax
impact statement is available online as well as a printed copy on this table by
the door uh for anybody that would like one. Uh and on that uh table is also the
county combined ad and the city ad uh for our for our hearing tonight. Um so
again, we'll these are the items that make up uh the uh reasoning for the tax
increase. Uh if you remember our original discussions, uh we thought we
would do a tax increase for the new officer, the fire assessment increase,
and then we talked about doing a general 3% inflationary increase. Um since the
public is in prior hearings asked us to increase incrementally and off for years
and doing a big increase. Um and then the state law changed this year that we
need to specify specific reasons. Um, and so this is the reason that was voted
on by council. Uh, so this is what is on the property tax impact schedule. And
we'll get into this a little bit more, but first I want to talk about, uh, how
property taxes work in Utah. Um, so the first thing, uh, this pie chart
represents your total property tax bill. Uh, so all the different, uh, pieces are
the different taxing entities that make up your property tax bill. Uh it's
important to note that when we talk about the increase of the 15% tonight,
we are only talking about the Centerville City portion. So we're not
talking about your entire say $3,000 bill. We're talking about the $350
portion of that that is uh Centerville's tax rate.
All right. So in Utah, property taxes are revenue based. Uh this means that
they're based on the actual amount of dollars that we collected the prior
year. So state law says that the city can only receive the same dollar amount
in property taxes as it received the prior year unless uh one of two things
happen. The first is that we get new growth, new development within the city.
Uh and the second way to get new more property tax revenue is to go through
the truth and taxation process and increase the rate. And that's what we're
doing tonight. uh for 2026 we got our new growth figures from the county and
that was that $37,000. Um and the reason we can get new growth
without going through the hearing is because when you think about it as the
city develops that means that our service needs have increased. We have
more roads to maintain, more roads to plow, more police services necessary
etc. Um so that's why we get that new growth figure.
Okay. So to calculate your property tax bill, uh you simply take the taxable
value of your property and multiply it by the tax rate and this will give you
the amount of property taxes that you owe. The tax rate is the same for all
properties throughout the city, but the taxable value can fluctuate.
Uh and that depends on whether you're a residential property or a commercial
property. Okay. So each year the county performs
an assessment and assigns a value to your property. This is called the market
value. So in Centerville, the average home's market value is $610,000 this
year. Uh the taxable value is the value at which your property is taxed. As I
just mentioned, primary residents are given a 45% discounts. Other properties
uh their taxable value and their market value are the same.
Uh then we have the certified tax rate. So this is the rate at which your
property is taxed as calculated by the county. Um and I like this uh image of
the seessaw and the teeter totter. Um because as the city's property tax
values increase, your tax rate will decrease, but the the amount of property
tax revenue that the city gets remains the same. Um and the opposite would be
true if property values decrease then our tax rate would naturally increase
but the city would receive the same amount with the exception of new growth
or if we go through this process of truth and taxation. Uh so that's an
important part to remember as we look at this.
Uh so this is this chart shows the history of centerville's uh tax rate. Um
and you can see that that in most cases well in all cases as property values
have increased the tax rate decreased uh with the exceptions of when we went
through truth and taxation and those are those years that are uh called out
there. Um so you can see at the end where our tax rate would be without this
tax increase and then that red line on the right hand side shows uh what it
would look like if uh adopted tonight.
Okay, here is a uh comparison of other uh property tax rates. Again, these are
the certified tax rates. Um any of the cities that have uh the star next to
them, those are cities that are going through the truth and taxation process,
I have not kept up with them. Um so I don't know how they ended up, how they
voted. Um but this gives you a comparison.
Uh I always give the caveat when we look at this that every city's financial
needs are different and every city's revenue base is different than ours. Um
some cities like Fruit Heights have almost no sales tax generators. Um,
other cities have a power uh
a power fund that can help subsidize the general fund or other
sources of revenue. So, each city is comprised differently. Um, but I do
think this gives us a, you know, a general idea of how we fall in line with
other cities in the in the county.
Okay. Okay, so now I want to get into some uh commonly asked questions about
property tax. Um so the first one, are property taxes affected by inflation? Um
or more specifically, is your property tax bill affected by inflation? And the
answer is no. Again, to adjust the property taxes, we have to go through
this uh truth and taxation. Um, and this is part of the struggle of this when
you're trying to fund a city is that while we don't get more property tax
revenue as uh inflation occurs and costs rise, we
still have our costs to provide the service still continues to rise. So
again, just like everybody else, we get a need uh of increased cost to us to
provide the same level of service. Um but we don't automatically get extra
revenue based on inflation.
Okay. Um so frequently we get the question of um if the city hasn't raised
property taxes in the last couple years, how come my property tax bill has gone
up? Uh and there can be two possible reasons for this. Uh the first is that
another entity that we saw in that pie chart has increased taxes. Um, and if
they've gone through the truth and taxation process and raised their rate,
then your overall bill will increase. Um, and then the other possible scenario
is that your property has increased in value at a quicker rate than other
properties in the city. So remember, as the property values as a whole for the
city increase, the tax rate decreases for the city. However, as each
as your property may uh appreciate or depreciate differently than your
neighbors, um that could cause you and your neighbors uh tax bill to adjust
slightly. And I know that can be really confusing. Um so we've tried to
illustrate it here. Uh so in this example, you'll see um a city
with a total taxable value of 1.2 million. Uh, and so we get that by
adding up all of the values of each of the houses. And that's what you can see
underneath each of the houses. That's their individual value. Uh, so the city
in this scenario collects $1,500 in taxes. And so to get the tax rate, you
just take the $1,500 that the city receives, divide it by the total taxable
value, the 1.2 million, and then that gives you your tax rate with the 000125.
And then there in blue, uh, is the amount of property taxes that each of
these homes would pay. So that's year one. Then we go to year
two and the county performs another assessment and assigns the new uh value
to your home. So we have the same city, but you'll notice that the total taxable
value went from the 1.2 million up to the 1.65 million, but the city still
continues to collect that same $1,500, which means our tax rate decreases to
the 0.0091. So you can see in the blue the new
property tax bill of each home and then in red we'll show the difference from
year one to year two. So you'll see that first house even though the city didn't
increase taxes because their home appreciated at a different rate than the
city. Theirs actually went up $40 on their individual bill but house number
three and four had a decrease of $28 and the 2250. Uh so I know that can be
really confusing. If you have questions, I'm happy to break it down further. Um,
but those are just some reasons why your tax bill may fluctuate year-toear even
when the city doesn't go through the truth and taxation process.
Okay, so now looking at our um situation tonight, um how will it affect the
average resident? So the average resident has a market value of their
home of 610,000 and again remember a residential
property gets a 45% discount. So their taxable value is at $335,500.
Um so using the certified tax rate that the county gave us, uh the average
residential home would pay $381 in Centerville City property taxes. Um as
we've talked about tonight, we have a proposed increase of the 15.61% 61%
which would mean if adopted the average home would pay $440.85
which is an increase about $59 a year or less than $5 a month.
Um for businesses they pay or non primary residential uh properties uh
they do not get the discount. Uh the county has told us that the average
commercial value in Centerville is the 1,775,000.
Um, so without this tax or, you know, using the certified tax rate, they would
pay uh $2,18 and then with the proposed increase,
they would then pay two $2,332 uh which is an increase of about $314 a
year or about $26 a month for the average commercial property.
Okay. So, looking at our uh current financial situation,
uh looking at our governmental funds, uh we are heavily using our fund balance,
um which you will frequently hear referred to as our rainy day fund. Um so
as we compiled the budget um again we've been working on this since January
um internally as staff and then we first
presented it in our budget workshop uh to the city council uh at the end of
March in our budget retreat. Um and we've been refining it ever since then.
Uh so this is a big project. Um, but at the end of the day, we still had a
budget shortfall of about $1.5 million. Um, and so in our capital projects fund,
you'll see that we're using about $1.1 million
uh to complete our projects and to balance this budget. Um, now while every
year we do use some uh fund balance from our capital projects fund, uh that's to
be expected almost every year. Um but using it to this degree is certainly not
sustainable uh long term. So that's the concern that we have.
Um now we talk about service levels a lot. Um
so as I was preparing this and thinking how do we you know explain service
levels, I typed it into Google and the Google AI spit out this definition that
uh I liked. Uh so it says service levels in local government define the quality,
scope and performance of public infrastructure and programs delivered to
communities. They balance community expectations with available budgets,
staff capacity, and technical standards. So this balancing part is the
challenging part. That's why we're here tonight. Uh that's why we've been
working on this since January is trying to balance,
you know, what is the quality of life that our residents expect and how do we
provide that standard of living with our current resources. And it's not an easy
answer because everybody has a different opinion of how to get there. And that's
um why we as staff and council spend so much time uh working on this budget uh
to try to find that appropriate balance. Um,
so as I was thinking about the, you know, the average residential household
will pay if adopted $440 this year in Centerville city property taxes.
Um, so I thought about what benefits do our residents get for paying that $440.
Um, again, this is some of my opinion here, but uh, for that $440, you get
public safety responding to your call in a matter of minutes. And actually, if
this, uh, tax increase is adopted, we'll be able to hire an additional officer.
So, it actually increases that level of service. Uh, you get roads that are
well-maintained and very drivable in any type of vehicle. You get very
well-maintained sidewalks. Uh no matter where you live in the city, you can get
a park within walking distance of your home. Uh or if you want to go to a
different park, you can again drive there on those well-maintained roads
within a 10-minute drive. Uh you get use of a amenities like pickle ball courts,
tennis courts, basketball courts, playground equipments, walking and bike
biking paths, and even restrooms at most of those facilities. Uh you get events
like we just had at the 4th of July. You get movies in the park, uh the Christmas
light ceremony, uh the fall festival, the other events that the Whitaker
Museum puts on. And then with recreating, you get the hiking and
biking and off-road trails, and the list goes on. And you get all of this for
$440 uh in property tax. Um,
[snorts] now looking at this again, uh, some of these I would argue are
essential services like public safety and roads. Some of these certainly
aren't essential, um, like our events or even parks are certainly not essential
to government. However, I believe they do provide a significant benefit to the
community. Um, I know I went to the Fourth of July celebration and enjoyed
the fireworks and I went to the parade and [clears throat] saw the, you know,
10 20,000 people enjoying that. Uh, now is that an essential cost us
70,000? Is that essential? No, absolutely not. But do I think it
provided an excellent community benefit? Absolutely. So, as we look at this
budget, this again going back to this service level, this is what we're trying
to balance is the quality of life that our residents
want. Um, so as we think about trying to balance this budget, what are you asking
rhetorically, what are you willing to give up? Um,
we're trying to do everything we can with uh [clears throat] the resources
that we have and I think we have a really good team here at Centerville
between [clears throat] staff and elected officials that were able to come
to this balance. Um, so anyway, there's my there's my soap box for the night.
Um, but I do think we get a pretty good value for uh the amount of taxes that we
pay. Okay, so looking at this uh additional
property tax revenue um again it's about 369,000.
How will this be used? Uh these are the items that we listed in our property tax
impact statement. Uh so the first is the medical insurance increases for our
employees. This continues to rise every year. Um,
so this was uh about $83,41 worth uh was part of our reason for
increasing this uh for this property tax increase. The second item is the new
police officer position. Uh, and this $250,000 for that would include
uh the wages for a new officer and all the benefits uh plus the patrol vehicle
and all the associated costs like equipment and fuel, maintenance,
training, all of that. Uh, and this would help uh increase that service
level for the police department and their overall response capacity. And
then the final part is the assessment that we get from South Davis Fire. Um we
pay a total of what was it 1.2 millionish to the fire district. Uh they
have increased our rate uh that we have to pay to them by that $35,72
this year. Uh so that is the last part that makes up our uh reasoning for the
increase.
Okay. Okay. And then again, this uh public hearing tonight and the
resolution before you is also for the final budget. Um back in uh June, we had
to adopt the interim budget which was part of the new state laws this year. Um
so again, we've talked about our budget in length at various meetings. Uh, so I
won't go into all the details of the budget here, but just kind of hit the
highlights that we've projected our sales tax revenue to increase by about
2% going from 5.5 million to 5.6 million. Um, again, this budget does
include the property tax increase of 15.61%.
Uh, in our sanitation fund, we had the fee increase, $1 per garbage can that
was adopted back in June. Um and then this also includes using fund balance in
our capital projects fund our transportation fund, sanitation fund and
drainage fund uh to complete some of those capital projects. And then uh
finally we have the inner fund loan from our capital projects fund to our water
fund uh in in the amount of uh up to 2.4 million. Um, since the interim budget
was adopted back in June, uh, we haven't really had any changes. The only changes
that you'll see on the final budget are related to the property tax. So, when
the interim budget was adopted, we hadn't received the certified tax rate
from the county. Um, so now that we have the certified tax rate, uh, we've
updated that line to include our new growth. And then the other thing that
changed with property tax is that for the interim budget, the new state code
required that we put the additional tax revenue in a restricted account. Um, for
the final budget, since we'll have an adopted uh tax rate, I've combined that
into just a single property tax revenue line. So, you won't see that additional
restricted account anymore. Um and then because of that new growth, the
amount that we transferred to our capital projects fund has increased uh
by that same $37,000 equal to our new growth.
Okay. So again, our staff's recommendation uh is to adopt uh the
resolution setting the real personal property tax rate at 0001314 for the
general fund and adopt the other resolution adopting the final budget. Um
and just a quick note to remind you about our public hearing. We've had a
couple changes in state legislature this year um that says we must allow
everybody that wants to comment a reasonable time for comment. Um so I
think our our typical 3 minutes uh satisfies that. And then we must allow
uh virtual comments. Um so I know Jennifer is watching the Zoom. Um so if
anybody wants to comment online, they're able to. I think we're just going to ask
them to use the raise your hand function. Uh so we're not interrupting
each other. And then um we also had to allow written comments to be submitted
up until the end of the hearing and that's all been posted on our website
with instructions on how to do that. Um so anyway, that's all I have prepared
for you tonight, mayor. Are there any questions I can answer? So I want to
point out a couple things. First off, about your third or fourth chart, uh the
certified tax rate, um uh there it is right there. that for the
most part just for the people that are here for their knowledge to make it
clear that uh you see those uh years that it's declining
that's because uh probably property values have gone up right
» correct >> because uh in Utah and there's a few
other states like this I don't know how many your uh your property taxes will
stay the same other than what Nate showed those rare situations conditions
s um even if your property goes up or your property goes down that rate will
adjust. So the only way that your tax can be changed um by us or any of that
pie chart that uh he he showed the county, the school district, the sewer,
whatever is through a truth in taxation like this where you you increase the
rate. So um um as your property goes up, that rate's going down. So, your taxes
are staying the same unless you have the certified tax rate increase. The other
thing I wanted to point out, and Nate didn't cover this because it's not
really part of the the it is part of the meeting, but not part of his
presentation. Uh I just want to point out for those of you that haven't looked
at the budget, uh our budget for our city is not completely funded by
property taxes. We have a just under a $14 million budget. Uh and of that 2.7
million is property taxes. Obviously 5.6 billion is uh sales taxes. That's the
biggest one. Then you have you have building license fees. You have uh uh
franchise tax, that sort of thing. Um, and uh, I also want to point out that a
lot of the what you see going on and around the city right now, we do our
best to make sure we get grants wherever possible. That the construction on Main
Street, the construction on 400 East, we had pipes that were council approved
early in the year to do those projects and uh, um, a lot quite a bit of that
money comes from uh, grants we apply to as well too. But obviously some comes
from this and also improvements you see like pickle ball courts that went in uh
mo quite a bit of that was done through grants and then through the wrap tax
which the vote v voters approved years ago and they re uh they approved again
last year. So that stands for recreation and parks. So, uh there's money that
that goes to that for um uh that that type of purpose. So, I just wanted to to
bring that out um to you. Um one thing we didn't discuss is uh well, no, we did
discuss it, but did you go over of how much we're proposing
uh is proposed on the truth and taxation? Did you discuss the new
property tax impact schedule that the legislature requires us to do? I don't
know if that that's new for all of us. Uh that was a an exercise that we had to
all go through new. Now there it is right there. So we had the legislature
played around with all sorts of bills with property tax. Uh, one thing they
settled on was in this truth in taxation that we had to do these property tax
impact schedules. Even though there's could be increases in not could be,
there is uh increases in uh other areas as well too. We're required to pinpoint
areas of what the why the proposed property tax increase and where that
would go to. You could look at our budget uh uh and I'm I'm not necessarily
a big fan of this because uh of of of what legislature passed, but they were
doing their best because you could you could put a number of items here that
make up that 370,000. But uh our property tax impact schedule,
that's what it shows that uh this increase would go to 250,000 for
police and a new officer. That's that's just not the officer. That's that's a
vehicle that goes along with it, equipment, all that sort of thing. Uh
$35,72 to the fire assessment [snorts]
increase. And then uh medical insurance coverage uh for all the employees that
that's gone up and those total the almost 370,000. So that's what we have
pinpointed uh that the uses for. So um of where
these these funds would go to. So, um, other questions for Nate or
clarification that, uh, council wants to make or
staff wants to make.
Nothing. Okay. Um
I do uh so I guess at this point in time if there there's no further questions
uh I guess we could go to the public hearing part and hear uh from the public
that's it's your your opportunity to hear from you. Um and then uh we will u
uh re we'll take notes and we'll try to respond to your comments as as well as
we can uh and then we'll come back to have uh further discussion after that as
well too. So like I said this is a public hearing matter truth and taxation
property tax increase and fiscal year 2027 final budget. So uh that public
hearing is now open. All we ask is that you you state your name and where you're
from for the record of the >> And also, mayor, really quick, for those
on Zoom, if you'd like to comment, use the raise your hand feature on Zoom. So,
and then we'll call on you when we're ready. So, those that are on Zoom, I
don't know if you heard our recorder, Jennifer, but raise you do use the raise
your hand feature on Zoom, and I will have her look at uh uh those to to get
you as well, too. But, we're going to open it up first to those members of the
public that are here. So, that public hearing is now open.
» I'll be the guinea pig.
Good evening. My name is Doug Hansy. My wife and Judy and I live at one
residents of Centerville for the last 51 years. We live at 112 East Jennings
Lane. I'm 75 years old. I still work full-time. I own a technology business
that works with very large corporations and medium-sized businesses. And I have
customers in four major business segments. And I work with people from
the sea level down to line workers. My reason to being here is that is a a
massive frustration with property tax increases here and in the county and
it's the as a way of using to resolve budget uh needs and manage increasing
costs. My frustration should be echo with each of you who purchased a home
and as inflation drove up the value four to five times what you paid for that
home. uh it becomes a little aggravating. California used Prop 13 to
protect people with from drastic value increases that froze property tax
realistically to to the purchase price, not the appraisal price. I'm not a fan
of California government and consider one of the very few redeeming successes
of that state. Judy and I live in a home with a two-car garage we built in 1988,
which today would be absolutely impossible for us to afford to purchase.
Here is my harsh reality. I'm trying to retire uh and your property tax increase
added to the Davis County uh increase are more money there. That is more money
than I will make in retirement per month. Think about that for a moment.
the property tax is now going to be higher than my income per month. Uh your
t your truth and tax packet is very re revealing on page 94. Centerville has
had four tax increases since in the in the years 2017 through 2026. Four tax
increases for property tax. people at the at this rate center for leadership
is likely to continue increasing taxes every two and a half years. I said I
work with ma major medium to large companies in Utah and surrounding states
for for-profit businesses cannot spend money like a municipality does. They
have to make a profit which means working with equipment they have to
produce to use to make their products. For example, I have three customers. One
customer alone has 600 600 barcode printers to which they produce.
It's in an automotive b business. Uh they these printers are aged from 6 to
18 years but yet they run those printers continue to use those even though
they've been end of life and end of service life because they still uh
process the product properly. They don't run out and replace it just because a
new one is on the horizon. You can't make a profit when you do things like
that. You're all aware of the public works garage door openers issue. I'm I
have uh I had asked um Councilman Bangader and I I pushed him into a
corner and said, "Tell me about what's going on." I was dis I was dismayed when
I understood that the public works garage door opener that you had one that
failed and because of a supply chain problem, you couldn't get the door open.
So, uh, all of a sudden we decide we have to replace 10 door openers. 10 door
openers we have to replace. In business, we buy a spare unit. We put it on the
shelf. When it breaks, we fix it and then we order a spare replacement.
That's how we make a profit in business. Uh, in if we were to solve problems any
other differently, we wouldn't make money. It's the mentality it takes to be
profitable, not running to replace something just because it's aging. I
drive a 2017 Toyota Camry with 262,000 miles on it. I run to Sacramento for
business. I don't even think about roadworthiness. I get in the car and I
go. Why is it necessary in in our in our community that we need to replace
vehicles so frequently every 3 years or so? Consider the mileage. Consider the
replacement cost. Consider I'm talking about budget items, not just the
property tax. people with respect. I encourage that youth to think about
running a municipality more should be more like running a business. Employee
employees should be paid a cola increase like social security does. Even an
increase near inflation is considered reasonable. But high wage employees in
the city should never ever receive wage in price wage percentage increases
higher than the lowest employee does. Finally, property tax is not a solution
to your budget problems. And why um Centerville hosts major big box stores
which bring a lot of out of town. In fact, when I go into the into a big box
here, I don't see anybody from our community and I get around a little bit.
And uh I go I look at that the source of revenue coming in there. People do not
stop shopping because the sales tax goes up a little bit. I'd like you to go back
and consider the budget. I'm not asking about that items that were shown up here
for the property tax increase because I I I think that you need to go back and
look at wants versus barebone needs in your budget, your overall budget. Uh
again, with the exception of the public safety need like in the business world,
every employee of the city should consider how I how I improve my work
ethic with tools that I have. Most companies that I work with, major
companies have incentives for their employees where they if they come up
with a an inre increase in their performance, they get rewarded for it.
Uh that's how we succeed in business. Please let's recognize the importance of
this property tax thing. There are a lot of families in this community who bought
a house in the 40s, the 50s, and the 60s, who paid for that house, who worked
their heart out, and who never had a decent income their entire life. And now
we're rent now we are un ashamedly in the in the in Davis County the state of
Utah and in the city charging them a property tax rate on something that is
out so outside of the their income capability
to support the property taxes. Ladies and gentlemen, I respectfully ask
you to do not approve this property tax increase. I think you need to go back to
your budget and figure out how you find a way to re to cover those things that
you want to do. Lastly, I encourage you that you listen to people in the town.
Sincerely listen to the people in the town and not just the wellto-do
constituents or something that you think that you like or that you would want to
listen to those people. If they have different points of view, you might
learn something from them. Thank you for for your for your consideration and I
respectfully sign off. Thank you. [applause]
» Is there others that would like to comment?
My name is Craig Preston. I live in Centerville. I can't pass up the
opportunity to come before you. I see come around frequently. I just want to
give you perspective of where I'm coming from and my people
of my similar situation. Um, I've lived here in Centerville this time
for the past five years. And I don't know what you call it, but my property
taxes have gone up. I'm almost 33% in those five years. And this happens in a
couple of ways. One is, yeah, you talk about this these things. You got the
mosquito district this year going up 15%. You got South DA sewer going up.
You got the fire district going up 16%. Centerville city is asking for 15% more.
But then you also have new entities that are now taxing entities. It's not
the city, but it's the overall impact on me and and the city people and the the
people who own property. That's what's make my property taxes, I'm sure, go up.
I haven't gone back and looked at it, but it has gone up 33%. I lived at the
same house. U yeah, the county raises the level and I have questions about
that and we have little discussions every once in a while with them. We need
to understand that um I'm on a fixed income with social security. I get
probably an average of two to 5% a year and out of that Medicare goes up about
3%. So the net impact on me is about a 2% increase on my income. Um
uh so I I don't understand this no inflation effect somewhere is is built
in there and you do have an opportunity uh as was mentioned here in looking at
the city budget and what happens uh being involved in the general plans. Uh
I don't know how much that cost to pro produce and I don't know how much it's
going to cost to implement but you as a city council have control over that
expenditure. And all I can do is ask you to be very conscientious and not look at
it as just 15%. I mean 40 bucks a year or whatever it is
it's supposed to be, but that's not that my my portion on my house is going to be
up on that. Although $60 $61, but um my portion is going to be bigger than that.
It's not just a $61 a year here. But it's everybody's $61. And I'm I'm sorry
that I missed I saw Robin after the South Davis or the Yeah. South Davis
Fire Assessment. I was going to show up at that and found out that I had the
time wrong and nobody came. I don't know how much of an increase that is, but it
bothers me significantly that South Davis was fire is asking over a 16%
increase themselves and then coming to you the cities and asking for a
significant increase. That is outlandish. And that's one of those
things that I don't know. I can't remember when it was, but that's another
one that was separated out. We made a new taxing entity and who here we go.
Um, you know, this this fire district thing, that's not a big meeting. And
obviously when I found out that I was nobody came and I was just driving in
the parking lot as everybody else was driving out, I was very disappointed
that I'd missed that. So, I just wanted you to know that this is what it is. You
do have an impact and it's everybody's 15% impact that makes my taxes go up 33%
in 5 years on the same house. Everybody adds up. You just put it all together.
That's why please be conscientious. Be aware of what we're doing. Be reasonable
in what you're doing when you implement this general plan u and how you spend
the money. uh it's your money but it's out of my pocket and uh I would like to
have some input on it and thank you. >> Thanks. [applause]
» Uh others that are in person.
» Hi, I'm Diane Witten. I live on Center Street in Centerville
and I just want to reiterate how important
it is to stick with a budget because my salary doesn't increase if I need
something. All the prices have increased in everything. Groceries are outlandish.
Gas is outlandish. I'm barely making it by. And I know I'm not the only one. And
I can't go to my boss and say, "Hey, I need an increase in my raise. I I don't
get it. I I've already plateaued in my work. I'm not going to get an increase
at all. And so if there's an increase in my grocery budget, I have to cut down on
something else. I can't just keep going how I am. And so I'm asking that you
really seriously take a look at the budget and say, is this a necessary
expenditure or is this a want? because there is a
huge difference in that and I know there's some underlying padding going
on. I took over doing my dad's bills and the Centerville city bill for his
household of one person and my city household bill for three people with a
son who uses the hot water heater for every shower were exactly the same to
the penny every single month. So there there is some padding going on
underneath. And you know, if you're going to do
that, it tells me that there's a little bit of discrepancy in what can we get
away with. I would like to see more honesty. I
would like to see some serious budgeting because that's what I have to do.
That's literally what I have to do.
I I don't want to see any more increases.
I'm saving every month trying to afford taxes.
My house is paid for. I'm saving every month to pay for insurance on the house,
too. And then if I have a medical problem
come up, that comes right out of my savings account for the taxes. And I'm
scrambling to save enough for taxes. again.
It shouldn't have to be this hard to live in such a good community.
It really shouldn't. We've got good people here and I'd like
to keep it that way, but it it's it's outpricing it's outpricing people. And
instead of saying how much lower are we than other cities in taxes, I'd rather
have us look at what can we do to be even lower and make it more affordable
for our citizens to live here. I'm happy to do away with some
amenities. I I volunteer to pick up trash on
trails. I've done that before. I'm happy if our community reaches out
to, you know, does a community clean up instead of asking for the parks and, you
know, other public servants to clean up. I think we can we can step up and
volunteer if that helps cut money in a place that can be cut and then that
money can be pushed over to where you really need it. Anything to save some
money so we don't have to raise taxes would be really appreciated. Thank you.
» Thanks. [applause]
» Anybody else that's uh present?
Do >> we have any raised hands online?
» No raised hands. We have two folks online. One online now, but haven't seen
a raised hand. >> So, no comments uh from online.
Okay. Seeing uh nobody else uh from the audience or
online that uh wants to comment, I will close the public hearing and let's see
if we can't uh respond to some of your questions. Um
uh first off, I'm going to call uh something that Diane said in regards to
tax rates on water fees. Can we help out there? Help her explain help her
understand those how those water fees work.
» Nate's got you. >> This isn't part of property tax, by the
way. Water fees are separate from property tax, but he can give you a feel
of how how the water fees work. >> Yeah. So, uh for water, uh everybody's
meter gets read once a month. uh and that determines how many thousands of
gallons uh of water has gone through that meter. Um so every
uh house will get there's two parts to your water bill. There's a base rate uh
and that'll vary based well so it's the same for every of the similar size of
the meter. So all 3/4 in meters will pay roughly $35 in a base fee. And then your
usage is the second component. Um, so depending on how much you use, there's a
multiplier, uh, I think the first tier, so from zero to 5,000 gallons, I think
it's somewhere around $160 per thousand gallons. Um, so if you feel like, uh,
you mentioned you're uh you have one situation where there's one person in
the house versus multiple people in the homes. Um, one situation could be that
you have a leak going on. Uh you'd be surprised at how much a dripping faucet
or a running toilet can consume of water. Um so if you have a concern about
a leak, please call us and we can our public works our water department can go
out and help determine if you have a leak or not. Um so that's something that
we can help you with. Or if you have other general questions about your bill,
uh please call us. We're happy to answer those questions.
So that helps uh with with water fees. Uh helps you understand there. Doug, I'm
not a fan of how California runs their government either, but one thing that
you mentioned uh yes, they did freeze property taxes
for existing homeowners, but anybody new that's buying a home make makes up for
that. >> That's correct.
» So you pay the tax.
» Yeah. So So it's >> it's murder for the the new people that
are buying. So, you know, there there's there's So, I'm not going to comment one
way or the other, but that that I just want that to be known. Um, council, what
other things that were brought up that that we we could answer?
» I'll touch on the Prop 13 if that's okay. A little bit more, mayor. I do
have a mother-in-law or my in-laws are in California and and Prop 13, the grass
is not always greener. As I analyze their utility bill or their property tax
bill compared to their neighbors, they pay 100% of their property taxes. So
when the gentleman next door moved in at $700,000, he pays $7,000 a month or a
year for his property taxes while they continue to pay $1,800 a month. But they
have so much debt because they have no money from the property taxes that their
property taxes are are quite a bit because of the the bonds that they have
to take out because they don't have any money. The biggest downfall of the Prop
13 is that when you leave the county, you then pay that new rate. So, you pay
that higher amount in the new county. But what's one thing that doesn't move
counties, and that's commercial businesses. So, Disneyland hasn't moved.
So, their property taxes have been frozen. So, the residents are stuck
filling in that gap of what commercials left behind. So, right now, there's a
lot of legislation in California to undo the damage that Prop 13 has done. Just
want to throw that out there. >> Other things that were brought up,
council, that staff that I might be missing to help answer their their
questions as they commented. >> We had a question about the garage
doors. Can you just clarify the amount of doors? It seems like we reduced it.
» Yes, we did. We are not replacing all of them. I think we're only doing two if I
remember right. >> Garage doors went from four to two. And
one of the arguments that has been shared is that leaving it on the shelf
is is definitely an opportunity, but you lose the warranty if it's sitting on the
shelf. So buying it um and installing it, you you get the warranty whether
it's one year or limited warranty. And so if you have it on the shelf, then you
lose that warranty. >> I'm not I'm just making an argument of
one of the reasons why it's important. >> Sure.
» Ridiculous objection. >> I understand.
» Businesses large businesses can put them on the shelfy
They still put on make it work and buy again.
» Let let us continue. >> We're we're not just debating back and
forth. We're just let's just answer the questions for now. Doug,
» um another question was uh a discussion on replacing vehicles. Um do you want to
address that? Um, so one of the advantages of of local government, we
have access to state contract pricing, which is pricing that is better than
what's available to the public. So there's a balance that you try to strike
when purchasing a new vehicle and selling of that vehicle. The longer you
hold on to it, the less value it has. So there's a balance that you try to retain
as much value. and we analyze when's a good time to sell it to retain its value
to recover as much as we can in its value to help purchase the new one
because we have access to state contract pricing. So that's I don't know Nate if
you have anything else to add to that. >> Yeah. No, I don't have the numbers off
the top of my head but uh that model has served us well. Uh we just sold um the
couple vehicles in public works that were about four years old. Um, and the
difference between our purchase price and our sale price was only a couple
thousand dollars. >> It's $500 a year and essentially in the
leasing of that vehicle. >> So, when we can sell a vehicle at the
right time where it's still somewhat new,
» you're able to get use out of it, but still recoup your original purchase cost
almost. Um, and I think our our team's done a good job at trying to balance
that. Now certainly there's vehicles that get
a little more use like our parks vehicles. Those certainly do not get
replaced um like our admin vehicles would.
» And of course the value with that is less maintenance cost. So with a smaller
fleet mechanics or contracting out for [clears throat] those services. We're
not replacing tires, we're not replacing brakes uh or anything like that. So you
in the long run uh the the cost of maintenance is less with that
» and most major repairs are done under warranty.
» I have just a couple of things I'd like to say.
Number one, I started where you are. So when you talk sometimes it's emotional
for me because I was where you are. I've got you beat. I drive a 2005 car.
So, there's probably not many people that are tighter than I am. And if you
don't believe me, I'll give you my kids' phone numbers because
growing up, they were never allowed to drink a soda pop. And they never go to a
restaurant now. But what they don't order soda pop because their mother
never let them have a soda pop in a restaurant. So, I'm pretty tight. I've
been on the council for 10 years. I have voted against property tax increase and
I have voted for property tax increase, but I'm pretty fussy over
what I'm going to vote for. So, I look at it and I think it's hard. Sometimes
you see what the property tax p is and this was where I was and I'm like, come
on guys, find some things to cut back. But what you don't realize is we have
just like they said we went from four garage door openers to two garage door
openers because we were kind of like you. We're like we're a little iffy on
that one. But you know we we worked with our employees and and we did this is not
everybody's wish list. We don't let everybody come in and say you know what
do you want this year? What do you need this year? And so what you're seeing is
they have brought in their wish list and Brandt cuts it way back and then we cut
it back further so that you know it isn't. Do I worry about people paying
their property taxes? Very very much so. I live in the older part of Centerville,
so I live by some older people whose property taxes are going up and and it's
really hard for them to pay them. And I have my own feelings, but all I can
control is the city. I'd really like to see something done for the older people
who've paid taxes their whole life. But then again, it's like California. If we
lower the the older people's the younger people's go up, did I have more money
then? I'm on a very fixed income. Do I have money now? So, that's another thing
I think we also need to remember when you're asking us to cut things back. I
have people say to me, "Well, you put this in you put the pickle ball courts
in." The people of Centerville voted for that. It's a wrap tax, which tells me
they want the parks. they want the different amenities in their city. And
so when they vote for that wrap tax, it it does tell me that they that they do
want that. Um when you talked about the vehicles a while ago, the sewer came out
and they were driving and I don't remember what they were called, but my
husband came right home and wanted one. The fanciest pickup truck out there.
[clears throat] I called the city or the sewer department right up and I'm like,
"What are you thinking?" Well, they informed me that the resell value of the
really fancy trucks was a lot better than the other one. So, did I agree with
everything they were doing? No. But then the city brought us this and after being
on here for 10 years, I can tell you our maintenance costs are going down. I'm
shocked when they come in on a state uh contract. We buy the vehicles at a
really good price, but then we sell them to the average person. So, we are only
losing a couple thousand dollars on them and we have no
um maintenance on them. I mean, we're not having to fix. They're still under
warranty. So, you know, that that helps. Um
trying to make sure I get everything. Uh just and this doesn't do with the tax
increase, but on your water bill. I know. I was just helping a neighbor with
theirs who's unfortunately had a leak and they've paid $700 more in the last
two years and didn't even know they had a leak. So, I've been trying to help
with them, but I was interested to know that we're charged by to by the thousand
a gallons that we use and the first 5,000 is $168
per gallon. So if you're using >> thousand gallons. So if you're using
10,000 gallons more than you said uh a relative, it's
only going to save you or cost you $168. But I want to keep that that way because
I don't want to charge people. Now, if you've got a swimming pool and you can
afford all of that, then I think we should charge this higher end. But then
I come up with the concern about these poor people that didn't really
understand the water bill. What would it have been if we'd have been charging
them more? So, I'm trying to figure out how we can charge more bigger water
users, but make sure that it isn't the leaps of the people that we're charging.
So, I do want you to know that I care very much. Um, I think it's very
important that we have a police officer. I I think I've gone out and talked to a
lot of citizens. This is kind of a hard one to say, but as you can see, we don't
have a lot of people here. So, I think a lot of people are feel like we're doing
a pretty good job. It's frustrating to me that this room isn't full.
I think if we've got a tax increase, we should be hearing from 500 of you
instead of just a few. But the other my only other thing is you
have to know when I talk to my um department heads and I talked to Mike
from public works and he tells me that pipe is now, you know, 10 times more
than it was 10 years ago. Well, I understand that because my food is, but
somehow we have to still fix the water leaks. We have to have wages that
compete with the employees. I mean, our employees wages I I look at sometimes,
I'm thinking, wow. But on the other hand,
I pay, you know, more for anybody that comes and does anything for me. I want
to keep our good employees. We have excellent employees here.
Uh, I don't think our health our health insurance is anything that's debatable.
We don't have a choice on our fire department
and I am happy to pay an extra $5 a month if it's going to bring the police
department to our homes faster. I've had my elderly
mother living with me and I've called the police department and the fire
department my fair share of times in the last seven years. So, I don't want
anybody to walk out of here and think I don't care. I have pushed back. I have
asked them to cut back. We have told our police officers in 10 years they asked
for a new police officer at the beginning of the budget season every
year and sometimes they wanted to. We've told them no. We've told them no. We've
told them no till we feel like it's now affecting our police officers because
they're having to work more. So, I'm finally giving in to that police
officer. In 10 years, I've approved one police officer. So, this will be my
second police officer I've approved. I'm not just giving out the farm. Like I
said, you'll find out I'm tight with the city, tighter than the employees would
like me to be, and I'm tight at home. So, you know, I just want you to to
understand that this is a hard position and I understand it more now because I
was for 20 years I was out there sitting where you are. But I do fight really
hard to keep your taxes down. That's why they're going up an average of $5 a
month instead of more because if we were giving them
what they wanted, it would be a lot more. And it is concerning that we're
having to take into our rainy day fund. And something I don't know if they want
me to tell you or not, but a lot of that rainy day fund came from CO money from
the federal government. So it will run out. Hopefully we won't have another CO.
So that's where we were able to build up
our funds. >> Thanks, Councilman Mum. So, I just in
full in purposes of full disclosure, maybe council or Nate or Brand or Lisa
uh or the chief, one of you can help me. So, we have this new property tax impact
schedule uh and we have in front of us that the the just under 370,000
and we're saying that we're short 1.5 million. We're going to take 1.2
million. I'm rounding here. 1.17 million from fund balance and 370,000 with the
tax increase. We came we came up with some schedule beforehand that showed we
could do 370 elsewhere, but this is what we submitted to the state. So my
question is this is obviously the medical increases are going to happen or
have the South Davis fire assessment increase is there. It's a reality. We're
two months into our fiscal year. Uh and uh my question is this is if we do not
hire that police officer in the next by next the end of next June 30th
uh like I said I just want full disclosure is that something that uh
we're penalized by the state for uh you know because we haven't followed our
property tax impact schedule or uh anybody anybody had know the situation
there are we required to spend the money that we put on the property tax impact
schedule within our next fiscal year. >> That's a good question. One I haven't
put a lot of thought into. >> I may if I mayor I did make a couple of
phone calls and no not again kind of as we discussed earlier. No, there are no u
penalties for not implementing exactly what we have. As long as we're making a
good faith effort to hire uh an officer, then we're okay. The the challenge, of
course, the drawback is if it's used as an anecdotal
um at the state legislature saying, "Hey, look, we gave them this tool and
and and Centerville says they're going to hire a police officer and they
didn't, so we need to get more strict or change the legislation to really uh get
into a little bit more. That that's a possibility, but again, highly unlikely.
I think the whole entire point of this was to be more transparent, which this
this property tax impact schedule is frustrating in terms of that it's
somewhat misleading to the residents in my mind of what we're increasing tax for
because there's so many other reasons why we're increasing it. This only shows
369,000 when ultimately we experienced easily identifiable about $670,000 for
the property tax increases we could have justified with this increase with all
the inflation. Right? So, this is what we're submitting, but it doesn't
necessarily capture the 1.5 million shortfall we're experiencing alto
together and what we need to make up for that um deduction. So, we're not going
to be penalized this this year. However, does it create the argument at the state
legislature that they revise the rules and and code to force us to take a
different approach? That's a possibility, but I think it's
justifiable for us. We made the attempt if we didn't try to recruit an officer,
then that definitely looks shady. Right. >> Right. And that's why I preface my
question with we could have we could have put a dozen different items here to
make up the shortfall, you know, but this is what we chose for the property
tax impact statement first year for this for uh I'm repeating myself again to the
state and I just uh if you don't come through on what you're saying uh that's
that's what I wanted a question >> and what we picked mayor I think is is
justifiable in terms terms of we're talking about a new position and as we
discussed earlier there's a difference between a funded position and an
unfunded position. This is going to be a funded position. Therefore, I believe
it's fiscally responsible for us to fund the position. We have building
custodians that are unfunded positions [clears throat] approved by council.
[cough] But we're talking about a new ongoing expense uh that is going to
carry forward and putting in here potentially a software program that we
use one year and then taking and we don't continue forward. I think that's
more misleading to the the public. These are ongoing uh justifiable and as I've
shared with council in the past, anytime we have a new expense, we need that new
revenue to support that new expense, particularly a new police officer is the
argument. South Davis Fire Assessments, we've been seeing well every year since
we we joined with South Davis Fire and and before we've been able to absorb
these increases with property or sales tax increases or other revenues. Um but
sales tax is not increasing. Postcoid spending habits have sta have changed
substantially and and that has caused our sales tax to to be somewhat stagnant
with only an increase of 2% this year is what we're forecasting. Um so again,
we're kind of in this new normal of figuring out what the spending habits
will be and what our revenues will be, but our expenses keep skyrocketing with
whether it's pipe or asphalt or equipment or whatever the case might be.
So, we we've been able to do a good job of absorbing those increases. It's now
starting to come to a head. As I've jokingly said in the past, we found all
the change in the couch cushions um and found where we can make sure that we're
a little bit more tight in some areas and reduced our expenses in others.
Department heads, I really appreciate what they have done going this through
this exercise with me to make sure that we keep our increases um as minimal as
possible this year. But we have found all the change in our couch cushions and
and but a new police officer, that's a whole different ballgame. That's that
has to have its own revenue source to be sustainable. Anyway, sorry, I could keep
going, but I'll stop there. >> While we're there, mayor, may I
[clears throat] >> make a couple of comments with respect
to that. First of all, I I applaud our [clears throat]
our state legislature for for trying to provide a revenue in the truth and
taxation law where expenditures and designations for what that increase is
being guided toward uh are to go for so that our public knows. I I do and I I
understand the complicity of how many items are increasing in our city and
we're identifying three here. Okay. I I will say and I I want to say this
because we have a state representative here in our audience, but uh when I'm
I'm a little worried and and frankly concerned that when we choose which ones
we identify there, of course, it's palatable to the public that medical
insurance is increasing. We got to raise taxes to cover it. uh medical insurance
has probably increased every year for the last 20. We've been able to absorb
the increase in the insurance with our tax rates until now. It is increasing.
We got to cover that somehow. But but why did we pick that one to put on the
list? That worries me a little. That that's a real palatable one. Of course,
the South Davis Fire Assessment, the fire department has been necessitating
and requested assessments to us for years. We've absorbed those assessments
in other years. And so to include just those I love that we're getting more
more transparent. I think we can get even better by doing things that are
that that enhance the transparency because there are some areas this
council knows very well as we've been through audit or budget debating that
that Councilman Banganger is not going to be supporting this increase. Uh and
there are reasons that I believe we could tighten our belt in areas I've
suggested 132,000 of them. very little of that was was acceptable to to the
other members of the council, which disappoints me. But I appreciate like
what Robins just or council member Mikum has just pointed out, there are some
legitimate needs. I would be supporting a tax increase for a police officer. Uh
I [clears throat] I have I have vetted I've looked into that
thoroughly. I I understand the number of reasons the chief has pointed out and I
give public safety a huge priority in governmental provision of services to a
city or or county or whatever. And the sentiment in our country of defund the
police just aggravates most all of us with rational thinking. And and so there
is a sentiment that that's turned to where maybe we need to support our first
responders, especially our public safety and police officers. And given the
situation Centerville's in with having to cover shifts that are uncovered, the
the increase in the need for public safety with our big box stores and more
vandalis more uh what is it? Uh uh it's not vandalism, it's uh theft.
shoplifting. There's the word. And and those things. Uh I I want our city safe
and I want our officers safe and have enough. So I can see that I I would have
supported a smaller increase that would have included the ability for us to get
a police officer. Uh some of those other areas. And by the way, Nate, you you
pointed out well some of the services that are provided by our city, there are
some that are are decreasing. Uh Centerville City used to be able to
provide a cemetery plot for residents who passed away. We can't provide that
anymore and we've had a citizen vote on that who supported a bond to even do it.
And the challenge there not been lack of desire. Property acquisition is a big
deal. But that's a that's a an attribute or a service that our city
doesn't provide anymore. There are other areas of our city where I think we could
we could do some some belt tightening and I we've done a little uh I think we
could do more. So So I want the the public to understand I wish more people
were here. It would be so helpful to understand their perspective and for
theirs to understand our difficulty in trying to meet these needs and our
frustration when it is seemingly seen as wants but sometimes appropriately
identified as wants rather than needs. And I wish we could uh I wish it was an
easy choice to make. It's never an easy choice to make. Uh but for those reasons
and then some of the things I do believe we need to do haven't been incorporated
into our budget. I I I want to mention one other thing. Uh I applaud staff for
identifying it hasn't been brought up once here tonight about the impact of
this increase on our business community. uh staff went to some extra effort and
Paul or or uh legislator Cutler uh if you'd be aware when when the truth in
taxation notice went out and it identified how much an average home in
Centerville would increase it used the same number for a business. It used the
a number of average home $660,000 or something. Okay, a business at 660 would
pay it was about $100 more. Well, the fact of the matter is, thank you staff
for identifying as my request that that the average business in Centerville
values property-wise 1.7 million. So, the impact on on the average business in
Centerville is 316 $369.
uh that's a big difference and to any businessman and then it's compounded
that doesn't that's not an expense you pay this year and you're done with it as
we raise taxes that's an expense they will pay from here going forward forever
because taxes we know never go down and then it compounds as they're raised
going forward so our but our businesses aren't here I get it you know they're uh
they most of them were only thinking they're paying $100 more because the the
notification was a little bit misleading, but uh but that's
[clears throat] that's where we're at for that reason. And then and then our
city uh I also want to point out for those who
are forthright and taking enough time to be here tonight, you know, this isn't
the only increases. Our water bill in this budget's going up 7%.
And last year, storm drain fees went up 50%.
And uh there are there are challenges, needs that need to be met. Sometimes we
need to tighten our belt a little tighter. I know I'm the old guy on the
council. I'm conservative and I and I I live with some some thoughts from the
past and I know expenses are greater in this day and age.
I I'm one who believes that incremental races are more palatable and more
appropriate than big large 15
point whatever percent is a large increase. Cola being at 2.9 I I think
there's justification for some incremental maybe yearly but I I I will
not be supporting our our proposed budget or or
» Thanks, Councilman Banger. For point of discussion, and I don't I don't want to
be competitional, but but I do want to ask you one thing. Uh you did identify
$132,000 in areas where we could cut within our
budget. And some of that we did cut, but let's pretend that we didn't cut any of
that. Okay. Then 132,000 is about exactly what medical insurance increases
and South Davis fire assessment increases are just a little bit more. So
uh you just stress for us how important and police officer position is you
support it. So does that on that based on that theory would you support a 10
to cover the the the police salary? >> Would that cover the police officer
allocation? Brand >> uh 10 to 12. Yeah, about 10 roughly
[clears throat] >> because let's say that you got all that
132,000. We did take some of it. But let's say you got all that and we've
we've that that would still leave the police that you ought to support. So
that leaves like he says 10 to 12%. Then we'd still have to inc uh in do a tax
increase for >> to fully fund that with with this
budget, >> right? with with an increase to fully
fund it with an increase >> because I just throw that out to you
because that sure is an option out there. Uh just if if that's important to
you to state that hey I could support a police increase and a 10 to 12% but not
a 15%. You know so >> with that mayor I I appreciate that but
also I'd need some direction from council where you're cutting that
additional amount from in the budget today.
» Right. Yeah. Right. I'm I'm just I'm just stating that that this that uh just
in in theory if you did that we didn't eliminate those 132,000. We eliminated
some of it. I'd have to go back through the notes of that.
» And to clarify that that part of that was the garage door openers
that have come up tonight. When they were first presented, it was nine garage
door openers for $20,000. Okay. Now, we did come down, but I I
just You said four to two. That's not quite accurate.
» I >> I do I do want to share, but you're
talking about one-time expenses, right? So, that's why we have fund 47s for
those onetime expenses. So, 20 grand is going to go away next year. So, again,
we're trying to focus on the items that are an ongoing expense that we see
year-over-year, not one-time expenses. Buying a new vehicle is a onetime
expense, right? So, new police officer is a year-over-year commitment. And so
focusing on the property tax should be focused on that year-over-year
commitment. You if this exercise has taught us anything, which I actually
Nate and I have talked about this, we we actually appreciated this exercise of
the property tax impact statement because it gave us an opportunity to
really sit down and look at those increases and then really sit down and
say, can we do without? And the answer is, well, no, that's what we presented.
We already have done without. We've already cut where we possibly can cut.
But so when you're talking about reducing it, we have a $ 1.5 million
shortfall and it does include the fund 47 one-time projects in that budget. The
issue [clears throat] that we're faced with, Nate, you'll have to tell me what
the number is. We we need our general fund to help fund those one-time
expenses as year-over-year because we we do buy
two police vehicles a year. And so even though it's a one-time expense, it's
kind of an ongoing expense. And so we need the general fund budget to cover
those those schedules, those rotations that we've built in to make sure we
replace those vehicles so they don't get too worn out. Um things like that. So
really we're trying to do our best to to take the general fund that we have left
that we transfer to fund 47 for the capital projects, but that is overtime
dwindled and now we have to use a lot more of the fund 47 to balance this
budget, which is not sustainable. So again, when you're looking for things to
cut, we're talking about ongoing less parks maintenance, less road repair.
We're talking about less public safety, which is a huge, not trying to pick on
you, chief, but that's $5 million. That's that's half of our budget. And so
labor is definitely the most expensive part of our budget. So when you're
talking about trying to cut where we need to cut, that's what we're talking
about. Not whether we buy a garage door opener or 10 or 100. Agree. It's about
those ongoing expenses to run the city that we're required to do. So,
» and others opportunities for that which we never addressed
are the possibility of a smaller increase for our our employees. And
» but we're doing a compensation study this year, right, to see where we are.
And I think it's really critical before we make any knee-jerk reactions, we we
do need to compare what other cities are doing because that's who we're losing
our employees to. And you have to be very careful because employees are our
number one asset. You start losing employees, it becomes really difficult
to maintain a culture. I don't want to throw a city on the bus, but there's a
city in Weber County that experienced a pretty high tax rate that have had
challenges with employee turnover. And once that starts turning, it's really
difficult to overturn. We have a great community. We have great staff. And so
it is critical that we protect our staff. We don't need to be the best
paying in the state, but we also don't want to be the lowest paying that we're
losing our employees to other communities. We want to be fair, fair
enough that they stay here because we do have great employees. But that's what
we're trying to protect here. We're not trying to be the highest paid. We're not
competing against those cities. We just want to make sure we reward those that
have devoted their time to Centerville. >> And council, I I apologize. We have been
through all these discussions previously through our budget hearing. this my
fellow council members know where I stand. We differ in opinion on some of
these things. I think with the police officer, maybe we we we go with that.
Okay, maybe we buy one. We use one of the older cars for the new police
officer this for this year and then next year your budgets are in a different
situation. I just there are ways I don't want to go down rabbit holes of every
expenditure. We don't have time or or the ability to do that tonight, but I
generally that's that's where I'm at. I wanted to make that identified and
» we did do that over six sessions which are all open to the public as well too.
Mhm. >> And I respect all of of everything you
said and if you've seen I'm more on the conservative side, but I also have seen
over 10 years if we lose an employee it by the time we get them up and get them
trained, we've lost more money. So, I'd rather pay our employees a little bit
more and keep them than being paid for what I feel like is nothing because this
employee is all trained, does a great job, and I've got to bring this one. I
mean, but probably nine out of 10 police officers we hire have absolutely no
police experience at all. And we're paying to send them to the uh
» academy >> academy. And the thing about that is it
used to be when my son first wanted to be a police officer, he was up between
150 people for every job. And so he didn't go there because and now it's
really hard to hire a police officer. And like I said, probably at least eight
out of 10 of them don't even have any police experience. So, am I gonna lose a
eight-year, a 10y year, a 15year police officer over a percentage of increase
compared to having to hire somebody, pay them their wages, send them to the
academy. That kills me. I feel like I'm paying for nothing. So, I'd rather pay
for the good commodity I have than the unknown commodity that I might be
getting because it cost me a lot to get them up there. I think because of the
experience that we have with staff, we we run a pretty lean staff and we're
able to do that because we do have some significant experience that I mean some
of those people are going to start retiring and I'm I'm worried for us. But
um you did mention the cola increases that maybe it should have been less. I I
felt like it's not that I didn't hear you or agree with you. I just happen to
agree with the city manager that we want to be very careful about that until we
do that rate study because we will be in a situation that we cannot return from
very easily. I also want to comment on um I I do appreciate that when um I
challenged you to find where we would cut in the budget that you did find
$132,000. I didn't totally agree with every item.
You're right. We don't always agree, but that didn't accommodate for the 369,000
and it didn't accommodate for this the total of the 700,000 which um Brandt is
right. We had more than that. We just opted to use the rainy day fund. Um also
I want to make one comment on the cemetery. Yes, the the voters did vote
for a cemetery. That bond would increase our property taxes. We are not paying
for that right now. So that is, you know, that is a concern for me that we
that we also watch that. Um people voted for it. We're looking for
options, but we have to be very careful with that because that would be a
significant ad onto the property tax potentially. Um
I do want to mention I'm a member of the rec district. The bond for that building
did drop off this year. So, not I mean, we did have one thing go off of the
property property tax bill. Um, when we talk about fees, um, I totally agree
with you, council member Bangader, that we should do those slowly and smaller
increases are easier to absorb. In the case of the storm drain fees, those went
on for many, many years without an increase. And that's what happens when
we don't get those increases. Um, as far as water, because I worked for um the
state division of water resources, I have watched very carefully what we're
charging for our water fees. They have a formula that they use when they do loans
for cities and they go into the affordability and we are meeting and are
under the affordability for residents in Centerville. Now,
that's a a modified adjusted gross income. It's not going to be the lowest
income in the city, but it is that's probably
the best that we can do. But at the end of the day, I will I can't apologize for
making sure that we provide safe, reliable water. That is none of us are
going to survive for more than three days without it. So, that is really
something that we have to consider. I do want to also add that our staff um I was
in a committee meeting a couple of weeks ago with one of our committees and um
Brandt is really good at cutting stuff out of the budget before we see it.
Something that we thought was in the budget got cut this year. So [laughter]
» Oh, sorry. >> I do want to say that I do I do
appreciate that it's not an overly inflated budget when it gets to us. And
yes, we do cut into it. We we have gone through and tried to cut what we can. Um
so I just I >> on average just Thanks for that, Council
Member Hurst. On average, it's about $1.2 million that Nate and I go through
the budget and cut out. This year was actually pretty awesome. They did a good
job submitting as tight of a budget as they possibly could. And so I appreciate
that. And you're right about the cemetery. the cemetery when rates the
interest rates were good was about $70 a year for that cemetery bond. Now the it
will be a revenue generator, but you have to be very careful about the
revenue generation being because you well you'd have to figure out that
policy about how much you charge for any uh plots. If you want to make it as sex
accessible to the public as possible, your rates have to be low, but then
you're not covering the costs. And >> but don't we have to guarantee it with a
property tax? the bond has to be on a property tax.
» No, it's a it's a general obligation bond. But nonetheless, it's just again
something to be mindful of as I've discussed with you all is that I
everybody wants something and you have all these demands all over the place,
but nobody wants everything. So, you're trying to find the balance of
accommodating so many different interests in this community and because
you do have people who want more outdoor space, but then you have people who
says, "Please, we just got a quiet neighborhood we don't want to do
anymore." So you got all these competing interests and and the issue is there's
only only so much um income out there with our residents and you got to
balance that. So if we do a cemetery then that potentially cuts away from
potentially more open spaces for our kids or a police officer or public
safety because you can't do a $70 increase for cemetery and then on top of
that have another property tax increase for roads and then another property tax
increase for parks and there's only so much money. And so that's as we go
forward, that's what you're all trying to decide is is how we prioritize all
these different wants in our community. And and Centerville has done a really
good job being as fiscally conservative as possible. I think we've done a really
good job and and staff does a really good job being mindful of that fiscal
conservativeness. We have an excellent staff who always trying to find ways to
get grants. Mike's getting millions of dollars of grants on road projects,
water projects, drainage projects that our residents don't see that and we
don't have increases. We've been able to absorb these increases in the fire
assessment and all these areas because Nate and I have gone through the budget
and said, "Look, there's there's 20 grand." The the padding that was I
wouldn't necessarily say there's a whole bunch of padding, but if there's any any
areas where we feel like historically that we are not spending that much,
we'll take that 20 grand away or that $500 away. Nate's Nate loves it when I
do that. When I find $100, being like, "Hey, we're cutting this hundred bucks."
So that's what we have done in the seven years I've been here is finding those
little pockets, but it doesn't change the fact that inflation has increased
drastically, especially after co and that's that's the crux where we're at
right now is that we have found the areas our budget is so dang good and
tight that we know where things are going. Um there's not a lot of padding,
but that means we can't absorb these increases anymore. The increases have to
be revenue revenue has to match the increases. So, council, uh, we've, I
believe, have tried to answer, uh, the questions that were brought up in the
public hearing. Uh, you've all had a chance to
» I would like just >> the comment other other than Councilman
Palmer, and I'll let you comment, [laughter]
» but I'm trying to get us back to what we got to get back to. We have two
resolutions in front of us uh that we have to decide on tonight. Started this
meeting, I said we have, this is what we discussed in this meeting. We we don't
discuss other all all this relates. I'm not saying we're not staying on topic,
but but let's get back to these two resolutions. Councilman Plamer, yes. Not
heard from you. And >> thank you. Thank you. I don't have a
lot. >> Want to give you your floor time.
» I don't have a lot because really what's been said is how I feel. I I I would
like to sustain what uh Councilman Member Mikum has said, what council
member Bangader has said. Uh, I I I I agree with so much of what you say. Uh,
I appreciate Council Member Hurst's questions and I I I would just like to
say that I I I [cough] understand and I feel for our um
residents. I too uh feel that sometimes our taxes are uh feeling uh like they're
they're getting out of control as we start seeing 33% increases over 5 years.
uh sir I I absolutely feel that that is something that we need to uh
take a look at and perhaps that's something that uh you know at the state
level uh you know when uh people reach a certain age or uh
people's uh income such as social security that's taxed things of that
nature can be looked at at the state level to um allevate ate some of those
uh taxes at certain times in our lives. And so I think that um from that
perspective, we can say that we can only hope for some uh change uh
at the state level. But at this point in time, I would like to say that
uh over the last few years and getting to know the people that work in the
city, they are very honest and they do due diligence to uh make
sure that we are not frivolously spending money uh that we are uh doing
the right thing with our the taxpayers's money uh focusing in on public safety
and the roads and the uh infrastructure underneath the roads that are is so
important to our uh way of life and our our standard of living. And I believe
that that is uh something that I feel uh we're all blessed with here in this in
this city is uh something that um many people from outside of Centerville look
in and say, "Wow, that is that's such a great place
to live." And I and I am tr truly grateful to the people that work here
for doing uh those things that will make these this situation less difficult
because yes, I don't want to raise taxes and I believe that tightening our belt
is actually something that I do in my home. I will tighten my belt. I think
that um at this point we uh could tighten our belt, but what would that do
next year in the year after? Incremental um
increases into for this I think are better than holding off and waiting for
the 15% increase. Uh
so ultimately we're faced with the difficult decision
to pass a a a steep tax increase. I too would be inclined to really just focus
on the the police officer and say, you know, hey, let's let's slow down this uh
a little bit. But as our city manager has stated, that's only
postponing what we are going to need to do, which is find other sources of
revenue or decrease or or the uh expenses. And we
we tried that. We we had six meetings on that. And I I feel that uh we did our
due diligence in that regard. So, with that being said, I I
will support the tax increase for the police officer. I've been very very
upset and I've I've stated as such about the fire assessment and how it has gone
up without much uh notice and then and that they also have the ability to raise
our property taxes because they are that a taxing entity. So for that I I'm
a little less supportive of that but I do see that that is still needing to be
funded. So, where do we fund it from? We either need to raise the taxes here or
somewhere else. So, what I'm going to say is that uh and the medical
insurance, that's just a a one of those line items that we can't change. So,
uh I guess what I would like to ask as we
uh just get some clarification is
if I could ask the chief, are we
feeling that because I I actually want to just dovetail onto what the mayor had
asked about with the um if are we going to be able to um get
this position filled this year and what's your confidence level in that
and uh and are we fully staffed at this particular moment in time?
» Okay. So, um yeah, I I think we'll get the position
filled this year. Um the question is whether these
positions are staffed by someone out covering a shift and being effective as
a police officer. That's a whole different question, right? Because you
lose an officer, then you go through the hiring process, you identify someone,
you send them to the police academy, they get out of the police academy, then
they go out on the road for three months where they're paired up with a training
officer where they're not they're not effective as a as an officer yet because
they're they're together. There's two of them together, but they're filling just
one position out on the road, one car. They're responding to all the calls
themselves. And so the the I I believe yes, I I believe we'll get the position
filled, but the question is whether they're going to be out on the road on
their own effectively replacing that person,
you know, replacing that position. And that's always been our heartache. And
you've talked about the struggles with finding certified officers.
um you know when when I went through the academy I self sponsored and a lot of us
paid our own way you know took it as a college class we came out and that's
just how it was before and now it's very you're very limited in who you can pick
up that way and most times you you sponsor people through the academy and
so you know we we lost an officer in June of 25
that officer is out on field training right now and he's slated to get off end
of October beginning of November on on his
And that's >> but we did pay their salary while they
were in the academy, right? Even though they're not in a shift. And I do want to
clarify for the record that our recruitment that's ongoing right now for
an officer >> is for the officer who resigned
» and not necessarily to fill this position. Just so you know again because
we've instructed chief that he can't hire recruit for this position until
tonight on whether or not you approve this position. So we're not forcing your
hand that we hey we're already in the process. The position he's recruiting
for is a position, existing position that was unfilled at this point.
» You did ask if we're fully staffed. We are not right. We we we had an officer
resign go to another department >> this past week.
» So, we're looking at seeing uh at least if this was to pass tonight, you will
need to hire two police officers to be what you would say fully staffed.
» Correct. But with that additional officer.
» Okay. Just for everybody's information, while
I've been on the council, there actually have been years that the medical
insurance went up nothing or almost nothing. I was shocked, but there have
been years that the medical insurance did not raise very much. I wished I had
the years and the amounts, but I don't. But
» it's a different time. I'm saying that there have been years that though we
didn't have to absorb that because you know it was
» Thank you. All right. Uh >> Mr. Mayor,
» yeah, >> I'm sorry. Can I make one brief comment?
I know I'm like a a disembodied voice coming from apparently the ceiling.
» Um yeah, there was just a reference made to the property tax increase for the
mosquito abatement district. and is a representative on that district. I just
wanted to comment briefly, the property tax increase was 25% and as you'll
recall when I brought this to the council, that sounds like a very
significant number, but what that equals was 66 cents per month on a $600,000
home. And the reason that we pushed that through was because we desperately
needed to construct a new pesticide storage facility. And my understanding
is that the mosquito abatement district has only raised property taxes twice in
the last two decades. So I just wanted to as um a representative on that board
just address that comment and that's all I have. Thank you.
» Thanks Councilwoman Haven. All right, everybody's had a chance to comment that
there's that. >> Can I just add one more thing? I just
just for the people in the room. I think it's really helpful to know that many of
these boards like the mosquito abatement district, the South Davis sewer
district, the wreck district, um that all of those have
representatives from each city, which is has been very helpful because we as a
council often know what the property tax increases are that are
coming. And we I we do try so carefully to try and balance that. like if we know
something big is coming from one, we try to limit at least I feel like that
weighs in. It's been helpful to have um that information from the various
council members that serve. So I I don't know if that helps at all, but I think
that has been a very helpful thing that we do have elected officials that are
serving on those boards that kind of see all of the impacts to the property tax
statement. One other thing I will add is since I've been on the council, we have
not had an increase in our compensation. We have had I've absolutely not taken
any more money than we were paid. I'm still I'm still compensated the same
this year as I was 10 years ago. >> But with the pie chart following up with
Councilwoman Haymon said, you're 60% that goes to the school district. We
don't have any representation there. >> That's true.
» Okay. We do on mosquito bait, we do on garbage, we do on sewer, but but your
biggest chunk of your papaya, we do not have any representation or say there.
So, all right. Uh so, uh with uh
trying to be fair, giving everybody their time. Uh so, uh I'm looking for
motions uh on resolution 2026-23 and 2026-24.
I'll make a motion that we adopt resolution number 2026-23
setting the real and personal property tax rate at 0.001314
for the general fund for Centerville City Utah. Do we need to do two separate
or shall I include them both >> and do it?
» Am I okay to do both? >> Yeah.
» Okay. and that we adopt resolution number 2026-24
adopting the fiscal year 2027 final budget.
» Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second to that motion?
» I'll sec I'll second that. >> We have a second that motion. Do we uh
last minute for further discussion?
Okay. If there's no further discussion, then I guess uh we we will vote on that
motion. Let's start uh uh with to my right. Councilwoman Hurst.
» I >> I
» I Councilwoman H.
» I. >> So that motion passes. Uh 4 to one.
All right. Uh seeing well yeah because we're truth and taxation we do have no
other items uh on the budget so or on on the agenda. So seeing that I would look
for a motion to adjurnn. So moved. >> All right.