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On behalf of the entire town council, thank you for joining us. The council holds business meetings on the second and fourth Mondays of most months, and public hearings on the third monday. Public comment, always welcome at these meetings, giving you a chance to provide input on council decisions.

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In addition, the council holds a monthly work session at the Chapel Hill Public Library that is also open to the public. Please check the council calendar on our website for the most up-to-date schedule.

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Much about work is driven by a Chapel Hill 2020 plan.

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Our communities' comprehensive plan developed from the good ideas and input of thousands of residents and communities stakeholders like you.

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Our town council goals stand from the themes of that 2020 plan, themes like creative place for everyone,

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that we advance through policies and initiatives that promote social economic diversity,

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help integrate UNC students into our community and advance the interests of citizens of all ages.

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We support community prosperity with the focus on economic development strategies that enhance

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the town's open-to-business initiative.

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Open-to-business is successful programs are aimed at growing a vibrant business community

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and nurturing the increasing number of entrepreneurs and start-up companies who call

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step-by-home.

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And in keeping with the town's commitment to a sustainable future, we strive to facilitate

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getting around by providing a well-connected transportation network that allows people to get

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need to go conveniently and safely.

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One of they choose to walk, bike, ride, a fair-free,

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chapel hotel, transit bus or drive.

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To develop good places in new spaces means that we are strategically investing in downtown

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with improvements to Rosemary Street, creative art offerings and options to make parking easier

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and more convenient.

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And of course, at the heart of all our decisions to our deep commitment to nurturing

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our community and strengthening town-gown relations through close collaboration with the University

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North Carolina and UNC Health Care Systems.

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We welcome your input on how we can ensure that Chapel Hill is a place for everyone, and

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we encourage you to be active in town government.

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The town website has all the information you need about how to view the meeting's live

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on TV or the internet and links are subscribed to our weekly e-newsletter.

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Thank you for joining us.

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Working together, we can transform ideas into action.

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Good evening. Good evening and welcome to the December 5th Chapel Hill Town Council meeting.

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We have a couple of special events tonight. We're going to start off with our wonderful pack here.

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We have Pack 39 from Chapel Hill and they usually meet at the University United Methodist Church

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and they are going to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

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So could we all please stand while they lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Thank you.

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Okay, the flag is over here.

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Why are you guys here?

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There we go.

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All right, can you guys start?

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Thank you all for leading us in that. We appreciate you being here and learning about town government. It's awesome.

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Okay, I welcome out to all of you in the audience that are joining us here tonight and out to all those who are viewing us from TV land.

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I have several announcements to get us started off with.

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But the first one is I'm going to ask Brenton Hodg to come down here, please. Come on down, Brenton.

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I don't know if I know the council knows who Brenton is, but we'll get him down here.

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Bretton is one of our security guards who takes very good care of us and we are very excited to say that he is graduating this semester from NC Central and we're very proud of him.

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He studies and works very hard.

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You don't usually get to be in the meeting, so I thought we'd bring you in and say congratulations.

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We're very, very proud of you and you have done an just an exemplary job of making sure we stay safe and we're supposed to be.

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and taking care of people who come in and out of our meetings. Thank you so much for all

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your congratulations again.

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Okay. This morning, several of us were at the BORCH event. A BORCH is a wonderful

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community organization founded by volunteers. It was the Anniversary 7th year anniversary

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of this wonderful organization that collects groceries from around our community,

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sorts them and helps deliver them to our neighbors and families who need a little extra to get by.

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They also have this wonderful book that was written by children for children called planting hope.

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It is on sale over at Weaver Street and on the porch website. If you'd like to get there,

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it's beautifully illustrated. They did a lot of work with fabrics and colors. The story is

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amazing about planting the seed of hope and I don't want to give the story away. So I'll let you get

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and read it. But hope blossomed. And it's a wonderful book and all the proceeds go to help out

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porch. So thank you to them for being very involved in our community and being part of the

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wonderful community that tries to help everyone.

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Let's see. We'll go to there's a meeting this Tuesday

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night tomorrow night over in the Hargraze Community Center about the Amnesty station concept plan.

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It's a community-wide meeting, everyone's welcome to attend.

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I know there will be some council members there.

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I will not be able to attend because I will be in coming back from Washington where I'm

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speaking about our food for the summer program in front of a national audience about summer

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feeding food programs across our country, which is very exciting, especially if it helps feed

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more kids.

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We have to holiday parade this Saturday at 10 a.m. downtown Chapel Hill.

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Look for the bus notices of rerouting of traffic and buses, but it's a wonderful celebration.

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We welcome all of us to come out and celebrate the holiday season and it's a wonderful parade to be part of that.

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I just an update for those of you.

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We have pulled item number nine on our agenda, the library, internet policy, our wonderful library services director is out ill

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and she will come back and do this presentation for us in January so that item has been pulled

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for this evening.

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And update, almost all of us have done our racial equity training by the end of the year,

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the goal you aspire to reach for.

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We have one more to finish up the class, and that's scheduled for January, so congratulations

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and good work council, and thank you for encouraging us to do that.

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And Roger did his as well, so a lot of people have done their racial equity training.

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We have some great parking initiatives going on right now.

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It is to encourage more customers and patrons and visitors and whoever to come down town.

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We have free parking on Saturdays and Sundays downtown for the month of December.

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And we have also created 24 new parking, hourly parking places behind the courtyard area.

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You access that offer over some street so look for that and we have created some more spaces

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and we're continuing to create more spaces to help people have find a place to park and have a

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good experience downtown. So that's out there. We've had a lot of interest in our tree situation.

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I encourage people to go to our website. We are working on a tree replacement program. We have a lot

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trees out there that have had some health issues and the

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A, just some of them, and we're working with each one, please know that we have staff on hand that

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evaluates each individual tree in the situation in the needs, and it is our intent to replace

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trees and keep that tree canopy that we all love downtown and around the town. I think that's

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it for right now. We have several things on our agenda this evening, and then the council takes

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break from meetings until January 9th. So please be aware of that. Okay, so we will start with

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petitions from the public and know we have at least one person ready to sign up. Peggy or you

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coming up to show your petition.

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And again we're asking everyone. We're asking anyone who wants to

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speak to come sign up with our clerk and we ask you to hit the timer for us. For your three minutes

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over here when you're ready to start.

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I'm supposed to push the green button for us.

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There you go.

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Okay, better start.

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Okay.

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Where we plugged in, ran.

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There we go.

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I'm making remarks for a Proclamation and Resolution and the Proclamation is not at all controversial.

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I hope the resolution may take the members time to consider.

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I request Pam Haminger to make a proclamation as she did last year for the annual reading

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of the Bill of Rights at noon Thursday, December 15th, peace and justice plaza.

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This event is sponsored by the Orange County Bill of Rights Defense Committee and Orange

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County Peace Coalition.

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We invite the council and the public to participate in reading the ten amendments added

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to the Constitution before ratification by the states in 1791.

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Former North Carolina State Senator Eleanor Canaryard will make some remarks on freedom

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of speech, first amendment, regarding freedom of speech, as I said.

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The Green News will also sing appropriate to these difficult times and in keeping with a

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I am requesting the Chapel Hill Town Council to consider passing a resolution and support of the North Carolina Commission of Inquiry and Torture.

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Related to freedom from unusual punishment, actually touching amendments 4 5 6 7 and especially 8 as well as international treaties.

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I sent the mayor and the Council copies of the Resolution to be sent into the Carberal, Alderman and Orange County Commissioners also and put some copies on the back table if people wish to take those resolutions that I put there.

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I believe the resolution and support of the North Carolina Commission of Enquiry and Torture is an appropriate civil rights matter

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to address on Bill of Rights Day.

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Deborah Weissman, the UNC professor, who has vetted this resolution, thanks to Council

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for considering this important matter as we turn our attention to President Elect, who has

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voiced support for torture.

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I don't know how much time I have.

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I don't have enough time to read the resolution, but the resolution has been given to all

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council members and it's on the back table and I hope that Chapel Hill can take a stand on this

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resolution to support a North Carolina Commission of inquiry and torture. There's enough evidence

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and I presented more evidence to some of you about this. Thank you. Can you hit the off button

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of course the red button. There you go. I'm trying. Thank you and I will be there and I'm sure

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other council members will attend as well to do the read the bill of rights. Just to let council

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know I also reached out to Mayor LaValle about both topics. We're going to do a joint bill of

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rights reading together and work that allowed and I reached out to her about this torture resolution

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and our attorney, they both are want a little more time to look into this. So if council is willing,

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we'd like to refer this back to our attorney to give us more information and verification of

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all these things, then we could bring it back for January.

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We received and refer it to our staff, particularly the attorney, so that we can consider it

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for the next meeting in January.

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A second.

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It's been moved by Ms. Green, second of my Ms. Bell, any discussion?

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All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed, please raise your hand, nay. Motion is unanimous. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

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And we will be there for the bill of rights reading, and we will coordinate with Carbro and our attorney and get back to you on the resolution.

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Okay, the county commission. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any more petitions from the public?

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On items not on any comments on items not on the printed agenda.

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Okay, any announcements by Council members, Mr. Harrison?

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Well, this is not exactly an announcement.

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It's a personal statement.

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My mother passed away 22nd of November right before Thanksgiving.

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And I'm mentioned her to the general audience because she paid attention to this Council,

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not just because of me, but because she was interested in American politics as an immigrant.

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But 77 years ago, she came over to being exchange student at Furman University in Greenville,

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South Carolina.

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She went from right next to Paris in a city that was socialist, if not more, to Greenville,

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South Carolina, got her degree in political science at Furman University, and went to Duke

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University for graduate school because Carolina didn't offer anything, the Methodist clergy

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daughters, Duke did. That's why she ended up at Duke and they made her, Duke does things

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to their students. They made her be a French major, master's thesis, and to teach French.

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So she started teaching French in 1940 and kept it up either paid or is a volunteer into this

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century, so into seven decades.

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And she had a strong interest in this council not just because

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because of American politics, because she could interview me about the council, and, you know, she was my mother and a teacher, and she knew how to get the answers out of you.

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So, she knew a lot more about this council than anybody that age, certainly outside of Chapel Hill, of Carverro, and certainly more than anyone in the state of South Carolina by a lot.

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And she also knew, well, she knew about George, because George goes to France every so often,

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so I have to tell her about that.

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But she had two different people who said in the same language to me, she had a great run,

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a good run, and she was a friend of mine wrote, old friend of mine, and you were for many

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years.

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She said, oh, Adam, so sorry, the world already seems less civilized.

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She was a classy woman and I hope I got some of her good traits but thanks to colleagues

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particularly for sending condolences and I'm glad that she's an immigrant got

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welcome by America, took her a few hours to get to the country the first time but that happens

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to folks and I think that America is a place that she will be welcoming to immigrants as this table

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when those who married immigrants, this table.

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And as I said, as a sister, I'm glad she was our mother.

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We were very lucky in that regard.

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Well, thank you.

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Thank you.

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We do offer you and your family condolences.

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Mr. Santhiolo?

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It's best I can tell the weather Saturday for the Christmas parade

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is probably going to be in the height 30s at the time of the parade.

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In the visitor's bureau is going to be open and they're going to have cookies in one drink so people need to warm up.

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I think it'd be a great time if you haven't visited the visitor's bureau just to go in and see all the information they have and I think they'd be happy to welcome anyway.

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So bundle up and come get warm cocoa and cookies.

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Any other announcements?

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Okay, thank you.

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That brings us to the consent agenda.

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How, say we, it's been moved by Mr. Parker and second by Ms. Bell, any discussion about

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the consent agenda?

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All those in favor, please say aye, any opposed, please raise your hand, nay.

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Motion is unanimous.

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Thank you.

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You have an information item in your packet about the upcoming public hearing items and the

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petition status list, and just to mention, usually we roll out the petitions that have been

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available to be seen online, but they go into a different file further down so that only

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the active petitions will show up at the end of each season as we call it here.

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All right, that brings us to our first item on the discussion agenda to consider the proposed

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town acquisition of the American Legion property.

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Manager Stance will take us away.

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So, my name is Roger Stancele. I'm the town manager and I have a ten-slide presentation which

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would take about eight or ten minutes about the acquisition of the American Legion property. The

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seems like a great opportunity to accomplish something that could be beneficial and meet the

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proposal is as shown on this slide, is a purchase price of $7.9 million for the 35 acres

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of the American Legion property. It is the agreement proposes an installment purchase plan

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of three payments. So let me may say this again later, but let me also explain now

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the thinking behind those three payments. The first payment is for $3.6 million.

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The thinking behind that being the first payment is you are setting a target of 22 percent

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of your as your fund balance target. And in past years when you have had fund balance

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that went over that amount you would use it for dedicated capital purposes one time expenditures.

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So most recently you have used it to pay for the Rogers Road sewer construction and for

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meeting your OPEB liability.

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Later tonight we have a Rogers Road Agreement proposed for you to consider and that payment

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would be rolled into your annual budget.

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And based on your conversation in last year's budget you have now included an OPEB payment

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in your annual operating budget.

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So those needs no longer exist for funds that are over your target for your fund balance.

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So it's $3.6 million that we would be coming to you to recommend for capital expenditure

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or one time expended to or not an operating expended to it.

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So we use that as the first payment because all it takes to appropriate that money is

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an action by you.

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A vote by the council can appropriate that fund balance and make that $3.6 million available.

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Then there is of course the balance which we split into two payments.

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One do a year from closing and the second do two years from closing.

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My thinking was that that would give you a year to do some planning for that property, to decide

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how you want to use that property, to consider other partnerships and potential buyers,

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for portion of that property to meet other interests of the council, other goals of the council,

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especially the front part as it fronts on Legion Road, before you have to make a decision about where you get that money from.

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So, that money could come from a purchase by the front part of the property from somebody who wants to do something that's consistent with the council of goals.

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It could come from re-shuffling your priorities. There were funds approved in the bond referendum for parks and recreation land acquisition.

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You could reshuffle your priorities. You have the capacity to do that just spreading out how you spend your money.

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Then the American Legion, if this proposal is approved by you and by them, would want to go

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out by their replacement property, begin to plan for it, and build a place where they

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could move.

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So in our conversations with them, we figured that it's likely to take about three years

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for them to find the land by it, do the planning, build something.

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So, we, the proposal is that we, or the agreement that we have negotiated is to, they

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would continue to use the two buildings on the site for their purposes as they have been

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using it, including the land right around those buildings so that people could, if you've

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been to one of their events, or people were cooking out, or the antique show people were

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out in the areas, so they would use that land around the building as they have in the past.

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And we would immediately begin a strategic and master planning process to develop how the town wants to use all of that property.

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I'm sure that a great portion of it would be used for an extension of the park that faces on Ephesus Road.

244
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But there are other uses that you could possibly consider for the balance of the property.

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So we begin that master planning process, we'd engage with the schools to make sure that the

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park property was developed consistent with their plans and take that time to figure out

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how the rest of the property would be used.

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So the action that we're recommending tonight is that you approve resolution R8, which

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would authorize the town manager to execute the agreement for purchase, and to enact a budget

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budget ordinance is O3 and O4 which would appropriate the money for the first payment.

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Here's some kind of background aware how we got to where we are now. In 2005, the American Legion executed a letter of right of first refusal to the town if they ever decided to sell the property.

252
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In 2015, the American Legion offered the town the ability to buy that property for $9 million. The offer was declined because the town did not have access to the funds to purchase the property at the town.

253
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If you remember that was before the bond referendum, we didn't have available the funds that are in

254
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excess of your fund balance target and so it would have just been difficult for the town

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to be able to purchase that property and only had a limited amount of time in order to consider

256
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that offer. Again, in 2016 you closed the fiscal year with $3.6 million over your target

257
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fund balance and the voters approved a bond referendum which includes about eight million or

258
00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:06,700
includes eight million dollars of authorized parks and recreation bonds.

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In October, the Council authorized and considered a new offer by the American Legion,

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an authorized town manager to negotiate with the Legion in order to come up with an agreement

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that might be acceptable to everybody.

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In November and a closed session, the Council tentatively agreed to the terms of acquisition

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that we're talking about tonight and tonight we're recommending that you officially authorize

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need to execute the agreement to purchase contract. Again, this is the purchase structure

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$7.9 million in total cost, $3.6 million a front with about $50,000 in closing costs,

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and then $2.15 million in one year increments, two more payments.

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Again, the least structure would be that the American Legion would continue to occupy the

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clubhouse, which is a little arm, let's see if I can find

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the clubhouse, the American

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Legion clubhouse is right here.

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The dance studio is right here.

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So this would allow them to continue to use the clubhouse and the dance studio in the way

273
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they have been using it since they've been on this property.

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And if you agree to this proposal tonight, the contract would be submitted to the American

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Legion membership in mid-December for their consideration and approval.

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The purchase price rationale for the $7.9 million.

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We had an appraisal of the town had an appraisal done in 2015 and the appraisal indicated

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a value for the property with no entitlement at about $4.8 million and a value of about

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$10.3 million if it were approved and entitled for a project similar to what Woodfield had proposed.

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We also have other property sales in the area, which would basically justify the price that we are proposing.

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And under the current zoning, by right, they could develop or someone could develop a 144 unit subdivision on that property.

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And an estimate of value from several commercial developers would be about 50,000, 50 to 60,000 dollars per unit,

283
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which would put us right about this price that we're talking about.

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So that's how we established a reasonable price for this piece of property.

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Potential future use.

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Obviously there's an assumption that the part would be expanded up to some portion of the property.

287
00:28:48,290 --> 00:29:00,590
It could also be used for other uses including community civic space, and you've had a number of conversations and proposals about people who might want to partner with the town and developing the park.

288
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There could also be, oh, there is interest in commercial office non-residential use on the front part of the property.

289
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And a potential for cost recovery if the council is willing to sell some of the property for that particular use.

290
00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:27,590
Again, we would initiate a strategic master planning process, hopefully accomplish that within the next five or six months for the Council to be able to make a decision about how you want to use all of the property.

291
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So again, our staff recommendation is that you approve the resolution of our eight authorizing the execution of the contract and approve the budget ordinances, which appropriate the funds for the first payment.

292
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:47,020
Thank you. Are there clarifying questions? Mr. Sancio.

293
00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:55,700
Roger, my understanding of the leases, the town will be responsible for the upkeep of the grounds and stuff like that.

294
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has the staff looked at the site and considered.

295
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:11,780
Under any safety issues regarding upon the two issues, I would raise the dam, whether the dam is injured.

296
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Engineers have certified the dam as structurally sound. But more importantly, perhaps if the town is mowing it and everything, and it's town property, is there any concern?

297
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to say a small child could wander into the pond or something like that, how would we treat

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the pond in terms of regarding safety of citizens?

299
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Well, part of the due diligence would of course be the safety of the pond as a structure

300
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and the dam as a structure, as well as doing a phase one environmental assessment to ensure

301
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there are no environmental hazards on the property if we were to acquire it.

302
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,720
The pond has been there for a long time as it is it's still would not be

303
00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:05,580
It would be encouraged to be used as it is now until something further develops. So wouldn't be a wide open park space

304
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That we would be encouraging people to come

305
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:16,580
Be around the pond, but it would be the town's liability issue now. That's that's a little different than the current situation

306
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Right, we would we can have our risk manager review that make recommendation about out-of-protect the town's interest in that regard.

307
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Thank you.

308
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:29,200
Any other clarifying questions before we hear from the public?

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00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:39,260
So it's and to build on that as far as the building then we aren't responsible for any maintenance and repair and upkeep on that.

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The maintenance and upkeep of the building both buildings remains with the American Legion.

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00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:51,200
Okay. Do we have members, if we have members of the public wishing to speak? Again, a reminder,

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00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,520
we'll have you come up. I'll call the first name followed by the second name. If you'll get ready,

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if you're the second name to come up, we ask everyone, you get three minutes to speak to us.

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We ask you to press the green button as you start, and then it'll run through and you can see the clock running,

315
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,700
and then you'll press the red button when you're finished. I appreciate it. All right.

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So I have Lou Brown followed by Andrew Ross.

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Good evening.

318
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,000
I'm Lou Brown from the Meadows.

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I've spoken to you several times.

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If you'll speak into the microphone, thank you.

321
00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:27,400
I'm Lou Brown from the Meadows.

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I've spoken to you several times for all this issue.

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And I felt obligated to be here tonight to congratulate the Council and the manager

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and the staff and the Legion for working out this agreement.

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I also particularly want to thank the Council for listening

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to the public, all of us who have come and spoken with concerns in support of or concerns

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00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,520
about this agreement. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate that. We wish to

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lead in well and we hope that they will be able to use a process from this sale to continue

329
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:06,440
their great work. And finally, next to us, I'd say this process and your decision says a lot

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about who we are as a community.

331
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Finally, we, the local citizens in there would like to be included

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in this planning process that managed your stance

333
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,600
to outline as you move forward.

334
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:19,960
Thank you very much.

335
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,540
Thank you. You pressed the red button for us, please.

336
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,100
Thank you.

337
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,080
I'll get better this.

338
00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:26,360
Where are we all learning?

339
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,220
Andrew Ross followed by Diane Willis.

340
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,300
I think Mike's going to join in Kate as well.

341
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,420
If you'll press the button for us there, yes.

342
00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:37,340
Thank you.

343
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,500
Good evening, how was everyone tonight?

344
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:45,580
Let me start to introduce myself and I'll introduce the two behind me.

345
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:47,140
My name is Andrew Ross.

346
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,100
I'm this my third year on the as a community representative on the board for the Chapel of Farmers Market.

347
00:33:53,780 --> 00:33:57,260
This is my second opportunity to meet some of you and speak.

348
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,660
And I appreciate the opportunity.

349
00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:03,760
I like to first sit my condolences Mr. Harrison and the loss of your mom.

350
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,560
of course, I already hear that. Again, this is my third year on the board as a community

351
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,700
rep. Mike Dupree is a, he's a vendor at the market. It's been there a long time. Almost

352
00:34:13,700 --> 00:34:19,100
since the beginning. And Kate Underhill is one of our wonderful market managers. And we're

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here tonight just to support your efforts to acquire the American Legion property. We think

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this is a great set for Chapel Hill. We also, I really appreciate, as a stakeholder in Chapel

355
00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:33,960
being updated on what actually is happening around Chapel Hill.

356
00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:35,400
It's nice to be included.

357
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,900
I think I sent an email months and months ago about having interest in the American Legion

358
00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:40,280
property.

359
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,880
It was nice to receive information about what was going on.

360
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:45,000
I really appreciate the transparency.

361
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,740
Again, we just want to really express the poor for the person to that American Legion property.

362
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,640
And we ask that as the planning process proceeds that you consider the needs of the

363
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Chapel Hill farmer's market as you decide what you would like to do with it.

364
00:35:00,820 --> 00:35:01,340
I

365
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:31,820
would like to, I think it's important that we reiterate that we are very happy with where we are, if you all are not familiar with our current location. We are located at university place. We've got a good relationship with the management there. We're very happy there. Our one outstanding concern is that there's new opportunity really for any sort of infrastructure development there on our end. There are farmers, markets that are successful, that have infrastructure, there are farmers, markets that are successful, that do not.

366
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We believe that having some sort of permanent structure is vital to the growth of the

367
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chapel of farmers market and there is a possibility that the American Legion could partner

368
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with us.

369
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:46,840
The American Legion property could partner with us to look into that.

370
00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:51,790
Is there anything either one else for like that?

371
00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:57,830
That's it, just to support this effort and to continue to think about what our long-term

372
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needs are.

373
00:35:58,630 --> 00:36:00,150
I wanted some of you visit the market.

374
00:36:00,230 --> 00:36:05,170
I see some of your faces and we've had meetings about it and I've had emails with Mr.

375
00:36:05,290 --> 00:36:05,730
Stancele.

376
00:36:05,790 --> 00:36:09,190
This will be the first time we're seeing each other face to face, but I appreciate all

377
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:09,910
your support.

378
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:10,930
Thank you.

379
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:12,110
You've pressed the red button for it.

380
00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:13,370
Thank you, Mr. Us.

381
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:16,350
Diane Willis, followed by Amber Sheer,

382
00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:26,150
Mayor Heminger, members of the Council.

383
00:36:27,590 --> 00:36:27,870
Sorry.

384
00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:30,510
Mayor Heminger, members of the Council.

385
00:36:30,850 --> 00:36:31,650
Thank you.

386
00:36:31,650 --> 00:36:32,250
Thank you.

387
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:33,170
Thank you.

388
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:45,770
For listening to the citizens of Chapel Hill who told you we wanted a much-needed community park on at least a portion of the American Legion property as opposed to more luxury apartments.

389
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Though quite a few folks could not be here this evening due to the scheduling conflict with the important county commissioners meeting.

390
00:36:53,310 --> 00:37:13,110
I believe I speak for many when I say we are thrilled that the Legion responded to community concerns and offered the town a second chance to purchase their land and that you did the hard work of negotiating the sale such that it will be a win-win for both the town and the Legion.

391
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The town badly needs a community park for Eastern Chapel Hill and the Legion land with its RCD and modest network of existing trails, citizen-built trails, is a perfect site for such a park, especially since it abuts the small emphasis park.

392
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:36,450
Combining the two areas into one larger part will be a boon to everyone who desires green space,

393
00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:44,370
woodsy walking trails, natural habitat, a buffer from density, and recreational areas, such as

394
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decent tennis courts, pickleball courts, and perhaps a pool or other indoor facilities.

395
00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:57,570
We residents of Connie Woods remind you, as further planning progresses, not to make new vehicular road

396
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connections to fountain ridge and feral roads.

397
00:38:01,190 --> 00:38:05,510
If eventually the town were to sell a portion of the land close to Legion Road for commercial

398
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:11,390
or office development, that could mesh with the attractive brick office buildings across

399
00:38:11,390 --> 00:38:12,050
the street.

400
00:38:12,930 --> 00:38:17,490
Perhaps provides structured parking for the whole site and provide income to the town while

401
00:38:17,490 --> 00:38:21,990
allowing the bulk of the open and beautiful wooded areas to be parkland.

402
00:38:22,750 --> 00:38:27,370
This is an opportunity for the town to be proactive in what it wants for that front portion

403
00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:33,070
the site, as well as for the park. While we understand that the town has expressed interest

404
00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:37,910
in selling that northwest portion of the site for commercial development to help finance

405
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:43,910
the purchase, now would be a good time to vigorously pursue other funding options such as

406
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:49,850
government conservation grants or private donations that would maximize the amount of acreage

407
00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:56,810
that remains public park land and would afford the town latitude and choosing what kind of

408
00:38:56,810 --> 00:39:00,290
development to put on that portion of the property that might be sold.

409
00:39:01,270 --> 00:39:07,210
It certainly has taken much thoughtful reflection on your parts to realize what is best

410
00:39:07,210 --> 00:39:11,050
for the town and its citizens with respect to the Legion property.

411
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:18,170
I applaud your considerable efforts and am anticipating your positive vote to buy the Legion

412
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:18,710
property.

413
00:39:19,050 --> 00:39:19,970
Many thanks.

414
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:20,810
Thank you.

415
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:22,190
You press the red button for us.

416
00:39:22,270 --> 00:39:23,210
Thank you.

417
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:28,130
And, for sure, followed by, and I, is Alan Huff, is that right?

418
00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:31,430
And there's a green button, right? Green button, you take a green button.

419
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:37,790
Okay, thank you very much. I just, I'm here mainly to reiterate what Diane said.

420
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:43,790
I've sent y'all emails on Saturday, saying basically the same thing.

421
00:39:44,170 --> 00:39:52,330
So, I do thank you very much. So, a long time Chapel Hill resident, when I grew up using that as a place where we would do things even in high school.

422
00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:58,430
So, um, anyway, thank you and I, and I, and I do applaud your efforts. Thanks. Thanks.

423
00:39:58,530 --> 00:39:59,790
Thanks, press me. Press the red button.

424
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:09,320
Yes. Alan Huff, is that right? Here we go. Couldn't read your first name on here. Come on up.

425
00:40:09,980 --> 00:40:12,460
Hit the green button. Here you go.

426
00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:20,420
Hi. My name is Alan Huff. I have lived near the legion property for several years.

427
00:40:20,820 --> 00:40:25,380
And I think that it could be a valuable area for people who live near the property.

428
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,600
Please vote to buy the land for later use.

429
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,380
It would be better to have a person to give the land to develop for us.

430
00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:40,240
Okay, thank you.

431
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:41,960
Press the red button.

432
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:44,360
Got it?

433
00:40:44,540 --> 00:40:45,140
Thank you.

434
00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:46,200
Thank you for your comments.

435
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,160
We have anyone else wishing to speak?

436
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:51,980
I saw Ms. Kane get up at the right.

437
00:40:52,220 --> 00:40:52,980
Lynn Kane.

438
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,100
Anyone else wishing to speak please sign up?

439
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,240
Thank you.

440
00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:09,030
Press the green one.

441
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:11,310
There you go.

442
00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:11,730
Okay.

443
00:41:12,590 --> 00:41:13,130
Good evening.

444
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:14,130
I'm Lynn Kane.

445
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:24,170
I hope you recall my previous comments about a butters like me suffering with mosquito infestations from the unnecessary man-made pond on the American Legion land.

446
00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:29,270
Today I want to make you aware of the frequent robberies or break-ins that occurred our homes,

447
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:34,710
budding the woods edging the region land. About 10 days ago a car was stolen from a home

448
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:40,150
two doors from mine and a car at the next house was rifle through. About five years ago the

449
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:45,750
former owner of the house next door to me was broken into. For to six years ago the fourth house

450
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:51,430
from mine on lock circle was broken into. The husband happened to return before five and found his

451
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:58,470
and his wife's computers on the floor and heard people running off into the woods. And owner saw

452
00:41:58,470 --> 00:42:02,970
someone with a gun in the woods behind his house on Legion Road, I know a lot of

453
00:42:02,970 --> 00:42:07,990
circle part of me. Within the last five years, my house has been robbed. The Legion

454
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:13,490
Land has a similar problem like Ram's Plaza about 15 years ago when nothing was open

455
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:19,850
after 10 pm, no eyes on the street. And business owners told me there they all are broken

456
00:42:19,850 --> 00:42:26,650
into every year. Legion Land is mostly unoccupied. If the Legion posts six accepts the towns

457
00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:33,110
offered a purchase. A botters and the town need offices, residents, and businesses there,

458
00:42:33,350 --> 00:42:40,370
not a park, acknowledge the expansion of the EFSA's park, as we would feel had suggested

459
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:45,390
as well. But not a park, especially since Chapel Hill cannot sufficiently maintain the parks

460
00:42:45,390 --> 00:42:51,090
we have. Post-6 deserves to sell their property at their own discretion to accommodate our

461
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:56,050
increasing veterans. And Chapel Hill must continue to expand our business revenue

462
00:42:56,050 --> 00:43:05,210
To maintain our town properties many perhaps do not realize that the need for revenue and eyes on the street is the full bottom line

463
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:08,910
So thank you to consider this as you go ahead with this project

464
00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:13,910
Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to speak come sign up with our curler can

465
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:31,780
You come up and to sell us your name.

466
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:40,580
Hi. My name is Pam Torn. You'll press the green button. No, you're good

467
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:44,460
My name is Pam Tim and I have spoken here before.

468
00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:50,260
I'm very excited about the thought that we will have part in the area.

469
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,620
I live less than three tenths of a mile.

470
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,420
I live in the colony Lake residents.

471
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:58,300
I have been broken into three times in the past five years.

472
00:43:58,940 --> 00:44:04,600
However, I do not support the previous person's kind of a summarization of what is needed.

473
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:11,720
I think in any area we're in density is increased and right now we have next to the

474
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:18,640
cemetery, pardonments being vote, on Legion Road, we have businesses, we have friends

475
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:27,140
Plaza, I know that in any kind of development and with the emphasis whole extension, that

476
00:44:27,140 --> 00:44:29,100
is always had to be looked into.

477
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:31,760
I'm myself at a range of the police,

478
00:44:31,860 --> 00:44:34,900
Chapel Hill Police within the past five years,

479
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,640
and meeting at the library to talk about the density issue,

480
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,420
and to talk about how we have to unite our communities,

481
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:44,140
that are especially within ten minutes,

482
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,900
walking distance of one another,

483
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,100
comedy works, comedy works,

484
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:50,900
picker works, all of these places

485
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:53,420
on your American Legion property.

486
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,400
I don't feel it, so a major issue,

487
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,800
I do think it's something that needs to be looked into.

488
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:20,540
As you develop, you increase density, and you have to think about those things. But I really look forward to seeing development of the work and aging property hopefully if this goes through to be part space. I'm a former teacher, 23 years. I taught it emphasis on military school for November of years. So I look forward to it.

489
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:27,560
Thank you. Can we have another person willing to speak? Do you want to come up? Are you speaking?

490
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,040
Ellie, can I share your comments?

491
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:40,380
All right.

492
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:42,580
Ellie's being a little shy over here.

493
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:43,480
This is Ellie to a verse.

494
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:44,320
She's nine.

495
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,580
She likes to hike, and would like to have this land

496
00:45:47,580 --> 00:45:49,740
because she thinks it's a good idea for a park.

497
00:45:49,940 --> 00:45:50,420
Is that right?

498
00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:52,220
Thank you for your comments.

499
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:53,280
Thank you.

500
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:54,000
All right.

501
00:45:54,220 --> 00:45:55,880
Anyone else wishing to speak?

502
00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:58,560
Council members, comments.

503
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,220
Mr. Barker.

504
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:04,330
Two things.

505
00:46:04,610 --> 00:46:08,510
First, I want to, I'm certainly on behalf of myself

506
00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:10,350
and I suspect many of my colleagues.

507
00:46:10,750 --> 00:46:14,170
Thank both Roger and Ralph for all the hard work

508
00:46:14,170 --> 00:46:17,050
and their staff put into making this happen.

509
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:18,210
It wasn't easy.

510
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:19,690
It took a lot of work.

511
00:46:19,690 --> 00:46:20,970
It took a lot of perseverance.

512
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:24,130
And I, for one, appreciate it.

513
00:46:24,190 --> 00:46:26,870
I also want to thank Mayor Heminger, who also

514
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:29,210
put a lot of time and effort into this.

515
00:46:29,290 --> 00:46:31,310
And I think it would be remiss if we didn't

516
00:46:31,310 --> 00:46:32,470
acknowledge our efforts.

517
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:43,290
I think that this, a number of us have been asked on our return from Boulder, what we learned

518
00:46:43,290 --> 00:46:48,490
and how we might use it in Chapel Hill, and one of the things I learned in Boulder was

519
00:46:48,490 --> 00:46:54,330
the importance of thinking for our head and buying land and doing land banking so that

520
00:46:54,330 --> 00:46:56,770
a town can meet its goals.

521
00:46:57,290 --> 00:47:02,030
And I think this in part certainly influenced me in this decision and perhaps some of

522
00:47:02,030 --> 00:47:09,250
colleagues I won't speak for them. So I think this for me was a tangible outcome of the time that

523
00:47:09,250 --> 00:47:14,750
at least I spent in Boulder learning how they do things there. I am really excited that we're able

524
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:22,630
to do this. I think it's an opportunity for us as a town to control our destiny and rather than

525
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:29,130
always reacting to someone else's proposals for us now to sort of literally put our money where

526
00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:38,030
mouths are, and go and come up with a plan that for this land that will need the needs

527
00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:46,530
of the residents of Chapel Hill, writ large. As the manager alluded to, we want to see

528
00:47:46,530 --> 00:47:53,330
a mix of uses on this site, or we suspect we do, and we want to engage in a planning process

529
00:47:53,330 --> 00:48:00,130
over the next however long. So hopefully sooner rather than later. In that regard, I'd like to

530
00:48:00,130 --> 00:48:05,590
add a couple of them, a friendly, so to speak, amendment to the resolution before us tonight.

531
00:48:06,510 --> 00:48:13,890
That just memorializes some of the things we talked about. Ralph has a copy and can put it up on the screen.

532
00:48:14,350 --> 00:48:19,530
I have hard copies here that I can, that I'd like to distribute to my colleagues up here at the

533
00:48:21,830 --> 00:48:24,510
And then people will bear with me.

534
00:48:24,690 --> 00:48:26,770
I will read it unless people want to read it themselves.

535
00:48:27,550 --> 00:48:29,570
Yeah, you're a little far away from Mike.

536
00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:31,850
Some of the problems I really have.

537
00:48:32,050 --> 00:48:34,470
Would you be willing to let people read this over and make their comments?

538
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:36,170
And we can come back to the resolutions.

539
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:36,590
Sure.

540
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:36,710
Sure.

541
00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:38,170
Because we can hear other comments.

542
00:48:38,430 --> 00:48:40,370
And then we can decide that we can do.

543
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:42,870
It's on the screen.

544
00:48:43,570 --> 00:48:43,850
Yeah.

545
00:48:45,570 --> 00:48:47,430
So it gives people a chance and we'll come back.

546
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:47,590
Sure.

547
00:48:47,590 --> 00:48:49,830
Yeah, somebody's voting on at this point.

548
00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:51,770
Yeah, just to read it over and then we'll come back.

549
00:48:51,770 --> 00:48:53,390
I'll come back to you for the resolution.

550
00:48:53,770 --> 00:48:54,250
Okay, fine.

551
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:58,290
So, but again, I'm just really excited about this.

552
00:48:58,370 --> 00:49:04,290
I think it's an opportunity for the town and I'm really glad

553
00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:05,870
that we're able to do this.

554
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:06,310
Great.

555
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:07,310
Other comments?

556
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:10,120
Ms. Anderson?

557
00:49:16,350 --> 00:49:21,450
I'd also like to thank Mayor Heminger for all the hours as well

558
00:49:21,450 --> 00:49:23,750
as the town manager in the town attorney and the staff.

559
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:25,890
I would just echo what Michael said.

560
00:49:25,950 --> 00:49:30,090
I know this has been a lot of work for all parties involved.

561
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:32,550
I'd also like to thank the public for coming out

562
00:49:32,550 --> 00:49:35,910
and for engaging with us and giving your ideas

563
00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:37,930
and helping us through, I think,

564
00:49:38,090 --> 00:49:40,990
what was kind of a tough decision for folks.

565
00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:43,530
And I'm really excited about the opportunity.

566
00:49:43,850 --> 00:49:44,670
I think it's wonderful.

567
00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:49,050
I do also, I would really like to stress

568
00:49:49,050 --> 00:49:51,010
that I think it's important that we do

569
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:59,950
That planning process and really think carefully about what we want there that we don't just, you know, I think it makes sense to sell off the front to pay for the back.

570
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:13,880
But I really want us to be thoughtful and deliberative about what we decide goes there. And I think there's going to be more opportunity for us to work as a community and figuring out what that looks like.

571
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,880
So I'm really excited and I just want to thank everybody again for all the hard work.

572
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:19,940
Mr. Seancella?

573
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,860
Yeah, I want to thank everyone that's been thank all right.

574
00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:29,100
But I also want to thank Diane Willis who took me on a wonderful walk of the property.

575
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,720
I guess a month or two ago was a nice day and it was a good day for walking.

576
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:42,680
I think only with somebody who knows the property could you really understand what was there and what's worth preserving.

577
00:50:44,140 --> 00:50:46,580
So I thank her for that.

578
00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:51,140
I think that this is a great opportunity for the town.

579
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,520
I'm glad that we had a good year last year.

580
00:50:53,660 --> 00:50:56,900
I had an access in the fund balance so that we could do it.

581
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:04,060
And I look forward to the planning process to see how we can make this work.

582
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,440
Not only with some potential commercial that might bring some revenue,

583
00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:11,860
but also with some of the civic uses that people have talked about.

584
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,020
So I think it'll be a win-win for everyone, so thank you.

585
00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:19,700
I'm going to just add one comment and then I'll come to you.

586
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:24,520
I want to say, and all the thank yous, a really big thank you goes for the Legion community as

587
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:24,700
well.

588
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,540
They have been wonderful community partners willing to open up, rethink, re-look, and have

589
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:30,380
discussion with us.

590
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,400
And I don't want you to think that we're not very, very grateful that you are willing

591
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,420
to come back to the table and talk with us.

592
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:39,480
So make sure that got out there and make sure you heard that message.

593
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:40,440
Miss Oates.

594
00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:46,640
It was basically what I was going to say and also to thank, to thank you for your patients

595
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:51,280
and perseverance and the staff and the community for being involved as well.

596
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,360
And I would like to encourage the community to stay involved as we go through the planning

597
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:57,080
process.

598
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:58,180
Ms. Palmer?

599
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:09,320
We have all received a lot of emails and, unlike the comments tonight, there have been

600
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:16,760
some people that have emailed the council and said we oppose this or we have problems with

601
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:22,520
that and one of the issues that has been brought up is it took us years and a lot of work

602
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:31,740
to find half a million dollars to put sewers in the Rogers Road community how come we can

603
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:42,080
overnight, find $7.9 million, so, and I think it's a legitimate question, and I answered that

604
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:47,860
online, and it's public record because it's a part of the council email exchanges,

605
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:55,200
but I, and I think that's a shameful thing that happened in the past and just because

606
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,260
we did wrong in the past, doesn't mean we have to continue to make bad decisions.

607
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:07,880
So, I see public space well used as also being an issue of social justice.

608
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:18,460
So I just like Mr. Parker said that land banking is important to fulfill the town's

609
00:53:18,460 --> 00:53:19,540
mission and purposes.

610
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:27,180
So I want to be really careful and I hope of course that we can sell part of this and that

611
00:53:27,180 --> 00:53:31,720
there will be investors that will do some of the good things that we need in our community

612
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:37,880
like office space, so I am hopeful that we will recoup some of the money,

613
00:53:42,370 --> 00:53:43,710
I am the liaison

614
00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:48,730
the council to the Parks and Rec Commission, and I tell you every time I cross paths with

615
00:53:48,730 --> 00:53:53,570
one of the members, they kind of shake me and say you are working hard to get that, we are

616
00:53:53,570 --> 00:54:02,330
expand the park, right? So there is a huge need in our community for recreational space,

617
00:54:02,850 --> 00:54:15,150
particularly for young people and for young adults that healthy activities that contribute

618
00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:21,330
to their wellbeing, their emotional and physical health, including dancing, including

619
00:54:23,150 --> 00:54:32,170
And I have this vision of this facility that can support an indoor farmer's market and convert

620
00:54:32,170 --> 00:54:38,030
into a dance hall for our Friday night groups that have been asking us.

621
00:54:38,770 --> 00:54:48,110
So I think this is an investment if we commit to work with Parks and Rec and with all community

622
00:54:49,170 --> 00:54:53,790
partners and all the different people, the volleyball leagues and all the people that

623
00:54:53,790 --> 00:54:59,050
have come here and make sure that it's accessible.

624
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:29,560
And we can have tutoring space and teen events. So I am hoping that the community will see this as an opportunity, you know, and an affordable housing in part of it. So I hope that the community sees this as an investment and that the people that are questioning, you know, this is because some wealthy people in the community are a little pissed at the council that then we find the money.

625
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:55,220
And I don't think, at least from my vote, I'm saying I hope that this will make life better for all members of the community, including the hundreds of public housing and affordable housing residents of their area that will be moving in in the next couple of years.

626
00:55:55,220 --> 00:56:05,160
So I see these as an opportunity for us to do a very good thing and hopefully we will recover some of this investment.

627
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:07,660
Ms. Green.

628
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:15,500
Excuse me. I too want to thank everyone including Diane for taking me on a fun and informative walk at the property.

629
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:23,640
It was good really to see and I agree with George. You really can't see what's going on there unless somebody shows you otherwise you might miss a trailer.

630
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,940
Maybe you want to miss a trail, because some of the trails are not that accessible right now.

631
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,140
I appreciate all of the thoughtful planning and discussions that have gone into this.

632
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,180
I'm going to just reiterate what the manager said at the beginning, and said this Council is in a very different position.

633
00:56:38,540 --> 00:56:45,840
Now, then we were last December when we had a very limited time window and no funds to really make a decision like this.

634
00:56:46,020 --> 00:56:52,000
I think it is a very appropriate place for some open space in a park and that part of town,

635
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,960
particularly to serve the growing population that we will see with the efforts for the development

636
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:03,440
and already are seeing with the DHSC project. It's going to be a really welcome addition to the

637
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,220
tale and I look forward to the planning process. Ms. Bell.

638
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:13,860
So I like Michael Parker did take

639
00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:21,380
away the lesson from Boulder of how important investing in your community is even if you don't know

640
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:23,420
what the in-product is going to look like.

641
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,820
And so at this point, I am willing to support this investment.

642
00:57:27,220 --> 00:57:30,960
But I will not know the true worth of this choice

643
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:35,700
until we actually do go through the master planning process.

644
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,960
I am an agreement with what folks are saying

645
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,060
about there is going to be a need for additional green space.

646
00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:45,880
There's already been identified as a need.

647
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,780
And then we are made a commitment to increasing the density

648
00:57:48,780 --> 00:57:50,060
and nexus for the area.

649
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:59,040
and so it makes sense, but I also am not committing in this vote that there will not be

650
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:04,180
density on this piece of property, that there will not be connections to other properties,

651
00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:12,420
that there won't be other uses on this property. I'm not saying that there will be, but

652
00:58:12,420 --> 00:58:19,760
I wanted to be really, really clear that I am not voting to create a space where there is

653
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,620
going to be a park in only a park.

654
00:58:21,940 --> 00:58:23,960
I really look forward to the master planning process.

655
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,620
And I hope that we as a town can be proud

656
00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:28,280
of what comes out of that,

657
00:58:28,540 --> 00:58:30,440
because I think folks have worked really, really hard

658
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:35,320
to make this opportunity of this land available.

659
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,640
I really appreciate Allegeneres sticking with us.

660
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,060
I apologize for it being such a long process

661
00:58:44,060 --> 00:58:47,480
because in the end, I feel like you kind of

662
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:52,420
more the the brunt of us kind of figured all out. So I appreciate you sticking with us.

663
00:58:53,980 --> 00:59:00,400
I appreciate you leaving us this amazing tribute to your being here and being willing to

664
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,800
share it with us and hope you will feel willing to allow us to visit you in your new facilities

665
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:14,980
once you get there. We promise to bring gifts. So again, I'm just this is a, I had to make a decision

666
00:59:14,980 --> 00:59:22,560
about what's a vote for this recommendation or not vote for it because I do have some reservations

667
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,880
about this particular process but also the process that we've gone through.

668
00:59:28,020 --> 00:59:34,660
I've been on the council for I think seven years now and I have never seen this town scramble

669
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:42,540
and makes something happen as quickly that causes this much money ever that you know I don't

670
00:59:42,540 --> 00:59:45,620
I understand the question about Rogers' road,

671
00:59:45,740 --> 00:59:47,620
but I understand the question about other things

672
00:59:47,620 --> 00:59:50,600
that we have identified as priorities in this town

673
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,320
that we let flounder until we come up with a plan.

674
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,320
So in this moment, we're where we are saying

675
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,960
that we can have actions without a plan.

676
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:09,740
We can make actions with the hope of creating a plan that will have good outcomes. I hope that we see this as a model that we continue to use.

677
01:00:10,140 --> 01:00:22,220
That we can make an investment with the idea that at some point we will figure out how to make it come to fruition as opposed to what we have done in the past, which is wait for there to be a plan.

678
01:00:22,220 --> 01:00:29,700
If it's important enough to do for part space, then I think it's important enough to do for supporting our youth,

679
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:38,220
it's important enough to do for affordable housing, it's important enough to do for other infrastructures that we've decided that we want to happen.

680
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:49,160
And so it is with those thoughts that I will join, I think, all of my fellow council members in the affirmative vote for this.

681
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:57,240
But as there is like this entire public record thing and if someone's really interested 15 years from now and wonders what all went down in this room

682
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,980
I do want it on the record that it is with reservation

683
01:01:00,780 --> 01:01:04,160
That I come to being able to support this

684
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:06,000
Mr. Harrison

685
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:06,900
Yeah

686
01:01:07,660 --> 01:01:10,460
Ralph, can you put up my next resolution again?

687
01:01:10,460 --> 01:01:11,260
It disappeared

688
01:01:11,940 --> 01:01:12,420
Yeah

689
01:01:13,460 --> 01:01:14,280
Thank you

690
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:14,660
Yes

691
01:01:14,660 --> 01:01:17,460
Thank you, the additional to that to the language you have on your right

692
01:01:17,460 --> 01:01:21,940
And anyway, there were a lot of things around it.

693
01:01:22,060 --> 01:01:27,360
I did want to thank the American Legion for hanging in there first for your service to

694
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:32,820
the country that my mother adopted, appreciated your service there.

695
01:01:33,340 --> 01:01:39,420
And for the years of providing affordable meeting space, I associate your building with happy

696
01:01:39,420 --> 01:01:46,140
weddings and concerts and such, and we could have that same use again here.

697
01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:54,300
And also thanks just now to Michael for the resolution and to Donna for the important

698
01:01:54,300 --> 01:02:01,080
caution that she has expressed, folks need to be aware that we don't intend for the whole

699
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:05,780
property to be a park, a lot of it doesn't work real well for a park.

700
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:14,420
And I've been passing through the American Legion property for years very quickly, not stopping

701
01:02:14,420 --> 01:02:21,160
as a bicyclist, because it was a way to get from Fster's Church Road to Legion Road.

702
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:27,500
Just bicycle locally, I do things, useful things on a bike.

703
01:02:29,260 --> 01:02:35,640
So it was somewhere I had seen a lot, but I'd say until this all started in 2015,

704
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,000
hadn't seen it very well.

705
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:46,660
Michael, and I took a walking tour, hiking tour really last March, and concluded with what he has in this resolution.

706
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:56,400
I use a mix of purposes, mix of purposes, both public and private, and we would develop principles for it as a council.

707
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:08,720
So people do need to be aware that I certainly stand the what I said in the original process in 2015 that has a

708
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:17,220
I had to be a botanist of planning colleges that my evaluation was the most largest and most significant intact

709
01:03:17,220 --> 01:03:19,400
upland forest in Houston, Chapel Hill.

710
01:03:19,940 --> 01:03:20,180
It is.

711
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:25,700
It's a big piece of woods combined with what's on that property and with what's on the

712
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:28,560
school property and the particularly the town park property.

713
01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:36,160
It has, as Diane Willis said, a nice set of volunteer built trails, well designed, built

714
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:42,760
for free with apparently historically permission of the Legion to do and I'd like to retain

715
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:44,040
as much of that as I can.

716
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,460
So anyway, I speak in support of this.

717
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:56,120
Thank also Diane and some friends for a tour later in the year that didn't change my mind on anything that I thought we ought to proceed with this.

718
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:05,480
But again, as Donna has said, if we can do this this quickly, there are other things we can do quickly as well, they're also important.

719
01:04:06,140 --> 01:04:15,060
So I will happily go to the support of this and want to thank all the folks who pull me into it so rapidly in 2015, it was never a bad moment.

720
01:04:15,780 --> 01:04:16,480
Thank you.

721
01:04:17,620 --> 01:04:21,620
I'll just add my comments as well. Echo a lot of things that have been said here tonight.

722
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:28,660
And a special thanks to Roger and Ralph and staff for going in and really trying to make this work.

723
01:04:28,780 --> 01:04:30,720
And for the Legion group for being willing to listen.

724
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,480
And for the community for coming out and telling us what they'd like to see.

725
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:40,780
Um, I think it ended up, I'm hopeful that everyone feels like this is a win-win for this particular situation.

726
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:42,640
I know it, new, quickly.

727
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:49,240
Um, I also want to reaffirm Councilmember Palmer that I am determined to continue forward with the Rogers Road.

728
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,960
Suer project, I explained to the individual who wrote us about that, and I'm passionate about that.

729
01:04:54,100 --> 01:04:55,460
We're going to make that happen.

730
01:04:56,700 --> 01:04:59,720
Um, it's long overdue. I've been very involved in that.

731
01:04:59,820 --> 01:04:59,960
I hear that.

732
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:14,260
Here the concerns we have a lot of things we can be doing. I've hopeful been working towards the goal of that, that we bring in those balance of tax revenue dollars to help us do. The things that are important to our community.

733
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:25,500
I just want to say I learned a lot from bolder ship too, which was inspired by the land banking that you can plan your own destiny. And it also gives us the chance to think big.

734
01:05:25,500 --> 01:05:30,620
We have an opportunity here to plan, we have time, we have the energy, we have the opportunity

735
01:05:30,620 --> 01:05:35,980
to dream big, think big, look at our needs, figure out what that means, and move forward

736
01:05:35,980 --> 01:05:37,080
with the planning process.

737
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,180
And it's a really, it's an important process.

738
01:05:41,260 --> 01:05:44,680
I just, I really am thrilled about this opportunity and it was all about timing.

739
01:05:45,340 --> 01:05:47,060
It was very much about timing.

740
01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:51,400
We also have opportunities to partner with other groups on this particular property.

741
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,940
We've had many groups of protests, both private and non-profit.

742
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:55,920
There's lots I said.

743
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,080
We can drink big, we can figure it out.

744
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,540
And I'll be sad actually to see the leech and group

745
01:06:00,540 --> 01:06:02,300
move out of the Chapel Hill neighborhood.

746
01:06:02,660 --> 01:06:05,060
You have been here a long time, and we've appreciated

747
01:06:05,060 --> 01:06:07,320
your service, and I agree with Mr. Harrison,

748
01:06:07,460 --> 01:06:09,680
associate you with big events happening there,

749
01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:12,180
and that you've opened your land up for people

750
01:06:12,180 --> 01:06:14,300
to use the pond, walk around, do things.

751
01:06:14,620 --> 01:06:16,320
You have been a wonderful community partner.

752
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,940
And I wish you very, very well, and your journey

753
01:06:20,940 --> 01:06:24,780
to find a new space that works well and creates a space that works for you in today's world.

754
01:06:25,820 --> 01:06:33,700
So, we have a resolution from a modified resolution and a men did, sorry, I'm just very excited

755
01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:34,460
about this this evening.

756
01:06:37,460 --> 01:06:40,840
So, do you want to explain to us what you added on here now, so I just want to make sure

757
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,180
I've got in the comments and I want to tell us what you're doing with that.

758
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:50,060
Yes, I think that is part of our discussion that went on both in our closed session as you

759
01:06:50,060 --> 01:06:56,220
heard tonight and going back to the work session, we had back in March, there has been

760
01:06:56,220 --> 01:07:00,940
I think a pretty consistent desire on the part of the council that this land being used

761
01:07:00,940 --> 01:07:06,660
for a mix of purposes, although there has never been clearly a great deal of clarity

762
01:07:06,660 --> 01:07:09,520
as what that mix would be, but that mix would be.

763
01:07:09,580 --> 01:07:15,840
And I felt that it would be helpful to embody in the resolution rather than just in the

764
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:22,400
presentation, that number one we want to do, and mix of uses, consistent with the principles

765
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:28,460
that the town approved, that the council approved back in June, and that also the very, you know,

766
01:07:28,660 --> 01:07:33,440
formally direct the town manager, not that he really needs our direction for this one,

767
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:40,320
to move ahead as quickly as possible, getting the planning process underway so that we can start

768
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:48,100
getting some clarity and to the mayor's point, have our big plans, Daniel Burnham said,

769
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:54,600
make no plans, make no small plans. So that's the what's behind this resolution. I hope

770
01:07:55,260 --> 01:08:00,580
one of my council members will second it and then we will then be able to abode it in the affirmative.

771
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:10,510
So Mr. Parker is making the motion for a prepping resolution R8 and O3 and O4 to be

772
01:08:10,510 --> 01:08:12,950
them all together just R8 with the amended.

773
01:08:13,610 --> 01:08:16,190
Yeah, R8 has revised by this and.

774
01:08:16,190 --> 01:08:16,470
Okay.

775
01:08:16,590 --> 01:08:17,330
So one at a time.

776
01:08:17,550 --> 01:08:18,730
So are you making the motion Mr. Parker?

777
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:19,070
Yes.

778
01:08:19,070 --> 01:08:19,830
R8 revised.

779
01:08:19,830 --> 01:08:20,130
Yes.

780
01:08:20,690 --> 01:08:22,070
Ms. Palmer is seconding.

781
01:08:22,190 --> 01:08:23,070
R8 revised.

782
01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:24,490
Any comments?

783
01:08:25,290 --> 01:08:26,470
Ms. Oates.

784
01:08:27,410 --> 01:08:32,650
So I have a clarifying comment when you say the as outlined in the report to council, you mean

785
01:08:32,650 --> 01:08:41,850
the presentation tonight okay. I would respectfully ask that you withdraw this at least the

786
01:08:41,850 --> 01:08:51,690
first paragraph. We've had such a long process and I think a very exciting resolution

787
01:08:51,690 --> 01:08:59,550
to this and we've all had a chance to talk about and bring in the public getting involved

788
01:08:59,550 --> 01:09:09,290
in all of this, and what, I'm not sure what that first paragraph says that it's not already

789
01:09:09,290 --> 01:09:16,310
in the whereas that talks about the, or I'll can you bring it back out for us?

790
01:09:17,190 --> 01:09:22,130
The opportunities for potential different uses for parts of the property, which will provide

791
01:09:22,130 --> 01:09:26,890
benefits to the town and the residences, so that's, the answer to that is what's in

792
01:09:26,890 --> 01:09:44,730
whereas it's not binding, it is the only part of the resolution that is actually binding is that which says be it resolved so that's why I felt it was important to take what was already in the resolution and in the intent and make sure that it was embodied in what the Council actually approved.

793
01:09:44,730 --> 01:09:52,170
Then I think that's that's why I would I would respectfully act to ask the two of us for all that because we've we've talked in

794
01:09:53,190 --> 01:09:57,930
In various council meetings about no surprises and I

795
01:09:57,930 --> 01:09:59,950
Checked my email this afternoon. I didn't see it

796
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:27,060
Anything about this as of this afternoon. So this kind of got put on us as a surprise. I would, I'm not comfortable with that. We have it really. I'm not, I'm not certain what you're thinking of in that first paragraph. So I'm not sure that I want to say, I'm affirming something that you believe, but I don't know what it is.

797
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,120
I'm very much in favor of the town acquiring this property.

798
01:10:33,460 --> 01:10:38,780
I'm just this paragraph in here thrown in at the last minute when I don't really know what you mean.

799
01:10:38,900 --> 01:10:42,480
I don't know that I can affirm that.

800
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:42,940
Okay.

801
01:10:44,460 --> 01:10:45,640
Okay, Mr. Sancello.

802
01:10:47,340 --> 01:10:49,020
I do support the addition.

803
01:10:49,540 --> 01:10:55,280
I think this goes back to some of the things that occurred in our closed sessions

804
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:02,680
that some of us had some concerns how we were going to pay for this that we had a good year

805
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:08,100
last year and because of that we were able to come up with the down payment but we have another

806
01:11:08,100 --> 01:11:14,520
$4.3 million that we have to come up with in the next two years and I think none of us know

807
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:23,740
for sure were the economies going. We have had some down years in the town 2008 and several years

808
01:11:23,740 --> 01:11:30,740
after we're very down years, and so we want to make sure that it's understood by the citizens,

809
01:11:30,820 --> 01:11:38,220
and I think that was Michael's intent, that the likelihood that this could all be park is

810
01:11:38,220 --> 01:11:46,400
not very high because that would require us to find another 4.3 million that we don't know

811
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:53,280
where it's going to come from. So all of us are not all of us, but certain of us in the close

812
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:59,180
sessions when this was moving forward always said, you know, we need to keep the option available

813
01:11:59,180 --> 01:12:04,440
to generate some revenue that would help pay that additional 4.3 million.

814
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:11,360
And so that's where I think Michael is coming from and I certainly support that because

815
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:17,180
and I hope the citizens understand that we don't know where the 4.3 million is going to come from.

816
01:12:17,180 --> 01:12:20,080
We can raise it, no problem.

817
01:12:20,140 --> 01:12:26,240
We can raise taxes that would be about six cents on the tax rate, which would raise that,

818
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,240
but I don't think anybody here actually wants to see it.

819
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:34,200
So we just want to keep the option open that we might be able to generate some revenue

820
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,660
to help pay for the additional 4.3 million that we need.

821
01:12:38,100 --> 01:12:43,580
And I think most of us feel that anything that would happen would probably be a long

822
01:12:43,580 --> 01:12:52,380
region road, would still retain a lot of the area for Parkland, but we need to have everyone

823
01:12:52,380 --> 01:12:58,760
understand that we want to going forward, we want the option to be able to at least generate

824
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:02,840
some revenue that will help pay you for the rest of the acquisition.

825
01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:12,700
So I support, I know you're rolling your eyes, but this is really important to me.

826
01:13:12,700 --> 01:13:20,380
What about if we took that whereas in the resolution as it stands and put that, is your

827
01:13:20,380 --> 01:13:23,200
be resolved rather than what you put down?

828
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:29,180
I know we did get at least one letter from a concerned citizen about how we were going to

829
01:13:29,180 --> 01:13:34,260
use this property and I responded that all we were voting on tonight was whether we were

830
01:13:34,260 --> 01:13:35,420
going to purchase the property.

831
01:13:36,340 --> 01:13:42,540
And because that was my understanding, I didn't think that we were voting tonight and how

832
01:13:42,540 --> 01:13:50,020
we were going to use it, that whereas talks about using this in the best interest of the

833
01:13:50,020 --> 01:13:56,220
community, we're all on record now as saying that we need a way to pay for this.

834
01:13:56,660 --> 01:14:04,680
But the idea that we're taking something that was said in close session and perhaps wasn't unanimous

835
01:14:05,420 --> 01:14:11,380
and putting that in the resolution without any discussion, without any warning, really to

836
01:14:11,380 --> 01:14:20,600
your fellow colleagues here. It just it doesn't sit right with me. Ms. Palmer. I support this

837
01:14:22,340 --> 01:14:30,680
addition and I think it reflects the discussions of the council. I don't think that it's a good

838
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:37,240
idea to say, but I understand what we were talking about when we did our retreat about trying to

839
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:44,140
not spring pick things on each other without warning and giving people time to think through

840
01:14:44,140 --> 01:14:51,420
things, but this is not a surprise. This is putting into words something that was a concerned

841
01:14:51,420 --> 01:14:59,960
expressed and discussed very thoroughly that I think has been verbalized by several members.

842
01:15:00,620 --> 01:15:08,640
And I really appreciate Mr. Parker taking the time and putting it together, because this was one of the things

843
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:14,500
is Mr. Chancellor said that was kind of a problem for some of us to move forward.

844
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:21,360
So I would, I don't know if it's appropriate to move.

845
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:22,540
I can call the question.

846
01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:26,160
No, it's to call the question call the question.

847
01:15:26,340 --> 01:15:35,160
To call the question at this time, and see if we can vote and find how many people are ready for it.

848
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:37,880
I think over done with comments, we don't need to

849
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:41,970
write.

850
01:15:43,550 --> 01:15:47,070
I would say I hear your concerns, the

851
01:15:49,410 --> 01:15:50,090
questions they call.

852
01:15:50,130 --> 01:15:54,870
The questions been called, and I hear the concerns, and we're going to go ahead and move

853
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:55,830
for with our vote.

854
01:15:57,410 --> 01:16:01,090
So, the vote is on the amended R8.

855
01:16:01,930 --> 01:16:03,550
All those in favor please say aye.

856
01:16:04,290 --> 01:16:06,090
Any opposed please raise your hand, nay.

857
01:16:06,890 --> 01:16:09,050
The motion passes 8 to 1.

858
01:16:09,630 --> 01:16:10,690
Thank you for that.

859
01:16:12,230 --> 01:16:15,170
All right, and then we need to enact the budget ordinance

860
01:16:15,170 --> 01:16:16,730
in order to have the funding to do so.

861
01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:19,330
Is there a motion move?

862
01:16:19,390 --> 01:16:20,510
Oh, 3 and 0 for.

863
01:16:20,730 --> 01:16:24,510
It's been moved by Ms. Anderson and seconded by Michael Parker.

864
01:16:24,510 --> 01:16:29,870
Mr. Parker, to enact the budget ordinance, are there comments about that?

865
01:16:30,970 --> 01:16:32,990
Both of them, O3 and O4.

866
01:16:34,230 --> 01:16:36,470
All right, all those in favor of say aye.

867
01:16:37,270 --> 01:16:39,190
Any opposed, please raise your hand, nay.

868
01:16:40,230 --> 01:16:41,510
Motion is unanimous.

869
01:16:41,710 --> 01:16:42,530
Thank you.

870
01:16:44,620 --> 01:16:44,940
Congratulations.

871
01:16:45,620 --> 01:16:46,460
Very excited.

872
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:47,120
Thank you.

873
01:16:47,220 --> 01:16:48,360
You don't have to come to any more meetings.

874
01:16:49,700 --> 01:16:52,460
Would you like us to come to your meeting on the 15?

875
01:16:56,500 --> 01:17:17,860
Thank you. Thank you. Thank everyone for as we work through this process. And I'm really, really thrilled with the outcome. And again, thank you Mr. Manager and Mr. Attorney for helping guide us and sticking with this. All right. That brings us to our next item.

876
01:17:17,860 --> 01:17:32,260
Consider, consider the land use management ordinance, text amendment, proposed changes to section 5.14 signs, and section 3.11.4.4, the emphasis for them district sign standards.

877
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,320
That was a mouthful. All right, Mr. Paul.

878
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:35,660
I

879
01:17:42,700 --> 01:17:44,440
lost my guess.

880
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:46,520
Good

881
01:17:50,550 --> 01:17:58,910
evening, Madam Mayor and Council members. My name is Jean Poveramo. I am the development manager in the planning and sustainability department.

882
01:18:00,250 --> 01:18:07,850
Tonight's item is a continuation of the November 11th public hearing on proposed text amendments to the town sign ordinance.

883
01:18:08,890 --> 01:18:13,050
My presentation consists of 12 slides and should last about seven minutes.

884
01:18:13,830 --> 01:18:16,230
That's a conclusion of my presentation.

885
01:18:16,490 --> 01:18:21,510
The Council has the opportunity to ask questions of staff or offer comments.

886
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,780
staff is asking Council to act on this item tonight.

887
01:18:27,660 --> 01:18:31,500
We have several applicants that are anticipating Council action tonight.

888
01:18:32,260 --> 01:18:35,100
And these applicants are hoping that the staff can process their sign

889
01:18:35,100 --> 01:18:39,940
applications based on staff based on tonight's action by the Council.

890
01:18:42,460 --> 01:18:47,860
So tonight's decision points are for the Council to continue or close the public hearing.

891
01:18:49,100 --> 01:18:51,840
To adopt or deny resolution R9,

892
01:18:51,840 --> 01:19:00,140
finding consistency with the comprehensive plan, and to enact or deny ordinance 05

893
01:19:00,140 --> 01:19:01,840
amending the sign regulations.

894
01:19:04,290 --> 01:19:06,930
Our recommendation is that upon completing your

895
01:19:06,930 --> 01:19:13,050
discussion, the Council closed the public hearing, adopt resolution R9, and enact

896
01:19:13,050 --> 01:19:14,350
ordinance 05.

897
01:19:18,190 --> 01:19:22,050
So during the November 11th hearing, four key considerations were

898
01:19:22,050 --> 01:19:28,370
discussed, they include allowing commercial center signs in the Ephesus Forum District, adjusting

899
01:19:28,370 --> 01:19:35,550
street frontage standards for commercial center signs, wall sign allocation limits.

900
01:19:36,670 --> 01:19:43,310
I will discuss these three items shortly, and a fourth item mentioned on November 11th,

901
01:19:43,430 --> 01:19:48,950
concerned comparing sign standards for Glen Lennox, Obey Creek, and Careway Village

902
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:50,950
to the current sign regulations.

903
01:19:52,250 --> 01:19:55,350
Staff will present this information at a future work session

904
01:19:55,350 --> 01:19:58,230
when we return to discuss other sign topics.

905
01:20:00,370 --> 01:20:08,910
So, now let me go over to three key considerations. The first one I will discuss involves commercial center signs in Ephesus 4th of.

906
01:20:10,130 --> 01:20:20,790
The Planning Commission did not believe that commercial center ground signs, and these are the signs that are around 12 to 14 feet in height, were appropriate for the Ephesus 4th of District.

907
01:20:20,790 --> 01:20:29,050
The planning commission believe these taller types of ground signs were primarily designed for higher speed road roadways

908
01:20:29,050 --> 01:20:34,950
and recommended limiting these signs to the Type-C frontage streets in Ephesus for them.

909
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:47,280
So this map identifies the two Type-C street segments in the Ephesus for them district that would allow commercial center ground signs as recommended by the planning commission.

910
01:20:48,580 --> 01:20:57,900
So there's one segment here on Fordham, and then the other C section is the extension of

911
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:04,800
there's extension of a road that's proposed behind the days in, I'm sorry, the holiday

912
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:05,420
in.

913
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:14,280
Staff is recommending that commercial center signs be allowed in Ephesus Fordham and that

914
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,960
they follow the same standards that apply elsewhere in the community.

915
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:27,220
For example, commercial center signs are permitted on roadways today that have speed limits of 35 or 45 miles per hour.

916
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:35,840
This map identifies the street segments in Ephesus Fortem, which speed limits of 35 or 45 miles per hour.

917
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:37,760
They include Franklin Street,

918
01:21:42,340 --> 01:21:43,400
Fortem Boulevard,

919
01:21:47,260 --> 01:21:52,520
Ephesus Church Road, and there's also Elliott Road.

920
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:01,780
The red dots identified commercial centers where such signs would be permitted.

921
01:22:03,540 --> 01:22:16,780
So commercial centers in Ephesus Fortem include Rams Plaza, East Gate, Village Plaza, Mark Properties, the Galleria, and the Vacuum Cleaner Hospital.

922
01:22:16,780 --> 01:22:24,860
All of those shopping centers, except the vacuum cleaner hospital, and village Plaza have commercial

923
01:22:24,860 --> 01:22:25,900
center signs.

924
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:31,480
There is a commercial center sign currently at Ram's Plaza, and there's also one from

925
01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:36,680
Mark Properties in the Galleria, and Eastgate has applied for a commercial center sign.

926
01:22:36,780 --> 01:22:41,100
And that's the commercial center sign application we are currently reviewing.

927
01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:42,020
The

928
01:22:45,090 --> 01:22:50,830
staff believes these commercial center signs are appropriate in the Ephesus Fordon district for a few reasons.

929
01:22:51,630 --> 01:22:58,010
For example, as Ephesus Fordon district begins to redevelop from the commercial base of older shopping centers

930
01:22:58,010 --> 01:23:07,930
to development envisioned by the Fordon base district, there still remains a desire by existing business owners in Ephesus Fordon for this type of signage.

931
01:23:08,710 --> 01:23:13,790
In fact, as I said, staff has an application pending from a business owner in Ephesus

932
01:23:13,790 --> 01:23:19,490
Fordham and anticipating tonight's enactment of the sign ordinance that will allow these

933
01:23:19,490 --> 01:23:20,990
signs in Ephesus Fordham.

934
01:23:22,230 --> 01:23:26,450
We also believe prohibiting these signs would place some of the older commercial centers

935
01:23:26,450 --> 01:23:31,590
in the district at a disadvantage in comparison to the rest of the community.

936
01:23:34,620 --> 01:23:39,480
So the second key consideration I want to talk about tonight is a topic presented to the

937
01:23:39,480 --> 01:23:42,540
Council by the owner of the vacuum cleaner hospital.

938
01:23:43,380 --> 01:23:47,540
This side is located on Elliott Road between the Galleria.

939
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:49,480
Here's the Galleria.

940
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:57,860
Elliott roads at the bottom of the picture and extraordinary ventures, which is off the page to this side.

941
01:24:00,440 --> 01:24:07,500
The owner of the vacuum cleaner hospital informed the council that the current minimum watch street frontage of 100 feet.

942
01:24:09,100 --> 01:24:14,640
prohibits his business and others in his commercial center from installing a commercial sign.

943
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:20,900
So this yellow line identifies the property line between the commercial center.

944
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:25,560
So here's the commercial area. As these two buildings with several businesses.

945
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:32,500
And our current standard for a commercial center sign states that you must have at least 100 feet

946
01:24:32,500 --> 01:24:38,480
of road frontage in order to put up one of these commercial signs. This particular lot does not have

947
01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:45,340
hundred feet of road frontage. So what we're recommending and the revised ordinance

948
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:53,040
immense, immense, the street frontage standard, and what it states is that the standard

949
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:59,860
in order to put up a commercial center sign would require that shopping area, not a lot.

950
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:09,660
Have a minimum of 100 feet a street frontage. So, combining the frontages of the two lots, equals is greater than 100 feet.

951
01:25:10,420 --> 01:25:15,100
This amendment, as proposed tonight, would allow Mr. Proctor to install the commercial center sign.

952
01:25:17,690 --> 01:25:26,010
So, the final key consideration on note involves reconsidering the standard to calculate the maximum area permitted for wall signage.

953
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:30,410
The current formula is 5% of the building's facade area.

954
01:25:30,410 --> 01:25:35,710
Council members expressed the concern that this formula, although appropriate for buildings

955
01:25:35,710 --> 01:25:41,050
four stories or less, may not be appropriate for buildings taller than four stories.

956
01:25:42,130 --> 01:25:47,270
We believe it is reasonable to limit wall sign area to 5% of the first four stories

957
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:50,890
of a building's facade, regardless of the number of stories.

958
01:25:51,590 --> 01:25:54,350
We have included the standard and revised ordinance.

959
01:25:54,350 --> 01:26:01,530
So, when in this image, in this image here, this line is stopping at the fourth story.

960
01:26:02,010 --> 01:26:10,950
So, what is being proposed is that this facade of the building below the red line would be used to calculate the allowed sign area.

961
01:26:11,290 --> 01:26:16,550
Currently, you would be able to go all the way up to the roof line and include this entire facade.

962
01:26:17,070 --> 01:26:20,450
So, we're recommending that for all buildings regardless of the height,

963
01:26:20,450 --> 01:26:29,390
You're only using the first four floors to calculate the sign area, and that's based on 5% of that facade.

964
01:26:32,100 --> 01:26:37,340
So, in closing, our recommendation is for the council of the whole, is for the council of close to public hearing,

965
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:41,840
adopt the resolution of consistency and enact ordinance 05.

966
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:44,700
I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have.

967
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:47,540
Thank you. Are there clarifying questions?

968
01:26:48,740 --> 01:26:49,160
Mr. Pucker.

969
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:55,920
You know, just at a curiosity, you said East Gate is asking for a commercial center sign.

970
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:01,440
Is that, where will that go on Franklin or on Fordham or on both?

971
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:06,380
I'm fairly certain they're proposing to put one on Fordham.

972
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:11,160
I haven't seen the application directly, so I don't know if they're also proposing one on Franklin.

973
01:27:14,580 --> 01:27:17,720
Okay, are there members of the public wishing to make comments?

974
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:19,780
Please sign up with our clerk.

975
01:27:19,780 --> 01:27:21,140
I see her coming forward.

976
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,260
I'm taking it that Christmas month is going to speak to us.

977
01:27:29,550 --> 01:27:29,970
Okay.

978
01:27:30,690 --> 01:27:34,230
If anyone else is wishing to speak, please come sign up with our clerk and welcome.

979
01:27:37,690 --> 01:27:43,850
Mayor, having our emergency town council last time I was before you, I came here in support of small business Saturday.

980
01:27:44,730 --> 01:27:50,310
And gave each of you bags and you heard from small business owners about how important it is to support them.

981
01:27:50,910 --> 01:27:56,510
In your bags, I don't know if you checked, but there was a older report commissioned by the town that talked about

982
01:27:56,510 --> 01:28:02,910
barriers to small business and signage was one of them and having appropriate signage. You as a

983
01:28:03,430 --> 01:28:09,230
council and certainly town staff have made huge strides and we are excited about all these changes

984
01:28:09,230 --> 01:28:16,950
and definitely support the staff's recommendation tonight. I really appreciate also you a

985
01:28:16,950 --> 01:28:22,710
commenting emphasis for them business vacuum cleaner hospital and it shows maybe some need for

986
01:28:22,710 --> 01:28:25,230
to accommodate their needs.

987
01:28:25,670 --> 01:28:26,950
We support staff recommendations.

988
01:28:27,330 --> 01:28:29,770
We hope that you will enact them tonight.

989
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:31,690
And please let me know if I can be a resource.

990
01:28:32,050 --> 01:28:35,770
Again, of special thanks to Jean Poveromo for all his work on this.

991
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:39,870
And particularly accommodating the needs and desires of small business owners.

992
01:28:41,550 --> 01:28:41,870
Yes, yes.

993
01:28:42,850 --> 01:28:51,870
Chris, can you tell me if you support the recommendation, including the 5% of the four stories?

994
01:28:51,870 --> 01:28:59,990
My understanding, I don't know if it accommodates Carolina Square and have reached out to Jeff

995
01:28:59,990 --> 01:29:01,010
Ferman with him.

996
01:29:01,710 --> 01:29:09,370
And I know that Jean has worked considerably with Jeff Ferman, and he said that the proposed sign

997
01:29:09,370 --> 01:29:12,190
Act Killer Square is within this range.

998
01:29:12,430 --> 01:29:17,870
But I think as we grow and as we grow with with taller buildings, it might be worth

999
01:29:17,870 --> 01:29:21,030
re-examining whether we want to limit it to those four stories.

1000
01:29:22,630 --> 01:29:30,950
And I would like to know if there is any flexibility or a, I think I remember that the

1001
01:29:30,950 --> 01:29:37,310
recommendation included something like 10%, 15% flexibility, right?

1002
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:44,510
So that there was some discretion for to accommodate a particular type of facade or something.

1003
01:29:45,130 --> 01:29:45,870
Is that?

1004
01:29:45,870 --> 01:29:52,350
Yes, that is stolen that is still on the proposed ordinance and to answer your first question

1005
01:29:53,190 --> 01:29:58,930
This change with respect to the facade does not impact Carolina Square at all

1006
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,000
Can you put the off button for us there?

1007
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:03,060
Thank you.

1008
01:30:03,060 --> 01:30:03,700
Got the red button?

1009
01:30:04,020 --> 01:30:04,120
Yeah.

1010
01:30:04,420 --> 01:30:05,580
Thank you.

1011
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:06,720
Sorry, I should say the red red.

1012
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:07,780
Thank you, Kristen.

1013
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:10,100
All right.

1014
01:30:10,740 --> 01:30:13,080
Is anyone else from the public wishing to speak on this item?

1015
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:14,200
So I had sign up.

1016
01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:15,040
Okay, Mr. Parker.

1017
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:16,080
Yeah.

1018
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:22,200
I just want sort of actually represent the views of the planning commission a little bit here.

1019
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:29,840
And I think now, based on your presentation, Jean, I sort of understand the competing needs,

1020
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,500
both of which I think have some validity.

1021
01:30:32,780 --> 01:30:34,980
So I think the planning commission is concerned

1022
01:30:34,980 --> 01:30:38,580
that when Ephesus Fordham is rebuilt, for example.

1023
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:41,360
And let's say we have the A frontages,

1024
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,320
which have relatively, you know,

1025
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,160
I think it's a total of 16 feet or 18 feet

1026
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:48,200
from curb to building facade,

1027
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,280
that putting a sign such as,

1028
01:30:52,380 --> 01:30:55,560
let's say university square a university places sign,

1029
01:30:55,940 --> 01:30:59,000
on that sidewalk would be pretty extrusive.

1030
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,200
And I think that's their concern.

1031
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,500
And on the other hand, I also understand now

1032
01:31:05,500 --> 01:31:10,100
that where we still have some of these older shopping centers,

1033
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:14,980
Ramsplows, E-Scape, which have yet to be redeveloped

1034
01:31:14,980 --> 01:31:19,900
and are still in the traditional suburban shopping center mode,

1035
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,500
a commercial center sign seems entirely appropriate.

1036
01:31:24,340 --> 01:31:26,940
So I guess my question is,

1037
01:31:26,940 --> 01:31:51,820
Should there be some discrimination between signs that are allowed for existing properties versus signs that are allowed after properties are redeveloped and we now have the A, B frontages, because I can understand their perspective that one of these commercial center signs probably would look out of play as much out of place

1038
01:31:51,820 --> 01:31:58,900
Let's say on an a-frontage sidewalk as it would on the middle of Franklin Street

1039
01:31:58,900 --> 01:32:03,520
On the other hand when you get to and we now have two types of B frontages, right?

1040
01:32:03,580 --> 01:32:08,700
We have two frontages that have two rows of parking which is still a similar suburban environment

1041
01:32:08,700 --> 01:32:16,400
And then you have the B frontages that only have one row of parking and so it seems to me that a commercial center sign on a

1042
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:23,180
to row B frontage, probably doesn't seem in Congress, but as you start getting to these narrower

1043
01:32:23,180 --> 01:32:32,160
frontages, I am concerned that these, what are potentially rather large signs, not only look

1044
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:37,140
weird, but they effectively block the sidewalk. And so I was wondering, I want to get your thoughts on

1045
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:38,320
So,

1046
01:32:40,380 --> 01:32:41,400
thanks for the question.

1047
01:32:42,980 --> 01:32:45,380
We're expecting a few things to happen.

1048
01:32:46,860 --> 01:32:50,680
So, one thing that we're expecting to happen on South,

1049
01:32:51,060 --> 01:32:55,480
on South Elliott Road currently there's a speed limit of 35 miles an hour.

1050
01:32:56,100 --> 01:32:58,980
We're anticipating as that develops and as you get more buildings,

1051
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:02,140
if it develops and you have more buildings coming closer to the street

1052
01:33:02,140 --> 01:33:04,820
and you have more pedestrian activity,

1053
01:33:04,820 --> 01:33:07,460
But the speed limit will probably be changed.

1054
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:11,260
You'll probably see a speed limit that's something less than 35 miles an hour.

1055
01:33:11,940 --> 01:33:18,500
So at that point, the larger commercial signs would become non-conforming, and at that point

1056
01:33:18,500 --> 01:33:23,340
the town can determine if they're still an appropriate sign for that street frontage.

1057
01:33:24,340 --> 01:33:33,280
We're also anticipating there's a new building in between whole foods and the mark property.

1058
01:33:34,260 --> 01:33:40,920
We're expecting buildings of that scale and mass would not put up a sign like a commercial

1059
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:42,500
sign because it would be out of place.

1060
01:33:42,980 --> 01:33:50,980
So we're expecting that development naturally would occur in that the larger signs with

1061
01:33:50,980 --> 01:33:56,780
the larger buildings would not fit in with the character and we're expecting that even though

1062
01:33:56,780 --> 01:34:02,760
the larger signs would be allowed that the larger buildings would not come in and propose

1063
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,180
the larger commercial science?

1064
01:34:09,390 --> 01:34:13,070
They would not be allowed to block the sidewalk. Correct. Correct.

1065
01:34:15,770 --> 01:34:22,610
Because the ordinance requires a certain amount of unobstructed. Right, so there'd be a cleared space also.

1066
01:34:23,350 --> 01:34:25,930
That would be required. I don't know if I answered your questions.

1067
01:34:28,710 --> 01:34:34,350
Well, I guess it answers my question. I guess my question back if you will

1068
01:34:34,350 --> 01:34:41,590
is that I'm always concerned or often concerned when we say we expect something to have.

1069
01:34:42,910 --> 01:34:48,650
We hope something will happen and hope is not always a good strategy.

1070
01:34:50,350 --> 01:34:58,550
So I'm wondering if there is in some way perhaps of building these expectations into the code

1071
01:34:58,550 --> 01:34:59,950
so that we're doing more than hope.

1072
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:24,460
So, I actually am in support of the staff's recommendation as someone who has been to what we're describing as what we want to have as something denser and more pedestrian oriented, even though we're admitting this is still a suburban space.

1073
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:50,980
You still need really good way finding, and I've spent a lot of time standing in what looks like a courtyard, which isn't attached to, and sort of, you know, my GPS saying, you're at that place, and I can't find it, because for some reason the sign is so far above my head, I can't see it, or it's on the, somehow that somebody else's sign has covered it fine and it's on the other facade.

1074
01:35:50,980 --> 01:35:58,660
And so I am, because of that experience and because of what were all the changes that are going

1075
01:35:58,660 --> 01:36:05,720
down in that area, I feel like, um, airing on the side of allowing people to figure out

1076
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:16,660
how to get around, um, feels more comfortable to me, um, and I think kind of what you're

1077
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:32,440
And I think it is something that we have experienced mostly and my question, my question was the question about the signage on the medical buildings on Timberline and MLK.

1078
01:36:32,500 --> 01:36:33,200
We have a crossing.

1079
01:36:33,460 --> 01:36:35,020
We have a crossing as I was called.

1080
01:36:36,260 --> 01:36:45,920
So during that conversation with another one of my council members, I expressed the fact that sometimes we all fall prey to preciousness here in Chapel Hill.

1081
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:54,200
And this idea that, you know, we control the aesthetics of everything and sometimes I think

1082
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:59,480
function just, the whole biz is that whoever's building there, the aesthetics is important to

1083
01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:09,260
them too. That having it look jumbled or confusing would only confuse their clientele also.

1084
01:37:09,260 --> 01:37:27,320
And so I'm leaning towards allowing within these parameters the market to do what it does in favor of it being easy for people to find figure out where they're going to go things are getting more and more complicated.

1085
01:37:28,740 --> 01:37:35,580
you know, we have an altar down there now. I only knew that because I was driving

1086
01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:43,980
by the sign and it was there but it's in the center of a commercial center. So, yeah,

1087
01:37:44,180 --> 01:37:49,480
I've said enough. I'm supportive of anything that supports people being able to

1088
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:52,560
figure out where they're going and I think that this is one of the things we can use.

1089
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:57,180
It's tricky because we're in a place where the market is changing, it's going from

1090
01:37:57,180 --> 01:38:04,360
redevelopment from an old suburban style to a more dense development. So it's kind of a tricky

1091
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:05,060
balance.

1092
01:38:07,140 --> 01:38:11,920
I believe we are looking at design standards for this district. So the way finding

1093
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:17,700
and what you're talking about, there may be an opportunity to do something with the design standards

1094
01:38:17,700 --> 01:38:26,220
to kind of address the concerns I'm hearing. I would hope not to hold up tonight's action because

1095
01:38:26,220 --> 01:38:33,300
of that topic, but I think there's an opportunity to address it with the design standards

1096
01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:40,040
and when we come back at a workshop, work session with additional information on other

1097
01:38:40,700 --> 01:38:41,260
signage.

1098
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:43,620
Mr. Santhiola?

1099
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:43,980
Yeah.

1100
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:50,300
I think Donna said a lot of what I want to say, but I support the staff's recommendation at this

1101
01:38:50,300 --> 01:38:57,160
point in time. I think not only the council, but the community has voiced support for trying

1102
01:38:57,160 --> 01:39:02,840
to retain as many small businesses as we can. And I can't think of much the, I mean,

1103
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:08,660
I think signage is so critical to these small businesses. I mean, especially if you have

1104
01:39:08,660 --> 01:39:12,920
new people come to the community, they look something up online, they're trying to figure out,

1105
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:18,620
okay, where is that now? It says it's on L.A. Robo, we're on, I mean, you know, you're in a car,

1106
01:39:18,620 --> 01:39:23,580
you're driving, you're trying to figure out, okay, you know, I don't want to drive past and then

1107
01:39:23,580 --> 01:39:29,600
I'm going to have to turn around. I think signage is really critical to the small businesses and I can

1108
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:35,620
see the point that, you know, this is going to change over time and as it becomes more walkable,

1109
01:39:35,740 --> 01:39:41,280
it's going to change. But I think for the moment what we have for the most part are small businesses

1110
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:47,120
and they need to sign it and I think staff will continue to work to look at how this is going to

1111
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:54,260
to evolve, either with the design standards or some modifications to the science regulations.

1112
01:39:54,580 --> 01:39:59,900
But I think for the moment, what we have a lot of in this community, our small businesses.

1113
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:11,260
This is the need as much help as they can get. And so I think moving forward with this now is what I would prefer to do. And so I'm comfortable with the staff's recommendation. Mr. Harrison.

1114
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:23,600
Gene, that's, I was, the map one was looking good, but that's also good. Those are all, I believe I'm correct, grandfathered signs under this, right? They've already been, you know.

1115
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:31,920
These were permitted prior to the Ephesus forum district for the district being enacted right off the

1116
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:38,300
sign regions we did in the last few years though right yes this would have could have that big okay and I

1117
01:40:38,300 --> 01:40:45,820
sent it an email about what seemed to be a store of one store sign in Rans Plaza which I guess is a

1118
01:40:45,820 --> 01:40:51,320
commercial ground site is a CVS sign which didn't appear to be on our front edge like when you're

1119
01:40:52,260 --> 01:40:56,040
If you want to look at signs sitting on the top level, buses are a really good place to

1120
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:59,860
look at good look at signs, particularly with my spouse looking for signs at the same

1121
01:40:59,860 --> 01:41:04,200
time as I was, we found everything you could see when you're stopped at SSR's Road

1122
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:07,960
Enforcement, so at least one of those.

1123
01:41:10,260 --> 01:41:15,840
But as Michael said, hope is not a great strategy in terms of how things are going to come

1124
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:16,940
out, didn't work with the election.

1125
01:41:18,820 --> 01:41:26,460
So, I am concerned, I mean, we're reasonably predicting that because we own Elliott Road,

1126
01:41:26,660 --> 01:41:28,160
we can lower the speed limit to 25.

1127
01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:37,280
We could also, if somehow we came up with the funds by the short stretch of FSA's church road,

1128
01:41:37,700 --> 01:41:42,260
the single back to, I mean, basically would traffic a stop most of the time and that would

1129
01:41:42,260 --> 01:41:48,520
be a 25-hour speed limit as well. I think people ought to be going 25 there anyway.

1130
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:56,820
So if you switch back to the speed limit sign, basically the state roads in there would be

1131
01:41:56,820 --> 01:42:05,380
where you could put commercial center signs. All those, I mean, assume you're the six dots

1132
01:42:06,440 --> 01:42:09,460
where we're talking about having them. It could be another center in there at some point.

1133
01:42:09,460 --> 01:42:22,760
The dots are identifying the existing commercial centers that meet the minimum standard of being 8,000 square feet, and having a mix of retail and office.

1134
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:24,820
So right now that's happening.

1135
01:42:24,820 --> 01:42:25,000
That's happening.

1136
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:25,760
Right now, certainly.

1137
01:42:26,180 --> 01:42:32,660
In Ephesus, these are the only developments that could have a commercial in some of our centers.

1138
01:42:33,220 --> 01:42:37,440
Yeah, the only one to do not have one is the vacuum cleaner hospital.

1139
01:42:38,380 --> 01:42:41,500
Bill, it goes Plaza and East Gate.

1140
01:42:43,760 --> 01:42:45,600
The three in the image I have here,

1141
01:42:45,620 --> 01:42:48,320
these are the three existing signs in the district.

1142
01:42:49,220 --> 01:42:51,520
Well, so it's a little more than hope

1143
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:54,760
that that's the limit of how many brown signs we have.

1144
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:56,200
I guess.

1145
01:42:57,140 --> 01:42:57,520
Right.

1146
01:42:57,940 --> 01:42:58,420
Okay.

1147
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:00,500
That's, I wanted to make sure of that.

1148
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:01,420
Okay. Thank you.

1149
01:43:01,560 --> 01:43:02,480
Ms. Ots.

1150
01:43:04,150 --> 01:43:06,750
You're talking about a 14-foot wall,

1151
01:43:06,750 --> 01:43:13,650
though of science. I think there's there's way finding and there's there's hiding

1152
01:43:13,650 --> 01:43:20,290
businesses on the on the on the sea frontages then yes a 12 to 14 foot tall

1153
01:43:20,290 --> 01:43:26,190
sign would be appropriate but the idea is that on the A and B frontages those are

1154
01:43:26,190 --> 01:43:30,830
going to be roads where the traffic is moving slower so that as you're driving

1155
01:43:30,830 --> 01:43:36,050
by you'll be able to see the sign on the building and be able to find it. I think

1156
01:43:36,050 --> 01:43:42,530
One of the things that the planning department understands is that we're hiring a, we've

1157
01:43:42,530 --> 01:43:49,950
hired a designer to help us come up with this idea of a walkable, shopable, different sort

1158
01:43:49,950 --> 01:43:57,290
of commercial area than what you would find in that stretch of 15501 near New Hope Commons.

1159
01:43:58,130 --> 01:44:03,370
And for that, if that's what we do end up with, then on, on, for the Boulevard, we could

1160
01:44:03,370 --> 01:44:10,710
have those kind of signs. But when you turn off into the shopping, the walkable parts, you

1161
01:44:10,710 --> 01:44:17,330
would not want a 12 to 14-foot wall of signs. And I certainly can understand the planning

1162
01:44:17,330 --> 01:44:19,450
commissions thinking on that.

1163
01:44:24,450 --> 01:44:24,730
Ms. Green?

1164
01:44:26,450 --> 01:44:28,890
I'll support the staff's recommendation. I'd like to move.

1165
01:44:29,410 --> 01:44:29,550
I haven't.

1166
01:44:29,730 --> 01:44:37,990
I just want to say I'm really, really supportive of small businesses, especially, and

1167
01:44:37,990 --> 01:44:42,350
And as we are changing and developing, I think it's really crucial with all the construction

1168
01:44:42,350 --> 01:44:46,950
going on, with all the different angles that are going on now, especially in this district,

1169
01:44:47,150 --> 01:44:52,690
that we have ability for businesses to have the signs that people are getting used to seeing.

1170
01:44:53,350 --> 01:44:59,970
I think I find that safer to have those grounds support sign.

1171
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:12,080
All the business is listed. I find it safer to look at that and look for where I'm going, whether I'm driving or walking. I know that they're in there somewhere. That gives me a sense of feeling. I think a lot of customers feel the same way.

1172
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:19,320
And that's why businesses like to congregate them on signs like that. And I think they can be done so far. The ones that are out there have been done in very good manner.

1173
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:29,360
And they've been informative and helpful. I love the idea of moving towards consistency with the emphasis for the district and the rest of town. It makes it easier to navigate our system.

1174
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:38,840
when you're applying for signs to know how to work the process, and trying to think we're

1175
01:45:38,840 --> 01:45:43,960
able to get the, sorry, looking for that, less confusing, and I like them at I level,

1176
01:45:43,980 --> 01:45:47,880
most of these tend to be at that I level as you're driving and looking around as far as,

1177
01:45:47,900 --> 01:45:52,580
and then that brings you away, in my opinion, from all the businesses having competing, competing

1178
01:45:52,580 --> 01:45:57,580
signs in their front windows and front business displays, it's there, it's work and it's

1179
01:45:57,580 --> 01:46:06,900
So I do understand some of the concerns, but I also think in this time of growth and change we need to do things that help our businesses stay in business and be more productive.

1180
01:46:07,940 --> 01:46:12,480
So I support the staff's recommendation as well, but I will move to Ms. Green now.

1181
01:46:12,740 --> 01:46:16,600
I'd like to move R2, which is the resolution of consistency with the comprehensive plan.

1182
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:31,820
are nine, which one are two aren't we moving our nine. We have to close the public hearing and move. Is that right? Can we do it all in one? Okay. So you are.

1183
01:46:31,820 --> 01:46:39,100
Ms. Green is motioning to close the public hearing and adopt resolution of consistency our nine and enact the ordinance.

1184
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:46,260
Okay, and just check in. Okay, so close the public hearing and adopt the resolution of R9 is there a second to that motion

1185
01:46:46,260 --> 01:46:49,200
like muffled through. All right.

1186
01:46:50,240 --> 01:46:53,200
Ms. Green, Ms. Palmer. Okay. Any more comments?

1187
01:46:54,060 --> 01:46:54,820
Ms. Oates.

1188
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:04,100
We had a, I attended a lecture last week from an urban designer and he was talking about how the,

1189
01:47:04,100 --> 01:47:11,100
But the signs on the individual businesses can be considered art, public art, and he gave

1190
01:47:11,100 --> 01:47:13,240
some good examples of that.

1191
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:16,260
So I think that's something too I'd like to see.

1192
01:47:16,380 --> 01:47:18,900
I'd like to encourage in our businesses.

1193
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:22,200
I don't see it as looking cluttered.

1194
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:26,360
I see it as offering some visual interest.

1195
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:29,640
Any other comments?

1196
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:30,280
All right.

1197
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:35,160
All those in favor, please say aye, any opposed, please raise your hand, nay.

1198
01:47:36,220 --> 01:47:40,420
Motion is unanimous, so now we enact the ordinance that, or is it enacted?

1199
01:47:42,850 --> 01:47:45,730
We've got to move the ordinance. Well, he flipped over. Put it back for us.

1200
01:47:48,420 --> 01:47:50,000
Is there a motion? Ms. Green?

1201
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:55,180
Sure. I'm moved of five, which is an ordinance enacting a land use management ordinance.

1202
01:47:55,260 --> 01:48:00,560
Text amendment to section five, point four, signs and section three, 11, four, four,

1203
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:04,100
on standards, this section 311, and this is Ford and Form District.

1204
01:48:04,480 --> 01:48:04,700
Second.

1205
01:48:05,340 --> 01:48:08,740
Move by Ms. Greene, seconded by my Mr. Parker, any discussion?

1206
01:48:10,060 --> 01:48:13,700
I will just say thank you to the staff and everyone who's wondering if you're hard on this

1207
01:48:13,700 --> 01:48:17,840
and trying to promote our businesses and signage and making a consistent, I think it's important.

1208
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:20,280
All those in favor, please say aye.

1209
01:48:20,340 --> 01:48:20,660
Aye.

1210
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:22,700
Any opposed, please raise your hand, nay.

1211
01:48:22,980 --> 01:48:24,100
Motion is unanimous.

1212
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:24,600
Thank you.

1213
01:48:24,940 --> 01:48:26,380
Thank you.

1214
01:48:26,380 --> 01:48:26,960
All right.

1215
01:48:28,020 --> 01:48:42,620
We are moving the library internet policy to our meeting in January, so that brings us to item number 11 to open the public hearing for the issuance of two-thirds bond to fund the purchase of public safety equipment.

1216
01:48:46,480 --> 01:48:47,440
Mr. Pinoyer.

1217
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:49,800
Good evening, Ken Finoyer, Director of Business Management.

1218
01:48:52,650 --> 01:48:58,050
This item is the public hearing and adoption of a bond order for proposed two-thirds bonds.

1219
01:48:58,550 --> 01:49:03,710
Also, with the adoption of a resolution of proving a publication of notice of bond order adoption,

1220
01:49:04,730 --> 01:49:06,210
I have six slides.

1221
01:49:06,430 --> 01:49:07,810
It should take me about five minutes.

1222
01:49:09,330 --> 01:49:13,510
The approval schedule for the two-thirds bonds included a preliminary resolution

1223
01:49:13,510 --> 01:49:18,490
adopted by Council October 26th, and also an introduction of the bond order

1224
01:49:18,490 --> 01:49:21,050
and setting of the public hearing on November 7th.

1225
01:49:21,730 --> 01:49:26,370
Tonight is the public hearing adoption of the bond order and adoption of a resolution

1226
01:49:26,370 --> 01:49:32,250
authorizing publication of adoption of bond order notice.

1227
01:49:33,970 --> 01:49:38,570
On January 3, we're expecting the LGC, the local government commission to approve the

1228
01:49:38,570 --> 01:49:45,490
issuance of the bonds, and we will be coming back to Council January 9 for an issuance

1229
01:49:45,490 --> 01:49:51,390
resolution for both the two-thirds bonds and also for referendum bonds.

1230
01:49:51,390 --> 01:49:58,050
Local Government Commission will conduct the sale as a competitive sale on January 31st,

1231
01:49:58,650 --> 01:49:59,950
and we are expecting closing of the box.

1232
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:20,260
Two-thirds bonds are general obligation bonds that can be issued without a vote of the public. They can be issued basically in an amount equal to two-thirds of the reduction of general obligation outstanding principle from the previous year.

1233
01:50:20,260 --> 01:50:29,700
So for as an example, if the town paid down $3 million of general obligation bond principle in 2016,

1234
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:37,820
it could then be eligible to issue up to $2 million of general obligation to third bonds in 2017.

1235
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:48,760
The actual amounts for us in 2016 was a reduction of principle of $2,190,000, which makes us eligible to issue

1236
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:53,760
2,000 bonds in the amount of $1,460,000 for fiscal year.

1237
01:50:55,600 --> 01:51:07,020
Our intended use of those bonds is to buy a fire ladder truck for $1,348,000, and also emergency radio equipment for $1,012,000.

1238
01:51:07,020 --> 01:51:17,860
We're planning on doing a 10-year financing which will give us debt service payments of approximately 160 to 180 thousand dollars per year depending on the final interest rate.

1239
01:51:20,170 --> 01:51:21,730
In November of 2007,

1240
01:51:24,010 --> 01:51:29,810
2015, the voters approved $40.3 million of referendum bonds.

1241
01:51:29,810 --> 01:51:38,890
We're also planning to concurrently issue $9 million of those referendum bonds with our two-thirds bonds in January.

1242
01:51:39,910 --> 01:51:48,510
So altogether, the two-thirds bonds plus the January issuance of referendum bonds equals $10.46 million that we are currently planning.

1243
01:51:50,470 --> 01:51:56,710
The next steps in this process are basically tonight's holding of a public hearing on the proposed two-thirds bonds,

1244
01:51:56,710 --> 01:52:04,710
adoption of the bond order are 12 and also adoption of the resolution approving the bond order adoption notice

1245
01:52:04,710 --> 01:52:06,610
which is our 13.

1246
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:10,740
Thank you. Any clarifying questions?

1247
01:52:12,760 --> 01:52:15,800
Any members of the public wishing to speak on this item?

1248
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:19,900
Any comments from Council?

1249
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:23,800
Yes.

1250
01:52:24,820 --> 01:52:30,340
I know I asked this before but can you tell me why they're called two third bonds again? Yes.

1251
01:52:30,340 --> 01:52:38,560
They're called two-thirds bonds because the issuance limitation is two-thirds of the reduction

1252
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:41,920
of principle for general obligations in the previous year.

1253
01:52:42,060 --> 01:52:47,560
So if you paid down three million last year, you can then issue an additional two million

1254
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:48,560
in the current year.

1255
01:52:48,700 --> 01:52:53,860
So that's two-thirds of what you're spending down, you can then restore as new bonds.

1256
01:52:53,860 --> 01:52:56,440
Thank you. Mr. Harrison.

1257
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:00,160
Not a concern, but just to to the public.

1258
01:53:01,200 --> 01:53:02,840
When we pay our Chapel Hill taxes,

1259
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:04,920
we pay into a debt management fund,

1260
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:07,600
which was set up at a decade ago,

1261
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:08,820
about when Roger got here.

1262
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:11,880
And this is a really great example of why we have that fund,

1263
01:53:11,900 --> 01:53:13,900
and why we spend summer with taxes on it.

1264
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:15,960
It makes this possible.

1265
01:53:16,780 --> 01:53:17,840
If you possible otherwise,

1266
01:53:18,060 --> 01:53:19,140
it would be a lot harder.

1267
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:21,480
Thank you, Mr. C. O'Brien.

1268
01:53:21,480 --> 01:53:25,900
can is the 9 million in the general obligation bonds that most of

1269
01:53:25,900 --> 01:53:27,700
we could issue at this point.

1270
01:53:29,300 --> 01:53:35,780
That number is based on our estimate of cash flow over the next 12 to 18 months.

1271
01:53:36,340 --> 01:53:41,860
So that represents what we believe we can reasonably spend within the next 12 to 18 months.

1272
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:46,560
A lot of the projects are in the initial phases where we're doing pre-construction,

1273
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:54,100
design and acquisition. So the cost tend to ramp up a little bit more slowly. So that should

1274
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:59,460
last us at least for 12 months and then we'll probably have another issuance about 12 months

1275
01:53:59,460 --> 01:54:07,200
from this. And is that there are 12 month limit between G.O. bonds that you have a way at least 12

1276
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:12,900
months before you go back again. Actually, no, there isn't that just is kind of a convenient

1277
01:54:12,900 --> 01:54:19,100
space of time for us to get a lot of these projects that we're currently working on ahead

1278
01:54:19,100 --> 01:54:23,940
of steam so that we're actually spending money and we're getting to a point where we have

1279
01:54:23,940 --> 01:54:28,620
some degree of certainty about the feasibility of the projects and also the cost of the projects.

1280
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:35,460
And I presume that we're looking at the interest rates carefully with a little nervousness.

1281
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:42,880
Yes, as a matter of fact I look at them this week and they have bumped up in the last

1282
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:50,660
month we are still six if you look at the 10 year triple A municipal bond we are still six

1283
01:54:50,660 --> 01:54:57,460
basis points lower than we were one year ago so in the big picture we are still in a good place

1284
01:54:57,460 --> 01:54:59,960
however relative to a month ago we're considerably high.

1285
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:04,000
Because we hit kind of a trough in that last few months.

1286
01:55:04,580 --> 01:55:05,300
Miss Anderson?

1287
01:55:08,510 --> 01:55:15,470
Just from my own curiosity. So, is this usually how we buy fire trough?

1288
01:55:15,970 --> 01:55:19,030
What do we usually do this for?

1289
01:55:19,530 --> 01:55:22,810
This is kind of an opportunity that came up.

1290
01:55:22,950 --> 01:55:28,130
This particular trough has had some serious service and maintenance issues.

1291
01:55:28,130 --> 01:55:32,710
So it's a matter of timing, and the two-thirds bonds being available at this time.

1292
01:55:33,670 --> 01:55:37,970
Normally, we've done a number of financing methods.

1293
01:55:38,310 --> 01:55:41,130
We either do an installment financing for a truck.

1294
01:55:41,770 --> 01:55:46,750
This gives us an opportunity to use two-thirds general obligation bonds, which are generally lower cost.

1295
01:55:47,210 --> 01:55:52,310
So the timing to happen to be right in terms of our needs meets our capacity to do the two-thirds.

1296
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:58,110
And do we have a sense, is this kind of an anomaly that this truck is being a pain?

1297
01:55:58,650 --> 01:56:03,690
Or do we have a sense that this is going to come again in another year or two years?

1298
01:56:04,250 --> 01:56:14,690
I think that this particular vehicle has had issues over its, I think, eight years plus life span.

1299
01:56:15,050 --> 01:56:18,890
And it's spent about 20% of his time being repaired.

1300
01:56:18,890 --> 01:56:27,110
And I think it's also a function of the fact that it does get used a bit, so yeah, we are,

1301
01:56:27,130 --> 01:56:34,290
the fire department is taking measures to make sure that their next purchase is something

1302
01:56:34,290 --> 01:56:35,490
a little bit more robust.

1303
01:56:37,210 --> 01:56:38,170
Thank you.

1304
01:56:38,410 --> 01:56:38,650
Okay.

1305
01:56:39,630 --> 01:56:40,150
Is there a motion?

1306
01:56:43,570 --> 01:56:43,910
Is there a motion?

1307
01:56:44,630 --> 01:56:45,110
Is there a motion?

1308
01:56:45,710 --> 01:56:46,990
Are 12 and are 13?

1309
01:56:47,630 --> 01:56:47,830
Oh.

1310
01:56:48,590 --> 01:56:49,450
I move our 12?

1311
01:56:49,450 --> 01:56:53,690
on the audience in the audience we want to make sure we

1312
01:56:53,690 --> 01:56:59,850
okay so there's a motion to move our 12 by Mr. Parker second by Ms. Palmer any more discussion

1313
01:56:59,850 --> 01:57:05,790
all in favor please say aye I any opposed please raise your hand nay motion passes

1314
01:57:05,790 --> 01:57:14,630
Mr. Parker I move our 13 Ms. Palmer a second then move by Mr. Parker and second by Ms. Palmer

1315
01:57:14,630 --> 01:57:21,150
like the Parker Palmer combination there. Any more discussion or questions? I will say thank you for

1316
01:57:21,150 --> 01:57:26,070
working this all out for us and for explaining it to us and getting us in this wonderful position.

1317
01:57:27,010 --> 01:57:33,290
All in favor, please say aye. Any opposed, please raise your hand, nay. Motion is unanimous. Thank you very much.

1318
01:57:33,530 --> 01:57:40,430
I feel safe for already. Thank you, Mr. Bond attorney. That brings us to our next item on the agenda.

1319
01:57:41,290 --> 01:57:46,190
We've just authorized the town manager to execute historic Rogers Road neighborhood sewer

1320
01:57:46,190 --> 01:57:52,130
project interlocal agreement with Orange County and we have a revised resolution

1321
01:57:53,030 --> 01:57:55,030
in the blue folder,

1322
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:00,980
so even with a part of the file, I think that's what we got.

1323
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:11,960
So this is another historic decision tonight and Chapel Hill is the first jurisdiction

1324
01:58:11,960 --> 01:58:14,620
to consider this agreement.

1325
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:26,360
This is a map of the Rogers Road area, which I'm sure you're

1326
01:58:26,360 --> 01:58:31,940
all familiar with. It is northwest area of the town outside the city limits, but within

1327
01:58:31,940 --> 01:58:35,540
the town's extraterritorial jurisdiction.

1328
01:58:37,740 --> 01:58:41,040
Highlighted here and the lighter color are

1329
01:58:41,040 --> 01:58:48,260
86 heritage lots that were identified by the Rogers Road Task Force and showing the proposed

1330
01:58:48,260 --> 01:58:49,660
sewer lines in red.

1331
01:58:50,480 --> 01:58:59,060
There are 19,000 linear feet of sewer, 3.5 miles of main line, 68% of this area is within the

1332
01:58:59,060 --> 01:59:01,260
Chapel Hill extra territory of jurisdiction.

1333
01:59:01,260 --> 01:59:12,050
The green lots are what we have come to know as passerby lots in order to serve the 86

1334
01:59:12,050 --> 01:59:12,730
lots.

1335
01:59:13,210 --> 01:59:16,530
We have to pass through these to get there.

1336
01:59:16,930 --> 01:59:23,050
These lots will be served with a stub out and when these lots develop, those owners will

1337
01:59:23,050 --> 01:59:28,550
pay for their sewer service, unlike the 86 slots in the historic Rogers Road area.

1338
01:59:29,830 --> 01:59:42,150
Here are the calls that are outlined and shown in the proposed agreement, including everything from the community center to planning and outreach that the Jackson Center helped us with.

1339
01:59:42,490 --> 01:59:50,690
The engineering and design acquiring the easements and now the Biggie sewer construction, so you had previously approved all the other calls.

1340
01:59:50,690 --> 01:59:59,510
This just wraps it all up into one document and Chapel Hill share of this amount is $3.1 million.

1341
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:15,860
The county will pay for this by borrowing the money, and we will pay it back over 20 years, and as I indicated earlier, then that $158,000 per year would be wrapped into your annual operating budget.

1342
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:28,520
So this shows the procedures that Chapel Hill Carver and Orange County would pay the percentages of 43% each for Orange County and Chapel Hill and 14% for Carver.

1343
02:00:28,980 --> 02:00:45,840
There are multiple ways that you could think about trying to divide up these costs, but all of the discussions so far have landed on this particular percentage, which is based on the 1972 landfill agreement that created the landfill, which is part of what we're trying to correct.

1344
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:49,500
the issues surrounding that location of that landfill.

1345
02:00:51,320 --> 02:00:56,660
So here is kind of a history of where the issue has been in 1972.

1346
02:00:56,820 --> 02:00:59,160
The landfill was cited on Ubank's road.

1347
02:00:59,800 --> 02:01:04,660
In 2000, Orange County spent about $600 and $75,000 in

1348
02:01:04,660 --> 02:01:07,040
installing water lines in the area.

1349
02:01:07,780 --> 02:01:10,020
And people have signed up for that water service.

1350
02:01:10,020 --> 02:01:18,280
There was then a task force created in 2013 that consisted of two county commissioners,

1351
02:01:18,620 --> 02:01:22,220
two alderman, two council members, and two representatives of Rina.

1352
02:01:23,040 --> 02:01:28,340
And they met for about a year and a half, and the governing bodies and tasks the managers

1353
02:01:28,340 --> 02:01:30,640
to find a way to install the sewer.

1354
02:01:31,420 --> 02:01:37,160
One of the exciting things that come out of the engagement process with the community is

1355
02:01:37,160 --> 02:01:41,980
discussion about community first planning and resigning a community that will

1356
02:01:41,980 --> 02:01:46,880
happen in this area that meets some of the interests and needs expressed by

1357
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:52,140
the people who live there. So that report is attached as a copy is an attachment

1358
02:01:52,140 --> 02:01:57,040
to your item tonight and we'll make a presentation of that report in the spring of

1359
02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:04,080
next year. So tonight you are considering a resolution to authorize the town manager

1360
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:09,200
to execute an interlocal agreement, and then Carboro and Orange County would follow and

1361
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:12,340
construction could begin in June of 2017.

1362
02:02:13,660 --> 02:02:19,240
So the recommendation is the adoption of the revised resolution R14 in the blue folder,

1363
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:21,160
which authorizes that execution.

1364
02:02:22,060 --> 02:02:27,120
And why it's different is that this could be there be a 2-party agreement between the town

1365
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:31,140
and the county, or 3-party agreement between the town, the county, and Carboro.

1366
02:02:31,140 --> 02:02:37,880
All the provisions would be the same in terms of outlining the town to call us and how we would pay it back.

1367
02:02:38,140 --> 02:02:43,280
This resolution would authorize me to execute an agreement whether it's a two-party or three-party.

1368
02:02:44,220 --> 02:02:48,280
So we're not holding up moving forward with a construction of the sewer line.

1369
02:02:50,550 --> 02:02:52,370
Thank you. Any clarifying questions?

1370
02:02:54,850 --> 02:02:56,850
We have members of the public wishing to speak.

1371
02:02:58,270 --> 02:02:59,630
Does anyone signed up to speak?

1372
02:03:00,950 --> 02:03:06,210
Well, I'm going to start by making a statement that I'm very excited and very pleased that

1373
02:03:06,210 --> 02:03:11,370
our town is moving forward to correct something that was promised many many years ago

1374
02:03:11,370 --> 02:03:14,910
and I'm very, very pleased we've found a way to do it and that we're moving forward.

1375
02:03:18,650 --> 02:03:18,710
Yeah.

1376
02:03:19,930 --> 02:03:23,270
So, are there any discussion points or can we move this motion?

1377
02:03:26,630 --> 02:03:27,470
I move off 14.

1378
02:03:27,790 --> 02:03:29,130
Move by Mr. Parker.

1379
02:03:29,410 --> 02:03:30,250
Mr. Seale.

1380
02:03:30,770 --> 02:03:31,630
Mr. Seale.

1381
02:03:31,630 --> 02:03:32,070
Mr. Seale.

1382
02:03:32,350 --> 02:03:39,350
is seconding it? Okay, move by Mr. Parker, second by Mr. Sanciano, any more comments other than yes.

1383
02:03:40,670 --> 02:03:47,010
All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, please raise your hand, nay? Motion is overwhelmingly

1384
02:03:47,010 --> 02:03:49,030
unanimous. Thank you very much.

1385
02:03:51,340 --> 02:03:56,520
All right. That brings us to the end of our agenda for this evening. So

1386
02:03:56,520 --> 02:04:02,820
wishing everyone a happy holiday season, we will be back January 9 for our next council meeting.

1387
02:04:02,820 --> 02:04:09,840
There's other individual meetings going on with all your committees and assignments, but this is the end of 2016.

1388
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:14,960
So, with that being said, meeting is adjourned. Thank you.