[0:00] Thank you. We want to welcome everybody
to this uh special city council meeting
[0:04] being held here on August 25th, 2026, 6
pm at Centerville City Hall. This is why
[0:12] this is a special meeting is uh it's
what we call a truth and taxation
[0:17] meeting and law requires that all that
we can discuss in this meeting is just
[0:24] the truth and taxation issue.
uh we don't discuss anything else and it
[0:29] has to be on a [snorts] separate night
from our regular council meetings. Our
[0:34] regular council meetings are held the
first and third Tuesday. So this has to
[0:38] be separate from that meeting. So we
welcome those uh the public that are
[0:43] here by in person or
online. We welcome staff that's here and
[0:48] thank council that's here. Uh let's do a
roll call of council to make sure that
[0:55] uh we can take any action tonight.
Starting here on my far left.
[1:00] » Mikum present.
>> Bangader present.
[1:03] » Hurst present.
>> Plumber present.
[1:06] » Heman present.
>> Thank you. Uh we have four in person,
[1:12] one online. Uh so we have all five
council members.
[1:16] Uh so we can uh proceed with our
business. Like I said, this is uh this
[1:22] is a public hearing matter. So that
means that we have an opportunity to uh
[1:27] hear from the public as well too on
this. Uh this is a truth and taxation uh
[1:34] in re in
uh regards to a potential property tax
[1:39] increase and finalizing
the 2027 final budget. Now, our budgets
[1:46] in the city, we're on a uh fiscal year.
That means we run from uh July 1st to
[1:52] June 30th on our budget. So, this will
be we'll be setting the budget for
[1:57] actually
uh
[2:01] the the budget period that started just
under two months ago, but state law
[2:05] allows us to do that. And uh with this
truth in taxation, we obviously can't
[2:11] finalize the budget till we um uh do the
truth in taxation. So many of you that
[2:18] are here are probably have some
handouts. Um
[2:22] uh we're going to call um our finance
director up. I think he has a
[2:28] presentation that he wants to present
while he's coming up. uh he'll be
[2:33] discussing to you
uh why this truth in taxation uh um the
[2:42] the amount that we're looking to
potentially collect uh if if if property
[2:47] taxes change uh the fiscal year 2027
budget certified tax rates and all of
[2:54] that that fun stuff. Just the kind of
stuff that you like to dream about when
[2:58] you go to bed at night. So, uh, if Nate,
if you would, uh, give us a little
[3:03] overview and I'm sure that the council
members will have things to add as well
[3:07] too before we go to the public hearing
parts. So, thank you.
[3:11] » Yeah. Thank you, mayor. Good evening.
Um, as you mentioned, uh, tonight we
[3:16] have before you two resolutions, one to
set the, uh, final tax rate for the city
[3:22] and one to adopt our fiscal year 27
budget. Um, state code requires that
[3:28] both of these be set uh prior to
September 1st.
[3:33] Okay. So, back in uh June, we received
our uh the certified tax rate from the
[3:40] county auditor. Uh along with that, the
certified property tax revenue. Uh so,
[3:46] the certified rate uh for 2026 was
0.1137
[3:51] and that would give us about 2.3 million
in revenue. And then we're proposing to
[3:55] increase that uh by about 15%. So the
new rate would be 0001314
[4:01] and would provide about 2.7 million
worth of property tax revenue, an
[4:06] additional increase of the $369,13.
Um and we will uh
[4:14] get into the reasons why. Um but first I
wanted to start with the the property
[4:18] tax improperty tax impact statement. Um,
this was adopted by uh council back in I
[4:26] believe May and then we revised one
either later in May or start of June. I
[4:30] can't remember which. Um, so the the
most recently adopted uh property tax
[4:36] impact statement is available online as
well as a printed copy on this table by
[4:40] the door uh for anybody that would like
one. Uh and on that uh table is also the
[4:47] county combined ad and the city ad uh
for our for our hearing tonight. Um so
[4:53] again, we'll these are the items that
make up uh the uh reasoning for the tax
[5:00] increase. Uh if you remember our
original discussions, uh we thought we
[5:05] would do a tax increase for the new
officer, the fire assessment increase,
[5:09] and then we talked about doing a general
3% inflationary increase. Um since the
[5:15] public is in prior hearings asked us to
increase incrementally and off for years
[5:21] and doing a big increase. Um and then
the state law changed this year that we
[5:25] need to specify specific reasons. Um,
and so this is the reason that was voted
[5:30] on by council. Uh, so this is what is on
the property tax impact schedule. And
[5:35] we'll get into this a little bit more,
but first I want to talk about, uh, how
[5:39] property taxes work in Utah. Um, so the
first thing, uh, this pie chart
[5:44] represents your total property tax bill.
Uh, so all the different, uh, pieces are
[5:52] the different taxing entities that make
up your property tax bill. Uh it's
[5:56] important to note that when we talk
about the increase of the 15% tonight,
[6:01] we are only talking about the
Centerville City portion. So we're not
[6:05] talking about your entire say $3,000
bill. We're talking about the $350
[6:10] portion of that that is uh Centerville's
tax rate.
[6:17] All right. So in Utah, property taxes
are revenue based. Uh this means that
[6:23] they're based on the actual amount of
dollars that we collected the prior
[6:26] year. So state law says that the city
can only receive the same dollar amount
[6:31] in property taxes as it received the
prior year unless uh one of two things
[6:36] happen. The first is that we get new
growth, new development within the city.
[6:40] Uh and the second way to get new more
property tax revenue is to go through
[6:44] the truth and taxation process and
increase the rate. And that's what we're
[6:48] doing tonight. uh for 2026 we got our
new growth figures from the county and
[6:53] that was that $37,000.
Um and the reason we can get new growth
[6:57] without going through the hearing is
because when you think about it as the
[7:01] city develops that means that our
service needs have increased. We have
[7:05] more roads to maintain, more roads to
plow, more police services necessary
[7:09] etc. Um so that's why we get that new
growth figure.
[7:15] Okay. So to calculate your property tax
bill, uh you simply take the taxable
[7:20] value of your property and multiply it
by the tax rate and this will give you
[7:24] the amount of property taxes that you
owe. The tax rate is the same for all
[7:29] properties throughout the city, but the
taxable value can fluctuate.
[7:34] Uh and that depends on whether you're a
residential property or a commercial
[7:39] property.
Okay. So each year the county performs
[7:44] an assessment and assigns a value to
your property. This is called the market
[7:48] value. So in Centerville, the average
home's market value is $610,000 this
[7:54] year. Uh the taxable value is the value
at which your property is taxed. As I
[7:59] just mentioned, primary residents are
given a 45% discounts. Other properties
[8:05] uh their taxable value and their market
value are the same.
[8:09] Uh then we have the certified tax rate.
So this is the rate at which your
[8:14] property is taxed as calculated by the
county. Um and I like this uh image of
[8:21] the seessaw and the teeter totter. Um
because as the city's property tax
[8:27] values increase, your tax rate will
decrease, but the the amount of property
[8:32] tax revenue that the city gets remains
the same. Um and the opposite would be
[8:37] true if property values decrease then
our tax rate would naturally increase
[8:41] but the city would receive the same
amount with the exception of new growth
[8:45] or if we go through this process of
truth and taxation. Uh so that's an
[8:49] important part to remember as we look at
this.
[8:53] Uh so this is this chart shows the
history of centerville's uh tax rate. Um
[8:59] and you can see that that in most cases
well in all cases as property values
[9:04] have increased the tax rate decreased uh
with the exceptions of when we went
[9:08] through truth and taxation and those are
those years that are uh called out
[9:13] there. Um so you can see at the end
where our tax rate would be without this
[9:18] tax increase and then that red line on
the right hand side shows uh what it
[9:23] would look like if uh adopted tonight.
[9:28] Okay, here is a uh comparison of other
uh property tax rates. Again, these are
[9:34] the certified tax rates. Um any of the
cities that have uh the star next to
[9:40] them, those are cities that are going
through the truth and taxation process,
[9:45] I have not kept up with them. Um so I
don't know how they ended up, how they
[9:50] voted. Um
but this gives you a comparison.
[9:56] Uh I always give the caveat when we look
at this that every city's financial
[10:01] needs are different and every city's
revenue base is different than ours. Um
[10:08] some cities like Fruit Heights have
almost no sales tax generators. Um,
[10:15] other cities have a power
uh
[10:19] a power fund that can help
subsidize the general fund or other
[10:25] sources of revenue. So, each city is
comprised differently. Um, but I do
[10:30] think this gives us a, you know, a
general idea of how we fall in line with
[10:34] other cities in the in the county.
[10:39] Okay. Okay, so now I want to get into
some uh commonly asked questions about
[10:43] property tax. Um so the first one, are
property taxes affected by inflation? Um
[10:50] or more specifically, is your property
tax bill affected by inflation? And the
[10:54] answer is no. Again, to adjust the
property taxes, we have to go through
[10:58] this uh truth and taxation. Um, and this
is part of the struggle of this when
[11:05] you're trying to fund a city is that
while we don't get more property tax
[11:10] revenue as
uh inflation occurs and costs rise, we
[11:15] still have our costs to provide the
service still continues to rise. So
[11:21] again, just like everybody else, we get
a need uh of increased cost to us to
[11:27] provide the same level of service. Um
but we don't automatically get extra
[11:32] revenue based on inflation.
[11:37] Okay. Um so frequently we get the
question of um if the city hasn't raised
[11:43] property taxes in the last couple years,
how come my property tax bill has gone
[11:49] up? Uh and there can be two possible
reasons for this. Uh the first is that
[11:54] another entity that we saw in that pie
chart has increased taxes. Um, and if
[11:58] they've gone through the truth and
taxation process and raised their rate,
[12:01] then your overall bill will increase.
Um, and then the other possible scenario
[12:06] is that your property has increased in
value at a quicker rate than other
[12:10] properties in the city. So remember, as
the property values as a whole for the
[12:16] city increase, the tax rate decreases
for the city. However, as each
[12:22] as your property may uh appreciate or
depreciate differently than your
[12:27] neighbors, um that could cause you and
your neighbors uh tax bill to adjust
[12:33] slightly. And I know that can be really
confusing. Um so we've tried to
[12:38] illustrate it here. Uh so
in this example, you'll see um a city
[12:45] with a total taxable value of 1.2
million. Uh, and so we get that by
[12:50] adding up all of the values of each of
the houses. And that's what you can see
[12:53] underneath each of the houses. That's
their individual value. Uh, so the city
[12:57] in this scenario collects $1,500 in
taxes. And so to get the tax rate, you
[13:02] just take the $1,500 that the city
receives, divide it by the total taxable
[13:06] value, the 1.2 million, and then that
gives you your tax rate with the 000125.
[13:12] And then there in blue, uh, is the
amount of property taxes that each of
[13:16] these homes would pay.
So that's year one. Then we go to year
[13:21] two and the county performs another
assessment and assigns the new uh value
[13:27] to your home. So we have the same city,
but you'll notice that the total taxable
[13:32] value went from the 1.2 million up to
the 1.65 million, but the city still
[13:37] continues to collect that same $1,500,
which means our tax rate decreases to
[13:42] the 0.0091.
So you can see in the blue the new
[13:48] property tax bill of each home and then
in red we'll show the difference from
[13:54] year one to year two. So you'll see that
first house even though the city didn't
[13:58] increase taxes because their home
appreciated at a different rate than the
[14:01] city. Theirs actually went up $40 on
their individual bill but house number
[14:06] three and four had a decrease of $28 and
the 2250. Uh so I know that can be
[14:12] really confusing. If you have questions,
I'm happy to break it down further. Um,
[14:17] but those are just some reasons why your
tax bill may fluctuate year-toear even
[14:20] when the city doesn't go through the
truth and taxation process.
[14:26] Okay, so now looking at our um situation
tonight, um how will it affect the
[14:34] average resident? So the average
resident has a market value of their
[14:38] home of 610,000
and again remember a residential
[14:41] property gets a 45% discount. So their
taxable value is at $335,500.
[14:49] Um so using the certified tax rate that
the county gave us, uh the average
[14:54] residential home would pay $381 in
Centerville City property taxes. Um as
[14:59] we've talked about tonight, we have a
proposed increase of the 15.61% 61%
[15:04] which would mean if adopted the average
home would pay $440.85
[15:09] which is an increase about $59 a year or
less than $5 a month.
[15:14] Um for businesses they pay or non
primary residential uh properties uh
[15:20] they do not get the discount. Uh the
county has told us that the average
[15:24] commercial value in Centerville is the
1,775,000.
[15:30] Um, so without this tax or, you know,
using the certified tax rate, they would
[15:35] pay uh $2,18
and then with the proposed increase,
[15:41] they would then pay two $2,332
uh which is an increase of about $314 a
[15:48] year or about $26 a month for the
average commercial property.
[15:54] Okay. So, looking at our uh current
financial situation,
[15:59] uh looking at our governmental funds, uh
we are heavily using our fund balance,
[16:05] um which you will frequently hear
referred to as our rainy day fund. Um so
[16:13] as we compiled the budget um again we've
been working on this since January
[16:18] um
internally as staff and then we first
[16:22] presented it in our budget workshop uh
to the city council uh at the end of
[16:28] March in our budget retreat. Um and
we've been refining it ever since then.
[16:34] Uh so this is a big project. Um, but at
the end of the day, we still had a
[16:38] budget shortfall of about $1.5 million.
Um, and so in our capital projects fund,
[16:44] you'll see that we're using about $1.1
million
[16:48] uh to complete our projects and to
balance this budget. Um, now while every
[16:53] year we do use some uh fund balance from
our capital projects fund, uh that's to
[16:59] be expected almost every year. Um but
using it to this degree is certainly not
[17:04] sustainable uh long term.
So that's the concern that we have.
[17:12] Um now we talk about service levels a
lot. Um
[17:19] so as I was preparing this and thinking
how do we you know explain service
[17:23] levels, I typed it into Google and the
Google AI spit out this definition that
[17:29] uh I liked. Uh so it says service levels
in local government define the quality,
[17:33] scope and performance of public
infrastructure and programs delivered to
[17:37] communities. They balance community
expectations with available budgets,
[17:41] staff capacity, and technical standards.
So this balancing part is the
[17:47] challenging part. That's why we're here
tonight. Uh that's why we've been
[17:50] working on this since January is trying
to balance,
[17:55] you know, what is the quality of life
that our residents expect and how do we
[18:00] provide that standard of living with our
current resources. And it's not an easy
[18:04] answer because everybody has a different
opinion of how to get there. And that's
[18:09] um why we as staff and council spend so
much time uh working on this budget uh
[18:15] to try to find that appropriate balance.
Um,
[18:20] so as I was thinking about the, you
know, the average residential household
[18:23] will pay if adopted $440 this year in
Centerville city property taxes.
[18:29] Um, so I thought about what benefits do
our residents get for paying that $440.
[18:36] Um, again, this is some of my opinion
here, but uh, for that $440, you get
[18:45] public safety responding to your call in
a matter of minutes. And actually, if
[18:49] this, uh, tax increase is adopted, we'll
be able to hire an additional officer.
[18:54] So, it actually increases that level of
service. Uh, you get roads that are
[18:59] well-maintained and very drivable in any
type of vehicle. You get very
[19:04] well-maintained sidewalks. Uh no matter
where you live in the city, you can get
[19:08] a park within walking distance of your
home. Uh or if you want to go to a
[19:12] different park, you can again drive
there on those well-maintained roads
[19:16] within a 10-minute drive. Uh you get use
of a amenities like pickle ball courts,
[19:22] tennis courts, basketball courts,
playground equipments, walking and bike
[19:26] biking paths, and even restrooms at most
of those facilities. Uh you get events
[19:32] like we just had at the 4th of July. You
get movies in the park, uh the Christmas
[19:37] light ceremony, uh the fall festival,
the other events that the Whitaker
[19:41] Museum puts on. And then with
recreating, you get the hiking and
[19:45] biking and off-road trails, and the list
goes on. And you get all of this for
[19:49] $440
uh in property tax. Um,
[19:56] [snorts] now looking at this again, uh,
some of these I would argue are
[20:01] essential services like public safety
and roads. Some of these certainly
[20:06] aren't essential, um, like our events or
even parks are certainly not essential
[20:11] to government. However, I believe they
do provide a significant benefit to the
[20:16] community. Um, I know I went to the
Fourth of July celebration and enjoyed
[20:21] the fireworks and I went to the parade
and [clears throat] saw the, you know,
[20:25] 10 20,000 people enjoying that.
Uh, now is that an essential cost us
[20:31] 70,000? Is that essential? No,
absolutely not. But do I think it
[20:35] provided an excellent community benefit?
Absolutely. So, as we look at this
[20:40] budget, this again going back to this
service level, this is what we're trying
[20:44] to balance is
the quality of life that our residents
[20:49] want. Um, so as we think about trying to
balance this budget, what are you asking
[20:55] rhetorically, what are you willing to
give up? Um,
[20:59] we're trying to do everything we can
with uh [clears throat] the resources
[21:03] that we have and I think we have a
really good team here at Centerville
[21:08] between [clears throat] staff and
elected officials that were able to come
[21:10] to this balance. Um, so anyway, there's
my there's my soap box for the night.
[21:16] Um, but I do think we get a pretty good
value for uh the amount of taxes that we
[21:22] pay.
Okay, so looking at this uh additional
[21:27] property tax revenue um again it's about
369,000.
[21:32] How will this be used? Uh these are the
items that we listed in our property tax
[21:36] impact statement. Uh so the first is the
medical insurance increases for our
[21:41] employees. This continues to rise every
year. Um,
[21:47] so this was uh about $83,41
worth uh was part of our reason for
[21:52] increasing this uh for this property tax
increase. The second item is the new
[21:59] police officer position. Uh, and this
$250,000 for that would include
[22:05] uh the wages for a new officer and all
the benefits uh plus the patrol vehicle
[22:10] and all the associated costs like
equipment and fuel, maintenance,
[22:14] training, all of that. Uh, and this
would help uh increase that service
[22:20] level for the police department and
their overall response capacity. And
[22:24] then the final part is the assessment
that we get from South Davis Fire. Um we
[22:32] pay a total of what was it 1.2
millionish to the fire district. Uh they
[22:38] have increased our rate uh that we have
to pay to them by that $35,72
[22:44] this year. Uh so that is the last part
that makes up our uh reasoning for the
[22:49] increase.
[22:52] Okay. Okay. And then again, this uh
public hearing tonight and the
[22:56] resolution before you is also for the
final budget. Um back in uh June, we had
[23:03] to adopt the interim budget which was
part of the new state laws this year. Um
[23:08] so again, we've talked about our budget
in length at various meetings. Uh, so I
[23:13] won't go into all the details of the
budget here, but just kind of hit the
[23:16] highlights that we've projected our
sales tax revenue to increase by about
[23:20] 2% going from 5.5 million to 5.6
million. Um, again, this budget does
[23:26] include the property tax increase of
15.61%.
[23:30] Uh, in our sanitation fund, we had the
fee increase, $1 per garbage can that
[23:36] was adopted back in June. Um and then
this also includes using fund balance in
[23:42] our capital projects fund our
transportation fund, sanitation fund and
[23:46] drainage fund uh to complete some of
those capital projects. And then uh
[23:51] finally we have the inner fund loan from
our capital projects fund to our water
[23:56] fund uh in in the amount of uh up to 2.4
million. Um, since the interim budget
[24:06] was adopted back in June, uh, we haven't
really had any changes. The only changes
[24:10] that you'll see on the final budget are
related to the property tax. So, when
[24:14] the interim budget was adopted, we
hadn't received the certified tax rate
[24:19] from the county. Um, so now that we have
the certified tax rate, uh, we've
[24:24] updated that line to include our new
growth. And then the other thing that
[24:30] changed with property tax is that for
the interim budget, the new state code
[24:34] required that we put the additional tax
revenue in a restricted account. Um, for
[24:41] the final budget, since we'll have an
adopted uh tax rate, I've combined that
[24:46] into just a single property tax revenue
line. So, you won't see that additional
[24:50] restricted account anymore. Um
and then because of that new growth, the
[24:56] amount that we transferred to our
capital projects fund has increased uh
[25:00] by that same $37,000
equal to our new growth.
[25:07] Okay. So again, our staff's
recommendation uh is to adopt uh the
[25:12] resolution setting the real personal
property tax rate at 0001314 for the
[25:18] general fund and adopt the other
resolution adopting the final budget. Um
[25:24] and just a quick note to remind you
about our public hearing. We've had a
[25:28] couple changes in state legislature this
year um that says we must allow
[25:33] everybody that wants to comment a
reasonable time for comment. Um so I
[25:37] think our our typical 3 minutes uh
satisfies that. And then we must allow
[25:43] uh virtual comments. Um so I know
Jennifer is watching the Zoom. Um so if
[25:48] anybody wants to comment online, they're
able to. I think we're just going to ask
[25:51] them to use the raise your hand
function. Uh so we're not interrupting
[25:54] each other. And then um we also had to
allow written comments to be submitted
[26:01] up until the end of the hearing and
that's all been posted on our website
[26:05] with instructions on how to do that. Um
so anyway, that's all I have prepared
[26:10] for you tonight, mayor. Are there any
questions I can answer? So I want to
[26:14] point out a couple things. First off,
about your third or fourth chart, uh the
[26:18] certified tax rate, um
uh there it is right there. that for the
[26:25] most part just for the people that are
here for their knowledge to make it
[26:29] clear that uh you see those uh years
that it's declining
[26:35] that's because uh probably property
values have gone up right
[26:41] » correct
>> because uh in Utah and there's a few
[26:44] other states like this I don't know how
many your uh your property taxes will
[26:50] stay the same other than what Nate
showed those rare situations conditions
[26:54] s um even if your property goes up or
your property goes down that rate will
[26:59] adjust. So the only way that your tax
can be changed um by us or any of that
[27:05] pie chart that uh he he showed the
county, the school district, the sewer,
[27:11] whatever is through a truth in taxation
like this where you you increase the
[27:18] rate. So um um as your property goes up,
that rate's going down. So, your taxes
[27:23] are staying the same unless you have the
certified tax rate increase. The other
[27:28] thing I wanted to point out, and Nate
didn't cover this because it's not
[27:32] really part of the the it is part of the
meeting, but not part of his
[27:35] presentation. Uh I just want to point
out for those of you that haven't looked
[27:39] at the budget, uh our budget for our
city is not completely funded by
[27:46] property taxes. We have a just under a
$14 million budget. Uh and of that 2.7
[27:55] million is property taxes. Obviously 5.6
billion is uh sales taxes. That's the
[28:02] biggest one. Then you have you have
building license fees. You have uh uh
[28:09] franchise tax, that sort of thing. Um,
and uh, I also want to point out that a
[28:15] lot of the what you see going on and
around the city right now, we do our
[28:20] best to make sure we get grants wherever
possible. That the construction on Main
[28:25] Street, the construction on 400 East, we
had pipes that were council approved
[28:29] early in the year to do those projects
and uh, um, a lot quite a bit of that
[28:36] money comes from uh, grants we apply to
as well too. But obviously some comes
[28:42] from this and also improvements you see
like pickle ball courts that went in uh
[28:49] mo quite a bit of that was done through
grants and then through the wrap tax
[28:54] which the vote v voters approved years
ago and they re uh they approved again
[28:59] last year. So that stands for recreation
and parks. So, uh there's money that
[29:04] that goes to that for um uh that that
type of purpose. So, I just wanted to to
[29:11] bring that out um to you. Um one thing
we didn't discuss is uh well, no, we did
[29:19] discuss it, but did you go over
of how much we're proposing
[29:25] uh is proposed on the truth and
taxation? Did you discuss the new
[29:29] property tax impact schedule that the
legislature requires us to do? I don't
[29:34] know if that that's new for all of us.
Uh that was a an exercise that we had to
[29:39] all go through new. Now there it is
right there. So we had the legislature
[29:45] played around with all sorts of bills
with property tax. Uh, one thing they
[29:49] settled on was in this truth in taxation
that we had to do these property tax
[29:54] impact schedules. Even though there's
could be increases in not could be,
[30:00] there is uh increases in uh other areas
as well too. We're required to pinpoint
[30:06] areas of what the why the proposed
property tax increase and where that
[30:13] would go to. You could look at our
budget uh uh and I'm I'm not necessarily
[30:19] a big fan of this because uh of of of
what legislature passed, but they were
[30:24] doing their best because you could you
could put a number of items here that
[30:27] make up that 370,000.
But uh our property tax impact schedule,
[30:34] that's what it shows that
uh this increase would go to 250,000 for
[30:40] police and a new officer. That's that's
just not the officer. That's that's a
[30:45] vehicle that goes along with it,
equipment, all that sort of thing. Uh
[30:49] $35,72
to the fire assessment [snorts]
[30:52] increase. And then uh medical insurance
coverage uh for all the employees that
[30:58] that's gone up and those total the
almost 370,000. So that's what we have
[31:04] pinpointed
uh that the uses for. So um of where
[31:10] these these funds would go to. So,
um, other questions for Nate or
[31:15] clarification
that, uh, council wants to make or
[31:20] staff wants to make.
[31:27] Nothing.
Okay. Um
[31:33] I do uh so I guess at this point in time
if there there's no further questions
[31:40] uh I guess we could go to the public
hearing part and hear uh from the public
[31:46] that's it's your your opportunity to
hear from you. Um and then uh we will u
[31:55] uh re we'll take notes and we'll try to
respond to your comments as as well as
[32:01] we can uh and then we'll come back to
have uh further discussion after that as
[32:06] well too. So like I said this is a
public hearing matter truth and taxation
[32:10] property tax increase and fiscal year
2027 final budget. So uh that public
[32:18] hearing is now open. All we ask is that
you you state your name and where you're
[32:24] from for the record of the
>> And also, mayor, really quick, for those
[32:29] on Zoom, if you'd like to comment, use
the raise your hand feature on Zoom. So,
[32:34] and then we'll call on you when we're
ready. So, those that are on Zoom, I
[32:38] don't know if you heard our recorder,
Jennifer, but raise you do use the raise
[32:42] your hand feature on Zoom, and I will
have her look at uh uh those to to get
[32:50] you as well, too. But, we're going to
open it up first to those members of the
[32:54] public that are here. So, that public
hearing is now open.
[33:02] » I'll be the guinea pig.
[33:06] Good evening. My name is Doug Hansy. My
wife and Judy and I live at one
[33:10] residents of Centerville for the last 51
years. We live at 112 East Jennings
[33:15] Lane. I'm 75 years old. I still work
full-time. I own a technology business
[33:20] that works with very large corporations
and medium-sized businesses. And I have
[33:24] customers in four major business
segments. And I work with people from
[33:28] the sea level down to line workers. My
reason to being here is that is a a
[33:33] massive frustration with property tax
increases here and in the county and
[33:38] it's the as a way of using to resolve
budget uh needs and manage increasing
[33:46] costs. My frustration should be echo
with each of you who purchased a home
[33:51] and as inflation drove up the value four
to five times what you paid for that
[33:56] home. uh it becomes a little
aggravating. California used Prop 13 to
[34:02] protect people with from drastic value
increases that froze property tax
[34:07] realistically to to the purchase price,
not the appraisal price. I'm not a fan
[34:13] of California government and consider
one of the very few redeeming successes
[34:18] of that state. Judy and I live in a home
with a two-car garage we built in 1988,
[34:24] which today would be absolutely
impossible for us to afford to purchase.
[34:29] Here is my harsh reality. I'm trying to
retire uh and your property tax increase
[34:35] added to the Davis County uh increase
are more money there. That is more money
[34:41] than I will make in retirement per
month. Think about that for a moment.
[34:47] the property tax is now going to be
higher than my income per month. Uh your
[34:53] t your truth and tax packet is very re
revealing on page 94. Centerville has
[34:59] had four tax increases since in the in
the years 2017 through 2026. Four tax
[35:07] increases for property tax. people at
the at this rate center for leadership
[35:13] is likely to continue increasing taxes
every two and a half years. I said I
[35:17] work with ma major medium to large
companies in Utah and surrounding states
[35:22] for for-profit businesses cannot spend
money like a municipality does. They
[35:28] have to make a profit which means
working with equipment they have to
[35:32] produce to use to make their products.
For example, I have three customers. One
[35:38] customer alone has 600 600
barcode printers to which they produce.
[35:45] It's in an automotive b business. Uh
they these printers are aged from 6 to
[35:50] 18 years but yet they run those printers
continue to use those even though
[35:55] they've been end of life and end of
service life because they still uh
[35:59] process the product properly. They don't
run out and replace it just because a
[36:04] new one is on the horizon. You can't
make a profit when you do things like
[36:08] that. You're all aware of the public
works garage door openers issue. I'm I
[36:14] have uh I had asked um Councilman
Bangader and I I pushed him into a
[36:20] corner and said, "Tell me about what's
going on." I was dis I was dismayed when
[36:24] I understood that the public works
garage door opener that you had one that
[36:28] failed and because of a supply chain
problem, you couldn't get the door open.
[36:32] So, uh, all of a sudden we decide we
have to replace 10 door openers. 10 door
[36:38] openers we have to replace. In business,
we buy a spare unit. We put it on the
[36:42] shelf. When it breaks, we fix it and
then we order a spare replacement.
[36:46] That's how we make a profit in business.
Uh, in if we were to solve problems any
[36:53] other differently, we wouldn't make
money. It's the mentality it takes to be
[36:57] profitable, not running to replace
something just because it's aging. I
[37:01] drive a 2017 Toyota Camry with 262,000
miles on it. I run to Sacramento for
[37:08] business. I don't even think about
roadworthiness. I get in the car and I
[37:12] go. Why is it necessary in in our in our
community that we need to replace
[37:18] vehicles so frequently every 3 years or
so? Consider the mileage. Consider the
[37:23] replacement cost. Consider I'm talking
about budget items, not just the
[37:28] property tax. people with respect. I
encourage that youth to think about
[37:32] running a municipality more should be
more like running a business. Employee
[37:36] employees should be paid a cola increase
like social security does. Even an
[37:42] increase near inflation is considered
reasonable. But high wage employees in
[37:47] the city should never ever receive wage
in price wage percentage increases
[37:53] higher than the lowest employee does.
Finally, property tax is not a solution
[37:59] to your budget problems. And why um
Centerville hosts major big box stores
[38:06] which bring a lot of out of town. In
fact, when I go into the into a big box
[38:10] here, I don't see anybody from our
community and I get around a little bit.
[38:14] And uh I go I look at that the source of
revenue coming in there. People do not
[38:19] stop shopping because the sales tax goes
up a little bit. I'd like you to go back
[38:24] and consider the budget. I'm not asking
about that items that were shown up here
[38:29] for the property tax increase because I
I I think that you need to go back and
[38:34] look at wants versus barebone needs in
your budget, your overall budget. Uh
[38:40] again, with the exception of the public
safety need like in the business world,
[38:45] every employee of the city should
consider how I how I improve my work
[38:48] ethic with tools that I have. Most
companies that I work with, major
[38:52] companies have incentives for their
employees where they if they come up
[38:55] with a an inre increase in their
performance, they get rewarded for it.
[39:00] Uh that's how we succeed in business.
Please let's recognize the importance of
[39:06] this property tax thing. There are a lot
of families in this community who bought
[39:10] a house in the 40s, the 50s, and the
60s, who paid for that house, who worked
[39:15] their heart out, and who never had a
decent income their entire life. And now
[39:19] we're rent now we are un ashamedly in
the in the in Davis County the state of
[39:25] Utah and in the city charging them a
property tax rate on something that is
[39:29] out so outside of the their income
capability
[39:35] to support the property taxes.
Ladies and gentlemen, I respectfully ask
[39:39] you to do not approve this property tax
increase. I think you need to go back to
[39:43] your budget and figure out how you find
a way to re to cover those things that
[39:48] you want to do. Lastly, I encourage you
that you listen to people in the town.
[39:53] Sincerely listen to the people in the
town and not just the wellto-do
[39:58] constituents or something that you think
that you like or that you would want to
[40:02] listen to those people. If they have
different points of view, you might
[40:06] learn something from them. Thank you for
for your for your consideration and I
[40:10] respectfully sign off. Thank you.
[applause]
[40:20] » Is there others that would like to
comment?
[40:28] My name is Craig Preston. I live in
Centerville. I can't pass up the
[40:31] opportunity to come before you. I see
come around frequently. I just want to
[40:36] give you perspective
of where I'm coming from and my people
[40:41] of my similar situation. Um,
I've lived here in Centerville this time
[40:48] for the past five years. And I don't
know what you call it, but my property
[40:52] taxes have gone up. I'm almost 33% in
those five years. And this happens in a
[40:58] couple of ways. One is, yeah, you talk
about this these things. You got the
[41:03] mosquito district this year going up
15%. You got South DA sewer going up.
[41:07] You got the fire district going up 16%.
Centerville city is asking for 15% more.
[41:13] But then you also have new entities
that are now taxing entities. It's not
[41:21] the city, but it's the overall impact on
me and and the city people and the the
[41:27] people who own property. That's what's
make my property taxes, I'm sure, go up.
[41:31] I haven't gone back and looked at it,
but it has gone up 33%. I lived at the
[41:35] same house. U yeah, the county raises
the level and I have questions about
[41:40] that and we have little discussions
every once in a while with them. We need
[41:44] to understand that um I'm on a fixed
income with social security. I get
[41:49] probably an average of two to 5% a year
and out of that Medicare goes up about
[41:55] 3%. So the net impact on me is about a
2% increase on my income. Um
[42:03] uh so I I don't understand this no
inflation effect somewhere is is built
[42:08] in there and you do have an opportunity
uh as was mentioned here in looking at
[42:13] the city budget and what happens uh
being involved in the general plans. Uh
[42:19] I don't know how much that cost to pro
produce and I don't know how much it's
[42:24] going to cost to implement but you as a
city council have control over that
[42:29] expenditure. And all I can do is ask you
to be very conscientious and not look at
[42:35] it as just 15%.
I mean 40 bucks a year or whatever it is
[42:39] it's supposed to be, but that's not that
my my portion on my house is going to be
[42:43] up on that. Although $60 $61, but um my
portion is going to be bigger than that.
[42:50] It's not just a $61 a year here. But
it's everybody's $61. And I'm I'm sorry
[42:57] that I missed I saw Robin after the
South Davis or the Yeah. South Davis
[43:03] Fire Assessment. I was going to show up
at that and found out that I had the
[43:06] time wrong and nobody came. I don't know
how much of an increase that is, but it
[43:11] bothers me significantly that South
Davis was fire is asking over a 16%
[43:16] increase themselves and then coming to
you the cities and asking for a
[43:21] significant increase. That is
outlandish. And that's one of those
[43:24] things that I don't know. I can't
remember when it was, but that's another
[43:27] one that was separated out. We made a
new taxing entity and who here we go.
[43:34] Um, you know, this this fire district
thing, that's not a big meeting. And
[43:40] obviously when I found out that I was
nobody came and I was just driving in
[43:44] the parking lot as everybody else was
driving out, I was very disappointed
[43:48] that I'd missed that. So, I just wanted
you to know that this is what it is. You
[43:52] do have an impact and it's everybody's
15% impact that makes my taxes go up 33%
[43:59] in 5 years on the same house. Everybody
adds up. You just put it all together.
[44:05] That's why please be conscientious. Be
aware of what we're doing. Be reasonable
[44:09] in what you're doing when you implement
this general plan u and how you spend
[44:14] the money. uh it's your money but it's
out of my pocket and uh I would like to
[44:21] have some input on it and thank you.
>> Thanks. [applause]
[44:30] » Uh others that are in person.
[44:41] » Hi, I'm Diane Witten. I live on Center
Street in Centerville
[44:46] and
I just want to reiterate how important
[44:49] it is to stick with a budget because my
salary doesn't increase if I need
[44:55] something. All the prices have increased
in everything. Groceries are outlandish.
[45:00] Gas is outlandish. I'm barely making it
by. And I know I'm not the only one. And
[45:07] I can't go to my boss and say, "Hey, I
need an increase in my raise. I I don't
[45:13] get it. I I've already plateaued in my
work. I'm not going to get an increase
[45:18] at all. And so if there's an increase in
my grocery budget, I have to cut down on
[45:25] something else. I can't just keep going
how I am. And so I'm asking that you
[45:32] really seriously take a look at the
budget and say, is this a necessary
[45:37] expenditure
or is this a want? because there is a
[45:42] huge difference in that and I know
there's some underlying padding going
[45:47] on. I took over doing my dad's bills and
the Centerville city bill for his
[45:52] household of one person and my city
household bill for three people with a
[45:58] son who uses the hot water heater for
every shower were exactly the same to
[46:03] the penny every single month.
So there there is some padding going on
[46:09] underneath.
And you know, if you're going to do
[46:14] that, it tells me that there's a little
bit of discrepancy in what can we get
[46:21] away with.
I would like to see more honesty. I
[46:25] would like to see some serious budgeting
because that's what I have to do.
[46:32] That's literally what I have to do.
[46:36] I I don't want to see any more
increases.
[46:41] I'm saving every month trying to afford
taxes.
[46:46] My house is paid for. I'm saving every
month to pay for insurance on the house,
[46:50] too.
And then if I have a medical problem
[46:55] come up, that comes right out of my
savings account for the taxes. And I'm
[46:59] scrambling to save enough for taxes.
again.
[47:03] It shouldn't have to be this hard to
live in such a good community.
[47:09] It really shouldn't.
We've got good people here and I'd like
[47:14] to keep it that way, but it it's it's
outpricing it's outpricing people. And
[47:21] instead of saying how much lower are we
than other cities in taxes, I'd rather
[47:26] have us look at what can we do to be
even lower and make it more affordable
[47:30] for our citizens to live here.
I'm happy to do away with some
[47:36] amenities.
I I volunteer to pick up trash on
[47:41] trails. I've done that before.
I'm happy if our community reaches out
[47:46] to, you know, does a community clean up
instead of asking for the parks and, you
[47:53] know, other public servants to clean up.
I think we can we can step up and
[47:59] volunteer if that helps cut money in a
place that can be cut and then that
[48:05] money can be pushed over to where you
really need it. Anything to save some
[48:09] money so we don't have to raise taxes
would be really appreciated. Thank you.
[48:14] » Thanks. [applause]
[48:20] » Anybody else that's uh present?
[48:25] Do
>> we have any raised hands online?
[48:28] » No raised hands. We have two folks
online. One online now, but haven't seen
[48:34] a raised hand.
>> So, no comments uh from online.
[48:40] Okay. Seeing uh
nobody else uh from the audience or
[48:46] online that uh wants to comment, I will
close the public hearing and let's see
[48:53] if we can't uh respond to some of your
questions. Um
[49:00] uh first off, I'm going to call uh
something that Diane said in regards to
[49:08] tax rates on water fees. Can we help out
there? Help her explain help her
[49:14] understand those how those water fees
work.
[49:18] » Nate's got you.
>> This isn't part of property tax, by the
[49:22] way. Water fees are separate from
property tax, but he can give you a feel
[49:27] of how how the water fees work.
>> Yeah. So, uh for water, uh everybody's
[49:33] meter gets read once a month. uh and
that determines how many thousands of
[49:37] gallons uh of water has gone through
that meter. Um so every
[49:43] uh house will get there's two parts to
your water bill. There's a base rate uh
[49:48] and that'll vary based well so it's the
same for every of the similar size of
[49:52] the meter. So all 3/4 in meters will pay
roughly $35 in a base fee. And then your
[50:00] usage is the second component. Um, so
depending on how much you use, there's a
[50:05] multiplier, uh, I think the first tier,
so from zero to 5,000 gallons, I think
[50:11] it's somewhere around $160 per thousand
gallons. Um, so if you feel like, uh,
[50:17] you mentioned you're uh you have one
situation where there's one person in
[50:21] the house versus multiple people in the
homes. Um, one situation could be that
[50:26] you have a leak going on. Uh you'd be
surprised at how much a dripping faucet
[50:31] or a running toilet can consume of
water. Um so if you have a concern about
[50:37] a leak, please call us and we can our
public works our water department can go
[50:41] out and help determine if you have a
leak or not. Um so that's something that
[50:45] we can help you with. Or if you have
other general questions about your bill,
[50:48] uh please call us. We're happy to answer
those questions.
[50:52] So that helps uh with with water fees.
Uh helps you understand there. Doug, I'm
[50:58] not a fan of how California runs their
government either, but one thing that
[51:01] you mentioned
uh yes, they did freeze property taxes
[51:05] for existing homeowners, but anybody new
that's buying a home make makes up for
[51:10] that.
>> That's correct.
[51:12] » So
you pay the tax.
[51:14] » Yeah. So So it's
>> it's murder for the the new people that
[51:20] are buying. So, you know, there there's
there's So, I'm not going to comment one
[51:26] way or the other, but that that I just
want that to be known. Um, council, what
[51:31] other things that were brought up that
that we we could answer?
[51:34] » I'll touch on the Prop 13 if that's
okay. A little bit more, mayor. I do
[51:37] have a mother-in-law or my in-laws are
in California and and Prop 13, the grass
[51:42] is not always greener. As I analyze
their utility bill or their property tax
[51:47] bill compared to their neighbors, they
pay 100% of their property taxes. So
[51:50] when the gentleman next door moved in at
$700,000, he pays $7,000 a month or a
[51:55] year for his property taxes while they
continue to pay $1,800 a month. But they
[52:00] have so much debt because they have no
money from the property taxes that their
[52:04] property taxes are are quite a bit
because of the the bonds that they have
[52:09] to take out because they don't have any
money. The biggest downfall of the Prop
[52:13] 13 is that when you leave the county,
you then pay that new rate. So, you pay
[52:19] that higher amount in the new county.
But what's one thing that doesn't move
[52:22] counties, and that's commercial
businesses. So, Disneyland hasn't moved.
[52:26] So, their property taxes have been
frozen. So, the residents are stuck
[52:30] filling in that gap of what commercials
left behind. So, right now, there's a
[52:34] lot of legislation in California to undo
the damage that Prop 13 has done. Just
[52:39] want to throw that out there.
>> Other things that were brought up,
[52:45] council, that staff that I might be
missing to help answer their their
[52:49] questions as they commented.
>> We had a question about the garage
[52:52] doors. Can you just clarify the amount
of doors? It seems like we reduced it.
[52:57] » Yes, we did. We are not replacing all of
them. I think we're only doing two if I
[53:01] remember right.
>> Garage doors went from four to two. And
[53:05] one of the arguments that has been
shared is that leaving it on the shelf
[53:09] is is definitely an opportunity, but you
lose the warranty if it's sitting on the
[53:12] shelf. So buying it um and installing
it, you you get the warranty whether
[53:18] it's one year or limited warranty. And
so if you have it on the shelf, then you
[53:21] lose that warranty.
>> I'm not I'm just making an argument of
[53:25] one of the reasons why it's important.
>> Sure.
[53:28] » Ridiculous objection.
>> I understand.
[53:30] » Businesses large businesses can put them
on the shelfy
[53:35] They still put on make it work and buy
again.
[53:38] » Let let us continue.
>> We're we're not just debating back and
[53:43] forth. We're just let's just answer the
questions for now. Doug,
[53:47] » um another question was uh a discussion
on replacing vehicles. Um do you want to
[53:54] address that? Um, so one of the
advantages of of local government, we
[53:59] have access to state contract pricing,
which is pricing that is better than
[54:04] what's available to the public. So
there's a balance that you try to strike
[54:09] when purchasing a new vehicle and
selling of that vehicle. The longer you
[54:13] hold on to it, the less value it has. So
there's a balance that you try to retain
[54:16] as much value. and we analyze when's a
good time to sell it to retain its value
[54:21] to recover as much as we can in its
value to help purchase the new one
[54:24] because we have access to state contract
pricing. So that's I don't know Nate if
[54:29] you have anything else to add to that.
>> Yeah. No, I don't have the numbers off
[54:32] the top of my head but uh that model has
served us well. Uh we just sold um the
[54:39] couple vehicles in public works that
were about four years old. Um, and the
[54:45] difference between our purchase price
and our sale price was only a couple
[54:48] thousand dollars.
>> It's $500 a year and essentially in the
[54:53] leasing of that vehicle.
>> So, when we can sell a vehicle at the
[54:56] right time where it's still somewhat
new,
[55:02] » you're able to get use out of it, but
still recoup your original purchase cost
[55:07] almost. Um, and I think our our team's
done a good job at trying to balance
[55:12] that.
Now certainly there's vehicles that get
[55:16] a little more use like our parks
vehicles. Those certainly do not get
[55:19] replaced um like our admin vehicles
would.
[55:24] » And of course the value with that is
less maintenance cost. So with a smaller
[55:27] fleet mechanics or contracting out for
[clears throat] those services. We're
[55:32] not replacing tires, we're not replacing
brakes uh or anything like that. So you
[55:37] in the long run uh the the cost of
maintenance is less with that
[55:42] » and most major repairs are done under
warranty.
[55:48] » I have just a couple of things I'd like
to say.
[55:51] Number one, I started where you are. So
when you talk sometimes it's emotional
[55:58] for me because I was where you are.
I've got you beat. I drive a 2005 car.
[56:05] So, there's probably not many people
that are tighter than I am. And if you
[56:09] don't believe me, I'll give you my kids'
phone numbers because
[56:13] growing up, they were never allowed to
drink a soda pop. And they never go to a
[56:16] restaurant now. But what they don't
order soda pop because their mother
[56:19] never let them have a soda pop in a
restaurant. So, I'm pretty tight. I've
[56:24] been on the council for 10 years. I have
voted against property tax increase and
[56:31] I have voted for property tax increase,
but I'm pretty fussy over
[56:37] what I'm going to vote for. So, I look
at it and I think it's hard. Sometimes
[56:44] you see what the property tax p is and
this was where I was and I'm like, come
[56:50] on guys, find some things to cut back.
But what you don't realize is we have
[56:54] just like they said we went from four
garage door openers to two garage door
[56:58] openers because we were kind of like
you. We're like we're a little iffy on
[57:02] that one. But you know we we worked with
our employees and and we did this is not
[57:09] everybody's wish list. We don't let
everybody come in and say you know what
[57:15] do you want this year? What do you need
this year? And so what you're seeing is
[57:20] they have brought in their wish list and
Brandt cuts it way back and then we cut
[57:26] it back further so that you know it
isn't. Do I worry about people paying
[57:31] their property taxes? Very very much so.
I live in the older part of Centerville,
[57:38] so I live by some older people whose
property taxes are going up and and it's
[57:45] really hard for them to pay them. And I
have my own feelings, but all I can
[57:51] control is the city. I'd really like to
see something done for the older people
[57:56] who've paid taxes their whole life. But
then again, it's like California. If we
[58:01] lower the the older people's the younger
people's go up, did I have more money
[58:07] then? I'm on a very fixed income. Do I
have money now? So, that's another thing
[58:13] I think we also need to remember when
you're asking us to cut things back. I
[58:18] have people say to me, "Well, you put
this in you put the pickle ball courts
[58:22] in." The people of Centerville voted for
that. It's a wrap tax, which tells me
[58:28] they want the parks. they want the
different amenities in their city. And
[58:33] so when they vote for that wrap tax, it
it does tell me that they that they do
[58:39] want that. Um when you talked about the
vehicles a while ago, the sewer came out
[58:45] and they were driving and I don't
remember what they were called, but my
[58:49] husband came right home and wanted one.
The fanciest pickup truck out there.
[58:53] [clears throat] I called the city or the
sewer department right up and I'm like,
[58:56] "What are you thinking?" Well, they
informed me that the resell value of the
[59:02] really fancy trucks was a lot better
than the other one. So, did I agree with
[59:07] everything they were doing? No. But then
the city brought us this and after being
[59:12] on here for 10 years, I can tell you our
maintenance costs are going down. I'm
[59:16] shocked when they come in on a state
uh contract. We buy the vehicles at a
[59:22] really good price, but then we sell them
to the average person. So, we are only
[59:28] losing a couple thousand dollars on them
and we have no
[59:33] um maintenance on them. I mean, we're
not having to fix. They're still under
[59:38] warranty. So, you know, that that helps.
Um
[59:45] trying to make sure I get everything. Uh
just and this doesn't do with the tax
[59:50] increase, but on your water bill. I
know. I was just helping a neighbor with
[59:54] theirs who's unfortunately had a leak
and they've paid $700 more in the last
[1:00:00] two years and didn't even know they had
a leak. So, I've been trying to help
[1:00:03] with them, but I was interested to know
that we're charged by to by the thousand
[1:00:10] a gallons that we use and the first
5,000 is $168
[1:00:16] per gallon. So if you're using
>> thousand gallons. So if you're using
[1:00:25] 10,000 gallons
more than you said uh a relative, it's
[1:00:34] only going to save you or cost you $168.
But I want to keep that that way because
[1:00:41] I don't want to charge people. Now, if
you've got a swimming pool and you can
[1:00:46] afford all of that, then I think we
should charge this higher end. But then
[1:00:50] I come up with the concern about these
poor people that didn't really
[1:00:53] understand the water bill. What would it
have been if we'd have been charging
[1:00:57] them more? So, I'm trying to figure out
how we can charge more bigger water
[1:01:01] users, but make sure that it isn't the
leaps of the people that we're charging.
[1:01:06] So, I do want you to know that I care
very much. Um, I think it's very
[1:01:12] important that we have a police officer.
I I think I've gone out and talked to a
[1:01:19] lot of citizens. This is kind of a hard
one to say, but as you can see, we don't
[1:01:24] have a lot of people here. So, I think a
lot of people are feel like we're doing
[1:01:29] a pretty good job. It's frustrating to
me that this room isn't full.
[1:01:34] I think if we've got a tax increase, we
should be hearing from 500 of you
[1:01:38] instead of just a few.
But the other my only other thing is you
[1:01:45] have to know when I talk to my
um department heads and I talked to Mike
[1:01:51] from public works and he tells me that
pipe is now, you know, 10 times more
[1:01:56] than it was 10 years ago. Well, I
understand that because my food is, but
[1:02:03] somehow we have to still fix the water
leaks. We have to have wages that
[1:02:10] compete with the employees. I mean, our
employees wages I I look at sometimes,
[1:02:16] I'm thinking, wow. But on the other
hand,
[1:02:20] I pay, you know, more for anybody that
comes and does anything for me. I want
[1:02:24] to keep our good employees. We have
excellent employees here.
[1:02:29] Uh, I don't think our health our health
insurance is anything that's debatable.
[1:02:34] We don't have a choice on our fire
department
[1:02:38] and I am happy to pay an extra $5 a
month if it's going to bring the police
[1:02:44] department
to our homes faster. I've had my elderly
[1:02:50] mother living with me and I've called
the police department and the fire
[1:02:54] department my fair share of times in the
last seven years. So, I don't want
[1:02:59] anybody to walk out of here and think I
don't care. I have pushed back. I have
[1:03:04] asked them to cut back. We have told our
police officers in 10 years they asked
[1:03:09] for a new police officer at the
beginning of the budget season every
[1:03:13] year and sometimes they wanted to. We've
told them no. We've told them no. We've
[1:03:18] told them no till we feel like it's now
affecting our police officers because
[1:03:23] they're having to work more. So, I'm
finally giving in to that police
[1:03:28] officer. In 10 years, I've approved one
police officer. So, this will be my
[1:03:32] second police officer I've approved. I'm
not just giving out the farm. Like I
[1:03:38] said, you'll find out I'm tight with the
city, tighter than the employees would
[1:03:43] like me to be, and I'm tight at home.
So, you know, I just want you to to
[1:03:48] understand that this is a hard position
and I understand it more now because I
[1:03:53] was for 20 years I was out there sitting
where you are. But I do fight really
[1:03:59] hard to keep your taxes down. That's why
they're going up an average of $5 a
[1:04:04] month instead of more because if we were
giving them
[1:04:08] what they wanted, it would be a lot
more. And it is concerning that we're
[1:04:12] having to take into our rainy day fund.
And something I don't know if they want
[1:04:16] me to tell you or not, but a lot of that
rainy day fund came from CO money from
[1:04:21] the federal government. So it will run
out. Hopefully we won't have another CO.
[1:04:26] So
that's where we were able to build up
[1:04:30] our funds.
>> Thanks, Councilman Mum. So, I just in
[1:04:36] full in purposes of full disclosure,
maybe council or Nate or Brand or Lisa
[1:04:43] uh or the chief, one of you can help me.
So, we have this new property tax impact
[1:04:49] schedule uh and we have in front of us
that the the just under 370,000
[1:04:55] and we're saying that we're short 1.5
million. We're going to take 1.2
[1:05:00] million. I'm rounding here. 1.17 million
from fund balance and 370,000 with the
[1:05:06] tax increase. We came we came up with
some schedule beforehand that showed we
[1:05:11] could do 370 elsewhere, but this is what
we submitted to the state. So my
[1:05:16] question is this is obviously the
medical increases are going to happen or
[1:05:21] have the South Davis fire assessment
increase is there. It's a reality. We're
[1:05:26] two months into our fiscal year. Uh and
uh my question is this is if we do not
[1:05:34] hire that police officer in the next by
next the end of next June 30th
[1:05:41] uh like I said I just want full
disclosure is that something that uh
[1:05:46] we're penalized by the state for uh you
know because we haven't followed our
[1:05:50] property tax impact schedule or uh
anybody anybody had know the situation
[1:05:56] there are we required to spend the money
that we put on the property tax impact
[1:06:02] schedule within our next fiscal year.
>> That's a good question. One I haven't
[1:06:08] put a lot of thought into.
>> I may if I mayor I did make a couple of
[1:06:11] phone calls and no not again kind of as
we discussed earlier. No, there are no u
[1:06:18] penalties for not implementing exactly
what we have. As long as we're making a
[1:06:23] good faith effort to hire uh an officer,
then we're okay. The the challenge, of
[1:06:29] course, the drawback is if it's used as
an anecdotal
[1:06:33] um at the state legislature saying,
"Hey, look, we gave them this tool and
[1:06:37] and and Centerville says they're going
to hire a police officer and they
[1:06:40] didn't, so we need to get more strict or
change the legislation to really uh get
[1:06:46] into a little bit more. That that's a
possibility, but again, highly unlikely.
[1:06:49] I think the whole entire point of this
was to be more transparent, which this
[1:06:55] this property tax impact schedule is
frustrating in terms of that it's
[1:07:00] somewhat misleading to the residents in
my mind of what we're increasing tax for
[1:07:03] because there's so many other reasons
why we're increasing it. This only shows
[1:07:09] 369,000 when ultimately we experienced
easily identifiable about $670,000 for
[1:07:15] the property tax increases we could have
justified with this increase with all
[1:07:18] the inflation. Right? So, this is what
we're submitting, but it doesn't
[1:07:23] necessarily capture the 1.5 million
shortfall we're experiencing alto
[1:07:27] together and what we need to make up for
that um deduction. So, we're not going
[1:07:33] to be penalized this this year. However,
does it create the argument at the state
[1:07:38] legislature that they revise the rules
and and code to force us to take a
[1:07:43] different approach? That's a
possibility, but I think it's
[1:07:45] justifiable for us. We made the attempt
if we didn't try to recruit an officer,
[1:07:50] then that definitely looks shady. Right.
>> Right. And that's why I preface my
[1:07:55] question with we could have we could
have put a dozen different items here to
[1:08:00] make up the shortfall, you know, but
this is what we chose for the property
[1:08:04] tax impact statement first year for this
for uh I'm repeating myself again to the
[1:08:10] state and I just uh if you don't come
through on what you're saying uh that's
[1:08:16] that's what I wanted a question
>> and what we picked mayor I think is is
[1:08:21] justifiable in terms terms of we're
talking about a new position and as we
[1:08:25] discussed earlier there's a difference
between a funded position and an
[1:08:27] unfunded position. This is going to be a
funded position. Therefore, I believe
[1:08:31] it's fiscally responsible for us to fund
the position. We have building
[1:08:35] custodians that are unfunded positions
[clears throat] approved by council.
[1:08:39] [cough] But we're talking about a new
ongoing expense uh that is going to
[1:08:45] carry forward and putting in here
potentially a software program that we
[1:08:48] use one year and then taking and we
don't continue forward. I think that's
[1:08:52] more misleading to the the public. These
are ongoing uh justifiable and as I've
[1:08:57] shared with council in the past, anytime
we have a new expense, we need that new
[1:09:01] revenue to support that new expense,
particularly a new police officer is the
[1:09:04] argument. South Davis Fire Assessments,
we've been seeing well every year since
[1:09:09] we we joined with South Davis Fire and
and before we've been able to absorb
[1:09:15] these increases with property or sales
tax increases or other revenues. Um but
[1:09:20] sales tax is not increasing. Postcoid
spending habits have sta have changed
[1:09:25] substantially and and that has caused
our sales tax to to be somewhat stagnant
[1:09:30] with only an increase of 2% this year is
what we're forecasting. Um so again,
[1:09:35] we're kind of in this new normal of
figuring out what the spending habits
[1:09:39] will be and what our revenues will be,
but our expenses keep skyrocketing with
[1:09:45] whether it's pipe or asphalt or
equipment or whatever the case might be.
[1:09:48] So, we we've been able to do a good job
of absorbing those increases. It's now
[1:09:53] starting to come to a head. As I've
jokingly said in the past, we found all
[1:09:56] the change in the couch cushions um and
found where we can make sure that we're
[1:10:01] a little bit more tight in some areas
and reduced our expenses in others.
[1:10:05] Department heads, I really appreciate
what they have done going this through
[1:10:07] this exercise with me to make sure that
we keep our increases um as minimal as
[1:10:13] possible this year. But we have found
all the change in our couch cushions and
[1:10:17] and but a new police officer, that's a
whole different ballgame. That's that
[1:10:21] has to have its own revenue source to be
sustainable. Anyway, sorry, I could keep
[1:10:26] going, but I'll stop there.
>> While we're there, mayor, may I
[1:10:30] [clears throat]
>> make a couple of comments with respect
[1:10:32] to that. First of all, I I applaud our
[clears throat]
[1:10:37] our state legislature for for trying to
provide a revenue in the truth and
[1:10:44] taxation law where expenditures and
designations for what that increase is
[1:10:50] being guided toward uh are to go for so
that our public knows. I I do and I I
[1:10:59] understand the complicity of how many
items are increasing in our city and
[1:11:04] we're identifying three here. Okay. I I
will say and I I want to say this
[1:11:11] because we have a state representative
here in our audience, but uh when I'm
[1:11:17] I'm a little worried and and frankly
concerned that when we choose which ones
[1:11:24] we identify there, of course, it's
palatable to the public that medical
[1:11:30] insurance is increasing. We got to raise
taxes to cover it. uh medical insurance
[1:11:36] has probably increased every year for
the last 20. We've been able to absorb
[1:11:40] the increase in the insurance with our
tax rates until now. It is increasing.
[1:11:46] We got to cover that somehow. But but
why did we pick that one to put on the
[1:11:51] list? That worries me a little. That
that's a real palatable one. Of course,
[1:11:55] the South Davis Fire Assessment, the
fire department has been necessitating
[1:12:00] and requested assessments to us for
years. We've absorbed those assessments
[1:12:06] in other years. And so to include just
those I love that we're getting more
[1:12:12] more transparent. I think we can get
even better by doing things that are
[1:12:19] that that enhance the transparency
because there are some areas this
[1:12:23] council knows very well as we've been
through audit or budget debating that
[1:12:29] that Councilman Banganger is not going
to be supporting this increase. Uh and
[1:12:34] there are reasons that I believe we
could tighten our belt in areas I've
[1:12:39] suggested 132,000 of them. very little
of that was was acceptable to to the
[1:12:47] other members of the council, which
disappoints me. But I appreciate like
[1:12:51] what Robins just or council member Mikum
has just pointed out, there are some
[1:12:57] legitimate needs. I would be supporting
a tax increase for a police officer. Uh
[1:13:05] I [clears throat] I have
I have vetted I've looked into that
[1:13:09] thoroughly. I I understand the number of
reasons the chief has pointed out and I
[1:13:17] give public safety a huge priority in
governmental provision of services to a
[1:13:24] city or or county or whatever. And the
sentiment in our country of defund the
[1:13:29] police just aggravates most all of us
with rational thinking. And and so there
[1:13:37] is a sentiment that that's turned to
where maybe we need to support our first
[1:13:42] responders, especially our public safety
and police officers. And given the
[1:13:47] situation Centerville's in with having
to cover shifts that are uncovered, the
[1:13:51] the increase in the need for public
safety with our big box stores and more
[1:13:56] vandalis more uh what is it? Uh
uh it's not vandalism, it's uh theft.
[1:14:03] shoplifting. There's the word. And and
those things. Uh I I want our city safe
[1:14:09] and I want our officers safe and have
enough. So I can see that I I would have
[1:14:15] supported a smaller increase that would
have included the ability for us to get
[1:14:20] a police officer. Uh some of those other
areas. And by the way, Nate, you you
[1:14:26] pointed out well some of the services
that are provided by our city, there are
[1:14:30] some that are are decreasing. Uh
Centerville City used to be able to
[1:14:34] provide a cemetery plot for residents
who passed away. We can't provide that
[1:14:40] anymore and we've had a citizen vote on
that who supported a bond to even do it.
[1:14:45] And the challenge there not been lack of
desire. Property acquisition is a big
[1:14:50] deal. But that's a that's a
an attribute or a service that our city
[1:14:56] doesn't provide anymore. There are other
areas of our city where I think we could
[1:15:01] we could do some some belt tightening
and I we've done a little uh I think we
[1:15:08] could do more. So So I want the the
public to understand I wish more people
[1:15:13] were here. It would be so helpful to
understand their perspective and for
[1:15:17] theirs to understand our difficulty in
trying to meet these needs and our
[1:15:23] frustration when it is seemingly seen as
wants but sometimes appropriately
[1:15:29] identified as wants rather than needs.
And I wish we could uh I wish it was an
[1:15:35] easy choice to make. It's never an easy
choice to make. Uh but for those reasons
[1:15:43] and then some of the things I do believe
we need to do haven't been incorporated
[1:15:47] into our budget. I I I want to mention
one other thing. Uh I applaud staff for
[1:15:55] identifying it hasn't been brought up
once here tonight about the impact of
[1:15:59] this increase on our business community.
uh staff went to some extra effort and
[1:16:06] Paul or or uh legislator Cutler uh if
you'd be aware when when the truth in
[1:16:15] taxation notice went out and it
identified how much an average home in
[1:16:19] Centerville would increase it used the
same number for a business. It used the
[1:16:25] a number of average home $660,000 or
something. Okay, a business at 660 would
[1:16:32] pay it was about $100 more. Well, the
fact of the matter is, thank you staff
[1:16:37] for identifying as my request that that
the average business in Centerville
[1:16:42] values property-wise 1.7 million. So,
the impact on on the average business in
[1:16:48] Centerville is 316 $369.
[1:16:54] uh that's a big difference and to any
businessman and then it's compounded
[1:16:59] that doesn't that's not an expense you
pay this year and you're done with it as
[1:17:03] we raise taxes that's an expense they
will pay from here going forward forever
[1:17:07] because taxes we know never go down and
then it compounds as they're raised
[1:17:11] going forward so our but our businesses
aren't here I get it you know they're uh
[1:17:19] they most of them were only thinking
they're paying $100 more because the the
[1:17:24] notification was a little bit
misleading, but uh but that's
[1:17:30] [clears throat] that's where we're at
for that reason. And then and then our
[1:17:34] city uh
I also want to point out for those who
[1:17:39] are forthright and taking enough time to
be here tonight, you know, this isn't
[1:17:43] the only increases. Our water bill in
this budget's going up 7%.
[1:17:49] And last year, storm drain fees went up
50%.
[1:17:54] And uh there are there are challenges,
needs that need to be met. Sometimes we
[1:18:01] need to tighten our belt a little
tighter. I know I'm the old guy on the
[1:18:06] council. I'm conservative and I and I I
live with some some thoughts from the
[1:18:13] past and I know expenses are greater in
this day and age.
[1:18:17] I I'm one who believes that incremental
races are more palatable and more
[1:18:24] appropriate than big large
15
[1:18:30] point whatever percent is a large
increase. Cola being at 2.9 I I think
[1:18:37] there's justification for some
incremental maybe yearly but I I I will
[1:18:43] not be supporting our our proposed
budget or or
[1:18:48] » Thanks, Councilman Banger. For point of
discussion, and I don't I don't want to
[1:18:53] be competitional, but but I do want to
ask you one thing. Uh you did identify
[1:18:59] $132,000
in areas where we could cut within our
[1:19:02] budget. And some of that we did cut, but
let's pretend that we didn't cut any of
[1:19:07] that. Okay. Then 132,000 is about
exactly what medical insurance increases
[1:19:14] and South Davis fire assessment
increases are just a little bit more. So
[1:19:19] uh you just stress for us how important
and police officer position is you
[1:19:24] support it. So does that on that based
on that theory would you support a 10
[1:19:30] to cover the the the police salary?
>> Would that cover the police officer
[1:19:36] allocation? Brand
>> uh 10 to 12. Yeah, about 10 roughly
[1:19:42] [clears throat]
>> because let's say that you got all that
[1:19:45] 132,000. We did take some of it. But
let's say you got all that and we've
[1:19:50] we've that that would still leave the
police that you ought to support. So
[1:19:54] that leaves like he says 10 to 12%. Then
we'd still have to inc uh in do a tax
[1:20:01] increase for
>> to fully fund that with with this
[1:20:04] budget,
>> right? with with an increase to fully
[1:20:08] fund it with an increase
>> because I just throw that out to you
[1:20:11] because that sure is an option out
there. Uh just if if that's important to
[1:20:17] you to state that hey I could support a
police increase and a 10 to 12% but not
[1:20:22] a 15%. You know so
>> with that mayor I I appreciate that but
[1:20:27] also I'd need some direction from
council where you're cutting that
[1:20:31] additional amount from in the budget
today.
[1:20:33] » Right. Yeah. Right. I'm I'm just I'm
just stating that that this that uh just
[1:20:39] in in theory if you did that we didn't
eliminate those 132,000. We eliminated
[1:20:44] some of it. I'd have to go back through
the notes of that.
[1:20:47] » And to clarify that that
part of that was the garage door openers
[1:20:51] that have come up tonight. When they
were first presented, it was nine garage
[1:20:55] door openers for $20,000.
Okay. Now, we did come down, but I I
[1:21:00] just You said four to two. That's not
quite accurate.
[1:21:05] » I
>> I do I do want to share, but you're
[1:21:07] talking about one-time expenses, right?
So, that's why we have fund 47s for
[1:21:11] those onetime expenses. So, 20 grand is
going to go away next year. So, again,
[1:21:16] we're trying to focus on the items that
are an ongoing expense that we see
[1:21:20] year-over-year, not one-time expenses.
Buying a new vehicle is a onetime
[1:21:23] expense, right? So, new police officer
is a year-over-year commitment. And so
[1:21:28] focusing on the property tax should be
focused on that year-over-year
[1:21:31] commitment. You if this exercise has
taught us anything, which I actually
[1:21:34] Nate and I have talked about this, we we
actually appreciated this exercise of
[1:21:38] the property tax impact statement
because it gave us an opportunity to
[1:21:41] really sit down and look at those
increases and then really sit down and
[1:21:45] say, can we do without? And the answer
is, well, no, that's what we presented.
[1:21:49] We already have done without. We've
already cut where we possibly can cut.
[1:21:53] But so when you're talking about
reducing it, we have a $ 1.5 million
[1:21:56] shortfall and it does include the fund
47 one-time projects in that budget. The
[1:22:01] issue [clears throat] that we're faced
with, Nate, you'll have to tell me what
[1:22:04] the number is. We we need our general
fund to help fund those one-time
[1:22:09] expenses
as year-over-year because we we do buy
[1:22:14] two police vehicles a year. And so even
though it's a one-time expense, it's
[1:22:18] kind of an ongoing expense. And so we
need the general fund budget to cover
[1:22:22] those those schedules, those rotations
that we've built in to make sure we
[1:22:26] replace those vehicles so they don't get
too worn out. Um things like that. So
[1:22:31] really we're trying to do our best to to
take the general fund that we have left
[1:22:36] that we transfer to fund 47 for the
capital projects, but that is overtime
[1:22:40] dwindled and now we have to use a lot
more of the fund 47 to balance this
[1:22:45] budget, which is not sustainable. So
again, when you're looking for things to
[1:22:49] cut, we're talking about ongoing less
parks maintenance, less road repair.
[1:22:54] We're talking about less public safety,
which is a huge, not trying to pick on
[1:22:57] you, chief, but that's $5 million.
That's that's half of our budget. And so
[1:23:03] labor is definitely the most expensive
part of our budget. So when you're
[1:23:06] talking about trying to cut where we
need to cut, that's what we're talking
[1:23:10] about. Not whether we buy a garage door
opener or 10 or 100. Agree. It's about
[1:23:15] those ongoing expenses to run the city
that we're required to do. So,
[1:23:20] » and others opportunities for that which
we never addressed
[1:23:24] are the possibility of a smaller
increase for our our employees. And
[1:23:32] » but we're doing a compensation study
this year, right, to see where we are.
[1:23:36] And I think it's really critical before
we make any knee-jerk reactions, we we
[1:23:40] do need to compare what other cities are
doing because that's who we're losing
[1:23:42] our employees to. And you have to be
very careful because employees are our
[1:23:46] number one asset. You start losing
employees, it becomes really difficult
[1:23:50] to maintain a culture. I don't want to
throw a city on the bus, but there's a
[1:23:54] city in Weber County that experienced a
pretty high tax rate that have had
[1:23:57] challenges with employee turnover. And
once that starts turning, it's really
[1:24:01] difficult to overturn. We have a great
community. We have great staff. And so
[1:24:05] it is critical that we protect our
staff. We don't need to be the best
[1:24:08] paying in the state, but we also don't
want to be the lowest paying that we're
[1:24:11] losing our employees to other
communities. We want to be fair, fair
[1:24:15] enough that they stay here because we do
have great employees. But that's what
[1:24:18] we're trying to protect here. We're not
trying to be the highest paid. We're not
[1:24:21] competing against those cities. We just
want to make sure we reward those that
[1:24:24] have devoted their time to Centerville.
>> And council, I I apologize. We have been
[1:24:29] through all these discussions previously
through our budget hearing. this my
[1:24:34] fellow council members know where I
stand. We differ in opinion on some of
[1:24:38] these things. I think with the police
officer, maybe we we we go with that.
[1:24:43] Okay, maybe we buy one. We use one of
the older cars for the new police
[1:24:47] officer this for this year and then next
year your budgets are in a different
[1:24:52] situation. I just there are ways I don't
want to go down rabbit holes of every
[1:24:57] expenditure. We don't have time or or
the ability to do that tonight, but I
[1:25:03] generally that's that's where I'm at. I
wanted to make that identified and
[1:25:11] » we did do that over six sessions which
are all open to the public as well too.
[1:25:15] Mhm.
>> And I respect all of of everything you
[1:25:17] said and if you've seen I'm more on the
conservative side, but I also have seen
[1:25:24] over 10 years if we lose an employee it
by the time we get them up and get them
[1:25:30] trained, we've lost more money. So, I'd
rather pay our employees a little bit
[1:25:36] more and keep them than being paid for
what I feel like is nothing because this
[1:25:41] employee is all trained, does a great
job, and I've got to bring this one. I
[1:25:46] mean, but probably nine out of 10 police
officers we hire have absolutely no
[1:25:50] police experience at all. And we're
paying to send them to the uh
[1:25:55] » academy
>> academy. And the thing about that is it
[1:25:58] used to be when my son first wanted to
be a police officer, he was up between
[1:26:05] 150 people for every job. And so he
didn't go there because and now it's
[1:26:10] really hard to hire a police officer.
And like I said, probably at least eight
[1:26:15] out of 10 of them don't even have any
police experience. So, am I gonna lose a
[1:26:21] eight-year, a 10y year, a 15year police
officer over a percentage of increase
[1:26:29] compared to having to hire somebody, pay
them their wages, send them to the
[1:26:35] academy. That kills me. I feel like I'm
paying for nothing. So, I'd rather pay
[1:26:40] for the good commodity I have than the
unknown commodity that I might be
[1:26:45] getting because it cost me a lot to get
them up there. I think because of the
[1:26:49] experience that we have with staff, we
we run a pretty lean staff and we're
[1:26:55] able to do that because we do have some
significant experience that I mean some
[1:27:01] of those people are going to start
retiring and I'm I'm worried for us. But
[1:27:06] um you did mention the cola increases
that maybe it should have been less. I I
[1:27:11] felt like it's not that I didn't hear
you or agree with you. I just happen to
[1:27:15] agree with the city manager that we want
to be very careful about that until we
[1:27:18] do that rate study because we will be in
a situation that we cannot return from
[1:27:24] very easily. I also want to comment on
um I I do appreciate that when um I
[1:27:30] challenged you to find where we would
cut in the budget that you did find
[1:27:34] $132,000.
I didn't totally agree with every item.
[1:27:37] You're right. We don't always agree, but
that didn't accommodate for the 369,000
[1:27:44] and it didn't accommodate for this the
total of the 700,000 which um Brandt is
[1:27:50] right. We had more than that. We just
opted to use the rainy day fund. Um also
[1:27:56] I want to make one comment on the
cemetery. Yes, the the voters did vote
[1:28:00] for a cemetery. That bond would increase
our property taxes. We are not paying
[1:28:05] for that right now. So that is, you
know, that is a concern for me that we
[1:28:10] that we also watch that. Um
people voted for it. We're looking for
[1:28:16] options, but we have to be very careful
with that because that would be a
[1:28:20] significant
ad onto the property tax potentially. Um
[1:28:25] I do want to mention I'm a member of the
rec district. The bond for that building
[1:28:31] did drop off this year. So, not I mean,
we did have one thing go off of the
[1:28:36] property property tax bill. Um, when we
talk about fees, um, I totally agree
[1:28:43] with you, council member Bangader, that
we should do those slowly and smaller
[1:28:49] increases are easier to absorb. In the
case of the storm drain fees, those went
[1:28:54] on for many, many years without an
increase. And that's what happens when
[1:28:57] we don't get those increases. Um, as far
as water, because I worked for um the
[1:29:04] state division of water resources, I
have watched very carefully what we're
[1:29:08] charging for our water fees. They have a
formula that they use when they do loans
[1:29:13] for cities and they go into the
affordability and we are meeting and are
[1:29:18] under the affordability
for residents in Centerville. Now,
[1:29:23] that's a a modified adjusted gross
income. It's not going to be the lowest
[1:29:28] income in the city, but it is that's
probably
[1:29:32] the best that we can do. But at the end
of the day, I will I can't apologize for
[1:29:38] making sure that we provide safe,
reliable water. That is none of us are
[1:29:43] going to survive for more than three
days without it. So, that is really
[1:29:48] something that we have to consider. I do
want to also add that our staff um I was
[1:29:53] in a committee meeting a couple of weeks
ago with one of our committees and um
[1:30:00] Brandt is really good at cutting stuff
out of the budget before we see it.
[1:30:04] Something that we thought was in the
budget got cut this year. So [laughter]
[1:30:08] » Oh, sorry.
>> I do want to say that I do I do
[1:30:11] appreciate that it's not an overly
inflated budget when it gets to us. And
[1:30:16] yes, we do cut into it. We we have gone
through and tried to cut what we can. Um
[1:30:23] so I just I
>> on average just Thanks for that, Council
[1:30:27] Member Hurst. On average, it's about
$1.2 million that Nate and I go through
[1:30:31] the budget and cut out. This year was
actually pretty awesome. They did a good
[1:30:35] job submitting as tight of a budget as
they possibly could. And so I appreciate
[1:30:40] that. And you're right about the
cemetery. the cemetery when rates the
[1:30:44] interest rates were good was about $70 a
year for that cemetery bond. Now the it
[1:30:51] will be a revenue generator, but you
have to be very careful about the
[1:30:54] revenue generation being because you
well you'd have to figure out that
[1:30:58] policy about how much you charge for any
uh plots. If you want to make it as sex
[1:31:02] accessible to the public as possible,
your rates have to be low, but then
[1:31:05] you're not covering the costs. And
>> but don't we have to guarantee it with a
[1:31:09] property tax? the bond has to be on a
property tax.
[1:31:12] » No, it's a it's a general obligation
bond. But nonetheless, it's just again
[1:31:16] something to be mindful of as I've
discussed with you all is that I
[1:31:21] everybody wants something and you have
all these demands all over the place,
[1:31:24] but nobody wants everything. So, you're
trying to find the balance of
[1:31:29] accommodating so many different
interests in this community and because
[1:31:33] you do have people who want more outdoor
space, but then you have people who
[1:31:36] says, "Please, we just got a quiet
neighborhood we don't want to do
[1:31:38] anymore." So you got all these competing
interests and and the issue is there's
[1:31:43] only only so much um income out there
with our residents and you got to
[1:31:47] balance that. So if we do a cemetery
then that potentially cuts away from
[1:31:50] potentially more open spaces for our
kids or a police officer or public
[1:31:54] safety because you can't do a $70
increase for cemetery and then on top of
[1:31:59] that have another property tax increase
for roads and then another property tax
[1:32:02] increase for parks and there's only so
much money. And so that's as we go
[1:32:06] forward, that's what you're all trying
to decide is is how we prioritize all
[1:32:10] these different wants in our community.
And and Centerville has done a really
[1:32:14] good job being as fiscally conservative
as possible. I think we've done a really
[1:32:19] good job and and staff does a really
good job being mindful of that fiscal
[1:32:23] conservativeness. We have an excellent
staff who always trying to find ways to
[1:32:27] get grants. Mike's getting millions of
dollars of grants on road projects,
[1:32:31] water projects, drainage projects that
our residents don't see that and we
[1:32:35] don't have increases. We've been able to
absorb these increases in the fire
[1:32:39] assessment and all these areas because
Nate and I have gone through the budget
[1:32:43] and said, "Look, there's there's 20
grand." The the padding that was I
[1:32:47] wouldn't necessarily say there's a whole
bunch of padding, but if there's any any
[1:32:50] areas where we feel like historically
that we are not spending that much,
[1:32:55] we'll take that 20 grand away or that
$500 away. Nate's Nate loves it when I
[1:32:59] do that. When I find $100, being like,
"Hey, we're cutting this hundred bucks."
[1:33:03] So that's what we have done in the seven
years I've been here is finding those
[1:33:06] little pockets, but it doesn't change
the fact that inflation has increased
[1:33:10] drastically, especially after co and
that's that's the crux where we're at
[1:33:13] right now is that we have found the
areas our budget is so dang good and
[1:33:17] tight that we know where things are
going. Um there's not a lot of padding,
[1:33:21] but that means we can't absorb these
increases anymore. The increases have to
[1:33:27] be revenue revenue has to match the
increases. So, council, uh, we've, I
[1:33:33] believe, have tried to answer, uh, the
questions that were brought up in the
[1:33:37] public hearing. Uh, you've all had a
chance to
[1:33:41] » I would like just
>> the comment other other than Councilman
[1:33:44] Palmer, and I'll let you comment,
[laughter]
[1:33:46] » but I'm trying to get us back to what we
got to get back to. We have two
[1:33:50] resolutions in front of us uh that we
have to decide on tonight. Started this
[1:33:55] meeting, I said we have, this is what we
discussed in this meeting. We we don't
[1:34:00] discuss other all all this relates. I'm
not saying we're not staying on topic,
[1:34:03] but but let's get back to these two
resolutions. Councilman Plamer, yes. Not
[1:34:09] heard from you. And
>> thank you. Thank you. I don't have a
[1:34:11] lot.
>> Want to give you your floor time.
[1:34:13] » I don't have a lot because really what's
been said is how I feel. I I I would
[1:34:18] like to sustain what uh Councilman
Member Mikum has said, what council
[1:34:23] member Bangader has said. Uh, I I I I
agree with so much of what you say. Uh,
[1:34:31] I appreciate Council Member Hurst's
questions and I I I would just like to
[1:34:37] say that I I I [cough]
understand and I feel for our um
[1:34:42] residents. I too uh feel that sometimes
our taxes are uh feeling uh like they're
[1:34:54] they're getting out of control as we
start seeing 33% increases over 5 years.
[1:35:00] uh sir I I absolutely feel that that is
something that we need to uh
[1:35:09] take a look at and perhaps that's
something that uh you know at the state
[1:35:13] level uh you know when
uh people reach a certain age or uh
[1:35:22] people's uh income such as social
security that's taxed things of that
[1:35:26] nature can be looked at at the state
level to um allevate ate some of those
[1:35:31] uh taxes at certain times in our lives.
And so I think that um from that
[1:35:37] perspective, we can say that
we can only hope for some uh change uh
[1:35:43] at the state level. But at this point in
time, I would like to say that
[1:35:50] uh over the last few years and getting
to know the people that work in the
[1:35:55] city, they are very honest
and they do due diligence to uh make
[1:36:03] sure that we are not frivolously
spending money uh that we are uh doing
[1:36:11] the right thing with our the taxpayers's
money uh focusing in on public safety
[1:36:18] and the roads and the uh infrastructure
underneath the roads that are is so
[1:36:24] important to our uh way of life and our
our standard of living. And I believe
[1:36:29] that that is uh something that I feel uh
we're all blessed with here in this in
[1:36:34] this city is uh something that um many
people from outside of Centerville look
[1:36:40] in and say,
"Wow, that is that's such a great place
[1:36:45] to live." And I and I am tr truly
grateful to the people that work here
[1:36:50] for doing uh those things that will
make these this situation less difficult
[1:37:00] because yes, I don't want to raise taxes
and I believe that tightening our belt
[1:37:09] is actually something that I do in my
home. I will tighten my belt. I think
[1:37:15] that um at this point we uh could
tighten our belt, but what would that do
[1:37:22] next year in the year after? Incremental
um
[1:37:28] increases into for this I think are
better than holding off and waiting for
[1:37:35] the 15% increase. Uh
[1:37:41] so ultimately
we're faced with the difficult decision
[1:37:47] to pass a a a steep tax increase. I too
would be inclined to really just focus
[1:37:56] on the the police officer and say, you
know, hey, let's let's slow down this uh
[1:38:03] a little bit. But as our city manager
has stated, that's only
[1:38:10] postponing what we are going to need to
do, which is find other sources of
[1:38:15] revenue or
decrease or or the uh expenses. And we
[1:38:22] we tried that. We we had six meetings on
that. And I I feel that uh we did our
[1:38:30] due diligence in that regard. So,
with that being said, I I
[1:38:40] will support the tax increase for the
police officer. I've been very very
[1:38:46] upset and I've I've stated as such about
the fire assessment and how it has gone
[1:38:52] up without much uh notice and then and
that they also have the ability to raise
[1:39:00] our property taxes because they are that
a taxing entity. So for that I I'm
[1:39:08] a little less supportive of that but I
do see that that is still needing to be
[1:39:13] funded. So, where do we fund it from? We
either need to raise the taxes here or
[1:39:19] somewhere else. So, what I'm going to
say is that uh and the medical
[1:39:24] insurance, that's just a a one of those
line items that we can't change. So,
[1:39:33] uh
I guess what I would like to ask as we
[1:39:39] uh
just get some clarification is
[1:39:45] if I could ask the chief,
are we
[1:39:51] feeling that because I I actually want
to just dovetail onto what the mayor had
[1:39:57] asked about with the um
if are we going to be able to um get
[1:40:04] this position filled this year
and what's your confidence level in that
[1:40:10] and uh and are we fully staffed at this
particular moment in time?
[1:40:17] » Okay. So, um
yeah, I I think we'll get the position
[1:40:22] filled this year.
Um the question is whether these
[1:40:26] positions are staffed by someone out
covering a shift and being effective as
[1:40:31] a police officer. That's a whole
different question, right? Because you
[1:40:34] lose an officer, then you go through the
hiring process, you identify someone,
[1:40:38] you send them to the police academy,
they get out of the police academy, then
[1:40:42] they go out on the road for three months
where they're paired up with a training
[1:40:45] officer where they're not they're not
effective as a as an officer yet because
[1:40:50] they're they're together. There's two of
them together, but they're filling just
[1:40:52] one position out on the road, one car.
They're responding to all the calls
[1:40:56] themselves. And so the the I I believe
yes, I I believe we'll get the position
[1:41:00] filled, but the question is whether
they're going to be out on the road on
[1:41:04] their own effectively
replacing that person,
[1:41:09] you know, replacing that position. And
that's always been our heartache. And
[1:41:13] you've talked about the struggles with
finding certified officers.
[1:41:18] um you know when when I went through the
academy I self sponsored and a lot of us
[1:41:22] paid our own way you know took it as a
college class we came out and that's
[1:41:26] just how it was before and now it's very
you're very limited in who you can pick
[1:41:30] up that way and most times you you
sponsor people through the academy and
[1:41:35] so you know we we lost an officer in
June of 25
[1:41:39] that officer is out on field training
right now and he's slated to get off end
[1:41:43] of October beginning of November
on on his
[1:41:47] And that's
>> but we did pay their salary while they
[1:41:49] were in the academy, right? Even though
they're not in a shift. And I do want to
[1:41:52] clarify for the record that our
recruitment that's ongoing right now for
[1:41:55] an officer
>> is for the officer who resigned
[1:41:59] » and not necessarily to fill this
position. Just so you know again because
[1:42:03] we've instructed chief that he can't
hire recruit for this position until
[1:42:07] tonight on whether or not you approve
this position. So we're not forcing your
[1:42:10] hand that we hey we're already in the
process. The position he's recruiting
[1:42:14] for is a position, existing position
that was unfilled at this point.
[1:42:18] » You did ask if we're fully staffed. We
are not right. We we we had an officer
[1:42:21] resign go to another department
>> this past week.
[1:42:24] » So, we're looking at seeing uh at least
if this was to pass tonight, you will
[1:42:31] need to hire two police officers to be
what you would say fully staffed.
[1:42:36] » Correct. But with that additional
officer.
[1:42:40] » Okay.
Just for everybody's information, while
[1:42:44] I've been on the council, there actually
have been years that the medical
[1:42:48] insurance went up nothing or almost
nothing. I was shocked, but there have
[1:42:53] been years that the medical insurance
did not raise very much. I wished I had
[1:42:57] the years and the amounts, but I don't.
But
[1:43:00] » it's a different time. I'm saying that
there have been years that though we
[1:43:04] didn't have to absorb that because
you know it was
[1:43:12] » Thank you. All right. Uh
>> Mr. Mayor,
[1:43:15] » yeah,
>> I'm sorry. Can I make one brief comment?
[1:43:18] I know I'm like a a disembodied voice
coming from apparently the ceiling.
[1:43:23] » Um yeah, there was just a reference made
to the property tax increase for the
[1:43:27] mosquito abatement district. and is a
representative on that district. I just
[1:43:31] wanted to comment briefly, the property
tax increase was 25% and as you'll
[1:43:36] recall when I brought this to the
council, that sounds like a very
[1:43:39] significant number, but what that equals
was 66 cents per month on a $600,000
[1:43:45] home. And the reason that we pushed that
through was because we desperately
[1:43:49] needed to construct a new pesticide
storage facility. And my understanding
[1:43:53] is that the mosquito abatement district
has only raised property taxes twice in
[1:43:57] the last two decades. So I just wanted
to as um a representative on that board
[1:44:03] just address that comment and that's all
I have. Thank you.
[1:44:06] » Thanks Councilwoman Haven. All right,
everybody's had a chance to comment that
[1:44:10] there's that.
>> Can I just add one more thing? I just
[1:44:13] just for the people in the room. I think
it's really helpful to know that many of
[1:44:17] these boards like the mosquito abatement
district, the South Davis sewer
[1:44:21] district, the wreck district,
um that all of those have
[1:44:26] representatives from each city, which is
has been very helpful because we as a
[1:44:31] council often know what
the property tax increases are that are
[1:44:37] coming. And we I we do try so carefully
to try and balance that. like if we know
[1:44:42] something big is coming from one, we try
to limit at least I feel like that
[1:44:47] weighs in. It's been helpful to have um
that information from the various
[1:44:53] council members that serve. So I I don't
know if that helps at all, but I think
[1:44:58] that has been a very helpful thing that
we do have elected officials that are
[1:45:03] serving on those boards that kind of see
all of the impacts to the property tax
[1:45:09] statement. One other thing I will add is
since I've been on the council, we have
[1:45:14] not had an increase in our compensation.
We have had I've absolutely not taken
[1:45:21] any more money than we were paid. I'm
still I'm still compensated the same
[1:45:25] this year as I was 10 years ago.
>> But with the pie chart following up with
[1:45:30] Councilwoman Haymon said, you're 60%
that goes to the school district. We
[1:45:36] don't have any representation there.
>> That's true.
[1:45:38] » Okay. We do on mosquito bait, we do on
garbage, we do on sewer, but but your
[1:45:43] biggest chunk of your papaya, we do not
have any representation or say there.
[1:45:48] So, all right. Uh so, uh with uh
[1:45:55] trying to be fair, giving everybody
their time. Uh so, uh I'm looking for
[1:46:01] motions uh on resolution 2026-23
and 2026-24.
[1:46:11] I'll make a motion that we adopt
resolution number 2026-23
[1:46:17] setting the real and personal property
tax rate at 0.001314
[1:46:22] for the general fund for Centerville
City Utah. Do we need to do two separate
[1:46:28] or shall I include them both
>> and do it?
[1:46:32] » Am I okay to do both?
>> Yeah.
[1:46:34] » Okay. and that we adopt resolution
number 2026-24
[1:46:38] adopting the fiscal year 2027 final
budget.
[1:46:45] » Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a
second to that motion?
[1:46:50] » I'll sec I'll second that.
>> We have a second that motion. Do we uh
[1:46:56] last minute for further discussion?
[1:47:03] Okay. If there's no further discussion,
then I guess uh we we will vote on that
[1:47:09] motion. Let's start uh uh with to my
right. Councilwoman Hurst.
[1:47:15] » I
>> I
[1:47:17] » I
Councilwoman H.
[1:47:20] » I.
>> So that motion passes. Uh 4 to one.
[1:47:28] All right. Uh seeing well yeah because
we're truth and taxation we do have no
[1:47:34] other items uh on the budget so or on on
the agenda. So seeing that I would look
[1:47:40] for a motion to adjurnn. So moved.
>> All right.