[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners' regular and land use meeting for Tuesday, July 28th, 2026. Let the record show all commissioners are present. We also have the clerk of the Court, Mr. Roger Eaton, joining us on the dius today. If you wish, please rise for the invocation given by Reverend Larry Yerter of our savorin Savior, Lutheran Church, followed by the pledge.
[0:26] Let's pray. I want to God you have blessed this land with many things, but we are also
[0:37] ourachiotic people. We thank you for bringing together people such as those before me who
[0:44] debate and think and work and make it safe and advantageous for our lives. We have to continue
[0:51] to bless the Lord and its work for those who support them, for all those here today who
[0:56] interested and concerned about what goes on here in our county, our state, our country, and
[1:02] our world. We are in a middle of hurricane season so far nothing has happened and we ask
[1:08] that you continue to have blessing for us. You keep those who are safe. All those who are in
[1:14] hurricane path help us to help those who need it and help us to accept the systems when we need
[1:21] ourselves.
[1:24] But as you bless these people, all those here and all those in this county and across
[1:29] the world who call upon you, let them all feel your love and your compassion and your closeness.
[1:39] Help us remember that we are never alone. And nothing, that dungeons, that powers, that angels,
[1:45] that principalities, nothing can separate us into love of God and Christ, so let's hold to that.
[1:50] here in the power of Christ, we stand. Amen. Amen.
[1:57] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
[2:03] public for which it stands, one nation and another, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
[2:13] Thank you, Reverend Yerder. Mr. Forrest, change this to the agenda.
[2:19] Thank you, Mr. Chair commissioners. I'll go ahead and read through the change of memo.
[2:24] First, we have edition number one, and that was item S8.
[2:28] We added the public here, setting the public hearing regarding county right away.
[2:32] Change number one to S2, added the attachment to the Metro forecasting item.
[2:39] Change number two to S6, added attachment, and also updated the language to that item.
[2:45] Related to the animal welfare league, and then change number three to S7.
[2:52] We attach the resolution for that item, same for change number 4 to VB2, attach the resolution, and change number 5 was to D2 updated the language regarding the location for host holding the upcoming budget meetings September at the event center, and then adjusting the dates as well to change number 6 Q2 added the attachments that's the piece river water authority the upcoming agenda for discussion, and then change number
[3:22] Number seven is to item H1, and that is a attachment also for the upcoming WCAND agenda.
[3:29] Thank you.
[3:30] Mr. Chairman of the changes.
[3:31] So, where most of the second to move changes, is there any further discussion?
[3:35] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[3:37] That passage in animals.
[3:38] Let's change it.
[3:39] Mr. Chairman of the motion.
[3:40] Motion and second to the motion.
[3:42] Is there any further discussion?
[3:44] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[3:45] That passage unanimously, and commission authority, you have the honours sir.
[3:49] That will be followed by employee recognition.
[3:59] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, everyone.
[4:00] Good morning, sir.
[4:02] We have two proclamations this morning.
[4:05] The first is a 75th anniversary of the Punta Gordor Bokello.
[4:09] On August 31, 1951, the Punta Gordor Bokello was officially organized
[4:14] and now celebrates 75 years of voting history for the community.
[4:18] In July of 1951, Chamber President John Rose actively pursued and promoted water-oriented tourism
[4:26] in our predominantly fish and cattle county, and the Punagora Boaclub held the first locally
[4:34] sanctioned American Power Boat Association Regatta in 1952, then included 9,000 spectators,
[4:41] probably close to the entire population of the county at that time.
[4:44] The Pontagord of Vocal of Foundation provides charitable contributions to Gulf Shore of
[4:50] Sailing School, Community Resource Network, and Crossroads Academy.
[4:55] The Charlotte County wishes to recognize the formative and lasting.
[5:00] History of Boding in our community, created by the Pana Gordaboke Club, and expresses its profound gratitude for 75 years of service that has enriched the lives of our residents and continually strengthens the foundation of our community.
[5:13] Now, therefore, be a proclaim that August 31, 2026 shall be designated and observed in Charlotte County as the 75th anniversary of Pana Gordaboke Club.
[5:23] And accepting, it's Commodore, Sue and Fembro, and Carol Bern.
[6:08] Okay, the second proclamation this morning is Florida Water Professionals Month.
[6:13] The Florida Water and Pollution Control Operators Association is a nonprofit trade organization
[6:19] that promotes the sustainability of Florida's Water Utility Industry through workforce development
[6:24] to protect the health of Florida citizens and to preserve the state's water resources.
[6:29] This organization offers water distribution, water and wastewater treatment plant operated
[6:34] training courses required with the state of Florida's operator licenses, voluntary certification
[6:40] programs and continuing education programs for operator license renewal and this organization
[6:46] in recognizing the importance of the Florida statutes in administrative code that regulate
[6:52] the water industry acts as a liaison between the Florida Department of Environmental Protection
[6:57] and industry personnel. Water professionals are often emergency responders during storms
[7:02] and other catastrophic events, working to ensure safe drinking water and safe disposal
[7:08] of wastewater for our communities. The Florida Water and Pollution Control operates
[7:13] the association recognizes all those who have played a significant part in operating and maintaining
[7:19] drinking water wastewater and storm water systems in Florida by celebrating Florida Water
[7:24] professionals month, which applies to their constant efforts to protect our health and
[7:29] environment.
[7:30] Now, therefore, be it proclaimed that the month of August, 2026 shall be designated
[7:34] observed in Charlotte County as Florida Water Professionals Month, and all citizens
[7:39] are encouraged to join us in thanking all water and wastewater professionals for their
[7:44] hard work and dedication to preserving Florida's water resources.
[7:47] and accepting is a bunch of folks from CCU.
[7:52] Jeremy Frost, Ken Stecker, Kenny Hall, Ross Lynch, Tony Smith, Duane Smith, Bill,
[8:00] Han Felder, and Mike Closer.
[8:32] All right, commissioners, we have a full room, which is always good to see as far as
[8:36] because I know we've got a lot of recognition, I'll tee up the next three items and then
[8:41] get out of the way.
[8:41] So first, we're going to recognize all of our teammates that hit their miles of milestones
[8:46] of years of service in June, 2026. And then we recognize our Ambassador Program
[8:52] participants for the Spring, 2026 class. And then also finish up with
[8:57] Employee the Month for June of 2026. So I pick Abby from People Ops, Melissa
[9:02] from People Ops, and then Kevin from IT are going to do the honors. So thank you.
[9:14] Abigail Woods, People Operations. Today we are proud to recognize and celebrate the
[9:20] dedicated employees who have reached important years of service milestones.
[9:24] Their commitment, professionalism, and contributions have helped strengthen our organization
[9:30] and improve the services we provide to our community.
[9:33] Thank you for your hard work, loyalty, and the positive impact you make every day.
[9:38] Please join me in congratulating and honoring these outstanding employees for their years of service.
[9:46] I'm going to start with five years, Alex Howard, utilities,
[9:59] Carl Walker, Jun-
[10:00] Senior Public Safety,
[10:07] Colby Mazzoni, Public Safety,
[10:14] Sean Hunt, Facilities Management,
[10:23] Joshua Huff, Public Safety,
[10:30] Michelle Fitzgerald, People Operations,
[10:38] Tara Blackson, Human Services,
[10:46] Frank Paylella, Public Safety,
[10:48] And
[10:54] with 20 years, Jamie Skidera Community Services.
[11:03] And those not attending but reach their five years are Brady Peterson from Utilities,
[11:09] Stacy McDonald from Budget and Administrative Services, Thomas Tucker, Public Safety,
[11:16] David Williams, Public Works, Paige Bogg, Community Development, with 10 years Jacob Gibbs
[11:24] from public works, with 15 years, James Wood from utilities, and with 35 years, Sue McKean
[11:31] from utilities.
[11:32] Thank you.
[11:51] Melissa Dunlevy, people operations.
[11:54] Today, we are recognizing our 22nd employee ambassador program graduates.
[11:58] The employee ambassador program was started in 2011 because of employee responses to strategic
[12:03] area focus survey.
[12:05] Feedback received from employees indicated their commitment to quality work and to being a good
[12:09] team player.
[12:09] This program was developed to improve communications across departments, increase employee knowledge of the organization, foster team spirit, and enhance customer service.
[12:20] Ambassadors are better prepared to answer questions from citizens, colleagues, and neighbors.
[12:25] They are well informed of the county's programs and services and can respond to inquiries.
[12:29] They have a reinforced sense of team spirit and a commitment to providing quality services to all customers and colleagues.
[12:35] With today's class, over 500 employees have completed the program and have gained a better
[12:39] understanding of the county's departments and the overall organization, which benefits
[12:43] customers, the organization, and the public.
[12:46] Congratulations to the 22nd class of the Employee Ambassador Program.
[12:50] I'm Brianna Beaty from Public Safety,
[12:58] Lisa Blau from Fiscal,
[13:04] Whitt Buchanan, Administration,
[13:10] Caitlin Kozzi, Community Services,
[13:18] Trevor Cole, Facilities,
[13:25] Jessica Aaron Hart, Public Works,
[13:32] Sarah Guadette, Human Services,
[13:38] Katie Jackson, Public Works,
[13:45] Jose Laura Flores, IT,
[13:51] Thomas
[13:52] Mathias, Community Services,
[13:58] Ricardo Panoagua, Emergency Management,
[14:06] John Perspectno, Community
[14:08] services,
[14:13] Grionna Fines for Joseph Utilities,
[14:19] Jordan Rye, Economic Development,
[14:24] Andrea Robinson,
[14:25] Fiscal,
[14:29] Robin Schnoob, Community Services,
[14:36] Grace Snyder, Public Works,
[14:41] Melissa Walker,
[14:42] Administration.
[15:00] All right,
[15:37] good morning, commissioners. Good morning. Kevin Mangle, senior IT division manager. And I am here to recognize one of our employees, Donna of the night, as you employ the month, for June of 2026. Generally, our IT employees tend to shun the limelight. They kind of like to do their things behind the scene. But sometimes folks put forth that effort that you just can't let them let them hide. And this is one of those instances.
[16:04] So I take great pleasure reading this for Donovan.
[16:09] Donovan Knight has demonstrated Charlotte County's core values throughout the implementation
[16:12] of a complex, computerated dispatch system, transition, impacting public safety and Charlotte
[16:19] County Sheriff's Office.
[16:20] From the beginning of the project, he embraced the opportunity to become the primary support
[16:24] liaison between agencies, quickly learning the system, understanding fiery MS operations,
[16:30] and building strong relationships with frontline personnel and leadership.
[16:35] Donovan consistently exemplifies customer service and partnership by actively listening to
[16:40] fiery MS staff, gathering feedback and operational requirements, and ensuring their concerns
[16:45] and recommendations were communicated to the sheriff's office, which manages the application.
[16:51] He serves as a primary advocate for public safety, bridging that gap between agencies
[16:55] to ensure technology solutions meet operational needs.
[16:59] Donovan's dedication to this project is going to far beyond the expectations of his role.
[17:04] He has invested significant time outside normal business hours, including nights and weekends,
[17:09] to provide support during critical phases of the implementation.
[17:13] Rather than asking first responders to work around his schedule, he has met them on theirs,
[17:18] often traveling to apparatus locations throughout the county to troubleshoot issues,
[17:23] deploy updates, and ensure critical systems remain operational.
[17:26] His willingness to immerse himself in public safety operations, learn unfamiliar technologies,
[17:32] and advocate for his customers, has been instrumental in maintaining momentum throughout
[17:37] the implementation.
[17:38] Donovan demonstrates a strong commitment to public service by consistently putting the needs
[17:43] of his customers first.
[17:44] His technical expertise, responsiveness, and unwavering commitment to supporting public safety
[17:50] have a direct impact on the county's ability to provide critical emergency services.
[17:55] by collaborating across agencies, addressing issues in the field, and remaining engaged throughout
[18:01] the project.
[18:02] He has made a meaningful contribution to this implementation.
[19:06] Next, we have the Florida Economic Development Council Innovation and Marketing Award.
[19:13] Good morning, Commissioner.
[19:14] As KTracy Fisters, Economic Development Director today, I am proud to share that the Shirley County
[19:22] Economic Development Office has received a statewide award from the Florida Economic Development
[19:29] Council for our permanent change of station workforce attraction campaign, part of a broader
[19:37] careers on the coast initiative. This campaign was designed to attract skilled workers, military
[19:43] families, and transitioning service members to Charlotte County by connecting meaningful career
[19:49] opportunities with exceptional quality of life, our community offers.
[19:56] We know that veterans and former service members bring leadership.
[20:00] Discipline, teamwork, and dedication, then employees value, highly, I'm sorry, employee
[20:06] ears, value, highly, and who wouldn't want to hire someone who has proudly worn a uniform
[20:14] of our country. And who wouldn't want to live and work in play in a purple heart community
[20:22] that honors and admires our veterans and military families.
[20:26] Charlotte County proudly recognizes the sacrifices made by those who have served and we remain
[20:34] committed to creating a welcoming community where we can all thrive and continue to live and work.
[20:43] Through targeted digital advertising, geo-fensing around military installations, relocating,
[20:50] relocation messaging and workforce focused storytelling, the campaign generated more than a
[20:58] million targeted impressions nationwide and more than 6,000 visits to workforce attraction
[21:06] and relocation resources that we've provided. A major focus of this campaign is reaching military
[21:13] connected audiences and positioning
[21:16] Charlotte County as a place where service
[21:18] members and their families can successfully
[21:21] transition into civilian careers raise their families
[21:25] and build long-term futures.
[21:29] This award especially is meaningful because it
[21:32] recognizes economic development marketing that
[21:35] directly supports workforce growth along-term
[21:38] community competitiveness.
[21:41] Workforce availability remains one of the
[21:43] the top factors that concern companies in our community
[21:47] to provide quality goods and services to our residents.
[21:52] Initiatives like Careers on the Coast continue to strengthen
[21:55] Charlotte County's reputation as a workforce ready
[21:58] and veteran friendly community.
[22:00] Additionally, I would like to recognize our talented marketing
[22:03] manager, Maria Vasciala Sorrellow, who is not here today.
[22:08] But for her hard work, creativity and dedication
[22:11] in leading this campaign, her efforts helped position Charlotte County among our peers
[22:17] across the state of Florida and earned this distinguished statewide recognition.
[22:23] We are grateful for her and the rest of the economic development team for their commitment
[22:28] to promoting our community and telling the story of why Charlotte County is special,
[22:34] so special to live and work. I'd also like to thank the board for your continued support
[22:41] For economic development and workforce initiatives, along with our community partners, schools, employers and county staff who helped to make this campaign possible.
[22:52] We are honored and blessed to receive the statewide recognition and proud to continue promoting Charlotte County as a place where careers, opportunities, patriotism and quality of life come together. Thank you.
[23:08] If you want to take a picture, what do you want to do?
[23:16] Okay.
[23:16] Go forward.
[23:19] You're so good.
[24:04] Okay.
[24:04] Next we have Excellence in Business Award.
[24:07] And commissioners today would like to introduce Christy Cisler.
[24:10] She is our Business Recruitment Manager.
[24:13] And she's going to be doing this next award.
[24:19] For the record, Christy Cisler, Economic Development Office.
[24:23] Good morning.
[24:24] Commissioner is ladies and gentlemen.
[24:25] On behalf of the Charlotte County Economic Development Office, it is my honor to present the Excellence in Business Award.
[24:32] This recognition is reserved for businesses that demonstrate leadership, strengthen our local economy, and show meaningful commitment to the community they serve.
[24:41] Today we are proud to recognize Buffalo Graphics.
[24:45] Founded in 1988, Buffalo Graphics has been a part of Charlotte County's business community for more than 35 years.
[24:50] What began as a family-owned company has grown into a second-generation local business now led by Jordan Aquila who serves as the owner and president.
[25:00] The ordinance leadership, Buffalo Graphics has continued to grow, modernize and serve as a trusted creative and production partner for businesses, non-profits, public sector organizations, healthcare providers, financial institutions, and community partners throughout Charlotte County and Southwest Florida.
[25:17] Both of the graphics is more than a print company.
[25:20] It is a full-service operation offering printing, graphic design, mailing, signs and raps,
[25:25] embroidery, screen printing, dye sublimation, promotional products, and branded online store
[25:30] fronts.
[25:31] That range of services allows local organizations to keep more of their marketing branding
[25:36] and communications work right here in Charlotte County.
[25:40] The company has also continued to invest in its future.
[25:43] From 2023 to 2025, Buffalo Graphics reported revenue growth of approximately 26.5%, with
[25:50] 2025 marking the strongest year in the company's history.
[25:54] During that same time, the company continued to reinvest in equipment facility improvements,
[25:59] software work flow systems and modern tools that help improve communication and customer
[26:04] service.
[26:05] But what truly sets Buffalo Graphics apart is the way the company pairs business success with
[26:10] community responsibility.
[26:11] Over the past three years, Buffalo Graphics has contributed more than $47,000 in combined
[26:18] community investment through direct donations, donated print services, and discounted services
[26:24] for local nonprofit organizations.
[26:27] In 2025 alone, the company provided more than $22,000 in combined giving, including donated
[26:33] and discounted print services to 28 local nonprofits.
[26:37] Those organizations include the Charlotte County Community Foundation, the Animal
[26:42] Well Fair League, our TWIT Institute for Mental Health, Coana's Foundation of Charlotte
[26:47] County and many others.
[26:50] Buffalo Graphics has also supported major local events including the our TWIT Institute
[26:54] Golf and tennis fundraiser, the golf course partnership, art show and Coana's Foundation
[26:58] golf tournaments.
[27:00] Through the support Buffalo Graphics helps local nonprofits promote events, race funds and share
[27:05] their missions and reach the people who need the most.
[27:09] Jordan's commitment to the community also extends beyond the business itself.
[27:14] He serves as the president of the Charlotte County Jazz Society, helping preserve and promote
[27:19] live jazz music in our community while supporting music scholarships for students.
[27:24] Across the last two seasons, concert proceeds helped fund $25,000 in scholarships for nine
[27:31] local high school students pursuing advanced music education.
[27:36] Buffalo Graphics also invest in people.
[27:39] The company has built a strong team culture, including long-serving employees and returning
[27:43] team members, who have come back into key roles in sales and operations.
[27:48] The company is also an active partner in Charlotte Technical College's design program.
[27:53] For multiple years, Buffalo Graphics has hosted students for production floor tours once
[27:58] twice each school year. Giving them a first-hand look at creative careers in action. The company
[28:04] has also hired program graduates into full-time creative roles, including its current art director,
[28:10] helping build Charlotte County's local design talent pipeline. This is the kind of business
[28:15] excellence we are proud to recognize in Charlotte County. Buffalo Graphics has grown responsibly
[28:21] invested in its team and supported local students, helps non-profit succeed and continues to
[28:27] and modernized while remaining deeply connected to the community it serves.
[28:31] For its leadership, business growth, innovation, community investment, and lasting commitment to Charlotte County,
[28:38] the Charlotte County Economic Development Office is proud to present the Excellence in Business Award to Buffalo Graphics.
[28:44] At this time, I would like to invite Jordan Aquila to come forward and accept the award.
[28:49] Congratulations to Jordan and the entire Buffalo Graphics team on this well-deserved reputation.
[29:03] And after a photo, we'd like to say a few words.
[29:08] Mr. Chair, before Jordan comes up, I recently got to meet him and he is now going to be participating in comedy for a cause this year.
[29:18] So I've got another recruit that you get to see in my October at the Twisted Fort. It's going to be great.
[29:41] Thank you. I am very grateful for the economic development for this recognition and I'll be honest. I don't love being up here because this award doesn't really belong to me.
[29:50] It belongs to my team and my family who started this business and grew this business and I'm very thankful for all the opportunities we've been
[30:00] Thank you. Thank you, sir.
[30:07] Well, if you're a little nervous coming up to the mic, wait till comedy for
[30:10] cause, you'll have hundreds of people. We're going to cure that. Hackling you.
[30:17] All right. Gentlemen, we're going to move on to public input, agenda items only. Anybody
[30:21] wishing to address the board during this portion of the meeting must fill out a card, state their name
[30:26] for the record and state which agenda item or items will be addressed. Remark shall be limited to three minutes.
[30:30] and shall be addressed to the Commission as a body and not to individual members.
[30:35] I have my cards here.
[30:36] If you haven't filled out a card, they're to my right over there at the table.
[30:42] Lynn
[30:45] Matthews, regarding the TDC appointment.
[30:49] Good morning, Chairman to say how commissioners, it's a pleasure to be here this morning.
[30:53] And I thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself to you.
[30:56] I'll go you all know me.
[30:58] I have applied for the TDC appointment and I would like to just share
[31:03] a little bit about my background.
[31:05] I bring three decades of experience in the hospitality
[31:08] and tour and travel business.
[31:10] And I was a small business owner and upstate New York
[31:12] with my husband when we lived there.
[31:14] I believe that all of my credentials could greatly benefit
[31:17] the TDC and I would really like to ask for your vote.
[31:21] Thank you.
[31:21] Thank you.
[31:23] Next I have Sean Wilson on item regular agenda S3,
[31:27] the LGAO award.
[31:31] Good morning, members of the County Commission
[31:34] staff and citizens of Charlie County. My name is Sean Wilson. I'm the president of Blue Sky
[31:40] Communities with offices at 180 Fountain Parkway North in St. Petersburg. I am here today to ask for your
[31:47] support for the Blue Deep Creek Phase 2 Affordable Housing Development, which is coming up on regular
[31:53] agenda item S3. I want to thank this commission and the county for working with Blue Sky in
[32:00] spirit of partnership and cooperation for nine years.
[32:04] We first proposed our jack around to place development all the way back in 2017, and I'm
[32:09] proud to say that we did get that built successfully with help from the county on the state.
[32:16] We also were able to successfully get funding for Blue Deep Creek Phase 1 on Luther Road through
[32:24] the same process that we're requesting today, the LGAO funding, and then we came through
[32:29] and we won the funding at the state with that commitment from you all.
[32:35] I think we've been good partners, we've always done what we said we're going to do.
[32:40] We try to keep drama to a minimum.
[32:42] And most importantly, we've had been providing housing for some of the hardest working people in Charlotte County,
[32:48] including a lot of folks with special needs over there at the Jackaranda Place property.
[32:54] Blue Sky has made a lot of commitments to this development over the past 12 months, and not only do we own the land already at Blue Deep Creek Phase 2, so there's no contract with the seller, there's no crazy extensions, we own the land, but we also came through your regular zoning process.
[33:12] We went from 10 units per acre zoning to a 15 units per acre zoning.
[33:18] And you all had an effect and approved this development and a manner of speaking when you approved the zoning back in March.
[33:25] And then finally, and perhaps most importantly, we took a cue from the state of Florida who said that they want to see these affordable housing developments be more permit ready before they apply for funding.
[33:37] We're doing that.
[33:38] The architecture and engineering is done. We're about halfway through the permitting.
[33:42] So when we win this funding, we will be ready to go, again, no drama, no bumping up against closing deadlines.
[33:49] We'll be complete permitting in December, which is right around the time that the state is going to make its final awards.
[33:57] So you can count on us to get this thing in the ground quickly.
[34:02] And I, all the hard work I think that we've done over the past years and the past 12 months
[34:07] was really recognized in many ways.
[34:09] Also our commitment to conform to the consolidated plan I think was recognized by the
[34:15] Home Review Committee and their initial ranking, we actually were the highest scoring
[34:19] applicant.
[34:19] We scored 86, the other applicants scored 82, and hopefully that result will carry the
[34:25] day today as well.
[34:26] Thank you very much, commissioners.
[34:28] Thank you, sir.
[34:29] Thank you for your comments.
[34:29] Samuel,
[34:30] TURPENING S-6-A-W-L.
[34:51] Good morning, commissioners.
[34:53] Good morning.
[34:53] Good morning.
[34:53] Good morning, Miss Samuel TURPENING, and I'm here to bring some raw
[34:56] common sense and black leather wall to the agenda regarding the animal wealth.
[35:00] I wrote a speech, but I don't need to speak. I'll just let you guys know. The Florida single audit act requires that we demand an audit of every single 501-3C that we choose to contract with outside of using our tax dollars.
[35:20] And so, because of that, the floor to single audit act
[35:24] demands that we have a line by line item on that audit,
[35:28] and so that we can see exactly what's going on.
[35:31] Furthermore, in your own contract from 2013,
[35:36] it also says that you have the ability to demand
[35:38] all of these things that the floor to single audit act
[35:42] also requires.
[35:44] So in two different levels, you're saying that you have the right
[35:48] through the law and through the state of Florida in order to require an audit.
[35:53] That audit is not only a breakdown of the money of our tax dollars, the people's money.
[35:59] It also is about the animals.
[36:02] In Charlotte County, it says that we're only responsible for strayes as our homeless animals
[36:08] and bite cases for 10 days.
[36:11] Yet they originally aid WL as for $1.3 million.
[36:16] A jump from $384,000 in no one's gonna ask, where's the money?
[36:24] Can anybody do some math here and ask how much $1.3 million how many animals I could take care of?
[36:34] So I just adopted an animal last night because my beloved animal just passed away.
[36:40] And it was $400. I made sure that it didn't have to go to a shelter.
[36:44] it was horribly abused, and it got to come to my home last night.
[36:49] So this isn't about the animals or taking it or not taking care of our animals.
[36:54] This is about the rule of law and what is required.
[36:59] Not only for the animal welfare league but for all 501-3Cs that we require, if you want
[37:06] our tax dollars, we would like to know how that money is being spent.
[37:11] and how it's being spent. And as business owners as one Matthew's point did out, ROI, what
[37:19] is our return on investment? Are the animals truly being taken care of or where is this money going?
[37:28] We have the rule of law on our side in order to demand the answer to those questions before we
[37:36] any further. I appreciate your time and God bless everyone today. Thank you.
[37:43] Thank you, sir. Thank you for your comments. Mr. Tim Richie R1.
[37:49] I'm sorry.
[37:50] That's one.
[38:17] Good morning, everybody.
[38:19] Good morning.
[38:21] I see today we have seen up
[38:28] and it's for Glades County. Why?
[38:34] Now there's going to be $200,000 that's provided by the EPA,
[38:43] and then we've got this little graph here for the Glades signed by Sean and CNAP.
[38:54] Then we've got this interlocal agreement with Manatee County and CNAP.
[39:03] One of the last time many of you have been on the Peace River.
[39:06] Yeah, look closely. Commissioner 2x.
[39:11] You know, we're in a phase 3 water shortage per swift mud.
[39:18] You know what's going on up the peace river and the myacca river? I'll tell you what.
[39:25] Mosaic, fertilizer, phosphate, mining, slash chemical company.
[39:32] Our harbor, I want you all to know this because I was on radio St. Pete Saturday and I let him know.
[39:39] Do you know how much environmental damage Mosaic has done to our harbor in our river?
[39:46] Take a wild guess.
[39:47] They got hit with a 1.8 billion dollar environmental fine in 2016.
[39:52] 2015. I estimate from Tampa Bay to Charlotte Harbor in the allele.
[40:00] The fire, the little manatee, the manatee, my act in peace. I bet you, commissioner, dirty, we're pushing
[40:07] 500 to 750 billion dollars in environmental damage.
[40:17] And what have we gotten from Sena? What have we
[40:22] gotten from any 501C that we give money to? I'll tell you what a big fat zero everybody. How
[40:29] much money will it cost to dredge the peace river from Lake Hancock, past Polk, past Hardy,
[40:37] through Disoto to Charlotte County to the end of our harbor.
[40:43] And what are we going to do with that 12 to 15 feet of muck?
[40:51] Each one of the rivers I mentioned need that.
[40:57] Have any of you written the letter to Governor DeSantis
[40:59] are mosaic say we want to investigate these waste water facilities and reverse osmosis
[41:05] that Mr. Tim Richie our citizen waters are has told Senator Albritton has told the
[41:12] piece of her water authority in all of you. I want to see a letter written by the next meeting
[41:18] from one of you. Thank you sir. Thank you.
[41:20] Thank you.
[41:21] Just for the record that was item R1 in local agreement between Charlotte County behalf
[41:26] of the Coastal and Heartland National Estuary Partnership and Manatee County, not S1.
[41:32] Thank you, Commissioner.
[41:33] It covers water quality.
[41:34] Yeah, the whole enchilada.
[41:35] No, that was for my board for the record.
[41:37] Thank you, sir.
[41:39] Cole Kelly S1.
[41:47] Good morning, Commissioner.
[41:48] Good morning, sir.
[41:49] My name is Cole Kelly and I am running for the TDC Board.
[41:52] I strongly feel that I would be the best applicant and I would love to serve our county
[41:57] on this board.
[41:58] I am Sunseeker Resorts, current water sports provider, through my company Ponegorda
[42:03] Adventures.
[42:04] I work very closely with Fisherman's Village, through my company, the Charlotte
[42:07] Harper Garden Map, and I'm on the forefront of AI and technology in this business,
[42:13] but also being a captain and working on the water every single day.
[42:16] I also have a good mix of conservation and I know what makes our destination extra special.
[42:22] I'm out on the water, we currently have over 75,000 followers on all platforms and I actively
[42:28] work and promoting our destination with the tourism bureau already on a very frequent basis.
[42:34] I think my young mix of AI4 technology also still being able to balance things for conservation
[42:42] efforts would be best served to fit our tourism development county actively involved in all types
[42:50] of conservation projects around Charlotte County including Captains for Clean Water,
[42:55] the Coastal Conservation Association and we just planted a 10 metric ton oyster bed out in Turtle Bay.
[43:02] I am young and active in the community and as well as in business, I didn't have a hospitality
[43:07] business decades ago. I'm actively working with the current members on the board. Then I think
[43:12] together we can make a really great change with the county. Some of the things that I think are really
[43:17] important is to have better signage at some of our outlanding places as well as helping bring
[43:23] larger corporate groups into the county to promote better bed taxing.
[43:27] Thank you so much.
[43:28] I look forward to working hard for you in the citizens of Charlotte County on the
[43:31] Torres Board.
[43:33] Thank you.
[43:33] Your comments, sir.
[43:34] Aerial, fraynard, S3,
[43:42] Aerial S, oh there he is, coming around.
[43:52] Good afternoon, commissioners, Aerial, frayn with housing trust group.
[43:56] I'm a senior vice president with housing trust group, we're based out of 3225 Aviation Avenue
[44:01] in Coconut Grove, Florida.
[44:02] very happy to be with you here all regarding Murdoch Square, the other development that is requesting the local government contribution.
[44:10] I've had a chance to meet with some of you, but not all, and I wanted to first and foremost introduce housing trust group.
[44:17] We have developed over 10,000 units since 1997.
[44:21] Most of our developments are working with local nonprofits, municipalities, private entities, all across the state and nation wide.
[44:28] our team is vertically integrated, so we have development finance, construction and management in
[44:34] house.
[44:36] We are very excited about Murdoch Square because back in 2025 we were working with staff
[44:42] to identify the area of interest where we can bring a site forward to the state and we believe
[44:48] right on veterans, both of our close to poor charter town center is an excellent opportunity
[44:52] to bring an affordable housing development of HG's quality to the county.
[44:56] One thing I want to address is some of the comments I will read as relates to.
[45:00] You know, the site in the scoring that we're done at the AHACC. So, we have long-term site control with the seller, which is what the requirement is.
[45:08] We wanted to identify and infill site close to employment centers, close to work, close to walkability. To give people that live there, the residents, the opportunity to not have to rely heavily on transit and to be close to their work and their job. That was the goal and that's a scoring criteria at the state.
[45:23] The third, the scoring as it relates to the A-hack, the only reason that we scored lowers because we were offering a wider range of income levels.
[45:32] So we were offering some 70% AMI units and we were also offering lower bands of 30%.
[45:37] Just to give you a perspective, a family of three, a family of three household that's earning about $60,000,
[45:44] would technically be priced out of the Blue Deep Creek site, just based on earning too much money, where we wanted to capture that.
[45:50] If you match it, the same out, if we were to match the same income levels, we would have
[45:57] actually scored one point higher, and that's due to our superior location of the site.
[46:02] The other thing I just wanted to note, BlueDee Creek is not permit ready this year.
[46:06] So our goal is as well to start spending money on design and construction engineering drawings,
[46:11] so that we are permit ready letter, should we not be obtaining the funding next year.
[46:15] And lastly, I would say, we have more units.
[46:18] We have three bedroom units to capture larger families and
[46:23] hard chances of funding.
[46:24] So thank you very much.
[46:25] Thank you, sir.
[46:26] That was my last speaking card.
[46:28] So last call.
[46:29] Anybody wish to speak?
[46:30] Please come forward.
[46:31] Stay tuned for the record.
[46:32] You'll have three minutes.
[46:34] And when you're done, we'll get you to fill out a card.
[46:40] Good morning, commissioners.
[46:41] Jennifer Hecker with the coast on Heartland National
[46:43] History Partnership.
[46:45] Speaking on P11 and our one first one
[46:48] clarify we're with the U.S. EPA, not 501C3, and we wanted to just quickly correct for the record
[46:55] in for the public that we do and have done many, many things and continue to do for Charlotte
[47:01] County. We ourselves have funded over 20 years of water sampling in Charlotte Harbor. We put
[47:08] all of that data onto the CH&AP water Atlas where it's publicly accessible with data analysis tools
[47:14] to give you real life readouts on the water conditions out there in the harbor and other
[47:18] waterways in Charlotte County. We also have recently finished funding the for 200,000,
[47:25] the comprehensive vulnerability assessment in Charlotte County, which will make you eligible
[47:30] for more resiliency Florida state grants, and kind of identify where your vulnerable critical
[47:36] assets are and what we need to help adapt those to be more resilient for future storms.
[47:42] We also are embarking on a new project with your staff, called the Charlotte County
[47:47] exceptional Ponds.
[47:49] It is a project that your staff brought to us that we are now funding and we'll begin
[47:53] this year.
[47:55] We also find keep Charlotte beautiful to do cleanups throughout the community.
[48:00] That's just a sampling of the many things that we are providing to you.
[48:04] The return on investment is tenfold for what you provide to us and what we provide
[48:09] back and being able to leverage those funds to get federal funds back to our community.
[48:14] I just wanted to also say that the water quality problems we experience in Charlotte
[48:19] Harbor are not isolated, unfortunately, to the Peace River.
[48:22] We cover the Myacca, the Peace, and the Close to Hatchie River.
[48:25] A lot of our studies show that the loading coming out of Close to Hatchie has one of the most
[48:30] serious impacts on lower Charlotte Harbor.
[48:32] It's what's driving nutrients into this estuary and really, you know, I'm not to say that
[48:38] piece of my ACA aren't also an issue, and there aren't also nutrient loads, but we actually
[48:44] have done the science to see that the Cluse Hatchian, fortunately, is the largest driver of the
[48:49] three river systems. We are working on all three of them, but Glades County of course sits on the
[48:55] Cluse Hatchi. So it really does behooves the people of Charlotte County to address this issue in a regional
[49:02] scale, and we are happy to partner with you to do that. Thank you. Thank you for your comments,
[49:08] Last call, anybody who has to speak, please come forward, state your name, for the record, you'll have three minutes.
[49:14] Hi, I'm Terry Zee, just some executive director for the animal welfare leak.
[49:17] And I just wanted to take one minute to publicly thank Hector Flores and Emily Lewis for their time and dedication
[49:23] as well as all of you up here for working very hard with all of us at the animal welfare leak.
[49:29] for not only coming to partially agreeing with our contract, but for working very hard over
[49:39] the last four weeks to try very hard to come to an agreement for today. We didn't quite
[49:45] get there, but we're working very hard and we're hopeful to come to you on September
[49:49] Eve. But I just wanted to take the time and thank them publicly for their hard work
[49:53] and dedication. It's been a pleasure to work with you over the last couple of weeks.
[49:56] Thank you very much.
[49:57] Thank you for your comments, ma'am.
[49:58] Anybody else wishing to speak, please come-
[50:00] The report states your name for the record. You'll have three minutes. Okay. Nobody's rising when we move on to consent. Commissioner Doye, anything to pull?
[50:09] Commissioner Truex.
[50:10] Commissioner Constance.
[50:11] Nothing.
[50:11] Commissioner Doye.
[50:12] Nothing. I have nothing.
[50:14] Move the consent.
[50:14] We have motion, exactly.
[50:15] Move the consent. Is there any further discussion?
[50:18] Yes, sir.
[50:18] Commissioner Constance.
[50:20] So, just item F9 is the approval, approve ranking, design for anger,
[50:25] of the Fishing Peer Community Services.
[50:29] Bruts of the last meeting that we're having an issue
[50:32] with the fact that the 41 bridges have been closed to fishing.
[50:37] And we're going to address it at the MPO meeting on Monday.
[50:40] I would like to request Mr. Flores have somebody from staff,
[50:45] whether it's Mr. Elias or Tommy or somebody,
[50:49] but come and just give us a brief update on what's happening
[50:53] with all of the fishing fears in general, just a quick synopsis because we're going to have
[50:59] a probably a room full of fish in there and I just want to make sure that we have somebody
[51:03] to give an update because we're going to be speaking with Mr. Gator and Secretary and I think
[51:08] we're going to come to a resolution, but I think it's important that we have everything
[51:11] on the table for everyone. So folks know the currently what's available and what our plan
[51:15] to resolve the issue will be, I just don't want to go in there blind. I think it's important
[51:19] and we have full disclosure of where we're at,
[51:21] and also what's happening just in general with permitting army
[51:26] core and why it's taking so long.
[51:28] It's a understandable frustration,
[51:31] but I just think an update would be well-advised
[51:34] with that meeting.
[51:36] Thank you.
[51:36] Thank you, sir.
[51:36] Commissioner Dwight.
[51:37] Thank you.
[51:38] We discussed this in our one-and-one today,
[51:40] because I think a lot of us, I know I was concerned
[51:43] about the closing of the bridge,
[51:47] for fishing and specifically, and from what I understand the information that got passed
[51:53] down to me, literally the state reacted to one complaint. There was one complaint from one
[52:01] person about the fishing on the bridge, and I think they overreacted to that. I think they've
[52:07] acknowledged that, and I think we can anticipate the next few days of not the next few weeks
[52:14] the bridge will be open again to Fishing.
[52:18] So, thank you, sir.
[52:20] Yeah, just quick comment.
[52:22] I believe Mrs. Lewis has a comprehensive list of the peers, so we can make that available.
[52:27] It's pretty easy then like a one-pager with the update, the status and where we are with each with each of those peers.
[52:34] Is there any further discussion on this item?
[52:36] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[52:39] Okay, consent passes unanimously.
[52:41] We're going to move on to a regular agenda S1, a point by ballot, tourist development council.
[52:50] Okay, that's just have to worry.
[53:30] Okay, commissioners for this item, for the tourist development council ballot.
[53:35] Mr. Cole Kelly has the majority votes.
[53:38] Do we have a motion?
[53:39] Do we have a motion?
[53:42] Mr. Kelly?
[53:44] We have a second.
[53:45] We have motion a second to approve Mr. Kelly as the new tourist development council appointing. Is there any further discussion?
[53:54] Is there any further discussion? Is there any opposition to the motion? That passes unanimously. Okay, when we want to item S2 Metro forecasting model update Mr. Bailey, right next to present.
[54:06] Good morning, Commissioner has been Bailey Community Development Director. I'm just here to introduce David Farmer from Metro 4 casting to give us the latest update on population projections.
[54:15] So I will hand it over to him.
[54:19] Thank you, Ben.
[54:20] Good morning, for the record. My name is David Farmer representing Metro 4 casting models. Thank you for having me here today.
[54:27] Let's get through that.
[54:28] My partner, Dr. Paul Van Bussker, can have been a theater actor of growth models. We've been using for the last three years to model you.
[54:34] In fact, what I don't show it off in this presentation, you know, any extra money that's
[54:39] ever left over for projects we do, all goes back and R&D and we just developed the IGM5.0
[54:44] and that was used for this update.
[54:47] Quick walk down memory lane.
[54:48] We originally started working for you in 2023.
[54:51] We did an update in 2024 because that was part of the original contract to do an automatic
[54:56] update.
[54:57] Then we updated again twice in 2025.
[55:00] February, and then again, with February day to then, then with August day to December, and now we're here
[55:05] to you today with April data. And this time, we've actually backfilled our data with certificate of occupancy
[55:11] data, which might sound like a bunch of gobbledy look. But that means that it's dead on accurate. We have
[55:16] every single door knob verified and committed. It's a quick refresher on the IGM. It's a very accurate,
[55:24] complex growth management tool. It's really designed for a long-range planning, planning
[55:31] for facilities and informing boards like yourselves of the needs that meant to be readily
[55:36] obvious about looking 5-10 years down the road. We can see these things are needed to be
[55:40] in plan budget for them and plan for them, etc. We also use AI as part of our build-out analysis.
[55:48] It helps give us more accuracy because some zoning allow multiple outcomes and yet the model can
[55:53] take just one for a parcel, and so we use that for that analysis, and this is up there
[55:58] also helps us identify some micro macro trends, which I'll be sharing with you today.
[56:04] What really makes us different than our competition, and actually most four casters in general,
[56:09] is that we believe that growth happens in an organic fashion following a logistic curve to get
[56:15] a little ahead of myself, we have 353 zones in Charlotte County, and each one has a very
[56:21] very complex curve that makes that up. In fact, our new model actually now looks at all
[56:25] of the building data, per zone, and then does a ton of statistical analysis, like 1100 times,
[56:31] to reach the growth factors for each one of these. As you are probably aware, when you have
[56:38] a whole bunch of things, zone 1, 2, 3, zone 4, 5, 6, they're just numbers, they don't only mean
[56:42] much. So we categorize them into clusters so that when we talk about things, they're a little
[56:50] that's sort of interesting, but when I say Babcock, now you can zero one and exactly what I'm
[56:54] talking about, and that's why we do those. All right, so I'm jumping right to the dessert to
[56:59] the findings. You've had some growth in case you've worked aware. I 2022 was your peak. And
[57:08] and to no fault, and I mean this, through no fault of your planning department or your facilities
[57:13] directors or what not, your levels of service have declined. That brings up bullet point number two.
[57:19] It declined because you've had it 50,000 people since the census.
[57:23] That's more than a 25% growth rate in five years.
[57:27] I know you're feeling, I know you can see it when you drive around town and so forth.
[57:31] And I know you know this, but I have to say it on the record.
[57:33] That's a lot.
[57:34] That's a lot.
[57:35] I moved here from Fairbanks to Alaska.
[57:36] The Greater Fairbanks area is very slow and so on.
[57:38] It's about 32,000, but the area is about 50,000.
[57:41] Today, that was a 1989, today it's 50,000.
[57:44] You guys have added that, but if all of a need of springs picked up and moved here
[57:48] since 2020 is the kind of people we're talking about.
[57:52] So, since January of 25, 2025, you have added 7,500 units, and if you pay attention to your
[57:59] building permit, take it away for a minute, if that's crazy, we didn't issue that many building
[58:04] permits, and that's what we call lag, lags, especially with higher end single family homes,
[58:10] and multi family projects.
[58:11] It could be 18 to 24 months from when you'd issue a permit where it actually hits the books
[58:15] shows up. But again, these are all verified with CO's because I looked at number four or five
[58:20] times to make sure that it was right because it was a big one.
[58:27] So you've had a non-going trend.
[58:29] Your commercial development back in 23 was about 70 square feet per capita and I've got a
[58:34] graph to show you a few minutes to show that stacks up. But it's your commercial. You're adding
[58:40] that at a few hundred thousand square feet over the last few years but it's just not keeping
[58:44] up with your population growth, and that's added into congestion and traffic woes and so forth.
[58:49] Today you're at about 63 square feet on a per capita basis.
[58:53] We think that, I'm pretty sure this is true, you're leaking to, your retail demand is leaking
[58:58] both to Charlotte County to let our service for the county to the north and to Lee County
[59:02] to the south.
[59:03] Mr. County, Mr. County.
[59:04] Mr. County, Mr. County.
[59:05] Yeah.
[59:05] Go ahead.
[59:07] Your presentation is always amazing.
[59:08] I do want to ask though, you know, a lot of the sales that have gone on in the last 20
[59:15] years, especially after COVID, things have been very disruptive.
[59:19] And a lot of people are just shopping by their mailbox.
[59:23] So, you know, I would assume we're going to be seeing a lot more delivery service type of
[59:29] businesses booming as, you know, if you go to the mall, it's very quiet.
[59:34] If you go to a lot of the small businesses that you would arrive on foot, they're not getting
[59:39] shops as they were 20 years ago.
[59:42] So as part of that lag in your estimation, underestimated or overestimated in other words,
[59:51] if we're looking at by the old standards, yeah, we're way behind, but maybe by the new standards,
[59:56] again, you're being organic and heavy looking at these things, maybe this is just...
[1:00:00] Right. And that's, I would very miss in my job if I hadn't heard that question before and had an answer ready for you. And it's not just a can't answer. We're well aware of the Amazonification, if you will. That's a real word or not, but people shopping from there, from their laptops and from their phones, it does happen. But there's also things like Instacart. You've heard of that. Well, those still originate from real retail centers. And so yes, in the old days, there's a lot
[1:00:29] days and I'll show you in our in my chartland a few minutes here that actually a hundred square
[1:00:34] feet was considered absolutely normal for an area to have. Some places that have hard tours
[1:00:40] and have a higher per capita. Some places have a lower one because of either socioeconomic
[1:00:45] issues or because they're actually shopping in nearby counties. But we think that you still
[1:00:50] should be in the 75 range easy without breaking a sweat. Part of this could also be not just
[1:00:57] but also a lagging and employment as well.
[1:01:01] So we'd like to encourage some redevelopments
[1:01:04] in this area right here where I stand.
[1:01:07] It was a maze monster driving up 41 this morning
[1:01:10] of all the retail and shops and businesses
[1:01:13] to the side which is great.
[1:01:15] But I think about all of the new people
[1:01:17] that are really living on the e-babcock
[1:01:20] in that sort of area and off to the west.
[1:01:22] And of course, north of here as well.
[1:01:24] You've had a huge influx of people.
[1:01:26] And those areas when you look at it, they have a basically about a 711, their food deserts.
[1:01:31] I'm not calling Babcock a food desert, of course they have a public and they've got another one on the way.
[1:01:35] But we still think that you're short, no matter which way we slice it.
[1:01:39] Yes, those services are reducing the need for some of the big box stores.
[1:01:45] But it not as much as one might think.
[1:01:48] So, and I don't know how much risk thank you, good answer.
[1:01:50] I don't know how much you've researched Northport, but I'm sure you have to look at the surrounding areas and how they feed in.
[1:01:58] Do you have any kind of an assessment about how they've grown?
[1:02:01] Because they have a pretty healthy commercial corridor from the Charlotte County line.
[1:02:06] North, you know, they did plan well for multiple malls and businesses that, you know, a lot of us go in frequent.
[1:02:15] You know, it's so close.
[1:02:16] We've kind of grown into CERSA to counting that respect.
[1:02:20] How has their planning worked out?
[1:02:23] They had an ability to wait 30 years and plan after they saw what went on with our little
[1:02:30] strip areas on 41, maybe not as successful, where we're having some, you know, again, research
[1:02:37] and regeneration, reworking, promenades, and some points going to come on with a new iteration
[1:02:42] which we've approved.
[1:02:43] So, and the mall here will get redeveloped at some point, so, you know, what is your opinion of what's going on over there?
[1:02:50] I think, so, well, Charlotte County's population has been greater than Northport's Northport had more of a concentration of population.
[1:02:57] And I think that attracted some of the uses that your residents actually are enjoying right now, and in some cases, it's much faster to drive just a mile north to shop in Northport than it is down here because, again, some of the congestion that we have.
[1:03:15] They certainly have some uses that you don't, but I think that largely Charlotte County
[1:03:19] is undiscovered in terms of what it could be by some of our major retailers and aren't
[1:03:25] realizing, especially out west, that West cluster is just breathtaking, and I don't know
[1:03:31] which one of you are the West, but West area, two acts, two acts, I just, my jaw drops every
[1:03:38] time I look at the building permitting over there in the concentration, now that you've
[1:03:41] power, all energized now to the south. We think that area is highly underserved. I'm not
[1:03:46] trying to dodge your question about Northward, but if it's convenient, yes, drive to North
[1:03:50] Fort, right? We don't want to say that there's a line, but for every tax dollar that's spent
[1:03:55] across the county line, that's another dollar, or a portion of a dollar, it doesn't repatriate itself
[1:03:59] back to the county. So, and I know that, look, I realize who my customer is. You guys are the
[1:04:04] government, and your job is not to build retail or let, and you have to still, you guys have a lot of
[1:04:09] to take it land. And your economic development team is doing an excellent job. We just need
[1:04:13] to make sure that we're encouraging some commercial centers, especially to the West. And
[1:04:18] Babcock has really been a poster child of the right thing to do. Their commercial is coming
[1:04:22] online at a very brief, brief pace faster than I would imagine with similar population growth
[1:04:29] in an unorganized fashion. But Babcock has been really great at bringing on industrial and
[1:04:33] commercial to meet the needs of their residents. I'd like to see some of that more happening
[1:04:37] in the west cluster and in the north part of the mid cluster to meet the existing demands and the growing demands that are coming.
[1:04:45] Thanks, oh yeah.
[1:04:48] Let's see, quite an updating annually allows me to look at the data,
[1:04:52] or allows our whole team to look at the data and then report to you what we're seeing.
[1:04:56] This is a graph of showing to you probably four or five times.
[1:05:00] Times that, every time it's been updated, this is different than every graph that we've done for a population,
[1:05:06] mostly because it has a sharp acute angle, that is very disdointed and unusual. The genesis of
[1:05:12] that we believe is Westport slash Murdoch and Babcock coming online at the same time. Your buildup has
[1:05:18] always been about the same as it is today, maybe a little bit less, but the rate of growth and the
[1:05:23] change of absorption has really changed those two projects, and let's not forget about COVID.
[1:05:27] but you can't overlook that in the anomaly that it is.
[1:05:31] But you can see now the growth in the future
[1:05:33] is it looks steeper because it's a little compressed
[1:05:36] from left to right.
[1:05:37] But you have a nice trajectory now going
[1:05:39] and I think that once even Westport builds out,
[1:05:42] you're going to see a lot more interest in the area
[1:05:44] because Westport has taken on more commercial
[1:05:46] and it's a more convenient place to live.
[1:05:49] If that makes sense, it's going to accelerate growth in that area
[1:05:51] much the way that Birdstore will
[1:05:53] wants to finally see some commercial down that way.
[1:05:55] Commissioner Dora, you recognize?
[1:05:56] Thank you, Mr. Chairman Dave. I'm just looking at your table and you know, we've seen it before you've updated the number of
[1:06:02] Previously you had indicated that we would probably hit 50% of our build-out population around 2030 obviously now it's moved up to
[1:06:12] 27
[1:06:13] Yeah
[1:06:14] 27
[1:06:15] So
[1:06:15] Two years two or three years will only achieve
[1:06:20] 50% of our total build-out population
[1:06:23] Just let that settle
[1:06:24] Only will only be half way with our total population.
[1:06:30] So what that just absorbed is to what it's going to be like here in 20 to 30 years if we don't keep up with infrastructure.
[1:06:37] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[1:06:38] Thank you, sir.
[1:06:39] And we also look at the same graph.
[1:06:41] You look at 20, 40, 310,000.
[1:06:44] You know, you were to at 187 at the census.
[1:06:47] And now we're talking about 310, just 20 years later.
[1:06:50] that is your growth has been historic.
[1:06:57] I don't think it's going to slow down, though. I think
[1:06:58] that you guys, yes, it's going to slow down from its peak. You guys are well past your peak,
[1:07:03] but the growth we're even seeing today, I think you are going to see that continue on for quite
[1:07:07] some time. So to do population, people come from houses, right, or they live in houses,
[1:07:15] at least ideally. And so the more housing units we have, the more population we have,
[1:07:19] today. We're sitting on just under 136,000 housing units, actually. That was as of the end of March,
[1:07:27] and you can see your buildout is projected by us to be about 270. I will tell you that numbers
[1:07:32] low. I'll tell you that because the methodology we use is we don't go around just knocking down
[1:07:38] shopping centers and putting in multi-family or residential that you haven't approved. But I
[1:07:43] I look at my crystal ball, especially I drive at 41 and I like to say, you know, 100 units
[1:07:47] are looking there and 100 units are looking there, your buildout is probably going to be closer
[1:07:53] to 285, maybe 100, 200, 90,000 units, but that's a whole lot of decisions, a whole lot
[1:07:58] of boards from now.
[1:08:00] You'll be adding 13,000 more homes between now and 2030, bringing more people with it.
[1:08:09] I hope you like this next session, I'm trying to make a point here, so we developed this back in 2023 to show you how each area was growing.
[1:08:20] And I think it's now fascinating now three years in.
[1:08:23] If we started the left-hand side, I would look at Babcock.
[1:08:25] One might incorrectly assume, well, Babcock is slow down, it's growth is not growing.
[1:08:31] Well, it's it's maxed out. It's rate of growth. And now it's in a linear phase of that. So that we see those bars will continue to play four or five more years and then they'll slightly they'll go down and their velocity as as Babcock starts approaching it. It's it's build out.
[1:08:48] We look at Bert Star Road. You can definitely see the projects that have been approved by you and are taking root and building down that way.
[1:08:56] When we look at East Member East does not include the Babcock area, we pulled that out separately.
[1:09:03] You can see there's a little burst there, I think that's near Pana Gorda, where that growth took place.
[1:09:09] And we look at the mid, we told you a long time ago that this area right here is still your number one growth spot, no matter what.
[1:09:15] It's good, but in terms of velocity, and in terms of how it now growth, this is it right here.
[1:09:20] So this whole cluster around us, it has a large appetite for services and a lot of they
[1:09:27] get lots still.
[1:09:28] This area is not even approaching and enclosed to build up, probably not even half.
[1:09:34] In fact, remember, some of the old math, this area alone is needs another four neighborhood
[1:09:38] shopping center.
[1:09:39] It's below your mind, like four publics type shopping centers in addition to what's here.
[1:09:43] I'm not saying in the downtown area, but dispersed throughout the area to reduce those
[1:09:46] those trip lengths.
[1:09:48] Punagora is fairly level and then we look at the west and we see that that velocity is really picked up in the past few years
[1:09:54] I think that's from your national home builders. I don't not positive, but I think it's your lanars and others that have picked up
[1:10:00] We're going to go up and spit, sped up that velocity over there. That area was well served, especially in the north end, where it touches the Venice area. I believe you have some Venice people coming down shopping in your area. Of course, you want that to continue.
[1:10:13] It's my disposal because it adds tax hours. But to the south end of your west corridor, we need some more commercial over there.
[1:10:20] We are going to have a traffic nightmare, if not already, on our hands. In fact, Elbro, can you raise your hand? Elbro has been doing your day to last three years.
[1:10:26] And I actually get a head west and we're going to go all the way to the south and get current on what's going on over there.
[1:10:33] I know you got a new RV park.
[1:10:34] It's coming out of it.
[1:10:35] Maybe that's open by now.
[1:10:38] Anyway, so the comparison I wanted to make.
[1:10:39] So now that we've talked about every cluster,
[1:10:41] talk about the right and the left, Babcock and West.
[1:10:44] In your mind's eye, can you see that 1500 line and sort of draw it?
[1:10:48] Let's just pretend those two clusters are about equal in terms of their home building, right?
[1:10:54] Okay, so now I've just switched from housing to population.
[1:10:58] Note, note how those two areas were sort of same-ish.
[1:11:01] And note how Babcock is actually adding 3,000 more people a year
[1:11:05] while the West is only adding about 25,000.
[1:11:07] That is demographics.
[1:11:08] That's family's versus non-fat.
[1:11:10] I'm not saying no family's will be the West.
[1:11:12] But in general, when you average it all out,
[1:11:14] we have more people per housing, you know,
[1:11:15] showing up in the Babcock area.
[1:11:18] I just thought that was interesting to show you,
[1:11:19] where we have similar how building patterns
[1:11:22] and yet different populations showing up with, again,
[1:11:25] likely, different needs.
[1:11:29] These images might look similar to the D.R.
[1:11:31] All brand new, this is every door knob that showed up in 2025.
[1:11:36] The, I'm going to call that T.O.
[1:11:38] The non-orange color.
[1:11:41] So you're just your single family.
[1:11:42] And you hear what?
[1:11:44] Turquoise.
[1:11:45] Turquoise.
[1:11:45] There you go.
[1:11:49] And the orange are your multi-family.
[1:11:51] I will tell you that Babcock is greatly distorted, those housing units are so close together
[1:11:58] they're on top of each other and you can't really fully appreciate all of the construction
[1:12:02] that's going out there.
[1:12:03] And that goes for some of the other areas around here too.
[1:12:05] You can see, especially down by the legend where it says, Charlie County residential, you
[1:12:11] can see the burnt start road really taking off and emerging as well as Tucker's point,
[1:12:19] I guess called the Willow, I believe.
[1:12:20] And then to that West area, that West area is really, but even the barrier is, isn't that interesting?
[1:12:25] You know, I would figure in the end of year, you have two or three building permits out there, but what is that like 15 or 20 happening in the area?
[1:12:32] So I think these are very interesting to see in useful in terms of recognizing that it's not just one area that's going, you guys are growing fairly evenly as the land and utilities, and such are available.
[1:12:44] So, we start with housing now, we'll jump over to population.
[1:12:48] So, I said you're going to add 13,000 housing by 2030.
[1:12:51] Well, in those housing units, we think you're going to be 25,000 people,
[1:12:55] based on the demographics.
[1:12:59] So, the Westport Murdoch area is going to be, that's going to represent about 21%
[1:13:04] of your population.
[1:13:06] We think that area will be largely built out close to 2030,
[1:13:10] as it closes that cluster of redevelopment there.
[1:13:13] A bad cock, 42 percent of all of your future residents between now and 2030 are going to live
[1:13:18] in the bad cock area, which is why they're bringing on not only their second public, so
[1:13:23] in 2023, we said by 2035, for sure, bad cock was going to need another one, in fact we're
[1:13:28] a little bit too conservative in our estimation, it looks like it's going to hit closer to 2029
[1:13:34] out there, which is a very good thing, which will actually increase even more velocity we think
[1:13:39] of their demand for development.
[1:13:43] We then have 14% people showing up in the West cluster, which is mind-boggling to me when I look
[1:13:48] at all those building permits showing up, but just that also underscores what's happening
[1:13:51] over in bad and bad cock as well.
[1:13:54] And then 9% down in the Burt-Saur corridor, that's not to say it's less desirable, it's just
[1:13:59] there's less potential for growth down there than there is in these other areas of the
[1:14:03] county.
[1:14:06] This is some fuzzy math, but what I'm trying to do is get across a general point to you,
[1:14:10] And that is, since you've grown by 50,000 people in five years,
[1:14:15] more parks are needed, more fire stations.
[1:14:16] I know you have a new fire station being built, Kudos.
[1:14:20] Just looking at the raw numbers, I know more are needed.
[1:14:24] I think a call for service analysis
[1:14:26] would greatly help understand where and when these new fire stations are needed.
[1:14:30] I'd love to do that for you.
[1:14:33] We also need three new shopping centers.
[1:14:34] We know publics is purchased one site.
[1:14:37] And I think we're going to see others emerging.
[1:14:38] And hopefully one down a burnt star rod in the near future.
[1:14:44] And then when population grows, as we know, especially this quickly, levels of service
[1:14:48] decline in the way that comes capital spending and planning and so forth.
[1:14:53] We want to make sure we have these shopping centers in the right place, not just to keep
[1:14:57] the sales taxes, but because we want to cut that...
[1:15:00] On a trip length, people are driving too far. They're congesting the roads. We can only widen the roads so much. We're going to go broke if we try to widen all the roads. Just to accommodate traffic, whereas we can have these facilities. The shopping centers located in appropriate locations. It really will cut down on on trip traffic. We did a just real quick. We did an analysis last year for Charlotte.
[1:15:19] Therefore, Cape Coral, and we found this one neighborhood that they added, if they promoted
[1:15:24] two neighborhood shopping centers, that one, there was a demand for three, to head
[1:15:29] it.
[1:15:29] There's 45,000 in the list.
[1:15:31] The diplomat quarters, 45,000 people in the court can support three, and if they just
[1:15:35] if they promote two of those being built, today, not in the future, today they're going to
[1:15:40] save 1.4 million miles of driving and by build out 4 million miles a year, every year,
[1:15:45] every year.
[1:15:46] That's 40 cars a year if you had used the old standard of 100,000 a car, 40 cars that
[1:15:51] won't have to be built to make those trips anymore.
[1:15:54] Without doing the math, I can tell you your case is similar too.
[1:15:57] We need to make sure that there's land, side of side, and these outer areas.
[1:16:01] In the West area, you pretty much do.
[1:16:02] You have some nice tracks of land of it that can accommodate these larger commercial projects.
[1:16:08] I'm more concerned with the mid-cluster in the northern areas, not right up against necessarily
[1:16:13] north port, but we probably need to, in a perfect world, we'd be able to take some lots and
[1:16:18] aggregate them and preserve some six, seven, eight-acre sites to have future grocery stores
[1:16:23] and such to, again, reduce the treps plus that'll add to quality life, it'll, it'll make the
[1:16:28] tax base grow and so forth. This table, you've seen it before, all the numbers are different. I promise
[1:16:34] you, this is saying that by 2030, we actually absolutely need three more neighborhood shopping centers
[1:16:40] of much astounding is, and this gets back to leakage, is you also need three community shopping
[1:16:45] centers.
[1:16:46] Now, those are nothing that sees that.
[1:16:48] We're talking about three to 400,000 square feet of big box stores.
[1:16:51] I'm saying you need three of those.
[1:16:54] You're not like it to see those in the next five years or even ten years, mostly because
[1:16:57] the leakage it's going on, but there is opportunity, especially in the Western cluster, and
[1:17:02] as Babcock starts building out to have community shopping center facilities in those areas.
[1:17:10] If you see negative numbers, what that means is that an area is technically over-supplied.
[1:17:14] Like, Pana Gord, it might have three neighborhood shopping centers, but it can really
[1:17:17] only support two-and-a-half in the rest of it as being met by the people surrounding that area.
[1:17:24] Here's a map.
[1:17:25] This map is not meant to be part of specific.
[1:17:28] It's more to say that, hey, in the burnt store corridor, I need a community shopping
[1:17:32] center, in a neighborhood shopping center.
[1:17:35] Also up in the mid-cluster, we can see that we have a new store called for in 34.
[1:17:40] 40 and 45, and then over in the west cluster, no later than 2035, we need another neighborhood
[1:17:47] over there.
[1:17:48] That's placed on commercial lands.
[1:17:50] I'd actually love to see that over in the west cluster, that one green shopping cart.
[1:17:54] I'd like to see that further south actually because that's for the population concentration
[1:17:58] really is.
[1:17:59] And the northern, where it says Inglewood, and you can see as that 41, whatever road that is, that's
[1:18:04] 41.
[1:18:06] It's what?
[1:18:06] seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, six. It goes east, west. We need to get further
[1:18:11] far enough of that area. It has a Walmart, two publics, and that area is not undersupplytes
[1:18:14] the area south of that that we're concerned about. All right, here's the chart I told you.
[1:18:20] I was going to show you. This is this is our data. We don't download anything from the internet.
[1:18:24] And so that's why I sort of limited and it doesn't have every county around you. But we have
[1:18:29] personally mind all of these numbers. And you can see how they average out around a hundred.
[1:18:36] But I think it's a useful comparison.
[1:18:38] If you look at Sarasota County and in Mananty County,
[1:18:42] those two would join each other, if you're familiar with
[1:18:44] the Sarasota Mall, that's right on the north line of
[1:18:48] Sarasota County.
[1:18:49] And surely that's why Mananty has a lower supply
[1:18:51] because they have two or three million square feet
[1:18:54] of commercial space they can come and enjoy.
[1:18:56] More of their spaces is to the north,
[1:18:59] but it averages out to be a hundred.
[1:19:00] That's why I'm saying that I think you need
[1:19:02] 75 square feet to be competitive and and and to be more economic and diverse too
[1:19:09] with the understanding that you can't just snap your fingers and create
[1:19:12] three-point square feet of more commercial space.
[1:19:18] This slide in table are all new and it's not meant to be preachy.
[1:19:23] It's really intended from my heart to be informative and maybe you already know this.
[1:19:27] This is not this year's tax taxable values.
[1:19:30] This is the 24-25 fiscal fiscal year.
[1:19:34] And what I'm trying to show you is how you compare against some other counties that I think
[1:19:38] have similar demographics to you, similar and not the same.
[1:19:43] In terms of where they're, so their taxable value, 81% of yours comes from residential.
[1:19:50] In Leigh at 83, Martin at 78, Sarasota 84.
[1:19:54] the vacant land. We like vacant land and that vacant land doesn't need services and yet it provides taxes.
[1:20:00] So that's a positive. Then we get to commercial, and we see that we're actually sort of falling
[1:20:07] behind up. We have a little bit behind when it comes to Lee Martin and Sarah Soda County's.
[1:20:12] So we'd like to, that's why I'd like to see that pop up a little bit.
[1:20:16] Yeah, Commissioner Constance, you recognize that.
[1:20:17] Thank you, sir. Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
[1:20:23] Let me go back and you're saying we're one of the lowest commercial square foot.
[1:20:28] I think I can't say that.
[1:20:29] But when you go to this slide and you're showing me these percentages, show me the vacancy
[1:20:36] rates, because I don't know that our commercial property is completely full.
[1:20:41] I mean, there's empty spaces at them, all right.
[1:20:44] So you're pushing for one thing, but then we need a lot more commercial, we need more industrial,
[1:20:49] but maybe industrial I'll agree with you, because I think whatever we have is getting
[1:20:52] you gobbled up.
[1:20:53] But commercial-wise, what is our vacancy rate for commercial?
[1:20:57] What's that number?
[1:20:57] So I don't know what the vacancy is, but what that's telling me for my perspective and I'm not arguing
[1:21:02] saying, I'm right, but my perspective is it means it's in the wrong location. There's too much
[1:21:06] Cluster in this area here where we need it and need about to pick up about a third of it and I need to
[1:21:11] spurs it around the county because that's where the demands are originally, like this was the core population here
[1:21:17] that's now turned into a business center and and I couldn't help but notice there's a lot of places to eat and
[1:21:23] some businesses, but I couldn't get over how many places there were to eat along the 41
[1:21:27] or, and I saw, and I don't want to pick on any businesses, I saw what used to be neighborhood
[1:21:35] shopping centers and now other things, okay, not to pick on something I saw, I've been
[1:21:39] go haul, perhaps things like that, I'm against being go, like that, like it, real for that.
[1:21:45] But, though examples of that are ideal for adding multi-family, I know you're going, oh my god,
[1:21:50] Dave, you just got to tell me, I'm growing my crazy, now you want me to grow some more?
[1:21:54] Well, the reason I have vacancies is because that one of customers in the area, and
[1:21:57] So by bringing in people, I have then future employees that can live close to where they're
[1:22:01] going to work, and easy to shop, close to transit, and all those things.
[1:22:06] I think what I see as vacancies, I see as opportunity to hopefully bring in some developers
[1:22:12] that specialize in redevelopment with retail, not knock down the retail, but remove parts
[1:22:16] of it and add residential uses in those places.
[1:22:20] So, you know, obviously you're looking at us at a moment in time, and every time you come back
[1:22:28] into the moment of time, but you don't understand the history, like some of the people
[1:22:32] to my right, who were here to watch a shopping center be built and then a grocery store,
[1:22:41] yeah, I'm skipping you, Roger.
[1:22:42] a grocery store close and a bingo hall open because across the street a Walmart was demolished
[1:22:52] and a huge public says, but I mean, so many things have happened where you're right.
[1:22:57] It was very concentrated and then things have been repurposed, reconstructed and then those
[1:23:03] former businesses very successful moved out, saw exactly what you're saying.
[1:23:09] I guess I always look at this problem because that's what this is a planning problem. Why wasn't this community planned better?
[1:23:19] I really have an issue with planners, you know, they have the title, but I just haven't seen them show up yet.
[1:23:25] You know, they seem to map out an area and say, well, this is where things are going to go, but obviously they don't have a crystal ball.
[1:23:32] But at this stage of the game, and I will use Babcock as an example, guess what, they're planning that community really well.
[1:23:41] They know where the commercials should be, they know how much there should be.
[1:23:46] And the years of experience and knowledge are now being actually put to work, and it's working.
[1:23:54] But I guess the plans that we were working off from the 60s were really not thinking about,
[1:23:59] Now, the amount of growth that was going to occur are the streets properly wide enough for
[1:24:05] future growth.
[1:24:07] And again, where are the nodes for communities, everybody's simply going to be one huge
[1:24:12] thing, everybody's going to drive there.
[1:24:14] Now, it doesn't make any sense.
[1:24:15] You need to have neighborhood facilities, so folks can, you know, pretty much stay local until
[1:24:20] they need something very special, they take special trip, or they're going for a service or
[1:24:26] activity, or go to the beach, go someplace where they can't get it in their backyard.
[1:24:31] But I find this fascinating.
[1:24:33] I mean, it really did.
[1:24:34] Right.
[1:24:36] So, Babcock has done a very good job.
[1:24:39] No ephans are about that.
[1:24:41] It's one thing, though, to design a town that you create from scratch, for 40,000 people, versus
[1:24:47] something that you all are trying to manage for a future of 500,000 people.
[1:24:51] And where they can make all the decisions, they only land, they can do whatever they want, you don't.
[1:24:55] and so planners plan but developers develop and so
[1:25:00] But they're planning and developing at the same time so they have that opportunity. And they don't want any leakage. They want everything to stay within. Because chances are good that they own most of the commercial property. They want to keep those revenues coming in. So they're making sure that people don't ever leave Babcock. They get everything they need right there. So I just find it, you know, that that's kind of how things should have been set up because you don't want folks burning rubber.
[1:25:26] Right, right. Well, in hopefully not bad pocket and just serve bad cock, I'm hoping that it actually serves the the community around it, right?
[1:25:33] They hopefully they'll get some medical facilities and people then won't have to come all the way in.
[1:25:37] I can't imagine someone's staying alive on the track from from Babcock all the way here in some sort of major emergency.
[1:25:43] They need medical emergency out there.
[1:25:45] Uh, not nothing against the, uh, the, um, our public safety officials are hiding, but it's just it's so far and the roads get so congested and,
[1:25:53] And we just we don't know population,
[1:25:55] but I'm hoping that that caucus actually a center
[1:25:57] for that whole area to serve the needs
[1:26:02] because it's an ideal node concentration
[1:26:03] of the commercial and population.
[1:26:06] Thank you.
[1:26:07] Commissioner Constance, I'll just say
[1:26:09] we all know the history of Charlotte County.
[1:26:11] General development wanted to sell lots.
[1:26:13] We have hundreds of thousands of plated lots.
[1:26:16] It was $10 down, $10 a month, and you buy a lot.
[1:26:20] and get your slice of the Florida Sunshine in Charlotte County for Blue collar worker of North.
[1:26:26] It's not a master plan of community like Babcock, you know, which, you know, started what 15 years ago
[1:26:32] whenever it was 20 years ago. So yeah, that's the reason that Port Charlotte was not planned
[1:26:37] out like Babcock was planned out and all the new newer communities are planned out and they look
[1:26:43] at these things because planning has gotten much better since the 1950s and 60s and, you know,
[1:26:48] they use some of those planning tools back then? Yeah we probably wouldn't have some of these issues
[1:26:53] like we have with the access roads off a 41. That's a mess. It's just a complete mess and
[1:27:00] you know, our board and future boards are going to have to deal with unpacking, unwinding and
[1:27:03] trying to fix it. And that's why we have our future land use map. You know, that accounts for,
[1:27:08] you know, the changing environment, you know, so when applications come forward,
[1:27:13] we look to the future land use map, you know, because the growth is changing and we may have to
[1:27:18] change with it in terms of those zoning decisions.
[1:27:21] Just like we're hearing today, you need more commercial here.
[1:27:23] You need more of this over there.
[1:27:25] And we look at that in our comp plan.
[1:27:28] Commissioner Truek's recognized sir.
[1:27:29] Thank you, thank you, Mr. Truek.
[1:27:30] So in West County, it's no different than Mid County.
[1:27:33] And as you know, the vote was over there.
[1:27:35] You got all of East Eagle Wood.
[1:27:38] You've got all the South Gulf Code,
[1:27:39] but then you also had Cavanagh Corporation
[1:27:41] that came in and did the same thing for Rotunda.
[1:27:44] And all the outlying areas of Rotunda and KPIs,
[1:27:48] But that's why it was important that we did the Lanar repladding in the North
[1:27:53] of the South Gulf Coast because they made that area a little bit more easy to get
[1:27:58] around in.
[1:27:59] It's more of a community so that North in the South Gulf Coast, that all got
[1:28:02] resones so you got Harbor West and Harbor East, right?
[1:28:05] And that I think was a good change in those are things that we need to modify
[1:28:08] to at times when we look at people, gobbling up land and being able to modify it and
[1:28:13] maybe make it more efficient for us for the future.
[1:28:16] But you look at Westport. I mean, Westport was a mess and I didn't like it that the government bought all the property back then.
[1:28:23] But we have a better outcome today. Hope we never do it again.
[1:28:26] Yeah. Well, that's a great point. So we took over 1,000 acres of land.
[1:28:30] Well, a commission did back in 2004 and there was a couple of 1,000 plated lots.
[1:28:35] So what do you have now? You have commercial nodes there. There's going to be a public stare.
[1:28:40] All those services to keep the trips internal and then you have a plan community.
[1:28:44] you have you know all the services there I think there's a dog park there's other things there and it's built around one of our regional parks
[1:28:51] So that's an example of good planning taking into account commercial and that's all I'm going right now
[1:28:56] I don't want to say it's a mini-bap cock, but it's got certain elements, you know, of the same type of planning
[1:29:02] So thank you
[1:29:04] Commissioner Treks told my thunder because I was gonna bring up Westport and that that
[1:29:12] 2003, when you will I did the study, recommending this and that and it went through a lot of
[1:29:18] hard times of the great recession and five other things, but it really has turned into a
[1:29:22] vibrant area and I would encourage you that that's a very pretty nice new area but I would argue
[1:29:31] that wouldn't be Westport by encouraging and someone having the intestinal fortitude to gather
[1:29:39] some lots around the West area where future, I'm sorry, the north, the mid area, especially
[1:29:45] and actually the southern part of West, to create these commercial centers, I'm not wagging
[1:29:51] my finger saying it's your job, you're the government, but we should be encouraging someone
[1:29:55] to do the aggregation that if you do this, you're likely to get commercial uses the things
[1:29:59] these people.
[1:30:00] We'll need on here to cut down on trips and so forth. So we can improve our planning, if you will.
[1:30:06] I know it's frustrating to say why wasn't done right to begin with, well, there's a lot of competing interests.
[1:30:11] We also don't own all the land like, but only a developer does, and you have full control over things. It's a challenge.
[1:30:17] And I'm just glad that we have a board that recognizes that, and is open to ideas, because it's exciting.
[1:30:25] some of the things that have changed from happen here. I would like to see you guys at least
[1:30:30] consider the idea of adding some multifamily to some of your larger commercial centers that
[1:30:36] maybe aren't doing so well. And it's not your fault that the units haven't gone and over at
[1:30:39] them all. I'm dying for that to happen. When those first 300 units go in, it won't happen overnight.
[1:30:46] But if in a couple of years that area will just the whole feeling will start to change and you'll
[1:30:50] this synergistic redevelopment occurring. I'm just, I'm itching waiting for that to happen.
[1:30:58] We have plans inside of that thing. We think you're going to see actually a grocery store show up in there at some point.
[1:31:03] It might only be in all these or something. We think that that could be a very important hub over there.
[1:31:08] Look, this board approved compact growth mixed use. We went out and we made the changes.
[1:31:14] We worked with economic development. We worked with staff to look at those things.
[1:31:18] up to the free markets to take advantage of it. We don't have control. We can set the table,
[1:31:23] which I think we did, but the free markets have to be the applicant and do that. We can't,
[1:31:28] as you said earlier, we can't make the markets spend their money. Right, and I read it an
[1:31:33] unfortunate article last night that most of the vacancies are hitting a new high for this whole area in
[1:31:40] and Naples made up some sort of national top 10 list of places that had higher vacancies and
[1:31:50] in Fort Myers did as well.
[1:31:52] So it's not going to happen tomorrow, but I think in the next four or five years, it's
[1:31:55] a real possibility that we could see renewed activity at that location, hopefully sooner.
[1:32:01] Hopefully.
[1:32:01] Well historically, the markets are cyclical.
[1:32:03] We know that.
[1:32:05] So we're going to have our ups and downs.
[1:32:09] Right.
[1:32:10] because we want to see that. I love to see 4,500 units show up at that mall. Back to this
[1:32:16] chart here just for a second. So we also see the industrial worth a lower tier of, you know,
[1:32:21] Lee and Martin have 3% of their development or their taxes coming from industrial.
[1:32:26] I'd love to see more of that. Again, I know you guys, you aren't kings, you can't control everything,
[1:32:32] but given the opportunity, let's promote more industrial and commercial, not just commercial,
[1:32:38] commercial safe, but in the right places and employment centers, of course, we want to promote
[1:32:42] those. So organically, we think you're going to see another million square feet of industrial
[1:32:48] show up, which is a real positive. What rhymes with amendment 3? Oops. I guess amendment 3.
[1:32:55] So amendment 3 passes. Thing commercial and industrial properties are going to be even more
[1:33:01] valuable, that's where more of our available tax base can come from.
[1:33:06] With all this said, your ratio right now, I'm at the beginning head of myself, it's about
[1:33:12] 30 square feet per capita, again at the much lower end, you're only one square foot away
[1:33:18] from call here, but call here is not exactly known for wanting to do a lot of industrial space.
[1:33:22] With you guys having this really nice airport right here, I think it's a jewel we can really,
[1:33:27] you know, it's our anchor, so it's like a mall that's built around it and build it up
[1:33:31] so that it can be everything and be the close proximity
[1:33:34] to 75 and moving freight.
[1:33:37] They're all wonderful things.
[1:33:38] With that said, I'd love to see you have even more land.
[1:33:41] That's how it's slide about three from now.
[1:33:43] I'd like to thank you.
[1:33:44] Mr. Concentrate, I'll go quick.
[1:33:46] This industrial slide where it says what you think the man is going to be.
[1:33:49] So you're giving me the numerator.
[1:33:52] What's the denominator?
[1:33:53] What's the current amount of acreage in each one of these zones?
[1:33:57] I'm the comparison.
[1:33:59] I hid that column.
[1:34:01] I'll get that to you.
[1:34:02] It's available.
[1:34:04] OK, I mean, get that on there.
[1:34:04] Well, you have, so you have about 7 million, I think, square feet, if you recall, 7.8 million,
[1:34:10] or something, I think it's like 7.8 million square feet.
[1:34:13] But just in other words, just you're giving us the acreage that would be demanded.
[1:34:17] You can just get us what is the current amount.
[1:34:20] Sure.
[1:34:20] I mean, some of them might be over.
[1:34:22] Some of them may be way at well above the current level, but in future it won't be enough.
[1:34:26] Right.
[1:34:26] Well, on a per capita basis, but the industry is completely, the airport has way more
[1:34:30] industrial on a per capita basis, but that's not about people, that's more about employment
[1:34:34] than so.
[1:34:34] Are you categorizing verteports as commercial or industrial?
[1:34:40] We don't have any of those yet, so...
[1:34:43] Well, I get that.
[1:34:43] But if there's a demand for it, would that be categorized as correctly?
[1:34:46] Exactly.
[1:34:46] Okay, so technically code 20 in the Department of Revenue's codes for airports and such, that's
[1:34:51] an industrial use.
[1:34:52] So that I could understand, and those will be popping up wherever it's logistically possible
[1:34:57] with our power lines, but they can be almost there.
[1:35:00] Anywhere. And this is not me saying it's just I'm reporting the facts. Don't shoot the messenger. But technically, mini-storage is also industrial if you because it's we're housing.
[1:35:12] Okay. Thank you.
[1:35:15] Okay. This, this graph is not mine. This said, a Jordan over in economic development. Jordan Ray helped develop this for me for this presentation.
[1:35:25] It is updated. The numbers are slightly different. We note that at the top in the green industrial and being 2% of our of our of our employment base
[1:35:35] And
[1:35:35] You've here we've had a lot of some brand names. I'm not being paid. I'm not wearing a t-shirt in here. There where I get sponsorship or anything
[1:35:41] But chainie brothers. We want to see more of that type of of development. You know, there's 550 jobs over there and if I skip ahead
[1:35:50] We get into multipliers, and so if you think about the 500 and 50 jobs, they bring in almost another
[1:35:55] thousand jobs in terms of
[1:35:58] If you fall away from your bank teller to waitresses to your car mechanics of the people who do AC and in the
[1:36:05] Carpet stores and all those things, so we want to see more of that type of development around the airport and what's great about
[1:36:11] Cheney is it really doesn't depend on how your local economy is doing
[1:36:14] They're selling ketchup and mustard napkins all over southwest Florida, and so you're benefiting in all those dollars
[1:36:20] for in-term wages come back here, and then it's spent locally in the economy.
[1:36:25] Want more of that going on?
[1:36:26] Commissioner Drex.
[1:36:28] To that point, the public has a piece of property out there as well, and so, you know, the
[1:36:35] number of public stores that are going to be built here, both in Westport, Burstore Road,
[1:36:39] the redo in the one in Engelwood right now, making it a much larger, much more updated facility.
[1:36:46] It might make sense for them to start looking at actually building their facility because it's in the middle of so many stores now
[1:36:53] Not just Charlotte County, obviously, but for their future. So I could see them doing that in the next five years.
[1:36:58] Well, I got one in the creek don't rise. I mean, they they when did they buy I think 25 years ago
[1:37:03] It was a long time ago. That's a major capital investment. They made very bright though, too, being at the airport in a good location
[1:37:09] that company really thinks forward, I really respect and for that, but I'd also, okay,
[1:37:14] dirt is nice, but let's get some building and some jobs going on here too, and you know,
[1:37:18] with all the new stores going in and Charlotte Lee and Carter County's, this would make an excellent
[1:37:22] location for to locate that. And since I've worked in all three jurisdictions for the
[1:37:29] MPOs, if you guys would like the store demands, I can provide those to you if you want to market
[1:37:33] the public's free of charge.
[1:37:38] Here's a breakdown, this is actually from last year of what you have.
[1:37:44] So industrial can be sort of a hard cell and that on average you're at about 280,
[1:37:48] about 300,000 an acre, as you know most houses are assessed at that and you have more
[1:37:53] of those per acre.
[1:37:54] But the difference is that people need things in industrial commercial generally don't need
[1:37:59] a lot of services.
[1:38:00] And so I'm going to go back to this fiscal issues and fiscal neutrality, both commercial and
[1:38:07] industrial.
[1:38:07] They're really the keys to that.
[1:38:08] And there's a bullet point right above the table that industrial land generates that
[1:38:13] one thousand times a revenue of aglan.
[1:38:15] And so I'd like to see some of the aglan around the airport area converted to industrial uses.
[1:38:22] And so here's another table similar to the commercial shows you at 30 square foot on
[1:38:26] cap in a basis and then you compare to look at these others and look this doesn't happen
[1:38:31] overnight you don't snap your fingers but there is absolutely room for you to grow your
[1:38:36] intensity. If you my goal for you would be 55 and I'm one of those most mindsets that we
[1:38:44] don't have to reach 55 to be successful. I'd like to reach for 55 and if we hit 45 which is
[1:38:49] 50% more per capita and you have now I still think that's a home run in terms of tax-based
[1:38:54] jobs, all the things that they come with that.
[1:38:58] If you wanted to reach 55 or 45, so even 45, you'd need another about 450 acres in
[1:39:04] addition to what you have now that is zone industrial to make that happen in when it's
[1:39:09] all developed and such.
[1:39:12] And again, I recognize you have probably a lot of petitions asking for different things.
[1:39:17] You are the ones that have to balance the competing interests.
[1:39:19] I'm just looking at the numbers and saying, well, if it made no political difference, I'd love to see more industrial lands.
[1:39:26] Commissioner Constance.
[1:39:30] Yes, sir.
[1:39:32] So in the northern part of your recap, there's quite a bit of wetlands.
[1:39:35] And so that sort of degrades the utility, the usability of the land,
[1:39:41] it's more difficult to build around so forth.
[1:39:45] So the stuff south of the airport is some pretty gorgeous stuff.
[1:39:47] But it's disturbed, if you will, so it's easier to permit and use.
[1:39:56] Is your mic concert?
[1:39:58] Thanks, sir.
[1:39:58] It is already bleeding.
[1:40:03] And I think you're already doing this, but I would be remiss if I didn't say so. When we have more industrial happens down there normally and get talking about planners.
[1:40:16] In the 60s, the rules were that child not have commercial industrial anywhere in your people. Let's have those two separate. Those are incompatible uses.
[1:40:25] And I get where that theory came from, but then the problem is then we have lots of whole lot
[1:40:29] of driving between that and so where it's appropriate, where it can be designed right.
[1:40:34] I'd love to see some multi-family put in with some of that industrial so that we don't
[1:40:37] have the workers driving along distances that they don't have, especially with now you got Walmart,
[1:40:43] Walmart, Walmart, Publix, all these and a whole bunch of other, I can't name all the stores
[1:40:49] that I just saw, I came online to politely know that that's a wonderful place to live
[1:40:53] now, and it'd be great to have more people living there that can take advantage of patronized
[1:40:57] those new businesses.
[1:41:01] Just more talking about, as we increase the industrial allocation, we could be more competitive
[1:41:08] with these other counties, without naming counties, but it sounds like those two other ones.
[1:41:14] They have a lot of wetland issues on their lands.
[1:41:16] I'm very familiar with their entitlements, our not entitlements, but their allocations of industrial
[1:41:21] lands, you guys have some of the best land available for, I mean, it be zoned in
[1:41:27] Australia now, but for industrial uses, it's more readily permittable and
[1:41:34] usable close to 75. The stuff in Northward is also close to 75, but it's intensely
[1:41:40] what, if you look at it, not being wetland scientist, but you can see from the area that
[1:41:45] the trees there are likely well in the nature. The last slide here,
[1:41:50] Bullets, I don't read the whole slide.
[1:41:51] You just put on a gore, no, you know this,
[1:41:53] what a valuable asset you guys have.
[1:41:56] And let's build on that, because it really is
[1:41:59] like what seers used to be to a mall, right?
[1:42:01] The big, the anchor, and we can build around that,
[1:42:04] and the amount of employment that we can be created,
[1:42:06] is just enormous.
[1:42:09] Okay, last two slides here.
[1:42:11] So I just read the, so you've had 26,000 new housing units
[1:42:15] and 50,000 new residents show up since the census.
[1:42:19] And with that has come a degradation
[1:42:21] in levels of service and I know it doesn't hit it a good time, especially looking at how
[1:42:27] tax levels might change and such. It's important to evaluate, especially our public safety,
[1:42:33] our sheriff, and our fire departments at EMS and making sure they have the right facilities
[1:42:39] and the right locations to allow them to do their jobs and reach the people in appropriate
[1:42:45] months of time. We want to monitor, so the aggregate amount of commercial, so the
[1:42:50] amount of commercial is one thing, but we especially want to make sure it's in the right place.
[1:42:57] That's why I'm saying to the northern part of your mid-cluster and the southern part of
[1:43:00] your west cluster, Bavococcus state and care of itself. We'd like to see more commercial, and
[1:43:06] I don't mean like one acre lots. Fifty one acre lots is not the same thing as even 20 acres
[1:43:10] of developable land where we can locate some of these services.
[1:43:15] Planning for the shopping centers by those locations, please use that map.
[1:43:19] And when you're looking at deliberating, whether you should approve a project or not,
[1:43:22] that map, again, is not part of specific, but it shows you where those facilities are needed.
[1:43:27] And it's also critical to reserve land for our future share of substations, fire stations, parks,
[1:43:34] those sorts of things.
[1:43:36] I know we've worked for both libraries and parks on their master plans and and more lands are needed for them at least if reservation if not if not flat out purchase
[1:43:46] This top bullet here is just same for the third time that
[1:43:51] Community consider policy changes of the ads and density to somebody's older commercial facilities that are tired maybe have space. It's not needed in the location where they were greatly needed in the whenever they were built today's a different day. Now we need when we have dilapidated commercial commercial it's not
[1:44:06] economically viable, it's because we don't have no people. We put more people in that area,
[1:44:10] it helps balance that whole equation out. Updating this model is, I believe, helpful to you guys.
[1:44:16] You guys are in a given session, probably make between $10, $50 million worth of the decisions.
[1:44:22] And this data I believe is helpful too, if you make just one right decision from it, it pays for itself.
[1:44:29] And with that, I'm going to go off the rails for just a second. So last year we were able to
[1:44:33] successfully challenged Bieber when Bieber came out with your population number. We were able to
[1:44:38] conclusively show the state revised their data to our number that we were able to prove.
[1:44:44] I believe that I can't prove that, but let's talk to your finance people. I think that added
[1:44:48] somewhere between three and 500,000 permanent revenue per year by winning that argument. Having
[1:44:54] updated data, we are cocked and loaded ready for when the letter comes in the next 10 days to see it.
[1:44:59] and maybe nothing.
[1:45:00] We are ready to support you and make sure you get your fair share. Don't worry, sir, your contract still in place.
[1:45:07] I see where you're going there. Well, I'll be pay for ourselves, but our data is credible. The state didn't roll over.
[1:45:16] That was a whole bunch of emails. Ben can tell you. I do want to say that I love what I do for a living numbers of my thing. I appreciate you.
[1:45:24] I would not have a job without you, and I'm sincerely grateful
[1:45:28] and any other questions I'm happy to answer.
[1:45:30] Any questions from Mr. Farmer?
[1:45:32] Commissioner Constance?
[1:45:33] Yeah, I just wanted to go over a couple things.
[1:45:35] So your 2030 data point, I mean, we're getting closer.
[1:45:40] So how confident are you in that?
[1:45:44] Because that's still predictive.
[1:45:47] I mean, the slope could go a little, go back to the dots.
[1:45:52] Yeah, keep going.
[1:45:55] Sorry, I don't know.
[1:45:58] So the first blue dot is that the current data, no, that's a fort, the, uh, I think it is because that's before that's like that looks like it's kind of, yep, that's correct. So you're, you're saying you think things are going to slow down by 2030. What if they don't?
[1:46:14] What, what if you have a similar slope and you come back to us in two years and go guys, we, we tried to stay conservative and we goofed again and actually it's,
[1:46:24] it's still creep, so that's a possibility.
[1:46:27] Not only a possibility, but please don't fire me.
[1:46:32] But I will tell you that we do not use, we do not take dots and rulers and pencils and
[1:46:37] draw straight lines.
[1:46:39] So your peak permitting, I think, was around 5,500 units.
[1:46:42] I think it was something like that.
[1:46:44] You're down in the 32, 3,300 units per year.
[1:46:48] When I went back, we don't use that to build the models, but when I went back and I took
[1:46:52] housing and it's in did the math we are we are right at the your current level of permitting
[1:46:57] so if you're permitting happens to go up from here yeah our numbers are going to be low what I
[1:47:02] wanted to do I wasn't expecting you to go the direction you went most people are like oh you
[1:47:06] could that there's nowhere near that number people are going to show up and I'm like I'm positive
[1:47:09] this no people they're going to show up sort of some major major recession popping out of nowhere
[1:47:14] this is like a minimum and to your points or yes 20,000 more people could show up will they
[1:47:21] I don't know, I think that when I look at all of your permitting over the last 30 years,
[1:47:27] I look back at the great recession when my stomach gets upset and I look at, you know,
[1:47:31] permitting four or five pounds a year compared to a permanent 5,000 a year, I still think
[1:47:37] you're, I think you're in a linear phase of about 3,03500 per month a year, what will change
[1:47:44] when Westport builds out in the lab cock?
[1:47:46] I think by that time the fire will have caught and your your your your
[1:47:51] plat of lots will then maintain that velocity for years to come move ahead
[1:47:56] two three slides to the bar charts for the housing and then the population the
[1:48:00] bar charts.
[1:48:02] Yeah, I had forward forward forward.
[1:48:05] Yeah, so what you you know you said Babcock Ranch you have increased you have
[1:48:10] more people in the housing units same thing with mid-county West County not so much
[1:48:15] you mentioned that, but mid-county, the west ports and the bad crock, there's a very,
[1:48:21] there's a real similarity because both of them, when you see those housing units on the
[1:48:25] next slide, the population jumps up for both of those and everything else is down.
[1:48:30] So that was interesting that, again, there's more people per unit, is that what you're saying?
[1:48:33] So, does it because of the multi-family or, I think, I think it's more families,
[1:48:39] not not not single or multi-family, but the character of who's choosing to live there,
[1:48:42] And I think Babcock and Mid are attracting more families at West.
[1:48:49] When you look at the areas that looks like their families, because we see Plate, we look deep.
[1:48:53] We're looking at swimming pools, we're looking at swimming sets, we want to see who's living there, right?
[1:48:58] And so I'm surprised by the sense of demographics are actually lower than what it might look like.
[1:49:04] And we are relying on census data, or demographics, Babcock, we actually get that directly from the developer from their internal surveys.
[1:49:12] Next slide, those barrier island dots could it be that those are new construction, but could be that those houses were completely wiped out and now you're building a brand new house on a wiped out lot.
[1:49:25] Absolutely, I did not review the demo permits. You're absolutely covered with this happening there.
[1:49:34] And then, you know, with Brent store road not having enough commercial remember, and I don't know if we've mentioned this before, but a bunch of commercial was repurposed as storm water.
[1:49:43] for the road to go in. And we had a very heated conversation in these chambers with zoning and planning to try to figure out why was that done.
[1:49:52] I never think, I thought that never should have been done. I think that never should have been allowed. Those areas were set up for commercial if they wanted to find storm more.
[1:50:00] What are they needed to find something else? So now what's happening is we're having a repurposed residential
[1:50:04] back to commercial. It's crazy, but that's the situation that we're in. And that's what you're
[1:50:11] pointing to for the future. Right. Well, now you have, I believe, two parcels are two groups
[1:50:15] of parcels down there now that there's a newer one. I think it was just a proof, I think, is that
[1:50:19] 180,000 or something like that. And so now you, I think you had the lands available now. It's
[1:50:23] more about the developers and the money and the finance and getting that in. And maybe some
[1:50:27] They're waiting for us to see just how those three projects are progressing, but certainly we're going to be seeing more commercial down that way
[1:50:34] I can't speak to why commercial land was and maybe that was DOT and not, you know
[1:50:40] You all
[1:50:42] But so then the last just if you could get back to us with commercial vacancy rates and industrial vacancy rates just so we can understand
[1:50:49] I don't really have the vacancy rates on that I have the amount of commercial square footage and acres
[1:50:54] I don't have vacancy
[1:50:56] This isn't that coming to your calculus, you say we're short, but then if the vacancy rates are high, then where are we?
[1:51:03] Well, vacancy to me points to about the use is not necessarily space.
[1:51:08] You've seen, you've seen dilapidated places, you've seen a different return of moving,
[1:51:11] and suddenly boom, the old place comes to life.
[1:51:13] Like the Trader Joe is located in one of your places that wasn't successful.
[1:51:17] I guarantee that we come on a new magnet because people want that use.
[1:51:20] And my final question is how much are you seeing businesses trying to build workforce housing on their property because I've always felt that's the future?
[1:51:32] Are they embracing that because you brought it up a little bit?
[1:51:35] But for me it makes the most sense that you buy 50% more land than you think you're going to need for your use and you put in some multifamily units for your workforce and it's part of the package deal
[1:51:46] and you know you can attract folks that you can pay them a decent wage and not worry about
[1:51:52] commute and not worried about them having an affordability. I'd love to work for you,
[1:51:56] but I can't find place to live. The two groups I've seen do that for better words are hospital's
[1:52:01] healthcare and school districts. I'd like to see more of that done. I also lament when we see
[1:52:08] affordable housing is only affordable for 30 years and it's like the magic the problem goes away
[1:52:12] which it doesn't, but that's a different issue for a different day. As always, thank you for your time.
[1:52:16] pleasure and I'll get the same to you.
[1:52:18] It's probably one of the most important updates we get.
[1:52:21] It helps us fly the plane better.
[1:52:23] I think it's important to keep the regular updates coming so we can keep looking for the little things along the way before it become big things.
[1:52:28] Thank you.
[1:52:29] Thank you.
[1:52:29] Thank you.
[1:52:30] Thank you, David.
[1:52:31] I just want to thank you again.
[1:52:32] These are always.
[1:52:33] They're enjoyable to go through.
[1:52:35] I know for some people.
[1:52:36] It's maybe mundane.
[1:52:37] But like you, I love getting into data and I find fascinating.
[1:52:41] And then it also really does help this board look to the future.
[1:52:43] So how we continue to change the modify for what's coming?
[1:52:47] So thank you.
[1:52:47] It's all you could see too.
[1:52:48] Thank you very much.
[1:52:49] Yeah.
[1:52:49] Thanks for the information.
[1:52:50] Commissioner Constance.
[1:52:51] I would say whoever was on the board during that burn store, land acquisition, the board
[1:52:57] approved those purchases, whether it was to eminent domain.
[1:53:00] If the board didn't want to use that particular property for storm water, they should have
[1:53:05] just denied the purchase.
[1:53:07] So I'm not really, I wasn't here back then.
[1:53:09] But, you know, if the complaint is the county used commercial property for storm water, I mean the border prove that.
[1:53:17] It doesn't happen in a vacuum. So again, I wasn't here back then.
[1:53:22] And again, thank you for the information. It is a great planning tool.
[1:53:25] And I would point to our most recent budget hearing.
[1:53:29] Where we have our budget divided up into two big parts operating in capital.
[1:53:34] and you can see the capital part is increasing to reflect those infrastructure requirements that
[1:53:40] you're kind of talking about in this. I think the board recognizes that as well as you know
[1:53:45] going for you know 20 year sales tax period this time and we've we've loaded it with
[1:53:52] items from our CNA capital needs assessment to make sure we're addressing those things for the long term.
[1:53:59] So that was one of the things that we're doing as a board commissioner, Dory Reckonester.
[1:54:02] Thank you very much.
[1:54:05] Yes, sir.
[1:54:05] Keep a keen eye on our building permits and COs day.
[1:54:09] Yes, sir.
[1:54:10] And see if there's a shift in trends up or down.
[1:54:13] You know, because I think that's the data.
[1:54:14] I look at our report.
[1:54:15] We get from community development every month.
[1:54:18] And it's hanging right in over 200 COs per month.
[1:54:23] That's pretty astounding.
[1:54:24] You know, reasonably speaking, I think.
[1:54:27] Pretty heavy.
[1:54:28] To that point, like to go a quick shout out to Tara Prince.
[1:54:31] She has been a huge asset to us in providing data.
[1:54:35] It was very, very quickly allows us to do our job.
[1:54:37] But she yields me on Saturday Sunday.
[1:54:40] She's a prince.
[1:54:41] Thank you very much.
[1:54:42] Thank you.
[1:54:42] All right.
[1:54:42] Any further comments on this?
[1:54:43] I'll come to your constant.
[1:54:45] Mr. Chairman, no, not on the site.
[1:54:46] But could we go to the public hearing?
[1:54:48] Yes, I was going to say that next.
[1:54:50] OK, thank you, sir.
[1:54:51] Thank you.
[1:54:51] If there's no objection from the board,
[1:54:53] I wanted to dispense with item T2.
[1:54:56] Advent Health bond issue.
[1:54:57] We have representatives of the hospital that have been.
[1:55:00] And here, if there's no objection, we're going to go ahead and do that. Okay. Who is going to present on that?
[1:55:07] Chair, I can, I can tee up just a couple of points. So we have been calling the director.
[1:55:12] Sorry, I have to floor some county administrator. But I appreciate their team, because we've been
[1:55:29] with the bond, we're helping facilitate the hearing and the requested resolution and then
[1:55:35] attending in person.
[1:55:36] We've got Adam Johnson, CEO of Advent Health, and Kaylee Tuck from Gray Robinson's Fort
[1:55:41] Myers office.
[1:55:42] Thank you for waiting and being with us.
[1:55:44] And then on teams, we have Chris Wallrath and Kristen Wash Hillson, their bond council
[1:55:50] with the firm of Chapman and Cutler, and then I'm going to turn it over to Chris,
[1:55:55] believe he is there on teams and he'll speak to the the purpose of the hearing and the requested
[1:56:00] resolution to prove so. Chris, it's all yours. Thanks for waiting, bye bye.
[1:56:03] No worries. Thank you very much. Good morning, everybody.
[1:56:07] As Hector said, Chris will name for the record sir. Sure, Chris for Wall Wrap from Chapman
[1:56:12] in color. We are bond counsel to Edvin Health. Thank you.
[1:56:17] Okay, welcome. So as Hector said, the reason for the hearing today and the request for a resolution
[1:56:22] is to authorize and then help in their issuing partners, both the Colorado Health Facilities Authority
[1:56:28] and the Highlands County Health Facilities Authority, to issue tax exempt revenue bonds for the
[1:56:34] system. In this case, for the facilities that they now own in poor Charlotte. The way that the
[1:56:40] federal income tax law works in order to go ahead and finance something out of tax exempt basis,
[1:56:46] you need to have public hearing and location for all the projects are located. And so that's the
[1:56:51] request for this year and today. The materials that you have in front of you authorized
[1:56:56] bonds in the amount of $200,000,000,000 in each program. So $400,000 for the facilities
[1:57:03] in Port Charlotte over the next three years by the Colorado Health facilities authority
[1:57:08] and by the Highlands County Health facilities authority. Both of these issuers have cross-border
[1:57:13] powers and that's why we're able to go ahead and finance facilities outside of Colorado and
[1:57:18] outside of Highlands County with bonds, even though that issue or doesn't have a prime
[1:57:26] location in Charlotte County.
[1:57:29] As Hector said, there's no liability to Charlotte County.
[1:57:31] Here, this hearing is just for federal income tax purposes only.
[1:57:36] The county's name won't be on any of the offering documents has no liability and, you know,
[1:57:43] With respect to this, it's a very common plan that we do across the country to get approvals like this.
[1:57:50] And haven't helped, I know greatly appreciate the county's ability to assist us in this endeavor
[1:57:55] and will allow us to finance facilities at that poor Charlotte hospital over the next several years
[1:58:01] at a more cost-effective pace.
[1:58:04] Thank you, sir.
[1:58:04] Any questions for open up the public?
[1:58:07] Okay, we're going to open this item up to the public.
[1:58:08] anybody which can speak on this item, you will have five minutes
[1:58:11] date your name for the record. Anybody from the public,
[1:58:14] which can speak on item T2, please come forward,
[1:58:17] state your name for the record, you'll have five minutes.
[1:58:19] Mr. Chairman, I see no one rising and we'll close public input.
[1:58:22] So, we have motion, second and closed public input,
[1:58:24] is there any further discussion? Is there any opposite
[1:58:26] to the motion? That passage unanimously.
[1:58:28] Mr. Chairman, there is a solution.
[1:58:30] Second. We have motion, second. The move to resolution,
[1:58:32] is there any further discussion? Is there any opposite to the motion?
[1:58:35] That passage unanimously.
[1:58:37] Okay, thank you, sir.
[1:58:39] Excellent, thank you everybody.
[1:58:40] Thank you.
[1:58:41] We're going to go back to our regular agenda item S3-26 local government area of opportunity.
[1:58:52] Mrs. Turner, you're recognized to present.
[1:59:08] Good morning, commissioners.
[1:59:09] For the record, Colling Turner, Charlotte County Human Services.
[1:59:13] I'm here this morning, on behalf of the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee,
[1:59:17] presenting to you their recommendation for 2026 local government area of opportunity.
[1:59:25] What is LGAO?
[1:59:28] It's a method where local government is given an opportunity to determine where affordable housing
[1:59:32] is located in our community.
[1:59:35] It's designed by Florida Housing Finance Corporation so that we have some skin in the game.
[1:59:41] This is a permanent source of funding and each local government can commit one commitment
[1:59:46] of LGAO funding for any particular RFA.
[1:59:53] There are several priority goals that Florida Housing
[1:59:56] will fund in 2026 and permit.
[2:00:00] Ready projects are given a priority boost for each goal. Continuous support year over year of a project results
[2:00:08] in higher priority in Florida housing RFAs.
[2:00:14] So for 2026, Florida housing issued their RFA 2026201, which is the 9% low-income housing tax credit for small and medium counties.
[2:00:26] That was issued on July 16th. Applications are due August 11th. Applicants to that RFA must
[2:00:33] secure verification of local contribution of a minimum of $340,000. While that can be issued
[2:00:40] in a grant or alone, our proposal is for alone. Charlotte Home and the Board of County Commissioners
[2:00:48] issued an RFA on May 4th with a deadline of June 5th, and we received two applications.
[2:00:58] Provided for you is an overview of various nuances of each property or each proposal, and
[2:01:07] you can see in this side by side comparison that they ranked fairly similarly.
[2:01:13] Both properties, both proposed properties, are very desirable to your affordable housing
[2:01:18] advisory committee and staff.
[2:01:21] They scored very nearly the same, slightly lower AMI on average for Blue Deep Creek 2 and
[2:01:31] slightly closer proximity to shopping and employment and things of that nature for Murdoch
[2:01:37] Square.
[2:01:37] Back up a little bit, Blue Deep Creek 2, is Phase 2 of a project that you awarded LGAO2 in 2023.
[2:01:52] That is 70 units of affordable housing. This Phase 2 proposal would bring an additional 84 units of affordable housing on the same site.
[2:02:03] You can see the unit mix for those units that they're proposing and the rent range, recognizing that these are one and two bedroom apartments.
[2:02:14] The loan terms for LGIO should blue deep creek be selected is a 30 year at 3.62%
[2:02:23] The amortized for 30 years the term is 15.
[2:02:26] Their estimated leaseup would be May of 2028.
[2:02:29] Their experience, their ability to provide property management, things of that nature are listed
[2:02:36] here and included in their full application that was provided to you, and they are currently
[2:02:41] in partnership with us on a couple of affordable housing developments, and they are in good
[2:02:47] standing and in compliance with rental monitoring.
[2:02:51] They are not permit ready.
[2:02:53] They do not have continuous local government support.
[2:02:56] They are in an area of opportunity, but they do not meet the statistical area of difficult
[2:03:03] development area criteria.
[2:03:07] Those three things are priority goals for Florida Housing.
[2:03:11] Blue Diet Creek received a Charlotte Home Score of 86,
[2:03:17] Murdoch Square, slightly larger, 88
[2:03:20] units of affordable housing on veterans.
[2:03:22] This is a live local act proposed property for families.
[2:03:30] It's a mix of one-to-and-three bedroom apartments.
[2:03:33] Their rent range is shared.
[2:03:35] Their AMI on average is slightly higher because as they noted in their comments,
[2:03:39] they intend to serve a few up to 70% area median income.
[2:03:43] So that changed their score slightly within Charlotte home.
[2:03:50] Same loan terms for the 340,000 if it is awarded to them with the exception of a slightly higher
[2:03:55] interest rate of 4.09, their lease up is anticipated for October of 28.
[2:04:01] Their experience, their ability to provide property management is explained in the overview
[2:04:05] and in their full application that was provided to you.
[2:04:08] We have no prior performance concerns or conditions to share because we've not partnered
[2:04:13] with them in affordable housing previously.
[2:04:17] They are not yet permit ready.
[2:04:18] They did receive 2025, local government support.
[2:04:22] This year would give them two years of continuous support.
[2:04:26] They are in an area of opportunity and they do meet the Sada goal.
[2:04:32] They received a score of 82.
[2:04:37] So we had an open public review and scoring session for the Charlotte Home Review Committee on June 15th.
[2:04:43] As I noted, Blue Deep Creek had a slightly higher score.
[2:04:49] And the most competitive for the Florida Housing RFA-2026-2001
[2:04:54] was deemed to be Murdoch Square.
[2:04:57] The Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, I see a typo.
[2:05:00] They met on June 24, not the 23rd, and they had much deliberation, and saw that same overview received some additional documentation from the housing trust group about their impression about their competitiveness in the RFA this year.
[2:05:17] And they agree, both projects are very highly desired, but we can only choose one.
[2:05:23] And they opted to go for the one who would be most competitive at the Florida Housing RFA process in 2026.
[2:05:30] So that is their recommendation to you.
[2:05:33] Some key factors to consider as you deliberate who your local preferences for the country.
[2:05:39] Can you explain again and just so it's clear why the Murdoch Square is most likely to be funded?
[2:05:46] I can. There are, I believe, eight separate goals that Florida Housing will fund in their
[2:05:55] RFA process as they review applications. And one is current local government support. One
[2:06:02] is continuous local government support for two years. One is a sun rail goal that doesn't
[2:06:06] apply to us. One is for the GAO and Sada goal.
[2:06:12] When the information, what is sought to stand for again?
[2:06:15] Statistical area of difficult development area.
[2:06:21] Kind of strange, but that is what it is.
[2:06:24] So, the bottom line is housing trust group
[2:06:28] contends that they qualify for five of the eight separate goals
[2:06:33] within Florida Housing's review process
[2:06:35] and that BlueJick Creek would this year only qualify for three
[2:06:40] of those same goals.
[2:06:41] So the likelihood of housing trust group having more bicep apples, so to speak, is their
[2:06:48] contention.
[2:06:49] They both agreed, however, in discussions that because neither of them right now, at the
[2:06:53] time of application, are permit ready, that funding for either of them in this cycle is less
[2:07:02] likely, because in each goal, Florida housing will fund the permit ready project.
[2:07:08] That meets that goal first and then others if possible.
[2:07:13] Thank you.
[2:07:16] So for Blue Deep Creek, this is the completion of phase two of an existing development in Deep Creek.
[2:07:23] All tenants are below 60% AMI.
[2:07:26] Area meeting income.
[2:07:28] That's a little less competitive in 2026.
[2:07:31] They stated earlier and continue to contend they will be permit ready in time for 2027 LGAO.
[2:07:36] GAO and their belief is with local government support in 2026 and local government continuous
[2:07:43] support in 2027, they would be most competitive for that cycle next year for the 9% tax
[2:07:51] credit for Blue Deep Creek. Murdoch Square, on the other hand, it's a new development in Port
[2:07:56] Charlotte. It's a live local act location. 44% of their tenants would be slightly higher than 60%
[2:08:03] May I? They are more competitive in this cycle. And we do believe we do agree with that
[2:08:09] contention. Staff do agree that they are more competitive in 2026. They're eligible for
[2:08:15] three goals. And they have proximity to medical and work.
[2:08:23] In the past you've funded the
[2:08:25] Verandas of Punagora to three by new start development. And you have funded Blue Deep Creek
[2:08:30] Phase I, I Blue Sky communities, they are about to lease up and we are very excited about
[2:08:37] that. It's probably more likely August than July.
[2:08:43] I also want to note that both developers
[2:08:45] are in the room. As are a few A-hack members who were present for the deliberation on June
[2:08:53] 24th and open to have any discussion, answer any questions you might have. We are asking that
[2:08:58] You consider the AHAC recommendation for local preference and select your preferred development
[2:09:03] that you authorize a $340,000 affordable housing trust fund loan for the selected applicant
[2:09:11] based on their proposed terms, and that that loan would be contingent upon the award
[2:09:17] of the Florida Housing Finance Corporations RFA for Leitech, and that you would authorize the
[2:09:23] chairman to sign the required verification of contribution forms on behalf of the selected
[2:09:28] development. Thank you. Yeah, I would just for you all up to date. Obviously, I've been on a
[2:09:35] hack for a long time. I was at the the last meeting. Both applicants came in had an opportunity
[2:09:41] to present. Take Q and A from all the members. It was a very, very good thorough discussion.
[2:09:49] As you all know, the A hack has some really, really good knowledgeable people,
[2:09:54] very engaged group in everything affordable housing, which is our role.
[2:10:00] And we made that recommendation again through those vigorous discussions. There was one person who did not support the recommendation out of the group and it was because of Murdoch Square property with some ingress egress. I think to the rear of the property. I believe the applicant subsequently submitted a site plan addressing that issue. But other than that, that was it. Everybody else was in full support.
[2:10:29] And it came down for me, and I think to the members, which one was most likely to be funded?
[2:10:38] And I asked professional staff, I asked Mrs. Turner, what was your professional opinion, and she stated it today,
[2:10:44] that Murdoch Square is the most likely to be funded.
[2:10:48] And our bold goal is to get affordable housing into the marketplace.
[2:10:53] And so we supported the one most likely to succeed.
[2:10:58] So that was a little bit of background on the discussions that we had as an A-hack.
[2:11:02] Again, both applicants were there.
[2:11:04] Had a chance to present and engage with our group and answer questions.
[2:11:09] So any other comments on this item?
[2:11:12] We'll need a motion.
[2:11:14] There's three parts to this.
[2:11:16] I will note in the packet provided for you.
[2:11:20] I was asked to prepare except minutes from that dialogue at the AHAC meeting.
[2:11:24] Those are there.
[2:11:25] And attached to that is the head-to-head comparison provided by Housing Trust Group
[2:11:30] at that time on June 24th to the AHAC.
[2:11:34] After that, Florida Housing amended their RFA slightly, and it shifted some things that
[2:11:43] increased their competitiveness, and they provided a supplemental and updated head-to-head
[2:11:49] comparison from their perspective about their competitiveness.
[2:11:53] That was provided based on guidance from administration in the county attorney and commission.
[2:11:59] To you as well for your review and so that the public would have access to that as well.
[2:12:04] So those two items are attached to your agenda so that you can see from housing trust groups
[2:12:08] perspective about their competitiveness at the state RFA.
[2:12:13] I think you stated in the presentation the biggest issue I think we had is we had two great projects.
[2:12:18] That's the problem.
[2:12:19] It's an embarrassment of riches.
[2:12:21] I don't want to carry like to say.
[2:12:23] I had Mr. Commissioner Dirty, but Mr. David's in the queue.
[2:12:25] Would you like to hear from legal first?
[2:12:27] Absolutely.
[2:12:27] OK.
[2:12:28] Mr. David, I'm just like to ask Linda to come up.
[2:12:31] There was a part of that motion.
[2:12:34] Can you just describe the issue with the loan terms to make sure
[2:12:37] work the board's clear on what that issue is?
[2:12:40] Good.
[2:12:40] Is there morning, too?
[2:12:42] Good morning, Commissioner.
[2:12:43] There's going to prove it for the record.
[2:12:45] My question is part of the request was for you guys
[2:12:48] to make a motion to approve the developer
[2:12:51] and to issue a loan, provide it, they receive their award
[2:12:54] from the RFA, contingent upon the developer's loan terms.
[2:12:59] And I want to make sure we flesh out if we know
[2:13:02] what those loan terms are, so that I will know what that is.
[2:13:05] When I get ready to draft these documents, that's important.
[2:13:08] So we don't have to come back to you for a clarification.
[2:13:11] Do you want the applicant to come up and speak to the loan?
[2:13:14] I think it's important for the board to understand
[2:13:16] what those provisional loan terms would be,
[2:13:20] so that they are drafted in the document.
[2:13:21] I mean, the loan terms from the county to the developer.
[2:13:24] From the county to the developer, Craig.
[2:13:33] Okay.
[2:13:33] Commissioner Dorty.
[2:13:34] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[2:13:36] Well, I agree.
[2:13:37] I've had the opportunity to discuss both projects,
[2:13:41] both applicants, they're both excellent.
[2:13:44] I agree with that comment.
[2:13:47] My struggle right now is with Murdoch Square,
[2:13:50] And I understand why the committee made their recommendation for the highly probable that they would score better.
[2:13:59] But, you know, my concern is we just had a presentation on the need for industrial land in Australia County.
[2:14:06] This is on four acres of industrial zone property. Small, small parcel.
[2:14:13] The other issue I've got is, I think it's 88 units on four acres.
[2:14:18] That's 22 units per acre. I saw the conceptual site plan. It was absolutely no area for stormwater management.
[2:14:26] Now, probably I've, I've, I've vaulted put under parking on, on, on Raymond James stating for the buck and heirs the target across the street.
[2:14:34] I vaulted underneath the parking lots because they didn't have an over real estate to put it open stormwater.
[2:14:39] So it can be done, but it seems to fly in the face of affordable housing. That's not true.
[2:14:44] It's not inexpensive when we put that one, but it's and I saw access issues.
[2:14:50] I do not want to see a driveway on Veterans Boulevard, you know, I think coming out on
[2:14:56] Kendall Worth makes sense.
[2:14:57] So I have more site plan issues with that project.
[2:15:00] And it's only conceptual with this point. I understand that. But I do have some concerns over that converting that industrial property when we just got a presentation that we're grossly short on industrial land. That's all. I just want to get that out.
[2:15:14] Thank you.
[2:15:16] Any other comments on the application? Mr. Trekshire.
[2:15:18] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[2:15:20] I had some concerns on veterans, but when they added the rear entrance to it, you know, that to me made a lot of sense.
[2:15:27] I think you need to have a flow front and back on it for access, emergency access.
[2:15:33] You don't want to have to send fire trucks all the way around the back of the kind of work
[2:15:37] to come in to a facility like that.
[2:15:39] So I think they have access and two directions for public safety perspective, I think it's good.
[2:15:46] The storm water could be an issue, I looked at that too, and I was worried about buffers.
[2:15:51] And they're willing to address buffers with the industrial next door.
[2:15:55] our JBR is there, I guess, right? So that was a concern,
[2:16:01] we need the housing guys, and we know
[2:16:04] we've been short for many, many years, and yes, I wish we could have both of them. But I think we
[2:16:10] can have both of them. But I think we have to go with the one that has the best possible chance of being
[2:16:17] funded first, just like the AAC said.
[2:16:20] And so I've make the motion that we approve Murdoch Square,
[2:16:27] has requested, I got to switch my screens, sorry,
[2:16:31] part A-B-N-C, part A-B-N-C, and we need to add
[2:16:35] the clarification of the long terms to this note motion.
[2:16:39] I'll second that for discussion.
[2:16:41] Commissioner David, you're having time.
[2:16:53] I think there are some loan terms in this overview here. I think those are the basic loan terms.
[2:17:00] So I think what I would recommend Mr. Chair is that the final loan documents be drafted
[2:17:06] to the county attorney's review for sufficiency and we'll take the rest of it from there.
[2:17:12] I think that'll that should work out and we'll follow what we have done in the past.
[2:17:16] So, yeah.
[2:17:17] But I think the basic terms are there.
[2:17:19] Okay, but they're obviously it's an agreement so there'll be a lot of other things in there.
[2:17:24] So we'll make a draft if we can't come to a conclusion or a reasonable understanding
[2:17:29] with the applicant then we will come back to the board.
[2:17:32] Okay.
[2:17:32] Thank you.
[2:17:33] I have really no objection to the motion.
[2:17:37] Again, great project.
[2:17:38] I guess if it's a right in right out off of veterans, no meeting and openings, that makes sense.
[2:17:44] Obviously, he needs the back door for safety.
[2:17:48] Probably have a decil lane too.
[2:17:50] All that stuff can get worked out.
[2:17:52] I think the applicant has heard the concerns.
[2:17:56] And I wouldn't have any objection to actually, that's a lot of units on that for acres.
[2:18:00] You know, and maybe it's other architectural and engineering solutions that could make that a more affordable, but anyways, that's my concern.
[2:18:10] Well, I think we approved 600 units for the Murdoch for the track, what was the Bachmann track?
[2:18:16] Yeah, but we talked about hundreds of units.
[2:18:19] We got some real estate to work with there, and they'll vertical.
[2:18:23] I don't know about access.
[2:18:24] Yeah, totally get it.
[2:18:25] Yeah, no, I have no objection to the motion, so.
[2:18:28] So is there any further discussion?
[2:18:30] Is there any opposition to the motion that passes unanimously?
[2:18:34] We're going to move on to item number S4, Port Charlotte Beach, P-Schedule.
[2:18:40] Mr. Scott, you're recognized to present sir.
[2:18:46] And again, on that last item, I really do want to think the applicants.
[2:18:51] I tell you, it wasn't contentious, but they were supporting their position at that A-hack meeting.
[2:18:59] And it was great in a way to hear that they want to be here in Charlotte County, partner with us in any way possible to provide affordable housing.
[2:19:07] I encourage you to keep coming back.
[2:19:09] We supported phase one.
[2:19:11] Unfortunately, this time for phase two, it wasn't there, but we're here to support affordable housing.
[2:19:16] Thank you for thinking about Charlotte County.
[2:19:18] Thank you for that.
[2:19:20] Very, very, very competitive.
[2:19:21] Very competitive.
[2:19:22] And the applicants know that.
[2:19:23] I think they both recognize very competitive.
[2:19:27] Thank you.
[2:19:29] All right, Mr. Scott, thank you very much.
[2:19:31] Good morning, Tommy Scott, can you serve us the director?
[2:19:34] I wanted to bring forward that actual requested motion
[2:19:37] is going to be a resolution of our fee schedule
[2:19:40] updating, specifically on Port Charlotte Beach.
[2:19:42] But I wanted to take the opportunity to kind of go through a presentation.
[2:19:45] I'm just to kind of walk you through kind of the research
[2:19:47] that we had done, the benchmarking comparisons,
[2:19:50] because this is a slight change of how we
[2:19:52] have done our normal rental rates.
[2:19:56] So this will kind of just walk through.
[2:19:57] I'll give a little bit of brief history, current fees.
[2:20:00] Schedule, some of the benchmarking we've done and then we'll get, we did and then we'll get to the proposed
[2:20:03] fee schedule for consideration. So again, obviously, you know, some of this history, but the facility
[2:20:08] came out of the ground and back in the 70s to make event space, restrooms in a public pool.
[2:20:14] It's been renovated several times through the years, including some recovery efforts after
[2:20:18] Hurricane Charlie. Most recently, back in 1819, we did the parking lot renovations for a drainage.
[2:20:25] I'm in the Sailing Center, which was a 1% local sales tax project.
[2:20:31] There we go.
[2:20:31] So some pictures of what the building used to look like, so this is how it was, and it's like kind of open state, an aerial of what it looked like.
[2:20:42] You can see the large outdoor deck, which was a great place for weddings and other events to happen.
[2:20:48] We did a multitude of different kinds of events, whether they were county directed or mostly user directed event rental type spaces, but heavily used by our community for many many years.
[2:21:01] Then we fast forward to some of these pictures that happened through Hurricane Saline and Milton.
[2:21:07] But both facilities have sustained damage for the multitude of hurricanes that we've experienced over the last five years.
[2:21:14] So this kind of gives you this is the rendering of what the new Port Charlotte Beach Recreation Center will look like.
[2:21:20] The right was a recent aerial that was provided to us by the contractor.
[2:21:25] But as you can see, it is coming out of the ground and for those of you who haven't been there in a while.
[2:21:29] The siding is complete. They're working to finish up the roofing and the MEP is getting near completion as well.
[2:21:37] So they are moving along. Their substantial completion date is still Christmas Eve December 24th of this year.
[2:21:45] Then we'll move into the spring of next year as we outfit the building for operation.
[2:21:49] Which is really the main reason that we want to have this conversation is we need to be ready to start renting the facility.
[2:21:54] people are already been asking. So establishing these rental rates is why we're bringing this
[2:21:59] forward now before we go into the August break so that way we can have some rates ready to go.
[2:22:05] So our current fee schedule for indoor space is really geared towards square footage by hour,
[2:22:11] right? And it is pretty much universally applied throughout all of the facilities underneath community
[2:22:16] services purview. It really doesn't have any real guidance towards a structure that might be on
[2:22:23] waterfront that is more event space. It's just if you want to rent it is based upon square footage
[2:22:27] in by-hour.
[2:22:30] So we went and through the exercise of doing the regional comparison about
[2:22:36] Sarasota, Emily and Charlotte County event facilities to really try and get a benchmark of what
[2:22:41] is in the market in our competitors and what they're doing. Because again, this is an event space and
[2:22:48] it will draw in we've already had people who are inquiring about rentals for it.
[2:22:53] So we looked at a myriad and it runs the gamut, right, size, price, how they break it down for additional costs because most of them not only are you paying a rental cost, but then you're charged for every chair, every table, every pen, you want to borrow everything as well.
[2:23:13] So we really looked at all of those to really kind of get us to the nexus of where we were at in our proposed rental rates.
[2:23:20] But generally speaking, there's three four rental spaces at the new building that's coming out of the ground.
[2:23:27] There is a joint space that can be divided in half. There's a large space and then there's a smaller conference meeting room space.
[2:23:33] So when we looked at this small and the small meeting room categories for the benchmarks were somewhere between 70 to 250 an hour.
[2:23:41] So, we're between 300 to 600 to day, right?
[2:23:45] The event spaces, which are the bigger ones, and again, they vary in size, even, and I have
[2:23:50] another slide that we also looked at the event center here down on the harbor, specifically.
[2:23:56] Those are varying as well, but anywhere between 5,000 and 2,000 per day, most other facilities
[2:24:03] are charging you again for all of those extra things, tables, chairs, all of that kind of stuff.
[2:24:08] So we really tried to stay kind of in the middle and around most of those things, but with a new concept for our rentals that I'll talk about here in a second.
[2:24:16] I thought I heard you say 5,500 to 2,000.
[2:24:22] The numbers just rolled together for you, but 5200 to 2,000 on that event space per day.
[2:24:27] Sorry about that.
[2:24:29] So the event center, this is kind of my soft launch into how dynamic pricing work.
[2:24:35] So the event center has as part of their fee schedule that we bring to the board, they have
[2:24:39] a dynamic pricing, not for profit, obviously a commercial which we have as well, but they
[2:24:45] also have a model for in-season and out-of-season, right?
[2:24:50] So when they can meet demand, the price goes up for that as well.
[2:24:53] But here are their prices that they have, again, the range on the halls, like between
[2:24:58] 1995 and a thousand forty
[2:25:00] That really is where they start getting into some of their dynamic pricing of in-season and out-of-season.
[2:25:06] So, for ours, we came in with the proposal of, again, the large, which is the room A, because you the square footage,
[2:25:12] we're looking at basically cat one, is the non-profit cat two is the for-profit rate.
[2:25:18] That is just continuing how we have it for all of our other facilities. We're looking at doing a day, a week, day rate, which is Monday through Thursday, and then a week in rate, which is Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
[2:25:28] Those are peak times, that's the peak use when people want to rent the facilities.
[2:25:32] So we're proposing a shift differential in that for the dynamic pricing.
[2:25:37] The other change that I will point out is also going from an hourly rate to a day rate.
[2:25:42] It is difficult to be able to in a facility like this, and we just don't see it.
[2:25:47] Multiple events going on in the same space that we're turning in a day.
[2:25:51] People are renting it and it's for the day, and so we just went to that pricing.
[2:25:54] Instead of doing it by hour, it makes it easier.
[2:25:56] Now, again, we can do multiple events in multiple spaces, but we're just not turning the room.
[2:26:01] So we can have an event going on in the large room.
[2:26:03] We could have two different events going on in the split rooms.
[2:26:07] It's just not taking the large room and doing it two or three times a day.
[2:26:10] Just for setup and what events use, it just doesn't work like that.
[2:26:14] So we went to a day rate.
[2:26:16] As I mentioned, all of our in-house equipment is all included in that pricing, which is a nice change.
[2:26:23] I think that we have as well.
[2:26:24] The other thing I'll point out is we did build in as you've seen the designs and if you remember on Port Charlotte Beach a catering kitchen
[2:26:31] Which we think is an amazing amenity. We had a kitchen in the old building. It had a it had a commercial hood on it, but it
[2:26:38] It wasn't great. This is a full
[2:26:40] On cooking catering kitchen. What sets us apart from other people is we do not have a catering contract
[2:26:46] So even at the event center they have in-house food and beverage services
[2:26:50] So you have to utilize their service.
[2:26:52] Most other event spaces throughout the regions,
[2:26:54] if the same model, you can rent the space,
[2:26:57] but then you also have to use our facilities.
[2:27:00] Most hotels that do events, it's a very same model.
[2:27:03] Ars is we have a space.
[2:27:04] If you want to use it, you can cook and bring from home.
[2:27:06] You can hire your own, you can do whatever you want.
[2:27:09] There's a rate to use the space,
[2:27:11] but we're not dictating you have to use ours.
[2:27:14] That reduces cost for event users
[2:27:16] and it provides flexibility if they just want to cook
[2:27:19] themselves are bringing from home. We're not limiting that factor, but that is a significant
[2:27:23] difference between us and pretty much most other event rental spaces that are out there.
[2:27:28] We have proposed these through the Parks Recreation Advisory Board, and they had provided their
[2:27:35] unanimous support as a recommendation to this board for this fee schedule that you see before you.
[2:27:42] This just kind of gives you some comparisons of where we were. Again, it's not actual apples and
[2:27:48] which is just because of it's a per square footage per hour, but this will kind of give you
[2:27:54] ranges. So we're in the range of where we were before, where we are a little bit higher than
[2:27:59] we were before, especially when we start adding on that dynamic pricing for the weekends. But again,
[2:28:03] I think you asked us to build a top-notch event facility, which we have done. We have already
[2:28:08] have people that are waiting on the decision on the rental rate, so they can start booking out
[2:28:13] events. So we feel we're pretty, these proposals proposed fees are within the range and the
[2:28:21] market and provide a great opportunity for the community. So with that, I'll all stand for
[2:28:26] any questions you all might have about our proposed fees schedule.
[2:28:29] That's right.
[2:28:30] There's nobody in the queue, so I'll jump in real quick.
[2:28:34] And neighborhood watch out there, they have meetings out there. I think they used to meet in
[2:28:38] the old facility from time to time, and I think they used to the pavilions as well.
[2:28:42] They have used both. Yes, sir. Yeah, they're using pavilions right now. Obviously, but they may want to get back into the building
[2:28:49] It's a small group. What did they pay?
[2:28:51] Based on this schedule? What would they have been charged before it was demolished the in the old facility for the space they used?
[2:28:58] I'm not sure what room size that would be so
[2:29:01] I have the old room size and what I'm wondering which room size would they fall into today?
[2:29:06] So the old rooms the smaller which is the one that was kind of out closest to where the the out door
[2:29:12] deck was, was about 975 square feet. So they would have paid the non-profit rate, which
[2:29:19] was $200 a day if you did it by hours. So in looking at this, excuse me, is about $25 an
[2:29:26] hour, is what they were paying before. So that came out to about $200 a day. So what did they
[2:29:33] pay before for them? I don't have their exact rental rates, what they paid before.
[2:29:41] That's
[2:29:43] I'm just trying to figure out, could you know, those small groups, it's important, you know, historically they met there, and I don't know for pricing them out with this schedule. That's why I'm trying to compare for the size room that they would have used back in the day and then what room would they use now if they asked you to reserve a room for me.
[2:30:00] So honestly, if it was my comparison for them, would probably be the conference room, right?
[2:30:04] Which on this is in the middle of 336 square feet, right? So there's the large event space, the, the, the, the, uh,
[2:30:11] Divideable room event space and then we built in this conference room space to allow kind of those smaller groups.
[2:30:17] So probably that and or if they needed to to maybe move to one of the Divideable spaces, which is the B slash C spaces, which gets you up into that 800 square foot space.
[2:30:26] Okay, so room D conference room $150 a day correct so if they needed it just for like a two-hour meeting
[2:30:33] They pay the one 50 day. Okay, and before did they pay by the hour they paid by the hour so it would have been
[2:30:41] 25 bucks an hour correct. Okay, so
[2:30:45] Theoretically if they needed the room for two-hour meeting they would have paid 50 before now it's about a hundred and fifty
[2:30:51] Okay, just I have a little an issue with affordability
[2:30:55] for that on that and being at the facility watching it go up we have
[2:31:01] usable space now because we've raised the facility thousands of square feet
[2:31:05] underneath. How is that going to be handled if somebody wanted to use that
[2:31:09] and maybe meet there. How's the public going to have access because they're
[2:31:13] finishing the ceiling there and they're putting in lighting. So what is that
[2:31:16] going to be useful? So we haven't programmed that as event space but to your
[2:31:21] point, it is usable space, so we haven't gotten that far down into it. Again, we rent
[2:31:27] pavilions, so people can use that. I'm sure as it comes out of the ground and we see
[2:31:31] what that usage looks like, whether it is events that want an outdoor space that there
[2:31:36] is the outdoor deck on the building, the current building, right? Could they want some overflow
[2:31:42] that's downstairs? Absolutely. We haven't gotten to that and figure it out exactly what
[2:31:47] that looks like. We don't know what that demand will be for underneath. But to your point,
[2:31:50] they're absolutely a space underneath there that can be used for just general public to
[2:31:54] be able to be out of the sun, but we need near the water, how it folds into event rentable
[2:31:59] space.
[2:32:00] I don't have an answer for that yet.
[2:32:01] We want to kind of really see how the demand looks.
[2:32:03] Yeah, I think that's going to be really important that we start game planning because it's
[2:32:07] thousands of square feet of usable space.
[2:32:11] I think it's got at least a 10 foot ceiling or 9 foot ceiling when they put the finishing
[2:32:17] And you've got views of the water and you're fully protected from the elements underneath
[2:32:21] where there's a picnic tables under there for people to meet.
[2:32:25] I don't know if that's going to, you're going to have some type of decorative aluminum fence
[2:32:28] to stop people from sleeping there overnight, things like that.
[2:32:31] But we're going to have to do a dress because it is a lot of space, a lot of usable space.
[2:32:37] And we need to somehow fold that into this schedule of uses and who can use it
[2:32:44] Because that's not really being addressed here because on day one if we open what's it going to be?
[2:32:48] We're going to
[2:32:49] People just wander under there and walk around and hang out like ride your bicycle lean your bicycle up against the wall and
[2:32:55] You know take a a gander at the harbor
[2:32:58] So to address all that
[2:33:01] As a rentable space we want to really let demand drive how we're going to navigate that which is why it's not included here, right?
[2:33:08] We update our annual fee schedule in
[2:33:10] in England, that's why we call it in a free schedule.
[2:33:13] So we can address that every year we can bring back
[2:33:16] any potential changes and we do that, right?
[2:33:19] Well, we have till December, you know,
[2:33:21] if everything goes on schedule to maybe before December,
[2:33:25] I'd like staff to go back and take a look
[2:33:28] at that usable space and come up with some game planning.
[2:33:30] I don't want to wait till after we open.
[2:33:32] I think, again, if you haven't seen it,
[2:33:35] it is a lot of space.
[2:33:36] We need to figure it out now rather than later.
[2:33:39] And we can do that.
[2:33:40] But to your other question, if we are having an event going on, the
[2:33:44] general public has the ability to go underneath there, if it's not part of an
[2:33:48] event that is going on. Yes, that is one of the reasons we built it, so people
[2:33:51] could get out of the sun underneath there and be able to utilize that facility as
[2:33:57] well. So if it's not being used as part of an event that's rented, then
[2:34:00] absolutely, we want the public to be able to go and utilize that space as well.
[2:34:04] Mr. Constance and Dory, thank you, Mr. Chair, tell me why don't we have half
[2:34:09] rentals. Why don't we have the day broken up a little more? Because I mean, obviously, if
[2:34:15] I know that I'm going to have an event and I need the whole day or even two days, because
[2:34:19] I want to set up the day before, you know, that's fine. You can, but why not have fractions
[2:34:25] of the day? What's the problem? So, for us, when we went back and looked at our average
[2:34:31] uses, if you will, of people that are renting out, the majority of them are pushing beyond
[2:34:35] just a couple hours, right? We do have some meetings to commissioner to say let's point. There are
[2:34:40] there were meetings that were just a couple hours here and there. Traditionally we're renting out
[2:34:43] for longer than that and we went to this. We can slice this cake however you'd like. It just gets into the
[2:34:51] complexities of implementation. Absolutely. If you would like us to provide that, it just gets into
[2:34:58] How many ways do you want us to slice it?
[2:35:00] And then we'll build that for you. Well, I mean, I think for some of the smaller rooms, I think, you know, we want to slice it into a brownie tray.
[2:35:07] I mean, I think we need to have a situation where, you know, and we got to get technology. So, I need, I don't need people there. I don't want you using your staff. I want people to go online, be able to reserve a room for a certain amount of time. They get a QR code. They go over. They pop it onto the scanner, the door, the door, unlocks, and they use their room.
[2:35:29] We need to have hands-free, and this is the technology that should be built into this place and I'm sure that's not what's happening, but we need to do that because you're not getting any more FTEs.
[2:35:41] You need to use AI and you need to use technology to do a lot of what the functions are.
[2:35:46] The traditionally you need to get somebody down there, open the doors and do all that stuff.
[2:35:50] No, we don't need that anymore.
[2:35:51] We need to have technology infiltrating this facility so that people are not part of the equation until it's custodial or it's, you know, things that have to get done manually.
[2:36:03] The other part of this is that, and I agree with the chairman, I think that's space underneath, you know, you do rent out pavilions, but you don't have to rent the pavilion.
[2:36:14] You can come and show up, and if nobody else has rented that facility at Harbor Heights or any of your other parks, they just start using it.
[2:36:22] Yes.
[2:36:22] And I think that's exactly what we have to allow for it to speech complex.
[2:36:26] The whole purpose of having it lifted up was, and by the way, those benches and whatever you're going to put down there, they're going to be flooded away.
[2:36:33] Look forward to another flooding event.
[2:36:35] So don't spend a bazillion dollars on those benches, because that's the stuff that unless you can get there two days before and pull it all out,
[2:36:43] hoping that you're going to save it or move it up stairs. I mean you better have your contingency plans ready
[2:36:49] Because but that space is for folks to get out of the sun that that is a great purpose. Yes, the other question that I have for you is
[2:36:56] Those elevators are they piston driven or is there an elevator box on motor on top that's pulling
[2:37:02] No, they're piston driven. I believe okay, so what have we programmed in we did a lot of resiliency for the swimming pool
[2:37:09] What have we put what have we got in place for
[2:37:11] locking down, you know, panels over the openings of the elevators.
[2:37:18] So when the six are eight feet of water show up, like they did at Station 10,
[2:37:22] which we still haven't fixed at a time island, all of these elevators need to have
[2:37:27] those panels ready to install, so we can brace for the water elevation and then when it goes away,
[2:37:33] you pull the panels, you throw the power and bam, you have an elevator. As opposed to,
[2:37:38] You'll be offline for three or four months until all of that elevator stuff gets taken care of.
[2:37:44] So, where are we with that?
[2:37:45] That's a good question off to find out.
[2:37:46] Thank you.
[2:37:47] Thank you, sir.
[2:37:47] Thank you.
[2:37:48] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[2:37:50] Yes.
[2:37:50] As far as the per day numbers, I'm good.
[2:37:53] Okay, just that.
[2:37:54] But I would say the larger space is it might make sense to break that up in half days too.
[2:37:59] Okay.
[2:37:59] You have a half day rate for the larger spaces.
[2:38:02] The smaller ones, the meeting suites in the conference room, quite honestly, you're going
[2:38:06] to get hourly people there.
[2:38:08] So I think we do need that broken down to a per hour as well.
[2:38:12] But you have the full day numbers, Tommy.
[2:38:15] Look, look, Sanchez.
[2:38:16] I mean, I'm good with them.
[2:38:17] But I do think we do.
[2:38:18] And then, of course, under the comments, underneath the building,
[2:38:21] bring that back eventually.
[2:38:23] But so you can comment to people while we're on break in August.
[2:38:28] I think this schedule is fine, except to break it up in the half days
[2:38:33] for the blood spaces and hourly on those two BC and D.
[2:38:37] That's all.
[2:38:38] Yeah.
[2:38:38] I agree with those comments.
[2:38:39] I'm going to show you actually right next there.
[2:38:41] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[2:38:43] I don't need you to tell you how to do your job, tell me about one point out a few things
[2:38:46] to make sure everybody understands when we go to half days, there's going to be turning
[2:38:49] over time.
[2:38:50] They're going to have to clean the room, prep it for the whoever's coming in next.
[2:38:53] So you're going to have to design what that half day actually looks like now because is
[2:38:57] going to start at nine and end at 1130 and then the next person can't come into a one
[2:39:01] clock or you know what kind of flexibility can you have with that.
[2:39:04] The other thing is, is what the bigger rooms, I think it depends on the number of people and what the event is,
[2:39:12] is to whether or not you're going to be able to do two events in a day on some of these bigger rooms.
[2:39:17] We're going to have to provide you some flexibility, but we can provide half day rates.
[2:39:21] The half day rate should be more than half of the full day rate.
[2:39:24] It's got to be more, but to help cover for the turnover and all that kind of stuff.
[2:39:28] Two point which is why we went to the full day.
[2:39:30] I understand that, but I understand where the board sounds like they want to go.
[2:39:34] I don't necessarily agree or disagree. I just know that logistically it's going to be an issue and that you may have to come back to us and say look, this is a work
[2:39:42] Well, and again, if the direction of the board is to provide a half day in a full day, and we can only rent it for a half day and then it has to sit vacant because we didn't have the ability to flip it and find another user
[2:39:53] Then we'll just get the half day rate. We won't get a full day rate, but we can implement anything that you
[2:40:01] I just want to understand that was the rationale specifically why we went to the larger full day. But yeah, we can do it. It will potentially create a position where we're only renting half days, right, instead of potentially getting a full day.
[2:40:15] That's what it needs to be. We need to have a higher number than what we would think for half a day because we're going to lose efficiencies and we're going to lose the ability for full day in certain situations.
[2:40:25] Yeah, it might have to be like a half a day premium or something like that. Yeah, Commissioner Constance and Deutsche.
[2:40:29] Yeah, I agree, you know, I think right. If you cut it in half, it's not a half the amount of money. There's going to be an additional, you know,
[2:40:35] kicker that you've got to work in because of turning it over.
[2:40:39] And then there probably should be a minimum per hour. Don't just divide by eight or whatever the number is for the smaller, you know,
[2:40:45] rooms, B.C. meetings, we teach in a smaller amount of the room D conference, you know, you
[2:40:50] may have to, it may have to still be $50 an hour or something. I don't know what you're,
[2:40:55] you've got to charge what it's costing you. So I, you know, I get and somebody may look and go
[2:40:59] off it's $50 an hour, I guess I'll run it for the whole day. But give them the opportunity
[2:41:03] to apply for at least a fraction and, you know, everybody would be happy with that.
[2:41:09] Thank you.
[2:41:09] Thank you, Mr. George, you recognized.
[2:41:11] Define a day for us.
[2:41:15] Our intention is we will do a day.
[2:41:18] So you can have it from the sun up to the sun down.
[2:41:21] If that's what you want, you can go into the evening.
[2:41:23] There's one hour's in a day.
[2:41:25] We're willing to have any guidelines on it.
[2:41:27] Specifically, if someone wants to have a breakfast,
[2:41:30] they can get in there at 6am.
[2:41:34] No, no.
[2:41:34] To that point, yes.
[2:41:35] So to that, yes, we have the sailing club.
[2:41:37] right they do their we got have done their reggae their sailing we're got
[2:41:40] other in the past they started early right and they did breakfast is part of
[2:41:44] their function we have people that are doing weddings until the middle of the
[2:41:47] night right so we want to be as flexible as we can we really the again we we can
[2:41:53] slice up the rates however we want but yeah we are want to be as amenable as
[2:41:57] accommodating to event producers on whatever they need it to be and if they want
[2:42:01] early great if they want late great then I think you're gonna have to define your
[2:42:07] portions of a day by hours because you're going to have some groups like, you know, like the breakfast coming this week.
[2:42:14] You know, they probably will want to have if the breakfast is going to be 7, 7, 30, they're going to want to have access at 6 am.
[2:42:21] If someone's having a new year's Eve party, they're going to want to go to 1 o'clock in the morning.
[2:42:26] So I think you're going to need some defined guidelines in terms of an hour and then break it up into segments.
[2:42:33] because if someone wants to have a breakfast, this shouldn't be any problem.
[2:42:38] Someone's going to have an afternoon meeting because the breakfast people will be out of there by 10-11 o'clock.
[2:42:43] You could have it ready for something at 12-1 o'clock.
[2:42:47] And if there's an afternoon meeting there, and someone wanted to have a dinner there, that could also work.
[2:42:53] So I think my sense is to take an hour span of hours and then break it into segments.
[2:43:02] And then, you know, you can rent by that.
[2:43:05] Now, you have to decide, because I don't know what to recommend,
[2:43:10] is an evening event worth more per hour than a breakfast event.
[2:43:14] I don't know the answer to that.
[2:43:16] But I think you're going to want some equity in terms of the available hours.
[2:43:20] But I'm sure you're going to have people that are going to want to get it in there at 6am.
[2:43:25] And, you know, then we have some other things to do with based on the type of an event.
[2:43:29] How late are you going to let them go? Would you let them go to one or two o'clock on the morning for a wedding?
[2:43:37] Let's say. So I think you've got a little bit more depth again in because you're going to have some unique situations come up.
[2:43:46] So thank you for your comments. I appreciate that.
[2:43:48] Just Chairman Fanny.
[2:43:50] These are our professional recommendations based upon the review of
[2:43:53] of comparables in a three-county area.
[2:43:57] If you don't think this is going to work
[2:43:58] about well for the community, we can just stick with
[2:44:00] an hourly rate that we're charging and just square them up.
[2:44:05] We can make this work.
[2:44:06] I don't want you to think that this is like we're trying to
[2:44:08] shoehorn this in when you ask about like morning or not.
[2:44:11] This is why there is a proposed one rate for the day
[2:44:14] to not make it as complicated as it can be.
[2:44:18] When you start adding different layers into it,
[2:44:20] it adds complexities to the users.
[2:44:22] how much they are trying to prepare their budgeting for.
[2:44:27] Oh, if I only do four hours compared to this is the simplistic,
[2:44:32] most professional way of doing it.
[2:44:34] This is the way most event facilities produce their rate schedule is on this.
[2:44:38] It's either on a day rate, on an hourly basis.
[2:44:40] We are recommending a day for the ease of everyone,
[2:44:42] but an hourly can be just as easy.
[2:44:45] I mean, if you would like us to stick hourly,
[2:44:47] 100% can do that.
[2:44:48] That's not that difficult for us to do.
[2:44:50] I think you're going to have to have an open mind on it and the reason why is there are certain groups that I'm aware of that at least a half a dozen that have breakfast.
[2:45:00] Then I kind of want to be there in the afternoon. And if you could have someone to do a breakfast, and they're out of there, a ten or eleven, or ten, thirty or eleven, you might be able to have a lunch, and over is in at the same day. And if this is going to be some type of profit center to some degree that it's going to help pay back the cost of the operation, it might be a little bit more staff time. But if you could rent it out for breakfast lunch and supper to three different groups, it's going to financially,
[2:45:30] be a great event of fit to your operation, but obviously requires some staff in clean up time.
[2:45:36] But I think you're going to have to be flexible because if I was running an evening dinner
[2:45:41] or a breakfast in the morning, I really wouldn't want to have to pay for the whole thing all day.
[2:45:45] If I know I'm going to be out of the oven three hours. So I think you might want to take a
[2:45:50] deeper dive and take another look at those possibilities, particularly if you could have two
[2:45:56] three events in a day and make them work and have the staff and make them work that you
[2:46:02] come out of a few bucks I have which I think is part of the goal.
[2:46:07] Thank you sir.
[2:46:08] Commissioner Constance.
[2:46:09] Thank you.
[2:46:10] It's time he's your intention for this facility to be open 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
[2:46:14] That's what the renters need and we're willing to meet whatever the community wants us to do.
[2:46:19] Okay, then I guess you just need to define is a day six a.m. to six a.m. or midnight to midnight.
[2:46:26] You know, what what is what is the day and don't answer that now look back at the programming to make it fit.
[2:46:33] I, you know, I would assume nobody's really going to be in there before six a.m. so maybe that's when the day starts.
[2:46:38] And late events that go past midnight aren't going to finish much past one or two.
[2:46:42] So, but I think that's part of the calculus that we need to understand is how are you, how is that being programmed to fit this?
[2:46:51] Okay.
[2:46:52] Just curious, but no, I don't have an issue.
[2:46:54] I think simplicity, because then you've got to have somebody sitting there and figuring this all out unless you want to leave it to an AI bot.
[2:47:01] Well, but to your point earlier of the customer to have the ability to kind of self-do it themselves,
[2:47:07] more layers makes it more difficult and cumbersome for a user to do that and navigate themselves as well.
[2:47:14] And so I'm trying to take as many feevers notes as possible because I've heard a lot of different feedback.
[2:47:22] I don't have a consensus on that.
[2:47:25] Okay, thank you.
[2:47:26] You still have the floor, but was everybody okay with the dynamic pricing?
[2:47:32] Just to put that out there.
[2:47:34] which was a Monday through Thursday, one rate,
[2:47:36] Friday's already Sunday, a different rate.
[2:47:39] That's we, yeah, I mean, I think.
[2:47:41] Yeah, I mean, I think.
[2:47:42] You still have the floor.
[2:47:43] I appreciate the research because this is based on factual stuff,
[2:47:47] not hey, we just pulled this out of the air.
[2:47:49] So that's important there with the basis that all makes sense.
[2:47:53] And I just think you've heard the comments.
[2:47:55] I don't know that I'm ready to vote on this.
[2:47:56] I'd like you to bring, we have time.
[2:47:58] You're like you're going to bring it back,
[2:48:00] but take the comments that have been made and let's try to make.
[2:48:03] But I understand the more complex it is, the more work it is for one or two of your staff
[2:48:10] to kind of keep this all figured out.
[2:48:13] And come back please with some technology options, because I think that's important.
[2:48:17] If there's a way to free up rooms with digital locks as opposed to, you gotta have somebody
[2:48:24] there unless somebody's there 24-7, but that's another story, that's three FTEs that
[2:48:30] have the man in the building.
[2:48:32] It definitely will take more than three F2E2 in the building, but we have not built, you're
[2:48:36] proposing into the model.
[2:48:39] So any of those upgrades or additions to the building are going to have to come as an
[2:48:44] additional technology package, so I don't know that I'll be able to bring that at the next
[2:48:48] time I bring back rates.
[2:48:50] Well, is anybody else bugging that?
[2:48:52] I guess find out if you're not really per se in the event world.
[2:48:56] Again, let's just use the event center as an example.
[2:48:58] When you rent a space at the event center, or you go to an event center, the staff there
[2:49:02] open the doors.
[2:49:03] They make sure that everything from custodial to security, to their doing F&B as well, a food
[2:49:09] and beverage.
[2:49:10] So they're doing all of those pieces, and then when you leave, they lock the door behind you.
[2:49:14] That is the service that's provided because these are event spaces.
[2:49:18] It's not a pavilion where you're just going to have a birthday party.
[2:49:21] You're going in to have a wedding for 500 people that is going to be catered and have a
[2:49:26] sit-down-plated event.
[2:49:27] right so it's a it's a little bit different of a model than some of the things that are
[2:49:31] doing it I mean we have if somebody wants to rent a park space or a pavilion you 100% can
[2:49:36] go online rent that space get your permit and never have to interact with any of our staff right
[2:49:41] but the difference between that and what we're providing at this event facility it's just light
[2:49:47] years apart I'd have to do a whole lot of research to figure out if any other event producing spaces
[2:49:51] doing what you're proposing. I just don't know any of that. So if you have this facility in
[2:49:56] in essence open 24 hours, they said it is weak. At minimum.
[2:50:00] You have to have three people, eight hour shifts for the entire week. Somebody, if one person is there, that's three FTEs, just to keep the building open.
[2:50:09] So let me just try to try and clarify that a little bit. We are willing to do I anticipate that we're going to run 24 hours a day, seven days a week, absolutely not.
[2:50:18] But to Commissioner Doge's point, do we have somebody who wants to do a breakfast, and do we have somebody who wants to event till two in the morning? There's a dynamic that goes there.
[2:50:25] We probably, and I know this is a fact, we don't get a lot of 2 AM rentals that are Monday,
[2:50:30] Tuesday, Wednesday, right?
[2:50:31] But that doesn't mean if somebody came in and wanted to do it, that we wouldn't be willing
[2:50:35] to.
[2:50:35] So I don't want you to think that we are preparing and staffing to work 24 hours a day,
[2:50:39] seven days a week, 365.
[2:50:41] We are just willing to work with our customers to meet them on whatever their needs and desires
[2:50:45] are.
[2:50:46] So we're not geared up to do that, but if an event came in and said we want to load in
[2:50:52] for to do a six AM breakfast to be out of it. We're willing to work with our customers very
[2:50:57] good. Thank you. Thank you. I put myself into cue. So, when you did your comparison to the
[2:51:02] other counties to find what a day was, was it limited to like eight hours, whether it was
[2:51:07] started, no matter what time it started, eight hours is considered a day. So, I did as one of the
[2:51:15] attachments attached to comparable benchmarking that we put in there. So, I'm just stalling
[2:51:19] one like go through and look at it. And did your comparables have half day rentals?
[2:51:26] I don't
[2:51:26] believe that I remember half day rentals? Okay. I do believe it's day they're days or some
[2:51:34] had hours. But here's something that had a four hour max so that way they could turn quicker.
[2:51:40] Okay. Because I assume you don't not reinventing the wheel here. All these other event spaces
[2:51:44] that were comparables must have come up against, you know, hourly half day, what's a day?
[2:51:52] And you had mentioned earlier, you have people waiting to lease up.
[2:51:55] Let's correct.
[2:51:55] And I don't want to belabor this thing much longer when we're losing out on rentals,
[2:52:02] getting booked up.
[2:52:02] But I also want to do it correctly.
[2:52:04] I appreciate the advisory board recommending this schedule.
[2:52:09] I don't necessarily disagree with this schedule.
[2:52:12] My only issue, my one big issue,
[2:52:14] is how do we handle the bottom, which you can come back later.
[2:52:17] That's fine on that.
[2:52:18] and the affordability to get to a half a day of somebody is literally meeting for two hours.
[2:52:24] I think you can sell them on a half a day. If that's, you know, what do you consider half a day?
[2:52:28] Well, of 24 hours is a day, then do they get it for 12 day hours? Is that a half a day?
[2:52:34] I see, that's the thing. Those are my only two issues right now.
[2:52:38] is getting to a being able to lease for less than a day
[2:52:44] and how we handle the bottom.
[2:52:46] But we do need to get this back before the board
[2:52:50] as soon as possible.
[2:52:51] So you can start renting up, because we're
[2:52:52] going to be losing out on rentals,
[2:52:55] because we don't have a schedule.
[2:52:57] So we don't have an approved schedule, that is correct.
[2:52:59] So it's hard to lease up unless you take the pause.
[2:53:04] It's pending a final schedule.
[2:53:06] Just to just to reserve. So the people that have been talking to us are unwilling to do that until they know what the rental rates are going to be because they don't want to put a deposit down and
[2:53:16] Work towards a wedding location that we're going to come back in September October and tell them that the rate is different even if
[2:53:22] If they know
[2:53:23] I've watched this or whatever that this is the range
[2:53:26] They that might be a change in excess for them that they've lost months of another venue when when is the soonest are they trying to get in in January?
[2:53:33] We are not looking to start looking in until probably March April is what we're looking at but we have been asked we've had people start asking us as far out as a year in advance
[2:53:44] Which is what we typically will look out as a year out. So this past March and April people seeing it come out of the ground
[2:53:50] wanted to know when they could start renting and we said we won't rent until we have board a proof rate
[2:53:55] Okay, so no one's looking to get in there in January February. We're not. Yeah, we're not there. Okay. Okay. That's good to know
[2:54:01] That's good to know, but I'm okay generally with this proposed fee schedule other than those things that I've already stated,
[2:54:06] Commissioner, you're actually recognized.
[2:54:08] Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to make a motion.
[2:54:10] I'm going to make a motion that we approve what's in front of us today, and we add modifications to it.
[2:54:14] So anybody who wants to do a day rental now, they can schedule and tie it in.
[2:54:19] And then we'll figure out the half day and the downstairs stuff at a future day.
[2:54:22] Beautiful idea.
[2:54:23] Second that.
[2:54:24] Uh, we'll do it.
[2:54:25] Yeah.
[2:54:25] So we have motion to second to accept the proposed fee schedule as outlined to come back with modifications at a later date.
[2:54:33] Is there any further discussion?
[2:54:35] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[2:54:38] Passes four to one with commission to do it in opposition.
[2:54:41] Thank you, Tommy.
[2:54:41] Thank you.
[2:54:42] All right.
[2:54:43] We're going to move on to item five.
[2:54:45] Approved the resolution and lifting the burn ban.
[2:54:49] It's our burn ban's are.
[2:54:50] to Chairman? I think we need to bring Chief Caro up. So he has an easy day in front of the board.
[2:55:00] So, so the burn bands are is here today. You're recognized chief to present the charge.
[2:55:05] Yeah. Let's see if we get it this time.
[2:55:06] Let's see if I can get this. Good.
[2:55:11] The chief wakes up every morning and rolls the dice.
[2:55:14] Burn band or no burn band. Burn band or no burn band or no burn band.
[2:55:17] All right. So, what's great about this is the, I'm sorry.
[2:55:20] Chief Mack Ward for the record.
[2:55:22] So, the great part about this is the numbers of keep coming down with all the ring that we have.
[2:55:26] So, we'll, I'll make this quick for you.
[2:55:28] You can obviously stop me at any time.
[2:55:30] currently the average was a red around 4441 at this day today the the KBDI value was actually
[2:55:37] 341 this morning so that's a good good number for us as opposed to what it was back then.
[2:55:42] What we heard last time or what Chief Car heard last time and I did on Facebook as I watched it
[2:55:49] was the you wanted more information so this breaks down the information a little bit better for you guys
[2:55:54] or for the board. So you can see how the numbers hold up. Currently we only have one that
[2:56:02] number is not 19 currently. It's only 3% in that 500 range and that's changed from the
[2:56:08] West County to more of an East County area. Then we talk about the affected people from
[2:56:15] drought, 146,000, almost 147,000, and then we talk about the 92%, 30, 31st dry as June and record
[2:56:25] for us, so we know it's been dry in June, we're getting our water back from all the rains currently,
[2:56:30] and then as you see, we're down about two inches from that. So keep going. You'll be fast.
[2:56:36] You're going, okay. All right. As you know, we had a dry dry June and moving into the July,
[2:56:43] we've gotten a lot of rain, not near as much as out west or up north, but we are getting the
[2:56:48] rain that we need. It's going to be hot, obviously. We're looking at that and then burn
[2:56:53] bands. All of the counties around us have lifted their burn bands. De Soda was the last one
[2:56:58] on the lift. There's back in two weeks ago in July 14th. The only county that's nearest us would
[2:57:05] be Hillsborough, which typically stays on a burn band the entire time. So we're looking for you
[2:57:11] to recent the burn ban third times the charm as I think so instead we could go current
[2:57:18] value is 341 today not for 15 so we would like any information on that.
[2:57:24] Thanks sir commissioner dorty although I've only had one at the right in my house in the last
[2:57:28] two weeks I move up for a full resolution second we have motion a second commission to extra
[2:57:33] that okay any further discussion any officers to the motion that passes unanimously the burn
[2:57:39] band is rescinded. Okay, we're moving on to item number six. Thank you chief. Yes. We're
[2:57:44] moving on to item number six. The animal, do you have anything, Hector? I was just going
[2:57:48] to speak on number the next. Okay. Animal welfare league. Item number six, Mr. Floor, as
[2:57:53] you recognize. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our speaker earlier, Tara from animal welfare
[2:58:00] league kind of touched on it. So I appreciate her comments. The item we did revise it,
[2:58:06] for the change memo added the amendment number one of the agreement.
[2:58:10] We felt it was best just to make sure we formalized the extension.
[2:58:13] That 80 of you all had offered up in our negotiations and discussions with them, so that's
[2:58:18] what that item is.
[2:58:19] Just to add though, we are shooting for a final agreement to you at our September 8th Board meeting.
[2:58:26] I believe we'll get there.
[2:58:28] I know our team just got some of their responses, so they're reviewing that as we speak.
[2:58:33] And it times out right, your other agenda item you adjusted our first budget public hearing will now be Monday, September 14th, that following Monday.
[2:58:43] So right now we've got just the current contract with animal welfare league.
[2:58:49] So any adjustment, I would not want to make going into that final budget public hearing.
[2:58:53] So again, bring it to you as our goal for September 8th. So we're going to appreciate the team and animal welfare league.
[2:58:59] and really the folks that have been doing obviously the heavy lifting on our and I want
[2:59:03] to defer some of that thanks in appreciation to Chief Macaroid and Division Manager Caitlin
[2:59:09] so they've got their work to finalize but that's it, September 8th, so what we're looking
[2:59:13] for.
[2:59:13] Thank you, Sarah.
[2:59:14] Do you have a motion to approve amendment?
[2:59:15] Yes sir.
[2:59:16] We have motion and second to approve the amendment.
[2:59:19] Is there any further discussion?
[2:59:20] Any officers?
[2:59:21] The motion.
[2:59:21] That passes unanimously.
[2:59:23] We're going to move on to item number 7, Charlotte County Sheriff's Office Funding Opportunity.
[2:59:28] Mr. Arthur, you're recognizing that afternoon as of right now.
[2:59:32] Rick Arthur, fiscal services.
[2:59:35] The sheriff has identified an additional funding opportunity, so we're just bringing a resolution
[2:59:39] authorizing the County Administrator to apply for this DOJ grant on behalf of the sheriff.
[2:59:44] Any questions for staff?
[2:59:46] Commissioner Dirty Reckonized.
[2:59:46] Move the resolution.
[2:59:48] We have motion, second.
[2:59:48] Move the resolution.
[2:59:49] Is there any further discussion?
[2:59:51] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[2:59:54] That passes unanimously.
[2:59:56] We're moving on to item number eight.
[2:59:58] set up public hearing to consider proving.
[3:00:00] And ordinance to prohibit oversized vehicles parking on the county right of way. Mr. Flores, did you have any comments
[3:00:06] on that, or are you going to present or is it just a set of day?
[3:00:13] I can speak to it. Okay. We have major issues in areas where we have tractor trailers and
[3:00:19] bigger units parking in the right ways where you can't see it around corners. It's a growing
[3:00:23] problem in Charlotte County and public works and legal put together the opportunity to bring
[3:00:28] to close, and I would move approval of, okay, we have motion second to approve the item.
[3:00:35] Is there any further discussion, Commissioner Constance?
[3:00:37] Yeah, I'm appreciative of this, and I agree with the moving forward.
[3:00:41] Also, there's a lot of trucks that are just parking on the street and unloading.
[3:00:46] And so I looked to the sheriff and Chief Deputy to keep doing a good job of citing those
[3:00:55] They just, you know, you've got small roads and you can't see past them and then you're all you have to go over a double yellow line
[3:01:02] It's absolutely illegal to be parking not just in the right away in the street
[3:01:06] And it's around a lot of our industrial facilities a lot of our healthcare facilities
[3:01:11] So we've got to make sure that we've got better enforcement and they they got to show up sort of toward the afternoon
[3:01:16] The trucks are there every single day. It's just got to stop and we got to hit them with big fines
[3:01:20] So thank you.
[3:01:21] Thank you.
[3:01:21] Don't disagree with that.
[3:01:22] Any further discussion?
[3:01:24] Any opposition to the motion?
[3:01:25] That passes unanimously.
[3:01:26] We're going to move on to T1, which is our third quarter budget adjustments, Mr.
[3:01:30] Arthur, you recognize the present?
[3:01:33] Good afternoon, Commissioners.
[3:01:35] We regard their fiscal services.
[3:01:37] As you know, fiscal services monitors the budget on ongoing basis throughout the fiscal year.
[3:01:42] And quarterly, we bring back any necessary adjustments to the board for approval and review.
[3:01:50] And so this is our third quarter budget adjustments for fiscal year 26.
[3:01:54] Any questions for staff?
[3:01:55] I'm going to open this item up to the public.
[3:01:57] Anybody wishing to speak on this item?
[3:01:58] Please come forward.
[3:01:59] You'll have five minutes.
[3:02:00] Anybody from the public wishing to speak on item T1, third quarter budget adjustments?
[3:02:05] Please come forward.
[3:02:05] You'll have five minutes.
[3:02:07] Mr. Chairman, I see him rising.
[3:02:09] Loves the close.
[3:02:09] Public input.
[3:02:10] So we have motion second.
[3:02:11] The close public input.
[3:02:12] Is there any further discussion?
[3:02:14] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[3:02:15] Public input is closed.
[3:02:17] Mr. Chairman, move the resolution.
[3:02:18] We have motion second.
[3:02:19] the move to resolution? Is there any further discussion? Is there any opposition to the motion?
[3:02:24] That passes unanimously. We're going to move on to item T3 conservation, Charlotte, renewal,
[3:02:29] resolution and referendum.
[3:02:40] Good afternoon, commissioners. Tina Powell, Park Sanctuary,
[3:02:43] sources manager. A few weeks back, I came and presented an update on conservation, Charlotte,
[3:02:48] as well as the proposed ballot language for the renewal. And this is our public hearing to
[3:02:54] approve the ballot language and the resolution that puts that on the ballot, the snow
[3:02:58] Any questions for staff? I'm going to open this up to the public for public comment. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on this item
[3:03:04] You will have five minutes, please go forward. State your name for the record
[3:03:08] Anybody wishing to speak on item T3 please come forward. You'll have five minutes. State your name for the record. Mr. Chairman
[3:03:13] Let's see no one rising moved to close public input
[3:03:16] So we have motion motion and a second the close public input is there any further discussion?
[3:03:20] Is there any officers into the motion?
[3:03:23] That passage unanimously public input is closed. Mr. Chairman move the resolution
[3:03:27] We have motion and second to move to resolution, is there any further discussion?
[3:03:31] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[3:03:33] That passes unanimously.
[3:03:35] Gentlemen, we've completed our morning agenda.
[3:03:38] We are in recess, recess, until one PM public input, any subject.
[3:03:44] Thank you.
[3:03:44] Take care.
[3:04:16] Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
[3:04:17] Welcome back to the Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners, regular and
[3:04:20] land use meeting for Tuesday, July 28th, 2026, left the record show, all commissioners
[3:04:25] are present.
[3:04:26] We have now arrived at our 1 p.m. public input any subject anybody wishing to address the board during
[3:04:32] this portion of the meeting must stay there named for the record remarks on any kind
[3:04:36] of related subject shall be limited to three minutes and shall be addressed to the commission
[3:04:40] as a body and not to individual members it will not be any discussion anybody to speak please
[3:04:45] come forward.
[3:04:45] Station A for the record.
[3:05:01] Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. Members of the Commission. My name's Philips Small Wood. I live at 24368, Treasurer Island, Boulevard, and Pirate Harbor. I'm here regarding a matter of importance to the taxpayers of Pirate Harbor.
[3:05:15] The county received permit from Florida Department of Environment and Protections in the U.S. Army Corps engineers some years ago to dredge the entrance channel to our community.
[3:05:25] That gerage project resulted in the less than one fifth of an acre of seagrass loss, despite
[3:05:32] the fact that DEP, Army Corps of Engineers, themselves referred to the seagrass loss as
[3:05:38] medical.
[3:05:39] They still required to count county at the expense of the taxpayers to mitigate the seagrass
[3:05:44] loss by planning and monitoring seagrass and two separate spots out in Charlotte Harbor
[3:05:49] for five years. After five years of monitoring, the county's contractor reported on a
[3:05:54] Seagrass mitigation in the report states that two of the three primary success criteria
[3:05:59] were explicit to have achieved. And a third criteria had been until the mitigation areas
[3:06:04] were destroyed by multiple hurricanes and successive drift algae attacks. However,
[3:06:10] DEP is now certain that the county must begin another attempt to grow Seagrass in the
[3:06:19] means that pirate harbor taxpayers will have to foot the bill.
[3:06:22] The pirate harbor waterways MSB U Advisory Board adopted as the other official position
[3:06:29] of paper that explains a great detail why the FDEP is wrong in its assessment that the
[3:06:34] project failed and provides multiple ways the project can be seen as a success.
[3:06:40] You have heard that DEP and system matter is closed, a simple matter of compliance, but
[3:06:45] The DEP itself failed to comply with its own regulations and writing the permit the way they
[3:06:51] did.
[3:06:52] And this failure is now being leveraged against the county to claim we must spend more money
[3:06:57] on a fraud purpose.
[3:06:59] Specifically, the county projects succeeded in several ways including but not limited to the fact
[3:07:04] that the buffer zones around the Dreds channel grew more than enough cigarettes to meet
[3:07:09] the project demands.
[3:07:10] DEP says that doesn't count, but it's own regulations at Florida Administrative Code 62-330.0104
[3:07:21] Part 3 at 10.3.1 says otherwise, and I at many of my neighbors believe the county should adhere to the position
[3:07:33] asserted by the MSBU Advisory Board, and we urge you to entertain a meeting between
[3:07:40] the advisory board chair and your sales to fully appreciate the accuracy of the position
[3:07:46] paper and to direct staff to cooperate better with the advisory board to say the county
[3:07:51] money by serving the legitimate right to consider the project complete.
[3:07:56] Our position is in the county's best entrance and we should be fully informed about it.
[3:08:01] Thank you.
[3:08:02] Thank you, sir.
[3:08:03] Anybody else wishing to speak please come forward, stage your name for the record.
[3:08:05] You have three minutes.
[3:08:29] But after noon commissioners, my name is Roy Eckler.
[3:08:32] I live in Babcock Ranch.
[3:08:34] I'm with the American Legion Post,
[3:08:35] Babcock Ranch, post-415.
[3:08:38] I'm here today to speak to you all about
[3:08:42] the 31st firehouse, old firehouse.
[3:08:46] As an American Legion member,
[3:08:48] we're brand new.
[3:08:49] We have not been able to start
[3:08:51] and enough money to get opposed.
[3:08:54] With that building sitting out there,
[3:08:55] sitting there for two years without being used, we thought we would come and ask if we could
[3:09:00] have it either with a lease or just take it over. To build out is our American Legion post.
[3:09:09] We asked this state to send it to Auburn and Vanessa Auburn if we could have some money to build it.
[3:09:18] It got as far as the governor's office of governor shot it down due to the fact he's
[3:09:23] make it as budget. So, I have talked to one commissioner here and he did a good job
[3:09:35] of trying to help us. Now, and I have called the Administrators Office, I love messages
[3:09:42] and I've never been returned any call. The other day when I was eating lunch at a restaurant,
[3:09:48] I got a call from real estate stating that we couldn't have it, that they were going to use it for stories.
[3:09:56] In further and further investigation, I found out that.
[3:10:00] The county is deciding to tear it down, build a brand new far-house in that area.
[3:10:06] I don't understand why, because Babcock Ranch is an eye-understand living there.
[3:10:12] There's going to build another new far-house, for sure, the county.
[3:10:16] So, with that being said, I would like to propose that you all, please look into it and let us have it to build out.
[3:10:27] We take care of the veterans there.
[3:10:31] We have supported the veterans there, the H.O.A.,
[3:10:35] and Kitton and Partners has let us use their facilities
[3:10:40] for nothing.
[3:10:42] We can't make money without having a post to do that.
[3:10:49] I have some handouts here for you all.
[3:10:54] I had a, I'm legally blind with low vision and it's four pages long, so when I found that out, I figured I'd better just type it up for you.
[3:11:08] So that is what I would like to propose to the commissioners.
[3:11:15] Thank you, sir. Thank you for your comments. Thank you for your service.
[3:11:18] Thank you. If my information is on the bottom of the, so. Thank you.
[3:11:24] Thank you, sir.
[3:11:26] Ann Bale switch and speak, please come forward.
[3:11:35] Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.
[3:11:36] Members of the Board.
[3:11:37] My name is John Schwind.
[3:11:38] I'm the Chairman of the Pirate Harbor Waterway MSBU Advisory Board.
[3:11:44] I come to you with over 30 years of experience as an expert in environmental protection,
[3:11:48] working both for the government and for the private sector.
[3:11:51] I'm also a proud member of a bunch of neighborhood volunteers who love and are committed
[3:11:56] to taking care of the environment.
[3:11:58] Our neighbors, in just the last two years, have planted hundreds of mangroves to try to salvage
[3:12:04] two small islands damaged in the hurricane.
[3:12:07] We also have carried hundreds of buckets of five tons worth of oyster shells in our
[3:12:12] boats, out to a spot working with the Charlotte Harbor Aquatic Preserve to try to restore
[3:12:17] an oyster reef.
[3:12:18] We are a committed bunch of people to the environment.
[3:12:22] Interestingly enough, a project we also advocated for seven or eight years ago was the
[3:12:27] of our interest channel.
[3:12:29] Seagrass is being damaged by boats going out,
[3:12:32] so realigning it, cutting it deeper with minimize that damage.
[3:12:36] The progress was a project was a mitigation in and of itself.
[3:12:40] Nonetheless, we required to grow Seagrass to replace what was damaged in the
[3:12:44] dredge.
[3:12:45] A controversy has a risen regarding the Florida Department of Environmental
[3:12:49] Protections view that they can disregard the results of our Seagrass
[3:12:54] mitigation project.
[3:12:56] FDEP seeks to force the county to spend more money on another project.
[3:13:00] Our advisory board has taken a well-researched position, which I had sent you once before,
[3:13:07] but I made copies to get it to you again, on why we need not spend this money again.
[3:13:13] Florida DEP is not even abiding by its own regulations when it asserts more must be done.
[3:13:18] I'm here today, I apologize only because our attempts to help the county in this matter
[3:13:25] have been obfuscated. It seems like county staff are trying to ignore us into submission.
[3:13:33] They want to use our MSBUs funds for a different project with FDEP's blessing.
[3:13:43] We've tried
[3:13:43] hard to support the county and we've asked for support from staff and we don't get any help.
[3:13:49] ignored. Some examples. We asked to be involved in the budget process for MSBUs. We got no answer.
[3:13:56] By the time we followed up, said, hey, where's that invitation? How can we discuss the budget?
[3:14:01] They said, oh, you're too late. You don't get to participate. Another example, the Cgrass project I mentioned
[3:14:08] was completed in 2024. There are charges to our budget in 2025 and 2026 for Cgrass mitigation.
[3:14:16] But that project ended two years ago, we asked for detailed information as to why we're still being charged.
[3:14:22] No answer.
[3:14:23] We were promised we would be invited to the next agency meeting on the status of this Cgrass project.
[3:14:28] Department leadership purposely excluded us from the meeting we had been promised we would attend
[3:14:33] and never bothered even tell us it was happening.
[3:14:37] We just simply asked you to be involved.
[3:14:39] Thank you.
[3:14:39] Thank you.
[3:14:40] Thank you.
[3:14:40] Thank you.
[3:14:45] Thank you.
[3:14:47] Anybody else wishing to speak please come forward.
[3:14:48] You'll have three minutes.
[3:14:49] State your name for the record.
[3:15:04] We'll get afternoon commissioners. I'd like to thank the last two speakers. I can imagine you not getting a return call from staff. Imagine this county because I offered to be the lobbyist for free to Charlotte County for one year for free.
[3:15:24] And earlier today we heard seeing that come up here and speak after me.
[3:15:31] Now I just want to make some things real clear here to everybody today.
[3:15:39] Look at this.
[3:15:42] That was April 14th, two years ago, everybody.
[3:15:48] Just look at this football field.
[3:15:53] Look at that filamentous algae.
[3:15:56] Now, this isn't from septic tank runoff or agricultural runoff, no,
[3:16:07] this is from the phosphate
[3:16:09] mining industry,
[3:16:13] let's mosaic on everybody,
[3:16:20] mosaic for it made, on the opposite side
[3:16:24] of the piece river, poisoning and polluting shell creek,
[3:16:31] now I'm not going to sit up here
[3:16:33] any more in here, see, nap, or anybody come up here to give us all a massage.
[3:16:40] We don't want to hear it anymore.
[3:16:42] I don't want to see you guys giving any money to any more 501 seas, any who say they're
[3:16:49] protecting the water, because they're not protecting the water.
[3:16:55] We had Dr. Richard Whitman here two years ago, and what did Dr. Richard Whitman tell the
[3:17:04] Charlotte County Legislative delegation, Commissioner Constance, and Truex, and to
[3:17:09] sale? Remember he said the piece river is dying. Dying. Attorney Tom,
[3:17:20] you know, I kind
[3:17:21] miss. Hello, Miss Janet.
[3:17:26] She's sure it made it a little easier to look at the diet.
[3:17:32] But she doesn't feel like that personally. Please don't. I got to tell you guys.
[3:17:42] You've been complicit in letting the river die.
[3:17:46] I don't care what the guys at Tallahassee
[3:17:48] want to tell you chair when you get up there. You tell them this is our harbor. This is my home.
[3:17:56] my children my future legacies home and we want this harbor and this river we want it
[3:18:04] restored. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.
[3:18:08] Anybody else wishing to speak on any kind of related matter? Please come forward. You'll have
[3:18:11] three minutes to take your name for the record. This isn't land use. This is for any other
[3:18:16] related matter, but you can still speak.
[3:18:25] Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Richard Little County resident. My issue today is
[3:18:30] I'm busy doing my own investigation
[3:18:33] on the former Inspector General.
[3:18:35] And in the process, I arranged to meet with public quirks.
[3:18:39] And I was afforded 30 minutes for that meeting,
[3:18:43] of which the first five we waited for an attorney
[3:18:46] to zoom in on that meeting.
[3:18:49] Once that attorney got there, that attorney interrupted
[3:18:52] no less than three times, taking up a majority
[3:18:56] of my 30 minutes.
[3:18:58] And for whatever reason, that attorney decided it was appropriate to provide me legal counsel.
[3:19:05] That legal counsel went something like this.
[3:19:08] I advise you to put your questions in writing and submit those two community development.
[3:19:16] In order to obtain a consistent answer from the county,
[3:19:21] I'm not interested in a consistent answer from the county.
[3:19:24] What I'm looking for is the truth from the county as an investigator how you go about doing that as you ask that same question from several sources
[3:19:34] You then compare those answers
[3:19:37] And if they're consistent then you probably have the truth when they're inconsistent. That's the thread you follow to find the truth
[3:19:46] Thank you. Thank you sir. Thank you for your comments anybody else watching speak please come forward station a for the record you'll have three minutes on any kind of related matter
[3:20:10] Good afternoon. My name is Samuel Turpinning for the record. I am standing here holding a campaign
[3:20:16] mailer from Vanessa Oliver. She is actively blasting mailing our community claiming she is fighting
[3:20:22] the newest threat to parental rights and targeting digital A.I. pedophiles. It is incredibly convenient to
[3:20:30] lecture the public about artificial machines and threats on a piece of paper. But let's bring
[3:20:35] some raw, unfiltered common sense to this dyes. The deepest threat to our children is in
[3:20:41] a digital ghost. It is a total collapse of operational accountability inside our actual
[3:20:48] physical institutions right here in Charlotte County. The State of Florida officially
[3:20:54] ranks third in the nation for human trafficking, and our own local soil is classified as
[3:21:00] prime geographical transit corridor and hotspot for exploitation between Miami and Tampa.
[3:21:08] Yawaya politicians use soft national headlines to hunt for boats. Our local systems are dealing
[3:21:14] with systematic real-world exploitation cover-ups. Let's look right under this roof with
[3:21:20] commissioner-crints' constants. When thousands of explicit photos are uncovered on a county
[3:21:27] issued government laptop outside Council investigated and found a clear policy violation.
[3:21:34] But what did this commission do?
[3:21:36] You chose to overrule those findings to declare them no-lamboyant and sweep it entirely
[3:21:41] under the rug.
[3:21:43] How can regular citizens have faith in the rules when high ranking officials get a pass
[3:21:48] for explicit material on public property?
[3:21:51] You send a message to every resident that if you hope power, the laws do not apply to you.
[3:21:56] Now, let's look at our school board where the states involve our children.
[3:22:02] We have seen horrific arrest of educators in this county for sexual misconduct and child abuse.
[3:22:08] I am not standing here accusing school board member Kim Amantry of intentionally protecting
[3:22:14] them, but she has a non-negotiable statutory responsibility to safeguard our students.
[3:22:21] Where was the oversight?
[3:22:24] What systematic betting flaws allow these individuals near our kids?
[3:22:29] Being a public official isn't about ribbon cutting, symbolic hunting, resolutions, or sending out flashy mallers about AI.
[3:22:37] If you hold the seat, you hold the responsibility.
[3:22:40] We are tired of the double standards in bureaucracy and their shrugs.
[3:22:45] We expect our leaders to act as a show for the public, not a show for each other.
[3:22:50] Do your jobs and protect the most innocent the most innocent amongst us our children and God help us do that God bless you
[3:23:01] Thanks for your comments, sir anybody else wish in the speak please come forward station any for the record. You'll have three minutes
[3:23:20] Good afternoon. Good afternoon
[3:23:22] I'm going to read to you an email that was sent from Gary Bang. Just name for the record, man
[3:23:28] Name for the record. My name is Susie Dittle. Thank you
[3:23:32] this email was in October 30th, 2025 to Laura Rossi. There was no subject. Laura, I needed a date too. This is in regards to water side. I'm sorry.
[3:23:46] So we're going to, we'll pause your time for a minute. We can take that under consideration when we open that land use item up. This is for public input any counter related matter.
[3:23:55] So, we're not supposed to consider any comments on land use at this stage of the meeting.
[3:24:02] I know, but you can say it. You can say what you want and then if you want to repeat it again, you can come back on the land use.
[3:24:08] I don't have, I'm going to read something else.
[3:24:11] Okay. That's fine. Okay.
[3:24:12] So, yeah.
[3:24:12] I want to make sure you understood.
[3:24:14] Right.
[3:24:14] Okay. We're going to resume your time when you start talking.
[3:24:18] So, Gary Bains is to Laura.
[3:24:21] I need an update to this TIS.
[3:24:23] So it needs to reflect the worst-case condition, which is an excavation and the in-back
[3:24:29] filling it with mulch and compost. So the truck count has changed. However, we are only going 13 feet
[3:24:37] deep now and we're filling the rest. This would be the worst-case scenario. The other case is we leave it as a lake.
[3:24:48] And do not backfill it. But we do backfill the berms around the perimeter of the site.
[3:24:54] more likely that this is going to be what happens.
[3:25:00] Do you need a cubic yard of both scenarios? Gary Bain?
[3:25:06] Thank you for your comments, ma'am. Anybody else wishing to speak please come forward, state your name for the record? You'll have three minutes.
[3:25:29] Mr. Chairman and commissioners, good afternoon. My name is Dwight Dean. I live in Prairie Creek Park in some 170 residential property owners in our community.
[3:25:41] pre-creek park is less than two and a half miles from a proposed
[3:25:45] mine site known as water side. Shortly you'll be presented important
[3:25:50] detailed information regarding the application for water side,
[3:25:53] which we trust you'll carefully examine. My point is to suggest broader
[3:25:58] context to consider this application. We residents chose this community to
[3:26:04] invest our resources to build our homes, families, and enjoy living on
[3:26:09] with a distinctive rural character. While we welcome a diverse variety of activities that fit
[3:26:16] naturally within this definition, it would never include sand mining. As you can infer from the
[3:26:24] size and the volume of the public expression that will gather here today, it simply does not fit.
[3:26:31] Each day we see many real changes taking place as Florida's population grows.
[3:26:37] Since it says that just under 2 million people moved to Florida between 2020 and 2025, historic
[3:26:45] growth, second only to Texas, Charlotte's population grew 20% in the same period.
[3:26:53] While these data always lag behind the reality, Charlotte County residents already see an
[3:26:59] impact, some very good for our economy, more real estate clients, more shoppers, more hungry
[3:27:06] patrons in restaurants. Yet, some stressing are familiar infrastructure, more cars and traffic,
[3:27:13] more patients visiting healthcare providers, greater demands for public services, and while you
[3:27:19] won't see a big change when you drive home tonight, this quiet, subtle, and irreversible trend
[3:27:26] is building stress on existing infrastructures, such as our roads and transportation grid.
[3:27:32] You, better than we, understand the difficult decisions necessary when this population growth exceeds
[3:27:40] existing capacities of our local infrastructure.
[3:27:44] You know how more traffic, in particular those large trucks hauling large, heavy loads,
[3:27:51] as conceived by this application, inflates and exaggerates our present pattern of growth,
[3:27:56] and will require even more frequent updates and upgrades of critical transportation corridors, like Burmont and Duncan Rhodes.
[3:28:05] This is just common sense.
[3:28:08] These are the critical priorities we're focused on as you consider this water side application.
[3:28:14] We are here to support you as you seek this critical balance and ask you to avoid the intrusive and disruptive nature
[3:28:22] this application wishes to impose upon our community as all of us deal with many other remarkable
[3:28:29] changes driven by our recent and anticipated population growth.
[3:28:34] Thank you, sir.
[3:28:35] Thank you.
[3:28:35] Thank you.
[3:28:36] Annabelle's question to speak on any county subject.
[3:28:38] Please come forward, station name for the record.
[3:28:40] You'll have three minutes.
[3:28:45] Again, if it's a land use comment, we have land use next at 2 p.m.
[3:28:51] Hello.
[3:28:52] I'm Melanie from Pared Outreach.
[3:28:53] We've met a bunch.
[3:28:55] So, I spoke to Mr. Constance. He was the one that actually called you back, which I appreciate. Thank you.
[3:29:02] We're still haven't gotten anywhere, so he did give me advice on to tell you guys what we're spending.
[3:29:07] So you guys all have got our 990s this morning, or we'll get them today.
[3:29:12] Our 990s for the last four years, and so you guys can see the difference in what we spend.
[3:29:16] We're from Pared Outreach Society, the 501C39 profit.
[3:29:19] that, you know, we've been here, we're struggling to keep our facility open, we're paying
[3:29:23] some of the $900 a month and rent, we're asking for your assistance.
[3:29:27] You know, we were able to pull the surplus list of properties that Charlie County uses that are empty
[3:29:32] or not being used or being used for storage.
[3:29:34] It's immense.
[3:29:35] So I don't, I'm having a very hard time understanding why no one can even look at it
[3:29:40] and, you know, sit down and talk to us.
[3:29:42] I've left at least 20 messages for Mr. Flores to give me a call I've never heard from him.
[3:29:46] I've spoken to Melissa and Amanda, I think, are your assistants a hundred times and they tell me you'll call me, but I've never heard from you
[3:29:54] Again, Mr. Constance was the one that did give me a call and I looked into some of the things that you know
[3:30:00] We discussed, like, talking to farms, seeing if we could move our birds somewhere else. The problem is we have almost 300 birds. We would have to space them out. We only have 220 volunteers. How do we keep them fed? How do we keep them clean? How do we, you know, they have to be in one location. We're paying, you know, moving them all over the place doesn't work. We, you know, we've never asked the county for anything. You guys have to understand. We've been here 17 years, 17 years. We've taken care of the birds of this county and that for you guys to believe that there isn't a need. It's crazy.
[3:30:30] Birds carry disease that we keep controlled for the county.
[3:30:34] We just took in 21 birds from one resident in Charlotte County seven days ago.
[3:30:40] This is what we do and you guys don't know that there's fallen because we've been able to maintain it for 17 years without any help.
[3:30:47] But we can't do that anymore.
[3:30:50] We're not asking you guys to give us money.
[3:30:52] We're asking for us for you guys to help us with the building and let us pay the annual rent.
[3:30:56] Or help us pay our bet, maybe not all of it, but it's a discussion of some sort as to how we move forward.
[3:31:03] We have an 8,000 square foot facility and we can barely move inside of it.
[3:31:07] I've invited all of you to come visit, come look at what we do. This isn't just like, you know, a tiny pet shop.
[3:31:14] We are 501c3, no one gets paid to be there. We are volunteer based only.
[3:31:18] You know, when I spoke to the fire chief, he told me if we started to use the nice birds, we could move into a smaller facility.
[3:31:23] That doesn't help the problem, there are still at least 120,000 birds living in homes inside of Charlotte County.
[3:31:32] Whether you believe that or not, there are.
[3:31:33] We've done statistics.
[3:31:34] We've looked.
[3:31:35] We've talked to veterinarian clinics all over Charlotte County.
[3:31:37] People don't house one bird.
[3:31:39] I personally have 50 birds at home in Lee County.
[3:31:44] People don't house one.
[3:31:45] They house a lot more than that.
[3:31:47] And Charlotte County does not have a breeding policy for anyone.
[3:31:52] So thank you.
[3:31:53] Thank you for your comments. Anybody else wishing to speak? Please come forward. Yeah, you'll have three minutes.
[3:31:57] State your name for the record.
[3:32:02] Again, if it's on land use.
[3:32:04] First of all, gentlemen. Yeah. Thank you for having me here.
[3:32:07] Name for the record. My name is Walter Belfse, B. L. T. Z.
[3:32:12] I'll reside at Rotunda West. I live. I was in Illinois, Southern Illinois.
[3:32:20] If you know where that's at, I live in North and Carbondil, and when I think
[3:32:26] and I was drafted in 1966 in the Vietnam era.
[3:32:34] I went to a Y school field barracks.
[3:32:36] We replaced the 25th division.
[3:32:39] They went to Vietnam.
[3:32:43] And I went to Thailand.
[3:32:44] I was a death sergeant.
[3:32:45] They were a policeman.
[3:32:47] We brought bombs in and bomb Vietnam.
[3:32:50] On B-52.
[3:32:54] And my career, my qualifications, I was at the
[3:32:58] only state trooper in the military place in
[3:33:02] this arch, and I was at the DAPI U.S.
[3:33:04] Marshall. I worked as a court security office
[3:33:08] like these people here. I was a federal
[3:33:10] court officer. And I've seen a lot of things in my life.
[3:33:16] I'm always going to meet my right of book. I have
[3:33:19] long death. But anyway, you get back my point. We have a tap of day rays on
[3:33:26] Eljo mean in the springtime or spring. The traffic is horrendous and I was a
[3:33:36] board member. I was a high school board member seven years and I was a
[3:33:40] president for it and I'm leaving safety and I know you're worried about money
[3:33:46] It may be building overpass, you know what, a life is more important.
[3:33:53] You need to build an overpass, and getting back to be a boarder, and our superintendent
[3:34:01] would go and check out grants, the law of grants and they paid partial, the law of grants
[3:34:10] if you investigate, I guess you're the board president?
[3:34:15] No.
[3:34:15] I'm not the president.
[3:34:17] Don't you wish you were?
[3:34:19] Anyway, Joe.
[3:34:23] In 2025, we had 12 troops hit by semi-grivers, grunks out of 12.
[3:34:32] Eight troops was died.
[3:34:39] And one of them was from by home, now in Picneyville.
[3:34:42] He was 25 years old.
[3:34:44] He had three years on the job.
[3:34:47] had a kid for a child for and one-two.
[3:34:52] Well, this person died that killed my drunk.
[3:34:57] And over him.
[3:34:59] And here's a guy there.
[3:35:00] We have a very lovely, lost two children versus wife. Anyway, I was a Deputy U.S. Marshal and Federal Courthouse. Hang on.
[3:35:10] No, that, it's not, no, it's, it's three minutes.
[3:35:12] I was the board president. I understand the agenda.
[3:35:15] It's, yeah, it's three minutes, sir. Thank you.
[3:35:17] Thank you, sir.
[3:35:17] Thank you, sir.
[3:35:18] Well, what I'm saying is we need to protection.
[3:35:21] Thank you, sir.
[3:35:22] No, I'm not going to stop.
[3:35:24] We need to protect you.
[3:35:26] No, I'm not going to stop.
[3:35:27] We understeed over past Bill. I got you. We got your points, sir, public safety overpassed.
[3:35:32] Okay, thank you very much. Nice to meet you all.
[3:35:35] Yeah, thank you, sir. Thank you for your comments.
[3:35:38] Anybody wishing to speak? Please come forward, stage your name for the record.
[3:35:40] You'll have three minutes.
[3:35:44] Yeah, thank you, sir.
[3:35:53] Hello, my name is Charles Goodman. I live in the Punta Gord area and I'm here to speak on behalf
[3:35:59] of the Powered Outreach Society. Five years ago my wife and I walked into the
[3:36:07] Once had a parrot for almost 25 years from a baby until it's passing, so naturally we were
[3:36:12] curious about what this place really was.
[3:36:14] We were warmly greeted by a volunteer staff member who gave us a tour of the facilities
[3:36:18] and gave us a short orientation regarding the different types of birds currently housed
[3:36:22] there.
[3:36:23] Over the next three years we have adopted three parrot from the outreach society, each one,
[3:36:28] an older bird, who had somehow lost their previous homes and needed someone to care for
[3:36:32] them.
[3:36:32] Unlike most domestic pets, parents can live a lifespan very similar to ours.
[3:36:38] Birds are now the third most popular pet in not just Florida but in America.
[3:36:43] Behind right behind dogs and cats, many of the birds at the outreach society are simply there
[3:36:48] because they've outlived their owners' ability to care for them.
[3:36:51] The powered Irish society not only finds suitable homes and caretakers for these birds but
[3:36:56] provide invaluable guidance that makes the adoption most likely to succeed. They don't just hand the
[3:37:02] walks in. The volunteers are always available for consultation if one has concerns regarding
[3:37:07] the health, nutrition or behavior of your parrot. It doesn't matter if it was adopted there
[3:37:11] or if it was purchased as a pet elsewhere. The expertise of the volunteers is irreplaceable.
[3:37:17] All the birds are diseased tested upon arrival and any affected birds will receive medical treatments.
[3:37:23] nowhere else in the area can one go to get the advice and services that are now available at the
[3:37:28] outreach. They provide grooming services such as nail trims, beak trims as well as disease testing
[3:37:33] and DNA tests that would normally incur a very expensive vet belt for just the nominal donation
[3:37:38] at the outreach. This also gives the owners a chance to speak to more experienced bird owners
[3:37:43] regarding any health concerns they may have with their birds. If needed, the outreach has a list of
[3:37:49] qualified exotic animal veterinarians in the west coast. Sadly, the nearest ones are either an
[3:37:55] north or in our south of Pantagorta. The services in assistance provided by the outreach is an
[3:38:00] important asset to our community and our residents. The doors are open to the public and this offers
[3:38:05] many people in the community the ability to interact with parents in a way that's not available
[3:38:09] elsewhere in the area. Children's faces light up when a bird shows a special interest in a visiting
[3:38:14] child. Their smiles are priceless when a bird introduces themselves by speaking,
[3:38:19] hello, I'm Kiddles, or hey girl, such interactions can shape a child's personality you become
[3:38:24] more open to having better understanding of animals.
[3:38:27] This can then extend to their relationship with other people.
[3:38:29] Pairs are incredibly intelligent birds.
[3:38:31] They are capable of critical thinking and are often able to vocalize their feelings.
[3:38:36] Just going one recent meeting of the volunteers, a long time resident parrot,
[3:38:40] interjected into the conversation regarding the care of birds.
[3:38:43] Quote, you think you're so smart and then let out a laugh.
[3:38:48] Yes, they can speak, but they need us to speak for them here so that they can have a safe
[3:38:52] and secure future in our community.
[3:38:54] I respectfully ask you to support the panel.
[3:38:56] I would like to say thank you.
[3:38:57] I'm a valuable asset to our community.
[3:38:58] Thank you, sir.
[3:38:59] Anybody else wishing to speak?
[3:39:00] Please come forward to your name for the record.
[3:39:02] You'll have three minutes.
[3:39:07] Good afternoon.
[3:39:07] Thank you for having me.
[3:39:09] I'm Charles McLean speaking on behalf of the Parent Outreach Society.
[3:39:13] You've heard a lot about our organizations been around for a long time.
[3:39:16] I've been there since 2019, and the board member for the past three years.
[3:39:22] So the other thing is I could tell you about the paradigm reaches the way we help out domestic
[3:39:25] violence, whom's people?
[3:39:28] They have to get rid of their animals when that's at that happens.
[3:39:30] We take them in no charge.
[3:39:31] We don't charge anybody about it.
[3:39:33] We take care of medical care expenses, and they get stunned.
[3:39:37] So what we do is a lot.
[3:39:38] It's a harpset volunteer.
[3:39:40] As a 5-1-C-3, we try our best to keep the bird poop out of peace river because we take
[3:39:45] care of them.
[3:39:46] and they come in our walls, no questions asked,
[3:39:49] we'll take care of your birds long as you need to.
[3:39:51] If you need to, we find new home for them.
[3:39:55] But what's tough is, as Mel said,
[3:39:57] every month gets harder and harder
[3:39:58] because of the cost of...
[3:40:00] At least this county, it's unbelievable, I did it to your hunt, I'll try and define us another facility. We've tried everywhere. We get told by some of this rental property, it's not the sort of thing we want in our mall. It's not the sort of thing we want in our little poor in the world here. But we're here. We haven't gone away, we take care of everyone. The county has a lot of distress property. You're paying a lot of money to take care of it and stop being used. We have a legitimate
[3:40:29] 100% cause that's all volunteer and we take care of everyone. We also have the training program
[3:40:35] we're getting out to the schools, educating people on the birds, how to take care of them.
[3:40:41] Don't chew more than you can bite off because what sad is, you have a lot of seniors down here
[3:40:46] that take these birds for their companions. That day comes where they pass on. The bird out lives them.
[3:40:52] The bird is another home. The families don't help them out. It's a huge cost. It's a huge uptaking
[3:40:57] we're glad to do it, but every year it does get harder and harder to do this.
[3:41:03] So, help with the rent, help with some land purchase, help with any vacant buildings that
[3:41:08] have no calls or use right now is a huge help to us, because every year it's going up, every
[3:41:14] month it's going up, it's getting harder and harder to do this calls, and again we do provide
[3:41:18] a good service to the county, and education we're pushing more and more every month that
[3:41:23] we can get from a people to tell them, we will love a day that comes or we're not
[3:41:27] isn't setting more. But the human spirit's never going to let that happen, because
[3:41:31] sometimes we'll say, hey, my bird, or my dogs, by the way, I'm going to breed them,
[3:41:35] it's sticking out in a population, and then all of a sudden that pet doesn't have a home.
[3:41:40] So, you know, we do provide that service. And again, it's preset it, pre-date at me,
[3:41:47] you know, the torch has been passed to us now. We take care of it right now. So, a lot of good
[3:41:51] people built your organization that's been around for a long time. One of the longest
[3:41:55] If I won't see three's in the county, thank you very much for your tone.
[3:42:00] Thank you, sir.
[3:42:00] Anybody else question?
[3:42:01] Speak, please come forward.
[3:42:02] State your name for the record.
[3:42:03] You'll have three minutes.
[3:42:06] Good afternoon, commissioners.
[3:42:07] My name is Patty Castro.
[3:42:10] I am not affiliated at all with the parent outreach society.
[3:42:14] But I'm feel compelled to come up and speak to you about it.
[3:42:18] Several years ago, a friend of mine's parent passed away.
[3:42:20] I was not aware of the organization.
[3:42:22] I went there, I made a donation, and I would encourage you to go to see the facility that they have.
[3:42:29] I continue to support them.
[3:42:30] They're an amazing organization, and I would request that you do something to help this wonderful organization, our community.
[3:42:37] Thank you.
[3:42:38] Anybody else wish and speak?
[3:42:39] Please come forward.
[3:42:40] We'll have three minutes.
[3:42:43] Good afternoon.
[3:42:44] My name is Richard Venacker.
[3:42:46] And I've been involved with the MSBU Streets and Drainage Golf Cove for about 18 years either on the board or
[3:42:53] as a resident recently. Two years ago the committee brought up taking out
[3:42:59] there's a little small medium when you come in on off 7, 7, 6 on
[3:43:03] to the July. Taking that medium out widening and making an extra lane in
[3:43:08] there to match Fthe of T's layout that's already at the intersection. They've
[3:43:14] been turned down at every meeting this past meeting. They were turned down
[3:43:19] again for it, but they said that they'll do a $1.6 million
[3:43:24] beautification, put in curves and shrink in the lanes, but we
[3:43:29] want it widened because of the amount of traffic that's in there.
[3:43:33] Now that the parks in there, the building that's going on, we're
[3:43:37] backed up all the way through that island waiting for Q on that light.
[3:43:42] The identical intersection for the north side is at
[3:43:46] water. In a matter of fact, July is bigger, wider than that water is. So there would still
[3:43:53] be a legal median and everything. I know you all haven't heard it from public works because
[3:44:00] they never tell you what the MSB is really want. And I'm leaving town for a couple of months.
[3:44:07] There will be other people here in the next couple of meetings. I got the dates wrong and I told
[3:44:11] them their long dates that they come up and speak. So they'll be coming to talk to you about it too.
[3:44:16] But the committee the residents all want that medium widen so the traffic can flow
[3:44:23] Thank you. You all have good afternoon. Thank you, sir. Anybody else wishing to speak
[3:44:29] On any kind of related subject, please state your name for the record. You'll have three minutes. I have the handouts
[3:44:37] There's eight copies
[3:44:39] Thank
[3:44:56] you
[3:44:56] Colonel Mary Ann Tipton United State's Air Force Retired Perry Creek Web
[3:45:00] Speaking today, regarding the unauthorized extension of TCP-24-04, adoption hearing deadline as established by law expired July 9, 2026, 180 days after transmittal.
[3:45:15] As of this morning, July 28, 2026, we have received no communication or feedback from you or your staff on our letter.
[3:45:24] That's another copy of it, regarding statutory expiration and automatic withdrawal of proposed
[3:45:30] complaint amendment, TCP2404, the Charlotte County Amendment 25-06-ESR, the RSAOD revisions,
[3:45:41] which I also sent through your assistant as Charlotte County's Lordy.gov on Sunday because
[3:45:46] it had been two weeks and we had not heard a word back from you.
[3:45:50] This, after months of various discussions with individual staff and board members as well.
[3:45:56] At the April 28th, 2026 Board of Commissioners meeting, during commissioners' comments,
[3:46:02] the following comments all quotes from commissioners and can be verified on your video were made regarding extensions.
[3:46:10] Do we have a spreadsheet of when and why extensions have been granted in the past?
[3:46:14] No one knew or responded.
[3:46:16] How many proposals have been granted extensions, how long were those extensions?
[3:46:21] Do we even know which ones come back after how long?
[3:46:25] We should review extensions for approval, not staff, maybe?
[3:46:29] We should have a workshop about polting extensions.
[3:46:32] When? We don't see these things for months and forget what it was about.
[3:46:37] They asked their attorney, U.S. to your attorney, his opinion on extensions, and staff approval, or board of commissioners.
[3:46:46] His response, we will look into it. That was three months ago. We haven't heard.
[3:46:52] We expected some type of response long before today. By law, the adoption hearing had to be held no later than December.
[3:47:00] he's met July 9th, 2026, 100 days after transmittal returned from state.
[3:47:06] Reminder the applicant first applied for TCP20404 on September 17th, 2024, which is approximately
[3:47:14] 2.42 years to have their sewer and water plans approved, which is why they asked for an extension.
[3:47:21] March 17th, 2026, Mr. Delisi on behalf of the applicant sent an email to staff after hours,
[3:47:27] requesting an additional 180 days, extension out to February 28.
[3:47:34] Staff sent to DOC within a very short time, also after hours to record new date, with
[3:47:39] still 111 days before the original deadline.
[3:47:43] As elected officials from your tax paying constituents, don't we deserve a response to
[3:47:48] our inquiry, not just crickets?
[3:47:52] Thank you for your time.
[3:47:53] We look forward to your response.
[3:47:54] Thank you.
[3:47:55] Anybody else wishing to speak please come forward. You'll have three minutes on any kind of related matter
[3:48:00] Okay, seeing no one rise gentlemen. Do you want to try to attempt comments or you'd you like to go into recess until too?
[3:48:08] What's the pleasure of the board?
[3:48:11] Okay, so we want to take a stab at comments and we'll just stop wherever we stop. Yeah, okay
[3:48:16] Start to my left-hand commissioner, do it your recognized for contact. Well, actually we have a
[3:48:22] Mr. Flores. Thank you. I just have a quick one. It's actually piggybacking off
[3:48:25] we had set the public hearing coming up for September 8th regarding right away and the discussion
[3:48:31] enforcement.
[3:48:32] Just so the board knows, it's not only right away that we're making sure we take a look
[3:48:36] at, but it's also, there's other instances, county owned parcels, we're folks end up staging
[3:48:41] or parking along them.
[3:48:43] So we're trying to take a look at all that where there might be some non-compliance issues
[3:48:47] and see how we go about enforcing whether it's putting up signings or trespassing.
[3:48:52] So I'm more to come on that, but that's it.
[3:48:53] Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[3:48:54] Mr. David, any comments?
[3:48:56] Okay, Commissioner George, you're recognized for comments.
[3:48:59] I guess I could comment on a whole bunch of things that are including the birds.
[3:49:04] I'll just comment on a few so we can all have a chance.
[3:49:08] The last speaker, Mary Ann, who talked about the expiration date,
[3:49:13] I sort of recall that coming before this board.
[3:49:19] Tom David, did you get a chance to look into that?
[3:49:21] verify the date so see if an extension was done or what the status is on that.
[3:49:29] Commissioner, we do an interview at Tom David County Attorney.
[3:49:32] We do administrative extensions which is a common practice around state.
[3:49:37] Okay, so that's under an extension right now.
[3:49:43] The project that she's that she referenced at the Colonel reference is that project was extended
[3:49:51] the person to the email that she talked about.
[3:49:54] Okay, and it was extended in due time, and you know the date that it's extended.
[3:50:00] I don't have the dates. Excuse me? I do not have the dates, sir. Maybe we can't. Maybe we can't have that.
[3:50:06] You can't respond, no, I'm sorry. Maybe we can get that information if we have it. And so, share.
[3:50:15] So, the lady would be able to see that we will follow in rules that were established and that we just as a procedure, both times will extend some of those items.
[3:50:27] If we could get that for, I think it would be helpful.
[3:50:30] I believe community development has that information,
[3:50:32] and I'll talk to that about it.
[3:50:35] Okay, thank you.
[3:50:37] The other thing that concerns me,
[3:50:39] and we all pride ourselves on responding to emails.
[3:50:44] What are you doing here?
[3:50:46] I thought you retired.
[3:50:48] emails and phone calls and all that stuff.
[3:50:51] But I'm concerned that, I guess they said, a lot of calls, I don't know what we call
[3:51:00] if it was 30 or 300 or whatever, but it was an awful lot of calls went to the Administrators
[3:51:06] office and no one called them back, maybe you could check on that internally, because I think
[3:51:12] most of us try to return off phone calls and have some level of communication with the citizens
[3:51:20] whenever possible, so you may want to heck if you could touch space with that person and see what
[3:51:28] happened if all those phone calls, so you didn't get a return, that doesn't, that just doesn't
[3:51:35] seem consistent for me. For the birds,
[3:51:41] I had a bunch of parakeets at one time and puppies and
[3:51:44] all kinds of stuff flying around and apartment houses, I grew up as a youngster. And I think most
[3:51:50] of us are pet lovers, although now that I have three of my house, I'm beginning to question
[3:51:56] if I'm saying or not, but the issue with the parents is I don't think, and maybe the
[3:52:06] Administrator Attorney will comment on that, I don't think we have a way that we could
[3:52:14] provide funding to a 501, C3, not that the need is in there.
[3:52:21] We had this request come up at the end of the cultural center before it got destroyed by hurricanes.
[3:52:28] I'm not sure that we have a methodology or a way that we can provide funding to an organization
[3:52:37] group like that. I don't know, Tom, you may want to comment on that one too, but I don't
[3:52:44] think we don't have a router or a plan to be able to provide taxpayer dollars to something
[3:52:50] like that. Not that it wouldn't be helpful and not that there's not a need, but I don't
[3:52:56] think there's a way we can do that. Is that Tom that I'm not aware of?
[3:53:00] Tom David County Attorney, I think Commissioner the way to do that would be to ask for the
[3:53:05] board to act and then included in the budget process.
[3:53:08] We can look at anything you wish.
[3:53:10] I mean, whatever's legally allowed,
[3:53:13] I don't know what this organization's status is
[3:53:16] or we do grant funding.
[3:53:19] We do different types of county does.
[3:53:21] So, well, we do that package through the United Way,
[3:53:23] which has been established.
[3:53:26] There's different types of projects that the county funds
[3:53:31] for various county services.
[3:53:34] we use vendors and all kinds of things so there's ways to do it you just need to direct the staff
[3:53:39] to investigate it. We would have to go through the budget. I picked a couple because I'm going to
[3:53:45] give everyone else a chance to comment because I've got some more comments on some of the other
[3:53:50] things that came up too. Let someone else go in. Well you have the floor for comments or are
[3:54:00] you
[3:54:05] go down your list and we'll all come in after you.
[3:54:08] I don't want to comment and everything I want to give everyone else enough to do so, so
[3:54:12] I'm fine.
[3:54:13] No.
[3:54:13] Okay.
[3:54:14] You don't want your comments for now.
[3:54:16] Commissioner Truex.
[3:54:16] Do you have any comments?
[3:54:18] I'm just going to bring up any annual conference for the NATO successful conference.
[3:54:23] I was not there for the general session on Monday.
[3:54:26] I flew back early to get back, but the meetings went very, very well.
[3:54:30] We do have a new second-by-chair, whatever it is,
[3:54:36] which ever we're going to see.
[3:54:38] Vice President, yeah.
[3:54:39] Some of them share some for anyway.
[3:54:41] And that is Sarah Bittithar.
[3:54:45] And I don't have a whole lot else to report.
[3:54:48] My Justice of Public Safety meetings went very well.
[3:54:50] We had good participation from FEMA while we were there.
[3:54:54] And so that was good.
[3:54:55] The deputy director that I got to meet with when I was in DC was also there.
[3:54:58] So it's good to see.
[3:55:00] See her and staff there to do a presentation. The acting administrator who has been an acting administrator before you got 30 years of experience was there and hoping to see the new appointee confirmed by the Senate.
[3:55:13] I haven't heard how that's going at this point, but they were hoping to have it done this week. So we also also be watching that.
[3:55:20] The person that's in charge now, and the person that's coming in, and a previous administrator
[3:55:26] FEMA, we're all in our disaster recovery meeting, and that meeting went very, very well,
[3:55:32] got in some very good detail.
[3:55:33] It sounds like they're on board to make some good modifications and not just get the agency.
[3:55:39] So I think there's improvements in that area, and it's good to see things moving in a positive
[3:55:44] direction. We all know that we need to see reform in FEMA, but we need FEMA in place where we
[3:55:51] are concerned about if they go to a grant process, what that looks like, but they have also
[3:55:56] been informed that we would like to see it bypass the states in order to get to the local communities
[3:56:01] and stop getting held up between the federal government and the state and the state decides,
[3:56:05] well, I'm going to give it here instead of there. We're direct now, so it's better, but overall,
[3:56:10] Well, I think we're going to see some improvements, just keep praying for them.
[3:56:14] It's a long way to go.
[3:56:16] And that's all I have to say.
[3:56:17] Thank you, sir.
[3:56:18] Commissioner Dwight.
[3:56:18] Did you want to comment on Commissioner Choices' comments or continue?
[3:56:21] No, I just like to bring one up because I think the gentleman left, but I had some
[3:56:25] information be relevant to all of us.
[3:56:27] So, gentlemen, suggested getting a walkover from the Fed grounds and where the parking lot
[3:56:34] is over into the sports park.
[3:56:36] And particularly when the Stone Krabs were here a number of years ago and I first came
[3:56:41] on the board, we actually looked into that.
[3:56:45] And the problem with getting the ramp number one was then, I would hate to guess what it
[3:56:51] is now.
[3:56:52] But the cost then was well over a million dollars, and that was about 15 years ago, so I hate
[3:56:58] to guess what it would be.
[3:56:59] But the other problem with it and putting in the overpass, you would have to meet federal guidelines
[3:57:08] for making it accessible to anyone handicapped, disabled, and to do that, you need one foot
[3:57:17] for every inch. And the Passover would have to be high enough that, and I don't remember to
[3:57:26] stay the height of a vehicle, but it was somewhere around 18 to 20 feet to get make sure
[3:57:32] all the trucks that go on that roadway would be able to get under it. Well to do that,
[3:57:39] you have to remember for every inch you need a foot. And the problem was just looking and
[3:57:45] we didn't have enough room to be able to build it and still let people pass, but it probably
[3:57:51] would have gone back hundreds of yards to be able to get the height we need to cross over
[3:57:56] press the price, but we did look into it at one time, and obviously when we had the stone
[3:58:01] crabs and other things were going on, it was even, even busier there. But I wanted to
[3:58:05] share that, I mean, I think Chris probably knew it, but I don't know if everyone else
[3:58:09] did.
[3:58:10] Do you want to finish a list of comments?
[3:58:12] No, I'm good.
[3:58:13] It's going to be my last call. Would you like to finish your list of comments? Okay, Mr.
[3:58:17] Flores, you're recognized.
[3:58:18] Thank you. I'll be quick. Commissioner Tracks, I know you were busy at NACO, but thank
[3:58:22] for picking up the Digital County Survey Award for us.
[3:58:25] Commissioner Constitut, you bring it up, you're challenging, push us to take advantage of
[3:58:29] technology, AI, so Kudos to Ben Bailey and his team, because they've gotten that handful
[3:58:35] of years in a row, so we'll keep pressing forward.
[3:58:37] Thank you, Chair.
[3:58:38] Yeah, that presentation is going to be on the September meeting, first meeting in September.
[3:58:43] For that award.
[3:58:45] Thank you.
[3:58:46] Mr. Constitut.
[3:58:47] Yeah, just real quick.
[3:58:47] I appreciate the people coming in from the Perth Society and I don't know if we discussed
[3:58:53] it on the phone call but maybe one thought is to see about partnering up with other possibly
[3:58:59] for profit or non-for-profit groups like a Guana land or some of the other ones around.
[3:59:04] I don't know if I mentioned that before so you know she shaker her hand but you know
[3:59:09] I do think there's an opportunity not just talking about your situation but also the gentleman
[3:59:13] talking about the firehouse at a Babcock, you know, making sure that we're fully utilizing
[3:59:18] county facilities.
[3:59:20] So I think that's maybe something that we have to have some deep conversations about.
[3:59:24] That's it.
[3:59:24] Thank you.
[3:59:25] Mr. Dorty.
[3:59:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[3:59:26] Yeah, I was going to bring up a Mr. Acceler from Babcock Ranch on the Firehouse on 31.
[3:59:31] Yes, I am the commissioner.
[3:59:32] He's been in communication with, and I've been working with Mr. Flores on this as well.
[3:59:37] I would just ask, Hector, if you could take in brief all board members in your one-on-ones
[3:59:43] as to the status of that building and what the plans are so that we all know and then probably
[3:59:48] send an email of some kind of written correspondence to Mr. Accler so the Legion out there
[3:59:54] knows what the real plans are for the county. I appreciate that.
[3:59:58] He asked that we look into it.
[4:00:00] That's the reason for my request. Thank you, sir. Yes, so for my comments, I did speak to staff when that VA post request came in. My understanding is we weren't ready to serve plus that property.
[4:00:13] That's right. So, you know, I guess we can formalize a letter and correspond with the gentleman. It's just we're not ready to do that. We haven't determined it's ready for serve plus.
[4:00:23] Yeah, you recognized sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I think that's exactly the dialogue.
[4:00:27] I think Mr. Flores needs to have with each one of us individually, so he gets a sense of,
[4:00:33] you know, where he's heading with it, makes sure he's got consensus from the board, right?
[4:00:37] Just continue down that pathway.
[4:00:39] And in regards to the parrot outreach program, I did speak to staff about, you know, what the county could do or facilities.
[4:00:49] I don't think we have facilities conducive that are readily available to lease out to a non-profit or for profit
[4:00:57] for any organization. I think we don't have that kind of space available. So I guess what the
[4:01:03] speaker said is she's identified properties that we have that have facilities that can
[4:01:10] house birds. I'm unaware of that at this point. So I'd have to get with staff and maybe hector
[4:01:16] can we'll just go over one more time at our next staff meeting to understand what this inventory
[4:01:22] is that that has a building that's thousands of square feet that's for
[4:01:27] burnt, you know, that we can use for birds. I don't know if one.
[4:01:31] Just a related comment. It's possible. I think it might be wise,
[4:01:35] actually, to look at a workshop agenda in the relatively near future,
[4:01:40] look at all of our spaces that are vacant right now. I have no clue what we've
[4:01:44] got for space. Just to confirm what the Chairman's talking about. So we understand
[4:01:49] And I don't know what we have, what we don't have for primarily that's unoccupied and that we're holding on to for future needs, at least what we believe we're underneath.
[4:02:00] Yeah, because to the extent, if we do have any space and staff has identified it as a potential future need, we're not going to give that up and then try to get it back because it's not here.
[4:02:11] But I don't know what it is.
[4:02:12] Yeah, we'll have to take a look at that inventory. I'm just unaware of it at this time.
[4:02:17] There was a gentleman that spoke about the Pirate Harbor MSBU and I'm not being involved in their budget process, that doesn't sound right to me.
[4:02:25] MSBU is typically approved their work plan and go over the budget.
[4:02:30] So I'll just ask staff to add that to my those comments to our next staff meeting.
[4:02:34] I'd just like to understand what that gentleman was talking about.
[4:02:36] I don't understand that.
[4:02:38] I'll pinch your concerts.
[4:02:39] Yes, please.
[4:02:39] Thank you.
[4:02:40] I had to interrupt your survey.
[4:02:41] That's actually the top of my list and I neglected.
[4:02:44] So, I'm a little bit concerned about what they talked about, you know, they had the Seagras mitigation plan,
[4:02:49] they did everything they were supposed to do, they got pretty close to completion,
[4:02:52] then the storms wiped everything out, and then it's on them to replant everything.
[4:02:57] Well, staff, I spoke to staff at a staff meeting about that.
[4:02:59] If I remember it right, staff had said they tried planting, it didn't take,
[4:03:04] and they found that they were looking for an alternate program.
[4:03:06] I think they tried twice, and it didn't take.
[4:03:09] So, I understood that part of what he was talking about.
[4:03:11] So they came up with an alternate program to satisfy that mitigation.
[4:03:16] I believe something to that effect.
[4:03:18] This is Lewis is coming up.
[4:03:20] But I remember having that conversation with the sea grass.
[4:03:22] It's just where they're going to spend more money to plan an unsuccessful
[4:03:26] bed of sea grass.
[4:03:28] And it didn't make sense.
[4:03:29] I believe it was all those lines.
[4:03:30] Please correct me on that.
[4:03:32] Mrs. Lewis.
[4:03:33] Good afternoon for the record.
[4:03:34] Emily Lewis deputy county administrator.
[4:03:35] Commissioner, that's correct.
[4:03:36] I'm looking for John because he should be coming in.
[4:03:39] But, yeah, staff is actually in agreement with the MSBU on this act and has been advocating with the agency for relief from what we consider to be over burdensome and potentially then not following their own rules.
[4:03:55] There was a meeting scheduled with the EP I believe last Monday this Monday.
[4:03:59] It was canceled due to weather, but I'll let John speak a little bit further.
[4:04:03] Thank you, Commissioners, for the record, John, your last public work structure.
[4:04:06] So to Emily's point, we do concur with a lot of sentiments from the folks there.
[4:04:11] We share the frustration.
[4:04:14] At the end of the day, we got a judge permit.
[4:04:18] The judge permit had certain requirements that we had to meet to include some
[4:04:22] Seagrass mitigation.
[4:04:23] The Seagrass mitigation didn't go as well.
[4:04:26] But we're bringing other folks in to include Brandon and people on our team and
[4:04:30] and others to basically like, hey, can this be, can this count as the mitigation over here
[4:04:36] because the area that their, that their ice latent didn't, to Emily's point didn't do well.
[4:04:41] So we agree with a lot of what they're saying and we're doing everything we can. So when you
[4:04:46] heard about the charges, there's ongoing work that we're still doing with that and we're, and I think
[4:04:50] we met with them this week. I don't know what the outcome was. We were slated to meet last Monday
[4:04:55] and we couldn't meet with them.
[4:04:58] The gentleman that spoke at the second.
[4:05:00] There, he give us a list of questions and he wants us to answer and we're going to go through that. It's extensive list, but again, we kind of concur with a lot of the sentiment that they have.
[4:05:08] Yeah, and I think the biggest thing was he said they weren't involved in the budget process for their own MSBU. I don't know how that could be.
[4:05:14] I don't know either, but we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll make sure that we're getting as transparent as we can be.
[4:05:18] Yeah, Mr. Constance. Yes, thank you, sir. So, you know, I guess the problem is if the environment is not appropriate for sea grass, because the east wall is a losing sea grass. And that's exactly where there's supposed to be replanting.
[4:05:29] And they're really throwing good money after bat.
[4:05:32] It's just not going to work, so don't penalize that.
[4:05:34] So I'm glad to hear.
[4:05:36] Staff is on their side in degrees.
[4:05:38] And I don't think any of us disagree with that.
[4:05:41] Let's keep this moving forward.
[4:05:42] And can we please get an update in about a month
[4:05:44] and give us, you know, at maybe under administration,
[4:05:47] comment or something.
[4:05:48] But we just got to stay on top of this.
[4:05:50] And I want them to know they're being heard
[4:05:51] and that we're following up.
[4:05:54] Another challenge we've had.
[4:05:55] And we've dealt with this with a lot of different things,
[4:05:57] just at a high level here.
[4:05:59] We get technical experts in the community and there are technical experts like people.
[4:06:04] This is what they've done and they want to provide input and want to be as part of the
[4:06:08] negotiations but we can't really let that happen so we're trying to let them be part of it
[4:06:13] but we're also in dealing with the agency they're like we're the applicant.
[4:06:16] They have to talk with us so that's one of the challenges that we're trying to strike a balance
[4:06:20] and work through.
[4:06:22] Thank you.
[4:06:22] Yeah, there was also a comment on the Pulti project and the quote unquote agreement that's
[4:06:29] required with the state to grant an extension. I had a public discussion here from this
[4:06:34] diet, specifically asking the county attorney if we're violating any kind of statute.
[4:06:40] And if I remember right, Mr. David, you can correct me. My understanding is it's not defined
[4:06:47] on what an agreement is in that particular section on granting an agreement.
[4:06:51] And some counties throughout the state have a formal process where it comes back to the board.
[4:06:55] Some don't.
[4:06:56] And the agencies accept those extensions from staff to their staff.
[4:07:01] That was my understanding.
[4:07:04] That's correct.
[4:07:04] That's a good summary.
[4:07:05] Thank you.
[4:07:06] So as far as doing something illegal on the extension, would you disagree with that?
[4:07:13] Well, because we're being accused of doing things illegally on extensions.
[4:07:17] I'm David County Attorney.
[4:07:18] We're the counties in compliance with statute.
[4:07:22] Yeah.
[4:07:22] I understand that people disagree with that.
[4:07:25] A lot of times you put a couple of lawyers in a room, you're going to get the
[4:07:27] different answers, but it's hard as a county's answer is that we're in compliance.
[4:07:31] I think the statements were, we kind of dropped the ball on following up on that, but
[4:07:35] like I said, it was discussed publicly.
[4:07:37] I asked that same question, and then I actually threw out to the board members.
[4:07:41] Do we want to change our policy and make it so it does come to the board for approval
[4:07:47] for extensions and we wanted at that point there there weren't three headnotes so we just kept
[4:07:52] it as it is. It's an administrative thing on the extensions. Just to let you all know the
[4:07:58] junior commission program is kicking it off I'll be taking the lead this time around on that.
[4:08:03] We're setting updates we're getting out emails that enough any other commissioners for the next
[4:08:07] time around if we're going to do this on rotation. I know I did the first one commission
[4:08:12] to the last two and it's back to me again, but you don't need to answer now. I'm just throwing
[4:08:17] it out there something to think about, so get ready for that that's coming around. I'm
[4:08:21] sure sure. I think boiled down to where you and I were going to bounce back and forth because
[4:08:26] nobody else really had a big interest in running a program. So if that's the way everybody still
[4:08:31] feels and that's what we'll plan on doing next year or take lead again.
[4:08:36] Also, I had, this was brought
[4:08:40] And the last year about our teleworking program and bringing people back to work.
[4:08:45] We went through an audit with the clerk and he made some recommendations to our administration
[4:08:52] on our teleworking policy and it's speaking recently at my last staff meeting with Mr.
[4:08:56] Four as he's implemented those recommendations and everybody's back to work except those
[4:09:03] who do not we don't have a space for now that CCU has the new facility there that we're
[4:09:10] people are back. So the only people who are working from home is some people from finance,
[4:09:15] we don't yet have that space available, we're working on it, and people who have a medical
[4:09:20] excuse to be working from home. And I believe was Commissioner Dordy who said he wanted to
[4:09:26] make sure that at least the board's policy was consistent with administration in terms of our
[4:09:32] department bringing everybody back to work. So I believe now we're ready to bring everybody back
[4:09:37] work. So I just wanted to put that out there, as far as working from home. I brought up
[4:09:45] at the last meeting, a copy of our travel budget over the last four or five years
[4:09:50] I understand everybody has it, but I'm not sure if staff had a clear head nod. I propose
[4:09:56] to roll those back to at least 20-22 levels.
[4:10:00] They went from roughly 500,000 to 900,000, a lot of it was CCU, but a little bit from each department.
[4:10:08] I just want to make sure it's clear that we're directing staff to bring something back to the board during this budget cycle
[4:10:14] to help curb those costs. Is that correct, gentlemen? Or did I get that wrong?
[4:10:19] Commissioner Director. Thank you, sir.
[4:10:21] I'm not sure we had headphones on that, but what I will say is, I think we need to take a look at it, workshop it, and decide,
[4:10:27] you know with administrations guidance which which of these because some of these programs are very important for the folks to get these accredited nations into
[4:10:35] continue the professionalism of the departments. So I'd really like to have an understanding of what they are so that we can
[4:10:42] do this with a scalpel and not a chainsaw. That's an excellent idea. I don't object to that.
[4:10:47] I actually asked actor at one point it was a while ago, you know, you bring me something back with your recommendations after you get with your directors and see what could be cut.
[4:10:56] So that we have had nods to bring that that you know, so we can work with a scalpel maybe it'll work shop bring that back
[4:11:03] Work shop. Okay, we've got five had nods. We've got scalples here
[4:11:09] Okay, we've got a long day with land juice. So I think whatever else I have I'm good
[4:11:16] Commissioner do I I'm going to circle back
[4:11:18] This is your fourth and last call
[4:11:21] Okay, all right, we're good. Okay, so that ends my comments
[4:11:25] And so we are now at a 2 p.m. land use agenda.
[4:11:31] Anybody giving testimony today on any of the land use items, if you're going to speak
[4:11:35] on consent or regular land use agenda, please stand up and be sworn and take your oath
[4:11:40] with the clerk.
[4:11:41] Anybody giving testimony, please stand and take the oath.
[4:11:45] Please raise your right hand.
[4:11:47] Do you solemnly swear the testimony that you're about to give?
[4:11:49] I need your right hand.
[4:11:50] Thank you.
[4:11:51] Do you solemnly swear the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth,
[4:11:54] nothing but the truth, please say I do.
[4:11:58] Okay, thank you.
[4:12:00] Okay, so I'm going to open up the public input.
[4:12:03] This is for land use consent agenda items only.
[4:12:06] That's VA1 through VA8.
[4:12:11] These are consent items.
[4:12:13] If you're here for the regular agenda items for land use,
[4:12:18] we'll get to those next.
[4:12:22] Okay, is there anybody wishing to speak on consent only?
[4:12:24] Please come forward, state your name.
[4:12:27] You will have three minutes, and I have Dr. Mary Ellen Kiss on V-A-2.
[4:12:37] Good question.
[4:12:38] V-A-2.
[4:12:40] Dr. Mary Ellen Kiss, representing the Brunster Accordor Coalition.
[4:12:46] The Brunster Accordor Coalition respectfully requests that the Board of
[4:12:51] on a commissioners defer approval of the proposed modification to the B.D. P.D. final
[4:12:59] detail, site plan, D.R.C. 25142, which would increase the development by 100 additional
[4:13:07] dwelling units, and this is Cassie of A.
[4:13:11] Other proposed units, 96, would be located within the coastal high hazard area, raising significant
[4:13:19] concerns about their potential impacts on the water shed, storm water management, and the drainage
[4:13:26] capacity of the surrounding area.
[4:13:29] We are particularly concerned about the existing homes along SRAM route, which directly
[4:13:34] adjoined the expansion area and may be especially vulnerable to existing in future flooding conditions.
[4:13:41] As the board is aware, the final burnt storage drainage report prepared by Kim Lee Horen has
[4:13:47] have recently been released. Our coalition is currently reviewing the report's findings
[4:13:51] and recommendations to identify the highest priority drainage improvement projects
[4:13:58] and to evaluate the corrective actions and launch from safeguards needed to address
[4:14:03] persistent drainage watershed and flooding issues throughout the corridor.
[4:14:08] Until that review has been completed, and the county has determined how it will be implemented
[4:14:15] three fourth recommendations, we believe would be premature to approve additional residential
[4:14:23] density in this area. Accordingly, we respectfully urge the board to defer consideration
[4:14:31] of this request and to refrain from approving any increase in dwelling units within existing
[4:14:38] developments, whether through transfers of density, reductions in designated flood mitigation
[4:14:45] areas or other mechanisms.
[4:14:48] Until these critical drainage and flood mitigation concerns have an adequately addressed,
[4:14:55] we do not think action should be taken to approve.
[4:15:00] Any of these expansion projects? Thank you.
[4:15:02] Thank you for comments, ma'am. Anybody else wishing to speak on consent items only? Please come forward,
[4:15:08] state-general, if the record, you will have three minutes. Okay, I'm seeing nobody rise.
[4:15:13] I'm going to go through the consent commission. Oh, wait a minute. Don't you?
[4:15:16] Don't you? I'm sorry. Mr. Richie, you're recognized.
[4:15:20] Just state, state, your name, and which item?
[4:15:24] Tim Richie, and I'm going to be talking about the exact same item Dr. Kis was just speaking about that's V-A-2
[4:15:39] V-A-2, what will do V-A-1 V-A-2?
[4:15:45] We're a lump of mull in there.
[4:15:48] You know, it was really interesting if you all were listening to the Metro Forecast earlier
[4:15:54] you know, we never heard we need a hospital. Now one word. And so I see in VA1 you want to
[4:16:06] do 204 units and then in VA2 you want to 100 single family lots and some 96 lots within
[4:16:15] the coastal high hazard area.
[4:16:22] We are right now the peace river and the myacca river with
[4:16:26] All the rain, which wasn't very much rain, everybody, is still, if the lowest water marks
[4:16:34] they've been in history, Commissioner Dordy, Commissioner Constance, Commissioner to
[4:16:38] say, oh Commissioner to X and Commissioner to H. Did you hear that? The lowest water
[4:16:45] levels ever. Now I just heard, you know, Brandon Moody's going to get involved and we're
[4:16:53] get this one and we're going to get that one. But what's the one common denominator? Commissioner
[4:16:59] Dordy? Why don't wealt the oysters take? I want everybody in this chamber in the county to hear
[4:17:08] this answer. They will not take because there is toxic, polluted water in the peace river.
[4:17:15] Now I have a friend of mine who made a comment the other day on one of my post on Facebook and he's been
[4:17:21] the peace river longer than any of you ever have he's had his children in the peace river
[4:17:27] the day they came back from the hospital and he can still water ski barefoot and you know he said
[4:17:34] the water color of the river has changed drastically why all every river is a different color
[4:17:43] from Tampa Bay to Charlotte Harbor.
[4:17:46] You know, why Miss Chow?
[4:17:48] Because of phosphate mining, discharging.
[4:17:52] Now you guys wanna continue to approve more houses.
[4:17:56] Guess what?
[4:17:57] There's 11,000 houses for sale right now
[4:17:59] in Charlotte County.
[4:18:02] How can you in with college educations?
[4:18:07] How can you rubber stamp more staff?
[4:18:11] You hear that? I'm not telling the commissioner, staff, robber, staff, and this stuff, and they're not following the rules.
[4:18:20] Because we are investigating the black and white, and you know what we're seeing?
[4:18:26] It doesn't add up.
[4:18:28] Thank you, sir.
[4:18:30] Thank you.
[4:18:31] Anybody else wishing to speak on consent items, consent land use?
[4:18:35] Okay.
[4:18:36] Seeing nobody rise, Commissioner Doge, anything to pull?
[4:18:38] Yeah, let's pull VA2 and talk about it.
[4:18:40] Okay, sorry, dv-82, commissioner, tru-x.
[4:18:45] Mr. Constance, nothing, sir.
[4:18:47] Commissioner Dordy.
[4:18:47] Nothing. I have nothing else to do.
[4:18:48] Move the balance.
[4:18:50] We have motion to second to move the balance.
[4:18:52] Is there any further discussion?
[4:18:54] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[4:18:56] Okay, the balance has been approved of consent.
[4:18:58] Commissioner Dordy, you pulled v-82.
[4:19:00] Mr. Shao, you recognized to present.
[4:19:02] Oh, it's quasi.
[4:19:04] Disclosures.
[4:19:06] Commissioner...
[4:19:07] Yeah, sorry.
[4:19:07] that my record.
[4:19:10] I can't convince you to trust.
[4:19:12] I can't convince you to.
[4:19:12] I can't convince you to.
[4:19:13] I can't convince you to.
[4:19:14] I'm a monthly staff briefing with community development
[4:19:17] of the county attorney's office and file my paper for this morning.
[4:19:20] I had my monthly staff meeting and I also received an email
[4:19:24] from Dr. Kiss and I filed my disclosures.
[4:19:52] You're recognized when you're ready.
[4:19:56] Whenever you're ready.
[4:20:12] I don't have a agenda, I think, maybe it's this one. I'm sorry. Good afternoon for the record.
[4:20:18] J.H.L. Community Development Department. This petition DRC-26-027 is a fine PD-final detail site plan.
[4:20:31] So, it's requesting a modification of PD-5.0 detail site print DRC25-142, approved for
[4:20:41] Cassier Bay, formula as cross-wing and previous, it's called simple life.
[4:20:48] And the proposed project consists of in coverage 96 knots within the coastal high-haz area and
[4:20:56] four lots within the Namco Stoha has area for total of 100 single family lots. So the entire
[4:21:04] project contains 6, 6, 8, 4, 3 acres and is located to the east side of Bernstow Road and
[4:21:13] we can come to district 2. So this is general location of the subject property and this is the
[4:21:20] image of the subject property at 4-inch. You can see that's located to east side of
[4:21:26] Bernstow Road. And this is 2026, EagleView image of the subject property. And the property
[4:21:35] is on the PD, so I just wanted to be aware. This project, this original PD was down in 2007,
[4:21:43] and they have five major modifications for this project.
[4:21:48] So they have single-family homes, have modular homes, they have the last time was done, which was last year.
[4:21:56] So the board approved PD rezoning for this site.
[4:22:00] The site has the development rights up to 230 units.
[4:22:06] And I believe last year, just transfer the density, I'm sorry, actually this year.
[4:22:12] in February, March, they just transfer 95 coastal high has a density because portion of the
[4:22:19] project is located within the coastal high has area. So, three years ago, they did transfer
[4:22:27] 2024 non- coastal high has a density to the subject property. The base density for site is six units.
[4:22:34] So last year, they did major modification. So they changed the layout of the PD concept plan.
[4:22:41] So there are portion of the density,
[4:22:45] we'll be locating the coastal high-heather area.
[4:22:48] So that's why early this year, they filed the TDIU
[4:22:52] and CSE, they certified the 95 non-c coastal high-heather density
[4:22:59] off the site and placed 95 coastal high-heather units
[4:23:04] onto the site.
[4:23:05] So that was done and approved by the board,
[4:23:08] by the resolution.
[4:23:09] So, basically, as of today, the site has six base density units which could be located in the coastal
[4:23:16] high-haz area, and 95 transfer the coastal high-haz density on the site.
[4:23:23] So, this is actually the phase two of this PD, so they are come for 100 units, 96 units
[4:23:29] will be located in the coastal high-haz area, and 4 is located outside coastal high-haz area.
[4:23:34] So, you can see this is the flood zone, you can see the flood zone 9AEX and D, the very
[4:23:42] flood zone.
[4:23:44] And this is the Cypren, which you can see to the left, this is the phase 1 for 120 units.
[4:23:53] And then this is the nearest one they are requesting for this major modification for the approval
[4:23:59] for phase 2.
[4:24:00] there will have 96 resident units will be located in the coastal high
[4:24:05] has area and four units will be located outside the coastal high
[4:24:09] has area and this final detail safe and compliance with all PD
[4:24:13] conditions. Commissioner do you have a question. Yeah I just want to clarify
[4:24:17] this. Right now the site is a total of 68 acres is that correct? Yes. What
[4:24:26] approved right now on that site. The PD is only approved
[4:24:31] site for up to 2030 units total. How many?
[4:24:36] 230. So they could go build 230 units on it right now.
[4:24:43] Yes. So they are coming for final detail site plan.
[4:24:46] That's approved by the PD. So it's already been approved for those units.
[4:24:50] Yes. Okay. And does this add another 100? If we approve this? No, because of your approved.
[4:24:58] That's over it. That 100's in.
[4:25:00] That it was a little confusing reading this, because it looks like we're adding 100 single family units to that.
[4:25:08] Yes, it's approved the 2030. They did the face 1, approved for 122 units, so this is for 100 units, so this is the face 2 for this experiment.
[4:25:18] Let me try. If we approve this today, they'll only be able to build 100, not 200, is that correct?
[4:25:27] For this phase is 100. For phase 1, the 122, which is green. So for whole site, if you approve today,
[4:25:35] there were built 222 units. But the PD resuming approve the residential drum rights up to 230 units.
[4:25:45] But that's already been approved, you said. Yes.
[4:25:50] And this does not add any units.
[4:25:53] No.
[4:25:57] What does this do?
[4:25:58] this is final pd final detail site plan
[4:26:02] according to 3-945 pd
[4:26:06] so you have pd concept plan
[4:26:08] the reason you're approval
[4:26:09] and they will come back to the board
[4:26:12] to approve the final details
[4:26:13] so what we do today
[4:26:14] has no effect on the number of units
[4:26:16] that's consistent
[4:26:18] you're correct
[4:26:19] all right thank you
[4:26:20] thank you sir
[4:26:23] are you done with your presentation
[4:26:24] Mr. Shao
[4:26:26] yes I'm sorry
[4:26:26] I didn't know if you had any more
[4:26:28] you're all done okay
[4:26:29] any questions for staff
[4:26:31] Okay, we're going to open up this item for public, well, we already had public.
[4:26:38] Yeah, now we did.
[4:26:39] That's right.
[4:26:39] That's right.
[4:26:41] Ever since we went to consent on lands, you said that.
[4:26:45] That's right.
[4:26:46] Okay.
[4:26:46] Anybody wishing to speak on this item.
[4:26:49] Please come forward, state your name for the record.
[4:26:57] Hi, my name is Samuel Turpinning, Charlotte County resident.
[4:27:01] I'm talking about the Sandy Shelmines and Charlotte County.
[4:27:04] No, this is for this item. If for VA 2 for the Cassia Bay.
[4:27:10] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. No problem. No problem.
[4:27:14] Anybody else who's going to speak on VA 2?
[4:27:18] Yeah, good afternoon, commissioners.
[4:27:21] Well, I'll tell you what. Everybody take a good look at this.
[4:27:25] Pulti.
[4:27:28] If you go online right now and you put in, do Pulti build quality homes?
[4:27:33] don't be shocked at what you read.
[4:27:40] I mean,
[4:27:43] do you know how many millions of gallons of
[4:27:46] water are used from pulp? Hearty, decetal, manatee, city of Northport, city of Pantagora
[4:27:54] in Charlotte County,
[4:27:58] and you guys actually think we have the extra water to give to
[4:28:06] these developers,
[4:28:10] corporate captured, corporate
[4:28:13] colonialism.
[4:28:14] That's what's going on here, everybody.
[4:28:18] Because truly at this point in time,
[4:28:21] unfortunately, one of the most intelligent
[4:28:23] man that ever used to stand before this chamber
[4:28:27] is not here.
[4:28:29] And that's Mr. Richard Russell.
[4:28:34] Mr. Richard Russell is a fountain of information.
[4:28:40] And what would he be telling all of you right now?
[4:28:43] You guys didn't listen to me.
[4:28:45] What was it three or four years ago?
[4:28:48] He was in here when he suggested the moratorium,
[4:28:51] a no more issuing of building permits.
[4:28:56] And you know what?
[4:29:00] We got C, C, D, B, I, A.
[4:29:08] We got tons of paid a plan in this county.
[4:29:11] And we have 11,000 houses for sale, and then you all want to come here, 95 houses are in the high flood coastal zone area, the flood plain area.
[4:29:24] Why would you guys want to approve something? Why would you want to approve any more housing development in the county?
[4:29:33] You know, I had a lovely talk with Dr. Pitz. I'm sure you all know Richard.
[4:29:40] He's not a dummy, you know what he and I talk about now, we don't talk about water quality,
[4:29:49] we talk about water quantity, and what's going to be available to all of us, and I want
[4:29:58] Everybody in this chamber in it
[4:30:00] In the county in the city to understand, do you want to know where we're all headed? We're headed to toilet to tap.
[4:30:11] Because our representation will not get in front of this.
[4:30:22] You refuse to help me save the peace in the My Act in Charlotte Harbor.
[4:30:27] You refuse for
[4:30:32] serious about it.
[4:30:33] You would tell Jennifer and seeing it.
[4:30:35] You're going to meet with Dan and you're going to meet with me.
[4:30:38] And we're going to come up with a plan.
[4:30:40] Not about money, and we come back to this, air, land, and water, air, land, and waters,
[4:30:50] what we govern here, and you know what, we've run out of guys, water.
[4:30:57] After this meeting, I have to head out to Disoto County, because of the moratorium vote
[4:31:02] on the AI data center.
[4:31:04] I wish I could be in Manatee County today, because they're having a moratorium vote on
[4:31:08] a-idata center and you know what they want to do they want to build a nuclear reactor to generate
[4:31:16] the power for the a-idata center they want to build a north port. Now I've just about
[4:31:24] have had it with the lack of action. We don't want to hear about change. We want improvements.
[4:31:34] We
[4:31:39] don't have the water guys, every time any one of us in this chamber do 10 to 50 prompts.
[4:31:50] That's one bottle of water, 550 milliliters, Dr. Constance.
[4:31:56] And do you know what it costs to send an email, attorney term?
[4:32:01] It costs a tall bottle of 850 milliliters of water.
[4:32:08] And you guys, you got to help us tell them no today, show all of us who voted for you guys that you're with us.
[4:32:19] Thank you.
[4:32:21] Thank you.
[4:32:21] Thank you.
[4:32:21] Anybody else wish to speak on this item.
[4:32:23] Please come forward.
[4:32:23] You'll have five minutes to date your name.
[4:32:25] This is on V-A-2.
[4:32:27] Cassie-A-B.
[4:32:35] Good afternoon Richard.
[4:32:36] Little Charlotte County residents.
[4:32:40] I believe that's what they call a final detailed site plan.
[4:32:42] up until six weeks, maybe two months ago, I had no idea what that is.
[4:32:48] I'm learning fast.
[4:32:50] This is more for the audience at home and even watching some TV.
[4:32:54] This is not the time to get involved because a final detail
[4:32:57] site plan comes with something called conditions.
[4:33:00] Unless you can, in, in peach, one of those conditions,
[4:33:04] this is going through, not just this development,
[4:33:07] every development afterwards, if it gets this far.
[4:33:09] Folks, if you want to rain in development in this county, you've got to get involved at the meetings far before it ever gets to the final detail site plan.
[4:33:20] Unfortunately, I think if there's no fault in the conditions here, this is going to be approved regardless of how many vacant lots there are.
[4:33:29] Because it's gotten to the final detail site plan.
[4:33:31] So folks at home get involved far beyond
[4:33:36] Let's get to a final detail site plan. Thanks for your time. Thank you sir anybody else wishing to speak on VA 2 please come forward
[4:33:42] State your name for the record you'll have five minutes
[4:33:46] Last call
[4:33:47] Mr. Chairman I see no one else rising and move to close public input second motion exactly close public input is ready for the discussion
[4:33:54] Is there any opposition to the motion public input is closed
[4:34:00] Commissioner Dordy Mr. Chairman
[4:34:03] move approval of A2.
[4:34:05] So, we have motion second to approve the A2, is there any further discussion?
[4:34:09] Yeah, I just would like to say, yeah, we are at final site plan review, which means it's gone through a progression of public hearings and meetings.
[4:34:17] I think if you look at the staff report, this was done in 2000. What was that again?
[4:34:23] When did it first come back? Was 2000.
[4:34:26] You first for a rezoning?
[4:34:27] Yeah.
[4:34:28] I'll give you two on seven.
[4:34:30] Yeah, two thousand.
[4:34:30] Two five times.
[4:34:31] Yeah, so yeah, this isn't new.
[4:34:33] It's come back.
[4:34:34] There's different iterations and some changes over the years.
[4:34:37] But I think one of the speakers that prompted this to be pulled,
[4:34:40] we weren't adding units in excess of what it was already approved for.
[4:34:44] I think that was the point that the board wanted to make.
[4:34:47] This is within the existing 230 units.
[4:34:50] It's not extra.
[4:34:51] It's what was already entitled to the property.
[4:34:53] So I just want to make sure we got that on the record.
[4:34:56] Is there any further discussion on this item?
[4:34:57] Is there any opposition?
[4:35:00] Hearing none, the passage unanimously, five to zero. We are now going to move on to regular land use, VB1, and that is quasi-judicial. I start to my left, Commissioner Dogech. Anything to disclose?
[4:35:15] Yeah,
[4:35:17] your microphone, sir.
[4:35:19] Yeah, I met with staff when I visited the site. No, there were some neighbors there. I don't recall their name, too. I saw it.
[4:35:25] Commissioner Director.
[4:35:26] No disclosure.
[4:35:27] Commissioner Constance.
[4:35:28] I received some emails and other information I've signed that it's disclosure documents.
[4:35:34] Commissioner Dorey.
[4:35:35] I have a lot, sir.
[4:35:36] I have my monthly staff briefing with community development, county attorney's office, and actually
[4:35:42] public works on this item.
[4:35:45] I also had a meeting with Richard and Susie Little, and they discussed they want to discuss
[4:35:51] many of the conditions.
[4:35:52] also the earth moving code 3-5-478 and 3-5-479 other items but that was the bulk of the
[4:36:02] conversation and yeah a numerous emails which I filed all of that this morning thank you sir
[4:36:10] yeah I also met with staff met with the littles and received numerous emails all of that was
[4:36:14] filed, and I filed my paperwork.
[4:36:18] OK, you are recognized, Mr. Shao, to present VB1.
[4:36:23] Good afternoon, for the record.
[4:36:25] J. Shao, Community Development Department.
[4:36:27] Regarding my planning, my qualification as a planning expert,
[4:36:33] I hold a bachelor's of architecture degree
[4:36:36] and a master of community planning degree.
[4:36:40] I have been employed by Charlotte County
[4:36:42] as a professional planner for more than 22 years.
[4:36:49] Southwest Engineering and Design is requesting application DRC 25-075, which is a PD-Final
[4:37:02] detail site plan approval for the water side restoration project.
[4:37:06] This project site contains approximately 293.31 acres and is located north of Burma Road in the East County, and the subject property is also located in Commission District 1.
[4:37:26] This is the area image of the subject property. This is 226 Egoview image of the subject property.
[4:37:38] and this is the area image of the subject property at 4-inch.
[4:37:45] The subject property is designated as raw committee mixed use
[4:37:51] and with the planned development reasoning.
[4:37:55] So I would like to provide a brief history of the property.
[4:37:59] This application was originally scheduled for consideration by the board on May 26, 2026, as a
[4:38:09] consent agenda item. As the board request, it was presented during the public hearing and
[4:38:16] subsequently continued to today's public hearing. That's why we're here.
[4:38:21] So, May 23rd, 2023. The board of county commissioners approved ordinance number 2023-020 for PD-only for approximately 740 acres, and the subject property for this PD-final detail stipend is the eastern portion of the property.
[4:38:47] And today's hearing is required by Sharkerny Code Sections Redash 945 Plan Development to ensure that the proposed PD-final detail side print is consistent with adopted PD-conditioned content in adopted ordinance number 2023-020.
[4:39:11] So, specifically, on the screen is approved and adopt a PD-convishing A, which says that the
[4:39:21] development consists of two phases as shown on the proposed Genopity concept plan.
[4:39:29] So, I would like to clarify the use of Phase 1 and Phase 2 in this PD-Resony is solely for
[4:39:37] location purposes, and it's not intended to represent the conventional,
[4:39:43] commercially phasing of the project.
[4:39:50] So approved and adopted PD condition be listed permitted activities
[4:39:55] and uses in phase one.
[4:39:58] So there are a total of...
[4:40:00] 7 permitted activities and uses. You can see on the screen the first one is a restoration project, and
[4:40:07] specific states that final detail-siping approval is required prior to the commencement of the restoration project.
[4:40:16] And shall be limited to a term of 10 years, calculated from date of the final detail-siping approval.
[4:40:25] And number two, a banded orange growth to be restored with native trees and other story vegetation.
[4:40:35] And item three, a native plant nursery located in the area identified as nursery and tree farms.
[4:40:42] You can see on the approved PD concept plan.
[4:40:46] And number four, removing the old-century trees and excavating the area to remove, remove soil depleted from decades of agriculture use.
[4:41:00] And number five, refining, failing waste, moached vegetation to create compost for replanting native trees.
[4:41:10] And number six, stockpiling of excavated materials will be located in the area, identified as stockpile and the maximum height of the stockpile shall be no more than 30 feet.
[4:41:27] And also the last one is accessory uses, including by not limited to office, scale house and staging and equipment storage area.
[4:41:37] and also approved an adopted PD condition C.
[4:41:43] Listed the existing permitted activity and uses in phase two,
[4:41:48] so you can see there why existing moturing operation is part of an approved existing commercial
[4:41:55] activation permit.
[4:41:58] And I want to point out there's a approved and adopted PD condition D,
[4:42:03] specifically requires that a PD rezoning is required in order to implement the approved rule
[4:42:11] committee next use master plan to have a mixture of residential and commercial uses on the
[4:42:19] totally 740 acres. So for this final detailed PD final detailed site plan is only for the
[4:42:25] eastern portion of the subject property for the restoration project.
[4:42:32] So you can see on the screen
[4:42:33] It shows approved GenrePD concept plan which to the left and also the proposed PD-Final
[4:42:41] detail side plan.
[4:42:43] So, you can compare it to them, they are substantially consistent with approved GenrePD
[4:42:47] concept plan versus proposed PD-Final detail side plan.
[4:42:56] So the results of the soil testing as required by approved PD-Final condition J are included
[4:43:03] in the file number three. And also a proved PD condition L wall being forced only if the
[4:43:12] applicant removes the excavated material from the prompting.
[4:43:20] I tried to point out I kind of
[4:43:22] jump to talk about condition, but there is a couple of slides you can see that is the
[4:43:28] restoration plan, you can see the site, for entire site and they will have the restoration
[4:43:34] project more focused on the center area and you can see they plan to have
[4:43:39] three cells for this restoration project. So this is cell one and this cell two
[4:43:46] and cell three and this is after this is done this is the site at you will be
[4:43:52] prepared for the future rule company mix use by the time they must come to
[4:43:57] board for a PD rezoning.
[4:44:02] So this is also shown the site and the mitigation plan to reduce the sound, odor, dust,
[4:44:12] as required by approved PD condition M is included in the file named 13 App Commitigation
[4:44:21] Plan.
[4:44:21] So, the African has provided noise mitigation measure and older preventing and response measures and dust suppression and air quality protection and also the provided service and groundwater monitoring plan.
[4:44:42] So, the updated TIS traffic impact study is also part of the BCC package for this application and the file name is nine underscore water side excavation TIS.
[4:44:58] And the history of
[4:45:00] The hurricane traffic for the subject property is also part of the BCT package and the file name is 10 underscore African hurricane traffic.
[4:45:10] The applicant has also submitted a waterside soil and water quality memorandum, which is included as 511 of the BCC package for this item.
[4:45:22] The transcript for May 23, 2023 BCC Adoption Hearing for the PDE Resolving for the subject
[4:45:31] property is also attached as file number 12.
[4:45:36] So it is staff's professional pinning that proposed PDE final detailed site plan
[4:45:42] compliance with the adopted PDE conditions.
[4:45:46] So I'm available to answer any questions you may have.
[4:45:50] Thank you.
[4:45:50] Thank you. I had Mr. David in the queue. Thank you.
[4:45:54] Yes, you recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[4:45:55] Kind of a Tom David, kind of attorney.
[4:45:57] This is a little bit of an unusual circumstance here.
[4:46:01] So I've got a couple of housekeeping items that I want to make sure we get into the record.
[4:46:05] Generally when we continue a hearing, we do not go back through the presentations again.
[4:46:11] But the board directed staff to essentially start over.
[4:46:15] So this is more like a re-hearing than a continuous.
[4:46:18] But any event, what that means is that the applicant will get another opportunity to put
[4:46:24] into the record.
[4:46:25] The fact that it feels important to its case, there will be an opportunity for the public
[4:46:30] to make comments within the same rules that we generally apply for these types of hearings.
[4:46:36] I also want to have David Muscozo come up, our Assistant County Attorney, and to read
[4:46:41] into the record, the standard of review for a PD site plan approval.
[4:46:46] It's different from zoning. We don't go back and redo the zoning analysis. This is just to implement the site plants. I'd like to have that place in the record Mr. Chair with your
[4:46:56] accordance so we can have a clean hearing. Thank you. There's no objection from the board you recognize sir.
[4:47:02] Good afternoon. David was close with Susan County attorney. The item before the board is approval or denial of the final detail site plan. This is not a re hearing of the prior rezoning or general PD concept plan.
[4:47:13] The applicant bears the initial burden of showing that the plan complies with the comprehensive
[4:47:17] plan applicable regulations and legal requirements and the approved PD conditions and
[4:47:23] concept plan. The board may consider the evidence relevant to those criteria and may resolve
[4:47:29] factual conflicts in the record. If the applicant satisfies the applicable criteria,
[4:47:34] the board may deny the plan only upon competent and substantial evidence identifying specific
[4:47:40] unmet criteria. The board may not deny the plan based solely on generalized opposition or renewed
[4:47:46] disagreement with the previously approved PD entitlement and it may not materially amend the
[4:47:51] end entitlement through the final detail site plan review. Any proposed modification must proceed
[4:47:56] under the code's major or minor modification processes as established under the county code.
[4:48:01] Thank you. Thank you, sir. We stand ready, Mr. Chair.
[4:48:05] answers many of the questions we got a lot of stuff over the trance from the last month or so so we're available to answer those questions
[4:48:12] and you'll pose into us we'll have some answers for you and if we don't we'll try to figure out a best way to address those questions.
[4:48:18] Thank you. Okay, thank you sir. Any questions for staff before we move on to the applicant? Okay, the applicant please.
[4:48:25] Well, you recognize there. I just took Mr. David.
[4:48:29] Yeah, we had some discussion on this before, maybe Tom can help me out on this.
[4:48:37] This is a restoration project as part of this, but then we were told, as I recall, the
[4:48:47] last time we talked about this, that there was nothing that needed to be restored because
[4:48:54] there wasn't a problem with the soil being contaminated. Is that correct?
[4:49:01] Mr. Chair, if you mind it's time to have county attorney. What I would recommend
[4:49:05] is that we give the applicant an opportunity to address your questions. If you have questions
[4:49:10] for them, they will be the best ones to answer those questions. And if not, we can have staff
[4:49:14] to address those questions.
[4:49:15] I have just one question. Was there a traffic study you said?
[4:49:19] Yes, you do have one of the traffic study.
[4:49:22] How many vehicles per day did they identify a program?
[4:49:27] I can't remember, but the driving.
[4:49:29] Because part of the reason I'm asking that is,
[4:49:33] I went out to the site, and I drove Burmont Road.
[4:49:38] And unless you really have to, you don't want to drive Burmont Road.
[4:49:43] We dropped the speed limit there because we were concerned with safety.
[4:49:47] I think the speed limit was 45.
[4:49:51] I was doing 50 to 55 and these used trucks were like blowing me off the road.
[4:49:57] And if there's going to be a mining...
[4:50:00] Operation, we don't have the traffic study, I guess, to look at, but traffic studies in the record.
[4:50:08] What's the traffic studies in the record?
[4:50:10] That's why it's warning how many trucks per hour, because if there's a mining operation, the
[4:50:16] ones that I'm familiar with, you could have seven, eight, ten trucks an hour going in and out
[4:50:22] of, they are pulling in and out of that site, adding to the, now you know we can't deny it
[4:50:28] across the traffic, I'm just concerned about public safety
[4:50:31] because that road is busy all the time.
[4:50:36] And to add another hundred trucks in and out
[4:50:39] might be a safety issue.
[4:50:41] I don't know if that's involved here or not.
[4:50:45] Mr. Chair, if I may, I think the best thing here
[4:50:47] would be to allow the applicant to address it.
[4:50:49] You've raised the questions.
[4:50:51] I think they have some comments to that effect.
[4:50:53] You can also ask staff the traffic engineers in the back.
[4:50:56] You have any specific questions on traffic that he's here to address that, but I would recommend
[4:51:00] that we let that go.
[4:51:01] We may be in check on it.
[4:51:03] I'll have to listen to them.
[4:51:04] Thank you, sir.
[4:51:05] But maybe we can check on the number of how many trucks per hour would be in and out of that
[4:51:11] property and for how many hours a day, because usually I know mining operation, there's a
[4:51:17] lot of traffic.
[4:51:19] All right.
[4:51:19] Thank you.
[4:51:19] Thank you, sir.
[4:51:21] Okay.
[4:51:22] The applicant is now recognized to present.
[4:51:28] There's a handout that'll be okay. We'll start when you start talking. I'll start. Well, he's doing the hand. Okay. No problem. Robinson. Big W law. I have been sworn in first and foremost. We accept Miss Shao as an expert for this hearing.
[4:51:43] I'd like to start by making sure that we all recall why we're here.
[4:51:48] There's a May 9th, 2026 memorandum from Mary and Frank Zoning Supervisor to the Honoural
[4:51:55] Board of County Commissioners, regarding DRC-2075 final detail site plan, water side
[4:52:01] phase one restoration, where they final detail site plan approval for water side phase
[4:52:08] one.
[4:52:08] The site is designated as a rural community mixed use, final detail site, consists of clearing
[4:52:14] approximately 293 plus or minus acres of citrus grove and restoring approximately 63.37 acres
[4:52:21] to a depth of 13 feet. The excavation will be backfilled and compacted back to existing grade
[4:52:28] plus or minus 2 feet. This area will be green open space and restored with several different
[4:52:33] natural vegetative communities and is consistent with the county's comprehensive plan and existing
[4:52:38] PD conditions. The memo goes on that the final detailed site plan complies with all conditions,
[4:52:45] as well as being in compliance with the final approved concept plan. And the final detail
[4:52:50] site plan has been approved through the site plan review process. It's proposable not create
[4:52:55] any concurrency issues and based on the analysis. Conclusion set forth herein in staff's
[4:53:01] professional opinion. The application is generally consistent with Charlotte County's
[4:53:05] comprehensive plan, Charlotte County's code of laws and ordinances, and other applicable guidelines.
[4:53:10] This is simply a project where land waste was brought in during the after the hurricanes.
[4:53:20] That land waste was turned into mulch that was then turned into compost.
[4:53:26] The site will be excavated to remove the existing soil and some shell, and we placed with
[4:53:32] composed mixed with sand that's removed.
[4:53:36] I thank you Commissioner Constance for requesting a transcript of the original hearing
[4:53:39] because I was not the attorney at the original hearing, but there was a lot of talk during
[4:53:44] that our previous hearing in May on how the board was misled being told that the site was
[4:53:50] contaminated and needed to be excavated.
[4:53:54] Fortunately, at the end of the transcript is a glossary of all the terms and every time
[4:53:58] term is used. It's gives the page number and the line number. The word contaminate is used once
[4:54:05] when our expert for soil testified that they will wear gloves when doing the soil sampling
[4:54:13] so it's not to contaminate the soil. Contamination was never mentioned otherwise. We have met
[4:54:18] all of the conditions for the approval of the final detail plan approval. We have met all the
[4:54:25] conditions of the approved PD and we ask for your approval. Mr. Bane will continue.
[4:54:35] For the record, Gary Bane, Southwest Engineering, and I have been sworn.
[4:54:39] Mr. Bane, can you pause this time for a minute?
[4:54:42] I'm sorry.
[4:54:42] I just want to make sure this hand out. This is for the official record.
[4:54:46] Yes, it is. This is correct.
[4:54:49] So how we met the PD condition.
[4:54:50] Commissioner Constance, you're in the queue.
[4:54:52] Thank you.
[4:54:52] So I don't have a problem with the applicant and their rights.
[4:54:56] I guess my problem is that this telephone book was just handed.
[4:55:00] There's absolutely no way that I can look through this hang on and consume it. And also, there's no way that the public had access to this prior to the meeting for them to be able to review it to make comments on it.
[4:55:15] So this puts us in a very difficult position because all handouts, all items that we were supposed to be that are supposed to be displayed and looked at are supposed to be part of the electronic record prior to the meeting.
[4:55:28] So I object to this. I don't know if I want to have this thrown out or if I'm going to suggest that we have to
[4:55:33] re-here because the the public is entitled to review this, it's, it's, it's, it's just a summer of basically what
[4:55:44] J is reading before. Okay. I'm just, it's just a summer. That's, that's all it is, it's the PD conditions.
[4:55:50] Yeah. Commissioner Truex. Yeah, I was just going to say if you look at the tabs, you'll notice it just talks about all
[4:55:57] to be the conditions that we already have that information on.
[4:56:00] You have no more deep vision.
[4:56:01] It's just organizing.
[4:56:02] It's just organizing laid out.
[4:56:04] So it's no different information than what's actually available.
[4:56:07] It's just laid out more readily.
[4:56:09] Correct.
[4:56:09] Review a format.
[4:56:11] Yeah.
[4:56:11] I went through the first couple of tabs.
[4:56:12] And it just appears it's how they format it.
[4:56:15] What we already have just for easy tabulation.
[4:56:17] I guess to get to it.
[4:56:18] If you want them to look up.
[4:56:19] Go ahead.
[4:56:21] It's basically for ease in this hearing.
[4:56:23] If a condition is brought up.
[4:56:25] you have the exact language of that condition and the response.
[4:56:29] It's to make the hearing easier for you guys if you have questions.
[4:56:35] Can I have this response?
[4:56:36] You still have the question.
[4:56:37] So, if that's the case, again, this wasn't prepared today.
[4:56:41] Why didn't you include this and hand this over to staff and have them put a digital copy online?
[4:56:47] Because, you know, I understand, it just doesn't, it just doesn't.
[4:56:52] put it part of my presentation and the presentation became way too long as only entitled to
[4:56:57] 20 minutes and to go through everything, all the PD conditions, I just don't have the time
[4:57:03] to get that.
[4:57:04] So I just wanted to organize what we submitted for DRC.
[4:57:07] I just wanted to publicate could they not have submitted this to be added as an attachment
[4:57:12] to this item?
[4:57:13] I mean, I just came up with it last week.
[4:57:16] So, can I just make an appointment?
[4:57:18] Thank you.
[4:57:18] point well taken on transparency I think anytime we're handed something the public's entitled
[4:57:24] to see what we've been handed in advance so yet in the future we'll just load it up on
[4:57:29] our website if you can do a digital format it's just to be another exhibit so we're covered
[4:57:34] and I don't think and I'll have to have the attorney weigh into your other point commissioner
[4:57:38] consensus I think of an applicant wants to submit something for the public record I don't know
[4:57:42] if we can deny that I think they're entitled to submit for public record you're talking to the
[4:57:48] The hearings that we have generally are people allowed to submit documentation, we've taken several documents as we've been here today.
[4:57:57] So that is generally the process.
[4:57:58] I'm just a Mr. Chair.
[4:58:00] So I think that the applicant, if it's part of his case in chief, he's allowed to present this as part of his evidence.
[4:58:09] And to your point, I think today we've had at least two or three handouts that I'm trying to go through in the middle of the meeting that the public doesn't have, but I do.
[4:58:17] this just happens to be a little bit thicker.
[4:58:19] Yeah, Mr. Chairman, to your point, I don't look at those, I listen.
[4:58:22] Yeah. And if I need to go back at some point, I will look at them.
[4:58:26] But, like every other thing I get today of, it's pretty hard to go through it.
[4:58:29] But I did understand how it was organized, and I just want to bring that up.
[4:58:32] Okay, the applicants recognize that continue. We'll start your time.
[4:58:35] All right. Good afternoon, commissioners. I just want to clarify a couple things.
[4:58:39] The slide presentation. I had to fix a couple of the slides that there were out of order,
[4:58:43] but the same slides, just a little bit different or just like three or four slides.
[4:58:47] Thank you for giving us the opportunity to come back and present the project in more detail.
[4:58:52] When this item originally was scheduled, it appeared on your consent agenda quite frankly.
[4:58:57] I wasn't prepared to give a full presentation, because I didn't think one was necessary.
[4:59:02] Looking back, I actually glad we're here because it gave me the opportunity to go back,
[4:59:06] watch the BOCC hearing from three years ago, review testimony, and really think about what was the biggest misunderstanding surrounding the project.
[4:59:15] Before I begin, I'd like to clear up one point.
[4:59:17] We never represented that the soils on this property were contaminated.
[4:59:21] During the planning and zoning hearing, a concern citizen asks whether the property might
[4:59:25] contain contaminated soils.
[4:59:29] Rather than debate the issue, we agreed to have the soil tested.
[4:59:32] So we retain, David Browner, our hydrologist, to write specifications for testing the soils
[4:59:38] for abandoned citrus grows.
[4:59:40] And that is actually how PD Condition J came about.
[4:59:43] Today, we have done exactly what we promised.
[4:59:46] The testing has been completed, the reports have been submitted, and the collusion is exactly
[4:59:50] what we expected.
[4:59:51] The soils are not contaminated.
[4:59:55] What we have consistently said during the hearing was that the property has operated
[4:59:59] As you can.
[5:00:00] Commercial Citrus Grove for decades. And lack the nutrients to grow habitat we were looking for. Like so many
[5:00:06] grows throughout selfless Florida, citrus greening, canker, alt and altum in the recent hurricanes,
[5:00:12] brought the end to this operations. That is why we're here today. Back in 2 next slide. Back in 2011,
[5:00:20] the property became part of an approval community mixed use. The overall plan and compass approximately
[5:00:25] 740 acres with roughly 250 acres being used as a commercial Citrus Grove.
[5:00:32] Next slide.
[5:00:34] Years later, after the concept plan was approved and after all the hurricanes, we
[5:00:38] asked ourselves a simple question.
[5:00:40] If a significant portion of the property is required under a future land use designation,
[5:00:44] RCMU to remain permanently open space, why leave it as an abandoned Citrus Grove?
[5:00:50] Why not restore it to something that provides a long-term environmental benefit?
[5:00:53] The question became, back question became the foundation of this project.
[5:00:58] Next slide.
[5:01:01] The restoration area before you today is roughly about 63 acres with another 25 acres of landscape
[5:01:07] burns that will still need to be constructed.
[5:01:10] Next slide.
[5:01:12] The project is, this project is not about water side,
[5:01:14] disposing of contaminated soil.
[5:01:16] It's about restoring an old citrus operation that has reached the end of its productive life.
[5:01:21] Next slide.
[5:01:23] Next slide, Jay.
[5:01:25] Thank you.
[5:01:25] The concept is actually pretty straightforward.
[5:01:28] Our goal was to create a project that helps fulfill the vision by replacing depleted
[5:01:33] soils from the Citrus Grove with Florida and that native habitat that future generations
[5:01:38] can enjoy.
[5:01:39] Next slide.
[5:01:40] Back in 2022, 23, our county was faced with the aftermath of Hurricane EM.
[5:01:48] The county along with FEMA decided that instead of using the county's own landfill for
[5:01:52] exposing of yard waste debris, why not look for a facility that's already permitting saving
[5:01:57] the county's airspace, saving the county's airspace, water side fit that bill, and it
[5:02:03] is a permanent facility with FDP to receive yard waste and locked clearing debris.
[5:02:08] We took in approximately 600,000 yards of mulch and landscape debris within the county during
[5:02:14] that time frame, next slide.
[5:02:16] Instead of viewing the material as a waste, we saw an opportunity through composting, blending
[5:02:22] with native soils, and then that material could be part of a long-term restoration project.
[5:02:28] Once complete, the property would be replanted with native communities including OCamic,
[5:02:34] Pine Flatwoods, Citrus Trees, and Meadow Habitats.
[5:02:38] In our view, this project solves several problems at once.
[5:02:42] we store to form a citrus grove while creating a permanent natural preserved that is consistent
[5:02:48] with the county's long-term vision for this property. And it saw the county's dilemma from
[5:02:53] hurricane-eing using water side to dispose of the county's mulch instead of using their own facility.
[5:02:59] The next slide is here are some drone photos that one of the commission's
[5:03:04] asked for giving you a better view of the facility. Just go with them real quick. This is
[5:03:09] The southwest property corner, kind of looking northeast, you can see all the debris starting to get overgrown,
[5:03:16] but the operation is further into the middle of the site next slide.
[5:03:20] Same angle, just looking towards the north a little bit, next slide.
[5:03:25] This is the operation itself. You can see the win-rows of compost, the mulching operation, logs mean separated,
[5:03:33] and are excavator and ground right over there. Next slide.
[5:03:38] This is from the East property boundary looking west, the restoration area we sit right in
[5:03:45] the center of this.
[5:03:46] So this property, but four or five years ago, we decided, you know, the grove was done
[5:03:54] because it can't occur in citrus and you can see that really on the north end and on
[5:04:00] the west end, like nothing has really growing there, it's green, but it's not there's
[5:04:06] sand everywhere, nothing is really growing. Next slide.
[5:04:12] This is the property looking from the
[5:04:14] north east corner looking, looking west, next slide. This is from the north west corner,
[5:04:24] next slide. This is from the same north west corner looking west and you can still see where
[5:04:30] the mulch is right there in the all and brown and then in the far left corner you can see the
[5:04:36] operation. There's more stacked debris piles to the top of your left screen there. Next slide.
[5:04:46] So during the, and that's the drone footage, during the planning and zoning and BEOCC
[5:04:50] hearing, several technical questions were raised regarding groundwater and soil testing.
[5:04:55] That was required under PD, condition J. I'd like to ask David Brown to summarize a reason.
[5:05:00] Results of the testing that was performed.
[5:05:16] Next slide, please.
[5:05:19] My name is David Brown. I'm the national practice lead in hydrogeology for my company of respect.
[5:05:26] I have over 40 years of professional experience in Florida and I'm a certified professional geologist.
[5:05:32] Today I'm going to go through some of the soil and water quality data that was collected on the subject property.
[5:05:38] If you look at this slide, this is an aerial map.
[5:05:41] You can see some locations in the center.
[5:05:45] These yellow orange-looking symbols.
[5:05:47] Those are within the excavated area, the restoration area,
[5:05:50] and that's where soil samples were taken.
[5:05:53] There's two green circular symbols up in the upper right.
[5:05:57] That's where surface water quality samples were taken
[5:05:59] in the hydraulic barrier.
[5:06:01] And then there are also, there's a blue dot that's off-site to the north that says
[5:06:06] W1, monitor well number one, where ground water sample was also taken.
[5:06:14] Surface water sole samples were collected by Southwest Engineering Design in 2022, 23 and 25,
[5:06:21] the largest site project.
[5:06:22] Laboratory results indicate that surface water and groundwater quality have remained generally
[5:06:27] stable with low nutrient concentrations, and that's indicative of the depleted soils
[5:06:33] that have been here.
[5:06:33] This is a citrus grove, they betted the citrus, they basically inverted and flipped the soils
[5:06:39] on site.
[5:06:40] It's been farmed for decades, so it wasn't surprising that we saw very, very low organic material.
[5:06:49] At neutral pH, analytical results are a consistent with previous sampling events.
[5:06:53] The soil analysis detected no pesticides, petroleum hydrocarbons, volatile organic
[5:06:58] carbons or BOCs or semi-volatile organic compounds and our metals were present and only
[5:07:06] at concentrations that are represented of natural background conditions.
[5:07:10] The elevated TDS, which is total dissolved solids, is natural to the area, elevated iron.
[5:07:17] We did have elevated gross alpha and radium were identified and well in W1.
[5:07:22] I'll get to that in a minute.
[5:07:24] However, these constituents are interpreted as naturally occurring geologic and geochemical
[5:07:28] conditions common throughout Southwest Florida, and they're not project-related impacts.
[5:07:35] Next slide.
[5:07:36] It's across section that I drew, and you can see MW1 on the left side.
[5:07:41] MW1 has 35 feet of casing, so it's basically monitoring a five-foot zone from 35 feet to 40 feet.
[5:07:48] Much deeper than the proposed excavation.
[5:07:52] When you get down to that point, stratographically, you're nearing the top of the confining unit.
[5:07:57] The confining unit, it's also known as the Hawthorne group.
[5:08:01] The Hawthorne group is rich with phosphate.
[5:08:04] That's what they're mining in Polk County, is the Hawthorne group.
[5:08:07] So we're approaching that top.
[5:08:09] That's a reworked area.
[5:08:10] So you still have some slight phosphatic material within that rework section.
[5:08:16] So that's what that will.
[5:08:17] MW1 is monitoring.
[5:08:20] Also, I put a dash line on there that you see horizontal.
[5:08:23] That's the approximate depth of the excavation of 13 feet.
[5:08:26] Again, it's 20-something feet above the zone that's being monitored by MW1 and then I superimpose kind of a graphic of what the hydraulic barrier ditch is there about 6-10 feet on site
[5:08:38] and that's for two of the surface water quality samples we're taking.
[5:08:41] So this illustrates that the water quality that we saw at MW1 is the monstrous tip of groundwater at a much deeper elevation down right on top of that confining unit.
[5:08:50] So anyone that looks at NW1, please do not confuse that water quality or those constituents
[5:08:57] is occurring at the depth of the excavation because they do not.
[5:09:01] The water quality we didn't have radio nucleos or any impacts in the surface water or
[5:09:06] the shallow samples that were taken.
[5:09:09] So again, I want to make sure if you read my report, make sure that you look at that, that
[5:09:13] those indicators of gross alpha of radium 226-228 in uranium are from that deep monitor
[5:09:19] well, and are from right above the Hawthorne group
[5:09:21] settlements.
[5:09:23] Thank you very much.
[5:09:24] Thank you.
[5:09:27] I continue on next slide.
[5:09:29] Jay, we're going to save the few extra slides for
[5:09:33] the bottle keep going through.
[5:09:35] Next slide.
[5:09:36] Next slide.
[5:09:37] Next slide.
[5:09:38] Next slide.
[5:09:39] Right there.
[5:09:40] The remaining portion of the presentation is more
[5:09:43] straightforward.
[5:09:44] The address PD conditions LNM.
[5:09:46] For condition L, we have already received our
[5:09:49] the county store model permit and we will work with staff to determine what if any other
[5:09:54] permits are needed.
[5:09:57] Next slide.
[5:09:58] No, sorry.
[5:09:59] That's like that's it.
[5:10:00] For a condition M, on April 29, 2025, last year, I submitted a project narrative where I stated, we received our FDEP Guardways permit, and that FDEP permit was also submitted to the county on the same day.
[5:10:15] On page 2 of the permit, it lists the general permit conditions, and in that section is where I submitted the operation plan for the facility to the DEP.
[5:10:23] the operation plan, much like the county's operation plan, and similar approved operation plans
[5:10:28] throughout the state covers the criteria you were looking for in PD Condition M. As you
[5:10:34] direct it, I pull the information from the operation plan and our environmental impact statement
[5:10:39] and submitted it to the county for your review. Desk control is addressed every day through water trucks.
[5:10:46] Water side maintains the hall roads daily with a loader grater. They have a streets sweeper
[5:10:51] that sweeps the entrance on Burmout Road as necessary,
[5:10:54] and they make additional operational adjustments
[5:10:57] during dry and windy conditions.
[5:11:00] These are enforceable commitment commitments
[5:11:03] under this PD-condition and also under the FDP yard
[5:11:07] waste permit.
[5:11:09] Next slide.
[5:11:11] Most of the construction of the restoration area
[5:11:14] occurs below grade, which actually
[5:11:16] reduces the sound emitted from the equipment.
[5:11:19] The existing berms and proposed berms
[5:11:21] once constructed will provide additional sound attenuation.
[5:11:24] These burns will eventually become the landscape
[5:11:26] burns you see in larger developments that surround
[5:11:29] subdivisions and there are approximately 8 to 10 feet high
[5:11:32] and about 80 to 100 feet wide.
[5:11:35] Operation is limited daytime hours only, usually 7 a.m. to 330
[5:11:39] and currently we are not open on the weekends and we haven't
[5:11:42] been for quite some time.
[5:11:44] Next slide.
[5:11:47] Oh to control.
[5:11:48] I just want to also want to make one point very
[5:11:50] because I know there's been some confusion regarding this matter.
[5:11:54] Waterside is not a bio recycling facility.
[5:11:57] And I know in the operation plan that it states that we can accept it,
[5:12:01] but in the same sentence, it's also states, and I quote,
[5:12:05] or remove it from the facility within 48 hours of receipt.
[5:12:08] In the 12-year history of Waterside,
[5:12:12] as Waterside's operation, we have never accepted human waste,
[5:12:15] biosolids, animal waste, or similar materials.
[5:12:18] that requires a whole different level of monitoring and recording that type of operation
[5:12:23] and procedures is not in our current operation permit.
[5:12:27] And that's simply not what this project is.
[5:12:30] The only material we have ever accepted is clean vegetative debris, trees,
[5:12:35] limbs, brush, landscape, material, and mulch.
[5:12:39] And because it's not a biosolar facility,
[5:12:41] odor generation is fundamentally different.
[5:12:44] We are processing vegetative material only.
[5:12:46] When drills are managed correctly, more sure is controlled and missing systems will be utilized to control odor if needed.
[5:12:54] This type of operation is also subject to FDEP oversight.
[5:12:58] It's mixed slide.
[5:13:01] Visual screening, existing and proposed berms combined with native landscape,
[5:13:06] create an effective visual buffer.
[5:13:09] And as I stated, the berms are approximately 8 to 10 feet high,
[5:13:12] 80 to 100 feet in width.
[5:13:13] The restoration area will ultimately become a permanent native habitat greatly improving the long-term
[5:13:19] appearance of the property. These are the commitments we have already been incorporated into our plans,
[5:13:26] our permits, and our day-to-day operations. And on February 18th, 2026,
[5:13:32] Waterside had their annual site inspection with the FTEP and the FTEP found the facility to be
[5:13:37] in compliance with the operation plan that explicitly addresses those conditions, and that was
[5:13:43] in one of the submittals that we did earlier.
[5:13:47] We're all happy to thank you.
[5:13:52] So with that, that would conclude our presentation.
[5:13:55] We obviously will reserve some time for a rebuttal after the public input,
[5:14:00] but we're happy to answer any questions at this point,
[5:14:02] or we can wait until after public input.
[5:14:04] Any questions for the applicant?
[5:14:06] Mr. Chairman.
[5:14:07] Yeah, I'll have a series of questions,
[5:14:09] but I think what I'd like to do is go through the public hearing process,
[5:14:12] first here from the public, but I have a whole series of questions, primarily related to
[5:14:18] condition L, and the transcript that took place in 2023, and also the final order from
[5:14:24] the administrative judge, this testimony and all of that that I need clarification on.
[5:14:30] Okay?
[5:14:30] Would be happy to select you.
[5:14:32] Okay.
[5:14:33] Any other questions for the applicant?
[5:14:36] Okay.
[5:14:36] Now we're going to open up the public hearing portion of the meeting.
[5:14:40] anybody wishing to speak on this item. Please come forward to your name for the record. You will have five minutes.
[5:14:56] And just before you start up before I start your time, we have sounds like...
[5:15:00] We're going to have a lot of speakers on this item. So please let's practice some good decorum. Don't interrupt a speaker with clapping or things like that. If you support with a speaker saying, just hold your hands up. It's a great visual. We can see that and we can keep the meeting going. So I just want to lay out the ground rules there. So who's ever first? You're recognized for five minutes. State your name for the record.
[5:15:31] operating operations in Charlotte County, primarily on Earth, quartz, sand, fossilized shells
[5:15:36] and limestone's aggregate. However, local soils can contain trace-heavy minerals like
[5:15:42] titanium, zycorn, and saturate. When the soil shall rock clay and sand disturbance from excavation
[5:15:50] can naturally at least trace-redoactive elements like uranium and radium that decay and take
[5:15:56] rate on gas. Trace levels of uranium and radium naturally occur in Florida soils and limestone
[5:16:02] foundations. The primary thread from nearby sand pits is erosion and high turbidity,
[5:16:08] cloudy water, a fine sediment, or storm water run off breach retention boundaries and inner
[5:16:14] shell creaked the peace river in Charlotte Harbor. Digging up or shifting earth at local extraction
[5:16:19] sites can redistribute these underlying natural minerals and heavy metals closer to the surface.
[5:16:25] Now, right on 222 is an invisible gas produced by radioactive decay of these natural radium
[5:16:32] and uranium elements present in the local geology.
[5:16:35] During recent local zoning and planning hearings, such as opposing opposition meetings
[5:16:40] regarding proposed sand and fill operations along Burma, Rotten, Washington, Luprode, citizens
[5:16:46] groups, Dr. Rob Robbins, retired Colonel Mary Tippedin, Tim Richie, and many other Southwest
[5:16:53] floor environmental advocates have been protesting these.
[5:16:58] Drinking water protection because Shell Creek and Peace River service vital drinking water
[5:17:03] sources for tens of thousands of citizens in Charlotte County and neighboring counties
[5:17:08] local zoning birds tightly regulate and frequently reject new mining permits near
[5:17:13] residential and water sheds zones to safeguard the aquifer and water integrity.
[5:17:18] Could we bring up one of the things from Miss Chow in there was saying how they had to remove the soil because it is not clean?
[5:17:30] Now let me tell you, we've had how many years has this orange grove been getting poisoned sprayed on it?
[5:17:38] Fertilizer synthetic fertilizer and poison to kill bugs.
[5:17:43] And let me tell you, they're going to go 13 feet. You know what usually happens, what usually happens is this.
[5:17:54] They go to 16 feet. Oh, oops. We went to 20 and the water monitoring well. Well, that's all we need to know because you know what's present.
[5:18:11] what I just read. Now you want to disturb this soil and then they want to
[5:18:19] compact it back. Magic wand and everything's fine. It doesn't work like that
[5:18:25] guys. It doesn't work like that at all and this is far too close to homes. This is
[5:18:33] far too close to shell Creek and I have to tell you we're not going to be
[5:18:40] permitting any more sand mines in East County, zero.
[5:18:45] We've been phosphate mining in this chamber.
[5:18:49] I personally led the charge with all five of you.
[5:18:54] Do I need to remind you that was the greatest day in Charlie County in a long, long time.
[5:19:02] You know why?
[5:19:03] Because you represented all of us.
[5:19:05] At that time, you were the hottest commission in the state of all 67 counties.
[5:19:15] Now, one other county could touch what you did.
[5:19:19] We need to be conservatives,
[5:19:25] not liberals, not liberal with our environment, not liberal with the children's future,
[5:19:32] Not liberal with the elderly's future. Not liberal with our quality of life and please turn this back up
[5:19:41] Because I can get way louder.
[5:19:46] Allity of life
[5:19:48] Again
[5:19:49] What day you guys want to go out with Captain Allen and me?
[5:19:54] I will take you out and I will show you
[5:19:59] The water
[5:20:00] Quality issues in this county.
[5:20:02] Want to make me at my house at six in the morning? Sunday?
[5:20:06] We won't be back till three or four.
[5:20:10] No. This is a hard no. This isn't a sock. No. This is a five is zero. No. No.
[5:20:18] There's a one word sentence with a period. Thank you, everybody.
[5:20:22] Thank you. Why did you put these tape recorders up here?
[5:20:25] I'd like to know. Why did you put these tape recorders up?
[5:20:28] I don't think that's our tape recorder.
[5:20:30] Okay.
[5:20:31] Please come forward.
[5:20:32] You'll have five minutes to date your name for the record.
[5:20:36] Courtney Mason, piece of resource.
[5:20:46] Commissioners, you have just heard the applicants attorney, Mr. Rob Bernstein,
[5:20:50] submit for the record, the June 24th, 2026,
[5:20:54] memorandum from Marian Franks, which states,
[5:20:57] this final detail site plan complies with all conditions,
[5:21:01] and the application, final detail site plan DRC,
[5:21:04] 25, 075 is generally consistent with Charlotte County's comprehensive plan, Charlotte County's
[5:21:11] Code of Laws and ordinances and other applicable guidelines.
[5:21:15] For the record, I believe the public testimony and documentary evidence presented today
[5:21:21] will demonstrate that the record does not establish that the final detail site plan,
[5:21:26] one, complies with all required conditions, two is consistent with the applicable Charlotte
[5:21:32] county code of laws and ordinances.
[5:21:35] And one last statement, please be careful
[5:21:37] approving mulch and compost pile projects,
[5:21:40] which are already on applicants property.
[5:21:43] As a wife of a wild-land firefighter,
[5:21:45] there have been many instances of fires
[5:21:47] starting from mulch piles.
[5:21:49] And we all know Burmaa Road is the last place
[5:21:52] where we would want that to happen.
[5:21:54] Please do not put your citizens
[5:21:55] and first responders and danger.
[5:21:57] Thank you.
[5:21:57] Thank you.
[5:21:59] Anybody want to speak?
[5:22:00] Please come forward.
[5:22:01] State your name for the record. You'll have five minutes.
[5:22:42] I swore to tell the truth for the record.
[5:22:46] Susie Little, started counting, resident. I swore to tell the truth and only the truth.
[5:22:56] Does that have any meaning here?
[5:23:02] In 2023, Jerry Westgler
[5:23:05] stated, the soil has been degraded by years of fertilizer and insecticide application with
[5:23:14] no proof.
[5:23:17] Just last month, Sean Collinon continued to call the soil contaminated in an email to
[5:23:24] The board with no proof,
[5:23:30] oops, sorry, we tested it and now the soil is only depleted, depleted, depleted, depleted, depleted, goes the echo chamber, did anybody read it, I did, I read the soil report, did anybody,
[5:23:56] The 2.3 soil quality management states, analytical results indicate the soil quality is generally
[5:24:05] representative of natural occurring conditions.
[5:24:13] And the analytical results do not indicate the presence of anthropogenic contamination.
[5:24:20] That means no human impact on the soil.
[5:24:27] The sole report 3.0 conclusions states, there is no evidence that historical citrus cultivation
[5:24:37] orange grow or other known on-site activities have resulted in significant impacts to the soil.
[5:24:45] The truth is, the applicant's own evidence does not establish the fact, factual predicate for the excavation they are requesting.
[5:24:56] I respectfully ask the board to deny.
[5:25:02] Thank you. Thank you for your comments, ma'am. Please come forward. You'll have five minutes. State your name for the
[5:25:07] record.
[5:25:09] Kerry DeHart, Burmont Road, Pana Gorda. DFC Jones, if you don't mind, I have a few handouts for the board, as
[5:25:15] well as to be entered into the record.
[5:25:56] Good afternoon, Chairman TCO and commissioners. Thank you for
[5:26:01] providing me this opportunity today for me to outline to you. Why DRC comment, number
[5:26:07] 7 has not been demonstrated to be satisfied.
[5:26:12] The DRC decision letter first establishes.
[5:26:16] The following comments must be met prior to submitting the final detail site plan.
[5:26:23] Section B, Roman numeral 1 of the PD, independently requires the conditions, comments indicated
[5:26:31] in the site plan of DRC-22-00125 letter indicates shall be met.
[5:26:43] One of those required comments is DRC decision letter number 7, which states the survey
[5:26:49] should be one year old or less.
[5:26:52] During the May 26th, 2026 hearing, the applicant's attorney, Mr. Rob Bernstein stated,
[5:27:00] and I quote,
[5:27:02] I was not the attorney on the original hearing,
[5:27:05] but coming in as an attorney reviewing what is before me,
[5:27:09] we have met the letter of the law,
[5:27:11] unquote.
[5:27:13] If the applicant asks the board to apply the letter of the law,
[5:27:18] Then DRC comment number 7 should be evaluated under the same standard.
[5:27:24] The survey should submit it with the final detail site plan, which I provided for you,
[5:27:32] identifies the field date of September 17, 2024, and a plot date of June 2, 2025.
[5:27:40] The survey distinguishes between the date the property was surveyed and the date the drawing was plotted.
[5:27:48] The field date establishes that the field survey was conducted on September 17th of 2024.
[5:27:56] Accordingly, although comment number seven uses the word should, the DRC decision letter states that the comments must be met, and the condition state that those comments shall be met.
[5:28:12] Based on the September 17th, 2024 field date, the survey was more than one year old at the May 26th, 2026 hearing.
[5:28:26] I, as such, I therefore respectfully submit that the applicant has not demonstrated compliance with DRC comment number seven.
[5:28:38] Thank you.
[5:28:39] Thank you for your comments, ma'am.
[5:28:41] Anybody who have some speak, please come forward.
[5:28:43] You'll have five minutes, sir.
[5:28:44] State your name for the record.
[5:28:50] Deputy, we have some handouts.
[5:28:54] Sorry about that.
[5:28:57] Get in your steps in today.
[5:29:26] Again, good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and commissioners.
[5:29:30] My name is Dwight Dean.
[5:29:31] I live in Prairie Creek Park from 170 residential property owners
[5:29:36] in our association.
[5:29:38] Prairie Creek Park is less than two and a half miles from this proposed
[5:29:41] mind site. The document titled PD Conditions for Application PD2214 identifies the comments
[5:29:51] and conditions that the applicant must satisfy before final detail site plan approval.
[5:29:58] Section B
[5:30:00] Roman numeral 1 states, quote. The conditions slash comments indicated in the DRC-22125 site plan review,
[5:30:11] decision letter dated August 29, 2022, revised September 20, 2022, shall be met in quote. My comments
[5:30:23] relate to this DRC decision letter specifically to comment number six, which states, quote,
[5:30:32] phase one is for restoration only. You'll find this on page one of the handout before
[5:30:41] you. Accordingly, in the required public notice for both the planning and zoning board and
[5:30:49] of County Commissioners, it states the project as one that would, quote, only allow for an existing
[5:30:58] growth to be restored to a preserve with native vegetation in quote. Additionally, the
[5:31:06] May 2023 staff report states that the purpose of the rezoning application is, quote, only to
[5:31:16] allow for an existing grove to be restored to a preserved, with native vegetation, in quote.
[5:31:24] The question before the board is straight forward.
[5:31:29] Has the applicant demonstrated that phase one is for restoration only.
[5:31:36] From the document provided by the applicant, entitled analysis of proposed 13-foot evacuation
[5:31:42] depth, excavation depth. He explains the basis for the proposed excavation. The analysis
[5:31:51] states, quote, the 13-foot excavation must be backfilled with compost at an average of 11 feet,
[5:32:00] with a remaining unfilled depth required for the planting of the restoration area in quote.
[5:32:08] In that statement, the applicant directly distinguishes between the portion of the excavation
[5:32:12] to be backfield with compost and the remaining depth required for planting the restoration area.
[5:32:20] The analysis then states, quote,
[5:32:24] the proposed 13-foot depth is necessary for the disposal of the mulch vegetative debris in quote.
[5:32:34] Please note, the applicant directly distinguishes between the depth required for planting the restoration area
[5:32:41] And the death he states is necessary for the disposal of the mulch vegetative debris.
[5:32:50] These are not my words. These are the applicant's words, and they're directly quoted.
[5:32:57] The same analysis calculates that the excavation will produce approximately 1.15 million cubic yards
[5:33:05] of sand and shell.
[5:33:07] The staff report also describes phase 1 activities that include excavation, backfilling, stockpiling,
[5:33:16] excavated materials, possible offsite transfer of excavated materials, and supportive operational
[5:33:23] facilities.
[5:33:24] These associated activities extend beyond restoration only.
[5:33:30] Finally, the applicant's testimony describes sales of excavated materials to pay for the Restoration Project.
[5:33:40] Clearly meeting the distinctive definition of commercial excavation, in other words, mining.
[5:33:47] Please understand this obvious conclusion is based entirely on the applicant's own
[5:34:00] Vegetative debris, the excavation of 1.15 million cubic yards of sand and shell, stockpiling, and the sale of the evacuated materials.
[5:34:10] Comment 6 does not state that restoration must be one of multiple purposes included in phase 1.
[5:34:17] It simply states, phase 1 is for restoration only.
[5:34:22] As you consider the petition before you, please, we urge you to decline the approval of the final detail.
[5:34:30] site plan. Thank you sir. Thank you for your comments. Please come forward
[5:34:34] station A for the record you will have five minutes. My name is Patty Casto. I
[5:34:38] reside in Charlotte County. I have documents to submit that I'd like
[5:34:43] included in the record please.
[5:35:07] Good afternoon, commissioners. I come for you today to request you to deny approval of the final detail site plan for DRC25-075, water side restoration project, because BD condition I has not been demonstrated to be satisfied.
[5:35:28] Condition I of the PD states the depth of the excavation activities associated with the
[5:35:34] restoration project shall be no more than 13 feet. The key phrase here is associated with
[5:35:41] the restoration project. Applicants own testimony demonstrates that the 13-foot excavation
[5:35:47] is not being driven by restoration. At the public hearing the applicant's representative,
[5:35:52] of Mr. Gary Bane of Southwest Florida,
[5:35:55] Southwest Engineering and Design testified.
[5:35:58] Quote, the justification for us going 13-foot deep
[5:36:02] is really to get rid of this debris, unquote.
[5:36:06] Applicants analysis of proposed 13-foot excavation
[5:36:10] death contained in the staff report,
[5:36:13] states that the property is already accepted
[5:36:15] approximately a half a million cubic yards of mulch,
[5:36:18] and then to anticipate receiving an additional one million
[5:36:22] cubic yards for a total of approximately 1.5 million cubic yards.
[5:36:29] The same analysis explains that the excavation will be back filled with compost to an average
[5:36:34] depth of 11 feet, leaving only two feet for the planting of the restoration area.
[5:36:42] Their own analysis groups and analysis describes the two feet as, quote, unfilled depth
[5:36:48] required for the planting, unquote.
[5:36:51] Another way to describe the analysis is 85% of the 13-foot depth is to accommodate vegetative
[5:37:02] debris.
[5:37:02] Those are nine, their numbers are not mine.
[5:37:05] If only two feet is required to establish restored native vegetation, then the remaining
[5:37:11] 11 feet of excavation exist to accommodate debris that is accepted under contract.
[5:37:17] Applicants own evidence therefore shows that the principal justification for the 13-foot excavation
[5:37:25] is debris management rather than ecological restoration.
[5:37:31] Condition I authorizes excavation activities associated with the restoration project.
[5:37:38] It does not authorize excavation whose primary purpose is to create disposal capacity for approximately
[5:37:44] one point five million cubic yards of vegetative debris. Based on the applicant's own testimony
[5:37:51] and supporting analysis, the evidence does not demonstrate that the full 13-foot excavation
[5:37:57] is associated with the Restoration Project as required by Condition I. For that reason,
[5:38:05] I respectfully request the Board to determine that Condition I has not been a satisfied
[5:38:10] and deny approval of the final detail site plan.
[5:38:13] Thank you.
[5:38:14] Thank you.
[5:38:16] Please come forward.
[5:38:17] State your name for the record.
[5:38:17] You'll have five minutes.
[5:38:20] I have handouts.
[5:38:25] Your exercise.
[5:38:30] Colonel Mary Ann Tippton, the United States Air Force retired
[5:38:33] Prairie Creek West.
[5:38:35] Good afternoon, gentlemen.
[5:38:37] These documents are being submitted in conjunction with my comments
[5:38:39] on DRC-25075, the TNV Waterside Restoration.
[5:38:45] Respectfully requested the materials be included in the hearing record
[5:38:47] and marked as received and identified as such.
[5:38:52] My presentation will address two of the PD conditions
[5:38:55] with a very close relationship today.
[5:38:58] First, PD condition Roman numeral four authorizes
[5:39:02] the excavation of depleted soils associated
[5:39:05] with the restoration project.
[5:39:08] Before granting final detail site plan approval,
[5:39:12] the record should contain evidence supporting the need
[5:39:14] to exercise that authorization.
[5:39:16] However, the applicant's own environmental consultant reports that the solar quality is generally
[5:39:23] representative of naturally occurring conditions, and that there is no evidence that
[5:39:28] historical citrus cultivation or other known on-site activities have resulted in significant
[5:39:35] impacts to soil.
[5:39:37] Those findings do not identify depleted soils requiring excavation if the applicant's own
[5:39:45] consultant does not identify depleted soils. I respectfully ask what evidence in the record
[5:39:52] supports exercising the excitation authority granted by condition 4.
[5:40:00] Condition is L. Condition L provides, and I quote, if excavator material is to be removed from the
[5:40:08] excavation site, required permits shall include a condition that the operation must comply with
[5:40:14] sections, 3-5-482, 3-5-490 and 3-5-491. Condition L begins with the word IF. However, there
[5:40:28] no dispute that the applicant intends to remove more than 780,000 cubic yards of excavated
[5:40:35] material from the site.
[5:40:37] The permit required by Condition L has not yet been issued because it cannot be granted
[5:40:43] until after approval of the final detail site plan.
[5:40:47] And the conditions that must be incorporated into that permit have therefore not been presented
[5:40:52] to the board.
[5:40:55] Accordingly, how can the Board determine that condition L has been satisfied when the permit
[5:41:00] containing those required conditions does not yet exist?
[5:41:05] And cannot be reviewed until after the final detail site plan is approved.
[5:41:12] Condition L effectively requires the Board to approve the final detail site plan before it
[5:41:16] has the opportunity to verify that the future permit contains the very conditions the board
[5:41:23] previously required. That raises a straight forward question. Does the board have sufficient
[5:41:30] information to determine that condition L has been satisfied? Thank you for your time.
[5:41:38] Thank you, ma'am.
[5:41:41] Do I have to sign this again?
[5:41:43] No, I think we get the name for the record. We're good. If you just state your name for the record,
[5:41:47] sure you have five minutes.
[5:41:49] It's more exercise.
[5:41:51] You got two sets on about if you would please.
[5:42:19] When we set my timer, it's only given me a minute,
[5:42:20] if it's a five.
[5:42:21] No, your time should say five.
[5:42:23] It doesn't.
[5:42:25] It does.
[5:42:25] Yeah, he just reset.
[5:42:26] Perfect, you're all set.
[5:42:27] Thank you.
[5:42:28] Good afternoon, commissioners.
[5:42:29] My name is Richard Little, resident Charlotte County.
[5:42:32] I was a really great question.
[5:42:34] Colonel Tipon just asked you.
[5:42:36] That was an important question.
[5:42:38] Does the board have sufficient information to determine
[5:42:40] in that condition L has been satisfied.
[5:42:43] Commissioners, my presentation concerns a threshold question,
[5:42:46] and that is, is this application being reviewed
[5:42:48] under the correct earth-moving ordinance?
[5:42:51] I believe the county's earth-moving permit application illustrates
[5:42:54] why that question should be answered before the final
[5:42:57] detail site plan is approved.
[5:42:59] For the standard earth-moving permit under Section 35478A6,
[5:43:03] which governs earth-moving for a passive park,
[5:43:06] the application requests, the application requests,
[5:43:09] completions of four sections had sections 2, 3, 14, and 15.
[5:43:14] Section 2 asks for general information.
[5:43:16] Section 3 asks for a general project information
[5:43:19] onto 14 is asked for some engineering information
[5:43:22] and then section 15 is just a signature line.
[5:43:26] What's equally important in that application
[5:43:27] is what it does not ask.
[5:43:29] It does not ask whether excavated material
[5:43:31] will be removed from a site.
[5:43:33] It doesn't ask whether excavated material.
[5:43:35] What it would be used for after it leaves the site.
[5:43:37] It doesn't ask whether the material will be sold commercially.
[5:43:40] It doesn't ask whether the proposed offsite use
[5:43:43] falls within another earth-moving permit ordinance.
[5:43:45] Commissioners, those missing questions
[5:43:47] are what I believe creates a permitting gap.
[5:43:50] I met with Joan Vernon, the county engineer,
[5:43:52] and move earth-moving administrator
[5:43:53] and asked a hypothetical question.
[5:43:56] I asked whether under section 35478
[5:43:59] can an applicant remove half a million cubic yards
[5:44:01] of material offsite and sell it commercially.
[5:44:04] Her response, we don't ask.
[5:44:08] We don't ask what they're going to do with the material.
[5:44:11] The application confirms that answer.
[5:44:13] It contains no question about the disposition of material coming off site.
[5:44:17] Unlike the applicant who just simply completes that permit application, the water side applicant
[5:44:23] answered those questions.
[5:44:24] They stated 68% or more than 780,000 cubic yards of material will be sold off site.
[5:44:30] At the May 26 hearing, Gary Bane testified the excavator materials would be used to go under buildings
[5:44:36] and things of that nature. Attorney Rob Burns, and summarized by stating,
[5:44:40] the field material has been depleted of nutrients, so it's good to use under buildings
[5:44:44] for road beds and things of that nature. Read McCow and Southwest Engineering design testified
[5:44:49] the excavator material we sold to generate revenue to pay for the project. Those are the applicant
[5:44:56] statement statements, not mine. Commissioners now compare that.
[5:45:00] The applicants testimony with what the county defines as commercial excavation. Section 3, 5, 479, a specific earth-moving permit, parenthesis G states. A commercial excavation supplies materials for road beds, such as four constructions, sites such as road beds or building pads. The applicant's own testimony describes excavated materials being sold for use under buildings and road beds to generate revenue.
[5:45:28] For the project, those activities appear consistent with the county's definition of commercial mining.
[5:45:36] Commissioners, this application presents a threshold legal question.
[5:45:40] The applicant has testified, again, more than 780,000 cubic yards,
[5:45:44] exgrade a material, will be sold off-site for use under buildings and road beds,
[5:45:49] and the sales will help fund the project.
[5:45:52] Section 35479G defines commercial excavation as one that supplies materials for construction sites including roadbids and building paths.
[5:46:02] If the board determines the applicant's own testimony places this project within that definition,
[5:46:07] then the PD application should be subject to 35479G Section 1 that says,
[5:46:14] the lot or lots shall be located in the rural service area and zoned EM with a mineral resource
[5:46:22] extraction on a flume designation. I respectfully submit the board cannot find this application
[5:46:27] consistent with the county codel laws and ordinances or find that all the comments and
[5:46:32] conditions in the planned development are satisfied. Thank you very much. Thank you sir.
[5:46:39] Say to your name for the record, you'll have five minutes.
[5:46:41] Hello, my name is Kelly Baumann.
[5:46:43] I'm from Engelwood.
[5:46:45] I was asked to come speak so that might leave you with the thought why.
[5:46:52] I'm fighting a big developer.
[5:46:56] Over a year.
[5:46:59] And I guess I really have a voice of caution.
[5:47:04] Your folks here are extremely educated with what's going on.
[5:47:09] The idea of these projects that go from 2007 to current, we think like, oh, everything's done, everything's taken care of, all the eyes are dotted and tees are crossed, I would challenge you, you're making the decisions for these citizens, they're coming to you, who do they have to look out for them and they're best interests, the neighbors in this area that they want to dig 13 feet,
[5:47:37] exposed rate on gases, interrupt the aquifer.
[5:47:43] We've heard what Tim has shared about the water,
[5:47:46] I mean, who can speak more intelligently about that.
[5:47:50] And we should listen.
[5:47:53] I have a huge development behind me with a buffer of 16 feet.
[5:47:58] And I can quite hear all the trucks when they were developing
[5:48:03] as if they were coming into my kitchen.
[5:48:05] So, an eight-foot buffer that the applicant presented is a joke.
[5:48:15] We've seen projects after projects for a percent, and I just plead with you, we're in
[5:48:23] a different time.
[5:48:24] There's so much threat to the livelihood of your residents, our community, Florida, the agriculture.
[5:48:37] Please caution, know what you're voting for, and your 2,000 page summary.
[5:48:45] Maybe read all of it, find print.
[5:48:48] And I was going to just mention things that need to be cautious of, but these residents know
[5:48:57] where this applicant has fallen short, and please listen, do the right thing.
[5:49:04] Thank you, ma'am.
[5:49:34] Point of information, Mr. Chair, I believe this meeting has set the record for the number
[5:49:38] of handouts from the public.
[5:49:40] Yeah, I think you're right,
[5:49:49] but we can accept these right, Commissioner?
[5:49:51] Okay.
[5:49:53] It's one to make sure.
[5:50:00] State your name for the record, you'll have five minutes. My name is Diane Heck. I'm a retired geologist in my career. Spanted many years working both in environmental consulting and for a major chemical company, both in the United States and outside the United States.
[5:50:15] I've done everything from soil sampling all the way through to dealing with regulatory agencies and compliance activities. And I've also worked on lots of geotechnical activities.
[5:50:25] I've looked at the applicant's various request actions and documentation from the perspective of what's consistent with sound environmental science and regulatory compliance and I have some things to share that I noted.
[5:50:38] We've talked a lot about contamination. The original application did request removal of soils, sand and shell, due to contamination.
[5:50:46] as we heard there's no evidence, and even if there was contamination in my experience,
[5:50:52] removal would be the last resort that an agency or anyone would pursue. It's too risky.
[5:50:58] Capping and other mitigations would be what would be done. And the agency would never allow
[5:51:04] the sale or use of contaminated material in general public activities. The current application
[5:51:12] request removal of soil sand and shell because it is depleted, again, we've heard where there
[5:51:17] is no evidence or data given of that depletion. Even if the soils were depleted, they
[5:51:24] should be doing what we do as homeowners, and that's bringing a couple feet of fertile soil
[5:51:30] for to plant your native vegetation. On a side note, when I was in consulting in Delaware,
[5:51:37] We were brought in to work on a project where a developer had buried, illegally buried, mixed,
[5:51:46] debris, vegetative debris with soil. After several years, they put it in pits. After several years,
[5:51:54] the methane gas was produced from the degradation of the, the biological material. It got into the
[5:52:00] This was a new housing development, a plumber found it through a flash ignition.
[5:52:06] People were evacuated.
[5:52:08] There was this was a big assessment remediation.
[5:52:12] There were significant mitigations, including putting ventilation systems into the people's
[5:52:18] the property.
[5:52:19] So it doesn't seem to be a good idea to plant 13 feet, 11 feet of vegetation, where I think there
[5:52:25] has been discussion that this would be a housing development, hopefully in the future.
[5:52:31] Florida DEP, the Environmental Resources Permit, known as the ERP, was just granted here
[5:52:36] in 2026. And regarding backfill, the ERP specifies only the use of clean debris and clean
[5:52:43] fill, which is defined. Clean debris means it's got to be inert, it's not vegetation. And
[5:52:51] The same thing is for clean fill, I mean, that's generally sand and dirt.
[5:52:56] So with the ERP conditions, vegetative material is not allowed to be placed in whole or blended
[5:53:02] with the soil and dispose of in excavations.
[5:53:08] There were materials on the website today, Ms. Kitsmiller, and this is also these conditions,
[5:53:15] the ERP condition is highlighted in her presentation, and also I think that there were, you know,
[5:53:23] this topic has come before you before, the ERP conditions were known at that time. I don't understand
[5:53:27] why they weren't brought forward to you during them. Also, the applicant does have a history throughout
[5:53:35] their operation of non-compliance activities and environmental regulatory violations, including the
[5:53:42] The initial hydraulic barrier ditches were not permitted, and so that had to be done after
[5:53:49] the fact.
[5:53:50] And I heard mention of the General Yard Waste Permit that expired March 16th of this year,
[5:53:56] and I didn't see in the record anything on the extension or a new permit.
[5:54:01] The applicant, as we've heard, the quantities, that's they intend to sell 79% of the
[5:54:07] sand and 66% of the shell that's getting dug from this pit.
[5:54:11] And again, there's no scientific reason or data that I can find for why this needs to be removed.
[5:54:18] So therefore, my conclusion is that the applicants seek to get around the legal framework
[5:54:23] and create unsafe conditions for their profit and avoid the expense of proper legal disposal
[5:54:29] of the landscape material. They've already been paid to manage. The solution is simple,
[5:54:35] follow through on what they were paid to do in properly disposed of the landscape material
[5:54:39] I'll say, I provided you with my qualifications and ask that you accept me as an expert on environmental remediation and related regulatory matters.
[5:54:47] Thank you.
[5:54:47] Thank you, comments.
[5:55:00] And there's seven copies, so. But there's thick.
[5:55:08] I promise commissioners, you've seen all of these pages except maybe the top ones.
[5:55:15] You don't get to speak today unless you have a handout. I know. So I've paid my dues.
[5:55:23] Well, I think when it's all said and done, there it comes. Oh, they went.
[5:55:28] I'm sorry.
[5:55:37] Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Percy Angelom. In 2023, you were told the water site
[5:55:42] site needed a plan development for restoration because it was impacted by orange grove operations.
[5:55:48] I don't care whether you search for the word contaminant. Look at the record as a whole.
[5:55:51] This was false and water side had no facts to support his claim.
[5:55:55] And the record of that hearing shows that that was why you approved this plan development.
[5:55:59] water side was going to dig out the impacted soil.
[5:56:03] Then you are misled again in May when you were told the soil was depleted.
[5:56:07] Testing in October 23 showed soil levels consistent with naturally occurring conditions,
[5:56:12] and that's a quote from Mr. Brown's own report.
[5:56:15] That report was filed with you in July, but they had that information since October 23.
[5:56:20] They knowingly misled you about depleted soils.
[5:56:24] So even though the soils are not an issue when water side has misled you twice, it's
[5:56:28] wants to dig it out to 13 feet and sell most of it.
[5:56:32] This, of course, is a mine.
[5:56:34] The 2023 hearing transcript in the case that you understood
[5:56:37] they could mine anyway because they were agricultural.
[5:56:40] You were misled.
[5:56:42] An excavation is allowed so it can store water for crops.
[5:56:46] This hole is going to be dry to be filled with waste.
[5:56:49] So it's a mine, but it doesn't have the right zoning for a mine.
[5:56:53] I looked at the 2023 test results for the site.
[5:56:56] Those results did not show contamination or depletion, but they did show that the samples were taken only 12 inches down.
[5:57:03] From my 25-year experience with environmental cleanups,
[5:57:06] these service tests would never have supported a plan to dig up to 13 feet for imagined contamination.
[5:57:14] Waterside has admitted to the state that it is a waste disposal facility, and by the way,
[5:57:20] everyone at the county besides community knows it's a landfill because that's
[5:57:24] contract with them as a landfill, but it doesn't have zoning for waste disposal and doesn't
[5:57:29] want to ask you for it. So how are they getting around this? The document at the top of the
[5:57:35] package I gave you explains it. In 2013, water-sides lawyer invented a way around the waste facility
[5:57:42] citing more nuts at its site next door by claiming that the waste was being used in berms around
[5:57:48] the excavation and could be permitted by a so-called administrative permit. The administrative
[5:57:53] department was not public and not approved by the board. She proposed this to county staff and that's what they did. Gary Baines submitted a barebones application and in 2015 Joanne Vernon sent a three line administrative permit letter. Those are the documents at the top of my hand on. Then in 2023 at the time of the hearings in this case water sides attorney reminded county staff about the 2015 letter and without coming to you or telling the public.
[5:58:22] But this time, Waterside was going to mind and landfill as part of a PD for restoration.
[5:58:27] They were using the PD process instead of the secret administrative permit and it worked.
[5:58:33] In 23, Waterside didn't tell you the site was in mind or a waste disposal facility and the county staff didn't either.
[5:58:40] And Waterside, by the way, isn't even complying with its own fake permit.
[5:58:44] Even though it wasn't supposed to under its operating standards under its permit,
[5:58:50] It's operating standards.
[5:58:52] It can accept pitressable waste.
[5:58:54] They tell us now they're not going to,
[5:58:56] but they're standards say they can.
[5:58:57] Petressable means decayable.
[5:59:00] It smells.
[5:59:02] And they're going to put that bottom of the dry hole.
[5:59:05] So this can never be used for irrigation.
[5:59:08] Not just in berms, as assumed by the administrative permit.
[5:59:12] So this was mining and waste disposal and water side
[5:59:15] persuaded you to approve it by at least three fundamental
[5:59:18] falsities. One, that there was contamination. Two, that it was a legal ag excavation.
[5:59:26] And three, that it was legitimately authorized to operate as a waste disposal facility when it wasn't.
[5:59:32] It's absolutely clearly within your power to reject the final site plan,
[5:59:36] which has nothing to do with restoration. And you should do so.
[5:59:40] But it's also within your power to determine that the 2023 approval for restoration
[5:59:44] does not authorize a mind or a solid waste facility and that the site is in violation of land use and zoning.
[5:59:52] The so-called administrative permit can't create an end-run around waste-siting ordinances.
[5:59:57] And my written filing describes the doctrine called fraud.
[6:00:00] On the court, which I believe you should investigate, as it means to finally nullifying the 23 decision.
[6:00:06] So, I ask that my email of last week with attachments which I just gave you, big accepted as exhibits to my testimony.
[6:00:13] And I also have provided you my qualifications as an expert. I practiced for 25 years in the area of landfill regulation and ways for mediation and environmental remediation.
[6:00:26] Thank you.
[6:00:27] Thank you.
[6:00:29] Edibration Speak, please come forward.
[6:00:30] State your name for the record.
[6:00:31] You will have five minutes.
[6:00:54] Good afternoon.
[6:00:55] My name is Camila Spicer.
[6:00:57] I'm a resident, a neighbor of this project.
[6:01:01] I've been here before.
[6:01:04] I am totally overwhelmed by the testimony of the people
[6:01:11] who are speaking against this plan.
[6:01:14] their intelligence, the levels of expertise these people have a lot of background history, the amount of effort that they have put into this, doing the research, finding specific testimony from the applicant, from previous hearings, the skill that it takes, to pull that stuff out, and put it into concise testimony,
[6:01:44] in less than five minutes, the understanding that they have of how you, the board work, and
[6:01:51] how these types of projects work,
[6:01:58] the amount, the science that they know, the background that
[6:02:02] they come from, all different types of education and history. I wish I could do that. I can't.
[6:02:12] I don't. They spell it out for you. They give it to you on paper. That's why you have all those
[6:02:16] they're saying. You don't have to listen to the whole thing again. Here it is. Spoon fed to you.
[6:02:29] We didn't ask for this. None of these people who have put all this immense amount of time into this.
[6:02:36] We didn't ask for it. We just moved to the country. We didn't ask for it at all. You guys asked for it.
[6:02:41] You guys went to a lot of effort to be here. Decide in this for us. A lot of effort. You've been here a lot of
[6:02:50] the whole bunch of you. It's your responsibility. You have a staff. We don't have a staff.
[6:02:56] We don't have fancy projections to show you. Everybody of us is doing the best we can.
[6:03:04] And I think that you owe it to us, the neighbors, the citizens who put in all this effort.
[6:03:10] I think that you owe it to us to not approve this.
[6:03:15] And I think that all these people who have spoken to you today deserve to hear your response.
[6:03:21] Thank you very much.
[6:03:23] Thank you for your comments, ma
[6:03:27] 'am.
[6:03:28] Name for the record.
[6:03:28] You'll have five minutes,
[6:03:31] sir.
[6:03:32] My name is Samuel Turpinning.
[6:03:34] And if I'm going to talk about this in a look a bit of a different way.
[6:03:39] Gay Brown is a regenerative agriculture and farmer.
[6:03:43] And he wrote the book, Dirt to Soil.
[6:03:46] So, if you don't want to read all of that stuff, maybe you should read the book about what dirt and what soil actually is and what we heard today is that all that exists is dead dirt, nothing grows.
[6:04:00] So, I'm here today to talk about a very specific word game being played with our community, our properties, and our pockets.
[6:04:09] When you sit down with the county representatives, the engineers of the project managers, they
[6:04:14] love to use a word, soil.
[6:04:16] They use it because it sounds professional.
[6:04:19] It sounds clinical.
[6:04:20] They talk about soil profile, soil analysis, and soil remediation.
[6:04:25] They stand in front of us with their clipboards and the report and their tests that show
[6:04:29] no chemical contamination and the soil.
[6:04:32] They smile.
[6:04:33] They shake their heads and they tell us everything is perfectly sick.
[6:04:36] But I don't see soil out there, soil is a living thing.
[6:04:42] Soil has nutrients, soil has structure, bones, moisture, and the biological power to feed a seed and grow a tree.
[6:04:54] What we actually have out there is dirt, plain, dead, ruined.
[6:05:00] Dirt. Let's stop using their polished vocabulary and start using some basic everyday common sense. Dirt is what you are left with when the life has been completely choked out of the ground. Dirt is what happens when having machinery crushes the earth into concrete, or when infrastructure failures drown the root systems, or when the fertile top layers of scraped away and replaced with nothing, but bear in clay and sorrow.
[6:05:30] And that brings us to the ultimate contradiction on one hand the county looks us and the
[6:05:36] eye and insists that the dirt is not a problem.
[6:05:39] They claim it isn't contaminated, meaning they didn't find an industrial chemical leak that
[6:05:45] triggers a multi-million dollar federal lawsuit.
[6:05:48] Because it doesn't violate a narrow legal loophole, they want us to believe it is healthy.
[6:05:54] But on the other hand, the county has authorized public tax dollars to fund a massive reclamation on the project.
[6:06:04] They are preparing to bring in heavy equipment, mobilize contractors and truck and massive loads of entirely new Earth just to plant a few trees that will die.
[6:06:15] Let alone where's the contaminated or the dead dirt going to go to go somewhere else and make something else dead?
[6:06:24] The dead dirt goes somewhere else that becomes dead land too.
[6:06:29] So you want to take dead land and move it somewhere else so it becomes dead land where you drop off that
[6:06:35] material
[6:06:36] It's common sense at this point ladies and gentlemen of this room and of the dyes
[6:06:43] So let's let that sink in.
[6:06:45] Let's look at the simple logic of that equation.
[6:06:48] If the ground is in broken, why are we paying to fix it?
[6:06:51] If the dirt isn't ruined, why can't a tree survive in it today?
[6:06:55] If I can't take a hole in my own yard, drop a root ball and watch it grow without a government-funded
[6:07:02] intervention, then that ground is dysfunctional period.
[6:07:06] We all know exactly what is happening here.
[6:07:08] The paperwork is being written to protect liability, not to reflect reality.
[6:07:14] The phrase non-contaminated isn't a clean bill of health for our land.
[6:07:18] It is a legal shield for the county.
[6:07:21] It's a way for them to say, look, we are fixing it.
[6:07:24] But don't you dare try to sue us for damaging your property value.
[6:07:28] Will common sense doesn't care about legal shields.
[6:07:31] Common sense says that if a machine stops working, you don't call it functional just because it isn't on fire.
[6:07:37] If a plot of land cannot support life, it has been ruined.
[6:07:41] Colleague, uncontaminated soil, while ordinary dump trucks of replacement earth is an insult to the intelligence of every single person in this room.
[6:07:51] We are glad the county has paid for this reclamation.
[6:07:54] Are we, it's the absolute bare minimum, what the hell is going on?
[6:07:59] Why would you want to spend the money, read the book, read the book,
[6:08:06] Mr. Brown read a book, wrote the book.
[6:08:09] His world renowned read the book.
[6:08:12] It talks about how you can regenerate land
[6:08:15] without moving it with earth machines
[6:08:18] in order to bring in more dirt
[6:08:20] that's only going to die anyways
[6:08:22] because 13 feet isn't low enough.
[6:08:25] Once it's contaminated, it sinks in.
[6:08:27] We live on a porous, limestone foundation.
[6:08:32] and all sinks into the aquifer and our water system.
[6:08:36] Thank you, sir.
[6:08:38] Please come forward.
[6:08:39] Stay tuned for the Recule F5 minutes.
[6:08:47] We're adding to the pile.
[6:08:53] I saw you do the pre-drop off on those.
[6:08:57] You must have been a former manager of a city one time.
[6:09:03] I've expected no less for me.
[6:09:10] You're recognized, sir.
[6:09:11] How are you, Nick?
[6:09:13] Very quick, Wes.
[6:09:14] My name is Howard Cueenett.
[6:09:19] I'm also speaking on behalf of David Northcut, who was unable to attend in person.
[6:09:25] Mr. Northcut is a certified analytical engineer and a voting member of the Institute
[6:09:30] at Transportation Engineers and relied on ITEs, own manuals and guidance in preparing information.
[6:09:38] Each traffic related document in this packet that you've received was previously provided
[6:09:44] to the board and relevant county staff.
[6:09:47] The mitigation plan, Rebottle, is now included as well, and we respectfully request that
[6:09:52] the complete package be accepted and entered into the hearing record as written testimony.
[6:09:57] Our concern is not that the applicant-
[6:10:00] Fail to submit a traffic study. Our concern is whether the record contains sufficiently current, representative, documented, and independently reviewed evidence for this board to rely on. Mr. North Cuts of correspondence identifies four central problems.
[6:10:17] First, the analysis relies heavily on averages and representative conditions, although the project
[6:10:24] materials acknowledge uneven truck activity, operation surges, pletuning and other
[6:10:30] variability.
[6:10:32] Second, the record does not clearly show the county's independent concurrency determination.
[6:10:37] Third, no project specific analysis has been identified concerning evacuation, emergency
[6:10:43] access root failure or post-storm recovery. Fourth, the record does not quantify the
[6:10:50] pavement life consumed by this heavy truck traffic, the resulting maintenance or
[6:10:55] reconstruction cost or who will bear that cost. Ordinary vehicle counts and passenger
[6:11:01] car equivalents do not measure pavement damage or taxpayer exposure. These are not
[6:11:09] requests that the board performed traffic engineering. They are requests that the board insist upon
[6:11:15] the basic requirement underlying any defensible technical decision. The applicant has submitted
[6:11:22] a mitigation plan, describing berms, water trucks, monitoring wells, maintenance programs,
[6:11:27] complaint procedures, operating limits, and corrective actions. Those measures sound as
[6:11:34] occurring. But they raise a separate question. Does the record provide a reasonable basis
[6:11:41] to trust that these promises will be followed, documented, and enforced? Much as a plan
[6:11:48] is written in future tense. Measures will be implemented. Personnel will monitor. Complaints
[6:11:55] will be investigated. Corrective action will be taken. Additional controls may be installed.
[6:12:02] And these are intentions, not evidence of performance.
[6:12:09] Questions have been raised regarding issues concerning prior permitting operations and compliance.
[6:12:17] The plan calls itself the water side yard trash disposal and composting facility, while
[6:12:23] other technical materials refer to a mining operation.
[6:12:27] The central principle is the same.
[6:12:31] A plan is not proof.
[6:12:34] A promise is not performance.
[6:12:37] A record must show performance.
[6:12:41] We asked the board to climb to rely upon unresolved analysis
[6:12:44] and unsupported future assertances.
[6:12:49] In a prior life, when an issue was raised
[6:12:53] as I worked in local government,
[6:12:56] Our response initially was, that's the way we've always done it.
[6:13:02] And sometimes it worked out where that was fine.
[6:13:06] Other times things needed to be changed.
[6:13:09] The process needed to be changed.
[6:13:11] And if we were too slow, we had egg on our face.
[6:13:17] The county's brand is delivering exceptional service.
[6:13:20] It's the mantra of the elected officials and county staff.
[6:13:26] Heck, it applies to all of us in this room.
[6:13:30] We all share an ownership in its performance.
[6:13:34] As you listen to today's testimony, we ask a basic question,
[6:13:40] has delivering exceptional service been realized by the applicant and staff
[6:13:45] and everyone else throughout this whole process.
[6:13:49] Based on the record presently before you, we respectfully request you to deny DRC-25-075 water-side mining operation.
[6:14:00] Thank you.
[6:14:01] Thank you, sir.
[6:14:02] In addition, speak please come forward.
[6:14:04] State your name for the record.
[6:14:05] You'll have five minutes.
[6:14:19] I'm meeting your requirement.
[6:14:22] Okay, you can speak then.
[6:14:23] Get the hand out.
[6:14:26] This is a record.
[6:14:29] Of course, hall.
[6:14:31] Thank you.
[6:14:35] Good afternoon. My name is Jerry Waxler and I have been sworn. I'm a licensed attorney and I practice
[6:14:40] land use and zoning almost exclusively for 35 years until my recent retirement.
[6:14:45] Shortly before our retired, I represented TMV properties Inc at the PD rezoning in 2023.
[6:14:50] But I am not currently engaged as their attorney for any matter, including today's final detail plan approval.
[6:14:56] I'm here today to refute accusations of n-
[6:15:00] This representation and deceit that had been repeatedly made by Percy Angelo. The Sanjalo makes
[6:15:06] essentially three claims. One, that water side has been operating at a legal mine. It has
[6:15:12] not. Bermut wrote partnerships application to rezone a portion of its property to excavation and mining
[6:15:18] was approved in August 2008. It applied for a group three excavation prior to the adoption
[6:15:24] of the middle resource extraction land use and was therefore grandfathered from the requirement
[6:15:29] to obtain a land use change.
[6:15:31] The Group 3 excavation was approved in March 2010 by the hearing examiner after a public hearing.
[6:15:38] At the hearing for TMV, we spoke about how the excavation that would happen on the
[6:15:43] rest of the restoration fell under your excavation ordinance 3-5-478 subs 6.
[6:15:50] It was a re-require, a standard earth-moving permit because it would be creating a passive park.
[6:15:57] That does not require approval by your administrative, by your
[6:16:01] earth-moving administrator.
[6:16:03] However, we agreed, offered at the hearing, and agreed that we would go
[6:16:07] through the regular permitting process with review and approval by the
[6:16:13] administrator to mitigate concerns about that particular excavation.
[6:16:19] The second claim is that water slide is operating a waste disposal
[6:16:24] landfill without commission approval and absent
[6:16:27] of public hearings.
[6:16:29] In 2013 and currently, your citing ordinance
[6:16:32] exempted from its provisions, the use of non-putressable
[6:16:36] solid waste material, such as jarg waste, for great improvements,
[6:16:39] done in conjunction with the building permit.
[6:16:42] I met with County Attorney Josh Moya and Community
[6:16:45] Development Director Ty Harris, obviously
[6:16:46] discuss back several years, to discuss the applicability
[6:16:49] of this provision to the yard waste processing facility
[6:16:52] that was being proposed for the Burmont Road Partnership, the TMV
[6:16:57] Property, Burmont Road Partnership property, actually.
[6:16:59] I followed up my meeting with an email recapping the discussions
[6:17:02] and providing requested additional information.
[6:17:05] All emails are public record.
[6:17:07] I clearly was not doing anything clandestine.
[6:17:09] We received a determination that the proposed perimeter
[6:17:11] berms would qualify for the citing ordinance exemption.
[6:17:14] An application was then submitted to amend the already approved
[6:17:18] excavation restoration plan for the approved excavation
[6:17:21] to include berms around the property.
[6:17:24] The modification was approved by Joanne Vernon.
[6:17:27] With that approval in hand,
[6:17:29] Waterside then had a permit that exempt the property from the
[6:17:32] citing ordinance.
[6:17:33] The excavation ordinance at Section 25489 states
[6:17:37] quote,
[6:17:38] modifications to an approved permit,
[6:17:40] and we had an approved excavation permit.
[6:17:42] Our approved or denied by the earth moving administrator.
[6:17:46] A public hearing is not required.
[6:17:48] Additionally, the current citing ordinance classifies a Yard-Trash-Processing Facility as a low
[6:17:54] impact facility, which is approved as a conditional use.
[6:17:58] No public hearing is required.
[6:18:01] Information about the exemption was provided as part of a PD application.
[6:18:05] There was no attempt to conceal the process and determination, compliant with the language
[6:18:10] of Charlotte County's LDRs.
[6:18:12] Allegations of misrepresentation and violations of the citing ordinance are demonstrably false.
[6:18:17] And finally, three, that there was an intentional misrepresentation that the proposed PD site was contaminated and needed to be excavated to 13 feet to remove the contaminated soil.
[6:18:29] As you've heard, in the transcript of the PD hearing, the word contamination appears once. On page 32, line 22,
[6:18:36] to redavid Brown describes how testors will wear gloves so as not to contaminate the samples
[6:18:41] that they will be testing for environmental contaminants.
[6:18:45] TMV was very forthcoming about the reason for the excavation to remove degraded, not
[6:18:50] contaminated soils, and to replace that with composted material.
[6:18:56] And for the death of the 13-foot death, on page 29 of the transcript, line 20 to 25, and page
[6:19:02] 30, lines 1 through 9, I state that the reason for the 13-foot excavation is to get rid of the hurricane
[6:19:09] eandibree and to stabilize roads. During the restoration, and to use that material is based
[6:19:14] for the roads that will ultimately serve the approval of the community. The transcript reveals
[6:19:18] truthful and transparent responses to thorough questioning by the sport about what was proposed for the
[6:19:23] site and why. What it doesn't reveal is any attempt to justify the excavation as a way to remove
[6:19:29] contaminated soil from the site. All three of Ms. Angela's claims that I and my colleagues
[6:19:34] engage in willful misrepresentation with intent to receive this board are easily proven
[6:19:38] false by both the language of your land development regulations and the transplants of
[6:19:43] the man. Thank you. Thank
[6:19:48] you.
[6:19:52] Anybody want to speak on this item please come forward. State your name for the record. You
[6:19:55] will have five minutes.
[6:20:12] I do all the handout. Well, then you can speak.
[6:20:16] One moment.
[6:20:27] I'll lend you a handout.
[6:20:29] Yeah, and doubts on loan.
[6:20:32] Thank
[6:20:45] you.
[6:20:46] Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Deserri Rebus and I live immediately to
[6:20:49] adjacent to the applicant's sign and I have been sporting.
[6:20:53] I've been fighting this for four years and I just wanted to thank you to everybody that
[6:20:56] showed up. It's incredible this community. I must say that. I just want to say you guys are amazing.
[6:21:02] I request that this entire index packet containing exhibits 1 through 8 be formally entered into the official record for today's proceeding.
[6:21:10] And I'm asking you to deny this proposal due to unresolved legal factual and environmental failures.
[6:21:16] First, the applicant has a severe history of noncompliance.
[6:21:19] During our FDEP administrative hearing, we learned that they operated for 27 years unpermitted while conducting solid waste disposal and excavation.
[6:21:27] This history must weigh heavily on whether they could be trusted to comply with future conditions.
[6:21:32] Second, this is a commercial mine, not a restoration, and exhibit three of their own
[6:21:38] FDEP application they explicitly say and I quote proposed is a mine that will provide material
[6:21:44] to private and public developments in the surrounding area.
[6:21:47] The project narrative estimates 1.146 million cubic yards will lead the site.
[6:21:53] Under Charlotte County Code Section 35477 subsection G,
[6:21:57] supplying material for off-site cell requires mining and resource extraction zoning,
[6:22:02] which has not been demonstrated here.
[6:22:05] Furthermore, if their traffic impact statement estimates 2.768 million cubic yards,
[6:22:10] more than double their own narrative.
[6:22:12] If the applicant cannot consistently define their project scope,
[6:22:15] the county cannot accurately evaluate its impacts.
[6:22:18] Third, the applicant proposes using guard waste mulch and compost as backfill
[6:22:23] labeling it clean fill. As you know, Percy already mentioned, that is not considered clean fill. Under Florida Statute
[6:22:30] Section 403.703, your trash is solid waste regulated by Florida's solid waste laws in chapter 62-701 of
[6:22:39] the Florida administrative code. Calling it clean fill does not change the law. Fourth, exhibit six on your paper there.
[6:22:46] Contains the applicant's own hydraulic modeling showing a withdrawal of approximately 1.85 million gallons of groundwater per day from the aquifer.
[6:22:55] Given our ongoing drought conditions, there has been no modeling on how this massive withdrawal will impact nearby private drinking wells.
[6:23:02] Fifth, the applicant proposed is using an online agricultural ditch as a hydraulic barrier located less than 500 feet from nearby homes and wells.
[6:23:11] Charlotte County Code Section 35479 Subsection C3 requires a thousand-foot setback for group 3 excavations.
[6:23:19] This application fails on the setback requirements alone.
[6:23:23] Furthermore, agricultural ditches are not designed to drain water.
[6:23:26] They do not contain mining pressure.
[6:23:28] Using an online ditch nearly guarantees industrial road-off,
[6:23:31] and sediment will seek directly into the aquifer,
[6:23:34] contaminating our private wells, the mortal slow, and the peace river.
[6:23:38] 6. The Assertion to the site required a soil removal due to the
[6:23:42] chemical contamination has been proven false. This disproves the
[6:23:46] restoration narrative upon which the land use change was originally
[6:23:49] approved. The primary objective of this project is commercial
[6:23:54] excavation off-site material cells and solid waste disposal, not
[6:23:57] environmental restoration. If the county was misled regarding the
[6:24:01] true intent of this project, you have an opportunity to correct that
[6:24:05] today. Commissioners, your duty is to uphold the county code and floor at a law. The applicant
[6:24:10] bears the burden of proof and on this record, that burden has not been met. You cannot convert
[6:24:16] unlawful conduct into a permitted use by simply attaching conditions and hoping for the best.
[6:24:21] The question is not whether this project can be made more palatable. The question is whether
[6:24:25] this application as proposed and as supported by the record is legally approval. The answer is no.
[6:24:30] Anything less than denial would ignore the county code disregard floor to law and expose the community to avoidable and potentially irreversible harm.
[6:24:40] Personal relationships biases, green wash materials and wishful thinking do not supersede the law and they will not stand up against public scrutiny or the court.
[6:24:49] Now, I'd like to play a short video.
[6:24:52] This is what's been going on next door house.
[6:24:55] Okay, that's right.
[6:24:57] One moment, I gotta pull it up.
[6:25:09] If I can get it to play. I have time to dinner. So hopefully,
[6:25:20] I'm sorry. It's not working. I believe you guys saw that video last time I was here. You know what it sounds like.
[6:25:26] The screeching, the noise, the dust. We had a share of confirm that the smells and the noise and the dust on the site. You guys have that on the record.
[6:25:33] So, commissions I ask you. If this operation was proposed next to your home threatening your family's water air quality property values and well-being, would you vote yes?
[6:25:44] If the answer is no for you, it should not be yes for us.
[6:25:47] Thank you.
[6:25:47] Thank you for your comments, man.
[6:25:50] Anybody wishing to speak, please come forward.
[6:25:52] State your name for the record, you'll have five minutes.
[6:25:57] I have some handouts, also.
[6:26:00] I'd expect nothing last Mr. Robbins.
[6:26:02] Yeah, I will tell you, these were expensive,
[6:26:04] and I could have bought you all Chick-fil-A.
[6:26:06] Everybody even included in the deputies.
[6:26:08] Do you have one of those to the apple can also,
[6:26:10] because I think they deserve it,
[6:26:12] since we didn't get one of theirs.
[6:26:42] Okay, it's pretty good.
[6:26:43] Because my name is Rob Robbins, and I emailed you, my competence, substantial evidence yesterday,
[6:26:49] so you had that.
[6:26:50] What I'm going to give you today is, it's competent.
[6:26:52] It's not necessarily substantial, but since I really believe you should decide it back
[6:26:56] and may.
[6:26:57] I'm really here to give you a hard time today, because we shouldn't be here today.
[6:26:59] You had enough to vote this down and deny it last time.
[6:27:03] So, in any case, when a comment on what Jerry Waxler said, I don't agree.
[6:27:08] Prices absolutely right, residents should do their own homework, pay attention to facts to the facts you can look that up.
[6:27:14] I'll remind people that are watching the same person that came up with the only restore an orange grove public notice.
[6:27:21] That's very false.
[6:27:22] So that tells you all you really need to know.
[6:27:24] Also, as far as the scam they had, you're supposed to use a building permit to that exception.
[6:27:30] And they got an administrative exception using an excavation permit, which is completely different.
[6:27:35] So it's not even legal.
[6:27:36] So, you know, Percy's right, usually she is.
[6:27:40] Also, I want to correct, you know, Jay Show mentioned that only the east side of this is being worked on, yet she had the excavation permit which applies to the mining side that somehow that operation for mulching applies to this.
[6:27:52] So, really, you know, it's all kind of tied together, which, you know, doesn't make sense, but a lot of this doesn't make sense.
[6:27:58] Like I said, I mean, it'd be a hard time.
[6:27:59] If you voted no against us in the past, like I know one of you has to give yourself an asterisk because a lot of this doesn't apply to you.
[6:28:07] If you're going to, you've been given some really simple things to vote this wrong, what
[6:28:11] this down, the outdated survey, and that's just a no-brainer, anyone who's in construction
[6:28:16] or if you're building a house like I am, any citizen that does building permits, they know
[6:28:20] they have to have a survey that's not outdated by a year.
[6:28:23] So I would encourage you both this down for a stupid reason because it's a stupid proposal,
[6:28:27] and that's an easy one to use.
[6:28:30] Once you give you some of the things that you said, you're giving us enough the second
[6:28:33] at the Apple here, so it gives a chance we can actually, but what some of you said during
[6:28:37] the last meeting, some of the things that were said, it's a tough one because the underlying
[6:28:42] zoning there in the rural community mix use, it's not uncommon to have excavations on site.
[6:28:48] The problem is, this excavation was happening a long time ago in your own public birch department
[6:28:53] went there before the PD even came out in 2023 and found them in violations. All this excavating
[6:29:01] that's in your packet right here that was done by the county they went out and found this out
[6:29:05] in violation before they even applied for that PD back in 2023 so you know this was still awarded to them
[6:29:13] which which really isn't right so the board knew this was going on the granted it you know
[6:29:19] in the underlined zoning was you know it's actually being hauling with without a permit it says it
[6:29:26] there, and it was highly profitable. They got money from the county, from FEMA, funneled through
[6:29:31] the county through contractors, and they got a ton of money for this. So that's just not right.
[6:29:37] So PDZone needs to allow for this board to make exceptions to ordinances, and this community
[6:29:41] development staff claims that the flexibility of the PD is like a magic wand. But let's be clear
[6:29:46] about the law. You all said that they have a right to do this as taxpayers, but the RCMU, the future
[6:29:52] land use is not a right zoning is not a right it has to come back before a board before
[6:29:58] you grant zoning so for a lot
[6:30:00] This isn't allowed. It's going to have a right just based on future land use. So you have an option to approve zoning or not. And so don't let them flee on that.
[6:30:07] This approval, it sneaked through public notice that misled citizens by advertising nothing more than a restoration of an orange grove.
[6:30:14] Oland use designation is policy guide. It's not a blank check. And this board was under no obligation to approve that. So I'm going to skip ahead real quick. And I want to talk about taxes.
[6:30:25] and I gave you some tax warms.
[6:30:26] And if you look at that, there's three TMV parcels that I pulled up.
[6:30:32] And you can see the tax payments for what they paid.
[6:30:35] And in 2023 for those three parcels in 2022 and 2023,
[6:30:41] they paid $5,740 one year.
[6:30:44] And then the next year, TMV paid a total of,
[6:30:51] let's see, $946 so that went down,
[6:30:56] if you can believe that or not.
[6:30:57] that was based on a hundred or two or ninety three acres, that was three hundred and three
[6:31:01] dollars and twenty three cents per acre. Now Desiree, I pulled up per taxes and I'm showing
[6:31:05] you that, their ten acres, they paid six thousand seven hundred forty three dollars in twenty
[6:31:10] twenty two and five thousand nine hundred eighty four dollars in twenty three. And that's ridiculous.
[6:31:16] So basically Desiree's family, they paid a tax rate that's two hundred times higher than
[6:31:22] but these guys paid for a profitable mining excavation.
[6:31:27] Does that make sense?
[6:31:28] I mean, Charlotte County resident should be outraged.
[6:31:30] How these ag exceptions are being misused.
[6:31:33] I mean, it's tax evasion.
[6:31:34] It's tax fraud.
[6:31:35] We're losing so much money.
[6:31:36] So so much for the CIGM model that we talked about
[6:31:39] because this throws it out the window.
[6:31:40] Thank you.
[6:31:41] Thanks for comments, sir.
[6:31:42] Anybody else wish you the speak?
[6:31:43] Please come forward.
[6:31:44] Stay tuned for the record.
[6:31:45] You'll have five minutes.
[6:31:47] Last call anybody would speak on this item.
[6:31:48] Please come forward.
[6:31:49] Stay tuned for the record.
[6:31:50] You'll have five minutes.
[6:31:53] Mr. Chairman, I see no one rising, have moved close.
[6:31:56] Second, we have motion set to close the public input, any further discussion.
[6:32:00] Is there any opposition to the motion? Public input is closed.
[6:32:05] And the applicant, we're a bottle time.
[6:32:16] I think we'd like to begin, and Rob Bernson, for the record.
[6:32:19] We'd like to begin responding to your questions since you had some questions, so that we don't use our
[6:32:25] but it'll time and then you have questions that would have been addressed.
[6:32:28] Any questions for the applicant?
[6:32:33] Oh, Commissioner Dorty.
[6:32:34] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[6:32:37] I'll start off quite honestly just focusing on
[6:32:42] gone through everything.
[6:32:44] I've gone through the transcript from the last last meeting.
[6:32:49] Appreciate Commissioner Constance requesting that.
[6:32:50] It was very helpful.
[6:32:55] Basically, we went through the final order from the administrative judge as well, trying to
[6:33:00] pull together some facts.
[6:33:02] And again, look, it really spent a lot of time on the conditions that were placed in the PD.
[6:33:08] Back in 23.
[6:33:10] With a lot of focus for me on L.
[6:33:14] The requirement for if you're going to remove material from the site.
[6:33:18] So I've got the questions to kind of build on that.
[6:33:20] if you're going to remove from the site, the permitting process, I was trying to get clear in my
[6:33:25] head what the permitting process was going to be. And there's a lot of testimony from 2023 about
[6:33:31] that, Gary, you gave a lot of information, Ms. Waxler did as well. But anyways, first of all, I just
[6:33:38] want to ask, I want to get something clarified that was in the final order. There was an amendment to
[6:33:42] PRP application during that, the judge approved it was basically eliminating the use of yard
[6:33:54] debris as backfill. So the permit has apparently been modified where you can only, I've
[6:33:59] heard that from some of the folks here earlier, you can only use clean debris or clean
[6:34:03] felt, is that correct? There are no more yard waste. Apparently no more mulch.
[6:34:10] Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Felicia Kitsmiller. I'm a shareholder at Sternsweaver Miller. I have been sworn.
[6:34:18] I had the pleasure of representing TMV in the ERP process, and specifically in the Administrative Challenge, and the final order that was referred to by you Commissioner Dardi.
[6:34:28] And you are correct. During that process, during that phase, when we were going through the Administrative Hearing, the Department of Environmental Protection,
[6:34:37] as well as TMB came together to try to address some of the petitioners' concerns on the front-end
[6:34:44] proactively. One of those things that we agreed to do was to back out the phrase yard
[6:34:49] trash or vegetative debris from the application and replace that with clean, clean, fill, or clean
[6:34:56] to break. The definition of that in statute has
[6:35:00] I already been read. The caveat that I would say to that is that, yes, we did state that that would only be clean fill or clean debris, unless otherwise approved by a solid waste permit. So a couple things. The definition of clean debris that is in the code, specifies that the material must be inert.
[6:35:19] Right. Composed after a certain point in time becomes inert. Obviously, we all know compost
[6:35:26] breaks down, vegetative materials released. Someone earlier spoke about the methane release
[6:35:30] as these things break down. After a certain point, this vegetative debris stops breaking
[6:35:36] down. It then becomes inert. At that point, it would be acceptable and would meet the definition
[6:35:41] of clean debris. The applicant also has the option to seek a solid waste disposal permit that
[6:35:48] would allow it to deposit material that does not specifically meet the definition of clean debris
[6:35:56] in the statute. So you see there's kind of an A or B in our permit condition. At this point,
[6:36:03] it is the applicant's intention to use only degraded compost that has already broken down and meets
[6:36:10] this definition of being inert. And operational needs would address whether in the future they saw
[6:36:17] amendments to the Solid Waste Permit that would allow them to initiate that second clause
[6:36:23] in their ERP permit, unless otherwise.
[6:36:25] As a follow-up question to that, I assume that in the scientifically someone will certify
[6:36:30] that material is inert and meets the definition of clean debris.
[6:36:36] We would need to meet that definition as part of our compliance with the environmental resource
[6:36:40] permit.
[6:36:41] Somebody would check that.
[6:36:42] It would have to be confirmed.
[6:36:44] Now, what the process is of having that confirmation check through the process, I'm not clear of,
[6:36:49] but it would have to be confirmed scientifically that it is infected in our material.
[6:36:52] Prior to the in place in the whole...
[6:36:54] Correct.
[6:36:55] The other aspect of the final order was trying to get my arms around because it was testimony back in 2023 about the removal of materials from the site.
[6:37:10] And Gary, you've started in quite a bit of discussion about we need going down 13 feet, top
[6:37:17] fan feet was basically sand, you need to get down 13 to get the three foot a shell and
[6:37:24] basically I guess is the intent for the material you don't need on site because Miss Wax
[6:37:29] are provided testimony that sort of sounded after you subsequent to your testimony back in
[6:37:37] 23 year, that it sounded like most of the material was going to be the shell material I'm
[6:37:42] focusing on right now, was going to be predominantly left on site for the hall roads
[6:37:47] and future subdivision roads. But when you really look at the numbers that were in the final
[6:37:52] order from the judge, it looks like only around 30% of the all the excavated materials will
[6:38:00] actually be used on site. The soil will be mixed with the compost and so forth. So can you
[6:38:05] So, you're correct, the shell layer starts around 10-11 feet depending on where you are.
[6:38:14] The shell, the bait, we are not a DOT mine, that's not what we do.
[6:38:18] We've never been a DOT mine.
[6:38:20] I mean, the current excavation that we have on site right now,
[6:38:25] we're authorized to remove 2.2 million yards material.
[6:38:28] I just checked our records.
[6:38:30] over the 12 years that we've been in our operation,
[6:38:33] we've moved 26,000 yards of material of shell.
[6:38:37] That's how much shell we sell off site.
[6:38:40] So the shell that we need to get to that layer of shell there
[6:38:44] to build the roads and that, again,
[6:38:48] the majority of the shell will stay on site.
[6:38:50] Will there be a few loads here that are gone?
[6:38:53] Maybe we don't know, but we are not,
[6:38:56] a lot of the shell products that people sell there,
[6:38:58] either wash shell. We're not processing of shell. We don't, we're not a DOT, so we can't use it for road
[6:39:04] base or anything like that. It's just somebody looking for shell to, for their yard or fill
[6:39:09] on boys or something like that. We might sell a load or two or something like that. We do not sell
[6:39:13] a lot of shell on the property. So that answers your cell question. Well, your testimony now is in
[6:39:20] conflict with the final order. And what the judge had in there that said 250,000, 846 cubic yards,
[6:39:26] I guess we'll be sold.
[6:39:29] So how was it just a percentage that we were giving?
[6:39:33] We gave a percentage of material that probably
[6:39:36] will be, you see, the problem with all this, though.
[6:39:39] We just gave a percentage of what material
[6:39:41] will be removed off site.
[6:39:43] And those are rough numbers.
[6:39:46] In my mind, and we spoke three years ago on this matter,
[6:39:51] and we came up with a number of roughly about 30% of the material
[6:39:55] We'll stay on site.
[6:39:59] OK.
[6:39:59] Well, that should.
[6:40:00] I just want to share with the commission that it is in conflict with the final order, the judge got numbers from somebody to put this in the final order. So I'm just confused. I would appreciate that getting clarified eventually, but, you know.
[6:40:15] Commissioner D'Aurety, if you can give me the citation, I'd be.
[6:40:18] It's 20, 24 actually of the, of the, I will find that provision and get you a more specific.
[6:40:26] Yeah, I just, I'm just, again, it's, it's quite a difference from what Gary just has to find.
[6:40:30] Not, not a problem at all. Let me just find that specific citation and get you an answer.
[6:40:35] Then basically it gets down to then condition L.
[6:40:38] You're going to excavate. You're going to remove material from sight.
[6:40:43] So then I'm going down through and putting the old county engineer head on if I was still
[6:40:48] doing that kind of work.
[6:40:49] How would I permit this?
[6:40:52] So I need to know from your hand testimony from Ms. Waxler back in 2023, I'm trying to remember
[6:41:01] now just hanging in there, I believe Jerry testified that she'd go, she'd offered a specific
[6:41:08] There's two 478 talks about standard permitting,
[6:41:12] 479 specific permits.
[6:41:14] So I go, I'm going down through the specific permits
[6:41:16] and think, oh, it jumps right out, agriculture,
[6:41:19] our ag ag specific permit.
[6:41:22] I think that's what you test the,
[6:41:24] Ms. Wax was testing morning was back three years ago.
[6:41:27] So how are you going to permit this?
[6:41:30] That's where it's sent in the presentation.
[6:41:33] We would get with staff to determine which application,
[6:41:36] And because the application is on the first page, you check which box you're going to do,
[6:41:43] and you're going to fill out Section 1, 2, that's just standard, you know, property owner's
[6:41:49] information.
[6:41:50] Whether it's 13, 14, and 15, 15s of signatures, 12, 13, and 14 come to how far, you know,
[6:41:58] the application's basically how deep you're digging, what are your side slopes, what's
[6:42:02] the seasonal high water table.
[6:42:03] It's just as standard questions like that.
[6:42:07] One of the things that we looked at, even for agricultural,
[6:42:13] as long as, you know, our intent,
[6:42:14] as long as we were submitting for either an agricultural commercial with the caveat, this is trying to meet
[6:42:20] PD conditions.
[6:42:21] And as long as I'm hitting Section 3-5-402, which relates to performance bond.
[6:42:27] So a performance bond for the land will be in place,
[6:42:30] if we decide to remove dirt off the property.
[6:42:34] Section 3-5-490 relates to the county performing
[6:42:39] inspections.
[6:42:40] That's the inspections that the public works department
[6:42:42] comes out.
[6:42:43] Section 3-5-491, which relates to the end reports
[6:42:47] that are required.
[6:42:48] So the end reports that are required,
[6:42:51] you do have a little brief little survey,
[6:42:53] showing the limits of your construction activity,
[6:42:55] and how many yards have come off the site.
[6:42:58] So as long as in that's condition L,
[6:43:01] and as long as I meet those conditions when we submit,
[6:43:04] you know, that's, you know, again,
[6:43:06] these are that permitting process is optional,
[6:43:11] L is optional in my opinion right now.
[6:43:14] If you remove material off site.
[6:43:17] If you remove material off site.
[6:43:19] If you don't, you leave it all on site.
[6:43:22] Yeah, I agree with that.
[6:43:23] But I guess on fourth, really what I think you're saying, Gary, is that 479 would be the
[6:43:28] section of the earth-moving code that you'll be submitting on.
[6:43:32] And it's consistent with this wax that was pressed from 2023, however, she was more specific
[6:43:38] and sent it with the AgX division, a specific permit, AgX division.
[6:43:43] And we've submitted the AgX division in the past and the AgX division, very very similar
[6:43:48] to the commercial X-Gave, like the only thing difference is the public hearing, and that's
[6:43:54] what Jerry came and spoke about that we're doing the public hearing in this kind of format.
[6:44:01] Well, I respectfully disagree.
[6:44:02] I mean, you know, when you read the Ag X-Gave, it's an X-Gave, for a site, for a water
[6:44:09] storage and conjunction with bona fide agricultural purposes, that's not what this is.
[6:44:14] So I guess I'm concerned about that.
[6:44:18] I went down through it, I guess, again, if the material is going to be used, if you decide to remove material from the side, the sand or the shell.
[6:44:29] If you're going to sell it to somebody for construction sites such as road beds and building pads and I do believe you've testified it would be probably used for building pads.
[6:44:40] In my opinion, it falls under a commercial excavation requirement, but that does require a
[6:44:48] complaint change and a zoning change.
[6:44:50] So that's where I'm hung up right now.
[6:44:53] I just need to share that with you.
[6:44:55] I feel the way I read a rob, it just looks at what.
[6:44:57] Let me take a stab at it.
[6:45:00] So, in the PD approval in 2023,
[6:45:06] I've highlighted on my copy where the word excavation is used.
[6:45:11] There was no hiding the fact that there was going to be an excavation to take the soil out and replace it with the material from the mulching and compost.
[6:45:22] We haven't had a chance to meet with staff yet, but you can't have a PD that recognizes
[6:45:29] there's going to be an excavation and potentially an excavation permit, and then three
[6:45:33] years later say, well, we don't really have an excavation permit that you qualify for,
[6:45:39] so you can't get an excavation permit.
[6:45:41] I think under the PD, which is a limited use for the restoration, sitting down with staff and
[6:45:49] attorney's office will allow us the opportunity to come to what is the appropriate permit
[6:45:55] to be issued under this PD, not under the quote unquote excavation ordinance itself,
[6:46:01] but an excavation permit specific to this planned development.
[6:46:06] Mr. Chair, as I can continue.
[6:46:08] Yeah, I don't disagree with that logic, Rob.
[6:46:10] I guess what I'm trying to get to, I'm looking down the road is, and I'm trying to put
[6:46:14] the hat on, if someone sitting out in public works, it's got a process this.
[6:46:19] And there's not clearly defined in condition L,
[6:46:22] how that will be done.
[6:46:24] You're absolutely correct.
[6:46:26] All the PD condition says is,
[6:46:28] if you're gonna move material outside,
[6:46:30] you gotta go through that permitting process
[6:46:32] and those parts of the code are identified,
[6:46:34] which actually relate mostly
[6:46:36] to specific earth-moving permits.
[6:46:38] So that's, I extrapolated to, okay,
[6:46:41] if they're gonna go to eventually have to come in
[6:46:43] because there's plenty of testimonies saying
[6:46:45] that you're gonna move material outside,
[6:46:47] I stand and or shall.
[6:46:50] And I think that that's where I'm hung up.
[6:46:53] I just wanted to try to have more clarification from you folks as to what you plan on doing.
[6:46:58] So public worse can, and if quite honestly, I'm looking at this, I don't see the egg specific permit fits.
[6:47:06] I see the commercial excavation setting.
[6:47:09] And that requires future land use and zoning.
[6:47:12] That's for you to decide.
[6:47:14] It's not part of today's.
[6:47:15] I agree. I think it's two things. Number one, deciding if it's worth to take material off-site in the first place.
[6:47:24] Right. Yes, we have testified, Ms. Waxler, and the original hearing Mr. Bane, and the original hearing,
[6:47:29] we intended to take materials off-site. If it becomes that creates a problem that's not worth creating,
[6:47:37] we don't remove the material from the site. The site certainly is big enough. The overall plan is a
[6:47:43] a rural community mixed use project, this PD is implementing that particular land use.
[6:47:52] It would not make sense, it would be contrary to common sense, to say you got this land
[6:47:57] use.
[6:47:58] Now, you've got to take it away so you can do the excretion and then we come back and put it
[6:48:01] back again.
[6:48:02] I think between the staff, the attorneys office, the applicant, and the applicant's attorneys,
[6:48:09] we can come up with a permit.
[6:48:10] I can't tell you what that is today.
[6:48:12] But I think if it is decided that they're going to go forward just like every day the county's
[6:48:19] Presented with something it hasn't been presented before people sit down together and they come to a conclusion that makes it makes sense
[6:48:26] Well, I appreciate
[6:48:28] The comments and Mr. I'm done, but at this point. Okay, I have Mr. David in the queue
[6:48:34] I just want to make sure it's a very record. I'm sorry Tom David County turned it just want to make sure it's very clear that the pd condition does not grant a permit
[6:48:41] So the PD condition does not grant a permanent understanding.
[6:48:46] Okay, so in other words, the fact that this language is here,
[6:48:50] I'm going to slowly disagree with Mr. Burns and say that there's no implication
[6:48:54] that necessarily that the AG permit is going to be appropriate here.
[6:48:58] So we will reserve the county staff will reserve any determination
[6:49:03] on which permit if any the county would issue in conjunction with that PD condition
[6:49:10] the future. And again, that is not the issue that's before us today. What's before us today
[6:49:15] is whether the site plan complies with L and I think because it's a conditional condition,
[6:49:24] it's hard to say that you're not complying with it because it's anticipating a potential act in
[6:49:29] the future. Yes, sir. I just want to make it totally clear that it's my opinion that it doesn't
[6:49:36] need that egg under 479. That's all. Thank you. Commissioner Constance, we have a specific answer
[6:49:42] to your question.
[6:49:45] Okay. This is Felicia Kitsmilli for the record. Commissioner Diarty,
[6:49:49] I did look up that citation. That is a long quotation that was taken by the ALJ from the
[6:49:54] original PD application submitted by the applicant in this and in if you
[6:50:00] Notice the last line, it says, over 30% of material will be used on site, basically reserving the
[6:50:07] right for it to be more than 30% but stating that at least 30%.
[6:50:11] Thank you. Do we get your name back on the record?
[6:50:14] I'm sorry. It was Felicia Kissman.
[6:50:15] Okay. I'd commission your conscience on the queue.
[6:50:18] Yeah. If we can just finish responding to your questions.
[6:50:22] Well, I would like to add to that.
[6:50:23] Is that okay, Chris? Sure.
[6:50:26] Okay.
[6:50:27] Thank you.
[6:50:28] Commissioner Doerty, you have brought out the testimony.
[6:50:30] Oh, oh, timeout, timeout.
[6:50:32] You're not representing the act.
[6:50:33] I'm not, but he, Commissioner Doerty,
[6:50:36] made a question about something that I said.
[6:50:39] I'm asking for permission to speak to respond to Commissioner Doerty.
[6:50:43] Hey, the chairman is going to make the determination with the board.
[6:50:47] Now, our rules allow if the board wishes to bring a member up to speak.
[6:50:55] We reserve that right.
[6:50:56] But you know, it's up to the board if there's no objection if you want to hear from Mrs. Waxler or not.
[6:51:04] Mr. Chairman, I did burn her name up and pre this testimony in the back 2023.
[6:51:08] So I have no problem with.
[6:51:10] Is that okay with the board?
[6:51:12] Is there any objection?
[6:51:13] Okay, the board doesn't object.
[6:51:15] Thank you.
[6:51:16] On page 21 of the transcript is the conversation that we spoke about.
[6:51:19] And I wanted to clarify.
[6:51:21] I know that I read.
[6:51:22] We're just reread it just moments ago.
[6:51:24] What I identified was that because we would be creating essentially a pass of park in where the whole was being dug, that that is allowed to be pursued as a standard permit under the excavation ordinance.
[6:51:37] standard permit doesn't, is silent as to whether you can or cannot remove
[6:51:44] dirt from the site. Recognizing that there were concerns about the fact that we
[6:51:51] were moving dirt. What I said is, and what I offered is that we would provide the
[6:51:56] information that is required under an agricultural permit, which provides all the
[6:52:01] information that you would get under a commercial excavation permit. But it would
[6:52:05] allow this to proceed because we have RCMU land use,
[6:52:09] not excavation, and mining land use.
[6:52:12] So that was the intent.
[6:52:13] I mean, that this would qualify as a standard permit,
[6:52:17] which requires much less information.
[6:52:19] But given the interest that there was and your concerns,
[6:52:22] what I preferred was that we would submit the additional
[6:52:25] information required under the agricultural.
[6:52:28] And then I think as you read the transcript,
[6:52:29] it talks about this would then allow us to proceed
[6:52:32] to get a standard permit submitted with additional information, but would not require changing the
[6:52:38] RCME land use to excavation mining.
[6:52:42] Thank you.
[6:52:43] Thank you.
[6:52:44] Commissioner Constance, you have the floor sir.
[6:52:47] Thank you, Chair.
[6:52:48] I mean, I guess I wanted to find out number one.
[6:52:53] This was probably testimony, but this is Ms. Wexler.
[6:52:55] It seems like a red-haring memo from February of 2010 where she references the exclamation
[6:53:02] permit for 3203 O Burmont Road, except we're talking about 3-3150 and 32990, so I don't
[6:53:10] think this even has any new pairing on this. That's the first thing. Second thing is, you
[6:53:18] bring up a very important point, but the problem is that a mining permit won't come
[6:53:22] before us. That's administrative. That's going to go through staff. So, you know, once this
[6:53:27] leaves the dyes, and it has to be a mining permit situation, we're relying on our staff
[6:53:33] to make the determinations, and we really don't have any say in this special mining permit
[6:53:41] that's never been done before. So, that gives me some grave concern. And I want to make sure
[6:53:47] It's on the record.
[6:53:48] I was the vote in 2023 against this.
[6:53:52] Thank you.
[6:53:53] Thanks, sir.
[6:53:55] Any other comments for questions for the applicant?
[6:53:58] OK, you can rebut, sir.
[6:54:01] Do you have any specific,
[6:54:04] OK?
[6:54:06] Again, I think with Rob Bernson, I haven't sworn in.
[6:54:11] What this comes down to is what was approved in the PD?
[6:54:15] Not should we approve the PD?
[6:54:17] The PD is approved, every bit of testimony from the opposition today went to whether you should approve this PD or not.
[6:54:26] That's not what's before you. You approve the PD and the applicant has expended tens of thousands if not more dollars to come back before you for final PD approval, having met all of the conditions.
[6:54:38] Your professional staff has issued the letter from the department, the development review committee that in the staff's professional opinion, all of the requirements of the PD and compliance with the comprehensive plan and the code of laws and ordinances has been satisfied.
[6:54:56] This was a consent agenda item on in-
[6:55:00] May, that has now gone through some 30 different testimony individuals coming up. We had 13, the first one, and I was up to 17, on this one. The information that has been presented to you is not relevant to your decision. Your decision is, does this applicant meet the criteria? And with all the respect to Commissioner Constance, it's a different question today. I understand you voted against it and it got passed.
[6:55:28] So now the question is legally has the applicant met the criteria.
[6:55:34] There is no competent substantial evidence in the record that indicates that the applicant
[6:55:39] has not met the conditions of the approved concept plan and we respectfully request approval of the PD at this time.
[6:55:48] Thank you.
[6:55:49] Thank you, sir.
[6:55:53] Okay, gentlemen.
[6:55:55] You have any more questions for the applicant before he leaves the podium there.
[6:56:02] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[6:56:05] Seeing that I agree with the comments that Mr. Burns and just made, I would move approval
[6:56:08] of the resolution.
[6:56:11] We have a motion for approval.
[6:56:13] Sir, second.
[6:56:13] Mr. Chairman, I'll second that for a little bit of discussion.
[6:56:18] I don't disagree.
[6:56:20] Commissioner Constance, that is a little bit.
[6:56:23] This is the way our process is though.
[6:56:25] You know, that's why I was trying to extract from the applicant a little bit.
[6:56:29] a little bit more detail, which I think I got, I mean, I understand that there'll be some significant discussions with the attorney's office and with public works and community development on the if and if they decide to move material off site and and they're going to what kind of a permit they're going to secure so it's a matter of looking at precisely what they said that have they met the condition have they met the requirements for a final PD horses out of the barn.
[6:57:00] Back in 2023 is really when we decided, you know, to do this so I don't I don't I don't really see that I have an option
[6:57:10] It's it's it's they're right
[6:57:12] They've check they've checked the boxes. I may not be happy with all the answers, but they have checked the boxes
[6:57:19] So that's kind of where I am. It's it's unfortunate. I do want us to really look at this this particular
[6:57:26] petition of course I brought up before we can't do anything about it now even allowing these
[6:57:31] excavations this close to suburban neighborhood has got a change but we can't do anything
[6:57:37] about it right now but the state will allow us to look at it till sometime late 2027 so
[6:57:43] I mean I want to move at east I don't want this ever coming up again near where these folks
[6:57:48] live and that's really bothers me but I see that we're kind of boxed thank you Mr.
[6:57:55] I have too many questions that I think there's still things that are still too cloudy for me.
[6:58:04] There's a question which hasn't been satisfied whether or not it was extended.
[6:58:09] One of the speakers wrote that up.
[6:58:11] There's another question about timing.
[6:58:14] Did the timing go beyond whether it should be?
[6:58:17] Then we had the whole issue of contamination that we were initially basing this on contamination
[6:58:24] But then we're told, it's not contaminated, and I really can't understand them why we have
[6:58:31] a mind there.
[6:58:32] And I just have too many questions, or I just can't focus as that.
[6:58:36] Plus there's other issues.
[6:58:39] One of the things I touch upon very simply, earlier, if there's going to be a mining operation,
[6:58:44] there's going to be a lot more traffic on that road, and I only just, maybe it have six
[6:58:51] a 10 trucks an hour coming in and out of there. I don't know for sure. I know those things
[6:58:57] are busy and I know right now that road is dangerous. You know maybe someday and the near future
[6:59:03] will be able to find a way to have it full lane to get some shoulders on it to make it
[6:59:09] safer. Just seems to me just too much confusion. There's too many questions. There's even
[6:59:15] some legal issues that were in a dress in terms of timing and phasing and how this was
[6:59:20] done and how it was presented, and I'm, I'm, I'm, in spite of what we've told about, I'm
[6:59:25] just not comfortable. I can't support it today. Thank you, sir. Okay. So, a couple things were
[6:59:32] mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, a competent, substantial evidence. So, we are
[6:59:40] held to a much higher standard when we make these decisions as opposed to a legislative decision.
[6:59:45] So, there was a question about traffic earlier.
[6:59:51] I did see the traffic impact statement which was provided in the material in the presentation.
[6:59:57] I think it was Page 160.
[7:00:00] Has staff accepted in their professional opinion the results of that traffic impact statement. I want to make sure I get that on the record.
[7:00:14] For the record, we'd have to do for the record rubber track, and I'd be in swore, accreditation.
[7:00:19] Yes, we have reviewed the traffic study and we could go with it.
[7:00:22] Okay, and you can occur with it.
[7:00:23] Yes. Okay.
[7:00:24] Because I did hear some of the folks who commented and Mr. Factory is our subject matter expert in the county traffic engineer.
[7:00:33] But he reviews these things, not just on behalf of the board, but on behalf of the county.
[7:00:40] I mean, I think there's, you know, people are saying, well, who's representing you?
[7:00:44] You pay for the county staff to be here and do the work that's necessary to make sure
[7:00:50] our codes are followed.
[7:00:52] They don't work for the developer.
[7:00:55] They don't work directly for the Board of County Commissioners.
[7:00:58] They work under the county administrator to do their job.
[7:01:02] So I want to make sure we get we get that on the record.
[7:01:05] There was a question about the 2010 approval, which I have here that Mrs. Waxler provided and the address on it.
[7:01:15] The address is not consistent with the address on our staff report, but there is also a section number and a township and a range.
[7:01:23] Did address has changed over the years from its 2010 or is this approval consistent with this property?
[7:01:29] I believe, Gerald Axe, talk about that with existing mining.
[7:01:35] There is one metal portion, it's not the exact, these projects, but it's surrounding by
[7:01:41] the PD.
[7:01:42] It's EM zoning for the existing mining, so there's been a lot of comment about things being
[7:01:49] done illegally and against statute and against the law.
[7:01:53] So this I'll ask the county attorney because that's your job.
[7:01:56] has anything on this application, any of the submittals or anything you've heard from
[7:02:02] public testimony, has anything violated the law or Florida statutes or codes and ordinances?
[7:02:09] I'm not heard anything, Mr. Chair, Tom David County Attorney, I'm not heard anything in
[7:02:14] the testimony today that indicates that there's been something you'll legal done here.
[7:02:21] There was a question about the setback needing to be a thousand feet.
[7:02:26] I think from the nearest residents or the nearest property is the application consistent with the requirement of 1,000 feet.
[7:02:37] I see that down to the 1000 feet to talk about commercial excavation.
[7:02:42] So we're talking about restoration project right now.
[7:02:45] Okay, but then there was a question about what if they come in for an excavation permit?
[7:02:49] Then, like I said, they will work with the
[7:02:53] excavation administrator and attorney's office to determine what specific permit and how to move forward.
[7:03:00] Okay, Joanne, please come forward.
[7:03:03] You have to know.
[7:03:04] Joanne Vernon, county engineer and excavation administrator.
[7:03:08] So how would that set back be followed?
[7:03:11] So it would depend what we would review the permit application depending on what permit we all decide they would need to get.
[7:03:20] And if that setback would apply for that permit type, then they would have to meet it.
[7:03:28] Okay, so we done during staff review that setback would have to be met.
[7:03:34] Okay, because it was a constituent citizen who said they were worried it wouldn't be met.
[7:03:40] But if that applied for that particular permit, they'd have to meet that standard.
[7:03:44] Correct.
[7:03:44] There's a question about the date on the survey and that it's an old survey.
[7:03:50] Can I get clarification on that if the survey meets counter requirements for it meet our requirement is we have a application you provide the survey that survey must be within one year
[7:04:03] So these projects have been going on more than a year
[7:04:07] So the meets a requirement when the submit the application was a boundary reserve. Okay, so at the time it's the middle at met the requirement
[7:04:13] It doesn't matter that we're having this here today and met it at the time of the submittal. Yes
[7:04:18] Yes, sir. When they make application for permits moving forward, they'll also have to have a new updated one as well, so they'll have to redo it again.
[7:04:29] Okay.
[7:04:33] There was another person who spoke a Mrs. Diane Hack, I looked at her resume.
[7:04:40] She certainly appears like an expert to me in looking at the resume.
[7:04:44] I'm not going to speak for the board, but I'll certainly accept her as an expert
[7:04:48] witness based on her resume assuming this is correct.
[7:04:54] There were some questions in her hand out regarding the ERP conditions of vegetative material.
[7:05:00] Not being allowed. I wanted to have somebody speak to that and to her comment on that.
[7:05:09] Yeah, it was about, yeah.
[7:05:13] I think it was about, and you may have addressed it about the
[7:05:16] inert, but you said it became inert over time.
[7:05:21] Yes, Commissioner, for the record, Felicia Kitt's Miller-Sterns, we've remiller for
[7:05:25] the applicant. The definition of clean debris that is in statute that was recited earlier
[7:05:30] It's Section 403, and I apologize I don't have the subsection available, it's Chapter 403.
[7:05:36] But the definition of clean debris states that it must be inert, basically meaning it wouldn't
[7:05:42] break down any further.
[7:05:45] As we all know, vegetative debris breaks down over time.
[7:05:49] But as if you look at the half-life, as these organic materials break down, they essentially
[7:05:54] reach a point.
[7:05:54] This is a matter of science, is that it doesn't break down any further.
[7:05:58] you've reached a point where there is no more decomposition.
[7:06:01] Think about your compost pile at home, right?
[7:06:04] You put things in.
[7:06:05] You might put a whole squash or a whole zucchini in there.
[7:06:08] Over time, it degrades, degrades, degrades, until it's gone.
[7:06:10] And now it is dark or soil, as we heard the distinction earlier.
[7:06:16] But no longer is releasing those gaseous materials.
[7:06:20] It essentially becomes a nerve.
[7:06:21] There is no more organic matter related to it.
[7:06:24] It has already performed all that's breakdown.
[7:06:26] at that point it would meet the definition of a claim to break under statute.
[7:06:31] So does this material get stockpiled in a certain area and then it takes, I don't know how
[7:06:36] long the process takes, it may take a year, I don't know. But does it then it gets tested at that point?
[7:06:43] How long does it typically take for this to break down becoming hurt?
[7:06:46] I don't have those numbers at my fingertips when we were doing the dough here and we did review
[7:06:51] that and we figured it would be about three to five years that this material would be stockpiled
[7:06:56] turned and managed. Mr. Bain can speak more specifically to the operations on site and how much
[7:07:01] material is in that virtually inert or will be inert by the time of backfilling stage. But yes,
[7:07:07] we figure it takes about three to five years after the material has been composed and to reach that
[7:07:12] inertia. So over a period of years, this material will be monitored, manipulated, moved, stirred,
[7:07:19] whatever, until it becomes inert. Correct. And that's standard composting procedures that is
[7:07:24] standard at all, solid waste facilities at this type.
[7:07:28] Thank you.
[7:07:29] Thank you.
[7:07:32] So what I was getting to on the competent substantial
[7:07:35] evidence, if I'm unable to find competent substantial
[7:07:39] evidence in my decision to overturn what the board has already
[7:07:46] approved, going back to the 2023 approval.
[7:07:49] I think we talked about the horse leaving the barn on that already.
[7:07:52] The applicants go into the process that they're supposed to go through based on that 2023 approval.
[7:07:57] That's why it was on the consent agenda last time.
[7:08:00] And I think out of it abundance of caution.
[7:08:03] And I had a problem.
[7:08:04] Really, if you remember, I had one issue it was condition M.
[7:08:08] And I don't really think I remember hearing anybody today,
[7:08:11] really focused on M.
[7:08:13] But it wasn't issue for me back then.
[7:08:16] And maybe it wasn't mentioned because I immediately,
[7:08:19] when this was posted I look for that condition m being met and it was met it was
[7:08:24] item number 13 as an exhibit on here and it talked about the odor, the dust, and
[7:08:30] the noise. So that condition in my mind that I had a concern for before and was
[7:08:37] why I voted the way I did was because I wanted to see it and now I see it.
[7:08:45] But if we don't have confidence of substantial evidence and we deny the permit, it exposes the county and the taxpayers to a potential suit because we didn't follow the quasi-judicial procedure as required by statute, and that's where it's really tricky on this.
[7:09:05] I think the key was the 2023 vote, not to mention all the prior votes that led up to this, you know, all the changes that happened in the past.
[7:09:18] So, you know, I'm leaning towards approving again because of the confidence substantial evidence in my requirement under statute.
[7:09:25] I just have not been able to see it. And I haven't wavered from my requirement at the last meeting, which was that condition and be met.
[7:09:31] and the applicant met it.
[7:09:34] Commissioner Constance, recognize her.
[7:09:35] Yeah, just one question that I had written down a while back,
[7:09:38] but I was just curious.
[7:09:39] So when the post-Ein debris was contracted,
[7:09:42] is it a direct contract with FEMA,
[7:09:44] or was it with the county on behalf of FEMA?
[7:09:49] So our contract was with the Haller,
[7:09:54] which was aspirate,
[7:09:56] that had I believe had the contract with the FEMA,
[7:09:59] Okay.
[7:10:00] So I, because I just wanted to find out if there were, if there were requirements that were being the Conqueror, I'm sorry, Gary Bain for the records.
[7:10:06] Okay. I just want to know if there were, if the contract had any requirements, but I'm assuming, I shouldn't assume, but Ash Grant was just like,
[7:10:15] we've got these metric tons of stuff and you, you meet the requirement to receive them, so we want to contract with you, but I didn't know if the, if FEMA had put any kind of environmental requirements on you,
[7:10:27] You were not contracting directly with them.
[7:10:31] Again, Gary being for the record, the only thing that FEMA had is that they had their own
[7:10:35] personal spotters checking the loads, as well as our spotters as well.
[7:10:40] So they had, they doubled up on the spotters making sure that the loads coming in with what
[7:10:45] they said they were correct.
[7:10:46] Correct.
[7:10:47] Correct size.
[7:10:48] Yeah.
[7:10:49] That's type material coming in.
[7:10:52] Thank you.
[7:10:52] And since I got the county attorney on the record about if there was anything
[7:10:57] legal going on here. I'd like to ask staff you've heard all the testimony. Have you changed
[7:11:03] your mind on your recommendation to the board? Has anything changed? Have you heard anything
[7:11:10] or do you stand by your recommendations?
[7:11:14] Sorry, I don't have any. Any dad? I'm not changing my mind.
[7:11:19] Okay. Can you review that? Well, I mean, it's important because this is our professional staff.
[7:11:24] In certain matters, we don't know everything, we all read a lot, we ask a lot of questions and sometimes when it comes to these quasi-judicial, we rely on our subject matter experts and you're the subject matter expert along with the rest of the professional staff.
[7:11:40] It's still my opinion.
[7:11:41] The proposed PD-Final Detail Side Plan
[7:11:45] comprise with all PD-conditions contained in the
[7:11:49] ONN number, 23-020.
[7:11:53] Thank you.
[7:11:54] So let me phrase it this way.
[7:11:56] There's been a lot of discussion about a mining permit,
[7:11:59] and also this agricultural use,
[7:12:01] and it was kind of a backdoor way to do a mining operation.
[7:12:05] Do our codes in order to need to be changed or improved
[7:12:08] to, so this doesn't happen again, and another board doesn't have the same situation.
[7:12:18] Joanne Burnon for the record. I think that decision lies in your guys' hands.
[7:12:26] If there are things that you would like to change to make more clear, we could certainly
[7:12:31] take a look at that and have any input you guys would like to see us look at.
[7:12:37] I hate to put you on the spot, but I am because, you know, this is technical, this is technical.
[7:12:44] And, you know, we look to staff or recommendations on approving it.
[7:12:47] It appears in this particular case, the existing framework that we have, the applicant was able to work within that framework as bad as it may appear that,
[7:13:00] It's a mine, but it is an egg.
[7:13:03] But they worked within the framework of the rules,
[7:13:06] the way they're currently written.
[7:13:08] That is correct.
[7:13:09] And that's the problem.
[7:13:11] If I'm going to ding somebody, I want to see a clear violation
[7:13:14] of the rules.
[7:13:15] I have not seen a legal violation, or where they deviated
[7:13:19] from the framework of the rules that we have in place right now.
[7:13:21] And that's the problem.
[7:13:23] And you throw on top of it, it's quasi-judicial.
[7:13:27] These are some of the things we have to grapple with.
[7:13:28] and that's this is one of them. This is one of them.
[7:13:31] Commissioner Corrects recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[7:13:33] And I think we could certainly have that conversation.
[7:13:36] But we can't activate any changes until after the ban has been lifted on making things more restrictive.
[7:13:44] That's so I think Commissioner D'Ordie said 2027, pending, right?
[7:13:49] Pending a storm, pending, whatever may happen from the governor's office.
[7:13:52] But I think it's something we'll have in conversation about to figure out how we might be able to dial this.
[7:13:57] And this has always been, mining is always a problem with people, but it's also a need for
[7:14:02] our community.
[7:14:03] So I think trying to dial it in, get it right, as we continue to grow, it's going to be very
[7:14:08] very important.
[7:14:10] Yeah.
[7:14:10] Commissioner Dirty Recony.
[7:14:11] Yeah, Commissioner Treks just said, you know, what I was going to try to say, I think I want
[7:14:15] to look at it holistically.
[7:14:16] Yeah.
[7:14:17] Well, look at the map, locations of where Earth moving is, excavations are going to be allowed
[7:14:21] in this county.
[7:14:22] Want to move at East?
[7:14:23] I know that's problematic.
[7:14:24] of this pros and cons, so I'll ask, plus we need to look at the Earth movement code.
[7:14:29] And yeah, we got to understand what happened here and work towards it, but I really,
[7:14:34] realistically, we can't do anything about this until 2027 because of the state.
[7:14:38] That's one other thing folks.
[7:14:41] We're losing our home rule authority on a lot of stuff from Tallahassee.
[7:14:46] So that's the cards we dealt. Thank you, sir.
[7:14:49] Thank you. Okay, so we have a motion in the second.
[7:14:51] Is there any further discussion?
[7:14:53] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[7:14:55] Yes.
[7:14:56] And I'm still opposed.
[7:14:58] Okay.
[7:14:58] That passes three to two.
[7:15:00] Commissioner, do H and Commissioner Constance opposed. Okay, we're going to move on to VB2.
[7:15:16] Just so you guys know, I've been trying to get into the next item and to check the other three in all of our computers.
[7:15:23] The document's start coming up, but Mr. Four has said that it's coming up on his phone.
[7:15:30] So he's already touched in basal with IT and tried to figure it out.
[7:15:34] You're not able to pull him up? I'm not. I keep saying it's been removed.
[7:15:37] I'll click on one of them.
[7:15:41] Yeah, there it is.
[7:15:43] Just pop it up.
[7:15:45] I guess it just doesn't like my computer.
[7:15:50] It's taking a long time to load.
[7:15:52] Mine comes up and says it's been removed.
[7:15:55] Mine popped up.
[7:15:56] Mine says it's been removed.
[7:15:59] I did four times.
[7:16:02] That's my IT extent of my IT.
[7:16:05] It's as deep in IT design.
[7:16:09] All right, gentlemen, we ready to proceed, yes, sir.
[7:16:11] Okay, VB2.
[7:16:13] Mr. Shao, you recognize the present.
[7:16:15] Good afternoon.
[7:16:16] This is legislative.
[7:16:17] So no disclosures on this one.
[7:16:19] Good afternoon for the record.
[7:16:21] Jay Shao, committee department.
[7:16:23] The applicants are requesting on street vacation application.
[7:16:27] The ST-26-01.
[7:16:30] And today's hearing is adoption hearing.
[7:16:34] The requested street vacation is to vacate a portion of the Jupiter one-way adjacent to
[7:16:41] Laude's 60, Brock II, 035, Porsche Subdivine, Section 24, and Laude's 60 is located
[7:16:50] at 488 App Engine Drive in Cmd District 5. Sorry, District 4. And the side contains approximately
[7:17:00] three thousand three hundred six square feet.
[7:17:05] This is the general location of the subject property
[7:17:10] which is located in the Mid County area. This is the area image of the property in four range.
[7:17:21] This is a 2025 Eagle View image of the subject property. The property's future
[7:17:28] The famous map that's nation is low-density residential with residential single-family 3.5 zoning.
[7:17:37] The notification of public hearings has been sent to all property owners within the 1000 feet of the site boundary.
[7:17:46] The majority of the property located within Fraud Zone 9AE and the remainder is located within Fraud Zone X.
[7:17:55] and the majority of property is located outside of the coast of Ohio's area.
[7:18:02] The proposed street vacation overlaid on the area.
[7:18:06] So if approval, this street vacation application would allow for more
[7:18:12] deburple space on the property.
[7:18:15] However, the residential run rights, which is one unit,
[7:18:19] per out, will remain the same.
[7:18:21] So, no residents will be denied reasonable access to their properties or to the water.
[7:18:28] So, all appropriate departments have reviewed this application and all the affected utility have been notified.
[7:18:36] Three conditions are required by the rail station services and the public works, which are first.
[7:18:43] Within 90 days, following the board approve of this street vacation.
[7:18:47] The petitioners shall provide Sharkani public works with a recorded 24-canile mentionous
[7:18:55] easement.
[7:18:56] That is acceptable to the county attorney, and that Sharkan with the land, and transfer with
[7:19:03] any future commons of the property.
[7:19:06] And second condition, a pound recordation of the new canal mentionous easement, the petitioners
[7:19:14] child apply for the release of the existing recorded canal maintenance easement.
[7:19:21] And the third condition is that upon recommendation of the new canal maintenance easement,
[7:19:28] the petitioner's child apply for an occupational easement for the existing COO located within
[7:19:36] the newly recorded 24 canal maintenance easement.
[7:19:41] So, it is staff's professional pinning, that's a proposed street vacation.
[7:19:46] Position number, the ST-26-01 with recommended three conditions is general consistent with the county's comprehensive plan.
[7:19:56] The county's code of laws and oneness and any other applications.
[7:20:00] Thank you. I welcome and I'm open for any questions. Thank you.
[7:20:12] Okay, you can't speak unless you have a handout.
[7:20:16] I mean, you know that, well, if there's no objection from the board, we'll go ahead
[7:20:23] and play.
[7:20:25] And go, you can go ahead and speak on behalf of the applicant.
[7:20:29] Well, I'm Martian Noble.
[7:20:31] And I respectfully request that you approve our petition for the vacation.
[7:20:36] Okay.
[7:20:37] You've seen a name for the record, sir?
[7:20:39] James Noble.
[7:20:41] I'm her subuted.
[7:20:43] Your her subject matter expert.
[7:20:48] You've seen all the, you've seen the zoning board review. You've seen the staff review. I'm not going to believe it. I just hope you approved that and we stand by what we've said before in our application.
[7:21:00] Thank you. Mr. Concierge, you had a question for that.
[7:21:02] Just curious, so obviously the purpose is you want to extend the property to the waterfront is are you in the process of building and you want to do a pool or something?
[7:21:10] We have been building a house for four and a half years.
[7:21:13] We've run into other problems.
[7:21:17] We end up having to terminate our contract with our original
[7:21:20] builder because I can't really mention it,
[7:21:23] because we are in the precedents against it now.
[7:21:27] We have a new builder in these, trying to finish it.
[7:21:30] We've just received a seat of all from Charlotte County last week
[7:21:34] so we're in the right avenue.
[7:21:36] The reason we want to buy it is so that, you know, we can have more space that we own.
[7:21:43] We already have a sea ball. We have a dock and a boat lift. We don't have any money for the boat now.
[7:21:50] Sorry.
[7:21:51] And one of our things is we, our daughters and wheelchairs. We needed way of getting access down to the canal for it.
[7:21:57] Because there's a 16 to 12 foot decline.
[7:22:00] Well, and I know you think you don't have the can't be permanent. They have to be temporary
[7:22:05] But the beginning aspect where it has to be permanent. So let's what we're looking at
[7:22:10] Thank you very much. Unfortunately your first contractor has the boat now
[7:22:15] Yeah, any other questions for the applicant he needs the boot. Yeah, no needs the boot
[7:22:20] Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you very much. Thank you. We're gonna open this item up to the public for public input anybody from the public
[7:22:26] which in the speak on this item VB2, please come forward
[7:22:28] stage any for the record you'll have two minutes.
[7:22:31] Last call, anybody from the public on VB2, please come forward
[7:22:34] you'll have five minutes.
[7:22:34] Mr. Chairman, I said no one rising moved close public
[7:22:36] and second.
[7:22:37] Web motion, second to close the public input is there.
[7:22:40] Any further discussion?
[7:22:42] Any opposition to the motion?
[7:22:43] Public input is closed.
[7:22:44] Mr. Chairman, move a pro of VB2.
[7:22:46] Second.
[7:22:47] Web motion, second to approve VB2 is there any further discussion?
[7:22:50] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[7:22:51] That passes unanimously.
[7:22:52] We're on to VB3 that is quasi-judicial, anything to disclose, Commissioner Doge.
[7:23:01] Mission 2X.
[7:23:01] And I'll start.
[7:23:02] Commissioner Constance.
[7:23:02] No disclosure.
[7:23:04] Commissioner Doge.
[7:23:04] Yeah.
[7:23:05] Meeting with staff and I received an email and a letter.
[7:23:10] Actually a letter from the Burnstork Coalition in support.
[7:23:14] Yes.
[7:23:15] I met with staff and received some email correspondences.
[7:23:17] Well, I filed my paperwork.
[7:23:19] Mr. Shau, you're recognized to present.
[7:23:21] Good afternoon, again, good afternoon again for the record, J-H-L, Community Development Department and my planning
[7:23:28] expert qualifications attached to staff report as exhibit one.
[7:23:34] The applicant is requesting petition PD-25-13 and today's hearing is adoption hearing.
[7:23:42] The request to resume is from plan development PD for approximate 265 acres and the commercial
[7:23:50] general CG for approximately 12.55 acres to plan development PD in order to have a mixture of
[7:23:58] residential uses up to 999 units and commercial use up to 195,000 square feet requiring
[7:24:07] transfer of units for residential development above the base density of 26 units and the
[7:24:19] PD concept plan.
[7:24:21] The subject property is located in Commission District 2.
[7:24:26] The notification of public hearings for this application was sent to the property owner
[7:24:31] and adjacent property owners within 1,000 feet of the subject property.
[7:24:38] This is a general location of subject property which is located in the South County area.
[7:24:44] This is the area image of the property which is located east of Burntstone Road.
[7:24:51] The subject property includes 11 parcels and is located in the boundary of the Burntstone area.
[7:25:01] The site contains approximately 277.75 acres. On the screen, this is 2050 framework map, the entire site is designated as part of emerging neighborhood.
[7:25:17] The site is currently designated as Burnt store that is residential on the 2030, 3030 map.
[7:25:25] The subject property is don't plan development and CG.
[7:25:32] So on the screen, this is proposed PD for the entire site.
[7:25:37] So now I would like to provide a brief history of the subject property and the current uses.
[7:25:45] One parcel of the subject property located directly on Burnstone Road has been zoned commercial
[7:25:54] general CG and the property's future-end use map destination was amended from commercial
[7:26:01] quarter to vegetable residential as part of the Burnstone area plan.
[7:26:06] And renamed to Burnstone Village residential during the county's comprehensive plan
[7:26:12] rewrite in 2010.
[7:26:14] The PD is the only category to implement the intent of the Burnstone Village Residential
[7:26:20] Future Land Youth Math category.
[7:26:23] So in September 2007, the Board of Accounting Commissioners approved the amendment to the
[7:26:28] zoning access from agricultural states and the residential multi-family to plan development
[7:26:34] for the remaining 10 parcels of the subject property in order to allow for a residential
[7:26:42] department up to 999 units.
[7:26:48] And the associate PDC concept plan for that for this PDE expire on September
[7:26:54] 1928 based on the PDE zoning code in effect at that time. So in November 2022, the previous
[7:27:05] property owner submitted a request to extend the expired PDC concept.
[7:27:11] So on February 28, 2023, the board approved the extension request.
[7:27:17] So that means they have active PD for the site for 999 units, for 9 for 10 parcels.
[7:27:24] And there's one parcel facing Bernstil Road is on CG.
[7:27:30] To the north, they are vacant, cleaned, scattered single-family homes, and agricultural and
[7:27:36] use it.
[7:27:37] The base density is 1 unit, per 10 acres, or 1 unit per platelot, to the north of the
[7:27:42] site.
[7:27:43] First, the plant development was approved in 2021 for a mixed residential development of up to
[7:27:51] 140 units.
[7:27:54] The project is called Starling.
[7:27:56] And to the east of the subject property, I remarks since the late owned by the state of Florida.
[7:28:03] The property immediate to the south containing approximately 349.1 acres is approved for another residential
[7:28:12] development of up to 1,000 units without commercial use or mixed, mixed residential and commercial
[7:28:20] development of up to 466 units and 100,000 square feet of commercial, which has called
[7:28:28] a bit of coal, firelight, north.
[7:28:33] Cross-bursts road to the west is a heritage land in the environmental region impact, which
[7:28:40] allows for a mixture of residential up to 1,810 units and 20,000 square feet of office uses
[7:28:48] and 100,000, 500 square feet of retail uses, and 150 hotel rooms, which across street from
[7:28:58] the United States, 20.
[7:29:00] So African is requesting a mention for the PD rezoning for the entire site, so in order
[7:29:07] to have a mixture of residential and commercial, but keep that in mind, they have existing
[7:29:12] PD allows for 999 residential units.
[7:29:16] this PD rezoning, no change for the residential
[7:29:19] development rights, which approved 999.
[7:29:22] So it remains the same.
[7:29:24] The only change is for commercial general users
[7:29:26] added a mixed use component for 195,000 square feet.
[7:29:32] So the birth of the residential future land use map destination
[7:29:36] allows for commercial and institutional development,
[7:29:41] which is limited to 10% of the total
[7:29:43] the term area for the property.
[7:29:46] So as I mentioned before, the property contains approximately 277 acres.
[7:29:51] So the proposed approximate 17.91 acres of commercial area,
[7:29:58] equal 6.5.
[7:30:00] 5% of the property, and is width in the allowable 10%. So the proposed maximal commercial score,
[7:30:08] square footage, is 195,000 square feet for the proposed commercial uses, resulting in a
[7:30:17] frio ratio of approximately 0.25, which need the limitation in the burst of the residential
[7:30:25] allow us for commercial uses.
[7:30:29] So additionally, the applicant is proposing that up to 300 of the maximum 999 units
[7:30:37] may be used for recreational vehicle uses.
[7:30:41] So the property contains approximately 277 acres, which exceed the minimum 100 acre requirement
[7:30:49] for recreational vehicle uses for properties designated as Bernstow Village residential.
[7:30:57] Therefore, it is their professional opinion that the proposed development is consistent
[7:31:02] with the Bernstow Village residential future-land use map designation.
[7:31:10] So, basically,
[7:31:13] sorry, I already presented that.
[7:31:15] So, I have the sign to talk about 11 parcels and 11 for CG and 10 parcels for existing PD.
[7:31:24] So, based on the future land use policy from Part 6.2.10, natural resource connections,
[7:31:33] the proposed green way and wildlife corridors, wrong through the subject of property,
[7:31:38] you can see on the screen.
[7:31:39] So, according to the proposed general PD concept plan, which is showing on the screen, the
[7:31:46] submitted e-marmate report.
[7:31:48] So, the African proposed approximately 9.28 acres for wildlife corridor with a minimum
[7:31:58] width of 100 feet, which is here, this is the proposed wildlife corridor, and the proposed
[7:32:04] 75-foot green-wheat corals has been relocated, this is 7-5 feet green-wheat corals.
[7:32:12] There have been re-located to accommodate and align with the onsite, what then to the north and extend through the western side of the site.
[7:32:24] Connected to connected with off-site properties greenways to the south and align with stay on land to the south and east surrounding the site.
[7:32:34] I can imagine before here is a proposed 100 foot wildlife corridor is located along the southern
[7:32:42] boundary of the property which is consistent with wildlife corridor adjacent property to the
[7:32:49] west, so they are connected. The wildlife corridor from the subject property is connected to the
[7:32:57] if I like North, while I quote her.
[7:33:00] So now I would like to discuss some specific PD conditions in more detail.
[7:33:07] So the proposed PD condition C is established, permitted commercial and residential uses,
[7:33:14] and the PD transportation conditions K and L are proposed by staff to address the traffic
[7:33:21] concurrency and safety concerns, such as the maximum of four maximum of four access will be allowed on the subject property.
[7:33:36] And also they need me to the concurrency requirement.
[7:33:45] And also the PD condition P requires enhanced landscape and buffer requirements such as type B buffer instead of type A buffer between single family
[7:33:57] and multi-family uses, and a type A buffer instead of no buffer is required between single-family homes.
[7:34:04] So they will provide enhanced, then skipping the buffer.
[7:34:08] And also, condition Q requires five treatment elements for each primary facade instead of three treatment elements for commercial development.
[7:34:19] So they have higher standard of commercial design standard requirement.
[7:34:22] Also, condition R requires a habit of management plan to protect and preserve on site weapons.
[7:34:31] So also, condition S requires that the processing of the proposed green-week corridor shall be designed as an at-grade crossing to allow the passenger of animal using the corridor.
[7:34:47] So they have specific design to accommodate the animals.
[7:34:53] Yeah, I'm sorry. I got to stop you. Can you go back up a few slides?
[7:34:58] History of probably, let's start there.
[7:35:04] So this is a PD already and the majority of the site. They have 11 parcels and the 10 parcels are
[7:35:13] zoned PD and the one parcel is a long, facing Bernstow Road.
[7:35:18] This is CG. And now they want to incorporate it all into the busy, because they're going to rework it a little bit.
[7:35:25] So, they want to go from 999 to 1,000.
[7:35:31] Now, the residential is remained the same, 999 units, no change.
[7:35:37] For the residential demand rise, the only components they added is for the commercial.
[7:35:42] So, they will include commercial engineering uses up to 195,000 square feet,
[7:35:48] which is only 0.25 FAR.
[7:35:51] I thought I saw something about 26 additional.
[7:35:55] So...
[7:35:55] Are the base density is 26 units?
[7:35:57] Okay.
[7:35:58] So they still have to add density.
[7:35:59] They have the ability to do the 999.
[7:36:02] They have 26 less than that.
[7:36:04] No.
[7:36:05] They have 26 base density.
[7:36:07] Any residential development above 26 units.
[7:36:11] They are required to transfer.
[7:36:13] So we said another way.
[7:36:14] They still need to bring 973 units of density to this property in the network.
[7:36:24] Now go the next slide, so here's the problem I have, I see the I see the wildlife cord
[7:36:30] or that makes sense because they're using it at the very bottom part.
[7:36:34] You show that in the schematic.
[7:36:36] How are we incorporating the greenways into this map?
[7:36:40] Because you're showing me the greenway there but I don't see it on this detail or this site plan.
[7:36:48] Okay, and this is a proposed side plan right. I do one green way. This is a green way. We should consistent
[7:36:55] Wait this one here. That's one green way
[7:36:59] Well, but not exactly because exactly where that green line is there's houses and streets
[7:37:05] So your line should have been drawn a little bit higher. Do you understand what I'm saying your green line there is it does not know the bottom one
[7:37:13] Yeah, that does not match where you're showing me the green way is on this on the side plan
[7:37:18] Okay, one point out, Commissioner, because when we did that first or error playing at that time,
[7:37:24] we based on there's no ground choose for when we set the green ways and wildlife quarter.
[7:37:32] We just gave general location.
[7:37:34] So actually the location of exactly the proposed green way of wildlife quarter,
[7:37:39] or determined with the PD rezoning, has proposed side print because at that time,
[7:37:44] they would do the emergency assessment report.
[7:37:47] So we are known, we are on site wetland, so we are natural resources, so that's why the
[7:37:54] actually location of the greenways will determine that the PD rezoning stage.
[7:38:02] Because we have no part to go there, we want to do the burn store study, they have thousands
[7:38:07] of acres, the plan.
[7:38:09] So just the plan intention, we set up policy, we said we need the greenways, we needed the
[7:38:14] wildlife corridor, that just the general location.
[7:38:18] So your green lines here just represent a general schematic when the final plan is okay.
[7:38:23] So now go to the next one.
[7:38:26] So all right that green line is now a little bit higher.
[7:38:29] Is it going to force the other landowner to match up now?
[7:38:34] Because these guys came in first and says this is where the green way is established.
[7:38:39] Those guys are going to have to match up with wherever this green way is.
[7:38:42] They can't say we want the green way down here because there's no place.
[7:38:46] It's going to have to match up, is that correct?
[7:38:49] That's what General speaking is.
[7:38:50] Like I mentioned to the wildlife corridor.
[7:38:53] They located to the southern.
[7:38:54] They're actually connected with the wildlife north.
[7:38:58] They matched the wildlife corridor.
[7:38:59] They had to put it there because it matches.
[7:39:01] And everybody's on the boundary.
[7:39:02] So it makes sense.
[7:39:03] And also here is the green way.
[7:39:06] As you may see on land.
[7:39:08] And also they have the green way.
[7:39:10] They have green way.
[7:39:12] They realize they sound the...
[7:39:13] I'm sorry.
[7:39:13] That is state-owned land.
[7:39:14] Yes.
[7:39:15] To the middle west.
[7:39:16] To the west.
[7:39:16] All right.
[7:39:17] And also the did that mentioned based on the amount assessment report that they have
[7:39:24] an online, the wetland and they have adjacent wetland there.
[7:39:28] So that's why the altered the green way, the second green way.
[7:39:32] So that's the altered.
[7:39:34] Okay.
[7:39:35] Well, if you go back up to slide 11 or just go up three slides, maybe.
[7:39:41] Keep going.
[7:39:42] Huh?
[7:39:43] Yep.
[7:39:45] So I see the subject property and that brown square, that's state on land, but the other purple is a PD.
[7:39:54] So that PD is going to have to match up with somewhere on that state land to continue the greenway over.
[7:40:00] Is that correct? Yes. Okay, that's it. Thank you. I just want to know.
[7:40:07] I can recognize the continue. Okay. I have one more thing to talk. Actually, the applicant also proposed a specific sign requirement for commercial uses.
[7:40:19] So, it is staff's professional opinion that proposed PD rezoning with Condition A through W.
[7:40:26] A general system with all requirements and various goals, objectives and policies
[7:40:32] as set forth in the county's comprehensive plan.
[7:40:35] The intent and the vision of the Bernstor area plan and the intent of the Bernstor
[7:40:40] value residential fusion and use map designation and the county's code of law and
[7:40:45] and any other applicable guidelines.
[7:40:49] So the applicable agrees with all proposed BD conditions
[7:40:52] of being more happy to answer any questions you may have.
[7:40:56] Any questions for staff?
[7:40:58] Okay, applicant.
[7:40:59] Please state your name for the record.
[7:41:01] For the record, Dan Delise, I'm a Lange's planner here on behalf of the applicant
[7:41:05] and I do have a ticket to speak.
[7:41:10] The deputy of the BD.
[7:41:13] I haven't even watched in the drill.
[7:41:16] I have been.
[7:41:17] So what if he comes up and got it?
[7:41:19] Yeah, I missed that part.
[7:41:21] Didn't have this, but he left in heads.
[7:41:23] Yeah, he had somebody making up.
[7:41:26] That's a hurry to get me a handout.
[7:41:28] And what that is, is that's a letter from the Burnstore Coalition of Support.
[7:41:33] So I'm going to make this really simple.
[7:41:36] As I commissioned from a constant pointed out,
[7:41:41] The subject property is already entitled for 999 units.
[7:41:45] It's also entitled for commercial in that CG area.
[7:41:48] If you look at that CG area, the lot depth isn't a lot.
[7:41:52] So essentially we're combining the two.
[7:41:55] One consolidated zoning district.
[7:41:57] We're deepening the commercial to make it a more viable commercial use.
[7:42:03] So like a shopping center, type use, that's the depth you would need.
[7:42:07] We're really excited about what's likely to come to this site.
[7:42:11] Can't say anything now, but we're really excited about it.
[7:42:15] It's something that will provide a lot of services to the neighborhood.
[7:42:18] And we've worked really well with the Burnstore Coalition.
[7:42:22] They are here to speak on their behalf.
[7:42:25] And so I won't go any further on that.
[7:42:30] Just point out one aspect of the Burnstore plan.
[7:42:33] Those greenway corridors that you see, those were originally drawn because we had a point A and a point B.
[7:42:39] The point A was the state-owned lands to our east.
[7:42:41] The point B was what was then the turn bay DRI heritage landings.
[7:42:46] And so the idea was just to connect them up from the state-owned lands to what was going through the then turn bay DRI.
[7:42:54] We're accommodating all of that through this plan.
[7:42:57] And if you have any questions, we have a full team here.
[7:43:01] I know it's getting late in the evening, but we're all here to answer any questions if you need any questions for the applicant.
[7:43:08] Okay, thank you, sir.
[7:43:10] We're going to open this up to the public for public input.
[7:43:12] Anybody wishing you to speak on this item, please come forward.
[7:43:14] State your name for the record.
[7:43:15] You'll have five minutes.
[7:43:19] Here I am again.
[7:43:20] And this time I do not have a handout.
[7:43:23] So I'm going to be allowed to speak.
[7:43:25] I have a really big question.
[7:43:26] I have a button right here.
[7:43:27] I can cut your mic off.
[7:43:30] You're recognized.
[7:43:31] I actually had sent out something because we had a special meeting of the coalition yesterday morning via Zoom and there were some questions.
[7:43:42] Now, first of all, I want to say the letters that you have in front of you, which I believe is dated March the 26th, still stands.
[7:43:50] We are absolutely 100% behind this development.
[7:43:54] However, when we went back over and re-read some of the items in it, we had some questions,
[7:44:03] which were reflected in the email that I sent out earlier.
[7:44:09] However, Jay has done an extremely good job in answering all of those questions, so thank
[7:44:15] you Jay.
[7:44:17] The only thing that she didn't mention, or I didn't hear it, is the fact that as part
[7:44:22] believe the PD agreement is that signalization will be put in at the intersection of heritage
[7:44:30] landing and where the commercial development is for Sage Point once the occupancy permitting
[7:44:41] has reached 300. Yes, 300 residential eye any commercial. And the other thing I understand
[7:44:47] is that there are efforts being made in behalf on the part of both Sage Point and Firelight
[7:44:55] North to do some internal interconnectivity.
[7:45:00] So that it will reduce the number of travelers on the road trying to reach the commercial development.
[7:45:08] And that was part of the crisis.
[7:45:10] So I did not specifically address that to Transportation Conditioning K and L.
[7:45:14] That can mention the maximum access you can see on the screen.
[7:45:17] The show five access point on Burnstone Road, but actually the maximum is four.
[7:45:23] So if they can work with Sage, not Sage, or work with Firelight Knors, so they will remove
[7:45:31] their one axis, their axis to burn store route to the most northern axis.
[7:45:37] And then they will use this axis and this axis will be removed.
[7:45:42] But if they could not work with the Firelight Knors, so then they will still only have
[7:45:49] access, the maximum of the full. So the only scene is depending on the location of the
[7:45:54] access. Thank you. So anyhow, what I'd like to end up with saying is that the need for meaningful
[7:46:01] commercial development, including a regional grocery store to serve the rapidly growing population.
[7:46:10] At the southern end of Burnstour Road in Charlotte County, remains a primary concern for the coalition,
[7:46:17] and we will continue to support any efforts from that end.
[7:46:23] We do hope that the developers, the Sage Point, continue to involve the coalition.
[7:46:29] They have really been delightful to work with.
[7:46:32] Thank you very much.
[7:46:33] Thank you, your comments.
[7:46:34] Anybody else from the public, which in speak on this item, please come forward to
[7:46:36] stage your name for the record.
[7:46:37] You'll have five minutes.
[7:46:49] Good afternoon.
[7:46:51] I see some of us.
[7:46:54] We have the property directly that smacks center of the...
[7:46:57] If you go to 46, can you speak into the mic a little bit closer and repeat your name again?
[7:47:05] The Nasi Samarass, Samarass, Tomasi Samarass.
[7:47:10] You can bring the microphone up a little bit.
[7:47:12] There you go.
[7:47:13] So we have the property adjacent on the north side there in the middle to the subject property.
[7:47:22] And we currently have an open boundary dispute with the applicant as to where the 1267 feet,
[7:47:31] where the northern driveway is going in.
[7:47:37] That's currently our driveway.
[7:47:40] And I think it may impact the development.
[7:47:43] I'm not sure.
[7:47:44] During the process, there have been multiple surveys done.
[7:47:49] and they keep getting farther and farther north into our property.
[7:47:54] So now I think it's within 15 plus or minus feet
[7:47:58] where the applicant claims that the driveway belongs to them.
[7:48:05] The very first survey that was done,
[7:48:08] I went and spoke to the gentleman,
[7:48:10] and he clearly found the pin that was there.
[7:48:13] The original pin, which shows that our property,
[7:48:15] that the drivers within our property,
[7:48:20] the applicant sent us a letter that the property belongs
[7:48:23] to them, they're going to put a wall read down to read down the driveway and we don't have access
[7:48:29] to our property or house.
[7:48:33] And if that's a fact, when the county purchased the land to expand
[7:48:38] Bernstor Road, that means that they bought property from us that belonged to them and they paid their own person.
[7:48:47] The county did a survey when they purchased a land to expand Bernstor Road, so it doesn't make sense that the boundary doesn't match up.
[7:48:57] After speaking to four different surveyors, and the applicant actually, they also had the same thing.
[7:49:04] service on your professional opinion at the end of the day the judge will decide what their
[7:49:11] boundary should be.
[7:49:17] Either way we feel we shouldn't have to face a costly litigation
[7:49:21] for a driver that has been there for decades.
[7:49:27] And basically put the applicant himself
[7:49:29] that he has deep pockets with it's not going to get us anywhere. We ask you to delay making
[7:49:34] in the decision until we can come to a conclusion in agreement on how we can access our house
[7:49:40] at Bernstow Road,
[7:49:44] right now there are two driveways in front of the property, but they claim
[7:49:49] that both of them are most of one and the other will both belong to them. Thank you.
[7:49:54] Thank you, sir.
[7:49:56] Annabelle, switch and speak on this item. Please come forward, state your name for the record.
[7:49:59] You'll have five minutes.
[7:50:00] Last call, anybody who wishes to speak on this item, please come forward. You'll have five minutes.
[7:50:05] Mr. Chairman, I see no one else rising and moved close public input.
[7:50:08] Second, we're motion, second, to close public input. Is there any further discussion? Is there any opposition to the motion? Public input's closed.
[7:50:16] Okay.
[7:50:20] Commissioner Dorty.
[7:50:22] A question for the county attorney, I guess, relative to apparently there's a boundaries dispute this litigation going on.
[7:50:29] Does that factor at all into anything we have to think about today?
[7:50:33] Commissioner, my opinion would be no.
[7:50:38] The application is based on a professional submittal by a surveyor who is licensed in the state.
[7:50:46] So, surveyors do have disputes.
[7:50:48] So, I think the gentleman is correct that a court would make the final determination.
[7:50:52] And then the PD would have to be modified at some point within our hearing.
[7:50:57] If the boundaries changed.
[7:50:59] So in other words, if there was a, if there was a change to the PD's, you know, boundary lines that impacted the PD plan and would have to go through modification, whether that be minor or major would depend on, you know, what the type was.
[7:51:15] I wanted to get it on the record.
[7:51:16] Yes, sir.
[7:51:17] Yeah.
[7:51:17] Apologize, gentlemen, the applicant has an opportunity to rebut or come forward.
[7:51:20] Do you have anything to say?
[7:51:22] The applicant.
[7:51:23] Good afternoon.
[7:51:24] Okay.
[7:51:25] You know, Montgomery for the record.
[7:51:28] We've had more than one survey done.
[7:51:30] There's also a survey that was done by at, well,
[7:51:35] and the boundary has shown on the, excuse me,
[7:51:37] PDPAN is correct.
[7:51:40] The applicant did try to reach out to the neighbor
[7:51:43] to explain that there was a problem,
[7:51:45] reached out in September of last year,
[7:51:47] reached out in October of last year,
[7:51:50] November of last year, December,
[7:51:52] sent a fed up package with the survey, tried to resolve how if they'd like to work with the applicant
[7:52:00] on the and reached out again in January of this year and they basically said no so we're going to rely on the survey that was submitted
[7:52:09] by out well that's we have one by out well in another but but it's the certified survey so
[7:52:16] it it's down for what it says unless you just some question I can hand it to you
[7:52:21] I know you want another hand, though.
[7:52:25] You said your name was Neil Montgomery?
[7:52:27] Yes, sir.
[7:52:29] Did you buy any chance to write the Boca Grand Parking
[7:52:31] Ordnance for Lee County?
[7:52:36] You don't hear the answer.
[7:52:39] I can read that from your expression.
[7:52:41] No, I did not write it.
[7:52:43] I did provide input.
[7:52:46] I have a bone to pick with you, but not at this time.
[7:52:49] Not at this time, I won't conflate the issues.
[7:52:53] Commissioner Constance, it's your reckoning.
[7:52:55] I have a memory, believe me, like a whale, maybe they say.
[7:52:59] Commissioner Constance, it's your reckoning.
[7:53:01] Mr. Chairman, moving ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners
[7:53:04] from Charlotte County, Florida,
[7:53:05] amending the Charlotte County Zoning Atlas
[7:53:07] from Plan Development PD, 265 plus minus acres
[7:53:12] and general, commercial, general, CG, 12.55 plus minus acres
[7:53:17] to plan development PD in order to have a mixture of residential uses up to 999 residential
[7:53:24] units and commercial uses up to 195,000 square feet. We're acquiring transfer of density units
[7:53:30] for residential development above the base density of 26 units and adopting a general PD concept
[7:53:36] plan for property, including 11 parcels located at 1-429-0.
[7:53:42] 1-431-0.
[7:53:44] 1-430.
[7:53:45] 1-433-0.
[7:53:47] 1-433-480.
[7:53:51] 1-440.
[7:53:53] 1-440.
[7:53:54] 1-440.
[7:53:57] 1-440.
[7:54:00] And 2-6101-Zemo Road in the Ponegord area within the boundary of the
[7:54:05] storm area plan area containing 277.55 plus or minus acres, Charlie County, Florida, Commission
[7:54:14] District 2, position PD, dash 25, dash 13, applicant, burnt store, road, ret, LEC, providing
[7:54:23] effective date to second.
[7:54:26] We have a motion, it's next to approved the ordinance.
[7:54:28] Is there any further discussion?
[7:54:29] Yeah, I said, yeah, I said I have a pretty like the way all I meant to say all of it.
[7:54:33] I meant to say elephant, not well, but that's what happens when you've been sitting in it since 9 a.m. in the morning.
[7:54:42] So we have a motion in a second to move the ordinance. Is there any further discussion?
[7:54:47] Is there any opposition to the motion? That passage unanimously.
[7:54:50] We'll move on to VB4.
[7:54:52] Application Z-23-35-17 Jackson Fisher LLC-CG Resoning.
[7:54:58] this is quasi-idude.
[7:55:00] withdrawal,orum, miniatur, doggg anything to disclose. Okay, commitments about scenario.
[7:55:09] All right. Cominci gelenings to try and to do statements with chair.
[7:55:10] Had my monthly staff anything with committee development and the Attorney's office in public works and files
[7:55:16] forgotten. I had my meetings with staff! Receive pre Umfalied for my paperwork.
[7:55:23] Mister Shaw, you recognize to present.
[7:55:26] This is again.
[7:55:27] for the record, J. Shell, Committee Development Department, and my planning export
[7:55:33] qualification is attached to staff report as exhibit one.
[7:55:38] The applicant is requesting application Z-23-35-17 and today's hearing is adoption
[7:55:46] hearing. The request to resume is from residential state RE1 to commercial general
[7:55:54] and the subject property located in Commission District 2.
[7:56:00] The notification of public hearing for these application was sent to the property owner and adjacent property owners within 1,000 feet of the subject property.
[7:56:12] This is general location of the subject property which is located in the South County area.
[7:56:18] The subject property located east side of Bernstow Road in the Pondigold area, and within the boundary of Bernstow area plan, it contains approximately 41.31 acres.
[7:56:33] This is 2050 for a more map, the site is designated as part of emerging neighborhood.
[7:56:39] I
[7:56:43] would I provide a brief history count on the screen on September 10th, 2024.
[7:56:48] The board approved the request to small scale amendment to commercial by ordinance number
[7:56:54] 2024-028 limiting the prior ratio to 0.35.
[7:57:02] The board also approved the applicant's request to continue the rezoning application to an
[7:57:10] specified date to address outstanding traffic issue with staff. So you can see this is the
[7:57:19] 2030 Future Land News map. The site is designated as a commercial. And this is the
[7:57:25] current zoning, the site is zone to residential state one and the proposed zoning is CG.
[7:57:32] The comprehensive plan requires that Sharkandi treat amendment to the Zomi as quasi-judicial
[7:57:40] actions and review all rezoning applications for consistent consistency with the county's
[7:57:48] comprehensive plan, as well as for potential adverse impacts on neighboring properties and
[7:57:53] their owners with whether public or private.
[7:57:56] In addition, the rezoning applications require that traffic impact study address the number
[7:58:04] of vehicle trips that may be generated at full build-out, consistent with approved future
[7:58:10] and use map designation and proposed zoning.
[7:58:15] So I want to show on the screen, this is County's Complain Policy, Specific Transportation
[7:58:22] Parliament policy 1.1, level of service standards shows on the screen. You can see that
[7:58:31] requires that the county shall maintain minimum level of service standards on the system
[7:58:37] set forth in the table. You can see a lattice cell.
[7:58:41] Generally speaking, the Bernstow Road is the adopted level of service SD.
[7:58:49] So this is the policy
[7:58:52] transportation policy 1.1.2 alarm orders, so which requires that the county shall deny any
[7:59:02] alarm order, which the alarm order they have, they still have definition, what considered
[7:59:07] the alarm order. So the reason only is one type of alarm orders, that will reduce any road within
[7:59:15] the county below the level of services standards established in transportation policy 1.1.1,
[7:59:23] except where the department is vested on the law
[7:59:26] or provides adequate mitigation pursuant to stay
[7:59:30] of county regulations.
[7:59:34] So according to submitted revised traffic impact analysis.
[7:59:40] So if future commercial department on the site is limited
[7:59:44] to less than 300,000, one square feet.
[7:59:48] No additional level of service deficiency anticipated
[7:59:52] and search department would generally be consistent with the county's comprehensive plan.
[8:00:00] If future commercial government on the site ranges between 300,000 and 629,800, 12.26 square feet, the existing county roadway network cannot support the proposed CG Resonement.
[8:00:19] So, it requires the reasoning to the conventional CG in zoning district that is not required
[8:00:25] a demand proposal, same plan, or concept plan as part of the application, which means
[8:00:32] the specific uses and amount of development that could occur under the request CG zoning
[8:00:39] unknown at this time.
[8:00:42] So that concludes my presentation, I'd be more happy to answer any questions, you may have.
[8:00:47] Thank you.
[8:00:48] thank you any questions for staff. Okay we'll go right to the applicant who's been standing
[8:00:52] by for the last five minutes. Mr. Green, you're recognized.
[8:00:55] A few more hours than that sir. So we're standing at the podium for myself.
[8:01:00] No, no problem. I just want to be ready to go.
[8:01:02] In the two ways your hand out. I've already done that. In respect to your time, I would like to have
[8:01:10] a shortened presentation what I was going to do. What I would respectfully request is you
[8:01:14] for me opportunity, whether or not just through responding,
[8:01:18] but also to introduce additional evidence and documentation
[8:01:21] that I'm going to cut out of here for the beginning.
[8:01:23] I would just like to reserve that for later if needed.
[8:01:25] Just to kind of speed this up and see where we go.
[8:01:29] If that's okay with you.
[8:01:31] So good evening, I started here earlier this afternoon.
[8:01:34] As said, my name is Jason Green, I'm a Planning Director for Access
[8:01:36] Infrastructure, I've been a planner and Florida for 23 years.
[8:01:40] I do have significant experience in both public and private sector.
[8:01:43] I'd direct a team of planners and provide expert to use an advice to multiple Florida communities including
[8:01:47] comprehensive plans, land development codes, site development reviews, and all the bells and whistles that you guys provide.
[8:01:54] I have been recognized in expert witness here in another communities before you, so stop there.
[8:01:59] I do have about 17 handouts to hand, I'm just kidding, I'm just going.
[8:02:02] We don't have any handouts, if that's okay, we'll continue.
[8:02:05] First thing I want to address is we would like to request that all of the previous public
[8:02:11] testimony and presentations and documentation from the previous hearings from both the planning
[8:02:16] commission and the previous county commission meeting be brought forward and connected
[8:02:21] to this to this review. It was a staff representative that was a continuation of that hearing.
[8:02:29] And so those documents and those items are relevant to this request.
[8:02:35] So point of information, I guess, you've been here since 2 o'clock?
[8:02:39] Yes sir.
[8:02:39] I'm so sorry.
[8:02:40] 152.
[8:02:41] Well, at least I know you're sworn in.
[8:02:42] That's good.
[8:02:42] Yes sir.
[8:02:44] But if that's the request, that's not attached.
[8:02:48] So I don't know how I get it.
[8:02:52] Okay.
[8:02:53] Yeah.
[8:02:54] Tom David County Attorney.
[8:02:56] We did not get that request.
[8:02:59] And I don't know.
[8:03:01] I don't think Jay's use of the word continuation was a procedural continuation because we did not continue that hearing.
[8:03:10] There was no board action continuing that hearing that I remember.
[8:03:13] There was sir, and that was to a date uncertain for unspecified for a later date.
[8:03:17] We will have to work with the clerk.
[8:03:22] That's why I have to try to do that.
[8:03:23] And you're going to have to help us with that because we are this record will not be complete tonight.
[8:03:29] It's going to have to be completed to because we don't have those documents with us right now.
[8:03:33] Essentially, you have testimony for own residents.
[8:03:35] You have presentations by the staff.
[8:03:37] The testimony though is not in any format.
[8:03:39] It's going to just be the video.
[8:03:41] There's no transcript, right?
[8:03:43] You're meeting minutes.
[8:03:44] I don't know when else you haven't eaten.
[8:03:46] You're limiting it to the meeting minutes.
[8:03:48] And what's a normal on the website that we can certainly reference that.
[8:03:51] Okay.
[8:03:51] And the record and I'll work with the clerk.
[8:03:53] I appreciate that.
[8:03:54] Okay.
[8:03:54] So let me go back to again point of information.
[8:03:56] on that point is, if you read our minutes, all it says is that somebody spoke about something.
[8:04:02] There's no opinions, there's no information, there's no data, so those minutes are very thin.
[8:04:07] I just want you to understand. It's understood four paragraphs for however many people came
[8:04:12] up and spoke. It may list names and what they spoke about, but not which way they spoke.
[8:04:18] It's very, it's thin. Yep. Okay. We have audio recordings. We have video. There's other things.
[8:04:24] if necessary that can be drawn on. I just wanted to make that point that your previous meeting
[8:04:28] was a joint of the future land use map and rezoning. So it kind of muddies the record a
[8:04:33] little bit. So I'm forced to kind of have that record drawn forward to today and be part of
[8:04:38] this moving forward. So thank you for that. I appreciate that. I'll skip the next request and we
[8:04:45] won't do that in a similar. I wanted to jump in and discuss the staff report. We obviously
[8:04:51] we disagree with the assessment from the staff and Jay has touched on some things that are in the comprehensive plan.
[8:04:58] What's being presented to you?
[8:05:00] It's simply a rezoning to one of your identified commercial districts within your land development code that is an implementing zoning district within a commercial category, which you had proved last year.
[8:05:12] Everything that you've heard from staff and was presented by our team, including the traffic impact analysis, includes the restricted FAR that you adopted as part of that future land use map amendment.
[8:05:25] There's some language, I want to thank staff for meeting with us first because during this
[8:05:30] when the staff report came out a little bit, we set down with them and discuss the word
[8:05:34] concurrency.
[8:05:35] And that term was very prevalent in previous staff reports.
[8:05:38] And that is not what we are asking for, we're not asking for certification of that, we're
[8:05:42] not asking for verification of concurrency.
[8:05:44] That concurrency is what comes of a later date and in court court and your code comes with
[8:05:50] construction, it's a final site development approval, and building permits.
[8:05:56] And that is pursuing it with your section 3-5-335 subsection 3 of your land development code.
[8:06:03] So unfortunately, staff has relied on this term development order to essentially apply a concurrency standard.
[8:06:11] And in our opinion, based on stay statute, based on your copy and supplant in your land development codes,
[8:06:16] that is not what applies in this case with a rezoning.
[8:06:22] Yes, the traffic impact analysis, identified deficiencies based on the maximum
[8:06:28] square footage in the maximum type of use, it also recognized that there is
[8:06:33] improvements that can be done to get rid of that deficiency and that's what
[8:06:38] we're required to do. That is the standard. Previously, I mentioned about the
[8:06:42] staff report on the other application last year. If you remember that
[8:06:46] discussion was about whether the traffic study was up to staff's standards or not, that
[8:06:51] is a methodology issue.
[8:06:53] It was never a concurrency issue that was ever brought up, and even today that issue
[8:06:56] has never come up until this discussion.
[8:06:59] So I would appreciate it if staff, whether it's Robby or Robber or somebody could also
[8:07:03] on the record agree and state that we have submitted the staff report that are actually
[8:07:08] being a traffic impact analysis that has been found by staff to be consistent with their methodology
[8:07:13] and accepted.
[8:07:14] And that's an important distinction between that and this concurrency
[8:07:17] disruption that we're talking about.
[8:07:22] Next, I just want to talk about some things that you talked about this morning, frankly.
[8:07:26] This spurred store area you've been hearing for years about a need for commercial.
[8:07:31] You've just approved before our application, you just approved additional commercial to kind
[8:07:36] of fulfill that need.
[8:07:37] This morning, you talked about Metro forecasting in the future demands.
[8:07:41] And essentially what that said is your future land use map and your plan for growth
[8:07:45] right now do not meet your demands and that is a statutory obligation that you're required to
[8:07:50] provide and I heard great things out of you this morning talking about we need to move forward
[8:07:55] Commissioner to say I think you made that point too we need to use our future land use map
[8:07:59] guide development figure out where these things are going to go you've done that we're here today to
[8:08:04] clean up the zoning side of it and make sure that the zoning that's within that commercial
[8:08:08] category is consistent with your future with your comprehensive planning future land use right now
[8:08:12] are you on, it's not consistent.
[8:08:18] Just a point of the 300,000 square feet, and Jason, all this
[8:08:21] series are traffic expert and a land use plan are also, and you can
[8:08:24] talk about this a little more detail, but we don't know where that
[8:08:27] 300,000 square feet conversation came from.
[8:08:29] That's not what the traffic impact analysis says is that at this
[8:08:32] number, then that.
[8:08:34] So I'm not sure where staff got that in reading the impact assessment.
[8:08:39] There is a point at some point in every traffic study where
[8:08:42] If it triggers a level of service issue, and you back off the square footage, sure, it could
[8:08:48] get everything under the threshold.
[8:08:50] But that's what your concurrency is for at the end of the process as we're building out.
[8:08:54] This is to phrase the flag and say, is there a potentially an issue in the future?
[8:08:58] Is there something that we can look at and monitor, or how do we go about and identify ways
[8:09:03] to make the improvements that you meet your level of service?
[8:09:06] That can be done through developer contributions and construction.
[8:09:10] that can be done through developer agreements, that can be done through your capital improvement plan.
[8:09:15] There's many ways under state law and under your plan that those things can be satisfied at the time of development.
[8:09:23] And I'm desperately trying not to put on my reading glasses, so there we go.
[8:09:29] So Jason's going to provide some commentary on that in just a few minutes.
[8:09:33] What I really want to get to now at this point is in the staff report, it's a little bit buried in there, but it's on stage 13.
[8:09:40] begins the section that talks about the criteria for evaluating a reason. I believe
[8:09:46] it's section five in the part five, excuse me, for approval criteria. These five
[8:09:52] items are what you as a commission or previous commissions have adopted in your
[8:09:57] and development code as criteria for which to do that.
[8:10:00] We evaluate the rezoning application, just these five items. And it's really important that when you're
[8:10:06] doing a findings, because the staff report calls them findings that were making findings, whether
[8:10:11] it's inconsistent or not consistent, or is consistent, or what section of code are we talking
[8:10:16] about? And unfortunately I would say that this section of the staff report does not do that,
[8:10:20] and does not address that. So I'd like to address those things as a professional plan has been
[8:10:24] writing these things for 23 years, address our review in our opinion of these findings.
[8:10:30] So number 21, section 21, part 5 in the staff report, it's A through D, and it starts
[8:10:36] on 13 and 14, there's A.
[8:10:38] Would the proposed changes be consistent with the comprehensive plan?
[8:10:41] Well, one, you've changed the future land use map to commercial to implement future commercial
[8:10:47] zoning.
[8:10:48] So the answer to that is yes, and a reasonable general is an implementing zoning district for
[8:10:53] the commercial future land use category.
[8:10:55] The commercial future land use category is primarily made up
[8:10:58] of commercial general zoning throughout this county.
[8:11:01] In addition, consistent with, as I mentioned,
[8:11:04] Mr. Cohen mentioned this earlier,
[8:11:05] Mr. Cohen and made testimony a couple of years ago
[8:11:08] on a project that I'm standing here listening to,
[8:11:10] that when you have something like an R E zoning
[8:11:12] and another future land use category such as
[8:11:15] commercial industrial, those are no longer consistent.
[8:11:18] You have to change that R E one to be consistent
[8:11:21] with the future land use map.
[8:11:25] Be, the existing land use pattern in the adjacent areas.
[8:11:28] That's a criteria to evaluate.
[8:11:30] As I mentioned, the BFCC is approved
[8:11:31] with the future commercial future land use category.
[8:11:34] In 2024, this change along with the request
[8:11:37] to rezone commercial general is consistent
[8:11:38] with a pattern to development along the Burnstork corridor.
[8:11:42] There are related uses and zoning districts
[8:11:44] in the north of the subject site.
[8:11:46] The site is also in a general location
[8:11:48] identified by Metro Forecasting as needed for a future commercial center and that report that
[8:11:54] you talked about and looked at today and includes larger tracks as being a need.
[8:11:59] You have small plated lots everywhere in the county.
[8:12:02] It's difficult to consolidate and create larger commercial tracks.
[8:12:07] I think actually some of your discussion was about Westport and some other places that years
[8:12:12] that you've gone through to try to make sure that these properties get consolidated and developed
[8:12:16] in a more reasonable manner.
[8:12:19] We have that.
[8:12:19] This property, obviously, is sitting right in the middle of birch store.
[8:12:23] Road in birch store area.
[8:12:24] It's 41 acres and can be developed.
[8:12:27] It's the width.
[8:12:27] The length.
[8:12:28] Everything needs what you would want for a commercial project.
[8:12:32] See, the capacity of public facilities and services, including the limited schools, roads, recreation
[8:12:37] facilities, water treatment, water supply and storm water drainage.
[8:12:41] You evaluate the capacity.
[8:12:43] We've done that.
[8:12:44] It's been accepted by your staff.
[8:12:45] as being the methodology correct, it does identify that at max buildout that there's triggers
[8:12:53] some level of service issues. It also recognizes that with improvements, it would fix that
[8:12:58] level of service issue and it would be compliant with the levels of service. Those are things
[8:13:02] that get detailed during the site development plan. How and when you make those improvements whether
[8:13:06] it's widening, intersection improvements, traffic lights, whatever it may be. Those are the things
[8:13:12] they get down there. D, would the proposed change adversely influence living conditions on property
[8:13:19] values in adjacent areas? Unfortunately, this is a section that the staff report seems to
[8:13:23] focus on the number of uses, allowed by the commercial general zoning district. The commentary
[8:13:28] in the staff is some of the uses can generate significant traffic volumes. That count is irrelevant
[8:13:33] to this question. The traffic has already been discussed and asked. This section is about
[8:13:39] with the proposed change of zoning and uses adversely influence.
[8:13:44] You just approve, and actually, I actually focus
[8:13:46] on the number of uses that are within your zoning district.
[8:13:49] There's a couple places in the staff report
[8:13:50] where it talks about 43 uses allowed.
[8:13:54] You adjust the data PD that allowed the same 43 uses
[8:13:58] in what was the commercial general area,
[8:14:00] and in their area.
[8:14:02] That's not detrimental.
[8:14:03] There's nothing in that commercial general
[8:14:05] that is life-threatening, life-altering,
[8:14:07] where we'd cause any influence conditions to people.
[8:14:11] In addition, there's no residential developments around this site.
[8:14:15] It's protected from them with a four-lane road across the street
[8:14:19] and near some other commercial uses.
[8:14:21] CG itself does not create a traffic issue.
[8:14:24] Obviously, the development of zoning districts creates traffic impacts
[8:14:27] and we're already saying that we're fully aware of that
[8:14:29] and we'll address those.
[8:14:31] And then would the proposed change affect public safety?
[8:14:34] Conversely, zoning itself does an effect public safety.
[8:14:38] I think that it's been recognized that residential has more demand on the public safety services.
[8:14:43] Commercial has less generally, it also creates greater taxable values to support those public safety services.
[8:14:52] So my response and professional opinion is that it does not create a situation for your public safety.
[8:14:58] Jason, do you want to talk about that?
[8:15:00] Traffic a little bit. So I'm going to turn over Jason, not only to just address briefly the traffic impact assessment, and maybe some of the comments from staff.
[8:15:09] Thank you, Jason, at the principal planning analytics. I did the traffic analysis for the project.
[8:15:16] Jason's covered a lot of information, a lot of good information here.
[8:15:21] I think the main thing that we want to consider at tonight's hearing is this is just a high level analysis when you're doing the reasoning.
[8:15:30] You could have a variety of uses that will go in there.
[8:15:33] We do not have, at this time, any site plan that is planned for the project location.
[8:15:41] So really what we're looking at is, is the proposed zoning district consistent with the
[8:15:46] adopted future land use map?
[8:15:49] And yes, it is.
[8:15:50] Is the property located within the urban service area?
[8:15:53] Of course it is.
[8:15:54] Whether public facilities are provided to the site, water, sewer, roadways.
[8:15:59] there. In fact, Burt Store Road, this is, you know, one of the things that's surprising
[8:16:06] that we had reached a little bit of opposition on the CG zoning, Burt Store Road has over
[8:16:12] 15,000 vehicles passing by at the segment immediately adjacent to the site every day.
[8:16:19] So, again, the traffic impact statement evaluates a maximum of maximums. Once we come in,
[8:16:29] But once the applicant works with an entity to actually build on the site, we'll submit a new traffic impact statement.
[8:16:38] At that time, we're going to analyze the access, we're going to do a more detailed study.
[8:16:44] You just have to evaluate this very broadly and very generally when you've got a 40-acre site, and you don't know what the use is going to be.
[8:16:53] But at the same time, you want to make sure that we can preserve these sites in the future.
[8:16:59] As Jason mentioned, you guys are well aware of the GDC legacy that exists here along US-41 and State Route 776.
[8:17:07] And so you have a lot of parcels that, you know, I mean, with the exception of like Sant Hill, DRI or Murdoch, DRI, those increments,
[8:17:15] they can't really accommodate the newer, more modern style of development of retailers and commercial entities.
[8:17:22] So you've got this revolving situation of small entities going in, being shoehorned into these small parcels and trying to make a go of it.
[8:17:33] So we are going to be at the time a site plan, some middle, will come back with a traffic impact analysis.
[8:17:41] And if there are any deficiencies that are identified at that time, we will address them through a safety standpoint, through a concurrency standpoint.
[8:17:50] You know, if it's targeting impact fees for specific capacity,
[8:17:55] adding improvements, developer agreements,
[8:17:57] developer agreement, I believe Jason's already mentioned that.
[8:18:01] So, you know, today's decision is one item.
[8:18:04] You know, is commercial zoning appropriate, you know,
[8:18:08] for this future land use designation.
[8:18:15] The, it's a little bit surprising.
[8:18:17] We looked at the Sage project because it seems almost like a different set of standards.
[8:18:23] were used for sage than what we're used for this potential, this project.
[8:18:30] Again, you know, they're going to have to do a concurrency review at the time they come in with their
[8:18:34] site plan. We have to do a concurrency review. There's another bite at the Apple.
[8:18:39] And as you guys have mentioned previously, you have professional staff that is very well,
[8:18:46] you know, research their very knowledgeable in this area and we've worked with them in the past.
[8:18:51] And so they will identify any potential deficiencies
[8:18:55] that might exist from future development on the site.
[8:18:59] So again, Jason, I brought this up about the commercial need.
[8:19:02] There's definitely commercial need.
[8:19:04] This is the opportunity, I think, right now,
[8:19:08] to make the zoning consistent with underlying land use
[8:19:11] and ensure that this parcel, thanks to the applicant
[8:19:16] for bringing this forward.
[8:19:17] And sure that you have a commercial parcel available for all of these residential developments
[8:19:25] that have been approved in the area.
[8:19:27] I mean, as we've mentioned previously, you know, a couple years ago with the compound amendment.
[8:19:34] You know, this site is about eight miles from a shopping center in Cape Coral of Pine Island Road.
[8:19:40] It's about eight miles from the commercial on-clave.
[8:19:43] They're in Ponegora at Jones Loop,
[8:19:45] at Mark's Store at Jones Loop, and U.S. 41.
[8:19:49] So this is the moment in time to act and make sure
[8:19:53] that we preserve this parcel for commercial development,
[8:19:56] because as you know, residential and non-residential.
[8:20:00] General interaction. This is a huge opportunity for shorter trips. So I want to let Jason wrap up. He's only
[8:20:06] got about three minutes. So thank you very much for your time. I'm available if you have any questions.
[8:20:11] Thank you, Jason. I do want to thank Roddy and Robert. They were tirelessly with us. It's a big site.
[8:20:18] They worked with us with us TIA and I can't thank them enough for working to take a couple of months, but I guess we got it finally.
[8:20:24] So, I will wrap up in just saying closing in my professional opinion as a land use planner.
[8:20:30] It's over two decades of experience that this rezoning is consistent with your comprehensive plan and your land development code.
[8:20:36] It is the implementing zoning district.
[8:20:38] It's consistent with the zoning's you just approved and with what's around us.
[8:20:43] And I think not only are you short on your commercial and I think,
[8:20:48] I'm sure to say, you also pointed it out, that there was a loss of commercial acreage along this corridor specifically because the stormwater.
[8:20:53] So not only have we not added new, we've reduced and lost some acreage over time also.
[8:20:59] So without I will respect, I'll complete my presentation and if you have any questions, I'm very happy to answer.
[8:21:05] Just for the record commissioner, Consas made that comment.
[8:21:07] I'm sorry.
[8:21:08] I commented on his comment.
[8:21:10] And we pointed that out last year.
[8:21:11] So I'm very excited to hear that.
[8:21:13] Any questions for the applicant?
[8:21:15] Okay.
[8:21:16] We're going to move on to public input.
[8:21:17] Thank you.
[8:21:18] Yep.
[8:21:18] Thank you, sir.
[8:21:19] anybody from the public wishing to speak on the side of please come forward state
[8:21:22] your name for the record you'll have five minutes.
[8:21:28] Good evening. Good evening.
[8:21:30] Andrew Dorensio 242420. I'm a resident in Pirate Harbor and I see all the
[8:21:41] building and everything going on because it's seven miles for me to get from where I live
[8:21:48] to the public so on the corner. Now I know that there's going to be a public going in around
[8:21:53] heritage landing from my understanding. This particular parcel would be great because what do we do
[8:22:03] for medical, a medical center would be nice, or a doctor's kind of air, you know, someplace where
[8:22:12] All these people that are moving can have access to medical of some sort, retail, restaurants.
[8:22:20] I mean, the parcel lends itself to these kinds of things.
[8:22:30] So when I look at this space and I see everything that's going on and all the construction
[8:22:37] and all the housing, and you just approved another housing development.
[8:22:43] I think that this particular parcel would be really conducive to other commercial types of things.
[8:22:54] Thank you.
[8:22:55] Thank you for your comments, ma'am.
[8:22:57] Anybody else want to speak on this side?
[8:22:58] Please come forward.
[8:22:59] State your name for the record.
[8:23:00] You'll have five minutes.
[8:23:04] Aye, it's me again.
[8:23:06] Good evening, doctor.
[8:23:07] I actually drew this straw to speak the most at Indy Rate.
[8:23:14] Again, on behalf of the Bernster Accord or Coalition,
[8:23:20] I'm not going to read my whole entire
[8:23:23] statement.
[8:23:25] I'm just going to read the bottom half of it.
[8:23:27] I do apologize by the way.
[8:23:29] Something happened with my printer or whatever, and so the first page turns out to be what
[8:23:35] draft copy of the first aid was going to be so it's crossed out.
[8:23:42] So I hope you don't mind, sorry about that.
[8:23:46] Anyhow, we really believe that this project should be viewed in the proper context.
[8:23:53] Any future development on this property will be required to undergo additional levels
[8:24:00] of county review. During the preliminary development planning process, specific issues will be
[8:24:07] evaluated and the county will determine what traffic improvements and safety enhancements
[8:24:13] are necessary, including turn lanes, signalization, access management, or other roadway modifications.
[8:24:22] These requirements will be imposed before development is permitted.
[8:24:28] Furthermore, the entire 40 acre site will not be developed simultaneously.
[8:24:35] Development will occur incrementally over a period of years, allowing infrastructure improvements
[8:24:42] to occur concurrently. By the time substantial portions of the property are developed,
[8:24:48] Brune Store Road is expected to have been widened to six lanes, believe it or not.
[8:24:56] This would.
[8:24:58] The fishers have also.
[8:25:00] Repeatedly affirmed, there are commitment to working collaboratively with nearby residents and county staff to address community concerns, including landscaping, buffering, commercial vehicle access, architectural compatibility, and other site-designed considerations.
[8:25:20] As with all development, they will also coordinate with the county's water and wastewater
[8:25:27] utility providers to ensure that adequate infrastructure is available.
[8:25:32] For these reasons, the Berseric Order Coalition believes this rezoning request represents
[8:25:38] a logical and appropriate implementation of the commercial, sorry commercial, future
[8:25:46] land use designation previously approved by this board.
[8:25:52] The application provides the opportunity to bring much needed commercial services closer
[8:25:58] to area of residencies while ensuring that future development remains subject to comprehensive
[8:26:08] county review and oversight and you know the two commercial properties that team before
[8:26:15] today are not incompatible with each other.
[8:26:19] You know, we see one probably being a midi,
[8:26:25] not necessarily a larger scope, but a different scope.
[8:26:30] Maybe my more regional scope.
[8:26:32] We see this one being more neighborhood focused,
[8:26:36] and we certainly hope that both of these facilities
[8:26:42] will engage, hope that's that rain. We'll engage,
[8:26:50] walk in clinic or urgent care of some sort
[8:26:53] because as the previous speaker said, that is absolutely a necessity for our area that cannot
[8:27:01] be emphasized more. Thank you very much for your time. I know it's very late and everyone is tired
[8:27:08] listening to everybody else. So have a pleasant evening all. That wasn't rain you heard
[8:27:14] that was my stomach. Anybody else wishing to speak on this item please come forward
[8:27:19] station. A for the record you'll have five minutes.
[8:27:27] I'll thank the pan right out of the
[8:27:28] ink.
[8:27:32] There's a hand out for that.
[8:27:35] Bill of Smallwood, 2 4 3 6 8, Treasure Island Boulevard.
[8:27:42] I've watched this morning's meeting.
[8:27:43] I feel like I've been here since night.
[8:27:45] I did not, I was not here in the audience, but I was watching.
[8:27:49] Also I remember watching the one where the heated discussion was pretty much about the commercial
[8:28:00] property that was all sold to the county for the retention bonds with them to items alone.
[8:28:10] There is no way that you cannot vote to get to let this be commercial. It's still got to
[8:28:19] come before you with a plan, does it design? So we understand that staff takes the most elaborate
[8:28:28] amount of traffic that could be used to get into that 629,000 square foot, which means
[8:28:38] they're their figure and it could be six McDonald's and four armies, you know. So when
[8:28:44] they're using them figures, it's not going to end up being something like that. It's not
[8:28:49] going to be a high traffic like that. So you have to go ahead and let it be commercial general.
[8:28:57] Thank you for your time and I'm ready to go home, too.
[8:29:01] Thank you, sir.
[8:29:01] Thank you for your comments.
[8:29:02] Anybody else from the public question to speak?
[8:29:03] Please come forward.
[8:29:04] Station A for the record.
[8:29:05] You'll have five minutes.
[8:29:07] This will be quick.
[8:29:08] I promise.
[8:29:08] It's Sally Wells, 1995 in Bernstein Village.
[8:29:12] I read this morning that in the Metro for casting model
[8:29:15] dated July 2026, that a pause could help cut a necessary
[8:29:19] traffic shifts northbound.
[8:29:21] So it sounds to me like it could help subtract some traffic
[8:29:24] instead of add to the traffic.
[8:29:26] That is the only thing that I have for you.
[8:29:28] So thank you very much, gentlemen.
[8:29:30] Thank you for your comments.
[8:29:31] Anybody else from the public question,
[8:29:32] please come forward.
[8:29:34] Last call.
[8:29:35] Mr. Chairman, I see no one else rising.
[8:29:36] Move the closed public in the day.
[8:29:37] Good motion.
[8:29:38] Second, the closed public input is ready for the discussion.
[8:29:40] Did you want to get up, sir?
[8:29:41] Yep, I'm sorry.
[8:29:42] No, no, no.
[8:29:42] We didn't close it yet.
[8:29:44] I think I would draw my motion.
[8:29:46] My second was wrong.
[8:29:47] We didn't pop up fast enough.
[8:29:50] My name is Don Johnson.
[8:29:51] I'm President, Pirate Harbor since 2007, and I've known this.
[8:30:00] This applicant, the family, since I've lived in pirate harbour, they're honorable people, they're
[8:30:11] civic-minded.
[8:30:17] Laura has headed up our POA, she's dropped and passed the baton, but for several
[8:30:25] years has rallied the whole community that we live in together.
[8:30:33] It's not a mandatory POA, and you can imagine just the connotation of a POA is not
[8:30:40] liked by it a lot, but able to rally the whole community together to come together
[8:30:47] and make improvements, she spearheaded efforts to plant main groves and improve the islands
[8:30:59] that were destroyed in the hurricane,
[8:31:04] spearheaded in the dredging of the channel and
[8:31:08] planning grass beds throughout Charlotte Harbor, Charlotte Harbor, the water area,
[8:31:17] they're
[8:31:18] good people, and this is a project of changing zoning that you all know that we need in the
[8:31:29] area.
[8:31:30] I don't know how much that report cost us to formulate what the growth in the area and what we need,
[8:31:39] but we need commercial areas.
[8:31:44] Once the site plan or development plan is figured out, that's when the impact can be decided,
[8:31:55] and those items can be correct.
[8:31:57] So, I ask you to just use your common sense, and I don't see if the attorney is there anything legally
[8:32:06] that you guys cannot approve this with whatever comments that your staff has made thus far.
[8:32:14] I don't believe there is any legal boundaries of how you vote, and you know that we need this commercial area.
[8:32:26] And I thank you for your time.
[8:32:28] Thank you, sir.
[8:32:29] Thank you, sir.
[8:32:29] Thank you, sir.
[8:32:31] Anybody else wishing to speak?
[8:32:32] Please come forward, Station A for the record.
[8:32:35] Last call.
[8:32:35] Mr. Chairman, move to close the public input.
[8:32:38] Say that.
[8:32:38] We have motion, second, close public input.
[8:32:40] Is there any further discussion?
[8:32:42] Is there any opposition to the motion?
[8:32:43] Public input?
[8:32:44] Is close?
[8:32:44] Commission?
[8:32:44] Concentrate.
[8:32:45] Thank you, sir.
[8:32:48] I'm not Robert Fakery.
[8:32:50] So I don't know the answer to this question.
[8:32:52] But I guess my inquiry would be, you know, we don't just need commercial, we need industrial.
[8:33:00] So it's just curious about, you know, if it's commercial, you can't do auto repair.
[8:33:05] You know, is there, it's just going to throw it out there.
[8:33:08] There probably is a need to have industrial light industrial down there to be able to do those kinds of things.
[8:33:13] So folks can get stuff done locally.
[8:33:15] My question to the applicant though, Jason, is,
[8:33:19] So we got a problem here, if it's between 301 to 629, well then why don't we just say yes, you can have it and we'll limit you to 300,000 square feet of commercial.
[8:33:27] I don't know where that came from. We didn't say that.
[8:33:31] I'm saying.
[8:33:32] Would you agree to be limited to 300,000 square feet of commercial for your 41 acres? If the answer is yes, then I would ask staff, does it meet compliance? Are we okay?
[8:33:43] No, because we already did that with the future land use map amendment, we restricted it from the one FAR that's allowed under your cop plan to point 3-5 as a notation to your future land use map.
[8:33:53] Secondly, you're not required to meet level service now. You're required to level meet level of service when the impact is occurring. We've already provided a TIA that says, we've improved in such a six-laning.
[8:34:03] We meet that. That's what all the traffic studies and all the things you read today say.
[8:34:08] Okay, so we don't explain for 20 or 30 years, then you're not going to be able to do anything.
[8:34:13] We can't develop up up to a point of concurrency that we could meet concurrency or pay for six lanes or pay for additional lanes or what have you current.
[8:34:20] And the difference is which, which, and I'll be honest, it kind of confused me a little bit, your PD's.
[8:34:24] I heard today and I read in staff reports that they're vesting those trips when you approve of those PD's.
[8:34:28] We're not vesting for anything.
[8:34:30] Yeah, you have more control over this site than you do through a PD so I got news for you
[8:34:34] Yes, the way the state's being run. We're going to be broke as it comes to most things and certainly
[8:34:41] Of sat up here in the chairman's position with the MPO and told the Secretary don't plan on
[8:34:49] Spending any more local dollars because I'm not voting for anything locally for any roadway projects for expansion anymore
[8:34:55] It's done. We don't have the money
[8:34:57] so I'm telling you this
[8:35:00] Well, in my lifetime, when I know we're talking about that connector road, all those plans are up in the air now, because we're not going to be able to afford all of that.
[8:35:08] And so, if a lot of this development is predicated on having six leaning and having those other roadways, not going to happen.
[8:35:15] No, it's an exercise to show what would happen if you did do other improvements.
[8:35:19] And when you do the TIAs, you can pick and choose things that might show that, right? So this is a simple way to do to show the six leaning.
[8:35:25] If there is, if you're not doing it, and it doesn't get done, and there's portions that
[8:35:30] we're responsible for, we have to pay for that.
[8:35:33] And there's no vested trips with a rezoning like this.
[8:35:35] So if we come to the table next year or five years, 10 years to develop portions of the
[8:35:40] site, and there's no capacity left, your concurrency management system adopted in your
[8:35:44] land of Elmacoid, say, you can't approve this.
[8:35:47] Right.
[8:35:47] Other people that get to the table first, correct their set, and then you come last, or the people
[8:35:52] that come last, you're going to have a problem.
[8:35:53] But technically the biggest issue you have is all of these vested trips that you keep recognizing
[8:35:57] that they're not even developing.
[8:35:59] It's on paper.
[8:35:59] They're holding the volume on paper.
[8:36:02] We're okay with it.
[8:36:03] We understand that risk.
[8:36:04] Thank you, Chairman.
[8:36:05] Thank you, Chairman.
[8:36:06] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[8:36:08] I agree that we still have control over this to the level of service, and then they would
[8:36:13] have to provide any additional access points or decil lanes or whatever they want to
[8:36:21] to provide at that point in time, or not do anything at all if they have to have six
[8:36:26] lane, and they don't have the money to do it.
[8:36:28] So with that, I'm moving north of the Board of County Commissioners in Charlotte County
[8:36:31] Florida, pursuant section 125.66, for the statute to many of the Charlotte County Zoning
[8:36:35] Atlas, from Residence, we'll state one, our E1, to commercial general CG for property located
[8:36:41] at 1.7150 birth store road in the birth store area, plan area, and in the punt of order area,
[8:36:47] containing 41.31 plus or minus acres, Commission District 2,
[8:36:51] Physician C-23-35-17, applicant, Jackson Fisher LL
[8:36:56] so you're providing effective dates.
[8:36:59] We have motion a second to move the ordinances.
[8:37:02] Is there any further discussion?
[8:37:06] So I remember this when it came before the board last time
[8:37:09] and we were encouraging a plan development
[8:37:11] because what the public was talking about
[8:37:14] were specific uses that you wanted.
[8:37:15] medical and certain things.
[8:37:18] When you do commercial general, which is what the applicant is asking for now, everything that's
[8:37:24] listed under commercial general can go on this property by right.
[8:37:29] So it's no longer what the community wants.
[8:37:32] It's whatever the market says or offers the owners of the property and the owners of the property
[8:37:40] from what I know are not land developers.
[8:37:44] They have other businesses, but they're not developers per se, they happen to own this property.
[8:37:50] So I don't know if they plan on developing it personally themselves as a builder or a developer.
[8:37:57] But I'm just, my caveat is, once this goes to commercial general, that's it.
[8:38:04] They have certain rights that run with the property, they go straight to the building department.
[8:38:09] They don't come back to the board, they go right to the building department.
[8:38:11] So it's whatever it's whatever those people when they make their application as long as it fits does that designation and
[8:38:18] They're concurrent and meet all the other check the boxes. They get their permits
[8:38:23] So I just you know, I wanted to make that clear to the people who want specific uses out there the other thing I found out on this application
[8:38:32] Is it's almost like you gave a recommendation, but with like a caveat
[8:38:36] I don't remember ever seen a recommendation. It sounds like you're you're saying
[8:38:40] that they're consistent with our comp plan and all the other plans, if it's limited to less than 300,000 square feet.
[8:38:49] That would be a process of when the applicant comes in, then you would make that determination on square footage.
[8:38:53] But you put it in here. Was it to condition your recommendation that it's only good for 300,000?
[8:39:00] No, I'm not condition. I just tell you the fact, what did TI's tell me is I tell you?
[8:39:04] Okay. Also the same thing that African said, I don't know what they were put there.
[8:39:09] Yeah. So I only provide a fact.
[8:39:11] No, no. I just don't remember ever seeing a recommendation worded this way. It was almost like,
[8:39:17] you just wanted to make sure we knew as a board in the public new,
[8:39:21] as things stand right now with 48, or you only get 300,000 and 1 square feet.
[8:39:26] Unless you can become, you know, provide a traffic impact statement and provide whatever you need to provide to get more.
[8:39:35] That's the way I understand it. I don't object to having commercial uses there. I just wanted to be clear to the public
[8:39:42] This is not a plan development
[8:39:44] Whatever goes there the market's going to determine and the the owner of the property. That's all. That's all I wanted to get on the record
[8:39:51] Come in. Sure conscious recognized right. Thank you because right if this if we were proving this is a plan development with commercial uses
[8:39:57] They'd have to come back with a site plan
[8:40:00] And with exactly what those uses are, we would have control. But we're just giving CG, we would be giving CG zoning now. And that would be, that's it. That's it. They, you could list off for me the 30 things that would be allowed. And they could do any one of them. I do want to bring up this has whether we had voted yesterday or no on the other one, doesn't impact this. Correct me from wrong. Because that's only 12.55 acres. It sounds like you would allow up to maybe 20 acres or 18 acres of use.
[8:40:30] to get access to the roadway and they wouldn't trip the square-footage problem.
[8:40:35] But because this is 40 acres, now you have such a large area that can be planned out deep into the parcel that's too much traffic trying to get out onto the road from all of those uses.
[8:40:46] So if it were 10 or 20 acres, maybe 18, whatever in that sweet zone, you're okay.
[8:40:51] But because it's so big, you have concerns about if they max it out.
[8:40:56] And what, let me ask you this, if they started in and said we'll be going to put these three restaurants or whatever these facilities and we get, we're getting up to that maximum if they came back and said now we want to permit these other things you would say sorry you can't
[8:41:12] Because you have too much in the pipeline trying to get on the road so now you're limited is that what would happen?
[8:41:18] Now, if you approve the CG Resonance, so they can tomorrow, I just say, they can come for the site-print review to propose their development.
[8:41:29] And then, obviously, we'll provide TIS based on the what actually development, they'll provide the TIS.
[8:41:35] But I'm saying, could they come in, you know, in a couple of months and say, you know, we've decided we want to go to 690,000 square feet of commercial. You would have to grant that for them?
[8:41:45] they need to provide the TIS traffic impact statements and it's a staff review they will not bring back to them
[8:41:52] and if staff doesn't agree with it then it's not going to go forward
[8:41:55] yes, okay if they came back with 300,000 square feet tomorrow
[8:42:00] would they need to provide a traffic impact? it's the only the project is the only it
[8:42:05] yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a specific issue
[8:42:07] sorry, Mike wouldn't know, can we address an issue? do you mind?
[8:42:11] I mean, if you want more discussion right now, I mean, unless the board wants to hear something from the applicant, I mean, we've closed that.
[8:42:18] I think we're ready to vote for you.
[8:42:21] Okay, so I just also want to say, you know, my comments weren't to impune the integrity of the lot owners, it was just a clarified of the public.
[8:42:30] You know, that that's how it works in real life. That's all. I'm sure that the applicant's going to work with the community to try to get uses in there just like you explained.
[8:42:39] is there any further discussion? Is there any opposition to the motion? That passes unanimously.
[8:42:46] Okay, gentlemen, you know, we did, we missed one comment from the Economic Development
[8:42:50] Director. She's been here all night. Did you have any comments, Ms. Tracy? Unless you were
[8:42:57] here just to experience land use. Thank you, Commissioner.
[8:43:01] Okay, Tracy, Fister, for the record, Economic Development Director. Just wanted to thank
[8:43:06] for your commitment to investing in data-driven information to come back to departments like
[8:43:17] the Economic Development Office. It really helps us drive long-term growth here for our community,
[8:43:23] really helps us to guide us through certain decisions and investments that are coming in
[8:43:30] our office and also I wanted to compliment you and human services and a hack for the Murdoch
[8:43:38] Square that is so needed for our affordable housing and workforce housing efforts.
[8:43:45] It's important to our business community that their employees can have options for them
[8:43:51] to live here and work here too.
[8:43:53] Thank you.
[8:43:53] Thank you.
[8:43:54] Thank you for your comments.
[8:43:54] Any questions for Ms. Tracy?
[8:43:56] Okay, we've completed our journey. This meeting is adjourned.