Welcome all. This is a public meeting as required by the Planning Act to afford
any person an opportunity to make representation with respect to a
proposed official plan amendment for 467 Sunset Drive in the municipality of
Central Elgin. I welcome all those who are here in the gallery as well as those
who are joining us online. Does any member of council have a
disclosure of interest concerning the proposal?
Seeing none. Miss Leach, what method of notice and when was the notice given to
the public for the meeting, please? Mayor Sloan, as per requirements of the
Planning Act, notice was mailed by regular post to every owner of land
within 120 m of the subject land and applicable agencies on February 6th,
2026. An extended circulation also included all residents of nearby
subdivisions, including those located within the city of St. Thomas. Notice
was physically posted to the property by municipal staff and also posted to the
municipal website. Thank you, Miss Leach. I'd now like to
introduce Marylou Tanner, the senior partner of NPG Planning Solutions, to
explain the proposed official plan amendment.
Miss Tanner, welcome back. Thank you very much, Mayor Sloan and
members of the community and members of council and staff. It's my pleasure to
be here this evening for this public meeting under the Planning Act.
And we'll just get the presentation loaded.
For those of you who are able to attend the open house that was held last week
on Tuesday evening, a lot of the material you're going to see this
evening will be similar, but there will be people both here and online who may
not have been had that opportunity. So, we want to give everybody
a fresh fresh perspective and overview of the
proposed official plan amendment. We can go to the next slide, please.
So, this is the hospital lands. They're directly across the street from here. It
won't be news to anyone, but we just want to outline what we're dealing with
in terms of the hospital lands generally at the northeast corner of Sunset and
John Wise Line and then carrying over to Fairview and south of the Miller's Pond
subdivision. It excludes the OPP station on John Wise Line as well as the
Southwest Centre for Forensic Mental Health Care on Sunset. So, we'll go to
the next slide, please. The hospital lands are being divested
from the province of Ontario as the hospital has been closed for a number of
years. In doing so,
the lands do not have clear direction in Central Elgin's official plan on what
their future would be. And And that's not surprising given their given their
long history of hospital and agricultural use. But with the future
divestment of the lands, it's time to develop a plan for the lands' future,
how they will develop and how they will connect to the adjoining communities. We
began this process about 14 months ago with a visioning guiding principles
workshop with council that resulted in the adoption of vision and guiding
principles by council on May 5th, 2025. Earlier this month last month in
February, we developed and brought to council the draft land use plan and what
we call the policy directions. Taking those vision and guiding principles and
teasing them out into more detail and preparing the draft of the land use
plan. This is a statutory public meeting under
the Ontario Planning Act and it is everyone's opportunity to ask questions
and provide comments, feedback, and suggestions. We will be taking notes
this evening and we will be providing a response to all the questions and
comments we received tonight. There are no decisions being made on the proposed
official plan amendment this evening. We will return next month with a
recommended final version of the official plan amendment and mapping. And
your feedback tonight and from last week will be taken into consideration. Should
also say that there were two stakeholder workshops late last week and we
appreciate the people who were able to join us in those and
the feedback we received. We'll go to the next slide, please.
What's coming up on this slide is a graphic of where we began and where
we're headed to. So, as I mentioned, we had a vision workshop in January 2025.
There was a significant amount of technical background work that was
completed in 2025. The majority of it was completed by the
province of Ontario and it included things like market studies and
transportation and natural heritage studies and servicing studies including
stormwater management. We've taken all of that information and translated it to
the policy directions and land use plan that we worked on and released in
February of this year. And we are now in the process of engagement on the
official plan amendment which includes both maps and draft policies. Next
slide, please. Last fall we conducted
extensive public engagement on what we call round one and that occurred in
November 2025 on the land use plan and proposed policy directions. There was
one public open house, one online survey, four stakeholder meetings and we
used a variety of tools to make sure that people were aware
of of the project of what was going on
including many of the notifications that the clerk provided this evening. Total
of 453 resident participants provided input to us.
Next slide, please. So, from the round one engagement, we
heard and this has been a
pretty consistent throughout the project, the importance of housing and
housing affordability and providing housing for people who are choosing to
call Central Elgin home and also ensuring that
as the VW battery plant opens and related businesses that there's housing
opportunities for those workers in Central Elgin.
We heard about the importance of parks and making sure that parks were
accessible and affordable for people to access and protecting natural heritage
features. We heard a great deal about
transportation and mobility including the importance of walkable and bikeable
streets making sure that both cars and pedestrians and and as well cyclists
have safe road network to use and ensuring that we are looking to the
future should transit come into this community.
For community facilities and services, it is really important that people have
a place to shop, that people have a place to go get a coffee, a bank to go
to, that there's community facilities such as a school and a community center
for residents to be able to access within this neighborhood.
And finally we heard the importance of heritage and identity and recognizing
the site's legacy and looking at options for the existing heritage buildings as
well. We'll go to the next slide, please.
The draft official plan amendment for consideration includes the detailed set
of policies with guidance and policy requirements on things such as
housing and parks and servicing, community facilities, the downtown Main
Street area that I'll touch on in a little bit and more. There are series of
maps that I will walk you through this evening as well as an appendix that
shows how the lands will build out and some preliminary thinking on what that
timing looks like for those lands. As I mentioned, we did have a public
open house on February 24th, which was last Tuesday and we had um
at last count I heard 117 people attend, which we're very grateful for all of
people who joined us and were able to provide their input. And the input we
received that night will be responded to as we move forward. We're here tonight
for the statutory public meeting and we are working through all of this
engagement to gather feedback and learn more about changes and issues and
opportunities members of the community have.
We are required to circulate to agencies in this province when we do something
like this, so that has taken place. We are awaiting agency
feedback. That is agencies like the school boards, like the conservation
authority, like of the county of Elgin and we'll look forward to hearing from
them as well. We will be finalizing everything after
the public consultation and agency consultation is concluded and there will
be responses as I mentioned and uh in my experience through processes like
these, there are always updates and edits and changes that occur after we
hear from people. So, we'll go to the next slide, please.
So, I want to start with the land use plan and just to orient everyone, north
is up to the top. The street on the left is Sunset, across the bottom is John
Wise and then turning at the end of the colored map north on Fairview. So, let
me start over at Sunset. We have provided at the corner of John
Wise and Sunset an institutional block of land. This will be for facilities
such as health care, nursing homes, residential care facilities, government
offices and things like that. The province of Ontario has we retain a
minimum of 42 acres of institutional use, which is
what they are going to retain for their purposes to be determined in the future
and this area achieves that plus a little bit left over for something such
as nursing home or a retirement home. As we look just north of that pinky
purple block, there is a road connection. It comes in opposite Karen
Street to line the streets up and be able to provide good
transportation access and that will carry eastward but will not go directly
through to Fairview. The orange areas that you see just off
of Sunset are medium density housing. That would be three to six stories. It
would be things like townhouses, stacked townhouses and low-rise apartment
buildings. You'll see some green areas coming off
of Sunset as well. Those are natural heritage areas.
There is a creek and a conservation authority regulated area around that
creek as well as what we call an ephemeral creek. So it's
there sometimes, it's there not there all the time. It's dry but it has been
identified in the natural heritage study. It will require more work to
understand how it is going to be retained and protected and if it's going
to be retained and protected because it doesn't flow year-round.
The very bright green area just east of Sunset is a stormwater management pond
which is required for stormwater drainage.
As we start to look to the interior, you can see that the orange areas are medium
density housing. That is that three to six story housing
and the yellow is low density housing which is up to three three-ish stories
and it would be single semis, some row houses and
would provide the ability for a lower density form of housing.
One thing to note in those yellow areas which are connected and adjoining
Miller's Pond as well as in the southeast, there are some areas that are
hatched. They will have access via a rear lane because they front on a
collector road and we just want to make sure everybody has safe driveway
movement. So those will be rear lane low density homes.
Within the middle, you can see that there's some red areas. We heard very
clearly from the market study that there is a need for additional commercial
space in this community and through discussions in the council
vision and workshop, it was determined that the appropriate form would be what
we call a downtown main street. So, commercial uses on the ground floor and
apartments above. You'll also see
an area that has in red that is outlined and has a dotted outline and that is a
location for a future grocery store. The very bright blue color will be
future community services, things like a community center and schools.
We have a couple of higher density areas in the future pink that is on John Wise
line and those would be high density apartments. They would be up to eight
stories in height, but no higher than that.
There are a number of parks throughout the community of various sizes. This is
to provide different opportunities for different users. The smaller park would
be children's play equipment and and seating areas. The larger
ones would be for sports facilities such as soccer
fields and baseball diamonds and things like that.
And within the downtown main street area, we also have a small green area
that will be future public plaza in that area.
And then as we moved just a little bit further east, you can see that
there are two blue areas. Those have been identified as having indigenous
archaeological interest, so they will not be developed and they will be
maintained as they are now. There are a couple of other areas that also have a
similar archaeological issue. One is a park and
one is the high density area. Those are European um
interests and they will be dealt with through future archaeological work.
And finally, just up in the very northeast area, there is a provincially
significant wetland surrounded by that blue
archaeological area and that wetland will not be developed. It will be
protected. And finally, there is a storm water pond adjacent to
Fairview Street. We can go to the next slide, please.
Just want to touch on this. We have set building heights in the schedule. It
just makes it easier for people to see visually. The lighter the color, the
lower the height. The darker the color, the higher the height. Everything is
either three or four stories, three to six stories, maximum of eight, which is
the darkest blue. And that is appropriate for the size of
community and this nature of community. We'll go to the next slide, please.
This is the road network schedule. It is very similar, exactly the same actually,
to what you saw on the land use plan. We have included in it
where the roads are going to be and how the community is going to connect. These
roads will be very similar to what you see in other typical subdivisions,
whether in St. Thomas or in Central Elgin.
Just ensuring that there's safe movement of roads, but not creating the
opportunity for cut-through traffic and speeding. If you want to cut through
this future neighborhood, it's going to take you some time, and
that is purposeful. We'll go to the next slide, please.
So, this is the public realm and active transportation plan. And it's important
that we understand that streets will have sidewalks on both sides. We will
have bicycling lanes and facilities for cyclists, but we will also have trail
system, which is shown in green. You can see some of the connections, especially
in the northwest area. We just want to make sure that as we're building this
community, that people have the ability to walk through it, to walk to where
they want to go, and and don't necessarily need to choose a vehicle.
You can see John Wise and on Sunset, there's circles
at some of the intersections. Those will be gateways. They may be roundabouts,
but they'll be something that defines that you're coming into this community.
Sometimes it's public art or banners. There's a lot of different wonderful
opportunities for that. Next slide, please.
This is the preliminary phasing plan and it is um one that we are
continuing to look at. It is very much tied to how much servicing capacity will
be coming in white years. The development is proposed to start at
sunset and move eastward in phase one, which will be to approximately 2031.
Phase two will be 2031 to 2041. Sort of that middle piece with the downtown Main
Street. Downtowns need people living around and they need just customers
close by to be successful. And then the third phase will be the balance um south
of the downtown Main Street and eastward over to Fairview. We don't have timing
for the institutional block uh from the province, so we've left the phasing as
to be determined. I'd like to now turn to some of the key
policy highlights from the official plan amendment that would be found in the
text of the official plan amendment. As I mentioned at the beginning, housing
and housing affordability was a key priority for council. It's uh something
that we've continued to hear about about the availability and affordability of
housing. So, we've put in place a series of policies that um provide
opportunities for housing and housing across what we call the continuum of
housing. So, whether it's people who need assisted housing right through to
um ownership. It includes rental and does provide the ability for people of
all ages and incomes to uh obtain housing in this community. We focus the
residential areas around parks and making sure that all residential areas
are within a 15-minute walk of a park. We've put in place uh policies for
buildings greater than three stories to ensure compatibility with adjoining land
uses, particularly where there is development adjoining that use. We've
put in place requirements uh for additional residential units to be
included in the construction of the low density residential housing to create
the opportunity for more units within the neighborhoods. And finally, although
it's a policy, a housing impact statement is important to help Central
Elgin track goals towards achieving the housing numbers for this plan. We'll go
to the next slide, please. The downtown Main Street was that red
area that I showed you on the land use plan and it is a community focal
focal point. You can see some similar images from other similar sized
communities of what this would look like. As I said, means main floor
commercial with residential above it. It could have office above it. The building
heights will be two to six stories. We find that that's a good relationship to
the street and walkability and creating a really wonderful environment for the
businesses and the people who are visiting those businesses. Parking will
be located behind the buildings or underground, but I will caution that
underground parking is very expensive to build and it may just not be able to be
achieved. Big box retail and large retail plazas will not be permitted and
as I mentioned earlier, we are planning for a grocery store. Next slide, please.
I spoke earlier about the institutional area on Sunset and part of the reason
for that is there's a number of institutional uses along Sunset. I mean
this building is is part of it, but you can also see on the opposite side and
it's important to create that continuity particularly as it's
a very busy traveled road and you want to keep the the traffic to those
institutional uses on that, but also provide a really really well designed
building and quality landscaping. So those policies are in there.
In this section of the plan as well as addressing the heritage conservation and
adaptive reuse of the existing buildings.
For cultural heritage and archaeology, as I mentioned, there
there are some areas that have been identified with First Nations interest
as well as European settler artifacts and those will both be dealt
with appropriately. For the First Nations, it will be
in partnership and working with those nations on what needs to happen in those
areas, and there will be a commemoration and an interpretation plan with the
rights-holding First Nations prepared. We'll go to the next slide,
please.
For the round two public engagement, as I mentioned, we started it earlier this
year on February 9th, we brought a series of reports to council releasing
all the things that we've been talking about,
policy directions, and the draft official plan amendment. We had the open
house, as I mentioned last week, as well as the two stakeholder meetings, and we
are here this evening for this public meeting. You can continue to engage by
sending us your comments in writing. We welcome them, and we will be providing a
response to them. So, this is not your only opportunity to share your thoughts
with us. Um let's turn to the next slide, please.
So, our next steps. Last week was the open house. Tonight,
we are here for the public meeting. The final official plan amendment is
targeted for next month. While this is going on, we continue to
engage with council, agencies, First Nations, as well as the community. We
are committed to listening and responding thoughtfully to
all the feedback that we receive, and we certainly welcome people to provide
their comments, as well as their suggestions, because they are most
welcome, and they will help us uh
incorporate into the plan the community's feedback and
assist with responding to concerns individuals may have.
That concludes my presentation. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mary Lou. I will ask the clerk next. Ms. Leach,
have you received any written submissions on the proposal, please?
Mayor Sloan, correspondence has been received from the following: from Shane
and Breanna Reitsma with 12 listed questions regarding the impacts of the
proposed development, the proposed downtown portion of the new community,
studies and data. From Bernie Shuet with concerns
regarding increased traffic and safety issues, water quality and environmental
impact, loss of wildlife habitat and diversity, cultural and indigenous
significance. Incompatibility with sustainable and
responsible development and impacts to taxpayers.
From Southwestern Public Health outlining services and regulatory
oversight considerations that may apply to the future development. And from Ted
Hallwa regarding use of the existing former hospital buildings.
Thank you, Ms. Leach. I appreciate that.
That's okay. Um, I'm going to ask now, we have a a pretty
um, robust group in the uh, gallery. Um, I'm going to open the floor now for
questions. So, Mary Lou, if you just uh, I'm not sure if uh, anyone here would
like to come forward. As Mary Lou says, this is the
opportunity for your feedback to be heard on the record.
We are being televised and we have the ability now to hear some suggestions,
comments, and feedback. And all I would ask when you come to the
microphone is press the button so that the folks online can hear it. And uh,
give us your name. So, would anyone like to come forward, please?
Welcome, sir.
I think we should base it on seniority and since I'm in the eighth decade, I
think I think I'm the oldest here, maybe.
Just state your name for the record, please.
» My name is Bernie Shuet and I'm associated with the Norma subdivision
here. And we have some major concerns and we
had put in originally in '017 a objection and you and your response
was no development on the lands. So, and I'll get into some of the
details in a moment, and I'll try not to take forever.
And uh, we don't consider that as surplus or useless land. We consider
that agriculture, and we would like to keep it as agriculture. So, I had
trouble getting my our objection in with 40 to 50 people signed. And Delaney, Ms.
Delaney did not take it in in December. And I was quite disappointed with the
the process. I understand things are usually set in stone and things behind
the scenes. We understand that. But, I think you should be a little more more
facilitating. And And when you send correspondence, when I asked, "Did you
receive this?" And you don't. So, I think you what you're doing there's 2
and 1/2 thousand years of taxpayers value here, and they're
good people, and they're concerned. One of the main concerns is your aquifer
here. And if you study any geo and you're going to put buildings in there,
so we're against that. We're going to
continue with that objection. We won't have much say in the matter. So, I think
you should be talking the council should be talking to your rep people that you
represent, and you're going to find with my
your you've done a poor job of communicating. All of a sudden it comes
out there's a new city. Well, here's what I'd like to read. And
so, did you do have our petition, do you?
I'm sure the clerk is who's very confident of her abilities.
If If you haven't, you can file it with us tonight. We'll make sure it's
registered originally. I already sent it, and here's your your return mail.
So, I'm not I don't appreciate to being treated with disrespect in paperwork,
okay? So, we'll move on, and here's what I'd like to read. So,
that is all here, and the planning lady can read all that. So, we're still
sticking to an objection. We don't consider it We consider you can still do
the Ontario hospital with the existing zoning, which you have years to do. And
then, I'll just read some more details. So, I I would
really be nice if you read what we put in our petition. And I think the
communication was broken down, and I don't appreciate not calling back. I
feel ghosted totally. All right. And we have no power. We know that. We're just
a small guy. It's okay. So, here's what I'd like to read if I can quickly get
there and I'll be to almost though. I think there's a lot of industry being
driven right now for for by command not demand. And Chrysler, we put billions in
that plant in Windsor and that's not a no go. So, we don't agree fundamentally
that you put all your eggs in one basket with Volkswagen. So, you that's what
you're saying. That's fine. But to call that useless land is not. It's quite
valuable land. And it's farmed It's been farmed for 50 years. And
I I think I'm concerned that I see all these municipalities developing
developing, but the housing situation at 635 a unit isn't even break even for the
builders. So, we've kind of hurt a lot of people with this whole rental housing
is issue. That's a separate issue. But the a small one bedroom in St. Thomas is
21,000 a year. How many people do you think can afford that? So, we've got
some real structural issues. Uh
now, I think you mischaracterized. That's not on useless land. It's
productive agricultural land. And and I think when I heard Mr.
uh that that that the land uh uh
the this land does not live forever and Mr.
Martin was vocal against that. And of course, there's acquisition. You gave
them 1,500 acres. So, I think one thing you should consider for the norm it will
affect their ground water. It's the best well water you could ever get. It's an
aquifer that runs through the Ontario Hospital. All right. It used to feed the
Ford plant. And I've been drinking it for years and nothing's wrong with me.
» [laughter] >> You got some humor. Attaboy.
So, moving ahead. So, we believe it's still major institutional. It's still
agricultural. It's still open space. And I agree all those natural heritages
great and the river that that runs dry. But we're not ready to accept a new
city. All right. And I'm going to read a couple more things that if I can find
notes properly, here we go.
And so basically we're we're framing it country versus city.
And the way I see the cities being developed and I don't understand it
because it's not affordable. And we go to Talbotville, you got 6,000 square
foot homes on a little lot. So your banking is the bank act is pretty
strong. So moving ahead, we if you remember the Townshend fiasco,
it's about 1,200 acres and it was guaranteed to steel boom. So when you go
to one industries and there's no guarantee Volkswagen is true to their
commitment. All right. So a lot of these corporations get government funding and
the government's happy with the jobs cuz you have 40% of your money back. So this
is it's gone too far. All right. I see too much suffering and
too many people at the bottom. So let's finish with this issue. Sorry I threw
that in there. I was wrong. Transportation safety. Who owns
Southdale? You want to walk down there and then you put that new subdivision,
you haven't put a dime in it and my friends are almost killed with the
traffic. I know it's 60, but there's not a sidewalk, there's not a walkway. And
then when you did the new subdivision, there all the water went to everybody's
basements and they're too afraid to sue for 20 or 40 grand. So now you have
trouble problems with your water issues. So and some people are paying 350 for
water coming in and out. What do you think? Do do do you use your AI to do a
budget? So I think you're going too far. We want the right to object. That's all.
We probably don't have much say past that knowing that changes in the land
tribunal act, but I think there's some other issues of of of
of uh ethics involved. So I feel that's
important to know. I don't think you've done the safe conditions there and and
the effort it took just to change to 70 km shows there's too much stickiness.
There's too much, but it's everywhere. Not just blaming you fellows
or women personally, but I think you should be talking to
your base and I think you should be doing a survey of everybody within a
mile of here. I don't I felt that whole program was one-sided. You couldn't have
an opposites you couldn't have the open mic to say the opposite and nobody said
anything the opposite. Nobody could speak against it. So what's the point?
So I want to put my objection in for this group of people and they've spent
over 2 and 1/2 thousand years of tax paying, so that should be respected. And
that's the main concern for this. And I'm sorry, counselor woman, if I didn't
talk to you about it, okay? Because I've I'm kind of doing other
things. So, the other thing is with this water fiasco of 400 million dollars, I
have no clue on the water on the plant, and all that I know is the people that
live to the east of that plant are going to struggle. Because that's So, there's
going to be a lot of chemicals, a lot of issues. I know you want to main-
maintain, but it seems every time these big projects, they run out of money,
they shut down. And NextStar, which is right here,
put over a billion dollars of Canadian dollar money in it, and they sold their
share for a hundred dollars. And that's not right. So, let's get our
business affairs in order. I know it starts from the top, and we're nobody. I
mean, I I lost the vote, but please listen to
people and don't ghost us like that. That's not polite. Uh So, if they're
really scarce land, you've got 110 acres with apparently Can-Am says they sold it
to a developer. So, why can't we slow it down a bit? Because I don't believe in
this new city. Other people don't. And if you want to do an independent survey
of everything within two miles of it, I asked people in Port Stanley all over,
are you asking your your your constituents, or are you just dictating
from top down? That's how we feel. So, it's not going to bother me what you do,
but I think you should be a little bit more held to task, but it's the way it
is, and I understand that. And I don't I don't appreciate that. With when there's
an economic I understand you you want to have more tax dollars. That's going to
be a half a billion dollars. If if they're successful, great. But if you
would believe in the EV industry, where's everybody driving their EV cars?
All right. So, I've been in US industry and Canadian industry for 20 years, and
I think this country should not be supporting the losers and subsidizing
the ones that are not guaranteed. There's a lot of environment issues
there, too. So, I'm not in in that. That's already said and done. So, if you
said you're going to ameliorate the people's water here, that's fine. I
don't even know if your water supply is going down there. Your developers gave
me 30 years ago a map that they had all planned out. So, you can't change.
So, I think you guys are all being controlled, and I don't think you're
standing up for the individual taxpayer, 100% of it.
And anything I could one of the thing the
our 50 signatures have been ghosted by municipal set. They're not even saying,
"Oh, thank you for your letter." Why? How do you communicate? Why is it
so difficult? And I say, "Did you get it?" No. And then you say something here
and you kind of repeat it, but that wasn't the crux. The crux was we were
objecting and we're sticking to and we objected in
1917 or 2017 and we're objecting today. I know and so I say, "Put it off another
2 months and have more consultation before you start getting all these
quotes in. All right? And that you're going to find a lots here. So, they're
going to say the same thing that they're concerned. And so, you we have
to accept your vision, but I don't agree with your vision, okay?
Sorry, sir. Okay. All right, the button again. I'm all Okay. Thank you, Mr.
Shur. We chatted at the open house. No, no. I'm not cutting you off. I'm
just going to reply to a couple of points. We chatted at the open house.
You're an active, amiable person who very nicely told me last week
your concerns. I listened to them. They're now on the record. So, I do
believe that this is an opportunity for that to come forward. I'm not
knowledgeable enough to speak on the water issues. I think you would agree
that the building of a plant to the north of St. Thomas in former Central
Elgin land wasn't something that this council exactly, how shall I put it,
expected when they ran for this term. So, I'm just I just with with just give
me 60 seconds. You You You make good points, but at the end of the day, this
is the opportunity for you to object. Um I I put you firmly in the object
category. Um and I realize that there's a lot of um
I unease about the development that's going on there, the money that's being
spent. You know, I quoted the other day them
saying that $11 billion in foreign direct investment is coming to St.
Thomas, and that's not just PowerCo, but that's the
graphite place that I can never remember the name of. Find out.
So, think about this for a council perspective with respect to the calls we
already get about traffic, right? So, the development that will come with
that, regardless if it's across the street, north of St. Thomas, east, west,
or you name it, you have to admit that the full full build-out of that
facility, what they call Yarmouth Yards, was nice of them to give us a name, will
change this community, right? And the people at this table, and the people at,
you know, the provincial and federal levels, don't always come knocking on
our door finding out exactly how we'd like to see that happen. So,
I I I And the only other comment that I have is I don't consider it a new city,
I consider it a new community, and I'm not sure if my colleagues agree with me
or the folks that are here, but ultimately, if there's going to be the
growth that's coming, there's going to be, as was stated very clearly, who do
we want people, where do we want them to choose to call
home? Now, if it's Central Elgin, we have to prepare. I will say to you and
to the people that are here this evening, our as a council, our first
concern at the start of this project was that if Central Elgin wasn't left
holding the bag of a of a development that wasn't going to be paid for, and
that somehow the citizens here, or anybody that lives in Central Elgin,
would be negatively affected. And I attest to
you today that that will not happen. And that's not because of happenstance,
that's because of the last 18 months in working on a deal that firmly gives
Central Elgin the ability to recover costs, to work in phases, and at the end
of the day, I I do believe that there are concerns about how quickly things
will happen. We heard at the start that PowerCo would be, uh, you know, three
phases, or three terminals. Now it's two terminals, or one, and we hear different
things. So, I believe that we've done our best to try and respond to something
that came along that we never knew would be here when we started.
Appreciate you always being very kind, and I will give you another shot here,
but you have my number. You can, and I have to turn mine off first, but you're
always You live in Portland, I know exactly, and you're very always very
nice when you see me, and I I I sense your passion frustration, but thank you
for keeping your to that to that level of you're always It's a good idea. I
don't look for you forward to your calls, but I actually, at the end of the
day, uh, I respect you very much.
Respect is usually earned, so I'm not sure, but I would just like to ask one
question. What did you guys anticipate uh, of your property taxes? If you said
5,000 homes times, you know, so 5,000 a year, my math shows it's a half a
billion over 30 years. Isn't that a fairly significant responsibility? So,
do you have that figure just as a question? Have you ever forecasted that
over 30 years? Just So, that's what I'm saying. It's a lot of money for
taxpayers to come up with. I'm sorry.
Appreciate it. Understood. It's difficult to know how the phases will go
forward, but I appreciate your comments, and look forward to chatting with you
again.
I'd ask if there's anyone else who'd like to come forward. The mic is yours.
Mr. Leech, welcome.
Uh, your your worship, members of council, staff, um, I'm Donald Leech,
and I'm the chair of the Municipal Heritage Committee.
Um, we have a number of other committee
members here in attendance, as well. Um, we had the opportunity last week for
our second stakeholder meeting with the consultants, and we thank uh, council
for the opportunity to consult with us, and ask questions, receive answers, and
provide input into the process. As Council may recall,
uh sometime ago, uh myself and Mike Baker from the committee made a
presentation to Council about the history of the building,
um its role in the Second World War as um a training facility as part of the
Commonwealth Air Training Plan where Air Air Force personnel from across the
Commonwealth came to this community to receive training that uh assisted us to
uh win the Second World War. In addition, the uh building was
noteworthy. It was built during the tenure of local MPP and Premier Mitch
Hepburn. So, Mitch Hepburn ensured that uh
a fine structural building was built with the uh best of architects, William
Lyon Somerville, um uh noted English architect that moved to
Canada, Jacobin Jones, and um with materials like Queenston limestone,
terrazzo floors. So, in looking at the uh specific
overlay policies in section 4.7.10.26,
um we were pleased to see that uh there is wording that reflects Council's
commitment to see the uh Westerly buildings that have been
designated on the Ontario Heritage Heritage Act repurposed. Um
that site alteration will conserve significant built heritage resources,
and that uh there'll be encouragement for adaptive reuses of significant built
heritage resources. Uh one thing that we would ask that
Council consider is perhaps expanding the permitted uses in the OPA to also
include some type of housing. Um we see that as by including um
housing as a permitted use, that may assist with the uh repurposing of those
buildings. That it ex- provides expanded range of uses.
Something that may be assisted housing or something along that type of lines
that may be appropriate for those buildings.
Um we'd also ask council to consider it's beyond the official plan amendment
we understand, but um in 2019 there was negotiations between
the municipality and the province about a heritage easement agreement. The
heritage easement agreement intent was that
when the province sold the building to a third party that there would be
additional protection for the building. And um
that agreement was um went through a number of back and forth sessions, but
um would provide additional uh
protection and reaffirm council's commitment to see those buildings
develop because we recognize if you know the
if the building remains in the province ownership the heritage act bylaw doesn't
apply, um the official plan doesn't apply, uh
the province can do what it wishes. Um and I guess the final point I'd raise
is uh we learned through our stakeholder meeting uh about the consultation with
the various First Nations that may have an interest. The committee recognizes
that um you know the heritage of Central Algoma
didn't begin with uh European settlement a few hundred years ago, but goes back
thousands of years. So you know the committee would welcome
the opportunity to um work with any interested First Nations
that are looking at commemoration activities
um you know as the First Nations would deem
it appropriate and in the spirit of reconciliation.
So thank you for the opportunity to to
speak to council. Thank you, Mr. Leach. We appreciate
those comments.
Former Mayor Martin.
Thank you, Mayor and council members. Um I just
I'm very familiar with the building and and and I agree with like Mr. Leech has
made the point that we really would like to have the council here tell the
province we want to see the building maintained and and retained the parts
that were designated um when I was on Mayor at that time.
The the re-purposing of that building is there's so it's so easy to re-purpose.
The um you know, they want to they in the plan there is a section for a
community center possibly. There's a gymnasium, there's cafeterias, there's
um an auditorium, there's chapel, there's libraries. They're all in that
building already and they're right at the back part of the designated part. So
they'd be perfect for a community center already. Um as Mr. Leech said, there are
sections at the ends that could easily be housing. We took Indwell through that
building in 2019. Um and they were just excited. They were
so thrilled. They wanted to jump right in immediately and start doing housing
and uh Um the only stipulation they wanted was
some transportation from there into St. Thomas and and we had to get cooperation
from St. Thomas for that. But um it didn't happen. St. Thomas jumped
on Indwell and got them to do a few things in St. Thomas. And it's great
that they've done that. I'm not criticizing them that they have done
that. I think that's very important. But there could also be luxury apartments in
there and there's tremendous park space in between all these sections of
building and I know there's the hospital. They're looking for possibly a
hospital. There is that field at the south end that could and but you could
still incorporate the offices in the current
The current building is extremely strong and well-built and and it was a real
testament of course to Mitch Hepburn. They said at the time that if the
building if a normal building cost dollars a square foot to build, he this
one cost $10 a square foot cuz he put the most expensive material in there.
And if you go in, you can see the brick walls inside as well as the glass bricks
everywhere to let light go through the building and and of course the Queenston
limestone walls. So, all I'm saying to you tonight is I really would
like you to encourage the province to let us repurpose that building, the
parts that were designated. We did not designate the far back parts.
Only In the Well thought they could do those, too.
They said that was no problem. They've looked at so many
you know, they've they've taken and done um
things in factories, etc. But the the nice thing about repurposing those
things there as well is you don't have the cost tearing it down,
and it would be extremely costly to remove.
And you're making good use of our heritage. And that is as Don said, that
was the air training you know, ground training space for all of the
Commonwealth. That's not just Canada. That's England and and all over. They
came here to be trained from all over the Commonwealth.
And so, that's really makes it a significant building for the for the um
country of Canada as well. So. May I ask a question, Mrs. Martin?
When was this building built? Because I noticed when I when they started doing
the the construction here, it's not a heri- heritage designation. So, when was
the county building here built? This one here um this one here was built right
just shortly after that one. It was the nurses residence. But that one was
completed first and taken over, as you know, during the war before it actually
became a hospital. But once it became a hospital, then the nurses residence is
built. Yeah, I've been very concerned. I will say Mr. Kneckt called me and asked
me what I thought of what they were doing on the outside.
Uh me, too. And I I think we both have concerns, but I was very surprised this
building was not heritage designated. It's because it belongs to the county,
and the county have to be willing. The province asked us to designate that
building. They approached us, did as you've
probably seen the 80-page document that they provided with all the heritage and
structure and everything that they asked us to designate it, and so that's why
when I was mayor, it was designated. And we convinced them not to designate every
part of the buildings to do the front, to just give more
options for the back buildings. May I ask why would they come to you and have
you designate partially the buildings? I I I just like the background cuz I
didn't know that they came to you. Okay. Um they they came I'm Don might be
better cuz he was the certain CAO at the time, but um they came to us because
Infrastructure Ontario, which is what they were called, they wanted that they
wanted originally the whole farm preserved, everything, because it was
the last psychiatric hospital and farm that fed, you know, their patients,
their I mean, when I worked there as a summer student when I was in university,
there were over 2,000 patients in that hospital. And they fed them. They
provided all their meat, their vegetables, everything. And and the
patients all helped with that. They helped farm then my ladies used to go
out and pick vegetables and prepare them for supper. So, I mean
Don, if you want, I can uh maybe Don can speak to exactly why the province, but I
know Infrastructure Ontario did want it preserved. Very strongly felt that way.
I'm afraid um Premier Ford has replaced all the people
on Infrastructure Ontario from that time. Probably deliberately.
Thank you for clarifying.
Ms. Sanders, please come along. Thanks. Nora Sanders, and uh
I'm also part of the Municipal Heritage Committee, but I think I'm here more
just as myself, a resident of Port Stanley, cuz others from the committee
have expressed so well, and I just want to add a little bit cuz I I uh
back in the day, early '80s, I was on the community advisory board for uh the
psych hospital. So, I was familiar with it in that way. I used to represent some
of the people that were uh as clients, some of the people that were uh in
there, but um I'm enough of a conservative to have the
instinct that um when you've already got something, you
think about how to use it rather than replace it.
And I would be hard put to think of a more solid
building in the county of Elgin than what's right across the street
here. Now, Sally's just explained, you know,
Mitch Hepburn and this was his, you know, uh
his balliwick and his uh
you know, great great contribution to our county. Um
We were part of a state couple stakeholder meetings, one just a couple
days ago, and I was at the public meeting last week. Today's the first
time I've heard it mentioned that the development
in stages is going to start from Sunset and end up and move the other direction,
because I had had, I guess, the false impression that decisions weren't made
yet about the buildings. So, that I I I assume that the reason the whole picture
shows all the way back to Fairview was that they'd start from
where there's nothing there, and if we need housing, you know, get going
building it. So, I just say, I've been part of different
consultations. That was the first I'd heard of it. And and I just think
if if housing's the priority, uh those buildings are there, and as Sally
said could be could be luxury places, could be
you know, if they can make Balaclava Street School into a housing which is a
beautiful it's going to be a beautiful thing. There's huge capacity here. Um
and I was privileged and grateful to have a tour there back in October.
Um little bit sad when we were there a few
weeks ago late January to see that Infrastructure Ontario has uh let it go
in that short time. Um I mean the damage to it is in that
time is superficial. You know, paint and ceiling and
uh broken glass and stuff, but but uh the building's been sitting empty a long
time and so I guess I should have said I meant to say first I'm grateful to see
some planning happening to use it or to do something here because it's it's kind
of sad to have that place sitting empty all these years and so on, but I I would
encourage you to think through uh
whether it can't be used and and why on earth it wouldn't be. Uh
I'm pretty sure whatever they build out here
uh houses or or apartment buildings won't be of the quality of what's
already there. Um and
uh you know,
why not? Why not use it in some way? And and you know, when we've had these
stakeholder meetings, we've asked in the one last fall and again this week it was
and now it's more clear, but we said how can you be planning about community
facilities, about park space cuz there's all those courtyard areas there
and all that without taking into account what's already there? And and it wasn't
clear to me why they're not except the excuse was, well, that's up to the
province. So it it it still it needs to be done
together and and with the map we've been shown, the
purple part uh is part of it, but the buildings are
partly on the purple part and partly on the other part and and to show that it's
going to be communities something or other without taking into account
there's a building already there. So, I would just maybe like slow down a little
bit and think about that would be my wish and my hope um if it isn't too
late. The other thing I wanted to talk about
uh it's just my own thinking uh and it's
not about the building so much, but this whole idea of a whole downtown and
stores and so on. And I guess my question on that is is what
uh research has been done as to the impacts on Port Stanley
businesses and yeah, even St. Thomas. Like my hope
has been and I'm I'm proud resident of Central Elgin, but I mean I'm one that
does remember St. Thomas having a downtown that you went to to get shoes
or clothes or whatever. And my hope was with the battery plant that we might see
some revival. And now I see this being planned to kind of cut into that. So, I
guess I just I just raise that question. I'm assuming with all the work that the
researchers, the consultants have done that they've done that kind of analysis,
but I haven't heard it reported on. So, those are the things I want to say. Very
grateful for the chance to speak tonight.
Thanks very much. Just quickly the the first phase will be to the north of the
site. So, for building the 26 to 31. Second, with regards to this community
and there being a quote downtown, um I mean it it if you didn't do some
planning at the start uh Nora, you might get variety stores on some corners. So,
I think you would look at it as the quote downtown, which is just putting
together some, you know, a cluster of commercial
entities would be that it would complement either Port Stanley or St.
Thomas as opposed to compete with. Just my looking at it and and again, I mean,
that that build out of that phase is until I'm I don't know where Mary Lou
is, 20 that's 2031 plus, so we do have some time for some sober second thought
on that, but I appreciate your comments very much.
I'm scanning the crowd.
Please come forward. Thank you.
Hello, I'm Diana Stana. This is my first meeting. Um
I have a unique perspective because I live on John Wise Line, right across
from this proposal. And um it just seems I just sitting here at my first meeting
just aghast at the the planning that's already happening
here and I heard a number that was over 400 um responses that you've gotten so
far. I'd like to hear what those are. Are you going to publish those?
Uh Mary Lou would know that. I think that they um
Where's Mary Lou? Are we How do we Could you just quickly help me on that one cuz
I'm not sure. I know that you compiled them. Do you mind just saying what the
process is, Mary Lou? Thank you. Mary Lou, you can take this microphone right
next to Jack Jeff if you wish.
Uh thank you very much. The um summary from the open house will be prepared by
Lower Consulting. They're working on it now. All of the questions and comments
we get tonight, we're taking notes on and we will prepare a summary of what we
were asked and what the response is. So, we may not have all the answers tonight,
but we're committing to get committed to getting answers to all of the comments
and questions and releasing it. The question though, if I may just help you
out here, It's said on one of the slides that we had 400 responses. I think
that's what you're referring to. So, those 400 responses, is that aggregated?
How does that information come forward? Please, Mary.
Uh thank you. Um and thank you for clarifying. So, the um
the summary from round one is available publicly. Um you can find it on the
February 9th Council agenda. Or if you want to connect with one of us from the
project team, we can get you a copy of it.
Very good. Any further comments or questions? Go ahead.
I I just I don't really hear the support of all these good folks that have come
forward and and spoken thus far. And I I just don't see the positive
going forwardness with this. Like where this comes from.
Um you know, I'm on a farm directly across
from where all this is going to happen. And I just view that as excellent
farmland. And
um just the history uh that Mrs. Martin spoke of um and how it was used, why can
it not go forward and be used in in that in that way.
Um I I just want to go on the record that I'm completely opposed to all of
this.
Thank you. Thanks for attending tonight. You said
it was your first meeting. We appreciate that.
» [snorts] >> Others?
Any of the council colleagues have any questions?
Everyone has been provided a fair opportunity to be heard. Any person
wishing further information on the actions of council regarding the
proposed amendment should contact the municipality. Before I adjourn the
meeting, I will say that the process is all available through Mary Ellen and is
on or Mary Lou rather, we have a Mary Lou and a Mary Ellen,
uh available online. We come back and Mary Lou in this presentation talks
about what the statutory um regulations are and when the meetings will be held.
So, without further ado, I will ask to adjourn this meeting at 6:55. All
those in favor? Opposed. Thank you very much.