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Welcome all. This is a public meeting as
required by the Planning Act to afford

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any person an opportunity to make
representation with respect to a

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proposed official plan amendment for 467
Sunset Drive in the municipality of

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Central Elgin. I welcome all those who
are here in the gallery as well as those

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who are joining us online.
Does any member of council have a

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disclosure of interest concerning the
proposal?

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Seeing none. Miss Leach, what method of
notice and when was the notice given to

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the public for the meeting, please?
Mayor Sloan, as per requirements of the

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Planning Act, notice was mailed by
regular post to every owner of land

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within 120 m of the subject land and
applicable agencies on February 6th,

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2026. An extended circulation also
included all residents of nearby

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subdivisions, including those located
within the city of St. Thomas. Notice

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was physically posted to the property by
municipal staff and also posted to the

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municipal website.
Thank you, Miss Leach. I'd now like to

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introduce Marylou Tanner, the senior
partner of NPG Planning Solutions, to

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explain the proposed official plan
amendment.

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Miss Tanner, welcome back.
Thank you very much, Mayor Sloan and

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members of the community and members of
council and staff. It's my pleasure to

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be here this evening for this public
meeting under the Planning Act.

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And we'll just get the presentation
loaded.

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For those of you who are able to attend
the open house that was held last week

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on Tuesday evening, a lot of the
material you're going to see this

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evening will be similar, but there will
be people both here and online who may

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not have been had that opportunity. So,
we want to give everybody

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a fresh
fresh perspective and overview of the

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proposed official plan amendment. We can
go to the next slide, please.

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So, this is the hospital lands. They're
directly across the street from here. It

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won't be news to anyone, but we just
want to outline what we're dealing with

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in terms of the hospital lands generally
at the northeast corner of Sunset and

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John Wise Line and then carrying over to
Fairview and south of the Miller's Pond

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subdivision. It excludes the OPP station
on John Wise Line as well as the

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Southwest Centre for Forensic Mental
Health Care on Sunset. So, we'll go to

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the next slide, please.
The hospital lands are being divested

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from the province of Ontario as the
hospital has been closed for a number of

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years.
In doing so,

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the lands do not have clear direction in
Central Elgin's official plan on what

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their future would be. And And that's
not surprising given their given their

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long history of hospital and
agricultural use. But with the future

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divestment of the lands, it's time to
develop a plan for the lands' future,

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how they will develop and how they will
connect to the adjoining communities. We

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began this process about 14 months ago
with a visioning guiding principles

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workshop with council that resulted in
the adoption of vision and guiding

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principles by council on May 5th, 2025.
Earlier this month last month in

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February, we developed and brought to
council the draft land use plan and what

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we call the policy directions. Taking
those vision and guiding principles and

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teasing them out into more detail and
preparing the draft of the land use

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plan.
This is a statutory public meeting under

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the Ontario Planning Act and it is
everyone's opportunity to ask questions

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and provide comments, feedback, and
suggestions. We will be taking notes

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this evening and we will be providing a
response to all the questions and

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comments we received tonight. There are
no decisions being made on the proposed

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official plan amendment this evening. We
will return next month with a

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recommended final version of the
official plan amendment and mapping. And

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your feedback tonight and from last week
will be taken into consideration. Should

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also say that there were two stakeholder
workshops late last week and we

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appreciate the people
who were able to join us in those and

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the feedback we received. We'll go to
the next slide, please.

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What's coming up on this slide is a
graphic of where we began and where

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we're headed to. So, as I mentioned, we
had a vision workshop in January 2025.

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There was a significant amount of
technical background work that was

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completed in 2025.
The majority of it was completed by the

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province of Ontario and it included
things like market studies and

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transportation and natural heritage
studies and servicing studies including

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stormwater management. We've taken all
of that information and translated it to

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the policy directions and land use plan
that we worked on and released in

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February of this year. And we are now in
the process of engagement on the

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official plan amendment which includes
both maps and draft policies. Next

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slide, please.
Last fall we conducted

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extensive public engagement on what we
call round one and that occurred in

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November 2025 on the land use plan and
proposed policy directions. There was

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one public open house, one online
survey, four stakeholder meetings and we

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used a variety of tools to make sure
that people were aware

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of
of the project of what was going on

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including many of the notifications that
the clerk provided this evening. Total

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of 453 resident participants provided
input to us.

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Next slide, please.
So, from the round one engagement, we

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heard
and this has been a

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pretty consistent throughout the
project, the importance of housing and

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housing affordability and providing
housing for people who are choosing to

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call Central Elgin home and also
ensuring that

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as the VW battery plant opens and
related businesses that there's housing

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opportunities for those workers in
Central Elgin.

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We heard about the importance of parks
and making sure that parks were

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accessible and affordable for people to
access and protecting natural heritage

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features.
We heard a great deal about

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transportation and mobility including
the importance of walkable and bikeable

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streets making sure that both cars and
pedestrians and and as well cyclists

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have safe road network to use and
ensuring that we are looking to the

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future should transit come into this
community.

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For community facilities and services,
it is really important that people have

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a place to shop, that people have a
place to go get a coffee, a bank to go

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to, that there's community facilities
such as a school and a community center

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for residents to be able to access
within this neighborhood.

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And finally we heard the importance of
heritage and identity and recognizing

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the site's legacy and looking at options
for the existing heritage buildings as

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well.
We'll go to the next slide, please.

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The draft official plan amendment for
consideration includes the detailed set

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of policies with guidance and
policy requirements on things such as

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housing and parks and servicing,
community facilities, the downtown Main

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Street area that I'll touch on in a
little bit and more. There are series of

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maps that I will walk you through this
evening as well as an appendix that

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shows how the lands will build out and
some preliminary thinking on what that

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timing looks like for those lands.
As I mentioned, we did have a public

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open house on February 24th, which was
last Tuesday and we had um

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at last count I heard 117 people attend,
which we're very grateful for all of

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people who joined us and were able to
provide their input. And the input we

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received that night will be responded to
as we move forward. We're here tonight

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for the statutory public meeting and we
are working through all of this

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engagement to gather feedback and learn
more about changes and issues and

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opportunities members of the community
have.

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We are required to circulate to agencies
in this province when we do something

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like this, so that has
taken place. We are awaiting agency

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feedback. That is agencies like the
school boards, like the conservation

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authority, like of the county of Elgin
and we'll look forward to hearing from

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them as well.
We will be finalizing everything after

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the public consultation and agency
consultation is concluded and there will

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be responses as I mentioned and uh
in my experience through processes like

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these, there are always updates and
edits and changes that occur after we

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hear from people. So, we'll go to the
next slide, please.

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So, I want to start with the land use
plan and just to orient everyone, north

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is up to the top. The street on the left
is Sunset, across the bottom is John

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Wise and then turning at the end of the
colored map north on Fairview. So, let

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me start over at Sunset.
We have provided at the corner of John

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Wise and Sunset an institutional block
of land. This will be for facilities

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such as health care, nursing homes,
residential care facilities, government

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offices and things like that. The
province of Ontario has we retain a

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minimum of 42 acres of institutional
use, which is

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what they are going to retain for their
purposes to be determined in the future

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and this area achieves that plus a
little bit left over for something such

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as nursing home or a retirement home.
As we look just north of that pinky

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purple block, there is a road
connection. It comes in opposite Karen

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Street to line the streets up and be
able to provide good

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transportation access and that will
carry eastward but will not go directly

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through to Fairview.
The orange areas that you see just off

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of Sunset are medium density housing.
That would be three to six stories. It

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would be things like townhouses, stacked
townhouses and low-rise apartment

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buildings.
You'll see some green areas coming off

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of Sunset as well. Those are natural
heritage areas.

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There is a creek and a conservation
authority regulated area around that

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creek as well as
what we call an ephemeral creek. So it's

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there sometimes, it's there not there
all the time. It's dry but it has been

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identified in the natural heritage
study. It will require more work to

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understand how it is going to be
retained and protected and if it's going

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to be retained and protected because it
doesn't flow year-round.

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The very bright green area just east of
Sunset is a stormwater management pond

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which is required for stormwater
drainage.

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As we start to look to the interior, you
can see that the orange areas are medium

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density housing. That is that three to
six story housing

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and the yellow is low density housing
which is up to three three-ish stories

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and it would be single semis, some row
houses and

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would provide the ability for a lower
density form of housing.

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One thing to note in those yellow areas
which are connected and adjoining

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Miller's Pond as well as in the
southeast, there are some areas that are

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hatched. They will have access via a
rear lane because they front on a

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collector road and we just want to make
sure everybody has safe driveway

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movement. So those will be rear lane low
density homes.

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Within the middle, you can see that
there's some red areas. We heard very

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clearly from the market study that there
is a need for additional commercial

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space in this community
and through discussions in the council

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vision and workshop, it was determined
that the appropriate form would be what

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we call a downtown main street. So,
commercial uses on the ground floor and

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apartments above.
You'll also see

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an area that has in red that is outlined
and has a dotted outline and that is a

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location for a future grocery store.
The very bright blue color will be

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future community services, things like a
community center and schools.

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We have a couple of higher density areas
in the future pink that is on John Wise

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line and those would be high density
apartments. They would be up to eight

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stories in height, but no higher than
that.

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There are a number of parks throughout
the community of various sizes. This is

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to provide different opportunities for
different users. The smaller park would

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be children's play equipment and and
seating areas. The larger

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ones would be
for sports facilities such as soccer

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fields and baseball diamonds and things
like that.

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And within the downtown main street
area, we also have a small green area

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that will be
future public plaza in that area.

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And then as we moved just a little bit
further east, you can see that

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there are two blue areas. Those have
been identified as having indigenous

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archaeological interest, so they will
not be developed and they will be

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maintained as they are now. There are a
couple of other areas that also have a

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similar
archaeological issue. One is a park and

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one is the high density area. Those are
European um

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interests and they will be dealt with
through future archaeological work.

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And finally, just up in the very
northeast area, there is a provincially

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significant wetland surrounded by that
blue

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archaeological area and that wetland
will not be developed. It will be

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protected. And finally, there is a storm
water pond adjacent to

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Fairview Street.
We can go to the next slide, please.

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Just want to touch on this. We have set
building heights in the schedule. It

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just makes it easier for people to see
visually. The lighter the color, the

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lower the height. The darker the color,
the higher the height. Everything is

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either three or four stories, three to
six stories, maximum of eight, which is

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the darkest blue.
And that is appropriate for the size of

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community and this nature of community.
We'll go to the next slide, please.

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This is the road network schedule. It is
very similar, exactly the same actually,

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to what you saw on the land use plan. We
have included in it

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where the roads are going to be and how
the community is going to connect. These

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roads will be very similar to what you
see in other typical subdivisions,

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whether in St. Thomas or in Central
Elgin.

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Just ensuring that there's safe movement
of roads, but not creating the

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opportunity for cut-through traffic and
speeding. If you want to cut through

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this future neighborhood,
it's going to take you some time, and

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that is purposeful.
We'll go to the next slide, please.

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So, this is the public realm and active
transportation plan. And it's important

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that we understand that streets will
have sidewalks on both sides. We will

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have bicycling lanes and facilities for
cyclists, but we will also have trail

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system, which is shown in green. You can
see some of the connections, especially

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in the northwest area. We just want to
make sure that as we're building this

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community, that people have the ability
to walk through it, to walk to where

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they want to go, and and don't
necessarily need to choose a vehicle.

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You can see
John Wise and on Sunset, there's circles

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at some of the intersections. Those will
be gateways. They may be roundabouts,

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but they'll be something that defines
that you're coming into this community.

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Sometimes it's public art or banners.
There's a lot of different wonderful

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opportunities for that. Next slide,
please.

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This is the preliminary phasing plan and
it is um one that we are

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continuing to look at. It is very much
tied to how much servicing capacity will

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be coming in white years. The
development is proposed to start at

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sunset and move eastward in phase one,
which will be to approximately 2031.

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Phase two will be 2031 to 2041. Sort of
that middle piece with the downtown Main

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Street. Downtowns need people living
around and they need just customers

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close by to be successful. And then the
third phase will be the balance um south

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of the downtown Main Street and eastward
over to Fairview. We don't have timing

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for the institutional block uh from the
province, so we've left the phasing as

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to be determined.
I'd like to now turn to some of the key

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policy highlights from the official plan
amendment that would be found in the

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text of the official plan amendment. As
I mentioned at the beginning, housing

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and housing affordability was a key
priority for council. It's uh something

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that we've continued to hear about about
the availability and affordability of

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housing. So, we've put in place a series
of policies that um provide

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opportunities for housing and housing
across what we call the continuum of

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housing. So, whether it's people who
need assisted housing right through to

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um ownership. It includes rental and
does provide the ability for people of

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all ages and incomes to uh obtain
housing in this community. We focus the

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residential areas around parks and
making sure that all residential areas

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are within a 15-minute walk of a park.
We've put in place uh policies for

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buildings greater than three stories to
ensure compatibility with adjoining land

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uses, particularly where there is
development adjoining that use. We've

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put in place requirements uh for
additional residential units to be

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included in the construction of the low
density residential housing to create

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the opportunity for more units within
the neighborhoods. And finally, although

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it's a policy, a housing impact
statement is important to help Central

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Elgin track goals towards achieving the
housing numbers for this plan. We'll go

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to the next slide, please.
The downtown Main Street was that red

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area that I showed you on the land use
plan and it is a community focal

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focal point. You can see some similar
images from other similar sized

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00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:52,080
communities of what this would look
like. As I said, means main floor

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commercial with residential above it. It
could have office above it. The building

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heights will be two to six stories. We
find that that's a good relationship to

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the street and walkability and creating
a really wonderful environment for the

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businesses and the people who are
visiting those businesses. Parking will

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be located behind the buildings or
underground, but I will caution that

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underground parking is very expensive to
build and it may just not be able to be

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achieved. Big box retail and large
retail plazas will not be permitted and

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as I mentioned earlier, we are planning
for a grocery store. Next slide, please.

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I spoke earlier about the institutional
area on Sunset and part of the reason

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for that is there's a number of
institutional uses along Sunset. I mean

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this building is is part of it, but you
can also see on the opposite side and

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it's important to create that continuity
particularly as it's

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a very busy traveled road and you want
to keep the the traffic to those

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institutional uses on that, but also
provide a really really well designed

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building and quality landscaping. So
those policies are in there.

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In this section of the plan as well as
addressing the heritage conservation and

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adaptive reuse of the existing
buildings.

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For cultural heritage and archaeology,
as I mentioned, there

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there are some areas that have been
identified with First Nations interest

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as well as European settler
artifacts and those will both be dealt

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with appropriately. For the First
Nations, it will be

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in partnership and working with those
nations on what needs to happen in those

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areas, and there will be a commemoration
and an interpretation plan with the

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00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:30,920
rights-holding First Nations
prepared. We'll go to the next slide,

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please.

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For the round two public engagement, as
I mentioned, we started it earlier this

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year on February 9th, we brought a
series of reports to council releasing

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all the
things that we've been talking about,

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policy directions, and the draft
official plan amendment. We had the open

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house, as I mentioned last week, as well
as the two stakeholder meetings, and we

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are here this evening for this public
meeting. You can continue to engage by

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00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:02,480
sending us your comments in writing. We
welcome them, and we will be providing a

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00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:06,760
response to them. So, this is not your
only opportunity to share your thoughts

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with us.
Um let's turn to the next slide, please.

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So, our next steps.
Last week was the open house. Tonight,

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we are here for the public meeting. The
final official plan amendment is

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targeted for next month.
While this is going on, we continue to

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engage with council, agencies, First
Nations, as well as the community. We

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are committed to
listening and responding thoughtfully to

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00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:37,920
all the feedback that we receive, and we
certainly welcome people to provide

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00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,840
their comments, as well as their
suggestions, because they are most

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00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,640
welcome, and they will help us
uh

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00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:49,160
incorporate into the plan the
community's feedback and

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00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:52,200
assist with responding to concerns
individuals may have.

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That concludes my presentation. Thank
you.

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00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,960
Thank you very much, Mary Lou.
I will ask the clerk next. Ms. Leach,

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have you received any written
submissions on the proposal, please?

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00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,840
Mayor Sloan, correspondence has been
received from the following: from Shane

295
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,200
and Breanna Reitsma with 12 listed
questions regarding the impacts of the

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00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,920
proposed development, the proposed
downtown portion of the new community,

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00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:18,320
studies and data.
From Bernie Shuet with concerns

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00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,840
regarding increased traffic and safety
issues, water quality and environmental

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00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:26,920
impact, loss of wildlife habitat and
diversity, cultural and indigenous

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00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,840
significance.
Incompatibility with sustainable and

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00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,680
responsible development and impacts to
taxpayers.

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00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,400
From Southwestern Public Health
outlining services and regulatory

303
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:41,720
oversight considerations that may apply
to the future development. And from Ted

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00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:45,240
Hallwa regarding use of the existing
former hospital buildings.

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00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,280
Thank you, Ms. Leach.
I appreciate that.

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00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:03,480
That's okay. Um, I'm going to ask now,
we have a a pretty

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00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:07,840
um, robust group in the uh, gallery. Um,
I'm going to open the floor now for

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00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,920
questions. So, Mary Lou, if you just uh,
I'm not sure if uh, anyone here would

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00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,360
like to come forward.
As Mary Lou says, this is the

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00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,560
opportunity for your feedback to be
heard on the record.

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00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,840
We are being televised and we have the
ability now to hear some suggestions,

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00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,960
comments, and feedback.
And all I would ask when you come to the

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00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:28,400
microphone is press the button so that
the folks online can hear it. And uh,

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00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:32,600
give us your name. So, would anyone like
to come forward, please?

315
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,600
Welcome, sir.

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00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:41,160
I think we should base it on seniority
and since I'm in the eighth decade, I

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00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,240
think I think I'm the oldest here,
maybe.

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00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,280
Just state your name for the record,
please.

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00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,760
» My name is Bernie Shuet and I'm
associated with the Norma subdivision

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00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:53,880
here.
And we have some major concerns and we

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00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:59,520
had put in originally in '017
a objection and you and your response

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00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:02,840
was no development on the lands.
So, and I'll get into some of the

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00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,600
details in a moment, and I'll try not to
take forever.

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00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,920
And uh, we don't consider that as
surplus or useless land. We consider

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00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:14,240
that agriculture, and we would like to
keep it as agriculture. So, I had

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00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:20,480
trouble getting my our objection in with
40 to 50 people signed. And Delaney, Ms.

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00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:24,520
Delaney did not take it in in December.
And I was quite disappointed with the

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00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:28,560
the process. I understand things are
usually set in stone and things behind

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00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,560
the scenes. We understand that. But, I
think you should be a little more more

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00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:37,400
facilitating. And And when you send
correspondence, when I asked, "Did you

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00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:40,760
receive this?" And you don't. So, I
think you what you're doing there's 2

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00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,320
and 1/2 thousand years
of taxpayers value here, and they're

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00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:49,240
good people, and they're concerned. One
of the main concerns is your aquifer

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00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,840
here. And if you study any geo and
you're going to put buildings in there,

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00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,680
so
we're against that. We're going to

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00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,200
continue with that objection. We won't
have much say in the matter. So, I think

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00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,040
you should be talking the council should
be talking to your rep people that you

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00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,160
represent, and you're going to find with
my

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00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,000
your you've done a poor job of
communicating. All of a sudden it comes

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00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:11,280
out there's a new city.
Well, here's what I'd like to read. And

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00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,600
so, did you do have our petition, do
you?

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00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,240
I'm sure the clerk is who's very
confident of her abilities.

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00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,120
If If you haven't, you can file it with
us tonight. We'll make sure it's

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00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:25,640
registered originally. I already sent
it, and here's your your return mail.

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00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:29,880
So, I'm not I don't appreciate to being
treated with disrespect in paperwork,

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00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:34,640
okay? So, we'll move on, and here's what
I'd like to read. So,

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00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:38,120
that is all here, and the planning lady
can read all that. So, we're still

348
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:42,840
sticking to an objection. We don't
consider it We consider you can still do

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00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:46,920
the Ontario hospital with the existing
zoning, which you have years to do. And

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00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:52,240
then, I'll just read some more details.
So, I I would

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00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:56,120
really be nice if you read what we put
in our petition. And I think the

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00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:01,040
communication was broken down, and I
don't appreciate not calling back. I

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00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:05,040
feel ghosted totally. All right. And we
have no power. We know that. We're just

354
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:10,040
a small guy. It's okay. So, here's what
I'd like to read if I can quickly get

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00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:14,160
there and I'll be to almost though.
I think there's a lot of industry being

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00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:18,480
driven right now for for by command not
demand. And Chrysler, we put billions in

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00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:23,520
that plant in Windsor and that's not a
no go. So, we don't agree fundamentally

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00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:27,240
that you put all your eggs in one basket
with Volkswagen. So, you that's what

359
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:31,440
you're saying. That's fine. But to call
that useless land is not. It's quite

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00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:36,160
valuable land. And it's farmed It's been
farmed for 50 years. And

361
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:40,280
I I think I'm concerned that I see all
these municipalities developing

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00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:45,400
developing, but the housing situation at
635 a unit isn't even break even for the

363
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:49,960
builders. So, we've kind of hurt a lot
of people with this whole rental housing

364
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:54,200
is issue. That's a separate issue. But
the a small one bedroom in St. Thomas is

365
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,360
21,000 a year. How many people do you
think can afford that? So, we've got

366
00:25:56,360 --> 00:26:01,000
some real structural issues.
Uh

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00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,880
now, I think you mischaracterized.
That's not on useless land. It's

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00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,720
productive agricultural land. And and I
think when I heard Mr.

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00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,560
uh
that that that the land uh uh

370
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,760
the
this land does not live forever and Mr.

371
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:19,600
Martin was vocal against that. And of
course, there's acquisition. You gave

372
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,280
them 1,500 acres. So, I think one thing
you should consider for the norm it will

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00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,600
affect their ground water. It's the best
well water you could ever get. It's an

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00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,400
aquifer that runs through the Ontario
Hospital. All right. It used to feed the

375
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,240
Ford plant. And I've been drinking it
for years and nothing's wrong with me.

376
00:26:32,978 --> 00:26:37,760
» [laughter]
>> You got some humor. Attaboy.

377
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:41,240
So, moving ahead. So, we believe it's
still major institutional. It's still

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00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:45,280
agricultural. It's still open space. And
I agree all those natural heritages

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00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:49,200
great and the river that that runs dry.
But we're not ready to accept a new

380
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:55,080
city. All right. And I'm going to read a
couple more things that if I can find

381
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,080
notes properly, here we go.

382
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,600
And so basically we're we're framing it
country versus city.

383
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,240
And the way I see the cities being
developed and I don't understand it

384
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,680
because it's not affordable. And we go
to Talbotville, you got 6,000 square

385
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,680
foot homes on a little lot. So your
banking is the bank act is pretty

386
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:15,320
strong. So moving ahead,
we if you remember the Townshend fiasco,

387
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,880
it's about 1,200 acres and it was
guaranteed to steel boom. So when you go

388
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:22,760
to one industries and there's no
guarantee Volkswagen is true to their

389
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:26,680
commitment. All right. So a lot of these
corporations get government funding and

390
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,800
the government's happy with the jobs cuz
you have 40% of your money back. So this

391
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,640
is it's gone too far.
All right. I see too much suffering and

392
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,680
too many people at the bottom. So let's
finish with this issue. Sorry I threw

393
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:40,400
that in there. I was wrong.
Transportation safety. Who owns

394
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,360
Southdale? You want to walk down there
and then you put that new subdivision,

395
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,640
you haven't put a dime in it and my
friends are almost killed with the

396
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:50,520
traffic. I know it's 60, but there's not
a sidewalk, there's not a walkway. And

397
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,760
then when you did the new subdivision,
there all the water went to everybody's

398
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:58,080
basements and they're too afraid to sue
for 20 or 40 grand. So now you have

399
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:01,400
trouble problems with your water issues.
So and some people are paying 350 for

400
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,280
water coming in and out. What do you
think? Do do do you use your AI to do a

401
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:09,040
budget? So I think you're going too far.
We want the right to object. That's all.

402
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:13,320
We probably don't have much say past
that knowing that changes in the land

403
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:16,880
tribunal act, but I think there's some
other issues of of of

404
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,920
of uh
ethics involved. So I feel that's

405
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,640
important to know. I don't think you've
done the safe conditions there and and

406
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:28,160
the effort it took just to change to 70
km shows there's too much stickiness.

407
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,720
There's too much, but it's everywhere.
Not just blaming you fellows

408
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,440
or women personally,
but I think you should be talking to

409
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,880
your base and I think you should be
doing a survey of everybody within a

410
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,720
mile of here. I don't I felt that whole
program was one-sided. You couldn't have

411
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,760
an opposites you couldn't have the open
mic to say the opposite and nobody said

412
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,360
anything the opposite. Nobody could
speak against it. So what's the point?

413
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,520
So I want to put my objection in for
this group of people and they've spent

414
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:56,440
over 2 and 1/2 thousand years of tax
paying, so that should be respected. And

415
00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,120
that's the main concern for this. And
I'm sorry, counselor woman, if I didn't

416
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,120
talk to you about it, okay?
Because I've I'm kind of doing other

417
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:08,840
things. So, the other thing is with this
water fiasco of 400 million dollars, I

418
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,680
have no clue on the water on the plant,
and all that I know is the people that

419
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,360
live to the east of that plant are going
to struggle. Because that's So, there's

420
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,240
going to be a lot of chemicals, a lot of
issues. I know you want to main-

421
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,600
maintain, but it seems every time these
big projects, they run out of money,

422
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:28,280
they shut down.
And NextStar, which is right here,

423
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,480
put over a billion dollars of Canadian
dollar money in it, and they sold their

424
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,840
share for a hundred dollars.
And that's not right. So, let's get our

425
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:38,600
business affairs in order. I know it
starts from the top, and we're nobody. I

426
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,880
mean, I
I lost the vote, but please listen to

427
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,440
people and don't ghost us like that.
That's not polite. Uh So, if they're

428
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:50,000
really scarce land, you've got 110 acres
with apparently Can-Am says they sold it

429
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,920
to a developer. So, why can't we slow it
down a bit? Because I don't believe in

430
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,880
this new city. Other people don't. And
if you want to do an independent survey

431
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,760
of everything within two miles of it, I
asked people in Port Stanley all over,

432
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:05,760
are you asking your your your
constituents, or are you just dictating

433
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,720
from top down? That's how we feel. So,
it's not going to bother me what you do,

434
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,960
but I think you should be a little bit
more held to task, but it's the way it

435
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:18,640
is, and I understand that. And I don't I
don't appreciate that. With when there's

436
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,440
an economic I understand you you want to
have more tax dollars. That's going to

437
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:26,560
be a half a billion dollars. If if
they're successful, great. But if you

438
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,480
would believe in the EV industry,
where's everybody driving their EV cars?

439
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,840
All right. So, I've been in US industry
and Canadian industry for 20 years, and

440
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,640
I think this country should not be
supporting the losers and subsidizing

441
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,600
the ones that are not guaranteed.
There's a lot of environment issues

442
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,040
there, too. So, I'm not in in that.
That's already said and done. So, if you

443
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,320
said you're going to ameliorate the
people's water here, that's fine. I

444
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,240
don't even know if your water supply is
going down there. Your developers gave

445
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,440
me 30 years ago a map that they had all
planned out. So, you can't change.

446
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,600
So, I think you guys are all being
controlled, and I don't think you're

447
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,080
standing up for the
individual taxpayer, 100% of it.

448
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:07,040
And
anything I could one of the thing the

449
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,040
our 50 signatures have been ghosted by
municipal set. They're not even saying,

450
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,160
"Oh, thank you for your letter."
Why? How do you communicate? Why is it

451
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,880
so difficult? And I say, "Did you get
it?" No. And then you say something here

452
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,160
and you kind of repeat it, but that
wasn't the crux. The crux was we were

453
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:25,560
objecting and we're sticking to and we
objected in

454
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:30,680
1917 or 2017 and we're objecting today.
I know and so I say, "Put it off another

455
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,560
2 months and have more consultation
before you start getting all these

456
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:38,200
quotes in. All right? And that you're
going to find a lots here. So, they're

457
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:42,360
going to say the same thing that
they're concerned. And so, you we have

458
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:46,600
to accept your vision, but I don't agree
with your vision, okay?

459
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:52,000
Sorry, sir. Okay. All right, the button
again. I'm all Okay. Thank you, Mr.

460
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,600
Shur. We chatted at the open house.
No, no. I'm not cutting you off. I'm

461
00:31:53,280 --> 00:32:00,080
just going to reply to a couple of
points. We chatted at the open house.

462
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:04,600
You're an active, amiable
person who very nicely told me last week

463
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,480
your concerns. I listened to them.
They're now on the record. So, I do

464
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,400
believe that this is an opportunity for
that to come forward. I'm not

465
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,720
knowledgeable enough to speak on the
water issues. I think you would agree

466
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:18,040
that the building of a plant to the
north of St. Thomas in former Central

467
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:23,800
Elgin land wasn't something that this
council exactly, how shall I put it,

468
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:28,840
expected when they ran for this term.
So, I'm just I just with with just give

469
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:33,760
me 60 seconds. You You You make good
points, but at the end of the day, this

470
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:37,400
is the opportunity for you to object. Um
I I put you firmly in the object

471
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:41,720
category. Um
and I realize that there's a lot of um

472
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,320
I unease about the development that's
going on there, the money that's being

473
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,200
spent.
You know, I quoted the other day them

474
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,320
saying that $11 billion in foreign
direct investment is coming to St.

475
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,720
Thomas, and that's not just PowerCo, but
that's the

476
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,760
graphite place that I can never remember
the name of. Find out.

477
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:02,720
So, think about this for a council
perspective with respect to the calls we

478
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:05,440
already get about traffic, right? So,
the development that will come with

479
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:10,080
that, regardless if it's across the
street, north of St. Thomas, east, west,

480
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:14,600
or you name it, you have to admit that
the full full build-out of that

481
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:19,840
facility, what they call Yarmouth Yards,
was nice of them to give us a name, will

482
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:23,400
change this community, right? And the
people at this table, and the people at,

483
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,880
you know, the provincial and federal
levels, don't always come knocking on

484
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:31,280
our door finding out exactly how we'd
like to see that happen. So,

485
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,600
I I I And the only other comment that I
have is I don't consider it a new city,

486
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,720
I consider it a new community, and I'm
not sure if my colleagues agree with me

487
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,680
or the folks that are here, but
ultimately, if there's going to be the

488
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:47,200
growth that's coming, there's going to
be, as was stated very clearly, who do

489
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:51,240
we want people,
where do we want them to choose to call

490
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:54,640
home? Now, if it's Central Elgin, we
have to prepare. I will say to you and

491
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,720
to the people that are here this
evening, our as a council, our first

492
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,400
concern at the start of this project was
that if Central Elgin wasn't left

493
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,400
holding the bag of a of a development
that wasn't going to be paid for, and

494
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,520
that somehow the citizens here, or
anybody that lives in Central Elgin,

495
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,159
would
be negatively affected. And I attest to

496
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:15,639
you today that that will not happen.
And that's not because of happenstance,

497
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:20,240
that's because of the last 18 months in
working on a deal that firmly gives

498
00:34:18,399 --> 00:34:26,080
Central Elgin the ability to recover
costs, to work in phases, and at the end

499
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:29,080
of the day, I I do believe that there
are concerns about how quickly things

500
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,159
will happen. We heard at the start that
PowerCo would be, uh, you know, three

501
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:37,720
phases, or three terminals. Now it's two
terminals, or one, and we hear different

502
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:41,800
things. So, I believe that we've done
our best to try and respond to something

503
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:45,679
that came along that we never knew would
be here when we started.

504
00:34:43,879 --> 00:34:49,919
Appreciate you always being very kind,
and I will give you another shot here,

505
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,840
but you have my number. You can, and I
have to turn mine off first, but you're

506
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:57,080
always You live in Portland, I know
exactly, and you're very always very

507
00:34:55,399 --> 00:35:01,400
nice when you see me, and I I I sense
your passion frustration, but thank you

508
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,760
for keeping your to that to that level
of you're always It's a good idea. I

509
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:10,800
don't look for you forward to your
calls, but I actually, at the end of the

510
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,800
day, uh, I respect you very much.

511
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:17,320
Respect is usually earned, so I'm not
sure, but I would just like to ask one

512
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:21,360
question. What did you guys anticipate
uh, of your property taxes? If you said

513
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,960
5,000 homes times, you know, so 5,000 a
year, my math shows it's a half a

514
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,000
billion over 30 years. Isn't that a
fairly significant responsibility? So,

515
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:33,000
do you have that figure just as a
question? Have you ever forecasted that

516
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:37,120
over 30 years? Just So, that's what I'm
saying. It's a lot of money for

517
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:40,280
taxpayers to come up with.
I'm sorry.

518
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,760
Appreciate it. Understood. It's
difficult to know how the phases will go

519
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,280
forward, but I appreciate your comments,
and look forward to chatting with you

520
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,280
again.

521
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,360
I'd ask if there's anyone else who'd
like to come forward. The mic is yours.

522
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,520
Mr. Leech, welcome.

523
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,880
Uh, your your worship, members of
council, staff, um, I'm Donald Leech,

524
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,160
and I'm the chair of the Municipal
Heritage Committee.

525
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,440
Um,
we have a number of other committee

526
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:18,520
members here in attendance, as well.
Um, we had the opportunity last week for

527
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:23,040
our second stakeholder meeting with the
consultants, and we thank uh, council

528
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:29,160
for the opportunity to consult with us,
and ask questions, receive answers, and

529
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:33,560
provide input into the process.
As Council may recall,

530
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,680
uh sometime ago, uh myself and Mike
Baker from the committee made a

531
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,840
presentation to Council about the
history of the building,

532
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:46,400
um its role in the Second World War as
um a training facility as part of the

533
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:51,360
Commonwealth Air Training Plan where Air
Air Force personnel from across the

534
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:56,760
Commonwealth came to this community to
receive training that uh assisted us to

535
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,840
uh win the Second World War.
In addition, the uh building was

536
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:06,000
noteworthy. It was built during the
tenure of local MPP and Premier Mitch

537
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:08,840
Hepburn. So, Mitch Hepburn ensured that
uh

538
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:14,440
a fine structural building was built
with the uh best of architects, William

539
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:19,600
Lyon Somerville, um uh
noted English architect that moved to

540
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:23,800
Canada, Jacobin Jones, and um with
materials like Queenston limestone,

541
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:27,840
terrazzo floors.
So, in looking at the uh specific

542
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:31,600
overlay policies
in section 4.7.10.26,

543
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:39,920
um we were pleased to see that uh there
is wording that reflects Council's

544
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:43,440
commitment to see the
uh Westerly buildings that have been

545
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:48,440
designated on the Ontario Heritage
Heritage Act repurposed. Um

546
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:52,960
that site alteration will conserve
significant built heritage resources,

547
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:58,560
and that uh there'll be encouragement
for adaptive reuses of significant built

548
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:03,800
heritage resources.
Uh one thing that we would ask that

549
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:10,000
Council consider is perhaps expanding
the permitted uses in the OPA to also

550
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:17,160
include some type of housing.
Um we see that as by including um

551
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:22,920
housing as a permitted use, that may
assist with the uh repurposing of those

552
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:26,120
buildings. That it ex- provides expanded
range of uses.

553
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,880
Something that may be assisted housing
or something along that type of lines

554
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:35,640
that may be appropriate for those
buildings.

555
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:39,240
Um we'd also ask council to consider
it's beyond the official plan amendment

556
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:44,640
we understand, but um
in 2019 there was negotiations between

557
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,960
the municipality and the province about
a heritage easement agreement. The

558
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,640
heritage easement agreement intent was
that

559
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:55,240
when the province sold the building to a
third party that there would be

560
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,840
additional protection for the building.
And um

561
00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:02,600
that agreement was um went through a
number of back and forth sessions, but

562
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,360
um
would provide additional uh

563
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,920
protection and reaffirm council's
commitment to see those buildings

564
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,120
develop because we recognize if you know
the

565
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,120
if the building remains in the province
ownership the heritage act bylaw doesn't

566
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:22,280
apply,
um the official plan doesn't apply, uh

567
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:27,600
the province can do what it wishes.
Um and I guess the final point I'd raise

568
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:32,360
is uh we learned through our stakeholder
meeting uh about the consultation with

569
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:36,160
the various First Nations that may have
an interest. The committee recognizes

570
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:40,080
that um
you know the heritage of Central Algoma

571
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:43,480
didn't begin with uh European settlement
a few hundred years ago, but goes back

572
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,600
thousands of years.
So you know the committee would welcome

573
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:50,760
the opportunity to um
work with any interested First Nations

574
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,040
that are looking at commemoration
activities

575
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,360
um
you know as the First Nations would deem

576
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,880
it appropriate and in the spirit of
reconciliation.

577
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,880
So
thank you for the opportunity to to

578
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:07,760
speak to council.
Thank you, Mr. Leach. We appreciate

579
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,760
those comments.

580
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Former Mayor Martin.

581
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,560
Thank you, Mayor and council members. Um
I just

582
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,760
I'm very familiar with the building and
and and I agree with like Mr. Leech has

583
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:31,400
made the point that we really would like
to have the council here tell the

584
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:35,120
province we want to see the building
maintained and and retained the parts

585
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:42,240
that were designated
um when I was on Mayor at that time.

586
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:46,880
The the re-purposing of that building is
there's so it's so easy to re-purpose.

587
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,960
The um you know, they want to they in
the plan there is a section for a

588
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:56,240
community center possibly. There's a
gymnasium, there's cafeterias, there's

589
00:40:54,240 --> 00:41:00,040
um an auditorium, there's chapel,
there's libraries. They're all in that

590
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:04,680
building already and they're right at
the back part of the designated part. So

591
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:09,960
they'd be perfect for a community center
already. Um as Mr. Leech said, there are

592
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:15,640
sections at the ends that could easily
be housing. We took Indwell through that

593
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:19,600
building in 2019.
Um and they were just excited. They were

594
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,000
so thrilled. They wanted to jump right
in immediately and start doing housing

595
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:29,520
and uh
Um the only stipulation they wanted was

596
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:34,280
some transportation from there into St.
Thomas and and we had to get cooperation

597
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:38,640
from St. Thomas for that. But
um it didn't happen. St. Thomas jumped

598
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,520
on Indwell and got them to do a few
things in St. Thomas. And it's great

599
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,520
that they've done that. I'm not
criticizing them that they have done

600
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:50,320
that. I think that's very important. But
there could also be luxury apartments in

601
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:54,960
there and there's tremendous park space
in between all these sections of

602
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:59,760
building and I know there's the
hospital. They're looking for possibly a

603
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:03,960
hospital. There is that field at the
south end that could and but you could

604
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,840
still incorporate the offices in the
current

605
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:12,040
The current building is extremely strong
and well-built and and it was a real

606
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:15,320
testament of course to Mitch Hepburn.
They said at the time that if the

607
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:19,880
building if a normal building cost
dollars a square foot to build, he this

608
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:24,040
one cost $10 a square foot cuz he put
the most expensive material in there.

609
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,840
And if you go in, you can see the brick
walls inside as well as the glass bricks

610
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:33,160
everywhere to let light go through the
building and and of course the Queenston

611
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:36,840
limestone walls. So, all I'm
saying to you tonight is I really would

612
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,840
like you to encourage the province to
let us repurpose that building, the

613
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:44,680
parts that were designated. We did not
designate the far back parts.

614
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,320
Only In the Well thought they could do
those, too.

615
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:51,560
They said that was no problem. They've
looked at so many

616
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:55,360
you know, they've they've taken and done
um

617
00:42:52,280 --> 00:43:00,840
things in factories, etc. But the the
nice thing about repurposing those

618
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:05,080
things there as well is
you don't have the cost tearing it down,

619
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:08,320
and it would be extremely costly to
remove.

620
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:13,960
And you're making good use of our
heritage. And that is as Don said, that

621
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:18,680
was the air training you know, ground
training space for all of the

622
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:22,880
Commonwealth. That's not just Canada.
That's England and and all over. They

623
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:26,880
came here to be trained from all over
the Commonwealth.

624
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:32,280
And so, that's really makes it a
significant building for the for the um

625
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,800
country of Canada as well.
So. May I ask a question, Mrs. Martin?

626
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,840
When was this building built? Because I
noticed when I when they started doing

627
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,320
the the construction here, it's not a
heri- heritage designation. So, when was

628
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:47,520
the county building here built? This one
here um this one here was built right

629
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,720
just shortly after that one. It was the
nurses residence. But that one was

630
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:56,520
completed first and taken over, as you
know, during the war before it actually

631
00:43:54,160 --> 00:44:00,600
became a hospital. But once it became a
hospital, then the nurses residence is

632
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,400
built. Yeah, I've been very concerned. I
will say Mr. Kneckt called me and asked

633
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,880
me what I thought of what they were
doing on the outside.

634
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:10,360
Uh me, too. And I I think we both have
concerns, but I was very surprised this

635
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,920
building was not heritage designated.
It's because it belongs to the county,

636
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:18,800
and the county have to be willing.
The province asked us to designate that

637
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:22,480
building.
They approached us, did as you've

638
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:27,120
probably seen the 80-page document that
they provided with all the heritage and

639
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:31,800
structure and everything that they asked
us to designate it, and so that's why

640
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:36,240
when I was mayor, it was designated. And
we convinced them not to designate every

641
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,880
part of the buildings
to do the front, to just give more

642
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,040
options for the back buildings. May I
ask why would they come to you and have

643
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:47,200
you designate partially the buildings? I
I I just like the background cuz I

644
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:52,640
didn't know that they came to you.
Okay. Um they they came I'm Don might be

645
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:57,080
better cuz he was the certain CAO at the
time, but um they came to us because

646
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:01,200
Infrastructure Ontario, which is what
they were called, they wanted that they

647
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:06,480
wanted originally the whole farm
preserved, everything, because it was

648
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:10,280
the last psychiatric hospital and farm
that fed, you know, their patients,

649
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,680
their I mean, when I worked there as a
summer student when I was in university,

650
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,240
there were over 2,000 patients in that
hospital. And they fed them. They

651
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,280
provided all their meat, their
vegetables, everything. And and the

652
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:25,040
patients all helped with that. They
helped farm then my ladies used to go

653
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:30,120
out and pick vegetables and prepare them
for supper. So, I mean

654
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,280
Don, if you want, I can uh maybe Don can
speak to exactly why the province, but I

655
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:39,640
know Infrastructure Ontario did want it
preserved. Very strongly felt that way.

656
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,080
I'm afraid um
Premier Ford has replaced all the people

657
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:48,760
on Infrastructure Ontario from that
time. Probably deliberately.

658
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,760
Thank you for clarifying.

659
00:45:53,640 --> 00:46:01,800
Ms. Sanders, please come along.
Thanks. Nora Sanders, and uh

660
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:05,840
I'm also part of the Municipal Heritage
Committee, but I think I'm here more

661
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:10,760
just as myself, a resident of Port
Stanley, cuz others from the committee

662
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:16,400
have expressed so well, and I just want
to add a little bit cuz I I uh

663
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:20,760
back in the day, early '80s, I was on
the community advisory board for uh the

664
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:25,440
psych hospital. So, I was familiar with
it in that way. I used to represent some

665
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:31,120
of the people that were uh as clients,
some of the people that were uh in

666
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:36,000
there, but um
I'm enough of a conservative to have the

667
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:40,040
instinct that um
when you've already got something, you

668
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:44,800
think about how to use it
rather than replace it.

669
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:49,880
And I would
be hard put to think of a more solid

670
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,360
building in the county of Elgin
than what's right across the street

671
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,760
here.
Now, Sally's just explained, you know,

672
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,440
Mitch Hepburn and this was his, you
know, uh

673
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,440
his balliwick
and his uh

674
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:08,560
you know, great great contribution to
our county. Um

675
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,920
We were part of a state couple
stakeholder meetings, one just a couple

676
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,800
days ago, and I was at the public
meeting last week. Today's the first

677
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:21,000
time I've heard it mentioned that the
development

678
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:26,280
in stages is going to start from Sunset
and end up and move the other direction,

679
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:31,360
because I had had, I guess, the false
impression that decisions weren't made

680
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:36,360
yet about the buildings. So, that I I I
assume that the reason the whole picture

681
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:40,720
shows all the way back to Fairview was
that they'd start from

682
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:44,400
where there's nothing there, and
if we need housing, you know, get going

683
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:48,320
building it. So,
I just say, I've been part of different

684
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:55,240
consultations. That was the first I'd
heard of it. And and I just think

685
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:59,000
if if housing's the priority, uh
those buildings are there, and as Sally

686
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:03,640
said could be
could be luxury places, could be

687
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:07,600
you know, if they can make Balaclava
Street School into a housing which is a

688
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:13,720
beautiful it's going to be a beautiful
thing. There's huge capacity here. Um

689
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:17,560
and I was privileged and grateful to
have a tour there back in October.

690
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:22,800
Um
little bit sad when we were there a few

691
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:28,800
weeks ago late January to see that
Infrastructure Ontario has uh let it go

692
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:34,280
in that short time.
Um I mean the damage to it is in that

693
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:39,600
time is superficial. You know, paint and
ceiling and

694
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:44,000
uh broken glass and stuff, but but uh
the building's been sitting empty a long

695
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:48,560
time and so I guess I should have said I
meant to say first I'm grateful to see

696
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:53,480
some planning happening to use it or to
do something here because it's it's kind

697
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:59,480
of sad to have that place sitting empty
all these years and so on, but I I would

698
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:03,280
encourage you to think through
uh

699
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:07,760
whether it can't be used and and why on
earth it wouldn't be. Uh

700
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:12,200
I'm pretty sure whatever they build out
here

701
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:15,720
uh houses or or apartment buildings
won't be of the quality of what's

702
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,480
already there.
Um and

703
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:23,520
uh
you know,

704
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:28,160
why not? Why not use it in some way? And
and you know, when we've had these

705
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:34,040
stakeholder meetings, we've asked in the
one last fall and again this week it was

706
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:38,560
and now it's more clear, but we said
how can you be planning about community

707
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:43,320
facilities, about park space cuz there's
all those courtyard areas there

708
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:48,280
and all that without taking into account
what's already there? And and it wasn't

709
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,120
clear to me why they're not except the
excuse was, well, that's up to the

710
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:56,520
province.
So it it it still it needs to be done

711
00:49:53,960 --> 00:50:00,840
together and and
with the map we've been shown, the

712
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:05,360
purple part uh
is part of it, but the buildings are

713
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:10,320
partly on the purple part and partly on
the other part and and to show that it's

714
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:14,200
going to be communities something or
other without taking into account

715
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:18,560
there's a building already there. So, I
would just maybe like slow down a little

716
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,880
bit and think about that would be my
wish and my hope um if it isn't too

717
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,040
late.
The other thing I wanted to talk about

718
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:31,200
uh
it's just my own thinking uh and it's

719
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:35,840
not about the building so much, but
this whole idea of a whole downtown and

720
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:41,160
stores and so on. And I guess my
question on that is is what

721
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:44,840
uh research has been done
as to the impacts on Port Stanley

722
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:50,640
businesses
and yeah, even St. Thomas. Like my hope

723
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:55,640
has been and I'm I'm proud resident of
Central Elgin, but I mean I'm one that

724
00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:00,600
does remember St. Thomas having a
downtown that you went to to get shoes

725
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:05,520
or clothes or whatever. And my hope was
with the battery plant that we might see

726
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:10,720
some revival. And now I see this being
planned to kind of cut into that. So, I

727
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:15,080
guess I just I just raise that question.
I'm assuming with all the work that the

728
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:19,400
researchers, the consultants have done
that they've done that kind of analysis,

729
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:22,480
but I haven't heard it reported on. So,
those are the things I want to say. Very

730
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:26,440
grateful for the chance to speak
tonight.

731
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:32,080
Thanks very much. Just quickly the the
first phase will be to the north of the

732
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:36,920
site. So, for building the 26 to 31.
Second, with regards to this community

733
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:41,080
and there being a quote downtown,
um I mean it it if you didn't do some

734
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:45,840
planning at the start uh Nora, you might
get variety stores on some corners. So,

735
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:50,600
I think you would look at it as the
quote downtown, which is just putting

736
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:53,600
together some, you know, a cluster of
commercial

737
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:57,880
entities would be that it would
complement either Port Stanley or St.

738
00:51:55,720 --> 00:52:01,560
Thomas as opposed to compete with. Just
my looking at it and and again, I mean,

739
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:06,200
that that build out of that phase is
until I'm I don't know where Mary Lou

740
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:09,680
is, 20 that's 2031 plus, so we do have
some time for some sober second thought

741
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,240
on that, but I appreciate your comments
very much.

742
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,160
I'm scanning the crowd.

743
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,960
Please come forward. Thank you.

744
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:31,120
Hello, I'm Diana Stana. This is my first
meeting. Um

745
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:36,400
I have a unique perspective because I
live on John Wise Line, right across

746
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:41,000
from this proposal. And um it just seems
I just sitting here at my first meeting

747
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:46,040
just aghast at the
the planning that's already happening

748
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:52,240
here and I heard a number that was over
400 um responses that you've gotten so

749
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:57,440
far. I'd like to hear what those are.
Are you going to publish those?

750
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:01,320
Uh Mary Lou would know that. I think
that they um

751
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:04,360
Where's Mary Lou? Are we How do we Could
you just quickly help me on that one cuz

752
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:08,360
I'm not sure. I know that you compiled
them. Do you mind just saying what the

753
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:13,200
process is, Mary Lou? Thank you. Mary
Lou, you can take this microphone right

754
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,200
next to Jack Jeff if you wish.

755
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:24,280
Uh thank you very much. The um summary
from the open house will be prepared by

756
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:27,880
Lower Consulting. They're working on it
now. All of the questions and comments

757
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:32,920
we get tonight, we're taking notes on
and we will prepare a summary of what we

758
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:36,120
were asked and what the response is. So,
we may not have all the answers tonight,

759
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:39,760
but we're committing to get committed to
getting answers to all of the comments

760
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:43,560
and questions and releasing it. The
question though, if I may just help you

761
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:47,200
out here, It's said on one of the slides
that we had 400 responses. I think

762
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,480
that's what you're referring to. So,
those 400 responses, is that aggregated?

763
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:55,200
How does that information come forward?
Please, Mary.

764
00:53:53,360 --> 00:54:00,600
Uh thank you. Um and thank you for
clarifying. So, the um

765
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:06,800
the summary from round one is available
publicly. Um you can find it on the

766
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:10,080
February 9th Council agenda. Or if you
want to connect with one of us from the

767
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,120
project team, we can get you a copy of
it.

768
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:20,480
Very good. Any further comments or
questions? Go ahead.

769
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:26,200
I I just I don't really hear the support
of all these good folks that have come

770
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:31,680
forward and and spoken thus far. And I I
just don't see the positive

771
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:35,400
going forwardness
with this. Like where this comes from.

772
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:40,360
Um
you know, I'm on a farm directly across

773
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,920
from where all this is going to happen.
And I just view that as excellent

774
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:49,040
farmland.
And

775
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:55,640
um just the history uh that Mrs. Martin
spoke of um and how it was used, why can

776
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:59,200
it not go forward and be used in in that
in that way.

777
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:03,640
Um I I just want to go on the record
that I'm completely opposed to all of

778
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:03,640
this.

779
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:08,800
Thank you.
Thanks for attending tonight. You said

780
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,080
it was your first meeting. We appreciate
that.

781
00:55:10,408 --> 00:55:13,640
» [snorts]
>> Others?

782
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,040
Any of the council colleagues have any
questions?

783
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,720
Everyone has been provided a fair
opportunity to be heard. Any person

784
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,880
wishing further information on the
actions of council regarding the

785
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:44,440
proposed amendment should contact the
municipality. Before I adjourn the

786
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,520
meeting, I will say that the process is
all available through Mary Ellen and is

787
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,080
on or Mary Lou rather, we have a Mary
Lou and a Mary Ellen,

788
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:55,840
uh available online. We come back and
Mary Lou in this presentation talks

789
00:55:52,760 --> 00:56:00,640
about what the statutory um regulations
are and when the meetings will be held.

790
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:07,400
So, without further ado, I will
ask to adjourn this meeting at 6:55. All

791
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:10,960
those in favor?
Opposed. Thank you very much.