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Good evening everybody. Can everybody
hear me? Okay. No.

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Oh. How about this one?
No. Where's

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Chris? Yeah. Abby, we have no mics.
They're not working.

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We are having technical
difficulties now. Most of us have good

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loud voices, but maybe you just have you
have to kind of speak into this.

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No.
Okay. We're we're going to be uh putting

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this on YouTube if we can get it to
work.

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Our techie fellow just left and Abigail
was back up for one other meeting.

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So if technology can fail, it's always
at the worst time.

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Do you want us to test it?

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Okay, so we're going to call the meeting
to order and thank you for your

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patience. I want to welcome all of you
here tonight. This is a topic that we've

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talked about for quite some time.
Tonight we have the professionals with

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us who will be able to answer some
questions that most of us couldn't

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answer and that is Brad who works for a
new terra. So uh think about what you

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want to ask and we will have a question
and answer period sort of towards the

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end I would imagine. So with us Joe and
Sonia are going to take the lead and uh

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I'm just going to sit back and take some
notes. So welcome and please

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participate. Great. Thank you Madame
Mayor. Uh good evening everybody. Um

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thank you for all for taking the time to
join us for this session both here in

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person and we do have people joining us
online via Zoom. Uh we had promised it

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on YouTube. YouTube will come tomorrow.
It seems like we're going to record it

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and have to post it because technology
is great when it works. So uh the

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purpose of this session is to provide an
opportunity. Well, I just about to do

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that. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So uh my
name is Sonia Bolton. I'm the manager of

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community planning for the county of
Frontac and our team provides planning

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services to the township of central
Frontac today. So joining us um as as

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Fran mentioned we have Brad Gaffne from
New Terra. Thank you Brad for making uh

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the trip up here. Uh Joe Gallivan uh
with the county of Frontac and Alex

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Petra is also with the county. And then
we have Abby McKinnon joining us from

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the township as well. And also in
attendance tonight. I'm going to try and

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not miss anybody. We have uh several
counselors uh from the township of

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Central Front. We have Danny Meeks, uh,
Susan Irwin, Duncan McGregor, Philip

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Smith, and Nikki Gaudy. Did I miss
anybody? No. Okay, great. Wonderful. Um,

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so as I said, the purpose of this
session is to provide an opportunity to

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learn more about uh, communal services
and to basically start a conversation in

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the community about how the township
could be using this technology moving

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forward. Um, some of you have probably
heard of communal services mentioned in

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conjunction with the former school site.
Um, so but tonight and and future

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conversations, this is about more than
just the school site. It's about the

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township as a whole. Uh, so I've got a
couple of housekeeping items to review.

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Um, but first I wanted to share the land
acknowledgement that the township has

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that we are gathering tonight. Uh and we
begin by acknowledging that the land on

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which we are gathering is the
traditional and unseated territory of

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the Algangquin nation. Uh so I just
wanted to note as well if you want to

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receive notices uh about any future
meetings or reports about this uh

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subject to please sign the sign-in
sheets that are by the door there

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because we can be sending updates to you
if you want to stay in touch about that.

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uh we are being joined online uh via the
Zoom platform and uh so for those of us

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or that are joining online they can only
hear us when the mics are being used. So

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what that means unfortunately when we
get to sort of the question and answer

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session if you do have a question we'll
have to ask you to come up we've got

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another microphone set up there uh for
you to use or I can repeat your question

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if if that's easier for you than than
coming up front. Um I think that's

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almost it. Yeah, just just a friendly
reminder to mute your phones and

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devices. Please feel free to step out if
you have to take a call. Uh for those

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people who are joining us online um
through Zoom, you can use the raise hand

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feature on Zoom or if you're on your
phone, you can dial star9 uh to raise

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your hand. Um any questions about the
process for tonight? The our intent is

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to provide you with a presentation that
might run about 45 minutes or so. Um and

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we'll have time at the end for
discussions and questions. Um if there's

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any burning questions along the way,
please feel free to ask, but it might

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run a little bit more um as sort of
seamless for the folks online if we can

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wait uh uh till the end. Okay, so with
that, Abby, do you mind sharing the

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presentation? Great. Thank you. And I am
just going to test that my remote

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changer works. All right. Something
technological that's working well

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tonight. Yay. Okay. So, uh just a bit of
an outline about what we're going to

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talk about tonight. First of all, we're
going to start off by talking what what

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are communal services because many
people have not heard about them. Um

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I'll talk a little bit about why the
county of of Front has um chosen to

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pursue this review about communal
services and its use uh going forward

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and about how it's led to the creation
of a public utility uh known now as

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Fraac Municipal Services. I'll then I'll
turn it over to Brad who is actually

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here to talk about the technology itself
and how it works. And then our last few

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slides are going to circle back and
we're going to talk about um how we use

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this from a land use planning
perspective and a community building

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perspective and the kinds of things that
central front needs to think about um

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about how it could use this technology
in the

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future. So to start off uh in terms of
what uh communal services are. So

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communal services are basically they're
shared drinking water and sewage systems

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that provide water and wastewater
treatment to a cluster of residences or

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businesses. They're also sometimes
referred to as decentralized services.

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They operate on the same basic
principles as your traditional uh or

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conventional municipal treatment plants.
Um but they're not connected to a large

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single facility. So instead they're sort
of they're called right-size facilities

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that treat water and waste water close
to where it is needed or

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created. They so it communal services
can be less expensive than centralized

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municipal services and it reduces the
cost of needing to pipe water or waste

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water over long distances. They are also
more environmentally friendly than your

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traditional uh private on-site services
such as an individual septic

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system. So why pursue it? So this quote
here comes from the county of Frontac's

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official plan and that is that the lack
of municipal services in our villages

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challenges the future community
viability of of those villages.

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So in our
villages we don't have any traditional

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municipal water or sewer services save
one exception the village of Sydnum does

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have piped water and that came about
because of an order from the Ministry of

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Environment about 25 years ago but
that's the only sort of piped service

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that we have anywhere currently in
Frontac. our historic settlement areas.

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So our villages and our hamlets, we have
building lots in like here in Charbet

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Lake that are very small and but the
modern standard today for a new house

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and a well and a septic system is to
have it on a lot that is at least 2

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acres in size. So that's8 of a hectare.
Um our villages and our hamlets are also

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where a lot of our commercial
assessment, all of our businesses are

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located. um and a lot of our community
services such as our schools, our

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medical centers, and to do traditional
municipal services would be a

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significant public infrastructure
investment that that honestly it's just

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it's too too much for for our townships
to be able to afford those traditional

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services.

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So the county over the course of the
last nine years has been looking into

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the issue of communal services and
reviewing the technology, the policies,

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the regulations and the governance
models that can be used in order to see

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whether we can leverage this as
something that we use as a tool to help

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build and sustain our communities.

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So, some of the advantages, communal
services allows you to be able to

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develop on smaller lots, which is a
better fit when you're looking at infill

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or redevelopment or new development
within v uh villages and hamlets. It

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helps to strengthen the local economy by
supporting businesses as well as other

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community infrastructure like our
schools. um by by keeping things a bit

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more dense and you end up with more sort
of compact walkable communities and it

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also opens the door for different types
of housing. Right now when you develop

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on private services generally what gets
developed are single detached dwellings

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which is fine but when that's the only
choice you have people lose out on the

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option of having other options for
housing such as town homes, small

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apartments and so communal services
particularly in villages and hamlets can

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make that possible.

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in terms of the environmental advantages
and and Brad will speak to this in more

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detail, but from what we have found that
there are better environmental and

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public health protections in place with
communal services than there are with

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private on-site services. So, there's
fewer malfunctions, longer life to the

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system, and with regular maintenance,
you're looking at things like measuring

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the performance, monitoring impacts,
fixing problems early.

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So, this might be a little difficult to
see. I'm going to describe it in a bit

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more detail, but on the left is a
diagram of a subdivision uh that is near

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Inverary. Um it is approved and I don't
know if it's mostly built, but it's at

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least partially built. And it's a
traditional estate lot development with

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16 single detached dwellings on lots
that are approximately 1 and a half

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acres in size. they had to do some extra
studies to prove that they could build

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and have septic systems on on less than
two acres. And the green rectangles that

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you see in that left picture, those are
the septic uh beds, not the houses. Um

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so when the county was working with the
consultant, we hired um that communal

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services study that I mentioned, we we
worked with a consulting group called

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WSP and we said to them, if you took
this development as it is, what could

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you build if you built everything on
communal services instead of individual

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septic systems? And what they came up
with is on the right hand side. So with

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that it would be there'd be a mixeduse
development with a uh commercial block.

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So the commercial block is right near
the main street. It's in sort of the

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purpley pink color. There are 41 uh
singles uh single detach. Those are the

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light brown. Uh nine town homes. Those
are in orange along the back. And then a

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12 unit apartment building in red in the
lower left corner. So a significant

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total number of 62 units as opposed to
the 16 that were there before which is

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what is possible u just through using
communal services and the top right hand

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corner on the right hand side that is
where the communal septic field and and

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septic system would be located for that
entire development. So that's just an

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example that we use based on a real life
uh site and development in terms of how

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could we redevelop it on communal

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services. So essentially in terms of how
it all works there's really I think

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three three main pieces. One the first
one is governance and operations. So how

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is this all working? Who is watching
over it? Who is looking after everything

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and taking care of everything? There's
the technology itself which which brad

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will speak to and then there's the land
use planning. How do you want to use it

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in your community? Where do you want to
use it? What kind what do you want to

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get out of it? What types of housing do
you want to get out of? So these are

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sort of the three main pieces that we're
going to touch on in the remainder of

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the presentation.
So the first one in terms of governance

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structure um that there was a second
part to the study that the county worked

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on with the with WSP and that was
looking at what is the best way to

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oversee how how this could be done in
our

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community. And what they ended up with
in terms of their top recommendation uh

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was the use of a municipal service
corporation. And the reason for that is

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this, as Brad will explain, the
technology for this has been around a

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long time. It just hasn't been used very
often in Ontario yet. Um because what

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happens is once a private developer
comes and wants to build with communal

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services, particularly when it involves
permanent residential homes, the

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province requires what is called a
municipal responsibility agreement or an

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MRA. So they're required when the
development is going to be privately

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owned and operated. And they're
basically a legal agreement between the

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municipality and the developer or the
site owner. And the site owner could be

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one person, it could be a condo
corporation of of people. And basically

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what it is, it provides oversight at the
municipal level for how everything is

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going to operate. It basically means if
the developer walks away or the system

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fails, the municipality will step in and
they will take care of everything. Most

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municipalities don't want to do this
because they can't afford to do it. So

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what they do is they say to the
developer, okay, we will do this. We

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will sign this agreement, but if your
system costs a million dollars, then we

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want a million dollars in securities to
keep in the bank because that's the only

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way we can step in and help if we have
to. And the developer says, "Well, you

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just doubled the cost of my development
and I can't afford to do this anywhere

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or anymore." So thank you and they walk
away. So with the municipal service

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corporation which is the route that that
frontac county decided to go through. Um

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it is essentially a corporation in and
of itself. So if if you're familiar with

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the city of Kingston at all, the city of
Kingston has utilities Kingston. So the

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the council of the city of Kingston is
the board of directors for utilities

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Kingston, but they are two separate
legal entities under the law. So by

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using a municipal service corporation,
you get to be able to have these types

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of services which helps align with
long-term growth for the community so

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that you can grow within your villages
and have other housing options. It

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allows for consistency all across the
region. So it's not like one township in

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FRA neck is doing something that the
others can't do. Um it separates

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finances. So the the budget for the
townships is different from the budgets

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for for the utility corporation. It
allows for profits and profit sharing.

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Now the corporation's only two years
old, not even at this point. So there's

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there's not a lot of profits right away,
but the idea is that eventually profits

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will be generated. the shareholders who
are the townships will then be able to

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receive those monies and be able to
reinvest those for the benefit of their

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communities. Um it can limit political
influence by having it be a separate

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body. Um and the services in the
corporation remain 100% publicly owned

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by the participating
municipalities. So what we have I

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apologize I'm changing two different
slides here and I'm not keeping up. My

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apologies everybody.

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Okay. So, the regional public utility
that was formed uh a municipal service

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corporation by the name of Frontac
Municipal Services um is now what is in

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place uh across Fontineac and they have
in the last little while they've hired

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an operator. So, it is a company called
Clearford who have experience all across

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Ontario and other areas of the country
as well in terms of operating and

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managing these systems. So I'm going to
remember to turn my slides this time. So

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in terms of where we are now with
Frontac Municipal Services, all four

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townships and the county have joined
this public municipal utility. It was

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officially incorporated by the province
in November 2023. Uh it has a board of

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directors and it also has a technical
working group that are working on best

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practices to get the utility up and
running. Uh the county uh of FRNAC

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amended its official plan which is an
official plan is like a community's

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blueprint for how you're going to grow
and develop over time. Um it was amended

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to recognize communal services and now
it's the turn for the townships to look

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at amending their official plans to
recognize communal services and that's

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what this conversation is about is about
starting those discussions about how you

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want to use that technology and where in
in your community going on going

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forward. So now I think I'm going to
turn it over to Brad. Yeah. Yeah. Just

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Yeah. Just the right arrow.
Hello everyone. Can you hear me? Okay.

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Great. Um thank you for having me. It's
an honor. Uh Joe and Sonia and it's

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friend. Thank you for having me in. It's
been um uh I've been with Nutra. Uh

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we're a water treatment company.
Actually, we're an environmental company

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first, but we're focused on water
treatment. Uh so I'm an engineer there.

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I've been there for about 21 years. Um
building water treatment equipment. So,

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um, I was inspired a little bit when I
first started in Terra with the fact

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that water is, uh, been around for quite
a few years, about 4.5 billion. Um,

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there's not new water. We only have
what's here as far as fresh water goes.

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So, keeping it clean is is a very uh,
you know, important part of of what we

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need to do for future generations. Um,
and Nutra has uh over the years grown

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through different verticals of of
treating water, whether it's

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contaminated groundwater from a gas
station that spilled oil or gas into the

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water um aquifer, and we pull it out and
we separate the oil and water and clean

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it um to to all the way to sewage
treatment um reusable water for certain

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applications of of food and beverage um
industrial applications. But today um

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I'm going to talk a bit about sewage
treatment and the technology um MBR. So

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it uh stands for something called
membrane bioreactor. So as an engineer I

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can just see if people start to glaze
over. I'll try to minimize the the

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boringness of it and um move quickly
through it. So but if there are further

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questions after I'll stick around and
happy to talk about

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those. There we go. So we're not far
away. uh Brockville, Ontario. We have

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about 140,000 square foot manufacturing
facility um where we have about 100

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folks there that work um engineering and
manufacturing water treatment systems.

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Um as I said, different types. Um most
of our sewage treatment systems are

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built there right in this factory. We
have four other factories in North

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America. Um so we've grown over the
years. started in '92 and right here in

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Brockville, right at that location and
uh we've expanded quite a bit over the

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years uh globally. Um we do quite a bit
of work in Ontario um and as well

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throughout
Canada. Um in the group uh in the

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Brockful Group, we have a number of
engineers, multiple disciplines, and we

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have a whole bunch of um civil
mechanical plumbers um electricians that

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are building this equipment.

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Uh we've been doing this for a while. Uh
and as you can imagine over years

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companies acquire other companies in
water which we've done. Um we've

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accumulated a lot of installations a
little over 10,000 or 20,000 actually

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installations globally. Um and we have
about over 100 installations uh in

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Canada with sewage treatment the one I'm
going to talk about today and double

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that in the US.
So the challenge or the problem um in

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Ontario specifically uh is we've had a
surge in population uh we have all kinds

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of uh water infrastructure that's
designed around centralized water

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treatment. And what that means is you
have one water wastewater plant as Sonia

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alluded to. We have a in Kingston
there's a wastewater plant and there's

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pipes that go out and they collect all
the waste water and they bring it back

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to that plant and then it treats it and
discharges it to um the Lake Ontario. Um

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so that's what we call a centralized uh
infrastructure and our province is set

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up for that. Unfortunately, uh we're
growing at a fast rate. Um and it's very

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expensive to expand and grow centralized
infrastructure, which is why

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decentralized, as Sonia was saying, is
or or communal, another way to say it,

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is is another tool in our toolbox for
Ontario to help us um maintain growth

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and and build out the province.
And the nice thing about being able to

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have decentralized in Ontario, we have
lots of beautiful places to live. And it

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would be really nice to be able to live
in a community like this and be able to

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grow and have affordable homes uh for
for our future

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generations. Uh I mentioned we have a
lot of installations. So these are our

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our sewage and um drinking some are
drinking water system. Most of them are

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sewage. Um so we have uh over 40 um
ECAs. It's an acronym that I'll I'll

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touch on real quickly, but it's called
it stands for environmental compliance

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agreement, and that's uh regulated by
the province. So, basically, it's a

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permit um to have one of these plants
put on a site where you can treat the

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water and create a very uh clean
reusable effluent that goes back into

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the environment. Um, and there's lots of
rules and regulations around that and

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how those those uh those are permits are
given out and uh how you can achieve to

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get one. Um, these systems can be owned
by a community, by a municipal

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corporation, by a private developer, a
condo corp. Um, so it it does vary on

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ownership. There's lots of options

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there. Getting where the mouse is. Oh,
is it

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00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:22,200
there? Who do I where do I shoot for
this? It's There's a box right under the

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screen.
Laser frozen.

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and force it

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forward. There we
go. I throw this picture in just to give

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you a little idea of of flow. So, it's
important to understand what we're

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talking about when we're talking about
communal systems. So, these are not mega

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plants. These are not hundred million
dollar wastewater treatment plants that

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00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:53,760
are going to service the city of
Kingston or or or Broville. Um the what

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this technology has been around for
decades. Um actually the technology I'm

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00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:03,360
going to talk about today has invented
in 1960. Um became mainstream in

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00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:08,320
municipal um municipal waste water uh
throughout the '90s. And what Nutra

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decided is that there's a there's a need
for um this technology in in smaller

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communities, smaller flows. So we cover
um a range of flow of anywhere from as

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small as 10 homes up to 10,000 homes. So
that's sort of the range of technology,

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the range of flow that we work within.
So we've taken an existing technology

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that's been proven that's been is in
operation today globally. Um it's

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accepted by regulators globally and I'll
get into the reasons why. Um and and

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basically we've just scaled it down and
put it in a smaller footprint and being

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made these to be built in a factory so
that we can ship them out and modularly

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put them together so that they can scale
up with the developments as communities

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grow over time. Instead of going in and
building $100 million plant, you can put

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00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,720
in a small section of a plant and then
add sections as years go by to grow that

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as the community grows and houses are
getting built.

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Working out
So this is a picture of a 500 home um

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MBR um wastewater treatment plant and
it's located in um London near London,

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Ontario. So there's a town called a
township called South Hole Township and

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uh there's a brand new development of
500 ohms. Um, this system is sits down

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in a valley and uh it's it's got a
footprint of about 40 feet by 60 feet um

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with plus the it's got the little
generator off to the side and then

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there's a there's a creek but you can't
see it off to the right of the screen

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and that creek works its way do it works
it way to Dodge Creek and then it goes

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out to Lake
Erie. So what happens is the 500 homes

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have a traditional collection system.
You flush the toilet, it goes through a

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drain and it comes into the system into
a tank. And from there, we take that

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that waste water, that sewage, and we
treat it and we turn it to reusable

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clean water that literally looks like
that. And we discharge it back into the

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environment into the waterways. And it's
actually cleaner than the

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waterways. The advantages of these
package systems being built, as I said,

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is that they're scalable. It goes
together in a few weeks because it's

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built in a factory and they are very
cost- effective when you compare them to

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septic and well not well because this is
sewage but septic systems. Um now you

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might ask what makes these systems
robust? What you know what what's going

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00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:38,399
to what's going to happen if if if
something breaks or it uh you know the

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discharge sewage to my precious
waterways. Well, that is something

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that's not acceptable. and and the way
that that is insured is is is multiple

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levels. So um at the very top we have
the min the province we have the

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00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:56,879
ministry of environment so the the MECP
um so that's the ministry of

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00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,520
conservation and parks and they um issue
something called environmental

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compliance approvals for these
facilities. Every single facility in

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Ontario has its own environmental
compliance approval and one can't be

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installed without getting that permit.
It takes over a year to get the permit.

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And what the permit does, it dictates um
what the water is going to be, what what

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flow rates of water. So, how many homes?
What's you know, are we talking 10

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homes? Are we talking 500 homes? Um what
do what are you using? What technology

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are using to treat the water? Because
there's I'm talking about one technology

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and I'm actually talking about the best
available technology on the market. Not

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not because it's newer. Of course, it
is, but it's it's it's a MBR is not

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newer's technology. This is a a generic
technology. It's been around for decades

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as I said, but we've adopted it and
we've we've put it in a smaller form

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factor. But if you ask any regulator
globally, I don't care if you go to the

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US to California, if you come to Ontario
or if you go to Singapore, they will

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tell you MBR is the best available
technology for treating sewage. Period.

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And the reason it's the best is its
effluent quality. Sorry, I wasn't

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supposed to say that word. It's the
output of our system. And as an

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00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,760
engineer, I always say uh um technical
words that they don't mean, but

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basically the output being the water
that we're treating as clean water that

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we're putting back in the environment
and and that's what the e the ECA

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determines of what that quality of water
has to be, where it's going to go, um

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whether it has a generator, lots of
details that are in that even goes to

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the level of how it's operated. meaning
that if um a company like Cleford or if

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00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,480
the municipal corporation is operating
the plant, what they need to do on a

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00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,920
weekly basis, what reports they need to
do on a weekly basis, what tests they

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need to take and when they and their
annual reports have to go back and this

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is all monitored at the provincial level
and then then and then Clearford or the

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00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:53,119
operating company, the municipal
corporation will have an operator of

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00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,720
record assigned to this facility. So
they are legally bound and they're these

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are these are professionals that are
trained um and they are the operators of

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record and they're the ones their names
are on the ticket and they're the ones

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that are responsible for ensuring all
the reporting and everything that goes

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in that's asked for by that
ECA. So that's what these that's the

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approval side of things. I I'll talk
about all the protection on the

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equipment side shortly but let's get
into the technology. So what is MBR

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membrane bioreactor? So the acronym is a
bit backwards from a process standpoint.

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The membrane is the last part of the
process, but the bio actors

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first. So there's three main advantages
of MBR. Sorry, my slides aren't

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00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,599
appearing correctly, but no, not you.
Keep going. Okay. Um, the first is

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effluent quality. Now, we picked uh MBR
in the early 2000s because we knew it

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was best available technology. Then
regulations didn't require it. We could

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00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,000
have used a lagoon. You could have used
an oxidation dish. You could have used a

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00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,119
extended irration plant. dynamic naming
of things that if you're not into waste

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00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:59,440
water, you might not know what that is,
but these are all subpar technologies of

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00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:03,200
what MBR is. So, MBR giving you the
highest output. We said we're going to

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00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:07,839
go with that. Um, as engineers, we knew
we could make it better. Um, because at

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00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:13,599
the time, you know, they they used more
energy. They had um, you know, more

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00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:17,680
complexities to them. But as we grew
over the 20 years, and we did work in

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00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:22,320
the Arctic, we do work in the north in
in Baffan Island. We do work with uh

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00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:27,760
first nations communities. We do work um
throughout the globe in Africa. Um we

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were able to you know refine that
process and improve the technology so

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that um you you can maintain and get rid
of all those disadvantages that MBR had

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00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:41,920
back then um which are not valid today.
They have a small footprint um and

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they're scalable. So that was the key.
So being able to scale these up as

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00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:50,640
housing developments go and align
capital costs the cop cost of that plant

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00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:56,000
so that it doesn't burden the new homes
that are being built today and then when

398
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you do build more homes later that that
cost to build those new homes is still

399
00:38:57,839 --> 00:39:05,720
uh align with that new new phasing of
the next part of the

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00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:10,800
development. The process is very simple.
Um we we start with um the first thing

401
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:16,000
you do when you flush a toilet all your
toiletries go down. Um it goes into a

402
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tank and then sometimes it goes into
something called a screening process. So

403
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:24,000
what we'll do is we use a mechanical
screen and we remove all the toiletries,

404
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:28,880
all the inorganics, things that aren't
going to break down. Shoes, believe it

405
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:33,440
or not, uh t-shirts, we get it all. Um
but we remove all those first and then

406
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you're left with sewage, uh water. So
it's, you know, as you would expect. Um,

407
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,280
then that goes in that equalization tank
and that goes up and down with the flows

408
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,720
of the day. So as people in the morning
using lots of water, having showers,

409
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:49,119
making breakfast, um, that tank is
designed to fill um, and not overfill

410
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:52,800
for those peak times. So we design that
based on the flow because we know that

411
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:56,640
before we built the plant. The next
stage is we move that water to a

412
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:01,200
biological reactor. That tank always
stays full. It takes about 8 to 12 hours

413
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,640
for the drop of water to move from the
entire process from the front end all

414
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:08,560
the way to the back end. And part of
that is because this is mother nature

415
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:13,359
doing her part as the way they break
down the sewage. So in the biological

416
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:17,760
reactor, we use bubbles. Um when you use
small bubbles, we can put oxygen in the

417
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:21,599
water. Um and bugs in the water, they're
naturally in our stomach. They're in the

418
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:25,760
sewage. They are there. Um they activate
and become active when there's um

419
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:29,359
activity. So the the bubbles put oxygen
in. If we have two parts per million,

420
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,200
that's just a measurement of how much
oxygen that you can measure that's in

421
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:37,440
the water. They're very happy. They also
like warm temperatures. Anything above

422
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:42,480
12 degrees Celsius. Um, warmer the
better, just like us. Um, they also like

423
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:47,119
a balanced pH, so it can't be too
acidic. So, we control those three main

424
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:50,400
parameters in this biological reactor.
And while the bugs are happy and active,

425
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:55,359
they're eating and they're breaking down
that sewage. And we get that what we

426
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,720
call a mixed liquor. But for, you know,
a better way to say it, I always say it

427
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,240
looks like a dark chocolate milk, like
protein chocolate milk kind of stuff you

428
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:06,680
can get. My son's a runner, so that's
what he drinks. But it doesn't taste

429
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:13,440
like that, but it looks like
that. So, what we do then is we move it

430
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:18,240
from that tank to the smaller tank
that's got these guys in it. And this is

431
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:22,599
where the magic happens. So, hand them
out while you do. Oh, that'd be great.

432
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:22,599
Yeah, sure.

433
00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:29,560
So, I'm going to pretend I have one in
my hand. But, no, no, I don't need one.

434
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:33,839
No, I got a pen. We're
good. So, when you look at this, it's

435
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,839
it's a f. It's called a hollow fiber.
And think of it as a straw. And I think

436
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,440
those are the clean ones, so you should
be okay. Um, I'm just kidding. They are

437
00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:45,839
the clean. They're actually from that
one. Um, but it's a it's a straw and

438
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,960
it's hollow inside as you would expect a
straw to be. And it works exactly the

439
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:53,520
same as a straw. Couple small
differences. Instead of uh when you put

440
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,640
a vacuum a vacuum like when you suck on
a straw, you pull liquid through the

441
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:01,240
bottom of the straw and up through the
hollow of it. Um what we do is these

442
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:05,839
these membranes are plugged on the
bottom and then they're all connected

443
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:11,599
together at the top and then the wall of
the straw has very very tin tiny holes

444
00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:15,839
in it. 04 micron holes. If you see that
blue arrow at the bottom right corner,

445
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:20,920
it's pointing to a dot. It's not exactly
representative, but it gives you an idea

446
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:27,760
of how small that hole is compared to
bacteras, viruses, microplastics, some

447
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:31,520
pharmaceuticals, um carbon, uh you know,
combustible particles, all kinds of

448
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:37,680
stuff that we don't want to have in our
waterways. So, in order for a drop of

449
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:42,160
water to get past this membrane, it has
to go through that tiny hole into the

450
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:46,280
hollow of the straw as it's being sucked
out and then out through to this the

451
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:54,960
river or the stream that it's going
to. With that, you are left with uh an a

452
00:42:51,040 --> 00:43:01,040
very clean output that is reusable to
the extent that you could actually take

453
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:04,280
it to the next level of of polishing it.
This is what it looks like. That's the

454
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,640
dark chocolate milk on the left
side. Those are all the measurements

455
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:13,599
that you could measure wastewater things
like biological oxygen demand or total

456
00:43:11,119 --> 00:43:18,000
suspended solids and total ammonia
nitrog nitrogen or total uh total

457
00:43:16,319 --> 00:43:22,160
nitrogen total phosphorus. Phosphorus
you might have heard is is not one that

458
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:27,280
we want in our waterways. So this system
is a this does this membrane is able to

459
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,280
reject all

460
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:36,640
that. Oops.
uh to the point that we went to to a

461
00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:40,800
toilet demonstration at the plant. So on
the top picture you can see on the top

462
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:45,599
right picture there's a picture of a
small package plant there. That's an MBR

463
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,480
that's got this this membrane in it. Um
we took all the sewage. You've seen the

464
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:53,520
picture of our plant. We have about 100
folks there. They were using the

465
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:57,200
toilets. I contributed to this and they
put it into this plant. We treated it.

466
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,800
We put it through something called a
reverse osmosis. You might have one

467
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,599
under your under your kitchen sink. Um,
we pol, that's what I was saying when I

468
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:08,160
say polish, that's what I mean. We just
polish it. And then we had our board of

469
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:13,839
directors drink it. And I know they are
still all

470
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:19,680
good. Um, so from a technology
standpoint, um, it exists to take water,

471
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:23,520
waste water, sewage, and turn it into
um, reusable clean water. Now, obviously

472
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:28,480
drinking it, unless you're on a space
station, we wouldn't go to that level,

473
00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:32,800
but um, you can
The systems are small. They are very

474
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:37,359
compact. Um they're scalable as I said.
And this is what one looks like on the

475
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,480
inside. So the top picture where the
four is between those two, that's where

476
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:44,400
the membrane is sitting. So it's sitting
in a couple stainless steel tanks. And

477
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:47,040
then there's a tank in the ground, that
equalization tank I showed you up, but

478
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,839
that's where that up and down
everybody's using lots of water in the

479
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,880
mornings. The middle tank, that's where
the bugs are, the chocolate milk, the

480
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:56,880
mix liquor, that that's where all the
magic happens from mother nature. And

481
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,160
then a question you usually get asked,
um, and I'll I'll probably head it off

482
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,960
here if someone was going to ask it, but
what happens when all the stuff that

483
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,000
that you know, you pulled the clean
water out, but you left all the other

484
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:10,880
stuff behind? Well, that's what we call
sludge. So, we got to move that out of

485
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:15,760
the system. So, the what happens is the
bugs die. There's also the microplastics

486
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:20,160
and all the nasty stuff we don't want in
our waterway. We move that to a small

487
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:24,880
tank in Bcorn number six. This is the
sludge holding tank. And then what we do

488
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,839
is we decant that. Um we basically just
dewater. We take the decanted water, we

489
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:32,119
put it back into the front end of the
system and we thicken that up and

490
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:37,680
eventually becomes this, you know,
thicker sludge. And then what we do uh

491
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:42,240
is we put it through a digesting process
that allows it to become inert and then

492
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:46,960
it can be used as fertilizer or go to a
municipal plant. So that gets hauled

493
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:52,640
away. So really the only output of this
plant is clean water and the rest of it

494
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:58,880
gets hauled away to either um landfill
for f or sorry fertilizer for u for

495
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,920
farms and other applications can be
right to a wastewater plant like a

496
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:08,800
municipality but it only has to be
hauled away once every 30 days

497
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:14,079
roughly. Um Quinny West we have two 500
home plants there owned and operated by

498
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:18,800
um the municipality of Quinny West. This
is a picture of the of the stone crest

499
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,599
uh system. So you can see those
stainless steel tanks on the right side.

500
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,560
That's the one that has the membranes in
it. Um the downward picture in the

501
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:28,319
middle is, you know, just the plant.
It's in a traditional a butler building.

502
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:31,520
And then there's some tanks in the
ground on the one side. And then you see

503
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:35,359
a couple pictures below. Those are just
equipment on skids that we put inside

504
00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:38,960
the building. Um same concept, same
idea, but essentially the developer came

505
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:42,160
in said, "We want to build 500 homes."
Quinny West said, "We don't have the

506
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,680
capacity. We don't have the you couldn't
even run the price. It cost you $20

507
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:50,960
million to run the pipe. We put this
plan in for a fraction of that and the

508
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:55,040
developer bought it and gave it over to
the municipality. The municipality now

509
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:59,119
runs it as a utility. They have now 500
homes to collect taxes from and they

510
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:04,400
also have a wastewater plant that's been
running for, you know, 7

511
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:09,760
years. Same same idea. This one's in
actually St. Thomas. Um it's a Amazon

512
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:14,000
warehouse. So Amazon's got about 1,500
people working in this warehouse. same

513
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:18,079
situation. They didn't have servicing.
So, we were able to be able to put down

514
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:21,440
a system that was able to service um
service the plant and it handles all the

515
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:26,160
different peaks and variations cuz you
imagine Christmas time there's a lot

516
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:31,119
more workers. Um this one's uh in Lake
Msoka. So, that is actually Lake Mscoia

517
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:37,000
and we're discharging into it. Um the
water that's coming out of this plant,

518
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,000
as I said, is cleaner than Lake Msoka.

519
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:47,920
Um this one's just a uh it's in Quinty
area as well or Consequ I guess. Um so

520
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:52,800
it's a it's a RV or um mobile home park
and uh it's been in operation for a

521
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:52,800
number of years. I think

522
00:47:54,599 --> 00:48:02,560
2015. Oh, there we go.
So process-wise, I mean, not process,

523
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,920
but just from, you know, a system,
having all the permitting in place,

524
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:11,040
having a system designed and built and
set up on on on the on the facility and

525
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:15,200
then, you know, fabricating in in
startup um is a very short process

526
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:19,839
compared to what a traditional build
would be if you were building something

527
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:24,400
that was a mega plant. Um all within a
year or two at the most. And then

528
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:29,440
ongoing operations. So, um, these
systems are designed for 35, 40 year

529
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:33,119
life. So, they are all stainless steel.
There's nothing magical in these

530
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:38,640
systems. The the the most unusual part
is is is is the membrane itself. Um, all

531
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:43,119
the pumps, there's there's small little
pumps. There's everything that you go in

532
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:47,920
there. You could use your phone and
Google it and find that part and order

533
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:51,520
it yourself. Um, there's nothing magical
inside these boxes. Um, we've just

534
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,200
gotten really good at designing and
packaging them up so that they operate

535
00:48:53,040 --> 00:49:00,240
and last a long long time and operation
companies like Clearford and and um as

536
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:04,240
as utility corps come online um we'll be
able to operate them very easily. They

537
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:11,119
have telemetry in them. They're easy to
um get information and

538
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:14,319
data. I think that's all I have. Great.
Thank you, Brad. Uh we just got a few

539
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:18,160
more slides here. I just want to talk
again about from the land use planning

540
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:22,800
and the community building perspective.
I mean for us uh communal services

541
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:27,440
really is an opportunity to do
sustainable rural community building uh

542
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:31,839
particularly for our villages and
hamlets because we know that in order to

543
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,200
you can't even do any infill or any
additional residential units on the

544
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:40,960
small lots in the villages because of
the existing servicing. Um and so there

545
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:45,440
is opportunity uh for for our villages.
One the first example I'll reference

546
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:50,240
here is the uh housing master plan that
was done for Verona. So just a little

547
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:55,040
ways down the road. Um this is being led
by South Ronak Township themselves. Uh

548
00:49:52,480 --> 00:50:00,720
it is a mix of town houses and apartment
buildings and they are looking at having

549
00:49:57,359 --> 00:50:06,000
anywhere from 70 to 100 units. Uh the
the final number will depend on the

550
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:09,440
design and the servicing capacity that
they um that they have to figure out

551
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:14,240
through the environmental approval
process and they are in the final stages

552
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:17,599
of that process. Um, the other example I
was going to share is probably very

553
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,960
familiar to people in the room. It's the
Sharper Lake school site which is

554
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:24,559
basically next door here. So, it's the
it's a twoacre site right here in the

555
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,400
heart of the village. Um, I know the
township had purchased it with the

556
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:34,000
intent of doing seniors housing and
having 8 to 10 units using the existing

557
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:37,440
well and septic. Um, you know, as the
county was working on the communal

558
00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:41,440
services study, we said, you know what,
what if we use communal services? So, we

559
00:50:39,359 --> 00:50:44,800
worked with the township and got funding
from the Federation of Canadian

560
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,599
Municipalities to do what's called a
feasibility study. And some of you may

561
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:53,359
have been, you know, present for that
presentation. But the that study

562
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:59,599
determined that using communal services,
you could have anywhere from 45 to 50

563
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:04,079
apartments uh units on that site. Uh
what is shown here? At the time, we we

564
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:08,079
asked the the consultant, can you give
us just some rough conceptual ideas of

565
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:12,720
what that could look like? and they had
two options. One uh there was one larger

566
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:17,359
uh three-story building and this option
was the two uh three-story buildings. I

567
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,640
will say right now no decisions have
been made about Sharet Lake. Uh there's

568
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:25,440
still technical work that needs to be
done, decisions to be made uh by

569
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:29,680
council, but this is an opportunity uh
for for Charlotte Lake to be able to

570
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:35,839
utilize communal services to the benefit
of the community in the future.

571
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:39,359
Uh so in terms of our official plan
policies, like I mentioned, the official

572
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:43,680
plan that a municipality has is
basically your blueprint for how you're

573
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:47,839
going to grow. At the county level, we
amended our official plan to talk about

574
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:51,680
communal services and to provide
direction to the townships. So the first

575
00:51:49,839 --> 00:51:55,920
thing that we had said is any new
residential subdivisions. So actual

576
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,319
neighborhoods uh that are going to be in
hamlets and villages need to be on

577
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:05,280
communal services wherever feasible to
be able to achieve a compatible density

578
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:09,680
and to fit in with the villages. Um
townships can consider using communal

579
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:14,720
services to service existing villages
and hamlets including uh any doing any

580
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:18,160
kind of main street improvements. And we
also want it to be the primary servicing

581
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,359
method for any new large-scale
commercial and or industrial

582
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:24,960
developments as well as any business
parks. So that's another development

583
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:28,559
opportunity that we haven't seen much of
is where you have a business park and a

584
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,520
collection of businesses. Um because
again everybody has different servicing

585
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:35,440
needs. Being able to do it through
communal services offers up an

586
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:40,079
opportunity to do some different uh
business type developments than what

587
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:43,599
we've had in the past as well.
So, in terms of the township official

588
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:47,119
plan and the conversation we want to
start in the community, um there are a

589
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,160
number of things that we have to address
and these are the kinds of things that

590
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:54,240
we want people to start thinking about
in terms of how you want to use this,

591
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:57,920
right? So, are you going to use these
for your hamlets and villages? Are are

592
00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:03,599
is it something you would want in all of
your hamlets or maybe just some of them?

593
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:08,400
If so, which ones and and why? um how
how would you use communal services to

594
00:53:05,839 --> 00:53:14,079
create new forms of housings and what
kind of scale and density and how big

595
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:18,000
and what forms of housing uh you know
apartments if so how big of an apartment

596
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:23,280
so there there's all that scale but how
how how this new housing could fit into

597
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,280
the existing

598
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:33,440
community would you want to be able to
use communal services in a rural area

599
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:37,040
for a a rural subdivision Um, and if so,
again, what would you want it to look

600
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:40,319
like? Um, one of the things that, you
know, we want to be prepared for is if

601
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:44,400
somebody walks in the door one day and
says, "Well, I have 100 acres. I'd like

602
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:47,839
to build 300 homes and then that's
bigger than most of your villages and

603
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:51,520
hamlets. Is that something the township
would be willing to entertain? And if

604
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:56,240
so, what what would need to be done by
that developer? Would you want to see it

605
00:53:53,760 --> 00:54:01,040
used for waterfront developments? If so,
in what cases? On all lakes potentially,

606
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:05,440
or only on some lakes? or are some legs
not okay? So, there's that conversation

607
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:09,680
to have about is it of a benefit, you
know, rather to have some areas perhaps

608
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,640
rather than having them densely
populated with everybody having their

609
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:16,480
own septic, is there an environmental
benefit to having everybody on a

610
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:20,640
communal system and the system is set
quite a ways away from the lake. And

611
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:25,200
then the other conversation too to have
is is what would somebody have to do?

612
00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:28,640
What are the plans and studies and all
of the criteria and approval systems

613
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:33,440
that they would be required to do to
demonstrate that communal services are

614
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,400
appropriate for what they're proposing
and that they have to prove that there's

615
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:43,040
going to be no negative impact
environmentally and to and to the

616
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:47,680
community. So that is the last slide
that is the formal presentation. Uh some

617
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:51,119
of the slides I apologize the resolution
was the text was showing up. It's still

618
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:56,800
showing up a little bit strange here,
but we are going to put uh a PDF of all

619
00:54:53,839 --> 00:55:01,359
of these slides uh on the website that
you see there, the engage front uh site.

620
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:05,359
If you signed up, I'll send out an email
when everything's ready in terms of the

621
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:11,599
presentation slides and and the YouTube
link and everything. But at this point,

622
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:14,720
if if there are are questions, um
actually, I have a question that I'm

623
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:20,079
going to ask Brad first if I can because
I think if I don't, somebody else is

624
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:25,599
going to ask it. and that is what if
something happens and the system fails

625
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:30,000
what happens to the lakes and and all
the private wells that might be around

626
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:36,319
it like what what's the risk
so as I said the um the membrane is that

627
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:41,040
physical barrier between the sewage and
the in the environment and and one of

628
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:45,040
the reasons why it's it's seen by
regulators which are you know

629
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:49,280
environmental um protection regulators
uh as best available technology is it it

630
00:55:47,359 --> 00:55:53,680
doesn't allow it to go anywhere but
through that. There is no bypass valve.

631
00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:56,799
Large municipalities, they get high rain
events. Guess what happens? They got a

632
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:00,760
valve. They have to write a letter and
big report, but it goes out to the Lake

633
00:55:58,559 --> 00:56:04,400
Ontario as you know a version of raw
sewage. That can't happen with these. It

634
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:09,280
has to go through the membrane. There is
no short circuit. Um your backup backup

635
00:56:07,359 --> 00:56:12,720
plan. So before we get to the backup
backup plan, from a design and

636
00:56:11,359 --> 00:56:16,480
engineering standpoint, there's
redundant pumps. So there's two pumps

637
00:56:14,319 --> 00:56:20,000
for every pump. So if one pump the
automatically the other one comes on and

638
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:25,040
there's a shelf spare by the way
everything's died in telemetry text

639
00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:28,720
messages uh on alarm all come out to the
operator of record as I said who is

640
00:56:26,799 --> 00:56:34,880
responsible and they have a crew of
people that tend to these plants. Um and

641
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:40,240
if all of that fails and the generator
stopped or something unfortunate

642
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:45,599
happened um the the plant would not
produce output and the result would have

643
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:51,480
to be hauling. So, a truck would need to
come in and haul the sewage away. Um,

644
00:56:47,839 --> 00:56:51,480
that's the only option.

645
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:57,839
So, to like I said, we're happy if
people have questions. Um, again, if

646
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:02,000
you're online, you can use the raise
hand function uh through Zoom. And if

647
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:05,920
you're watching, excuse me, on Zoom on
your phone, it's I believe it's star 9

648
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:09,200
in order to raise your hand. And then
also, if there's anybody here, if you're

649
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:14,240
able to, it would be great if you could
come up and use uh the microphone. Um,

650
00:57:11,839 --> 00:57:17,839
if you don't want to or unable to, um,
if you want to yell at your question, I

651
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,920
can at least hopefully rephrase it or or
like repeat it properly so that people

652
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:26,319
can hear it
online. Any question? Yeah.

653
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:29,960
Okay. Just press the button till the
light turns green.

654
00:57:30,319 --> 00:57:38,319
I'm Ken Waller. I'm here on behalf of
the Sharpet Lake Property Owners

655
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:45,200
Association who have a great desire to
see the lake remain as good as it

656
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:50,799
possibly can. Uh is this a panacea for
development that it appears to be and

657
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:57,119
what is the response of the province to
to the installation? Are they I mean

658
00:57:54,319 --> 00:58:02,079
what you present seems to be the best of
any world possible and if someone's

659
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:06,559
willing to put it in is that a blanket
acceptance by the province.

660
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:11,200
So I almost said through you madam
mayor. Um I'll I'll take a stab at that

661
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:17,760
and then Brad or Joe feel free to to
step in. So right now um the one we we

662
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:22,079
feel one of the challenges that we we
have solved is is through the use of the

663
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:27,040
public utility. Our next challenge is
actually at the provincial level itself

664
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:32,079
with its environmental approvals. So
right now the environmental approvals

665
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:38,119
process for a sewage treatment plant if
it's publicly owned is the same no

666
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:44,559
matter if you're treating 30 homes or
300,000 homes. And it's a process that

667
00:58:41,799 --> 00:58:49,440
takes four to five years and close to
half a million dollars. And so the

668
00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:54,960
problem is most developers aren't going
to tie up that much money in that

669
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:58,480
lengthy of a process to do that. So we
are we are working with the province to

670
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,599
try and see if this is something that
they would consider. It's not that we

671
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:06,720
want to bypass the environmental
approvals process, but we feel the

672
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:12,000
approvals process needs to like needs to
be changed to address the scale of what

673
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:16,799
is actually being proposed.
So yeah, I don't know if there's

674
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:21,440
anything Joe if you want to add. It's a
good that's a very good question, Ken,

675
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:27,520
because I think Brad has shown how good
the technology

676
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:30,880
is and there's been two reasons why I
mean I've been doing working on this for

677
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:36,400
almost a decade and I've learned there's
two reasons why these aren't more

678
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:39,839
prevalent in Ontario. So Sonia mentioned
the thing called the municipal

679
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:44,559
responsibility agreement which is
essentially a contract between a

680
00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:48,880
municipality and a developer that if the
system fails and and I think Brad has

681
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:55,079
shown tonight the chance of a failure is
not very high with these systems that or

682
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:59,359
the developer bankrupts or walks away
that you the the rules are correct

683
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:04,079
because the province is saying we don't
want the the environment to be damaged

684
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:09,119
or people have health risks. So, you've
got to take the system

685
01:00:05,799 --> 01:00:14,640
over. But for places like central Front,
in fact, all four townships in Frontac

686
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:18,319
County, there's not enough um money in
the bank to let them sign a contract

687
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:22,720
that says you don't have to give us any
money. As Sonia says, you have the

688
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:28,960
developers have to double down and that
is a real burden with the utility that

689
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:33,839
Fontac has set up and this is the first
jurisdiction in Ontario that has this

690
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:38,799
utility for these systems. It will take
the system over. The developer will pay

691
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:42,319
to build the system. The utility will
monitor the installation, make sure it's

692
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:46,119
built the right way, and Brad can talk
to you more importantly about why it

693
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:51,520
needs to be built right right out of the
gate. And then we manage it, but the

694
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:56,400
developer doesn't have to worry about
fixing it or anything. It's the utility

695
01:00:53,440 --> 01:01:00,160
will take that over. So, the contract is
not necessary anymore. That's a big step

696
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:06,000
forward. The other part is the
environmental approvals that Sonia has

697
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:10,319
just spoken about. So the utility right
now and the president of the utility

698
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:17,119
sitting right here beside me by the way
um is working on best practices. So for

699
01:01:15,319 --> 01:01:20,880
example, one of the things they're
looking at

700
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:26,480
is is there two or three or four of
these systems sort of like new terra

701
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:29,839
that we want to stamp that we like and
those three or four systems will were

702
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:33,599
what are what we want to see built in
front. If a developer comes in and he

703
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:37,280
wants to do something different, he's
going to have to prove really prove it's

704
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:40,480
going to work. But I think it'll the
developers will like that. They'll know

705
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:46,559
that oh if I use this you're going to
support it. So that's good. and also

706
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:51,520
they're going to be um making sure that
they're well operated. So, it's we're

707
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:54,960
doing that right now. But those two big
obstacles are the reasons why there's

708
01:01:53,359 --> 01:01:58,359
not many of these systems in Ontario.
And if we get the environmental

709
01:01:56,839 --> 01:02:02,319
approvals
streamlined, you know, recognizing in

710
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:07,760
Frontac, we're never going to have a 500
unit subdivision here. Um and and as as

711
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:12,079
Sonia said, the whole reason we did this
was about community building. So in the

712
01:02:09,839 --> 01:02:17,200
Sharet Lake case for example, the
feasibility study said this type of

713
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:21,200
technology is is is good for all the
reasons that Brad has laid out. But not

714
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:25,200
only that, council can have a
conversation with the village to say

715
01:02:23,359 --> 01:02:28,799
maybe it's not just the school site we
want to service. We could service other

716
01:02:26,799 --> 01:02:33,200
properties like this building here
tonight um to help make sure that this

717
01:02:31,839 --> 01:02:38,079
is all going to work well in the next
hundred years. So the technology is a

718
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:40,960
non-starter. It's but it's interesting.
I've learned that the planning world

719
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:45,760
hasn't learned much about this. It's
only since Frontac has started this that

720
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:53,040
the ears have picked up on this and and
it is our future in Frontac. I think

721
01:02:49,559 --> 01:02:58,720
yes, it it in the past there was an
attempt to do a group housing with a

722
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:04,119
common setup just south of the bridge
and it

723
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:11,040
it the developer gave up and discussed
after the route he had to follow. This

724
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:15,760
system seems to be a drop-in plug-in
system that is already approved. The

725
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:22,240
environmental
uh monitoring on the input stage leading

726
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:26,559
up to it and the output stage exiting it
seem to be the areas that would only

727
01:03:23,839 --> 01:03:32,079
have to be covered plus or minus the the
interaction between them. Is that a fair

728
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:37,039
assessment?
I'll just I'll use my analogy my truck

729
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:40,960
analogy and then do that if you did. So,
and Brad will confirm this. MECP,

730
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:44,000
Ministry of the Environment, knows
exactly what Nutra is and what they

731
01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:47,280
build and the quality of the build. And
I'll let you talk about that in a

732
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:51,680
second. What we've been saying to the
province is, look, we can't make

733
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,880
developers, private sector developers
come in here to build a 100 homes, put

734
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,640
them through a 5-year environmental
approval process, and spend more than a

735
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:02,000
half a million dollars where they could
invest in the stock market. They could

736
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,920
invest in other things other than than
community building. So, you've got to

737
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:11,520
speed the process up. And the analogy we
use is look for example with new terra

738
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:16,400
you know exactly how this how it works.
Just like General Motors designing a new

739
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:22,640
truck and they take that design to
Transport Canada and Transport Canada

740
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:26,640
approves the gas efficiency
um the the crash tests and everything

741
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:30,480
and they stamp that truck's good to go
and then they go back to Ashawa and roll

742
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:34,480
thousands of them off the plant line.
Our argument is if you know that in

743
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:38,400
front we're only going to use two or
three of these systems and you you know

744
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:41,440
exactly how they work, then why are you
going to make us go through the same

745
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:45,839
thing over and over again? And I'm going
to turn it over to you, Brad. Sure.

746
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:50,960
Yeah, I like that analogy, but um you
don't want to crash your truck before

747
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:54,480
you get it, but um the the reality is
the process with the Ministry of

748
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:59,119
Environment has created is a good one
and and it's robust, but it's designed

749
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:02,799
for centralized wastewater treatment.
So, it's designed for the mega plants.

750
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:07,200
You're putting in a $100 million plant.
You definitely need a 5-year process to

751
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:12,240
evaluate all the parts and pieces. And
think about the flow. You're talking

752
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:18,799
about um millions of gallons of water
per day. Um tens of millions. So, um

753
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:21,920
what when our conversations with the
Ministry of Environment is they know

754
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:26,559
this technology, they know exactly what
it can do. um you know, we we've we've

755
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:32,240
proven beyond what they know it can do
and and and they've accepted some of our

756
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:36,480
piloting data. Um but the reality is um
there's only so many sensitive receivers

757
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:39,680
in so if you're familiar with the
different types of receivers, a policy 2

758
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:44,160
receiver in Ontario is probably one of
the most strict receivers from a

759
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:48,400
phosphorus standpoint. It's 03 parts per
million or milligrams per liter. That is

760
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:53,520
very strict. This this technology can
exceed that. Um so and they know that.

761
01:05:51,359 --> 01:05:56,240
So I if what we're really looking from
the Ministry of Environment isn't we

762
01:05:54,640 --> 01:06:00,079
don't want to be relaxed. We want them
to tighten. Give us the worst case. Give

763
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:04,880
us the policy to receiver and we'll meet
that effluent every day. Um so that's

764
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:08,400
really what we're pushing for. We're not
looking to relax it. Now there's other

765
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:13,200
technologies out there that can't hit
this techn this level of of of effluent.

766
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:15,440
And those are the technologies that the
ministry wants to evaluate and say,

767
01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:18,960
"Well, wait a minute. Where are you
putting this water? Let's go into a

768
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:24,079
wetlands." Okay. And phosphorus could
probably be maybe 1 milligram per liter.

769
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:28,240
not 03. So those are the considerations
that the ministry is doing because they

770
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:33,920
treat every site differently which I
think is okay. We just need to you know

771
01:06:30,319 --> 01:06:39,240
that that first um process just needs to
be a bit more streamlined for the size

772
01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:44,839
of plant that we're dealing with.
Question is there a minimum number of

773
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:52,000
units below which this
5-year process is not required?

774
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:58,079
So under the building code um 10,000
lers which is 10 cubic meters per day um

775
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:02,799
that is the where you can use a septic
system or communal septic system or um

776
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:07,359
there's other there are some
technologies that are are approved under

777
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:11,039
the building code. So um we don't do
anything under the building code that

778
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:16,720
flow is too low for what we offer. We do
more of the communal side. So anything

779
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:20,160
above 10,000 L per day or 10 cubic
meters per day which is the same thing.

780
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:24,319
Yeah, generally I just just to add to
that. So that's that's about five homes.

781
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:27,200
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that's about five
homes, right? So I think you were saying

782
01:07:25,839 --> 01:07:32,000
you could do it for as little these
communal for as little as 10. Now is 10

783
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:36,720
financially viable for a developer who's
looking at building a bunch of homes.

784
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:39,440
Maybe, maybe not. But I think um like
like Joe said, we're not going to see

785
01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:43,599
somebody move roll in here and want to
build 500 homes in one place. That's

786
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:48,640
just not how we're growing, right?
But a developer who wants to build five

787
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:54,000
homes, is it economical for him to
produce a system like this without going

788
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:57,920
through the process five years? Uh, no.
So these systems are not um approved

789
01:07:56,079 --> 01:08:04,200
under the building code. We there just
they're they're not they're designed for

790
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:04,200
communal treatment. Yeah,

791
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:13,440
I think I saw a question in the second
row. Yeah, just a simple question.

792
01:08:11,839 --> 01:08:17,400
So the question was what is the track
record for these systems?

793
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:26,960
Um track record as far as um output goes
um problems. Oh I mean these are

794
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:30,799
machines so obviously there's there's um
operation and maintenance requirements

795
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:35,040
that have to happen. Um there is a
operation plan operation maintenance

796
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:40,239
plan. Um replacement parts these are
good for about 7 to 10 years. So you

797
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:43,440
have to acrue uh you know you're you
also have to remember these systems are

798
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:46,640
are utilities. So they're generating
revenue from the homeowners basically

799
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:51,040
for using water when they lived in the
city. You pay you pay water bill. Um so

800
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:55,359
that water or that money that's being
accured is is set aside some of it set

801
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:59,120
aside for replacement parts. Pumps will
wear out over time. You have to replace

802
01:08:56,719 --> 01:09:04,880
the seals in the pumps every 3 years. Um
and there's a whole uh regimented uh

803
01:09:02,480 --> 01:09:09,920
onm. So to answer your question, what is
a failure rate? It's it's uh it's it's

804
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:14,799
dependent on the site. So there they're
definitely I would never there's always

805
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:19,120
fail points and and the whole purpose of
having these systems with the

806
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:23,359
redundancies and having all of the um
the backups um is to prevent and

807
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:30,000
mitigate any of those issues. Um but you
will have things break. So

808
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:34,640
so the other benefit we have in Frac is
the utility. So when I started this

809
01:09:31,759 --> 01:09:37,839
project and the planning planners in the
area were starting to understand what we

810
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:42,880
were doing, I got a phone call from one
of my colleagues said, "I got one of

811
01:09:39,759 --> 01:09:48,440
these in my community that failed." So I
was puzzled by that, but then I got more

812
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:53,520
information about it. And the reason it
failed and and Brad, you can add on to

813
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:58,960
this is because it wasn't being operated
the right way. It was it was a a

814
01:09:57,199 --> 01:10:02,880
campground and they weren't maintaining
it. they weren't following those rules

815
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:07,040
that you have about maintaining it. But
the fact that the utility here will be

816
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:10,960
owning these systems and maintaining
them is going to even reduce that risk

817
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:16,400
even more. I don't know if you want to
add anything. No, that's exactly right.

818
01:10:13,199 --> 01:10:22,320
And and I'd say the regulations around
um the reporting have gotten more strict

819
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:25,760
over the years. Um so, you know, I don't
know how old that project was. It was

820
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:31,120
almost 20 years ago or 15 years ago. But
that those those um those situations are

821
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:34,560
fairly rare now. Most, you know, don't
get me wrong, things happen, things

822
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:40,560
break, power goes out, we have ice
storms. Um um so there's emergency plans

823
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:44,560
that get activated um and then, you
know, the system gets gets rectified and

824
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:48,640
and back up and running. But but it's
about operation and maintenance. And

825
01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:52,880
when you have a utility company or you
have an operator of record that is

826
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:57,199
maintaining it and following the the uh
recommendations by the manufacturer,

827
01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:03,560
these systems run great. Um, and there's
many examples. There's 40 in Ontario

828
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:03,560
that are are good examples of that.

829
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:08,640
So, the one thing that I was going to
mention because I I've gotten questions

830
01:11:06,719 --> 01:11:14,239
about it before, but is in terms of the
cost and who is paying for what, and I

831
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:17,679
think Joe had alluded to this um that
when it comes to somebody building

832
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:22,159
something new, say somebody wants to
build a subdivision, the developer is

833
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:26,640
responsible for paying all the costs.
So, the township is not paying for the

834
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:31,120
pipes in the system. The developer is
responsible for paying all the costs of

835
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:36,560
installing the system, of installing the
pipes, hooking everything up, and it's

836
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:39,920
overseen by the public utility. And then
once they know the system is working

837
01:11:38,159 --> 01:11:44,560
properly, it's turned over to the
utility, and then the people who buy the

838
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:49,440
homes in that subdivision, uh, the
utility will charge them a utility rate.

839
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:52,480
So, so yes, you would get a monthly bill
for water and sewer just like you would

840
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:57,760
if you were living in Kingston or
Napony. Um, but you also then don't have

841
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:01,520
to worry about taking care of a well or
shelling out $40,000 to replace your

842
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:05,199
entire septic system because you don't
have to worry about that anymore. And I

843
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:09,360
know when Joe when you were doing this
research, correct me if I'm wrong, but I

844
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:13,000
think you know you you did ask some
people about costs for communal services

845
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:17,440
and it was about
$150 a month for water and sewer, which

846
01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:20,159
some people if you have a wellness
septic and you're not paying any bill

847
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:25,199
right now other than say your water
softener, that you know might seem like

848
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:30,000
a lot, but like I said the you know if
if you are on a septic system you should

849
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:33,840
probably be putting $150 a month away
anyways to start saving up for replacing

850
01:12:32,159 --> 01:12:39,120
that septic system because it's going to
cost a lot when that comes around. So,

851
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:43,280
so unless it's the township who wants to
and and the community who decides they

852
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:46,960
want to service existing
uh properties and buildings, then yes,

853
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:50,080
you're going to have to come to some
kind of financial understanding as to

854
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:53,840
how that's all going to come about. But
when it's new development that's solely

855
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:58,560
on this communal system, it's entirely
on the developer to pay for everything

856
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:02,800
to install it. And then like like Brad
said, that monthly utility bill is to

857
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:07,520
pay for the costs of the use and the
treatment of everything, but also to

858
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:10,960
start setting pieces money aside to
replace all that infrastructure as it

859
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:15,360
needs to be replaced during its
lifetime. So that's what the utility

860
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:19,600
will manage.
And just to add to that, we do have some

861
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:24,000
holding tanks in the village. One being
the church just down the hill and our

862
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:28,800
restaurant, the belong restaurant is on
a holding tank. And that cost for the

863
01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:31,840
church, which is just a small tank, is
like

864
01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:36,880
$350 and it gets pumped two or three
times a year. So that's certainly a

865
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:39,520
bigger cost than buying into the system
at

866
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:44,199
150. Yes. at the back.

867
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:13,920
what initial cost to the developer to
takes on that responsibility because

868
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:20,159
presumably that's a fairly low threshold
and putting units there probably

869
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:24,719
wouldn't um be cost effective. So some
research about what that initial cost

870
01:14:22,719 --> 01:14:28,880
and then the cost effectiveness the
developer might fall what range. Okay.

871
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,760
Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you
because that was a really long question.

872
01:14:30,159 --> 01:14:36,960
I now have to repeat it for the folks
online. So, so you're asking about the

873
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:41,880
costs as well as all the infrastructure.

874
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:50,080
Okay. So, so sorry I'm about to repeat
it. Then you let me know if it's right.

875
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:53,360
So, you want to know if there have been
cost estimates done, and you're

876
01:14:51,679 --> 01:14:58,159
specifically asking about the former
Charlotte Lake school site to install

877
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:03,679
all of that infrastructure and the
system to be able to pull water from one

878
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:07,199
side and to output it in the other side.
I'm trying to remember what was in the

879
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:10,800
feasibility. We we have not worked out
all of those details. Those are parts of

880
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:14,560
the technical studies that still need to
be done for that site. And and I'll have

881
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:18,960
to say we don't even know that if it's
like I think the initial idea was take

882
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:22,480
it from one side and output in the other
side. That may not be the ultimate

883
01:15:20,719 --> 01:15:26,320
solution that comes up with. So there
the environmental approvals process

884
01:15:24,239 --> 01:15:30,960
needed for that site is going to look at
all the various options and and the

885
01:15:28,719 --> 01:15:36,080
costing as well. So that those details
have not been done yet.

886
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:41,880
No. Sally are Sally, can you use the
microphone? Is that or do you want me to

887
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,880
repeat it? Okay.

888
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:00,480
So, so the the question was again in
relation to the Charlotte Lake school

889
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:04,520
site, what what is the minimum number of
residential units that would be built to

890
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:08,800
make it financially feasible for a
developer? That's a good question. I

891
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:12,400
think I mean I know it can run on as
little as 10 but there's a lot of

892
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:16,880
factors and costs that go into
development. So I think again that's

893
01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:20,640
something that the financials we have
the township needs to look at in terms

894
01:16:18,719 --> 01:16:24,760
of in terms of the cost. Did anybody
else want to add to that answer?

895
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:33,440
Yeah. Not not to the not to the
development specifically but just more

896
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:38,560
to the technology. Um the technology is
designed that it can turn down its flow.

897
01:16:35,679 --> 01:16:44,920
So say, okay, so say the system was good
for 30 homes, it can operate as low as

898
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:44,920
about five or six homes.

899
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:54,960
No, when you do the math based on five
homes, so as you can imagine, as you get

900
01:16:52,719 --> 01:16:57,960
in more homes, the dollars per home go
down.

901
01:16:59,679 --> 01:17:06,880
Ongoing presumably wouldn't be very
feasible for the monthly rate, right?

902
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:12,640
Smaller
So the question was that if there were

903
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:17,360
fewer uh homes that the so that it
wouldn't be economically feasible on a

904
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:22,239
ongoing monthly basis either and that is
again I think something the utility is

905
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:26,960
going to have to work out. I mean, um,
for an ongoing rate, the essentially the

906
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:34,320
way utilities normally work is you pay a
certain amount per volume that you use

907
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:38,080
and it and and then that's equal across
wherever you are for the utility. I

908
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:42,080
mean, if you're in Kingston, you don't
pay a different rate than what you do

909
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:45,440
from the east end to the west end, but
you pay a different rate based on the

910
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:49,920
volume that you use. So that is
something that the utility is still

911
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:52,719
working on. But but ideally, yes, if if
they were doing it as as a pay per

912
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:56,080
volume, you would want to spread it
across. But I don't think that's our

913
01:17:54,159 --> 01:18:01,120
intent is our intent is for the utility
to be able to set one rate regardless.

914
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:06,159
But again, if if you're going to go to
the extent of building this system, you

915
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:10,880
most developers are going to need to
build a certain threshold number of

916
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:15,760
units in order to actually make the
whole project financially viable to do.

917
01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:25,719
Yes, those details are all still being
worked out. Got to get a developer

918
01:18:22,719 --> 01:18:25,719
first.

919
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:58,679
I guess just uh Francis confirm. So if
Charet Lake is developed or done like

920
01:18:55,320 --> 01:19:04,400
um it is only at this point
for the Sharpet Lake the old public

921
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:09,360
school site and a couple of buildings.
It's not for the entire village of

922
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:15,600
Sharpet Lake. Is that correct?
My understanding would be it would be

923
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:20,679
built for this um particular build, but
anybody else who wanted to join in could

924
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:25,400
do it. The township could hook up this
building. The church could get rid of

925
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:31,199
their holding tank and go on this
system. So it would once we once it's

926
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:35,440
built, you can add to it. Okay. So my
understanding in though is there would

927
01:19:32,719 --> 01:19:43,040
not be tax there would no be no impact
to a taxpayer that is not a resident of

928
01:19:39,679 --> 01:19:47,280
or not involved in it. So an individual
in Ardan is not going to pay for the

929
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:52,120
reconstruction in Chevrolet. Is that
correct? the developer will pay for it

930
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:58,320
and then the the
um service corporation will take over

931
01:19:55,120 --> 01:20:03,040
the running of it and it's not on the
municipal taxes nor is the liability on

932
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:07,560
the municipality. It's on the
corporation. Okay. So, I'll switch

933
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:13,600
topics now. My question
is reading a study that is account on

934
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:18,719
the county website called the
projections.

935
01:20:15,239 --> 01:20:24,719
Um when I read it I must say it brings
tears to my eyes of the projections for

936
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:29,520
central frontac. Um it's saying that
there is no you know very little growth.

937
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:35,920
It's going to be a declining population
over the next 30

938
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:42,719
years. My question is what has changed?
So, you know, I I I love the idea of

939
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:46,679
having growth because it will change our
tax base and solve many

940
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:54,480
problems,
but it seems unusual to anticipate a lot

941
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:59,280
of growth in a community that I'm going
to say hopscotches. So, normally if I

942
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:04,600
look at any other area that's growing,
it starts at the hub and comes out

943
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:10,080
through the spokes. you know, in
GTA, it starts in Toronto, comes up to

944
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:16,960
Steels Avenue, goes to Richmond Hill,
goes to Aurora, New Market. In our case,

945
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:22,159
what is it that we think is going to
bring growth? You know, when when I see

946
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:29,040
projections of apartment buildings, uh,
town houses, but we're still 50 or 60

947
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:32,040
miles from the employment center of of
Kingston.

948
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:39,280
I guess the question that I sit there in
the audience and listen to is if we

949
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:43,840
build it, will they come? Now, I'm
thrilled to hear that we're not putting

950
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:49,920
dollars out. There's no tax dollars for
the developers, but have we had

951
01:21:46,159 --> 01:21:55,600
developers pounding on our door? Um, you
know, I see Verona, that's not that far

952
01:21:53,040 --> 01:22:04,960
down the road. are developers pounding
on the door um to do this or are we just

953
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:09,199
kind of pie in the sky? I guess the
question is has anybody looked for a

954
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:16,239
place to rent in our community because
there aren't any if there are there's 17

955
01:22:12,679 --> 01:22:21,760
$1,800 a month for one and two bedrooms.
We have people who cannot find places to

956
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:26,080
live. So yes, there's a need. We also
have seniors who move out of our

957
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:29,880
community and go to the city to an
apartment because they don't have an

958
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:34,880
option of an apartment here that's
affordable. So I do believe if we build

959
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:42,800
it, they will come. And the other thing
is we're growing probably at 25 to 30

960
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:47,840
houses a year that's going up. I go for
drives on some of the roads out of the

961
01:22:45,679 --> 01:22:52,719
villages and I can't believe the houses
that have gone up. So we are growing

962
01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:57,440
very steadily and probably at a good
rate if we grow much faster. We've got

963
01:22:55,600 --> 01:23:05,120
lots of things we have to do to prepare
for that. So I I I believe that we are

964
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:11,199
growing. I see it as well Fran. But um
again I go back to the study which I'm

965
01:23:07,679 --> 01:23:16,480
sure we paid what year was that? So I as
January 20th 2020 so it's not that long

966
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:19,840
ago. So, so we so that so the study
you're referring to just for everybody

967
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:24,159
else's uh reference is the population
housing and employment projections uh

968
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:29,520
that are done by the county uh for for
the whole county. Um it's a standard the

969
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:33,840
issue that um municipalities do these
every 5 years and they do them generally

970
01:23:32,159 --> 01:23:38,800
once we know that all the most recent
census data uh has been has been

971
01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:42,960
released. So, we actually just got
approval from county council last year

972
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:46,880
um to update that study because we're
going to be updating our official plan.

973
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:52,159
So, we will be doing an updated study
probably end of this year into next

974
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:56,159
year. Um and I'm pretty certain based on
what I've seen that those numbers are

975
01:23:53,679 --> 01:24:00,960
going to change. We have seen growth
especially since co the world the world

976
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:06,000
has the world has changed in many ways
but but certainly with co and people

977
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:09,600
leaving urban areas to come and live in
rural areas was a change that not

978
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:14,639
predicted when that study was done.
Okay. No because in the study it talks

979
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:22,239
about 80% of the growth will be in south
front neck with declining growth in

980
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:27,440
central front neck. Um so back to your
point madame mayor. Yes, I see how is

981
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:33,199
this built, but again, it's supporting
what was written in this which says it's

982
01:24:29,719 --> 01:24:39,600
on it's not in the hamlets. It's in the
rural areas. And I don't see that a

983
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:45,600
communal is necessarily going to help
unless we can go onto a lake and build

984
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:49,199
10 homes or or whatever or lodge or or
whatever. So, well, I think one of the

985
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:52,800
things we'll do this time when we we
hire the economists to to to look at

986
01:24:51,199 --> 01:24:57,120
those projections is to tell them that
we now have a utility that allows you to

987
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:59,840
build on communal services and we can
now build in our hamlets and our

988
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:03,840
villages in the way that we couldn't
before. And I'm hoping that they will

989
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:08,800
deliver us some different news and ideas
about then what is possible. No, and I

990
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:12,719
think that would be great. And I'll just
I guess make one last comment cuz others

991
01:25:10,719 --> 01:25:18,000
want to speak. But you know, part of
that then is doing the SWAT analysis to

992
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:21,880
say here are the strengths. Here's what
it's going to mean to the taxpayer. Uh

993
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:28,719
here's the opportunities. Here's the
threats. And I believe that will help if

994
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:34,239
individuals can see that it's going to
change the constantly escalating tax

995
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:39,040
base that is happening in central front.
If we can if we can grow and if we can

996
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:43,760
have a different picture in front of us
than what this is portraying. Okay.

997
01:25:42,239 --> 01:25:48,600
Thank you. Great. Thank you. I think
there was a gentleman at the back too

998
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,600
who wanted to ask a question.

999
01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:10,400
So the question was um with the
reference to the high quality uh output

1000
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:14,800
from these systems, why is the water not
then being reused elsewhere on the site?

1001
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,719
So like a gray water system for flushing
toilets and whatnot. I'm going to let

1002
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:22,000
Brad handle that one. Yeah. So the
output is technically feasible to do

1003
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:27,400
that. We've done that in a number of
situations where water is a bit more

1004
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:31,679
rare. Um particularly in northern
Alberta. Um so we have remote

1005
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:35,280
communities where they actually haul in
water. Um they use the water, the dirty

1006
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:39,760
water, then they have to haul it back
out. So we put treatment systems in

1007
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:42,880
minimize um what they're pulling what
they're, you know, hauling out, but also

1008
01:26:41,199 --> 01:26:46,080
what what they're reusing. So putting it
through purple pipe, which allows them

1009
01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:50,719
to to flush toilets and that sort of
thing. um the infrastructure required to

1010
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:55,280
do that and the fees and and if you
compare a cost analysis so that where

1011
01:26:52,719 --> 01:26:59,520
you have water in a well that's already
been you know it's it's potable uh to

1012
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:04,000
the extent that maybe you have to put a
UV on it um it it just makes more sense

1013
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:11,199
to use that water um there's less
permitting there's less other uh issues

1014
01:27:08,719 --> 01:27:16,239
okay so so sorry just one second Abby is
going to bring a mic to you because they

1015
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:21,040
just can't hear you online without
Go ahead. Yeah, sorry. So, you mentioned

1016
01:27:18,719 --> 01:27:25,080
the water that you are going to be using
is coming from the lake. I think that

1017
01:27:23,679 --> 01:27:31,280
was your
comment. And so, if you're treating lake

1018
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:37,280
water for domestic use, why can't you
treat your effluent the same way for

1019
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:44,280
your same domestic use instead of just
discharging that waste water back into

1020
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:44,280
the east basin?

1021
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:51,520
So you want me to talk to that? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Just from a technical

1022
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:59,520
standpoint on the actual effluent uh or
the output is is yes, you can do that.

1023
01:27:54,800 --> 01:28:06,239
Um but there's also um environmental
approval requirements for doing that and

1024
01:28:02,239 --> 01:28:10,159
certain areas are less uh interested in
doing that. So uh you can get it, you

1025
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:15,280
could go through the permitting process
and get that, but it would take um more

1026
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:23,360
work. um studies and to to prove that
that's okay. And it's more based around

1027
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:29,040
it being um reused for um like it can be
reused for reuse water that's not for

1028
01:28:26,159 --> 01:28:33,560
drinking. To to be clear, that's this is
this does not produce drinking water

1029
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:39,840
unless you do another level of of
polishing. And even at doing that,

1030
01:28:36,239 --> 01:28:45,760
there's um permitting required for that.
and and that's not something that would

1031
01:28:41,679 --> 01:28:49,840
be, you know, seen as as needed. So, it
wouldn't be approved.

1032
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:55,440
All right. Just so that you understand
that effluent that's going into the East

1033
01:28:52,080 --> 01:29:00,639
Basin is our drinking water also that
we're using for our domestic use. My

1034
01:28:58,239 --> 01:29:04,760
next question would be in the case of
the public school

1035
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:10,400
installation, why
not have that waste

1036
01:29:07,159 --> 01:29:16,560
water put down into a leeching bed down
by the train station

1037
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:21,440
site. So it doesn't go into the lake at
all, any of your effluent.

1038
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:25,440
So that that those certainly are
possibilities and that's something the

1039
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:30,000
environmental study would look at. So,
we haven't we haven't done the full

1040
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:33,440
environmental study for that site. Um,
so where we're going to get the water

1041
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:39,360
from and where the water is going to go
to is is still yet to actually be

1042
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:43,760
determined. And and but you're right, if
if part of the design for the Sharpet

1043
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:47,760
Lake school site were to want to take
some of the gray water and reuse it in

1044
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:50,719
the building again for some reason,
that's certainly that's a design

1045
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:54,800
possibility and something that just
would have to be considered as part of

1046
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:59,040
the approvals process.
All right, just on that same subject

1047
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:05,000
though, um drawing the water from the
west basin, how would you contend with

1048
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:10,480
zebra muzzle buildup on your water
intake? Sort of like things like in on

1049
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:16,960
Lake Ontario, I understand they use huge
chlorination systems to

1050
01:30:13,719 --> 01:30:20,520
mitigate zebra muscle and other wild
life buildup.

1051
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:27,760
So the intake design would be done by
the consultant engineer that's designing

1052
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:31,840
the wastewater plant. Um we don't design
intake um points but so I can't speak to

1053
01:30:30,159 --> 01:30:36,880
that exactly what technology they're
using there. Um but yeah we would need a

1054
01:30:34,719 --> 01:30:44,639
way to get that influent like that clean
water or that water in initially. Yeah.

1055
01:30:41,679 --> 01:30:50,800
Another question. uh your operator that
would be operating that

1056
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:57,199
system would he be on site or is that
all computer controlled and controlled

1057
01:30:53,400 --> 01:31:01,360
by alarm systems and so on?
No. So the operator has a a minimum

1058
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:06,320
requirement of of hours on site
typically 12 hours a week uh that they

1059
01:31:03,679 --> 01:31:11,040
need to be there. So they would uh be
doing their their routine work that's

1060
01:31:08,639 --> 01:31:15,199
required by the ECA but also required by
the O andM of the equipment that that's

1061
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:18,719
that's supplied and so they would be
doing all that documentation. In

1062
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:22,000
addition to that there is communications
to the plant at all times

1063
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:31,360
24/7. Okay, we're closing in on the 7:30
mark and I know we had promised to get

1064
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:36,560
people off home but I see we've got
another question at the back there. So

1065
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:40,480
Abby will share the mic with you. Um a
couple of questions. You So this is

1066
01:31:38,639 --> 01:31:45,440
strictly a wastewater system, but the
whole concept behind it is that it can

1067
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:49,920
service multiple units which brings
density. But if that's the case for

1068
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:53,840
wastewater, what is the plan to service
domestic water at that quantity? Because

1069
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:58,800
you're comparing this communal
wastewater system to a personal septic

1070
01:31:56,719 --> 01:32:02,560
system. Well, for those of us that have
a septic system, we have a well that

1071
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:06,960
services our dwellings. So, if you're
going to bring in a communal wastewater

1072
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:11,520
system, how are you servicing that many
residences or that many dwellings for

1073
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:14,960
water because presumably it's not a
single well.

1074
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:19,120
So, on on the drinking water side of
things, I didn't touch on um that

1075
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:24,480
technology tonight um but happy to do
that anytime. Uh so, drinking water uh

1076
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:27,920
is is regulated again very strictly by
the Ministry of Environment. There is a

1077
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:32,639
drinking water standard that needs to be
hit. Um there's technologies to go from

1078
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:37,120
whatever that source water is. It could
be a well, could be a communal well, it

1079
01:32:34,719 --> 01:32:43,040
could be a lake, a river. As long as
there's adequate um flow and enough uh

1080
01:32:40,159 --> 01:32:47,520
supply, that is all determined by the
environmental assessment. And then from

1081
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:51,520
there, the system is designed based on
the influent water and even

1082
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:56,719
considerations of seasonal flow because
sometimes you might have more algae or

1083
01:32:54,000 --> 01:33:00,560
more uh organic growth in the spring or
summer. So those things are all part of

1084
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:04,719
that study and cons and consistency. And
then it goes through a design a custom

1085
01:33:02,639 --> 01:33:09,040
water treatment plant to treat that
source water to produce the the very

1086
01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:13,520
strict effluent that's required for
drinking water standards on communal

1087
01:33:11,239 --> 01:33:17,280
systems. Aren't we missing half the
conversation? Because we can't have

1088
01:33:15,679 --> 01:33:22,040
residential dwellings with just waste
water and no domestic, right? So from a

1089
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:26,800
cost perspective, we actually need two
systems to run whatever these

1090
01:33:24,639 --> 01:33:30,800
communities or dwellings are. You can't
have one without the other. Correct. You

1091
01:33:29,440 --> 01:33:36,880
can have communal you can have
individual wells that that are per home.

1092
01:33:34,719 --> 01:33:42,480
Um you can also have a communal system
that does the treatment. So depending on

1093
01:33:39,679 --> 01:33:46,320
um the setting the situation we've had,
you know, where potable water is

1094
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:50,000
available by the the local municipality.
In this case, obviously not, but that

1095
01:33:48,159 --> 01:33:54,960
sometime is the sit sometimes is the
situation. Um, other times it's um wells

1096
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:58,800
per home and then other times it's a
communal well or some sort of drinking

1097
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:02,800
water system. But yes, you're correct.
There's another half to this that is um

1098
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:06,960
the drinking water side. So I I'm just
going to add a little bit to that answer

1099
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:11,360
if I could. So uh on the provincial side
um technically from a planning

1100
01:34:09,159 --> 01:34:15,199
perspective what Brad's page is called
partial services, right? So you have

1101
01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:20,560
private services for for water and
public for for the sewage or vice versa.

1102
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:24,159
and that generally is frowned upon now
in terms of development. So I think what

1103
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:27,760
you're talking about is yes, we focused
on the wastewater tonight because we

1104
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:33,120
know that people are very concerned
about the output and what that does to

1105
01:34:30,239 --> 01:34:37,199
groundwater and lake water. But but yes,
so any development going forward and and

1106
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:40,400
this is a decision that the utility is
going to have to make, but generally

1107
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:44,719
they would operate both a water
treatment system for drinking and and

1108
01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:48,800
the wastewater treatment. So, so the
water coming in comes in for the

1109
01:34:46,719 --> 01:34:53,120
drinking water and is what comes out of
the taps and then the the wastewater

1110
01:34:51,199 --> 01:34:57,440
treatment is what is then going back out
to wherever that output is going to be.

1111
01:34:55,440 --> 01:35:02,400
So you in all likelihood you're right
there there's two parts to the equation

1112
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:09,440
and they're working in tandem. And then
this MBR system is it proprietary?

1113
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:14,960
Uh no MBR is not proprietary. There's um
hundreds of membrane manufacturers. Uh

1114
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:19,440
we chose the Violia Z500S which is this
model and only because we've been

1115
01:35:16,719 --> 01:35:23,600
testing it for about seven years and uh
it's the best performing membrane that

1116
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:29,679
we've found. Question you mentioned
about how whoever's on the system will

1117
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:34,880
pay into it in terms of their monthly
cost based on consumption whatever

1118
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:39,040
measurement that is cubic meter square
feet whatever. But

1119
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:42,760
then you also mentioned that there's
like an input into that for replacement

1120
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:48,880
cost built into
it. Is that correct? Yes. So typically

1121
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:53,120
the the water utility um handles that
calculation based on the water rate. So

1122
01:35:50,719 --> 01:35:56,320
the service rate um has you know the
ongoing operational cost because

1123
01:35:54,639 --> 01:36:01,600
remember that guy person has to girl or
guy has to go to site um 12 hours a week

1124
01:35:59,920 --> 01:36:05,520
um make those reports. So there's
there's cost there, but then there's

1125
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:11,440
also that future cost of replacing the
membranes every seven to 10 years. So

1126
01:36:07,679 --> 01:36:14,880
that's all built into the the rate
like cost increase because from what

1127
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:18,639
what you're saying Sorry, can we just
wait? Sorry, can we wait for the mic?

1128
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:22,639
Sorry. Yeah. So you said it's been
around roughly what 20 years give or

1129
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:27,440
take. The technology has been around
since the '9s. Yes. And the the service

1130
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:31,440
life being 40 years. So, have has it
been proven that like the cost going in

1131
01:36:29,679 --> 01:36:35,199
is enough to sustain the cost of a
replacement given that presumably that's

1132
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:39,760
going to increase significantly over
time?

1133
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:45,679
Sorry, the the plant has a service life
of roughly 3540 years. And that really

1134
01:36:42,159 --> 01:36:49,920
comes down to the um building structure
itself, how how well it's maintained,

1135
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:56,159
lots of variables that go into that, no
different than your home. Um, so the the

1136
01:36:52,719 --> 01:36:59,280
the life of the equipment has a meantime
before failure that's indicated by the

1137
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:03,760
manufacturer. For example, a pump has a
life to it. That's all taken into the

1138
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:08,639
calculation based on what the acrrual
cost will need to be set aside for um

1139
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:13,199
the rate. So to say that the rate would
never go up would be incorrect because

1140
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:19,239
you know we have inflation. So that is
is obviously going to be built into

1141
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:19,239
those rates as as time goes on.

1142
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:26,800
Thanks. Um, Sonia, I want to ask about
the approval

1143
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:31,440
process kind of locally. So, if there's
a development that comes that wants to

1144
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:37,119
look at doing a development, does that
does that sit with the the new service

1145
01:37:34,719 --> 01:37:40,320
board to say that it's feasible? Or is
it the still the municipality and the

1146
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:44,360
county that says, you know, that's the
development we want in that area and

1147
01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:50,119
servicing. This is an option that the
this the corporation can look at because

1148
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:57,679
then part two of that would
be if you do a 20 lot development and

1149
01:37:54,239 --> 01:38:01,520
only five homes get built, is a service
corporation then running at a loss

1150
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:04,639
trying to look after after those homes
until it's fully built out because it

1151
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:09,440
could take a while for some of those
lots to get built out. Yeah. So I guess

1152
01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:15,400
the first so to answer the first part of
the question um the decision on

1153
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:19,920
development in terms of like planning
applications are if if it's if it's been

1154
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:25,600
a township decision it's still a
township decision the the public utility

1155
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:29,040
so far municipal services the intent is
they would be treated like another

1156
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:32,800
agency right so if somebody is
interested in developing on communal

1157
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:36,480
then we want a representative from the
utility company to come to the

1158
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:41,119
pre-application meeting to meet with the
developer to explain to them what's

1159
01:38:38,639 --> 01:38:44,560
possible, what the regulations are, how
the process would work, but ultimately

1160
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:48,560
the decision on the development would
still be the townships. Now, with

1161
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:53,920
respect to the second part of the
question, um, that's a good question. I

1162
01:38:51,119 --> 01:38:58,560
I'm I'm not sure. Ultimately, the
development is still up to the developer

1163
01:38:56,800 --> 01:39:01,600
to build out. And I think what would
happen, and Joe maybe correct me if I'm

1164
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:05,679
wrong, because the utility is still sort
of figuring out these details, but if

1165
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:09,320
you're building 20 homes, then you're
actually coming to the county right now

1166
01:39:07,440 --> 01:39:15,040
for approval for what's called a plan of
subdivision. And we would have within

1167
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:20,320
that subdivision agreement clauses that
talk about when the public utility takes

1168
01:39:17,480 --> 01:39:25,280
over those systems. And if there's
supposed to be 20 homes and there's only

1169
01:39:22,440 --> 01:39:28,880
five, then the developer is going to
continue to own and need to take care of

1170
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:32,320
that system until they've built it out.
So, they're going to have to do their

1171
01:39:30,239 --> 01:39:36,080
costbenefit analysis very closely
because, you know, the utility is not

1172
01:39:34,480 --> 01:39:39,520
going to take on something and then be
the developer and try and find people or

1173
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:44,360
homes to be built on these lots. That's
not what the utility is is here for.

1174
01:39:44,719 --> 01:39:49,119
So, so now I have a question about the
Sharet Lake site specifically because I

1175
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:54,440
know a lot of people are worried about
what could potentially happen to Sharet

1176
01:39:50,639 --> 01:39:59,520
Lake. So, I guess in in your
system, I don't think we got a good

1177
01:39:56,480 --> 01:40:03,679
answer on what is the fail safe to
ensure that nothing happens if we're

1178
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:07,920
discharging back into the lake because I
think we only get to mess that up once.

1179
01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:11,119
So, I'm I'm gonna answer and then Brad,
you can tell me if I got this right or

1180
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:15,679
not. So my understanding is that
everything that Brad talked about if

1181
01:40:12,639 --> 01:40:20,000
absolutely everything failed that
nothing would go out to the lake or a

1182
01:40:18,159 --> 01:40:24,800
septic bed or wherever that output is
designed to be. It would go into a

1183
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:28,639
holding tank and it would then I mean
how quickly 5 hours you would have

1184
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:31,760
somebody on site probably there would
have to be regularly it would have to be

1185
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:35,840
fixed and then it would have to be up
and running again and the holding tank

1186
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:39,280
would have to be pumped but it would be
it would shut itself down. It would not

1187
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:42,639
output to wherever the output is,
whether it's one of the basins of the

1188
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:46,480
lake, whether it's a wetland somewhere,
whether it's a septic bed, it just would

1189
01:40:44,639 --> 01:40:50,960
shut down and it would divert to a
holding tank.

1190
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:54,639
That is correct. Yeah. So, the exactly
what you said. So, it gets held away is

1191
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:58,080
the is the only option. So, it can't go
through the membrane because the plant's

1192
01:40:55,840 --> 01:41:01,440
down. Then then trucks have to come in
and remove the sewage. Yeah. You hear I

1193
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:04,480
know people have heard horror stories
about like in in cities. So, for

1194
01:41:03,119 --> 01:41:07,119
instance, in Kingston, there's a lot of
areas in the downtown of Kingston that

1195
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:11,600
still have what are called combined
sewers. So, that's where your your waste

1196
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:14,719
water and your storm water actually get
combined into the same pipe. And when

1197
01:41:13,199 --> 01:41:18,560
you have a major rain event, it
overwhelms it and stuff gets dumped out

1198
01:41:16,639 --> 01:41:22,800
into the river. So, there's no there's
nothing combined here. There there's

1199
01:41:20,639 --> 01:41:25,520
there's no way for it to get where it's
supposed to go. If it's not running

1200
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:30,199
through the system properly, the system
shuts down and it diverts to a holding

1201
01:41:27,199 --> 01:41:30,199
tank.

1202
01:41:30,239 --> 01:41:36,159
There's one at the back and then the
gentleman in the white. Thank you. And I

1203
01:41:34,159 --> 01:41:40,040
I apologize if this was answered at the
presentation because I was late getting

1204
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:46,239
here. But for the Charlotte Lake site
specifically, has an environmental

1205
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:51,520
assessment process started yet? And what
is the cost of that? And who will bear

1206
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:57,719
that cost? Will that be a municipal cost
or will that be borne by a utility or

1207
01:41:54,719 --> 01:41:57,719
developer?

1208
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:04,320
So to answer, so the the environmental
assessment process has not started yet.

1209
01:42:02,239 --> 01:42:08,719
And again, that's something the township
is going to have to decide on as a

1210
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:13,040
council. Um that the environmental
specimen process right now is

1211
01:42:10,280 --> 01:42:17,520
unfortunately very very lengthy. So it's
actually to the benefit to get started

1212
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:21,760
sooner rather than later and then
perhaps recoup costs from a developer.

1213
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:27,679
But I know right now we're actively
looking um at funding applications like

1214
01:42:24,639 --> 01:42:32,480
grants to help pay for it so that it is
not something that the township is

1215
01:42:29,119 --> 01:42:32,480
paying completely out of pocket

1216
01:42:36,679 --> 01:42:42,960
for. Thank you Sonia. My question is
towards the end of your presentation you

1217
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:47,280
talked about getting public input so
that the council can decide where we

1218
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:50,320
would like to to put if and where we
would like to put communal services.

1219
01:42:48,719 --> 01:42:56,880
what's going what are the next steps?
So, how can people uh be able to give

1220
01:42:53,440 --> 01:43:01,280
their feedback um going forward?
That is that's great segue. Thank you,

1221
01:42:58,719 --> 01:43:05,360
Councelor Gaudy. Um so, so yeah, so this
is really just sort of the first part of

1222
01:43:02,719 --> 01:43:08,719
the conversation in terms of what's
going to happen with the uh with the

1223
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:13,360
official plan in terms of this
conversation. If you want to reach out

1224
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:18,159
uh in the interm, I've left my business
card over there as well as um I think

1225
01:43:15,440 --> 01:43:22,080
Brad has left his as well. Um but if you
talk to him about the official plan,

1226
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:26,560
he's only going to send it to me. So um
there's also the engage fratnack site

1227
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:29,280
has like a question and answer uh um
function on it as well if you have

1228
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:33,679
questions you want to submit or you can
email me directly. But I think in terms

1229
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:38,639
of a next step what we are going to do
is we're going to go away and we we need

1230
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:42,159
to come up with sort of a draft set of
policies because I think a lot of people

1231
01:43:40,639 --> 01:43:45,760
like I could ask you here tonight, what
does everybody want? and you're kind of

1232
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:50,159
like I don't really know because I'm not
a planner and and I don't write planning

1233
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:54,800
stuff and and that's completely fair. So
I think what we would do is come up with

1234
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:58,560
a set of policies that would address all
of those bullet points that I told all

1235
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:03,920
the various scenarios and then what we
would do is we would then uh publish

1236
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:07,119
that and have a public meeting and so it
would be published well in advance of

1237
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:10,960
the public meeting. People could look at
what the proposed policies are. um we

1238
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:14,000
could have another meeting like this
where I could say okay this is why I

1239
01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:18,080
wrote this what does everybody think and
we would accept feedback in terms of how

1240
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:22,800
that would work uh for the various areas
so that's that's probably our next step

1241
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:27,760
is to just to have that public meeting
and just to add to that whatever you put

1242
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:31,520
on engage front neck uh we need the same
thing that we can put on our website as

1243
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:35,239
well
yeah and so we we'll certainly share

1244
01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:40,800
that with the township
yeah the gentleman the white I think

1245
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:44,679
Abby had another question. Oh,
one at the back and then

1246
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:53,360
hi just a follow-up question to u the
questions around failure of the plant.

1247
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:57,440
Um I know we've been talking
specifically about failures within the

1248
01:44:55,440 --> 01:45:02,320
plant but the plant is part of a system
which includes the piping etc to get the

1249
01:44:59,679 --> 01:45:06,639
effluent to the plant. So my questions
are around um you know failures of that

1250
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:10,800
infrastructure.
Will there be any monitoring of the

1251
01:45:08,719 --> 01:45:15,119
quality of the water in Charbet Lake?
Because if there is failure in that

1252
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:19,600
infrastructure to get to the plant, the
water tables within the area are

1253
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:26,000
connected to uh Charet Lake and all the
aquifers that um also supply the various

1254
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:32,080
wells in the area that would be serviced
by the communal services. So are there

1255
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:35,679
plans in place to test the water quality
to ensure that you know there

1256
01:45:34,159 --> 01:45:40,440
potentially could be a failure within
the infrastructure? And the second part

1257
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:45,600
of that question is who owns that
infrastructure? Is that infrastructure

1258
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:50,560
the piping etc owned by the utility or
is it owned by the township?

1259
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:57,719
Do you want to answer the pipe question
first? Sure. Um so the the conveyance

1260
01:45:54,880 --> 01:46:02,480
system or pipe collection system um is
typically installed um close these are

1261
01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:07,840
these are new developments so they're
not tied in with storm water so they are

1262
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:10,800
are closed pipe but um monitoring is
determined by the ministry of

1263
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:13,920
environment so the environmental
assessment would determine you know the

1264
01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:17,600
feasibility of the collection system
would be all part of that uh the

1265
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:22,560
technology as far as how the water's
being being treated and then and the

1266
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:25,520
output um and then what other um fail
safes need to be put in that'll be all

1267
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:30,639
controlled by the Ministry of
Environment and and they have that say.

1268
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:34,880
So if they want monitoring of the lake
then then then that gets put on.

1269
01:46:33,679 --> 01:46:37,520
So, and I think in terms of the
ownership of the pipes, I mean, that is

1270
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:40,400
something that would have to be worked
out with the municipality, the

1271
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:44,480
developer, and the utility company,
right? And if it's something that the

1272
01:46:41,679 --> 01:46:48,560
utility uh company is going to own, then
there are mechanis legal mechanisms like

1273
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:53,520
an easement, right? If we had to cross a
property or something in order to get to

1274
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:57,520
wherever the output goes. Um, so there's
there's I can't give you one sole answer

1275
01:46:55,760 --> 01:47:01,600
because it's going to depend on the site
and how it's all going to work. Um, but

1276
01:46:59,679 --> 01:47:06,000
that gets all worked out into whatever
agreements go on the

1277
01:47:03,159 --> 01:47:10,560
site. Although, just to add to that, the
uh corporation right now is talking

1278
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:14,840
about who would own those pipes and
we're leaning towards the fact that that

1279
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:18,960
should belong to the municipal service
corporation. It's part of a system

1280
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:21,960
instead of it belonging to the
municipality.

1281
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:28,719
Sorry, the gentleman in white behind
you've been waiting for a while. Thank

1282
01:47:26,639 --> 01:47:34,320
you, Brad. I'm I'm going to start with
yourself on this one. Uh we are hearing

1283
01:47:32,159 --> 01:47:39,840
uh throughout the news of a lot of
efforts by both the Conservative

1284
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:46,159
government of Ontario and the recent
Mark Mark Carney um election that there

1285
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:53,280
is going to be considerable pressure to
build homes. So, I'm wondering, are you

1286
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:57,920
aware anywhere in Ontario where we've
been able to use your systems to get

1287
01:47:55,840 --> 01:48:04,400
some dollars out of the either the
federal or the provincial governments to

1288
01:48:02,239 --> 01:48:10,560
uh get this going and to be able to
build homes quicker and stay online with

1289
01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:15,800
the politicians?
That's a great question.

1290
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:22,960
um a long one uh for an answer but uh
just to say that the f sorry the the

1291
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:27,239
current structure of our province is
centralized and a lot of the dollars I

1292
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:33,560
think there was
1.54 billion that was million billion

1293
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:37,040
that was um given out in grants to
municipalities there were some rules

1294
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:41,360
around that you had to have an existing
facility um there there was I I don't

1295
01:48:40,239 --> 01:48:44,480
know all the details cuz I wasn't
applying for those grants. But that's uh

1296
01:48:43,119 --> 01:48:49,440
some of the information I got back from
some of the um mayors and counselors. Um

1297
01:48:47,199 --> 01:48:54,719
but essentially a lot of that money went
to centralized infrastructure. So pipe

1298
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:58,760
expansions, plant expansions, and not
decentralized. So um from a

1299
01:48:57,040 --> 01:49:04,000
decentralized standpoint, you know,
we're we're we're it's been a bit of an

1300
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:08,639
uphill battle for the last 20 years to
be honest as far as you know, we have 40

1301
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:12,560
systems in Ontario. Um, and it's taken
us 20 years to do that because of the

1302
01:49:10,159 --> 01:49:17,520
regulatory process. Um, and most of
those are all bought by developers, not

1303
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:21,440
not public money. And and in the US, for
example, in Colorado, one area of

1304
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:28,320
Colorado in the last two years have
installed 18 systems. So the US, I don't

1305
01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:32,320
like to say it, but they're a bit more
advanced in the decentralized component

1306
01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:35,040
of of being able to treat water. They've
been doing it for decades. they're

1307
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:38,960
actually at the point where they're
replacing systems that are end of life

1308
01:49:37,440 --> 01:49:45,560
um that they've been doing it that long.
So, um Ontario's money has been

1309
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:45,560
centralized publicly.

1310
01:49:49,199 --> 01:49:59,040
So I guess the the question then becomes
to the county and to our

1311
01:49:55,560 --> 01:50:06,360
council, is there an opportunity to be a
leader to go to our member of parliament

1312
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:15,199
and our MPP and say we would like to
grow. Can you guys jump in? Mark Connie

1313
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:19,920
wants to do a wartime type of building.
Do we have the infrastructure? Can we

1314
01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:23,840
get this done?
Joe or Fran, do you want to talk about

1315
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:29,679
what's been I'll just mentioned that we
have been to the Ministry of Environment

1316
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:34,159
probably between Joe's probably been
there seven, eight times. I've been

1317
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:39,840
there about five times where we talk to
the ministers and tell them we need

1318
01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:46,159
help. This is this EA is going to kill
us and all this stuff. And so far they

1319
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:51,119
nod their heads, they smile. It looks
like we got somewhere, but when we get

1320
01:50:48,480 --> 01:50:56,159
back home, no letters come to say that
they have understood and are prepared to

1321
01:50:53,920 --> 01:51:02,239
work with us, but we're not giving up.
We're still going to be doing that,

1322
01:50:57,679 --> 01:51:09,440
right, Joe? Yeah. um your your municipal
leaders have been very active in this um

1323
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:14,639
comm communicating to provincial MPPPS
look you want more housing built we've

1324
01:51:12,719 --> 01:51:18,960
got a solution for building different
forms of housing in rural eastern

1325
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:22,440
Ontario that the model that we've come
up with in front is easily transferable

1326
01:51:21,440 --> 01:51:27,520
to other
jurisdictions all we do we want you to

1327
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:34,080
help us invest in this and I think
there's been um request to actually have

1328
01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:38,880
monies from the province to help the
utility or to help fund these projects.

1329
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:43,040
I can tell you that South Front Knac
made an application for the housing

1330
01:51:40,639 --> 01:51:46,639
money that Brad mentioned. It was a
perfect situation in terms of they had

1331
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:50,719
their all their ducks lined up, but they
weren't successful. And the mayor of

1332
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:54,639
South Front has reached out to MPP and
said, "You got to explain this to us cuz

1333
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:59,119
we we're trying to help you build the
housing supply. We've got we've got the

1334
01:51:57,679 --> 01:52:04,159
perfect solution to build different
forms of rural housing. We need you to

1335
01:52:01,280 --> 01:52:09,280
to recognize this and fund it. So, I
mean, I I do congratulate our counselors

1336
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:12,719
for pushing.
Uh I think at this point we're about 15

1337
01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:16,239
minutes past when we said we would end.
So, I do want to wrap up so that people

1338
01:52:14,480 --> 01:52:19,599
can go home and Aby's going to have to I
think shut things down online. But I

1339
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:23,119
just we will stay behind. If you have
more questions, please feel free to stay

1340
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:26,800
and chat with us. Um, but just in
general, thank you for taking the time

1341
01:52:25,199 --> 01:52:31,360
uh to come out and speak with us tonight
and to, you know, for those that joined

1342
01:52:28,800 --> 01:52:34,960
online. Um, as I said, please, if you're
interested in learning more or being

1343
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:37,840
participating in the next steps, make
sure you leave your name and your email

1344
01:52:36,239 --> 01:52:42,239
address or your mailing address before
you leave uh so that we can get in touch

1345
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:47,119
with you. And certainly, um, all the
slides you saw tonight will, uh, be put

1346
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:49,920
up as a PDF and we'll also send out the
link to the YouTube video if you want to

1347
01:52:48,639 --> 01:52:54,760
share it with all of your friends or
watch it again. So, thank you again.